Getting to the truth about HOT-lane operations
The Georgia Public Policy Foundation, an Atlanta-based free-market think tank, wields a lot of influence with the state’s conservative leadership. The foundation has also been a leading advocate of public and private toll-road projects, including the controversial I-85 HOT-lane conversion.
In an article headlined “State must ensure Georgians warm up to HOT lanes,” GPPF vice president Benita Dodd pleads for patience from commuters and politicians alike, saying it’s much too early to proclaim the I-85 project a failure. In other cities, she points out, it took some time before motorists got used to the idea and began to use HOT lanes regularly.
Her point is valid. When Ga. 400 first opened, Atlanta media outlets, including this newspaper, ran a lot of stories pointing out that very few people were using the highway. That situation changed pretty quickly as commuters changed their travel patterns.
To bolster public patience, Dodd cites the example of State Route 91 in southern California. After HOT lanes opened on that highly congested route, Dodd writes, toll-paying commuters not only saved 30 minutes on a 10-mile trip, “Rush-hour speeds in the regular lanes increased by 17 mph and peak-period congestion in the morning was reduced by over an hour.”
That does sound highly encouraging — a 17-mph increase in the general lanes! Unfortunately, it has not exactly been the experience of commuters in the I-85 corridor, where motorists in the regular lanes complain that commutes have gotten considerably longer. Why has our experience been so different?
Well, here in Georgia, the two new HOT lanes — one in each direction — were carved out of existing interstate, pushing traffic into the remaining lanes. In California, traffic flow improved because four additional travel lanes — two in each direction — were built in the median of SR 91 as HOT lanes. In other words, significant new capacity — not HOT-lane technology — accounted for the improvement cited by Dodd. (By the way, that improvement proved temporary, largely disappearing as additional traffic was drawn by that additional capacity.)
GPPF has also tried to dispel the notion of HOT lanes as “Lexus lanes,” which it defines as “an elitist way to enable wealthier, paying motorists to bypass the congestion that the unwashed masses must endure.” Again citing California’s experience, GPPF claims that HOT-lane users on SR 91 were no different demographically than those using regular lanes.
The Reason Foundation, the libertarian think tank that has championed HOT lanes on the national level, makes similar claims, arguing that “studies of the 91 Express Lanes indicate that use increases slightly with income group.” However, the studies cited by Reason and GPPF directly contradict what they claim.
According to those studies, commuters with incomes above $100,000 were more than twice as likely to use the toll lanes frequently than those making less than $60,000. That is not a “slight increase” among income groups. The studies also found that as fares rose higher and higher, usage by middle-income commuters dropped significantly.
“The significant decline in reported toll lane use by commuters in the $40-60K category suggests that these middle-income commuters have been unusually sensitive to the toll increases, and are less willing to pay tolls despite the worsening traffic congestion in the corridor,” the study concluded.
That trend could be important to travelers in the I-85 corridor as that project matures, usage increases and tolls are raised to fend off congestion. (Today, the highest toll collected on SR 91 is $9.85 for the 10-mile trip, more than double the highest fare of 10 years ago.)
Interestingly, that study, led by Edward Sullivan of Cal Poly State University, also found that SR 91 commuters consistently overestimate how much time they save by using the toll lanes, overshooting the mark by anywhere from five to 30 minutes a trip.
“It suggests that making available accurate data on actual toll lane time savings might result in reduced toll lane use,” the writers warn. In other words, it’s not the deal it may appear to be, although you may already know that.
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383 comments Add your comment
Normal
November 2nd, 2011
7:40 am
Hot lanes…don’t use them and never will…
jm
November 2nd, 2011
7:42 am
On topic – Toll lanes are the future. Like it or not.
off topic (way early)
Democrats criticize Erskine Bowles and don’t like his compromise. Figures.
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1111/67395.html
jm
November 2nd, 2011
7:42 am
Dare I say it? Yes I will….. HOT lanes are sexxxxxxxxy
jm
November 2nd, 2011
7:44 am
Jay doesn’t get math. So what if the wealthy use the lanes more? There aren’t so few of them that they impact the situation very little and the overall demographics are the same as the studies note.
The LANES ARE FOR PEOPLE IN A HURRY. And good thing Atlanta now has them.
jm
November 2nd, 2011
7:45 am
aren’t = are
Normal
November 2nd, 2011
7:46 am
I wonder how they will handle accidents in the hot lanes…shove the wreaks into the nonpaying lanes, probably…
stands for decibels
November 2nd, 2011
7:52 am
that improvement proved temporary, largely disappearing as additional traffic was drawn by that additional capacity
well knock me over with a feather.
stands for decibels
November 2nd, 2011
7:54 am
an Atlanta-based free-market think tank
Historians will refer to these as “domestic terror cells.”
Class of '98
November 2nd, 2011
7:55 am
I’m still trying to figure out how DECREASING traffic in one lane is supposed to also decrease the traffic in the other lanes.
It makes absolutely no sense.
jm
November 2nd, 2011
7:57 am
“It makes absolutely no sense.” To you. Cause you’re not a traffic engineer.
Paul
November 2nd, 2011
7:58 am
Jay, what’s the matter with you?!!?
“The Reason Foundation, the libertarian think tank that has championed HOT lanes on the national level, makes similar claims, arguing that “studies of the 91 Express Lanes indicate that use increases slightly with income group.” However, the studies cited by Reason and GPPF directly contradict what they claim.”
Don’t you know you’re not supposed to actually read cited references and see if they were accurately quoted?!!? You cite a study to bolster your case and that’s where it’s supposed to stop!
Jeff H.
November 2nd, 2011
7:58 am
stupid idea and I won’t use it. I already paid for the damn road.
JohnnyReb
November 2nd, 2011
7:59 am
Cal lets all drivers use the freeway exits while in ATL the HOV exits set unused contributing to the backup elsewhere. A perfect example of not having to look too far to see how GA traffice engineers/government screws things up. They set out, like Progressives, with good intentions but seldom take into account the likely collateral damage. The results is puishing traffic right causing more congestion and a popluous asking what the hell are they doing?
jm
November 2nd, 2011
8:01 am
Equally important news……
Bug Battle: An Invasive Plant Now Faces Its Own Attacker
Insects From Asia Munch on Kudzu, a Vine That Has Grown on Some
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203791904576611721227144948.html?mod=WSJ_hpp_RIGHTTopCarousel_1
AmVet - Read my lips. No new hidden taxes.
November 2nd, 2011
8:03 am
Re, that 7:44,
Certainly not Republican math.
Nobody outside of the fringe does.
Hot lanes are just the latest travesty foisted on Georgians by the bumbling, corrupt men in charge of our state.
I hate if for the working class stiffs who commute and are stuck in that abysmal traffic for weeks out of the year.
But I love that I very, very seldom go to that wasteland called Gwinnett county…
Armed Liberal
November 2nd, 2011
8:04 am
Someone’s gonna make millions if they can make an aftermarket add-on that’ll obscure liscence plates at the touch of a button.
Paul
November 2nd, 2011
8:05 am
jm
“Cause you’re not a traffic engineer.”
Okay, then please explain how decreasing traffic in one lane decreases traffic in the other lanes.
Jay
November 2nd, 2011
8:06 am
jm, you claim the overall demographics are the same.
Can you document that claim, as I have documented mine? Because every study I’ve seen says you’re just making stuff up again.
And for the record, I have not seen a traffic engineer make the claim that HOT lanes will ease traffic on general-purpose lanes.. I’ve talked to a couple on this topic, and they are very careful NOT to make such a claim. Unless, as jm comes close to implying, HE is a traffic engineer as well as an economics expert.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
November 2nd, 2011
8:11 am
What? Some is mischaracterizing the results of studies and the actual information to say that apples = oranges. Shocking. But I always enjoy how when the righties relunctantly hint that perhaps, just perhaps, they may have made an error it is always something like “Bush spending like a drunken liberal” or “set out, like Progressives, with good intentions”. Oh Fox and the RNC has trained you well. Never admit a mistake without bringing in the other side to make it seem like they are worse.
Need other examples:
Hot lanes are an idea dumber than Michelle Bachmann at a history lesson
The tolls change faster than Cain’s story about sexually harrassing employees
Fiscally Con and Proud of it
November 2nd, 2011
8:11 am
Jay 8:06 unless you think GPPF is lying
“Again citing California’s experience, GPPF claims that HOT-lane users on SR 91 were no different demographically than those using regular lanes.”
Is that what you’re saying, they’re lying?
Jm
November 2nd, 2011
8:13 am
Oh, and Jay, I’ve repeatedly said I’m not a traffic engineer.
But I understand the logic of those who point out it will not significantly slow down the other lanes.
Brosephus
November 2nd, 2011
8:15 am
Any and all taxpayers who have to pay an additional toll to drive on roads they’ve already paid for with taxes should respond by voting out every jackass that cosigned to that dumbass idea. Had they decided to build new lanes as HOT lanes, that would have been different. However, I think it’s the epitome of jackassery to take something that’s already paid for and charge taxpayers even more to use it. Not to mention, the tolls will not generate enough for the maintenance and upkeep, therefore the drivers will still have to pay taxes to use those roads.
Jay
November 2nd, 2011
8:17 am
Yes, jm. I’m saying they got it wrong.
I asked them which studies they based that claim upon, I read those studies, and I found that the studies report the exact opposite of what GPPF and Reason claimed.
I include the actual study findings in the blog post above.
In an email yesterday, Robert Poole — the top guy at Reason on HOT lanes and the person often credited with their creation — acknowledged the error, saying that if he had edited the Reason documents that claim about a “slight” increase as income rises would not have been included.
godless heathen
November 2nd, 2011
8:18 am
“According to those studies, commuters with incomes above $100,000 were more than twice as likely to use the toll lanes frequently than those making less than $60,000.”
That’s good isn’t it?? Tax increase on the wealthy and all that.
I can’t wait to get up that way and go zooming by the poor peons stuck in the welfare lanes.
TaxPayer
November 2nd, 2011
8:18 am
Georgia just skipped over that capacity increase thingie because they determined from those studies that if they built it, they would come.
Anyway, someone is benefitting from those HOT lanes and perhaps one day we will be privy to that information. Follow the money. It could be in the studies or in the new technology or on four wheels…
Mr Sunshine
November 2nd, 2011
8:18 am
My taxes are already paying for these. I will not use them. Lying politicians.
Jm
November 2nd, 2011
8:19 am
This whole comment in quotes below is a canard. No one has ever claimed, as Jay, points out, that it will make the other lanes faster. The argument is that won’t significantly cause a negative impact in the long run. But Jay doesn’t argue with his supporters. Gotta keep the cheerleading squad happy.
“Class of ‘98
November 2nd, 2011
7:55 am
I’m still trying to figure out how DECREASING traffic in one lane is supposed to also decrease the traffic in the other lanes.
It makes absolutely no sense.”
Paul
November 2nd, 2011
8:22 am
godless
I think you may be on to something. Superduper rich in Georgia need more tax breaks so they’ll have more money to use HOT lanes. This will, in turn, result in creating more jobs for the people who advocate, design, build and maintain HOT lanes.
TaxPayer
November 2nd, 2011
8:23 am
HOT lanes “work” on the masses by forcing them to shift the time that they attempt to gain passage to a less congested time.
AmVet - Read my lips. No new hidden taxes.
November 2nd, 2011
8:24 am
I knew it was just a matter of time before one of the right wingers posted, “I’m rich, so it’s no problem for me!”
Paul and I have laughed over the fact that that is one of the great beauties of a virtual persona; you can be anybody you want.
Even if it is not remotely based on reality…
Jm
November 2nd, 2011
8:24 am
Jay. I’ve tangled with Robert Poole over his mass transit studies. I don’t think he’s too bright.
Fine. If they do turn into “Lexus lanes”, let’s just make all lanes toll lanes because we have to pay for roads and the gas tax revenue will eventually go away.
Back to my original point. Tolls are the future, like it or not.
godless heathen
November 2nd, 2011
8:25 am
They’re shovel-ready, Paul.
Paul
November 2nd, 2011
8:27 am
Jm
“I don’t think he’s too bright.”
Because?
James Kirk
November 2nd, 2011
8:27 am
Our taxes paid for the highways once. This is robbery.
Brosephus
November 2nd, 2011
8:28 am
let’s just make all lanes toll lanes because we have to pay for roads and the gas tax revenue will eventually go away.
As long as politicians continue to be less than truthful and keep playing with the gas tax rates, the revenue will do as you say. We need honest politicians who will put the real and full price on taxes for services instead of trying to keep cutting them. If people knew the actual cost to do things, maybe they would change habits to lessen the needs for those services. As long as you keep providing 5-star services and charge dollar tree prices, habits will never change.
Jm
November 2nd, 2011
8:28 am
He’ll. The Obama FDOT is looking at tolling the whole national interstate system. Fact.
Guess we’ve found another point of disagreement between Jay and Obama.
Normal
November 2nd, 2011
8:28 am
“Back to my original point. Tolls are the future, like it or not.”
May as well have the State build toll booths at the end of your driveway…exact change only, of course…
Jay
November 2nd, 2011
8:28 am
Well, isn’t it interesting how these goalposts get moved? Is there a special HOT lane to allow certain people to do it more quickly?
jm has gone from claiming that traffic engineers understand how decreasing traffic in one lane will decrease traffic in other lanes (7:57) to now pretending that no one would ever make such a silly statement (8:19).
No wonder he’s a Romney backer.
Ayn Rand's Medicare
November 2nd, 2011
8:30 am
I’m not a traffic engineer, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express
Let Them Eat Cake
It is now the Con campaign slogan, and it fits on a bumpersticker
win-win
md
November 2nd, 2011
8:30 am
Well……in all my years in the Atl, when they have “built it, they have come”.
Costner would be proud. And I seriously doubt anything will change the situation anytime soon.
Jm
November 2nd, 2011
8:31 am
Paul 8:27
Because he doesn’t get the fact that we’ve generally maxed out our right of way and therefore mass transit investment does make some sense in the long run
Jim163
November 2nd, 2011
8:32 am
Another good read this morning, It appears Professor Curry from Ga. Tech is not to pleased with her team member Professor Muller…
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2055191/Scientists-said-climate-change-sceptics-proved-wrong-accused-hiding-truth-colleague.html
Adam
November 2nd, 2011
8:32 am
The Georgia Public Policy Foundation, an Atlanta-based free-market think tank…
The Apostle….
Rob
November 2nd, 2011
8:33 am
Jay,
Be careful not to fall in this trap.
“(By the way, that improvement proved temporary, largely disappearing as additional traffic was drawn by that additional capacity.)”
What you’re not seeing is where that additional traffic was coming from.
Would that capacity improvement keep more vehicles on our interstate system and off the already congested arterials and collectors?
Would that capacity improvement allow for vehicles to leave 15 min earlier? Even if your interstate is at capacity, the network can benefit if it’s jammed for only 90 minutes instead of 120 minutes.
Jm
November 2nd, 2011
8:33 am
Jay “jm has gone to claiming that traffic engineers understand how decreasing traffic in one lane will decrease traffic in other lanes”
Logic not your forte? I never claimed that. I gave a flippant response to class of 98’s absurd or I’ll informed post. I never claimed what you say I claimed.
Dear Jay is just lost…..
Adam
November 2nd, 2011
8:35 am
jm: “It makes absolutely no sense.” To you. Cause you’re not a traffic engineer.
And of course it makes PERFECT sense to YOU because you ARE a traffic engineer, right?
jm is just too smart for the rest of us! Now it all makes sense! He knows EVERYTHING better than the rest of us. We’re just too stupid to realize it
Butch Cassidy
November 2nd, 2011
8:35 am
So if a Republican complains about the HOT lanes because they are “Lexus Lanes”, and only allow faster commutes for the rich, does that constitute “Wealth Envy” ?
Bud Wiser
November 2nd, 2011
8:36 am
Toll roads.
Another tax on property already paid for by taxes, meaning taxpayers.
Adam
November 2nd, 2011
8:37 am
Paul: Don’t you know you’re not supposed to actually read cited references and see if they were accurately quoted?!!? You cite a study to bolster your case and that’s where it’s supposed to stop!
I always wondered where the conservative bloggers got this tendency. Dave R used to do it all the time and some people here still do it:
“You want proof! Here! This is the first or second article that came up when I googled a phrase! I didn’t read it but surely it backs up my point…. It’s more important to rebut you quickly than it is to be correct!”
TaxPayer
November 2nd, 2011
8:37 am
Well……in all my years in the Atl, when they have “built it, they have come”.
Darned McDonalds. They’re everywhere, I tells ya.
USinUK
November 2nd, 2011
8:38 am
jm – 7:42 – is that like sex trafficking?
Jm
November 2nd, 2011
8:38 am
Jays complaints are the same tired complaints of those that always react poorly to change. Whether for better or ill.
Some people just always whine about progress. Clearly Jay is one of them.
carlosgvv
November 2nd, 2011
8:40 am
The state’s conservative leadership are the ones responsible for the HOT lanes. It’s becoming increasing clear that they really are “Lexus lanes” and were intended to be that from the start. I guess the real question is how many “compassionate conservatives” in Georgia will be able or willing to admit this. My guess – few and none.
Adam
November 2nd, 2011
8:40 am
Jay: In an email yesterday, Robert Poole — the top guy at Reason on HOT lanes and the person often credited with their creation — acknowledged the error, saying that if he had edited the Reason documents that claim about a “slight” increase as income rises would not have been included.
I don’t suppose they corrected themselves on that?
Jm
November 2nd, 2011
8:41 am
Usinuk 8:38
Good one
Butch Cassidy
November 2nd, 2011
8:41 am
Hey all you Rightwingers in Gwinnett, stop complaining about having to sit in traffic because the tolls are to expensive in the HOT lanes. Pull yourselves up by your bootstraps and get a better job that will pay you more so you too can use the HOT Lanes. Stop hating those that can afford it, punishing success won’t help your commute one bit!
Tommy Maddox
November 2nd, 2011
8:41 am
A couple of weeks ago, I took a moment to write to Gov. Deal and asked that the folks who came up with the idea of the I-85 HOT lanes be removed from office and publicly flogged. No response yet.
Adam
November 2nd, 2011
8:41 am
jm: He’ll. The Obama FDOT is looking at tolling the whole national interstate system. Fact.
This statement is evidence that just because you put the word “Fact” in your argument, doesn’t mean you have stated a fact.
lulu
November 2nd, 2011
8:42 am
Aren’t the HOT lanes doing exactly what they were designed to do? I definitely recall hearing everything that is happening now discussed when the HOT lanes were proposed.
Of course, if you hate the HOT lanes or have an awful commute, you could always save lots of time, money, fuel, and frustration by living closer to your job …
USinUK
November 2nd, 2011
8:42 am
Butch – are you saying they have … LANE ENVY???
Jay
November 2nd, 2011
8:42 am
Rob, I actually think the SR 91 project is the best possible use of HOT-lane technology. The four-lane facility was built on the median of SR 91, which makes a lot more sense than converting existing lanes. It was built in one of the most highly congested corridors on the country, which ensured it would be used. It was funded entirely through tolls charged to HOT-lane users, rather than diverting taxpayer resources to the project.
But here in Georgia we’re taking a “cool” philosophy that works in very limited applications elsewhere and trying to apply it throughout the interstate system. It tells you something when SR 91 is generating more than enough money to pay for everything — from construction of the lanes to operation and maintenance — but the project on I-85 won’t even pay for the cost of adding the technology needed to convert.
Aquagirl
November 2nd, 2011
8:42 am
It appears Professor Curry from Ga. Tech is not to pleased
No kidding, her sour puss would scare the paint off a building. You really need a warning with that link.
stands for decibels
November 2nd, 2011
8:42 am
So if a Republican complains about the HOT lanes because they are “Lexus Lanes”, and only allow faster commutes for the rich, does that constitute “Wealth Envy” ?
Butch, Butch, Butch.
It’s not wealth envy when they do it.
Nor is it reliance on Big Government when they do it (re-criminalizing abortion).
Nor is it Judicial Activism when they do it (pretty much anything out of the fetid Roberts court, but most notoriously Citizens United and DC v. Heller).
Nor is it Social Engineering when they do it (vouchers for radical-right religious schools).
USinUK
November 2nd, 2011
8:43 am
Adam – 8:41 – and CONSIDERING something /= IMPLEMENTING something
FACT
Butch Cassidy
November 2nd, 2011
8:44 am
USinUK – “Butch – are you saying they have … LANE ENVY???”
USinUK
November 2nd, 2011
8:44 am
dB – and don’t forget it’s not nation-building when they do it (the Iraq chaos)
Adam
November 2nd, 2011
8:44 am
“Punishing success” is a phrase used by those who want to divert attention away from the fact that they want to punish the poor simply for being poor.
TaxPayer
November 2nd, 2011
8:45 am
Off topic.
As evidenced by these outstanding natives, we has us some eggs here in Georgia that shoulda never hatched yet the conned will continue to fight against abortion.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
November 2nd, 2011
8:45 am
Butch, you forgot….”If you are stuck in traffic, its your own fault.”
USinUK
November 2nd, 2011
8:45 am
Keep up – well, it WAS your decision to buy a car
Jay
November 2nd, 2011
8:45 am
jm, I included the times at which you made those comments so readers can decide for themselves — if they’re really really bored — the context in which they were written and judge accordingly.
Adam
November 2nd, 2011
8:47 am
Keep: No, it’s “If you are stuck in traffic, BLAME YO’SELF!”
md
November 2nd, 2011
8:47 am
“It appears Professor Curry from Ga. Tech is not to pleased”
Jim…..no need to post links, the “scientists” on here have already made up their minds………..
USinUK
November 2nd, 2011
8:47 am
“The men are Frederick Thomas, 73; Dan Roberts, 67; Ray H. Adams, 65; and Samuel J. Crump, 68. Thomas is from Cleveland, Georgia, and the other three men are from Toccoa.”
Taxpayer –
don’t they mean Fredrick al Thomas and Dan Mahmoud Roberts and does the H in Ray Adam’s name stand for Hussein???
I mean, only Muslems are terraists …
Adam
November 2nd, 2011
8:48 am
TaxPayer: Careful, let’s not get into eugenics.
md
November 2nd, 2011
8:49 am
“well, it WAS your decision to buy a car”
And live in Atlanta………or anywhere else there is gobs of traffic.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
November 2nd, 2011
8:49 am
USinUK….It’s all about choices. I made the choice not to be born in a rich family and to work all my life.
dbw
November 2nd, 2011
8:49 am
This construction should have required an environmental impact study. The increased congestion has obviously increased the amount of pollution along the HOT corridor and also alternate routes of travel. Any study that is related to the congestion on the HOT corridor should also include the additional traffic on the alternate routes, such as PIB, Buford Hwy, ect.
Felton McMichael
November 2nd, 2011
8:50 am
To everyone who’s whining about the HOT lanes, what are your ideas for fixing ATL traffic? Better mass transit? Great, so we can expect a Yes vote on the TSPLOST from you all, right? More roads? Awesome, so you’ll be ok when the gas tax is raised (which it hasn’t been since the early 90s) to pay for them? What’s that you say? You want a faster commute but don’t want to pay for it? Sorry that option doesn’t exist. So keep moaning about how you’ve already paid for the roads and would never use those HOT lanes. Meanwhile the rest of us who value our time will pay the $2 to get home (or out of town, or to a ballgame, or a doctor’s appointment) 30 minutes sooner and get on with enjoying our life.
Butch Cassidy
November 2nd, 2011
8:50 am
Keep – “Butch, you forgot….”If you are stuck in traffic, its your own fault.”
Exactly. Apparently in the Georgia GOP mind, if something adversely affects me, it’s an injustice and must be dealt with so that the palying field is level and everyone has a fair chance.
If something doesn’t adversely affect me, then it’s the fault of the people who are affected, and they need to take responsibiltiy for themselves, stop complaining, and live with the consequences of their poor choices.
Blah, Blah, Blah………….
michael
November 2nd, 2011
8:50 am
I like the HOT lanes. I don’t live in Atlanta. I go through about once or twice a month. It is a great way to bypass all the traffic. Since I only use it at most 3 times a month I love it. I am more than willing to pay a few bucks to get through traffic. I just feel sorry for the people who have to do it every day.
USinUK
November 2nd, 2011
8:51 am
Keep – I was born into a rich family (I’m just sure of it), but elected to be adopted by an engineer and an RN to teach me a good work ethic
md – exactly! you don’t want to drive? move to Manhattan
Common Sense
November 2nd, 2011
8:52 am
So if the demographics were equal between the HOT and free lanes there would be no problem?
More wealth envy?
The more wealthy you are the more likely you are to fly when you take that trip. Federal Government has subsidized air travel in this nation for generations.
Focus on that, rather than a short stretch of freeway on one side of Atlanta.
Or book a therapist to get at the root of your wealth envy issues.
1811/0311
November 2nd, 2011
8:52 am
Maybe Robin Hood and his “Merry Men” could do something about this ???
Jm
November 2nd, 2011
8:53 am
Felton
Amen
I don’t use toll lanes often, but I certainly don’t begrudge those who do
godless heathen
November 2nd, 2011
8:53 am
Jim163: Very interesting read. Dr. Muller (never a global warming skeptic) seems is being less than honest. I’ll go with a Ga. Tech prof over a Berkely one any day.
Butch Cassidy
November 2nd, 2011
8:54 am
USinUK – “you don’t want to drive? move to Manhattan”
Hey, I live in Manhattan. Maybe I can introduce HOT lanes for flagging cabs. For a fee, you get the lane closest to traffic, that way you have better access to the taxi. All others will have to stand on the curb and hope to be seen.
1811/0311
November 2nd, 2011
8:54 am
“OCCUT*RD” update:
“Occupy Wall Street protesters are flocking to nearby health clinics for STD and HIV testing after getting their freak on in ’60s-style hookups with crusty strangers, sources told The Post yesterday.
“Last week was free love,” said a medical professional at a clinic located a short walk from Zuccotti Park, referring to the number of people who organizers have referred for sexually transmitted disease testing.
A volunteer at the park admitted concern among protesters about STDs.”
RB from Gwinnett
November 2nd, 2011
8:54 am
Whoever couldn’t figure out the difference in adding 2 additional lanes vs. converting an existing lane should be relieved of their duties IMMEDIATLY!! And I’d still like someone at the DOT to tell us exactly what the purpose of this project was. How are we supposed to judge the result if we don’t know what the goal was????
And these are the same morons who claimed they did a great job at snow removal last winter…..
Grits
November 2nd, 2011
8:55 am
GPPF HOT lanes are not to benefit the public. They are to squeeze more money out of the public.
Adam
November 2nd, 2011
8:55 am
It’s all about choices: I made the choice to be hired by a company that hasn’t set up shop walking distance from my suburban home.
Jm
November 2nd, 2011
8:55 am
Adam. For your own edification, go to
http://Www.etc.dot.gov
Ayn Rand's Medicare
November 2nd, 2011
8:56 am
Most people know why the Ga Republicans want the HOT lanes
Most people know why the Ga Republicans want all these”Voter ID” laws
Most people know why the Ga Republicans want to cut UE benefits
after the Ga Republicans blew the reserve.
Cons have to lie & deceive to sneak their aims past, for short term advantage. But like one of our Nobel Prize winning Georgians said, “There’s always a reckoning”.
dekalbcountyga
November 2nd, 2011
8:56 am
HOT lanes are awesome. They allow the most productive people be even more productive at the expense of the least productive people. This is simply very good for the economy.
JDW
November 2nd, 2011
8:57 am
@Kyle…”Well, here in Georgia, the two new HOT lanes — one in each direction — were carved out of existing interstate, pushing traffic into the remaining lanes. In California, traffic flow improved because four additional travel lanes — two in each direction — were built in the median of SR 91 as HOT lanes. In other words, significant new capacity — not HOT-lane technology — accounted for the improvement cited by Dodd.”
DUH, I think you got it…wonder how our esteemed Legislators missed that little nuance?
Jm
November 2nd, 2011
8:57 am
Oh. And Adam, go to FAQ’s which refutes most of Jays points.
Adam
November 2nd, 2011
8:57 am
Scout: OH NO! Some people in the Occupy movement are *GASP* HAVING SEX!
And they decided to be responsible and get tested for STDs!
FOR SHAME! Don’t they know they should have stayed at home and been abstinent their entire lives?!?! Maybe that should be a question on a job application! If you have ever had sex before, you won’t be hired.
md
November 2nd, 2011
8:57 am
“I made the choice to be hired by a company that hasn’t set up shop walking distance from my suburban home.”
Then move…………
kayaker 71
November 2nd, 2011
8:57 am
Taxpayer, 8:45
Maybe those disturbed cons can get a job recommendation from Bill and Bernadine to teach at the Univ of Chicago. They ought to fit right in.
Felton McMichael
November 2nd, 2011
8:57 am
@ Butch Cassidy 8:41 — Ha! So true. I’m guessing, based on the voting habits of those who live out in Gwinnett, that the same people who are wailing about how unfair the HOT lanes are, are the same ones who will vote against any form of tax increase to alleviate traffic. I had the opportunity to use the HOT lane last Friday at rush hour and it was amusing to count the number of anti-Obama, pro-tea party bumber stickers stuck in the regular lanes. If the free-market is good enough for healthcare according to these folks, why not the roads? Put your money where mouth is.
Paul
November 2nd, 2011
8:58 am
“elected to be adopted by an engineer”
Whew! You lucked out, USinUK. I understand that could have been genetic….
Derek
November 2nd, 2011
8:58 am
We’re all idiots, roads are already paid for by gas taxes, when tolls are enacted, ie GA 400, they never go away as promised, same for taxes. enforcing slower traffic and trucks stay right will work miracles
JDW
November 2nd, 2011
8:58 am
OPPS sorry Jay…you aren’t Kyle
markey mark
November 2nd, 2011
8:58 am
I’m with Jeff H…..my taxes already paid for the damn lanes, how dare they attempt to charge me again? At least now I live up 75….when they do those hot lanes (by the way, I disagree with the concept) they are at least adding lanes, last I heard. But as someone who wants govt to get OUT of many things, this is one of those things I want govt to pay for. This is the type of project I do not believe should be built and run privately. Does this mean the contract will prevent 41 from ever being worked on because it is in “competition” with I-75? Thats the way I read it…..pure rediculousness. In 20 years, when the toll road owners want to triple fees, the populace will howl for a buyout. And then the *&^&*% roads will cost us more to take back over than it would have to build them in the first place…..
loy
November 2nd, 2011
8:59 am
You don’t need to be a traffic engineer to have traffic move smoothl Dont try an fix something that was not broken. Ask truck drivers how many curves they run up on making at turn. No ask the engineer.
DebbieDoRight
November 2nd, 2011
8:59 am
Hot Lanes? Hot damn!
Nothing else to say since I never use them. Sorry.
stands for decibels
November 2nd, 2011
8:59 am
HOT lanes are great!
…if you’re a spineless politician too chicken to raise your constituents’ fuel taxes to what they ought to be.
(which is another way of typing “Like Brosephus said @ 8.15″, more or less.)
Rabbit
November 2nd, 2011
8:59 am
More lanes = more traffic. The agonizing truth is the people in charge know this. Their interest is in diverting money to special interests through ridiculous privatization of government.
If the backward MARTA decision by Gwinnett and Cobb in the 70s had been different, Atlanta would be one of the most vibrant cities in the world — rather than a region facing the harshest reality of declining property values and persistent joblessness.
But the donors are doing fine.
USinUK
November 2nd, 2011
9:00 am
well, we know what kind of Envy Scout is having with his 8:54
Felton McMichael
November 2nd, 2011
9:00 am
@ Grits 8:55 – nope they didn’t “squeeze” money out of me. i chose to give the tolling authority a modest amount of my money and in return I was able to get to my destination 30 minutes faster.
USinUK
November 2nd, 2011
9:01 am
Paul – 8:58 – anyone who has ever watched me play Tiki Tower on my iPhone would know that NONE of my dad’s engineering skills have rubbed off on me.
NONE.
USinUK
November 2nd, 2011
9:02 am
Rabbit – 8:59 – TESTIFY!
stands for decibels
November 2nd, 2011
9:02 am
Some people in the Occupy movement are *GASP* HAVING SEX!
Sex envy. As is so often the case, I think we’re at the root of right wing anger here.
Shawny
November 2nd, 2011
9:02 am
Without increasing throughput or reducing the number of cars, the overall system traffic will not be better.
Comparisons to systems where lanes were ADDED is not valid.
The HOT lane conversion is a revenue generating scam and nothing more, even by my moderate to conservative math.
MountainMan
November 2nd, 2011
9:03 am
I read that one of the main purposes of this project was to improve the drive time for express buses. If you could cut the time on the bus more people would ride. The HOV-2 lanes became too crowded and the buses were slowed down. It has been proven in other cities that HOV-3 lanes are underutilized. Essentially by converting the HOV-2 to HOV-3 and throwing in a few HOT lane cars you moved the buses at full speed and a few other cars got to use the lanes. It doesn’t take a traffic engineer to realize that if you throw the HOV-2 traffic over into regular lanes that those lanes are going to be slower. The solution is to jump on the bus.
Matt
November 2nd, 2011
9:03 am
The government needs revenue, its that simple. They will get it in the least pollitically destructive manner. Income taxes, like it or not, is the most convenient way to collect taxes. Blame republicans for the “creative solution” of a hot lane. The added travel time means you still pay more in gas whether you use the hot lane or not. And EVERYONE gets to spend more time on surface streets. Has anyone experienced the new nightmare that is Jimmy Carter Blvd at 5pm?
Jay
November 2nd, 2011
9:03 am
Markey Mark writes, regarding privately owned toll roads in Georgia:
In 20 years, when the toll road owners want to triple fees, the populace will howl for a buyout. And then the *&^&*% roads will cost us more to take back over than it would have to build them in the first place…..
That’s exactly the scenario that played out in California. SR 91 was built as a privately funded and operated toll facility, and opened in 1995. The noncompete clause that SR 91 operators negotiated with California allowed them to block construction of additional transportation infrastructure in that corridor. Public outrage at that provision forced local officials to buy out the private operators.
A 10-mile road built for $135 million in 1995 was sold to the public for $207 million in 2003.
DebbieDoRight
November 2nd, 2011
9:03 am
A volunteer at the park admitted concern among protesters about STDs.”
Numbers – Only repubs have STD’s (Stupidity Towards Decision making). Sorry.
Brosephus
November 2nd, 2011
9:04 am
Felton McMichael
I think the HOT lanes are a complete waste of time. The TSPLOST, as currently drawn up, is an equal waste of time. Paving a road in Smyrna and widening a road in Decatur does absolutely nothing for the overall congestion of the Metro Area. If politicians were serious, the most viable option for reducing congestion throughout the entire metro area would be to install heavy rail that’s capable of moving loads of people from the suburbs to the city center at speeds that can compete with driving.
http://www.bombardier.com/en/transportation/products-services/rail-vehicles/metros/new-york-city–usa?docID=0901260d8000f8c8#
Bombardier has developed a train for NYC that maxes out at 66mph. If Atlanta designed a layout that covered the major traffic corridors and extended around 20 miles outside of 285, they could use a heavy rail system to bring commuters in and out of the city and alleviate many of the single car commuters. You could go with one station every 5 miles or so and give counties the option to develop their own bus system to tie into the rail to provide even more flexibility to the system.
All it takes is thinking beyond the soundbite spectrum to come up with serious and viable alternatives.
md
November 2nd, 2011
9:04 am
“Sex envy.”
yeh, std’s are great fun…….everyone should try them at least once in their life…….
Felton McMichael
November 2nd, 2011
9:04 am
@ Derek 8:58 “enforcing slower traffic and trucks stay right will work miracles” – you’re probably right, but how will you enforce this? More troopers? How many more would you have to hire to be “hall monitors” in order for this tactic to be effective? Troopers cost money, and if I understand your objection it’s that you don’t like to pay money for things.
Adam
November 2nd, 2011
9:04 am
Jm: I guess I should have been clear from the beginning that I have nothing to say on the topic of HOT lanes, just on nonsense I see used as evidence. Like claiming people are too stupid to understand because they are not some profession that the person who makes the claim is ALSO not. Or that the choices about cars and living environments mean that you are personally responsible for any local legal and municipal actions.
Stevie Ray
November 2nd, 2011
9:05 am
Yeah, these tolls will help resolve traffic problems…..just like the toll on 400 will be discontinued…
I’ve been in metro area off and on since the 60’s. One only has to look at the most congested areas (for example Perimeter Mall where only the highest density real estate projects are allowed despite no ability to widen roads as a result) to note that this town was never in a position to have meaningful planning until projects such as Northpoint and a few others at least 15-20 miles outside the loop learned in the early 2000’s that such planning was of benefit to future tenants.
Paul
November 2nd, 2011
9:05 am
USinUK 9:01
As I said, you really, really, really, really lucked out!
Peadawg
November 2nd, 2011
9:05 am
“…if you’re a spineless politician too chicken to raise your constituents’ fuel taxes to what they ought to be.” – Gas prices are high enough. Find something else to tax.
godless heathen
November 2nd, 2011
9:06 am
Markey Mark? Isn’t he a rapper?
Corey
November 2nd, 2011
9:06 am
No Jay, jm is your usual, professional, blind party loyalist who will only say its good because Republicans are behind it. Facts, figures and concrete evidence be damned.
Truth Seeker
November 2nd, 2011
9:07 am
Jay,
You forgot to blame George Bush for this problem.
Adam
November 2nd, 2011
9:07 am
md: yeh, std’s are great fun…….everyone should try them at least once in their life…….
Because we all know that everyone who has sex gets STDs, and anyone who goes to get tested will come back with a positive result. Oh, and you wouldn’t bother to get tested if you used protection, because that’s always 100% effective against STDs. No, everyone who went to get tested had reason to believe that they had STDs because they had sex, it was definitely unprotected, etc etc. DIRTY HIPPIES!
OR, you could acknowledge that some people just go get tested because it’s the responsible thing to do whether you are “responsible” in how you have sex or not.
USinUK
November 2nd, 2011
9:08 am
Paul – 9:05 – just don’t ask me to put up shelves for you!
md – 9:04 – not so much the TD part, but the S part, definitely!!
USinUK
November 2nd, 2011
9:09 am
Adam – responsible people don’t have sex.
haven’t you heard?
stands for decibels
November 2nd, 2011
9:10 am
Gas prices are high enough.
They’ll be high enough the day I go to the local supermarket and I don’t see at least two a-holes sitting in their 3-ton SUVs, idling away on a 70-degree day so that they can run their… well, I’m not sure what their climate control is doing. All I know is that we Merkins obviously don’t think gas is really all that expensive, based on what I see people a) driving and b) doing with those things they drive.
Adam
November 2nd, 2011
9:10 am
USinUK: “Damned irresponsible dirty hippies! And they’re trying to steal my cookie! COOKIE ENVY!”
Makes about as much sense as the whining I hear about OWS in general, actually.
DebbieDoRight
November 2nd, 2011
9:11 am
Is that SoCoBro I see lurking around the blogs? Oh my! If I was an envious, evil, dastardly type of person, (which I’ not
); I would say something about how those Bamma Bam people area going to be part of a Creole feast on Saturday.
I’m thinking they’ll create a new dish for their repetoire – Elephant Gumbo, with a side of Elephant tail dirty rice.
Sounds yummy!
Felton McMichael
November 2nd, 2011
9:11 am
@ Brosephus – I’ll concede that the TSPLOST is not the perfect solution to the areas manifold traffic woes, but at least it’s a start to thinking regionally about the issue. I’d absolutely love for the type of transit you describe to come to Atlanta. Every time I visit DC or NYC, I wish that we could have something more than a fraction of what they have when it comes to transit. Heck, I’m even willing to pay (even more than I already do as a resident of DeKalb county) for it!
md
November 2nd, 2011
9:12 am
There you go again Adam………a diatribe coming from your head……..attributed to mine.
Merely stated std’s are great fun…….all that other malarkey is assumption on your part……quit it you silly person……..slow down and read what’s in front of you vs drawing so many conclusions.
Aquagirl
November 2nd, 2011
9:12 am
Gas prices are high enough. Find something else to tax.
They’re not high enough to cover road construction and maintenance, but I’m glad you’re honest about wanting taxpayer subsidies, Pea. You want a side of food stamps with that?
Don't Tread
November 2nd, 2011
9:14 am
Anyone who can work from home should be allowed to work from home. This would free up the roads for the people who do have to physically be present at their jobs.
Problem solved. (Well, except for those in management who feel the need to micromanage others.)
stands for decibels
November 2nd, 2011
9:15 am
Problem solved. (Well, except for those in management who feel the need to micromanage others.)
Two words: Predator drones.
CM from Alpharetta
November 2nd, 2011
9:15 am
No New Capacity = No Congestion Relief; enough said!
Stop comparing this “demonstration project” where lanes were stolen from the taxpaying public to projects in other states where additional capacity was added, to be paid for by a toll. If you want to charge for something then build something new; otherwise, get out of the taxpayers’ wallet.
BTW, the engineering is has been questioned by GDOT because there are not HOT lane exits.
My last thought and I hope I am wrong but I am worried there will be a bad accident one day when faster traffic from the HOT lane tries merge with the general lanes to exit. After all, traffic trying to merge when traveling at vastly different speeds is noted as something to avoid in engineering circles, is it not?
1811/0311
November 2nd, 2011
9:17 am
md:
I think they forgot the “Occuru**ers” !
Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)
November 2nd, 2011
9:17 am
Well, up here in Forsyth County we don’t have HOT lanes. We have fast lanes and faster lanes. I do hate it when another pickup is on the road at the same time as me, but I guess I can live with it.
I don’t know why anybody’s suprized by the HOT lanes. It’s the same old DOT. You pay for a lane once and then you get to pay for it again. Just like you paid tolls on GA 400 in Buckhead till the bonds was paid off and then you get to keep paying. If you trust guvmint you deserve what you get. And some of the fools will be voting for that penny sales tax so they can get bamboozled again. Guvmint lies. Politicans lie. That’s how they stay in office.
Have a good Wednesday everybody.
Talking Head
November 2nd, 2011
9:18 am
Atlanta traffic blows.
Worst design ever.
Felton McMichael
November 2nd, 2011
9:19 am
@Peadawg 9:05 “gas prices are high enough. Find something else to tax.” Let’s run through a little thought exercise here:
1. Do you think traffic the traffic situation in Atlanta is wasteful of time and resources?
2. Do you think we should build more roads to alleviate this congestion?
3. How do you propose we pay for these new roads?
Normal
November 2nd, 2011
9:19 am
The final solution with tolls…
http://scifi.icanhascheezburger.com/2011/11/01/sci-fi-fantasy-digital-art-an-at-at-in-chicago/
kayaker 71
November 2nd, 2011
9:19 am
According to the liberal hero of the day, Elizabeth Warren, the evil corporations should be paying for these roads so that the common man does not. Wonder what she would look like in green tights.
Peadawg
November 2nd, 2011
9:19 am
“but I’m glad you’re honest about wanting taxpayer subsidies, Pea. You want a side of food stamps with that?”
lol wut?
Stevie Ray
November 2nd, 2011
9:19 am
On another note, I’m organizing a campaign to bring congressional approval rating to 0% from current 8%. Anyone game?
Felton McMichael
November 2nd, 2011
9:20 am
@ Aquagirl 9:12 – Perfect!
Paul
November 2nd, 2011
9:21 am
sfd
“at least two a-holes sitting in their 3-ton SUVs, idling away on a 70-degree day so that they can run their…”
what I get a kick out of are these guys who buy Ford 250s or 350s or Dodge Ram 3500s who use them to drive to work or to the store, who get diesel options and leave them idling in the parking lot. Ask them why and they say ‘ummm, they’re diesels…. gotta…. big rigs do it…. not sure why…. big rigs….”
The psychological profile would take pages…..
Jim Pierce
November 2nd, 2011
9:21 am
HOT lanes are now for increased revenue… it has nothing to do anymore about aleviating traffic. They’ve taxed everything imagineable, and now are taxing the very roads the citizens have paid for.
AmVet - Read my lips. No new hidden taxes.
November 2nd, 2011
9:21 am
71, though you childishly misrepresent the woman, you’re not qualified to speak for her cat…
Stevie Ray
November 2nd, 2011
9:21 am
Talking Head,
What design are you referring to? Planning commissions did little to no planning, remaining solely interested in tax revenues during the Gwinnett boom of the 80’s thru late 90’s…
MARTA Rida
November 2nd, 2011
9:22 am
The HOT lanes will just expedite the process of Gwinnett County turning into a low-density wasteland. Should have approved MARTA decades ago then you all wouldn’t have the traffic woes? I enjoy my stress-free commute on MARTA!
kayaker 71
November 2nd, 2011
9:23 am
AmVet,
Sort of testy this morning?
Felton McMichael
November 2nd, 2011
9:24 am
@ Peadawg 9:19 – perhaps aquagirl should have typed more slowly. allow me to explain: earlier you said gas prices were too high and that they should find something else to tax to pay for roads. gas taxes are essentially a user tax in that the money is paid by those who use the product. if you want more/better roads but don’t want to pay for them and suggest that some other revenue be found to fund them, then you are asking somebody else to subsidize your behavior, in much the same way that a food stamp recipient is the beneficiary of someone else’s tax dollars.
USinUK
November 2nd, 2011
9:24 am
“According to the liberal hero of the day, Elizabeth Warren, the evil corporations should be paying for these roads so that the common man does not”
that’s not what she said at all, buuuuuuuuuuuuuuut, nice try.
Talking Head
November 2nd, 2011
9:25 am
Stevie Ray,
The design of the input/ouput of interstate traffic, a self created bottleneck through downtown.
Peter
November 2nd, 2011
9:27 am
Jm don’t you live in Florida full time now ?
Peadawg
November 2nd, 2011
9:27 am
Felton McMichael
Did I say tax SOMEONE else? Nope, sure didn’t. Nice try though.
USinUK
November 2nd, 2011
9:27 am
http://babyboomeradvisorclub.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/Elizabeth%20Warren%20speech.jpg
(what she ACTUALLY said)
Mr Sunshine
November 2nd, 2011
9:27 am
Marta? Uh No I dont think so.
Aquagirl
November 2nd, 2011
9:28 am
lol wut?
Since you’re playing dumb, Pea, I’ll spell it out:
1. Gas taxes do not fully fund our roads.
2. The government makes up the shortfall with money from other taxes
3. Apparently you aren’t happy with your current level of freeloading and want someone else to pay for even more of your stuff.
4.The fact you magically excuse yourself from the freeloader label doesn’t mean squat, other people are TAXED ENOUGH ALREADY to pay for your roads, maybe it’s time you pay for them yourself.
AmVet - Read my lips. No new hidden taxes.
November 2nd, 2011
9:29 am
Nope. I’m in a great mood.
So specifically, what is your beef with Ms. Warren?
zeke
November 2nd, 2011
9:30 am
HOV, HOT, whatever you call them are useless! Create more congestion and at the same time rape taxpayers!!!
Peadawg
November 2nd, 2011
9:31 am
Aquagirl – read my 9:27
Thanks.
JFP0
November 2nd, 2011
9:31 am
HOT Lanes have added an extra 25 minutes – each way – to my husband’s commute. Most weeknights he misses dinner with his daughter. Asking for our patience is just like our president asking us to ‘hang in there’ for the economy to improve. Wait til businesses start avoiding Atlanta. You’ll see an about-face pdq…. but us lowly citizens don’t have a voice. How does that work?
hewhoasks
November 2nd, 2011
9:31 am
Underlying this is the foundation illogic: everyone wants a car and nobody wants there to be traffic.
Felton McMichael
November 2nd, 2011
9:31 am
@ Peadawg – “Did I say tax SOMEONE else? Nope, sure didn’t. Nice try though.”
Ok. So WHAT will you tax and WHO will pay this tax?
kayaker 71
November 2nd, 2011
9:32 am
USinUK,
Mrs Warren is the original Robin Hood. In her ridiculous rant about how much additional taxes the corporations of this country should pay, just for the privilege of doing business in this hostile environment that Bozo has created, she overlooks the fact that corporations can do business anyplace they want. Just one more nail in the coffin of job creation. Just think how many more new jobs are going to be created by punishing business for making money. She is Bozo heavy, in the worst way.
stands for decibels
November 2nd, 2011
9:32 am
Paul, ya know what Ah luv?
Ah luv the extra-manly and vaguely Southwestern soundin’ guys they git to do the voice-overs for all of the big pickemup truck commercials. And Ah love the narrative of virtually every one of those ads, which is, if you don’t buy this *here* truck, if you buy the other comp’ny’s truck, why, you are a testicularly challenged wuss.
(I guess the Dennis Leary-voiced Ford ads are a slight departure from the norm, but only slight.)
Felton McMichael
November 2nd, 2011
9:33 am
@JFP0 9:31 – or he could start paying the $2 once in a while. or move closer to work. or take the bus. or carpool with 2 others. or work different hours.
USinUK
November 2nd, 2011
9:34 am
kayaker – “punishing businesses for making money” – sweet jeebus, do you hear the words that come out of you???
punishing businesses???
try making them pay their way, bub.
Techfan
November 2nd, 2011
9:34 am
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Reason_Foundation
Joe Hussein Mama
November 2nd, 2011
9:34 am
Normal — “I wonder how they will handle accidents in the hot lanes…shove the wreaks into the nonpaying lanes, probably…”
If HOT drivers have accidents in the HOT lanes, then as far as I’m concerned, the accident and subsequent investigation can just STAY in the HOT lanes.
It’s kinda like marriage. You made your bed, and if it turns out you made a bad choice, then you can just lie in it.
Joe Blow
November 2nd, 2011
9:35 am
Hot lanes, have cause nothing but troubles and continue to piss people off. My one hour drive home has turned in to an hour and 20 mins. Thats an extra hour 20 min a week, that I will never get back of my life.
Hot lanes you suck!!!
USinUK
November 2nd, 2011
9:35 am
dB – I love me some Dennis Leary
Aquagirl
November 2nd, 2011
9:35 am
Ok. So WHAT will you tax and WHO will pay this tax?
His coyness is not coincidence….Pea’s buying time while until his inevitable “whoops, can’t chat any more, gotta run and pay the freeloaders!”
Normal
November 2nd, 2011
9:36 am
What really has me surprised about the Hot Lane, is that they are not free to the upper class and tolls are not levied on the other lanes used by the rest of us. The GOP must be slipping…
godless heathen
November 2nd, 2011
9:36 am
stands: “at least two a-holes sitting in their 3-ton SUVs, idling away on a 70-degree day so that they can run their…
Well there you go with personal anecdotes. When someone reports being behind a woman in the grocery store buying caviar with an EBT card, aren’t you one of the ones that jumps all over the statement, ridiculing personal anecdotes as evidence?
Peadawg
November 2nd, 2011
9:36 am
“Ok. So WHAT will you tax and WHO will pay this tax?” – I don’t have to make that decision.
Ask the governor.
BTW, I’ve said many times on here about legalizing online poker and taxing the deposits and/or withdrawals. And Felton, that would certainly include me.
Peadawg
November 2nd, 2011
9:37 am
“whoops, can’t chat any more, gotta run and pay the freeloaders!”
You must be thinking of someone else. I don’t believe I’ve ever said that before.
joe
November 2nd, 2011
9:37 am
The name “Bookman” and the word “truth” rarely mesh…
AmVet - Read my lips. No new hidden taxes.
November 2nd, 2011
9:37 am
71, do you understand the meaning of the adjective specifically?
Try again.
But given your track record here, I suspect you are not capable.
Joe Hussein Mama
November 2nd, 2011
9:37 am
G. Heathen — “Well there you go with personal anecdotes. When someone reports being behind a woman in the grocery store buying caviar with an EBT card, aren’t you one of the ones that jumps all over the statement, ridiculing personal anecdotes as evidence?”
I hate to say it, Stands, but Heathen has got you here. Maybe you should consider revising your statement.
Aquagirl
November 2nd, 2011
9:38 am
It’s kinda like marriage. You made your bed, and if it turns out you made a bad choice, then you can just lie in it.
Unless you’re Kim Kardashian.
Ayn Rand's Medicare
November 2nd, 2011
9:39 am
god, they’re not even trying anymore
just monkeys slingin poo
it’s over cons; the jig is up. The People are on to you.
USinUK
November 2nd, 2011
9:42 am
Aquagirl – or Britney Spears or any of the other < 6 months crowd
(but, of course, the biggest threat to the sanctity of marriage comes from teh gheys)
Libertarian
November 2nd, 2011
9:42 am
I wish they would get rid of the HOT lanes so that I don’t have to read about them in the AJC anymore. Yawn.
Paul
November 2nd, 2011
9:43 am
sfd
Not much beats the sight of a big pickem-up with the step-on running boards on the side in a handicap spot, watching two women, each about 5ft 2 (tall and wide) climbing up into the front seats.
True story.
Felton McMichael
November 2nd, 2011
9:43 am
@ peadawg – 9:36. I’m not wild about taxing online poker to pay for roads but at least you’re willing to put something on the table. I’d prefer that the revenue derived from taxing an item/activity bear more than a tangential relationship out of a general sense of fairness as well as economic efficiency. I’m not a online poker player and I don’t think it’s fair that those who do should pay disproportionately for my roads. Also, it would eventually put government in the position of promoting an activity which is not entirely beneficial in order to fund a necessary public good.
wreckmaniac
November 2nd, 2011
9:44 am
If this lane can get me to Hartsfield in time to avoid missing a flight, I’m all for it and will gladly pay the price. I obtained the pass for that one reason alone.
Joe Hussein Mama
November 2nd, 2011
9:44 am
Aquagirl — “Unless you’re Kim Kardashian.”
KK isn’t the one who made the bad choice. It was that sports mook she conned into taking her down the aisle.
Normal
November 2nd, 2011
9:45 am
wreckmaniac
November 2nd, 2011
9:44 am
…or you could just leave the house earlier…
Did we get a say
November 2nd, 2011
9:46 am
I don’t have the best memory, but were we even allowed to vote on the approval of the HOT lanes. I have lived in Gwinnett my whole life and I don’t recall seeing that. Paying taxes and sitting through miserable traffic to get the HOV lanes were one thing. Paying more taxes and turning the lane I paid for into a profit center seems to me to warrant an investigation. I would like to know if Benita or any of her GPPF buddies live in Gwinnett County.
Eli Jones
November 2nd, 2011
9:47 am
Because of Eric Holder’s and Barack Obama’s gun running, US border agent Brian Terry and US immigration customs enforcement agent Jaime Zapata were killed by those guns. Also over two hundred of Mexico’s citizens have been slaughtered by Holder’s and Obama’s guns. Obama and Holder used 10 Million dollars of our tax money to finance their deadly Fast And Furious insanity.
…………………………………………………………
SIGN THE PETITION TO PROSECUTE ERIC HOLDER FOR “FAST AND FURIOUS” (and pass it on)
http://act.theteaparty.net/5273/prosecute-eric-holder/
USinUK
November 2nd, 2011
9:48 am
JHM – pleez. they’re BOTH going to be well-paid for this media debacle.
I mean, criminey, it’s even in the news HERE, fercryingoutloud.
Road to Victory
November 2nd, 2011
9:48 am
” though you childishly misrepresent the woman, you’re not qualified to speak for her cat”
And you are qualified?
Butch Cassidy
November 2nd, 2011
9:49 am
Paul – ” these guys who buy Ford 250s or 350s or Dodge Ram 3500s who use them to drive to work or to the store, who get diesel options and leave them idling in the parking lot”
Freely translated – You may not respect my penis, but you gotta respect my truck!
USinUK
November 2nd, 2011
9:49 am
aw, bless …
ya gotta love Eli and his daily post …
MARTA Rida
November 2nd, 2011
9:50 am
Mr Sunshine, I bet you use MARTA to get to the airport? Your the guy standing in the corner holding his luggage with a fearful look like everybody on the train is trying to hurt you? Guess what, nobody cares about your damn luggage. Don’t like MARTA, then don’t ever complain about traffic! That’s all I ever hear is people complain about traffic, then when I bring up the transportation tax they all say NO. What other solution is there to traffic other than mass transit?
USinUK
November 2nd, 2011
9:51 am
Butch – 9:49 – that explains the … ahem … “decorations” that hang off the hitch in the back …
Butch Cassidy
November 2nd, 2011
9:52 am
Maybe the legislature just needs a more positive ad campaign to get everyone on board. How bout this: HOT Lanes – The Lanes so nice, we charge you twice!
Joe Hussein Mama
November 2nd, 2011
9:52 am
USinUK — “ya gotta love Eli and his daily post …”
I think it is DARLING how he’s pretending to care about Mexicans when the Tea Party would be perfectly happy to put all Hispanics (my wife included), regardless of national origin or citizenship, into rail cars and then ship them south of the Rio Grande.
Go peddle crazy somewhere else, Eli. Free Republic, Little Green Footballs, Rense and Carnicom ought to be fertile land for you to raise a new crop of nuttery.
Aquagirl
November 2nd, 2011
9:53 am
I’m not a online poker player and I don’t think it’s fair that those who do should pay disproportionately for my roads.
Ah, the old sin tax dodge. When you need a teat, pick one on the unpopular sow. This somehow makes freeloading ok.
Darwin
November 2nd, 2011
9:53 am
What’s the complaint? We must ensure that our top 1% get to where they’re going fast. I mean, I’m depending on you people to make a living with the other 99%. And those not in the top 1%, they’re voting Republican because they THINK they’re in the top 1%! We still need you man.
kayaker 71
November 2nd, 2011
9:54 am
USinUK,
“The beatings will not stop until morale improves”. Business is the engine that has produced most of the prosperity in this country that millions have enjoyed for the last 100 yrs. What a nice environment that liberals create for business to thrive!!! No wonder they go overseas into less business hostile environments. “Making them pay their way”? Only Japan (40.6%) pays more federal corporate tax than the US (38%). How much will it take to completely drive them away from this country. And you wonder why they are leaving? The evil Koch brothers employ nearly 70,000 people world wide. Lots of good salaries, health care benefits, 401Ks and other retirement benefits. Wonder how many of their employees think that they are evil?
whatdoiknow
November 2nd, 2011
9:54 am
Gee . . . I wonder how fast traffic would flow if all lanes were unrestricted?
Paul
November 2nd, 2011
9:55 am
Butch 9:49
well…. at least something they have works…..
whatdoiknow
November 2nd, 2011
9:55 am
Gee . . . I wonder how much traffic will be backed up once Hot Lanes are introduced to I-575 . . .
Paul
November 2nd, 2011
9:56 am
kayaker 71
You’re making the case that US corporations actually pay 38%?
Joe Hussein Mama
November 2nd, 2011
9:56 am
K71 — “Business is the engine that has produced most of the prosperity in this country that millions have enjoyed for the last 100 yrs.”
Business wouldn’t have done jack squat without the participation of labor.
Capital can’t do a thing without labor.
Gwinnett since 91
November 2nd, 2011
9:56 am
HOT lanes are just another fundraiser for the bloated beaurocracy we have. Its class warfare, nothing less, nothing more.
whatdoiknow
November 2nd, 2011
9:56 am
Gee . . . I wonder how pissed off folks are that have “paid” for the inconvenience created by the Hot Lanes . . .
AmVet - Read my lips. No new hidden taxes.
November 2nd, 2011
9:57 am
Road to ???,
I’d have to look up which logical fallacy that 9:48 of yours is, but I’m pretty sure it is something straight out of sixth grade discourse.
(Hint, the answer is no.)
Peadawg
November 2nd, 2011
9:57 am
“Ah, the old sin tax dodge. When you need a teat, pick one on the unpopular sow. This somehow makes freeloading ok.”
Not sure how that’d be freeloading considering at 9:36 I said THAT WOULD CERTAINLY INCLUDE ME. I’d be getting taxed under this scenario. Damn, aquagirl…read before you spout crap from your rear.
DebbieDoRight
November 2nd, 2011
9:58 am
k71: Business is the engine that has produced most of the prosperity in this country that millions have enjoyed for the last 100 yrs. What a nice environment that liberals create for business to thrive!!!
You know if they don’t like how things are done, they can always take their business incorporation licenses (usually out of Delaware); and move them to a country that’s more slave…..i mean business friendly. Like China for instance.
They can set up shop in China; then cry when the Chineese takes over their corporation and renames it “The People’s Republic Of WalMart”.
Felton McMichael
November 2nd, 2011
9:58 am
@aquagirl 9:53 — that was directed @ peadawg right? just to be clear, i’d rather “vices” not be taxed disproportionately and that to the extent they are taxed those taxes be directed at whatever harms they may cause – online poker taxes would be used to pay for more math classes; liquor be taxed to pay for substance abuse treatment, etc.
Robert
November 2nd, 2011
9:59 am
My neighbor and I used to carpool when we had the “right” to use the HOV with two people. Now, that option has been denied us, and we’re driving two cars to work. Is this what the DOT wanted—100% more pollution? I know of many who have done the same thing. I hope HOT LANES are an immediate and total failure !!!!!! Please don’t use them.
Butch Cassidy
November 2nd, 2011
9:59 am
Just remember, the HOT lanes are an invaluable asset. They will ensure that the “job creators” are able to move quickly and efficiently to their destinations. They must not be burdened by the heavy yolk of over taxation and long commutes. Those who oppose the HOT lanes oppose these great United States of America!
Think I’ll submit that to Herman Cain.
USinUK
November 2nd, 2011
10:00 am
kayaker – businesses have a higher rate, but they pay the least – mostly because they off-shore their HQ, while keeping their operations here
http://www.npr.org/2011/09/10/138867588/corporate-taxes-how-low-can-you-go
this is a heads-I-win, tails-you-lose proposition – we can keep it as is and they stay off-shore or cut it and still not get the money
kayaker 71
November 2nd, 2011
10:01 am
Joe,
Granted, labor has been a big factor. But without business, labor wouldn’t have anyplace to work. Jobs….. who provides them? Business, plain and simple. Who puts people to work? Business. Who pays salaries, health care benefits, retirement plans?… Business. To most liberals, profit is a dirty word. But without profits, business cannot survive. Is that so hard to understand?
USinUK
November 2nd, 2011
10:01 am
JHM – more to the point, they can’t do anything without customers.
which is why corporations are screwing the pooch by sitting on profits and not hiring.
USinUK
November 2nd, 2011
10:02 am
kayaker – “But without business, labor wouldn’t have anyplace to work.”
nice try, but demand drives all
not supply
Joe Hussein Mama
November 2nd, 2011
10:03 am
B. Cassidy — ” They will ensure that the “job creators” are able to move quickly and efficiently to their destinations.”
One hopes that they’ll actually create some effing jobs when they get there.
stands for decibels
November 2nd, 2011
10:06 am
aren’t you one of the ones that jumps all over the statement, ridiculing personal anecdotes as evidence?
Yes, I am. And I ridicule these anecdotes mostly because I’ve never seen anything like them in my own experience. However, I have plenty of evidence beyond my one (1) illustrative example. You can start by looking at the ridiculous horsepower race going on at all levels of the auto industry. And by how the industry continues to net incredible profit margins on grotesque pickups and SUVs.
carlosgvv
November 2nd, 2011
10:06 am
USinUK – 9:48
With all the tabloids you have, EVERYTHING is in the news.
jj
November 2nd, 2011
10:06 am
Lets think back to many of the articles in the AJC as the hot lanes were proposed and opened
1) When polled the users of I85 said they would not use the hot lanes
2) The DOT admitted that the toll could cause as many as 120 cars per hour per lane would move to the free lanes
3) The tollway authority said the HOT lanes would probably never pay for itself and it would tap the GA 400 tolls to subsidize it.
So in summary, we spend $60mm dollars for technology that will never pay for itself and has a high potential to make traffic worse. Only in government!
kayaker 71
November 2nd, 2011
10:07 am
USinUk,
If you all wound up about how much corporations pay to the federal government, perhaps you should pay more attention to tax reform. There is not one liberal I know in the public sector that has advocated tax reform across the board. Only Republican candidates. If you don’t like Cain’s 9-9-9 plan, perhaps Perry’s flat tax. You continue to whine about how unfair our tax code treats the common man and benefits evil business but you continue to support the system.
USinUK
November 2nd, 2011
10:08 am
carlos – 10:06 –
well said.
thank god we’re lighter by one now with the demise of News of the World …
Aquagirl
November 2nd, 2011
10:09 am
I’d be getting taxed under this scenario
Then why not pay gas taxes? What’s with the gyrations to pay when you gamble, instead of when you drive? Unless of course you plan on gambling enough to pay for all roads yourself. In that case you need help.
But how big of you to decide for everyone in the gambling group. Damn,Pea….read your own posts, you might realize only a mighty big ego assumes because it’s okay with you, everyone wants to provide that teat.
Tapping gamblers has worked out so well for the HOPE scholarship it now doesn’t cover full costs. So when the poker money runs out (like that’s gonna cover our roads anyhow, another crap assumption) what source would you like to leech next? Any other groups you’d like to speak for?
USinUK
November 2nd, 2011
10:09 am
kayaker – you must be new here, I’ve talked about my support for the flat tax (no deductions EVAH) for years.
Butch Cassidy
November 2nd, 2011
10:09 am
kayaker 71 – ” But without business, labor wouldn’t have anyplace to work. Jobs….. who provides them? Business, plain and simple. Who puts people to work? Business. Who pays salaries, health care benefits, retirement plans?…
Who lays off thousands of workers in the pursuit of short term gains? Business. Who off shores jobs and displaces thousands of workers and their families? Business. Who rewards their CEO’s with lavish pay packages and golden parachutes at the expense of the employees? Business. Who screams poverty and uncertainty while reaping record profits? Business……..Shall I go on, or have you had enough?
Joe Hussein Mama
November 2nd, 2011
10:10 am
K71 — “Granted, labor has been a big factor. But without business, labor wouldn’t have anyplace to work.”
Prior to early industrialization (e.g. Bronze and Iron Age), labor worked for itself. Industrialization brought on the specialization of labor. It is that specialization that business relies on, otherwise, businesses seeking workers could take anyone who walked in off the street.
“Jobs….. who provides them? Business, plain and simple.”
Labor . . . where does it come from? Workers, plain and simple.
“Who puts people to work? Business.”
Whose effort is monetized by business? Labor’s.
“Who pays salaries, health care benefits, retirement plans?… Business.”
Despite your rather lame construction, business does not pull those things out of its butt. Business provides those things NOT out of equity capital, but out of ONGOING PROFIT, which was earned thanks to the labor of businesses’ workers.
Maybe you think the Business Fairy flies in through an open window and magically bestows all those goodies on workers simply because of the goodwill of their employers, but the fact of the matter is that businesses can afford to provide those benefits because they made enough gross on LABOR’S EFFORTS to AFFORD those benefits.
“To most liberals, profit is a dirty word.”
Not intended to be a true statement.
“But without profits, business cannot survive. Is that so hard to understand?”
Without labor, business and profit would not exist. Is THAT so hard to understand?
John Adams
November 2nd, 2011
10:11 am
What I love about this is that social engineering, which groups like GPPF and Reason have long disparaged, is okay when it’s something they like! “Getting people to change their driving patterns” using government to make the world the way you want it as requiring transit-oriented-development through zoning laws.
It’s laughably ironic.
Joe Hussein Mama
November 2nd, 2011
10:11 am
Stands — “However, I have plenty of evidence beyond my one (1) illustrative example. ”
As I recall, Doom said pretty much the same things you’re saying when we called him out on his ‘example.’
WOODSTOCK MIKE
November 2nd, 2011
10:15 am
Why do liberals hate business, rich people, wall-street, etc??
What a rediculous way to look at things.
Liberals have such a jealous mentality, just be happy with who you are, don’t be angry about it, everyone has a place in society.
Joe Hussein Mama
November 2nd, 2011
10:15 am
K71 — “There is not one liberal I know in the public sector that has advocated tax reform across the board.”
That’s just code for a flat tax, and I see nothing virtuous or even workable in it.
“Only Republican candidates. If you don’t like Cain’s 9-9-9 plan, perhaps Perry’s flat tax.”
IMO, both suck.
“You continue to whine about how unfair our tax code treats the common man and benefits evil business but you continue to support the system.”
You presume much, and you’re apparently claiming that a flat tax is axiomatically virtuous when that’s far from true.
Jack
November 2nd, 2011
10:15 am
Jm, you’re giving Bookman a heartburn. If you “imply” that you know more about a subject than he, you’ve messed ‘em up.
Aquagirl
November 2nd, 2011
10:15 am
@aquagirl 9:53 — that was directed @ peadawg right?
Yes, felton, sorry for any confusion. I’m on board with you…gamblers should cover the cost of their gambling and the fallout. What a novel idea!
Of course if we did this with autos and gas, Pea would totally pop his cork. All those adventures to secure the oil-rich middle east, added healthcare from the heart attacks and smog…..oh, man, the screams would shatter glass.
Remember, it’s only freeloading when someone else is doing it. It’s the Republican way.
md
November 2nd, 2011
10:16 am
“What other solution is there to traffic other than mass transit?”
Enough folks get tired of it they move??
The commute is a choice…..although some here can’t see that. They choose to make lots of excuses instead…..one is king…..hands down.
Jefferson
November 2nd, 2011
10:16 am
Another GOP idea that is bad and like their policies continue to cause problems. Too much was paid for the roads we get due to the pro business climate and big rigging.
Joe Hussein Mama
November 2nd, 2011
10:16 am
Mike — “Why do liberals hate business, rich people, wall-street, etc??”
Why do conservatives make stuff up?
Ross
November 2nd, 2011
10:16 am
So, let’s say I am going from Atlanta to 316 on 85. I want to use the hot lane, which is moving, but I need to get off at 316. However, traffic is backed up. How the hell am I supposed to get from the hot lane to the 316 exit without backing up the hot lane trying to get over.
USinUK
November 2nd, 2011
10:17 am
“Why do liberals hate business, rich people, wall-street, etc??”
oy.
just when you think the stoopit can’t get stoopiter … along comes this
WOODSTOCK MIKE
November 2nd, 2011
10:17 am
Liberals remind me of the kids in high school who weren’t good athletes, weren’t very good looking, and hated all the jocks and hated all the popular kids. Man, just accept yourself and be happy, not everyone is good looking, or rich, or a great athlete, it’s ok…
Sure is Amazing
November 2nd, 2011
10:17 am
Jm
November 2nd, 2011
8:28 am
He’ll. The Obama FDOT is looking at tolling the whole national interstate system. Fact.
Guess we’ve found another point of disagreement between Jay and Obama.
NOT FACT. What are your sources? You should be excited about this outcome though (if it is true) as you made your CON bed, now lie in it. You want to keep cutting government, as if it is getting less and less expensive to maintain our infrastructure. My momma always told me you pay for what you get!
Mark Pellegri
November 2nd, 2011
10:17 am
Atlanta suffers perpetual congestion even more than other cities of comparable size in from having “grown up with the automobile” and the corresponding over-reliance on primary traffic corridors. Some improvements can be gained from paying attention to recent studies on “anarchy” in traffic patterns and clues on how to reduce congestion without simply pushing more and more capacity or technology on the existing major roads. See the following briefs for synopsis:
http://theorymatters.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php?n=Visioning.PriceAnarchy
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=removing-roads-and-traffic-lights
WOODSTOCK MIKE
November 2nd, 2011
10:18 am
“just when you think the stoopit can’t get stoopiter … along comes this”
Ok genius, please tell me the ways that liberals like business, rich people, wall street, tell me some positive things liberals have to say?? Talk about stupid…
Peadawg
November 2nd, 2011
10:19 am
“Then why not pay gas taxes?” – B/c gas prizes are too high as it is. Did you miss when I said that?
“But how big of you to decide for everyone in the gambling group. ” – The other poster asked for a suggestion and I gave one. Not sure where your outrage is coming from.
“Tapping gamblers has worked out so well for the HOPE scholarship it now doesn’t cover full costs.” – If the CEOs or whatever they’re called that work for the lottery wouldn’t use funds to fatten their wallets and instead pay out the 35% to HOPE like was originally what it was supposed to do…HOPE may still paying full tuition for 4 years. CEO pay has gone up and the percentage lottery pays for HOPE has gone DOWN every year since it was created.
“Any other groups you’d like to speak for?” – I’m still wondering when/where I spoke for even ONE group. I’d didn’t know giving a tax suggestion was speaking for an entire group. Are you part of the “wealthy” group that you always suggest should pay higher taxes btw?
Seems like you keep digging and digging. I’d stop if I were you.
WOODSTOCK MIKE
November 2nd, 2011
10:19 am
See ya liberals, be careful with all that complaining and anger, it’s not healthy…
md
November 2nd, 2011
10:19 am
“this is a heads-I-win, tails-you-lose proposition – we can keep it as is and they stay off-shore or cut it and still not get the money”
Not exactly……leaving it offshore ensures one thing……we get nothing out of it……bring it back even at 0% and that capital is working in our system…….and will be producing accordingly…..interest rates will contribute if nothing else.
Peadawg
November 2nd, 2011
10:21 am
“Remember, it’s only freeloading when someone else is doing it. It’s the Republican way.” – Is that like asking the wealthy to pay more to fund entitlements for the poor and stimulus packages?? Or is that called something else?
Joe Hussein Mama
November 2nd, 2011
10:22 am
Mike — “Ok genius, please tell me the ways that liberals like business, rich people, wall street, tell me some positive things liberals have to say?? Talk about stupid…”
Try not making overarching generalizations, Mike. Liberals aren’t all alike any more than conservatives are.
Liberals like businesses like Ben & Jerry’s and Costco — that treat their employees well and still manage to turn a decent profit.
Liberals like rich folks like Warren Buffett and Bill Gates — who are generous with their wealth and who recognize that the tax system favors the rich and screws the middle class.
Is there anyone not working on Wall Street who *doesn’t* dislike Wall Street these days?
Try being more of a calm and temperate adult, and less of a hidebound ideologue who demonizes people with whom he doesn’t agree, and I think you’ll get the polite conversation you’re looking for.
Adam
November 2nd, 2011
10:23 am
Peadawg: If you feel so strongly about raising taxes on yourself, through online poker or what-have-you, why don’t you just cut a check? I’m sure the local government would like that, right?
Ross
November 2nd, 2011
10:23 am
So, let’s say I am going from Atlanta to 316 on 85. I want to use the hot lane, which is moving, but I need to get off at 316. However, traffic is backed up. How the hell am I supposed to get from the hot lane to the 316 exit without backing up the hot lane trying to get over.
Joe Hussein Mama
November 2nd, 2011
10:24 am
Mike — “See ya liberals, be careful with all that complaining and anger, it’s not healthy…”
I’ll tell the Tea Party and the health care town hall protestors that you left a message for them.
DebbieDoRight
November 2nd, 2011
10:24 am
If you don’t like Cain’s 9-9-9 plan…..
I’ve often wondered, exactly what IS Cain’s 9-9-9 plan and what’s it all about. Since Cain is failing to give appropriate, (concise or even INTELLIGENT responses), to questions asked pertaniing to his plan, I have come to my own conclusions.
9-9-9 Stands for:
The 9 women behind door #9 that Cain got freaky with on the 9th of May, 1999.
The 9 times Cain made sense since announcing his candidacy in 2009. (On the 9th of September).
The 9 men, in bathroom #9, that Cain accidentaly toched with his “wide stance”; that threatened to kick his azz all the way to Highway 9 and back.
kayaker 71
November 2nd, 2011
10:24 am
USinUK,
Congress could change the tax code anytime they want. Our present tax code has gazillions of pages of loopholes, dodges and imperfect language which allows business and others to pay less. I am not sure, but I would venture to say that you have never volunteered to pay more in taxes than the tax code demands. What makes you think that business is any different?
deegee
November 2nd, 2011
10:25 am
It would be easy to counter Woodstock Mike by saying that all conservatives are as superficial as he is, but that would be wrong.
Peter
November 2nd, 2011
10:25 am
Hey WOODSTOCK MIKE. Why don’t you answer the question ?
How do we pay for the Bush Wars ?
Mike
November 2nd, 2011
10:25 am
Jay, you say the lanes were carved out of existing interstate. True in a sense, but from existing interstate that was already reserved for multi-occupant vehicles, 24 hours a day. So solo drivers never could use those lanes anyway.
I have some difficulty believing there were so many 2-person carpools affected by this, or 3-plus carpools whose drivers haven’t figured out that if they just go get a peachpass, they can continue to use the lane for free. So where is all of this “extra” traffic coming from?
I suspect this is just another opportunity to complain that people who have a little more disposable income are getting an “unfair” advantage.
Adam
November 2nd, 2011
10:25 am
md: So when you say sarcastically in response to “sex envy” that people love STDs, I am supposed to be able to conclude that you are a reasonable person who does not think any of the things I sarcastically posted in response to you?
Joe Hussein Mama
November 2nd, 2011
10:25 am
Ross — “How the hell am I supposed to get from the hot lane to the 316 exit without backing up the hot lane trying to get over.”
I am sure that our conservative friends will come up with a market-based solution to solve your problem. Just give them 10-15 years to come up with it, plan it, get it funded and then implement it. By sometime in the 20s, you should be sailing along on the commute without a care in the world.
USinUK
November 2nd, 2011
10:25 am
mike – criticizing the system – particularly when the system allows investment banks to GAME said system – isn’t hate.
I like business – have worked for the big, the small and the in-between (heck, even had my own for a while) – what I DON’T like is the way that CEOs are remunerated at exhorbitant – exhorbitant? try outrageous – rates while the workers receive crumbs from the table, if they receive anything other than a pink slip. I think it’s immoral that these people are treated as “producers” while the workers are treated worse than rent-a-mules.
lastly, what I DON’T like is the environment for public companies which 1) makes them “keep up with the Joneses” – if their competitors are outsourcing, they had damned well better be outsourcing, too, or they’ll get dinged, or move away from their core competancies because some dickhead analyst says he should. and 2) makes they lay off their workers because they made 12% profit instead of 14% as expected. it’s not right – and it’s destroying this country.
that’s not hating the rich, business OR wall street, but the MASSIVELY effed-up system we’re operating in.
Peadawg
November 2nd, 2011
10:26 am
DebbieDoRight
November 2nd, 2011
10:24 am
That’s funny. I don’t care who you are.
El Oko Chon
November 2nd, 2011
10:27 am
@ Armed Liberal, Im on it!….patent pending
USinUK
November 2nd, 2011
10:27 am
“. I am not sure, but I would venture to say that you have never volunteered to pay more in taxes than the tax code demands”
this old canard.
no one can pay what they don’t owe. you can’t do it with SS. you can’t do it with taxes.
nice try, but soooooooooooooo incredibly lame.
Adam
November 2nd, 2011
10:29 am
USinUK: lastly, what I DON’T like is the environment for public companies which 1) makes them “keep up with the Joneses”
You mean how all the other banks publicly said they were going to start charging $5 fees for debit cards until BoA backed off?
Paul
November 2nd, 2011
10:29 am
Joe Hussein – USinUK
Woodstock’s been told, many times, people are upset because they bailed out banks and financial corporations for the results of their bad decisions, then those same people lost jobs and houses and retirement savings from the results of those bad decisions…. then the people who made the bad decisions paid no penalty, suffered no repercussions (unlike the people who bailed them out) and they got millions in bonuses.
Woodstock understands this.
I think he just can’t help himself.
Joe Hussein Mama
November 2nd, 2011
10:32 am
Paul — “then the people who made the bad decisions paid no penalty, suffered no repercussions (unlike the people who bailed them out) and they got millions in bonuses.”
I make it a practice not to wish misfortune on anyone or celebrate when harm or death comes to anyone, but if Ken Lewis (former CEO of BofA) were to fall down some stairs and break his fool neck, I’d have a hard time squeezing out a single tear for him.
I wonder if Mike can relate to that at all.
Normal
November 2nd, 2011
10:33 am
When Woodstock Mike comes in, it reminds me of a drive by shooting by a blind man…noisy, but no real damage…bless him.
DebbieDoRight
November 2nd, 2011
10:35 am
Top of the morning to you PDawg!!
Adam: You mean how all the other banks publicly said they were going to start charging $5 fees for debit cards until BoA backed off?
That’s why I advocate Credit Unions — less fees, nonsense, and compulsive greediness.
Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)
November 2nd, 2011
10:37 am
Well, I drive a Ford F-450 and it’s got running boards but it ain’t diesel and I don’t leave it running when I get out. Not with gas at 3.50 a gallon. Because it only gets 7 mpg. And I don’t like this slam on pickup drivers.
kayaker 71
November 2nd, 2011
10:37 am
USinUK,
You seem to think that business owes you a job, even in rough financial times. Business doesn’t owe you a damn thing. This old crap about “business should get off of all that money that they are sitting one and hire” is just that…. crap. They hire based on the demand for their products, or lack of it. Do you have a 401K? During boom times, business gets a pass from most liberals because their stocks are going up and they are benefiting from all that business does for them. Life is good. Then a downturn occurs and business is all of sudden evil, selfish and self-centered. I’m sure you didn’t say that when Microsoft was doubling every 6mos and your 401K was soaring. No one protests when you are getting healed.
Aquagirl
November 2nd, 2011
10:38 am
“Then why not pay gas taxes?” – B/c gas prizes are too high as it is. Did you miss when I said that?
No, I’m wondering why you think roads are affordable if you shift the costs elsewhere. And why you think you’re the one to decide gas taxes are “too high,” and we should subsidize them MORE so we can incur even more debt. I have no problem with the cost of gas, it sounds like you have a personal responsibility problem.
It’s wonderful to live in con land, where your unaffordable lifestyle is ok, it’s everyone else that’s the problem.
But keep dodging, Pea, we’re just filling time until ‘ol Herman digs himself even deeper and we get fresh sheets.
AmVet - Read my lips. No new hidden taxes.
November 2nd, 2011
10:38 am
Normal, your 10:33 is hysterical!
And apropos.
How tea party could drive GOP to disaster
For three years, Republican activists have lived in a fantasy world in which fringe characters like Sarah Palin and Herman Cain somehow “speak for the common sense of the common people.” It seems incredible that anybody could believe such a thing. It seems crazy that anyone would actually need a presidential election to disabuse them of such notions. But as Benjamin Franklin said: “Experience is a hard teacher, but fools will have no other.”
http://www.cnn.com/2011/10/31/opinion/frum-republican-tea-party-scenarios/index.html?hpt=hp_bn9
Adam
November 2nd, 2011
10:38 am
DDR: I am personally glad a lot of people agree with you and are still moving forward to move their money on Nov 5. We have OWS to thank for getting BoA, and then the other banks later, to back off on the $5 fee. Now we just need to be just as outraged every time they try a new scheme to make money off of the 99%.
godless heathen
November 2nd, 2011
10:43 am
“We have OWS to thank for getting BoA, and then the other banks later, to back off on the $5 fee. ”
Not intended to be a factual statement.
Hawk
November 2nd, 2011
10:43 am
This whole mess can be can said in one word ” Greed “.There are no republicans or democrates just green(money)men.Everything is done to make a profit.If a error in judgement is made the working man pays for the mistake.If people would use their common sense you can see what`s going on.They count on your igorance…must people in this world are sheep. They want to be led and told what to do,because thinking and reasoning is to hard.It`s easier to let someone do it for you.Remember these people at the top care nothing for you,even when they say they do. We are fodder for them. Think for yourself and be a individual!!
Joe Hussein Mama
November 2nd, 2011
10:44 am
K71 — “During boom times, business gets a pass from most liberals”
Not intended to be a true statement.
kayaker 71
November 2nd, 2011
10:44 am
Adam,
Those scruffy people who are protesting has nothing to do with BOA dropping their debit card fee. It was BOA customers who threatened to move their accounts if the fee was not dropped. The protest was loud but had nothing to with the WSPs.
stands for decibels
November 2nd, 2011
10:44 am
Doom said pretty much the same things you’re saying when we called him out on his ‘example.’
Joe Mama, rhetorical naughtiness on my part duly noted, but–
I don’t really need to chart how power-to-weight ratios have increased across the board, nor do I really need to go into how much the automakers rely on profits from
suckerscustomers who opt for absurdly large conveyances with mpg ratings, to make the overall point that Americans, generally, don’t seem to find gasoline prices really all that burdensome, do I?(And by typing that, I fully acknowledge that increasing gas taxes will affect the working poor, and I don’t recommend increasing them to a level they need to be all at once; it’d have to be phased in gradually. But it needs to happen.)
Joe Hussein Mama
November 2nd, 2011
10:44 am
Meeting; back later.
getalife
November 2nd, 2011
10:45 am
perry was not drunk.
He took Ativan.
It makes you feel really good and happy
Peter
November 2nd, 2011
10:45 am
Paul.
WOODSTOCK MIKE is a talking head for the right…… he is unable to justify the spending of the Bush Wars, and is unable as all Republican’s are at a solution for the War debt.
Peadawg
November 2nd, 2011
10:45 am
“It’s wonderful to live in con land, where your unaffordable lifestyle is ok, it’s everyone else that’s the problem.” – I don’t live there so I wouldn’t know.
“And why you think you’re the one to decide gas taxes are “too high,” ” – Again, where’s all this hate/outrage/anger coming from? This is a blog where we all have opinions. I’m not the one deciding anything.
Funny how you only picked that one line to respond to btw……
Rich Dude
November 2nd, 2011
10:46 am
Jay,
You are right. But that’s OK, Us uppity folks should have our own lane, our time is worth more than the lower class folks. Get used to it.
Normal
November 2nd, 2011
10:46 am
getalife
November 2nd, 2011
10:45 am
OMG…he’s a drug addict!!!
Bruno
November 2nd, 2011
10:46 am
We have OWS to thank for getting BoA, and then the other banks later, to back off on the $5 fee.
How is that, Adam?? The banks retracted the fees due to customer complaints. Good old fashioned capitalistic competition is what got the fees dropped, not the rantings of a bunch of malcontents who couldn’t think their way out of a paper bag.
BTW, getting to the “truth” about OWS protesters:
http://news.yahoo.com/nyc-arrest-records-many-occupy-wall-street-protesters-045625415.html
From the article:
“Among addresses for which information is available, single-family homes listed on those police intake forms have a median value of $305,000 — a far higher number than the $185,400 median value of owner-occupied housing units in the United States.”
Were you one of the rubes who fell for this crap??
Peadawg
November 2nd, 2011
10:47 am
“We have OWS to thank for getting BoA, and then the other banks later, to back off on the $5 fee. ” – I wouldn’t go that far but they probably didn’t hurt. I’d say it was just like w/ Netflix…people were starting to go elsewhere so the Banks/Netflix backtracked.
Joe Hussein Mama
November 2nd, 2011
10:47 am
Stands — I respect your position and agree with it in large part, but oblique support aside, you really didn’t have any hard examples to support your anecdote, and that’s what I’m speaking to.
Respectfully, if it’s wrong when cons do it, then it should be wrong when we do it, too. Let’s strive to be the better party in that argument, hmm?
godless heathen
November 2nd, 2011
10:47 am
Stands, I agree with you on the waste of horsepower, but it’s a free country (sortta). Just try telling Americans they can’t have 300+ horsepower and who _needs_ a car that will go more than 70 mph? An argument that I like to use in the gun control discussions when someone says, “Who needs a gun that will hold 30 rounds?” Well, who needs a car that can go 120 mph?
Joe Hussein Mama
November 2nd, 2011
10:47 am
Okay, meeting for real now. Back later.
md
November 2nd, 2011
10:48 am
“md: So when you say sarcastically in response to “sex envy” that people love STDs, I am supposed to be able to conclude that you are a reasonable person who does not think any of the things I sarcastically posted in response to you?”
First off, you have 50/50 odds that I said it “sarcastically” (I did)………second…..don’t recall ever saying people “love” std’s (more conjecture on your part).
The point…….you have this odd habit of assuming vs asking what folks mean……and then post long winded diatribes.
How about posting your thoughts and let others post theirs……
Normal
November 2nd, 2011
10:48 am
I think we should pay the same amount for gas as the Europeans…sure would make my 59mpg motorcycle more valuable…
getalife
November 2nd, 2011
10:48 am
Normal,
Probably.
I was a nervous wreck before open heart surgery.
This nurse took one look at me and came back with a shot of Ativan.
Yes, I was perry in the operating room
Soothsayer
November 2nd, 2011
10:49 am
New Libyan “PM” is Big-Oil Goon. Rebels Turn Guns on each other Turning Tripoli into a War Zone
November 2, 2011 – Associated Press recently reported that Libya’s rebel militants have named a new “prime minister” this week. AP depicts the latest unelected Western proxy, Abdurrahim el-Keib, as a progressive academic who has spent decades in the United States teaching at Alabama University and leading the local Muslim community. Mentioned briefly as a “former employer,” however, is the Petroleum Institute, based in Abu Dhabi, Dubai and sponsored by British Petroleum (BP), Shell, France’s Total, the Japan Oil Development Company, and the Abu Dhabi National Oil Company. El-Keib is listed as a “Professor and Chairman” in his Petroleum Institute profile which also describes extensive research conducted by him sponsored by various US government agencies and departments over the years.
And so begins the farce that is Western “democracy.” One corporate-fascist puppet, Mustafa Abdul-Jalil, steps down, another, Abdurrahim el-Keib, takes his place. In reality, it is NATO-states and their corporate sponsors that now determine Libya’s fate.
In essence, el-Keib, like his predecessor Jalil, is Libyan in name only and has been working for Western corporations, governments, and institutions for decades. Like Jalil, or Egypt’s Mohammed ElBaradei, el-Keib is yet another agent of Western interests masquerading as an indigenous leader in a foreign land. That his rise to power was paved by thousands of NATO strike sorties in a 7 month military operation spearheaded by the United States and at the cost of tens of thousands of Libyan civilians makes his ascension to power in Libya ever more a desecration of Libya’s sovereignty.
Now, who could have seen this coming?
stands for decibels
November 2nd, 2011
10:50 am
conveyances with mpg ratings
oops. shoulda added a “cruddy” in there.
Finn McCool
November 2nd, 2011
10:51 am
off topic:
More striking, though, is Hannity’s refusal to grapple with a very basic question: Why would the “liberal media” be so intent on taking out Cain when his nomination would actually be the best thing that could happen to Democrats’ hopes of retaining the White House next year? Even Republicans seem to understand that Cain would be a general election disaster; it’s why he’s still racked up no high-profile endorsements from party leaders, even though he’s near the top in polls and the first primary season contests are two months away. If anyone has an obvious incentive to cut Cain down to size, they’re on the GOP side. This is why Mike Huckabee, Hannity’s fellow Fox News host, said on Monday that he’d “almost guarantee” the story was given to Politico by a Republican.
None of this came up on “Hannity,” though, and instead viewers were told a familiar, comfortable tale about the big, bad liberal media and its contempt for conservatives, especially those with dark skin. In a way, there’s nothing surprising about this. As Bill O’Reilly, of all people, pointed out a few months ago, Hannity’s is “a Republican show” — one that stands out even on Fox for its eagerness to cheer for all Republicans not named Ron Paul and to condemn every Democrat not named Zell Miller. It’s also tempting to paint a scenario in which Hannity’s efforts blow up in his face — that, say, millions of conservatives now rally to Cain and propel him to the nomination, setting the stage for an Obama landslide next fall. But then, that outcome would be just be the ultimate demonstration of the media’s commitment to destroying black conservatives, wouldn’t it?
http://www.salon.com/2011/11/01/sean_hannity_will_make_herman_cain_the_victim_of_a_liberal_smear_no_matter_what/
Peadawg
November 2nd, 2011
10:51 am
Adam, did OWS also have to do w/ Netflix backtracking on some of its changes? Or was it the loss of almost a million customers and stocks going from $300/share -> $70/share?
Brosephus
November 2nd, 2011
10:52 am
DDR
If you’re still around, the Tide has already slaughtered both a hog and a gator. You do realize what that means, right? We only need to beat the seasonings out of those Geaux Tigers to make some damned good gumbo this weekend.
Roll Tide!!!! The road to the BCS is also known as I-59.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
November 2nd, 2011
10:53 am
Wow, now there is some intelligent comparision: the median value of homes of arrest OWS protestors who most likely live in the high cost market of NYC vs the median value of homes across the US. Why its almost like all homes in all markets should cost the same and there is not need for weekly WSJ article on what you get in different markets for an amount like $500,000.
CanThinkForMyself
November 2nd, 2011
10:53 am
The point is they took away a lane so taffic had to get worse. Even the people who used to drive in the HOV lane with 2 people can no longer do that. Is it a surprise to anyone that traffic actually got worse? It’s certainly not to me — and I drive 85 everyday. Why can Atlanta not reduce their traffic problems instead of increasing them — they do it every time. Thank goodness I’m close to retirement so I can move away.
Peadawg
November 2nd, 2011
10:53 am
Finn McCool,
Hannity says the same thing over and over every single day. He’s funny as hell to listen to on the way home from work during commercials on Project 961.
AmVet - Read my lips. No new hidden taxes.
November 2nd, 2011
10:53 am
I suspect that the historic and HUGE backlash to BoA’s proposed
fleecing plandebit card fees was propelled by the OWS voices.More and more fed up Americans are, in their best Roger Daley voices singing in unison, “We’re not gonna take it!”
And this is just the beginning…
stands for decibels
November 2nd, 2011
10:53 am
From Bruno’s link:
The Daily Caller has obtained all of this information from a source in the New York City government.
Among addresses for which information is available, single-family homes listed on those police intake forms have a median value of $305,000 — a far higher number than the $185,400 median value of owner-occupied housing units in the United States.
I’m filing this Daily Caller trollage under “that sh-t’s retarded.” Obviously, NYC metro area homes have median values higher than those of the rest of the US.
sheesh.
md
November 2nd, 2011
10:54 am
“Now we just need to be just as outraged every time they try a new scheme to make money off of the 99%.”
And once again, corps are there to make money for US……….
We are corporations…….we work there and we invest there.
They are the ones making the money FOR the 99%.
jewcowboy
November 2nd, 2011
10:54 am
I’m just curious. What is the alternative to provide at least one lane of guaranteed travel if not HOT lanes? Estimates put the trip times of the HOV lanes the same as the general purpose lanes by 2015 due to Gwinnett’s growth. Because of the huge right-of-way acquisition costs, time and logistics adding capacity is not realistic (and it would be a temporary fix anyway). And due to right-of-way acquisition costs and construction costs heavy rail is neither politically or financially possible.
So come on all of you amateur traffic engineers…share your solution on how you can create at least one lane with guaranteed trip times.
stands for decibels
November 2nd, 2011
10:54 am
And Keep, keep outa my head!
brad
November 2nd, 2011
10:54 am
Uh, cons, me-thinks your dislike of HOT lanes is class warfare. Don’t you want the wealthy “job creators” to get to the office efficiently?
Brosephus
November 2nd, 2011
10:54 am
Felton @ 9:11
All it takes is for local leadership to quit thinking in soundbites.
Peadawg
November 2nd, 2011
10:55 am
“Roll Tide!!!! The road to the BCS is also known as I-59.”
I really wish I was at that game. Being a UGA fan I don’t care who wins but damn it’s going to be crazy in Tuscaloosa this weekend. Good luck to both teams. I think this is a case of whoever has homefield wins the game so Bama will probably win. But if the game was in Death Valley on a Saturday night? Bama wouldn’t stand a chance.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
November 2nd, 2011
10:56 am
Occupy SFD’s head!
Complete Cynic
November 2nd, 2011
10:56 am
Jay,
Of course HOT lanes screw the middle class and the poor and help to make traffic worse. This was the intent in the first place.
Added capacity is now a forbidden topic for state politicians as the Feds won’t pay for it and the state folks refuse to do their jobs to pony up for what is needed. This is why we are stuck with a hodge podge, Frankenstein TSPLOST vote that no one wants.
However, liberals aren’t off the hook on this either. By constantly suing road projects under the guise of the Clean Air Act and trying to foist high density living on citizens who don’t want it, it is no wonder that we are stuck with HOT lane projects; they are the only crony contracts that the criminal politicians can give out. As a general rule, the liberals didn’t care if any road projects ever got completed; gridlock served their purposes just as well.
Unfortunately, this perfect storm of political cowardice and corruption combined with idiotic liberal social engineering will cause eventually congestion to end; people and businesses vote with their feet. Expect the Atlanta metro area to see more losses in people and jobs as corporations with half a brain get sick of the nonsense.
And Jay? I don’t know your stance on increased urban density (probably hidden one way or the other since the creation of the Dunwoody Journal Constitution), but I hope that you are not a hypocrite on this issue as well. Bemoaning additional costs to the middle and lower classes comes across as crocodile tears if your intent was to force these suckers into moving downtown in the first place.
Normal
November 2nd, 2011
10:57 am
SoCo,
Number one in number two’s home stadium? Gots to put some money down on number two…
getalife
November 2nd, 2011
10:59 am
So, I was in Dallas watching football with my Brother and he was merciless attacking me on how the Saints could lose so bad to a win less Rams team.
Then the Cowboys game came on.
Sweet karma but my Tigers will not lose to a Bama team that looked bad against a sorry Tenn. team.
md
November 2nd, 2011
10:59 am
Wonder which of the 2 teams is going to roll the other……this game is so hyped up, and I’ve seen so many hyped up games turn into blowouts. I would love to see one of those quintuple overtime games….
Paul
November 2nd, 2011
11:00 am
Finn
“More striking, though, is Hannity’s refusal to grapple with a very basic question:”
I don’t think that’s a basic question for Hannity. I’m not sure he even comprehends it. It was noted on this forum that a guest told him the individual mandate for health insurance was Republican in origin. He blew right past it. I think he was smart enough to know that would jeopardize his positions, which would have a very real effect on his income.
O’Reilly does the same thing, but he generally pauses, then says ‘nah’ and barrels on. Has done so several times with the Wall Streeters and people from the Left who tell him, ‘no, Pres Obama is not interested in making massive transfers of wealth from the rich to everyone else as you say.”
For all their education, they sure have their blinders.
Normal
November 2nd, 2011
11:01 am
Jewcowboy! Hiya!
I figure the best solution would be to build a top layer over the existing freeway. The elite get the sunshine and the rest of us get the shaft…err, shade. Plus, by building the “sunshine Lanes”, jobs will be created and paid for by the tolls levied on the “Shady Lanes”.
Brosephus
November 2nd, 2011
11:03 am
Peadawg
I think the difference in this game will be the homefield advantage. Unless LSU has been practicing their offense with silent counts, they’re gonna have a time adjusting to the crowd noise. The number of the week is 101,821, or in other words, the seating capacity at Bryant-Denny. If this game were being played in LA, I’d be sacrificing a goat every day to try to help Bama win, because nobody wins in Death Valley on a Saturday night except LSU.
Normal
I’ve put my money on Powerball. Today.
Brosephus
November 2nd, 2011
11:05 am
Sweet karma but my Tigers will not lose to a Bama team that looked bad against a sorry Tenn. team
Nope, your Tigers will lose to the powerhouse and eventual champion that is Bama!! Roll Tide!!!
jm
November 2nd, 2011
11:06 am
Normal 11:01 – double decking the interstates is the only conceivable, though expensive, solution to increase capacity
I’m a fan myself.
getalife
November 2nd, 2011
11:08 am
Bro,
There will be 102,000 silent fans shocked at the power of the LSU National Champions.
I am giddy like perry about this one
Normal
November 2nd, 2011
11:09 am
SoCo,
I put my money on Power Ball too…If I win, I guess I’ll have to become a Republican…
Peter
November 2nd, 2011
11:10 am
Normal .. funny if you win you will have to become a Republican !
Why wait you sell your Soul ……… NOW !
Normal
November 2nd, 2011
11:10 am
jm,
They double decked Nimitz Highway in Hawaii and it worked out real good. I’m a fan too.
USinUK
November 2nd, 2011
11:11 am
Adam – 10:29 – well, that would be one example, but I’ve seen loads of public companies who have started outsourcing because analysts said that their competitors were doing it – even though it wound up costing more in quality and time than if they kept the capes in house
Doggone/GA
November 2nd, 2011
11:12 am
“For all their education, they sure have their blinders”
My Father calls it “educated above their intelligence level”
FED UP
November 2nd, 2011
11:13 am
I hope every one, I mean EVERY ONE, votes DOWN this mass transit tax upcoming. GA government folks will do anything, but admit a MISTAKE they have made – you know “it would make them look stupid and bad.” DUH!! they are….
Creating a HOT/PASS lane without hardly any appropriate off/on opportunities for miles. Creating a HOT/PASS lane without adding another lane (or two) was absurd. And, of course, asking the public to pay for something they already paid for, is right up the ally of corrupt political entities. When are we as a group going to stand up and say enough is enough??? Do not vote for the 1 cent tax increase in Gwinnett (SPLOST) on November 8th – it’s still $ in their pocket even though for a different thing. Gwinnitte gov. supported this HOT/PASS with the DOT so show them you do not support them on anything that will cost you extra!! And, DO NOT vote for the mass transit tax – enough is enough – they don’t give one darn about whether or not it takes 2 hours to drive 25 miles on I-85 fir anyone – so show them you have some control – if given an opportunity to vote on anything “they have messed up” – tell them NO !!!
USinUK
November 2nd, 2011
11:14 am
kayaker – “You seem to think that business owes you a job, even in rough financial times. ”
owe me a job? no.
owe their employees a fair / moral place to work? yes.
I understand that, if a company is making losses rather than profits, that changes have to be made. I do NOT think that making a 12% profit rather than a 14% profit AS DEEMED ACCEPTABLE BY ANALYSTS is a moral justification for cutting the workforce.
md
November 2nd, 2011
11:15 am
“but I’ve seen loads of public companies who have started outsourcing because analysts said that their competitors were doing it – even though it wound up costing more in quality and time than if they kept the capes in house”
a la Delta, who has since closed their Indian call centers….consumers hold the power, but it is easier to complain than act. Personally, I must have called Delta a dozen different times in regards to that fiasco.
Finn McCool
November 2nd, 2011
11:16 am
So, what Jay is saying is that a special interest group with connections to Republican elected officials is forcing a solution on atlanta that is really just a problem they have disguised as a solution?
Republican voters have been had again? Do tell….
NA
November 2nd, 2011
11:18 am
the reason these lanes work in other places is as it probably has been said before in this long list of responses——- is there were NO new lanes added—- lanes were taken away for this.
As the person above says build a second layer of roads above I-85, then you have justification for the toll.
Where does all of this toll money go?
All that was added was some double striped lanes, a few signs with price meters in them, a group of tracking devices and a bunch of people to count money.
David Luesley
November 2nd, 2011
11:20 am
Paid for this roadway once, will not, repeat will not, pay for them again, over and over and over for extremely dubious benefits. More attempts to fleece the sheep.
Bruno
November 2nd, 2011
11:22 am
Obviously, NYC metro area homes have median values higher than those of the rest of the US.
sfd and Adam–The article states that “The arrest intake documents show that arrestees came to New York from all over the country but particularly from the Northeast.” Got any other theories??
More info about these noble protesters which you guys are so quick to throw your weight behind because they echo a populist message:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2047664/Occupy-Wall-Street-Children-1-good-time-protests.html
Aquagirl
November 2nd, 2011
11:23 am
This is a blog where we all have opinions.
Yeah, Pea, the difference is some of us think about opinions before blurting them out. Call it a bad habit, un-Republican, or whatever.
Also, you have mistaken “whacking your ill-conceived opinion” with “anger.” Asking why you’d say such a mindless thing is not anger, it’s attacking your—well, I can’t really dignify your meandering by saying it’s an idea, how about calling it a bunch of words that sorta fell out of your, um, mouth?
Now, if you want to dig your heels in and pretend there’s an actual basis for what you said and try to defend it, you get flack. Imagine that.
Anyway, like I said, it’s just passing time until Herman provides more comic relief. Apparently one of the women involved is wondering how a non-disclosure statement covers Cain’s public trashing. If that’s lifted, we won’t have to discuss the HOT lane debacle for the 10 millionth time. See—-the natives are getting restless and sliding into football trash talk. That’s a sure sign we’ve gotta manufacture our own topic since the HOT lanes are a subject of bi-partisan hate. How often does that happen here, lol?
FED UP
November 2nd, 2011
11:23 am
AMEN to “NA” – you are absolutely right – “a bunch of people to county money”…..
Again, Georgians – VOTE NO ON ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING THE GOV WANTS IN THIS STATE – “UNTIL” they start respecting you as voters, listen to you as voters, and truly “care” about you as voters……
Finn McCool
November 2nd, 2011
11:25 am
Those lanes are for the fat cats. What’s so hard to understand about that? The fee is to keep the lanes as empty as possible to reduce commute times for the wealthy.
If I had to go down town every day and I had the money in the bank, I would love those lanes – reducing my commute times both ways. “Those old lanes were getting too crowded anyway.”
Peadawg
November 2nd, 2011
11:26 am
“Now, if you want to dig your heels in and pretend there’s an actual basis for what you said and try to defend it”
If $3.30 isn’t too high for gas prices, then what is too high for you?
AmVet - Read my lips. No new hidden taxes.
November 2nd, 2011
11:31 am
Brother B, populist mesage?
Is that the new euphemism for g*ddamnwell fed up with this cr@p???
Of being sick to our stomachs of the two Americas?
Of watching corporate criminals playing with tanks? (OK, so I stole that one from that Call song.)
Of banksters being bailed out at the exact same time we in the working class are being sold out?
Of sitting around, playing dead and just taking more of the same, without a whimper?
This is a righteous stand. And it is gonna get bigger. A lot bigger.
And the fact that a few kids started this now flourishing thing is crazy good.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rxWPEdYCnI
USinUK
November 2nd, 2011
11:32 am
md – call centers, tech support, programming, etc …
the mister used to work for a company that sent a load of their programming to Mumbai which wound up costing them exactly the same amount if £££ in the time it took to fix their mistakes and address the things they weren’t able to do.
and why??? all because some numpty at S&P said that they weren’t practing “cost efficiencies” like offshoring..
oy.
stands for decibels
November 2nd, 2011
11:32 am
More info about these noble protesters
from the Daily Mail?
I’ll look at that if you’ll listen to this guy, who has interviewed OWSers just about every day for the last month and a half…
http://majority.fm/
USinUK
November 2nd, 2011
11:32 am
oh, and HI B-DOG!!!!
LTNS!!!!
Jay
November 2nd, 2011
11:33 am
militia sheets…
Bruno
November 2nd, 2011
11:33 am
Yeah, Pea, the difference is some of us think about opinions before blurting them out.
Here’s an interesting video in which someone who grew up under socialism confronts the protestors:
http://toddkinsey.com/blog/2011/10/29/soviet-citizen-confronts-occupy-wall-street-socialists/
Real thoughtful bunch, those OWS protestors.
stands for decibels
November 2nd, 2011
11:33 am
Domestic Terra sheets, bitches.
stands for decibels
November 2nd, 2011
11:34 am
uh, yeah. like jay said.
yuzeyurbrane
November 2nd, 2011
11:35 am
The Governor should remember New Coke and the recent Bank of America debit card fees debacle. You can walk away from HOT lanes as being nonsensical idea of elitists and ivory tower professors and be acclaimed the people’s hero.
Peter
November 2nd, 2011
11:35 am
Hope is not much of a Plan… is the statement Kyle makes on the GOP Blog……
I guess ” Praying for Rain”.. …..Is a Plan ?
Republican’s talk with forked tongue !
Keep Up the Good Fight!
November 2nd, 2011
11:36 am
Hmmmm… why I am sure Bruno discredited the entire Tea Party movement because a few of the protestors were or had actually received govt help or were on Medicare. So yeah I am sure that the Daller Caller has information that shows where some arrested people listed as their home addresses (of course, does that prove ownership? did they check title?). Why I am sure that statistically the analysis was sound, right? And of course the arrests in NY prove everything about protests around the world. As noted, the arrests to do represent an accurate sample of the US but a sample heavily skewed to the Northeast, where home prices are higher.
Oh wait… Why the poster forgot to put in this statement from the article cited: While it would not be fair to conclude that the arrested protesters are fully representative of a movement that is not completely understodo Why could it be that someone is trying to make claims about the entirety of the movement based on skewed information and reports…. how self-serving
godless heathen
November 2nd, 2011
11:36 am
Normal: ““Shady Lanes””
But they will have to be swapped seasonally. Well to do in the sunshine in the winter and in the shade in the summer.
St Simons - we're on Island time
November 2nd, 2011
11:36 am
getalife – agreed, LSU could beat 5 or 6 NFL teams
but then they might lose to the Dawgs in the Dome.
a Dog can dream, can’t he?
Kamchak
November 2nd, 2011
11:40 am
jm
November 2nd, 2011
8:01 am
Equally important news……
Bug Battle: An Invasive Plant Now Faces Its Own Attacker
Insects From Asia Munch on Kudzu, a Vine That Has Grown on Some
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203791904576611721227144948.html?mod=WSJ_hpp_RIGHTTopCarousel_1
The rest of the story: But the bug is also chewing up soybean stalks, reducing some yields recently by as much as a quarter, according to entomologists at the University of Georgia.
“Disappearing kudzu is a cultural problem,” says John Shelton Reed, a sociologist and essayist on Southern life. “But disappearing soybeans is an economic problem.”
Losing a quarter of the soybean crop is something to smile about?
Do you even read past the headlines?
Aquagirl
November 2nd, 2011
11:47 am
If $3.30 isn’t too high for gas prices, then what is too high for you?
More than it costs to build and maintain roads—that’s what’s too high for me.
If it costs too much to build and maintain our current road system, we can’t prop it up with gambling or cigarette taxes or HOT lane fees or the flavor of the moment dodge.
Anyway…are you circling back around to your “I don’t think we should pay for it, according to me, so we need a magic money machine” ideas? Because I’d really rather be laughing at Herman’s hissy fit on the teevee, it’s far more entertaining. Unlike you, he’s providing new fodder. I think he actually said “no means NO,” without the least clue he’s soaking in the irony.
Bruno
November 2nd, 2011
11:49 am
Why I am sure that statistically the analysis was sound, right? And of course the arrests in NY prove everything about protests around the world.
Keep–I never represented the article as being anything more than it states it is. For some reason, you can’t accept the information which it contains.
The bottom line is that the OWS protest is a microcosm of liberalism in this country–A lot of noise and heat, but no light. If the protestors are unhappy with the government bailing out the banks, they need to move the protest down to Washington. In case you forgot, I, along with other hard-core conservatives, opposed the bank bailouts. In fact, here on this blog, it is the Libs who like to hold up the bank bailouts as one of Obama’s shining successes. So, in the end, you guys are complaining about your own behavior, but somehow lack the self-awareness to realize it.
Jay
November 2nd, 2011
11:56 am
“The bottom line is that the OWS protest is a microcosm of liberalism in this country”
Bruno, you do peddle some nonsense, don’t you?
Matt P
November 2nd, 2011
12:00 pm
“In other cities, she points out, it took some time before motorists got used to the idea and began to use HOT lanes regularly.” This is a straight up mugging. Right now motorists are refusing to give their wallets to the companies that profit from the HOT lanes. So the beatings will continue.
Say, that’s an awfully nice family dinner you’ve got planned there. It’d be a real shame if you something happened to it – like you were stuck in traffic for an hour longer than usual and just missed it.
TruthBe
November 2nd, 2011
12:01 pm
Criminals and Crooks all of them. Remember the contact we had with them about Ga400.
The tolls were to be removed after the 20 years time period in the legal document. Also it was calulated to be paid in full at the end of it’s cycle. There wasn’t suppost to have any of it’s funds used for any other purpose but to operate it and pay off it’s debt. It had a “Sundown Law” in the contact. Now it’s permanent. Well they broke the legal contact with the Citizens and Drivers of Ga400. Now they want move money for more toll roads and they want us to trust them. Bull$hit. Where is the outcry about them breaking the contact therefore breaking the law and trust with the taxpayers and customers of Ga400?
TruthBe
November 2nd, 2011
12:06 pm
Jay ever the defending mouthpiece for the liberal left-wing progressive democrats.
Bruno
November 2nd, 2011
12:07 pm
Bruno, you do peddle some nonsense, don’t you?
Do you deny that TARP is held up as being one of the shining successes of the Obama administration?? In fact, I see comments here nearly daily stating how Obama “saved” the free world from financial collapse. Then Obama turns around and stands in solidarity with the OWS crowd who list the bank bailouts as one of their biggest grievances. You don’t see any disconnect here??
TruthBe
November 2nd, 2011
12:16 pm
Obama = LIAR It’s plain and simple.
Ringo
November 2nd, 2011
12:18 pm
I F*****NG LOVE THE HOT LANE. Watch me whizz by you in my Benz. Step your game up haters!
Peter
November 2nd, 2011
12:25 pm
Hey Bruno.. How does America pay for the (2) Bush Wars and his debt ?
TruthBe
November 2nd, 2011
12:29 pm
Peter, By selling Obama back to Kenya.
Peter
November 2nd, 2011
12:33 pm
HA HA HA TruthBe..
I guess like in Georgia………We should “Pray ” the debt away … you know……
The Republican way !
Paddy O
November 2nd, 2011
12:34 pm
due to the fact that the hot lanes were NOT new lanes, but converted HOV lanes, and even the HOV lanes I believe were previously regular traffic lanes, the HOT lanes are crap. Designed to get high earners to work faster – but even they are just getting billed for something that does not provide benefit. Ms. Dodd is the new face of the emporer without clothes. She needs to go to California where people might actually believe her BS does NOT stink.
Paddy O
November 2nd, 2011
12:35 pm
Obama is just inept. Many of the folks who vote for him mimic him.
Peter
November 2nd, 2011
12:39 pm
Obama is just inept. HA HA HA. well the second choice of first looser was….. MC Old And Palin. HA HA HA !
Please and what are Republican’s doing to help America in Congress ?
Another talking head Paddy O….. By the way Paddy O how does America pay for the Bush War debt ?
Joe Hussein Mama
November 2nd, 2011
12:52 pm
Bruno — “The bottom line is that the OWS protest is a microcosm of liberalism in this country–A lot of noise and heat, but no light. If the protestors are unhappy with the government bailing out the banks, they need to move the protest down to Washington.”
I’m sure you said as much about the Tea Party protests, Bruno.
“In case you forgot, I, along with other hard-core conservatives, opposed the bank bailouts. In fact, here on this blog, it is the Libs who like to hold up the bank bailouts as one of Obama’s shining successes.”
I call shenanigans.
Liberals on this blog and others refer to the STIMULUS as one of Obama’s shining successes. It didn’t get approved on his watch, but he had to manage and oversee it.
I challenge you to show me more than one liberal on this blog who has called the *bank bailouts* a success creditable to President Obama.
“So, in the end, you guys are complaining about your own behavior, but somehow lack the self-awareness to realize it.”
I don’t think so. I think you’ve misrepresented the positions of others. Whether that was accidental and mistaken or deliberate and dishonest, I can’t say.
Peter
November 2nd, 2011
1:04 pm
Well Joe Hussein Mama . the bailouts were a bush invention for starters.
Citi Corp and other banks stock, actually became a profit in trading for the US Government….. did you notice that ?
Joe Hussein Mama
November 2nd, 2011
1:15 pm
Peter — you seem to have me confused with someone else.
“Well Joe Hussein Mama . the bailouts were a bush invention for starters.”
I know that. I didn’t say otherwise.
“Citi Corp and other banks stock, actually became a profit in trading for the US Government….. did you notice that ?”
Yup. Noticed that too.
williebkind
November 2nd, 2011
1:20 pm
I hope they add another million people in Atlanta! Soon those lanes will open up as those who get real thirsty go looking for water. I own my own well I guess I could bottle it and sell it there for $5 a bottle– maybe more. Of course it would only be 10z bottles.
Ron
November 2nd, 2011
1:29 pm
I think everyone has missed the point about HOT lanes – They give you a way to bypass congestion by paying to ride in an empty (or near) empty lane. They can in no way significantly reduce traffic in the other lanes.
Rock Gaines
November 2nd, 2011
2:06 pm
Way too much belly aching over something that is not going to change. I just got back from central Florida where there are many toll roads. I was in Miami earlier this year where they have the same HOT lane system.
Get over it, Atlanta. Try car pools, van pools, or Xpress bus – if you can get over your propensity to be resistant to any and all change.
If metro Atlanta and the state of Georgia wasn’t so resistant to change, we might have commuter rail and expanded MARTA rail service by now. Those plans have been around for years. Now we’re paying for the lack of investment in mass transit with extra time in traffic and lost productivity because of it.
Adam
November 2nd, 2011
2:33 pm
kayaker: It was BOA customers who threatened to move their accounts if the fee was not dropped
Just who do you think the BoA customers are (or in the case of those that left, were)?
Adam
November 2nd, 2011
2:35 pm
Bruno: You have posted an article that has pictures and one paragraph. How exactly am I supposed to take that as anything more than another ringer being exposed?
Adam
November 2nd, 2011
3:25 pm
And btw Bruno, if there really are 1%er children at the protests, they will leave and run home as soon as it gets cold. So I’m not particularly worried about plants.
Paddy O
November 2nd, 2011
3:31 pm
Peter – how else do you pay for debt? Taxes. Either NOW or later. Historically, war debt was paid off with bonds. But, we now pay for the gov’t daily operations as conceived by the liberal cabal with bonds. Obama looks seems to see the US $$ and thinks he is playing monopoly. Why forgive debt for college students? They too stupid to use their degree to earn $$? Or, just increasing the breadth of the nanny state to include the elite, or the faux elite?
Paddy O
November 2nd, 2011
3:33 pm
TARP is owned by Bush, Paulsen & Geithner. It is a betrayal of the free market & simply welfare for corporations. Democrats supported, as dumb as they are.
TruthBe
November 2nd, 2011
8:19 pm
Criminals and Crooks all of them. Remember the contact we had with them about Ga400.
The tolls were to be removed after the 20 years time period in the legal document. Also it was calulated to be paid in full at the end of it’s cycle. There wasn’t suppost to have any of it’s funds used for any other purpose but to operate it and pay off it’s debt. It had a “Sundown Law” in the contact. Now it’s permanent. Well they broke the legal contact with the Citizens and Drivers of Ga400. Now they want move money for more toll roads and they want us to trust them. Bull$hit. Where is the outcry about them breaking the contact therefore breaking the law and trust with the taxpayers and customers of Ga400?
mcs
November 4th, 2011
9:18 pm
It shows that I lot of people were violating the HOV restriction
Watchful Eyes in Georgia
November 6th, 2011
11:58 pm
Not using them, never will. I’ll bet most people do not have 5k of disposable income to hand back to the state every year