Getting to the truth about HOT-lane operations
The Georgia Public Policy Foundation, an Atlanta-based free-market think tank, wields a lot of influence with the state’s conservative leadership. The foundation has also been a leading advocate of public and private toll-road projects, including the controversial I-85 HOT-lane conversion.
In an article headlined “State must ensure Georgians warm up to HOT lanes,” GPPF vice president Benita Dodd pleads for patience from commuters and politicians alike, saying it’s much too early to proclaim the I-85 project a failure. In other cities, she points out, it took some time before motorists got used to the idea and began to use HOT lanes regularly.
Her point is valid. When Ga. 400 first opened, Atlanta media outlets, including this newspaper, ran a lot of stories pointing out that very few people were using the highway. That situation changed pretty quickly as commuters changed their travel patterns.
To bolster public patience, Dodd cites the example of State Route 91 in southern California. After HOT lanes opened on that highly congested route, Dodd writes, toll-paying commuters not only saved 30 minutes on a 10-mile trip, “Rush-hour speeds in the regular lanes increased by 17 mph and peak-period congestion in the morning was reduced by over an hour.”
That does sound highly encouraging — a 17-mph increase in the general lanes! Unfortunately, it has not exactly been the experience of commuters in the I-85 corridor, where motorists in the regular lanes complain that commutes have gotten considerably longer. Why has our experience been so different?
Well, here in Georgia, the two new HOT lanes — one in each direction — were carved out of existing interstate, pushing traffic into the remaining lanes. In California, traffic flow improved because four additional travel lanes — two in each direction — were built in the median of SR 91 as HOT lanes. In other words, significant new capacity — not HOT-lane technology — accounted for the improvement cited by Dodd. (By the way, that improvement proved temporary, largely disappearing as additional traffic was drawn by that additional capacity.)
GPPF has also tried to dispel the notion of HOT lanes as “Lexus lanes,” which it defines as “an elitist way to enable wealthier, paying motorists to bypass the congestion that the unwashed masses must endure.” Again citing California’s experience, GPPF claims that HOT-lane users on SR 91 were no different demographically than those using regular lanes.
The Reason Foundation, the libertarian think tank that has championed HOT lanes on the national level, makes similar claims, arguing that “studies of the 91 Express Lanes indicate that use increases slightly with income group.” However, the studies cited by Reason and GPPF directly contradict what they claim.
According to those studies, commuters with incomes above $100,000 were more than twice as likely to use the toll lanes frequently than those making less than $60,000. That is not a “slight increase” among income groups. The studies also found that as fares rose higher and higher, usage by middle-income commuters dropped significantly.
“The significant decline in reported toll lane use by commuters in the $40-60K category suggests that these middle-income commuters have been unusually sensitive to the toll increases, and are less willing to pay tolls despite the worsening traffic congestion in the corridor,” the study concluded.
That trend could be important to travelers in the I-85 corridor as that project matures, usage increases and tolls are raised to fend off congestion. (Today, the highest toll collected on SR 91 is $9.85 for the 10-mile trip, more than double the highest fare of 10 years ago.)
Interestingly, that study, led by Edward Sullivan of Cal Poly State University, also found that SR 91 commuters consistently overestimate how much time they save by using the toll lanes, overshooting the mark by anywhere from five to 30 minutes a trip.
“It suggests that making available accurate data on actual toll lane time savings might result in reduced toll lane use,” the writers warn. In other words, it’s not the deal it may appear to be, although you may already know that.
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383 comments Add your comment
Peadawg
November 2nd, 2011
10:51 am
Adam, did OWS also have to do w/ Netflix backtracking on some of its changes? Or was it the loss of almost a million customers and stocks going from $300/share -> $70/share?
Brosephus
November 2nd, 2011
10:52 am
DDR
If you’re still around, the Tide has already slaughtered both a hog and a gator. You do realize what that means, right? We only need to beat the seasonings out of those Geaux Tigers to make some damned good gumbo this weekend.
Roll Tide!!!! The road to the BCS is also known as I-59.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
November 2nd, 2011
10:53 am
Wow, now there is some intelligent comparision: the median value of homes of arrest OWS protestors who most likely live in the high cost market of NYC vs the median value of homes across the US. Why its almost like all homes in all markets should cost the same and there is not need for weekly WSJ article on what you get in different markets for an amount like $500,000.
CanThinkForMyself
November 2nd, 2011
10:53 am
The point is they took away a lane so taffic had to get worse. Even the people who used to drive in the HOV lane with 2 people can no longer do that. Is it a surprise to anyone that traffic actually got worse? It’s certainly not to me — and I drive 85 everyday. Why can Atlanta not reduce their traffic problems instead of increasing them — they do it every time. Thank goodness I’m close to retirement so I can move away.
Peadawg
November 2nd, 2011
10:53 am
Finn McCool,
Hannity says the same thing over and over every single day. He’s funny as hell to listen to on the way home from work during commercials on Project 961.
AmVet - Read my lips. No new hidden taxes.
November 2nd, 2011
10:53 am
I suspect that the historic and HUGE backlash to BoA’s proposed
fleecing plandebit card fees was propelled by the OWS voices.More and more fed up Americans are, in their best Roger Daley voices singing in unison, “We’re not gonna take it!”
And this is just the beginning…
stands for decibels
November 2nd, 2011
10:53 am
From Bruno’s link:
The Daily Caller has obtained all of this information from a source in the New York City government.
Among addresses for which information is available, single-family homes listed on those police intake forms have a median value of $305,000 — a far higher number than the $185,400 median value of owner-occupied housing units in the United States.
I’m filing this Daily Caller trollage under “that sh-t’s retarded.” Obviously, NYC metro area homes have median values higher than those of the rest of the US.
sheesh.
md
November 2nd, 2011
10:54 am
“Now we just need to be just as outraged every time they try a new scheme to make money off of the 99%.”
And once again, corps are there to make money for US……….
We are corporations…….we work there and we invest there.
They are the ones making the money FOR the 99%.
jewcowboy
November 2nd, 2011
10:54 am
I’m just curious. What is the alternative to provide at least one lane of guaranteed travel if not HOT lanes? Estimates put the trip times of the HOV lanes the same as the general purpose lanes by 2015 due to Gwinnett’s growth. Because of the huge right-of-way acquisition costs, time and logistics adding capacity is not realistic (and it would be a temporary fix anyway). And due to right-of-way acquisition costs and construction costs heavy rail is neither politically or financially possible.
So come on all of you amateur traffic engineers…share your solution on how you can create at least one lane with guaranteed trip times.
stands for decibels
November 2nd, 2011
10:54 am
And Keep, keep outa my head!
brad
November 2nd, 2011
10:54 am
Uh, cons, me-thinks your dislike of HOT lanes is class warfare. Don’t you want the wealthy “job creators” to get to the office efficiently?
Brosephus
November 2nd, 2011
10:54 am
Felton @ 9:11
All it takes is for local leadership to quit thinking in soundbites.
Peadawg
November 2nd, 2011
10:55 am
“Roll Tide!!!! The road to the BCS is also known as I-59.”
I really wish I was at that game. Being a UGA fan I don’t care who wins but damn it’s going to be crazy in Tuscaloosa this weekend. Good luck to both teams. I think this is a case of whoever has homefield wins the game so Bama will probably win. But if the game was in Death Valley on a Saturday night? Bama wouldn’t stand a chance.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
November 2nd, 2011
10:56 am
Occupy SFD’s head!
Complete Cynic
November 2nd, 2011
10:56 am
Jay,
Of course HOT lanes screw the middle class and the poor and help to make traffic worse. This was the intent in the first place.
Added capacity is now a forbidden topic for state politicians as the Feds won’t pay for it and the state folks refuse to do their jobs to pony up for what is needed. This is why we are stuck with a hodge podge, Frankenstein TSPLOST vote that no one wants.
However, liberals aren’t off the hook on this either. By constantly suing road projects under the guise of the Clean Air Act and trying to foist high density living on citizens who don’t want it, it is no wonder that we are stuck with HOT lane projects; they are the only crony contracts that the criminal politicians can give out. As a general rule, the liberals didn’t care if any road projects ever got completed; gridlock served their purposes just as well.
Unfortunately, this perfect storm of political cowardice and corruption combined with idiotic liberal social engineering will cause eventually congestion to end; people and businesses vote with their feet. Expect the Atlanta metro area to see more losses in people and jobs as corporations with half a brain get sick of the nonsense.
And Jay? I don’t know your stance on increased urban density (probably hidden one way or the other since the creation of the Dunwoody Journal Constitution), but I hope that you are not a hypocrite on this issue as well. Bemoaning additional costs to the middle and lower classes comes across as crocodile tears if your intent was to force these suckers into moving downtown in the first place.
Normal
November 2nd, 2011
10:57 am
SoCo,
Number one in number two’s home stadium? Gots to put some money down on number two…
getalife
November 2nd, 2011
10:59 am
So, I was in Dallas watching football with my Brother and he was merciless attacking me on how the Saints could lose so bad to a win less Rams team.
Then the Cowboys game came on.
Sweet karma but my Tigers will not lose to a Bama team that looked bad against a sorry Tenn. team.
md
November 2nd, 2011
10:59 am
Wonder which of the 2 teams is going to roll the other……this game is so hyped up, and I’ve seen so many hyped up games turn into blowouts. I would love to see one of those quintuple overtime games….
Paul
November 2nd, 2011
11:00 am
Finn
“More striking, though, is Hannity’s refusal to grapple with a very basic question:”
I don’t think that’s a basic question for Hannity. I’m not sure he even comprehends it. It was noted on this forum that a guest told him the individual mandate for health insurance was Republican in origin. He blew right past it. I think he was smart enough to know that would jeopardize his positions, which would have a very real effect on his income.
O’Reilly does the same thing, but he generally pauses, then says ‘nah’ and barrels on. Has done so several times with the Wall Streeters and people from the Left who tell him, ‘no, Pres Obama is not interested in making massive transfers of wealth from the rich to everyone else as you say.”
For all their education, they sure have their blinders.
Normal
November 2nd, 2011
11:01 am
Jewcowboy! Hiya!
I figure the best solution would be to build a top layer over the existing freeway. The elite get the sunshine and the rest of us get the shaft…err, shade. Plus, by building the “sunshine Lanes”, jobs will be created and paid for by the tolls levied on the “Shady Lanes”.
Brosephus
November 2nd, 2011
11:03 am
Peadawg
I think the difference in this game will be the homefield advantage. Unless LSU has been practicing their offense with silent counts, they’re gonna have a time adjusting to the crowd noise. The number of the week is 101,821, or in other words, the seating capacity at Bryant-Denny. If this game were being played in LA, I’d be sacrificing a goat every day to try to help Bama win, because nobody wins in Death Valley on a Saturday night except LSU.
Normal
I’ve put my money on Powerball. Today.
Brosephus
November 2nd, 2011
11:05 am
Sweet karma but my Tigers will not lose to a Bama team that looked bad against a sorry Tenn. team
Nope, your Tigers will lose to the powerhouse and eventual champion that is Bama!! Roll Tide!!!
jm
November 2nd, 2011
11:06 am
Normal 11:01 – double decking the interstates is the only conceivable, though expensive, solution to increase capacity
I’m a fan myself.
getalife
November 2nd, 2011
11:08 am
Bro,
There will be 102,000 silent fans shocked at the power of the LSU National Champions.
I am giddy like perry about this one
Normal
November 2nd, 2011
11:09 am
SoCo,
I put my money on Power Ball too…If I win, I guess I’ll have to become a Republican…
Peter
November 2nd, 2011
11:10 am
Normal .. funny if you win you will have to become a Republican !
Why wait you sell your Soul ……… NOW !
Normal
November 2nd, 2011
11:10 am
jm,
They double decked Nimitz Highway in Hawaii and it worked out real good. I’m a fan too.
USinUK
November 2nd, 2011
11:11 am
Adam – 10:29 – well, that would be one example, but I’ve seen loads of public companies who have started outsourcing because analysts said that their competitors were doing it – even though it wound up costing more in quality and time than if they kept the capes in house
Doggone/GA
November 2nd, 2011
11:12 am
“For all their education, they sure have their blinders”
My Father calls it “educated above their intelligence level”
FED UP
November 2nd, 2011
11:13 am
I hope every one, I mean EVERY ONE, votes DOWN this mass transit tax upcoming. GA government folks will do anything, but admit a MISTAKE they have made – you know “it would make them look stupid and bad.” DUH!! they are….
Creating a HOT/PASS lane without hardly any appropriate off/on opportunities for miles. Creating a HOT/PASS lane without adding another lane (or two) was absurd. And, of course, asking the public to pay for something they already paid for, is right up the ally of corrupt political entities. When are we as a group going to stand up and say enough is enough??? Do not vote for the 1 cent tax increase in Gwinnett (SPLOST) on November 8th – it’s still $ in their pocket even though for a different thing. Gwinnitte gov. supported this HOT/PASS with the DOT so show them you do not support them on anything that will cost you extra!! And, DO NOT vote for the mass transit tax – enough is enough – they don’t give one darn about whether or not it takes 2 hours to drive 25 miles on I-85 fir anyone – so show them you have some control – if given an opportunity to vote on anything “they have messed up” – tell them NO !!!
USinUK
November 2nd, 2011
11:14 am
kayaker – “You seem to think that business owes you a job, even in rough financial times. ”
owe me a job? no.
owe their employees a fair / moral place to work? yes.
I understand that, if a company is making losses rather than profits, that changes have to be made. I do NOT think that making a 12% profit rather than a 14% profit AS DEEMED ACCEPTABLE BY ANALYSTS is a moral justification for cutting the workforce.
md
November 2nd, 2011
11:15 am
“but I’ve seen loads of public companies who have started outsourcing because analysts said that their competitors were doing it – even though it wound up costing more in quality and time than if they kept the capes in house”
a la Delta, who has since closed their Indian call centers….consumers hold the power, but it is easier to complain than act. Personally, I must have called Delta a dozen different times in regards to that fiasco.
Finn McCool
November 2nd, 2011
11:16 am
So, what Jay is saying is that a special interest group with connections to Republican elected officials is forcing a solution on atlanta that is really just a problem they have disguised as a solution?
Republican voters have been had again? Do tell….
NA
November 2nd, 2011
11:18 am
the reason these lanes work in other places is as it probably has been said before in this long list of responses——- is there were NO new lanes added—- lanes were taken away for this.
As the person above says build a second layer of roads above I-85, then you have justification for the toll.
Where does all of this toll money go?
All that was added was some double striped lanes, a few signs with price meters in them, a group of tracking devices and a bunch of people to count money.
David Luesley
November 2nd, 2011
11:20 am
Paid for this roadway once, will not, repeat will not, pay for them again, over and over and over for extremely dubious benefits. More attempts to fleece the sheep.
Bruno
November 2nd, 2011
11:22 am
Obviously, NYC metro area homes have median values higher than those of the rest of the US.
sfd and Adam–The article states that “The arrest intake documents show that arrestees came to New York from all over the country but particularly from the Northeast.” Got any other theories??
More info about these noble protesters which you guys are so quick to throw your weight behind because they echo a populist message:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2047664/Occupy-Wall-Street-Children-1-good-time-protests.html
Aquagirl
November 2nd, 2011
11:23 am
This is a blog where we all have opinions.
Yeah, Pea, the difference is some of us think about opinions before blurting them out. Call it a bad habit, un-Republican, or whatever.
Also, you have mistaken “whacking your ill-conceived opinion” with “anger.” Asking why you’d say such a mindless thing is not anger, it’s attacking your—well, I can’t really dignify your meandering by saying it’s an idea, how about calling it a bunch of words that sorta fell out of your, um, mouth?
Now, if you want to dig your heels in and pretend there’s an actual basis for what you said and try to defend it, you get flack. Imagine that.
Anyway, like I said, it’s just passing time until Herman provides more comic relief. Apparently one of the women involved is wondering how a non-disclosure statement covers Cain’s public trashing. If that’s lifted, we won’t have to discuss the HOT lane debacle for the 10 millionth time. See—-the natives are getting restless and sliding into football trash talk. That’s a sure sign we’ve gotta manufacture our own topic since the HOT lanes are a subject of bi-partisan hate. How often does that happen here, lol?
FED UP
November 2nd, 2011
11:23 am
AMEN to “NA” – you are absolutely right – “a bunch of people to county money”…..
Again, Georgians – VOTE NO ON ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING THE GOV WANTS IN THIS STATE – “UNTIL” they start respecting you as voters, listen to you as voters, and truly “care” about you as voters……
Finn McCool
November 2nd, 2011
11:25 am
Those lanes are for the fat cats. What’s so hard to understand about that? The fee is to keep the lanes as empty as possible to reduce commute times for the wealthy.
If I had to go down town every day and I had the money in the bank, I would love those lanes – reducing my commute times both ways. “Those old lanes were getting too crowded anyway.”
Peadawg
November 2nd, 2011
11:26 am
“Now, if you want to dig your heels in and pretend there’s an actual basis for what you said and try to defend it”
If $3.30 isn’t too high for gas prices, then what is too high for you?
AmVet - Read my lips. No new hidden taxes.
November 2nd, 2011
11:31 am
Brother B, populist mesage?
Is that the new euphemism for g*ddamnwell fed up with this cr@p???
Of being sick to our stomachs of the two Americas?
Of watching corporate criminals playing with tanks? (OK, so I stole that one from that Call song.)
Of banksters being bailed out at the exact same time we in the working class are being sold out?
Of sitting around, playing dead and just taking more of the same, without a whimper?
This is a righteous stand. And it is gonna get bigger. A lot bigger.
And the fact that a few kids started this now flourishing thing is crazy good.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rxWPEdYCnI
USinUK
November 2nd, 2011
11:32 am
md – call centers, tech support, programming, etc …
the mister used to work for a company that sent a load of their programming to Mumbai which wound up costing them exactly the same amount if £££ in the time it took to fix their mistakes and address the things they weren’t able to do.
and why??? all because some numpty at S&P said that they weren’t practing “cost efficiencies” like offshoring..
oy.
stands for decibels
November 2nd, 2011
11:32 am
More info about these noble protesters
from the Daily Mail?
I’ll look at that if you’ll listen to this guy, who has interviewed OWSers just about every day for the last month and a half…
http://majority.fm/
USinUK
November 2nd, 2011
11:32 am
oh, and HI B-DOG!!!!
LTNS!!!!
Jay
November 2nd, 2011
11:33 am
militia sheets…
Bruno
November 2nd, 2011
11:33 am
Yeah, Pea, the difference is some of us think about opinions before blurting them out.
Here’s an interesting video in which someone who grew up under socialism confronts the protestors:
http://toddkinsey.com/blog/2011/10/29/soviet-citizen-confronts-occupy-wall-street-socialists/
Real thoughtful bunch, those OWS protestors.
stands for decibels
November 2nd, 2011
11:33 am
Domestic Terra sheets, bitches.
stands for decibels
November 2nd, 2011
11:34 am
uh, yeah. like jay said.
yuzeyurbrane
November 2nd, 2011
11:35 am
The Governor should remember New Coke and the recent Bank of America debit card fees debacle. You can walk away from HOT lanes as being nonsensical idea of elitists and ivory tower professors and be acclaimed the people’s hero.
Peter
November 2nd, 2011
11:35 am
Hope is not much of a Plan… is the statement Kyle makes on the GOP Blog……
I guess ” Praying for Rain”.. …..Is a Plan ?
Republican’s talk with forked tongue !
Keep Up the Good Fight!
November 2nd, 2011
11:36 am
Hmmmm… why I am sure Bruno discredited the entire Tea Party movement because a few of the protestors were or had actually received govt help or were on Medicare. So yeah I am sure that the Daller Caller has information that shows where some arrested people listed as their home addresses (of course, does that prove ownership? did they check title?). Why I am sure that statistically the analysis was sound, right? And of course the arrests in NY prove everything about protests around the world. As noted, the arrests to do represent an accurate sample of the US but a sample heavily skewed to the Northeast, where home prices are higher.
Oh wait… Why the poster forgot to put in this statement from the article cited: While it would not be fair to conclude that the arrested protesters are fully representative of a movement that is not completely understodo Why could it be that someone is trying to make claims about the entirety of the movement based on skewed information and reports…. how self-serving
godless heathen
November 2nd, 2011
11:36 am
Normal: ““Shady Lanes””
But they will have to be swapped seasonally. Well to do in the sunshine in the winter and in the shade in the summer.
St Simons - we're on Island time
November 2nd, 2011
11:36 am
getalife – agreed, LSU could beat 5 or 6 NFL teams
but then they might lose to the Dawgs in the Dome.
a Dog can dream, can’t he?
Kamchak
November 2nd, 2011
11:40 am
jm
November 2nd, 2011
8:01 am
Equally important news……
Bug Battle: An Invasive Plant Now Faces Its Own Attacker
Insects From Asia Munch on Kudzu, a Vine That Has Grown on Some
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203791904576611721227144948.html?mod=WSJ_hpp_RIGHTTopCarousel_1
The rest of the story: But the bug is also chewing up soybean stalks, reducing some yields recently by as much as a quarter, according to entomologists at the University of Georgia.
“Disappearing kudzu is a cultural problem,” says John Shelton Reed, a sociologist and essayist on Southern life. “But disappearing soybeans is an economic problem.”
Losing a quarter of the soybean crop is something to smile about?
Do you even read past the headlines?
Aquagirl
November 2nd, 2011
11:47 am
If $3.30 isn’t too high for gas prices, then what is too high for you?
More than it costs to build and maintain roads—that’s what’s too high for me.
If it costs too much to build and maintain our current road system, we can’t prop it up with gambling or cigarette taxes or HOT lane fees or the flavor of the moment dodge.
Anyway…are you circling back around to your “I don’t think we should pay for it, according to me, so we need a magic money machine” ideas? Because I’d really rather be laughing at Herman’s hissy fit on the teevee, it’s far more entertaining. Unlike you, he’s providing new fodder. I think he actually said “no means NO,” without the least clue he’s soaking in the irony.
Bruno
November 2nd, 2011
11:49 am
Why I am sure that statistically the analysis was sound, right? And of course the arrests in NY prove everything about protests around the world.
Keep–I never represented the article as being anything more than it states it is. For some reason, you can’t accept the information which it contains.
The bottom line is that the OWS protest is a microcosm of liberalism in this country–A lot of noise and heat, but no light. If the protestors are unhappy with the government bailing out the banks, they need to move the protest down to Washington. In case you forgot, I, along with other hard-core conservatives, opposed the bank bailouts. In fact, here on this blog, it is the Libs who like to hold up the bank bailouts as one of Obama’s shining successes. So, in the end, you guys are complaining about your own behavior, but somehow lack the self-awareness to realize it.
Jay
November 2nd, 2011
11:56 am
“The bottom line is that the OWS protest is a microcosm of liberalism in this country”
Bruno, you do peddle some nonsense, don’t you?
Matt P
November 2nd, 2011
12:00 pm
“In other cities, she points out, it took some time before motorists got used to the idea and began to use HOT lanes regularly.” This is a straight up mugging. Right now motorists are refusing to give their wallets to the companies that profit from the HOT lanes. So the beatings will continue.
Say, that’s an awfully nice family dinner you’ve got planned there. It’d be a real shame if you something happened to it – like you were stuck in traffic for an hour longer than usual and just missed it.
TruthBe
November 2nd, 2011
12:01 pm
Criminals and Crooks all of them. Remember the contact we had with them about Ga400.
The tolls were to be removed after the 20 years time period in the legal document. Also it was calulated to be paid in full at the end of it’s cycle. There wasn’t suppost to have any of it’s funds used for any other purpose but to operate it and pay off it’s debt. It had a “Sundown Law” in the contact. Now it’s permanent. Well they broke the legal contact with the Citizens and Drivers of Ga400. Now they want move money for more toll roads and they want us to trust them. Bull$hit. Where is the outcry about them breaking the contact therefore breaking the law and trust with the taxpayers and customers of Ga400?
TruthBe
November 2nd, 2011
12:06 pm
Jay ever the defending mouthpiece for the liberal left-wing progressive democrats.
Bruno
November 2nd, 2011
12:07 pm
Bruno, you do peddle some nonsense, don’t you?
Do you deny that TARP is held up as being one of the shining successes of the Obama administration?? In fact, I see comments here nearly daily stating how Obama “saved” the free world from financial collapse. Then Obama turns around and stands in solidarity with the OWS crowd who list the bank bailouts as one of their biggest grievances. You don’t see any disconnect here??
TruthBe
November 2nd, 2011
12:16 pm
Obama = LIAR It’s plain and simple.
Ringo
November 2nd, 2011
12:18 pm
I F*****NG LOVE THE HOT LANE. Watch me whizz by you in my Benz. Step your game up haters!
Peter
November 2nd, 2011
12:25 pm
Hey Bruno.. How does America pay for the (2) Bush Wars and his debt ?
TruthBe
November 2nd, 2011
12:29 pm
Peter, By selling Obama back to Kenya.
Peter
November 2nd, 2011
12:33 pm
HA HA HA TruthBe..
I guess like in Georgia………We should “Pray ” the debt away … you know……
The Republican way !
Paddy O
November 2nd, 2011
12:34 pm
due to the fact that the hot lanes were NOT new lanes, but converted HOV lanes, and even the HOV lanes I believe were previously regular traffic lanes, the HOT lanes are crap. Designed to get high earners to work faster – but even they are just getting billed for something that does not provide benefit. Ms. Dodd is the new face of the emporer without clothes. She needs to go to California where people might actually believe her BS does NOT stink.
Paddy O
November 2nd, 2011
12:35 pm
Obama is just inept. Many of the folks who vote for him mimic him.
Peter
November 2nd, 2011
12:39 pm
Obama is just inept. HA HA HA. well the second choice of first looser was….. MC Old And Palin. HA HA HA !
Please and what are Republican’s doing to help America in Congress ?
Another talking head Paddy O….. By the way Paddy O how does America pay for the Bush War debt ?
Joe Hussein Mama
November 2nd, 2011
12:52 pm
Bruno — “The bottom line is that the OWS protest is a microcosm of liberalism in this country–A lot of noise and heat, but no light. If the protestors are unhappy with the government bailing out the banks, they need to move the protest down to Washington.”
I’m sure you said as much about the Tea Party protests, Bruno.
“In case you forgot, I, along with other hard-core conservatives, opposed the bank bailouts. In fact, here on this blog, it is the Libs who like to hold up the bank bailouts as one of Obama’s shining successes.”
I call shenanigans.
Liberals on this blog and others refer to the STIMULUS as one of Obama’s shining successes. It didn’t get approved on his watch, but he had to manage and oversee it.
I challenge you to show me more than one liberal on this blog who has called the *bank bailouts* a success creditable to President Obama.
“So, in the end, you guys are complaining about your own behavior, but somehow lack the self-awareness to realize it.”
I don’t think so. I think you’ve misrepresented the positions of others. Whether that was accidental and mistaken or deliberate and dishonest, I can’t say.
Peter
November 2nd, 2011
1:04 pm
Well Joe Hussein Mama . the bailouts were a bush invention for starters.
Citi Corp and other banks stock, actually became a profit in trading for the US Government….. did you notice that ?
Joe Hussein Mama
November 2nd, 2011
1:15 pm
Peter — you seem to have me confused with someone else.
“Well Joe Hussein Mama . the bailouts were a bush invention for starters.”
I know that. I didn’t say otherwise.
“Citi Corp and other banks stock, actually became a profit in trading for the US Government….. did you notice that ?”
Yup. Noticed that too.
williebkind
November 2nd, 2011
1:20 pm
I hope they add another million people in Atlanta! Soon those lanes will open up as those who get real thirsty go looking for water. I own my own well I guess I could bottle it and sell it there for $5 a bottle– maybe more. Of course it would only be 10z bottles.
Ron
November 2nd, 2011
1:29 pm
I think everyone has missed the point about HOT lanes – They give you a way to bypass congestion by paying to ride in an empty (or near) empty lane. They can in no way significantly reduce traffic in the other lanes.
Rock Gaines
November 2nd, 2011
2:06 pm
Way too much belly aching over something that is not going to change. I just got back from central Florida where there are many toll roads. I was in Miami earlier this year where they have the same HOT lane system.
Get over it, Atlanta. Try car pools, van pools, or Xpress bus – if you can get over your propensity to be resistant to any and all change.
If metro Atlanta and the state of Georgia wasn’t so resistant to change, we might have commuter rail and expanded MARTA rail service by now. Those plans have been around for years. Now we’re paying for the lack of investment in mass transit with extra time in traffic and lost productivity because of it.
Adam
November 2nd, 2011
2:33 pm
kayaker: It was BOA customers who threatened to move their accounts if the fee was not dropped
Just who do you think the BoA customers are (or in the case of those that left, were)?
Adam
November 2nd, 2011
2:35 pm
Bruno: You have posted an article that has pictures and one paragraph. How exactly am I supposed to take that as anything more than another ringer being exposed?
Adam
November 2nd, 2011
3:25 pm
And btw Bruno, if there really are 1%er children at the protests, they will leave and run home as soon as it gets cold. So I’m not particularly worried about plants.
Paddy O
November 2nd, 2011
3:31 pm
Peter – how else do you pay for debt? Taxes. Either NOW or later. Historically, war debt was paid off with bonds. But, we now pay for the gov’t daily operations as conceived by the liberal cabal with bonds. Obama looks seems to see the US $$ and thinks he is playing monopoly. Why forgive debt for college students? They too stupid to use their degree to earn $$? Or, just increasing the breadth of the nanny state to include the elite, or the faux elite?
Paddy O
November 2nd, 2011
3:33 pm
TARP is owned by Bush, Paulsen & Geithner. It is a betrayal of the free market & simply welfare for corporations. Democrats supported, as dumb as they are.
TruthBe
November 2nd, 2011
8:19 pm
Criminals and Crooks all of them. Remember the contact we had with them about Ga400.
The tolls were to be removed after the 20 years time period in the legal document. Also it was calulated to be paid in full at the end of it’s cycle. There wasn’t suppost to have any of it’s funds used for any other purpose but to operate it and pay off it’s debt. It had a “Sundown Law” in the contact. Now it’s permanent. Well they broke the legal contact with the Citizens and Drivers of Ga400. Now they want move money for more toll roads and they want us to trust them. Bull$hit. Where is the outcry about them breaking the contact therefore breaking the law and trust with the taxpayers and customers of Ga400?
mcs
November 4th, 2011
9:18 pm
It shows that I lot of people were violating the HOV restriction
Watchful Eyes in Georgia
November 6th, 2011
11:58 pm
Not using them, never will. I’ll bet most people do not have 5k of disposable income to hand back to the state every year