The volatile nexus of politics and college athletics

Apparently, Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell has a strange understanding of “limited government.”

As sports fans know, the nation’s college athletic programs are playing a high-stakes game of musical chairs at the moment, forcing universities to scramble to make sure they have a conference to play in. West Virginia University, for example, this week thought it had nailed down membership in the powerful Big 12 conference, with a media announcement scheduled for today.

That announcement has been canceled, thanks to McConnell. The Kentucky senator reportedly made a phone call or two, and before you knew it the Big 12 started thinking that inviting West Virginia to join their conference would be a big mistake. Instead, the conference may now extend that offer to the University of Louisville.

McConnell (University of Louisville, class of ‘64) isn’t talking. But Sen. Joe Manchin (West Virginia University, class of ‘70) is making up for it.

“If these outrageous reports have any merit – and especially if a United States senator has done anything inappropriate or unethical to interfere with a decision that the Big 12 had already made – then I believe that there should be an investigation in the U.S. Senate, and I will fight to get the truth,” Manchin said.

West Virginia’s other senator, Jay Rockefeller, has also gotten involved. “The Big 12 picked WVU on the strength of its program — period. Now the media reports that political games may upend that,” Rockefeller said.  “That’s just flat wrong. I am doing and will do whatever it takes to get us back to the merits.”

Rockefeller is chairman of the Senate Commerce Committee, which has jurisdiction over college athletics. All in all, it looks as though West Virginia and Kentucky may be headed for a border feud the likes of which ain’t been seen since the days of the Hatfields and McCoys.

Pass the popcorn, please.

– Jay Bookman

282 comments Add your comment

Granny Godzilla

October 27th, 2011
2:32 pm

Keep

You are way to kind to the Donald.

Keep Up the Good Fight!

October 27th, 2011
2:32 pm

Atlbirdawg….we can agree on the outsome of gridlock and a lot of stupidity. I don’t agree that the entire politics of the Dems are “party first”, some may be but I believe that its too easy to make those claims when the politics align with what is right. I do agree that is the politics of the Republicans is Party First and above the country. Re-election is a concern of all politicians but that is exacerbated by United Citizens and we need real campaign reform.

Keep Up the Good Fight!

October 27th, 2011
2:33 pm

Granny, yeah I know but I did not want to have to satisfy the sensititives of the auto-filter ;)

Janney

October 27th, 2011
2:33 pm

AND RB, Jay has documented facts, not made-up fantasies, to back up his opinions.

[...] holding up WVU move? – Manchin weighs in on Big 12 expansionBluefield Daily TelegraphThe volatile nexus of politics and college athleticsAtlanta Journal Constitution (blog)Daily Press (blog) -Chicago Tribune -Washington Post [...]

[...] holding up WVU move? – Manchin weighs in on Big 12 expansionBluefield Daily TelegraphThe volatile nexus of politics and college athleticsAtlanta Journal Constitution (blog)Daily Press (blog) -Chicago Tribune -Washington Post [...]

TaxPayer

October 27th, 2011
2:35 pm

Lehman had $639 billion of assets when it filed for protection from creditors on September 15, 2008, a filing that was a major trigger of that year’s global financial crisis.

Another Chapter in the history books, “The Failure that is Wall Street,” about to be finalized, in a year or two or three…

Libertarian

October 27th, 2011
2:35 pm

Keep

1. I was told yesterday on the blog that referencing opinion websites does not constitute facts

2. Your little chart there does not account for any other taxes besides income and payroll. As you and the rest of Jay’s groupies like to point out daily, you have to consider gas, sales and all other types of taxes. The rich spend more, therefore they pay more in sales tax.

3. Your little chart is based on people in NYC. I’m guessing those people must make their money off of dividends and capital gains to only pay an effective rate of 7% (if this bs website is even true). But, without giving up too much information, I see a lot of tax returns and I’m looking at one right now from a millionaire and that person paid 31.5% in income tax alone. And spare me the typical liberal response of “that person needs to get a new accountant.” Some people are honest, and pay what they owe. For you and others to make a sweeping statement that “all millionaires pay nothing” and “janitors pay more than millionaires” is insulting and elementary. Turn off the MSNBC for a minute.

AmVet

October 27th, 2011
2:35 pm

“I am so proud of myself for getting owned by the President in front of the world”

getalife, in that regard, the loon epitomizes our con bloggers here, doesn’t he?

The more they get punked the more they ask, “What punking?”

Granny, nope. Honestly if the headlines includes that birther moron’s name, I’m fairly certain it is just titillating trash.

In a few weeks Perry and Cain will be coming out with their Equitable Football Conference Alignment Plan, in which the big boys will get even more money and the little schools will be sucking hind teat as usual.

That’s hysterical, RC. I love it.

But I’m think I’m “down” with Brother Herman’s 999 plan.

If I understand it correctly now, the bottom 99% pay in $999 up front, and then pay $999 a month for 999 months.

The job creators and winners in the top 1% are exempt.

RB from Gwinnett

October 27th, 2011
2:39 pm

“Please, Please, Please send that to those talking turds on Fox and Friends! Actually, just make it a general memo to everyone at FNC. Thanks! ”

Sure. Right after you send one to NBC, CBS, ABC, CNN, CNBC, MSNBC, PBS, THE AJC, NYT, LA TIMES, CHICAGO TRIBUNE, etc, etc, etc……..

When you’re done, I’ll be happy to send that one letter to that one media outlet.

Get the point?

Libertarian

October 27th, 2011
2:40 pm

Generation$crewed

October 27th, 2011
2:31 pm

On this blog its ok to tell lies and half-truths about the “rich” or the 1%.

getalife

October 27th, 2011
2:41 pm

The cons lack of intellectual honesty is ridiculous.

After presented with solid evidence that they are dead wrong, they can’t admit it.

You just have to laugh at the clowns.

Atlbirdawg

October 27th, 2011
2:41 pm

Libertarian,

Oh good lord. I guess no proof or facts are needed to back up that idiotic statement.

It’s more true than you realize. If a CEO of a company earns $1 mill/yr salary then yes he will pay a higher tax rate on that income than someone who earns $50k/yr. The issue is when you have CEO’s like Buffet who earn $1/yr salaries but then receive $10 million/ year in divendend income which are taxed at a much lower rate. When you combine that with the fact that the “janitor’ also pays the various payroll taxes and spends nearly 100% of their income to survive they are paying consumption taxes on nearly 100% of their income. The millionare who pays the nominal 15% capital gains tax on the $10 mill plus only consumes 1-2% of income is paying a significantly lower blended rate than the janitor.

Keep Up the Good Fight!

October 27th, 2011
2:43 pm

Libertarian…. sorry, you dont like the website or the facts as initially reported on Tax.com. I did not know you were so very sensitive that you consider that an opinion website. And since you want to be precise….do show where I or any other said “all millionaires pay nothing” or that “janitors pay more than millionaires.” You really whine without fact…. I did say “NY janitors pay more than millionaires as a percentage” as demonstrated by the info on Tax.com as reported in another story.

Now I am sure that if you add in the gas tax, sales tax, property tax…. as a percentage, the NY janitor pay more. But your welcome to provide facts, which you have not so far, to demonstrate your point.

Got anything more than some childish rant. If you are looking at tax returns, I hope you are doing a better job there than you are at posting here.

DebbieDoRight

October 27th, 2011
2:44 pm

The rich spend more, therefore they pay more in sales tax.

Well DUH!! If you buy a yacht you’re going to spend more on taxes than the person who bought a Mini Cooper. Jeesh!!

Paul

October 27th, 2011
2:44 pm

Generation:

The background to that was the assertion by many on the Right that N% pay no income tax. The counter is they pay payroll taxes which go to support the General Fund. The level was federal. Sales and many others are state or are designated for a specific purpose (gasoline tax).

It was also noted in the same discussion there are over a thousand households with incomes over one million dollars who have no federal income tax liability. Given how many of them have their financial affairs structured to take advantage of laws minimizing tax liability, payroll taxes don’t enter into the equation.

Libertarian

October 27th, 2011
2:47 pm

Atlbirdawg

October 27th, 2011
2:41 pm

I understand how our tax system works. I’m smart enough to know that included in the “1%” are people who make $350,000 to INFINITY. What some people on this blog are too stupid to realize is that you can’t just lump the whole group together and say “they pay zilch.” Yes, Buffett, Oprah, Steve Jobs, Bill Gates, etc etc etc probably don’t pay much more than 15% or so because they make all of their money off of dividends. They use money to make more money. There is a simple solution to that….raise the tax rate on dividends. I get it. But you can hardly lump a business owner making $350,000 or even $1.2 million into the same category as Warren Buffett. Those are the people are are genuinely screwed by our tax system. They are small business owners, they are job creators. It is insulting to all of them to have bottom feeders sit here daily saying they don’t pay anything.

delagator

October 27th, 2011
2:47 pm

Atlbirdawg “OK I guess I’m the idiot”
Well said from a Gator, only you are not an idiot. If you run for office I will vote for you. Political extremist keep pushing their own vitriolic agendas to keep American’s eyes off the ball. Until WE THE PEOPLE get our act together, there will be no change.

Paul

October 27th, 2011
2:48 pm

“The rich spend more, therefore they pay more in sales tax.”

Another example of introducing state and local taxes into a discussion about federal taxes.

Hi DDR!

Just got done with a stint for nearly a week of taking care of son’s 2 1/2 year old son and twin 7-month old sons.

Mrs. Paul did most of the work, but I take a lot of the credit.

It’s a guy thing.

Paul

October 27th, 2011
2:50 pm

Libertarian

“What some people on this blog are too stupid to realize is that you can’t just lump the whole group together and say “they pay zilch.” ”

My impression is, no one here on the apparent Left side of the argument says that.

It’s the people on the apparent Right side of the argument who say the Left says that.

Libertarian

October 27th, 2011
2:50 pm

I don’t know why I bother with you Keep.

So, you’re telling me you know without a doubt that ALL JANITORS pay more than ALL MILLIONAIRES (as a percentage)? You know that? As a fact? There isn’t ONE millionaire out there who pays a higher percentage than ONE janitor?

And I believe it was Bosch who said “millionaires pay zilch.”

Janney

October 27th, 2011
2:54 pm

RB; please supply facts to prove your “point” about NBC, CBS, ABC, et all. There are already numerous facts to prove Fox News bias.

1811/0311

October 27th, 2011
2:55 pm

Regarding the previous thread:

“Protected class is a term used in United States anti-discrimination law. The term describes characteristics or factors which can not be targeted for discrimination and harassment. The following characteristics are considered “Protected Classes” and persons cannot be discriminated against based on these characteristics:

Race – Federal: Civil Rights Act of 1964 and the Civil Rights Act of 1866
Color – Federal: Civil Rights Act of 1964
Religion – Federal: Civil Rights Act of 1964
National origin – Federal: Civil Rights Act of 1964
Age (40 and over) – Federal: Age Discrimination in Employment Act of 1967
Sex – Federal: Equal Pay Act of 1963 & Civil Rights Act of 1964
Familial status (Housing, cannot discriminate for having children, exception for senior housing)
Sexual orientation (in some jurisdictions and not in others)
Gender identity (in some jurisdictions and not in others)
Disability status – Federal: Vocational Rehabilitation and Other Rehabilitation Services of 1973 & Americans with Disabilities Act of 1990
Veteran status – Federal Vietnam Era Veterans Readjustment Assistance Act of 1974
Genetic information – Federal: Genetic Information Nondiscrimination Act”

Now, I don’t see anything in there that says it’s “discrimination” for an employer to not hire someone because they are a knucklehead “WallStreet Occut*rd” ……………..: because it has nothing to do with race, color, sex, sexual orientation, ethnicity, national origin, age, religion, disability, or genetic information, etc.. Maybe I missed it but I didn’t even see being a “member of a certain political party” as being one of the categories in federal anti-discrimination law. If it’s there someone please show me the legal cite.

However, even if being a member of a certain “policital party” is a categroy, if an employer doesn’t want to hire someone stupid enough to be part of a group that promotes violence, confronts police, violates city ordinances and lawful orders, trashes public places and violates the rights of others …………….. then that’s just the kind of employer I would want to work for.

Bottom line ………….. you don’t have to hire a “knucklehead” as there are always “better qualified applicants” !

http://www.eeoc.gov/facts/qanda.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protected_class

Paul

October 27th, 2011
2:56 pm

Libertarian

It was I who said, of those who assert there are people who ‘pay no income tax’ that “as has been repeatedly demonstrated here, they have more ’skin in the game’ than many millionaires who pay zilch.”

Armed Liberal

October 27th, 2011
2:58 pm

Butch Cassidy

October 27th, 2011
2:58 pm

RB in Gwinnett – Right after you send one to NBC, CBS, ABC, CNN, CNBC, MSNBC, PBS, THE AJC, NYT, LA TIMES, CHICAGO TRIBUNE, etc, etc, etc……..

When you’re done, I’ll be happy to send that one letter to that one media outlet.

Get the point?”

Not really, I don’t get my news from anyone that you listed. I am however partial to the BBC. I find that watching the news from sources outside the U.S. tends to provide much better understanding of how we are really viewed in the world. Whereas the FNC leans so far right that if they went any further the world would shift on it’s axis.

Keep Up the Good Fight!

October 27th, 2011
2:58 pm

Libertarian…you do have a comprehension issue or are you just lying? Did I say ALL janitors? First I said NY Janitors. I doubt that is ALL Janitors and that the 49 other states have ZERO. Then you don’t really care for the truth do you…just your lies. To be precise, I said when all taxes are taken into account including federal payroll taxes, as a percentage, a NYC janitor pays more as a % than a millionaire. Note the word “a” not “all” and the one and only point I will concede is that I did not refer to federal payroll and income taxes, however, that said, I dont think that state and local taxes will change that overall result.

So to recap…You lie!

St Simons - we're on Island time

October 27th, 2011
2:59 pm

“The rich spend more, therefore they pay more in sales tax.”

Not if the rich guy has a good accountant.
Shell co – across state lines – book it in SG&A – lowers Net Income
Not only does he pay no sales tax, he effectively pays lower
income tax because of the SG&A expense.- boom
The little man just goes to the store and pays it.
The rich man gets “paiiid” twice.
Is that fair?
There is one party that is FOR more regulation of this.
There is one party that is for LESS regulation of this.
Vote your conscience, if you have one.
Don’t blame us, we just count the beans.

Generation$crewed

October 27th, 2011
3:00 pm

Paul

October 27th, 2011
2:44 pm

As others here have posted, you should have indicated exactly what you meant and left nothing out. Outherwise you have another motive as to what you said and are thus disingenuous.

I’m surprised those who were arguing that earlier have not posted anything along those lines to you for orignally posting it or to Bosch for re-posting it.

Also kinda shocks me that you chose to remain silent and did not say anything to contradict those posters arguing that those who pay no income tax, do pay taxes. You know with your whole federal and state tax issue.

Guess you didn’t see where they posted that only when other people did. Weird

I am sure they must have just acidentally skipped Bosch’s re-post and were unaware you made the same mistake as another poster, with whom they were arguing with.

lso how can you just decide to eliminate the payroll taxes of those you speak of?

If they are accepting a salary and get a pay check from the company they are paying their payroll tax as well, sorry if you don’t think its enough, but they are paying this tax.

If they own the company or coorporation they are also paying taxes deducted before their takehome profit.

Armed Liberal

October 27th, 2011
3:03 pm

RB – I’ll make a deal with you, if you’re game.

You read this: http://books.google.com/books/about/What_liberal_media.html?id=zXu0MIeRoCYC

And I’ll read something you suggest.

Wanna play?

Paulo977

October 27th, 2011
3:03 pm

Janney

October 27th, 2011
2:54 pm
RB; please supply facts to prove your “point” about NBC, CBS, ABC, et all.

About time someone called her/him on it!!!!

USMC

October 27th, 2011
3:04 pm

Occupy Wall Street kitchen staff protesting fixing food for freeloaders…
LOL!

Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/manhattan/zuccotti_hell_kitchen_i5biNyYYhpa8MSYIL9xSDL#ixzz1c0iDCCSu

Granny Godzilla

October 27th, 2011
3:04 pm

Millionaires Support Warren Buffett’s Tax on the Rich

I read stuff like this, then look at the GOP and wonder how they can be so self destrustive.

DebbieDoRight

October 27th, 2011
3:05 pm

Hi DDR! – Just got done with a stint for nearly a week of taking care of son’s 2 1/2 year old son and twin 7-month old sons. Mrs. Paul did most of the work, but I take a lot of the credit. It’s a guy thing.

Hi ya Paul!! Well congrats on all the hard work that you did with the kids! Yes I know it was really Mrs. P — But you were the one giving her all that good advice, while watching television. You did your part and that’s all that counts. :lol:

Paul

October 27th, 2011
3:06 pm

Generation

“As others here have posted, you should have indicated exactly what you meant and left nothing out. Outherwise you have another motive as to what you said and are thus disingenuous.”

I would suggest if you select a statement from a prior blog, you should read the thread to understand the context of the statement and not assume you interpret one post correctly.

I just came back on here a few minutes ago. The post was addressed to Bosch. I generally give the addressee time to respond before I jump in.

I do not understand the point you made regarding the payroll tax. Can you rephrase?

Libertarian

October 27th, 2011
3:07 pm

Keep

As long as you concede that it is possible that some millionaires pay a higher percentage than some janitors, I’m fine with that.

And, it wasn’t you who said millionaires pay nothing, it was Bosch/Paul.

Atlbirdawg

October 27th, 2011
3:08 pm

Delagator – Thanks for the endorsement :)

Libertarian – We too then can agree. I’m with you that many govt policies hinder small businesses. However if a small business owner is claiming business receipts, or even business income as personal income then they really do need to get with a good accountant because the US tax code has many legal and ethical exemptions they can claim.

“There is a simple solution to that….raise the tax rate on dividends.”

100% agreed dividend income, capital gain income, whatever income, is income and should be taxed as income at the appropriate rate for that income. I would recommend that the corporate tax rate be cut from 36%, which is among the highest in the world, to around 25% simplify the tax code and eliminate the vast majority of exemptions. This would bring more jobs and more growth to the economy.

Butch Cassidy

October 27th, 2011
3:08 pm

Janney – “RB; please supply facts to prove your “point” about NBC, CBS, ABC, et all. There are already numerous facts to prove Fox News bias.”

I wouldn’t hold my breath Janney. Its’ been my experience that RB is on “right wing” time. Make a statement devoid of facts and then disappear. That, or he’s stuck in traffic because he refuses to use the HOT lanes that were so graciously provided by his Republican Overlords.

DebbieDoRight

October 27th, 2011
3:10 pm

Numbers: However, even if being a member of a certain “policital party” is a categroy, if an employer doesn’t want to hire someone stupid enough to be part of a group that promotes violence, confronts police, violates city ordinances and lawful orders, trashes public places and violates the rights of others …………….. then that’s just the kind of employer I would want to work for.

Wow! Does that mean an employer can discriminate against the NRA or those Dog Loving people? They break LOTS of ordinances, laws, etc., etc., etc.

Butch Cassidy

October 27th, 2011
3:13 pm

Numbers – ” if an employer doesn’t want to hire someone stupid enough to be part of a group that promotes violence, confronts police, violates city ordinances and lawful orders, trashes public places and violates the rights of others …………….. then that’s just the kind of employer I would want to work for.”

How many resumes have you sent to Communist China? I think you’re just the type of employee they’re looking for.

Keep Up the Good Fight!

October 27th, 2011
3:13 pm

Ummm….Libertarian. I think the quote from Paul as reposted by Bosch at 1:50 and later again by Paul says “many millionaires who pay zilch.” Again, NO one has said ALL millionaires pay zilch” except for your claim.

But thanks for conceding that you are fine with a concession I did not make about a statement that I did not make. Just can step up and admit you were wrong can you? I won’t expect you are able to stand up and apologize for your false attributions and lies either.

Generation$crewed

October 27th, 2011
3:15 pm

Paul

October 27th, 2011
3:06 pm

“I would suggest if you select a statement from a prior blog, you should read the thread to understand the context of the statement and not assume you interpret one post correctly.”

As I would suggest that you read through the discussion of a current blog before you jump in, and not assume you interpret one post correctly.

Many Millionaire take a salary for working a position at a company. If they are getting paid they are having to contribute payroll taxes. your statement does not say anything about that unless zilch is not zero. Or I have a misunderstanding of the value of zero.

You did exactly with your post what another poster did, yet not a peep from those who argued with the other poster. just seemed odd to me….

dare i say disingenuous of them.

Then i asked the same of you, but from your statement of you just checking back in…..

I guess you were simply guilty of what you lectured/ suggested that i do….

Odd how people’s hypocricy shows depending upon the issue huh?

You sure u ain’t a republican?

Paul

October 27th, 2011
3:16 pm

Libertarian

“And, it wasn’t you who said millionaires pay nothing, it was Bosch/Paul.”

Actually, it wasn’t.

Reread the 2:56

Libertarian

October 27th, 2011
3:17 pm

Keep

You are a child. And I am done with you. Have a good day.

DebbieDoRight

October 27th, 2011
3:17 pm

I am however partial to the BBC. I find that watching the news from sources outside the U.S. tends to provide much better understanding of how we are really viewed in the world. Whereas the FNC leans so far right that if they went any further the world would shift on it’s axis.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Butch: or he’s stuck in traffic because he refuses to use the HOT lanes that were so graciously provided by his Republican Overlords.

Ooooo…… You’re talking about RB’s daddies! He’s going to get really really upset and probably try and stop some poor old democrat from voting.

Paul

October 27th, 2011
3:21 pm

Generation

You’re beginning to sound like Libertarian. The salient point is that he mischaracterized what I said. It was not necessary to read four pages to determine that.

You don’t have a misunderstanding of zilch. You are merely ignoring those who’ve structured their finances to avoid income and payroll taxes by introducing another group.

Today’s the fourth Thursday in an even-numbered month in an odd numbered year, so yes, today is “Be a Republican” day.

Janney

October 27th, 2011
3:21 pm

Debbie Do Right and Butch Cassidy; thanks for pointing out the hilarity of right-wingers!

Keep Up the Good Fight!

October 27th, 2011
3:23 pm

Some people just can’t stand someone pointing out that they are wrong…… :lol: :lol: :lol:

Butch Cassidy

October 27th, 2011
3:25 pm

DebbieDoRight – “Ooooo…… You’re talking about RB’s daddies! He’s going to get really really upset and probably try and stop some poor old democrat from voting.”

Well if he follows suit, he’ll refer to me as a “Lib” then instruct me to get a job (even though I’m retired) and then make some comment about “wealth envy” (not knowing that I’m a retired stockbroker who lives off of investment income that is taxed at a substantially lower rate) and ending with some mindless rant about how “if I loved Obozo so much, why don’t I marry him” (again not realizing that I didn’t vote for Obama and probably won’t in this election either. But hey, I could be wrong. :)

Paul

October 27th, 2011
3:26 pm

Keep

I think some, like Generation, are just having fun. Others, it seems, can’t distinguish their egos from their opinions.

DebbieDoRight

October 27th, 2011
3:27 pm

Keep – You are a child. And I am done with you. Have a good day.

Hmmm sounds a lot like:

Luke, I am your father. Join with me and embrace the DARK SIDE.

Libertarian

October 27th, 2011
3:27 pm

“You are merely ignoring those who’ve structured their finances to avoid income and payroll taxes”

I’m not ignoring those people. I know there are many in America who don’t pay their fair share. Some are in the top 1%. But what a lot of liberals seem to ignore is that there is a large number of people in the top 1-2% who do pay their fair share. They pay a lot. And are tired of seeing our government pi*s it away. Some on this board consistently like to demonize the the “rich” while defending the poor. And to be fair, there are plenty on this board who demonize the poor as being lazy, etc when that is no necessarily true. In short, there are a lot of hypocrites on this board who would follow their chosen party off a cliff.

DebbieDoRight

October 27th, 2011
3:32 pm

Butch: Well if he follows suit, he’ll refer to me as a “Lib” then instruct me to get a job ……..make some comment about “wealth envy” ……..ending with some mindless rant …… But hey, I could be wrong.

Naw you’re right. You forgot to add the part about your being a Socialist and the anti-christ. He puts that sh##t on everything.

Keep Up the Good Fight!

October 27th, 2011
3:33 pm

Paul, I would agree with the egos and opinions mishmash. My opinion can definitely be changed with real facts and information. I have often held opinions over the years that were wrong initially.

DDR: :lol: To which the proper retort is “There I have run rings around you logically”? Or is it “Intercourse the Penguin’?

Atlbirdawg

October 27th, 2011
3:33 pm

“In short, there are a lot of hypocrites on this board who would follow their chosen party off a cliff.”

WINNER WINNER CHICKIN DINNER!!!

The biggest problem is with politics in America is this right here. The Republican party specifically has done a masterful job of getting people to vote against their own best interests.

Armed Liberal

October 27th, 2011
3:34 pm

GOP: I like vanilla ice cream, it’s the best.

DEM: I like strawberry.

GOP: Idiot, vanilla’s the best. That’s a fact!

DEM: That’s your opinion, not a fact.

GOP: NO. Vanilla is the best. It’s a fact. Check it here.

DebbieDoRight

October 27th, 2011
3:35 pm

Lib: They pay a lot. And are tired of seeing our government pi*s it away.

They squirrel most of it away in tax shelters and off-shore accounts. They’re not paying as much as they pretend they are. They just like to make a big fuss in case someone, (Uncle Sam), finds out the number on those accounts and come a-calling.

Paul

October 27th, 2011
3:35 pm

Libertarian

“But what a lot of liberals seem to ignore is that there is a large number of people in the top 1-2% who do pay their fair share.”

I don’t recall ‘liberals’ making that case.

I do recall them saying that many in the top N% pay less of their income in federal (payroll and income) taxes than do the aggregate of middle-class households and the deductions/rates should be adjusted to ensure they pay at least the same percentage as their middle-class counterparts.

And yes, I’ve also read of many liberals who would like to get rid of redundancy, special breaks for certain groups, and streamlining of government operations to bring operations costs more in line with revenue.

Butch Cassidy

October 27th, 2011
3:36 pm

DebbieDoRight – “Naw you’re right. You forgot to add the part about your being a Socialist and the anti-christ. He puts that sh##t on everything.”

I forgot about the Socialist part. Apparently in Gwinnett, it’s categorically impossible for someone to be wealthy AND support the notion that there is a tremendous amount of inequity when it comes to slicing up the pie in this country.

MPercy

October 27th, 2011
3:37 pm

Without knowing if indeed McConnell made said calls, and if he did, what was said, I can offer an opinion that there there is a difference between a person, even a Senator (or even the President) expressing an opinion and the same official using the power of the government or threat of government action.

That is, if Pres. Obama said he thinks the BCS should be replaced with a playoff, that’s an opinion. Pres. Obama calling for a hearing on the BCS, that’s using government power.

Jay

October 27th, 2011
3:37 pm

Generation$crewed

October 27th, 2011
3:37 pm

Paul

October 27th, 2011
3:26 pm

Me?

No, Never.

Just trying to educate myself on why it is disingenuous to say 47% don’t pay taxes, when they do pay some form of taxes.

Yet it is not disingenuous to say many millionaire don’t pay taxes, when they do pay some form of taxes.

Paul

October 27th, 2011
3:40 pm

Libertarian

In fact, in days gone by, I’ve noted many of America’s prominent families had one of the charismatic sons win election to Congress? Why? Because they write the tax laws. And we see the results today.

I’ve also noted that in all the talk about tax reform, eliminating breaks, etc. that the Pelosis and Rockefellers and Kennedys never, ever, ever mentioned abolishing the family trusts that shelter so much of wealth from federal taxes.

That’s back in the days when I was assailed as a neocon.

Then I got my “what am I supposed to be today?” calendar.

DebbieDoRight

October 27th, 2011
3:40 pm

“Intercourse the Penguin’?

HA! Now that reminds me of…..

Felicity Shagwell: Austin Powers, I presume.
Austin: Powers by name, powers by reputation.
Felicity Shagwell: Felicity Shagwell, CIA. Shagwell by name, shag-very-well by reputation.
Austin: Oh, be-have.
Felicity Shagwell: Not if I can help it.

Paul

October 27th, 2011
3:46 pm

Generation

“Just trying to educate myself on why it is disingenuous to say 47% don’t pay taxes, when they do pay some form of taxes.”

That’s a common statement many on the Right pick up from media. I attribute it many in media not thinking thru the issue. Or having thought it through, ignoring the conclusion to make their political points.

Yes, many millionaires pay taxes. A lot. A whole bunch of a lot.

And some pay zilch. That’s where most of my comments are directed.

RB from Gwinnett

October 27th, 2011
3:49 pm

“And I’ll read something you suggest.

Wanna play?”

Sure. I’ll play. Here you go…
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+1&version=NIV

Adam

October 27th, 2011
3:49 pm

1. I was told yesterday on the blog that referencing opinion websites does not constitute facts

Close. In ALL OF REALITY, if you use a blog post as a way of showing PROOF, then it had better have at least some actual evidence through citation. If all you get is a blog post that does not in any way even attempt to cite a source to back up the claim, then it can’t even come CLOSE to being “PROOF.”

Now if you want to cite statistics or whatever to back up a claim, that’s fine. It doesn’t necessarily mean that your opinion about what it means suddenly becomes fact, and it certainly doesn’t constitute PROOF of your claim unless that claim is directly linked to the data, such as having data that shows where money is going or how many jobs were created or something.

Adam

October 27th, 2011
3:54 pm

Libertarian: Those are the people are are genuinely screwed by our tax system. They are small business owners, they are job creators

An assumption. There is no evidence that has been presented to suggest this entire group, or even most of it, is full of people who have businesses being taxed as individuals instead of businesses, which is the only instance in which your argument that job creators having their income taxed affects their company directly. Many pull their paycheck and all their employees’ paychecks from the profits of their company, instead of paying every employee out of their own personal pocket.

Generation$crewed

October 27th, 2011
4:00 pm

Paul

October 27th, 2011
3:46 pm

Ahh but now you change it to some not most!

Moving teh goal post, moving the goal post

MPercy

October 27th, 2011
4:28 pm

Paul “That’s a common statement many on the Right pick up from media. I attribute it many in media not thinking thru the issue. Or having thought it through, ignoring the conclusion to make their political points.”

It is careless to say that 47% pay no taxes.

But a trip to the IRS web site clears this right up.

About 40% of tax units pay zero or negative federal income taxes. Of those, about 1 in 4 pay zero or negative income and payroll taxes combined; fully 12% of all tax units pay zero or negative combined income and payroll taxes, since their refundable income credits more than offset their payroll taxes.

Another 15M or so simply don’t file. The combination brings us to that oft-quoted figure that 47% don’t pay federal income taxes (and again, 12% are *also* not paying any payroll taxes). It is true that some do pay at least a little in the way of payroll taxes, ostensibly funding their SS and Medicare use later in life (*although not really, given Ponzi structure of SS).

It is doubtful that many of those 47% directly pay much, if any, federal corporate taxes.

This leaves only federal excise taxes on things like gasoline, alcohol, and cigarettes.

The CBO reports (2006) that the lower quintile pays an effective federal tax rate of 4.3% when all federal taxes are considered (income + payroll + corporate + excise). The upper quintile pays 25.5% effective rate when all federal taxes are considered, and the top 1% pays an effective rate of 31.2% when all federal taxes are considered.

State taxes are an altogether different issue, since we are usually discussing federal spending and federal taxes. People may live in one several states without a state income tax, for example, so it is hard to compare apples to apples, but everyone lives under the same federal tax code.

MPercy

October 27th, 2011
4:33 pm

Adam, small businesses structures as S corporations are the most common corporate entity by a long shot (more than 3 million). S corporations flow all income through to the owner(s) and onto their personal income taxes.

All employees of S corporations are truly being paid out of the owner(s) pocket.

Ross Perot

October 27th, 2011
5:27 pm

Can’t they focus on the Solyndra payoffs instead??

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stephen

October 27th, 2011
9:41 pm

8 minutes before an ObamaHate? I knew they would start getting tired around now.

Elli.T

October 28th, 2011
1:18 am

Sometimes things are not working as forecasted, thats life….

cheers,
Elli

AlmowlNon

October 28th, 2011
6:59 pm

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