Sorting out the impact of GOP tax-reform plans

In recent weeks we’ve been confronted by a slew of tax proposals from GOP presidential candidates, ranging from Herman Cain’s “9-9-9″ plan to Rick Perry’s “Cut, Balance and Grow Plan.” For many voters, the details of those various proposals can no doubt get a little hazy and confusing.

To address that problem, I’ve been wanting to put together a comprehensive post addressing all of the plans at once. Thanks to the release of Rick Perry’s plan and a new report on household incomes released Tuesday by the Congressional Budget Office, I finally have the analytical data I needed to pull it all together.

Before we go further, let’s review the CBO findings:

1.) The overall federal tax system became less progressive between 1979 and 2007, thanks largely to the greater relative impact of payroll taxes.

2.) The share of federal transfer payments going to poor Americans also fell sharply, from more than 50 percent to 35 percent. According to CBO, “that shift reflects the growth in spending for programs focused on the elderly population (such as Social Security and Medicare), in which benefits are not limited to low-income households.”

3. The study also documents the ongoing concentration of national income among the richest 1 percent of U.S. households. It found that the share of after-tax income going to the lowest-income 20 percent of Americans fell between 1979 and 2007, dropping from 7 percent to 5 percent. In fact, income share fell by 2 to 3 percent for almost every income group. It rose only among the most affluent 1 percent. Their share of national income more than doubled, from 8 percent in 1979 to 17 percent in 2007.

(Although those percentage shifts may not sound like much, in real terms it is quite large. For example, the 7 percent shift in household income from the middle 60 percent of Americans to the richest 1 percent represents a shift of $539 billion a year from the 60 percent to the 1 percent. Overall, the CBO reports that income of the highest-earning 1 percent rose by 275 percent in that time frame, after inflation.)

Anyway, as promised the final exhaustive package on GOP tax-reform plans is available HERE. I’ve put it in the form of an info-graphic. Take a look and if you think I’m missing anything, or if you think of a way to make it clearer, let me know.

– Jay Bookman

609 comments Add your comment

getalife

October 26th, 2011
10:58 am

Tax cuts for the 1 % while exploding the deficit again.

gop politics as usual.

That will never change.

Peadawg

October 26th, 2011
11:00 am

That graph is pretty funny, Jay. Nice write-in with the marker. :lol:

Mick

October 26th, 2011
11:02 am

Right in your face – very effective but the blinded will howl…

Armed Liberal

October 26th, 2011
11:03 am

This is, of course, all Obama’s fault.

USinUK

October 26th, 2011
11:03 am

Bosch – from downstairs – that reminds me of the scene from The Talented Mr. Ripley when he’s listening to My Funny Valentine and saying “is that a man or a woman?”

Butch Cassidy

October 26th, 2011
11:05 am

But Jay, if we don’t give them more money, how will they be able to come up with the capital needed to create jobs?

Thomas

October 26th, 2011
11:05 am

Data/charts/scratch and sniff/paint by numbers- they all point to raise money from friends and family, borrow money from the SBA or otherwise, and go start a business. When you make unusual amount of monetary profits simply pay more in tax and hire a lot of folks.

It really is that easy. Don’t be afraid.

Libertarian

October 26th, 2011
11:06 am

There is one thing missing from your graphic. The word “give” is misleading. By letting someone keep more of their money you are not “giving” them anything. I think what you want is for the top 1% to “give” more money to the bottom half.

Chuck Doberman

October 26th, 2011
11:07 am

So what!!?? Things are proceeding as planned way back in the Reagan days and launched with his “trickle down” (roflmao) economic policy. This is progress! Now all we have to do is vote in another republican president (take your pick – they all offer more of the same policies and practices that put us in this cesspoll of an economy anyway) and keep the ball rollin’! Heck, these primary candidates are set and ready to ACCELERATE the process. It won’t take long after that, the middle class is already on it’s last legs and can’t endure much more so this is the time to strike! Eff the middle class and the poor, we don’t need ‘em!

Butch Cassidy

October 26th, 2011
11:08 am

Libertarian – “By letting someone keep more of their money you are not “giving” them anything.”

I stand corrected – But Jay, if we don’t let them keep more money, how will they be able to come up with the capital needed to create jobs?

Thanks Libertarian! :)

Granny Godzilla

October 26th, 2011
11:10 am

How appropriate that your note appears to be written in blood….

USinUK

October 26th, 2011
11:10 am

from 2 floors down:
speaking of how trickle down just doesn’t work:

The nonpartisan agency said in a report that after-tax income on average grew by 62% during the 30-year period. But that growth wasn’t even. The wealthiest 1% of Americans saw their incomes skyrocket by 275% during that stretch, while after-tax income for the one-fifth of households with the lowest income grew by just 18% from 1979 to 2007.

oh, and those “47%ers who take take take”???

The poorest 20% of the population received more than 50% of government transfers in 1979, but that had fallen to around 35% by 2007, the CBO said. This was largely because of the rise of spending focused on the programs benefiting the elderly such as Social Security and unemployment compensation that aren’t limited to low-income households.

http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2011/10/25/income-growth-of-top-1-over-30-years-outpaced-rest-of-u-s/?mod=e2tw

Jm

October 26th, 2011
11:11 am

Jay :) nice

The only flaw I’d say is it’s not a 0 sum game

How about we just dial back loopholes and reduce entitlements for the wealthiest rather than raising rates?

Stonethrower

October 26th, 2011
11:13 am

You really think the 1% care about what we think? That’s why they make gated communities. Keeps them away from us lazy common working folks.

Peadawg

October 26th, 2011
11:13 am

“speaking of how trickle down just doesn’t work:”

Whenever I see the words “trickle down” I think of Stiffler in ‘American Pie’.

(Hopefully someone here knows the scene I’m talking about)

Butch Cassidy

October 26th, 2011
11:13 am

Jm – “How about we just dial back loopholes and reduce entitlements for the wealthiest rather than raising rates?”

Aaaaannddd….Come on, say it with me. Allow the Bush tax cuts to expire across the board for EVERYBODY.

Jm

October 26th, 2011
11:14 am

There is real corporate welfare out there. Direct subsidies and full tax breaks. Those should be the first to stop. Agricultural, but it will include some dear loves of the left including solar power.

Chuck Doberman

October 26th, 2011
11:14 am

“(Hopefully someone here knows the scene I’m talking about)”

I know the scene of which you speak, and it’s an excellent representation of “trickle down”

St Simons - we're on Island time

October 26th, 2011
11:16 am

you don’t get this quality of analysis in other newspapers

keep swingin the hammer

and don’t underestimate the People, they’re not stupid
just temporarily hoodwinked by the cons
and that’s mighty shifty sand the cons built their house on
to use a local phrase
it’s all gonna flip soon, and they know it, you can hear it in the pitch of their screeching

Jm

October 26th, 2011
11:16 am

Stonerhrower. Jobs lived in a regular ole neighborhood and most others do too

Butch – I said that long ago if nothing else can happen, that has to

However, we’ll still be back in big deficit land soon enough due to entitlement growth

Bosch

October 26th, 2011
11:17 am

Dammit, Jay Bookman, I took a swig of Coke right before clicking that link — Coke through the nose is no fun man!

But damn, that was just too funny!

Mighty Righty

October 26th, 2011
11:18 am

Off topic but too, too delicious to pass up. Those of you on the wacky left will find this reasonable but the rest of us normal people will see the humor. PETA, one of the lefts favorite organizations is filing a lawsuit claiming whales arre having their constitutional rights, under the thirteenth admendment violated, They claim the whales at Sea World in San Diego are slaves in violation of the thirteenth admendment prohibiting slavery. Seriously, can anyone believe the looney’s on the left are playing with a full deck?

Bosch

October 26th, 2011
11:18 am

USinUK @ 11:03

:)

ragnar danneskjold

October 26th, 2011
11:18 am

Good morning all. While I still think the Fair Tax is the best alternative to the current system (i.e., least destructive of the economy), any of the alternatives floated so far – by Huntsman, Gingrich, Cain, Perry – would be likely to stimulate the economy without the negative effects of Keynesian spending schemes. Credit Perry with magnifying the importance of reining in wasteful Federal spending (I acknowledge those adjectives are redundant), not just eliminating adverse tax effects.

Butch Cassidy

October 26th, 2011
11:19 am

Jm – “Butch – I said that long ago if nothing else can happen, that has to”

You probably did, but it tends to get drowned out by the screams of “wealth envy” and “stop punishing the successful people” mantra that tends to permeate Jays blog.

Stonethrower

October 26th, 2011
11:20 am

Jm

So you’re saying we all can be Jobs? He was the exception and not the rule. Everyone can’t be the hero. Somone has to stand on the side and cheer when the parade goes by.

getalife

October 26th, 2011
11:21 am

At what point will you cons oppose helping the 1 %?

Butch Cassidy

October 26th, 2011
11:21 am

Mighty Righty – “Seriously, can anyone believe the looney’s on the left are playing with a full deck?”:

LOL, I just tend to counter it with statements from Herman Cain advocating the raising of children by women who got pregnant through rape or incest. Good times!

Bosch

October 26th, 2011
11:21 am

Yeah, PETA, we all just love those loons. :roll:

Thomas

October 26th, 2011
11:22 am

theintelligentdesigner

October 26th, 2011
11:22 am

Nice piece. You might, for the sake of simplicity and overkill, to put up the decrease in tax rates for those same “Americans.” Which is it Cons? Best country in the world or worst?

USinUK

October 26th, 2011
11:22 am

jm – 11:14 – TESTIFY

(heck, elimimate all deductions, while we’re at it!)

Jm

October 26th, 2011
11:23 am

Stonerhrower
Money will not make one happy

Keep Up the Good Fight!

October 26th, 2011
11:24 am

What? Corporations are people but whales can’t be people? Corporations have rights but not whales? Frankly until Mighty Righty has read the briefs, the pleadings, and the case law….he just spouting ignorance.

Butch Cassidy

October 26th, 2011
11:24 am

Jm – “Money will not make one happy”

Then why does the 1% need so much of it? ;)

godless heathen

October 26th, 2011
11:24 am

But, but, but, the graph shows that real after tax income for “all incomes” has risen during the period from 1979 to 2007. And just eye-balling it it appears to have risen by more than about 30% for the middle groups.

Aren’t we continually being told that Americans, except for the uber rich are getting poorer and poorer.

BlahBlahBlah

October 26th, 2011
11:26 am

Cain’s plan stinks. Perry’s plan stinks. Obama’s plan stinks. The current tax code stinks.

getalife

October 26th, 2011
11:26 am

If the 1 % is making more money than ever and are buying corrupt pols for fun, at what point do you cons say enough?

Butch Cassidy

October 26th, 2011
11:27 am

godless heathen – “Aren’t we continually being told that Americans, except for the uber rich are getting poorer and poorer.”

No one is telling us that. It’s painfully obvious based on the number of homeless, depletion of food banks, reduced giving to charity, upside down mortgages, deserted half built construction projects and pretty much any forclosure report you can get your hands on. But no, no ones “telling” us that people are getting poorer.

Aquagirl

October 26th, 2011
11:28 am

Another awesome chart by Jay. The only thing he left out is “work harder, faster, you lazy peasants!”

Jm

October 26th, 2011
11:28 am

Usinuk. I think the mortgage deduction should be capped for loan amounts above $100k

I do think the charitable deduction should stay though

Health insurance should be taxed. But child tax credits slightly increased

I’d flatten and reduce the rates if enough reform can happen…. But the arterial sclerosis appears to have set in

Guy Incognito

October 26th, 2011
11:28 am

“Peadawg

October 26th, 2011
10:57 am

First bitches, and………
Peadawg

October 26th, 2011
11:13 am
“speaking of how trickle down just doesn’t work:”

Whenever I see the words “trickle down” I think of Stiffler in ‘American Pie’.

(Hopefully someone here knows the scene I’m talking about)”

Pea is on a roll. You’re crackin me up

Armed Liberal

October 26th, 2011
11:29 am

Take a look at the last 10 years on this chart: Thanks GOP

If that doesn’t tick you off, you’re not listening.

getalife

October 26th, 2011
11:29 am

Are we even getting closer to you cons saying the 1 % does not need any help?

ty webb

October 26th, 2011
11:30 am

Only in Bookmanland is letting people keep more of their money, the same as “giving it to them”…good grief!

Butch Cassidy

October 26th, 2011
11:30 am

Aquagirl – “The only thing he left out is “work harder, faster, you lazy peasants!”

I think Jay is ethically prohibited from stealing Herman Cains lines. :)

AmVet

October 26th, 2011
11:31 am

Aren’t we continually being told that Americans, except for the uber rich are getting poorer and poorer.

But some have their fingers in their ears:

NEW YORK (CNNMoney) — It’s official. The first decade of the 21st century will go down in the history books as a step back for the American middle class.

Last week, the government made gloomy headlines when it released the latest census report showing the poverty rate rose to a 17-year high. A whopping 46.2 million people (or 15.1% of the U.S. population) live in poverty and 49.9 million live without health insurance.

But the data also gave the first glimpse of what happened to middle-class incomes in the first decade of the millennium. While the earnings of middle-income Americans have barely budged since the mid 1970s, the new data showed that from 2000 to 2010, they actually regressed.

For American households in the middle of the pay scale, income fell to $49,445 last year, when adjusted for inflation, a level not seen since 1996.

And over the 10-year period, their income is DOWN 7%.

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/money/2011/09/21/news/economy/middle_class_income/chart-income.top.jpg

You professional deniers and apologists desperately need an intervention…

carlosgvv

October 26th, 2011
11:31 am

Many people shy away from studying tax reform plans, believing they are just too complicated to understand. Fortunately, the GOP presidential candidates have made it simple for us. They will all, in one way or another, tax the rich less and tax the middle class and poor more. See, that’s easy to understand. And, since the Republicans are totally owned by the rich, who furnish all their election and re-election funds, it’s easy to see why they will take care of their rich patrons in any and every way they can and only pretend to care anything about the middle class and poor.

Joe COOL

October 26th, 2011
11:31 am

Mighty Righty

October 26th, 2011
11:31 am

How many years have the Democrats controlled the House which writes the tax laws and apprpriates spending in the last say 20 years? And those evil rich people on Social Security and Medicare are causing the poor to be poorer? Further, people who do not pay a dime in income taxes are conributing to their own retirement and benefits via payroll deductions and this is a bad thing? Come on Jay. Forget the Democrat talking points designed to deflect attention from our miserable economy.

Butch Cassidy

October 26th, 2011
11:31 am

ty webb – “Only in Bookmanland is letting people keep more of their money, the same as “giving it to them”…good grief!”

It’s only fair, since in GOP land only 53% of the population pays taxes. good grief!

Guy Incognito

October 26th, 2011
11:32 am

GG

So your Boston Fern is occupying your victrola?

How timely

Bosch,

Back to Smash P….in your opinion, which is the better album, Gish or Siamese Dream?

The current tax system is a failure. It needs to be simplified. The reason that some of the R candidates are getting traction with their trial baloons, is that the people want a new plan

Joe COOL

October 26th, 2011
11:33 am

Mighty Righty

October 26th, 2011
11:35 am

Butch Cassidy

October 26th, 2011
11:21 am

Must be a lefty idea. I have never heaqrd anone on my side, including Herman Cain, say that.

Bosch

October 26th, 2011
11:35 am

Guy,

I like them both about the same, and I think they are both lots better than Mellon Collie –

Don't Tread

October 26th, 2011
11:36 am

As long as you’re modifying the graph, how about a nice red hammer and sickle icon?

Mighty Righty

October 26th, 2011
11:37 am

It’s only fair, since in IRS land only 53% of the population pays taxes. good grief!

Bosch

October 26th, 2011
11:38 am

I wonder how the wealth disparity today mirrors that of Pre-Revolutionary France? That would be an interesting analysis.

USinUK

October 26th, 2011
11:38 am

Jm – health insurance is a taxed benefit here – but that is because we have the NHS

I am happy to compromise on the mortgage to >$100K (although the housing market works just fine here without any mortgage deduction)

no deductions for offspring, though!

Butch Cassidy

October 26th, 2011
11:39 am

Mighty Righty – “Must be a lefty idea. I have never heaqrd anone on my side, including Herman Cain, say that.”

True, it was lost in his incoherent rant about a womans right to choose as long as she didn’t break the law prohibiting abortions. Which, by the way, Herman Cain wants to make a reality should he become POTUS. Oh yeah, and for reference you can watch him do it on Piers Morgan.

AmVet

October 26th, 2011
11:40 am

Joe COOL, and the permanently servile Reaganistas STILL think it’s all a big joke!

So heathen, no response to my 11:31?

Righty?

71?

Corporal?

Surely (and don’t call me Shirley) you fiscal conservatives have data to disprove that information, correct?

(Sound of an almost pin drop here)

Guy Incognito

October 26th, 2011
11:41 am

Bosch

I prefer the raw sound of Gish, but still really enjoy SD. Mellon Collie disappointed me as well, just like Tiny Music (Stone Temple Pilots) did after Purple and Core

A tax form that can fit onto a 5×7 card may be goofy, but it’s the simplicity that is appealing

Butch Cassidy

October 26th, 2011
11:42 am

Mighty Righty – “It’s only fair, since in IRS land only 53% of the population pays taxes. good grief!”

Yeah, damn those millionaires and their loopholes, and don’t even get me started on Sr. Citizens and their Social Security Ponzi scheme! I apologize Mighty, all this time I thought you were a waterboy for the GOP. I stand corrected.

Guy Incognito

October 26th, 2011
11:42 am

Bosch

October 26th, 2011
11:38 am
I wonder how the wealth disparity today mirrors that of Pre-Revolutionary France? That would be an interesting analysis.

As much as I dispise wealth envy, this thought has occured to me as well over the last couple of years

Mighty Righty

October 26th, 2011
11:45 am

Butch-I saw his disjointed comment which didn’t make any sense at all. But he did not say what you claim he said.

Adam

October 26th, 2011
11:45 am

Mighty Righty: And those evil rich people

Why do you think the rich are evil, MR?

real john

October 26th, 2011
11:46 am

And where is Obama’s tax plan??? Oh, yeah, let’s tax those evil rich

Second; Bookman, why no investigating on the spending side? Since Obama and the Dems have exploded spending, I haven’t seen one article from you on cutting spending.

As I have said before, tax the h*** out of the wealthy. Let the EPA and your environmental and green buddies keep coming out with regulation after regulation. Let’s just see how the economy does then….trust me, it won’t be pretty.

You may hate the wealthy and corporations; thats fine. However the idea the increasing taxes and putting more regulations on business will some how help the economy is crazy…The Dems REFUSE to look at the REAL problem….SPENDING.

godless heathen

October 26th, 2011
11:46 am

“So heathen, no response to my 11:31?”

Not reflected Jay’s chart.

Bosch

October 26th, 2011
11:46 am

Guy,

Get the pitchforks and let’s storm the castle!! :)

I think wealth envy is a conservative myth — something you guys like to think we think, but really no one does.

And….I agree with the Pumpkins analysis — I will add that their last album Zeitgeist blew chunks except for the wonderful guitar rift in the song Tarantula….well done.

Adam

October 26th, 2011
11:47 am

Conservatives are the only ones on this blog who call the rich “evil.”

Proof is in the Google:

http://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Ablogs.ajc.com+“evil+rich”

My personal favorite:

http://blogs.ajc.com/jay-bookman-blog/2011/10/01/aclu-doing-its-job-condemns-targeting-of-us-citizen/?cp=9#comment-740480

godless heathen

October 26th, 2011
11:47 am

in Jay’s chart, i meant to say.

stands for decibels

October 26th, 2011
11:48 am

And just eye-balling it it appears to have risen by more than about 30% for the middle groups.

See also.

Bosch

October 26th, 2011
11:49 am

“The Dems REFUSE to look at the REAL problem….SPENDING”

Actually john, spending isn’t the real problem considering our economy is consumer driven — it makes me wince when I read people writing that. Spending is all we have in this country.

The real problem is that we don’t make anything anymore, and only 1% of the people in this country have real money to spend.

People forget that government spending keeps lots of people employed and not just govt. workers. Call me a communist, whatever, but facts are facts.

Adam

October 26th, 2011
11:49 am

Also, I love how a conversation that starts with “The rich have gotten a lot of tax breaks, maybe we shouldn’t give them MORE tax breaks” turns into the conservative view of the whole thing that says “The liberals think those rich people need to be taxed into OBLIVION!!!”

How about “No New Tax Cuts.” Can we agree to that, then talk about how to close gaps?

Mighty Righty

October 26th, 2011
11:49 am

AmVet-I didn’t see anything to argue about. The facts are the facts. I am sure we can disagree with the cause.

USMC

October 26th, 2011
11:51 am

“Sorting out the impact of GOP tax-reform plans”–Jay

You mean to tell us that the current Tax Code is OKAY???

The Wealth envy displayed by Jay Bookman and minions is disgusting.

Go get a job and EARN your own money, people. You can do it!
Keep your greasy meat hooks out of other peoples’ pockets!

By the way, has anyone bailed Jay out of jail, yet???
I heard that the comrades at Occupy Atlanta were arrested last night. :-)

Bosch

October 26th, 2011
11:51 am

john,

And I will add to my Communist Manifesto above that the other problem is that the 99% of the minion peasants who don’t have any money supplement their income and their purchasing power with credit cards and other forms of cheap credit.

It’s like a magical illusion that people have money now. If we actually spent what we made, our economy would collapse in a matter of days.

Jim163

October 26th, 2011
11:51 am

From CNNMoney article…

“Well, there were just under 1.4 million households that qualified for entry. They earned nearly 17% of the nation’s income and paid roughly 37% of its income tax.”

Yeah, that seems fair….

Adam

October 26th, 2011
11:52 am

Better link to empirical evidence of conservatives spouting the “evil rich” line

http://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Ablogs.ajc.com+“evil+rich”

Mighty Righty

October 26th, 2011
11:54 am

Adam-I am not in favor of cutting taxes. I am in favor of cutting regulations. I am in favor of cutting spending. I am infavor of cutting government employees.

Bosch

October 26th, 2011
11:54 am

Jim163,

It’s not a matter of “fair” it’s a matter of practicality. The top 1% were given the opportunity through our economic systems put in place to gather all that wealth. How is that “fair” to the other 99%?

Bosch

October 26th, 2011
11:55 am

“I am infavor of cutting government employees”

So, they can collect unemployment, food stamps, and lose their homes???

Joe COOL

October 26th, 2011
11:56 am

real john

October 26th, 2011
11:46 am
Are you a real “john”?
lol

ty webb

October 26th, 2011
11:57 am

“The top 1% were given the opportunity through our economic systems put in place to gather all that wealth. How is that “fair” to the other 99%?”

no, I take it back…this one’s more worthy of a “good grief !”

Bosch

October 26th, 2011
11:57 am

Hey Adam! That’s pretty funny! 961 examples of wingnuts calling rich people evil! They love them, they hate them, it’s so confusing!!

Poor Boy From Alabama

October 26th, 2011
11:57 am

JB,

You left out the critical question – Why have incomes for the Top 1% outstripped those for everybody else? Here’s what the CBO said in that same report:

http://cboblog.cbo.gov/?p=2909

“The precise reasons for the rapid growth in income at the top are not well understood, though researchers have offered several potential rationales, including technical innovations that have changed the labor market for superstars (such as actors, athletes, and musicians), changes in the governance and structure of executive compensation, increases in firms’ size and complexity, and the increasing scale of financial-sector activities.”

This probably helps explain why the Occupy Wall Street folks can’t seem to come up solid policy suggestions. The same is true for many of their older supporters.

godless heathen

October 26th, 2011
11:57 am

Why are all the categories in Jay’s chart quintiles (20%) except for one, that being the last one, the 1%. Could it be that this chart is designed to inflame the passions of the math impaired?

How would the chart look if it were divided into 5 equal bars?

And if you took the dollars involved to get the top 1% their 300% increase and distributed those dollars across the other five categories, would they make a noticeable difference in the height of the columns? Or does that even matter, as long as the last column isn’t so high?

Aquagirl

October 26th, 2011
11:58 am

I saw his disjointed comment which didn’t make any sense at all. But he did not say what you claim he said.

If you didn’t understand it, why are you claiming to know what Cain did/didn’t say?

Also, if a candidate barfs up a verbal Rorschach blot, the listener is entitled to their own interpretation.

Bosch

October 26th, 2011
11:58 am

Why ty?

Care to explain just how that is? The 1% of the people who own the wealth in this country did not get it simply because they worked harder than anyone else.

Jim163

October 26th, 2011
11:58 am

Bosch,

Everyone has the same opportunity in our system. JM has already forwarded the example of Apple starting in a Garage. Same with EBAY and MicroSoft.

USinUK

October 26th, 2011
12:00 pm

USMC – 11:51 – “The nonpartisan agency said in a report that after-tax income on average grew by 62% during the 30-year period. But that growth wasn’t even. The wealthiest 1% of Americans saw their incomes skyrocket by 275% during that stretch, while after-tax income for the one-fifth of households with the lowest income grew by just 18% from 1979 to 2007″

right. those wealthiest 1% really worked hard to earn that 275% increase in income – the rest of us have been slacking it for the last 30 years.

you just stay on your knees, USMC – I’m sure your corporate overlords love you for your capitulance

Bosch

October 26th, 2011
12:01 pm

Jim163,

That’s bs. Everyone has the same opportunity, but not the same resources, or talents. That is the lamest excuse anyone can give. It shows a person’s complete lack of dishonesty.

Bosch

October 26th, 2011
12:01 pm

make that lack of honesty.

Jim163

October 26th, 2011
12:02 pm

Enter your comments here

Jim163

October 26th, 2011
12:03 pm

Bosch..Ok I take that back…People without a garage are at a disadvantage.

Butch Cassidy

October 26th, 2011
12:04 pm

Bosch – “Care to explain just how that is? The 1% of the people who own the wealth in this country did not get it simply because they worked harder than anyone else.”

Oh but they did Bosch, haven’t you heard? They work 500 times harder than the average citizen. They have to, because apparently they are 500 times smarter than the average citizen as well.

Welcome to the occupation (Trotsky)

October 26th, 2011
12:08 pm

News Flash!

Enter the next stage in the right’s frantic attempt to smear OWS.

It’s about the antisemitism, you see? Yeah, that’s it.

All they needed was their cue from Bill Kristol, and presto! they had their marching orders. Gingrich is already faithfully singing the tune.

Cons are sweating all right. They know they have a real movement on their hands.

Aquagirl

October 26th, 2011
12:10 pm

Everyone has the same opportunity in our system. JM has already forwarded the example of Apple starting in a Garage. Same with EBAY and MicroSoft.

All those founders worked very hard, but to a certain extent you have to be at the right place at the right time. The internet was kick-started by the government (no, not Al Gore) and without that, none of those businesses would be as successful as they are today.

They also are extremely huge and profitable by minimizing competition. Bill Gates has shelled out money for anti-trust violations, and Microsoft is notorious for aggressively stomping out competition. The rich get bigger and richer at the expense of the small businesses and workers, who can’t even get a foothold against a conglomerate.

USMC

October 26th, 2011
12:12 pm

“you just stay on your knees, USMC – I’m sure your corporate overlords love you for your capitulance”–UsinUk

My “corporate overlords”??? (wildly intoxicated with socialist propaganda)

Uh…I think USinUK had too much coffee…ok… tea this morning.

How about we implement the FLAT tax or FAIR Tax system, UsinK??
(what will your Bolshevik “overlords say about that??) :-)

RB from Gwinnett

October 26th, 2011
12:12 pm

Why would anybody with any sense at all waste their time going to look at Bookman’s assesment of Republican tax plans? You know it’s going to tell a one sided story through the lens of a socialist without even looking.

Want a simple answer to what has happened here since 1979, Jay? Put together a cute little chart of WORK ETHIC changes since 1979. Until the bottom 20% starts getting up every morning, showing up for work, doing a good job, provides quality goods and service, they will continue to get left behind in ANY ECONOMY ON THE PLANET.

What percentage of Americans paid no taxes in 1979, Jay? You keep claiming the tax % of GDP hasn’t changed, but who’s paying it? Half pay, half whine about them not paying enough. That won’t end well….

DBCOOPER

October 26th, 2011
12:14 pm

I have a great idea. Let’s just keep the tax system like it is. Even though it is a complete failure. And just increase taxes on successful Americans and business’ that employ people. That makes perfect sense! Even though it will be a drop in the bucket as far as making up for our deficit. Doesn’t it sound really good?

St Simons - we're on Island time

October 26th, 2011
12:15 pm

What did Friedman say, there are 3 major factors that have triggered revolutions throughout history –
1) wealth accumulation in too few hands
2) unemployment in younger people
3) reduced availability of food, by supply or prohibitive price

Congratulations neocons, to borrow a Bushism – you almost got the trifecta

Pretty much all you have left to do is end those ag subsidies and deport those messicans picking the crops. What, you’re on that? Good job….

Bosch

October 26th, 2011
12:15 pm

In the words of Adam….

LUNCH!!!

Gordon

October 26th, 2011
12:17 pm

What’s Obama’s plan?

AmVet

October 26th, 2011
12:17 pm

So Righty, you agree that for the overwhelming percentage of Amerians, real income has flat-lined since Reagan?

So why did it take a handful (originally) of fed up Americans to even get this on the right wing radar?

I have never, ever seen the first con dare approach this topic.

Not once. Never.

And I suspect that you also agree with that fact.

To that extent, I’d say that so far, the rapidly growing OWS movement has been a success.

The toughest part, of course will be to get the now begrudgingly cognizant to take some meaningful action.

Much as the corporal, jm, fast and furious and the other grovelers desperately want it to, this righteous stand for justice is not going to go away.

The American giant has finally been awakened.

And the self-destructive wimps will not be able to stop it…

jm

October 26th, 2011
12:17 pm

AmVet

October 26th, 2011
12:19 pm

…successful Americans…

As you are not one of the super-rich, does that make you a failure?

Jim163

October 26th, 2011
12:19 pm

“The internet was kick-started by the government (no, not Al Gore) and without that, none of those businesses would be as successful as they are today.”

And how many potential business’s have been crippled by the government? Home Depot founder Ken Langone has state publicly that if Sarbanes Oxley was in existence during their start-up they would have never got off the ground. They offered stock options to employees to entice the best workers and those workers made the difference. Sarbanes Oxley stopped the practice of capitalizing stock options.

saywhat?

October 26th, 2011
12:20 pm

Jim163

October 26th, 2011
11:58 am
“Bosch,

Everyone has the same opportunity in our system. JM has already forwarded the example of Apple starting in a Garage. Same with EBAY and MicroSoft.”

Same opportunity, huh? Try getting in on the ground floor of the next big Wallstreet IPO.

Butch Cassidy

October 26th, 2011
12:20 pm

RB from Gwinnett – ” Until the bottom 20% starts getting up every morning, showing up for work, doing a good job, provides quality goods and service,”

They do, unfortunately it’s in China and India and Vietnam and The Phillipines where the employees will gladly work for 1 to 2 dollars a day. Until you can get the “lazy” American worker to accept the same pay, we’ll continue to have the same problem. By the way, how’s the HOT lane your GOP buddies built treating you?

Stevie Ray

October 26th, 2011
12:21 pm

I need some help here. The fact that the wealthy are getting wealthier and the “middle class” (depending on how you define same)are relatively flat. Not sure I understand the point unless anyone here is offering a palatable solution that will incentivise small business’ and those making over $250K to continue to do so rather than compensation deferral or other means to limits payments they see amount to Government waste of up to $1 trillion per year.

Isn’t anyone on this forum concerned about waste? Seems that if we can simply eliminate waste then we will have a better read on what the true numbers need to be…This conversation is premature except for this is the millionth time liberals have pointed out this growing difference.

AmVet

October 26th, 2011
12:21 pm

The top 1% were given the opportunity through our economic systems put in place to gather all that wealth.

Much as ty does not want to know, that is absolutely, irrefutably correct.

Peadawg

October 26th, 2011
12:23 pm

RB @ 12:!2

So a single mom working 2-3 jobs to support her and her kid doesn’t work hard enough?

Gordon

October 26th, 2011
12:24 pm

AmVet,

What are the Democrat ideas for changing the flat-lined incomes for middle-class America? I mean other than just voting in politicians who will take it from the rich (even though doing that won’t do a thing).

Butch Cassidy

October 26th, 2011
12:24 pm

Jim163 – “They offered stock options to employees to entice the best workers and those workers made the difference.”

Yes, and then they brought in Bob Nardelli to run the show, and he immediately kicked those same workers to the curb while raking in 36 million a year. Then, after strip mining HD, they had to pay him an addition 200 million just to leave the company. Please tell me, why do you hold the very same people that are financially raping you in such high regard?

Keep Up the Good Fight!

October 26th, 2011
12:25 pm

AmVet…. and the collary… if you are born super-rich and never work in your entire life and merely pay others to manage your money, are you successful?

jm

October 26th, 2011
12:26 pm

“A significant number of them no doubt have inflated costs,” William Short, an industry consultant and former investment banker with Kidder Peabody & Co., said in an interview. “The road to Hell is paved with good intentions. This one’s a superhighway.”

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-10-26/clean-energy-developers-reaped-excess-aid-under-u-s-program-auditors-say.html

USinUK

October 26th, 2011
12:27 pm

USMC – “How about we implement the FLAT tax or FAIR Tax system, UsinK??”

I’m a flat-tax girl, myself –

flat tax, no deductions

look it up, that’s what I’ve always advocated

ty webb

October 26th, 2011
12:28 pm

“So a single mom working 2-3 jobs to support her and her kid doesn’t work hard enough?”

She’s working extremely hard now, but chances are, at one point in her life(school, career choices) she probably didn’t, hence the predicament she’s in now…Choices(career, family planning, school) have consequences.

Butch Cassidy

October 26th, 2011
12:29 pm

Keep Up the Good Fight – ” if you are born super-rich and never work in your entire life and merely pay others to manage your money, are you successful?”

Yes, because the poor and middle class chose the wrong parents, If they hadn’t been so “lazy” they all would have chosen the Vanderbilts, Rockefellers and Kennedys. Now, kindly take your wealth envy elsewhere! :)

Granny Godzilla

October 26th, 2011
12:30 pm

“why do you hold the very same people that are financially raping you in such high regard?”

it’s all they have ever known and frankly they like it

besides they look like they are asking for it

RB from Gwinnett

October 26th, 2011
12:31 pm

“Until you can get the “lazy” American worker to accept the same pay, we’ll continue to have the same problem.”

I’m going to assume you haven’t tried employing any of them lately because you don’t have a friggin clue what’s going on. There are MILLIONS of illegals here doing jobs those lazy Americans won’t do and they’re not being paid $1-2/day.

What do you suppose happened to the “less fortunate” back in the 1600’s when they were too dang lazy to get up and work every day? Now they have the likes of you doing the biding for them so they can suck the life out of our society.

Butch Cassidy

October 26th, 2011
12:31 pm

Ty Webb – “Choices(career, family planning, school) have consequences.”

You tell em Ty! While your at it, throw in those “lazy” SOB’s that went to work for Enron and Worldcomm and Countrywide. Bunch of sniveling whiners if you ask me.

Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)

October 26th, 2011
12:31 pm

Well, only a moran would set around wondering about the impact of a tax reform plan. It don’t matter if it’s GOP or librul Democrat. Somebody’s going to wind up paying more and it’s for dang sure it won’t be the people with the big money to give to politicans. And you’re downright touched in the head if you think a new tax plan is going to leave you paying the same or less than you did before.

My advise is to stay greased up and ready to bend over at any time. When there’s a impact you’ll know it. Just think of it as a Dr’s check-up.

Have a good lunch everybody.

Guy Incognito

October 26th, 2011
12:33 pm

ty

“She’s working extremely hard now, but chances are, at one point in her life(school, career choices) she probably didn’t, hence the predicament she’s in now…Choices(career, family planning, school) have consequences.”

Good job. I see these kids in high school everyday. They don’t listen to the teachers. They don’t do their homework. The skip classes…………and then their mother comes in on the last day of school and screams that her darling has been discriminated against because the teacher failed her. Decisions have consequences

Gordon

October 26th, 2011
12:33 pm

USinUK,

You realize that a flat tax with no deductions will raise taxes on all low-income Americans, don’t you?

I don’t understand why the idea of simplifying taxes, which is a good one, has been mixed with the idea of a flat tax. We should have a simple way to calculate our income, and progressive tax rates.

Butch Cassidy

October 26th, 2011
12:34 pm

RB from Gwinnett – “I’m going to assume you haven’t tried employing any of them lately because you don’t have a friggin clue what’s going on.”

Yes, that and the fact that I’ve been retired for the last 5 years and really have nothing for them to do. By the way, I can assure you that my tax margins are signiificantly lower than yours due to the majority of my income being derived from investments. So thanks for the boost RB!

USinUK

October 26th, 2011
12:36 pm

“She’s working extremely hard now, but chances are, at one point in her life(school, career choices) she probably didn’t, hence the predicament she’s in now…Choices(career, family planning, school) have consequences.”

gosh – does that include when husbands walk out on their wives – they become wealthier while their wives and children’s income / standard of living takes a nosedive.

I guess she should be punished for that, too.

:roll:

Butch Cassidy

October 26th, 2011
12:37 pm

Guy Incogneto – “Decisions have consequences”

And I refer you to my 12:31 post to Ty.

RB from Gwinnett

October 26th, 2011
12:37 pm

“So a single mom working 2-3 jobs to support her and her kid doesn’t work hard enough?”

A single mom without the education to support 3 kids should not be having 3 kids. Choices have consequences and those consequences are not the responsibility of the federal government to bear at the expense of 53% of taxpayers.

Bad choice no. 1 – not having the education needed to support your 3 kids.

Bad choice no. 2 – Having 3 kids you can’t take care of.

In liberal lala land, is anybody ever responsible for their actions?

USinUK

October 26th, 2011
12:37 pm

Gordon – “You realize that a flat tax with no deductions will raise taxes on all low-income Americans, don’t you?”

and it’ll raise it on the rich

in this case, everyone truly DOES share the pain.

Butch Cassidy

October 26th, 2011
12:39 pm

USinUK – “I guess she should be punished for that, too.”

Of course you should. Right along with the employees from Enron who were prohibited from selling their company shares while Ken Lay was shoveling his out the door. Don’t you know that it all comes down to CHOICES?

Keep Up the Good Fight!

October 26th, 2011
12:40 pm

Hmmm… well let’s see, if all you teach in schools is abstinence and that has been proven a failure, then are not the Republicans responsible for those pregnancies?

Jim163

October 26th, 2011
12:40 pm

Butch..I don’t understand how Nardelli is financially raping me? He hasn’t taken anything from me. I would also be willing to bet that a great deal of the original Home Depot employees made it into the 1% through their original stock offerings.

USinUK

October 26th, 2011
12:41 pm

RB – “A single mom without the education to support 3 kids should not be having 3 kids.”

EXCELLENT!!! are you going to start dispensing criteria for breeding??? is it literacy? HS diploma? Bachelors? Masters?? how much is enough???

and, as mentioned, you don’t know if she COULD support the 3 kids when she had them – one illness is all it takes to go from comfortable middle-class exisitence to povery

in conservative “nah, we’d really rather not use the common sense god gave us” land, they leave all observations of reality at the door.

ty webb

October 26th, 2011
12:41 pm

UsinUK,
well then it’s the governments fault for focing her to marry a douchebag…and we as taxpayers should pay for the government’s mistake…oh and we should also pay for her mistakes in not getting a good enough education where as she can survive without the assistance of the former douchebag husband’s income…so many “victims”.

Armed Liberal

October 26th, 2011
12:42 pm

” I would also be willing to bet that a great deal of the original Home Depot employees made it into the 1% through their original stock offerings. ”

This is quite possibly the dumbest thing I’ve seen on this blog. Ever.

Mr. Right

October 26th, 2011
12:42 pm

The top 1% were given the opportunity through our economic systems put in place to gather all that wealth.

Much as ty does not want to know, that is absolutely, irrefutably correct.

Yea, those bad evil 1% rich people! Who do they think they are getting rich ? Don’t they know they should sit on their butts and get the American dream ” Gov. Hand-outs” ? We have just got to take their wealth and give it to those other 99%! Now that is the American dream !

Gordon

October 26th, 2011
12:42 pm

USinUK,

“and it’ll raise it on the rich”

What flat rate are you talking about? That rate would have to be pretty high to raise it for most of the rich, which would be devastating to the poor. The stories you hear about where the rich don’t pay much tax are the exceptions, not the rule. The majority would love a flat tax.

USinUK

October 26th, 2011
12:42 pm

Butch – 12:39 – dammit, man!! I forgot about the choices of to get cancer or NOT to get cancer (or MS or rheumetoid arthritis or any other innumerable serious illnesses that can make you go bankrupt)

Butch Cassidy

October 26th, 2011
12:42 pm

RB from Gwinnett – “Bad choice no. 1 – not having the education needed to support your 3 kids.

Bad choice no. 2 – Having 3 kids you can’t take care of. ”

You forgot about Bad choice no. 3 – Going to work for a multi billlion dollar company that was being systematically looted from the top, which resulted in hundreds of thousands of dollars in company stock suddenly being reduced to nothing because of inflated accounting figures produced by the same people who were raiding the corporate coffers for their own personal gain.

Yeah RB, you tell em about CHOICES!

USinUK

October 26th, 2011
12:43 pm

Gordon – 12:42 – by dispensing with ALL deductions, it’ll raise taxes on the wealthy.

USinUK

October 26th, 2011
12:44 pm

ty – 12:41 – that’s right – when you don’t have a leg to stand on, resort to hyperbole and hysteria. works so much better than real-life examples.

Butch Cassidy

October 26th, 2011
12:46 pm

Jim163 – “Butch..I don’t understand how Nardelli is financially raping me? He hasn’t taken anything from me. I would also be willing to bet that a great deal of the original Home Depot employees made it into the 1% through their original stock offerings.”

Sorry Jim163, I forgot. If it doesn’t personally affect you, then it’s all good.

ty webb

October 26th, 2011
12:47 pm

UsinUK,
and cancer is not a choice…but, again, choices made during one’s life(education, career, planning,) will decide what kind of economic effect it will take on the patient and their family.

RB from Gwinnett

October 26th, 2011
12:48 pm

“By the way, how’s the HOT lane your GOP buddies built treating you?”

About as well as that cluster in the White House.

I’d still like to know what the morons at the DOT were thinking was going to happen when they implemented a plan that wouldn’t pay for itself and wouldn’t improve traffic? Same for the stupid lights on the ramps. And is anybody surprised by this being done by the same clowns who claimed they did a “great job” with snow removal?

Guy Incognito

October 26th, 2011
12:48 pm

“EXCELLENT!!! are you going to start dispensing criteria for breeding???”

Yes…..if you receive welfare………..do not have anymore kids! Or is that to hard to grasp? As far as I know, PP will GIVE you birth control

Butch Cassidy

October 26th, 2011
12:49 pm

Armed Liberal – “This is quite possibly the dumbest thing I’ve seen on this blog. Ever.”

Nope, it was surpassed by this little gem from Ty :

“well then it’s the governments fault for focing her to marry a douchebag…and we as taxpayers should pay for the government’s mistake…oh and we should also pay for her mistakes in not getting a good enough education where as she can survive without the assistance of the former douchebag husband’s income…so many “victims”.”

Normal

October 26th, 2011
12:49 pm

Hey gang,
Just got back from closing out some of Mom’s business. Checked my email and found the below. A truly unbiased report card of president Obama’s 32 months? You decide. BTW: I posted the sources, so you can study them…

Barack Obama’s 32 Month Report Card
by Rich Carroll
Mr. Hope and Change wants to create a nation humbled; humiliated, casting-aside capitalism and individual freedoms for one where ‘we the people’ are government controlled. This would be a system that genuflects mediocrity, steals personal aspiration and opportunity, and punishes those who strive to succeed.
A gallon of regular gasoline the day Obama was inaugurated was $1.79 on average in the U.S. Today that price is $3.59, a 100.6% increase.
The number of food stamp recipients has risen since Obama took office from 31,983,716 to 43,200,878, a 35.1% jump.
Long term unemployment soared 146.2% during the same 32 month period from 2,600,000 to 6,400,000. Staggering ‘hope and change’ isn’t it?
American citizens living in poverty have risen 9.5% from 39,800,000 to 43,600,000.
The number of unemployed has jumped almost 25% from 11,616,000 to 14,485,000 as of August 31, 2011.
The number of unemployed blacks has risen from 12.6% at the end of George Bush’s term to 15.8% today, a 25.4% increase.
Our national debt is up 34.4% from 10.627 trillion to 14,278 trillion *
Keep these figures in mind as we recount the number of ‘firsts’ for this presidency:
First President to refuse to show a valid birth certificate.
First President to apply for college aid as a foreign student, then deny he was a foreigner.
First President to have a social security number from a state he has never lived in.
First President to preside over a cut to the credit rating of the United States .
First President to violate the War Powers Act.
First President to be held in contempt of court for illegally obstructing oil drilling in the Gulf of Mexico .
First President to defy a Federal Judges court order to cease implementing the Health Care Reform Law.
First President to require all Americans to purchase a product from a third party.
First President to spend a trillion dollars on shovel-ready jobs and later admit there was no such thing as shovel-ready jobs.
First President to abrogate bankruptcy law to turn over control of companies to his union supporters.
First President to by-pass Congress and implement the Dream Act through executive fiat.
First President to order a secret amnesty program that stopped the deportation of illegal immigrants across the U.S., including those with criminal convictions.
First President to demand a company hand-over $20 billion to one of his political appointees.
First President to terminate America’s ability to put a man in space.
First President to encourage racial discrimination and intimidation at polling places.
First President to have a law signed by an auto-pen without being present.
First President to arbitrarily declare an existing law unconstitutional and refuse to enforce it.
First President to threaten insurance companies if they publicly speak-out on the reasons for their rate increases.
First President to tell a major manufacturing company in which state they are allowed to locate a factory.
First President to file lawsuits against the states he swore an oath to protect (AZ, WI, OH, IN)
First President to withdraw an existing coal permit that had been properly issued years ago.
First President to fire an inspector general of Americorps for catching one of his friends in a corruption case.
First President to appoint 45 Czars to replace elected officials in his office.
First President to golf 73 separate times in his first two and a half years in office.
First President to hide his medical, educational and travel records.
First President to win a Nobel Peace Prize for doing NOTHING to earn it.
First President to coddle American enemies while alienating America’s allies.
First President to publicly bow to Americas enemies while refusing to salute the U.S. Flag.
First President to go on multiple global apology tours.
First President to go on 17 lavish vacations, including date nights and Wednesday evening White House parties for his friends, paid for by the taxpayer.
First President to refuse to wear the U.S. Flag lapel pin.
First President to repeat ‘the Holy Qur’an tells us, ‘ and openly admit ‘the early morning call of the Azan (Islamic call to worship) is the most beautiful sound on earth.’
Remember that 32 months of Obama White House we the people have accumulated national debt at a rate more than 27 times as fast as during the rest of our nation’s entire history, as the Obama’s plan their next extravagant vacation to the Indonesian Island nation of Bali .
Hope and change anyone?
* sources: U.S. Energy Information Administration, Wall Street Journal, Bureau of Labor Statistics, US Dept of Labor, Standard & Poors/Case-Shiller, Federal Reserve, US Treasury, Heritage Foundation.
* sources: U.S. Energy Information Administration, Wall Street Journal, Bureau of Labor Statistics, US Dept of Labor, Standard & Poors/Case-Shiller, Federal Reserve, US Treasury, Heritage Foundation.

This is really wonderful, huh? :roll:

Jim163

October 26th, 2011
12:49 pm

From the book Inside Home Depot….”Marcus estimates this system has created as many as 1,000 Home Depot Millionaires.”Alot of the people who made the most money with us do not have advanced degrees’, adds Blanks.”

AmVet

October 26th, 2011
12:51 pm

Gordon, I have listed some of them repeatedly on this very forum.

Address the BIG THREE.

Drastically reduce military spending.

Reign in Social Security and Medicare costs( though I am out of my league on these, admittedly.)

Also:

End the hundreds of billions of dollars of corporate welfare, handouts, bailouts, subsidies, giveaways and “shelters” every year.*

End the billions more in welfare for the wealthy.*

Restore shareholder, consumer and taxpayer protections and rights.*

(*There is a great deal of info I have posted on these.)

And since we have at least got this subject in the very periphery of right wing consciousness, where are their ideas?

No slogans. Specifics.

OK, off to be a good little capitalist.

I’ll check in later…

Butch Cassidy

October 26th, 2011
12:52 pm

ty webb – “choices made during one’s life(education, career, planning,) will decide what kind of economic effect it will take on the patient and their family.”

And again I give you the employees of Enron, Worldcomm and Countrywide. Apparently they were out sick the day that ty got his magic crystal ball which allows him the ability to see which companies are financially stable and ethically managed so that he can make the right CHOICES in his financial decisions.

RB from Gwinnett

October 26th, 2011
12:54 pm

Geezzz…. The level of absurdity you morons will go to to avoid holding anybody responsible for their own actions is just astounding.

You’re the kind of idiots who make ladder manufacturers pay other idiots for falling off a ladder.

Granny Godzilla

October 26th, 2011
12:55 pm

I see Candidate Cain had a wee problem with paying his own Georgia state taxes.

USinUK

October 26th, 2011
12:55 pm

Guy – 12:48 – you act like PP clinics are on every corner – they’re not. In fact, thanks to anti-choice legislation, a lot of them are getting shut down – so enjoy the rising birth rates!!

ty – “but, again, choices made during one’s life(education, career, planning,) will decide what kind of economic effect it will take on the patient and their family.”

you’re missing the point – your life is affect just as much by things over which you have no control – cutbacks with your company, illness, whether or not your spouse walks out on you

getalife

October 26th, 2011
12:55 pm

So the cons will stay bowed down to 1 % power but the real American patriots will get our country back.

Corporate media is fascinated with this movement and so are the American people.

Jim163

October 26th, 2011
12:56 pm

I guess Butch suggests we should have bailed out Enron to protect the employees..Funny, I thought the OWS crowd is all against bailouts.

Peadawg

October 26th, 2011
12:56 pm

“Yes…..if you receive welfare………..do not have anymore kids!”

That’s actually not a bad idea. At all. How you would enforce it though, I don’t know.

USinUK

October 26th, 2011
12:58 pm

Jim – “I guess Butch suggests we should have bailed out Enron to protect the employees”

I don’t think mind-reading is for you

and well done on missing the point – I hope you enjoyed the breeze as it went by

Armed Liberal

October 26th, 2011
12:59 pm

Jim163

October 26th, 2011
12:49 pm

And Jim continues to dig the hole.

Stop Jim, stop!

Do you even understand what the top 1% is?

No, you do not so please just stop it until you educate yourself just a little bit.

USinUK

October 26th, 2011
12:59 pm

“That’s actually not a bad idea. At all. How you would enforce it though, I don’t know.”

wow.

you guys really aren’t happy unless you’re trying to control someone else’s uterus.

Peadawg

October 26th, 2011
1:01 pm

The whole if you’re on welfare, you shouldn’t be having anymore kids is actually common sense, USinUK.

Gordon

October 26th, 2011
1:01 pm

USinUK,

“by dispensing with ALL deductions, it’ll raise taxes on the wealthy.”

There is no flat-tax rate that will both raise taxes on a significant percentage of the wealty and not devastate the working poor. The bottom 40% of income earners currently pay NEGATIVE tax rates. A flat tax is a bad idea, no matter how you handle deductions.

ty webb

October 26th, 2011
1:02 pm

UsinUK,
Everyone is where they are in life due to choices they have made at one point or another.

JohnnyReb

October 26th, 2011
1:04 pm

Jay, your graph reads “give” them more dollars. Therein lies the problem and the root of you and fellow Moonbats being lost in an alternate universe.

All the money belongs to the earner. The government through force if necessary takes the money from the producer and redistributes it. You guys think when a person retains more of his earning due to tax cuts he has received a gift.

You further think it is a “right” for those without to receive from the government the money they have taken from those who have.

Now, I’m not suggesting that those that have turn their backs on those that don’t. However, you are adding fuel to the fire Obama has started. It can lead to nothing good. He’s doing it because he can’t win reelection on his record. Why are you doing it?

Butch Cassidy

October 26th, 2011
1:05 pm

Jim163 – “I guess Butch suggests we should have bailed out Enron to protect the employees..”

Wow.

getalife

October 26th, 2011
1:05 pm

The first comment on this thread is brilliant :)

Jim163

October 26th, 2011
1:05 pm

Armed..Yes from the CBO report I understand exactly who the 1% are. 13% are Wall Street types. 15% are medical professionals, 8.5% are attorneys. Executives, managers and supervisors working outside of finance accounted for 31%.

SO OWS is protesting 13% of 1% walking with the likes of celebrities that make up the bigger percentage.

Gordon

October 26th, 2011
1:06 pm

AmVet,

“Address the BIG THREE.

“Drastically reduce military spending.

Reign in Social Security and Medicare costs( though I am out of my league on these, admittedly.)”

Totally with you on these, but I see no effort from either side to do either one. And you might as well have stopped here, because the rest of the things you listed don’t amount to a hill of beans compared to these. And when you attempt to reign in entitlement costs, the middle class is going to take an even bigger hit. But that is the reality.

Peadawg

October 26th, 2011
1:06 pm

Aw come on Jay, take my very first comment out of moderation. It’s all in fun.

Party pooper……

Butch Cassidy

October 26th, 2011
1:07 pm

ty webb – “Everyone is where they are in life due to choices they have made at one point or another.”

True, but if the individuals ability to make the right choice is hindered due to circumstances BEYOND their control, how, pray tell, can you arbitrarily lecture someone about their situation based on the chioces that they have made?

getalife

October 26th, 2011
1:08 pm

Haha pea.

Gotcha :)

Granny Godzilla

October 26th, 2011
1:10 pm

Gordon

May I suggest you take a peak at the plan just released by the democrats on the super committee.

Peadawg

October 26th, 2011
1:11 pm

getalife, watch the first 10 seconds of this video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DyKLzBus4h8 – Jeff Dunham and Peanut

Without me this blog would suck-cku-cku :) .

Granny Godzilla

October 26th, 2011
1:11 pm

Granny Godzilla Your comment is awaiting moderation.

October 26th, 2011
1:05 pm
“Everyone is where they are in life due to choices they have made at one point or another.”

Half truth at best

As the vulgar yet popular colloquialism goes

“Sheet” Happens.

Jimmy62

October 26th, 2011
1:12 pm

Sorting out the Democrat’s Tax plans:

Option A: Raise taxes on rich people, redistribute money to those that didn’t earn it, bail out failures big and small, punish success, spend far more money than we have and ignore anything said by anyone who disagrees with these policies. Oh, and give out waivers to the more onerous rules to all big Democrat donators.

Option B: There is no option B, Obama doesn’t make mistakes!!! Any failures are the fault of the world, not Obama!

Granny Godzilla

October 26th, 2011
1:12 pm

I fixed the “sheet”…..not want to offend blog gods….

md

October 26th, 2011
1:12 pm

The choices argument? Not around here…….those three fingers are never pointing back with these folks.

Any OWS sympathizers may want to send out an sos on Mr Moore…….I can empathize with many of the concerns, but this guy as a spokesperson will stop that movement dead in it’s tracks.

Asked last night on CNN to apportion blame between corps, DC, and those that overextended themselves, and his comment “100% corporations”.

He’s killing the movement with that kind of idiocy………….

JohnnyReb

October 26th, 2011
1:13 pm

One more comment, then back to work. A manufacturing partner of ours recently entertained a business man from Saudi Arabia. The arab stated during conversation that there are basically two classes of people in his country: the well off or rich, and those on entitlements. No middle class. He has to bring in labor from the Phillipines to work in his factory. Arabs on entitlements won’t work for another Arab, plus the government continues to pay the entitlements even though there is work for those receiving it.

Sound familiar?

getalife

October 26th, 2011
1:13 pm

The super corrupt congress has a plan.

The 1% have the cons, corporate media and most of corrupt congress fighting for them.

Guess who will lose?

We, the people.

ty webb

October 26th, 2011
1:14 pm

Butch,
Ive been ignoring you, but since you persist..making the wrong choice(regardless of what you’re “hindered” by) is still a choice…don’t know why you keep addressing comments to me…afterall, I’ve been awarded the “dumbest” comment of the day by you, so what do you care what I think.

RB from Gwinnett

October 26th, 2011
1:15 pm

“True, but if the individuals ability to make the right choice is hindered due to circumstances BEYOND their control, how, pray tell, can you arbitrarily lecture someone about their situation based on the chioces that they have made?”

What’s an example of that?

md

October 26th, 2011
1:15 pm

Oh, and when asked about himself being a member of that 1%, his response….”I’m spending MY money to help the folks”……note the emphasis on my.

Why do folks that believe in “share the wealth” not practice what they preach unless others are forced to do the same??

Aquagirl

October 26th, 2011
1:16 pm

.I don’t understand how Nardelli is financially raping me? He hasn’t taken anything from me.

Jim’s problem is he thinks Home Depot created money and economic growth. Like nobody bought building supplies or widgets before we had ugly orange boxes staffed by low-paid workers, with a few rich guys at the top.

The moms and pops run out of business by Home Depot are now dependent on your tax dollars.

Jim, honeybunch, Nardelli left you bleeding from the rectum and you are still clueless.

1811/0311

October 26th, 2011
1:16 pm

“Taxes are what we pay for a civilized society.”

Justic Oliver Wendell Holmes

jm

October 26th, 2011
1:16 pm

“you guys really aren’t happy unless you’re trying to control someone else’s uterus.”

Reversion back to the womb desires….. it was fun for 9 months…..

1811/0311

October 26th, 2011
1:17 pm

Ooops ! ……………. he forgot the tell the “OCCUT*RDS” !

Gordon

October 26th, 2011
1:17 pm

Granny,

I would love to take a look. Can you give me a link?

1811/0311

October 26th, 2011
1:21 pm

“you guys really aren’t happy unless you’re trying to control someone else’s uterus.”

……………… AND …………… when I was in my prime the government controlled a man’s ENTIRE BODY for two years ……….. and sent him to a place he didn’t want to go ………….. where other men tried to kill him !

It was called the DRAFT, and it’s still Constitutional ………….. and draft registration is still required.

So don’t whine to me about women and “control of their bodies” until draft registration also includes women (so far the Supreme Court has ruled against drafting women).

Armed Liberal

October 26th, 2011
1:21 pm

Jim123: now, with that new found knowledge do you still maintain your assertion regarding HD employees being in the 1% due to stock options?

Guy Incognito

October 26th, 2011
1:22 pm

“you guys really aren’t happy unless you’re trying to control someone else’s uterus”

UnU

Not just someone’s…….everyone’s, Right or Left. In a perfect world, you’d have your reproductive abilities turned off, and then when you reach 21, or can prove that you have a job(s) that pay enough to support a family, you can have them turned back on.

The left is all about Social Engineering. This should appeal to many

Granny Godzilla

October 26th, 2011
1:23 pm

Gordon

Front page of Huff Poat

md

October 26th, 2011
1:24 pm

“Like nobody bought building supplies or widgets before we had ugly orange boxes staffed by low-paid workers, with a few rich guys at the top. ”

Ding, ding, ding………and the operative word…..”bought”. If folks had not bought from Home Depot, one couldn’t blame them for paying low wages…………..and the mom and pops may still be around.

But as usual, the finger points elsewhere………

Libertarian

October 26th, 2011
1:25 pm

“In liberal lala land, is anybody ever responsible for their actions?”

Um, no. Also, in liberal lala land, everyone who is rich only got that way because they were in the right place at the right time or because our economy gave them the opportunity to become rich…it has absolutely nothing to do with hard work and/or making the right choices.

getalife

October 26th, 2011
1:27 pm

The Italians pols are fighting:

“There is a climate of violence and intolerance,” said Amedeo Ciccanti from the centrist UDC party. “We need to calm down because Italians are more irritated than us about this.”

The EU thingie has Germany saying they should not take peace for granted.

Yeehaw.

Gordon

October 26th, 2011
1:27 pm

Granny,

Never mind. I looked it up myself. They want 1.2 trillion over 10 years with a balance between revenue and cuts, with much of the cuts coming from defense. All that’s fine with me. But the only reason that can request balance is that the amount of deficit reduction is so small. That is also why they can leave entitlements basically untouched. Unfortunately, $120 billion a year is chump change when you have a 1.4T deficit and a 14T debt. If anyone on either side ever really gets serious about deficit reduction, the kind that will actually get spending under control, entitlements will have to be cut and there will be $10 in cuts for every $1 in revenue increases. Depite all the talk about the wealthy, taxing them to death doesn’t raise near enough revenue to make a dent in the deficit, and that’s assuming there is no adverse effect on the economy.

Sorry, I’m not impressed. Next….

St Simons - we're on Island time

October 26th, 2011
1:28 pm

all the ideology aside, there are actually some pretty good tax ideas in the comments, by both groups, i’m taking a few notes

RB from Gwinnett

October 26th, 2011
1:28 pm

If it were the Klan camping out down in the park, would all you OWS sympathizers still be preaching their “right” to be there?

Armed Liberal

October 26th, 2011
1:29 pm

md

October 26th, 2011
1:24 pm

But how did HD’s founders find themselves with the potential to do what they did?

In a vacuum?

Or perhaps it is because we’ve paid for roads, education, infrastructure and the like?

Without all that and more, HD would not exist.

Two men alone did not create HD.

USinUK

October 26th, 2011
1:30 pm

“UsinUK,
Everyone is where they are in life due to choices they have made at one point or another.”

ah.

no.

many people are muddling along just fine until a serious illness happens and drives them to bankruptcy

many families are doing just fine until someone dies or abandons them

sorry, but your statement doesn’t hold water – not 100% of the time

getalife

October 26th, 2011
1:30 pm

I think we are witnessing the end of the globalization scam for the 1 %.

Bring our jobs back home and end this scam.

Normal

October 26th, 2011
1:30 pm

RB from Gwinnett

October 26th, 2011
1:28 pm

Absolutely! I don’t have to agree with them, but I’ll defend their right to free speech and assembly.

USinUK

October 26th, 2011
1:31 pm

Guy – WORLD of difference between social engineering to ensure people have equal access to opportunities and social engineering to remove / withhold a basic human right.

F. Sinkwich

October 26th, 2011
1:34 pm

Looks like Barry is going after the “Ethnic Studies” vote:

“The Obama Administration announced it will accelerate changes in the federal loan program to make it easier for certain students to repay their loans. Students enrolled in the Income Based Repayment Plan will have their payments capped at 10 percent of discretionary income starting next year, and any remaining balance after 20 years will be forgiven.”

md

October 26th, 2011
1:34 pm

“The EU thingie has Germany saying they should not take peace for granted.”

Or taking the existence of the EU for granted…….the “producers” are questioning the whole concept at this point…….the ultimate experiment in socialistic concepts……..Greece (and others) asking for continual bailouts after they spent the money and collected no taxes………doesn’t fly too well at the moment.

Granny Godzilla

October 26th, 2011
1:36 pm

Gordon

Not Impressed? Golly.

“U.S. Democrats are proposing $2.5 trillion to $3 trillion in measures to reduce the budget deficit, including revenue increases and significant cuts to Medicare, congressional aides told Reuters.

The plan was unveiled Tuesday at a closed-door meeting of a special 12-member congressional panel, the so-called ‘’super committee”, that is tasked with finding at least $1.2 trillion in deficit reduction over 10 years.”

It certainly much more impressive than the GOP alternative.

Guy Incognito

October 26th, 2011
1:36 pm

“RB from Gwinnett

October 26th, 2011
1:28 pm
If it were the Klan camping out down in the park, would all you OWS sympathizers still be preaching their “right” to be there?”

Zing!

Of course they wouldn’t. They are the elite. They decide which speech falls under the 1st Amend, and which should be squelched.

Gordon

October 26th, 2011
1:37 pm

Armed Liberal,

Yes Blank and Marcus used roads, education, infrastructure, etc. while building HD, but THEY PAID for those things like all of us do. They had an innovative idea, which most of us do not. They took risk, which most of us do not. They worked harder and longer than most of us do. You have the same opportunity they did. And if you succeed, you will be rewarded handsomely (and pay higher taxes) just like them.

USinUK

October 26th, 2011
1:37 pm

“.the ultimate experiment in socialistic concepts”

ohsweetjeebus, would you people PLEASE learn the meaning of the word “socialist” and “socialism” before you go throwing it around???

really. it just makes you look stupid when you misuse it this way.

Granny Godzilla

October 26th, 2011
1:38 pm

RB

Hate the Klan….but would support their rights!

Like the Nazi’s in Skokie….

Wouldn’t you?

md

October 26th, 2011
1:38 pm

Armed liberal,

The point is, HD could not exist without the support of the consumers………all that other stuff is window dressing.

We the people (the consumers) dictate which corps survive and which do not…..yet folks here want to blame whoever they can except the ones with the actual power……………

Look in the mirror folks……..your wages are stagnant because of your own spending habits……….

Want it to change? Quit buying all that crap that gets imported………………..

USinUK

October 26th, 2011
1:39 pm

What GG said – 1:38

rights is rights.

USinUK

October 26th, 2011
1:40 pm

heck, I even support Rush’s right to yell Theater in a crowded fireplace

Kamchak

October 26th, 2011
1:41 pm

If it were the Klan camping out down in the park, would all you OWS sympathizers still be preaching their “right” to be there?”

If unicorns crapped skittles, would Mars go out of business?

md

October 26th, 2011
1:42 pm

“ohsweetjeebus, would you people PLEASE learn the meaning of the word “socialist” and “socialism” before you go throwing it around???”

Right after you learn the meaning of socialist…IC………………….

Words do have meaning…….learn them.

F. Sinkwich

October 26th, 2011
1:43 pm

Feeling a bit down today? We can always count on Barry to cheer us up:

” At a San Francisco fundraiser yesterday, the President had this to say: “We have lost our ambition, our imagination, and our willingness to do the things that built the Golden Gate bridge.”

President Malaise.

ty webb

October 26th, 2011
1:44 pm

UsinUK,
ummm, again the illness itself doesn’t bankrupt anyone, the expense of medicine or teatment does…someones ability to pay for the medicine or treatment of the illness is directly related to choices regarding education, career, and financial planning which that person either chose to make or chose not to make at some point in their life.

and if after the death of a spouse, or a spouse leaving, a person cannot survive economically, that too can be traced to choices he or she made(or not) at one point during their life.

USinUK

October 26th, 2011
1:44 pm

md – “Right after you learn the meaning of socialist…”

what is that – the corollary to “I know you are but what am I?”"

truly, your powers of rhetoric are astounding.

Gordon

October 26th, 2011
1:45 pm

Granny,

Well I stand corrected. The link I found was old. However what I am reading on HP does not give many details. I am impressed with the Medicare cuts, but let’s see what the assumptions are and other details.

Sadly, even these numbers are woefully inadequate. We’re still talking about less than a fourth of the deficit. But I’ll give the Democrats credit at this point for attacking the real problem.

Granny Godzilla

October 26th, 2011
1:45 pm

In fact…

ANYBODY HERE got a problem with the KKK (icky poo) excersizing their
first amendment rights?

Anybody?

USinUK

October 26th, 2011
1:46 pm

“ummm, again the illness itself doesn’t bankrupt anyone, the expense of medicine or teatment does…someones ability to pay for the medicine or treatment of the illness is directly related to choices regarding education, career, and financial planning which that person either chose to make or chose not to make at some point in their life.”

yeah – because insurance ALWAYS pays – and they pay for EVERYthing – particularly long-term illnesses.

“and if after the death of a spouse, or a spouse leaving, a person cannot survive economically, that too can be traced to choices he or she made(or not) at one point during their life.”

bollocks – I guess that’s why nearly ALL women following a divorce are worse off than their husbands – because they ALL made bad choices.

USinUK

October 26th, 2011
1:46 pm

and with that, I’m Audi

Bosch

October 26th, 2011
1:46 pm

“would all you OWS sympathizers still be preaching their “right” to be there?”

Yeap, sure would.

md

October 26th, 2011
1:47 pm

usuk……it’s a word that has actual meaning……..look it up and learn something.

You may also look at “capitalistic” while you are at it and maybe you will see the difference…….

SS, Medicare, Medicaid, etc are examples of “socialistic” programs………

Granny Godzilla

October 26th, 2011
1:48 pm

ty webb

how should the families who had members in the WTC have planned financially for that particular event?

Bosch

October 26th, 2011
1:49 pm

“They had an innovative idea, which most of us do not. They took risk, which most of us do not. They worked harder and longer than most of us do. You have the same opportunity they did”

They also had the money to do it, and they also would not have gotten anywhere without the consumers to buy their stuff.

Corporations do not happen without people to buy their stuff.

Geez, you people can be rather obtuse sometimes.

Guy Incognito

October 26th, 2011
1:50 pm

Kam

“If unicorns crapped skittles, would Mars go out of business?”

That’s funny, I don’t care who you are…and I’m stealing it.

Jim163

October 26th, 2011
1:53 pm

Armed, CBO reported that anyone who made more than $343,927 made it to the coveted 1%. So if Home Depot employees exercised their options and made more than that, I consider them to be a member of the 1%.

md

October 26th, 2011
1:53 pm

“how should the families who had members in the WTC have planned financially for that particular event?”

Life insurance?

Jm

October 26th, 2011
1:53 pm

Democrats are crazy

The hill reports they are trying to put stimulus in the deficit reduction package

What?!?!!!!?!

Democrats ate cluuuuuueless and look ridiculous

Jm

October 26th, 2011
1:54 pm

Putting stimulus and tax increases in the deficit reduction plan

That is just not going to fly with republicans

ty webb

October 26th, 2011
1:55 pm

UsinUk,
I never said anything about insurace. but yes buying it or not is a choice…one could also pay out of pocket for healthcare. If they can’t afford that, then yes, that too can be attributed to choices that person made in life.

and as for divorce…that’s a choice too, and it’s the best choice in many case.

Gordon

October 26th, 2011
1:56 pm

“They also had the money to do it, and they also would not have gotten anywhere without the consumers to buy their stuff.

Corporations do not happen without people to buy their stuff.

Geez, you people can be rather obtuse sometimes.”

They didn’t just “have” the money to build HD, they found investors who liked their idea. Ever heard of venture capital? And they have customers because they were smart enough to produce a service that people wanted. And you’re calling me obtuse?

Kamchak

October 26th, 2011
1:56 pm

That is just not going to fly with republicans

What a naif.

Nothing the Democrats ever do will fly with Republicans.

Armed Liberal

October 26th, 2011
1:56 pm

md

October 26th, 2011
1:38 pm

Agreed to a degree.

The simple fact is the creation of any business relies on what we have created as a country through taxing ourselves and providing education etc…

To say that HD or any business is created by the work of the company founders is too simple and mostly a lie. Their ideas only come to fruition because of the work done by government.

Consumer spending is the scorecard, reflected in P&Ls and balance sheets and all that jazz. If HD is better in the eyes of the consumer, it’ll thrive. (Based on my trip there this weekend, they’re slowly dieing though)

Chuck W

October 26th, 2011
1:58 pm

I love how so many people here are claiming that the poor are being taxed more today. My cousin who works part time at Walmart, don’t feel bad she cleans houses for money under the table, and last year she had around $1100 withheld from her check for federal tax. Somehow when she got her welfare um,um…er I mean “Tax Rebate” she got over $2900.00 dollars back. She got $1800.00 more back than she put in, someone please explain to me how that is a tax increase. Of course she did the responsible thing with the money, she bought a 52″ Flat Screen television and a blue ray player, then the next month she borrowed money from my mother to pay her rent and buy food for her kids. I grew up in government apartments and I knew a lot of people that were “poor”, they always seemed to have their beer, Jim Beam, and weed though. Quite a few of “poor” people don’t have economic problems they have behavior problems.

Bosch

October 26th, 2011
1:59 pm

“Ever heard of venture capital?”

Yes, Gordon, like I wrote, they had the money to do it. Your average Joe can’t just go out and whip up an armload of investors. And yes, I am calling you obtuse.

Halftrack

October 26th, 2011
1:59 pm

Jay, Why do you trust the CBO – - – it always supports the party in power. Get a second opinion. Why not try the Heritage Foundation for that. What % of earned money should people be able to keep? 50% of people pay no Federal Income Taxes already.

Aquagirl

October 26th, 2011
2:00 pm

Look in the mirror folks……..your wages are stagnant because of your own spending habits.

Sure, people will generally buy what’s cheaper and more convenient. But how do Home Depot and other big boxes do this. Brilliant, innovative thinking? HAHAHAHA!

Who do you think will benefit more from the welfare proj—-excuse me, the Savannah Harbor deepening, Fred’s Hardware or Home Depot?

Do you think benefits more from loosening restrictions on the trucking industry? Fred’s Hardware or Home Depot?

Who do you think can influence local politicians to re-zone an area for their benefit, Fred’s Hardware or Home Depot?

Home Depot offers lower prices because they can buy in bulk, which requires a large taxpayer supported infrastructure (if you think those trucks pay for themselves you’re smoking crack) and the ability to re-zone areas for their huge stores. (Local residents deal with the extra traffic produced by concentrating sales in one place.)

Home Depot has enormous advantages over the little guy because of your TAX DOLLARS.

If you didn’t read the story on the Atlanta Bread Company meltdown yesterday, it really sums this up. The owners of the company are back to making money hand over fist. The small business owners who owned the franchises aren’t. BTW, those people took out SBA loans which have not been repaid, so you’re getting screwed too.

Meanwhile, the “deserving” slime at the top are laughing all the way to the bank. (Which was also probably bailed out by taxpayers.)

Keep bowing to your masters. The rest of us realize our legs aren’t wet because it’s raining.

Bosch

October 26th, 2011
2:00 pm

“My cousin who works part time at Walmart,”

AAAANNNNDDDDD I stop reading. Another example of anecdotal evidence that means absolutely nothing to me.

Kamchak

October 26th, 2011
2:00 pm

Why not try the Heritage Foundation for that.

There’s your sign.

md

October 26th, 2011
2:00 pm

“The simple fact is the creation of any business relies on what we have created as a country through taxing ourselves and providing education etc…”

Don’t necessarily agree…….plenty of businesses operate in countries that have crappy roads and crappy education…….it’s still about the consumers………….

Paul

October 26th, 2011
2:01 pm

A chart even a conservative Republican can love.

But not like.

As witnessed by all the deflection comments.

getalife “At what point will you cons oppose helping the 1 %?”

When they receive more in benefits and pay less in taxes than the lowest 1%.

Bosch

October 26th, 2011
2:01 pm

“Why not try the Heritage Foundation for that.”

OMG, I just threw up in my mouth a little.

Paul

October 26th, 2011
2:01 pm

Make that “A chart even a conservative Republican can UNDERSTAND.”

Gordon

October 26th, 2011
2:02 pm

We all know there are people who are poor primarily because of bad choices and others who are poor because of some unforseen circumstance like an accident, illness, or the like. The problem is that we treat both situations the same. We see someone who is poor and stop asking questions. Sometimes lack of resources is the problem, and sometimes it is a symptom of a larger problem.

It would be interesting to really delve down and find out why adults who are poor are in that condition. Is it 50/50? 80/20 in favor of bad decisions? 80/20 in favor of bad luck? What do you think?

stands for decibels

October 26th, 2011
2:02 pm

Jeez, I walk away for a coupla hours and it turns into the Persnull Sponsubility wankfest.

Back when it doesn’t stink so bad in here.

Armed Liberal

October 26th, 2011
2:02 pm

Jim163

October 26th, 2011
1:53

I see you are perhaps new to the world of stock options.

In your world are they recurring payouts? Can one cash them in year after year?

I ask because in my world they are one time opportunities. They inflate earnings in the FY you monetize them.

The 1% does not refer to wealth, it refers to income.

Paul

October 26th, 2011
2:03 pm

Bosch

Between reading Jay’s chart and sucking Coke up your nose and throwing up at the comments, you’re having a rough time with this thread, aren’t you?

Bosch

October 26th, 2011
2:03 pm

Gordon,

Who cares? In a capitalistic society, there will always be poor people.

It is NOT your job to judge them.

Kamchak

October 26th, 2011
2:03 pm

We all know…

Geez…not this crap again.

:roll:

USMC

October 26th, 2011
2:04 pm

“I’m a flat-tax girl, myself –flat tax, no deductions. look it up, that’s what I’ve always advocated”–USinUK

So where do we disagree, USinUK???
My first “snarky” comment was against the current tax code and the ridiculous fact that mostly Liberals argue against a FLAT or FAIR Tax; as though the current Tax code makes ANY sense.

So, I am for a Flat tax or Fair tax…. No Corporate Overlords :-)

Cheerio!

md

October 26th, 2011
2:04 pm

Who do you think will benefit more from the welfare proj—-excuse me, the Savannah Harbor deepening, Fred’s Hardware or Home Depot?

Again, depends on the consumer……..folks don’t buy from HD, they won’t be shipping squat……..

Do you think benefits more from loosening restrictions on the trucking industry? Fred’s Hardware or Home Depot?

Fred’s Hardware if the folks choose them over HD……..

Who do you think can influence local politicians to re-zone an area for their benefit, Fred’s Hardware or Home Depot?

Should be neither, but folks also control who they send to DC to take those bribes…….

Armed Liberal

October 26th, 2011
2:04 pm

md

October 26th, 2011
2:00 pm

we’ll have to agree to disagree

That Black guy

October 26th, 2011
2:05 pm

October 26th, 2011
11:13 am
Jm – “How about we just dial back loopholes and reduce entitlements for the wealthiest rather than raising rates?”

Aaaaannddd….Come on, say it with me. Allow the OBAMA tax cuts to expire across the board for EVERYBODY.

Fixed that for ya.

Bosch

October 26th, 2011
2:06 pm

Paul,

Yes, I am always in awe of the arrogance of people who sit there and sanctimoniously judge other people.

Those are usually the same people who will quote you a Bible verse or two, but then will turn around with their hypocritical selves and forget that the very foundation of their belief system is that all men are valued and deemed worthy of redemption and grace.

USMC

October 26th, 2011
2:07 pm

LOL! What a bunch of Hypocrites!

At ‘Occupy Wall Street,’ Capitalism Is Alive and Well
http://www.cnbc.com/id/45047264

And I bet most of these OWS “sick, lame and lazies” have an IPHONE… you know that gadget from that BIG CORPORATION, Apple???

Butch Cassidy

October 26th, 2011
2:08 pm

ty webb – “ummm, again the illness itself doesn’t bankrupt anyone, the expense of medicine or teatment does…someones ability to pay for the medicine or treatment of the illness is directly related to choices regarding education, career, and financial planning which that person either chose to make or chose not to make at some point in their life.

and if after the death of a spouse, or a spouse leaving, a person cannot survive economically, that too can be traced to choices he or she made(or not) at one point during their life.”

Okay genius lets use a real world example like Enron . The employes work hard for a supposedly “successful” company, and check their shares worth 1.5 million on Monday, and by Friday those same shares are worth 100 dollars due to the malfeasence of the Executives and their accounting procedures. (Hence the need for Sarbanes-Oxley). The employees are prohibited ftom dumping their shares while at the same time Ken Lay is singing the companies praises and unloading his shares as fast as possible. So the executives make millions, and the employees including those at Arthur Anderson lose EVERYTHING when the operation implodes. According to your logic, these employees just made bad choices?

USMC

October 26th, 2011
2:08 pm

“That Black guy”

HUH! That sounds R@cist! :-)

Paul

October 26th, 2011
2:09 pm

Bosch

God does the forgiveness thing.

They do the judging thing.

’cause they know the Truth -

md

October 26th, 2011
2:09 pm

“Home Depot offers lower prices because they can buy in bulk”

So?

Folks don’t have to buy based on price…….but if one does, don’t point the finger at others when the consequences come home to roost……………..

Salaries have been stagnant because we the people have been focused on price for decades………not worrying about the ramifications of our purchases…….

Do you actually think jobs would be going overseas if folks didn’t buy the products being shipped back??

Hell no…………

That Black guy

October 26th, 2011
2:10 pm

Jay, the only problem with your graph is the use of the word “GIVE”. How do you GIVE some one something that is already theirs?

That’s like a carjacker deciding not to rob me of my car. Did he “GIVE” me the car?

Normal

October 26th, 2011
2:10 pm

Good Old John McCain, Republican Navy Veteran and Patriot looking after his own…

“In the mix is a radical proposal from Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., that would have potentially far-reaching effects on the health care of retirees and active-duty family members. McCain, ranking Republican on the Senate Armed Services Committee, has proposed barring military retirees from signing up for Tricare Prime, the least expensive Tricare option available to them.”

http://www.navytimes.com/news/2011/10/military-mccain-eyes-barring-retirees-from-tricare-prime-102511/

Guy Incognito

October 26th, 2011
2:10 pm

“I just threw up in my mouth a little”

Why do we have taste receptors in our throats? If we didn’t, then the half-puke wouldn’t be so bad.

And with that, I’m gone.

Chuck W

October 26th, 2011
2:10 pm

If you use the armed force of the government and take all the wealth in this country into one pot and “equally” distribute it out to everyone, which is the Democratic Parties dream. In 5 years most of the the people that were rich before will be rich again and most of the poor people will be poor again. I know what I am about to say is “anecdotal evidence” but I grew up very poor and it took a lot of years for me to learn how not to be poor. Most of you people that are screaming about the rich and the poor, have never been either one so you need your charts and graphs to understand the situation, I have been both so I do not need them.

Paul

October 26th, 2011
2:11 pm

USMC

“LOL! What a bunch of Hypocrites!

At ‘Occupy Wall Street,’ Capitalism Is Alive and Well”

What part of “Big banks and investment house leaders made bad decisions, taxpayers save their companies, those same taxpayers lost their jobs and homes because of those leaders’ bad decisions, the leaders gave themselves millions in bonuses, none of them bore responsibility for their actions’

don’t you understand?

Paul

October 26th, 2011
2:13 pm

Bosch

“If you use the armed force of the government and take all the wealth in this country into one pot and “equally” distribute it out to everyone, which is the Democratic Parties dream”

the ignorance, it never ends -

Zedd

October 26th, 2011
2:13 pm

Wow, just wow. Perry’s plan only comes out this week, and yet some how Jay has managed to analyze his plan and all the others, master their plans, label them, stamp then, and declare victory while dancing around the fire like a wild Indian. And you got your master’s in economics from where? Or was it a master’s in accounting? And you’ve worked in those fields for how long? Typical lame stream media now days. So quick to paint with those broad brushes, label it, and spin it.

Paulo977

October 26th, 2011
2:14 pm

Am Vet :The American giant has finally been awakened.
And the self-destructive wimps will not be able to stop it!!!!

It’s the way of things …they start out small and soon assume huge proportions …. reason for the exploiters to be scared…
Though only a whisper now, who knows where it is headed!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69tpM3krG3A&feature=related

md

October 26th, 2011
2:14 pm

“What part of “Big banks and investment house leaders made bad decisions, taxpayers save their companies, those same taxpayers lost their jobs and homes because of those leaders’ bad decisions, the leaders gave themselves millions in bonuses, none of them bore responsibility for their actions’

don’t you understand?”

The part about the gov’t giving them our money with zero conditions…………….even banks know not to lend to risky businesses with out some kind of conditions……..Us (gov’t)….not so much.

Bosch

October 26th, 2011
2:14 pm

Paul,

I think they got that backwards! :)

Kamchak

October 26th, 2011
2:15 pm

Typical lame stream media now days. So quick to paint with those broad brushes, label it, and spin it.

Too funny!

Glass house, meet stone.

Bosch

October 26th, 2011
2:15 pm

Paul,

“the ignorance, it never ends -”

Yes, and the stoopid also burns, have ya’ heard??

Generation$crewed

October 26th, 2011
2:15 pm

Bosch

October 26th, 2011
2:03 pm

Nor is it your job to judge the rich.

Some did work harder than others, some were smarter than others, some were willing to take more risk than others, some came from absolutely nothing, and some were born with the silver spoon, and others cheated, or did immoral things to get their money.

Jim163

October 26th, 2011
2:18 pm

The 1% does not refer to wealth, it refers to income.

Glad to see that Buffett doesn’t belong to that group because he only accepts an income of $100k. You guys should also quit talking about how he pays less in taxes then his secretary because that is taxes on his wealth not income.

md

October 26th, 2011
2:18 pm

“Nor is it your job to judge the rich.”

But, but, but…..they have it…..so that is the only variable in the equation………….

Bosch

October 26th, 2011
2:18 pm

GS,

“Nor is it your job to judge the rich.”

Whose doing that? Did you stretch before making that leap? Wouldn’t want you to pull a hamstring.

The operative word in your argument, “some” and it can just as easily be countered with “some” did not.

Gordon

October 26th, 2011
2:18 pm

Bosch,

In a society where the poor are supported with other people’s money, it is fair to ask why they are poor, what solutions are appropriate based on the answer to that question, and what can be done to prevent it. If that is “judging” in your eyes then so be it.

Adam

October 26th, 2011
2:19 pm

RB: A single mom without the education to support 3 kids should not be having 3 kids. Choices have consequences and those consequences are not the responsibility of the federal government to bear at the expense of 53% of taxpayers.

Bad choice no. 1 – not having the education needed to support your 3 kids.

Bad choice no. 2 – Having 3 kids you can’t take care of.

In liberal lala land, is anybody ever responsible for their actions?

So, RB, how would the conservative land legislate consequences for bad choices? Since that is obviously where you’re heading with this. The person made bad choices, therefore, they should work hard for the rest of their lives and never get a second chance at having a good life for themselves and their kids.

Seriously though, how would you change things in government so that this person could have had the education you judgmentally say she needs? How would you legislate her not having 3 kids? I’m sure making abortion illegal would work WONDERS towards making people have LESS kids.

md

October 26th, 2011
2:19 pm

“You guys should also quit talking about how he pays less in taxes then his secretary because that is taxes on his wealth not income.”

Can’t have the warfare without misleading the masses……….it is prudent to a sound warfare policy…..

Zedd

October 26th, 2011
2:20 pm

“Glass house, meet stone”…..Stone thrower meet 12 gauge Remington shot gun with custom loaded rock salt rounds for deviants. Oooh, that’s gotta sting!

Libertarian

October 26th, 2011
2:21 pm

Bosch

“The 1% of the people who own the wealth in this country did not get it simply because they worked harder than anyone else.”

That sounds a little like judgement to me Bosch. You’re doing exactly what you’re saying others should not do with regard to the poor. Painting with a very broad brush and using no facts to back up your statements.

Adam

October 26th, 2011
2:22 pm

Guy Incognito: do not have anymore kids! Or is that to hard to grasp? As far as I know, PP will GIVE you birth control

Nah, they can’t afford that since 93% of what they do is abortions :roll:

Of course, you could LEGISLATE that every woman who is on welfare have a forced procedure that makes them infertile. Forever. After all, none of THOSE PEOPLE deserve a second chance anyway….

Aquagirl

October 26th, 2011
2:22 pm

Folks don’t have to buy based on price…….

No disagreement there, md…but what in the h3ll does that have to do with the idea that Nardelli “deserves” a fat paycheck for outstanding brilliance? Unless you think manipulating the system for welfare is the sort of brilliance we should admire and reward in our country. The cousin upthread with the 52 inch TV is a genius, we need more of that to jump start our economy?

Uh-uh, you are squirming like a worm on a hot sidewalk trying to defend people who’ve ripped you off. If you’re embarrassed you got fooled by these robber barons, man up and say so. Take your medicine. But stop weaseling around with any distraction that pops into your head. Maybe that works at your Tea Parties, folks here are smarter than that and we aren’t biting.

Paul

October 26th, 2011
2:23 pm

Bosch

“Yes, and the stoopid also burns, have ya’ heard??”

Yes, I have. It’s what led to the ignorance comment.

Zedd

It isn’t difficult to do even a cursory analysis.

You can keep the current rates for income tax or opt for the 20 percent plan. The only people who will opt are people who will save money. Those are the people at the upper end of the income scale. Therefore, revenue decreases and the deficit increases.

Perry himself said a family making above the average would not pay taxes. This will increase the number of households who pay no income tax.

It’s kinda simple, yes?

Or, as Jm pointed out this morning, you can go to the National Review’s website and read their analysis of Perry’s plan. Which they said… will lower revenue, increase the deficit and not affect spending.

Bosch

October 26th, 2011
2:23 pm

Sure Gordon, those are fair questions to ask, but it is rather obtuse to believe that it is just a lack of personal responsibility to explain why a person is in the situation they are in.

And as Adam just pointed out, everyone makes bad choices, it’s human nature, but we do not have the same support system and resources in place to bounce back from those bad choices. You are judging others by pretending you too have never made a mistake and holding them to a different standard.

jm

October 26th, 2011
2:24 pm

OMG Dems are retards. Several have said they hope the deficit super committee fails. Meaning they hope America fails.

Vote R 2012.

Paul

October 26th, 2011
2:25 pm

Jim163

“You guys should also quit talking about how he pays less in taxes then his secretary because that is taxes on his wealth not income.”

You may want to double check your source for that.

I think you’ll find Buffet said if you look at his income and his secretary’s income, he pays a lower percentage of his income in taxes than does his secretary.

Adam

October 26th, 2011
2:26 pm

ty webb: Everyone is where they are in life due to choices they have made at one point or another.

Including, but not limited to:

-Economic and social position of the parents at birth (you CHOSE your parents, didn’t you?)
-Economic and social situation in the area in which the person lives as a child (You CHOSE where to live, didn’t you?)
-Quality of schooling as a child (You CHOSE those teachers, didn’t you?)

etc etc. It’s all abut CHOICES, don’t you see? The choices YOU made are the only ones affecting your life!

Scooter

October 26th, 2011
2:27 pm

Wow, an info-graphic developed from a op-ed writer’s interpretation of statistical data. What would Mark Twain have said?

Gordon

October 26th, 2011
2:27 pm

Bosch,

Why don’t you go back and read my post? No one who did could possibly say that it said anything like “just a lack of personal responsibility explains why a person is in the situation they are in”. The point was that there are different reasons, yet we treat all situations the same.

I think maybe you have fallen into the habit of reading the first line of a post and then making assumptions.

Bosch

October 26th, 2011
2:27 pm

“That sounds a little like judgement to me Bosch”

Nope, wrong. That’s not a judgement, or better yet, an opinion, it’s called common sense. Everyone in that income bracket did not get that way simply because they put in more physical labor or hours than the rest of us.

To argue that point exclusively is simply wrong.

md

October 26th, 2011
2:28 pm

“No disagreement there, md…but what in the h3ll does that have to do with the idea that Nardelli “deserves” a fat paycheck for outstanding brilliance? ”

Would Nardelli have any money to get a big fat paycheck if consumers didn’t buy the products from HD?

Once again, the consumers dictate the outcome……not the other way around.

Shoot, anyone can incorporate for next to nothing these days………think they can write themselves a big fat check without consumers?

And shareholders can so no to folks like Nardelli as well…….just sell their stock.

These folks can only control us if we allow them to……..don’t like it, organize against the products…….not the system………the products dictate the outcome.

Paul

October 26th, 2011
2:28 pm

md

“The part about the gov’t giving them our money with zero conditions…………….even banks know not to lend to risky businesses with out some kind of conditions……..Us (gov’t)….not so much.”

I forgot to add, many of the protestors saw their retirement savings halved or wiped out because the financial house leaders made bad decisions, suffered no repercussions and rewarded themselves with millions in bonuses.

But the sound bit repeaters never want to acknowledge that.

pat

October 26th, 2011
2:28 pm

So, this antiquated dinosaur inefficient, horrendously costly to run, unfair, and horrendously complicated system implemented in early 20th century is the best case scenario?
That’s it we’ve peeked, we can’t do better?

Next you’re going to try to convince me that obama’s policies actually worked and the apparent failure of everything is just a GOP mirage.

Every proposal on the table right now is better than what we have. Only a complete unadulterated idiot would think the current system is in any way good. That or you’re a CPA. I can understand why they like it.

Adam

October 26th, 2011
2:29 pm

Scout: So don’t whine to me about women and “control of their bodies” until draft registration also includes women

Don’t whine to me about the draft including women until a man also has a uterus.

The argument makes about as much sense as yours.

Armed Liberal

October 26th, 2011
2:30 pm

Jim163

October 26th, 2011
2:18 pm

You are being disengenuous.

That 100K is salary. If you believe that is his income, you aren’t worth the back and forth.

Gordon

October 26th, 2011
2:30 pm

“Everyone in that income bracket did not get that way simply because they put in more physical labor or hours than the rest of us. ”

In other words, people are rich for different reasons. Which is EXACTLY what I said about the poor and then get accused of judging them.

Bosch

October 26th, 2011
2:31 pm

Gordon,

I’m talking about the general consensus of the wingnuts here who make that argument. Who doesn’t believe someone should be personally responsible?

And Libertarian,

Don’t you sit there and lecture me about painting with broad brushes when you see post after post of wingnuts carry on about how liberals think or assuming what they believe.

md

October 26th, 2011
2:31 pm

“-Economic and social position of the parents at birth (you CHOSE your parents, didn’t you?)
-Economic and social situation in the area in which the person lives as a child (You CHOSE where to live, didn’t you?)
-Quality of schooling as a child (You CHOSE those teachers, didn’t you?)”

By law, children are wards of the parent/guardian up to certain ages…..so yes, choice is there….the choice of the one in charge……after that, the new child/adult takes over……but there is also a period of overlapping choice……..

Libertarian

October 26th, 2011
2:31 pm

Bosch

You made it sound like everyone in that income bracket got there because they were “given” opportunities from our economic system that the other 99% were not given.

To argue that point exclusively is simply wrong.

Jim163

October 26th, 2011
2:32 pm

Paul,

You are wrong. I am a shareholder and it states clearly in the financial report that Buffett only accepts $100k a year in income. The other taxes he refers to are the taxes on returns of capital investments in the forms of dividends which are taxed at a 16% rate. I am just saying that if it excludes employees who exercise options because it is wealth, it should also exclude Buffett.

Libertarian

October 26th, 2011
2:33 pm

Bosch,

Its not a lecture, its an opinion ;-)

Paul

October 26th, 2011
2:33 pm

pat

“Every proposal on the table right now is better than what we have.”

Why?

Armed Liberal

October 26th, 2011
2:34 pm

md – let’s focus on the consumer spending part of your point and abandon the specific HD example – you game?

% of economy supported by Consumer Spending: ???
Delta of same month over month & YoY: ???

What is a prudent response from the gov’t?

md

October 26th, 2011
2:34 pm

“I forgot to add, many of the protestors saw their retirement savings halved or wiped out because the financial house leaders made bad decisions, suffered no repercussions and rewarded themselves with millions in bonuses.”

And who allowed the zero repercussions and the subsequent bonuses??

Our wonderful misfits that had the upper hand yet failed miserably during the negotiation phase……..

Paul

October 26th, 2011
2:34 pm

Jim163

“You are wrong. I am a shareholder and it states clearly in the financial report that Buffett only accepts $100k a year in income.”

So…. you are taking the position that Buffet’s IRS Form 1040 shows his total income is $100,000?

Chuck W

October 26th, 2011
2:35 pm

I am not in the top 1% of incomes in America, but I fall somewhere in the top 10%. I got there by risking everything I owned several times, I have worked 70 to 80 hours a week for years, I did things that I didn’t want to do many times. I now have the company that I always wanted and I have put over 200 people to work directly ans many more to work indirectly, but now I am supposed to feel bad about myself because I have been successful, while others haven’t. Oh yeah I shouldn’t say successfull I should say “Fortunate” because the only difference between me and the drunk in the gutter is “LUCK”.

Libertarian

October 26th, 2011
2:35 pm

Gordon

When liberals on the blog makes broad sweeping generalizations about a certain part of society, its an “opinion” but when righties do it, its “judgment.”

Gordon

October 26th, 2011
2:35 pm

Bosch,

How about next time you respond to a post I make you do so based on what I wrote rather than “the general consensus of wingnuts here”. You said “That does not give you the right to judge them”. I guess that word “you” made me think you were talking to me.

Generation$crewed

October 26th, 2011
2:37 pm

Bosch

October 26th, 2011
2:18 pm

Included the word some.

You however did not……

“The 1% of the people who own the wealth in this country did not get it simply because they worked harder than anyone else.”

Then tell us how they got it?

Some did just that and they worked harder than anyone else in their field.

Again I guess we all get to play do as Bosch says but not as he does…..

Seems you are good at casting stones not so much at recieving them, and that is a judgment by me….. one confirmed weekly by your do as I say not as I do type post.

Be consistent….. even with yourself

Adam

October 26th, 2011
2:38 pm

Libertarian: From your earlier so called proof of waivers being favored in some way: You gave me an opinion column, and it was also full of lies and no evidence backed up the points made. For example:

Subtitle is an opinion: If some Americans deserve exemption from a bad law, then all Americans do

President Obama, former House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, Democrats all, in their rush to take over America’s health care system – Deemed one of Politifacts’ “Lie of the Year”s

The law, as currently adjudicated, has been ruled unconstitutional. – convenient to point this out without mentioning that it has been ruled constitutional or thrown out many more times than ruled unconstitutional.

The article goes on to call out the same Democrats by name, with links only to bio pages, and no facts to back any of it up. It was an opinion piece, pure and simple. So I ask again:

WHERE
IS
THE
PROOF?

I mean PROOF, not OPINION that it’s favoritism. Not unsubstantiated claims. We get plenty of that right here.

Jefferson

October 26th, 2011
2:38 pm

If income is not fair, it makes sense that taxes are not fair. Equitable at best is all taxes will ever be, those who can change it, don’t want to.

1811/0311

October 26th, 2011
2:39 pm

“OCCUT*RD” ALERT:

Headline: “EXCLUSIVE: Ex-ACORN Operatives Behind the Scene of ‘Occupy’ Protests”

“Former New York office for ACORN, the disbanded community activist group, is playing a key role in ‘leaderless’ Occupy Wall Street movement, organizing ‘guerrilla’ protest events and hiring canvassers to collect money for various causes while spending it on protest-related activities, sources tell FoxNews.com.”

Butch Cassidy

October 26th, 2011
2:39 pm

md – “Once again, the consumers dictate the outcome……not the other way around.”

Not entirely true. Nardelli was shown the door, specifically BECAUSE the consumers stopped supporting HD and their products. As well as his poor decisions in alienating the everyday customer in favor of the big contractors which lead to a huge drop in HD share prices. So in essence, the consumers and the shareholders made it clear that they were NOT happy with HD. In response, HD cut Nardelli loose with a 200 million dollar severence package. Unfortunately, the consumer and the shareholder really have very little to do with the outcome. If that was true, Nardelli would have left town with NOTHING.

Armed Liberal

October 26th, 2011
2:39 pm

Jim163

October 26th, 2011
2:32 pm

You stated that HD employees became part of the 1% based on stock options.

If you really believe that one time earnings via stock options put a person into the 1% of folks that earn that year over year, you are mistaken.

Lotto winners are in the 1% for a year. They don’t stay there.

Adam

October 26th, 2011
2:39 pm

md: One of my major points regarding your choices argument has been that there are choices made FOR people (and not JUST when they are children) that people have no control over. Thank you for finally admitting that I am right:

choice is there….the choice of the one in charge……

Paul

October 26th, 2011
2:40 pm

Jim163

“returns of capital investments in the forms of dividends ”

Does that constitute income?

Kamchak

October 26th, 2011
2:41 pm

I now have the company that I always wanted and I have put over 200 people to work directly ans[sic] many more to work indirectly, but now I am supposed to feel bad about myself because I have been successful, while others haven’t.

Perhaps you can show us exactly where anyone suggested you are “supposed to feel bad about {yourself} because {you} have been successful, while others haven’t”?

Thanks in advance.

Adam

October 26th, 2011
2:41 pm

md: And who allowed the zero repercussions and the subsequent bonuses??

Well, clearly, the 99% protesters did. Obviously :roll:

Bosch

October 26th, 2011
2:42 pm

GS,

“Then tell us how they got it?”

Your google broke?

Seriously, everyone “got it” differently — which is my point. You can’t just say “those guys/gals just worked harder and made good choices” as the basis of your argument when every situation is different and includes different variables.

md

October 26th, 2011
2:43 pm

“% of economy supported by Consumer Spending: ???”

100%

Paul

October 26th, 2011
2:44 pm

Chuck W

“but now I am supposed to feel bad about myself because I have been successful, while others haven’t. Oh yeah I shouldn’t say successfull I should say “Fortunate” because the only difference between me and the drunk in the gutter is “LUCK”.”

I don’t think anyone is saying that. What I read is a counter to people who say “I did it all on my own. I had exactly the same situation, the same disadvantages and advantages as everyone else. I got no assistance, in the form of subsidized loans, grants, tax breaks or anything.”

I also think what they’re saying is ‘congratulations on what you’ve done. Many people could not or would not do what you did. But now that you’re at that level, it seems odd to us that those in the top 10 percent should pay a lower percentage of their income than someone making an average household income.”

Adam

October 26th, 2011
2:44 pm

Chuck W: <iI now have the company that I always wanted and I have put over 200 people to work directly ans many more to work indirectly

So, Chuck, if we taxed your personal income (not your company’s income, mind you) over 250k at some percentage between 1 and 4% more than it currently is taxed, removing no deductions, would you have to fire people? If your answer is yes. indicate how many you would have to fire and please provide specific reasons as to why.

Go ahead, I’ll wait.

Libertarian

October 26th, 2011
2:44 pm

Sorry Adam, Huffington Post or Daily Kos doesn’t generally write negative articles about Obama so it might be hard to find a “source” you believe. But here’s another:

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/over-half-all-obamacare-waivers-given-union-members_561115.html

The plans newly approved for waivers cover more than 160,000 people, bringing to nearly 3.1 million the number of individuals in plans exempted from the health law’s requirements. Of the participants receiving waivers, more than half – over 1.55 million – are in union plans, raising questions of why such a disproportionate share of union members are receiving waivers from the law’s requirements. The percentage of participants receiving waivers that come from unions also continues to rise – the number was 48% in April, and 45% in March.

OVER HALF have been given to union members. We all know know unions support Dems. Don’t be glib.

md

October 26th, 2011
2:45 pm

“choice is there….the choice of the one in charge……”

“In charge” in relation to legal custody Adam.

Adam

October 26th, 2011
2:45 pm

Scout: sources tell FoxNews.com

And you just gave away the game there.

Bosch

October 26th, 2011
2:46 pm

No Libertarian, it is judging someone when you hold someone to a different standard or accord than you hold yourself or another part of society. It’s judging when you think your mistakes are somehow not as bad as someone elses. It’s judging when you feel a person is somehow less deserving than you.

Generation$crewed

October 26th, 2011
2:46 pm

Adam

October 26th, 2011
2:39 pm

Ignorance is not an excuse for bad choices, nor is ignorance being forced into a decision.

Some are not smart or risky enough to make the correct choice. God knows i have made plenty. However I accepted responsibility, and looked for nobody to bail me out or pay my way.

Do you feel the big banks (investement firms) did not have a choice in the bad decisions they made to harm that harmed the economy so much?

Jim163

October 26th, 2011
2:47 pm

Armed.. I completely agree with your last statement.

Paul, returns of capital investments in the form of dividends are not considered income. That is why it is taxed at a different rate. If you don’t believe me go to IRS.GOV.

Paul

October 26th, 2011
2:47 pm

Jim163

To recap, if you look at Buffet’s income from all sources, divide that by the total federal taxes he pays, and do the same for his secretary,

you will find Buffets pays a substantially lower percentage of his income in federal tax than does his secretary.

Kamchak

October 26th, 2011
2:47 pm

The Weakly Standard?

:roll:

md

October 26th, 2011
2:47 pm

“But now that you’re at that level, it seems odd to us that those in the top 10 percent should pay a lower percentage of their income than someone making an average household income.”

And that is where the misleading comes into play…..for the rate on income tax is already progressive, and the rate on cap gains is the same for both………

That is where the warfare comes in……..intentional misleading by the powers that be……

Libertarian

October 26th, 2011
2:48 pm

Geez Bosch that sounded very much like a lecture. Thanks Daddy. I, for one, have not said one thing about “the poor” or “others” or “people’s mistakes.” So, direct your lecture to someone else there Bud.

philosopher

October 26th, 2011
2:49 pm

I couldn’t tell what was labeled the dumbest comment; but this one gets my vote: “Everyone is where they are in life due to choices they have made at one point or another.”
Did you even THINK about the fact that babies make no choices before they are conceived?? People like you make me hope that we have to come back in another life and that you are born slap dab in the middle of a homeless shelter while maintaining a memory of your present comfy childhood and the arrogant, spoiled, entitled attitude that you have in this life.

1811/0311

October 26th, 2011
2:49 pm

New York Post:

“Ex-ACORN operatives playing role in ‘Occupy Wall Street’ movement”

Gather News:

“Who Is Behind Occupy Wall Street?”

Paul

October 26th, 2011
2:49 pm

Jim163

Are you now making the case Buffet thinks he makes only $100,000 a year in income?

If you ask him “hey Warren, what’ja’ make last year” he’s gonna say “a hundred grand!”?

Really?

Adam

October 26th, 2011
2:50 pm

md: “In charge” in relation to legal custody Adam.

You say that like it changes something. That still shows the person in question is not making the choices, they are being made FOR them.

Jefferson

October 26th, 2011
2:50 pm

The deficit will never go away until taxes are increase, fact of life.

Chuck W

October 26th, 2011
2:51 pm

Kamchak

How about every time that I turn on the television or radio I hear a Democrat state that I do not pay my fair share of taxes. While 49% of the tax payers in the country pay 0% of the federal taxes they want to push my taxes to about 39% or 40%. I have a privately held company, no corporation, so every penny extra they take in taxes is money that I can’t invest in new equipment, new employees, research and delevopment. There are alot of smaller businesses in the same boat.

Generation$crewed

October 26th, 2011
2:51 pm

Bosch

October 26th, 2011
2:42 pm

Backpeddling!

You never arguemed that some of those who are ubber wealthy got it through hard work.

You have repeated the line of question you asked earlier, implying that working harder is not how they got their money.

Go look at your post….

“The 1% of the people who own the wealth in this country did not get it simply because they worked harder than anyone else.”

You say did not get it simply because they ……

When some did and you do not account for those who did earn it that way.

Thus you are making a sweeping judgement that none of them did it by simply outworking others.

Now spin, spin and tell us how you didn’t make that assertion

md

October 26th, 2011
2:52 pm

“People like you make me hope that we have to come back in another life and that you are born slap dab in the middle of a homeless shelter while maintaining a memory of your present comfy childhood and the arrogant, spoiled, entitled attitude that you have in this life.”

If I may chime in……are you saying folks born into this type arrangement are destined to be there forever?? That no matter what they do they can’t better themselves??

Or possibly that they may have a harder road but it will depend on their “choices” as to where they end up?

ty webb

October 26th, 2011
2:53 pm

Philosopher,
I stand by my statement. Have a great day!

Adam

October 26th, 2011
2:53 pm

Libertarian: I don’t know if you’re actually vetting these things before you post them, because you gave me ANOTHER opinion piece, with no supporting evidence to back it up. The ONE LINK provided is of a story that is only related because it is written by the author and is about unions. The guy doesn’t even link to the report he quotes in his two paragraph “PROOF” of waivers being favoritism.

I want some actual evidence, not more blog posts. I dont’ need to see it from DailyKos or anywhere else you might think is a liberal media hack, but I do need to see some actual data, evidence, etc. Perhaps you can find out if Congressman Issa has launched an investigation into the subject, since that’s what you usually do if you suspect something, even if there’s no substance. But it would be a start towards showing there might be some actual PROOF one way or the other.

md

October 26th, 2011
2:54 pm

“That still shows the person in question is not making the choices, they are being made FOR them.”

It shows choices are being made by the legal entity Adam…..unless you think kids should have the right to do as they please??

Butch Cassidy

October 26th, 2011
2:54 pm

Chuck W – “There are alot of smaller businesses in the same boat.”

Just do what my buddy Jeff does. He owns a logistics and transportation company near Warner Robbins. He pays himself $7.25 per hour, so he falls well below the $250k threshold for the tax increase. However, he does have all expenses paid for through the company so even on $7.25, he can still afford the Ferrari. Not sure if he uses the EITC, I’ll have to check.

Kamchak

October 26th, 2011
2:55 pm

How about every time that I turn on the television or radio I hear a Democrat state that I do not pay my fair share of taxes.

Sounds like you chose to turn on the television or radio. How about you taking personal responsibility for that?

While 49% of the tax payers in the country pay 0% of the federal taxes…

This crap again?

Many of those 49%ers pay all sorts of federal excise taxes, sport.

Armed Liberal

October 26th, 2011
2:55 pm

Jim163

October 26th, 2011
2:47 pm

I figured I was gonna get waxed and you come back with this?

Man oh man, I was right the first time. You are a dolt.

Adam

October 26th, 2011
2:55 pm

Chuck W: Still waiting on specific reasons why you would have to fire someone from your COMPANY if your PERSONAL income taxes went up on only your income after 250k, OR an answer that you would not have to fire anyone.

Thanks in advance.

Bosch

October 26th, 2011
2:55 pm

No, I’m not backpeddling. I am of the opinion that not one single person who is in the top 1% of the income bracket in this country got to where they are due to the fact that they simply outworked other people.

No one gets to where they are based simply upon the amount of work they do. There are many other variables in play, and to over look those is ignorant.

And if you want to base your argument on simple word games, then go for it. It doesn’t change the fact.

md

October 26th, 2011
2:56 pm

Enough time wasted in the time suck……..outta here.

Paul

October 26th, 2011
2:56 pm

Jim163

Let’s back up.

You began with “The 1% does not refer to wealth, it refers to income.

Glad to see that Buffett doesn’t belong to that group because he only accepts an income of $100k. You guys should also quit talking about how he pays less in taxes then his secretary because that is taxes on his wealth not income.”

However, Buffet never made the case you say he did. He did not speak of ‘income.’ Where did you get the idea he did? Some third party radio personality? Here’s what he said:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cu5B-2LoC4s#t=01m15s

Jim163

October 26th, 2011
2:57 pm

Paul,

I agree with you, that was the reason for the example. Low paid Home Depot employees who exercised options for over a million joined the 1%, albeit for the year exercised. I was told in this blog that was wealth and not income? That is the same exercise of capital that Buffet exercises, but many on this blog don’t consider that wealth, they consider it income for him. Can’t have it both ways.

Adam

October 26th, 2011
2:58 pm

md: You and I are saying the exact same thing, EXCEPT that you still think that choices determine absolutely everything that happens to a person, whether made by them or for them. There are other uncontrolled influences as well.

BUT, my central initial point at this time is that a person does not make all of the choices that lead to their current and future circumstances. And from what I can tell, you agree.

Libertarian

October 26th, 2011
2:58 pm

Adam

I think what I’ve posted is sufficient. You’re acting like a child. As you guys love to say “is your google broke?”

Aquagirl

October 26th, 2011
2:58 pm

I, for one, have not said one thing about “the poor” or “others” or “people’s mistakes.”

….sez the guy calling hisself “Libertarian.” ‘Fess up, you think you’re an island unto yourself.

And remember, when you go squishy on your me-first economics and lie, Ayn Rand rolls over in her 100% privately owned grave.

Misty Fyed

October 26th, 2011
3:00 pm

So…. Let’s say for the sake of argument that the people in the top 1% inherited their entire fortune. How does that change a thing or give you any more right to it?

Paul

October 26th, 2011
3:00 pm

Chuck W

“How about every time that I turn on the television or radio I hear a Democrat state that I do not pay my fair share of taxes. While 49% of the tax payers in the country pay 0% of the federal taxes they want to push my taxes to about 39% or 40%.”

Ummm…. Gov Rick Perry is not a Democrat… he’s a Republican…. and his plan will increase the number of households that ‘pay 0%.’

:-)

Adam

October 26th, 2011
3:00 pm

Libertarian: Google isn’t broke, it’s just not finding any evidence. And from you posting only opinion pieces I assume you are having the same trouble finding actual evidence as I am.

Welcome to the occupation (Trotsky)

October 26th, 2011
3:00 pm

And in a strange kind of way, Occupy Wall Street made me think more fondly of the Tea Party as well.” – Andrew Sullivan

http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2011/10/23/how-i-learned-to-love-the-goddamned-hippies.html

Libertarian

October 26th, 2011
3:01 pm

Bosch,

If that’s your opinion, that’s fine. You can have opinions. But don’t lecture others for their opinions. If someone want to believe that poor people are poor because they are lazy…that’s their opinion.

stands for decibels

October 26th, 2011
3:01 pm

Libertarian

October 26th, 2011
3:02 pm

Aquagirl

October 26th, 2011
2:58 pm

Assume what you want about me. Even though you know nothing about me.

stands for decibels

October 26th, 2011
3:02 pm

(Meant to put just the word “Democrats” in snarky bunny ear quotes @ 3.01, but whatever.)

Adam

October 26th, 2011
3:02 pm

Misty Fyed: How does that change a thing or give you any more right to it?

First of all, if true, that blows away the whole concept that people who are at the top simply worked hard to get there. As for the second part of your question, why do you guys keep assuming that taxing people more means other people (liberals, apparently) PERSONALLY get that money? That’s not at all what is being suggested nor is it reality if implemented.

Bosch

October 26th, 2011
3:03 pm

“If someone want to believe that poor people are poor because they are lazy…that’s their opinion.”

Of course Libertarian, people can also be of the opinion that unicorns crap Skittles and that little green men are the reason for sun spots. And yes, some people are poor because they are lazy, but that is not the primary reason. Simply wishing poor away will not make it happen.

Paulo977

October 26th, 2011
3:04 pm

philosopher
:P eople like you make me hope that we have to come back in another life and that you are born slap dab in the middle of a homeless shelter

Well said… Karma is powerful!

Paul

October 26th, 2011
3:05 pm

Jim163

“I was told in this blog that was wealth and not income? ”

You’ll find words are used in very creative ways on this blog. That’s why it’s so important to define terms early on… after having some fun, that is. Seems to be the nature of Blogland and it’s easy to get sucked into it.

I think most here would refer to income as $$ that come in to a person over the course of a year, while wealth is the value of the estate.

As far as all the cap gains treatments, that was Buffet’s point just before the start in midstream – that thru such devices, tax advantages have been skewed towards the wealthy. We’ve created legal distinctions in how we treat income from various sources and we tax it at different rates. I think that was his point.

getalife

October 26th, 2011
3:05 pm

The super corrupt congress are not even trying to recover the 15 million jobs the lost .

No jobs no cuts.

Lets cut the corrupt career pols.

Bosch

October 26th, 2011
3:07 pm

And Bookman, can you PLEASE call the IT department or whomever is in charge of putting pictures on the front page of the ajc.com and get that hideous monstrocity of a woman, Paula Deen, off the page?

Kthx.

Kamchak

October 26th, 2011
3:08 pm

Paul

October 26th, 2011
3:08 pm

sfd 3:01

Sorry, buddy, you’ve been spoofed by a fake website. Democrats don’t want to cut $3 trillion in spending. They want to increase taxes on the job creators by $3 trillion.

Don’t feel badly, could happen to anyone…

Welcome to the occupation (Trotsky)

October 26th, 2011
3:08 pm

Libertarian: “But don’t lecture others for their opinions. If someone want to believe that poor people are poor because they are lazy…that’s their opinion.”

I vehemently reject this view. If you’re holding such views in the silence of your own privacy, that’s one thing. But when you’re voicing that erroneous and misguided view, then you’re giving aid and comfort to the enemies of the people.

Armed Liberal

October 26th, 2011
3:08 pm

A much more elegant phrasing of my initial point:

“You built a factory out there? Good for you. But I want to be clear. You moved your goods to market on the roads the rest of us paid for. You hired workers the rest of us paid to educate. You were safe in your factory because of police-forces and fire-forces that the rest of us paid for. You didn’t have to worry that marauding bands would come and seize everything at your factory — and hire someone to protect against this — because of the work the rest of us did.
Now look, you built a factory and it turned into something terrific, or a great idea. God bless — keep a big hunk of it. But part of the underlying social contract is, you take a hunk of that and pay forward for the next kid who comes along.”

Elizabeth Warren is my new hero.

Aquagirl

October 26th, 2011
3:08 pm

Even though you know nothing about me.

I do know you didn’t pick asdfghjki as your handle. There’s a reason for that, unless by startling coincidence your fingers typed out random letters that spell “libertarian.”

And yes, I do breath water.

Chuck W

October 26th, 2011
3:09 pm

Adam
Never said anyone would have to be fired, but there is less money for new invest and maybe more people being hired, which is our government is pretending to care about right now.

Paul
Believe me, I don’t think the republicans are any better than the democrats, I just haven’t heard the republicans talk about raising my taxes, and I thought this is what this discussion is about. I have not believed in the the republican party since they let the bible thumpers take over. I am a libertarian, I believe it is the federal governments job to protect the laws, protect the borders, and protect the people from outside invaders. Everything else they should stay away from because they are awful at it.

JohnnyReb

October 26th, 2011
3:09 pm

Bosch – I just can’t believe ya’ll don’t like Paula!

getalife

October 26th, 2011
3:10 pm

The CBO reports that all gop tax proposals benefits the 1 %.

Lets cut all 1 % welfare.

Enough with the 1 % welfare.

Armed Liberal

October 26th, 2011
3:10 pm

Paul and Jim163 – you’re using my poorly designed argument. I was wrong and concede the point.

Bosch

October 26th, 2011
3:11 pm

“Elizabeth Warren is my new hero”

Mine too, and I suspect a few million other people as well. She will be our POTUS in 2016, you heard it here first.

Welcome to the occupation (Trotsky)

October 26th, 2011
3:11 pm

getalife: “No jobs no cuts.”

This is brilliant. And should be tattooed on the flesh of every occupant of a congressional seat who advances a policy that further immeserates the middle classes and workers of this country. That’s to better ensure that they do not forget the truth.

Bosch

October 26th, 2011
3:12 pm

Reb,

She makes me nauseous, and for those keeping score, YES, I AM judging her, she makes me want to rip the hair from my head and throw myself off a bridge just at the sound of her voice!

JohnnyReb

October 26th, 2011
3:13 pm

BTW Bosch – I agree with you on the poverty thing. It takes more than not being lazy. There has to be mentoring and opportunity. It’s just the government social engineering opportunity to which I object.

Bosch

October 26th, 2011
3:13 pm

Reb,

Seriously, the reason I hate her so, is that she is fake and gives the good respectable Southern women I know a bad name.

JohnnyReb

October 26th, 2011
3:15 pm

OMG, Bosch – Elizabeth Warren is an educated idiot.

getalife

October 26th, 2011
3:16 pm

Thank you Welcome to the occupation (Trotsky).

Sadly, the dems are cutting medicare in their plan.

They are not listening to our Seniors and the AARP.

Bosch

October 26th, 2011
3:16 pm

Reb,

“It’s just the government social engineering opportunity to which I object”

You know, I know this may shock you, but to some degree I agree with you. I actually DO love capitalism, really, I do, and I feel that government intervention in our income is partially to blame for poverty. If we were to just take it away, and let the free market reign supreme, and rely solely on what we earned, then I feel our country and our economy would look very, very different than it does now.

getalife

October 26th, 2011
3:17 pm

reb,

Why is she a “idiot” con?

Libertarian

October 26th, 2011
3:17 pm

“I vehemently reject this view. If you’re holding such views in the silence of your own privacy, that’s one thing.”

I guess you are entitled to reject the 1st amendment if you want to.

Bosch

October 26th, 2011
3:17 pm

Hey Reb! That’s NO way to talk about my new hero.

JohnnyReb

October 26th, 2011
3:17 pm

Bosch, I don’t dislike Paula to your extent, but she does lay it on too thick for me.

Libertarian

October 26th, 2011
3:17 pm

Bosch

October 26th, 2011
3:03 pm

Agreed.

Aquagirl

October 26th, 2011
3:18 pm

She makes me nauseous, and for those keeping score, YES, I AM judging her,

Time for a little humor break….

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btq3u7oi7K8

*No Paula Deens were really harmed in the making of this video.

1811/0311

October 26th, 2011
3:18 pm

HEY MICK !

Only one for the Coast Guard ………… what’s up with that ?

Headline: “FBI reports gang ‘infiltration’ of U.S. military”

http://campaign2012.washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/beltway-confidential/fbi-reports-gang-infiltration-us-military

JohnnyReb

October 26th, 2011
3:19 pm

getalife – for me, all I had to do was hear her “no body got rich on their own” rant to know she does not know her butt from a hole in the ground. You may see redeeming qualities, but I don’t.

philosopher

October 26th, 2011
3:19 pm

Oh, no- I was simply responding to the amazing arrogance of a person who asserts that it’s ALL about t making the ‘right choices”. Choices made with a roof over his head, food in his belly, and an education all but dropped into his lap are a whole different ballgame from the choices made by a child who grows up having to fight for food and survival on a daily basis. Of course many do succeed, but that is not the norm…most end up in a vicious cycle where few “good” choices are available. And there are many, many other examples of fate affecting choices or limiting choices. Yes, I believe that all things being equal, we could blame lack of success on the choices we make in life…but all things are NOT equal.

Libertarian

October 26th, 2011
3:19 pm

JohnnyReb

October 26th, 2011
3:15 pm

Agreed. If she’s ever our president….yikes.

md

October 26th, 2011
3:19 pm

““You built a factory out there? Good for you. But I want to be clear. You moved your goods to market on the roads the rest of us paid for. You hired workers the rest of us paid to educate. You were safe in your factory because of police-forces and fire-forces that the rest of us paid for. You didn’t have to worry that marauding bands would come and seize everything at your factory — and hire someone to protect against this — because of the work the rest of us did.”

I couldn’t let that bs go without a comment………just what the heck does “the rest of us paid for” mean?

More class warfare rhetoric implying the guy building the factory isn’t among the “us”………

News flash….he is, and in doing so, we all have the same right to go out and use those roads as we see fit………..without folks like Ms warren trying to lay on some kind of bs guilt trip………

She and “the rest of us” are free to go build our own factories and use those roads “WE ALL” built.

ty webb

October 26th, 2011
3:20 pm

Bosch,
regarding Paula Deen, I can’t stand her act either, but Rachel Ray annoys me just a slightly bit more.

Paul

October 26th, 2011
3:20 pm

Chuck W

I agree with you on the direction the Republican Party has taken.

As you spend time here, you’ll see a lot of arguing over generalities and a real reluctance by some to address specifics. For instance – the tax rates. Specific proposals have been to raise the top marginal rate for those whose adjusted gross income (after deductions) is $379,150 a year from 35 to 39 percent, where it was under Clinton. There have also been proposals for a 5% surtax for those whose income exceeds a million annually.

There’s an awful lot of talk here that ‘Democrats want all my money’ or about ‘tax increases’ as if they apply to all income levels. They havent.

But now it’s Republicans advocating tax increases (for the lower and middle) and cuts for the wealthy because we have Cain’s and Perry’s plans thrown in.

Anyhow, stick around. It’s a fun asylum.

Bosch

October 26th, 2011
3:20 pm

OMG, Aquagirl, I know that my karma will get all out of whack for this, but I laughed so hard when she got hit in the face with that ham….

Poetic justice.

getalife

October 26th, 2011
3:21 pm

scout,

Well, at least they are not fighting the drug war on the streets.

They are probably great soldiers since they have been practicing on the streets.

Bosch

October 26th, 2011
3:21 pm

ty,

I would probably choke Rachel Ray if we had to spend five minutes in the same room.

Damn! What is wrong with me?? All this animosity towards TV cooks, maybe I’m just jealous and want to be them. :)

Paul

October 26th, 2011
3:22 pm

Armed Liberal

We are? Okay. Thanks.

Bosch

October 26th, 2011
3:23 pm

“no body got rich on their own”

Um, Reb, that’s because no one does. Just sayin.

Kamchak

October 26th, 2011
3:24 pm

….he is, and in doing so, we all have the same right to go out and use those roads as we see fit…

Of……………..course…………..he……………is………………….he………………….just…………….can’t………………………………play………………………..the…………………..”I……………………….pulled………………….myself…………………………..up…………………….by…………my…………………………own……………….bootstraps…………………………..with…………………..no……………………….help……..from………….anybody”…………………….card.

kayaker 71

October 26th, 2011
3:24 pm

Elizabeth Warren a hero?????? What an absurd observation. She is worse than Kennedy but without the philandering. Pay for roads in another tax after you have already paid in gasoline taxes both federal and state? “The underlying social contract?” I don’t recall signing one. And she also implies that those evil factory owners don’t pay for police and fire protection like the average citizen. Most of the average businesses that are large enough pay for their own security and do not depend on the police dept as the prime protector. Again, she is implying that these business owners do not pay taxes like the rest of us. What a croc. Hero, Bosch? This broad makes you that Armed Liberal friend of yours look pretty stupid.

Paul

October 26th, 2011
3:25 pm

Bosch

If the southern women are respectable

how can they be good?

ty webb

October 26th, 2011
3:26 pm

Giada”s not bad…though I hardly ever pay any attention to the food she cooks.

Adam

October 26th, 2011
3:26 pm

JohnnyReb: getalife – for me, all I had to do was hear her “no body got rich on their own” rant to know she does not know her butt from a hole in the ground.

Wow, so every man is an island, eh? I strongly suggest you pull yourself up by your bootstraps and go start your own island libertarian utopia. Good luck with the pirates.

Armed Liberal

October 26th, 2011
3:26 pm

Paul

October 26th, 2011
3:22 pm

Yep. Got all twisted up and worked myself into a corner and then flailed aimlessly…

md

October 26th, 2011
3:27 pm

Good job Kam……..nice………….. rebuttal……of……..no……substance.

Bosch

October 26th, 2011
3:27 pm

““The underlying social contract?””

You don’t sign it, it just magically happens when you are born into this country, or become a citizen.

getalife

October 26th, 2011
3:27 pm

Well, if kay hates her she must be great.

stands for decibels

October 26th, 2011
3:28 pm

all I had to do was hear her “no body got rich on their own” rant to know she does not know her butt from a hole in the ground.

What part of that viral video do you find factually inaccurate?

Aquagirl

October 26th, 2011
3:28 pm

I know that my karma will get all out of whack for this

According to the Youtube hits, at least 161,553 other souls will be joining you in rebirth to a lower life form. So you’ll have plenty of company in the rock pile or anthill or whatever.

Adam

October 26th, 2011
3:28 pm

kayaker: Most of the average businesses that are large enough pay for their own security and do not depend on the police dept as the prime protector.

Wrong. Well, they may be able to afford it, but they certainly don’t rely on it to the exclusion of existing WELL TRAINED local police.

getalife

October 26th, 2011
3:28 pm

md,

You are addicted and just can’t leave this blog.

This is a intervention.

Libertarian

October 26th, 2011
3:28 pm

I watch a lot of food network and they are all kinda starting to annoy me. Paula’s accent is so fake (an as a life-long southerner, I think I can say that). Also, why the F is chopped on every single night? Get some new dang shows!

Ok, food network rant over.

Kamchak

October 26th, 2011
3:29 pm

Good job Kam……..nice………….. rebuttal……of……..no……substance.

Nothing ………………. of …………………..substance …………..to ……………rebut.

Thulsa Doom

October 26th, 2011
3:29 pm

2 ?s. Were the occupy atl protesters able to levitate the ga pacific tower? And were they able to get the koch brothers to “copulate” to their demands? Or did they only succeed in getting arrested en masse? Doomy on the drive by!

Bosch

October 26th, 2011
3:29 pm

Good point Paul, but I do still hate her.

ty,

:)

Adam

October 26th, 2011
3:30 pm

stands: What part of that viral video do you find factually inaccurate?

Cue the “She said ‘the rest of us pay for’ when she should have said ‘all of us pay for’” poutrage.

Because really, all you have is semantics as an argument with any truth in it when it comes to this.

md

October 26th, 2011
3:31 pm

“You are addicted and just can’t leave this blog.”

And some days, that is a very accurate statement.

But, judging by the picture of the fish blog, I am not alone in my addiction………….

getalife

October 26th, 2011
3:32 pm

reb is a “idiot”.

Paul

October 26th, 2011
3:32 pm

Bosch

“Damn! What is wrong with me?? All this animosity towards TV cooks”

Really?

http://tinyurl.com/3mjacqj

Bosch

October 26th, 2011
3:33 pm

Libertarian,

Chopped makes me sick — I used to like it, but then the judges got all crazy and they act all shocked that someone didn’t know how to use lamb testicles, grasshoppers, fruit loops, and Indonesian sour beans as an appetizer.

I saw this one guy judge(can’t remember who his name) have a complete little girl hissy fit melt down because he said he didn’t like purple onions and then the next round someone put purple onions in the dish — he went ballistic.

OMG.

Thulsa Doom

October 26th, 2011
3:33 pm

Is obama still doing more damage than a marauding band of telephone thieves?

md

October 26th, 2011
3:33 pm

“Because really, all you have is semantics as an argument with any truth in it when it comes to this.”

Hardly……I’m guessing that if some guy had the money to build a factory, he more than likely paid more than the rest of us for those roads……………….unless we don’t have a progressive tax structure.

Bosch

October 26th, 2011
3:34 pm

Paul,

:lol:

I didn’t say ALL of them!

ty webb

October 26th, 2011
3:35 pm

when it comes to TV cooks…the conversation begins and ends with the Master…Justin Wilson…oooohweee!

md

October 26th, 2011
3:36 pm

And Adam……are we now going to dictate how everyone uses the common areas of society?

That should get interesting…………..Ms Warren may not want to open that can of worms……..

Thulsa Doom

October 26th, 2011
3:36 pm

Excuse me that would be telephone pole thieves, a fearsome bunch even more destructive to infrastructure than obama himself

TaxPayer

October 26th, 2011
3:37 pm

Anyway, the Republicans made really bad choices by taking us to war without funding them, by giving out tax cuts without corresponding cuts in fed expenditures, by handing out prescription drug company benefits without funding them, by borrowing money to pay for everything, etc., and they want everyone else to pay the price for their mistakes yet all they seem to be capable of doing themselves is whine about a subset of this country’s poor, elderly, young, disabled, and/or jobless and their choices in life. Sounds like a lame attempt at deflection and/or diversion. Anything to avoid detection. :roll:

stands for decibels

October 26th, 2011
3:37 pm

I saw this one guy judge(can’t remember who his name) have a complete little girl hissy fit melt down because he said he didn’t like purple onions and then the next round someone put purple onions in the dish — he went ballistic.

yeah, too lazy to look it up, but he’s their designated prick. Chopped is not that dissimilar from other reality tv shows I’ve seen over the years–there are good guys, bad guys, human drama… that’s why you tune in.

(and sure, I hate that guy too. Of course you know that in real life he’s probably perfectly sweet, that the producers just play this stuff up and edit him to seem extra-pricky…)

Kamchak

October 26th, 2011
3:38 pm

If you guys are more interested in the results of cooking shows rather than the silly faux drama, I suggest American’s Test Kitchen, Cooks Country, Cooking With Lydia, Primal Grill, Barbeque University, Mexico One Plate At A Time or any of the fine culinary programming on PBS.

Adam

October 26th, 2011
3:38 pm

md: So what? We ALL paid for it, and he didn’t do it all on his own, or even mostly on his own (there are plenty of other people just as wealthy too).

And as a followup to your argument, THEREFORE, he should be taxed less because he’s already paid for the roads and stuff. He’s done now, no more taxes on him…. Reward success!

(This is a good time to mention I do not want to reward corporate stinginess by giving them a tax cut).

kayaker 71

October 26th, 2011
3:38 pm

Bosch,

You do what? Something magically happens when you are born into this country and become a citizen? I am not sure that I read anyplace in the Constitution that we have a social contract with anyone. Social contract…… let’s see….. must be some sort of liberal scam that allows you to fleece those that have and give it away to those that don’t. Sort of like the newest scam that Bozo is proposing, bypassing Congress, to ease up on student loans. As long as someone is making a “reasonable attempt” to pay off their loans, that takes them off the hook. And the loan payment cannot be more than 10% of their annual income. The real kicker is that if they are paying a “reasonable amount”, some pay 500 dollars/yr, the loans will be forgiven in 20yrs. Meanwhile universities like Harvard, the liberal university of the world, in June of 2009, had an endowment of over 25B dollars and still charge their students 40K+/yr in tuition and fees. Social contract?…… seems like Bozo is overlooking something. And I might add, my friend, so are you.

getalife

October 26th, 2011
3:39 pm

doomy enters with mindless babble as usual.

LSU is going to stomp a mud hole in bama’s candy azzes.

Bosch

October 26th, 2011
3:40 pm

Kamchak,

I miss those Two Fat Ladies… They were fun.

And stands,

No, I refuse to believe that guy is nice in real life — it messes with my whole universe to do so.

Adam

October 26th, 2011
3:40 pm

md: are we now going to dictate how everyone uses the common areas of society?

We already do that. Recently, we do that through police forcibly removing people from parks because of curfew. After all, despite being peaceful, they are breaking the law and deserve to have their thumbs broken and tents and medical equipment destroyed. Right?

Are we going to dictate how people use common areas of society? Apparently, yes. Through force if necessary.

Paul

October 26th, 2011
3:40 pm

Bosch

“I didn’t say ALL of them!”

I figured you’d like both of them -

It is so seriously time for a new thread…

stands for decibels

October 26th, 2011
3:40 pm

American’s Test Kitchen

Two thumbs (and a couple of big toes) up on that one. Real good show.

Adam

October 26th, 2011
3:42 pm

kayaker: must be some sort of liberal scam that allows you to fleece those that have and give it away to those that don’t

Better than the conservative scam of fleecing those that have very little in order to give it to the people who already have a lot.

Bosch

October 26th, 2011
3:42 pm

Paul!

You are BAD!!

Paul

October 26th, 2011
3:43 pm

getalife

“LSU is going to stomp a mud hole in bama’s candy azzes.”

Where are Brosephus and DebbieDoRight when we need them?

Keep Up the Good Fight!

October 26th, 2011
3:44 pm

md

October 26th, 2011
3:44 pm

“md: So what? We ALL paid for it, and he didn’t do it all on his own, or even mostly on his own (there are plenty of other people just as wealthy too).

And as a followup to your argument, THEREFORE, he should be taxed less because he’s already paid for the roads and stuff. He’s done now, no more taxes on him…. Reward success!”

Yes, we did “all” pay for it (not really, but for arguments sake)…….so we have equal right to use it…..or are we going to send out the “use” police to make sure everyone is using it the same?

As for your follow up……you can keep your assumptions to what you think my argument may be, because that stuff is in your head, not mine. I don’t recall mentioning anything about taxing anybody less……….

stands for decibels

October 26th, 2011
3:45 pm

I refuse to believe that guy is nice in real life — it messes with my whole universe to do so.

Hey, if it adds to the enjoyment, that’s fine. I’m just saying that if you and a few friends hung around and were directed to comment on any number of things for, say, two hours and it all had to be edited down to fit into 22 minutes of airtime? It wouldn’t be too hard to make one person seem like a complete jerk and another person seem like a loving, empathetic, kind-hearted sort.

And if the continued success of the show depended upon the designated jerk to say a couple of jerky things each week? you’d probably be willing to take on that role.

Adam

October 26th, 2011
3:45 pm

kayaker: Sounds like you’d prefer that people pay their ENTIRE student loan back, even if they never make enough money to do so, PLUS interest, and if they die before they get a chance we should track down whatever body they reincarnate into and make sure they pay the rest of the debt. Or maybe we should force their descendents to do it. Or something.

Paul

October 26th, 2011
3:46 pm

Kamchak – sfd

except it really bugs me that on the Cook’s Illustrated webpage they’ve taken to designating some of their recipes as ’super duper good’ and you have to pay for an extra subscription to see them.

Dang New England capitalists….

getalife

October 26th, 2011
3:46 pm

“Where are Brosephus and DebbieDoRight when we need them?”

They watched LSU destroy Auburn and decided they wanted none of LSU.

Geaux Tigers!

National Champs again.

Paul

October 26th, 2011
3:46 pm

Bosch

But she’s good, and that’s all that counts.

Kamchak

October 26th, 2011
3:46 pm

Keep

Never heard of them.

They on PBS?

OingoBoingo

October 26th, 2011
3:46 pm

Jeez, it’s not like either party has done anything towards fixing/scrapping the tax code lately..now all of the sudden it’s a hot button issue.

Both sides are full of buffoons who have forgotten the middle class. Keep voting for your favorite party.

Way to propogate the partisanship Jay. I wouldn’t expect any less of you.

The media needs to start doing their job and reporting on the news rather than being spoonfed by their favorite political party. You guys have a role in this country and most of you are so partisan it’s ridiculous. Faux News, CNN, HuffPo, WaPo…you all stink.

ty webb

October 26th, 2011
3:47 pm

Keep Up the Good Fight!

October 26th, 2011
3:47 pm

Ummm…md, you do realize that there are “use” police for the roads and that the damage done by trucks is greater than passenger vehicles. There are weight limits, load limits, axle requirements… Do you have any idea what you are typing or you just typing to hear clicks on your keyboard? Oh wait, I remember, the details don’t matter as you gloss over item by item the real issues and the nuances….

Butch Cassidy

October 26th, 2011
3:49 pm

You forget Adam, it’s all about CHOICES! Hey, you want to be part of the 1% you need to get an education and work hard. What? You had to borrow to get that education, and then you couldn’t find a job? YOU SHOULD HAVE MADE BETTER CHOICES!!!!!!! You majored in Science, but your first job out only pays 60k and you owe $120K? YOU SHOULD HAVE MADE BETTER CHOICES!!!!!!

md

October 26th, 2011
3:49 pm

“We already do that. Recently, we do that through police forcibly removing people from parks because of curfew. After all, despite being peaceful, they are breaking the law and deserve to have their thumbs broken and tents and medical equipment destroyed. Right?”

Now you are confusing “right to use” vs “laws”……..two different concepts…..

And from what I can tell, those folks had the choice to leave as requested…….and chose not to.

One does not have the right to break the law to exercise a right……..otherwise, we may just want to go with anarchy as the governing rule……..

Keep Up the Good Fight!

October 26th, 2011
3:49 pm

A&E I think. or Discovery. At least the American version. I think I gave you the link for the English Version.

Keep Up the Good Fight!

October 26th, 2011
3:50 pm

Actually in some cases you do have to actually break the law to have standing in court to challenge the legality of the law in the first place….. but again, that does not fit onto the md bumper sticker easily.

Adam

October 26th, 2011
3:50 pm

md: Really though, taxes are designed specifically to evenly spread the money gathered fromt axes towards projects for the public good, WHETHER OR NOT the person or people who paid into the system actually “use” it or “use it the right way.” Doesn’t matter. And I am fine with that. What I am not fine with is making the assumption that someone should NOT pay for roads because they don’t use them, or that they should NOT pay for food stamps and other things with pennies of their tax dollars because they don’t use them, or that they shouldn’t pay anything into the military because they don’t like the military, and on and on and on. Taxes are not voluntary, and that is why any tax plan that places more of the burden on those that can least afford it is something I am against. If it places more of the burden on those who can MOST afford it, it’s a much better plan. Now, get the lobbying and such out of politics and our representatives might finally look out for us instead of the 1%

Libertarian

October 26th, 2011
3:51 pm

Bosch

October 26th, 2011
3:33 pm

I saw that same episode. Was it the guy with the short white/grey hair? I mean, I dont’ love onions either but I usually just pick them off and move on.

Kamchak

October 26th, 2011
3:51 pm

except it really bugs me that on the Cook’s Illustrated webpage they’ve taken to designating some of their recipes as ’super duper good’ and you have to pay for an extra subscription to see them.

Yeah, that chaps my ass too. Even thought of dropping my online subscription to Cook’s Illustrated and Cook’s Country.

But in the end there is just so much that they get right but one thing, cornbread does not have flour nor sugar in it!

md

October 26th, 2011
3:53 pm

“Sounds like you’d prefer that people pay their ENTIRE student loan back, even if they never make enough money to do so”

Hmmm……sounds like a sure bet for disaster……..didn’t we just watch that movie?

Or do folks like the idea of sequels so much we need to see part 2, 3, 4, etc……

Actually, part 2 is playing out in the EU as we speak if folks like foreign films…….

Adam

October 26th, 2011
3:53 pm

md: One does not have the right to break the law to exercise a right

Depends on the law and the right in question. There are no absolutes here. if there were, we would have already figured out all laws that we can have that don’t affect anyone negatively ever.

Keep Up the Good Fight!

October 26th, 2011
3:54 pm

Kam…correction. Hairy Bikers (American version) is History channel. http://www.history.com/shows/hairy-bikers

Adam

October 26th, 2011
3:54 pm

md: Hmmm……sounds like a sure bet for disaster……..didn’t we just watch that movie?

You lost me.

Bosch

October 26th, 2011
3:54 pm

Libertarian,

It’s this guy:

http://www.foodnetwork.com/scott-conant/index.html

And yes, I am just that bored enough to bother to look him up.

stands,

True enough. ;) And Paul, the same could be said of your last comment to me as well.

Paul

October 26th, 2011
3:55 pm

ty

that’s the youngest I’ve ever seen Jus-teen Wilson

Paul

October 26th, 2011
3:56 pm

Kam

“But in the end there is just so much that they get right but one thing, cornbread does not have flour nor sugar in it!”

What do you expect from a bunch of New England Yankees?

Libertarian

October 26th, 2011
3:56 pm

Bosch,

Ah yes….that guy always comes across as the jacka$$ of the show.

md

October 26th, 2011
3:58 pm

“Ummm…md, you do realize that there are “use” police for the roads and that the damage done by trucks is greater than passenger vehicles. There are weight limits, load limits, axle requirements… Do you have any idea what you are typing or you just typing to hear clicks on your keyboard? Oh wait, I remember, the details don’t matter as you gloss over item by item the real issues and the nuances….”

Well aware of said restrictions…..you may want to also be aware that “use” has several definitions/applications………

getalife

October 26th, 2011
3:59 pm

Most Cajuns think they are better cooks than Wilson.

They love to argue on who is the best cook.

Like on this blog, nobody concedes and they all keep thinking they are the best.

Keep Up the Good Fight!

October 26th, 2011
4:01 pm

Ummm… sure md… do try to show using the definition of the word “use” in the actual applications the distinction that you now attempt to rely upon to make your error correct?

md

October 26th, 2011
4:01 pm

“md: Really though, taxes are designed specifically to evenly spread the money gathered fromt axes towards projects for the public good”

And going back to initial debate, isn’t said factory owner also a member of the “public”?

For Ms warren seems to imply that he is not………

getalife

October 26th, 2011
4:02 pm

New poll numbers.

willard is winning.

Told ya it is willard’s turn to lose to our President.

Kamchak

October 26th, 2011
4:04 pm

Told ya it is willard’s turn to lose to our President.

And I still say Perry will win the nomination.

FrankLeeDarling

October 26th, 2011
4:04 pm

Cons have a hard time with graphs because you can’t see them on talk radio

I also find the social Darwinism from the con nauseating

md

October 26th, 2011
4:04 pm

“Ummm… sure md… do try to show using the definition of the word “use” in the actual applications the distinction that you now attempt to rely upon to make your error correct?”

Whats the old saying……an error on your interpretation does not equate to an error on the meaning of my post…..

Must be the lawyer in you……twist it so that the other guy didn’t say what he actually said………..

AmVet

October 26th, 2011
4:04 pm

The force-feeding education of the ostriches goes on…

Unlike the richest Americans, middle class families have most of their wealth tied up in the equity of their homes, which took a beating in the recession. And high unemployment has left many people with little or no other income at all.

At the same time that Americans had less cash to spend, they were also being hit with rising prices for some crucial items. Health insurance for a family of four – $13,770. Even accounting for inflation, it still costs more to buy a home, fill your gas tank, go to the doctor and put food on the table than it did only 10 years ago.

And not only is it more expensive to live a middle-class life, it costs more to get there too. The price of a college education — still considered the ticket to higher wages and a better lifestyle — has surged over the last decade, even in spite of the recession.

Facing these burdens, the American Dream is undergoing stark changes, with fewer people choosing to buy homes and more young people postponing their own independent lives. The census data showed about 14.2% of all young people ages 25 to 34 are still living in their parents’ homes this year, compared to about 11.8% before the recession began in 2007.

And that poses a challenge for the economy going forward. After all, what will the middle class and the American Dream look like another decade from now, if the younger generations still can’t get their feet off the ground?

getalife

October 26th, 2011
4:05 pm

kam,

perry will not even do all the debates.

Just awful.

Your Aristocratic Patriarch

October 26th, 2011
4:06 pm

If we don’t give rich people all the money, they won’t give the rest of us jobs.

Kamchak

October 26th, 2011
4:07 pm

getalife

Not doing the debate is probably Perry’s best move.

TaxPayer

October 26th, 2011
4:10 pm

Who was it that wrote a law specifying that Pi = 3.0. Unfortunately, there is no way to avoid breaking that law.

Keep Up the Good Fight!

October 26th, 2011
4:10 pm

So md, you make a claim that you were using a word in a different manner and then when ask to clarify, you run away like a coward. no problem. Cowards will do that.

md

October 26th, 2011
4:12 pm

“So md, you make a claim that you were using a word in a different manner and then when ask to clarify, you run away like a coward. no problem. Cowards will do that.”

Good job…….go with the insults……does that really work for you in real life?

getalife

October 26th, 2011
4:13 pm

Kam,

He will run the Mormon card ads but will hurt willard in the general.

willard’s housing plan is to let it fail so the cons love that.

willard will win all the debates.

cain is still punking the cons with a joke of a book tour and still running a close second. Amazing gullibility.

In the end, cons will think willard has the best chance of beating our President but are wrong as usual.

TaxPayer

October 26th, 2011
4:16 pm

So, did Obama predict that Perry would kick himself off the island.

Keep Up the Good Fight!

October 26th, 2011
4:17 pm

md, not an insult if its true about you. And sorry, in real life, a judge would have determined you to either back your claim or be judged an arse. You would not be able to “cower” behind a lawyer twisting words when you were proven wrong. Its your problem, squirt.

Bosch

October 26th, 2011
4:18 pm

Seriously, I asked this question earlier:

Where is SoCo??

getalife

October 26th, 2011
4:18 pm

I should add my final point.

willard will lose because he flip flops on just about every issue.

md

October 26th, 2011
4:19 pm

“Its your problem, squirt.”

Oh boy…..more names…….get it all out……might make you feel better.

Then you may want to go back and clarify your interpretation of my post vs demanding others clarify your faulty interpretation……….

AmVet

October 26th, 2011
4:19 pm

Incomes for 90% of Americans have been stuck in neutral, and it’s not just because of the Great Recession. Middle-class incomes have been stagnant for at least a generation, while the wealthiest tier has surged ahead at lighting speed.

In 1988, the income of an average American taxpayer was $33,400, adjusted for inflation. Fast forward 20 years, and not much had changed: The average income was still just $33,000 in 2008, according to IRS data.

One major pull on the working man was the decline of unions and other labor protections, said Bill Rodgers, a former chief economist for the Labor Department, now a professor at Rutgers University.

Because of deals struck through collective bargaining, union workers have traditionally earned 15% to 20% more than their non-union counterparts, Rodgers said.

But union membership has declined rapidly over the past 30 years. In 1983, union workers made up about 20% of the workforce. In 2010, they represented less than 12%.

“The erosion of collective bargaining is a key factor to explain why low-wage workers and middle income workers have seen their wages not stay up with inflation,” Rodgers said.

Without collective bargaining pushing up wages, especially for blue-collar work — average incomes have stagnated.

But for the millionaires/billionaires like so many of our cons here, this graph is peachy keen…

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/money/2011/02/16/news/economy/middle_class/chart-rise-of-super-rich-2.top.gif

Shawny

October 26th, 2011
4:20 pm

The ‘Buffets’ are gaining faster than the rest of us. Here is an excellent article on why the tax code needs simplified and flattened. A key point from the article:
“A recent analysis shows that the wealthiest 400 paid almost the same amount in taxes in 1994 as they paid in 1992, even though Clinton raised their taxes. Again, the rich can shelter their income, which the flat tax would catch.”
AND regarding corporations
“A flat tax would catch more corporations who have paid no net income taxes in recent years, including GE, Bank of America and Molson Coors”

Read more: http://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/2011/10/26/flat-tax-center-stage-again/

TaxPayer

October 26th, 2011
4:21 pm

When are the Republicans planning on bringing out their real presidential candidates. I mean, the people that they have brought out so far are entertaining in their own little ways but they are not really the GOP presidential candidates, are they!!!!!

ty webb

October 26th, 2011
4:22 pm

someone anonymously calling someone else a “coward”…oh the irony.

Keep Up the Good Fight!

October 26th, 2011
4:22 pm

no need md…. I love how your position contradicts your efforts to create lies about Elizabeth Warren as some sort of valid claim. It really is funny.

Kamchak

October 26th, 2011
4:26 pm

getalife

Saw this today about Mark “Smoking Man” Block

http://www.alternet.org/newsandviews/article/685582/6_things_to_know_about_%22smoking_man%22_in_herman_cain%27s_weird_new_ad_%28dude_was_banned_from_electoral_politics%29/

Banned from Wisconsin politics for three years in 2002 and paid a $15,000 fine for illegal campaign activities on behalf of a candidate for the state Supreme Court – Before Americans For Prosperity was a gleam in David Koch’s eye, Mark Block was getting himself into trouble flouting Wisconsin’s campaign laws.

Bosch

October 26th, 2011
4:26 pm

“In 2010, they represented less than 12%”

BUT AMVET!!! I thought UNIONS were the source of all evil and the reason for our declining labor force!!!

:)

pogo

October 26th, 2011
4:27 pm

The problem in a nutshell is that this country has too many “Baby B’s” who bought into the The New Deal type thing and all it promised them. And they lived their lives as they wanted, for good or bad, because they were promised the government would pick up the slack for their own shortcomings. And so it did, for a while. But now the bills for their indulgence are coming due and they are literally willing to sell out their own children and grand-children’s future to pay for their standard of living. And they follow the tired path of “the rich don’t pay enough” and they scream that this or that politician wants to cut ther medicare or SSN. What it really boils own to is that the “BB’s” don’t want to sacrifice anything. Alvin Lee had it right when he wrote, “tax the rich, feed the poor, until there are no, rich no more”. Taxing he rich won’t feed the excessive hunger of the greediest generation this country has ever known. They know that but after the rich are tapped out they would be willing to steal from their neighbors in order to maintain the lifestyle they were promised by a bunch of lying liberal politicians who only wanted to get elected. Sickening.

md

October 26th, 2011
4:27 pm

“I love how your position contradicts your efforts to create lies about Elizabeth Warren as some sort of valid claim”

Too funny……words do have meaning, and she said what she said……and she’s more than likely smart enough to know how she said it……….if not, then she has a bigger problem.

Bosch

October 26th, 2011
4:28 pm

So….isn’t there some kind of baseball tournament going on? How’s that going??

Keep Up the Good Fight!

October 26th, 2011
4:29 pm

Ahhh…. yes words do have meaning, except when you get called on them…then its an interpretation, twisting, parsing or some other excuse and not your words. :lol:

straitroad

October 26th, 2011
4:32 pm

I would like to see the same graph with a few other metrics added to it such as: hours worked, years waited before having children, education level, % of income saved vs % of income spent on beer or blue tooth, % that believe 40 hours is sufficient work week, priorities of spending.

Jay, you need to do some research on cause and effect. It would help you understand how hard work and sacrifice pay off.

ty webb

October 26th, 2011
4:32 pm

Bosch,
out here, it’s the biggest thing going on…I think people are actually sleeping in their Rangers gear. Not really a fan yet…those damn “T”’s on their hats remind me too much of those damn volunteers.

md

October 26th, 2011
4:33 pm

Am……those wages are merely a reflection of cost……think GM……not sustainable without consumer support.

You still refuse to acknowledge the fall is wages mirrors the period of consumer glutiny for lower priced goods.

The demand for lower priced goods causes a corresponding drop in expenses……which includes labor.

Bosch

October 26th, 2011
4:34 pm

ty,

Whose winning?

Butch Cassidy

October 26th, 2011
4:34 pm

Bosch – “BUT AMVET!!! I thought UNIONS were the source of all evil and the reason for our declining labor force!!!”

That’s right Bosch, nothing kills a companies profits more than safety regulations, liveable wages and the inability to hire 5 year olds to make your products. If we could kill the unions, we could get this country back to some good old family values. After all, what could be more effective in bringing families together than everyone working in the same factory all day 7 days a week and then spending quality time together inside the shipping crate they call home?

ty webb

October 26th, 2011
4:34 pm

Rangers 3-2.

Kamchak

October 26th, 2011
4:34 pm

% of income saved vs % of income spent on beer or blue tooth, % that believe 40 hours is sufficient work week

There’s your sign.

md

October 26th, 2011
4:35 pm

“Ahhh…. yes words do have meaning, except when you get called on them…then its an interpretation, twisting, parsing or some other excuse and not your words”

Once again…..I stand by what I said……it was not I that read it in some other context………

Kamchak

October 26th, 2011
4:37 pm

You still refuse to acknowledge the fall is wages mirrors the period of consumer glutiny[sic} for lower priced goods.

It also mirrors the fall in interest rates.

straitroad

October 26th, 2011
4:38 pm

Kam,

Please explain…I’m a little slow.

md

October 26th, 2011
4:39 pm

Butch…….nice little diatribe, but not close to reality.

The reality is that consumers are setting the wages…..and right now, the global market is setting the pace. It will not change until we as consumers dictate that change through our buying habits……

We continue to buy the cheap stuff from China, India, etc, then we best start thinking how to live on less, because that is what we will have……….

Butch Cassidy

October 26th, 2011
4:40 pm

Kamchack – “It also mirrors the fall in interest rates.”

Does the study also show the decline in IQ points that lead people to belive that the Herman Cains and Rick Perrys of the world are actually viable candidates for the office of POTUS?

Kamchak

October 26th, 2011
4:41 pm

Please explain…I’m a little slow.

40 hours a week is a sufficient amount of time to dedicate to a job.

md

October 26th, 2011
4:43 pm

“It also mirrors the fall in interest rates.”

Which made everything cheaper, to include those dastardly imports……of which we continue to buy at alarming rates.

Want to pay more to the guy at GM…..buy their products…..don’t make Hyundai the leading seller across the nation.

Butch Cassidy

October 26th, 2011
4:43 pm

md – “We continue to buy the cheap stuff from China, India, etc, then we best start thinking how to live on less, because that is what we will have……….”

What’s this we stuff? I understand that not everything I buy can be made in the U.S.. But on the other hand, if more people avoided Wal Mart, K-Mart and Target like I do, then they might actually make a dent.

Ol' Timer

October 26th, 2011
4:43 pm

As a percentage of GDP, taxes are at the lowest level in 60 years.

Could that be why we’re running such deficits?

Take away tax breaks for the weathiest 1% and the Republican/Tea Party has no platform to run on and the middle-class keeps supporting them — they just keep bending over. I don’t understand it!

Butch Cassidy

October 26th, 2011
4:45 pm

md – “Want to pay more to the guy at GM…..buy their products”

I drive a 2010 Camaro. Of course the downside is that it was actually made in Canada and shipped across the lake.

larry

October 26th, 2011
4:46 pm

Want to pay more to the guy at GM…..buy their products. I actually do that

But the problem remains for every time we step into a Wal mart , Target, K mart etc.. etc.,

You have no choice when you step in to those stores.

md

October 26th, 2011
4:47 pm

“What’s this we stuff? I understand that not everything I buy can be made in the U.S.. But on the other hand, if more people avoided Wal Mart, K-Mart and Target like I do, then they might actually make a dent.”

That “we” would be “We the people of the USA” as a collective……..and “we” best start acting as one if “we” want to see those wages increase…….or go to work for a corp doing business overseas…….

AmVet

October 26th, 2011
4:48 pm

Ladies and germs, let’s get one thing straight, OK?

Elizabeth Warren is a genius.

Especially compared to the combined intellect of all of the GOP’s current candidates.

The woman’s track record is as good as theirs is bad…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=wK1MOMKZ8BI

Kamchak

October 26th, 2011
4:49 pm

Does the study also show the decline in IQ points that lead people to belive that the Herman Cains and Rick Perrys of the world are actually viable candidates for the office of POTUS?

I think you’re doing a disservice to Cain and Perry supporters, and to a further extent, conservatives in general. This period in time (1979 to present) also defines a generation that was weaned on talk-radio. Even intelligent people can be programmed if they listen to the same message day in and day out.

Are Cain and Perry viable candidates for president?

Not in my definition of the word “viable.”

md

October 26th, 2011
4:50 pm

“You have no choice when you step in to those stores.”

The choice is to not step into those stores……..or let those stores know you prefer US goods….but one has to speak with their wallet.

Until “we” do that, nothing will change.

Aquagirl

October 26th, 2011
4:50 pm

40 hours a week is a sufficient amount of time to dedicate to a job.

You’d think all these “family values” nuts would understand working 12 hour days isn’t doing much for families.

That Black guy

October 26th, 2011
4:51 pm

Bosch

October 26th, 2011
2:06 pm
Paul,

Yes, I am always in awe of the arrogance of people who sit there and sanctimoniously judge other people.

Those are usually the same people who will quote you a Bible verse or two, but then will turn around with their hypocritical selves and forget that the very foundation of their belief system is that all men are valued and deemed worthy of redemption and grace.

Bosch, where did Gordon judge ANYONE? He axed a question. How do you tackle a situation without knowing the cause of the problem? Some people (poor because of luck) need access to opportunities and assistance. Some people (poor because of behavour) need incentives and disincentives to curtail that behavour. Trying to help group 1 using remidies designed for group 2 will not work. That is what I think Gordon was trying to get to.

BTW, you do realize YOU judged HIM, right?

That Black guy

October 26th, 2011
4:51 pm

I meant to spell “axed” that way.

saywhat?

October 26th, 2011
4:53 pm

“the 7 percent shift in household income from the middle 60 percent of Americans to the richest 1 percent represents a shift of $539 billion a year”

Jay, that sentence is the key. That $539 billion, if it was still going to the middle 60% of Americans, would be all the stimulus the economy needs, because the bulk of that money would be spent on goods and services here in the U.S. Instead that money is hoarded, or worse yet, invested in paper profit Wall Street financial schemes which produce nothing but liabilities for the average taxpayer.

Butch Cassidy

October 26th, 2011
4:54 pm

Kamchack – “Not in my definition of the word “viable.”

Wouldn’t it be great to have the ability to see what a debate between Dwight Eisenhower, Ronald Reagan, George Bush 1, Rick Perry and Herman would look like? 3 Candidates with lengthy military and political backgrounds up against 999 and Ponzi scheme. God, I would give anything to see that!

md

October 26th, 2011
4:55 pm

The power we hold as consumers:

“Delta says it’s no longer outsourcing reservation calls to India.
Why? The move was made in response to years of complaints by American customers who say they sometimes have a tremendous amount of difficulty understanding the foreign telephone workers.
Richard Anderson, the airline’s chief executive, told employees in a recorded message Thursday night that Delta had stopped forwarding calls to India in the first quarter and would be bringing the function back in-house in the United States.
“The customer acceptance of call centers in foreign countries is low and our customers were not shy about letting us have that feedback,” he said.
Delta employed about 4,500 call-center workers in the United States after it ended its outsourcing operations in India, said Kent Landers, a Delta spokesman, in an e-mail.
While it has closed shop in India, the carrier will maintain its centers in Jamaica and South Africa, Landers said.
Delta’s retrenchment comes about two months after United said it would pull 165 call-center jobs back to the United States to improve customer service.”

blue_unicorn

October 26th, 2011
4:55 pm

“I drive a 2010 Camaro.”

The truth is out. Butch Cassidy is a yankee redneck.

David

October 26th, 2011
4:56 pm

Sometimes even I am amazed by how big of an @$$ Jay Bookman can be. I hate the whole who gets what who doesn’t get what BS that both parties use. Here are some basic facts that unless you are a complete moron you can’t argue with. 1) The government does not control, no should they control how much money a person can earn. Yes I know it seems unfair that 1% can get a bigger income than you but there are reason some fair and some unfair, but as they say life is not fair and government doesn’t control this. 2) There are some definate basic functions of life that government needs to do 3) Payroll taxes go to paying Social Security and are not for general funds (or at least that is what we are told so we will hold to it) 4) the Top Money earners already pay 60% of taxes and 49% of the country pay 0% income tax. With all of this information and data that are facts here is the truth if you change the tax code to balance it out (it have more people paying taxes) those that are currently paying the largest percentage will pay a lower percentage and those paying 0% will pay more. Here is the good news, people with lots of money tend to like to make their money work for them so the will end up investing more, perhaps spending more, creating jobs, etc. which will inturn raise the waters for those on the lower end of the scale. Also when you are paying taxes you start to care how the money is being spent so you have an increase in government accountability to the people.

Butch Cassidy

October 26th, 2011
4:57 pm

blue_unicorn – “The truth is out. Butch Cassidy is a yankee redneck”

Yeah, but it only costs me $450 a month to park it in Manhattan.

SwedeAtlanta

October 26th, 2011
4:57 pm

The end result of continued concentration of wealth will be a society very different from that in which most of us grew up.

At some point you will have the wealthy all living in compounds surrounded by fences and protected by armed guards. They will do this because the proverty and lack of opportunity among the rest of the population will increase the level of lawless violence. This will go well beyond the level of violence we see in our country today.

The “have nots” will not be able to purchase many of the goods produced by overseas factories owned and controlled by the “haves”. They will have to find new markets for their goods as American purchasing power continues to decline.

That is not the America into which I was born and for which my parents worked so hard and saved.

Kamchak

October 26th, 2011
5:00 pm

…people with lots of money tend to like to make their money work for them so the will end up investing more, perhaps spending more, creating jobs, etc.

Ah yes, the trickle-on, phlogiston Econ101 argument.

Trouble is, thirty years of history has proven that to be false.

Soothsayer

October 26th, 2011
5:02 pm

Jay, you got me on the graphic! Ha! Ha!

Anyway, what it seems to me like is going on that the rich want to profit wildly from supplying materiel for “wars to nowhere,” yet they don’t want to have to pay any tax on that income. Does that sound about right?

godless heathen

October 26th, 2011
5:02 pm

Interesting side point about the Income Tax. It was instituted to facilitate Prohibition. The federal gov depended on revenue from alcohol sales and could not afford to ban alcohol sales without an Income Tax. (According to the Ken Burns special on Prohibition.)

But when Prohibition was repealed, the Income Tax wasn’t repealed, the Government just used that money also.

md

October 26th, 2011
5:02 pm

“the 7 percent shift in household income from the middle 60 percent of Americans to the richest 1 percent represents a shift of $539 billion a year”

Misleading info…….once again folks, we do not live in a closed economy…..so numbers like that are tiny snapshots of wealth at a single given point in time.

In reality, much of that money from the middle class is going to folks overseas……like the Toyota workers, and the Honda workers, and now the Hyundai workers……..

And they thank you for it while you chase the mythical bad guy over here.

AmVet

October 26th, 2011
5:03 pm

Kam, @5:00.

Normal sized that one up perfectly this morning…

http://images.cheezburger.com/completestore/2009/11/7/129021008687645509.jpg

Kamchak

October 26th, 2011
5:06 pm

Missed that one, brother AmVet.

Thanks.

Soothsayer

October 26th, 2011
5:07 pm

How on Earth anyone could vote Republican is beyond me.Great photo AmVet!

pogo

October 26th, 2011
5:07 pm

You gotta love it. On one hand Obama announces he supports the Occupy Wall Street crowd (whose only central motivation, as far as anyone can deduce, is their hatred for Wall Street) while hiring an ex-wall street lobbyist to a leadership role in his re-election campaign. I have to give Obama one thing, he is smart enough to know that his base too damned stupid or greedy to know or care what he is really doing and he knows that they will vote for him no matter how corrupt he is. Jay is a fine example of this. Never have I seen Jay print one criticism of Obama. Never. This pretty much makes him a tool to be used for a cause, because he certainly is not a journalist. A true journalist will find fault with any poltician because a true journalist knows that every politician at one point or the other lies and cheats. But not Jay. No, old Jay is propagandist, and nothing more.

Proud to be me!

October 26th, 2011
5:08 pm

Life is not fair . . never has been . . never will be. I’m far from rich but am ever so thankful for what I have. I don’t envy rich people and I don’t expect them to pity me or give me any of their money. The individuals that I truly loathe are not the Wall Street (which is regulated by our government) nor the rich people but rather our Congressional leaders and our President and his administration. And the individuals who use the term “poor” . . . “the poor” this and “the poor” that. There are so many resources available through government programs, non-profit organizations, professional sports players, churches and community organizations for “the poor” and yet all we hear is more and more for the “poor” Free cellphones, food stamps, health care, computers!!!! For goodness sake!

md

October 26th, 2011
5:08 pm

“They will have to find new markets for their goods as American purchasing power continues to decline.”

They did……a few places on the other side of the globe called China and India…….we sent them all enough money to start buying stuff on their own…….and their economies are growing at double digit paces……….

“China grew by 10.3% last year, a punishing pace to beat. India, according to the advance estimate by its Central Statistics Office (CSO), grew by 8.6%. Fast, but not fast enough. But today a colleague pointed me to the IMF’s latest World Economic Outlook (Table 1.1), released earlier this week. It says that India grew by 10.4% in 2010.”

Kamchak

October 26th, 2011
5:09 pm

How on Earth anyone could vote Republican is beyond me.

Wedgie issues.

Keep Up the Good Fight!

October 26th, 2011
5:19 pm

So when you buy that Kia made in Georgia you are supporting who? That iPhone made in China supports who? That Mercedes made in Alamaba supports who? That Toyota assembled in Kentucky?

Again, Buy American is a nice bumper sticker….but in reality very difficult to put into practice as many have found out.

AmVet

October 26th, 2011
5:20 pm

…Wall Street (which is regulated by our government)…

For the most part, true.

Up until thirty years ago.

1980 – Depository Institutions Deregulation and Monetary Control Act PL 96-221
1980 – Motor Carrier Act PL 96-296
1980 – Regulatory Flexibility Act PL 96-354
1980 – Staggers Rail Act PL 96-448
1982 – Garn–St. Germain Depository Institutions Act PL 97-320
1982 – Bus Regulatory Reform Act PL 97-261
1989 – Natural Gas Wellhead Decontrol Act PL 101-60
1992 – National Energy Policy Act PL 102-486
1996 – Telecommunications Act PL 104-104
1999 – Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act PL 106-102

Kamchak

October 26th, 2011
5:22 pm

AmVet

October 26th, 2011
5:23 pm

…the Occupy Wall Street crowd (whose only central motivation, as far as anyone can deduce, is their hatred for Wall Street)…

Close, but you left out one VERY important word at the end, pogo.

Malfeasance.

Keep Up the Good Fight!

October 26th, 2011
5:25 pm

Pogo: Never have I seen Jay print one criticism of Obama. Never

Blowhardiness gets in the way of reality…..Soylndra bankruptcy an embarrasment to Obama I am sure there are other examples…

Does the real tool know how to apologize to Bookman?

md

October 26th, 2011
5:27 pm

“So when you buy that Kia made in Georgia you are supporting who? That iPhone made in China supports who? That Mercedes made in Alamaba supports who? That Toyota assembled in Kentucky?

Again, Buy American is a nice bumper sticker….but in reality very difficult to put into practice as many have found out.”

There is an American connection to all of them……importers, franchise owners, etc etc…..but, a good bit of that money goes back to the mother ship……..

It took decades to get away from US goods……it won’t happen over night, and it will be painful for some…….but to continue on this path will be painful for many more…….

I could care less if one labels it “bumper sticker”…..it is what it is.

“We” control our own destiny……as to what that destiny is is up to us. Some buying US goods while the rest are buying cheap imports will only ensure that the money continues to go off-shore.

Kamchak

October 26th, 2011
5:29 pm

…..it is what it is.

And …………….. repetition …………. is ………………… repetition.

josef

October 26th, 2011
5:30 pm

Bosch…

SoCo/Brosephus checks in at Kyle’s on occasion, him and Hillbilly…

Keep Up the Good Fight!

October 26th, 2011
5:34 pm

Again, nice bumper sticker but no explanation of what is our “choice” to “control our own destiny” to “buy US goods”. Saying we contraol our own destiny and we need to create a matter-anti-matter drive doe NOT create one. You still need to outline the plans and build it. Show me precisely how I determine what products I encounter every single day are US or not? Can you do more than chant a bumper sticker, md? You going with the “good bit of money goes back to the mother ship” test that isn’t really a test?

pogo

October 26th, 2011
5:34 pm

The EU is in shambles. Decades of socialism and progressivism have finally caught up with them. And now they are begging China to help them to continue to finance their socialist dreams. The US is far ahead of the curve on them on one hand and behind them on the other. We have been begging and receiving the Chinese (much to our own greedy detriment) to finance our liberal spending for years. What is perplexing is that Obama continues to want to make America into Europe. His vision of what America should be is at the very least impared and his adherence to the Keynesian dream is over and he is not smart enough to know it. There is no money to pay for the liberal utopia that Europe promised its peoples and there is not enough money to pay for what the liberals want in this country. The “holiest of holy’s” for liberal ideology is France. Many a liberal has yearned for America to be like them. But the reality is that now France is in a steady state of decline and will be joining Greece, Spain and Italy very soon in their fiscal misery. And why? They adopted the very multi-culturialist/socialist dream that the rest of Europe embraced. We thought WWII was bad but what is coming over there is going to be worse. There is about to be an extreme right turn in Europe. An extreme turn in any direction is not a good thing. But make no mistake, socialism is the culprit and that is exactly what Obama adheres to because he is not smart enough to know that there is no perfect situation in any political ideology. There is no such thing as “equal”. Politicians may promise it but they will never be able to deliver it because it simply does not exist. There will always be those that try harder, who perform better and that live way better because of their efforts than and those that do not. That is the way in nature and that is the way in mankind. Afterall, we are nothing but animals ourselves. And for anyone to promise that it will be otherwise is a total lie. And Obama is a liar.

josef

October 26th, 2011
5:35 pm

pogo

I have seen Jay criticise Obama…not often and not with a great deal of passion, but he has done it…

Aquagirl

October 26th, 2011
5:35 pm

Buy American is a nice bumper sticker….but in reality very difficult to put into practice as many have found out.

But somehow American consumers (who are getting whooped in this economy) are supposed to police the corporations—-which have the same rights as consumers (since they’re people too) but none of the responsibility. Yeah, it’s the eeeeevil consumer’s fault.

I will never understand this Republican love for self-punishment. I wish they’d just hire those hookers with the whips and chains for a few hours a week instead of projecting their fetish into politics.

JohnnyReb

October 26th, 2011
5:35 pm

getalife – I dodge in out of here because I actually do have a company in which to work. At 3 something you posted that I am an idiot. That means you have nothing of value to add to the debate.

I try to contain my derogatory remarks about fellow posters to general, accepted comments such as Moonbats, liberals, bleeding hearts, etc. You will gain more respect if you do the same.

josef

October 26th, 2011
5:37 pm

pogo

Liberals want us to be France? G-d forbid! Most of the liberals I know look at Europe as several case studies in what NOT to do…

md

October 26th, 2011
5:39 pm

Funny….some here need others to show them how to do things……..shoot, figure it out….that used to be the American way.

Or are we so dependent on others to do it for us that we can’t function?

The internet is a wonderful starting point……..one can even reference soco’s past list…..and if all else fails, read the label.

Or, if one really wants to get industrious, one can ask the company all the questions they may have…..

JohnnyReb

October 26th, 2011
5:39 pm

It was reported today the State Department has spent $70K on the Obama book Dreams of My Father placing it in embassy libraries. No prior administration has done anything similar. Just another indicator of no class and inflated ego.

Aquagirl

October 26th, 2011
5:41 pm

…So pogo gets caught saying dumb@$$ junk, and tries to hide behind a completely unconnected tl;dr block of text.

Reminds me of kids who cover their face and think they are invisible. Yeah, we didn’t see that at all.

md

October 26th, 2011
5:45 pm

“But somehow American consumers (who are getting whooped in this economy) are supposed to police the corporations—-which have the same rights as consumers (since they’re people too) but none of the responsibility. Yeah, it’s the eeeeevil consumer’s fault. ”

Let me guess…..the gov’t needs to do it?

Do you suggest isolationism? What exactly will they do for us??

I’m beginning to see the problem…….let others do it seems to be the prevailing thought around here……..

Mighty Righty

October 26th, 2011
5:45 pm

…the Occupy Wall Street crowd (whose only central motivation, as far as anyone can deduce, is their hatred for Wall Street)…

It is being reported that many of the WSO protesters are former ACORN organizers, managers and paid professional agitators. These protests are not as spontaneous as reported. In New York, organizers were going door to door collecting money for fraudulent causes. In one case saying they represented the teachers unions and were raising money for the teachers. They are paying demonstrators as much as 100 dollars a day and a minimum of 10.00 dollars per hour.

AmVet

October 26th, 2011
5:48 pm

Herman Cain in 1965 at Morehouse, when he was “too young to participate in the civil rights movement.”

http://www.ajc.com/multimedia/dynamic/01168/Herman_Cain__65_Ye_1168709l.jpg

Kamchak

October 26th, 2011
5:49 pm

I wish they’d just hire those hookers with the whips and chains for a few hours a week instead of projecting their fetish into politics.

They call those “fundraisers.”

Bosch

October 26th, 2011
5:50 pm

MR

That’s being reported where?? Let me make one guess…

:roll:

BOB FROM ACCOUNT TEMPS

October 26th, 2011
5:50 pm

so let me get this straight jay – when you say income shift, you imply that “someone” took money from the poor guys pay check and gave it to the rich guy, even though there was a big jump in the minimum wage during the same time period as well as tax cuts for all brackets?

Kamchak

October 26th, 2011
5:51 pm

ACORN?

I got a BINGO!

Good thing I kept some of those old cards, huh?

AmVet

October 26th, 2011
5:52 pm

It is being reported that many of the WSO protesters are former ACORN organizers, managers and paid professional agitators.

It is also being reported that many of Jay Bookman’s right wing bloggers are former Communists, neo-Nazis and used car salesmen.

Keep Up the Good Fight!

October 26th, 2011
5:53 pm

You mean those “made in America” stickers that are not required to be put on products? Or maybe its the Buy American Act passed in 1933….yeah that did a lot to stem the tide. How well did the Buy American provision in the stim work…ask Canada how they got an exemption?

But a bumper sticker mantra is easy to say….like 9-9-9. Then start actually implementing it and it seems to have a great many holes… but its still easy to claim that its someone’s fault for not following the bumper sticker.

getalife

October 26th, 2011
5:53 pm

Yeah reb,

I post to get cons to “respect” me.

Just returning your mindless idiot comment.

I did not feel like thinking.

jm

October 26th, 2011
5:53 pm

Super committee is falling apart. Baaaaaad news.

josef

October 26th, 2011
5:54 pm

Here’s a thought…go into the bumper sticker bidness…

Paul

October 26th, 2011
5:55 pm

Bob Temp

You are describing the process.

Jay, thru the CBO, described the result.

Keep Up the Good Fight!

October 26th, 2011
5:56 pm

Aqua…It is shameful isn’t it.

Its still reported that James O’Keefe is a lying criminal! :D

md

October 26th, 2011
5:56 pm

Keep…..we are a Nation of individuals…..one can choose to do as they please.

If one chooses to take it upon themselves and buy “made in the USA”, one will do so.

Others, will choose to make excuses………..

josef

October 26th, 2011
5:56 pm

getalife

Don’t often agree with Johnny Reb on a lot of things, but I’ll tell you one thing, he’s got my respect a lot more than just about anybody posting here…

Keep Up the Good Fight!

October 26th, 2011
5:56 pm

josef — All American Bumper Stickers?

josef

October 26th, 2011
5:59 pm

good fight…

Yeah, All American Bumper Stickers, and EOI Company! :-)

getalife

October 26th, 2011
6:00 pm

Josef,

Of course, he is a rebel.

josef

October 26th, 2011
6:00 pm

md

We’re “buy American” types in this household, and it ain’t easy!

Jay

October 26th, 2011
6:02 pm

Somebody ought to post here as Johnny Yuma.

In the meantime, sheets….

Paul

October 26th, 2011
6:03 pm

josef

“We’re “buy American” types in this household, and it ain’t easy!”

Yeah, it’s getting harder and harder to smuggle in those foreigners to do the household chores….

josef

October 26th, 2011
6:03 pm

getalife

That’s not why. You may have missed it, but that straight man said what I’ve spent a lifetime waiting to hear from heterosexuals…would more of y’all were such (lower case) rebels…

And Johnny Reb….did you catch any of the CNN thingie from Anderson Cooper on bullying? Thought about you while tuning in… :-)

Keep Up the Good Fight!

October 26th, 2011
6:04 pm

md, you keep repeating the bumper sticker and then blaming people but I dont see any details on how exactly people are suppose to determine what are “American” products other than your claim to politely ask companies about their products and hope they take the time to give you all the information and invest hours into shopping for a $10 product. Seems a wise choice, right?

It would make more sense for a Made in America label requirement to be imposed by law on all companies. And even that would be difficult to monitor as the FTC has already demonstrated.

josef

October 26th, 2011
6:04 pm

IMAM

Dang! I should have made a bet… :-)

Kamchak

October 26th, 2011
6:04 pm

Newt sheets upstairs.

TruthBe

October 26th, 2011
6:05 pm

So where are the Democrats new tax reform ideals?? Oh, they don’t have any just MORE TAX INCREASES for ALL Americans. Tax and Spend Democrats. Obama’s BS so-called jobs bill is nothing more than new tax increases.

getalife

October 26th, 2011
6:05 pm

“JohnnyReb

October 26th, 2011
3:15 pm

OMG, Bosch – Elizabeth Warren is an educated idiot.”

I jumped on him for that comment,

Aquagirl

October 26th, 2011
6:08 pm

Let me guess…..the gov’t needs to do it?

Yes, the government needs to stop passing legislation that ensures the profitability of big-box chains selling chinese crap. That means things like stop subsidizing the trucking industry. Their distribution chains are dependent on that truck that flips over on 285 during rush hour. Let McDonald’s pay for the garbage they generate, instead of passing it along to the county with subsidized landfills.

There’s plenty more, but you get the idea.

Expecting everyone to “do the right thing” and buy American is quite fanciful. Sort of like depending on voluntary contribution of taxes, that worked out so well we now live under the Constitution, not the Articles of Confederation.

People are just now figuring out how they pay for illegal aliens. As we can see in Georgia, unless we have comprehensive legislation that covers all 50 states, it’s not gonna work. It’s easy for corporations to hide their costs while collecting profits. Not all consumers have the time to research every single thing they buy. That’s insane and not based in reality.

Mighty Righty

October 26th, 2011
6:08 pm

Bosch

October 26th, 2011
5:50 pm
You read it didn’t you? Yeh, the WSO people have taken in over $500,000. Volunteers have to fill out paper work to get at it. They put the money CD’s. You want to bet they don’t have a charitable tax exemption. Let’s see, those with taxable income of more than $350,000 are part of the evil 1%!
You suppose Eric Holder and the IRS will go after them? Obama wants everyone to pay their fair share. $500,000 without any write offs would be a tax liability of more than $200,000. They better keep their records straight. Whoever made that deposit ispersonally liable. This could be a lot of fun.

md

October 26th, 2011
6:11 pm

“md, you keep repeating the bumper sticker and then blaming people but I dont see any details on how exactly people are suppose to determine what are “American” products other than your claim to politely ask companies about their products and hope they take the time to give you all the information and invest hours into shopping for a $10 product. Seems a wise choice, right? ”

Wise choice? I’d guess that would depend on the importance given to the matter by the individual.

And if you look closely in your response, you can find the excuse hiding in there.

Mighty Righty

October 26th, 2011
6:12 pm

My bad…left out the part where they actually put the money in a “Wall Street” bank account. Can anyone imagine the dummy’s we have seen interviwed on TV handling $500,000. I mean seriously.

Mighty Righty

October 26th, 2011
6:14 pm

Just to clear up some misconceptions: All imports must be lableled with country of origin. It’s the law.

md

October 26th, 2011
6:17 pm

“Yes, the government needs to stop passing legislation that ensures the profitability of big-box chains selling chinese crap. That means things like stop subsidizing the trucking industry. Their distribution chains are dependent on that truck that flips over on 285 during rush hour. Let McDonald’s pay for the garbage they generate, instead of passing it along to the county with subsidized landfills. ”

Yes, I get the idea…….but I don’t think you understand the equation. We can force them to do such and such all day long……..and each demand comes with a cost…….that is built into the cost we pay as consumers. You sound as if you have a problem with corporations, yet we are the corporations…….and we need jobs.

As for fanciful………I’m merely stating my opinion of what it will take to get this country back on track……..seeing as how it was us consumers that put us here in the first place, I don’t have a lot of hope that the masses will do what is necessary……….and in that case, many of us lose.

Mighty Righty

October 26th, 2011
6:24 pm

Acquagirl-Please explain how the government subsdises the trucking industry what Mc Donalds trash has to do with anything.

Adam

October 26th, 2011
7:52 pm

Read my lips: No New Tax Cuts!

JKL2

October 26th, 2011
9:07 pm

getalife- I did not feel like thinking

And you prove it several times a day.

Find your billfold yet? I’ll be the guy in the Army uniform driving the government van thru Atlanta tomorrow if you run across it.

Eli Jones

October 27th, 2011
8:25 am

This petition demands that congress stop the massive spending. You, your kids and your grand kids will have to pay this wasted money back because it is borrowed money. Make your voice heard by signing this petition and pass it on.

http://cutspendingnow.org/petition/

Eli Jones

October 27th, 2011
8:25 am

Because of Eric Holder’s and Barack Obama’s gun running, US border agent Brian Terry and US immigration customs enforcement agent Jaime Zapata were killed by those guns. Also over two hundred of Mexico’s citizens have been slaughtered by Holder’s and Obama’s guns. Obama used 10 Million dollars of our tax money to finance the Fast And Furious insanity.
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SIGN THE PETITION TO PROSECUTE ERIC HOLDER FOR “FAST AND FURIOUS” (and pass it on)

http://act.theteaparty.net/5273/prosecute-eric-holder/

Adam

October 27th, 2011
9:07 am

Conservatives love to top post on the old posts.

You are all too chicken to join the current conversation.

Beep Beep

October 27th, 2011
10:36 am

Yesterday I watched my 2 boys in their regional Cross Country meet. It was not unlike the “wealth gap”. There were a few way out front, more in the middle and some way back. Knowing many of the kids and have seen then train it was not hard to guess where most individuals will be at the end of the race. Yes some of them have more talent than others, but the top finishers always work harder, train longer and take care of their bodies. This is like income earners. They get an education, get a career, don’t have 4 kids by 3 different sperm donors and work way harder and longer than others. The ones that have kids in high school, don’t learn anything, don’t graduate and don’t go to college, don’t work harder will always finish last. There is no fair share and wealth is not a stagnant resource. It is there for anyone to go after. I have a 1 – 1 – 1 plan for Herman Cain to add to his platform. For those enlightened individuals that espouse the wonderful socialist way of life can trade in their US citizenship and go to Cuba, China, Venezuela, North Korea, Somali, etc in exchange for one of those countries individuals that want a capitalist opportunity in the United States. This is a 1 for 1 trade, 1 time only. Everyone then gets the system they want.

Adam

October 28th, 2011
8:10 am

Beep Beep: That is a ridiculous analogy. It doesn’t apply. For one thing. you don’t “earn” billions of dollars. You accumulate it and use it to grow more of it, through capital gains and other such financial gimmicks.

John

October 28th, 2011
9:30 pm

Libertarian
October 26th, 2011
11:06 am
You say:
“There is one thing missing from your graphic. The word “give” is misleading. By letting someone keep more of their money you are not “giving” them anything. I think what you want is for the top 1% to “give” more money to the bottom half.”

While I am sure you think you were very cute, the issue is much more serious than that. The Republican tax reform plan is not designed to help this country get out of debt, because by definition it is “revenue neutral” . That means not an extra cent will go into the tax coffers. This is not a question of giving Caesar, what is Caesar’s. So, why would any moral elected official decide it is in our country’s best interest to increase taxes on the poor and middle class just to fund another generous tax break for those at the top? Once you understand young families, will be hurt the most, and how children will suffer over this ill conceived Republican plan, you will see it is so wrong minded. Young families spent nearly every discretionary dollar they have to help their children be all they can be. I can remember doing all I could to have enough money to buy badly needed tutors, and educational tools for my kids. If, I tried even harder, I could afford a week of Boy Scout camp, or a vacation every few years, even if it was just camping out for a long weekend. “We” need to “invest” for tomorrow, and if it means keeping a graduating tax rates to do so, it is for the better good of this country. This means letting the poor and the middle class keeping more of their own hard earned money; if this concept is good for the rich, it is certainly good for the poor, don’t you agree? I believe our divine maker understands the concept and would support it, too. I hope others will open their hearts.

Beep Beep

October 30th, 2011
11:14 am

Adam that is the difference in people like you that feel you only earn what your union has set as your wage. Many people take “earned” monies and use other avenues to grow that money. You call them gimmicks…we call them investments and they ARE earned!

Adam

October 30th, 2011
7:59 pm

Beep Beep: No, that’s gambling. Did you “earn” the money you got when you won the jackpot. No. But it is still classified as income, and should be taxed the same as any other income.

Money to grow money is a gimmick. Not something you earn. There’s certainly no real value in that, especially when compared to the value of hard working individuals.

And btw, there are no unions anywhere where I live. They have been drummed out of society, and all I see are communities falling apart as the communities I live in and nearby fall to pieces trying to pay as few people as little as possible to get as much profit as possible for the big boss.