Sorting out the impact of GOP tax-reform plans
In recent weeks we’ve been confronted by a slew of tax proposals from GOP presidential candidates, ranging from Herman Cain’s “9-9-9″ plan to Rick Perry’s “Cut, Balance and Grow Plan.” For many voters, the details of those various proposals can no doubt get a little hazy and confusing.
To address that problem, I’ve been wanting to put together a comprehensive post addressing all of the plans at once. Thanks to the release of Rick Perry’s plan and a new report on household incomes released Tuesday by the Congressional Budget Office, I finally have the analytical data I needed to pull it all together.
Before we go further, let’s review the CBO findings:
1.) The overall federal tax system became less progressive between 1979 and 2007, thanks largely to the greater relative impact of payroll taxes.
2.) The share of federal transfer payments going to poor Americans also fell sharply, from more than 50 percent to 35 percent. According to CBO, “that shift reflects the growth in spending for programs focused on the elderly population (such as Social Security and Medicare), in which benefits are not limited to low-income households.”
3. The study also documents the ongoing concentration of national income among the richest 1 percent of U.S. households. It found that the share of after-tax income going to the lowest-income 20 percent of Americans fell between 1979 and 2007, dropping from 7 percent to 5 percent. In fact, income share fell by 2 to 3 percent for almost every income group. It rose only among the most affluent 1 percent. Their share of national income more than doubled, from 8 percent in 1979 to 17 percent in 2007.
(Although those percentage shifts may not sound like much, in real terms it is quite large. For example, the 7 percent shift in household income from the middle 60 percent of Americans to the richest 1 percent represents a shift of $539 billion a year from the 60 percent to the 1 percent. Overall, the CBO reports that income of the highest-earning 1 percent rose by 275 percent in that time frame, after inflation.)
Anyway, as promised the final exhaustive package on GOP tax-reform plans is available HERE. I’ve put it in the form of an info-graphic. Take a look and if you think I’m missing anything, or if you think of a way to make it clearer, let me know.
– Jay Bookman
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609 comments Add your comment
getalife
October 26th, 2011
1:30 pm
I think we are witnessing the end of the globalization scam for the 1 %.
Bring our jobs back home and end this scam.
Normal
October 26th, 2011
1:30 pm
RB from Gwinnett
October 26th, 2011
1:28 pm
Absolutely! I don’t have to agree with them, but I’ll defend their right to free speech and assembly.
USinUK
October 26th, 2011
1:31 pm
Guy – WORLD of difference between social engineering to ensure people have equal access to opportunities and social engineering to remove / withhold a basic human right.
F. Sinkwich
October 26th, 2011
1:34 pm
Looks like Barry is going after the “Ethnic Studies” vote:
“The Obama Administration announced it will accelerate changes in the federal loan program to make it easier for certain students to repay their loans. Students enrolled in the Income Based Repayment Plan will have their payments capped at 10 percent of discretionary income starting next year, and any remaining balance after 20 years will be forgiven.”
md
October 26th, 2011
1:34 pm
“The EU thingie has Germany saying they should not take peace for granted.”
Or taking the existence of the EU for granted…….the “producers” are questioning the whole concept at this point…….the ultimate experiment in socialistic concepts……..Greece (and others) asking for continual bailouts after they spent the money and collected no taxes………doesn’t fly too well at the moment.
Granny Godzilla
October 26th, 2011
1:36 pm
Gordon
Not Impressed? Golly.
“U.S. Democrats are proposing $2.5 trillion to $3 trillion in measures to reduce the budget deficit, including revenue increases and significant cuts to Medicare, congressional aides told Reuters.
The plan was unveiled Tuesday at a closed-door meeting of a special 12-member congressional panel, the so-called ‘’super committee”, that is tasked with finding at least $1.2 trillion in deficit reduction over 10 years.”
It certainly much more impressive than the GOP alternative.
Guy Incognito
October 26th, 2011
1:36 pm
“RB from Gwinnett
October 26th, 2011
1:28 pm
If it were the Klan camping out down in the park, would all you OWS sympathizers still be preaching their “right” to be there?”
Zing!
Of course they wouldn’t. They are the elite. They decide which speech falls under the 1st Amend, and which should be squelched.
Gordon
October 26th, 2011
1:37 pm
Armed Liberal,
Yes Blank and Marcus used roads, education, infrastructure, etc. while building HD, but THEY PAID for those things like all of us do. They had an innovative idea, which most of us do not. They took risk, which most of us do not. They worked harder and longer than most of us do. You have the same opportunity they did. And if you succeed, you will be rewarded handsomely (and pay higher taxes) just like them.
USinUK
October 26th, 2011
1:37 pm
“.the ultimate experiment in socialistic concepts”
ohsweetjeebus, would you people PLEASE learn the meaning of the word “socialist” and “socialism” before you go throwing it around???
really. it just makes you look stupid when you misuse it this way.
Granny Godzilla
October 26th, 2011
1:38 pm
RB
Hate the Klan….but would support their rights!
Like the Nazi’s in Skokie….
Wouldn’t you?
md
October 26th, 2011
1:38 pm
Armed liberal,
The point is, HD could not exist without the support of the consumers………all that other stuff is window dressing.
We the people (the consumers) dictate which corps survive and which do not…..yet folks here want to blame whoever they can except the ones with the actual power……………
Look in the mirror folks……..your wages are stagnant because of your own spending habits……….
Want it to change? Quit buying all that crap that gets imported………………..
USinUK
October 26th, 2011
1:39 pm
What GG said – 1:38
rights is rights.
USinUK
October 26th, 2011
1:40 pm
heck, I even support Rush’s right to yell Theater in a crowded fireplace
Kamchak
October 26th, 2011
1:41 pm
If it were the Klan camping out down in the park, would all you OWS sympathizers still be preaching their “right” to be there?”
If unicorns crapped skittles, would Mars go out of business?
md
October 26th, 2011
1:42 pm
“ohsweetjeebus, would you people PLEASE learn the meaning of the word “socialist” and “socialism” before you go throwing it around???”
Right after you learn the meaning of socialist…IC………………….
Words do have meaning…….learn them.
F. Sinkwich
October 26th, 2011
1:43 pm
Feeling a bit down today? We can always count on Barry to cheer us up:
” At a San Francisco fundraiser yesterday, the President had this to say: “We have lost our ambition, our imagination, and our willingness to do the things that built the Golden Gate bridge.”
President Malaise.
ty webb
October 26th, 2011
1:44 pm
UsinUK,
ummm, again the illness itself doesn’t bankrupt anyone, the expense of medicine or teatment does…someones ability to pay for the medicine or treatment of the illness is directly related to choices regarding education, career, and financial planning which that person either chose to make or chose not to make at some point in their life.
and if after the death of a spouse, or a spouse leaving, a person cannot survive economically, that too can be traced to choices he or she made(or not) at one point during their life.
USinUK
October 26th, 2011
1:44 pm
md – “Right after you learn the meaning of socialist…”
what is that – the corollary to “I know you are but what am I?”"
truly, your powers of rhetoric are astounding.
Gordon
October 26th, 2011
1:45 pm
Granny,
Well I stand corrected. The link I found was old. However what I am reading on HP does not give many details. I am impressed with the Medicare cuts, but let’s see what the assumptions are and other details.
Sadly, even these numbers are woefully inadequate. We’re still talking about less than a fourth of the deficit. But I’ll give the Democrats credit at this point for attacking the real problem.
Granny Godzilla
October 26th, 2011
1:45 pm
In fact…
ANYBODY HERE got a problem with the KKK (icky poo) excersizing their
first amendment rights?
Anybody?
USinUK
October 26th, 2011
1:46 pm
“ummm, again the illness itself doesn’t bankrupt anyone, the expense of medicine or teatment does…someones ability to pay for the medicine or treatment of the illness is directly related to choices regarding education, career, and financial planning which that person either chose to make or chose not to make at some point in their life.”
yeah – because insurance ALWAYS pays – and they pay for EVERYthing – particularly long-term illnesses.
“and if after the death of a spouse, or a spouse leaving, a person cannot survive economically, that too can be traced to choices he or she made(or not) at one point during their life.”
bollocks – I guess that’s why nearly ALL women following a divorce are worse off than their husbands – because they ALL made bad choices.
USinUK
October 26th, 2011
1:46 pm
and with that, I’m Audi
Bosch
October 26th, 2011
1:46 pm
“would all you OWS sympathizers still be preaching their “right” to be there?”
Yeap, sure would.
md
October 26th, 2011
1:47 pm
usuk……it’s a word that has actual meaning……..look it up and learn something.
You may also look at “capitalistic” while you are at it and maybe you will see the difference…….
SS, Medicare, Medicaid, etc are examples of “socialistic” programs………
Granny Godzilla
October 26th, 2011
1:48 pm
ty webb
how should the families who had members in the WTC have planned financially for that particular event?
Bosch
October 26th, 2011
1:49 pm
“They had an innovative idea, which most of us do not. They took risk, which most of us do not. They worked harder and longer than most of us do. You have the same opportunity they did”
They also had the money to do it, and they also would not have gotten anywhere without the consumers to buy their stuff.
Corporations do not happen without people to buy their stuff.
Geez, you people can be rather obtuse sometimes.
Guy Incognito
October 26th, 2011
1:50 pm
Kam
“If unicorns crapped skittles, would Mars go out of business?”
That’s funny, I don’t care who you are…and I’m stealing it.
Jim163
October 26th, 2011
1:53 pm
Armed, CBO reported that anyone who made more than $343,927 made it to the coveted 1%. So if Home Depot employees exercised their options and made more than that, I consider them to be a member of the 1%.
md
October 26th, 2011
1:53 pm
“how should the families who had members in the WTC have planned financially for that particular event?”
Life insurance?
Jm
October 26th, 2011
1:53 pm
Democrats are crazy
The hill reports they are trying to put stimulus in the deficit reduction package
What?!?!!!!?!
Democrats ate cluuuuuueless and look ridiculous
Jm
October 26th, 2011
1:54 pm
Putting stimulus and tax increases in the deficit reduction plan
That is just not going to fly with republicans
ty webb
October 26th, 2011
1:55 pm
UsinUk,
I never said anything about insurace. but yes buying it or not is a choice…one could also pay out of pocket for healthcare. If they can’t afford that, then yes, that too can be attributed to choices that person made in life.
and as for divorce…that’s a choice too, and it’s the best choice in many case.
Gordon
October 26th, 2011
1:56 pm
“They also had the money to do it, and they also would not have gotten anywhere without the consumers to buy their stuff.
Corporations do not happen without people to buy their stuff.
Geez, you people can be rather obtuse sometimes.”
They didn’t just “have” the money to build HD, they found investors who liked their idea. Ever heard of venture capital? And they have customers because they were smart enough to produce a service that people wanted. And you’re calling me obtuse?
Kamchak
October 26th, 2011
1:56 pm
That is just not going to fly with republicans
What a naif.
Nothing the Democrats ever do will fly with Republicans.
Armed Liberal
October 26th, 2011
1:56 pm
md
October 26th, 2011
1:38 pm
Agreed to a degree.
The simple fact is the creation of any business relies on what we have created as a country through taxing ourselves and providing education etc…
To say that HD or any business is created by the work of the company founders is too simple and mostly a lie. Their ideas only come to fruition because of the work done by government.
Consumer spending is the scorecard, reflected in P&Ls and balance sheets and all that jazz. If HD is better in the eyes of the consumer, it’ll thrive. (Based on my trip there this weekend, they’re slowly dieing though)
Chuck W
October 26th, 2011
1:58 pm
I love how so many people here are claiming that the poor are being taxed more today. My cousin who works part time at Walmart, don’t feel bad she cleans houses for money under the table, and last year she had around $1100 withheld from her check for federal tax. Somehow when she got her welfare um,um…er I mean “Tax Rebate” she got over $2900.00 dollars back. She got $1800.00 more back than she put in, someone please explain to me how that is a tax increase. Of course she did the responsible thing with the money, she bought a 52″ Flat Screen television and a blue ray player, then the next month she borrowed money from my mother to pay her rent and buy food for her kids. I grew up in government apartments and I knew a lot of people that were “poor”, they always seemed to have their beer, Jim Beam, and weed though. Quite a few of “poor” people don’t have economic problems they have behavior problems.
Bosch
October 26th, 2011
1:59 pm
“Ever heard of venture capital?”
Yes, Gordon, like I wrote, they had the money to do it. Your average Joe can’t just go out and whip up an armload of investors. And yes, I am calling you obtuse.
Halftrack
October 26th, 2011
1:59 pm
Jay, Why do you trust the CBO – - – it always supports the party in power. Get a second opinion. Why not try the Heritage Foundation for that. What % of earned money should people be able to keep? 50% of people pay no Federal Income Taxes already.
Aquagirl
October 26th, 2011
2:00 pm
Look in the mirror folks……..your wages are stagnant because of your own spending habits.
Sure, people will generally buy what’s cheaper and more convenient. But how do Home Depot and other big boxes do this. Brilliant, innovative thinking? HAHAHAHA!
Who do you think will benefit more from the welfare proj—-excuse me, the Savannah Harbor deepening, Fred’s Hardware or Home Depot?
Do you think benefits more from loosening restrictions on the trucking industry? Fred’s Hardware or Home Depot?
Who do you think can influence local politicians to re-zone an area for their benefit, Fred’s Hardware or Home Depot?
Home Depot offers lower prices because they can buy in bulk, which requires a large taxpayer supported infrastructure (if you think those trucks pay for themselves you’re smoking crack) and the ability to re-zone areas for their huge stores. (Local residents deal with the extra traffic produced by concentrating sales in one place.)
Home Depot has enormous advantages over the little guy because of your TAX DOLLARS.
If you didn’t read the story on the Atlanta Bread Company meltdown yesterday, it really sums this up. The owners of the company are back to making money hand over fist. The small business owners who owned the franchises aren’t. BTW, those people took out SBA loans which have not been repaid, so you’re getting screwed too.
Meanwhile, the “deserving” slime at the top are laughing all the way to the bank. (Which was also probably bailed out by taxpayers.)
Keep bowing to your masters. The rest of us realize our legs aren’t wet because it’s raining.
Bosch
October 26th, 2011
2:00 pm
“My cousin who works part time at Walmart,”
AAAANNNNDDDDD I stop reading. Another example of anecdotal evidence that means absolutely nothing to me.
Kamchak
October 26th, 2011
2:00 pm
Why not try the Heritage Foundation for that.
There’s your sign.
md
October 26th, 2011
2:00 pm
“The simple fact is the creation of any business relies on what we have created as a country through taxing ourselves and providing education etc…”
Don’t necessarily agree…….plenty of businesses operate in countries that have crappy roads and crappy education…….it’s still about the consumers………….
Paul
October 26th, 2011
2:01 pm
A chart even a conservative Republican can love.
But not like.
As witnessed by all the deflection comments.
getalife “At what point will you cons oppose helping the 1 %?”
When they receive more in benefits and pay less in taxes than the lowest 1%.
Bosch
October 26th, 2011
2:01 pm
“Why not try the Heritage Foundation for that.”
OMG, I just threw up in my mouth a little.
Paul
October 26th, 2011
2:01 pm
Make that “A chart even a conservative Republican can UNDERSTAND.”
Gordon
October 26th, 2011
2:02 pm
We all know there are people who are poor primarily because of bad choices and others who are poor because of some unforseen circumstance like an accident, illness, or the like. The problem is that we treat both situations the same. We see someone who is poor and stop asking questions. Sometimes lack of resources is the problem, and sometimes it is a symptom of a larger problem.
It would be interesting to really delve down and find out why adults who are poor are in that condition. Is it 50/50? 80/20 in favor of bad decisions? 80/20 in favor of bad luck? What do you think?
stands for decibels
October 26th, 2011
2:02 pm
Jeez, I walk away for a coupla hours and it turns into the Persnull Sponsubility wankfest.
Back when it doesn’t stink so bad in here.
Armed Liberal
October 26th, 2011
2:02 pm
Jim163
October 26th, 2011
1:53
I see you are perhaps new to the world of stock options.
In your world are they recurring payouts? Can one cash them in year after year?
I ask because in my world they are one time opportunities. They inflate earnings in the FY you monetize them.
The 1% does not refer to wealth, it refers to income.
Paul
October 26th, 2011
2:03 pm
Bosch
Between reading Jay’s chart and sucking Coke up your nose and throwing up at the comments, you’re having a rough time with this thread, aren’t you?
Bosch
October 26th, 2011
2:03 pm
Gordon,
Who cares? In a capitalistic society, there will always be poor people.
It is NOT your job to judge them.
Kamchak
October 26th, 2011
2:03 pm
We all know…
Geez…not this crap again.
USMC
October 26th, 2011
2:04 pm
“I’m a flat-tax girl, myself –flat tax, no deductions. look it up, that’s what I’ve always advocated”–USinUK
So where do we disagree, USinUK???
My first “snarky” comment was against the current tax code and the ridiculous fact that mostly Liberals argue against a FLAT or FAIR Tax; as though the current Tax code makes ANY sense.
So, I am for a Flat tax or Fair tax…. No Corporate Overlords
Cheerio!
md
October 26th, 2011
2:04 pm
Who do you think will benefit more from the welfare proj—-excuse me, the Savannah Harbor deepening, Fred’s Hardware or Home Depot?
Again, depends on the consumer……..folks don’t buy from HD, they won’t be shipping squat……..
Do you think benefits more from loosening restrictions on the trucking industry? Fred’s Hardware or Home Depot?
Fred’s Hardware if the folks choose them over HD……..
Who do you think can influence local politicians to re-zone an area for their benefit, Fred’s Hardware or Home Depot?
Should be neither, but folks also control who they send to DC to take those bribes…….
Armed Liberal
October 26th, 2011
2:04 pm
md
October 26th, 2011
2:00 pm
we’ll have to agree to disagree
That Black guy
October 26th, 2011
2:05 pm
October 26th, 2011
11:13 am
Jm – “How about we just dial back loopholes and reduce entitlements for the wealthiest rather than raising rates?”
Aaaaannddd….Come on, say it with me. Allow the OBAMA tax cuts to expire across the board for EVERYBODY.
Fixed that for ya.
Bosch
October 26th, 2011
2:06 pm
Paul,
Yes, I am always in awe of the arrogance of people who sit there and sanctimoniously judge other people.
Those are usually the same people who will quote you a Bible verse or two, but then will turn around with their hypocritical selves and forget that the very foundation of their belief system is that all men are valued and deemed worthy of redemption and grace.
USMC
October 26th, 2011
2:07 pm
LOL! What a bunch of Hypocrites!
At ‘Occupy Wall Street,’ Capitalism Is Alive and Well
http://www.cnbc.com/id/45047264
And I bet most of these OWS “sick, lame and lazies” have an IPHONE… you know that gadget from that BIG CORPORATION, Apple???
Butch Cassidy
October 26th, 2011
2:08 pm
ty webb – “ummm, again the illness itself doesn’t bankrupt anyone, the expense of medicine or teatment does…someones ability to pay for the medicine or treatment of the illness is directly related to choices regarding education, career, and financial planning which that person either chose to make or chose not to make at some point in their life.
and if after the death of a spouse, or a spouse leaving, a person cannot survive economically, that too can be traced to choices he or she made(or not) at one point during their life.”
Okay genius lets use a real world example like Enron . The employes work hard for a supposedly “successful” company, and check their shares worth 1.5 million on Monday, and by Friday those same shares are worth 100 dollars due to the malfeasence of the Executives and their accounting procedures. (Hence the need for Sarbanes-Oxley). The employees are prohibited ftom dumping their shares while at the same time Ken Lay is singing the companies praises and unloading his shares as fast as possible. So the executives make millions, and the employees including those at Arthur Anderson lose EVERYTHING when the operation implodes. According to your logic, these employees just made bad choices?
USMC
October 26th, 2011
2:08 pm
“That Black guy”
HUH! That sounds R@cist!
Paul
October 26th, 2011
2:09 pm
Bosch
God does the forgiveness thing.
They do the judging thing.
’cause they know the Truth -
md
October 26th, 2011
2:09 pm
“Home Depot offers lower prices because they can buy in bulk”
So?
Folks don’t have to buy based on price…….but if one does, don’t point the finger at others when the consequences come home to roost……………..
Salaries have been stagnant because we the people have been focused on price for decades………not worrying about the ramifications of our purchases…….
Do you actually think jobs would be going overseas if folks didn’t buy the products being shipped back??
Hell no…………
That Black guy
October 26th, 2011
2:10 pm
Jay, the only problem with your graph is the use of the word “GIVE”. How do you GIVE some one something that is already theirs?
That’s like a carjacker deciding not to rob me of my car. Did he “GIVE” me the car?
Normal
October 26th, 2011
2:10 pm
Good Old John McCain, Republican Navy Veteran and Patriot looking after his own…
“In the mix is a radical proposal from Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., that would have potentially far-reaching effects on the health care of retirees and active-duty family members. McCain, ranking Republican on the Senate Armed Services Committee, has proposed barring military retirees from signing up for Tricare Prime, the least expensive Tricare option available to them.”
http://www.navytimes.com/news/2011/10/military-mccain-eyes-barring-retirees-from-tricare-prime-102511/
Guy Incognito
October 26th, 2011
2:10 pm
“I just threw up in my mouth a little”
Why do we have taste receptors in our throats? If we didn’t, then the half-puke wouldn’t be so bad.
And with that, I’m gone.
Chuck W
October 26th, 2011
2:10 pm
If you use the armed force of the government and take all the wealth in this country into one pot and “equally” distribute it out to everyone, which is the Democratic Parties dream. In 5 years most of the the people that were rich before will be rich again and most of the poor people will be poor again. I know what I am about to say is “anecdotal evidence” but I grew up very poor and it took a lot of years for me to learn how not to be poor. Most of you people that are screaming about the rich and the poor, have never been either one so you need your charts and graphs to understand the situation, I have been both so I do not need them.
Paul
October 26th, 2011
2:11 pm
USMC
“LOL! What a bunch of Hypocrites!
At ‘Occupy Wall Street,’ Capitalism Is Alive and Well”
What part of “Big banks and investment house leaders made bad decisions, taxpayers save their companies, those same taxpayers lost their jobs and homes because of those leaders’ bad decisions, the leaders gave themselves millions in bonuses, none of them bore responsibility for their actions’
don’t you understand?
Paul
October 26th, 2011
2:13 pm
Bosch
“If you use the armed force of the government and take all the wealth in this country into one pot and “equally” distribute it out to everyone, which is the Democratic Parties dream”
the ignorance, it never ends -
Zedd
October 26th, 2011
2:13 pm
Wow, just wow. Perry’s plan only comes out this week, and yet some how Jay has managed to analyze his plan and all the others, master their plans, label them, stamp then, and declare victory while dancing around the fire like a wild Indian. And you got your master’s in economics from where? Or was it a master’s in accounting? And you’ve worked in those fields for how long? Typical lame stream media now days. So quick to paint with those broad brushes, label it, and spin it.
Paulo977
October 26th, 2011
2:14 pm
Am Vet :The American giant has finally been awakened.
And the self-destructive wimps will not be able to stop it!!!!
It’s the way of things …they start out small and soon assume huge proportions …. reason for the exploiters to be scared…
Though only a whisper now, who knows where it is headed!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69tpM3krG3A&feature=related
md
October 26th, 2011
2:14 pm
“What part of “Big banks and investment house leaders made bad decisions, taxpayers save their companies, those same taxpayers lost their jobs and homes because of those leaders’ bad decisions, the leaders gave themselves millions in bonuses, none of them bore responsibility for their actions’
don’t you understand?”
The part about the gov’t giving them our money with zero conditions…………….even banks know not to lend to risky businesses with out some kind of conditions……..Us (gov’t)….not so much.
Bosch
October 26th, 2011
2:14 pm
Paul,
I think they got that backwards!
Kamchak
October 26th, 2011
2:15 pm
Typical lame stream media now days. So quick to paint with those broad brushes, label it, and spin it.
Too funny!
Glass house, meet stone.
Bosch
October 26th, 2011
2:15 pm
Paul,
“the ignorance, it never ends -”
Yes, and the stoopid also burns, have ya’ heard??
Generation$crewed
October 26th, 2011
2:15 pm
Bosch
October 26th, 2011
2:03 pm
Nor is it your job to judge the rich.
Some did work harder than others, some were smarter than others, some were willing to take more risk than others, some came from absolutely nothing, and some were born with the silver spoon, and others cheated, or did immoral things to get their money.
Jim163
October 26th, 2011
2:18 pm
The 1% does not refer to wealth, it refers to income.
Glad to see that Buffett doesn’t belong to that group because he only accepts an income of $100k. You guys should also quit talking about how he pays less in taxes then his secretary because that is taxes on his wealth not income.
md
October 26th, 2011
2:18 pm
“Nor is it your job to judge the rich.”
But, but, but…..they have it…..so that is the only variable in the equation………….
Bosch
October 26th, 2011
2:18 pm
GS,
“Nor is it your job to judge the rich.”
Whose doing that? Did you stretch before making that leap? Wouldn’t want you to pull a hamstring.
The operative word in your argument, “some” and it can just as easily be countered with “some” did not.
Gordon
October 26th, 2011
2:18 pm
Bosch,
In a society where the poor are supported with other people’s money, it is fair to ask why they are poor, what solutions are appropriate based on the answer to that question, and what can be done to prevent it. If that is “judging” in your eyes then so be it.
Adam
October 26th, 2011
2:19 pm
RB: A single mom without the education to support 3 kids should not be having 3 kids. Choices have consequences and those consequences are not the responsibility of the federal government to bear at the expense of 53% of taxpayers.
Bad choice no. 1 – not having the education needed to support your 3 kids.
Bad choice no. 2 – Having 3 kids you can’t take care of.
In liberal lala land, is anybody ever responsible for their actions?
So, RB, how would the conservative land legislate consequences for bad choices? Since that is obviously where you’re heading with this. The person made bad choices, therefore, they should work hard for the rest of their lives and never get a second chance at having a good life for themselves and their kids.
Seriously though, how would you change things in government so that this person could have had the education you judgmentally say she needs? How would you legislate her not having 3 kids? I’m sure making abortion illegal would work WONDERS towards making people have LESS kids.
md
October 26th, 2011
2:19 pm
“You guys should also quit talking about how he pays less in taxes then his secretary because that is taxes on his wealth not income.”
Can’t have the warfare without misleading the masses……….it is prudent to a sound warfare policy…..
Zedd
October 26th, 2011
2:20 pm
“Glass house, meet stone”…..Stone thrower meet 12 gauge Remington shot gun with custom loaded rock salt rounds for deviants. Oooh, that’s gotta sting!
Libertarian
October 26th, 2011
2:21 pm
Bosch
“The 1% of the people who own the wealth in this country did not get it simply because they worked harder than anyone else.”
That sounds a little like judgement to me Bosch. You’re doing exactly what you’re saying others should not do with regard to the poor. Painting with a very broad brush and using no facts to back up your statements.
Adam
October 26th, 2011
2:22 pm
Guy Incognito: do not have anymore kids! Or is that to hard to grasp? As far as I know, PP will GIVE you birth control
Nah, they can’t afford that since 93% of what they do is abortions
Of course, you could LEGISLATE that every woman who is on welfare have a forced procedure that makes them infertile. Forever. After all, none of THOSE PEOPLE deserve a second chance anyway….
Aquagirl
October 26th, 2011
2:22 pm
Folks don’t have to buy based on price…….
No disagreement there, md…but what in the h3ll does that have to do with the idea that Nardelli “deserves” a fat paycheck for outstanding brilliance? Unless you think manipulating the system for welfare is the sort of brilliance we should admire and reward in our country. The cousin upthread with the 52 inch TV is a genius, we need more of that to jump start our economy?
Uh-uh, you are squirming like a worm on a hot sidewalk trying to defend people who’ve ripped you off. If you’re embarrassed you got fooled by these robber barons, man up and say so. Take your medicine. But stop weaseling around with any distraction that pops into your head. Maybe that works at your Tea Parties, folks here are smarter than that and we aren’t biting.
Paul
October 26th, 2011
2:23 pm
Bosch
“Yes, and the stoopid also burns, have ya’ heard??”
Yes, I have. It’s what led to the ignorance comment.
Zedd
It isn’t difficult to do even a cursory analysis.
You can keep the current rates for income tax or opt for the 20 percent plan. The only people who will opt are people who will save money. Those are the people at the upper end of the income scale. Therefore, revenue decreases and the deficit increases.
Perry himself said a family making above the average would not pay taxes. This will increase the number of households who pay no income tax.
It’s kinda simple, yes?
Or, as Jm pointed out this morning, you can go to the National Review’s website and read their analysis of Perry’s plan. Which they said… will lower revenue, increase the deficit and not affect spending.
Bosch
October 26th, 2011
2:23 pm
Sure Gordon, those are fair questions to ask, but it is rather obtuse to believe that it is just a lack of personal responsibility to explain why a person is in the situation they are in.
And as Adam just pointed out, everyone makes bad choices, it’s human nature, but we do not have the same support system and resources in place to bounce back from those bad choices. You are judging others by pretending you too have never made a mistake and holding them to a different standard.
jm
October 26th, 2011
2:24 pm
OMG Dems are retards. Several have said they hope the deficit super committee fails. Meaning they hope America fails.
Vote R 2012.
Paul
October 26th, 2011
2:25 pm
Jim163
“You guys should also quit talking about how he pays less in taxes then his secretary because that is taxes on his wealth not income.”
You may want to double check your source for that.
I think you’ll find Buffet said if you look at his income and his secretary’s income, he pays a lower percentage of his income in taxes than does his secretary.
Adam
October 26th, 2011
2:26 pm
ty webb: Everyone is where they are in life due to choices they have made at one point or another.
Including, but not limited to:
-Economic and social position of the parents at birth (you CHOSE your parents, didn’t you?)
-Economic and social situation in the area in which the person lives as a child (You CHOSE where to live, didn’t you?)
-Quality of schooling as a child (You CHOSE those teachers, didn’t you?)
etc etc. It’s all abut CHOICES, don’t you see? The choices YOU made are the only ones affecting your life!
Scooter
October 26th, 2011
2:27 pm
Wow, an info-graphic developed from a op-ed writer’s interpretation of statistical data. What would Mark Twain have said?
Gordon
October 26th, 2011
2:27 pm
Bosch,
Why don’t you go back and read my post? No one who did could possibly say that it said anything like “just a lack of personal responsibility explains why a person is in the situation they are in”. The point was that there are different reasons, yet we treat all situations the same.
I think maybe you have fallen into the habit of reading the first line of a post and then making assumptions.
Bosch
October 26th, 2011
2:27 pm
“That sounds a little like judgement to me Bosch”
Nope, wrong. That’s not a judgement, or better yet, an opinion, it’s called common sense. Everyone in that income bracket did not get that way simply because they put in more physical labor or hours than the rest of us.
To argue that point exclusively is simply wrong.
md
October 26th, 2011
2:28 pm
“No disagreement there, md…but what in the h3ll does that have to do with the idea that Nardelli “deserves” a fat paycheck for outstanding brilliance? ”
Would Nardelli have any money to get a big fat paycheck if consumers didn’t buy the products from HD?
Once again, the consumers dictate the outcome……not the other way around.
Shoot, anyone can incorporate for next to nothing these days………think they can write themselves a big fat check without consumers?
And shareholders can so no to folks like Nardelli as well…….just sell their stock.
These folks can only control us if we allow them to……..don’t like it, organize against the products…….not the system………the products dictate the outcome.
Paul
October 26th, 2011
2:28 pm
md
“The part about the gov’t giving them our money with zero conditions…………….even banks know not to lend to risky businesses with out some kind of conditions……..Us (gov’t)….not so much.”
I forgot to add, many of the protestors saw their retirement savings halved or wiped out because the financial house leaders made bad decisions, suffered no repercussions and rewarded themselves with millions in bonuses.
But the sound bit repeaters never want to acknowledge that.
pat
October 26th, 2011
2:28 pm
So, this antiquated dinosaur inefficient, horrendously costly to run, unfair, and horrendously complicated system implemented in early 20th century is the best case scenario?
That’s it we’ve peeked, we can’t do better?
Next you’re going to try to convince me that obama’s policies actually worked and the apparent failure of everything is just a GOP mirage.
Every proposal on the table right now is better than what we have. Only a complete unadulterated idiot would think the current system is in any way good. That or you’re a CPA. I can understand why they like it.
Adam
October 26th, 2011
2:29 pm
Scout: So don’t whine to me about women and “control of their bodies” until draft registration also includes women
Don’t whine to me about the draft including women until a man also has a uterus.
The argument makes about as much sense as yours.
Armed Liberal
October 26th, 2011
2:30 pm
Jim163
October 26th, 2011
2:18 pm
You are being disengenuous.
That 100K is salary. If you believe that is his income, you aren’t worth the back and forth.
Gordon
October 26th, 2011
2:30 pm
“Everyone in that income bracket did not get that way simply because they put in more physical labor or hours than the rest of us. ”
In other words, people are rich for different reasons. Which is EXACTLY what I said about the poor and then get accused of judging them.
Bosch
October 26th, 2011
2:31 pm
Gordon,
I’m talking about the general consensus of the wingnuts here who make that argument. Who doesn’t believe someone should be personally responsible?
And Libertarian,
Don’t you sit there and lecture me about painting with broad brushes when you see post after post of wingnuts carry on about how liberals think or assuming what they believe.
md
October 26th, 2011
2:31 pm
“-Economic and social position of the parents at birth (you CHOSE your parents, didn’t you?)
-Economic and social situation in the area in which the person lives as a child (You CHOSE where to live, didn’t you?)
-Quality of schooling as a child (You CHOSE those teachers, didn’t you?)”
By law, children are wards of the parent/guardian up to certain ages…..so yes, choice is there….the choice of the one in charge……after that, the new child/adult takes over……but there is also a period of overlapping choice……..