So, how’s that fancy toll-lane project working for you?
The public’s frustration and outrage over the state-imposed HOT lanes on I-85 has been entirely predictable. So too has been the state’s mishandling of the issue.
Georgia’s transportation leadership has long treated voters more as sheep to be manipulated than as customers to be heeded. Roads, for example, have traditionally gone not where they were needed, but where they would do politicians the most good. And that high-handed approach has been particularly noticeable when it comes to toll-road policy.
The history is familiar: Back when the decision was made to build Georgia 400 as a toll road, angry citizens were bought off with the pledge that tolls would end once the bonds were retired. Yet when the time came, that high-profile promise was broken. The State Road and Tollway Authority — a body chaired by the governor, and under the governor’s total control — simply voted it out of existence.
Then there’s the time a few years ago when, with very little fanfare, the state Department of Transportation decided it would toll Georgia 316 between Atlanta and Athens. State officials were forced to back down at the last minute, assuaging public anger by promising to never again try to convert existing highway lanes to toll lanes.
Once the outrage died away, that promise too was quietly abandoned, and soon state officials were looking to tolls as the answer to every challenge. The fabled Outer Perimeter was at one point going to be built as a toll road, justified by economic and traffic estimates that were wildly unrealistic. Truck-only toll lanes were proposed, until the trucking industry made it clear it would fight the idea. Tolls were even proposed as a way to fund a ludicrous system of tunnels beneath downtown Atlanta that would have made Boston’s Big Dig look like child’s play.
How have we come to this sad state of affairs? I’d propose a combination of three main factors:
1. State leadership faced a huge unmet need for transportation investment in Georgia but felt trapped by its own anti-tax rhetoric. Tolls seemed to offer a quiet way out of that predicament.
2. Nationwide, tolls became an intellectual fad among transportation planners fascinated by their potential not only to finance infrastructure and generate revenue, but also to socially engineer commuting behavior. The notion that people might balk at being socially engineered in such a fashion wasn’t given much consideration.
3. A concerted push among vendors — from bond attorneys, salesmen and financiers to toll-technology companies to good old-fashioned paving companies — who saw the toll fad as a new way to make big profits, often at the expense of unsophisticated state transportation departments. Those vendors also contributed financially to “think tanks” and other groups giving the toll industry its veneer of intellectual credibility.
So what we do now? State officials are playing for time, hoping that anger will recede and that motorists will come to accept their fate. But I’m not sure that’s going to work.
On Monday night, state Sen. Renee Unterman hosted a public meeting in Dacula so that citizens could talk to transportation officials about the toll project, but by all accounts it did not go well. State officials have also pleaded to Washington for help, requesting a waiver to at least let two-passenger carpools return to the HOT lanes.
However, it’s hard to blame Washington for creating this mess. When Transportation Secretary Ray Lahood visited Atlanta two years ago, he publicly questioned the wisdom of adding tolls to existing interstate lanes, suggesting that Georgia voters might not be too pleased by such a step. State officials went ahead with the plan anyway.
You also have to wonder how private companies bidding for the right to build new HOT lanes along I-75 and I-575 are reacting to the reception the idea has gotten so far. (A $16 billion, 285-mile network of such lanes is proposed for metro Atlanta).
The fares needed to make those projects pencil out will be considerably higher than those on I-85, and so far, the public’s not buying it.
– Jay Bookman
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304 comments Add your comment
Normal
October 26th, 2011
8:09 am
The public is not as dumb as they think…the revolution is coming…
Keep Up the Good Fight!
October 26th, 2011
8:11 am
What? Another Republican failure? Why they’ll never admit it…..
Mr Sunshine
October 26th, 2011
8:16 am
I will sit in traffic for hours before paying toll on a road Ive already paid for. GOVT, KISS MY @$$.
Joe The Plumber too.
October 26th, 2011
8:18 am
@keep: What? obama? Another democrat failure? Why they’ll never admit it……(fixed it for you).
Thomas
October 26th, 2011
8:21 am
Jay- you may want to look at Jannine Miller and her patents.
Jay
October 26th, 2011
8:22 am
Fourth comment in, the first attempted “but but but …. Obama!” deflection.
You people just don’t comprehend how your paranoia is being used against you, do you?
Keep Up the Good Fight!
October 26th, 2011
8:22 am
Told you!
Granny Godzilla
October 26th, 2011
8:24 am
Mr Sunshine
October 26th, 2011
8:16 am
I will sit in traffic for hours before paying toll on a road Ive already paid for. GOVT, KISS MY @$$.
Damn Straight!
Jay
October 26th, 2011
8:26 am
Thomas, I am aware of that issue.
Guy Incognito
October 26th, 2011
8:28 am
Never supported this project. Refuse to use it to get up to GwinCo. Google maps can find you ways around this voluntary tax
MountainMan
October 26th, 2011
8:29 am
This is not a new phenomenon created by republicans. Georgia highway construction has been corrupt for years. When I-16 was being built in the 70’s, for years it ended in Soperton where Jim Gillis, the highway commissioner lived, so he could get to Atlanta quickly. .
Common Sense
October 26th, 2011
8:30 am
About the same as that fancy rail project called MARTA.
And for those of you that “think” you have already paid for that road, you haven’t.
It was constructed, but it has NOT been paid for. So get over yourself.
Fly-On-The-Wall
October 26th, 2011
8:30 am
I’m not sure we have the leadership anywhere in this state to make the decisions we need to resolve our transportation issues. We have been backed into a corner with no sane way out.
godless heathen
October 26th, 2011
8:31 am
What a crappy idea it is to charge the people who use something for it. Much better to get someone else to pay for it.
JohnnyReb
October 26th, 2011
8:33 am
I seldom venture into HOT lane territory, but side with those not so happy. I’m still pi$$ed about not being able to use the HOV exits. There’s another stupid decision by transportation planners.
Jay
October 26th, 2011
8:35 am
How many times must it be paid for, Godless? We already did it once.
In fact, the revenue from this toll lane won’t even be enough to pay for the equipment needed to convert it into a toll lane. The taxpayers are paying an additional sum for the right to be priced out of their own already-paid-for infrastructure.
It’s just a beautiful thing, isn’t it?
Joe The Plumber too.
October 26th, 2011
8:35 am
aww, c’mon jay, I couldn’t resist. Your teacher pets do the same thing, it’s all in good fun. No paranioa here, I am pretty sure barry is a one and out kind of guy. I am surprised you didn’t start the day off with a quip about the little children at the park getting sent home & or arrested last night.
AmVet
October 26th, 2011
8:35 am
Plumber is beyond obsessed with this president. (It makes him feel better for having voted for you know who, twice.)
To the point where he doesn’t even care how ridiculous his absurdly off-base and substance-free claptrap – that now shows up on every thread – appears to others.
The epitome of Obama Derangement Syndrome.
…wildly unrealistic…
The very definition of right-wing governance today.
It can be safely said, that after a couple of decades now, the Republican experiment in Georgia has been a disaster.
Corruption, fraud and malfeasance are all still HUGE problems in the Peach State.
Paid off incompetence – as evidenced by this HOTlane lunacy – and cronyism amongst criminals at the highest levels of state government rule the day.
And the fiercely ignorant are fiercely proud of their “conservatives”.
As long as these men have R’s behind their names, they are pretty much untouchable. And they know it.
That’s how servile and compliant their base is…
Keep Up the Good Fight!
October 26th, 2011
8:37 am
I see the “get someone else to pay for it” card has been made a permanent addition to the deck of wingnut cards. Because of course suggesting that taxes be raised to cover these matters or to invest in infrastructure is getting everyone else to pay for it.
1811/0311
October 26th, 2011
8:39 am
Hey, it was trash pickup day in Woodruff Park !!
stephen
October 26th, 2011
8:39 am
Tolling roads is a license to steal and putting to bed tolls after the road is paid for is the oldest sucker pitch in road building. You will always pay more as compared to taxing. Same in Orlando. There increased tolls there are now being paid to cover for past waste and corruption in the toll road authority. If they get away with the I-85 hot lane, get ready for every road around Atlanta to be tollled. And annual increases will be routine.
Joe The Plumber too.
October 26th, 2011
8:42 am
amwet, if anybody has an obsession for urkle it would be you and your blog pals. All we read day after day is obama is good, obama is great….mindless worship for a false prophet. What would be your take on the state department spending 70K of our money on the messiahs book? Wasteful spending or is it ok since it was HIS book?
Common Sense
October 26th, 2011
8:42 am
Let’s be intellectually honest here. You have not paid for the road once. The dollars came from sources, both of which have deficits.
I bet you tell yourself you have paid for things you have purchased with plastic as well.
Doggone/GA
October 26th, 2011
8:43 am
I think the way to fight the toll lanes is more civil disobedience. EVERYONE should get in that lane. Clog it to the gills. They can’t arrest us all!
stephen
October 26th, 2011
8:44 am
And 1811/0311, enjoy your new reality brought to you by B of A, et al. At least those guys in Woodruff Park had the stones to speak back without a pseudonym in a dark room. I’ll stand by for your Obama rant.
TaxPayer
October 26th, 2011
8:46 am
Problem! What problem!
Sonny put the icing on the cake when he broke the promise on the Ga 400 toll even though I’m sure he has already convinced himself that he technically did not tell a lie.
Jay
October 26th, 2011
8:46 am
In the interest of the honesty you advocate, Common, the road lane HAS been paid for. It was built and financed years ago through the federal and state gasoline taxes.
Mick
October 26th, 2011
8:46 am
joe
So, you would have preferred maccain/palin? Think he would have got bin laden? Think we would have any kind of car industry left here in the US? You are nothing more than a greedy ideologue who thinks somehow that I got mine go get yours is the basis for a healthy country. You are definately in the right business because you are full of it….
Jm
October 26th, 2011
8:47 am
Works in Europe and you guys love Europe
So learn to love the toll lanes
carlosgvv
October 26th, 2011
8:47 am
The rich in America get the best Doctors, Dentists, Lawyers, Accountants, cars, homes etc. No reason why they shouldn’t get the best roads. It’s the American way. If you don’t believe it, just ask all the Republican candidates.
TaxPayer
October 26th, 2011
8:47 am
Hey, it was trash pickup day in Woodruff Park !!
I hope the trash collectors got the idiot toting the rifle too, Private.
Common Sense
October 26th, 2011
8:50 am
And there is no federal and state debts correct?
Once more, a little intellectual honesty is called for. Or are you going to say that the debts we hold are for everything but I-85 in Gwinnett County.
Dollars coming out of the Federal Budget are not already “paid for”. They are debts that will be collected from future tax payers.
But they certainly haven’t been paid for.
Armed Liberal
October 26th, 2011
8:50 am
This all stems from the GOP’s lack of intestinal fortitude.
They cannot say to their constituents that taxes need to be raised because of the newish GOP orthodoxy.
Basically, Georgia’s GOP leadership are a bunch of cowards.
It’s also important to realize that the part of the suburbs most affected by this is the most likely to turn to the Dems in the coming years.
Brad Steel
October 26th, 2011
8:50 am
The State Road and Tollway Authority — a body chaired by the governor, and under the governor’s total control — simply voted it out of existence.
Thank you for the lie, your highness,…. uh I mean governor.
Tolls were even proposed as a way to fund a ludicrous system of tunnels beneath downtown Atlanta that would have made Boston’s Big Dig look like child’s play.
We can count on state gov. for exceptional stupidity. May they should plan an underground Disney Land. It would keep us out of the Georgia heat and would help us compete with Orlando. You know Florida has no state taxes!
Those vendors also contributed financially to “think tanks” and other groups giving the toll industry its veneer of intellectual credibility.
What a waste of money. No need for fancy ideas to fool a bunch of saps who can cure all ills by cutting taxes.
stands for decibels
October 26th, 2011
8:51 am
They’ve done a horrendous job educating the public about the conditions under which they are permitted to ride in these lanes for free. I understand that one has to sign up for a Peach pass in order to register your vehicle thus, but good luck finding basic information about this on their website.
(it’s buried in their “set up a new account” page.)
Jm
October 26th, 2011
8:52 am
Gas taxes can’t pay for roads when we all drive electric cars silly
So tolls will be necessary
Get with the future and stop being the “party of no”
Progress is painful sometimes.
And the maddow-ites gripe we couldn’t build Hoover Dam today
Well you turkeys oppose everything including the method to pay for roads
So how do you think things get built? Free?
The liberal stupidity, ah it hurts
Joe The Plumber too.
October 26th, 2011
8:52 am
mick, bless your heart, but yes I got mine ( through hard work, saving and doing without many times) now why don’t you go get yours.
godless heathen
October 26th, 2011
8:52 am
When the lane needs repaving, the tolls will pay for that.
DannyX
October 26th, 2011
8:52 am
“The rich in America get the best Doctors, Dentists, Lawyers, Accountants, cars, homes etc.”
Exactly, now that they have their new toll lane it’s time to get to work on the new Falcons stadium.
Guy Incognito
October 26th, 2011
8:53 am
Scout
They renamed it, Troy Davis park. How insensitive of you
lynnie gal
October 26th, 2011
8:53 am
This whole toll fiasco amounts to Georgia govmt. foxes picking your pocket and then selling you back your own watch. The folks in our Georgia govmt have decided to charge you for your own roads, people. Obama had nothing to do with this. At a time in Georgia when unemployment is one of the highest in the country, ditto for foreclosures and bankruptcies, the move to force toll lanes on working people took a lot of nerve. But, the foxes counted on Georgia folk to blame Obama for it, like the do everything. P.S. There’s a reason the foxes want to cut education–expands their base.
Armed Liberal
October 26th, 2011
8:54 am
Jm is playing dumb today, right Jm?
You’re really not that ill informed are you?
Is is really that easy to intentionally mis-read everything and spew lies?
Jay
October 26th, 2011
8:55 am
Right, jm.
So of the billions of miles being driven annually on US roads, what percentage is being driven using all-electric vehicles?
0.000000000001 percent, maybe?
And that’s your justification for tolls.
Patrick
October 26th, 2011
8:55 am
Jay–How long do you think it will take for certain folks to be isued “complimentary” peach passes so they can use the toll lanes for free? I am thinking every two-bit politician, public official, football coach, etc. will be granted one because they are “special” and “need to use the toll way because they are so important that sitting in traffic is beneath them”.
Anyone want to bet this doesn’t happen?
Jm
October 26th, 2011
8:55 am
Jay 8:35 roads have to be repaved
Your welcome
Jay
October 26th, 2011
8:56 am
Sure that will happen, Patrick.
I see where the state is already suggesting that veterans get free use of the lane, you know, just to give that patriotic veneer.
larry
October 26th, 2011
8:57 am
Like i have said before, these toll lanes are like a quadruple tax being put on the public.
Your tax dollars first built I-85
Your tax dollars maintained I-85
Your tax dollars built the H.O.V lanes
Your tax dollars built the H.O.T lanes
And then they charge you a fee to use the highway your tax dollars have already paid for four times over. And they wonder why people are mad?
Jm
October 26th, 2011
8:58 am
Jay 8:55
Not in the future. Hey, don’t blame me. It’s the future you guys want, designed, and are getting.
Jay
October 26th, 2011
8:58 am
No, heathen. The project is not ever projected to break even, let alone raise revenue for maintenance.
md
October 26th, 2011
8:59 am
Just more justification for taking the “hotlane” out of town……..my definition of “quality of life” no longer includes 2-4 hours of seat time in the car. And those hours times 260 = approx 32 days of ones life………per year.
Have fun.
Jm
October 26th, 2011
8:59 am
Jay. FDOT is contemplating tolling the whole interstate system
It’s not radical. Calm down……
Patrick
October 26th, 2011
8:59 am
Wow–that didn’t take long!
Common Sense
October 26th, 2011
9:01 am
“The Recovery Act, which provided FHWA with $27.5 billion for highway infrastructure
investment, has helped jump-start our economy, save and create jobs, and put a down payment on
our infrastructure for the 21st century. With this funding, Federal, State and local transportation
organizations will continue to invest in projects to build, rehabilitate, and make safer roads,
highways, bridges and ports. In addition to State-based highway infrastructure projects, the
Recovery Act also provides funds for investments in Federal lands and capital expenditure projects
such as park roads and parkways and ferryboat construction.
States and other recipients of Recovery Act funding have met the ambitious deadlines in the
legislation intended to infuse funds swiftly into the economy. Of the $26.6 billion available to
States for highway projects through the Recovery Act, more than $23.5 billion has been obligated
for 10,833 projects nationwide – of which 7,047 projects are underway, with over 1,900 of those
projects substantially complete.”
Our grandchildren will be paying for these “paid for” highway construction projects.
When you believe you have paid for in full your highways, you are wrong. This is just one of many sources that go into federal highways.
Second, if you want to insist that the roads are paid for, then those who have paid the most should get preference. That only follows the logic you display.
That means that lower gas mileage vehicles, which have paid MORE taxes should get first crack at the faster lanes—for free. After all, they have MORE THAN PAID for it using your logic.
And those super efficient, high occupancy vehicles–isn’t it time you paid your “fair share”?
Don't Tread
October 26th, 2011
9:03 am
“Georgia’s transportation leadership has long treated voters more as sheep to be manipulated than as customers to be heeded”
The national, um, “leadership” is guilty of the same. But they’re Democrats, so I suppose that’s ok. Nobody was “heeding the customers” when they passed Obamacare and the bailouts, were they? (But thankfully, “the customers” paid you back with a historical a$$-whooping in November 2010.)
“The notion that people might balk at being socially engineered in such a fashion wasn’t given much consideration.”
But I guess when people balk at Democratic “social engineering”, they have no right to do so, and deserve to be denigrated by you and your liberal buddies in the alphabet media, right?
Jm
October 26th, 2011
9:03 am
Oh and jay. It’s not just electric cars. It’s hybrids and all the fuel efficiency being pushed by Obama.
If you’re mad about it, go blame Obama.
Frankly I’m for more efficiency and I recognize toll roads will be a byproduct.
But then again, I’m not a hypocrit.
AmVet
October 26th, 2011
9:03 am
All we read day after day is obama is good, obama is great
We?
We??
Who exactly do you speak for, besides yourself, plumber? Your pets? The undead? Ronald Reagan? (He’s still dead, isn’t he?)
Stand on your own two feet for once and quit trying to create your little imaginary army of fellow yes-men.
Or at least name those here in your *we*, so I can clear it with you before addressing them
You are in the final stages of permanent ODS. Because that is all that you allow yourself to see. It has become the very nexus of your focus. That is the extent to which he has power over you.
And I’ll take children with functioning spines and scrotums over you adult jellyfish (and wheyfaced ex-marines) any day of the week and twice on Wednesday.
State officials have also pleaded to Washington for help…
Do tell? More red state mooching off of the hated Uncle Sam?
Typical.
Though it looks like the would-be Occupy the HOTlane folks in Dacula and throughout the metro region are gonna try like hell to get this travesty undone.
Good on them…
Mick
October 26th, 2011
9:04 am
joe
The difference between you and me; I got mine and try to help others get theirs. No freebies here, hard work never fails. It’s your problem assuming that we want to prop up people that didn’t earn their way – wrong. However, why should those who have benefitted the most be asked to do the least? Boo-hoo…
TaxPayer
October 26th, 2011
9:05 am
Are the Republicans doing their part and utilizing the HOT lane or are they simply providing their usual meaningless bluster. In jm’s case, the answer is easy given he does not reside in the state.
Jm
October 26th, 2011
9:05 am
Jay. If you had advocated for eliminating or lowering fuel efficiency standards in conjunction with raising the gas tax to pay for roads, your arguments would bear a semblance to being consistent.
However, it wouldn’t change the ultimate outcome. Tolls will be necessary to pay for roads.
godless heathen
October 26th, 2011
9:06 am
Raise the toll, then.
Shawny
October 26th, 2011
9:07 am
The HOV lanes were fine just the way they were.
The new HOT lanes are nothing but a revenue generating scam. They do not incent good behavior, such as encouraging carpooling.
It would be interesting for someone to report on revenue being generated, both for tolls paid as well as fines.
larry
October 26th, 2011
9:07 am
Yep, blame Obama for decisions that Sonny and the Repub legislature made before he went into office.
oy.
Jm
October 26th, 2011
9:08 am
TaxP – true, well 90% of the time
But we have HOT lanes down here in FL and they’re great
Grasshopper
October 26th, 2011
9:08 am
You want to see a major highway ripoff?
Take US27 South from Columbus to the Florida state line. It is a beautiful 4-lane road now — you will be the only car on it.
Mick
October 26th, 2011
9:10 am
taxpayer
We have had a hot lane or toll lane down here on I-95 for over a year now. It’s optional, you don’t have to use it. We are over tolled with many other roads it’s a pain in the arse and they keep going up…
St Simons - we're on Island time
October 26th, 2011
9:11 am
Oh good, we weren’t sure. The mrs went up to the ol hometown last week for a medical meeting and called back and told me about this as she was driving thru gwinnett visiting friends. We were outraged, too, along with our friends, – glad everyone else (with a conscience) is also too.
Chill out, man. Look at it this way. Every dumb thing they do, every “let em eat cake” move they make, every stupid stunt the Georgia Republicans pull, brings their extinction a day closer.
Come to de Island, mon. We don’t say “let them eat cake.”
And the speed limit is 25.
jt
October 26th, 2011
9:12 am
I don’t know what the big deal is.
If Americans weren’t so wussyish,metro/federo-sexed and cowled down, more would do what I do.
.
I have ran the HOV lanes three times so far without paying.
.
When the police (tax-collectors) come up behind me, they see my Ron Paul sticker…they then just fade away.
.
Grow some…Sheople.
Peter
October 26th, 2011
9:13 am
Just another REPUBLICAN TAX !
Great for Republican’s commuting into town, they get a first hand experience at what “Their” GOP legislators do for them !
Martin the Calvinist
October 26th, 2011
9:13 am
All praise to the Lord above I don’t live in Atlanta! No toll roads here in good ole Augusta!
But, there has to be a consistent and fair way to fund for roads and their maintenance without tolls, I’m just not so sure the politicians in our fine state can come up with one.
Mick
October 26th, 2011
9:13 am
Among one of the many reasons that I will be relocating out west is that you won’t find a toll in idaho, montana, utah, arizona. they just have roads without the regressive tolling. Go west old man…
Jay
October 26th, 2011
9:14 am
No, jm. They won’t.
The current federal gas tax of 18.4 cents a gallon hasn’t been raised since 1993. No inflation adjustment, no increase of any kind since then.
Just to keep pace with inflation, it would be 27 cents today, which would solve a lot of the financing problems in transportation.
Charging tolls is a blatantly unfair and inefficient means of solving the problem. It costs a lot more to erect toll booths, buy the technology, do the enforcement, etc., that it would to simply raise the gas tax.
In addition, those driving the interstate routes that are tolled are paying twice. They are paying the gas tax AND paying extra to drive roads. Other motorists who don’t have to use interstates get a pass. It concentrates the burden on a certain subset, rather than sharing it broadly.
Joe The Plumber too.
October 26th, 2011
9:14 am
amwet, it always comes down to scrotums with you doesn’t it. Don’t worry I won’t tell anyone.
Jm
October 26th, 2011
9:15 am
Don’t like tolls?
Use MARTA
too little time
October 26th, 2011
9:17 am
Some of us DID poo-poo the idea ahead of time. The real purpose became crystal clear AFTER the lanes opened: the purpose of these toll lanes is NOT to relieve traffic, or even to provide a fast method of transport in traffic. In short, the purpose of these lanes was to INCREASE traffic congestion overall in the other lanes in order to make money from the toll lanes.
IF the SRTA had set a toll so as to keep the toll lane as full as possible while maintaining the promised 40mph in that lane, then I might think differently. But they didn’t. Ignoring that the other lanes were experiencing extreme traffic, they kept tolls high and ridership low in the HOT lanes. The clearly are not interested in overall traffic congestion.
Peter
October 26th, 2011
9:17 am
JM. did you buy into the market yesterday on the down day ?
Jefferson
October 26th, 2011
9:18 am
The GOP flock are mere pawns who won’t see it until they are too old to do anything but suck up and then its too late.
Jm
October 26th, 2011
9:18 am
Jay, I’m fine with raising the gas tax. The end game though is tolls.
Peadawg
October 26th, 2011
9:18 am
Yes Jay @ 9:14, raise the gas tax when it’s already $3.30+ a gallon.
moonbat betty
October 26th, 2011
9:19 am
The HOT lanes are HOT.
More taxes.
LOVE IT!
USinUK
October 26th, 2011
9:19 am
“Take US27 South from Columbus to the Florida state line. It is a beautiful 4-lane road now — you will be the only car on it.”
oooooooooooooo … sweet …. (although, you’d probably have to stop every 40 miles to clear the bug detritus off your car)
Jm
October 26th, 2011
9:20 am
Jay
Btw, national review (not s lib publication obviously) took Perry’s tax plan to task
U may want to check it out
Says the plan is a dodge and won’t produce enough revenue
USinUK
October 26th, 2011
9:20 am
Don’t like trolls?
stay off the bridge.
Jm
October 26th, 2011
9:22 am
Peter. I’ve been buying the last several months and about tapped out which is fine
I like my basis and I have pretty much all gains
Mick
October 26th, 2011
9:22 am
The end game might be to go where the tolls aren’t..
Don't Tread
October 26th, 2011
9:25 am
“those driving the interstate routes that are tolled are paying twice”
But yet there’s absolutely no problem when other people get taxed twice, right? Estate taxes are great, aren’t they?!
Jm
October 26th, 2011
9:26 am
Politico has a column about how Obama is faking his deportation numbers
Washington Post said the same thing
(for those of you pro deportation)
Joe The Plumber too.
October 26th, 2011
9:26 am
Yawn….gotta go charge a few OWS ebt cards. Play nice kids.
Peter
October 26th, 2011
9:26 am
Great Job Jm. the market will pop today, one of my favorites BEXP got bought out…. looking for upside to continue until end of year.
Best to you !
TaxPayer
October 26th, 2011
9:28 am
Perhaps jm will splain to us all just how toll roads such as our little HOT lane will ever pay for anything by utilizing the revenues raised from tolls. From what I’m seeing, it looks more like taxpayer-funded and subsidized government jobs. Those thingies that Republicans despise with a passion.
Jm
October 26th, 2011
9:30 am
Mick 9:22
You leaving FL?
BlahBlahBlah
October 26th, 2011
9:30 am
We’re from the government, and we’re here to help!
Jm
October 26th, 2011
9:32 am
TaxP but you love them, so cheer up!
BlahBlahBlah
October 26th, 2011
9:32 am
“It concentrates the burden on a certain subset, rather than sharing it broadly.”
Funny how this doesn’t bother Jay when we’re talking about Federal income taxes.
Jm
October 26th, 2011
9:34 am
Peter awesome on BEXP
When mine get bought out, I Sometimes have mixed feelings. Depending on price I sometimes think. The acquirer got too good of a deal. But I try not to look a gift horse on the mouth…. Too much anyway
Granny Godzilla
October 26th, 2011
9:34 am
Jm
to be accurate Politco published a piece by Lamar Smith R-TX
Aquagirl
October 26th, 2011
9:36 am
you won’t find a toll in idaho, montana, utah, arizona. they just have roads without the regressive tolling. Go west old man…
Because states like Idaho and Arizona receive more back from the feds than they pay in taxes.
Enjoy sucking the taxpayer teat while driving to your Teanut protests.
Paul
October 26th, 2011
9:37 am
“Georgia’s transportation leadership has long treated voters more as sheep to be manipulated than as customers to be heeded.”
What happens when public officials forget who they work for.
“tolls became an intellectual fad among transportation planners fascinated by their potential not only to finance infrastructure and generate revenue, but also to socially engineer commuting behavior.”
In conservative Georgia? Social engineering? Looks like some here are going to have to rethink where on the political spectrum ’social engineering’ falls.
“leadership faced a huge unmet need for transportation investment in Georgia but felt trapped by its own anti-tax rhetoric.”
Look at Cain’s and Perry’s tax plans. But in all fairness, their actions (tax increases) don’t match their rhetoric (no tax increases, any time, any place). But the base loves it. So why does the Georgia populace get so bent out of shape when state leaders to the same thing?
Jay
October 26th, 2011
9:39 am
Paul, Texas in many ways has been Ground Zero in this whole tolling fad, hasn’t it?
TaxPayer
October 26th, 2011
9:41 am
Yet, our state-level politicians have come out against this new one-cent SPLOST because it is a tax increase! It’s a fee, I tells ya, because it only applies to those that buys. Just like that HOT thingie except that the HOT thingie uses road that the taxpayer paid for but now cannot use without paying again and it does not actually generate revenue. In fact, it requires even more taxpayer funding. Republicans, however, pass this off on their constituency as “good”.
USinUK
October 26th, 2011
9:42 am
“you won’t find a toll in idaho, montana, utah, arizona”
I hear rush hour in Boise and Bozeman are a b*tch
willie lynch
October 26th, 2011
9:42 am
Georgia has been under Republican control fro the Governor to representatives elected to the senate for a long time now. You can’t blame the ills of the state on Democrats this is a purely Republican screw up.
T. Ellis
October 26th, 2011
9:47 am
“Double taxation” can be eliminated by giving rebates to toll road users for the amount of gas taxes they have paid for all miles driven on toll roads. Such programs already exist on toll roads in New York and Massachusetts. Electronic toll collection makes it easy to calculate and pay the rebate amounts. Eliminating this form of double payment should reduce opposition to expanded use of tolling, since drivers would then be paying either a toll or a gas tax but never both.
Paul
October 26th, 2011
9:49 am
“Paul, Texas in many ways has been Ground Zero in this whole tolling fad, hasn’t it?”
Yes, it has.
And the problems have been legion, from the same discussed for Georgia to new ones. Texas put a wrinkle on it – the toll roads will be private, in this case awarded to a Spanish firm that has a troubling financial situation.
A major pusher – advocate – is Gov Perry. He can claim ‘no new taxes’ while ignoring the higher than necessary costs imposed on the public.
Jm
October 26th, 2011
9:50 am
Granny 9:34 yes it obviously has some bias
That’s why I noted WaPo too
Jm
October 26th, 2011
9:51 am
And granny. If you want to refute it, you’d need to refute his facts, not just point out he’s a Republican
Mighty Righty
October 26th, 2011
9:54 am
Democrats would favor these toll roads if the present state government were under the control of their party. Funny how the Democrat controlled North East is full of toll roads. Guess tolls are not invented by Republicans. BTW, Democrats favor a commuter tax. Also, watch Jay and the Atlanta Democrats push for the suburbs to pay more tax to support the failing Atlanta infrastructure..
DBCOOPER
October 26th, 2011
9:55 am
As soon as I get my Fisker I will let you know. Lets see??? I payed $16,000 in Federal Income taxes last year nad probably more this year. The Obama administration has borroweed and / or wasted 3.5 trillion dollars in less than 3 years? I should get a Fisker for free?! Right?
Jm
October 26th, 2011
9:55 am
Paul from what I read they canceled perry’s grand corridors plan
Jay
October 26th, 2011
9:56 am
You have a link for that WaPo story, jm?
Because that Politico oped is lame on its own.
kayaker 71
October 26th, 2011
9:56 am
Nothing else seems to be working in Bozo’s re-election campaign so now he is pandering to a different group of voters every month in an effort to boost his re-election bid. First it was the teachers, firefighters and police officers with his 37B dollar extension of unemployment benefits for a year, next it was tax subsidies for those who hired veterans, then it was underwater home owners extending re-finance while ignoring their possible inability to pay and lastly, we have student loan deferral to pander to the 1.1M who have student loans to repay and have no way to pay for them. Each of these target groups will be needed to ensure Bozo’s election efforts. Next? Shanessa will certainly get a boost in her welfare check……….And who is paying for this e-election effort? The American taxpayer. Corruption by those evil Georgia Republicans? Like a drop in the ocean compared to Bozo and his cronies. Denial is a wonderful thing.
Guy Incognito
October 26th, 2011
9:59 am
Trucker Loses Haul On I-696
“There’s three lanes that are just covered with Smashed Pumpkins,”
So that’s what they’ve been doing since breaking up. Wow, that’s good coverage for just 3 people!
AmVet
October 26th, 2011
10:00 am
All the pusillanimous anti-protest boys need is a charismatic new icon.
A modern day George Wallace.
But instead of standing on the University of Alabama campus, he will stand in front of 10 Wall Street and in his best arch-conservative voice proclaim:
“Economic injustice now! Economic injustice tomorrow! Economic injustice forever!”
And the meek think they are gonna inherit something…
Bosch
October 26th, 2011
10:01 am
“Funny how the Democrat controlled North East is full of toll roads.”
Funny too how the Democrat controlled North East is also full of mass transit.
Jay
October 26th, 2011
10:01 am
Shanessa, kayaker?
You are shamelessly transparent.
Jm
October 26th, 2011
10:01 am
Jay I’ll hunt for it
USinUK
October 26th, 2011
10:01 am
“First it was the teachers, firefighters and police officers with his 37B dollar extension of unemployment benefits for a year, next it was tax subsidies for those who hired veterans, then it was underwater home owners extending re-finance while ignoring their possible inability to pay and lastly, we have student loan deferral to pander to the 1.1M who have student loans to repay and have no way to pay for them.”
you’re right – he should just stick to the 1% – they’re the only ones that matter since these other folks can’t/ won’t pull themselves up by their bootstraps or some such …
oh, and if you think that other presidents don’t do the same … well, as you say “Denial is a wonderful thing.”
Mighty Righty
October 26th, 2011
10:02 am
kayaker 71
October 26th, 2011
9:56 am
So true!
AmVet
October 26th, 2011
10:02 am
Democrats would favor these toll roads if the present state government were under the control of their party.
The laugh of the morning…
Bosch
October 26th, 2011
10:02 am
“There’s three lanes that are just covered with Smashed Pumpkins,”
Guy,
That’s one of my favorite bands!!
1811/0311
October 26th, 2011
10:03 am
Guy Incognito :
I thought it was “Occut*rd Park” ?
1811/0311
October 26th, 2011
10:04 am
…………. an “a” or a “u” ………….. take your pick.
jt
October 26th, 2011
10:04 am
R&D America’s new motto———————
.
“Thank you sir…May I have another”.
Jm
October 26th, 2011
10:06 am
Ok I’ll have to type this out….. But I’m sure it won’t earn me any love
http://Www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/12/05/AR2010120503230.HTML
Jay
October 26th, 2011
10:07 am
link doesn’t work, jm.
Mighty Righty
October 26th, 2011
10:07 am
“Funny too how the Democrat controlled North East is also full of mass transit.”
Mass transit is essential when the streets are so bad one could lose a vokswagon in a pot hole to say nothing of the tax rates which force population movement to Georgia.
AmVet
October 26th, 2011
10:08 am
When it comes to 71, Righty and plenty more southern, white, male Republicans just like them – including the refugees for Ms. Tucker’s forum that have gravitated here – forget about a new George Wallace and a new message.
The old one still works fine…
willie lynch
October 26th, 2011
10:09 am
Let’s not lose focus people, this is a republican disaster as usual.
getalife
October 26th, 2011
10:09 am
Tolls are a tax increase cons.
The revolution has begun.
1811/0311
October 26th, 2011
10:10 am
“OCCUT*RD” BULLETIN BOARD:
“Occupy Rules: Use Only ‘Gender-Neutral Pronouns’…
OFFICIALS: ‘Occupy Boston’ poses health risk…
Atlanta Mayor Urges End To ‘Occupy’, Says Protesters ‘On Path To Escalation’…
Tear gas used on Occupy protesters in Oakland
“Occupy” waste, noise test neighbors’ patience”
USinUK
October 26th, 2011
10:11 am
Jay – if this is the article he’s referring to, the “criticism” is actually kinda funny:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/us-federal-government-says-it-deported-a-record-nearly-400000-people-in-the-past-year/2011/10/18/gIQATuEquL_story.html
first, you have a republican saying that some of the people that were deported don’t count because they left voluntarily
then, you have people saying the numbers are inflated because some of the crimes committed were minor crimes.
how’s that song go again? clowns to the left of me … jokers to the right …
Jay
October 26th, 2011
10:12 am
Scout, I swear, you produce more rabbit holes than all the rabbits in the continental US combined.
BADA BING
October 26th, 2011
10:13 am
Occupy Atlanta City Jail
kayaker 71
October 26th, 2011
10:13 am
Bookman 10:01,
“You are shamelessly transparent”….. Yeah, so was that upstanding liberal on that tape posted by Stands that I asked you to comment on last night, suggesting that her husband deliver some kind sex of therapy to his wife who is running for President. Was he “shamelessly transparent” too? Or perhaps that guy named Savage that suggested that Santorum be given some kind of sexual boost to his manhood. There’s a little “transparency” for you. It’s OK for some but not so good for others. And the double standard persists.
Jm
October 26th, 2011
10:13 am
Dern it
Google title cause the address is correct
“unusual methods helped ice break deportation records, e-mails and interviews show”
By Andrew Becker
Published December 6 2010
Guy Incognito
October 26th, 2011
10:13 am
Bosch
No way. Mine too, partly because I saw them grow-up around Chicago/Milwaukee. Another piece of common ground
willie lynch
October 26th, 2011
10:13 am
Mighty Righty
October 26th, 2011
10:07 am
The only thing that causes mass movement south is weather. Or maybe it’s the south’s domination of the lowest rated states in education. See what your great tax rates are getting for you.
Gator Joe
October 26th, 2011
10:14 am
Jay:
I’m not a fan of tolls, though I do support taxation that is fairly distributed (no, I’m not referring to the Fair Tax). Roads need to be built and maintained and the funding to do so must come from a reliable source. The Wealthy, Corporate Right avoid paying their share of taxes, some of which would go for transportation, so the rest of us make up the difference in of higher income tax rates, sales taxes, and yes, tolls.
I’ll wager some of the most outspoken opponents and no-votes of the proposed transportation tax will be Right Wing, Republican Fat Cats
Peadawg
October 26th, 2011
10:15 am
“Tolls are a tax increase” – Then you should on board with it, getalife.
Jay
October 26th, 2011
10:15 am
If that’s the story, USinUK, all it does is quote Lamar Smith saying the same unverified things he claims in the oped. But maybe jm had something else in mind, we’ll see.
Jm
October 26th, 2011
10:15 am
Usinuk 10:11
Wrong. As usual.
Jack
October 26th, 2011
10:16 am
“You people just don’t comprehend..”. I think some of us do. That’s why we consider the source when liberals try to deflect criticism of their inane opinions. I think the reason Bookman didn’t mention the Woodruff Park clean-up was because he wrote a column in support of the losers.
Jm
October 26th, 2011
10:17 am
Jay 10:15
See my 10:13
moonbat betty
October 26th, 2011
10:17 am
What the government needs to do is tax people by the mile.
If they installed a mileage reader in every car, they could tax everyone .20/mile and that would encourage carpooling.
More taxes, less driving.
Case closed.
MOONBAT BETTY FOR PRESIDENT
getalife
October 26th, 2011
10:17 am
pea,
Again, I am against tax increases because governments wastes our money on occupations and corporate welfare. The only things coming out of corrupt congress.
BADA BING
October 26th, 2011
10:17 am
T Shirt….”I Occupied ATL, and All I Got Was This Lousy Orange Jumpsuit”
Jm
October 26th, 2011
10:18 am
I’m glad they got Gupta too btw
That’s a good message to the top tier to behave
USinUK
October 26th, 2011
10:18 am
Jm – “Usinuk 10:11
Wrong. As usual.”
well, if you’d ever post a link that actually WORKS, we wouldn’t have to play guessing games
(funny how all of your links are 404)
Bosch
October 26th, 2011
10:18 am
“Another piece of common ground
”
Guy,
There is hope for the future generations!
Butch
October 26th, 2011
10:19 am
Completely unrelated but…..is this the transparency we were expecting from our President?
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/10/26/justice-department-proposes-letting-government-deny-existence-sensitive/#comment
USinUK
October 26th, 2011
10:19 am
Jm – “I’m glad they got Gupta too btw”
and you collar ME for being wrong “as usual”, Mr. “wake up Van Winkle, this trial has been going on for years”
Butch Cassidy
October 26th, 2011
10:20 am
God I love reading the AJC in the morning. You folks in Georgia have no idea how much we appreciate your sense of logic up here in NYC. A story dedicated to the public anger over HOT lanes located in Georgia, created with the approval of Georgia leadership is immediately met with the predicitible “Hey, Obama Sucks!” poutrage. Are you required to sign a pledge saying that you will never discredit Republican leadership no matter how asinine their policies may be, or does this GOP ass kissing just come naturally?
Peadawg
October 26th, 2011
10:20 am
“Again, I am against tax increases”
Did someone jack your name? A liberal is against tax increases? Wow.
Libertarian
October 26th, 2011
10:21 am
You mean government mishandled and issue?? NO! They are usually so great at handling things.
Jm
October 26th, 2011
10:21 am
Bada
Orange jumpsuits will come in handy in monday though
But I just think OA isn’t that scaaaaary
Bosch
October 26th, 2011
10:22 am
“Did someone jack your name? A liberal is against tax increases? Wow.”
What’s that you are always saying about ASSuming Pea?
AmVet
October 26th, 2011
10:22 am
Corporal, your posts need to be prefaced with this!
http://tinyurl.com/6jmofbe
And Jack uses THAT post to indict others for deflecting???
This place is like a fifth grade classroom at times…
getalife
October 26th, 2011
10:23 am
“MOONBAT BETTY FOR PRESIDENT”
Might as well add another clown.
Jay
October 26th, 2011
10:23 am
Thanks, jm.
Not exactly earthshaking, but useful nonetheless. It reads like any entity, public or privately owned, trying to meet its target numbers by the end of the year.
As the one veteran says, “It’s not unusual for any administration to get the numbers they need by reaching into their bag of tricks to boost figures,” said Neil Clark, who retired as the Seattle field office director in late June, adding that in the 12 years he spent in management he saw the Bush and Clinton administrations do similar things.
Jm
October 26th, 2011
10:24 am
Usinuk
Well it has. But he’s a slippery b-sterd
Paul
October 26th, 2011
10:24 am
Jm
“Paul from what I read they canceled perry’s grand corridors plan”
Yes, it was. It was the largest proposed eminent domain (seizure of private property) in our lifetime. But Perry’s business backers loved it. It should come up in the campaign. He can’t use the ‘oops, I made a mistake’ excuse as he did with the HPV vaccine (which wasn’t a bad idea until he wanted to run for president)).
Mighty Righty
October 26th, 2011
10:24 am
willie lynch
October 26th, 2011
10:13 am
Delta is ready when you are.
Jay
October 26th, 2011
10:24 am
and jm, i also appreciate the heads up on the National Review piece on Perry’s plan. Forthright of you.
kayaker 71
October 26th, 2011
10:25 am
Meanwhile, our national debt has increased by 360B dollars since August. We are standing on the threshold of our debt being nearly 100% of our GDP. We are broke, my friends, and all we can talk about are toll roads and evil Georgia Republicans, mixed in with threads on how much of an Uncle Tom that Herman Cain seems to be and how much of an idiot that moose hunter from Alaska is. We are ignoring the obvious….. that elephant in the living room just doesn’t exist, does it libs? What idiocy.
WOODSTOCK MIKE
October 26th, 2011
10:27 am
I know liberals love unions but here’s a clear example of their effects… And once liberals read this article I’m sure they probably won’t even have any issues with it…
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-10-26/nurse-making-269-810-demonstrates-california-s-overtime-binge.html
stands for decibels
October 26th, 2011
10:27 am
Shanessa will certainly get a boost in her welfare check…
For those watching this soap opera, remember, *I’m* the offensive, oughta-be-banned guy because I posted a link to Real Time with Bill Maher that made Kayaker cry when he watched it.
Butch Cassidy
October 26th, 2011
10:27 am
kayaker 71 – “We are broke, my friends, and all we can talk about are toll roads”
Why don’t you tell that to the folks who apparently showed up at a public meeting to voice their disapproval of the HOT lanes but were never heard. I think they are trying to organize another meeting to specifically address the HOT lane situation, maybe you could show up with some Obama rants to balance the subject matter.
Jm
October 26th, 2011
10:28 am
Mmm jay. Difference is I don’t recall prior admins touting tough on immigration credentials to the same degree, or even at all in Clinton’s case
But if you find a lot of evidence to the contrary, I wouldn’t be shocked.
I doubt my memory is perfect on events from 20 years ago.
Peadawg
October 26th, 2011
10:28 am
“What’s that you are always saying about ASSuming Pea?”
I didn’t assume anything, Bosch. I asked a question.
Soothsayer
October 26th, 2011
10:28 am
Jay, there ain’t no need to dig tunnels under downtown Atlanta. Heck, all they gotta do is jack the whole thing up, put some supports under there, and then run them roads right smack dab underneath downtown Atlanta. Simple as pie!
Just like moving the Airport out to Gwinnett so’s them poor folks what lives out there ain’t gotta worry about fighting traffic getting to their business flight. Simple as pie!
moonbat betty
October 26th, 2011
10:29 am
That wasn’t very nice getalife.
But you are right.
We already have a moonbat betty in office now!
On a positvie note…
The Occupiers will now have a job: Community service – probably picking up road kill or filling potholes with play dough.
At least doing something productive for society…
mike "hussein" smith
October 26th, 2011
10:29 am
So here’s what you GOP voters north of the city should do: Go to the Capitol in Atlanta, park all your cars wherever you can there and hold your ground till hell freezes over or Kasim Reed’s puppet masters say it’s time to crack down.
Jm
October 26th, 2011
10:30 am
“offering voluntary return was not common practice for the agency”
Said the head of the ice union
Where’s soco when u need him
getalife
October 26th, 2011
10:31 am
So cons are for tax increases now.
What next?
Bigger government?
Good grief.
USinUK
October 26th, 2011
10:31 am
Jm – March 2011 (when he was originally charged) is years???
not quite.
Butch Cassidy
October 26th, 2011
10:31 am
Great, WOODSTOCK MIKE is now providing links to California unions in response to public outcry over the HOT lanes on 85 in GEORGIA. Does relevance EVER come into play down there?
Bosch
October 26th, 2011
10:34 am
Butch Cassidy,
It’s called pathetic deflection.
Guy Incognito
October 26th, 2011
10:35 am
Bosch,
Next you’ll tell me that Granny loves Janes Addiction
Woodstock
Speaking of unions, they’re all for the Canada-Texas pipeline because of the jobs, but the enviromentalists oppose it. How will the pres please both groups?
getalife
October 26th, 2011
10:35 am
9% approval rating for corrupt do nothing congress shows we should not be arguing for any corrupt party.
But we do.
Mick
October 26th, 2011
10:35 am
yaker
You are all wet as usual, keep paddling though..
jm
Yes, dual residence in about five years, looking hard at reno, nevada for secondary, florida primary. I need the sun in the winter. Always liked hollywood beach…
Butch Cassidy
October 26th, 2011
10:35 am
Bosch – “It’s called pathetic deflection.”
That’s not deflection, it’s more like derailment.
Bosch
October 26th, 2011
10:35 am
Yeah, where is SoCo?
kayaker 71
October 26th, 2011
10:36 am
Woodstock Mike, 10:27,
Great article. Governor Moonbeam is a great example of liberal efficiency in government….. what is it now, close to 30B in the tank? Puts those evil Georgia Republicans in a different light, now don’t it?
Bosch
October 26th, 2011
10:36 am
Guy,
It wouldn’t surprise me in the least if Mrs. G is a JA fan. She’s one wicked cool grandma.
AmVet
October 26th, 2011
10:37 am
Lets face it, we in the 99% are screwed.
Big time screwed by big time business interests.
And as long as the Hear No Evil, See No Evil, Speak No Evil Club, aka the Republican Party in the post-Reagan 11th Commandment era, keeps their collective heads up their collective and spacious keesters, the situation for most Americans will only improve at a glacial pace, if at all.
Banks got bailed out, we got sold out.
Jm
October 26th, 2011
10:37 am
“it’s breaking the rules to break the record”
“in the Atlanta area, ice officers were told to persuade immigrants who had already asked to see immigration judge to instead voluntarily leave the country”
“over a two week period at least 100-150 Mexican nationals, some of whom had multiple DUI’s had their court cases reassigned as voluntary return, which was not common practice”
4 days after year end goal they were promptly told “do not over VRs to aliens who haven been convicted of or are pending DUI”
Yeah jay, I guess they were just trying to meet #s
But it’s dirty
Butch Cassidy
October 26th, 2011
10:38 am
kayaker 71 – “Puts those evil Georgia Republicans in a different light, now don’t it?”
I get it now, you can’t bring yourself to find fault in your party, regardless of the facts surrounding the controversy, so you look to another state where apparently the opposite party is “sticking it to em” just as bad. Brilliant, but how does that solve the HOT lane situation in Georgia again?
Matti is not afraid of you
October 26th, 2011
10:39 am
If the protestors wouldn’t leave the park peacefully as requested, the taxpayer-supported police officers removed them forcibly. It’s the way of the world.
Now, IF THE FACISTS THAT OWN OUR GOVERNMENT WON’T BACK THE HELL OFF PEACEFULLY as requested…
St Simons - we're on Island time
October 26th, 2011
10:39 am
Summary
Thread: Republican HOT lanes – typical con cluster**
Conservative Rebuttal : but…but Obama sucks
OWS protesters smell bad & go to jail
illegal messicans
When diversion trolling is all you got, work it babeee
Republican – It’s What’s for Dinner in 2012
Jm
October 26th, 2011
10:39 am
Jay 10:24 thx
getalife
October 26th, 2011
10:41 am
1 % are making more money than ever.
Time to end globalization before the riots break out.
moonbat betty
October 26th, 2011
10:42 am
Hopefully Obama will provide amnesty for the undocumented democrats.
carlosgvv
October 26th, 2011
10:42 am
Jay – 8:22
No, Jay, they don’t have a clue as to how their paranoia is being used against them. And, when you combine their simple, gullible minds with skilled Corporate and Republican propaganda, you may be sure they never will.
Tommy Maddox
October 26th, 2011
10:42 am
Who ever came up with and/or implemented this HOT idea should be flogged.
And Butch, we don’t care how they operate in New York.
Mick
October 26th, 2011
10:43 am
woodstock
That was a good link, it is a problem, that kind of money cannot be justified. We love our cops, firemen and nurses but as taxpayers it’s just not feasible for any one of them to be pulling down hundreds of thusands of dollars to the detriment of their replacements in the years to come….
Jm
October 26th, 2011
10:43 am
Jay 10:24 I’m a facts oriented kind of guy even if you don’t think so
At this point I don’t think I’d say the plan is “loco”
But I would say it doesn’t do a darn thing to fix the deficit and is dangerous for increasing our national debt
In short. I don’t like it
USinUK
October 26th, 2011
10:43 am
jm – 10:37 – bottom line – isn’t the important thing that they’re going?
I mean, voluntary or not … pending DUI or not, the most important thing is that they’ve got a one-way ticket south, si?
Paul
October 26th, 2011
10:44 am
Jm
From Politico regarding National Review’s criticisms of Perry’s tax plan: “and Perry seems unwilling to spell out the cuts necessary to get spending in rough balance with the amount of revenue it would collect.”
This is consistent with his behavior as governor during the last budget fiasco. Billions in cuts – but he never got real specific (except for musing that maybe Texas should just pull out of Medicaid).
When the impact of the cuts became apparent, he took a remarkable ‘not my fault’ attitude, telling teachers who’d been laid off “don’t blame me, I didn’t lay you off. Your school boards did that.”
Apparently he can’t connect two dots to figure out why the layoffs became necessary in the first place.
Butch Cassidy
October 26th, 2011
10:44 am
Tommy Maddoxx – “And Butch, we don’t care how they operate in New York.”
And judging from some of these posts, apparently you don’t care what happens in Georgia either. Unless of course you’ve recently been over run by California Union members lead by Obama.
HDB
October 26th, 2011
10:45 am
“… next it was tax subsidies for those who hired veterans,”
Excuse me….but that’s been policy since NIXON was in the White House! Employers got tax breaks for every vet they hired. The problem is now, Corporate America is hoarding money rather than hiring vets and taking advantage of additional tax breaks offered by the Obama Administration.
Corporate America at its best!!
deegee
October 26th, 2011
10:45 am
What was so bad about the HOV lane? It did what it was designed to do. People were carpooling and van pooling. That helped take cars off the road and make the commute a little easier. Now we have a perfectly good lane of traffic that only a small fraction of commuters are eligible to use. What problem was the HOT lane supposed to resolve?
Thomas
October 26th, 2011
10:45 am
In radio interview with Scott Hennen, the Ragin’ Cajun says the President needs to shake up his economic team, fears the fiscal crisis could spell trouble for Obama in 2012.
Carville: “Everything worries me in this environment. Nobody’s gotten elected with these kinds of numbers. So, I’m worried in the general election.”
Also dismisses Cain as a serious candidate: “Herman Cain is not going to be the president of anything…. Herman Cain is a salesman.”
Peadawg
October 26th, 2011
10:46 am
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/7148159/house-democrats-request-hearing-nfl-hgh-testing
“Three Democratic congressmen are urging the House Energy and Commerce Committee to hold hearings on the impasse between the NFL and players union on testing for human growth hormone.”
It looks like the GOP ain’t the only party w/ nut jobs.
Occupy Jay's Blog
October 26th, 2011
10:47 am
In light of our imprisonment, we’ve gone Tron style digital.
Game on.
In the corruption in the blogosphere!!
Butch Cassidy
October 26th, 2011
10:47 am
deegee – “What was so bad about the HOV lane?”
It didn’t provide any payola for the man! What, you think you environmentaly correct, earth loving hippies can stand in the way of a justified political payday? HA!
AmVet
October 26th, 2011
10:47 am
And you Republican jellyfish lie on the sidelines and denounce the 99%?
NEW YORK (CNNMoney) — It’s official. The first decade of the 21st century will go down in the history books as a step back for the American middle class.
Last week, the government made gloomy headlines when it released the latest census report showing the poverty rate rose to a 17-year high. A whopping 46.2 million people (or 15.1% of the U.S. population) live in poverty and 49.9 million live without health insurance.
But the data also gave the first glimpse of what happened to middle-class incomes in the first decade of the millennium. While the earnings of middle-income Americans have barely budged since the mid 1970s, the new data showed that from 2000 to 2010, they actually regressed.
For American households in the middle of the pay scale, income fell to $49,445 last year, when adjusted for inflation, a level not seen since 1996.
And over the 10-year period, their income is DOWN 7%.
http://i2.cdn.turner.com/money/2011/09/21/news/economy/middle_class_income/chart-income.top.jpg
Guy Incognito
October 26th, 2011
10:48 am
Bosch,
Have you given Silver Sun Pickups a try? Very Gish-esque in their sound.
Back on-topic. Gas is on it’s way out as a fuel, just like the F-35 could well be our last manned fighter. How we fund the roads is a concern, but I’m hoping the flying car makes it a non-issue
Libertarian
October 26th, 2011
10:48 am
Haha. According to Amvet the Republicans are the ones in the pockets of big business. Riiiiight Amvet. The Dems don’t care at all about big business/Wall Street
Top contributors to Obama’s campaign:
University of California
Goldman Sachs
Harvard University
Microsoft Corp
Google Inc
JPMorgan Chase & Co
Citigroup Inc
Time Warner
Sidley Austin LLP
Stanford University
National Amusements Inc
WilmerHale LLP
Columbia University
Skadden, Arps et al
UBS AG
IBM Cor
General Electric
US Government
Morgan Stanley
Latham & Watkins
Lots of big business/wall street types on that list. But keep on believing your precious democrats just want to help the little guy.
Jm
October 26th, 2011
10:51 am
Paul
Yes. Perry has played a lot of dirty tricks with the TX budget that I think are ridiculous
I’m a Romney guy myself
Usinuk- I’m generally inclined to agree. But maybe there’s a reason they want the conviction first
Sean
October 26th, 2011
10:52 am
One interesting thing in the AJC article about Monday nights meeting with state Sen. Renee Unterman, DOT said that because we have more fuel efficient cars on the road, the less $$ it makes in tax revenue.
Sooo translation, we dont have enough $$, but we are too scare to tax you… now you have tolls.
Butch Cassidy
October 26th, 2011
10:52 am
Libertarian – “Lots of big business/wall street types on that list. But keep on believing your precious democrats just want to help the little guy.”
Okay, as long as the Right stops referring to Obama as a business hating socialist. Deal?
Bosch
October 26th, 2011
10:52 am
Guy,
“Have you given Silver Sun Pickups a try? Very Gish-esque in their sound.”
Yes, loves ‘em. My son saw them at Jingle Jam a few years back and we’ve been fans since.
Granny Godzilla
October 26th, 2011
10:53 am
GUY, Granny says
It’s been tough to come to grips with it, but good music is relegated to 78’s and 45’s.
“scuse me while I whack my record player with my walker.
kayaker 71
October 26th, 2011
10:53 am
Libertarian,
Where do you think that Bozo is going to raise that B dollars for his 2012 campaign?…. it sure ain’t from that segment that pays no federal income taxes. Seems a little hypocritical, now don’t it?
AmVet
October 26th, 2011
10:53 am
According to Amvet the Republicans are the ones in the pockets of big business. Riiiiight Amvet.
Lies. The refuge of the mentally weak and ethically crippled…
Bosch
October 26th, 2011
10:54 am
“but I’m hoping the flying car makes it a non-issue”
Guy, forgot to add:
Me, personally, I’m holding out for jet packs.
USinUK
October 26th, 2011
10:54 am
“Silver Sun Pickups”
sounds like a smoothie
Libertarian
October 26th, 2011
10:54 am
Butch Cassidy
I don’t speak for the republicans
Amvet is blindly partisan
Granny Godzilla
October 26th, 2011
10:55 am
OH the ravages of old age….
that is should be isn’t
Bosch
October 26th, 2011
10:55 am
Libertarian,
Most of us are under no delusion that the Democrats get huge campaign contributions from corporations — however, they do a better job of throwing us 99% a milk bone of two in the process (h/t stands for that).
Jm
October 26th, 2011
10:56 am
Amvet
The market is telling the lower and middle class: it’s time for a skill set upgrade. Or time to start a biz
Butch Cassidy
October 26th, 2011
10:56 am
kayaker 71 – “Where do you think that Bozo is going to raise that B dollars for his 2012 campaign?…. it sure ain’t from that segment that pays no federal income taxes”
Exactly, so I guess all you card carrying members of the GOP can finally admit that Obama is no more a business hating, job destroying, wealth envying, entitlement minded, spread the weatlth, marxist, kensyan, socialist than John Boehner is. Right?
AmVet
October 26th, 2011
10:56 am
I don’t speak for the republicans.
Perhaps, not.
But like Herman Cain, you sure have a problem with veracity…
Bosch
October 26th, 2011
10:57 am
USinUK,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-mxBDuRaZ8
This was their most popular song — I have to say, I was surprised that the lead singer was a dude.
Jay
October 26th, 2011
10:58 am
sheets
kayaker 71
October 26th, 2011
10:58 am
Bosch,
“They do a better job of throwing us 99% a milk bone or two in the process”……. Or at least they have made you think so.
Rubes never get it
October 26th, 2011
10:58 am
As a Gwinnettian I have to say that I HATE “HOT”. Not only is it unethical and immoral to tax the taxpayers twice just because you thought it up and you can, it is very confusing too.
Thankfully my 30 plus year commute to Midtown has ended for a 10 minute commute close to home.
I recently went to lunch with another couple in Buckhead. We purposely took one car to be able to “stick it to the man” and use the hot lanes, only to be not sure if we could. One passenger was adamant that to use the lane registration has to come first. Not wanting to be ticketed we sat in horrible traffic, at 2:30pm, with very few cars going in the hot lanes.
Can anyone clarify if registration has to happen before use with 3 or more passengers?
Libertarian
October 26th, 2011
10:58 am
Its ok Amvet…you’re not the only blind partisan on this blog daily. Most are sheep who blindly follow their chosen party.
AmVet
October 26th, 2011
10:59 am
Jm, sell your slogans for simpletons elsewhere.
Guy Incognito
October 26th, 2011
10:59 am
GG
““scuse me while I whack my record player with my walker.”
Don’t you mean your Victrola?
Bosch,
Saw SSP at Summerfest in Milwaukee 2 years ago. The BEST music and food festival on earth. Biggest too. Check it out sometime (summerfest.com)
Bosch
October 26th, 2011
10:59 am
“Or time to start a biz”
That is so freaking ridiculous for someone to think that is a possibility for anyone in the lower socio-economic, and for most in the middle class. It’s an excuse for someone who has obviously never done so.
itpdude
October 26th, 2011
11:00 am
Am I getting this right? Did they take a lane of regular interstate and make it a Hot Lane? How could it be so expensive if they didn’t even add lanes?
I mean, if the intention was to reduce traffic and give incentive for people to change their schedule, and not cause a huge clog even worse that before, why didn’t they add a lane and make that one the Hot Lane?
How did a few miles become so expensive?
Something is rotten here.
Jay
October 26th, 2011
11:00 am
yes, Rubes, you need to notify SRTA before departing. I believe you also have to have a transponder with you.
Jay
October 26th, 2011
11:01 am
Amvet, tone that down please.
Granny Godzilla
October 26th, 2011
11:03 am
I do have an old free standing Victrola in the foyer….it holds a huge Boston Fern.
Jm
October 26th, 2011
11:06 am
Bosch tell that to steve jobs and apple
Brent Hoffman
October 26th, 2011
11:09 am
Remove the HOT Lanes. Period…
Guy Incognito
October 26th, 2011
11:09 am
Bosch
“I was surprised that the lead singer was a dude”
That’s so wild. I had the same reaction the first time I heard Lazy Eye. Now I can’t stop playing, All The Go In Betweens
Pizza
October 26th, 2011
11:10 am
When will Atlanta get public mass transit to reduce congestion ? The Georgia legislature has seen to it that MARTA doesn’t go anywhere.
Those who would ride it would have a more civilized commute and those who don’t would have less traffic congestion.
John
October 26th, 2011
11:11 am
Abolish the SRTA and the overpaid state employees in it (you can pay me 200k to run a toll booth anyday). Get rid of ga400 too.
Intown
October 26th, 2011
11:13 am
To hell with the stupid HOT lanes. Move intown!
Bosch
October 26th, 2011
11:14 am
“it holds a huge Boston Fern”
That’s a neat idea Mrs. G.!
Guy,
My daughter loves that song — she really likes the part where there is the scream-o moment and then a break and it’s more calm — she says it’s like the guy is having an emo attack and then takes a deep breath and goes, “oh, I’m glad that’s over..”
Darwin
October 26th, 2011
11:17 am
I think it’s great. Republicans are running everything now in Georiga. How’s that change working out for you?
GT
October 26th, 2011
11:20 am
Georgia says if the feds can’t manage illegal immigration they will just have to take over. What a comment from a bunch of keystone cops.
Against the Georgia Peach Pass
October 26th, 2011
11:21 am
http://WWW.FACEBOOK.COM/AGAINSTPEACHPASS
Guy Incognito
October 26th, 2011
11:22 am
GG
So your Boston Fern is occupying your victrola?
How timely
Bosch,
Back to Smash P….in your opinion, which is the better album, Gish or Siamese Dream?
Traffic will be regulated through non-human actions. The GPS car is closer to reality than many realize. Sit back and enjoy the ride
Lilburn Lady
October 26th, 2011
11:27 am
This project is engineered by private investors, mostly foreign investors, as a quick way to make a few bucks. It was wrapped in the pretty paper of “transportation infrastructure improvement” and then eagerly gobbled up by transportation folks who needed something new to show that they were worth their fat paychecks.
If someone would read the contracts that our transportation folks signed, you would likely find clauses in that contract that will prevent us from improving existing alternate routes or building new ones that might “compete” with the HOT Lanes. That handcuffs us for any future congestion relief. This works out perfectly for SKANSKA, the Scandinavian Company that will profit from all of this because it ensures an increased level of congestion so that their HOT Lanes will always have riders. Problem is, the tolls collected are typically barely enough for “operation expenses” and there is no financial benefit to the state, nor is there enough money to pave roads. The other problem with these contracts is that while the private contractor is guaranteed a profit, the state, i.e., taxpayers, pays to build the road and maintain it. You know, I could almost stomach this “free market” exercise if it were even an American company as the contractor, but the two primary companies that are in this game are from Scandinavia and Australia. We are giving away our highways to foreign companies and sending our tax dollars into their coffers.
catlady
October 26th, 2011
11:33 am
I will never use the toll roads. It just provides reinforcement to the cons.
catlady
October 26th, 2011
11:34 am
And folks, NEVER, EVer vote to give more money in any way to the state government, or to the local government, to waste. Also, vote NO on every constitutional amendment as they are all attempts to remove a tax burden from someone and shift it onto you.
John
October 26th, 2011
11:36 am
Here’s an online petition to remove the HOT lanes
http://charlesread.com/hotlane/
C from Marietta
October 26th, 2011
11:39 am
Are you poor babies having to sit in awful traffic. LOL. If your not smart enough to live close to where you work, then you deserve to sit in traffic. Let the excuses begin, why you live more than 5 miles from your work. While your at it. Let’s complain about the oil companies pockets your lining, b/c your not willing to car pool or move closer to your work.
C from Marietta
October 26th, 2011
11:42 am
@Pizza,
We need to use the government to force them to use publilc transportation! Freedom of choice is overrated. Elect an emperor and we can remove our brains and have the big daddy governement make all our choices for us.
Corey
October 26th, 2011
11:45 am
Just keep repeating: small government, low taxes, family values/traditional family, religious faith, job creators, second ammendment rights, liberals and socialism; it works everytime in Georgia.
(the real) Independent
October 26th, 2011
11:47 am
So how does the transponder know when there are three people in the car and not to charge you? So how does the DOT know you DON’T have three people in the car when you wan’t to use the HOT lane and you don’t have a transponder?
(the real) Independent
October 26th, 2011
11:54 am
If they want to build a totally separate lane (new) and pay for it solely with toll revenue, let them. But don’t convert an existing lane to HOT lane. So what is the concept behind the HOT lane (other than be a revenue producer)? You empty one lane of most traffic, so it makes the others real bad, so more people choose to carpool? Hey, I have an idea! Let’s just close off 5 of the 6 lanes and make everyone drive in one lane. That will really encourage people to carpool or take Marta! We can put solar power collectors in the other 5 lanes!
Fantasia
October 26th, 2011
12:03 pm
If I85 drivers started using the HOT lane en masse – just screw the toll and 3 passenger minimum – the state would back down overnight. Sure, they’d pull over and ticket a few people to try to intimidate the rest but they couldn’t stop thousands of vehicles. Won’t happen ’cause no one wants to go first, but it’s fun to imagine anyway.
Greg
October 26th, 2011
12:03 pm
It is amazing that people can not see the usefulness of having such a lane available. It guarantees there will always be a lane with traffic moving. It helps people be able to plan better. It also encourages car pooling by allowing 3 person car pools to travel for free. You don’t have to be rich to pay the toll. If you can’t see the transportation problems we have in Atlanta then you are blind. Creative solutions are needed. This is one that allows a free flowing lane at all times. Can you not see the importance of that?
Franklinchild
October 26th, 2011
12:07 pm
If they think the penny sales tax will pass after this snafu, they may be in for a big surprise1
SwedeAtlanta
October 26th, 2011
12:07 pm
The reality is the HOT lanes were doomed to fail from the beginning. Whoever thought there would be enough people willing to pay for something they had already paid for needs to have their head examined. On top of that they increased the number of riders required to ride as high-occupancy from 2 to 3.
Metro Atlanta, the engine of the Georgia economy, is quickly becoming non-competitive for new employers and some employers are leaving the area. Employers are not only concerned about traffic but also an increasing difficulty in finding skilled workers.
The state legislature punts and pushes the traffic issue off to a SPLOST. They claim this is so local voters can decide but in reality it is to avoid any responsibility for the traffic mess due to lack of planning and INVESTMENT. With respect to the latter they just put their heads in the sand and hope the problem goes away.
Building more roads will never solve the region’s traffic problems. Solutions have to take the form of smart public transportation, tax and other incentives, programs working with employers to promote tele-working, etc. There is no silver bullet but historically the focus has been on roads.
I telework 2 x a week but commute from unincorporated Dekalb inside the perimeter to an office park near Cumberland. I could catch a MARTA bus about a five minute walk from where I live but….I would ride a bus for 15-20 minutes, take a train south (when my destination is north) one stop, then take a bus north and then change to a local shuttle bus. Total travel time by car is about 25 minutes depending on traffic. Total time by public transport 2.5 hours. So it isn’t an option.
Ben The Independent
October 26th, 2011
12:16 pm
I eagerly started to read this column by Georgia’s resident secular-progressive thinking there would be a chance for a rare agreement with Jay. But I see it’s the same old ‘how bad conservative Georgia is’ versus the likes of those jewelled liberal states such as Massachusetts. Anyway, I tried. Have a good day Jay.
usually lurking
October 26th, 2011
12:17 pm
@C from Marietta – seriously? How often have you changed jobs? Do you suggest moving each time you change jobs? Should I sell my house now so I can move closer to work? How about 2 income households where one person is 2 miles from work and the other person is 16 miles? Split the difference? That is such a lame argument.
(the real) Independent
October 26th, 2011
12:17 pm
I would ride the Marta train to the Braves game but it doesn’t go up 75 and it doesn’t go to the stadium. (To use the shuttle, if they don’t finally shut it down, you have to walk through Underground). Thanks, I will just drive.
Melvin Wexler
October 26th, 2011
12:17 pm
If you goons in Buford, Suwannee, Marietta, Acworth, etc wouldn’t get jobs 30 or more miles away from where you live then we wouldn’t need so many senseless lanes! If you wouldn’t worry so much about having a yard that you never use you could maybe live down the street from your job IN the city and maybe WALK to work and maybe you wouldn’t be so FAT.
WOODSTOCK MIKE
October 26th, 2011
12:18 pm
“Just keep repeating: small government, low taxes, family values/traditional family, religious faith, job creators, second ammendment rights, liberals and socialism; it works everytime in Georgia.”
I assume you would rather things to continue the way they are going now? LOL
Or you believe that existing policies by the Obama admininstration are working. LOL
And family values/religion, man those are terrible things to believe in!!
WOODSTOCK MIKE
October 26th, 2011
12:19 pm
I thought liberals were always in favor of more taxation?? What’s going on here??
I love the HOT lanes
October 26th, 2011
12:35 pm
people are “voting” for the HOT lanes everyday, Sure, a few hundred people show up at a town hall meeting, and a few hundred more have signed an on-line petition, but more and more people are using the lane everyday. I can’t wait to see the numbers when they come out how ridership has increased every week – I see it everyday. I have used them about 8 or 10 times and for less than a cup of coffee I can drive 60mph on the way to work. I ride by all the cars sitting in traffic and wonder what in the world are they are thinking. So a few hundred pay nothing to complain and thousands actually PAY to cast their vote.
Luke
October 26th, 2011
12:42 pm
I hope everyone stays angry! I own a small bussiness and refuse to buy the passes for my fleet. Our tax $ paid for the hot lanes and we pay tolls on top of that? This should make who you vote for in the next election easy…. fu hot lanes!
C Maggitt
October 26th, 2011
12:45 pm
I think its time the Republican rule to end in Ga
Corey
October 26th, 2011
1:00 pm
Woodstock Mike, thanks for helping me make my point. It works everytime. Perplexed are you? Relax. One day you will have your light bulb moment.
Women's Softball Team
October 26th, 2011
1:04 pm
Any of you wise ones ever consider all the taxes that show up on your cell phone bill? We have also already paid for ER and other charges that appear on the bill but we are still charged. This has to be George Bush’s fault!!
indigo
October 26th, 2011
1:05 pm
First you have HOV lanes. An attempt to encourage car pools and cut down on traffic congestion and emissions in the air.If they had taken away another lane from all traffic during rush hour- making two HOV lanes, it may have actually greatly increased car pooling because the gridlock otherwise would have been unbearable. That probably would not have been accepted by the public either: folks want that single occupancy travel.
But how a good idea- to cut down on emissions and to encourage car pools- got changed to the notion that the wealthier citizens should get to move faster on our highways, single occupancy or not, just is almost beyond comprehension. What were they thinking?
Women's Softball Team
October 26th, 2011
1:06 pm
No way Republicans will be in the minority in GA when you have BO at the top of Democratic party.
Women's Softball Team
October 26th, 2011
1:07 pm
Luke:
Does your small business consist of cooking things in your mobile lab?
Marié de la Sweetbottom Plantation
October 26th, 2011
1:12 pm
@I love the HOT lanes – Let ‘em eat cake baby! Let ‘em eat cake! If they can’t afford my Lexus then just please stay the hell out of my way and buy the regular Toyotas. I don’t care if the taxpayers bought the lane in the first place, I’m paying good money to keep them out of it now and Gov. Deal has even gave me loss leader pricing to boot. Y’all be good and let me over in a hurry now, ya’ heah?
SwedeAtlanta
October 26th, 2011
1:13 pm
Re: Women’s Softball Team @ 1:06
Georgians, time and again, vote against their own interests. They have bought into the notion that lower taxes that further restrict government’s ability to do its job, making sure those gay people don’t get married, allowing the carriage of firearms nearly anywhere, cutting funding to education from K through university level, closing their eyes to the traffic and polution problems, closing their eyes to the problems with our infrastructure including water, are just dandy.
If you just say you love Jesus, the 2nd Amendment, hate the fags and wrap yourself in the Murkan flag, all will be just fine and dandy.
Well we are seeing the results of that mentality as the state, regardless of what is done at the federal level, continues to decline. Local decisions, state decisions have as much if not a more profound effect on your life than what is done at the federal leve.
Women's Softball Team
October 26th, 2011
1:24 pm
Looks like swede’s answer is always higher taxes. swedie, the state of georgia has continually increased spending money on K-12 educaton but gotten worse results. As you are probably not savvy to matters of business I will let you in on a little secret. If you are not getting an adequate return on your money then you look for other investments. K-12 funding is definetly not a good investment in current form. How about a little voucher system in this area? Maybe you would just like the American system to follow the Stockholm example where government takes 60% of income and decides best where to spend it since obviously citizens are not capable of making intelligent decisions. I am of the Darwinian camp in which we should let the strongest survive. If you make bad decisions then you live with those bad decisions and not wait for someone to bail you out.
JMS
October 26th, 2011
1:35 pm
Seriously what happened to the big save gas and carpool campaign nonsense…. just goes to prove BIG goverment is all about the $$$ take take take…then take some more! Who ever came up with this brain f@rt should be fired!! I would like to know who much putting up all those camera;s and posts cost, does anyone have an accounting on that!???? Really as you know our tax dollars payed for it!
SwedeAtlanta
October 26th, 2011
1:41 pm
Women’s Softball Team
No, I am not advocating higher taxes. I am simply saying that lower taxes that deprive government of the ability to do their job are not a panacea. We are seeing the results of reduced staffing for police and firefighters. The number of roads in the metro area that need repair is staggering. I could go on and on about the key services that I think we can all agree are core government services that are languishing in this cut, cut, cut mentality. It would be different if the tax cut and service cut mentality was bringing us some jobs.
Why would we need a voucher program? We need to fix the schools but I didn’t need a voucher and got a very very good public education. Granted it wasn’t in Georgia. It was in the Rocky Mountains where people believed in science.
As for your slam at Sweden. First of all I am an American of Swedish descent. Secondly, if you had any understanding of their system you would not be so quick to slam it. First of all they had a banking crisis in the 1990s. Guess what they did? They essentially nationalized the banks and cleaned them out. Their economy is doing very well despite their high taxes. So low taxes do not equal prosperity.
Secondly, they are much more politically aware than Americans. I listen to their politicans and they get into extreme detail on their policies and people vote on a party because of their policies, not a personality.
Thirdly, they have different values than we do. They value the concepts of leisure time, ensuring young parents spend time establishing relationships with their newborns, the idea that everyone should have access to quality health care, no one should fear their golden years because they are going to starve to death or not have somewhere to live.
I would actually say they have much better “family values” than America despite the fact they are largely secular. They contribute, on a per capita basis, more to those less fortunate around the world than the U.S. They have lower child mortality rates. They have greater longevity and based on several studies the people are overall much happier than Americans.
Not everyone shares the value of more, more, more which is what you seem to love.
And lastly, I have run 3 businesses in my life. All were successful and I sold them at a profit. But I don’t have a problem paying a little more in taxes because I have done relatively well for myself.
trudy
October 26th, 2011
1:57 pm
don’t forget that gwinnett county voted down public transportation.. twice.. but we got it anyway
Rubes never get it
October 26th, 2011
2:08 pm
Thanks John, I signed the petition
I love the HOT lanes
October 26th, 2011
2:11 pm
The whole ” we already paid for these lanes” argument is short sighted – do you really think they were paid for back in the day and money hasn’t been spent on them up untill now or that money will not have to be spent on them again. I bet you never used the HOV lanes that you “already paid for”, so now you have a choice to pay more and actually ride in them instead of what you have been doing paying for them and watching over from the clogged lane beside it. The problem with them now is they shouldn’t stop where they do they should go all the way thru ATL, so people can get a 60mph ride all the way downtown – I hoipe they are working to extend them soon.
Try it you will like it…..I mean keep protesting the dollar and a half and take mine – PLEASE.
Corey
October 26th, 2011
2:30 pm
CBO: Agency budgets at lowest levels since 2002
Authorized spending for government agencies fell to its lowest level since 2002 last year and would fail to keep pace with inflation under budget caps adopted during this summer’s debate over the federal debt limit, the director of the Congressional Budget Office said Wednesday. Agency spending would take another dramatic hit if a congressional supercommittee fails to agree on additional savings, triggering $1.2 trillion in automatic spending cuts. Under that scenario, the CBO said, agency budgets would lag behind inflation by as much as 16 percent by 2021, endangering fast-growing programs such as veterans’ health care and Pell college grants. “In addition, current funding for some programs is less than many analysts believe is necessary to address the nation’s needs,” CBO director Douglas Elmendorf said in testimony prepared for delivery. “An example in this category is spending on transportation and other forms of infrastructure.”
idea
October 26th, 2011
3:56 pm
Instead of gas taxes and tolls, why not charge a fee each year based on the number of miles driven on your vehicle? The more you drive the more you pay.
Paddy O
October 26th, 2011
3:57 pm
Interestingly, the party that said gov’t does not work, or do anything well, was simply priming the pump to prepare an obstinant public for when they took over. In NJ, where at least they utilized a modicum of intelligence – installed HOV lanes, which were actually newly created, with federal money, and restricted their use to rush hour periods – the public their protested with such efficiency, that those HOV lanes were eliminated. Eliminating this HOT lane, which is the republican version of class warfare, should not be very hard – all that was installed WAS SIGNAGE. While your at it, ditch the asinine HOV lanes 24 hours a day too.
Paddy O
October 26th, 2011
3:58 pm
idea – that is exactly what the gas excise tax does, no?
Paddy O
October 26th, 2011
4:00 pm
ilove hot lanes – were you in a sorority or fraternity? subsidized by all the other students on campus?
Paddy O
October 26th, 2011
4:02 pm
swede – how power hungry is the swede gov’t? How much do they squander on the global military application? How diverse is sweden? how much crime is in sweden? not comparable.
Paddy O
October 26th, 2011
4:04 pm
swede is one of those liberal commies, who really thinks gov’t does a good job. Why doesn’t he tell us about he Colorado football team & its use of prostitutes to woo football prospects. wait, not prostitutes, bimbo co-eds.
Women's Softball Team
October 26th, 2011
4:17 pm
Swede:
If you don’t feel you pay enough in taxes then you can send your donation to the US Treasury at any point. Your problem is you don’t think others pay enough in taxes. Worry about your own situation and don’t try to manage others.
Dan
October 26th, 2011
4:22 pm
They were idiotic when they put them in, obstensively for the Olympics with federal money if I remember correctly. They don’t help conjestion or the evironment but the pols can claim they are an evironmentally postitive move. and this new toll idea shows absolutely zero foresight and is bound to be a huge waste of money, but that is what gov does best.
John Adams
October 26th, 2011
4:30 pm
Jim, I think you mean the state tax on motor fuels, not the federal tax — that is as changable as Atlanta weather. Then of course there’s the 4% state tax on motor fuel sales.
I say get rid of the gas taxes and just put up tolls on pretty much every road leading into Georgia, as well as some internally on the interstates (especially on 400 OTP).
It’s either that, or we start charging for mileage. Ane won’t THAT be a record-keeping nightmare!
I love the HOT lanes
October 26th, 2011
4:32 pm
Paddy O – no S or F for me. Do you ever pay to get into a National or State Park that you already paid for, is that right for us to have to pay since we already paid for them once. I think they call them user fees.
Mighty Righty
October 26th, 2011
4:51 pm
I see now it has come out that the WSO protesters are managed, run and piad by former ACORN “community organisers”. Isn’t that just great. No wonder Obamination and his lock step brown shirts won’t critisise these losers. Millions in damages to public facilities, trash, filth, desease, drugs, lawlesness and public indencecy, everything the looney left loves.
middleground
October 26th, 2011
9:21 pm
More people will leave Atlanta and take their jobs with them….
Repbulicans have brought us first place in bank failures, home foreclosures, failing schools, Public Private Partnerships (lake reservoirs turned into developments) CAPCOS, HB-87 which was designed to fail on prupose because those from Hall County need their welfare slaves for their businesses. Corruption in Gwinnett, Corruption in too many counties as commissioners are on the take………..its time for my beloved Georgia to clean house and kick everyone out………of both parties.
PeachPassSucks
October 26th, 2011
10:02 pm
@I love the HOT lanes: Wrong analogy. You don’t go to a state park every day. Plus they weren’t free in the 1st place. Now if the government can turn a free interstate lane to a toll lane, they can turn 2 next time, then your drive way even. Enjoy it while you can, as you pay the toll to pass by people who have spines and won’t submit to this corrupt government. BTW you really sound familiar…. I almost feel like you work for SRTA
Schrodinger's cat
October 27th, 2011
1:10 am
GREAT article Jay!!
Hello from down under by the way
sr citizen dawg
October 27th, 2011
12:18 pm
first the 400 fiasco………continuing the tolls after the date it was promised to end. now this mess. Can state government do anything right ?
keep on
October 27th, 2011
3:56 pm
sheeple keep electing these crooks who then hand over taxpayer millions to connected developers and road builders—it never ends.
ATLien
October 27th, 2011
4:42 pm
HATE IT!
Don
October 31st, 2011
10:37 am
Lets do the math….$16B for 285 lane miles of HOT/HOV lanes over 10 years with an average trip of about 15 miles per trip works out to about $100 per commuter PER DAY. What a deal…
Keep Up the Good Fight!
October 31st, 2011
11:11 am
:-&
Keep Up the Good Fight!
October 31st, 2011
11:13 am
Keep Up the Good Fight!
October 31st, 2011
11:14 am
[URL=http://www.smileyvault.com/][IMG]http://www.smileyvault.com/albums/CBSA/smileyvault-cute-big-smiley-animated-062.gif[/IMG][/URL]
WDH603
October 31st, 2011
11:18 am
The HOT lanes will not work for Atlanta because of how the entire road map design of Metro Atlanta funnels into downtown & causes a huge backup. There are several needed East-West alternate interstate routes needed to alleviate the large truck traffic to get around Atlanta, especially the Northern Arc from I-85 to I-59, and a super loop Atlanta by-pass from I-16 West of Macon to somewhere in Tennessee or Alabama. This old road design was effective in the 60’s & 70’s, but is now maxed out.. It’s time Metro Atlanta stopped the tape & band-aid approach & should build some real congestion relief. If this is not done, it will only get worse driving around here.
WDH603
October 31st, 2011
11:23 am
I forgot to add that the current North-South routes for thru traffic from I-285 to GA400, I-575 & I-985 are actually spokes to nowhere. There needs to be an East-West Interstate connector road for traffic to entirely bypass Atlanta. As it is today, that is not an option. A nickel per gallon tax would pay for this over time.