So, how’s that fancy toll-lane project working for you?
The public’s frustration and outrage over the state-imposed HOT lanes on I-85 has been entirely predictable. So too has been the state’s mishandling of the issue.
Georgia’s transportation leadership has long treated voters more as sheep to be manipulated than as customers to be heeded. Roads, for example, have traditionally gone not where they were needed, but where they would do politicians the most good. And that high-handed approach has been particularly noticeable when it comes to toll-road policy.
The history is familiar: Back when the decision was made to build Georgia 400 as a toll road, angry citizens were bought off with the pledge that tolls would end once the bonds were retired. Yet when the time came, that high-profile promise was broken. The State Road and Tollway Authority — a body chaired by the governor, and under the governor’s total control — simply voted it out of existence.
Then there’s the time a few years ago when, with very little fanfare, the state Department of Transportation decided it would toll Georgia 316 between Atlanta and Athens. State officials were forced to back down at the last minute, assuaging public anger by promising to never again try to convert existing highway lanes to toll lanes.
Once the outrage died away, that promise too was quietly abandoned, and soon state officials were looking to tolls as the answer to every challenge. The fabled Outer Perimeter was at one point going to be built as a toll road, justified by economic and traffic estimates that were wildly unrealistic. Truck-only toll lanes were proposed, until the trucking industry made it clear it would fight the idea. Tolls were even proposed as a way to fund a ludicrous system of tunnels beneath downtown Atlanta that would have made Boston’s Big Dig look like child’s play.
How have we come to this sad state of affairs? I’d propose a combination of three main factors:
1. State leadership faced a huge unmet need for transportation investment in Georgia but felt trapped by its own anti-tax rhetoric. Tolls seemed to offer a quiet way out of that predicament.
2. Nationwide, tolls became an intellectual fad among transportation planners fascinated by their potential not only to finance infrastructure and generate revenue, but also to socially engineer commuting behavior. The notion that people might balk at being socially engineered in such a fashion wasn’t given much consideration.
3. A concerted push among vendors — from bond attorneys, salesmen and financiers to toll-technology companies to good old-fashioned paving companies — who saw the toll fad as a new way to make big profits, often at the expense of unsophisticated state transportation departments. Those vendors also contributed financially to “think tanks” and other groups giving the toll industry its veneer of intellectual credibility.
So what we do now? State officials are playing for time, hoping that anger will recede and that motorists will come to accept their fate. But I’m not sure that’s going to work.
On Monday night, state Sen. Renee Unterman hosted a public meeting in Dacula so that citizens could talk to transportation officials about the toll project, but by all accounts it did not go well. State officials have also pleaded to Washington for help, requesting a waiver to at least let two-passenger carpools return to the HOT lanes.
However, it’s hard to blame Washington for creating this mess. When Transportation Secretary Ray Lahood visited Atlanta two years ago, he publicly questioned the wisdom of adding tolls to existing interstate lanes, suggesting that Georgia voters might not be too pleased by such a step. State officials went ahead with the plan anyway.
You also have to wonder how private companies bidding for the right to build new HOT lanes along I-75 and I-575 are reacting to the reception the idea has gotten so far. (A $16 billion, 285-mile network of such lanes is proposed for metro Atlanta).
The fares needed to make those projects pencil out will be considerably higher than those on I-85, and so far, the public’s not buying it.
– Jay Bookman
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304 comments Add your comment
Thomas
October 26th, 2011
10:45 am
In radio interview with Scott Hennen, the Ragin’ Cajun says the President needs to shake up his economic team, fears the fiscal crisis could spell trouble for Obama in 2012.
Carville: “Everything worries me in this environment. Nobody’s gotten elected with these kinds of numbers. So, I’m worried in the general election.”
Also dismisses Cain as a serious candidate: “Herman Cain is not going to be the president of anything…. Herman Cain is a salesman.”
Peadawg
October 26th, 2011
10:46 am
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/7148159/house-democrats-request-hearing-nfl-hgh-testing
“Three Democratic congressmen are urging the House Energy and Commerce Committee to hold hearings on the impasse between the NFL and players union on testing for human growth hormone.”
It looks like the GOP ain’t the only party w/ nut jobs.
Occupy Jay's Blog
October 26th, 2011
10:47 am
In light of our imprisonment, we’ve gone Tron style digital.
Game on.
In the corruption in the blogosphere!!
Butch Cassidy
October 26th, 2011
10:47 am
deegee – “What was so bad about the HOV lane?”
It didn’t provide any payola for the man! What, you think you environmentaly correct, earth loving hippies can stand in the way of a justified political payday? HA!
AmVet
October 26th, 2011
10:47 am
And you Republican jellyfish lie on the sidelines and denounce the 99%?
NEW YORK (CNNMoney) — It’s official. The first decade of the 21st century will go down in the history books as a step back for the American middle class.
Last week, the government made gloomy headlines when it released the latest census report showing the poverty rate rose to a 17-year high. A whopping 46.2 million people (or 15.1% of the U.S. population) live in poverty and 49.9 million live without health insurance.
But the data also gave the first glimpse of what happened to middle-class incomes in the first decade of the millennium. While the earnings of middle-income Americans have barely budged since the mid 1970s, the new data showed that from 2000 to 2010, they actually regressed.
For American households in the middle of the pay scale, income fell to $49,445 last year, when adjusted for inflation, a level not seen since 1996.
And over the 10-year period, their income is DOWN 7%.
http://i2.cdn.turner.com/money/2011/09/21/news/economy/middle_class_income/chart-income.top.jpg
Guy Incognito
October 26th, 2011
10:48 am
Bosch,
Have you given Silver Sun Pickups a try? Very Gish-esque in their sound.
Back on-topic. Gas is on it’s way out as a fuel, just like the F-35 could well be our last manned fighter. How we fund the roads is a concern, but I’m hoping the flying car makes it a non-issue
Libertarian
October 26th, 2011
10:48 am
Haha. According to Amvet the Republicans are the ones in the pockets of big business. Riiiiight Amvet. The Dems don’t care at all about big business/Wall Street
Top contributors to Obama’s campaign:
University of California
Goldman Sachs
Harvard University
Microsoft Corp
Google Inc
JPMorgan Chase & Co
Citigroup Inc
Time Warner
Sidley Austin LLP
Stanford University
National Amusements Inc
WilmerHale LLP
Columbia University
Skadden, Arps et al
UBS AG
IBM Cor
General Electric
US Government
Morgan Stanley
Latham & Watkins
Lots of big business/wall street types on that list. But keep on believing your precious democrats just want to help the little guy.
Jm
October 26th, 2011
10:51 am
Paul
Yes. Perry has played a lot of dirty tricks with the TX budget that I think are ridiculous
I’m a Romney guy myself
Usinuk- I’m generally inclined to agree. But maybe there’s a reason they want the conviction first
Sean
October 26th, 2011
10:52 am
One interesting thing in the AJC article about Monday nights meeting with state Sen. Renee Unterman, DOT said that because we have more fuel efficient cars on the road, the less $$ it makes in tax revenue.
Sooo translation, we dont have enough $$, but we are too scare to tax you… now you have tolls.
Butch Cassidy
October 26th, 2011
10:52 am
Libertarian – “Lots of big business/wall street types on that list. But keep on believing your precious democrats just want to help the little guy.”
Okay, as long as the Right stops referring to Obama as a business hating socialist. Deal?
Bosch
October 26th, 2011
10:52 am
Guy,
“Have you given Silver Sun Pickups a try? Very Gish-esque in their sound.”
Yes, loves ‘em. My son saw them at Jingle Jam a few years back and we’ve been fans since.
Granny Godzilla
October 26th, 2011
10:53 am
GUY, Granny says
It’s been tough to come to grips with it, but good music is relegated to 78’s and 45’s.
“scuse me while I whack my record player with my walker.
kayaker 71
October 26th, 2011
10:53 am
Libertarian,
Where do you think that Bozo is going to raise that B dollars for his 2012 campaign?…. it sure ain’t from that segment that pays no federal income taxes. Seems a little hypocritical, now don’t it?
AmVet
October 26th, 2011
10:53 am
According to Amvet the Republicans are the ones in the pockets of big business. Riiiiight Amvet.
Lies. The refuge of the mentally weak and ethically crippled…
Bosch
October 26th, 2011
10:54 am
“but I’m hoping the flying car makes it a non-issue”
Guy, forgot to add:
Me, personally, I’m holding out for jet packs.
USinUK
October 26th, 2011
10:54 am
“Silver Sun Pickups”
sounds like a smoothie
Libertarian
October 26th, 2011
10:54 am
Butch Cassidy
I don’t speak for the republicans
Amvet is blindly partisan
Granny Godzilla
October 26th, 2011
10:55 am
OH the ravages of old age….
that is should be isn’t
Bosch
October 26th, 2011
10:55 am
Libertarian,
Most of us are under no delusion that the Democrats get huge campaign contributions from corporations — however, they do a better job of throwing us 99% a milk bone of two in the process (h/t stands for that).
Jm
October 26th, 2011
10:56 am
Amvet
The market is telling the lower and middle class: it’s time for a skill set upgrade. Or time to start a biz
Butch Cassidy
October 26th, 2011
10:56 am
kayaker 71 – “Where do you think that Bozo is going to raise that B dollars for his 2012 campaign?…. it sure ain’t from that segment that pays no federal income taxes”
Exactly, so I guess all you card carrying members of the GOP can finally admit that Obama is no more a business hating, job destroying, wealth envying, entitlement minded, spread the weatlth, marxist, kensyan, socialist than John Boehner is. Right?
AmVet
October 26th, 2011
10:56 am
I don’t speak for the republicans.
Perhaps, not.
But like Herman Cain, you sure have a problem with veracity…
Bosch
October 26th, 2011
10:57 am
USinUK,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-mxBDuRaZ8
This was their most popular song — I have to say, I was surprised that the lead singer was a dude.
Jay
October 26th, 2011
10:58 am
sheets
kayaker 71
October 26th, 2011
10:58 am
Bosch,
“They do a better job of throwing us 99% a milk bone or two in the process”……. Or at least they have made you think so.
Rubes never get it
October 26th, 2011
10:58 am
As a Gwinnettian I have to say that I HATE “HOT”. Not only is it unethical and immoral to tax the taxpayers twice just because you thought it up and you can, it is very confusing too.
Thankfully my 30 plus year commute to Midtown has ended for a 10 minute commute close to home.
I recently went to lunch with another couple in Buckhead. We purposely took one car to be able to “stick it to the man” and use the hot lanes, only to be not sure if we could. One passenger was adamant that to use the lane registration has to come first. Not wanting to be ticketed we sat in horrible traffic, at 2:30pm, with very few cars going in the hot lanes.
Can anyone clarify if registration has to happen before use with 3 or more passengers?
Libertarian
October 26th, 2011
10:58 am
Its ok Amvet…you’re not the only blind partisan on this blog daily. Most are sheep who blindly follow their chosen party.
AmVet
October 26th, 2011
10:59 am
Jm, sell your slogans for simpletons elsewhere.
Guy Incognito
October 26th, 2011
10:59 am
GG
““scuse me while I whack my record player with my walker.”
Don’t you mean your Victrola?
Bosch,
Saw SSP at Summerfest in Milwaukee 2 years ago. The BEST music and food festival on earth. Biggest too. Check it out sometime (summerfest.com)
Bosch
October 26th, 2011
10:59 am
“Or time to start a biz”
That is so freaking ridiculous for someone to think that is a possibility for anyone in the lower socio-economic, and for most in the middle class. It’s an excuse for someone who has obviously never done so.
itpdude
October 26th, 2011
11:00 am
Am I getting this right? Did they take a lane of regular interstate and make it a Hot Lane? How could it be so expensive if they didn’t even add lanes?
I mean, if the intention was to reduce traffic and give incentive for people to change their schedule, and not cause a huge clog even worse that before, why didn’t they add a lane and make that one the Hot Lane?
How did a few miles become so expensive?
Something is rotten here.
Jay
October 26th, 2011
11:00 am
yes, Rubes, you need to notify SRTA before departing. I believe you also have to have a transponder with you.
Jay
October 26th, 2011
11:01 am
Amvet, tone that down please.
Granny Godzilla
October 26th, 2011
11:03 am
I do have an old free standing Victrola in the foyer….it holds a huge Boston Fern.
Jm
October 26th, 2011
11:06 am
Bosch tell that to steve jobs and apple
Brent Hoffman
October 26th, 2011
11:09 am
Remove the HOT Lanes. Period…
Guy Incognito
October 26th, 2011
11:09 am
Bosch
“I was surprised that the lead singer was a dude”
That’s so wild. I had the same reaction the first time I heard Lazy Eye. Now I can’t stop playing, All The Go In Betweens
Pizza
October 26th, 2011
11:10 am
When will Atlanta get public mass transit to reduce congestion ? The Georgia legislature has seen to it that MARTA doesn’t go anywhere.
Those who would ride it would have a more civilized commute and those who don’t would have less traffic congestion.
John
October 26th, 2011
11:11 am
Abolish the SRTA and the overpaid state employees in it (you can pay me 200k to run a toll booth anyday). Get rid of ga400 too.
Intown
October 26th, 2011
11:13 am
To hell with the stupid HOT lanes. Move intown!
Bosch
October 26th, 2011
11:14 am
“it holds a huge Boston Fern”
That’s a neat idea Mrs. G.!
Guy,
My daughter loves that song — she really likes the part where there is the scream-o moment and then a break and it’s more calm — she says it’s like the guy is having an emo attack and then takes a deep breath and goes, “oh, I’m glad that’s over..”
Darwin
October 26th, 2011
11:17 am
I think it’s great. Republicans are running everything now in Georiga. How’s that change working out for you?
GT
October 26th, 2011
11:20 am
Georgia says if the feds can’t manage illegal immigration they will just have to take over. What a comment from a bunch of keystone cops.
Against the Georgia Peach Pass
October 26th, 2011
11:21 am
http://WWW.FACEBOOK.COM/AGAINSTPEACHPASS
Guy Incognito
October 26th, 2011
11:22 am
GG
So your Boston Fern is occupying your victrola?
How timely
Bosch,
Back to Smash P….in your opinion, which is the better album, Gish or Siamese Dream?
Traffic will be regulated through non-human actions. The GPS car is closer to reality than many realize. Sit back and enjoy the ride
Lilburn Lady
October 26th, 2011
11:27 am
This project is engineered by private investors, mostly foreign investors, as a quick way to make a few bucks. It was wrapped in the pretty paper of “transportation infrastructure improvement” and then eagerly gobbled up by transportation folks who needed something new to show that they were worth their fat paychecks.
If someone would read the contracts that our transportation folks signed, you would likely find clauses in that contract that will prevent us from improving existing alternate routes or building new ones that might “compete” with the HOT Lanes. That handcuffs us for any future congestion relief. This works out perfectly for SKANSKA, the Scandinavian Company that will profit from all of this because it ensures an increased level of congestion so that their HOT Lanes will always have riders. Problem is, the tolls collected are typically barely enough for “operation expenses” and there is no financial benefit to the state, nor is there enough money to pave roads. The other problem with these contracts is that while the private contractor is guaranteed a profit, the state, i.e., taxpayers, pays to build the road and maintain it. You know, I could almost stomach this “free market” exercise if it were even an American company as the contractor, but the two primary companies that are in this game are from Scandinavia and Australia. We are giving away our highways to foreign companies and sending our tax dollars into their coffers.
catlady
October 26th, 2011
11:33 am
I will never use the toll roads. It just provides reinforcement to the cons.
catlady
October 26th, 2011
11:34 am
And folks, NEVER, EVer vote to give more money in any way to the state government, or to the local government, to waste. Also, vote NO on every constitutional amendment as they are all attempts to remove a tax burden from someone and shift it onto you.
John
October 26th, 2011
11:36 am
Here’s an online petition to remove the HOT lanes
http://charlesread.com/hotlane/
C from Marietta
October 26th, 2011
11:39 am
Are you poor babies having to sit in awful traffic. LOL. If your not smart enough to live close to where you work, then you deserve to sit in traffic. Let the excuses begin, why you live more than 5 miles from your work. While your at it. Let’s complain about the oil companies pockets your lining, b/c your not willing to car pool or move closer to your work.
C from Marietta
October 26th, 2011
11:42 am
@Pizza,
We need to use the government to force them to use publilc transportation! Freedom of choice is overrated. Elect an emperor and we can remove our brains and have the big daddy governement make all our choices for us.
Corey
October 26th, 2011
11:45 am
Just keep repeating: small government, low taxes, family values/traditional family, religious faith, job creators, second ammendment rights, liberals and socialism; it works everytime in Georgia.
(the real) Independent
October 26th, 2011
11:47 am
So how does the transponder know when there are three people in the car and not to charge you? So how does the DOT know you DON’T have three people in the car when you wan’t to use the HOT lane and you don’t have a transponder?
(the real) Independent
October 26th, 2011
11:54 am
If they want to build a totally separate lane (new) and pay for it solely with toll revenue, let them. But don’t convert an existing lane to HOT lane. So what is the concept behind the HOT lane (other than be a revenue producer)? You empty one lane of most traffic, so it makes the others real bad, so more people choose to carpool? Hey, I have an idea! Let’s just close off 5 of the 6 lanes and make everyone drive in one lane. That will really encourage people to carpool or take Marta! We can put solar power collectors in the other 5 lanes!
Fantasia
October 26th, 2011
12:03 pm
If I85 drivers started using the HOT lane en masse – just screw the toll and 3 passenger minimum – the state would back down overnight. Sure, they’d pull over and ticket a few people to try to intimidate the rest but they couldn’t stop thousands of vehicles. Won’t happen ’cause no one wants to go first, but it’s fun to imagine anyway.
Greg
October 26th, 2011
12:03 pm
It is amazing that people can not see the usefulness of having such a lane available. It guarantees there will always be a lane with traffic moving. It helps people be able to plan better. It also encourages car pooling by allowing 3 person car pools to travel for free. You don’t have to be rich to pay the toll. If you can’t see the transportation problems we have in Atlanta then you are blind. Creative solutions are needed. This is one that allows a free flowing lane at all times. Can you not see the importance of that?
Franklinchild
October 26th, 2011
12:07 pm
If they think the penny sales tax will pass after this snafu, they may be in for a big surprise1
SwedeAtlanta
October 26th, 2011
12:07 pm
The reality is the HOT lanes were doomed to fail from the beginning. Whoever thought there would be enough people willing to pay for something they had already paid for needs to have their head examined. On top of that they increased the number of riders required to ride as high-occupancy from 2 to 3.
Metro Atlanta, the engine of the Georgia economy, is quickly becoming non-competitive for new employers and some employers are leaving the area. Employers are not only concerned about traffic but also an increasing difficulty in finding skilled workers.
The state legislature punts and pushes the traffic issue off to a SPLOST. They claim this is so local voters can decide but in reality it is to avoid any responsibility for the traffic mess due to lack of planning and INVESTMENT. With respect to the latter they just put their heads in the sand and hope the problem goes away.
Building more roads will never solve the region’s traffic problems. Solutions have to take the form of smart public transportation, tax and other incentives, programs working with employers to promote tele-working, etc. There is no silver bullet but historically the focus has been on roads.
I telework 2 x a week but commute from unincorporated Dekalb inside the perimeter to an office park near Cumberland. I could catch a MARTA bus about a five minute walk from where I live but….I would ride a bus for 15-20 minutes, take a train south (when my destination is north) one stop, then take a bus north and then change to a local shuttle bus. Total travel time by car is about 25 minutes depending on traffic. Total time by public transport 2.5 hours. So it isn’t an option.
Ben The Independent
October 26th, 2011
12:16 pm
I eagerly started to read this column by Georgia’s resident secular-progressive thinking there would be a chance for a rare agreement with Jay. But I see it’s the same old ‘how bad conservative Georgia is’ versus the likes of those jewelled liberal states such as Massachusetts. Anyway, I tried. Have a good day Jay.
usually lurking
October 26th, 2011
12:17 pm
@C from Marietta – seriously? How often have you changed jobs? Do you suggest moving each time you change jobs? Should I sell my house now so I can move closer to work? How about 2 income households where one person is 2 miles from work and the other person is 16 miles? Split the difference? That is such a lame argument.
(the real) Independent
October 26th, 2011
12:17 pm
I would ride the Marta train to the Braves game but it doesn’t go up 75 and it doesn’t go to the stadium. (To use the shuttle, if they don’t finally shut it down, you have to walk through Underground). Thanks, I will just drive.
Melvin Wexler
October 26th, 2011
12:17 pm
If you goons in Buford, Suwannee, Marietta, Acworth, etc wouldn’t get jobs 30 or more miles away from where you live then we wouldn’t need so many senseless lanes! If you wouldn’t worry so much about having a yard that you never use you could maybe live down the street from your job IN the city and maybe WALK to work and maybe you wouldn’t be so FAT.
WOODSTOCK MIKE
October 26th, 2011
12:18 pm
“Just keep repeating: small government, low taxes, family values/traditional family, religious faith, job creators, second ammendment rights, liberals and socialism; it works everytime in Georgia.”
I assume you would rather things to continue the way they are going now? LOL
Or you believe that existing policies by the Obama admininstration are working. LOL
And family values/religion, man those are terrible things to believe in!!
WOODSTOCK MIKE
October 26th, 2011
12:19 pm
I thought liberals were always in favor of more taxation?? What’s going on here??
I love the HOT lanes
October 26th, 2011
12:35 pm
people are “voting” for the HOT lanes everyday, Sure, a few hundred people show up at a town hall meeting, and a few hundred more have signed an on-line petition, but more and more people are using the lane everyday. I can’t wait to see the numbers when they come out how ridership has increased every week – I see it everyday. I have used them about 8 or 10 times and for less than a cup of coffee I can drive 60mph on the way to work. I ride by all the cars sitting in traffic and wonder what in the world are they are thinking. So a few hundred pay nothing to complain and thousands actually PAY to cast their vote.
Luke
October 26th, 2011
12:42 pm
I hope everyone stays angry! I own a small bussiness and refuse to buy the passes for my fleet. Our tax $ paid for the hot lanes and we pay tolls on top of that? This should make who you vote for in the next election easy…. fu hot lanes!
C Maggitt
October 26th, 2011
12:45 pm
I think its time the Republican rule to end in Ga
Corey
October 26th, 2011
1:00 pm
Woodstock Mike, thanks for helping me make my point. It works everytime. Perplexed are you? Relax. One day you will have your light bulb moment.
Women's Softball Team
October 26th, 2011
1:04 pm
Any of you wise ones ever consider all the taxes that show up on your cell phone bill? We have also already paid for ER and other charges that appear on the bill but we are still charged. This has to be George Bush’s fault!!
indigo
October 26th, 2011
1:05 pm
First you have HOV lanes. An attempt to encourage car pools and cut down on traffic congestion and emissions in the air.If they had taken away another lane from all traffic during rush hour- making two HOV lanes, it may have actually greatly increased car pooling because the gridlock otherwise would have been unbearable. That probably would not have been accepted by the public either: folks want that single occupancy travel.
But how a good idea- to cut down on emissions and to encourage car pools- got changed to the notion that the wealthier citizens should get to move faster on our highways, single occupancy or not, just is almost beyond comprehension. What were they thinking?
Women's Softball Team
October 26th, 2011
1:06 pm
No way Republicans will be in the minority in GA when you have BO at the top of Democratic party.
Women's Softball Team
October 26th, 2011
1:07 pm
Luke:
Does your small business consist of cooking things in your mobile lab?
Marié de la Sweetbottom Plantation
October 26th, 2011
1:12 pm
@I love the HOT lanes – Let ‘em eat cake baby! Let ‘em eat cake! If they can’t afford my Lexus then just please stay the hell out of my way and buy the regular Toyotas. I don’t care if the taxpayers bought the lane in the first place, I’m paying good money to keep them out of it now and Gov. Deal has even gave me loss leader pricing to boot. Y’all be good and let me over in a hurry now, ya’ heah?
SwedeAtlanta
October 26th, 2011
1:13 pm
Re: Women’s Softball Team @ 1:06
Georgians, time and again, vote against their own interests. They have bought into the notion that lower taxes that further restrict government’s ability to do its job, making sure those gay people don’t get married, allowing the carriage of firearms nearly anywhere, cutting funding to education from K through university level, closing their eyes to the traffic and polution problems, closing their eyes to the problems with our infrastructure including water, are just dandy.
If you just say you love Jesus, the 2nd Amendment, hate the fags and wrap yourself in the Murkan flag, all will be just fine and dandy.
Well we are seeing the results of that mentality as the state, regardless of what is done at the federal level, continues to decline. Local decisions, state decisions have as much if not a more profound effect on your life than what is done at the federal leve.
Women's Softball Team
October 26th, 2011
1:24 pm
Looks like swede’s answer is always higher taxes. swedie, the state of georgia has continually increased spending money on K-12 educaton but gotten worse results. As you are probably not savvy to matters of business I will let you in on a little secret. If you are not getting an adequate return on your money then you look for other investments. K-12 funding is definetly not a good investment in current form. How about a little voucher system in this area? Maybe you would just like the American system to follow the Stockholm example where government takes 60% of income and decides best where to spend it since obviously citizens are not capable of making intelligent decisions. I am of the Darwinian camp in which we should let the strongest survive. If you make bad decisions then you live with those bad decisions and not wait for someone to bail you out.
JMS
October 26th, 2011
1:35 pm
Seriously what happened to the big save gas and carpool campaign nonsense…. just goes to prove BIG goverment is all about the $$$ take take take…then take some more! Who ever came up with this brain f@rt should be fired!! I would like to know who much putting up all those camera;s and posts cost, does anyone have an accounting on that!???? Really as you know our tax dollars payed for it!
SwedeAtlanta
October 26th, 2011
1:41 pm
Women’s Softball Team
No, I am not advocating higher taxes. I am simply saying that lower taxes that deprive government of the ability to do their job are not a panacea. We are seeing the results of reduced staffing for police and firefighters. The number of roads in the metro area that need repair is staggering. I could go on and on about the key services that I think we can all agree are core government services that are languishing in this cut, cut, cut mentality. It would be different if the tax cut and service cut mentality was bringing us some jobs.
Why would we need a voucher program? We need to fix the schools but I didn’t need a voucher and got a very very good public education. Granted it wasn’t in Georgia. It was in the Rocky Mountains where people believed in science.
As for your slam at Sweden. First of all I am an American of Swedish descent. Secondly, if you had any understanding of their system you would not be so quick to slam it. First of all they had a banking crisis in the 1990s. Guess what they did? They essentially nationalized the banks and cleaned them out. Their economy is doing very well despite their high taxes. So low taxes do not equal prosperity.
Secondly, they are much more politically aware than Americans. I listen to their politicans and they get into extreme detail on their policies and people vote on a party because of their policies, not a personality.
Thirdly, they have different values than we do. They value the concepts of leisure time, ensuring young parents spend time establishing relationships with their newborns, the idea that everyone should have access to quality health care, no one should fear their golden years because they are going to starve to death or not have somewhere to live.
I would actually say they have much better “family values” than America despite the fact they are largely secular. They contribute, on a per capita basis, more to those less fortunate around the world than the U.S. They have lower child mortality rates. They have greater longevity and based on several studies the people are overall much happier than Americans.
Not everyone shares the value of more, more, more which is what you seem to love.
And lastly, I have run 3 businesses in my life. All were successful and I sold them at a profit. But I don’t have a problem paying a little more in taxes because I have done relatively well for myself.
trudy
October 26th, 2011
1:57 pm
don’t forget that gwinnett county voted down public transportation.. twice.. but we got it anyway
Rubes never get it
October 26th, 2011
2:08 pm
Thanks John, I signed the petition
I love the HOT lanes
October 26th, 2011
2:11 pm
The whole ” we already paid for these lanes” argument is short sighted – do you really think they were paid for back in the day and money hasn’t been spent on them up untill now or that money will not have to be spent on them again. I bet you never used the HOV lanes that you “already paid for”, so now you have a choice to pay more and actually ride in them instead of what you have been doing paying for them and watching over from the clogged lane beside it. The problem with them now is they shouldn’t stop where they do they should go all the way thru ATL, so people can get a 60mph ride all the way downtown – I hoipe they are working to extend them soon.
Try it you will like it…..I mean keep protesting the dollar and a half and take mine – PLEASE.
Corey
October 26th, 2011
2:30 pm
CBO: Agency budgets at lowest levels since 2002
Authorized spending for government agencies fell to its lowest level since 2002 last year and would fail to keep pace with inflation under budget caps adopted during this summer’s debate over the federal debt limit, the director of the Congressional Budget Office said Wednesday. Agency spending would take another dramatic hit if a congressional supercommittee fails to agree on additional savings, triggering $1.2 trillion in automatic spending cuts. Under that scenario, the CBO said, agency budgets would lag behind inflation by as much as 16 percent by 2021, endangering fast-growing programs such as veterans’ health care and Pell college grants. “In addition, current funding for some programs is less than many analysts believe is necessary to address the nation’s needs,” CBO director Douglas Elmendorf said in testimony prepared for delivery. “An example in this category is spending on transportation and other forms of infrastructure.”
idea
October 26th, 2011
3:56 pm
Instead of gas taxes and tolls, why not charge a fee each year based on the number of miles driven on your vehicle? The more you drive the more you pay.
Paddy O
October 26th, 2011
3:57 pm
Interestingly, the party that said gov’t does not work, or do anything well, was simply priming the pump to prepare an obstinant public for when they took over. In NJ, where at least they utilized a modicum of intelligence – installed HOV lanes, which were actually newly created, with federal money, and restricted their use to rush hour periods – the public their protested with such efficiency, that those HOV lanes were eliminated. Eliminating this HOT lane, which is the republican version of class warfare, should not be very hard – all that was installed WAS SIGNAGE. While your at it, ditch the asinine HOV lanes 24 hours a day too.
Paddy O
October 26th, 2011
3:58 pm
idea – that is exactly what the gas excise tax does, no?
Paddy O
October 26th, 2011
4:00 pm
ilove hot lanes – were you in a sorority or fraternity? subsidized by all the other students on campus?
Paddy O
October 26th, 2011
4:02 pm
swede – how power hungry is the swede gov’t? How much do they squander on the global military application? How diverse is sweden? how much crime is in sweden? not comparable.
Paddy O
October 26th, 2011
4:04 pm
swede is one of those liberal commies, who really thinks gov’t does a good job. Why doesn’t he tell us about he Colorado football team & its use of prostitutes to woo football prospects. wait, not prostitutes, bimbo co-eds.
Women's Softball Team
October 26th, 2011
4:17 pm
Swede:
If you don’t feel you pay enough in taxes then you can send your donation to the US Treasury at any point. Your problem is you don’t think others pay enough in taxes. Worry about your own situation and don’t try to manage others.
Dan
October 26th, 2011
4:22 pm
They were idiotic when they put them in, obstensively for the Olympics with federal money if I remember correctly. They don’t help conjestion or the evironment but the pols can claim they are an evironmentally postitive move. and this new toll idea shows absolutely zero foresight and is bound to be a huge waste of money, but that is what gov does best.
John Adams
October 26th, 2011
4:30 pm
Jim, I think you mean the state tax on motor fuels, not the federal tax — that is as changable as Atlanta weather. Then of course there’s the 4% state tax on motor fuel sales.
I say get rid of the gas taxes and just put up tolls on pretty much every road leading into Georgia, as well as some internally on the interstates (especially on 400 OTP).
It’s either that, or we start charging for mileage. Ane won’t THAT be a record-keeping nightmare!
I love the HOT lanes
October 26th, 2011
4:32 pm
Paddy O – no S or F for me. Do you ever pay to get into a National or State Park that you already paid for, is that right for us to have to pay since we already paid for them once. I think they call them user fees.
Mighty Righty
October 26th, 2011
4:51 pm
I see now it has come out that the WSO protesters are managed, run and piad by former ACORN “community organisers”. Isn’t that just great. No wonder Obamination and his lock step brown shirts won’t critisise these losers. Millions in damages to public facilities, trash, filth, desease, drugs, lawlesness and public indencecy, everything the looney left loves.
middleground
October 26th, 2011
9:21 pm
More people will leave Atlanta and take their jobs with them….
Repbulicans have brought us first place in bank failures, home foreclosures, failing schools, Public Private Partnerships (lake reservoirs turned into developments) CAPCOS, HB-87 which was designed to fail on prupose because those from Hall County need their welfare slaves for their businesses. Corruption in Gwinnett, Corruption in too many counties as commissioners are on the take………..its time for my beloved Georgia to clean house and kick everyone out………of both parties.
PeachPassSucks
October 26th, 2011
10:02 pm
@I love the HOT lanes: Wrong analogy. You don’t go to a state park every day. Plus they weren’t free in the 1st place. Now if the government can turn a free interstate lane to a toll lane, they can turn 2 next time, then your drive way even. Enjoy it while you can, as you pay the toll to pass by people who have spines and won’t submit to this corrupt government. BTW you really sound familiar…. I almost feel like you work for SRTA
Schrodinger's cat
October 27th, 2011
1:10 am
GREAT article Jay!!
Hello from down under by the way
sr citizen dawg
October 27th, 2011
12:18 pm
first the 400 fiasco………continuing the tolls after the date it was promised to end. now this mess. Can state government do anything right ?
keep on
October 27th, 2011
3:56 pm
sheeple keep electing these crooks who then hand over taxpayer millions to connected developers and road builders—it never ends.
ATLien
October 27th, 2011
4:42 pm
HATE IT!
Don
October 31st, 2011
10:37 am
Lets do the math….$16B for 285 lane miles of HOT/HOV lanes over 10 years with an average trip of about 15 miles per trip works out to about $100 per commuter PER DAY. What a deal…
Keep Up the Good Fight!
October 31st, 2011
11:11 am
:-&