Ga. legislators succumbing to rainmakers’ spiel
Back in the old days, a breed known as “rainmakers” would travel rural, unsophisticated areas of the country promising that — for an upfront fee of course — they could bring rain to drought-stricken farmland. If you read Sunday’s story by the AJC’s James Salzer, you might come to the conclusion that the breed has never gone away entirely. It has merely changed its sales pitch.
As Salzer reports, out-of-state companies have come to Georgia pitching what they call CAPCOs. It works like this:
1.) Thanks to a new law, insurance companies are given the right to contribute up to $125 million to private CAPCOs that otherwise would have been paid to the state. (The insurance companies are later repaid a share of that $125 million as an inducement to participate).
2.) CAPCO operators — the people pushing the plan in Georgia — use the $125 million to invest in local small businesses. They get paid management fees for handling the money. Even though it’s not their capital at risk, they get whatever profit the investment produces. In the end, they even get to keep the $125 million investment capital.
3.) By funneling state revenue into the hands of private investors, the state supposedly gets jobs and investment but no share of the profit. The jobs, however, are notoriously difficult to count. And as Salzer recounts, several states have tried the CAPCO approach, often producing more disappointment than employment:
“If they sold deals like this to naive little old ladies, they would go to prison,” said Republican state Sen. Glenn Grothman of Wisconsin, where a similar program has drawn criticism. “I don’t know what should happen to you if you sell deals like this to naive legislators.”
… Julia Sass Rubin, an associate public policy professor at Rutgers University and a leading critic of the CAPCO model, said states have much more cost-efficient ways to invest in small businesses to create jobs.
“The CAPCO is the classic $200 million toilet,” she said. “You don’t ask, ‘Does it flush?’ You ask, ‘Why did you pay $200 million for a toilet?’ ”
CAPCO promoters have an advocate in state Rep. Ben Harbin of Augusta, one of the more influential members of the House. The chief Georgia lobbyist for the plan, former state senator Pete Robinson, is a longtime friend of Gov. Nathan Deal and served on Deal’s transition team. Deal also backs the CAPCO approach.
The plan passed the state House on the next-to-last day of the 2011 session. When the Legislature reconvenes in January, it will be one Senate vote away from Deal’s signature.
Once that happens, the rains will start falling from the heavens, and the crops will rise green and lush from the moist Georgia earth. Or so we’re promised.
– Jay Bookman
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342 comments Add your comment
SoGaVet
October 24th, 2011
8:22 am
first?
Guy Incognito
October 24th, 2011
8:24 am
Morning Jay, and everyone. trust that WI Badger. This sounds like a scheme
Keep Up the Good Fight!
October 24th, 2011
8:24 am
The “miracles” of private capital systems saving our country and economy and the stupidity of those believing in the cure-all medicine being sold have apparently hitched their rube wagon to the Republicans……. No wonder there is a bump at the border. The turnip hits the road here!
stands for decibels
October 24th, 2011
8:28 am
From the linked piece:
“I don’t know what should happen to you if you sell deals like this to naive legislators.”
oooh, I do! I do!
Jimmy62
October 24th, 2011
8:32 am
Interestingly, if you tried to pull off most left wing economics in actual businesses, you’d go to jail, too. And frankly, plenty of ‘em should be in jail for flushing far more than $200 million down the toilet. Solyndra alone was more than twice this amount, given to a company that was already failing, with even people within the White House thinking it was a bad idea. But they still wasted half a billion on that toilet. Yet no complaint for Jay. Waste doesn’t matter unless you can make a Republican look bad, huh? I’ve never heard of CAPCO so I will do my own research rather than depend on Jay’s bias. I can guarantee if it looks like a waste I will bitch about it. But then I will bitch about all waste, not just waste from one side.
Jay
October 24th, 2011
8:36 am
Is there ANYTHING that state or local officials can do that can’t be made acceptable by the mere mention of the magic word “Obama”?
Seriously.
Common Sense
October 24th, 2011
8:40 am
The only surprise here is that Jay is against it.
Because it’s no surprise that a state government run by “democrats turned republicans” would support this sort of plan.
People had a choice last year. This plan would have gotten no where under Governor John Monds.
Georgia is getting what they deserved for only being willing to vote for someone that “can win”.
Paul
October 24th, 2011
8:40 am
““I don’t know what should happen to you if you sell deals like this to naive legislators.”
Quiz of the day: what’s the difference between a ‘naive’ legislator and a stupid legislator?
Jay
“Is there ANYTHING that state or local officials can do that can’t be made acceptable by the mere mention of the word “Obama”?
Seriously.”
Seriously?
Nope.
Some people were never released from Pavlov’s lab -
carlosgvv
October 24th, 2011
8:41 am
It takes a special mindset to be a Georgia Republican politician. You have to sell yourself totally to Big Business and do what they tell you when they tell you. So, when companies come to Georgia representing Business, it’s no wonder that most Republican politicians will believe what they are told and act accordingly. It would be interesting to know how many Democatric politicians are falling for this scheme.
carlosgvv
October 24th, 2011
8:44 am
Jay – 8:36
Of course you know that to most Republican voters, Obama is that black African Muslim Socialist who is currently in the White House and is doing his best to completely ruin America. The brainwashed Republican voters believe anything their elected officials tell them.
Karl Rove's Paymaster General
October 24th, 2011
8:45 am
Solyndra alone
13 minutes? You guys are slipping. No bonus for you this week.
Granny Godzilla
October 24th, 2011
8:46 am
We’re number last!
We’re number last!
stands for decibels
October 24th, 2011
8:47 am
I’ve never heard of CAPCO so I will do my own research rather than depend on Jay’s bias.
door, ass, et cetera.
Thomas
October 24th, 2011
8:49 am
Jay- The issue with your writing style is that you consistently point out only the negatives on any issue you are against. I read the AJC article I think yesterday on CAPCO and also would tend to be against it but it is not the economic deal from hell. Further, I think I also read in the AJC that another Asian- Chine or Korean I think- entity is locating to Metro Atlanta and providing a platform for jobs.
The difference between you and say a Reuters or Bloomber editiorialist is that they will demonstrate both sides and come to a conclusion. There was a very intellectual and factual write up on Cains 9-9-9 demonstrating that yes it is regressive and “will not work” but it is at least a step towards economic and tax reform. The editorialist came up with a for instance 14-20-14 or something to that effect.
Anyway- just a thought.
Jay
October 24th, 2011
8:49 am
Independent research is encouraged, and I hope Jimmy reports his findings here.
Jay
October 24th, 2011
8:52 am
thomas, Cain’s 9-9-9 plan cannot be “regressive and will not work” AND a step toward economic and tax reform.
If it won’t work, if it is regressive, it is not a step forward. Those are contradictions in terms.
Abe Froman
October 24th, 2011
8:52 am
So one of your arguments against these investments is that it is almost impossible to tell which jobs have been ‘created or saved’. Interesting…….
larry
October 24th, 2011
8:54 am
But…………But ……this has got to be part of Obama’s jobs plan.
Just thought i would go ahead and throw that out there.
arnold
October 24th, 2011
8:54 am
We already know how financially sound of mind the Governor is. Just look at his business history. No wonder he is for this deal.
AmVet
October 24th, 2011
8:55 am
Apparently, Wisconsin got bilked, in this somewhat sophisticated shell game, to the tune of over $8,200,000.00. No wonder Dirty Deal and his dirty gang are drooling over it…
Reporters were only able to document 132 jobs that Wilshire investments had a hand in creating in Wi.
And critics of the program say it’s a scam that has cost other states $2 billion over two decades.
Other states, like Colorado, Texas and Florida, have had problems with their programs where state leaders have complained they’ve spent hundreds of millions but not seen any real proof that jobs were created. Some critics say it’s difficult to determine what jobs CAPCOs have created because they could have been created anyway or they are part-time or temporary jobs.
States like Maryland have created programs that invest in small businesses without going through CAPCOs so that the state can keep the profit and principal generated by the investments.
Harbin and CAPCO officials say they have learned from mistakes in other states and won’t repeat them in Georgia. For example, the bill would require at least 50 percent of the money to be invested within four years to prevent the CAPCO from sitting on the funding, and more than one-third of the money would have to be invested before the state grants tax credits.
Under the Georgia bill, CAPCOs wouldn’t have to guarantee if jobs are created, but they will have to report where the money is being invested and whether the companies are seeing job growth.
Long live corporate welfare!
And sleazy, back scratching, self-serving, local politicians…
MountainMan
October 24th, 2011
8:55 am
If CAPCO’s are so great, why do they need government funding? You don’t see private money being thrown down ratholes.
stands for decibels
October 24th, 2011
8:56 am
If it won’t work, if it is regressive, it is not a step forward. Those are contradictions in terms.
But can’t you say it *nicely* so that the Cain fans’ widdle feefees aren’t hurted, Jay?
deegee
October 24th, 2011
8:56 am
Don’t we already have a small business administration? Don’t we taxpayers already pay a bureaucracy to lend money to small businesses? Why should Nathan Deal be able to circumvent the system in order to create a money funnel for his cronies?
Stevie Ray
October 24th, 2011
8:57 am
I submit that sans actual W-2’s as evidence, no government sponsored jobs plan (Obama’s Stimulus 1&2 or this crap) can credibly be acknowledged to create jobs.
If I understand this, the insurance companies who pay tax on all premiums paid by Georgia insureds can redirect this premium to these CAPCO (what does that stand for anyway?) facilities who “invest” in enhancing our agriculture business. No surprise here. Corruptresentatives on both sides of aisle can only be counted on for waste and BS. Perhaps some of you who want high earners to pay more in taxes can understand why the pushback is so strong.
For anyone to suggest the Republican’s have a corner on the “anything for re-election” style of governing, I will match any of you case to case. Take either side…
USMC
October 24th, 2011
8:58 am
“Back in the old days, a breed known as “rainmakers” would travel rural, unsophisticated areas of the country promising that — for an upfront fee of course — they could bring rain to drought-stricken farmland.”–Jay
It sounds like Jay is using from his own “stash”. You were pushing pretty hard for Legalization…
Rainmakers???? Come on Jay, you are starting to sound like the irresponsible kids and socialists down at Occupy Wall Street.
stands for decibels
October 24th, 2011
8:58 am
You don’t see private money being thrown down ratholes.
It’s not often I get to say this, but clearly MountainMan has never worked in private industry.
SoGaVet
October 24th, 2011
8:59 am
“So one of your arguments against these investments is that it is almost impossible to tell which jobs have been ‘created or saved’.
Simple fix for this issue – it’s called means testing. When the legislature creates a piece of legislation like this one – or for that matter ANY legislation that offers something in exchange for tax dollars, dubious or otherwise – why not attach a fiscal note an let the proof be in the pudding.
Either it does what it’s purported to do or it doesn’t.
Waheema
October 24th, 2011
9:00 am
Jay is only concerned about “difficult to count” jobs when they are not caused by one of Obama’s failed stimulus plans.
MountainMan
October 24th, 2011
9:02 am
At least when the rats are fed with private money, it doesn’t effect me.
DannyX
October 24th, 2011
9:02 am
Speaking of rainmaker spells, I see Lake Lanier is near historic lows again, Deal better get to work and schedule another Pray For Rain.
Stevie Ray
October 24th, 2011
9:03 am
They say Democracy is simply a process where voters elect the next one to place the blame. I totally support our capitalist, democratic republic but the system is designed for failure at the legislative level. Kinda like the legal conflicts of interest the banks, investment houses, and insurers enjoyed with the repeal of psot depression legislation to keep a repeat from occuring.
If the influence money keeps flowing as it is, perhaps we should move toward national referendums on the issues (ie abortion, taxes, support of foreign campaigns et al) where these idiots can’t be trusted. I do have full confidence in them naming and renaming post offices al la Hillary Clintons most notable work in Congress..
Jay
October 24th, 2011
9:03 am
You don’t see private money being thrown down ratholes.
The best rebuttal to that claim is the $1 billion in private money invested and lost in Solyndra.
In addition, as the Salzer story suggests, Georgia legislators have been resistant to the idea of actually trying to document the economic impact of all their giveaway programs.
It’s almost as if they don’t want to know….
larry
October 24th, 2011
9:04 am
Im not suprised that Deal is in favor of this. Makes me wonder what percentage he will get out of the deal.
Meanwhile, the pawn and porn king of California is not happy with his purchase of the former ” Wilder Outdoors” . I went in there the other day and looked around. Looked like a normal pawn shop. But people hasnt exactly been beating down the door to get into the place. The guy behind the counter said he’s not real happy with the deal. I just shook my head. The man should have known better.
MountainMan
October 24th, 2011
9:06 am
Jay,
Does the public care about $ 1 billion in private lost on Solyndra? No, but we do care about the $500 million of public money lost.
Daedalus
October 24th, 2011
9:07 am
Sounds like a stupid idea; thus its a no-brainer under the Gold Dome.
This CRAPALO-CO thing will sail through the legislature and be signed into law faster than you can buy beer on Sunday.
Peter
October 24th, 2011
9:08 am
Well we know Deal lied about facing bankruptcy before the election, this will be a way to make his money back….. kind of on the same mold as Sonny Perdue.
Gosh when will a Republican step up and do the ” Right Thing ” for Georgia ?
I hope all the Republican commuters on 75 are having fun in the morning and evening !
sam
October 24th, 2011
9:10 am
i would like to offer my services managing this money…can the state direct deposit the $125M today?
Jay
October 24th, 2011
9:11 am
But that wasn’t your original point, now was it, Mountain Man.
Your original claim was that you don’t see private money sent down a rathole. And that is clearly wrong, because in the Solyndra case twice as much private money was lost.
I should also note that the Chinese government has invested some $30 billion in solar-power startups, and as a result are dominating that industry globally.
stands for decibels
October 24th, 2011
9:11 am
I’d like to know of this Galtian paradise might be, that MM speaks of, where private business’ malfeasance and/or incompetence has no effect on the lives of others.
stands for decibels
October 24th, 2011
9:12 am
can the state direct deposit the $125M today?
hey, I can do it for 1/10 the cost. for realz!
Daedalus
October 24th, 2011
9:13 am
If you think the loss of private money in investments doesn’t affect you; then you are drinking way too much tea. Remember the mortgage and stock-market meltdowns? That was a lot of private money lost (of course, you will likely blame Obama for all of that) with a huge effect on anyone who ever hoped to retire on stock or real estate investments.
Believing everything you are told, whether from a public official or private banker or hedge-fund manager, is a recipe for disaster.
Think McFly, think!
AmVet
October 24th, 2011
9:13 am
Glenn Grothman (R-West Bend): “It was a horrible bill,” he said at a legislative hearing in May. “I did vote for the bill, and I regret it.” He said the CAPCO program had “virtually no safeguards.”
Or Rep. Bob Ziegelbauer, an independent from Manitowoc: “It probably didn’t get the scrutiny it deserved. The whole CAPCO model to me is one of just giving the taxpayer dollars away to private ownership to be invested privately. And I don’t see any reason to do that.”
The firm in Wisconsin responsible for creating good jobs actually plowed half the money right back into their own parent company.
Imagine that. No safeguards, no scrutiny, no accountability.
This being on a much smaller scale, but going back about three years now, that all sounds kind of familiar, huh?
We live in the new America – the one with seemingly endless, legalized corporate thievery…
stands for decibels
October 24th, 2011
9:14 am
Anyhow, love to learn more about the Galtian Overlords’ Invisible Handjob (jm? is your iPad not turnin’ over this morning?) but this private industry producer’s gotta go produce. Later, kids.
Guy Incognito
October 24th, 2011
9:20 am
“I should also note that the Chinese government has invested some $30 billion in solar-power startups, and as a result are dominating that industry globally.”
Well, I’m sure that their public employee unions will get a healthy portion of those profits………oh wait
ITS ALL BUSHS FAULT
October 24th, 2011
9:20 am
If GA republicans were not so commited to there hate agenda and do a little research maybe people like Sonny, Nate and Johhny would not be ripping off the rest of us…..losers……OBAMA 2012……
Don't Tread
October 24th, 2011
9:22 am
CAPCO is a travesty! But hey, that half-billion dollars “invested” in Solyndra – nothing to see here, move along.
1811/0311
October 24th, 2011
9:23 am
Two interesting headlines:
“Islamist party poised to win Tunisian vote…”
“Libya’s liberation: interim ruler unveils more radical than expected plans for Islamic law”
TaxPayer
October 24th, 2011
9:23 am
Clearly, the key to this program’s success is that it is supported by Republicans, free of any association with Democrats, in particular, Obama, not labeled as a stimulus and instead likely has a Luntz-approved name that has been shown to stimulate the frontal lobes of Republicans. And of course, the fact that it is purported to be a success in Texas is more than sufficient reason to buy into it without any other supporting evidence, positive or otherwise. Anyway, how does one go about signing up to be either a CAPCO or a recipient of said funds. If you can’t beat ‘em, join in on the screwing of others. It’s the Amurican way and Republicans have perfected it to the point of it being an artform. In fact, I expect to hear the likes of Limbaugh and Boortz and Hannity coming out in defense of this program at the appropriate time, should it become necessary as a result of any negative publicity brought on by shedding light on the matter.
Soothsayer
October 24th, 2011
9:24 am
Fast forward 80 years and we have protestors setting up camp in a public square, not far from where the same exact banks that caused the Great Depression have created the Greater Depression. The biggest Wall Street banks have gotten bigger. The Federal Reserve, in collusion with the Wall Street banks, has engineered a two year stock market rally, while the average American has seen their wages decline, food and energy prices soar, home prices fall, and banks paying them .1% on their savings. Anger and disillusionment continue to build in this country like a volcano preparing to blow. Some people are angry at Washington politicians. Some are angry at Wall Street. Others aren’t sure who to be angry at. The evil oligarchy of bankers, corporate titans, and bought off Washington politicians that control the agenda and mainstream media, continue to scorn, ridicule and denigrate the middle class of America. Their financial engineering is failing. They’ve gone too far. The debt accumulation is unsustainable. The mood of the country has darkened and talk of revolution and the shadow of impending violence is growing.
——————————————————————————
“Thus did a handful of rapacious citizens come to control all that was worth controlling in America. Thus was the savage and stupid and entirely inappropriate and unnecessary and humorless American class system created. Honest, industrious, peaceful citizens were classed as bloodsuckers, if they asked to be paid a living wage. And they saw that praise was reserved henceforth for those who devised means of getting paid enormously for committing crimes against which no laws had been passed. Thus the American dream turned belly up, turned green, bobbed to the scummy surface of cupidity unlimited, filled with gas, went bang in the noonday sun.”
― Kurt Vonnegut, God Bless You, Mr. Rosewater
Bosch
October 24th, 2011
9:25 am
Wow, the GA legislators are on a roll with the good idea laws — I read about this, right after reading about how people can get out of foreclosure by using their 401ks!
The stoopids just keep on coming, and the people of GA actually vote for these merry band of morons.
Soothsayer
October 24th, 2011
9:30 am
Savers Protect Your Deposits From Bankrupting Banks and Quantitative Inflation
The Euro-zone continues to teeter over the edge of the financial abyss as bankrupting countries that cannot print Euro’s threaten the collapse of its banking system that would would soon collapse the whole global banking system in a matter of hours as electronic bank runs sweep across the worlds financial system resulting in trillions of dollars worth of deposits being withdrawn in a matter of hours and thereby collapsing first the Euro-zone and then within 24 hours the UK, USA and Asia along with it.
If you think your money is “safe” in a bank, you are sorely mistaken.
Butch Cassidy
October 24th, 2011
9:30 am
Bosch – ” right after reading about how people can get out of foreclosure by using their 401ks!”
Yeah, I saw that to. Why all the hoops, folks could just eliminate the middleman by picking out their favorite location on the street and move directly into their cardboard box. Afterall, if you’re going to use your retirment funds to pay your mortgage, your going to end up there anyway.
hobby
October 24th, 2011
9:31 am
you won’t hear Cain blamming anything on his predessesors—he’ll just fix the problems
1811/0311
October 24th, 2011
9:32 am
“By funneling state revenue into the hands of private investors, the state supposedly gets jobs and investment but no share of the profit. The jobs, however, are notoriously difficult to count.”
Hummmmm ………….. Jay ……….. that sounds just like Obama’s stimulus plans but you seem to like that.
jm
October 24th, 2011
9:32 am
“We simply should not countenance a residential mortgage market, the largest part of our capital market, dominated by so-called government-sponsored enterprises,” Mr. Volcker said in his speech. “The financial breakdown was in fact triggered by extremely lax, government-tolerated underwriting standards, an important ingredient in the housing bubble.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/23/business/volckers-advice-for-more-financial-reform.html?_r=1
Butch Cassidy
October 24th, 2011
9:33 am
hobby – “you won’t hear Cain blamming anything on his predessesors—he’ll just fix the problems”
I’m assuming you mean the list of chores around his house. Afterall, if you plan on alienating most of the women in this country by promising to make abortion illegal, you will NEVER be elected POTUS.
Stevie Ray
October 24th, 2011
9:33 am
Can anyone counter the study done by the GAO in 2008 that suggested that based on data obtained by staffers of both parties that indicated that DC numbskulls waste up to $1 trillion dollars annually just in Medicare/Medicaid waste and IRS inefficencies? Every body refers to the idea that the M/M’s spend much more on healthcare per person than insurers. Here are a couple verifiable facts: First, the US spends $400 per person on healthcare administration costs and insurance which is more than any other industrialized nations. Second, unlike private insurers who must meet solvency requirements by each state (cash and investments on hand) unlike reliance on future taxpayers liabilities) which easily accounts for the difference. Each state gets it’s bread buttered. Additionally, if we cut the waste out of this, we could afford to provide healthcare to those in need…
Butch Cassidy
October 24th, 2011
9:35 am
Stevie Ray – ” Additionally, if we cut the waste out of this, we could afford to provide healthcare to those in need…”
Therein lies the problem. One mans waste is another mans kickback.
JB
October 24th, 2011
9:38 am
Off subject, but shocks me that Obama and the State Dept. are surprised that the elections in this little country that had the first Arab spring voted to have the Muslim Brotherhood run the government. Duh, really. It’ll be a domino effect. They all will.It’s all they know, and it ain’t good for the USA.
Bosch
October 24th, 2011
9:38 am
“if we cut the waste out of this, we could afford to provide healthcare to those in need”
Everyone NEEDS healthcare.
carlosgvv
October 24th, 2011
9:39 am
1811/0311 – 9:23
Soothsayer – 9:24
Two frightening observations which strongly suggest we are heading towards an apocalypse. The only question seems to be are we inching towards it or on a runaway train speeding towards it.
Bosch
October 24th, 2011
9:39 am
JB,
Yes, democracy works that way.
kayaker 71
October 24th, 2011
9:40 am
Facts on Government Motors:
61% owned by the US Govt
17.5% owned by the UAW
9.8% owned by Canada
9.8% owned by bond holders from the old GM
Grand total of 98%.
Bailout money 8.1 Billion paid off ahead of schedule and with interest.
Even though Ed Whitacre states in all of the TV ads that GM is now solvent and making a profit, and has paid off the bail out money, they are still in debt to the Government for 49.1B dollars in TARP money which GM converted to common stock, ie the 61% owned by Bozo.
This company is far from solvent and is still in the tank financially. It’s woes are still there, but for all too few to see. GM employes nearly 210,000 people all over the world. How long can this house of cards last?
Adam
October 24th, 2011
9:40 am
MAKE IT RAIN!!!
Ok, I honestly don’t have anything substantive to add. But thought I’d throw in that little “make it rain” thing.
Carry on….
Jay
October 24th, 2011
9:41 am
In the first place, Stevie, I believe you misrepresent the study. You provide no link, but I imagine you’re referring to this one:
http://bit.ly/q4GPbI
It reports that the federal government spent a total of $808 billion on health care in 2007, which makes it rather difficult to believe that it wastes up to $1 trillion a year on those programs.
bman
October 24th, 2011
9:41 am
I’m trying to remember when and where I have heard of CAPCO. I will have to read more about it, but I thought it had been around for a long time?
The only thing that is surprising is that all of a sudden it’s not okay for politicians to flush money down the toilet…
bman
October 24th, 2011
9:43 am
Kayaker…I was unaware that the UAW had 17.5% of GM. Are you sure that’s correct? That’s a huge stake!
Jay
October 24th, 2011
9:47 am
Kayaker, the government’s ownership stake in GM is now down to 26 percent, not the 61 percent you list in your “facts.” I suspect the rest of your post is similarly accurate.
Paul
October 24th, 2011
9:48 am
Jay
“It reports that the federal government spent a total of $808 billion on health care in 2007, which makes it rather difficult to believe that it wastes up to $1 trillion a year on those programs.”
The $808 billion was spent on health care.
Another $1 trillion was spent on waste.
It’s a classic example of what happens when government tries to do stuff that private industry should do.
Jack
October 24th, 2011
9:50 am
Cain and capital. Two words that really, really distress Bookman.
Jm
October 24th, 2011
9:52 am
Jay, care to address Volker’s comments?
Or is an Obama revered former Federal Reserve governor a liar also?
You disappeared during our Fannie Freddie discussions last week. I’d normally accept that as a concession but I think you prefer denying the truth on the GSE’s and congress.
Jay
October 24th, 2011
9:54 am
which volcker comments, jm?
kayaker 71
October 24th, 2011
9:55 am
bman,
Bozo and his cronies dressed it up when the money was given to GM. They designated that a 17.1% stake in the company would reside in UAW’s “health care division” which is just a ruse. They still own a 17.1% stake. The part that so disturbing and that no one mentions, is that Whitacre toots his horn and states that GM has paid off it’s “loans” when they are still 49.1B in the tank to the US Govt, which, in it’s own great wisdom is not so good at running car companies. GM still has not shown a profit since the TARP money and the bailout money was given to them. It ends up that the US Govt, by it’s 61% stake in the company is in a pretty precarious place in this agreement, especially with all of the employees that GM has. Let’s hope that they run this better than the post office or we are looking at some pretty steep bills in the future.
getalife
October 24th, 2011
9:57 am
kay,
Thanks to our President we still have a auto industry for you to cry about.
Stevie Ray
October 24th, 2011
9:58 am
Butch: Right on!
BOSCH; AGREED
Jay: Here is the link and healthcare and IRS inefficiences but in fairness those were only two of the 10 totalling $1 trillion. My bad for suggesting otherwise. If the total HC spending is $808 bln, then the 185 bln suggested waste represents 23% waste. IRS is much worse.
Ergo, lets say that the number is actually 125 bln…are you suggesting there is no waste in government spending to either of these two veins?
http://www.rd.com/money/the-government-is-wasting-your-tax-dollars/
AmVet
October 24th, 2011
9:59 am
Soothsayer that entire article you linked at 9:24 is one of the best that I have read in a very long time.
In a litany of damning evidence, this line really stands out…
The evil oligarchy of bankers, corporate titans, and bought off Washington politicians that control the agenda and mainstream media, continue to scorn, ridicule and denigrate the middle class of America.
Though sleazy, at least I can understand their self-serving positions.
But these poor working class schmoe neo-cons??? Who have gotten absolutely hammered for four decades??? And who insanely pretend that they haven’t???
Their self-destructiveness makes NO sense.
The only “reason” that I can see is that they have been so successfully programmed to hate everything and everybody non-Republican, that they now gleefully commit economic hari kari.
Just to show those loathed liberals, damn hippies and lazy punks that they are capable of such insanity…
Jm
October 24th, 2011
10:01 am
Jay, ones at the 9:32 post
1811/0311
October 24th, 2011
10:02 am
carlosgvv :
Concerning my 9:23 I believe it is the biggest threat facing the world today but the libs. just keep turning a blind eye.
Regarding this thread it seems as though Jay likes national stimulus plans but not state ones.
Maybe he will explain why.
Hard Earned Tax Dollars
October 24th, 2011
10:03 am
The chief Georgia lobbyist for the plan, former state senator Pete Robinson, is a longtime friend of Gov. Nathan Deal and served on Deal’s transition team. Deal also backs the CAPCO approach.
Everyone knows that this is just another business venture for our Dear Governor Deal! He seems to have no sense of direction when it comes to making bad business decisions whether they are personal or governmental. Even though this system has failed in several states he wants to attempt to make the Republican Party appear as if they have come up with a solution to our states’ extremely high unemployment rate. Governor please do not waste my hard earned tax dollars on this bogus no accountablility plan!
Stevie Ray
October 24th, 2011
10:04 am
Jay,
Your link predicably, did not include any audit data (if even completed) on waste….this is the bogus data set that congress makes decisions based upon. Perhaps an independent audit would provide data that may change some of the proposals to include efforts to find waste….perhaps on a Qui Tam basis???
1811/0311
October 24th, 2011
10:04 am
“Just to show those loathed liberals, damn hippies and lazy punks that they are capable of such insanity…”
Yep ………….. people you would be crazy to EVER hire.
kayaker 71
October 24th, 2011
10:05 am
Bookman,
Here we go again. Look up FactCheck.org under GM and find out the truth. The 61% is a true figure, according to your precious FactCheck. The real kicker is that GM has been paying off some of their TARP obligation with unspent TARP funds. In other words they are paying off their TARP obligation with TARP funds that they should never have gotten in the first place. This Bozononics is just the thing we need to put this company into solvency. Where did you get the 26% figure?
TaxPayer
October 24th, 2011
10:05 am
Did someone say “government ownership?” Does AIG ring a bell.
Buck Hayek
October 24th, 2011
10:06 am
Republicans have no right to complain about Fannie and Freddie.
The GSE Reform Act of 2005 would have completely deprived FNM/FRE of new investment capital when it passed (HR 1461). The Bushpigs killed it. Bush said he wanted to keep subprime mortgages rolling.
Now Treasury is stuck with backing the implied guarantee of GSE bonds for years.
Jay
October 24th, 2011
10:08 am
Kayaker today: “GM still has not shown a profit since the TARP money and the bailout money…
New York Times, in February:
DETROIT — General Motors, which nearly collapsed from the weight of its debts two years ago before reorganizing in a government-sponsored bankruptcy, said on Thursday that it earned $4.7 billion in 2010, the most in more than a decade.
GM’s profit-making ways have continued into 2011. It made $2.5 billion in the second quarter of 2011 alone, and Chevy just announced that it sold more cars in the third quarter than at any point in its history.
Kayaker, you have repeatedly proved to pay no attention whatsoever to facts, posting stuff time and time again that has no basis in reality. As a result, I’m not even going to bother to correct or ever read what you post any longer.
You have forfeited all credibility.
getalife
October 24th, 2011
10:09 am
“You have forfeited all credibility.”
Agreed.
Jm
October 24th, 2011
10:09 am
Buck 10:06
Nice revisionist history there. You got it backwards
TruthBe
October 24th, 2011
10:10 am
Liberals perverts and their corrupt lack of morals, anti-patriotism, anti-GOD are the real problems of this Country. Just look at this loser of a president Obama that will do ANYTHING to be re-elected. Liberals progressive’s corruption of politics and their partners in crime the media are destroying this Country today. Jay you and your cronies at the ajc have media blood on your hands.
1811/0311
October 24th, 2011
10:11 am
“Obama: ‘I’d like to work my way around Congress’ … ”
“OBAMA TO SIDESTEP CONGRESS”
bman
October 24th, 2011
10:12 am
kayaker..I do know that the Gov’t needs to sell their stake in GM @50+ per share to break even. It seems I remember reading where we were going to actually make money on this deal….
TaxPayer
October 24th, 2011
10:12 am
I sure hope that the folks running these CAPCO’s are not stupid enough to loan millions to folks like Tom Graves.
Jay
October 24th, 2011
10:12 am
No, kayaker, that 61 percent is NOT a “true figure.”
It used to be, once upon a time. But the government has since sold off most of its stake. Not that you would care about actual facts in the first place.
Jm
October 24th, 2011
10:13 am
What’s with Hillary’s new hairdo?
Can’t figure it out. Very 60’sish….
getalife
October 24th, 2011
10:14 am
scout,
The gop obstructed everything but socialism for the banks.
Jay wrote about it but the rest of corporate media ignore it and give your failed party a free pass .
AmVet
October 24th, 2011
10:15 am
Corporal, wake up and look around,
They ain’t hiring your neighbors and your sanctified church going buddies, either.
Actual unemployment is really somewhere near 23%.
And only the biggest bullsh*tters around, like you, contend that that has had no effect on Republican families, neighborhoods and communities.
Just to a man and woman, ALL of those lazy, don’t want to work, criminal protesters, right?
Your ideology of ignorance and your twisted religion of hate combined, have become poisons in the United States of America…
Jm
October 24th, 2011
10:16 am
GM
Just some good government socialism…..
getalife
October 24th, 2011
10:17 am
I would add all cons lost credibility here a long time ago.
We do find them laughable now and fun to engage.
Jm
October 24th, 2011
10:19 am
And Amvet blames the GOP for 26% unemployment when for 2 years Dems controlled EVERYTHING
and…. So I stopped reading
Generation$crewed
October 24th, 2011
10:19 am
Jm
October 24th, 2011
10:16 am
picking winners and losers is good…
especially when it is ones chosen party who is doing the picking….
wonder what Ford’s profits would be if they had taken as much money as GM did?
TaxPayer
October 24th, 2011
10:19 am
If you Republicans are worried about your investments in GM, you should consider buying some credit default swaps from AIG to cover your bets. They’re backed by the full faith of 1.5 billion government-owned shares of AIG.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
October 24th, 2011
10:20 am
Scout is back to whine about Obama acting by the Executive Branch…funny, I don’t hear much from Scout when Republicans used regulations to try to stop abortions or when Republicans vow to use executive orders to stop Obamacare….. Wonder why that is? Perhaps it again lies in the fact that hatred surpasses all ability to think rationally for the Box 23/26 birthers and crazies
Bosch
October 24th, 2011
10:20 am
kayaker,
In other words, you are using OLD data and trying to pass it off as relevant today in the now in vain just to try to score cheap shots at Obama. That’s ridiculous and your bs will be called out every single time (well, maybe not now since Bookman has decided to ignore you).
getalife
October 24th, 2011
10:21 am
With the gop cowardly not voting on the President’s job bill, we have joined Europe on austerity only.
This will prolong our recession and the gop are to blame.
So, lets stop the mindless attacks on our President on our economy.
It is what you cons wanted.
1811/0311
October 24th, 2011
10:22 am
AmVet:
A couple of quick points:
1) Whatever the true % is for unemployment, it’s basically (with a few exceptions) the fault of the Obama administration …………….. translation …………. “it’s not working” !!!
2) Employment will never be at 100%. Let’s say it someday gets down to 1%. The 1% not YET hired should be just the type out there “occupying”.
3) With few exceptions, a recruiter for a private business, corporate industry or the government would be NUTS to hire those type of people …………… nothing but trouble down the road.
4) Bottom line ……………. BETTER QUALIFIED APPLICANTS.
4)
2)
TaxPayer
October 24th, 2011
10:22 am
I would add all cons lost credibility here a long time ago.
We do find them laughable now and fun to engage.
Tis true but one must be careful not to call them out for their inability to support their claims with facts too often or else they might take their ball and go to Kyle’s hood.
Jm
October 24th, 2011
10:22 am
I guess Jay has nothing to say about Volker’s comments about the GSE’s and congress.
Silence says everything…..
1811/0311
October 24th, 2011
10:23 am
Goodfight:
November 2012 !
Hard Earned Tax Dollars
October 24th, 2011
10:24 am
Jm says…And Amvet blames the GOP for 26% unemployment when for 2 years Dems controlled EVERYTHING
and…. So I stopped reading
When referring to the state of Georgia (Republican) ruled/control for almost a decade, Old Sonny and Nathan own this one!!
Jm
October 24th, 2011
10:24 am
Fact: everyone is a liar except for the Lib himself
Buck Hayek
October 24th, 2011
10:25 am
Bush Socialism =
1- $700 billion mandatory purchase of bank stock (TARP)
2- takeover of old folks pharma benefits (Medicare Part D)
3- $300 checks to all (2008 stimulus)
4- putting Fannie/Freddie into conservatorship rather than bankruptcy Oct 2008
5- handing out $10,000 downpayments for home purchases (American Dream Downpayment Act)
6- $2 trillion nation building effort in Iraq
Obama is a mere piker in the socialist realm.
TaxPayer
October 24th, 2011
10:26 am
Poor Scout,
He’s so confused.
St Simons - we're on Island time
October 24th, 2011
10:26 am
One more time.
Demand is a reason to create a job. ROI is the outcome.
If this was legit, why would you need my (Georgia’s) money?
Dang socialist Republicans & insurance lookin for gubmint handout.
Really, this is what happens when a subculture touts (and votes in) ignorance as some kind of “folksy virtue”. You end up with goobers & ignorance (see US govt 2001-2008). They’re not folksy, and dang sure not virtuous (Health care for all – that’s virtuous). My grandaddy called them “carpetbaggin scum”. Alsoo too, the cons are mixing their messages with this one. Its hard to screech “too minny reg-u-lations” when you’re passing a NEW law so you can bilk taxpayers.
Bosch
October 24th, 2011
10:27 am
“Dems controlled EVERYTHING”
jm, Dems sure as hell haven’t controlled things here in GA, where unemployment is way above the national average.
“Silence says everything…..”
Or maybe he just isn’t that into you jm. Most of us aren’t.
Jay
October 24th, 2011
10:27 am
Amvet, that comment has been pulled down and a repeat will get you banned.
bman
October 24th, 2011
10:28 am
Fisker also got about 1/2 billion to build a $100,000 electric car….in Finland. CAPCO isn’t the worst deal out there…
getalife
October 24th, 2011
10:28 am
“might take their ball and go to Kyle’s hood.”
True but they are so much fun, I go over there to engage them too.
I even got Kyle to comment on The Obama doctrine when there is no Obama doctrine.
I doubt he will engage me again.
My own version of a scout hole if you will.
Fair is fair.
jm
October 24th, 2011
10:28 am
“Obama is a mere piker in the socialist realm.”
lie
Jay
October 24th, 2011
10:28 am
jm, i guess you missed my earlier response:
What Volcker comments?
Joe COOL
October 24th, 2011
10:28 am
We can all play Kayacker “facts”..lol
Facts on Government Motors:
61% owned by the getafile
17.5% owned by the Ajc
9.8% owned by GG
9.8% owned by bond holders from the old Big Chicken
Grand total of 98%.
Now thats how Kayacker comes up with “facts”
Paul
October 24th, 2011
10:28 am
Jm
“I guess Jay has nothing to say about Volker’s comments about the GSE’s and congress.
Silence says everything…..”
Silence?
Jay’s addressed many of those points over the past couple years. Perhaps you missed those threads.
They’re in the archives.
Mick
October 24th, 2011
10:29 am
There are some here who hate this president so much that they can’t seem to grasp the hypocrisy of their words, try reading before typing than think about it before you hit submit…
AmVet
October 24th, 2011
10:29 am
Corporal, your first point is a childish lie. I have real bad news for you, this widespread devastation did not begin on January 21, 2009. What rock have you been living under?
BTW, do you ever make a post without ad hominems and a variety of other sophist logical fallacies?
You second one is accurate, though irrelevant.
Your third one and fourth one are more bald-face lies based on your ignorant and childish speculation. Nothing more than your usual fact-free drivel.
The next two actually make the most sense…
TaxPayer
October 24th, 2011
10:30 am
And Amvet blames the GOP for 26% unemployment when for 2 years Dems controlled EVERYTHING
The Dems controlled hiring and firing all across the US!!!! Well Dayham!!! No wonders we is in so muches trubble. Its da trubble wit tribbles. Why is it that just reading a conned post kills brain cells.
Welcome to the occupation (Trotsky)
October 24th, 2011
10:30 am
Buck Hayek 10:25. Mandatory reading.
“Obama is a mere piker in the socialist realm.”
Jm
October 24th, 2011
10:30 am
Hard earned 10:24 I agree
Jay, no I saw it and referenced the posted comments near the top of page 2
Mick
October 24th, 2011
10:32 am
The modern day republican party is made up of zombies and truth denialists, recede noisily into the minority, your rightful place…
Paul
October 24th, 2011
10:33 am
Trotsky
’bout a year ago I referenced comments by leading American socialists wherein they stated Pres Obama is no more a socialist than James Bond is a real spy.
Made no difference.
The mantra just keeps on flowing. Blocks the need for real thinking, you see -
getalife
October 24th, 2011
10:33 am
I own 61 % of GM?
Wow, I do own two GM cars but 61 % is a stretch.
Jm
October 24th, 2011
10:33 am
Jay, my 9:32 post to be exact
AmVet
October 24th, 2011
10:33 am
Understood Mr. Bookman. And apologies to you and the other folks here. I am not planning on riding the Dave R train.
But as I wrote, it was worth the yellow card. (grin)
And now I will give myself a time-out to go be a good lil’ capitalist…
1811/0311
October 24th, 2011
10:35 am
AmVet:
Personal attacks vs. debate. Not surprising.
I see you just got banned ………… must have been a doozie.
Paul
October 24th, 2011
10:35 am
AmVet
Thanks for asking yourself ‘is it worth falling on my sword?”
and for discerning the correct answer!
Welcome to the occupation (Trotsky)
October 24th, 2011
10:36 am
Paul: “The mantra just keeps on flowing. Blocks the need for real thinking, you see -”
As Plato pointed out centuries ago, no human passion is more powerful than the passion for stupidity. People cling to untruth, myth, outright lies as though to a life raft.
Joe COOL
October 24th, 2011
10:37 am
getalife
October 24th, 2011
10:33 am
lol….thats how “facts” are with some of these CONs. Just make em up as you go.
TaxPayer
October 24th, 2011
10:38 am
Republicans have no choice but to post and re-post lies because they have no truthes that will do so much as maintain the support of their still conned minions. Let them, for example, pull out the Paul Ryan yellowbrick roadmap again and try to resell that one to the nation’s Social Security and Medicare recipients.
Go for it!
Bosch
October 24th, 2011
10:38 am
“I see you just got banned ………… must have been a doozie.”
No, Scout he didn’t.
Bosch
October 24th, 2011
10:39 am
Hi Ya! Paul! Good weekend?
1811/0311
October 24th, 2011
10:39 am
Headline: “Key general: Iraq pullout plan a ‘disaster’ … ”
“U.S. troops will be vacating Iraq at a time when neither Baghdad’s counterterrorism skills nor its abilities to protect against invasion are at levels needed to fully protect the country, say analysts long involved in the nearly nine-year war.”
Sounds like 1972 to me.
Jm
October 24th, 2011
10:39 am
909 won’t raise as much revenue as 999
Cain backpedal. Ok by me but others will crucify him. And he hasn’t proposed how to actually balance the budget as far as I can tell
getalife
October 24th, 2011
10:40 am
Joe Cool,
I wish I owned 61 % of GM
Hard Earned Tax Dollars
October 24th, 2011
10:40 am
Wish that I could blog at work but it has been outawed! Check back later!!
1811/0311
October 24th, 2011
10:40 am
Bosch:
Excuse me ……….. I meant a post pulled.
But you knew that.
C from Marietta
October 24th, 2011
10:40 am
Hey Jay,
How about that wonderful democracy coming to Libya?
JB
October 24th, 2011
10:41 am
OBAMA=one big a** mistake america. …..Soon to be gone. His own party running from him. Hooray.
Jm
October 24th, 2011
10:41 am
Maybe Jay is experiencing true visual “selection bias” and can’t see my earlier Volker post
TruthBe
October 24th, 2011
10:41 am
Obama is a disaster as the president. He should go back and work for Acorn and the corrupt socialists inwhich he was good at. All most all of you African Americans voted for Obama because he’s black and you will do it again because of your reverse racism. Obama has been bad for the economy and jobs of all Citizens including African Americans. That includes some of you fans of Jay. The media will again give Obama a free pass on his politics and bad record. The media is so corrupt today that they have very little creditably. That includes the ajc.
mm
October 24th, 2011
10:41 am
“Solyndra alone was more than twice this amount, given to a company that was already failing,”
The BS talking point that will never die. You righties couldn’t come up with an original thought if you life depended on it.
USMC
October 24th, 2011
10:42 am
“Is there ANYTHING that state or local officials can do that can’t be made acceptable by the mere mention of the magic word “Obama”?”–Jay
LOL! Jay you must have had too much spiked “punch” and hash/pot “brownies” at the Little 5 points Halloween parade on Saturday.
All we have heard from you and your minions, Obama, and the LEFT since 2007 is “It’s BUSH’s fault” for every issue from state and local to federal and International issues.
Unbelievable the double standard and Hypocrisy; only on Jay Bookman’s blog!
TruthBe
October 24th, 2011
10:43 am
Obama’s pull out of Iraq is only for his own interests to get re-elected. Obama is a dishonest pig.
Mick
October 24th, 2011
10:44 am
1811
So what do you want to do, stay there forever? Make up your mind please. Oh, there’s nothing to make up because everything this president does in your world is bad, bad, bad. You kind of are a one trick pony, maybe time to learn some new tricks?
Buck Hayek
October 24th, 2011
10:45 am
Bush – 61% of presidential experts name him worst President in US history.
http://hnn.us/articles/48916.html
and 35% put his second worst – behind James Buchanan.
Jm
October 24th, 2011
10:46 am
Truthbe
He’s a skinny porker
Midori
October 24th, 2011
10:46 am
“You have forfeited all credibility.”
can’t miss what you never had……..
Paul
October 24th, 2011
10:47 am
Bosch
Yes, thank you. Mom is recovering, in a therapy rehab facility for probably a month. (I think she appreciated it when I told her “all my life I’ve wanted to say “My Mom’s in Rehab!!!”" – told her I know a guy who can make us t-shirts) and the physical therapy’s going well. Strain was a bit much on Dad as he’d taken a bad fall two weeks prior so I was able to help a lot on the day to day and he was feeling much better when I left. I’ll go back next week for a few days.
Gotta get a mobile hotspot set up for the laptop- I missed out on way too much fun here.
And the Series is 2-2. Two good teams trading wins. What a series should be.
And how was yours?
getalife
October 24th, 2011
10:47 am
c,
They have not voted in Libya yet.
Tunisia is going well.
usmc,
You have to keep up with tb on con talking points.
You are slipping .
Peadawg
October 24th, 2011
10:48 am
“Obama’s pull out of Iraq is only for his own interests to get re-elected. Obama is a dishonest pig.”
He only pulled out after negotiations w/ Iraq to keep soldiers there past December 31st broke down. Dishonest? Absolutely.
“I fulfilled my campaign promise….only after I almost didn’t”
Paul
October 24th, 2011
10:49 am
Hi Midori!!!
Feeling better, I hope?
Joe COOL
October 24th, 2011
10:51 am
LOL @ TruthBe.
Bless ya heart
getalife
October 24th, 2011
10:52 am
pea,
The mic wanted to stay but our President kept his promise.
It is as simple as that.
Butch Cassidy
October 24th, 2011
10:53 am
Wait, am I reading this correctly? The same people that bitch about Obama not keeping his promise to get us out of Iraq, are now bitching because he’s keeping his promise to get us out of Iraq?
Doesn’t anyone ever get dizzy from all the spinning?
1811/0311
October 24th, 2011
10:53 am
Mick:
I think Obama would be wise to listen to the advice from his generals rather than the advice of his staff who says he needs to do that to retain his very libeal base if he wants re-elected.
Otherwise, you tell me what was the purpose of the American lives lost (during both administrations)?
If Obama had pulled out every trooper the day after his Inauguration, at least I could “understand” his actions. This is just politics.
JF McNamara
October 24th, 2011
10:53 am
Now I know where Deal is going to work when he gets out of office.
Bosch
October 24th, 2011
10:54 am
“But you knew that.”
No, Scout, I didn’t, because that’s not what you wrote.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
October 24th, 2011
10:54 am
A one trick pony? More likely the only trick is the pile that is left behind after every post. No wait….. a pile left behind by a pony at least has some value to it. The nonsense of the little corporal result in posts which stacked end from end could not fill Box 23
Welcome to the occupation (Trotsky)
October 24th, 2011
10:54 am
TruthBe: “Obama is a disaster as the president. He should go back and work for Acorn and the corrupt socialists inwhich he was good at. ”
Keep clinging to that life raft.
“All most all of you African Americans voted for Obama because he’s black and you will do it again because of your reverse racism”
So, what do you call your position then, reverse-reverse racism?
1811/0311
October 24th, 2011
10:55 am
P.S. Mick:
We still have troops in South Korea ……………. for a reason.
The day we leave is the day the North Koreans will probably come across that border.
getalife
October 24th, 2011
10:56 am
Butch,
I quote Jim Wooten on that one.
“My head spins”.
1811/0311
October 24th, 2011
10:57 am
Bosch:
“No, Scout, I didn’t, because that’s not what you wrote.”
Well, posting something which would require a reply from someone who had been “banned” vs. just have a “post pulled” is self explanatory.
getalife
October 24th, 2011
10:57 am
scout,
Yeah, look at Vietnam.
1811/0311
October 24th, 2011
10:58 am
Good Fight @ 10:54:
More personal attacks from Good Fight.
Jay
October 24th, 2011
10:58 am
I agree with everything Volcker says in that speech, jm. The thrust of his remarks is here:
By now it is pretty clear that it was faith in the techniques of modern finance, stoked in part by the apparent huge financial rewards, that enabled the extremes of leverage, the economic imbalances, and the pretenses of the credit rating agencies to persist so long. A relaxed approach of regulators and important legislative liberalization reflected the new financial Zeitgeist.”
He argues in favor of things that you have opposed, such as tighter capital requirements. He wants greater oversight of money market funds, as well as requirements that companies rotate auditors. He advocates Dodd-Frank as a BEGINNING point, i.e., “The newly enacted prohibitions on proprietary trading and strong limits on sponsorship of hedge and equity funds should be much more significant.”
I agree with him on the GSEs as well. He approaches them from the same point of view that he uses to address banks that are “too big to fail (TBTF).” In both cases, because they can call on taxpayer bailouts, GSEs and TBTFs are encouraged to take too much risk, with too little “moral hazard” involved.
I agree. (Note that Volcker refers to “extremely lax, government-TOLERATED underwriting standards.” Not government-imposed. Government-tolerated.)
So what’s your point?
Paul
October 24th, 2011
10:59 am
Scout
“I think Obama would be wise to listen to the advice from his generals ”
I’d think that an ex-military guy, even at the level you served, would know the Commander in Chief establishes the concept of what will be done and the military makes recommendations on how to achieve it.
The military does not go to the president and say ‘this is what we think you should do in this area.’
The military advice was for the objectives laid out by Pres Bush and continued by Pres Obama. Pres Obama modified it by updating objectives. Appears some of the military leadership was still stuck on ‘this is what we used to be doing.’
TaxPayer
October 24th, 2011
10:59 am
The conned think that just because they like what they hear on the FOXy Blues teevee and on SmallTalk AM Radio, it simply must be the truth.
But once the Republicans won the majority here in Georgia and things still showed no improvement after implementing all their wunnerful policies, the talk of all that ails us still all being the Democrat’s fault should start sounding some little bitty alarms in anyone with a minimal number of synapsies still firing up there. Of course there’s always future Armaggeddon Days to look forward to. There’s 11/20/2011 and then there’s 12/20/2012…
1811/0311
October 24th, 2011
10:59 am
getalife:
Exactly ………… only in the case of North Vietnam it took them three years (1975) to get back up to strength to invade South Vietnam because we gave them such a pummeling during the 1972 Easter Offensive.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
October 24th, 2011
10:59 am
So North Korea is going to invade Iraq when we leave? Did Bush negotiated a South Korean withdrawal timetable too that the South Koreans have asked that we leave? I vote we leave general and some petit corporals behind!
Edward
October 24th, 2011
11:00 am
If the troops remained in Iraq, the GOP would be campaigning on Obama’s failure to adhere to his promise to bring the troops home. Now that he’s bringing them home, they must now campaign on continuing a war that should have never been. Hey GOP, how do you propose to keep paying for Iraq? How about some reduction of corporate welfare? And now I see old Saxby voted against ceasing to pay millionaire farmers government subsidies… is that a surprise? Since old Saxby gets his own share of those subsidies, he’s just another welfare queen.
You GOP teabaggers are a laugh a minute.
Bosch
October 24th, 2011
11:01 am
Paul! You bet I’ll make Mama Paul a shirt! Whatever color she wants!!
Sorry ’bout your dad too! Apollo fell down the stairs this morning, mis-stepped the bottom two and landed on his head….not to compare the pup to your Dad, just to lighten the mood.
Ya’ gotta be aware of things when they start falling — my dad used to fall all the time before my mom died, he fixed that by not leaving the recliner (or the house for that matter) except to go get some food and go to the bathroom!
My weekend was full of major physical labor stuff — my back may never recover.
Granny Godzilla
October 24th, 2011
11:01 am
Scout
“I think Obama would be wise to listen to the advice from his generals rather than the advice of his staff who says he needs to do that to retain his very libeal base if he wants re-elected.”
So who of his staff advised otherwise/
Keane retired in 2003.
Watcha’ got?
Anything?
TaxPayer
October 24th, 2011
11:02 am
BOX 23! Uh Oh! Someone yelled “Squirrel” in Scout language.
1811/0311
October 24th, 2011
11:03 am
Paul:
I hear you but I am betting in this case the president asked, they advised him and he rejected it for political (not sound military) reasons.
The current on duty generals will not say anything (and shouldn’t) as he is the Commander in Chief.
That’s why the “retired” generals speak up on behalf of those still serving ……….. it’s just the way it’s done.
That said, General Green (Commandant of the Marine Corps) stated that durng the Johnson Administration, his biggest regret is that he and the rest of the Joint Chiefs did not resign “en masse” over Johnson’s inane handling of the war (they discussed it).
Bosch
October 24th, 2011
11:03 am
Hi Midori!!
Ya’ been feeling poorly? Hope all is better!!
Paul
October 24th, 2011
11:04 am
Scout
“The day we leave is the day the North Koreans will probably come across that border.”
Are you seriously making the case that less than 30,000 military is all that keeps the North from invading South Korea? That the 30,000 US, added to the ROK forces, is sufficient to turn back an invasion? Really?
Jm
October 24th, 2011
11:04 am
Jay
I have not argued against higher capital requirements. Quite the contrary
Furthermore, I remember your arguments vociferously pointing out “how little” of the subprime debt was owned by the GSE’s therefore they weren’t at fault, it was Wall St you said.
Which version do you stand by now? I think it’s fine to change one’s mind. It appears you have done so.
I’m glad to hear you think the GSE’s deserve a huge amount of blame, and that Congress as their regulator bears that blame too. In particular the House FInServ Committee.
n
October 24th, 2011
11:05 am
More .smoke and mirrors lawmaking. Almost all Republican sponsored legislation over the past decade has served primarily as a vehicle for direct or indirect wealth transfer from the taxpayers to the inner circle of politicians and their businessmen/corporate cronies. They happily starve government, education, public works, infrastructure repair, natural resources, the courts, DA’s Offices, etc., while they continuously seeks new and ever more devious and deceptive methods to soak the taxpayers. They think we are fools; and alas they may be right.
TaxPayer
October 24th, 2011
11:05 am
You cons over here should at least try to coordinate your trash talk with Kyle. After all, he was just bragging about how Obama was doing as Bush planned with his withdrawal from Iraq.
Jay
October 24th, 2011
11:05 am
So Scout, given that the Iraqi authorities have made it absolutely crystal clear that they will not extend prosecution immunity to US soldiers, meaning that our men and women would be subject to Iraqi (Koran-based!!) laws, courts, judges and prisons, what would you have Obama do?
Keep Up the Good Fight!
October 24th, 2011
11:05 am
Scout, not personal at all. They are only “personal” to your posts and not comments about you. You do comprehend the difference. Attacking your posts as worthless is not only acceptable, truth is a defense.
Taxpayer
1811/0311
October 24th, 2011
11:05 am
Granny:
If you can’t see this as a political vs. military decision I can’t help you.
Even Hillary is warning Iran (wonder if Obama approved that)?
Time will tell but let’s discuss again down the road if Iraq takes the fall.
Got to run …………… everyone (who can) be respectful to posters
Jm
October 24th, 2011
11:06 am
Volker also said this:
“if the government wants to guarantee mortgages for certain low income people, ok, but I wouldn’t do much of it.”
Granny Godzilla
October 24th, 2011
11:07 am
Scout
So…since you are just guessing after all
it very well could be that all his Generals are hi-fiving each other at the prospect of bringing all those fine young man and women home?
Paul
October 24th, 2011
11:08 am
Bosch
Thanks for the levity. Just before I left Dad remarked he’d turned the corner on healing. I do think the mental stress from Mom held it back. BTW – he fell by tripping on a doorstep, holding aloft a hummingbird feeder and coming down on tile flooring. Said he was moving faster than usual.
Oh, and Ibuprofen is your friend -
1811/0311
October 24th, 2011
11:08 am
Jay:
One more quick response:
Should the Iraq’s pull that stunt ………… simply refuse to turn the personnel over to their jurisdiction and send them home. If we can invade a country and kick their a** we should have the guts to do that.
I’m sure it’s been done before in our history.
What’s done is done. As I said to Granny, let’s talk about this one down the road ………….. hopefully, we won’t watch as the last helicopter full of Marines lifts off the Embassy roof.
Got to run …………………..
TaxPayer
October 24th, 2011
11:09 am
I hear you but
Scout,
Shouldn’t that be:
“I hear you knocking but you can’t come in…”
or is that just your version of a Joe Wilson, “You Lie!”
Bosch
October 24th, 2011
11:09 am
So, Scout wants to invade Iraq again???
Granny Godzilla
October 24th, 2011
11:11 am
Scout
“If you can’t see this as a political vs. military decision I can’t help you.”
I determined that long ago
Everybody is entitled to their own guess…I guess.
Creed
October 24th, 2011
11:11 am
Ga. legislators succumbing to rainmakers’ spiel
CAPCO Program Locations
Louisiana became the first state to enact a CAPCO program in 1988. Missouri (1997), New York (1998), Wisconsin (1999) and Florida (1999) passed their own versions after observing the beneficial impact of Louisiana’s program. These states were quickly followed by Colorado (2002), Alabama (2004), Texas (2005) and Washington D.C. (2005). Due to their success, many of these programs have been renewed, some on multiple occasions.
As have eight other states and the District of Columbia. Did Georgia’s legislators research the successes or failures in other states? We can only hope.
CAPCOs in Wisconsin are encouraging the bio-fuel industry.
Buck Hayek
October 24th, 2011
11:11 am
The Bush people, in their effort to pump the housing bubble up, lifted the GSE “conforming loan” maximum from $330,000 to over $700,000.
Bush also rejected the GSE Reform Act that Mike Oxley sponsored (Chuck Hagel did the Senate version).
It was clear by their action the Bushies were pumping the mortgage bubble for all it was worth.
Paul
October 24th, 2011
11:12 am
Scout
I look at it more like the Pres sets the objectives and the military tells him how to achieve. They provide significant advantages and disadvantages. They should not be the advocates of policy.
I see while typing this you’re leaving for a bit.
Jay’s 11:05 is the salient point in all this. I trust you’ll have a clear, succinct answer upon your return.
Jm
October 24th, 2011
11:13 am
Jay, and my point is, Volker is being semi politic by saying government tolerated. Ignoring that, he is literally saying government tolerated bad GSE decisions. They were able to do that because of sh-tty oversight from the HFSC. And why was that? Because Barney Frank saw an opportunity to push more subprime debt out the door rather than improve oversight when he blocked regulatory reform multiple times almost 10 years ago ss the ranking minority member of the HFSC.
Bush tried to reform them. Barney stopped it and is to blame.
I’m not saying Bush is perfect and Frank is the devil. But you do take the opposite stance defending Frank to any length necessary and vilifying Bush at all times. And you seem to ignore the facts of the situation.
Just acknowledge the truth. You can blame bush all day long for Iraq. But blame Frank for the GSE disaster.
kawasaki kid
October 24th, 2011
11:13 am
Judging from Gov. Deal’s track record of cronyism and corruption, this scheme to benefit out-of-state investors with all the risk going to us taxpayers is a natural for him.
Jm
October 24th, 2011
11:16 am
And jay, you can blame house Republicans too. But don’t ignore the fact that Frank led the charge against the Bush reforms.
Welcome to the occupation (Trotsky)
October 24th, 2011
11:16 am
1811: “Should the Iraq’s pull that stunt ………… simply refuse to turn the personnel over to their jurisdiction and send them home. If we can invade a country and kick their a** we should have the guts to do that.”
But when Mr. Bush went into that country, and then kept doubling down on the venture, he claimed the reason was to establish “freedom” in that country. Well, this is what it looks like. So, why the need for a US overlord to keep said country under its boot? Doesn’t sound like “freedom” to me.
Did I lose you already?
Buck Hayek
October 24th, 2011
11:16 am
Jm lives in a fantasy world where a single powerless House member in the minority party controlled housing policy.
Too much redneck AM radio for you, pal!
Matti's Southern Drawl
October 24th, 2011
11:17 am
The more absurd the spiel, the better it plays in Georgia. Yeah, I said it! I’m from here. I should know.
Paul
October 24th, 2011
11:18 am
Scout
When you return, your 11:08:
“Should the Iraq’s pull that stunt ………… simply refuse to turn the personnel over to their jurisdiction and send them home. If we can invade a country and kick their a** we should have the guts to do that.”
You mean we should knowingly lie and sign an agreement with the Iraqis we have no intention of keeping?
Those are the American values we are to project to the world?
You really worked for the Secret Service?!!?
Paulo977
October 24th, 2011
11:19 am
Butch Cassidy
October 24th, 2011
10:53 am
Wait, am I reading this correctly? The same people that bitch about Obama not keeping his promise to get us out of Iraq, are now bitching because he’s keeping his promise to get us out of Iraq?
Yeah , it seems we favor this HYPOCRISY which is mistaken for Integrity!!!!!
TruthBe
October 24th, 2011
11:19 am
Buck Hayek, Barney Frank and Chris Dobbs are the ones who wrote and passed these corrupt mortgage laws and they all are democrats.
Normal
October 24th, 2011
11:19 am
Paul @ 11:18…
Jm
October 24th, 2011
11:21 am
Buck is angry at Bush for some of his behavior that was Democrat like.
Too funny. He blames bush for being too much Dem, and then tries to argue we need more of them?
Tooooooo funny. What a joke.
carlosgvv
October 24th, 2011
11:22 am
TruthBe – 10:10
I got a good laugh out of that. I guess you haven’t been watching the Republican debates, where they vie to see who can lie the most, or noticed that your beloved Republican Party is totally owned by Big Business.
Buck Hayek
October 24th, 2011
11:22 am
TruthBe – that is an AM redneck radio lie.
You can’t name a “mortgage law” they wrote. Wall St blew up on their own lack of risk management. Lehman, Bear, Merrill were unregulated.
Mighty Righty
October 24th, 2011
11:22 am
I don’t understand why the insurance companies are supposed to give 125 million dollars to the state. There is something missing from the article. But other than that, it sounds like an Obama “green jobs” program. No job creation, no expectation of profit, no taxes, no return to taxpayer just plain old corruption. The only difference is a taxpayer subsidy to consumers of the product.
Jm
October 24th, 2011
11:23 am
Buck, too much LSD for you pal.
stands for decibels
October 24th, 2011
11:24 am
I tell ya, it was Barney Frank’s Ghey-Dar wot dunnit.
Jm
October 24th, 2011
11:24 am
Buck Hayek sounds like Jay prior to agreeing with Volker
stands for decibels
October 24th, 2011
11:27 am
Word is that this COLA increase will the last for some time as we enter a new era of bipartisan austerity. It’s incredible that a nation that can seem to afford multiple simultaneous overseas wars and tax cuts for the insanely wealthy would consider balancing its budget on the backs of these people.
Buck Hayek
October 24th, 2011
11:28 am
Jm – I don’t get my “news” from AM radio rednecks like Boortz and Limpy.
The GOP ran the Congress from 1995 2007 while the housing bubble cranked up. Barney Frank couldn’t get a meeting room during that time (literally true).
GSE Reform Act 2005 — PASSED (HR 1461)
stands for decibels
October 24th, 2011
11:29 am
“I haven’t been so hurt since Obama was mildly critical of us!”
Thulsa Doom
October 24th, 2011
11:31 am
Jm lives in a fantasy world where a single powerless House member in the minority party controlled housing policy.- Buck Hayek
One thing that fascinates me about the liberal mindset is that they act like the Dems had no power or influence on the senate banking committee and in Congress in general when Bush was potus and the repubs had both houses of Congress. Then they turn around and say that in Obama’s first 2 years when he had both houses of congress including a near fillibuster proof 59 seat senate that it was the Republicans blocking and hindering Obama with all sorts of fillibusters and parliamentary moves. The inconsistency and absurdity of their arguments is nothing short of astounding.
Adam
October 24th, 2011
11:33 am
Scout: “Obama: ‘I’d like to work my way around Congress’ … ”
“OBAMA TO SIDESTEP CONGRESS”
Perfect example of media sensationalism, and exactly why reading only a headline hardly keeps you informed.
Thulsa Doom
October 24th, 2011
11:34 am
Buck Hayek with the “redneck AM radio lies” routine. Always interesting to see the blatant hypocrisy of uber liberals who bemoan bigotry and racism while yelling rednecks. And the funny thing is they don’t have the brains to figure out their own hypocrisy. Amusing but sad at the same time.
Thulsa Doom
October 24th, 2011
11:35 am
In addition to wrecking the economy with his failed policies it is now rumored that Obama is having problems with his TPS reports.
Peadawg
October 24th, 2011
11:36 am
“Obama: ‘I’d like to work my way around Congress’ … ”
“OBAMA TO SIDESTEP CONGRESS”
What’s the difference, Adam? One is sugarcoating. One is blunt and says it how it is.
Jay
October 24th, 2011
11:39 am
I never said or believed the GSEs played no role, jm.
I have said, accurately, that they did not drive the process, and in fact entered that market late in the process as a way to keep up with their private competitors.
But it’s as I expected: You read into Volcker’s comments a criticism of Barney Frank that wasn’t even slightly hinted at in Volcker’s actual speech. It’s actually kind of pitiful. You even dramatically rewrite his own words from “government tolerated” to “government-required,” because you know what he REALLY meant.
Personally, I’ll trust Volcker’s own account of what he really meant, thank you very much.
Volcker’s critique goes to the very existence of GSEs, not how they are regulated. Anything that removes moral hazard from the equation, he opposes.
BTW, yes, you have indeed complained about increasing capital requirements for BofA.
“Bosch those regulations I cited have nothing to do with BofA. BofA’s problems are both internal and external (the government).
Capital regs, new lending regs, and the endless endless US government lawsuits.”
getalife
October 24th, 2011
11:39 am
I knew I could get a flashback from scout.
Look at Vietnam today scout.
Nobody wants to invade, they just want to be left alone to live their lives.
Welcome to the occupation (Trotsky)
October 24th, 2011
11:40 am
Thulsa Doom: “Then they turn around and say that in Obama’s first 2 years when he had both houses of congress including a near fillibuster proof 59 seat senate that it was the Republicans blocking and hindering Obama with all sorts of fillibusters and parliamentary moves”
Operative word here being “almost”.
I’ll give you a hint: it’s about ideology, stupid, not party.
Guy Incognito
October 24th, 2011
11:41 am
Yeah, I’m goning to need Obama to ppd his rounds of golf this weekend and come in on Sat and Sun to finish up those TPS reports.
Buck Hayek
October 24th, 2011
11:43 am
Look Thulsa, we live in a time when culture defines our party affiliation – not economics.
The top capitalists are all liberals who support Obama (Buffett, Ellison, Gates, Google guys, Soros, Woz, and RIP – Jobs for example). Try as the right wants to you can’t paint us capitalists as “socialists” – it won’t work anymore.
Its CULTURE – the GOP is anti-science, Creationist, Southern, bigoted, and provincial —in other words – redneck.
TruthBe
October 24th, 2011
11:45 am
carlosgvv, Obama and the democrats have recieved more money from big business and gave away more influence than any of the republicans. You liberal progressives are just dishonest and lack the facts. GE = Obama, Warren Buffet = Obama, Big Insurance Companies = Obama, Big Oil = Obama, George Soros = Obama, Peter Lewis=Obama,
Big media = Obama, Hollywood = Obama. Get the facts straight please. Obama is nothing but a radical left wing corrupt Chicago Thug democrat period. And you losers have drank too much obamajuice.
Adam
October 24th, 2011
11:47 am
Peadawg: The difference is Obama CAN’T sidestep Congress. No matter how much he’d “like to.”
WOODSTOCK MIKE
October 24th, 2011
11:47 am
Every new video I see of Ghadafi being murdered confirms my assumptions that these middle eastern people are savage animals. Imagine a country that murders their president and drags his bloody body through the streets cheering. At least Saddam stood trial and was hanged for his criminal acts. Regardless of what crimes are committed, no human being should be killed that way…
Welcome to the occupation (Trotsky)
October 24th, 2011
11:47 am
The current economic regime is utterly corrupt and must be overthrown.
A system that privatizes profits and socializes risk will collapse. And that’s what we’re seeing.
A widespread uprising is likely the only answer to what is currently an absolutely hopeless situation.
TruthBe
October 24th, 2011
11:47 am
Buck Hayek, You must be one of those hate filled angry negros using the racist terms.
Bosch
October 24th, 2011
11:48 am
“Obama and the democrats have recieved more money from big business and gave away more influence than any of the republicans.”
TruthBe,
You simply can not have it both ways — as Buck pointed out above — Obama is favorable towards capitalists and big business. So your accusations of him being the business hating socialist is just contradictory to yourself.
stands for decibels
October 24th, 2011
11:48 am
Anyway, off topic as can be, but I appreciated this heart warming human interest story about the presumptive Republican presidential nominee’s efforts to connect with the public, from our Finest News Source.
Romney, an unsuccessful candidate for the 2008 Republican nomination, said that in recent months his town hall appearances and campaign rallies have served as constant distressing reminders of his inability to spark genuine enthusiasm among voters or form any kind of meaningful bond whatsoever.
“Sure, some people cheer and wave signs, but it all seems so mechanical, like they’re just going through the motions,” Romney said. “Have you ever seen anyone at a Mitt Romney rally with tears streaming down their face? No, of course not. Has anyone ever spontaneously started a spirited ‘Mitt, Mitt, Mitt’ chant that I could spend a solid minute basking in before finally beginning my speech? No way. In fact, it’s hard to even imagine it. Why is that? What am I doing wrong? I mean, I say inspirational stuff, don’t I?”
“I’m not asking for people to faint or go into hysterics or anything, but would it be too much for just one person to respond intensely and personally to who I am and what I stand for?” continued Romney, adding that he would even be thrilled to have a voter shout at him in anger, because then he would at least be able to say he had actually moved someone. “Frankly, I don’t even care who it is—an elderly woman, a child, a mentally-ill person who just happens to be wandering through the rally. I am wide-open here.”
Jay
October 24th, 2011
11:49 am
Thulsa writes:
“One thing that fascinates me about the liberal mindset is that they act like the Dems had no power or influence on the senate banking committee and in Congress in general when Bush was potus and the repubs had both houses of Congress.”
Let’s set aside the question of accuracy here and get to relevancy. Barney Frank is a HOUSE member, so would have almost no impact on the SENATE Banking Committee.
And in the House, the ability of the minority party to influence things is much much smaller than in the Senate.
Buck Hayek
October 24th, 2011
11:51 am
Truthbe-
Nahh – I’m a white guy tired of being called a “socialist” by ignorant wingnuts.
Welcome to the occupation (Trotsky)
October 24th, 2011
11:51 am
Woodstock Mike: “Every new video I see of Ghadafi being murdered confirms my assumptions that these middle eastern people are savage animals. ”
I love it. You neatly and conveniently excise our nefarious role from the picture — our bombs which hit the Ghaddhafi convoy and deliberately left him to the mercy of the “rebels”, who then proceeded to savagely murder him.
And then you assign 100% blame to the peoples of the region, deliberately refusing to see our fingerprints all over the events that set these later events in motion.
This is the very essence of racism.
Normal
October 24th, 2011
11:52 am
Woodstock Mike,
Just look at what the Italians did to Mussolini. When you are forced to live under another’s oppression, the “savageness”. you call it, it sometimes justified.
Thulsa Doom
October 24th, 2011
11:52 am
Welcome to the occupation trotsky,
Glad you brought that up about “almost” having a filibuster proof senate trotsky. If I remember correctly the one independent was someone who voted with the Dems the overwhelming majority of the time. It may have been Bernie Sanders, a socialist from Vermont, or Joe Lieberman who was independent but was always a Democrat previously. One thing is for certain. Obama certainly had more votes in the senate than Bush did when the Repubs controlled the senate. Just the facts sir.
Adam
October 24th, 2011
11:52 am
TruthBe: Your entire post just now can be explained in just two of your sentences:
Get the facts straight please.
A call for facts. Facts are not opinions and have some basis by which we can determine whether a statement is true or false. FOLLOWED BY:
Obama is nothing but a radical left wing corrupt Chicago Thug democrat period.
A statement that is completely bereft of any facts at all, and is entirely opinion.
BONUS, all of that was PRECEDED BY a bunch of other suppositions that mostly cannot be linked factually. If we assume that _____ = Obama means that Obama has some influence, all of the statements are false. If we assume that means, instead, that he supports such causes/industries/groups, then most of the statements are false. If we assume that means those causes/industries/groups support Obama, then there’s really no way to guarantee a false or true, and it again enters the realm of opinion.
I know this will fall on deaf ears, but if you want to talk fact, talk FACTS, not opinion.
Butch Cassidy
October 24th, 2011
11:53 am
TruthBe – “GE = Obama, Warren Buffet = Obama, Big Insurance Companies = Obama, Big Oil = Obama, George Soros = Obama, Peter Lewis=Obama,
Big media = Obama, Hollywood = Obama.
But wait, I thought Obama was a business hating, jobs killing, spread the wealth, entitlement mentality, socialist. Why oh why would these Captains of the Universe be so ready to support a man they know wants to kill them? Hmmmmmm….
Adam
October 24th, 2011
11:53 am
Thulsa Doom: Just the facts sir.
If only that were true all the time, we wouldn’t be having such a hard time agreeing on things.
TruthBe
October 24th, 2011
11:53 am
Buck Hayek, Do you believe in America or just hate it like most of the liberals?
Joe COOL
October 24th, 2011
11:55 am
-Report says that Romney’s state health plan supports illegal immigrants-
Romney signed the state’s health care overhaul into law when he was governor, in 2006. The law includes a Health Safety Net program, which provides medical care for undocumented immigrants and other uninsured residents of Massachusetts.
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/la-times-romney-state-health-plan-supports-illegal-125902537.html
Say it aint so MITT..lol
Bosch
October 24th, 2011
11:55 am
“Do you believe in America or just hate it like most of the liberals?”
That’s wingnut code for “my argument has been shown to make no sense, so now I must concede”
getalife
October 24th, 2011
11:55 am
You are missing the word “moderate” scout.
tireofit
October 24th, 2011
11:55 am
Never, I mean never confuse a republican with the facts, it my cause brain damage.
getalife
October 24th, 2011
11:56 am
One day the cons might win a argument.
Keep trying cons.
DannyX
October 24th, 2011
11:58 am
Barney Frank pinned down Tom Graves and shoved a huge 2 million dollar signature down his throat. It was not a pretty site, poor Tom.
Welcome to the occupation (Trotsky)
October 24th, 2011
11:58 am
Thulsa Doom: “One thing is for certain. Obama certainly had more votes in the senate than Bush did when the Repubs controlled the senate. Just the facts sir.”
Just two words: Blue Dog.
You see, the Democratic party lacks something very fundamental right now which the GOP in no way shape or form lacks:
Ideological discipline.
So your argument is in shambles.
Buck Hayek
October 24th, 2011
12:00 pm
Yeah – Truthbe – when Buffett invests billions on the future of the USA he does it because he “hates America”.
Flashback to 2003 and the disastrous invasion of Iraq – us anti-Bush people were told we hated America then too.
Whenever we are correct we “hate America” – Fox News has brainwashed you well.
TruthBe
October 24th, 2011
12:01 pm
All, Because Obama gives away so much to his cronies in big business and cuts them all kinds of insider deals. Example Warren Buffet got the lions share of Goldman Sachs from Obama, and the other shareholders didn’t get the same opptunity. GE with their no taxes deal and their no bid deals from the Obama adminstration. Those greenjobs companies given huge amounts of money from Obama that have the who’s who’s of inside the beltway democrat donors and family members of corrupt democratic leaders.Just look for yourself and stop listening to his cheerleaders in the corrupt media.
Jefferson
October 24th, 2011
12:04 pm
The GOP has nothing to offer.
Midori
October 24th, 2011
12:04 pm
Hi Paul
Hi Bosch
Last week when the weather turned I caught this terrible cold.
They ran me out of the office!! LOL!!
Feeling much better now. Thanks and good to see you guys
Jm
October 24th, 2011
12:05 pm
Jay 11:39
You “expect” wrong. Volker didn’t criticize Frank, he criticized Congress. I’m making the logical extension of Volker’s point, and that is that Frank deserves a significant portion of the blame.
As far as my comments on regs, yes. And I was referring to the issue of both the debit card fees, government lawsuits, etc.
If you keep digging, you will fund where I say the capital requirements should be held high, and they should be treated like utilities in many ways.
Where in those words you quoted me on did I say: huger capital requirements are bad?
Guy Incognito
October 24th, 2011
12:05 pm
“NEW YORK (Reuters) – The United States will likely suffer the loss of its triple-A credit rating from another major rating agency by the end of this year due to concerns over the deficit, Bank of America Merrill Lynch forecasts”
Here come the, “Merrill L is wrong. They’re racists. They’re controlled by R’s……..blah, blah, blah
TaxPayer
October 24th, 2011
12:05 pm
Nahh – I’m a white guy tired of being called a “socialist” by ignorant wingnuts.
I must take offense with your post. If the wingnuts were merely ignorant, they could be educated.
TruthBe
October 24th, 2011
12:06 pm
Buck (Rogers)Hayek, Warren Buffet puts his money in China. Get the facts straight before you look foolish. And Buffet only cares about his own pocket not what’s good for the Country. And I guess the homosexuals at MSNBC have brainwashed you Buck.
Butch Cassidy
October 24th, 2011
12:07 pm
TruthBe -”All, Because Obama gives away so much to his cronies in big business and cuts them all kinds of insider deals”
Great, now maybe we can get off the “Obama is a Socialist” merry go round, since his actions clearly show otherwise.
Jm
October 24th, 2011
12:07 pm
Huger = higher
But as typo autocorrect goes, that was close enough
Buck Hayek
October 24th, 2011
12:07 pm
Trushbe – Buffett loaned Goldman money and got warrants on stock. He never received a thing from Obama. Buffett probably never owned common stock outright.
Finance is my specialty – you are out of your league here.
Thulsa Doom
October 24th, 2011
12:07 pm
Yes. Jay I realize Frank is in the House and I believe it was Dodd who is in the senate and on the senate banking committe. Small faux paus but it doesn’t change what happened. As I understand it the Bush administration in either 2001 or 2003 wanted the house committe that Frank sat on to look into fannie and freddie and their stability. The issue broke along party lines and never made it out of committee. And if you google Frank and fannie mae you find quite a few cozy relationships there such as getting an exec at fannie to get Frank’s boyfriend a job at Fannie Mae. If that’s not corruption then what is? Newt is right. Something smells about the whole situation and Frank and Dodd probably need to go to jail. More of the Dem’s crony capitalism.
larry
October 24th, 2011
12:08 pm
Thulsa Doom
October 24th, 2011
11:52 am
Nope, wrong again. The Senate went 59-41 after Senator Kennedy died and was replaced by Senator Brown to serve out the remainder of Kennedy’s term. What resulted was a record breaking 112 filabusters by the Republican Senate.
TruthBe
October 24th, 2011
12:08 pm
Jefferson, The democrats have nothing to offer except for more corruption. And your boy
Obama is their fearless leader.
Jm
October 24th, 2011
12:09 pm
Guy incognito
You left it “blame bush for the downgrade”
Even though he hasn’t been in office for 3 years
getalife
October 24th, 2011
12:10 pm
I think we should praise our cons when they write the truth.
I will be waiting for that.
Jm
October 24th, 2011
12:10 pm
Jay
Dodd frank is about much more than just higher capital requirements
And you know that
Welcome to the occupation (Trotsky)
October 24th, 2011
12:10 pm
TruthBe: “And I guess the homosexuals at MSNBC have brainwashed you Buck.”
??
AmVet
October 24th, 2011
12:10 pm
This transparently ludicrous poutrage over the corporate ownership of this administration is pathetic.
BHO was the first Dem candidate for president to EVER to outraise his GOP opponent in money from BIG business.
And I wrote on this very forum (well it was Luckovich’s back then) that Obama was just another VERY corporate friendly politician who would never stand up to his monied paymasters.
If honesty were involved, TruthBe and the other far right wing servile apologist’s, would admit that this topic was in no way remotely near their radar until sometime after January 21, 2009.
And the day a Republican gets back in the White House. it will once again disappear from their talking points…
St Simons - we're on Island time
October 24th, 2011
12:10 pm
Metaphorically, the con-trolls’ strategy seems to be – wear down the host’s fist with their faces.
larry
October 24th, 2011
12:11 pm
larry
October 24th, 2011
12:08 pm
that should be Republicans in the Senate
Thulsa Doom
October 24th, 2011
12:11 pm
Welcome to the occupation Trotsky,
I’ll match the absurdity of your blue dog argument with the rino card since there are numerous rinos in the senate. Looks like your argument is right back in shambles again. Please delete your previous post and try again. It was inane, inconsequential, and most of all irrelevant.
Paul
October 24th, 2011
12:14 pm
g’morning, sfd
When I read “Finest News Source” I thought it was code for Fox News… but, it’s The Onion. So I guess it’s on a par with Fox’s political entertainers.
Gotta say I’m mystified why Romney doesn’t connect with the Republican base. He’s rich. Really, really, really rich. But he doesn’t care for tax cuts for people like him. Guess that’s what ticks off the base.
Maybe there’s something else. Lot of them like blame, guilt, that sort of stuff. Read an article about him from the perspective of a guy who was a wayward Mormon youth. Was then 19 and supposed to do missionary service, but he’d gotten into some serious drug and alcohol use. Lied to ecclesiastical authorities (Romney was head of the Boston area, like a diocese.
Bryce Clark was a recipient of Mr. Romney’s spiritual advice. Late one summer night in 1993, distraught over his descent into alcoholism and drug use, Mr. Clark, then a 19-year-old college student, decided to confess that he had strayed from his Mormon faith. So he drove through this well-heeled Boston suburb to Mr. Romney’s secluded seven-bedroom home.
As the highest-ranking Mormon leader in Boston, Mr. Romney was responsible for determining whether Mr. Clark was spiritually fit for a mission, a rite of passage for young Mormon men. Mr. Clark had previously lied to him, insisting that he was eligible to go. But instead of condemnation that night, Mr. Clark said, Mr. Romney offered counsel that the younger man has clung to for years.
“He told me that, as human beings, our work isn’t measured by taking the sum of our good deeds and the sum of our bad deeds and seeing how things even out,” recalled Mr. Clark, now 37, sober and working as a filmmaker in Utah. “He said, ‘The only thing you need to think about is: Are you trying to improve, are you trying to do better? And if you are, then you’re a saint.’
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/2793361/posts
Hope that outlook doesn’t get smothered trying to win the Republican base for the nomination.
TruthBe
October 24th, 2011
12:15 pm
Buck, Then why did he get the better class of voting shares??? Remember the other angry sharholders at Goldman Sachs. They complained about it. Corruption starts at the top and slides down. I’m not you emeny I’m just tried of the one sided BS. The career corrupt democrats and republicans with the help of Bush / Obama are destroying our Country. Both parties are ran by crooks. Americans should throw all of them out out office.
Thulsa Doom
October 24th, 2011
12:15 pm
Larry,
So where was I wrong? If you’re saying the senate went 59-41 AFTER Kennedy died then obviously that means they had a filibuster proof 60 before he died according to you which would make me even more right than I thought. 2 other points- 1. If they had 59 votes then all they needed was one rino to get the 60 needed right? Point 2 is that Scott Brown may be a Republican but just how Republican do you really think the man is in a state heavily Democratic and in a senate seat owned by a liberal lion like Kennedy? Seriously?
Buck Hayek
October 24th, 2011
12:15 pm
Thulsa – wrong again.
GSE Reform not only made it out of committee – it passed the House with 331 votes (bipartisan) so Barney Frank is out of the loop.
Then Bush killed it.
HR 1461 – look it up.
Paul
October 24th, 2011
12:17 pm
Joe COOL
“Report says that Romney’s state health plan supports illegal immigrants”
Just like federal law requires?
getalife
October 24th, 2011
12:17 pm
Still waiting cons…….
Welcome to the occupation (Trotsky)
October 24th, 2011
12:18 pm
Thulsa Doom:
Even before the current Congress came in, the combination of 98% captivity to neoliberal ideology in the GOP ranks combined with anywhere between 30-60% captivity among the Dems, depending on issue, meant that Barack Obama never had anything like a solid majority for any kind of truly bold legislation. As it happens of course, Obama himself is pretty much captive to the same ideology, the difference just being a matter of degrees, so that further makes your argument misguided.
stands for decibels
October 24th, 2011
12:19 pm
Hope that outlook doesn’t get smothered trying to win the Republican base for the nomination.
Agreed.
Buck Hayek
October 24th, 2011
12:19 pm
Truthbe-
Obama fined Goldman $550 million. He also is subjecting them to tight capital requirements (called tier 1 capital) and position limits on commodity trading (oil margins).
How did Goldman “buy” Obama again?
Soothsayer
October 24th, 2011
12:19 pm
“Yeah, I’m goning to need Obama to ppd his rounds of golf this weekend and come in on Sat and Sun to finish up those TPS reports.”
I’ll make sure you get another copy of that memo, OK?
Paul
October 24th, 2011
12:20 pm
Glad you’re feeling patient, Midori
“Still waiting cons…….”
Good thing you’re a patient guy, getalife
larry
October 24th, 2011
12:20 pm
He only had a fliabuster proof Senate for only 6 months. Of course , you could not explain the record 112 filabusters from the Repubs in the last Congress.
TruthBe
October 24th, 2011
12:21 pm
Obama is corrupt just like most career politicans. As for his ideology straight out of the little red book.
stands for decibels
October 24th, 2011
12:21 pm
Also, Paul, I think “america’s finest news source” has been the Onion’s slogan since they were still solely a print-newspaper parody, back in the late 80s.
Jm
October 24th, 2011
12:21 pm
Buck. More lies.
See 2003 oversight reform proposal that Bush initiated
larry
October 24th, 2011
12:22 pm
If only we could hop in the DeLoren and go back in time and heed this man’s words……………………
http://www.break.com/index/too-big-to-fail-1999-warning-in-congress-2193451
stands for decibels
October 24th, 2011
12:24 pm
Of a recent-historical note–
People tend to forget that the MN election recount and legal challenges meant that the 60-vote Dem caucus didn’t begin until Franken was seated, on July 7, 2009.
Jm
October 24th, 2011
12:24 pm
Buck
“HR 1461…. Actually increases the opportunities for Fannie and Freddie to exploit their subsidies in order to expand into other areas of residential finance.”
Buck. Stop lying. You look ridiculous and undermine your non existent liberal credibility.
Paul
October 24th, 2011
12:26 pm
sfd
I became familiar with them just a couple of years ago.
So,,, what’s the parody? Finest News Source as applied to the Onion… or that other F network?
Jm
October 24th, 2011
12:26 pm
So many lies from liberals they have no credibility with anyone including voters
That’s why they’ve lost almost every election since 2008. Fact
TruthBe
October 24th, 2011
12:28 pm
Obama had Buffet buy Goldman Sachs. Look into Shore bank of Chicago and the Chicago Climate Exchange ( CCX ) inwhich Obama, Buffet, and Goldman Sachs had ownership interest. There is connection if you want to know. The resaon is the same ole dog and phony show (money). Communist like money to the diffeence is they want all of it and the power that follows. None for you or me. Just their few cronies to share together.
Thulsa Doom
October 24th, 2011
12:29 pm
Trotsky @ 12:18,
Sir do you not understand the difference between opinion and fact. What you just posted is your own subjective opinion with some nonsense thrown in about “captivity percentages” to try and make the argument that Obama had less core support. You’re simply moving the goal posts and introducing your own subjectivity as fact. And you’re really looking foolish in doing so. Its a very simple question Trotsky.
Now allow me to help you out with the facts Trotsky
The Republican controlled 107th Congress (2001—2003) had a weak link: the Senate. Jeffords was a Republican senator from Vermont. Early in Bush’s first term, Senator Jeffords switched from Republican to Independent, changing the 50/50 balance of power in the Senate. Although the House remained in Republican hands, those hands were tied, so we were told, because the Republicans no longer controlled the Senate.
Lets just stick with the facts of how many senators have an R after their name and how many have a D after theirs.
And in the 109th Congress the Repubs had 51 senators, 48 for the Dems, and 1 independent.
Bottom line is the Repubs never got anywhere near 59 senators like Obama did. I’m sorry Trotsky but those are the facts. And the facts are clearly on my side sir. You are hereby dismissed.
Welcome to the occupation (Trotsky)
October 24th, 2011
12:29 pm
By the way, Thulsa Doom, if you want to see what I mean about the entire Congress being essentially captive to the same basic ideology, witness the recent passage of the Panama, Columbia, and S Korea trade deals. (http://www.sunherald.com/2011/10/23/3523594/good-deal-for-state.html)
How did trade policies with such fundamental ramifications on our society manage to pass without so much as a peep of public debate?
The answer: near unanimity in ideological terms among our ruling class.
Which translates to: sham democracy.
Soothsayer
October 24th, 2011
12:30 pm
“If only we could hop in the DeLoren and go back in time and heed this man’s words……………………”
Or this guys warning.
Thulsa Doom
October 24th, 2011
12:32 pm
stands for decibels,
In other words Obama only had a year and a half after Franken took his seat in July to begin his war against America. Can you or trotsky or someone please point out to me the last time the Repubs had 59 or 60 seats in the senate?
Tundra Dude
October 24th, 2011
12:32 pm
bman@9:41 am, wrote, in part:
I’m trying to remember when and where I have heard of CAPCO. I will have to read more about it, but I thought it had been around for a long time?
CAPCO a Trojan Horse
http://tinyurl.com/6hdltpw
Comments by states and independent experts having evaluated CAPCO actual results
http://tinyurl.com/6hrfqpr
“It’s a scam,” said Colorado state Treasurer Mike Coffman – “I don’t think there’s anyone who thinks this is a good deal for Colorado, with the exception of those companies who lined their own pockets.” Ref
A Wisconson audit found the CAPCO credits generated 316 new jobs at a cost of more than $90,000 apiece, other programs created jobs for $556 to $22,727 each. Critics have called the program inefficient because the investments are funneled through the insurance companies.
Thulsa Doom
October 24th, 2011
12:33 pm
Trotsky @ 12;29,
You can argue all day long with your subjective opinion. I’ll stick with my facts thank you.
Welcome to the occupation (Trotsky)
October 24th, 2011
12:34 pm
I think you’re missing my point, Thulsa Doom.
“And in the 109th Congress the Repubs had 51 senators, 48 for the Dems, and 1 independent. /
Bottom line is the Repubs never got anywhere near 59 senators like Obama did. I’m sorry Trotsky but those are the facts”
I’m arguing that there is a consensus in ideological terms that CUTS ACROSS party lines, which means your insistence on seeing things strictly as Democratic vs Republican is beside the point much of the time.
It’s the inability to distinguish between partisan and ideological that renders so much of our ideological debate stale and pointless.
larry
October 24th, 2011
12:35 pm
And in the 109th Congress the Repubs had 51 senators, 48 for the Dems, and 1 independent.
And how many times did the Democrats filabuster legislation ?
10 times , mostly judicial nominations
stands for decibels
October 24th, 2011
12:35 pm
So,,, what’s the parody?
I’m sure both the Onion and FNC work equally hard to maintain the level of journalistic excellence expected by their respective audiences.
A few years back, This American Life profiled the brutally difficult passage a headline idea makes from conception to inclusion in the final edition of the Onion. Not available as a free download, but you can play it on your PC if you’re so inclined…
http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/348/tough-room
They start with over 600 potential headlines for their fake-news newspaper each week, and over the course of two days, in the very tough room that is their editorial conference room, they select 16 to go in the paper.
TaxPayer
October 24th, 2011
12:38 pm
I see jm is up to his usual tricks of proclaiming others to be the liars. Yawn. When r u going to take that job in China, jm.
Welcome to the occupation (Trotsky)
October 24th, 2011
12:38 pm
Once more, Thulsa Doom, how did the Congress just manage to pass another sweeping set of trade deals, a purely BIPARTISAN effort, without so much as a peep of public debate?
It’s because our political debate is rendered trivial and narrow by an over-focus — esp. by our media — on partisanship as horse race rather than the hidden consensus ACROSS party lines about things where no such consensus really exists, or should exist, among the populace.
stands for decibels
October 24th, 2011
12:39 pm
In other words Obama only had a year and a half after Franken took his seat in July
Al Franken–sworn in on July 7, 2009.
Scott Brown–sworn in on January 4, 2010.
Slightly less than seven months.
Thulsa Doom
October 24th, 2011
12:39 pm
Jm,
You put the words liberals and credibility in the same sentence. Isn’t there some kind of rule in the English language that the 2 should never appear in the same sentence together? I had to do so only for illustrative purposes.
Thulsa Doom
October 24th, 2011
12:41 pm
stands for decibels,
And when again did the Repubs last have anything like 59 or 60 seats in the Senate?
Jm
October 24th, 2011
12:41 pm
Thulsa
Taxpayer. I elected low tax FL for now. Next stop, Singapore, not China
Thulsa Doom
October 24th, 2011
12:44 pm
on partisanship as horse race rather than the hidden consensus ACROSS party lines about things where no such consensus really exists, or should exist, among the populace.- Trotsky
Trotsky,
Your point has little to do with what we were originally talking about but nevertheless I see your point and do in fact agree with it somewhat.
stands for decibels
October 24th, 2011
12:44 pm
Thulsa, I’m not sure why you’re arguing with me–I’m simply pointing out that the overhyped “filibuster proof” Senate–which included one guy who actively campaigned against Obama and for McCain–only lasted seven months, a fact that seems to elude a lot of people.
Jm
October 24th, 2011
12:46 pm
Trotsky
You’ll take an interest in all the supercommiytee lobbying
See politico.com
And there’s only one congressional fundraiser on there. Hint: she’s a dem
AmVet
October 24th, 2011
12:46 pm
Jm is the new arbiter of credibility now???
(Huge guffaw here.)
After Jay has ‘corrected’ him innumerable times for posting completely irrational claims and damn near endless misinformation???
Absolutely hysterical…
Swami Dave
October 24th, 2011
12:49 pm
Gee…..
We have seen billions lost or at risk for loss in cases like Solyndra.
We have watched as the Obama administration has migrated their word choices for the “impact” of their previous or desired “stimulus” efforts. In this case, we have traversed from “Jobs created”…..to “Jobs created or saved“…..to (now) “Jobs supported“!
Now, Jay is highlighting attempted legislation in Georgia which would be further examples of government (albeit state governments in these cases) putting public money at risk for promised (but unmeasurable) job growth.
How about we get government out of the way of job creators and let them do what they do best!
That goes for Democrats (and Republicans) in Washington as well as Republicans in Atlanta!
-SD
mike "hussein" smith
October 24th, 2011
12:50 pm
Nathan Deal and his gang are not to be trusted on this. The governor has already shown his lack of expertise in investing in small business. His big deal with his son-in-law blew up in his face. Only later did Deal learn the man was lying about his past.
Jm
October 24th, 2011
12:51 pm
FL added the most jobs of any state last month
Second was TX
Both run by R’s
mike "hussein" smith
October 24th, 2011
12:52 pm
Swami Dave, you’re glaring into your toilet bowl. The stimulus package was always about creating or saving jobs from day one. You have no knowledge, no memory and no facts on which to base your specious post.
Mick
October 24th, 2011
12:54 pm
doom
What difference does it make if you have 51 or 59 senators if you can be filibustered? That was the tactic used by the minority to thwart the majority, and when it comes to a jobs bill, downright pathetic…
Mick
October 24th, 2011
12:57 pm
jm
What kind of jobs? Our goofy governor easily passed up on over 30k good paying jobs with high speed rail. I guess you’d rather have people flippin burgers and call that progress. Gov. rick “the disaster” scott will be a one termer…
Jay
October 24th, 2011
1:00 pm
The issue broke along party lines and never made it out of committee.
That is false, Thulsa. It not only made it out of committee, it made it out of the House.
Even basic arithmetic tells you that you’re wrong: If it broke along party lines, D. vs R., as you claim — then the GOP won the day, since it had the most votes.
Thulsa Doom
October 24th, 2011
1:00 pm
Mick,
The point is simple. If you have 59 you only have to sway 1 senator who is in a state where the electorate is nearly split 50/50 or a special situation like Scott Brown being in a heavily blue state like Massachussetts. Substantially harder to do if you need to sway 9 senators. It aint gonna happen.
You mention the jobs bill but if you are mentioning Obama’s most recent jobs bill I understand that there are Democrat senators who are against his bill. Even some members of his own party see it as a boondoggle waste of money that would accomplish absolutely nothing other than driving us even deeper into debt.
Thulsa Doom
October 24th, 2011
1:04 pm
Jay,
I’m just rehashing what I saw in the news regarding the whole situation. I’m not certain if it was true and it could well be false but that is my understanding of what happened. Also I’m not sure how many repub and dem congressman were on the subcommittee that Frank was on but its possible that one Repub broke ranks but that otherwise that the vote was on party lines. Who knows? I will research it further when I get time.
Adam
October 24th, 2011
1:05 pm
TruthBe should change his name to TruthBeGone, for all of the “truth” he tells.
Adam
October 24th, 2011
1:06 pm
Fresh Climate Change sheets that are sure to get your blood boiling
Mick
October 24th, 2011
1:07 pm
doom
** accomplish absolutely nothing **
Tell that to an unemployed construction worker. Our infrastructure needs repair, people need jobs, republicans had no problem spending us into debt the last decade through war and medicare part d, now they can’t even help the middle class yet vow not to raise taxes on the rich. You’re on that side? Shame..
Terri Schiavo
October 24th, 2011
1:08 pm
I’m proof that when the Republicans want to – they act!
Thulsa Doom
October 24th, 2011
1:11 pm
For 16 years reformers in Congress have tried to improve oversight of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac and prevent the government-chartered companies from putting the housing market and the whole economy at risk. All that time, Frank was involved in efforts to block those attempts, and in the last eight years he was a leader of those efforts.
In 2002, shortly before accounting irregularities were exposed at both companies, Frank said, “I do not regard Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac as problems,” The Wall Street Journal reported. After the Freddie Mac accounting scandal in 2003, Frank said, “I do not think we are facing any kind of a crisis.”
But there was a crisis, thanks in large part to Frank, Sen. Charles Schumer and others on the leash of these companies. In Congress, they made sure there was no additional oversight, no additional limit on executive behavior and compensation, and no further restraint on the growth of the companies’ mortgage-backed-securities portfolios, among other changes.
(All of these needed reforms, by the way, have been championed for years by Sen. John Sununu.)
In fact, Frank & Co. made matters worse by pushing Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to take on greater risk. They wanted more loans to people who might not qualify for traditional bank financing. And, as The Wall Street Journal has pointed out, Frank “pressured regulators to ease up on their capital requirements — which now means taxpayers will have to make up that capital shortfall.”
Even now, after the government took the companies over (which Frank repeatedly said over the years was not a possibility), Frank opposes limits on the amount of money they can risk on mortgage backed securities — the one reform that might have done the most to prevent the current meltdown and probably would do the most to keep it from happening again.
In fact, Frank & Co. made matters worse by pushing Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to take on greater risk. They wanted more loans to people who might not qualify for traditional bank financing. And, as The Wall Street Journal has pointed out, Frank “pressured regulators to ease up on their capital requirements
Thulsa Doom
October 24th, 2011
1:12 pm
Forgot the link. Here it is. And of course Jay will say that Frank really didn’t have that much influence with Fannie or Freddie. And if that were true then he wouldn’t have been able to get a fannie exec to hire his boyfriend either.
http://www.zimbio.com/Freddie+Mac/articles/423/Barney+Frank+Chuck+Schumer+Role+Fannie+Mae
Thulsa Doom
October 24th, 2011
1:18 pm
Mick,
There is a difference between creating jobs and creating work. And as we’ve seen from the amount of the stimulus and the jobs saved or created the cost per job saved or created is astronomical. There is no debate about the math which is very simple and straightforward. Please justify to me why we would spend a trillion in stimulus that would maybe lower unemployment by a tenth of one percent thus resulting in a crazy number like a couple hundred thousand dollars spent for every new job created. What sense does that make Mick?
You keep bringing up part D over and over and yet I’ve pointed out to you numerous times that the Dems had an alternate proposal to part D that would have been more expensive and additionally the Medicare Part D program has come in not only under budget but substantially under budget. It has been a major success. And you want to take away old people’s life saving drugs? Shame on you.
Jm
October 24th, 2011
1:19 pm
Republicans at the state level have been adding private sector jobs at a rate 0.18% faster than democrat governors
Over a decade, that’s an extra 2.6 million jobs
And that’s with a democrat in the whitehouse
Think what can be done if Obama is replaced
Jay
October 24th, 2011
1:21 pm
Republicans at the state level have been adding private sector jobs at a rate 0.18% faster than democrat governors
Who knew governors had that kind of power? They sure don’t seem to have it here in Georgia.
Oh, and by the way jm? Over the past year, California, not Texas, has added the most jobs.
Buck Hayek
October 24th, 2011
1:22 pm
Way to go, Thulsa.
You are now # two million posting the canard ” but, but Barney Frank SAID” and mistake that for actual policy adopted by the House.
Fact is HR 1461 passed, was written by Mike Oxley, House finance chair (Frank took over in 2007) and Bush killed it.
Mick
October 24th, 2011
1:27 pm
doom
You are thinking of someone else, not once have I brought up medicare part d. Even heritage foundation admitted that the stimulus was successful in heading off a deeper recession. Remember also that half the stimulus was……you guessed it tax cuts. I guess you can finally say they don’t create jobs, right?
saywhat?
October 24th, 2011
1:29 pm
Republicans will privatize and tax cut Georgia into the third world. I only hope things reverse, or at least slow down so that the idiots don’t fully succeed until my kids are grown.
Buck Hayek
October 24th, 2011
1:31 pm
On the Obama stimulus – GDP was an incredible NEGATIVE 8.9% when it passed and was +2.0 in two quarters.
-8.9% was the worst since the Great Depression.
WOODSTOCK MIKE
October 24th, 2011
1:32 pm
Welcome to the occupation (Trotsky)
Did you say I was racist for calling people that drag a bloody body through the streets savages? If that’s racist I guess you’re right, but you have an interesting interpretation.
TruthBe
October 24th, 2011
4:55 pm
Adam, You don’t know your ass from a hole in the wall. As for facts and the truth that’s a subject you and your lefty friends know nothing about. Adam you and the rest of the paid DNC bloggers are only here to spread lies and make excuses for the progressive liberal democrats. Adam when are you going to move out from your Mother’s house?
TruthBe
October 24th, 2011
5:00 pm
Steve Forbes 10% flat tax is the best choice for our tax system. No increases allowed ever. Also abolish state property taxes that way you actually own your house, business, farm, or land. We can pay for public schools in another way.
Adam
October 24th, 2011
5:43 pm
TruthBe: Adam, You don’t know your ass from a hole in the wall.
I rest my case.
Lakeria
October 24th, 2011
6:54 pm
I hate to be a cynic but when I read this my first thought, given our governor’s shady background, was ’some of that CAPCO money will find its way into Deal’s pocket’. Based on the experiences of other states, CAPCO looks like a terrible idea.
Paulo977
October 25th, 2011
12:23 am
Joe COOL
The law includes a Health Safety Net program, which provides medical care for undocumented immigrants and other uninsured residents of Massachusetts
Did right for once!!!!
middleground
October 26th, 2011
9:47 pm
We don’t like how things are going in Georgia, yet the democrates are missing in Action.
GA is a one party state run by the insiders at the republican party which is not open to diversity.
Its not a winning formula and expect GA to stay in decline.