Climate-change skeptic: ‘You should not be a skeptic.’

Richard Muller, a physics professor at Cal-Berkeley, has been a celebrated skeptic about the true extent of climate change.

Muller has questioned whether the data had been skewed by the “heat-island effect.” He has had his doubts about the so-called “hockey stick,” which shows global temperatures rising much faster since the early 19th century than at any point in the last thousand years. In the past, he has called the hockey stick “an incredible error” and “the artifact of poor mathematics.” And he has been quite harsh in his condemnation of fellow scientists involved in the s0-called ClimateGate scandal:

“I frankly as a scientist — I now have a list of people whose papers I’m won’t read anymore. You’re not allowed to do this in science. This is not up to our standards.”

So Muller, acting in the best traditions of science, decided to redo that work. He put together a top-notch team that included Saul Perlmutter, who just recently won the Nobel Prize in physics, and Judith Curry of Georgia Tech, another noted scientist who has been critical of some of the work of some of her peers. Their project — funded in part by a grant from the Charles M. Koch Foundation — just completed its two-year work.

Last week, Muller and the Berkeley Earth Surface Temperature team released its findings (the results have yet to undergo peer review). As Muller described it:

Our biggest surprise was that the new results agreed so closely with the warming values published previously by other teams in the US and the UK. This confirms that these studies were done carefully and that potential biases identified by climate change skeptics did not seriously affect their conclusions.

As he wrote in the Wall Street Journal:

“When we began our study, we felt that skeptics had raised legitimate issues, and we didn’t know what we’d find. Our results turned out to be close to those published by prior groups. We think that means that those groups had truly been very careful in their work, despite their inability to convince some skeptics of that. They managed to avoid bias in their data selection, homogenization and other corrections.”

Here’s a chart produced by Muller’s team, documenting the findings of three other research teams as well as the BEST team. Note how closely the findings track each other.

climategraph

This is how science works. It checks upon itself. And when the position that you had previously taken has been proved false, you do what Muller has done:

You change your position.

– Jay Bookman

399 comments Add your comment

md

October 24th, 2011
4:26 pm

Stevie…….that post is not in relation to global warming…….but with our debt.

pogo

October 24th, 2011
4:27 pm

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. Groundhog Day, AGAIN. Over and over and over again. Everyday Jay proves how little it takes to entertain liberals and how willing they are to “gobble his bait”.

As for the subject, if you liberals are so worried about Global Warming why don’t you quit spending your lives on this blog and shut your computers down? The electricity to run them is coming from somewhere, isn’t it? And, more than likely that source is in large part consists of the burning of CO2 producing coal. Put your money where your mouths are. Shut them down. Nah, you won’t do it. You talk a lot but don’t want to sacrifice anything. That is the way of the liberal. And the old ones are the worse.

AmVet

October 24th, 2011
4:30 pm

josef, alas, I only saw a tiny part of that program. it looked great, though.

One of the really great aspects of a thread like this is that it radically separates Jay’s blogdom into two distinct camps.

And not the ones that you may think I am referring to

Those that at least try to offer relevant, cogent information.

And those like that 4:24…

josef

October 24th, 2011
4:34 pm

ZamVet

Catch it on replay…it’s worth watching…

Mighty Righty

October 24th, 2011
4:34 pm

Notice the so called “hockey stick effects” begins with government grants to study global warming. Also notice today weather bureaus are located worldwide at airports surounded by concrete, asphalt in metropolitan areas. When this study began there were no airports, concrete or asphalt. Also note on any given day there is a variance of as much as 5 degrees from one side of atlanta to the other. ICal-Berkley profs are well known for their complete absence of common sense.

Paul

October 24th, 2011
4:34 pm

md

The reason I asked if you even looked at the link is because, while the chart is labeled CO2 the narrative made clear it’s but one component of greenhouse gasses. It also addresses, just a few seconds later in the narrative, the temperature issue (1 degree C) and notes the negative impact even a seemingly ’small’ change has.

See, when you question something with a ‘wonder why’ it kinda leads to the question ‘wonder why the poster never read or listened to the information?”

TruthBe

October 24th, 2011
4:34 pm

josef, There is no such thing as the Tooth Fairy or Moderate Islamacists. If you knew
anything about Islam than you would know that the extremist Muslims rule the
so-called moderate ones. Just look around. The 15-25 percent hardliners rule the
remaining ones in all the Islamic Countries. As a Jewish person you should know
this josef. Israel faces these racials everyday.

Keep Up the Good Fight!

October 24th, 2011
4:36 pm

Hmmmm…. and the stupid parade of posts continues.. I am confident the Koch Foundation would be glad to know they are part of the “government grants”. Do the right wingnuts ever read the original story before they pontificate blowhardness and ignorance?

md

October 24th, 2011
4:38 pm

“See, when you question something with a ‘wonder why’ it kinda leads to the question ‘wonder why the poster never read or listened to the information?””

I guess turnabout is fair play……..Did you even look at Bruno’s chart??

That is where the “wonder why” is coming from………….

Stevie Ray

October 24th, 2011
4:40 pm

MD: thanks for clarification and i retract any contention it may have suggested.

Amen brother…I’m of the opinion that the US Gov’t wastes about $1 trillion per year in IRS inefficiences, Medicare/Medicaid as well as 7 or 8 other key categories. Not only is the how-wouse ablaze, but the fire department’s hoses are leaking mightily.

getalife

October 24th, 2011
4:42 pm

“Moderate Islamist Party Claims Victory in Tunisia
By DAVID D. KIRKPATRICK 2:05 PM ET

Ennahda appeared to emerge as the big winner in Tunisia on Monday as preliminary results leaked out in the voting for an assembly to draft a constitution and shape a new government.”NYT.

Good for them.

Keep corporate money out of your elections and good luck Tunisia.

Bosch

October 24th, 2011
4:43 pm

TruthBe,

It is YOU that obviously knows nothing of Islam — no one “rules” another. The whole concept of their “salvation” (which actually isn’t even a concept in the religion) revolves around the INDIVIDUAL’S complete submission to Allah. In Islam, no one submits to anyone else except Allah. Or so I’ve heard and read.

AmVet

October 24th, 2011
4:44 pm

Notice the so called “hockey stick effects” begins with government grants to study global warming.

Already refudiated earlier today by yours truly. And a ludicrous, utterly unsubstantiated claim.

Also notice today weather bureaus are located worldwide at airports surounded (sic) by concrete, asphalt in metropolitan areas. When this study began there were no airports, concrete or asphalt. Also note on any given day there is a variance of as much as 5 degrees from one side of atlanta to the other.

Already refudiated earlier today by yours truly. Worldwide satellite based measurements and ocean-wide based buoys, comprise the largest percentage of measuring devices and data in use.

Nothing with any meat on them bones?

professional skeptic

October 24th, 2011
4:44 pm

A good skeptic will take appropriate steps to verify his/her claims, and an even better one will admit when the facts suggest s/he is wrong. ;)

Well done!

md

October 24th, 2011
4:45 pm

“In Islam, no one submits to anyone else except Allah”

Which is why MAD is obsolete with a theocracy………….

Bosch

October 24th, 2011
4:47 pm

md @ 4:45

What?

Paul

October 24th, 2011
4:49 pm

md

I do beg your pardon. I took it to mean ‘wonder why the Doctor/Professor omitted data that was essential to the point” so you can understand the confusion.

Didn’t sound like you. Shoulda’ known better but after some of the posts I’ve read today it seems like people were eating nutty flakes for breakfast.

josef

October 24th, 2011
4:57 pm

TruthBe

i don’t make any claim of being any type of “expert” on Islam (or Christianity, Buddhism, Hinduism or my own Judaism). I have learned, though, that there are as many different “brands” and interpretations of Islam as there are of most other religious doctrines…and that 15-25% minority you speak of does the same with Christianity and, in Israel, Judaism, seeking to impose their own particular brand on everyone else…

getalife

It’s interesting that the party leader has, in his fist comments, gone to great length to assure the secular Tunisians that it will be a moderate approach and, more significantly, he has gone way out of his way to reassure the foreign capital investors…he knows that he can’t afford to alienate either of these two elements. I understand that he will be required to form a coalition government, it should be interesting to see which of the secular parties he courts…

Stevie Ray

October 24th, 2011
4:58 pm

PAUL:

What graph are you referring to as I’m bored with work and want to opine.

Also, I noticed on an earlier post you asked ‘If man does not contribute, then why look for alternate fuel sources?’ I’m likely taking you out of context and apologize in advance if that’s the case but one answer is too get the H*LL out of the middle east by eliminating our sole “interests”….it sure ain’t Israel. Lots of oil reserves right here in Dakotas that match Saudi reserves we are not allowed to utilize….

Paul

October 24th, 2011
4:59 pm

md

In answer to your question ‘wonder why’ I’d have to say Dr. Long stated accurate temperature measurement doesn’t go back very far at all. Even then, he showed the range of values that exist for a given point in time. The chart Bruno cited purports to show accurate temperature plots going back 400,000 years, no range of uncertainty.

The methodology between the two is stark.

Doggone/GA

October 24th, 2011
5:01 pm

” no one submits to anyone else except Allah. Or so I’ve heard and read.”

That’s certainly the original concept, but religious leaders being – like all those in power “power hungry – have distorted it into following teachers rather than JUST the teachings of Allah.

carlosgvv

October 24th, 2011
5:02 pm

And this is how The Republican Party and Big Business work. When their position on global warming is proved to be false, they will ignore the evidence and, when pressed, declare this evidence to be just more liberal bias and error. In other words, when their patronage and money is involved, they will take any lying position possible in order to keep their patronage funding and profits. And, of course, the gullible faithful will believe everything they are told by their Republican heros.

Normal

October 24th, 2011
5:02 pm

Everybody dress up as a Muslim for Halloween and go trick or treatin’ at TruthBe’s house…He seems skeered of ‘em… :)

Paul

October 24th, 2011
5:05 pm

Normal

Thass funny. Mean, but funny!

We should do it -

josef

October 24th, 2011
5:06 pm

Normal

Last year one of my Bengali neighbors who wears the hijab came with her little monsters…she dressed as a witch! Pointed hat over the hijab, painted on scary face, fake nose, carrying a broom…ah, America! Ain’t it one grand place for diversity?

Stevie Ray

October 24th, 2011
5:06 pm

Josef,

I hear you. I’m wondering when Islamist US citizens will organize there folks into a non-taxable entity and use non-taxable funds to extort agenda items from Rightwingnuts? Nothing is more wrong than the Christians using tax exempt funds to decide Republican elections (or not votes totalling 30 million if you believe that Jeffers snake oiler in Texas)and generally set human rights issues back decades just like they have done with science since Galleleo…We need to take non-exempt status away and leave religion out of bounds.

Appropos of absolutely nothing…

josef

October 24th, 2011
5:07 pm

Doggone
As a Christian whom I respect, correct me here if I’m wrong, but doesn’t Christianity teach submission to the Christ?

AmVet

October 24th, 2011
5:08 pm

Normal, LOL…

Perhaps he will be forced, under Sharia law, to move to Dearbornistan, Michigan!

(getalife remembers one of the earlier loon chicks at ML’s, who was convinced some world-ending plot was being cooked up by the Moozlims up there…)

Thomas

October 24th, 2011
5:08 pm

Sorry Jay- couldn’t rebut your defensive wrap on the knuckles to the Cain plan as I was busy creating jobs. Sorry dude, if you change the income tax number (higher) it is by definition not regressive. You are a myopic writer that has little to no syndication. You could change that by a little less adolescent anger and little more education and understanding that the rest of the world is not dumb.

Paul

October 24th, 2011
5:09 pm

josef 5:07

I like where this is going…. heh, heh, heh…..

josef

October 24th, 2011
5:10 pm

Stevie Ray

There have already been some efforts that direction…they’re just not getting much traction…radical, fundamentalist Islam has about the same “charm” for American Muslims as radical, fundamentalist Christianity or Judaism and that is, not much…

josef

October 24th, 2011
5:11 pm

PAUL

Well, EOI aside and you being another practicing Christian whose opinions I respect…am I correct?

TaxPayer

October 24th, 2011
5:13 pm

…human-produced global warming has been caused by the rapidly increasing CO2 concentrations in the atmosphere over the last 200 years — rising over 390 parts per million after remaining below 300 parts per million for the previous 800,000 years. And unlike natural heat variations, the current temperature increase caused by CO2 is being recorded occurring all around the globe – on the ground, in the air and in the oceans…

Stevie Ray

October 24th, 2011
5:16 pm

Thanks PAUL,

I’m with ya. The only fact that I truly believe about this issue is that not enough credible evidence exists to justify at this point whether we really have a problem. Being of an actuarial bent, the data, well….sucks. All politics and no substance. Anyone who is already setting up the carbon trading exchanges is not worthy of debate.

Paul

October 24th, 2011
5:16 pm

josef

Yup.

Not just submission, but a complete change of attitude, outlook and reliance with attitudes and actions that will conform to His example.

Most of us regularly blow it, but we try –

The Scarlet A

October 24th, 2011
5:18 pm

josef

October 24th, 2011
5:07 pm

Doggone
As a Christian whom I respect, correct me here if I’m wrong, but doesn’t Christianity teach submission to the Christ?
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Josef, as a practisioner of Judaism whom I respect, correct me if I’m wrong, but doesn’t Judaism call for blood sacrifices, (perfect lambs and doves), and other burnt offerings for each particular sin at specific times?

Doggone/GA

October 24th, 2011
5:18 pm

“As a Christian whom I respect, correct me here if I’m wrong, but doesn’t Christianity teach submission to the Christ?”

for those versions that believe in the Trinity, they teach submission to Christ as being the Father, Son and Holy Ghost all in one. I can’t speak for other sects, as I was brought up in a Trinity version – Lutheranism.

But a very interesting show I saw a while back about Islam made it clear that the religions original teachings were submission to Allah, not to an earthy, living teacher and that the “Imam” systema has subverted that original teaching.

I think from the aspect of a no longer living teacher (Jesus or Mohammad) those teachings are the way to reach peace with God and any living teacher who distorts those original teachings can be considered a false prophet.

But…there will ALWAYS be people who need to be told what to do and they will always be subject to a distorted version of their religion that speaks to their own prejudices. A clear case, if you will, of making a god in man’s image.

Or, as someone once put it: “You you’ve made god in your image when your god hates the same people you do”

Paul

October 24th, 2011
5:19 pm

Stevie Ray

I should say that when I began this journey of examination I had pretty much the same attitude. The change occurred when I happened across that second link. Just a thorough, rather dispassionate presentation of data with supported conclusions. I’d encourage you to take about a half hour and listen to it.

Makes much of the counter-arguments I read here seem rather pathetically juvenile.

Normal

October 24th, 2011
5:20 pm

Yeah, the Muslim thing was a cheap shot, but so am I ;)

BTW: Did the Rapture happen Friday and I was Left Behind? Or did it happen and nobody made the grade? Is Scout still here?

josef

October 24th, 2011
5:20 pm

PAUL

That’s what I understood to be the underpinning of the Christian faith…

Just an off the wall comment here, but I was talking to a Tunisian colleague about Tunisia’s particular intepretations of things and she said, “well, you gotta remember, we ARE the descendents of the Barbary pirates!” :-)

Doggone/GA

October 24th, 2011
5:25 pm

“well, you gotta remember, we ARE the descendents of the Barbary pirates!”

Sound like the Australians. Wasn’t it back in the ’80s when it became all the rage to trace your family tree and see how many criminals you had in your background?

The Scarlet A

October 24th, 2011
5:28 pm

Normal: Scout was deliberately left behind to fight for the new recruits.

Paul

October 24th, 2011
5:28 pm

Doggone/GA

Well, if your genealogy links into that penal colony down under…

AmVet

October 24th, 2011
5:28 pm

Normal, I think there was a lot of rupturing, but no rapturing…

josef

October 24th, 2011
5:29 pm

SCARLET

Not any more…not since the codification of the Babylonian Talmud…Judaism is an evolutionary faith and, not always very successfully, tries to keep abreast of the times…

Doggone/GA

October 24th, 2011
5:31 pm

“Well, if your genealogy links into that penal colony down under”

Not mine! Mine seems to come to a completely “normal” ending in the Scotch-Irish and German background typical of someone born in Pennsylvania

josef

October 24th, 2011
5:32 pm

Doggone
No pirates or criminals in my family tree….there’s the ever how many greats grandpappy who “…had shipping interests in Barbados…” or the more recent one involved “in railroads and ancillary interests…” :-)

Doggone/GA

October 24th, 2011
5:35 pm

Josef – mine, as far as I’ve been able to trace it, is pretty much working-class right down the line. Steel workers, blacksmiths, builders, farmers. That’s about it as far as I can tell.

The Scarlet A

October 24th, 2011
5:36 pm

josef: Is that how it works? I’ve always wondered about that. So if I google “the codification of the Babylonian Talmud” I will get the answer to the question I’ve had since I was about 8? Back then when I asked, I was hushed by the adults. Finally I quit asking it.

Stevie Ray

October 24th, 2011
5:37 pm

PAUL:

Will check it out and appreciate the link. It’s unusual to find others who dont’ suffer from “information-based bias” and actually enjoy researching each issue before being told by tradition or the folks at the club how to think. Love to see Jay or others so smitten with the same old Republicans stink, Democrats stink, and the blame game for one single day, collect data contrary to their core beliefs and for that day, argue the other side.

carlosgvv

October 24th, 2011
5:38 pm

Since no one on Earth knows who actually wrote any of the Old and New Testaments, it is so interesting to read so many of you talking about them as though they are positively the proven words of God. And, of course, your retort that it is all about faith. This only goes from bad to worse since you seemingly don’t know the difference between faith and fact. Sad, mindless and pathetic.

Soothsayer

October 24th, 2011
5:41 pm

Paul

October 24th, 2011
5:41 pm

Stevie Ray

“collect data contrary to their core beliefs and for that day, argue the other side.”

We’ve a little club here known as the EOIs – Equal Opportunity Instigators.

Keep it up and you may just get an invite -

josef

October 24th, 2011
5:43 pm

Doggone

I love shaking MY family tree…behind the blue-haired biddy version is the real tale…one of my cousins and I have a ball sometimes when we find ourselves in the position of having to be “a gentleman” when responding to their inquiries…the “ancilliary interests” being high class wh*re houses!

I think I may have posted this before, but not long ago one of the BHB set needed our “help” in identifying a photograph which she “thought were the young ladies of Ms Martha’s finishing school” Ha! The young ladies were on the verandah of Ms Martha’s husband’s bordello! We were “true Southern gentlemen of culture and breeding,” though, responding we were “unable to verify that the building was the school!” :-)

Doggone/GA

October 24th, 2011
5:43 pm

“And, of course, your retort that it is all about faith”

Well, but you have to remember…there’s a difference between positive faith and blind faith.

Paul

October 24th, 2011
5:43 pm

carlosgvv

“Since no one on Earth knows who actually wrote any of the Old and New Testaments,”

Actually, in many cases, for the core basis absent later embellishments, we do -

Doggone/GA

October 24th, 2011
5:45 pm

Joseph – that’s very close to the essence of tact! “Telling someone to go to hell in such a way that they look forward to the trip”!

Keep Up the Good Fight!

October 24th, 2011
5:46 pm

I shook my family tree once…..and a bunch of nuts dropped out. Including my own sister who keeps telling me how “accurate” Fox is in all its reporting. :lol:

Doggone/GA

October 24th, 2011
5:47 pm

“Actually, in many cases, for the core basis absent later embellishments, we do ”

Actually, that only applies to the letters in the New Testament…but not all of the letters attributed to Paul were actually written by him, and THOSE we don’t know who wrote them.

josef

October 24th, 2011
5:48 pm

carlos

If you want respect, you have to show it. Sad? Mindless? Pathetic? Well, just my oipinion, but, yes, you are… you are a truly closed-minded individual…

SCARLET

Well, yes, but the best commentaries on those things comes via the Maimonidean…that is the rationalization of the tradition with the modern secular world….

AmVet

October 24th, 2011
5:48 pm

Religion is OK. As a hobby.

As for the source of my morality and ethos?

No.

By the time I was 20 I already found it to be horribly lacking and absurdly hijacked…

Doggone/GA

October 24th, 2011
5:51 pm

“By the time I was 20 I already found it to be horribly lacking and absurdly hijacked”

If you don’t mind, I would reword that. It is the religious who are horribly lacking and who have hijacked their religion. Religion IS, but it’s people who DO. And some of do horrible injustice to their religion.

Adam

October 24th, 2011
5:52 pm

AmVet: By the time I was 20 I already found it to be horribly lacking and absurdly hijacked…

AMEN!

(heh)

Adam

October 24th, 2011
5:54 pm

Doggone: I would argue that religion is the construct of the people who support it. It’s kind of like a market system. Whatever the demand is, that’s what worms its way into the religion. And if the religious leaders reject what is popular, or don’t have a good enough messaging machine to hold on to their followers while correcting them about every idea they ever have, then those people leave that religion.

Doggone/GA

October 24th, 2011
5:57 pm

” I would argue that religion is the construct of the people who support it.”

and I wouldn’t argue that. But that does not neccessarily negate it as a force. Nor does it negate it as a repository of wisdom. The “wisdom” has to be judged by it’s results, but those who distort that wisdom do not change the wisdom as it SHOULD BE followed.

getalife

October 24th, 2011
5:58 pm

I pray at home.

Our President has to work around corrupt congress to try to help the economy.

That is a story because corporate media gives the gop obstructionist do nothing corrupt party a free pass.

Mr. Snarky

October 24th, 2011
5:58 pm

We know global warming is real. The question is “Is Rick Perry real?”

josef

October 24th, 2011
5:59 pm

What I find most intriguing when the conversation moves to the topic of religion, faith, belief or what have you is how often the emotional takes over with “believers” and “non believers” alike unable or unwilling too often to step back and look at the matter from a cultural paradigm free of judgments one way or the other…it soon enough takes on the air of competing tent revivalists!

josef

October 24th, 2011
6:00 pm

The Scarlet A

October 24th, 2011
6:01 pm

josef; Dammit, you ALWAYS give out homework. OK I’ll research those two. Did a brief overview. It wasn’t enough but I have to finish cooking supper. Thanks for the starting points. I’ll get back to you later for clarification if I need it.

Arx Ferrum

October 24th, 2011
6:02 pm

Here’s the thing… Global warming/Climate Change (whatever) is almost purely in the political arena. This is NOT the place for a subject that is, by definition, scientific and effecting the entire planet. Politics is itself, by its own definition, polarizing. Al Gore, the godfather of this topic, is about as divisive as anyone on this same planet.

So, here comes yet another study that this times says one thing. There have been a host of others that said the opposite. Why should we now roll over and play dead if we disagree? We know that politics can’t be trusted. We know that politicians are, in their own definition, are devout liars.

So, forgive me but… I don’t give a flying rat’s patootie what this study said. Either remove the politics, and the politicians, or expect more of people like me.

Doggone/GA

October 24th, 2011
6:02 pm

“it soon enough takes on the air of competing tent revivalists!”

It does, but I think it also points to the difference between those of positive faith and those of blind faith. I see that the more blind the faith the more shrill the judgement of others.

AmVet

October 24th, 2011
6:03 pm

Doggone, for me personally it was the set of beliefs surrounding Christianity itself that was lacking.

Farcical tales ,similar to the The Iliad and the Odyssey, where superhuman agencies dispense “justice”, by torturing people forever and ever, like some sort of enraged monster?

No thanks. It may work for some, but not this heathen…

josef

October 24th, 2011
6:03 pm

getalife

And I pray at school! “Dear L-rd, please stop me from going down to 210 Pryor Street and start slapping faces!” :-)

Keep Up the Good Fight!

October 24th, 2011
6:05 pm

Paul

October 24th, 2011
6:06 pm

Mr. Snarky

“The question is “Is Rick Perry real?””

I keep hoping it’s a bad dream and when I wake up the governor is Barbara Eden.

josef

October 24th, 2011
6:07 pm

Doggone

And I wholeheartedly agree on that “blind faith” thing, and blind faith besets the believers and non believers alike…

Doggone/GA

October 24th, 2011
6:09 pm

“Doggone, for me personally it was the set of beliefs surrounding Christianity itself that was lacking”

and I would argue that that is an indictment of the beliefs, but not of the religion itself.

Just as an example, take the injuction “Judge not, lest ye be judged”

What I was taught about that command is not what I NOW believe it to mean. My understanding of it has change radically from what I was taught about it. I now believe it to mean we are not to judge the PERSON, but it does not absolve us from judging the deeds of a person.

To take it to an extreme example: *I* no longer judge Hitler to be an evil person. I see him as a man driven by his own demons to DO evil things, but it is not for me – as a Christian – to judge him as a person.

Doggone/GA

October 24th, 2011
6:11 pm

“and blind faith besets the believers and non believers alike…”

It does indeed

The Scarlet A

October 24th, 2011
6:11 pm

josef@ 5:59: I agree. I NEVER try to “change” someone’s mind, nor belittle their beliefs (and lack of a belief is a belief). If asked, I will sometimes say what I believe with no apologies or excuses. I respect others “beliefs” and vainly expect others to respect my “beliefs.” In the end, we will never know until we are DEAD so why do we waste so much time on it. Why do some have to beat others over the head with a bible, torah, koran, ect., to feel good about themselves? Why do others have to say that those who believe are idiots with no capacity for rational thought? In the end, there is no “proof” one way or the other. You just have to believe what you believe and life your life accordingly.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MrXnDbOpxU4

Kamchak

October 24th, 2011
6:14 pm

Including my own sister who keeps telling me how “accurate” Fox is in all its reporting.

I got one of those too.

Mom forgot to tell me I had a brother named Keep Up the Good Fight!

josef

October 24th, 2011
6:15 pm

Doggone

I won’t go as extreme as you here, but… :-)

My own is the role of Judas…the whole Jesus Christ Superstar interpretation fascinates me…

josef

October 24th, 2011
6:17 pm

SCARLET
@ 6:11

And I am in your corner on that…well put…and love that link!

AmVet

October 24th, 2011
6:18 pm

I see, Doggone. I think.

Two irreverent thoughts.

One, a line from a Dire Straights song – Religion is useless, philosophy worse.

And the second is a paraphrase of a line from Monty Python – “Farcical crucifixion ceremonies are no basis for a system of beliefs!”

I’m into the Oblivion/Looney Tunes School of Thought.

Dig this ride, cuz when it ends…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_hZrXdJ-ibo

F. Sinkwich

October 24th, 2011
6:18 pm

“The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll for Monday shows that 19% of the nation’s voters Strongly Approve of the way that Barack Obama is performing his role as president. Forty percent (40%) Strongly Disapprove…”

Since this topic has evolved into a discussion of religion, just thought I’d add this about the lib ilk’s messiah.

Doggone/GA

October 24th, 2011
6:18 pm

“the whole Jesus Christ Superstar interpretation fascinates me…”

It did me too, but I have come to see Judas as a supremely “demon” driven man. What is interesting to me is Christian writings that were excluded from the Bible because they were not crucifixion or resurrection driven. They were based on living a Christian life as Jesus lived his life, not as he died.

I haven’t read much of them, but just the concept alone I find fascinating. We’ve talke of John Dominic Crossan’s writings before. It was from him I learned of the existence of those writings. I wish I had access to them.

Doggone/GA

October 24th, 2011
6:20 pm

“just thought I’d add this about the lib ilk’s messiah.”

And yet, ever and always, it is NEVER a “lib” who calls him that. Only conservatives do

Keep Up the Good Fight!

October 24th, 2011
6:20 pm

Kam. :lol: Brothers from different mothers. That would explain a lot. I am sure you got the good looks. I have a face only the dogs could love. :D

Jay

October 24th, 2011
6:20 pm

Fresh sheets

F. Sinkwich

October 24th, 2011
6:22 pm

“More than two-thirds of voters say the United States is declining, and a clear majority think the next generation will be worse off than this one, according to the results of a new poll commissioned by The Hill. A resounding 69 percent of respondents said the country is “in decline,” the survey found, while 57 percent predict today’s kids won’t live better lives than their parents.”

I’m starting to get nostalgic for Jimmy Carter…….

Kamchak

October 24th, 2011
6:23 pm

Ooooh.

The daily Ragamuffin update.

josef

October 24th, 2011
6:26 pm

ZamVet

and Python on the secular?

“…a watery tart handing you a sword from a lake is the basis for a system of government…”

:-)

And since the Bruin thinks we should now leave Monday Night services…going upstairs…

Frank

October 24th, 2011
6:40 pm

Hello, they all use the same data set. Did the writer not read any of the Hadley controversy? Of course there is not difference between the three sources. Furthermore, it says nothing about how any temperature change is caused by man. The 20th Century increase is no more than that of the Middle Ages Warm Period, which Mr. Mann and company tried to diminish.

Tom Middleton

October 24th, 2011
7:08 pm

Well, maybe the Republicans will finally get on board with the Dems now in trying to save our planet for the future generations.

I mean, surely Michelle Bachmann, Cain, Perry and Romney will finally decide that there’s something more important than profit for their base, and that’s the ability of planet earth to sustain life for the many generations to come, yes?

I mean, surely Michelle Bachmann, Cain, and Perry and… you know, put on their thinking caps and… well, actually thin … oh never mind!

TGT

October 24th, 2011
7:44 pm

Just chiming in on this. The implication here (again) seems to be that “warming” (however minute) implies man-made warming. Of course, this is far from the truth. Also, Muller’s claims are being met with some serious blowback:

Climatologist Dr. Pielke Sr. On Muller’s study: ‘Unless, Muller pulls from a significantly different set of raw data, it is no surprise that his [temp] trends are the same’

Physicist Dr. Lubos Motl Rips Muller’s Temperature Study: ‘It is not true that the Berkeley group has found relevant evidence for the core questions in the AGW debate’

Meteorologist D’Aleo: ‘Muller’s results are predictable, since he appears to have worked with much of the same raw data all 3 global data centers used or started with’

Also, as early as last March the “deniers” were being warned: “This whole [Muller] project has to be a set up to screw skeptics. Who disputes warming has taken place? Why have we allowed Muller to set up a straw man argument to take cheap shots at skeptics? It appears Muller is incapable of running this project. He has allowed leaks, media distortions, allowed [warmist activist Joe] Romm to publicly hijack project and Muller remains silent.”

philosopher

October 25th, 2011
7:05 am

“Just chiming in on this. The implication here (again) seems to be that “warming” (however minute) implies man-made warming. Of course, this is far from the truth. Also, Muller’s claims are being met with some serious blowback: “…
See, there is too much at stake for some folks to admit that man has any significant impact on climate change. If one does, it means that we have responsibilities-we can and must stop practices and change practices that we are definitely not willing to even think about, economic changes…loss of income for those who monetarily benefit from practices that are adding to the problem…TOO MUCH money. And then there’s the whole thought that if I own up to it, I’ll have to realize that my actions can affect the future of my children and grandchildren ad finitum…and if I am not part of the solution, then I am part of the problem and adding to a very grim future for them…and I am definitely NOT going there.

[...] Richard Muller, whose recent “study” on surface temperatures, has caused headlines like “Climate-change skeptic: ‘You should not be a skeptic.’“, the San Francisco Chroniclereported in 2006: … Muller estimates 2 in 3 odds that humans are [...]

[...] (blue) below. Notice anything interesting since 2000?http://www.woodfortrees.org/plot/hadcrut3vglhttp://blogs.ajc.com/Richard Muller, a physics professor at Cal-Berkeley, has been a celebrated skeptic about the true [...]

Adam

October 30th, 2011
8:01 pm

“What if we create a better world for nothing?”