Climate-change skeptic: ‘You should not be a skeptic.’

Richard Muller, a physics professor at Cal-Berkeley, has been a celebrated skeptic about the true extent of climate change.

Muller has questioned whether the data had been skewed by the “heat-island effect.” He has had his doubts about the so-called “hockey stick,” which shows global temperatures rising much faster since the early 19th century than at any point in the last thousand years. In the past, he has called the hockey stick “an incredible error” and “the artifact of poor mathematics.” And he has been quite harsh in his condemnation of fellow scientists involved in the s0-called ClimateGate scandal:

“I frankly as a scientist — I now have a list of people whose papers I’m won’t read anymore. You’re not allowed to do this in science. This is not up to our standards.”

So Muller, acting in the best traditions of science, decided to redo that work. He put together a top-notch team that included Saul Perlmutter, who just recently won the Nobel Prize in physics, and Judith Curry of Georgia Tech, another noted scientist who has been critical of some of the work of some of her peers. Their project — funded in part by a grant from the Charles M. Koch Foundation — just completed its two-year work.

Last week, Muller and the Berkeley Earth Surface Temperature team released its findings (the results have yet to undergo peer review). As Muller described it:

Our biggest surprise was that the new results agreed so closely with the warming values published previously by other teams in the US and the UK. This confirms that these studies were done carefully and that potential biases identified by climate change skeptics did not seriously affect their conclusions.

As he wrote in the Wall Street Journal:

“When we began our study, we felt that skeptics had raised legitimate issues, and we didn’t know what we’d find. Our results turned out to be close to those published by prior groups. We think that means that those groups had truly been very careful in their work, despite their inability to convince some skeptics of that. They managed to avoid bias in their data selection, homogenization and other corrections.”

Here’s a chart produced by Muller’s team, documenting the findings of three other research teams as well as the BEST team. Note how closely the findings track each other.

climategraph

This is how science works. It checks upon itself. And when the position that you had previously taken has been proved false, you do what Muller has done:

You change your position.

– Jay Bookman

399 comments Add your comment

Joe COOL

October 24th, 2011
12:51 pm

Adam

October 24th, 2011
12:54 pm

wow. I am getting popcorn to watch the spin masters at work here.

Cue the “He was never a REAL skeptic” skeptical remarks, and other such useless and yet common nonsense.

Adam

October 24th, 2011
12:59 pm

Bruno: That is good data. It clearly shows that our current “cycle” is seeing a shift that is abnormal for the cyclical data. So thank you for showing that.

kitty

October 24th, 2011
1:00 pm

Adam, also cue, “well, he’s from Berkeley so what do you expect?” as well.

getalife

October 24th, 2011
1:00 pm

The bias is caused by big oil bribes.

I think our troops should be trained on helping after disasters in the world due to this issue.

Peadawg

October 24th, 2011
1:02 pm

“Climate-change skeptic: ‘You should not be a skeptic.’”

It’s the “man-made” part that people are skeptical about. Climate has changed for millions of years. Anyone who denies that is an idiot.

Man-assisted? Yes. Man-made? You should be on Comedy Central with that sh*t.

Road Scholar

October 24th, 2011
1:03 pm

Graphs in color…that will blow the conservative’s minds…esp in Celsius!

JF McNamara

October 24th, 2011
1:03 pm

He’s already done the harm to public perception. It doesn’t really matter if he changes his position, because less intelligent people won’t change their opinions.

As it turns out, he was an irresponsible scientist who got used as a pawn in a political game. He should be treated in the same regard treated his fellow scientists.

Adam

October 24th, 2011
1:04 pm

Peadawg: I think it’s pretty clear by now that most people who say “man made” know that there are ALSO forces other than man that alter climates. It’s a verbal gaffe at this point and if we’re really going to get that technical we should apply similar stringent logic to everyone who says anything even slightly off. That will surely get tiring.

getalife

October 24th, 2011
1:08 pm

I like when cons pretend to be scientists :)

Bruno

October 24th, 2011
1:11 pm

Oops: correction–The CO2 concentration now is higher than the historic spikes by 10-20%, thought the temperature spike is similar. Failing eyesight to blame there. ;-)

saywhat?

October 24th, 2011
1:11 pm

I bet they didn’t take into account sunspots, yeah, sunspots, and that in the seventies they thought there was global cooling, and um, um, it’s Al Gore just trying to make money. There. I just disproved 100 years of scientific research in 60 seconds from my computer and didn’t take a penny of oil company money.

Adam

October 24th, 2011
1:11 pm

Bruno: You didn’t look at the actual data as compared to levels found now. Our current CO2 levels have risen much faster than any time in the data that we can analyze (such as the 400k years you have presented) and are projected to continue to do so. The levels of CO2 that I last saw measured were of the 90s, and they MATCHED closely the highest point in those graphs. It is safe to assume the levels have risen since then, since very little has been done globally to reduce the CO2 output.

ty webb

October 24th, 2011
1:11 pm

can’t we just give more money to solyndra and be done with it?

Peadawg

October 24th, 2011
1:12 pm

Adam,

“Man-made” and “man-assisted” have 2 very distinct meanings. You should say what you mean and mean what you say. As precise as science is, you’d think we could use the correct terminology by now.

Adam

October 24th, 2011
1:12 pm

Bruno: I see your correction and raise you a “sorry I posted after your correction” correction :D

Daedalus

October 24th, 2011
1:12 pm

Science? Who cares what scientist think. As far as the GOP Presidential field cares, its what the Tea Party folks believe, and that ain’t global warming, evolution or any other trendy sciency stuff.

Did dinosaurs roam the earth 6,000 years ago? You betcha. Cause that’s what the creationists say.

The Scarlet A

October 24th, 2011
1:12 pm

Call it like it is

October 24th, 2011
1:13 pm

Whats your point Jay? When its a slow news day it seems like you alway go back to the old climate thing. Okay lets say this is all correct, what are we to do. Americans turn in their cars, all flights are cancled, China going to clean up their act, India will stop turning their rivers into cess pools. What do the scientists say we as humans need to do at this moment to stop the heating of the earth, and will the entire human race do it?

Surprised, you havent hit on Libya going over to Sharia Law yet.

Adam

October 24th, 2011
1:13 pm

Peadawg: It’s important to recognize what people actually mean. Call them out on it enough and I am sure you’ll see the wording change. But as precise as science is, public opinion is fickle. If you continue to make this call out, you get a bunch more people talking about how it’s OBVIOUS that we don’t know ANYTHING because we keep changing our minds, or something. Therefore, no Climate Change *sticks fingers in ears and blows a raspberry*

Adam

October 24th, 2011
1:15 pm

Call it like it is: Okay lets say this is all correct, what are we to do.

That is the proper conversation to have at this point, instead of “LALALALA I CAN’T HEAR YOU!” that we’ve been getting for the past few decades from skeptics.

What are we to do? Let’s think about it and talk about it so we come to a responsible choice on the matter.

Jay

October 24th, 2011
1:16 pm

Climate has changed for millions of years. Anyone who denies that is an idiot.

In other words, Peadawg, anybody who pushed that “ClimateGate” meme was an idiot?

The whole controversy focused on whether the earth was warming. The scientists in question said it was. Their critics said it wasn’t, that their numbers were fraudulant and cooked.

Now that the scientists have yet again been proved right, we’re seeing a spate of “well nobody really questioned whether the climate was warming anyway” talk, which is total BS.

Adam

October 24th, 2011
1:18 pm

Jay: “well nobody really questioned whether the climate was warming anyway”

*shovels down more popcorn*

Granny Godzilla

October 24th, 2011
1:18 pm

Call it like it is

What are we do do?

Well some can stand around wondering…but some of us are leading by example.

Together, each of us doing something, is better than standing around with the “duh” look on ones face.

Do not let “China won’t do it” be an excuse for you doing nothing.

(Or I suppose, YOU can continue to poop where you dine)

Adam

October 24th, 2011
1:18 pm

MEETING, then LUNCH

Libertarian

October 24th, 2011
1:18 pm

Yawn. No point in America worrying about global warming when China and India don’t give a crap about it.

Jefferson

October 24th, 2011
1:19 pm

Somebody will worry that their boss might tell them to ingor it.

Bruno

October 24th, 2011
1:19 pm

Bruno: I see your correction and raise you a “sorry I posted after your correction” correction

So, in the end, I think both “sides” are right: If we are to believe the Antarctic Ice Core data, there are naturally occurring spikes in both CO2 and temperature through history. The current spike is different insofar as the CO2 level is higher by say, 20%. Will the temperatures start falling again as they have in the past, or is this time different?? My feeling is that neither one of us will be alive long enough to find out.

Common Sense

October 24th, 2011
1:21 pm

And once again we just happened to live at the right times with the right temperatures out of millions of years of existence of this planet.

Weren’t we lucky?

stands for decibels

October 24th, 2011
1:22 pm

Jay, given the topic of discussion and the sort of comments generated on this subject in the past, at some point you might want to employ the services of the new website described here.

Jay

October 24th, 2011
1:23 pm

Not lucky at all, Common. It didn’t happen by chance: We evolved to match the climate, and so did every other living creature on this planet. Those that could not evolve to match the climate disappeared.

Jm

October 24th, 2011
1:23 pm

On topic: jay agree
And glad you could change your position on GSE’s role in the crisis and their oversight :)

Off topic

Republicans at the state level have been adding private sector jobs at a rate 0.18% faster than democrat governors

Over a decade, that’s an extra 2.6 million jobs

And that’s with a democrat in the whitehouse

Think what can be done if Obama is replaced….

Granny Godzilla

October 24th, 2011
1:23 pm

Libertarian

October 24th, 2011
1:18 pm
Yawn. No point in America worrying about global warming when China and India don’t give a crap about it.

Well isn’t THAT special

godless heathen

October 24th, 2011
1:25 pm

1 degree C rise in 200 years. OMG! Run for the hills. Stop driving, stop industry, stop everything! Especially stop those developing nations from doing any more developing.

Climate change is real. Constant climate is unrealistic.

Rapid climate change has been documented in the past and man has adapted (even flourished) as we (rather our descendents) will.

In only about 10,000 years humans spread out of Africa to every nook and cranny of the planet, cold and hot. In another few thousands of years, humans will inhabit other worlds. The exponential growth of technology will far outpace the threat of minor climatic fluctuations on earth.

Chill.

Bruno

October 24th, 2011
1:27 pm

Those that could not evolve to match the climate disappeared.

A tautology, Jay, same as the “survival of the fittest”.

We evolved to match the climate

The bigger question is do we “evolve” actively, intelligently, or is it all a random process, the luck of the draw kind of thing??

Jm

October 24th, 2011
1:27 pm

Carbon tax fixes pollution from Asia by charging them for their dirty ways

Cap and trade doesn’t nearly as well

Call it like it is

October 24th, 2011
1:27 pm

“Do not let “China won’t do it” be an excuse for you doing nothing”

No I’m not worried about China, but several of your here are touting the high road, are you willing at this moment to go without your car, no plane travel, give up AC in the summer time, quit wasting power on computer monitors by reading useless blogs, quit watching TV and on and on. See its real easy to say oh I have belived in global warming the whole time, I believe in it so much that I have done NOTHING to stop it. Beside changing out light bulbs have you really done anything to support your beliefs? Just by posting back to this, you will have proved my point.

Soothsayer

October 24th, 2011
1:28 pm

How do you like your crow: well-done or pan-seared?

AmVet

October 24th, 2011
1:28 pm

Bruno, the chart you linked, though hard to read accurately due to the huge time spans involved, indicates that those ’spikes’ in CO2 concentrations took thousands of years to manifest themselves.

The straight vertical line at the very end of that graph is even larger in magnitude and has apparently happened in a very few decades.

This corroborates all of the information I have read on this matter. The changes we see now have happened in the geological blink of any eye – NOT over millennium as all of the previous ones have.

THAT is the obvious red flag that so concerns the scientific experts. And the one that Libertarian and others driven by ideology dismiss…

getalife

October 24th, 2011
1:28 pm

Change is constant.

A do nothing obstructionist party is destined to fail.

Profits over the planet means our planet loses like the 99 %.

The 1 % should not be allowed to destroy our planet or our country.

Jm

October 24th, 2011
1:29 pm

Well, at least we’re now debating what, if anything to do now, and not the science itself

Jay

October 24th, 2011
1:29 pm

Wow jm. I didn’t know governors had the power to add private-sector jobs like that. Somebody ought to tell Nathan Deal, don’t you think?

And 0.18 percent, you say? I’m sure that’s a statistically significant number, after controlling for all the other variables at play in our 57 states. Right?

Oh, and by the way, over the past year the state to add the largest numbers of jobs was California, not Texas.

stands for decibels

October 24th, 2011
1:30 pm

For the innumerate among us– we need about 120K new jobs per month in order to tread water, and over over the course of a decade that’d be 14,400,000 total.

To tread water.

Over a decade, that’s an extra 2.6 million jobs

Yeah, that 2.6 million hypothetical jobs from your Gooper guvs, that’d be tres impressive.

Butch Cassidy

October 24th, 2011
1:30 pm

Libertarian – “Yawn. No point in America worrying about global warming when China and India don’t give a crap about it.”

Yawn, no point in America worrying about clean air and water, fair wages and labor laws, the denial of nuclear power to terrorist nations when China and India don’t give a crap about it.

Soothsayer

October 24th, 2011
1:31 pm

Jay, I done tried an tried and I cain’t git me and the Wife’s egos to fit in one of them “small cars.” So I guess we’re gonna have to keep the Excursion. So there.

King of ALL

October 24th, 2011
1:32 pm

He was a “Skeptic in name only”

Jm

October 24th, 2011
1:32 pm

Godless 1:25
U mean really over the last 50 years
And let’s keep in mind we weren’t burning the midnight oil all 50 of those years

There are good reasons to do what we can to fix it, within reason

A degree Celsius every 50 years and in 100 years we’ll be cooking and in 500 it will all be over

Paul

October 24th, 2011
1:32 pm

“This is how science works. It checks upon itself. And when the position that you had previously taken has been proved false, you do what Muller has done:

You change your position.”

Or you stick your fingers in your ears and cry “fake! fraud! Only dummies believe science!”

Hey, we oughta send this to Perry’s campaign!

Butch Cassidy

October 24th, 2011
1:33 pm

godless heathen – “Rapid climate change has been documented in the past and man has adapted (even flourished) as we (rather our descendents) will.”

Yeah, look how well we did last year when Atlanta turned in to a giant ice flow.

Granny Godzilla

October 24th, 2011
1:33 pm

Call it like it is

We cut our family’s use of fossil fuel by 50%

Looking forward to being able to do more.

What are YOU doing? Anything?

Anything at all?

Jm

October 24th, 2011
1:34 pm

Jay 1:29 they can’t. I said that for brevity.

They can only provide a pro growth environment. But it works.

Bruno

October 24th, 2011
1:34 pm

Well, at least we’re now debating what, if anything to do now, and not the science itself

From my point of view, that’s never been in question: develop fuel sources which don’t involve burning things. As to date, none of the alternatives are cheaper than burning coal, oil, and natural gas. The price of solar has dropped dramatically the past few decades, so it’s probably just a matter of time.

Thulsa Doom

October 24th, 2011
1:35 pm

Bruno,

There was an interesting national geographic special on this very ice core drilling project in the ant-Arctic. The consensus among the scientists was that the earth is in fact in a warming cycle. They just didn’t know exactly how much of it was natural vs man made greenhouse gasses. But they said one thing that pretty much put to bed the argument for me. They said that the lag time that it would take for the ice sheets and polar cap to completely melt and for the corresponding rises in sea levels to roughly 80 feet higher than what they are today would take hundreds if not thousands of years. We are already very slowly beginning the transition to an electric car economy and I suspect over the next 100 years at least here we will transform to a successful electric battery economy provided the greens don’t stop us from rebuilding nuclear power. But I just don’t see this doomsday scenario unfolding in 50 or 100 years as the alarmists like to portray it happening.

Don't Tread

October 24th, 2011
1:35 pm

Is the temperature data even reliable?

http://www.surfacestations.org

A quick look at the graph on that site indicates that the vast majority of the temperature sensors have an error of at least +1C.

Common Sense

October 24th, 2011
1:35 pm

Yet by those comments you and others have decided that the planet has evolved enough and therefore we should freeze it at this state.

Of all the generations that ever existed, we are the chosen ones to experience the perfection of balance.

The arrogance on display here is amazing.

Jay

October 24th, 2011
1:37 pm

Well Tread, I have posted on this very blog the work of a team of very well-credentialed scientists, including a new Nobel winner, who looked at that question closely and skeptically and concluded the answer is yes, it is quite reliable.

On the other hand, we have you…..

Jm

October 24th, 2011
1:38 pm

Sfd 1:30 provided evidence of republicans doing better than dems, dismisses it as not big enough

But doesn’t dismiss the fact that R’s are doing better than D’s over the last 12 months

Losing the argument, sfd does.

AmVet

October 24th, 2011
1:38 pm

Ah yes, Paul.

Mr. Global Cooling himself – Rick Perry.

What is it with these guys???

Jimmy62

October 24th, 2011
1:39 pm

Muller has been saying there was global warming since the 70’s. He’s a skeptic only in that he said “I”m a skeptic.” His actual work for three decades shows otherwise as far as global warming. He was talking about it long before Gore.

That’s how it works in journalism, you do research. Jay doesn’t do that, though, so I guess he’s not really a journalist.

stands for decibels

October 24th, 2011
1:41 pm

I concede, jm. Yea, verily, your itty bitty factoid about Gooper governors winning a race to the bottom of providing crap jobs in a crap economy over a cherrypicked timespan blows my big-picture nonsense out of the water.

Jimmy62

October 24th, 2011
1:42 pm

Granny; Fossil fuel usage in the US has been declining. It was in decline before Kyoto, it’s been declining since we didn’t sign Kyoto. The countries that did sign Kyoto have seen rising CO2 output. The problem is not now the US, nor was it ever. The problem is everyone else who hasn’t reached our level of development. So you can either force them to live in poverty, or you can let them spit out some CO2. Either way, technology will solve the problem long before remembering to turn off the lights will.

Bruno

October 24th, 2011
1:43 pm

But I just don’t see this doomsday scenario unfolding in 50 or 100 years as the alarmists like to portray it happening.

TD–Great to see you. While Paul and some others here were apparently focusing on the most inflammatory of the global warming “deniers”, the mainstream conservative message has remained the same. We’re all in support of developing “alternative” fuel sources. It’s more a matter of alarmist vs. non-alarmist, IMO.

St Simons - we're on Island time

October 24th, 2011
1:43 pm

Ohh, the cons will have to invent another word salad talky-point.

“Climate change-haha no way” – oops, tactical retreat

“There’s climate change, nobody said there wasn’t” but it’s not man-made! (whatever the flip THAT means) – oops, tactical retreat

and watch them, watch them, they’ve already got a revisionist word surgeon on this one. It’ll be “oh, we always believed climate change was man-ASSISTED”, (or something like that),

Con – wrong about everything – since 1929

Bosch

October 24th, 2011
1:43 pm

There goes their funding!

Paul

October 24th, 2011
1:44 pm

AmVet

“What is it with these guys???”

He thinks scientists do what they do and say what they say because someone pays them off.

In other words, he thinks others are just like him.

Don't Tread

October 24th, 2011
1:44 pm

I really don’t see how locating temperature sensors next to parking lots and air conditioner units doesn’t introduce error, but I guess common sense isn’t all that common any more.

WOODSTOCK MIKE

October 24th, 2011
1:45 pm

Speaking of the environment, Obama just threw another $400 million dollars to a car manufacturer in Finland to help produce “green” cars. Price tag on the cars, 80K each. Somehow I doubt the average American is going to be driving around in one of these. And guess who owns a big piece of the company, the Google founders. Man, I didn’t realize they needed a government loan? What are they worth now, double digit billions??

Recon (2nd.and 3rd.)

October 24th, 2011
1:45 pm

It’s the economy stupid. Trade deficits, budget deficits along with too much government that’s overpowering our private sector will kill us a helluva lot sooner than will climate change.

Paul

October 24th, 2011
1:46 pm

Bruno

“While Paul and some others here were apparently focusing on the most inflammatory of the global warming “deniers”, the mainstream conservative message has remained the same. We’re all in support of developing “alternative” fuel sources. It’s more a matter of alarmist vs. non-alarmist, IMO.”

You’re saying the mainstream conservative message is that manmade climate change is real and is supported by science, and the only area of disagreement is over how to mitigate the effects?

Do I have that correct?

AmVet

October 24th, 2011
1:47 pm

Cue up the dabbling around the edges arguments.

One of the more popular, being the sinister placement of the temperature measuring devices.

If only the vast left wing conspiracy gang understood that over 70% of the measuring devices are atop buoys afloat in the world’s oceans. And are MUCH less immune to variations.

As for the surface station chart linked, it is interesting , but not terribly useful.

As it only shows measuring devices in the USA.

This problem is being monitored around the globe as it is a global issue…

getalife

October 24th, 2011
1:47 pm

jm is the onion on this blog.

Recon (2nd.and 3rd.)

October 24th, 2011
1:48 pm

“And guess who owns a big piece of the company, the Google founders. Man, I didn’t realize they needed a government loan? What are they worth now, double digit billions??”

Yeah but they’re Obama supporters.

w

October 24th, 2011
1:48 pm

AGW is clearly a wealth transfer scam. No doubt. You can almost draw a line between those that stand to benefit and those that stand to lose by for and against.

WOODSTOCK MIKE

October 24th, 2011
1:48 pm

Man Al Gore sure has made himself a rich man off of global warming…

Jm

October 24th, 2011
1:49 pm

Sfd
“I concede, jm”
Well done. Good of you to be honest.
Btw, I didn’t cherry pick, I just did the last year and wanted to see the results. And whether it’s a good or bad economy, adding more jobs is good. So thanks.

Butch Cassidy

October 24th, 2011
1:50 pm

I don’t get it, when it comes to the defecit or over spending, everyone starts crying that “we are spending our childrens and grandchildrens future”. But when it comes to climate change, the immidiate message is “F em! Nice.

Paul

October 24th, 2011
1:50 pm

Woodstock Mike

And many megachurch televangelists have made themselves rich off Christianity.

A charlatan perverts the message. He doesn’t invalidate the message.

godless heathen

October 24th, 2011
1:50 pm

You are right, looked at it wrong.

1^ C from 1810 to 1940 and 1^C from 1940 to 2010.
1^ in 139 years and 1^ in 70 years.

“A degree Celsius every 50 years and in 100 years we’ll be cooking”

That I doubt seriously and who is “we”, kemo sabe?

Jm

October 24th, 2011
1:51 pm

Getalife
I’m a vidalia then.

Boris Badnoff

October 24th, 2011
1:52 pm

Here’s the real story on The Convert.

http://blogs.dailymail.com/donsurber/archives/44855

If you want to read something literate about this here it is

http://s8int.com/crichton.html

Climate science should be debated in scientific circles. It was turned into a political football by Fat Albert Gort who is raking in dough from the gullible nervous nellies. I do not fear Global temperature variations but I am terrified of ManBearPig.

Jm

October 24th, 2011
1:52 pm

Getalife
I’m sorry if I make you cry though. Buck up, Republicans will fix things.

getalife

October 24th, 2011
1:52 pm

del,

In other words, you don’t understand science so you mindlessly lie about our President.

As usual.

Then mikey opines:

“Man Al Gore sure has made himself a rich man off of global warming…”

Lord help us.

Granny Godzilla

October 24th, 2011
1:53 pm

jimmy62

duh, we all know that. some of us helped that along…

care to try for something constructive?

Woodstock Mike

Did the money go to Finland or are you telling a fib?

That said, in case you haven’t noticed, new technology is expensive, but the cost drops over time.

I got what used to be several rooms of technological hardawre in my little bitty laptop for under 400.00.

JIMBOB

October 24th, 2011
1:54 pm

Atmospheric gas changes are lagging temperature changes from hundreds of years ago. Why would anyone be all up in arms? Ice core samples proved this.

Not surprisingly, the biggest peddlers of this scam are the UN, politicians, and their propagandists that fill the MSM.

barking frog

October 24th, 2011
1:54 pm

If you accept a warming climate, what will you do about it ? This summer I cut off the
air conditioner and opened the windows and sweated away 10 lbs, no wait… that
was just because I couldn’t afford to pay Georgia Power’s high rates…GP may be
helping to save mankind…with the assistance of the PSC!

AmVet

October 24th, 2011
1:55 pm

A charlatan perverts the message. He doesn’t invalidate the message.

Niiice!

And a damn fine, if not dastardly, refudiation of that irrelevant red herring about Mr. Gore, Paul…

getalife

October 24th, 2011
1:55 pm

“Republicans will fix things”

Yeah, like they did last time and hand over their disasters to the dems.

Look up the definition of insanity jm.

You nailed it..

Soothsayer

October 24th, 2011
1:55 pm

Have you ever noticed how the Fright Wing, when confronted with incontrovertible evidence that blows their entire assumptions out of the water, resort to “attack and distract” tactics. Witness the “Al Gore profits from global warming” posts. Very interesting.

Jm

October 24th, 2011
1:56 pm

Godless 1:50
If I typed 100, I meant 500
Yeah, we’ll be gone. But our future generations won’t (depending on your age and life expectancy)

I’m against debt and climate change so much because they are both incredibly difficult to change later and a very big burden to bear

Big Brother

October 24th, 2011
1:57 pm

“According to Time magazine, global warming is 33% worse than we thought. You know what that means? Al Gore is one-third more annoying than we thought.” –Jay Leno

“They say if the warming trend continues, by 2015 Hillary Clinton might actually thaw out.” –Jay Leno, on global warming

“Al Gore announced he is finishing up a new book about global warming and the environment. Yeah, the first chapter talks about how you shouldn’t chop down trees to make a book that no one will read.” –Conan O’Brien

Creed

October 24th, 2011
1:57 pm

Man-made or not.

If man-made, can mere mortals and their money bring change?

Obama didn’t.

Bookman’s next topic? Pick one:

Wealth distribution.

GOP presidential candidates.

Another climate change piece.

Another revolution, OWS or otherwise.

yawn

Bruno

October 24th, 2011
1:57 pm

You’re saying the mainstream conservative message is that manmade climate change is real and is supported by science, and the only area of disagreement is over how to mitigate the effects? Do I have that correct?

Not exactly. We’ve all been looking at the same graphs, just interpreting them differently. The “conservative” interpretation is that there have always been long-term fluctuations in temperature, as the Antarctic Ice Core chart I linked above shows. And while CO2 levels are higher than during past temp spikes, there hasn’t been a corresponding, catastrophic increase in temperatures–yet. Because climatology is far from being an “exact” science, any predictions about are ultimate fate are unreliable. In the meantime, we all support prudent management of the planet which involves developing alternative energy sources which are economically viable.

Does that clear things up??

Eric

October 24th, 2011
1:57 pm

I have never been a skeptic of the warming. The climate goes through cycles. I don’t believe that we should spend billions of dollars for something we probably can’t stop.

WOODSTOCK MIKE

October 24th, 2011
1:57 pm

getalife

Are you denying that Al Gore has become rich by exploiting global warming? I don’t deny global warming but god help you if you don’t realize Al Gore is laughing at you all the way to the bank.

Soothsayer

October 24th, 2011
1:58 pm

“This summer I cut off the air conditioner and opened the windows and sweated away 10 lbs”

What on Earth did people do before there was air conditioning?

Jm

October 24th, 2011
1:59 pm

And godless. 500 years is a blink of an eye historically speaking

With a little work, you can trace your ancestors back that far

Nazan Yar

October 24th, 2011
1:59 pm

As with nearly every issue, the real crux is economics, or the real or perceived value of ‘improvement.’ I think everyone would agree that being responsible in some form or fashion for our actions is important and worth some amount of time/money. Maybe for someone it’s only worth spending $5/year for some improvement X. for another it’s worth billions of dollars for improvement X. I’d rather see an objective article based on some commonality on what’s ‘worth it.’

Eric

October 24th, 2011
1:59 pm

The best thing to do to “clean the earth” is to promote economic freedom around the world. Look at the poorest countries around the world and you will notice how much trash and garbage is in the streets and towns. The water is contaminated as well.

global warming solution

October 24th, 2011
1:59 pm

I say, take out about one billion climate change skeptics and we will be fine. One billion less people breathing out CO2 can and will save the environment

Granny Godzilla

October 24th, 2011
2:00 pm

woodstock mike

al gore was born wealthy….

envious?

who’s laughing at who?