‘Occupy’ movement giving voice to legitimate fears
Instead of using police officers to oust protesters from Woodruff Park, Atlanta Mayor Kasim Reed has wisely decided to wait and see, hoping that the passage of time and the threat of sub-freezing temperatures will clear the park for him.
Maybe it will, but I’m doubtful. Critics of the Occupy movement claim that those involved are not representative of the American mainstream, and they’re right. People who camp for weeks on end as a form of political protest, and who risk or even force their own arrest by acts of civil disobedience, are by definition not mainstream. They are more extreme than the rest of us.
However, that doesn’t mean that they are divorced from mainstream thoughts or concerns. To the contrary, they’re a lot closer to tapping into what’s really happening in America than are the targets of their protests on Wall Street.
On a visit to the scene Tuesday afternoon, I saw a lot of signs quoting well-known outrageous radicals such as Sam Adams, Abraham Lincoln and Franklin Roosevelt. One woman with an audience of one was reading aloud from a piece of subversive literature, something about it being easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.
Near the center of the encampment of some 70 tents, somebody had erected a section of unpainted wooden fence, with a sign asking “What’s your story?” The fence is full of authentic American stories scrawled on the wood with Magic Markers and Sharpies.
“I am 24 years old,” one person wrote. “I go to school and work full-time and get an average of four hours of sleep a night. I am hoping the degree I earn will help me pay off my $80,000 student loan. The outlook of this is dim. With every day that goes by more and more jobs in this country are lost. It seems most are going to other countries so corporations can make more money …. My mother’s house in Michigan was foreclosed on and she now lives with her mother in Tennessee. A 46-year old woman who has to live with her mom and has done nothing but work hard all her life.”
“All my life I’ve seen ‘immigrants’ being denied the right to receive scholarships to go to school and I’ve seen citizens being drowned in debt due to going to school,” another writes. “And once they finish, NO JOBS. So what’s the point anymore?”
“My son and granddaughter are unemployed,” someone else wrote, explaining that the bank stock that the family had owned was now worthless. “I am 70 and have no job or money. The banks *&#$ed everyone.”
As in other Occupy sites around the country, the vast majority of the participants are young people, and a recurring theme is anguish at the prospect of graduating from college with a heavy debt load and no jobs. The American Dream no longer seems realistic to many of them. In the Vietnam era, protests were dominated by young people who felt the threat of the draft most directly, and if that pattern is repeating itself, it’s for similar reasons. Among men ages 20-25, for example, the September unemployment rate was 15.8 percent, a number that badly underestimates the true scale of the problem, since many in that age group never had a chance to officially join the full-time workforce in the first place.
So yes, we can run off those protesters and take down that fence. But the problem is, it won’t make those stories go away. The people who are living those stories aren’t going away either. The sense of inequity in an economy in which millions are jobless and have lost their homes to foreclosure, while corporate profits are at record high, is not going to change unless the situation changes. Because for every story written on a wooden fence, there are several hundred thousand others in which the principal characters have so far suffered in silence.
The protesters are not the people we should turn to for answers or solutions, but that’s not their role. Their role is to give voice to a problem, and you have to believe that voice will get louder and louder.
– Jay Bookman
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607 comments Add your comment
Dull. Dull. Dull.
October 19th, 2011
9:28 am
Bookman’s blogs are full of the same 5 or 6 people alternately patting each other on the back and hurling insults at each other. Yawn.
Aquagirl
October 19th, 2011
9:28 am
However, there is no rational explanation for claiming that this was largely his fault
Of course there is…Barney Frank is gay. The Gay Agenda includes destroying ‘Merica As We Know It. Therefore gay guy in Congress = economic collapse, to be followed by social and moral destruction, and then we will all be forced to marry bisexual pet rocks.
Silly Jay always overlooks the obvious.
Anxious to Join History Making Cause
October 19th, 2011
9:28 am
I like the purpose behind this movement but I am confused as to how it is being organized. I am hoping that they will have a big march here in Atlanta so I can be a part of it. It will be nice to participate in a “real history making event” that will change the course from where this country is headed! Does anyone have any info on marches that have been planned?
Ricky B / jm
October 19th, 2011
9:28 am
Jay, you said he was powerless. You want to stand by that statement and say: “the ranking minority member of the House Financial Services committee was powerless”?
Because that’s what you’re saying. You know how ridiculous that sounds?
And now you’re changing your tune and saying Bush was all powerful. If so, why didn’t this happen. Backtracking alert…..
Just admit you’re wrong and move on. Digging a deeper whole when you’re already in deep is not a good idea.
Generation$crewed
October 19th, 2011
9:29 am
Is manufacturing not a good enough job?
http://news.yahoo.com/many-u-manufacturing-jobs-few-skilled-workers-211104184.html
Maybe an office job is what one would like?
http://www.nvworkforceconnections.org/2011/02/companies-having-trouble-filling-jobs/
Here are some that are more hands on?
http://www.ere.net/2011/08/25/americas-tough-jobs-are-getting-even-tougher-to-fill/
No doubt it is hard times out there right now. However sitting in a park for a couple of weeks is a sure fire way to get a job. Maybe allow the dreads to get a lil dirtier, that is always what employers are looking for.
Not saying it is tough out there, but it seems some are saying they cannot get the job they want.
You may have to re-locate, you may have to make some tough sacrafices, may even have to start over and get trained in an entirely new field.
But there are ways to find employment it may just not be what one is wanting to do.
TaxPayer
October 19th, 2011
9:29 am
But, Barney spoke and the Republican majority melted. Maybe it was his purple color that done them in.
Republicans and their tall tales. They are a hoot.
Adam
October 19th, 2011
9:29 am
commoncents: We’re already in the ground, chief
And the Republican solution is to pound us even further into the ground.
Jay
October 19th, 2011
9:30 am
It’s not as if Frank were operating in the Senate, where the 60-vote rule gives the minority some power. He was a member of the House, where the GOP ran roughshod over the Democrats throughout that era. Frank had no power to decide a damn thing, no power to control or even influence legislation. Those powers lay entirely with the Republican majority.
Yet somehow it’s the fault of the Jewish gay guy from Massachusetts. Right.
carlosgvv
October 19th, 2011
9:31 am
Dogone/GA – 8:35
There is another problem with this advice also. Most of us do not have the necessary apptitudes in math and science to be able to earn degrees in these fields. Math is the basis of all science, but Math is hard and only a reletatively few can earn degrees in Math and Math related fields. Most of us are liberal arts types and, unfortunately, jobs are scarce in these areas. This is the dirty little secret that educators don’t want to talk about.
sam
October 19th, 2011
9:31 am
Bill Orvis White…scary mf’er
Peadawg
October 19th, 2011
9:31 am
“And the Republican solution is to pound us even further into the ground.” – Obama has beaten them to it.
Joe Mama
October 19th, 2011
9:31 am
Jay — “So how did he perform this magic you attribute to him? Did he threaten to beat up the GOP majority? Did he bat his eyelashes in their general direction, or exert some strange Svengali-like control over those hapless, besotted Republicans? How exactly, as one minority member of a 435-member chamber, did Barney Frank manage to dictate what happened with Fannie and Freddie?”
I’d also like to know how he wrecked the commercial real estate market, especially since Fannie and Freddie weren’t able to touch commercial real estate. I’d also like for him to explain how Barney Frank also managed to simultaneously wreck the housing markets of the UK, Spain, Greece, Portugal, Ireland and other nations, because if he did, then clearly Barney Frank is one cosmically-powerful mofo.
Ricky B / jm
October 19th, 2011
9:32 am
Jay 9:26 no. Multitasking
USinUK
October 19th, 2011
9:32 am
Jay – jm doesn’t seem to comprehend the concept “minority” … he just sees “leader”
MichaelP
October 19th, 2011
9:33 am
As usual, we spend our time pointing fingers and laying blame, rather than coming together as AMERICANS and trying to solve the issue.
“Clear the park by ANY MEANS NECESSARY?!!” This isn’t Billy Jack IV…no one is going to buy off the local cops and send in the S.W.A.T. Team to clear the parks…that’s Communism.
And yes…lets all go back and read the Bill of Rights…especially the part where it speaks of ones rights to ‘Peaceful Assembly’.
The Occupiers speak of job creation and debt reduction…okay, so lets get real. This is the one area where I disagree with them slightly. The do not wish to support the new State Bill regarding illegal aliens; a group of people (and I don’t care which border they pole-vaulted over) who has NO desire nor inclination to become a member of this great society; COULD CARE LESS about becoming citizens; heavily taxes and takes advantage of our welfare and hospital systems; some commit serious crimes within our borders and then jump back over the border back to their own country to escape prosecution; and want us to promote their remaining here and burdening our system further by our catering to them in THEIR native language…teaching their children in school in THEIR native language…conduct business with them in THEIR native language, etc. I recently was confronted by a Hispanic man in my store who couldn’t speak a word of english, yet stated to a Spanish speaking co-worker that he has been in this country illegally four over 25 YEARS! How can anyone live in a forgein country for a quarter of a century and NOT learn the language?! And just so you know that I am not a rascist, my mother and father are BOTH naturalized citizens, originally from Mexico, and they AGREE WITH ME! If you don’t want to do it right and become true citizens and members of this country, then get you butts back to where you came from.
Affirmative Action means to learn to stand on your own two feet…and that means everyone!
I don’t file for unemployment or go on welfare,..I find another job! I have a Ph.D and two Masters Degrees, but when I had to, I worked at a car wash to support my family. A blow to my ego? Frankly, yes…but my family still ate well and we managed to pay our bills, albeit late on occasion.
We, as a nation, need to quit depending on our government to solve our issues. The Left and the Right are sooo far removed from everyday life, they can no longer see the forest for the trees, and all the new Obamanation can manage to do is think of more ways to spend more tax-payer dollars to line the pockets of huge corporations who also don’t care about us, or even the workers they hire to bring in all those profits to allow the higher-ups to pay the monthly note on their Mercedes.
This country needs to organize a National Strike akin to what’s going on in Greece so that the politicains can see just how frustrating it truly is to want to get something or have something done, and NOT be able to accomplish it.
Paul
October 19th, 2011
9:33 am
Stunning avoidance by the Right regarding the responsibility of Wall Street and big banks for the financial collapse, evaporation of trillions of dollars and economic ruin for millions of Americans.
Blame the victims instead.
Adam
October 19th, 2011
9:33 am
Talking Head: Asking the government to bail out the student loans and placing $1 trillion on the taxpayers is the same irresponsible behavior that took place in 2008.
No, it’s not even close to the same. You think that students are going to take their massive profits that they are already gaining to buy out other students and then charge the general American public extra fees and foreclose on their parents’ houses once they get bailed out?
While I agree debts need to be paid, there needs to be some reform for the system. If someone can’t get a job with the education that they got loans for, they should NOT have to make payments or have interest accrue until they can finally find a job and start building up some cash. We could start there.
Talking Head
October 19th, 2011
9:33 am
wow…i haven’t really been paying attention the Barney Frank debate going on here, but it is clear that Jay and the other libs have lost any point they were attempting to make since they are now talking about Barney Franks’s sexual preference and that fact that he is gay.
Typical lib argument
stands for decibels
October 19th, 2011
9:34 am
I so love how this comments thread has become, somehow, about how certain people just know that those lazy college kidz coulda paid off those loans and why don’t they get off my lawn?
sheesh. Predictable much?
Also,
I always know that when the Nazi Party endorses a protest that it truely is mainstream!!!!
By your logic, I guess President Eisenhower’s championing of Autobahn-ish Interstates made him… a Nazi? what-ever.
Generation$crewed
October 19th, 2011
9:34 am
Jay
October 19th, 2011
9:30 am
Why does it matter if he is a jewish gay gay?
Are gay gay’s more gay, or is it like a double negative and it makes it a positive?
How does the jewishness affect the double gay?
Libertarian
October 19th, 2011
9:34 am
Funny how no one has a problem with wall street when the economy is booming.
Granny ver. 2.0
October 19th, 2011
9:34 am
I hear ya Granny! Here’s my reacp. Single parent in early 50’s. despite crippling legal fees from a litigation-loving ex-spouse, which produced 6 motions in 8 years and six figures in legal bills; on September 1, 2008 I had a $150,000.00 mortgage on a home the Bank (of America) valued at $275,000.00 – I paid $200K in 2002. The Roth IRA I have faithfully stoked with very conservative “blue chip” stocks since 1985 was worth nearly $150,000. As a self-employed professional, I earn over/under $100K per year. It is now October 2011. many of my clients have gone out of business, which has cut my income in half. The home I am now trying to sell, as I have re-married and will move later this month – has been valued by local real estate agents at: $100,000 – $125,000. I have never been late with a mortgage payment, and my credit score is just below 800. My Roth IRA has ’stablized’ at $50,000, but only because I sold my Bank of America position because the “too big to fail” bank, while paying millions in bonuses, and giving Warren Buffett as sweetheart deal of a guaranteed 6% dividend, while shareholders have been reward for loyalty with .01 dividend; at a loss of nearly $50,000.00. Like you, I will be OK. I am just worth about 1/2 waht I was worth three years ago. I played by the rules, minimized risk, held myself accountable/responsible; and some cowboy on Wall Street converted my income to HIS wealth. So, I too support the Occupy crowd. In fact, in anticipation of my move, I may take my always stocked “week’s supply of canned food and bottled water” along with some tents and sleeping bags, and donate it to the cause.
Jay
October 19th, 2011
9:34 am
Yes, jm. The ranking MINORITY member of the House Financial Services Committee was powerless.
An absolutely true statement. He had the power to do what exactly? Nothing.
Republicans were a majority on that committee; the committee was chaired by a Republican. They dictated what bills came to a vote, what language the bills contained, which bills passed the committee for a vote on the floor and which bills passed those floor votes. (Speaker Hastert had a rule that no bill that didn’t have majority support WITHIN the GOP caucus would even be allowed to come to a vote before the larger chamber.)
So tell me, jm, what powers did Frank have under that system. Please be explicit. You have suggested he had powers; what powers were they?
Adam
October 19th, 2011
9:35 am
Marie: and it is apparent by your statement “that education is a fundamental right and should be supplied by the state” that you have no moral compass
I guess the rest of the industrialized nations of the world ALSO have no moral compass. And that’s why they are trouncing us in education and health care.
Welcome to the occupation (Trotsky)
October 19th, 2011
9:35 am
Marie, Talking Head, Jim163:
You are all doing your college best (so to speak) here to defend a system in which you have invested apparently all of your guiding principles about justice and morality. “Personal responsibility” you call it.
But you obviously missed – or purposely ignored – the part of my post where I explain that it makes no sense to talk about these principles when you are in a system that is corrupt and rigged.
You cannot speak of “personal responsibility” when the means to exercise that responsibility are not reasonably and equitably made available for people to embrace.
Marie: “As I stated, if you cannot get a job the government allows you to defer or forbear the loan until you become employed.”
C’mon, Marie, you know it doesn’t allow you endless ongoing deferments. There are limits.
“However, the idea of not paying a loan you agreed to pay is IMMORAL”
No. What is IMMORAL is a system that does not provide people with the means to even exercise personal responsibility and achieve self-reliance.
Talking Head: “Your are asking for the very thing you are protesting, a bailout because of irresponsibility.”
You apparently understand nothing of what happened in recent history. The bailouts have NEVER benefited those who were most victimized, e.g. homeowners. Instead it rescued BANKS, some of the same institutions who boxed up and passed on these toxic assets. They were rescued and allowed to go on collecting bonuses, growing even MORE powerful in the process. Those holding the bag at the end of the line have never been helped, to this day. Likewise, student loan bailouts should forgive STUDENTS’ debts. Which would probably also be one of the best types of stimulus we could give to the economy to boot.
Adam
October 19th, 2011
9:37 am
Peadawg: “Oh FFS, place the blame where it belongs.” – Agreed. Washington and Wall Street
Incorrect. Wall Street, Supreme Court, and Congress. Period. NOT the President. He did not destroy the economy. He wasn’t even THERE.
USinUK
October 19th, 2011
9:38 am
Libertarian – “Funny how no one has a problem with wall street when the economy is booming.”
because then the cracks are sufficiently papered over that you either don’t see what’s happening or you don’t know how bad it’s going to be
derivatives were meant to limit risk and PREVENT severe downsides to the economy
what they did in actuality was throw gas on the fire
yeah, you have a few Cassandras out there (such as my shero Brooksley Born), but they are usually ignored
Libertarian
October 19th, 2011
9:38 am
Talking Head: Asking the government to bail out the student loans and placing $1 trillion on the taxpayers is the same irresponsible behavior that took place in 2008.
Actually, its worse because the banks paid back their bail out money.
TaxPayer
October 19th, 2011
9:38 am
Did any of the GOP candidates tell the audience how they would strive for world peace if elected for a day as leader of the world. And why did Trump eliminate the swimsuit competition.
Joe The Plumber too.
October 19th, 2011
9:39 am
jay, if you choose to take this route not much I can do about it as it’s your party. I have shown twenty years of barney doing whatever he could to stave off changes to his vote getting favorite entitlement program. Bush Sr., Clinton, W. and obama have all had to deal with his hissy fits. You writing the Jewish gay guy line is beneath you, that was not the subject.
Ricky B / jm
October 19th, 2011
9:39 am
Jay 9:30 since you don’t think a person in the minority can influence legislation (silly), I’m going to try to hunt down a Roll Call or The Hill piece for you. We’ll see if their archives go back to 2003. You may be in luck if not.
Welcome to the occupation (Trotsky)
October 19th, 2011
9:40 am
Libertarian: “Funny how no one has a problem with wall street when the economy is booming.”
It IS booming. Right now. And I have a problem with it.
So, there goes your theory.
Scooter
October 19th, 2011
9:40 am
USinUK, the banks were making those loans because Fannie and Freddie would buy them, bundle them and sell them into the financial markets. The bundling allowed the risk to be missed by the rating agencies, but Wall Street saw the inherent risk and insured against losses with AIG’s crooked selling of Mortgage Default Swaps.
Look, I got a preferable mortgage from Sun Trust in 2003 for being middle income and buying in a low income area, now I’m stuck in that area. But, USinUk, I want you, or anyone else, to explain why a private bank would give a rat’s rear end about social engineering diverse communities. the obvious answer democrats want to ignore is; they could sell my mortgage out the back door to Fannie and/or Freddie to eliminate their risk at a preferable rate, which is set by the Federal Reserve. All in all, the GSE’s are legislatively required to promote HUDs mission statement and in doing so they created the bubble.
Now, government has been promoting college education, irregardless of the field of study for decades and we are watching another bubble be created. Of course this bubble is more directly related student subsidies and loans for college education and the land grant colleges.
When did people become so trusting of politicians “good intentions”. The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
I know that is a lot to take in and I hope you can digest it all before picking one nit and moving on to your next defense of government provisions.
Aquagirl
October 19th, 2011
9:41 am
I’d also like to know how he wrecked the commercial real estate market
I’m surprised Tom Graves and Chip Rodgers didn’t cite him in ’splainin their $2 million default. Clearly the f@g from Taxachusetts forced them to take out that loan.
Peadawg
October 19th, 2011
9:41 am
“NOT the President. He did not destroy the economy. He wasn’t even THERE.” – Didn’t Obama vote for the bank bailouts? He part of the problem just like other who supported the bank bailouts. He gets absolutely no pass from me.
Jay
October 19th, 2011
9:41 am
Well, Joe, it just strikes me as interesting that in selecting a person to serve as their scapegoat, the Republicans chose to target someone with demographics that have long served as scapegoats in other contexts.
And again, what powers did Frank have to accomplish all this?
USinUK
October 19th, 2011
9:42 am
“Bush Sr., Clinton, W. and obama have all had to deal with his hissy fits. You writing the Jewish gay guy line”
good grief … the guy who talks about hissy fits then takes Jay to task about the jewish gay guy line.
OY. the world truly is made for people who aren’t cursed with self-awareness.
AmVet - Neo-cons, they're just bad people who enjoy the suffering of others.
October 19th, 2011
9:43 am
To the homophobic plumber and jm, (in my best Ronnie voice) “There you go again!”
Publicly showing your hubris, intentional ignorance and willingness to lie about the facts.
In this case about laying absurdly disproportionate blame at the feet one, single, solitary congressman.
Have you gentlemen no shame?
Funny how no one has a problem with wall street when the economy is booming.
And that would be another inane, over-simplification of the facts.
The alarm over corporate crime and their dominance over our republic goes all the way back to Thomas Jefferson. And has been written about by many men of great intelligence and vision.
Quit sucking up to the socialist fat cats. After thirty years of empty promises , they are NOT going to trickle down on you.
We the people are too big to fail.
V.V.
October 19th, 2011
9:43 am
You wanna know what they’re asking for? Here’s the preliminary list of demands. Not all will end up on the final list, but these are the itemized, numbered grievances the Occupiers are voicing.
https://sites.google.com/site/the99percentdeclaration/
Adam
October 19th, 2011
9:43 am
GS: Did you READ the articles you posted?
“Lack of experienced workers is the most frequently cited reason”
You think people can get experience if they are never allowed to have a job in their field in the first place? You think experience necessarily means some generic amount of years in the field?
Experience means being able to do very specific things that the company itself has CREATED for itself, in most cases, that do not translate to other companies in many cases, OR it means having 5 years experience in something that is only 4 years old. The expectations of companies that are looking for “experience” is most often unrealistic, and not the only reason they reject applicants.
The truth is, they are skittish and doing fine with the workforce they have so why bother trying hard to fill positions at all? We can just PRETEND we have positions that outside applicants can fill.
As you can see, it’s a multi-faceted problem. But the bottom line is that it’s not hard to fill positions, it’s just hard to continue to remain in business if you aren’t PRETENDING that you are having a hard time filling positions.
Talking Head
October 19th, 2011
9:44 am
Adam,
So your idea of taking out a loan is only valid if everything is hunky dory when it’s time to pay it back? Do you not believe in risk? What is your definition of a loan?
Cry me a river, suck it up. I took out loans, busted my butt through school, and landed a great job. It sucks paying them back, but when I signed my promisery note I agreed to pay back what I took out.
TaxPayer
October 19th, 2011
9:44 am
“However, the idea of not paying a loan you agreed to pay is IMMORAL”
Would you mind having a talk with that Tom Graves fella and his partner.
JKL2
October 19th, 2011
9:45 am
-“I am 24 years old,” one person wrote. “I go to school and work full-time and get an average of four hours of sleep a night. I am hoping the degree I earn will help me pay off my $80,000 student loan
Evidently not working hard enough as they have time to stop by and protest. A little counseling probably would have gone a long way for this individual. I worked a full and part time job thru college and came out with no debt. Hope he’s going to be a doctor working at it that long…
Adam
October 19th, 2011
9:45 am
GS: You may have to re-locate, you may have to make some tough sacrafices, may even have to start over and get trained in an entirely new field.
How will you pay for the move? How will you get trained in a new field if no one will train you, or if no one will give you another student loan because you already have too much in student debt?
Joe The Plumber too.
October 19th, 2011
9:46 am
sorry usinuk, is hissy fit some sort of code word. If so everyone I know including me must be gay because I have witnessed all of them throwing hissy fits at one time or another. Again, sorry if I misused a code word, my bad.
AmVet - Neo-cons, they're just bad people who enjoy the suffering of others.
October 19th, 2011
9:47 am
“I have shown twenty years of barney doing…”
A bald-faced lie.
Plumber has never shown anything here but his own ___ and opinions.
Has he ever once provided the first scintilla of data to corroborate his assertions?
No.
Confirmable (is that a real word?) figures, facts and evidence?
Nope.
Even a twisted link to some dubious website?
Not the first one.
Just fact-free, homophobic diatribes…
USinUK
October 19th, 2011
9:47 am
Scooter – you seem to think that Fannie/Freddie were the only ones doing that – they weren’t. investment banks were buying mortgages at the speed of light, as well … until they weren’t … and the banks were stuck with them on their books.
as far as a college “bubble” – you’re kidding, right?
please explain how this graph reflects a bubble: http://media.campustimes.org/2011/04/Untitled-300×180.png
Adam
October 19th, 2011
9:47 am
Libertarian: Funny how no one has a problem with wall street when the economy is booming.
Yeah, funny how when the economy is booming Wall Street doesn’t feel the need to screw people to retain their money.
Joe The Plumber too.
October 19th, 2011
9:47 am
look amvet is throwing a hissy fit now.
Zedd
October 19th, 2011
9:48 am
Blind political ideology doesn’t solve anything and merely adds to the problems at hand. Free your mind, Don’t tow the line!
Peadawg
October 19th, 2011
9:48 am
http://money.cnn.com/2011/10/19/news/economy/Social_security_cola_increase/index.htm?hpt=hp_t1
And how are we paying fr this exactly?
joe
October 19th, 2011
9:49 am
Who told the college kid who took out $80k in student loans to do it? He/she could have opted for a less expensive school and worked a part time job (like I did) to help pay for it. When you cut through the emotions, it’s all about choices. If you decide to study liberal arts, what kind of job do you think you are going to get? Try engineering, nursing, computer science, something that the world needs. You can do your painting as a hobby or as a side job, but don’t bank on living on easy street cause that don’t happen. I feel bad for those who are hurting, but is it our government’s responsibility to “bail them out?” I say no, just like they shouldn’t have bailed out the banks and GM. Also, make GE and the 50% of American’s who don’t contribute, pay their damn taxes!!
Marie
October 19th, 2011
9:49 am
@Trotsky –there have always been and will always be immorality in “the system” as you call it. Regardless, I have an obligation to behave morally and ethically. The system was broken when I went to college and when I purchased my home. And there will still be corruption when these protests end; even if they were to somehow get their way. Some of these great European socialist nations that you seem to favor have some of the most generous welfare/state benefits that one could imagine. Yet there is dissent spreading over there as well because according to these protestors “the system ain’t fair”. Face it, you want the state to guarantee you a fair outcome regardless of the personal decisions you make or whatever just happens in your life. And anyone that is promising you that type of Utopia is nothing but a con man who realizes that he has a willing stool pigeon to prey upon. And you can have that brother/sister, I would rather put my faith in Christ and Christ alone.
USinUK
October 19th, 2011
9:50 am
Joe – really? you’d describe a defensive lineman as throwing a hissy fit???
you’d describe a logger in the PNW as throwing a hissy fit??
please. that phrase is reserved and “code” for those who are deemed effeminate and “light in the loafers”
professional skeptic
October 19th, 2011
9:50 am
Why don’t they go protest in Washington?
(1) The majority of protesters who don’t live in Washington cannot just pick up and leave their jobs/school/family behind. Either that, or they don’t want to spend money on a plane ticket to get there. Money’s tight, remember?
(It was comparatively easy for the Tea Partyists to get back and forth to DC, what with all the luxury buses paid for by the Koch brothers out of their corporate treasury and laundered through Americans for Prosperity. That kind of thing tends to happen when your movement gets co-opted by Big Money.)
(2) Why should the protesters limit themselves to just D.C., when corporate control of our politics is evident at ALL levels, from President of the US down to local dog catcher? Make no mistake: Big Money has infected all levels of our government, from the top all the way down.
Want an example? Read this 10-page eye opener about Art Pope’s Big Money shenanigans in North Carolina, and THEN tell me with a straight face that the Occupy Raleigh protesters should be in Washington instead:
http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2011/10/10/111010fa_fact_mayer
Libertarian
October 19th, 2011
9:50 am
“Quit sucking up to the socialist fat cats. After thirty years of empty promises , they are NOT going to trickle down on you.”
I don’t need them to trickle down on me. Thanks.
TaxPayer
October 19th, 2011
9:50 am
Wow. The Republicans on here are determined to stick by their unsubstantiated claims that Barney was the ruler over the Republican-led house and dictated all legislation that ultimately led to the collapse of the housing industry and they’re all upset that everyone else does not accept their version of history as though it were carved in stone by Moses and delivered unto them personally. You guys should write a book or two. After all, I’m sure that version of history has yet to make it to the shelves. It could be a best seller.
Aquagirl
October 19th, 2011
9:51 am
I have shown twenty years of barney doing whatever he could to stave off changes to his vote getting favorite entitlement program.
Yeah it’s right there….oh, wait it’s not.
It’s time for a nap when you reference your imaginary post.
godless heathen
October 19th, 2011
9:52 am
“THEY WANT JOBS, BUT AREN’T FINDING ANY BECAUSE OF THE CRASHED ECONOMY.”
Yup. When employers do hire someone they are going to go down to the OWS tent city and make a few offers. LOL!
If these people wanted jobs, they would be out looking for jobs.
Joe The Plumber too.
October 19th, 2011
9:52 am
amvet, listen close, that was the sound of this big black man blowing you a kiss, h3ll I would give a big hug to boot if you were here. Homophobic, not in the least, try again, and if you are not able to type in Boston Globe then my apologies, must be an old war injury. Be nice children, got to head for a meeting and try to make a few more dollars to hide away from those evil politicians and wall street types.
Aquagirl
October 19th, 2011
9:55 am
got to head for a meeting and try to make a few more dollars
Yep. Nappy time. Sweet dreams.
Stevie Ray
October 19th, 2011
9:56 am
“Advocates of capitalism are very apt to appeal to the sacred principles of liberty, which are embodied in one maxim: The fortunate must not be restrained in the exercise of tyranny over the unfortunate”.
I like the protesters but all protest end up going too far, usually because the chaff makes more noise that the wheat. The chaff here is the students who can’t find jobs, owe money they borrowed with knowledge, and expect something out of this…No sympathy, especially from many of us who graduated college during the recession, gas shortage, 17% interest rates Carter and early Reagan years.. I say get off your asses and focus on making ends meet without hoping for an unprecedented handout that we can ill afford. The experience will pay huge dividends for them in the future.
Those screwed by arguably illegal, fraudulent, or government influence of lobbyists over voters are a different story in my book. Many things could have been done or undone since 1998 from a DC perspective (especially our 8% favorable Congress) to ease the burden on those burned by such lack of morality.
ty webb
October 19th, 2011
9:57 am
Shocker! an Obama voter is “legitimizing” a group of more extreme obama voters…guess Jay gave away his broad brush.
getalife
October 19th, 2011
9:58 am
cons think this movement will fizzle out liker the tee baggers.
Nope.
It is here to stay so get over it cons.
Nobody ever called our President “not a serious candidate” like cain.
getalife
October 19th, 2011
9:59 am
cons think this movement will fizzle out like the tea party.
Nope.
It is here to stay so get over it cons.
Nobody ever called our President “not a serious candidate” like cain.
Joe Mama
October 19th, 2011
9:59 am
Scooter — “the obvious answer democrats want to ignore is; they could sell my mortgage out the back door to Fannie and/or Freddie to eliminate their risk at a preferable rate, which is set by the Federal Reserve. All in all, the GSE’s are legislatively required to promote HUDs mission statement and in doing so they created the bubble.”
And the obvious response that Republicans want to ignore is this: the SAME systemic problems affected MULTIPLE European countries, whose housing AND commercial real estate markets crashed at the same time ours did, despite the fact that FNMA and FHLMC didn’t do business overseas and were legally prohibited from touching commercial real estate.
Shrug. You can harp about FNMA and FHLMC all you want, but they weren’t the cause of the problem. Sure, they contributed to it, but since commercial real estate crashed as well and other nation’s RE markets crashed at the same time, it’s clearly not the fault of a uniquely American pair of insitutions that that happened.
Stevie Ray
October 19th, 2011
9:59 am
Holding Wall Street accountable is like blaming a snake from biting you that could otherwise have been cleansed of venom. The Feds are primarily responsible for the more catastrophic reasons behind the economic problems. Wall Street does have it’s fair share of crooks and advantage takers but no more than any other industry.
mike "hussein" smith
October 19th, 2011
10:00 am
I guess if my middle name was orvis I’d be miserable, too.
TaxPayer
October 19th, 2011
10:00 am
Reality teevee star or CEO or football player or similar occupations are the only ones worth pursuing. Engineering and other such professions are not worth the bother in today’s world. Why would a person, for example, wish to become a climate scientist only to be ridiculed by a pack of howling Republican tools, that fall in line behind the likes of a Limbaugh or a Hannity or a Koch crook and bleat their messages, for trying to do his job.
getalife
October 19th, 2011
10:02 am
pea,
Leave my raise alone.
Welcome to the occupation (Trotsky)
October 19th, 2011
10:03 am
Marie: “there have always been and will always be immorality in “the system” as you call it.”
No. This is wrong. There is a SPECIFIC immorality that we are talking about right now. A system that is corrupt in a specific way, not in some nebulous generalized way. Europe is suffering from the same crisis, though at a difference “phase length” you might say. Germany always had vastly superior services to us, but it also has a vastly superior socialized version of capitalism with union representatives on all corporate boards, plus it maintained its manufacturing base, unlike us. Therefore it is doing vastly better than us now. But, again, they are playing the same game under the global capitalist order.
“And you can have that brother/sister, I would rather put my faith in Christ and Christ alone.”
And there is no question in my mind what Jesus Christ would say if he were here today:
He would say, what have you done for the LEAST of my brethren? And then he would remind us that he comes not bringing peace, but a SWORD. Which I would take to mean: join the movement. Support the resistance.
Stevie Ray
October 19th, 2011
10:05 am
I often wonder why the calamity of my time, the S&L debacle was very profitably discharged via a program whereby our tax dollars temporarily assumed troubled mortgage assets. These homes were strategically sold a proportion each several years which kept the sales prices from plunging to a degree such as today. Why do we not employ an RTC resolution? Could it be the same reason banks go bailed out, and would prefer to hold the loans since the new bankruptcy laws favor them 100% over filers? They can now chase you until your dying days….Our corrupt government protecting special interests over taxpayers once again…
Polical fault is irrelevant just like most of the posts on this forum suggesting same…
Curtis Rivers
October 19th, 2011
10:07 am
I believe a major question being asked is, “Why can’t we build a just society?” Conservatives answer repeatedly, “Life isn’t fair, get over it and suck it up and get a job.” The sad thing is they miss the heart of the issue, which is a moral issue. So long as we condone society in terms of Ayn Rand’s Objectivist theories of capitalism, the only morality is that some people have the ability to rise, others don’t matter, and government needs to be limited to necessary functions which allow capitalists to build their empires without oversight or regulation. The right has presently chosen to believe in that skewed philosophy. I believe that it is possible to build a just society, as do those who are protesting. My belief has hope for justice and fairness. Isn’t that hopeful vision better than the stark skepticism of “Just pull yourself up, or get out of the way?”
Jim163
October 19th, 2011
10:08 am
Marie, unfortunately Trotsky probably owes that person who taught her about Utopia somewhere around $80K.
TaxPayer
October 19th, 2011
10:10 am
I have shown twenty years of barney doing whatever he could to stave off changes to his vote getting favorite entitlement program.
Republicans really do make declarations of “fact” without actually proving said “fact” and then reference their declarations as proof of said “fact”!!!! Wow! Just, dayham!!!
AmVet - Neo-cons, they're just bad people who enjoy the suffering of others.
October 19th, 2011
10:11 am
Libertarian,
You must be one of those in that poll I read about yesterday; the 20% who think they are in the top 1%.
LOL…
It does not matter.
Stevie ray, i would contend a better way of putting it is:
“The Feds are primarily responsible for the more catastrophic reasons behind letting the banksters and casino capitalists unleash the economic problems.”
“Wall Street does have it’s fair share of crooks and advantage takers but no more than any other industry.”
Probably so.
It is just that with their unique positions of hyper-concentrated wealth and power in relatively very few hands, they are able to wreck MUCH more widespread damage.
And have done so.
Libertarian
October 19th, 2011
10:12 am
The student loan system is ridiculous. I think my dog could get a student loan if she applied. They kept giving loans to my brother-in-law who went to a REALLY crappy college and, after 5 years, still doesn’t have the equivalent of a 2 year degree. Do I think my brother-in-law should have his loans forgiven? No! It was his dumb choice to take out the loans and do nothing but drink and party in college. But I also think they should not keep giving these kids loans when they have made no progress towards an actual degree. There’s no accountability in the system.
getalife
October 19th, 2011
10:13 am
“Palin Compares GOP Candidates To ‘Bickering’ Children”
Agreed.
Liker their cons here.
Adam
October 19th, 2011
10:13 am
Peadawg: Didn’t Obama vote for the bank bailouts? He part of the problem just like other who supported the bank bailouts. He gets absolutely no pass from me.
The bank bailouts themselves were not the problem. The problem was what the banks did with the bailout money and since then. The problem is that Congress did not regulate Wall Street enough, and that the Supreme Court has decided that money is free speech in elections. Obama can be held accountable for his one vote on something that didn’t go far enough in that regard, but he cannot be held accountable for the decisions of entire other bodies and the rampant obstructionism of the Republican Party as soon as he became President. Also, you seem to forget or not care that many Republicans also voted for the bailouts and it was widely regarded by Bush and the Republican members of Congress as a good thing.
And if Obama doesn’t get a free pass from you, why aren’t YOU down there protesting in front of the White House?
JKL2
October 19th, 2011
10:13 am
professional skeptic- That kind of thing tends to happen when your movement gets co-opted by Big Money.)
George Soros says,”What?” Moveon.org, nothing to see here.
Maybe that poor college student should contact his local SEIU rep to get one of those paid protesting jobs.
Adam
October 19th, 2011
10:13 am
Talking Head: So your idea of taking out a loan is only valid if everything is hunky dory when it’s time to pay it back?
You don’t speak for me, sport.
If you can’t wipe student loans in bankruptcy due to laws that prevent that, then you shouldn’t be forced to pay it back when you have no money or no way to afford paying it back without damaging basic necessities such as food, shelter, etc. And if you really think that people should be punished for their achievements and inability to get a job despite those achievements, then I feel sorry for your worldview.
Good that you landed a great job. The fact that you think people should be paying just as much as you when they haven’t landed a job speaks volumes.
Ricky B / jm
October 19th, 2011
10:13 am
Jay
You’re in luck. Roll call and hill don’t go back that far as far as I can tell and search.
Go read some Robert Caro books. The power to influence is a power like any other. Even now, after democrats got stomped, Frank heads the HFSC. How many Republican votes does he need to stop republican legislation? 4 out of 34 members. That’s easy.
Everyone knows and admits frank was against the legislative and oversight changes. He led the charge against them against Bush. He picked off enough republicans to stop it. Bush lost, Frank won, the taxpayers lost $trillion as a result.
No big deal, right?
kayaker 71
October 19th, 2011
10:14 am
Bookman,
You want some Bwarney Fwank confirmation as to malfeasance? Go to American Thinker, July 28, 2011. The article is entitled, “Who is Barney Frank?” written by Vasko Kohlmayer. I think that this article will provide you with most of the things need to prove Bwarney was complicit in most of the housing collapse, his defense of Fannie and Freddie and his elicit live in companions. This is not about his sexual preference….. he can sc*ew his pet goat for all I care…. this is about a crooked, sly politician who played the system and helped to caused this whole mess.. Your denial is amazing.
Adam
October 19th, 2011
10:15 am
Peadawg: http://money.cnn.com/2011/10/19/news/economy/Social_security_cola_increase/index.htm?hpt=hp_t1
And how are we paying fr this exactly?
That’s your argument?
Well, I suppose it would be a reasonable one to make if we were talking reasonable.
I have a question for the people who claim Obama was preventing the Social Security “raises.” Does Obama now get credit for giving you a raise?
USMC
October 19th, 2011
10:15 am
JAY @8:53
Well for starters:
Democrats were WARNED of Financial crisis and did NOTHING
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPSDnGMzIdo
Ricky B / jm
October 19th, 2011
10:15 am
“heads the minority side of the HFSC as the ranking member”
Libertarian
October 19th, 2011
10:15 am
You must be one of those in that poll I read about yesterday; the 20% who think they are in the top 1%.
Actually Amvet, I have a brain. I know exactly where I stand in society. I’m doing good and I don’t blame my problems on others.
Stevie Ray
October 19th, 2011
10:16 am
Jesus Christ! Hope is not a solution….Could it be relying on a 235 year old document for sentimental reasons may also be an issue here? I suppose our founding fathers clearly anticipated the size and scope of government, laws not enforced (immigration comes to mind), taxation without representation except for special interests, politicians will say absolutely anything to get elected and deliver on only on a small fraction of same and our involvement at the expense of taxpaye dollars to finance war in distant lands who pose absolutely no direct threat to our shores??
Adam
October 19th, 2011
10:16 am
godless: If these people wanted jobs, they would be out looking for jobs.
Many of them have been for months, with little to no response from “job creators” except to say “sorry, position filled.”
Peadawg
October 19th, 2011
10:17 am
“And if Obama doesn’t get a free pass from you, why aren’t YOU down there protesting in front of the White House?” – I have a job, wife, 2 dogs…you know…responsibilities.
You keep giving Obama a pass, and I’ll keep holding EVERYONE that has been involved responsible. Again, keyword there is EVERYONE.
Adam
October 19th, 2011
10:18 am
Stevie Ray: I say get off your asses and focus on making ends meet without hoping for an unprecedented handout that we can ill afford.
Translation: Sit down and shut up, bend over and TAKE IT, hippies!
TaxPayer
October 19th, 2011
10:18 am
If Tom Graves can use the “stupid defense’ to skirt a 2.2 million dollar loan, then everybody should be free to do the same. At least students taking out those loans have not had the benefit of supposedly being educated as Tom supposedly was when he signed on the dotted line. Republicans are such hypocrites.
USMC
October 19th, 2011
10:19 am
The lack of intelligence in the Democrat Party is astounding. No wonder the Democrats will get hammered in 2012; losing seats in Congress and the Executive branch. LOL!
Don’t Regulate Fannie Mae or Freddy Mac
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTbIb75JdwY&feature=related
Joe Mama
October 19th, 2011
10:19 am
K71 — “You want some Bwarney Fwank confirmation”
Serious people who have serious arguments to make, and who want to be taken seriously — don’t use cutesy names to talk about people they don’t like.
I don’t care for President Bush or his policies, but I’ve only ever called him “the President,” “President Bush,” “Bush” or — on rare occasions when I am speaking of both him and his father, “Bush the Younger.” I don’t call him “Dubya,” “Shrub,” “Captain Cokespoon,” “The Pretzeldent” or any of those other silly names that still make the rounds on the Internet.
If you have a serious argument to make about Frank, then man up and make it in a serious manner. If, OTOH, you want to use cutesy names, then don’t expect others to treat your argument with any respect or seriousness.
Adam
October 19th, 2011
10:19 am
WTTO: Jesus would also be very angry at bankers, like he was in the old days when he threw the table over.
Welcome to the occupation (Trotsky)
October 19th, 2011
10:20 am
Stevie Ray: “Holding Wall Street accountable is like blaming a snake from biting you that could otherwise have been cleansed of venom. The Feds are primarily responsible for the more catastrophic reasons behind the economic problems.”
Interesting choice of metaphors. So if Wall St. is a “snake”, then why not chop off the head of the snake?
“Wall Street does have it’s fair share of crooks and advantage takers but no more than any other industry”
This is dead wrong. That’s like saying the mafia has its share of crooks but it’s just like any other line of work. On some trivial level, that may be true. But the fact is that the whole practice of what they’re doing breeds corruption.
Wall Street IS corrupt at its very core.
TaxPayer
October 19th, 2011
10:20 am
“heads the minority side of the HFSC as the ranking member”
Yup. That’s all he’s got.
Peadawg
October 19th, 2011
10:20 am
“That’s your argument?” – Yeah, that’s my argument. Approaching $15 Trillion in debt and now we raise the social security check w/ out cuts elsewhere/tax increases. Just continuing the same mindless spending that been going on for way too damn long. That’s genius! Genius I tell you!!! (sarcasm if you couldn’t tell)
Ricky B / jm
October 19th, 2011
10:20 am
Jay is so wrong on this it undermines any credibility he has.
Frank himself concedes he bears significant responsibility.
Blind allegiance to a party, and Jay appears to have, warps one’s thinking. The only time Jay criticizes his own party is when it isn’t liberal enough…..
JKL2
October 19th, 2011
10:20 am
getalife- cons think this movement will fizzle out like the Tea Party.
Nope.
The Tea Party is here to stay, so get over it libs.
Nobody ever called our President “not a serious candidate” like cain. He’s not a serious president, so why would anyone consider him a serious candidate?
What happens if the stupid people vote? The Democrat wins…