A sane person’s guide to ‘Fast and Furious’

One Republican congressman has suggested that Attorney General Eric Holder ought to be arrested and face criminal charges of being an accessory to murder, and that Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, Secretary of Homeland Security Janet Napolitano and even President Obama might be implicated.

Wayne LaPierre of the National Rifle Association calls it “the biggest cover-up since Watergate” and describes Operation Fast and Furious as “just one part of Barack Obama’s agenda to attack gun owners and our Second Amendment rights.” Conservative bloggers are even arguing that the “Fast and Furious” case constitutes grounds for impeachment, with claims that it’s “the Reichstag fire of the Second Amendment.”

An excitable little bunch, aren’t they?

For those not deeply entrenched in far-right conspiracy theories, let’s begin with the basics. “Fast and Furious” was an undercover operation launched out of Phoenix in 2009 by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms. The investigation attempted to trace 1,500 to 2,000 firearms as they were purchased here in the United States by agents of Mexican drug cartels and then smuggled across the border. The ATF’s aim was to use that information to prosecute, disarm and break the cartels.

But things went very, very wrong.

ATF agents lost track of the guns. Two AK-47s involved in the investigation were recovered later at the scene of a murder of a U.S. Border Patrol agent. Other weapons lost in the operation have clearly made their way into the hands of the cartels and have been used in violent crimes in Mexico.

In the aftermath of the botched operation, the U.S. attorney in Arizona and the acting ATF head have both been removed. The inspector general of the Justice Department has launched an internal investigation and U.S. Rep. Darrell Issa, chairman of the House Oversight Committee, has held hearings and subpoenaed thousands of emails and other documents from the ATF, the Justice Department and even the White House.

Through his probe, Issa is clearly hoping to establish that top Obama administration officials were deeply involved in the scandal, a suggestion that so far he has been unable to document. Instead of being an invention of the Obama administration, for example, it turns out Operation Fast and Furious was an offshot of similar operations carried out by the ATF as far back as 2006, under the Bush administration.

Inevitably, “what did he know and when did he know it” also becomes an issue in such investigations. In May, the attorney general testified to Issa’s committee that he first became aware of the program and its difficulties this spring. Issa has since released documents indicating that information about Fast and Furious had been sent to Holder back in 2010. That has led to claims that Holder committed perjury and is conducting a coverup.

It turns out, however, that Issa himself was also briefed on “Fast and Furious” back in 2010. His spokesman, Frederick Hill, admits the session occurred but says that “the briefing was broad… my understanding is that Fast and Furious never came up by name in this briefing, and certainly they had no discussion about the controversial tactics.”

And that’s pretty much the explanation that Holder’s spokesman gives as well, citing the volume of material that crosses an attorney general’s desk:

“None of the handful of entries in 2010 regarding the Fast and Furious suggested there was anything amiss with that investigation requiring leadership to take corrective action or commit to memory this particular operation prior to the disturbing claims raised by ATF agents in the early part of 2011.”

Again, there’s no question that Fast and Furious represents a serious failure of federal law enforcement, and it shouldn’t surprise anyone if those responsible for that failure were less than eager to inform superiors in Washington about their mistakes. However, the inspector general’s investigation and the investigation by Issa’s committee should help lay out exactly what happened.

However, there’s something deeper going on here as well, and it’s reflected in the comments from LaPierre and others.

The flow of firearms across the U.S. border is a serious challenge. So far, some 65,000 guns confiscated in Mexico by authorities have been traced back to gun purchases made here in the United States. One single individual tracked during the Fast and Furious investigation bought more than 700 weapons for transfer to the Mexican cartels, in some cases purchasing 20 or more AK-47-type assault weapons in a single purchase.

However, when the Obama administration proposed a new regulation that would require border-state gun shops to notify officials if a single individual attempted to buy large numbers of guns, the NRA protested bitterly.

“This is just a shallow excuse to engage in a sweeping firearms registration scheme,” LaPierre wrote on the NRA’s website. At the NRA’s insistence, the House passed a resolution opposing that regulation, and the NRA has since filed suit against the rule.

The truth is, the right has fixated on “Fast and Furious” not because it wants the federal government to become more effective in its efforts to stop gunrunning across the Mexican border. Quite the contrary. It wants to raise such a stink about “Fast and Furious” that the government is forced to stop undercover gun-trafficking investigations altogether. They see this as an opportunity to discredit and handcuff ATF, an agency that the NRA and others view as a hated enemy.

(LaPierre, you may recall, infamously referred to ATF agents as “jack-booted government thugs,” as in “lifting the assault weapons ban (is necessary) to even the odds in the struggle between ordinary citizens and jack-booted government thugs.”)

The undercover aspect of the operation is particularly galling to the NRA because it recalls sting operations conducted by New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg and others. In those operations, private detectives went to gun shops and gun shows and were sold guns even though they told the gun sellers that they weren’t legally eligible to buy weapons. The fact that federal officials are using similar tactics outrages the NRA.

The working theory on the right — the thought process by which this botched law-enforcement operation turns into “the Reichstag fire of the Second Amendment” — is that Fast and Furious was concocted in the upper reaches of the Obama administration as a means to justify harsh gun-confiscation laws and the reimposition of the assault-weapons ban.

That’s why it has become such a cause celebre; that’s why it is supposedly “bigger than Watergate” with the potential to end in Obama’s impeachment. There’s no evidence whatsoever to support that notion, just the overheated minds of people who let hate-driven imaginations overwhelm rational thought.

– Jay Bookman

678 comments Add your comment

Bill Hilly

October 13th, 2011
3:17 pm

Just another reason for the Republicans to not have that “laser focus” on jobs!

Cherokee

October 13th, 2011
3:17 pm

“people who let hate-driven imaginations overwhelm rational thought.”

AKA Republicans?

Doggone/GA

October 13th, 2011
3:22 pm

Jay – looks like an upload glitch got you again. Seems to be some stuff missing

getalife

October 13th, 2011
3:22 pm

Ak’s cheap!

Get em while they are hot.

Brosephus™

October 13th, 2011
3:23 pm

Jay

I think you just helped 99% of your conservative detractors ejaculate with this post. Maybe they will get all that buildup out of their systems. I seriously doubt it, but I hope they do.

Armed Liberal

October 13th, 2011
3:25 pm

Who the frick edited this?

My god it’s like reading dyslexic ramblings of a dope fiend.

Armed Liberal

October 13th, 2011
3:27 pm

I take it back. I’m a computer dork.

Joe Mama

October 13th, 2011
3:28 pm

Brownsephus — “I think you just helped 99% of your conservative detractors ejaculate with this post.”

They’re gonna show us their OH faces.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Office_Space

Normal

October 13th, 2011
3:29 pm

Getalife,
Can I get a taco with that?

Armed Liberal

October 13th, 2011
3:30 pm

How long till we hear “What did Holder know and when did he know it?”

getalife

October 13th, 2011
3:32 pm

“This is just a shallow excuse to engage in a sweeping firearms registration scheme,” Wayne LaPierre, the NRA’s chief executive and executive vice president, wrote on the organization’s website. (regulation for notice of multiple gun sales in border-area gun shops)”

I guess the NRA want this investigation to end. Issa is upsetting the NRA. Attacking another gop voting group. Way to go gop.

getalife

October 13th, 2011
3:34 pm

Normal,

Buy 100 AK 47’s and get all you can eat tacos.

Recon (2nd.and 3rd.)

October 13th, 2011
3:34 pm

Let the investigation go where it leads. It would appear that Holder did indeed possibly purger himself before congress when he testified, I believe last May that he only learned of Fast and Furious a few week prior to his appearance. Does this failed operation that cost lives reach up higher into the administration? No one knows, but this is certainly worthy of intense investigation as I think will occur.

Jay

October 13th, 2011
3:34 pm

Is there still a problem? I’ve had a couple of recent occasions in which early drafts of the column have somehow posted. I think this one is now fixed, but maybe not … I am, after all, my own editor in these things.

Armed Liberal

October 13th, 2011
3:36 pm

“There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves Orcs.”

-John Rogers

Berne Johnson

October 13th, 2011
3:37 pm

Wow, there is so much more to this than what Mr. Bookman wrote. First, there never was a tracking mechanism established for following the guns. The whisleblowing ATF agents were infuriated and fought that tooth and nail. They were then instructed to let the guns go – without following them.Without a tracking mechanism, the only logical statistic will be when the guns show up at crime scenes – which has no logical connection to doing anything to the Cartels. Third, after the first sale to a straw buyer – they had all the evidence they needed against them – no need to repeat the process thousands of times. Fourth, in congressional testimony – the political appointee at the ATF who got weekly reports was “gleeful” whenever one of the guns showed up at a crime scene. Since there was no mechanism for tracking the guns and the only statistic they tracked was when the guns showed up at crime scenes, it seems pretty obvious that Fast and Furious was about some political purpose. Please, Mr. Bookman, what political purpose could that be?

Jay

October 13th, 2011
3:39 pm

You tell me, Berne. It’s your conspiracy theory, not mine.

ty webb

October 13th, 2011
3:41 pm

Good grief…water carrying this hard and it’s only Oct. 13, 2011…You better hit the gym, Jay, November 2012 will be hear before you know it.

Steve - USA

October 13th, 2011
3:42 pm

Really……we are going to go down the ejaculate road, The glee at writing pu**y yesterday wasn’t enough?

Brosephus™

October 13th, 2011
3:43 pm

Joe Mama

:lol: :lol:

Jay

Seems like the dysfunction went away..

Jay

October 13th, 2011
3:43 pm

Tell me where I’m wrong, Ty.

Gordon

October 13th, 2011
3:45 pm

I thought the issue was that Holder said under oath he didn’t know anything about F&F, but then several memos from well before that date were found that showed he clearly did. As is often the case, it wasn’t what was done but lying about what was done.

We already know that a president lied under oath and it was no big deal, so why should an attorney general lying under oath be a problem, right?

Recon (2nd.and 3rd.)

October 13th, 2011
3:46 pm

“it seems pretty obvious that Fast and Furious was about some political purpose. Please, Mr. Bookman, what political purpose could that be?”

I won’t go that far but best possible case it is certainly about incompetence and attempted cover up.

getalife

October 13th, 2011
3:47 pm

It is missing the mug shot of that guy and the other links of gun shops selling multiple guns to one guy.

“The ATF’s aim was to use that information to prosecute, disarm and break the cartels.”

Didn’t they find a bunch of those guns at a cartel hit man’s house?

Armed Liberal

October 13th, 2011
3:47 pm

LaPIERRE: [I]n public, [President Obama will] remind us that he’s put off calls from his party to renew the old Clinton [assault weapons] gun ban, he hasn’t pushed for new gun control laws, and he’ll even say he looked the other way when Congress passed a couple of minor pro-gun bills by huge majorities. The president will offer the Second Amendment lip service and hit the campaign trail saying he’s actually been good for the Second Amendment.

But it’s a big fat stinking lie, just like all the other lies that have come out of this corrupt administration. It’s all part — it’s all part of a massive Obama conspiracy to deceive voters and hide his true intentions to destroy the Second Amendment in our country. [...]

Before the President was even sworn into office, they met and they hatched a conspiracy of public deception to try to guarantee his re-election in 2012. [...]

And Obama himself is no fool. So when he got elected, they concocted a scheme to stay away from the gun issue, lull gun owners to sleep, and play us for fools in 2012. Well, gun owners are not fools, and we are not fooled. We see the president’s strategy crystal clear: get re-elected, and with no other re-elections to worry about, get busy dismantling and destroying our firearms freedom. Erase the Second Amendment from the Bill of Rights and exorcise it from the U.S. Constitution. That’s their agenda.

AmVet - Read my lips. No new Texans!

October 13th, 2011
3:48 pm

Normal, was terribly sorry to hear of your loss.

My thoughts have been with you today.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YMLmlHfehQ

Jay

October 13th, 2011
3:49 pm

Gordon, Holder’s version is that yes, he was apparently sent documents with the name Fast and Furious included back in 2010, but that ATF, FBI and Justice run a bunch of operations all over the country and if he saw the name back then it meant nothing to him, just another in a long string of ongoing investigations.

His version is that it was only this spring that he heard a program called Fast and Furious had gone awry. If there’s evidence to contradict that version, I expect we’ll see it.

josef

October 13th, 2011
3:49 pm

This whole mess lays squarely in the laps of the manufacturers. Subpoena their records of the annual conferences of production. Follow the money.

Cecil

October 13th, 2011
3:51 pm

Berne did not have a theory, Jay, he just stated facts. You had a few facts, skipped a whole lot of details, and made your own assessment – aka theory.

1811/0311

October 13th, 2011
3:51 pm

Jay:

I will say there are a lot of complicated issues here that cross party lines and involve previous administrations.

Sometimes you let drugs “walk”, sometimes you let “counterfeit money” walk, sometimes you let “stolen credit cards” walk and sometimes you let a lot of “buy money” walk in order to get a bigger fish or totally take down the operation.

However, when you let “guns” walk …………… it’s a whole different ballgame.

That leaves two important points:

1) This whole fiasco is a result of the United States not having the willpower to control its borders.

2) If Holder lied before Congress under oath about what he knew and when he knew it, he is guilty of perjury.

Let the chips fall where they may.

Brosephus™

October 13th, 2011
3:52 pm

Steve

You must not have witnessed the zeal at the thought of discussing Fast and Furious that some conservatives have shown here. When Jay’s colleague, Kyle, posted on F&F, it wasn’t enough for them. They kept asking Jay to post. Since Jay’s honored that request, I imagine they’re experiencing some kind of happy endingesque release.

:)

Recon (2nd.and 3rd.)

October 13th, 2011
3:52 pm

Making Wayne LaPierre the focus is a little silly.

josef

October 13th, 2011
3:52 pm

Armed Liberal

Second Amendment, suspension of habeas corpus…step by step…

Gordon

October 13th, 2011
3:52 pm

Jay,

OK. That is believable.

But this sort of reminds me of the witch hunts about outing a CIA agent when Bush was president.

Jay

October 13th, 2011
3:52 pm

If, for example, there’s a document ORIGINATING with Holder regarding F&F, that would constitute proof he was lying.

Personally, I certainly can’t claim that I read all of every email sent to me. Can you?

Normal

October 13th, 2011
3:53 pm

Thanks AmVet…

Recon (2nd.and 3rd.)

October 13th, 2011
3:53 pm

Normal, I too am sorry for your loss. I lost mine suddenly almost 16 years ago. I know the feeling.

Normal

October 13th, 2011
3:54 pm

Recon,
My thanks to you also…

Jay

October 13th, 2011
3:57 pm

Certainly Berne has a theory, Cecil:

“It seems pretty obvious that Fast and Furious was about some political purpose.”

That’s the theory.

Berne Johnson

October 13th, 2011
3:58 pm

Some idiot dreamed up this program. Since Fast and Furious is not logically about tracking guns and catching bad guys (since there was NO tracking mechanisim. I can only conclude that the idiot that dreamed it up was a political idiot – not a law enforcement idiot. Since I can only assume the nature of the political connection (which I am assuming is about “Under the Radar” efforts for gun control), I really want to see where the investigation takes this. I welcome someone pointing out where my logic is off. What other political purpose can be served – other than gun control efforts?

HDB

October 13th, 2011
3:59 pm

Normal…I just lost my mom the day before Valentine’s Day….so I know your feelings!! Remember the times you had with your mom…..and keep the joy she gave you always! There’ll be a hole in your life…..but not in your heart!! Good thoughts always for you……

Misty Fyed

October 13th, 2011
3:59 pm

Come on guys….our Federal Government provided weapons to mexican cartels that were used to commit murder. Holder says he didn’t pay attention to the memo. There’s oversight for you. I don’t care what party you belong to; that’s inept.

What next? Can the DEA actually sell cocaine now?

Jay

October 13th, 2011
3:59 pm

And Berne has now confirmed the theory theory. It is just as I described it above.

josef

October 13th, 2011
4:02 pm

Fast and Furious was hatched in DC under the auspices of the elected administration. That makes it political. Not out to interpret the politics of it myself, but, yes, it’s political.

Brosephus™

October 13th, 2011
4:02 pm

But this sort of reminds me of the witch hunts about outing a CIA agent when Bush was president.

Not to mention the Iran-Contra affair. I don’t think any major political heads have been found guilty of anything since Watergate. I don’t expect this investigation to change the status quo.

Jay

October 13th, 2011
4:02 pm

I have no doubt the DEA does sell cocaine, Mysty.

And again, if the charge is that the ATF blew this big time, I would wholeheartedly agree. If the charge is that this was some tri-dimensional-chess political conspiracy … I’m gonna want to see some evidence

Peadawg

October 13th, 2011
4:03 pm

To me, the problem is that Holder may have lied to Congress about when he knew about it or whatnot. Lying to Congress = perjury no matter who are. There should absolutely be an investigation into that and if it’s found that he did indeed lied, he needs to resign.

They have no problem investigating Bonds or Clemens for perjury…what makes Holder any different?

Normal

October 13th, 2011
4:04 pm

What next? Can the DEA actually sell cocaine now?

Why not? The CIA did…

——————————-

A funny.
Remember this one?

http://jwenet.net/notebook/1337/1023.html

Phil Lunney

October 13th, 2011
4:04 pm

I don’t doubt that Mr. Holder knew something earlier, but probably not the details. If we want to investigate, let’s go back to the start in 2006, these local folks had the approval of George W.’s folks as well. Can we also investigate the earmarked road funds that happen to go in front of Mr. Issa’s real estate? He seems to be getting very rich and his district gets some “good infrastructure”, very targeted.
P.S. It is kind of funny to see Wayne LaPierre in a tizzy about guns run amuck.

Peadawg

October 13th, 2011
4:04 pm

And put into jail for lying of course along w/ resigning.

Normal

October 13th, 2011
4:05 pm

HDB,
My thanks to you too. She was a good Mom.

Jay

October 13th, 2011
4:06 pm

Peadawg, I have no problem with an investigation, and if there’s proof he lied, he should resign.

So far, there isn’t.

Steve - USA

October 13th, 2011
4:07 pm

Can’t say that I read every email that comes to my personal email.

I can say that I read every single one that comes to my corporate email address.

Michael Slisher

October 13th, 2011
4:07 pm

Jay, either you have failed to follow up on all pertinent communications regarding F&F that are extant currently, have only listened to / read selected choices of information, or have chosen to only present those facts that support your point of view.
The facts as found throughout the months long investigation bear out that ATF knowingly allowed weapons to be sold to straw buyers, and in some cases insisted to gun-shops that they allow sales to proceed that the gun-shops objected to. Guns were let “walk” with no means to trace whatsoever.
Although it is, in your view, a right-wing oriented website, try following the links given in the website sipseystreetirregulars.blogspot.com/ . Disregarding the “editorial comment” of the blog itself, I believe you will find yourself incredulous when you see what our government has allowed to happen under this (and possibly the GWB) administration.
To do otherwise, is disingenuous at best and propoganda at the worst.

Regards,
Michael Slisher

Brosephus™

October 13th, 2011
4:07 pm

This is nothing but the Iran-Contra affair all over again. WIthout hard proof, nothings gonna happen to anybody other than some low level resignations.

josef

October 13th, 2011
4:08 pm

PHIL

“P.S. It is kind of funny to see Wayne LaPierre in a tizzy about guns run amuck”

I got a chuckle out of that one, too….

Jay

October 13th, 2011
4:09 pm

“The facts as found throughout the months long investigation bear out that ATF knowingly allowed weapons to be sold to straw buyers, and in some cases insisted to gun-shops that they allow sales to proceed that the gun-shops objected to. Guns were let “walk” with no means to trace whatsoever.”

I agree, Mr. Slisher. That’s what happened. And it was pretty damn stupid.

carlosgvv

October 13th, 2011
4:09 pm

Meanwhile, a gun nut goes into a beauty parlor looking for his estranged wife and kills eight people in a violent rage. How did he get these guns? Why do so many in American insist on mis-reading our Constitution when it clearly means that guns are only for a military? I can only guess that for most of these people, guns are a phallic symbol that substitute for a biological problem. If all of you would just get some Viagra, maybe your precious guns would have less meaning in your pathetic lives.

getalife

October 13th, 2011
4:09 pm

How many investigations did the gop accuse President Clinton of false charges?

It took three years to start another one.

The gop are slipping.

Michael Slisher

October 13th, 2011
4:10 pm

Oh, sorry, I wanted to add that, yes, I do read all emails that come to me. In my job, it is the primary means of communication. To NOT do so would be to perform my job duties at less than expected levels.
In Mr. Holder’s case, if he doesn’t read every email, I would trust that he has someone tasked with doing so and instructed to advise him of those matters that required his attention. If he didn’t then you can only conclude that he is incompetent in administering / performing the job that we the people are paying him to do.

Regards again,
Michael Slisher

Jack Buit

October 13th, 2011
4:10 pm

When the cool agents over at the ATF insist on naming an operation is named after one of the best Vin Diesel movies ever, someone is going to get hurt. In this case, it seems to be the feelings of the NRA that were hurt the worst.

Nothing goes with firearms like alcohol. The tobacco? Not so much.
- Jack Buit

Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)

October 13th, 2011
4:11 pm

Well, I might of knowed. Sooner or later it’s going to get around to taking the anti-tank weapon and two machine guns I use for hunting and self-defense away from me. Well, you can have them when you pry my cold, dead hands off of the triggers, cops.

It all starts off innocent enough. You read about a operation to take guns from a bunch of drug smugglers. Good, you say to yourself. Then it all turns nasty. Pretty soon you see it’s all a way to track guns sold to everybody. If they can track them to drug smugglers, they can track them to you.

Well, this old boy is onto you now. Next time I’m doubling the money I give to the NRA. I’ll use a Second Amenment solution if I have to.

Jack Buit

October 13th, 2011
4:12 pm

Jay has confirmed the confirmation of the theory theory.

ty webb

October 13th, 2011
4:13 pm

Jay,
So a US Border Patrol agent is killed with guns that the US Government pretty much gave to criminals, and it’s President Obama that is the victim of “hate driven” imaginations…What ever happened to holding the government accountable?… and it’s just a guess, but I couldn’t imagine Ashcroft or Gonzales getting the same benefit of a doubt from you.

Jay

October 13th, 2011
4:13 pm

Interesting how quickly newcomers pop in on such a topic.

Recon (2nd.and 3rd.)

October 13th, 2011
4:13 pm

Unfortunately, for A.G. Holder the “I get tons of memo’s and emails daily and I can’t read them all” defense probably won’t flush. It’s his job to be aware and very much in the loop of an operation like Fast and Furious that involved weapons crossing borders into another country or in this case Mexico.

sam

October 13th, 2011
4:15 pm

if there was no tracking of the guns, how do they know it was their guns at crime scene?

Jay

October 13th, 2011
4:15 pm

I’m all for holding those responsible accountable for their mistakes, Ty.

What makes you think otherwise? Do you believe President Obama helped to plan and run an investigation out of the US attorney’s office in Phoenix?

That seems to be your implication.

Peadawg

October 13th, 2011
4:15 pm

“Unfortunately, for A.G. Holder the “I get tons of memo’s and emails daily and I can’t read them all” defense probably won’t flush.”

That’s as flimsy as Cam Newton’s “But..but..but I didn’t know my dad washing shopping me around to Mississippi State for $180,000″. Sad, but funny.

Jay

October 13th, 2011
4:16 pm

Serial numbers, Sam.

getalife

October 13th, 2011
4:16 pm

Michael Slisher ,

Not me.

If you sent me a email, I would not read it and delete it.

It is called spam. .

ty webb

October 13th, 2011
4:17 pm

Ipredict the appointment of an email reading czar in the very near future…or maybe an entire email reading super commission.

ty webb

October 13th, 2011
4:18 pm

Jay,
Obama? No…But in this case, the buck stops with Holder.

Ed

October 13th, 2011
4:18 pm

Jay,I guess this article is really the best you can do trying to cover the Holder.
Your in tough spot because the true story is all over the media.

josef

October 13th, 2011
4:19 pm

Well, not so sure about this particular memo, but of course he can’t read them ALL, but I would posit that memos on something like this he would be derelict in his duties did he not. Personally I would uncork a bottle of the good stuff if Holder gets his…I don’t trust that Druid…We all know, though. that whatever comes down the pike, it’ll be some underling Shmo who gets the blame and an exit visa from the DOJ…

Michael Slisher

October 13th, 2011
4:19 pm

Jay: “Interesting how quickly newcomers pop in on such a topic.”
I can’t speak for anyone else, but as for myself this is a topic that is high on my list to monitor. I’ll admit to being a pro-firearms person (gun-nut?), but even more importantly than that, I am amazed and appalled at the frightening level of incompetence or malfeasence that has been displayed by our government in this campaign. I google “fast & furious” + Holder daily trying to keep myself abreast of the latest developments. Today, your blog was the top like on Google when I did so.

Regards,
Michael Slisher

Jay

October 13th, 2011
4:19 pm

According to ATF:

“Today, there are nearly 4,500 active Project Gunrunner investigations throughout the United States. Since its inception in 2006, and through Fiscal Year 2010, ATF’s Project Gunrunner has recommended over 1,100 criminal cases and in excess of 2,500 defendants for prosecution. To date, Project Gunrunner investigations have resulted in the seizure of over 10,000 firearms and nearly one million rounds of ammunition destined for Mexico.

getalife

October 13th, 2011
4:20 pm

Nothing goes with firearms like alcohol. The tobacco? Not so much.
- Jack Buit

Well, I like a good Monte Cristo Cuban #2 in the side of my mouth when I shoot .

David H.

October 13th, 2011
4:20 pm

3 questions:
1) If the intent was to track the guns, how did they lose as many as they lost?
2) If the intent was to track the guns to the cartels, why did they stop tracking them once they got to the border?
3) Where did you get the 65,000 guns statistic?

Normal

October 13th, 2011
4:20 pm

Scooter

October 13th, 2011
4:21 pm

Do we really believe the “changed nothing in Chicago” administration didn’t authorize this to reinforce their earlier claims that American guns are large contributors to Mexican cartel violence. Does that really seem so outlandish, considering Chicago politics has opened a branch office at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave.?

Why not just give some fissile material to terrorists so we can track them to their hideouts? It would be easier to trace.

Normal

October 13th, 2011
4:22 pm

David H.

1. They were Republicans

2. They were Republicans

3. From Republicans

Man, that was easy! :)

josef

October 13th, 2011
4:22 pm

Michael…
Stick around, though….we always need fresh meat!

sam

October 13th, 2011
4:24 pm

well jay, there’s one way of tracking them.

Joe Mama

October 13th, 2011
4:24 pm

getalife — “Well, I like a good Monte Cristo Cuban #2 in the side of my mouth when I shoot.”

Do you also love it when a plan comes together? :D

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_%22Hannibal%22_Smith

Ronnie Raygun

October 13th, 2011
4:25 pm

Why doesn’t Holder just chalk it up to an anonymous middle manager and say that he’s been fired/disciplined? The Conned never questioned it the dozen or so times Bush used it to excuse screw-ups when he was in office. I’m sure the Conned would give the Obama administration the same benefit of a doubt.

Doggone/GA

October 13th, 2011
4:25 pm

“Why do so many in American insist on mis-reading our Constitution when it clearly means that guns are only for a military?”

Because it isn’t AT ALL clear that your interpretation is the correct one. *I* certainly have never interpreted it the way you do.

Generation$crewed

October 13th, 2011
4:26 pm

Has our adminstration been asked for documents about Fast and Furious from the Mexican Government?

If so has our adminstration worked with the mexican Government to find out what exactly happened?

Why did we not inform mexico we were doing this? We would have wanted Mexico to inform us if they were going to not only let 1500 firearms into our country, especially if the mexican Government was going to help in getting the guns across the border.

I thought Holder said he just didn’t understand the question when asked when he became aware of the program.

Brosephus™

October 13th, 2011
4:28 pm

We all know, though. that whatever comes down the pike, it’ll be some underling Shmo who gets the blame and an exit visa from the DOJ…

Exactly, and anybody who doesn’t realize that isn’t being honest with themselves. Both sides do the same thing, so neither one is going to rock the boat and put their own ass on the line. They’ll make political hay about it for a while, and then toss it aside for the next shiny thing.

getalife

October 13th, 2011
4:28 pm

Joe Mama,

I got a Python that is perfect for gator fishing :)

St Simons - we're on Island time

October 13th, 2011
4:29 pm

“Obama administration proposed a new regulation that would require border-state gun shops to notify officials if a single individual attempted to buy large numbers of guns, the NRA protested bitterly.
“This is just a shallow excuse to engage in a sweeping firearms registration scheme,” LaPierre wrote. At the NRA’s insistence, the House passed a resolution opposing that regulation..”

And with all that money Wayne saved from pesky rules, the gun lobby can afford these lovely gun-thread trolls. see win-win

Paul

October 13th, 2011
4:30 pm

Lots of points, here. Do ops like this require approval from the top before being initiated? Apparently not. Will those at the lower level engage in damage control and attempt to shield themselves by containing information as much as possible? Probably. Did Holder know details earlier than he said? Now we have to give him the benefit of the doubt. Just as we give Issa the benefit of the doubt for not doing the same kind of oversight he implies the AG should have exercised.

Seems to me the AG’s biggest exposure is if he lied under oath. We’ve seen time and again – Scooter Libby being the latest example – it’s the lie that gets you, not the actions the lie was concerned about.

And that LaPierre stuff? More manipulating the gullible for money and power. When the issue morphs into his conspiracies, it frankly diminishes the importance of the real issue in the minds of rational Americans.

Peadawg

October 13th, 2011
4:31 pm

“I got a Python that is perfect for gator fishing”

I’ve got one too…atleast that’s what Jay’s wife said last night. Oooooooooooohhhhh. :lol:

getalife

October 13th, 2011
4:32 pm

It’s a good distraction.

Look over there, Iran tried to assassinate a Saudi.

Lets start another war.

Yahoo!

sam

October 13th, 2011
4:33 pm

i am no fan of holder but seems to me the day to day working of the ATF are not his #1 priority. he trusted them, they screwed up royally, and they were fire. now its just more ammunition for wing nuts and publicity hounds (see Issa)…I wonder if we can go back to all the other crime scenes, trace the guns back to sellers, and chrge them with murder? this whole thing was a bad idea, poorly executed,and tragically a border agnt got killed. but i think its being taken a bit far..no?

Joe COOL

October 13th, 2011
4:33 pm

Con Bumper sticker:

“Who Needs A Blue Pill, When I Can Talk About My Gun”

Jay

October 13th, 2011
4:34 pm

Here’s a piece, from Fox News, that puts the “what did Holder know when” question in context:

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/10/13/emails-justice-officials-blank-memos/

sam

October 13th, 2011
4:34 pm

wait a minute Peadawg, we are allowed to talk about wives on here? uh oh…let me think for a minute

Mick

October 13th, 2011
4:35 pm

If I was holder, I wouldn’t be worrying about congress too much; afterall karl rove proved you can ignore them with no penalty…

carlosgvv

October 13th, 2011
4:36 pm

Doggone/GA

And the rest of my post explains why you never will.