The ‘magic button’ of economics doesn’t work
Growing up in the ’60s, William Beach knew it was a good idea to show up to caddy at the local country club on Thursdays. The future economist knew that on Thursdays, most of the rich men in town skipped work and met at the course to play golf, and they would usually be good for healthy tips.
Today, Beach works as head of data analysis at the Heritage Foundation, a conservative Washington think tank. Looking back, he told a Georgia Public Policy Foundation conference last week, he believes that those high-earning men worked just four days a week because at the time, high marginal tax rates of 90 percent to 70 percent didn’t make it worth their time to work a full schedule.
In other words, marginal tax rates drive the availability of country club tee times.
Beach didn’t seem to be joking in those remarks, and his audience certainly didn’t take it that way. His story offers a wonderful example of what I call “magic-button economics,” the tendency to explain almost anything that happens in economics and human life through the factor of tax rates on the wealthy.
Christine Ries, an economics professor at Georgia Tech who served on a state tax-reform commission last year, also subscribes to magic-button economics. In her own presentation at the GPPF conference, Ries bemoaned the Legislature’s failure to adopt the commission’s recommendations earlier this year, but predicted the setback would be temporary.
The commission’s recommendations, she reminded her listeners, would have reduced the tax burden on the wealthiest of Georgians — the “job creators,” she called them — by cutting the state income tax rate in half. To her credit, Ries also acknowledged that cutting taxes on the wealthy would mean putting more of the tax burden on the lower and middle classes, mainly by broadening the sales tax to apply to items such as food. But that’s a burden they should be willing to bear, she said.
“If you’re going to put a good tax reform proposal together, it’s going to be regressive,” she said. “People are going to have to accept that.”
Georgia already has a very low tax burden on business, she acknowledged. But it’s essential to Georgia’s future that taxes on the wealthy be made lower still, especially since the state is trying to compete with states such as Florida, South Carolina and Tennessee, with even lower taxes on job creators.
If Georgia enacts such reform, she predicted “growth beyond what any of us imagine, in a shorter time than any of us imagine.”
In other words, magic-button economics.
Unfortunately, the magic button hasn’t seemed to work for Florida, with a 10.7 percent unemployment rate; or for Tennessee, with a 9.7 percent unemployment rate; or for South Carolina, which has an unemployment rate of 11.1 percent, all well above the national average of 9.1 percent.
It also hasn’t worked at the national level. President Bush hit the magic button hard, enacting major tax cuts in 2001 and 2003. Yet even before the recession hit, gross domestic product and the number of jobs had both grown more slowly in the 2000s than they had since World War II.
In their comments, Ries and Beach talked about computerized economic models that Heritage Foundation is creating to help legislators and citizens project the impact of tax reform in Georgia. Those models will assume that tax reform inspires considerable growth, Ries confirmed in emails after the conference.
In other words, those models will project “magic-button” economic growth that is likely to be much too optimistic, putting the state budget at great risk. In fact, such models are so notoriously inaccurate that the Congressional Budget Office refuses to use them to project revenue.
Earlier this year, for example, Heritage used such assumptions to model the impact of a GOP proposal to cut a variety of taxes at the national level, with most again accruing to the wealthy. According to the model, the proposal would lower unemployment to 6.4 percent by next year, and to an unheard-of 2.8 percent by 2021.
After howls of disbelief from other economists, Heritage was forced to withdraw those projections as unrealistic. But that same approach is now coming to Georgia.
– Jay Bookman
Tell us what you think about the site
Customer Care »
Vacation stops, manage subscriptions and more
AJC Services
Sections
Other Editions
Visitor Agreement | Privacy Statement
© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
752 comments Add your comment
USMC
October 5th, 2011
2:26 pm
The Delusional DemocRatic Party is spiraling out of control… This woman is a wingnut!
‘Anyone’ Can See Economy’s Improving, DNC Chair Insists
http://www.cnsnews.com/blog/craig-bannister/anyone-can-see-economys-improving-dnc-chair-insists
AmVet
October 5th, 2011
2:26 pm
“…forgot about the congenital humor deficiency among leftists.”
Which explains why virtually all of the brilliant, acclaimed comedians and artists of our era are dead red Republicans, huh rag?
Do you even think about what you write before doing so?
1811/0311
October 5th, 2011
2:29 pm
Granny:
“Are we ready?
Oh Heavens yes.
We fought and won this battle before
and we will again.”
What’s this “we” stuff about fighting ? What unit were you in and what war ?
Bosch
October 5th, 2011
2:30 pm
“An educated populous is not good news for the Democrats.”
What’s not good for the Democrats has nothing to do with the populace being educated by Fox and Rush, but the real problem is the dumb asses who are so gullible to believe their propoganda and lies.
1811/0311
October 5th, 2011
2:30 pm
Do you libs. really want to be like leftest Europe ?
Good little liberal
October 5th, 2011
2:30 pm
My God. he’s still going.
This time its a lecture that will never be read.
Mental illness is rampent in this poor kid.
SOME BODY PLEASE EXPLAIN TO THIS IDIOT THAT I DON’T GIVE A DAMN ABOUT WHAT HE THINKS OR SAYS!!
Bosch
October 5th, 2011
2:30 pm
And AmVet,
Shame on you for insulting @@ so….
Steve - USA
October 5th, 2011
2:33 pm
Wow….don’t really see either side here traveling the high road.
1811/0311
October 5th, 2011
2:33 pm
Headline: “NFL owner’s extravagant new toy”
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/shutdown_corner/post/Dan-Snyder-paid-around-70-million-for-a-224-foo?urn=nfl-wp8713
Can you libs. imagine the jobs that would have been lost had this “evil rich person” not bought this Yacht (building it, servicing it, maintaining it, docking it, manning it, insuring it,) ?
Ol' Timer
October 5th, 2011
2:34 pm
@Good Lil’ Liberal: I’d be interested in seeing some data to show that Supply Side economics has worked. It was a political ploy — everyone love tax cuts — and a delusion, because we were told by the supply siders that deficits didn’t matter.
Show me some data. I think you’ll be hard pressed to find anything other than abysmal failure and escalating deficits under Reagan, both Bushes and diminished deficits under Clinton, the Democrat.
1811/0311
October 5th, 2011
2:34 pm
“Ga. records show Troy Davis’ final death row hours”
Does anyone have the “records” for the police officer’s final hours on this earth ?
Keep Up the Good Fight!
October 5th, 2011
2:35 pm
Ahh… the “raging maniac” posts continue…. as do the lies and personal insults.
Kamchak
October 5th, 2011
2:35 pm
Melt-down.
Too predictable.
ragnar danneskjold
October 5th, 2011
2:36 pm
Dear Forget @ 2:25, just my reminder to you that humor is subjective, as the best humorous writer of the day, other than maybe Dave Barry, is Ann Coulter. Admittedly she writes with a sharp point.
Granny Godzilla
October 5th, 2011
2:36 pm
Scout
The Grenadier Grannys of course, a small but tightly knit, highly skilled unit in the Class War.
We have matching house coats and fluffy slippers.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
October 5th, 2011
2:37 pm
Hey Scout, so your feelings on Tony Bolgna there in NY?
Trotsky Foxtrot
October 5th, 2011
2:37 pm
1811/0311 : “Do you libs. really want to be like leftest Europe ?”
Well, considering the panic it would fill you with, just maybe …
Don't Forget
October 5th, 2011
2:37 pm
Scout, the “consumerism” of the top 1% will not sustain the economy. Maybe they could “cast their bread upon the waters?”
AmVet
October 5th, 2011
2:39 pm
Bosch, a cheap shot, I guess…
But you have to admit that (the 57 year old? LOL.) GLL is also eerily obsessed with drawing negative attention to himself.
As the nights grow colder, the passion of the brave occupiers of Wall Street only grows stronger.
They’re called “the 99%,” because they stand for all of us left behind by the massive concentration of wealth among the richest 1%. The protesters’ unrelenting campaign against the corporate takeover of our democracy is being fought in the best traditions of nonviolent resistance.
The 99% are both an inspiration and a call that needs to be answered. So we’re answering it today, in a nationwide Virtual March on Wall Street to support their demand for an economy that serves the many, not the few.
If you’ve been waiting for an opportunity to stand in solidarity with Occupy Wall Street, today is the day to get off the sidelines. Join in the virtual march by doing what hundreds have done spontaneously across the web: Take your picture holding a sign that tells your story, along with the words “I am the 99%.”
This is not some contrived, astro-turfed gang like the mysteriously absent Tea Party wing of the Republican Party.
This is grass roots America. This is real protest. This is the best tradition of standing up to corrupted power.
And they are an inspiration to a whole boatload of us!
And I thank them for their courageous effort to reclaim our god-given sovereignty!!!
USA! USA! USA!
jconservative
October 5th, 2011
2:41 pm
Enter your comments here
Joe Mama
October 5th, 2011
2:41 pm
1811 — “Do you libs. really want to be like leftest Europe ?”
Given a choice between that and an imperialist oligarchy, then yeah, I’d rather be like Europe.
Bosch
October 5th, 2011
2:43 pm
AmVet,
“GLL is also eerily obsessed with drawing negative attention to himself”
Yes, and as our dear friend @@ loved so much — the victim card! OH WOE IS ME!!!
Paul
October 5th, 2011
2:44 pm
What’s with the spreading ridicule of clothing when referring to Candidate Romney? Started out with Redneck Convert and now others are picking up on it.
I don’t see any other ridicule of other religious clothing or symbolism. Nothing about Jews and yarmulkes. Silence when it comes to Catholic priests wearing dress-like robes instead of pants. Nothing poking fun at Amish hats or aprons. Buddhist robes? Nada. Ridicule burqas? Not on your life.
Seems to me the only difference between LDS sacred clothing and other religions is other religions have their symbols of commitment exposed to the world. LDS are more low-key and keep it as a personal reminder of their covenants.
Seems to me it ought to be a nontopic.
Trotsky Foxtrot
October 5th, 2011
2:44 pm
War of 1811: 1811 — “Do you libs. really want to be like leftest Europe ?”
Leftist Europe? Go tell that to Mister Sar Co Zeeee …
Joe Mama
October 5th, 2011
2:44 pm
R, Danneskjold — “the best humorous writer of the day, other than maybe Dave Barry, is Ann Coulter.”
Just don’t look into her eyes. That’s how she hypnotizes her prey.
If you see her unhinge her lower jaw, you better run like hell.
Top 10 Reads: Oct. 5th, 2011
October 5th, 2011
2:47 pm
[...] The ‘magic button’ of economics doesn’t work – Jay Bookman, The Atlanta Journal-Constitution [...]
Armed Liberal
October 5th, 2011
2:47 pm
1811 – Yes, yes, a thousand times yes. I want that sweet sweet elixar of higher taxes, government run healthcare, free education, longer vacations, secure retirement and of course the free pot.
(that last one was a joke dontchaknow)
Joe Mama
October 5th, 2011
2:48 pm
Paul — “What’s with the spreading ridicule of clothing when referring to Candidate Romney?”
Some LDS adherents ascribe mystical powers to “the garment.”
“I don’t see any other ridicule of other religious clothing or symbolism. Nothing about Jews and yarmulkes. Silence when it comes to Catholic priests wearing dress-like robes instead of pants. Nothing poking fun at Amish hats or aprons. Buddhist robes? Nada. Ridicule burqas? Not on your life.”
Again, some LDS adherents believe that the garments possess mystical properties that affect their faithful wearers.
“Seems to me the only difference between LDS sacred clothing and other religions is other religions have their symbols of commitment exposed to the world. LDS are more low-key and keep it as a personal reminder of their covenants. Seems to me it ought to be a nontopic.”
My wife refers to herself as a “recovering Mormon,” and says that, in her experience, most LDS don’t wear the garments, but some do. And a subset of those who wear them get *really* freakishly attached to them, ostensibly because of the supposed mystical properties that devolve from them.
With all due respect, I think that it might be worth knowing which of those groups Mr. Romney believes he belongs to.
Paul
October 5th, 2011
2:49 pm
Joe Mama
“If you see her (Ann Coulter) unhinge her lower jaw, you better run like hell.”
Like this?
http://tinyurl.com/3ktm72k
AmVet
October 5th, 2011
2:49 pm
Ann Coulter????
Oh yeah, a real Lenny Bruce or George Carlin, that one!
She is not in the top 5000 of any list of comedians!! Ever. Anywhere.
Hysterical…
Good little liberal
October 5th, 2011
2:50 pm
GLL — “In 2003 and 2004, people had jobs.”
- – 2002 and 2003 saw some of the worst job losses of the Bush Administration — worse than any two-year period until the very tail end of his administration. I’m afraid that I can’t credit your statement.- –
They still weren’t as bad as they are now.
- Fox doesn’t educate. It indoctrinates. How many corrections has Fox issued when it ‘mislabels’ currently misbehaving Republicans as Democrats onscreen? How many times has Fox corrected itself publicly when getting caught using misrepresented footage?- -
They are about the same as far as corrections as the other cable channels. I know that’s not what you want to hear, but its true. Cable News is a hard thing. A lot of misses and near misses.
“Furthermore, how do you explain the Democrats taking Congress in 2006 and the White House in 2008 if Fox was such an irresistible force?- -
Alcohol. But seriously, by 2006, the “rightness” of FOX had inspired the more “leftness” of the others. It is the reason for the discourse that we are seeing now. I hate it. If I had the money, I would start a News channel that would really be fair and make a huge point of promoting even-handedness. But I’m afraid that it would end up like Turner’s Good News show that he ran on Saturday (maybe Sunday, I don’t remember) mornings. It was boring as hell.
“That’s disingenuous, considering that your whole argument at that point was that suburbs were doing poorly and CONSEQUENTLY would vote Republican. Now you concede that urban areas are also doing poorly, but inexplicably, they WON’T vote Republican.”
I lived in both the inner city and the burbs and the inner city is much harder left. They are not going to vote for a Republican. They may not vote at all, but they won’t vote right.
“Irrelevant. We helped prosecute people who did it in WWII. We went on record as calling it a war crime, and the Bush Administration threw that out the window and made us all hypocrites.”
I’m not defending waterboarding, but I am making the comparisons to Obama subjecting people to real torture and burning to death.
“Not at all; I’m opposed to that as well. And FYI, we were doing that during the Bush administration, too.”
But that eliminates the argument for Obama that he used so brilliantly in 2008
“To be fair, your argument is much like one that got batted around late in WWII. Is it more humane to drop incendiary bombs on Tokyo or an atom bomb on Hiroshima? FWIW, more people died in the spring 1945 firebombing of Tokyo than died in the Nagasaki bombing. Estimates vary, but the Tokyo death toll was something like 1.5x-2x that of the Nagasaki bombing.”
I know that. My Dad was at Iwo and I read about WWII most of my life. I’ve always wanted to go to Japan. Dad would be spinning in his grave.
“And I *still* don’t support it, even if Obama wants to continue it. The FISA court is pretty easy to convince — if a President thinks he needs to bypass it in order to get his wiretap, then I think it’s a dead cert that he’s trying to wiretap something that he shouldn’t be. No matter whether there’s a D or R behind his name.”
Again, this takes away a hammer for the Democrats
*You* brought up our military involvement in a country where we hadn’t declared war. I pointed out that there were two other such countries, and asked what objections you had about *those* conflicts. I’d still appreciate a direct and substantive response on that point.”
I’m not justifying the wars. That’s another discussion. I’m just stating that it is another one of those things that helped Obama before but is now gone.
And thank you for yours. I am pleased to engage in polite discourse with other polite people, even if we disagree.
We disagree? DAMNIT!!!
Man, if I don’t get to work, I’ll be back in Atlanta living under a bridge.
Have a good one. It’s been a true pleasure.
jconservative
October 5th, 2011
2:50 pm
The problem with these type economic models is that they leave economics and enter the realm of predicting human behavior. Under Reagan the tax cut models said job creators would create jobs.
And they did, But overseas, not in the USA. The models did n ot indicate that, but that’s what happened.
Economist who try and run these models leave the realm of economics, their expertise, and enter the realm of human behavior where, like everyone, they are clueless.
That is the problems with these type models and why none have worked. No one can predict human behavior on a small sample of people. And those people in position to create jobs are a small sample of people.
It makes simple sense that if job creators have more money they would expand businesses and hire more people. But it has never happened. And when it did the jobs were not ctreated here, but over there.
History teaches only those willing to learn.
1811/0311
October 5th, 2011
2:50 pm
Granny @ 2:36
Just as I thought.
1811/0311
October 5th, 2011
2:51 pm
Good Fight:
“Hey Scout, so your feelings on Tony Bolgna there in NY?”
V.P. Biden doesn’t know Van Jones.
I don’t know Tony Bolgna ……………………..
Granny Godzilla
October 5th, 2011
2:52 pm
Scout
Just as I instructed you.
Mr. Silly Pants.
Joe Mama
October 5th, 2011
2:52 pm
Paul — “Like this?”
I can’t see it, but if it involves some sort of reptilian, an unhinged lower jaw and some sort of small prey, then yeah, that’s what I was talking about.
Good little liberal
October 5th, 2011
2:53 pm
Ol’ Timer
I’ve ran a business for 25 years. When I pay less taxes, I spend more on my business. That usually results in more work and my hiring more people. All the data in the world is not going to convince me that this same model wouldn’t work anywhere.
ragnar danneskjold
October 5th, 2011
2:53 pm
Example:
In my job as communications director of Defenders of Republicans Unfairly Attacked by the Media and Then Immediately Sold Out by Their Fellow Republicans (DORUAMATISOTFR), I am required to point out that the question and audience reaction went like this:
“In 2010, when I was deployed to Iraq …”
(No booing.)
“I had to lie about who I was …”
(No booing — despite the fact that not talking about your sex life with your co-workers is not lying about who you are. In fact, many Americans manage quite easily to go days and days without talking about their sex lives with co-workers.)
“because I’m a gay soldier …”
(No booing, although we didn’t ask and would prefer that you not tell.)
“and I didn’t want to lose my job.”
(No booing.)
To recap: So far, a remarkably boo-free interaction.
Finally, we got to the question: “My question is, under one of your presidencies, do you intend to circumvent the progress that’s been made for gay and lesbian soldiers in the military?”
Then there was booing. And for good reason.
It is beyond absurd to demand that Republican candidates pledge not to consider altering a recent rule change overturning a military policy that had been in effect from the beginning of warfare until the last few weeks of the 111th Congress.
Of course there was booing for that!
At the time of the vote — five minutes ago — only eight Republicans in the entire U.S. Senate supported eliminating Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell. It’s safe to assume that no one on the stage supported this sexualization of the military, except maybe one of the nut candidates polling at 3 percent.
This is not an anti-gay position; it’s a pro-military position. The basic idea is that sexual bonds are disruptive to the military bond.
Soldiers, sailors and Marines living in close quarters who are having sex with one another, used to have sex with one another or would like to have sex with one another simply cannot function as a well-oiled fighting machine. A battalion of married couples facing a small unit of heterosexual men would be slaughtered.
Don't Forget
October 5th, 2011
2:53 pm
jconservative
October 5th, 2011
2:50 pm
great post
Paul
October 5th, 2011
2:53 pm
Joe Mama
And some Catholics, Buddhists and Jews have personal views about their clothing, too.
Fact is, such views, particularly for LDS, are definitely not doctrinal.
Personally, I don’t think it necessary or appropriate to delve any more into Candidate Romney’s religious views. From what I’ve seen here, nearly all would be incapable of putting them into any meaningful context.
And given this is a peculiarly LDS-candidate obsession (no one asked Lieberman if he was one of the fanatical Jews masquerading as mainstream) it’s all the more reason to stick to meaningful policy views.
HDB
October 5th, 2011
2:55 pm
Good little liberal
October 5th, 2011
2:05 pm
When the GOP persists in writing off constituencies, what options do those ignored constituencies HAVE?? NO GOP candidate has come into my neighborhood, presented his platform and attemtped to convince me why I SHOULD vote Republican….but what they have done is show me a myriad of reasons NOT to vote Republican!!
Kamchak
October 5th, 2011
1:59 pm
“Conservatism is oriented around free exchange of ideas.
James Bopp (a conservative) was the one who came up with the idea of a purity pledge.”
Lest you also forget that Colin Powell was BOOED off the stage at the GOP Convention for saying this:
“”We must be firm, but we must also be fair. We must make sure that reduced government spending does not single out the poor and the middle class. Corporate welfare, welfare for the wealthy must be first in line for elimination. All of us, all of us, my friends, all of us must be willing to do with less from government if we are to avoid condemning our children and grandchildren with a crushing burden of debt which will deny them the American dream.”
“You all know that I believe in a woman’s right to choose and I strongly support affirmative action. I was invited here to share my views with you because we are big enough party and big enough people to disagree on individual issues and still work together for our primary goal.”
If you don’t march in LOCKSTEP, you won’t even be thought of! That’s the ONLY reason people like Cain, Clarence Thomas, Larry Elder, Star Parker, Walter Williams…ans Thomas Sowell are viewed in the light that they are….but I BET that more prejoratives are said about them BEHIND THEIR BACKS rather than to their faces!!
Paul
October 5th, 2011
2:55 pm
Joe Mama
’twas Anna from V, jaw unhinged with rows of dagger-like teeth ready to eat her mate after mating.
Veddy Coulterish!
AmVet
October 5th, 2011
2:56 pm
(CNN) — Like the spokesmen for Arab dictators feigning bewilderment over protesters’ demands, mainstream television news reporters finally training their attention on the growing Occupy Wall Street protest movement seem determined to cast it as the random, silly blather of an ungrateful and lazy generation of weirdos. They couldn’t be more wrong and, as time will tell, may eventually be forced to accept the inevitability of their own obsolescence.
More predictably perhaps, a Fox News reporter appears flummoxed in this outtake from “On the Record,” in which the respondent refuses to explain how he wants the protests to “end.” Transcending the shallow partisan politics of the moment, the protester explains “As far as seeing it end, I wouldn’t like to see it end. I would like to see the conversation continue.”
Anyone who says he has no idea what these folks are protesting is not being truthful. Whether we agree with them or not, we all know what they are upset about, and we all know that there are investment bankers working on Wall Street getting richer while things for most of the rest of us are getting tougher. What upsets banking’s defenders and politicians alike is the refusal of this movement to state its terms or set its goals in the traditional language of campaigns.
Anyone who says he has no idea what these folks are protesting is not being truthful. Whether we agree with them or not, we all know what they are upset about, and we all know that there are investment bankers working on Wall Street getting richer while things for most of the rest of us are getting tougher. What upsets banking’s defenders and politicians alike is the refusal of this movement to state its terms or set its goals in the traditional language of campaigns.
Kamchak
October 5th, 2011
2:56 pm
What’s with the spreading ridicule of clothing when referring to Candidate Romney?
Since evangelicals are the deciders of the Republican candidate for president, I think it is a symbol of magic and occultism that will lead to the rejection of Romney by evangelicals.
1811/0311
October 5th, 2011
2:56 pm
Recon/USMC:
Time to change our “USMC” bumper stickers to say, “Heterosexual Marine” !
http://shop.cafepress.com/gay-marine
Keep Up the Good Fight!
October 5th, 2011
2:58 pm
Scout the rabbit hole creator ducks away…. guess that happens if you only read the headlines and not the full news story. You only know a few things.
1811/0311
October 5th, 2011
2:58 pm
ragnar danneskjold @ 2:53 :
Except for the part about “well oiled” (………………..
that was an excellent post !!
Steve - USA
October 5th, 2011
2:59 pm
To the Occupy Wall Street crowd, life isn’t fair, most of us learn this when we are 12.
Brosephus™ - A rising tide lifts all boats, and a Rolling Tide lifts the Coaches Trophy on 1/9/12
October 5th, 2011
3:00 pm
jcon
Amen brother!!!! They should black out all other posts here until yours is read and signed off on to acknowledge reading for comprehension.
It is beyond absurd to demand that Republican candidates pledge not to consider altering a recent rule change overturning a military policy that had been in effect from the beginning of warfare until the last few weeks of the 111th Congress.
DADT has been in effect since Clinton was in office, and that was not the beginning of warfare. C’mon man…. quit making up stuff.
Paul
October 5th, 2011
3:00 pm
Kamchak
Try symbol of personal covenants to lead a Christ-like life.
But we can see why Evangelicals would not want to acknowledge that, given their track record, don’t we?
MrLiberty
October 5th, 2011
3:01 pm
The better “magic button” is HUMAN ACTION, which also happens to be the title of an outstanding book by Ludwig von Mises. Why don’t you try reading it sometime instead of always sounding like an economic moron? The tax levels, tax credits, deductibility, values, etc. that everyone talks about are really about the fact that human action is far more important to economic decisions than formulas, etc. People will always act in their own self interest, and high tax rates that punish success and low interest rates that encourage borrowing, all play a factor in influencing behavior – positively or negatively.
1811/0311
October 5th, 2011
3:03 pm
Granny:
Ah ……………….. but mine were bright blue with a red stripe !
ragnar danneskjold
October 5th, 2011
3:04 pm
Dear 1811 @ 2:56, I wish I could claim it; that was an example of Chairman Ann’s logic and humor.
1811/0311
October 5th, 2011
3:04 pm
Good Life:
When Biden admits he know Van Jones ……………. I’ll bite.
RIDICULOUS
October 5th, 2011
3:04 pm
Let me get this one straight: Heritage, Ries & Beach think it is OKAY to slash taxes in HALF on the wealthiest/richest of citizens, and oh – we’re so sorry – the middle class et al can make up the difference??? Tell them all to go take a HIKE !!!! (and that would be putting it extremely midly !!!).
Mr. Bookman – you are ABSOLUTELY CORRECT in your writing…it DOES NOT WORK – this is why we are in the shape we are in. It has NOT worked in other states nor certainly on the FEDERAL level.
These people HAVE TO HAVE THEIR SO-CALLED HEADS BURIED IN THE SAND!!!!
1811/0311
October 5th, 2011
3:04 pm
ragnar:
………………….. and funny it was !
Steve - USA
October 5th, 2011
3:05 pm
more CAPS please.
1811/0311
October 5th, 2011
3:05 pm
ragnar:
By the way, I assume you are of Swedish decent ……………. were you in the military?
Kamchak
October 5th, 2011
3:06 pm
Try symbol of personal covenants to lead a Christ-like life.
True, but beside the point. The “temple garments” are also believed to be capable of warding off evil spirits.
Too far out there for evangelicals.
That’s why I say that, as of now, Perry is the only one that passes the evangelical’s purity test.
Joe Mama
October 5th, 2011
3:07 pm
R. Danneskjold — “Then there was booing. And for good reason.”
Don’t care.
If the boo-ers were so proud and so justified in what they did, then how come none of them have come forward to say ‘yeah, I booed and this is why, so stop slagging on us?’
I’ll tell you why. Because they know that what they did was wrong and they shouldn’t have done it. And because they are rightly ashamed of themselves for having done it.
“This is not an anti-gay position; it’s a pro-military position. The basic idea is that sexual bonds are disruptive to the military bond.”
I knew plenty of married heterosexual couples in the Army, including some couples who served in the same unit. Didn’t seem to cause any problems at all.
“Soldiers, sailors and Marines living in close quarters who are having sex with one another, used to have sex with one another or would like to have sex with one another simply cannot function as a well-oiled fighting machine.”
Oh, great. Are you one of the ‘get the chicks out of the military’ Cro-Magnons, Raggie?
“A battalion of married couples facing a small unit of heterosexual men would be slaughtered.”
I don’t know about that. I knew some pretty tough ladies in the Army. Some might have been gay, but I don’t care. If you can do the job and you’ve got my back, then I don’t care what your plumbing looks like or how you rock n’ roll in bed.
getalife
October 5th, 2011
3:10 pm
Get up off your knees cons,
Stand up to corporate power.
Lets unite to end this corruption.
Stonethrower
October 5th, 2011
3:10 pm
@1811/0311 Your hero’s from the previous administration never served their country either, getting deferments or using connections to jump the line and serve in the guard, yet you gave them a free pass.
Joe Mama
October 5th, 2011
3:11 pm
Paul — “And some Catholics, Buddhists and Jews have personal views about their clothing, too.”
I’m not aware of any such individuals running for President.
“Fact is, such views, particularly for LDS, are definitely not doctrinal.”
Neither is polygamy, but some LDS still practice it. I think that asking Romney what his stand is on some of those practices is a reasonble thing.
“Personally, I don’t think it necessary or appropriate to delve any more into Candidate Romney’s religious views. From what I’ve seen here, nearly all would be incapable of putting them into any meaningful context.”
Shrug. I don’t think that most people are able to put *any* candidate’s religious views into any sort of meaningful context. But that’s no excuse for keeping mum about them.
“And given this is a peculiarly LDS-candidate obsession (no one asked Lieberman if he was one of the fanatical Jews masquerading as mainstream) it’s all the more reason to stick to meaningful policy views.”
Are you sure that no one asked Lieberman that, ever? In any election? That’s ringing a faint bell and I may have to go do some research.
Now is not my time
October 5th, 2011
3:11 pm
I may be a big guy, but I’m not a blithering nut like the rest of you!
Now if you’ll excuse me, I’ve got a couple of pastrami’s on rye with my name on em.
Good little liberal
October 5th, 2011
3:12 pm
HDB
Republicans haven’t been in my neighborhood either. Democrats are driving me crazy. But you see, someone walking around my neighborhood means nothing to me other than the fact that I am amazed that they walk all the way up my driveway.
We are different people. i understand that. But why is someone knocking on your door more important than the obvious problems that this administration has refused to do anything about? Yes, they talk a great game, but they have completely dropped the ball.
This is another thing that I openly admit that I don’t get. I’ve had Black friends that say the same thing: Republicans never come into my neighborhood. Well Jehovah Witnesses do. Are you running out to their churches? I’ll bet that you aren’t. I don’t want people knocking on my door. Is this a Black thing? You want people knocking on your door? I’ll bet you guys have some great vacuum cleaners and fuller brushes. (Just kidding)
Steve - USA
October 5th, 2011
3:12 pm
getalife@3:10
Isn’t that quite a broad brush. Is your position all Corporations are bad?
Granny Godzilla
October 5th, 2011
3:12 pm
Scout
Bet that was a hell of a housecoat.
Hope the slippers matched.
(Just kiddin’)
I think you are wrong about a lot of stuff…but I do thank you for your service.
Mick
October 5th, 2011
3:12 pm
Newsflash…A democrat wins the west virginia governors race…so much for the repub wave….
Jefferson
October 5th, 2011
3:13 pm
Sgt Carter don’t want anyone kissing on him but Miss Bunny.
Paul
October 5th, 2011
3:13 pm
Kamchak
Just ’cause some individuals believe something fantastical does not mean the belief should be charged to the group.
There are Evangelicals and Jews and Catholics and all manner of other people in other faiths who believe nondoctrinal stuff but that doesn’t mean anyone should take that as representative.
Good little liberal
October 5th, 2011
3:15 pm
Steve – USA
Psssst. Don’t. Trust me on this one. Just don’t.
Steve - USA
October 5th, 2011
3:16 pm
getalife – Sorry…..got my posts confused, I retract the question.
getalife
October 5th, 2011
3:17 pm
“Psssst. Don’t. Trust me on this one. Just don’t.”
Good advice because I will make you look silly.
Do the Kochroach Krawl
October 5th, 2011
3:19 pm
Yeah!
md
October 5th, 2011
3:20 pm
“Seems to me it ought to be a nontopic.”
Golf clap for you…………
AmVet
October 5th, 2011
3:20 pm
Mick, vindication against the would-be Medicare destroyers and Social Security stealers in the corporate owned and run GOP?
Paul
October 5th, 2011
3:21 pm
Joe Mama
“Neither is polygamy, but some LDS still practice it.”
That statement illustrates (this is nicely said) why I said most here are not equipped to handle any indepth discussion, in context, of a faith with which they are not familiar.
No LDS practice polygamy. It’s automatic excommunication. They may call themselves some variant of ‘LDS” but they are definitely NOT LDS.
Y’know, someone just may have asked Lieberman that. Nothing would surprise me when it comes to boorish behavior by the media.
I rather like the “by their fruits you shall know them” test. And by and large, I’ve found them to be a pretty charitable and good group of people. Heck, the fact we can have one LDS guy running for president and another LDS guy running the Senate, and have them on polar opposites of the political divide, is pretty indicative they have a pretty large tent when it comes to political views. Which is what I’m most interested in.
HDB
October 5th, 2011
3:22 pm
Good little liberal
October 5th, 2011
3:12 pm
“But why is someone knocking on your door more important than the obvious problems that this administration has refused to do anything about.”
1) This Administration HAS attempted to work on the myriad of issues, but I’ve seen countless OBSTRUCTION by those who call themselves “Americans”…but persist in kowtowing to a Republican orthodoxy!!
2) “Knocking on my door” in the figurative sense means – holding town hall meetings in my community to present your side of the issue; “knocking on my door” means holding campaign rallies in my community to present your view of the issues! Republicans hold their rallies in Gwinnett…Cobb….but why not in Adamsville, Collier Heights, Vine City?? Are Republicans so afraid that their persistent ignoring of a constituency leaves them open to the character questions they ALWAYS use against Democrats???
Wise man said: I’m from Missouri — SHOW ME!!
getalife
October 5th, 2011
3:23 pm
We should thank the tea party for the new movement of the majority of the American people to be heard too.
If the dems do not listen, the majority will fire them.
Might need to start a new party so the majority of the American people are represented if the dems do not listen.
Their approval is at a all time low so now is the time for real, bold, and courageous change.
Joe Mama
October 5th, 2011
3:23 pm
GLL — “They still weren’t as bad as they are now.”
True, but voters *then* couldn’t possibly have known what unemployment would be like *today.* Come now.
“They are about the same as far as corrections as the other cable channels. I know that’s not what you want to hear, but its true. Cable News is a hard thing. A lot of misses and near misses.”
I have friends over at CNN and have since the mid-80s. Given what I hear from them, I don’t think that Fox corrects itself anywhere *near* as much as other cable outlets.
“Alcohol. But seriously, by 2006, the “rightness” of FOX had inspired the more “leftness” of the others. It is the reason for the discourse that we are seeing now. I hate it. If I had the money, I would start a News channel that would really be fair and make a huge point of promoting even-handedness. But I’m afraid that it would end up like Turner’s Good News show that he ran on Saturday (maybe Sunday, I don’t remember) mornings. It was boring as hell.”
I remember that. I agree; it sucked @$$.
“I lived in both the inner city and the burbs and the inner city is much harder left. They are not going to vote for a Republican. They may not vote at all, but they won’t vote right.”
Okay. Fair enough. Thank you for clarifying.
“I’m not defending waterboarding, but I am making the comparisons to Obama subjecting people to real torture and burning to death.”
I’d appreciate it if you’d be more *explicit* in your condemnation of waterboarding, because you do seem to be defending it — even if you don’t mean to.
“But that eliminates the argument for Obama that he used so brilliantly in 2008.”
Well, I’ve told you before that I disagree with Obama on a number of things. Here’s one of them.
“I know that. My Dad was at Iwo and I read about WWII most of my life. I’ve always wanted to go to Japan. Dad would be spinning in his grave.”
It’s worth the trip, IMO. If you go, try to eat like a local. If you insist on eating Western-style food, you’ll burn a hole in your wallet. But the Japanese will LOVE you for trying their food and will eagerly help you pick things out from the menu and will happily teach you to use ohashi (chopsticks). IMO, the Japanese are the world’s best hosts, and they will treat you like your grandparents treated you when you were little. I don’t think you’ll be sorry for going. Well, maybe your wallet will be sorry. But I think *you* will enjoy it.
“Again, this takes away a hammer for the Democrats”
I agree. This is another point where I disagree with President Obama.
Frankly, I think you’ll find that a LOT of us are angry at the President for continuing Bush’s war-related policies. We’re angry that he’s done it and angry that he’s ceded a lot of the moral high ground in so doing.
“I’m not justifying the wars. That’s another discussion. I’m just stating that it is another one of those things that helped Obama before but is now gone.”
Okay. Thanks for clarifying.
“We disagree? DAMNIT!!!”
(giggling)
“Man, if I don’t get to work, I’ll be back in Atlanta living under a bridge. Have a good one. It’s been a true pleasure.”
Right back at you. Politeness begets politeness, and I thank you for yours.
Good little liberal
October 5th, 2011
3:23 pm
Steve – USA
LOL!1
It’s not hard to figure out. Just look back through a few blogs. I’ve told this story before:
When I was in middle school there was this poor guy that was . . . challenged. he picked fights with everybody, but do not be the guy who was known for beating up Shamus. The poor guy is in his late fifties now and rides around town on a bicycle.
Understand?
I’m not saying that getalife is challenged, but . . . well, you know.
1811/0311
October 5th, 2011
3:23 pm
Granny:
Thank you ma’am.
Paul
October 5th, 2011
3:23 pm
Joe Mama
Sorry – make that ‘two LDS guys running for president”
Keep Up the Good Fight!
October 5th, 2011
3:25 pm
The poor guy is in his late fifties now
hmmmm…why I bet that Shamus claims to be 57 as of last April
1811/0311
October 5th, 2011
3:26 pm
Stonethower:
A couple of points:
1) I “really” don’t care if you didn’t serve back then as there wasn’t room for everyone anyway.
2) If you had a legitimate exemption (low draft number, etc.) so be it.
3) I take exception with those that fraudulently did something to keep out (Bill Clinton).
4) As I have said many times re: Bush ……………. you were in more danger for this country just learning to fly a fighter aircraft (even for the Guard) than most MOS’s in Nam (excluding infantry of course).
1811/0311
October 5th, 2011
3:26 pm
getalife:
Quit eating those green apples ……….. my grandma always told me you’ll get worms.
Paul
October 5th, 2011
3:27 pm
Keep Up
BTW – that was a great crack about “Russians gave a 10!” earlier -
AmVet
October 5th, 2011
3:27 pm
getalife, what a hoot, huh?
Reminds me of Jay’s response to one of the dingalings recently, about the dingaling question not being difficult, just stupid and offensive…
The Leg Lamp is a "major award".....
October 5th, 2011
3:27 pm
More news of the unsinkable U.S.S. Obamic:
ANY REPUBLICAN 47% OBAMA 41%
Sept Layoffs Highest in 2 Years…
115,730 job cuts last month, more than double August’s 51,114…
Issa to Holder: Admit you knew…
Holder changes story about ATF gun-running op…
DoJ quietly demotes ATF officials involved in Fast and Furious…
White House screams, swears at reporter for covering scandal…
Michelle Obama’s Africa Vacation Cost More Than $432,142 — for flights alone…
Daughters listed as ’senior staff’…
Vice President Biden: ‘Who’s Van Jones?’
‘Green jobs’ farm sheds jobs after receiving $200M in stimulus funds…
Obama Campaign Says GOP Blocking Jobs Bill — After Reid Blocks Jobs Bill!
Dems scramble to rewrite Obama bill…
POLL: Opposition to Obama grows — and hardens…
Dems unite — against Obama…
DNC Chair: ‘Anyone’ Can See Economy’s Improving…
SOLYNDRA e-mails: Obama admin was poised to approve another loan of $469 million…
Trotsky Foxtrot
October 5th, 2011
3:28 pm
Richard Wolff at The Guardian:
Capitalism is the problem – and the joblessness, homelessness, insecurity, and austerity it now imposes everywhere are the costs we bear. We have the people, the skills and the tools to produce the goods and services needed for a just society to prosper. We just need to reorganise our producing units differently, to go beyond a capitalist economic system that no longer serves our needs.
Humanity learned to do without kings and emperors and slave masters. We found our way to a democratic alternative, however partial and unfinished the democratic project remains. We can now take the next step to realise that democratic project. We can bring democracy to our enterprises – by transforming them into cooperatives owned, operated and governed by democratic assemblies composed of all who work in them and all the residents of the communities who are interdependent with them.
Paul
October 5th, 2011
3:29 pm
Scout
Being a Rhodes scholar is doing something fraudulent?
I gathered from Recon this morning that Marines are assassins. Maybe these people just didn’t want to be associated with that? (grin)
Kamchak
October 5th, 2011
3:29 pm
Paul
There are Evangelicals and Jews and Catholics and all manner of other people in other faiths who believe nondoctrinal stuff but that doesn’t mean anyone should take that as representative.
Reminds me of an incident from my youth.
A certain book written by a prominent evangelical had been circulating through my mom’s Sunday School class, and my mom was looking forward to reading it. It finally got to be her turn to borrow the book and after Sunday School she brought the book with her to the service.
The book was about the practice of speaking in tongues.
Sure enough, the sermon that day was about how speaking in tongues was indicative of demon possession.
Not what the book had to say about the practice.
Needless to say, mom was more than a little self conscious about toting that book around that day.
I guess the moral of that story is that “nondoctrinal stuff” changes daily, and that my mom, when confronted by group dynamics, was fully capable of changing her “doctrine.”
Keep Up the Good Fight!
October 5th, 2011
3:29 pm
Thanks Paul…
stands for decibels
October 5th, 2011
3:31 pm
Paul, methinks perhaps you’re reading a tad much into a light-hearted nickname I gave Romney, but otherwise you’ve got a fair point.
Henceforth, my only knock at his expense regarding garb he may or may not don will be when I call him “Mittens.”
(oh, and he’s still lying about Planned Parenthood, by any reasonable reading of his statement I posted @ 2.13.)
Paul
October 5th, 2011
3:33 pm
Kamchak
That does well illustrate how some ‘This is today’s shiny new toy of emphasis’ changes with the times.
I was listening to some group discussing the Romney/LDS issue and someone on the panel said “weird is all about who is looking at whom. I mean, mainstream Christians actually believe some guy rose from the dead! How weird is that?”
I’m a live and let live kinda guy -
Mighty Righty
October 5th, 2011
3:34 pm
Congressman: Obama administration may be guilty of accessorie to murder.
http://dailycaller.com/2011/10/05/congressman-obama-admin-may-be-accessory-to-murder-with-fast-and-furious/
stands for decibels
October 5th, 2011
3:34 pm
ANY REPUBLICAN 47% OBAMA 41%
any?
So far I don’t see any actual matchups beating the incumbent by more than the margin of error, in any poll. And as for the people with actual skin in the game at this point, they only give Mittens a 27% shot…
http://www.intrade.com/v4/markets/contract/?contractId=743475
and Rick Perry’s sinkin’ like a stone, down to 9.3% at last look
http://www.intrade.com/v4/markets/contract/?contractId=749989
(they’ve got Cain wayyy up to… 3.2% probable nowadays.)
Armed Liberal
October 5th, 2011
3:38 pm
Leg Lamp – For the love of all that is holy, please don’t spew Drudge all over us anymore.
Paul
October 5th, 2011
3:38 pm
afternoon, sfd
I purposely did not refer to any names – I did not think you would say something like that in a mean way, but I could sure see some of our other bloggers picking up on it (I won’t even try to get into what goes thru Redneck’s mind).
Mittens – I’ve no idea what that means, but thought it sounded rather cute. I hear that I get an image of the cat in pirate garb from Puss N Boots.
Just shows you what hanging around this blog does to one’s thought process, eh?
1811/0311
October 5th, 2011
3:39 pm
Paul:
Seriously, you obviously don’t know the history of how Clinton avoided the draft. It’s not as simple as being in college as a deferrment.
Here it is if you have the integrity to read it:
http://www.1stcavmedic.com/bill-clinton-draft.htm