Health-care costs soar at an unsustainable pace
Health-care cost trends in this country are unsustainable and are driving a whole range of major challenges, from our growing federal and state budget problems to the competitiveness of U.S. business in international markets to the decline in the economic power of the middle and working classes.
Take a look. The first chart, below, comes from a Kaiser Foundation report just released today. It found that health-insurance premiums had risen 113 percent between 2001 and 2011, and worker contributions to health insurance had risen by 131 percent. Family health-insurance premiums rose by 9 percent alone in 2011.
The second chart, based on the most recent data from the 34-nation Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development, documents the disadvantage this country faces internationally. We do not, by most measures, have the world’s greatest health-care system, but we undoubtedly have the most expensive. These trends constitute a major “tax” on our nation’s productivity, competitiveness and quality of life.
Chart by Jay Bookman, AJC
The countries listed above are representative of trends in most of the OECD. They manage to provide health care to their elderly and their poor, and do so at much cheaper cost. What do they know that we don’t? Are we so handcuffed by jingoism and inertia — an inertia compounded by those who profit quite nicely from the current system, and want no change — that we are incapable of responding?
– Jay Bookman
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320 comments Add your comment
stands for decibels
September 28th, 2011
2:35 pm
I want to know how big of a let down obama is to all you who were engulfed by his mysticism in the 2008 campaign
Well, you’ll have to find someone who was “engulfed” who can answer that, then.
Mick
September 28th, 2011
2:37 pm
gll
I’m just hoping by practicing proper diet, exercise, and clean living that my body just needs the occassional tune-up as opposed to the dreaded overhaul…
Talking Head
September 28th, 2011
2:37 pm
the left is in complete denial about obama…which is great for the country!
stands for decibels
September 28th, 2011
2:37 pm
Still pretending that you are on a real island. LOL!! Any island that you can drive to is not exactly Jamaica.
true, but 1) St. Simons is actually surrounded by water, and 2) I’m sure there’ve got to be at least a coupla people there who can do a passable cover of “no woman, no cry”.
Good little liberal
September 28th, 2011
2:38 pm
Talking Head
You mean that this didn’t happen?
I am absolutely certain that generations from now, we will be able to look back and tell our children that this was the moment when we began to provide care for the sick and good jobs to the jobless; this was the moment when the rise of the oceans began to slow and our planet began to heal; this was the moment when we ended a war and secured our nation and restored our image as the last, best hope on earth. This was the moment—this was the time—when we came together to remake this great nation so that it may always reflect our very best selves and our highest ideals.
Barrack Obama,
Steve - USA
September 28th, 2011
2:38 pm
Paul@2:30
Yes. You are correct, but if we are talking about rising health costs it is interesting to examine why another country that has a model we want to emulate has a greater increase than our own.
I am just saying it would be interesting to find out why Britian’s is rising so fast.
Knowledge is good, right?
Talking Head
September 28th, 2011
2:39 pm
still waitin on that obama cash, from his stash
notice how i left of the ‘g’ in ‘waitin’…just like obama!
Good little liberal
September 28th, 2011
2:39 pm
Mick
Me too. I’ve been trying to get back in shape, but it is so hard when you get older.
Mick
September 28th, 2011
2:39 pm
head
The right is in complete denial about obama. Remember, congress makes laws? What happened to all those jobs the repubs promised when they were handed the house in an off presidential election year?
Obama 2012
September 28th, 2011
2:40 pm
I, absolutely, positively, unequivocally cannot wait to bear witness to the collective apoplexy that will engulf the conservative establishment upon Obama’s reëlection. I have no doubt that it will fill me with pure, unadulterated glee. Oh, the joys!!!!
stands for decibels
September 28th, 2011
2:41 pm
just hoping by practicing proper diet, exercise, and clean living that my body just needs the occassional tune-up as opposed to the dreaded overhaul
that’s smart (and an approach I take as well) but life has a way of intruding with weird, unforseen stuff.
Years back I was hospitalized for more than a week with a condition, and I remember specifically asking my specialist, “what could I have done, or not done, to prevent this?” and he just shrugged his shoulders.
It’s all well and good for people to piously preach about making good choices–and yeah, people should; frinstance, do you really need to eat fast food? Couldn’t you just prepare sometime simple at home for the same cost and in less time? and so on–but you can’t prevent *every* expensive outcome.
Talking Head
September 28th, 2011
2:42 pm
Mick,
2 things.
1.) What about all those jobs promised when Obama was elected with 2 years of both House and Senate majorities?
2.) Unfortunately, the Senate is currently controlled by the dems…
Mighty Righty
September 28th, 2011
2:43 pm
ODD OWL
September 28th, 2011
2:14 pm
“OBAMACARE IS BEGINNING TO LOOK BETTER AND BETTER… The only way President Obama can rein in this exploding health care cost is by adding a public option to Obamacare. The best option is to have a single payer. The best single payer is the Federal Government. National health insurance must be an entitlement program just like social security.”
Obama care went up in cost 115 billion the first three months after it was passed and it hadn’t even been implemented yet!
Mick
September 28th, 2011
2:43 pm
gll
Right you are, it’s a battle but a lifestyle choice also. When I do my routine I picture all my organs getting happy that I’m increasing my blood flow to them. A good diet is the harder part – I loves good food…
Good little liberal
September 28th, 2011
2:43 pm
stands for decibels
Actually some good players on St. Simons and the area is very nice (as long as you wear mosquito repellant) I always liked Brunswick. But it is what it is, basically an Island like Manhattan is an island.
I always get a kick out of Island time pretending he is living on Nevis or Green Turtle Cay.
Strawman
September 28th, 2011
2:45 pm
“People — two things, first, government spending does not equal socialism, and two, in a single payer system, the government only PAYS, the workers are not government employees.”
Whomever is paying is also calling the shots and I, for one, have some trepidation about this government calling the shots.
Good little liberal
September 28th, 2011
2:46 pm
Mick
My problem is that I like bad food. And I don’t have a pool here. There’s just not enough level land to put one in (if I could afford it) and I was always able to keep the shape by swimming. There’s a nice Y here, but I just dread having to go through the routine.
Mick
September 28th, 2011
2:47 pm
head
Let’s get real, historic number of filibusters, over 200 I think. The stimulus helped from things getting worse. Now we could’ve taken the repub route a la hoover and done nothing, except that got us 25% unemployment and hoovervilles. What’s your beef? Admit it, you just dislike obama – no matter what he does including getting bin laden…
Mick
September 28th, 2011
2:48 pm
gll
Buy yourself a decent bike and put in about 45 mins a day, you will feel better and your stress level will decrease..
Bosch
September 28th, 2011
2:49 pm
“Whomever is paying is also calling the shots”
Exactly. When you have one customer, they get to decide how much to pay.
AmVet
September 28th, 2011
2:49 pm
Mick, physical fitness is not just a hobby for me.
I am convinced that it saved my life.
Six years ago I had massive blood clots in my lungs, as well as one that traveled through the hole in my heart (?!) and lodged in the main *artery* of my right arm. (clots start in the venal system)
It is arguably a miracle that I even survived.
But because I was in the best shape of my life (I had been training relentlessly for several years in preparation for the Georgia Senior Olympics), I went from six days in the ICU (including two major operations) to less than 24 hours in a regular hospital room to being discharged.
I doubt the average, overweight, couch potato, 50 year old would have ever left that hospital alive.
And why i still exercise regularly…
Mighty Righty
September 28th, 2011
2:49 pm
Mick
I don’t remember Republicans promising jobs. You will have to find something on that. I do remember Republicans promising to rein in spending which they have done. Liberals are still screaming about that. The job promise that I remember was by the president both before and after his election. “He was to focus like a laser.” But he has a short attention span.
Talking Head
September 28th, 2011
2:50 pm
Mick,
Looking back retrospectively, the Stimulus didn’t help anything. The situation has gotten worse by repeating the same playbook of failed Keynesian economic policies of FDR’s New Deal.
Admit it, you’re in denial of a lost cause.
stands for decibels
September 28th, 2011
2:50 pm
I always get a kick out of Island time pretending he is living on Nevis or Green Turtle Cay.
Oh, I do too–I figure he’s having a good time pulling some people’s legs.
Mick
September 28th, 2011
2:53 pm
amvet
I agree, the average person my age looks terrible and drinks too much beer. Me and alcohol never got along and I’m thankful for that. I’m going to get the diet part correct, it’s tough but that’s my goal…
Good little liberal
September 28th, 2011
2:54 pm
Mick
I have a nice Raleigh that will go like the wind, but there aren’t many places to ride up here unless you have a mountain bike. Up behind my house is a road that goes across the mountain and it is like Six Flags Over Hell going down the other side. And if you miss a turn its a looooong way to the bottom. But man, pulling that hill to get up there is a real bear.
I did it a few weeks ago and i could hardly walk for two days. I hate young people with their hair and their youth.
Strawman
September 28th, 2011
2:55 pm
“Exactly. When you have one customer, they get to decide how much to pay.”
Exactly…and for WHAT, WHEN, WHERE and HOW. You left out one part of the equation.
Obama 2012
September 28th, 2011
2:55 pm
mighty righty – republicans didn’t just promise jobs – it was a centerpiece of their campaign against the dems. until it wasn’t.
Joe Mama
September 28th, 2011
2:56 pm
Stands — “Years back I was hospitalized for more than a week with a condition, and I remember specifically asking my specialist, “what could I have done, or not done, to prevent this?” and he just shrugged his shoulders.”
Same here. In my case, it’s not one condition but *two,* and both were autosomal recessive genetic conditions — meaning there was no way to tell that I had them short of genetic testing (which didn’t exist until I was an adult and which is still iffy on one of them) and no way at all to tell if they’d ever assert themselves. For all I know, there could be other freaky Star Trek diseases lurking in my DNA.
In both cases, my physicians told me that medicine has no idea to this day what causes either of the conditions I have to ‘wake up’ and start making nuisances of themselves.
Mick
September 28th, 2011
2:56 pm
head
Another revisionist historian? Slamming roosevelt, give me a break, that man saved this country, you just don’t like him because the doesn’t have an r next to his name…
Bosch
September 28th, 2011
2:57 pm
Strawman,
Meh…you’re just paranoid.
AmVet
September 28th, 2011
2:58 pm
You can do it, Mick.
And anything worth truly having is usually not going to be easy to get.
I love beer and good food! (Who doesn’t?!)
But I’ve taught myself how to eat to live rather than live to eat.
I doubt i could have done it on my own. That is why I’ve once again paid to have a trainer abuse me a great deal! I’ve also gotten the help of a nutritionist and in the past year, I’ve dropped 25 pounds.
BTW, the best line I ever heard in the gym?
That pain that you feel by pushing yourself really hard?
That is the feeling of weakness leaving your body!
carlosgvv
September 28th, 2011
2:59 pm
What do they know that we don’t? Apparently, they know not to have a money driven politicial system where big special interests can buy their politicians and get the green light to gouge the public as much as possible. Our lawmakers are the only ones who can change our current medical care system to one like the European model and, as long as they are bought and paid for by the medical industry, that will never happen.
Strawman
September 28th, 2011
2:59 pm
“Slamming roosevelt, give me a break, that man saved this country, you just don’t like him because the doesn’t have an r next to his name…”
Saved it how (that another person could not have done as well)? The Great Depression ended with our involvement in WWII, some 12 years after Black Friday.
Good little liberal
September 28th, 2011
2:59 pm
stands for decibels
I could stand a little island time right now. Maybe Cozumel, a little bar and a big Margarita.
Paul
September 28th, 2011
2:59 pm
Steve
As Bosch pointed out, ’single payer’ is not socialized. England is socialized. Canada is single-payer and has a lower rate of growth.
Strawman
September 28th, 2011
3:01 pm
“Meh…you’re just paranoid.”
Perhaps you are right. Perhaps I should watch more Peter Sellers films.
Mick
September 28th, 2011
3:02 pm
amvet
Best shape of my life was after boot camp – lean, mean, fighting, puddle jumper. They had the right formula, three square meals, no snacks, marching and plenty of pt!
Paul
September 28th, 2011
3:03 pm
Joe Mama
“In both cases, my physicians told me that medicine has no idea to this day what causes either of the conditions I have to ‘wake up’ and start making nuisances of themselves.”
Horse puckies!
Somewhere, sometime, you made a choice. Genes, schmenes. That’s just doubletalk for people who don’t want to take responsibility for their choices!!!!
//sarc//
now… back to work….
Joe Mama
September 28th, 2011
3:04 pm
GLL — “My problem is that I like bad food.”
You can make little bitty changes over time that will add up.
My wife and I made a decision *years* ago to reduce our sodium intake. We started by throwing out the salt shaker (to this day there isn’t one in our house) and using *only* salt substitute if we wanted salt on our food (we don’t any more).
We also cut way back on fried foods. Now we only have fried items occasionally, perhaps once a week at most. I do love bacon, but I don’t allow myself to have it more than once a month. Meat for breakfast? Turkey bacon or turkey sausage — preferably the microwavable kind.
I’m not able to do this any more for medical reasons, but we started out with one meatless meal a week and got up to three before I got sick. It’s pretty easy to do — just start out with oatmeal, toast or a muffin for breakfast once a week and skip the bacon and eggs. Then add on one meatless lunch a week; maybe a healthy and substantial salad with beans for protein and lowfat cheese for calcium. I like jalapenos on mine, and they’re loaded with Vitamin C. Then try adding one meatless supper a week — maybe a pasta primavera with roasted veggies instead of meat in the sauce.
It’s really not hard to do, and our cholesterol levels dropped like a couple of rocks. Mine’s been 150-160 for *years,* and I think it’s because of the dietary changes we made.
Mick
September 28th, 2011
3:04 pm
straw
The wpa, ccc, even your beloved south revered roosevelt because he put people back to work. He was elected four times, does that mean anything to you?
Good little liberal
September 28th, 2011
3:06 pm
Mick
Best shape of my life was right after my divorce, around 2000. I had a big nice house with an indoor pool, my own weight room and a hot girlfriend that was way too young. She didn’t mind speaking up if I started getting out of shape. Now THAT was motivation.
Mighty Righty
September 28th, 2011
3:07 pm
Obama 2012
September 28th, 2011
2:55 pm
Sorry. You are wrong.
Mick
September 28th, 2011
3:07 pm
gll@3:06
Cool man, I can dig that!
AmVet
September 28th, 2011
3:07 pm
Mick, what a hoot.
I too was one badass teenager in boot camp.
But that was just good genes and from working my ___ off on the farm.
It’s kind of hard to believe, but back then it was rare to see a lardass. Much less colonies of them.
Now? Holy cow! It’s out of control.
The legacy of corproate exploitation of kids, bad parenting and mamby pamby schools with no PE…
md
September 28th, 2011
3:09 pm
Is interesting to note that while those other 3 on the chart are lower, they don’t appear to be doing much better containing the rising costs…………at that rate, they all look unsustainable.
Recon (2nd.and 3rd.)
September 28th, 2011
3:11 pm
O.T Appears we have several Solyndra’s.
http://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/2011/09/28/government-bank-financing-more-solyndras/
St Simons - we're on Island time
September 28th, 2011
3:12 pm
retired CPA from Atlanta ……..mon
havin a lotta fun, yessir
Gordon
September 28th, 2011
3:13 pm
It’s so easy to find a website to support a given position as Jay did at 12:01. Here’s one that goes the other way. If Medicare wasn’t unsustainable and so full of waste, fraud, and abuse (Obama’s own words, to the tune of $500B per year), then more people might be enthusiastic. You can’t keep failing and expect people to give you more power.
http://thenationalscene.com/10-reasons-favor-american-health-care-countries/
Good little liberal
September 28th, 2011
3:13 pm
Joe Mama
Breakfast isn’t a problem. Its always skim milk over cereal like Shredded wheat or raisin bran. No bread, a few chunks of watermelon if I can get it. BTW. The thing I miss about georgia more than anything else is the watermelon, especially this time of year. Up here, they have no taste. The tomatoes up here are heavenly, but melons just don’t make it.
Lunch is usually a great grilled chicken salad at a friends deli, but then I go home. I’m beat, don’t want to cook and I will set and eat a bag of chips and dip for dinner. Sometimes I will eat one of those oriental meals that you nuke, but all of that is salty as hell.
If I wasn’t too lazy to cook and if I got off my arse during the day, I could do this. Hopefully, with the weather getting cooler I will start riding more and eating less.
md
September 28th, 2011
3:14 pm
Did somebody say choices??
Although in jest, I have several in the family that are regretting quite a few of those “non chosen” choices.
Amazing what the long term affects are of alcohol and tobacco………..those new pictures they are going to put on the box pales in comparison to what I get to see……………….
Good thing folks don’t choose to do that to themselves……….
Uh huh…………
Beavis
September 28th, 2011
3:15 pm
It’s the corporate drug pushers man … and all those mammygrams. They’re driving up the cost of health care.
Paul
September 28th, 2011
3:15 pm
md
But…. if you start out with one (us) with baseline spending of twice GDP what the others start out with, it makes it all the worse for us.
Paul
September 28th, 2011
3:20 pm
Gordon
I scanned his paper, one would think a senior fellow would be familiar with this little think called a citation. Or source. Or bookmark.
But then again, it is the Hoover Institution. Weren’t they the outfit that vetted Rep Ryan’s debt plan? The one that used creative analysis they pulled from their sight and who conditioned success on an unemployment rate we haven’t seen in 50 years?
buck@gon
September 28th, 2011
3:21 pm
Jay,
Take a look.
No, take a breath and stop writing such laughable nonsense! Close your eyes and pretend that the President didn’t already “do something” about healthcare. Really, this is comedy theater today!
Family health-insurance premiums rose by 9 percent alone in 2011.
“Are we so handcuffed by jingoism and inertia — an inertia compounded by those who profit quite nicely from the current system, and want no change — that we are incapable of responding?”
My goodness, the much abused grand old tradition of muckraking. You’re no Upton Sinclair, your readership and population aren’t helpless and stupid, Obama is President, and he already was “capable of responding”–oh, and “jingoism” is just so five-minutes-ago, ….dude. Comparing our country to other countries is no way to offer a solution when solutions are plenty, available and obvious for anyone to see.
Honestly! “jingoism and inertia”: a bit and blatant journalistic hissy fit.
Get out your pillow, Jay and call your therapist, and thank the Cox family that you have healthcare coverage to pay her.
Perhaps it would take the elimination of all emotional looney-leftist journalistic whining before we would get a Democrat Congress that can pass budgets and pass bills AFTER they’ve read them and know what’s in them!
Maybe it’s the government that’s full of “jingoism and inertia” and is incapable of spending less.
Do you read these posts you write? This is like carving up Thanksgiving turkey!
Bosch
September 28th, 2011
3:27 pm
Paul,
Did you check out all those sponsors on Gordo’s site? “Young People for Liberty” or something like that. Names like that always bother me, like, do you really have to say you love freedom and liberty? I mean, isn’t that like the same thing as saying you love oxygen?
It’s like they are taking a position that they are for it, so therefore there must be those against it.
How stupid.
Jay
September 28th, 2011
3:27 pm
“This is like carving up Thanksgiving turkey!
With a very VERY dull knife. As in not the sharpest one in the drawer.
You do realize, Buck, that you said exactly NOTHING in all that?
Paul
September 28th, 2011
3:27 pm
buck
For all that, you did not refute anything he wrote. Nor did you post a counterargument.
Paul
September 28th, 2011
3:28 pm
Bosch
Well, if it makes them feel good. I mean, conservatives are all about feelings, right?
AmVet
September 28th, 2011
3:30 pm
By the time I had drafted this, two others had already addressed the laughable situation
But what the hell.
buck, another brilliant substance free post.
Do you ever actually ever add anything informative or useful to these discussions with facts, figures, data, evidence, quotes and links?
I am not sure I have ever seen you do so.
Just insults and allusions to solutions.
But where pray tell are your “plenty, available and obvious solutions”?
Dude.
ragnar danneskjold
September 28th, 2011
3:32 pm
Dear hank @ 1:40, thanks, but I write to the level of my audience, the Bookman blog. Seriously, my eyes are too weak for my computer.
Joe Mama
September 28th, 2011
3:35 pm
GLL — “then I go home. I’m beat, don’t want to cook and I will set and eat a bag of chips and dip for dinner. Sometimes I will eat one of those oriental meals that you nuke, but all of that is salty as hell.”
Make stuff in advance. Or, if you crave easy, look for stuff that’s healthier for you. Thaw a small shrimp ring in the fridge before you go to bed. Depending on how cold your fridge is, it should be edible for supper the next night, and shrimp is loaded with minerals and *good* cholesterol. Plus, it satisfies that MEAT craving guys have.
I never lost my college craving for ramen noodles, but I do them smart now. Buy the kinds where the noodles are baked before being dried and packaged (lower fat and cholesterol, but they cost a little more) and DON’T use the salty seasoning packet. I drain off the water and add dried herbs like tarragon, thyme, etc. Mrs. Dash makes good seasonings you can use for this. Need good lowfat meat in there? Shrimp, canned drained tuna (I like solid white), or surimi (imitation crab stick), kamaboko (fish cake) or seafood meatballs. You can find that sort of thing at Asian or international groceries.
Try the veggie burgers that say “flame grilled” or similar on the package. If you tart that burger up with some condiments, cheese and lettuce/onion/tomato, the flame grilled ones do a passable job of tasting like a beef burger. Don’t go for the freaky ones like brown rice burger or mushroom patty; those taste weird and will make you curse hippies.
Or make stuff in advance that you know is good tasting and good for you. Make up a large batch of something you like, then divide it into single-serving containers and freeze it. Move one into the fridge when you anticipate an ugly day at work; it will thaw partially during the work day.
You can eat better for you without a lot of effort, but it does take a while to learn what’s available and how to make it — as well as what you *like,* which is the most important thing. It doesn’t matter if something’s really good for you if it tastes like crap.
Paul
September 28th, 2011
3:36 pm
“But what the hell.”
As usual, was worth it.
AmVet, there’s a pattern in the posts we read. Some seem to honestly think blather counts for content, ridicule substitutes for fact.
And it all emanates from the same political genre.
no solution
September 28th, 2011
3:37 pm
Solutions any one, or are we just going to blame bush and obama? ‘Cause that will help.
There are no good solutions.
The free market no longer works:
* You can be dropped through no fault of your own
* Folks abuse it by going to an emergency room for primary care with no intention to pay
* Folks stupidly get caught without it, have an emergency and can’t pay
* The market is not free… governments dictate what/who must be covered if it doesn’t make sense
* It is (mostly) a transaction between and insurance company-provider or employer-insurance company… the patient is an after thought
* 5% of the patients use about 70% of the care dollars. The obese person in the last 5 years of life is the typical MO of these patients.
* Too many dollars spent in the last 6 months of life.
* etc, etc, etc
The single payer won’t work:
* less incentive for doctors to work harder for less money
* The U.S. is to expansive to give the person in Wyoming the same quality of care as the person in Boston, MA.
* Dumping 20% more patients without increasing the number of health care providers will fail
* Making the bottom 50% pay nothing for it. Just like in the rest of politics, when someone has “no skin in the game”, they tend to overutilize services without incurring any cost. Look what happened in Georgia when Medicaid tried to introduce a nominal copay of just two dollars.
* There is still the problem of the elderly and obese using twice as many health care dollars as the rest of the population combined.
* Our healtcare will be determined by the same folks who are dealing with SS, Medicare, and the budget. Good luck with that.
* etc, etc, etc.
In both cases, we have to find a way to deny healthcare to 300lb people, and let them die. Otherwise, neither system will work. This seems cruel, but it really is the crux of the health care crisis, and is expected to get worse.
In both cases, we still have to find a way to force families to let their 85 year old grandma die. Something like a “universal DNR” after age 80. It seems cruel, but it really is the crux of the health care problem.
A German poster made a point about universal healthcare in European countries…. Everyone in the country is close enough to any hospital or healthcare provider to make it work. The U.S. population is far too dispersed to provide “fair” coverage to everyone in the country, yet everyone has to pay the same (for those who have to pay at all). Why should someone in North Dakota… who has a job and pays the full amount for coverage yet doesn’t live within 50 miles of a hospital or have access to specialized care… pay to subsidize a welfare recipient in a major U.S. city with an entire array of specialists and care?
And the whole idea of “fair” coverage is bogus. Why should someone who exercises and eats healthy pay to subsidize someone who is obese, eats junk food and hasn’t exercised since recess in third grade? How is that fair?
This is a complex situation that is no one’s fault. There are no solutions. But forcing the top 50% of the taxpayers to foot the bill for the bottom half, and then stand in line behind those they are subsidizing is not a legitimate solution, and that is where we are headed.
Disgusted
September 28th, 2011
3:37 pm
You’re telling me the healthcare costs are soaring! Got a call from my wife’s primary care physician last week. That doctor wanted $250 to sign a form certifying my wife’s disability for battery-operated wheelchair purchase purposes. Even the rep. from the wheelchair vendor, who received the same news from the doctor’s office, was aghast. $250 to sign and mail a form?
Fortunately, there’s still choice, and this one won’t be my wife’s primary care physician for long. So go ahead and tell me how much better the commercial sector is in offering healthcae services.
Bhorsoft
September 28th, 2011
3:38 pm
Just another reason for a single payer system and for better negotiating powers with the pharma companies. A drug I have to take costs $38,000+ here in the United States, while the same drug in the U.K. costs $12,000. What makes the same drug cost $26k more here in the U.S.? I’m not paying that $38k, my insurance company is paying most of it – which helps keep the insurance rates inflated.
Paul
September 28th, 2011
3:39 pm
Joe Mama
Check in the oriental aisle for rice noodles. Come in several sizes, from angel hair-like to nearly linguini. Add your own broth, veggies and spices. Can get the sodium level down to zilch.
Gordon
September 28th, 2011
3:42 pm
Paul and Bosch,
If the two sites had reversed positions, Jay would have cited mine and I would have cited Jay’s. And you two would have found something to criticize about the site he is using now. I could find a hundred sites that make it seem like American health care is all that, and a hundred that think it is one of the worst in the world. It took me about 3 minutes to find that one.
The truth is we have problems in our healthcare system that need fixing, but it also has many great things about it as well. I just don’t believe the two options available to fixing it are do nothing or start a new behemoth entitlement program, especially since the ones we have now are in terrible shape.
buck@gon
September 28th, 2011
3:43 pm
Jay,
You really didn’t say anything either except to whine and complain about inequities! Wow, what a novel concept!
I’m well aware of your inability to recognize and respond to criticism directed against yourself, but you sprayed all the primary nonsense yourself. Your display was an awful mess all by itself, divorced, as usual from reality and what has happened. There’s no way I’m going to get in the middle of your own embarrassing prose.
You think we aren’t capable of responding? Given Obamacare passing sight unseen (and apparently uknown to you) I think that’s worth remarking about, don’t you? What do you want? Reforming Obamacare now? Repealing it, pretending it didn’t happen and do something else? I just think that it’s really really funny!
Wait, waitaminute. You probably can’t read these words I’m writing now, can you? Blah, blah, blah….didn’t say anything ….blah.
Thanks for reading this, anyway.
AmVet
September 28th, 2011
3:45 pm
Paul, it is illustrative that fact-free posts like that one are much more the rule than the exception.
To wit, I’d ask Righty to “clarify” his contention that the Republicans have reigned in spending, with some of those pesky facts and figures, but I suspect it would be utterly futile…
My eating tip of the day? Go as unprocessed as possible.
I have replaced ice cream with plain, no fat yogurt, some honey, some fresh strawberries, blueberries, etc, and some high quality granola (with chocolate bits!).
Yummy.
And less than 25% of the calories…
Fat Boy
September 28th, 2011
3:46 pm
Hey, no solution. Are you one of those weird repugnicans that want to set up “death boards” for fat and old people? I weigh 300 lbs, do not overeat, and don’t eat junk food. From a health standpoint, my cholesterol is excellent, BP is perfect and I’m in overall excellent health. I do have Multiple Sclerosis that prohibits me from exercising as much as I would like. I would love to walk, but can’t. My weight is hereditary, not because I’m a lazy pig. Before you are so quick to condemn us to death, put your keyster in our shoes for a bit.
Joe Mama
September 28th, 2011
3:47 pm
Paul — “Check in the oriental aisle for rice noodles. Come in several sizes, from angel hair-like to nearly linguini.”
There’s an international market near my house that has all that, plus rice noodle *wraps* for making spring rolls in any size up to that of a burrito. Way better selection than Whole Foods, plus better prices.
Jay
September 28th, 2011
3:48 pm
Thanks for proving my point yet again, Buck.
josef
September 28th, 2011
3:48 pm
GLL
Good, you’re here and I can get this off my plate of ill will..
I read your comments on Soros and na zi…anybody who goes repeating that cr*p is lower than a snake’s belly and has absolutely no moral decency whatsoever. And, Imam, censor this if you want to, but, GLL as far as I and anyone with even a modicum of moral integrity should feel, you can rot in hell…
Good, got that taken care of…
Paul
September 28th, 2011
3:52 pm
Gordon
“If the two sites had reversed positions, Jay would have cited mine and I would have cited Jay’s. And you two would have found something to criticize about the site he is using now”
Nope. I don’t support or reject out of hand based solely on source. I look at the material and how it’s supported. Or not. Over time, one gets an idea a source generally follows professional standards. Or no. Hoover Institution, in my opinion, is sorely lacking.
They may have people with professional backgrounds, they may pay them very well, but their analyses have often proven shoddy.
How is converting from what we have now to single-payer a massive new entitlement program?
buck 3:43
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvtDHH_IfP8#t=00m58s
Paul
September 28th, 2011
3:54 pm
Joe Mama
I love the ethnic stores. Lots more selection and lots better prices.
Paul
September 28th, 2011
3:55 pm
AmVet
I’m definitely going to try that (with granola I make myself). Ever tried Greek yogurt?
Bosch
September 28th, 2011
3:56 pm
Gordo,
Just stepped out for a brisk wall in the fine Fall air, but ditto what Paul wrote. No need to repeat.
But I will add, the problem I had with your site is it is just their word, no references, no studies, no nothing, but “this is what we believe.”
jm
September 28th, 2011
3:56 pm
http://www.dakotavoice.com/2009/08/bad-government-raises-health-care-costs/
Bosch
September 28th, 2011
3:57 pm
“with granola I make myself). Ever tried Greek yogurt?”
I make my own too, and Greek yogurt is way good.
I make Apollo and Starbuck’s dog food too — I’m seriously thinking about making it another business venture.
Peter
September 28th, 2011
3:58 pm
HA HA HA… wow is this silly or what !
We need to scrap ObamaCare which will lead to competition and that will prices just like buying cars.
I guess looking at the Graph is hard to do and understand !
Gordon
September 28th, 2011
4:01 pm
Paul,
Obamacare is a massively new entitlement program. It will grow (look at Medicare expected cost and its costs today, adjusted for inflation), expectations will change (see discussion yesterday on expectations of Social Security), become incredibly ineffiecient (Obama himself wants to help pay for Obamacare with $500B in waste,fraud, and abuse from Medicare), be subject to political whims (already there have been waivers). No thanks. I say take the existing system and start from there. Fix the biggest problems and work your way down. I am for the government regulating the private system, not single-payer.
Please give a conservative site you think usings “professional standards”, and why you think the Hoover Institution does not. You can start by stating which of the specific points in the site I provided you think are untrue.
Bosch
September 28th, 2011
4:03 pm
Paul,
RE: buckagon, I was thinking more like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxUbwteSWVk
jm
September 28th, 2011
4:05 pm
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-09-28/gas-tax-should-be-mile-fee-as-cars-evolve-commentary-by-james-m-whitty.html
Bosch
September 28th, 2011
4:06 pm
OMG, Paul, you have GOT to watch this, it was on the side of the page on that other video I posted — I think I’ve injured some internal organs laughing so hard:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6bmx-b4v7U&feature=related
Paul
September 28th, 2011
4:07 pm
Gordon
“Obamacare is a massively new entitlement program.”
We’ve gone from current system to single payer as a discussion point, now you’re skipping those two and moving on to Obamacare?
Can we please finish one topic before going to the default option – Obamacare?
Paul
September 28th, 2011
4:08 pm
Bosch
That was great!
I was going to ask ‘the noise or the visuals?’ but that would be mean, so I won’t ask that.
Peter
September 28th, 2011
4:11 pm
WOW Gordon……the Iraq WAR was a huge entitlement program as well….. so is the Nuclear plants going up here in Georgia.
So you have it one way, but don’t want it the other way….Funny stuff !
Paul
September 28th, 2011
4:14 pm
Bosch
I’m gonna have to join you in the emergency room…
Jay
September 28th, 2011
4:16 pm
Rick Perry sheets…
Strawman
September 28th, 2011
4:18 pm
“The wpa, ccc, even your beloved south revered roosevelt because he put people back to work.”
I’m a Yankee transplant. He put people back to work? The unemployment rate in 1940 was still at 15%. Don’t oversell the product if it is average at best.
“He was elected four times, does that mean anything to you?”
Yes. It is the reason for the 22nd amendment to our Constitution, limiting the president to two terms in office.
Scooter
September 28th, 2011
4:19 pm
“What do they know that we don’t?”
That medical professionals are simply wards of the state and should provide the citizenry with whatever the state deems prudent, at a price the state deems “fair”.
Of course I don’t agree with that because I don’t feel the majority has a right to the property (skills or wealth) of the minority.
Jay
September 28th, 2011
4:21 pm
Gordon, my problem with that column was its glaringly obvious cherry-picking of statistics. It reads like one of those car commercials: “Car X has more legroom than Car Y and more horsepower than Car Z and better gas mileage than Car P,” in each case picking out the competition’s weakest attribute.
It’s designed to disguise the fact that overall, Car X is a piece of crap. That column uses the same tactic.
Bosch
September 28th, 2011
4:22 pm
Paul,
I laughed so hard I slobbered….
Gordon
September 28th, 2011
4:23 pm
Paul,
“Single-payer health care is medical care funded from a single insurance pool, run by the state. Under a single-payer system, universal health care for an entire population can be financed from a pool to which many parties – employees, employers, and the state – have contributed. Single-payer is form of monopsony: a market in which one buyer faces many sellers; in all existing and proposed cases that buyer is the state.[citation needed]
Single-payer health insurance collects all medical fees, and then pays for all services, through a “single” government (or government-related) source.[1] In wealthy nations, this kind of publicly managed insurance is typically extended to all citizens and legal residents. Examples include Australia’s Medicare, Canada’s Medicare, the United Kingdom’s National Health Service, and Taiwan’s National Health Insurance. Medicare in the United States is an example of a single-payer system for a specified, limited group of persons.”
This is the definition of single-payer. It will be run by the government. As it states, Medicare (which we call an entitlement program) is an example of single-payer.
My argument is less against single-payer than it is the “throwing the baby out with the bathwater” approach used by many when it comes to this topic – as if our current system is simply a catostrophic mess. The site I produced, and MANY others (including a few I’m sure will meet your exacting requirements), give many examples of what is right about our current system. I’m tired of the lazy “let’s turn it over to the government and let God sort out the details” approach. The government doesn’t have a great track record in this area, or many areas, for that matter. I can see a greater government role in certain areas in a solution that attempts to combine the best of single-payer and the system we have now. What we have now has problems, but without a doubt a pure single payer system does as well. This has been well documented.
Bosch
September 28th, 2011
4:27 pm
“Medicare (which we call an entitlement program) is an example of single-payer”
And people love it, and if you tried to take it away, you’d see a full scale revolution.
Gordon
September 28th, 2011
4:32 pm
Jay,
Thanks for responding. I take your point, but statistics, cherry-picked or not, such as survival rates for common cancers, better access to treatment for chronic diseases, dramatic differences in wait times, and overvall satisfaction with healthcare seem pretty significant to me.
I won’t rehash my recent post to Paul, but in general my objection is the “either/or” approach taken by both sides on this issue (and many issues).
Gordon
September 28th, 2011
4:34 pm
Bosch,
Of course they love it. They get medical services without paying anywhere near the full cost. And it will be taken away, one way or the other, because it is unsustainable. They are revolting in Greece right now as well, but it won’t change a thing.
Jay
September 28th, 2011
4:35 pm
Gordon, I’d also point out that the Hoover piece contains no links or citations for the source of those statistics, which strikes me as odd coming from an alleged “think tank” associated with Stanford.
Joe Mama
September 28th, 2011
4:44 pm
Paul — “I love the ethnic stores. Lots more selection and lots better prices.”
It was so cool when I lived in Hawaii. I’d ask my local friends to take me to a market or restaurant and show me something new, and they always delivered. Imagine a couple dozen different kinds of bananas, not all yellow. Fruits and veggies I can’t hardly describe.
It was like the Dekalb Farmers Market turned up to 11.