The flat-out paranoia of the NRA and Wayne LaPierre
Wayne LaPierre, the executive vice president of the National Rifle Association, gave me a call at home the other day. In the taped message, my friend Wayne warned me that unless I and other patriotic Americans stepped forward to stop it, the dastardly United Nations, with Iran, China, North Korea and other evil countries behind it, would soon come into our country and into our very homes, strip the Second Amendment out of the Constitution and “take away every pistol, and rifle and shotgun” that we owned.
Riiiggghhht. I just have one question though:
How is the UN going to accomplish this? Are they going to import little bulbous-headed men from Mars toting rayguns to take away our weapons? If so, I’m clinging to my copy of Slim Whitman singing “Indian Love Call” and you can’t have it until you pry it from my cold, dead fingers. Nosireebob.
Look, I recognize that the boundary between serious and seriously crazy has shifted considerably in recent years. But doesn’t this kind of nonsense still qualify on the fully crazy side of the ledger?
The ostensible cause of LaPierre’s hysteria is something called the International Arms Trade Treaty. If ratified by the United Nations and then by the U.S. Senate, it would require countries exporting conventional arms to certify that the weapons aren’t being sent to a terrorist or organized crime group, such as Hezbollah, and that they aren’t being sent to a nation conducting genocide or to a nation under a U.N. arms embargo, such as Iran and North Korea.
It would have no effect whatsoever on domestic ownership, possession or purchase of firearms. Such a claim is politically, practically, legally and constitutionally absurd. So why is Wayne LaPierre calling me and others to pretend otherwise?
Money is part of the reason. The United States accounts for 40 percent of the world’s exports of conventional arms, and the U.S. arms industry is nervous about legislation that might curtail their right to sell arms to whomever they wish. Those manufacturers, not coincidentally, are also heavy donors to the NRA, which is trying to whip up hysteria on their behalf.
In addition, such hysteria is part of the NRA’s own strategy for raising money for its coffers. Once the LaPierre robo-rant about the UN finished, for example, an operator quickly came on line to ask me to donate money to the NRA. I politely declined.
Finally, it’s also a matter of increasingly delusional paranoia infecting the NRA. Prior to the ‘08 election, the gun group warned its members that Barack Obama had a secret 10-point plan to end gun ownership in this country.
Point One was a federal ban on the use of guns for home defense. Point Three was a ban on the sale, manufacture and possession of handguns. Point Four was the closure of 90 percent of American gunshops. Federal taxes on guns and ammunition were supposed to go up 500 percent, and the sale of ammunition for hunting rifles was supposed to be banned altogether.
As you may recall, that bit of hysteria touched off quite a spree of gun-buying after the election, boosting the profits of the NRA’s sponsors in the gun industry. In fact, as ammunition disappeared from store shelves, that itself was quickly cited as evidence that ammo confiscation was already underway. The NRA, in other words, played its own members for patsies.
Today, three years later, none of that has come to pass. Obama has made no effort whatsoever to alter the nation’s gun laws. So, given their hyperbolic claims, you might think that would make LaPierre and others a little embarrassed, right? It’s like when evangelist Harold Camping predicted that the world would end on May 21. When he woke up May 22, you just know he felt at least a wee bit sheepish about it, right?
Well, no. Camping did no such thing, because you see, Camping is crazy. Instead of apologizing, he announced that May 21 had merely been the day of spiritual judgment, and that God was really coming to destroy the universe on Oct. 21, 2011. And that’s exactly the course that LaPierre and the NRA are taking.
In a speech at a conservative conference in Florida this month, LaPierre explained that by taking no action to implement his alleged 10-point program, Obama had actually proved that the NRA had been right all along.
You see, “before the president was even sworn into office, they met and hatched a conspiracy of public deception to guarantee his re-election in 2012″ by just PRETENDING not to seize guns. The failure to act “is all part of a massive Obama conspiracy to deceive voters and hide his true intentions to destroy the Second Amendment.”
“We see the president’s strategy crystal clear. Get re-elected and, with no more elections to worry about, get busy dismantling and destroying our firearms freedom. Erase the Second Amendment from the Bill of Rights and exorcise it from the U.S. Constitution….
President Obama and his cohorts — yeah, they’re going to deny their conspiracy to fool gun owners. Some of the liberal media are probably already blogging about it. But we don’t care because as far as we’re concerned, that lying, conniving Obama crowd can kiss our Constitution!”
The fact that such people have considerable influence over our nation’s policies — for example, 45 senators have signed a letter condemning the arms trade treaty, including the two from Georgia — does not speak well of us.
– Jay Bookman
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603 comments Add your comment
Paul
September 27th, 2011
5:27 pm
Thulsa
“Religion” doesn’t refer to program success, but populace attitude.
Nor does it refer to the narrow perspective of college.
It’s pervasive. Which is why I asked if it’s similar in that regard in other states.
http://abcnews.go.com/Primetime/story?id=132425&page=1
josef
September 27th, 2011
5:27 pm
DDR
Ole Miss-Mississippi State game…best case for gun control at my folks’ annual revival!
Strawman
September 27th, 2011
5:28 pm
“That was a damn foolish and strange thing for Perdue to say.”
Oh, come on. No analysis of the implications of her proposal, no consideration of how it reflects on her party, no subtle deprecations – you know, the things you normally do when ripping a REPUBLICAN? And here I was, thinking you were likely to replace Alan Combs one day because you are so “fair and balanced”
Thulsa Doom
September 27th, 2011
5:29 pm
Debbiedoright,
The arrogance of Texas is what did them in. With the advent of the new Longhorn network it gave UTwest an added recruiting tool and put them at a tremendous disadvantage. And while I don’t remember the exact details of the deal I think that unlike other conferences where certain revenues were split Tejas had somewhat of a sweetheart deal even before the Longhorn network that other conference members resented. I don’t remember what it was but I think they got to keep their share of the pie in some revenue areas- it may have been their bowl money or tv appearances. Not sure but they had a financial advantage that ticked off other members.That was why Nebraska up and left.
Paul
September 27th, 2011
5:29 pm
N-GA
Nope. But they cherish American values. They respect the law. The advocate for what will benefit the country.
Which is why they can violate “Do Not Call.”
Because they’re serving a higher good.
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
DebbieDoRight
September 27th, 2011
5:31 pm
Paul: Where you are, does it also extend to high school?
Not to my knowledge no. It could, but since I haven’t any friends with high school aged kids, i’m not sure. I do however know that some of the parents here are NUTS about ANY sport. I coach a 9 and Under girls’ basketball team and some of the parents are a trip. I have to continually remind them that their daughter is NOT the next Sheryl Swoops and they should concentrate more on her SCHOOL education than her basketball education. Not every kid who can dribble a dang ball is the next phenom!
AMVet: My two cents about A&M joining the SEC? A great match. Kind of of a UGA West. Another school that has never really accomplished anything very notable in football, but thinks they’re some sort of perennial powerhouse.
Oooh AmVet!! You are a MEAN person!! UGA West? If I were you, I’d bob and weave for a few hours becasuse when those UGA fans come on they are going to be gunning for you!
NIght all!
jm
September 27th, 2011
5:32 pm
Another lesson in economics and taxes provided for Liberals:
BRK’s 2010 tax rate was 29.4%.
($5,607 million in taxes divided by $19,051 million in net income)
(page 33 of http://www.berkshirehathaway.com/2010ar/2010ar.pdf)
Dividend Cap Gains tax rate is 15%, applied to the remaining 70.6% of income after taxes is 10.6%.
29.4% plus 10.6% equals 40% even.
The top personal income tax rate is 35%.
40% is more than 35%.
If Buffett’s secretary was the best paid secretary in the world, she didn’t pay more taxes that Buffett did.
Happy I could help. Toodles.
Jefferson
September 27th, 2011
5:33 pm
The river is the line, you can’t be in the East if you are on the other side of the river. UGA is the new doormat of the SEC east, I mean how long has this slump been going on 3-4 years?
Guntrisha
September 27th, 2011
5:34 pm
“…for example, 45 senators have signed a letter condemning the arms trade treaty, including the two from Georgia — does not speak well of us.”
Actually Jay 57 senators, including 12 Democrats, are now on board against it. So it is DOA in the USA, regardless of how much you squeal.
Paulo977
September 27th, 2011
5:34 pm
“The United States accounts for 40 percent of the world’s exports of conventional arms, and the U.S. arms industry is nervous about legislation that might curtail their right to sell arms to whomever they wish. Those manufacturers, not coincidentally, are also heavy donors to the NRA, which is trying to whip up hysteria on their behalf”
Oh sure!!!
http://blogs.state.gov/index.php/site/entry/feltman_oped_middle_east
Thulsa Doom
September 27th, 2011
5:34 pm
Paul,
Still disagree. High school football is huge in Tejas and may in fact be bigger and more important to Texans than to Alabamians. But when it comes to college football Texas and their fans don’t hold a candle to Alabama-AU fans and it aint even close. The Tejas and A&M rivalry is pi$$ant league compared to the Bama-AU game. And Tejas and A&M will tolerate mediocre performance on the football field a lot longer than they will at Bama and AU. Just ask Tommy Tubberville who was out after one bad season. Mack Brown had a losing season last year and isn’t even near being on the hot seat. Tejas football is big. But it aint nothing compared to Bama-AU.
josef
September 27th, 2011
5:34 pm
my
@ 5:23
“DO you own a gun? I’m you’re Daddy taught you to use one…”
D*mn! Make that I’m SURE your Daddy…”
Why that one reads, I hope the hell he didn’t…I’d be in your sights…
Jefferson
September 27th, 2011
5:35 pm
NRA is just a gun toters union, as a matter of fact. Free to join and pay your dues.
USMC
September 27th, 2011
5:36 pm
The flat-out Naivete of the Left-wing Fringe and JAY BOOKMAN
Paul
September 27th, 2011
5:36 pm
Another lesson in economics and taxes provided for Conservatives:
BRK’s 2010 tax rate was 29.4%.
($5,607 million in taxes divided by $19,051 million in net income)
Divide it by net income. ‘Cause we don’t like the percent that results if we divide before deducting the millions in deductions we paid Congress to enact.
Strawman
September 27th, 2011
5:37 pm
“Actually Jay 57 senators, including 12 Democrats, are now on board against it. So it is DOA in the USA, regardless of how much you squeal.”
Doh. Was that a simple oversight (due to Jay’s worldview) or a calculated omission of fact? Do tell.
jm
September 27th, 2011
5:37 pm
Oh, and furthermore, if you want to include FICA and SECA tax rates (for SS & Medicare), those total 7.65%
The secretary’s effective tax rate is probably in the 10% range, so she probably pays a total of 17.65% of in taxes versus Buffett’s 40%.
BADA BING
September 27th, 2011
5:37 pm
Give money to Move On and the NRA/ Then you would have a group of armed, dead people registered to vote !
thewindwhistler
September 27th, 2011
5:38 pm
Wayne LaPierre should take his concern to the NATO Alliance or the United Nations. If he is so concerned that foreign powers want to take our weapons away. International law should confront these people who are plotting to take our guns away. Peace is the objective and Wayne appears to be the opposite of peaceful.
Paul
September 27th, 2011
5:39 pm
Thulsa
“Still disagree.”
We know.
Yours is bigger.
jm
September 27th, 2011
5:39 pm
Paul 5:36 – you’re not too bright pal. BRK’s operating cash flow (which is generous on my behalf for you) is $17,895, is less than their net income. Try again.
Strawman
September 27th, 2011
5:40 pm
“The secretary’s effective tax rate is probably in the 10% range, so she probably pays a total of 17.65% of in taxes versus Buffett’s 40%.”
Out of curiosity, does anyone know if she makes what a “normal” secretary would make or is she better paid than, say, a software engineer?
Thulsa Doom
September 27th, 2011
5:40 pm
Paul,
Nope. Just saying Bama and AU football is bigger than Tejas football. It is what it is.
DebbieDoRight
September 27th, 2011
5:41 pm
OK just HAVE to answer these!
josef: Ole Miss-Mississippi State game…best case for gun control at my folks’ annual revival!
In the words of my idol, (josef), Oy Vay!!
Doom: The arrogance of Texas is what did them in. With the advent of the new Longhorn network
Yeah that’s what I’ve been reading all over the blogs! I’ve been doing some research trying to figure out the approximate dollar value that Texas woud’ve garnered compared to the other schools, but whatever it was it must’ve been substantial!
Also, contrary to popular belief, BASKETBALL, not FOOTBALL, is the big money maker in college sports.
basketball with its tournaments that climaxes with the Final Four has a huge economic footprint for television, the National Collegiate Athletic Association (NCAA), advertisers and the colleges that are part of the tournament.
Basketball tournaments are also important to the NCAA, the tournament brings in 90% of the organization’s revenues. Interest over recent decades in the “brackets” — a term used for the grids that separate the 65 teams in the tournament into 16 different groupings — and in the eventual winners has greatly increased the tournament’s economic impact.
Colleges get direct payments from the telecast based on a complicated formula that takes into account the school’s athletic conference, how many teams from that conference make it to the tournament and how far each advances. Sometimes, these payments are split evenly throughout the conference, allotted even to those teams that do not make the tournament. For example, Morgan State University, one of the lesser teams in the tournament, got $291,000 for appearing one year. The 12 schools in the Atlantic Coast Conference — which includes previous year’s winner, the University of North Carolina — evenly split a hefty $15,863,538.
Basketball has more games, more tournaments, and more television appearances (which brings the school money) than does Football.
The next team the SEC need to grab should be a basketball powerhouse. THAT’s where the real money is.
BADA BING
September 27th, 2011
5:41 pm
Thulsa….don’t tell Jay that the AARP is the most powerful lobby. Now he will be scared of OLD PEOPLE!
Thulsa Doom
September 27th, 2011
5:42 pm
AmVet
September 27th, 2011
5:24 pm
”
My two cents about A&M joining the SEC?
A great match. Kind of of a UGA West.
Another school that has never really accomplished anything very notable in football, but thinks they’re some sort of perennial powerhouse.”
AmVet,
Careful there. You gonna hurt some people with that truth. But hey. The truth is the truth.
Matti Git Yer Gun
September 27th, 2011
5:42 pm
Jefferson,
Good point. So… why is it okay for gun-toters to have a union (NRA) to advocate on their behalf, and for business owners to have a union (Chamber of Commerce) to advocate on their behalf, but when cops, teachers, firemen, and regular working folks do it, somehow they are what’s wrong with America? Things that make ya go Hmmmm…
josef
September 27th, 2011
5:42 pm
BADA
@ 5:37
jm
September 27th, 2011
5:43 pm
Strawman, good question. But most middle class effective income tax rates are in the mid teens or very low 20’s.
A single filer making $130,000 pays an effective rate of 23%
Thulsa Doom
September 27th, 2011
5:44 pm
Bada Bing,
Better yet Jay is now gonna be scared of granny and her bazooka.
Mighty Righty
September 27th, 2011
5:44 pm
Questions: One) The UN treaty has not yet been written so how does anyone know what’s in it? Two) Who will enforce the bill, the UN or the US? Three) Isn’t this a question of sovergnty Four) Do treaties supercede our constitution? The whole thing is a crack pot idea typical of this administration.
Joe Mama
September 27th, 2011
5:45 pm
Recon — “Mama Joe, you like insulting people personally from the comfort and safety of your PC don’t you?”
If you feel I’ve insulted you, then man up and tell me about it. I can’t read your mind.
FWIW, I’ve noticed that you don’t seem averse to slinging insults yourself, so I think this might be a case of ‘Can Dish It Out But Can’t Take It.’ Time will tell.
“You must have been picked on most of your narrow life.”
Nope. But maybe *you* were, given your complaints.
Seriously, if you think I’ve insulted you, then strap on a pair and tell me about it instead of whining and sending out oblique insults in response.
But tell me tomorrow, because I’m going home to mess around with my wife now.
jm
September 27th, 2011
5:45 pm
Strawman a secretary making $34,000 would have an effective rate of 13.8%
Fact: Buffett pays more in taxes no matter how much liberal BS is spouted out by Jay and others who apparently don’t know much about how taxes or other things financial work.
DebbieDoRight
September 27th, 2011
5:45 pm
Doom: Just ask Tommy Tubberville who was out after one bad season.
Even VANDY is getting uppity!! They fired their coach last year because they were tired of being in the “looser” column!
PS: Did you see that azz whipping Ole Miss took from Vandy a week or so ago?! That coach, (the one whom I do not name) from Mississippi is toast!! Can’t wait until I don’t have to see his ugly mugg anymore on the sidelines!!
OK gotta go! Night all!!
Thomas
September 27th, 2011
5:46 pm
I am in agreement. Let’s stop funding the UN and use the wasted money to bolster medicare, medicaid, and ss. Who the hell is Wayne I Have A Pair anyway?
Thulsa Doom
September 27th, 2011
5:47 pm
Matti get your gun,
Simple. Gun toters don’t have a “union”. And they’re not negotiating for tax dollars either. And business owners in the form of the chamber of commerce aren’t a “union” either.
BADA BING
September 27th, 2011
5:47 pm
Y’all better watch out for Granny, who is a member of the NRAAARP. She carries a snubnose in her support hose.
Thulsa Doom
September 27th, 2011
5:48 pm
Debbiedoright,
Houston Nutt is a goner. Ole Miss started their trail back to mediocrity when they got uppity and fired a great coach in David Cutcliffe after one bad season.
Paul
September 27th, 2011
5:48 pm
Thulsa
That does strike me as a ‘mine’s bigger” argument.
I specifically excluded ‘just college to measure level of devotion.’
’s not a big deal. What I picked up from you and DDR is Alabama and some of the south is fixated on college football. Texas is fixated on football. Pro, college, high school.
Jay
September 27th, 2011
5:48 pm
Thanks for the update, guntrisha. It was 45 when the letter was initially sent to Obama in late July. Of course, since treaties require ratification by two-thirds of the Senate, it was also dead with just 45 signed up to oppose.
Doggone/GA
September 27th, 2011
5:49 pm
“Fact: Buffett pays more in taxes no matter how much liberal BS is spouted out by Jay and others who apparently don’t know much about how taxes or other things financial work”
Fact: it was WARREN BUFFET who said his tax PERCENTAGE was lower than his Secretary’s PERCENTAGE
jm
September 27th, 2011
5:50 pm
Doggone HE IS NOT INCLUDING THE TAXES PAID BY THE CORPORATION HE OWNS
Strawman
September 27th, 2011
5:51 pm
“So… why is it okay for gun-toters to have a union (NRA) to advocate on their behalf, and for business owners to have a union (Chamber of Commerce) to advocate on their behalf, but when cops, teachers, firemen, and regular working folks do it, somehow they are what’s wrong with America? Things that make ya go Hmmm..”
Well, as far as I know, the NRA or CoC doesn’t advocate for their members’ wages and benefits paid by you and me. Do you not know that, by almost any objective measure, the wages and benefits of a number of government workers are far superior to those of their private sector counterparts? And that bothers people, since it strikes them as being unfair. The reason for people’s disenchantment has not been a big secret.
Paul
September 27th, 2011
5:51 pm
jm
“Paul 5:36 – you’re not too bright pal. BRK’s operating cash flow (which is generous on my behalf for you) is $17,895, is less than their net income. Try again.”
You really don’t see the irony in that, do you?
jm
September 27th, 2011
5:51 pm
Doggone: in other words: HE IS BORDERLINE LYING. At best, a very deceitful version of “the truth”
jm
September 27th, 2011
5:52 pm
Paul 5:51 – you really know absolutely nothing about finance, do you…. (that’s a rhetorical question)
josef
September 27th, 2011
5:55 pm
BADA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xB7iz1HTh9U&feature=related
Paul
September 27th, 2011
5:56 pm
jm
oh, I think it’s pretty clear from the tenor and diversions of your posts which bloggers play free and easy.
Didn’t take you long to go personal, did it?
And you know what that’s a sign of…..
Doggone/GA
September 27th, 2011
5:57 pm
“Doggone HE IS NOT INCLUDING THE TAXES PAID BY THE CORPORATION HE OWNS”
NO HE ISN’T. HE’S TALKING ABOUT PERSONAL TAXES.
Jefferson
September 27th, 2011
5:57 pm
The GOP is simply a political union that hates unions. A Clinton Bigsby so to speak.
Strawman
September 27th, 2011
5:57 pm
“Strawman a secretary making $34,000 would have an effective rate of 13.8%”
Thanks, but I was wondering how much she actually made (since I greatly doubt it is a paltry 34k). And jm, I don’t think anyone on the left is arguing that she paid more dollars in taxes than her boss. But if, as Buffet’s secretary (and not some average one in a small business), she were making 80k or more (and I know executive secretaries who have made 70k or more), then she might well have had a higher effective tax rate than he did in a given year.
Mighty Righty
September 27th, 2011
5:58 pm
Boy, a bad week for Obama! Obama criticized by his black base. Germany calls his Euro bail out stupid. Calls janitors Jews in his speech. Doesn’t know difference between intercontinental and intracontinental, Gets caught using street talk in front of black audience. Can’t get sponsors for jobs bill in either House or Senate Promotes jobs bill in front of bridge that can never be part of his jobs recovery. Poll numbers continue to crash among Democrats, Jews, Blacks, and independants. All of this bad news after his speech in front of a joint session of congress and a national tv audience.
Thulsa Doom
September 27th, 2011
5:59 pm
Seriously, if you think I’ve insulted you, then strap on a pair and tell me about it instead of whining and sending out oblique insults in response. – Joe mama
Joe Mama,
I dunno Joe. Recon has a point.
Speaking of oblique insults in response. You went on a rant today about Dave R. who wasn’t even around and said some nasty things about him. You may not realize it but you have quite a habit of accusing others of not playing nice while being quite insulting yourself. And that wasn’t the first time you took shots at Dave R. when he wasn’t even around. You and him have gone at it numerous times and it seems to me that he always gets the better of you and hence your snipes at him when he’s not around.
Recon just noticed something that many of us see. You have no problem calling out others for insulting behavior while conveniently ignoring your own and your rant on Dave today was typical.
Thulsa Doom
September 27th, 2011
6:01 pm
Mighty Righty,
Its all over but the shouting. Obama is done.
Strawman
September 27th, 2011
6:01 pm
jm…never mind, I saw you other posts.
jm
September 27th, 2011
6:02 pm
Doggone 5:57 – no sh-t. That’s the point. If you have to pay 100% taxes on every nickel you made in, say, a casino business you had, but only 0% in your low cost restaurant business, and you had a consolidated company, would you say your tax rate is 0%?
Um, no.
Or I guess you don’t care about taxing corporate income anymore. Faaaantastic. Please notify the IRS and your congressman.
The stupidity and hypocrisy, amazing.
We have to count SS & medicare taxes, but not corporate taxes, but we do count capital gains taxes which are not income taxes.
Your statements are like Cynthia McKinney’s old district. Gerrymandered to death and a complete and utter joke.
Doggone/GA
September 27th, 2011
6:06 pm
“Last year my federal tax bill — the income tax I paid, as well as payroll taxes paid by me and on my behalf — was $6,938,744. That sounds like a lot of money. But what I paid was only 17.4 percent of my taxable income — and that’s actually a lower percentage than was paid by any of the other 20 people in our office. Their tax burdens ranged from 33 percent to 41 percent and averaged 36 percent.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/15/opinion/stop-coddling-the-super-rich.html?_r=1
Somehow, I think I’ll find it easier to believe the man with access to the actual tax records than I will with someone who is just GUESSING.
Matti Git Yer Gun
September 27th, 2011
6:07 pm
Strawman,
Um, yes, I GET that the NRA and CoC do not bargain for the wages of their members. (Duh!) However, they DO bargain for their positions on laws that affect their members (gun manufacturers, importers, and sellers, and bully corporations), and they do influence elections and legislation through well-orchestrated funneling of funds to ensure they get what they want from the “representatives” they purchase. It’s not the same as “wages” which only affect lowly working-class schmucks who don’t deserve a voice in their government, or in their chosen fields of work. Right? Thanks for encouraging me to clarify that.
Strawman
September 27th, 2011
6:08 pm
Since the subject if taxes is being bandied about, what is peoples’ estimation of the optimal peak of the Laffer curve? If you have an opinion, please also state the basis for that opinion.
kayaker 71
September 27th, 2011
6:09 pm
If you or Mr. LaPierre thinks that gun owners are going to give up their firearms for any reason, you are living in fantasy land. Oh, and BTW, it was interesting to read David Axlerod’s comments on the 2012 election. He stated that Bozo had a “Titanic Struggle” to win a second term, mainly because of unemployment and “partisan politics in Washington”. No mention of every that this clown touches turns to ……
Paul
September 27th, 2011
6:12 pm
Strawman
I’d say the peak’s about three or four inches, after Laffer crumpled the napkin….
Mighty Righty
September 27th, 2011
6:15 pm
There is no way any employer can know what the effective tax rate is for their employees.
Thulsa Doom
September 27th, 2011
6:16 pm
It’s not the same as “wages” which only affect lowly working-class schmucks who don’t deserve a voice in their government, or in their chosen fields of work. Right?- Matti
Matti,
Working class schmucks don’t have a voice in their govt? Really? They don’t get to vote? Who knew?
People don’t get a voice in their chosen field of work? Really? What are they slaves? They can’t negotiate salaries or perqs? They can’t up and quit and walk out the door at a whim and go to work somewhere else or open their own shop? They are just completely stuck at the total whim and command of their employer like an indentured servant or slave? Who knew we were living in fedual medieval Europe?
jm
September 27th, 2011
6:16 pm
Strawman, I’d say an all in tax rate of somewhere between 60-70%. Do I have an exact reason for that? No. That’s my intuition. But everyone’s different and you’ll start losing some people way before that, and you won’t lose some people until you hit 75% or so.
The more important question, is what is the relative tax rate of the US versus other countries these days? And the answer to that is the US is a very expensive place for a corporation to do business relative to other jurisdictions.
WOODSTOCK MIKE
September 27th, 2011
6:17 pm
“Your morning jolt: Coke chief says U.S. becoming more hostile to business than China”
Yeah, regulations don’t matter Jay, keep on thinking that until nobody wants to do business with the US. I think that’s what liberals actually desire…
Strawman
September 27th, 2011
6:17 pm
“Thanks for encouraging me to clarify that.”
In the first place, I am for the abolition of lobbyists. Secondly, your sarcasm won’t hide the fact that you didn’t address the point I was making: id est, the root cause for MANY people’s unhappiness with labor unions is the unfair disparity their members wages and benefits and their own. That, in itself, might not be sufficient grounds for the disenchantment. But to have to personally fund that disparity through paid taxes – that’s the real rub. When you are ready to acknowledge this point and address it, then we can talk. Otherwise, get a better moniker or speak to the hand.
WOODSTOCK MIKE
September 27th, 2011
6:17 pm
Go Braves!! We gotta have this one!!
jm
September 27th, 2011
6:18 pm
MIKE – yep, bingo. posted that earlier. Jay prefers to ignore along with the rest of libs.
Selection Bias run rampant.
WOODSTOCK MIKE
September 27th, 2011
6:18 pm
Do liberals hate the Braves because the tomahawk chop exploits native Americans?
Rhetoric Boi
September 27th, 2011
6:20 pm
Obviously this is rhetoric, not paranoia. Don’t let these two simple words confuse you.
Strawman
September 27th, 2011
6:23 pm
“Do I have an exact reason for that? No. That’s my intuition. But everyone’s different and you’ll start losing some people way before that, and you won’t lose some people until you hit 75% or so.”
Thanks for your response, jm. If Laffer was right (and I think most economists believe he was), then am I not right in thinking we should answer that question first of all (to set boundaries even if we don’t intend to approach them closely)? Before replacing the oil in a new car, I am going to want to know what specification is called for its engine will perform at its peak.
Matti Git Yer Gun
September 27th, 2011
6:24 pm
Thulsa,
Since when does a vote = influence? If that were true, there wouldn’t be lobbyists spending billions buying our legislators. Do you think your Congressman cares what you think if there’s no organization or big fat check attached to your letter? Haha! (Sure he does.. but only if you agree with him!)
As for the bargaining power of an individual working schmuck, let.. me… break.. this… down… slowly… dear: that is inversely proportional to the number of unemployed people seeking any one open position, which in 2011, is a *bleep* load. What, are you still living in 1995 or something? Bless your heart.
pogo
September 27th, 2011
6:27 pm
Some poor fool here stated today that Liberals don’t own weapons. This person is either incredibally naieve or totally dillusional. I kind of equate it to the liberals that sit here all day long saying that Obama will be re-elected next year. They still believe he will be. Borrowing from Granny Lizard, “poor things”.
And what about Kent? He knows that the Obama admininstration has created a business climate wherein business cannot prosper. But as is with most weasils, he didn’t have the nuts to say that. He wouldn’t come out and say that Obama’s proposed tax policies and that Obama’s healthcare legislation has essentially shut down corporate expansion (job creation) in this country. He had to add the tired argument about “political gridlock in Washington”. Kent knows what city his company’s corporate headquarters is located in and he knows he can’t tell the truth pertaining to the real cause, which is the uncertainty of the Obama administration. He was afraid he would offend the predominant demographic of the “ATL” if he actually told the truth.
Jay
September 27th, 2011
6:28 pm
jm, your claims of economic insight are as tiring as they are wrong. Which says a lot, because they are VERY tiring.
First, Buffett doesn’t own Berkshire Hathaway, as you allege. It is a publicly traded company. The taxes it pays are taxes IT pays. They are not taxes that Buffett pays. Corporate taxes are not personal taxes.
Second, his “secretary” is apparently more like an executive assistant to the CEO whose duties include a lot more than filing and typing, as might be expected. It is quite possible if not probable that he or she makes well into the six figures.
Third, Buffett says that he pays a tax rate of 17.65 percent on his taxable income. Someone of your obvious economic genius understands that means AFTER deductions. If his secretary/executive assistant has a taxable income of $75,000, which I suspect is on the low end, she/he paid close to $15,000 in taxes, or roughly 20 percent. Now add on his/her 7.65 percent payroll taxes, and he/she is easily paying a higher rate than Buffett. (Theoretically, you could add the employers’ share of payroll taxes to that total as well, since in economic terms it is a tax on the employee’s labor, paid as part of his/her compensation. But we won’t go there.)
1811/0311
September 27th, 2011
6:28 pm
Paul @ 5:15 pm
““THE GUN IS CIVILIZATION” by Maj. L. Caudill USMC (Ret)”
There’s a reason that guy did not make general…”
Yep …………….. and most probably/unfortunately in today’s environment it’s because he was a warrior and not a politician. Remember, generals must be approved by Congress.
kayaker 71
September 27th, 2011
6:34 pm
Bozo logic……
“To cut the budget, I am ordering today that funding to build a fence for the Mexican Border will stop and also I am killing funding which would put illegal aliens in jail”
“And what will you do with the money you save, Mr. President?”
“Hire more Spanish speaking teachers”.
out of the blue
September 27th, 2011
6:34 pm
Paul…I have to agree with you on Texas….Hell, all one needs to do is look at the U of Oregon. two of their superstars Darron Thomas and LaMichael james hail from Texas. Oklahoma could not compete without Texas players. Even Boise State has numerous players from Texas. But, the kicker here is what state is featured in Friday Night Lights,,, a hint It’s not Alabama, it’s not Nebraska, I could go on forever….It’s TEXAS!
1811/0311
September 27th, 2011
6:34 pm
WOOSTOCK MIKE @ 6:18
“Do liberals hate the Braves because the tomahawk chop exploits native Americans?”
Except for the ones that live on stolen Cherokee land (all of North Georgia). They don’t mind.
Paul
September 27th, 2011
6:36 pm
Scout
More likely ’cause he doesn’t exist.
Paul
September 27th, 2011
6:37 pm
out of the blue
Nicely said.
I once saw a listing of how many top schools’ football players were produced in Texas. It was incredible.
josef
September 27th, 2011
6:39 pm
POGO
“Do liberals hate the Braves because the tomahawk chop exploits native Americans?”
I don’t advise you to make a comment like that in THIS household! The liberal Unmentionable takes the little ones to the games…and, yep, he and they chop..:-)
Mighty Righty
September 27th, 2011
6:41 pm
Below is a quote from that “paranoid” Thomas Jefferson.
“Laws that forbid the carrying of arms . . . disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes . . . Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.”
–Thomas Jefferson, quoting Cesare Beccaria in On Crimes and Punishment (1764).
Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)
September 27th, 2011
6:41 pm
Second, his “secretary” is apparently more like an executive assistant to the CEO whose duties include a lot more than filing and typing, as might be expected. It is quite possible if not probable that he or she makes well into the six figures.
What? I’m hauling and lugging beer all day and there’s a danged secretary making four times what I make? I better not find out the boss down at the warehouse is paying Betty Boggess more than he’s paying me. I mean, I might not have a chest that sticks out to here and legs that would shame a model, but fair is fair! Now Bookman’s went and ruint my night. Heck, I might even wind up in favor of a union.
Strawman
September 27th, 2011
6:43 pm
MR – nice quote. Thanks for that. Despite his peculiarities, Jefferson sure had a lot of acumen – did he not?
josef
September 27th, 2011
6:45 pm
kayaker
“Hire more Spanish speaking teachers”.
And why not?
JohnnyReb
September 27th, 2011
6:47 pm
Obviously I’m late to the party, but nonetheless must point out Jay is trying to make a mockery of a very serious matter.
In the interest of full disclosure, I do belong to the NRA.
The core issue is, the Obama admininstration is willing to subrogate 2nd amendment rights to the UN. If Obama proceeds, there will be one hell of a fight. LaPierre fired the shot across the bow when he addressed the UN. The robo calls are followup.
Strawman
September 27th, 2011
6:47 pm
“Hire more Spanish speaking teachers”. And why not?
I have no problem with that – bi-lingual teachers can only be an asset. Uh…you did mean bi-lingual, did you not?
josef
September 27th, 2011
6:51 pm
STRAWMAN
Actually, at our site we go for multi-linguals…and our success rate using the native language as transitional to the mainstream English classroom in keeping the students abreast in the incremental studies (math and science) is pretty good…
Matti Git Yer Gun
September 27th, 2011
6:55 pm
JohnnyReb,
Why should one have to associate with the likes of that LaPierre fellow in order to own a firearm? Why should one be compelled to send LaPeirre’s people their personal information and money?
I see no reason for either. He pretends to advocate for me, but when his people call my home and start spilling lies in a plea for money, I’m thinking I’d have to be an idiot to trust him or anyone in his organization that spends that kind of money buying the government — of, by, and for, the lobbyists and the giant corporations who pay them. Let’s not pretend any of this is about me and my personal side arm, mmmm-kay?
Strawman
September 27th, 2011
6:55 pm
“Actually, at our site we go for multi-linguals…and our success rate using the native language as transitional to the mainstream English classroom in keeping the students abreast in the incremental studies (math and science) is pretty good…”
Well, given the current legal obligation to educate those who are not even citizens, then I think yours is a very pragmatic approach. What did you mean by “site” – school location?
JohnnyReb
September 27th, 2011
6:58 pm
Matti Get Your Gun – the NRA is one of the most powerful lobbying groups in the Nation. They raise big bucks to support political candidates against gun control. Their methods are no different from other lobbying groups. The telephone is a wonderful thing. If you don’t like what you are hearing, hang up.
josef
September 27th, 2011
7:01 pm
Strawman…
Site…my school…and we serve who comes through the door…and, yes, we do this from a sense of pragmatism to reach their maximum potential…interesting, though, our student population of non English home language students who are native-born, US citizens, is at 80%. Ours is an elementary school, and it is interesting to look at the top performers in the high school we feed into and see just how many of them were ESOL children in elementary school…those schools which don’t use our paradigm rarely figure into this statistic…
josef
September 27th, 2011
7:02 pm
JohnnyReb
Hang up? Hell if you don’t use the right ring code, we don’t even answer!
Strawman
September 27th, 2011
7:07 pm
Josef: Incidentally, thanks for your service as a teacher. It can be a very tough job. I know, as I once was an educator (at the college level, but am certified to teach, and actually student taught, at the secondary level). Remind me and we can talk shop one day. I have a lot of thoughts about what is amiss with the educational system, but I can tell you right away that the biggest problem is NOT the system itself but poor parenting (in the form of not being involved or worse). I would be curious to hear your thoughts.
carlosgvv
September 27th, 2011
7:08 pm
Jay, money is not just part of the reason. It is ALL of the reason. The NRA is the official mouthpiece for the big gun manufacturers who put profit above all else, including human lives. Their lobbyists are constantly in the offices of Congress promising huge amounts of campaign cash to those who promote their greed. They have twisted and distorted the “right to keep and bear arms” to suit their own money driven agenda. Congress, especially the Republicans, have skillfully used brainwashing and progaganda on their gullible electorate to encourage them to believe everything the NRA says. The results of this are thousands of lives lost each year in America in the name of selfshness and greed.
Soothsayer
September 27th, 2011
7:09 pm
“I better not find out the boss down at the warehouse is paying Betty Boggess more than he’s paying me. I mean, I might not have a chest that sticks out to here and legs that would shame a model, but fair is fair!”
Don’t worry, Redneck, it’s the “fringe benefits” he’s paying for!
Thomas
September 27th, 2011
7:09 pm
The favorite quote from Buffet-
“Our favorite holding period is forever”
You only pay income taxes at any rate on realized appreciation. An investment with a holding period of forever incurs a capital gains tax of 0%, while all along the holder can be getting wealthy from appreciation. That’s the real reason Mr. Buffett does not pay a lot of income taxes.
Damn, you libs are more stubborn than the cons were about invading the mideast. He doesn’t pay tax because he lives off of his accumulated wealth. He then paid 100’s of thousands to attorneys to avoid captial gains on 9 billion of stock.
If it wasn’t so sad it would be funny- hell, keep worshiping the man like the cons worship stealth fighters- everyone needs a religion.
Matti Git Yer Gun
September 27th, 2011
7:10 pm
JohnnyReb,
I did not answer the first few attempts, but because I had an open mind and a few spare minutes, I thought I would listen to what the caller had to say. First came a B.S. recorded question (press 1 or 2 to answer), and then a person came on and started repeating lies to me. I thought the nice young man working the phones on a Saturday should know that he was being paid to repeat lies. Wouldn’t you want someone to tell you? I would.
stands for decibels
September 27th, 2011
7:14 pm
also:
The flat-out paranoia of the NRA and Wayne LaPierre
In a just world, LaPierre woulda flatlined a lonnnnnng time ago.
josef
September 27th, 2011
7:15 pm
STRAWMAN
The teaching part of my job is the joy of my life! The system is an impediment at every turn and getting around it takes up an inordinant amount of time, effort and energy, but it can be done. As for the parenting thing, well, yes and no. At our school it’s really only a major problem with a handful of our native parents, the immigrant ones do a pretty good job of it and, because we do have the multi-linguals on staff, we are able to involve them in the kids’ schooling. Overall, we take what comes through the door, as I said, and our “problems” are society’s problems…but, don’t get me started!!