Pakistan: America’s friend and America’s enemy
Because we live in a time when the extraordinary has become ordinary, few people even batted at eye last week at remarks by America’s senior military official, Admiral Mike Mullen, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.
In testimony to a Senate committee, Mullen publicly accused Pakistan — an American ally and recipient of $2 billion a year in military aid — of helping to carry out both a deadly, high-profile attack on the U.S. embassy in Kabul and the truck bombing of a NATO base that wounded 77 soldiers.
The Pakistan-based Haqqani network, which carried out the attacks, “acts as a veritable arm of Pakistan’s Inter-Services Intelligence agency,” Mullen told the Senate Armed Services Committee.
“With ISI support, Haqqani operatives planned and conducted that truck bomb attack, as well as the assault on our embassy,” he continued. “We also have credible evidence that they were behind the June 28th attack against the Intercontinental Hotel in Kabul and a host of other smaller but effective operations.”
Questions about Pakistan’s reliability as an ally are hardly new; U.S. officials have long been critical of the level of cooperation it provided, particularly after Osama bin Laden was discovered living near a Pakistani army base. However, it’s one thing to question how much active support an ally is providing; it’s something else entirely to accuse that ally of participating in acts of war against you. After all, that is the action of an enemy, not an ally.
Given that Mullen chose to make such a charge publicly, you have to believe that the evidence to support it must be very strong, and that the behavior he condemned is part of a longstanding pattern. Indeed, the New York Times reports today on a 2007 attack on U.S. military personnel by Pakistani forces that killed Maj. Larry J. Bauguess Jr., the father of two young girls. The incident was hushed up at the time because of its political impact.
And yet, even in his testimony to the Senate last week, Mullen defended ongoing attempts to reach out to Pakistan, arguing that “a flawed and difficult relationship is better than no relationship at all. Some may argue I’ve wasted my time, that Pakistan is no closer to us than before, and may now have drifted even further away. I disagree. Military cooperation again is warming.”
Again, only in extraordinary times can a military official accuse an ally of backing attacks on our forces, then turn around and in that same session claim that military cooperation is warming. Yet frustrating as it is, Mullen’s testimony accurately reflects the tortured realities of our effort in Afghanistan and Pakistan.
Yes, Pakistan harbors and aids Taliban guerrillas who attack our forces. Yet Pakistan also serves as a critical conduit for supplies needed to keep our forces in Afghanistan fed, armed and fueled. (In the past year, U.S. forces have sharply reduced their reliance on Pakistani supply routes, but it remains significant.) So while we have no reason to trust Pakistan, we do find the relationship useful. And they no doubt feel the same way about us.
The question is what comes next. The public nature of Mullen’s criticism suggests that the United States may be building a case for direct action against Haqqani guerrillas in their Pakistani bases, including perhaps ground action. If Pakistan won’t address the problem on its own soil, the implication is that the United States will.
With the bulk of U.S. and NATO forces scheduled to leave Afghanistan by the end of 2014, you get the idea that reducing the threat posed by the Haqqani network is high on the generals’ to-do list.
– Jay Bookman
Mullen’s testimony
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244 comments Add your comment
(ir)Rational
September 27th, 2011
10:31 am
poison pen – Yeah, aren’t recessions great?
AmVet
September 27th, 2011
10:32 am
Make that Chamberlainian appeasement…
poison pen
September 27th, 2011
10:33 am
I have a great ides for our politicans, lets give Billions of dollars to our enemies so they can build or buy weapons to kill our young troops, because they sure as hell don’t do anything with the money that is good for their country.
Paulo977
September 27th, 2011
10:34 am
Am Vet
“Do they not understand that for the US to survive, we need a permanent war economy?”
The deadly truth!
Is there another way? When will we ever learn?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1y2SIIeqy34
Joe Mama
September 27th, 2011
10:37 am
P. Student — “I would like to say we can take kashmir in just 3 days from india…”
Then go enlist and show your country’s military how it’s done, tough guy.
If y’all were all that, you wouldn’t still be fighting over that region 65 YEARS AFTER YOU STARTED FIGHTING OVER IT.
RAMBLE ON!!!
September 27th, 2011
10:37 am
LOL, Jay is using the NYT as a resource again.
(ir)Rational
September 27th, 2011
10:38 am
Now now Joe, dumb trolls should be ignored (as much as possible). Otherwise they’ll never leave.
1811/0311
September 27th, 2011
10:38 am
AmVet:
“Make that Chamberlainian appeasement…”
You had me worried there for a minute …………………..
How true.
If you don’t keep them from getting nukes …………… it’s too late.
(ir)Rational
September 27th, 2011
10:39 am
RAMBLE ON!!! – So?
THWG!
Mick
September 27th, 2011
10:39 am
The only thing we know for sure is that our sun has about another 4-6 billion years of candle power. The planet will survive quite nicely. Man? We will just have to see how the next 100 years plays out. Fortunately, I will only be here a fraction of that time to help us find the right direction…
buttjee
September 27th, 2011
10:41 am
Allegations against Pakistan are blatant lies and are aimed at (1) Pressurize Pakistan to clean the mess created by US due to their failed policy which is against the ground realities of this region. (2) Use Pakistan as scapegoat for facing the criticism from the people of America. For being an ally of US, Pakistan had to pay a very heavy price in men and material. Pakistan’s economy has suffered a loss of over $ 70 billion. Over 5000 soldiers and more than 35000 Pakistani civilians have been killed in this war. Do you think the people of Pakistan have paid such a heavy price just to get US aid. As part of the propaganda campaign and to mislead the international community, the media in US has been publishing exaggerated figures of US aid to Pakistan. A major chunk of so called aid is the partial payment of expenditure on employment of Pakistani troops against the Taliban as demanded by US with their Do More Mantra. Another big chunk of this amount was the pay and allowances of the so called US Army Trainers which had been forced upon Pakistan. Large amounts out of the said aid are paid to the US Accountants and Auditors who are employed by the US authorities. Recently the figures released by Pakistan’s Finance Ministry indicate that only a small portion of the aid amount usually quoted in US press was received by Pakistan. On the other hand US had been getting all out support from Pakistan till the authorities in Pakistan realized that in spite of being the Key frontline ally the US is promoting the cause of enemies of Pakistan and is just not bothered about Pakistan’s genuine regional security concerns. The US should realize that such an approach towards Pakistan will always back fire because the people of Pakistan have enormous sacrifices and they would not like to sit on the fence when the US is heading for the END GAME. It will be better if instead of indulging in open blame game US should engage Pakistan in a constructive dialogue to work out a strategy which be acceptable and beneficial to both the sides.
Aquagirl
September 27th, 2011
10:46 am
poison pen – Yeah, aren’t recessions great?
Ah, Obama = recession = less traffic. I knew y’all could look on the bright side. And we thought Mary Elizabeth’s good vibes wouldn’t affect y’all……
AmVet
September 27th, 2011
10:47 am
Paulo, great song!
I’ll stand with Pete Seeger while some stand with Joseph McCarthy.
A modern day song of the same sort by a true American treasure…
You know that everybody has a voice
And how they use it is their own free choice
In your glory I will not rejoice
If you choose the ways of war
If you choose the ways of war
Ashes to ashes and dust to dust
My country ’tis of thee; in God we trust
But how much longer will He shelter us
While we choose the ways of war
While the winds of war rage on
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMUF0P0IxDw
Right Said
September 27th, 2011
10:47 am
Well, first of all Afghanistan is not the 51st state of the U.S; it’s a sovereign country under U.S. OCCUPATION! Afghans have every right to resist.
As far as all this Pakistan thing is concerned; it was just Mullen’s parting shot, since it was under his watch that Afghanistan slipped away.
(ir)Rational
September 27th, 2011
10:50 am
Aquagirl – Seems you’re hitting the pipe a little early today. I thought y’all were hardcore that this was Bush’s recession, not Obama’s. So, using your logic, doesn’t it stand to reason that Bush is causing lighter traffic?
Joe Mama
September 27th, 2011
10:53 am
Pakistani Wall of Text crit for 9000!
Steve - USA
September 27th, 2011
10:59 am
Not really an expert on Pakistan so I fold.
Jimmy62
September 27th, 2011
11:02 am
Pakistan is not our friend. Doesn’t mean we can’t use them, but they are only friendly to us so far as it supports their own goals.
Aquagirl
September 27th, 2011
11:04 am
I thought y’all were hardcore that this was Bush’s recession, not Obama’s.
I’ll write thank-you notes to both of them, just in case.
(ir)Rational
September 27th, 2011
11:05 am
Aquagirl – Good plan.
AmVet
September 27th, 2011
11:06 am
Two billion dollars every single year to the OBL hiders.
Makes you wonder what we could do with that money here in the USA, doesn’t it?
Your neighbors and communities thank you, neo-cons…
Mick
September 27th, 2011
11:12 am
I see this topic has slowed down to a crawl; here is some comic relief:
http://www.credoaction.com/comics/2011/09/our-story-so-far/
DebbieDoRight
September 27th, 2011
11:25 am
Thomas @ 10:00: Debbie- names and numbers please
(ir)Rational @10:06: Debbie – That doesn’t sound like a very good friend. She probably went to AU.
Booo!! Booo!!! As a matter of act she went to “Bama” — it was the only school she could get in to with her low grades and morals.
Joe Mama
September 27th, 2011
11:28 am
D. DoRight — “she went to “Bama” — it was the only school she could get in to”
Bama has a school? I was only aware of them being some sort of athletic team.
DebbieDoRight
September 27th, 2011
11:30 am
“Do they not understand that for the US to survive, we need a permanent war economy?”
Jay did an article a couple of months back, (during the conflict on whether to enter Libya or not),about how other countries start stuff then wait for the US to join into the fray and finish it for them. He made a great analysis of how the US spends so much more than other countries on defense and the spin to get us involved in various conflicts around the globe, (e.g.: Fighting for others’ freedoms, etc.)
Jameela
September 27th, 2011
11:30 am
Kill the Pig Poachers of Palestine
(Al-Jihad {holy fighting} in Allah’s Cause (with full force of numbers and weaponry) is given the utmost importance in Islam and is one of the pillars (on which it stands). By Jihad Islam is established, Allah’s Word is made superior, (His Word being La ilaha illallah which means none has the right to be worshipped but Allah), and His Religion (Islam) is propagated. By abandoning Jihad (may Allah protect us from that) Islam is destroyed and the Muslims fall into an inferior position; their honour is lost, their lands are stolen, their rule and authority vanish. Jihad is an obligatory duty in Islam on every Muslim, and he who tries to escape from this duty, or does not in his innermost heart wish to fulfill this duty, dies with one of the qualities of a hypocrite.)
(The Jews say: “Allah’s Hand is tied up [i.e. He does not give and spend of His Bounty].” Be their hands tied up and be they accursed for what they uttered. Nay, both His Hands are widely outstretched. He spends [of His Bounty] as He wills. Verily, the Revelation that has come to you from your Lord (Allah) increases in most of them their obstinate rebellion and disbelief. We have put enmity and hatred amongst them till the Day of Resurrection. Every time they kindled the fire of war, Allah extinguished it; and they ever strive to make mischief on the earth. And Allah does not like the Mufsidun [mischief-makers].)
(And you see many of them [Jews] hurrying towards sin and transgression, and eating illegal things [as bribes and Riba (usury). Evil indeed is that which they have been doing.)
(And they have invented a kinship between Him and the jinn, but the jinn know well that they have indeed to appear [before Him] [i.e. they will be called to account].)
(He [Isa-Jesus] was not more than a slave. We granted Our Favour to him, and We made him an example for the Children of Israel [i.e. his creation without a father].)
(And (remember) when We sent towards you (Muhammad [PBUH]) a group of (three to ten persons) of the jinn, (quietly) listening to the Qur’an. When they stood in the presence thereof, they said: “Listen in silence!” And when it was finished, they returned to their people, as warners.)
(They said: “O our people! Verily, we have heard a Book (this Qur’an) sent down after Musa (Moses), confirming what came before it: it guides to the truth and to a Straight Path (i.e. Islam).)
(And when the slave of Allah (Muhammad {pbuh} stood up invoking Him (his Lord—Allah) in prayer they (the jinn) just made round him a dense crowd as if sticking one over the other (in order to listen to the Prophet’s recitation).
(And indeed Musa [Moses] came to you with clear proofs, yet you worshipped the calf after he left, and you were Zalimun [polytheists and wrong-doers.]
(Verily, We took the covenant of the Children of Israel and sent Messengers to them. Whenever there came to them a Messenger with what they themselves desired not, a group of them they called liars and others among them they killed.)
(And they set up rivals to Allah, to mislead men from His Path! Say: “Enjoy your brief life! But certainly, your destination is the [Hell] Fire!”)
(Is it not [the case] that every time they make a covenant, some party among them throw it aside? Nay [the truth is:] most of them believe not.)
(They fight not against you even together, except in fortified townships, or from behind walls. Their enmity among themselves is very great. You would think they were united, but their hearts are divided. That is because they are a people who understand not.)
(Say [O Muhammad to the people of the Scripture): “Shall I inform you of something worse than that, regarding the recompense from Allah? Those [Jews] who incurred the Curse of Allah and His Wrath, and those of whom [some] He transformed into monkeys and swines, and those who worshipped Taghut [false deities]; such are worse in rank [on the Day of Resurrection in the Hell-fire], and far more astray from the Right Path [in the life of this world]”.)
(They are like their immediate predecessors [the Jews of Banu Qainuqa, who suffered); they tasted the evil result of their conduct, and [in the Hereafter, there is] for them a painful torment.)
(And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah is worse than killing. And fight not with them at Al-Masjid-Al-Haram (the sanctuary at Makkah), unless they (first) fight you there. But if they attack you, then kill them. Such is the recompense of the disbelievers.)
(“But whosoever turns away from My Reminder (i.e. neither believes in this Qur’an nor acts on its teachings.) verily, for him is a life of hardship, and We shall raise him up blind on the Day of Resurrection.”)
([This is the] Revelation sent down from the Lord of the Alamin [mankind, jinn and all that exists].)
([He is Allah] Owner of High Ranks and Degrees, the Owner of the Throne. He sends the revelation by His Command to any of His slaves He wills, that he (the person who receives revelation) may warn (men) of the Day of Mutual Meeting [i.e. the Day of Resurrection].
(And to warn those [Jews, Christians, and pagans] who say, “Allah has begotten a son [or offspring or children].”)
(No knowledge have they of such a thing, nor had their fathers. Mighty is the word that comes out of their mouths [i.e. He begot sons and daughters]. They utter nothing but a lie.)
(Your Ilah [God] is One Ilah [God-Allah, none has the right to be worshipped but He])
(“And indeed, We created man from dried [sounding] clay of altered mud. And the jinn, We created aforetime from the smokeless flame of fire.”).
(And I have created the jinn and men only to worship Me).
(And whoever seeks a religion other than Islam, it will never be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers.”)
Verses of the Qur’an Compiled by:
Jameela
Messenger of Allah
& Defender of Islam
DebbieDoRight
September 27th, 2011
11:31 am
JoeMama i really, really, REALLY like you!! You go boy!
Go Florida!!! Roll Over Tide!!!
(ir)Rational
September 27th, 2011
11:33 am
Debbie – As long as AU (and everyone else in the SEC) beats U(sic)GA, I’m fine with it.
Mick
September 27th, 2011
11:34 am
jameela
I’d rather be an atheist than be led around by that dogma…
Trotsky Foxtrot
September 27th, 2011
11:35 am
Keep your friends close, your enemies closer. Look on the bright side, with Pakistan we kill two birds with one stone!
godless heathen
September 27th, 2011
11:37 am
Jameela,
Go get a ham sandwich.
Schrodinger's cat
September 27th, 2011
11:38 am
wordy trolls today huh?
1811/0311
September 27th, 2011
11:46 am
What does Pakistan have to do with a transportation tax for Atlanta ??
Strawman
September 27th, 2011
11:48 am
Strawman
September 27th, 2011
11:46 am
Who was it yesterday that said Christie was out of favor with the people who elected him? This from Fox News:
“A new poll shows Gov. Chris Christie’s approval rating in the state has bounced back after taking a dip this spring during the state budget battles. The Fairleigh Dickinson-PublicMind poll released Tuesday shows 54 percent approve of the way Christie is handling his job; 36 percent disapprove. That’s up from up from May when 44 percent both approved and disapproved of Christie’s handling of his job. The polling came on the heels of praise for Christie for his handling of the response to Hurricane Irene in August.”
Joe Mama
September 27th, 2011
11:48 am
Trolly McTrollersons have invaded Jay’s blog.
getalife
September 27th, 2011
11:48 am
The gop can’t even stand up to the radicals in their party.
Too weak on national security.
Four more years.
Paulo977
September 27th, 2011
11:50 am
AmVet
“modern day song of the same sort by a true American treasure…”
Indeed indeed and a favorite of mine!
We keep on and on living this lie..
“My friend,you would not tell with suc high zest
To children ardent for some desperate glory
The old Lie:Dulce et decorum est
Pro patria mori”
– Wilfred Owen
DebbieDoRight
September 27th, 2011
11:51 am
wordy trolls today huh?
Who don’t even know what they’re posting. I’ve seen that dogma, (that Jameela posted), before — on a pamphlet passed to me by a Nation of Islam member or succinctly a follower of Farrakhan’s.
The NOI have a very distorted view of Islam AND their own contrived religion. They remind me of “Mormon Lites”.
crabby
September 27th, 2011
11:51 am
This Pakistan business has Mitt Romney in a twitter. During one of the Florida debates he criticized the current administration for not having a good relationship with Pakistan? You think! Maybe the fact that they were harboring OBL might have something to do with that? Gov. Romney may want to maintain date night with Pakistan but I’ll take President Obama’s approach.
Strawman
September 27th, 2011
11:51 am
So the constitutionality of the health care bill will be decided before the 2012 election it seems:
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0911/64475.html
JohnnyReb
September 27th, 2011
11:52 am
getalife – just exactly who are the radicals in the GOP? Let me guess; it has to be those old mean Tea Party people, right?
Jefferson
September 27th, 2011
11:53 am
They (pakis) make a lot of cheap knives.
Joe Mama
September 27th, 2011
11:55 am
I can’t wait to see Jameela and Scout go toe-to-toe.
1811/0311
September 27th, 2011
11:55 am
From FOX:
“THINK OF AMERICA’S DEBT AS YOUR FAMILY BUDGET”
Annual family income: $21,737
Annual family expenses: $38,188
Annual Credit Card debt $16,451
Planned Cuts & Savings: $ 385
Total Remaining Credit Card Debt $142,000
1811/0311
September 27th, 2011
11:56 am
Joe Mama:
Who is “Jameela” ?
Catch you later ………….. have to run.
DebbieDoRight
September 27th, 2011
11:56 am
(ir)Rational: Debbie – As long as AU (and everyone else in the SEC) beats U(sic)GA, I’m fine with it
HA!! A good friend of mine is a UGA grad. She’s so mad at Richt that if the dawgs loose another game, I’m afraid she’ll go over the bend. If you hear about a crazed, 5′1″ small blonde woman, (in Donna Karan), pulling up those hedges, slapping Ugla, tearing down goal posts and looking for Richt with a big ole baseball bat in her tiny hands; tell Richt to get out of town fast. She may be little, but she’s MEAN.
getalife
September 27th, 2011
11:57 am
Duh reb.
DebbieDoRight
September 27th, 2011
12:00 pm
So the constitutionality of the health care bill will be decided before the 2012 election it seems
I saw that (Kyle just did a blog on it); should be interesting to read the argument that they’re going to put before the Supremes huh?
Joe Mama
September 27th, 2011
12:00 pm
Scout — scroll up, pal. (laughing)
Lord Help Us
September 27th, 2011
12:00 pm
JR,
‘getalife – just exactly who are the radicals in the GOP? Let me guess; it has to be those old mean Tea Party people, right?’
Johnny, I think Jon Stewart had you (and a few others in mind) with this piece:
http://tpmlivewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/09/jon-stewart-to-gop-voters-take-a-long-hard-look-in-the-mirror-video.php?ref=fpb
The problem ain’t the mirror…too funny…
Joe Mama
September 27th, 2011
12:01 pm
D. DoRight — ” If you hear about a crazed, 5′1″ small blonde woman, (in Donna Karan), pulling up those hedges, slapping Ugla, tearing down goal posts and looking for Richt with a big ole baseball bat in her tiny hands; tell Richt to get out of town fast. She may be little, but she’s MEAN.”
So she was in a sorority at UGA then, right?
getalife
September 27th, 2011
12:03 pm
The corrupt sc will say it is constitutional because a VP of a health care company wrote the bill.
It is corporate welfare and the cons will lose.
Again.
Get over it sore losers.
DebbieDoRight
September 27th, 2011
12:10 pm
So she was in a sorority at UGA then, right?
How’d you guess?
getalife: The corrupt sc will say it is constitutional because a VP of a health care company wrote the bill.
This is going to be REAL interesting huh? I bet Faux News will set up a “Death Of Obamacare Watch”; with a ticking time bomb as the visual representation. (They have to have a visual aid so all their fans can understand).
Strawman
September 27th, 2011
12:12 pm
“I saw that (Kyle just did a blog on it); should be interesting to read the argument that they’re going to put before the Supremes huh?”
Que sera, sera when it comes to the Supreme Court. If they rule in a way not supported by the majority of Americans, then I suppose that will partly steer the outcome of the elections. If Republicans take control of the legislative and executive branches, then a favorable ruling to Obamacare will be nullified.
getalife
September 27th, 2011
12:15 pm
Debbie,
I think they found willardcare constitutional so it is much ado about nothing.
howard kurtz ( the dumbest man in politics) wrote about fox attacking the gop candidates will make the cons leave their propaganda channel.
Where are they going to go?
U.S.Pakistan ties grow increasingly strained – Politico | pakistan news
September 27th, 2011
12:15 pm
[...] on MilitancyVoice of America (blog)Pakistan pushes back against US chargesReuters UKCBS News -Atlanta Journal Constitution (blog)all 2,316 news [...]
Peadawg
September 27th, 2011
12:16 pm
“Pakistan: America’s friend and America’s enemy”
Um…didn’t we just find Osama hiding like 10 minutes from a Pakistan military base? Oh right…Pakistan didn’t know.
I would say Pakistan is most definitely our enemy.
Steve - USA
September 27th, 2011
12:17 pm
Kind of like MSNBC attacking Obama, it’s not going to happen.
getalife
September 27th, 2011
12:18 pm
Pea,
Better tell willard.
He thinks they are still our friend.
Joe Mama
September 27th, 2011
12:22 pm
Steve – USA — “Kind of like MSNBC attacking Obama, it’s not going to happen.”
Said the person who’s clearly never watched MSNBC.
Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)
September 27th, 2011
12:22 pm
Well, you just can’t trust a Raghead. You even need to count your fingers after you shake hands with one. There they are over there, attacking and killing us. And all we do is give them money that we need to borrow and then we act like things is just hunky-dory. I say we stop destroying our perfectly good atomic weapons because of some librul treaty and put the things to good use. Starting with their atomic weapons and working our way to their cities. Then we can spread about six inches of salt over every square inch of that country. A dead Pakistan is a good Pakistan.
Not that I’m for war or anything like that.
Have a good p.m. everybody.
Tom Middleton
September 27th, 2011
12:27 pm
Jay, we could just go steal their nukes and then tell India to go get ‘em. That’d learn ‘em, wouldn’t it? Just kidding….
Jm
September 27th, 2011
12:28 pm
Jay 9:53 probably
Though I’m pretty sure the military has plans to that effect
How practical and realistic they are is hard to speculate on
We flew in and popped OBL in the middle of their country….
Strawman
September 27th, 2011
12:28 pm
“Where are they going to go?”
After a lobotomy, to MSNBC
Trotsky Foxtrot
September 27th, 2011
12:29 pm
Lindsay Graham Considers Military Action Against Pakistan
WASHINGTON — A Republican on the Senate Armed Services Committee said Sunday that the U.S. should consider military action against Pakistan if it continues to support terrorist attacks against American troops in Afghanistan.
“The sovereign nation of Pakistan is engaging in hostile acts against the United States and our ally Afghanistan that must cease, Sen. Lindsey Graham told “Fox News Sunday.”
He said if experts decided that the U.S. needs to “elevate its response,” he was confident there would be strong bipartisan support in Congress for such action.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/09/25/lindsay-graham-pakistan_n_980330.html?ncid=txtlnkushpmg00000002
St Simons - we're on Island time
September 27th, 2011
12:29 pm
Thank you for guest posting, Jameela, Americans, especially the cons, encourage the free expression & practice of religion. It’s #1 in our Constitution, And props to the Host. That probably wouldn’t have got in the Times-Union down here.
Mick
September 27th, 2011
12:29 pm
**We flew in and popped OBL in the middle of their country….**
Gutsy call by the president, he doesn’t get enough credit from all you naysayers….
Thulsa Doom
September 27th, 2011
12:30 pm
I’m with Brocephus on this one. Lets just leave and let them backwards azz savages go back to blowing each other up. These peoples are about as corrupt, backwards, and just plain hopeless as can be. 1000 years from now they will be just as backwards, corrupt, and crazy as they are today.
Schrodinger's cat
September 27th, 2011
12:30 pm
Debbie ya had me until “Mormon Lite”..you just couldn’t help yourself could you…Are you really gonna compare Islam to a “lighter” version of Mormonism?
DebbieDoRight
September 27th, 2011
12:30 pm
If they rule in a way not supported by the majority of Americans, then I suppose that will partly steer the outcome of the elections.
Maybe — at least that’s what Kyle is hinting at. However, the Supremes have people like Clarence and that nut job Scalia who make common sense verdicts (as in corporations are NOT entities/people), hard to second guess which way things will go. The Supremes with the two dunces on the court, have ruled against the majority in favor of Corporations time and time again.
If Republicans take control of the legislative and executive branches, then a favorable ruling to Obamacare will be nullified.
It doesn’t work like that, (supposedly). However with these justices that are now on the court leaning so literally to the right and practising judicial activism at its finest, you never know what’s going to happen next. Perhaps if one of them, (Obamacare proponent) offered Thomas some stocks, (See Monsanto’s relationship with Thomas and Thomas’ vote in their favor after he refused to recuse himself), it just might pass.
ragnar danneskjold
September 27th, 2011
12:32 pm
Adm Mullen is the closest thing to a “friend” that Pakistan has in the American government. My guess is that the good admiral was sending a message to the Pakistan military.
Thulsa Doom
September 27th, 2011
12:33 pm
Mick,
Giving the go ahead for our forces to take out UBL is actually a pretty easy call. I think any potus would have made it. I will give Obama much more credit though for turning up the drone attacks inside of Pakistan and taking it to them. Under Bush we didn’t have very many drone attacks and quite frankly if a guerilla force has safe harbor in another country then they will never be defeated. They can just outwait you. So I will give Obama a lot of credit for going after them hard in Pakistan.
Mick
September 27th, 2011
12:38 pm
doom
**Giving the go ahead for our forces to take out UBL is actually a pretty easy call**
Easy for you to say, that is. Pakistan is a sovereign country and I don’t think we would take it too kindly if cuba were to try any type of incursion into the US. Oh, wait a second, maybe that’s why they keep sending their refugees over here. You know, people like marco rubio….
Strawman
September 27th, 2011
12:38 pm
“It doesn’t work like that, (supposedly).”
If the Congress changes the law, the Supreme Court has no say in the matter except to (again) evaluate the constitutionality of the law.
DebbieDoRight
September 27th, 2011
12:38 pm
SC: Debbie ya had me until “Mormon Lite”..you just couldn’t help yourself could you…Are you really gonna compare Islam to a “lighter” version of Mormonism?
Not literally CatDaddy! (By your writing I’m ASSuming you’re a guy) My point is that Mormon is a “new” religion which has it’s own “bible” and own rules of conduct if you will. Nation Of Islam is sorta like that, they “pretend” to be followers of Islam but what they actually are are followers of Elijah Muhummad (Founder); a man who knew nothing of the relgion or its tenets but saw an opportunity to corrupt a facet of the religion for his own dogma and personal gain.
He was probably the father of “Radical” Islam.
Jm
September 27th, 2011
12:39 pm
Thulsa ditto
stranger in a strange land
September 27th, 2011
12:40 pm
Jamellah @ 1130…..so bottom lined, do you want to cut my head off?
Jm
September 27th, 2011
12:44 pm
I don’t think jay knows our military capabilities….
Even if they’re not limitless. They’re pretty close.
Jm
September 27th, 2011
12:45 pm
Pakistan is a royal mess……
RB from Gwinnett
September 27th, 2011
12:51 pm
Not to worry…. Obama’s gonna change the tone of our relations with middle east. They’re going to LOVE us when he gets done with them!!!
Just ask Mubarak and Qadaffi…
DebbieDoRight
September 27th, 2011
12:52 pm
If the Congress changes the law, the Supreme Court has no say in the matter except to (again) evaluate the constitutionality of the law.
What I meant was it just won’t happen immediately, or even at all, with the advent of a regime change. Few things are ever overturned that quickly — it’ll probably take a few years and a few fights for any type of change in a law passed down by the Legislature. For instance Abortions are still on the books, even though we’ve had a stacked house of repubs vs. dems before and theoretically the repubs could’ve changed that law the first chance they got but they didn’t.
Joe Mama
September 27th, 2011
12:53 pm
Y’know, when Dave was back here last week, being his usual condescending jerkazoid self, he posited that Kyle Wingfield’s blog (Kyle was apparently on vacation last week) had a higher level of discourse than Jay’s, and that’s why he prefers to hang out there now.
I submit this thread as an example of that alleged higher level of discourse. What do you think? Higher level of discourse or feces-flinging tree-monkey fight in progress?
http://blogs.ajc.com/kyle-wingfield/2011/09/27/t-splost-is-traffic-just-not-as-bad-for-republicans/?cxntfid=blogs_kyle_wingfield
Bosch
September 27th, 2011
12:54 pm
Okay, I know this is my first post today and it is totally off topic, but:
That picture on the front of the ajc.com of that guy on top of the Washington Monument is making have a panic attack….
Strawman
September 27th, 2011
12:56 pm
“Jamellah @ 1130…..so bottom line, do you want to cut my head off?”
Ummm…I think “Jamellah” is a literary device called a persona – a fictitious character created for use, say, in sarcastic writing.
mm
September 27th, 2011
12:59 pm
jm,
“As opposed to the Libyan stingers that are now in terrorist hands.”
How do you know they are in terrorists hands? Because Libya is a muslim country? Typical.
Thomas
September 27th, 2011
12:59 pm
Ummm…I think “Jamellah” is a literary device called a persona – a fictitious character created for use, say, in sarcastic writing.
Only a/the Strawman would be equipped with such insight…..
James Kirk
September 27th, 2011
1:00 pm
With friends like that…… By the way, wouldn’t it be nice if we were a wee bit friendlier with and more suppoirtive of, oh, I don’t know, how about Western Europe? Do we need to be friendly with freaking Pakistan???
Spock
September 27th, 2011
1:02 pm
“Do we need to be friendly with freaking Pakistan???”
That’s illogical.
Spock
September 27th, 2011
1:03 pm
“Only a/the Strawman would be equipped with such insight…..”
That’s illogical.
Aquagirl
September 27th, 2011
1:06 pm
that guy on top of the Washington Monument is making have a panic attack….
Glad to know I’m not the only one who freaked out.
Mr_B
September 27th, 2011
1:08 pm
My guess is that “Jamellah” is actually Scout or one of the other local Islamophobes. Jay?
RB from Gwinnett
September 27th, 2011
1:12 pm
Is anybody else sick of hearing the lying POS congress men and women whine about the tax loopholes these evil rich people and businesses have “bought” with their lobbiest money? I mean, who in the hell do these morons think was paid to put those loopholes in the tax code in the first place? Somebody needs to tell these morons to STFU and if they don’t like bought and paid for loopholes in the tax code to stop taking the money and stop approving the laws.
And stop lying to the American people about it!! At least half of us aren’t that stupid.
Bosch
September 27th, 2011
1:15 pm
Aquagirl,
I think my heart skipped a beat…I definitely quit breathing for a bit.
H.W. Fowler
September 27th, 2011
1:17 pm
“Islamophobes”
This term was one of the first to make it into my upcoming “The King’s Politically Correct English.” A very nice term that captures the completely unfounded fear of a religion whose adherents (in parts outside of the western world) flog non-conformists to death, behead them, blow them to pieces and other innocuous things. Isn’t English great?
getalife
September 27th, 2011
1:18 pm
Looks like RB from Gwinnett finally woke up.
Welcome to the real world RB.
Jm
September 27th, 2011
1:21 pm
Mm doesn’t watch the news. And mm doesn’t make any sense either.
“How do you know they are in terrorists hands? Because Libya is a muslim country? Typical.”
Must be Getalife’s sock puppet
Mr_B
September 27th, 2011
1:21 pm
H.W.Fowler: You seem to believe that Islam has a monopoly on atrocoty. Check out the history of the Catholic Church in medieval Europe.
Do such evils exist? Sure. But they didn’t begin, nor will they end with Isalm.
jugs
September 27th, 2011
1:22 pm
the enema of my enemy is my friend….
Bosch
September 27th, 2011
1:24 pm
So, Jay, remember how you said Palin wouldn’t sue that author guy?
Well….
http://www.thedailybeast.com/cheats/2011/09/27/palin-threatens-to-sue-joe-mcginniss.html
Never underestimate dumb.
getalife
September 27th, 2011
1:25 pm
Our President has been warning us about Pakistan for years.
After he double tapped obl and the recent attacks on us over there is proof he is right.
Hillary is applying the pressure for them to act.
The adults are dealing with this problem.
Not a good time to change leadership.