You’re gonna cut entitlements? Suuurrrre you are
Granted: The national debt is a serious challenge to our economic prosperity and national security, and according to every budget projection, the problem will become even more serious in the years ahead.
So what are we going to do about it? Cut entitlement spending?
No, you’re not.
Not by enough to matter, anyway. If you want proof, take a look at how quickly that Texas tough guy, Rick Perry, has tried to backpedal on all that bluster about Social Security. And at this point, remember, he’s still running in the Republican primary, where such views are supposed to be popular.
On the other hand, if looking at Rick Perry is more than you can bear, you can also look at this:
Look at those numbers. If your plan for solving the debt crisis is to cut entitlements, you have no plan to solve the debt crisis.
The poll was conducted on behalf of the National Committee to Preserve Social Security and Medicare, which is grounds for approaching it with caution. However, it was conducted jointly by two nationally respected opinion research companies, one with generally Republican clients, one with generally Democratic clients. More importantly, its findings are consistent with poll after poll taken on the subject.
As the poll also found:
“When asked to choose between tax increases on the top 2 percent of income earners or cuts to Social Security and Medicare as a way to reduce the deficit, 94 percent of Democrats, 82 percent of independents, and 64 percent of Republicans prefer tax increase on the top 2 percent of income earners.”
The truth is, entitlements do have to be cut. Medicare’s current path is unsustainable. And with Social Security, a change in how benefits are adjusted for inflation would go a long way to making the program actuarially sound for the next 75 years. That’s not popular with voters — two-thirds of Americans oppose the idea, the poll found — but it probably has to be done anyway. (The poll also found that 71 percent of Americans favor raising the $106,000 cutoff on payroll taxes, compared to just 21 percent opposed).
However, such benefit changes are politically plausible only as part of a much larger package in which the burdens of debt reduction are shared broadly, through tax increases as well as spending cuts. Without such a package, forget it.
(And before you argue that we’ll just cut elsewhere, the so-called untouchables in the budget — defense spending, pensions, Medicare/health spending, Social Security, veterans programs and interest on the debt — amount to $3.1 trillion out of a total budget of $3.7 trillion. You could totally eliminate everything else the government does — environmental protection, federal courts, the FBI, border patrol, food inspections, the State Department, foreign aid, food stamps, Congress, the national parks — and still reduce the deficit by less than half.)
If you truly believe that the national debt is a serious threat, you have an obligation to quit the nonsense and get serious about politically realistic avenues for addressing it. Otherwise you’re contributing to the problem that you claim to abhor.
– Jay Bookman
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365 comments Add your comment
Jay
September 23rd, 2011
3:22 pm
The liberal game is to get 51% of folks to have a) a tax federal tax refund or b) pay no federal taxes. End of story. Very close to completion by the way.
Of course, the fact that so many lower-income Americans pay no federal INCOME tax (they do pay significant payroll taxes) has been driven largely by the earned income tax credit (a GOP idea enacted under Ford and expanded under Reagan, Bush I and Bush II) and the Bush II tax cuts.
But hey, never let reality interfere with a good emotional rant, right?
(ir)Rational
September 23rd, 2011
3:24 pm
That’s right Jay! Thanks for your permission.
Bosch
September 23rd, 2011
3:24 pm
“dag-nab-it, I am starting to sound like Bosch”
irRational,
See? You will soon see the light.
(ir)Rational
September 23rd, 2011
3:25 pm
I’ve been taught to run away from the light (especially in train tunnels).
Kamchak
September 23rd, 2011
3:26 pm
Of course, the fact that so many lower-income Americans pay no federal INCOME tax (they do pay significant payroll taxes)
Not to mention federal excise taxes.
John Birch
September 23rd, 2011
3:27 pm
First force all government employees to have the same pension and health care plans the rest of us have. Second cut all the bridge to nowhere pork out. Third, if entitlements are to be cut then the funding for them should be considered a tax with no relationship with the theoretical future benefit so….eliminate the $106,000 cap on SS tax. Fourth, cut everything left 5% a year every year until the budget is balanced.
Mick
September 23rd, 2011
3:28 pm
jm
Don’t you get it? Americans love their social security, fix it move on and in a couple of more decades you’ll be loving it too. Medicare and medicaid are more complex and they definately have to be addressed. The absolute wrong solution would be the ryan plan which is just another tax cut giveaway, enough of that b.s. already!!
Trotsky Foxtrot
September 23rd, 2011
3:28 pm
Thomas: “The liberal game is to get 51% of folks to have a) a tax federal tax refund or b) pay no federal taxes. End of story. Very close to completion by the way.”
What’s a “liberal” game ? I really don’t know what that word means. Please explain.
George P. Burdell
September 23rd, 2011
3:28 pm
We will end up fixing the SS and Medicare debacle like we always do, by working over the middle class. There will be talk about raising retirement age, raising the tax, taxing higher than the current minimum, and means testing. The thing that won’t be mentioned is that we will also probably have to print dollars and try to find a way to make sure that the inflation from the printed dollars does not work its way into the calculation of benefits. Any way you slice it, the poor are going to be taken care of beyond what they put into the system. The rich aren’t depending upon it in the first place even if they never get a dime. That leaves the good old middle class to basically make up the difference between what they probably deserve from the system and what has to be paid out to help the poor. There simply is not enough money in the top brackets to make up for the shortfalls on the low end. The people that will really be mistreated are the above average middle class that have the audactiy to pay their 15% of wages in and are responsbile enough to also save for their own retirement. If you are in your 30s or 40s now and are saving for retirement, if you are successful in meeting that goal, you can forget getting any significant contribution from SS. Herein lies the danger in using polls to guide public policy. I bet something like 90% of Americans believe they work harder than the average American and 95% believe they deserve to be able to retire whether they save or not. 100% of us will be sinking on the same boat but lets not worry about that, we’ll just keep believing Marley when he sang “Everything is gonna be alright”.
(ir)Rational
September 23rd, 2011
3:29 pm
I could get behind that idea John Birch.
too little time
September 23rd, 2011
3:30 pm
Sad to say, you are on the money here, Jay. Everyone in this country who is older than 40 or 45 (and especially those close to 55) has had their money taken by the Feds for their entire working lives.
Now they are told by Republicans that its a Ponzi scheme (Perry) or that we need to gut Medicare for those under 55 (Ryan), and a legion of Republicans say they are behind the push. But you know what? Those programs have already stolen billions… if not trillions… from people.
Your average 54 year old who has made an average $50k per year (i.e. PURE middle class, no “wealthy” here) has paid $285,000 actual dollars into the system. Had that same person been able to save that money at a modest 5% interest rate, he would have about $770,000, and would be set for a decent retirement. The average person will never get his original contributions back.
Raising a family on $50k per year, it is simply not possible for that person to save much more than the 15% that is already being taken from his salary. At 5% savings, (s)he will have about $200k in the bank right now. That person will have no home equity (it was wiped out by the Great Recession), and it is likely that the person has/will be unemployed and will reduce/eliminate his future contributions.
So, this person has $200k in the bank, an (with the economy the way it is), no real possibility to increase that in the near future. Interest rates are near zero, and the economy has stagnated. Commodities prices have sky rocketed. The Fed has devalued that $200k by half over the last 10 years. Ageism makes it likely that this person will lose his job over the next few years, and it is unlikely that he will ever work in his field of expertise again.
So what do you have? This person has done EVERYTHING right. He worked hard, paid his taxes, saved some money, and the economy… led by reckless banks and unregulated derivatives… killed his chances of retiring comfortably. The government, by stealing his money for the last 36 years, has left him unable to finance his own retirement.
And now, the Republicans want to remove the safety net. After the late-boomer/genX generations paid for the early boomer/”greatest generation” to live a wealthy retirement, the Republicans are asking them to live in poverty for the sake of future generations. In other words, they are asked to foot the bill for their grandparents, parents AND their children by living in poverty.
NOW you know why the polls that Jay is citing say what they do. It is untenable to steal the life savings of everyone born between 1956 and 1975, and force them to live in poverty in retirement, so that their parents, grandparents and children can live a comfortable life in retirement. There is too little time and a horrible economy for that group to do anything significant about their status, and that says nothing about the investing environment that they have experienced over the last three decades:
http://moneywatch.bnet.com/retirement-planning/blog/retirement-beat/late-baby-boomers-the-worst-off-401k-generation/490/
Rick Perry is in denial if he thinks an entire generation of people who have forked over hundreds of thousands of dollars to these “ponzi schemes” are just going to walk away from the table with nothing.
(ir)Rational
September 23rd, 2011
3:30 pm
George P Burdell! WHAT’S THE GOOD WORD?!?!?!
Joe Mama
September 23rd, 2011
3:30 pm
Thomas — “The liberal game is to get 51% of folks to have a) a tax federal tax refund or b) pay no federal taxes. End of story.”
Why? Because then we can call out “Uno?” Because we stick the GOP with the “Old Maid” card?
cosby smith
September 23rd, 2011
3:30 pm
Yep you are correct Jay. The citizens ahve been sucked into government control of their lives. they will allow the elite DC crowd to dictate their well being. Kind of a shame, but I guess down the road, when the citizens tire of living meger lives while the elite take lavish, Mrs. Obama, vacations, then and maybe then, they will decide it is not worth it….A sad state of affairs for onnce a great nation. Sad!!
DebbieDoRight
September 23rd, 2011
3:31 pm
We can hopefully remove the Braille from the Drive-thru ATMs
I always wondered about that……….
1811/0311
September 23rd, 2011
3:31 pm
Hey ………….. a “bar chart” this time ………….. impressive !
jm
September 23rd, 2011
3:32 pm
Mick
“Americans love their social security”
Everyone loves getting a check from the government when they’re not paying for it.
Adam
September 23rd, 2011
3:32 pm
(ir)Rational: Good point. I actually pulled that up and closed it too fast to have the link I found it from. I am pretty sure if you Google the questions you’ll find the poll’s source though.
It was a reputable poll, but the specific questions aren’t what my point was. My point was that people DO favor tax increases in some cases. Of course no one wants their own taxes to be raised if they are having a hard time paying for things as is, but that doesn’t mean that raising taxes in areas that would be least hurt by the change isn’t a good idea. People recognize that, and it is reflected in polls like this one.
Bosch
September 23rd, 2011
3:33 pm
“Rick Perry is in denial if he thinks an entire generation of people who have forked over hundreds of thousands of dollars to these “ponzi schemes” are just going to walk away from the table with nothing.”
Word.
As someone in that category (age 40-45) that ain’t gonna fly in my world.
jm
September 23rd, 2011
3:33 pm
Mick..
….. and they don’t understand that 40 cents of every dollar in that check is being borrowed from the Chinese, destroying the wealth of this nation.
josef
September 23rd, 2011
3:33 pm
irRational
“dag-nab-it, I am starting to sound like Bosch”
There are a lot worse you could sound like…
Nice graphs…but why bother? The whole mess is gridlocked into mutually antagonistic camps who have no further plan/agenda than stopping whatever it is the other side wants…
Brosephus™ - Browning America Since 1973
September 23rd, 2011
3:33 pm
I never advocated for gridlock.
I’m not saying you personally did. You tend to take the conservative view on most things, and many conservatives here did just that. They cheered and begged for gridlock. That’s what we have, and that’s what caused our ratings drop. That’s what’s gonna continue to screw with our recovery. Ask and ye shall receive.
Bosch
September 23rd, 2011
3:33 pm
“Everyone loves getting a check from the government when they’re not paying for it.”
They’ve ALREADY paid for it — it’s a loan payback.
carlosgvv
September 23rd, 2011
3:33 pm
50 million people are on Social Security. That is a huge voting bloc that no political party can either ignore or abuse. Since this is common knowledge, why are certain Republicans telling their electorate that entitlements must be cut? Do they think their supporters are so simple that anything they are told will be believed? And, on top of that, the Republicans are moving heaven and Earth to protect the rich from any tax increases. Do you Republican diehards have any idea how stupid your politicians are making you look?
1811/0311
September 23rd, 2011
3:34 pm
“We’re the country that built the Intercontinental Railroad,” Barack Obama.
Now ………… in my younger days I worked my way through college as a brakeman on the railroad but I never heard of the New York to Paris run ???
jm
September 23rd, 2011
3:34 pm
“What’s a “liberal” game ? I really don’t know what that word means. Please explain.”
A game that has very unclear rules.
Rule 1: Pay me now, pay me again later.
Rule 2: Whatever you do now based on current rules may be upset later
Rule 3: All rules subject to change any time
Mick
September 23rd, 2011
3:35 pm
too little time
@
September 23rd, 2011
3:30 pm
Nice work
That is the most concise, clear argument about how I feel regarding the repub drive to dismantle social security – H3LL NO..
Bosch
September 23rd, 2011
3:35 pm
“There are a lot worse you could sound like…”
Thanks josef! Yeah, like Mr. “lets just take away babies from their moms if they can’t afford it”
I’ve been blogging here a long time, and I’ll be damned if that didn’t make my mouth drop from the stoopid. And I’ve seen alot of stoopid.
Adam
September 23rd, 2011
3:35 pm
jm: Everyone loves getting a check from the government when they’re not paying for it.
So… people don’t pay for social security? Who knew?
1811/0311
September 23rd, 2011
3:35 pm
Ah ………………. the truth of the libs. finally comes out !
“Michael Moore Threatens The Rich: Let’s “Deal With It Nonviolently Now”
(ir)Rational
September 23rd, 2011
3:36 pm
Yeah, josef, there are worse people I could sound like. I could sound like a Man. U fan.
Bosch – That guy is dropping a lot of stupid.
jm
September 23rd, 2011
3:36 pm
Bro, I will say, given the choice between this mess, and Obama’s ideal situation, I will take gridlock. I’d prefer they learn to compromise, but Obama hasn’t gotten religion yet.
If Obama had his way, we’d be a high tax, high debt, high deficit country forever until we ended up in utter ruin. Seriously. Read Mitch Daniels new book.
Paul
September 23rd, 2011
3:37 pm
As I understand it so far, when people speak of ‘entitlements’ they mean SS, Medicare and Medicaid:
SS is on pretty good ground and will be okay years out with minor adjustments. It has its own funding stream thru payroll taxes, not income or other tax sources.
Medicare, which funds old folks health care, is funded thru payroll taxes and other sources. This is the one gobbling megadollars that poses the most serious financial risk.
Medicaid, which funds poor folks’ medical care, is a joint Federal/state program States pick up about half the tab. Features vary widely by state.
Biggest near-term problem is Medicare, so emphasis on SS is not proper. But… emphasizing Medicare near-term problem means solutions can’t be explained as shifting onto the younger generation. Cuts will most likely affect current beneficiaries, who comprise a vocal, active and high-voting block.
Am I incorrect on any of that?
Adam
September 23rd, 2011
3:37 pm
jm: If you’re going to continue down this path of demonizing anyone who doesn’t think like you, I sense a ban in your future.
DebbieDoRight
September 23rd, 2011
3:37 pm
Everyone loves getting a check from the government when they’re not paying for it.
We pay for it every paycheck — no one is giving anyone anything.
Mick
September 23rd, 2011
3:37 pm
jm
You are a foolish, selfish, lame excuse for an american – that’s a check I paid into for close to 40 years now – you are pathetic….
Kamchak
September 23rd, 2011
3:38 pm
I always wondered about that…
It’s for the guy/gal in the backseat.
Geez…
Bosch
September 23rd, 2011
3:38 pm
irRational,
It practically oozes from his pores….ewww….
Jefferson
September 23rd, 2011
3:38 pm
How do you get a SS check without someone related to you DIDN’T pay in? Maybe they are mad because they don’t understand because they were running the gumms…
josef
September 23rd, 2011
3:39 pm
Bosch, Irrational
Glad y’all are here to do it…I’m not allowed to counter stupid…
Brosephus™ - Browning America Since 1973
September 23rd, 2011
3:39 pm
First force all government employees to have the same pension and health care plans the rest of us have.
I’m a federal employee who pays into a 401k and have been doing so since I was hired. My insurance company is Aetna, and just like everyone else, my premiums have gone up 280% since I first signed up. What else do you want from me? And contrary to popular opinion, federal pensions have been geared just like private sector pensions since Reagan’s administration. My pension is dependent on my SS income, my TSP (fed 401k), and a defined pension from the gov’t. If I don’t contribute to my TSP and manage that right, I’ll be working well beyond retirement age because I won’t be able to afford to retire.
Adam
September 23rd, 2011
3:39 pm
Scout: “We’re the country that built the Intercontinental Railroad,” Barack Obama
I’m adding this to my list of things that disqualifies you from rational discussion. Right up there with “teleprompter” and “57 states” and “CORPSEman”
It’s like you never flubbed a word in your life!
DebbieDoRight
September 23rd, 2011
3:39 pm
Read Mitch Daniels new book.
There’s your sign.
Doggone/GA
September 23rd, 2011
3:40 pm
“So… people don’t pay for social security? Who knew?”
See, here’s how what passes for logic in that crowd goes: because the money was paid DIRECTLY TO YOU, it’s not REALLY your money, it’s your company’s money. So (per the logic) NO, YOU don’t pay for SS – your company does.
Trotsky Foxtrot
September 23rd, 2011
3:40 pm
jm:
“Rule 1: Pay me now, pay me again later.
Rule 2: Whatever you do now based on current rules may be upset later
Rule 3: All rules subject to change any time”
I agree!
1-Pay me now, pay me later — a perfect description of capitalism as it moves progressively towards a “rent” based model of ongoing payments
2-Whatever you do now based on current rules may be upset later — exactly, especially when you have the SCOTUS in your pocket and they are gutting consumer protections and other protections the middle class depends on
3-All rules subject to change any time: see #2
Yep, I agree. It’s a perfect description of life under late capitalism if you ask me.
Bosch
September 23rd, 2011
3:41 pm
Paul,
Not to mention that once this current generation is gone, the younger generations that are much smaller won’t cost as much because there are fewer people.
Doggone/GA
September 23rd, 2011
3:41 pm
OOps! “because the money was paid DIRECTLY TO YOU” I meant is NOT paid directly to you!
Granny Godzilla
September 23rd, 2011
3:42 pm
jm
honey, you don’t have to swing at every pitch
defense spending untouchable? what?
September 23rd, 2011
3:43 pm
Why is defense spending untouchable? We’re out of control in that area.
josef
September 23rd, 2011
3:43 pm
PAUL
Really enjoyed that play-by-play from y’all last night..beat the h3ll out of watching the game…
Bosch
September 23rd, 2011
3:43 pm
“If Obama had his way, we’d be a high tax, high debt, high deficit country forever until we ended up in utter ruin.”
Based on what jm? Is that what the little voices in your head tell you?
Paul
September 23rd, 2011
3:44 pm
Bosch
So the real issue in entitlement reform is how to cut medical care for older American, correct?
No wonder those here want to discuss anything but that -
(ir)Rational
September 23rd, 2011
3:45 pm
josef – Why can’t you counter stupid? You’re plenty smart.
Bosch – Yeah, he should take a shower, it could help. Oh, and you mentioned something about the younger generations being smaller, I’m not smaller, ask the Mrs.
(I am in a REALLY good mood today, and I can’t figure out why).
jm
September 23rd, 2011
3:45 pm
Adam (whatever) and Mick
Say what you want. Social Security, other than being legalized by the government, exactly resembles a ponzi scheme. You can demonize me. You can call me un-American all you want. It does not change the math.
Today’s beneficiaries are paid out of the taxes I pay, every day, TODAY. Not from taxes they paid 40 years ago. Period. The End.
md
September 23rd, 2011
3:45 pm
“The whole mess is gridlocked into mutually antagonistic camps who have no further plan/agenda than stopping whatever it is the other side wants…”
Ah Jo, but they do have a plan………..each has this wonderful idea to convince enough independents to their “side” in order to win a 3 segments of gov’t during the next vote and then they can implement their “mandate”.
It’s the dang mandates that are killing us………………….
Both have this revolving 4 year plan………and screw the time in between.
1811/0311
September 23rd, 2011
3:45 pm
Adam:
Just being fair ………….. if that had been Bush, Jay would probably have made it a thread ……………………………….
generation x/y
September 23rd, 2011
3:46 pm
I have zero desire to pay into a system where all of my money goes towards a bunch of old retired people. Just b/c they were stupid enough to go along with that system for all these years and had no foresight to see the problems with the system doesn’t mean that I should have to keep going along with it.
Thanks a lot Boomers. You’re a smart bunch of spoiled brats.
Brosephus™ - Browning America Since 1973
September 23rd, 2011
3:46 pm
If Obama had his way, we’d be a high tax, high debt, high deficit country forever until we ended up in utter ruin. Seriously. Read Mitch Daniels new book.
Mmmhmm, yeah right.
You’re talking about the same Obama that threw his own party under the bus in the debt limit negotiations? You’re talking about the same Obama that has caved to damn near every GOP demand over the past 2+ years? Whatever you’re smoking/chewing/inhaling/injecting, I’d suggest you decrease the amounts very slowly so that your hallucinations don’t turn violent on you.
Obama’s been a better GOP president than Bush was. In regards to the GOP, Obama’s like that little puppy that rolls over for a tummy rub every time you walk by. He has the spine of a sour gummy bear.
out of the blue
September 23rd, 2011
3:46 pm
JM……as I have said many a time…you are a hoot! But, the following quote is proof you are more then a hoot. You are a either insane, don’t know what your talking about, or an idiot!
“Americans love their social security”
“Everyone loves getting a check from the government when they’re not paying for it.”
I won’t even bother debating that idiotic statement!
Paul
September 23rd, 2011
3:46 pm
josef
Thanks. I aim to please!
(read that on a wall over a toilet)
Adam
September 23rd, 2011
3:46 pm
jm: Now you’re just trying to get attention.
Kamchak
September 23rd, 2011
3:47 pm
Social Security, other than being legalized by the government, exactly resembles a ponzi scheme.
There’s your sign.
1811/0311
September 23rd, 2011
3:47 pm
Adam:
All aboard !
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFRy4f73HTg&feature=related
Adam
September 23rd, 2011
3:48 pm
Brosephus: He has the spine of a sour gummy bear.
Damn. You owe me screen cleaner.
josef
September 23rd, 2011
3:48 pm
FNM and early….!
Adam
September 23rd, 2011
3:49 pm
There’s travelin sheets btw
DebbieDoRight
September 23rd, 2011
3:49 pm
Have a nice weekend folks. I’m out — here’s to the argument I’m going to be a part of in about 2 hours, it’s also my Friday Night song selection, called Harper Valley PTA — saw the movie last night on cable– good movie.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aOZPBUu7Fro
Later Gators.
Bosch
September 23rd, 2011
3:49 pm
Paul,
That’s how I see it because the Boomers represent the biggest amount of people who will be on it at once. After them, then my group and there ain’t near as much as us.
Paddy O
September 23rd, 2011
3:51 pm
entitlement cuts, at least on ss & medicare, would be last on the list. I do think you need to means test SS, and probably severely curtail all the disabled payments from SS. There are plenty of other places to reduce spending prior to getting to the entitlements. I would imagine you can shave at least 50 billion from medicaid.
(ir)Rational
September 23rd, 2011
3:52 pm
Bro – I’m going to steal that “spine of a sour gummy bear” saying and start using it. And Adam, pass me the screen cleaner.
Paddy O
September 23rd, 2011
3:53 pm
brosephus – I guess you wholeheartedly concur with an earlier Obama Luckovich cartoon, where Obama is wrestling with the elephant & the ref tells Obama “you gotta stop yelling uncle before the match starts”. Last two years puts us in Sep 2009, with democrats in control of both houses. Why was Obama conceding to Repubs back then? Practicing?
Joe Mama
September 23rd, 2011
3:54 pm
jm — “Say what you want. Social Security, other than being legalized by the government, exactly resembles a ponzi scheme. You can demonize me. You can call me un-American all you want. It does not change the math.”
Nope. It doesn’t change the math. The exact same math that every other INSURANCE company in the country uses.
When you pay insurance premiums, money’s not held in an account in your name. Your premiums are mingled with the premiums of others and invested or lent out so that the insurance company can make money on the margin.
Reserve funding is maintained, based on actuarial expectations of how many customers are likely to make a claim in the near future. The other funds are used for investing, for acquisitions, for funding ongoing operations, etc. But State Farm’s not a Ponzi scheme and neither is Social Security. They both work the same way.
I’m really getting tired of the SS-as-a-Ponzi-scheme canard. I think it plays on the fact that most Americans have no idea how insurance works and exploits the fear of going bust. It’s a dishonest argument, and I think that most people here who use that argument are smart enough that they shouldn’t be fooled by it.
Paddy O
September 23rd, 2011
3:55 pm
gen x/y – the self absorbed generation continues its pursuit of narcissism perfection.
jm
September 23rd, 2011
3:56 pm
bro
“You’re talking about the same Obama that has caved to damn near every GOP demand over the past 2+ years?”
Yeah, cause the GOP demanded them. Otherwise, never woulda happened.
Ok, it’s Friday at 4. I’m putting the sword down for the day.
Don’t worry all you retirees. You’re getting your check every month for a good long, long while.
When’s Fri music come up?
joe
September 23rd, 2011
3:57 pm
Best way to cut entitlement spending is to get jobs to those people, or at least those who actually want to work. Obama’s plan has done ZERO to create jobs, so…the means to an end would be vote out Obama and get a new POTUS who can actually do something to create jobs (such as drill for oil and natural gas…then process it here at home), and the net effect is lower entitlement spending. Elementary, Watson!
Bosch
September 23rd, 2011
3:57 pm
“I’m going to steal that “spine of a sour gummy bear” saying and start using it. And Adam, pass me the screen cleaner”
Yes, Brosephus, I third that and will also add that to my lexicon.
bookman parrot
September 23rd, 2011
3:57 pm
tax libs more and see if it works. then if does then cons can follow suit if needed.
Paddy O
September 23rd, 2011
3:57 pm
Joe – the ponzi scheme notion is the same half baked opinion advocacy that you saw when discussing DADT – the people pushing their opinion don’t understand the subject they are pontificating about.
MrLiberty
September 23rd, 2011
3:57 pm
Complete and total collapse of the dollar and the economy are the alternatives. Then you cut by default. Just ask Greece, Argentina, Zimbawe, etc. You cannot alter the laws of economics by majority vote. You can only postpone them and we have been postponing them for over 80 years now and the bill is coming due very soon.
Bosch
September 23rd, 2011
3:58 pm
“and I think that most people here who use that argument are smart enough that they shouldn’t be fooled by it”
And by the same token, those that keep saying it are dumb enough to believe everything they hear.
Paddy O
September 23rd, 2011
3:59 pm
sadly, far too many inept federal judges are also apparently NOT too conversant with the military and the US Constitution.
Joe Mama
September 23rd, 2011
4:01 pm
Paddy — “Why was Obama conceding to Repubs back then? Practicing?”
At times I think the man’s got no stones.
Jimmy62
September 23rd, 2011
4:02 pm
We can only play with the candidates we have. Which is why I’m looking at Ron Paul, the only one with principles he will stand by.
Kamchak
September 23rd, 2011
4:06 pm
(such as drill for oil and natural gas…then process it here at home)
This crap again?
Just like all commodities, they are sold on the open market.
FEAR (False Evidence Appearing Real)
September 23rd, 2011
4:08 pm
If Medicare obtained the same drug prices as the VA, it would save $510 per beneficiary per year or a total of $14 billion per year (2009 prices).
It’s just a drop in the bucket however +14B/yr isn’t pocket lint either.
Lucifer
September 23rd, 2011
4:08 pm
I don’t know why I’m getting off track but someone mentioned Limbaugh. You know every time I hear the opening theme song to his radio show I visualize him coming out on stage wearing only a diaper, with one of those wide colorful ribbons across his chest that babies are shown with in ushering in a new year, with a lit cigar in one hand and a milk bottle in the other … with his lard belly bouncing to the tune of his music and his chubby legs pouncing up and down like a gazelle. God, this is a horrible vision; somebody please make it stop!!
duder
September 23rd, 2011
4:10 pm
Why is there no opt-out for SS or Medicare? I’m sure I can better invest my earnings than Uncle Sam.
midtownguy
September 23rd, 2011
4:10 pm
The only sensible plan is to raise the retirement age. The real culprit is that the average life expectancy has increased dramatically since it’s inception. Social Security was not designed for citizens to collect benefits for 20 years or more.
Raise the SS age to 70 in increments based on date of birth. Those who plan financially will still be able to retire early and the “foolish virgins” will still be taken care of.
This is not a Democrat vs Republican issue nor is it related to the current resident of the White House.
Strawman
September 23rd, 2011
4:10 pm
Those polls reflect the fact that people – especially those who have been paying into the benefits programs for years – don’t want to get short shrifted down the road. That is understandable. A way has to be found to at the same time modify these programs while keeping them as equally beneficial as they are now. Some form of the Chilean model (something Bush tried to implement) really needs reconsideration.
Joe Mama
September 23rd, 2011
4:12 pm
Lucifer — “God, this is a horrible vision; somebody please make it stop!!”
What has been seen . . . cannot be un-seen.
Clearly you need Brain Bleach.
Trotsky Foxtrot
September 23rd, 2011
4:17 pm
Joe Mama: “I’m really getting tired of the SS-as-a-Ponzi-scheme canard. I think it plays on the fact that most Americans have no idea how insurance works and exploits the fear of going bust. It’s a dishonest argument, and I think that most people here who use that argument are smart enough that they shouldn’t be fooled by it.”
It’s pure demagoguery. As with 98% of the black slime ooze that issues from the Republican propaganda apparatus. They deal in foul lies. Period.
Rich
September 23rd, 2011
4:18 pm
Lucifer: Crap, now you’ve got Limbaugh dancing in my head. It’s not a nice picture. Thanks a lot!
Bosch
September 23rd, 2011
4:21 pm
“Clearly you need Brain Bleach”
No, I need it after reading that.
midtownguy
September 23rd, 2011
4:26 pm
Joe Mama: I am quite certain Obama’s “stones” left town in Nancy Pelosi’s clutch bag.
too little time
September 23rd, 2011
4:26 pm
generation x/y wrote I have zero desire to pay into a system where all of my money goes towards a bunch of old retired people. Just b/c they were stupid enough to go along with that system for all these years and had no foresight to see the problems with the system doesn’t mean that I should have to keep going along with it.
Thanks a lot Boomers. You’re a smart bunch of spoiled brats.
Really? Do you have a job? Then you are paying it too. Welcome to the stupid/spoiled brat club. And if you think you can be “smart” and not be stupid or spoiled brat, stop paying those taxes. See how long it take for the IRS to take everything you own and put you in jail. Then you will realize that paying wasn’t a choice/option. Do not call the victim a crime stupid/a brat because he forked over his wallet when a gun was put in his face. In theory, you might see a choice. In reality, the choice is your wallet or your life, so you hand over your wallet.
For the late boomers (those born after 1950 and especially 1956), they had no vote and no choice in the matter… just like you. We were ALWAYS outnumbered and never had even the slightest opportunity to vote it down. Those born from the great depression to 1950, along with liberals, the poor, etc, voted for it and prevented changes to. You cannot blame everyone in a democracy for the sins of the current/temporary majority. But once someone has been subjected to the will of the majority (and paid his taxes), you can bet he will take whatever return he can salvage from the situation. You will , too, if you pay another 30 years into the system.
Brosephus™ - Browning America Since 1973
September 23rd, 2011
4:28 pm
Damn. You owe me screen cleaner.
Adam, my bad…
I get tired of hearing the crap about Obama being some uber-liberal monster when he’s thrown the far left under the bus more than Bush did. If/When Obama acts like some uber-liberal, I’ll call him on that. Until then, Obama’s superliberalism like the legend of Bigfoot. It’s some scary campfire story to scare the poop out of conservatives when no such monster exists.
Skeptic
September 23rd, 2011
4:28 pm
the real) Independent
September 23rd, 2011
2:03 pm
Women (and men) have no business getting pregnant if they cannot pay for the delivery of the baby and be able to support the child after it is born.
OH MY!!!! Jesus, Mary and Joseph!!!!
Brosephus™ - Browning America Since 1973
September 23rd, 2011
4:32 pm
I guess you wholeheartedly concur with an earlier Obama Luckovich cartoon [...] Why was Obama conceding to Repubs back then? Practicing?
I thought that was Luckovich’s funniest one since he did the squirrels and Jesse Jackson. I have not a clue as to why Obama was conceding so much. I can honestly say he’s a dumbass for believing he could form a consensus with a party who’s sole objective is to remove him from office. Maybe Obama believed that he could actually accomplish something in office, either that, or he’s really a “Manchurian Candidate” planted by the GOP to keep Hillary from office.
Common Sense
September 23rd, 2011
4:32 pm
So those that are collecting benefits did not contribute enough as they went to actually fund the payments they would receive later in life.
Therefore it is now the responsibility of they younger generations to A) keep paying into this system and B) accept cuts in benefits down the road because they are not contributing enough to fund the benefits they would receive later in life? That’s the American way?
The argument is really about who is going to be forced to make the sacrifice.
To force future generations to pay is the greatest miscarriage of justice possible.
Sometimes the right thing to do is not the popular thing to do. A concept the majority will not comprehend here.
There were simply not enough funds withheld from those that are today collecting benefits. Their benefits must be cut.
They screwed up. They trusted government. Future generations should take note before they think they are going to get benefits at a level that is not supported by their contributions.
Bad choices have bad consequences. If bad choices have no consequences, then there will never be an incentive for real change.
Bosch
September 23rd, 2011
4:32 pm
Oh Skeptic, just wait, it gets better….