To GOP, taxes on wealthy a bigger threat than national debt

Republicans like to speak in dire, almost apocalyptic tones about the impact of our growing national debt on future generations of Americans.

Rep. Paul Ryan, for example, predicts that on its current path the national debt “will overwhelm the budget, smother the economy, weaken America’s competitiveness in the 21st century global economy, and threaten the survival of the government’s major benefit programs.”

House Speaker John Boehner paints an equally grim picture, warning that “America’s debt crisis threatens our job growth, our national security and our children’s future. Simply put, our debt threatens our very way of life and, without significant changes, the future of our country.”

Terrifying as our growing debt might be, however, one thing frightens Republicans even more: Tax hikes on the richest 1 percent of American households. Even though wealthier Americans have reaped most of the benefits from a global economy that has left many other Americans struggling to stay in the middle class, the GOP refuses to ask the wealthy to sacrifice to help reduce the national debt.

If forced to choose between raising taxes on the rich by a moderate amount and letting the debt jeopardize “our job growth, our national security and our children’s future,” Republican leaders have made it repeatedly clear they will risk higher debt. Every single Republican candidate for president, for example, is on record as rejecting a solution of 10 dollars in spending cuts in return for a single dollar in tax hikes. And in comments last week, Boehner made it clear that a congressional “supercommittee” charged with reducing the deficit has only one option, spending cuts, because revenue increases will not be considered.

It’s important to be clear about the scale of the sacrifice being sought. For example, President Obama is once again proposing to let the Bush tax cuts for the rich expire as scheduled in 2013. For a couple with an adjusted gross income of $350,000 after taking all their deductions, that would mean an increase in taxes of $4,000, less than 1 percent of their total income. (If a chunk of their income comes from capital gains, the increase would be considerably less.)

That is a fate far too ugly to be contemplated by Republicans in Congress.

It is important to note just how out of touch the Republicans are with the American people. Poll after poll has found overwhelming support for trying to reduce the debt through a combination of spending cuts and tax hikes, rather than through spending cuts alone. The latest such poll, released by the National Journal, demonstrates just how broad that consensus is.

According to the poll, only 28 percent of Americans embrace the GOP position of reducing the deficit through spending cuts alone. Sixty-two percent advocate some mixture of tax increases and spending cuts.

Among independent voters, just 31 percent advocate addressing the problem through spending cuts alone, compared to 59 percent advocating tax hikes as well. Among those making more than $75,000, 29 percent advocate spending cuts alone and 67 percent advocate tax hikes and spending cuts.

Even a majority of Republicans polled (51 percent) support a mixed approach, with just 42 percent supporting the position taken by their elected leaders in Washington. But because the GOP has been taken captive by its own most extremist elements, allowing almost no independence of thought, speech or action, that moderate position has no voice among elected party officials.

– Jay Bookman

953 comments Add your comment

stands for decibels

September 20th, 2011
9:02 am

Wealth HATERZ!

TaxPayer

September 20th, 2011
9:04 am

I’m curious. If the Republicans have their way with the rest of US and eliminate all taxes, who will pay their debt. Who will pay the Judge to sit and hear their argument about those that were stupid enough to lend them money. Who!

stands for decibels

September 20th, 2011
9:04 am

only 28 percent of Americans embrace the GOP position of reducing the deficit through spending cuts alone

when have conservative Goopers given a good crap about what a majority of Americans actually believe about matters of actual importance?

They wedge-issue their way through elections. Always have, always will.

(ir)Rational

September 20th, 2011
9:05 am

I would bet, if given more options in those polls, most people would be in favor of across the board tax hikes as well as spending cuts. Not focusing on trying to force a small group of people pay for everyone. Just my thoughts. Also, your math is a little off there, $4,000 is more than 1% of $350,000 not less.

The Leg Lamp is a “major award”….

September 20th, 2011
9:05 am

How about an article outlining honest attempts to reel in the national debt.?. Not the usual “raise taxes” or “cut costs”, but unbiased facts about what can legitimately done. Nah, not gotta keep the pot stirred.

(ir)Rational

September 20th, 2011
9:07 am

SFD – And that is different from all politicians everywhere how?

TaxPayer

September 20th, 2011
9:07 am

The Republicans have declared outright class warfare. They have finally got income inequality back to the 1920s level and they are going to fight to keep it there! Will they bring back the Charleston and Prohibition next! I wanna be a G-man. Can I get one of those Dick Tracy watches.

Granny Godzilla

September 20th, 2011
9:08 am

This is incredibly popular with the American people. That pesky
20 something percent that always wants to cut off it’s own nose to spite President Obama’s face won’t support it but tough doodie.

It’s a win win for the President and the Nation. If we get it we win…
if the GOP fights it we win.

It’s the right thing to do.

The Leg Lamp is a “major award”….

September 20th, 2011
9:09 am

TaxPayer
September 20th, 2011
9:07 am

“Can I get one of those Dick Tracy watches.”

I believe I read where Cocoa Puffs were going to be including them in specially marked packages for a limited time.

Paul

September 20th, 2011
9:10 am

“According to the poll, only 28 percent of Americans embrace the GOP position of reducing the deficit through spending cuts alone…. the GOP has been taken captive by its own most extremist elements, allowing almost no independence of thought, speech or action, that moderate position has no voice among elected party officials.”

This column (?) ought to be in the opening remarks of the first presidential debate.

Or at least rephrased for the next Republican debate.

Of course, Republicans have a two-word answer: Class Warfare!

Now, will anybody provide a reasonable response countering the analysis?

(cue laughter…. now)

FrankLeeDarling

September 20th, 2011
9:11 am

I guess they feel our country is not worth a dime.
why do they hate America?

The Leg Lamp is a “major award”….

September 20th, 2011
9:11 am

Jay,

Care to show us a graph that indicates how much the National Debt will be reduced if Obama’s $1.5 trillion tax plan is adopted? Oops, my bad…..he doesn’t have a plan (even though it needs to be passed “now”).

Paul

September 20th, 2011
9:13 am

(ir)Rational

“Not focusing on trying to force a small group of people pay for everyone.”

I don’t think that’s the goal.

For those with incomes a million and above, the goal is to see that all in that group pay the same amount as a percentage of their income as do middle-class families.

The Leg Lamp is a “major award”….

September 20th, 2011
9:13 am

Wow, so now everyone is rallying around what Americans said in one poll. Where were you champions at when the majority of Americans were against Obamacare? Don’t come spewing numbers based on national health care in general, but Obamacare specifically.

Bosch

September 20th, 2011
9:13 am

IrRational,

And I’d bet they wouldn’t. The main argument for not raising taxes on the wealthy is that we can’t punish those that create jobs, which has been shown over and over to be horse shyt.

And arguing that those on the bottom half of the economic scale use the ballot box to promote their own self interests is dishonest considering that it’s not a guarantee that either rich or poor vote lock step with one party.

WOODSTOCK MIKE

September 20th, 2011
9:13 am

President Clinton yesterday on CNBC…

“President Clinton believes “We need to broaden the base of the corporate tax and lower the rates. Our corporate tax rate is now the second highest in the world after Japan. And for other reasons, corporations don’t leave Japan. But our corporate tax take is not 35 percent, it’s 23 percent. And the European tax is 24 percent. So the take is OK, the average take. The problem is that ranges from a high of 35 to a low of about 10. So I think there’s real opportunity here for bipartisan agreement to broaden the tax base and lower the rate to a competitive rate, 23, 24, 25 percent.”

Keep Up the Good Fight!

September 20th, 2011
9:14 am

And of course, those spending cuts cannot come from the defense budget….they must come from everything else.

WOODSTOCK MIKE

September 20th, 2011
9:14 am

“I guess they feel our country is not worth a dime.
why do they hate America?’

I’m suprised someone this dumb even knows how to type.

Paul

September 20th, 2011
9:14 am

Leg Lamp

“a graph that indicates how much the National Debt will be reduced if Obama’s $1.5 trillion tax plan is adopted?”

More than if it’s not?

Joe The Plumber too.

September 20th, 2011
9:15 am

Funny thing about that win-win for the pretender in chief thing. Where is the democratic support? Why are the democrats running for cover to not be tied in with urkle? I think as dumb as some of them may be, they can see the sinking ship of this administration and want no part of it. I wonder what the excuses will be when he is sent packing next November. Oh yeah, it’ll be racism and W’s fault.

Normal

September 20th, 2011
9:16 am

from below…

I think the official end of DADT has peadawg confused and he doesn’t know which way to turn…

(ir)Rational

September 20th, 2011
9:16 am

Paul – And paying the same amount as a percentage makes it fair? I disagree, if I’m paying roughly $10,000 in taxes, and you’re paying roughly $150,000 in taxes, no matter how much you have left over in the end, I’m going to think you got a raw deal. I don’t care if that $150,000 represents 1% or 40% of your income.

Bosch

September 20th, 2011
9:16 am

Woodstock Mike,

There is a huge difference in what the corporate tax rate IS, and what corporations actually PAY.

JohnnyReb

September 20th, 2011
9:16 am

OK Jay, I’m throwing a penalty flag on this one; not that you will agree or care. Republicans want REVENUE increases; they do not want TAX RATE increases. Some of your readers may not understand there can be revenue increases without tax rate increases.

WOODSTOCK MIKE

September 20th, 2011
9:16 am

“Republicans like to speak in dire, almost apocalyptic tones about the impact of our growing national debt on future generations of Americans.”

Yeah, Republicans and almost every economist in the world, man, those ecnomomists don’t know anything. Maybe ask Greece or Italy what happens when can’t pay your debt? Wonder what they would say?

kayaker 71

September 20th, 2011
9:17 am

The same old song, different day. Tax the rich….. over and over again, like it is the answer to all of our deficit problems. Ignoring the real reason for the deficit problem, spending, will not be cured by increased taxes. It is only a temporary fix for a very long term problem. If spending is not brought under control, tax increases are doomed to fail. You just cannot keep taxing those that have to give it to those who do not. Eventually the goose dies and the golden eggs stop dropping. Then what?

Bosch

September 20th, 2011
9:17 am

“I don’t care if that $150,000 represents 1% or 40% of your income”

Well you should care. I’d bet most people would.

WOODSTOCK MIKE

September 20th, 2011
9:17 am

“There is a huge difference in what the corporate tax rate IS, and what corporations actually PAY.”

I didn’t say it, that was President Clinton…

Paul

September 20th, 2011
9:17 am

Woodstock Mike

Did Pres Clinton say whether or not the results would be neutral, would raise or lower revenue?

Regardless, Republicans will still oppose it. See, doing that would punish the smart, successful corporations who’ve found out how to pay only ten percent and would reward the dumb corporations who pay 35 percent. And Republicans do not punish success!

(ir)Rational

September 20th, 2011
9:18 am

Bosch – I already responded to you once on that, but since we’re carrying the debate over, I’ll copy and paste.

Bosch – Did I even allude to not raising taxes because they create jobs? No. I said, lets raise taxes on everyone by removing loopholes and deductions that allow roughly 50% of the country to get out of paying almost any income taxes, broaden the tax base, forcing everyone to have some ownership in the country, and then we can talk honestly about whether we have a revenue problem or a spending problem. My saying that there are people out there not paying anything in income taxes, and getting more from the government than they put in isn’t “horse bollocks” it is the truth. Yeah, we all benefit from government services, but if you take away entitlement programs, the guy down the street that pays $0 in income tax doesn’t benefit any less than I do. If you add in entitlement programs, and that is where he gets his income from, then he benefits a lot more than I do, and I pay taxes, yet his tax bill is still $0. So, let’s let EVERYONE pay something and then see how they feel about it.

Slobby Bobby

September 20th, 2011
9:18 am

To fix this mess we all are going to have to suffer. It’s going to hurt. It’s not going to be pleasant. Everyone needs to be affected. Let’s have the same percentage across the board as far as income taxes go. No “special” circumstances. Okay now, we need to cut spending. It’s going to hurt. It’s not going to be fun. It will put more people out of work. Entitlement needs to go away.

We all elected these morons, now we must all suffer for these bad decisions they have made.

Bosch

September 20th, 2011
9:18 am

“Some of your readers may not understand there can be revenue increases without tax rate increases.”

Reb,

Oh do tell, you’d think that after years of saying this, actual proof of this being true might have come along!

stands for decibels

September 20th, 2011
9:18 am

And that is different from all politicians everywhere how?

You are familiar with the term “wedge issue,” yes? Because once you accept that one side gins up outrage against imaginary demons–gays gettin’ hitched! partial birth abortion! War on Christmas!–in hopes of distracting from the bread-and-butter here-and-now issues that actually affect our whole lives, you have to acknowledge that the conservatives’ hold on power depends on finding new shiny baubles.

If you have anything comparable to hold up as an example from the DNC I’m all ears. I don’t think you’ll find such baubles, though.

WOODSTOCK MIKE

September 20th, 2011
9:19 am

“And of course, those spending cuts cannot come from the defense budget….they must come from everything else.”

So tell me, what happens when we cut spending from the defense budget, oh yeah, we lose thousands of jobs, that’s a great idea!!

Normal

September 20th, 2011
9:19 am

Republicans like to speak in dire, almost apocalyptic tones about the impact of our growing national debt on future generations of Americans.

They can say it with a straight face, too.

Republicans beware, The People aren’t that stupid…

Steve - B.

September 20th, 2011
9:19 am

(ir)Rational@9:18

Nice Post

TaxPayer

September 20th, 2011
9:19 am

I believe I read where Cocoa Puffs were going to be including them in specially marked packages for a limited time.

I don’t eat Cocoa Puffs so could you save one for me. Thks.

(ir)Rational

September 20th, 2011
9:20 am

Bosch – Honestly, I don’t care. I will never care, and I don’t see why so many people get so bent out of shape over that when the guy paying $150,000 is obviously paying so much more.

The Leg Lamp is a “major award”….

September 20th, 2011
9:20 am

“Looky” here, it seems the guilty culprit of the majority of disparity between the rich and poor is the capital gains tax rate.

Read it and weep, libs, it goes back to Carter cutting capital tax rates. Even Clinton did it.

But of course, the entire problem is because of the GOP. :roll:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/capital-gains-tax-rates-benefiting-wealthy-are-protected-by-both-parties/2011/09/06/gIQAdJmSLK_story.html

Joe Mama

September 20th, 2011
9:20 am

K71 — “Eventually the goose dies and the golden eggs stop dropping. Then what?”

I don’t think your goose has been laying any employment eggs for about ten years there, Champ.

WOODSTOCK MIKE

September 20th, 2011
9:20 am

“House Speaker John Boehner paints an equally grim picture, warning that “America’s debt crisis threatens our job growth, our national security and our children’s future. Simply put, our debt threatens our very way of life and, without significant changes, the future of our country.”

Funny, every single thing Boehner says is exactly correct. Who would deny any of it??

The Leg Lamp is a “major award”….

September 20th, 2011
9:21 am

Again, it seems the capital gains tax rate is the problem:

“The capital gains tax turns that idea on its head, capping the rate at 15 percent for long-term investments. As a result, anyone making more than $34,500 a year in wages and salary is taxed at a higher rate than a billionaire is taxed on untold millions in capital gains.”

The Leg Lamp is a “major award”….

September 20th, 2011
9:21 am

And more….

“Republicans have led the way in pressing for low capital gains tax rates, but they have been able to rely on a significant bloc of Democratic allies to prevent an increase and to protect the preferential treatment of money earned through investments over money earned through labor. “

(ir)Rational

September 20th, 2011
9:21 am

Come on Bosch – did someone hijack your name this morning? You’re typically smarter than this. Broadening the tax base, whether through creating new jobs, new corporations, or removing loopholes doesn’t raise taxes but it increases taxes.

Thanks Steve – B.

JohnnyReb

September 20th, 2011
9:21 am

Bosch – you are smarter than that. All it takes is unemployment to go down and revenues will increase.

Republicans and Democrats want revenue increases. The disagreement is how to accomplish.

Bosch

September 20th, 2011
9:21 am

“forcing everyone to have some ownership in the country”

But irRational, you are assuming that paying taxes is the ONLY way to have this ownership.

“So, let’s let EVERYONE pay something and then see how they feel about it”

Do you not understand that the more you take from the lowest income earners, the less purchasing power they have? This, would be detrimental even more so to our economy than raising taxes a few percentage points on millionaires.

Keep Up the Good Fight!

September 20th, 2011
9:22 am

Woodstock, I would agree with Clinton. I have no problem with reducing the overall tax rate if it is coupled with changing deductions, closing loopholes and effectively collectively more taxes fairly from a broader tax base. However the Republicans will not allow loopholes to be closed, deductions to be eliminated or tax credits to be terminated… cutting the nominal corporate tax rate therefore makes no sense and to cite it as “evidence” of a high tax rate is truly disingenuous.

Atlas Shrugging

September 20th, 2011
9:22 am

Same ole DEM-WIT and REP-UGNANT hate rehortic…blah, blah, blah blah..

Steve - B.

September 20th, 2011
9:22 am

Democrats are like the people who feed a feral cat, pretty soon there is 20 feral cats. They have good intentions but they just make the problem worse.

(ir)Rational

September 20th, 2011
9:23 am

Oh Taxpayer, I forgot, please, let’s bring back the Charleston. Those people knew how to truly dance, not just bounce around on the floor looking like idiots. :)

Bosch

September 20th, 2011
9:23 am

“All it takes is unemployment to go down and revenues will increase.”

But the problem is Reb, that magic theory hasn’t worked like that because of the amount of money our workers earn.

stands for decibels

September 20th, 2011
9:24 am

Democrats are like the people who feed a feral cat

Republicans are just plain feral.

Steve - B.

September 20th, 2011
9:24 am

The Democrats don’t want to get rid of deductions and tax credits either, they love social engineering.

Trotsky Radio

September 20th, 2011
9:24 am

It is important to note just how out of touch the Republicans are with the American people. Poll after poll has found overwhelming support for trying to reduce the debt through a combination of spending cuts and tax hikes, rather than through spending cuts alone.

Rep. Ryan of Wisconsin has an answer for that, a smug, Rand-ian answer:

Leaders are elected to lead, he says.

TaxPayer

September 20th, 2011
9:24 am

Leg,

I do believe President Obama said the jobs for Americans bill needs to be passed now. The Republicans are the ones that cannot make up their minds about the debt.

WOODSTOCK MIKE

September 20th, 2011
9:24 am

With everything going on in the world the Democrats number one issue is still, “we need to tax the rich more”!!! So funny!! Especially when this tax increase will have little effect on anything. Do Democrats believe that raising taxes on the rich will create 1 job? They are doing anything and everything to take the focus off of real issues like jobs and housing. Both are in the tank and if they don’t change in the next 12 months we have another president coming in. Who knows if that will change anything though? This one obviously “changed” nothing.

Paul

September 20th, 2011
9:25 am

(ir)Rational

“And paying the same amount as a percentage makes it fair? I disagree, if I’m paying roughly $10,000 in taxes, and you’re paying roughly $150,000 in taxes, no matter how much you have left over in the end, I’m going to think you got a raw deal. I don’t care if that $150,000 represents 1% or 40% of your income.”

Has to do with the idea that one dollar has greater worth to a person of moderate means than to a person of extraordinary means. Was in a department store this weekend. Saw a coat for a three-year old. $1,700. Would I pay that? Nope. Takes too much away from what I have for the necessities. Are there people who don’t even look at the price tag before they buy it? Sure. Because they know any price they pay in that store is not going to materially affect them.

Same is true with taxes. It’s the idea behind our progressive tax system. A dollar left over after taxes has more impact on the life of someone at the lower end than at the higher end.

Have you thought that someone making 50 million a year doesn’t think he’s getting a raw deal, but is quietly grateful he’s getting such a good deal?

Joe Mama

September 20th, 2011
9:25 am

Leg Lamp — “Where were you champions at when the majority of Americans were against Obamacare? Don’t come spewing numbers based on national health care in general, but Obamacare specifically.”

In other words, ‘cede the branding argument to the Republicans and roll over.’ Yeah. Right.

The fact is that the GOP has been lying about that program, what’s in it and what it does every step of the way — and so have *health insurers.* If you don’t want to talk about what health-care related polls actually *say,* then it’s clear that you simply want your party propaganda accepted as revealed wisdom and don’t actually want a discussion on this topic at all. The GOP doesn’t *have* a plan for dealing with health costs. All they have is a shrill, shrieking “DON’T LISTEN TO OBAMA.” That’s the best you can do.

And it has ever been thus for Republicans.

Jay

September 20th, 2011
9:25 am

“Funny, every single thing Boehner says is exactly correct. Who would deny any of it??

So the question, Woodstock, is whether the dire picture painted by Boehner justifies asking wealthier Americans to contribute more to avoid that disaster?

Adam

September 20th, 2011
9:25 am

Like I said – Obama has the narrative by the balls. It’s whether or not to tax the wealthy, NOT whatever other fight the GOP WANTS to have instead (and it looks like they would prefer to fight over the debt).

The Leg Lamp is a “major award”….

September 20th, 2011
9:26 am

TaxPayer
September 20th, 2011
9:24 am

Has the jobs bill Obama wants passed “now” been released?

(ir)Rational

September 20th, 2011
9:27 am

Bosch – I’m not buying that argument this morning. I firmly believe, the only way we’re ever going to solve the deficit problem in this country is to broaden the tax base. And yes, fiscally, the only way people have ownership in this country is through taxes. If your income tax rate is 0, then what does it matter to you if the government raises taxes? Your rate is still 0, or pretty close to it. If everyone pays something, then the government will be forced to actually try and figure out a way to solve the problem, not just put out talking points that pander to one group or another.

Good little liberal

September 20th, 2011
9:27 am

stands for decibels

Read your post from downstairs. (After you had seen that i had left)

So if I change my name, and perform your other list of demands, you will begin to respect me. LOL!!

When I want your respect, I’ll beat it out of you. Until then, rest assured that gaining your resect means that i have failed.

Normal

September 20th, 2011
9:27 am

(ir)Rational

September 20th, 2011
9:21 am

And John Beohner said jobs would be priority one and Christmas came in July this year. Taxes need to be raised, period.

Jefferson

September 20th, 2011
9:27 am

There are worse things than a few thousand more a year in taxes, just think if you didn’t have the money.

kayaker 71

September 20th, 2011
9:28 am

If you spend less, you have less need for increased tax revenue. Now is that so hard to figure out? You liberals make this out to be everything but what it really is….. a spending problem. Damn, it’s not so hard if you just look beyond your nose and put away your wealth envy. There are always going to be those that are better off than you. Everyone is not financially equal. Get over it.

Joe Mama

September 20th, 2011
9:28 am

Mike — “Who would deny any of it??”

Who here *has* denied it?

Good little liberal

September 20th, 2011
9:28 am

Jay

Of course the problem is that what is being proposed will do almost nothing toward correcting the problem.

But the proposal is the only hope of getting the clown re-elected.

ByteMe

September 20th, 2011
9:29 am

For those of you who think this is a one-poll wonder, here’s the rundown of EVERY poll asking this question for nearly the last year:

http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2011/09/tax-polls/

Average for raising taxes is around 65%.

JohnnyReb

September 20th, 2011
9:29 am

Bosch – even workers who in April get back all the fed income tax deducted contribute to revenue increases. Revenue is like cash flow. The more people paying fed income tax, the more revenue even without a rate change. The problem is, the government is spending more than the cash flow will support, thus the borrowing. Regarless of whose plan works, more people at work will raise revenues.

Paul

September 20th, 2011
9:29 am

Johnny Reb

“Some of your readers may not understand there can be revenue increases without tax rate increases.”

Is the result of this no increase or decrease in revenue?

If there’s an increase, aren’t Republicans really doing a back door tax on job creators?

Woodstock Mike

“So tell me, what happens when we cut spending from the defense budget, oh yeah, we lose thousands of jobs, that’s a great idea!!”

So if we subsidize/pay for/provide welfare to middle and upper middle income households to produce goods or services we don’t really need, it’s okay?

Adam

September 20th, 2011
9:29 am

JohnnyReb: Republicans want REVENUE increases; they do not want TAX RATE increases

They may have said this at one point, when they were winning the argument and could get away with not actually doing that. They have since walked back on this position.

carlosgvv

September 20th, 2011
9:30 am

Republicans have a very good reason to be frightened by any tax hike on the rich. Lobbyists for Big Business have made it crystal clear to Republican politicians that their huge campaign contributions for elections and re-elections will disappear at once if any tax hikes are passed. Keeping their seats in the House and Senate clearly tops reducing our national debt, creating more jobs, improving our infrastructure or anything else that these tax hikes would do to improve conditions for the average American.

Bosch

September 20th, 2011
9:31 am

” I firmly believe, the only way we’re ever going to solve the deficit problem in this country is to broaden the tax base. ”

And I don’t — our economy is consumer driven, and if you take away purchasing power from large percentage of the population, that takes away demand, that takes away jobs, and that takes away more revenue — and that puts more people in need of assistance which adds to the debt.

You can be all idealistic about things and talk of needing ownership and all that fun warm fuzzy stuff, but it’s not a valid argument.

The Leg Lamp is a “major award”….

September 20th, 2011
9:31 am

Joe Mama
September 20th, 2011
9:25 am

Your post is all passion, no substance. You simply don’t know what you’re talking about.

I’m deeply embedded in the healthcare industry and I can tell you as an absolute fact that many hospitals and surgeons are getting creamed when it comes to reimbursements. Many doctors are considering leaving their practices for academic positions. I know many surgeons who are delaying, or outright scrapping, plans to build surgery centers which offer more affordable costs. They don’t yet know the full scope of what the cost of Obamacare will demand of them.

Face reality – neither the republicans or democrats know the costs of implementing Obamacare, however, more and more people are beginning to realize what an albatross this will be for the healthcare industry.

Keep Up the Good Fight!

September 20th, 2011
9:31 am

GLL: When I want your respect, I’ll beat it out of you

Ahhh… the protests of violence.

poison pen

September 20th, 2011
9:32 am

stands for decibels

” only 28 percent of Americans embrace the GOP position of reducing the deficit through spending cuts alone”

when have liberal whackos given a good crap about what a majority of Americans actually believe about matters of actual importance? like 70% against Obamacare!

They wedge-issue their way through elections. Always have, always will.

Fixed your typos.

ByteMe

September 20th, 2011
9:32 am

Has the jobs bill Obama wants passed “now” been released?

Dude, the plan has been released. A “bill” is a legislative function, not an executive function.

Jay

September 20th, 2011
9:32 am

“Yeah, we all benefit from government services, but if you take away entitlement programs, the guy down the street that pays $0 in income tax doesn’t benefit any less than I do. If you add in entitlement programs, and that is where he gets his income from, then he benefits a lot more than I do, and I pay taxes, yet his tax bill is still $0. So, let’s let EVERYONE pay something and then see how they feel about it.”

(ir)Rational, that is deeply, fundamentally dishonest.

You complain about entitlement benefits being paid to your neighbor, yet you neatly ignore the fact that those entitlements are funded not through income taxes but through payroll taxes that your neighbor has been or is paying. You want to condemn him for the benefits, while being willfully blind to the fact that he has helped pay for those benefits.

stands for decibels

September 20th, 2011
9:32 am

So if I change my name, and perform your other list of demands

no, GLL. Just change your name to something neutral. It’d be a first step. You know, actually post here without pre-emptively insulting at least half of the readers every single time you post?

ty webb

September 20th, 2011
9:33 am

so one side doesn’t want taxes raised on anyone. the other side wants taxes raised only on a certain segment of society…hmmmmmm, Maybe they have a point with this whole “class warfare” thing.

poison pen

September 20th, 2011
9:33 am

Is this the 40th time this has been blogged this month?

Granny Godzilla

September 20th, 2011
9:33 am

Normal

Did you see that Speaker Boehner is getting a primary challenge from the right…..the gentleman, David Lewis, has released a video calling
the Speaker a Socialist!

stands for decibels

September 20th, 2011
9:34 am

Aaaand the “teh voterz hate teh eevul OBAMAKKKARE!” card is played.

bo-ring.

TaxPayer

September 20th, 2011
9:34 am

Has the jobs bill Obama wants passed “now” been released?

According to FOX, Obama’s jobs bill has been sent to Congress. Is that what you were asking.

(ir)Rational

September 20th, 2011
9:34 am

Paul – And what happens to the people that own that department store, or people like me that depend on these people that don’t look at price tags for our jobs, if suddenly we’re taxing away the income that made them feel they could buy those things? Raising taxes to try and make it “fair” has an impact on others besides just the ones that are having to pay more. Chances are, they’re not going to be paying more anyway, they’re just going to be having their tax lawyers find them newer and bigger loopholes. And I still don’t care about how much the guy makes, if he is paying more in taxes than I paid for my house, it is more than a little crazy.

Normal – If you read more than one isolated post you would see that I was just answering a question.

Paul

September 20th, 2011
9:34 am

kayaker 71

“You liberals make this out to be everything but what it really is….. a spending problem. ”

But Republicans cannot come up with cuts required to eliminate the deficit –

Are you aware of any who have? And I’m not talking about it taking years and decades -

Joe Mama

September 20th, 2011
9:36 am

K71 — “If you spend less, you have less need for increased tax revenue. Now is that so hard to figure out? You liberals make this out to be everything but what it really is….. a spending problem.”

Sorry, but that’s just not so. There is a lot of *outstanding* debt that reaches back many years. Both parties are responsible for it. A balanced budget *won’t* address the problem, because a balanced budget only services existing debt and doesn’t pay it off expeditiously.

We need a budget SURPLUS in order to get out from under the outstanding debt faster. And spending cuts alone won’t accomplish that. Revenue increases are key to accomplishing that.

When your household is in financial trouble, you look for ways to cut costs AND to bring more money into the house. Maybe Mom or Dad can take on a second job. Maybe Jimmy can get a paper route or cut grass to bring money in. Maybe Susie can do the same. And so it is with the government. We need to cut costs AND bring in more revenue.

Now, is that so hard to figure out?

Gordon

September 20th, 2011
9:36 am

The cuts in Obama’s plan come much later than the new taxes. We all know what will happen because we’ve seen it before – the taxes stay and the cuts disappear. There is no fundamental entitlement reform. It is just a big joke.

The man who was going to unite us all has been reduced to pitting high earners against low earners to try to get re-elected. Just pitiful.

Normal

September 20th, 2011
9:36 am

Granny,
No I didn’t. I’ll look it up.

TaxPayer

September 20th, 2011
9:36 am

The Leg Lamp complains about another blogger’s lack of substance in a post. Now that is priceless.

Adam

September 20th, 2011
9:36 am

(ir)Rational: If your income tax rate is 0, then what does it matter to you if the government raises taxes? Your rate is still 0, or pretty close to it.

There’s only one problem with this, and that is that it leads into arguments such as “I am pretty good being in poverty because I don’t pay taxes. I won’t take this job that will pay me 10 times more because if I do, my taxes will go up.” Who in their right mind would actually make that argument to themselves or anyone else in a real world situation?

Some people are too poor to pay taxes. We should accept that. If you want to define how poor is too poor, fine. But to say even the poorest person must pay something is ridiculous, to me. I know you don’t like the 50% paying no income taxes number, but what if it was 25%? 15%? 10%?

The Leg Lamp is a “major award”….

September 20th, 2011
9:38 am

Jay
September 20th, 2011
9:25 am

You seem to be embracing Obama’s plan even though the plan hasn’t been released. Perhaps you’re just agreeing with the concept.

Just how should “the rich” be taxed more? A higher income tax rate? Increasing the captial gains tax? Closing loopholes? Are you like most libs and will choose “all of the above”? Would you recommend deep spending cuts to go along with this tax increase? Just how much revenue would this generate and what will be the effect on the national debt?

We can all point fingers back and forth and make wild accusations, but what are the specifics to relieve us from this crushing debt? No party has the answer, and based on the posts here, neither does anyone else.

Granny Godzilla

September 20th, 2011
9:38 am

Gordon

“The man who was going to unite us all has been reduced to pitting high earners against low earners to try to get re-elected”

How incredibly naive.

Like wealth redistribution to the higher income levels started last week.

The Leg Lamp is a “major award”….

September 20th, 2011
9:39 am

TaxPayer
September 20th, 2011
9:36 am

I know you’re way to partial, but was there anything of substance in his post or just more partisan accusations.

If you know anything about the healthcare industry, please share your insights. I’ll be waiting.

Paul

September 20th, 2011
9:39 am

irRational 9:34

I believe that’s the fallacy of taking a modest proposal (increase marginal rate to what it was a few years ago or ensuring tax rate equity) and going waaaaay extreme with the ‘what ifs.’

No where in those proposals is there a significant enough change that someone making a million a year is going to say “oh my gosh…… I have a few thousand less… life as I know it has ended…”

It’s a constant challenge to keep theory and examples grounded in reality.

Adam

September 20th, 2011
9:39 am

Gordon: The cuts in Obama’s plan come much later than the new taxes.

That’s good fiscal policy, according to major economic advisers and advisory boards in this country and OTHERS who have already tried the austerity thing and determined that it makes things worse.

poison pen

September 20th, 2011
9:39 am

carlosgvv

” Republicans have a very good reason to be frightened by any tax hike on the rich. Lobbyists for Big Business have made it crystal clear to Republican politicians that their huge campaign contributions for elections and re-elections will disappear at once if any tax hikes are passed. Keeping their seats in the House and Senate clearly tops reducing our national debt, creating more jobs, improving our infrastructure or anything else that these tax hikes would do to improve conditions for the average American.”

Carlos, For the umpteenth time, where in the hell do you think the Democrats get their money???? Obama has almost 1 Billion for next years election, did you give it to him???

Please take the blinders off.

HDB

September 20th, 2011
9:40 am

Steve – B.
September 20th, 2011
9:24 am
“The Democrats don’t want to get rid of deductions and tax credits either, they love social engineering”

You must have forgotten that the Earned Income Tax Credit was a REPUBLICAN idea (Ronald Reagan)….or that universal health care was first envisioned by Republicans (Theodore Roosevelt)! Republicans also practice social engineering via the tax code; they focus on maintaining the wealth of their constituents while simultaneously ignorning the needs of the nation!!’

1811/0311

September 20th, 2011
9:40 am

There is one way to do this ………………………. the FAIR TAX !