Hugely profitable companies pay more to CEOs than to Uncle Sam

Now isn’t this special?

According to the Institute of Policy Studies, a liberal think tank, 25 of the country’s 100 highest-paid CEOs were paid more personally than their corporations paid in federal income taxes last year. (The corporations in question made, on average, a profit of $1.9 billion each.)

If you believe many conservatives, that’s pretty amazing. After all, corporate taxes in America are allegedly sky high, so the fact that so many profitable companies somehow managed to pay their CEOs even more than they paid Uncle Sam — well, that’s really saying something.

“In 2009, we calculate, major corporate CEOs took home 263 times the pay of America’s average workers. Last year, this gap leaped to 325-to-1. Among the nation’s top firms, the S&P 500, CEO pay last year averaged $10,762,304, up 27.8 percent over 2009.”

Average CEO pay among the S&P 500 up 28 percent in a year. Tough times. And again, that’s not the high-performers, the CEOs who did something special. The average CEO got a 28 percent pay hike last year.

And how did those companies end up paying so little in taxes? The IJS helps explain:

“No tax-dodging strategy over recent years has filled U.S. corporate coffers more rapidly than the offshoring of corporate activity to tax havens in low- or no-tax jurisdictions. Eighteen of the 25 firms highlighted in this study operate subsidiaries in offshore tax haven jurisdictions. The firms, all combined, had 556 tax haven subsidiaries last year….

How do tax havens work? One common corporate accounting technique, “transfer pricing,” helps corporations shift profits offshore. Technology and drug companies regularly open shell companies — in tax havens — that hold their intellectual property rights. They then charge their U.S.-based operations inflated amounts for the use of these rights. These inflated costs get deducted off U.S. taxes. The overseas tax haven profits go un- or lightly taxed. Adding insult to injury, a coalition of corporate tax dodgers is now asking Congress to reward their tax avoidance with a deeply discounted 5 percent tax rate if they bring these funds back home where many of them started.”

These are American companies — corporations that are based here in the United States because they know that locating here maximizes their profits. They want all of the advantages of being American, meanwhile pretending that a lot of their operations are located on some little Caribbean island.

Personally, I think I’m going to open an offshore branch of Jay Bookman and have my paycheck sent there. I mean, why not? I’m a person, corporations are persons. If they can do it, I can do it too, right?

Well, there is one difference. As the IJS notes,”the 25 firms highlighted in this study spent a combined total of more than $150 million on lobbying and campaign contributions last year.” In contrast, I didn’t spend a dime.

In fact, 20 of the companies in question spent more money “lobbying lawmakers than they paid in corporate taxes. Eighteen gave more to the political campaigns of their favorite candidates than they paid to the IRS in taxes.”

You get what you pay for.

– Jay Bookman

982 comments Add your comment

Guy Incognito

August 31st, 2011
7:54 am

Like Birkshire Hathaway (SP?)? Buffet wants people to pay more taxes, and yet his company is at least 10 years behind in paying its tax bills

stands for decibels

August 31st, 2011
7:54 am

Why, you make it sound like this Republic has become corrupt, or something.

stands for decibels

August 31st, 2011
7:55 am

The average CEO got a 28 percent pay hike last year.

but they give so much, and ask so little of us!

Tommy Maddox

August 31st, 2011
7:57 am

What has a CEO asked you to do lately?

Granny Godzilla

August 31st, 2011
7:57 am

Heard this on NPR this morning…..

The GOP blocked a bill to close the “offshore loophole” last September
wonder why?

stands for decibels

August 31st, 2011
8:01 am

What has a CEO asked you to do lately?

You mean other than sacrificing my future financial security so that he can continue to enjoy a low tax rate?

And focusing this country on a non-existent “debt crisis” rather than getting its citizens working again?

And buying off a Supreme Court that returns the favor by ruling their way virtually every time their power is challenged?

Actually, this is going to take awhile…

stands for decibels

August 31st, 2011
8:04 am

Jay, how’s about including a nice chart with your piece? You know how the right wingers la-la-love it when you have a chart.

http://defendingthepublicgood.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/Multiplier-of-CEO-pay4.png

Jay

August 31st, 2011
8:04 am

Hey Tommy, now that you’re here:

Over the weekend you posted a little football-related note, announcing that “Uh oh – Coons & Steelers coming on!”

What exactly did you mean by that, sir?

stands for decibels

August 31st, 2011
8:06 am

By the way, that chart @ 8.04 comes from this exceptionally well-thought-out piece on “American Exceptionalism” that should be force-fed to every man, woman, and child in this country.

http://defendingthepublicgood.org/2011/04/18/the-real-american-exceptionalism/

And, duh, obviously not all or even most CEOs are evil people, so spare Jay/me that. It’s just that they’ve bought themselves a protected status, and that needs to end.

Granny Godzilla

August 31st, 2011
8:07 am

What has a CEO asked you to do lately?

One asked me to update a spreadsheet another wanted horseradish sauce for his roast beast and another needed directions to memorial drive…

seriously …. all in the last 24 hours

carlosgvv

August 31st, 2011
8:11 am

The Republican Party has been fighting for years now to make America a 100% laissez faire place for Big Business to do as they please with little or no regulation. It’s no accident that these offshoring activities are taking place with the full approval of the bought and paid for Republicans. It’s also clear that the Republicans think so little of the intelligence level of their electorate that they are sure the continuing of these offshoring activities will in no way affect their getting elected and re-elected. Unfortunately, that seems all too true.

JKL2

August 31st, 2011
8:14 am

This one I think we can all pretty much agree on. CEO’s are grossly overpaid and many times, so much so, that it negatively effects, if not bankrupts, the company. Board of directors vote each other obscene golden parachutes and then screw over the workers. Socialism isn’t the answer, but a little common sense instead of straight out greed in the boardroom would go along way.

Call it like it is

August 31st, 2011
8:16 am

“Uh oh – Coons & Steelers coming on!”
More then likely he was talking about the Saints, who also are call coon a**, dont thing it was meant the way you thinking, at least I hope its not.

JKL2

August 31st, 2011
8:17 am

carlosgvv- It’s no accident that these offshoring activities are taking place with the full approval of the bought and paid for Republicans

Goldman-Sachs says, “What?”. It’s obviously the Repoublicans fault because we know there are no Democrats running major corporations in the US…

Adam

August 31st, 2011
8:18 am

In fact, 20 of the companies in question spent more money “lobbying lawmakers than they paid in corporate taxes.

Seems like if they were responsible businessmen, they wouldn’t go to the trouble. The cost of not lobbying and just paying the taxes would be less than lobbying AND paying the taxes.

ty webb

August 31st, 2011
8:18 am

“liberal think tank”

isn’t that an oxymoron?

Overtaxed and SO Unprosperous and I had to sell my Mansion for half Price!

August 31st, 2011
8:19 am

This is the reason why we simply must get the 50 percent that paid no income taxes last year to cough it up! Any good young Republican has enough brain cells left to know that! Our Uncle Sam has bills to pay and it just would not be fit or proper to ask either the job-creating CEO’s or the corporations to help. I hope that is not what you are implying, Jay. I mean, really!

Jay

August 31st, 2011
8:19 am

Nice try, Call It. But no cigar.

The game in question pitted the Atlanta Falcons vs. the Pittsburgh Steelers.

Granny Godzilla

August 31st, 2011
8:20 am

JKL2

Can you name some “democratic” CEO’s that are off shoring?

Adam

August 31st, 2011
8:20 am

JKL2: CEO’s are grossly overpaid and many times, so much so, that it negatively effects, if not bankrupts, the company.

Please cite a major company this has happened to in the past 10 years. Bonus points if it happened during the recession.

Keep Up the Good Fight!

August 31st, 2011
8:21 am

Someone call me an ambulence…… I must be very ill. I agree with most of JKL2’s post.

stands for decibels

August 31st, 2011
8:21 am

> More then likely he was talking about the Saints, who also are call coon a**,

>>The game in question pitted the Atlanta Falcons vs. the Pittsburgh Steelers.

I too was hoping otherwise, but the Saints didn’t play until the next day…

http://www.nfl.com/schedules

Call it like it is

August 31st, 2011
8:21 am

Nice try, Call It. But no cigar

If he wasnt talking about the saints, then ban him! Enough said.

Normal

August 31st, 2011
8:22 am

When the Falcons were started there was a racist joke with the punchline “Foul-C..Ns” It was pitiful….

stands for decibels

August 31st, 2011
8:22 am

maybe he meant “honey badgers”?

stands for decibels

August 31st, 2011
8:22 am

Falcons were started there was a racist joke with the punchline “Foul-C..Ns”

omg.

carlosgvv

August 31st, 2011
8:23 am

JKL2

Actually, when I accuse the Republicans of being owned by Big Business, most conservatives respond by saying the Democrats are owned by the Unions. Whichever it is, it’s clear nothing good for the American people is coming from these cozy arrangements.

Overtaxed and SO Unprosperous and I had to sell my Mansion for half Price!

August 31st, 2011
8:26 am

You get what you pay for.

I should certainly hope that to be the case but have you looked at what a Republican Congressperson goes for these days! It’s simply outrageous and it’s not even tax deductible, yet. There are clear signs of a bubble forming here and I’ll be so excited to see it burst so I can pick up some politicians on the cheap once again.

Call it like it is

August 31st, 2011
8:26 am

Can you name some “democratic” CEO’s that are off shoring?

Warren Buffett.

Thomas

August 31st, 2011
8:26 am

Anne Cox Chambers
Net Worth $13.4 B

COX ENTERPRISES, INC. & SUBSIDIARIES, Petitioner v.
COMMISSIONER OF INTERNAL REVENUE, Respondent

These two items must want Jay to want to a) quit b) ignore or c) you guessed it- ignore and work for the company

Without hyprocrisy what would we do.

Jay

August 31st, 2011
8:27 am

Tommy? You out there?

carlosgvv

August 31st, 2011
8:28 am

Hey Jay, now that you’re here. On one of my earlier posts, you responded and then added “clean sheets”. What exactly did you mean by THAT, sir?

stands for decibels

August 31st, 2011
8:28 am

I agree with most of JKL2’s post.

as do I.

I would like to know how one achieves the objective of “common sense,” however, absent aggressive, far-reaching legislation. JKL2 says he doesn’t want “socialism”. But dang near anything even mildly progressive to rectify this state of affairs, that’s been proposed/debated in the past few years, has been called “socialist” by the GOP, or at least by a lot of their high-profile media supporters, and I’m assuming JKL2 agrees with such classification.

So how do you rectify this? Ask the boards of directors nicely?

@@

August 31st, 2011
8:29 am

Among the nation’s top firms, the S&P 500, CEO pay last year averaged $10,762,304, up 27.8 percent over 2009.”

I thought Obama was gonna take care of that.

Since 2009, GE has closed more than 25 manufacturing plants in the US and slashed thousands of jobs, according to the United Electrical, Radio and Machine Workers of America. While GE has laid off at least 10,000 workers in the US, it has created more than 30,000 jobs in India over the past decade. The administration’s job czar runs a company that employs more workers overseas than it does in the US.
During his recent eight-hour floor speech on inequality, tax cuts for the ultra-wealthy, and corporate greed, Senator Bernie Sanders (I-VT) cited an investors’ meeting on December 6, 2002 at which Immelt said, “When I am talking to GE managers, I talk China, China, China, China, China. You need to be there. You need to change the way people talk about it and how they get there. I am a nut on China. Outsourcing from China is going to grow to $5 billion. We are building a tech center in China. Every discussion today has to center on China. The cost basis is extremely attractive.”

Since Immelt became CEO in 2001, he has been paid $90 million in salary, cash, and pension benefits, and like most multi-nationals, GE just posted better-than-expected fourth quarter and 2010 profits.

Joe the Plutocrat

August 31st, 2011
8:30 am

guy, I am not a Berkshire stockholder, but I believe Buffet takes a $100,000.00 (or $1 million) annual salary as CEO, which means if Berkshire pays no taxes, then it is in this group. that said, Buffet does not dispute that he takes full advantage of every loophole in the tax code (specifically the 15% “capital gains”). he merely suggested that perhaps we need to tax investment income at the same rate we tax earned income. in a very semantic way, it makes you think about the word “earned” (was I paid to “produce” something, or was I paid to simply shuffle paper?). does anyone know the rate at which lottery players or legal gamblers are taxed on their winnings?

stands for decibels

August 31st, 2011
8:31 am

On one of my earlier posts, you responded and then added “clean sheets”.

ha ha ha.

I think this dates back to a practice over at Atrios–whenever a discussion thread had become so intense that the participants might not notice that a new post was up, someone would call “sheets”, as in, clean sheets.

It probably pre-dates Atrios, that’s just where I first saw it. Maybe Jay saw it elsewhere, but I know he used to link to that joint.

Brosephus

August 31st, 2011
8:31 am

Normal

I had never heard that one until now. Glad I had not heard that because my first instinct would have been to try to rip out the vocal chords of whomever said that in my presence. Now, since I have much better control over my inner ABM, I’d just shake my head and say “Bless their Heart!!!”

on topic:

Heard about this listening to CNN this morning. I’m not surprised by this at all. I also won’t be surprised by the number of people who come here later on to defend this. I’m expecting to see mass deflection and diversion (D&D) on this thread all day. The attempt at D&D will have to be much better than those weak attempts at 8:17 & 8:18. Those wouldn’t even make the finals at the D&D Olympics.

Show Low Here We Come

August 31st, 2011
8:32 am

jay – i think you have assured that tommy (lester) maddox won’t be heard from again today.

AmVet - Read my lips. No new Texans!

August 31st, 2011
8:32 am

From sfd’s outstanding, if not damning, link:

http://defendingthepublicgood.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/Multiplier-of-CEO-pay4.png

http://defendingthepublicgood.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/Percent-of-income-received-by-top-4.png

Jay, you know I call out the racists and bigots here regularly.

But the term Coons as it relates to the Falcons is not what it seems. It is a (widely?) used term of endearment and is a take off on the team’s very name – Falcoons vs. Falcons. I use it from time to time and it does NOT, at least for me, have ANY melanin-related undertones.

It is akin to me calling the Minnesota Twins the Twinkies, though that is a bit more derisive, it is not a slur against my gay brethren. Both are just kinda funny…

Adam

August 31st, 2011
8:32 am

@@: I thought Obama was gonna take care of that.

Yeah, our anti-business president was supposed to PUNISH CEOs for their greed.

Oh-well. Who is anti-business?

Butch Cassidy

August 31st, 2011
8:32 am

I think I see a bumper sticker in this ” How can I pay my CEO an obscene salary if the Governement keeps wanting me to pay taxes?” Anyone other than Obama in 2012.

Jay

August 31st, 2011
8:32 am

Thomas, Mrs. Chambers owns the company, which is privately held, not publicly traded.

You do raise an interesting point, however.

Although I haven’t seen the data and don’t know how it could be obtained, since privately held companies don’t release it, it would be interesting to compare CEO pay in privately held companies with that in publicly traded companies.

Do privately held companies — where the people setting CEO salary are actually the owners of the company, which means it’s coming out of their pockets — pay CEOs less than publicly held companies, where owners have no direct say whatsoever in CEO pay?

jt

August 31st, 2011
8:34 am

Corrupt our government is.Glad Bookman is admitting it.
.
Who in their right mind would want this gang of 520 to have MORE money.?
.
Progressives…..That’s who.
.
..right or left………………progressives are….mentally challenged.

Mary Elizabeth

August 31st, 2011
8:34 am

I have read that this type of buying of government officials’ votes to serve the profit motives of corporations (especially for their top CEOs) is called an “echo chamber.” It is all part of a “I’ll scratch your back if you scratch mine” circular process, enclosed within that echo chamber to serve those relative few. The “game” being played serves those playing it well, but not the majority of the American people.

Yet, the propaganda coming from those well-served in this corporate profit game has been so sharply produced that the average American has supported these people, against their own best interests, in the name of “these top Americans are the smartest, richest, and most industrious of us all, therefore they deserve all they get.”

By not paying appropriate taxes into the overall American system, these top 2% of Americans are having their desired effect of shrinking the American government which, in turn, forces cuts in government programs such as Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, public education, police and fire services, national and state parks, all of which enrich and elevate the lives of average Americans.

In addition, by their sharp propaganda of “government is bad” (that they have well paid for), they have been successful in dividing average American into two camps – the supporters of the public vs. the private sectors. It is time for all average Americans to realize what has been happening that has been working against their interests. Hopefully, they will soon realize that the government is, in fact, not bad – it IS the people – and that the government can serve the interests of the majority of average Americans, as it did so well immediately following WWII, to raise so many into the middle class.

Brosephus

August 31st, 2011
8:34 am

does anyone know the rate at which lottery players or legal gamblers are taxed on their winnings?

I think lottery winners are taxed at 41% or something near there. When you take the lump sum, you lose just about half to taxes.

TM

August 31st, 2011
8:34 am

Can you disclose how much money the CEO for Cox Enterprises is paid? or the amount of taxes Cox Enterprises paid?

Jay

August 31st, 2011
8:35 am

Carlos, I explained the derivation of that immediately after your question. Go take a look.

Overtaxed and SO Unprosperous and I had to sell my Mansion for half Price!

August 31st, 2011
8:36 am

Not to worry. Now that those corporations pay no taxes the jobs will come flooding back into the states just like the Republicans promised. Everyone knows that it is taxes that keep the jobs away.

godless heathen

August 31st, 2011
8:36 am

If we lowered our corporate tax rates then the corporations wouldn’t have to go the off-shore route.

Did anyone see what M. Vick is going to get paid? Like 100 million + endorsements. How many more times the wage of a hotdog vendor at the stadium? 100 million / 5 equals $20 mil per year, divided by 20 games = $1 million per game. Hotdog hawker, what $200 per game? That would be a factor of 50,000. No outrage over that?

Jimmy62

August 31st, 2011
8:37 am

Maybe if corporate tax rates were lower, they wouldn’t have so much incentive to locate elsewhere. And somehow the concept that higher taxes on companies just mean they pass it down as higher prices on their goods and services has never gotten through your head.

Jay

August 31st, 2011
8:37 am

TM, I cannot. Again, it is a privately held, family-owned company. Publicly traded companies have to release such data to stockholders, investors, etc. That is not an issue with privately held companies.

Granny Godzilla

August 31st, 2011
8:37 am

Call it like it is

While I read that Mr. Buffett has money “off shore”, I can’t find that he has off shored jobs…..Please provide a link to you info.

JKL2

August 31st, 2011
8:38 am

Granny- Warren Buffet evidently. I’m sure you could google it.

Adam- Please cite a major company this has happened to in the past 10 years.

Adelphi- Paid the Rigas over $1B in 5 years. Probably why they’re in jail.

Would love to stay and talk but have way too much going on today to play. Have a good one everybody.

Adam

August 31st, 2011
8:39 am

If we lowered our corporate tax rates then the corporations wouldn’t have to go the off-shore route.

Maybe if corporate tax rates were lower, they wouldn’t have so much incentive to locate elsewhere.

AHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAA. The stoopid, it burns!

Jimmy62

August 31st, 2011
8:40 am

“does anyone know the rate at which lottery players or legal gamblers are taxed on their winnings?”

For gamblers it depends. If you are a poker player who meets the requirements to call it your profession, then you are taxes as if it was a normal salary. If you’re just a dude going to Vegas for the weekend, it gets taxes more like lottery winnings. Of course they make it hard for the pros, they have to give a lump sum for their winnings, but itemize losses. So if you won $100k, but lost $80k, you better make sure you kept receipts for every single loss.

Butch Cassidy

August 31st, 2011
8:40 am

godless heathen – ” No outrage over that?”

When atheltes and actors start complaining about taxes being to high and hiding their profits offshore while cutting employees in the hundreds of thousands and justify it under the guise of profit margins, then yes I will be outraged. To my knowledge, Neither Michael Vick or Johnny Depp have contributed to the unemployment situation in this country.

stevie ray

August 31st, 2011
8:41 am

Jay, I never quite understood the fascination regarding executive pay. It’s not like there is anything Washington or the taxpayers can do that will pass the court sniff test. Arguably, it would simply push corporate headquarters offshore and represent the most significant message that capitalism as we know it is fading fast. The issue makes nice sound bites but is truly irrelevant since other than shareholders, no control exists over same.

I do think that a change in the tax law to tax a portion of offshore corporate cash holdings or otherwise offer favorable treatment for putting these significant assets to work in the US. Uncertainty and miniscule interest rate market (why banks aren’t putting money out except to US government) impede shareholders from pushing for domestic investment. Also, if you owned a business, would you want the headache of overpaying union members who are holding on desperately to a bygone era?

Adam

August 31st, 2011
8:41 am

Wait, looks like that’s the Repulican talking point… CEOs get paid more than the companies are taxed and want things to be offshore because they are taxed too much!

Granny Godzilla

August 31st, 2011
8:42 am

JKL2

Nope, doesn’t look like it….

Perhaps with a little effort on your part you could back up your wild
guess.

@@

August 31st, 2011
8:42 am

Brosephus

August 31st, 2011
8:43 am

If we lowered our corporate tax rates then the corporations wouldn’t have to go the off-shore route.

I doubt it. If we zeroed out taxes, corporations would still off-shore because they can still get low tax rates AND cheaper labor in other countries. Until we make it cost them more to ship that cheap sh*t here as opposed to just making it here, they will continue to off-shore. Taxes are only a part of it, and definitely not the major part.

Citizen of the World

August 31st, 2011
8:43 am

From Living in the Wasteland of the Free by Iris Dement:

We got CEOs makin’ 300 times the worker’s pay
But they’ll fight like hell to keep from raisin’ the minimum wage
And if you dont like it, mister, they’ll ship your job to some third-world country ‘cross the sea
Livin’ in the Wasteland of the Free

They also fight like hell to keep from paying personal and corporate taxes.
They fight like hell to keep from complying with environmental regulations and worker protections.

My theory is that corporate CEOs are paid so much to ensure that their consciences are thoroughly and completely bought.

Joe the Plutocrat

August 31st, 2011
8:43 am

JB, I am sure the public/private issue has been discussed at a higher level, but here is my take. the transparency required in a public company is problably rooted in the mythical idea that shareholders (individual investors) have rights. that is to say, these laws exist so the gub-ment can create the illusion (or further the delusion) that it cares about investors or it exists to “serve and protect” citizens. I would guess that there is actually MORE (internal) transparency in private companies, but only because (literally) they enjoy a level of “privacy” not offered public companies. the CEO of a private company wants to keep productive, talented workers; the CEOs of many public companies HAVE to hire/keep unproductive, untalented workers in order to satisfy this regulation or that. why do you think companies send so many jobs overseas? and I am not saying that complete laissez faire capitalism is the answer, but I do think it works much better in a private company. in addition, this is one of the debates/wrestling matches any entreprenuer has when he/she considers taking a company public or keeping it private.

stands for decibels

August 31st, 2011
8:43 am

Dumb question, but why aren’t lottery winnings (or, frankly, any gambling winnings) considered capital gains by Uncle Sam and taxed accordingly?

Not that I especially care, just curious, since it seems like a very specific investment/gain situation to me.

AmVet - Read my lips. No new Texans!

August 31st, 2011
8:43 am

While I read that Mr. Buffett has money “off shore”, I can’t find that he has off shored jobs…..Please provide a link to you info.

GG, you honestly know these parrots know of what they speak?

Puhleeze.

The reality averse, self-destructive neo-cons just pull ____ out of their _____ and think it is the equivalent of intelligent discourse.

But, of course, YOU OR I can always Google it. (head slap and eye roll)

[...] …Report: CEOs Rewarded for Avoiding TaxesTheStreet.comStudy: CEO pay tops tax billPoliticoHugely profitable companies pay more to CEOs than to Uncle SamAtlanta Journal Constitution (blog)Kansas City Star -Montreal Gazette -Denver Postall 94 [...]

Overtaxed and SO Unprosperous and I had to sell my Mansion for half Price!

August 31st, 2011
8:43 am

If only the American dreamer would consent to lowering the tax rate on these corporations to something less than a negative number! Why! Why will you people not lower the corporate tax rates more so jobs can come back!!!

Adam

August 31st, 2011
8:43 am

stevie ray: Also, if you owned a business, would you want the headache of overpaying union members who are holding on desperately to a bygone era?

I do own a business, and I wish I could “hire” people for free to do the work for me. Pesky “regulations” are in the way. Slave labor laws are hampering my business and profits!

Jay

August 31st, 2011
8:44 am

Jimmy, if the tax were so easily passed on, corporations wouldn’t be going through such contortions and hiring expensive lobbyists to avoid them, now would they?

Thomas

August 31st, 2011
8:45 am

Do privately held companies — where the people setting CEO salary are actually the owners of the company, which means it’s coming out of their pockets — pay CEOs less than publicly held companies, where owners have no direct say whatsoever in CEO pay?

I am a firm believer that if you built it- you deserve the comp. There are many reasons I believe the public markets are broken. A large piece of the problem is exec comp and Wall Street’s infatuation with CEO- (nardelli). Wall Street needs to take a page from Billy Ball and limit CEO pay.

My issue is that you and the “media” give a pass to the largest tax scam in the country which is the elimination of estate tax. Ms. Chambers had an issue (as you can see from the above cite) and Buffett paid attorneys millions to design a structure to eliminate billions of estate tax and income tax (charitable contributions). It is like Cheech preaching the issue of smoking.

.

El Jefe

August 31st, 2011
8:46 am

Yeah, maybe GE is using too many “tax dodges” because the tax rate is too high. Imagine, GE paying no corporate taxes, but still gets appointed to Obama’s Jobs Council. GE with more cash than the US government is in charge of jobs.

Brosephus

August 31st, 2011
8:47 am

Dumb question, but why aren’t lottery winnings (or, frankly, any gambling winnings) considered capital gains by Uncle Sam and taxed accordingly?

The winners don’t band together to lobby Congress in the same fashion that the winners in capital gains have done. In DC, money talks.

Jay

August 31st, 2011
8:48 am

@@, I would agree with you on that. It’s over the top and deeply insulting to say that Republicans didn’t care that 3,000 Americans had died. That’s clearly untrue.

On the other hand, that analysis of the political uses to which 9/11 was put is pretty accurate.

Talking Head

August 31st, 2011
8:48 am

Whaa whaa whaa…Jay, why don’t you write a column on Michael Vick getting a $100 million contract or Will Ferrell getting $30 million for one film next.

RAMBLE ON!!!

August 31st, 2011
8:48 am

You can “work” for Obama and not pay any taxes like Jeffery Immelt of G.E.

godless heathen

August 31st, 2011
8:48 am

The point missed on those of the socialist bent, is that M Vick and the Hot Dog hawker are paid according to what the Eagles think their worth is to the operation. Unless you are a part owner of the Eagles, what’s it to you? Same as what the CEO of a Fortune 500 company takes home.

Now does the tax code need fixing? Certainly. But I don’t see any politicians with the spine to tackle the system. Money talks and BS walks.

Butch Cassidy

August 31st, 2011
8:49 am

Maybe of we eliminate all taxes on corporations, eliminate the minimum wage and repeal the child labor laws, corporations might then have enough “certainty” to begin hiring again. Hey, another bumper sticker – “Give me your 6 year old 7 days a week, and I’ll give you a job”

Adam

August 31st, 2011
8:49 am

El Jefe: Imagine, GE paying no corporate taxes, but still gets appointed to Obama’s Jobs Council.

Yep, since corporations are people too, GE, the corporation, was appointed to the Jobs Council.

Jay

August 31st, 2011
8:50 am

El Jefe, can you explain the conservative fixation on GE?

It’s almost as if it’s OK for corporations run by conservative Republicans to offshore jobs and use tax dodges, but somehow deeply offensive and wrong for a company run by a Democrat to do so?

Misty Fyed

August 31st, 2011
8:50 am

I have to challenge the effectiveness of these CEOs. I mean they have to spend mega bucks to lobbyists to keep a loophole available to reduce their income tax. About 46% of Americans are able to pay no income tax at all and never spend a dime on lobbyists.

Adam

August 31st, 2011
8:51 am

Oh wait, the Republican talking point is all about movie actors and athletes getting high pay. Wow, you guys really are dense and will repeat whatever you hear on talk radio in the morning.

Butch Cassidy

August 31st, 2011
8:51 am

Talking Head – “why don’t you write a column on Michael Vick getting a $100 million contract or Will Ferrell getting $30 million for one film next.”

Because they don’t lobby Congress screaming poverty while eliminating hundreds of thousands of workers in favor of slave labor in a third world country while crying over the corporate tax rate.

Good Little Liberal

August 31st, 2011
8:51 am

Somebody get a rope. We need to get rid of those CEOs and let liberals with no experiance run our companies. After all, it’s worked so wee in the White House.

godless heathen

August 31st, 2011
8:51 am

“To my knowledge, Neither Michael Vick or Johnny Depp have contributed to the unemployment situation in this country.”

But they are hoarding the money!!!!!!! They could be hiring people, putting people to work, and paying more taxes!!!!!!!!!! Instead they are just piling it up in the bank!!!!!

stevie ray

August 31st, 2011
8:52 am

Thanks for the response Adam. I’m not sure I understand your response relative to “free labor” unless sarcastic. I’m sure like most employers, you want your employees to be motivated. Average weekly wages for union employees is around $900 vs $725 for non-union. I doubt this is fully loaded for benefits, pensions and other post-retirement commitments made to unions by public and private entities who can no longer afford (and possibly never could afford) to honor commitments.

Adam

August 31st, 2011
8:53 am

Misty Fyed: About 46% of Americans are able to pay no income tax at all and never spend a dime on lobbyists.

And those people are just living the life! Why, they have refrigerators! I bet we could make up the deficit just by taking away their refrigerators! What did they do to earn those!?!? Pump out babies?!?!

Butch Cassidy

August 31st, 2011
8:53 am

godless heathen – “But they are hoarding the money!!!!!!! They could be hiring people, putting people to work, and paying more taxes!!!!!!!!!! Instead they are just piling it up in the bank!!!!!”

True, but that’s the extent of the damage. The same can’t be said for CEO’s or Corporations.

godless heathen

August 31st, 2011
8:54 am

And the tired ass liberal talking point is the wage factor of the CEO vs. the lowest paid worker. The M. Vick example is just an illustration of how absurd that argument is.

lovelyliz

August 31st, 2011
8:55 am

But Nobody Pays That
U.S. Business Has High Tax Rates but Pays Less
By DAVID KOCIENIEWSKI
Published: May 2, 2011
The United States may soon wind up with a distinction that makes business leaders cringe — the highest corporate tax rate in the world.

Topping out at 35 percent, America’s official corporate income tax rate trails that of only Japan, at 39.5 percent, which has said it plans to lower its rate. It is nearly triple Ireland’s and 10 percentage points higher than in Denmark, Austria or China. To help companies here stay competitive, many executives say, Congress should lower it.

But by taking advantage of myriad breaks and loopholes that other countries generally do not offer, United States corporations pay only slightly more on average than their counterparts in other industrial countries. And some American corporations use aggressive strategies to pay less — often far less — than their competitors abroad and at home. A Government Accountability Office study released in 2008 found that 55 percent of United States companies paid no federal income taxes during at least one year in a seven-year period it studied.

Talking Head

August 31st, 2011
8:55 am

fact – lib rats always need to someone to hate on

Adam

August 31st, 2011
8:56 am

stevie ray: It was sarcastic. The point is that regulations usually only hamper business if you’re an amoral pr*ck. Likewise, taxes only hamper businesses if you make painstaking efforts to have only part-time minimum wage employees. You might have to fire one of them if your taxes go up. D’oh.

HadIt

August 31st, 2011
8:56 am

Here’s the way it works. By law–lobbied for by you know who–the management of corporation A, namely the CEO of corporation A, nominates board members who are confirmed by shareholder votes. Any shareholder who doesn’t like the picks will simply sell his shares rather than spend millions of his own money on challenging the picks in a proxy fight. These chosen board members are generally CEO’s of other corporations or golfing buddies of the present CEO of corporation A. The board of corporation A meets to set compensation for its CEO. Since they don’t want to hurt the feelings of their good buddy, they feel they must set his compensation in the top 25% of other CEO’s in their industry. They do so. Three months later the board of corporation B meets and sets the compensation of their CEO in the top 25%. Three months later corpration C meets and does the same. Round after round, with nothing to stop it, the spiral just keeps going up and up. If the company is doing well, the bonuses are called “performance” bonuses. If the company is doing badly, the bonuses are called “retention” bonuses. And all of this is called the workings of a “free market.” Look at the numbers. Numbers don’t lie. Within another hundred years the executive class will receive 90% of all income in the country. Right now they are lobbying to be exempt from taxation (the ending of capital gain and divident taxation). In a hundred years they will argue they should be exempt from all laws, including the criminal laws. We are not headed toward third world status. We are headed toward feudalism.

Overtaxed and SO Unprosperous and I had to sell my Mansion for half Price!

August 31st, 2011
8:57 am

Why can’t those 50 percent that paid no income tax last year afford to pick up the slack left by the corporations and their CEO’s that made billions and yet got tax refunds! Why!!! Why do we always expect those that profit to pay! WHY!!!

Misty Fyed

August 31st, 2011
8:57 am

No Adam… The only thing I’d want to take away from anyone is any loop hole to get out of paying income tax. No offshore shell game… No earned income tax credit. If you make a buck; you gotta pay the man.

Adam

August 31st, 2011
8:57 am

The M. Vick example is just an illustration of how absurd that argument is.

No the M. Vick example is just a Republican talking point designed to counter the Democrat talking point with no real substance in the Democrat talking point addressed, and no real substance (as usual) to the Republican talking point at all int he first place.

Jm

August 31st, 2011
8:58 am

Snooze button on this

The obvious response, fixing the corporate tax structure by eliminating loopholes and lowering the rate is anathema to Dems, so there’s no point in discussing

Hopefully we can all wake up in 2013 to a more sensible president

Brosephus

August 31st, 2011
8:58 am

But they are hoarding the money!!!!!!! They could be hiring people, putting people to work, and paying more taxes!!!!!!!!!! Instead they are just piling it up in the bank!!!!!

In defense of Mike Vick, the last time he got ahold that kind of money, he put people to work and ended up in prison. That guy was treated worse than a one-legged leper with terminal cancer and AIDS. If I were his financial advisor, I’d tell him to hoard his money.

Just sayin’..

1811/0311

August 31st, 2011
8:58 am

Jay:

I wonder if you are paid more than the AJC pays in taxes for you?

cosby smith

August 31st, 2011
8:59 am

First of all, lets get this correct..corporations do not pay taxes but act as a tax collector. That is, the add the tax to the price of goods and services provided, collect from those who purchase the goods and services and pass on to the US government. Anyone who has taken a basic accounting course can figure that one out – something called expenses vs revenues. Second, Jay’s information comes from a biased group – a liberal think tank – really Jay, is this the best you can do. Now I keep hearing about all this tax reform non sense…well the Fair Tax – at least for payroll / income tax is out front but no one will really push the idea nor discuss it – why, because it will take power away from Washington DC – no more tax credit for this and that, no more tax credit to those – 52% – that do not pay taxes. Also note, that Buffet keeps talking about he should be taxed more while several of his companies owe back taxes. What is preventing him fropm making a contribution to the Government…nothing..so good old Warren – put your money where your mouth is….does anyone in the media or DC or the absolute rich – Warren – ever tell the truth or just put out worthless garbage to support their philosophy. Jay, get with Warren and decide how much additional you and he can contribute to the Fed’s and reduce my and the other 48% share!!!

Butch Cassidy

August 31st, 2011
8:59 am

Jm – “Hopefully we can all wake up in 2013 to a more sensible president”

I’d settle for just waking up to a sensible contender tomorrow.

Adam

August 31st, 2011
8:59 am

The only thing I’d want to take away from anyone is any loop hole to get out of paying income tax. No offshore shell game… No earned income tax credit. If you make a buck; you gotta pay the man.

I’ll go for that, across the board, no discrimination. Then we won’t have to reset the tax rates tot he Clinton levels to make up for the loopholes that are in place.

Citizen of the World

August 31st, 2011
8:59 am

Jimmy62 @ 8:37: Higher taxes equals higher prices is not a given. Higher taxes could equal lower executive pay, because there’s a price point at which we would just say “no thanks, just keep your goods and services.”

stands for decibels

August 31st, 2011
8:59 am

post-retirement commitments made to unions by public and private entities who can no longer afford (and possibly never could afford) to honor commitments.

Personal Responsibility for thee, but not for me.

(There’s your GOP bumper sticker.)

Good Little Liberal

August 31st, 2011
8:59 am

Jay

Would you mind telling us all what you make? Because if it is too much, we need to take action and distribute that wealth.

Brosephus

August 31st, 2011
8:59 am

And the tired ass liberal talking point is the wage factor of the CEO vs. the lowest paid worker. The M. Vick example is just an illustration of how absurd that argument is.

How many people are affected by the day to day decisions of a company’s CEO?

How many people are affected by the day to day decisions of Mike Vick?

Big difference dude. Only those who choose not to see that are the one’s who don’t understand it.

Talking Head

August 31st, 2011
9:00 am

if lobbying is the main problem with you lib rats, then why don’t you support doing away with our current convoluted tax code and propose a simpler flat tax?

1811/0311

August 31st, 2011
9:00 am

“Hugely profitable companies pay more to CEOs than to Uncle Sam”

Translation:

More Class envy
More Class warfare rhetoric
More jealousy of other’s skills
More socialism
Hatred of Capitalism

Jm

August 31st, 2011
9:00 am

Oh

Offshoring is perfectly fine legal rational and the ceo’s job if us tax rates are uncompetitive

Stop blaming the symptom and fix the problem dumb dems

Adam

August 31st, 2011
9:00 am

Jm: fixing the corporate tax structure by eliminating loopholes and lowering the rate is anathema to Dems

Guess you must have missed that I and many others support this very concept. It’s your GOP elected representatives who don’t want to close tax loopholes – unless it’s on the middle or poor classes

1811/0311

August 31st, 2011
9:01 am

Good Little Liberal at 8:59

Excellent.

Jay

August 31st, 2011
9:01 am

Michael Vick doesn’t set his own salary. Michael Vick doesn’t sit on a board to decide what other quarterbacks will be paid, knowing that other quarterbacks will also sit on his board deciding what he gets paid. Michael Vick doesn’t influence the selection of quarterback-compensation experts to determine what he’s worth.

And if Michael Vick doesn’t play well, or even gets hurt and can’t play, those future years of his contract will be voided. He will not be given a golden parachute after throwing 20 interceptions and leading his team to a 1-15 season.

Other than those things, it’s exactly the same.

Keep Up the Good Fight!

August 31st, 2011
9:01 am

Ahhh… the Hollywood star defense for CEOs. Yep, Will Farrell is paid millions for a movie appearance (or rather is team — agent fees and other costs but I am sure Will does well). Except Will did it by getting the “vote” of the people who attend movies that he is in. If he does not perform you see that “pay” cut. Each of his performances is graded and evaluated. If he bombs, his pay drops. Will did not do it by stacking the Board of Directors with cronies and others who are on interlocking boards and vote for each other.

The Hollywood defense is a weak comparison, much like apples and oranges, but its a nice red herring.

stevie ray

August 31st, 2011
9:01 am

Jay, I couldn’t agree more regarding lobbyist control which is the single most damaging aspect of current political landscape. Seems to me, without lobbyists, (for example military contractors and unions) different decisions relative to foreign policy (wars we can’t win) or maintaining a competitive workforce would have been much different. . I don’t agree with all the above blather about Republicans being any different than Democrats over time. They all operate in the same way but simply line up with different masters. The Supreme Court simply opines on the grey areas of existing law, if Congress truly wanted to change corporate citizen status, they can change the law. Term limits!

stands for decibels

August 31st, 2011
9:01 am

And those people are just living the life! Why, they have refrigerators!

they are Lucky Duckies.

(c) 2002, Wall Street Journal. All Rights Reserved.

Good Little Liberal

August 31st, 2011
9:02 am

All libs: Please post what you make. Be warned, if it is too much, we need to start giving that excess to people who don’t make as much. Now please. Just list your earnings here.

Adam

August 31st, 2011
9:02 am

stands: Personal Responsibility for thee, but not for me.

I like it. I’m keeping it. That one is going on Cafepress I think.

Gator Joe

August 31st, 2011
9:03 am

Jay,
In this scheme, or scam if you will, the corporate CEO’s, the lobbyists, and the politicians, especially Republicans all benefit. It looks as if the wealth is being shared along with the greed. Kudos to Fox and the other Right Wing media for successfully brainwashing Republican voters who support and defend all of this.

1811/0311

August 31st, 2011
9:03 am

Headline: “Thieves smash into downtown store”

Just another example of class envy and warfare. Someone works hard to accomplish their goal ……………… and someone else wants what they have.

stevie ray

August 31st, 2011
9:03 am

Jay, regarding Mick Vick, $40 million is guaranteed regardless of performance or disability. If he sits, they have to pay. If he is injured, Lloyds of London will pay.

USinUK

August 31st, 2011
9:03 am

“It’s almost as if it’s OK for corporations run by conservative Republicans to offshore jobs and use tax dodges, but somehow deeply offensive and wrong for a company run by a Democrat to do so?”

Jay! you’re not saying they employ a double standard, are you??? no!!! say it isn’t so!!!

Citizen of the World

August 31st, 2011
9:03 am

Talking Head at 8:55: Doesn’t sound like it’s your head you’re talking out of. If it were, seems like you could come up with something a little more constructive and persuasive than that.

Good Little Liberal

August 31st, 2011
9:03 am

Jay!!!

How about that salery. We have some decisions to make. Surely you aren’t above telling us what you make are you?

Adam

August 31st, 2011
9:03 am

5.8231511254019292604501607717042: Good Little Liberal at 8:59

Excellent.

No it’s not. You guys still have the false assumption that it is every liberal’s dream to steal from everyone and create a socialist state. It isn’t.

Keep Up the Good Fight!

August 31st, 2011
9:03 am

Jay Would you mind telling us all what you make?

Sounds like someone has wealth envy.
:D

Jm

August 31st, 2011
9:04 am

If u don’t want a free market economy jay, I guess you should join the communist party, not the Democrat party. Though they are about the same these days

Back to sleep

USinUK

August 31st, 2011
9:04 am

“Why, they have refrigerators! ”

and don’t forget microwaves!

Brosephus

August 31st, 2011
9:04 am

Offshoring is perfectly fine legal rational and the ceo’s job if us tax rates are uncompetitive

I’ll believe that when I see some CEO jobs outsourced and off-shored to India to save money. Until then, it’s nothing but the continued destruction of America.

Bosch

August 31st, 2011
9:04 am

“or Will Ferrell getting $30 million for one film next”

Sounds like someone has wealth envy.

larry

August 31st, 2011
9:04 am

That guy was treated worse than a one-legged leper with terminal cancer and AIDS.

You’ve got to be kidding me , right?

Adopting beagle hounds just to throw them in the pit so his dogs could get the taste of blood in their mouths.
Throwing dogs in the water and then throwing a plugged up electric heater in there to electricute them.
Im sorry, but he had his second chances , in 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, etc. And please dont tell me , they were just dogs. It takes an evil mind to come up with crap like that.

If i had my way about it, he’d still be rotting in jail . Especially after failing the drug test.

Treated worse, my butt!!!

USinUK

August 31st, 2011
9:05 am

“Surely you aren’t above telling us what you make are you?”

ruh-roh …

sounds like it’s time for WEDNESDAY LEG HUMPING to begin …

WOODSTOCK MIKE

August 31st, 2011
9:05 am

Another day, another CEO bashing article on the AJC. I guess we don’t want to talk about how the private sector once again created less jobs than expected in August. Or that the estimated GDP growth for 2011 has once again been downgraded. And it’s all the Republicans fault, HAHA.

And corporations pay taxes based off of laws that were passed by Democrats and Republicans. You libs seem to think the tax laws were created by only Republicans?? Just more nonsense. If you think that it would be wise to raise taxes on corporations during a recession you must be smarter than most economists.

USinUK

August 31st, 2011
9:05 am

““or Will Ferrell getting $30 million for one film next”

Sounds like someone has wealth envy.”

well it definitely isn’t talent envy

just sayin.

getalife

August 31st, 2011
9:05 am

cons love them some corporate power.

No personal responsibility for corporate.

Brosephus

August 31st, 2011
9:06 am

All libs: Please post what you make. Be warned, if it is too much, we need to start giving that excess to people who don’t make as much. Now please. Just list your earnings here.

I see the Deflect and Divert defense is going into full strength mode now. Didn’t take 3 full pages…

Granny Godzilla

August 31st, 2011
9:06 am

Need to point out Jeff Imelt is a registered republican.

WOODSTOCK MIKE

August 31st, 2011
9:06 am

Now I’m reading posts on here saying Republicans are happy that 3000 people died in 9/11. You guys are pathetic.

Keep Up the Good Fight!

August 31st, 2011
9:06 am

Oh sure… CEO’s have refrigerators and microwaves…. in their offices, cars, planes, home theaters. Why I bet they even have them in an app ;)

Butch Cassidy

August 31st, 2011
9:06 am

Good Little Liberal – “All libs: Please post what you make. Be warned, if it is too much, we need to start giving that excess to people who don’t make as much. Now please. Just list your earnings here.”

Really? You gleaned from an article about how companies paid CEO’s more than they paid in taxes while at the same time complaining about the tax rate being to high as a reference to socialism?

stands for decibels

August 31st, 2011
9:06 am

As long as we are calling stone cold bigots to account, can 1811 please tell us which “entire” Christian denominations are “unholy?”

http://blogs.ajc.com/jay-bookman-blog/2011/08/06/credit-downgrade-by-sp-unfortunately-is-deserved/?cp=all#comment-679025

Given that you claimed our country is “full of” such institutions, you really should be able to name names. Which did you mean?

USinUK

August 31st, 2011
9:06 am

“how the private sector once again created less jobs than expected in August. ”

considering the job numbers for August haven’t come out yet, I would say that’s a pretty bogus call on your part, Mike

Bosch

August 31st, 2011
9:07 am

“lib rats always need to someone to hate on”

Oh really Talking Head? How many times do we see the wingnuts here hating on and blaming everything on those darn poor folks.

Hypocrisy…thy name is Talking Head.

stevie ray

August 31st, 2011
9:08 am

Gator Joe, do you have any convincing, credible information supporting your claims that any of our crappy political parties sucks more juice from the DC trough than others or do you simply spout data that supports your predetermined positions?

This just in from DC…”the trough now recognizes the congressman from Georgia…come and get it”….

(ir)Rational

August 31st, 2011
9:08 am

Here is an idea. There is no such thing as being paid “too much.” You’re paid what your company feels your worth. If you have a simple job that anybody can do, you probably won’t be paid as much if you have a specialized job that only you and a handful of others can do. Which group do you think most CEOs are in? What about bloggers (successful ones that actually make you think)? Architects? Engineers? Factory workers? Fast food workers? Maids? You get paid what you’re worth to your employer. Simple as that. If the government can’t figure out how to tax the company effectively, that is the government’s problem. I would ask what exactly the government did to earn the money it is taking from the corporations though. And I know the typical responses, but I want to know what it truly did. Because obviously, many of these companies could be just as profitable (possibly more so) and work just as effectively if they were set up in other countries, so I’m not really seeing what it is the government did to earn the money they feel they deserve. At any rate, I guess I’m saying I don’t have a problem with the CEOs getting paid that much, just like I don’t have a problem with athletes getting paid what they do. Not sure, unless it is truly envy, why others do.

Oh-well. Who is John Galt?

1811/0311

August 31st, 2011
9:09 am

I wish there were a 100 times more billionaires in the U.S.

They buy things.

People have to make those things.

That creates jobs.

Good Little Liberal

August 31st, 2011
9:09 am

No answer, Jay?

So you can preach about social justice but when it comes to you actually setting an example, it isn’t happening. That sounds a little hypocrtical to me.

Come on, make it right. Tell us what you make and get ready to crank up that check book.

kayaker 71

August 31st, 2011
9:09 am

It is absolutely none of our business what corporations pay their CEOs. It is also none of our business where they manufacture their goods, have their board meetings, take their vacations or what chick they are banging. You can tax them out of existence if you want but that’s like stepping on your crank. Who, then, will provide jobs? It is no wonder that they have fled this country. They have no obligations to be provide welfare to all of those that want a job. They take the best and brightest who will benefit their business to the max. They have no obligations except to their shareholders. If you want more cooperation from business, make it easier for them to do business. If not, suck it up.

Adam

August 31st, 2011
9:09 am

HEADLINE YOU DIDN’T SEE: “Obama, FEMA mishandle Irene”

Why not? Because Obama didn’t have a crony running FEMA.

Butch Cassidy

August 31st, 2011
9:10 am

irRational – ” I would ask what exactly the government did to earn the money it is taking from the corporations though”

I’ll just start with the strongest military in the world that ensures said corporations can keep on raking it in.

USinUK

August 31st, 2011
9:11 am

“No answer, Jay?”

hump
hump
hump
hump
hump

(just like a hyper little poodle)

Adam

August 31st, 2011
9:11 am

GLL: So you can preach about social justice but when it comes to you actually setting an example, it isn’t happening. That sounds a little hypocrtical to me.

Come on, make it right. Tell us what you make and get ready to crank up that check book.

You realize the only point you’re making is that you’re a jerk who believes in the LIE that all liberals want a socialist state that steals from everyone, don’t you?

jconservative

August 31st, 2011
9:12 am

It is amazing how things change. We have a liberal type in the White House and Republicans are screaming.

In 2001 a Republican was sworn in as president. He immediately brought us “No Child Left Behind”, one of the great examples of Big Government in action Then he gave us the first new national entitlement in 38 years, the prescription drug plan for seniors, the largest increase in Medicare in history. He found a “surplus” in the mist of a $6 trillion National Debt, mailed every taxpayer a check, and was well on the way to doubling the national debt.

His reward for 4 years of Liberal Big Government was being re-elected to a second term.

Go figure.

godless heathen

August 31st, 2011
9:12 am

Jay, An athlete or an entertainer negotiates his own salary, just like a CEO. They care not whether they take so much money that the team or studio is unable to pay other talent. They are paid according to their worth to an organization. And the organizations, be they ball teams or movie studios, get tax breaks and incentives. But the salaries of the athletes and entertainers don’t bother liberals, why? Because they are not evil CEOS and probable Republicans.

Good Little Liberal

August 31st, 2011
9:12 am

USinUK

How much do you make, girl. We have poor people over here that don’t even have flat screen TVs. I think its time to stop talking and start acting.

Bosch

August 31st, 2011
9:12 am

Scout,

Poor people buy things too.

getalife

August 31st, 2011
9:12 am

The gop are the wealth care party.

They laugh at broke cons for blindly voting for the wealth care party.

Brosephus

August 31st, 2011
9:12 am

larry

Mike did his time in prison, and he even joined the ASPCA to do work to combat dog fighting. People still wanted dude’s head on a platter AFTER he completed his sentence. I thought that once you did your time, then that’s the end of it. He was tried, convicted, and sentenced. He completed his sentence. People who killed other people have been treated better than MV, and you know it. There were many who didn’t want that guy to be able to get a job bagging groceries. That’s why I said he was treated so bad, not because of his sentence or anything.

Butch Cassidy

August 31st, 2011
9:12 am

Good Little Liberal – “Come on, make it right. Tell us what you make and get ready to crank up that check book.”

Great, an anonymous poster on an anonymous blog wants to know what we make with absolutely no way to verify the information. Exactly what will the basis of your counter argument be? Or, don’t you think that far ahead?

(ir)Rational

August 31st, 2011
9:12 am

Butch – So the corporations that relocate to the Caribbean or India and China, they’re not being profitable because they don’t have the US Military protecting them? Try again.

Oh-well. Who is John Galt?

1811/0311

August 31st, 2011
9:13 am

Here you go libs. More class envy:

Headline: “‘Sleeping gas’ thieves target super-rich at Italian billionaires’ resort”

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/aug/30/italy-thieves-sleeping-gas-sardinia

larry

August 31st, 2011
9:13 am

Ahhh, but Adam here is a headline you will see

HEADLINE: FEMA running out of money. Republicans ( See Eric Cantor) promise to hold money hostage unless they get their way again. Which means more job destroying cuts.

RB from Gwinnett

August 31st, 2011
9:13 am

“a liberal think tank”

Now that’s ^^^^^ an oxymoron if there ever was one!!

Sounds to me like the private sector is working the tax code to their benefit. Perhaps they’re smarter than the folks in Washington????

USinUK

August 31st, 2011
9:14 am

“How much do you make, girl. We have poor people over here that don’t even have flat screen TVs. I think its time to stop talking and start acting.”

hump
hump
hump
hump
hump
hump

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EvGZjRIH-NQ

Ayn Rant

August 31st, 2011
9:14 am

“Uncle Sam” is us, by the way; we’re being cheated.

Big Business CEOs have free reign to do as they please: they please to plunder the assets of their companies by granting themselves huge pay raises, generous benefits, and stock options; they also cushion themselves against dismissal for incompetence by inserting “golden parachutes” in their contracts.

And what about the Board of Directors, who are supposed to oversee the direction of the company? They’re a bunch of retired big-name patsies selected by the CEO to concur with his every suggestion. They collect outrageous fees for coming off the golf course for a few hours each quarter to rubberstamp the CEOs decisions.

And what about the stockholders who, in theory, own the company and have a voice in company direction? Well, they’re a diverse bunch of individuals, investment portfolios, foreign and domestic companies with no effective way to influence the direction of the company. The stockholder vote on the selection of Board members is window dressing; the CEO’s selection always wins.

The federal tax code subsidizes this outrage: executive salary, benefits, expenses, and golden parachutes are tax deductible as business expenses of the company, and executive stock options receive favorable tax treatment.

Just one more outrage. The Big Business CEOs are not inventors, innovators, or industrialists in the style of Henry Ford, Cornelius Vanderbilt, Bill Gates, and Steve Jobs. Big Business CEOs are financial manipulators adept at buying out, merging with, or running off the competition, and closing and moving factories and offices.

Let’s pester the whole bloody lot by raising their taxes!

Bosch

August 31st, 2011
9:14 am

And Talking Head,

Lib Rats? Really? Did you wake up on the wrong side of the bed today?

Good Little Liberal

August 31st, 2011
9:14 am

Adam

How much do you make? We need to know. You guys whine about what other people make but aren’t even willing to confess that you actually make mpney yourself.

And the jerk is the person who writes article after article, promoting class warfare but won’;t even tell us what he makes.

1811/0311

August 31st, 2011
9:14 am

Bosch:

Sure they do.

So let’s just get rid of all the rich people and see what they can buy.

Ever been to a grocery store in a communist country vs. Publix?

Probably not.

(ir)Rational

August 31st, 2011
9:14 am

RB – of course the private sector is smarter than the folks in Washington. Why do you think they’re the private sector and not working for the government? :)

Oh-well. Who is John Galt?

Jm

August 31st, 2011
9:15 am

Usinuk adp came out today….

Butch Cassidy

August 31st, 2011
9:15 am

godless heathen – But the salaries of the athletes and entertainers don’t bother liberals, why? Because they are not evil CEOS and probable Republicans.”

And because they can’t destroy the lives of millions of workers simply to put another decimal point on the P and L report.

Adam

August 31st, 2011
9:15 am

godless heathen: But the salaries of the athletes and entertainers don’t bother liberals, why?

First of all, of course it bothers everyone. Second, one has nothing to do with the other. It’s a crap argument. You are better than that.

Good Little Liberal

August 31st, 2011
9:15 am

USinUK

How much do you nmake. Acting like an adolecsent doesn’t feed the needy. How much, girl?

Adam

August 31st, 2011
9:16 am

GLL: I suggest you go get your morning coffee or something. You’re obviously in a delusional headspace.

Butch Cassidy

August 31st, 2011
9:17 am

ir Rational – “So the corporations that relocate to the Caribbean or India and China, they’re not being profitable because they don’t have the US Military protecting them? Try again.”

Okay – “These are American companies — corporations that are based here in the United States because they know that locating here maximizes their profits. They want all of the advantages of being American, meanwhile pretending that a lot of their operations are located on some little Caribbean island. ”

Now, take it up with Jay.

Jm

August 31st, 2011
9:17 am

I bet Jay paid himself more than he paid in taxes

:)

Brosephus

August 31st, 2011
9:17 am

It is absolutely none of our business what corporations pay their CEOs. It is also none of our business where they manufacture their goods, have their board meetings, take their vacations or what chick they are banging. …

Wrong, wrong, wrong…. As long as our 401(k)’s, i.e. our retirement income, are dependent upon those corporations and CEO’s, it is ABSOLUTELY our business what they’re paid, what they spend, what they decide, and where they create jobs. You’re way off base on your criticism because most of us have 401k’s that are directly tied to the companies that are causing the gripes. As investors, we have all the right to know those things. If they don’t wanna face the heat, take the company private and get it out of our 401k.

Bosch

August 31st, 2011
9:17 am

“So let’s just get rid of all the rich people and see what they can buy.”

Scout,

Can you tell us what you mean by “rich?” Do you understand that arguing on the basis of relative terms is not valid? Do you know what valid means?

(ir)Rational

August 31st, 2011
9:18 am

GLL – Why do you care what others make? I personally don’t care what anyone besides my wife and myself make. How about this, you do your job, make your salary, and pay your taxes. I’ll do the same, and we can leave everyone else alone to do the same. Sound good?

Oh-well. Who is John Galt?

Good Little Liberal

August 31st, 2011
9:18 am

Butch Cassidy

I think it is important that people practice what they preach. Don’t you?

If you make anything more than the poverty level, you need to give the rest of that away. Right? You want to dictate what CEOs make. How about setting an example?

stands for decibels

August 31st, 2011
9:18 am

He found a “surplus” in the mist of a $6 trillion National Debt

Well, let’s not fail to award a finder’s fee to “Mr. Andrea Mitchell.

USinUK

August 31st, 2011
9:19 am

Jm – “adp came out today…”

and?

adp isn’t the official reading

not to mention, since today is the last day of August, there is no way their info is for the entire month.

Steve - B.

August 31st, 2011
9:19 am

3 things:
1. Once again people try to ignore the fact that Democrats also run large Corporations.
2. Tax deductions come from the Government trying to promote certain activities.
3. A simple “Minimum Tax”, would stop people and corporations from paying nothing.

Bosch

August 31st, 2011
9:19 am

LOoks like GLL had way too many Hyperbole Sandwiches for breakfast.

Adam

August 31st, 2011
9:19 am

larry: Exactly. Now that FEMA is doing its job, we need to cut it. I can think of no better example of a program worthy of having the funds. You can’t claim waste in today’s FEMA, because they are stretching every dollar they have, and it’s not enough. So now we have to spend months and years arguing over what to cut in order to give FEMA money, at the end of which someone will surely question whether it’s even important to fund the projects to rebuild Joplin and Irene-affected areas.

Butch Cassidy

August 31st, 2011
9:19 am

Good Little Liberal – “How much do you make? We need to know.”

After taxes roughly $400,000. Now, get on with your denial of my statement.

kayaker 71

August 31st, 2011
9:19 am

This thread has the tone of those idiots in Wisconsin and in PA who rob and steal from those who they are envious of. What’s the difference between those mobs in the UK and in our country taking what they want just because they think they can without consequence? “It’s not fair”. “Those people make too much money”. This is class warfare and penis envy….. nothing more. Any of you whining libs would trade places with these evil CEOs in a heartbeat if you just had the brains to run a company successfully. Your philosophy……. work hard for your money, fools, and we will tell you how to spend it.

Good Little Liberal

August 31st, 2011
9:20 am

ir)Rational

You didn’t read Jay’s article? Youi haven’t read the responses? Apparently the libs here think they should have a say in what others make. I think I should have a say in what they make.

USinUK

August 31st, 2011
9:20 am

“How much do you nmake. Acting like an adolecsent doesn’t feed the needy. How much, girl?”

hump
hump
hump
hump
hump
hump

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EvGZjRIH-NQ

stands for decibels

August 31st, 2011
9:20 am

I think it is important that people practice what they preach.

no, you don’t.

You think it’s important for the other side to unilaterally disarm so that you can rape them.

larry

August 31st, 2011
9:20 am

Brosephus

August 31st, 2011
9:12 am

He did not do enough time in prison to suite me. This was going on for 7 years . He had his second chances. And something tells me , if he had not got caught , he would still be doing this.
I was a MV fan . I even looked over the Ron Mexico doings, the leafy substance at the bottom of his water bottle in MIami, the shooting of the bird in 2005 at the ATL fans. But serving only two and a half years ,plus failing drug tests in prison, plus a slap on the wrist from the state of Virginia, for something as evil as this. I mean ,slamming a dog into the concrete repeatedly until it kills him , and then laughing about it, im sorry but that is just plain evil .

Keep Up the Good Fight!

August 31st, 2011
9:20 am

GLL: USinUK – How much do you make, girl. [Someone is getting their aggression wheaties this mornning, I see] We have poor people over here that don’t even have flat screen TVs. [Hmmm.... why I bet they would have flat screens if they were sold at the Whole Foods, right?]

Is GLL trying to demand that if someone makes more they must contribute more either in taxes or contributions to others?

Real Scooter

August 31st, 2011
9:20 am

Hey Jay,I just got here and saw your post to Tommy.I can’t speak for Tommy but I can speak for myself and my small circle of close friends. We have always refered to the Falcons as the “coons” as a short version of Falcons and nothing racial intended. Just sayin…….

(ir)Rational

August 31st, 2011
9:20 am

Butch – you’re the one that brought up the argument that they were profitable because we have a strong military. I’m just asking you to defend your statements. Maybe the benefits of being an American company means that they don’t have to pay tariffs when they import things into the country, or they have a more highly educated workforce than they would get in other parts of the world. I’m just trying to figure out what it was that the government did to earn the money they are taking from the corporations.

Oh-well. Who is John Galt?

Jay

August 31st, 2011
9:20 am

I’ll tell you what, GLL. You show me yours, I’ll show you mine.

You tell us your real name, and send me your tax forms from 2010. I’ll post your total income and taxes paid, under your real name, right next to mine.

Fair is fair.

USinUK

August 31st, 2011
9:20 am

“LOoks like GLL had way too many Hyperbole Sandwiches for breakfast.”

sandwiches?

more like hyperbole highballs

Bosch

August 31st, 2011
9:21 am

“Apparently the libs here think they should have a say in what others make”

Really? Like where did anyone write such a thing? Or is that just the little voices in your head talking?

Mighty Righty

August 31st, 2011
9:21 am

Granny Godzilla

August 31st, 2011
7:57 am
Heard this on NPR this morning…..

The GOP blocked a bill to close the “offshore loophole” last September
wonder why.

I wonder about that too. Democrats had abslute control of the House, Senate and White House in September of last year. They could do anything they wanted and no Republican could stop them. It was impossible for the GOP to “block” any legislation. My guess would be the Democrat congress and Democrat President had to pay off their corporate donors. And as usual, NPR lies to help Democrats.

Good Little Liberal

August 31st, 2011
9:21 am

Butch Cassidy

I’m not advocating wealth distribution. I think promoting class warfare is criminal. I have no example to set. Libs do.

Brosephus

August 31st, 2011
9:21 am

Sounds to me like the private sector is working the tax code to their benefit. Perhaps they’re smarter than the folks in Washington????

Good guess, but way wrong. Most of the people who are in the private sector bending the tax code like Neo from The Matrix got their start by working for the agencies that wrote and enforced the very code they’re bending. As an example, much of GE’s tax group all were previously public sector workers in and around DC. Seems like the best in the private sector can’t touch the best coming from the public sector…

Adam

August 31st, 2011
9:21 am

GLL: You want to dictate what CEOs make.

No. That’s a lie. And that’s why you’re being exceptionally stupid today, you believe those lies.

Bosch

August 31st, 2011
9:22 am

@@,

Apparently Jay has laxed the “hump” rule as Peadawg was using that term the other day and was given a free pass.

kayaker 71

August 31st, 2011
9:22 am

Brocphus,

If it weren’t for these evil corporations, you wouldn’t even have a 401K. Once the money is deposited in a 401K, it is you who determines what the account will produce. The evil corporation has nothing to do with it.

USinUK

August 31st, 2011
9:22 am

@@ – when it comes to getting one’s hump on, no one holds a candle to GLL

Good Little Liberal

August 31st, 2011
9:22 am

Bosch

What’s Jay’s article about? CEOs making too much money. Right?

You make too much money. I need some of your money. Give it up.

(ir)Rational

August 31st, 2011
9:23 am

GLL – I have read the column and the responses. Doesn’t mean that I think it is any of anyone’s business what anyone here or anywhere else makes. With the exception of the people that we elect to office.

Oh-well. Who is John Galt?

1811/0311

August 31st, 2011
9:23 am

Bosch:

The definition of “rich” doesn’t matter. It’s their business. Not yours ……….. not the government’s.

As long as they earn it legally and pay their taxes it’s not for you to involve yourself with.

That’s what made this country great.

Adam

August 31st, 2011
9:24 am

GLL: I think promoting class warfare is criminal.

Then stop trying to tax the poor more.

Joe Mama

August 31st, 2011
9:24 am

Granny — “another wanted horseradish sauce for his roast beast”

I see what you did there.

Bosch

August 31st, 2011
9:24 am

GLL,

That may be YOUR interpretation, but if you insist upon projecting your interpretations onto others and then using those falsities as a basis for arguing that’s how a group of people think, then that’s just nuts, and you will be taken to task on using such weak reasoning.

1811/0311

August 31st, 2011
9:25 am

Good Little Liberal:

Ever notice in communist countries the “leaders” live RICH while the peasants have to tow the party line?

getalife

August 31st, 2011
9:25 am

cons can shut up on personal responsibility.

Wealth care is all they care about.

Wealth care ideology.

BADA BING

August 31st, 2011
9:25 am

Jay…..ATL used to have a ball team called the ‘Crackers’. What do you think they meant by that?

Good Little Liberal

August 31st, 2011
9:25 am

USinUK

So you are not going to tell us all what you make. Hmmm. Then I guess you shouodn’t ne questioning what others make.

Keep Up the Good Fight!

August 31st, 2011
9:25 am

What’s Jay’s article about? CEOs making too much money. Right?

Is the ability to completely miss the point of the article part of that Comprehension 101 training?

Scooter

August 31st, 2011
9:25 am

Oooooh that gets me so emotional I’m beginning to forget the corporations get all that money from the consumer.

Bosch

August 31st, 2011
9:25 am

Scout,

“The definition of “rich” doesn’t matter.”

It does if you are using that as a basis for your argument. So, what do you mean by “getting rid of the rich” people? Who are they?

Good Little Liberal

August 31st, 2011
9:25 am

UsdinUK

And leg hunmping. What a classy term.

Jay

August 31st, 2011
9:26 am

And GLL, you DO have a say in what I make, in much the same way that individual shareholders are said to have a say in CEO pay.

By coming here, you send a message to the company that I’m doing good work and should be compensated. And I appreciate that. Really, I do.

Good Little Liberal

August 31st, 2011
9:26 am

Keep Up

You are exempt.

Adam

August 31st, 2011
9:27 am

GLL: I’ll throw in my tax return from 2010 with my real name and verify everything if you do the same as Jay requested.

Granny Godzilla

August 31st, 2011
9:27 am

Mighty Righty

“Democrats had abslute control of the House, Senate and White House in September of last year.”

Nope. Not true. A fib. A lie. Piffle. Nonsense.

60 votes were required….

Righties would be Mightyier if the were Truthier.

(ir)Rational

August 31st, 2011
9:27 am

USinUK – my dog acted like that once. I took him and got him neutered the next week. Draw your own conclusions, but it worked. Just saying. Also, some mighty evil came out of Old Trafford Sunday. Really put a damper on my weekend. :’(

Oh-well. Who is John Galt?

USinUK

August 31st, 2011
9:27 am

GLL – “So you are not going to tell us all what you make. Hmmm. Then I guess you shouodn’t ne questioning what others make.”

keep on humpin GLL

and I can “question” what CEOs make – particularly when they’re laying off their employees to feed the beast – as long as I like, thank you.

Common Sense

August 31st, 2011
9:27 am

Wealth envy is a wonderful thing.

It’s private wealth, not public wealth.

The first thing you should have told yourself is “It’s none of my business”.

Good Little Liberal

August 31st, 2011
9:28 am

Jay

that’s not really the point is it? You do a good job by stirring s***. Class warfare is lowest form of political discourse.

Adam

August 31st, 2011
9:28 am

GLL: And leg hunmping. What a classy term.

Coming from the guy who has been crass and stupid in most of his posts so far today.

Just go. It’s been fun. Don’t come back.

Brosephus

August 31st, 2011
9:28 am

larry

I can understand your anger, but from my perspective, he served the sentence he was given. The anger you feel is the same anger that the parents of the 4 girls killed when the 16th Street Church was bombed in B’ham years ago. The anger you feel is the same anger I felt when the girl that killed my grandfather got off without even facing charges for manslaughter. Based on past experiences where I’ve been told to just accept it, I see the MV thing the same way. That’s just my opinion, but I’ve been burned by the justice system in the past with nobody fighting on my behalf, so I don’t feel empathy for anybody else.

Adam

August 31st, 2011
9:28 am

GLL: Class warfare is lowest form of political discourse.

Then stop advocating for taxing the poor more.

stands for decibels

August 31st, 2011
9:29 am

1811. The “unholy” denominations. Which ones did you mean?

This is the fourth time I’ve asked you directly.

You said the country was “full of them.” I just want to know so I can let these folks know that they are “unholy.”

Do you need to be asked in a different way?

Let’s see… does the name rhyme with “Repisscapalian?” “Schmethodist?” “Hewnited Burch of Heist?” “The Rosiety of Schmends?”

Good Little Liberal

August 31st, 2011
9:29 am

USinUK

You can do whatever you want. You can also be a hypocrit if you want.

Jm

August 31st, 2011
9:30 am

GLL time to man up :)

Steve - B.

August 31st, 2011
9:30 am

I can’t believe no one likes my “Minimum Tax” idea. I love it. :) How can anyone argue paying 0 is fair?

Good Little Liberal

August 31st, 2011
9:30 am

Adam

YOu need to stop lying. When did i advocate taxing the poor? I just want to tax you more.

Butch Cassidy

August 31st, 2011
9:30 am

irRational – “Butch – you’re the one that brought up the argument that they were profitable because we have a strong military. ”

No I didn’t. You asked – ” I would ask what exactly the government did to earn the money it is taking from the corporations though.”

I responded that they pay for and maintain the strongest military in the world to ensure that said corporations can keep raking it in. I answered the question you asked.

Mighty Righty

August 31st, 2011
9:30 am

Jay is over looking the fact that CEO’s pay taxes at the same rate as corporations, so there is no net los to the government in tax revenue. In fact, if the CEO bonuses were instead paid to the workers, the govrnment would lose money at the lower tax rates.

Common Sense

August 31st, 2011
9:31 am

“By coming here, you send a message to the company that I’m doing good work and should be compensated. And I appreciate that. Really, I do.”

That’s called false logic.

1811/0311

August 31st, 2011
9:31 am

Rich: “Anyone Bosch envies because they have more money than he does”.

Adam

August 31st, 2011
9:31 am

GLL: I just want to tax you more.

Stop the class warfare GLL, it’s really the lowest form of political discourse.

Bosch

August 31st, 2011
9:31 am

“How can anyone argue paying 0 is fair?”

Oh, I can, would you like to hear it?

Keep Up the Good Fight!

August 31st, 2011
9:31 am

GLL will be offering “How to Stay Classy in Blog Posts” classes later this evening…..

Teaser Tip (to entice you to the class): Repeatedly call someone “girl” and then protest loudly and whine about a post using a term that the protestor has used repeatedly.

Good Little Liberal

August 31st, 2011
9:31 am

Adam

I know that you don’t like what I am saying. But I’m sticking around. K?

Joe Mama

August 31st, 2011
9:32 am

Stands — “Not that I especially care, just curious, since it seems like a very specific investment/gain situation to me.”

An accountant friend of mine who taught himself MS Access used it to build a tool to estimate after-tax lottery winnings. You inputted the amount won, the payout frequency (including lump sum), your state of residence and current-year gross income (it worked for smaller amounts, too — like Fantasy 5 winnings) and it spat out how much you’d get after taxes.

And he said the same thing you did — that lottery winnings should be taxed as capital gains. After all, he said, you invested a buck in the lotto, so if it paid off, that’s clearly a capital gain.

Good Little Liberal

August 31st, 2011
9:32 am

Keep Up

I said that you werer exempt. I believe the term is “quit humping my leg”. Was that correct USinUK? Did I use the term correctly?

Adam

August 31st, 2011
9:32 am

Mighty Righty: In fact, if the CEO bonuses were instead paid to the workers, the govrnment would lose money at the lower tax rates.

Sounds like a win-win.

Keep Up the Good Fight!

August 31st, 2011
9:33 am

I am all for taxing Adam more, myself more…all of us more. If only GLL were advocating for raising the progressive tax rates appropriately and closing tax loopholes.

Mary Elizabeth

August 31st, 2011
9:33 am

To reinforce my 8:34 a.m. post, please note the following data, especially, the first point.

I want to reinforce that I am not blatantly against corporations, Cox Enterprises, under Mrs. Chambers, has done an excellent job in serving the public, while making profit. Corporations serve their purposes, but our nation needs balance restored. The first point below shows a trend that does not favor the American Middle Class, most of whom do not work in the corporate world.

• In 1950, the ratio of the average executive’s paycheck to the average worker’s paycheck was about 30 to 1. Since the year 2000, that ratio has exploded to between 300 to 500 to one.

• 83 percent of all U.S. stocks are in the hands of 1 percent of the people.

• 61 percent of Americans “always or usually” live paycheck to paycheck, which was up from 49 percent in 2008 and 43 percent in 2007.

• 66 percent of the income growth between 2001 and 2007 went to the top 1% of all Americans.

• 36 percent of Americans say that they don’t contribute anything to retirement savings.

• A staggering 43 percent of Americans have less than $10,000 saved up for retirement.

• 24 percent of American workers say that they have postponed their planned retirement age in the past year.

• Over 1.4 million Americans filed for personal bankruptcy in 2009, which represented a 32 percent increase over 2008.

The last points show why Social Security and Medicare will remain needed social safety needs for the vast majority of Americans.

Source:
http://finance.yahoo.com/tech-ticker/the-u.s.-middle-class-is-being-wiped-out-here’s-the-stats-to-prove-it-520657.html?tickers=%5EDJI,%5EGSPC,SPY,MCD,WMT,XRT,DIA

Brosephus

August 31st, 2011
9:33 am

If it weren’t for these evil corporations, you wouldn’t even have a 401K.

You spoke the damned truth there. I remember when companies actually provided pensions for workers as a token of long-term loyalty to keeping the company going and profitable. After a while, the companies pretty much gave the long-term loyal worker the finger. That would make them evil in my book.

Once the money is deposited in a 401K, it is you who determines what the account will produce. The evil corporation has nothing to do with it.

And who makes the accounts profitable? I don’t, I’m merely an investor at that point. The accounts themselves are invested in the market. It IS the corporation who makes my account profitable. Geez… You make it sound like a 401k is some super duper savings account when it is nothing more than an investment vehicle. :roll:

Granny Godzilla

August 31st, 2011
9:33 am

Class warfare….

Actually I think it’s about time.

BADA BING

August 31st, 2011
9:34 am

J Jackson called obama a ****er on a live mike that he thought was off. What do you think he meant by that?

Adam

August 31st, 2011
9:34 am

GLL: I know that you don’t like what I am saying. But I’m sticking around. K?

So am I, and since you place such value on this medium of communication, I will be watching you like a hawk and taking you to task for everything you say.

Jm

August 31st, 2011
9:34 am

This has to be one of the stupidest topics ever

If a company is unprofitable, yeah it will pay the CEO more than it pays in taxes. So what?

Steve - B.

August 31st, 2011
9:34 am

Sure Bosch – I entertain all opinions.

Good Little Liberal

August 31st, 2011
9:35 am

Adam

Class warfare is “In”, man. Haven’t you been keeping up? Companies not paying enough taxes and paying their CEOs too much. It was based on a study done by a liberal think tank and what on earth is more hip than a liberal think tank?

1811/0311

August 31st, 2011
9:35 am

stands for decibles:

I didn’t say the country/world was full of them ………… God did.

If the shoes fits wear it ………… otherwise press on !

Revelation 3:

To the Church in Laodicea

14 “To the angel of the church in Laodicea write:

These are the words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the ruler of God’s creation. 15 I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were either one or the other! 16 So, because you are lukewarm—neither hot nor cold—I am about to spit you out of my mouth. 17 You say, ‘I am rich; I have acquired wealth and do not need a thing.’ But you do not realize that you are wretched, pitiful, poor, blind and naked. 18 I counsel you to buy from me gold refined in the fire, so you can become rich; and white clothes to wear, so you can cover your shameful nakedness; and salve to put on your eyes, so you can see.

19 Those whom I love I rebuke and discipline. So be earnest and repent.”

Jm

August 31st, 2011
9:35 am

Ah delete last post

Need coffee

(ir)Rational

August 31st, 2011
9:35 am

Butch – I’m partially just being argumentative, but I’m seriously wanting to know what people think the government has done to earn the money that they take from us and from corporations. That part that is being argumentative says the government has the military for their own selfish interests. It also says that corporations can move to other places without as strong of a military and do just fine, so it points me back to wanting to know what it is that the government does to earn their pay.

Oh-well. Who is John Galt?

Mighty Righty

August 31st, 2011
9:36 am

Granny Godzilla

August 31st, 2011
9:27 am

Saying it doesn’t make it true. 60 votes are not required except to stop a filibuster of which there was none. Your ignoance is showing as usual.

Good Little Liberal

August 31st, 2011
9:36 am

Adam

I’m glad you are sticking around. If there’s one thing I never want, its for liberals to ever shut up.

I wouldn’t have supported book burnings either.

Adam

August 31st, 2011
9:37 am

GLL: Class warfare is the lowest form of political discourse

Class warfare is “In”, man.

Which is it?

1811/0311

August 31st, 2011
9:37 am

Granny:

“Class warfare….

Actually I think it’s about time.”

Granny get your gun !

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KVKmaYOES0

Jay

August 31st, 2011
9:38 am

“Class warfare is lowest form of political discourse.”

I do love that argument. When CEOs up their pay from 263 times the pay of America’s average workers to 325 times the average pay in just a year’s time — and when they give themselves an average pay increase of 28 percent in a time of great economic hardship for millions — that is not class warfare or wealth redistribution.

No, it is only class warfare when you are rude enough to notice such things.

getalife

August 31st, 2011
9:38 am

Thanks for coming here to support Jay cons.

You should rethink your wealth care ideology and look at the costs.

Your wealth care ideology is bankrupting your country.

Not that you really care about your country because you want to default but lets put the blame where it really should be.

You do love the blame game.

Common Sense

August 31st, 2011
9:38 am

“Class warfare….

Actually I think it’s about time.”

The ignorant have no chance in winning a war in which one must use force to control the masses and get what you seek.

Freedom and Independence will always trump it.

Those that want freedom are always more motivated.

Remember that as you hit your front lines there Granny.

larry

August 31st, 2011
9:38 am

Brosephus

August 31st, 2011
9:28 am

Then the man , just like those people, should not be rewarded with 100 million dollar contracts.

The anger you feel is the same anger I felt when the girl that killed my grandfather got off without even facing charges for manslaughter. Based on past experiences where I’ve been told to just accept it,

Except you shouldnt have to just accept it. District Attorney’s run for office, work like hell to get them out when a breach of justice like you discribed happens. Sheriffs run for office too.

As for MV, ive bought my last pair of NIkes, something which i have bought on a consistant basis for the last 30 years. They may not feel the loss , but i will have my piece of mind.

Common Sense

August 31st, 2011
9:39 am

“When CEOs up their pay from 263 times the pay of America’s average workers to 325 times the average pay in just a year’s time — and when they give themselves an average pay increase of 28 percent in a time of great economic hardship for millions — that is not class warfare or wealth redistribution.”

Yet how is this your business?

Granny Godzilla

August 31st, 2011
9:39 am

Mighty Righty

The vote was 53 to 45…..required 60 votes to even bring it to the floor….

I’m not ignorant you’re lazy.

Adam

August 31st, 2011
9:40 am

Common Sense: Those that want freedom are always more motivated.

The more you guys support wealth redistribution upwards and declining wages for everyone else, the closer you bring us to the very Marxist revolution you fear.

Granny Godzilla

August 31st, 2011
9:40 am

Common Sense

Do you really think the only way to wage war is violence?

You married?

Jay

August 31st, 2011
9:40 am

jm, I see you’ve noticed that $1.9 billion in average profit part of the post.

Gotta run for a bit.

Jm

August 31st, 2011
9:40 am

Tax return penis measuring

Faaaantastic fun

This should be entertaining

(ir)Rational

August 31st, 2011
9:41 am

Common Sense – That argument will get you nowhere here. They know better than you on everything. Just accept it and move on. ;)

Oh-well. Who is John Galt?

Butch Cassidy

August 31st, 2011
9:41 am

Jay – ” When CEOs up their pay from 263 times the pay of America’s average workers to 325 times the average pay in just a year’s time — and when they give themselves an average pay increase of 28 percent in a time of great economic hardship for millions — that is not class warfare or wealth redistribution.”

Nope, it’s just being a world class D!@#

kayaker 71

August 31st, 2011
9:41 am

Bookman,

Cox enterprises hires you because you bring worth to their corporation. If you didn’t, I am sure that they would have the sense to either not hire you or get rid of you. If they brought in some twit who only posted 15 or 20 hits on their daily blog, I am sure that they would not last too long. You bring value to the company. On a larger scale, the CEO runs a company and makes decisions based on the company’s well being. Ed Whitaker was paid gazillions of dollars while CEO at AT&T but he built that corporation into the largest communications company in existence. Bottom line……. the corporation hires competent, hard working people who are assets. In turn, they compensate them, based on what they are perceived to be worth.
I hope that Cox Broadcasting pays you 500K/yr. if they did, would you turn it down?

Mighty Righty

August 31st, 2011
9:41 am

The great liberal Warren Buffet was praised last week for saying he should pay more taxes. Obama praised him, liberals on this blog just couldn’t shut up about his generosity. Now we find out his company doesn’t even pay taxes it owes and most likely his conspirators in the administration will cover for him. What a joke!

Good Little Liberal

August 31st, 2011
9:41 am

Jay

Are you still doing it? You won’t even tell us what you make but for some reaso, you believe that you should have a say in what other people make.

You are right: Great hardhip for millions. How about cranking up that check book. You just took some vacations. Wouldn’t that money be better served in helping the poor?

I mean, you can say what you think CEOs should make and companies should do with their money. But you don’t think that I should also have that luxery?

Jack

August 31st, 2011
9:41 am

CEO’s salaries reduce corp profit. The CEO pays taxes based on his income range. The corp profit is then taxed at the corp rate. The dollars are going to be taxed on a personal tax return or a corp tax return, that is, if it’s a C corp. It’s a bit more complicated than Bookman indicates. Anyway, when Bookman begins his corp, the CEO salary will be controlled by him and then he won’t have anything to complain about.

Jm

August 31st, 2011
9:42 am

Jay 9:40 yep

larry

August 31st, 2011
9:42 am

Actually , Mighty Righty, 60 votes are required to stop a filabuster.

In the United States Senate, rules permit a senator, or a series of senators, to speak for as long as they wish and on any topic they choose, unless “three-fifths of the Senators duly chosen and sworn”[35] (usually 60 out of 100 senators) brings debate to a close by invoking cloture under Senate Rule XXII. According to the Supreme Court ruling in United States v. Ballin (1892), changes to Senate rules could be achieved by a simple majority. Nevertheless, under current Senate rules, a rule change itself could be filibustered, with two-thirds of those senators present and voting (as opposed to the normal three-fifths of those sworn) needing to vote to end debate.[35] Despite this written requirement, the possibility exists that the filibuster could be changed by majority vote, using the so-called nuclear option, also sometimes called the constitutional option by proponents. Even if a filibuster attempt is unsuccessful, the process takes floor time. In recent years the majority has preferred to avoid filibusters by moving to other business when a filibuster is threatened and attempts to achieve cloture have failed.[36]

Good Little Liberal

August 31st, 2011
9:44 am

Granny

The number one way to fight the class warfare fight: Get a job.

Soothsayer

August 31st, 2011
9:44 am

(ir)Rational

August 31st, 2011
9:44 am

GLL – typically, I find your posts entertaining, or at the least not annoying, but you’re really pissing me off today. So instead of asking you to shut up or leave, I’m simply going to leave. I’m not in the mood for your sh*t today. The rest of you have a nice day.

Oh-well. Who is John Galt?

Hootinanny Yum Yum

August 31st, 2011
9:45 am

So, I guess none of this off-shoring occurred while Democrats controlled both houses of Congress. And, I assume all those lobbying dollars are directed at GOP members. Democrats are not the beneficiary of any of those dollars.

Democrats, pure as the driven snow.

Granny Godzilla

August 31st, 2011
9:45 am

Mighty Righty

Actually you are right about Berkshire Hathoway oweing taxes…but since the IRS and he both admit it you can put your cover up allegation
back in that happy place your keep all the rest of your conspiracy theories.

Adam

August 31st, 2011
9:46 am

GLL: The number one way to fight the class warfare fight: Get a job.

Then what are you doing here GLL?

Mick

August 31st, 2011
9:46 am

Class warfare? Absolutely, and they win every time and why not? They own our gov’t not the people, what a concept…

Common Sense

August 31st, 2011
9:46 am

“The more you guys support wealth redistribution upwards and declining wages for everyone else, the closer you bring us to the very Marxist revolution you fear.”

Then let’s cut to the chase and have that Marxist Revolution. You are wasting time.

Maybe because in the end no one wants to be controlled, yet they want to control others? Is that what the stumbling block is?

Put your asset sharing principles out there.

Those that love freedom are not afraid. Freedom is worth fighting for.

Lowering a CEO’s pay that’s none of your business? Rally your troops.

Granny Godzilla

August 31st, 2011
9:48 am

GLL

I have 1 full time and 2 part time….

However you are wrong about it being the best way to fight the battles of class warfare. Way wrong.

Information is the key.

larry

August 31st, 2011
9:49 am

Oh-well. Who is John Galt?

He lives in Douglasville and owns John Galt INC. Its on Sullivan dr.

Good Little Liberal

August 31st, 2011
9:49 am

Adam

I’m making lots of money right now.

Lots.

willie lynch

August 31st, 2011
9:49 am

Once again we have a group trying to frame the discussion around wealth envy. Common sense is at work here as usual and good sense is still waiting to be found.

In the words of that great sage Moe Howard, “what a bubch of numbskulls”.

Mighty Righty

August 31st, 2011
9:49 am

larry

August 31st, 2011
9:42 am
I never said 60 votes were not required to stop a filiibuster. Re-read my post. I said the Republicans did not threaten a filibuster.

Paul

August 31st, 2011
9:50 am

Another case of data vs. sound bites and bumper stickers.

Guess which one wins with the Republican base?

I skimmed thru a couple pages. Aside from jimmy asserting corporations have to do this because our tax rate is too high, did anyone seriously refute anything Jay wrote?

Bradley

August 31st, 2011
9:50 am

Mary Elizabeth @ 8:34am is spot on. I honestly don’t understand why so many people fail to realize this. Corporate greed is slowly killing the avereage American.

Common Sense

August 31st, 2011
9:50 am

“Information is the key.”

If it’s none of your business, it’s not the key.

Mind your own business.

Keep Up the Good Fight!

August 31st, 2011
9:50 am

Why is it that someone is so delusional as to confuse a discussion about CEO pay and taxes and try to turn it into a discussion to force contributions to the poor?

CEO of public corporations have a responsibility to their shareholders. Because of lax laws and other market distortions, shareholders do not have real control over the pay of their CEO employees. In addtion, as pointed out, often CEO pay exceeds what profitable corporations are actually paying in taxes for the services they are getting from the federal government.

Seems the real redistribution is the distorted nonsensical arguments.

Morrus

August 31st, 2011
9:50 am

You can blame CEOs or you can blame their lobbyists but the true blame should land in the laps of ur ELECTED representatives. Easily bought because they need cash to stay in the race.

Good Little Liberal

August 31st, 2011
9:51 am

Granny

Three jobs and you still have class envy? Sounds like we need a change in our government. Too many working poor.

Soothsayer

August 31st, 2011
9:51 am

Poor Boy from Alabama

August 31st, 2011
9:51 am

JB,

Here’s the list

Company: Percent Change in CEO compensation over 2009

Stanley Black & Decker: +253%
Ford: +48%
Chesapeake Energy: +13%
Aon: +100%
Bank of New York Mellon: +73%
Coca-Cola Enterprises: +71%
Verizon: + 4%
Dow Chemical: +13%
Prudential Financial: +10%
Ameriprise: -11%
Honeywell: +15%
General Electric: +172%
Allegheny Technologies: +48%
Mylan Laboratories: +27%
Capital One Financial: +144%
Wynn Resorts Ltd.: +74%
Marsh & McLennan: +1%
Boeing: 0%
Motorola Solutions: +62%
Nabors Industries: -42%
Qwest Communications: +12%
Cablevision Systems: -21%
Motorola Mobility: +245%
eBay: +22%
International Paper: +75%

There’s no rhyme or reason to this list. These companies represent a broad array of industries and some of them are run by CEO’s who took pay cuts last year. Many of these companies are in cyclical industries. It’s only natural that they would have tax loss carry-forwards and that their CEO’s compensation would jump after the recession ended. Arguing about CEO compensation is a distraction. The real point here is that the tax code needs to be overhauled.

Good Little Liberal

August 31st, 2011
9:52 am

Keep Up

Why are you still humping my leg?

Common Sense

August 31st, 2011
9:52 am

“did anyone seriously refute anything Jay wrote?”

Why must it be refuted? These are private sector companies that have no obligation to justify anything to Jay Bookman.

Brosephus

August 31st, 2011
9:52 am

larry: Except you shouldnt have to just accept it. District Attorney’s run for office, work like hell to get them out when a breach of justice like you discribed happens. Sheriffs run for office too.

Sounds good, but when you’re talking small town AL, it’s not gonna happen. Right after my grandfather was killed, the city ran all kinds of operations to ticket people running red lights since he was killed by a girl that ran a red light. One intersection was so bad, the police couldn’t catch everybody to write them a citation.

I still have a copy of the accident report. The girl wasn’t cited on the spot for running the light even though eyewitness accounts all stated she did. The spot she hit my grandfather was more than enough evidence to show she ran the light too. In order to even get her to face any charges, my family had to swear out a warrant for her arrest. The ADA, who is now the DA, did absolutely nothing beyond paying lip service to my family about getting her indicted. That’s one of the reasons I don’t go home more than once every 3-5 years.

Left wing management

August 31st, 2011
9:53 am

If capitalism was intended to do one thing and one thing only, which is to make the rich even richer, and to make the already super rich even more fabulously rich, then capitalism is doing its job just brilliantly right now.

So in one sense I don’t know what all the fuss is about.

This is clearly what the system is built to do. The fact that corporate bigwigs have figured out ways to pad their nest in even more spectacular and efficient ways is not a knock on a system that was built to do just that.

Keep Up the Good Fight!

August 31st, 2011
9:54 am

GLL: Still telling others how “classy” you are?

Brosephus

August 31st, 2011
9:55 am

paul: skimmed thru a couple pages. Aside from jimmy asserting corporations have to do this because our tax rate is too high, did anyone seriously refute anything Jay wrote?

Did you expect anything beyond the usual divert and deflect defense?

willie lynch

August 31st, 2011
9:55 am

“and when they give themselves an average pay increase of 28 percent in a time of great economic hardship for millions — that is not class warfare or wealth redistribution”.

“No, it is only class warfare when you are rude enough to notice such things”.

The truth, the whole truth…

Keep Up the Good Fight!

August 31st, 2011
9:56 am

Private sector companies? Try publicly held companies with obligations to make disclosures to shareholders.

Soothsayer

August 31st, 2011
9:57 am

suwanee dawg

August 31st, 2011
9:57 am

Not sure why or how an article on taxes and CEO pay leads to racism comments in the blog. CEO pay is high and the investment community should address (not the government), but this article fails to address the real issue that our corporate tax structure is too high and to burdensome to comply. My company was looking to shift profits from the US (Fed Rate of 35% and state rates around 5%) to other countries including Singapore (18%) with much lower rates. If you want to promote economic growth like this country has never seen, cut and simplify both corporate and personal income taxes.

Common Sense

August 31st, 2011
9:57 am

Capitalism balances supply and demand in the markets, providing the incentive to meet that demand.

If these companies were not doing this, they would fail, and there would be no salaries.

Capitalism was not a creation in a class room. It is the natural, most efficient way to operate.

You may as well fight Mother Nature if you are willing to fight Capitalism.

Amazingly, the same political party tries to do both.

Good Little Liberal

August 31st, 2011
9:57 am

Left wing management

I couldn’t agree more. But the part that you left out is that capitalism allows anyone with the brains and the motivation to become rich. It’s sort of economical Darwinism

I’m not wealthy so I’m not at the top of the food chain, but I sure don’t hate the people that have made it.

Joe Mama

August 31st, 2011
9:58 am

Talking Head — “fact – lib rats always need to someone to hate on”

Ah, irony, your taste is so sweet. :D

1811/0311

August 31st, 2011
9:58 am

I wonder how many times Jay’s salary is vs. someone just on food stamps?

Of course the IRS takes voluntary contributions anytime Jay wants to make them.

Good Little Liberal

August 31st, 2011
9:58 am

Keep Up

UsinUK set the standards.

And you are STILL humping my leg.

Granny Godzilla

August 31st, 2011
9:59 am

GLL

Working Poor? I suspect you are an example of the genus

workingpoorius voteagainstbestinterestus

Common Sense

common sense says if it’s a publically traded company it is MY business.

Common Sense

August 31st, 2011
9:59 am

Shareholders: Their business. They can address it it numerous ways. # 1 sell the stock. But there must be participating in a mutually beneficial situation, or they would not be holding the stock would they? But the answer is the same. Sell the stock and make it none of your business.

Non-Shareholders: None of your business.

??

August 31st, 2011
9:59 am

Houston, TX can report an AP story about APD, but AJC can’t? Seems a bit shady. What gives AJC? http://www.chron.com/news/article/Audit-85-Atlanta-officers-lost-arrest-powers-2148062.php

stevie ray

August 31st, 2011
10:00 am

Interesting statistics I came across yesterday. In Florida and NC, average unemployment is consistent with national average yet for african americans, it is closer to 20%. We are finding that the rate is generally 100% higher for african americans than others, even hispanics. This is an embarassing and ridiculous situation that’s gonna keep many of those who voted in record numbers in 2008 away from the polls.

I’ve always felt the “warfare” in class warfare is overly dramatic. Too many variables involved to assign blame to any single source for the delta between the haves and have nots. Seems cyclical to me.

Good Little Liberal

August 31st, 2011
10:01 am

1811/0311

Be careful about saying anything about what liberals make. I’ve stirred up a hornet’s nest this morning. Apparently they think that it’s no body’s business what THEY make.

stands for decibels

August 31st, 2011
10:01 am

I didn’t say the country/world was full of them ………… God did.

If the shoes fits wear it ………… otherwise press on !

Here is what you wrote, quoted in its entirety:

This is why today’s speech by Gov. Rick Perry rings so true. We need the “real church” to stand up and be counted:

“An unholy church is useless to the world. It is of no value. It is an abomination. It is hell’s laughter and heaven’s abhorrence. The worst evils that have ever come on the world have been brought by an unholy church.”

Charles Spurgeon

Alas, our country is full of “unholy” churches and even entire “unholy” denominations.

Just sayin ……………………………

Stop being such a wuss, 1811, and name these “unholy” denominations. It wasn’t some other guy who proclaimed that our country is “full of entire unholy denominations.” it was you.

Name them.

(Anyone who thinks I’m being unfair to 1811, let me know. I think I’m entitled to know what he meant, without further dodges and deceptions.)

Uncle Jed

August 31st, 2011
10:01 am

According to the Institute of Policy Studies, a liberal think tank
+++++++++++++

And then I stopped reading.

But I did wonder, based upon the headline; how much profit did Uncle Sam generate within these corporations? My guess, ZERO.

The Thin Guy

August 31st, 2011
10:01 am

Movie stars, athletes, and lawyers are overpaid. The Gorbot is making a mint with The Glow Bull Luke Warming Scam. The senior senator for Massachusetts parks his $ 7 million yacht in a neighboring state so he can escape the yacht tax. And Jug Ears is riding around the country in two $ 1.1 million dollars Canadian Death Star buses that get 6.7 miles per gallon (one for him and one for The Teleprompter). CEOs have to be highly paid so they can afford to bribe democrats. BTW, corporations don’t pay taxes; their shareholders do.

Common Sense

August 31st, 2011
10:02 am

Granny doesn’t understand how the term public has two different uses here?

Publically means all private citizens can participate if they choose to.

It does not obligate them to make the non-owners happy.

So if you are a non-owner, it’s none of your business.

Corporate tax rate 2nd highest in the world

August 31st, 2011
10:03 am

Maybe if the corporate tax rate wasn’t the 2nd highest in the world, about a tenth of 1 percent behind Japan’s, corporations wouldn’t feel the need to offshore money in order to remain competitive. Ya’ll simpletons ever think about that? Naw. Probably not.

Butch Cassidy

August 31st, 2011
10:03 am

Average income in the U.S. is around $50,000. For every million dollars a CEO makes, you could hire 20 employees at the average rate. So is it really asking a lot that perhaps a CEO take a 5 million dollar cut in return for bringing back 100 people to work, which will in turn contribute to the economic crowth of our consumer driven economy? Or does that just make too much sense?

Mary Elizabeth

August 31st, 2011
10:04 am

Bradley @ 9:50

Thank you for noticing this trend that is not in the interests of the average American, and for stating your thoughts about it here. The more people will speak up – as you and I have done this morning (as well as others) – the more the majority of average Americans will realize that what has been happening in our nation, especially in the past decade, has not been in their best interests – as well as how they have been manipulated to not see it.

Soothsayer

August 31st, 2011
10:05 am

Normal

August 31st, 2011
10:05 am

“I’m making lots of money right now.

Lots.”

Yeah…working for tips at the Eagle Club… :D

Common Sense

August 31st, 2011
10:05 am

“So is it really asking a lot that perhaps a CEO take a 5 million dollar cut in return for bringing back 100 people to work, which will in turn contribute to the economic growth of our consumer driven economy?”

Since you asked, yes it is too much.

Because it is none of your business. Who are you to demand that someone else earn less for the benefit of others?

Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)

August 31st, 2011
10:06 am

Well, here we go again. Wealth Envy. Bookman won’t be satisfied till everybody’s making the same thing. That’s a librul for you. People make what they make because of Choices. People that don’t make much money made Bad Choices. People that make alot of money made Good Choices. That’s just the way it is in a Free Innerprize system. Course, it helps to know the right people. I wouldn’t of made it all the way up to beer truck driver without knowing Elmer Goodwin. He put in the good word for me down at the warehouse. Otherwise, I’d still be hanging sheetrock and walking on those stilts to put sheetrock mud on ceilings and then use the brush to make the pattern.

Anyway, I don’t mind if some people mak $10 million a year. $10 million don’t go as far as it use to. Before you know it you’re out of money and don’t have a penny to put into some derivative that comes along and could make you rich. And after you pay for all the upkeep on your mansion and vacation homes you barely have enough left to pay for your country club memberships.

I like this system, unlike the libruls. I figure I’m in for at least a 2% raise in December. Another 50 years or so and I’ll be right up there with the big boys. Maybe get that doublewide I always wanted and another flat screen TV. And the biggest ass pickup you ever seen.

Have a good Wednesday everybody.

Granny Godzilla

August 31st, 2011
10:07 am

Common Sense

again common sense says publically traded company – info is public.

sorry you don’t care for it, but tough stuff.

i never invest in a company without investigating it…do you?

and if you do, how can you if info required to be public ain’t?

do you guess? eeny meeny miney mo?

RB from Gwinnett

August 31st, 2011
10:07 am

I’m not afraid to say it. We DO need to tax poor more (some at all!!) and every increase in taxes should affect them by the same percentage. As long as half the country has no skin in the game, there is no “WE” and we cease to be in this together. When “WE” have a stake in what our government does and how they perform (or don’t), then “WE” will have the incentive to do something about it. As long as 47% have no incentive at all, “WE” are going to continue to do nothing.

Sarah

August 31st, 2011
10:07 am

Who would Marv Albert bite?

stevie ray

August 31st, 2011
10:08 am

Butch, it’s not that simple. First, including benefits et al, your $50,000 salary actually costs the company $75,000. Second, if demand for this company’s products is flat, what exactly are these 100 people gonna do everyday? Additionally, at salary of $50,000 contributes virtually zero dollars in federal income tax…..

Butch Cassidy

August 31st, 2011
10:08 am

Common Sense – “Because it is none of your business. Who are you to demand that someone else earn less for the benefit of others?’

Sorry, I guess your one of the supporters of the 9% unemployment rate. My statement merely indicated that it is possible to reduce unemployment in this country wothout hitting the profit margins of the organization, if 1 individual was willing to compromise for the good of everyone.

jt

August 31st, 2011
10:08 am

Lytil Jhon and Robyne Hude
Wayth-men ware commendyd gude
In Yngil-wode and Barnysdale
Thai oysyd all this tyme thare trawale.
.
There is a reason why Robin Hood’s message has lasted 600 years……………600 years!

Robin Hood did not steal from the rich and give to the poor.(Demo-Prog talking points).
Nor did he steal from the poor to give to the rich.(R&D Federal Party Reality).
.
Through clever shenanigans and outright hi-jacks, he allowed the poor to keep/shield their wealth from a corrupt government authority.
.
Don’t go down in history as a Sheriff of Nottingham.

USinUK

August 31st, 2011
10:09 am

“and when they give themselves an average pay increase of 28 percent in a time of great economic hardship for millions — that is not class warfare or wealth redistribution.”

what’s the 2011 equivalent for “let them eat cake” because that is surely what the CEOs are saying.

USinUK

August 31st, 2011
10:10 am

There’s class warfare, all right, but it’s my class, the rich class, that’s making war, and we’re winning.
-Warren Buffet

Brosephus

August 31st, 2011
10:10 am

Interesting statistics I came across yesterday. In Florida and NC, average unemployment is consistent with national average yet for african americans, it is closer to 20%. We are finding that the rate is generally 100% higher for african americans than others, even hispanics. This is an embarassing and ridiculous situation that’s gonna keep many of those who voted in record numbers in 2008 away from the polls.

Not very interesting from my perspective. AA unemployment rates have been twice the national average for as long as I can remember. There was the old saying that I would need to be “twice as smart, twice as good, and work twice as hard” just to be on an even level with others. Guess that saying was rooted in some fact after all.

larry

August 31st, 2011
10:10 am

Brosephus

August 31st, 2011
9:52 am

I guess its just the idealist in me that you can fight back but i know the feeling being raised in small town GA. The ADA should have gone after her and made her pay.

I am sorry for the loss of your grandfather.

Good Little Liberal

August 31st, 2011
10:10 am

Granny Godzilla

Nah, I do alright. I’ll be able to pay off the loan for the land to build the new digs up here in the sticks around October and the house was paid for before it was finished. I drive an older car and a very old pick up. Mostly, I stay away from debt as much as possible and keep my expenses very low.

Since moving away from Atlanta, that’s been a lot easier. Its how the government should work. A few years ago I decided that I didn’t need a huge income if I could get rid of a lot of my costs. I stopped buying new cars every year. Spent every dime I had paying off the credit cards, started a little internet business that pays a few bills every month ( and nothing more)

You could make a lot more money than working three jobs, just by starting an internet company. You just need to find a way to do it. It’s not easy, but once you do it, it’s a lot easier than working all those jobs.

stevie ray

August 31st, 2011
10:10 am

Butch, again I challenge your argument that randomly hiring for the sake of reducing unemployment doesn’t float unless a corresponding increase in demand for said product exists…

Joe Mama

August 31st, 2011
10:10 am

Kayaker71 — “Once the money is deposited in a 401K, it is you who determines what the account will produce. The evil corporation has nothing to do with it.”

It sounds like you’re saying that 401k holders are to blame for the 2008 meltdown. Maybe you should back up and rephrase that, Champ.

USinUK

August 31st, 2011
10:10 am

“Who would Marv Albert bite?”

good gravy … there’s a blast from the past

Bosch

August 31st, 2011
10:10 am

“As long as half the country has no skin in the game”

This argument makes no sense. How does one equate paying income tax to not having a connection to the country in which they are citizens?

Corporate tax rate 2nd highest in the world

August 31st, 2011
10:11 am

common sense says if it’s a publically traded company it is MY business- Granny Godzilla

Being publicly traded means nada. It is still owned by private individuals, people’s 401ks, mutual and pension funds, etc. As long as this company operates within the bounds of the law it is none of your business what they do unless you own part of that company. And even then you have very little say unless you own a significant portion of said company. You’re probably one of those people who think its nobody’s business what a woman does in relation to abortion which is the extinguishment of a human life but yet you think its everybody’s business what a particular corporation is doing. It isn’t. As long as they are operating legally it aint none of your dang business at all. None.

Mighty Righty

August 31st, 2011
10:11 am

Granny Godzilla

August 31st, 2011
9:59 am

common sense says if it’s a publically traded company it is MY business

My common sense tells me that anyone who doesn’t own stock in a company should not concern themselves with what that company does so long as what thecompany is doing is not illegal and is not harming the public. Further, if one does want to stick their nose in something that is not of their business, that person should put their money where their mouth is and purchase shares in said company. Such purchase gives all who own shares a vote in what the company does. Otherwise MYOB.

Common Sense

August 31st, 2011
10:12 am

Granny displays a false logic.

The information is public. So make your choice as to whether or not ti invest.

That is not the same as demanding that those salaries for companies be lowered.

It becomes none of your business when you are not an owner of the corporation and you try to tell them what to pay their employees.

Do you get the difference? Probably not. Because it’s a tough concept to grasp.

But I will help you. To apply YOUR logic, your neighbors should be able to address how may kids you have because THEY are paying for public schools.

And what would your response to them be? That’s what I thought.

It’s none of THEIR business.

Brosephus

August 31st, 2011
10:12 am

Because it is none of your business. Who are you to demand that someone else earn less for the benefit of others?

Unless we move back to company provided defined pensions and away from market invested 401k’s, IT IS the business of every damn body who’s invested in the market. When my retirement is dependent upon those companies, it’s every bit my business of what decisions they make. The GOP wants to kill SS. The GOP wants to kill fed pensions. All I may end up with by the time I retire is my market plan.

getalife

August 31st, 2011
10:13 am

They are not cons anymore.

They are wealthers fighting for the wealth care party.

The wealthy can get all the money in this country and the wealthers will still blindly fight for them.

Leaving their kids with no chance of making a livable wage.

You can’t fix this kind of ignorance.

You just have to laugh.

Bosch

August 31st, 2011
10:13 am

Cultural hegemony people….look it up. It’s a Marxist philosophy so embraced by our wingnut friends like GLL.

Soothsayer

August 31st, 2011
10:13 am

I love these kind of blogs. You see the Righties walking the talking points right over straight from Focked News. Never mind that they’re half-truthes and/or outright lies.

Monkey hear, monkey say. That’s the way it is when you get your information from rote knowledge rather than trying to ascertain the real truth.

So, therefore, Jay’s blog is reduced to an endless refutation of Right-wing talking. No matter how many time they’re proven false, they just keep walking the talking points.

Out for the day.

stands for decibels

August 31st, 2011
10:13 am

Since you asked, yes it is too much.

Because it is none of your business.

Hmm. an idea.

Why don’t we take this to the people to decide as a major 2012 campaign issue? Maybe working Americans will take to heart this Ayn Randian concept that other people’s incomes and livelihoods are simply their business and we shouldn’t even think about how much they’re taxed.

Or, not. Whaddaya think? Think that’s a winner for the GOP?

stevie ray

August 31st, 2011
10:13 am

Brocephus, love your moniker by the way….on one the better ones on this forum. Agree with your comments with the exception that african american unemployment was half of current levels in 2008 and when you get upwards of 20%, its so much more apparent…I know I’d be screaming louder. Too bad the fed’s ability to materially affect unemployment either way is more limited than most think…

Butch Cassidy

August 31st, 2011
10:14 am

stevie ray – “Butch, again I challenge your argument that randomly hiring for the sake of reducing unemployment doesn’t float unless a corresponding increase in demand for said product exists…”

I’m not saying to hire at random, however it’s been documented that companies are squeezing more out of their workers rather than hiring more to offset the load. No problem doing that, but increasing CEO pay at the expense of the existing works is BS. Take less at the to, redistribute it to the working staff i.e. hiring, and let those dollars work their way through the economy. 20,40,50 more employees will contribute a lot more to the growth of the econamy that 1 CEO possibly can.

stands for decibels

August 31st, 2011
10:14 am

Also, about this “the rate is sooooooooo high” nonsense…this

(which is from this.

Martin the Calvinist

August 31st, 2011
10:15 am

I believe a lower tax rate on income and corporations are in order here. But those should come at the expense of all the deductions individuals and corporations get. But common sense tax policies will never come because some donors, (both political parties) have helped create the tax policies.

on a side note, isn’t it funny the President for three straight years after his August vacation has proposed a “jobs” bill that is exactly the same and has done not one bit of good.

USinUK

August 31st, 2011
10:15 am

Bosch – “This argument makes no sense. How does one equate paying income tax to not having a connection to the country in which they are citizens?”

it makes them subhuman, doncha know

Thulsa Doom

August 31st, 2011
10:15 am

To the contrary Bosch. It makes all the sense in the world. The reason is because when half the country does not pay taxes what is to stop them from using the ballot box to vote themselves goodies paid for by the other half of the country? Its nothing more than theft with the ballot box enabling one group to take from another group at will. And as De Tocqueville said and as we see with the debt being accumulated it will surely be the ruination of this once great nation.

Bosch

August 31st, 2011
10:16 am

Hey Paul,

It looks like stands is going to be joining our club of asking wingnuts direct questions and watching them squirm away in a vain attempt to dodge and deflect from answering their obvious bs hyperbole, and when called upon it, instead of just admitting they were using such hyperbole.

Granny Godzilla

August 31st, 2011
10:16 am

GLL

Thanks for the advice, but I’m actually very happy and actually blessed
in my employment situation.

After crashing the glass ceiling at a fortune 100 company two decades ago….I find this life much more satisfying.

USinUK

August 31st, 2011
10:16 am

“It’s a Marxist philosophy so embraced by our wingnut friends like GLL.”

I don’t think “embraced” is quite the word I would use.

out of the blue

August 31st, 2011
10:17 am

MR…”Now we find out his company doesn’t even pay taxes it owes and most likely his conspirators in the administration will cover for him. What a joke!

Righty “WE” Now WE find out Buffett’s company doesn’t even pay taxes it owes!

Why, I do believe you posted that same BS the other day. And cited as proof, an article
by The New York POST. A company owned by that sainted Rupert Murdoch!

Brosephus

August 31st, 2011
10:17 am

larry

My headstrong idealism got powerbombed in that instance. I moved from idealism to realism after that. I’ve learned to live with the choices I have and not fuss over the things I have no control over. Our society has become so self-fixiated that not too many people stop what they’re doing to help others in need. I learned then that it’s sometimes better to help someone out with problems, even when you have problems of your own. Just a wee bit of help goes a long way towards making people feel better in different situations.

Keep Up the Good Fight!

August 31st, 2011
10:17 am

GLL: I’ve stirred up a hornet’s nest this morning. Apparently they think that it’s no body’s business what THEY make.

Well actually no. But Jay did make an offer to post on an equitable basis. So apparently part of your chicken humper distortion routine is to say one thing and do another. Rinse and repeat?

So have you sent your tax returns to Jay yet. When should he expect them? Or is this a lot of cluck, cluck.

USinUK

August 31st, 2011
10:17 am

“The reason is because when half the country does not pay taxes what is to stop them from using the ballot box to vote themselves goodies paid for by the other half of the country?”

that’s right!

let’s return to the days when only the landed gentry could vote!!

huzzah!

Joe Mama

August 31st, 2011
10:18 am

jm – “Tax return penis measuring

Faaaantastic fun

This should be entertaining”

I wonder if we will be measuring gross income, net or just from the base to the tip? :D

Mighty Righty

August 31st, 2011
10:19 am

Unlike our elected representives, CEO compensation is determined by the board of directors and the shareholders. There are people posting here stating the CEO’s determine their own pay which is uninformed non sense.

Good Little Liberal

August 31st, 2011
10:19 am

Keep Up

What is that on my leg?

Thulsa Doom

August 31st, 2011
10:19 am

isn’t it funny the President for three straight years after his August vacation has proposed a “jobs” bill that is exactly the same and has done not one bit of good.- Martin the calvinist

Martin,

Nope. Its not at all unexpected to me. Its the same ole same ole SSDD nonsense from Obama. But there are a lot of stupid people out there who will soak it up as if he is actually proposing something entirely new. I call them liberals sheeple and they go baa baa.

Uncle Jed

August 31st, 2011
10:20 am

Bradley @ 9:50

Thank you for noticing this trend that is not in the interests of the average American, and for stating your thoughts about it here.
++++++++++++++++++++++

Teacher awards Bradley a gold star. Next time try a Hallmark because:

“When You Care Enough, Send the Very Best”

Adam

August 31st, 2011
10:20 am

GLL: I’m making lots of money right now.

Lots.

So you admit to being paid to post BS.

Martin the Calvinist

August 31st, 2011
10:20 am

So Jay, what are you suggesting we do about this little “problem” you’ve introduced? Maybe liberals are dreaming Obama pull a Hugo Chavez and nationalize all the corporations. All the books Obama have written suggests that Marxist economic policies are ones he desires to implement.

Brosephus

August 31st, 2011
10:21 am

stevie ray: Agree with your comments with the exception that african american unemployment was half of current levels in 2008 and when you get upwards of 20%, its so much more apparent…

Look at historical rates. When AA unemployment was half the current rates in 2008, compare it with the national average. There’s been an almost consistent 2:1 ratio for a long time. I’m not all that old, but it’s been that way as long as I can remember. AA employment follows the LIFO method, Last In, First Out. Just a fact of life here in the US. Prior to integration, AA unemployment didn’t follow the 2:1 ratio.

Peadawg

August 31st, 2011
10:22 am

I don’t really get the point of this blog besides a whole lot of wealth envy. The million $ question is how much do we tax the “rich”? I’m all for taxing the rich more along w/ significant spending cuts, but how much more?

Joe Mama

August 31st, 2011
10:22 am

Stands — “Stop being such a wuss, 1811, and name these “unholy” denominations.”

What’s the over-under on him naming the Scientologists in that group? (pops corn)

Thulsa Doom

August 31st, 2011
10:22 am

USinUK,

Did I advocate some nonsense about feudal society or a society where only the landed gentry could vote? Nope. Just echoing the sentiment that everyone should have skin in the game. But your hyperbole and empty rhetoric is amusing nonetheless- and sadly it was very expected and sooo predictable.

getalife

August 31st, 2011
10:23 am

No new wealth care.

Say it with me wealthers.

No new wealth care.

Yeah right.

You wealthers will not stop until your children work for a dollar an hour.

Then you will kick them on the streets like you want to do with the Seniors.

Hilarious.

stevie ray

August 31st, 2011
10:24 am

Brocephis, we are saying the same thing but I don’t understand your comment about “before integration”..??

Adam

August 31st, 2011
10:26 am

RB: I’m not afraid to say it. We DO need to tax poor more (some at all!!) and every increase in taxes should affect them by the same percentage. As long as half the country has no skin in the game, there is no “WE” and we cease to be in this together. When “WE” have a stake in what our government does and how they perform (or don’t), then “WE” will have the incentive to do something about it. As long as 47% have no incentive at all, “WE” are going to continue to do nothing.

For those interested, this is what REAL class warfare looks like.

Good Little Liberal

August 31st, 2011
10:27 am

Granny

I can see that. The rat race is for rats. I like this laid back lifestyle up here a lot more. I go back to Atlanta about once a month and I am amazed at how rude everybody seems.

You should think about the internet thing, though. It’s found money. If you go into it not expecting to make millions, it can be done relatively easily and actually with almost no money. You live in Atlanta where things can be gotten pretty easily. The only real problem with living up here in the sticks is that I do most of my shopping on the internet. My site gets about 99% of the orders from small towns.

But for God’s sake stay away from these guys who teach classes on how to make money on the internet. That’s how they are making money: they are teaching classes. Just figure out something that you like or like to do and find a few products to sell around that business. Sign up for Pay Pal and you are done. I make a few grand a year, enough to pay a few bills, but that really helps considering that I do nothing to make the money.

Bosch

August 31st, 2011
10:27 am

Doom,

I dunno, something tells me, and yes, this is just all speculation to me, but something tells me those folks don’t keep up with politics like we do and something tells me they aren’t out voting in droves.

“Its nothing more than theft with the ballot box enabling one group to take from another group at will. And as De Tocqueville said and as we see with the debt being accumulated it will surely be the ruination of this once great nation”

OH THE HUMANITY!!! (And melodrama :roll: )

stevie ray

August 31st, 2011
10:28 am

Butch, shareholders will look askance at hiring for the reasons you mentioned. Adding employees to allow others a lightened load simply for the benefit of society will never float with corporate boards who face very expensive derivative suits in the event of hits on EPS that affect performance compared to peers or market in general. Quite a system…

Uncle Jed

August 31st, 2011
10:28 am

I sure am glad that the democrat party has toned down the rhetoric. You would never hear this from a member of the Congressional White Caucus…

Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks ‘hanging on a tree’

A top lawmaker in the Congressional Black Caucus says tea partiers on Capitol Hill would like to see African-Americans hanging from trees and accuses the movement of wishing for a return to the Jim Crow era.

Rep. Andre Carson, a Democrat from Indiana who serves as the CBC’s chief vote counter, said at a CBC event in Miami that some in Congress would “love to see us as second-class citizens” and “some of them in Congress right now of this tea party movement would love to see you and me … hanging on a tree.”

Carson also said the tea party is stopping change in Congress, likening it to “the effort that we’re seeing of Jim Crow.”

And some fretted Bachmann joking about the cause of earthquakes and hurricanes. Hmmm

Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0811/62396.html#ixzz1WcHwJUBy

Left wing management

August 31st, 2011
10:29 am

Common Sense: “Shareholders: Their business. They can address it it numerous ways. # 1 sell the stock. … Non-Shareholders: None of your business.”

Common, your assumption is that there is a natural division between stockholders and non-stockholders, and by extension that there is nothing political about that setup. But surely you know that there is nothing more political – more ideologically freighted – than the profit system and corporate governance system that is weighted so extremely towards the “stockholder” as it is in Wild Wild West Anglo-American capitalism (as opposed to Continental European capitalism, where at least there have traditionally been some restraints on this). You do realize that, don’t you?

By the way, Common, I’m amused in a way at your nom de blog. Are you aware of the critique of “common sense” of the great Marxist Gramsci?

Adam

August 31st, 2011
10:29 am

Common Sense: That is not the same as demanding that those salaries for companies be lowered.

Please, anywhere in this thread, find a post that says this is what we need to do.

USinUK

August 31st, 2011
10:29 am

“Just echoing the sentiment that everyone should have skin in the game.”

no – what you’re saying is that the people who don’t have “skin in the game” are abusing the ballot box to get more “goodies” …

so, yeah – let’s return to the days when only people who have “skin in the game” can vote! only people who pay income taxes are eligible! only people who pay property taxes are eligible!

at least have the courage of your convictions to say what you really mean, Thulsa. When you don’t, it just makes you look spineless.

go get ‘em Thulsa!!!

Brosephus

August 31st, 2011
10:30 am

Brocephis, we are saying the same thing but I don’t understand your comment about “before integration”..??

Prior to integration, the AA unemployment rate did not follow the 2:1 ratio that it pretty much does now because everything in society was duplicated. You had businesses for Whites and businesses for Blacks. Blacks were employed in the Black businesses because they could only work in limited areas in White businesses, if they were allowed to work at all.

Post-integration, AA employment has typically been LIFO, Last In, First Out. It doesn’t always follow that method, but AA unemployment in the past few decades has averaged around twice the national average. There’s different reasons for that, but the average has been that way for a while.

Good Little Liberal

August 31st, 2011
10:31 am

Adam

“So you admit to being paid to post BS.”

I own my own business. The only person paying me is me. It’s the American way.

So who is paying you right now?

Bosch

August 31st, 2011
10:31 am

And Doom,

“when half the country does not pay taxes what is to stop them from using the ballot box to vote themselves goodies paid for by the other half of the country?”

Are you really going to sit there with a straight face and tell me that this voting block has THAT much power?

Oh just damn that’s so ridiculous.

Uncle Jed

August 31st, 2011
10:31 am

It’s the last day of the month. 10:23 must have run out of meds ;-)

stands for decibels

August 31st, 2011
10:32 am

What’s the over-under on him naming the Scientologists in that group? (pops corn)

Sorry for the off-topic / soap operatic post, but…

If the past is any guide, 1811/Scout will just wait me out, figuring I’ll stop asking.

Like I did about a year or so ago when Scout posted that there are regulars here in the comments page who “secretly loathe the military.” I thought that was very interesting, not just in how Scout is capable of reading minds over the internet, but of course which secret-loathers he might mean.

So I asked. Three separate times.

He completely avoided me, never answered, and I gave up, figuring maybe I was just being petty. After all, it was just a stray thought, and he’s just talking about other mostly-anonymous comments page people, right?

But when he steps out and claims that entire denominations are unholy, and that the US is full of them?

I think that deserves some elaboration. and twice now he’s tried to pull a fast one, and I don’t think I should just let that go. I think he needs to tell us which denominations (and since he used that term, I’m assuming he means Christian denominations, not, you know, tens and twenties?) he meant.

Adam

August 31st, 2011
10:32 am

Peadawg: How much more? I would settle just for closing the special interest loopholes that only benefit the rich. At that point, they’d be paying closer to their actual rate, as opposed to around 15-20%, lower than most in the middle class.

Butch Cassidy

August 31st, 2011
10:33 am

stevie ray – “Butch, shareholders will look askance at hiring for the reasons you mentioned. Adding employees to allow others a lightened load simply for the benefit of society will never float with corporate boards who face very expensive derivative suits in the event of hits on EPS that affect performance compared to peers or market in general”

Alright then, what would be your suggestion for getting the unemployment rate down to reasonable levels?

Bosch

August 31st, 2011
10:33 am

And Doom, I will add, if you are a citizen in this country, you have “skin in the game.”

Adam

August 31st, 2011
10:33 am

GLL: I’ve answered that question numerous times. hint: It’s not a simple one-income answer.

Brosephus

August 31st, 2011
10:34 am

dB

Stay on him!!!!!!!!

Anybody that posts bullsh*t here, whether left or right, should be called on it.

larry

August 31st, 2011
10:34 am

I saw over the weekend another mutl-billionare wants the wealthy to pay more in taxes .

Mark Cuban on PIers Morgan

http://piersmorgan.blogs.cnn.com/2011/08/30/clips-from-last-night-mark-cuban-on-the-economy-and-transparency-cory-booker-on-bachmann/?iref=allsearch

Thulsa Doom

August 31st, 2011
10:35 am

Bosch,

I think we can all learn a little from history. When de Toceqville saw the remarkable experiment in U.S. democracy he gave us about 200 years before the collapse would begin. His reasoning was simple and so far profoundly true. Social creep and the idea that evententually a majority of people would realize they can just vote themselves goodies from the public trough paid for by others. With nearly half of us not paying federal income taxes, with one in 6 Americans on food stamps and with a good % of Americans drawing some type of benefit from the govt is there any doubt as to what is happening? Its happening right before our very eyes. Call it melodrama but we’re going broke and that is as plain as day to see.

Aquagirl

August 31st, 2011
10:35 am

The only real problem with living up here in the sticks is that I do most of my shopping on the internet. My site gets about 99% of the orders from small towns.

If it’s a physical product, this is only possible because of a heavily subsidized transportation system. But of course, your money is the sole product of your brilliance and individual effort, and any taxes you pay are only due to class warfare and wealth envy.

stevie ray

August 31st, 2011
10:37 am

Brocephus, seems over time that all minorities get to eat the sh*t sandwich with the african americans time in the penalty box being incomparable long. When 16% of the population comprises a geometrically higher percentage of national unemployment, something needs to get done. Question is what?

Joe Mama

August 31st, 2011
10:37 am

If people who don’t pay income taxes ‘don’t have any skin in the game’ and need to have their taxes increased, then why isn’t that also true for for corporations who don’t pay any taxes?

Don’t they also not have any ’skin in the game?’ And shouldn’t their taxes be raised? After all, we’re all in this together, right?

Bosch

August 31st, 2011
10:37 am

And Doom,

Don’t you honestly think that it’s just those oh so powerful poor voters that use the ballot box for their goodies?

Seriously, don’t you think these things through?

Good Little Liberal

August 31st, 2011
10:38 am

Adam

You haven’t answred it to me, but nice tap dance. I’ve said many times that I own my own business, but I took the time to explain to you, but I guess that’s just the difference in the two of us.

Paul

August 31st, 2011
10:38 am

Common Sense

““did anyone seriously refute anything Jay wrote?”

Why must it be refuted? These are private sector companies that have no obligation to justify anything to Jay Bookman.”

You honestly don’t see how their lobbying and political contributions to buy tax law changes that shift more of the tax burden to the less affluent in a time of economic hardship is not an issue?

And you can tag Brosephus’s 10:12 onto that.

Brosephus

“Did you expect anything beyond the usual divert and deflect defense?”

It’s their version of “I got nuthin’.”

getalife

“They are not cons anymore. They are wealthers fighting for the wealth care party. The wealthy can get all the money in this country and the wealthers will still blindly fight for them. Leaving their kids with no chance of making a livable wage. You can’t fix this kind of ignorance. You just have to laugh.”

Reminds me of chess – which was designed after real life medieval circumstances.

The wealthy nobility fought to preserve their wealth and privileges and to keep it away from the people who worked their estates. Just like in the game of chess, when a threat appeared they put the serfs (the ‘pawns’) in the front line to bear the brunt of the violence while they waited to do cleanup.

Cons. Modern day serfs defending their betters. And proud of it.

And Bosch plays the cultural hegemonist card and the audience chokes and says ‘wait…. cultural what?….”

Thulsa Doom

“The reason is because when half the country does not pay taxes what is to stop them from using the ballot box to vote themselves goodies paid for by the other half of the country?”

Are you really asserting this occurred because the low to middle class lobbied Congress to do it or got ballot initiatives to do it? Not because it was the result of credits and rate reductions put thru by the Bush Administration and their Republican (and Democratic) supporters in Congress back when they actually tried to practices the historical principles of conservatism?

“Just echoing the sentiment that everyone should have skin in the game.”

I’ve written for years it might be a good idea to have everyone, no matter if they pay no taxes or get dollars from credits, to send in a dollar just to make the point they’re part of this country and should give a little back.

How much of a tax increase for the poor do you advocate?

USinUK

August 31st, 2011
10:38 am

“Are you really going to sit there with a straight face and tell me that this voting block has THAT much power?”

yes. don’t you know the bottom 50% has more than 80% of the income???

oh. wait. no they don’t.

Zap Rowsdower

August 31st, 2011
10:39 am

Rat voter mantra: Make things about race, wealth envy and global scamming. In that order.

Bookman apparently can’t stand it that CEO’s, people who actually run a private business, make more money that he does. I wonder what he’d say about the Cox family?

getalife

August 31st, 2011
10:39 am

The best way to save money is layoff corrupt congress until after the election.

The wealth care party will vote no on jobs so they do not need to come back.

A new congress will work the President.

Bosch

August 31st, 2011
10:40 am

So Doom, did Tocqueville in his social analysis talk any about the upper two percent of people in a society that owns most of the money using their voting power and political influence to their advantage?

Because to me, that’s more of a problem.

Granny Godzilla

August 31st, 2011
10:40 am

GLL

Thanks again for your thoughts, my 2 part time jobs are
both small businesses that do, to some extent, utilize the net (a task made more difficult by our workings in China).

stands for decibels

August 31st, 2011
10:40 am

Stay on him

Funny, I was just pondering that somewhat oxidized, powder-burnt “WWSCD” bracelet on my wrist before spying this post. (Alas, I have lost my “WWHDD” bracelet; I miss it somethin’ fierce.)

USinUK

August 31st, 2011
10:40 am

“And Bosch plays the cultural hegemonist card and the audience chokes and says ‘wait…. cultural what?….””

:lol:

luv ya, Paul!!! :-)

Thulsa Doom

August 31st, 2011
10:40 am

“A top lawmaker in the Congressional Black Caucus says tea partiers on Capitol Hill would like to see African-Americans hanging from trees and accuses the movement of wishing for a return to the Jim Crow era”

When you can’t win the policy debate resort to hyperbole and empty rhetoric. This woman would make USinUK proud.

Zap Rowsdower

August 31st, 2011
10:40 am

Things Bookman ignores: Obama’s falling poll numbers, Europe falling apart, China building up a massive military and the nations AA rating.

2012 will be a monumental fail on Bookman’s part.

Willie

August 31st, 2011
10:40 am

Huffpo headline redux. Liberal hothouse. Yawn.
We have a lot of complaining from the whitehouse but ZERO proposal. He did submit a budget that did not get a single vote in the senate. Might it be time for Obama to take the risk of actually leading instead of just complaining.
BTW, next time you feel like attacking your commenters as racist, you might check out Andre Carson, member of the Congressional black Caucus who says that the Tea Party wants to see African Americans hanging from trees. Might we hear something about unhelpful, race baiting rhetoric? Might we hear you condemn inappropriate, wildly unfactualy rhetoric? Might we hear about the whacked out leftie crazies again? Might we hear about over the top, divisive partisan language?

Zap Rowsdower

August 31st, 2011
10:41 am

“A new congress will work the President.”

How does congress work the president?

USinUK

August 31st, 2011
10:41 am

dB – I put on my WWWGD this morning

(what would wayne gretzgy do)

stands for decibels

August 31st, 2011
10:42 am

Bookman apparently can’t stand

another mind reader. Boy, we sure are lucky to have them aren’t we?

getalife

August 31st, 2011
10:42 am

zap,

Not like your wealth care party.

Next.

USinUK

August 31st, 2011
10:42 am

“When you can’t win the policy debate resort to hyperbole and empty rhetoric.”

so says mr. “these people have no skin in the game”

:roll:

irony is well and truly dead.

Good Little Liberal

August 31st, 2011
10:42 am

Aquagirl

It’s several physical products. I’m just a retailer. I pay my taxes and do everything legally. it’s not anything like porn. It’s just a nice little business that helps me pay the bills. Why would you have a problem with that.

Maybe you should give it a shot. You don’t need to make trips to the Hamptons to make the connections to start a little business on the internet. I might take away some of that hate that you always project.

Thomas

August 31st, 2011
10:43 am

Are you really asserting this occurred because the low to middle class lobbied Congress to do it or got ballot initiatives to do it? Not because it was the result of credits and rate reductions put thru by the Bush Administration and their Republican (and Democratic) supporters in Congress back when they actually tried to practices the historical principles of conservatism?

Done for political reasons. Folks tend to like and vote for other folks who don’t make them pay. Folks who do things illegally tend to like and vote for other folks who say what they did wasn’t illegal. Rich folks tend to like and vote for those folks who say- now, now, you don’t have to pay that much.
Shall we continue or shall we all grow up and learn that both sides are ridiculous.

Doggone/GA

August 31st, 2011
10:43 am

“let’s return to the days when only the landed gentry could vote!!”

And let THEM use “the ballot box to vote themselves goodies” paid for those who can’t vote

Zap Rowsdower

August 31st, 2011
10:43 am

“Not like your wealth care party.”

And again, getalife makes absolutely zero sense.

Thulsa Doom

August 31st, 2011
10:43 am

USinUK,

I still see you are having reading comprehension problems. I’m not talking about taking away someone’s vote. Just saying they should at least have skin in the game as in paying some taxes, even if its just a little bit. For some reason this simple concept continually evades you. No surprise there.

Left wing management

August 31st, 2011
10:44 am

GLL: “I couldn’t agree more. But the part that you left out is that capitalism allows anyone with the brains and the motivation to become rich. It’s sort of economical Darwinism / I’m not wealthy so I’m not at the top of the food chain, but I sure don’t hate the people that have made it.”

I’m opposed to Darwinism as overarching moral principle of social organization.

By the way, just an offhand thought, I’m struck by the fact that the rise of social Darwinism as a general outlook and life philosophy in this country in this time seems to be curiously homologous both to the resurgence of religious fundamentalism, and religiosity in general, in this country and to the popularity of the philosophy of Ayn Rand. It’s very curious. It would be interesting if some sociologist could do a study of social attitudes and determine if there is a correlation between a culture’s rate of religiosity – e.g. in the American South – and their tendency to subscribe to Social Darwinist beliefs such as Randian philosophy and free market idealism in economics. I have a hunch there’s a correlation there that’s not entirely accidental. Which is extremely strange when you think about it.

Bosch

August 31st, 2011
10:44 am

“When you can’t win the policy debate resort to hyperbole and empty rhetoric.”

Or better yet, bring up the musings of a random philospher that’s been dead 150 years?

Zap Rowsdower

August 31st, 2011
10:44 am

“(what would wayne gretzgy do)”

Well for one, he can spell his own name correctly.

Brosephus

August 31st, 2011
10:44 am

With nearly half of us not paying federal income taxes, with one in 6 Americans on food stamps and with a good % of Americans drawing some type of benefit from the govt is there any doubt as to what is happening?

The only part of that group that’s even capable of mounting any lobbying attempt to maintain the status quo are those with high incomes that are able to zero out their tax liability. Just from personal observation, I don’t think the “food stamp” crowd has a central lobby that’s capable of electing officials that are at their service in the same manner as others with well-funded and well-developed lobbies.

stevie ray

The difference betwee Blacks and other minorities, First Americans excluded, is that there was no immigrant community to support and nurture the group upon their first arrival on these shores. Every immigrant group that has come to America has pretty much followed the same pattern.

First, there’s the self-investment in the community. Helping each other to gain a foothold in this country is the first thing you have to do to survive. Then, the first generation native to this country starts on the education and assimilation process. Once those two things are done, then the community as a whole is more capable of competing in this society.

Because of the nature of the immigration process, both the Blacks and First Americans lack the ability to follow that pattern. If I knew what the answer was, I’d be the first one teaching it to as many as I could.

Bosch

August 31st, 2011
10:45 am

“And let THEM use “the ballot box to vote themselves goodies” paid for those who can’t vote”

Which is apparently a point that is whizzing past Doom as we type.

USinUK

August 31st, 2011
10:46 am

Doggone – 10:43 – haven’t you heard???

they’re the PROVIDERS!!! only through them do we have anything!!!

or, to abuse the name of a comedy tour from the 1990s, “without them, we’re nothing”

Left wing management

August 31st, 2011
10:46 am

Willie: “BTW, next time you feel like attacking your commenters as racist, you might check out Andre Carson, member of the Congressional black Caucus who says that the Tea Party wants to see African Americans hanging from trees. Might we hear something about unhelpful, race baiting rhetoric”

Sounds like the charge got under your skin a bit though, no?

Zap Rowsdower

August 31st, 2011
10:46 am

“The difference betwee Blacks and other minorities”

The difference being other minorities actually work for a living.

Mighty Righty

August 31st, 2011
10:46 am

Everyone except those who are self employed, went through the hiring process at their job. For some, it was an interview wth the boss, for others an interview with HR, and still others talked to a department head. The employer, decided you had the skill and experience they desired and offered you a job starting at a certain amount of pay based on market value with or without benefits. You weighed the offer and made a decision to take the job or to reject it. CEO’s do exactly the same thing except they are interviewed by the Board of Directors and based on job their skills, experience and market forces make an offer plus an opportunity to earn a bonus. If that CEO makes several million in bonus because the company under his direction had good earnings and the value of the company shares increased by 50% or 100% then the board, the sharholders and the CEO got what they paid for. If the best you can earn is $50.per hour and the CEO of you company is earning 5 million a year, it isn’t his fault. It is your fault. He has education, skill, experience and drie that you don’t have. He get’s paid what he is worth and you get paid what you are worth. Just like president Obama. Obama went to three different colleges has two degrees, was elected to the Illinois legislature, then the U.S Senate, then President. He makes a lot of money. That doesn’t mean he should share it with you. It doesn’t make him evil no matter what the multiple of his salary is when compared with welefare recipients, now does it?

getalife

August 31st, 2011
10:46 am

zap,

Look at your wealth care party’s actions since they got crushed by the President.

They refused to with him except to bail out the banks or more wealth care welfare.

Fact.

Debate that zap.

Bosch

August 31st, 2011
10:46 am

Yeah Brosephus,

That food stamp lobby is something else huh?

Paul

August 31st, 2011
10:46 am

Thomas!! HI!!!!!! Don’t Go!!!

Got that information on hospitals that treat people for free for any condition, don’t ever bill them for it and make it unnecessary for anyone to buy health insurance because free care is available if you just know where to look?

It’s the last time I’ll ask. I promise. ;-)

USinUK

August 31st, 2011
10:47 am

Zap – I know! I know! Gretzky … Gretski … Gregsky … Greysky …

getalife

August 31st, 2011
10:47 am

Zap Rowsdower

August 31st, 2011
10:47 am

“Sounds like the charge got under your skin a bit though, no?”

Seems like all rat voters do is play the race card when they know full well Obozo is gonna lose. It’s been the rat voter mantra for decades. Just ask Cynthia Tucker.

Thulsa Doom

August 31st, 2011
10:47 am

Bosch,

By themselves the welfare crowd is not a significant voting bloc. But add up all the special interest and single issue voters that the Dem party panders to- you know, people who want a special privilege or right or economic benefit conferred upon them, and you have quite a significant voting bloc. Certainly enough to win elections and put sorely unqualified guys with zero executive experience in the oval office as we have seen.

Paul

August 31st, 2011
10:48 am

Doggone/GA

““let’s return to the days when only the landed gentry could vote!!””

Was that from a conservative Republican who never read the Constitution?

Zap Rowsdower

August 31st, 2011
10:48 am

“Look at your wealth care party’s actions since they got crushed by the President.”

Guess you slept through the democRAT meltdown of 2010.

Brosephus

August 31st, 2011
10:48 am

Funny, I was just pondering that somewhat oxidized, powder-burnt “WWSCD” bracelet on my wrist before spying this post. (Alas, I have lost my “WWHDD” bracelet; I miss it somethin’ fierce.)

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Word of advice, I’d melt any WWABMD bracelets owned. Just for safety and liability issues. ;)

Good Little Liberal

August 31st, 2011
10:48 am

Left wing management

People who strive and are smart enough to make a living is nothing new. The fact that you sem to point that those people are religous should tell you something.

the really interesting question is : Are you touting the inverse? Are people who are not religous just too dumb to make an honest living?

Zap Rowsdower

August 31st, 2011
10:48 am

“Zap – I know! I know! Gretzky … Gretski … Gregsky … Greysky …”

Wayne doesn’t like it when you misspell his name.

USinUK

August 31st, 2011
10:49 am

“If that CEO makes several million in bonus because the company under his direction had good earnings and the value of the company shares increased by 50% or 100% then the board, the sharholders and the CEO got what they paid for. If the best you can earn is $50.per hour and the CEO of you company is earning 5 million a year, it isn’t his fault.”

IT IS his fault when he heads up the BOARD and the BOARD determines his salary!

IT IS his fault when he sacrifices %%% of his workforce to hit his numbers and get his bonus

IT IS his fault when he makes the company UNSUCCESSFUL due to bad decisions, then gets a multi-BILLION $$$ payoff

Brosephus

August 31st, 2011
10:49 am

Bosch

WIC and EBT cards flying everywhere!!!

:lol:

Bosch

August 31st, 2011
10:50 am

Doom,

Nice dodge.

“But add up all the special interest and single issue voters that the Dem party panders to- you know, people who want a special privilege or right or economic benefit conferred upon them, and you have quite a significant voting bloc.”

ARE YOU HONESTLY GOING TO SAY THAT THE GOP/CONSERVATIVES DON’T DO THIS TOO???????? THEY DON’T HAVE THEIR OWN? AND I’LL WRITE THIS IN CAPS SO YOU CAN’T DODGE THAT QUESTION ANYMORE…….

Zap Rowsdower

August 31st, 2011
10:50 am

“IT IS his fault when he makes the company UNSUCCESSFUL due to bad decisions, then gets a multi-BILLION $$$ payoff”

Hard to argue with that but the problem with that statement is CEO’s not making money off of taxpayer dollars. If they were, I’d agree with you 100%.

Aquagirl

August 31st, 2011
10:50 am

It’s several physical products. I’m just a retailer. I pay my taxes and do everything legally.

Where did I say you did anything illegal? I simply pointed out you are taking advantage of a government subsidy to make money.

Why would you have a problem with that.

I don’t. Do you have a problem acknowledging your income depends on other people subsidizing your delivery system?

getalife

August 31st, 2011
10:50 am

“By themselves the welfare crowd is not a significant voting bloc.”

wealthers are a significant voting bloc for the wealth care party.

They will not stop fighting for the wealthy until the wealthy have all the money.

Then, the more brainwashed by fox will still fight for wealth care.

Sad but true.

USinUK

August 31st, 2011
10:51 am

“But add up all the special interest and single issue voters that the GOP panders to- you know, people who want a special privilege or right or economic benefit conferred upon them, and you have quite a significant voting bloc. Certainly enough to win elections and put sorely unqualified guys with zero executive experience in the oval office as we have seen.”

there.

fixed yonder typo

Bosch

August 31st, 2011
10:51 am

And Doom,

Are you saying that simply being a citizen in this country does not equate to having “skin in the game?”

Whatever the hell THAT means…

Zap Rowsdower

August 31st, 2011
10:51 am

“ARE YOU HONESTLY GOING TO SAY THAT THE GOP/CONSERVATIVES DON’T DO THIS TOO?”

Guess Bosch ain’t never heard of GE and Obama.

stevie ray

August 31st, 2011
10:52 am

Butch, of course I don’t have an all encompassing answer but some thoughts pop to mind including: (1) requiring banks to commence loaning money to individuals and businesses in relationship to the taxpayer funds received; (2) place moratorium on all new regulatory laws enacted in past decade or so for a stated period of time while working hard to actually enforce prior; (3) outside audit of federal inflows and outflows…the fact that the first entity in the universe to have to account for “trillions” of dollars is our government who I think we all agree is not a model of fiscal or adminstrative efficiency. I’m scared that the data we are all using is significantly flawed, particularly the expenditures and mostly, any 10 year projections by the CBO. (4) get the heck out of Iraq, South Korea, Libya, Germany, Afghanistan (and any other “stan”) and bring the troops home or otherwise prove to taxpayers that we are actually individually benefitting from the trillions invested. We need to take a break and allow others to police the world while we clean up our own back yard: (5) Stop putting so many people in prison…we spend 2.5 times annually incarcerating low risk inmates than we do on public education per child; (6) invest in technical schools and figure out a means to tie some entitlements for otherwise employable recipients to seek such skills; (7) outsource congress to india to improve cost and efficacy; (8) term limits for all elected officials to remove incentive to bow to lobbyists and ensure loyalty to those who elected them….

Just my opinion…I could be wrong.

Left wing management

August 31st, 2011
10:52 am

Zap Rowsdower, 10:47, looks like it gets under your skin, too.

out of the blue

August 31st, 2011
10:52 am

Zap Rowsdower

August 31st, 2011
10:41 am

“How does congress work the president?”

You cannot possibly be that simple minded to ask that nonsense!

If need be, I’ll help you out. But, for now ZAP you’re on your own…….

Zap Rowsdower

August 31st, 2011
10:52 am

“They will not stop fighting for the wealthy until the wealthy have all the money.”

Yep, that’s what happens when you actually work hard in life. Guess getalife wants everything for free.

USinUK

August 31st, 2011
10:53 am

“Hard to argue with that but the problem with that statement is CEO’s not making money off of taxpayer dollars. If they were, I’d agree with you 100%.”

okay, I’ll bite.

considering the 401Ks (and other retirement / investment plans) that are invested in these companies, how can you NOT agree???

Bosch

August 31st, 2011
10:53 am

Zap,

Yes, I have, but fail to see what that random posting has to do with the topic, or the price of tea in China.

And while your at it, would you mind explaining to us the poutrage the right seems to have with GE and Imelt?

kayaker 71

August 31st, 2011
10:53 am

USinUK,

No mention of Franklin Raines, who cooked the books at Fannie Mae and walked with 190M. Was he an evil CEO? This idiot should be in jail but very little mention of his theft of government money. Ever wonder why?

Paul

August 31st, 2011
10:54 am

left wing management 10:44

Religious fundamentalists:

Darwin as applied to living things = bad, evil, satan inspired.

Darwin as applied to society and making a living = eternal truth, good, following God’s plan.

That’s a most astute observation. Mind-boggling, really. Congratulations!

Common Sense

August 31st, 2011
10:54 am

“You honestly don’t see how their lobbying and political contributions to buy tax law changes that shift more of the tax burden to the less affluent in a time of economic hardship is not an issue?”

The less affluent are not paying any federal income taxes.

The answer to the lobbying issue is simple. Eliminate corporate income taxes and let the recipients of that income pay all the taxes. But wealth envy prohibits the idea that we do not stick our hands into the pockets of corporations, and not because it is the right thing to do. It’s because we can.

getalife

August 31st, 2011
10:54 am

zap,

When your beloved have all the money, your kids have no chance of making a livable wage.

We are close to that point now.

Then the riots break out.

Good Little Liberal

August 31st, 2011
10:54 am

USinUK

I had employees when I lived in Atlanta. I had to let them go when I moved. To be honest, with the economy making a downturn, keeping them would have put me in the poorhouse. I hated it. I loved those people and I was able to place three of the four, but I made that move out of self preservation. Now I am doing fine and so are they. If you took the risk to start the company, it is your right to do what you need to do. That’s the way it works.

Thulsa Doom

August 31st, 2011
10:55 am

Bosch,

It would appear that that that philosopher who has been dead 150 years saw something 200 years earlier that you can’t see with your very own eyes today- that we are bankrupt and that a lot of it has to do with so many people drawing from the public trough in one way or another and with nearly half of us not paying federal taxes other than fica. Facts are facts Bosch and what he stated is coming true. All you got to do is open your eyes and look at the facts. Look at the debt, the mega trillions in future unfunded obligations we owe to SS and Medicare, it aint hard to see. Just open your eyes.

Zap Rowsdower

August 31st, 2011
10:56 am

“You cannot possibly be that simple minded to ask that nonsense!”

Ah yes, the rat voter one liners without an answer.

“If need be, I’ll help you out. But, for now ZAP you’re on your own…….”

That’s ok, cupcake, you obviously didn’t read the statement.

Brosephus

August 31st, 2011
10:56 am

When all else fails, deflect and divert. It’s the new age Scorched Earth policy for political debate. Anytime I see it in action full tilt, two thoughts come to mind…

Thought #1…

Thought #2…

Bosch

August 31st, 2011
10:57 am

Doom,

My eyes are open fine, but what you don’t seem to grasp is that on the opposite end of that “it’s all the poor people slopping off the guvmint trough” are the other end of the economic scale that is doing the same thing — and they are doing more damage to our economy because the cost is greater — they eat more of the slop.

Zap Rowsdower

August 31st, 2011
10:57 am

“considering the 401Ks (and other retirement / investment plans) that are invested in these companies, how can you NOT agree???”

Um, because it’s private dollars, UK.

Common Sense

August 31st, 2011
10:57 am

“IT IS his fault when he heads up the BOARD and the BOARD determines his salary!

IT IS his fault when he sacrifices %%% of his workforce to hit his numbers and get his bonus

IT IS his fault when he makes the company UNSUCCESSFUL due to bad decisions, then gets a multi-BILLION $$$ payoff”

There is only one part of the above that would be your business. The bailout. So focus your efforts on eliminating ALL bailouts in the future.

Of course your compassion will kick in and say “what about the workers”?

So you will reluctantly support the bailouts….

Zap Rowsdower

August 31st, 2011
10:58 am

“And while your at it, would you mind explaining to us the poutrage the right seems to have with GE and Imelt?”

This might have something to do with it, cupcake.

General Electric Paid No Federal Taxes in 2010

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/general-electric-paid-federal-taxes-2010/story?id=13224558

Bosch

August 31st, 2011
10:58 am

“are the other end of the economic scale that is doing the same thing — and they are doing more damage to our economy because the cost is greater — they eat more of the slop.”

And for some reason Doom, it appears after having this pointed out to you numerous times today, you don’t give a damn about this — it’s just much easier to blame it on the poor — those all mighty poor folks. :roll:

stands for decibels

August 31st, 2011
10:59 am

“The difference betwee Blacks and other minorities”

The difference being other minorities actually work for a living.

Really, Zap?

You want another hack at that, perhaps?

Zap Rowsdower

August 31st, 2011
11:00 am

“Really, Zap?”

Da

“You want another hack at that, perhaps?”

Nyet

Good Little Liberal

August 31st, 2011
11:00 am

Aquagirl

I don’t ship it. The company that makes it ships it.

I believe that they use Fed Ex, not the US Postal Sytem.

You are trying really hard to cut down another persons small success. Again, maybe succeeding on your own would hold down that bitterness a little. It’s a great feeling looking at that bank account and seeing that it has grown with my really doing anything.

Thulsa Doom

August 31st, 2011
11:00 am

Bosch,

I never denied that Republicans have their own voting bloc- they are mostly called taxpayers. When I say have “skin in the game” I’m referring to the fact that everyone should have to pay taxes. When 47% of us don’t then its a recipe for disaster. Somehow or another both you and USinUK seem to have great difficulty with such an elementary concept.

Bosch

August 31st, 2011
11:00 am

“General Electric Paid No Federal Taxes in 2010″

So Zap, why not show the same poutrage for all the other corporations that didn’t?

the red herring

August 31st, 2011
11:00 am

JB–we have finally hit upon a subject that i can agree with you on—it’s a first!! The CEOs, boards, etc of publicly held corporations are vastly overpaid not just in salary but in perks, bonuses, etc. The shareholders of these companies get screwed. Some examples come to mind such as enron, cisco, and many of the financial companies. It is a buddy-buddy system where these people vote themselves tremendous salaries and all the goodies they can think up. The shareholders are the ones that lose in this. Oddly it is similar to the school and college adminstrations where they have obtained salaries far exceeding the governors of the states they work in. In this case it is the taxpayers that equate to shareholders and they are getting getting the shaft as well. One merely has to read past articles in the AJC concerning superintendents and their assistant’s salaries to know why education is a black hole for taxpayer money–and why some of it should be returned to the taxpayer and some should be diverted from the fat cats and spent on the classroom teachers.
In neither case (publicly held companies nor education) is the status quo acceptable.

Common Sense

August 31st, 2011
11:01 am

“They will not stop fighting for the wealthy until the wealthy have all the money.”

More false logic to believe that the majority in this nation are working to make the minority wealthier.

To even believe that 45% of the population is working to make the 1% wealthier is humorous. But believe it if you must.

Zap Rowsdower

August 31st, 2011
11:01 am

“it’s just much easier to blame it on the poor”

Maybe Bosch can move all the poor people into his house.

jt

August 31st, 2011
11:01 am

Sheriff of Nottingham: Wait a minute. Robin Hood steals money from my pocket, forcing me to hurt the public, and they love him for it?
[Scribe nods]
Sheriff of Nottingham: That’s it then. Cancel the kitchen scraps for lepers and orphans, no more merciful beheadings, and call off Christmas.

Common Sense

August 31st, 2011
11:02 am

“those all mighty poor folks”

The United States has the richest poor folks in the world.

Zap Rowsdower

August 31st, 2011
11:02 am

“So Zap, why not show the same poutrage for all the other corporations that didn’t?”

Because those “other companies” CEOs don’t sit at the head of Obama’s economic advisory board.

Try again, cupcake. Maybe one day you’ll discover something.

USinUK

August 31st, 2011
11:02 am

kayaker – ALL CEOs should be put in jail if they cook the books. do you honestly think that we think they shouldn’t?

Zap – the point being, it’s just as much YOUR money as tax dollars

GLL – have had my own company and had to close it to move, as well – I totally understand what you’re saying. HOWEVER, that’s not what I’m talking about. I’m talking about the companies that ARE showing profits, but that cut 10% of the workforce, anyway, so that the CEO can exceed targets and get his bonus.

short-term thinking, GLL – it’s what got us into this mess in the first place.

out of the blue

August 31st, 2011
11:03 am

Bosch

August 31st, 2011
10:53 am

“And while your at it, would you mind explaining to us the poutrage the right seems to have with GE and Imelt?”

I believe I may have an answer for you Immelt a REPUBLICAN was selected by President Obama as
Chairperson of the Council on Jobs and Competitiveness.

And, somehow, Zap’s tiny brain digested this as a conspiracy….other than that, don’t have a clue!

Thulsa Doom

August 31st, 2011
11:03 am

Bosch,

Are we talking about the same GE headed by Obama pal Geoffrey Immelt? You know, the one that contributes heavily to Obama and who headed his council on jobs and who has outsourced about 30,000 jobs overseas in the past decade. Next you’re going to rail about Wall St. and forget that Obama’s top campaign contributor was Goldman Sachs. You guys are just hilarious.

Zap Rowsdower

August 31st, 2011
11:03 am

“The United States has the richest poor folks in the world.”

Yep, and most of them have smart phones, flat screens and drive nice cars. Just the other day I saw a homeless woman wearing a t-shirt that had a big fat Gucci logo on it.

Bosch

August 31st, 2011
11:03 am

Doom,

Do you actually have an argument that isn’t based upon falsehoods?

“they are mostly called taxpayers.”

Are you honestly going to base your entire argument on the fact that of those 47% that don’t pay taxes…that there ain’t a Republican amongst them?

“When 47% of us don’t then its a recipe for disaster. Somehow or another both you and USinUK seem to have great difficulty with such an elementary concept”

No, Doom, I do understand that is troubling, but I’m smart enough to understand WHY IT IS that those 47% do not pay taxes — it’s because they don’t make enough money to do it.

It’s about the wages stupid! (and I’m not calling you stupid, I was using that old James Carville quip to get my point across.)

Brosephus

August 31st, 2011
11:03 am

dB

Wasted bandwidth with your 10:59 post.

Joe Mama

August 31st, 2011
11:03 am

Zap — “General Electric Paid No Federal Taxes in 2010″

Clearly GE has ‘no skin in the game.’

stands for decibels

August 31st, 2011
11:04 am

“Really, Zap?”

Da

“You want another hack at that, perhaps?”

Nyet

So you stand by your statement that black folks don’t work for a living. Got it. Thanks for the clarification.

Zap Rowsdower

August 31st, 2011
11:04 am

“Zap’s tiny brain digested this as a conspiracy”

tick…tick…tick…

Whenever rat voters can’t argue/debate, they throw out childish insults.

Grow up.

USinUK

August 31st, 2011
11:04 am

“Just the other day I saw a homeless woman wearing a t-shirt that had a big fat Gucci logo on it.”

ohsweetjeebus.

the stoopid.

if we could bottle it, we could tell OPEC to kiss our patooties.

Thanks to the Lottery Players in Georgia

August 31st, 2011
11:04 am

Yay! The Zell Miller portion of the HOPE got credited to my youngin’s account. That should bring a smile.

Zap Rowsdower

August 31st, 2011
11:05 am

“So you stand by your statement that black folks don’t work for a living.”

You have no clue what DA and NYET mean do you?

Common Sense

August 31st, 2011
11:05 am

“The shareholders are the ones that lose in this.”

The shareholders are shareholders because they believe it is to their advantage to be invested in these companies where the CEOs earn these salaries.

If they didn’t, they would not be shareholders. No one is forced to own shares of these companies.

Your logic is flawed.

Zap Rowsdower

August 31st, 2011
11:06 am

“the stoopid.”

And yet again, another childish insult thrown out by someone on the left.

Bosch

August 31st, 2011
11:06 am

f”Are we talking about the same GE headed by Obama pal Geoffrey Immelt?”

Yes, Doom, that’s the one, so again, how’s he so different than the others?

Is it just his Obama connection?

“Next you’re going to rail about Wall St. and forget that Obama’s top campaign contributor was Goldman Sachs.”

Um, you might wanna rail in those mind reading skills…your aren’t up to par.

And Doom, are you really going to play such a one-sided game? It seems to be all you have.

1811/0311

August 31st, 2011
11:06 am

stands for decibels :

Sorry pal. You ain’t entiltled to nothing ……….. especially from me !

Thanks to the Lottery Players in Georgia

August 31st, 2011
11:06 am

Whenever rat voters can’t argue/debate, they throw out childish insults.

Oh come on now. That is funny isn’t it. In a weird sort of way.

1811/0311

August 31st, 2011
11:07 am

O.K. Libs.

Heads up ……………. standby for breaking news ……….. perhaps today.

Hillary is going to try to unseat El Jeffe !

This is going to be fun to watch !

kayaker 71

August 31st, 2011
11:07 am

News Flash….. The DOJ has just announced that it will block the merger of AT&T with T-Mobile. And you wonder why corporation move overseas?

Bosch

August 31st, 2011
11:07 am

“So you stand by your statement that black folks don’t work for a living. Got it. Thanks for the clarification.”

Dammit Brosephus! Have you and Midori been lying to us all this time about you having like jobs and stuff?

Zap Rowsdower

August 31st, 2011
11:07 am

“And Doom, are you really going to play such a one-sided game?”

Says the guy who sees evil in corporations yet ignores GE.

USinUK

August 31st, 2011
11:07 am

““When 47% of us don’t then its a recipe for disaster. Somehow or another both you and USinUK seem to have great difficulty with such an elementary concept””

you seem to equate 47% of people not paying income taxes with 47% of people not paying ANY taxes (which is false) … and, even worse, 47% of people not having a job or making any kind of income, which is untrue. They’re called the WORKING POOR for a reason – they are working, they are contributing to society, not taking.

out of the blue

August 31st, 2011
11:07 am

ZAP…..Get a clue Zap… Immelt does not serve on the economic advisory board. He serves as the
Chairperson of the Council on Jobs and Competitiveness!

Keep up with actual facts Zap!

Zap Rowsdower

August 31st, 2011
11:08 am

“Have you and Midori been lying to us all this time about you having like jobs and stuff?”

Kind of funny that you say that when most of the people on this blog spend all day blogging. Seems like if you all had jobs, your bosses would get very upset.

1811/0311

August 31st, 2011
11:08 am

decibles:

You can watch this if you like ……………. or not.

http://www.greatdanepro.com/Pray%20For%20America/index.htm

Thanks to the Lottery Players in Georgia

August 31st, 2011
11:08 am

1811 says you ain’t entitled to nothin from him!! But I thought he was on here just the other day sayin how he is entitled to everything from respect toward his posts to an original copy of Obama’s birth certificate.

USinUK

August 31st, 2011
11:08 am

Zap – when you say stupid things (like a homeless person in a Gucci t-shirt), expect to be called on it.

Common Sense

August 31st, 2011
11:09 am

I’m no fan of GE. But to use one year as a reference as they were rolling losses from previous years forward, which the tax code allows, and say how horrible they are for paying no federal taxes for that year is disingenuous and does nothing to support your argument.

It does show that you do not understand how the tax code truly functions.

Joe Mama

August 31st, 2011
11:09 am

Zap — “Yep, and most of them have smart phones, flat screens and drive nice cars. Just the other day I saw a homeless woman wearing a t-shirt that had a big fat Gucci logo on it.”

I know the one you mean. She pushed her grocery cart into the Gucci store at Phipps the other day and used her food stamps to buy some gloves, a scarf, a handbag and some eau de toilette.

Bosch

August 31st, 2011
11:09 am

“Says the guy who sees evil in corporations yet ignores GE.”

Zap,

Um, thanks and all, but you don’t speak for me. And if you’d like to point out where I’ve written about the evils in corporations, then please do so…otherwise STFU.

Zap Rowsdower

August 31st, 2011
11:09 am

“Immelt does not serve on the economic advisory board. ”

I love showing rat voters just how ignorant and clueless they really are.

Obama Picks G.E. Chief for Board as Focus Turns to Jobs

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/22/business/economy/22immelt.html

stands for decibels

August 31st, 2011
11:09 am

You have no clue what DA and NYET mean do you?

I know I’m wasting valuable minutes that could be spent scratching my nether regions, but yes, I do.

So yes/Da, you “really” meant what you typed, and no/nyet, you don’t want another chance to redeem yourself. Ausgezeichnet.

Brosephus

August 31st, 2011
11:09 am

The shareholders are shareholders because they believe it is to their advantage to be invested in these companies where the CEOs earn these salaries.

If they didn’t, they would not be shareholders. No one is forced to own shares of these companies.

People who have limited investment choices in 401k’s don’t always get to choose which companies they own shares in.

Zap Rowsdower

August 31st, 2011
11:10 am

“when you say stupid things (like a homeless person in a Gucci t-shirt), expect to be called on it.”

Ok, so when I see something I’m stupid. Got it.

USUK must be big in fantasyland.

stands for decibels

August 31st, 2011
11:10 am

You can watch this if you like …

Name names, you coward.

USinUK

August 31st, 2011
11:10 am

“Ausgezeichnet”

bless you.

Thanks to the Lottery Players in Georgia

August 31st, 2011
11:10 am

Says the guy who sees evil in corporations yet ignores GE.

GE is big but it is not the only corporation out there. Remember Lehman Brothers, for example.

Brosephus

August 31st, 2011
11:11 am

Dammit Brosephus! Have you and Midori been lying to us all this time about you having like jobs and stuff?

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Keep Up the Good Fight!

August 31st, 2011
11:11 am

Homeless woman wearing gucci shirt?….. Why she must have been shopping at the Whole Foods to buy the shirt right next to the flat screen TV aisle because no one would ever donate gucci shirts (or knockoffs) to a church or other charity to give to that woman.

Zap Rowsdower

August 31st, 2011
11:11 am

“then please do so…otherwise STFU.”

Make me, Bosch. Are you gonna jump through the computer screen and make me shut up? Are you gonna go cry to Jay and make him make me stfu?

Grow up, cupcake.

jt

August 31st, 2011
11:11 am

Friar Tuck: This is grain, which any fool can eat, but for which the Lord intended a more divine means of consumption. Let us give praise to our maker and glory to his bounty by learning about… BEER.

Common Sense

August 31st, 2011
11:11 am

“People who have limited investment choices in 401k’s don’t always get to choose which companies they own shares in.”

That’s a restriction put on you by those that know best: The Federal Government.

And you are not required to participate in a 401k. It’s voluntary.

1811/0311

August 31st, 2011
11:11 am

Headscarf (I mean Headline:) “Amusement park’s ban sparks fight”

Well, that wasn’t very “amusing”.

(You know, I have been on rides where I had to take my USMC or UGA ballcap off. Just the rules.

But then ……………….. I’m not special).

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/new-york/muslims-police-scuffle-rye-playland-over-amusement-park-123309825.html

getalife

August 31st, 2011
11:11 am

The wealth care party’s new idea is to stop disaster aid.

They call themselves Christians .

The wealthers call themselves Christian too.

They should pray there is no hell.

Thanks to the Lottery Players in Georgia

August 31st, 2011
11:12 am

People who have limited investment choices in 401k’s don’t always get to choose which companies they own shares in.

You aren’t a former Enron employee are ya.

USinUK

August 31st, 2011
11:12 am

Zap – have you never heard of Good Will or other charitable donations that provide clothing for the poor or homeless???

(not to mention, have you never heard of faux “designer”)

like I said, you say stoopid things, expect to be called on it.

Zap Rowsdower

August 31st, 2011
11:12 am

USinUK must not have any friends in the UK if he spends all his time on an AJC blog.

Bosch

August 31st, 2011
11:12 am

Zap,

Are you ever going to back up any stupid claims you make? Otherwise STFU.

stands for decibels

August 31st, 2011
11:13 am

Which denominations are “unholy”, 1811?

1811/0311

August 31st, 2011
11:13 am

decibles:

Please do you own research and as a reminder, Jay has asked all of us (under penalty of banning) not to call other posters names ………… you know like “coward” ……….. kindergarten stuff.

Just sayin’.

USinUK

August 31st, 2011
11:13 am

“Make me, Bosch. ”

:lol:

… speaking of childish …

Zap Rowsdower

August 31st, 2011
11:13 am

“like I said, you say stoopid things, expect to be called on it.”

UK must be a lonely little person.

out of the blue

August 31st, 2011
11:13 am

Zap Rowsdower

August 31st, 2011
11:04 am
“Zap’s tiny brain digested this as a conspiracy”

tick…tick…tick…

Whenever rat voters can’t argue/debate, they throw out childish insults.

Grow up.

Sorry, Zap…..Truth hurt’s don’t it?

Bosch

August 31st, 2011
11:13 am

Scout,

I’m with stands, I’d like to know of these unholy churches you mentioned.

Bosch

August 31st, 2011
11:13 am

USinUK,

What next? YOUR MAMA!!

Zap Rowsdower

August 31st, 2011
11:14 am

“… speaking of childish …”

UK is indeed a lonely little person. You should spend more time trying to find a girlfriend and less time blogging, little one.

1811/0311

August 31st, 2011
11:14 am

decibles:

…………….. maybe yours. Who knows? Only God knows and He will deal with it in His time.

Off for the afternoon …………… everyone be nice.

USinUK

August 31st, 2011
11:14 am

“USinUK must not have any friends in the UK if he spends all his time on an AJC blog.”

:lol:

you’re right … that MUST be it …

Bosch

August 31st, 2011
11:14 am

Scout,

How exactly is stands supposed to do his own research on something you claimed?

stands for decibels

August 31st, 2011
11:15 am

I’d like to know of these unholy churches you mentioned.

Bosch, not just churches. “Entire denominations.” He was quite clear about it.

jt

August 31st, 2011
11:15 am

Mortianna: …recruit the beasts that share our god.
Sheriff of Nottingham: Animals?
Mortianna: From the North.
Sheriff of Nottingham: You mean…the AFL-CIO. They drink the blood of their dead.
Mortianna: Yoke their strength.
Sheriff of Nottingham: Hired thugs… Ahh brilliant.

Keep Up the Good Fight!

August 31st, 2011
11:15 am

USinUK must not have any friends in the UK if he spends all his time on an AJC blog.

Ahh another “adult” post. Is someone going to share the milk for these trollhouse cookies?

Zap Rowsdower

August 31st, 2011
11:15 am

“Truth hurt’s don’t it?”

Nothing you say hurts me, cupcake. To me, you’re a little midget.

getalife

August 31st, 2011
11:15 am

zap wants to get banned.

Thanks to the Lottery Players in Georgia

August 31st, 2011
11:16 am

And you wonder why corporation move overseas?

Yes, I wonder. Tell us why. Is it so they can have their mergers blocked in German or French as opposed to being forced to read it in English.

Bosch

August 31st, 2011
11:16 am

Zap lectures about blogging and being lonely while he’s the guy who has no less than 9 posts on this page alone….

stands for decibels

August 31st, 2011
11:16 am

Anyhow, gotta run… might be back if Jay’s got something new, later.

Steve - B.

August 31st, 2011
11:16 am

Larry @ 10:34

Mark Cuban:
[I]“We’re so inefficient in how we use funding,” said Cuban of the American government. “When I’m just writing a check to the U.S. treasury it’s going to waste, and that’s a significant problem.”[/I]

Brosephus

August 31st, 2011
11:16 am

That’s a restriction put on you by those that know best: The Federal Government.

And you are not required to participate in a 401k. It’s voluntary.

Yeah, voluntary. :roll:

Conservatives are consistently trying to roll back any safety net for the elderly, and you wanna try to sell 401k’s as voluntary? What other choice is there to fund your retirement? Everybody doesn’t make CEO money and have access to offshore accounts.

Get real dude… You and others do a damn good job at making conservatives look less likely to be the answer to any problems in this country. It’s a damn shame that the liberals don’t exploit that crap every chance they get.

Thulsa Doom

August 31st, 2011
11:17 am

Are you honestly going to base your entire argument on the fact that of those 47% that don’t pay taxes…that there ain’t a Republican amongst them? -Bosch

Bosch,

You keep putting words in my mouth that I never said. Of course there are some Republicans in that 47%. But I would bet that the overwhelmingly number of those folks are Dem voters. And if that weren’t true or fairly accurate as a perception that why is it so many liberals on here are all upset and in arms over the suggestion that they also pay a wee bit more in taxes?

As for my suggestion that you may bring up Wall St. that is not an example of mind reading. That was just a statement. And in it I did not put words in your mouth that you never said. I simply pre-empted any argument from you about wall st. fatcats who by the way live in a liberal city in a liberal state. And who like Goldman Sachs put a lot of money into Democratic coffers. Speaking of money isn’t Obama on track to shatter the record for money raising- the first campaign that may raise a billion dollars? And who said the Dems aren’t owned by corporate America?

Zap Rowsdower

August 31st, 2011
11:17 am

“Zap lectures about blogging and being lonely while he’s the guy who has no less than 9 posts on this page alone….”

Yep, and I’ve spent a total of 30 mins on this blog and you? Well, lets go back through all 12 pages, cupcake.

marc

August 31st, 2011
11:17 am

Conservative “personal responsiblity” in action…..Hey Tea Party’ers…the founding fathers expected leaders to put country b4 party…..now that the country needs the money..why not help us break up the party….???

Thanks to the Lottery Players in Georgia

August 31st, 2011
11:17 am

I’ll bet Bank of America ishes now that the government had stepped in an blocked them from buying up that dayglo orange guy’s company.

Bosch

August 31st, 2011
11:17 am

stands,

And apparently Scout has weasled off again. I got your back on this — I’ll keep asking him too, I’m genuinely curious as well.

getalife,

For real, huh? It’s like suicide by cop.

Zap Rowsdower

August 31st, 2011
11:18 am

“zap wants to get banned.

For what? Shall I post all the “stfu’s, stoopids etc” getalife?

Would loooooooooove for Jay to read all the mindless crap you guys have thrown out this morning.

Good Little Liberal

August 31st, 2011
11:18 am

UsinUK

You are smart enough to know that not one thing got us into this mess. It was monetary greed along with political and power greed. One thing was for certain, we were all lied to. And poor people were just damned lied to. And they still are.

Where I moved is like an Island and I moved here because I couldn’t afford to really move to an island. I’m pretty sick of all of it. I believe that we are about to see some crazy stuff and London will get it as much as we will see it in major cities here.

Make a plan and make an escape way out of that city. Spend a few bucks on a box or two of food that can be prepared with hot water. I know that you think that’s crazy, but just think about what the supermarkets looked like in Atlanta when snow was predicted.

I know that we fight a lot, but I actually respect your opinion much ore than most here. Just take care of yourself. I need to go to a meeting.

Thanks to the Lottery Players in Georgia

August 31st, 2011
11:18 am

Oops, that should be “wishes”. Someone call AT&T. They’re dropping letters now.

Zap Rowsdower

August 31st, 2011
11:18 am

“And apparently Scout has weasled off again.”

Scout probably works for a living. You, not so much.

jm

August 31st, 2011
11:18 am

Zap’s funny

Zap Rowsdower

August 31st, 2011
11:19 am

“You are smart enough ”

Might wanna rethink that.

Bosch

August 31st, 2011
11:19 am

OMG, like 50 posts in 30 minutes, is our resident name changer back again?

Thanks to the Lottery Players in Georgia

August 31st, 2011
11:20 am

Zap actually knows exactly how many minutes he’s been posting. He must have an egg timer app to let him know when he’s done.

USinUK

August 31st, 2011
11:20 am

“What next? YOUR MAMA!!”

Bosch – I’m waiting for “and you smell like one, too”

Aquagirl

August 31st, 2011
11:20 am

I don’t ship it. The company that makes it ships it. I believe that they use Fed Ex, not the US Postal Sytem.(sic)

Fed Ex doesn’t use airports? They have their own private FAA? No hub-and-spoke system based on those nasty big cities you dislike? Their trucks levitate over taxpayer subsidized roads?

Again, maybe succeeding on your own would hold down that bitterness a little.

Ah, the old fallback dodge of U R bitter!!11!!! Nope, I have augmented my own income in much the same way as you have. Llike you said, it’s pretty easy and fairly popular. Difference is, I acknowledge that it’s only possible because of—gasp! other people and the government’s setup. Gratefulness is not usually the hallmark of a bitter person. Thinking you’re the center of the universe and taking stuff without so much as a thank-you….well, draw your own conclusions as to who has tickets to the Bitter Ball today.

Yes, even Thulsa’s non-taxpaying taxpayers subsidize your income when they roll those 30 inch rims up to the gas pump and pay TAXES for the transportation system. Also, without the interstate highway system, which we pretty much inherited, Fed Ex/UPS as we know it would not exist.

So I guess you do have a problem acknowledging the taxpayer subsidy. Thanks for answering my question in your typical roundabout Galtian Overlord kinda way. Please, go back to your fantasies of leaving behind all the non-producers and retreating to your secret hideout of The People Who Subsidize The Parasites. I can tell this irritates you.

Brosephus

August 31st, 2011
11:20 am

Zap lectures about blogging and being lonely while he’s the guy who has no less than 9 posts on this page alone….

Remind you of someone who had to have their posts metered???

getalife

August 31st, 2011
11:21 am

Bosch,

Ate up with wealth care ideology.

Most of these wealthers are not capable of a intellectually honest debate so all we can do is laugh at them.

They are not cons anymore.

They are all about wealth care.

Zap Rowsdower

August 31st, 2011
11:21 am

“OMG, like 50 posts in 30 minutes, is our resident name changer back again?”

Says the guy who’s been here since page 1.

“Zap actually knows exactly how many minutes he’s been posting. He must have an egg timer app to let him know when he’s done.”

As opposed to Bosch, who’s been here since page 1.

Politi Cal

August 31st, 2011
11:21 am

Successful big business also pays a lot of salaries to a lot of people who in turn pay their taxes. Seems to me if you raise corporate taxes, they then have less to spend on salaries, so…fewer jobs. Is that what you’re lobbying for?

Zap Rowsdower

August 31st, 2011
11:22 am

“Bosch – I’m waiting for “and you smell like one, too”

Better yet, how about writing something as immature as “stoooopid.”

Left wing management

August 31st, 2011
11:22 am

Earlier post by a certain blogger:

“The difference betwee Blacks and other minorities”

The difference being other minorities actually work for a living.

I for one would call for banning the offending poster.

Common Sense

August 31st, 2011
11:22 am

Brosephus,

You need to get real. If you do not want to participate then don’t. That’s why it’s called freedom.

Take your dollars and put them in a self directed IRA.

Oh you want the safety net: All the benefits and none of the risk…..

Get real.

Zap Rowsdower

August 31st, 2011
11:22 am

Well rat voters, I have a job, unlike some of you. See ya!

Zap Rowsdower

August 31st, 2011
11:23 am

“I for one would call for banning the offending poster.”

Cool, then ban Bosch, UK and out the blue. They offend me with their immaturity.

USinUK

August 31st, 2011
11:23 am

cupcake … little one …

I’m feeling like a little Ella Fitzgerald! (he’s got a crush on us … sweetiepie!)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYjoFUMkb8E

kayaker 71

August 31st, 2011
11:23 am

Thanks to the Lottery Players in Georgia,

This is the same DOJ who just had a major head rolling for selling automatic weapons to the Mexican drug cartels. This is that same devoted public servant, Eric Holder, that banned any legal action on those well meaning Black Panthers outside of the voting booths in PA and said that he was protecting “our people”. Pretty credible, wouldn’t you think? I wouldn’t trust any decision that this racist idiot made, much less when it has to do with business. Bozo and his minions, just like the majority of posters on this blog, is anti business, anti free enterprise and against any move that would make a corporation more profitable. That’s why they clear out. Now that’s not so hard to understand is it?

yuzeyurbrane

August 31st, 2011
11:24 am

It’s not the money per se. The CEO’s are just keeping score.

Zap Rowsdower

August 31st, 2011
11:24 am

“cupcake … little one …”

Ahhhh, poor UK, did cupcake make you cry?

USinUK

August 31st, 2011
11:24 am

“Better yet, how about writing something as immature as “stoooopid.””

a homeless woman was wearing a Gucci t-shirt!! OHNOES!!!

Zap Rowsdower

August 31st, 2011
11:25 am

kayaker 71

Is it always like this on Bookman’s blog? This is quite hilarious to see 3-4 bloggers get angry and throw out silly little rants just because of some things I posted.

USinUK

August 31st, 2011
11:25 am

GLL – later taters!! (would love to know where that non-island island is!! although, I’m more of a river gal, myself)

Zap Rowsdower

August 31st, 2011
11:26 am

“a homeless woman was wearing a Gucci t-shirt!!”

UK must be offended by Gucci.

Aquagirl

August 31st, 2011
11:26 am

Remind you of someone who had to have their posts metered???

That 11:21 style is certainly familiar…oh look, it (maybe) ran away. I wonder if it soiled its armor in the process?

USinUK

August 31st, 2011
11:26 am

“get angry and throw out silly little rants just because of some things I posted”

another person who doesn’t quite understand the difference between mockery and anger.

it must be an epidemic on the right.

out of the blue

August 31st, 2011
11:26 am

ZAP writes I’m a mental midget … I guess that comes from having to correct him when he says Immelt was on the Economy committe, which in fact he is not he’s the Chairperson of the Council on Jobs and Competitiveness. Just like I stated earlier the truth hurt’s don’t it!

Zap Rowsdower

August 31st, 2011
11:26 am

“I’m more of a river gal, myself”

You’re a girl? LOLOL now that makes so much sense!

Thulsa Doom

August 31st, 2011
11:27 am

you seem to equate 47% of people not paying income taxes with 47% of people not paying ANY taxes (which is false) … and, even worse, 47% of people not having a job or making any kind of income, which is untrue. They’re called the WORKING POOR for a reason – they are working, they are contributing to society, not taking.

USinUK,

You have some serious reading comprehension issues. I purposefully noted that many of these 47% are paying FICA taxes but otherwise are they are not paying any other federal taxes. And I never said 47% of people do not have a job or are not making any kind of an income- where in the hell do you get that idea? And are you saying that 47% of America is the “working poor”? You can’t possibly be serious. Nearly half of America is “working poor”? That can’t possibly be what you are saying.

USinUK

August 31st, 2011
11:27 am

Zap – nope, just find stupidity wearing.

Bosch

August 31st, 2011
11:28 am

“I never denied that Republicans have their own voting bloc- they are mostly called taxpayers.”

No, Doom, you are putting those own words in your own mouth.

“But I would bet that the overwhelmingly number of those folks are Dem voters.”

Correct me if I’m wrong, but don’t the red states have a higher population of welfare recipients? So, if that is correct, I’d say you better save that bet.

“why is it so many liberals on here are all upset and in arms over the suggestion that they also pay a wee bit more in taxes? ”

I don’t think that’s the general consensus, at least not from me. It’s not just that simple. I we should go back to pre-Bush tax cuts tax levels. Have the progressive tax scale we did back then. I also see taxing the lowest wage earners as a way to hurt our economy even more considering we are a consumer based economy, and that takes purchasing power away from a large number of consumers.

“Speaking of money isn’t Obama on track to shatter the record for money raising- the first campaign that may raise a billion dollars?”

For one thing, that should tell you that he has a large support in this country and that it’s not just the welfare, EBT dumb dirty hippies who vote for him and support him.

And I hope so, because I hope he remains the POTUS because I feel he is finally getting this country back on track.

And yes, I perfectly accept that he and other Democrats are in the pockets of big business, I can admit that, just wondering why you can’t see it is a two sided issue and to criticize one side and not the other is well, rather hypocritical.

Thulsa Doom

August 31st, 2011
11:28 am

Zap,

You know you’re doing something right when you got em all riled up at you.

Aquagirl

August 31st, 2011
11:28 am

I take that back, the currently-named zap posted less than a minute later, and 3 more times since then.

Everyone be nice, it’s the end of the month and a lot of those folks run out of their meds.

Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)

August 31st, 2011
11:29 am

Well, I got to agree everybody’s got to have skin in the game.

For example, it won’t hurt a heart attack victim getting free care in a emergency room to get up and sweep the floor.

Same thing with people that pick up EBT cards or WIC vouchers. It won’t hurt them a bit to clean up some offices or streets or something like that before they go out and spend our tax money.

And people that don’t have any money or don’t pay taxes ought to have the decency to give up their right to vote. They shouldn’t ought to be able to vote for somebody that will increase our taxes. There’s nothing unChristian about that.

It’s about lunch time. I bought mine out of my own hard-earned money. That’s more than some of these moochers can say.

Brosephus

August 31st, 2011
11:29 am

Take your dollars and put them in a self directed IRA.

Oh you want the safety net: All the benefits and none of the risk…..

Get real.

I’m simply playing the game the way your peeps set it up. I use my TSP within the government, and I get matching funds. If I use an outside self directed IRA, I don’t get matching funds. I would be stupid as hell to turn down free money, don’t you think. That IS real.

I deal with risks far beyond what you’ll ever encounter. When your job issues you body armor as a part of your uniform, then come talk to me about risks. When your job requires you to deal with people on the terrorist watch list, come talk to me about risk. When you deal with drug cartels as a part of your daily work load, come talk to me about risk. Until then, you can’t tell me sh*t about risk.

jt

August 31st, 2011
11:30 am

King Richard The Lionheart: What is your opinion on my Crusade? Will God be pleased with my sacrifice?
Robin Longstride: No, he won’t.
King Richard The Lionheart: Why do you say that?
Robin Longstride: The massacre, sire.
King Richard The Lionheart: Speak up!
Robin Longstride: When you had us heard two and a half thousand innocent men, women, and children together; the woman at my feet, with her hands bound, she looked up at me. It wasn’t fear in her eyes, it wasn’t anger. It was only pity. She knew that when you gave the order, and our blades would descend upon their heads, in that moment: we would be godless. All of us. Godless.

getalife

August 31st, 2011
11:30 am

Look like wow is back.

The wealth care party should be disbanded.

USinUK

August 31st, 2011
11:30 am

“LOLOL now that makes so much sense!”

UNLEASH THE (not quite so) INNER FRAT BOY!!!

:roll:

AmVet - Read my lips. No new Texans!

August 31st, 2011
11:30 am

For 30 years the income of working class Americans has remained basically flat. This has been proven over and over and over again. It is not even debatable. Though their productivity has doubled.

In that same time a tiny few, at the very top, have seen their incomes SKYROCKET.

80% of American workers now make less in adjusted inflation income than they did three decades ago.

The gap between the haves and have nots in this country exceeds that of even the Great Depression.

This is the first generation of Americans to EVER answer no to the question, “Do you have it better than your parent’s generation”.

20% of Americans now own 84% of all the wealth therein. I suspect before too many years it will be 10% owning 94% of the wealth.

At what point, does the alarm go off to you plutocracy enablers?

Do you honestly think this is the proper and natural evolution of American capitalism?

Dirty Dawg

August 31st, 2011
11:31 am

Seems to me that about 20 or so years ago, somebody pointed out to CEOs, and most likely through The Conference Board or The Business Roundtable – both populated by CEOs – how much professional athletes, actors and entertainers made and they decided that if those guys can get that kind of money then by George so can we. Then they set out to create a cabal – basically a mutually-beneficial, back-scratching, ponzi scheme – that said ‘if you’ll agree to pay me gazillions then I’ll agree to pay you the same (you see they’re all on each others Boards of Directors and determine what the executives’ compensation will be…plus they pay each other hundreds of thousands just to be on those boards, basically it sounds like a RICO case but it’ll never be brought cause Washington is in on the deal…they’re called campaign contributions.

Then they figured out that the only groups keeping ‘em from keepin’ on with their money-making club were the unions. They were the only ’stakeholders’ that were paying attention to the scam and they needed to be rid of ‘em – plus that gave ‘em the added benefit of cheaper and cheaper labor costs, see?. I mean shareholders don’t pay enough attention to executive compensation and since they just ‘go along’ with the current Board’s recommendations on issues and pay then ‘they’ have nothing to worry about from them (maybe there’s an organization that will organize shareholders into an effective voting block to try and stop this mess, but my bet is that the government and the courts will just make it illegal, if they haven’t already done so.

Was this a great country or what?

AmVet - Read my lips. No new Texans!

August 31st, 2011
11:31 am

And for you Dick Cheney fans, who can never quite seems to see things coming:

The money powers prey upon the nation in times of peace and conspire against it in times of adversity. It is more despotic than a monarchy, more insolent than autocracy, and more selfish than bureaucracy. It denounces as public enemies, all who question its methods or throw light upon its crimes. Corporations have been enthroned and an era of corruption in high places will follow, and the money power of the country will endeavor to prolong its reign by working upon the prejudices of the people until all wealth is aggregated in a few hands and the Republic is destroyed. ~Abraham Lincoln’s biographer, 1875

An almost perfect prediction of what has come to pass, wouldn’t you say?

Libertarian

August 31st, 2011
11:32 am

The reason they have off shore tax shelters is because our corporate rate here is too high. This is not difficult to understand liberals. Most “conservatives” agree we need to reform the tax code. If you revised it, simplified it, and closed loopholes, you could lower everyone’s rate and still generate more revenue.

getalife

August 31st, 2011
11:32 am

“At what point, does the alarm go off to you plutocracy enablers?”

When the riots break out.

Zap Rowsdower

August 31st, 2011
11:32 am

“Zap – nope, just find stupidity wearing.”

tick…tick…tick…

Bosch

August 31st, 2011
11:33 am

“And are you saying that 47% of America is the “working poor”? You can’t possibly be serious. Nearly half of America is “working poor”?”

So, Doom, why do YOU think these people don’t pay income taxes, just cause they don’t want to? It’s because they DON’T MAKE ENOUGH TO DO SO.

You never addreseed that point I made earlier, it’s the wages stupid! (and again, I’m not calling you stupid, it’s again, the Carville thing).

Zap Rowsdower

August 31st, 2011
11:33 am

“UNLEASH THE (not quite so) INNER FRAT BOY!!!”

Do you have an actual life?

Hmmmmmmmmm

August 31st, 2011
11:33 am

Stevie ray,

Vote Ron Paul….

Adam

August 31st, 2011
11:33 am

Common Sense: Find one yet?

The less affluent are not paying any federal income taxes.

The answer to the lobbying issue is simple. Eliminate corporate income taxes and let the recipients of that income pay all the taxes.

Again, this is what REAL class warfare looks like.

You don’t get to have the “class warfare” term. It was defined before you, and will remain after you’re done with your poutrage over the poor not paying enough, but those helpless rich are being persecuted.

To even believe that 45% of the population is working to make the 1% wealthier is humorous. But believe it if you must.

The Republican base most certainly IS fighting for this, egged on by the few in the propaganada machine that espouse it.

The United States has the richest poor folks in the world.

Class warfare.

getalife

August 31st, 2011
11:33 am

I thought you had a job zap.

Did you lie about that too?

Zap Rowsdower

August 31st, 2011
11:35 am

“You know you’re doing something right when you got em all riled up at you.”

That’s because most of these people don’t have a life, Thulsa. I mean geez, going through 13 pages of back and forth rants makes me believe that these people don’t have jobs either.

I also love when they call for me to be banned all while calling me stooopid etc.

Adam

August 31st, 2011
11:35 am

Thulsa Doom: why is it so many liberals on here are all upset and in arms over the suggestion that they also pay a wee bit more in taxes?

Because that’s REAL class warfare. You guys get up in arms over the rich paying more and call it (wrongly) class warfare. Why are you surprised? Do you hate poor people? Do you think they are there by their own choice and they just all live and LOVE to live on the government dole, and vote Democrat so they can keep this cushy poor lifestyle of theirs?

Mary Elizabeth

August 31st, 2011
11:35 am

Left Wing Management @ 10:44

“It would be interesting if some sociologist could do a study of social attitudes and determine if there is a correlation between a culture’s rate of religiosity – e.g. in the American South – and their tendency to subscribe to Social Darwinist beliefs such as Randian philosophy and free market idealism in economics. I have a hunch there’s a correlation there. . .”

——————————————–

From my August 17, 2011 post entitled, “Puritanism, Sexuality, and the Work Ethic ” in MaryElizabethSings, these words I share with you as a source of information regarding your inquiry:

“Max Weber in his book, ‘The Protestant Ethic and the Spirit of Capitalism,’ contends that the Calvinist ethic influenced the development of Capitalism. It is understandable, in light of this history, why many of the Christian Right strongly support Ayn Rand’s philosophy.”

Zap Rowsdower

August 31st, 2011
11:35 am

“I thought you had a job zap.”

Meeting got canceled but thanks for thinking of me, getalife.

USinUK

August 31st, 2011
11:35 am

“I thought you had a job zap.”

my bet would be his classes start around 10 and finish at 1:30 …

Common Sense

August 31st, 2011
11:36 am

Brosephus,

Got ego?

Your career choice. Freedom of choice. Got it? Simple concept. But don’t brag about the risks you take voluntarily. It’s a bit unbecoming.

‘I don’t get matching funds”

How’s that something for nothing treating you?

Paul

August 31st, 2011
11:36 am

Bosch

“Make me, Bosch”

didn’t see the post, but I think you’ve just been invited for a romantic liaison……

Zap Rowsdower

August 31st, 2011
11:36 am

“The money powers prey upon the nation”

Something tells me Abe wasn’t thinking of GE or BP when he said that, Vet.

Try again.

Zap Rowsdower

August 31st, 2011
11:37 am

“my bet would be his classes start around 10 and finish at 1:30 …”

Ah yes, an blog bet. Something tells me Mensa is not in your future, cupcake.

Thanks to the Lottery Players in Georgia

August 31st, 2011
11:37 am

The report echoes some elements of a study released in May by Citizens for Tax Justice, a Washington-based nonprofit group backed by labor unions, which said 11 U.S. corporations reported $62 billion in domestic profits while paying a negative 3.6 percent tax rate in 2010.

Is negative 3.6 percent still too high!

Joe Mama

August 31st, 2011
11:38 am

Common Sense — “That’s a restriction put on you by those that know best: The Federal Government.”

The government doesn’t dictate which investment options ARE offered, though it does specify which ones CAN be offered.

“And you are not required to participate in a 401k. It’s voluntary.”

If you want the match that your employer offers (if any) then you must participate.

carlosgvv

August 31st, 2011
11:38 am

Granny – 7:57

It’s crystal clear that Republicans will do anything necessary to protect the financial interests of their corporate sponsors. It’s also clear they can do this completely out in the open, knowing their electorate will still elect and re-elect them. It’s hard to believe there are so many dumb as dirt Republican voters in America.

getalife

August 31st, 2011
11:38 am

zap,

You lied about the job didn’t you?

Are you in school?

Have you ever used the name wow?

Common Sense

August 31st, 2011
11:39 am

No Adam, they are fighting to keep what they have earned.

Simple concept.

Redistribution of earnings from others is something you can be against even if you are not earning enough money to have your income redistributed at the present time.

It’s called principle.

Thulsa Doom

August 31st, 2011
11:39 am

Correct me if I’m wrong, but don’t the red states have a higher population of welfare recipients? So, if that is correct, I’d say you better save that bet.- Bosch

Bosch,

It depends. Some red states do. Some don’t. And keep in mind that some red states such as GA., AL., and MS. have high minority populations which is going to skew those stats. And I doubt those populations vote Republican.

Go back to the pre Bush tax cuts? I’m in agreement with you on that. What people don’t realize is that the Bush tax cuts are what brought a lot of people into the not paying any taxes fold. I’m not for taxing the working poor and punishing the poorest among us. I’m simply stating that its ridiculous that nearly half the country pays no income taxes outside of FICA. The number should be more like the poorest 20-25% of us. Not really sure and I would have to look at the numbers. But it shouldn’t be nearly half of us. As for the big corporations I’m all for closing several of the loopholes. I just find it ironical that the most hypocritical of them like GE, Google, and a lot of those .com companies etc are the biggest patrons of the Dem party and the worst abusers of offshoring and outsourcing. And yes. I think the wealthiest among us can afford to pay a little more- the Buffets and those folks. But the overriding problem is spending- not taxation. I’ve posted many a times the fact that our FY 2011 deficit is 1.6 trillion and that if we taxed the top 1 million households at a 100% clip taking everything, that it would only reduce the deficit to 1 trillion. Most everybody needs to contribute a little bit more and the biggest problem is that we have to slash the spending- both domestic, military, etc. We’re not as far off as you think you and I.

Zap Rowsdower

August 31st, 2011
11:39 am

“my bet would be his classes start around 10 and finish at 1:30 …”

Let’s see, UK writes this yet she’s been on here since 9:30am. Yep, she has no life nor a job.

Bosch

August 31st, 2011
11:39 am

Stop it Paul, don’t encourage him. :)

Now, that I’ve established who he is, I’ll ignore him as I hope others do.

Thanks to the Lottery Players in Georgia

August 31st, 2011
11:39 am

I wonder if those corporations that paid negative 3.6 percent are on the Republican’s list of 50 percent that pay no income taxes that they toss around so freely.

Zap's racing thoughts

August 31st, 2011
11:39 am

gotta keep posting or the monsters under the bed will get me, help, mommy!!!!!!

Paul

August 31st, 2011
11:40 am

Zap

“Meeting got canceled but thanks for thinking of me, getalife.”

Not wanting to make personal inquiries, but you opened the door…..

So it’s okay to get paid to work and you know, not work?

Company have a policy on that?

kayaker 71

August 31st, 2011
11:40 am

Sure, these evil corporations should hire more people, even though demand for their products is low, they are producing less and the outlook for future profits is unsettled at best. They are taxed at close to 40% now and passing on these costs to consumers, which we have to pay as an add on to the price of what we buy. So, the bottom line….. the consumer is stuck with the bill and that “well meaning” government of ours is screwing the electorate and calling it something entirely different. The more the corporate taxes are raised, the higher the cost of goods goes….. courtesy of our federal government.

Zap Rowsdower

August 31st, 2011
11:40 am

“You lied about the job didn’t you?

Are you in school?

Have you ever used the name wow?”

1: Prove it.

2: Nope, graduated years ago but thanks for asking.

3: Lay of the acid.

Zap Rowsdower

August 31st, 2011
11:40 am

“Not wanting to make personal inquiries, but you opened the door…..”

Ah yes, another rat voter comes to the rescue of his fellow rats.

getalife

August 31st, 2011
11:41 am

zap,

Acid is for kids like you.

Zap Rowsdower

August 31st, 2011
11:41 am

“Zap’s racing thoughts”

Looks like I have another fan.

Common Sense

August 31st, 2011
11:41 am

If means it is a choice. Got it?

AmVet - Read my lips. No new Texans!

August 31st, 2011
11:41 am

Brilliant men of conscience and vision could see centuries ago what small men today, still cannot…

“I hope we shall take warning from the example and crush in its birth the aristocracy of our monied corporations which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws our country.” ~Thomas Jefferson, 1816

Brosephus

August 31st, 2011
11:42 am

Got ego?

Your career choice. Freedom of choice. Got it? Simple concept. But don’t brag about the risks you take voluntarily. It’s a bit unbecoming.

Career choice was one that I made. My point is don’t try to lecture me about risks when I risk my ass on a regular basis. You think I got an ego, you damned right I do. I’ve worked my ass off to get where I have in life from where I started. If I don’t feel good about myself, nobody else will. If I didn’t have self confidence, I would really suck at my job since I spend every day interviewing people to determine why they want to enter my country.

As far as getting something for nothing, you’re barking up the wrong tree there. Partial matching funds is not something I’d be dancing in the streets and throwing a ticker-tape parade for.

Keep Up the Good Fight!

August 31st, 2011
11:42 am

Doom: You know you’re doing something right when you got em all riled up at you

Doesn’t take much to satisfy the Doom “winning” definition. Hmmmm… by that definiton Obama and the Dems have been doing a lot right because the tea party is all riled up.

Thulsa Doom

August 31st, 2011
11:42 am

Adam,

Typical knee jerk reaction. I never said we should tax poor people. I am not in favor of that. I simply said we shouldn’t have nearly half the country not paying any federal income tax other than FICA. Half the country is not “working poor” and its ridiculous to think nearly 1 in 2 of us is not paying any federal taxes outside of FICA. You can quit having a heart attack from your knee jerkism and drama over taxing the poor and your “class warfare” nonsense.

Zap Rowsdower

August 31st, 2011
11:43 am

“our monied corporations ”

Who was Jefferson talking about Vet? Hint: He wasn’t talking about BP.

Paul

August 31st, 2011
11:43 am

Bosch

One more..

Zap

“Let’s see, UK writes this yet she’s been on here since 9:30am. Yep, she has no life nor a job.”

I’ve met her on her home turf. You are wrong on both counts. By a huge margin.

You may want to retract that Mensa wisecrack -

Zap Rowsdower

August 31st, 2011
11:43 am

“Obama and the Dems have been doing a lot right because the tea party is all riled up.”

And they have 2010 to prove it.

Bye bye, Obama.

Thulsa Doom

August 31st, 2011
11:43 am

keep up,

Aaaaah. The cyber stalker makes his appearance. Must be awful lonely for you with Dave R. not being around.

Adam

August 31st, 2011
11:43 am

Common Sense: No Adam, they are fighting to keep what they have earned.

Simple concept.

How dense can you be?

Redistribution of earnings from others is something you can be against even if you are not earning enough money to have your income redistributed at the present time.

It’s called principle.

Found a post that says anyone advocates for CEO salaries being forcibly lowered? If that one’s too hard, surely this one is easier: Find a post in this thread that suggests that people want to redistribute wealth from the rich. Hint: Taxing them isn’t redistributing wealth.

USinUK

August 31st, 2011
11:44 am

(someone needs to explain the concept of GMT – or, at least BST – to Zap)

Zap Rowsdower

August 31st, 2011
11:44 am

“I’ve met her on her home turf. You are wrong on both counts. By a huge margin.”

Oh, because a blogger named Paul told me.

getalife

August 31st, 2011
11:45 am

zap dodged the wow question so wow will be gone again soon.

Zap Rowsdower

August 31st, 2011
11:45 am

“someone needs to explain the concept of GMT”

Someone needs to explain match.com to UK.

Zap Rowsdower

August 31st, 2011
11:45 am

“zap dodged the wow question so wow will be gone again soon.”

What’s a “wow” question?

USinUK

August 31st, 2011
11:45 am

aw, Paul – thanks! :-)

(and, your 11:36 is just wrong … on so many levels)

Paul

August 31st, 2011
11:46 am

Zap

Nothing about rescuing. Just looking for backup information or consistency.

Not diversions.

Bosch – sounds like our old friend Dave. But more like Harry. The ‘cupcake’ references. We’ll know for sure if he cues the music:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSklX1Hs324

Aquagirl

August 31st, 2011
11:46 am

They are taxed at close to 40% now and passing on these costs to consumers

Uh…no, those evil corporations aren’t taxed at 40%. That’s what all those mysterious symbols and markings called “words” in Jay’s column are trying to tell you.

jm

August 31st, 2011
11:46 am

Zap, use a governor on occasion if you can. Jay keeps a tilted playing field (it is his) around here and things like what getalife says won’t fly for the rest of us….

Adam

August 31st, 2011
11:46 am

Thulsa Doom: Half the country is not “working poor”

Yes it is. Most of those people were paying taxes prior to the recession, and now have new jobs that pay less, but they go with the idea that something is better than nothing. Even if that something doesn’t pay the bills.

Bosch

August 31st, 2011
11:47 am

“And keep in mind that some red states such as GA., AL., and MS. have high minority populations which is going to skew those stats.”

Again Doom, you are pulling stats out of thin air. I think we have established here many times that there are more whites on welfare (at least in this State) than their are minorities.

In either case, you will never be able to back up your opinion on actual data. It’s just your hunch — it’s what you want it to be.

“I just find it ironical that the most hypocritical of them like GE, Google, and a lot of those .com companies etc are the biggest patrons of the Dem party and the worst abusers of offshoring and outsourcing. ”

What I find hypocritical is that you would single out a corporation as being “Democrat” when again, that is completely ridiculous to say — corporations equally across the board contribute equally to both parties. They ALL do it.

I don’t see us as having a spending problem at all — there aren’t really any new spending expenditures except in health care. We pay a good chunk of our federal monies on one industry — health care and that’s a big problem.

Single payer is, in my opinion, the only way to fix that problem. When you have one consumer, they set the costs.

Now, I know that gets into your pocketbook, but that entire industry from the top down needs to be changed. It’s out of control and it’s the real reason for so many of our problems. I’m not saying socialize or nationalize the whole health care industry either. The same amount of work has to be done, it doesn’t mean large scale lay offs to do it.

And I know a big difference in philosophies between conservatives and liberals is the idea that healthcare is a “right” vs. a “privledge.” And to me anyone who thinks that healthcare is a privledge is just simply nuts.

getalife

August 31st, 2011
11:47 am

Jm,

Are you saying I am special?

Thanks but I love the ladies.

Common Sense

August 31st, 2011
11:48 am

Then you would understand the difference between investment risks and risk as it involves personal safety then wouldn’t you.

Don’t equate the two in your arguments as proof you are right.

And frankly I am glad you are doing what you are doing,

But in the world of investments there is no way to enjoy the rewards without the risks involved. Anyone who thinks there is, well they should not be investing.

USinUK

August 31st, 2011
11:48 am

Zap – unlike you, I don’t have to resort to the nameless/faceless folks on the blog for a lovelife (although, I’m SURE you really ARE 6′3″ and built like a lumberjack, modeling in your spare time …. just like you tell the girls on the interwebs)

jm

August 31st, 2011
11:48 am

Bosch you figure out gravity yet? :)

Hmmmmmmmmm

August 31st, 2011
11:48 am

LOL, way to simplistic Mary …… But good try…

Zap Rowsdower

August 31st, 2011
11:49 am

jm

That’s how it used to work on Tucker’s blog. Say something she doesn’t agree with, you get silenced. I still think it’s funny how a few of these people sit here and blog all morning yet say that I don’t have a job. Priceless.

Anyway, I’ll keep that in mind. Guess Jay doesn’t want folks who lean right to write too much because left wingers will explode in a childish fit of rage.

jm

August 31st, 2011
11:49 am

getalife – special indeed. special ed perhaps though

Bosch

August 31st, 2011
11:49 am

““zap dodged the wow question so wow will be gone again soon.”

What’s a “wow” question?”

That’s classic “name changer” behavior. When we find out who he is and call him on it, he always writes “Well, who is that? He must have driven you guys crazy!”

Remember that time the name changer claimed he wasn’t LA, and then Jay busted him?

Good times.

Oh, I’m supposed to be ignoring….

Zap Rowsdower

August 31st, 2011
11:50 am

“I don’t have to resort to the nameless/faceless folks on the blog for a lovelife”

No, you just rely on them to come to your rescue. You also resort to calling people stooopid which leads me to believe that you’re a twelve year old.

“(although, I’m SURE you really ARE 6′3″ and built like a lumberjack, modeling in your spare time …. just like you tell the girls on the interwebs)”

Your words, not mine.

jm

August 31st, 2011
11:50 am

“Guess Jay doesn’t want folks who lean right to write too much because left wingers will explode in a childish fit of rage.”

Something like that. Over and out.

USinUK

August 31st, 2011
11:51 am

Bosch – “Remember that time the name changer claimed he wasn’t LA, and then Jay busted him?

Good times.”

:lol:

misty water-colored memories …

Zap Rowsdower

August 31st, 2011
11:51 am

Bosch, not sure if you heard or not, but one of your rat buddies asked that same question a few days ago and Jay addressed him. Like I told getalife, lay off the acid.

Adam

August 31st, 2011
11:51 am

Bosch: But corporations are people too right? That means they get to register to vote as people, and that registration has to be for a party doesn’t it? So surely we have public records to back up which corporations – I mean people – are Democrat or Republican. :D

getalife

August 31st, 2011
11:51 am

jm,

Childish like zap.

Is he your twin?

Bosch

August 31st, 2011
11:52 am

jm,

You of all people should be concerned that the name changer is back — he’s more attention craving than you are and steals your ankle biter thunder….

kayaker 71

August 31st, 2011
11:52 am

Aquagirl,

Courtesy of the Guardian, Uk, the facts speak for themselves. The US has the second highest corporate tax rate in the world at 39.2%, second only to Japan at 39.6%. Bookman didn’t do his homework.

(ir)Rational

August 31st, 2011
11:52 am

USinUK – He/she/it probably wouldn’t understand, but I’ll try. Zap, check out her name. Okay, got it? It says USinUK. Now let’s break that down. US (American) in (seems obvious) UK (United Kingdom). Okay, understanding me so far, or do I need to slow down? Now comes the hard part. 9:30 here is, 1:30 pm there. You with me still? Now try and process that, and understand that she could have worked in the morning and not have to in the evening.

Oh-well. Who is John Galt?

Zap Rowsdower

August 31st, 2011
11:53 am

Bosch

Why don’t you simply call up Jay and ask him. Go ahead, call up the AJC and ask to speak to Jay.

Otherwise, take your own advice and stfu.

Adam

August 31st, 2011
11:53 am

kayaker: The US has the second highest corporate tax rate in the world at 39.2%

And all of them pay exactly that percentage every time, right? THE HUMANITY!

Paul

August 31st, 2011
11:53 am

““I’ve met her on her home turf. You are wrong on both counts. By a huge margin.”

Oh, because a blogger named Paul told me.”

Okay, I think we’ve ruled out work level and college level. Where does that leave us?

Hint, Zap. A number of bloggers have been here for quite some time. Some have personal relationships. A pattern of number of posts seeking attention, not on policy or position, but personal attention, is sadly amusing to watch but does nothing to further the debate. Coming here and acting as if you are the arbiter of knowledge does not engender credibility.

What works on other blogs is scorned here.

Brosephus

August 31st, 2011
11:55 am

Then you would understand the difference between investment risks and risk as it involves personal safety then wouldn’t you.

I understand the risks in both very well. I know that for all the risk I’m taking on my retirement, I don’t have much say when it comes to the operations of the companies that my money is helping to fund. Do I like the current system? Nope, but I have to live and play within the system as it is. I don’t have the power to change things.

Adam

August 31st, 2011
11:55 am

Paul: A pattern of number of posts seeking attention, not on policy or position, but personal attention, is sadly amusing to watch but does nothing to further the debate.

It also leads to getting banned. Especially since most of the posts are insults directed at others.

Thulsa Doom

August 31st, 2011
11:55 am

“Most of those people were paying taxes prior to the recession, and now have new jobs that pay less, but they go with the idea that something is better than nothing”- Adam

Adam,

Source please? That’s quite a statement to say that most of those people, the majority mind you as you clearly stated, now have jobs that pay less. Is this just your opinion or something that you can verify with economic IRS tables and bureau of labor statistics data? Because I’m calling complete BS on that statement. Please provide a source that states with empirical data that “most” of those 47% lost their jobs and are now working at much lower paying jobs. Please tell me you got more than just your “opinion”.

Your blanket statement alone that 47% of all taxpayers are “working poor” is so blatantly absurd that I have to ask you what income level or number constitutes “working poor”. Does your mind honestly think nearly 1 in 2 Americans is “working poor”?

USinUK

August 31st, 2011
11:55 am

Zap – “No, you just rely on them to come to your rescue.”

:lol:

now, you really ARE stretching. you’re called out on your BS by me and others and you crank up the whinge-o-matic … calling others childish while you resort to “make me / you have no life / you have no friends .. and, my personal favorite – you’re a girl? that explains it!” … we’re just waiting for you to say we’re stinky-poopy-pants … (it would make the image complete)

and, yes, I call you stoopid for resorting to asinine comments about homeless people and the clothes they wear – as if you know that they sashayed into Phipps and bought it in a boutique with the food stamps they received fraudulently before driving off in their caddy-mobile

Zap Rowsdower

August 31st, 2011
11:56 am

“A number of bloggers have been here for quite some time. ”

Yep, like 24/7.

Paul, I don’t know you and you don’t know me. I’d love to keep it that way. I couldn’t care less if you and UK have a “special relationship” nor do I care if you’ve met her or not.

“Coming here and acting as if you are the arbiter of knowledge does not engender credibility.”

Oh no, Paul is angered that I upset a few rat voters.

“What works on other blogs is scorned here.

Yeah, by left wingers.

RB from Gwinnett

August 31st, 2011
11:56 am

“Do you hate poor people?” No

Do you think they are there by their own choice and they just all live and LOVE to live on the government dole,” Yes, most of them are poor because of the choices they have made and their work ethic.

“and vote Democrat so they can keep this cushy poor lifestyle of theirs?” Yes. And it seems the vast majority of the Democrats platform is based around keeping their “benefit” coming, so why would anybody be surprised by that?

Zap's racing thoughts

August 31st, 2011
11:56 am

uh-oh sliding back into that “repeat other poster in quotes” followed by my snappy answer over and over again format, better change that quick because it’s soooooo obvious who I am but I can’t help myself and mommy will be mad and spank me again, help, the monsters are getting closer wahhhhhhhh

Zap Rowsdower

August 31st, 2011
11:57 am

“you’re called out on your BS by me”

So you call me out on something I actually saw as BS when you live in the UK. Did your IQ drop while living in the UK?

(ir)Rational

August 31st, 2011
11:57 am

Zap, it is actually found annoying by most everyone. I don’t think anyone here would refer to me as left wing, but I’m very much annoyed by your posts.

Oh-well. Who is John Galt?

USinUK

August 31st, 2011
11:57 am

(ir) – 11:52 – :lol:

well done – and patiently, too!!

I think I saw John Galt on the Circle line this morning … he got off at the South Kensington exit.

Thulsa Doom

August 31st, 2011
11:57 am

I’m out. Got some coin to go make.

Adam, I’ll look for your empirical data proving your blanket statement about employment when I return.

Zap Rowsdower

August 31st, 2011
11:58 am

“we’re just waiting for you to say we’re stinky-poopy-pants ”

UK needs and seeks attention because she’s obviously not getting attention at home. She also doesn’t realize all the childish things she’s written over the past 14 pages.

Match.com is ready when you are, UK.

Zap Rowsdower

August 31st, 2011
11:59 am

(ir)Rational

Which posts annoy you? Do any of the “stoopid or STFU” posts annoy you? Of course not, they were written by left wingers.

Paul

August 31st, 2011
11:59 am

Adam

That, too.

I was hoping it would come as a surprise!

kayaker 71

August 31st, 2011
11:59 am

Adam,

That 39.2% is a combined tax rate. As an aside, for a personal service corporation, as I had for nearly 40yrs in a medical practice, I was taxed at a flat rate of 35%, regardless of the income I was generating. That’s why we didn’t carry over much income from year to year.

Bosch

August 31st, 2011
11:59 am

“Your blanket statement alone that 47% of all taxpayers are “working poor” is so blatantly absurd that I have to ask you what income level or number constitutes “working poor”. Does your mind honestly think nearly 1 in 2 Americans is “working poor”?”

Doom,

Can I ask you why you are skipping around addressing my thought that the reason 47% of the population pay no income tax is because they don’t make enough money to have that tax liability – i.e. the working poor?

I mean, we can skip the semantics and address the idea, right?

USinUK

August 31st, 2011
12:00 pm

Zap – “Did your IQ drop while living in the UK?”

no. which is why I’m calling you out on it.

as mentioned, people donate all kinds of clothes to Goodwill, Salvation Army and other orgs that give clothing to the homeless …

and, as I also mentioned, there are a lot of counterfeit “designer” goods on the street (or do you think that all women who carry Gucci bags and wear Gucci sunglasses actually carry REAL Gucci bags and wear REAL Gucci sunglasses)

Zap Rowsdower

August 31st, 2011
12:00 pm

“Personally, I think I’m going to open an offshore branch of Jay Bookman and have my paycheck sent there.”

Soros has been doing it for decades, Jay. So has John F. Kerry and others.

Adam

August 31st, 2011
12:00 pm

Thulsa Doom: My evidence that 47% are the working poor? Ok, here it is:

Census Data showing that there are more in poverty than there were before
Declining wages is well documented. Put that together and you have 47% being “the working poor.” You may disagree with the exact figures representing poor people, but the fact is that 47% of the country, not paying income tax, are not doing so legally, because they don’t make enough to be required to do so.

AmVet - Read my lips. No new Texans!

August 31st, 2011
12:00 pm

So, good peeps, does anyone care to predict the over/under?

I’ve had pretty good luck on this matter, historically.

However, the last time I predicted the miscreant in question would last a week and he only lasted three days.

So given that over-estimation and the sheer number of insults and to Paul’s excellent point, the overall deleterious effect on this forum, etc, I’m going with three days this time.

Time will tell and feel free to share your predictions…

Zap Rowsdower

August 31st, 2011
12:02 pm

“as mentioned, people donate all kinds of clothes to Goodwill, Salvation Army and other orgs that give clothing to the homeless …”

Yeah, no kidding. But for a homeless person to wear a GUCCI shirt and ask for money is ironic.

(ir)Rational

August 31st, 2011
12:02 pm

USinUK – Maybe next time you could catch him and get me his autograph? :) Surprised that I did that with such patience, I typically don’t tolerate stupidity.

Oh-well. Who is John Galt?

Left wing management

August 31st, 2011
12:02 pm

AmVet: Re Lincoln quote: “An almost perfect prediction of what has come to pass, wouldn’t you say?”

Reads like an epitaph for the American experiment.

Mary Elizabeth, absolutely right about the roots of the connection between capitalism and Protestantism in Max Weber. Good point. I’m not sure that anyone has draw the connection more specifically – or shown how it’s a continuation of the same – between the more recent rise of fundamentalism in the United States and the simultaneous surge in interest in the work of Ayn Rand.. At a certain level it does appear to be a form of Calvinism, paradoxically as a fusion of its religious and secularized forms.

Paul

August 31st, 2011
12:02 pm

11:56 I’m guessing Harry Callahan….

Anybody got a policy issue?

How ’bout the Republican front-runner who’s going to do for the US economy what he did for Texas?

Like balance two budgets with Obama stimdollars and when that went away had a $20 billion-plus deficit?

That plan?

Adam

August 31st, 2011
12:03 pm

RB: Do you think they are there by their own choice and they just all live and LOVE to live on the government dole,” Yes, most of them are poor because of the choices they have made and their work ethic.

“and vote Democrat so they can keep this cushy poor lifestyle of theirs?” Yes. And it seems the vast majority of the Democrats platform is based around keeping their “benefit” coming, so why would anybody be surprised by that?

Statistics, real, actual data show you to be incorrect. But live in your fantasy world if you want. People don’t make a choice to be poor and to live off government assistance because they find that lifestyle cushy. They don’t like being there, and many of them do not have choices available to get out of it.

Joe Mama

August 31st, 2011
12:03 pm

Man. This is fanTAStic. (ir)Rational tries to caution Zap, and Zap makes him out to be some sort of lefty for it. (laughing) :D

It’s like Zap just gave up and let the tumor start doing all the talking for him.

Adam

August 31st, 2011
12:04 pm

kayaker: As an aside, for a personal service corporation, as I had for nearly 40yrs in a medical practice, I was taxed at a flat rate of 35%, regardless of the income I was generating. That’s why we didn’t carry over much income from year to year.

Congrats! You are more responsible than most in that bracket.

Zap Rowsdower

August 31st, 2011
12:04 pm

Joe Mama

Forgive me, I don’t know who is left or right on this blog. It’s not like I spend 24/7 on it like most of the people here.

Mick

August 31st, 2011
12:04 pm

Speaking of taxes:

“Perry doesn’t like the Federal Reserve Board. He hates the Internal Revenue Service even more. Presumably if he had his way taxpayers would pay states rather than the federal government for all the services and transfer payments they get.

This might be a good deal for Texas. According to the most recent data from the Tax Foundation, the citizens of Texas receive only 94 cents from the federal government for every tax dollar they send to Washington.

But it would be a bad deal for most other red states. On average, citizens of states with strong Republican majorities get back more from the federal government than they pay in. Kentucky receives $1.51 from Washington for every dollar its citizens pay in federal taxes. Alabama gets back $1.66. Louisiana receives $1.78. Alaska, $1.84. Mississippi, $2.02. Arizona, $1.19. Idaho, $1.21. South Carolina, $1.35. Oklahoma, $1.36. Arkansas, $1.41. Montana, $1.47, Nebraska, $1.10. Wyoming, $1.11. Kansas, $1.12.

On the other hand, fiscal secession would be a boon to most blue states. The citizens of California — harder hit by the recession than most — receive from Washington only 78 cents for every tax dollar they send to Washington. New Yorkers get back only 79 cents on every tax dollar they send in. Massachusetts, 82 cents. Michigan, 92 cents. Oregon, 98 cents.

In other words, blue states are subsidizing red states. The federal government is like a giant sump pump — pulling dollars out of liberal enclaves like California, New York, Massachusetts, and Oregon — and sending them to conservative places like Montana, Idaho, Oklahoma, Arizona, Wyoming, Kansas, Nebraska, and the Old South.”

Paul

August 31st, 2011
12:05 pm

(ir)Rational

“I don’t think anyone here would refer to me as left wing,”

I have no doubt but that this is true. And you’re good for discussing ideas, considering other viewpoints and modifying your own.

” but I’m very much annoyed by your posts. ”

I have no doubt but that this is also true!

out of the blue

August 31st, 2011
12:06 pm

“(someone needs to explain the concept of GMT – or, at least BST – to Zap)

USinUK……Don’t ya think that’s asking a lot?

(ir)Rational

August 31st, 2011
12:07 pm

Joe – I knew it was going to happen, he/she/it doesn’t read what others write. Well, maybe it reads, but it doesn’t comprehend. Oh-well. As Forest Gump said “Sh*t happens.”

Oh-well. Who is John Galt?

Adam

August 31st, 2011
12:07 pm

Keep Up the Good Fight!

August 31st, 2011
12:07 pm

Zap: But for a homeless person to wear a GUCCI shirt and ask for money is ironic

I agree. The homeless should consider their wardrobe alternatives when selecting their bridge to sleep under, their grates to sleep on and the people they wish to ask for money. Why look at the fine clothing choices made by those on Wall Street when they come looking for a handout from Washington and the fine hotels they sleep in. Why the homeless would solve half their problems by wardrobe consideration and the use of private jets for transportation.

Bosch

August 31st, 2011
12:08 pm

Paul,

If Doom, Talking Head, and (ir)Rational could get past the “Well you libs think and do this” stuff…..they’d be alright! :)

ken

August 31st, 2011
12:08 pm

CEO’s are mandated to balance a budget and make a profit. They are ACCOUNTABLE !!!!!!!!!!

jm

August 31st, 2011
12:08 pm

“whinge-o-matic”

wonder where I get one of those

Doggone/GA

August 31st, 2011
12:08 pm

“Okay, I think we’ve ruled out work level and college level. Where does that leave us?”

Grade school

Zap Rowsdower

August 31st, 2011
12:09 pm

“Why look at the fine clothing choices made by those on Wall Street when they come looking for a handout from Washington and the fine hotels they sleep in.”

I have never been in favor for handouts to Wall Street.

Bosch

August 31st, 2011
12:09 pm

Well Doom does have that drunk bloggin habit, but hey, we all have our faults.

(ir)Rational

August 31st, 2011
12:10 pm

Paul – thanks for the complements. I try.

Oh-well. Who is John Galt?

kayaker 71

August 31st, 2011
12:10 pm

Mick, 12:04

Congress would never go for it. Can you imagine the loss of power that our Congress would have if they were paid taxes by the state? They want it from the average citizen to maintain some sort of government control over the system. Just like the unions. Voluntary contributions would only weaken them financially…. they need that steady income in deduction from a paycheck to maintain power and status.

Paul

August 31st, 2011
12:10 pm

Enter your comments here

too big to fail

August 31st, 2011
12:10 pm

Glad the FEDs decided to block AT&T’s take over of T-Mobile.

Zap Rowsdower

August 31st, 2011
12:11 pm

“I think everyone oughta have to pay taxes”

If that were to happen, Democrats wouldn’t have a voting base.

USinUK

August 31st, 2011
12:11 pm

out – 12:06 – (ir) did a FANTASTIC job on the last page …

joe – “It’s like Zap just gave up and let the tumor start doing all the talking for him.”

now, that’s just funny. (although I was thinking it was the glass of JB)

Zap – “It’s like Zap just gave up and let the tumor start doing all the talking for him.” – why? because it doesn’t fit YOUR stereotype of what a homeless person is supposed to look like? donated clothing is donated clothing.

Common Sense

August 31st, 2011
12:11 pm

“Taxing them isn’t redistributing wealth”

Then please tell us what it is.

That’s the dumbest post of the day.

If it is not wealth you are taking and redistributing, what are you redistributing?

Joe Mama

August 31st, 2011
12:11 pm

jm — “wonder where I get one of those”

UK only. You can also get a colour TV and a new set of tyres for your pickup lorry while you’re over there.

AmVet - Read my lips. No new Texans!

August 31st, 2011
12:11 pm

We can have a democratic society or we can have the concentration of great wealth in the hands of the few. We cannot have both. ~Supreme Court Justice Louis Brandeis, 1941

Bosch

August 31st, 2011
12:11 pm

No Paul, I won’t do it! I refuse!!

USinUK

August 31st, 2011
12:12 pm

jm – 12:08 – it does sound like something that should be sold at 3:00 in the morning on a “show” hosted by Suzanne Somers.

Bosch

August 31st, 2011
12:12 pm

So Zap, tell us, why DID you vote for Obama?

Zap Rowsdower

August 31st, 2011
12:14 pm

“because it doesn’t fit YOUR stereotype of what a homeless person is supposed to look like? donated clothing is donated clothing.”

Poor little cupcake. She got upset because I pointed out what a homeless person was wearing.

(ir)Rational

August 31st, 2011
12:14 pm

Bosch – I’m trying. Having said that, I do only try and present my viewpoint, and what I believe. If I’m presenting something like that, it is typically from my observations, and not necessarily directed at you. Does help when you respond and point out where I’m wrong. I don’t mind being wrong, as long as it doesn’t happen too much. Just like I don’t mind pointing out the stupidity and fallacies of the arguments of the right when I disagree with them (or as seems to be happening today, when school somewhere is out and the children get on here an annoy me).

Oh-well. Who is John Galt?

Zap Rowsdower

August 31st, 2011
12:14 pm

“So Zap, tell us, why DID you vote for Obama?”

I didn’t vote for Obama.

AmVet - Read my lips. No new Texans!

August 31st, 2011
12:15 pm

Today, the concentration of wealth and its political power has reached stunning intensities. In large companies, people who work in the same enterprise are now earning $1 for every $416 that the CEO takes away. In 1940, it was $1 for every $12. Today the financial wealth of the top 1% of households exceeds the combined wealth of the bottom 95% of American households. Earlier this year Bill Gates’ wealth was equal to the combined wealth of the poorest 120 million Americans. Whatever this enormous imbalance says about the great software imitator from Redmond, Washington, it means that tens of millions of Americans, who work year after year, decade after decade, are nearly broke. What democracy worth its salt would have led to this profound inequity? ~Ralph Nader

kayaker 71

August 31st, 2011
12:15 pm

AmVet12:11

And as long as you penalize excellence you will ultimately weaken the entire system. People attain wealth for different reasons. Many work very hard for what they have and should not have government standing behind them with a shaft at every turn. Just because I made it does not mean that you have a right to it.

jm

August 31st, 2011
12:16 pm

Joe Mama :)

Zap – if you want to really get them riled up, just bring up Dick Cheney…..

Bosch

August 31st, 2011
12:16 pm

IrRational,

We all do that. Sometimes even some of us can man up and admit we’re wrong! We all at some point use the blanket statments and sweeping broad brushes, it’s human nature.

Don’t worry about the name changer — he can’t control himself and he’ll be gone in a few days — just ignore — I agree with AmVet, three days tops.

Bosch

August 31st, 2011
12:17 pm

Ok, so the name changer has learned to by-pass that obvious give away. Too bad you can always tell who he is from they style of writing, you just can’t get away from that.

USinUK

August 31st, 2011
12:17 pm

“She got upset because I pointed out what a homeless person was wearing.”

nope. just pointed out that it’s a stupid thing to say … and YOU got upset.

(psst – it’s called “projection” – and seems to be a problem you suffer from)

Brosephus

August 31st, 2011
12:17 pm

It’s like Zap just gave up and let the tumor start doing all the talking for him.

Dammmit Joe Mama!!!!! I just soaked half my computer desk with water….

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

(ir)Rational

August 31st, 2011
12:17 pm

Bosch – Eh, I was thinking of poking it, seeing if maybe it had any teeth. :)

Oh-well. Who is John Galt?

USinUK

August 31st, 2011
12:18 pm

jm – don’t forget Alan Greenspan

(evil be his name)

jm

August 31st, 2011
12:18 pm

“on a “show” hosted by Suzanne Somers.”

Oh boy. USinUK is smack talking about Suzanne Somers. Gonna have to go get the big guns now….

MrLiberty

August 31st, 2011
12:19 pm

Uncle Sam destroys everything he touches. Why would you want to pay him more than the creative and productive CEO running your company. Government is a failure. No reason to reinforce that behavior with money or praise. Wake up Jay. The time for decentralization and self-governance is upon us.

Bosch

August 31st, 2011
12:19 pm

“Zap – if you want to really get them riled up, just bring up Dick Cheney…”

Riled up? He’s hardly worth the energy — nope, most of us realize he is evil personified and leave it at that and move on.

jm

August 31st, 2011
12:20 pm

Alan Greenspan is the biggest financial genius of all time and misunderestimated by liberals.

:)

(ir)Rational

August 31st, 2011
12:21 pm

Wait, Suzanne Somers is still around? I thought she had crawled in a hole somewhere and disappeared?

Oh-well. Who is John Galt?

Bosch

August 31st, 2011
12:21 pm

“Alan Greenspan is the biggest financial genius of all time and misunderestimated by liberals.”

I just threw up — and not in my mouth, and not just a little.

(Hehehehehehe USinUK, I so stole that from you — and please don’t kill poor jm, he doesn’t know what he says).

Tommy Maddox

August 31st, 2011
12:21 pm

Maybe CEOs get huge checks because their corporations are HUGELY successful.

Brosephus

August 31st, 2011
12:21 pm

Bosch: If Doom, Talking Head, and (ir)Rational could get past the “Well you libs think and do this” stuff…..they’d be alright!

I tend to just gloss over those statements as I see some on the left commit the same infraction. Doom and (ir)Rational are ok in my book. Talking Head has too much of that attack first, attack often mentality for me. That’s just my opinion though.

(ir)Rational

August 31st, 2011
12:21 pm

jm – Please provide a definition for misunderestimated. Thank you.

Oh-well. Who is John Galt?

Bosch

August 31st, 2011
12:22 pm

Wow, it’s been like 8 whole minutes since the name changer posted….is there hope?

USinUK

August 31st, 2011
12:24 pm

Bosch – I think the smiley says that he does!

:-) (evil, jm!!!!)

(ir)Rational

August 31st, 2011
12:24 pm

Brosephus – I learned from playing Risk that attacking first and often usually results in an early exit from the game, and typically gets everyone upset with you and after you. Doesn’t always apply, but you know, good rule of thumb.

Oh-well. Who is John Galt?

AmVet - Read my lips. No new Texans!

August 31st, 2011
12:25 pm

71, I believe your premise is fatally flawed by using the word penalize.

penalize – verb
to put under a disadvantage or handicap.

Obviously the exact opposite has happened and the American worker – NOT the man making 400 times as much – has been penalized, wouldn’t you say?

I can even understand 40 times as much, but this current untenable debacle is absurd, contrived, gargantuanly counter-productive and spells HUGE trouble for the future of we the people’s republic. Look around at your neighbors, etc. Do you not agree that Middle class Americans are getting absolutely clobbered left and right?

This is not an accident. It is by plan.

I think even the most ardent “free market” (HA!) thinkers understand that a plutocracy now exists in the United States of America.

plutocracy – noun
the rule or power of wealth or of the wealthy.

USinUK

August 31st, 2011
12:25 pm

SoCoBro – (ir) is better than alright – he cracks me the heck up – and he always makes me keep my eye out to spot Mr. Galt.

Bosch

August 31st, 2011
12:25 pm

Okay, I’ve resorted to eating the half open bag of chocolate chips that I found in my desk, so I must go get nourishment.

Later folks!

And agreed Bro. :) After Doom’s drunk bloggin incident and consequent banning, I feel as though we are brothers in arms! :) But I wasn’t drunk when I got banned….

Joe

August 31st, 2011
12:25 pm

And your point is Jay? I assume it would be that these rich people don’t pay their fair share. LOL… This is the same tired old liberal argument but facts that these people pay 50% of tax revenues alone is almost always conveniently left out. Another fact is that half the country’s workforce pays no income taxes. Is it fair that many if not all of these people still get a tax refund through democrat lead credits? That’s what I call not fair!!!!

(ir)Rational

August 31st, 2011
12:26 pm

Oh, and just so y’all don’t think I’m a girly man, if you come in my house uninvited, I’ll attack first and often. Don’t want ya’ll getting the wrong impression. ;)

Oh-well. Who is John Galt?

DebbieDoRight

August 31st, 2011
12:26 pm

RB: And it seems the vast majority of the Democrats platform is based around keeping their “benefit” coming, so why would anybody be surprised by that?

Don’t you ever get tired of repeating that same old tired crap? You can’t substantiate it, but I guess you figure if you keep saying it over and over and over and over that someone will finally believe it.

:roll:

jm

August 31st, 2011
12:26 pm

“Please provide a definition for misunderestimated. ”

A word invented by Bush that I think is hilarious. If Webster ever puts it in……

Joe

August 31st, 2011
12:26 pm

Jay you are really working overtime since the other far left fruit Tucker is gone…. LOL….

USinUK

August 31st, 2011
12:26 pm

Bosch

August 31st, 2011
12:27 pm

“Maybe CEOs get huge checks because their corporations are HUGELY successful.”

Or Tommy, maybe it’s because they get tax breaks and their profits are higher and they pocket it.

:roll:

(ir)Rational

August 31st, 2011
12:27 pm

USinUK – That is my main goal in life. To crack people up. Well sorta, my main goal is obviously to meet John Galt, but that is a different story. :)

Oh-well. Who is John Galt?

kayaker 71

August 31st, 2011
12:27 pm

Ah, this great country of ours, where you can attain most anything you want with hard work and dedication. Eight hours days have rarely produced wealth. Failing to graduate from high school will shrink your wallet considerably. If you feel that someone owes you just because you made some bad decisions, you are living in the wrong country…. at least for now. What I have worked hard for does not belong to you, no matter who you are. You are not entitled to profit from my good fortune. Maybe in China or North Korea but not in the US. Go to work, get a job. Quit whining. This country will allow you to be anything you want. You just have to want it bad enough.

larry

August 31st, 2011
12:28 pm

Oh-well. Who is John Galt?

Ive already answered this once, He owns John Galt INC. in Douglasville on Sullivan street .

That is who John Galt is.

Paul

August 31st, 2011
12:28 pm

Bosch

Just because you can’t figure out how to enter comments in a block that’s already been posted….

Doggone/GA

August 31st, 2011
12:28 pm

“Maybe CEOs get huge checks because their corporations are HUGELY successful”

I wouldn’t argue that, but I would argue that IF a corporation is so hugely successful and profitable that their CEO’s salary can be increased by 28%, then that same percentage increase should ALSO go to the employees. After all, it is THEY who do the grunt work that made the corporation able to BE that profitable.

getalife

August 31st, 2011
12:28 pm

The attention troll character is annoying.

Use it in rw blogs.

Then they will ban you.

Brosephus

August 31st, 2011
12:28 pm

(ir)Rational

I never played Risk, but I understand the logic. Whenever I see people here attacking the messenger as opposed to dissecting the message, that’s a clear cut sign that they’ve lost the debate. Hubris keeps us from openly admitting when we’ve been beaten by someone else. It’s more of an embarrassment when someone, who we feel are not our political equal, has gotten the best of us.

Many of the pseudo-conservatives and pseudo-liberals alike think their political opposites are beneath them when it comes to intellectual political discourse. That’s why you’ll see me often refer to the pseudos as opposed to the groups themselves.

jm

August 31st, 2011
12:29 pm

“But I wasn’t drunk when I got banned….”

There seems to be a high recidivism rate around here….. good things Jay’s not handing out misdemeanors. Which isn’t a crime anyway.

Brosephus

August 31st, 2011
12:30 pm

As far as looking for John Galt, if he ever comes through my line at work, I’ll most definitely let him know there are people looking for him. :)

BeeJay

August 31st, 2011
12:30 pm

My first reaction when I read your title was, “So?” I think I’ll leave it at it.

Paul

August 31st, 2011
12:31 pm

jm

“Suzanne Somers. Gonna have to go get the big guns now….”

She’s gonna slap you…..

DebbieDoRight

August 31st, 2011
12:31 pm

Joe: This is the same tired old liberal argument but facts that these people pay 50% of tax revenues alone is almost always conveniently left out.

Oh no!! Not the “they pay all the taxes!!” fallacy AGAIN?! (sigh)

Zap Rowsdower

August 31st, 2011
12:33 pm

“The attention troll character is annoying.”

Indeed you are.

(ir)Rational

August 31st, 2011
12:34 pm

Bro – Thanks. Larry, he isn’t the REAL John Galt. I checked. ;) Gonna go eat some food now.

Oh-well. Who is John Galt?

Paul

August 31st, 2011
12:34 pm

Tommy Maddox

“Maybe CEOs get huge checks because their corporations are HUGELY successful.”

So if CEOs get the big bucks

and if Corporations now have the highest profits in decades under the overnment (Obama Administration) policies..

if they pay CEO’s millions,

why shouldn’t they also pay the government millions?

Zap Rowsdower

August 31st, 2011
12:35 pm

Obama’s poll number is now 38%. That’s getting to W 2008 levels.

Aquagirl

August 31st, 2011
12:35 pm

Oh no!! Not the “they pay all the taxes!!” fallacy AGAIN?!

What, you didn’t enjoy it the first 283,397 times?

jm

August 31st, 2011
12:36 pm

“why shouldn’t they also pay the government millions?”

Why should they pay the government anything?

RB from Gwinnett

August 31st, 2011
12:36 pm

“And all of them pay exactly that percentage every time, right? THE HUMANITY!”

Ummm, yes, they do. The options are to take deductions they are entitled to take and would be STUPID not to take or to cheat on their taxes and hope they don’t get caught. Since ALL of the publicly held companies are audited by 3rd party accounting firms to verify they are following the rules, I’d say you have absolutely no clue what you’re talking about (as usual).

DawgDad

August 31st, 2011
12:36 pm

Well, we could solve the offshore problem and a lot of others by eliminating corporate income taxes entirely. Is that a complete solution? No, but it’s a good start and hits at the core issue.

Thogwummpy

August 31st, 2011
12:36 pm

Hmmm….I wonder why Bookman won’t out these officers by name? Maybe, because there are glaring examples like Jeff Immelt; the GE CEO who is a slobbering, worshiping sycophant of Barack Obama! Speaking of corporations….I wonder why Bookman never did a piece exposing the safety and environmental quid pro quo regulatory concessions that BP got in return for their massive campaign contributions to Obama, before the Deep Water Horizon disaster. We all know if Obama had been a Republican, Bookman would have based multiple columns upon this with all the expected charges of corruption! Wanna know why Fox News and talk radio are so popular? Because the rest of the media are Bookman-ish zombies that won’t report anything that’s unfavorable to their partisanship (which they promote behind the fraudulent mask of “journalistic objectivity”…that ain’t).

jm

August 31st, 2011
12:37 pm

Obama wants joint session of congress for jobs speech.

I’d say no way unless I knew what was in it. You know, like corporate tax reform.

Granny Godzilla

August 31st, 2011
12:37 pm

Here’s an interesting tidbit….

The President has requested a joint session of Congress September 7th for his jobs speech.

getalife

August 31st, 2011
12:39 pm

The President will speak to congress on his jobs plan.

I doubt the wealth care party can behave themselves.

Zap Rowsdower

August 31st, 2011
12:39 pm

“The President has requested a joint session of Congress September 7th for his jobs speech.”

After 3 years he’s finally focusing on jobs. Priceless.

Zap Rowsdower

August 31st, 2011
12:40 pm

Thogwummpy

Bookman is in the tank for Obama.

DebbieDoRight

August 31st, 2011
12:40 pm

What, you didn’t enjoy it the first 283,397 times?

I’m thinking about doing a macro with the rebuttal info — so that everytime I see that lie all I have to do is type in “Alt1234″ and it’ll automatically populate the correct info, with a link.

Not that the poster who posted said garbage would ever click on the link and actually READ it; but at least I’d feel like I’ve done my part to combat ridiculousness.

Paul

August 31st, 2011
12:40 pm

Joe

“And your point is Jay? I assume it would be that these rich people don’t pay their fair share”

Ummm…. no…. I don’t think in 16 pages of posts anyone else took that as Jay’s point….

WAW

August 31st, 2011
12:40 pm

Vote republican = vote against yourself, your family, your mama and daddy and for the corporate bottom line (that’s all that matters)

Granny Godzilla

August 31st, 2011
12:40 pm

jm

President Obama has been talking about corporate tax reform for nearly two years.

I suspect we will hear more on the 7th.

AmVet - Read my lips. No new Texans!

August 31st, 2011
12:41 pm

May 01, 2008

A new poll suggests that President Bush is the most unpopular president in modern American history.

A CNN/Opinion Research Corp. survey released Thursday indicates that 71 percent of the American public disapprove of how Bush is handling his job as president.

“No president has ever had a higher disapproval rating in any CNN or Gallup Poll; in fact, this is the first time that any president’s disapproval rating has cracked the 70 percent mark,” said Keating Holland, CNN’s polling director.

By November 2008, his approval rating would stand at 20%.

The worst ever…

Zap Rowsdower

August 31st, 2011
12:41 pm

Granny Godzilla

Just remember, no president has ever been re-elected with over 7% unemployment. It ain’t gonna drop that low by next November.

jm

August 31st, 2011
12:41 pm

oh this is funny. and obama wants to do the speech at the same time as a Republican debate.

What a joke. Obama is just all politics all the time. So much for trying to run the country, which I guess is better than him actually trying to do things.

jm

August 31st, 2011
12:42 pm

Granny G 12:40 you would be wrong. No tax reform in the proposal.

Joe

August 31st, 2011
12:42 pm

DebbieDoRight:

I understand sometimes facts get in the way of reality to liberals but this fight has already been fought by Obama. He lost. Get over it….

Zap Rowsdower

August 31st, 2011
12:42 pm

“A new poll suggests that President Bush is the most unpopular president in modern American history.”

Who did they poll? How many were polled? Yep, looks like another rat voter leaves out the details.

Unemployment was 7.6% when W left office. It’s been over 9% ever since.

Keep defending the bozo in the White House, rat voters. It’s all coming to an abrupt end next year.

DebbieDoRight

August 31st, 2011
12:43 pm

jm: Why should they pay the government anything?

So that the Government can afford all those soldiers, weapons, and tanks that they’ll need to protect their “overseas” investments. Why else?

Paul

August 31st, 2011
12:45 pm

jm

““why shouldn’t they also pay the government millions?”

Why should they pay the government anything?”

Read… assess… think…. consider answers…. rethink…. then post…..

why should anyone pay the government anything?

Joe Mama

August 31st, 2011
12:45 pm

Mr. Maddox — “Maybe CEOs get huge checks because their corporations are HUGELY successful.”

Kinda hard to make that claim about CEOs like Angelo Mozilo of Countrywide or Ken Lewis of Bank of America.

Mary Elizabeth

August 31st, 2011
12:46 pm

LWM @ 12:02

The sad part of the merger (of fundamentalist Christianity with Capitalism) has been the value placed on the accruing of wealth, not only by parishioners but by ministers, themselves, i.e. Prosperity Christianity. (Christ, of course, taught against value being placed on worldly possessions.)

Both have stereotypical images of human beings, i.e. winners and losers, and sinners and saved, as well as rigid ideologies that do not allow for depth, or variation, of thought. Both over emphasize work at the expense of pleasure. Guilt of pleasure, as well as judgment of others, is present in both. These ways of thinking exacerbate seeing divisions among people, rather than unity, which genuine humanity and love inspire.

Left wing management

August 31st, 2011
12:46 pm

Joe: “And your point is Jay? I assume it would be that these rich people don’t pay their fair share. LOL… This is the same tired old liberal argument but facts that these people pay 50% of tax revenues alone is almost always conveniently left out”

Poor Joe. Shilling for people who make more in an hour than he will likely make in the remainder of his working life. (Hint for Joe: They don’t really need you shilling for them. Not that they’re going to bother to tell you that.)

Hey, psst, Joe, let me let you in on a little fact. It’s very logical and I don’t want to overtax your ability to think abstract logic, but the greater the number of people who “pay no income taxes”, the greater the number of people who are being let down by an economy that does not provide opportunity for the great bulk of the population, the more people who are being systematically shut out of the economic life of the country.

If the wealthy finally do succeed in hoarding wealth such that they pay greater amounts of total revenues, let’s say well over half, then that will not be a measure of their generosity, my friend, but of their complete stranglehold on wealth production in the nation.

Zap Rowsdower

August 31st, 2011
12:46 pm

Obama is the first president in US history to see the credit rating drop to AA.

Obama = the worst president in US history.

Fly-On-The-Wall

August 31st, 2011
12:46 pm

Tommy,

You said “Maybe CEOs get huge checks because their corporations are HUGELY successful.”

What about those UNsucessful companies that still pay their CEOs HUGE amounts? The workers get the shaft and the CEO (and board) get the gold mine. Any outrage there?

Fly-On-The-Wall

August 31st, 2011
12:47 pm

Zap – get over it. The Republicans caused and S&P said so. Reading is so important these days.

Granny Godzilla

August 31st, 2011
12:48 pm

Zap

They said he’s never be elected the first time too….no worries mate.

Prepare yourself emotionally for his second term.

jm

Wow! You got the leaked text?

DawgDad

August 31st, 2011
12:48 pm

“Vote republican = vote against yourself, your family, your mama and daddy and for the corporate bottom line (that’s all that matters)”

You’re entitled to your opinion, but you obviously don’t understand the Republican base.

As for Obama focusing on jobs, ahem, empty rhetoric.

Fly-On-The-Wall

August 31st, 2011
12:48 pm

and typing is even more important! I meant to say ‘The Republicans caused IT and S&P said so.’ Whew.

Hmmmmmmmmm

August 31st, 2011
12:48 pm

Granny

If Obama is elected for another term, you be sure you buy some very GOOD strong locks to put on your doors…. What his advisers have not destroyed in this term, there may be rioting in his second term… I mean this bubble is going to bust, just a matter of time….

Aquagirl

August 31st, 2011
12:49 pm

why should anyone pay the government anything?

Ah, pure, distilled pseudo-libertarian thought. The sad part is jm probably thinks that’s an actual valid question.

Joe Mama

August 31st, 2011
12:49 pm

Zap — “Just remember, no president has ever been re-elected with over 7% unemployment. It ain’t gonna drop that low by next November.”

Where was it during each of FDR’s re-elections? Would you happen to have those numbers handy?

out of the blue

August 31st, 2011
12:50 pm

Oh here we go again! Thogwummpy says that Jeff Immelt the “GE CEO who is a slobbering, worshiping sycophant of Barack Obama!”

Now Thog…help me understand how Immelt is a is a slobbering, worshiping sycophant of Barack Obama!

You said it….and broke my BS meter!

Hmmmmmmmmm

August 31st, 2011
12:50 pm

Zap,

Bill Clinton runs a close race for the worst, Jimmy Carter may fall in second…. The list is long….

Granny Godzilla

August 31st, 2011
12:51 pm

Zap

Yep, it happened on his watch.

As America was watching the GOP force us to that point.

Granny Godzilla

August 31st, 2011
12:52 pm

HMMMMMMM

Sad that you are so fearful.

Live is short and courage is easy.

Zap Rowsdower

August 31st, 2011
12:52 pm

“The Republicans caused and S&P said so. Reading is so important these days.”

Uh huh, 2012 is gonna be a bad year for the rats.

Zap Rowsdower

August 31st, 2011
12:53 pm

“Where was it during each of FDR’s re-elections?”

That was before term limits. We have term limits because of him.

AmVet - Read my lips. No new Texans!

August 31st, 2011
12:53 pm

“Just remember, no president has ever been re-elected with over 7% unemployment. It ain’t gonna drop that low by next November.”

Patently fallacious.

Ronald Reagan – 1984, 7.2%
FDR – 1936 – 17%

USinUK

August 31st, 2011
12:55 pm

“Unemployment was 7.6% when W left office.”

of course, you conveniently ignore that it ws 4.2% when W took office

Granny Godzilla

August 31st, 2011
12:55 pm

“2012 is gonna be a bad year for the rats”

Yes, but I wouldn’t call the GOP rats.

Slow learners perhaps?

AmVet - Read my lips. No new Texans!

August 31st, 2011
12:55 pm

Bill Clinton runs a close race for the worst, Jimmy Carter may fall in second.

Which of these eleven presidents we have had since World War II would you consider the worst president?

George W. Bush (34%)
Richard Nixon (17%)
Bill Clinton (16%)
Jimmy Carter (13%)
Don’t Know/No Answer (5%)
Lyndon B. Johnson (4%)
George H. W. Bush (3%)
Ronald Reagan (3%)
Gerald Ford (2%)
Harry S. Truman (1%)
John F. Kennedy (1%)
Dwight D. Eisenhower (<1%)

Not even close.

Own it, he's yours.

DebbieDoRight

August 31st, 2011
12:56 pm

DawgDad: Well, we could solve the offshore problem and a lot of others by eliminating corporate income taxes entirely. Is that a complete solution? No, but it’s a good start and hits at the core issue.

But if corporations want to be considered as “individuals, (Supremes announced a landmark decision establishing for the first time that corporations enjoy the same First Amendment free-speech rights as individuals, 558 U.S. 08-205); then why not?

Do, we as private individuals have to pay taxes? Then why shouldn’t a corporation who has decided to become an individual not pay?

AmVet - Read my lips. No new Texans!

August 31st, 2011
12:57 pm

Which of these eleven presidents we have had since World War II would you consider the worst president?

George W. Bush (34%)
Richard Nixon (17%)
Bill Clinton (16%)
Jimmy Carter (13%)

Not even close.

Own it neo-cons, he’s yours.

Zap Rowsdower

August 31st, 2011
12:58 pm

“Prepare yourself emotionally for his second term.”

You must also believe that the demos won in 2010 as well. Hey, I bet you also believe that Scott Walker will be recalled.

Zap Rowsdower

August 31st, 2011
12:59 pm

“of course, you conveniently ignore that it ws 4.2% when W took office

Which you ignore the dot com bust and 9-11. What was it in 2006? 4.2%.

Yep, nothing like UK’s poor memory.

Hmmmmmmmmm

August 31st, 2011
12:59 pm

Not fearful, just reality…. You can screw up only so much before the consequences are felt… It’s people who keep their heads in the sand that are really to blame… I mean you obviously voted for the man…. and you continue to support a man who is in totally over his head… Hey, you reap what you sew….. and we are reaping abundantly…

Life IS short, and it’s sad that this country has dropped to this point in history. Courage must not be so easy, as you and millions don’t have the courage to admit when your wrong….

Oh well, as I said, the clock is ticking…….

USinUK

August 31st, 2011
12:59 pm

GG – “Prepare yourself emotionally for his second term.”

I think we should buy him a wubby … he’s gonna need it

Paul

August 31st, 2011
12:59 pm

AmVet

““Where was it during each of FDR’s re-elections?”

That was before term limits. We have term limits because of him.”

“Ronald Reagan – 1984, 7.2%”

See, that was before Republicans altered the space-time continuum and repealed term limits but put them back in after Pres Reagan was reelected.

Zap

This is the part where other bloggers posted it’s okay to say ‘wow, I blew that one… nevermind….”

Zap Rowsdower

August 31st, 2011
1:00 pm

“Ronald Reagan – 1984, 7.2%
FDR – 1936 – 17%”

7.2% is close to 7%, Sham. FDR was before term limits.

Try again, Sham.

Oh, and your beloved Obama is done. Over with.

You own the AA rating, Sham.

jm

August 31st, 2011
1:00 pm

Buffett worked to minimize tax expenses for the private partnerships he managed in the 1960s, a focus that helped form his buy-and-hold stock-picking strategy and build his own personal wealth, Matthews said, citing Buffett’s letters to investors. For most of the 1960s, capital gains were taxed at a maximum effective rate of 25 percent while top wage earners paid marginal income tax rates of 70 percent to 91 percent, depending on the year.

As a money manager, Buffett’s performance compensation was taxed at capital-gains rates, Matthews said.

“Here’s a guy who benefited from the exact same inefficiency in the market that he’s now yapping about,” said Matthews, who owns Berkshire stock. “What he’s not saying is, ‘Look guys, I ran a hedge fund, I used to benefit from the same tax advantages I’m complaining about now.’”

DawgDad

August 31st, 2011
1:00 pm

“Prepare yourself emotionally for his second term.”

Substitute “economically” for “emotionally” and you’re on to something. We emotionally survived Obama and a Democratically controlled Congress for two years, but it’s not at all clear we’ve survived economically. As long as we get a Republican Congress things will be managable, but if the leftists regain control and fully implement their health care agenda we’re all screwed to the max.

Zap Rowsdower

August 31st, 2011
1:00 pm

“George W. Bush (34%)
Richard Nixon (17%)
Bill Clinton (16%)
Jimmy Carter (13%)”

Obama – 38%

AmVet - Read my lips. No new Texans!

August 31st, 2011
1:02 pm

For those of you old enough to remember Sesame Street, “One of these things is not like the others…”

http://defendingthepublicgood.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/Multiplier-of-CEO-pay4.png

DebbieDoRight

August 31st, 2011
1:02 pm

As for Obama the newly elected republican majority in congress focusing on jobs [that they campaigned on], ahem, empty rhetoric

There! Fixed it for ya.

USinUK

August 31st, 2011
1:02 pm

Zap – in Jan 2001, it was 4.2% – he never got it that low again … and he ended his 8 years with 7.8% and heading north when Obama took office.

you really don’t want to challenge my memory when it comes to economic statistics.

USinUK

August 31st, 2011
1:03 pm

DDR – but … but … but … they said it was their #1 priority!

Joe Mama

August 31st, 2011
1:04 pm

Zap — “That was before term limits. We have term limits because of him.”

Irrelevant to your previous claim. Your previous claim was:

“Just remember, no president has ever been re-elected with over 7% unemployment. It ain’t gonna drop that low by next November.”

Once again, where was it during each of FDR’s re-elections? Would you happen to have those numbers handy, please?

jm

August 31st, 2011
1:04 pm

Aquagirl 12:49 – it is a fair question. I think the shareholders should have to pay. But why should C-corps?

S-corps don’t, LLC’s don’t, LP’s don’t, LLP’s don’t. Need I go on?

Ah, the stoooopidity, just amazing (as libs would say and I’ll repeat for their benefit)

Zap Rowsdower

August 31st, 2011
1:05 pm

Common Sense

August 31st, 2011
1:05 pm

How Liberals try to argue:
“Kinda hard to make that claim about CEOs like Angelo Mozilo of Countrywide or Ken Lewis of Bank of America.”

Pick an individual case that proves they are correct, rather than looking at the results of a group overall.

This way, they can ALWAYS prove that they are correct.

AmVet - Read my lips. No new Texans!

August 31st, 2011
1:06 pm

Paul, pointing out ignorance and petulance is just too damn easy sometimes!

It would seem that unfortunately we’re seeing the sad results of a closed down Tucker forum.

But once again, this one ain’t gonna last very long here. Jay doesn’t put up with the racist louts like Ms. Tucker did…

Common Sense

August 31st, 2011
1:06 pm

“What about those UNsucessful companies that still pay their CEOs HUGE amounts? The workers get the shaft and the CEO (and board) get the gold mine. Any outrage there?”

Sell your shares and move on.

Then it’s not your issue any longer.

Granny Godzilla

August 31st, 2011
1:06 pm

USinUK

August 31st, 2011
1:06 pm

Zap 4.6% /= 4.2%

I take it math isn’t your strong suit

Fly-On-The-Wall

August 31st, 2011
1:06 pm

Zap,

At least wait until his second term is over before coming up with a number for Obama.

Zap Rowsdower

August 31st, 2011
1:07 pm

“It would seem that unfortunately we’re seeing the sad results of a closed down Tucker forum.”

Yep, they just couldn’t afford to pay a lunatic racist anymore. Too bad.

Common Sense

August 31st, 2011
1:08 pm

“why should anyone pay the government anything?”

Because at this point in history the majority have said so. But the tide is turning…..

Zap Rowsdower

August 31st, 2011
1:08 pm

“At least wait until his second term is over before coming up with a number for Obama.”

If you believe that, I have some swamp land to sell you in Montana.

DebbieDoRight

August 31st, 2011
1:08 pm

As long as we get a Republican Congress things will be managable,

I’m really amazed at the revisionist history that keeps coming up on this blog! Republican congress rubberstamped any and everything that Bush put before them. Medicare Part D – too expensive? RUBBERSTAMP; Do away with the Pay-As-You-G0 System? — no problem RUBBERSTAMP; Borrow even MORE money from China at a ridiculous interest rate that’d make a loan shark swoon with envy — RUBBERSTAMP.

out of the blue

August 31st, 2011
1:09 pm

jm, Matthews is a very common name…So how about offering up his first name… you can handle that….but one never knows, kinda like Gary Matthews, or joe, or sam! Get the drift?

ragnar danneskjold

August 31st, 2011
1:10 pm

Headline: husband gives more of his salary to his wife than to the street mugger

Joe Mama

August 31st, 2011
1:10 pm

Common Sense — “How Liberals try to argue”

An overarching and general claim was made, and I refuted it with two specific examples. There are many more I can offer if you like.

“Pick an individual case that proves they are correct, rather than looking at the results of a group overall.”

I can present *many* more cases of CEOs who recently presided over failed and failing corporations. The fact of the matter is that executive compensation is and has been disconnected from executive PERFORMANCE for years.

“This way, they can ALWAYS prove that they are correct.”

If posters are going to be so foolish as to make general and easily-disproven claims, that’s not my fault. Clearly you WANT the assertion to be true; the problem is that the facts let you down.

Brosephus

August 31st, 2011
1:11 pm

USinner @ 1:06

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Zap Rowsdower

August 31st, 2011
1:12 pm

“I take it math isn’t your strong suit”

Guess you didn’t read that article.

Hmmmmmmmmm

August 31st, 2011
1:13 pm

Funny ragnar…..

USinUK

August 31st, 2011
1:13 pm

SoCoBro – it never ceases to amaze me how the simplest of things seem to be beyond some people.

jm

August 31st, 2011
1:14 pm

out of the blue – no I don’t. but why don’t you clarify your question

USinUK

August 31st, 2011
1:14 pm

Zap – 4.6% > 4.2%

that’s how math works.

DebbieDoRight

August 31st, 2011
1:14 pm

UsnK: DDR – but … but … but … they said it was their #1 priority!

:lol:

jm: I think the shareholders should have to pay. But why should C-corps?

If they want to be considered as “individuals” then they should pay just like an “individual” tax payer. Same percentages. same laws. Welcome to “individualism”.

Adam

August 31st, 2011
1:14 pm

RB: Ummm, yes, they do. The options are to take deductions they are entitled to take and would be STUPID not to take or to cheat on their taxes and hope they don’t get caught. Since ALL of the publicly held companies are audited by 3rd party accounting firms to verify they are following the rules, I’d say you have absolutely no clue what you’re talking about (as usual).

All corporations do not pay 39.2% tax. That is a fact.

It’s obvious that you not only believe you are right when you’re not, but that you actually think you made a point. As such, there is no further point in discussing something with you.

Joe Mama

August 31st, 2011
1:15 pm

Headline: husband refuses to give any of his salary to his wife; tells her “work for it, hippie”

Zap Rowsdower

August 31st, 2011
1:15 pm

“t never ceases to amaze me how the simplest of things seem to be beyond some people.”

Wonder how long one person can blog while “working.” It’s going on four hours for little cupcake.

Adam

August 31st, 2011
1:15 pm

jm: What a joke. Obama is just all politics all the time. So much for trying to run the country, which I guess is better than him actually trying to do things.

Funny that this same argument doesn’t get applied to House Republicans, who haven’t focused on jobs themselves and focus entirely on politics all the time, including when a big-ass hurricane hits.

Rightwing Troll

August 31st, 2011
1:16 pm

“American Exceptionalism”

Heh… What a joke…

What exactly are we exceptional at anymore?

Talking Head

August 31st, 2011
1:16 pm

Isn’t Bill Clinton making a couple million for his speeches? I bet he’s not paying enough to Uncle Sam either…I mean he get’s a more than fair pension from Uncle Sam already, he’s being greedy pocketing all that extra cash.

Zap Rowsdower

August 31st, 2011
1:16 pm

“that’s how math works.”

You should check out Hooked on phonics. Works for most people with low brain cells so it should work just fine for you. You also might be able to find a mate.

Adam

August 31st, 2011
1:16 pm

Zap: Who did they poll? How many were polled?

Oh, I’m saving a link to this post for every time a con brings up a poll.

jm

August 31st, 2011
1:17 pm

out of the blue

Jeff Matthews, author of “Secrets in Plain Sight: Business and Investing Secrets of Warren Buffett.”

Granny Godzilla

August 31st, 2011
1:17 pm

If corporations are people would the (probably not gonna happen)
ATT and T-Mobile merger be a same business marriage and would that be an
affront to God and all christendom?

Michael

August 31st, 2011
1:18 pm

My favorite CEO was Ken Lay. He bankrupted the company, and lied to the auditors and shareholders along the way. Then, he froze the 401 K plan so employees could not sell their stock, while Ken was selling his. He was the embodiment of the camel and the eye of the needle story.
In the investment arena Bernie Maddof won the prize; although the Goldman team that sold bonds while they were betting against them comes close.
CEOs should be issued a rifle and a uniform and put on the next plane to Afghanistan. Walk a month with the marines in some of those valleys. Then, they can come back and defend why their marginal tax rate can be less than a sergeant’s marginal tax rate. If they can’t create some jobs then, send them back for another month.

DebbieDoRight

August 31st, 2011
1:18 pm

Oh, I’m saving a link to this post for every time a con brings up a poll.

Me too. :wink:

Aquagirl

August 31st, 2011
1:19 pm

jm, I’m not a corporate tax expert, but maybe the rest of us don’t like the idea of non-residents running a corporation using taxpayer infrastructure and free speech rights while paying no taxes.

I’m sure the IRS would be thrilled to try and get a bunch of Chinese shareholders to file 1040’s. Gee, no problem there.

USinUK

August 31st, 2011
1:20 pm

DDR – “If they want to be considered as “individuals” then they should pay just like an “individual” tax payer.”

if I remember correctly, I think they’re clamping down on S-Corp filers for just this reason.

Zap – “You should check out Hooked on phonics.”

phonics? for math?? um. yeah. sure, Zap. it has obviously worked out so well for you, I’ll get right on that.

Zap Rowsdower

August 31st, 2011
1:20 pm

To sum up this blog, all the little rat voters are jealous that other people have more money than them. Oh, and all white people are racists.

Zap Rowsdower

August 31st, 2011
1:21 pm

“phonics? for math??”

Poor UK. Her brain cells are fried.

Joe Mama

August 31st, 2011
1:21 pm

Zap — “Wonder how long one person can blog while “working.” It’s going on four hours for little cupcake.”

Given that it’s after 6 PM over there, I doubt she’s working.

SwedeAtlanta

August 31st, 2011
1:21 pm

Those that argue that corporations offshore due to the relatively high corporate tax rate in the U.S. miss the point that the EFFECTIVE tax rate on U.S. corporations (the point Jay is trying to make) is the lowest it has been in over 50 years and is much lower than those countries whose marginal rates are lower.

Corporations will offshore their profits to avoid even the minimal effective tax rate as long as they can get away with it. Corporations will offshore production ,etc. to counties with low wages and no to few benefits as long as those low-cost havens exist.

Corporations want to be treated as “people” so they have 1st Amendment Free Speech rights that include their ability to buy elections. But they would never agree to be taxed as a person. So which is it? Are you are person or a legal fiction that benefits from the protections of the U.S. legal system as it relates to personal liability?

USinUK

August 31st, 2011
1:21 pm

well, as much as I’d love to stay and be Zaps objet d’amour for the rest of the evening, it’s time to head out.

have a good one!

Adam

August 31st, 2011
1:21 pm

DawgDad: As for Obama focusing on jobs, ahem, empty rhetoric.

Starting early are ya?

Here’s my prediction:

1) Whatever Obama proposes in his jobs plan, the House Republicans will say no in a bloc. Some will say yes, and get drowned out by the louder ones who just want to make Obama a one term President.
2) The “Where’s your plan?” people will turn into “That plan sucks” people. To which my response will likely be “It doesn’t suck as much as the Ryan plan” or “It doesn’t actually suck, these are good ideas.” No further “Where’s your plan” cries will be heard, much like the rhetoric of “Where’s the birth certificate?” died out. It all goes back to “Show me your papers” really.

stands for decibels

August 31st, 2011
1:22 pm

Left wing management

August 31st, 2011
1:22 pm

Did you hear what that stupid rube — from some rube state no doubt — George Pataki had to say about Obama’s choice of themes for the commemmoration of the 9/11 attacks?

He apparently is disgruntled that the ceremonies aren’t going to be more jingoistic and paranoid and not emphasizing the fact that the attacks were an an attack on the US for its freedom.

What a complete anti-intellectual rube, that George Pataki. He should be condemned roundly for it.

DebbieDoRight

August 31st, 2011
1:22 pm

GG: If corporations are people would the (probably not gonna happen)
ATT and T-Mobile merger be a same business marriage and would that be an
affront to God and all christendom?

It would be like brothers & sisters marrying; cats and dogs fornicating; fish living openly with birds; and Univ of Kentucky / or Vanderbilt finally making a bowl game in this Century!! Armaggeddonnnnn!!!

Zap Rowsdower

August 31st, 2011
1:23 pm

“Given that it’s after 6 PM over there, I doubt she’s working.

Which proves my point that she’s single.

USinUK

August 31st, 2011
1:23 pm

oh, and Zap …

4.6% is MORE THAN 4.2%

(sorry for using math symbols earlier – I didn’t realize you were math illiterate)

Joe Mama

August 31st, 2011
1:23 pm

USinUK — “phonics? for math?? um. yeah. sure, Zap.”

And y’all thought I was joking about the tumor.

Zap Rowsdower

August 31st, 2011
1:23 pm

“well, as much as I’d love to stay and be Zaps objet d’amour for the rest of the evening, it’s time to head out.”

That singles bar won’t wait forever.

Adam

August 31st, 2011
1:23 pm

Zap: “The Republicans caused and S&P said so. Reading is so important these days.”

Uh huh, 2012 is gonna be a bad year for the rats.

Saved to my “Obama will lose” posts file for reposting use hen he wins.

Adam

August 31st, 2011
1:25 pm

Zap: Hey, I bet you also believe that Scott Walker will be recalled.

If he isn’t sincere in his efforts to reach across the aisle, yes he will be.

Zap Rowsdower

August 31st, 2011
1:25 pm

“Saved to my “Obama will lose” posts file for reposting use hen he wins.

That’ll also go with your “Al Gore, Walter Mondale, Michael Dukakis will win posts” as well.

Left wing management

August 31st, 2011
1:26 pm

Do you get on board with stupid rubes, Zap?

Granny Godzilla

August 31st, 2011
1:26 pm

Zap

No I believe is a Mr. USinUK….

Is there a Mr. Rowsdower as well? Do you still reside with him?

Joe Mama

August 31st, 2011
1:27 pm

Zap — “Which proves my point that she’s single.”

No, it’s a claim and it’s unsupported. I’m routinely at work late into the evening and I’m married.

I *think* I’ve seen US refer to a spouse, but I don’t recall. Then again, whether she’s married or not really isn’t germane to the discussion, is it?

A UK friend of mine visited the US for the first time earlier this summer and can’t stop going on about the “cute accents” of American women. If he’s typical of UK guys, then I think US — if she’s unmarried — probably gets all the male attention she wants.

Zap Rowsdower

August 31st, 2011
1:28 pm

“No I believe is a Mr. USinUK….”

Oh I forgot, you all “know” each other and hang out all day on a blog.

“Is there a Mr. Rowsdower as well? Do you still reside with him?”

No, because I’m not gay.

Adam

August 31st, 2011
1:28 pm

Common Sense: Pick an individual case that proves they are correct, rather than looking at the results of a group overall.

I’ll remember that the next time a con decides to use statistical outliers as evidence.

Zap Rowsdower

August 31st, 2011
1:28 pm

“Do you get on board with stupid rubes, Zap?”

yeah, UK does bore me.

DebbieDoRight

August 31st, 2011
1:29 pm

CEOs should be issued a rifle and a uniform and put on the next plane to Afghanistan. Walk a month with the marines in some of those valleys. Then, they can come back and defend why their marginal tax rate can be less than a sergeant’s marginal tax rate. If they can’t create some jobs then, send them back for another month.

Excellent! Best Corporate Package Plan I’ve ever seen!

Swede in Atlanta: Corporations want to be treated as “people” so they have 1st Amendment Free Speech rights that include their ability to buy elections. But they would never agree to be taxed as a person. So which is it? Are you are person or a legal fiction that benefits from the protections of the U.S. legal system as it relates to personal liability?

Amen. Swede. Amen.

Zap Rowsdower

August 31st, 2011
1:29 pm

“No, it’s a claim and it’s unsupported. I’m routinely at work late into the evening and I’m married.”

Working late to blog? Your bosses must love you.

Thanks to the Lottery Players in Georgia

August 31st, 2011
1:29 pm

Zap,

You must be happy here. Are you.

AmVet - Read my lips. No new Texans!

August 31st, 2011
1:30 pm

LWM, to his credit NY mayor Michael Bloomberg is going to allow NO politicians or clergy to pollute the September 11 10th anniversary ceremony.

It will be solely for the families.

Good on him…

Adam

August 31st, 2011
1:30 pm

Zap: Wonder how long one person can blog while “working.”

You mean you’re not timing yourself?

Logical Dude

August 31st, 2011
1:31 pm

US in UK says : 4.6% is MORE THAN 4.2%

That should say “4.6% is GREATER THAN 4.2%”

You know, for clarity’s sake. ;)

Joe Mama

August 31st, 2011
1:31 pm

Zap — “Oh I forgot, you all “know” each other and hang out all day on a blog.”

Not at all. It’s called “reading is fundamental.”

Emphasis on “fun” and “mental,” Zap.

Joe Mama

August 31st, 2011
1:32 pm

Zap — “Working late to blog? Your bosses must love you.”

They’re quite happy with my performance. Not that it’s — as your ideological compatriots have been saying today — any of your business.

Adam

August 31st, 2011
1:33 pm

Zap Rowsdower

August 31st, 2011
1:33 pm

“Not at all. It’s called “reading is fundamental.”

My bad, I haven’t been hanging out here long enough to know UK’s family history.

Granny Godzilla

August 31st, 2011
1:33 pm

Zap

You are male? Really?

getalife

August 31st, 2011
1:33 pm

The market is up so the wealth care party is doing a heck of a job.

They do not need any help.

Zap Rowsdower

August 31st, 2011
1:34 pm

“They’re quite happy with my performance. Not that it’s — as your ideological compatriots have been saying today — any of your business.”

Ah, so we’re now playing the contradiction game.

Adam

August 31st, 2011
1:34 pm

Joe Mama: Then again, whether she’s married or not really isn’t germane to the discussion, is it?

What post of Zap’s have you seen that’s germane to the discussion AT ALL?

DebbieDoRight

August 31st, 2011
1:34 pm

No, because I’m not gay.

Thank God!! Now you can save yourself for the woman of your dreams! :roll:

Joe Mama

August 31st, 2011
1:35 pm

Zap — “My bad, I haven’t been hanging out here long enough to know UK’s family history.”

You could always *ask* instead of leaping to conclusions and making attempts at insulting her.

DawgDad

August 31st, 2011
1:36 pm

No, Debbie, my comment was NOT revisionist history. I never said I approved of everything Bush and the Republicans did, and I tend to agree with the specific points you made. But you are wrong, the GOP Congress did NOT rubberstamp everything, and with a Republican Congress we (Republican base) were able to forestall Bush’s catastrophic immigration reform proposals, Dubai ports, etc.

Problem with the GOP politicians under Bush is they got greedy, like most politicians do. They spent like drunken — liberals. As a result they and the libs now have a growing Tea Party faction within the GOP base to contend with, and a renewed sense of economic direction deriving from the voice of the people.

getalife

August 31st, 2011
1:36 pm

zap will be zapped .

Granny Godzilla

August 31st, 2011
1:36 pm

Zap

I don’t believe you.

Anybody here think Zap is really male?

Joe Mama

August 31st, 2011
1:36 pm

Zap — “Ah, so we’re now playing the contradiction game.”

I’m pretty sure that *you* have been playing it all day long. I’m not.

DebbieDoRight

August 31st, 2011
1:37 pm

Sorry about your p*nis

Then mine would say, “What p#nis…..oh that! You call THAT a pe#nis?

Just kidding…………

Jefferson

August 31st, 2011
1:37 pm

I’m from the tribe that belives private companies should have less regulations than public companies in regards to profit. Profits belong to the owners, not the managers which all a CEO is anyway.

Zap Rowsdower

August 31st, 2011
1:38 pm

“I don’t believe you.”

I don’t care what you believe, cupcake. Why, because you don’t know me and I don’t know you and I’d love to keep it that way.

Zap Rowsdower

August 31st, 2011
1:38 pm

“One of my friends would say, at this point, to Zap: Sorry about your p*nis!”

Odd that Adam is interested in my manhood. It’s also interesting that I have about 5 bloggers who keep posting comments about me.

Joe Mama

August 31st, 2011
1:38 pm

DDR — “Then mine would say, “What p#nis…..oh that! You call THAT a pe#nis?”

As the old joke goes, the disappointed young woman asks her boyfriend “and just WHO do you think you’re going to satisfy with THAT?”

And he replies, “me.”

:D

Joe Mama

August 31st, 2011
1:40 pm

Zap — “Odd that Adam is interested in my manhood. It’s also interesting that I have about 5 bloggers who keep posting comments about me.”

You’re today’s blog chew-toy.

Left wing management

August 31st, 2011
1:40 pm

AmVet: “LWM, to his credit NY mayor Michael Bloomberg is going to allow NO politicians or clergy to pollute the September 11 10th anniversary ceremony.”

In my utopia, clergy and politicians — of the current stripe — would fear to show their faces in public for fear of an early date with the guillotine, 1789-style. Those politicians currently going under the label Independents are ahead of their time by scorning the labels the rest of the scum are happy to don.

Granny Godzilla

August 31st, 2011
1:40 pm

Zap

I don’t care that you don’t care, apple dumpling

I still think you are somebodies maiden aunt.

Adam

August 31st, 2011
1:40 pm

DawgDad: They spent like drunken — liberals

Do you have evidence to support the claim that liberals are the spenders and conservatives aren’t? Because it looks in practice to me like every time the conservatives get the majority, they spend more and tax cut more, skewing the entire process onto the credit card repeatedly. They don’t usually do temporary measures in an emergency either, but see every crisis as a chance to make PERMANENT change, even the fake crises.

Zap Rowsdower

August 31st, 2011
1:41 pm

“You’re today’s blog chew-toy.”

I guess all the folks on here, including you, who get welfare have to have something to do, right Joe?

Granny Godzilla

August 31st, 2011
1:41 pm

Chew toy?

May I suggest fire hydrant?

DebbieDoRight

August 31st, 2011
1:41 pm

Joe Mama – :lol:

Zap Rowsdower

August 31st, 2011
1:41 pm

“I don’t care that you don’t care, apple dumpling”

Great, then quit posting to everything I type, cupcake.

Zap Rowsdower

August 31st, 2011
1:43 pm

“May I suggest fire hydrant?”

Well, now we know Grannies little fetishes.

Joe Mama

August 31st, 2011
1:44 pm

Zap — “I guess all the folks on here, including you, who get welfare have to have something to do, right Joe?”

That’s right, Zap. My workfare program requires that I do rehab work with the mentally handicapped or else I have to sleep under a bush. But today, I’m pretty sure I’m getting a bonus.

You’ll be back tomorrow, right?

Thanks to the Lottery Players in Georgia

August 31st, 2011
1:44 pm

I don’t care what you believe, cupcake. Why, because you don’t know me and I don’t know you and I’d love to keep it that way.

I think you do care, Zap.

DebbieDoRight

August 31st, 2011
1:44 pm

They don’t usually do temporary measures in an emergency either, but see every crisis as a chance to make PERMANENT change, even the fake crises.

Terri Schiavo comes to mind. Remember that “stay” that they rushed a vote on and then had Bush to sign it? Yet in the same breath they say they’re about “personal liberty and responsibilities”. Un-Freakin-Believable.

Granny Godzilla

August 31st, 2011
1:46 pm

“Great, then quit posting to everything I type, cupcake.”

Nope….I didn’t listen to the maiden aunts in the old days why start now.

Ya’ really ought not get your girdle in a wad.

Thanks to the Lottery Players in Georgia

August 31st, 2011
1:46 pm

Don’t push your luck Jay. 4-5 of us have the ability to leave this blog to little more than getaclue and granny humping each other all day.

uh huh.

Logical Dude

August 31st, 2011
1:47 pm

Now people people people. . .
As fun as it seems to be, focusing on a person’s body part is not an appropriate part of the conversation.

Unless it’s the brain.

Zap Rowsdower

August 31st, 2011
1:47 pm

“Nope….I didn’t listen to the maiden aunts in the old days why start now.”

Granny needs attention from the nursing home. Can any of you rat voters get off the computer and take her on a walk?

Talking Head

August 31st, 2011
1:47 pm

Zap,

The rats are better at idiotic rambling arguments and will win everytime, see how far off of topic they have gotten you…it’s the only way they can argue.

Joe Mama

August 31st, 2011
1:48 pm

RB — “how are you going to feel if we all decide to stop?”

“Don’t push your luck Jay. 4-5 of us have the ability to leave this blog”

Jay, I think you should call his bluff. Even if the ranters leave, you’ll still get more posts than Kyle Wingfield or Rootin-Tootin Jim Wooten.

Zap Rowsdower

August 31st, 2011
1:48 pm

Logical Dude

It’s pretty sad that Adam and Debbie are obsessed over my manhood.

dbm

August 31st, 2011
1:49 pm

@ stands for decibels

August 31st, 2011
8:06 am

One problem with that article is that it misrepresents Ayn Rand’s views. She does not say that charity is evil. She has explicitly stated that there is nothing wrong with helping others if you can afford it and they are worthy of the help.

When Ayn Rand condemns “altruism”, she is condemning the altruist morality, the idea that we must subordinate our own interests to the interests of others.

Zap Rowsdower

August 31st, 2011
1:49 pm

Talking Head

Well yeah, that’s all they do. Call them out and all 5 of them go into attack mode. It’s pretty sad that they’ve resorted to talking about my manhood. What a sick world these whack jobs live in.

Cupcake

August 31st, 2011
1:49 pm

Sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet ….

Granny Godzilla

August 31st, 2011
1:49 pm

RB

We weep into our pillows just thinking of you taking your keyboard and cutting and running.

Thanks to the Lottery Players in Georgia

August 31st, 2011
1:51 pm

What has Zap posted regarding Jay’s topic. His posts look more like the typical Republican’s post to me — nothing related to the topic at hand.

Joe Mama

August 31st, 2011
1:51 pm

Zap — “It’s pretty sad that Adam and Debbie are obsessed over my manhood.”

Not at all; I think it’s really fortunate for you!

Either way, you’re covered for a date for Friday night.

dbm

August 31st, 2011
1:51 pm

@ stands for decibels

August 31st, 2011
8:06 am

I didn’t notice any acknowledgement in that article that government operates by physical force. Perhaps I didn’t read carefully enough. Can you point out something I missed?

Zap Rowsdower

August 31st, 2011
1:52 pm

Joe Mama

I’m taken. Like I told UK, match.com is ready when they are.

Jay

August 31st, 2011
1:53 pm

RB, it’s a free country. If you can do better elsewhere, go right ahead.

Two other points: Back off the personal attacks, everyone.

And fresh sheets.

Joe Mama

August 31st, 2011
1:53 pm

Zap — “I’m taken. Like I told UK, match.com is ready when they are.”

Tease.

Jay

August 31st, 2011
1:59 pm

Discuss the issues, rather than other bloggers, is the main rule, Zap. And yes, things did a bit out of control at the end of that previous thread, but you were not exactly the blameless victim in that.

BADA BING

August 31st, 2011
2:12 pm

1990s………It’s the Economy,Stupid
2010s……..It’s the Lack of an Economy, Stupid

Billybob

August 31st, 2011
2:28 pm

jay, 8:04
trying to brand someone else a racist like you tried to do to me with nothing more than you just saying it………pathetic and another sign that you and the radical left is hanging on by a thread and the more you hang on the funnier you get ‘homey……

Adam

August 31st, 2011
2:36 pm

I admit, I WAS wondering how far I could push that envelope. Luckily I don’t see what I can get away with and then continue to try to get away with it after I know.

Jay

August 31st, 2011
2:36 pm

BillyBob, unless you’re masquerading under another name, the 8:04 had nothing to do with you.

Billybob

August 31st, 2011
2:43 pm

jay,
you are right, the 8:04 had nothing to do with me, but it has everything to do with exposing who you and the radical left ARE and the techniques that you and your ilk employ to try to character assasinate anyone who doesn’t agree with you…..exposed much……pace yourself my friend it’s going to be a long year for you sir…..

Billybob

August 31st, 2011
2:47 pm

I am a falcons fan and i’ve called the falcons the coons’ for short for years…..do you have a problem with that? please share my friend…….

Billybob

August 31st, 2011
2:57 pm

Political Correctness race-baiting/race-politics by the left no longer shuts up your opponents bookman………liberal false media templates have been exposed and continue to be exposed by people like me……i call you on your words, why did you brand me a racist months ago based on nothing and why do you question calling the falcons the coons’? speak up my friend…….

Billybob

August 31st, 2011
2:59 pm

jay,
no answer here will speak volumes to all the people who post on your blog on a daily basis bookman………and help enlighten many sir….

Jay

August 31st, 2011
3:00 pm

BillyBob, if the shoe fits, wear it.

If it doesn’t, leave it for somebody else.

Your ranting doesn’t exactly add to your credibility.

Jay

August 31st, 2011
3:01 pm

You are exposing things, you are correct. Just not the things you think you’re exposing.

Billybob

August 31st, 2011
3:10 pm

let’s see…..you don’t respond to branding me a racist and then you say i am ranting and then you imply i am exposing things about myself to others…….so you don’t address anything i’ve said and distance yourself from your own words……just as i expected sir…..you have nothing…….except meaningless misdirection and dodging my legitimate issue created by your own words…….exposing your ilk is fun jay….see you again soon lib

Jay

August 31st, 2011
3:12 pm

BillyBob, ranting is not a recommended form of rebuttal to charges of ranting.

Billybob

August 31st, 2011
3:20 pm

Jay,
You falsely claim i am ranting when i am just talking……and then you change the subject to ranting and giving me a tutorial on the correct ways to rebut ideas without ranting is comical and has nothing to do with my issue………you are talking in circles and still haven’t answered my two simple questions….so when you are ready to do that please respond to them……anything else is meaningless and shows all here who and what jay bookman is about……

TruthBe

August 31st, 2011
3:22 pm

Democrats and their owners the Fatcats on wallstreet are the ones not paying their taxes. Just look into Obama’s administration for the crooks and criminals that don’t pay their tax bills. And Obama’s good buddy Warren Buffett and his company are 10 years behind in the taxes owned to the Government. Obama gave away Goldman Sachs to Warren Buffet in a insiders deal. Democrats = Corruption.

SwedeAtlanta

August 31st, 2011
3:44 pm

Truthbe = Falsehood

What are your facts to support your assertions? You are like all the other mindless parrots that chirp out what they hear on Faux News or other totally unreliable source.

Remember it was the Republics that gave no-bid contracts to Cheney’s buddies at Halliburton. Talk about sheer and utter greed and corruption.

What about the teabagger party spokesman from Illinois that is behind over $100K in his child support?

redneckbluedog

August 31st, 2011
4:03 pm

Tommy Maddox
August 31st, 2011
7:57 am

What has a CEO asked you to do lately?
——————————————————————

Vote for him some more tax cuts and deregulations so he can get 50% of the US wealth instead of 40% and run the economy off a cliff like in 2008…..

Billybob

August 31st, 2011
4:03 pm

truthbe and swedeatlanta,
you are both right……power corrupts people on both sides of the aisle which has led to the destruction of one civilization after another throughout history…….thus, limiting the power of the federal gov’t and promoting the power of the states and ultimately the individual would seem to make sense on many different levels………welcome to true conservatism people, this is what will lead us out of the mess that the dems and repubs have gotten us in at the moment……

redneckbluedog

August 31st, 2011
4:08 pm

Tommy Maddox
August 31st, 2011
7:57 am

What has a CEO asked you to do lately?
———————————————————————

Vote to get rid of unions and the minimum wage…..vote to defund the EPA so they can push bisphenol A in food and beverage cans….Just ask Atlanta’s own Coca-Cola….Let them become a monopoly again (ATT)…..Give up pensions and insurance, so stockholders can make a nickel…Not get mad when they dump a bunch of oil in the Gulf of Mexico or a bunch of fly-ash in the Clinch River….Not get mad when they move their business to Ireland and Switzerland….Let them drill for oil in the Everglades and ANWR……Transport nuclear waste across the country…..Let kids take guns to school…..WOW…This list is getting quite long….And I haven’t even started in on the Koch brothers…:-)….Seems like billionares wouldn’t be so “high maintenance”…..

SwedeAtlanta

August 31st, 2011
4:14 pm

Billybob, I would not support promoting the power of the states if it means a state like Georgia. The people under the Golden Dome have demonstrated a complete lack of competence. I would rather have a Girl Scout troop (no offense to them) running Georgia than the corrupt Deal-making governor we have and the slime under the state capitol building.

redneckbluedog

August 31st, 2011
4:16 pm

Tommy Maddox
August 31st, 2011
7:57 am
What has a CEO asked you to do lately?
———————————————————————-

Pay money to carry a bag on an airplane…Bail them out when they made bad investments…Vote to increase defense spending during very high deficits……

Jay

August 31st, 2011
4:22 pm

Truthbe, if you attack other bloggers, you will be gone.

Capice?

TruthBe

August 31st, 2011
4:30 pm

Jay I was responsing to what SwedeAtlanta said to me. If you want us to play fair then be fair and say something to the lefty’s when they attack us first. thank you.Truthbe

SwedeAtlanta

August 31st, 2011
4:42 pm

Truthbe, I wasn’t attacking you. I was simply pointing out that you make broad assertions that appear to be the parroting of what I hear when my tv scanning or radio tuning passes the right-wing blogosphere without any facts to support them.

I then provided specific examples of corruption (no-bid contracts to companies with historic ties to the U.S. Vice President) and the hypocrisy of a teaparty heavyweight that talks about people that don’t pay any taxes, etc. but is over $100K behind in his child support.

I try very hard to challenge the views of other bloggers. Now my views of politicians are not always so kind as my view that we have alot of “slime” under the golden dome.

TruthBe

August 31st, 2011
5:33 pm

SwedeAtlanta you did attack me, read your post. Your apology accepted.
FACTS: Many democrats in the Obama adminstration have been tax cheats. Even our Sec.of Treasury Geiter who has the IRS under his authority is a tax cheat. Rep.Charlie Rangel Dem.NY who wrote and made into law our IRS tax codes is a tax cheat.Obama has lied to the American People over and over. For example Obamacare, illegal emigration, Wars, Troops Comming Home, Tax increases, etc…Where do you want to go. This adminstration is the most dishonest and corrupt adminstration in ALL American History. Many of the big money Democrat supporters are tax cheats.

deegee

August 31st, 2011
5:34 pm

And these highly qualified, high risk taking CEOs would love to invest more money in the US if it weren’t for so much “uncertainty.” I don’t think the American people truly understand how badly they have been screwed by the accountants and finance people that run today’s American corporations. When innovators and entrepreneurs were running corporate America the only uncertainty that existed was how they were going to produce a sufficient amount to meet the demand. Those days are long gone. The bean counter in charge couldn’t care less what their company makes. All they are interested in making is money.

dbm

August 31st, 2011
7:29 pm

@ deegee

August 31st, 2011
5:34 pm

There is much more uncertainty now than there was before because government is much more controlling and pervasive than it was before, and the government’s rules keep changing with the winds of politics.

deegee

August 31st, 2011
9:43 pm

dbm, when did you get interested in politics? Yesterday?

[...] a deeply discounted 5 percent tax rate if they bring these funds back home … Read more on Atlanta Journal Constitution (blog) Tags: Latest, Massachusetts, News, Property, [...]

BP

September 1st, 2011
2:36 am

Jay

August 31st, 2011
8:50 am
Did not see a response to your ?. Simply put the Democrats did not pay for, nor contribute to that exemption and the good Republicans take exception to that fact.

Alexander Solzhenitsyn

September 1st, 2011
1:37 pm

“In fact, 20 of the companies in question spent more money ‘lobbying lawmakers than they paid in corporate taxes. Eighteen gave more to the political campaigns of their favorite candidates than they paid to the IRS in taxes.’” And people wonder how these economic realities come into being? He who funds who writes the law, writes the law. For an interesting interview with Chuck Collins, co-author of the IPS report, check out Democracy Now!’s coverage: The notion that corporations are rewarding tax dodging should be nothing new. By law and structure, they are required to maximize short-term profit. As a method of cost-cutting, tax avoidance is perfectly understandable. Still, as Chuck Collins–co-author of the report–points out, corporations are not “sharing responsibility for addressing our nation’s fiscal challenges.” Luckily for all of us, they’re overwhelmingly responsible for addressing the fiscal challenges of political campaigns. Democracy Now! interviewed Chuck Collins about the report this morning: http://www.democracynow.org/2011/9/1/as_economy_lags_new_study_reveals

thin lizzy1

September 5th, 2011
10:15 pm

Google corporations not paying taxes,hundreds of articles stating around 60% of corporations pay no tax. All lies right?Why do so many people believe we have to kiss the rear end of business and let them pay nothing?If you benefit from our society,such as the national defense,the police and fire,roads and the legal system why shouldnt you participate in supporting it?We’ve turned big business into God like status and it’s ridiculous.