Are we about to see a more aggressive Obama?
The medium is the message, as Marshall McLuhan taught us.
With that in mind, what should we make of the fact that President Obama has requested a joint session of Congress on the evening of Sept. 7 to lay out his jobs program?
The high-profile setting, with live coverage by the networks and news channels almost guaranteed, would suggest that Obama intends to be ambitious in his proposal. A more cynical mind would also note that Obama might be treating this as the kickoff to his 2012 election campaign, using the speech to lay out a series of proposals and publicly challenge a highly unpopular Congress to adopt them.
If Obama has decided to model his campaign on Harry Truman’s 1948 successful campaign, in which “Give ‘em Hell” Harry ran hard against a do-nothing Congress, this would seem to be a great opportunity to drive that message home.
Of course, that’s not how the White House put it in the letter to House Speaker John Boehner and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid:
“It is my intention to lay out a series of bipartisan proposals that the Congress can take immediately to continue to rebuild the American economy by strengthening small business, helping Americans get back to work and putting more money in the paychecks of the middle class and working Americans, while still reducing the deficit and getting our fiscal house in order. It is our responsibility to find bipartisan solutions to help grow our economy, and if we are willing to put country before party, I am confident we can do just that.”
The timing of the speech is also interesting. As it happens, the first in a series of debates among the GOP presidential candidates, this one to be broadcast on MSNBC and held at the Reagan Library in California, is scheduled for 8 p.m. Wednesday, the exact time requested by Obama.
Imagine that. One would almost think that Obama was using his power as president to steal the spotlight from his would-be challengers and remind them that he has no intention of being upstaged.
In a press briefing this afternoon, White House spokesman Jay Carney was asked whether that was the intended message. You can guess his answer.
“No, of course not. There were a lot of considerations. Once you want to do a speech to Congress and you have to deal with congressional schedules and there are many other factors here … one debate of many that is on one channel of many was not enough reason not to have this speech at the time that we decided to have it.”
“There are many opportunities for the American people. There’s a choice they can make to watch the president, to watch the debate,” Carney said. “A network could make a decision to alter the timing of the debate by an hour.”
Or, in the immortal words of Hank Williams, “move over little dog, because the big dog’s movin’ in.”
– Jay Bookman
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946 comments Add your comment
Thulsa Doom
August 31st, 2011
3:22 pm
Paul,
I’m with you on the education. We have a rich tradition of public education and 90% of us on here con or lib got our education paid for by other taxpayers. And to be honest with you I have no problem with us as taxpayers providing a safety net. I want illegals and poor people to be be able to get urgent care when they need it and I don’t mind paying a little extra for it.
And as a humanitarian nation we provid care at the ER room for anyone who can’t afford it and we provided Medicaid for our truly poor. We do this because we are a compassionate nation. We do not do it because people have a “right” to it just because they think they do.
Bosch
August 31st, 2011
3:22 pm
“aren’t government schools paid for through property taxes”
And, what wrench does that propose in the argument?
Paul
August 31st, 2011
3:23 pm
(ir)Rational 3:19
They largely are paid by property taxes.
What I was thinking of is family A who has three kids, education costs $8k per kid, that’s $24k total (numbers for illustration only), the family owns a house and property taxes are $3k a year, so others – more expensive homes, fewer kids, are making up the difference.
Midori
August 31st, 2011
3:24 pm
Jay, I do have a question for you. Being a new blogger to your blog, what will get a person banned? I had a few bloggers talk about my manhood etc and these same folks claimed that I would get banned.
was the word “centimeter” used?
Granny Godzilla
August 31st, 2011
3:24 pm
Boehner saying “no” may be just what he’s going for…..
jm
August 31st, 2011
3:25 pm
“Bachmann: God demands attention to tea party message ”
“Obama: I demand attention to my speech”
Hard to figure out which statement has more hubris
Adam
August 31st, 2011
3:25 pm
Thulsa Doom: We do this because we are a compassionate nation.
So what does that make the people who want to reverse all of these compassionate laws?
jm
August 31st, 2011
3:26 pm
Granny 3:24 – agreed. He’ll play it up to the hilt as obstructionism, or some such BS.
But Obama’s on “mute” for most Americans now, so it won’t really matter.
Bosch
August 31st, 2011
3:28 pm
“And as a humanitarian nation we provid care at the ER room for anyone who can’t afford it and we provided Medicaid for our truly poor.”
Again, Doom, how do you measure “those who can’t afford it” — that might be important to know if you aren’t real sure and need to go the ER if you don’t have insurance.
“We do this because we are a compassionate nation. We do not do it because people have a “right” to it just because they think they do.”
Sounds to me like you are just hung up on semantics.
Adam
August 31st, 2011
3:28 pm
jm: So don’t watch his speech. Watch the Republican debate instead.
stands for decibels
August 31st, 2011
3:28 pm
There was also the cloture vote. If GOPers really felt the ACA was the worstest thing ever, they could’ve continued to block it; they didn’t.
Imhofe didn’t vote on cloture, so it came to the floor for an up or down vote.
http://politics.nytimes.com/congress/votes/111/senate/1/388
Strange, since the GOPers had managed to filibuster everything else they felt was objectionable.
Doggone/GA
August 31st, 2011
3:28 pm
AJC Headline: “Robert Downey Jr. expecting a child”
I bet his doctor was really surprised!
Bosch
August 31st, 2011
3:29 pm
“Being a new blogger to your blog”
Midori,
That’s a tell tell (or tale tale??) sign of the name changer — he makes a point to make people think he’s never been here before. He’s done it every time.
jm
August 31st, 2011
3:29 pm
In addition to Obama, it would be nice if Nouriel Roubini would shut up about everything.
Roubini isn’t a genius. If he was so good at figuring out the economy, he’d be getting rich investing off of it rather than blabbering along constantly. Another fricking Cassandra to be ignored is what he is.
Thanks to the Lottery Players in Georgia
August 31st, 2011
3:29 pm
But Obama’s on “mute” for most Americans now, so it won’t really matter.
Probably for “most” people that you associate with.
Thanks to the Lottery Players in Georgia
August 31st, 2011
3:30 pm
In addition to Obama, it would be nice if Nouriel Roubini would shut up about everything.
I thought you had control of the mute button.
Thulsa Doom
August 31st, 2011
3:30 pm
Bosch,
What “mind reading” did I do? Did you not sit there and write that cons were nuts for not believing that health care is a right and that libs believe it is a right? And did you not dispute the stats I provided on welfare recipients? All I did was explain where you were wrong statistically. I didn’t make up claims as to what you believe. I simply countered what you actually wrote. And for that matter as far as rudeness goes go back earlier and I think you will find I was quite civil to you. Its only when I got back from an appt and saw your last couple of posts to me that I realized that you were not being very civil to me in your discourse.
Bosch
August 31st, 2011
3:30 pm
Doggone,
I had the exact same thought. Too funny, huh?
(ir)Rational
August 31st, 2011
3:30 pm
I was reading the argument about “free” education as if it were being paid for with income taxes. I agree, I do subsidize your kids for going to school, and possibly, one day (no plans for it now), I’ll have a kid and be using that money for my own child’s education. I was just being argumentative for the sake of being argumentative (I’m slightly bored this afternoon).
Oh-well. Who is John Galt?
stands for decibels
August 31st, 2011
3:30 pm
Watch the Republican debate instead.
yes. Rock ribbed conservatives MUST watch MSNBC that night.
Paul
August 31st, 2011
3:31 pm
Thulsa Doom 3:32
That gets to the larger issue: what some call a ‘right’, what some see as the normal way society operates, evolves over time. With education, it was in the home, then maybe the church, then small communities got together and chipped in for a teacher for the kids of those who chipped in, then for all kids, and over a couple hundred years it evolved to what we have today.
Same with health care. Had docs who got paid in dollars or in kind, then we got this idea for insurance and it developed into ‘you get insurance depending on who you work for”. We had some people not pay much or anything depending on who they worked for (union contracts or some government workers) and we began to take care of old folks (medicare) and less fortunate (medicaid) and now we’re saying ‘this is a messed up system. Health care largely by who you work for? This doesn’t make sense” but we want to protect what we got even if others have naught.
But it’s evolving. I think your outline is a good one and the minimum we should do. I doubt we’ll get to single-payer in my lifetime but I can see a hybrid of that and supplemental policies to accommodate those who want to retain some of what they have.
And also, so you’ll still have a job!
DebbieDoRight
August 31st, 2011
3:32 pm
Doom: While there are more whites on welfare there are also about 6 1/2 times more whites as blacks so as a % of their population there are far less whites than blacks on welfare. And in the southern red states such that I mentioned it is a fact that blacks comprise a much greater % of the population than in many northeastern blue states such as Conn, Mass, for example. Hence the red state stats regarding the number of residents on welfare is skewed. And its not my opinion Bosch its a fact backed up by census data. And common sense too.
honestly doom WTF does that have to do with ANYTHING?
It is what it is, stop trying to “revise” it to fit your preconceived agenda. It’s like this:
Say Out of 1,000 applicants for welfare, 38% were white, 37% where black, etc. etc. etc.
That other stuff you brought up is just obfuscation.
Thanks to the Lottery Players in Georgia
August 31st, 2011
3:32 pm
“Bachmann: God demands attention to tea party message ”
“Obama: I demand attention to my speech”
Hard to figure out which statement has more hubris
I personally like to start by determining if the statement was actually made.
jm
August 31st, 2011
3:32 pm
Adam don’t worry. I wouldn’t bother watching Obama’s speech. R’s have pretty much already indicated his trial balloon proposals are DOA
Thanks – there’s no mute button for Roubini. That’s the problem. He’s as much a windbag as Obama.
BADA BING
August 31st, 2011
3:34 pm
OH no, obama is getting aggressive. Is he going to ‘kick ass’ finally? Is he going to go ‘all Chicago’ on our ass? Is he going to rap during his speech?
Thulsa Doom
August 31st, 2011
3:34 pm
Bosch,
No playing with semantics. There is a clear difference between believing you have a “right” to health care paid for by others and us providing health care as a compassionate nation to those who cannot afford it or who could afford it but simply choose to spend their monies on other things. I noticed you didn’t provide the example as to my “playing semantics”. You simply accused me of it. I’ll say it again. We as a nation provide ER care to those that won’t or don’t want to pay for their own health care and we provide medicaid to the truly poor because we are compassionate. But those people do not have a “right” to that care.
Mighty Righty
August 31st, 2011
3:34 pm
Just the facts: Patient Affordable Health Care Act actal vote as confirmed at below web address:
Congress: Democrats 218 Yea 34 Nay
Republican 0 Yea 178 Nay
Senate: Democrat 60 Yea
Republican 39 Nay 1 not voting
Verify the above at:
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/vote.xpd?vote=h2010-165
Jay
August 31st, 2011
3:34 pm
jm, saying no to the request would, in political terms, be going nuclear.
I will be shocked if the request is rejected.
The Iron Fist
August 31st, 2011
3:35 pm
Glad we stopped Boeing from being able to build airplanes for export and sale, and that would employ 1000’s of non-union workers. That would have been a disaster. Whew.
Bosch
August 31st, 2011
3:35 pm
Doom,
“What “mind reading” did I do?”
Translation? Bosch thinks that he has a right to make a claim on the labor of people in the medical community such as doctors, nurses, etc. in the name of having a “right” to health care. And this “right” that Bosch believes he has to guaranteed health care is to be born out and paid for by other people.
There ya have it! The difference between a con and a lib. A lib believes he has a right to make a claim on the labor of others for what he thinks he has a “right” to and to have that “right” paid for by other taxpayers. It doesn’t get any more disturbing than that.
“And did you not dispute the stats I provided on welfare recipients?”
I told you, I stopped reading after the first sentence when your arrogance got the best of you and you felt the need to suggest your intellect was somehow superior to mine.
“All I did was explain where you were wrong statistically”
Wouldn’t know, didn’t see and have no desire to go back to read it.
If you want to discuss something, then discuss it, but if you want to sit there and play like my intellectual superior, then you can do it alone.
Paul
August 31st, 2011
3:35 pm
Hi Midori!
“and these same folks claimed that I would get banned.
was the word “centimeter” used?”
I was just thinking how peaceful it was and you had to show up with your sharp pokey stick….
jm
August 31st, 2011
3:36 pm
Jay 3:34 – I suppose that could be the case. I’m not completely privy to presidential and congressional decorum. I’ll take your word for it.
If Boehner does give him the cold shoulder, will be very interesting.
Jay
August 31st, 2011
3:36 pm
Mighty, I think the point was that the individual mandate was initially a Republican idea that Obama adopted, thinking it would draw bipartisan support. The idea came out of the Heritage Foundation, was included in RomneyCare, was embraced by Gingrich, etc.
But as soon as Obama adopted it, GOP support vanished.
Adam
August 31st, 2011
3:36 pm
jm: R’s have pretty much already indicated his trial balloon proposals are DOA
Yep. Like I said, House Rs will say no to his plan no matter what it is. I still can’t wait to see the “Where’s your plan” people suddenly change their argument though.
BADA BING
August 31st, 2011
3:37 pm
midori…….Centimeters are not so bad. It is the number in front of ‘centimeter’ that is important.
DebbieDoRight
August 31st, 2011
3:37 pm
Doom: Bosch, I’m sorry but its hard to have a discussion with you when you can’t seem to fathom the simplest statistical concepts
Doom the statistics are taken NOT from the populatioin but from # of people who APPLIED for assistance, and of that number the percent thereof!! How can you lump the POPULATION into that?
USMC
August 31st, 2011
3:37 pm
Obama’s Approval Hits All-Time Low of 41 Percent Among Women
http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/gallup-obama-s-approval-hits-all-time-lo-0
Tick tock, tick tock…
Thulsa Doom
August 31st, 2011
3:37 pm
Debbiedoright,
You came in late on the conversation. Bosch made the point on a previous blog that the red states had a higher number of people receiving welfare. I simply pointed out to him that this is true but only because the stats are skewed because the red states in the south have heavy minority populations and minorities have higher percentages of their populations on welfare. And statistically that is a fact. And I didn’t bring it up Debbie so please don’t get the idea that I’m starting out on preconceived racial agendas. I was simply explaining to Bosch why his statement about red states having more welfare recipients is skewed.
DebbieDoRight
August 31st, 2011
3:39 pm
Adam @ 3:12 – good point, although I doubt if it’ll be understood.
Midori
August 31st, 2011
3:40 pm
Bosch – I’ve personally seen it a few times myself.
Lurking can be fun
Hi Paul!!!
Adam
August 31st, 2011
3:40 pm
Thulsa: Red states also have the worst divorce rates, which is one of the highest reasons for filing for bankruptcy. Assuming no income is available after all that, welfare is where you turn.
Bosch
August 31st, 2011
3:42 pm
“But those people do not have a “right” to that care”
And I disagree. I am of the opinion that our Founding Fathers made it very clear:
“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed;”
therefore, because we are all equal, we are all human, and all humans get sick, and we all have the right to life, liberty and happiness — so therefore, as citizens, we all have the right to healthcare. I do not believe that human sickness should be a for profit business in this country. And I will never believe that some people are not worthy of receiving it, simply because of what they do for a living.
AmVet - Read my lips. No new Texans!
August 31st, 2011
3:42 pm
If Perry wins the nomination, I would expect the final tally of electoral college votes to be almost exactly what it was in 2008.
365 – 173 for BHO.
No way can will another quasi-Bush win the states of Michigan, Illinois, Ohio, Pennsylvania, NY and California. Especially as his actual record and dumbfounding positions and statements become further exposed.
Romney could take a couple of those states but would still lose handily. Likely 324 – 204.
Midori
August 31st, 2011
3:42 pm
watch out guys – I think USMC is about to explode
Thanks to the Lottery Players in Georgia
August 31st, 2011
3:42 pm
You came in late on the conversation. Bosch made the point on a previous blog that the red states had a higher number of people receiving welfare. I simply pointed out to him that this is true but only because the stats are skewed because the red states in the south have heavy minority populations and minorities have higher percentages of their populations on welfare. And statistically that is a fact. And I didn’t bring it up Debbie so please don’t get the idea that I’m starting out on preconceived racial agendas. I was simply explaining to Bosch why his statement about red states having more welfare recipients is skewed.
Can you provide a link to that post from Bosch. I’m not sure I buy that line.
DebbieDoRight
August 31st, 2011
3:42 pm
I’m still on page 4, but I saw this so I’m going to answer you in “real time”.
Doom: Bosch made the point on a previous blog that the red states had a higher number of people receiving welfare. I simply pointed out to him that this is true but only because the stats are skewed because the red states in the south have heavy minority populations and minorities have higher percentages of their populations on welfare.
Doom the statistics are taken from the number of people who applied and were accepted for welfare NOT the number of people total in a population. Not every black person in a “red” state applied for welfare; same for whites.
jm
August 31st, 2011
3:43 pm
You know, its too bad Obama is messing with an MSNBC hosted debate. Those questions should be real zingers for the likes of Bachmann, Perry, among others. Given the likely inquisitors.
Disgusted
August 31st, 2011
3:44 pm
And as a humanitarian nation we provid care at the ER room for anyone who can’t afford it and we provided Medicaid for our truly poor. We do this because we are a compassionate nation. We do not do it because people have a “right” to it just because they think they do.
Aw, c’mon, Doom. Are you angling for a masters in sophistry? You know and I know that the medical caregivers don’t lose a penny on treating the poor. The only part that changes is the payer. If it’s treatment of the poor, the taxpayer picks up the bill. And the privately insured pick up the tab for it too through their premium payments. Hospitals and physicians don’t “donate” their services. They negotiate increases in reimbursements from insurers in order to make up the difference.
Do doctors see a net decrease in their paychecks when they treat the poor? Hospitals? Nurses? I don’t think so. So stop acting as though these providers are engaging in a great act of charity by treating the poor. What you are really saying is that it’s perfectly fine with you for taxpayers and insured people to keep right on picking up the tab for the uninsured.
So here’s a guy who sells insurance and is virulently opposed to Obamacare. No conflict there. Nope. And then we get the provider side of it from people like Bruno and Dusty, who also happen to be opposed to Obamacare (Dusty, BTW, openly stated on this blog a couple of years ago that she didn’t want her doctor’s office crowded with all those newly insured people, forcing her to wait longer.) No conflict there either.
Maybe you ought to invest in a dump truck to haul all that BS you spout.
jm
August 31st, 2011
3:45 pm
“Not every black person in a “red” state applied for welfare; same for whites.”
Good thing that. Otherwise we’d be looking at 100% unemployment…. oy
USMC
August 31st, 2011
3:46 pm
1,100 ‘green jobs’ gone…
http://www.mercurynews.com/bay-area-news/ci_18795739?nclick_check=1
Obama has not learned the lesson of Bill Clinton, IT’S THE ECONOMY STUPID nor will he.
He is so ‘drunk’ on the Marxist/Socialist philosophy coupled with the FACT that Obama in way over his head; INEXPERIENCED.
And Jay, you were certainly correct when you said Obama is our WORST nightmare
Obama will lose in 2012!
Mighty Righty
August 31st, 2011
3:46 pm
Granny Godzilla
August 31st, 2011
3:00 pm
Mighty Righty
Can you say Romneycare?
(GOP had nothing to do with healthcare bill….I scoff at you)
Granny, follow Romneys success and you will begin to understand that Romney an indivicual not Republicans a political party suppported the disaster now known as Obamacare. Your analogy is comparable to Al Gore Sr. being a racist makes all Democrats racists.
Jay
August 31st, 2011
3:47 pm
Thulsa, it’s true that health care is not a right enumerated in the Constitution. Of course, the Ninth Amendment makes it clear that the people retain rights NOT enumerated in the Constitution.
You yourself have implicitly agreed that people have a right to health care by accepting the necessity of treating uninsured people in the emergency room. Why not turn them away? It would be inhumane. It would violate the rights they have just by virtue of being fellow human beings.
jm
August 31st, 2011
3:47 pm
Disgusted – you are misinformed. Not completely, but partially.
Thanks to the Lottery Players in Georgia
August 31st, 2011
3:49 pm
The main thing is for President Obama to provide the Republicans with a written plan this time around and preferably one that does not extend beyond one page with a 2 inch top and bottom margin and 1.5 inch left and right margins and 16-point type in bold arial font, double-spaced, on 8.5 x 11 inch paper. Otherwise, it just will not do and will be promptly rejected as opposed to rejected at a later time.
jm
August 31st, 2011
3:49 pm
All those wonderful green jobs companies to save the future for Obama are collapsing in financial ruin right now. The solar industry is cratering.
Moral of the story (for those that haven’t figured it out yet): if you business depends on the largesse of government, eventually the tables will turn and you will lose big time. Whether you’re in defense, ethanol, solar, higher education, or health care.
getalife
August 31st, 2011
3:51 pm
It is DOA.
He is taking it to the American people again to show he listens and respects our votes.
If he goes out, go out fighting.
Thulsa Doom
August 31st, 2011
3:52 pm
“And I know a big difference in philosophies between conservatives and liberals is the idea that healthcare is a “right” vs. a “privledge.” And to me anyone who thinks that healthcare is a privledge is just simply nuts.”
Bosch,
Didn’t you write this earlier? If so then my interpretation and I think its a pretty doggone reasonable one, is that you think people have a right to healthcare provided by others.
jm
August 31st, 2011
3:53 pm
what a sec
“the Ninth Amendment makes it clear that the people retain rights NOT enumerated in the Constitution.”
So Jay, you want to list all those rights that are not enumerated in the constitution that I have?
The right to drive? The right to run someone over? The right to pollute my land? The right to “free” health care?
As for this
“You yourself have implicitly agreed that people have a right to health care by accepting the necessity of treating uninsured people in the emergency room. Why not turn them away? It would be inhumane. It would violate the rights they have just by virtue of being fellow human beings.”
I don’t entirely agree. I think a bonding system would be necessary and someone uninsured could incur health care expenses up to $10,000, backed by a lien through federal taxes. After that, you’re on your own. And if you really want to fix things, provide the incentive to buy insurance: don’t let people go to a hospital if they don’t have insurance.
Thanks to the Lottery Players in Georgia
August 31st, 2011
3:54 pm
All those wonderful green jobs companies to save the future for Obama are collapsing in financial ruin right now. The solar industry is cratering.
Really, jm.
Bosch
August 31st, 2011
3:54 pm
No, Doom, you have memory problems, and definitely projection problems. Bosch made a point to counter this one:
Thulsa Doom
August 31st, 2011
11:00 am
Bosch,
I never denied that Republicans have their own voting bloc- they are mostly called taxpayers. When I say have “skin in the game” I’m referring to the fact that everyone should have to pay taxes.
Which is suggesting that those that pay no income taxes are mostly Republican.
And this point you made earlier at 11:17 on the previous thread:
“But I would bet that the overwhelmingly number of those folks are Dem voters.”
And I suggested you might want to re-consider that because the red states tend to have more recipients. No where did I mention race. You seem to think that since a higher percentage of minority voters are Dems, and that a higher percentage of minorities are on welfare, then that MUST equate to more Dems voters are on welfare and vote to keep themselves that way? True?
It’s called false logic…and you has it.
kayaker 71
August 31st, 2011
3:55 pm
Bozo’s speech will be the same old tripe. He will propose numerous things, mainly spending more money to “create jobs”. That “green jobs” fiasco in MA spent 20 million fixing up 3 homes, providing 14 admin jobs and was a bust. Figures out to about 1.4M/job. He will propose numerous things that the Repubs cannot possibly swallow and then call them “obstructionists” for not agreeing with him. Wonder if he saved the plastic columns that he used in Berlin.
AmVet - Read my lips. No new Texans!
August 31st, 2011
3:55 pm
So eventually “the tables will turn if you’re in defense and you will lose big time”, huh, jm?
Which century do you project this end of government largesse for DoD contractors to happen in?
Just this week that bastion of military competence and vision, Dick Cheney warned not to make any cuts in defense.
Nope, no sale.
Ike was the last Republican with any sense. (And balls.)
Thulsa Doom
August 31st, 2011
3:56 pm
Jay,
As a compassionate nation I think we should treat people who can’t afford it or even if they can afford it but choose not to and show up in the ER room we should still treat them because as you pointed out it is the humane thing to do. I just don’t like the thinking that people have that they have some preordained right to health care provided to them by others and paid for by others. That’s all.
Granny Godzilla
August 31st, 2011
3:56 pm
“We’re thrilled that we now have a terrific opportunity to hear from national leaders of both major parties about the most pressing domestic issues facing the country,” NBC News and POLITICO said.
jm
August 31st, 2011
3:56 pm
Doom 3:52 – Bosch is the king of the “I didn’t say that” dance. Libs love to say something but not actually back it up.
Bosch
August 31st, 2011
3:56 pm
Doom @ 3:52
I explained my beliefs on health care in a previous post. If you have questions about those, I’ll be glad to address them.
Bosch
August 31st, 2011
3:58 pm
You yourself have implicitly agreed that people have a right to health care by accepting the necessity of treating uninsured people in the emergency room. Why not turn them away? It would be inhumane. It would violate the rights they have just by virtue of being fellow human beings.
Jay said it better than I Doom, but that’s what I mean by the fact you seem to be hung on semantics.
Mighty Righty
August 31st, 2011
3:58 pm
Bosch-I guess you realize that you are quoting the Declaration of Independence not the Constitution. Regardless, our founders did not include free health care as a right and further had they so thought people would have had free health care from day one. Not so. Heck, no one in this country thought health care should be an entitlement until we started electing socialist marxist nazis to public office.
Granny Godzilla
August 31st, 2011
3:59 pm
Might Righty
Your thinking that there was no GOP input into the healthcare is just plain wrong.
Mince, Parse, Evade, Project, whatever.
You are completely welcome to waste your time parroting that which simply not true.
kayaker 71
August 31st, 2011
3:59 pm
Also, it appears that 4 different solar companies declared bankruptcy in the last few months. Seems that one of them, also in MA, was subsidized with stimulus money to help compete with the Chi Coms. Also seems that they were subsidized heavily because the principles in the company were aligned with Bozo campaign donors. The main reason they stated for going out of business?……. too many restrictive government regulations.
jm
August 31st, 2011
4:00 pm
Thanks 3:54 – yep. Solar Green Job dreams dying because they never had a real life. You can fake an industry for a while, but not forever.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-08-29/solar-purge-drives-weakest-into-bankruptcy-buyouts-with-more-deals-coming.html
Breaking News: Solyndra Closes Its Doors, Sends Home 900+ Employees
http://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/solyndra/
SpectraWatt Sequel: After Collapsing, Company Declares Bankruptcy
http://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/spectrawatt-sequel-after-collapsing-company-declares-bankruptcy/
Paulo977
August 31st, 2011
4:00 pm
USMC
August 31st, 2011
3:37 pm
Obama’s Approval Hits All-Time Low of 41 Percent Among Women
You believe that?Ha
jm
August 31st, 2011
4:00 pm
Jay, what algorithm triggered my 4:00pm post?
Normal
August 31st, 2011
4:01 pm
“Much as I dislike nicknames for political leaders, I can see “Give’em Hell, Barry” in our future.”
Paul,
I sure as hell hope so.
Sarah
August 31st, 2011
4:02 pm
He’s pullin’ a Palin.
A Musing Native
August 31st, 2011
4:02 pm
I think if a company were to, for example, sell tainted peanut butter, the sickened people should have a right to healthcare at the expense of others, specifically the others that made em sick to begin with. Same goes for polluted water and air and so on. It’s a whole nuther story though if these people knowingly ingested all sorts of harmful bacteria and stuff and got sick from it. Of course, I think it would be even better if others would not put profits before the good of the people and try harder to avoid killin off their customer base for the sake of a dollar. Of course that’s just me and I don’t rightly expect those laissez faire types or others of a similar mindset to agree with me.
jm
August 31st, 2011
4:02 pm
Amvet 3:55 – well, frankly, starting about now Defense is going to get put through a squeeze
Of course, we’ll still be spending probably 3x more than China…. (not accounting for cost differentials)
Bosch
August 31st, 2011
4:02 pm
“I just don’t like the thinking that people have that they have some preordained right to health care provided to them by others and paid for by others. That’s all.”
Okay, Doom, say you lose your job, and you spend all your money on stuff, then out of the blue, the police come and arrest you for a crime you say you didn’t commit.
Do you have a right to a lawyer? Don’t you have a right to due process? Isn’t that too a right that is provided to you because you are a citizen which others (taxpayers) are paying for and others are providing to you as a service?
Please be consistent in your poutrages.
jm
August 31st, 2011
4:03 pm
Thanks 3:54 – yep. Solar Green Job dreams dying because they never had a real life. You can fake an industry for a while, but not forever.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-08-29/solar-purge-drives-weakest-into-bankruptcy-buyouts-with-more-deals-coming.html
Breaking News: Solyndra Closes Its Doors, Sends Home 900+ Employees
http://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/solyndra/
jm
August 31st, 2011
4:03 pm
Thanks
SpectraWatt Sequel: After Collapsing, Company Declares Bankruptcy
http://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/spectrawatt-sequel-after-collapsing-company-declares-bankruptcy/
Thulsa Doom
August 31st, 2011
4:03 pm
And I suggested you might want to re-consider that because the red states tend to have more recipients. No where did I mention race.
It’s called false logic…and you has it.- Bosch
Bosch,
Perhaps it is false logic. But its true nonetheless. What you are stating that I “seem to think” is true whether the conclusion as to how I reached it is fallacious or not. Just because you don’t like it being true does not make it so. But are you going to sit there with a straight face and tell me that the overwhelming majority of the black population does not vote Democratic? Really?
And you did not have to mention race. I was simply pointing out to you why several of the red states have a higher number of people receiving welfare. That’s all. Just because you didn’t bring it up doesn’t mean I can’t then proceed to explain to you why things are the way they are. And if a higher % of Dems are minority voters and a higher % of minority voters are on welfare then so be it. It is what it is.
A Musing Native
August 31st, 2011
4:04 pm
Jay, what algorithm triggered my 4:00pm post?
Jay has the power to force people to post against their will.
Bosch
August 31st, 2011
4:04 pm
“I guess you realize that you are quoting the Declaration of Independence not the Constitution.”
Yes MR, I do, as was written by our Founding Fathers, and shows their ideas of what we had the right to as citizens of this country.
Talking Head
August 31st, 2011
4:05 pm
“Okay, Doom, say you lose your job, and you spend all your money on stuff, then out of the blue, the police come and arrest you for a crime you say you didn’t commit.”
Out of the blue….equals fantasy
Thulsa Doom
August 31st, 2011
4:06 pm
Jm,
Oh lordy. What is that? The 3rd solar panel job going belly up and or taking their jobs to China? Such is the continuing offshoring off jobs under Obama. Just ask his pal GE ceo Jeff Immelt about offshoring. You know. The guy who is the chair of Obama’s jobs council whose company has offshored 30,000 jobs to China in the past decade.
Thanks to the Lottery Players in Georgia
August 31st, 2011
4:06 pm
jm,
Thanks for that information on those companies. I can see now why you would think that the entire industry is collapsing.
Tom Middleton
August 31st, 2011
4:06 pm
Yes, and it’s a good thing, Jay, for he can be both a centrist and on-point advocate through a willingness to compromise on occasion.
But I’m sure there will be non-negotiables with him, as there should be against any opposition party caring only for the wealthiest 3% and die-hard racists.
The Dems are the ones with heart and soul, Jay – both their formidable strength and their weakness when it comes to walking away from negotiations. The Republicans, obviously, not so much
DebbieDoRight
August 31st, 2011
4:07 pm
MR: Regardless, our founders did not include free health care as a right and further had they so thought people would have had free health care from day one.
That argument is old and tired MR. The FF’s also didn’t say anything about freeing the slaves although they did mention that All Men Are Created Equal. The constitution is a living, breathing, flexible document which was created as such and intended to stay that way.
The FF’s had no concept of the things that would come about in 200 years, (do you think they pictured Air Travel and automobiles?); and knowing this they didn’t make the constitution as a whole, ironclad; although parts of it ARE ironclad but not the entire document.
Not so. Heck, no one in this country thought health care should be an entitlement until we started electing socialist marxist nazis to public office
Oh grow up already.
Bosch
August 31st, 2011
4:07 pm
“Perhaps it is false logic. But its true nonetheless.”
Wow, Doom, so are all “truths” to you possible falsities?
Weird.
“Just because you don’t like it being true does not make it so.”
And Doom, just because you WANT it to be true does not make it so either.
jm
August 31st, 2011
4:07 pm
“shows their ideas of what we had the right to”
Yeah, note that “pursuit” of happiness. You’re not guaranteed happiness, just the attempt to pursue it. Ie, you’re on your own but we won’t hold you back.
Or at least, that used to be the story. Now its “don’t do this don’t do that, pay me this pay me that, you have to do this you have to do that”. Its pretty disgusting frankly.
Thanks to the Lottery Players in Georgia
August 31st, 2011
4:08 pm
jm,
did you hear the bad news about the cathode ray tube industry.
kayaker 71
August 31st, 2011
4:08 pm
Bozo better get tough. Rasmussen today….. only 19% of the electorate strongly approve of Bozo…… 45% strongly disapprove. His lowest numbers ever. A generic republican is said to be ahead of Bozo by a whopping 8 percentage points. 25% of Democrats polled feel that they would like to see another candidate run in 2012. 79% of the electorate states that we are on the wrong track. Only 29% of the electorate feel that Bozo is ahead of the game on the economic front.
Looks like this is going to be a desperation speech on the 7th of September. Something is not working.
Bosch
August 31st, 2011
4:09 pm
“Out of the blue….equals fantasy”
No, Talking Head, that analogy is for Doom to illustrate that we do have rights in this country provided by the taxpayers which others provide the services for.
jm
August 31st, 2011
4:09 pm
Thanks – it won’t disappear. But it will be a lot smaller for a while I believe.
Misty Fyed
August 31st, 2011
4:09 pm
Not an Obama fan at all but I hope he is about to get aggressive and I hope he comes out with new and productive ideas. Green and shovel ready infrastructure jobs just didn’t seem to do the trick.. Maybe I should send him some of my ideas….
Either lower the minimum wage or put some sort of tariff in place so we can bring back some manufacturing and compete with these countries that have no such minimum wage ( I know the price of goods will go up)
Convince the boneheaded Republicans that under no circumstances are we ever going to mass deport however many illegal aliens we have. Seal the borders as much as possible and put a plan into place where the people here can come out of the shadows and buy homes, start businesses, and pay taxes.
Create a near future plan that gives corporations some comfort that no new regulation is going to zap their profits, or new feel good plan is going to trash their long range planning. Give them confidence so they can free up their money and start expanding.
There. you go.
Mighty Righty
August 31st, 2011
4:09 pm
Granny, I now know why you are working three jobs.
Mr. Snarky
August 31st, 2011
4:09 pm
I’m just glad we have Zap around to tell us how it is. I was confused and now everything is clear.
jm
August 31st, 2011
4:10 pm
Thanks – that’s so yesterday’s news
Thulsa Doom
August 31st, 2011
4:11 pm
“Okay, Doom, say you lose your job, and you spend all your money on stuff, then out of the blue, the police come and arrest you for a crime you say you didn’t commit.”- Bosch
Bosch,
Oh my dear God. You have been reduced to making up crazy hypotheticals? First of all I’m self employed so I can’t fire myself. Secondly, I’m conservative with my money and I save a great deal of money for retirement and emergencies as most responsibile people would do, and thirdly I don’t do anything that would get me in trouble with the police. Oh my God. I can’t believe you can’t do any better than this crazy hypothetical. I really can’t. Bosch you have absolutely floored me with this one.
Bosch
August 31st, 2011
4:11 pm
jm,
It’s hard to pursue happiness when you are dead because you couldn’t afford to go to a doctor for your pneumonia.