Transit investment a necessity for metro Atlanta

55 percent of the Atlanta region’s proposed transportation sales tax would be used to support mass transit, a fact that has generated considerable grumbling in some quarters.

In a sane world, the grumbling ’round these parts would be on account of 55% being not nearly high enough.

Name a major metropolitan region anywhere in the industrialized world that has not made or is not making a major investment in transit.

But we don’t live in a sane world, and I already can hear the variations on the brilliant “But Jay, American Exceptionalism. And stuff!” argument so often provided in response to such challenges.

• Link
• Report this comment

of course Atlanta rail isn’t used more – it was never funded enough to be where people wanted to go!

in a nutshell, US…………

• Link
• Report this comment

Atlanta rail would be used more if the riders were not afraid of being mugged.

• Link
• Report this comment

Wow. Liberals are stuborn. We aren’t using it now, so lets tax the crap out of everybody in an economy that is hurting just about everyone to spend more money on a syatem that simply doesn’t need to be expanded, but our highways are packed to the gills.

TO THE BANDWAGON!!!

• Link
• Report this comment

Good luck getting Cobb county voters to support this. We’re stuck with failures like the Cobb County commissioners who recently CUT the bus service so that they could funnel more money to their cronies in the road building industry. Crooks!

• Link
• Report this comment

We aren’t using it now, so lets tax the crap out of everybody in an economy that is hurting just about everyone to spend more money on a syatem that simply doesn’t need to be expanded, but our highways are packed to the gills.

So many things wrong in one sentence. Dissecting this mess:

We aren’t using it now

…and poll after poll shows that if it had a wider range, people further out would gladly use it.

so lets tax the crap out of everybody in an economy that is hurting just about everyone

Unemployment amongst those whose normal salary is in the $100K+ range is about 2%. This recession is not hurting “just about everyone”, but it is hurting those without an education.

to spend more money on a syatem that simply doesn’t need to be expanded

Again, back to those polls that show that people further outside the perimeter would love for it to be expanded out to them so that they can get out of their cars and have a relaxing commute.

but our highways are packed to the gills.

So more highways — which also have high cost and require taxpayer subsidy to continue to operate — is somehow the only answer you got? Considering everything else in your nonsense, it’s not surprising that you got to this conclusion.

• Link
• Report this comment

The future I fear is the one that spends less and less on education to fund projects that few people want.

Ok, at least this is a reasonable concern. However, roads cost, trains cost. Everything has a cost. And it’s not an either-or unless your state politicians decide that that’s the trade-off they want to give you. We — as a state and as a nation — are capable of doing more than one thing at a time… if we choose to.

• Link
• Report this comment

According to our esteemed armchair sociologists here, based on his bigoted inference about certain elements of society, Jack must be a Democrat.

LOL.

Hope he and his neighbors enjoy their grinding, gridlocked commute everyday.

• Link
• Report this comment

ByteMe

“People” will? How many people? So people making over $100,000 have jobs. Wow. Really? I thopught they were getting that kind of money out of the tree in their backyard. But lets go with that. Of the people making that kind of money, how many ride the bus? A few ride the train, if they can get to their job at the other end without having to spend hours of that $100,000 a year time. And that’s the problem. Mass transit works in incredibly densely populated areas, which Atlanta ain’t.

Let’s fix the problem and wait a few year on windmill powered cars and other pie in the sky nonsense.

• Link
• Report this comment

GLL – You’re stuck on that bridge to the 19th century.

Gotta go put food on my family.

Later all………

• Link
• Report this comment

Chris, you’re right on the money. Good luck getting Gwinnett county voters to support this nonsense too. One need not look very far to find the level of corruption surrounding the Gwinnett BOC, GCPS, and the sweetheart land deals. All of these whiners and complainers of traffic? MOVE! Pack up your belongings, and move within a closer proximity of where you work and quit trying to get the rest of the general population to subsidize your need/desire to commute from point A to point B on a crowded path. It was your decision to live here and work there or vice versa. Actions have consequences. Deal with it!

• Link
• Report this comment

ByteMe

Stuck in the 19th cenrtury? Actually mass transit worked pretty well in the 19th century. Now, not so much.

• Link
• Report this comment

I agree with you Jay that we definitely need to expand the rail line, BUT let’s get some COMPETENT (non-racially political) people involved. Diversity doesn’t just mean black.

When I lived in LA, I was shocked that you could see rail lines covered up on all of the streets. Evidently the Auto/Tire lobby had the city rid itself of streetcars and rail lines. What a shameful waste. You could ride the streetcar from Downtown LA to Santa Monica(Beach city) via streetcar back in the day.

I also don’t here you ever mention the WASTED project for a streetcar down Auburn Ave from downtown to the MLK center. Is that really the best use of a streetcar for Atlanta?? What about putting the streetcar down the main artery of Atlanta; Peachtree Road from Buckhead to Downtown??
I am sure you won’t mention it because it goes against your Leftwing-Socialist/Marxist political and philosophical training
By the way, I was down at the Yacht Club the other night looking for the Inman Park, Bookman Blog crowd; ready to buy a few Sweetwater 420’s.

• Link
• Report this comment

Why not have a voluntary MARTA fund? You libs can pay $50 per ride, 1-way. Use that $ to expand.

“I’d prefer not to use transit because I don’t want to ride with “those people”

Not sure what this means because every commercial that I see involving public transit always shows it packed with white folk. (And only white males break into homes in EVERY home security commercial)

• Link
• Report this comment

Midori

Still putting food on your family.. I think I have found your problem.

• Link
• Report this comment

Why is it that anytime I mention $weetw@ter 420 (like @7:57am), my comment gets flagged for moderation?
I thought that was your beer Bookman.

• Link
• Report this comment

GLL thanks for proving my point for me with your 7:54. Curious…what is it we “consistently vote for”?

• Link
• Report this comment

Not enough for roads and heavy North of I-20. Another shinning example of two Georgias. I hope it fails.

• Link
• Report this comment

But the budget! We need cuts! Spending cuts and tax cuts! It’s the only wayyyyyyy! (whine)

• Link
• Report this comment

Judging by the comments, it would appear are the liberals are telecommuting, already at work or texting from their smart phones whilst using mass transit.

The lazy, unemployed conservative posters must be on their way to work, stuck in the gridlock.

• Link
• Report this comment

“Why is it that anytime I mention $weetw@ter 420 (like @7:57am), my comment gets flagged for moderation”

Because it as “tw@t” in the middle of it.

• Link
• Report this comment

I say you’re both right

We need transit and new toll lanes that are additional capacity

• Link
• Report this comment

While we are talking about race, Democrats:

MARTA: The perfect cause for Democrats.

Democrats to poor mostly Black people in Atlanta: We’re taking care of you. We give you those big old buses with those nice plastic seats so you can come out to Buckhead and clean our houses. So tell me Democrats. Are the buses all you deem that Black people need? I would think that if you walked on board any bus in Atlanta and ask who would rather be driving, you might see a few hands going up. This self rightousness is sickening. If you really want to help poor people, stop declaring war on private industry and try to bring real jobs back in the city. Let people have the resources to decide for themselves whether they want to ride the bus.

• Link
• Report this comment

“I do like that beer, USMC. There’s a certain four-letter combination that begins after SWEE that the automated bluenose doesn’t appreciate.”–Jay

Thanks Jay, I was starting to get a little defensive for my favorite brew

• Link
• Report this comment

Everyone who denies that argues transit is underused because it doesn’t go enough places undermines their credibility

The fact is transit in ine form or another goes most places in Atlanta

People choose not to use it because it is less efficient

One can still argue that transit CAN be a smart investment, but I is not a fait accompli

• Link
• Report this comment

mass transit isnt a bad idea.. just getting ppl to use it is a different story all together. living in LA for a few years and working downtown i had the option of using it, i still drove my car.. (did carpool with another) problem for me was time.. a couple of my office mates had to leave an hour before i did just to catch a series of buses to get to the office and typically got home well after i did.

• Link
• Report this comment

Midori: Gotta go put food on my family.

o.O

• Link
• Report this comment

May I also say: the windbags in the GA legislature need to raise the gas tax to pay for more and better roads

• Link
• Report this comment

Well no one wants to hear this but GLL is right — most people riding the bus WOULD like to be driving….however, there’s this thing called “can’t afford” that’s probably getting in their way.

GLL probably hasn’t heard of “can’t affordD” because he/she lives in an alternate reality that’s far removed from the every day bus rider, so he/she just couldn’t understand that cars’ upkeep, insurance, etc. costs money. And although many would like to have a car, that old “can’t afford” screws them every time.

But other than that GLL had it right on the nose.

• Link
• Report this comment

Has anyone bothered to point out that the correlation between poor and not poor has very little to do with race?

• Link
• Report this comment

This makes me think of that great Rachel Maddow commercial for MSNBC…she’s standing in front of the Hoover Damn talking about what America has been able to in the past.

A top tier transit system in the Atlanta Metroplex would be an achievement we could all point to with pride and an investment in our future.

I for one think there is no better investment than the United States of America.

• Link
• Report this comment

“There’s a certain four-letter combination that begins after SWEE that the automated bluenose doesn’t appreciate.”

the bot is delicate and swoons easily

• Link
• Report this comment

Granny: I for one think there is no better investment than the United States of America.

You think America is Exceptional? Wow! I guess everyone was wrong to call you a lib. Because libs don’t think that…. or something.

• Link
• Report this comment

I don’t understand…it’s the government’s job to provide me with transportation!

• Link
• Report this comment

“Has anyone bothered to point out that the correlation between poor and not poor has very little to do with race?”–ADAM

That’s an interesting statement, Adam.
Do you have statistics to back your statement up for the metro Atlanta area.
(not trying to be snarky, just curious)

• Link
• Report this comment

johnnyreb

if you look at Ms. Maddow and think she looks like a boy – you sir have some serious gender issues….and i would hope you stay away from boys…

• Link
• Report this comment

Jay one can hope you’re right

But it is also possible, rather likely actually, that most of Atlanta is just too low density to support transit

It’s a city planning problem, and density can’t be changed except over a very long horizon, and the very long arm of the law has made otherwise organic growth and densification impossible

Witness Wayne masons attempt to put high rise condos on the beltline

U can’t have suburbs and transit, they are incompatible

And government and outspoken minorities are too rigid too fix this

• Link
• Report this comment

Mass transit is a product that is only remotely attractive during the time frame called rush hour.

At all other times, your private transit will always be faster, and simpler.

And no matter now much you spend, you cannot overcome the efficiency of the direct routes you can take compared to the routes mass transit will take.

Fulton County has had MARTA since inception. Let’s see you mass transit fans take a bus from Palmetto to Johns Creek, and tell us about your experience. That should take about 4 hours of your day, one way.

And that is just in one county.

• Link
• Report this comment

Who brought up race GLL? Um, why that would be YOU!

• Link
• Report this comment

Jm: U can’t have suburbs and transit, they are incompatible

……..

• Link
• Report this comment

Someone go tell Ansley Park their whole neighborhood is going to be upzoned to mixed use commercial and multifamily in order to provide enough ridership to support the beltline and see what happens.

Hoooheeee

• Link
• Report this comment

U can’t have suburbs and transit, they are incompatible

And government and outspoken minorities are too rigid too fix this

Yes sir, more of those amazing “special” people! Gotta love ‘em!

• Link
• Report this comment

Jay 8:46 I’m not talking about wanting

I’m talking about ridership, such that transit isn’t a complete boondoggle.

• Link
• Report this comment

Johnny Reb: That “boy” has more brains than 20 of you!

When conducting focus groups on transit in Atlanta, what do you think was the major reason for its usage? Didn’t own a car? No. Saves Money ? No. 2. and the No 1 reason…..Stress relief! Person after person agreed that they could use that time during travel more productively (read, work, browse the web, sleep…) than clutching or strangling their steering wheell. Duration of travel was an issue for some (alledgedly longer for transit) but they saw the backup of cars as they passed them in the HOV lane!The productive time outweighed the longer duration. And they arrived at their destination relaxed, not a ball of nerves!

• Link
• Report this comment

Mine’s a No vote on the tax. A new control tower and runway improvements and lights at McCollum Field in Cobb County will do nothing for traffic.

There’s the REAL argument. Taxes are BAD (whine)

• Link
• Report this comment

jm – yeah. you’re right. our lives (and the costs thereof) are EXACTLY like they were in 1950.

• Link
• Report this comment

I can only attest to C-Tran here in Clayton County. When it was pulled, less than 100 people showed up to protest its demise.

My daughter, travelling to her internship, gave it a try. Said the inconvenience (hurry up to wait) was more than she wanted to deal with. Prefers driving herself.

I’ve used it twice, but then I wasn’t in a hurry to get into the city….never am. Elbows and a$$holes ain’t my thang. I’m too close here in Clayton County. Heading further south as soon as we’re able.

Goodbye city/burb, helloooooo country livin’.

• Link
• Report this comment

I do miss commuting….Used to do a 60 mile commute on the Burlington Northern into downtown Chicago.

Drink some coffee, read the paper, catch a few more zzzzz…..and on the way home maybe a stop in the bar car.

There were groups that played bridge all the way in, ladies doing their make-up and kids studying.

You knew your conductor and the folks who sat in your car. You were warm and dry in the rain and cool and comfortable in the heat.

No stress, no mess. Much better than expressway travel indeed.

• Link
• Report this comment

Jay @ 0838…Well said, and BRAVO!

• Link
• Report this comment

Its usual that a city such as ours who has great weather,an enormous population, a huge suburban sprawl, and horrible air quality would not be 110 % behind a mass transit tax; personally, I am (have been) sick of sitting in traffic, digesting flumes, and pulling what hair I have left on my head because I leave TWO hours early just to (hopefully) make it twenty miles down the road in time for work, or any other function. Let’s face it, I am about to anger some of you, but this is yet another example of why so many consider us the cesspool region of the nation. Too many CONFEDERATE Conservatives (There is a difference between Confederate Conservatives and General Conservatives) still living in backwood areas only minutes from a changing region in a very diverse city.

Overall, I boldly will say that this is where our problem has lied for the last thirty years, back in the seventies, Atlanta should have been had a lot of the mass transit issues address, but instead, we were too busy discussing non-sense… I work in Gwinnett (Lawrenceville Area) and travel from Dekalb and I ask myself every morning WHY do so many people pout, scream, and mutter everyday on the way to work but will refuse public transportation year end and year out?

Ha! I will tell you why, it’s the same reason why the long time residents here didn’t want it years ago, they didn’t want it to lead to crime in their neighborhoods… but guess what… several neighborhoods in these parts ended up changing anyway… home invasions, murders, petty thefts, you name it… its here, just like everywhere around the metro area now.

Time to wake up Atlanta, speaking mainly to the people in the deep surburban and outskirt areas, the 60’s are over and they are not coming back, time to extend your arms to ‘good’ people that may not look. sound, and act like you… Mass transit is the only way to keep this city afloat, with all of the transplants and need for constant road construction, this city will bury itself without something more than car dealerships on every corner. Wake up my city, wake up America, and wake up World!!!!! And yes, I am a Conservative by the way…..

• Link
• Report this comment

“They’re planning to build pokey light rail which is less expensive but useless to a suburban commuter”

why is light rail “useless” to the commuter? London, Philly, DC (to an extent) and NY use a mix of light rail + subway and it works a TREAT (some rail has its own wifi so you can work while you ride)

• Link
• Report this comment

Jay, I’m afraid I’m going to have to vote against this one. People have shown that they’re simply not interested in mass transit. Look at MARTA: an expensive money-pit that is becoming too costly for it’s customers.

Just the other day, I was reading about constructing a high-speed rail line between Chattanooga and Atlanta.

While this may sound like a good idea, one has to ask: how many people actually want to go from Atlanta to Chattanooga and vice versa, how much would it cost to use this rail compared to just driving there, and how much faster would it be than just driving there?

The same analysis holds true for high-speed rail between major cities: how much does it cost relative to just flying there, how much longer would it take via rail than flying, and how many people would rather travel by rail than by plane?

If we were to build a transit system, where would the tracks go?

• Link
• Report this comment

JohnnyReb

August 30th, 2011
8:57 am

That’s disappointing. I would have thought that you like to explore both sides of an issue. Rachel Maddow IS a wonderfully bright individual and has a great gift of communicating truth. That she also has made no bones about her sexual preference is just the icing on the cake. There need to be more commentators like her.

• Link
• Report this comment

jm – “I was saying that the calculation changed for good reason. And on that point you’re only 1/2 right”

so, you’re saying that I DIDN’T say the calculation changed, Mr. Reading-is-Fundamental?? you might want to go back downstairs and reread what I actually SAID rather than go by what the voices in your head tell you I said.

• Link
• Report this comment

Stress relief ha! – what is more fun than sitting for hours in a hot car in thick traffic just so you can drive 15 miles in 75 minutes? Remember when the ice storm hit atlanta in january? Remember all those trucks and cars stuck on 285? How can you take that kind of JOY from your daily commute all in the name of stress relief?

Without stress, no one would need psychoanalysis, alcohol or baseball to put them in a neurological coma — then the psycho people would be out of business and they’d take the Braves outta Atlanta. Is that what you want? Are you happy now?

• Link
• Report this comment

Hello Bosch – Granny brought up the Maddow piece where she is in front of the Hoover Dam. I think it was actually a different piece where when I first saw it I was trying to figure out who is that guy? Then it dawned on me, that’s Maddow. Yea, she at first glance looked like a boy. Why she would want to look like that on Natl TV is beyond me.

Yes, you are correct. Wrong thinking can be interpreted to be I don’t agree with what she says. I don’t agree with any on the Obama network (MSNBC).

• Link
• Report this comment

Yeah, I think that one has been beaten to death as the usual knee-jerk drivel response.
I guess you don’t have the statistics for the Metro Atlanta area.

You know what’d be great? If YOU look up the info and informed that Adam guy about it! Wouldn’t that be cool?

• Link
• Report this comment

Usinuk if you think the calculation hasn’t changed over the last 80 years, then wow, just wow, u really r clueless and I can’t help u

As far as transit, yeah of course they do.

But the LIRR doesn’t fo a pokey top speed of 25 mph

• Link
• Report this comment

tell that to the folks who live in suburban Maryland and DC

tell that to the folks who live outside of NY

but UnU, those places are–what was GLL’s phrase?–”incredibly densely populated”.

Which is Southren for “I actually enjoy having to drive my half-ton pickemup five miles to go to the bathroom. It’s great, really, it is.”

• Link
• Report this comment

Billions in taxes for mass transit? No way. A small % of people would ride mass transit from other suburbs. If developers want to build subways, trams, trains—then raise capital from private investors and charge a price that will provide a return on investment. Don’t seize money from taxpayers that will never use the system. The government gravy train is over. Taxes are too high.

• Link
• Report this comment

I’m also glad you brought up the GRTA buses. The state Legislature subsidizes express bus service from the suburbs into the city with no controversy, yet it refuses to subsidize MARTA. What’s that about I wonder?

I’m not saying it’s fair. But it does have something to do with cost. Marta subsidies are several hundred million every year. Those buses cost grta a pittance in comparison

• Link
• Report this comment

No Taxes – “The government gravy train is over. Taxes are too high.”

Jay, for a future article, could you do a study as to how vehemently people opposed taxes prior to the current batch of mouthpieces coming on television and screaming to the masses that they were being taxed too much? It seems like it was pretty much accepted albeit grudgingly that taxes were and are a necessary evil in order for the country to function. However, it seem like just in the last few years we’ve been inundated with the NO TAXES mantra. Maybe it’s just me.

• Link
• Report this comment

“Why she would want to look like that on Natl TV is beyond me.”

Because she iscomfortable in her own skin and does not need to “beat her chest” and insult others that she disagrees with. Its called intelect!

• Link
• Report this comment

Jay:

Two questions.

1) Can you please tell me which post(s) got Fred banned for the week?

2) If you are born by C-Section, as you disqualified to run for President? You know, not a “natural born” citizen?

• Link
• Report this comment

Billions in taxes for defense? No way. Not that many people are in the army!

Billions of taxes for education? No way. My kids are grown now!

Billions of taxes for fire and police protection? No way. I live in a gated community!

Billions of taxes for environmental protection? No way. I don’t breathe the same air or drink the same water as all you little people!

Billions of taxes to provide a safety net for the poor and elderly? No way. Let them just eat out of garbage cans and die already!

Billions of taxes for roads? No way. I levitate to get where I’m going!

• Link
• Report this comment

P.S.

“Are Are U.S. Sen. Marco Rubio of Florida and Louisiana Gov. Bobby Jindal natural-born citizens of the United States, and thus eligible for the presidency?”

• Link
• Report this comment

Fair enough.

• Link
• Report this comment

Gordon: Perhaps you could ask the countries of Europe to answer that one.

• Link
• Report this comment

Adam 9:16 Wrong metric

The metric transit planners us is density, not total population

And on the density list, Atlanta doesn’t even make it on the list of top 25 densest cities

• Link
• Report this comment

Imagine this.Private concerns in business for profit.
Never happen in the A.—————————-
In Hong Kong?…………….you betcha————–

The public light bus (PLB) was introduced in 1969 with a view to regulating the illegal operation of minibuses at the time. The total number of PLB’s has been restricted to 4350 since 1976. The limit is reviewed every 5 years and was expected to be extended for a further 5-year period from June 2011 following consultation between the Transport Department and the PLB trade. At the end of 2010 there were 4348 licenced public light buses (PLB’s). Daily patronage is about 1.8 million passenger trips. The seating capacity was originally 14 but was increased to 16 in 1988. In 1972 the government introduced the PLB scheduled service (ie Green Minibus or “GMB”) as against the “Red Minibus” (RMB) which has no scheduled route and can adjust services and fares to suit demand. Green Minibus routes, schedules and fares are controlled by the Transport Department. PLB’s also less commonly referred to as “Maxicabs”. PLB’s serve most areas of Hong Kong Island, Kowloon and the New Territories with just a few restrictions to areas of operation. In October 2008 one operator with a fleet of over 300 minibuses won permission to seek a judicial review of the current government restriction on number of buses and number of seats and this is still pending.

• Link
• Report this comment

If transit is so important, MAKE IT PAY IT’S OWN WAY! DO NOT CONTINUE THE ABSURD MARTA TYPE TAX FOR OPERATING THE SYSTEM! IF YOU WANT SOME SMALL TAX FROM THE GENERAL PUBLIC TO MAINTAIN FACILITIES, FINE! BUT, NO TAX MONEY TO KEEP PAYING FOR MONEY LOSING OPERATIONS JUST SO YOU CAN GIVE REDUCED-SUBSIDIZED FARES TO ENTICE RIDERS! It is bad enough the the government uses tax money to subsidize things like electric cars-solar energy-wind energy, etc.! If these things cannot be self funding, close them down, including marta!

• Link
• Report this comment

Anyone remember the 1996 Olympics when we were asked to utilize public transportation while the games were in progress? Imagine that, only with more destinations and a more efficient rail system. Tell you what, you can dream about it tonight while sitting in your car on any of the major interstate systems. Trust me, you’ll have PLENTY of time.

• Link
• Report this comment

5.8231511254019292604501607717042: “Are Are U.S. Sen. Marco Rubio of Florida and Louisiana Gov. Bobby Jindal natural-born citizens of the United States, and thus eligible for the presidency?”

OH NOW I GET IT! It’s not that people who are anti-Obama and think he wasn’t born here are racist, it’s just that he’s a Democrat!

You have Marco Rubio, Allen West, Bobby Jindal…. who has a plantation now?

• Link
• Report this comment

………….. so, if you have two close relatives living in the country illegally should you recuse yourself from any decisions involving illegal immigrants?

• Link
• Report this comment

zeke: It is bad enough the the government uses tax money to subsidize things like oil and gas, etc

FYT

• Link
• Report this comment

Adam:

I say if the shoe fits wear it ……………… regardless of party.

• Link
• Report this comment

Rick James,

Every time you ask a wingnut to back up their accusations of the scores of people who get mugged, beaten, and robbed on MARTA, there are the sounds of crickets.

• Link
• Report this comment

Jay——————don’t forget the salient phrase————–” under prudent commercial principles, “.
.
That’s called profit……………………..for those that consider the word profit as a sin.

• Link
• Report this comment

As the spokesman for MARTA, I’ve been reading Jay’s excellent post, and his readers’ comments, with great interest. I’d like to hear more from those of you who oppose transit and invite you to contact me directly at lvharris@itsmarta.com. Your criticisms of transit, in general, and of MARTA, in particular, deserve a serious response at a time when our region is facing critical decisions about our future. I’d like enlarge this discussion in hopes of getting past some of the delusional fictions about transit and instead deal with the facts of why MARTA matters to you, even if you NEVER ride it. Thanks.

• Link
• Report this comment

“The MTR Corporation was established in 1975 as the Mass Transit Railway Corporation with a mission to construct and operate, under prudent commercial principles, an urban metro system to help meet Hong Kong’s public transport requirements. The sole shareholder was the Hong Kong Government.”

A government funded group masquerading as a private sector company!!!

• Link
• Report this comment

I think the current strategy is working fine: Don’t fix the plumbing, have the worst public schools, let the congestion fester, keep the crime rate high – all in an effort to drive growth outside the perimeter. Atlanta is really not that great of a city folks, nothing particularly striking, historic, or beautiful about it. It’s too hot in the summer and too tense the rest of the year. Better mass transit will not improve much.

• Link
• Report this comment

Jay – “Does the street outside Zeke’s home pay its own way? ”

apparently Zeke lives in the “Government Free Zone” or GFZ. Where everyone looks out for themselves, and everything is magically paid for without the need for pesky taxation.

• Link
• Report this comment

Jay 8:28 property taxes are (or used to be) a pretty close proxy

I know many a south Georgian, that when the become annexed and levied local muni taxes, says well now u have to pave my dirt road. And it makes sense

Jay you’re going to have to try again on this one

If you would just also advocate for more expanded toll road as well, I think people would call that a balanced approach

• Link
• Report this comment

Zeke

There’s a big pothole on 324 in front of the Kroger entrance, can you get out and fill it today?

It nearly sucked in a mini cooper.

• Link
• Report this comment

Bosch – 9:32 – did you see my earlier link? carnival, babbee.

• Link
• Report this comment

Mass Transit equals less congestion, cleaner air, enhanced quality of life and a more attractive business climate — valuable outcomes that should benefit everyone, regardless of whether they ride the system or not.

Mass Transit in the long term equals saving $$ and making $$! Maybe it’s the “long term” that’s the hang up for some people, but not everything happens overnight.

• Link
• Report this comment

The idea that nobody will use transit because only 5% use transit now is such a disingenuous argument that I would be shocked if the people making it didn’t realize it themselves. Only 5% use transit now because the transit system is so sparse and inadequate. If you could actually get everywhere you wanted to go using the transit system, that number would jump considerably. I know if I could hop on a train in Stone Mountain to get to Atlantic Station, Turner Field, etc. I would.

• Link
• Report this comment

A government funded group masquerading as a private sector company!!!

Well, government built the lines, it has a private company supposedly running things, but that privatisation wasn’t without its controversies, it’s only being doing so for about ten years and I suspect the jury’s still out on how well it’s actually doing as opposed to having direct government oversight.

Thing is, it’s something jt coulda figured out with about three seconds’ worth of skimming the mtr wiki page. I guess he and others were desperate to find something in answer to Jay’s challenge.

For the record, nobody has. and nobody will, either.

• Link
• Report this comment

“Third… GLL is the new Black Leader, didn’t you know that??? Why else would he be the one to know what we think, what we do, why we think and do, and what’s best for us…”

This morning there was a rather ugly insinuation regarding “muggers” on MARTA. As is well documented here, the neo-cons inevitably stand up for each other when challenged on their covert racism, but this seems to be a sad fact of this new “conservatism”. Or as I call it – faux conservatism.

Understanding Republican groupthink on matters of race is very difficult.

These articles were pretty enlightening:

A 1996 study on the relationship between racism and conservatism found that the correlation was stronger among more educated individuals, though specifically anti-Black racism did not increase. They also found that the correlation between racism and conservatism could be entirely accounted for by their mutual relationship with social dominance orientation. The authors concluded that opposition to affirmative action, especially among more highly educated conservatives, was better explained by social dominance orientation than by principled conservatism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Dominance_Orientation

According to research by Altemeyer, right-wing authoritarians tend to exhibit cognitive errors and symptoms of faulty reasoning. Specifically, they are more likely to make incorrect inferences from evidence and to hold contradictory ideas that result from compartmentalized thinking. They are also more likely to uncritically accept insufficient evidence that supports their beliefs, and they are less likely to acknowledge their own limitations.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_Wing_Authoritarianism

• Link
• Report this comment

JohnnyReb: Why do you hate Rachel Maddow?

• Link
• Report this comment

If Maddow is in fact gay, I guarantee she wants to be dominant.

The skeerd-uv-teh-gayz crowd always has these moments, where their secret fantasies pop up, er, out.

Really, JohnnyReb, that’s just bizarre.

• Link
• Report this comment

Hypocrite Hunter: but not a single argument has been propounded that suggests that these transportation projects will improve my life or generate any return on the investment of my resources.

Jobs. More people will be able to get to work faster and easier if it is expanded/schedules increased. They also, one day because they now have better jobs and more choice in jobs, will be able to buy a car and get off this particular government t*t. Right?

• Link
• Report this comment

scout?

buried?

it’s the headline at Huffington Post.

i often read the backs of cereal boxes, but never for news.

• Link
• Report this comment

Jay 9:36 my argument is that property taxes (were) are a reasonable proxy for tolls. Everyone who lives in a house pays property taxes. Leaving homestead exemptions out for a moment, property taxe paid for the roads. It was a logical, more efficient, and a fair way to fund roads. More so than putting up a toll every 50 feet of course.

Property taxes were set up to pay for roads and every who lives somewhere pays them. Make sense now?

• Link
• Report this comment

Bosch – “And geez, you people have some knife/stabbing issues! ”

every rose …

(but, at least unlike guns, you don’t get people knifed in crossfire or sprayed with knives in a drive-by knifing)

and yes, every August bank holiday is carnival in Notting Hill

• Link
• Report this comment

Yes, Adam, and don’t forget about her promise of $2 gasoline just around the corner if she’s elected. (I think she got that information on authority from God.)

• Link
• Report this comment

Granny:

By the way ……………. Nothing really changes ………… that Marine was in Kilo 3/4. I was in India 3/4 (sister company) in 1967-68. Photo could have been the same. They always seem to be timeless.

Oh, perfidious nation.

• Link
• Report this comment

Charlotte, Dallas and Tampa-St. Pete will be more than happy to take the businesses GA seems to want to dissuade from moving/staying here. Unless metro-Atlanta (and that means all of GA) takes a more progressive and aggressive stance on transportation, Atlanta will find itself engulfed and forgotten in the kudzu of its own making.

• Link
• Report this comment

“It should have been Jay’s thread this morning”

OR Scout, it could have been YOUR topic on YOUR blog this morning.

• Link
• Report this comment

USMC — “And RACHEL MADCOW== ANGRY, ANTI-diversity, Leftwing, Hate Speech”

Examples, please?

• Link
• Report this comment

And Scout,

Did you also visit Wingfield this morning to bitch about him not talking about what YOU want to talk about? How about Bob Barr, or Wooten?

• Link
• Report this comment

“It’s the same argument from our wingnutty friends about education. Let’s slash it to the bone and then bitch about how bad it sucks (just as a guise to push our real agenda of privatizing it).”

This is a classic example of the Democrat philosophy. Keep spending and spending and spending and than something will work!!! LOL

• Link
• Report this comment

“That part explains Dave R so much”

That part explains EVERY wingnut here Adam.

• Link
• Report this comment

And get our of my head Jay Bookman.

• Link
• Report this comment

And for those “conservatives”against transit, perhaps they need to read William Lind:

http://www.amconmag.com/cpt/2011/05/03/why-republicans-will-soon-need-transit/

• Link
• Report this comment

USMC: Alright, I’ll be right back with data showing that the percentage of blacks and whites who are poor is statistically correlated to the percentage of blacks and whites who live in Atlanta overall.

• Link
• Report this comment

Aquagirl — “The skeerd-uv-teh-gayz crowd always has these moments, where their secret fantasies pop up, er, out.”

They’s afeard of catchin’ teh s00par-ghey.

• Link
• Report this comment

“I prefer to hold you to account as you attempt to do others.”

hold him to account?

and exactly who do you think you are, again???

criminey, talk about an over-inflated sense of self.

• Link
• Report this comment

Specifically, they are more likely to make incorrect inferences from evidence and to hold contradictory ideas that result from compartmentalized thinking.

Exhibit A:

WOODSTOCK MIKE

This is a classic example of the Democrat philosophy. Keep spending and spending and spending and than something will work!!! LOL

In other words, Woodstock Mike, we are mocking you.

• Link
• Report this comment

Bosch @ 9:46

Oh, I used to but there’s not that much posting over there.

I have limited time each day so I go where I can impact the most ………………….

And like I said last night, you libs. talk about me even when I’m gone ………… you know ……… kind of like a bad commercial you hate ………….. you still think about what it said.

NOW THAT’S IMPACT !

• Link
• Report this comment

USMC: Hey Rick, I didn’t make the initial statement. That is why I was asking if Adam had any stats to clarify HIS declaration. (you sound like an angry MARTA rider)

Huh? You don’t know who I am? I’m Rich James Witch!

JohnnyReb: If Maddow is in fact gay, I guarantee she wants to be dominant.

More “special” totally incomprehensible comments. Jane Goodall would be sooo proud!

• Link
• Report this comment

Granny @ 9:49

“Oh, perfidious Granny”

• Link
• Report this comment

Why is this so hard for people to get?

We need better transit in the city over the long run (not the beltline unless the land is upzoned)

But we also need massive road expansion. Toll the heck out of the interstates to help pay for it along with a high gas tax.

Atlanta needs to get moving again. FL traffic, by comparison, is nirvana. There isn’t any congestion. Not one jam in 3 months. Meanwhile back in Atlanta this last weeks, 400 was at a standstill mid Saturday afternoon and connector road repaving meant no one went anywhere even on the weekend. Unbelievable. And people wonder why businesses and residents are evacuating…..

• Link
• Report this comment

Adam,

It seems like those countries did a better job of planning than we have done here in Atlanta. We have sprawl. As I said before everyone works everywhere and everyone lives everywhere. Those cities in Europe have lots of people living in one area and working in another, planned in advance. Mass transit works much better in a situation like that.

Like I said above, I don’t claim to be a knowledgable person in this area. I just don’t see how it can work well given the situation we are in now. And it sure is expensive.

• Link
• Report this comment

Mike — “This is a classic example of the Democrat philosophy. Keep spending and spending and spending and than something will work!!! LOL”

Case in point: the Iraq War, from 2003-2009.

• Link
• Report this comment

Instead of the state of Ga, counties or even the federal government pushing public transportation off on us — why is there not a greater push for telecommuting? This is really the best way to get people off the road. And let’s start with the state, federal, county, and city employees driving into downtown Atlanta. Whenever they have a holiday and only private sector employees have the highway and roads the traffic runs ohhhhhhhh soooooooooooo much smoother.

• Link
• Report this comment

Mass transit in Macon…… HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH. Hell, most of us who travel downtown won’t even get out of their cars, especially at night. And with those idiots on the city council spending our tax money? What a joke.

• Link
• Report this comment

USinUK

“Benita Dodd of the Georgia Public Policy Foundation, a conservative think tank, points out that just 5 percent of commuters in metro Atlanta regularly ride a bus or rail system, concluding that with its emphasis on transit, “the project list ignores this reality.” ”

that doesn’t surprise me – these are the same people who underfund government agencies – like food inspection – then say that it doesn’t work / isn’t fit for purpose.

” of course Atlanta rail isn’t used more – it was never funded enough to be where people wanted to go!”

USinUK, And where should it go? who decides where it should go?

Travel

Business

Lifestyle

Obituaries

Homes
Jobs
Cars
Classifieds
. .
<A HREF="http://clicks.beap.ad.yieldmanager.net/c/YnY9MS4wLjAmYnM9KDE0aHZlYjBmaChnaWQkNThjOTIzOGMtZDMwZi0xMWUwLTkzZDItNTNlYWY4MzY4NDg2LHN0JDEzMTQ3MTIzNjg4NjU2MTgsc2kkNzQ1NTUxLHYkMS4wLGFpZCQ1S3NLUEdLSVZTQS0sY3QkMjUseWJ4JFRjb1Q3WUt4dDRpSTF5eF9iNG5GQmcsciQyLHJ

..

237 comments Add your comment

USinUK

August 30th, 2011
7:22 am

“Benita Dodd of the Georgia Public Policy Foundation, a conservative think tank, points out that just 5 percent of commuters in metro Atlanta regularly ride a bus or rail system, concluding that with its emphasis on transit, “the project list ignores this reality.” ”

that doesn’t surprise me – these are the same people who underfund government agencies – like food inspection – then say that it doesn’t work / isn’t fit for purpose.

of course Atlanta rail isn’t used more – it was never funded enough to be where people wanted to go!

• Link
• Report this comment

And, of course, this is the type of thing that happens in metro-Atlanta:

http://www.ajc.com/news/cobb/pedestrian-convicted-of-vehicular-1014879.html

Because of poor infrastructure design a child is killed, and the parent is convicted of manslaughter. By a jury who admitted they had never ridden transit.

This is what metro-Atlanta is now. As a community are we really ok with that?

• Link
• Report this comment

Good stuff Jay.

I have never had a problem riding Marta too when I lived in Atlanta.

Anything to get some cars off the roads is a good thing.

• Link
• Report this comment

“In other words, Woodstock Mike, we are mocking you.”

Bosch, I quit caring about anything you say a while back man… Your are simply an ignorant human being but you are entitled to that so congrats. All I said was maybe it’s not the greatest idea to spend double digit millions on roads right now, maybe we should use the money to create jobs, those kinds of issues. You make people not want to even come on this blog. I bet you are so proud, that’s what is really disgusting.

• Link
• Report this comment

Man, sorry for the added stuff, I only highlited USinUK, and the rest followed.

• Link
• Report this comment

jewcowboy,

I’ve often thought that city planning is the biggest failure in this equation. I’ve never understood why we don’t have “neighborhoods” anymore where there are businesses withink walking distance, shops, etc. I speculate it’s because of the influence of big business in the political process — “sprawl” equals selling more cars, buying more gas, bigger corporate stores replacing small community ones.

• Link
• Report this comment

USMC: http://www.blackdemographics.com/atlantahousing.html

Bottom of the page. Poverty rates among blacks compared to all Atlanta is slightly higher. Just like the ratio of the AMOUNT of blacks in Atlanta compares to all of Atlanta.

Here comes the NUH-UH!

• Link
• Report this comment

Joe Mama,

I was thinking about another kind of lower intestinal impaction, but I won’t go into that here.

• Link
• Report this comment

From AmVet’s post: The authors concluded that opposition to affirmative action, especially among more highly educated conservatives, was better explained by social dominance orientation than by principled conservatism.

What’s so funny about that ^^ statement AmVet is that statistics shows that the greatest receivers of AA is in fact, white women. At least on paper. In essence a lot of white men use their wives’ name to set up businesses, receive the benefits of AA, and then run the businesses themselves, (wives are only the “owners” on paper).

Yet, according to your link and statement, these very same white men are against something that they’ve used exclusively to benefit themselves NOT a “minority”.

Jane Goodall would be proud.

• Link
• Report this comment

jt: Hong Kong’s MRT=Mass Rail Transit CORPORATION.
.
BIG diff.
For those that worship at the alter of the state can’t/won’t see it.

OR, the fact that the only shareholder for the entire thing is the government means that the Hong Kong MRT is SOCIALIST!!!!!

• Link
• Report this comment

All I said was maybe it’s not the greatest idea to spend double digit millions on roads right now, maybe we should use the money to create jobs, those kinds of issues.

it would be nice if people could GET to those jobs. And if you don’t think we need to spend money on transportation, you’ve been inhaling too many exhaust fumes. Seriously.

The cons have coasted (literally) long enough on the investments of past generations, puttering around in their SUV’s with the teanut bumper sticker, bragging about their fiscal responsibility. Pay up, parasites.

• Link
• Report this comment

“why is there not a greater push for telecommuting?”

Well, for one thing, it’s a tad hard to build a house, serve a restaurant customer, or clean someone house by telecommunting.

• Link
• Report this comment

Because of poor infrastructure design a child is killed, and the parent is convicted of manslaughter. By a jury who admitted they had never ridden transit.

jcb, I had missed this story. and now I almost wish I still didn’t know about it, because it makes me feel very badly about my species.

if it’s any consolation, she’s opted for a new trial and is fighting the charge.

http://www.ajc.com/news/cobb/cobb-mom-opts-for-1042791.html

• Link
• Report this comment

jt,

“For those that worship at the alter of the state can’t/won’t see it.”

For those who can’t or won’t understand land use management and population density won’t see comparing Hong Kong to Atlanta is asinine.

• Link
• Report this comment

I think a GREAT start to REVERSING the negative stigma that has crippled MARTA for years would be to raise the level of Law enforcement activity on the trains.

Let’s clean our act up if we want to attract new rides and new rail lines.

In Europe, they don’t put up with near the level of disobedience, crime and garbage that is found on MARTA.

Just an idea…

• Link
• Report this comment

I like your thinking. If you’re a public employee suckling up to the government teat then you ride public transportation.

Or you’re a MSNBC employee, deliberately confusing innocent men and making them wonder about if you’re “dominant” when you’re…oh, never mind.

• Link
• Report this comment

Mass transit would have been a better choice…

President Obama’s accused drunken-driving uncle — who was busted after a near collision with a Framingham cop — has had a valid Social Security number for at least 19 years, despite being an illegal immigrant ordered to be deported back to Kenya, the Herald has learned.

Onyango, whose sister, Zeituni Onyango, made headlines when it was revealed she was an illegal immigrant living in public housing in South Boston, was wobbly legged, “slurring” and had “red and glassy eyes” when he was pulled over at 7 p.m. Wednesday on Waverly Street in Framingham…
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++=

Didn’t Jimmy Carter have some drunken relative, too? Wait for it…Obamabeer.

• Link
• Report this comment

USMC — “In Europe, they don’t put up with near the level of disobedience, crime and garbage that is found on MARTA.”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_riots_in_2011

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris_Riots

• Link
• Report this comment

I think “blah blah blah” hit the nail on the head. As I worked on the MARTA CN-760 back in the 1980’s, I often worked with Chamblee Police Department for traffic control etc. The general feeling of law enforcement was dread. They knew crime would follow with the rail line. This is not my opinion it was from the top cop on down. There was a time I would walk anywhere in Chamblee after dark now I stay the heck out of Chambodia. Most posters I doubt have ever ridden a real public transportation system like DC Metro, Dart, Bart and the subways of NYC.If you have nothing to compare MARTA to I guess it’s great. I remember Atlanta when trolley cars were up and down Peachtree . This is the the largest hick town in America and there are people who want it to stay that way. If you have never been concerned for your safety on MARTA you haven’t ridden enough. I live in the country 50 miles from the ring around the Congo( I-285 ) and if we had a MARTA station close by I would have to lock my doors and turn on the alarm system and move further out in the sticks.
Atlanta goverment is like the young kid who wants to put $1500 set of wheels on a junker that’s maybe worth $ 500. The sewer system is a joke, the roads are in poor repair, Atl goverment can’t even get their property taxes right and they are going to manage a system like a REAL city…what a joke…bring back the idea of a ferris wheel…if Atlanta wants to continue to be stupid…less go all the way.And for the grammer police…yea I probable screwed up sum spel sum where.

• Link
• Report this comment

Doggone/GA,

“Well, for one thing, it’s a tad hard to build a house, serve a restaurant customer, or clean someone house by telecommunting.”

Telecommuting is not for every job…it is simply a part of the solution. There are millions of jobs in the US that can be done remotely. For example, though we are based in Atlanta, our office manager works from Boston b/c her husband was transferred there. But, obviously, that solution would not work for our receptionist, so she is offered a free MARTA card in exchange for giving up her parking space. There are various solutions to the problem, and telework is simply one.

• Link
• Report this comment

Jewcowboy, Governor Deal and even Purdue may be talking telecommuting with their mouth, but, trust me it is not being put into action among eve the various state agencies. I have a sister who works for the state of Ga and depending on who the director of the agency you may or may not get alternative work options. The state of Ga even subsidizes the parking of some downtown employees and it’s actually cheaper than a monthly Marta pass. As Jay stated, there needs to be a shift in attitudes. And sadly some managers are stuck in two decades ago and want to see your bright smiling face in the place each day. Also we have built all these darn buildings everywhere and whatever will we do with all this real estate if folks worked from home 100% of the time. And you also have all the banks, restaurants, convenience stores, etc., that earn revenue on commuting employees or students.

So instead we keep getting sales tax options for mass transit or road building projects. But if we really wanted to improve air quality and the environment, there is no reason most employees and students could not do what they do from home.

• Link
• Report this comment

Those that don’t have a transportation problem have little concern for those that do, unless it will enrich them somehow — the new GOP.

• Link
• Report this comment

jms

I guess your analysis doesn’t account for all the private sector employees that don’t work on holidays. You know like bank employees, executive level employees, and others who don’t work on holidays. Epic fail on trying to smear public sector employees as there’s quite a few of us who work holidays, like Christmas, when everybody else is at home with their families.

• Link
• Report this comment

“puttering around in their SUV’s with the teanut bumper sticker, bragging about their fiscal responsibility. Pay up, parasites.”

If one really thinks about that one, those driving SUV’s actually pay more……………….

• Link
• Report this comment

stands for decibels,

“now I almost wish I still didn’t know about it”

Yeah, it received little local coverage, but it did make news nationally and internationally, as the rest shook their heads about how backwards we are.

• Link
• Report this comment

I was checking the traffic conditions in NY, Boston, and Chicago, cities that, according to our bloggers here, have wonderful mass transit systems. Looks like traffic sucks at those places, too.

• Link
• Report this comment

USMC,

“In Europe, they don’t put up with near the level of disobedience, crime and garbage that is found on MARTA. ”

Do you just make up this stuff? You do realize lying is a sin in your god’s eyes, right?

• Link
• Report this comment

“This blog is really becoming vicious”

Says Woodstock Mike, but Woodstock Mike also says things like this (weirdly enough right before he writes about how “vicious” we all have become:

“Uh, they drive their car you idiot. Don’t think there are many people that work in downtown Atlanta that don’t own a car you fool.”

Again, hypocrisy — meet Mike.

• Link
• Report this comment

Granny @ 9:57

I think you meant “perspicaCious” …………….

But certainly not “pussilianimous” ……………..

• Link
• Report this comment

Jay @ 9:57

“Sorry Scout, Your application for martyrdom is hereby rejected.”

Oh, there are plenty of other places to go but I would miss (some) of you guys.

• Link
• Report this comment

“I do not trust GRTA or Marta to build anything truely useful to the Average Georgian”

Funny, 590K people a day ride MARTA. I would say they are the “Average Georgian”, and they find it useful.

• Link
• Report this comment

Does anybody on this page ride MARTA? Everyday I ride the train there is standing room only for most of the ride. I see business people in suits sitting next to laborers, fast-food workers sitting next to students. Everyone is getting along, everyone feels safe, and no one is begging for money. MARTA police are on every train and at most stations. Maybe all you folks talking bad about MARTA need to take a ride on the train during commuting times and see for your self how efficent the system moves people thru the 3 largest business districts in the state! I ride the train 20 miles and I takes me 30 minutes to get from East Atlanta to the Perimeter. If I drove it would take the same amount of time on a good day and twice as long if traffic is bad. Rail Transit is reliable, I always know what time I will be to work and home. I haven’t bought gas in 2 months and will never go back to being a slave to my car!

• Link
• Report this comment

Hong Kong’s MRT’s mass transit “CORPORATION mindset” of profit…………………
.
will beat ………..
.
Atlanta’s government’s mass transit “AUTHORITY mindset” of state/politics……………………………
.
Every……………………………………………….day………………………………….forever.
.
As an aside…………….Marta has no authority over me.None of those Transpo dudes do.

• Link
• Report this comment

MARTA Rida,

“Does anybody on this page ride MARTA?”

Yep…everyday for the past 6 years.

• Link
• Report this comment

Billybob: let me know when you libs have any ideas that don’t require others to pay for it

Oh, you mean like tax cuts? That requires someone else to pay for it too. Someone other than the public, meaning other countries and banks. But that’s ok, right?

• Link
• Report this comment

Btw. I have no problem with transit at all. IF the cityies will UPZONE all the property within 1.5 miles of the lines to an FAR (floor – area ratio) of 10 or more, mixed use commercial multifamily

Let’s see if the big mouth love to spend your $ politicians will bite off on that and do their fair share of the heavy lifting….

• Link
• Report this comment

heathen — “I was checking the traffic conditions in NY, Boston, and Chicago, cities that, according to our bloggers here, have wonderful mass transit systems. Looks like traffic sucks at those places, too.”

It’d suck *more* if not for their transit systems.

How many transit systems other than MARTA have you used as anything other than a tourist or visitor?

• Link
• Report this comment

Adam.

“Oh, you mean like tax cuts?”

Or right-of-way acquisition for widening roads, as well as the construction and maintenance of said roads?

• Link
• Report this comment

MARTA Rida — “Does anybody on this page ride MARTA?”

It’s not really an option for me, as I have only an 8-mile commute. But I used it all the time when I was in grad school.

• Link
• Report this comment

Jay @ 0928,

I’d like to see that. A toll gate set up at the end of your driveway. Pay for the use of those roads…owned by a private company, of course…with the option to raise rates whenever traffic is bad. Ha!

• Link
• Report this comment

Having lived a few years (temporarily) in NJ – commuting to NYC… riding the train was incredible. I did enormous amounts of work, read many books, relaxed and enjoyed the hour long trip. I got home refreshed, and ready to have fun with the kids – not wired to the gills after a nasty commute!
The trip wasn’t cheap, but considering the time saved, was worth every penny.
Some people drove, but came home frazzled, and spent way more per month that I did (and yes, the trains were full!)
Commuting in Atlanta isn’t civilized at all.

• Link
• Report this comment

Paragraph QOTD: To American exceptionalists freedom means being able to do what you want unencumbered by obligations to your fellow citizens. It is a definition of freedom the rest of the world finds bewildering. Can it be, they ask, that the quintessential expression of American freedom is low or no taxes and the right to carry a loaded gun into a bar? To which a growing number of Americans, if recent elections were any indication, would respond, “You’re damn right it is.”

• Link
• Report this comment

Well, if these city slickers want trains, let them pay for them. I ain’t going to pay a extra tax just so some weenie can ride a train from his homo high-rise condo to his work and back.

We need more roads. Lots of them. We need extra lanes. For example GA 400 should be ten lanes each way, at least.

To those people that think trains are the future, I say, I’ll give up my pickup truck when you can pry my cold dead fingers off of the steering wheel. Buy your own trains and leave the rest of us alone. We don’t want the thiefs riding a train coming from downtown Atlanta to steal our stuff and then riding a train back.

This has got nothing to do with race. I ain’t a racist. I just don’t like or trust Those People. I got a right to do that.

Have a good Tuesday everybody.

• Link
• Report this comment

Tired – cars that drive themselves (available in 10 years max and at google now) will negate this advantage that transit currently has

Furthermore, cars will become much more fuel efficient as they become first safer, then lighter

But I’m fine with transit if the pols will also bite the bullet and upzone all the stupid empty land near these future and current rail lines

• Link
• Report this comment

Paul: It may be. There were a couple attempts to turn it into ObamaHate. But mostly silence.

• Link
• Report this comment

“Oh, you mean like tax cuts? That requires someone else to pay for it too. Someone other than the public, meaning other countries and banks. But that’s ok, right?”

Hmmm……..scratching my head on that one……..care to elaborate?

• Link
• Report this comment

adam,
is money that i have earned mine, or is it the gov’ts money?

• Link
• Report this comment

md: Tax cuts by themselves don’t also cut spending. Instead, money is borrowed to pay for the difference. And that means whoever we borrow from is paying for it. And with our overall idea that taxes must be cut forever, and we can just borrow instead of trying to pay back our loans, we will continue to borrow to pay for borrowing until eventually we decide we’re just going to default on all our debt, essentially meaning someone else pays for it.

• Link
• Report this comment

“is money that i have earned mine, or is it the gov’ts money”

Some of both. You have to pay to live here Billybob, as we’ve discussed, roads aren’t free.

Now, how about that other question.

• Link
• Report this comment

“riding the train was incredible. I did enormous amounts of work, read many books, relaxed and enjoyed the hour long trip. I got home refreshed, and ready to have fun with the kids – not wired to the gills after a nasty commute!”

I used to be one of those “wired to the gills” in the Atl……….then I simply moved. I now arrive home refreshed every day because there is no traffic…………….

Amazing how folks in big cities put up with all the crap when there are alternatives………goes back to choices………to each his own.

• Link
• Report this comment

I think the problem with the anti transportation crowd is that they spend to much time in their cars listening to talk radio propaganda.

• Link
• Report this comment

Worth another view ………… LOL !

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2KlpT3AIKA&feature=related

• Link
• Report this comment

Jay, I can’t help but notice that your question went unanswered, as in every other time it is posed: What is the source of your allegation that the system is dirty and crime-ridden?

Interesting, isn’t it? I seem to remember providing evidence the last time I was asked, and the best I got back was “oh yeah well your evidence means you changed your original statement!”

• Link
• Report this comment

it is a privelege for me to pay taxes to live in this country……..spoken like a true democrat……we are learning a little today….

• Link
• Report this comment

Bosch:

Totally your choice but many do because they choose to make a comment, or call me a name and some even choose to debate.

Your choice man. Why did you even reply this time then? Save your keystokes.

• Link
• Report this comment

Billybob: it is a privelege for me to pay taxes to live in this country……..spoken like a true democrat……we are learning a little today….

If only it were true that you were learning something….

• Link
• Report this comment

Adam:

I rode MARTA to the airport three times. In two of those cases, I almost had to make an arrest. One was a pathetic drunk and the second was a guy intending to get something out of a woman’s purse.

• Link
• Report this comment

Adam 10:59 not a whole lot more. Computers are cheap

It’s a product liability problem holding things up, nothing more

• Link
• Report this comment

Oh no, Scout has done been victimized again by the evil blog monitor. Yeah, like that only happens to poor Scout.

• Link
• Report this comment

USinUK,

Ok, my bad.

• Link
• Report this comment

adam,
i have a phd in ‘lib’, but thanks though…..

• Link
• Report this comment

Jewxowboy 11:07 I agree

That’s why I think we need both (or an all if the above answer)

More transit, more (toll) roads

• Link
• Report this comment

“widening roads doesn’t solve the congestion problem. The wide roads just get clogged too”

I think we should work to make driving as inconvenient as possible.

• Link
• Report this comment

Rasmussen today….. 21% strongly approve of Bozo….. 44% do not. This is exactly the opposite of what it was in Jan of 2009. 29% feel that Bozo is handling the economy correctly…… 71% do not. Still, 14% feel that the country is headed in the right direction….. the rest do not. Unemployment still at 9.2%….. and Rick Perry is stupid?

• Link
• Report this comment

“I rode MARTA to the airport three times.”

I find it amusing. I ride MARTA almost everyday…for many years. I rarely see anything like what all these non-riders always describe. Now, I’m not calling them liars, but they do seem to have very active imaginations.

http://youtu.be/VvfXvW2wsuQ

• Link
• Report this comment

Bosch:

You’re wasting keystrokes again.

• Link
• Report this comment

I think the problem with the anti transportation crowd is that they spend to much time in their cars listening to talk radio propaganda.

Yep.

• Link
• Report this comment

Adam:

I love it when you guys keep talking about me. Makes me feel wanted.

• Link
• Report this comment

“was way better than mine”

But was also really scary. I’d hate to be on Aquagirl’s wrong side.

• Link
• Report this comment

The nerve! From these two experiences I take the view that all Geek Squads are bad.

I made the mistake of calling the Geek Squad when my PC was acting up. He was here 20 minutes, deleted a virus, slipped my calculator into his pocket when I wasn’t looking, and charged me $195.

Goodbye, Geek Squad. I hope somebody else is willing to pay for those Volkswagen bugs, for I certainly won’t again.

• Link
• Report this comment

“double decking 285 and portions of 75 and 85 would do a lot”

And gee, how much will that cost? Or is it just free cause the wingnuts want it?

• Link
• Report this comment

kayaker

Got any Rasmussen on metro commuter opinions, or are you just trying to bogart the thread?

• Link
• Report this comment

No, we need more cars on the road so more gas will be used so that the oil companies will make more money so that the republicans can get more political donations.

• Link
• Report this comment

Still no takers for Jay’s challenge, I see.

For the off topic spammer:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecutory_delusions

• Link
• Report this comment

Jewxowboy 11:17 fine by me

Had the aame thoughts for a while now

• Link
• Report this comment

Disgusted: Goodbye, Geek Squad. I hope somebody else is willing to pay for those Volkswagen bugs, for I certainly won’t again.

Yes, your bad experience means Geek Squad never helps anyone, steals calculators, and always does a half ass job. Your ONE bad experience means that.

Personal experience trumps reality. Every time.

• Link
• Report this comment

Uncle Jed,

“how many points will I need to redeem for a Marta token? ”

MARTA doesn’t take tokens.

• Link
• Report this comment

Bosch 11:19 no kidding it would cost a lot. You know, probably like 6 or 7 billion dollars, like the amount from the tax. Plus tolls. But it would get more people moving than transit

And thx, I’m not a wingnut

• Link
• Report this comment

“But it would get more people moving than transit”

I disagree, there is really no evidence to suggest otherwise — we can look at other cities to see the success of mass transit.

• Link
• Report this comment

Jm,

“But it would get more people moving than transit”

In the short term…until traffic filled it in, and we were back in the exact same dilemma. Only now with more congestion and pollution. The golden rule of road building; Build it,and they will come.

• Link
• Report this comment

1811 — “Freedom of speech ? Only if “you” like it. HA !”

Let me familiarize you with what the Constitution says about freedom of speech. It says that Congress “shall make no law” regarding it.

So your bleating about having your free speech infringed is quite out of place. Jay’s sandbox, Jay’s rules. Maybe you could go start your own blog if you don’t like it — then you could censor all the folks you pleased over there.

• Link
• Report this comment

Bookman,

Tell all of us uninformed out here what you mean by your add on comment, “Fresh Sheets”.

• Link
• Report this comment

Only 5% use mass transit primarily because it is not convenient. People in my area have to drive 30 minutes to get to Marta which takes an additional 35 minutes to ride in. I can drive myself in 45 minutes. Add to that the frequent offers to buy perfume, the begging, the drunks, and the lack of visibility of any law enforcement and Marta just isn’t appealing.

I’m not against investing in Mass Transit. I’m just against giving Marta any regional money or control of any expanded system. They have had plenty of time to clean their system up but just haven”t done it. Mo money will just buy us mo of the same from that group.

• Link
• Report this comment

http://news.yahoo.com/why-drug-testing-poor-could-unconstitutional-081205581.html

LOL I’m missing how drug testing welfare recipients is unconstitutional. Hell, I say add in random drug tests as long as your on welfare. So, is drug testing for jobs unconstitutional as well?

• Link
• Report this comment

But was also really scary. I’d hate to be on Aquagirl’s wrong side.

Years of prejudice against us water-breathers takes its toll.

I’m so glad the Republicans have taken us under the big GOP tent. Their tireless work in wingnutty science denial means we’ll soon be ceded some major coastal cities when those glaciers melt.

• Link
• Report this comment

Sure, transit won’t solve all woes – but consider if something happens to a major section of our road system…. things that have happened in other places.
Say a truck accident causes a major fire on a bridge over the river – and closes that direction for many, many months – or a year! Without alternatives, commuters will be inconvenienced by not just a little bit.
Having choices and alternatives allow for a better transportation system.
Could you imagine NY or Chicago without transit – nobody could get anywhere…. Those cities were smaller years ago… ours will grow too, that is unless we strangle it.

• Link
• Report this comment

“There is one aspect of riding MARTA that no one talks much about here. I, a white man, rode MARTA buses and trains for three years. I was never threatened or injured. However, every single day, I had to endure the cold, hard hate-filled stares of a great many “African-Americans”.”

And I rode it every working day for 5 years, including after midnight and never experienced any such “stares.” Had lots of interesting conversations though.

• Link
• Report this comment

Doggone/GA

“And I rode it every working day for 5 years, including after midnight and never experienced any such “stares”

Yeah…me neither. And I wear bowties and fedoras.

• Link
• Report this comment

md

That’s not gonna happen with this upcoming vote. As the plan stands now, I’m a definite NO vote.

• Link
• Report this comment

The Tax will be voted down.

• Link
• Report this comment

I would be all for this plan if there was a chance that it wouldn’t turn into a black hole with overspending, delays, corruption, kickbacks and you name it.
The leaders in the Atlanta region are just too corrupt and have not proven that they will spend the money wisely.

• Link
• Report this comment

Ask the Delta employees that were mugged how safe MARTA is !!

• Link
• Report this comment

You have six weeks to get Mathews and Lee to change Cobb’s list before you lose ALL your Atlanta projects.

As long as the list involves my taxes paving roads in Cobb or any other county that I never use, I will vote NO!! Until the list is only to expand rail throughout the metro area, my vote is NO!!!

• Link
• Report this comment

As one that has a heathy distrust of too much government in too many aspect of our lives (i should know i work for a government) I do not undertand why so many in our once great state of Georgia are so against proper infrastructure development. It is like the words “planning” and “future” are bad words. I used to support the original cause of the tea party uprising but the idiots have lost focus and turned to trying to make local and state governments into non-functioning entities, i.e. Anarchy. I am very disappointed in my fellow libertarian/conservatives. Educate yourselves on the issues before screaming no.

• Link
• Report this comment

if the people that use it are unwilling to foot the majority of the bill for it, then it shouldn’t happen.

That includes highways as well as public transportation.

The true proof and value of any project is to see who is willing to actually pay.

So far, mass transit proponents have had the majority of the costs paid by the 90% that are not using it. That is a severe imbalance.

• Link
• Report this comment

I would gladly pay a tax for better transit in our area if we had uncorrupt reliable people at GDOT that could actually do their job without wasting millions of dollars. But we don’t have that, so I’m voting no for the SPLOST.

• Link
• Report this comment

Jay, you have no argument here. However, the primary problem that will keep the majority of people off the trains is security, real and perceived. For it to work, there would have to be more visible policing of the system, and the whackos would have to be controlled.

• Link
• Report this comment

TAX and SPEND, TAX and SPEND…..boy does that get old.

False taglines usually do get old…..

• Link
• Report this comment

“Under Georgia’s constitution, revenue from the state’s gasoline tax is restricted to use for roads and bridges and can’t be used to fund transit.”

There’s a reason it’s that way, and that MARTA, e.g., is confined to Fulton and DeKalb. Jay’s little ‘We Are the World” Kumbaya crowd can’t grasp that it’s the collective, conscious choice of most people to get as far away as possible from Little Zimbabwe.

The sales tax referendum was already doomed – this 55% allocation to public transit is just the nail in the coffin.

• Link
• Report this comment

We don’t need anymore new taxes for any reason. The taxes, permits, tags, and other fees take about 54% of your gross salary and that number is low according to former President Clinton. President Clinton said actually if you add up all the different taxes (State,Federal,City,County) and all the different fees and charges the American taxpaying working family spends about 64% of their gross money back to the State and Federal Government. We need to spend less and do more with our money. In other words be wiser with less. You could cut wasteful spending and frauld. Also stop paying government mangers so much. Look at what we pay our Mayors, Senators, Congressman, and yes our idiot President Obama. Cut all of the higher paid management public service workers. And cut their travel and vacation spending also. The money we save on Michele Obama would paid off half the debt.

• Link
• Report this comment

Time to be real folks, regarless of our politics. Each day we sit longingly in traffic with visions of a ice cold drink in our hands as we float around the swimming pool. We then wake up to the horn blowing gas spewing traffic mess that we are truly sitting in.

The fact is that if we never invest in a forward looking futuristic travel plan we will be sitting in our cars 20 years from now. There is no reason that would support the current pattern we are in. Some places on the north side perimeter have as many as 10 lanes and you still sit in traffic at certain times of the day. Paving is not the answer and that should be clear.

There is also no reason that we cannot envision a sprawling city in which all out lying suburban cities are interconnected by light rail. If for example I wish to go from lilburn to fairburn I should be able to without ever touching a roadway. We have seen the future and we have the chance to improve it. With that said here is my problem with the tax/transportation plan and why I will not vote for it.

A regional tax should be applied with the region in mind. Under the current plan it serves no useful purpose for the people in Dekalb county to fund an intersection improvement in Henry County and it males even less since for someone in alpharetta to fund projects in Jonesboro. The money from this tax should be used to support regional transportation, In my mind that has to be light rail and rail passenger service. The individual counties who are snapping up funds faster than they can plan for them should be dealing with intersection improvemnets like they always do, through their individual tax base. For example if Henry County wishes to build a wider road within that county they should use the money they raise not Futlon’s.

The politicians are the reson transportation lags and the 18th century thinking they apply, as proof I will share with you that I live in Henry County, I contacted my commissioner with these concerns and she, who is on the state board overseeing this stuff, told me that Henry County is 20 years behind Fulton and the northern counties in road improvments and we therefore need to focus on road needs. So when, I ask do we focus on the future ? when we are like north fulton and dekalb and cannot go 3 miles without filling up, due to stagnant streets and overcrowded roads

• Link
• Report this comment

Explain to me again why we can’t reinstate (or increase) the gasoline tax for this? Why do I, out here in the hinderlands, who uses very little gasoline, have to pay sales tax on my food purchases so you guys in Atlanta can improve your roads? I agree you need to improve YOUR roads. when I drive on roads, I wear them down. I should pay for that privilege.

It seems like a use tax would be the way to pay for road improvement. That way, the people who use the most gasoline – and our roads the most – would pay the most for repairing said roads. I don’t use roads that much; I shouldn’t pay for your use – YOU SHOULD!!

• Link
• Report this comment

Sorry, Jay, the transportation SPLOST is a like, not a need. I can think of several areas, for example, education, which are much higher priorities.

• Link
• Report this comment