Transit investment a necessity for metro Atlanta
Based on the draft list approved earlier this month, 55 percent of the Atlanta region’s proposed transportation sales tax would be used to support mass transit, a fact that has generated considerable grumbling in some quarters.
Benita Dodd of the Georgia Public Policy Foundation, a conservative think tank, points out that just 5 percent of commuters in metro Atlanta regularly ride a bus or rail system, concluding that with its emphasis on transit, “the project list ignores this reality.”
State Sen. Lindsey Tippins, R-Cobb County, believes the list should favor road projects that deliver more immediate relief than longer-term transit projects. State Rep. Sharon Cooper, also a Cobb Republican, argues that the bond between Southerners and their cars is so strong that transit might not work here.
All in all, there’s a sense among many in metro Atlanta that transit is somehow experimental and untested and represents too much of a risk. I’d argue that the exact opposite is true. The real gamble, the real experiment, would be in refusing to make major investments in transit.
Look at who we are. According to the 2010 Census, the 20-county metro Atlanta region has grown to 5.3 million people, an increase of 1 million over the 2000 Census. By 2030 — less than 20 years from now — the region is predicted to host 7.4 million people, which by any measure makes us a major metropolitan region.
So here’s a challenge: Name a major metropolitan region anywhere in the industrialized world that has not made or is not making a major investment in transit. I’m aware of none.
Some people might challenge that claim by pointing to the example of Los Angeles. However, given that region’s severe problems with congestion and air quality, I’m not sure that helps the anti-transit case much. And the truth is, Los Angeles is now trying to hard to retrofit itself, adding subways, light rail and high-speed rail to its auto-centric system.
In addition, Los Angeles already boasts an extensive bus system. According to a new study by the Brookings Institution, Los Angeles ranks second in the country in the percentage of its population within reach of mass transit, behind only Honolulu. Metro Atlanta ranks 82nd out of 100 U.S. metro areas in that category, and most of the areas ranked below Atlanta, such as Chattanooga, Augusta and Baton Rouge, are considerably smaller.
In every human endeavor, changes in scale force changes in systems. In business, for example, small companies are forced to go outside their comfort zones and adopt new ways of doing things as they grow. The systems that worked when you have 10 employees or 100 employees don’t work when you have a payroll of 1,000. The same is true of metro regions. If metro Atlanta chooses to try to grow without a major investment in transit, it takes a course that no other region on the planet has found workable.
Furthermore, the transportation sales tax is our only feasible source of transit investment. Under Georgia’s constitution, revenue from the state’s gasoline tax is restricted to use for roads and bridges and can’t be used to fund transit. The Legislature has made it clear that it has no stomach for altering that provision, and it is even less likely to fund transit directly through general revenues.
(In fact, state leaders are so fearful of transit and taxes that earlier this month, they balked at moving the date of the transportation referendum to an allegedly more favorable date, lest they be accused of supporting such a noxious combination.)
It’s also important to remember that gasoline-tax revenue will continue to be earmarked for construction of highway projects, such as the proposed new toll lanes on I-75 through Cobb County. Taking those projects into account, total transportation spending in the metro region would continue to be weighted toward asphalt over transit.
– Jay Bookman
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456 comments Add your comment
Brosephus
August 30th, 2011
9:42 am
dB
Nobody’s gonna accept that challenge because it’s a losing one. The mental lightweights here majored in attack and diversion. I don’t think they do well with logical reasoning.
AmV
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1xIQmFk1ok0
Enuff Said!!!
Catch y’all later….
USinUK
August 30th, 2011
9:42 am
Bosch – “And geez, you people have some knife/stabbing issues! ”
every rose …
(but, at least unlike guns, you don’t get people knifed in crossfire or sprayed with knives in a drive-by knifing)
and yes, every August bank holiday is carnival in Notting Hill
1811/0311
August 30th, 2011
9:42 am
Granny:
Yep ……….. buried. It should have been Jay’s thread this morning.
Citizen of the World
August 30th, 2011
9:43 am
Yes, Adam, and don’t forget about her promise of $2 gasoline just around the corner if she’s elected. (I think she got that information on authority from God.)
Bosch
August 30th, 2011
9:44 am
“Notting Hill”
AND it’s a cool movie!!
1811/0311
August 30th, 2011
9:44 am
Granny:
By the way ……………. Nothing really changes ………… that Marine was in Kilo 3/4. I was in India 3/4 (sister company) in 1967-68. Photo could have been the same. They always seem to be timeless.
Oh, perfidious nation.
USinUK
August 30th, 2011
9:44 am
Granny G (and Scout) –
while Irene is the headline in the WaPo (for good reason), that’s not to say it didn’t get any play:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia-pacific/august-is-deadliest-month-for-us-troops-in-afghanistan-death-toll-includes-30-killed-in-crash/2011/08/30/gIQAdKqsoJ_story.html?hpid=z4
jewcowboy
August 30th, 2011
9:44 am
Charlotte, Dallas and Tampa-St. Pete will be more than happy to take the businesses GA seems to want to dissuade from moving/staying here. Unless metro-Atlanta (and that means all of GA) takes a more progressive and aggressive stance on transportation, Atlanta will find itself engulfed and forgotten in the kudzu of its own making.
Jay
August 30th, 2011
9:44 am
Scout, if you want to start your own blog, go ahead.
You will not hijack mine.
Bosch
August 30th, 2011
9:45 am
“It should have been Jay’s thread this morning”
OR Scout, it could have been YOUR topic on YOUR blog this morning.
Adam
August 30th, 2011
9:45 am
AmVet: Specifically, they are more likely to make incorrect inferences from evidence and to hold contradictory ideas that result from compartmentalized thinking. They are also more likely to uncritically accept insufficient evidence that supports their beliefs, and they are less likely to acknowledge their own limitations.
That part explains Dave R so much…. especially when it comes to citing evidence that doesn’t make the point he’s trying to make and his belief in being king of the mountain. Is there anything in there about insulting people or shutting up as a form of defeat?
Joe Mama
August 30th, 2011
9:45 am
USMC — “And RACHEL MADCOW== ANGRY, ANTI-diversity, Leftwing, Hate Speech”
Examples, please?
1811/0311
August 30th, 2011
9:45 am
P.S. to Granny:
Here’s the photo.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/08/30/501364/main20099087.shtml?tag=stack
Bosch
August 30th, 2011
9:46 am
And Scout,
Did you also visit Wingfield this morning to bitch about him not talking about what YOU want to talk about? How about Bob Barr, or Wooten?
USMC
August 30th, 2011
9:46 am
I guess I misunderstood you Adam. I thought you said:
“Has anyone bothered to point out that the correlation between poor and not poor has very little to do with race?”
Because that link you kindly pointed out offered no such information regarding your statement; “correlation between income and race” in the city of Atlanta area.
I have many black folk in my life that would probably disagree with you, but then you probably aren’t from Atlanta anyway.
WOODSTOCK MIKE
August 30th, 2011
9:46 am
“It’s the same argument from our wingnutty friends about education. Let’s slash it to the bone and then bitch about how bad it sucks (just as a guise to push our real agenda of privatizing it).”
This is a classic example of the Democrat philosophy. Keep spending and spending and spending and than something will work!!! LOL
godless heathen
August 30th, 2011
9:47 am
Bring back the streetcars in Atlanta. They were so cool. They got power from overhead electric lines and sparks were always flying.
Bosch
August 30th, 2011
9:47 am
“That part explains Dave R so much”
That part explains EVERY wingnut here Adam.
Left wing management
August 30th, 2011
9:47 am
In addition, Los Angeles already boasts an extensive bus system. According to a new study by the Brookings Institution, Los Angeles ranks second in the country in the percentage of its population within reach of mass transit, behind only Honolulu.
Having lived in Los Angeles, I can certainly vouch for that. It’s a melting pot city to rival New York and Toronto of course, and it’s amazing just how transit-intense LA County is without having a long and established subway system. The buses there ARE what the subways are to New York. Part of the fabric of life.
But the local grumblers about public transport working here in Atlanta — always white of course — are right in a way to point to the culture. After all, let’s face it. there is something smacking of socialism about public transport — and these lily white GOP people want no part of any of that.
Jay
August 30th, 2011
9:47 am
Sure, jm. That’s obvious. I’m just not sure what point you’re attempting to make by noting the obvious.
MY point is that it refutes the “roads pay for themselves while transit is subsidized” silliness.
USinUK
August 30th, 2011
9:47 am
my image of Jay’s 9:44
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4UfAL9f74I
Bosch
August 30th, 2011
9:47 am
And get our of my head Jay Bookman.
Adam
August 30th, 2011
9:47 am
Jay and Bosch back-to-back!
Say, I am looking for people to post on my blog. Not Scout, but maybe Bosch, Paul, etc? It might motivate me to finally write more myself XD
jewcowboy
August 30th, 2011
9:47 am
And for those “conservatives”against transit, perhaps they need to read William Lind:
http://www.amconmag.com/cpt/2011/05/03/why-republicans-will-soon-need-transit/
1811/0311
August 30th, 2011
9:48 am
Jay:
“Scout, if you want to start your own blog, go ahead.
You will not hijack mine.”
Oh, I prefer to hold you to account as you attempt to do others.
That is ……….. unless you chose to ban me.
Adam
August 30th, 2011
9:49 am
USMC: Alright, I’ll be right back with data showing that the percentage of blacks and whites who are poor is statistically correlated to the percentage of blacks and whites who live in Atlanta overall.
Granny Godzilla
August 30th, 2011
9:49 am
Scout
but it was BURIED!
You dug it up out of a grave!
Joe Mama
August 30th, 2011
9:50 am
Aquagirl — “The skeerd-uv-teh-gayz crowd always has these moments, where their secret fantasies pop up, er, out.”
They’s afeard of catchin’ teh s00par-ghey.
WOODSTOCK MIKE
August 30th, 2011
9:50 am
I guess the Georgia Republicans that Jay mentions think that in this age of state governments going basically bankrupt maybe it’s not a good idea to throw mega millions into a transit system that we think might be good. Wow, those crazy Republicans!!
USinUK
August 30th, 2011
9:50 am
“I prefer to hold you to account as you attempt to do others.”
hold him to account?
and exactly who do you think you are, again???
criminey, talk about an over-inflated sense of self.
jewcowboy
August 30th, 2011
9:50 am
“roads pay for themselves while transit is subsidized” silliness.”
And here is a conservative take on that:
http://www.amconmag.com/cpt/2011/08/18/how-to-end-all-transportation-subsidies/
Bosch
August 30th, 2011
9:50 am
Specifically, they are more likely to make incorrect inferences from evidence and to hold contradictory ideas that result from compartmentalized thinking.
Exhibit A:
WOODSTOCK MIKE
August 30th, 2011
9:46 am
“It’s the same argument from our wingnutty friends about education. Let’s slash it to the bone and then bitch about how bad it sucks (just as a guise to push our real agenda of privatizing it).”
This is a classic example of the Democrat philosophy. Keep spending and spending and spending and than something will work!!! LOL
In other words, Woodstock Mike, we are mocking you.
poison pen
August 30th, 2011
9:51 am
carlosgvv
“gasoline-tax revenue will continue to be earmarked for construction of highway projects”
” Once our taxes disappear into the political black hole, they can and will be used by the politicians for their pet pork projects. There is no way those of us outside of the political system can ensure these taxes are “earmarked”. Because of this, you can hardly blame us for resisting any new transit taxes”
Carlos, Amen, Amen, Amen.
1811/0311
August 30th, 2011
9:51 am
Bosch @ 9:46
Oh, I used to but there’s not that much posting over there.
I have limited time each day so I go where I can impact the most ………………….
And like I said last night, you libs. talk about me even when I’m gone ………… you know ……… kind of like a bad commercial you hate ………….. you still think about what it said.
NOW THAT’S IMPACT !
williebkind
August 30th, 2011
9:51 am
Are we talking about more spending during the recession? Spend more, spend now, spend on anything, spend, spend, spend. Of course you already decided where the funds are and have checks ready to give out?
I'm Rick James Wa-Itch!
August 30th, 2011
9:51 am
USMC: Hey Rick, I didn’t make the initial statement. That is why I was asking if Adam had any stats to clarify HIS declaration. (you sound like an angry MARTA rider)
Huh? You don’t know who I am? I’m Rich James Witch!
JohnnyReb: If Maddow is in fact gay, I guarantee she wants to be dominant.
More “special” totally incomprehensible comments. Jane Goodall would be sooo proud!
1811/0311
August 30th, 2011
9:51 am
USinUK:
See 9:51
1811/0311
August 30th, 2011
9:53 am
Granny @ 9:49
“Oh, perfidious Granny”
Joe Mama
August 30th, 2011
9:53 am
larry — “To everyone that is concerned about ridership when and if light rail and transit move into the suburbs, there are about 25 people from up here in Northeast Georgia who go to Toccoa to catch Amtrack to take them to work in Atlanta. Yep , 25.”
Gosh, considering when the southbound Crescent gets in to Atlanta (about 830 AM) and what time the northbound train leaves (~730 PM IIRC), I guess that *would* kind of work.
Jm
August 30th, 2011
9:53 am
Why is this so hard for people to get?
We need better transit in the city over the long run (not the beltline unless the land is upzoned)
But we also need massive road expansion. Toll the heck out of the interstates to help pay for it along with a high gas tax.
Atlanta needs to get moving again. FL traffic, by comparison, is nirvana. There isn’t any congestion. Not one jam in 3 months. Meanwhile back in Atlanta this last weeks, 400 was at a standstill mid Saturday afternoon and connector road repaving meant no one went anywhere even on the weekend. Unbelievable. And people wonder why businesses and residents are evacuating…..
jewcowboy
August 30th, 2011
9:53 am
WOODSTOCK MIKE,
“it’s not a good idea to throw mega millions into a transit system that we think might be good.”
Yet they have no problem doing that with roads. wouldn’t the money spend securing right-of-way and construction for road widening projects bankrupt the state just as easily?
Gordon
August 30th, 2011
9:54 am
Adam,
It seems like those countries did a better job of planning than we have done here in Atlanta. We have sprawl. As I said before everyone works everywhere and everyone lives everywhere. Those cities in Europe have lots of people living in one area and working in another, planned in advance. Mass transit works much better in a situation like that.
Like I said above, I don’t claim to be a knowledgable person in this area. I just don’t see how it can work well given the situation we are in now. And it sure is expensive.
1811/0311
August 30th, 2011
9:54 am
Now we’re talking !
“What would America be like under a Rick Perry presidency? Well, if Rick Perry’s Texas is any indication, the country could look forward to 85 mph speed limits, hog hunting from helicopters and a security check “fast-lane” for concealed handgun carriers.”
Joe Mama
August 30th, 2011
9:55 am
Mike — “This is a classic example of the Democrat philosophy. Keep spending and spending and spending and than something will work!!! LOL”
Case in point: the Iraq War, from 2003-2009.
USinUK
August 30th, 2011
9:55 am
“you libs. talk about me even when I’m gone”
just like a bad commercial, you make an impact, just not the one you THINK you make
Marie
August 30th, 2011
9:55 am
Instead of the state of Ga, counties or even the federal government pushing public transportation off on us — why is there not a greater push for telecommuting? This is really the best way to get people off the road. And let’s start with the state, federal, county, and city employees driving into downtown Atlanta. Whenever they have a holiday and only private sector employees have the highway and roads the traffic runs ohhhhhhhh soooooooooooo much smoother.
USinUK
August 30th, 2011
9:55 am
conf call time …
kayaker 71
August 30th, 2011
9:56 am
Mass transit in Macon…… HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH. Hell, most of us who travel downtown won’t even get out of their cars, especially at night. And with those idiots on the city council spending our tax money? What a joke.
Jay
August 30th, 2011
9:57 am
Sorry Scout, Your application for martyrdom is hereby rejected.
poison pen
August 30th, 2011
9:57 am
USinUK
“Benita Dodd of the Georgia Public Policy Foundation, a conservative think tank, points out that just 5 percent of commuters in metro Atlanta regularly ride a bus or rail system, concluding that with its emphasis on transit, “the project list ignores this reality.” ”
that doesn’t surprise me – these are the same people who underfund government agencies – like food inspection – then say that it doesn’t work / isn’t fit for purpose.
” of course Atlanta rail isn’t used more – it was never funded enough to be where people wanted to go!”
USinUK, And where should it go? who decides where it should go?
Travel
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. .
<A HREF="http://clicks.beap.ad.yieldmanager.net/c/YnY9MS4wLjAmYnM9KDE0aHZlYjBmaChnaWQkNThjOTIzOGMtZDMwZi0xMWUwLTkzZDItNTNlYWY4MzY4NDg2LHN0JDEzMTQ3MTIzNjg4NjU2MTgsc2kkNzQ1NTUxLHYkMS4wLGFpZCQ1S3NLUEdLSVZTQS0sY3QkMjUseWJ4JFRjb1Q3WUt4dDRpSTF5eF9iNG5GQmcsciQyLHJ
..
237 comments Add your comment
USinUK
August 30th, 2011
7:22 am
“Benita Dodd of the Georgia Public Policy Foundation, a conservative think tank, points out that just 5 percent of commuters in metro Atlanta regularly ride a bus or rail system, concluding that with its emphasis on transit, “the project list ignores this reality.” ”
that doesn’t surprise me – these are the same people who underfund government agencies – like food inspection – then say that it doesn’t work / isn’t fit for purpose.
of course Atlanta rail isn’t used more – it was never funded enough to be where people wanted to go!
Jm
August 30th, 2011
9:57 am
Jay 9:47 well I think a conclusion of my point is that everyone pays relatively fairly through property taxes
Meanwhile, 95% of sales tax payees don’t use Marta and mart fares don’t pay but 1/10 of costs. So it is a very different scenario.
I’d say your point aboutthem not paying for themselves is 20% true (or accurate)
jewcowboy
August 30th, 2011
9:57 am
And, of course, this is the type of thing that happens in metro-Atlanta:
http://www.ajc.com/news/cobb/pedestrian-convicted-of-vehicular-1014879.html
Because of poor infrastructure design a child is killed, and the parent is convicted of manslaughter. By a jury who admitted they had never ridden transit.
This is what metro-Atlanta is now. As a community are we really ok with that?
USMC
August 30th, 2011
9:57 am
“USMC: Alright, I’ll be right back with data showing that the percentage of blacks and whites who are poor is statistically correlated to the percentage of blacks and whites who live in Atlanta overall.”–ADAM
Adam, I apologize. I either misunderstood your original statement and asked for clarification, or you have now more clearly defined your statement, which sounds a little different from your original.
getalife
August 30th, 2011
9:57 am
Good stuff Jay.
I have never had a problem riding Marta too when I lived in Atlanta.
Anything to get some cars off the roads is a good thing.
Granny Godzilla
August 30th, 2011
9:57 am
Scout
Perfidious – Nope.
Perspicasious – Since birth.
WOODSTOCK MIKE
August 30th, 2011
9:57 am
“In other words, Woodstock Mike, we are mocking you.”
Bosch, I quit caring about anything you say a while back man… Your are simply an ignorant human being but you are entitled to that so congrats. All I said was maybe it’s not the greatest idea to spend double digit millions on roads right now, maybe we should use the money to create jobs, those kinds of issues. You make people not want to even come on this blog. I bet you are so proud, that’s what is really disgusting.
Call it like it is
August 30th, 2011
9:58 am
I don’t think people are against mass transit per say, its just the idea they have in their minds of what mass transit is. Unfortunately Americans get confused between reality and what we see on TV or on the big screen.
How many actions scenes have we seen of car chases running thru rusted out trestles of the subway in Chicago? Apartments being 10 feet away from a track and dealing with noise every 5 minutes. How many shootouts, hostages being taken in NY. Yes its fantasy, but the average Joe equates this into reality and doesn’t want his or her city to become like these guys.
You want mass transit; get a great marketing team to show Atlanta what it’s missing. Give people a different perspective. I know it sounds silly, but we have become very visual as a nation. Call Coke, or Geico and see who they use for marketing. After all we can’t expect everybody to be as intelligent as the ones who comment on Jay’s blog.
poison pen
August 30th, 2011
9:58 am
Man, sorry for the added stuff, I only highlited USinUK, and the rest followed.
Joe Mama
August 30th, 2011
9:59 am
1811 — “And like I said last night, you libs. talk about me even when I’m gone ………… you know ……… kind of like a bad commercial you hate ………….. you still think about what it said.
NOW THAT’S IMPACT !”
I know exactly what you mean. I *still* think about those two impacted wisdom teeth I had cut out without anesthesia when I was 25.
Oh, was that not what you meant?
Bosch
August 30th, 2011
10:01 am
jewcowboy,
I’ve often thought that city planning is the biggest failure in this equation. I’ve never understood why we don’t have “neighborhoods” anymore where there are businesses withink walking distance, shops, etc. I speculate it’s because of the influence of big business in the political process — “sprawl” equals selling more cars, buying more gas, bigger corporate stores replacing small community ones.
jt
August 30th, 2011
10:01 am
MARTA=Metro Atlanta Rapid Transportation AUTHORITY.
.
Hong Kong’s MRT=Mass Rail Transit CORPORATION.
.
BIG diff.
For those that worship at the alter of the state can’t/won’t see it.
.
The poor Hong Kongerians who would not set foot on a Marta train…………………………do.
.
For your general love of statism…………An Hong Konger would scoff in your general direction, as he goes about the best PRIVATE health care,PRIVATE mass transit, and PRIVATE education in the world.
.
Click it or ticket.
Adam
August 30th, 2011
10:01 am
USMC: http://www.blackdemographics.com/atlantahousing.html
Bottom of the page. Poverty rates among blacks compared to all Atlanta is slightly higher. Just like the ratio of the AMOUNT of blacks in Atlanta compares to all of Atlanta.
Here comes the NUH-UH!
jewcowboy
August 30th, 2011
10:02 am
Marie,
“why is there not a greater push for telecommuting?”
There is. More than 600,000 employees across Georgia are doing it. Gov. Deal has named Sept. 12-16, Georgia Telework Week. There is a free telework conference people can attend to see how they can start a telework program in their company.
http://www.cleanaircampaign.org/For-the-Press/Press-Releases/The-Clean-Air-Campaign-and-Governor-Deal-announce-Georgia-Telework-Week-Sept.-12-16
Additionally, GA offered a $20K tax credit for companies who started or expanded a telework program:
http://greenlifeatlanta.com/business/georgia-telework-tax-credit-up-to-20000-for-launching-or-expanding-a-telework-program/
Unfortunately they discontinued it for 2012.
Bosch
August 30th, 2011
10:02 am
Joe Mama,
I was thinking about another kind of lower intestinal impaction, but I won’t go into that here.
Adam
August 30th, 2011
10:02 am
USMC: If poverty rates are roughly equivalent to the overall population demographics, then race is not the deciding factor in who is poor and who is not. That WAS my point.
I'm Rick James Wa-Itch!
August 30th, 2011
10:03 am
From AmVet’s post: The authors concluded that opposition to affirmative action, especially among more highly educated conservatives, was better explained by social dominance orientation than by principled conservatism.
What’s so funny about that ^^ statement AmVet is that statistics shows that the greatest receivers of AA is in fact, white women. At least on paper. In essence a lot of white men use their wives’ name to set up businesses, receive the benefits of AA, and then run the businesses themselves, (wives are only the “owners” on paper).
Yet, according to your link and statement, these very same white men are against something that they’ve used exclusively to benefit themselves NOT a “minority”.
Jane Goodall would be proud.
Ben The Independent
August 30th, 2011
10:04 am
I am delighted to agree with far left Jay. This is a rare event, however I agree Atlanta must have transit to retain it’s status of fast growing ‘capital’ if the south.
Adam
August 30th, 2011
10:04 am
jt: Hong Kong’s MRT=Mass Rail Transit CORPORATION.
.
BIG diff.
For those that worship at the alter of the state can’t/won’t see it.
OR, the fact that the only shareholder for the entire thing is the government means that the Hong Kong MRT is SOCIALIST!!!!!
USMC
August 30th, 2011
10:06 am
“Here comes the NUH-UH”
Ahhh, No. I merely asked you to clarify or back up your statement, which you changed. That’s all.
But keep looking to fight people… online. I think your mighty good at it… from behind the keyboard.
Carry on Lad
Aquagirl
August 30th, 2011
10:06 am
All I said was maybe it’s not the greatest idea to spend double digit millions on roads right now, maybe we should use the money to create jobs, those kinds of issues.
it would be nice if people could GET to those jobs. And if you don’t think we need to spend money on transportation, you’ve been inhaling too many exhaust fumes. Seriously.
The cons have coasted (literally) long enough on the investments of past generations, puttering around in their SUV’s with the teanut bumper sticker, bragging about their fiscal responsibility. Pay up, parasites.
jewcowboy
August 30th, 2011
10:06 am
Bosch,
“I speculate it’s because of the influence of big business in the political process”
Perhaps: http://youtu.be/gURUMv7qZW0
Doggone/GA
August 30th, 2011
10:07 am
“why is there not a greater push for telecommuting?”
Well, for one thing, it’s a tad hard to build a house, serve a restaurant customer, or clean someone house by telecommunting.
jms
August 30th, 2011
10:08 am
“Instead of the state of Ga, counties or even the federal government pushing public transportation off on us — why is there not a greater push for telecommuting? This is really the best way to get people off the road.”
The second best way is to lay people off.
“And let’s start with the state, federal, county, and city employees driving into downtown Atlanta. Whenever they have a holiday and only private sector employees have the highway and roads the traffic runs ohhhhhhhh soooooooooooo much smoother.”
I like your thinking. If you’re a public employee suckling up to the government teat then you ride public transportation.
stands for decibels
August 30th, 2011
10:08 am
Because of poor infrastructure design a child is killed, and the parent is convicted of manslaughter. By a jury who admitted they had never ridden transit.
jcb, I had missed this story. and now I almost wish I still didn’t know about it, because it makes me feel very badly about my species.
if it’s any consolation, she’s opted for a new trial and is fighting the charge.
http://www.ajc.com/news/cobb/cobb-mom-opts-for-1042791.html
Adam
August 30th, 2011
10:08 am
USMC:
Original thought: poor vs not poor has nothing to do with race. Evidence: Demographics overall correlate to demographics in poverty.
That’s not changing my original argument, no matter how much you would like that to be. It is instead providing the evidence you asked for to back it up. But if this is the way you’re going to act when I do just what you ask, I have no reason to grant such requests in the future.
jewcowboy
August 30th, 2011
10:08 am
jt,
“For those that worship at the alter of the state can’t/won’t see it.”
For those who can’t or won’t understand land use management and population density won’t see comparing Hong Kong to Atlanta is asinine.
Bosch
August 30th, 2011
10:08 am
“All I said was maybe it’s not the greatest idea to spend double digit millions on roads right now, maybe we should use the money to create jobs, those kinds of issues.”
No, Woodstock Mike, what you wrote was that it is classic Democratic philosophy to keep spending money on things proven to be a failure. An accusation that one, doesn’t make sense, and two, could never be measured, and three was an example of AmVet’s theory of RightWing Authorianism which I pointed out.
But don’t let me get in the way of a good hissy fit on your part.
USMC
August 30th, 2011
10:11 am
I think a GREAT start to REVERSING the negative stigma that has crippled MARTA for years would be to raise the level of Law enforcement activity on the trains.
Let’s clean our act up if we want to attract new rides and new rail lines.
In Europe, they don’t put up with near the level of disobedience, crime and garbage that is found on MARTA.
Just an idea…
Adam
August 30th, 2011
10:11 am
And let’s start with the state, federal, county, and city employees driving into downtown Atlanta.
Percentage of workers in Atlanta who are public employees: 13.2%
Yeah, that’ll fix it!
Aquagirl
August 30th, 2011
10:15 am
I like your thinking. If you’re a public employee suckling up to the government teat then you ride public transportation.
Or you’re a MSNBC employee, deliberately confusing innocent men and making them wonder about if you’re “dominant” when you’re…oh, never mind.
USMC
August 30th, 2011
10:15 am
Adam, you might ad the word NARCISSISTIC when your shrink asks you:
“What seems to be your problem?”
Get over yourself, I asked you a simple question; not a big deal.
You changed your original statement that’s all.
And don’t worry about “offering” me anything, sounds like you have bigger issues than little ole me
Uncle Jed
August 30th, 2011
10:18 am
Mass transit would have been a better choice…
President Obama’s accused drunken-driving uncle — who was busted after a near collision with a Framingham cop — has had a valid Social Security number for at least 19 years, despite being an illegal immigrant ordered to be deported back to Kenya, the Herald has learned.
The president’s 67-year-old uncle, Obama Onyango, has had a valid Massachusetts driver’s license and Social Security number since at least 1992, said Registry of Motor Vehicles spokesman Michael Verseckes.
Onyango, whose sister, Zeituni Onyango, made headlines when it was revealed she was an illegal immigrant living in public housing in South Boston, was wobbly legged, “slurring” and had “red and glassy eyes” when he was pulled over at 7 p.m. Wednesday on Waverly Street in Framingham…
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++=
Didn’t Jimmy Carter have some drunken relative, too? Wait for it…Obamabeer.
Adam
August 30th, 2011
10:18 am
USMC: You ask for evidence to back it up, I try to provide it. I didn’t change my original statement by telling you what kind of evidence I was providing to back it up. You’re being dishonest.
Joe Mama
August 30th, 2011
10:19 am
USMC — “In Europe, they don’t put up with near the level of disobedience, crime and garbage that is found on MARTA.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_riots_in_2011
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris_Riots
WOODSTOCK MIKE
August 30th, 2011
10:19 am
“The cons have coasted (literally) long enough on the investments of past generations, puttering around in their SUV’s with the teanut bumper sticker, bragging about their fiscal responsibility. Pay up, parasites.”
Wow, can you talk about rude and completely ignorant? Do you really think Democrats don’t drive SUV’s? And how many tea party bumper stickers do you see? I live in Cobb County, can’t say I’ve seen more than like 2 maybe. Aquagirl, if someone simply says something that you disagree with do you attack them like this? If you are a Democrat you make them look horrible. You asked how do people get to work, is that a real question? Uh, they drive their car you idiot. Don’t think there are many people that work in downtown Atlanta that don’t own a car you fool. This blog is really becoming vicious. Is the way that you communicated to me going to make others understand your point of views or do you even care? I’m getting back to work, you make people hate Democrats, is that your goal? I’m so happy that I don’t judge people the way that you do, this is why Democrats are looked at the way they are.
budman
August 30th, 2011
10:20 am
I think “blah blah blah” hit the nail on the head. As I worked on the MARTA CN-760 back in the 1980’s, I often worked with Chamblee Police Department for traffic control etc. The general feeling of law enforcement was dread. They knew crime would follow with the rail line. This is not my opinion it was from the top cop on down. There was a time I would walk anywhere in Chamblee after dark now I stay the heck out of Chambodia. Most posters I doubt have ever ridden a real public transportation system like DC Metro, Dart, Bart and the subways of NYC.If you have nothing to compare MARTA to I guess it’s great. I remember Atlanta when trolley cars were up and down Peachtree . This is the the largest hick town in America and there are people who want it to stay that way. If you have never been concerned for your safety on MARTA you haven’t ridden enough. I live in the country 50 miles from the ring around the Congo( I-285 ) and if we had a MARTA station close by I would have to lock my doors and turn on the alarm system and move further out in the sticks.
Atlanta goverment is like the young kid who wants to put $1500 set of wheels on a junker that’s maybe worth $ 500. The sewer system is a joke, the roads are in poor repair, Atl goverment can’t even get their property taxes right and they are going to manage a system like a REAL city…what a joke…bring back the idea of a ferris wheel…if Atlanta wants to continue to be stupid…less go all the way.And for the grammer police…yea I probable screwed up sum spel sum where.
Adam
August 30th, 2011
10:20 am
Uncle Jed: You get Con points for creatively twisting an article about Mass Transit in Atlanta to something anti-Obama.
jewcowboy
August 30th, 2011
10:20 am
Doggone/GA,
“Well, for one thing, it’s a tad hard to build a house, serve a restaurant customer, or clean someone house by telecommunting.”
Telecommuting is not for every job…it is simply a part of the solution. There are millions of jobs in the US that can be done remotely. For example, though we are based in Atlanta, our office manager works from Boston b/c her husband was transferred there. But, obviously, that solution would not work for our receptionist, so she is offered a free MARTA card in exchange for giving up her parking space. There are various solutions to the problem, and telework is simply one.
Jay
August 30th, 2011
10:21 am
USMC, again, I ride MARTA all the time and have for years. And I have never seen what you describe.
So I guess I have to ask: Do you ride MARTA regularly? What is the source of your allegation that the system is dirty and crime-ridden?
Marie
August 30th, 2011
10:22 am
Jewcowboy, Governor Deal and even Purdue may be talking telecommuting with their mouth, but, trust me it is not being put into action among eve the various state agencies. I have a sister who works for the state of Ga and depending on who the director of the agency you may or may not get alternative work options. The state of Ga even subsidizes the parking of some downtown employees and it’s actually cheaper than a monthly Marta pass. As Jay stated, there needs to be a shift in attitudes. And sadly some managers are stuck in two decades ago and want to see your bright smiling face in the place each day. Also we have built all these darn buildings everywhere and whatever will we do with all this real estate if folks worked from home 100% of the time. And you also have all the banks, restaurants, convenience stores, etc., that earn revenue on commuting employees or students.
So instead we keep getting sales tax options for mass transit or road building projects. But if we really wanted to improve air quality and the environment, there is no reason most employees and students could not do what they do from home.
Jay
August 30th, 2011
10:24 am
“I live in the country 50 miles from the ring around the Congo( I-285 ) and if we had a MARTA station close by I would have to lock my doors and turn on the alarm system and move further out in the sticks.”
“ring around the Congo?” Chambodia?
It’s a good thing racism is dead. It’s a good thing that racial prejudice doesn’t continue to cripple this state and how it operates. Because otherwise ….
Jefferson
August 30th, 2011
10:24 am
Those that don’t have a transportation problem have little concern for those that do, unless it will enrich them somehow — the new GOP.
jewcowboy
August 30th, 2011
10:25 am
jms,
“The second best way is to lay people off.”
Actually, telecommuters are more than 20% productive than their office bound counterparts. Far from a layoff, telecommuting is favored by Fortune 500 companies.
“If you’re a public employee suckling up to the government teat then you ride public transportation.”
Actually, Fulton County has one of the most robust telecommuting programs in the nation. The Federal gov’t is mandated by the Telework Enhancement Act to increase teleworkers, thus cutting overhead and improving efficiency.
Brosephus
August 30th, 2011
10:25 am
jms
I guess your analysis doesn’t account for all the private sector employees that don’t work on holidays. You know like bank employees, executive level employees, and others who don’t work on holidays. Epic fail on trying to smear public sector employees as there’s quite a few of us who work holidays, like Christmas, when everybody else is at home with their families.
Granny Godzilla
August 30th, 2011
10:25 am
Uncle Jed and Scout
Perhaps a gentle reminder is in order.
Google Columba Bush.
md
August 30th, 2011
10:26 am
“puttering around in their SUV’s with the teanut bumper sticker, bragging about their fiscal responsibility. Pay up, parasites.”
If one really thinks about that one, those driving SUV’s actually pay more……………….
oldtimer
August 30th, 2011
10:27 am
It is needed and necessary, but given what has been built in and around Atlanta, I do not trust GRTA or Marta to build anything truely useful to the Average Georgian. Many cities actually build rail and train service that goes to where people need to be.
jewcowboy
August 30th, 2011
10:27 am
stands for decibels,
“now I almost wish I still didn’t know about it”
Yeah, it received little local coverage, but it did make news nationally and internationally, as the rest shook their heads about how backwards we are.
Dirty Dawg
August 30th, 2011
10:28 am
Well ‘good little liberal’, this Liberal was around when they first voted for MARTA and when Cobb and the rest of the surrounding counties voted against it for no reason other than ‘race’…’gotta do what ever we can to keep ‘them’ outta here.’…oh yeah, and some selfishness too…’I ain’t goin’ to Atlanta, why should I pay for ‘them’ others to do it?’
I don’t ride MARTA much anymore because I no longer commute to anywhere, other than to see the grandkids, but if we are, as a thriving metropolitan area, to ‘continue’ to prosper, we must have an effective mass-transit system. The reason mass-transit is successful elsewhere is that there are ‘incentives’ for using it – usually in the form of ‘dis-incentives’ for not. In other words in the price of gasoline, and the price to park once you get there – ever seen what it costs to park a car in New York, Philadelphia or even San Francisco? In the end you’ll keep believing what you believe and we’ll keep believing what we do – and if things don’t change (in terms of some semblance of sane negotiations) this city, this state and this country is doomed…and all we’ll be doing is blaming the other guy and asking, ‘Was this a great country, or what?’
godless heathen
August 30th, 2011
10:28 am
I was checking the traffic conditions in NY, Boston, and Chicago, cities that, according to our bloggers here, have wonderful mass transit systems. Looks like traffic sucks at those places, too.