Transit investment a necessity for metro Atlanta
Based on the draft list approved earlier this month, 55 percent of the Atlanta region’s proposed transportation sales tax would be used to support mass transit, a fact that has generated considerable grumbling in some quarters.
Benita Dodd of the Georgia Public Policy Foundation, a conservative think tank, points out that just 5 percent of commuters in metro Atlanta regularly ride a bus or rail system, concluding that with its emphasis on transit, “the project list ignores this reality.”
State Sen. Lindsey Tippins, R-Cobb County, believes the list should favor road projects that deliver more immediate relief than longer-term transit projects. State Rep. Sharon Cooper, also a Cobb Republican, argues that the bond between Southerners and their cars is so strong that transit might not work here.
All in all, there’s a sense among many in metro Atlanta that transit is somehow experimental and untested and represents too much of a risk. I’d argue that the exact opposite is true. The real gamble, the real experiment, would be in refusing to make major investments in transit.
Look at who we are. According to the 2010 Census, the 20-county metro Atlanta region has grown to 5.3 million people, an increase of 1 million over the 2000 Census. By 2030 — less than 20 years from now — the region is predicted to host 7.4 million people, which by any measure makes us a major metropolitan region.
So here’s a challenge: Name a major metropolitan region anywhere in the industrialized world that has not made or is not making a major investment in transit. I’m aware of none.
Some people might challenge that claim by pointing to the example of Los Angeles. However, given that region’s severe problems with congestion and air quality, I’m not sure that helps the anti-transit case much. And the truth is, Los Angeles is now trying to hard to retrofit itself, adding subways, light rail and high-speed rail to its auto-centric system.
In addition, Los Angeles already boasts an extensive bus system. According to a new study by the Brookings Institution, Los Angeles ranks second in the country in the percentage of its population within reach of mass transit, behind only Honolulu. Metro Atlanta ranks 82nd out of 100 U.S. metro areas in that category, and most of the areas ranked below Atlanta, such as Chattanooga, Augusta and Baton Rouge, are considerably smaller.
In every human endeavor, changes in scale force changes in systems. In business, for example, small companies are forced to go outside their comfort zones and adopt new ways of doing things as they grow. The systems that worked when you have 10 employees or 100 employees don’t work when you have a payroll of 1,000. The same is true of metro regions. If metro Atlanta chooses to try to grow without a major investment in transit, it takes a course that no other region on the planet has found workable.
Furthermore, the transportation sales tax is our only feasible source of transit investment. Under Georgia’s constitution, revenue from the state’s gasoline tax is restricted to use for roads and bridges and can’t be used to fund transit. The Legislature has made it clear that it has no stomach for altering that provision, and it is even less likely to fund transit directly through general revenues.
(In fact, state leaders are so fearful of transit and taxes that earlier this month, they balked at moving the date of the transportation referendum to an allegedly more favorable date, lest they be accused of supporting such a noxious combination.)
It’s also important to remember that gasoline-tax revenue will continue to be earmarked for construction of highway projects, such as the proposed new toll lanes on I-75 through Cobb County. Taking those projects into account, total transportation spending in the metro region would continue to be weighted toward asphalt over transit.
– Jay Bookman
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456 comments Add your comment
USMC
August 30th, 2011
8:58 am
“USMC: I could point to how more white people by percentage are on welfare than black people. Would that help?”
Yeah, I think that one has been beaten to death as the usual knee-jerk drivel response.
I guess you don’t have the statistics for the Metro Atlanta area.
BLAH! BLAH! BLAH!
August 30th, 2011
8:58 am
Its usual that a city such as ours who has great weather,an enormous population, a huge suburban sprawl, and horrible air quality would not be 110 % behind a mass transit tax; personally, I am (have been) sick of sitting in traffic, digesting flumes, and pulling what hair I have left on my head because I leave TWO hours early just to (hopefully) make it twenty miles down the road in time for work, or any other function. Let’s face it, I am about to anger some of you, but this is yet another example of why so many consider us the cesspool region of the nation. Too many CONFEDERATE Conservatives (There is a difference between Confederate Conservatives and General Conservatives) still living in backwood areas only minutes from a changing region in a very diverse city.
Overall, I boldly will say that this is where our problem has lied for the last thirty years, back in the seventies, Atlanta should have been had a lot of the mass transit issues address, but instead, we were too busy discussing non-sense… I work in Gwinnett (Lawrenceville Area) and travel from Dekalb and I ask myself every morning WHY do so many people pout, scream, and mutter everyday on the way to work but will refuse public transportation year end and year out?
Ha! I will tell you why, it’s the same reason why the long time residents here didn’t want it years ago, they didn’t want it to lead to crime in their neighborhoods… but guess what… several neighborhoods in these parts ended up changing anyway… home invasions, murders, petty thefts, you name it… its here, just like everywhere around the metro area now.
Time to wake up Atlanta, speaking mainly to the people in the deep surburban and outskirt areas, the 60’s are over and they are not coming back, time to extend your arms to ‘good’ people that may not look. sound, and act like you… Mass transit is the only way to keep this city afloat, with all of the transplants and need for constant road construction, this city will bury itself without something more than car dealerships on every corner. Wake up my city, wake up America, and wake up World!!!!! And yes, I am a Conservative by the way…..
Jm
August 30th, 2011
8:59 am
Usinuk 8:45 keep rolling your eyes
If they go far enough back, maybe they can examine your brain
Cause that’s not what I said
Amazing how many times a die hard liberal can be wrong in one morning
USinUK
August 30th, 2011
9:00 am
“They’re planning to build pokey light rail which is less expensive but useless to a suburban commuter”
why is light rail “useless” to the commuter? London, Philly, DC (to an extent) and NY use a mix of light rail + subway and it works a TREAT (some rail has its own wifi so you can work while you ride)
Marie
August 30th, 2011
9:00 am
I work downtown and initially took MARTA for the first 5 or 6 years because my employer offered reduced transit cards. I was living on the West line so I was able to park at the H.E. Holmes station and get downtown in like 10 minutes. It was convenient, fast, and no much riff-raff on that particular line. I then moved to Fairburn and was on the South line and I just could not take it anymore. Can you say hoods, hoodlums, hooligans, thugs, and thuglettes galore? Also during the winter time I am very susceptible to catching a cold or flu and I cannot have folks standing over me whacking and coughing in my face. March of this year I had to ride the train because I dropped my car off for service and my mechanics shop is in walking distance of the East Point station. I felt like the character Monk and I wanted so bad to enclose myself in a bubble as this woman stood right over me coughing, sneezing, wheezing, blowing her nose, etc., — so disgusting!!!
Sorry but the only way I will take a MARTA train is for them to have first class cars that are reserved for healthy and civilized folks who just want to read, rest their eyes, and/or have civil conversations with their friends/co-workers/family. Parents with crying children, loud, obnoxious teenages, boys with sagging pants, ghetto girlz, drunks, bee-boppers with loud music, smelly panhandlers, etc., should ride on the other cars. Now of course MARTA should charge an additional fee (which I would be willing to pay) for those who want to ride without dealing with a bunch of nonesense. Until that happens I will continue to opt for driving to work.
Soothsayer
August 30th, 2011
9:00 am
Jay, I’m afraid I’m going to have to vote against this one. People have shown that they’re simply not interested in mass transit. Look at MARTA: an expensive money-pit that is becoming too costly for it’s customers.
Just the other day, I was reading about constructing a high-speed rail line between Chattanooga and Atlanta.
While this may sound like a good idea, one has to ask: how many people actually want to go from Atlanta to Chattanooga and vice versa, how much would it cost to use this rail compared to just driving there, and how much faster would it be than just driving there?
The same analysis holds true for high-speed rail between major cities: how much does it cost relative to just flying there, how much longer would it take via rail than flying, and how many people would rather travel by rail than by plane?
If we were to build a transit system, where would the tracks go?
Bosch
August 30th, 2011
9:01 am
“but she’s wrong thinking”
Reb,
What is “wrong” thinking? Isn’t that just, “I disagree with what she says?”
And “the first time” you saw Maddows in a sweat shirt and no make-up? Is this like a common thing for you?
Normal
August 30th, 2011
9:01 am
JohnnyReb
August 30th, 2011
8:57 am
That’s disappointing. I would have thought that you like to explore both sides of an issue. Rachel Maddow IS a wonderfully bright individual and has a great gift of communicating truth. That she also has made no bones about her sexual preference is just the icing on the cake. There need to be more commentators like her.
Daedalus
August 30th, 2011
9:01 am
I agree that transit is a necessity; I rode MARTA today — but I think the legislature’s approach is fundamentally flawed. We need to stop having publicly funded transit agencies compete with each other. That GRTA runs buses and competes for riders on the same routes as Cobb and Gwinnett Transit and MARTA is bone-headed.
That the legislature cannot figure out who has the authority to run transit services across county lines is also laughable, GRTA, ARC and GDOT can all run transit systems. We should pick one and have one transit provider for the suburbs and one for Fulton/DeKalb. Its unrealistic for the lightweights under the Gold Dome to merge MARTA with the suburban systems. Way too much heavy lifting for that.
Fix the governance issue and I’d vote for the tax even if all the money went to Gwinnett and Cobb. Leave it like it is and I’ll vote no.
USinUK
August 30th, 2011
9:01 am
jm – “I was saying that the calculation changed for good reason. And on that point you’re only 1/2 right”
so, you’re saying that I DIDN’T say the calculation changed, Mr. Reading-is-Fundamental?? you might want to go back downstairs and reread what I actually SAID rather than go by what the voices in your head tell you I said.
Granny Godzilla
August 30th, 2011
9:02 am
JohnnyReb
sure hope you’re not a scout leader or anything along those lines….
I'm Rick James Wa-Itch!
August 30th, 2011
9:02 am
Stress relief ha! – what is more fun than sitting for hours in a hot car in thick traffic just so you can drive 15 miles in 75 minutes? Remember when the ice storm hit atlanta in january? Remember all those trucks and cars stuck on 285? How can you take that kind of JOY from your daily commute all in the name of stress relief?
Without stress, no one would need psychoanalysis, alcohol or baseball to put them in a neurological coma — then the psycho people would be out of business and they’d take the Braves outta Atlanta. Is that what you want? Are you happy now?
USinUK
August 30th, 2011
9:06 am
Bosch – my Tuesday-after-bank-holiday-Monday present for you
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/picturegalleries/uknews/8730179/Notting-Hill-Carnival-Hundreds-of-thousands-attend-Europes-biggest-street-festival.html
(pay no attention to the stabbing victim pics)
JohnnyReb
August 30th, 2011
9:06 am
Hello Bosch – Granny brought up the Maddow piece where she is in front of the Hoover Dam. I think it was actually a different piece where when I first saw it I was trying to figure out who is that guy? Then it dawned on me, that’s Maddow. Yea, she at first glance looked like a boy. Why she would want to look like that on Natl TV is beyond me.
Yes, you are correct. Wrong thinking can be interpreted to be I don’t agree with what she says. I don’t agree with any on the Obama network (MSNBC).
Jay
August 30th, 2011
9:06 am
Daedalus, they can’t fix the governance issue because it would require putting MARTA in the same organization and under the same leadership as the suburban transit agencies. And we just can’t have that because, well, MARTA has cooties or something.
I’m also glad you brought up the GRTA buses. The state Legislature subsidizes express bus service from the suburbs into the city with no controversy, yet it refuses to subsidize MARTA. What’s that about I wonder?
I'm Rick James Wa-Itch!
August 30th, 2011
9:08 am
Yeah, I think that one has been beaten to death as the usual knee-jerk drivel response.
I guess you don’t have the statistics for the Metro Atlanta area.
You know what’d be great? If YOU look up the info and informed that Adam guy about it! Wouldn’t that be cool?
Butch Cassidy
August 30th, 2011
9:10 am
Growing up in Utah, I thought that state was about as backward and non-forward thinking as it got. Then I discovered Georgia. Total population of Utah is less than 2 million with about 800,000 living in the Ogden – SLC area, and it’s a very suburbanized region. They implemented light rail prior to the 2002 games because they knew that the highway system just wasn’t going to cut it. Guess what, after the Olympics wer over, they continued to expand the rail system, and it is HEAVILY used today. You can go from Ogden to Sandy which is the same distance as Dalton to Atlanta on the train. You can go pretty much anywherre in the city on the rail line. It works, if it’s planned correctly, is run efficiently and is promoted effectively. Run a train from downtown up 75, 85 and 400 and see what happens to traffic on those interstates.
Jm
August 30th, 2011
9:11 am
Usinuk if you think the calculation hasn’t changed over the last 80 years, then wow, just wow, u really r clueless and I can’t help u
As far as transit, yeah of course they do.
But the LIRR doesn’t fo a pokey top speed of 25 mph
Citizen of the World
August 30th, 2011
9:11 am
Even if you don’t think you’ll ever ride MARTA or transit, wouldn’t you want to support it so others could ride and leave more room on the road for you?
And believe it or not, people will ride it, even if you won’t. Back a few years ago when gas was over $4 a gallon, one of my co-workers started riding the bus from down around Newnan. After a month or so, she said she didn’t care if gas went down to $.50 a gallon, she would still ride the bus because she like the downtime.
stands for decibels
August 30th, 2011
9:12 am
tell that to the folks who live in suburban Maryland and DC
tell that to the folks who live on the Mainline outside of Philly
tell that to the folks who live outside of NY
but UnU, those places are–what was GLL’s phrase?–”incredibly densely populated”.
Which is Southren for “I actually enjoy having to drive my half-ton pickemup five miles to go to the bathroom. It’s great, really, it is.”
Adam
August 30th, 2011
9:12 am
USMC: You can start here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Atlanta
No Taxes!
August 30th, 2011
9:12 am
Billions in taxes for mass transit? No way. A small % of people would ride mass transit from other suburbs. If developers want to build subways, trams, trains—then raise capital from private investors and charge a price that will provide a return on investment. Don’t seize money from taxpayers that will never use the system. The government gravy train is over. Taxes are too high.
jt
August 30th, 2011
9:13 am
Those poooooooooor Hong Kongians.
Public transportation is left up to the ………….private sector.
When are they EVER gonna move up to MARTA standards?
Hong Kong has an extensive train network. Public transport trains are operated by the MTR Corporation Limited. The MTR operates the metro network within inner urban Hong Kong, Kowloon Peninsula and northern part of Hong Kong Island with newly developed areas, Tsuen Wan, Tseung Kwan O, Tung Chung, Hong Kong Disneyland, the Hong Kong International Airport, the northeastern and northwestern parts of the New Territories. The Hong Kong Tramways operates a tram service exclusively on northern Hong Kong Island. The Peak Tram connects Central, Hong Kong’s central business district, with the Victoria Peak.
.
I read somewhere that the poorest Hong Konerian would SCOFF at a MARTA train.
Jm
August 30th, 2011
9:14 am
I’m also glad you brought up the GRTA buses. The state Legislature subsidizes express bus service from the suburbs into the city with no controversy, yet it refuses to subsidize MARTA. What’s that about I wonder?
I’m not saying it’s fair. But it does have something to do with cost. Marta subsidies are several hundred million every year. Those buses cost grta a pittance in comparison
DannyX
August 30th, 2011
9:16 am
Jay why should people living in DeKalb vote for what amounts to a 2 cent transportation tax?
The Clifton corridor rail line is basically an Atlanta project, the I-20 bus line insulting.
Butch Cassidy
August 30th, 2011
9:16 am
No Taxes – “The government gravy train is over. Taxes are too high.”
Jay, for a future article, could you do a study as to how vehemently people opposed taxes prior to the current batch of mouthpieces coming on television and screaming to the masses that they were being taxed too much? It seems like it was pretty much accepted albeit grudgingly that taxes were and are a necessary evil in order for the country to function. However, it seem like just in the last few years we’ve been inundated with the NO TAXES mantra. Maybe it’s just me.
Adam
August 30th, 2011
9:16 am
BTW these demographics debunk some of the other arguments I have seen so far. For example:
“Atlanta is the core city of the ninth most populous United States metropolitan area at 5,268,860″
9th most populous? And you guys are still going on about how no one is around to use the system?
Jay
August 30th, 2011
9:17 am
jt, from the MTR website:
“The MTR Corporation was established in 1975 as the Mass Transit Railway Corporation with a mission to construct and operate, under prudent commercial principles, an urban metro system to help meet Hong Kong’s public transport requirements. The sole shareholder was the Hong Kong Government.”
Adam
August 30th, 2011
9:18 am
Butch Cassidy: However, it seem like just in the last few years we’ve been inundated with the NO TAXES mantra. Maybe it’s just me.
Just you and the talk radio listeners and their insistence on repeating everything they hear on such programs as though they are brainwashed….
Road Scholar
August 30th, 2011
9:18 am
“Why she would want to look like that on Natl TV is beyond me.”
Because she iscomfortable in her own skin and does not need to “beat her chest” and insult others that she disagrees with. Its called intelect!
Bosch
August 30th, 2011
9:18 am
“Why she would want to look like that on Natl TV is beyond me.”
I dunno Reb, I kind of respect women who aren’t afraid to be who they are on TV, like Jamie Lee Curtis – and that expose she did a few years back where she was photographed with no make-up, etc. I think we focus on the wrong things alot of time.
It’s one reason I like to watch BBC America — it seems (and maybe USinUK can back me up here) that in Britain and other European countries, they have women on TV who actually look like women, not some stick of bones and flesh with lots o make-up.
Anywho…just off tangent a bit.
And not to be picky, but it’s usually quite dangerous to me, to think that if someone has a different opinion than you, that is “wrong.” It’s just different. There is no “right” and “wrong.” That’s all relative.
1811/0311
August 30th, 2011
9:18 am
Jay:
Two questions.
1) Can you please tell me which post(s) got Fred banned for the week?
2) If you are born by C-Section, as you disqualified to run for President? You know, not a “natural born” citizen?
Jay
August 30th, 2011
9:19 am
The post is no longer up, Scout. Fred instructed another blogger to perform certain crude sexual acts ….
Citizen of the World
August 30th, 2011
9:19 am
Billions in taxes for defense? No way. Not that many people are in the army!
Billions of taxes for education? No way. My kids are grown now!
Billions of taxes for fire and police protection? No way. I live in a gated community!
Billions of taxes for environmental protection? No way. I don’t breathe the same air or drink the same water as all you little people!
Billions of taxes to provide a safety net for the poor and elderly? No way. Let them just eat out of garbage cans and die already!
Billions of taxes for roads? No way. I levitate to get where I’m going!
Gordon
August 30th, 2011
9:19 am
I’m certainly not an expert on this subject, but it seems like the problem is that everyone works everywhere and everyone lives everywhere. How do you build a system that goes everywhere? There is probably some way I could get to work using mass transit now, but it would probably double the time it takes me to get there. I choose to go in and leave early (I know this isn’t an option for many people) and telecommute.
Jay, do you work from home?
1811/0311
August 30th, 2011
9:20 am
P.S.
“Are Are U.S. Sen. Marco Rubio of Florida and Louisiana Gov. Bobby Jindal natural-born citizens of the United States, and thus eligible for the presidency?”
USinUK
August 30th, 2011
9:20 am
“Usinuk if you think the calculation hasn’t changed over the last 80 years, then wow, just wow, u really r clueless and I can’t help u”
you really do need help with your reading comprehension. seriously. find a tutor.
1811/0311
August 30th, 2011
9:20 am
Fair enough.
Granny Godzilla
August 30th, 2011
9:20 am
jt
I might add that the Hong Kong system is BEAUTIFUL.
Terrific signage and maps make it easy to use – even for Grannys
from America.
Adam
August 30th, 2011
9:21 am
Gordon: Perhaps you could ask the countries of Europe to answer that one.
Brosephus
August 30th, 2011
9:21 am
I see all the usual points have been made…
As for me, as long as the transportation plan is left as is, I’m voting HELL NO!!!! If Cobb Co wants to pave their roads, then tax Cobb Co drivers who will use them. In the 11 years I’ve lived in the metro area, I don’t think I’ve averaged 1 trip a year thru Cobb Co, and I have to drive thru Cobb if I’m going home to AL or to Rome, GA.
The metro area is missing out on major money by being complete jackasses about transit. If you don’t wanna use mass transit, then don’t use it. Just realize how much money you’re losing by not giving visitors to Atlanta access to all the tourist attractions available to them. Unless one rents a car and decided to fight traffic, a conventioneer in downtown Atlanta isn’t spending a dime at Six Flags, Stone Mtn., the Mall of GA, Road Atlanta, Kennesaw Battlefield, or anywhere else we wanna get those tourist dollars to help our income.
Until people stop to realize that, then we’ll continue to be stuck in traffic. Getting those tourists around better to spend more only helps subsidize the transit system even more. Until people get serious about thinking beyond themselves, we won’t get anything done.
Jay @ 8:38
Third… GLL is the new Black Leader, didn’t you know that??? Why else would he be the one to know what we think, what we do, why we think and do, and what’s best for us…
Jay
August 30th, 2011
9:22 am
No, jm, it has nothing to do with cost.
The per-rider subsidy for GRTA buses is probably quite a bit larger than for MARTA.
USMC
August 30th, 2011
9:22 am
“You know what’d be great? If YOU look up the info and informed that Adam guy about it! Wouldn’t that be cool?”–RICK
Hey Rick, I didn’t make the initial statement. That is why I was asking if Adam had any stats to clarify HIS declaration. (you sound like an angry MARTA rider)
And RACHEL MADCOW== ANGRY, ANTI-diversity, Leftwing, Hate Speech
Jm
August 30th, 2011
9:22 am
Adam 9:16 Wrong metric
The metric transit planners us is density, not total population
And on the density list, Atlanta doesn’t even make it on the list of top 25 densest cities
1811/0311
August 30th, 2011
9:23 am
Granny:
And you don’t have to worry about getting mugged.
jt
August 30th, 2011
9:23 am
Imagine this.Private concerns in business for profit.
Never happen in the A.—————————-
In Hong Kong?…………….you betcha————–
The public light bus (PLB) was introduced in 1969 with a view to regulating the illegal operation of minibuses at the time. The total number of PLB’s has been restricted to 4350 since 1976. The limit is reviewed every 5 years and was expected to be extended for a further 5-year period from June 2011 following consultation between the Transport Department and the PLB trade. At the end of 2010 there were 4348 licenced public light buses (PLB’s). Daily patronage is about 1.8 million passenger trips. The seating capacity was originally 14 but was increased to 16 in 1988. In 1972 the government introduced the PLB scheduled service (ie Green Minibus or “GMB”) as against the “Red Minibus” (RMB) which has no scheduled route and can adjust services and fares to suit demand. Green Minibus routes, schedules and fares are controlled by the Transport Department. PLB’s also less commonly referred to as “Maxicabs”. PLB’s serve most areas of Hong Kong Island, Kowloon and the New Territories with just a few restrictions to areas of operation. In October 2008 one operator with a fleet of over 300 minibuses won permission to seek a judicial review of the current government restriction on number of buses and number of seats and this is still pending.
Doggone/GA
August 30th, 2011
9:23 am
“Jay, do you work from home”
Sure he does, that’s why he’s been riding MARTA for 20 years. Just goes around in a circle and ends up back at home.
zeke
August 30th, 2011
9:23 am
If transit is so important, MAKE IT PAY IT’S OWN WAY! DO NOT CONTINUE THE ABSURD MARTA TYPE TAX FOR OPERATING THE SYSTEM! IF YOU WANT SOME SMALL TAX FROM THE GENERAL PUBLIC TO MAINTAIN FACILITIES, FINE! BUT, NO TAX MONEY TO KEEP PAYING FOR MONEY LOSING OPERATIONS JUST SO YOU CAN GIVE REDUCED-SUBSIDIZED FARES TO ENTICE RIDERS! It is bad enough the the government uses tax money to subsidize things like electric cars-solar energy-wind energy, etc.! If these things cannot be self funding, close them down, including marta!
Jay
August 30th, 2011
9:23 am
Gordon, I often do.
And when I don’t I take MARTA.
Butch Cassidy
August 30th, 2011
9:24 am
Anyone remember the 1996 Olympics when we were asked to utilize public transportation while the games were in progress? Imagine that, only with more destinations and a more efficient rail system. Tell you what, you can dream about it tonight while sitting in your car on any of the major interstate systems. Trust me, you’ll have PLENTY of time.
JohnnyReb
August 30th, 2011
9:24 am
Granny – you have some serious common sense flaws. There is a Natl TV talking head who as it turns out is apparently gay. She dresses non-feminine to do a piece off her set. I say at first glance she looked like a boy, and you turn that into me being kept away from boy scouts. If Maddow is in fact gay, I guarantee she wants to be dominant. I suggest you work on not letting your political ideologies interfere with the real world.
Adam
August 30th, 2011
9:24 am
5.8231511254019292604501607717042: “Are Are U.S. Sen. Marco Rubio of Florida and Louisiana Gov. Bobby Jindal natural-born citizens of the United States, and thus eligible for the presidency?”
OH NOW I GET IT! It’s not that people who are anti-Obama and think he wasn’t born here are racist, it’s just that he’s a Democrat!
You have Marco Rubio, Allen West, Bobby Jindal…. who has a plantation now?
Talking Head
August 30th, 2011
9:24 am
seems like the government is proposing to create another false demand on “good intentions”
if mass transit was truly wanted by the people of the metro area, it would have already happend
1811/0311
August 30th, 2011
9:25 am
………….. so, if you have two close relatives living in the country illegally should you recuse yourself from any decisions involving illegal immigrants?
USinUK
August 30th, 2011
9:25 am
“it seems (and maybe USinUK can back me up here) that in Britain and other European countries, they have women on TV who actually look like women”
Bosch speaks true – not just the newsreaders, but even people on TV shows look like (gasp!) PEOPLE instead of supermodels. I mean, as much as I like CSI Miami, I’m sorry, but people just don’t look like that in real life. They look like this: http://www.itv.com/scottandbailey/
Jay
August 30th, 2011
9:25 am
Scout, you’ve been posting that same tired piece of bait for days now and nobody has bit.
Jm
August 30th, 2011
9:25 am
Jay 9:22 no doubt, on a per rider basis. I was talking whole $s
But yes, when u only have 10 riders, the per rider cost is probably pretty ugly
Adam
August 30th, 2011
9:25 am
zeke: It is bad enough the the government uses tax money to subsidize things like oil and gas, etc
FYT
mike "hussein" smith
August 30th, 2011
9:25 am
“By 2030 — less than 20 years from now — the region is predicted to host 7.4 million people, which by any measure makes us a major metropolitan region.” By today’s standard, that might be true. But that statement assumes the standard will remain stagnant as current major metropolitan regions grow, and I don’t see that happening. I wonder, though, how those rightwing wrongies will feel about transit such as MARTA when the price of gasoline goes to $15 a gallon.
1811/0311
August 30th, 2011
9:25 am
Adam:
I say if the shoe fits wear it ……………… regardless of party.
Granny Godzilla
August 30th, 2011
9:26 am
zeke
how about this….
we make all transit PAY ITS OWN WAY.
Expect to get a bill for roads and bridges and sidewalks and expressways and pipelines and parking…..
Bosch
August 30th, 2011
9:26 am
Rick James,
Every time you ask a wingnut to back up their accusations of the scores of people who get mugged, beaten, and robbed on MARTA, there are the sounds of crickets.
1811/0311
August 30th, 2011
9:26 am
Jay:
Which one? I do a lot of casting to you libs.
jt
August 30th, 2011
9:26 am
Jay——————don’t forget the salient phrase————–” under prudent commercial principles, “.
.
That’s called profit……………………..for those that consider the word profit as a sin.
JohnnyReb
August 30th, 2011
9:27 am
Bosch – I agree with the wrong thinking remark. I’ll work on that.
Jay
August 30th, 2011
9:28 am
Does the street outside Zeke’s home pay its own way? Is there a toll booth at each end charging for its use, or do all the taxpayers in his city and county pitch in to pave that street on his behalf?
Adam
August 30th, 2011
9:28 am
5.8231511254019292604501607717042: Which one? I do a lot of casting to you libs
Your mother must be so proud!
Lyle, the MARTA guy
August 30th, 2011
9:28 am
As the spokesman for MARTA, I’ve been reading Jay’s excellent post, and his readers’ comments, with great interest. I’d like to hear more from those of you who oppose transit and invite you to contact me directly at lvharris@itsmarta.com. Your criticisms of transit, in general, and of MARTA, in particular, deserve a serious response at a time when our region is facing critical decisions about our future. I’d like enlarge this discussion in hopes of getting past some of the delusional fictions about transit and instead deal with the facts of why MARTA matters to you, even if you NEVER ride it. Thanks.
Aquagirl
August 30th, 2011
9:29 am
Wrong thinking can be interpreted to be I don’t agree with what she says.
There’s your sign….
Brosephus
August 30th, 2011
9:29 am
“The MTR Corporation was established in 1975 as the Mass Transit Railway Corporation with a mission to construct and operate, under prudent commercial principles, an urban metro system to help meet Hong Kong’s public transport requirements. The sole shareholder was the Hong Kong Government.”
A government funded group masquerading as a private sector company!!!
Granny Godzilla
August 30th, 2011
9:29 am
johnnyreb
she dresses professionally….not like some over made-up, bleach blonde,cleavage exposing TV tart.
Again…If you think Rachel looks like a boy, I think you have issues….
jasper
August 30th, 2011
9:30 am
I think the current strategy is working fine: Don’t fix the plumbing, have the worst public schools, let the congestion fester, keep the crime rate high – all in an effort to drive growth outside the perimeter. Atlanta is really not that great of a city folks, nothing particularly striking, historic, or beautiful about it. It’s too hot in the summer and too tense the rest of the year. Better mass transit will not improve much.
I'm Rick James Wa-Itch!
August 30th, 2011
9:30 am
2) If you are born by C-Section, as you disqualified to run for President? You know, not a “natural born” citizen?
More of those “special” comments. Some of you guys could give Jane Goodall a really great thesis on evolution in the southern states. (Not you — just some of those OTHER guys)
Butch Cassidy
August 30th, 2011
9:31 am
Jay – “Does the street outside Zeke’s home pay its own way? ”
apparently Zeke lives in the “Government Free Zone” or GFZ. Where everyone looks out for themselves, and everything is magically paid for without the need for pesky taxation.
1811/0311
August 30th, 2011
9:31 am
I’m Rick James Wa-Itch! :
LOL ! Come on ………… lighten up.
Jm
August 30th, 2011
9:32 am
Jay 8:28 property taxes are (or used to be) a pretty close proxy
I know many a south Georgian, that when the become annexed and levied local muni taxes, says well now u have to pave my dirt road. And it makes sense
Jay you’re going to have to try again on this one
If you would just also advocate for more expanded toll road as well, I think people would call that a balanced approach
Bosch
August 30th, 2011
9:32 am
USinUK,
We have to be in your land to see that video….
Granny Godzilla
August 30th, 2011
9:33 am
Zeke
There’s a big pothole on 324 in front of the Kroger entrance, can you get out and fill it today?
It nearly sucked in a mini cooper.
1811/0311
August 30th, 2011
9:33 am
This one got buried:
“KABUL, Afghanistan – Sixty-six U.S. troops have died in Afghanistan so far this month, making August the deadliest month for American forces in the nearly decade-long war.”
USinUK
August 30th, 2011
9:33 am
Bosch – 9:32 – did you see my earlier link? carnival, babbee.
Jm
August 30th, 2011
9:35 am
Lyle good outreach to opposition. Kudos
Citizen of the World
August 30th, 2011
9:35 am
Mass Transit equals less congestion, cleaner air, enhanced quality of life and a more attractive business climate — valuable outcomes that should benefit everyone, regardless of whether they ride the system or not.
Mass Transit in the long term equals saving $$ and making $$! Maybe it’s the “long term” that’s the hang up for some people, but not everything happens overnight.
Bosch
August 30th, 2011
9:35 am
USinUK,
Yes! I did! I had no idea there was such a carnival in the UK! And geez, you people have some knife/stabbing issues!
ND
August 30th, 2011
9:36 am
The idea that nobody will use transit because only 5% use transit now is such a disingenuous argument that I would be shocked if the people making it didn’t realize it themselves. Only 5% use transit now because the transit system is so sparse and inadequate. If you could actually get everywhere you wanted to go using the transit system, that number would jump considerably. I know if I could hop on a train in Stone Mountain to get to Atlantic Station, Turner Field, etc. I would.
JohnnyReb
August 30th, 2011
9:36 am
Granny – there was nothing professional about her dress in the Hoover Dam piece. And, I think Maddow would like me thinking at first glance she looked like a boy.
Jay
August 30th, 2011
9:36 am
I don’t get your argument, jm.
You concede that property taxes are used to build and maintain Zeke’s street? In other words, it’s a means of transportation that doesn’t pay its own way and in fact has to be subsidized by taxpayers who in most cases will never use it.
You agree?
Adam
August 30th, 2011
9:37 am
Citizen of the World: Maybe it’s the “long term” that’s the hang up for some people, but not everything happens overnight.
But… but… Bachmann promises she can turn the economy around in 3 months with ONLY TAX CUTS!
stands for decibels
August 30th, 2011
9:37 am
A government funded group masquerading as a private sector company!!!
Well, government built the lines, it has a private company supposedly running things, but that privatisation wasn’t without its controversies, it’s only being doing so for about ten years and I suspect the jury’s still out on how well it’s actually doing as opposed to having direct government oversight.
Thing is, it’s something jt coulda figured out with about three seconds’ worth of skimming the mtr wiki page. I guess he and others were desperate to find something in answer to Jay’s challenge.
For the record, nobody has. and nobody will, either.
Bosch
August 30th, 2011
9:37 am
And it is my opinion that if you oppose mass transit, you are only supporting the terrorists.
JK
But I do believe you are not serious about weaning ourselves off foreign oil, which in and of itself has a whole plethora of implications — none of which are positive for our country.
AmVet
August 30th, 2011
9:37 am
“Third… GLL is the new Black Leader, didn’t you know that??? Why else would he be the one to know what we think, what we do, why we think and do, and what’s best for us…”
This morning there was a rather ugly insinuation regarding “muggers” on MARTA. As is well documented here, the neo-cons inevitably stand up for each other when challenged on their covert racism, but this seems to be a sad fact of this new “conservatism”. Or as I call it – faux conservatism.
Understanding Republican groupthink on matters of race is very difficult.
These articles were pretty enlightening:
A 1996 study on the relationship between racism and conservatism found that the correlation was stronger among more educated individuals, though specifically anti-Black racism did not increase. They also found that the correlation between racism and conservatism could be entirely accounted for by their mutual relationship with social dominance orientation. The authors concluded that opposition to affirmative action, especially among more highly educated conservatives, was better explained by social dominance orientation than by principled conservatism.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Dominance_Orientation
According to research by Altemeyer, right-wing authoritarians tend to exhibit cognitive errors and symptoms of faulty reasoning. Specifically, they are more likely to make incorrect inferences from evidence and to hold contradictory ideas that result from compartmentalized thinking. They are also more likely to uncritically accept insufficient evidence that supports their beliefs, and they are less likely to acknowledge their own limitations.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_Wing_Authoritarianism
Hypocrite Hunter
August 30th, 2011
9:37 am
Your premise is that “transit is a necessity”. Implicit in that premise is that transit is a necessity “for me”, but not a single argument has been propounded that suggests that these transportation projects will improve my life or generate any return on the investment of my resources. It is possible (albeit unlikely) that throwing nearly limitless resources into a cess pool of regulation and politically correct social engineering might generate some sort of positive result…but for the foreseeable future, it would be cheaper just to give every current rider a limo than to ignore Adam Smith’s invisible hand. Good luck, though.
Adam
August 30th, 2011
9:38 am
JohnnyReb: Why do you hate Rachel Maddow?
Bosch
August 30th, 2011
9:39 am
ND,
It’s the same argument from our wingnutty friends about education. Let’s slash it to the bone and then bitch about how bad it sucks (just as a guise to push our real agenda of privatizing it).
Aquagirl
August 30th, 2011
9:40 am
If Maddow is in fact gay, I guarantee she wants to be dominant.
The skeerd-uv-teh-gayz crowd always has these moments, where their secret fantasies pop up, er, out.
Really, JohnnyReb, that’s just bizarre.
Marie
August 30th, 2011
9:40 am
Sorry GrannyGodzilla and much love to you but Rachel Maddow looks like Rob Lowe.
Adam
August 30th, 2011
9:41 am
Hypocrite Hunter: but not a single argument has been propounded that suggests that these transportation projects will improve my life or generate any return on the investment of my resources.
Jobs. More people will be able to get to work faster and easier if it is expanded/schedules increased. They also, one day because they now have better jobs and more choice in jobs, will be able to buy a car and get off this particular government t*t. Right?
MrLiberty
August 30th, 2011
9:41 am
Jay – So invest! Keep your hands off my money however. Its always easy to spend other people’s money isn’t it Jay??
Granny Godzilla
August 30th, 2011
9:41 am
scout?
buried?
it’s the headline at Huffington Post.
i often read the backs of cereal boxes, but never for news.
larry
August 30th, 2011
9:41 am
To everyone that is concerned about ridership when and if light rail and transit move into the suburbs, there are about 25 people from up here in Northeast Georgia who go to Toccoa to catch Amtrack to take them to work in Atlanta. Yep , 25.
If we dont start doing something about it, we won’t have to do anything about it. Most of the major businesses will start leaving town.
As far as toll roads, i will not pay for something i have already paid for three times already. It is a bad waste of money and time.
Jm
August 30th, 2011
9:42 am
Jay 9:36 my argument is that property taxes (were) are a reasonable proxy for tolls. Everyone who lives in a house pays property taxes. Leaving homestead exemptions out for a moment, property taxe paid for the roads. It was a logical, more efficient, and a fair way to fund roads. More so than putting up a toll every 50 feet of course.
Property taxes were set up to pay for roads and every who lives somewhere pays them. Make sense now?