Perry’s scorn for Social Security won’t be issue in GOP primary

Normal

August 26th, 2011
9:29 am

It doesn’t matter. The GOP have nothing to put up. Obama will win by default because the GOP won’t be able to sway the progressive and independent votes…

Fred

August 26th, 2011
9:30 am

Is it too early for the Drive home thread?

Zedd

August 26th, 2011
9:31 am

Say it ain’t so Libs: Carney claims that Perry called for secession rated False by PolitiFact. I seem to recall several here beating that drum themselves. Don’t let your vitriol get in the way of the facts as you so often say to the Conservatives here.

“Our conclusion was that in a politically theatrical moment, Perry stated an old (and factually incorrect) claim that Texas retains the right to leave the union. That is not the same as his saying giddyap, I want to leave. Perry didn’t call for secession then and hasn’t since.”
“We rate Carney’s statement False.”

http://www.politifact.com/texas/statements/2011/aug/17/jay-carney/white-house-press-secretary-says-perry-wanted-sece/

Spin it anyway you want. Facts are facts and those whose said Perry wanted to secession were wrong. A spade is still a spade.

retired early

August 26th, 2011
9:32 am

It’s like singing “My country tis of thee to a hip hop beat.

Jay, a perfect example.

stands for decibels

August 26th, 2011
9:34 am

Jay, I think your bit of digging into the weeds (and “music and lyrics”) of Romney’s likely approach is spot on.

However, the shorter answer as to why “Perry’s scorn for Social Security won’t be issue in GOP primary” is quite simple:

the GOP is FUBAR.

Zedd

August 26th, 2011
9:34 am

Dang stubby fingers! *”Wanted to succeed”

George P. Burdell

August 26th, 2011
9:35 am

This perfectly illustrates the point of why politics becomes so infuriating. While one can argue that only minor changes need to be made to Social Security to keep it viable, Medicare is a complete fiscal disaster that is looming over this country. But to try and address the problem is political suicide even for most proclaimed conservatives. When only 18% of people think cuts need to be made to Medicare, we have a real problem. Even if we were to contain medical costs at current levels, which is a dream in itself, we are quickly heading towards big trouble because of the overall aging of the country. What is most likely to happen is people under 50 will continue to pay over 15% over their salary annually, the debt will continue to rise each year, and at some point it will all collapse on itself and we will be the ones left dealing with a bankrupt country and no, or very reduced, retirement benefits. It will also be pretty difficult to save on your own because you are already giving up 15% before you even get started. Jay, I agree with your analysis of how it is likely to play out in the primaries, but you are also illustrating why it is such an untouchable issue and you are in your own way doing nothing but contributing to pushing this problem down the road. This country needs to have some serious discussions about our future and when you pull this nonsense you are no better than the people you criticize about playing politics.

stands for decibels

August 26th, 2011
9:36 am

Carney claims that Perry called for secession rated False by PolitiFact.

BFD. Perry’s secessionist dalliances are fair game, and we’ll be beating him like a yard dog with them (and many other fatal character errors) if the GOP is stupid enough to trot this guy out in the general election against Obama.

md

August 26th, 2011
9:36 am

You’re right, it really doesn’t matter………for those in the gop base will vote the r regardless of who the r is……..same with the d………….

It will depend on what the i’s think about the 2 choices………..they already know what they get with one of them………they just have to figure out if they want to change it for the unknown………….

Brosephus

August 26th, 2011
9:37 am

It would be like standing in front of the GOP convention and singing “My Country T’is of Thee” to a hiphop beat.

If Karl Rove can rap and dance, Romney should be able to at least pull off the “My Country” to a hiphop beat.

jm

August 26th, 2011
9:40 am

“64 percent of Americans said they oppose making “major changes in Social Security and Medicare” as a means of addressing the debt problem”

Indicating that 64 percent of Americans don’t understand the nature of the problem.

carlosgvv

August 26th, 2011
9:40 am

It’s likely that Perry will try as much as possible to be a George W. Bush clone. Like Bush, he will come up with some ill thought out scheme to “reform” Social Security and the GOP faithful will sing his prases as the next political Messiah. Since the American political system is built on a platform of deception and lies, the next election will go to whoever is best at putting one over on the American people. If History teaches anything, it is that the people will eventuall wise up and demand and get totally new and different political systems and leadership.

Bosch

August 26th, 2011
9:40 am

Yeap Zedd, I have to agree with stands on that. I know, color you shocked, but Perry has provided so much more fodder than secessionist talk, I mean, “Social Security is a Ponzi scheme” is way better material to call him on.

You don’t mess with old people.

Bosch

August 26th, 2011
9:41 am

Then by all means, jm, enlighten us as to “the problem according to YOU.”

Brosephus

August 26th, 2011
9:42 am

Jay

I used to do a few things in the studio. I could probably work up a great track for Romney if he’s ever game. I wouldn’t even charge to do it. I’d gladly donate my time and effort for free just to see it.

jm

August 26th, 2011
9:42 am

Um, Jay, no one is going to be running saying that no changes need to made to Medicare and SS. And that includes Obama.

I guess I am leaving Dennis Kucinich out of course….

Guy Incognito

August 26th, 2011
9:44 am

“Social Security, he wrote, is a “Ponzi scheme,” “a crumbling monument to the failure of the New Deal” created “at the expense of respect for the Constitution and limited government.”

Preach On!!!!!!!!!!!!

Zedd

August 26th, 2011
9:44 am

Stands, go for it. It ain’t like Obama’s going to be able to run on his spectacular record or anything. The Republican nominee won’t be Romney, who sits back and refuses to engage or throw a punch. Perry’s rhetoric will certainly be able to go toe to toe with Obama’s anybody else’s fault but mine defense. The election will simply come down to a vote for more of the same failed policies or time to give someone else a turn.

AmVet

August 26th, 2011
9:44 am

Dancin’ fools.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yUe_Pi8NfT4

And Rove finally getting enough of Sarah…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWpKiD8Caj4

stands for decibels

August 26th, 2011
9:45 am

Anyone who refers to SS as a “Ponzi Scheme” with a straight face is automatically disqualified from holding national office.

Sorry, but them’s the rules.

jconservative

August 26th, 2011
9:45 am

“Our conclusion was that in a politically theatrical moment, Perry stated an old (and factually incorrect) claim that Texas retains the right to leave the union.”

That is what most people are calling out Perry on, the belief that Texas retains the legal right to secede based on the 1845 Congressional Joint Resolution and the Texas legislature resolution.

But Texas spent that opportunity when they joined the Confederate States of America. They are no longer subject to either 1845 resolution. They re-joined the Union under different circumstances.

Brosephus

August 26th, 2011
9:47 am

But Texas spent that opportunity when they joined the Confederate States of America. They are no longer subject to either 1845 resolution. They re-joined the Union under different circumstances.

I hereby nominate jcon as the new voice of reason at JB’s House of Unreasoned!!!!

stands for decibels

August 26th, 2011
9:47 am

That is what most people are calling out Perry on

exactly. That a man could ascend to an office like Governor and cling to an imbecilic belief like that defies imagination.

Bosch

August 26th, 2011
9:47 am

jm,

Well since Obama has said there needs to be changes to SS and Medicare, I’d say you were correct, but don’t look for him to be calling them a Ponzi Scheme.

Bosch

August 26th, 2011
9:49 am

“The Republican nominee won’t be Romney, who sits back and refuses to engage or throw a punch.”

Then Zedd, I’d suggest you start practicing saying “President Obama” for four more years.

Paul

August 26th, 2011
9:49 am

“Perry’s scorn for Social Security won’t be issue in GOP primary”

but boy, oh boy, wait ’till the general election –

Then maybe should open up an attack on Perry’ “I balanced the budget” claim which a week after the election turn into “A 21 billion dollar deficit? How’d that happen?”

Because you used Obama stimulus dollars, you hypocrite.

http://www.politifact.com/texas/statements/2011/apr/24/barack-obama/president-obama-says-gov-perry-used-stimulus-fund-/

Off to the gym -

stands for decibels

August 26th, 2011
9:50 am

Perry’s rhetoric will certainly be able to go toe to toe with Obama’s anybody else’s fault but mine defense.

Obama barely had to breathe hard in the 2008 general election, particularly in those sad debates with Gramps.

His knife work was done during the primaries, which you probably missed.

“you’re loveable enough, Rick.”

Paul

August 26th, 2011
9:50 am

“Then maybe ROMNEY should ”

I gotta get more sleep…

jm

August 26th, 2011
9:50 am

“but don’t look for him to be calling them a Ponzi Scheme.”

agreed

Guy Incognito

August 26th, 2011
9:51 am

Oh, and this is a bit more gentle for this weekend’s Eastern Seaboard

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EI9TS4O5Ww4&feature=youtube_gdata_player

real john

August 26th, 2011
9:51 am

Good article Jay. I can’t say I really disagree with you on this topic.

However, I do think it will be interesting how this entitlement thing plays out. Changes are going to have to be made. The math just doesn’t work for any of these entitlements plans long term. I’m looking for someone to lead on this issue. It doesn’t matter to me what the polls say, its what is best for the U.S. long term. Of course, most people aren’t willingly say “Yes, cut my benefits.” However, its up to the President and the leaders to lead on this issue. I would ask, would you rather have a 5% reduction now; or maybe a 30-35% reduction in four years? These are just hypothetical numbers, but it illustrates the point we will face as a nation if we don’t start making changes now.

Guy Incognito

August 26th, 2011
9:52 am

stands for decibels

August 26th, 2011
9:45 am
Anyone who refers to SS as a “Ponzi Scheme” with a straight face is automatically disqualified from holding national office.

If it walks like a duck……………

Talking Head

August 26th, 2011
9:52 am

We def need entitlement reform, but more importantly we need to cut spending…1.3 trillion deficits aren’t going to be sustainable much longer.

jm

August 26th, 2011
9:53 am

The nature of the problem

http://www.pgpf.org/~/media/PGPF/Media/PDF/2011/07/SS-Med-And-Defense-Area-Chart-20110713.ashx?pid={754A7DAF-FDC1-4F98-9CB9-A8DA1AFDABD4}

@@

August 26th, 2011
9:53 am

Social Security, he wrote, is a “Ponzi scheme,” “a crumbling monument to the failure of the New Deal” created “at the expense of respect for the Constitution and limited government.”

Oh so true!

In a recent CNN poll, 64 percent of Americans said they oppose making “major changes in Social Security and Medicare”

How many times have I read “the electorate is too dumb to vote”?

It’s been 70 years since SS was implemented. Not only are they dumb, they’re slow to realize just how dumb they’ve been.

Guy Incognito

August 26th, 2011
9:53 am

“………..47 percent of tea-party supporters back major cuts in Social Security and Medicare”

Count me among them. And I have a mother in an ALF, so it will impact me.

jm

August 26th, 2011
9:53 am

More “nature of the problem”

http://www.pgpf.org/~/media/PGPF/Media/PDF/2011/07/DebtChart-2011_07_13.ashx?pid={D7D61FFC-532F-4A57-93DA-23955573E162}

my game.

Joe the Plutocrat

August 26th, 2011
9:53 am

let’s accentuate the positive before we eliminate the neagtive. at least Perry(’s ghost writer, copy editor) spelled Ponzi correctly (and correctly used an upper case P. did he put “Ponzi scheme” in quotation marks? I don’t think this is necessary, as many different investment scams could be called Ponzi schemes. Run Rocky, run!

Zedd

August 26th, 2011
9:55 am

Nope, if the Barackalypse is elected to another four years, I’m going rouge, destined to appear on the six o’clock news.

jm

August 26th, 2011
9:56 am

“they support major cuts in domestic programs as a way to cut the deficit”

What do they think Social Security and Medicare are? Foreign programs? SS and Medicare are the biggest domestic programs we have…… oy

But at least their nose is pointed in the right direction….

Granny Godzilla

August 26th, 2011
9:56 am

Perry 2012

oh please oh please oh please

USinUK

August 26th, 2011
9:56 am

“Part of me says I’d pay to see that. Another part says I’d pay NOT to see it.”

that which has been seen cannot be unseen!

jm

August 26th, 2011
9:57 am

the nature of the problem….

http://www.pgpf.org/~/media/PGPF/Media/PDF/2011/07/20/FO-Haircut%20chart_2011_07_13.ashx?pid={E2EC3AD1-5929-4CC8-832E-5068FE7B9C68}

This is the big kahuna….

USinUK

August 26th, 2011
9:57 am

GG – Perry/Bachman 2012

big-time ohpleez-ohpleez-ohpleez

getalife

August 26th, 2011
9:57 am

We know the gop agenda is to default to end SS and Medicare and it is not a secret.

This election is to save SS and Medicare and a total collapse of our country.

It should be the main focus of this election.

Bosch

August 26th, 2011
9:58 am

“Nope, if the Barackalypse is elected to another four years, I’m going rouge, destined to appear on the six o’clock news.”

What Zedd, are you gonna try and shoot him?

stands for decibels

August 26th, 2011
9:58 am

If it walks like a duck……………

I’ve yet to see a Ponzi scheme that was plotted to somehow fall apart over a century later.

Even if SS did blow up because we were unwilling/unable to fully fund it decades from now, it would have successfully self-funded a half-dozen generations of retirees. It would be viewed by future historians as having been a stunning success in a Republic that had otherwise, disgracefully, been slow to provide for its own general welfare.

The “Ponzi Scheme” meme is ripe for being shat upon and buried, and I welcome the opportunity to do so if the GOP are stupid enough to nominate this buffoon. However, they won’t—primary voters will back a winner, and Romney (contrary to what has been asserted here) is fully capable of punching back, fighting dirty, etc. – he won’t let Perry beat him.

FrankLeeDarling

August 26th, 2011
9:59 am

ok with all the talk of strange musical mashups i just HAVE to put this one out there.
I cant think of anything that sums the present situation better than this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U13xOvDa19U

jm

August 26th, 2011
9:59 am

Not the rich folks fault.

http://www.pgpf.org/~/media/PGPF/Media/PDF/2011/07/20/T-Percentage%20income%20and%20taxes%20chart_2011_07_20.ashx?pid={448B2A13-6351-4C1F-8DA9-A2B79F6862BA}

ByteMe

August 26th, 2011
9:59 am

For 2011 the employee tax rate for social security is 4.2% (down from 6.2% for 2010). The employer tax rate for social security remains unchanged at 6.2%. The 2011 social security wage base limit is $106,800. In 2011, the Medicare tax rate is 1.45% each for employers and employees, unchanged from 2010. There is no wage base limit for Medicare tax.

Just to add some facts to the argument.

Remove the wage base limit for Social Security and the problem disappears.

Increase Medicare tax to 2% and that problem goes away for quite a while as well.

Buying time can be cheaper than solving the problem, given what’s coming in the healthcare field over the next 10-20 years that will dramatically lower our end-of-life costs.

Common Sense

August 26th, 2011
9:59 am

“A Ponzi scheme is a fraudulent investment operation that pays returns to separate investors, not from any actual profit earned by the organization, but from their own money or money paid by subsequent investors.”

So why doesn’t SS fit this description other than you do not like the term?

Brosephus

August 26th, 2011
9:59 am

We def need entitlement reform, but more importantly we need to cut spending…1.3 trillion deficits aren’t going to be sustainable much longer.

There’s a much simpler way to alleviate most of the financial problems that the US faces. The Democratic Party ran on that platform in 2008, the GOP ran on it in 2010, and both parties have completely dropped the ball. JOBS!!! More people working means more SS, Medicaid, and other “entitlement” funding. More people working means more revenue coming to the government.

We don’t need this drastic reform that conservatives want. We need jobs!!! Damn, does anybody even think anymore?

md

August 26th, 2011
10:00 am

“64 percent of Americans said they oppose making “major changes in Social Security and Medicare” as a means of addressing the debt problem”

Meaning that 64% thinks the other 46% should have to sacrifice vs they raising their hand………….

Keep Up the Good Fight!

August 26th, 2011
10:00 am

if the Barackalypse is elected to another four years, I’m going rouge, destined to appear on the six o’clock news

Comments like that are always a cause for concern and are really unacceptable. Hopefully it means nothing but we live in a world were people escalate to extremes.

Bosch

August 26th, 2011
10:01 am

Common Sense,

SS isn’t based on fraud, I mean for one thing.

Real Athens

August 26th, 2011
10:01 am

Perry scorns intellect.

What Did You Learn in School Today? (The Texas Version)
by Craig Studer
Millions of Texas students head back to school this week confronted by a dramatically altered, state-mandated social studies curriculum.

The contentious hearings of the Texas State Board of Education received considerable attention in the spring of 2010, but seem to have fallen out of the public consciousness as the new school year begins. The new curriculum, officially called the Texas Essential Knowledge and Skills, deserves renewed attention, as it will undoubtedly surprise most Texans.

The fiercest battle during the board’s hearings was fought over the 11th-grade history curriculum, which in Texas is “United States History since 1877.” The exception to that timeline is the new state-mandated “Celebrate Freedom Week,” during which students will learn about our founding fathers. That sounds simple enough, except that the only founding fathers included in the curriculum are Benjamin Rush, John Hancock, John Jay, John Witherspoon, John Peter Muhlenberg, Charles Carroll and Jonathan Trumbull Sr. What about George Washington, Thomas Jefferson or John Adams? They are nowhere to be found in the new high school TEKS. Students apparently learned everything they need to know about them in eighth grade.

As part of the board’s effort to emphasize the positives in American history, students will no longer learn about “American imperialism.” Instead students will discuss “American expansionism” and come to understand how “missionaries moved the United States into the position of a world power.” The board eliminated mention of our government’s use of propaganda during World War I, and instead of analyzing Truman’s decision to use the atomic bomb at the end of World War II, students will now analyze the development of the bomb. Additionally, students will now “evaluate efforts by international organizations to undermine U.S. sovereignty.”
The board included Estee Lauder in the state curriculum, but not George Washington.

Perhaps you have heard something about a labor movement in the 20th century? No longer will your children. The only reference to a 20th-century labor movement will come when learning about Cesar Chavez and Dolores Huerta. No mention of the Fair Labor Standards Act or the National Labor Relations Act. No mention of strikes or any labor dispute. The words “labor movement” were taken out of the TEKS. Perhaps there is not enough time because students must now “understand how the free enterprise system drives technological innovation … such as cell phones, inexpensive personal computers and global positioning products.”

Students will learn about the contributions of Jerry Falwell’s Moral Majority. Maybe the students will read Falwell’s claim that feminists and homosexuals were partially responsible for the 9/11 attacks. Phyllis Schlafly, the Heritage Foundation and the NRA are all included. Students will also be required to “discuss the meaning of ‘In God We Trust.’ ”

History in Texas classrooms will be decidedly different from when we were students. I never learned “both the positive and negative impacts of … country and western music” in my high school history class. Where would you rate Estée Lauder in terms of historical importance to our country? If you think she is one of the 68 most important historical figures, you agree with the board. Yes, the board included her in the state curriculum, but not George Washington.

I also never learned that the findings of the House Committee on Un-American Activities were confirmed, perhaps because it is not true. It puts teachers in an awkward position by asking them to teach something that is historically inaccurate. I will not have to deal with that issue in some of my classes because my Advanced Placement U.S. History classes are not required to follow the state curriculum. I am guessing that the Texas Education Agency realizes that students could never pass national exams while learning the state-mandated curriculum.

During the next decade, we should not be surprised when university professors lament that Texas students are not prepared for college. Malcolm X once said, “Education is the passport to the future, for tomorrow belongs to those who prepare for it today.” You might remember a historical figure named Malcolm X, but your children won’t. Malcolm X is not in the social studies curriculum in Texas. Now if you will excuse me, I have to do some research on Estée Lauder. She was not mentioned in any of my graduate history courses, either.

Craig Studer is a public school teacher in Austin, TX. He has a master’s degree in curriculum and instruction and a master’s degree in U.S. history.

stands for decibels

August 26th, 2011
10:01 am

I’m going rouge

hee hee. Merkin Patriot, is that you?

jm

August 26th, 2011
10:02 am

Jay

“They want to cut programs for those OTHER people.”

Obviously, WE are the OTHER people. Unless we’re willing to cut our own benefits and raise our own taxes, this can’t be solved. I’m willing to sign up. Who else is?

(Liberals who just want to just raise taxes on rich people don’t count because it doesn’t fix the problem and self sacrifice doesn’t mean sacrificing someone else – which should be obvious but sometimes these things have to be pointed out to liberals)

Keep Up the Good Fight!

August 26th, 2011
10:03 am

Preach it, Brosephus… but I am afraid that the farther they go to the right, the greater the adverse impact on the ability to hear the truth. Perhaps that is why they seem to hear completely different music from the rest of the country.

Joe the Plutocrat

August 26th, 2011
10:03 am

whiskey, tango foxtrot does “Americans who identify themselves as tea party supporters” mean? like, they’re not “card carrying members”, they merely “support” the tea party (presumably financially, and I suppose emotionally). but I guess this would explain how neo-con/GOP types like the Koch brothers factor into to this. they see the “tea party movement” in terms of its value to the neo-con/GOP agenda and as such the “support it”. kinda like what Mark Twain said about “supporting” a prostitute, right? you don’t pay her for the sex, you pay her to leave when you’re done. there is no “tea party” at the national level and I hope these “tea party supporters” are practicing safe sex when the hop into bed with the neocon GOP.

md

August 26th, 2011
10:03 am

“We don’t need this drastic reform that conservatives want. We need jobs!!! Damn, does anybody even think anymore?”

Don’t you think if the magic job fairy could wave her magic job wand then we would already have jobs?

Since she didn’t, then the problem as it stands is deficit spending………….

We need to focus on the here and now, not the what ifs…………

ty webb

August 26th, 2011
10:03 am

Jay,
or maybe they want the money, less interest, that has been taken from them for years to be returned to them.

jconservative

August 26th, 2011
10:03 am

Unfunded Liabilities

Social Security……$15.2 trillion…Easily fixed.

Prescription Drug Plan…..$20.1 trillion…And the program is only 6 years old. Cancel it!

Medicare……$80.0 trillion…Ideas anyone? Over 47 million people are on some Medicare program. That is a lot of voters.

Bosch

August 26th, 2011
10:04 am

a”Liberals who just want to just raise taxes on rich people don’t count because it doesn’t fix the problem and self sacrifice doesn’t mean sacrificing someone else – which should be obvious but sometimes these things have to be pointed out to liberal”

Well first jm, you might want to point to anyone who actually has wrote they believe that. Sometimes we have to point out that glaringly obvious character flaw in you.

Bosch

August 26th, 2011
10:04 am

Jay,

As Keep pointed out as well, I truly hope I misread idiot comments like that.

Zedd

August 26th, 2011
10:05 am

No Bosch, I made no threats. I may be on the fringe but I’m not completely insane or stupid. Oh and thanks Jay, damn dyslexia strikes again!

Talking Head

August 26th, 2011
10:05 am

“We don’t need this drastic reform that conservatives want. We need jobs!!! Damn, does anybody even think anymore?”

I agree…but the government won’t be the driver creating jobs. Politicians don’t create jobs.

We will have more revenues with more jobs, but we also need to cut spending back to pre 2008 levels…for the past 3 1/2 years we have taken keynesian spending to a new level and haven’t seen the “results” so many academics have predicted

Keep Up the Good Fight!

August 26th, 2011
10:05 am

self sacrifice? Not shared sacrifice? Thar’s yur problem.

Brosephus

August 26th, 2011
10:06 am

Jay @ 10:00

Midori

August 26th, 2011
10:06 am

the shadow knows – http://juanitajean.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/Rick_Perry-The_Shadow_Knows.jpg

Bosch

August 26th, 2011
10:07 am

jconservative,

And of those 47 million people that are on some kind of Medicare program, there are millions more people who help care for them.

USinUK

August 26th, 2011
10:07 am

Bosch – “For example, for a music-driven ad campaign, Old Navy teamed up with music-identifying service Shazam to connect smartphone users to a virtual store to buy clothes and download music featured in the ads.”

actually, it was just a spelling error.

he’s actually going ROUGE

Common Sense

August 26th, 2011
10:07 am

“SS isn’t based on fraud, I mean for one thing.”

Because the funds collected for payout were never promised to be invested and earn a rate of return?

It requires a continuous stream of new participants to fund the payouts for older participants.

And without that stream, older participants will not be able to receive what they were promised.

Participation is mandatory and forced by the Federal Government. Had it not been, there would have been a lack of funds to pay off older participants years ago.

jm

August 26th, 2011
10:07 am

jconservative – Medicare: means test it like crazy (anyone with savings over $100,000 ineligible). Continue changes to “pay for service” rather that “pay for procedure”. Only stupid obamacare makes it voluntary which raises costs. “Pay for service” should be mandatory. Oh yes, up Medicare premiums.

Granny Godzilla

August 26th, 2011
10:07 am

“if the Barackalypse is elected to another four years, I’m going rouge, destined to appear on the six o’clock news”

HEADLINE WILL READ:

Nutjob threatens President, butt kicked by Masked Granny with pocketbook
nunjucks

When questioned Granny pointed out it was a formal occasion so he was actually taken out with her more appropriate for the occasion satin clutch purse numchucks…..

USinUK

August 26th, 2011
10:07 am

DAMMIT, JAY!! you beat me to the punch

Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)

August 26th, 2011
10:08 am

Well, we got to cut out SS. These geezers need to get off their butts, stop waiting for a guvmint check, and get a job. Work till they drop.

But us Tea Partiers say hands off our Medicare. We don’t want no guvmint interference with that.

Anyhow, Perry would of been better off to keep his mouth shut about SS until after the elections. There’s many a dead body after touching that Third Rail of Politics. Even us TPers can’t get a majority for cutting SS. And he’s paved the way for Mr. Mormon Underpants to beat him out without doing nothing. All those geezers in Florida will be after Perry like a Honeybadge after a cobra. And then we’ll lose the election and the worst thing in the world will happen: No. 1 Foxy Lady will be on here to tell us to suck on it.

Have a good Friday everybody. I’m hauling and lugging to get you ready for swapping weird music tonight. Bookman kind of caught me with my pants down with the music last night, but I won’t be fooled again.

Bosch

August 26th, 2011
10:08 am

Then Zedd, are you going rouge to highlight your cheekbones? How else is one to interpret some remark where you say you will wind up on the six o’clock news?

md

August 26th, 2011
10:08 am

“Well first jm, you might want to point to anyone who actually has wrote they believe that.”

bosch……I can name several here that have stated just that…….they know who they are, and you can too if you pull it up…………

Fred

August 26th, 2011
10:08 am

Just damn dB where do you find stuff like that?

jm

August 26th, 2011
10:09 am

Well Bosch 10:04, Byteme wrote almost exactly that at 9:59

You guys have had the “tax the rich” strategy on repeat for so long you can’t think straight.

Bosch

August 26th, 2011
10:09 am

“(anyone with savings over $100,000 ineligible”

And the first trip to the hospital for a broken hip….person’s savings are wiped out and we have posters like Woodstock Mike howling because their inheritance is gone.

Granny Godzilla

August 26th, 2011
10:09 am

“Don’t you think if the magic job fairy could wave her magic job wand then we would already have jobs?”

Do you mean the tax cuts magic job fairy?

getalife

August 26th, 2011
10:09 am

Any American voting gop to lose their SS and Medicare are committing economic suicide like the gop want to do.

Almost half of the tea party want this to happen to them.

kayaker 71

August 26th, 2011
10:10 am

Rasmussen today….. only 23% of the electorate strongly approve of Bozo…. 44% strongly disapprove. The most amazing stat…. 53% of black voters and 63% of Democrats feel that the country is headed in the wrong direction, along with 83% of whites and 77% of other ethnicities, totally a whopping 79% of the electorate feeling that the country is on the wrong track. Libs, the denial train is at the station and the tickets are really cheap.

jm

August 26th, 2011
10:11 am

Bosch 10:09 – tough patooties. Life is full of difficult choices.

Talking Head

August 26th, 2011
10:11 am

“Any American voting gop to lose their SS and Medicare are committing economic suicide like the gop want to do.”

Well for those of us under, i don’t know let’s say 40..we’ve already lost our SS and Medicare unless we change the way the programs are financed

Bosch

August 26th, 2011
10:11 am

So jm, please explain ByteMe’s comments some more:

how does

“Remove the wage base limit for Social Security and the problem disappears”

equate to

“Liberals who just want to just raise taxes on rich people don’t count because it doesn’t fix the problem and self sacrifice doesn’t mean sacrificing someone else”

USinUK

August 26th, 2011
10:12 am

Jay – THREE WEEKS!!! (lock up the Crystal hot sauce!)

can’t wait to see the Dadkins and the fam

Brosephus

August 26th, 2011
10:12 am

Don’t you think if the magic job fairy could wave her magic job wand then we would already have jobs?

If there was such a fairy, she would have probably kicked all our CEO’s in the nads by now.

People, especially businessmen, need to wake the f**k up and realize that there’s no such monster as everlasting profits. You WILL have a time where you don’t profit. It’s what you do then that determines whether you’ll end up successful or not. These scary b@stards in control now need to remember that “American Exceptionalism” that conservatives are always talking about.

If our forefathers had been chicken sh*ts like we have now, we wouldn’t even have a country. They would have been content sitting and waiting for the British to leave instead of fighting for what they wanted. When we’ve been faced with adversity before, we’ve pushed right through with determination that can only be found in this country. It’s embarrassing as hell to know how our country and people functioned in much more adverse conditions and came out better than before, but nowadays, we have such pansies and chicken sh*ts in control now.

getalife

August 26th, 2011
10:14 am

“Well for those of us under, i don’t know let’s say 40..we’ve already lost our SS and Medicare unless we change the way the programs are financed”

Yeah and you support your parents or throw them out on the streets to eat catfood.

What kind of man are you?

Bosch

August 26th, 2011
10:15 am

“tough patooties. Life is full of difficult choices”

Oh, that’s nice jm. And life is also full of naive people who think that would just fly with most.

jm

August 26th, 2011
10:15 am

Bosch

“Remove the wage base limit for Social Security” = tax the rich and moderately rich (those making over $100k/person)

And since most medicare taxes are paid by upper income earners, raising the rate (as he mentioned) does the same thing, only slightly more fairly

Really, its amazing these things have to be pointed out to people who can read and write.

Just Another Anonymous One

August 26th, 2011
10:15 am

Twelve percent approve of Congress’s “work” to date. I was wrong. They actually can drop below a thirteen percent approval rating.

jm

August 26th, 2011
10:16 am

Bosch – go back to those charts and tell me how you’re going to fix the problem caused 85% by ballooning Medicare and Social Security costs. And tell me how you’re going to do it on the backs of someone other than the rich.

I accept the rich will have to pay more, but that will only solve 10-20% of the problem. You get to go figure out how to solve the other 80%. I look forward to your answers.

kayaker 71

August 26th, 2011
10:17 am

Brochephus, 10:12

Your last paragraph is spot on.

jm

August 26th, 2011
10:19 am

40% of people receiving social security don’t need it.

http://www.pgpf.org/~/media/PGPF/Media/PDF/2011/07/20/PR-SS%20percent%20of%20income_2011_07_20.ashx?pid={4791AB7D-47FF-46FC-9709-38B119414614}

Savings. Boom.

Bosch

August 26th, 2011
10:19 am

“go back to those charts and tell me how you’re going to fix the problem caused 85% by ballooning Medicare and Social Security costs. And tell me how you’re going to do it on the backs of someone other than the rich”

A single payer health care system.

This has been another episode of simple answers to stupid questions.

Brosephus

August 26th, 2011
10:19 am

USinner from downstairs

I usually know the type of plane all the way down to the series number and seating arrangement. Old work habit.

Just Another Anonymous One

August 26th, 2011
10:19 am

“Remove the wage base limit for Social Security” = tax the rich and moderately rich (those making over $100k/person)

Actually it means tax 100% of a larger portion of the population.

Zedd

August 26th, 2011
10:19 am

Fair enough Bosch, I’ll admit my comments while dyslexic were wildly open to a number of speculations especially when interpreted by the likes of you whose self appointed job is to sit on here all day and try issue beat downs to anyone’s opinion you disagree with. Maybe I simply meant that I thought that another fours years of Obama would bring further troubles to our country, you know with those flash mobs and all. But hey I’ll go sit in the corner, keep my mouth shut and wear the dunce cap for the rest of the day if it makes you happy just because you’re you!

Joe the Plutocrat

August 26th, 2011
10:20 am

I tried to explain this to jm the other night, while he was throwing rocks at Ron Paul. since we moved to a central bank (Federal Reserve) system and eventually abandoned the gold standard (commodities backed securities or sound money policy), our entire public enterprise (that means “government” for those who want our government to be “run like a business”) is a Ponzi scheme. from 1791 through 1913 we “taxed and spent”. the first taxes levied by the new republic were used to pay of the debts incurred during the revolutionary war. but once the Federal Reserve was formed, it realized it could “borrow and spend”. this rapidly (within 60 years) devalued the dollars that were backed by gold, to the point where Nixon basically created a new dollar (not backed by gold), and that was the first charge on our current $14.8 tab. a Ponzi scheme basically “creates wealth” by sleight of hand (think of a shell game) and the Fed/government is running the game, and we The People keep foolishly “betting” we know where the pea is located (by electing and re-electing folks like Perry). as I said, it’s a rigged game, and it ain’t never going to be”un-rigged” (just ask the folks who are about to get walloped by “investing” in gold). the Federal Reserve basically “created” the bubble, bust, bailout cyclical economy we now call “home” and as I said, the Fed is running the Ponzi scheme, and we the People are running out of $ (even the “producers” who are not named Warren Buffet).

getalife

August 26th, 2011
10:21 am

Do you cons have the room and money to support your parents health and drug costs when you end these programs?

Or will you toss them on the streets to fend for themselves?

ragnar danneskjold

August 26th, 2011
10:21 am

I think our host has generally embraced a broad truth. The current regime has so devastated the economy that sentient beings will consider different ideas, just for hope and change. So long as Gov. Perry promises to make our national economy less like that of Illinois and more like that of Texas – presumably laws and governance philosophy do have economic effects – I suspect the populace will be receptive.

jm

August 26th, 2011
10:21 am

“A single payer health care system. ”

Also means an immediate recession as healthcare shrinkage causes a 6% reduction of GDP without knockon effects. Multiplier means a 8-10% reduction in GDP.

Moral of the story: Dems love recessions.

md

August 26th, 2011
10:22 am

“People, especially businessmen, need to wake the f**k up and realize that there’s no such monster as everlasting profits.”

And I’d counter that some know that quite well………hence a possible reason they are sitting on their cash. They do know that profits are not guaranteed, and some have the sense to stockpile reserves.

A good finance manager will have several plans spanning several years………and withing those periods, they will also do bestcase and worstcase scenarios…………we are currently in one of those worst case scenarios………the non-planners are already gone…………

Bosch

August 26th, 2011
10:22 am

” and try issue beat downs to anyone’s opinion you disagree with.”

Poor Zedd, he and GLL need to form a support group of “Bookman Bloggers picked on my mean old Liberals”

USinUK

August 26th, 2011
10:22 am

SoCoBro – you and the mister would get a long like a house on fire! he knows who makes them, when, how old, all the stuff I really don’t care about.

Bosch

August 26th, 2011
10:23 am

jm,

Life is full of tough choices, huh?

No, it actually means that Medicare disappears and costs are more controlled by the single payer that pays.

jm-the one eyed man

August 26th, 2011
10:24 am

Gotta go. Good luck on figuring this out liberals.

Brosephus

August 26th, 2011
10:26 am

kayaker

Thanks. I’m just tired of people making excused for anything and everything. We need to just man up and do what’s gotta be done. There will be painful decisions that have to be made, but we don’t need to inflict unnecessary pain just to push ideologies.

kayaker 71

August 26th, 2011
10:28 am

Any of you liberals have any doubt what conservatives stand for in this country should watch Marco Rubio’s speech at the Reagan Library. This guy should be our next president.

Generation$crewed

August 26th, 2011
10:28 am

Who cares what their view on SS is?

Unless serious reform is done to the program I will not see any of the money I have put into it, nor will anyone my age or younger. Shyte even a couple of years older than me won’t see any of it.

Unless tough decisions are made and my generation accepts the facts that we will not get an even trade on our SS investment.

Keep Up the Good Fight!

August 26th, 2011
10:28 am

Bosch, I thought support groups are just another crutch for those without “personal responsibility.”

getalife

August 26th, 2011
10:28 am

Lets try an experiment.

End Medicare and SS for the cons parents to force their con children to pay for their parents to live.

Personal responsibility.

Bosch

August 26th, 2011
10:29 am

“Unless serious reform is done to the program I will not see any of the money I have put into it, nor will anyone my age or younger.”

Funny. I used to hear my dad say the same thing when I was his age, and now he gets his SS very timely deposited every month.

Mary Elizabeth

August 26th, 2011
10:29 am

From a historical perspective, those who have opposed FDR’s 2nd Bill of Rights for America’s citizens have increasingly become more sophisticated in hiding the fact that agenda has been the dismantling of public government programs for decades. (Few are denying the need for budget cutting because of the high deficit – that began in the last decade – but the cutting should be across the board, not just for entitlements, although entitlements need adjustment.)

The music referred to, above, can be equated to the rhythm in the hearts of those who are blindly following that propelling propaganda. But, reason comes back to remind them that they will be hurt, personally, by supporting severe change to Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid. Thus, the paradox in the poll results.

So which, in the end, will prevail in the minds of America’s common people – their reason or their passion?
————————————————–

More words from Thomas Jefferson, from Padover’s book, “Jefferson’:

“Preach, my dear Sir, a crusade against ignorance; establish and improve the law for educating the common people. . .the tax which will be paid for this purpose is not more than. . .what will be paid to kings, priests, and nobles, who will rise up among us if we leave the people in ignorance.”

Bosch

August 26th, 2011
10:30 am

Keep,

Everytime I think of support groups, I think of the movie “Fight Club” and get all creeped out.

That movie — you could just SMELL the gross. Ewww, but I loved it.

Bosch

August 26th, 2011
10:30 am

“Lets try an experiment.

End Medicare and SS for the cons parents to force their con children to pay for their parents to live.

Personal responsibility.”

Exactly getalife. Just think of the savings!!!

AmVet

August 26th, 2011
10:31 am

Guy and FrankLee, good selections. Albeit, that second one was really strange.

Good peeps, relax. Yosemite Rick has a snowball’s chance in ____ of ever living at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.

One completely incompetent Texas governor in DC per lifetime is plenty.

This one would have been great last night following the soon to be famous Overheated Sessions…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=loRE25Sc4ec&feature=list_related&playnext=1&list=PL32D0F80A0E686A3F

Joe the Plutocrat

August 26th, 2011
10:31 am

ragnar, since your premise is flawed, your conclusion is “flaweder”

Keep Up the Good Fight!

August 26th, 2011
10:31 am

Sanders announced that he will introduce legislation that would strengthen Social Security without cutting benefits to any of its beneficiaries. Sanders’ legislation would eliminate the income cap that currently exists in the payroll tax that does not tax income above $106,800:

To keep Social Security strong for another 75 years, Sanders’ legislation would apply the same payroll tax already paid by more than nine out of 10 Americans to those with incomes over $250,000 a year. [...] Under Sanders’ legislation, Social Security benefits would be untouched. The system would be fully funded by making the wealthiest Americans pay the same payroll tax already assessed on those with incomes up to $106,800 a year.

______________________

There are definitely days when I wish Sanders were President and Congress had a lot more Sanders.

Generation$crewed

August 26th, 2011
10:31 am

Bosch

August 26th, 2011
10:29 am

Your dad was either born before or is a baby boomer most likely.

They are the ones who will be draining most of the money. You know this. But if you want to refuse and ignore reality be my guest.

Thomas

August 26th, 2011
10:31 am

I would encourage all folks to google/read up on David Walker- ex comptroller general of the US. The issue will never be solved by one side saying “get rid of it” and the other side saying “keep it as is”. Folks, it is all fun and games until the money runs out. We need an administration exhibiting leadership and working towards the next century of economic advancement. Paygo only works in a growing economy.

getalife

August 26th, 2011
10:33 am

Bosch,

These cons would dump their parents on the street.

They have no personal responsibility.

It is all about them. The me generation.

They need a wake up call .

Adam

August 26th, 2011
10:33 am

I should also point out that in the CNN poll, 80 percent of those identifying themselves as tea-party supporters say they support major cuts in domestic programs as a way to cut the deficit.

However, only 47 percent of tea-party supporters back major cuts in Social Security and Medicare; 52 percent oppose it.

That’s because the Religious Right doesn’t know what the so called “entitlement” programs are. They just see the word “entitlement” and think it probably means welfare or something. You know, stuff they hate.

Bosch

August 26th, 2011
10:33 am

GS,

I’m not ignoring reality, I know that the contractural agreements to the Baby Boomers made by the federal government will probably be the largest in our nations history, I also know it’s a temporary problem that can be fixed with a few twinks instead of a complete dismantling of one of the most efficient retirement systems ever created by mankind.

Brosephus

August 26th, 2011
10:34 am

USinner

Occupational hazzard for me. I can clear one pretty quick if there are threats on board too.

ty webb

August 26th, 2011
10:34 am

Bosch,
dang it…you just broke the first rule of fight club.

Generation$crewed

August 26th, 2011
10:35 am

Bosch

August 26th, 2011
10:30 am

getalife

August 26th, 2011
10:28 am

My family has been doing it for 3 generations that I was personally around for. Don’t see it stopping with the next generation or anytime soon.

Do you not love your parents enough to take care of them in their late years?

They took care of you as a child, why can you not return the favor or why do you think someone else should pay for it?

Guess we should all be happy that our parents put our lives and well being above their personal finances huh?

md

August 26th, 2011
10:36 am

soco,

And I would also point to Japan over the last decade………think they didn’t want their recession to end?

Part of the problem we are now experiencing is due to “projections”……..spending based on imaginary income…………..

In the real world, those jobs you speak of are basically the same thing…….imaginary….for now.

What happens if they never materialize………..Japan?

USinUK

August 26th, 2011
10:36 am

kayaker – we liberals KNOW what conservatives stand for – we don’t know need see a video

but thanks

USinUK

August 26th, 2011
10:37 am

SoCoBro – are you still going to cuff me as I get off the plane in a few weeks??

Joe the Plutocrat

August 26th, 2011
10:37 am

jm, c’mon son, you gotta bring more to the game thanl “dems love a recession”? can you read? since the inception of the Federal Reserve Bank, we have lived in an economy that is designed to produce recessions, which are also known as ’short sale opportunities for oligarchs’. you spent like an hour slapping Ron Paul – who HATES the Federal Reserve and HATES “recessions” and yet, you claim the a very plausible, viable solution (single payer system) is not viable because it will produce an “immediate recession”. let me share something with you; we have had several “recessions” and one “Great Depression” since 1913, and to my knowledge, the “single payer system” has yet to leave the drawing board. one more thing; the current healthcare system is a Ponzi scheme.

Generation$crewed

August 26th, 2011
10:38 am

Bosch

August 26th, 2011
10:33 am

Never called for dismantling the program said major reforms.

I understand teh need to take care of those who cannot take care of themselves. But I also see a whole lotta folks being taken care of who could in fact do it themselves just fine or could have their family do it just fine.

USinUK

August 26th, 2011
10:39 am

Bosch – 10:30 – but it’s still one of the best movies I’ve seen in AGES

Generation$crewed

August 26th, 2011
10:39 am

USinUK

August 26th, 2011
10:36 am

I consider myself conservative. So what do i stand for?

kayaker 71

August 26th, 2011
10:39 am

It is not the average guy’s fault that SS is threatened. He/she has paid into the system involuntarily for all of their working career and expect something in return for their contribution. Now when those who screwed the system say that they can’t pay up, we are supposed to like it or figure out some other kind of scheme to fix it, like taxing the rich, reducing benefits or raising the cap. We are doing these things because someone screwed the pooch and spent all of those involuntarily contributed dollars to something other than SS. When are we going to stop making excuses for all of these people who “manage our money”?

Gordon

August 26th, 2011
10:40 am

In the same way that Perry mumbles “Ponzi scheme” when talking about Social Security, liberals like Bosch mumble “single payer health care system” and thinks that solves the financial issues with Medicare and Medicaid. The part of our health care system that we have already turned over to the government is broke, so he wants to turn the rest over to it. Great idea.

The simple fact of the matter is that there must me major structural changes to all 3 of the major entitlement programs or they will not survive long term. Eliminating the Bush tax cuts or other revenue changes will not come close to solving the problem. The unfunded liability of Medicare alone is $100 trillion. It will be changed, one way or another.

Stevie Ray

August 26th, 2011
10:41 am

Jay, if history remains a credible indicator, any of these guys as well as Obama will say anything to get elected. If that means this guy reserves the right to sing a different tune if the polls or key money backers want same…It’s his full blown subscription to his imaginary friends that scares me the most.

kayaker 71

August 26th, 2011
10:41 am

USinUK, 10:36

You should watch it, if nothing more, than to know your enemy better. Education is a wonderful thing.

getalife

August 26th, 2011
10:41 am

kay,

Your party spent like there was no tomorrow.

Hypocrites.

You had a chance to stop it when you had power but you collapsed the economy instead.

Brosephus

August 26th, 2011
10:42 am

md

As Japan and others have already proven, we will NOT get back to 5% unemployment within this decade. If people actually paid attention to history, what they would be doing is working on educating and training the workforce to be ready when things get better. It’s gonna be a long, slow process for us because we don’t have much industry here to jumpstart anything.

Instead, we have people hoarding in a consumption-based economy. That does nothing for GDP. Hoarding money in the stock market benefits those who are able to do so, but the rest of the country is suffering. If the private sector is not willing to put forth the capital that’s needed to jumpstart the economy, the government is the only other viable entity. There’s not enough money in the hands of everyday citizens to create the demand necessary to put people back to work.

It’s either gonna be the private sector taking short term losses for long term gains, or the government increasing it’s deficit spending to create demand. The longer we wait for a decision, the worse off we’ll be.

Joe the Plutocrat

August 26th, 2011
10:42 am

kayaker71, there are only two answers: 1 – when we vote for/elect responsible stewards, or 2 – NEVER becaue we the People don’t elect politicians, oligarchs do and they like things “as is”.

Talking Head

August 26th, 2011
10:42 am

” also know it’s a temporary problem that can be fixed with a few twinks instead of a complete dismantling of one of the most efficient retirement systems ever created by mankind.”

seriously? how much money is wasted in fraud and abuse each year from social security? billions? i wouldn’t exactly call that one of the most efficient retirement systems ever created

USinUK

August 26th, 2011
10:42 am

kayaker – 10:41 – unlike you, I don’t see you as the enemy … the opposition, yes, but not the enemy.

Brosephus

August 26th, 2011
10:43 am

SoCoBro – are you still going to cuff me as I get off the plane in a few weeks??

Hmmmm…..
You’ll have to wait and find out…..

USinUK

August 26th, 2011
10:43 am

Screwed – If you espouse the GOP platform, you’re against a woman’s right to chose, you’re for federal money supporting private schools, you’re against clean air and water and your for unsafe workplaces.

there.

did that help?

Bosch

August 26th, 2011
10:44 am

GS,

“or could have their family do it just fine”

I’ve been caring for elderly relatives for 10 plus years now, so don’t lecture me.

I’ve cleaned up more old people shyt and other various body fluids than I did with three kids in diapers. And now with two dogs who think my living room is just one big toilet, I clean up even more!

The thing is, I have the house space, and the resources to do it, and the iron clad stomach of a Gladiator (although lets not get into the puppy eating the trash and the aftermath thereof because that caused compromise even my steel stomach) — most people do not.

TruthBe

August 26th, 2011
10:45 am

Jay, Again your are nothing but a mouthpiece for the corrupt liars of the democrat party. You took Mr.Perry’s words completely out of it’s full statement and point that he was trying to say. Copy and Paste the entire statements not just a few choice sentences. ALL of you media people have forgotten about your true job as journalists. You have ALL become one party are the other parties blow horns. Jay you have lose all respect as a fair and balanced journalist. You are a bias liberal liar for the democrat party. Shame on you Jay.

stands for decibels

August 26th, 2011
10:45 am

It requires a continuous stream of new participants to fund the payouts for older participants.

oh noes!

JC on a pogo stick, the trolls are pathetic. Speaking of which–means testing, jm? really? that’s your big idea?

why don’t you tell us what kinda massssssive savings we’d realize from that?

good god.

USinUK

August 26th, 2011
10:46 am

Bosch – 10:44 – and that’s just one of the innumerable reasons you are MY HERO.

(not to mention, the shared sense of humor)

kayaker 71

August 26th, 2011
10:47 am

USinUK, 10:42

You coulda’ fooled me.

stands for decibels

August 26th, 2011
10:47 am

If you espouse the GOP platform, you’re against a woman’s right to chose, you’re for federal money supporting private schools, you’re against clean air and water and your for unsafe workplaces.

or, as previously stated–the GOP is FUBAR.

Donovan

August 26th, 2011
10:47 am

You can forget about all the polls that JB throws your way. First off, CNN will always play the poll results to suite their liberal views. As far as WSJ/NBC…I do believe that NBC is another liberal soap box that coincidentally has left wing MSNBC within its stable.

I will cast my “polled” vote as a Tea Party member in favor of major cuts to Social Security and Medicare/Medicaid. Perry casts no illusion to the problem and is not afraid to let people know what the problem is and what is needed to fix the problem.

People in this country are naive to think that doing nothing to rectify the problems of these failed entitlement programs will be ok and the U.S. will hum on as usual.

History has shown us that FDR’s Santa Clause Party won immense acceptance with the creation of these entitlements. These programs generated untapped votes for the Democrat Party. Democrats know full well that entitlements are almost impossible to take away after they have become law. Democrats also know full well that such a socialized program invites malfeasance and the opportunity for looting. These same Democrat politicians know that these type of programs provide an ideal vehicle for sustained politicaql power when eradication or reform is mentioned. Who gets blamed for changing these failed, blood sucking program(s)? Let’s see…the GOP? The Tea Party? Conservative politicians? I think you get the picture to their scam.

Once you mess around with something to fund extraneous spending programs other than the original one, you’ve got problems. Once again, history has shown us that Democrats love to spend. Their congressional mismanagement of Social Security and Medicare/Medicaid over decades of borrowing from Peter to pay Paul is now in our faces.

Rick Perry is like the doctor warning the patient that in order to fix the problem he has to administer some bitter medicine. Mitt Romney is like the patient that knows there is a problem, but is afraid to take the medicine.

What JB gives us is nothing more than the Democrat rhetoric of trying to destroy another GOP candidate for the presidency. He and his political party want to stay in power, but do nothing to save this country’s economic woes. They created this monster, but they are content to let this monster pillage and loot the very foundations of this nation.

Joe the Plutocrat

August 26th, 2011
10:48 am

and JB, if one of those four in TX happens to be a teenage girl, she has to get a shot so she won’t get cervical cancer. so, rangar, where; pray tell in the US Constitution, or the Texas Constitution does it say the gubmint is responsible for “healthcare”? answer, it doesn’t, but it does in the Merck playbook, and since Perry’s former Chief of Staff went on to become a lobbyist for Merck, I think maybe Perry is not long for this race, and if by chance he does get the GOP nod; you’d better brace yourself for 4 more years of the Illinois economy. you know, to his credit (and I mean, Karl Rove) Bush really didn’t start releasing the brain farts until AFTER the election. Perry is a tougher sell. the GOP needs to go back to the lab and build a better candidate. if you guys really want “change” you’d better bring your A game and Perry as we know is like “C” game at best.

Adam

August 26th, 2011
10:49 am

Stevie Ray: If that means this guy reserves the right to sing a different tune if the polls or key money backers want same

Well, Romney is pretty good at saying something new all the time, or being silent. Perry is good at ALMOST saying things, not so good at cashing in on plausible deniability (instead, he lets the pundits give him the benefit of the doubt)

Just Another Anonymous One

August 26th, 2011
10:49 am

Eliminating the Bush tax cuts or other revenue changes will not come close to solving the problem.

Since those cuts are so inconsequential, you should not mind undoing them especially since there were no offsetting spending cuts imposed to pay for them in the first place.

The unfunded liability of Medicare alone is $100 trillion.

Yep. That’s the number I come up with, for the year 3030 if we don’t do something about it NOW!

Generation$crewed

August 26th, 2011
10:50 am

USinUK

August 26th, 2011
10:43 am

That may be your problem.

You feel a need to group people based on your own perception. I said i consider myself conservative. You took that and then put me in line with GOP policies.

I am sorry that you are unable to identify that there is a difference between GOP and conservative. You do know every democrat is not a liberal right?

So basically your earlier statement is false, u do not know what conservatives think, just what you have been told the GOP thinks.

Adam

August 26th, 2011
10:50 am

Talking Head: i wouldn’t exactly call that one of the most efficient retirement systems ever created

Boil down who gets paid how much per person in the end, and compare that to ANY retirement system per person, and tell me what you come up with.

USinUK

August 26th, 2011
10:51 am

kayaker – 10:47 – considering my dad and a few of the people I consider my nearest and dearest are GOP, I don’t see them as the enemy

we disagree on policy

but they’re not the enemy

you might try it sometime.

carlosgvv

August 26th, 2011
10:51 am

Guy Incognito

So you think Social Security is a ponzi scheme? Well, let’ see. Social Security started under FDR. After he died, Truman became president. Did Republicans call it a ponze scheme under Truman, Eisenhower, Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon, Ford, Carter, Bush (1), Clinton or Bush(2)? But now comes the brillant Perry who sees what Republicans under all these former Presidents could not see? And you actually believe that?

Adam

August 26th, 2011
10:51 am

Eliminating the Bush tax cuts or other revenue changes will not come close to solving the problem.

Utter nonsense. If Congress doesn’t do ANYTHING for the next ten years, and that includes not extending any tax cuts, then our budget problems get solved at the end of those ten years. Real numbers.

md

August 26th, 2011
10:51 am

soco,

Can’t argue too much with any of that, except it is a cycle of one based on another…….for everything the gov’t spends, the private sector must produce…….I understand that gov’t spending is sometimes needed to jumpstart the economy……in theory.Jjapan showed what happens when the gov’t tried…..and it failed…….leaving the private sector too burdened to pull out of it. that is the gamble being taken when the gov’t spends…….and it can backfire.

Think about it……..the Fed has already used just about everything in it’s bag of tricks……and we are on the verge of a double-dip recession………….there isn’t anything left to pull us out of it.

I can’t blame the corps going into self-preservation mode………they are trying to save the 90% that ARE employed……………….

Bosch

August 26th, 2011
10:52 am

“but it’s still one of the best movies I’ve seen in AGES”

I’ve always put that movie in my top 10 — it’s one of those movies that you know you shouldn’t be watching, that it’s just so gross, but you can’t pull yourself away from it and you really, really want to be a part of it (on a deep down crazy emotional primal animal level). I WANT to make soap out from fat ass women and sell their fat asses right back to them!!! I want to!!!

Just Another Anonymous One

August 26th, 2011
10:52 am

I will cast my “polled” vote as a Tea Party member in favor of major cuts to Social Security and Medicare/Medicaid.

So you will cancel out the vote of a fellow tea party member that will vote to leave their social security and medicare alone. Big deal.

USinUK

August 26th, 2011
10:53 am

Screwed – “IF you espouse the GOP platform …” … IF IF IF … what part of IF do you not quite understand.

Generation$crewed

August 26th, 2011
10:53 am

“The thing is, I have the house space, and the resources to do it, and the iron clad stomach of a Gladiator (although lets not get into the puppy eating the trash and the aftermath thereof because that caused compromise even my steel stomach) — most people do not”

Whats sad is in my experience most people do have the space and resources (with minimal sacrafice) but do not have the stomach or the unselfishness.

Sorry if it seemed as if I was lecturing but from the tone of yours and getalife comments about it one would assume that you saw taking care of ones elders as a punishment and not a reward. I commend you for returning the favor of care to yours or others parents.

Stevie Ray

August 26th, 2011
10:54 am

Gee, everyday I read this column and 95% of what I read is the same everyday…Obama is a socialist Jimmy Carter and Bush was a idiotic war monger who is to blame for all of our current woes. No matter what the topic, it’s the same blather daily as any column is twisted to this end. My thought is that anyone who wants that job is suspect and the position itself has much less influence on current events than credit is given.

Bosch

August 26th, 2011
10:54 am

And ty,

Sorry, I got carried away. Please don’t call Tyler.

USinUK

August 26th, 2011
10:54 am

Bosch – 10:52 – werd.

getalife

August 26th, 2011
10:54 am

If you vote gop, you should have a plan to move your parents into your house and care for them like Bosch.

TruthBe

August 26th, 2011
10:56 am

Jay you are nothing but a mouthpiece for the corrupt lying democrat party. Obama can say anything and you sissies of the lamestreet media will give Obama a pass. Also because of your shameful “whiteguilt complex” that you media sissies have Obama and gang are free to say and do anything without be called out for their corruption and lies. Examples all the campaign lies and misdirections that this disgrace of a president said. And the outright racism of his attorney general Eric Holder that no one of you media sissies have said a thing about. Obama is not only the “Foodstamp President” but his administration is the most corrupt in all American history. Clinton, Bush, and Nixon are all saints compared to this liar Obama.

Bosch

August 26th, 2011
10:56 am

GS,

Can’t speak for getalife, but for me, if my tone seemed weird, I have a really good defense mechanism of making fun of myself and the life that is Bosch.

“but do not have the stomach or the unselfishness”

I have found that to be the biggest obstacle for most — body fluids are not for the weak. Humans stink, and can sometimes stink very bad.

joe

August 26th, 2011
10:56 am

Anyone who thinks we can continue spending as we have over the past 10 years needs a brain transplant…and you can add to that Obama’s spending over the past 3 years equals what was spent during the previous administration. His socialist policies don’t fit our capitalist system at all. If you are in need of a job, or a better job than the one you have now, you have zero reason to re-elect Obama, because under his watch, NOTHING will improve. Simple as that…

Joe the Plutocrat

August 26th, 2011
10:57 am

JAA), Roger – Wilco. If $100 trillion is the number we fear, well, we might as well shut ‘er down right now and go back to the gold standard (and all the wailing, gnashing of teeth and “medieval” stuff that will come with it). again, here’s what the enablers don’t realize; if we do get to a point where we are $100 trillion in debt “Medicare alone” we’ll be like $500 or $600 trillion in debt over all. I can see it now, a televised debate on should we “raise the debt ceiling to $602 trillion, or make some tough spending choices, so we can once and for all retire this debt…” That’s not a debt ceiling, that is the debt cosmos. Frankly, $15 trillion in 2011 scares me a whole lot more than $100 trillion in 3030 – of course in 3030 we’ll be able to go to the Avatar planet, take all their resources and wipe out the $100 trillion, lickidy split. Where’s Redneck C, I need a beer NOW!

Truth

August 26th, 2011
10:57 am

Jay:
Doesn’t matter, Obama is a one term President

USinUK

August 26th, 2011
10:58 am

“His socialist policies don’t fit our capitalist system at all.”

please go away

feel free to return once you understand the meaning of the word “socialist” because you obviously don’t know the first thing about it.

thank you.

TruthBe

August 26th, 2011
10:58 am

getalife, It’s better than throwing then out in the streets and under the bus like what happens in obamacare. You liberals are so full of yourselves.

Generation$crewed

August 26th, 2011
10:58 am

USinUK
August 26th, 2011
10:53 am

-That was your immediate response to me asking you what I believe. You claimed to know!
See…”
USinUK
August 26th, 2011
10:36 am
kayaker – we liberals KNOW what conservatives stand for – we don’t know need see a video
but thanks”
-So why would you need to include “If” unless you were using it in a rhetorical manor?
And you even shouted “KNOW” with the all caps!

Stevie Ray

August 26th, 2011
10:59 am

Adam, my point is all elected officials change positions and say virtually anything to get elected. Neither party has a corner on this market by far. Social Security and Medicare have become programs of FIRST choice for most relative to retirement and post-retirement medical. Not what originally intended. Would you agree that an independent audit would identify at least 15% administrative and fraud related waste?

getalife

August 26th, 2011
10:59 am

tb,

Will you move your parents in your house and take care of them or toss them in streets?

Joe the Plutocrat

August 26th, 2011
11:00 am

carlos, what, were you asleep from 2001-2009 (Bush years)? we were suppose to phase out the old Ponzi scheme and replace it with a de-regulated Ponzi scheme (stock market). what’s wrong with you?

Talking Head

August 26th, 2011
11:00 am

“Boil down who gets paid how much per person in the end, and compare that to ANY retirement system per person, and tell me what you come up with.”

if i were able to put the same % amount taken out of my paycheck it put it into the s&p, nasdaq, or dow jones…i guarantee you my retirement would be at least twice as much than what the government would have for me

Generation$crewed

August 26th, 2011
11:01 am

Bosch

“I have found that to be the biggest obstacle for most — body fluids are not for the weak. Humans stink, and can sometimes stink very bad.”

My point exactly! How sad is it that so many feel it is the role of others (gov’t through taxation) to pay for the care of their parents? Nevermind the fact that our parents didn’t seem to mind our stink and fluids when they raised us. Guess its a good thing they didn’t ship us off to homes for someone else to take care of us all.

Gordon

August 26th, 2011
11:01 am

JAAO at 10:49,

Go ahead and eliminate the Bush tax cuts. I don’t care. We both know liberals will be back at the trough wanting more almost immediately, but go ahead. It won’t solve the problem.

Your 3030 statement shows your ignorance. Just spend 5 minutes and look it up. You might be surprised.

Joe the Plutocrat

August 26th, 2011
11:02 am

Truth, yep, and as I said, if yoy wags on the right don’t trot out a better horse, he’s gonna be a 2 term president.

Bosch

August 26th, 2011
11:02 am

Oh and GS, part of the resources people have in order to do what we do is from Medicare – - without it, we couldn’t do it. If it weren’t for me and the OB, they would be out on the street with n’er a pot to piss in. In other words, there is no pensions, no trust funds, no savings to fall back on for their care from their end, and if it were up to us to pay for it, we’d be wiped out financially in less than six months.

getalife

August 26th, 2011
11:02 am

th,

If they did not bail them out, your retirement would be zero.

Then, you would toss your parents out on the streets when your party defaults.

Adam

August 26th, 2011
11:03 am

His socialist policies

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Thomas

August 26th, 2011
11:03 am

Cheney: I urged Bush to bomb Syria’s nuclear reactor, but he refused

He followed up with I also urged Bush to bomb New York as they are a blue state.

More to follow…….

Realist

August 26th, 2011
11:03 am

All this talk on SS & Medicare & health care in general is just leading to one thing: population control. If you ain’t rich with Daddy’s oil or drug money, you’re SOL. The illegals will take over being the servants of the rich and then what’s left of American will be taken over by China…..

Midori

August 26th, 2011
11:04 am

Gordon — about those tax cuts: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NN5cdoSEDkU

USinUK

August 26th, 2011
11:04 am

“And you even shouted “KNOW” with the all caps!”

oh. heavens! all caps!!! call out the poutrage police!!!

like I said, IF you’re a conservative who espouses the GOP platform (which, considering that’s what kayaker was talking about, since he was saying Rubio should be a GOP presidential candidate), then that is what you think.

Brosephus

August 26th, 2011
11:04 am

md

The way I see it, we’re pretty much f**ked either way. Things should begin to return to normal by the time my daughter’s going into high school, and she just turned 3.

TruthBe

August 26th, 2011
11:06 am

USinUk, For you information and others. The meaning of the word socialism aka”socialist” according to the dictionary is Political and economic theory advocating state ownership and control of the means of production, distribution, speech, and exchange. Total control by the state or federal governments.

Talking Head

August 26th, 2011
11:06 am

getalife,

i’m sorry you are so dependent on the government, maybe one day you will be free

Bosch

August 26th, 2011
11:07 am

GS,

“Nevermind the fact that our parents didn’t seem to mind our stink and fluids when they raised us.”

Just my observation, but baby poo (and doggie poo) and throw up is NOTHING compared to 90 year old poo and throw up.

Not even in the ballpark. Vicks Vapor Rub is not just for chest colds.

getalife

August 26th, 2011
11:07 am

Since you cons want to default to end SS and Medicare, look your parents in the eyes and tell them you will take care of them and listen to their responses.

They will be scared to death.

getalife

August 26th, 2011
11:08 am

th,

Tossing your parents on the streets is your answer right?

Dusty

August 26th, 2011
11:08 am

Well, well, what a surprise! Bookman is going to tell the GOP how to run their primaries. You would think he would spend his time telling Democrats how to make people forget Obama’s lead into economic “rock bottom” in our country.

But no! Let’s tell the GOP how to run their business.

Sure thing Bookman.! More “expert” advice.from the failing side. How about a little fault finding with your own Dems before you get to the GOP?.

Gordon

August 26th, 2011
11:08 am

“Utter nonsense. If Congress doesn’t do ANYTHING for the next ten years, and that includes not extending any tax cuts, then our budget problems get solved at the end of those ten years. Real numbers.”

BullHockey.

But this might surprise you. Simply cutting spending 1% (really cutting, not slowing the increase of growth) every year for the next 8 years would balance the budget. But balancing the current budget alone would not solve our problems. The difference in the long term costs of entitlements and what we are expected to receive based on current law is an unfunded liability. It is why private companies have to show that on their books. The government doesn’t, and those numbers are huge.

Stevie Ray

August 26th, 2011
11:08 am

Realist, you bring up an interesting point that nobody wants to touch. The fact is while I need to pass a test to drive my car, I can reproduce at will regardless of my citizenship, marriage, or financial status. Whether I can provide an environment favorable to my dependents is irrelevant. As a result, too many unsuspecting kids are brought into society at great disadvantage and thru no fault of their own, end up down wrong path and become drag on society. Where do you draw the line between “pursuit of happiness” and what could be argued as common sense?

Joe Mama

August 26th, 2011
11:09 am

Zedd — “Spin it anyway you want. Facts are facts and those whose said Perry wanted to secession were wrong. A spade is still a spade.”

Ever hear of “dogwhistle” politicking?

Bosch

August 26th, 2011
11:09 am

And with THAT — my daughter just called and has broken dress code — must take clothes to school, the little vixen’s shorts are too short!!

She’s got her mother’s legs, what can I say — you flaunt your obvious attributes, and they both have long nice ones — oh, that reminds me, I also need to run by the sporting goods store and get a wooden bat upgrade.

Girls.

Adam

August 26th, 2011
11:10 am

TruthBe: So is there anything out there that is suddenly TOTALLY state controlled under Obama?

Adam

August 26th, 2011
11:10 am

As of Page 4:

Anti-Obama posts = 6
Individual anti-Obama posters = 5
Anti-Bush posts = 3
Individual anti-Bush posters = 3
Fake posts meant to skew the results = 1

Mr Sunshine

August 26th, 2011
11:11 am

And SSI isnt a Ponzi scheme? Of course it is and it is being played on Americans by the US GOVT. In other words our glorious aHole leaders have spent the money and we are the Ponzis.

You and your liberal spin never cease to amaze. Perry, Romney or Bachman, it doesnt matter because your boy ObaManure is goin DOWN.

Brosephus

August 26th, 2011
11:11 am

Adam

TruthBe

August 26th, 2011
11:11 am

getalife, I would do the Christian thing and move my parents in and take care of them. My father has passed away, he was a war hero and served our Country well. Thank you! And how about you dear friend,would you do the right thing also?

Generation$crewed

August 26th, 2011
11:11 am

Bosch

August 26th, 2011
11:02 am
That is an issue that no amount of debate between us will resolve. I feel that is ones own responsibility to cover theri medical needs. Just my opinion. You see health care as more of a right. That is a fundamental difference will will have.

Can’t say if I’m right or you are. Its a matter of opinion. My family has done the best we could to account for as much of the cost as possible.

I also understand everyone could not or did not do this. There in lies the problem. However there are many who Could have saved more and were in a position to account for later life expenses.

Again I commend you at nt increasing the amount the gov would owe by placing them in a nursing facility, that would also have to be paid for. Every little bit of savings helps us younger folks have a better chance at a future on par or better than those of the past.

TruthBe

August 26th, 2011
11:12 am

Adam, Yes this economy is now ALL obama’s.

Keep Up the Good Fight!

August 26th, 2011
11:12 am

Bosch is suffering from “the hunter becomes the hunted” syndrome…..

Joe the Plutocrat

August 26th, 2011
11:12 am

TruthBe, thanks for the political science lesson. so, as I am wont to ask these days; where exactly do Merck, Goldman Sachs, Lockheed Martin, Wal-Mart, Coca-Cola, Archer Daniel Midland, et all fit into Obama’s nefarious “socialist” gameplan. we are not living in a socialist economy; we are serfs/peons in a capitalist oligarchy.

Talking Head

August 26th, 2011
11:13 am

getalife,

my parents have learned to not intrust their well being in the government and have made choices in their lives so that they won’t have to stick their hand out to the government…they tought me how to fish too

you can hold my hand if you want

Normal

August 26th, 2011
11:13 am

Interesting read…

http://www.thenation.com/article/162922/democrats-rural-rebellions

Dusty

August 26th, 2011
11:14 am

Well, Bosch, have you finished demeaning your older family members? Good that you took care of them (did they have the money?) Why ruin it by acting like a jerk?

Perhaps you would also like to tell us about your personal mishaps in the toiletry area. Well, don’t. You have already gone beyond desirable limits on conversation. We don’t need anymore.

TruthBe

August 26th, 2011
11:14 am

Got to go all, have fun and GOD bless you and your families.

Joe Mama

August 26th, 2011
11:14 am

Generation$crewed — “Unless tough decisions are made and my generation accepts the facts that we will not get an even trade on our SS investment.”

SS is not an investment and never has been. It’s insurance.

And if I live to 62, which I presume I will, I’ll never see a dime back on that fat term life policy I took out when I was 32. Are you upset about that, too?

Uncle Jed

August 26th, 2011
11:14 am

Social Security, he wrote, is a “Ponzi scheme,” “a crumbling monument to the failure of the New Deal” created “at the expense of respect for the Constitution and limited government.”

+++++++++++++++++++

I think I can agree with the part about Ponzi scheme. It does appear to be just that. As another poster pointed out, all candidates, even the incumbent will need to address the subject in the campaign/debates. I predict that all, even the incumbent, will suggest raising the eligibility age at some point and reigning in disability fraud, etc. I think that if someone can get some traction on the concept of allowing a portion of one’s account to be set aside for guaranteed higher yielding investment options with a modecum of personally directed control it will be a winner with the peeps.

sam

August 26th, 2011
11:14 am

what is social security adn medicare?

ty webb

August 26th, 2011
11:14 am

in other news…how “racist” is hurricane irene?

jm

August 26th, 2011
11:15 am

Jay 10:42 – after adjusting for taxes and cost of living, one is much better off in TX. Trust me. I got more than a few relatives there.

getalife

August 26th, 2011
11:15 am

tb,

If the grandparents are alive, move them in too.

My answer is yes but millions of Americans can’t afford it so millions of Seniors are on the streets.

This is not Christian.

Real Christians would never want their family on the streets and some preachers are taking the heat for speaking this truth from the unhinged cons.

Adam

August 26th, 2011
11:15 am

TruthBe: Adam, Yes this economy is now ALL obama’s.

Weak. Very weak.

JKL2

August 26th, 2011
11:15 am

Jay- It’s going to be fascinating to see how that language plays out politically.

Translation: The evil Republicans want to take away your Social Security and Healthcare. Vote for the party of free handouts.

AmVet

August 26th, 2011
11:16 am

“i’m sorry you are so dependent on the government…”

Oy.

Rhetorical question of the day.

Why are so many of the right wing Christians on this blog so hateful and un-Christianlike?

Just Another Anonymous One

August 26th, 2011
11:16 am

Your 3030 statement shows your ignorance. Just spend 5 minutes and look it up. You might be surprised.

Or better yet, why don’t you back up your statement regarding that 100 trillion dollar unfunded medicare tab. Go ahead. Take five minutes, six if you like. Surprise us and do it in four.

USinUK

August 26th, 2011
11:16 am

TruthBe – thank you for so thoroughly proving my point that the people who call Obama socialist don’t have the first clue what the word truly means.

Generation$crewed

August 26th, 2011
11:17 am

Joe Mama

August 26th, 2011
11:14 am

Did someone force you to take out that life insurance policy?

cause they take SS straight out my check and I have no choice in the matter.

Be responsible for your own decision. I was never consulted or asked about my preference to purchase SS insurnace.
So you wanna compare some apples to these oranges over here in a little bit?

Generation$crewed

August 26th, 2011
11:18 am

USinUK

August 26th, 2011
11:16 am

Kinda how you don’t KNOW (notice I used caps too) what conservatives think?

Jimmy62

August 26th, 2011
11:18 am

Can you please explain how Social Security is NOT a Ponzi scheme? You mock people for calling it a Ponzi scheme, but provide no logic as to why you think it’s not.

A Ponzi scheme is an investment fraud that works fine until you run out of new investors. For SS, the investors are new workers. Since there are less new workers than there are retirees and soon-to-be retirees, then you are running out of new investors, and the whole scheme is falling apart. It’s a Ponzi scheme any way you look at it.

Keep Up the Good Fight!

August 26th, 2011
11:18 am

How exactly is SS a “free handout” given that its completely funded by employment taxes?

Joe Mama

August 26th, 2011
11:19 am

Is TruthBe like Jay’s blogmascot or something?

Adam

August 26th, 2011
11:19 am

USinUK @11:16 am

Midori

August 26th, 2011
11:19 am

USinUK – Jon Stewart would agree with you.

He did a hilarious bit on that last week.

TruthBe – thank you for so thoroughly proving my point that the people who call Obama socialist don’t have the first clue what the word truly means.

USinUK

August 26th, 2011
11:20 am

Screwed – if they espouse the GOP platform, I do.

as do we all.

jm

August 26th, 2011
11:20 am

Social Security really does resemble a policy scheme, at the mechanical level, no doubt about it.

Thomas

August 26th, 2011
11:20 am

How exactly is SS a “free handout” given that its completely funded by employment taxes?

We continue to move to a paradigm that those who fund don’t receive and those who fund a little bit receive the majority.

USinUK

August 26th, 2011
11:20 am

Midori – I saw it – laugh flippin RIOT

jm

August 26th, 2011
11:20 am

policy =ponzi

typo, oy

Talking Head

August 26th, 2011
11:20 am

amvet,

what does being dependent on the governement have anything to do with Christianity or any other religion for that matter?

Joe Mama

August 26th, 2011
11:21 am

G$ — “Did someone force you to take out that life insurance policy?”

Irrelevant to your contention that SS is a bad “investment.”

“cause they take SS straight out my check and I have no choice in the matter.”

Again, irrelevant.

“Be responsible for your own decision. I was never consulted or asked about my preference to purchase SS insurnace.”

What’s that got to do with the fact that you’re wrong about SS being an “investment?”

“So you wanna compare some apples to these oranges over here in a little bit?”

You’re the one comparing an insurance program to an investment, not me. Perhaps you should pay a little more attention to the difference between the apples and oranges in this discussion, because I just had to point out a very key distinction between them to you.

USinUK

August 26th, 2011
11:21 am

jm – it’s friday. all typos are forgiven

as they are on monday, as well

Tues, Wed and Thurs, however … it’s -15 points.

kayaker 71

August 26th, 2011
11:22 am

USinUK,

I too have a daughter who lives in Portland, OR who is about as liberal as they come. We bicker with each other in much too long telephone conversations about our differences in ideology but granted, she is not the enemy. Perhaps a poor choice of words on my part. But she is reasonable in her objection, able to realize that anyone can be wrong and willing to engage in give and take. Not like the typical liberal love fest on this blog where anyone with a different idea is the devil incarnate and is hopefully mired on the dark side. Guess it goes both ways.

getalife

August 26th, 2011
11:22 am

Yeah, run perry on defaulting to end Medicare and SS.

You will lose in a landslide .

Go for it cons and end your party for good.

Adam

August 26th, 2011
11:22 am

Jimmy62: People have been calling it a Ponzi scheme long before we had this recession. They were wrong then, and they are still wrong now unless ALL insurance programs are Ponzi schemes. In which case, you better save up yourself and forget about having any kind of insurance for anything, right?

Atlanta1

August 26th, 2011
11:22 am

Confirmation that Perry is a threat. Let the organized trashing begin…

Joe the Plutocrat

August 26th, 2011
11:23 am

Talking Head, who cares who can fish and who cannot fish? do you understand that the oligarchs OWN THE FISH (or pond/ocean)? everyone keeps on talking about “spending” and “entitlements” as if the money simply vanishes into thin air. as I said, the money is “created” out of thin air by the Federal Reserve Bank and it flows through the economy, where it is registered as a debt on our national tab, and INCOME/REVENUE on the oligarchs balance sheets. and since, half the oligarchs now do their taxes “oversees” or benefit from tax breaks and loopholes “over here” a sginifcant portion of the the $$$ does not re-cyle through the economy. how many times do I have to SAY IT? when social security funds are disbursed, the recipients use those funds to buy good and services, ergo; the bulk of the “wealth” is redistributed vertically as oposed to horizontally. this is what is meant by “spreading the wealth”. think of it as fertilizer (and spare me the B.S. jokes). if you have a 200 sq. foot garden, with tomatoes and sweet potatoes and corn and beets, you don’t dump your entire cache of fertilizer on one plant or one crop; you spread it around, harvest your produce, and use the revenue to purchase more seeds and fertilizer, as well as some of Redneck Convert’s beer (and maybe even a JB Travelin’ Music greatest hits CD).

Joe Mama

August 26th, 2011
11:23 am

Jimmy62 — “A Ponzi scheme is an investment fraud”

And that’s the distinction you’re looking for right there. SS isn’t an investment.

Look up the term OASDI. See what that “I” stands for.

AmVet

August 26th, 2011
11:23 am

The two points were unrelated.

For example, as an American you are dependent on the government, but I have no clue if you are a Christian or not…

Generation$crewed

August 26th, 2011
11:23 am

USinUK

August 26th, 2011
11:20 am

Again you said conservative. Do I need to go show you again?

You do understand that not all consevatives are republicans just like not all liberals are democrats?

And all republicans are not conservative in all aspects.

Just like not all democrats are liberal in all aspects, don’t you?

jm

August 26th, 2011
11:24 am

“it’s -15 points”

Is Jay going to start putting up a scoreboard? Awesome….

Adam

August 26th, 2011
11:24 am

Up to the end of Page 5 results:

Anti-Obama posts = 9
Individual anti-Obama posters = 8
Anti-Bush posts = 3
Individual anti-Bush posters = 3
Posts meant to skew the results = 2

New since Page 4 results:

Dusty @ 11:08a – anti-Obama
kayaker @ 10:10a – found a “bozo” mention so I had to update the previous tally.
Mr. Sunshine @ 11:11a – ObaManure. nice…
TruthBe @11:12a – Technically this one doesn’t count because I provoked it so it’s added to the “skew the results” list.
NO new anti-Bush posts on page 5.

No Dave R, or I would be searching for TMs.

Redneck

August 26th, 2011
11:25 am

No Jay, Tea Party people know that Medicare and Social Security get their funding from a direct tax paid by the taxpayers. No so for mediacaid, foodstamps, TANF, housing, WIC, etc which comes from general taxation.

If you word your question differently regarding Medicare and Social Security you may get a different answer.

Just saying, you know?

williebkind

August 26th, 2011
11:25 am

Well, Jay is playing his role as a dependable liberal media person. The subject should be Obama and how he is not performing–does he even play bogey golf. Instead Jay and the liberal media is slamming potential candidates who are not in control of anything at this time. Americans without jobs are secondary to liberals. That means the unemployed are depending on the government for a living. Yes, they liberals are fine at swapping statistics that mean nothing. They will even skew the input data to control the outccome. I do get the feeling there is a division among the liberals and many are going to sit at home during the election but that is just me. The conservatives have to defend themselves against the mainstream lame medias and many bloggers. Did you hear some more liberal medias have failed or went under? Yep those internet sites had to close. I am reasoning that statistics like 98% saw the site but only 2% participated did not provide enough funds without government grants. The liberal spin on that is a whopping 98% of internet users learn about that site. Hehe. Liberals sure are funny.

USinUK

August 26th, 2011
11:25 am

kayaker – 11:22 – it sounds like you and your daughter have the same convos I have with my dad when we talk politics!

( hey! waitaminnit!! maybe he really isn’t deaf after all – maybe he’s just pretending not to hear me!)

getalife

August 26th, 2011
11:25 am

GS,

Post your positions on the issues and it will probably show you are a con.

Adam

August 26th, 2011
11:26 am

OH OH WAIT! Jay wrote about Perry and Romney. You can tell who liberals fear by…..

Generation$crewed

August 26th, 2011
11:26 am

Joe Mama

August 26th, 2011
11:21 am

Insurance is an investment.

By nearly every concievable definition of investment.

But hey.

If you think that you choosing to buy a life insurance policy is the same thing as being forced to pay into SS then I am really not sure if you can be helped.

jm

August 26th, 2011
11:26 am

Adam

“unless ALL insurance programs are Ponzi schemes”

You’re factually wrong, my friend. Insurance funds purchase assets that are available to pay off liabilities. No such thing occurs in Social Security.

USinUK

August 26th, 2011
11:26 am

jm – yes … and the person with the worst record at the end of the day is going to have to clap erasers

Talking Head

August 26th, 2011
11:26 am

Joe,

I agree with your assessment of the Fed…however, I am making the basic point that we should not be dependent on government to determine the course of our lives…make your own choices, learn to be self sufficient, personal responsibility…God I love this country!

Adam

August 26th, 2011
11:27 am

Genaration$crewed: You do understand that not all consevatives are republicans just like not all liberals are democrats?

And all republicans are not conservative in all aspects.

Just like not all democrats are liberal in all aspects, don’t you?

Statistical outliers don’t help make a good counterpoint.

yuzeyurbrane

August 26th, 2011
11:27 am

Good analysis. Also, Teapeople will dominate Repub. primaries. So Perry is the winner. But American people won’t drink this Kool-aid in general election.

JKL2

August 26th, 2011
11:27 am

getalife- Since you cons want to default to end SS and Medicare, look your parents in the eyes and tell them you will take care of them and listen to their responses.

My parents are set as they have always been very frugal. They currently take care of my grandmother. We are already set to take care of my mother-in-law when the time comes that she feels it’s necesary (she’s 74). Her other 6 children are deadbeats and have no interest in the matter, so the writing has been on the wall for several years that this is how it will all play out.

Sorry your fellow constituents don’t feel the need to take any personal responsibility for their families. Hard enough to get them to take responsibility for their children, let alone parents…

PS: feel free to call me a racist and flame away to deflect from my point.

Generation$crewed

August 26th, 2011
11:28 am

getalife

August 26th, 2011
11:25 am

Which issue you wann know about? Posted a pretty indepth set of ideas about 6 or 7 blogs ago, on defiiet reduction and other economical ideas.

Might be surprised at it all. Certainly wouldn’t say it would make me a con.

You got an ideas to help or are you just here to b*tchabout those who you disagree with?

USinUK

August 26th, 2011
11:28 am

jm – “Insurance funds purchase assets that are available to pay off liabilities. No such thing occurs in Social Security.”

wrong – the SS trust fund holds $2.7 Trillion in US debt

Adam

August 26th, 2011
11:28 am

jm: You would be correct that I was factually wrong if I actually was saying that all insurance is a Ponzi scheme. In fact, I was pointing out this is not the case, and it is also not the case with Social Security.

TruthBe

August 26th, 2011
11:29 am

Joe the Plutocrat

August 26th, 2011
11:12 am
TruthBe, thanks for the political science lesson. so, as I am wont to ask these days; where exactly do Merck, Goldman Sachs, Lockheed Martin, Wal-Mart, Coca-Cola, Archer Daniel Midland, et all fit into Obama’s nefarious “socialist” gameplan. we are not living in a socialist economy; we are serfs/peons in a capitalist oligarchy.
Government controls their money in the form of taxation for the start. Restrictions, laws and bylaws, who they can sell to and where. You know stuff like that for example. Also since you listed Goldman Sachs you should read about the inside deal that the obama administration gave to Warren Buffet. No wonder Buffet’s up obama’s ass. I would too if I was given a inside trader deal on Goldman Sachs for 5 billion. Lets see how much is Goldman sachs worth today after we the taxplayers bailed them out. 200 billion? And Warren and company controls them because they got all the best voting stocks and were given control of Goldman Sachs.No other large investor was given the same deal or opportunity Read a little more and some names like Shore Bank of Chicago, Climate Change Carbon Credit exchange, Chicago Excahange, Brokerage deal with Goldman Sachs, 4% worldwide commissions would come up. Yes folks it’s the oldest game in town the rich get richer by using their money and influence to bull politicans like little ole obama and the rest. Remember the golden rule” He who has the gold,Rules”.

Jimmy62

August 26th, 2011
11:30 am

Joe Mama- What SS was officially named when it started has nothing to do with what it is now. It’s not insurance, and it’s not the same program it was when it was first created (for one thing, there was none of this mysterious empty “lockbox” stuff back then, and benefits were tied closely to estimated lifespans, which they are not at all anymore). If anything, it’s a massive transfer of wealth from black people (who tend to have lower lifespans) to white people (who tend to live longer past retirement age).

getalife

August 26th, 2011
11:30 am

th,

Personal responsibility is not blaming our President for the deficit and gop disasters.

When will you start using personal responsibility for your party’s destruction of our country?

Adam

August 26th, 2011
11:30 am

yuzeyurbrane: But American people won’t drink this Kool-aid in general election.

TEA, yuze, TEA. They won’t drink the TEA in a general election.

AmVet

August 26th, 2011
11:31 am

Yep, the suddenly enlightened cons are no longer Republicans.

Or is it, the suddenly enlightened Republicans are no longer cons?

Hysterical…

Disgusted

August 26th, 2011
11:31 am

My point exactly! How sad is it that so many feel it is the role of others (gov’t through taxation) to pay for the care of their parents? Nevermind the fact that our parents didn’t seem to mind our stink and fluids when they raised us. Guess its a good thing they didn’t ship us off to homes for someone else to take care of us all.

Parents, hell! I’ve been changing the diapers of my paralyzed wife for months now. This current stinking so-called healthcare system makes no provision for help in that regard. If you’re a working stiff and you don’t qualify for Medicaid, you’re on your own. Obamacare can’t possibly be worse than what we have now. The only time I see home health care workers is when they drop in for so-called therapy, spend 20 minutes, then bill Medicare $107 for that visit. And we’re lucky to have Medicare. Our private health insurance won’t cover such visits, in spite of the fact that it costs $14,000 per year. And you think that’s superior to anything else on the horizon?

You’re one deluded soul. The only people benefiting from the present system are the parasites—people like Dusty, Bruno, and thousands of others who make their living off the misfortunes of others. I say bring on single payer!

Generation$crewed

August 26th, 2011
11:31 am

Adam

August 26th, 2011
11:27 am

Only if it is to counter the proclaimation of another, such as one who claims to know what conservatives think. Especially if that person then goes and changes what conservatives think to now making all conservatives to espouse the ideas of the GOP.

That is factually not true. Unless you can show me how that is true?

USinUK

August 26th, 2011
11:32 am

jm – http://www.cnbc.com/id/29880401/The_Biggest_Holders_of_US_Government_Debt?slide=16

jm

August 26th, 2011
11:32 am

USinUK

“wrong – the SS trust fund holds $2.7 Trillion in US debt”

Soooo, insurance companies are just allowed to hold their own bonds and count those as assets? Try again. When I owe myself money, I don’t get to count that as an asset but not a liability USinUK.

getalife

August 26th, 2011
11:32 am

GS,

I guess you posted under another name because this is the first time I have you seen you.

On this issue, you are a con but say you will not toss your parents on the streets.

Good for you.

Jimmy62

August 26th, 2011
11:32 am

JKL2: Who said we want to default or end SS? You did. Most of us conservatives and libertarians and Tea Party types just want benefits adjusted to match expected lifespans, which SS did when it was created but is no longer anywhere close to being tied to expected lifespans. And I’d love to see you find where anyone ever said that we should default.

Dusty

August 26th, 2011
11:33 am

USinUK says that people who call Obama a socialist have no idea what it means.

Could be. Democrats are the ones who promote socialism so they must know more about it than others.. Do we have a suggestion that Obama is not socialistic? Is that possible?

jm

August 26th, 2011
11:33 am

Adam 11:28 – you were offering that as evidence of a rebuttal to the argument that SS isn’t a ponzi.

Your evidence and assertion were wrong.

USinUK

August 26th, 2011
11:33 am

the SSTF /= the US Treasury.

getalife

August 26th, 2011
11:34 am

jk,

Over 14 million Americans lost their jobs in the w collapse.

What about their parents?

It’s not about you me generation.

Talking Head

August 26th, 2011
11:34 am

“When will you start using personal responsibility for your party’s destruction of our country?”

I’ve said several times that I don’t and didn’t approve of Bush’s second term and his big spending agenda. However, looking back at historical deficit spending, you will see that spending began to skyrocekt in 2008 with legislation passed by a dem controlled congress.

When will you except reality?

Generation$crewed

August 26th, 2011
11:35 am

Disgusted

August 26th, 2011
11:31 am

I have no problem with you or your wife collecting benfits. I am only advocating that those who do not need the benefits, need not take them and that currently is not the case.

Don’t know how that makes me a deluded soul?

But if it made you feel any better to rant at me, I am glad i could help with a problem I did nothing to casue nor advocate. Hope you feel better.

jm

August 26th, 2011
11:35 am

Ok, folks. For those not quite up to speed on finance 101, let me explain something.

IF the SS trust fund held assets other than their own debt, then one could legitimately say there is a trust fund with value. If they held foreign bonds, corporate bonds, real estate, etc etc etc., then there would really be a trust fund.

When you owe yourself money, that’s not a trust fund. That’s fraud (if you try to declare it as an asset but not a liability). Or a ponzi.

getalife

August 26th, 2011
11:36 am

th,

When will you take personal responsibility and admit the money was spent on the w collapse?

AmVet

August 26th, 2011
11:36 am

One for each side of the ledger, Adam!

George Jr, aka the Uppity Muslim Kenyan Marxist, is an acolyte of his all white uncle – GeeDub.

They, like most in Washington have used socialism to bail out capitalism.

Few choices after the attempted corporate destruction thereof…

jm

August 26th, 2011
11:37 am

For the really daft, answer this:

If you go borrow $1million and then put it in the bank, are you a trust fund baby?

No points for the correct answer, just some shred of credibility if you’re a liberal.

USinUK

August 26th, 2011
11:37 am

“Democrats are the ones who promote socialism”

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand I stopped reading …

Adam

August 26th, 2011
11:38 am

Jimmy62: And I’d love to see you find where anyone ever said that we should default.

Sometimes it’s almost too easy….

Ron Paul
Punditry

Both have videos to prove it.

Talking Head

August 26th, 2011
11:38 am

get,

money spent on the w collapse, spent by dems

getalife

August 26th, 2011
11:38 am

Go for it th.

Lets hear what he spent the money on..

Adam

August 26th, 2011
11:39 am

jm: Your evidence and assertion were wrong.

So my evidence and assertion that insurance isn’t a Ponzi scheme is wrong?

jm

August 26th, 2011
11:39 am

“aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand I stopped reading …”

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaand you probably stopped doing that long ago. Would explain a lot actually.

Joe Mama

August 26th, 2011
11:40 am

G$ — “Insurance is an investment. By nearly every concievable definition of investment.”

No, it’s not.

If you take out a term life policy, you should be fully aware that you can outlive the policy term and receive NOTHING in return for your payments. If you buy a term life policy and DON’T realize that, then you’ve got no business buying life insurance anyway.

“But hey. If you think that you choosing to buy a life insurance policy is the same thing as being forced to pay into SS then I am really not sure if you can be helped.”

I neither said nor thought such a thing. But hey. If you’re going to engage in discussion by putting words in my mouth and thoughts in my head, then I’m pretty sure that *you* can’t be helped at all.

I pointed out that SS *is* an insurance policy, not an investment. YOU made up and attributed the mistaken claim above to me, and I’d appreciate you showing a greater degree of honesty and character if we’re going to engage in discussion.

Dusty

August 26th, 2011
11:41 am

USinUK

You are so cute! “Laugh flippin’ riot!” That will make me think of liberals here everytime I read it.

jm

August 26th, 2011
11:41 am

Adam, that wasn’t your assertion. Your assertion was three fold.

1. Social Security is an insurance program
2. Insurance isn’t a ponzi scheme
3. Therefore, Social Security isn’t a ponzi.

Item 2 in your logic is correct. Item 1 and 3 are completely wrong. Try again dude.

Adam

August 26th, 2011
11:41 am

Up to the end of Page 6 results:

Anti-Obama posts = 10
Individual anti-Obama posters = 8
Anti-Bush posts = 3
Individual anti-Bush posters = 3
Posts meant to skew the results = 2

New since Page 5 results:

TruthBe (AWARD WINNER) @ 11:29a – Congratulations, you are the most anti-Obama poster today. Be sure to write the RNC to claim your check.

Generation$crewed

August 26th, 2011
11:41 am

getalife

August 26th, 2011
11:32 am

No posted under same name except changed the S to a $ cause it kept getting caught and not posting my comments, hasn’t happened since the change.

Paul asked for my ideas he was given them.

And no I would not throw my parnets out in the street. They didn’t do that to me as a baby, I wouldn’t do that to them.

getalife

August 26th, 2011
11:34 am
May be the W collapse. Thats fine. But what has the presidnet one lately to change that trend?

Shovel ready was not so shovel ready, and I haven’t seen a plan lately from him have you?

Still doesn’t change my position that there are many benefiting from medicare and SS that don’t really need it. they simply abuse it because it makes their life a little easier.

oldguy

August 26th, 2011
11:41 am

OK,
The truth
SS became a Ponzi scheme when LBJ and the Democrats STOLE the trust fund money in 1963 to pay for the “Great Society!” and the Vietnam war. Now all contributions go into the general tax rev fund!
SOOOO Perry is correct but since the government Forced us to pay into the scheme all these years we have no choice but to find some way to keep it afloat.
Medicare- Obozo says there are Billions in savings to be had by stoping fraud (see his Obozocare fiasco). OK Sport……SHOW US!! SHOW US THE SAVINGS and them reinvest them into the program to make it solvent instead of stealing them to bribe your non-participent voters!!!
Have to go move furnature…..later!

Joe Mama

August 26th, 2011
11:41 am

jm — “You’re factually wrong, my friend. Insurance funds purchase assets that are available to pay off liabilities. No such thing occurs in Social Security.”

The payments and investment proceeds from customers who DON’T make a claim simply go back to the pot in order to pay customers who DO make claims.

Insurance = Social Security.

Talking Head

August 26th, 2011
11:42 am

get,

yes, what did the dems spend all that money on?

Generation$crewed

August 26th, 2011
11:42 am

Adam

August 26th, 2011
11:41 am

You didn’t count the “w collapse” by getalife at 11:34.

wouldn’t want you to have an artifical count.

getalife

August 26th, 2011
11:43 am

Come on th,

Use some personal responsibility and tell me what he spent the money on.

Never use those words again because he had to toss the kicken sink at the w collapse to save your 401k.

You take no personal responsibility for your party’s disasters.

jm

August 26th, 2011
11:44 am

“The payments and investment proceeds from customers who DON’T make a claim simply go back to the pot in order to pay customers who DO make claims.

Insurance = Social Security.”

Ahhh, the stupid it hurts. Between USinUK, Adam and Joe Mama, its enough to make me want to do what USinUK loves to do, go bang head on keyboard repeatedly.

But I’m smarter than that. Instead, I’m going to go lunch and a cappuccino.

oldguy

August 26th, 2011
11:44 am

Adam,
+1 to the anti-obozo posters!

Uncle Jed

August 26th, 2011
11:44 am

Perry had the following to say about his thoughts on Social Security and it seems to make some sense when read sans a pre-conceived bias. I hope we can all agree that something needs to be done to shore up the entitlement programs. The status quo=down they go. I am not a big fan of Perry, at least not at this point, but he is willing, even if ill-advised, to discuss big issues. That may not serve him well in the whacked out system our election process has become, but…

Rick Perry defends stance on Social Security

By Maeve Reston

2:18 p.m. EDT, August 18, 2011
Reporting from Dover, N.H. — Texas Gov. Rick Perry told a voter in Dover, New Hampshire Thursday that he had no plans to change the Social Security system for those who are nearing the point where they would receive benefits.

“You don’t have to worry about anything,” Perry told an older man who asked him to explain his position during a visit to Harvey’s, a coffee shop in Dover. “There’s not going to be any changes in the program that we’ve got for folks that are your age. We’ll have a conversation with the rest of the country about what is the age that we start transitioning away from the program we’ve got now.”

“The folks who are either on or soon to be on, they don’t have anything to worry about. The program is going to be there,” he said.

Elections Earlier in Portsmouth, Perry faced a small crowd of protesters who took issue with what they described as his past statements questioning the constitutionality of Social Security.

In an interview last fall with Newsweek’s Andrew Romano, Perry questioned whether the Constitution gave Congress the power to enact Social Security.

“I don’t think our founding fathers when they were putting the term ‘general welfare’ in there were thinking about a federally operated program of pensions nor a federally operated program of health care,” Perry said, according to an interview trancript released last week by The Daily Beast. “What they clearly said was that those were issues that the states need to address. Not the federal government. I stand very clear on that. From my perspective, the states could substantially better operate those programs if that’s what those states decided to do.”

In his book, “Fed Up!: Our Fight to Save America from Washington,” Perry refers to Social Security as “an illegal Ponzi scheme.”

“Now, if you say Social Security is a failure, as I have just done, you will inherit the wind of political scorn,” Perry wrote. “Seniors might think you want to cut the benefits they have paid for. Politicians will seek to take advantage, stirring up fear about benefits that will be lost if you elect another ‘heartless Republican.’ I get it. That’s why only retired senators chair entitlement commissions.”

http://www.fox8.com/news/politics/la-pn-rick-perry-defends-stance-on-social-security-20110818,0,5596772.story

Adam

August 26th, 2011
11:44 am

jm: I made no such assertion. I referenced all insurance programs, but did not specify Social Security as an insurance program.

But I am now. That’s exactly what it is. You claiming that outside assets other than the tax need to be there to make the difference between what’s a Ponzi scheme and what isn’t is where the fault lies, not with my assertions.

md

August 26th, 2011
11:44 am

“You’re the one comparing an insurance program to an investment”

Depends if we are talking “whole” or “term”………one IS an investment.

Adam

August 26th, 2011
11:45 am

Generation$crewed: Whoops! Added to the page 7 adjustment upcoming

Generation$crewed

August 26th, 2011
11:46 am

AmVet

August 26th, 2011
11:31 am

Are all liberals demcrats?

BTW I’m only 30. The only time I ever was registered with a party was in college and I was a democrat then.

How does that work into your hysterical joke?

You need to understand that many in the younger generations currently 18-35 care waay more about the issue and ideas than we do about the political party. That is something your generation got into not so much ours.

jm

August 26th, 2011
11:47 am

“I referenced all insurance programs, but did not specify Social Security as an insurance program.

But I am now. That’s exactly what it is.”

Do liberals realize just how silly they look twisting in the wind? Do they understand facts at all or just feel a certain way, and make things up to justify it?

Answer to first question must be no, but the second appears to be yes.

USinUK

August 26th, 2011
11:47 am

“Be sure to write the RNC to claim your check.”

I thought they got a toaster.

Joe Mama

August 26th, 2011
11:47 am

Jimmy62 — “Joe Mama- What SS was officially named when it started has nothing to do with what it is now.”

Educate yourself, Jimmy. It’s STILL called OASDI.

“It’s not insurance”

Yes, it is.

“and it’s not the same program it was when it was first created (for one thing, there was none of this mysterious empty “lockbox” stuff back then”

The “lockbox” never happened. Presidential candidate Al Gore advocated locking SS funds away so that the government COULDN’T borrow from it any more, and conservative pols and commenters alike howled with derision at his idea. Since Gore didn’t get elected, his idea was never implemented.

“and benefits were tied closely to estimated lifespans, which they are not at all anymore). If anything, it’s a massive transfer of wealth from black people (who tend to have lower lifespans) to white people (who tend to live longer past retirement age).”

I don’t think you will find many liberals who are opposed to making small changes to SS now in order to keep it solvent into the future. They may differ on specifics, but there’s no reason that small adjustments can’t be made to share the pain among all stakeholders in the matter. That way, no one group would get screwed.

jm

August 26th, 2011
11:48 am

Adam really dude. I wouldn’t walk out of your house. Its dangerous out there for the unprepared and dim.

Really, out now.

Adam

August 26th, 2011
11:48 am

Generation$crewed: Shovel ready was not so shovel ready, and I haven’t seen a plan lately from him have you?

I can’t wait until “Where’s your plan?” Turns into “It took to long to come up with a plan!”

Just like it took too long to kill Osama bin Laden, and it took too long to release that birth certificate.

getalife

August 26th, 2011
11:48 am

gs,

You are a con.

Look at the jobs added. Two million jobs added trying to recover the over 14 million w lost.

Then your party took the economy hostage to give us our first downgrade.

Their strategy was to stop the recovery for this election and your cons will reward your terrorist party for this unAmerican action.

That is the cold hard truth.

Joe Mama

August 26th, 2011
11:49 am

jm — “Soooo, insurance companies are just allowed to hold their own bonds and count those as assets? Try again. When I owe myself money, I don’t get to count that as an asset but not a liability USinUK.”

Surely you are not saying that US government debt is worthless, are you?

Uncle Jed

August 26th, 2011
11:49 am

Adam

August 26th, 2011
11:41 am
Up to the end of Page 6 results:

+++++++++++++++++++++++++

Thank goodness one amongst us is willing to do the heavy lifting of being the unofficial scorekeeper.

Bless your heart, Adam.

Talking Head

August 26th, 2011
11:49 am

get,

just to make sure you know a little something about our government, can you tell me who explicitly determines how much to spend (or not spend)?

Lib In Cobb

August 26th, 2011
11:50 am

Perry will never make it through the primaries. There is an enormous amount of BS following him, which will eventually hurt him. The GOP is a Freak Show right now with a few semi-normals added in.

jm

August 26th, 2011
11:50 am

Jay

darnit. now i have to stay

“In other words, for almost 30 years the working and middle classes have been paying a surtax on their income that the rich were largely excluded from paying.

Do I have that right?”

Yes I agree. Taxpayers were robbed. People should PO’d about having their taxes looted. I accept that.

Now, one has to look at the current situation with massively ballooning deficits and say: what are we going to do to fix it?

Adam

August 26th, 2011
11:50 am

jm: make things up to justify it?

pot, meet kettle. That’s exactly what you did to justify your unsubstantiated claim that SS is a Ponzi scheme. You defined both Ponzi scheme and insurance programs incorrectly.

Adam

August 26th, 2011
11:51 am

jm: darnit. now i have to stay

No you don’t. You can just up and leave and do what you need to do, and come back later. Lots of us do that and it’s fine!

Adam

August 26th, 2011
11:52 am

Uncle Jed: I’ll keep doing it until I get enough of you to admit more people bash Obama than Bush here. And this is supposedly a liberal cesspool of hate!

jm

August 26th, 2011
11:53 am

Jay – and to follow up, the reason it sucks but there’s not much you can do about it is: the people who benefited from the looting are mostly dead, or in retirement. And since changing benefits for current retirees is off the table according to both parties…..

That leaves fixing the problem on the back of current workers (which includes me obviously). I am willing to accept it, liberals don’t

Uncle Jed

August 26th, 2011
11:53 am

Adam-

Staying on topic here: Perry knows Social Security needs re-tooling and he also knows that Obama is the head of a failed administration. There, it was said. Add it to your tally

getalife

August 26th, 2011
11:53 am

th,

I follow American politics very closely.

You have to do better than that or I will ignore you.

I doubt you watch c span when they are in session.

I do so step up your game.

jm

August 26th, 2011
11:53 am

now have to go, will check this later.

Adam

August 26th, 2011
11:53 am

Seriously, more cons come on here to bash Obama than I see on just about ANY OTHER liberal blog I have been to. What exactly are you trying to prove?

TruthBe

August 26th, 2011
11:54 am

TruthBe: Adam, Yes this economy is now ALL obama’s.

Weak. Very weak.
If you are referring to the economy, yes it is weak. But this economy is ALL Obama’s little boy Adam.

Adam

August 26th, 2011
11:54 am

Uncle Jed: There’s a reason I have a “Posts meant to skew the results” tally

md

August 26th, 2011
11:55 am

“Surely you are not saying that US government debt is worthless, are you?”

Well………S&P says worth “not as much”………..and heading down……………

We best figure out a way to shore it up………..or it may end up worthless.

Adam

August 26th, 2011
11:55 am

TruthBe: I’m referring to your response to my post. Assigning the entire economy to Obama is not only intellectually dishonest, it also has NOTHING to do with socialism.

Uncle Jed

August 26th, 2011
11:55 am

And this is supposedly a liberal cesspool of hate!

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Jay will not be pleased

Adam

August 26th, 2011
11:56 am

Uncle Jed:

Talking Head

August 26th, 2011
11:57 am

get,

ok since you obviously don’t know, i will tell you

Congress, Congress explicitly determines how much to spend (or not spend).

Now since you are a follower of politics, can you tell me which party controlled Congress, the body that explicitly determines how much to spend (or not spend), from Jan 2007 to Jan 2011? Can you also tell me what the deficits were for those years?

John Birch

August 26th, 2011
11:57 am

SS – Take off the cap make every dime of earned income subject to SS tax. MedicAre – Raise the participation age to 68, make everyone self insure until then.

Uncle Jed

August 26th, 2011
11:58 am

Uncle Jed: There’s a reason I have a “Posts meant to skew the results” tally

++++++++++++++++++++++

Is there a FAQ section or an online tutorial available.
I really want to be counted in your “anti-O” column.

JKL2

August 26th, 2011
11:59 am

getalife- Jimmy62@1132 is for you.

md

August 26th, 2011
11:59 am

“Take off the cap make every dime of earned income subject to SS tax.”

Will never fly unless both caps are removed…………………….

Joe Mama

August 26th, 2011
11:59 am

jm — “Ahhh, the stupid it hurts. Between USinUK, Adam and Joe Mama, its enough to make me want to do what USinUK loves to do, go bang head on keyboard repeatedly.”

I’m perfectly willing to hear your explanation of why term insurance and SS are different, if you’ve got one. If, OTOH, you’re going to insist on comparing SS to whole life or universal life insurance policies, don’t bother.

“But I’m smarter than that. Instead, I’m going to go lunch and a cappuccino.”

I gratefully accept your concession, jm. Do enjoy your lunch!

getalife

August 26th, 2011
12:00 pm

th,

You dodged about what they spent the money on so you are just another con with no personal responsibility for your party’s destruction.

Next.

RGB

August 26th, 2011
12:01 pm

That you would term Perry’s concern for a system that is universally recognized as unsustainable and doomed to failure as having “scorn” for Social Security marks a new definition for the word.

Would you rather he express “ecstasy and delilght” for a system that is actuarially headed for Obamageddon?

md

August 26th, 2011
12:01 pm

“For starters, we could let more affluent Americans begin to pay that same surtax that you and I agree has been imposed on their less affluent countrymen. Only fair, right?”

Sure……….as long as both caps are removed……………

Uncle Jed

August 26th, 2011
12:02 pm

Yo, Jay:

Social Security, he wrote, is a “Ponzi scheme,” “a crumbling monument to the failure of the New Deal” created “at the expense of respect for the Constitution and limited government.”
++++++++++++++++++

I notice the “quote” attributed to Governor Perry has a couple of breaks as posted. I can only assume you used your editorial license to condense while preserving the entire essence.

Talking Head

August 26th, 2011
12:03 pm

get,

i thought it was as you said, what Bush spent the money on…now its “they?”

i hope i’ve enlightened you a little today

Joe the Plutocrat

August 26th, 2011
12:03 pm

TruthBe; really?

Government controls their money in the form of taxation for the start. and whom, pray tell, ‘controls” the government?

Restrictions, laws and bylaws, who they can sell to and where. You know stuff like that for example. – I “don’t know” but again, from where do these “restrictions, laws, and bylaws” originate? ever heard of a lobbyist? every heard of crony capitalism? every hear of an oligarchy?

Also since you listed Goldman Sachs you should read about the inside deal that the obama administration gave to Warren Buffet. where did you read this, on Glenn Beck’s blog? Goldman Sachs “gave the deal” to Buffet and BUSH gave a deal to Goldman Sachs (it was called TARP and AIG was bailed out, instead of Lehman because AIG owed GS $90 billion and Hank Paulson was a GS employee).

No wonder Buffet’s up obama’s ass. I would too if I was given a inside trader deal on Goldman Sachs for 5 billion. Lets see how much is Goldman sachs worth today after we the taxplayers bailed them out. 200 billion? And Warren and company controls them because they got all the best voting stocks and were given control of Goldman Sachs. – see above. you got your “deals” messed up. AGIAN, Buffett invested $5 billion in GS in 2008 (while Bush was POTUS and BECAUSE of TARP). he also invested in GE, if you recall, and his “deal” came at the expense of other GE shareholders, just like his current “deal” with Bank of America comes via the B o Am shareholders (he has “preferred” stock, not common stock, and he is guaranteed a 5% ROI, whereas the rest have a .01 divident each Q.

No other large investor was given the same deal or opportunity Read a little more and some names like Shore Bank of Chicago, Climate Change Carbon Credit exchange, Chicago Excahange, Brokerage deal with Goldman Sachs, 4% worldwide commissions would come up. Yes folks it’s the oldest game in town the rich get richer by using their money and influence to bull politicans like little ole obama and the rest. Remember the golden rule” He who has the gold,Rules”.

listen, I ain’t saying Obama is not in Wall Streets pocket, I am saying every POTUS is, and that’s why Wall Street loves entitlements; the money is used to buy stuff.

Joe Mama

August 26th, 2011
12:03 pm

jm — “I am willing to accept it, liberals don’t”

Well, that’s not true at all.

I’m sure we differ on specifics, but we accept that changes need to be made. However, opposing the GOP plans to dismantling SS or privatize it certainly aren’t refusing to accept the gravity of the situation — it’s simply opposition to the GOP’s opportunistic attempts to do away with SS or to cripple it if they can.

JKL2

August 26th, 2011
12:04 pm

Adam- So my evidence and assertion that insurance isn’t a Ponzi scheme is wrong?

Yes. Insurance is gambling. SS is a ponzi scheme. Hope that clarifies it for you.

Adam

August 26th, 2011
12:05 pm

Up to the end of Page 7 results:

Anti-Obama posts = 10
Individual anti-Obama posters = 8
Anti-Bush posts = 4
Individual anti-Bush posters = 4
Posts meant to skew the results = 3

New since Page 6 results:

getalife @ 11:34a – a Bush bashing that was on page 6. I missed it, oops.
Uncle Jed @ 11:53a – add one to “Posts meant to skew the results.” Don’t worry, I’m sure you’ll get your chance

getalife

August 26th, 2011
12:06 pm

th,

I will just add you to the other cons that deflect blame and take no personal responsibility.

Talking Head

August 26th, 2011
12:06 pm

Adam,

I can’t wait for the debate between Bush and Obama…oh wait

md

August 26th, 2011
12:07 pm

I have to disagree with the premise Joe that ts is like term insurance…….with term insurance, one only gets the benefit if one dies within a specified period. SS is not set up that way. It is set up where one pays a premium for a specified benefit later down the road.

If one wants to compare it to other insurance products, it is more like an annuity……………

Talking Head

August 26th, 2011
12:07 pm

get,

i will add you to the “already gone” list

Common Sense

August 26th, 2011
12:07 pm

if it’s not a Ponzi scheme, then there would be no risk of shortfalls to Social Security without either A) telling some folks they are no longer entitled to what they should otherwise be, or B) being forced to find a new source of funding for the payouts to continue.

Yet we have both.

Insurance, on the other hand, collects enough in premiums to cover the future payouts/liabilities in the future.

Is this happening with Social Security today? No.

Adam

August 26th, 2011
12:08 pm

md: both ice caps?

Generation$crewed

August 26th, 2011
12:08 pm

Joe Mama

August 26th, 2011
11:40 am

Do you get a return on all investments?

Could one not say you are investing in insurance, in case something happens?

MrLiberty

August 26th, 2011
12:08 pm

Social Security, he wrote, is a “Ponzi scheme,” “a crumbling monument to the failure of the New Deal” created “at the expense of respect for the Constitution and limited government.”

Why is this a controversial statement? Every word is true. Yes, millions have been lied to and stolen from and are now dependent on this monumental con job, but everything he said is right on the money. Indeed, the solution to this bankrupt ponzi scheme must take into account the millions of victims of this government swindle, but the solution can only be found by first admitting that you were conned and that government is a fraud and a liar of the greatest sort.

Ron Paul proposes bringing home all the troops and cutting the empire budget by massive amounts and using those funds to shore up SS, Medicare, and other failed government entitlement programs and allowing those who wish to get OUT of the system. This will end the perpetuation of these failed systems and allow folks the opportunity to begin saving, etc. for their own futures. Of course this will require ending the federal reserve, restoring a sound currency, etc. so that savings are not destroyed by government caused inflation as is the case today.

Ron Paul 2012. Perry is just a pozeur.

getalife

August 26th, 2011
12:09 pm

“I can’t wait for the debate between Bush and Obama”

We had that debate last cycle and our President crushed him but you cons are the sorest of losers.

Uncle Jed

August 26th, 2011
12:09 pm

Adam- did you catch this one?
++++++++++++++++++++

actuarially headed for Obamageddon?

Adam

August 26th, 2011
12:10 pm

Talking Head: I do count Perry = Bush posts as anti-Bush posts. So far I have seen NOT A SINGLE ONE OF THOSE today.

Your point is moot. I am tracking because of the assertion that there are more Bush bashers on this blog than Obama bashers. Who do you think has more?

Joe Mama

August 26th, 2011
12:10 pm

JKL2 — “Yes. Insurance is gambling. SS is a ponzi scheme. Hope that clarifies it for you.”

Sorry, nothing doing. SS has *always* defined itself as insurance, and it works like a term life policy. You either live long enough (to collect payments) or you don’t (and you get nothing) in the case of SS. For term life, you either die before the term expires (and your heirs then collect on the policy) or else you outlive it and receive nothing (I recognize there are ROP term life policies, but most policies sold are not that kind).

There’s no bucket of money anywhere with your name on it in the case of term life policies or SS. The only time you receive something is when you meet the terms of the ‘policy,’ be it the insurance company’s or SS’s. Otherwise, you get nothing, specifically BECAUSE there’s no bucket of money with your name on it.

This notion that SS is an investment is completely wrongheaded. It never has been was never meant to be and has never been meant to be comparable to them. It’s insurance, whether you like it or not.

Adam

August 26th, 2011
12:12 pm

LUNCH

Royce09

August 26th, 2011
12:12 pm

We voters have scorn for Rick Perry and we will show that scorn in the next several months, esp come voting time.

Uncle Jed

August 26th, 2011
12:13 pm

“I can’t wait for the debate between Bush and Obama”

We had that debate last cycle and our President crushed him but you cons are the sorest of losers.

++++++++++++++++++++++

The last cycle was 2010. Not sure, but I seem to remember Team Obama was shut out.

The previous cycle was 2008. Bush had completed two terms and wasn’t seeking a third.

(note to Adam: You will count that as another Anti-Bush post, right? )

getalife

August 26th, 2011
12:13 pm

Well, our President will not hand over a big pile of stinking crap if he loses like w did so to be factual, there should be more w bashing.

Talking Head

August 26th, 2011
12:15 pm

Adam,

hard to tell..i think varies by day and by topic

prob more anti Obamas right now…later today could be opposite

Uncle Jed

August 26th, 2011
12:15 pm

Your point is moot. I am tracking because of the assertion that there are more Bush bashers on this blog than Obama bashers. Who do you think has more?
+++++++++++++

Just curious, Adam. You getting paid for your services or working pro bono?

I’m out for vittles and fresh air…

md

August 26th, 2011
12:17 pm

Wrong Joe………just check your SS Statement…….it defines the benefit as contributions are made……..yes, one must reach the magic age, but after that, they are entitled to the payments…..which is why it is like an annuity.

Term also relies on an age, but also an outcome……death.

Joe Mama

August 26th, 2011
12:17 pm

md — “I have to disagree with the premise Joe that ts is like term insurance…….with term insurance, one only gets the benefit if one dies within a specified period. SS is not set up that way. It is set up where one pays a premium for a specified benefit later down the road.”

I’m willing to grant you that it’s not *exactly* like term insurance, but you do have to die within a particular bound of time in order to collect. With term insurance, you have to die before the policy expires. With SS, you have to live long enough to collect.

“If one wants to compare it to other insurance products, it is more like an annuity……………”

Sort of, with limitations as above. With an annuity, you can buy in with a lump sum and never have to pay in again (if you’re that well off), although there are plenty that let you buy in over time (analogous to how SS works). However, SS has never described itself as an annuity, and that’s why I keep going back to that.

Surely this sniping back and forth serves no constructive purpose. How about we talk about ways to preserve SS for the future? Here are some ideas:

Modest increase to payroll tax
Modest trimming of benefits to retirees
Modest increase in retirement age
Lifting or eliminating the income cap
Instituting means-testing for retirees for reduced or waived benefits

Perhaps you have some ideas as well?

Generation$crewed

August 26th, 2011
12:19 pm

Adam

August 26th, 2011
11:48 am

Can I borrow your crystal ball? Since you can predict what I will be saying once a plan is delievered.

Do you think it is a good thing that our president has not given a plan on the economy, or hell even a budget for his years in office?

Is that a good way to lead? Does our commander in chief not having a plan make you comfortable?

Joe Mama

August 26th, 2011
12:21 pm

md — “Wrong Joe………just check your SS Statement…….it defines the benefit as contributions are made…….”

That’s IF you reach the magic age. If you don’t, nothing. Ergo, no bucket of money with your name on it.

“yes, one must reach the magic age, but after that, they are entitled to the payments…..which is why it is like an annuity.”

Unless you die, in which case the payments stop — which is *unlike* annuities with periods certain. You can buy an annuity that continues to pay out to your estate or heirs even after you die. SS offers no such option (though your dependents, if any, may be entitled to benefits on your behalf).

“Term also relies on an age, but also an outcome……death.”

So does SS, in large part.

Royce09

August 26th, 2011
12:22 pm

Corporate/Rich welfare far exceed expenditures both on social security and medicare many times over. This does not count the TRILLIONS of dollars that have been scraped off the top of the American ecomony, via LOBBYING manipulations by actually writing and sponsoring laws, presented and passed by their flunky politican puppets which all have been designed to buke/steal trillions from the American consumers/government contracts. If a fraction of this money could be recovred social security, medicare and a national healthcare plan for all Americans would exist right now.. However that greedy 1 percent of the richest American will never let this happen – seems like it is time for our 200 year plus revolution to start – Americans will ONLY be trampled on SO LONG. I wish i was still young enough to take part.

Generation$crewed

August 26th, 2011
12:23 pm

getalife

August 26th, 2011
11:48 am

When do any of the effects on the economy become those of Obama’s?

All 14 million lost were a result of W?

So none of the policies inacted by President Obama have cost anyone their job?

All 14 million are soley Bush’s fault. Interesting take, how objective of you.

Continue to call me a con, it shows that massive level of maturity that you are able to achieve. My 5 year old does the same thing when he doesn’t have anything intelligent to add to the conversation. He usually goes with stupid head though. maybe you can try to incorporate that in as a curveball from con.

Not So Casual Observer

August 26th, 2011
12:23 pm

As for Perry’s comment, as presented by Bookman – truth is always best defense. Bernie Madoff went to jail for much less a scam than Social Security. SS was originally designed to take the money and run without paying. The life expectancy at the time was 58+/- and benefits started after most were dead.

As for SS being most like whole life or an annuity, only someone who does not understand the concept could make such a statement. Whole life/annuity are still there for the heirs of the decedent while SS ends at death. Pay a hundred thousand dollars into SS and then die at 55. Say goodbye to the money!

Only the average Democrat or Obama supporter is too dense to see that SS and Medicare are unsustainable in their current form unless all of those who are currently outside the system are included – like Congress, federal, state, county and local government employees, teachers and the like are included.

Of course when a political party such as the Democrats panders to those too lazy or unmotivated to provide for themselves and thus waste a lifetime looking to the government for support, you should not expect an informed, intelligent voter. And the result is Barrack Obama.

Jm

August 26th, 2011
12:23 pm

Jay 11:58 you are assuming the rich were the ones that benefited

They did. And so did a lot other people that weren’t rich. It can’t be backtracked.

So, u have to say what are we going to do to fix it? And saying “the rich owe us” is oversimplification.

Joe Mama

August 26th, 2011
12:26 pm

Extremely Casual Observer — “As for SS being most like whole life or an annuity, only someone who does not understand the concept could make such a statement.”

Yeah. That’s why I clearly compared it to TERM life insurance. Read more closely, please.

“Whole life/annuity are still there for the heirs of the decedent while SS ends at death. Pay a hundred thousand dollars into SS and then die at 55. Say goodbye to the money!”

Once again, I compared it to TERM life insurance. Go back. Reread. Repeat. Kthxbye.

md

August 26th, 2011
12:28 pm

With term insurance, you have to die before the policy expires. With SS, you have to live long enough to collect.”

With the difference being spousal/family distributions……….with term, one loses the benefit if one dies outside the specified term. SS has survor benefits even after death……….

Not trying to be snippy, just pointing out that I don’t see it like term………

As for fixing……I have no problem with most of your suggestions……except the cap. Taking off the cap on one end without taking off the cap on the other is basically a tax on prosperity………

getalife

August 26th, 2011
12:29 pm

gs,

It is not just me.

Many Americans know it was the gop did not see it coming global economic collapse that cost us a decade of growth.

It is a accepted fact.

Donna P.

August 26th, 2011
12:32 pm

Silly Jay, it is over for Obama and you Progressives. Perry will be the President in 2012 and again 2016. The economy will recover, unemployment will drop, Obama Care will be repealed, the housing market will bounce back, and life will be good again for everyone. Corporations are not hiring until Obama is out of office because of his regulations and Obama Care. They are just sitting on their millions and waiting….

md

August 26th, 2011
12:33 pm

“As for SS being most like whole life or an annuity, only someone who does not understand the concept could make such a statement. Whole life/annuity are still there for the heirs of the decedent while SS ends at death.”

This is wrong…….you may want to do a bit more research…………

SS has survivor benefits………………………..

John Lewis

August 26th, 2011
12:33 pm

Perry will beat Obama’s Martha’s Vineyard butt!!! Obama will have the country in total government control and himself as the Grand Czar if the dumb masses continue to worship him!

getalife

August 26th, 2011
12:35 pm

donna p,

Sitting on trillions when the American people desperately needs jobs is okay with you?

Party over country right donna?

Joe Mama

August 26th, 2011
12:35 pm

md — “……….with term, one loses the benefit if one dies outside the specified term. SS has survor benefits even after death……….”

Sure, but the benefits are recalculated. It’s not like there’s a fixed amount that transfers to your heirs. And under some circumstances, your heirs may not be able to collect at all.

“Not trying to be snippy, just pointing out that I don’t see it like term………”

Not at all; I appreciate your willingness to be both serious and polite in this discussion. I enjoy discussions where the participants disagree but can do so politely.

“As for fixing……I have no problem with most of your suggestions……except the cap. Taking off the cap on one end without taking off the cap on the other is basically a tax on prosperity………”

When you say “the cap on the other,” are you suggesting that there should be no upper limit on benefits?

Many forms of income are exempt from SS taxation; would you support removing those exemptions? Because I see them as a subsidy to the already-wealthy.

getalife

August 26th, 2011
12:36 pm

Sure deregulate the banks again.

Then don’t bail them out next time.

gop depression.

Joe Mama

August 26th, 2011
12:36 pm

getalife — “Party over country right donna?”

Shhh. Don’t wake her up. She is having a dream just now.

getalife

August 26th, 2011
12:39 pm

Joe,

I guess they really wanted a depression.

If they win, they will accomplish this goal.

I would hedge on it.

Grits

August 26th, 2011
12:45 pm

The important thing in the next election is to replace Obama. Joseph Stalin said that America could be destroyed from within and Obama’s accelerated that process to warp speed. Just imagine the damage he will do with another four years following in the path of Marx, Lenin and Stalin. He’s poison.

Steve

August 26th, 2011
12:45 pm

Seems an Amendment requiring all Goverment personnel to use SS & Medicare would get the dumbazzes in Washington to correct the flaws in both.

Joe Mama

August 26th, 2011
12:49 pm

Steve — “Seems an Amendment requiring all Goverment personnel to use SS & Medicare would get the dumbazzes in Washington to correct the flaws in both.”

Sounds fine to me.

md

August 26th, 2011
12:51 pm

“When you say “the cap on the other,” are you suggesting that there should be no upper limit on benefits?”

Thats why the cap is currently there…………..on both ends.

I don’t care for taxing folks just on the basis of income………too many choose not to participate for that to be a viable alternative………….

Not So Casual Observer

August 26th, 2011
12:51 pm

J Mama,

SS is not like either term or whole life since those are a decision each individual makes with regard to a policy. SS is forced upon you by the Government, taken from you at the threat of a prison term for non-compliance.

Currently an individual pays tax on the $ deducted for SS and then, if he/she happens to be an intelligent and successful provider for their future, the benefits are also taxed.

The original promise was the benfits would never be taxed – another Democrat lie, now abetted by the Republicans.

The motive for SS was a means to take money from the public to finance WWII and defray the costs of the depression with the expectation only a small benefit would ever be paid.

The only arguments for maintaing the current SS and Medicare systems are POLITICAL not intellectual. The gray hairs revolt at the mention of curtailing benefits or increasing the retirement age (mostly at the urging of one of more socialist groups in Washington – the AARP) while the young people (on whom the systems depend) see little chance of a return on their “investment”.

The lack of leadership on the part of Congress (Reid & Boehner) and the White House (Obama) is astounding. None of these rascals have the cahones to do the proper thing for fear of losing their jobs and thus falling off the government gravy train.

The first major steps to balancing the budget are to eliminate earmarks, eliminate attaching spending amendments to bills that are not associated with the legislation (money for the Murtha airport attached to a Defense Bill) and to forever ban any federal government employee from becoming a lobbyist.

Also, as an example of the earmark fraud, the Republican Congressman from Mississippi who earmarked $15-30 Million for research at 2 universities and then received $20,000+/- from each of the faculty in the two departments receiving the grants. None of the professors had been contributors prior to the earmarks.

Eliminating teh Congressional corruption would be a very big step toward balancing the budget.

Bosch

August 26th, 2011
1:01 pm

“Well, Bosch, have you finished demeaning your older family members? ”

Dusty,

When I read something like that, I know we have a merciful God, otherwise you would be dead from choking on those words.

williebkind

August 26th, 2011
1:02 pm

“Eliminating the Congressional corruption would be a very big step toward balancing the budget.”

Yes, it would and that would encourage congress to do the work the tax payers pay them to do.

No federal emplyee can be a lobbyst is a super move toward lesser spending.

Jimmy62

August 26th, 2011
1:06 pm

Here’s an SS solution. If you guys really think that you get back what you pay in, then you should have no problem with allowing anyone who doesn’t like SS to opt out. I will gladly sacrifice the payroll taxes I have already paid in return for not having to pay another cent to SS for the rest of my life.

But you won’t allow that because if there was an actual choice then SS wouldn’t last another year.

Real American

August 26th, 2011
1:07 pm

It does not matter low self esteem rep white lower class are still going to vote for him even though their parents, grand ma are on medicare , these tea party idiots could care less as long as he take shots at the President and 3 time college droup out Sean Hannity tell them how bade President Obama is they are still going to vote against their interest.
I can not wait till Perry, Rommey line against up the President, both of these hypocrites records with be exposed and real Americans who care about their country not the color of a man skin will vote for the obvious.

rightwingextreme

August 26th, 2011
1:08 pm

A Ponzi scheme is a fraudulent investment operation that pays returns to separate investors, not from any actual profit earned by the organization, but from their own money or money paid by subsequent investors. The Ponzi scheme usually entices new investors by offering returns other investments cannot guarantee, in the form of short-term returns that are either abnormally high or unusually consistent

Jimmy62

August 26th, 2011
1:09 pm

Real American: No one with your grammar skills has any right to call anyone else an idiot.

Disgusted

August 26th, 2011
1:13 pm

Seems an Amendment requiring all Goverment personnel to use SS & Medicare would get the dumbazzes in Washington to correct the flaws in both.

All government personnel hired full-time since 1986 are required to be part of SS and Medicare, dumbazz. Only members of Congress who have the power to exempt themselves and those government personnel hired before 1986 and electing to stay on the old system are exempt. Try reading and research. They’re good for you.

Joe the Plutocrat (and Travis Bickle)

August 26th, 2011
1:19 pm

getalife; “you talkin’ to me?” so, how do you explain the recessions during the Nixon, Bush 41 and the end of the Bush/admins? I don’t know if we had a recession in the early 80’s (Reagan), but it sure felt like on. anyway, since you such a savvy and prescient investor, you’ve hedge on it; which means you’ll benefit (like old man Potter did in “It’s a Wonderful Life”).

Grits, you do realize that in citing Josef Stalin, you are kinda barking the “Socialist” mantra, which means that the the US (capitalism) “rots from within” as opposed to in response to the forces of Nature. seriously, you need to drop the talking points and think outside the box

Joe

August 26th, 2011
1:20 pm

What are some idea’s Obama and the dems have put up Bookman? Anyone with a brain realizes that the path we are going down is not sustainable. You and your ilk are purely using this as a political issue to scare seniors. It’s not going to work as long as it can be presented to the people so they can understand the scope of the problem.

Joe Mama

August 26th, 2011
1:41 pm

Inattentive Observer — “SS is not like either term or whole life since those are a decision each individual makes with regard to a policy. SS is forced upon you by the Government, taken from you at the threat of a prison term for non-compliance.”

I can see that there’s no point in any further engagement with you. I’ll simply conclude by saying that you’re quite wrong and by wishing you good day, sir or madam.

Adam

August 26th, 2011
1:43 pm

Final results:

Anti-Obama posts = 12
Individual anti-Obama posters = 10
Anti-Bush posts = 6
Individual anti-Bush posters = 4
Posts meant to skew the results = 6

New since Page 7 results:

RGB @ 12:01p – Obamageddon…. tehnically this one would skew the results since it’s not actually an anti-Obama post so much as a snark at something else.
getalife @ 12:09p – anti-Bush
getalife @ 12:13p – anti-Bush
Donna P. @ 12:32 – anti-Obama
John Lewis @ 12:33p – counting as “post meant to skew the results” due to overhyperbole
Joe @ 1:20p – Makes me feel like I should start tallying “Where’s your plan?” However, I am not counting this one for any of the current tally. Doesn’t seem anti-Obama enough.

Not counting this thread anymore. And for the record, Uncle Jed, I’m doing this out of a pure motivation to make the point that Bush is not bashed as much as Obama is on these threads. No money is involved.

Joe Mama

August 26th, 2011
1:44 pm

Jimmy62 — “Here’s an SS solution. If you guys really think that you get back what you pay in, then you should have no problem with allowing anyone who doesn’t like SS to opt out. I will gladly sacrifice the payroll taxes I have already paid in return for not having to pay another cent to SS for the rest of my life. But you won’t allow that because if there was an actual choice then SS wouldn’t last another year.”

I don’t think that’s a “solution” as much as it is your ‘desire’ or ‘intent.’

And as far as “you won’t allow that” goes, I don’t have any say in it. You need to speak to your elected representatives, not an internet message board.

Adam

August 26th, 2011
1:44 pm

Generation$crewed: Do you think it is a good thing that our president has not given a plan on the economy, or hell even a budget for his years in office?

He gave a couple of plans and a budget. Budgets were rejected, and all but one plan has been rejected so far. Especially the ones on paper. Can you guess which plan wasn’t rejected?

Let’s not discuss all about the rejection vs. not, to bring up old talking points about why and so on. The fact is, plans were put down on paper, some in bill form, and most were rejected. So it’s not that he hasn’t ever had a plan, and it’s not that he really needs to keep coming up with plans if all that happens is they get rejected. But I admire the man for continuing to try despite all that.

Jm

August 26th, 2011
1:46 pm

Jay

Actually try this on for size. I’d say people benefitted on a general pro rata basis relative to their normal overall tax burden.

So to adjust, everyones (total) taxes should go up by an equal percentage (of the tax rate) to fix.

So if taxes need to go up 10% to fix, then someone with a 15% tax rate would then pay 16.5%, and someone paying 30% would pay 33%. Fair?

Secondarily, everyones rates should then be lowered in a similar manner as stupid deductions are eliminated, resulting in a flatter fairer more efficient tax system.

jm

August 26th, 2011
1:55 pm

Oh, and I might add, benefits in a multitude of ways need to be tempered (means testing, indexing, raising the retirement age, etc etc)

Disgusted

August 26th, 2011
2:26 pm

Oh, and I might add, benefits in a multitude of ways need to be tempered (means testing, indexing, raising the retirement age, etc etc)

Ain’t it strange how these conservatives want to structure social programs according to wealth, but if you suggest a higher tax rate for wealthy people? Uh, that’s socialism and wealth envy!

Joe Mama

August 26th, 2011
2:49 pm

Disgusted, I have an explanation for you that details the conservative stance on trust and cost, but the automatic bluenose doesn’t like it.

Adam

August 26th, 2011
3:15 pm

Disgusted: As long as the idea leads to what you put in is what you get out, then it’s sort of ok. Until it can be privatized, or it can be changed to charge the poor more than the wealthy, even if the wealthy also benefit.

Cherevah

August 26th, 2011
4:58 pm

“…64 percent of Americans said they oppose making “major changes in Social Security and Medicare” as a means of addressing the debt problem,…”

That’s because most of us want the benefits and we want someone else to pay for it.

As someone said recently, programs like SS and Medicare were supposed to be ‘fee for service’ but Americans would rather they be ‘free for service’.

TruthBe

August 26th, 2011
6:05 pm

Adam, Take a break it was satire. But this economy is truly now Obama’s economy. And you Adam and the rest of the paid bloggers for the DNC know it. Remember President Clinton’s re-election slogan”It’s the economy Stupid”. Well President Obama’s new slogan is ” It’s all my fault now”. the Obama Economy.

gm

August 26th, 2011
7:04 pm

Hey Retards tea party idiots
Now that Irene is comming should we downsize goverment workers that are working around the clock to keep you bigots and idiots safe.
Would you rather have the hypocrite government hater Rick Perry.
God dont like selfish hypocrites like the tea party”’

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Perry’s scorn for Social Security won’t be issue in GOP primary

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Perry’s scorn for Social Security won’t be issue in GOP primary

426 comments Add your comment

About Jay Bookman

Search this blog

Recent Posts

Archives

More from the AJC

Blogroll

FairTax archive

Laffer Curve debunked

The House GOP budget

All AJC blogs »

Tell us what you think about the site

Subscribe »

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