Teen pregnancy, taxes and climate change: Evidence matters
It is one of the great under-reported success stories of our time.
Twenty years ago, roughly 62 out of every 1,000 teen-age American girls were giving birth. Here in Georgia, the numbers were much, much worse. At the time, we had the highest teen-age birth rate in the country, at 126 births per 1,000 teen-age girls, twice as high as the national average.
The good news is that by 2009, the most recent year for which statistics are available, the national teen birth rate had fallen to 39.1 births per 1,000 females, a 37 percent decrease and the lowest rate ever recorded in this country. (It’s still among the highest in the Western world.) Here in Georgia, the decline was even more dramatic. By 2009, the rate of teenage births here had fallen to 47.7 per 1,000, still above the national average but a startling reduction of 62 percent.
That’s a lot of individual lives that have been saved and changed. It’s a lot of money saved for the taxpayer as well. Those improvements have been pretty broadly based as well. As the Centers for Disease Control reports, “During that period, the birth rate decreased 50 percent among black teens, 41 percent among white teens, and 33 percent among Hispanic teens.”
However, the problem has remained more persistent in some areas than others. Texas, for example, has the third-highest teen pregnancy rate in the country. At 60.7 pregnancies per 1,000 teen-aged girls, its rate is more than three times higher than that of Vermont, Massachusetts and New Hampshire, which have the lowest teen pregnancy rates in the country.
In Texas, that means three times more girls at risk of dropping out of high school and never attending college. It means a lot more abortions. It means a lot more children who are being raised by children, often without benefit of a nuclear family. It means premature babies, more low weight babies, more infant mortality and more dependence on government social programs.
In its sex-ed programs in public school, Texas relies upon a curriculum of abstinence-only, an approach that has been shown to be ineffective in multiple studies. Gov. Rick Perry was asked about that fact last year in a televised interview with Evan Smith of the Texas Tribune, who read Perry a question submitted by an audience member:
Here’s a transcript of the relevant exchange:
SMITH: Governor, why does Texas continue with abstinence education programs when they don’t seem to be working? In fact, I think we have the third highest teen pregnancy rate in the country.
PERRY: “Abstinence … works.”
(audience laughter)
SMITH: “But we have the third highest teen pregnancy rate among all states in the country. The questioner’s point is, it doesn’t seem to be working — abstinence education.”
PERRY: “It, it, it works. Maybe it’s the way it’s being taught, or the way it’s being applied out there, but the fact of the matter is it is the best form of — uh — to teach our children.”
SMITH: “Can you give a statistic telling me that it works?”
PERRY: “I’m just going to tell you from my own personal life, abstinence works …”
We’ve seen that attitude in a lot of policy areas. Tax cuts increase government revenue, even though repeated experiments have proved otherwise. Global warming has been revealed as a hoax, even though every investigation of the data has upheld its accuracy (the most recent is here).
And as Perry stubbornly insists, abstinence works.
This is faith and ideology that is immune to evidence. It is the assertion that belief should trump outcome. And as the teen-birth statistics demonstrate, the consequences of elevating faith over fact in the public policy sphere can be tragic.
(As an aside, it’s hard to watch that clip and not be struck by the uncanny similarity in body language and speaking cadence between Perry and former President George W. Bush. It’s actually kind of weird. My wife’s family is from Texas and my brother has lived there for 30 years — it’s not as if every male in the state has those mannerisms.)
– Jay Bookman
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849 comments Add your comment
Bosch
August 24th, 2011
12:51 pm
Once again Scout: fail. ’twas not I who initiated that, only agreed.
BADA BING
August 24th, 2011
12:52 pm
In the South, ‘retard’ is what you are when you get old and stop working.
Dave R. - 3k/4k/5k
August 24th, 2011
12:52 pm
USinUK, then make the case as to why Jay decided to bring Perry into the discussion at all? Does not the “evidence” stand by itself without focusing on (arguably) the leading candidate for the GOP nomination? Why not point out the top 10 states as Mary Elizabeth has done and leave it at that?
No, the bottom-line is that this gives Jay another cheap shot at a Republican by painting him and his beliefs as the cause for the higher rates.
You know it, and it is intellectually dishonest of you to not admit it.
godless heathen
August 24th, 2011
12:53 pm
First an earthquake to shake up DC and now a hurricane headed that way. God must be really p*ssed about the way things are going up there.
Doggone/GA
August 24th, 2011
12:53 pm
“your agnosticism may explain your pushing immorality”
I’m not agnostic
Granny Godzilla
August 24th, 2011
12:53 pm
md
while i could be satirical and claim that some people are hatched, or
perhaps delivered from an orifice farther south, and one could split hairs and point out c-sections, but yes all people come from there….
i’m pretty sure there is an internal exit sign just above the cervix
in all women.
Joe the Plutocrat
August 24th, 2011
12:53 pm
Dusty, I think the subject of this blog is maybe “morality” isn’t the best way to prevent unwanted pregnancies (birth control, including abortion) is. and this is not to say that the concept of abstinence (what my old catholic school nuns used to refer to as “self-control”) is not an important part of a comprehensive teen pregnancy prevention program; but as I said, when Bristol Palin is a national spokesperson for abstinence, it’s like Charlie Sheen telling kids to “just say no”.
Junkie Brewster
August 24th, 2011
12:54 pm
Who is John Galt? Why, he’s a poorly written character in a second rate novel. Why do you ask?
Dave R. - 3k/4k/5k
August 24th, 2011
12:54 pm
getaclue, you’re right.
I left out “lying” when describing my cyber-stalker monkey.
Mary Elizabeth
August 24th, 2011
12:54 pm
CORRECTION:
I erroneously listed 11 states with the low birth rates, not 10. That means that Pennsylvania should not have been included because it was number 11. Therefore, the average % of lack of literacy skills for that listing of states with low birth rates should have been only 9.7%, NOT 11.0%. That confirms even more my original thought about the correction of literacy to teen birth rate.
—————————————————————————————————————–
Thus, those states with high teen birth rate had an average lack of literacy of 14.6% compared to 9.7% of those states with low teen birth rate.
—————————————————————————————————————–
BTW, MA on my chart is for Massachusetts, and LA is for Louisiana. I think I got those abbreviations right. Hope so.
Liberal Larry
August 24th, 2011
12:54 pm
USinUK,
They aren’t any more moral over there. They’re just all on birth control. My old Dutch exchange student Mirjam was on birth control at 14 and her boyfriend regularly slept overnight in her bed with her on school nights beginning when she turned 15 over in the Netherlands.
AmVet
August 24th, 2011
12:54 pm
This is faith and ideology that is immune to evidence. It is the assertion that belief should trump outcome.
Sadly the dominant aspect of far right wing thought in America.
Facts? Who cares?
Results? Nah!
(God’s on our side.)
Message from Matti
August 24th, 2011
12:54 pm
Describing various forms of contraception, how they work, how to use them correctly, and their effectiveness rates does indeed constitute “education.”
Telling them: “Just say NO” constitutes advice, not education.
Knowledge is power. Shame is destructive. Want kids to grow up to be responsible adults? Knowledge empowers them to do so. What kind of MORONIC effing non-logical peabrain would argue otherwise?
godless heathen
August 24th, 2011
12:55 pm
“‘retard’ is what you are when you get old and stop working.”
I thought it was what happened in a NASCAR pit stop.
Uncle Jed
August 24th, 2011
12:55 pm
well, of course not! men kissing men is icky – they don’t have quite the same problem with wimmen kissing wimmen.
++++++++++++++++
Yep! Anybody got the address for the fund raiser at a bondage themed lesbian strip-club?
Corey
August 24th, 2011
12:55 pm
Repeatedly referring to the POTUS as Odumbo, Obozo or Owhatever does not make his opposition more electable. It only makes you appear more juvenile and lacking in intellectual substance.
RB from Gwinnett
August 24th, 2011
12:56 pm
“Living in denial is no solution.”
You mean denying socialism is a fatal path would be foolish? Surely not?
md
August 24th, 2011
12:56 pm
If c-sections weren’t so prevalent, I might agree………………but that exit isn’t between the legs.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
August 24th, 2011
12:56 pm
Dave is looking to get another warning from Jay again for his childishness or maybe just a time out in the corner.
Tick, tick, tick Dave
USinUK
August 24th, 2011
12:57 pm
Dave – “No, the bottom-line is that this gives Jay another cheap shot at a Republican by painting him and his beliefs as the cause for the higher rates.”
no, what it DOES do is:
1) give more fodder to the argument that GOPpers support failed programs
and
2) gives more fodder to the argument that the GOP wants hundreds of millions of YOUR TAX DOLLARS to CONTINUE going to support a failed program
what it does NOT do is say Perry support abstinence education = Texas’s high teen birth rate is ALL PERRY’S FAULT
Uncle Jed
August 24th, 2011
12:57 pm
“‘retard’ is what you are when you get old and stop working.”
I thought it was what happened in a NASCAR pit stop
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
We done it when the feathers started falling off our former mayor
Liberal Larry
August 24th, 2011
12:57 pm
Dave R,
You just stick with yer facts feller and we’ll stick with our rhetoric.
Mighty Righty
August 24th, 2011
12:57 pm
We know that teen pregnancy is much worse among hispanics resulting in distorting Perry’s record in Texas. Obama has just issued an executive order forbidding the deportation of illegal hispanics will result in an increase in illegal hispanics and result in an increase in teen pregnancy. It follows all of the bad things being attributed to Perry are now Obama’s policy and fault.
USinUK
August 24th, 2011
12:58 pm
Liberal Larry – 12:54 – thank you for getting my point.
getalife
August 24th, 2011
12:58 pm
dave,
I am usually right but still feel bad about blaming Paul yesterday.
A knee jerk reaction that I try not to do.
Did you sign a contract with the AJC for amnesty on personal attacks?
snagged snapper
August 24th, 2011
12:59 pm
Well, it’s a good thing Obamacare will cover birth control for teens then.
Meanwhile in other news, Obama was on the golf course (where else) yesterday on Martha’s Vineyard when the earthquake hit. It caused him to miss his putt on the 14th hole, and he finished 3 over par. Geologists concluded late yesterday that a new fault line has been found post-quake ranging from Baltimore to Richmond. The Obama Administration has decided to give it a name: Bush’s Fault.
Maxine “The Mouth” Waters told the Tea Party to go to hell, and the media is silent. NO admonishment from the Democrat representation. So much for Obama’s call for more civility. Maybe she is becoming senile and thought he called for more hostility instead. In any event, I’m sure the media would have been just as silent had Rubio told the liberal Democrat representation to go to hell.
Gallup’s latest polling on Obama: 38% approve, 54% disapprove. Guess that means 54% of this nation now is racist.
State utilities are raising rates or plan on raising rates soon in response to the Obama administration’s killing off coal plants and stricter emission requirements. My power bill this month is $26 more than this period last year, and I used *fewer* KWH last year.
Before backtracking, while in China Biden made a comment that secretly most if not all “progressives” believe in: one child per family. It’s all part of that “think green” religion they believe in and all.
Yep, keep the humor going libs….
Joe the Plutocrat
August 24th, 2011
12:59 pm
Liberal larry, oh, do you mean when she was a federal employee (IRS), who took advantage of the “liberal” benefits (materninty leave) and ended up only actually working 8-9 months per year? listen, Skippy; $400/month x 17 adds up and as I said, take away the $250,000 in “family farm subsidies” and the $150,000.00 marcus got to fix homos, and well; “pork is pork”. again, if you want to question the use of the word “evil’ – I support you. to wit; I did not say the Bachman’s are “evil” I said they are duplicitous moochers who suckle at the teat of big government. And out of curiosity; how is some “welfare queen’ with 17 kids less “entitled” to $400/month than a white, Christian, lawyer with 17 foster kids?
Midori
August 24th, 2011
12:59 pm
Yes. It must be the tea party that is the community that has near 70% of their babies born out of wedlock.
their spokesmodels are Bristo and Sarah.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
August 24th, 2011
1:00 pm
Intellectually dishonest is Dave’s attempt to change what Jay posted…. as someone, I dont remember who, posts a consistent whine about others not being able to speak for them as he does consistently for others.
But its all about the effort to be a intellectually dishonest in his own posts and then try to claim others are doing what he is doing.
“Do NOT look behind the curtain”
snagged snapper
August 24th, 2011
1:01 pm
“Repeatedly referring to the POTUS as Odumbo, Obozo or Owhatever does not make his opposition more electable. It only makes you appear more juvenile and lacking in intellectual substance.”
Hey Corey: did you say the same about the libs who called Bush “shrub” and “chimp in chief” and whatnot?
Didn’t think so.
Dave R. - 3k/4k/5k
August 24th, 2011
1:01 pm
Then why mention Perry’s name and link to a video of Perry at all, USinUK?
If you want to blame the POLICY, blame the POLICY.
If you want to blame someone else, put a face to it. Just as Jay did.
Bosch
August 24th, 2011
1:01 pm
Doggone
I think of myself as a Christian agnostic.
Midori
August 24th, 2011
1:01 pm
First an earthquake to shake up DC and now a hurricane headed that way.
actually the earthquake orignated in Virginia. In no other than Eric Cantor’s district.
and that is a sign of what now?
USinUK
August 24th, 2011
1:02 pm
““your agnosticism may explain your pushing immorality””
uh-oh. it looks like agnosticism is the new socialism (in that the people who use the term have no flippin clue what it means)
saying that you can’t prove or disprove the existence of God (the definition of agnosticism) leads to immorality???
as Bosch said earlier – I hope you stretched before you made that leap
Doggone/GA
August 24th, 2011
1:03 pm
“I think of myself as a Christian agnostic”
I’m waiting for someone to try a response that was once posted to me when I first started coming here: that there is no such thing as natural abortion!
getalife
August 24th, 2011
1:03 pm
“and that is a sign of what now?”
He is against ending Medicare.
I think his son is too.
DebbieDoRight
August 24th, 2011
1:03 pm
Larry: Debbiedoright. You almost got me. I don’t believe in a balanced budget therefore I am not dumb as is Bachman.
She didn’t believe in it either, well at least until it became a political platform that she could stand and rant on. then all of a sudden, surprise, surprise! bachman is a true believer!
I likewise do not believe in govt living within its means like those nutty tea party nuts.
Who TOTALLY wasn’t even AWARE that the US was running up debt until January 2009! Hmmmmm I wonder what happened in January 2009 to make them into instant true believers….???…??
I believe in runaway govt spending- that makes me intelligent- just like you.
When did you start noticing the debt? Was it in January 2009 too?
On Bachman I kinda figured she was scamming the system. Who knew that those checks from the govt paid more than charging $400 an hour as a tax attorney? Who knew?
Why would someone, who makes $400 an hour trade that job in to become a Congressman and make $125K/yr.? Do you think she was probably a very, very, BAD tax attorney and had to change careers? Enquiring minds wanna know…….
Uncle Jed
August 24th, 2011
1:03 pm
DebbieDoRight
August 24th, 2011
12:47 pm
+++++++++++++++
We have not fostered any children to date, have you?
snagged snapper
August 24th, 2011
1:04 pm
“My power bill this month is $26 more than this period last year, and I used *fewer* KWH last year. ”
Fixed: Used fewer KWH *this* year.
USinUK
August 24th, 2011
1:04 pm
“Then why mention Perry’s name and link to a video of Perry at all, USinUK?”
awwwwwwwwww … diddums … do you not understand that he is a front-runner in the GOP presidential pool, so people should understand his stance on certain issues???
is that simply beyond your comprehension???
stands for decibels
August 24th, 2011
1:04 pm
Of course, the kids don’t get a check every month, the Bachman family does. I suspect a portion of that redistributed wealth has paid for any number of footlong hot dogs.
What Marcus Bachmann does
with rent boysin the privacy of his own closet is his business.Kamchak
August 24th, 2011
1:04 pm
Anybody got the address for the fund raiser at a bondage themed lesbian strip-club
7969 Santa Monica Blvd. West Hollywood Ca
Granny Godzilla
August 24th, 2011
1:06 pm
“If you want to blame the POLICY, blame the POLICY.”
BUT NEVER EVER EVER BLAME ONE WHO SUPPORTS THE POLICY AT THE TOP OF HIS LUNGS
that would be too mean and an attack on their character….
(multiple snarcasms)
Keep Up the Good Fight!
August 24th, 2011
1:06 pm
is that simply beyond your comprehension???
Yes… another episode of simple answers to simple questions…
USinUK
August 24th, 2011
1:07 pm
Keepy-Uppy – I know. it’s sad.
GG – or at least, never ever shine a light on people who support failed policies that cost the American taxpayers hundreds of millions of dollars every year.
whatever you do, don’t do that.
Joe the Plutocrat
August 24th, 2011
1:08 pm
I thought we were “blaming” the kids who are not employing “the policy”. that’s like saying; “people don’t kill people, the 2nd Amendment kills people.
Bosch
August 24th, 2011
1:09 pm
Doggone
No natural abortion? Hmmm well I’ll make sure to tell the OB that. I wonder what that was that caused our second child to die in utero?
Dave R. - 3k/4k/5k
August 24th, 2011
1:09 pm
Which is EXACTLY why Jay wants to blame him and his policies for the higher rate!
Thanks for FINALLY admitting it, USinUK.
There’s hope for you yet.
md
August 24th, 2011
1:09 pm
“When did you start noticing the debt? Was it in January 2009 too?”
A bit like the Captain and 1st Mate of the Titanic arguing who hit the iceberg…….the ship went down regardless……………
USinUK
August 24th, 2011
1:10 pm
How much of your federal tax dollars goes to a failed program???
why a quarter of a BILLION, thankyewverymuch:
“A little-noticed provision of the health legislation has rescued federal support for a controversial form of sex education: teaching youths to remain virgins until marriage.
The bill restores $250 million over five years for states to sponsor programs aimed at preventing pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases by focusing exclusively on encouraging children and adolescents to avoid sex. The funding provides at least a partial reprieve for the approach, which faced losing all federal support under President Obama’s first two budgets.”
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/03/26/AR2010032602457.html
Paul
August 24th, 2011
1:10 pm
getalife
Please put it out of your mind. It’ fine.
Dave R.
“Then why mention Perry’s name and link to a video of Perry at all, USinUK?
If you want to blame the POLICY, blame the POLICY.”
Is that not what Jay did? Discussed a program (abstinence-only sex education), gave data to show that program is ineffective compared to other programs, then linked to a video of a presidential candidate of a state that relies on such a policy wherein he asserted the program was a good program and any negative results indicated a failure of something other than the program.
Given Jay wrote “It is the assertion that belief should trump outcome. ”
Is not that the issue? That a candidate for president seems to indicate facts are what he wants them to be, regardless of what data shows?
BADA BING
August 24th, 2011
1:11 pm
TX Bumper Sticker…….”My Daughter Practiced Abstinance, and All I Got Was This Lousy Grandkid”
USinUK
August 24th, 2011
1:11 pm
“Which is EXACTLY why Jay wants to blame him and his policies for the higher rate!
Thanks for FINALLY admitting it, USinUK.”
nice try, but FLAIL
getalife
August 24th, 2011
1:12 pm
md,
The last campaign included addressing the debt.
Scalpel vs axe remember?
The suddenly fiscal cons decided to use terror hostage taking to give us our first down grade.
Lets get our facts right this cycle.
Thanks.
Late to the debate
August 24th, 2011
1:13 pm
Despite liberal evidence to the contrary, no one has ever gotten pregnant while being abstinent. You teach your kids about sex…I’ll teach mine. You pay for your kids sexually transmitted diseases. I’ll pay if mine comes home pregnant.
DebbieDoRight
August 24th, 2011
1:13 pm
Matti: What kind of MORONIC effing non-logical peabrain would argue otherwise?
Oh Matti — are you new on this blog?
Joe: And out of curiosity; how is some “welfare queen’ with 17 kids less “entitled” to $400/month than a white, Christian, lawyer with 17 foster kids?
Oh Joe, your ignorance is showing. Again.
USinUK
August 24th, 2011
1:14 pm
and since this was at the end of the last page, I’m so reposing:
How much of your federal tax dollars goes to a failed program???
why a quarter of a BILLION, thankyewverymuch:
“A little-noticed provision of the health legislation has rescued federal support for a controversial form of sex education: teaching youths to remain virgins until marriage.
The bill restores $250 million over five years for states to sponsor programs aimed at preventing pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases by focusing exclusively on encouraging children and adolescents to avoid sex. The funding provides at least a partial reprieve for the approach, which faced losing all federal support under President Obama’s first two budgets.”
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/03/26/AR2010032602457.html
Dave R. - 3k/4k/5k
August 24th, 2011
1:14 pm
Again, Paul, your disdain for all things Perry is showing.
If you want to blame the POLICY, blame the POLICY.
If you want to blame the PERSON, put a face to it. As Jay did.
godless heathen
August 24th, 2011
1:16 pm
So we have sunk to the point of implying that a woman taking in foster children was in it for the money. And next up on today’s episode of “How Low Will a Lib Go.”, we’ll revisit the rumor that Sarah Palin’s daughter was the real parent of Trig.
Dusty
August 24th, 2011
1:16 pm
Joe Plutocrat
If children are raised with morals, they don’t need a teenage idol to teach them about self control. Their parents have already done it. I think Britol Palin is more an example of what you don’t want to happen than how to prevent it. Whatever. I hope she has some success.
MATTI,
NO, I disagree that education is the one and all for everything. Morality is taught from birth by parents and most often by example. Yes, children are taught from the day they are born and in many ways.
I am all for formal education as the great mind expander. That was always the thought extended in our family. Morality makes life more meaningful and extends those benefits to others. But the most ignorant of people can be moral. The most intellectual of people can be evil. Moral and evil are not partners.
Bosch
August 24th, 2011
1:16 pm
Paul
Namejacking is never ok- especially when they do it to you. Personally , I think it was Peadawg.
Paddy O
August 24th, 2011
1:16 pm
AmVet – murder by code? So the action by Nazis, sanctioned by the law & governing body in Germany was NOT murder by your reply? You contort your philosophy as much as is humanly possible. Again: Explain how it is NOT murder?
USinUK
August 24th, 2011
1:16 pm
“So we have sunk to the point of implying that a woman taking in foster children was in it for the money. ”
yeah. no one on the right says that about poor women who HAVE kids.
Kamchak
August 24th, 2011
1:17 pm
Is not that the issue? That a candidate for president seems to indicate facts are what he wants them to be, regardless of what data shows?
Yeah, pretty much….
Granny Godzilla
August 24th, 2011
1:17 pm
I gotta’ be honest …
While I taught my ‘Zillettes that they should wait and be an adult before engaging in intercourse, I never believed that it was best for a
woman to be a virgin when she married.
Still don’t.
Liberal Larry
August 24th, 2011
1:17 pm
their spokesmodels are Bristo and Sarah- Midori
Well then I guess one example makes the whole thing true. Bristol must be the one that pushes that figure to near 70% of out of wedlock births for her entire tea party community. It is the those dreaded tea party folk that have near 70% out of wedlock birth rates right?
Uncle Jed
August 24th, 2011
1:18 pm
Teen pregnancy isn’t real…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOfTJAoiFg8
getalife
August 24th, 2011
1:18 pm
Bosch,
The vast rw conspiracy lives on this blog.
USinUK
August 24th, 2011
1:18 pm
“If you want to blame the PERSON, put a face to it. As Jay did.”
ohsweetjeebusonajetski
you can show someone’s SUPPORT for a failed policy without saying that he is AT FAULT for the situation.
keep flailing, Dave – just know that you only make yourself look foolish.
Kamchak
August 24th, 2011
1:19 pm
Personally , I think it was Peadawg.
Statistically speaking, I would put my money on Gandalf.
Doggone/GA
August 24th, 2011
1:19 pm
“Hmmm well I’ll make sure to tell the OB that. I wonder what that was that caused our second child to die in utero?”
Or my Mother’s spontaneous abortion that happened between my birth and my sisters birth?
USinUK
August 24th, 2011
1:19 pm
getalife – I read that at first as the vast vw conspiracy and wondered what Passats had to do with it
Liberal Larry
August 24th, 2011
1:22 pm
So we have sunk to the point of implying that a woman taking in foster children was in it for the money. And next up on today’s episode of “How Low Will a Lib Go.”, – godless heathen
Nope. You got it all wrong. When tea party women accept govt money to help foster children it is morally reprehensible. When liberal women accept the same it is the moral and proper thing to do. Got it?
Aquagirl
August 24th, 2011
1:22 pm
I think Britol (sic) Palin is more an example of what you don’t want to happen than how to prevent it.
Watching Dusty “explain” things is like watching Obama bowl.
godless heathen
August 24th, 2011
1:22 pm
“yeah. no one on the right says that about poor women who HAVE kids.”
Is that the “Two wrongs make a right argument.”, or the “But they did it first.” argument?
md
August 24th, 2011
1:23 pm
“Scalpel vs axe remember?
The suddenly fiscal cons decided to use terror hostage taking to give us our first down grade.
Lets get our facts right this cycle.”
Remember well, as another entitlement program was added to the stable of unaffordable programs. And then the vaunted passage of Paygo………which has been in mothballs since signing……….
Yes, I remember…………
Message from Matti
August 24th, 2011
1:23 pm
Dusty,
Thanks, as always, for disagreeing with me, but I never said, “education is the one and all for everything.” I never said you should not give children the advice to “Just say No.” I merely said that advice does NOT equal education, and if you want people to be empowered to make responsible choices, then education (knowledge) is the key element in there. But again, thanks for disagreeing!!
Paul
August 24th, 2011
1:23 pm
Late to the debate
“Despite liberal evidence to the contrary, no one has ever gotten pregnant while being abstinent.”
So how do women with tubal occlusion become pregnant?
Dave R.
What in that post showed a disdain for Perry?
My point was, the policy would not exist without the support of the governor. If a governor persists with mandating only one program when data indicate it is ineffective compared to other programs, then the program is ineffective and the governor who maintains the program without changes bears responsibility for outcomes.
If a doctor maintained injections of solution X would mitigate the effects of disease Y, although the beneficial results would be of low occurrence, and the doctor had studies available that showed solutions A, B, C and D had much higher incidents of positive outcomes, yet he till insisted on administering only solution X, does the doctor bear any responsibility for a greater than necessary incidence of negative effects?
USinUK
August 24th, 2011
1:23 pm
godless – no, it’s the “here ya go, here’s a mirror … take a good, long look” argument
Dave R. - 3k/4k/5k
August 24th, 2011
1:24 pm
Oh, yeah, and to Jay’s assertion that clearing a scientist of misconduct helps to settle the issue of global warming, he might wish to read and understand the entire article he cites “Global warming has been revealed as a hoax, even though every investigation of the data has upheld its accuracy”:
“Much of the current debate focuses on the viability of the statistical procedures he employed, the statistics used to confirm the accuracy of the results, and the degree to which one specific set of data impacts the statistical results. These concerns are all appropriate for scientific debate and to assist the research community in directing future research efforts to improve understanding in this field of research.”
To simplify it so that even Jay can understand it, the scientist has been cleared of manufacturing the data, but his methods and conclusions are still in question.
Hardly upheld.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
August 24th, 2011
1:25 pm
So now we have a “new rule”….
When discussing issues, you can never cite a person who states that position because it is “blaming” them.
The latter part of Davey post (12:05) was that Jay was trying to smear a Republican candidate. I guess its smearing a candidate to point out that they support failed policies. How absurd.
Liberal Larry
August 24th, 2011
1:25 pm
Govt is supposed to have a policy on teenage pregnancy and sex? As if they aint got enough other nanny state duties to do already? I thought we liberals wanted the government out of our bedrooms? Do we need a new govt regulatory body to regulate teenage sex and pregnancy? Yep. We shore do. Someone call Barack and tell him we needs a new teenage sex czar. And fast! Maybe Roman Polanski is available to take the job.
Joe the Plutocrat
August 24th, 2011
1:25 pm
DDR, “ignorance”? really? the gubvimint supporting ANY child is contrary to the tea party ethos, no? does it really matter to John Q. Public Taxpayer if his $400 goes to some black woman in SE Atlanta or some white woman in rural Minnesota? Now don’t get me wrong, if the Bachman’s supported/raised these 17 foster children on that was earned via private sector employment, and if they swore off or refused ANY gubvimint stipends ($400/child, for example), then I say OK, but it just seems to me that a woman who is presently a civil servant (federal employee), once worked as an IRS employee, and whose family farm ($250K) and family business ($160K) from Uncle Scam; we’ll that is some really weak TEA.
Dusty, morality is subjective. The Hitler Youth had a moral code. And as I said, I think abstinence has its place, but it is anything but effective. Sarah Palin got knocked up before she was married. Her daughter got knocked up before she graduated H.S., and her oldest son knocked up his bride-to-be as well. I mean, call it “bad luck” or “the fertile family” – anything but “abstinence”
Paul
August 24th, 2011
1:25 pm
Bosch
I did not mean the namejacking was okay. I meant getalife should no longer feel badly about his reaction.
Joe Mama
August 24th, 2011
1:25 pm
Snapper — “Hey Corey: did you say the same about the libs who called Bush “shrub” and “chimp in chief” and whatnot?”
Yeah, actually, I did.
I don’t call our elected leaders cutesy names, and I don’t have a very high opinion of people who do. I call our Presidents things like “President,” “Mr. Obama,” “Mr. Bush” and the like, whether I voted for them or not and whether I personally like them or not.
IMO, serious people who have serious arguments to make will make them in a serious manner. People who can’t manage anything better than “Obozo” or “Shrubya” don’t deserve to be taken seriously, IMO.
To be fair, I think I referred to “Attorney General Arschkraft” in a fit of pique a few years ago (if you don’t speak German, look it up), but other than that, I speak respectfully of our elected leaders. If you don’t, then you have no business calling others out on not doing it themselves. And if you’re not going to oppose it when people on your own side do it, then STFU with your faux poutrage when people on the other side do.
Midori
August 24th, 2011
1:26 pm
So we have sunk to the point of implying that a woman taking in foster children was in it for the money. And next up on today’s episode of “How Low Will a Lib Go.”,
I see let’s go all the way to the depths of Moby Dick’s feces and talk about all those mooching poor people who have the GALL to own microwaves and refrigerators.
I mean, one can only stand so much!!!
DebbieDoRight
August 24th, 2011
1:26 pm
So we have sunk to the point of implying that a woman taking in foster children was in it for the money. And next up on today’s episode of “How Low Will a Lib Go.”
Well, since she was such a lousy tax attorney, she had to get some money from somewhere now didn’t she? Sheesh!
PS: Remeber this one about McCain (see below), guess who put that out? HINT: It wasn’t a “Lib”. How low can a repug go? Or is that a rhetorical question?
The smears claimed that McCain had fathered a black child out of wedlock (the McCains’ dark-skinned daughter was adopted from Bangladesh), that his wife Cindy was a drug addict, that he was a homosexual, and that he was a “Manchurian Candidate” who was either a traitor or mentally unstable from his North Vietnam POW days.[125][135] The Bush campaign strongly denied any involvement with the attacks.
Uncle Jed
August 24th, 2011
1:26 pm
yeah. no one on the right says that about poor women who HAVE kids.
++++++++++++
I did, yesterday. At least that was the intended implication when I posted this link:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2029273/Woman-encouraged-husband-sex-12-year-old-girl-benefits.html#ixzz1VuYJfhoc
godless heathen
August 24th, 2011
1:26 pm
UsinUK,
“godless – no, it’s the “here ya go, here’s a mirror … take a good, long look” argument”
Show me where I have ever said poor women have babies for the money.
USinUK
August 24th, 2011
1:27 pm
“When discussing issues, you can never cite a person who states that position because it is “blaming” them. ”
hey, waitaminnit … so, if someone comes out and says that they support evolution, that we should BLAME them for penicillin-resistant bacteria?
or what if people say that they support the idea of man-made global warming, can we BLAME them for the disappearing iceburgs?
Doggone/GA
August 24th, 2011
1:27 pm
““Despite liberal evidence to the contrary, no one has ever gotten pregnant while being abstinent.”
Every heard of artificial insemination?
Dusty
August 24th, 2011
1:27 pm
OK Granny
You did not explain why you taught your children abstinence but think it is NOT good to be a virgin at marriage.
One thought does not agree with the other.
Message from Matti
August 24th, 2011
1:28 pm
Liberal Larry,
Nope. You got it all wrong. When tea party women speak publicly against accepting govt money for any reason, but meanwhile accept govt money to help foster children, bolster their family farm’s bottom line, and provide “counseling services” to pray with gay people (I thought that prayer thing was supposed to be free?), it is morally reprehensible. Got it? You’re welcome.
Joe the Plutocrat
August 24th, 2011
1:28 pm
GG, or as my dad told me the day he dropped me off at college; “…just because you are capable of fathering a child, does not mean you are capable of being a father…”
godless heathen
August 24th, 2011
1:28 pm
Debbie,
Nice attempt at deflection. Well done, but FAIL!
USinUK
August 24th, 2011
1:29 pm
godless – what part of “no one on the right” = YOU and only you???
Dave R. - 3k/4k/5k
August 24th, 2011
1:29 pm
“What in that post showed a disdain for Perry?”
Nothing. It’s the entirety of your posts regarding Perry that open you up to a lack of impartiality.
Your and USinUK’s technical wordsmithing is becoming a bit embarrassing when trying to defend the indefensible. Jay wants to paint Perry’s beliefs as blame – nothing else. If you don’t get that, then you’re not as smart as I always thought you two to be.
Jm
August 24th, 2011
1:30 pm
Pretend for a moment Perry controls the TX and teen pregnancy rates.
Would you really elect to pick someone else over a guy who delivers unbelievable job growth just because he does a bad job on teen pregnancy? Really?
Irrespective if how liberals answer, most people would pick the guy and overlook teen pregnancy issues. People want jobs jobs jobs. Someone needs to tell bookman an Obama: it’s the economy stupid.
Liberal Larry
August 24th, 2011
1:31 pm
The latter part of Davey post (12:05) was that Jay was trying to smear a Republican candidate.- keep up
Well of course. Smearing repubs is what we do. Dontcha know that
I guess its smearing a candidate to point out that they- support failed policies- keep up
I didn’t know state govts or federal govts were supposed to have official policies on teenage sex. As I said maybe we can establish a new regulatory body to regulate this aspect of our society and establish Roman Polanski as the teenage sex czar seeing as how he has some familiarity with the issue.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
August 24th, 2011
1:32 pm
If you don’t get that, then you’re not as smart as I always thought you two to be.
Means “If you dont see it my way, you’re not as smart as I would never have given you credit for being anyway”…..