With Gadhafi’s ouster, a world of possibilities for Libya and its people
Moammar Gadhafi, a longtime dictator and sponsor of the Lockerbie bombing and other acts of international terrorism, has finally lost his grip on power. Libyan rebels have taken the capitol city of Tripoli and are trying to capture Gadhafi, whose whereabouts are unknown. He chose to fight until the end and will now reap the consequences of that decision. Personally, I’d be surprised if he survives at the hands of those with a long, long list of grievances against him, many of a quite personal nature.
For that same reason, Bashar Assad must be shaking in his Syrian slippers. As the Guardian reports:
“The germs of Syria congratulate the rats of Libya,” read many a Tweet, referring to the terms used by each of the countries’ leaders for those fomenting unrest against the autocrats’ rule.
Others activists used the network to urge Assad to watch the news and realize he was next. The situation in Syria is less certain as the regime continues to crack down against almost exclusively unarmed protesters and without the appetite for military invention that helped push the Libyan rebels to victory.
But the impending end of Gadhafi’s rule – who came to power just a year before the Assad dynasty in Syria – has certainly bolstered morale among protesters.
It is also likely to rattle the regime in Damascus despite Assad’s assertions during a television interview last night that he is “not worried”.
While the assistance of NATO was no doubt invaluable to the Libyan rebels — a vindication of the policy adopted by President Obama and others — this remains a victory by and for the Libyan people. Tens of thousands, and eventually hundreds of thousands, took up the struggle against a tyrannical government, gambling their lives by fighting to free themselves from repression, and for the moment at least they have won that gamble.
As a result, they have earned the right to determine what happens next. It’s important to note that this is not a coup in which one strongman, usually with military backing, emerges to topple his predecessor. This is also not a revolt controlled or led from outside the country’s borders, or an invasion such as that which removed Saddam Hussein. This is something different, a genuine movement, a rising up of the people. And that is cause for optimism as we turn to the obvious question of what comes next?
Nobody really knows. Through their military assistance, the United States, NATO and the United Nations have all earned credibility with the Libyan people. Additional non-military assistance will now be needed as the Libyans attempt to rebuild government and identify and elevate new leadership. Again, that must be their battle. Those outside Libya should offer help as requested and needed, but we have neither the resources nor the wisdom to impose a solution. The Libyans have to do it themselves.
Even with such assistance, it is all too plausible that this rebellion will end as most have in the Middle East, with another dictator or power elite emerging to replace Gadhafi. There are no guarantees. However, what we do know for certain is that Gadhafi, a murderous tyrant, is gone. That opens up possibilities for Libya that did not exist a year ago. And if that part of the world is ever to stabilize and join the modern world, this is how it must happen.
– Jay Bookman
Tell us what you think about the site
Customer Care »
Vacation stops, manage subscriptions and more
AJC Services
Sections
Other Editions
Visitor Agreement | Privacy Statement
© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
1,049 comments Add your comment
Joe Mama
August 22nd, 2011
5:19 pm
@@ — “Anybody got an ethanol recipe they’d like to share?”
My grandpappy did, but he wouldn’t want me sharing it here where the revenooers could see it.
AmVet
August 22nd, 2011
5:20 pm
Right wing bloggers with Jay in the middle.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKAyhLtiKEA
(There’s their tone…)
getalife
August 22nd, 2011
5:21 pm
“USA! USA! USA!”
Yes, our country is on a roll.
Unleash the trillions corporate and lets get back to work.
Lets rebuild our country for a change.
Thulsa Doom
August 22nd, 2011
5:21 pm
AvVet,
Plenty of fish in the sea. Plenty of em.
Joe Mama
August 22nd, 2011
5:25 pm
TruthBe — “MUSLIMS ARE NOT OUR FRIENDS PERIOD.”
How ’bout the ones what’s got oil?
Thulsa Doom
August 22nd, 2011
5:26 pm
Its a minor point of contention but anyone remember that Lockerbie bombing terrorist that a Scottish court released to Khadafy a year or 2 ago because he was dying of cancer? He was sent back to live out his last months in Libya on “humanitarian” grounds. And apparently the guy is Aokay now. I wouldn’t mind getting him back from whatever new govt takes over in Libya so that we could plop his murderous ass right back in jail where he belongs.
Thulsa Doom
August 22nd, 2011
5:28 pm
Joe Mama
August 22nd, 2011
5:25 pm
TruthBe — “MUSLIMS ARE NOT OUR FRIENDS PERIOD.”
How ’bout the ones what’s got oil?
Still not our friends Joe Mama. Oil just happens to make strange bedfellows. Kinda like politics.
TruthBe
August 22nd, 2011
5:30 pm
I very much dislike Obama and I HATE his communist/socialist policies. He and his corrupt administration/czars are full of communists. Obama’s policies are destroying America’s future. Obama isn’t right for America. MUSLIMS are not our friends period. Wake Up!
pogo
August 22nd, 2011
5:30 pm
I hope that the people of Libya and Egypt and Syria can attain governments (which no doubt will involve religious principle and ideology) wherein religion has about as much say as it does in ours. There are two kinds of right and wrong; one deals with religious morality and the other is public law. When those two become mixed is where the trouble begins. The draft constitution that I read today (if authentic) that is being considered in Libya makes Sharia not only the religion but its principles being the law and the references in this document thereafter referring to “law” must be looked at in that light. That spells big trouble. If these country’s become “democratic” theocracies like Iran things could very well go from bad to worse. And while many on the left want to sing the praises of the “young” in these “revolutions” remember, it was the “young” that started the Iranian revolution as well. The “young” in Iran thought that the Shah was an oppressive leader and look at what they replaced him with; something much, much worse. I wouldn’t assume that just because revolution by the young has occurred that things will get better there. All kinds of forces are at work in these countries and many of them are participating for their greedy purposes.
getalife
August 22nd, 2011
5:31 pm
They will be our allies:
http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/libyasquare.jpg
1811/0311
August 22nd, 2011
5:32 pm
Headline: “Obama doctrine yielding benefits?”
“The president will achieve a tremendous military and political victory with Qadhafi’s ouster.”
This is true if Libya developes into a reasonable democracy.
If it regresses into an Islamic state (and the reconrd shows he had no follow-up plan) then the verdict will be different.
Only time will tell.
1811/0311
August 22nd, 2011
5:33 pm
getalife:
Many will want to be …………. but it is just too early to predict the final outcome.
TruthBe
August 22nd, 2011
5:34 pm
Joe Mama, NO! We don’t need their oil. We should drill our own oil and use other natural resourses. America is blessed with plenty, we don’t need to spend our money with people who hate us and want to destroy us.
josef
August 22nd, 2011
5:35 pm
Thulsa…
That thought about the Lockerbie bomber had crossed my mind…
TruthBe
You wouldn’t know a communiss, Ignatius, if one whapped you upside yore pointy little haid…ssshheesh…that went out during the Reagan years…
Mr_B
August 22nd, 2011
5:35 pm
“I very much dislike Obama and I HATE his communist/socialist policies.’
And EXACTLY which policies would those be? As a former Marxist, I sure haven’t seen any. ( Would be a nice change, though.)
Thulsa Doom
August 22nd, 2011
5:36 pm
Pogo,
Unfortunately the young often turn out to be nothing more than idealistic young fools. The shah was bad. the religious mullahs are worse.
Son of CT
August 22nd, 2011
5:38 pm
…a vindication of the policy adopted by President Obama and others… the United States, NATO and the United Nations have all earned credibility with the Libyan people…
Congratulations Jay — based on this and most of your recent posts you’ve pretty much become Cynthia Tucker!!
Thulsa Doom
August 22nd, 2011
5:38 pm
josef,
In the great scheme of things this one man isn’t that important. But I do believe that if what the new govt will or won’t do with this man will be symbolic of their values- and their politics. JMHO of course.
1811/0311
August 22nd, 2011
5:38 pm
Headline: “Patrick Sandusky, spokesman for the U.S. Olympic Committee, tweeted Monday that “I can confirm the U.S. will not be bidding for the 2020 Olympic Games.”
Well shucks. I was hoping it would be in Douglasville this time.
josef
August 22nd, 2011
5:40 pm
Pogo
Whatever the young do put in, it will be their own doings and it is their blood by which this revolution was fought…
And, folks, they will do what they will…can’t we at least wish them the best right now? We actually have a chance here to be the good guys for a change…it’s worth a shot, isn’t it? I mean, what’s the purpose in damning them before they even get started good…
1811/0311
August 22nd, 2011
5:40 pm
“The State Department helped facilitate an educational visit to the United States this year by the Libyan leader Moammar Gaddafi’s youngest son, a 27-year-old military commander who became a prominent figure in the violent crackdown against Libyan protesters, according to the U.S. company that hosted the visit.”
Oh well ……………
TruthBe
August 22nd, 2011
5:40 pm
josef, Looks like you’re still pissed off for losing the 1965 Miss Black Panther Pageant to Cynthia Tucker.
Thulsa Doom
August 22nd, 2011
5:41 pm
Someone mentioned Syria. We’ve all seen the wanton slaughters and shootings of civilians but where are the Syrians in terms of an organized resistance? Is there a credible resistance there whatsoever? Are they were Libya’s resistance was 6 months ago? All I’ve seen is the govts military assaults but I’ve heard or read nothing about whether there is armed opposition.
Joe Mama
August 22nd, 2011
5:42 pm
Doom — “Still not our friends Joe Mama. Oil just happens to make strange bedfellows. Kinda like politics.”
Oh, okay.
http://politicalhumor.about.com/library/images/blbushstayscrawford.htm
josef
August 22nd, 2011
5:43 pm
Thulsa….
That was pretty much what I was thinking…symbolic, yes, but what a symbol that would be…if they really are going to base it on Sharia, well we do know what Sharia says about this…turn him over to the families for decision on what to do…could be something of a turning point…
Joe Mama
August 22nd, 2011
5:45 pm
TruthBe — “Joe Mama, NO! We don’t need their oil. We should drill our own oil and use other natural resourses. America is blessed with plenty, we don’t need to spend our money with people who hate us and want to destroy us.”
So I take it you’re in favor of cutting off *all* energy imports and relying solely on domestic resources? Am I understanding you correctly?
josef
August 22nd, 2011
5:46 pm
“josef, Looks like you’re still pissed off for losing the 1965 Miss Black Panther Pageant to Cynthia Tucker.”
I’m old, but I’m not THAT old…I was only 11 then. I’m still pissed off at losing 1975 Left Wing Southern Rebel Queer Jew Boy to….
Logical Dude
August 22nd, 2011
5:46 pm
TruthBe: josef, Looks like you’re still pissed off for losing the 1965 Miss Black Panther Pageant to Cynthia Tucker.
So, if you don’t have a good argument, attack the messenger??? How does THAT help the conversation?
Thulsa Doom
August 22nd, 2011
5:46 pm
You know that watching all these revolutions with a nervous eye the Saudis, Kuwaitis, and other greedy pigs in the middle east have got to be gittin a little nervous right about now.
Thulsa Doom
August 22nd, 2011
5:47 pm
josef,
You are old enough to qualify as an old fart- old fart!
pogo
August 22nd, 2011
5:48 pm
Thulsa, MOSTof the time the young turn out to be nothing more than idealistic young fools. And the reason? Because they haven’t yet had to pay the price for their youthful dreams. And especially today where we have an entire generation that thinks that it deserves what it wants when it wants it with minimal effort. But hey, everyone has to learn, don’t they? But unfortunately, by the time you do, it is too late and things have gotten much worse and sadly many of todays children will just get angry for the foolish promises that were made to them that society just plain won’t be able to fulfill.
josef
August 22nd, 2011
5:50 pm
Mr B…
I used to be buddies with the head of the Communist Party in Mississippi…he always said that he was the only Communist in America….all the rest were FBI, Sovereignty Commission, and K K K operatives under cover…
1811/0311
August 22nd, 2011
5:50 pm
Today they opened the Martin Luther King, Jr. Memorial on the D.C. Mall.
This gives me another chance to let you libs. read one of his famous sermons:
“I invite you to take a few minutes to read two excerpts from Dr. King’s sermon entitled “Guidelines for a Constructive Church,” which he preached at Ebenezer Baptist Church in Atlanta on June 5, 1966.
This morning I would like to submit to you that we who are followers of Jesus Christ, and we who must keep his church going and keep it alive, also have certain basic guidelines to follow. Somewhere behind the dim mist of eternity, God set forth his guidelines. And through his prophets, and above all through his son Jesus Christ, he said that, “There are some things that my church must do. There are some guidelines that my church must follow.” And if we in the church don’t want the funds of grace cut off from the divine treasury, we’ve got to follow the guidelines. (That’s right) The guidelines are clearly set forth for us in some words uttered by our Lord and Master as he went in the temple one day, and he went back to Isaiah and quoted from him. And he said, “The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me (Yes, sir) to preach the gospel to the poor, (Yes, sir) he hath sent me to heal the broken-hearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, (Yes) to set at liberty them that are bruised, to preach the acceptable year of the Lord.”
. . . And then the church, if it is true to its guidelines, must preach the acceptable year of the Lord. (Yes, sir, Make it plain) You know the acceptable year of the Lord is the year that is acceptable to God because it fulfills the demands of his kingdom. Some people reading this passage feel that it’s talking about some period beyond history, (Make it plain) but I say to you this morning that the acceptable year of the Lord can be this year. (Yes) And the church is called to preach it.
The acceptable year of the Lord is any year (Amen) when men decide to do right.
The acceptable year of the Lord is any year when men will stop lying and cheating. (Amen, Make it plain)
The acceptable year of the Lord is that year when women will start using the telephone for constructive purposes (Yes) and not to spread malicious gossip and false rumors on their neighbors. (Right)
The acceptable year of the Lord is any year (Any year) when men will stop throwing away the precious lives that God has given them in riotous living. (Make it plain)
The acceptable year of the Lord (Yes) is that year when people in Alabama (Make it plain) will stop killing civil rights workers and people who are simply engaged in the process of seeking their constitutional rights. (Make it plain)
The acceptable year of the Lord (Yes) is that year when men will learn to live together as brothers. (Yes, sir)
The acceptable year of the Lord (Yes) is that year when men will keep their theology abreast with their technology.
The acceptable year of the Lord is that year when men will keep the ends for which they live abreast with the means by which they live. (Yes)
The acceptable year of the Lord is that year (That year) when men will keep their morality abreast with their mentality.
The acceptable year of the Lord is that year (Yes) when all of the leaders of the world will sit down at the conference table (Make it plain) and realize that unless mankind puts an end to war, war will put an end to mankind. (Yes)
The acceptable year of the Lord [clap] is that year when men will beat their swords into plowshares, (Yes) and their spears into pruning hooks: and nations will not rise up against nations, neither will they study war anymore. (Yes)
The acceptable year of the Lord is that year (That year) when men will allow justice to roll down like waters, and righteousness like a mighty stream. (Yes)
The acceptable year of the Lord is that year when we will send to Congress and to state houses of our nation (Yes, sir) men who will do justly, (Yes) who will love mercy, (Yes) and who will walk humbly with their God. (Yes)
The acceptable year of the Lord is that year (Yes, sir) when every valley shall be exalted, and every mountain will be made low; the rough places would be made plain, and the crooked places straight; and the glory of the Lord shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see it together.
The acceptable year of the Lord is that year when men will do unto others as they will have others do unto themselves. (Yes)
The acceptable year of the Lord is that year when men will love their enemies, (Yes) bless them that curse them, pray for them that despitefully use them.
The acceptable year of the Lord is that year when men discover that out of one blood God made all men to dwell upon the face of the earth. (Yes)
The acceptable year of the Lord is that year when every knee shall bow and every tongue shall confess the name of Jesus. And everywhere men will cry out, “Hallelujah, hallelujah! The kingdom of this world has become the kingdom of our Lord and His Christ, and He shall reign forever and ever. Hallelujah, hallelujah!”
The acceptable year of the Lord is God’s year. (Yes)
These are our guidelines, and if we will only follow the guidelines, we will be ready for God’s kingdom, (Yes) we will be doing what God’s church is called to do. We won’t be a little social club. (Make it plain) We won’t be a little entertainment center. But we’ll be about the serious business (Yes) of bringing God’s kingdom to this earth.”
Thulsa Doom
August 22nd, 2011
5:51 pm
Just saw Maxine Waters in a public forum say that the tea party can GO TO HELL! So much for civil discourse from Miss Waters. But it was nice of her to invite the tea party to her congressional district. Sort of…
Thomas
August 22nd, 2011
5:51 pm
Hate to be the negative one here but haven’t the majority of the mideastern countries been our “allies” at some point in time. We have seen the movie before- the first date goes well but is a slippery slope from there-
Anyway- would like some time and attention on our good brethern from south of the border. Remember the Economist ranked Mexico right there with Pakistan as a ticking time bomb.
Logical Dude
August 22nd, 2011
5:51 pm
Thulsa says: and other greedy pigs in the middle east
And how will we have Peace in the Middle East with you basically calling all of the leaders swine?
They are all human, imperfect. But hopefully some of them know peace can be attainable. But calling them all swine doesn’t help those on the other side who WANT peace.
josef
August 22nd, 2011
5:52 pm
Thulsa…
As Vonnegut said in “Slapstick…” I’m an old f*rt now with my memories…pretty soon I can join Helen Thomas and be forgiven the most outlandish things and folks’ll just say “…he’s old…bless his heart!”
Thulsa Doom
August 22nd, 2011
5:54 pm
pogo, couldn’t agree more. The Chinese and Japanese have some good sense in their reverence for the wisdom of the old. Plus could a billion Chinamen be wrong?
Joe Mama
August 22nd, 2011
5:55 pm
Doom — “You know that watching all these revolutions with a nervous eye the Saudis, Kuwaitis, and other greedy pigs in the middle east have got to be gittin a little nervous right about now.”
Suits me. Maybe if some of these oligarchs had listened to their people better and had taken proper care of them, then they wouldn’t be dealing with (or sweating) armed revolution right now.
And if they’re worried about their own skins, I don’t think they’re as likely to look the other way when AQ operates openly in their countries.
1811/0311
August 22nd, 2011
5:55 pm
Interesting:
“Christianity and the Presidency”
Posted on Friday, August 19, 2011 by Dr. Michael Youssef, Pastor, Church of the Apostles – Atlanta
There was a time when Americans sought presidents who did not just claim to be Christians; they also looked for candidates who reflected Christ in their daily lives. This does not appear to be the case anymore.
Leading into this election, the secular media mocks candidates who have a genuine faith in Christ – and heaven help candidates who seek to live out their Christian faith. In fact, today, some in the media have reached such a low point that true Christian faith is viewed as a liability rather than an asset.
In the past, some candidates have used Christians to get nominated and elected, but once in the halls of the White House, their aids refer to evangelicals, the very people who elected them, as “nuts”.
Understandably, some Christians feel jaded by politicians who claim to be Christians and yet act and govern in a way that communicates that they are ashamed of the true Christian faith.
The current President claims to be a Christian, yet he hardly goes to church. He forgets to issue an Easter proclamation, but he never forgets a Ramadan proclamation. He mocks some biblical passages and he seldom quotes the Bible, but he is forever quoting what he calls the “holy Qur’an.” He is all for aborting babies, changing the order of God’s creation by undermining the Defense of Marriage Act, and having government bureaucracies take over the church’s charitable role—and the list goes on and on.
Christians are not looking for perfection in a candidate; we know that only one perfect man/God ever walked the earth. But we are looking for candidates who are truthful and whose claims match their lives.
From my experience, American Christians are very forgiving when our leaders experience moral or ethical failures – but only if these leaders are truly repentant and exhibit humility. However, when leaders cover up their moral and ethical failures with self-righteousness, that does not bode well with us and we feel betrayed.
No one can see into another man’s heart. While I don’t have a dog in the fight, or a preferred candidate, I would caution my fellow believers to understand that what a candidate believes deeply will be reflected not only in their lives, but also in their policies—impacting our nation. “Out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks” (Luke 6:45).”
Thulsa Doom
August 22nd, 2011
5:56 pm
josef,
You got a ways to go before you get to the Helen Thomas point of bless his heart condescension. The day a younger smart ass like myself tells you “bless your heart” you’ll know you’re there. Of course by then I won’t be too far behind you so I best keep quiet at that point.
Paul
August 22nd, 2011
5:58 pm
I got this far, said “Say What?!!?” and stopped reading.
“There was a time when Americans sought presidents who did not just claim to be Christians; they also looked for candidates who reflected Christ in their daily lives”
If the foundation of an argument is wrong, the argument is… what’s the word?….. oh, yeah…. Wrong!
Dave R. - 3k/4k/5k
August 22nd, 2011
6:00 pm
“Barry is sure putting a licking on the neo-cons in terms of foreign policy, huh?
First, he surges into Afghanistan. A move that I was adamantly opposed to. However, he beat the cons at their own “tough on defense” game.”
Yeah, even MORE American dead in another failed attempt to take over a country that no one has taken over in forever. And one that, once we leave, will again revert back to pre-invasion “governance”. Typical short-term thinking by the newest member of the 101st Chairborne.
“Then he oversees the mission that kills Public Enema #1 (misspelled intentionally!) – Osama Bin Laden.”
Yeah, ensconced in that Situation Room surrounded by dozens of advisers really shows his national security chops.
“Now this, a true coalition of the willing, not just that bumper sticker nonsense of 2003, to end a massive genocide. An operation that the GOP leadership, and their lackeys in the blogosphere, bashed him for pretty much non-stop.”
Pimping arms to rebels who will care nothing for us in a year’s time is a strategy? To get rid of someone who posed no threat to the U.S.? You have lost all credibility to question anyone else’s complaints about military use in the future, AmVet.
The sycophants who will grasp at any straw to prop up this horrendous excuse for a President in order to minimize the other side of the political spectrum is simply astounding and pathetic. It is not surprising to see that we have become a nation without principles, willing to sell them at any political cost.
Paul
August 22nd, 2011
6:02 pm
AmVet
“The president of the United States never gets a vacation, not really. ”
Dana Perino, Press Secretary for George Bush, was asked on Fox about the Pres taking a vacation.
She said the issue is silly. Said pres never gets a real vacation as he’s never away from his responsibilities. Referred to crises under Bush when Bush was at Camp David and explained how the process works.
Then she pretty much indicated it was time for a serious topic. I don’t think the moderators were expecting that response.
Thulsa Doom
August 22nd, 2011
6:02 pm
Suits me. Maybe if some of these oligarchs had listened to their people better and had taken proper care of them, then they wouldn’t be dealing with (or sweating) armed revolution right now.- Joe Mama
True enough. I don’t think anybody will be feeling sorry for the Saudi King or any of his 30,000 pigs in the family reciving govt checks and feeding at the public oil trough. I saw a 60 minutes special in Kuwait or Saudi Arabia 5 years after Saddam was expelled from Kuwait. Unemployment was 40 something percent or more among the young. Why? Because regular jobs and starting off at the bottom is beneath most Saudi and Kuwait kids. They expect to major in Islamic philosophy at the local university and then get a 100k or more job as a manager. And I’m not talking management at McDonalds or KFC either. So who did these kids blame for their plight when Morley safer asked them? The U.S. of course because at that time oil prices were very low- under $2. I wonder if they still blame us today but just found a different reason.
josef
August 22nd, 2011
6:05 pm
PAUL
I find it intriguing that those who want a “good Christian” in office roundly despise and discredit the only one elected to office in my lifetime I I would call a man who lived his Christian faith and applied it to his philosophical political actions, Jimmy Carter…
Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)
August 22nd, 2011
6:06 pm
Well, I feel so HOLY after Scout’s sermons I might could drop my membership in the KKK. He never mentioned if the Bible forbids Socialism but I’m sure it does. And I’m sure it’s against Social Security and Medicare and Medicaid and all those other Communist guvmint programs.
Heck, I might just skip going to the Church of Holiness next Sunday and wait for Scout’s sermon on this blog. I’m getting bored with the Rev. Postlewaite anyway. And besides, it’s downright dangerous out there on the road with all those hungry and bored church-goers on their way out of church.
Amen! Scout. And keep the sermons coming. It ain’t what you do or what you call people that counts. It’s what’s in your Heart! In my heart I’m a great fellow, no matter how many people I hate.
Thulsa Doom
August 22nd, 2011
6:06 pm
Paul,
I could be mistaken but I believe that regardless of vacation or Xmas or whatever that the potus has a mandatory state of the world security briefing every single morning of his presidency. I’m assuming when they go on vacation its really not a vacation. They probably are still working either an entire morning or at least several hours throughout the day just being informed of what’s going on. I’m looking now and seeing Obama talk about Libya. He’s not REALLY on vacation. No wonder all these guys have gray hair just a couple years into their 1st term.
TruthBe
August 22nd, 2011
6:07 pm
Joe Mama, No that’s what you said. America can buy oil from other Nations and People but we shouldn’t be kept from using some of our own resourses. Canada, Mexico, Northsea, Africa, etc..These are better sources than Mideast Opec Nations.
poison pen
August 22nd, 2011
6:09 pm
“And can we stop referring to a professional adults who’s made a decision to serve, knowing full well it may cost life or limb, as ‘kids’ or ‘children?’ It’s demeaning.”
Paul. If you think a kid at 18 is a professional adult then I feel sorry for you. I raised 2 fine children who have since given us grandkids and I can tell you I would not want to send them to War, unless our country was attacked, then I would go again.
They aren’t even old enough to drink, but I guess in your wars any age is ok with you, if & when your kids are 18 then you should send them, because you think they are responsible adults.
Professional adults at 18, truely amazing. Have you ever served? and if so did you feel that you were a pro?
Joe Mama
August 22nd, 2011
6:09 pm
Dave R. “You have lost all credibility to question anyone else’s complaints about military use in the future, AmVet.”
Speaking of which, Dave, have you completed your research into the NATO Charter? I’d like to know where it says that NATO is forbidden to act militarily unless a member nation is attacked, as you claimed to me back in June.
Dave R. - 3k/4k/5k
August 22nd, 2011
6:09 pm
I could not care less if the President of the United States is a Christian or not.
All I want him or her to do is focus on and fix the problems we have in the United Frikkin’ States of America, and nowhere else!
Dave R. - 3k/4k/5k
August 22nd, 2011
6:11 pm
Speaking of which, Joe Mama, when did you stop beating your wife?
Crawl back under your rock.
TruthBe
August 22nd, 2011
6:12 pm
Logical Dude, josef fired first. Look at the earlier blogs. I except your apology.
Joe Mama
August 22nd, 2011
6:16 pm
TruthBe “Joe Mama, No that’s what you said.”
And that’s why I *asked* you, because you seemed to be saying that. Thank you for the clarification.
“America can buy oil from other Nations and People but we shouldn’t be kept from using some of our own resourses.”
Good. Can I also look forward to your support for development of solar, wind and advanced nuclear power technologies?
“Canada, Mexico, Northsea, Africa, etc..These are better sources than Mideast Opec Nations.”
North Sea generally = Norway and the UK, and IIRC, neither of those nations exports much petroleum. And when you’re talking about African countries with oil, you’re starting to get into Muslim territory. You sure you’re okay with us buying energy resources that come from there?
You might want to look into Brazil, too; a sizable offshore oil field was confirmed late last year, IIRC.
josef
August 22nd, 2011
6:17 pm
TruthBe…
Nope. You fired first…wildly and without aim…but it did come my direction, so I fired back…
Thulsa Doom
August 22nd, 2011
6:17 pm
Well I was watching the Five on Fox at 5 pm. I’m addicted now. The libs can say all they want to about faux news. But the reality is that Kimberly Guilfoyle is hot- damn hot. And Andrea Tantaro is pretty nice looking too. Bob Beckel is a liberal but he’s still fun to listen to and does make some good liberal points. Damn I love it when Guifoyle is wearing a short skirt. Suhmoking.
Paul
August 22nd, 2011
6:17 pm
Thulsa
That was Ms Perino’s point – it’s not at all what many think of as a vacation.
Good afternoon, josef
I agree. Like his personality or policies or not, he did, I think, try to practice what he felt the principles are.
I think a lot of people think “religious belief = an easy indicator of political or social beliefs.” Not so.
Look at Sen Harry Reid, Gov Romney and Gov Huntsman. All members of the same faith, yet their political views are widely different in specifics, altho I think they hold the same overarching goals for the country and its people.
Redneck Convert
“He never mentioned if the Bible forbids Socialism but I’m sure it does.”
Some people would be surprised.
Granted, of course, one’s definition of socialism is along the lines of Warren Buffet’s critics’ definition of socialism.
Joe Mama
August 22nd, 2011
6:19 pm
Dave R. — “Speaking of which, Joe Mama, when did you stop beating your wife?”
Yeah, I didn’t *think* you would. I was pretty sure that your claim about needing to do research was just a bunch of dodging and bulldada. Thanks for the confirmation on that, Dave-O. (laughing)
“Crawl back under your rock.”
It’s a rock called vacation, Dave, and the answer is no.
I shall continue to reply to you when and how I see fit, subject to the conditions and requirements imposed by our host. Too bad for you if you don’t like it.
They BOTH suck
August 22nd, 2011
6:20 pm
TD @ 6:17
Whats dude? Hope all is well
I must agree with you on your last post. Fox does have the babes without a doubt
Great marketing scheme and so so easy on the eyes
Thulsa Doom
August 22nd, 2011
6:21 pm
Joe Mama,
Good grief. Are you right back to arguing and disputing every single sentence that someone writes like at 6:16? Sheesh.
jm
August 22nd, 2011
6:21 pm
Ah the liberal lies. They just go on, and on, and on.
http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2011/08/21/the-school-reform-deniers/
Common Sense isn't very Common
August 22nd, 2011
6:21 pm
Damn, the party started without me
Maybe Libya can split into North and South and have a real set to
LOL
Joe Mama
August 22nd, 2011
6:23 pm
Doom — “Good grief. Are you right back to arguing and disputing every single sentence that someone writes like at 6:16?”
I did nothing of the sort. Are you right back to not reading the things you respond to? (giggling)
“Sheesh.”
Exactly what I was thinking.
jm
August 22nd, 2011
6:23 pm
Lies lies and more damn lies from liberals.
For example, there’s debate about charter schools and whether being freed from a union contract, as the charters mostly are, really matters. American Federation of Teachers president Randi Weingarten (with whom I probably spend the most time in interviews for the book) brags about how the Brooklyn charter school she runs is unionized and is a raging success. In May, former Democratic National Committee chairman and Weingarten friend Howard Dean was on MSNBC’s “Morning Joe” saying the same thing. The fact is that this teachers’ union-run charter school — with only 28% of its students testing proficient in English and 34% in math – got an “F” in student performance and student progress for the latest completed school year annual report card that New York City gives out to all schools.
http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2011/08/21/the-school-reform-deniers/
Wake up libs.
josef
August 22nd, 2011
6:23 pm
PAUL
I’ll be blunt on this one…when Carter announced his run, it scared the sh*t out of me and I’ll admit to my prejudices in saying this…a Southern Baptist deacon from Plains, Georgia? Run for the hills…after meeting the man, I grudgingly questioned that, and having known many good, practicing Christians of the Baptist persuasion, I recognized that I could be wrong…well, I was…I wound up admiring him and his unflagging support of human rights…he’s a good man and while I still hold that Hamas thingie against him, his al Het notwithstanding, I do believe he practices what he preaches…
Thulsa Doom
August 22nd, 2011
6:24 pm
They BOTH suck,
Yeah. They’re all hot. Megan Kelly and others too. And whether or not you agree with them or not they’re all highly educated. I think all of them Megyn Kelly, Guilfoyle, Tantaros, and Lis Wiehl are also attorneys. I just start salivating when I see Guilfoyle wearing a short, tight skirt and they show side views of her and she’s on the end of the table of course.
jm
August 22nd, 2011
6:24 pm
WNYC simply and fairly presented the two points of view: the City’s claim that these were teachers with awful records, and the teachers’ claim that they were wonderful pedagogues targeted by tyrannical bureaucrats. I had no dog in this fight; either story would have been a good one – featherbedding incompetents or targeted whistle blowers drummed out of class. But I took the approach that there was lots that could be knowable about these idle teachers. First, I could spend as much time as possible with those who have the greatest stake in the argument — the Rubber Roomers themselves – and get them to tell me the specifics of their cases or to give me their own (union-paid) lawyers’ briefs in defense of the charges against them. Almost all refused to provide any such documents. That was telling, though not dispositive.
Most important, I could read the thousands of pages of testimony offered by both sides in their arbitration hearings to develop an objective view of whether the charges of incompetence made sense. That made all the difference. For example, would you want someone teaching your kids if her lawyer hours contesting the evidence of whether she had actually ever had custody of her teachers’ manual, which was her defense to the charge that she hadn’t prepared lesson plans, graded papers, or set up her classroom properly? Or, would you want your son or daughter being taught by a teacher whose defense for appointing the biggest kid in her class as the “enforcer” to keep the other children in line was that she was teaching “self-governance”?
In another case, trumpeted on the website of the United Federation of Teachers as an example of school officials targeting a terrific teacher simply because she was a high-salary veteran, the record – which was uncontested by the teacher’s own lawyer – showed that she had been found passed out dead drunk in front of her high school history students.
A few of the 800-plus Rubber Roomers were probably put there unfairly. But for me – and for my readers after I reported on the evidence — the reality that these were rooms full of malingerers became clear.
http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2011/08/21/the-school-reform-deniers/
jm
August 22nd, 2011
6:25 pm
Reading the hundred-page union contracts in force across the country pierced the unions’ claim that these are standard agreements only meant to provide decent working conditions for teachers and protect them from abuse at the hands of tyrannical principals. They turned out to be treasure troves of small-print clauses that make a mockery of the notion that public education’s priority is to nourish children rather than protect the adults. Like the one in New York City that specified the work day down to the half-minute and doesn’t allow principals to comment on the format of a teacher’s lesson plan. Or the ones in Wisconsin that paid teachers to attend both the state and regional union chapters’ conventions.
http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2011/08/21/the-school-reform-deniers/
josef
August 22nd, 2011
6:25 pm
jm
Teachers’ unions are not a factor in Georgia…we don’t have them…
Paul
August 22nd, 2011
6:26 pm
poison pen
“Paul. If you think a kid at 18 is a professional adult then I feel sorry for you. I raised 2 fine children who have since given us grandkids and I can tell you I would not want to send them to War, unless our country was attacked, then I would go again.”
back atcha’ -
My father served on a large Navy ship in WWII. They called the captain “the old man” as he was the oldest on board. He was around 25. They were all professionals.
Many of my friends were off to Vietnam at 18. Some enlisted, some not. But all were professionals, not kids or children.
Yes, I think an 18-year old who knows what this country has faced for the past dozen years and volunteers to serve is an adult, and in today’s military, a professional. I consider the enlisted and officer corps to be professionals. Not children, not kids.
I find it interesting you say “I would not want to send them to War, unless our country was attacked” yet you opposed or action in Afghanistan? Or did I misread that?
And let’s also stop with the pious personal appeals? When my children turned 18 I didn’t ’send’ or force them anywhere. They were mature adults who made their own decisions and I supported them.
Try going up to an Airman or Private out of basic or his/her first training school and addressing them as ‘kid’ or ‘child’, tell them they’re unprofessional and are not an adult.
I doubt you’ll get a positive response.
Thulsa Doom
August 22nd, 2011
6:27 pm
Joe Mama,
Come on now Joe. I have a feeling you would argue the Bill Clinton definition of what is the definition of is if someone put it out there. What’s this about you beating your wife? Was dave just messin with you or did you wallop the woman good or give her the backhand of discipline?
jm
August 22nd, 2011
6:27 pm
I have now worked my way through a fog of claims that give new meaning to the notion that if you repeat something that is plainly untrue enough times it starts to seem true, or at least becomes part of the debate. For example, there’s the refrain from the deniers, including Ravitch, that charter schools skim only the best students in a community. Some may, but not the best ones like those in the KIPP or Success Academies networks, where students are admitted by lottery and which teach the same ratio of learning disabled students as the traditional public schools. Those are facts.
http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2011/08/21/the-school-reform-deniers/
Soothsayer
August 22nd, 2011
6:28 pm
1. Foment “unrest” in target country.
2. Install comprador leadership in target country.
3. Kill off or marginalize original “rebels.”
4. Reap the rewards of the riches of that country.
Not very complicated is it?
Mr_B
August 22nd, 2011
6:28 pm
Josef: Shalom! I heard that once J. Edgar Hoover called all the agents that had infiltrated various CPA cells across the country back to Washington for a debriefing. The Party completely disappeared in 12 western states.
And “amen” on your Carter comment.
“Truth”; still waitinging on all those communist policies you hate so much.
Dave R. - 3k/4k/5k
August 22nd, 2011
6:28 pm
Thulsa, I just keep attracting the cyber-stalkers.
I’m a stalker magnet!
jm
August 22nd, 2011
6:29 pm
josef 6:25 – here you go buddy. that same canard.
A. I care about education all over this country, not just GA (or FL)
B. That’s a bunch of bunk. The association wields huge influence. Witness Roy’s fall and other manipulations.
Or there’s the unions’ canard, also routinely repeated in the press (and even in a thoughtful review of my book in Sunday’s New York Times) that unions can’t be the problem because southern states with weak laws protecting unions have some of the worst performing school systems. First, teachers unions generally have so much political clout that they are often strong even in states without strong unions generally. Second, in the last decade as reform-minded officials in states like Florida and Louisiana have pushed for accountability, the results have been clear. For example, before Jeb Bush — probably the most ardent education reform governor ever — took office in Florida in 1999, his state’s fourth graders ranked third from the bottom in reading; when he left, they ranked sixth from the top. Meantime, New Orleans, which was among the nation’s worst performing urban school system before Hurricane Katrina, now ranks as one of the best because of the reformers’ overhaul that accompanied the rebuilding of the system following the hurricane.
http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2011/08/21/the-school-reform-deniers/
Dave R. - 3k/4k/5k
August 22nd, 2011
6:31 pm
Thulsa, Dave was messin’ with him. Drop it.
TruthBe
August 22nd, 2011
6:31 pm
josef, As usual you’re wrong. But that’s OK because you’re doing the best you can. As old as you are. Really old that is. Have Fun. Josef as for my aim????? Pretty good how about yours?
jm
August 22nd, 2011
6:31 pm
Fact: American public education is failing our children and it is especially failing the disadvantaged children who need it the most. Amazingly, the unions occasionally even deny this, claiming that all of the multiple international comparisons are somehow inaccurate. One of the challenges in doing the book was picking from the array of shocking, depressing statistics showing how poorly our public schools are performing compared to those in other countries, including countries we don’t usually think of as our global competitors in the knowledge economy.
• Fact: This is not a matter of money. We spend much more per student than those other countries for our lousy results, and while we’ve kept increasing our spending, we haven’t improved performance.
http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2011/08/21/the-school-reform-deniers/
josef
August 22nd, 2011
6:32 pm
PAUL
When Oldest Boy came home from basic, 19, and was a bit too, well, “grown up,” Unmentionable told him, “don’t go gettin’ uppity around here, Butch, some of us diapered your lil nekkid butt…!”
But, I’m old enough to remember the days of Vietnam when you could die for your country but couldn’t vote or have a beer…can vote now, but can’t have a beer…used to, but not now…
@@
August 22nd, 2011
6:34 pm
Thanks for the recipes! I’m not a heavy drinker, but dirty martinis take me back to my childhood. Dad always gave me his gin & vermouth infused olives.
At social gatherings, I’m the one who goes around asking “Are you gonna eat those olives?”
Yummy!
Dave R. - 3k/4k/5k
August 22nd, 2011
6:34 pm
Geez, Paul, focusing on the minutiae this evening are we?
Paul
August 22nd, 2011
6:34 pm
josef
I knew a man, retired admiral (think about a LtGeneral equivalent) who new Pres Carter when he was serving. Spoke highly of his character. I may have thought him out of his element, a bit lacking in some of the requirements of office (and I can chalk some of that up to the fact he was an engineer
) but I do not doubt his faith.
So there it is again – one can admire a person’s adherence to his beliefs and his desire to practice them yet disagree with his policies or politics.
Joe Mama
August 22nd, 2011
6:34 pm
Doom — “Come on now Joe. I have a feeling you would argue the Bill Clinton definition of what is the definition of is if someone put it out there.”
Come on now, Doom. I didn’t argue with him. If you look at his post and my reply, you’ll see that I’m asking for *clarification,* not argument.
But when it comes to you and Dave, sure, I’m down for an argument.
“What’s this about you beating your wife? Was dave just messin with you or did you wallop the woman good or give her the backhand of discipline?”
Dave’s mad at me because I slammed him good on the topic of NATO back in June. He doesn’t like to be reminded of it. He made a number of claims and assertions that turned out to either be outright wrong (example: he claimed that Ireland’s a NATO member state; it isn’t) or completely unsupported (example: he claimed that NATO was restrained by its charter from acting military unless a member state is attacked — but the charter says no such thing)
I wouldn’t hit my wife, but even if I were so inclined, it’d be a bad idea. As you know, my wife’s Hispanic, and she’d likely knife me in my sleep if I did something like that.
Anyway, keep it up, because I’m heading out to have dinner with my wife. Maybe I’ll post later about how I didn’t hit her, just to see Dave call me a liar. (laughing)
Thulsa Doom
August 22nd, 2011
6:35 pm
Dave R.,
You got more stalkers than Carter has peanuts. You must be doin somethin right.
Joe Mama
August 22nd, 2011
6:36 pm
Military should = militarily in my previous post.
Out now.
Paul
August 22nd, 2011
6:36 pm
Dave R
Which post?
Dave R. - 3k/4k/5k
August 22nd, 2011
6:37 pm
I can’t even begin to explain how horrible the thought of a dirty martini is to me.
But then, since I really don’t do hard liquor and hate olives, that is understandable.
josef
August 22nd, 2011
6:39 pm
jm
I work in education in Georgia…the associations have no power…and if you know something the teachers don’t on that…fill us in…we could use a little blat’
TruthBe…
Hate to bust your stereotypic bubble…but I grew up with a gun in my hands…Granny could pop the eyes out of a moccasin from across the slough…Great Granny popped her a couple of Yankee invaders come to close her school…personally, I prefer baseball bats and switch blades, but am a pretty good shot. My own kids learned gun safety and target practice pretty much as soon as they could walk and talk…I’m a big Second Amendment feller, too…
Doggone/GA
August 22nd, 2011
6:39 pm
Joe Mama “I wouldn’t hit my wife, but even if I were so inclined, it’d be a bad idea. As you know, my wife’s Hispanic, and she’d likely knife me in my sleep if I did something like that.”
Did you ever hear what some Senator had to say about the Clinton affair? Something like: “If that was me the next thing I’d hear would be ‘How do I reload this thing?’”
Dave R. - 3k/4k/5k
August 22nd, 2011
6:40 pm
“Dave’s mad at me because I parsed and word-smithed my way out of a discussion on the topic of NATO back in June. Which he hates.”
Fixed your typo, Joe Mama. No thanks needed
Thulsa Doom
August 22nd, 2011
6:40 pm
I wouldn’t hit my wife, but even if I were so inclined, it’d be a bad idea. As you know, my wife’s Hispanic, and she’d likely knife me in my sleep if I did something like that. – Joe Mama
Joe Mama,
As a Spanish speaker I’m very familiar with Hispanic women- and culturally most of them come from cultures where the women are pretty much 2nd class citizens. From all the Hispanic cultures I’ve seen the women don’t fight back if they’re hit. What the man says is the law and that’s that. The women tend to be very meek. Not sure which of the Hispanic cultures your wife is from but I can’t think of any of the Hispanic cultures where women aren’t well behind the man in terms of status. Maybe Puerto Rico where Puerto Rican women tend to have a lot of freedom but that’s about it.
josef
August 22nd, 2011
6:41 pm
Joe Mama…
Do Lorena Bobbit ring a bell…
1811/0311
August 22nd, 2011
6:41 pm
Redneck @ 6:06:
Socialism in the Bible?
Just remember the parable of the talents that Jesus used.
The one given ten talents when and made ten more and was “praised” for his hard work.
The one given five talents when and made five more and was “praised” for his hard work.
The person given one talent went and hit it and then brought it to his master who condemned him for being “lazy” !
The Bible reports …………. you decide.
1811/0311
August 22nd, 2011
6:42 pm
Excuse me: “went and made”
Thulsa Doom
August 22nd, 2011
6:42 pm
Dave R,
Joe mama does have that habit of getting into semantics wars and word games. It gets old in a New York minute.
Dave R. - 3k/4k/5k
August 22nd, 2011
6:42 pm
Just the whole “children” and “kids” military thing, Paul.
I understand the principle behind the arguments (on both sides) but it just seems to have gone on a bit too long, ya know?
josef
August 22nd, 2011
6:43 pm
Thulsa…
Costa Rica, Argentina. Chile, Uruguay…and I know I’d think twice before taking on a Dominicana or a Cubana…
@@
August 22nd, 2011
6:45 pm
Dave R.:
But then, since I really don’t do hard liquor and hate olives, that is understandable.
Hard liquor? Never. It’s salt in the olives & brine. I’ve heard tell it’s a woman’s craving due to adrenal exhaustion. Overall, we work longer hours than men.