With Gadhafi’s ouster, a world of possibilities for Libya and its people
Moammar Gadhafi, a longtime dictator and sponsor of the Lockerbie bombing and other acts of international terrorism, has finally lost his grip on power. Libyan rebels have taken the capitol city of Tripoli and are trying to capture Gadhafi, whose whereabouts are unknown. He chose to fight until the end and will now reap the consequences of that decision. Personally, I’d be surprised if he survives at the hands of those with a long, long list of grievances against him, many of a quite personal nature.
For that same reason, Bashar Assad must be shaking in his Syrian slippers. As the Guardian reports:
“The germs of Syria congratulate the rats of Libya,” read many a Tweet, referring to the terms used by each of the countries’ leaders for those fomenting unrest against the autocrats’ rule.
Others activists used the network to urge Assad to watch the news and realize he was next. The situation in Syria is less certain as the regime continues to crack down against almost exclusively unarmed protesters and without the appetite for military invention that helped push the Libyan rebels to victory.
But the impending end of Gadhafi’s rule – who came to power just a year before the Assad dynasty in Syria – has certainly bolstered morale among protesters.
It is also likely to rattle the regime in Damascus despite Assad’s assertions during a television interview last night that he is “not worried”.
While the assistance of NATO was no doubt invaluable to the Libyan rebels — a vindication of the policy adopted by President Obama and others — this remains a victory by and for the Libyan people. Tens of thousands, and eventually hundreds of thousands, took up the struggle against a tyrannical government, gambling their lives by fighting to free themselves from repression, and for the moment at least they have won that gamble.
As a result, they have earned the right to determine what happens next. It’s important to note that this is not a coup in which one strongman, usually with military backing, emerges to topple his predecessor. This is also not a revolt controlled or led from outside the country’s borders, or an invasion such as that which removed Saddam Hussein. This is something different, a genuine movement, a rising up of the people. And that is cause for optimism as we turn to the obvious question of what comes next?
Nobody really knows. Through their military assistance, the United States, NATO and the United Nations have all earned credibility with the Libyan people. Additional non-military assistance will now be needed as the Libyans attempt to rebuild government and identify and elevate new leadership. Again, that must be their battle. Those outside Libya should offer help as requested and needed, but we have neither the resources nor the wisdom to impose a solution. The Libyans have to do it themselves.
Even with such assistance, it is all too plausible that this rebellion will end as most have in the Middle East, with another dictator or power elite emerging to replace Gadhafi. There are no guarantees. However, what we do know for certain is that Gadhafi, a murderous tyrant, is gone. That opens up possibilities for Libya that did not exist a year ago. And if that part of the world is ever to stabilize and join the modern world, this is how it must happen.
– Jay Bookman
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1,049 comments Add your comment
Adam
August 22nd, 2011
10:54 am
USinUK: as for the economy – it was trashed when O got here. you can’t even compare the two
Careful! You left yourself open to “Bush gets blame but not credit” BS.
Doggone/GA
August 22nd, 2011
10:55 am
“A – What does that mean — “The AMERICAN thing to do”?”
I refer you to how we treated Germany and Japan after WW2 as an answer
getalife
August 22nd, 2011
10:55 am
I think the Obama doctrine saved us trillions of our money and no US casualties.
If you can’t see this change, there really is no debate.
Good little liberal
August 22nd, 2011
10:55 am
Jay
Maybe not. And of course Israel is now have border wars with Egypt, its only Middle eastern Ally. Of course we have turned our back on Israel.
You do understand that Israel is a nuclear power, don’t you?
Paul
August 22nd, 2011
10:55 am
GLL
Executive is Commander in Chief and commits military.
Congress can keep the action going or shut it down thru appropriations.
It’s pretty simple.
Bosch
August 22nd, 2011
10:55 am
“So a strong president breaks the law. ”
So, GLL call you Rep. and have him start articles of impeachment.
Adam
August 22nd, 2011
10:56 am
GLL: So a strong president breaks the law.
I see.
Now THAT is rich.
USinUK
August 22nd, 2011
10:56 am
GLL – “Why now? Why overthrown one of the few remaining stable governments?”
you seem to forget that, only recently did we end our embargo of Libya
and WE didn’t overthrow the government – the people did (we just kept them from being crushed by tanks)
Adam
August 22nd, 2011
10:56 am
HEADLINE: Morality Missing In National Debt Debate
jm
August 22nd, 2011
10:57 am
TX works, CA doesn’t. Choice: pick the future. (aside from whether you think Perry is a decent candidate or not)
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2011/08/21/rick_perry_keeps_it_simple_111037.html
USinUK
August 22nd, 2011
10:57 am
“Careful! You left yourself open to “Bush gets blame but not credit” BS.”
adam – we’re already soaking in it.
Normal
August 22nd, 2011
10:58 am
Off topic sorta, but an interesting read…
“Compared with a decade ago, the military is bigger, more closely connected to the CIA, more practiced at taking on terrorists and more respected by the American public. But its members also are growing weary from war, committing suicide at an alarming rate and training less for conventional warfare.”
“The Army and Marine Corps in particular — both still heavily engaged in Afghanistan — will struggle to retrain, rearm and reinvigorate their badly stretched forces even as budgets begin to shrink. And the troops themselves face an uncertain future; many are scarred by the mental strains of battle, and some face transition to civilian life at a time of economic turmoil and high unemployment. The cost of veterans’ care will march higher.”
http://www.navytimes.com/news/2011/08/ap-military-pentagon-adjusts-after-september-11-082111/
DebbieDoRight
August 22nd, 2011
10:59 am
Why now? Why overthrown one of the few remaining stable governments?
Ask the people of Libya.
Good little liberal
August 22nd, 2011
11:00 am
Adam
Is this the question?
Am I to take that to mean you do indeed think of and speak of atheists in a derogatory manner?
You tend to think that everyone thinks like you, but no, I pride myself in not putting people in nice little boxes and thinking that because a person thinks a certain way on a specific issue that they are always bad. That is called bigotry.
Am I clear?
Brosephus
August 22nd, 2011
11:00 am
TX works, CA doesn’t. Choice: pick the future. (aside from whether you think Perry is a decent candidate or not)
Are you campaigning for big government? TX works because public sector jobs have grown twice as much as private sector jobs…..
Good little liberal
August 22nd, 2011
11:00 am
DebbieDoRight
I’m pretty sure that the “people of Libya” aren’t crazy about their country being a war zone.
jm
August 22nd, 2011
11:01 am
“public sector jobs have grown twice as much as private sector jobs”
someone’s been listening too much to lying pundits on msnbc
Adam
August 22nd, 2011
11:02 am
GLL: Yes, that was the question. A followup is, if you don’t speak of atheists in a derogatory manner, then why did you make the comparison you did earlier? Are 600,000 lives in one moment in history equivalent to all the wars and crusades carried out by Christians over time?
Bosch
August 22nd, 2011
11:02 am
“I pride myself in not putting people in nice little boxes and thinking that because a person thinks a certain way on a specific issue that they are always bad.”
So, am I in danger of being struck by lightning because I am on the same web site as GLL?
jm
August 22nd, 2011
11:02 am
Bro, here you go. Read up.
http://www.politicalmathblog.com/
Uncle Jed
August 22nd, 2011
11:03 am
AmVet
August 22nd, 2011
10:49 am
Jed, it’s not worth the time or effort to play your silly BHO bashing games.
Now if you want to discuss something of actual significance, go right ahead.
I have paid very little attention to these Arab uprisings.
But I do know the following – Bush’s botch, lie-filled invasion
+++++++++++++++++++
I guess “silly ___ bashing games” are in the eye of the beholder. Personally, I think it is not silly to ponder why our president, one usually eager for face time, even considered not having a photo snapped of himself doing something that was public knowledge. It merits discussion. Was he afraid he would make a bad shot? Well heck, which golfer hasn’t? Was he afraid it would not be useful to be seen playing golf while so many are suffering in this economy? If so, he should not have gone on vacation. Was it a security threat? I doubt that or he wouldn;t have been out there in the first place. Maybe it was something simple like having spilled mustard on his shirt.
Bush’s botch, lie-filled invasion Silly bashing? Pot meet kettle.
Normal
August 22nd, 2011
11:04 am
Good little liberal
August 22nd, 2011
10:49 am
There is nothing to address in your posts. They are so biased, so filled with dislike of all that you don’t agree with, and so removed from reality, that it makes one wonder how you live with yourself.
…so I make fun, hoping you will get the point. It’s insane, I know, but I really do want you to calm down and see another point of view with out imploding…sorry.
Adam
August 22nd, 2011
11:04 am
Brosephus: Well, you know a vote for Rick Perry is a vote to actually make there be LESS government jobs, and no efforts to grow jobs at all. Only attempts to deregulate existing regulations, which don’t really hamper job growth themselves anyway… well, unless it’s more profitable to build a polluting plant in an impoverished area quickly… hey… this could work if you don’t care about people and only care about profit!
godless heathen
August 22nd, 2011
11:04 am
The reason the President didn’t want to have his picture made on the golf course this weekend was because that wasn’t really him – it was the Presidential double. The real Obama was in Libya organizing the community and leading the march on Tripoli.
Good little liberal
August 22nd, 2011
11:05 am
USinUK
Yes, the people of Libya did it all themselves. They wanted their country to be a war zone and they used rocks and pointed sticks to crush a major military power, no help from outside sources whatsoever.
Hey, maybe radical islam will se yet another leadership vacuum and decide that it’s too much trouble to take over yet another country. Maybe MacDonald’s and Starbucks will be on every corner.
Because as we all know. Radical Islam really loves us.
Paul
August 22nd, 2011
11:05 am
Brosephus
I look at it as a classic example of multiple, seemingly conflicting points on the same topic.
Also that often ‘religion’ or ‘God’ is different from what people say ‘religion’ or ‘God’ is.
Bosch
August 22nd, 2011
11:06 am
Okay, off to the big city of Tucker, Ga!!! Wish me luck!!
AmVet
August 22nd, 2011
11:07 am
Newsflash.
There is no way in (your favorite mythological, torture-filled netherworld here), that Perry wins an election in November 2012.
I understand it is good to have a dream, but this nut is for pipe dreamers…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Hortus_Deliciarum_-_Hell.jpg
WOODSTOCK MIKE
August 22nd, 2011
11:07 am
Maybe one day the Middle East will be filled with peaceful democracies.
They can thank George Bush for that…
stands for decibels
August 22nd, 2011
11:08 am
Malaysia.
yeah. Them too.
Good little liberal
August 22nd, 2011
11:08 am
Normal
So you make fun . . . Got it.
You don’t address the points I offer . . . Got it.
A liberals that thinks he is above addressing the points of another poster and simply makes fun of the other poster. Wow. Say it ain’t so. Because as we all know, we should only address posters who we agree with.
At least you understand your capabilities.
Uncle Jed
August 22nd, 2011
11:08 am
Peadawg
August 22nd, 2011
10:49 am
+++++++++
WELL DONE. (over and out)
Doggone/GA
August 22nd, 2011
11:09 am
“They can thank George Bush for that”
Yep. They’ve decided they would rather do it themselves and have what THEY want…than have US invade them and imposed what WE want.
Don't Forget
August 22nd, 2011
11:09 am
Hey jm, read this.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44217977/ns/politics-the_new_york_times/
DebbieDoRight
August 22nd, 2011
11:10 am
DogGone: I refer you to how we treated Germany and Japan after WW2 as an answer
A – We went to war with Germany & Japan in WWII, we cleaned up both countries because of the lessons we learned after WWI — Germany was left with the burden of high taxes and fines because of their agitating the War because of this factor and a few others, it caused someone like Hitler to rise to power, (Many Germans felt betrayed by their leaders for surrendering to the Allies in 1918 and resented the current German government because it had agreed to the terms of the Treaty of Versailles and because it seemed weak and inept. The country was beset by runaway inflation and high unemployment,).
We did not start a war with Libya and Libya can afford to rebuild their own country.
B – You STILL did not answer my question. Nice dodge though.
USinUK
August 22nd, 2011
11:10 am
“Radical Islam really loves us.”
and so do militant dictators – http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan_Am_Flight_103
Good little liberal
August 22nd, 2011
11:10 am
Bosch
And yet another liberal who makes fun and doesn’t address points made by others.
What we have here is a blog full of people who definitely understand their limitations.
AmVet
August 22nd, 2011
11:10 am
So the Bushbots still contend that the chosen invasion of Iraq was neither botched, nor lie-filled?
Otay.
The facts be damned…
Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)
August 22nd, 2011
11:10 am
Well, we got no business messing with the towelheads in Libya. Unless there’s Yellow Cake Uranium or moving bio labs or Weapons of Mass Destruction. Then we need to gin up a war and kill a few thousand people. And if France is against that we won’t eat French Fries or call them Freedom Fries just to get back at them.
Anyhow, I’m against anything this Obama does. I don’t want us to do anything to help him get reelected. I’d probly feel different if there was a godly Republican in the White House. But for now I say let’s go out of our way to blame Obama. We’ll even blame a thunderstorm on him. I’m waiting for the Republican campaign that claims this Gadaffi was a prince of a fellow, a real saint that we hounded out of office. And I’ll be joining right in.
Have a good day everybody. Soon as Fox News tells me the Truth and what I should be thinking, you’ll be hearing more from me. I got to work right now so I can’t tune in.
USinUK
August 22nd, 2011
11:13 am
Doggone – “than have US invade them and imposed what WE want.”
but I heard they were asking for Ahmed Chalabi by name
Doggone/GA
August 22nd, 2011
11:13 am
“You STILL did not answer my question. Nice dodge though”
I did answer it. You just don’t like the answer. We helped rebuild both Japan and Germany, rather than occupy them as conquered lands – which we and the Allies COULD HAVE done. It set a precdent for assisting countries to find their own way, rather than have a way imposed.
That you can’t correlate that to Libya is your problem, not mine.
Good little liberal
August 22nd, 2011
11:13 am
USinUK
I get the Lockerby thing.
That was bad.
The question is: was it as bad as turning over a stable country to the possibility of the takeover by elements of radical Islam? You being a woman, I would think that you would be horrified at the prospect, but there was always Lockerby.
poison pen
August 22nd, 2011
11:14 am
USinUK
GLL – “Why now? Why overthrown one of the few remaining stable governments?”
you seem to forget that, only recently did we end our embargo of Libya
” and WE didn’t overthrow the government – the people did (we just kept them from being crushed by tanks)”
Nah! Those jets flying overhead were just dropping leaflets and all the Arms that we supplied were for mounting on the wall of their homes.
getalife
August 22nd, 2011
11:14 am
The only reason our friends on the right are against this victory is another huge accomplishment for President Obama.
jm
August 22nd, 2011
11:14 am
Don’t Forget 11:09 – Don’t worry, I’m not advocating for a Rick Perry presidency. But one does have to love the economic framework Texans get to work within, versus, say, Californians.
The fact that liberals want to ignore is that TX is successful. Why? Almost libertarian governmental policies. People should learn from TX, even if they don’t like Perry.
USinUK
August 22nd, 2011
11:14 am
“Yes, the people of Libya did it all themselves.”
oh, and GLL, nowhere have I said that they did it ALL BY THEMSELVES
if not for the US and UK and France, the rebels would have been decimated weeks ago. however, providing air support /= toppling the gummint for them.
Paul
August 22nd, 2011
11:15 am
GLL
“So a strong president breaks the law.
I see.”
You do?
“The Ohio Republican(House Speaker Boehner) told reporters on Wednesday that Obama was “technically” in compliance with the War Powers Act, despite criticism from the left and right over U.S. involvement in the Libya campaign.”
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0611/56018.html
Good little liberal
August 22nd, 2011
11:15 am
AmVet
Oh forget Iraq. How old school. That was before we had a king that could send us to war without the approval of Congress.
We’re a monarch, now.
Paulo977
August 22nd, 2011
11:15 am
Mary E
…and to support Thomas Wolfe
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NzAUEvSuqY&playnext=1&list=PLD6938C0F35C61C5B
poison pen
August 22nd, 2011
11:15 am
getalife
” The only reason our friends on the right are against this victory is another huge accomplishment for President Obama”
I believe it was more of an accomplishment for the French, Read much?
Good little liberal
August 22nd, 2011
11:16 am
Paul
So speaker Bohner os now a reliable source for you.
Interesting.
Brosephus
August 22nd, 2011
11:17 am
jm
From your own link:
But, just in case you’re really worried about it, you can lay your fears to rest because in the last year the Texas public sector has shrunk by 26,000 jobs. In the last 12 months, Texas lost 31,300 federal employees, trimmed 3,800 state jobs, and increased local government jobs by 8,400 jobs.
(To be fair, this was partially driven by the role Texas employees played in the census, which inflated federal job numbers this time last year. Since the census numbers stabilized, federal employment has been at about break-even.)
Take that and look back up on the last decade of job growth. Since December 2000, Texas has added more than a million jobs.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/employment-boom/2011/08/20/gIQA79wBTJ_graphic.html
There was twice as much growth in the public sector as there was in the private sector. When population booms, you have to add teachers, cops, firemen, etc.. To try to say otherwise is BS. Those are still considered government jobs. Realize that TX is also home to several large military installations, NASA, and other governmental agencies, including the Border Patrol. You can try to whitewash it all you wish, but the Feds added thousands of BP Agents along the Southern Border this decade, and TX was a net recipient. The military has expanded as well. TX will lose a large number of those jobs when NASA completes the shutdown of the Space Shuttle program.
Fact is fact, no matter who tries to spin it to say otherwise. Just own up to it that y’all have been cheering for big government all along. If you’re wanting more BP Agents on the Southwest Border, you’re cheering for Big Government. If you want more counter-terrorism in the US, you’re cheering for Big Government. If you want faster air travel w/fewer delays, you’re cheering for Big Government.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
August 22nd, 2011
11:17 am
You being a woman, I would think that you would be horrified at the prospect — because I am truly empathetic to the insights and viewpoints of all women and I can predict how you think?
Is “you’re a woman, you must think” one of the new playing cards for discussions of posts?
AmVet
August 22nd, 2011
11:17 am
The reason Texas is “successful”?
Perry took the $20,000,000,000.00 from Uncles Sugar after………………loudly and constantly denouncing Uncle Sugar as a federally interventionist spendthrift. (STATES RIGHTS!!!)
Similar to the new math we now have the new GOP “accounting”…
getalife
August 22nd, 2011
11:17 am
pp,
Nato is American.
Read much?
Adam
August 22nd, 2011
11:18 am
I admit, seeing the cons do backflips in order to give ANYONE credit except Obama is hilarious.
Now, I think NATO deserves credit, and said so earlier. But it seems no cons can agree on anything EXCEPT that Obama shouldn’t get credit
USinUK
August 22nd, 2011
11:18 am
poison – what part of “(we just kept them from being crushed by tanks)” makes you think that I think they were just dropping pamphlets
(I mean, I know the pen is mightier than the sword and all that, but, tanks beat rocks, paper, AND scissors)
DebbieDoRight
August 22nd, 2011
11:18 am
DebbieDoRight – I’m pretty sure that the “people of Libya” aren’t crazy about their country being a war zone.
They started the war when they demanded Ghaddify’s outster. Did you think G was just going to pack up his toys and leave quietly?
AmVet
August 22nd, 2011
11:19 am
Oh forget Iraq.
I can well understand your sentiment.
Come down to the VA Hospital on Clairmont with me sometime and say that to some of the guys there…
Good little liberal
August 22nd, 2011
11:19 am
Keep Up
When discussing radical Islam, I believe that the treatment of women is a pertinent point. Why would you have a problem with that?
Dave R. - 3k/4k/5k
August 22nd, 2011
11:20 am
“Yep. They’ve decided they would rather do it themselves and have what THEY want…than have US invade them and imposed what WE want.”
As long as doing it themselves didn’t exclude the guns, bombs, missiles, aircraft, pilots, drones and intelligence assets they needed.
Hail those self-sufficient Libyans!
Don't Forget
August 22nd, 2011
11:20 am
jm
If people take a closer look at Texas there’s plenty they won’t like. At the bottom of nearly everything.
getalife
August 22nd, 2011
11:20 am
This is another huge accomplishment for our President so the cons are against it.
More proof our cons are party over country .
I rest this case.
jm
August 22nd, 2011
11:20 am
Bro, depends on whether you’re talking %ages or absolute numbers. Absolute numbers, TX hasn’t added anywhere close to the number of government jobs. TX gov’t jobs have grown from an incredibly small base. And yes, they’ve grown at a higher rate over the last 12 years, but not the last 5. So what’s your point?
The citation above supports the argument that TX government job growth isn’t out of line with its population growth.
md
August 22nd, 2011
11:21 am
Their freedom will last as long as they choose to work together………since they must basically start from scratch, they can survive as long as the masses don’t revolt once they are not being taken care of…………the processes and systems needed to operate a democracy take a while to be implemented and functioning………if corruption steps in to fill the vacuum, it may be an endless cycle of civil war……
Tanisha Green
August 22nd, 2011
11:21 am
I rather suspect we all know what will happen in Libya. There will be talk of freedom, and free elections. The Muslim brotherhood will end up in control and institute an “Islamic republic”, which…as always…will end up meaning “Islamic dictatorship”. Everyone will have to toe the theocratic line, and women will have about as many rights as livestock.
Good little liberal
August 22nd, 2011
11:22 am
Adam
Credit? I thought this was all about the Libyan people? They get the credit, don’t they? We just sort of helped a little. Right?
TGT
August 22nd, 2011
11:23 am
Only just scanned the early comments, but the “If we could do it…..they can too” comment is WAY off. There’s a BIG difference in our revolution and theirs: Christianity.
What is likely to happen in Libya is that they will trade one type of oppression (dictatorship) for another (Islamic rule). There can be no true democracy without freedom of religion, and the Islamists will not stand for it.
jm
August 22nd, 2011
11:23 am
Bro, oh I see. You’re counting Federal government jobs too, over which Rick Perry or anyone else in TX doesn’t have direct control.
You know, people who want to know how efficiently or well run TX is, don’t look at the Federal jobs added, they’re looking at state jobs.
Keep denying to yourself that TX is an economic miracle. The facts support TX’s growth as nothing less than astounding (even if you aren’t a fan of Rick Perry – I’m not). The lessons to be drawn from TX are not about Rick Perry, they’re about how their gov’t works.
http://www.politicalmathblog.com/
Keep Up the Good Fight!
August 22nd, 2011
11:24 am
GLL – you were not discussing a point about Islamic women, you were assuming a position about how “Islam treats women” and telling USinUK that she must agree with your position because she is a woman and with the inference that something would be incorrect with her position is she did not agree as a woman.
But its a nice deflection attempt
Don't Forget
August 22nd, 2011
11:24 am
There was twice as much growth in the public sector as there was in the private sector
Brocephus, you weren’t supposed to look THAT close. Sheesh, don’t go lookin at the education and poverty numbers or you’ll really miss the point of how good Texas is.
Dave R. - 3k/4k/5k
August 22nd, 2011
11:25 am
“Perry took the $20,000,000,000.00 from Uncles Sugar after………………loudly and constantly denouncing Uncle Sugar as a federally interventionist spendthrift. ”
What utter nonsense. Nothing but the lunatic rantings of a liberally-unhinged mind.
The Federal government TAKES from Texas. Why shouldn’t Texas get some of that back?
Normal
August 22nd, 2011
11:25 am
GLL,
Am I to understand then, that you don’t want us to aide Lybia in any way what so ever? No training, no arms, no air support? Just a “you can do it” is all you want us to do?
Do you not want Lybia to have a chance at freedom…and freedom, not democracy, is what they are talking about. Do you not want them to have that?
I read your posts, but I just don’t get them, so you must explain them to me.
What do you want for Lybia? Simple question…now answer it.
jm
August 22nd, 2011
11:25 am
has 100,000 unsustainable public sector jobs that inflate the growth numbers.”
I’m not sure where this one comes from, but the numbers are these (and can be found by selecting government employment from the data wizard at this link http://www.bls.gov/sae/data.htm):
Counting from the beginning of the recession (December 2007) the Texas public sector has grown 3.8%, or a little under 70,000 employees. This is faster than normal employment, but it’s not off the charts.
Given that the Texas economy has grown so much and private sector jobs have grown so much, that doesn’t strike me as an unsustainable growth in the public sector.
But, just in case you’re really worried about it, you can lay your fears to rest because in the last year the Texas public sector has shrunk by 26,000 jobs. In the last 12 months, Texas lost 31,300 federal employees, trimmed 3,800 state jobs, and increased local government jobs by 8,400 jobs.
(To be fair, this was partially driven by the role Texas employees played in the census, which inflated federal job numbers this time last year. Since the census numbers stabilized, federal employment has been at about break-even.)
As you can see, we’re nowhere near the “100,000 unsustainable jobs” number.
http://www.politicalmathblog.com/
Good little liberal
August 22nd, 2011
11:26 am
Tanisha Green
“Everyone will have to toe the theocratic line, and women will have about as many rights as livestock.”
Yea but . . . Lockerby.
Brosephus
August 22nd, 2011
11:26 am
jm
It’s percentages, the very same statistic that others trot out to club baby seals here. My point is that, you and others trot out TX as if it’s some huge accomplishment, but in actually TX runs counter to the Small Government stuff you and others tout. That’s my point. If you’re gonna use TX as a job example, then talk about ALL the jobs, not just the stuff you agree with.
Why is it acceptable for TX to have a growth in public sector jobs in relation with population growth, when the same isn’t acceptable for the fed gov’t over the previous 30 years? The number of fed employees now is almost the exact same as it was under Reagan, however, the population has experienced a major increase since then. Is it not acceptable to have a percentage in job growth that’s in line with population growth there?
The Double Standard is that 800 lb elephant standing on the high wire twirling the clown car right in front of you.
poison pen
August 22nd, 2011
11:27 am
getalife
pp,
” Nato is American.”
Read much?
Getalife, Please google NATO, if you can, then get the facts straight about NATO.
md
August 22nd, 2011
11:27 am
Libya is a tribal nation……….time will tell which one’s prefer to be dominant vs part of a group.
Brosephus
August 22nd, 2011
11:28 am
jm
I mentioned fed jobs, but the WaPo numbers were all state. Just admit it. Your glorious “jobs” example is a direct endorsement of “Big Government”.
DebbieDoRight
August 22nd, 2011
11:28 am
Doggone: I did answer it. You just don’t like the answer.
So when I asked “What is the AMERICAN Way?” and you “answered” for me to refer to Germany and Japan, THAT was what you considered a valid answer? Oookayyy, got it. So a “non-answer” from you is considered a “valid answer that I just didn’t like”; even though you actually didn’t even deign to address the question in the first place. Hmnmmm You might have a career in politics with “answers” like the ones you gave. You should perhaps think about it.
We helped rebuild both Japan and Germany, rather than occupy them as conquered lands – which we and the Allies COULD HAVE done. It set a precdent for assisting countries to find their own way, rather than have a way imposed.
A – We weren’t talking about OCCUPATION of Libya — you asked me why I was opposed to helping to REBUILD Libya — not occupy it.
That you can’t correlate that to Libya is your problem, not mine.
Arrogance, DoggGone is your problem — you hate to admit when you’ve stepped into a hole and your argument/debate has stopped making sense and is starting to sound like a Nikki Minaj rap song. Nothing but jibberish, fast talking, and screeching to a beat.
getalife
August 22nd, 2011
11:29 am
pocs (party over country) will now be used for our cons.
Now, Americans have a choice to make.
To reward pocs for their actions after they lost and end their party or not.
Your call America.
jm
August 22nd, 2011
11:29 am
Bro, seriously, I wonder if you have a reading comprehension issue.
Your own washington post link:
2000-2011, private job growth
TX: +9%
US: -2%
CA: -6%
IL: -7%
NY: -1%
Get it?
TX
Good little liberal
August 22nd, 2011
11:30 am
Normal
If there was an outstanding leader in Libya that could take over power and lead the country to a government by the people, I would say that we had done a good thing, but there isn’t. What we do have there is mob rule and there have been very few instances of mob rule that result in the “people” moving upward.
You question is sort of like planting a bomb in a Honda and then asking me what I would like to do to get that Honda rolling again.
Brosephus
August 22nd, 2011
11:30 am
DF
Not to mention, the “jobs” in TX are low end, low wage, no benefit type jobs. The technical jobs that actually pay something are going to H1B, L1, and other work visa holders, continually stiffing the US worker. That’s EXACTLY what we need to base our country’s economic recovery upon.
Normal
August 22nd, 2011
11:30 am
“Oh forget Iraq. How old school. That was before we had a king that could send us to war without the approval of Congress.”
Selective, isn’t he? Dramitic, is he not? Forgetful too. Lybia is a NATO mission and we are just flying over and maybe…no proof that I’ve seen yet, but maybe we have Spec Ops on the ground, but we do not have regular troops there and we won’t. The public, I included, won’t stand for it.
carlosgvv
August 22nd, 2011
11:30 am
Mikey 10:17
To the best of my knowledge, no one has ever been able to prove or disprove the existance of God. So, what is this “God’s word” you speak of? Is it The Old Testament, The New Testament, The Koran, or scripture from Hinduism? If so, where is your hard scientific proof that it actually is God’s word? Or, is it just blind faith? If so, do you know the difference between faith and fact? Do you even care?
getalife
August 22nd, 2011
11:31 am
pp,
It is Obama’s Bosnia so move on.
When pocs lose, America wins.
USA!
USA!
USA!
md
August 22nd, 2011
11:32 am
NATO? 99.9999999% US………..the miniscule remainder……SOME of the others.
May as well be our military……..”the”y jump in and out when they so choose…………
jm
August 22nd, 2011
11:32 am
Bro 11:30 – stop inhaling what MSNBC is selling. that argument is baseless as the link points out.
Lots of high end well paying jobs have been added in TX. Denial denial denial.
http://www.politicalmathblog.com/
Paul
August 22nd, 2011
11:33 am
GLL
“So speaker Bohner os now a reliable source for you.
Interesting.”
Nice sliiiiiide on whether or not Pres Obama was or was not breaking the law.
I’ll take Sprk Boehner’s assertion and backup over your assertion with no backup.
Good little liberal
August 22nd, 2011
11:34 am
Normal
So just fighter jets, bombers, European Air Bases and US aircraft carriers, 2,000 lb bombs and special ops mean that we aren’t involved.
Got it.
Normal
August 22nd, 2011
11:34 am
GLL,
We haven’t done a “good thing” or anything there except aide NATO. Let Lybia choose their own leaders and learn to like it if it’s not our way.
America is NOT the “Kingdom of God”, after all.
willie lynch
August 22nd, 2011
11:34 am
What happens when the shoe is on the other foot?
Normal
August 22nd, 2011
11:35 am
Good little liberal
August 22nd, 2011
11:34 am
Yeah GLL, let’s do the twist.
jm
August 22nd, 2011
11:36 am
Since the recession started hourly wages in Texas have increased at a 6th fastest pace in the nation.
As a side note, the only blue state that has faster growing wages is Hawaii. Just thought I’d get that jab in since so many people have been making snarky “Yeah, I could get a job in Texas is I wanted to flip burgers!” comments at me on Twitter.
http://www.politicalmathblog.com/
Brosephus
August 22nd, 2011
11:36 am
jm
From my link
Government job growth
TX: 19%
FL: 10%
CA: 2%
IL: 1%
NY: 1%
US: 6%
I get TX far better than you appear to. Imagine the anti- big government ideologically driven, conservative led governments of TX and FL have added more government jobs in the past decade than the big-government loving liberal states of CA, IL, and NY.
Yep! Texas is a big example of job creation.
Even TX’s nonfarm job growth wasn’t at the same pace of it’s government growth.
jm
August 22nd, 2011
11:36 am
Liberals lie, the economy and jobs die.
Good little liberal
August 22nd, 2011
11:37 am
Paul
WASHINGTON • The House of Representatives sent President Barack Obama a strong bipartisan message Friday that it is frustrated and impatient with the U.S. military mission in Libya.
The House voted 295-123 to deny congressional consent for extending the 3-month-old effort for a year, a clear rebuke to Obama. But the House would not take the extra step of denying funding for the mission.
Read more: http://www.stltoday.com/news/national/article_bdcbd32e-07bf-5b20-a913-b6248ed411aa.html#ixzz1Vlx0i9C4
Libyan involvement violates War Powers Resolution
Posted: Wednesday, June 22, 2011 10:45 am | Updated: 11:08 am, Wed Jun 22, 2011.
By Sheldon Richman –
President Obama demonstrates his utter contempt for the American people – and the law – when he says the War Powers Resolution does not apply to his intervention in Libya because, as the White House put it, “U.S. operations do not involve sustained fighting or active exchanges of fire with hostile forces, nor do they involve U.S. ground troops.”
There are dozens of these stories.
Dave R. - 3k/4k/5k
August 22nd, 2011
11:38 am
“My point is that, you and others trot out TX as if it’s some huge accomplishment, but in actually TX runs counter to the Small Government stuff you and others tout.”
No, Brosephus, it isn’t.
You mention teachers, fire fighters and police as being added since population growth has occurred. Since the state is mandated to provide such (and since public safety is a valid constitutional reason for government), these positions are in keeping with a valid role for LIMITED government, NOT small government.
If he asked for more Border Patrol, then you can ding him on that.
But this other stuff is just so much anti-Tea Party claptrap that it’s beginning to become ludicrous.
Good little liberal
August 22nd, 2011
11:38 am
Normal
So we are not the kingdom of God, but we get to decide that the Libyan leader was the wrong guy.
Got it.