The 2012 battlefield begins to take form

Political analyst Charlie Cook, at National Journal, sets out the dynamics of the 2012 presidential election:

“The 2012 presidential election is shaping up to be one of oddest in memory and potentially far more dramatic than one might guess. Obviously, the general election is still more than 14 months away — and, in politics, and for that matter anything involving human behavior, predictions are dangerous. But the dynamics that seem to be emerging are fascinating.

On one hand, we have an incumbent president with dismally low job-approval ratings; his signature legislative accomplishment of health care reform remains very unpopular, and he is presiding over an enormously weak and worsening economy. This is a combination sufficiently bad to prevent any president’s reelection.

On the other hand, we have an opposing party whose center of gravity and energy levels have swung so far to one side of the ideological spectrum as to have been designed to alienate the independent and swing voters, the people who will effectively decide this presidential election. To put it more simply, this election is the Republican Party’s to lose, and yet, they may pull it off, snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.”

Judging from his recent rhetoric, President Obama shares Cook’s assessment. He seems to have abandoned efforts to get the Republicans to say yes to various proposals, a hope that was probably vain in the first place. Instead, he’s going to force them to say no, repeatedly, to more popular proposals and hope that in the process they confirm public fears that they have become extreme and uncompromising.

– Jay Bookman

693 comments Add your comment

JOE C00L

August 19th, 2011
9:47 am

Adam

August 19th, 2011
9:49 am

Instead, he’s going to force them to say no, repeatedly, to more popular proposals

It’s going to work too, as long as it keeps getting publicized.

JOE C00L

August 19th, 2011
9:50 am

The Party of NO?……say it ain’t so.

getalife

August 19th, 2011
9:51 am

Four more years.

The gop treason failed.

USinUK

August 19th, 2011
9:52 am

“On the other hand, we have an opposing party whose center of gravity and energy levels have swung so far to one side of the ideological spectrum as to have been designed to alienate the independent and swing voters, the people who will effectively decide this presidential election.”

:lol:

it was all a cunning plan by the Democrats!!!

Adam

August 19th, 2011
9:54 am

Interesting though. What if the GOP starts saying yes (or just saying yes to yes)? Can they afford to? Will it win them more independent votes? Or have they locked themselves in a prison of their own making?

Bosch

August 19th, 2011
9:55 am

USinUK,

I always said that about Al Gore, it really was his election to lose, and he managed to do it like so many Democrats have done in the past.

And yes, I have recovered. Going on our topic downstairs, I do believe that whatever created us, they put some kind of instinct in us that children are cute so we don’t kill them when they do stupid stuff, same for puppies.

Left wing management

August 19th, 2011
9:55 am

This is the pathetic state of politics in a nation with a cynical, corrupt ruling class.

Joe the Plutocrat and closet honey badger

August 19th, 2011
9:55 am

what is the over/under on some GOP wag connecting Bank of America’s announced lay-offs to Obama? Obama is doing what he was put in office to do; spout left of center (but ever the centrist) nonsense; while furthering the oligarch agenda (perpetual war, laizzes faire toward Wall Street, etc.). what I find amusing is how all politicians spout their party lines, but watch how the grovel to the overlords (Big Bank, Big D, Big Ins.). they know where their bread is buttered (Wall Street/K Street, not Main Street)

Bosch

August 19th, 2011
9:57 am

But Adam! Haven’t you heard? They have been mandated by God (or something) to stop the horrible socialist agenda that is ruining our country. The last election done PROOOOOOVED that, don’t cha know?

Even though nothing has actually changed, so one could argue that their agenda was just as “socialist” or some kind of garbly goo.

Uncle Jed

August 19th, 2011
9:58 am

Charlie Cook; National Journal. Are you serious or still half asleep this morning?

Prior to founding his newsletter in 1984, Cook worked on Capitol Hill for then-Senator J. Bennett Johnston, Jr., a Democrat from Shreveport who served from 1972-1997. Cook also worked for the Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee, and the Democratic Policy Committee.

As some of the regulars have written as of late: Discredited.

Obama loses libs, get used to it.

Adam

August 19th, 2011
9:58 am

Bosch: Republicans win an election = MANDATE
Democrats win an election = EVILLLLLL

USinUK

August 19th, 2011
9:59 am

Bosch – speaking of cute children – my friend frequently posts on FB about what his 2- and 4-year old daughters say – this one was a classic:

“Morgan refers to both front and back “areas” as one’s “butt.” While looking at a fridge magnet depicting Michelangelo’s David, she observed with a giggle: “Hey, he has a nose on his butt.” Surely, an unprecedented critique of the masterpiece…”

I thought that perfectly illustrated your point.

and I half-agree with your assessment of Al Gore – yes, it was *mostly* his to lose – with the exception of being tarred by the Clinton brush. (which is why I laugh until I cry everytime I hear a GOPper say how, OH HOW! they wish Hillary had been elected … she would be soooooo preferable to Obama … blahblahbalh … because they evidently don’t recall how they castigated every. flipping. thing. they both did)

Normal

August 19th, 2011
10:00 am

“…we have an incumbent president with dismally low job-approval ratings; his signature legislative accomplishment of health care reform remains very unpopular, and he is presiding over an enormously weak and worsening economy. This is a combination sufficiently bad to prevent any president’s reelection…”

But then I saw this and decided to vote for him anyway…

http://news.icanhascheezburger.com/2011/08/18/political-pictures-this-acid-is-great/

:D

Stonethrower

August 19th, 2011
10:00 am

The experiment is a failure. Next election, the current white house resident will get less than 41% of the majority population vote and the country can then go back to being rightfully led. You will then find compromise and the economy will get back on track.

Adam

August 19th, 2011
10:00 am

Uncle Jed: Yep, a political analyst who is Democrat leaning is “discredited.” i wonder if you would apply that to a Republican Analyst? I sure don’t. They are analysts.

Finn McCool

August 19th, 2011
10:00 am

Conservanuts are running out of time to find a competitive candidate.

Sad state of affairs, those Republicans. Can’t govern, can’t start anything except for wars, have no ideas or answers to anything (oh, except cut taxes!) Hapless.

USinUK

August 19th, 2011
10:01 am

“The last election done PROOOOOOVED that, don’t cha know?”

(pay no attention to Wisconsin … keep walking … nothing to see there)

Mr Right

August 19th, 2011
10:01 am

Thank God for Repubs who said no! Somebody needs to save us!

Joe the Plutocrat and closet honey badger

August 19th, 2011
10:01 am

Bosch, I think it’s more an instict of MY child is cute. we really don’t have a problem killing other peoples’ children (especially if they live in places with a lot of oil). I believe there was a study done a few years back on how/why children (at birth) tend to resemble the father. seems male homosapiens are kinda predisposed to be “objectivist” (I always felt Ayn Rand was pissed she didn’t have a c**k), but if they perceived a connection, they were less likely to abandon or kill their own children in a pinch. it’s kinda become the model for political discourse; “hey, you look, think, act, like me; so vote for me’).

Uncle Jed

August 19th, 2011
10:01 am

Oh, BTW- I do agree that it is the Republicans race to lose.

Adam

August 19th, 2011
10:02 am

Stonethrower: Next election, the current white house resident will get less than 41% of the majority population vote

I doubt that.

You will then find compromise and the economy will get back on track

yeah right. Instead you’ll get a MANDATE to do whatever they want.

getalife

August 19th, 2011
10:02 am

We need a new congress that is not treasonous.

Not that complicated people.

Peadawg

August 19th, 2011
10:03 am

“Conservanuts are running out of time to find a competitive candidate.

Sad state of affairs”

Agreed. Now we’re probably stuck w/ Bush-Lite for 4 more years. Sad state of affairs indeed.

Joe the Plutocrat and closet honey badger

August 19th, 2011
10:03 am

Left wing… you’re getting close. whom do you think “owns” or directs the ruling class? that is to say; “corruption” is a team sport. politicians cannot be “corrupt” on their own, and John Q. Public certainly isn’t a corrupting force.

Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)

August 19th, 2011
10:03 am

Well, it’s dead certain all those independent voters will go for a canadate that wants to get rid of Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid. And get rid of taxes for big corps. and rich people. And maybe shift the taxes to poor people and middle income folks. I don’t see nothing strange about that. Why, they’ll walk up and push the buttom for the GOP in a New York minute.

Perry-Bachmann in 2012. You’ll have all the McDonald’s jobs you can handle and if you don’t you can suck on a foot-long hot dog. And $2 gas to boot.

Have a good Friday everybody. I’m out here hauling and lugging to get you ready for swapping weird music tonight. But if Bookman’s going to ban everybody that gets a little sloshed and calls people names or maybe borrows somebody else’s handle, I don’t know why I bother. He takes all the fun out of blogging.

Uncle Jed

August 19th, 2011
10:03 am

Adam

August 19th, 2011
10:00 am
++++++++++++++

I guess I failed to make my sarcasm obvious enough while using the left’s playbook. It must be a learning curve thing.

Common Sense

August 19th, 2011
10:05 am

“The 2012 battlefield begins to take form”

Now if Palin had said that, we would have you telling us to calm down the violent rhetoric.

Such hypocrisy.

Adam

August 19th, 2011
10:05 am

Uncle Jed: Fair enough

jm

August 19th, 2011
10:05 am

ty webb

August 19th, 2011
10:06 am

ah yes, the “extreme and umcompromising” meme…and just when I was getting used to the “inherited” meme…which of course followed the “racist” meme…don’t really think any of it is going to “stick to the wall”…

Aquagirl

August 19th, 2011
10:06 am

those Republicans. Can’t govern, can’t start anything except for wars, have no ideas or answers to anything

And when you ask them about their anti-gay nuttery, they run away and then claim they were escaping “sexual harassment.”

Common Sense

August 19th, 2011
10:07 am

I also remember last Spring when Bookman pointed to the DOW above 12,000 as evidence of the positive job Obama was doing with the economy.

So now as we are below 11,000, what’s the verdict now?

Adam

August 19th, 2011
10:07 am

ty webb: because (paraphrasing) “Obama benefited from government programs because he was an African American male, so that’s why he likes government so much” isn’t racist at all.

Uncle Jed

August 19th, 2011
10:07 am

Nice piece of original work this morning, Jay. ;-)

(believe me, I know, as my many cut ‘n paste posts attest)

getalife

August 19th, 2011
10:10 am

no common sense,

The wealthy are still doing better than ever.

The gop fight to make sure of this fact.

When will you cons stop coddling billionaires and demand your treasonous party to govern all the American people and not just the top 2%?

Joe the Plutocrat and closet honey badger

August 19th, 2011
10:10 am

RC, lo siento Amigo (indigenous accent, not Hispanic). I drank a Mexican beer last night. we need to secure our borders so Mexican beers can’t sneak over here and steal jobs from American beers (like Budweiser).

Bosch

August 19th, 2011
10:10 am

“and the country can then go back to being rightfully led”

:shock:

I think Obama won the election fair and square, so we are now “rightfully” led by the man who won.

Is that like saying “I WANT MY COUNTRY BACK”? Don’t get me started on what I truly think THAT means.

Bosch

August 19th, 2011
10:11 am

Oh and Joe honey badger,

Yes, I think you are correct. (@ 10:01)

Bosch

August 19th, 2011
10:11 am

“we need to secure our borders so Mexican beers can’t sneak over here and steal jobs from American beers (like Budweiser)”

:lol:

Yes, Joe, we do.

Common Sense

August 19th, 2011
10:12 am

No Getalife, you are wrong. There are fewer rich in every category above the $200k income level.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424053111903480904576512501087811480.html?mod=WSJ_hp_mostpop_emailed

If you were right, there would be more.

Isn’t it time you begin to question the rhetoric you repeat for accuracy?

Bosch

August 19th, 2011
10:12 am

“Nice piece of original work this morning, Jay.”

Isn’t Jay on vacay this week? I think it’s cool that he even gives new sheets. I know I wouldn’t if I were in his shoes.

Bosch

August 19th, 2011
10:13 am

CS,

Yeah, cause less percentage of people own more of the money.

Duh.

Uncle Jed

August 19th, 2011
10:14 am

Remember children, especially little Paulie, keep the blindfold tightly tied as you approach the pinata. We must all play the game fairly here at Jay’s party ;-)

Cake and ice cream later.

getalife

August 19th, 2011
10:14 am

no common sense,

It is the same billionaires making all the money stupid.

ty webb

August 19th, 2011
10:15 am

adam,
you really should read the whole transcript of what Coburn said. If you desire please check out this link. It is from a rather liberal columnist with the WAPO…oh, and though I may be “d*ck”, I never said anything about being a “christian”…good luck with that gunshot wound.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/post/what-coburn-really-said-about-obama-race-and-dependency/2011/03/03/gIQAdBywNJ_blog.html

Corey

August 19th, 2011
10:15 am

Americans want to buy and sell stuff, lots of stuff. That’s our sole existence. Sure there is that freedom thingy, but buying and selling stuff is what drives us. We want to be able to buy and sell stuff like we did back in the nineties, and we don’t care why we are not able. We want one man to fix it now damnt. Wha! Wha! Wha!

Joe

August 19th, 2011
10:16 am

Kind of like CUT, Cap, and Balance that the American people support. Obama being the far left loon he is can’t possibly come up with a new plan that don’t involve increaseing taxes and spending more money we don’t have. How could that be popular????

Uncle Jed

August 19th, 2011
10:16 am

Isn’t Jay on vacay this week?
++++++++++++++++++++++

I assumed, perhaps incorrectly, that he was here. To me, vacation means time away from work. I figured the AJC could somehow cover his blog. My apologies if I was too harsh.

Common Sense

August 19th, 2011
10:16 am

Bosch,

Wrong again. Did you read the article?

Well, if equality of income is the priority, liberals should be thrilled with the last four years. The recession and weak recovery have been income levelers. Those who make more than $200,000 captured one-quarter of the $7.6 trillion in total income in 2009. In 2007 the over-$200,000 crowd had one-third of reported U.S. taxable income. Those with incomes above $1 million earned 9.5% of total income in 2009, down from 16.1% in 2007.

Left wing management

August 19th, 2011
10:17 am

Uncle Jed: “Obama loses libs, get used to it.”

You’re calling Charlie Cook a lib?

Joe the Plutocrat: “Left wing… you’re getting close. whom do you think “owns” or directs the ruling class? that is to say; “corruption” is a team sport. politicians cannot be “corrupt” on their own, and John Q. Public certainly isn’t a corrupting force.”

Well there are different degrees of insulation of the people from the corruption of the ruling class. In our case the corruption has to do with a post war model of US-led world capitalism that has run its course and a political system – both here and Europe – that is ossified and where the technocratic elite has no answers but greater austerity and belt tightening, which in time will only usher in more London-style unrest. Perhaps no one better exemplifies this utter corruption of our technocratic elite than Barack Obama and Mitt Romney, just flip sides of the same coin.

Doggone/GA

August 19th, 2011
10:17 am

In the Vent today:

“Perry/Palin in 2012. If things don’t go well once they’re in office, Perry can secede and Palin can quit”

Schrodinger's cat

August 19th, 2011
10:17 am

Odrama has already lost the independents…..

Bruno

August 19th, 2011
10:17 am

From below:

But to proffer Adam & Eve as an equivalent alternative explanation to Darwin and 150+ years of enlightenment is preposterous.

AmVet–You’re falling into the old “false dichotomy” of EITHER religion OR Science. All I’m trying to do here is to demonstrate that neither one has a reasonable explanation of “ex nihilo”.

but I find it difficult to believe that a “creator” who intelligently designed the “big bang”,

Who said anything about a “Creator” ?? You won’t find any such nonsense in any of my posts, unless used as an allegorical explanation.

Still no concept of what is actually going on. SCIENCE is not some sort of mirror image or antithesis to religion. At least it doesn’t attempt to explain things without evidence, something that religious myths do on a regular basis.

Obviously you haven’t dug deep enough into Big Bang Theory or Evolution, because that’s basically what both of those theories do. Then only thing we truly know is that we’re here, and that things do indeed change over time. The proposed mechanism of Evolutionary change, random genetic mutation, is completely unproven.

um. no. the big bang acknowledges that there were actually things here (gasses and matter and such) – that’s what caused the a’splosion

Sorry, hon. Big Bang supposes that there was an amorphous ball of material unlike any type of matter which exists today somehow magically appeared out of nowhere. No gases, no atoms, no atomic particles or even quarks. You might want to become more familiar with the theories before you make such statements. you can learn about it all in Roger Penrose’s book, “The Road to Reality”.

Joe the Plutocrat and closet honey badger

August 19th, 2011
10:17 am

Common Sense, please change your name. I cannot speak for JB, but most left of center folks offered that example in response to the neo-con charge that Obama is bad for the economy. As I noted earlier this week; even at 10,5000, the DOW is still 30% higher than when Obama was sworn in. Anyone with any…. ahem, common sense; know the 5% drops here and there are how the hedge fund managers siphon $$$ from individual investors. it’s called “shorting” stocks. Anyone who ties the POTUS to the stock market is a rube – in fact it’s the other way around; Obama doesn’t “own” the Dow, the Dow (Wall Street) owns him. Now, if you want to throw rocks at him for AfPak, Iraq, GITMO; I have a huge rock pile in my backyard

AmVet

August 19th, 2011
10:17 am

“…and the country can then go back to being rightfully led.”

“Thank God for Repubs who said no! Somebody needs to save us!”

Though both are quite succinct, you Party First, God Second, America Somewhere Down the List boys need to remember three little words done three times – Bring back Bush! Bring back Bush! Bring back Bush! (The alliteration makes it easy.)

You’d vote him back in in a NY second and it is what you want, isn’t it?

So you’ll settle for the next best thing, one of these clowns who are George repackaged to fool you ever dupable Republirubes into thinking they are fundamentally (get it?) not the same guy…

No sale.

Bosch

August 19th, 2011
10:18 am

Jed,

I think that’s what he wrote last week….but what do I know anyway, I’m really just an insignificant small piece of carbon on this island planet we call home.

Bruno

August 19th, 2011
10:18 am

Bruno– As important as it is to know what we know, it’s even more important to recognize that which we DON’T know.

Adam– And THAT line proves you don’t knwo what science is.

Adam–If you wish to get into a Scientific pissing contest, be my guest. Your ignorant statement that knowing what we DON’T know is unimportant puts you at a big disadvantage right out of the gate. In case you don’t have the math and science training to realize it, there are many things which are simply Unknowable, i.e. Undecidable Propositions. And it’s not a matter of simply not having enough time or information.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_Formally_Undecidable_Propositions_of_Principia_Mathematica_and_Related_Systems

You may also wish to become familiar with Heisenberg’s Uncertainty Principle before you embarrass yourself further.

http://www.aip.org/history/heisenberg/p08.htm

stands for decibels

August 19th, 2011
10:18 am

Look, I acknowledge that a 40% Gallup approval rating is not where Team Obama wants to be. I acknowledge that this is worthy of note by well connected/paid pundits like Mr. Cook, quoted above. Really I do.

However, when he says, as do any number of well connected/paid pundits, these days:

we have an incumbent president with dismally low job-approval ratings

What were Reagan’s considered to be, at this point in his first term, when they were a whopping 43%? merely “crappily low job-approval ratings?”

http://www.gallup.com/poll/124922/Presidential-Approval-Center.aspx

I was around then, a vaguely sentient young adult, and not following politics quite so closely, but I’m pretty damn sure that the well-connected/paid punditry class weren’t referring to Reagan’s numbers thus. I’m pretty sure they didn’t think they were all that important 14 months out, that there was plenty of time for the narrative to change.

/drive-by

Talking Head

August 19th, 2011
10:19 am

“On the other hand, we have an opposing party whose center of gravity and energy levels have swung so far to one side of the ideological spectrum as to have been designed to alienate the independent and swing voters, the people who will effectively decide this presidential election.”

Interesting, those same independent and swing voters showed up in masses in 2010 to vote for that same party who apparently is trying to “alienate” them.

Aquagirl

August 19th, 2011
10:19 am

Now if Palin had said that, we would have you telling us to calm down the violent rhetoric. Such hypocrisy.

Jay’s idea of a dream vacation isn’t shooting wolves from a helicopter.

Bruno

August 19th, 2011
10:20 am

The world is just filled with unknown unknowns.

Taxpayer–That is likely the most intelligent thing you’ve ever said on the blog. Good job.

Where it gets really murky is when one starts thinking about what “knowledge” is anyway. Because our brains are constructed with neurons, we are limited to “knowing” things which lend themselves to binary, neuronal representation. Which is why the wave/particle duality of photons will likely forever escape human understanding. Ditto for “ex nihilo”. Our brains are limited to constructing models of the world, but at no point does a model = the real thing.

And that, my friends, is your REAL SCIENCE lesson for the day. ;-)

TaxPayer

August 19th, 2011
10:21 am

Wait a moment now. You say that President Obama is now working to make the Republicans just say no! Given how difficult that task is, I wonder why he is not taking more vacations. He could just record a list of key words that are announced to the public on some regular interval and then kick back and enjoy the show:

Debt! — NO!

Jobs! — NO!

Taxes! — NO!

Regulations! — NO!

Don't Tread

August 19th, 2011
10:22 am

“his signature legislative accomplishment of health care reform remains very unpopular”

…probably because it’s very unconstitutional. Kyle’s link to the 11th CC ruling was spot on.

“he is presiding over an enormously weak and worsening economy”

Wonder why that is? Are the planets not lined up properly? (Must be global warming.) Oh, I forgot, it’s Bush’s fault. Or was that the Tea Party? Oh, wait…it’s the evil, greedy corporations and their private jets! And the evil, greedy rich people hoarding their money!

Couldn’t be HIS OWN policy decisions, could it? (After all “he won”.)

Uncle Jed

August 19th, 2011
10:23 am

Bosch

August 19th, 2011
10:18 am
+++++++++++

Doesn’t really matter, but I think Cook’s piece is dated August 19.

Appointment here…later

Stonethrower

August 19th, 2011
10:23 am

It’s a fact the only reason President Carter was elected was due to the perceived corruption of the GOP under President Nixon’s leadership. President Ford didn’t have a snowballs chance is hell of winning the election. The same can be said of President Obama. Due to the incompetence of President Bush, McCain/Palin was dead in the water. Like I stated above, the experiment failed. Put in all in the history books that we met our “quota” when we put President Obama in the white house. It is again time to take our country back to rightful leadership.

Schrodinger's cat

August 19th, 2011
10:23 am

Bruno – As our friend Heisenberg would say …You can never know anything with complete certainty

Bruno

August 19th, 2011
10:24 am

To put it more simply, this election is the Republican Party’s to lose, and yet, they may pull it off, snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.”

I’ll go on record as agreeing with Charlie Cook as well.

He seems to have abandoned efforts to get the Republicans to say yes to various proposals, a hope that was probably vain in the first place. Instead, he’s going to force them to say no, repeatedly, to more popular proposals and hope that in the process they confirm public fears that they have become extreme and uncompromising.

Which only proves that Obama is a political slimeball who puts his own political future above the best interests of the country.

Keep Up the Good Fight!

August 19th, 2011
10:24 am

Common Sense

August 19th, 2011
10:24 am

Joe the Plutocrat,

And what was the DOW when it was Obama won the nomination and American began planning for an Obama Presidency? To assume that the Obama affect only starts on the day he was sworn in is quite convenient.

if Obama was a success, we would not be talking about 10.1 % unemployment in Atlanta would we? Or record deficits.

You can try to redefine failure to something more palatable. But it’s still failure.

Bosch

August 19th, 2011
10:25 am

Bruno,

“And that, my friends, is your REAL SCIENCE lesson for the day”

No offense cause I think you’re a swell guy and all, but it’s always been my opinion, (and again, who am I but an insignificant blob of gases, trying to eek out a living on our mutually shared island home called Earth) that one of the most dick moves a blogger can do on the board here is to write that you are “teaching” us or “educating” us on anything.

Just my $.02.

Thomas

August 19th, 2011
10:25 am

I have to hand it to the loyalty of the far left. They are like Cubs fans.

In all seriousness blaming life on the tea party and calling repubs treasonous is at best childish. Grow the f up and take responsibility. Just like 8 years under W- your leadership is simply not there.

pat

August 19th, 2011
10:25 am

The party of blame everybody else against the party of no…..

This situation reminds me of ‘04, where Kerry was such a misserable unlikable sot that he could not beat an unpopular president.

It remains to be seen but the reps may rise from the ashes here. Obama is not likely to have much in his corner, except of course, blame.

Blame Bush, blame congress, blame S&P…. He needs to step up and take some responsibility. I mean, is he in charge or not? When you blaming others all the time, it leads one to believe that ‘others’ are actually in charge.

Mystified

August 19th, 2011
10:26 am

I’m don’t think I agree with this assessment. If the right wing were pushing a social agenda then they would absolutely lose the middle. In this race, the agenda is all about fiscal responsibility. Saying no to leftist spending programs is not going to alienate the middle who agree with the right on most fiscal policy.

I hope he does throw bill after bill of his answers to our problems at congress and I hope it is well publicized. What we will probably see is more of what we have seen in the last 3 years and if any alienation occurs; it will be toward the leftists agenda.

AmVet

August 19th, 2011
10:27 am

“AmVet–You’re falling into the old “false dichotomy” of EITHER religion OR Science.”

Not so and have written as much.

I do not hold that science has all of the answers, but obviously they have some. Medicine, agriculture, architecture and innumerable other advances in mankind’s evolution are based on which one of those two? Religion may provide the inspiration, but that is where it ends.

Notwithstanding the Jesuits and Thomas Assisi among others, ask Galileo, Magellan and countless other men of science about how supportive organized religion has been to the growing knowledge of mankind.

That line in that Tim Minchin monologue said it all.

Organized religion, aka mythology, with it’s made up heavens, hells, saviors and angry gods is, in this context, is horrifically insufficient.

And as noted above, why Jesus? Why not Aphrodite. At least she was hot.

It all comes down to credibility for me…

getalife

August 19th, 2011
10:27 am

More denial using a murdoch rag.

Same ole con crap.

Anyhoo, vote out the tea party and get a congress that works to move forward.

You cons know you can’t beat the President so join him and stop the treason.

You are going to lose anyway.

Bosch

August 19th, 2011
10:28 am

“It is again time to take our country back to rightful leadership”

So Stonethrower, do you feel that Obama is not the rightful leader of this country?

Bosch

August 19th, 2011
10:29 am

“and calling repubs treasonous”

Um, Thomas, you have that backwards.

Bruno

August 19th, 2011
10:30 am

And also for the record, I think Jay showed his true character by banning Thulsa Doom the other night for a few lousy drunken posts. There’s nothing worse in Jay’s world than to be shown up, which TD does on a regular basis using facts and well-constructed arguments. If simply insulting someone was a legitimate basis for banning, then stands, Keep, Aquagirl and a few others would have been out of here a long time ago. In fact, in light of Jay’s recent rash of childish insults, he would have to ban himself as well.

I say “Free TD”!! ;-)

Dirty Dawg

August 19th, 2011
10:30 am

RR and his CIA-crony(ies) had their plan to keep Jimmy Carter from pulling an ‘October Surprise’ back in ‘80…namely they conspired with the Iranians to keep the hostages in return for the promise of arms, ammo and replacement parts for all that war stuff we had given the Shah over the years – and it worked.

Now we have a Republican Party that will do, and has done, everything imaginable to ‘tank’ the country’s economy and keep it down – preventing the current President from doing anything that might alleviate the pain and suffering, produce jobs and, in general, get us turned around…I think they ought to name it ‘The 2011/12 Surprise’, in that if Republicans allow anything positive to happen, it’ll be a surprise to everybody – the cretins.

md

August 19th, 2011
10:31 am

“Republicans win an election = MANDATE
Democrats win an election = EVILLLLLL”

In the real world…….both = MANDATE………but this plays well for the side choosers………

pat

August 19th, 2011
10:31 am

BTW, I have no issue saying ‘no’ since most of the democratic proposals have been disasterous. What are they going to say ‘yes’ to, mor debt? More entitlements? More government encroachment?

Besides the democrats had a super majority for 2 years and managed to only make things drastacally worse.
So the democrat recent track record BLOWS! and BLOWS mightily. You can blame everybody else if you want, but the democrats did a fine job of f’ing up as much as possible in 2 years.
Thank God somebody was able to say ‘NO’ from time to time.

Peadawg

August 19th, 2011
10:32 am

“So Stonethrower, do you feel that Obama is not the rightful leader of this country?”

He was voted in on a basis of blatant lies, nice suits, and nice speeches. Change? I’m still waiting for it. I still find it funny that people used the word “McSame” to describe McCain…little did they know.

Nonetheless he was voted in so we have to live with it.

Let’s hope people make up for their mistakes in 2012.

Joe the Plutocrat and closet honey badger

August 19th, 2011
10:33 am

Stonethrower, I agree with some of your screed, as far as the Carter/Obama similarities; but let’s be honest; it wasn’t “perceived corruption” that took down Nixon, it was pretty much just plain old corruption. well, ALL POTUSs are corrupt, but Nixon got caught AND then got caught covering it up – and in the irony of ironies; he used corrupt practices to attempt to cover-up his corrupt behavior. he should have known that only in credit default swaps is a liability and asset. but I digress. Obama’s election was not an “experiment” or “quota” driven milestone for America; as has been demonstrated (by his performance) he was essentially a re-branding of (incompetent) Bush, which given the size and scope of Bush’s failure; the Dems could have nominated Charles Manson. and why do you think Palin was added to the GOP ticket? she was disposable (as was McCain). she was a test balloon; she was a polling instrument, with the added bonus of being able to ’snipe’ at Obama on a national level (from ‘09-’12) while the GOP architects like Rove “design” their ideal candidate – that said, I think most would agree, Obama is kinda making it easy; ergo, just like Obama benefited from Bush’s failures, it it very likely, Perry will benefit from Obama’s faux pas – who is Gary Johnson?

Bosch

August 19th, 2011
10:33 am

“There’s nothing worse in Jay’s world than to be shown up, which TD does on a regular basis using facts and well-constructed arguments.”

The other thing that is, to me, one of the most dick things you can do here, is to assume you know what others think or believe, and also assume that someone ever “one-ups” anyone.

AmVet

August 19th, 2011
10:34 am

“It’s a fact the only reason President Carter was elected…”

Fail.

The words facts and only are not some malleable nonsense unless one relies upon the Republican Dictionary of Made Up Definitions.

Cubs fans?

Well, in that analogy, the ever-conned Bushbots are the teachers involved in the APS scandal.

They keep giving their guys glorious grades, when in reality they failed.

getalife

August 19th, 2011
10:35 am

perry said it.

Yes, holding our economy hostage to stop our recovery for this election is treasonous.

Demanding a birth certificate for our President is treasonous.

Collapsing the global economy then fighting not to fix it is treasonous.

Most of the gop actions since they lost are treasonous.

It is the cold hard truth.

jm

August 19th, 2011
10:35 am

how many calories are in a bagel vs a doughnut?

important question…

kayaker 71

August 19th, 2011
10:35 am

I am sure that all of you libs are just ecstatic about what Bozo has accomplished over the last two and a half years and I am sure also that you are happy that you voted for this insane loser. Why not admit it….. you made a mistake of gigantic proportions and admitting it is really hard. Leaving those Obama 08 bumper stickers on will only magnify the mistake and make you look even more inept that you appear. I still cannot see how a bunch of seemingly intelligent people could f— up so badly.

Peadawg

August 19th, 2011
10:36 am

http://www.ajc.com/news/nation-world/are-military-pensions-too-1122518.html

So this what people have in mind when it comes to defense cuts? Some people have no problem continuing the handouts and entitlements to the moochers who do nothing for this country, but want to cut benefits for people who defend this country? Sick. Absolutely sick.

Thomas

August 19th, 2011
10:36 am

again grow up and quit looking to DC as a path to your salvation or demise. the far left and the far right are 100%, exactly the same- blindly loyal extemist.

you are being limbaugh with childish “bushbots” what are you 7 years old?

Bosch

August 19th, 2011
10:37 am

“He was voted in on a basis of blatant lies, nice suits, and nice speeches.”

Looks like Pea had one too many Hyperbole Sandwiches for breakfast.

Keep Up the Good Fight!

August 19th, 2011
10:37 am

how many calories are in a bagel vs a doughnut

If there were only some way to, say, investigate that information on say a computer myself…….

mm

August 19th, 2011
10:38 am

For the life of me, other than political theatre, I can’t figure out why some many righties despise Obama. He has taken the right of center approach on everything. He has caved to the right, again and again, to the dismay of the left.

Same with Clinton. He swerved to the right, but was still hated by the right.

If Obama had an “R” by his name, the righties would have loved him. The left would still be pissed, only because he was doing what an “R” was expected to do, instead of being backstabbed by a “D”.

Stonethrower

August 19th, 2011
10:38 am

Bosch

No, I do not believe he is the rightful leader. He faces total opposition from the GOP and doesn’t have the full backing of his own party. At least we can say if nothing else, President Bush had full support of his own party. The debt ceiling debacle was proof enough for me that both sides of Congress will do what it takes to make sure he serves only one term.

Paul

August 19th, 2011
10:39 am

I think Pres Obama has it sized up about right. The strategy worked for Truman, it can work agaon.

Doggone/GA

“Perry/Palin in 2012. If things don’t go well once they’re in office, Perry can secede and Palin can quit”

Now, THAT’S funny!

Uncle Jed

“Remember children, especially little Paulie,”

You posting that every day now? You been on a date with @@ or something?

Joe the Plutocrat

From downstairs: Perry was a ‘yell leader’ at Texas A&M. They had cheerleaders, but that referred to the women. Sen Kay Baily Hutchison was a cheerleader. Then she became a senator.

Perry stayed a yell leader.

Bosch

August 19th, 2011
10:39 am

mm,

“I can’t figure out why some many righties despise Obama.”

I know why.

out of the blue

August 19th, 2011
10:40 am

President Obama should take a page out of this guys book.

And, use it against the neo-cons who are trying to dismantle all the good things this country offers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRZUaW0HwCM

Joe the Plutocrat and closet honey badger

August 19th, 2011
10:40 am

Common Sense, you’re missing my point; THERE IS NO OBAMA EFFECT as far as the Dow. Seriously, you might as well look into the the Obama effect when somebody buys a Powerball ticket. The two POTUSs who “effected” the Dow were Clinton (signed repeal of Glass-Steagall) and Bush, further de-regulated the derivitives markets. And of course, there’s always the Federal Reserve Bank. I noted this to somebody yesterday; the POTUS is not a “leader”. he is merely 1/3 of a corrupt three-headed monster that operates our equally corrupt government enterprise. He doesn’t “make decisions” so much as he makes decisions as instructed by others. frankly, we might do well to install a computer in the White House, but then who would “program” the computer?

md

August 19th, 2011
10:40 am

Personally, I’d guess the SC decision on the mandate will play a huge role in the election. Timing is everything, and IF it gets shot down next year, Obama’s signature legislation goes down in flames……not good when Paygo was one of the other big brouhaha pieces of nonsense………….

And this go around, Obama must defend all this in the debates……..”Mr Obama, why pass a bill such as Paygo without the intention of ever using it?”