Credit downgrade by S&P unfortunately is deserved

Why did Standard & Poors downgrade the credit of the United States of America?

“We lowered our long-term rating on the U.S. because we believe that the prolonged controversy over raising the statutory debt ceiling and the related fiscal policy debate indicate that further near-term progress containing the growth in public spending, especially on entitlements, or on reaching an agreement on raising revenues is less likely than we previously assumed and will remain a contentious and fitful process. We also believe that the fiscal consolidation plan that Congress and the administration agreed to this week falls short of the amount that we believe is necessary to stabilize the general government debt burden by the middle of the decade.

The political brinksmanship of recent months highlights what we see as America’s governance and policymaking becoming less stable, less effective, and less predictable than what we previously believed. The statutory debt ceiling and the threat of default have become political bargaining chips in the debate over fiscal policy. Despite this year’s wide-ranging debate, in our view, the differences between political parties have proven to be extraordinarily difficult to bridge, and, as we see it, the resulting agreement fell well short of the comprehensive fiscal consolidation program that some proponents had envisaged until quite recently. Republicans and Democrats have only been able to agree to relatively modest savings on discretionary spending while delegating to the Select Committee decisions on more comprehensive measures. It appears that for now, new revenues have dropped down on the menu of policy options. In addition, the plan envisions only minor policy changes on Medicare and little change in other entitlements, the containment of which we and most other independent observers regard as key to long-term fiscal sustainability.

So let’s review:

Who forced “the prolonged controversy over raising the statutory debt ceiling” cited by S&P?

Who rejected “the comprehensive fiscal consolidation program,” with cuts to entitlements accompanied by higher revenues, producing a debt reduction of $4 trillion, proposed by President Obama? That would have produced twice the debt reduction promised in the deal that was finally accepted.

Who rejected the very notion of compromise, making “the differences between political parties … extraordinarily difficult to bridge,” with one side announcing that only total capitulation by the other side would be accepted?

Who embraced the policy of political brinksmanship that pushed the country so perilously close to default? Who publicly embraced the threat of default as “a hostage that’s worth ransoming,” announcing that the tactic would be used every time the debt-ceiling issue arises from now on?

The answers are obvious.

You cannot take the country’s credit rating hostage for weeks — with many Republicans proudly announcing that they were willing, and in some cases eager, to shoot that hostage — and then blame somebody else when the hostage turns out to have been harmed in the process.

At least in a sane world you can’t. In this current insanity, you can do so blithely.

“Standard & Poor’s rating downgrade is a deeply troubling indicator of our country’s decline under President Obama,” Mitt Romney said Friday. “His failed policies have led to high unemployment, skyrocketing deficits, and now, the unprecedented loss of our nation’s prized AAA credit rating.”

This is the same Mitt Romney who, in a great demonstration of leadership prowess, stayed absolutely silent during the crisis, refusing to indicate what he thought or what he recommended. Only after the deal was cut did he announce that he would not have accepted it because it was not tilted sufficiently to the GOP position.

Mitt, S&P is talking about YOU.

U.S. Rep. Michele Bachmann, who voted against the final deal, said last night that “this president has destroyed the credit rating of the United States.”

“I call on the president to seek the immediate resignation of Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner and to submit a plan with a list of cuts to balance the budget this year, turn our economy around and put Americans back to work.”

Did you catch that? Bachmann wants to balance the budget THIS YEAR, a fact that anybody with a lick of sense knows is financially and mathematically impossible. It sounds good, but it has no basis in reality.

Michele, when S&P laments that “America’s governance and policymaking (is) becoming less stable, less effective, and less predictable than what we previously believed, it is talking about YOU.

As a tactic to achieve political gain, the Republican Party consciously chose to undercut market confidence in the country’s financial status and its willingness to pay its debts. The country is now paying the consequences of that political stunt.

Let’s take a look at what else S&P has to say:

The agency makes crystal clear that its downgrade has come in part because it can no longer assume, as it once did, “that the 2001 and 2003 tax cuts, due to expire by the end of 2012, remain in place. We have changed our assumption on this because the majority of Republicans in Congress continue to resist any measure that would raise revenues, a position we believe Congress reinforced by passing the act.”

Furthermore, to justify keeping America’s new credit rating of AA+, S&P envisions a “revised upside scenario” “that incorporates $950 billion of new revenues on the assumption that the 2001 and 2003 tax cuts for high earners lapse from 2013 onwards, as the administration is advocating.”

If that doesn’t happen, the nation’s credit rating could be dropped still further.

Is that likely to happen?

Ask Michele Bachmann. Ask Mitt Romney. Ask Mitch McConnell and Eric Cantor and Grover Norquist and Rush Limbaugh and John Boehner.

They’ll all say no, it’s not going to happen. And then they’ll blame it on Obama.

Standard & Poors does have credibility problems of its own, having sold its integrity during the runup to the 2008 market collapse by giving artificially high ratings to financial instruments in return for business. It also made a fundamental $2 trillion error in its initial announcement of its ratings downgrade and was forced to correct that mistake by the Treasury Department.

Nonetheless, its decision is correct. You can’t publicly announce to the world that you are perfectly willing to default on our debt, as one of our two major political parties has done, and expect it to have no consequences.

Clearly, it has consequences.

– Jay Bookman

1,570 comments Add your comment

Thomas

August 6th, 2011
11:15 am

About the same effect as Jennifer Lopez saying your voice was a little pitchy tonight. S&P and Moody’s have no credibilty.

Have a comprehensive economic plan that involves increasing and expanding tax base. Incent US taxpayers both retail and institutional with higher yields for holding US Treasuries. Tell S&P/Moody’s/Russia/China to take a hike. China says we need to get our house in order we respond with keep your cheap plastic sh*t made off the backs of $5/day folks at home- f yourself.

Southern Comfort

August 6th, 2011
11:16 am

You asked for it, you got it.. Toyota!!!

Well, we didn’t really get a Toyota, but we were just begging for that slap down by credit agencies.

Gordon

August 6th, 2011
11:17 am

If it wasn’t for the Republicans “holding America hostage” with the debt ceiling, there wouldn’t have been any spending cuts at all. Obama ignored his own debt comissions recommendations, didn’t mention any spending cuts until the end of his SOTU speech, proposed a budget so absurd it was rejected 97-0 by the Senate, to this day hasn’t proposed a written plan for deficit reduction, and his biggest concern was moving the debate past the election. He has shown ZERO leadership on this issue, and the Democrats haven’t been much better. The Ryan plan, Tom Colburn’s plan, Cut Cap & Balance all would have averted this downgrade, but nothing the Democrats have proposed would.

Both sides have led us to this huge debt and deficit, but it is the Republicans (for the most part the Tea Party) who are actually proposing things that solve the problem at this point. It makes absolutely no sense to add revenue until there are meaningful cuts that are not backloaded (75% of the current deal’s cuts are 2017 and later). We’ve tried that before and it didn’t work.

Mary Elizabeth

August 6th, 2011
11:17 am

Thanks for calling it straight, Jay.

And I agree that the decision is a correct one because without real consequences for what has been sown, artifice would only continue. “We reap what we sow.”

Gordon

August 6th, 2011
11:20 am

By the way, Jay, I took Bachmann’s comments to mean she wants a plan to balance the budget SUBMITTED this year (e.g. cut, cap, and balance), not that she wants a plan submitted to balance the budget within 365 days. But I could be wrong.

Uncle Jed

August 6th, 2011
11:20 am

One of Obama’s biggest shortcomings is in surrounding himself with incompetency in general.
Timmy the Taxcheat may possess knowledge but he seems so clueless sometimes. If spending is not drastically cut there can be no fix for our financial woes. There isn’t enough available money in the system to simply tax our way to solvency. A balance is the way, but cuts and caps are the two legs of the stool that can carry most of the load our lard-ass society now represents.

Let’s go back to April for some quotes from “Timmy the Taxcheat”:

‘No risk’ the US will lose its top credit rating, says Treasury’s Geithner
By Michael O’Brien – 04/19/11 10:33 AM ET

Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner said Tuesday there is “no risk” the U.S. will lose its top credit rating amid a new analysis that revised its outlook on American debt to “negative.”

Geithner took to the airwaves of financial news networks to push back against a report Monday by Standard & Poor’s that lowered its outlook on U.S. debt to “negative,” reflecting political uncertainty over whether lawmakers will reach an agreement to address long-term debt.

There is no chance that the U.S. will lose its top credit rating, Geithner said, forcefully disputing the notion that S&P or other ratings services might downgrade U.S. bonds from their current AAA rating.

“No risk of that, no risk,” Geithner said on the Fox Business Network.

http://thehill.com/blogs/on-the-money/budget/156747-geithner-no-risk-that-us-loses-its-top-credit-rating

++++++++++++++++++++++++
Expected comment from the “radical” right:

DeMint: Geithner must go
By Peter Schroeder – 08/05/11 10:39 PM ET

Sen. Jim DeMint (R-S.C.) responded to the nation’s downgrade at the hands of Standard & Poor’s by calling for the resignation of Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner.

Saying “enough is enough,” the Tea Party favorite pressured President Obama to remove his top economic official and adopt a new perspective.

“The President should demand that Secretary Geithner resign and immediately replace him with someone who will help Washington focus on balancing our budget and allowing the private sector to create jobs,” he said in a statement. “For months he opposed all efforts to reduce the debt in return for a debt ceiling increase. His opposition to serious spending and debt reforms has been reckless and now the American people will pay the price.”

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

And the expected typical “solution” from the “loony” left:

Reid: S&P downgrade backs Dems’ call for more revenue
By Jamie Klatell – 08/05/11 10:24 PM ET

Standard & Poor’s decision to downgrade the nation’s credit rating reinforces Democrats’ call for increasing tax revenue, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) said Friday.

+++++++++++++++++++++++

The rhetoric fixes nothing, neither here, nor in D.C.

Here’s wishing you the weekend of your choosing.

Normal

August 6th, 2011
11:22 am

Now all we have to do is raise taxes on the Middle Class. That will fix everything! ;)

1811/0311

August 6th, 2011
11:23 am

1811/0311

August 6th, 2011
11:24 am

Excuse me:

DESERVED by Obama.

UNDESERVED by the American people.

Thank you Barry …………. you’re the first at something again.

1811/0311

August 6th, 2011
11:24 am

Jay

August 6th, 2011
11:26 am

Geithner, like most sane observers, probably never expected the Republicans to be as clearly irresponsible as they were. Back then it was unthinkable that elected representatives would behave in such a fashion.

These calls for his resignation are absurd. What exactly should he have done as Treasury secretary to avoid this? Anybody?

getalife

August 6th, 2011
11:27 am

Some gop heads must roll for this failure.

The speaker should resign and grover should be tar and feathered and run out of Washington.

Enough with the gop destruction of our country.

Real Scooter

August 6th, 2011
11:27 am

Somehow I just knew this was all the Reps fault.At least on Jay’s blog site anyway. :grin:

Jay

August 6th, 2011
11:27 am

Gordon, even if you’re right, the 2012 fiscal year begins Oct. 1.

It is politically and mathematically impossible to balance it.

Bruno

August 6th, 2011
11:28 am

Bruno may be a smarmy, unctuous, arrogant, ego-maniacal jerk

And the scary part, RW, is that those are my good points.

The downgrade by S&P was more political than it was based on debt. If it were truly about debt, then all three would have downgraded us.

SC–I’m not sure that I agree with you on this one. The rating agencies don’t always issue the same ratings. And, if a credit downgrade was simply based on Congress squabbling with one another, we would have had a FFF rating going back all the way to the 1960s. Though I can’t deny that some politics possibly factors into their decision, the downgrade is ostensibly based upon S & P’s evalution that not enought spending cuts wre enacted to put us on sound financial footing.

Direct, simple question to the Libs: Are we spending (1) too much (2) just the right amount (3) not enough. Put your poor, little hurt feelings aside for a minute and give me a realistic answer.

Jay

August 6th, 2011
11:28 am

Somehow I just knew this was all the Reps fault.At least on Jay’s blog site anyway.

Take it up with the folks at S&P, Scooter.

Thomas

August 6th, 2011
11:29 am

When I said ‘change we can believe in’ I didn‘t say ’change we can believe in tomorrow.’ Not change we can believe in next week. We knew this was going to take time because we’ve got this big, messy, tough democracy,” President Obama said at a campaign fundraiser in Chicago on Wednesday night.

Love the “big, messy, tough democracy”
Might should have thought about that before running for President. Kind of like a second baseman saying “man, those fastballs are really fast”

Real Scooter

August 6th, 2011
11:30 am

I’m still trying to figure out just where the Tea Party fits into all of this.Whew!

Gordon

August 6th, 2011
11:31 am

“Who rejected the very notion of compromise, making “the differences between political parties … extraordinarily difficult to bridge,” with one side announcing that only total capitulation by the other side would be accepted?”

What hogwash. Just take a look at the deal that was agreed upon and it is obvious that isn’t true. Republicans wanted far more cuts that were actually in this plan, and wanted them sooner. They also didn’t want the ceiling raised so far that it wouldn’t come up again before the election. This deal doesn’t cut anything at all, it just slows the increase in spending. That’s why we are being downgraded – the Republicans compromised too much.

Who embraced the policy of political brinksmanship that pushed the country so perilously close to default? Who publicly embraced the threat of default as “a hostage that’s worth ransoming,” announcing that the tactic would be used every time the debt-ceiling issue arises from now on?”

We ARE GOING TO DEFAULT (or monetize the debt) if we don’t fundamentally reform entitlements. If the Republicans had simply signed on to raising the debt ceiling we wouldn’t even have the pitiful “cuts” we have now.

getalife

August 6th, 2011
11:31 am

“DeMint: Geithner must go”

Geiithner wanted to use the Constitution to avoid it but the tea party are to blame.

Demint should resign with the tea party members.

Personal responsibility cons.

Own it.

Jay

August 6th, 2011
11:31 am

“… the downgrade is ostensibly based upon S & P’s evalution that not enought spending cuts wre enacted to put us on sound financial footing.”

Bruno, that is a lie, as S&P’s own statement makes explicit. While it says it does not have a position on the exact mix of revenue and cuts that will be needed, it is as clear as possible that revenues must be part of the deal.

Too Big to Fail

August 6th, 2011
11:33 am

What is Standard & Poor, some kind of god or something?

Bruno

August 6th, 2011
11:34 am

that the prolonged controversy over raising the statutory debt ceiling and the related fiscal policy debate indicate that further near-term progress containing the growth in public spending, especially on entitlements, or on reaching an agreement on raising revenues is less likely than we previously assumed and will remain a contentious and fitful process.

Jay–I’m sure you and the Libs will go to your graves “knowing” that it was the mean, old recalcitrant Republicans that prompted this dramatic showdown. Nothing I say will change that fact. But, if you’re interested in the view from the other side of the political aisle, it was the Democrats refusal to realistically address the overspending that led to the objectionable negotiating tactics.

And BTW, to save you a little typing, I’ve already read your mind and can hear your “abused wife” analogy coming. “She made me do it.” Well, this time she did. So go ahead and call me whatever names you want.

Disgusted

August 6th, 2011
11:35 am

So what does the downgrade mean?

It means the end of Social Security and Medicare as we know it. The Republicans have been attacking SS since its inception in the 1930s and likewise Medicare since it was instituted. They have finally found the perfect excuse to phase both out.

At one time, SS was referred to as the “third rail of politics.” Not any more. It is no longer untouchable. Even the current seniors fail to see the implications of a change in SS. Through the cynical promise of keeping SS as it is for the elderly and those approaching elderly status, the Republicans have muted the criticism that would normally come over a change. And through holding fast to a no-tax-increase pledge, they have left cuts in SS and Medicare as the only option available to restore some fiscal balance.

Look for a change shortly. It may come through means testing. It may come through reduced future benefits for those who are not now 55 or over. It may come through a combination. And, oh yes, to buy the support of younger voters, it will be accompanied by a promise to allow people to open their own private retirement accounts and to fund them with what are now SS and Medicare contributions. The temporary reduction in “payroll taxes” was merely a gateway for opening SS and Medicare up to radical changes, for the move opened the gate to seeing SS and Medicare as mere entitlement programs, not as self-funded mechanisms.

Watch for the change. It will come very soon. In fact, it may be the price that Democrats have to pay to get any increased tax revenue whatsoever, even the restoration of the Clinton tax rates. The Republicans have finally won the war, and the incompetent in the White House is too stupid even to recognize it.

Gordon

August 6th, 2011
11:36 am

Jay, I understand it is mathematically impossible to balance the budget for several years. Bachmann and others just want a plan to get us there. As for it being politically impossible, I’m hoping that can be changed if enough people come to their senses. This downgrade and the dollar possibly not being the world’s reserve currency should be huge red flags that what are now considered extreme measures are what is needed.

getalife

August 6th, 2011
11:36 am

So, playing politics after a collapse and with a default does have consequences.

I tried to tell you cons.

Jay

August 6th, 2011
11:37 am

Gordon, you call it hogwash, and then in statements such as this you prove that I’m right:

“Republicans wanted far more cuts that were actually in this plan, and wanted them sooner. They also didn’t want the ceiling raised so far that it wouldn’t come up again before the election. This deal doesn’t cut anything at all, it just slows the increase in spending. That’s why we are being downgraded – the Republicans compromised too much.”

Great. They wanted to do all this again before the election? Why? To help the country?

Hah. To help themselves politically. And I’m sure that another debt-ceiling crisis before the election would have been SO useful in convincing S&P that we were a stable, predictable borrower.

“The Republicans compromised too much.” Thanks for proving my point.

Normal

August 6th, 2011
11:38 am

Bottom line: Like SoCo says. We got it…now we have to live with it.

Welcome to the GOP way…First higher interest rates, then higher prices because of the interest rates, lower employment because of the higher prices because of the higher interest rates…and on and on.

I do know one thing though. I belong to senior social group and we have had some lively debates about the debt ceiling, etc. Last night I was amazed that, be they jackazz or elephant, they were united in on thing. They will all vote Democrat if their medicare and Social Security checks are lowered one red cent. Truly amazing that they want to see cuts in Defense, oil, and agriculture. From their mouths to Gods ears…

Bruno

August 6th, 2011
11:39 am

it is as clear as possible that revenues must be part of the deal.

Ok, then, as all of us cons have been saying, let’s all share that burden. Is that what you’ve been saying all along?? From the beginning of the 2008 election cycle, All I’ve heard about from the Left is “those tax cuts for the rich.” We all received a tax cut, and I’m damned glad I got mine. I’ve paid my fair share, year after year with little complaint. If taxes need to go up, let’s stop singling out one group for punishment. Ultimately, I think the loss of revenue is primarily due to the fact that we have less wage earners right now due to the unacceptable unemployment level.

Real Scooter

August 6th, 2011
11:39 am

Jay

August 6th, 2011
11:28 am

As bad as I hate to admit it Jay all of this is really going right over my head. Would you mind telling me how the below average shmoe like myself is going to be effected?

booger

August 6th, 2011
11:39 am

I seem to recall at the beginning of the debt crisis discussion, Obama and his band of merry men and women insisted on an increase in the debt ceiling with no strings attached. He also wanted a budjet which would increase the deficit even further.

I do not recall Obama asking for any entitlement cuts. I do however, recall him castigating a repub.congressman for making a proposal which would cut entitlements.

Bachmann said very clearly she wanted a balanced budjet plan this year. Your implication that she said differently comes very close to being a lie.

UnitedCorporationsOfAmerica

August 6th, 2011
11:42 am

Given the fact that S&P and Moody’s sold AAA ratings to multi billion dollar banks for their mortgage derivative securities, they’ve proven they are as corrupt as America’s corporate controlled house and senate. I can’t help but believe the only way to get America’s house in order is to criminalize all lobbying and lobbyist, no serving official can have any corporate ties whatsoever. Money is the corrupting factor IMO. Church and state should always be separate because of the inherent threat to the well being of the people, and so should there be separation of corporation and state/federal government. Bankers and oil men will always corrupt America’s government, so it seems. Corporate business models serve themselves which is in direct conflict with serving the people.

Jay

August 6th, 2011
11:42 am

“Jay, I understand it is mathematically impossible to balance the budget for several years. Bachmann and others just want a plan to get us there.

If that’s what Bachmann and others want, that’s what Bachmann and others should say.

But that ISN’T what she said, now is it? They are spewing radical nonsense and it’s become pretty clear that we should start taking them at their word instead of trying to twist what they say into something more moderate and acceptable, as you are trying to do.

M

August 6th, 2011
11:42 am

“When you look at this final agreement that we came to with the White House, I got 98 percent of what I wanted. I’m pretty happy.”

Speaker of the House John Boehner

md

August 6th, 2011
11:42 am

“It appears that for now, new revenues have dropped down on the menu of policy options. In addition, the plan envisions only minor policy changes on Medicare and little change in other entitlements, the containment of which we and most other independent observers regard as key to long-term fiscal sustainability.”

It also appears Jay only got through half that passage………………..

I didn’t expect anything any different……..finger pointing to stir the masses.

larry

August 6th, 2011
11:43 am

Didnt John Boehner say in an interview that he got what he wanted ?

I guess this is what he wanted.

oy.

Bruno

August 6th, 2011
11:43 am

Again, Libs, give me a straitght answer:

Are we spending (1) too much (2) just the right amount (3) not enough.

Republican Greed

August 6th, 2011
11:44 am

The Republicans compromised too much with Goldman Sachs, CitiBank, GM, Chrysler and the rest of those crooked corporations.

The anti free enterprise “Republican Bail Out” helped cause this mess.
A truly socialistic entitlement program for unethical business practices.
Live free or die.

Jay

August 6th, 2011
11:44 am

Scooter, among other things, this may very well mean a credit downgrade for a lot of state and local governments, which means that they will have to pay higher interest on money they borrow for roads, schools, jails, etc., which means YOU will be paying higher taxes.

M

August 6th, 2011
11:45 am

Bruno, considering that our infrastructure is crumbling and our schools are woefully underfunded, I’m tempted to say “not enough.” But I know that would give a lot of people an aneurysm.

Ayn Rant

August 6th, 2011
11:45 am

Terrific article, Jay! You cited evidence and named names. Let’s hope that more Americans wise up to the consequences of Republican demagoguery.

Jay

August 6th, 2011
11:45 am

Bruno: (1).

Especially as we look forward.

carlosgvv

August 6th, 2011
11:45 am

Jay, everything you say here is true and should be believed by those willing to see the Republicans for the destructive Party they are. Unfortunately, there will be those here who will berate you for being truthful and will continue to support a Party that will not hesitate to throw them out into the street in order to protect their wealthy patrons. What causes people to blindly support a Party that cares nothing for them defies explanation.

jconservative

August 6th, 2011
11:45 am

“S&P first put the government on notice in April that a downgrade was possible unless Congress and the administration came up with a credible long-term deficit reduction plan…”

To date Congress has not come up with a “credible long-term deficit reduction plan”.
And I doubt that this Congress a year before a presidential election will be able to come up with such a plan. And make no mistake, it is Congress that must pass the bills that resolve the problem.

So far all plans have been just to show the base, like show & tell in the Third Grade. So far there has been no credible effort to come up with a plan. Maybe the Gang of Six being an exception.

If one looks at the history of the National Debt it is obvious that “increased spending” and “intentionally reduced revenue” resulted in the National Debt increase of $13.7 trillion in the last 30 years. The numbers are there that prove the case.

So a credible plan would be one that reversed the last 31 years – a plan that reduced spending and increased revenue.

But one half of the House is prevented from acting because they took a “pledge”, a pledge not to increase revenue. This takes one half of the possible solutions off the table before the discussion even starts. It is like telling Mark Richt he can play South Carolina but he can only use his defense, the offense is off the table and out of the game.
,

Jay

August 6th, 2011
11:47 am

No, md, I made it quite clear in this piece and have throughout this process that entitlement cuts are going to be necessary.

Obama offered to include such cuts in a compromise that included revenues; the GOP refused to even consider the idea.

Bruno

August 6th, 2011
11:47 am

So what does the downgrade mean? It means the end of Social Security and Medicare as we know it.

And you have a problem with that, Disgusted?? Have you ever ran a business?? Meet payroll, plan for your employees retirements?? In the real world, you have to work within the budget you have. There are no unliimited credit increases.

Dave R. - 3k/4k/5k

August 6th, 2011
11:48 am

Oh, cry me a freakin’ river, Jay. :roll:

Without the prolonged controversy there wouldn’t have BEEN any reductions, just a clean increase which would have downgraded our bond rating as well. And even WITH the prolonged controversy, did you notice how serious these Congressional and administrative yahoos were on actually reducing our deficit? Most of the “cuts” don’t take effect until after 2016.

You want prolonged, Jay?

How about a President who submits a budget in January that calls for NO CUTS, and increased spending across the board?

How about an administration who lets months of negotiations drag on, then dumps a doubling of revenue increases and spending cuts on the table 3 weeks before the deadline?

How about a GOP-led House that wouldn’t accept even the removal of tax loopholes and subsidies to corporations?

How about a Democrat-led Senate so focused on compromise that they lost sight of the goal, which remains deficit reduction?

How about a Democrat leadership in the House and Senate who vowed to derail any attempts at entitlement reform?

How about a Speaker of the House that focuses way too much on polls and not enough on the people who got him that position?

Finally, how about idiot opinion columnists who writes garbage that only uses the single point he wants to make, rather than the totality of the S&P statement which blamed the size of the package as well as the prolonged controversy.

The ONLY good thing about this announcement is that any chance for Stimulus II or Infrastructure Investment III just died with no hope for resuscitation. But those of you who fail to acknowledge that BOTH sides are EQUALLY at fault here are as much responsible for the problem as the people who actually caused it. And you’ll gleefully go back into the voting booth in November of 2012 to re-elect the John Lewis, Phil Gingery and Jack Kingston fools who are all responsible for it.

M

August 6th, 2011
11:49 am

Both sides cannot be equally at fault if one side approached the table having signed silly pledges not to compromise.

Moody

August 6th, 2011
11:49 am

Standard and Poor is a pawn of Goldman Sachs.

Gordon

August 6th, 2011
11:49 am

Jay,

I’m not naive enough to believe the Republicans wouldn’t enjoy having this conversation again in the summer of 2012, but are you naive enough to believe Obama wanted it pushed to past the election for any different reason?

The higher the ceiling is raised, the more borrowing will occur before fundamental change that is so desperately needed will occur. Basically, even with this downgrade, we can go on borrowing 4 billion dollars a day for close to 2 more years, and there are almost no cuts between now and then. Raising the debt ceiling by a smaller amounts means that process, which is killing us, goes on for a shorter amount of time.

If either side were responsible, I would expect them to go back to work on a new debt bill right now in light of this development, and this time take it more seriously. Fundamental entitlement changes are needed NOW. Revenue can and will be only 20% at most given the huge numbers we face. A case can be made that the timing of that 20% should be delayed given 1) the recession and 2) the history of combining tax increases with benefit cuts.

getalife

August 6th, 2011
11:51 am

Scooter,

It means the speaker got 100% of what he wanted and should resign.

There should be an ad that shows the speaker bragging about getting what he wanted.

Then show the downgrade to force him to resign

He got jealous of Obama making history so he made his own.

Our first downgrade in history thanks to the gop.

md

August 6th, 2011
11:51 am

ME……..did you not read the passage either?? Calling it straight?

M

August 6th, 2011
11:51 am

Obama wanted it pushed past the election because it was the wisest thing to do.

Bail Out

August 6th, 2011
11:53 am

Fundamental entitlement changes are needed NOW for the unethical tax cheating corporations.

md

August 6th, 2011
11:53 am

“Obama offered to include such cuts in a compromise that included revenues; the GOP refused to even consider the idea.”

Please Jay…….do I really need to post Pelosi’s response to Obama’s offer??

The Dems don’t have clean hands in this debacle, and trying to lay it all on one side is a bit dishonest…………

Real Scooter

August 6th, 2011
11:54 am

Jay

August 6th, 2011
11:44 am

Thanks Jay! I guess I might as well bend over and take it. Whew!

Dave R. - 3k/4k/5k

August 6th, 2011
11:55 am

“Somehow I just knew this was all the Reps fault.At least on Jay’s blog site anyway.

Take it up with the folks at S&P, Scooter.”

Bullcrap, Bookman!

The S&P folks blamed the prolonged controversy and didn’t assign party blame.

That fell to the uninformed, partisan and petty opinion columnist to do so.

Just me again

August 6th, 2011
11:55 am

Dear Republicans,
SchoolHouse Rock was an effective teaching tool. Please select the “I’m Just a Bill” video to understand who is responsible for drafting a responsible fiscal plan. The President can only sign it or veto it. Also, you keep saying that we can’t raise taxes on the job creators (even though they are not creating jobs). What are they going to do now that taxes are the lowest they have been EVER?

Republicans, where is your jobs bill? What is your plan?

Paulo977

August 6th, 2011
11:55 am

Jay
“While it says it does not have a position on the exact mix of revenue and cuts that will be needed, it is as clear as possible that revenues must be part of the deal.”

Unfortunately those who obsess about the irresponsibility of spending , mainly because it is to aid the ‘lazy’,have a lopsided view of how the economy is supposed to work!

Gary G

August 6th, 2011
11:56 am

Jay and those who agree with him are not very bright regarding economics and finance. I guess his wife handles the check book.

Let’s look at the facts: All the credit agencies told the whitehouse and congress that they had to reduce expenses by $4 Trillion dollars to avoid a down grade. What did Obama do? He asked for the congress to give him a clean bill to raise the debt limit – the freedom to spend more money without any reductions in spending. What did the Democrats want? They wanted to raise taxes on the rich, take away or reduce the mortgage deduction from many homeowners, and offered to cut future spending that wasn’t going to be spent anyway (money allocated for the war in Iraq and Afganistan that will not be needed with the drawdown). Neither of those options would have prevented the down grade.

What did the republicans want? They wanted to cut Real Expenses that would affect the real bottom line. They wanted no tax increases since anyone who understands these things KNOWS that increased taxes increases unemployment and slows down the economy (we need neither now).

So, why after this deal did S&P reduce the rating? Because the Republicans only control the House and had to negotiate with the Democrat controlled Senant and Whitehouse. The Republicans got the best deal they could with those on the otherside of the table. Sadly, it wasn’t enough to avoid the down grade. But, you can’t blame them for it (I guess you guys can since you have no clue on what is wrong, how to fix it, and what are the concequences of not fixing it).

It is the fault of those of you who live on the government’s teat that we are in this mess.

md

August 6th, 2011
11:56 am

“Who rejected “the comprehensive fiscal consolidation program,” with cuts to entitlements accompanied by higher revenues, producing a debt reduction of $4 trillion, proposed by President Obama? That would have produced twice the debt reduction promised in the deal that was finally accepted.”

The answer would be Boehner and Pelosi…..for those that want the truth.

So that “obvious” part of the above is incorrect…………….

James S.

August 6th, 2011
11:56 am

S&P downgraded the US credit becasue the deal on the debt ceiling did too little, not because it did too much. The US has a level of spending that we cannot afford and it will be getting massively worse in the coming years. Without dealing with these issues and stopping the endless demagogery, our credit rating will continue to decline.
It might be more helpful if Bookman faced some economic reality rathr than endless partsan blarney.
BTW…Obama had a bigger deal on the table and just couldn’t pull the trigger. I think the lefties in the party held him hostage.

Bruno

August 6th, 2011
11:57 am

Great. They wanted to do all this again before the election? Why? To help the country? Hah. To help themselves politically.

In case you didn’t notice, Jay, “your” side got the concession they wanted. No more budget wrangling before the 2012 election. Hard to say who will benefit the most from this since it looks like both sides are suffering in the opinion polls right now.

Gordon

August 6th, 2011
11:58 am

I would be curious for Jay or anyone else to state how much of the deficit they think should be bridged by revenue increases vs. spending cuts. 50/50? I say at most 4 to 1 cuts over revenue. I would also like to hear what anyone thinks a Democrat in Congress saying the following in 2017 is:

“I know we as Americans are really feeling the pain of those cuts made 6 years ago to entitlements, but unfortunately the real pain starts now because 75% of the cuts are just starting. The higher taxes kicked in 4 years ago, and we agreed that with the higher taxes we would follow through on these cuts. So suck it up America, we got the higher taxes we wanted so now we have follow through on our part of the deal.”

Dave R. - 3k/4k/5k

August 6th, 2011
11:58 am

“The Dems don’t have clean hands in this debacle, and trying to lay it all on one side is a bit dishonest…”

Oh, c’mon, md! The Democrats are the greatest thing to have hit this country since sliced bread! Didn’t you know that? The most incompetent President in the history of this nation is just perfect. The worst former Speaker (and first woman in that position) in the history of this nation can do no wrong.

You’re obviously not reading their playbook, son.

M

August 6th, 2011
11:59 am

Brad Steel

August 6th, 2011
11:59 am

Saying S&P has some credibility problems is too understated. They are red-handed in their significant guilt in the current economic crisis. The spineless whores rated junk securitized mortgage backed paper AAA because they were paid to do so by Wall Street.

The rating agencies are corrupt, and should have been served put out of our misery. They need to go rate (PG-13 blog) themselves.

thebob.bob

August 6th, 2011
12:00 pm

Republicans have destroyed America. They know it and the American people know it.

out of the blue

August 6th, 2011
12:00 pm

So what does the downgrade mean? It means the end of Social Security and Medicare as we know it.

And you have a problem with that, Disgusted??

Have you ever ran a business?? Meet payroll, plan for your employees retirements?? In the real world, you have to work within the budget you have. There are no unliimited credit increases.

And, you have Bruno? It appears to me blogging all day and night does not equal meeting payrolls, nor planning for your employees retirements (benefits). It equals to stealing from your employer.

You wrote the other day, paraphrasing here. Oops my boss is giving me the evil eye got to go, will catch you all later.

Typical!

Real Scooter

August 6th, 2011
12:02 pm

getalife

August 6th, 2011
11:51 am

Good day to ya getalife!
According to Jay our taxes are probably going up.Isn’t that what the Dems wanted anyway?

Recon (2nd.and 3rd.)

August 6th, 2011
12:03 pm

Looks like Bookman spent the night and most of his morning cutting and pasting this epistle of bunk absolving Obama from what was a clear lack of White House leadership.

Dave R. - 3k/4k/5k

August 6th, 2011
12:03 pm

“Who rejected “the comprehensive fiscal consolidation program,” with cuts to entitlements accompanied by higher revenues, producing a debt reduction of $4 trillion, proposed by President Obama? That would have produced twice the debt reduction promised in the deal that was finally accepted.”

Actually, there would have been NO debt reduction in Hope & Incompetent’s ™ proposal, just as there is no DEBT reduction in the one that passed.

All this is merely DEFICIT reduction and will not reduce our debt by one cent.

getalife

August 6th, 2011
12:03 pm

It was self inflicted by the gop.

Personal responsibility cons.

md

August 6th, 2011
12:04 pm

Dave…. :)

Unfortunately, the playbook is on full display……….and if anyone took the time to actually look up what was and wasn’t offered, they would see that……….but no, they’ll take their marching orders and play the game of pawns.

I’ll offer up ME and her definition of “calling it straight”…………..

Big Red

August 6th, 2011
12:05 pm

Let’s see here: the Senate, controlled by Democrats, voted 0-97 for Obama’s budget proposal. Democrats did not pass one single budget – something the Constitution mandates – in over two years of complete power in all three branches (that’s the House, the Senate, and the White House for you Obama voters). All the while they quadrupled the debt and just printed more money effectively rendering the US dollar less and less valuable.

And you liberal Democrats are going to blame the GOP solely on this mess we’re in. How pathetically disgusting. But not surprising. Yeah man, when Democrats said we must restore civility, they meant it, didn’t they? Gag me.

Bruno

August 6th, 2011
12:06 pm

How about a GOP-led House that wouldn’t accept even the removal of tax loopholes and subsidies to corporations?

Dave R–I’ve tried to always make it a policy to focus on what I’m doing wrong, not so much the other guy (insert laughter here). While the Repubs are definitely the knights in shining armor now on the spending side, Jay’s point stands that we need to look on the revenue side as well. A lot of the lost revenue is most certainly due to the reduction of wage earners due to the prolonged unemployment numbers. That will take time to correct, and “buying” these people a job can’t work through stimulus spending simply because robbing Peter to pay Paul never works, especially when Peter and Paul are simply two schizophrenic personalities of the same entity. A the same time, there should be some simple steps we can take to harvest the contributions more equitably.

Dave R. - 3k/4k/5k

August 6th, 2011
12:06 pm

Recon, lack of White House leadership (a constant state since January of 2009) is not the only reason for this problem.

It is timid leadership on the part of the GOP, and unwavering dogma on both sides to not address revenues and real cuts that are part of this as well.

George P. Burdell

August 6th, 2011
12:07 pm

The real reason the debt was finally downgraded, although S&P has to be more tactful, is because with the debt ceiling raised, we are now authorized to cross over that magic line where we have more debt than annual economic output. This idea that it has to do with the political issues is a ridiculous argument because the issues have been going on long before. If S&P has hurt its credibility, it is because they waited so long to downgrade our debt, not because they just did it. No one has treated our debt as AAA for a while now. I realize we get very good interest rates but that is entirely due to the fact that we are the reserve currency of the world. We are working hard to lose that distinction and once we do, all bets are off.

This country has hard choices to make and when Jay and the left decide to politicize the issue even further ( as plenty of Republicans have done as well), it only makes it harder to get to the point that we start making the cuts we have to make. I really don’t think we are going to be able to correct it at this point. Some countries have recovered from such a massive debt compared to GDP ratio, but far more have failed. I’d be optimistic if we looked to be making steps towards it but we have far too many people that either fail to realize how dire the situation is or would rather spend time pointing figures and rewriting history.

Bruno

August 6th, 2011
12:09 pm

I’ll offer up ME and her definition of “calling it straight”…………

md–You insensitive clod. You simply don’t have the sophistication to understand Mary Elizabeth’s multi-layered levels of advanced thinking. And how dare you challenge her points in a public forum like this??

ME–Got your back for you. ;-)

getalife

August 6th, 2011
12:12 pm

Scooter,

Clinton taxes worked.

We will go back to ignoring cons now and go back to the Clinton economy.

The dumbest people in government are toast.

Bruno

August 6th, 2011
12:13 pm

Let’s see here: the Senate, controlled by Democrats, voted 0-97 for Obama’s budget proposal. Democrats did not pass one single budget – something the Constitution mandates – in over two years of complete power in all three branches (that’s the House, the Senate, and the White House for you Obama voters). All the while they quadrupled the debt and just printed more money effectively rendering the US dollar less and less valuable.

And you liberal Democrats are going to blame the GOP solely on this mess we’re in. How pathetically disgusting. But not surprising. Yeah man, when Democrats said we must restore civility, they meant it, didn’t they? Gag me.

C’mon, Big Red, get with the program. Who cares about all of that?? Those mean Republicans played hardball with the poor, defenseless Democrats. And those mean-spirited, racist Tea Party people forced Congeress to address the overspending. Now Grandma is going to starve.

bookman parrot

August 6th, 2011
12:13 pm

jay you forgot that your glorious leader and lib minions wouldn’t budge much on cutting spending on entitlements.

md

August 6th, 2011
12:14 pm

Gee Bruno……step on my back to cover hers :)

MightyRighty

August 6th, 2011
12:14 pm

Amazing how words can be twisted to mean whatever one wants. I read Bachmanns remarks as asking for a balanced budget “proposal” this year. Also, no one, has seen an Obama proposal to do anything at all. There has never been one. He has only mouthed words which we know for a fact have expirations built into them assuming anything this president says has meaning at all. Did anyone notice how our responsibility ducker in charge started using the word “we” during his speech yesterday? I think his “mirror mirror” on the wall informed him to quit taking credit for his failed policies. It’s time to spread the blame around to someone other than Bush. The people aren’t buying it anymore. Jay, I know you are a designated water carrier for this president but your bucket is leaking. Obama’s spending caused the debt crisis, his lack of leadership dragged it out, his policies worsend the recession and his ideaology will prevent this country from ever recovering under his administration. Yesterday, during his speech, he actually blamed the american people. Pathetic. He is a pathetic excuse for a president.

Dave R. - 3k/4k/5k

August 6th, 2011
12:14 pm

Isn’t “bookman parrot” a redundant term? :D

Jay

August 6th, 2011
12:15 pm

Wrong, Dave.

Both sides are NOT equally to blame. The GOP refused to consider any new revenue whatsoever — revenue that you yourself have acknowledged is necessary. As long as that’s the case, they are to blame for their intransigence in blocking a larger deal.

I should also point out that the Bowles-Simpson approach was originally a bipartisan effort in the Senate. In fact, the original legislation would have created such a commission and given it real teeth. However, once Obama embraced it as a way to serious means of addressing the debt, every Republican co-sponsor abandoned the deal and killed it.

Pure politics.

Obama went ahead and appointed the commission as a presidential body, without congressional approval.

Angry As Hell

August 6th, 2011
12:15 pm

Hey, who’s got the list of all those jobs created in America with the passage of the Bush Tax cuts? You know what list I’m talking about? There must surely have been thousands and thousands of jobs created for Americans with the Bush Tax cuts. No, I’m not talking about all those thousands and thousands of jobs created in the past 10 years with the passage of the Bush Tax cuts in India, Mexico, China, and other foreign countries with really cheap labor. You know,..all those jobs for we Americans..that list…

Uncle Billy

August 6th, 2011
12:15 pm

I agree with Jay’s political points, but S&P is suppose to estimate the risk of default. Aside from the debt limit provisions, the US borrows money in dollars and can create the dollars to pay the debt as it comes due. This is fundamentally unlike Greece, Ireland, Portugal, Spain and Italy which do not have their own currency.

I think the downgrade will have no effect on the rates the Treasury pays. It has fallen since the warning was first issued. The Treasury can borrow money at 0.01% for 90 days to 3.82% for 30 years. These are remarkably low rates because the supply of investable funds is very high and the demand for those funds is so low.

S&P downgraded Japanese government debt in 2002 and it can still borrow for 10 years at 1.10%. The downgrade had no effect, just as it will have no effect here. These markets are so vast and so liquid that anyone who is interested can have all the information which S&P has. And the US government does not pay S&P to get its bonds rated as the banks pooling all those toxic mortgages did. Actual investors trust the US Government more than they do S&P, and rightly so.

md

August 6th, 2011
12:15 pm

Actually Bruno……it’s folks like ME that concern me when it comes to the education of our children…….she’s not exactly practicing critical thinking…………

getalife

August 6th, 2011
12:16 pm

We should demand gop resignations for this self inflicted downgrade.

The speaker, cantor, demint, hatch and all other tea party members must resign in disgrace.

Personal responsibility cons.

Man up and resign.

Bruno

August 6th, 2011
12:16 pm

Gotta run, guys. Bruno is not likely to be in a good mood next week, so I’ll try to limit my blogging. My lying, bad-check writing tenant is probably going to be arrested, but he doesn’t know it yet. And it’s not even the lost revenue that has motivated me to press charges on him for the bad checks, but his bald-faces lying. Yanking Bruno’s chain like that isn’t usually a good idea.

Real Scooter

August 6th, 2011
12:16 pm

We will go back to ignoring cons now and go back to the Clinton economy.

Yeah getalife,I liked the Clinton economy AND the Bush economy until it callasped. :lol:

Jay

August 6th, 2011
12:17 pm

jay you forgot that your glorious leader and lib minions wouldn’t budge much on cutting spending on entitlements.

You cannot “forget” that which never happened. Obama made it clear that he was willing to deal on both Social Security and Medicare as part of the grand compromise. The GOP, because it refused to allow revenues to be considered as part of the mix, made that impossible.

Recon (2nd.and 3rd.)

August 6th, 2011
12:17 pm

Dave R. I’m not painting the Republicans as lilly white but they’ve felt heat from the T.P. and at least appear to have understood the message. I’ve never seen the public more aware and the least apathetic. Entitlements must be reformed and an environment hospitable for business growth here must be created and we must get out of Iraq and Afghanistan.

Dave R. - 3k/4k/5k

August 6th, 2011
12:18 pm

“Yesterday, during his speech, he actually blamed the american people.”

Mighty Righty, Hope & Incompetence ™ was actually right for once.

The American people are responsible for electing not only that particular clod, but each and every one of the 535 other clods to office. And I’m talking about the ones on the right who wouldn’t accept defense cuts and revenue increases as well as the usual suspects on the left who worship the very government they comprise.

Bruno

August 6th, 2011
12:18 pm

Gee Bruno……step on my back to cover hers

Buddy, I just saved you a 2000 word rebuke from her. You’ll thank me later.

ME–Just funnin’ with you. Stay away from that keyboard. ;-)

Southern Comfort

August 6th, 2011
12:19 pm

Bruno

http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/sandp-considering-first-downgrade-of-us-credit-rating/2011/08/05/gIQAqKeIxI_story.html
Lowering the nation’s rating to one notch below AAA, the credit rating company said “political brinkmanship” in the debate over the debt had made the U.S. government’s ability to manage its finances “less stable, less effective and less predictable.” It said the bipartisan agreement reached this week to find at least $2.1 trillion in budget savings “fell short” of what was necessary to tame the nation’s debt over time and predicted that leaders would not be likely to achieve more savings in the future.

And those are the words from S&P. They made mention of the political process. I’m just going off of what they’re saying. When I get more time, I’ll answer your 1,2,3 question.

Gary G

August 6th, 2011
12:21 pm

Clearly, this page is for the left wing loons who have no idea about finance, business, economics, etc. I guess most of the college educated people on this page skiped business school.

To illustrate of the greatest wish of the left – the confiscation of all the money made by the rich – if you took every dollar that everyone in America earned over $250,000 (a 100% tax on the amount over $250K), the federal government would only take in about $900 Billion. Since we are currently running a $1.5 Trillion deficit, this confiscation wouldn’t even pay the amount that we are borrowing this year alone.

But, the result would be higher unemployment as those who money was taken by the IRS don’t have money to hire new employees nor do they have the resources to increase their business to help grow the economy. Keynesian Economics has proven to be a failed economic theory. Obama has been trying it for 3 years with no positive results.

To save the economy, we need to get business producing enough for them to need to hire more people. But, they are delaying new hiring because they are hopeful that Obamacare will be repealed. So many business have already seeked and received waivers so that they don’t have to participate in Obamacare…how good can it be if so many businesses are getting waivers???

They also have to reverse many of the thousands of new regulations that hurt business.

If the next president is able to end Obamacare and reverse many of the anti-business regulations, the economy will take off at about 7% with unemployment dropping to around 4.5-5.5%, just as it has in the past when government removed their iron fist.

getalife

August 6th, 2011
12:22 pm

Monday will be a bad idea for the market.

I thought Simpson was a kook until he started telling the truth about his party.

Turns out he was right.

The President gave the cons an out by going big but the gop said no.

The gop still will not raise revenues so we should move the elections up and get rid of them.

md

August 6th, 2011
12:22 pm

“In addition, the plan envisions only minor policy changes on Medicare and little change in other entitlements, the containment of which we and most other independent observers regard as key to long-term fiscal sustainability.”

“We have been very clear Democrats are not supporting — House Democrats are not supporting any cuts in benefits for Social Security or Medicare,” Pelosi said.

And that folks is a from the party of yes……………

MikeDawg

August 6th, 2011
12:23 pm

Am I missing something here? Wasn’t it Dems who wanted to spend our way out of the recovery, and now they are surprised when credit rating agencies call their hand….

M

August 6th, 2011
12:24 pm

I had no idea Obama and his policies were so anti-business as I watched the DJIA go from 7000 to over 12,000 in the past 2.5 years.

Jay

August 6th, 2011
12:24 pm

Please Jay…….do I really need to post Pelosi’s response to Obama’s offer??

As minority leader in the House, a body without a filibuster rule, and as leader of the Democrats, a party without the rigid party discipline of the GOP, Pelosi had no power to block anything.

Dave R. - 3k/4k/5k

August 6th, 2011
12:25 pm

“Both sides are NOT equally to blame. The GOP refused to consider any new revenue whatsoever — revenue that you yourself have acknowledged is necessary. As long as that’s the case, they are to blame for their intransigence in blocking a larger deal.”

Jay, there are times when you can appear to be smart, but appearances can be deceiving.

Do we really have to go back to the statements of Boehner saying that he had a deal on smaller revenue increases until Hope & Incompetent ™ upped the ante?

We all know that you’re a partisan hack, Jay, but that doesn’t mean you should leave all shred of intellectual honesty at the keyboard when you type this crap.

They are all equally at fault, and no attempt at spin can change that reality.

Mark in mid-town

August 6th, 2011
12:26 pm

Let’s be clear about one thing. President Obama didn’t propose anything. They leaked this supposed 4 trillion dollar deal to their media minions, but Obama never proposed anything concrete. It was all for spin. And Bookman knows that.

getalife

August 6th, 2011
12:26 pm

Gary,

Personal responsibility.

Own it and stop blaming others.

Use some intellectual honesty for once in your lives.

This is your party’s self inflicted downgrade.

Period.

MightyRighty

August 6th, 2011
12:27 pm

Jay

August 6th, 2011
11:26 am

These calls for his resignation are absurd. What exactly should he have done as Treasury secretary to avoid this? Anybody?

Either he knew the truth and lied or he was incompetent. Either way, he should be fired.

Thulsa doom

August 6th, 2011
12:27 pm

You cannot take the country’s credit rating hostage for weeks — with many Republicans proudly announcing that they were willing, and in some cases eager, to shoot that hostage — and then blame somebody else when the hostage turns out to have been harmed in the process.- Jay

I’m shocked by the blatant dishonesty and the spin or twist you are putting on this situation Jay. And using the inflammatory rhetoric such as “hostage” and “shoot that hostage” doesn’t help either. Shame on you for this kind of heated rhetoric.

The truth is that the downgrade had absolutely nothing to do with the GOP making demands in the budget process. The truth is that the downgrade is a result of the fact that the budget agreement doesn’t cut enough. And in reality it doesn’t really come close to the 4 trillion in cuts that the rating agencies had said would be enough to sustain our rating.

Your blatant disregard for the truth does not change the simple fact that S&P downgraded us not because the GOP was demanding cuts and “taking hostage” but rather for the fact that ultimately S&P did not feel that the cuts in the budget deal were substantial enough.

Recon (2nd.and 3rd.)

August 6th, 2011
12:28 pm

“Obama made it clear that he was willing to deal on both Social Security and Medicare as part of the grand compromise.”

That’s an urban myth. Obama made mention of his willingness to deal with entitlements in a vague manner, the left went ballistic because they wanted tax increases and Obama then changed the framework deal he made with Boehner by insisting on tax increases to placate liberal members of Congress. That killed the deal that was smoke and mirrors anyway.

Jay

August 6th, 2011
12:28 pm

“To illustrate of the greatest wish of the left – the confiscation of all the money made by the rich – if you took every dollar that everyone in America earned over $250,000 (a 100% tax on the amount over $250K), the federal government would only take in about $900 Billion.

What utter nonsense. You try to have a serious discussion of the options, and baloney like this gets in the way. Is a 39 percent top marginal tax rate — less than half of what it was through the ’50s and significantly lower than the 50 percent rate in effect through much of Reagan’s term — now defined “total confiscation” by the right?

getalife

August 6th, 2011
12:29 pm

This means the economy will not recover like the gop wanted.

Now, they must be held accountable for this sabotage.

Heads must roll now.

Dave R. - 3k/4k/5k

August 6th, 2011
12:30 pm

As a reminder to the unthinking on this blog like the one-note wonder of political haiku, S&P has now issued us a wake-up call on DEBT reduction by calling us out on our failure to even address our DEFICIT reduction.

Gary G

August 6th, 2011
12:30 pm

Anyone who thinks tax increases is the solution to our economic problems is an idiot. The only solution is to cut spending. As I showed in my previous post, there isn’t enough money in the country to pay the current expenses. That is because we have too much government spending. There isn’t a program in the federal government that can’t be cut or cancelled.

Heck, it was jsut release that Obama gave most of his Whitehouse staff massive raises, with the top 20 getting over 40% raises – and that is salary’s that were in the $95,000 range that are now in the $130,000 range. Unbeleivable!!!

Why should any of us give more money to a government that can’t spend it efficiently. They are paying $110 for a PVC pipe that you can buy at Home Depot for $1.97. They are supporting programs that no one needs or wants, except those who are getting the money.

There needs to be a top down review of all expenses by an accounting/audit firm to recommend cuts and removal of programs to clean up the government waste in Washington.

I believe that the government could and should cut at least $1 trillion out of the annual budget, and could/should cut up to $2 Trillion. That would allow the economy to take off and save the day!

it is not the function of governent to take care of everyone from the craddle to the grave. to do so will only bankrupt the country…the proof is right before your eyes. Open them and learn.

Jay

August 6th, 2011
12:30 pm

“I’m shocked by the blatant dishonesty and the spin or twist you are putting on this situation Jay. And using the inflammatory rhetoric such as “hostage” and “shoot that hostage” doesn’t help either. Shame on you for this kind of heated rhetoric.

That’s not my rhetoric, Thulsa. That’s the rhetoric of the GOP leader in the U.S. Senate. Take it up with Mitch McConnell if you find that shocking and inflammatory.

md

August 6th, 2011
12:30 pm

“if you took every dollar that everyone in America earned over $250,000 (a 100% tax on the amount over $250K), the federal government would only take in about $900 Billion. Since we are currently running a $1.5 Trillion deficit, this confiscation wouldn’t even pay the amount that we are borrowing this year alone.”

But that doesn’t matter………the card can’t be played if folks knew the facts…….

The facts are….neither party has proposed rolling back the tax cuts to raise the needed revenue……but the Dems can fool a lot of folks (like Jay is trying to do) to believe the Dems made the right calls………..

out of the blue

August 6th, 2011
12:31 pm

Jay, LOL…Look at what you are doing to Wingfield’s readers, as well as Wooten’s.

All the wacko Loony Tune characters have to deluge their hatred of Obama, and any democrat on
your blog.

I believe The Michelle Bachmann, Louis Gohmert, Sarah Palin, Eric Cantor believers, and yes the birthers. Have this disorder to flock here, like a gaggle of geese just to honk, honk, honk and pull from you know where their idiotic talking points!

Kamchak

August 6th, 2011
12:31 pm

I guess most of the college educated people on this page skiped business school.

You mean those business schools that have been teaching phlogiston Economics 101 for over three decades.

M

August 6th, 2011
12:32 pm

Do people realize that cutting $1 trillion from the ANNUAL budget is pretty much the lion’s share of all discretionary spending? And they think the economy would blossom if we did that?

Thulsa doom

August 6th, 2011
12:33 pm

MikeDawg,

Nope. You’re not missing a thing. And it aint just you that is aghast at the hypocrisy of the liberals who seem surprised that A) We couldn’t spend our way into prosperity and B) the credit agencies would dare downgrade us after we’ve gone another 4 trillion into debt in 2 1/2 years with no end in sight. The fact that the liberals are suprised about this is the most surprising thing of all. Then again maybe it really isn’t that surprising that the liberals are surprised. They just don’t get the concept that you can’t run up trillions in new debt without expecting to see your debt downgraded.

md

August 6th, 2011
12:35 pm

“Is a 39 percent top marginal tax rate — less than half of what it was through the ’50s and significantly lower than the 50 percent rate in effect through much of Reagan’s term — now defined “total confiscation” by the right?”

Yet 39% isn’t enough to dent the problem……….that is where the dishonesty comes in…….

Dave R. - 3k/4k/5k

August 6th, 2011
12:35 pm

“What utter nonsense. You try to have a serious discussion of the options, and baloney like this gets in the way. Is a 39 percent top marginal tax rate — less than half of what it was through the ’50s and significantly lower than the 50 percent rate in effect through much of Reagan’s term — now defined “total confiscation” by the right?”

Jay, all of us on the conservative side are going to pitch in a buy you a knee brace to protect it when you go into knee-jerk mode (emphasis on the jerk).

The poster wasn’t trying to make a point that increasing rates to 39% was “total confiscation”. They were making the point that even if you DID confiscate 100% of the remaining income of the “rich” you still wouldn’t make a dent in the debt.

Reading comprehension is your friend, if not your strong suit.

Thulsa doom

August 6th, 2011
12:35 pm

Apparently the poo missed the memo that the Keynesian economics of the past 2 1/2 years and that crazy idea that you can spend your way into prosperity just isn’t working. Facts just don’t matter to some folks.

Gary G

August 6th, 2011
12:35 pm

Jay, my example of the $250K cap was an illustration of how much would be raise if all that was taking by the government. It was not a claim to what is being taken now.

The fact about tax rates in the past was this: In the 50’s – 70’s, the tax rates were much, much, higher, but the amount available for deductions was huge. While the rate was very high, the amount of actual taxes paid was about the same as now. This is supported by the graphs in the past weeks Wall Street Journal taht shows government revenue as a percentage of GDP has been about the same for the past 50 years. Again, it appears that you are talking about something that you do not understand.

getalife

August 6th, 2011
12:35 pm

Yes, the cons know they are to blame and the blogs are calling for resignations.

You are dumber not smarter so lets give that lie a rest.

We tried to warn you and our President tried to help you.

You are to blame.

Derek Wain

August 6th, 2011
12:37 pm

Obama’s redistributionist Socialist-lite class warfare “stimulus” has spent the U.S. economy into a Keynsian coma, buried the U.S. under a mountain of debt, and caused us to lose our AAA bond rating. Michele Bachmann has been 100% right all along on the TARP and the debt ceiling vote.

TW

August 6th, 2011
12:37 pm

Nice to see Congressman John Mica, the Florida Republican, apologizing for the disaster his party’s ‘hostage taking politics’ has led to.

Gordon

August 6th, 2011
12:37 pm

M @12:32,

And what will become of the economy when we default or monetize the debt? We are scheduled to owe $20 trillion dollars in 10 years. Face reality.

getalife

August 6th, 2011
12:39 pm

Thank you Rep. Mica.

A real man taking personal responsibility.

Lets see you man up cons and apologize.

I am waiting.

Thulsa doom

August 6th, 2011
12:40 pm

Jay,

You guys have been using the hostage taking and tea party terrorism line for some time now. Just look at this daily blog and see how many times the liberals on here have used the term taking hostage of the economy. Since when did it become terrorist for taxpayers to want the U.S. government to live within its means and balance the budget. Only in the bizarro world of the left can the terrorists be the ones that want fiscal sanity.

Dave R. - 3k/4k/5k

August 6th, 2011
12:41 pm

“Anyone who thinks tax increases is the solution to our economic problems is an idiot. The only solution is to cut spending.”

Wrong, Gary G. BOTH have to be addressed. You cannot even eliminate our DEFICIT with spending cuts alone. How do you expect to get a handle on our DEBT if you can’t get rid of the deficit spending?

Leave tax RATES where they are, but get rid of tax loopholes and subsidies for everybody. Then make actual cuts to spending, not cuts to spending increases. Reduce / eliminate regulations that hamper businesses. All these will bring added revenues and lower costs together to bring down our deficit.

Mark in mid-town

August 6th, 2011
12:41 pm

Jay,

When the top income tax rates were so much higher, what percentage of people actually paid such top rate? The answer is that hardly anybody actually paid such high rates. Money was largely sheltered and escaped those top rates. The major change over the past several decades is that top income earners now provide a higher overall percentage of government revenue and the lower tiers now provide a lower share of federal government revenue.

Gary G

August 6th, 2011
12:41 pm

Kamchak

August 6th, 2011
12:31 pm
I guess most of the college educated people on this page skiped business school.

You mean those business schools that have been teaching phlogiston Economics 101 for over three decades.

——————

And some on this page don’t know what the word “most” means. Clearly, there will be some who do know something about business…even those who I disagree with. Heck, you might even, wrongly, believe in Keynesian Economics, even though it has been proven wrong over the past few years through out the world (heck, even liberal Europe is looking to reduce expenses now to save themselves from the mess that they created.

Jay needs to stick with what he knows – History, the environment, and local politcs (that is questionable). Finance is clearly not in his bag of knowledge.

jconservative

August 6th, 2011
12:42 pm

“I say at most 4 to 1 cuts over revenue.”

I concur with that number Gordon.

One way to do this is to allow the Bush cuts to expire as scheduled but keep the Obama 2009 cuts. That would require, for the 4-1 mix, that spending be cut immediately beyond what anyone is currently proposing. So this will not happen as neither side is committed to cutting spending that deeply. They want to just trim around the edges.

The big problem is that every member of Congress has pets. Pet industries with tax loopholes, unneeded military bases in home states, and pet interests groups that fund their reelection campaigns, to name a few. This makes for a steep hill.

The big question is what kind of government will the voters decide they want in 2012? Who will control the House, Senate and the White House? Will the voters continue the divided government we now have?

Or, to be cynical, which major interest groups will get together and buy the election?

M

August 6th, 2011
12:44 pm

Gordon,

So your plan is to stop paying soldiers, de-fund public schools, and jettison the EPA?

And stop paving roads.

And stop building bridges.

And stop providing low-income housing.

And close national parks.

And shutter the offices of the FBI.

And so on.

And so forth.

Kamchak

August 6th, 2011
12:45 pm

Gary G

Did you spend the extra bucks to get the deluxe edition of your Ayn Rand blow-up doll?

getalife

August 6th, 2011
12:45 pm

Gary,

You cons pretend to be smarter than others and that is a proven lie.

Lets give that lie a rest okay?

Truth

August 6th, 2011
12:46 pm

We also believe that the fiscal consolidation plan that Congress and the administration agreed to this week falls short of the amount that we believe is necessary to stabilize the general government debt burden by the middle of the decade.

Jay:
Did you forget this statement? We still did not meet the necessary cuts. Nice try, but it wasn’t just about gridlock. The reality is we have a debt problem that will take this country down if not dealt with. We can’t keep acting like SSI, Medicare, etc. will take care of themselves without any hard changes.

Big Red

August 6th, 2011
12:46 pm

“Is a 39 percent top marginal tax rate — less than half of what it was through the ’50s and significantly lower than the 50 percent rate in effect through much of Reagan’s term — now defined “total confiscation” by the right?”–Jay Bookman

Once again a liberal columnist fails to give the total truth. In those years, American tax payers had a LOT more tax break options than they do today which lowered their overall effective tax rate and made it nominal across the board. But, don’t ever let facts get in the way of a good liberal rant. Here’s a clue just from 1979 (when the top rate was 70%) to 2007:

http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxfacts/displayafact.cfm?Docid=456

“Facts…are stubborn things.” –John Adams

Soothsayer

August 6th, 2011
12:47 pm

Now this is what I’m talking about: here is our stalwart blogmeister, JAY BOOKMAN, delivering us a new thread on Saturday no less. And not some wimply couple of paragraphs thread, but an insightful and challenging multiple paragraph thread.

And, where is WINGNUT? Washing the dog I guess. Ann Cox Chambers: are you listening!

getalife

August 6th, 2011
12:47 pm

Just apologize for this self inflicted downgrade to show us you have a shred of credibility.

We are waiting.

Truth

August 6th, 2011
12:48 pm

Why did Obama vote against raising the debt ceiling when Bush was in office but now you are an idiot of you don’t vote to raise the debt ceiling?

Why are we still in Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya?

Why did Obama extend the current tax rates (They are not Tax Cuts)?

I have learned to respond to a person’s actions not their words and these are the actions of our President.

Jay

August 6th, 2011
12:48 pm

Big Red, the point remains:

Is a 39 percent top marginal tax rate “total confiscation”?

Dave R. - 3k/4k/5k

August 6th, 2011
12:49 pm

“That’s not my rhetoric, Thulsa. That’s the rhetoric of the GOP leader in the U.S. Senate. Take it up with Mitch McConnell if you find that shocking and inflammatory.”

:shock:

Oh my freaking Anthropomorphic Deity, Jay!

50+ Democrats as well as liberal columnists and bloggers can use those terms, and you assign blame to the Senate Minority Leader. :roll:

Gary G

August 6th, 2011
12:49 pm

Dave R @ 12:41.

I agree with you about the loop holes, etc. The rate needs to stay the same, but the government needs to get out of the social planning via the tax code policy. Clean up the code.

But, with the current tax rates (even with or without the change to the loopholes), more than enough revenue will be acheived if the economy starts to grow at a normal rate. The cut in the expenses by the government will increase the availablity of money in the private sector while will increase the economic growth. This growth will put more people to work. This growth in business and lower unemployment will increase revenues to the federal governmetn.

When GW Bush was President, the U.S. took in more revenue than ever before, or since. This was due to the Bush tax cuts that actually increased revenue by $200B each year. it is hard for people to understand how tax cuts will increase revenues (it seems counter intuative), but it is true. Has always been true – it happened when Reagan did it, it happened when JFK did it.

Vinny

August 6th, 2011
12:49 pm

It’s the democrats and Obama’s fault for their out of control spending since they came in power.

It wasn’t a lack of taxes that brought us to this point, it was out of control spending by the democrats.

Checkmate, Jay

DannyX

August 6th, 2011
12:50 pm

Boehner claimed he got 98% of what he wanted. Americans will demand he retreats to 50% of what he wanted. All along the American public strongly supported tax increases. They still do.

Republicans will lose the House in 2012 if they don’t raise taxes.

America Held Hostage….Day 182

Matthew

August 6th, 2011
12:50 pm

Ok, lets increase taxes by asking the bottom 51% that pay no Federal income tax to pay their “fair share”.

That would be fair, wouldn’t it?

Gary G

August 6th, 2011
12:51 pm

JAY…I NEVER SAID .39 WAS TOTAL CONFISCATION…READ WHAT IS WRITTEN BEFORE YOU POST…AND REPOST.

Dave R. - 3k/4k/5k

August 6th, 2011
12:51 pm

“And not some wimply couple of paragraphs thread, but an insightful and challenging multiple paragraph thread.”

Intelligent people would simply call it “fiction”.

Oh, and Jay? Your 12:48 is called “deflection”. Nice try.

Don't Forget

August 6th, 2011
12:52 pm

Jay,
it seems obvious to me that both spending cuts and revenue increases will ultimately be necessary to get us to a more acceptable debt picture.

But the polls seem to suggest that America still wants to have its cake and eat it too. If these observations are correct, wouldn’t it have made political sense for the dems to just go ahead and make some really substantial cuts and let the public start to feel that pain? Sure the pundits would have called it a staggering defeat for the dems but it would have allowed them to lay claim in 2012 that they had done their part and it would have made it clear how severe the cuts would have to be get a handle on the problem. Then they could have run on a platform that if you like those cuts just keep voting republican but if you want REAL fair and balanced throw the republicans out. Have we reached the point that there is no political advantage to putting country ahead of party? If the public doesn’t get a little taste of what the far right wants they might just end up getting the whole meal.

Truth

August 6th, 2011
12:52 pm

Jay:
What about the additional taxes we pay such as FICA or self employment tax, 3% medicare tax, phone tax, gas tax, 6% GA tax, local sales tax, property tax, ad. vol. tax,, AMT, etc.

Do the math a person at the top rate is paying over 50% + in total taxes. The issue is not enough cash flow or revenue, it is management of this revenue. This is why I don’t want to pay a single penny in additional taxes.

Jay

August 6th, 2011
12:52 pm

“We also believe that the fiscal consolidation plan that Congress and the administration agreed to this week falls short of the amount that we believe is necessary to stabilize the general government debt burden by the middle of the decade.”

Jay:
Did you forget this statement? We still did not meet the necessary cuts. Nice try, but it wasn’t just about gridlock. The reality is we have a debt problem that will take this country down if not dealt with. We can’t keep acting like SSI, Medicare, etc. will take care of themselves without any hard changes.Did you forget this statement? We still did not meet the necessary cuts. Nice try, but it wasn’t just about gridlock. The reality is we have a debt problem that will take this country down if not dealt with. We can’t keep acting like SSI, Medicare, etc. will take care of themselves without any hard changes.

I didn’t forget that statement. I embraced it and agree with it. Again, a debt-reduction of $4 trillion — twice what was actually accepted — was put on the table by Obama. It addressed entitlements AND revenue increases, but it was rejected by the GOP because in their eyes this problem is to be solved solely on the backs of the poor and middle class, with no share in the sacrifice from the wealthy.

That is not acceptable.

Gary G

August 6th, 2011
12:53 pm

Agree Matthew.

Everyone who works should pay Income Taxes. I think the annual tax should start at $100, and increase from there.

It is a fact that the bottom 50% uses more government services than the top 50%. they should pay something for it…skin in the game.

BlahBlahBlah

August 6th, 2011
12:53 pm

I’m tired of hearing about “revenues”. Businesses generate revenues. This isn’t a business. It’s government. Governments collect taxes. Grow a set of gonads and just call it “raising taxes”

getalife

August 6th, 2011
12:53 pm

So we have one apology from one con in Florida.

Dave,

Your turn and admit you are not smarter than anybody.

Truth

August 6th, 2011
12:54 pm

Please define wealthy?

Jay

August 6th, 2011
12:54 pm

Dave R, you love that word “deflection” but have no idea what it means. You use it to as a smokescreen to escape any situation in which you have given yourself no other out, which occurs often.

I have addressed the situation head on, as frankly as possible.

Matthew

August 6th, 2011
12:55 pm

“with no share in the sacrifice from the wealthy.”

Jay – are you delusional? The wealthy pay most of the Federal income tax now while the bottom 51% pay NOTHING!!

What is “fair” about that?

Gary G

August 6th, 2011
12:56 pm

Obamas $4 Trillion was not real numbers. That is why no one accepted it. Even Harry Reid (D) cam up with his own plan.

And, the proposed $4 Trillion was the result of TAX INCREASES proposed by Obama that included the reduction or removal of your home mortgage deduction (that would been the death nail in the housing market). It was a disaster, which is why the democratic controled Senate also ignored the Obama plan.

Kamchak

August 6th, 2011
12:56 pm

Drudge trolls

:roll:

Truth

August 6th, 2011
12:56 pm

Jay:
Would you agree with the “Fair Tax”?

Jay

August 6th, 2011
12:57 pm

Ok, lets increase taxes by asking the bottom 51% that pay no Federal income tax to pay their “fair share”.

That would be fair, wouldn’t it?

Matthew, that situation is a consequence of two things: A recession that has cut dramatically reduced income for a lot of Americans, and the Bush tax cuts. If you are arguing that the Bush tax cuts ought to be allowed to end in 2013 for EVERYBODY, I am open to that result.

Will you join me?

Matthew

August 6th, 2011
12:57 pm

Of course he wouldn’t, Truth. Because then Obama’s precious special interest groups wouldn’t have an incentive to donate money to keep him in power.

Jm

August 6th, 2011
12:57 pm

Jay, both parties are responsible. But 2/3 to 3/4 of the budget is democrat initiatives and programs. They won’t cut them. Pelosi has already come out and said her super com appointees must defend Medicare and Medicaid and prevent any changes.

Appointing extremists the way she wants won’t fix the problem. Dems are responsible for 3/4 of the problem.

Recon (2nd.and 3rd.)

August 6th, 2011
12:58 pm

Bad news that helicopter crash in Afghanistan killed 20 SEALS from SEAL team six.

John Konop

August 6th, 2011
12:58 pm

This debate is like 2 spoiled kids having a fight over last piece of cake.

The truth is we have a spending problem, revenue problem and production problem.

Spending Problem:

We went to 2 wars and added Medicare Part D with no money to pay for it. Paul O Neil Treasury Secretary warned the Bush white house that this would hurt the economy and they threw him out.

Obama and congress did not fix the above and added a stimulus package that was used to keep public employees like teachers……employed rather than invest into infrastructure.

Revenue Problem:

Bush and congress lowered tax rates from 18% of GDP from 14% of GDP when we were running surpluses and went on a Paris Hilton style spending spree.

Production Problem:

In last 30 years we have passed poorly negotiated trade deals that allow countries to manipulate currency, no intellectual property rights, workers with limited legal rights paid slave wages……….

The result is we have out-sourced our middle class with manufactory jobs dropping from 30% of all workers to 8% of all workers. This is why real wages are flat to down since we implemented this policy around 30 years ago.

How to fix it:

We need to tackle the entitlement problem, military spending and raise tax revenue by 4 % ie Gang of 6 concepts. We also need to reinvest into our infrastructure ie (Kerry, Hutchison Propose National Infrastructure Bank)

http://www.infrastructurist.com/2011/03/16/kerry-hutchison-propose-national-infrastructure-bank-legislation/

Gary G

August 6th, 2011
12:59 pm

Again, it is fact (as reported by the Congressional Budget Office) that the Bush tax cuts increased revenue to the Government but $200 Billion each year.

Truth

August 6th, 2011
12:59 pm

Jay:
Why not the “Fair Tax”?

No loopholes for anyone, no underground economy, illegals would pay tax, organized crime would pay tax thus creating more revenue for social progams you love.

Jm

August 6th, 2011
12:59 pm

Jay your comments are bunk. Obama threw his own deficit commission plan over the cliff. How obvious does it need to be made to you. Obama is the problem along with congressional democrats.

Matthew

August 6th, 2011
12:59 pm

Jay,

That still would leave 45% of the working populace not paying Federal income taxes, so no I am not with you.

I am for “fairness”. Fairness dictates that ALL should pay income taxes.

getalife

August 6th, 2011
12:59 pm

Kam,

It is sad.

They lost and cost us a decade of growth and take no personal responsibility for their actions like spoiled children.

oldguy

August 6th, 2011
12:59 pm

Jay,
Go off on many tangents recently?
So apparently spending had nothing to do with the downgrade??
Obama’s plan?? Please print the details here___________.
Obama presented NO PLAN! PERIOD! The CBO head stated the obvious “you can’t rate a speach”.
Bottom line: It was the 800 pound gorilla in the room (spending) that caused the downgrade! It was not ALL Obama’s fault ….he just poored gasoline on the spending fire!!
To blame the people who have been trying to stop the crazy spending is like blaming the current disaster in central Africa on the people for not starving to death fast enough!!!
p.s. I suppose taking your argument to its logical conclusion then if BHO had gotten his wish for the debt ceiling to be raised 2+ Trillion without any conditions the S and P people would be all happy!!!
Garbage!!!

Kamchak

August 6th, 2011
1:00 pm

Jay:
Would you agree with the “Fair Tax”?

Scroll up to the top of the page and you will see a 4 part archive on the no FairTax.

Jay

August 6th, 2011
1:00 pm

Gary G, you wrote that “the greatest wish of the left (is) the confiscation of all the money made by the rich.”

No, the greatest wish of the left is to allow a return of the 39 percent tax rate in effect before the Bush tax rates. Show me any liberal or progressive politician who advocates the confiscation of all the money of the rich.

getalife

August 6th, 2011
1:01 pm

Del,

drudge reports 31 but do you think it is right to be talking about downgrades and we are still there losing great Americans and billions of our money?

I think it is ig norant.

Truth

August 6th, 2011
1:02 pm

Kamchak:
I am not following our post

Jay

August 6th, 2011
1:02 pm

Matthew, you fail to understand. The fact that so many Americans do not pay income tax is a direct consequence of the Bush tax cuts. It is the consequence of Bush policies, not anything Obama has done.

Dave R. - 3k/4k/5k

August 6th, 2011
1:02 pm

“Dave R, you love that word “deflection” but have no idea what it means. ”

Actually, I do, as do you since you use the tactic so much.

The original poster was making the point that even if you raised tax rates to 100% on the rich, it wouldn’t pay down our deficit, let alone our debt. YOU went with the “How is 39% total confiscation” crap.

When it was explained to you that the poster never claimed to make the case that 39% was “total confiscation”, rather than admitting you made an incorrect, knee-jerk reaction to his post, you continued the “is 39% total confiscation?” crap.

Maybe because you do it so often it is ingrained in your psyche, but you deflect every time you’re caught in an error.

Gary G

August 6th, 2011
1:02 pm

John Konop

I can agree with everything you said (for the most part since it is much more complicated than that).

We need a business friendly government (reduce the regulations) which becomes more efficient (cut spending) to allow more people to go to work and for companies to become more profitable (increase government revenues).

Jm

August 6th, 2011
1:02 pm

Jay your analysis is all wrong.

If the US had a board of directors, Obama would be fired. The BOD such as it exists, the voters, will fire him in 2012 as they should.

Matthew

August 6th, 2011
1:03 pm

Jay,
Don’t try to change the subject.

When did I say it was anything Obama had done? I stated that all working Americans should pay Federal income tax to support the infrastructure. That would be fair.

Are you with me or not?

Recon (2nd.and 3rd.)

August 6th, 2011
1:04 pm

get,

In addition to the 20 SEALS the chopper’s crew 7 Afghan soldiers an interpreter and a dog handler also died in the crash.

Jay

August 6th, 2011
1:05 pm

“Again, it is fact (as reported by the Congressional Budget Office) that the Bush tax cuts increased revenue to the Government but $200 Billion each year.”

That is blatant, unmitigated nonsense. You come here and belittle the economic understanding of other people while peddling such obviously fraudulent baloney?

Amazing.

Kamchak

August 6th, 2011
1:05 pm

Kamchak:
I am not following our post

Scroll

to

the

top

of

this

page

and

on

the

right

hand

side,

just

below

blogroll

is

a

4

part

archive

on

the

not

FairTax.

Jm

August 6th, 2011
1:05 pm

Jay ask yourself. Would we have been downgraded after this fight if debt was 30% of GDP and our deficit was 1%, not 13%? No. Obama and democrats are the problem. We need long term austerity and that’s not in democrat vocabulary.

killerj

August 6th, 2011
1:05 pm

I love it, thousands of Government jobs lost in the wind! Join the party in the private sector that the “Dems” chose to destroy to keep big government in power,how,s that health insurance putting food on the table now instead of jobs first o”bum”a? You reep what you sew.Go Tea Party.

Dave R. - 3k/4k/5k

August 6th, 2011
1:06 pm

“Matthew, you fail to understand. The fact that so many Americans do not pay income tax is a direct consequence of the Bush tax cuts. It is the consequence of Bush policies, not anything Obama has done.”

:shock:

Yeah, because prior to January of 2001, everybody paid income taxes. :roll:

Jackie

August 6th, 2011
1:06 pm

Nice try to pinit all on the Republicans. However someone has to create conditions that bring the thing to a head. We cannot make the math work now or in the future without taking on the reduction in spending. Even if we raise taxes on the affluent to very high levels it will not add up. The experiments with medicare and medicaid coupled with the gorvernments theft of Social Security funds have virtually bankrupted our country. In the process we have created a large dependent class of people who will punish any politician who trys to solve the problem.

Jay

August 6th, 2011
1:06 pm

I am with you, Matthew. And the way to do that is to allow the Bush tax cuts to expire. Those are the cuts that created the situation that you find so appalling.

You with me?

Gary G

August 6th, 2011
1:07 pm

JAY… you are really unbelievable. Everything is Bush’s fault, even the fact that 50% of the country doesn’t pay taxes.

The fact is that we have a progressive tax system that allows those on the bottome to be free of income tax. The problem is that the democrats have increase that amount over the years to get to about 48% of the people not paying income taxes. The Bush plan added maybe 1%. The rest of the people who don’t pay taxes now are because they are unemployed, so little or no income.

You are right that Obama didn’t add any to the non-paying list by any changes to the tax roles. But, the unemployment rate was less than 8% when he became president and has been in the 9-10% range now. So, I would say he added some unemployeed people to the list.

Matthew

August 6th, 2011
1:07 pm

Jay – So you are in favor of EVERY working American paying 39% income tax?

Jm

August 6th, 2011
1:07 pm

Sidebar- seal team 6 and others in our thoughts.

Jay

August 6th, 2011
1:08 pm

No.

Don’t go moving the goalposts on me now, Matthew. Are you going from “everybody ought to have skin in the game” to “everybody should pay 39 percent?”

Dave R. - 3k/4k/5k

August 6th, 2011
1:08 pm

“Kamchak:
I am not following our post”

Scroll to the top of this page and to the right you’ll find four short stories full of fiction and lies about the Fair Tax written by Jay.

Bruno

August 6th, 2011
1:08 pm

And, you have Bruno? It appears to me blogging all day and night does not equal meeting payrolls, nor planning for your employees retirements (benefits). It equals to stealing from your employer.

Nice try, out of the blue. I sold my business a few years ago. We never had internet at work when I was the boss. As far as “blogging all day and night”, I rarely post during the day, with the exception of the past few weeks, and then only during breaks in the action. You might want to ask a few of your Lib buddies over on the “day shift” how they are able to post all day, every day, for years on end.

Turn in your decoder ring immediately!! ;-)

Kamchak

August 6th, 2011
1:09 pm

…even the fact that 50% of the country doesn’t pay taxes.

Not this crap again.

All consumers pay taxes, sport.

getalife

August 6th, 2011
1:09 pm

We get it cons.

Nothing is your fault and you are never wrong.

Take the day off Jay.

We will deal with these spoiled children.

We will ignore them and put them in time out.

There are no Rep. Micas here.

Jay

August 6th, 2011
1:10 pm

“The problem is that the democrats have increase that amount over the years to get to about 48% of the people not paying income taxes. The Bush plan added maybe 1%”.

Another piece of totally unsupported baloney by somebody who came here lecturing everybody about finance and economics.

Don't Forget

August 6th, 2011
1:10 pm

Matthew

August 6th, 2011
12:50 pm

Ok, lets increase taxes by asking the bottom 51% that pay no Federal income tax to pay their “fair share”.

That would be fair, wouldn’t it?

Mathew, here is the problem with your argument. Lets say we go ahead and raise taxes on the poor, or even the middle class to the point that they provide 50% of government revenue. I picked 50% arbitrarily it could be any percent you choose.

So what happens in the years that follow. If history is any guide, the income of the top earners will rise much faster than that of the middle or lower earners. This will result in the percent of revenue provided by the top earners rising yet again. Wait long enough and we will be right back to where we started. The reason that the top earners provide such a high percent of revenue is that they are the only segment of society that is seeing real gains. The problem is that trickle down is NOT improving the economic well being of everyone as it was supposed to do. Government may be broken but so is American capitalism.

md

August 6th, 2011
1:11 pm

“Again, a debt-reduction of $4 trillion — twice what was actually accepted — was put on the table by Obama. ”

And that proves what exactly??

He also proposed a budget that was defeated by a vote of 97-0…………just because he put it out there doesn’t equate to the Dems accepting it………….

Gary G

August 6th, 2011
1:11 pm

In this conversation, we are talking about income tax. Sale tax is not in dispute since everyone pays it and some of it is actually voted on in SPLOST votes

Billy

August 6th, 2011
1:12 pm

Both parties are guilty of criminal mismanagement of our government. Please understand that we cannot demonize the messengers and just ignore the problem. It is not going away.

Thanks Dems!

August 6th, 2011
1:12 pm

Right out of the liberal playbook. If you do not have a plan or a solution, point fingers at the other guys. Obama will be receiving his pink slip next November, then we can get this in order. I look at this presidency as one big experiment. What would happen if we take a Marxist out of the ‘hood with absolutely no real world experience in anything, and plop him and his family down on 1600 Pennsylvania Ave? Fail.

Gary G

August 6th, 2011
1:12 pm

JAY….show me were I am wrong!

Jm

August 6th, 2011
1:12 pm

Jay s&p also said the proposed revenue increases by dems were meaningless, amounting to 1.5% of GDP while we run a 13% of GDP deficit.

This godawful mess is obama’s fault and his problem. He had every opportunity to fix the real problem after his own committee came out with recommendations. And then he had the gall to throw the gang of 6 under the bus.

He wanted a clean increase. If that had happened, the downgrade would have been worse. In other words the tea party people helped try to solve a problem Obama wanted to ignore.

Jay, in your house of mirrors, you have everything upside down and backwards….

Bruno

August 6th, 2011
1:14 pm

And the way to do that is to allow the Bush tax cuts to expire. Those are the cuts that created the situation that you find so appalling.

Jay–At what point did you agree that everyone should pay more?? It seems to me that you have been just one more voice in the chorus talking about the “tax cuts for the rich” the past few years.

And, BTW, don’t waste your time answering blind ideologues like Matthew. It may play well to the peanut gallery, but you would gain more credibility taking on the heavyweights here more often.

Later, have to go on to my second shift. It will be 28 days in a row for me without a full day off coming this Sunday. Am I working hard enough for you, out of the blue??

Jm

August 6th, 2011
1:14 pm

Jay answer the question: if our debt and deficit weren’t so godawful would we still have been downgraded? You know the answer….

Thulsa doom

August 6th, 2011
1:16 pm

“Did you spend the extra bucks to get the deluxe edition of your Ayn Rand blow-up doll?”

Great example of liberal debate tactics. When the facts aren’t on your side just argue with silliness.

Bruno

August 6th, 2011
1:16 pm

DF–You too, no credit for going after the low-hanging fruit.

Later.

Gordon

August 6th, 2011
1:16 pm

Jay,

I support the idea of letting the Bush tax cuts expire, if it is part of a credible plan to not only get our AAA rating back, but actually move toward a balanced budget in the next 8 to 10 years. This will mean fundamental changes in the major entitlements BEFORE 2013. Put those in place, signed into law, and then the Bush tax cuts can expire. If the cuts are then reversed, the tax cuts come back. If the tax cuts are reversed, the spending cuts are reversed. I am not averse to paying more tax if and only if America faces reality and makes major entitlement reform. Not because I want to hurt poor people, but because ALL people in the nation will be harmed if we don’t.

md

August 6th, 2011
1:17 pm

And Jay, I’ll concede that Pelosi’s statement may or may not have made a difference, but Reid’s plan in the Senate also included no changes to entitlements……………which is exactly what S&P was referring to………………

Gary G

August 6th, 2011
1:18 pm

QUESTION: If you had more expenses than income, what would you do? Would you cut your expenses, do everything you could to pay down your debt, and change your habbits to allow yourself to live on the money you earn (remember you are not the government so you just can take money away from someone else, with out going to jail)?

Or, would you take out another credit card and/or line of credit and keep spending like a drunken sailor (or, for the government, a drunken navy)?

Any responsilble person would do the first option. Why should we demand less from our government?

out of the blue

August 6th, 2011
1:19 pm

This guy relates what Jay is trying to educate you um, um, um …. Bleeps!

Any watch, and learn

http://vodpod.com/search/browse?q=bill%20maher

md

August 6th, 2011
1:20 pm

“If history is any guide, the income of the top earners will rise much faster than that of the middle or lower earners. ”

Compounding interest will do that every time all day long………………that won’t ever change.

stands for decibels

August 6th, 2011
1:20 pm

Both sides are NOT equally to blame.

Jay, it mighta helped if your own media had not “reported” this thing as if they were.

getalife

August 6th, 2011
1:20 pm

Let the man enjoy his weekend cons.

You are wrong and there are consequences for your being wrong.

Own them and go away to time out to reflect on your mistakes.

Thanks for reelecting our President.

yuzeyurbrane

August 6th, 2011
1:21 pm

Jay, I don’t agree with every detail of what you say but overall it is a concise and very accurate analysis. And needed.

Tom

August 6th, 2011
1:21 pm

The “cuts” are not real!!!!! It makes me want to scream to hear that word used. No one is getting “less.” Our pols are unbelievably dishonest in their attempt to pull the wool over the eyes of the people. It is essential that the people rise up and go to the polls in massive numbers to save the country.

Gary G

August 6th, 2011
1:22 pm

Ny the way JAY, I have a degree in Finance. What business degree do you have? I see in your BIO you have a degree in History and Journalism. First rule of writing, write what you know. you clearly don’t know much about finance. If we do not change the spending, the country is going to be broke and unable to pay for any of the liberal programs that you love so dearly.

Dave R. - 3k/4k/5k

August 6th, 2011
1:23 pm

“The problem is that the democrats have increase that amount over the years to get to about 48% of the people not paying income taxes. The Bush plan added maybe 1%”.

Another piece of totally unsupported baloney by somebody who came here lecturing everybody about finance and economics.”

Actually, Jay, the Tax Foundation shows that in 2001 the bottom 50% paid about 3.97% of the total amount of income taxes in the U.S. In 2008, they only accounted for 2.7% of the total income tax revenue.

So your statement decrying the 1% increase due to Bush policies (as the original poster claimed) is pretty much baloney. :D But nothing we haven’t come to expect from you.

http://www.taxfoundation.org/news/show/250.html

Concerned Mother

August 6th, 2011
1:24 pm

Oh please, if you want to put blame where blame is due, all those bozos in Congress and particularly the one in the White House need to be voted out! They all took this country hostage, trying to decide whose sandbox the cat was going to make it. The debt debate was like watching a group of guys trying to out-pee each other.

So out they should go! Because let’s face it, if you or I were to screw up our budget that badly, we’d be living under a bridge with no one to blame but ourselves.

Gary G

August 6th, 2011
1:26 pm

Dave R. - 3k/4k/5k

August 6th, 2011
1:27 pm

“This guy relates what Jay is trying to educate you um, um, um …. Bleeps!”

Ah. The “use a comedian to make a substantive policy point” argument. :roll:

Jm

August 6th, 2011
1:27 pm

Jay why didn’t Obama act on his own deficit commission plan?

Why did he undermine the gang of 6 work by circumventing their efforts by saying he wwas ignoring the gang and his own crew would have a plan?

Why did his plan have 3/4 tax increases and 1/4 spending cuts (per orszag himself)?

Obama sucks.

getalife

August 6th, 2011
1:29 pm

The dumbest people in our country were heard and now we are downgraded.

Lets go back to the smartest Clinton people to clean up their mess again.

Lesson learned.

Dave R. - 3k/4k/5k

August 6th, 2011
1:30 pm

You’re welcome, Gary.

Jay’s kinda like a Klingon Bird of Prey being surrounded by about 6-8 Federation starships, all firing photon torpedoes at his unshielded ship.

And it’s breaking up pretty fast due to structural deficiencies. ;)

Jm

August 6th, 2011
1:31 pm

Oh and by the way Romney stayed quiet so as not to inject election politics into a serious issue. And u want to criticize him for doing this???? After criticizing McCain for trying to get involved during the financial crisis? Ridiculous.

Dave R. - 3k/4k/5k

August 6th, 2011
1:32 pm

“Lets go back to the smartest Clinton people to clean up their mess again.”

Monica Lewinsky? :D

Thulsa doom

August 6th, 2011
1:34 pm

Dave R.,

You hittin em with facts again Dave? They don’t like that. No sir. They don’t like that at all.

Jm

August 6th, 2011
1:34 pm

And the administration mouthpieces have nothing to say apparently. The most embarrassing thing to happen to this country ever. Just beyond ridiculous. How about a little freaking contrition and a statement saying you are going to fix the problem? Depressing.

New potus 2012…. If we aren’t bankrupt first

Dave R. - 3k/4k/5k

August 6th, 2011
1:34 pm

Jm, I’m not buying that totally. I think Romney stayed kinda low on this because he didn’t want what ever happened to get thrown back at him during the campaign. He was hedging his political bets – nothing more.

getalife

August 6th, 2011
1:34 pm

Dave,

You admit you are dumber than the average American?

You don’t have to.

We know.

Dave R. - 3k/4k/5k

August 6th, 2011
1:35 pm

Full photon torpedoes and phasers, Thulsa! :D

Jm

August 6th, 2011
1:35 pm

Erskune Bowles is not some right wing conservative. Alan Simpson is not some tea partied. And Obama completely IGNORED them. Now he is getting his just desserts. This guy has to go….

poison pen

August 6th, 2011
1:35 pm

Jay, If you and the rest of the libs on this site want to give Obama credit for getting Bin Laden, Obamacare, a stimulous,etc’ then at least have the balls to blame him for the economy or lack of it.

It’s Bush’s fault, it’s the repubs fault, it’s the tea parties fault, BULLS**T, Obama is the President and it’s his fault.

Timmy G. just said that we wouldn’t be downgraded and we were, boy! he sure as hell makes me feel warm all over.

Barenaked, is lost also, at least he admits it.

Jay, Obama is DOA, in 2012… so get used to it.

getalife

August 6th, 2011
1:36 pm

For the smarter adults in the room,

Do you think the speaker should resign?

Tom

August 6th, 2011
1:37 pm

Jay, you are such an ignorant douche bag. On another note, China has said that the good ole days of lending US money are over…. http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/08/06/crisis-idUSLDE77504R20110806

The Chinese have actually suggested that we curb entitlement and defense spending, both of which are legitimate suggestions.

But what will people do without their free cell phones, free food stamps, free WIC money, free housing (or subsidized section 8 housing), free welfare money, free lunch and breakfast money at school, free aid for going to school, etc., etc., etc.?

Oh, I know, they’ll either do without or they’ll work for it like everybody else.

Thulsa doom

August 6th, 2011
1:37 pm

“Jay’s kinda like a Klingon Bird of Prey being surrounded by about 6-8 Federation starships, all firing photon torpedoes at his unshielded ship.”

Personally I kinda like the analogy that they have a liberal wall of lies and that we’re lobbing conservative missiles of truth at it. And their wall is made of paper mache.

getalife

August 6th, 2011
1:38 pm

Get lost Tom.

Mark in mid-town

August 6th, 2011
1:38 pm

Jay,
Let’s remember that the so-called Bush tax cuts are set to expire again in 2013. And tax increases due to Obamacare bill are set to take effect as well. So so-called revenue increases are already baked into the pie.

Dave R. - 3k/4k/5k

August 6th, 2011
1:38 pm

From Reuters:

“China tells U.S. “good old days” of borrowing are over”

On Saturday August 6, 2011, 10:23 am EDT

By Walter Brandimarte and Melanie Lee

NEW YORK/SHANGHAI (Reuters) – China bluntly criticized the United States on Saturday one day after the superpower’s credit rating was downgraded, saying the “good old days” of borrowing were over.”

Well if THAT source of dressing down isn’t embarrassing, I don’t know what it.

Jm

August 6th, 2011
1:39 pm

Obama. Not a serious president. Enough said. Time for a new one next year.

pat

August 6th, 2011
1:40 pm

LOL! Yeah, the democrats clearly have been squeaky clean!

This administration has been an economic disaster from day one, it’s time you admit failure.

You were not willing to blame congress in 2008, so why do it now. If you look at the facts, there is enough blame to go to both sides, but the democrats have the senate and the white house. The ruling party is ultimately responsible. Debt ceiling is only one issue, and had the ruling party not held so stubbornly to frivolous entitlements the deal would have been much better.

And at this critical time where is Obama’s leadership? Silent.
Look for a huge shake up in the economic advisory positions.

getalife

August 6th, 2011
1:40 pm

Self inflicted downgrade because the gop listen to spoiled rotten children is very embarrassing for our country.

Never again.

Go away cons.

Jm

August 6th, 2011
1:41 pm

Erskine must be shaking his head at Obama and Washington adams and Jefferson are rolling over in their graves. I honestly feel bad for them.

pat

August 6th, 2011
1:41 pm

Anybody but obama 2012! To stupid to lead since 2008.

Jay

August 6th, 2011
1:42 pm

JAY….show me were I am wrong!

Sure, be glad to.

Let’s start with your assertion that “it is fact (as reported by the Congressional Budget Office) that the Bush tax cuts increased revenue to the Government but $200 Billion each year.”

The CBO made no such claim. If you can cite evidence to the contrary, I’d love to see it.

Let’s look at the actual gov’t revenues from 2001, when Bush took office and implemented his first round of tax cuts, to 2009, when he left office, shall we? (We’ll use inflation-adjusted dollars, to keep things on the up and up):

Gov’t revenue per year:

2001 $2,215 trillion
2002 $2,2028 t
2003 $1,901 t
2004 $1,949 t
2005 $2,153 t
2006 $2,324 t
2007 $2,411
2008 $2,286 t
2009 $1,893 t

It took six years for revenue to recover to 2001, pre-taxcut levels. That recovery was temporary, lasting only two years. And it never increased by $200 billion in any of those years, let alone all or most of them.

Rafe Hollister

August 6th, 2011
1:43 pm

Obama has never seen a cut, other than DOD, that he liked, or a tax increase he couldn’t support. He is still out there on the stump advocating more spending! The first president in the history of the US to sully our credit rating. Are you better off today than you were almost 3 years ago, the late Ronaldo Magnus wants to know.

getalife

August 6th, 2011
1:43 pm

I can see by all the con comments you know you are to blame but not adult enough to admit it.

I see desperation and rightfully so.

You are officially marginalized and will never be heard again.

You deserve it so eat those peas.

Jm

August 6th, 2011
1:43 pm

Obama had a bigger $4T deal with boehner earlier. Then he moved the tax increase goal higher by $400B. Absurd. Vote R 2012. If they screw it up, vote D after that.

pat

August 6th, 2011
1:44 pm

This is obama’s fault…Get over it.

pat

August 6th, 2011
1:45 pm

How’d that stimulus work out fellas? Oh, it failed.

Tom

August 6th, 2011
1:45 pm

Touched a nerve eh “getalife”? You must be one of the parasites of which I speak. You are blinded by an idiotic mindset and your lack of logic is and morality is stunning. The decent and productive and hard working people are tired of you dumb*sses now, and your alternative universe of insanity. Having you people spout your crap is like having to listen to a crazy person babbling. We’ve put up with your kind just to be nice. Seriously. Thats OK until somebody let the inmates run the asylum. What is WORSE is that some idiots actually thought that was a good idea. Remember something…WE pay for crap…not YOU. And WE are tired of it now. The adults are taking over again.

We are tired of watching you focking morons like you destroy the country and then gloat about it. We are tired of listening to you peoples’ STUPIDITY and just pretending that it is “just another viewpoint.” Its not. Its WRONG and everything in the history of man PROVES you are wrong. Our tolerance for you peoples’ theivery and incompetence and STUPIDITY is at an end. You dumbasses are about to be HAPPILY marginalized in the new austerity.

YOU are the problem with the USA. YOU. Not the people insisting upon fiscal responsibility. They are the GOOD people. YOU are the bad people. You convince the good people of that with each passing day. Your kind of “thinking” is done for a loooooong time, no matter how many talking points you get from Olbermann and Maddow and Carney and Krugman.

Thulsa doom

August 6th, 2011
1:45 pm

To add to Tom’s comment I saw where Putin of Russia called us parasites or something akin to parasites. Then I saw the camera footage of him with Obama. Looking at their body language aint no doubt that he considers Obama weak.

I hate to say it but Trump was right in that interview the other night. Business and political leaders around the world are laughing at us and have been for awhile. Wasn’t it the French president who had some unflattering comments about Obama at the European or G12 summit a couple of years ago? And then Chavez and Daniel Ortega had the sheer audacity to dress down the U.S. with Obama at the same venue. This president garners no respect from foreign leaders. I think they’ve been onto something for awhile that the rest of the nation is slow in coming to realize. This guy makes perty speeches but the bottom line is that he is an incompetent.

We elect a guy that had never balanced a business or company budget ever in his life, had zero executive experience in any fashion, then put him in charge of the largest budget in the world, and expect results? No wonder the guy never had any specific proposals and no specific plan to lay out to the country. He had no serious plan because he is wholly incompetent. I have to blame us for electing him as much as I blame him for his incompetence.

Jm

August 6th, 2011
1:45 pm

Jay likes picking on mental midgets. Must be his weight class… :)

stands for decibels

August 6th, 2011
1:46 pm

Jay

August 6th, 2011
1:46 pm

You guys may see yourselves as brave Starship warriors attacking a Klingon vessel.

The rest of us see you as nerds dressed up in cheap, phony Startrek costumes you keep in the basement of your mother’s house, where you live.

Dave R., those Spock ears do nothing for you. Really.

md

August 6th, 2011
1:46 pm

“China bluntly criticized the United States on Saturday one day after the superpower’s credit rating was downgraded, saying the “good old days” of borrowing were over.”

Which is funny in and of itself…….the country that manipulates it’s currency to maintain exports (hence it’s own economic growth) is calling out another…………….and that other just happens to be the one buying all their crap…………

Is that cutting off one’s nose to spite one’s face??

Jm

August 6th, 2011
1:47 pm

I can only pray jay writes what he does for “ratings” purposes….

Thulsa doom

August 6th, 2011
1:47 pm

Tom,

Careful there with the language sir or Jay will ban you.

Kamchak

August 6th, 2011
1:47 pm

I can see by all the con comments you know you are to blame but not adult enough to admit it.

And never will.

poison pen

August 6th, 2011
1:47 pm

getalife

“For the smarter adults in the room,”

I guess that leaves you out.

Jay

August 6th, 2011
1:47 pm

Jay likes picking on mental midgets. Must be his weight class…

jm, you shouldn’t be so hard on yourself.

Dave R. - 3k/4k/5k

August 6th, 2011
1:48 pm

I see that someone has been staring at the bottom of a bottle again.

getalife

August 6th, 2011
1:48 pm

“Fmr. GOP Sen. Alan Simpson Calls Republican Refusal To Raise Revenue ‘Absolute Bullsh it’ | Former GOP Sen. Alan Simpson blasted his intransigent GOP colleagues on the Hill today for failing to reach a deal on the deficit. The blunt-talking co-chairman of President Obama’s bipartisan fiscal reform commission slammed Republicans for kowtowing to Americans for Tax Reform head Grover Norquist (“Republicans can’t be in thrall to him”) and pushed Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner to stand fast on the August 2 deadline. Surveying the lay of the current fiscal land, Simpson said, “We’re at 15 percent revenue, and historically it’s been closer to 20 percent.” He added, “We’ve never had a war without a tax, and now we’ve got two. … Absolute bullsh it.”

A very colorful character and right.

pat

August 6th, 2011
1:49 pm

From your link:
“•The outlook on the long-term rating is negative. We could lower the
long-term rating to ‘AA’ within the next two years if we see that less
reduction in spending than agreed to, higher interest rates, or new
fiscal pressures during the period result in a higher general government
debt trajectory than we currently assume in our base case. ”

“if we see that less reduction in spending than agreed to, higher interest rates,” <- Translation: Quit spending more than you got, because your killing the dollar.

Mark in mid-town

August 6th, 2011
1:50 pm

When has the national msm ever held Democrats accountable for at least 50% of the problems? The answer is never. That’s par for the course and goes with the over-whelming majority of those working in msm consistently voting for democrats. No matter what happened here, loyal foot soldiers such as Jay Bookman were going to spin anything bad as being mostly the fault of the Republicans. That’s just par for the course for our corrupt msm. They feel that their job security (to the extent that it remains) is based on continuing to carry water for Obama and the Democratic Party. While they don’t really feel any job security (who does anymore?), they still hope that if they lose their perch at their current msm outlet, that a George Soros funded group will hire them later on. If they honestly report that Obama never really put anything on the table with real cuts, then they know they can kiss any chance of being hired by a Soros funded group if they lose their current position.

Kamchak

August 6th, 2011
1:50 pm

out of the blue

August 6th, 2011
1:51 pm

Dave R…..Is Bill Maher a “deflction” from your ill conceived notion that republicans, tea partiers, and birthers always know what’s best for you, and me.

When your leaders are the likes of Rush Limbaugh, Grover Norquist, Rupert Murdock, Glenn Beck,
none of whom are elected. Oh did I forget to mention SarahPalin, And fail to see the irony, and actual truth as any logical person should There is no hope for you!

josef

August 6th, 2011
1:51 pm

We can, and no doubt will, go on for endless pages here and across the nation about this topique du jour and will avoid a discussion of the disease itself, just how to treat the symptom. The specialist Dr. Standard and Poor made it pretty clear that while they were most concerned with the symptom, the patient was suffering from a pernicious disease of

“The political brinksmanship of recent months highlights what we see as America’s governance and policymaking becoming less stable, less effective, and less predictable than what we previously believed.”

Both parties are as guilty as sin in the partisanship which is the infection threatening the body whole. This latest from the boil on the b*tt called Washington, is the manifest pain we want treated and now, but even lanced it still does nothing to treat the case of partisanship likely to kill the patient.

While we go about our own version of shaking a chicken bone and chanting some arcane curses/cures like so many shamans, all we have wound up doing is falling prey ourselves to exactly what that petri dish of bacteria called the political establishment want.

The GOP has made it clear they want President Obama gone and will stop at nothing to see to it that that happens in 2012, the consequences be damned. Jay made the point here that they’ve found something that works, and they will use it. No matter the legislative issue, if it comes from the Democrats it will get this reception. Even if it comes from the GOP and the Democrats are behind it, it will get the same treatment.

And the Democrats are right up in there with them, hand in glove. The more the GOP can tie things up with catastrophic outcomes, the happier they will be since those outcomes will provide fodder for their own mills come 2012 when they can run an effective campaign of their own “see there! That’s what you get.” It’s in both sides best interest to keep the partisanship going.

If you don’t believe it, just scroll through this or any public comment forum.

Dave R. - 3k/4k/5k

August 6th, 2011
1:52 pm

Jay, I was simply picking out an analogy that you might understand.

After all, complex concepts are completely lost on you. As are facts, logic, reason and balance.

getalife

August 6th, 2011
1:52 pm

Tom,

See ya.

JKL2

August 6th, 2011
1:52 pm

The obama solution to stop illegal immigration. Make the dollar worth less than a peso. Keep those printing presses rolling big O. You’re the man! Free stuff for everybody…

md

August 6th, 2011
1:52 pm

Interesting how one comment is pulled out of Simpsons many comments……..those in search of the truth can find Simpson blasting both sides…………but those looking for out of context quotes can turn to the above……….

Jm

August 6th, 2011
1:52 pm

In sympathy with obama, he is a liberal in a right of center country. He is stuck between a rock and a hard place. Things will get straightened out in 2012.

Thulsa doom

August 6th, 2011
1:54 pm

NEW YORK/SHANGHAI (Reuters) – China bluntly criticized the United States on Saturday one day after the superpower’s credit rating was downgraded, saying the “good old days” of borrowing were over.”

Well if THAT source of dressing down isn’t embarrassing, I don’t know what it.- Dave R.

Just further evidence of what Trump was talking about. Despite the fact that China would actually be doing us a favor it is interesting the sheer amount of disrespect they are treating us with. Its like a man talking to his child who just blew his allowance and telling him he’s not getting any more money. Same with the disrespect Putin showed us with his parasite comments.

Who woulda thought that in such a short amount of time under this leadership that the once mighty U.S. would be treated in such a humiliating fashion? Who woulda thunk it?

stands for decibels

August 6th, 2011
1:54 pm

nerds dressed up in cheap, phony Startrek costumes you keep in the basement of your mother’s house, where you live.

They’re nowhere near that cool.

anyhow, enjoy the various and sundry c0ck-size proclamations. I’m off to learn whether U2 or the Stones are the greatest band evah.

http://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2011/08/did-u2-just-surpass-the-rolling-stones-as-the-greatest-band-ever/242943/#slide4

Jm

August 6th, 2011
1:54 pm

Jay. Touché

pat

August 6th, 2011
1:55 pm

Bottom line Jay. The democrats are in charge, so ultimately the buck stops with them.

Did you not have a super majority in 2008-2010? If you libs were so economically smart, why didn’t you fix it? If you guy have all the answers, why are we here now?

The truth is that the economic show down of 2011, was cause by the horrible economic policies from 2009 and 2010. Everybody knew it could not continue.

Obama is done. 1 term. Sorry, he has his chance. This was self inflicted.

Tom

August 6th, 2011
1:55 pm

getalife…Shouldn’t you get off the computer at the public library and go back to your section 8 abode? Other people need to use that computer.

Carnivore 69

August 6th, 2011
1:56 pm

Weakest column ever. Trying to pin this on anyone but The Big Spenders (liberals) is shameful. This column is an embarrassment to anyone with a brain.

Calling the kettle black

August 6th, 2011
1:57 pm

Jay Bookman has never been in charge of a budget nor has he ever employed anyone in his entire life.

Bottom line: Jay Bookman is a loser op-ed writer at a failing Atlanta newspaper.

Jm

August 6th, 2011
1:57 pm

Walked into that one….

Dave R. - 3k/4k/5k

August 6th, 2011
1:57 pm

“Dave R…..Is Bill Maher a “deflction” from your ill conceived notion that republicans, tea partiers, and birthers always know what’s best for you, and me.

When your leaders are the likes of Rush Limbaugh, Grover Norquist, Rupert Murdock, Glenn Beck,
none of whom are elected.”

out of the blue, you might be new here; I don’t know. Either that or you’re simply ignorant of who you are posting to.

Either way, for your edification, I am not a Republican nor a Tea Party-er, and have never been a birther. I am a Constitutionalist. You’re clearly not ready to debate that concept.

I do not consider any talk show host, media mogul, nor foundation head my leader. As an individualist, I take no marching orders from anyone.

If you wish to believe an uneducated comedian and his ratings-related rants, that is your weakness of character, not mine.

Kamchak

August 6th, 2011
1:59 pm

The truth is that the economic show down of 2011, was cause by the horrible economic policies from 2009 and 2010.

Thirty years of phlogiston economics, supply-side alchemy isn’t turned around in two years and that makes it, “horrible policies.” :roll:

Everybody knew it could not continue.

Who granted you the authority to speak for, “everybody”?

pat

August 6th, 2011
1:59 pm

Giether’s writing a book! “How to turn the U.S. in to aThird World Country in just 4 Short Years”

Can we at least agree that this moron should be fired?

Droc

August 6th, 2011
2:00 pm

So the deal that Boehner said was 98% of what he wanted gets us a downgrade. McConnell proudly states he’ll hold the economy hostage again. And the Tea Party WANT us to default.

Thulsa doom

August 6th, 2011
2:00 pm

When your leaders are the likes of Rush Limbaugh, Grover Norquist, Rupert Murdock, Glenn Beck,

Aaaaaaah yeah! The Rush, Beck, etc. card.

When the facts aren’t on your side start whining about Limbaugh, Beck,etc.

Tom

August 6th, 2011
2:00 pm

What Jay Bookman and all his little fanboys on this website will never admit, but deep down know is true is that this issue was caused by obama and the democratic senate. The GOP wanted to curb spending, the out of control hemorrhaging of money that we don’t have. Obama’s days of spending like he has a credit card with no limit are over, and the people who actually pay taxes know this, while the idiot liberals will deny, deny deny.

getalife

August 6th, 2011
2:01 pm

So you got us downgraded to end our recovery.

More layoffs and hopefully they are your jobs.

It is what you wanted to “get the President at all costs”. Your leader said so.

Stand up and admit this fact and stop blaming others like cowards.

You wanted it and you got it.

Big Red

August 6th, 2011
2:01 pm

“Is a 39 percent top marginal tax rate “total confiscation”?”

No sir Jay, of course not. That’s obvious. Your point was valid to hyperbole.

In any event, let’s see what none other than Geithner said just four months ago about our credit rating:

http://thehill.com/blogs/on-the-money/budget/156747-geithner-no-risk-that-us-loses-its-top-credit-rating

Dave R. - 3k/4k/5k

August 6th, 2011
2:01 pm

Hiya, josef!

I see that we are on the same page again, you flaming liberal ragpicker, you! :D

Jm

August 6th, 2011
2:01 pm

Of course, turned on it’s head, I do feel sorry for ben stein and some real clear markets journalist who I did successfully fillet. The first when he said in 07 there wasn’t a housing bubble and there was no material subprime problem. The second who claimed china’s economic model was a-ok, a real idiot.

My arguments with Caroline Baum I’d call a draw. She’s smart and nice. Women do seem to be smarter these days…. Obama’s wife while I don’t agree with her philosophically is smarter than her hubby.

Kamchak

August 6th, 2011
2:02 pm

…and the people who actually pay taxes know this…

All kinds of people pay taxes, sport.

josef

August 6th, 2011
2:03 pm

DAVE

That’s Ragpicker with an upper case R. Show a little respect for your new master! :-)

Tom

August 6th, 2011
2:03 pm

All kinds of people pay taxes, sport.

Not income takes, boy.

larry

August 6th, 2011
2:03 pm

Did you not have a super majority in 2008-2010? If you libs were so economically smart, why didn’t you fix it? If you guy have all the answers, why are we here now?

No they did not have a filbuster proof majority . That only lasted from Feb. 2009 to Aug 2009 when Ted Kennedy died.

pat

August 6th, 2011
2:03 pm

Kam, you can’t keep saying ‘Bush did it’ anymore. This is Obama’s failure and his alone. 30 years prior had plenty of economic sucess. And we had a AAA rating the whole time.

You can’t blame Bush, you can’t blame Clinton, you can’t blame Bush Sr. and you can’t blame Reagan.
The President is Barrack Obama and it’s his failure alone.

Dave R. - 3k/4k/5k

August 6th, 2011
2:04 pm

If Kamchak didn’t look up the term “phlogiston economics” and embrace it so, he’d have nothing of significance to post – wait – he STILL doesn’t have anything significant to post. :roll:

Jay

August 6th, 2011
2:04 pm

Tom, FYI, we do request that posters here demonstrate a modicum of respect for each other on this blog. Those who do not are ushered to the exit.

Dave R. - 3k/4k/5k

August 6th, 2011
2:05 pm

Sorry, josef . . . :oops:

Dave R. - 3k/4k/5k

August 6th, 2011
2:05 pm

But did I get the “flaming” part right? :D

pat

August 6th, 2011
2:06 pm

larry, that was just week and you know it. Filibuster proof majority indeed. Every piece of legislation that passed during that time period has and is failing the American people.

Jay

August 6th, 2011
2:06 pm

Off on a Saturday adventure. Keep it clean, please.

pat

August 6th, 2011
2:08 pm

“When you leaders are Rush Limbaugh, Grover Norquist, Rupert Murdock, Glenn Beck”
Oh? What seats were they elected to? What leadership positions do they hold?
Ooooooh, none.
It’s gettin’ silly ’round here.

AmVet

August 6th, 2011
2:08 pm

Good afternoon, all.

I trust that last night’s musical fare was outstanding, as always.

One of the valuable services unwittingly provided by the factually challenged misnamed conservatives here is that it gives the esteemed host an opportunity to provide those facts and the actual data relevant to the topic at hand for the rest of us readers and bloggers.

So to that extent, those of you who are endlessly being corrected, thank you.

Then there are the absurd, utterly childish mystery meats and/or drive-bys like that first 1:57…

larry

August 6th, 2011
2:10 pm

You can’t blame Bush, you can’t blame Clinton, you can’t blame Bush Sr. and you can’t blame Reagan.
The President is Barrack Obama and it’s his failure alone

Yep, he charged all 14.4 trillion dollars all at once.

May i remind everyone that this country has been in debt since the civil war .

woops, wait a minute , i guess Obama is responsible for that too.

oy.

JKL2

August 6th, 2011
2:11 pm

getalife- Stand up and admit this fact and stop blaming others like cowards. You wanted it and you got it.

Couldn’t have said it better myself. Of course you have to remember all the other fingers on you’re hand are pointing at you.

AmVet

August 6th, 2011
2:12 pm

So he has been one of the mental giants of the misnamed conservative movement.

Thirty years and apparently tens of millions of die hard adherents who hang on his every proclamation.

Acknowledged many times by the party leadership as an invaluable asset.

Yet…….it would seem that no con here has every listened to HeadRush nor regards him to have the political status with the neo-cons that he clearly has.

OK.

What next?

George Bush was not a conservative? LOL…

josef

August 6th, 2011
2:12 pm

Without going into the details too much, I got to thinking about that canard of “no taxes.” I ran up a rough tally of what I pay in taxes that apply to all no matter the income level (sales tax, gasoline tax, etc.). It was an eye-opening little exercise. “Those people” are paying a whap in taxes.

Kamchak

August 6th, 2011
2:13 pm

Not income takes[sic], boy.

If you mean “income taxes” then make that clear, sport.

Otherwise you are merely repeating what you’ve been programmed to say.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Kam, you can’t keep saying anymore.

Show me, explicitly where I asserted that, ‘Bush did it’.

Until then I will not defend words that I did not type.

30 years prior had plenty of economic sucess[sic].

Thirty years of cheap money (low interests rates) have led us into repeated boom/bust cycles exacerbated by myopic short term greed.

I would hardly label this type of planning “success.”

Don't Forget

August 6th, 2011
2:14 pm

“China bluntly criticized the United States on Saturday one day after the superpower’s credit rating was downgraded, saying the “good old days” of borrowing were over.”

That’s not all bad news. It’s the unending supply of credit that china has offered that has kept both the current and last administration from pushing for fair trade. If china stops lending, they lose a lot of their leverage against us.

Jm

August 6th, 2011
2:15 pm

Obama’s never managed a budget. What did one expect out of a no show state legislator and 2 year temporary senator? Harvard degree or not, this guy is all fluff no substance. Previous mistake not to be repeated by yours truly. Fool me once…

Dave R. - 3k/4k/5k

August 6th, 2011
2:15 pm

There is a huge difference between “listening” to a talk show host (and btw, knowing that much of what is said is for entertainment purposes) and considering them your “leader”.

But that difference would be lost on those without much reading comprehension.

larry

August 6th, 2011
2:15 pm

And this type of discrimination is not helping our situation at all…

http://www.pbs.org/wnet/need-to-know/the-daily-need/unemployed-need-not-apply/10736/

josef

August 6th, 2011
2:16 pm

DAVE

That’s true! :-)

Kamchak

August 6th, 2011
2:16 pm

I see that I have a cyber stalker.

Dave R. - 3k/4k/5k

August 6th, 2011
2:17 pm

“What next?

George Bush was not a conservative? LOL…”

GWB was a SOCIAL conservative, but not a fiscal one.

TGT

August 6th, 2011
2:17 pm

Take a look at the ratings of all 50 U.S. states (as of Feb. 2010) here:

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2010/02/02/opinion/03schott_ready.html

Notice the only two states with single “A” ratings? CA and IL are as steeped in liberalism as in state in U.S. history. But it’s all the TEA Party’s fault, right?

Jm

August 6th, 2011
2:18 pm

Don’t forget I agree. China was trying to rejigger economics. I’d be ecstatic if they’d stop buying treasuries. They probably won’t though.

Dave R. - 3k/4k/5k

August 6th, 2011
2:18 pm

“I see that I have a cyber stalker.’

No, you just wish you did.

JKL2

August 6th, 2011
2:18 pm

AmVet- George Bush was not a conservative? LOL…

George Bush wasn’t a conservative, that was his biggest problem.

I guess the liberal leaders must be Keith Olberman and Rachel Maddow. We all no obama couldn’t lead his way out of a wet paper bag so he’s nowhere near the top of the list.

Kamchak

August 6th, 2011
2:19 pm

Somebody call the Yerkes primate center, it seems they have lost one of their inmates again.

Jm

August 6th, 2011
2:23 pm

Saturday adventure…. Give my best to the communist party! :) . Or not

Midori

August 6th, 2011
2:24 pm

I can see by all the con comments you know you are to blame but not adult enough to admit it.

I see desperation and rightfully so.

aren’t they pathetically hilarious?

BADA BING

August 6th, 2011
2:25 pm

Why don’t we borrow as much money from China as possible, and then stop taking their calls. It worked for all the deadbeats that owe me money.

Don't Forget

August 6th, 2011
2:26 pm

jm
Will you acknowledge that during a recession tax revenues will decrease (fewer people paying taxes, profits down, growth slowed or stopped) and spending will increase (more people qualifying for unemployment and food stamps) even if you change nothing?

Man Behind the Curtain

August 6th, 2011
2:26 pm

You children go outside and play now.

JohnnyReb

August 6th, 2011
2:27 pm

Jay, it would seem you should be able to keep “revenue” and “tax rates” separate, but like most in the media you use the terms interchangeably. They are not the same. Revenue is money taken in to the US Treasury. It can increase with a tax rate reduction just as it will increase with a tax rate elevation. Republicans have NEVER stated they do not want to raise revenue unless the person speaking made the same mistake in choosing the correct words as did you.

While your ranting to blame Republicans for the credit rating change may rev up your minons. Had the Republicans not made an issue of the debt by using the only tool at their disposal, the debt limit increase bill, the debt limit would have been raised with no spending reductions and the credit rating changed anyway. There was a deal, a big deal, and Obama blew it up when insisting on tax increases. So, go howl to your base and point fingers, but when you leave out important points just to be a partisan hack it diminishes your objectivity and calls into question the validity of your writings.

Dave R. - 3k/4k/5k

August 6th, 2011
2:27 pm

Ah. The “repeat something another poster does because you’re not too bright” response.

Got it.

out of the blue

August 6th, 2011
2:28 pm

Pat .. You are too hilarious!

I posted this…

out of the blue

August 6th, 2011
1:51 pm
Dave R…..Is Bill Maher a “deflction” from your ill conceived notion that republicans, tea partiers, and birthers always know what’s best for you, and me.

When your leaders are the likes of Rush Limbaugh, Grover Norquist, Rupert Murdock, Glenn Beck,
none of whom are elected. Oh did I forget to mention SarahPalin, And fail to see the irony, and actual truth as any logical person should There is no hope for you!

did you not comprehend the part where I said none of whom are elected.

and your goofy response.

“When you leaders are Rush Limbaugh, Grover Norquist, Rupert Murdock, Glenn Beck”
Oh? What seats were they elected to? What leadership positions do they hold?
Ooooooh, none.
It’s gettin’ silly ’round here.”

Darn rights it’s getting silly around here when you, Pat basically re-quote me, and don’t have a clue what you are saying.

getalife

August 6th, 2011
2:28 pm

jk,

Well, the President once again tried to deal with the spoiled rotten children but the dems should be making attack ads on the gop leaders comments of getting what they want and get the President at all costs just to be fair.

I thought he should have listened to President Clinton and Geither and use the Constitution but I like a good fight.

Thomas

August 6th, 2011
2:28 pm

Even if they failed to take the country into default, the Tea Party is encouraged by the fact that they at least got a ratings downgrade. They also exposed a major weakness in our constitutional government. Now it’s evident that a clear path to toppling the government starts in the House of Representatives. If they manage to get 150 more of these malignant apes elected, they can vote for an all-out default. Then they’re free to use their infamous “Second Amendment remedies”. After all, they are better armed than the military. It’s hard to conceive of these traitors winning at the ballot box in 2012, but if the country goes into a depression, a repeat of 1930s Germany is not out of the question.

Dave R. - 3k/4k/5k

August 6th, 2011
2:30 pm

James S.

August 6th, 2011
2:30 pm

These deficits are Obama’s. All of his whiny excuses aside, he has presided over the first downgrade in US credit in history. He thought more government was better government. He thought that regulating and attacking business was good policy. Now he has a mired down, slow growth hopleless economy…and he deserved the blame.

Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)

August 6th, 2011
2:30 pm

Well, we’ll be OK if we get Those People off of the dole, put the geezers back to work, stop paying people not to work, and get the gays out of our schools. We been trying to tell you for years. I hope you’ll listen when you see your credit card rates shoot up and you can’t get a truck loan.

Oh! And this ain’t the fault of us Tea Party people. If the rest of us lived like the guvmint does, we’d be flat busted and not have a pot to pee in. Perry-Bachmann 2012. If we can’t put the needle to the gays we can at least pray them straight.

Kamchak

August 6th, 2011
2:31 pm

Ah the “hoist by my own petard and I don’t like it” poutrage.

Got it.

getalife

August 6th, 2011
2:31 pm

“aren’t they pathetically hilarious?”

Hilarious yes but the outcome of their actions will lose more jobs.

St upid and dangerous.

Joe

August 6th, 2011
2:31 pm

Jay this tripe is completely laughable. You actually have the gall to blame Republicans for this. All I know is this has never happened in our nation’s history and it happened on Obama’s watch. He has been a miserable failure and people like you still try and give him cover. Laughable… The dem party had a super majority for 2 years and have 2/3 majority now. But it’s still Republicans fault? Or maybe its George Bush’s fault? You fruits on the left are beaming in from outer space. If Obama and the far left controlled dem party had passed Cut, Cap, & Balance this wouldn’t have happened. Plain and simple. S & P acknowledged that in their reasoning behind the credit downgrade for the most part. Face facts Jay. Obama and his far left policies have been a disaster and things certainly won’t get any better until he no longer occupies the WhiteHouse….How do you honestly keep your job in the bright red state of Georgia?? Tucker is obviously part timing it since we hardly ever hear any lunacy from her much anymore.

Dave R. - 3k/4k/5k

August 6th, 2011
2:32 pm

“I thought he should have listened to President Clinton and Geither and use the Constitution but I like a good fight.”

Yeah, listen to two people who can’t practice law about a legal decision. :roll:

Is this what passes for intelligence in your world, getaclue?

getalife

August 6th, 2011
2:34 pm

dave,

Listen to the people that saved your collapse.

Looks like it will return so you should get a job to help your wife out leech.

1811/0311

August 6th, 2011
2:35 pm

Yes ……………. some Republicans need to go but when are you libs. going to admit that Obama needs to go ?

Never.

And that’s why you and I will always be at odds.

Atlanta 1

August 6th, 2011
2:35 pm

Oh please… Both parties have had a chance to reduce the debt. To try and put this on the Republicans today is nothing short of laughable.

You took a BIG TIME credability hit today sir.

JohnnyReb

August 6th, 2011
2:35 pm

Joe @ 2:31 – Tucker, as we speak, is likely busily writing a piece that somehow turns the credit rating change into something racist caused by old white men!

getalife

August 6th, 2011
2:36 pm

Okay, who wanked Scout’s name?.

Scout is never honest about his failed party.

larry

August 6th, 2011
2:37 pm

So this wasnt political ?? Hmmmmm……………. I beg to differ……….

On July 21, 2010 President Obama signs Dodd-Frank into law. Prior to Dodd-Frank, the courts found that credit ratings are expressions of opinion that were protected under the first amendment, subject to a demonstration of actual malice:

The Dodd-Frank Financial Reform Act stripped away those protections, so that CRA’s were now subject to the same expert liability as an auditor or securities analyst, and required only a “knowing” or “reckless” state of mind for liability, rather than proof of scienter. It also repealed Section 436 of the Securities Act of 1933, which granted “safe harbor” for ratings, which were part of a prospectus.

Which, for obvious reasons, made the ratings agencies extremely nervous.

In October 2010 S&P issued its first threat to downgrade US debt: “If the U.S. government maintains its current policies for the next 40 years in the face of rising health care and pension spending pressure, it is unlikely that Standard & Poor’s Ratings Services would maintain its ‘AAA’ rating on the U.S.” The report paints a target on the back of Social Security and Medicare, says nothing about the wars, the Bush tax cuts, private health care costs or the absurdity of 40 year projections.

Dave R. - 3k/4k/5k

August 6th, 2011
2:37 pm

“You took a BIG TIME credability hit today sir.”

To be fair, Jay’s contract with the DNC probably calls for him getting out their talking points within an hour of receiving them, Atlanta. ;)

eloc35

August 6th, 2011
2:38 pm

Why didn’t the democrats do something about this when they had majority of the power for about 2 years. You can’t tell me they didn’t see this coming.

Disgusted in Atlanta

August 6th, 2011
2:39 pm

…At this point in my life, (64), I had always thought that I would be preparing for retirement, (66), however, I’m forced to accept that fact that I’ll continue to work until I’m 68 or older, in order to maximize my Social Security benefit. I’m sure American’s at dinner tables all over this great country of our’s are having the same conversation and considering the same options as I am.
What breaks my heart the most is my fear that my three wonderful grandson’s will never be able to have the same opportunities that I have enjoyed (i.e. a college education, decent job opportunities, and a stable, thriving economy). Will the electorate continue to tolerate such political grandstanding by members of ANY party! I’m personally ‘FED-UP!!!’ with all my elected representatives, and I’ve never been more motivated to throw all the louts out and start over….I’m convinced that we must have term limits for all elected reprsentatives, & I’m willing to vote for anyone that feels the same way.

Left wing management

August 6th, 2011
2:40 pm

Mitt Romney: perhaps the biggest scumbag ever to make that slow slither towards the White House.

A pure black hole instead of a soul.

getalife

August 6th, 2011
2:41 pm

Where are the real Americans?

What happened to country first?

“We got 98% of what we wanted so I am happy”

These are the gop leaders words and they must resign .

Make the attack ads dems or you are too weak to govern too.

“We want to get the President as a one term President at all costs”

AmVet

August 6th, 2011
2:41 pm

The Manteats in Black is a de facto Republican Party *leader* who has enormous sway on party ideology and specific polices.

The con leadership values his knowledge on everything from volcanoes as the source of global climate change to every are of policy.

Other than with the ignorantly obstinate this is not eve debatable. What do es one have to do tro out the dozens and dozens of quotes that corroborate it?

And only the most talented of back pedalers and the sheep and guppies, especially those who laughably feign not being Republicans are willfully stupid on the matter…

larry

August 6th, 2011
2:43 pm

Interesting……………………

But perhaps the biggest thing that happened on April 13: A bipartisan study on the financial crisis from the Coburn-Levin Senate Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations released a report saying the credit ratings agencies were a “key cause” of the financial crisis. They issued a 650 page report, which included the following recommendation (p. 16):

The SEC should use its regulatory authority to facilitate the ability of investors to hold credit ratings agencies accountable in civil lawsuits for inflated credit ratings, when a credit rating agency knowingly or recklessly fails to conduct a reasonable investigation of the rated security.

Two days later, David Beers reached out to Undersecretary Goldstein to let Treasury know that the Standard and Poors committee has changed its outlook to “negative.” On April 18: Standard and Poors issued press release downgrading the outlook for US sovereign debt from stable to negative and giving a 30% chance of a ratings downgrade from AAA to AA.

larry

August 6th, 2011
2:48 pm

All of this from naked capitalism.com ………………. This is very interesting and it shows that Standard and Poors have their own agenda.

It’s becoming more and more obvious that Standard and Poor’s has a political agenda riding on the notion that the US is at risk of default on its debt based on some arbitrary limit to the debt-to-GDP ratio. There is no sound basis for that limit, or for S&P’s insistence on at least a $4 trillion down payment on debt reduction, any more than there is for the crackpot notion that a non-crazy US can be forced to default on its debt.

Whatever S&P’s agenda, it has nothing to do with avoiding default risks or putting the US on sound fiscal footing. It appears to be intertwined with their attempts to absolve themselves from responsibility for their role in the 2008 financial crisis, and they are willing to manipulate not only the 2012 election but the world economy to escape the SEC’s attempts to regulate them.

It’s time the media and Congress started asking Standard and Poors what their political agenda is and whom it serves.

JKL2

August 6th, 2011
2:49 pm

getalife- Well, the President once again tried to deal with the spoiled rotten children but the dems should be making attack ads on the gop leaders comments of getting what they want and get the President at all costs just to be fair.

I guess you were sleeping during the 8 years Bush was president (or living somewhere that didn’t have electricity that kept you from listening to any news media). Obama has gotten everything he’s wanted and has a happy news media to cheer him on every step of the way. The problem is you elected a total incompetent and are now looking for any excuse when faced with that realization.

Don't Forget

August 6th, 2011
2:50 pm

“We got 98% of what we wanted so I am happy”

And yet we still got downgraded. Are we to believe that it was that 2% they didn’t get that caused the downgrade?

getalife

August 6th, 2011
2:51 pm

Dow loses another 1000 points next week.

More layoffs are coming .

Was it worth it cons?

Tommy Maddox

August 6th, 2011
2:52 pm

Gee:

It only took seven months for the Republicans controlling only one House of Congress to destroy the country? Really?

Y’all come right out of a comic book.

Define Rich

August 6th, 2011
2:53 pm

blah blah blah…. another chance for the Great Bookman to blame everything on repubs and yammer like a moron – tempest in a teacup…. big freaking deal. You really think the world is going to stop trusting the US economy? THE LARGEST in the world? blah blah blah… I know why you write for the “paper” — not like you could make it doing anything else….

JKL2

August 6th, 2011
2:54 pm

left wing- Mitt Romney: perhaps the biggest scumbag ever to make that slow slither towards the White House.

I thought he was your boy since he’s the poster child for obamacare? (you remember, that thing that has ruined Massachesetts you’re trying to inflict on the whole country)

Kamchak

August 6th, 2011
2:55 pm

Sock-puppet parade.

Gary G

August 6th, 2011
2:56 pm

Jay

August 6th, 2011
1:42 pm
JAY….show me were I am wrong!

Sure, be glad to.

Let’s start with your assertion that “it is fact (as reported by the Congressional Budget Office) that the Bush tax cuts increased revenue to the Government but $200 Billion each year.”

The CBO made no such claim. If you can cite evidence to the contrary, I’d love to see it.

Let’s look at the actual gov’t revenues from 2001, when Bush took office and implemented his first round of tax cuts, to 2009, when he left office, shall we? (We’ll use inflation-adjusted dollars, to keep things on the up and up):

Gov’t revenue per year:

2001 $2,215 trillion
2002 $2,2028 t
2003 $1,901 t
2004 $1,949 t
2005 $2,153 t
2006 $2,324 t
2007 $2,411
2008 $2,286 t
2009 $1,893 t

It took six years for revenue to recover to 2001, pre-taxcut levels. That recovery was temporary, lasting only two years. And it never increased by $200 billion in any of those years, let alone all or most of them.

JAY, Stepped out for a bit, but came in to see your attempt to prove me wrong.

First of all, checking the math, from 2004 to 2005, the revenue did increase by over $200B, and the following year by almost $200B.

Now for the complicated part, and I wasn’t clear in my statement, the CBO (or another agency that I may read as the source) said that $200B was added to the revenue each year that wouldn’t have otherwise been there.

What is collectively known as the Bush tax plan was passed in two parts – one in 2001 and the other in 2003. Since a tax change will effect the actions of the people after implemented, it takes time for the effects to be seen. So, you need to look at the base line of 2003 ($1.90T) and 2004 ($1.949. Revenue jumped $200B in 2005 and almost anther $200B in 2006. It went up more in 2007 before starting to decline in 2008 because of the start of the rescession.

I understand this to be an argument that is hard for either side to prove since the numbers are buries in really big numbers. But, in 2007, the Bush government took in a record amount of revenue while under the Bush Tax cut period. The money in the private sector added wealth which increases tax revenue. The facts are in the chart you provided…you just have to know how to read it.

vuduchld

August 6th, 2011
2:56 pm

Funny, I was in Montreal, Quebec this week and got to view the “lower 48″ from a different perspective. While I saw the people in Montreal happy as larks, living their lives to the fullest. I saw our nation as one bumbling, stumbling idiot, trying to wake up from a drunken stupor. I find it funny that we heard NOTHING from Romney until after the fact. Isn’t this what Teabeggers do, cause death, chaos, destruction and mayhem, then blame it on someone else. I also think about you pitiful Jawjians, how you continue to vote in and coddle the same nincompoops into office and wonder why things have gotten worse in your pathetic state. Well, look in the mirror, the problem is YOU! I visited Atlanta last month, the first time since I left 2 years ago. What I saw was a depressed, beaten down bunch of zombies. Why are you people depressed? You got what you wanted, a bankrupt gubner, a red state and no more illegal immigrants. Can’t blame liberals or illegals no more. all’s left is YOU and only YOU!! Look into the mirror and accept that fact that you people are nothing but failures. Also accept the fact that people like me are sick and tired of “helping” people like YOU. Teabeggers excel at death, chaos, mayhem and destruction. When you dumb Jawjians begin to realize that basic fact, then you’ll clamour for change. But, until then, continue to wallow and fester in your own ignorance.

clark kent

August 6th, 2011
2:56 pm

Why do you hate America so much Jay?

Paul

August 6th, 2011
2:56 pm

Afteroon, AmVet

Was doing a bit of research and came across this bit about General Merrill McPeak, former Chief of Staff of the USAF. As an AF vet, I thought you’d appreciate it. Especially when it comes to doing battle with chickenhawks and armchair warriors who defend the Bush foreign policy to the hilt and denigrate Sen Kerry.

It’s from Wikipedia, but it’s a good and accurate summation:

“In 1996, McPeak served as Oregon state chairman for the Bob Dole for President campaign. During the presidential election of 2000 McPeak endorsed George W. Bush and served as co-chairman of Oregon Veterans for Bush.[4]

As the military and foreign policy of the Bush administration coalesced, however, McPeak expressed strong objections, especially with regard to the 2003 invasion of Iraq.[5] McPeak later openly campaigned for Howard Dean’s nomination, and when Dean withdrew, acted as an adviser for the John Kerry campaign. He was also one of twenty-seven signatories to the statement of the “Committee of Diplomats & Commanders for Change” calling the Bush Administration a failure at “preserving national security” and calling for Bush not to be re-elected.[citation needed]

McPeak worked as a co-chair on Barack Obama’s presidential campaign during the 2008 United States presidential election.[6]”

JKL2

August 6th, 2011
2:57 pm

getalife- Make the attack ads dems or you are too weak to govern too.

Is the cloud beginning to lift a little? Yes, they are too weak to govern. Finally something we can agree on. Now let’s work together to get rid of all the bums next year, starting with the scared little boy hiding in the corner.

Dave R. - 3k/4k/5k

August 6th, 2011
2:58 pm

“The Manteats in Black is a de facto Republican Party *leader* who has enormous sway on party ideology and specific polices.

The con leadership values his knowledge on everything from volcanoes as the source of global climate change to every are of policy.”

Why don’t you just type “Cons are too stupid to think for themselves” and save you some time, AmVet?

It’s all you’ve got anyway.

getalife

August 6th, 2011
3:02 pm

I have never seen this much con desperation since the election of the President.

You know you are wrong, the desperation shows it.

Take it back over to the con blogs because you are done here.

Not even your party will listen to you anymore.

See ya.

Michael

August 6th, 2011
3:03 pm

It appears that the controlling block in the house of representatives cannot vote, unless they get the approval of a private lobbyist – Norquist. He is in a nice position, since he can control the vote, but he has no responsibilities to anyone other than his donors. I wonder how they will get the money to the congressman from Illinois so he can take care of his past due child support “privately”.
This problem will not be solved until congress takes responsibility for its actions.

josef

August 6th, 2011
3:03 pm

Enter your comments here

getalife

August 6th, 2011
3:04 pm

“This problem will not be solved until congress takes responsibility for its actions.”

I agree.

The gop leaders should resign.

josef

August 6th, 2011
3:05 pm

oops…Freudian slip!

Vuduchile…

You and your type of ignorance is a fundamental part of the problem in the empire as a whole…

Jay

August 6th, 2011
3:05 pm

Did you go out and rent a cherry-picker while you were gone, Gary?

The 2005 figure that you are bragging about remains $82 billion BELOW the starting point of 2001 revenue, before the tax cuts began. How can you possibly claim it increased revenue when revenue fell?

You cannot.

And again, I’m ready to see that CBO report whenever you produce it.

JKL2

August 6th, 2011
3:05 pm

Don’t forget- Are we to believe that it was that 2% they didn’t get that caused the downgrade?

We were going to get downgraded anyway because of our enormous debt. This is just something to slow the tide. If obama had his way, we’d already be a single “A” pushing for a “B” by now.
California can only dream of being in as good of shape as Greece is someday.

Sid Farcas

August 6th, 2011
3:05 pm

Lets all take the tune “franks & beans” and chage it to “hope & change”. Franks & beans is what many of us are eating with obozo’s hope and change. Worse President since Peanuthead Carter.

pat

August 6th, 2011
3:06 pm

“S&P staked out the most hawkish position of the agencies in the recently concluded debt-ceiling debate. On July 14, S&P said it would take $4 trillion in deficit reduction over a decade for the U.S. to secure its AAA rating. The deal signed into law this week achieves, at best, $2.1 trillion in deficit reduction, according to estimates from the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office.”

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/sp-said-to-back-away-from-us-downgrade-2011-08-05

getalife

August 6th, 2011
3:07 pm

jk,

Did you see the President and his pit bull Lahood win the FAA battle?

This is the way forward.

I love fighters.

JKL2

August 6th, 2011
3:08 pm

kamchak- Sock-puppet parade.

Is that your weekend adventure? Can we all come watch, or are you the only one allowed in your Mom’s basement?

Robert Leroy Parker

August 6th, 2011
3:12 pm

Interesting, nowhere in the statement did I see Obamas name mentioned, yet like clockwork the sheep come out with their Obama bleeting. More interesting is that I did see the Republicans mentioned specifically in the statement from the S & P, and the sheep STILL came out with their Obama bleeting.

Blue Man on a ed Island

August 6th, 2011
3:13 pm

You are all missing the real problem by focusing on Ds and Rs. The problem in this country can be summed up in two words………Baby Boomers.

The entirety of the boom generation can be summed up by greed, selfishness and a willingness to do anything to get ahead despite the consequences to others. Think about who is running the country right now politically….the Baby Boomers. Think about who, for the most part, are in leadership positions at most banks, large corporations, etc..again Baby Boomers.

It’s hard to believe the children of the Greatest Generation could turn out to be the worst one but that is exactly what happened. They all got theirs and now their big focus is to make sure the rest of us keep paying for it while losing out on our own future. They mortgaged this country to ensure their own security and prosperity and now they expect us all to keep paying for them while giving up all the programs they currently enjoy. Cut education funding, we already got ours. Cut Medicare and SS, but only for those younger than us.

Baby Boomers….that’s the problem. They suck.

josef

August 6th, 2011
3:13 pm

JAY
So, how did the adventure go?

Midori

August 6th, 2011
3:14 pm

cause that’s all they’ve got, Robert.

someone needs to press their reset keys.

Thulsa doom

August 6th, 2011
3:14 pm

Thirty years of phlogiston economics, supply-side alchemy isn’t turned around in two years and that makes it, “horrible policies.”

There we have it. The phlogiston economics card for the 2nd or 3rd time today. With that we need a comparison of supply side economics vs Keynesian economics from 2 presidents who inherited bad recessions.

Lets see now.

Reagan’s economic growth at this point in his 1st term 7 % growth
Obama’s economic growth at this point in his only term 1% growth

Yep. The facts are in. Supply side wins over Keynesian economics.

JUST THE FACTS MA’AM.

JKL2

August 6th, 2011
3:15 pm

getalife- “This problem will not be solved until congress takes responsibility for its actions.” I agree.

This coming from someone who’s presidential motto is “It Bush’s fault” Yes, PLEASE give us all a lesson on taking responsibility. sorry if this is hard to read but you’re making me cry I’m laughing so hard…

Jay

August 6th, 2011
3:16 pm

Got cut short by issues beyond my control, Josef.

Try again tomorrow.

josef

August 6th, 2011
3:16 pm

Blue Man

Are you a Boomer? If you are, you’re part of the problem as you fairly succinctly outlined it. I am and I am a part of the problem.

James

August 6th, 2011
3:18 pm

Hope and change for America!

josef

August 6th, 2011
3:19 pm

JAY

Too bad. Mine for today, too. Of course, tomorrow a.m. is the weekly meeting of my own Ragpickers cell…hopefully this won’t be one of the topics to be drawn from the fedora…

out of the blue

August 6th, 2011
3:20 pm

A visionary who had it all to be our next president, and who lost his life way to much early, and left this country with a huge void to fill. And so it came to pass Nixon (I am not a crook) and his slimy VP who was even a bigger crook became president and VP. Then hapless Gerald Ford took office
who pardoned Nixon, then on again with the sorriest politians/crooks ever. Gee is it any wonder this country is soooooo focked up?

A dedication to Bobby F Kennedy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hqDLN_oLqlk&NR=1

Blue Man on a Red Island

August 6th, 2011
3:21 pm

Josef – I am not, I was born in the 70s and am considered part of Generation X.

My parents are boomers, one is a D and the other is an R. They are divorced, both think they know all the answers and neither of them are open to opinions that don’t 100% back up their preconceived notions.

In other words, typical Boomers.

getalife

August 6th, 2011
3:21 pm

“More Than 20 Navy SEAL Team 6 Members Lost In Afghan Helicopter Crash.. Unit Carried Out Mission To Kill Osama Bin Laden” Aol.

A major one two hit to our country.

Bad news comes in threes.

The stock market drop will be the third.

Devastating to say the least.

Dave R. - 3k/4k/5k

August 6th, 2011
3:22 pm

“Interesting, nowhere in the statement did I see Obamas name mentioned, yet like clockwork the sheep come out with their Obama bleeting. More interesting is that I did see the Republicans mentioned specifically in the statement from the S & P, and the sheep STILL came out with their Obama bleeting.”

Teh stoopid. It burns. :roll:

Someone doesn’t understand that the term “the administration” is focusing on the current President, and that the term “both parties” means – well – both political parties.

JKL2

August 6th, 2011
3:25 pm

getalife- I’ll never say anything bad about Ray Lahood. He’s done alot of good things for me(I am an IL resident after all). The pit bull is actually his secretary Shirley. She’s the one who runs his operation.

obama, on the otherhand, is just another Chicago gangster who should be looking for a jail cell next to his good friends Tony Rezco and Rod Blagojavich.

Dave R. - 3k/4k/5k

August 6th, 2011
3:26 pm

Let’s see if getaclue gets the message from S&P (Yeah, I know I’m asking a lot here).

Getaclue, what specifically do you want Hope & Incompetent ™ to “fight for”?

Brosephus

August 6th, 2011
3:27 pm

Jay

I think you could put this up for a blog post, and somehow it would still devolve into Left/Right..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tmnBN9JHd60

No need to point fingers this time because both sides are at fault. It takes two to tango, so neither party is innocent of cutting revenue or increasing spending over the past 30 years. We need to do the opposite to get things back under control, but there are two problems sitting in the way. First, you have a party who’s ideology is set against revenue increases, especially considering that some have signed pledges to never vote for any increase period. Second, we don’t have the industrial base to create jobs here anymore. Had the dipsh*t Dems and Repubs actually did what they campaigned on and worked to create jobs, we would be in much better shape to cut spending and we’d have increased revenues just by more people working.

However, since the Dems went all out for Healthcare, and the GOP returned serve by going ape shiite crazy for budget cuts, the American people have to suffer in multiple ways. We face a possible interest rate increase that could make things more expensive. We also still have millions without a job, so for them, things would be great if they only had to worry about expensive things. Thanks to all you voting Americans, you finally managed to throw the baby out and kept the water in the bathtub.

getalife

August 6th, 2011
3:30 pm

“Getaclue, what specifically do you want Hope & Incompetent ™ to “fight for”?”

Raising revenue on the wealthy silly.

Try to keep up by listening to him.

I know you think you are smarter but that lie has been debunked over and over and over and over and……

Don't Forget

August 6th, 2011
3:30 pm

JKL2

August 6th, 2011
3:05 pm

Don’t forget- Are we to believe that it was that 2% they didn’t get that caused the downgrade?

We were going to get downgraded anyway because of our enormous debt. This is just something to slow the tide.

So did congressional republicans WANT the downgrade? or did they not realize something that you claim to have known?

Midori

August 6th, 2011
3:30 pm

Teh stoopid. It burns.

don’t they have something for that at WalMart?

Dave R. - 3k/4k/5k

August 6th, 2011
3:32 pm

Put josef, Brosephus and me in charge and we’d have this country fixed in about 6 months – tops! :D

Thulsa doom

August 6th, 2011
3:33 pm

Kamchak

August 6th, 2011
2:55 pm
“Sock-puppet parade”

When none of the facts are on your side jest pull the ole sock puppet card. Sooooooo predictable.

Dave R. - 3k/4k/5k

August 6th, 2011
3:34 pm

I knew it would be a waste of time. (sigh)

Brosephus

August 6th, 2011
3:35 pm

Dave

I don’t think they want me anywhere near the controls…

getalife

August 6th, 2011
3:35 pm

jk,

Of course you will not say anything bad about LaHood because he is a republican.

He called his party terrorists.

He won and the kicker is when wolf tried to get him to apologize he told him no.

Loved it.

josef

August 6th, 2011
3:35 pm

Blue Man

Okay, Sonny Boy :-) , you’re my own kids’ age. Just the same as every generation before or since, each generation blames the one before and usually not without some validity. All too often, though, we don’t credit them with their successes.

I am old enough to remember the world before the Boomers came of age. We’re leaving you with some good things, too. At the risk of bringing out ME with her epiphany at the water fountain, I’m old enough to remember legal segregation as the daily reality. I am old enough to remember when a woman’s place was slinging her t*ts over a hot stove. I am old enough to remember when being gay was a prison sentence. I am old enough to remember the Cuban missile crisis. I am old enough to remember share cropping and the conditions of rural Appalachia. I am old enough to remember black listing of artists and performers. That world of the Greatest Generation was not without its flaws in what it left for us Boomers to deal with.

And that consumerism of your parents’ generation was certainly a part of the inheritance of the Greatest Generation who, having gone through the Depression and WWII, wanted nothing more than the good life for themselves and their kids. They were tired of thinking. I used to blame them in my youth. The older I got and the more I learned, the more I understood.

The day will come, and there’s not much you can do about it, when your own progeny will blame you for the mess you’re leaving them, and you will leave them a mess. Just make sure that that’s not ALL you leave them.

As the Good Book says, “one generation passeth and another taketh its place.”

You s

Janney

August 6th, 2011
3:36 pm

Dave R – Bill Maher graduated from Cornell; he is hardly “uneducated”

Gary G

August 6th, 2011
3:37 pm

JAY,,

Again, read the post before responding.

The full collection of Bush tax cuts were passed in 2003, not 2001 (only part of it was). And, it takes time for the people to adjust to the results of the tax cuts. Generally speaking, it takes a year after tax policies to take effect for the results to be seen. Since the tax cuts were passed in 2003, the effects will not be realized until 2004-5. That is were you see the increases.

And, since we don’t live in a vacuum, not all things clearly add and subtract in the final numbers. The effects of 9/11 reduced revenue for 2001 and 2002, and greatly slowed the econonmy. Also, remember the Dot Com crash in 2001 helped to reduce tax revenue to the government.

All these moving parts makes it hard to clearly point to the numbers and say this is because of that.

getalife

August 6th, 2011
3:37 pm

dave,

I agree an honest debate with you will never happen so it is a waste of time.

I will continue to call out you being wrong all the time and pretending to be smarter than others though.

vuduchld

August 6th, 2011
3:38 pm

@josef gobbels

You cna rant all you want. Look at the latest unemployment numbers for Atlanta and Jawja, then look at yourself in the mirror and take comfort in knowing that your just another Teabegger maggot.

Midori

August 6th, 2011
3:38 pm

Yahoo News: “America’s credit rating-intentionally sabotaged by Congressional Republicans”

…………..

But that doesn’t mean we should ignore S&P’s Friday evening shot across the bow. In downgrading the U.S.’s credit rating, S&P points out what has long been obvious: Washington’s inability to come to an agreement on how to close the large fiscal gaps that have emerged since the recession began is troubling. Recent events have sapped the agency’s confidence that the government can and will do what is necessary to align revenues with spending commitments. And it’s difficult to escape the conclusion that America’s credit rating was intentionally sabotaged by Congressional Republicans.

…………..

But Congressional Republicans deserve much more of the blame. For this calamity was entirely man-made — even intentional. The contemporary Republican Party is fixated on taxes. It possesses an iron-clad belief that the existing tax rates should never go up, that loopholes shouldn’t be closed unless they’re offset by other tax reductions, that the fact that hedge fund managers pay lower tax rates than school teachers makes complete sense, that a reversion to the tax rates of the prosperous 1990’s or 1980’s would be unacceptable.

MORE:
http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/daniel-gross/u-credit-ra…

Gary G

August 6th, 2011
3:39 pm

See this chart that shows the growth of revenue to the government under the Bush admin. Explain how it grew so much while Bush was president with his evil tax cuts.!!!! http://www.usgovernmentrevenue.com/downchart_gr.php?year=2000_2010&view=1&expand=&units=k&fy=fy11&chart=F0-total&bar=0&stack=1&size=l&title=&state=US&color=c&local=s

Dave R. - 3k/4k/5k

August 6th, 2011
3:39 pm

“Bill Maher graduated from Cornell; he is hardly “uneducated””

Nor does a degree make you “educated”.

getalife

August 6th, 2011
3:39 pm

vuduchld ,

josef is a lib.

JKL2

August 6th, 2011
3:40 pm

Don’t forget- So did congressional republicans WANT the downgrade? or did they not realize something that you claim to have known?

Only the libtards in charge were wanting the downgrade (you can’t “transform America” without crashing the system). If S&P had any respect, they would have downgraded us last year.

Dave R. - 3k/4k/5k

August 6th, 2011
3:41 pm

“I agree an honest debate with you will never happen so it is a waste of time.”

First, you would have to be honest, and you aren’t.

Next you would have to know how to debate, which you don’t.

So it’s a good thing you won’t even try, getaclue.

getalife

August 6th, 2011
3:41 pm

Midori,

It is great reading the truth.

Are you done with the treatments?

vuduchld

August 6th, 2011
3:41 pm

@Gary G. Simple, that growth was built in a house of cards and when the house of cards fell, everything went with it.

pat

August 6th, 2011
3:41 pm

Gotta say, Obama surekept his word. Things sure have changed. Everything is worse.
I believe it now!

getalife

August 6th, 2011
3:42 pm

dave,

I think the folks in your county would disagree.

takeSays

August 6th, 2011
3:42 pm

Jay,

you and the other libs love to repeat the same ole stuff. The Repulicans this the republicans that but the biggest lie your side has been able to solidify is the one you are beating on now, the republicans refuse every deal, block every offer argument. Isn’t it a proven fact it takes TWO sides to compromise. Obama and the democrats were able to take the nation hostage based on the insistance that they had to raise taxes and that the deal had to be extended past Obama’s next run for office (pure politics). In the end you still got your way. You talk as if the repulicans forced such harsh conditions on the people, they forced you libs to accept a 7 trillion increase in our total debt over 10years rather than a 10 trillion like you wanted.
The FACT is that under the plan that both parties agreed to our debt will be 22 trillion in 2021 Obama wanted 25 trillion. The rating was down graded because we cannot manage our debt, therfore your insistance that the republicans caused the downgrade, considering S & P, advised ahead of time they wanted a 4 trillion cut is ludicrous. The only way Obama would have given us a 4 trillion cut was with tax increases and his demands, so how is it that whan Obama and the libs stick to their demands it’s good yet republicans are bad for doing the same thing ?.

By the way I think it is really important to note that the libs are accusing republicans of being terrorist because overall we want to LIMIT THE INCREASE. Instead of saying repulicans are cutting everything why not say it like it really is. The republicans want to increase the debt by 7 trillion instead of 10, meaning that they to are still ok with ruining this country—–just not as fast as you guys !

Blue Man on a Red Island

August 6th, 2011
3:42 pm

Josef – Great points. My comment is clearly over simplifying the issue and somewhat joking…somewhat.

I would also include music as another thing you Boomers got right. Headed to see Steely Dan tonight at Chastain. I’ll toast a cold one to you for the music you guys gave us.

pat

August 6th, 2011
3:44 pm

Hey anybody know obama’s plan to deal with this? Oh, there’s nothing….That’s what I call “Leadership”

Dave R. - 3k/4k/5k

August 6th, 2011
3:44 pm

You know, vuduchld, it is probably not a very good idea to try to antagonize a much smarter person than you’ll ever be, and a Jew to boot, by using the moniker of one Adolph Hitler’s closest associates.

It shows a lack of knowledge and character on your part.

pat

August 6th, 2011
3:44 pm

I love it when people describe opinion articles as real news…

Mama Says

August 6th, 2011
3:45 pm

Jay that last entry was from Mama Says not take says, I made a mistake—–just so you can yell at the right person—I mean

josef

August 6th, 2011
3:45 pm

“Bill Maher graduated from Cornell; he is hardly “uneducated””

He may be “schooled,” but he’s decidedly uneducated, imho.

vudu…

You’re just silly…it’s clear that Georgia was no more fond of you than you were of it…

Jay

August 6th, 2011
3:45 pm

Gary, massage and backfill all you want. The facts remain that in 2001, before the tax cuts, revenue was $2.215 trillion.

Seven years later, after both rounds of tax cuts were in place, revenue was $2.286 trillion, an increase over seven years of a whopping $71 billion.

This, while allegedly the tax cuts were generating an additional $200 billion a year in revenue?

You claim to have a degree in finance. If so, you know you are wrong by now, and are merely attempting to put up a smokescreen. Even if you do not have a degree in finance, you know you are wrong. Basic arithmetic and common sense tells you that.

Of course, you could still redeem your claim by producing the CBO report which claimed that the tax cuts produced $200 billion in revenue over what revenue would have been without the tax cuts. But that course will prove no more productive for you.

Tommy Maddox

August 6th, 2011
3:45 pm

Didn’t Obama also inherit a AAA rating from Bush?

Dave R. - 3k/4k/5k

August 6th, 2011
3:48 pm

“Didn’t Obama also inherit a AAA rating from Bush?”

OK, that’s funny, Tommy. :lol:

josef

August 6th, 2011
3:49 pm

BLUE MAN

Understood…and mine was also half-joking…and an interesting aside here…I was tempted to say something about our music, but decided not to…good to know you (like our own kids) appreciate that…it’s probably our greatest legacy…my own parents were products of the jazz age, and even at my most critical, had to bow to ‘em there!

Midori

August 6th, 2011
3:49 pm

Not yet Getalife — I missed my appt on thursday and THE DOCTOR CALLED ME AT WORK!!

LOL :lol:

he’s gonna chew me out when I see him this Thursday :)

But I’m getting there and doing much, much better :)

Jay

August 6th, 2011
3:50 pm

Bottom line, Gary, federal revenue was $322 billion LESS in 2008 compared to 2001, the last full year in which he took office. (I won’t even go into what revenue did in 2009).

There is no way to square that with the claim that you made. (note: dates have now been fixed).

For comparison’s sake, federal revenue in 2001, the year Clinton left office, was $704 billion HIGHER than it was when he took office in 1993 and raised taxes in order to cut the deficit. That’s a 46.6 percent increase AFTER adjusting for inflation.

Streetracer

August 6th, 2011
3:50 pm

Some perspective on the spending vs revenue debate. Did my taxes in February and this year – AGAIN – the entire federal income tax bill wasn’t enough to cover the Section 8 Housing subsidy for someone that never worked.

Midori

August 6th, 2011
3:50 pm

and I love it when idiots keep coming here berating an opinion writer for not “reporting the news”

Don't Forget

August 6th, 2011
3:51 pm

josef,

man you ARE old, lol. Glad you’re here though. I’m at the tail end of the boomer’s and I totally agree with your “generational” viewpoint, but the loss of civility and rational debate really really sucks IMO.

getalife

August 6th, 2011
3:52 pm

Yes tommy.

Do you want to look at the economy w gave him too?

Didn’t think so.

Basically the gop made history twice.

Playing politics with a default to give us our first downgrade.

The wrong side of history as usual.

Congrats.

Hootinanny Yum Yum

August 6th, 2011
3:53 pm

Not true. The Dems had ample opportunity to push a budget bill through last year, but refused to do so prior to the upcoming Nov elections. They did not want to go on record before the elections. They wanted a protracted budget battle.

Pure and simply, the Dems are at fault.

The administration and Dem’s pandering to unions, environmentalists and every other fringe liberal group; as well as it’s lack of focus on the economy has put a stake through the heart of America. What was so all fired important about pushing through a healthcare system we didn’t need, repealing DADT and fostering Muslim’s pride in their contributions to science and math?

Look at what just happened at the state fair in Milwaukee. Look at the violence that is occurring just south of our borders. Look at what has happened to the Atlanta Public School System.

When, in God’s name, will you liberals wake up and see the writing on the wall?

Tommy Maddox

August 6th, 2011
3:53 pm

Oh, you mean those last two years under a Democratic Congress?

Mark in mid-town

August 6th, 2011
3:54 pm

I don’t think the Bush tax cuts increased government revenue beyond what it would have been with the tax cuts. However I think it’s likely that the Bush tax cuts helped prevent a far worse recession after 9/11/2001 hit than would have been the case. While I don’t think the Bush tax cuts increased revenue beyond what it would have been without them, I do think there is a lot of ignorance about them.

When Bill Clinton was president in January, 2000, the Congressional Budget Office gave long term
projections of what they thought tax revenue to the federal government would be. These CBO
projections were based on the higher income tax rates under Clinton and the CBOs projections did not account for the upcoming recession and the 9/11/2001 terrorist attacks.

Let’s compare what actually happened under the Bush tax cuts with what the CBO in 2000 was projecting would be the case under the higher Clinton tax rates. Well, actual revenues to the federal government in 2006 were only 58 billion dollars lower than what the CBO had projected they would be back in January of 2000. That’s with the Bush tax cuts and the recession in the early
2000s and the 9/11 terrorist attacks happening.

The CBO did further projections in 2003. They projected that the 2003 tax cuts under Bush would lower 2006 revenues to the government by 75 billion dollars. But 2006 revenues actually
came in 47 billion dollars more than the pre-tax cut baseline. That means that under the 2003 Bush tax cuts, revenue to the federal government were actually 47 billion dollars more than what the CBO
projected would be the case had the 2003 tax cuts not happened. Pretty amazing, huh?

The problem with President Bush was not the tax cuts, it was the massive spending growth that occurred during his Administration.
.

Midori

August 6th, 2011
3:54 pm

Saying the Republican party has left her and is now owned by ideologues, former GOP state Sen. Nancy Argenziano, 56, of Crystal River says she will run for the U.S. House of Representatives as a Democrat. Argenziano will seek the District 2 seat now held by freshman Republican Steve Southerland of Panama City, who unseated longtime Democrat Allen Boyd in November 2010.

Read more: http://miamiherald.typepad.com/nakedpolitics/2011/08/former-gop-state-sen-nancy-argenziano-to-run-for-congress-as-a-democrat.html#ixzz1UHRe14l5

“The current iteration of the party abandoned real Republican principles long ago to cater to ideologues and corporations – the Koch entities, most notably – whose interests lie in the profiteering of America and the sacking of the middle class,” Argenziano wrote in a letter announcing her candidacy. “Current Republican leaders have neither patience with nor allowance for honest elected officials, and they demand that members of the various legislatures – who, after all, have sworn to uphold the Constitution – instead just follow the hijacked party line and shut up.”

http://miamiherald.typepad.com/nakedpolitics/2011/08/former-gop-state-sen-nancy-argenziano-to-run-for-congress-as-a-democrat.html

Republicans — it’s not what’s for dinner

Janney

August 6th, 2011
3:54 pm

Okay then, Dave R., guess Bill Maher and Michele Bachman have something in common.

Mama Says

August 6th, 2011
3:54 pm

Jay,

did you jut say that after both rounds of tax cuts were in place revenue increased ?

or do I need glasses ?

and Tommy—that was a slam dude of the most high and awesome nature—–to answer your questions YES Obama did take over a AAA rating.

By the way guys if you would like to see how liberal the AJC is just look for the large headline about the rating reduction—–my bad, there isn’t one !

Dave R. - 3k/4k/5k

August 6th, 2011
3:55 pm

Trying to equate solely tax policy to economic performance and tax revenues is a fool’s errand.

Continuing to debate it merely exposes the fools even further.

Midori

August 6th, 2011
3:56 pm

yes – it’s the Dems fault that the GOP acted like the true jack@sses they are!!!

If only they had passed the ceiling BEFORE said jack@ssery went global!!!

Jay

August 6th, 2011
3:57 pm

“By the way guys if you would like to see how liberal the AJC is just look for the large headline about the rating reduction—–my bad, there isn’t one !”

Funny, then, how my home-delivered paper has a banner headline in big type across the top of the front page reading “U.S. credit rating cut”.

WAW

August 6th, 2011
3:57 pm

The White House published the Simpson-Bowles Commission report in December 2010. If you Google it, you can read the entire report. The Super Joint Committee work has been done for them but they should at least use it as a starting point. It covers everything including tax reform. But the (R)’s have been told that the President has no plan and the bottom feeders spout the mantra. They have also sign the Pledge and sold their soul (and the people’s they are supposed to represent) to the devil and must do only as their owners direct.

pat

August 6th, 2011
3:57 pm

Hey what was the democrat’s plan to attack the deficit and control spending…Let’s see there was:
-Blame Bush
-Oppose Republicans
-Plea to the media for a favorable report.

sounds like a plan.

It’s obama’s fault…Hey this is fun to say….

Gary G

August 6th, 2011
3:57 pm

QUESTION: If you had more expenses than income, what would you do? Would you cut your expenses, do everything you could to pay down your debt, and change your habbits to allow yourself to live on the money you earn (remember you are not the government so you just can take money away from someone else, with out going to jail)?

Or, would you take out another credit card and/or line of credit and keep spending like a drunken sailor (or, for the government, a drunken navy)?

Any responsilble person would do the first option. Why should we demand less from our government?

Brosephus

August 6th, 2011
3:58 pm

By the way I think it is really important to note that the libs are accusing republicans of being terrorist because overall we want to LIMIT THE INCREASE. Instead of saying repulicans are cutting everything why not say it like it really is. The republicans want to increase the debt by 7 trillion instead of 10, meaning that they to are still ok with ruining this country—–just not as fast as you guys !

Doesn’t that highlighted part of your statement also point the middle finger of hypocrisy at the GOP for trying to paint the Democrats as big spenders when both parties acknowledge we will have a few more years of deficit spending before we get things under control? The Ryan plan had the debt limit pegged at $23T by 2021, and that was approved by almost every Republican in Congress. I think it was decades before his plan produced a balanced budget too, but I can’t remember the exact time frame.

Even if the Republicans are trying to LIMIT THE INCREASE, they’re implicitly acknowledging that the debt will still increase for a while before we can begin to lower it. Acknowledging the obvious, wouldn’t it be much better and less upsetting if the increase were done, and then hammer the sh*t out of the Dems over the next few budgets? Seems like the House will be GOP majority for at least another session.

pat

August 6th, 2011
3:59 pm

So anybody can blame, anybody have a solution?
We cannot spend more.
We cannot tax more.
We cannot borrow more.

Dave R. - 3k/4k/5k

August 6th, 2011
3:59 pm

“Okay then, Dave R., guess Bill Maher and Michele Bachman have something in common.”

Janney, if you’re trying to get me to defend / support Michele Bachmann, you’re wasting your time. I’ve been consistent in calling her “bat-s#it crazy”.

A degree means nothing to me. I only value what you know, say, and do with your life. Bill Maher is many things, but educated isn’t one of them.

josef

August 6th, 2011
3:59 pm

Don’t Forget…

Yeah. I think I’ve inherited my grandparents worldview…sticking around for pure spite! My Granny was a genteel Victorian lady in every sense of the word. When the local paper came out to do a story on her turning 95, the reporter asked her what she considered the best thing about living so long a life, her comment, delivered in that “sug-uh” voice, “to be able to tell anybody, anytime, any place to go to hell and get by with it. They’ll just say ’she’s old.’”

But I agree with you entirely on perhaps our greatest generation flaw has been the lack of civility.

gm

August 6th, 2011
4:00 pm

Let see, the Debt ceiling was rasied 17 times under Reagan, 7 times under Bush, no problem, here comes this African American President and hell breaks out with the tea party bigots who care less about America.
There are two things the taliban and the tea party have in common, they both hate the President of th United States and they both will do anything to destroy this country.
The tea party people are the worst Americans since the Klan, I hope this country never get attack again , because I hope are young soldiers see what kind of breed of idiots on the right they are risking there life for.

pat

August 6th, 2011
4:00 pm

Gary, you borrow more from China, duh!

Recon (2nd.and 3rd.)

August 6th, 2011
4:00 pm

It was interesting when earlier today Neil Cavuto was interviewing a Democrat Congressman. Cavuto asked him if he thought the 51% of Americans who currently pay no federal income tax should be paying some tax to help make the balance. This guy replies that the same reason is that Willie Sutton only robbed banks and not pawn shops.

AmVet

August 6th, 2011
4:01 pm

…calling the Bush Administration a failure at “preserving national security” and calling for Bush not to be re-elected.

Right on, Paul. Military men with spines who speak truth to utterly corrupted power are what this nation needs more of.

As you know, like them I hold no punches when it comes to exposing that recidivist criminal administration we the people suffered through for eight years of endless debacles, screw ups and train wrecks.

BTW, for the Bush sycophants I saw a headline the other day, which read that the security situation in Iraq is worse now than it was a year ago.

Yet the 101st Chairborne and Bushbots still consider the horrifically botched and mismanaged invasion and occupation a smashing success. (Too bad about those nearly 5,000 flag draped coffins though…)

66 years ago today…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-XUshBIElc

Dave R. - 3k/4k/5k

August 6th, 2011
4:02 pm

“Acknowledging the obvious, wouldn’t it be much better and less upsetting if the increase were done, and then hammer the sh*t out of the Dems over the next few budgets?”

With WHAT, Brosephus? The hammer goes away once you raise the debt ceiling.

And I’d still want you on the team. ;)

getalife

August 6th, 2011
4:03 pm

Midori,

My doctors do the same thing on tests and meds.

Glad you are feeling better.

josef

August 6th, 2011
4:04 pm

hootenany

“When, in God’s name, will you liberals wake up and see the writing on the wall?”

We see it, just the same as the conservatives. We just don’t read it, either.

Mene, mene, tekel efarsin…

And it didn’t delineate along partisan lines…

out of the blue

August 6th, 2011
4:04 pm

“Bill Maher graduated from Cornell; he is hardly “uneducated””

“He may be “schooled,” but he’s decidedly uneducated, imho”

josef, I would pay good money to watch you and Maher debate. Your thin skin would be so chaffed
you’d be crying out loud for mercy.

Mama Says

August 6th, 2011
4:04 pm

Cool Jay,

but we are not at your house are we ? can you show me where it is online and while you are at it can you give me the break down on the decrease in home deliveries of the AJC compared to the increase in on line viewership

pat

August 6th, 2011
4:06 pm

What did obama say about all this? Nothing, that’s what.

That moron is asleep at the wheel. He put us in another conflict in Lybia, spent like a drunk sailor in a whore house, you nimrods blame bush.

getalife

August 6th, 2011
4:06 pm

The dark side is not a team.

It is a cult.

And it is going down.

AmVet

August 6th, 2011
4:07 pm

Nor does a degree make you “educated”.

No matter how many times a day I see it here, Republispeak always cracks me up.

ed·u·cat·ed –adjective
1. having undergone education: educated people.

Midori

August 6th, 2011
4:07 pm

thank you Gealife :)

Brosephus

August 6th, 2011
4:08 pm

If you had more expenses than income, what would you do?

I’d cut unnecessary spending, then I’d go get a second job and increase my income. It’s worked for me in the past, and I see no reason why it wouldn’t work now or in the future. Hell, I was able to close on my house and pay cash for my appliances and still had money left over. I worked two full time jobs for about 6 months to do that, but I made the sacrifice to get what I wanted.

Dave R. - 3k/4k/5k

August 6th, 2011
4:08 pm

Ah. The Race card has been played by gm.

A little late, but entirely expected.

Never mind that our debt is rapidly approaching 100% of the country’s GDP. Let’s just keep doing what we have been doing right, gm?

getalife

August 6th, 2011
4:08 pm

Bill started his show on Mtv with that nut that lost last cycle.

Mama Says

August 6th, 2011
4:09 pm

here we go GM bring it out, we knew it was there. Under Bush the debt limit was increased to 10 trillion, under Regan it had to be a lot lower——so even though it will be 22 trillon Under Obama those who think we should have a budget are obliously racist.

you are the bigot, you are so caught up in color that you will let the president ruin our country just so you can feel good about the color of our presidents skin

Dave R. - 3k/4k/5k

August 6th, 2011
4:10 pm

“The dark side is not a team.”

I’d be careful using the “dark” side to describe a team with Brosephus on it. You might be considered racist! ;)

Thulsa doom

August 6th, 2011
4:11 pm

AAA credit rating under Bush
AA credit rating under Obama

Is it any surprise we would have bad credit under Obama.

Brosephus

August 6th, 2011
4:12 pm

gm

Give it a rest. The Tea Party is nothing compared to the Klan. Until the TPers start hanging people from trees and setting them afire, they won’t be the same.

Dave R. - 3k/4k/5k

August 6th, 2011
4:12 pm

Having undergone education doesn’t mean it took, AmVet.

Look at Hope & Incompetent ™ for that to be shown as true.

getalife

August 6th, 2011
4:12 pm

The evil side then.

Good always triumphs.

Recon (2nd.and 3rd.)

August 6th, 2011
4:12 pm

AmVet,

Where do you think the Middle East would be along with our national security, Israels national security or for that matter worldwide security if we had left the former dictator of that country, which has the worlds second or third largest oil reserves sitting on top and in control of those petro dollars? He may not have had nuclear weapons back then but he would surely have had them by now.

Gary G

August 6th, 2011
4:12 pm

JAY, It is clear why you didn’t go to business school. It is just one of those things that you can’t grasp when explained. But then, I know that I couldn’t be a writer.

You act as if everything is mutually exclusive when that is not the case. When Bush took office in 2000, the total direct revenue was about $4.15Trillion. In 2002, after the DOT com bubble burst and the effects of 9/11, revenue dropped to $3.6T. Then after the passage of the second Bush tax cut plan in 2003, revenue increased signifiantly every year until the all time record revenue number of $4.85T in 2007. Then, we had the beginning of the Great Recession in 2008 which reduced the revenue to $4.38T.

To really see the direct effect of the taxes, you have to understand what was going on at the time. As a History major, you should understand the importance of taking the events in the past with the context of what was going on around it. That is the case here as well. You have a favorable event in the effects of the tax cuts offset in part by the unfavorable effect of the Dot Com bubble burst and the 9/11 tragedy.

out of the blue

August 6th, 2011
4:13 pm

Getalife….Do you not understand the right has no sense of humor especially when it comes from someone, more educated and talented then they are.

josef

August 6th, 2011
4:13 pm

ZamVet

Educated is not a product of schooling…it comes from all matter of sources…a piece of paper from a prestige instution does not mean one is “educated.” It means one is “schooled.”

DAVE

I’m not sure we could fix it, but I will say this, if anybody’s got a handle on how, it would be Brosephus, willing to listen to the lunatic fring right (you) and the lunatic fringe left (me), and then dispense with the partisanship and come up with something close to the best of both worlds…that is where the country actually is in reality…

Mama Says

August 6th, 2011
4:13 pm

Thulsa, Now that wa racist—–stop it

Paul

August 6th, 2011
4:14 pm

Midori

Listen to your doctor. It saves us a lot of keystrokes. :-)

variations on this have been posted “The hammer goes away once you raise the debt ceiling”

Republicans still hold a majority in the House. Just because there’s an upper limit does not mean they have to appropriate enough funds to reach it.

It’s like the speed limit. Just because the sign says 70 doesn’t mean you have to go all the way up to 70.

One more thought on that ‘hammer.’ Pres Obama, as noted earlier, offered Republican a hammer that would cut twice what they settled on. Evidently Republicans don’t want that big a hammer.

C.J.

August 6th, 2011
4:15 pm

Everyone in Congress is a disgrace. Our President is a cowardly, brainless twit. His Cabinet and chiefs are inept and impotent scarecrows. Washington D.C. as a whole should cave into a sinkhole.

Brosephus

August 6th, 2011
4:16 pm

Dave

Anybody can be a pseudo-anonymous internet racist. It would take a real man to be one in person to my face. :)

Thulsa doom

August 6th, 2011
4:16 pm

Democratic Strategy,

1- Blame Bush
2- Scream Racism
3-Bash Tea Party

Looks like Gm got in his usual racist rant and got in 2 of the 3 strategies in one rant by blaming the tea party. His foolishness knows no bounds. Nor his despicable racism either. Whitey must have pee’d in his cereal again this morning.

getalife

August 6th, 2011
4:16 pm

out of the blue,

The right is missing some genes in their dna.

Humor, shame, humility and common sense to name a few.

I think their brains should be studied in colleges and research like football players with concussions.

Thulsa doom

August 6th, 2011
4:18 pm

Mama Says

August 6th, 2011
4:13 pm

Thulsa, Now that wa racist—–stop it

Huh! You posted that before I could even post about Gms rant. Not sure what you’re referring to.

Brosephus

August 6th, 2011
4:18 pm

CJ

If Obama’s a cowardly, brainless twit, where are your academic credentials? Care to put yours against his to see who’s really brainless?

Mama Says

August 6th, 2011
4:18 pm

Jay,

help it’s thundering and lightning, I think it the Tea Party coming to get me.

Oh wait it’s life saving rain which will quench the partched earth—it’s not really that scary

pogo

August 6th, 2011
4:18 pm

Jay, go ahead and blow off against the republicans and them not wanting to suck more money out of the private sector just to throw more good money after the bad in the endless morass that is government spending. Go ahead. But your man Obama is going down in November 2012.

Another thought; it is interesting for some liberals here to claim racism everytime a blogger critisizes Obama but wouldn’t the liberals reticence to do critisize just one thing he has done be pretty much exactly the same thing? Oh, yes.

Recon (2nd.and 3rd.)

August 6th, 2011
4:21 pm

Obama’s silence on this downgrade is deafening. Haven’t heard boo from our fearless leader except for his carni man coming out and saying that we should lay ideology aside. Laying ideology aside for Obama would be impossible.

Mama Says

August 6th, 2011
4:22 pm

Thulsa I was reffering to your 4:11 post about the bad credit under Obama—I was just messing with u though

Dave R. - 3k/4k/5k

August 6th, 2011
4:22 pm

“One more thought on that ‘hammer.’ Pres Obama, as noted earlier, offered Republican a hammer that would cut twice what they settled on. ”

Paul, repeating that oft-quoted mantra doesn’t make it any more accurate. We only know what he said, we have no paper trail that it ever existed, and it was dumped on the table 3 weeks before a decision was due. If it did exist, it certainly wasn’t a serious proposal.

josef

August 6th, 2011
4:22 pm

out of the blue…

Well, as LBJ told Lady Bird, “just because I’ve got the hide of an elephant don’t mean the darts of a Pygmy don’t sting!”

A debate with Maher? I wouldn’t last 30 seconds…I’d go straight for the jugular and be done with it…now, in a pompous ass spitting contest? Good at it as I may be, I’d have to concede to him…

Kamchak

August 6th, 2011
4:23 pm

Obama’s silence on this downgrade is deafening.

He makes a speech, you bitch.
He doesn’t make a speech, you bitch.

Some people are just bitches, no matter what.

Dave R. - 3k/4k/5k

August 6th, 2011
4:24 pm

Igor finds getaclue’s brain being studied and brings it home:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0_1F0_20mE

Brosephus

August 6th, 2011
4:24 pm

Obama’s silence on this downgrade is deafening.

Not to poke or prod, but didn’t you say yesterday that you were tired of hearing him talking at his podium or something to that effect?

Gary G

August 6th, 2011
4:26 pm

gm

August 6th, 2011
4:00 pm
Let see, the Debt ceiling was rasied 17 times under Reagan, 7 times under Bush, no problem, here comes this African American President and hell breaks out with the tea party bigots who care less about America.

————————

That is silly. First of all, the debt limit was raised so much under Reagan because of the liberal congress spending more money. Granted, Reagan signed off on the increased spending so that he could get his tax cuts, but that is why. Also, the debt limit was only $2.8T at the end of Reagans 2nd term.

The short answer is we could afford it then and the economy was flying.

Thulsa doom

August 6th, 2011
4:26 pm

Looks like the poo just referred to Obama as a b_tch. Its about time he learned something.

Paul

August 6th, 2011
4:27 pm

Dave R.

Surely you’ve been at meetings with a company CEO who lays out a policy, a goal, a vision? It’ never about specifics – that’s hammered out later. It’s like you asking a woman out for dinner and she says “you’re not serious. You didn’t say which restaurant, which menu, which courses….”

It was a negotiation, Dave R. An offer was made. Republicans rejected it.

That’s the big issue.

Bruno

August 6th, 2011
4:27 pm

josef–Beautiful essay @ 3:35.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2pU0QJkMck

“You know the good ole days weren’t always good
And tomorrow ain’t as bad as it seems”

Kamchak

August 6th, 2011
4:27 pm

I hear you knockin’ thelma, but you can’t come in.

Paul

August 6th, 2011
4:28 pm

BTW, Dave R – Republicans never offered specifics either. By program. Specifically.

Mama Says

August 6th, 2011
4:28 pm

Thusla,

I was talking about your 4:11 post on bad credit under Obama and I was mocking the libs, we are all racist rant.

your cool.

Kamchak—-we bitch, libs legally protest in the excercise of their free speach.

you guys made the rules now live by them

Thulsa doom

August 6th, 2011
4:28 pm

poo. I already busted the door down.

Midori

August 6th, 2011
4:29 pm

I’ll be good, Paul!! :)

AmVet

August 6th, 2011
4:29 pm

Educated is not a product of schooling…

josef, stop it. You’re being ridiculous. And you of all people, playing word games!

I understand the point you are trying to make, but disregarding the actual definitions of words is not the way to make it.

By the very and primary definition of the word – as I provided – he is educated.

Find a correct adjective to fault him…

Del, no sale. He was boxed in and the argument is weak as water. (Hat tip Mrs. Slocumb) There are dozens of dangerous dictators in the world. Are we now gonna botch endless invasions and occupations?

The criminals Bush and Cheney screwed American prestige forever with their torture-filled, lie based preemptive attacks.

And they and their yellow lapdogs can rot in hell as far as I’m concerned.

Just my worthless two cents…

pogo

August 6th, 2011
4:30 pm

And one would think that Eric Holder would be treating the trajedy that happened at the Wisconsin State Fair the other night as a hate crime. That is the event in which caucausions were pulled from their cars and beaten by black youths. These very same youths ignored black people who were leaving the fair and specifically targeted whites. Some of the victims were severely injured. Where is the media on this? Why isn’t this being reported?

Midori

August 6th, 2011
4:30 pm

Kammy — just yesterday he couldn’t help but vomit whenever Obama deplaned and gave a speech.

like you said……….

poison pen

August 6th, 2011
4:30 pm

getalife

” So you got us downgraded to end our recovery.”

Recovery? I think I peed my pants from laughing over that one.
Do you have a clue as to the real World, seriously, do you?

Do you read the papers, not just this one sided blog, but real papers?

9.1% unemployment

A deficit so deep that we can see China

Politicans ( all of them ) so F***ed up they don’t know their A$$ hole from a hole in the ground.

Timmy G. and Barenaked so lost that they don’t have a clue as to get us out of this mess, and you think we were in a recovery?

The only RECOVERY for our country is in the ICU.

WAW

August 6th, 2011
4:31 pm

Gov Perry prayed for all of us today. He prayed for himself and fellow Republicans too when he asked God to forgive the sins that has brought our nation to this point. Maybe there is light for them after all.

Big dreams

August 6th, 2011
4:31 pm

Jay are you blocking people from posting ?

Jay

August 6th, 2011
4:31 pm

“When Bush took office in 2000, the total direct revenue was about $4.15Trillion.”

Really? Says who? What’s your source? Mine is the OMB Historical Tables, which reports total federal revenues in 2000 of 2.025 trillion, which is half of your number.

So what’s your source?

Don't Forget

August 6th, 2011
4:32 pm

Josef,

But I agree with you entirely on perhaps our greatest generation flaw has been the lack of civility.

Josef, I actually think the lack of civility is merely a symptom of what has always plagued the boomers, of which I am one. The boomers are such a large group that they have been trendsetter’s throughout their entire life without the “checks” that other generations have had. In the sixties they embraced drugs as almost harmless, by the 80’s they had some affluence and children so we got BMW’s, conspicuous consumption, the war on drugs and “baby on board” signs and now we have the “mad as hell” mentality. I guess the 90’s were our best decade because I can’t think of anything we screwed up, lol. As to our contributions, I’d say that the next generation is probably the biggest because young people seem (to me anyway) to be much more tolerant of racial and sexual difference’s. I just wish we had done a better job of teaching the importance of history and education.

Jay

August 6th, 2011
4:33 pm

Why do you ask, Dreams? I haven’t added anybody to the permanently blocked list in weeks, as far as I can recall.

Big dreams

August 6th, 2011
4:33 pm

Jay,

is Mama says on restriction–you are not allowing his post—WHY ?

getalife

August 6th, 2011
4:34 pm

I can see why people are leaving the market.

The gop will still insist on no taxes and will block jobs and attack them.

The economy will collapse again but no bailouts this time.

The gop will get their depression they wanted.

I have never seen anything like it and very disgusted.

Dave R. - 3k/4k/5k

August 6th, 2011
4:34 pm

“It was a negotiation, Dave R. An offer was made. Republicans rejected it.”

So he says. But the timing of it discounted it as a serious negotiation. This was face-saving politics at it’s worst.

Thulsa doom

August 6th, 2011
4:35 pm

Paul,

I gotta disagree. When the Republicans offer specifics they usually end up getting trashed precisely because they offered specifics. Good example- Ryan’s plan on Medicare. Whether you agreed with or disagreed with the merits of his plan he put something specific out there. And rather than debate the specifics what did we get from the Dems? Commercials of Ryan pushing granny in a wheelchair over a cliff.

Obama and the Dems are just too cowardly to come out and publicly lay out specifics. They’re just playing politics and the blame game without having to actually put something of substance out there and man up and take a risk. There is a reason the Senate didn’t present a budget for 820 something days- cowardice and no specific plans. They just don’t care in the Dem controlled Senate.

Same with Obama. He would rather give a speech about millionaires and billionaires and the corporate jet tax write-off then talk about substantive issues such as real specifics and real reform. Its easier just to criticize and score points on someone who actually presents a detailed plan then to actually put forth a specific plan. Obama and Reid simply choose the cowardly and irresponsible route of criticizing other’s specific plans while not presenting one of their own.

Kamchak

August 6th, 2011
4:35 pm

Hiya, Midori!

Paul

August 6th, 2011
4:35 pm

“When Bush took office in 2000, the total direct revenue was about $4.15Trillion.”

Really?”

Well, it would appear tax cuts do in fact decrease revenue.

Who’da’ thunk?

Big dreams

August 6th, 2011
4:36 pm

Mama’s feelings are hurt. Post after post is not getting posted and she was arguing good—they are posting under a different e-mail

Midori

August 6th, 2011
4:36 pm

what a bunch of nuts!!!

http://articles.nydailynews.com/2010-10-27/news/2707940...

A Republican Congresswoman shocked teachers and students alike this month when she decided to talk about abortion to a classroom of 6-year-olds.

Rep. Jean Schmidt (R-OH) ventured into the age-inappropriate territory during a speech at a Cincinnati Catholic school, where she addressed a room of students ranging from first to eighth graders.

“Unexpectedly, towards the end of her address, Congresswoman Schmidt brought up the topic of abortion,” Prinicipal Dan Teller wrote in a letter to parents, obtained by Cincinnati’s WLWT.com. “Your children may come home with questions, especially if this is a topic that has not been broached in your home.”

Jay

August 6th, 2011
4:37 pm

“First of all, the debt limit was raised so much under Reagan because of the liberal congress spending more money. Granted, Reagan signed off on the increased spending so that he could get his tax cuts, but that is why. “

Again, wrong, Gary G.

The final budget passed by Congress in each of the Reagan years was almost exactly as large as Reagan had requested. Reagan and Congress had disagreements about how that money would be split among defense and domestic programs, but history shows very clearly that the amount Congress appropriated each year was almost exactly the amount that Reagan had requested.

Again, what’s your source for your revenue figures? And I still haven’t seen a link to this CBO report that you claimed existed.

Paul

August 6th, 2011
4:38 pm

Thulsa

“I gotta disagree. When the Republicans offer specifics they usually end up getting trashed precisely because they offered specifics”

Disagree all you want, but saying they in the past got trashed for offering specifics does not mean in this round they offered specifics. They didn’t. Whatever the excuse Republicans want to use to justify attacking Pres Obama for ‘no specifics” while shielding themselves from criticism for doing the same is still an excuse.

Or maybe you’d prefer if Republicans said “Of course Pres Obama didn’t offer specifics. We know what happens – see Rep Ryan – so we don’t blame him at all.”

Big dreams

August 6th, 2011
4:38 pm

Thusla

Mama Says was just messing with you about being racist—–just playing

Thulsa doom

August 6th, 2011
4:38 pm

A Republican Congresswoman shocked teachers and students alike this month when she decided to talk about abortion to a classroom of 6-year-olds.

Kinda like the Dems wanting to have sex education taught to grade schoolers.

jan

August 6th, 2011
4:39 pm

The Republicans should all be impeached, tried for treason and thrown in prison. Right wing extremists and the Tea Party have destroyed this country, as well as Bush. Why would these pathetic Republicans run for elected office if their aim is to destroy government and the middle class? To destroy the very entity that they’re serving?? What pathetic losers. Republicans are the Communists who truly hate this country, other than the top 2% and oil companies and Halliburton and wars. For 8 years under Bush, Republicans sat silent and gave Bush a blank check to spend billions to wage war against a country that had nothing to do with 9/11. Bush spent billions while not even raising taxes to pay for it. And then he gave millionaires even more tax cuts on top of it, while increasing the tax burden on the middle class. Bush somehow turned a huge tax surplus left by Clinton into a 2 billion dollar deficit. And I’m not even talking about his ‘deregulation’ stance which led to the housing, mortgage, banking and stock market crisis. Republicans are the true terrorists. If only Bush hadn’t stolen the election.

Midori

August 6th, 2011
4:39 pm

poor, poor Gary.

He keeps setting himself up, and Jay comes right back and knocks him down.

stay down Gary.

stay down :lol:

getalife

August 6th, 2011
4:40 pm

Midori,

She was the one that called Mr. Murtha a coward on Iraq.

Just a horrible American.

Midori

August 6th, 2011
4:43 pm

I remember, Getalife.

she’s certifiable.

getalife

August 6th, 2011
4:43 pm

Gary,

When a man is proven wrong and loses a debate, a man admits it and stands corrected.

Are you man enough Gary?

Paul

August 6th, 2011
4:44 pm

Oh, Thulsa

Thanks again for the Medicare Advantage info for my sister. She met with SS staffers to do some planning and your info was most helpful.

pogo

August 6th, 2011
4:44 pm

getalife, think of it as one HUGE twelve step program to ween America from its addiction to deficit spending. Sometimes you have to reach rock bottom to begin to heal. The trick for our situation is, just be prepared for when Uncle Sam bottoms out because defintely is not going to be pretty. Addicts don’t give up their drug easily.

And Jay, what do you think about Holder looking into the WS. Fair assault as a hate crime (which it plainly was)? What is your take on this? I expect silence.

Jay

August 6th, 2011
4:44 pm

Dreams, for reasons I can’t explain, Mama’s posts were ending up in our commercial spam filter. They’ve been released.

Thulsa doom

August 6th, 2011
4:45 pm

Big dreams,

Ok. I get it now. Let me remand my statment lest people get the wrong idea with steretypes about black men having bad credit. Hence I will add the portion with quotation marks. I thought it would have been pretty obvious that I was talking about Obama’s deficit spending but you never can be to careful about what people may read into something.

Thulsa doom

August 6th, 2011
4:11 pm

AAA credit rating under Bush
AA credit rating under Obama

Is it any surprise we would have bad credit under Obama- “given the fact that he has never balanced a business budget or a govt budget in his life and had zero executive experience coming into the job.”

TaxPayer, Inc.

August 6th, 2011
4:46 pm

For 2010, using Urban Institute and CBPP results,

we spent 3.5 trillion. Of that amount, 26% was Individual Income tax receipts, 6% was corporate tax receipts, 25% was payroll and social insurance tax receipts, 6% was excise and other tax receipts, ans 37% was borrowed.

That 3.5 trillion went out as follows: 20% for defense and security, 20% for social security recipients, 21% for Medicare, Medicaid and Chip, 14% for Safety Net programs, 6% for Interest on the debt, 7% for federal retirees and vets, and the remaining 12% to all other programs.

So, what do you want to cut. Take your pick.

Midori

August 6th, 2011
4:46 pm

“Compared with previous projections, our revised base case scenario now assumes that the 2001 and 2003 tax cuts, due to expire by the end of 2012, remain in place. We have changed our assumption on this because the majority of Republicans in Congress continue to resist any measure that would raise revenues, a position we believe Congress reinforced by passing the act. Key macroeconomic assumptions in the base case scenario include trend real GDP growth of 3% and consumer price inflation near 2% annually over the decade.”

it has a certain “ring” :lol:

Jay

August 6th, 2011
4:46 pm

Gee, Pogo, your sense of self-persecution sure is strong, isn’t it?

I saw extensive coverage of the event in the local and state media. Local and state law enforcement were also quite clear about wanting to pursue it. Generally the feds don’t get involved in such cases unless the state or local officials fail to do their duty.

Sux Limbow

August 6th, 2011
4:46 pm

Republicans care about lowing taxes on rich folks and letting corporations run wild, especially fueling the military-industrial complex.

Kamchak

August 6th, 2011
4:46 pm

you guys made the rules now live by them

And which rules are those?

getalife

August 6th, 2011
4:49 pm

pogo,

A depression to stop spending is ig norant.

Clinton fixed it and your party blew it but you are not adult enough to admit facts.

Thulsa doom

August 6th, 2011
4:52 pm

Paul,

Glad to see it helped and I hope she makes a good choice. Let’s git back to arguing repubs vs dems! Actually I’m about to go running but I’ll catch up to the posting later. Also I forgot to mention I don’t know what she gets in SS and or retirement earnings and of course its none of my businesss. But if its not a good deal of money then you might want to have her check also to see if she qualifies for any type of low income subsidy on drugs/medications. They don’t tell you unless you ask.

BADA BING

August 6th, 2011
4:52 pm

Standard and Poor is a perfect name for this Obamaconomy. Everyone’s Standard of living has gone down, and half of the country is Poor.

AmVet

August 6th, 2011
4:55 pm

Doom, blaming Obama solely for the credit rating drop is like blaming Mike Quade solely for the fact that the Cubs stink. They’ve stunk for a long time. The same way our house of cards economy has.

There are a whole bunch of folks who are equally if not more responsible for this current mess than the Uppity Kenyan Marxist Muslim. Maybe the United States Congress has a little something to do with it?

This debacle started long before January 20, 2009…

Jim

August 6th, 2011
4:55 pm

Just did my daily scan of the little lib sock puppets for a good laugh. Better than the comic strips. Facts are indeed the enemy of the lib.

carry on little friends until next time….

Kamchak

August 6th, 2011
4:56 pm

Everyone’s Standard of living has gone down…

Yeah, I’m sure Paris Hilton is feeling the pain. :roll:

Pogo

August 6th, 2011
4:58 pm

But what do you think about it Jay? If this would have been white youths we would now be saturated by media coverage. There is no other way to paint this one than hate crime. Those youths targeted white people.

Paul

August 6th, 2011
4:59 pm

Thulsa

Thanks. We’re in one of those states where, if you had a first career, qualified for decent SS, then went back to school in your 40s for an ed degree so you could give something back (her situation) she gets SS reduced by her state pension. Wham-o. That’s another thing they don’t tell you – and who goes into a job and asks “hey, if I work for you, will my other retirement get offset?”

One always has to know which questions to ask, eh

To clarify: to me it’s not so much Reps vs Dems but policies. I will grant, though, that in the last couple of years the policies adopted by the New Republican are uniquely theirs, so I suppose it’s the same thing.

Anyhow, I’ll have to take a raincheck. Just finishing up a couple of deadlines, then next week off to see a new granddaughter.

See you in a week. Have a good run. (good thing you’re not here, it cooled off today, it’s 105 now. Not good running weather).

josef

August 6th, 2011
5:04 pm

ZamVet

The point is educated is not equivalent to schooled…I’ve got a little of the former and a lot of the latter…the former did not come from the latter…the latter has not been worth a whole lot. The former has.

BTW–y’all getting this blow up in Chambodia? It’s a wingdinger in Bughead…

Don’t Forget

.”I just wish we had done a better job of teaching the importance of history and education.”

Instead of current events and schooling.

BRUNO
Thanks, and that particular cut is one of my old age credos.

getalife

August 6th, 2011
5:05 pm

Medicare Advantage is good?

Do tell doomy.

Paul

August 6th, 2011
5:06 pm

Just can’t resist, can you, getalife?

:-)

Pogo

August 6th, 2011
5:06 pm

Self persecution Jay? I practice it everyday. Too bad you and a whole lot of other people don’t as well. If we could all lay aside what we perceive as our imperfectability, we would be all be better off.

BADA BING

August 6th, 2011
5:07 pm

The 2 Americas can be seen tonight in action. Go out to eat tonight at any good restaurant in ATL or the suburbs. It will be standing room only while you wait 45 minutes for a table. The poor half will be wondering how they are going to pay the power bill of feed their children. The divide in this country is wide and getting wider. You better get what you can while the getting is good. There are 7 billion people on this planet who want what you have.

Pogo

August 6th, 2011
5:10 pm

Am vet, you are correct. This thing started long ago and unfortunately we have had to endure a long series of loser presidents who only made it worse.

AmVet

August 6th, 2011
5:11 pm

Facts are indeed the enemy of the lib.

Says someone who has never posted a fact in his life.

Boomin’ big time here, jo. I love these showers, they knock the temps down at least 10 degrees…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLf6rhKTRjU&feature=related

FedUp

August 6th, 2011
5:11 pm

Stop the fingerpointing. The partisan politics displayed in this article and in the subsequent comments is sickening.

BOTH parties are to blame. BOTH parties are ruining the reputation and credit of the United States.

Aspects of both parties plans are right and other parts are wrong.

We need to reduce entitlement spending immediately. Medicaid, TANF, Food Stamps, WIC, Social Security and Medicare. They all need to be cut ASAP. We can’t afford to keep being “people’s keepers.” Take care of yourself or find private charity willing to help. It is harsh but reality. We can’t continue to support generations of families living off public assistance. The handouts have got to stop.

We need to wake up and recognize that America’s infrastructure is aging. Our electrical grid is old. Our bridges are old. Our roads are old. The list goes on and on. This is going to require billions, if not trillions, in investments over the next ten to twenty years.

We need to come up with a comprehensive immigration plan immediately. This unmitigated flood of illegal immigrants is taxing our already aging infrastructure and society. We are approaching a “critical” point in our capacity. Yes, I realize that America has always had an open door policy and that we were built by immigrants. However, we have to realize that we can’t support everybody. We’ve got to make changes.

We need to end huge tax breaks for the rich. EVERYONE, rich and poor included, should help shoulder the tax burden. It is criminal that GE made billions in profits and wasn’t required to pay one penny in taxes.

There is so much wrong with America and the partisan finger pointing is disgusting and revolting.

getalife

August 6th, 2011
5:14 pm

Paul,

Just curious of what others say about Medicare Advantage.

out of the blue

August 6th, 2011
5:15 pm

BADA BING

August 6th, 2011
4:52 pm
Standard and Poor is a perfect name for this Obamaconomy. Everyone’s Standard of living has gone down, and half of the country is Poor.

I think Jon Stewart said the very same thing a week ago!

getalife

August 6th, 2011
5:17 pm

“This thing started long ago”

Sure, if you forget the last attempt at balancing the budget and the Clinton economy.

I will refresh your memory.

josef

August 6th, 2011
5:17 pm

FedUp

Then again all we have to do is wait for the revolution, we ought to reduce our excess population by a good 25% without too much effort…worked in Russia and China…

getalife

August 6th, 2011
5:19 pm

“Getalife, why don’t you getalife”

If I had a nickle……….

AmVet

August 6th, 2011
5:19 pm

Pogo, TR has what promises to be a killer new album coming out soon.

It is him covering some of the great songs he produced for other bands – Tubes, XTC, Grand Funk, Meatloaf, Hall & Oates, Patti Smith, Psychedelic Furs, NY Dolls, Bourgeois Tagg, Cheap Trick and Rick Derringer.

http://www.amazon.fr/re-Production/dp/B005FU76XO/ref=dm_ap_alb16

josef

August 6th, 2011
5:19 pm

BADA

“I think Jon Stewart said the very same thing a week ago!”

Good to see the new job is going so well… :-)

Jack

August 6th, 2011
5:20 pm

Same old liberal whining: tax the rich and pass it on along to the poor.

getalife

August 6th, 2011
5:21 pm

Paul,

I missed his advice on that insurance.

What was it?

Don't Forget

August 6th, 2011
5:24 pm

Thulsa doom

August 6th, 2011
4:35 pm

When the Republicans offer specifics they usually end up getting trashed precisely because they offered specifics.

Thulsa, it’s no different for dems. That’s why politicians usually only speak in rhetoric, it’s nearly impossible to argue against good rhetoric. I’ll give Ryan credit for coming out with a plan. There are parts of it I strongly disagree with but I won’t trash the whole plan, just the parts I disagree with. It was the same thing with healthcare reform. I remember watching the meeting between Obama and the republican senators as Obama asked each senator if there was ANYTHING about the bill they liked. No one had the courage support any part of it. It’s just politics, it’s disgusting and both sides do it with the party that is out of power usually doing more than the party that is in power.

getalife

August 6th, 2011
5:24 pm

“You better get what you can while the getting is good. There are 7 billion people on this planet who want what you have.”

Me generation.

Glad you got a job to get yours.

jeff

August 6th, 2011
5:24 pm

Jay needs a lesson in economics from Bernie Marcus. But I’m sure Jay would belittle him and accuse him of not understanding the business world.

BADA BING

August 6th, 2011
5:25 pm

Don’t get the Daily Show, I gave up cable years ago. Does anyone remember the Daily Show with Craig Kilborn? It was much better with Craigers hosting!

Kamchak

August 6th, 2011
5:25 pm

Tick…tick…tick….

Uncle Jed

August 6th, 2011
5:26 pm

Obama and Company have great influence on Wall Street and with the ratings entities. We are being played for fools, yet again. This is exactly what Obama and his band of merry hacks orchestrated. Why? Wait for the Fall of next year and watch Barry “cause” the rating to be restored. “Oh, thank you Mr. President for saving my kitten; my grandparents; and my student loan.”

AmVet

August 6th, 2011
5:26 pm

Hey jo, do you know this MOT’s music? He had quite the pedigree, being a founding member of the Red Hot Chili Peppers. Heroin took him at the age of 26.

Good stuff…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDCKU4nkZ0M

josef

August 6th, 2011
5:28 pm

getalife

Damn! Telling somebody in the land laissez les bons temps rouler to get a life? Shoo-ee, Mec, you don’t even have to leave the verandah for that! Bless their pore lil hearts, they just don’t know, do they?

getalife

August 6th, 2011
5:29 pm

jed,

Your tin foil hat is huge.

Your party derailed the recovery as planned.

Look at the people at fox.

They are happy.

AmVet

August 6th, 2011
5:29 pm

Don’t know Jack, the line you should have used is from Alvin Lee:

Tax the rich, feed the poor
’til there are no rich no more

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzrUqAtUcpU

getalife

August 6th, 2011
5:32 pm

josef,

Lots of festivals.

I have read the get a life line thousands of times.

Brosephus

August 6th, 2011
5:33 pm

Man, got knocked down by mother nature for a few, and I see somebody opened that padlocked door in the corner again. I read the 5:11 and second 5:17 and those two thoughts started creeping into my head again…

Thought #1…

Thought #2…

Now, I gotta go get a good, strong beer to wash those thoughts out of my head. Jay, you can attract them better than moths to a bonfire. :)

josef

August 6th, 2011
5:34 pm

ZamVet

Man! You did dig deep for that one, but yes, I do remember them and I remember my ears perking up when I heard that name! And the original Red Hot Chili Peppers,,,was a big fan and my hrrmph went up when I first heard OF the contemporary ones…gotta say, they do the name proud!

Mr Charlie

August 6th, 2011
5:34 pm

Yes, Alvin Lee….maybe that outta be Barrys 12 slogan, “I want to change the world, but I don’t know what to do”.

Mr Charlie

August 6th, 2011
5:35 pm

Kamshaft, for once we are in agreement.

Don't Forget

August 6th, 2011
5:35 pm

Thulsa doom

August 6th, 2011
4:38 pm

A Republican Congresswoman shocked teachers and students alike this month when she decided to talk about abortion to a classroom of 6-year-olds.

Kinda like the Dems wanting to have sex education taught to grade schoolers.

Thulsa, yeah pretty much. They’re both inappropriate IMO.

Waheema

August 6th, 2011
5:36 pm

Blaming the credit default on the tea party is jsut ludicrous. Jay does not do it directly but still tries to have it both ways. The US is in credit default because we are spending more than we are taking in. Obama must bear responsiblity for this slow growth economy. He was warned frequently that his policies, his regulators and his tone were hurting business. This is the result. His policy was the failed stimulus. His policy was Obamacare which will add a trillion to our deficits. His spending and the spending of the democrat congress have been out of control for years. Now that there is a credit downgrade, the democrats finally care about the deficit.
Now of course both parties deserve much blame for not facing reality on Medicare or Social security. Mr. Bookman has done more than his share of demagogery on both.

Paulo977

August 6th, 2011
5:36 pm

Jay

August 6th, 2011
5:39 pm

Add one to the list.

Lazardo

August 6th, 2011
5:39 pm

The right wingers are so stupid!! Us liberals know that the government’s job is to support its citizens and stupid republicans just try to get in the way! America is not that great a country anyway, unless its government takes care of its citizens from womb to tomb. Me and all my liberal friends don’t have jobs and all we get are these measly unemployment checks, where is my 40 acres and a lexus Obama?

Brosephus

August 6th, 2011
5:40 pm

Who’s that Jay?

AmVet

August 6th, 2011
5:41 pm

Charlie, and the truth shall set all of us free…

I want to change the world
I want to make it well
How can I change the world
When I can’t change myself
Try again tomorrow
I’d love to change your mind
Capture your citadel
How could I change your mind
If I can’t change myself
Try again tomorrow

If I want more peace in the world
Then I must make peace with myself
If I want more trust in the world
Then I’ve got to trust in myself
If I want more love in the world
I must show more love to myself

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v10gEIUcK70

gm

August 6th, 2011
5:41 pm

Mama Says

What I dont understand ? You took your marching orders under George W where was the outcry and the concern for grand kids then? Denial is the first sign of being a hypocrite.
As long as the white President was speaking in the name of America, the tea party bigots and birthers had no issues, the right have what the world already know its called Unconscious bigtory, second the tea party do not speak for real hard working Americans.

Brosephus

August 6th, 2011
5:42 pm

Boduk

August 6th, 2011
5:42 pm

Obama and the Democratically controlled Congress for Obama’s first two years messed up by trying to compromise with Republicans. Obama should have been more like push and pass what he wanted. We can’t afford the Bush tax cuts while we are fighting two wars. Plus, the tax cuts didn’t do anything to bring about jobs. If anything, the “job creators” were getting rid of American workers and sending jobs overseas! Further, it’s the House that sets the budget and what they did was hold all of us hostage to try and protect and help those that don’t need any tax breaks and make those that do need a break suffer.
To you conservatives that are worried about your taxes going up. They alreasy are. Think about how many counties and cities are raising your taxes now.

Jay

August 6th, 2011
5:42 pm

Waterstim has forfeited his rights here….

Lazardo

August 6th, 2011
5:43 pm

Obama should just print some mo money and give it to me and my homeys, we gonna vote him back in 2012!

getalife

August 6th, 2011
5:43 pm

If you have a 401 k or investing in the market, I bet you are freaking out right now.

The President wants to work on jobs but the gop will block it.

Then he will say lets do what they agree on.

So what do they agree on?

Nothing that will help the economy.

So lets say the gop wins.

What will the gop do to help the economy?

Cut taxes and regulations that does not help the economy.

Are you freaking out now?

You should be.

Mr Charlie

August 6th, 2011
5:43 pm

Our economic situation on the federal level is as though we are making 50K per year, Spending 75k, and have 360k in credit card debt. I cannot even comprehend for a second that people do not think we have a completely out of control spending problem.

Jay

August 6th, 2011
5:46 pm

And I sense another soon …

Contractor

August 6th, 2011
5:47 pm

I can play the what if game too there Bookman. What if the Obama administration had practiced fiscal responsibility and not more than doubled the debt that was there before he took office? What if the Dems would have agreed to Cut, Cap, and Balance? Not really sure how you can look at that mug in the mirror knowing that each and every article of opinion you write is complete garbage and so far from the truth that it takes a greaseball to even write this stuff with a conscience that allows you to publish it.

pogo

August 6th, 2011
5:47 pm

While the Tea-Party is the cause-de-celeb for the leftists now in this country, in reality they, the Tea-Party, don’t consitute even 1% of the voting population. With no-one but themselves to blame, they (the leftists) are lashing out at whomever and whatever they can to cover up the fact that their chosen party’s (the Democrats) socialistic policies and spending have driven us to the brink of financial collapse. And if any liberal has the audacity to again bring up the old “the republicans are puppets for big business” bit, just look at the relationship between Obama and GE and the Big Banks who took billions of our hard earned dollars and have essentially partied off of them in the form of improved profit margins and bonuses.

Lazardo

August 6th, 2011
5:48 pm

Mr. Charlie

It is the government job to spend money on it citizen, dont you know nothing?

gm

August 6th, 2011
5:49 pm

Whats so amazing is half the tea party hypocrites are on medicade and receive some kind of government assistant”””
Look at M. Bachman her and her husband received all kinds of government money but yet she goes around telling low self esteem whites looking for someone to hate that it is government fault they are in the situation they are in, instead of telling them big corporations have our jobs overseas.

getalife

August 6th, 2011
5:49 pm

What do you think Jay, any positive outlook on our economy?

Paul

August 6th, 2011
5:50 pm

getalife

It was that, depending on where you live and the doctor network, it can be medically and financially advantageous.

josef

August 6th, 2011
5:50 pm

PAULO

Be careful…you might be getting thin skinned! A little Native American Spiritualism back atcha… :-)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bI1WBztE-Kg

Brosephus

August 6th, 2011
5:51 pm

FedUp

August 6th, 2011
5:51 pm

Not where I can listen to the video Paulo977 so I’m not entirely sure what you are trying to get across. When I say “we,” I’m referring to people of all races and origins that are here in the United States as legal U.S. citizens.

We’ve got some tough choices to make. Unfortunately, as a general rule, I don’t think the Democrats are willing to make them. On the other hand, I’m afraid the Republican party is willing to go to the absolute extreme where somewhere in the middle is appropriate.

Some of the tough questions I anticipate:

1. How do we cut welfare and other entitlement programs without being overly harsh? Democrats, IN GENERAL, will argue that it’s “inhumane” to cut these programs. Republicans, IN GENERAL, would cut them completely.

I can assure the Democrats that there are TONS of people who abuse these programs costing us billions of dollars. There are people that FLAT OUT refuse to get jobs and try and support themselves and their families. I was in an occupation where I dealt with them everyday. When they tore down Cabrini-Greene housing in Chicago, a woman was PROUD of the fact that MULTIPLE generations of her family had been raised in the projects and said they’d be dragging her out before she’d leave. This is a problem.

I can assure Republicans that there are people that legitimately deserve and need our help. We don’t just need to yank the rug out from under them.

2. What do we do about immigration reform?

We truly are at a critical point. However, in general, Democrats argue that we can’t just kick people out. This isn’t fair. America was built by immigrants and in many cases we have abused and used immigrants and therefore it isn’t fair to make them leave.

Republicans, in general, would kick everyone out that isn’t here legally and make them take their kids too that are likely U.S. Citizens.

There has to be a way to find common ground in the middle.

Defense spending is a no-brainer. We need to quit policing the world and cut defense spending for these operations while not compromising our national security.

We’re too interested in fingerpointing though to address these and the many other issues facing our society. However, if we don’t wake up soon, it is going to be difficult to recover.

getalife

August 6th, 2011
5:51 pm

Thanks Paul.

Don't Forget

August 6th, 2011
5:52 pm

Jay

August 6th, 2011
5:39 pm

Add one to the list.

Lol, I wonder who? Guess I haven’t been following close enough. Maybe Gary?

Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)

August 6th, 2011
5:53 pm

But if its not a good deal of money then you might want to have her check also to see if she qualifies for any type of low income subsidy on drugs/medications. They don’t tell you unless you ask.

Well, leave it to a insurance salesman to advise going on the public dole while blasting guvmint spending.

I sure am glad we don’t have no insurance or used car salesmen at Simpsons Trailer Park. We got class.

AmVet

August 6th, 2011
5:54 pm

Fortunately, stim’s “contributions” were very abbreviated.

Face the facts, the spendaholics in neither party is prepared to make anything more than insufficient spending cuts. Both have their inviolable pet projects and sources of dirty money.

Make large cuts in defense now.

End all corporate welfare now.

There will always been ugly consequences, but those two things alone would put us MUCH closer to the goal than this Mickey Mouse baloney the Tweedledeers and Tweedledummers are positing…

Dave R. - 3k/4k/5k

August 6th, 2011
5:55 pm

“I sense another one, too.”

Jay, if it isn’t getaclue, could you please just limit him to 5 lines of haiku? When he goes to 10 lines it just doubles the nonsense.

ben

August 6th, 2011
5:56 pm

I think anyone who would vote for the Republicans at this point should be put in a mental institution. Republicans are bigger terrorists than Al Qaeda at this point. They’ve been terrorizing this economy ever since Bush stole the election. Seriously, what have the Republicans done for this country other than destroy it? Gas prices went from $1.50 a gallon to $4.00 a gallon under Bush’s watch and now no one seems to give a damn that we have 4 dollar gas now that we’ve been conditioned to accept it. I guess this is what happens when you elect an oil man as president whose best friends run Exxon Mobil. 8 years of war for no reason. I guess this is what happens when you have friends at Halliburton like Bush and Cheney did. Rethuglicans love to wage war but apparently have zero interest in fixing any problems in this country, at least under Obama’s watch. Anyone who would vote for a Republican at this point should be put in an insane asylum.

Tom

August 6th, 2011
5:56 pm

Cut all welfare spending. All unemployment, gut social security and medicaid. If you want to cut defense spending, then lets talk about equal cuts in the social welfare sector. I can live with the knowledge that the host is killing off the parasites. Because by definition, liberals are parasites.

AmVet

August 6th, 2011
5:58 pm

Entwistle was somewhat overshadowed by Moon, Daltrey and Townshend, but that guy was a monster in his own right…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_qFjmy2Dec

Tom

August 6th, 2011
5:58 pm

In other words, not all parasites are liberals, but ALL liberals are parasites. Every last one of them.

Paul

August 6th, 2011
5:59 pm

You’re welcome, getalife.

Go easy on them this week, ‘k? It’ like a boxer getting pummeled – they don’t know what’s going on but they keep flailing. Almost feel sorry for them.

Pleasant week, all -

AmVet

August 6th, 2011
6:02 pm

Every president since Reagan, including Clinton pared welfare rolls significantly

While at the exact same, exploding the amount of corproate welfare.

Tom, you don’t know this, but corproate welfare now dwarfs welfare for individuals. The corporate takeover of Washington made this so.

At least the poor, sick and elderly deserve a hand, but Exxon and BP?

End welfare for the wealthy and then start b*tching about those in poverty, OK?

Jay

August 6th, 2011
6:03 pm

Gary was a perfect gentleman, and I appreciate it.

Paulo977

August 6th, 2011
6:05 pm

Dave R. - 3k/4k/5k

August 6th, 2011
6:06 pm

Not that I should have kept reading ben’s post @ 5:58 after the second sentence, but once I got to “Rethuglican”, I just stopped.

Don't Forget

August 6th, 2011
6:08 pm

getalife

August 6th, 2011
5:43 pm

If you have a 401 k or investing in the market, I bet you are freaking out right now.

getalife, not really because I’m at least 15 years away from retirement. There might even be some good buy opportunities if the P/E ratios get nice and low. It’s the additional layoffs and any business closures that would worry me. The second part of your post would worry me if I thought they could pull it off but I don’t think they can.

Brosephus

August 6th, 2011
6:09 pm

Dave

I red Ben’s and Tom’s posts and gave myself a headache…

……………………………………..________……………………
………………………………,.-‘”……………….“~.,………………
………………………..,.-”……………………………..“-.,…………
…………………….,/………………………………………..”:,……..
…………………,?………………………………………………\,…..
………………./…………………………………………………..,}….
……………../………………………………………………,:`^`..}….
……………/……………………………………………,:”………/…..
…………..?…..__…………………………………..:`………../…..
…………./__.(…..“~-,_…………………………,:`………./……..
………../(_….”~,_……..“~,_………………..,:`…….._/………..
……….{.._$;_……”=,_…….“-,_…….,.-~-,},.~”;/….}………..
………..((…..*~_…….”=-._……“;,,./`…./”…………../…………
…,,,___.\`~,……“~.,………………..`…..}…………../………….
…………(….`=-,,…….`……………………(……;_,,-”……………
…………/.`~,……`-………………………….\……/\……………….
………….\`~.*-,……………………………….|,./…..\,__………..
,,_……….}.>-._\……………………………..|…………..`=~-,….
…..`=~-,_\_……`\,……………………………\……………………
……………….`=~-,,.\,………………………….\…………………..
…………………………..`:,,………………………`\…………..__..
……………………………….`=-,……………….,%`>–==“…….
…………………………………._\……….._,-%…….`\……………
……………………………..,<`.._|_,-&“…………….`\…………..

josef

August 6th, 2011
6:12 pm

Damn…
That two-toed cretin would have to be chiming in just as I was about to get all trailer park Native American spiritual

Anyway, Mary Elizabeth, this one’s from Unmentionable to you…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKjd_xLcE_M

Don't Forget

August 6th, 2011
6:13 pm

Jay

August 6th, 2011
6:03 pm

Gary was a perfect gentleman, and I appreciate it.

Good, I was thinking I must have missed something if it was him.

Don't Forget

August 6th, 2011
6:21 pm

Amvet, Entwistle was awesome. I never really saw him as being overshadowed by anybody and he ought to be on anyone’s top 10 rock bassists list, if not top 5.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVl39LBZGMw

Midori

August 6th, 2011
6:23 pm

I need to second that about Tom

I’m a parasite you know – so I couldn’t help but leech

……………………………………..________……………………
………………………………,.-‘”……………….“~.,………………
………………………..,.-”……………………………..“-.,…………
…………………….,/………………………………………..”:,……..
…………………,?………………………………………………\,…..
………………./…………………………………………………..,}….
……………../………………………………………………,:`^`..}….
……………/……………………………………………,:”………/…..
…………..?…..__…………………………………..:`………../…..
…………./__.(…..“~-,_…………………………,:`………./……..
………../(_….”~,_……..“~,_………………..,:`…….._/………..
……….{.._$;_……”=,_…….“-,_…….,.-~-,},.~”;/….}………..
………..((…..*~_…….”=-._……“;,,./`…./”…………../…………
…,,,___.\`~,……“~.,………………..`…..}…………../………….
…………(….`=-,,…….`……………………(……;_,,-”……………
…………/.`~,……`-………………………….\……/\……………….
………….\`~.*-,……………………………….|,./…..\,__………..
,,_……….}.>-._\……………………………..|…………..`=~-,….
…..`=~-,_\_……`\,……………………………\……………………
……………….`=~-,,.\,………………………….\…………………..
…………………………..`:,,………………………`\…………..__..
……………………………….`=-,……………….,%`>–==“…….
…………………………………._\……….._,-%…….`\……………
……………………………..,<`.._|_,-&“…………….`\…………..

Mr Charlie

August 6th, 2011
6:24 pm

Is this the Change Obama was talking about?

Don't Forget

August 6th, 2011
6:26 pm

I missed Ben and Tom’s posts the first time but then I had to look. Stupid me, lol. Sheesh.

Recon (2nd.and 3rd.)

August 6th, 2011
6:29 pm

AmVet,

As much money as he had access to certainly did not make him “as weak as water.” That’s past tense anyway, so it’s really a moot point in relationship to current events.

Paulo977

August 6th, 2011
6:31 pm

AmVet

“Deep within you is everythingthat is perfect, ready to radiatethrough youand into the world”
Gerald Jampolsky

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFYBLwb3I84

AmVet

August 6th, 2011
6:37 pm

DF, yeah maybe overshadowed wasn’t the right word, but he sure was understated, wasn’t he?

And for me, the Who are the greatest band ever. Their gargantuan catalog is overflowing with killer songs.

More Entwistle’s magic…(I own that Rigor Mortis Sets In LP and the whole thing is fantastic.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sntkxdot-OI

Recon (2nd.and 3rd.)

August 6th, 2011
6:37 pm

Be as it may, a new direction is paramount. We can’t continue the spending binge and we have to get it under control before the government begins seeking additional revenue. Additional revenue must go toward reduction in the deficit and politicians generally need to understand that fact of life. Democrats and this White House specifically must understand it.

josef

August 6th, 2011
6:37 pm

FED Up
@ 5:51

O-si-yo, Tsv-s-gi-na u-ne-gv duk-shan-ee nu-da-nv-dv-na!

Wa-se-s-di-na-hna….“du-you-go-dv-i-ya dv-ne-lv-ni-ge-sv-na” ?

:-)

getalife

August 6th, 2011
6:39 pm

Don’t forget,

Yes, there is a buy opportunity but I don’t find any positive data going forward.

I see more jobs lost not added.

getalife

August 6th, 2011
6:42 pm

Del,

We have done it before but this time your party are using terrorists attacks on the economy.

They get it.

Vast Right Wing Conspiracy

August 6th, 2011
6:42 pm

Jay, you have missed the point entirely, again (you do that alot). Let me endeavor to help you out.

Through the twentieth century, when the Democrats went out and spent like a drunken sailor, the Republicans just went along, mainly because they had no alternative for so long, but in recent years through a general lack of spine.

The Dear Leader, however, has thrown out any pretense of spending control (compare the deficit at the beginning of his term to today). As an aside, I can not figure out if he really thinks this will work, or if he is just trying to destroy the country. At any rate, the adults have shown up (Tea Party) to try to save the nation. The jury is obviously still out on that, but we can only pray (I refer you to the event in Houston today).

Jay, here’s why you and the Democrats can not get the money you demand to fulfill your every odd desire – 1. You can not tax enough to get there at this rapidly increasing debt level (there is not enough income, individual and/or corporate, to do that). 2. “1″ is exacerbated by the below market interest rates paid on Federal debt at this time (obtained through the “blue smoke and mirrors” crowd at the Fed, Treasury, etc.), which will have to go back up to historic norms at some point in the near future. 3. Citizens will not continue to be egregiously taxed so various government employees can send in their union dues to the Democrats (see “Wisconsin”), so folks that can will eliminate one out of two wageearners (not worth working at the margin), decrease work hours in general, and head to the underground economy (see “Cuba”, et.al.).

This is a rough time for Democrats – no money, global warming exposed as a hoax, clampdowns on illegal immigration, etc. About all you have remaining is the left’s religious sacrament – abortion (and we will fix that soon enough, also). I hope this has been enlightening.

AmVet

August 6th, 2011
6:45 pm

Brosephus

August 6th, 2011
6:46 pm

Additional revenue must go toward reduction in the deficit and politicians generally need to understand that fact of life. Democrats and this White House specifically must understand it.

What good does it achieve if Democrats and this White House has that tattooed on their stomaches, if the opposing party will not agree to any revenue increases at all? In the grand scheme of things, it may sound good, but it achieves as much as whipping a convict with a wet noodle. In order to achieve any debt reduction, the amount of money taken in has to exceed the amount budgeted. We’d have to cut the budget in half right now to put 10% of what we currently spend on the debt.

How can we cut the budget in half without destroying the country or the economy? If you have a solution, then I’m all ears…

Recon (2nd.and 3rd.)

August 6th, 2011
6:46 pm

Get,

Would you please elucidate on your terrorist attack claim.

BADA BING

August 6th, 2011
6:46 pm

Am Vet. The WHOOOOOOOOOOOO. The Who is my fav band, Who’s Next is my fav album, Won’t Get Fooled Again is my Fav song, Pete is my fav guitarist and songwriter. Moon, Daltry and the Ox were some of my fav musicians. And Pete was a damn good singer, he has some good solo albums. A perfect 10 in my book.

Recon (2nd.and 3rd.)

August 6th, 2011
6:51 pm

“How can we cut the budget in half without destroying the country or the economy? If you have a solution, then I’m all ears…”

How does cutting government spending that’s essentially doubled over only a few years destroy the economy?

Dorothy

August 6th, 2011
6:52 pm

I thought your boy O’ was going to bring the troops home. Well, maybe he meant on his last day in office. Yeah, that’s the ticket. As for the the debt debacle, anyone that can’t see both parties are to blame needs a brain. I’ll speak to the wizard about it.

AmVet

August 6th, 2011
6:53 pm

“Republicans just went along, mainly because they had no alternative for so long, but in recent years through a general lack of spine.

“…global warming exposed as a hoax…”

By whom? Fools and liars? The worldwide scientific community and every credible, prestigious science organization on the planet cares not a whitabout your unscientific pronouncements from the fringe.

No sale, mystery meat.

And the far right wing’s quasi-fasicsts ain’t ever, ever, ever, ever, ever gonna make abortion illegal again.

Deal with it.

A song that goes to the very roots of my 17year of life in Nebraska…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqKclQ7AO44&feature=related

getalife

August 6th, 2011
6:53 pm

Del,

Holding the economy hostage to get a downgrade silly.

The attack on American jobs.

Wake up.

It is the gop strategy “to get the President.”,

Recon (2nd.and 3rd.)

August 6th, 2011
6:56 pm

It’s indeed amazing how Democrat apologists can claim that entitlements do not require reformation, while economists around the world say otherwise.

AmVet

August 6th, 2011
6:56 pm

BADA, saw them twice. Both times were damn near religious experiences for me. The first time, I screamed, hollered and whooped it up so much, I lost my voice for three days.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aa2-ve6BwO0

BADA BING

August 6th, 2011
6:56 pm

Free Credit Check
Dear Mr/Mrs United States of America or Current Resident
Our records indicate that someone at this address has requseted help in restoring their bad credit rating
Let one of our trusted councilors help you on the road to Economic Recovery
Act now and receive a free DVD on how you can balance a budget and build a brighter tomorrow
Free Seminar 3:00 PM August 13 at Ramada Inn South

josef

August 6th, 2011
6:57 pm

ZamVet

Great B & S…

And Unmentionable sends this Cherokee-MOT back atcha…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zWgfzGq5g0

Recon (2nd.and 3rd.)

August 6th, 2011
6:58 pm

get,

Bless your heart but you’re not making cogent points. Silly just isn’t a viable argument.

getalife

August 6th, 2011
6:59 pm

Del,

LaHood called your party terrorists and won.

Fact.

Brosephus

August 6th, 2011
6:59 pm

How does cutting government spending that’s essentially doubled over only a few years destroy the economy?

Government spending isn’t some hole where money is just burned. For example, Lockheed in Mariettia is a byproduct of government spending. Cut that out, and GA’s unemployment rate shoots up. Let’s say we end WIC. That’s less money going to grocery stores which, in turn, is less money going to producers of milk, eggs, and cereal. Maybe those grocery stores and companies can withstand the loss in sales, but maybe they can’t because of the weakened economy.

Look at the FAA deal, you had 4k government employees not working and not getting paid. Some say big deal. I can imagine it would be a big deal if they start having financial issues ending in bankruptcy and/or foreclosure and taxpayers had to pick up the tab anyway. You also had about 70k contractors idled w/no pay. That’s less money being spent on gas, groceries, and anything else the average person buys.

I understand the need to get government spending under control, and I don’t argue that we don’t. At the same time, you can’t just go at it with a chainsaw without doing more harm than doing good. When it comes to GDP, spending is spending, and that’s 75% of GDP here. It doesn’t matter if it’s government or private sector spending, we NEED consumption. If you really want to cut government spending, get the private sector involved in things that the government could afford to cut out. Doing that cuts government spending, but it doesn’t hurt GDP as you have private sector spending taking it’s place.

Don't Forget

August 6th, 2011
7:02 pm

Amvet, Bada – loved the who as well. Never saw them with Moon but saw them a few times in the 80’s and the power coming off the stage was amazing. The only problem with them is that so many of their songs are kind of teen angst oriented and that just doesn’t do it anymore. Loved Who’s Next, Tommy, Quadrophenia etc.

Vast right wing ego, could you please try to be a little more condescending?

Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)

August 6th, 2011
7:04 pm

Well, I see Bob Barr has a pants on the ground blog and there’s lots of good ideas about how to stop it. All we got here is fussing about who should get shafted to pay off the national debt and balance the budget.

I would stay here longer but Certain People with Certain Weird Preferences are here and I’m picky about the company I keep. Have a good Saturday night everybody and don’t forget to go to church tomorrow morning. It will make you feel alot better about all the sinning you’ll be doing next week.

BADA BING

August 6th, 2011
7:05 pm

Should we hold a Country Wide yard sale and raise money for the US? You sell one of your belongings, a chair, an old couch, etc, and donate the money to balance the budget. Everyone in?

Recon (2nd.and 3rd.)

August 6th, 2011
7:05 pm

Brosephus,

The plain fact is we just don’t have the money to spend . I hate to agree with the red Chinese but unfortunately, they’re correct the “good old days of spending beyond our means is over.”

BADA BING

August 6th, 2011
7:08 pm

Don’t Forget, at one time, the Who held the record for loudest concert. I am sure it has been broken, but I know that I have blown out 2 speakers while playing ‘Won’t Get Fooled Again’ with my stereo turned up to 11.

Recon (2nd.and 3rd.)

August 6th, 2011
7:08 pm

Oops, I think they said “borrowing” beyond our means.

Brosephus

August 6th, 2011
7:10 pm

Should we hold a Country Wide yard sale and raise money for the US?

My folks at home already got it started for you. If you head out tomorrow, you can catch the last day. Starts in my hometown and shoots all the way to Michigan…

http://www.127sale.com/

Mary Elizabeth

August 6th, 2011
7:10 pm

To Schroeder’s Cat (and to any orther interested reader),

Last Monday, I had mentioned that I would post, this evening, my extended response to your inquiry of me on July 14th. It is an essay.

On July 14th, you had said to me:

“…all religions are exclusionary in some degree, does that mean they are farther from God or closer to God?” Particularly their God.”
————————————————————————————————————
I have been tentative to share my spiritual views on this blog, because I would not want to misinterpret God’s intent, and as a result, wrongly influence others. I believe that when Jesus said that “no man comes to the Father except through the Son,” he was not saying that he was the only way to the Father. I believe he was saying that he was in a higher spiritual consciousness than ordinary human beings so that he was one with the Father, but that all human beings could be one with the Father if they were to understand Jesus’ teachings and practice them. That way of interpreting Jesus’ words is an affirmation of love and enlightenment, and not a directive from Jesus which is based on fear.

Knowing that my perceptions are unorthodox to some, I prayed to God to guide me in writing my response to you, so that I would not misguide. After I prayed, I opened the Bible randomly, and the page to which I had spontaneously turned was from St. John. Let it be the words from St. John, below, that will persuade readers to God’s intent more than any words of mine. However, perhaps the reader, like myself, will not see a contradiction in the verses, below, with my perceptions that follow.
—————————————————————————
From St. John, Chapter 12, verses 44 – 50:

“Jesus cried and said, ‘He that believeth on me, believeth not on me, but on him that sent me. And he that seeth me seeth him that sent me. I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness. And if any man hear my words and believe not, I judge him not; for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgest him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. For I have not spoken of myself but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.”
—————————————————————————-

Jesus was God on Earth. Jesus spoke for God on Earth. Jesus is the Son of God. But is Jesus the only person to whom God speaks? At one time people believed that only the Pope could speak for God, and then, as a result of the Protestant Reformation, many realized that God could speak directly to the hearts of individuals, and they to him. One can believe that Jesus is the “light” of the world and know that others, too, have found that light through seeking God as deeply as Jesus did. How do we reach that understanding of God? Is it by excluding ourselves from others who believe differently than we do? Or, is it by accepting all others and by knowing that they, also, may have a direct channel to God’s love and thoughts, even though their beliefs differ from ours? Is there a common denominator that would connect all people to one God? What is God’s underlying and fundamental characteristic that might connect all people to one another? The Bible says simply that “God is love.”

Let’s explore some thoughts about love. When you love, deeply love, do you care whether the person you love is a “good” person, or whether the person is of your race or ethnic group, or the appropriate gender, or physically attractive, or intelligent, or emotionally stable, or poor or wealthy? Those who know love in its deepest expression know that none of these divisions matter to the one who loves. Love is beyond mere description, and it comes in many forms, but its overriding characteristic is that it is unconditional. The greatest love is expressed when one gives his own life that the loved one might live.The Creator, being love, demonstrated the depth of his unconditional love for all of his creation when he came to this Earth in the form of Jesus and died, in agony, for every human being – past, present, and future. Considering the enormity of that love, do not religious conflicts, based upon differing dogmas, seem rather insignificant? I believe that religious beliefs can create conflict, rather than communion among people, when their focus is upon dogma rather than upon the love of God. The love of God, however ones perceives God to be, embraces all religions. When the believers of any religion understand the deepest aspects of their religion, they realize that all people – and that all religions – are connected through love. Some fundamentalist Christians are on the wrong track, in my opinion, when they emphasize the dogma that divides, rather than that love that connects. When one loves unconditionally, judgment of others is not dominant; love is dominant, and love embraces all unconditionally.

Let us consider a specific example. Let us say that a person is a devout Jew. Reaching deeply enough into Judaism, the Jew could reach the spirit of God, but he would fall short of “seeing the face of God” if he excludes the possiblity that Christians, Muslims, and all other believers of other spiritual beliefs, may also know God just as deeply as he does. However, when the Jew can worship in his own way, but can also understand that the love of God embraces all religions, then the Jew can become brother with the Christian, and with the Muslim, and with all others, in worshipping the same God. That would include Native-American Indians who have spiritual beliefs that embrace the spirit of God in nature. One of the Beatitudes in Jesus’ Sermon on the Mountain says: “Blessed are the pure in heart; for they shall see God.” If God is love, that quality which would make one most pure in heart to God would be love, and we know love in its purest form is unconditional. Therefore, we know we must not judge those who have religious beliefs that are different from our own, but we must love them unconditionally if we are to be pure in heart and reach the deepest spiritual enlightment possible, which allows us to see the face of God, through love.

You mentioned the phrase, “particularly their god.” So, we must ask: Are there more gods than one god? At one point in our evolution, human beings did believe in many gods, as in ancient Greece and Rome. Now, however, most people have evolved spiritually enough to know that there is only one God, who is the one Creator of this Universe. It is not the fact that religions are separate that would either make us closer to or farther from God, but it is how deeply we reach for God’s love within whatever faith we have chosen that will bring us to the face of God. I had written in my earlier spiritual essay on the nature of selfishness vs. altruism these words about the Pilgrims and the Native-American Indians: “The Pilgrims and the Native-American Indians gave thanksgiving to God, as they individually perceived God to be, for the food they together received and consumed. That is why they remain our spiritual models, today, in how we should receive food and physical nourishment, as well as how we should interact with all others in our mutual quest for survival.” Both groups worshipped their separately conceived God, without intruding upon the other’s beliefs, but ultimately the God that they both worshipped was the same God. Having that deeper consciousness is what bound them together in friendship, and perhaps even in love.

In closing, consider the Big Bang Theory of the creation of the Universe. Before we were, there was God, one God, and through love, he expanded outward in the mystery of creation – dividing and subdiving into myriad elements, particles, energies, and matter that formed myriads of galaxies, stars, planets, life forms, civilizations, religions, and people. But underneath all the divisions, there has been the love, and the one God, of which we are all a part. Knowing this, makes us closer to God and to one another, irrespective of our separate religions and denominations. If we do not see this, then we will have divisions, and dissonance, instead of harmony in relation to others, and, therefore, separation from the totality of God. However, if we do see this, we will have harmony with, and love for, all life, and we will know that we are all forever connected to the unconditional love of God. Ultimately, being able to see the face of God requires an expansion of the love in the soul, rather than the separations created by the judgment of the mind.

Last stanza of “L’Envoi” by Rudyard Kipling:

And only the Master shall praise us, and only the Master shall blame;
And no one shall work for money, and no one shall work for fame;
But each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
Shall draw the Thing as he sees It for the God of Things as They are!

Brosephus

August 6th, 2011
7:11 pm

Recon

As I said, I don’t argue with that point. However, do you wish to lay off tens of thousands just to balance the budget? Do you realize that when all those people lose jobs, that’s even less money coming into the government, which would mean even more cuts? Where would you stop it?

Midori

August 6th, 2011
7:11 pm

Every time I read one of Del’s posts, this voice plays in my head: http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x272/danielakarooster/Droopy_Dog.png

:lol:

oh me!!

oh, my!!!

AmVet

August 6th, 2011
7:12 pm

jo that Guthrie makes me harken back to a time before the Beatles and the birth (for me) of modern music.

My dad had LPs by Tennessee Ernie Ford and Burl Ives. And Mitch Miller was a staple. I grew up loving (most of!) that stuff.

And real Americana/traditional folk music, like these two, have always had a very deep place in my heart…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGNJ8GTr3IU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5Lakexqqqc

out of the blue

August 6th, 2011
7:12 pm

The Who …..”The greatest band ever?” I guess you all forgot about those other four musicians from England who took America by storm, and set the tone that The Who, and other rock groups followed.

I don’t believe I have to give you the name of that group but, I will……..The Beatles.

BADA BING

August 6th, 2011
7:14 pm

Am Vet….if you don’t play ‘Won’t Get Fooled Again’ extremely loud, I mean ‘lose hearing’ loud, you are wasting your time. It comes alive at the highest level, especially the scream at the end.

getalife

August 6th, 2011
7:15 pm

cons want to kill the hostage.

Have ya’ll ever seen anything like this?

Amazing.

josef

August 6th, 2011
7:16 pm

RC

Don’t let the door hit cha where the G-od L-rd split cha…, A-dv-si-qua u-ni-lu-tsv-hi!

AmVet

August 6th, 2011
7:18 pm

blue, I know it is heresy to say that about the Who, but I have one caveat only.

Considering that the Fab Four lasted exactly 8 years and the Who nearly five decades, well…

But you’re right. In the pantheon of rockers, the Beatles are the creme de la creme…

Brosephus

August 6th, 2011
7:18 pm

BADA

If that link at 7:10 isn’t enough to get the yardsale started, especially since that yardsale ends tomorrow, here’s another one that could kick start your idea.

http://www.discoverlookoutmountain.com/antique-alley.shtml

This one is 500 miles of antiques stretching from Mississipppi to Virginia. It runs the weekend after Mother’s Day. The first one I showed you is a bit longer, but it’s almost impossible to cover 675 miles worth of yardsales in only 4 days.

out of the blue

August 6th, 2011
7:21 pm

BadaBing…If you have lousy speakers you might want to upgrade or make sure the watts from your “stereo” (who calls it a stereo) any more? Anyway, make sure your system is compatible to each component….Unless you’re running some $500.00 jewel then expect to blow out your speakers!

BADA BING

August 6th, 2011
7:21 pm

Out of the Blue, greatest ever? I can;t argue about you choice, but I think of the Beatles as world changing event, not a band. I know it changed my life. Things were different after they hit the scene, they were real Earth Shakers.

Recon (2nd.and 3rd.)

August 6th, 2011
7:22 pm

Midori can not make intelligent points of discourse, so she attacks anyone who she SENSES disagrees with her ideology. Pathetic, but it is, what it is and Jay allows her to hang around on his blog while admonishing others who disagree with him to be respectful.

josef

August 6th, 2011
7:23 pm

ZamVet

An unrepentent folkie, I am! Do you know the story of the real Yellow Rose of Texas, Emily Morgan? If not, look her up…fascinating story…

BADA BING

August 6th, 2011
7:24 pm

Blue, I call it a stereo. I am old school. I play vinyl on the old components. Just my choice, I like to look at the album art and hear the low crackle of albums that I bought 40 years ago. It adds to the experience.

out of the blue

August 6th, 2011
7:26 pm

blue, I know it is heresy to say that about the Who, but I have one caveat only.

AmVet, You make a very solid point…I’ll accept that.

Recon (2nd.and 3rd.)

August 6th, 2011
7:27 pm

Brosephus,

I don’t “wish” to see anyone lose their job. Facts that are beyond my control or yours are telling us in no uncertain terms that government will and must cut back significantly to save our country. The salvation of our country is what’s most important to me and to many others.

Midori

August 6th, 2011
7:27 pm

I’m sorry Del — but all you do is whine, whine, whine.

You want it to come off otherwise — much like your alter ego — but it’s nothing but whining.

CJ

August 6th, 2011
7:27 pm

Jay,

If you’re out there, please take a minute to read this piece on the Huffington Post by Dean Baker of the Center for Economic and Policy Research:

S&P made a big point of citing the fact that the debt deal did almost nothing to slow the growth of Medicare and other entitlements, obviously alluding to Social Security. S&P surely knows that Medicare’s cost growth is driven by projections of explosive growth in private sector health care costs…this projected explosion in health care costs will be devastating for the U.S. economy even if we eliminated Medicare and other public sector health care programs altogether…If S&P were being honest, it would have written about the need to fix the U.S. health care system. Instead it talked about the need to cut Medicare.

There are other problems with the S&P downgrade. U.S. government debt and its derivatives (e.g. the $5 trillion of mortgage backed securities issued by Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac) are the backbone of the U.S. financial system and indeed the world financial system. If U.S. debt is in fact less creditworthy, then all the banks and financial companies that rely on its value should also be less creditworthy. Yet, we didn’t hear of J.P. Morgan, Goldman Sachs and the rest being put on the watch list for a downgrade. Why not? Perhaps this is because S&P doesn’t take its own rating seriously…

what does the risk of default on U.S. government debt mean? The debt is issued in dollars. That means it is payable in dollars. The U.S. government prints dollars. This means that if for some reason the government was unable to tax or borrow to raise the money to pay its debt then it could always print it. This may carry a risk of inflation, but S&P is not in the business of making inflation predictions, they are in the business of assessing the likelihood that debt will be repaid….

Baker finishes with “there is no coherent explanation that can be given for S&P’s downgrade. This downgrade was not made based on the economics. We can only speculate about the true motive.” I’m inclined to agree with Baker

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dean-baker/how-to-think-about-standa_b_920148.html

BADA BING

August 6th, 2011
7:29 pm

Blue, Am Vet…..did you get into the Brit Invasion scene? The Mersey Sound from the Beatles era. Dave Clark 5, Peter and Gordon, Chad and Jeremy, Billy J Kramer and the Dakotas, Wayne Fontana and the Mindbenders, Herman’s Hermits, etc. It was a lot of fun for this young teenager at the time.

Don't Forget

August 6th, 2011
7:30 pm

Bada, Amvet,
I’ve definitely rattled a few windows with this one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4xjr9v5ehk

AmVet

August 6th, 2011
7:31 pm

Hell to the yeah, BADA.

Some of it was kinda cheesy, but I loved almost all of it…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOQAKiEurWA&feature=fvst

Brosephus

August 6th, 2011
7:32 pm

Recon

You say you don’t “wish” to see people lose their jobs, but if we cut spending to exactly what was taken in, what else do you think will happen? Personally, I don’t expect to see the private sector to come whooshing in to save the day and throwing jobs out like Mardi Gras beads. What you and others want to see happen in an instant took 30-40 years to happen. We’re not gonna unwind this tangled mess in 5-10 years, there’s just no way possible without killing the economy.

The salvation of our country is pretty much shot to crap. We need JOBS, and not just service sector jobs. We need to build stuff. We need to invent stuff. We need to build the stuff we invent. Without jobs, people have no money to increase demand or pay taxes. Conservatives love to talk about free market principles and the benefit of the private sector over the public sector. What we’re witnessing today is a complete collapse of the private sector doing what it should be doing to keep the economy moving.

Recon (2nd.and 3rd.)

August 6th, 2011
7:33 pm

“I’m sorry Del — but all you do is whine, whine, whine.”

Sorry little girl but you’ll have to play with yourself or find someone else to waste time with you.

out of the blue

August 6th, 2011
7:33 pm

getalife

August 6th, 2011
7:33 pm

Do you cons think you know how our economy works?

Clinton said he does not and w and McCain did not even bother to study it because it is too complicated.

Tell us how our economy works since you think you know .

Do tell cons.

BADA BING

August 6th, 2011
7:34 pm

Blue, speaking of vinyl albums, did you know there are more types of turntables available than ever before? And the new laser turntables will do away with the hiss and noise on old albums because nothing touches the vinyl. Many bands specify that a certain percent of the new music is released on vinyl. And many artists prefer to record on the old tube technology because the sound is warmer? Very interesting.

out of the blue

August 6th, 2011
7:37 pm

Bada, “did you get into the Brit Invasion scene?

To paraphrase Am Vet……Hell Yea!!!! Some Great stuff, came out of that era.

AmVet

August 6th, 2011
7:37 pm

DF, you’re right. That one is meant to be played LOUD!

It’s a hard, hard world…

I’m working at the moment but all this great music is making it a lot more tolerable!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x430XNZhnWs

Recon (2nd.and 3rd.)

August 6th, 2011
7:37 pm

“What we’re witnessing today is a complete collapse of the private sector doing what it should be doing to keep the economy moving.”

We can debate that, and who or what takes responsibility for that, but you wouldn’t like my opinion. The wife, however, wants me to watch a movie with her. Maybe later.

Brosephus

August 6th, 2011
7:42 pm

Enjoy your movie..

out of the blue

August 6th, 2011
7:43 pm

Bada, Yes indeedy I’m aware of all the turntables out there. Have you checked the price on those babies.

They ain’t exactly for the common man. Check out “Audio Alternatives” They’re a fantastic place, and know what they are talking about, and have some of the best equipment available. If you want I can give you there number….ask for Alan, he’s the owner.

Don't Forget

August 6th, 2011
7:44 pm

blue
at least he didn’t call it a hi fi!

jack bull

August 6th, 2011
7:44 pm

is this something that we can blame Bush for(which his book, Decision Points, is really good)?

BADA BING

August 6th, 2011
7:45 pm

I think that the time stamp problem has returned. Is anyone else having posting problems?

AmVet

August 6th, 2011
7:48 pm

Midori

August 6th, 2011
7:49 pm

he even whines when he tries to take me to task for telling him all he does is whine

*sigh*

Ninja

August 6th, 2011
7:51 pm

And it begins.

Dusty

August 6th, 2011
7:52 pm

Well, it does seem that Recon still has his senses about him. Brosepheus is worried about us but can’t understnad that cuts are necessary because cuts mean less jobs. If this country falls into bankruptcy, many more will lose jobs. Ah well. And there is getalife. Always!!

But let us run off and speak in ‘tongues” and play sorry music. Might as well. Rain delay for the BRAVES. Let me go check on them. They know how to play as a team.

Brosephus

August 6th, 2011
7:53 pm

is this something that we can blame Bush for

You could blame the Easter Bunny if it makes you feel all warm and fuzzy inside. Blaming somebody doesn’t mean they’re at fault for anything. That just means you THINK they’re at fault.

Brosephus

August 6th, 2011
7:58 pm

Dusty

Our country would have to be really f’ed up to go bankrupt. We are not that bad off. If we keep losing jobs, then I’ll reconsider that statement. Less jobs means less income to the government. Less income means more cutting. More cutting could lead to fewer jobs. Fewer jobs means less income to the government. Less income to the government means more cutting. More cutting could lead to fewer jobs…. See where I’m going with that?

What you and others are proposing is accelerating the death spiral that our economy is trying to climb out of. Personally, I’d let y’all have your way and just screw this country to nine ways of hell. With my skillset, I’m sure I could easily go to another country and assimilate. Others might not be so lucky.

I have no problem with cutting spending. I just don’t want to cut spending to kill the economy. As I told Del, it took us 30-40 years to get this tangled up, so why do y’all expect things to be solved in 3-5 years?

Bruno

August 6th, 2011
7:59 pm

Love is beyond mere description, and it comes in many forms, but its overriding characteristic is that it is unconditional.

ME–I’m probably the only one foolish enough to answer your post, but I think your characterization of love is not accurate when put into a Biblical context. Certainly Jesus advocated unconditional love, but he also embraced conditional love throughout the Bible by insisting that people follow the rules and do good works or face the possibility of eternal damnation. Not sure about you, but it’s hard to envision eternal damnation as an example of unconditional love.

Spin it any way you want, but the “God” of the Bible was an “exclusive” God in every respect, as reflected by numerous quotes attributed to the Big Guy in the Sky. “I am a jealous God” and “You shall have no other Gods before me”. In fact, other Gods worshipped by other cultures are specifically named in the Bible, such as Baal. And how should those who follow other Gods be treated??

“”If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst.” (Deuteronomy 13:7-12)

You can attempt to reinterpret the Bible all you want, but the exclusivity of the Judeo-Christian God is clear, as is the conditional nature of God’s love.

Dusty

August 6th, 2011
8:00 pm

Well, the Braves are not playing yet.

Does anyone have more info on the shoot down in Afghanistan? Last I heard it was a helicopter with 20 Seals and a few others and a dog. Can’t find anything else at the moment. Terrible news.

AmVet

August 6th, 2011
8:01 pm

Sorry music?

Some people think that being constantly critical is the same as having critical thinking skills…

That early English boojie woojie done to dirty perfection…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9BUfSSxyAs

getalife

August 6th, 2011
8:03 pm

Dusty,

The Huffington Post.

out of the blue

August 6th, 2011
8:04 pm

If this will make you go away msnbc.com has all the info you’re looking for.

BADA BING

August 6th, 2011
8:05 pm

Don’t Forget…… hi-fi? I have a MONO album from 1964, a beatle’s album, and it still sounds great! Blue thanks for the tip on equipment. Do you remember these songs? My favs……Can’t You See That She’s Mine” Dave Clark 5, ” Little Children’, Billy J Kramer and the Dakotas, ‘Laugh Laugh’ the Beau Brummels.

Dusty

August 6th, 2011
8:08 pm

BRUNO

I wouldn’t attempt to answer for Mary Elizabeth.

You can’t seem to get the idea that love brings about the desire to do good works. Jesus loved the sinners as much as others but he hoped they would not miss any of the blessings. If you have something purely good you want to share it with others.

Basing your beliefs on tough stories in the Old Testament is hardly what Jesus taught. He went beyond the Old Testament although that was his background and his education. He brought a new way.

Speaking of good works, I just got a news sheet from Lutheran Ministries of Georgia. You should read what good works are going on in the agencies of Christian denominations. Seems you noly know what you consider bad. Time to read something else.

Bruno

August 6th, 2011
8:09 pm

DF–Awesome Dead/JGB throwdown last night!! Though I vacillate between listening to the Dead and the Jerry Garcia Band, I’m on a Pure Jerry kick right now. Here’s a staple of his concerts, “Dear Prudence”:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92QqkafgUQI

Bruno

August 6th, 2011
8:10 pm

Jesus loved the sinners as much as others but he hoped they would not miss any of the blessings

Dusty–Did not Jesus speak of Judgement Day?? And what happens to those who don’t make the cut??

Brosephus

August 6th, 2011
8:11 pm

Bruno

August 6th, 2011
8:14 pm

“Then He will also say to those on the left hand, “Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels; for I was hungry and you gave Me no food, I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink, I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.” … “Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.” And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”(Matthew 25:31-36, 40-43, 45-46

Real loving dude, your God.

BADA BING

August 6th, 2011
8:17 pm

Blue, Am Vet…..do you remember the Phychedelic Scene bands that hit big right before the Brit Invasion. They all had the crazy names…..The Electric Prunes ‘I had too much to dream last night’…..Strawberry Alarm Clock-’Incense Peppermint’, Bubble Puppy- ‘Hot Smoke and Sassafrass’ were some of the biggest bands.

out of the blue

August 6th, 2011
8:19 pm

bada….Do you want me to sing a few of those numbers. Heck ya I remember every single one you listed…..and it is a fact that I have an extensive collection of those oldies but goodies.

Bruno

August 6th, 2011
8:23 pm

You don’t have to answer me, Dusty and ME. In your minds, I’m simply “Lonesome and a Long Way From Home”. Forget what the Bible actually says, of course.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KPTVq5ERO3c&feature=related

If you want to hear God speak, toss that old book aside and listen to some Jerry.

AmVet

August 6th, 2011
8:23 pm

Take a little dope and walk out in the air
the stars are all connected to the brain.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djuFZe5tFcs

Dusty

August 6th, 2011
8:23 pm

Thank you, Brosepheus(getalife & blue)

That is terrible news. I was hoping what I heard was misinformation. but it wasn’t. That is heartbreaking. Several members of our church are in the military serving in Iraq & Afghanistan. I don’t think this would be any of them but this kind of news just always jars me. I have four sons/one daughter, none in the military at this time, but I can only imagine the sorrow of some mom and dad.

BADA BING

August 6th, 2011
8:24 pm

Blue…..I have about 50 45rpms, with some older hits. Some of the labels are STAX, SUN, ATLANTIC. I can’t really play them, they are heavily scratched from using the old, cheap equipment back in the 60s, but they are good memories for me.

Don't Forget

August 6th, 2011
8:24 pm

Brosephus

August 6th, 2011
7:53 pm

Exactly. That’s why the Jews were so smart to come up with the concept of the scapegoat. Just blame the damn goat and then lets work together to solve our problems. I say, blame the goat.

AmVet

August 6th, 2011
8:30 pm

BADA, oh yeah.

Those were the very crazy beginnings of the real LSD-laced, kickass psychedelia that was to come.

B, that JGB title reminds me of…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IN1J5sMv28Q

Bruno

August 6th, 2011
8:32 pm

I say, blame the goat.

What do you mean, DF?? You guys keep blaming the goat over and over again. ;-)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5WztB6HzXxI

bman

August 6th, 2011
8:33 pm

no democrats announce their bid yet for 2012?

AmVet

August 6th, 2011
8:33 pm

Dusty

August 6th, 2011
8:33 pm

BRUNO

NO problem trying to answer you. You are just looking for something you have not found.

Surely you know in your line of work, that people often create their own hell on earth by what you might call evil actions. Or just read the news everyday and often see “badness” in action.

Jesus implored people to turn from such actions. He called it love. Because love turns away evil and that was what he wanted. Christians are not perfect but they do ask for forgiveness. Jesus told them they had it in a new way.

Would you like to read Lutheran Ministries of Georgia to see a few things that result from love? Or Lutheran World Relief? Or our parish nurse who visits the sick and disconsolate? Or our minister who studied long years to learn all he could about the meaning of being a Christian so he could help others? It is all out there for you to see the wider view.

josef

August 6th, 2011
8:34 pm

Don’t Forget

The scapegoat and the Ragpickers! :-)

Brosephus

August 6th, 2011
8:34 pm

DF

Believe it or not, I have a nametag that says “Scapegoat”. Anytime the “border is broken” horse gets dug from it’s grave to be beaten again, I wear that nametag so my colleagues can work without worry. :)

Paulo977

August 6th, 2011
8:36 pm

josef
@6:57pm
Oh beautiful version of one of my favorites !!!

AmVet

August 6th, 2011
8:40 pm

Hey jo!

Did you see the kickass Knopfler piece I played for you yesterday?

The album title? The Ragpicker’s Dream

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ph6Z30khfVg

Don't Tread

August 6th, 2011
8:41 pm

Hmmm…the idea that government spend less than they take in is now “hostage taking” and then “shooting the hostage”.

I see we’ve graduated up the scale from “driving the car off a cliff”.

Next week the idea that government spend less than they take in will be equated to “terrorism”. And the week after that it will be “armageddon”.

Dusty

August 6th, 2011
8:41 pm

Scapegoats and ragpickers? I’ve heard the expression”that gets my goat”. Is that the same goat??

AmVet

August 6th, 2011
8:43 pm

And the lyrics are right up your alley…

Why Aye Man
We had no way of staying afloat
We had to leave on the ferry boat
Economic refugees
On the run to Germany
We had the back of Maggie’s hand
Times were tough in Geordieland
We got wor tools and working gear
And humped it all from Newcastle to here

Why aye man, why aye, why aye man
Why aye man, why aye, why aye man

We’re the nomad tribes, travelling boys
In the dust and dirt and the racket and the noise
Drills and hammers, diggers and picks
Mixing concrete, laying bricks
There’s English, Irish, Scots, the lot
United Nation’s what we’ve got
Brickies, chippies, every trade
German building, british-made

Why aye man, why aye, why aye man
Why aye man, why aye, why aye man

Nae more work on Maggie’s farm
Hadaway down the autobahn
Mine’s a portacabin bed
Or a bunk in a nissen hut instead

There’s plenty deutschmarks here to earn
And German tarts are wunderschön
German beer is chemical-free
Germany’s alreet with me
Sometimes I miss my river Tyne
But you’re my pretty fraulein
Tonight we’ll drink the old town dry
Keep wor spirit levels high

Bruno

August 6th, 2011
8:45 pm

NO problem trying to answer you. You are just looking for something you have not found.

Still trying to run that BS by me, Dusty?? I think the real problem is that I have found the answers provided by the Bible, but you just don’t like to be reminded of them.

Christians are not perfect but they do ask for forgiveness. Jesus told them they had it in a new way.

Asking for forgiveness = BS unless you change your ways. You don’t have to be a Christian to do that. Some of the most despicable people I’ve met are self-proclaimed Christians. Which only proves that self-analysis and self-declaration are worthless. The bumper sticker I keep seeing is “Christians aren’t perfect, just forgiven.” Out of curiosity, do you believe that crap yourself??

Would you like to read Lutheran Ministries of Georgia to see a few things that result from love?

Dusty, I have no doubt that many Christian organizations do good works. But so do non-Christian organizations. That isn’t the point. The point is the unnecessary exclusivity of the Christian tribe. Parroting a few words and slapping a label on yourself doesn’t mean much to me. Sorry.

getalife

August 6th, 2011
8:45 pm

Back to the regularly scheduled reality show.

Dusty,

Losing seal team that got obl is too hard to put into words.

Dusty

August 6th, 2011
8:46 pm

Awwww 2 to 0 Mets in the second inning of the Braves game. Now that get’s my goat!!!

josef

August 6th, 2011
8:47 pm

ZamVet…
Got that…thanks…

Dusty

August 6th, 2011
8:52 pm

Bruno. I have never been to a church that “excluded” me and they didn’t know what religion I was. That was across the country since I have worked in many parts of the USA..

Do you know that I know some doctors that are not good doctors but they are still DOCTORS? You want to judge the whole group of Christians by a few that don’t meet your standards?

Perhaps you go with a chip on your shoulder. Try going with an open mind sometimes.

Bruno

August 6th, 2011
8:53 pm

Awwww 2 to 0 Mets in the second inning of the Braves game. Now that get’s my goat!!!

Who cares about the Braves tonight?? Detroit is up 3-1 with Verlander on the mound. You gotta keep your loyalties fluid in this world, Dusty.

getalife

August 6th, 2011
8:54 pm

I don’t think Christians believe that using terrorism to get what you want is okay.

I don’t think they believe crashing our economy and get downgraded to win a election is okay.

I don’t think Christians should reward the gop for this unAmerican and unpatriotic spectacle.

Right dusty?

Brosephus

August 6th, 2011
8:54 pm

I’ll catch y’all later… Shut down time here..

Dusty

August 6th, 2011
8:55 pm

Yes, getalife, losing the SEALS was a blow. But losing even one of our military is difficult. Such a sacrifice they make for our country.

Bruno

August 6th, 2011
8:55 pm

Bruno. I have never been to a church that “excluded” me and they didn’t know what religion I was. That was across the country since I have worked in many parts of the USA..

Maybe you need to address that subject with Matti sometime, Dusty. I think her experience was a little different from yours.

Any reason you keep dodging my direct Bible quotes to you??

Dusty

August 6th, 2011
8:57 pm

Wrong, getalife,

You are so far from sensible thought, I won’t even try to correct you. Too bad you go off on the deep end sometimes like you’ve been dropped on your head. Cut it out!!

Thulsa doom

August 6th, 2011
8:58 pm

There are a whole bunch of folks who are equally if not more responsible for this current mess than the Uppity Kenyan Marxist Muslim. Maybe the United States Congress has a little something to do with it?

This debacle started long before January 20, 2009…- AmVet

Amvet,

You’ll get no argument from me on any of those points. Bush and the Repubs do deserve credit for their share of 5 trillion in debt run up during the Bush years. And yes indeed Congress over the years both Dem and Repub have had a lot to do with it. BTW be careful with that uppity Kenyan marxist muslim thing. Someone could mistake you for a con!

Bruno

August 6th, 2011
8:58 pm

Perhaps you go with a chip on your shoulder. Try going with an open mind sometimes.

Dusty–Why do you keep falling back on “There must be something wrong with you if you don’t follow me to church.” There’s nothing wrong with me other than having critical reading skills and seeing the Bible for what it is. And “Christians” for who they are.

josef

August 6th, 2011
8:59 pm

A little late on this one…greatest band of all time? The Travelling Wilburys is my nomination..

out of the blue

August 6th, 2011
9:01 pm

Bada “STAX, SUN, ATLANTIC…..Great lables, great performers. I had two empty office boxes the kind that hold 50 reams of paper. Both were Jammed full of 45’s which like yours were damaged.
Did you used to put a penny on the head of your “needle” to keep it from skipping?

Dusty

August 6th, 2011
9:01 pm

Bruno

When I go to Bible studies I comment on the Bible. Here I tell you what I find to be true. Statements sometimes conflict when there is no study of the circumstance, the history or the intention of the writer.

You have only one intention. That is to prove that Christians are wrong and you can prove it. Faith is hard to prove. Disproval must be easier. You try it all the time.

Bruno

August 6th, 2011
9:03 pm

Bruno

August 6th, 2011
9:06 pm

And Am–Help me out here. I can’t seem to get a straight answer from Dusty. Let her know that I’m proud for her association with Christianity in the same way that I’m proud for josef’s association with Judaism and your and my association with Heathenism. She doesn’t seem to be proud on my behalf for my chosen pathway.

1811/0311

August 6th, 2011
9:06 pm

Headline: “Perry: Turn to God for answers to nation’s woes”

“Possible presidential contender delivered a speech that included prayer and Bible verses.”

Oh the horror …………. he’s doing the same thing George Washington and Abraham Lincoln did.

Dusty

August 6th, 2011
9:06 pm

Bruno,

In your reference to Matti, I don’t always read what she writes. I would say she suffers from a deep depression and expresses exactly that in what she says. Perhaps that is why you like what she has to say. I hope she gets better.

RW-(the original)

August 6th, 2011
9:09 pm

What’s all this nonsense about the Braves being down 2-0?

Funkisha

August 6th, 2011
9:11 pm

“I call on the president to seek the immediate resignation of Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner…”

Geithner should never have been appointed Treasury Secretary in the first place. That self-confessed tax cheat, who conveniently forgot to report tens of $ thousands of income, is now the nominal head of the IRS. What a farce.

Bruno

August 6th, 2011
9:13 pm

I would say she suffers from a deep depression and expresses exactly that in what she says. Perhaps that is why you like what she has to say.

Dusty–I think someone wrote a book in the 70s that captures your philosophy of life very well. It was called “I’m Ok–You’re So-So”. If you were half the Christian you claim to be, you would love her for who she is, as I do and as Mary Elizabeth seems to do. I think josef has even come around to love Matti for who she is.

Dusty

August 6th, 2011
9:14 pm

Bruno,

Now you have gone to misquoting me. Oh well. Stay with AmVet, poor guy. He’s afraid to even say he believes in ……well….Santa Claus. And talk about being “down”? AmVet hasn’t seen the sun shine in the last ten years. He will agree with you that everything (except sorry music) is really really bad. He’s your man!

Thulsa doom

August 6th, 2011
9:15 pm

Speaking of getting your goat I was blogging yesterday and saw a lot of good tunes that I wanted to listen to starting off with the 5th dimension that SOCO put up on the 2nd post. AmVet sent a good one to me. Couldn’t get the dadgum volume to work on any of them. Then tonight voila the volume on all the youtube links is mysteriously working again. Sometimes technology can really git yer goat.

Dusty

August 6th, 2011
9:16 pm

Heck Bruno, I love Matti too but she is not a happy person. Does the obvious upset you?

Bruno

August 6th, 2011
9:18 pm

Now you have gone to misquoting me.

Misquoting you with your own words??

Stay with AmVet, poor guy. He’s afraid to even say he believes in ……well….Santa Claus. And talk about being “down”? AmVet hasn’t seen the sun shine in the last ten years.

And I love Brother Am for who he is as well. So what happened to all your Christian love, Sister Dusty?? All I’m seeing is you slamming your fellow travelers.

BADA BING

August 6th, 2011
9:18 pm

Blue, yes I used the coin trick, and I had a trick to try as a last resort. I would apply pressure to the arm and needle and try to force the scratch down deeper and try to restore the groove. It worked most of the time. I also had some old MOTOWN 45s, with the great Motown hits. I was thrilled when you would buy a 45 for the ‘A’ side, and the ‘B’ side was a hit song as well.

Bruno

August 6th, 2011
9:21 pm

Couldn’t get the dadgum volume to work on any of them.

Doom–Now that you’re acoustically viable again, give a listen to this JGB selection and tell me if the bass line doesn’t get you tapping your toes:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79SdU3ZQ_U0

BADA BING

August 6th, 2011
9:22 pm

josef…..The Willburys? Nothing like covering all the bases with that one, I mean some of the greatest of all time in one band? They were a joy to watch and listen to. Roy’s death hit me harder than Elvis’ death.

Dusty

August 6th, 2011
9:23 pm

RW

Whooppeee…..GO BRAVES…now that’s the way to go. 5 to 2 BRAVES. Those Mets can just dance their way right on back to NYC.
Go BRAVES!!!

RW-(the original)

August 6th, 2011
9:24 pm

Dusty,

The only problem they have now is nobody seems to have told the Mets you can’t hit the ball out of Citi Field.

AmVet

August 6th, 2011
9:26 pm

Evening, Doom. Glad you got your audio back!

There’s more “con” in me than meets the eye! (I just don’t let it out of it’s cage much here!)

45s?! Now that’s old school! I do distinctly remember that you could stack those babies up.

B, I don’t much engage the Queen of Intentional Misrepresentation and Misquotes. (I know, it’s not a very eloquent title.) It’s generally hopeless. She thinks I suck and I try not to think about her at all. But, all I have to do is mention a certain former president and she will cry out like a hit dog. And inevitably say something insulting to me about me.

Not very Christian in my book. But hey! What do I know? Like you, I’m just a heathen…

Religion is a beautiful concept. What man has done with it is, as often as not, very ugly.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8aJXzR3WyI

josef

August 6th, 2011
9:26 pm

I love everybody except Helen Thomas and of course the Ragpickers are a suspect lot. But being a fly on the wall just listening in, y’all all sound pretty much the same, lacking in the same tolerance you’re demanding…it’s unseemly, IMHO

out of the blue

August 6th, 2011
9:27 pm

BADA BING

I would call those the good old days. I am more than likely older than you, but the hits kept on coming. My first ever 45,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJv6X6qAjXA

Dusty

August 6th, 2011
9:28 pm

BRUNO

Observing the obvious is hardly slamming someone. If you think so, you should not be practicing medicine. Just ignore the symptoms and give a diagnosis. Nothing to it!!

You are just flitting around the airways wasting time. Must be hot in Columbus.

BADA BING

August 6th, 2011
9:31 pm

Blue, you may be a touch older, by the way, your blog handle. You didn’t get that from an ELO album , did you?

Dusty

August 6th, 2011
9:32 pm

josef,

R U playing judge tonight? I love Helen Thomas. She was so honest nobody could stand her.

I also love puppies and babies and chicken noddle soup. How come you aint lovin’ Helen Thomas? Is you a heathen??

Thulsa doom

August 6th, 2011
9:33 pm

Bruno,

I’m grooving on Youtube again and some of the other videos people have posted but I just can’t seem to get into the Dead. I respect them for their passion for their craft and their 4 hour shows where they give their fans their moneys worth. And that was actually a catchy tune you sent but overall they just don’t do it for me.

For that matter there’s a couple groups on here that you guys go nuts over that I just don’t get. The whole Bruce Springsteen thing. Let me go ahead and incur the wrath of the music gods now. I just don’t get Springsteen. I just don’t. In 40 years of music that dude has all of 1 song that I like and that’s it. 95% of the stuff on here I generally like.

Josef has sent me some off the wall music- at least off the wall to me anyway, that I actually liked. A little too mellow for my taste but still some entertaining stuff.

Bruno

August 6th, 2011
9:35 pm

lacking in the same tolerance you’re demanding…it’s unseemly, IMHO

I’m only intolerant toward the intolerant, josef. And anyone who doesn’t share my views verbatim. ;-)

I’m sincerely happy for people who find the light through Jesus. I just object to them mis-characterizing what the Bible actually says. And it would be nice if they might recognize that there is more than one spiritual path out there.

1811/0311

August 6th, 2011
9:35 pm

This is why today’s speech by Gov. Rick Perry rings so true. We need the “real church” to stand up and be counted:

“An unholy church is useless to the world. It is of no value. It is an abomination. It is hell’s laughter and heaven’s abhorrence. The worst evils that have ever come on the world have been brought by an unholy church.”

Charles Spurgeon

Alas, our country is full of “unholy” churches and even entire “unholy” denominations.

Just sayin ……………………………

Bruno

August 6th, 2011
9:36 pm

Sushi run.

Doom–Hit me up with something you would consider great music.

Mick

August 6th, 2011
9:39 pm

Life is good, your health is your wealth, count your blessings, taste it, feel it and rejoice in it, better days ahead….

AmVet

August 6th, 2011
9:41 pm

ELO, now that was a great band. And Lynn’s participation in the Wilbury’s cemented his already stellar reputation.

Doom, some of the music “on display” here would stretch anybody’s limits sometimes! But that’s part of what makes it so great.

From their debut LP…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UxSy4Gcn4z8

out of the blue

August 6th, 2011
9:41 pm

No to that Bada…..Before I leave tonight let me post one last song. And, no it’s not The Who, nor any English Group.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c5uQMRM8JWo

good night all.

getalife

August 6th, 2011
9:42 pm

perry lies about everything like w.

Another false prophet.

Burn.

Disgusted

August 6th, 2011
9:43 pm

Those Mets can just dance their way right on back to NYC.

Uh, Dusty—hate to break it to you, but the Mets are playing the Braves in New York City. Put down the bong and back away slowly.

getalife

August 6th, 2011
9:44 pm

dusty is drunk again.

AmVet

August 6th, 2011
9:45 pm

Something a little more radio friendly. This one is such a monster that TR did a (killer) cover.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bci283mfNs

Thulsa doom

August 6th, 2011
9:46 pm

Bruno,

I gotta do it. I just gotta. I’m calling on the priest.

If you’re at all like josef musically you will be pulling your hair out or you would rather listen to fingernails scratching chalkboard. But try it anyway and see if you can make it at least halfway through the song.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RzpHmbwqHLM

getalife

August 6th, 2011
9:46 pm

Mick ,

I like your optimism but do you see any positive outlook for our economy.

getalife

August 6th, 2011
9:47 pm

doom,

You like that lead singer?

Thulsa doom

August 6th, 2011
9:49 pm

AmVet,

Dude I am jamming on that Todd Rundgren stuff. I had never heard of him before. Evuh! Now I’m probably going to have to buy a cd or 2 of his. This video rocks and I really liked the other one you sent from him the other night “I love my life”. Dang I’m glad my audio is working again. The volume gods have smiled upon me tonight. Last night they shat upon me.

Thulsa doom

August 6th, 2011
9:51 pm

getalife,

You talking about Rob Halford of the priest? I jokingly told josef that Rob is the 2nd greatest gay man to have ever lived behind Alexander the Great.

Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)

August 6th, 2011
9:52 pm

dusty is drunk again.

Well, I tried to tell the people down at the warehouse to quit stocking that cheap Jewish wine. No offense to a certain Jewish person on this blog, but the stuff’s rot-gut.

getalife

August 6th, 2011
9:53 pm

doom,

Yeah, when he came out nobody cared.

Rockers are very tolerant except for disco.

BADA BING

August 6th, 2011
9:53 pm

Are there any doctors or nurses on this blog? I saw an interesting article on obama. The doctor wastalking about his hair turning gray quickly and his lips getting darker. It is possible the capillarys (?) in his lips may be rupturing due to an infection, or heavy smoking. Does anyone know of this condition? He has said that he has quit smoking, but some doctors don’t agree. Bush went gray very quickly also, doctors say that a buildup of Cortisol in the body is due to stress.

getalife

August 6th, 2011
9:54 pm

RC,

I agree.

I think she would like the box wine.

Thulsa doom

August 6th, 2011
9:54 pm

ELO greatest hits- an essential to any great music collection. Had it. Lost it. Gotta get it again.

Dusty

August 6th, 2011
9:55 pm

SURPRISE!

I don’t care if the Mets are playing in Detroit tonight. I want the BRAVES to win. Seems they have a little catching up to do at the moment. But; THEY WILL!! Go BRAVES.

getalife

August 6th, 2011
9:57 pm

Bada,

I noticed the vein on the left side of his head is bigger and his energy level is down.

He deals with the gop so the stress level is off the charts.

Thulsa doom

August 6th, 2011
9:58 pm

Bada Bing,

Its only been 2 1/2 years and the man looks much older. I honestly think the weight of the job truly wears on a man like nothing else imaginable. Bush aged a good bit and the difference between Clinton from day 1 to his last day of term 2 is like night and day. Clinton just looked like worn out at the end. I read somewhere that Obama has in fact gone back to smoking. Given the stress of the job I can’t really blame the man on that one. Hell I would expect it.

AmVet

August 6th, 2011
9:59 pm

Doom, outstanding that you get Rundgren. As a big time devotee, I play a bunch of it. BTW, Pogo loves him and Utopia too…

So you wanna play that kind of heavy stuff, eh?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxvV75C1a2g

BADA BING

August 6th, 2011
9:59 pm

Cortisol is a hormone that is released by constant stress. It turns hair gray quickly. Mine didn’t stay around long enough to turn gray.

Thulsa doom

August 6th, 2011
10:00 pm

He deals with the gop so the stress level is off the charts- getalife

Why is it that no matter how much getalife dogs the cons it still just cracks me up.

Shovel Ready Jobs and other Tales

August 6th, 2011
10:01 pm

“Let’s take a look at what else S&P has to say…”

No, let’s don’t Jay. Geez, after their complicity in the subprime crisis you are going to accord them the respect due truly objective parties? You’ve been in the media too long. From the wiki: Economist Joseph Stiglitz stated: “I view the rating agencies as one of the key culprits…They were the party that performed the alchemy that converted the securities from F-rated to A-rated. The banks could not have done what they did without the complicity of the rating agencies.” Without the AAA ratings , demand for these securities would have been considerably less. Bank writedowns and losses on these investments totaled $523 billion as of September 2008. They had clear responsibility for selling America on bad goods…AND NOW YOU ARE READY TO QUOTE THEM IN A COLUMN??? What is wrong with you??? Have you no sense of perspective??

Here’s an idea everyone: S&P is owned by Mcgraw-Hill. I suggest a nation-wide boycott of all their products and let’s put this “ratings agency” out of business. Pass it along and let’s get a movement going. There’s no question the US has been fiscally irresponsible, but S&P having the audacity to downgrade our credit worthiness is pure hypocrisy which WE THE AMERICAN PEOPLE SHOULD NOT TOLERATE. Burn their house down!

Dusty

August 6th, 2011
10:02 pm

Hi RedNeck,

How’s your farce feeling tonight? Still at the ol’ double duty stuff. But I admit, sometimes you are fimmy. In a whole lotta ways!!

Manischevitz is the finest Christmas wine around. When the fruitcake comes, so come Manichevitz. They compliment each other. But beer? Phlatttfff Tastes awful!

getalife

August 6th, 2011
10:03 pm

I don’t have a problem if the President smokes and drinks.

Dusty

August 6th, 2011
10:03 pm

Yeah, ReDNecK, you are FUNNY!!

Bruno

August 6th, 2011
10:05 pm

Alas, our country is full of “unholy” churches and even entire “unholy” denominations.

And let me take a wild guess, Scout. You just happen to belong to one of the “holy” ones. ;-)

Bruno

August 6th, 2011
10:06 pm

Tense finish in KC tonight. Tigers clinging to a one-run lead.

getalife

August 6th, 2011
10:06 pm

“Why is it that no matter how much getalife dogs the cons it still just cracks me up.”

For josef, I am working on my tolerance for cons.

It is tough with their actions but I keep in mind they are still Americans.

Mick

August 6th, 2011
10:07 pm

get

Yes – life is cyclical, what goes up must come down. As for the time frame? Buckle your seat belts could be a rough ride before the smooth landing…regardless, enjoy the ride….on the road now…out

AmVet

August 6th, 2011
10:07 pm

Shovel, hell yeah, count me in. Those scumbags there and at Moody’s were absolutely among the very worst among the the Titans of Criminal Negligence and Malfeasance.

getalife rocks.

Because he is always succinct. The man says a lot with a few words.

Me? I’m almost as gabby as josef. (grin)

Time for some “C & W” Dan…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F565r3ArQy8

Thulsa Doom

August 6th, 2011
10:09 pm

AmVet,

Yeah. Its official now. I get that Rundgren and I dig it. I like the kiss video but previously I had never been a fan of theirs. Then I saw one Kiss video that completely changed my perception of them. If someone’s blood doesn’t get pumping to this song then someone call Bruno and have him check their pulse.

http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=kiss+i+want+rock+and+roll+all+night&view=detail&mid=2E12405A5D0D7B0F04792E12405A5D0D7B0F0479&first=0&FORM=LKVR39

getalife

August 6th, 2011
10:11 pm

I try to keep it brief and to the point.

Yeah, those agencies “never saw the collapse coming” but two have decided.

Thulsa Doom

August 6th, 2011
10:14 pm

getalife

August 6th, 2011
10:06 pm

“Why is it that no matter how much getalife dogs the cons it still just cracks me up.”- Doom

“For josef, I am working on my tolerance for cons.

It is tough with their actions but I keep in mind they are still Americans.”- getalife

AmVet,

I would have to agree. Getalife does rock. I’ve already told him a couple times he’s my favorite blogger. The first thing I look for when I check the blog is to see what getalife is gonna say about the cons today. It never gets old and I have to admire the man’s committment to rankling us cons.

AmVet

August 6th, 2011
10:20 pm

Doom, those first three KISS records all had some great stuff on them. Then I grew tired of them. But I did see them when they were brand new, and that was a wild experience! The guys in front of me were tripping (I wasn’t) and just watching them was friggin’ hysterical.

Back when indoor pyrotechnics weren’t considered so dangerous.

Not long after it came out, I bought A Wizard/A True Star, but it was so weird to me at the time, that I couldn’t listen to it much. It was only later that I was ready for to find out what a gem I had.

However, this is one from that record that everybody loved…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1i7x-IdJwo

Bruno

August 6th, 2011
10:21 pm

Am–I like ELO’s earlier, rockin’ stuff the best. Though I admire the genius it takes to craft a great pop song, I think Jeff Lynne was at his best here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ewaz0Fzewns

Per the Wilburys, to me it came across as forced, the “too many good cooks spoiling the soup” phenomenon.

Bruno

August 6th, 2011
10:22 pm

Getalife does rock. I’ve already told him a couple times he’s my favorite blogger.

Doom, please don’t feed the trolls. Just sayin’

JKL2

August 6th, 2011
10:24 pm

AmVet- BTW, for the Bush sycophants I saw a headline the other day, which read that the security situation in Iraq is worse now than it was a year ago.

I keep forgeting. When was it that obama took charge again?

josef

August 6th, 2011
10:24 pm

ZamVet
Gabby? You’re too kind…I’d go for reactionary!

Getalife
The hard part is tolerating the tolerant, a persnickety and self satisfied lot..

1811/0311

August 6th, 2011
10:26 pm

… — … … — … … — …

getalife

August 6th, 2011
10:26 pm

Bruno,

This is a lib blog.

cons are the trolls but just I just call you cons.

Thulsa Doom

August 6th, 2011
10:28 pm

Bruno,

I’m dead serious. I don’t know why its so funny but I always read getalife’s posts to see what he’s gonna say about cons. He’s always got some rants that have me laughing. It took me awhile to get him and anyone new doesn’t really get him at first. But eventually you just take him at face value and get some good humor out of his rants against the cons.

Speaking of videos you got any hair left or did you pull it all out when listening to my metal.

getalife

August 6th, 2011
10:28 pm

Did ya”ll hear that?

Scout is sending us a coded message.

Looks like he is asking for help.

Any shrinks in da house?

Bruno

August 6th, 2011
10:30 pm

But try it anyway and see if you can make it at least halfway through the song.

Doom–Why would you think I’m not into metal?? As long as it’s quality music, I’m not hung up on what the genre is. I cut my teeth on Sabbath in the early 70s, and enjoyed Aerosmith until they went soft. Motorhead you can keep.

1811/0311

August 6th, 2011
10:31 pm

Bruno:

Read up on the “seven churches” in Revelation Chapter 2.

Not all are up to God’s standards …………. especially the “lukewarm” ones.

JKL2

August 6th, 2011
10:31 pm

getalife- He deals with the gop so the stress level is off the charts.

Obviously not spending enough time with his communist “spiritual” advisor.

AmVet

August 6th, 2011
10:32 pm

JKL2, I wish I read the article closer. I mean what the hell do you want him to do about Iraq? He said he’d get us out of there. Responsibly. Yeah, just like Nixon’s “peace with honor” BS.

The military-industrial complex rolls merrily along…

“too many good cooks spoiling the soup”

Do not ever talk to me again. (grin)

I thought they were faux fab.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NgZuJRjUc6w

Don't Forget

August 6th, 2011
10:32 pm

Bruno, lol, almost forgot about THAT goat. Probably the one we should have been blaming all along.
And yeah the tunes last night were great.

Josef, how’d I forget the ragpickers? Probably need to be more specific though, the Sikh’s aren’t much trouble at all except for the fact that the men are all named Singh.

Brocephus, never would have dreamed you were the cause of all this. Maybe instead of diggin that horse up you should display him kind of like Lenin.

So, did I miss anything good?

Recon (2nd.and 3rd.)

August 6th, 2011
10:33 pm

The Bible isn’t an intellectual study although it is a study. You either believe it was inspired by God’s word or you don’t. A non-believer trying to sell their non- belief to Christian believers is as futile as Christian believers trying to sell their beliefs to those who’ve harden their hearts toward God. If someone is open minded, I’ll witness to them and for those who’re close minded, I don’t waste my time and in that latter category, it’s not that they’re unworthy, it’s just that God hasn’t chosen to open them to a Christian witness. Anyway Taps…sleep well

Bruno

August 6th, 2011
10:34 pm

Doom, those first three KISS records all had some great stuff on them. Then I grew tired of them.

My biggest problem with metal is all the silly posing and posturing they do on stage.

Not all are up to God’s standards …………. especially the “lukewarm” ones.

You didn’t answer my question, Scout. Is your church one of the “authentic” ones?? How do you know??

JKL2

August 6th, 2011
10:34 pm

Cardinals win 2-1. Carpenter almost up to .500 on the year.

stands for decibels

August 6th, 2011
10:36 pm

Alas, our country is full of “unholy” churches and even entire “unholy” denominations.

Do tell. Which ones.

getalife

August 6th, 2011
10:36 pm

jk.

He does not wear religion on his sleeve like perry.

Not a radical Christian if you will.

People that say that they speak to God are certifiable lunatics.

Thulsa Doom

August 6th, 2011
10:37 pm

Bruno,

Loved that ELO nasa video. Much more my speed and quite a moving video- timely too and sad all at the same time now that NASA has ended the shuttle program.

Dusty

August 6th, 2011
10:37 pm

getalife,

The bell tolls for trolls. That’s who.

Not for a lib that will fib.

stands for decibels

August 6th, 2011
10:39 pm

While you’re at it, Scout, awhile back you claimed that there were some regulars here who “loathed the military.” I asked you to elaborate, you never did.

I asked several times.

I’m asking again.

Thulsa Doom

August 6th, 2011
10:41 pm

“unholy” churches and even entire “unholy” denominations.

NIB which to this day I still do not know what it stands for though I have an idea. Nevertheless the lyrics are quite unholy. Geezer Butler with the most awesome bass of alltime.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytwY-atTfpM

Bruno

August 6th, 2011
10:42 pm

This is a lib blog.

That may be, but the cons took Jay and the Libs to school this afternoon. Instead of admitting the cold hard truth that we’re spending too much and the Republicans are the only ones serious about reigning in the debt, all I heard was about how S&P is a crooked company, how the downgrade was due to Republican negotiating tactics, etc., etc. Dodge, Dip, Duck, Dive and Dodge, to borrow a phrase from Am.

getalife

August 6th, 2011
10:42 pm

Dusty,


For Whom the Bell Tolls Lyrics
Artist(Band):Metallica
Review The Song (68) Print the Lyrics

Send “For Whom the Bell Tolls” Ringtones to Cell

Make his fight on the hill in the early day
Constant chill deep inside
Shouting gun, on they run through the endless gray
On they fight, for they are right, yes, but who’s to say?
For a hill, men would kill. Why? They do not know
Stiffend wounds test their pride
Men of five, still alive through the raging glow
Gone insane from the pain that they surely know

For whom the bell tolls
Time marches on
For whom the bell tolls

Take a look to the sky just before you die
It’s the last time you will
Blackened roar, massive roar, fills the crumbling sky
Shattered goal fills his soul with a ruthless cry
Stranger now are his eyes to this mystery
He hears the silence so loud
Crack of dawn, all is gone except the will to be
Now they see what will be, blinded eyes to see

For whom the bell tolls
Time marches on
For whom the bell tolls”

Metallica

JKL2

August 6th, 2011
10:45 pm

AmVet- I mean what the hell do you want him to do about Iraq?

As soon as he was elected, the bad guys went into hiding because they knew we would be pulling out. I’m sure it will be like Saigon all over again once we pull the plug. There is no good solution now.

His weakness has made us a laughing stock around the world. But then that always has been part of his plan. TO make us equals instead of a super power.

Bruno

August 6th, 2011
10:47 pm

Cardinals win 2-1. Carpenter almost up to .500 on the year.

The only important score tonight is Detroit 4, KC 3. Looking like a sweep for me this weekend.

Oh, and the Phillies won again on their way to the World Series championship.

getalife

August 6th, 2011
10:49 pm

Bruno,

Jay wins arguments with facts.

He uses his Lexis Nexis tool and all you got is the google.

I like how the rw managed to get their spin first when using google.

Cheap trick, if you will.

AmVet

August 6th, 2011
10:50 pm

Dusty, you’re no e.e. cummings, but that was pretty good!

At least brother B didn’t Joe Biden me, with that line from Dodgeball. A great movie.

Doom, good old wiki:

The title was widely rumored to have stood for “Nativity in Black” (or to a much lesser extent, “Name In Blood”). In a 1992 interview, Geezer Butler states that the title simply refers to Bill Ward’s goatee at the time, which the rest of the band thought was shaped like a pen nib; also referred to as nibby.[2] Apparently, Geezer Butler said: “Originally it was Nib, which was Bill’s beard. When I wrote N.I.B., I couldn’t think of a title for the song, so I just called it Nib, after Bill’s beard. To make it more intriguing I put punctuation marks in there to make it N.I.B. By the time it got to America, they translated it to Nativity In Black.”

“Nativity in Black” was also used for the title of a series of Black Sabbath tribute albums. Ronnie James Dio can be heard mentioning (but not confirming) this assumption on several live bootleg recordings with the band from the early 1980s.

And yes, that eponymous debut Sabbath was arguably their best.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YCjspyo-_aI

Bruno

August 6th, 2011
10:52 pm

josef–To defend myself a little, in my book, there are two types of tribalism. (1) Proud of your own group, but respectful of others. (2) Proud of your own group, but disrespectful toward others.

I’m proud to say that I’m from Jersey, but I don’t slam you for being from Mississippi or even for being Southern. From my perspective, it’s not enough for Dusty (or Scout) to be proud of their chosen faith, they have to draw a line in the sand and say that everyone else is wrong. Kind of childish in my book. Reb.

AmVet

August 6th, 2011
10:52 pm

Dusty

August 6th, 2011
10:54 pm

getalife,

You should have read a little more.

Ever heard of Ernest Hemingway? Wrote his famous novel “For whom the Bells Toll’”.?

Metallica was just borrowing the line for a song.

The original line came from poetry. John Donne’s ” No Man is an Island”. A line from his poem read “For whom the bell tolls, it tolls for thee.”

JKL2

August 6th, 2011
10:54 pm

Bruno- Oh, and the Phillies won again on their way to the World Series championship.

With the pitching they have it would be criminal if they don’t win it all. Still going to rut for my Cardinals since there are plenty of games left to play.

getalife

August 6th, 2011
10:56 pm

I am not into Satan but I do like his music.

We would go to all the Metal shows.

Metallica is my favorites because of the energy and adrenaline rush of the crowd.

getalife

August 6th, 2011
10:58 pm

Dusty,

I read too much and yeas I have read Heminway.

He wrote high on absinthe.

Don't Forget

August 6th, 2011
11:00 pm

josef

August 6th, 2011
8:59 pm

A little late on this one…greatest band of all time? The Travelling Wilburys is my nomination..

Definitely one of the most talented and diverse bands ever, not to mention how cool they all were. One of my favorites for sure.

Scout, the Perry prayer meeting isn’t controversial because it’s a prayer meeting, it’s controversial because of the comments of at least one of the ministers there. There’s nothing new there. I seem to remember controversy about another minister in the last campaign. If Perry didn’t want the criticism he shouldn’t associate himself with controversial figures, especially when it’s AFTER the controversial comments are made.

Thulsa Doom

August 6th, 2011
11:00 pm

Doom–Why would you think I’m not into metal?? As long as it’s quality music, I’m not hung up on what the genre is. I cut my teeth on Sabbath in the early 70s, and enjoyed Aerosmith until they went soft. Motorhead you can keep.- Bruno

Bruno,

Well allrighty then. That first dead video you sent me was pretty soft so I just figured metal wasn’t your style. Sabbath was my favorite metal band of all time. Along with Iron Maiden and then Judas Priest and Zeppelin a distant 4th. Motorhead I don’t care for either and there is a pretty good deal of metal I just plain don’t care for- just a lotta noise.

Aerosmith has some of the greatest rock anthems of all time but I was never much of a fan of them although I went to a show of theirs at Lakewood. And dang if it wasn’t one of the greatest shows I had ever seen. Still though a girlfriend bought me their cd “just push play” and that was the world’s most God awful cd ever made. 8-9 songs of complete crap. They just mailed it in and put together a load of crap probably because their label told them they needed to produce something. Rather than water boarding at Guantanamo we should make prisoners listen to that crap cd. Metallica is ok to me but I’m not a huge fan of them either.

One thing about Iron Maiden that I love is that much of their music is historically based. These guys weren’t idiots and they liked to write songs that dealt with history, mythology- the flight of icarus, literature like” the rhyme of the ancient mariner” which was my favorite high school poem, etc. They didn’t sing about your run of the mill everyday rock stuff like sex, drugs, partying, teenage angst,etc. You actually had to have some sense of history to get or understand some of their music. Steve Harris I think had a degree in history and lead singer Bruce Dickinson is kind of an amazing guy. The guy is a world class fencer and could have been on the British olympic team but had other obligations. He also flies jet aircraft and he flies Maiden around in their own 727. Pretty cool.

Bruno

August 6th, 2011
11:02 pm

Back at ya, Am with some Tull:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWJgJkVL0xM

Who says a flute can’t rock??

JKL2

August 6th, 2011
11:03 pm

AmVet- More like http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Akoukq5DvAE

There are sheep.
There are wolves.
I am the sheepdog. -Ranger Up

AmVet

August 6th, 2011
11:05 pm

JKL2, I’ve always found it hard not to be a cards fan.

And Phuck the Phillies. (big sh*teating grin here)

Braves pitching takes the night off, it would seem…

Bruno

August 6th, 2011
11:08 pm

1811/0311

August 6th, 2011
11:11 pm

stands for decibels :

Keep asking and keep watching. You’ll figure it out eventually.

1811/0311

August 6th, 2011
11:12 pm

Bruno:

God knows. That’s all that matters.

Thulsa Doom

August 6th, 2011
11:12 pm

AmVet,

Good Grief. I don’t know why the heck I never even thought to look it up on Wiki. I always assumed it might mean Night in Black. Interesting story but it sucks to think it was originally named after Bill Ward’s gotee- takes away some of the mystique. Still the greatest bass solo I’ve ever heard in a rock song. And as for the wizard you sent me is there a better Harmonica out there? There may be an equal but I dare so there are no superiors.

You do know Ronnie James Dio died recently right? I remember he had a long running feud with Gene Simmons where he despised Simmons. He liked to make the statement that Gene Simmons believed he invented air. I like Simmons but he can be on the arrogant side sometimes and I’ve seen a show with him on it where he openly degraded a regular Joe in the audience as being beneath him. Still like him overall though.

Bruno

August 6th, 2011
11:14 pm

Scout–Any reason you can’t answer a direct question?? The jury isn’t impressed at this point.

1811/0311

August 6th, 2011
11:15 pm

1811/0311

August 6th, 2011
11:15 pm

God doesn’t care about juries.

JKL2

August 6th, 2011
11:18 pm

AmVet- JKL2, I’ve always found it hard not to be a cards fan.

The ones I feel sorry for in all this is the Brewers. It was a shame going to a half empty Miller Park (which really is beautiful) when I lived in WI. They have good owners now but still stand little to no chance of winning. Uecker makes all the games fun no matter what is happening.
Something I could hold over most Brewer’s fans was I saw them in the world series (the game Yount let the ball go between his legs). I just left out the part I was rutting for the other side.

getalife

August 6th, 2011
11:18 pm

Scout,

What’s wrong?

You are not posting much.

Bruno

August 6th, 2011
11:19 pm

God knows. That’s all that matters.

So, when you stated “Not all are up to God’s standards …………. especially the “lukewarm” ones.”, how are we to know which are the “lukewarm” ones if God is the only one who knows and is capable of making that judgment?? How do you, a mortal human, determine what God’s standards are, if only God knows?? Sounds to me as if you are attempting to speak for God.

Thulsa Doom

August 6th, 2011
11:22 pm

Bruno,

I’m shouting at the devil. The crew is the only one of the glamour metal bands that I like. And I like them even if Mick Mars looks like cousin it.

Bruno

August 6th, 2011
11:23 pm

Well, Doom, might as well go for the obvious:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4cx1pk0P3o&feature=fvst

I feel embarrassed for putting that Crue selection up now. Maybe Jay will pull it down for me later.

Dusty

August 6th, 2011
11:29 pm

BRUNO

You really should stop misquoting others. Makes your thinking processes look sloppy. For instance, I have never said “everyone else is wrong”. That is just an echo of your usual dialogue against religion. It is nothing I said.

I won’t discuss religion with you any more. Christianity is offered as a gift. You certainly do not have to take it. You know that but you keep fussing about it. But not with me.. Not anymore.

I go to console the Braves who are lagging. G’night…

Bruno

August 6th, 2011
11:31 pm

Doom–I guess you haven’t been around the blog long enough. I’m a King Crimson freak as well as a Dead Head. Doesn’t get much more metal than Red:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WziHTTy_MCs

1811/0311

August 6th, 2011
11:31 pm

1811/0311

August 6th, 2011
11:32 pm

getalife:

Been very busy with a move and was offline a few days.

Bruno

August 6th, 2011
11:33 pm

But not with me.. Not anymore.

No problem, Dusty. Hard for me to take guidance from someone who is incapable of giving a straight answer and denies her own words. You’ll have to get your blog attention elsewhere.

1811/0311

August 6th, 2011
11:37 pm

Bruno:

This is God’s will in a nutshell. Any church that seeks to lead unbelievers in this direction is doing God’s will. All else pales by comparison:

John 6:40

New International Version (NIV)

“For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”

Don't Forget

August 6th, 2011
11:37 pm

BADA BING

August 6th, 2011
9:53 pm

Are there any doctors or nurses on this blog? I saw an interesting article on obama. The doctor wastalking about his hair turning gray quickly and his lips getting darker. It is possible the capillarys (?) in his lips may be rupturing due to an infection, or heavy smoking. Does anyone know of this condition?

I think you can rule out infection or bursting capillaries. The only thing close to that would be DIC which is seen in folks who are deathly ill. You can have a “smoldering” DIC that would not be as severe but you’d still be talking about someone who was pretty ill. As for the gray hair, it’s probably just the stress and it happens to all presidents. There’s likely a genetic component too. I’ve got plenty of stress but not much gray which is just how my mother was. And then there are those who go gray very early, like Bobby Cremins. It doesn’t sound like there’s anything to concern anyone unless there’s a lot more we don’t know about.

Bruno

August 6th, 2011
11:37 pm

In keeping with our religion theme tonight, “Fallen Angel”:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jtZbymtCrGI&feature=related

Bruno

August 6th, 2011
11:40 pm

The doctor wastalking about his hair turning gray quickly and his lips getting darker.

Well, I guess he’ll be okay unless he starts using Michael Jackson’s plastic surgeon.

Thulsa Doom

August 6th, 2011
11:41 pm

Bruno,

War pigs- a personal favorite of mine. No shame in the crue shoutin at the devil- that’s got to be their best in my view. Can’t imagine why you would want Jay to scrub it. Then again war pigs does supersede any glam rock band including even the crue.

Keeping with the theme of war pigs and JKL2 playing eve of destruction I give you this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsLkL8DTHeg

In regards to Jethro Tull they must be the only rock band ever to pull off the flute thing and still sound like a rock band. Oops forgot about Zeppelin.

AmVet

August 6th, 2011
11:44 pm

2, I think every baseball fan loves Uecker. And Yount.

Bruno, Tull was the second concert I ever saw (Alice Cooper, the first). I was blown away (again!)

Doom, when you mentioned that name earlier, I knew there was something…

Speaking of which, Frank Sinatra was particularly impressed with “Something”; calling it “the greatest love song ever written,” he sang it hundreds of times at various concerts.

But George liked this cover the best…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4u0OwmlNfF4

Bruno

August 6th, 2011
11:44 pm

In addition to the stresses that go along with being the leader of the free world, I think a lot of President’s also experience the stress of success. In politics, you can’t get any higher. All those years of preparation, of hoping and working toward getting to the top of the heap. Then you get there and there’s no where to go but down. I think a lot of Olympic athletes probably feel the same way.

theyeshaveit

August 6th, 2011
11:45 pm

This is God’s will in a nutshell. Any church that seeks to lead unbelievers in this direction is doing God’s will. All else pales by comparison

Scout,

S&P has more credibility than the Bible. Even the Tea Party has more credibility than the Bible. And as for “good” books, I prefer Dostoyevky’s “Crime And Punishment” or Pynchon’s “V” to the Bible.

theyeshaveit

August 6th, 2011
11:47 pm

Bruno,

Hard to say unless you’ve been there. Personally, I’d rather deal with being an Olympic champion, let’s say the gold medalist in the 400 meter dash. :-)

theyeshaveit

August 6th, 2011
11:48 pm

AmVet,

Did you ever catch the U2 event wherein Bono feated Frank Sinatra?

AmVet

August 6th, 2011
11:51 pm

Great stories about those guys, Doom. Interesting cats.

But for me, it is always about what I like. Not really who they are or how they look or anything much else.

If what I hear is soemthing I dig, I make no excuses for it. As I’ve said, it’s rock and roll – they aren’t any rules…

I thought we were all spose to be free

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3crB03oDXQ

Bruno

August 6th, 2011
11:53 pm

For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”

Scout, every Christian church in America preaches John 6:40. Got anything else??

S&P has more credibility than the Bible.

eyes–I don’t mind setting the credibility question aside when discussing the Bible. It’s just as much fun to find out how little self-professed Christians know about the document. Mary Elizabeth earlier was trying to claim that the Bible preaches only unconditional love and that the Christian God isn’t an “exclusive” God. Scout claims that only God can judge whether a church is “authentic” or not, but makes veiled indications that he can as well. I’m really not sure what Dusty’s point was since she wouldn’t answer a direct question and denied her own words.

Now, DF, he’s been pretty silent tonight, though I suspect he could probably share something of greater value with us if he chose to. Smart cookie, that DF.

Thulsa Doom

August 6th, 2011
11:54 pm

AmVet,

That was a nice James Brown song that of course most people like myself had never heard before. A good rule of thumb for me is that if someone doesn’t like James Brown I got no use for them.

Bruno,

I’ll diverge from the theme of angels and go to faeries.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EvuI8d57N9I

Bruno

August 6th, 2011
11:54 pm

Hard to say unless you’ve been there. Personally, I’d rather deal with being an Olympic champion, let’s say the gold medalist in the 400 meter dash

And I’d settle for being the bar for the woman’s high jump. ;-)

theyeshaveit

August 6th, 2011
11:59 pm

Bruno,

As Josef would say, “I don’t carer who you are, that was funny.” lol

theyeshaveit

August 7th, 2011
12:04 am

It’s the midnight hour and you know what that means – The Rocky Horror Show!

Scout, parental discretion is advised.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4BZl7pR-65c&feature=related

Don't Forget

August 7th, 2011
12:04 am

AmVet

August 7th, 2011
12:04 am

Evening, eyes.

I’m still working over here in Doraville. (On the other screen.)

And the King Crimson is working nicely right now, B.

So, the music and the interesting people here, make it go that much better.

And though I’m a U2 fan (kinda), I’m not up on them much at all. But what a great pairing! And the legacy of that can be seen when you got to rock shows now and there are three generations there.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3woNLLWavM

1811/0311

August 7th, 2011
12:04 am

theyeshaveit :

……………… and, you have made your decision for eternity.

TAPS !

Bruno

August 7th, 2011
12:06 am

and, you have made your decision for eternity.

And once again, I thought only God could make that determination.

Is it my imagination, or does Scout seem to have some kind of God Complex working here??

theyeshaveit

August 7th, 2011
12:07 am

DF,

That is quite possibly my favorite tune by the Band.

Thulsa Doom

August 7th, 2011
12:07 am

AmVet,

Interesting cats. Were you talking about Maiden? I dig them because their music rocks for me. It was just a bonus that they were interesting guys that are also thinkers. And how many rockers pilot their own 727? Its downright funny when you think about some long haired metal head flying a jet.

That last Rundgren song I have heard somewhere I think. I just didn’t know it was him.

I haven’t pulled the ultimate shut up card on anyone but if someone ever just drives you nuts and you want to tell them to shut the F up then this is the ultimate song to do it. I pulled this card on my girlfriend one time when we were arguing in the car. I pulled out the cd, plugged it in and calmly said to her that she was right and that we should just both be quiet and listen to some music. When she started paying attention to the lyrics of this song it was ON all over again. You gotta listen to this one all the way through.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jIMLaIieko0

Bruno

August 7th, 2011
12:09 am

Almost time to take the weight off.

DF–Though I’m supposed to love The Band because I’m a Dead Head, they just never did it for me. I do, however, like this Robbie Robertson number that Am put up a while back:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4KP9PNSUME4

(Pardon the VEVO commercial at the beginning)

theyeshaveit

August 7th, 2011
12:09 am

Scout,

I was raised Catholic. At the last moment, I could also wiggle out and make my confession. Didn’t you hear that there are no atheists in fox holes?

theyeshaveit

August 7th, 2011
12:12 am

Bruno,

While it is easy to see that Scout has a God fixation, I’m not so sure it works the other way around. I mean what if…just what if….God a’int Christian. I mean God forbid, God is Krishna or Buddha or the Great Father or Tom Cruise’s alien god.

Don't Forget

August 7th, 2011
12:15 am

Bruno, just now catching up after staying away for awhile. Not sure what that says about how bright I am, lol

As for the women’s high jump bar, I think you’d like the balance beam better. I know I would.

theyeshaveit

August 7th, 2011
12:15 am

Quite possibly the best Tom Petty song that you might not have heard of…

Something Good Coming…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSvlJe1mwlw&ob=av3e

Bruno

August 7th, 2011
12:15 am

Brother Am–Brother josef seems to have some kind of problem with me poking holes in these Christian windbags that hang out here. Am I out of line to do so?? If you say the word, I’ll drop the topic. Not worth getting on josef’s bad side to embarrass a few lamers.

theyeshaveit

August 7th, 2011
12:19 am

DF,

Tell you what, the female athletes of today are far more deserving of the appellation “babe” than Babe Didrikson Zaharias. And too bad about Marion Jones – no track and field medals and no WNBA team.

Thulsa Doom

August 7th, 2011
12:20 am

Bruno and AmVet,

Forgot to tell you the King Crimson was right up my alley. Don’t know if you like Cake or not. They have quickly become one of my favorite bands. I bought a cd and it was one of those cds that there wasn’t a song on it that I didn’t like. Not one. And that to me is the mark of a great group. My selection at 12:07 is cake and here is another good one that you probably already know.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__PU5CVSegg

Bruno

August 7th, 2011
12:20 am

Bruno, just now catching up after staying away for awhile. Not sure what that says about how bright I am, lol

DF–I know that you are sincere in your beliefs and that you live your beliefs. My unkind words weren’t directed your way at all. It’s probably a fault of mine, but when stupid people try to pervert the sacred for their miniscule, selfish agendas, it really gets under my skin. Ditto for some of the stupid conservatives who come on here armed with nothing but insults.

I’ll try to grow past that smallness on my part.

theyeshaveit

August 7th, 2011
12:25 am

That’s it for me. I feel like picking up my ax (a Martin O-18, circa 1970) and learning that Tom Petty song. Off to download the lyrics. Night all.

Thulsa Doom

August 7th, 2011
12:26 am

I’m almost done for the night guys but I leave you with my ultimate chilling song. I think brocephus would like this one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZ1tF6LgB40

Don't Forget

August 7th, 2011
12:26 am

Bruno, love that RR tune. It has kind of a Ken Nordine word jazz flavor with it. The rest of the album is pretty good too.

Here’s the title track.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjCw3-YTffo

It’s too bad he doesn’t tour but he spent so many years playing lead in Ronnie Hawkins band that he just hates being on the road. I can really relate to that lately.

AmVet

August 7th, 2011
12:26 am

Dudely B, hell (get it?) no. if you’re out of line, I’m off the page! You’ve been respectful, if not direct. These are fundamental and fascinating questions and ideas we struggle with. I say let ‘er rip.

Man, you just gotta love that Rocky stuff, eyes! So cheesy, so great.

Yeah, that Robertson song does have a great feel to it and shows off his sizable talent, doesn’t it B?

Bruno

August 7th, 2011
12:28 am

As for the women’s high jump bar, I think you’d like the balance beam better. I know I would.

I hear you , DF, but personally, a brief butt rub from one of the lithe high jumpers would do more for me than a full face-sit from one of the short, squat gymnasts. At the 1996 Olympics, I had tickets to the track and field finals, and watching the women high jumpers was the highlight of the evening.

Don't Forget

August 7th, 2011
12:32 am

Anybody here ever see the Nighthawks? They were a rockabilly band that never made it big but they were a lot of fun to see. Their lead guitar was pretty damn good.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwjEKi0B5g8&feature=related

moonbat betty

August 7th, 2011
12:35 am

Bruno

August 7th, 2011
12:36 am

Don’t know if you like Cake or not.

Not.

Quite possibly the best Tom Petty song that you might not have heard of…Something Good Coming…

eyes–You just earned yourself a Best In Show award for that selection. Thanks for sharing it.

Uncle Jed

August 7th, 2011
12:36 am

a “smoldering” DIC that would not be as severe but you’d still be talking about someone who was pretty ill.
++++++++++++++

I painfully disagree. A smoldering DIC sounds pretty darn severe, to this ol’ boy ;-)

Bruno

August 7th, 2011
12:40 am

I painfully disagree. A smoldering DIC sounds pretty darn severe, to this ol’ boy

I’m confused anyway, Uncle Jed. I thought it was Clinton who suffered from a smoldering DIC. As far as I know, Obama is a good family man.

DF–Enjoying the heck out of that Nighthawks tune.

AmVet

August 7th, 2011
12:43 am

Watching Campbell play that sweet Rickenbacker, in what looks like a guitar store, is very, very cool. Petty is obviously a genius. No doubt starting with that eponymous debut album (I’ve got to use that phrase twice tonight!), and that fine American Girl.

B, that Olympic Stadium was awesome excellent, wasn’t it? I went to lots of events and tried to be down at the park every night. I was there when Rudolph’s little present went off. Crazy times.

A decade and still an irreplaceable, almost inconsolable loss for me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-l1y0gnSnI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=raH8HBpkkpY&feature=related

Don't Forget

August 7th, 2011
12:43 am

Jed, not as severe but yes still severe usually caused by cancer whereas full blown DIC occurs with sepsis more than anything else.

Bruno

August 7th, 2011
12:44 am

Third repeat for me, but I can’t get this Mudcrutch tune out of my head. AmVet, you’re excused from listening:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KEsJFVM2J7w

Bruno

August 7th, 2011
12:46 am

Uh, DF, I think you missed Uncle Jed’s point.

AmVet

August 7th, 2011
12:50 am

Monstrously fine finish, Doom. That is my fave 3DN song.

That is such a fantastic song the Nighthawks covered. And they have an authentic new age take on those early English and American bands covering that stuff.

Don't Forget

August 7th, 2011
12:52 am

Amvet, didn’t comment on your Tull post earlier but I loved that band. Thick as a Brick is one of my all time favorites.

Everybody has a favorite Beatle too, mine was definitely George by a pretty large margin.

Bruno

August 7th, 2011
12:56 am

Am–Hard to believe 10 years has gone by since Harrison’s passing.

Kurt Vonnegut Jr had some interesting terminology for the various conglomerations that we humans form.

“A “wampeter” is an object around which the lives of many otherwise unrelated people may revolve. The Holy Grail would be a case in point. “Foma” are harmless untruths, intended to comfort simple souls. An example: “Prosperity is just around the corner.” A “granfalloon” is a proud and meaningless association of human beings. Taken together, the words form as good an umbrella as any for this collection of some of the reviews and essays I’ve written, a few of the speeches I made.”

Using this terminology, George’s followers were definitely a “wampeter”. “Hope and Change” a “foma”. And the JB blog?? A “granfalloon” all the way!!

(I’ll have to make sure that JB sees this post tomorrow. What would he do without Bruno hanging around??)

Don't Forget

August 7th, 2011
12:58 am

Bruno

August 7th, 2011
12:46 am

Uh, DF, I think you missed Uncle Jed’s point.

Oh crap, yeah I did. ROFLMAO. Guess I should mention that DIC is disseminated intravascular coagulation. Considerably worse no matter how you look at it.

Bruno

August 7th, 2011
1:03 am

Well, DF, I’d invite you to join the Blog Brotherhood, but I don’t think that you have the requisite level of immaturity. Maybe you can be our Patron Saint.

Mary Elizabeth

August 7th, 2011
1:04 am

Jesus said the two greatest commandments are, first, to love God with all of your heart and mind. The second is to love your neighbor as yourself. Therein lies complete spiritual understanding (according to Jesus, paraphrased).

One does not have to concern oneself about other expectations or “rule” fulfillments of God, if one loves in those two ways, which fulfill all the laws and the prophets, according to Jesus. In loving all humankind and the God of all, our love is transformed into love that is unconditional because it becomes all inclusive – love of God and of all humanity – and so we can set no conditions upon that love, if we fulfill Jesus’ guidance to us for spiritual enlightenment.

I see that as spiritual enlightenment beyond any particular religion.

Mary Elizabeth

August 7th, 2011
1:09 am

Goodnight all. The 1:04 post was just an expansion of earlier thought before I go to bed.

Don't Forget

August 7th, 2011
1:09 am

Bruno I can hang with the best on immaturity, I was just in “professional” mode for a medical question.

Bruno

August 7th, 2011
1:09 am

ME–Nice sentiment, but the threat of eternal damnation just isn’t going away if you truly believe in the Bible. That is, unless you feel free to pick and choose the words you like and toss the rest. Did you give your English students that freedom when they did their book reports??

http://blogs.ajc.com/jay-bookman-blog/2011/08/06/credit-downgrade-by-sp-unfortunately-is-deserved/?cp=15#comment-678963

Bruno

August 7th, 2011
1:13 am

Well, DF, tomorrow is my last of 28 days in a row without a day off. I’d better hit the hay so I can at least pretend to be alert tomorrow. As always, an honor and pleasure to share your company.

Don't Forget

August 7th, 2011
1:18 am

Likewise Bruno. No point in staying up for me either when I’m this tired.

Mick

August 7th, 2011
1:26 am

And to all a good night….

Fred

August 7th, 2011
1:39 am

Bruno

August 7th, 2011
1:13 am

Well, DF, tomorrow is my last of 28 days in a row without a day off. I’d better hit the hay so I can at least pretend to be alert tomorrow. As always, an honor and pleasure to share your company.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

28 days and you STILL haven’t solved that problem? Let me help you, you forgot to carry the one in the first equation………….

Mary Elizabeth

August 7th, 2011
2:38 am

Bruno@1:09

Here are the words you linked to which Jesus said:

“Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.” And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”(Matthew 25:31-36, 40-43, 45-46″

Then you said about Jesus’ words: “Real loving dude, your God.”

——————————————————–

Jesus was saying was that “when you do not do for the least of humankind, you do not do to him” because God is within all human beings, and God has told us that we should love all others as we love ourselves. Remember the second commandment that Jesus said of loving your neighbor as yourself. This was not being done in the scripture you gave. Just as I said in my first post of the day, that “We reap what we sow,” politically, so those that do not love their fellow human beings and do right by them will “reap what they have sown” spiritually since they have had a cold heart to their fellow human beings. Without consequences, life would become shallow and vapid, or a fairyland or a dreamland and not real. In the Bible verse I quoted in my 7:10 p.m. post from St. John, Jesus said that he would not judge others because he had come to save others and not to judge them, but that God would judge on the last day. How God judges is not for me to determine. I, like Jesus, simply say what I feel I must say and move toward the light in my own soul and with my words (Unorthodox though my words may be to some, for me they are right because I trust the Holy Spirit within). The judgment I will leave to God, but I do believe that His judgment will be fair, because God is love, according to the Bible. “Everlasting punishment” may mean that the person’s heart was so cold that even in eternity the person’s soul will not reach the light, or the face of God, because the person’s soul is so dark and small. That is not God’s doing, that is because that person chose not to love which would have expanded his heart and would have allowed him to move to the light.

We tend to think of Heaven and Hell as places, but they could be states of mind and that what state of mind we are in here, or develop into here, is what is carried over into the Other Side when we die. Again, I leave that judgment to God, but I know that one who loves, as God does, does not want harm to come to another so I believe that God does not want harm to come to us on the Other Side. It is not that He will literally be a judge as we commonly think of a judge in a black robe saying “in or out of Heaven”, but that He will know who has light within his or her soul and who does not. Those who do have the light not cannot enter the light of Heaven because they already have no light within their souls with which to connect to the eternal light.

I do believe that God loves unconditionallly or he would not have Himself come to Earth as Christ and have died for all of us. It will probably pain Him – as it would any parent – to see his child not be able to enter the light, but the child cannot enter because there is no light in him or her to do so, not because God “cut him out.”

You seem to be fighting with God, Bruno. I hope you experience his love in a real way in the coming days of your life. I answered your post this evening not because I wanted to, but because I felt that God was asking me to respond to you. I almost did not get out of bed and come back to this computer to respond to you, but the impetus was so strong, coming from God I felt, that I knew I must.

All is not simply in the Bible. There is God, Christ, and the Holy Spirit, if you have been taught Christian doctrine. The Old Testament has the perceptions of who God was held by the prophets and others of their day, and those perceptions of who God was/is evolved over time to be reflected, at the right time in the history of human spiritual evolution, through the words of Jesus in the the New Testament. Then, there is the Holy Spirit – which is what I lean so much upon for spiritual growth. That Holy Spirit embraces all religions and all people – deep within their individual souls. One simply has to reach deeply enough for it. We find it not with our minds, but with our hearts, and when we do we become larger, better people.

Mary Elizabeth

August 7th, 2011
2:49 am

Correction. This key sentence should have read thus:

Those who do not have the light cannot enter the light of Heaven because they already have no light within their souls with which to connect to the eternal light.

Fred

August 7th, 2011
3:06 am

ME: That was a short “Bruno Break” lol.

Bud Wiser

August 7th, 2011
7:26 am

My God, someone correct me…..have I been asleep, unconscious or just simply passed out?

Surely something of this magnitude, this colossal economic policy failure, this lack of leadership, this first time ever downgrade of US credit rating, this historical moment, begs this very question:

Is George W. Bush still President?

What’s that you say…..no?

Who is……Barack WHO?

Man, there are moments in life that scream for whiskey, and this is one of those.

I’ll mull it all over carefully of course, while I ride out to LA in my corporate jet, drinking Bushmills.

Jack

August 7th, 2011
7:50 am

If I wanted to hear a sermon, I’d go to church. The whole thing amounts to this: liberals cannot accept the fact that some people are tired of supporting a segment of the population that was born on the dole and continue to believe they are due support from the government for their entire lives.

Bruno

August 7th, 2011
8:29 am

I do believe that God loves unconditionallly

Sorry, ME, but I’m going to have to call you out like Scout and Dusty. The word “unconditional” means without conditions. Pretty simple concept. God, as the Creator, sets all the rules, and is the only Judge on Judgment Day. Sending someone into eternal damnation cannot be construed as a loving act, no matter how you try to spin it. Eternal means forever, without any chance for redemption. And this Judgment is based upon meeting certain conditions of behavior as the Bible clearly states in several places. To try to change the words around because they don’t conform to your personal vision of a Loving God is pure bunk. The Bible says what it says. Deal with it.

You seem to be fighting with God, Bruno.

No, Me, I’m fighting with you, Dusty and Scout. Are any of you three God?? Didn’t think so. But, for some reason, when you can’t defend your misinterpretations of the Bible, you immediately fall back on the old “What’s wrong with YOU?”. There’s nothing wrong with me, ME, other than the fact that I have critical reading skills.

I, like Jesus, simply say what I feel I must say

And now you’re comparing yourself to Jesus?? And you’re sure that I’m the one who might have something wrong with them?? Kind of like your qualification the other night that you prayed for the Holy Spirit to guide you so that you knew you were speaking on behalf of God. There are some terms in psychology which describe this elevated sense of self. I’ll leave it up to you to find them.

I answered your post this evening not because I wanted to, but because I felt that God was asking me to respond to you.

And the Son of Sam claimed that a labrador retriever told him to kill. You got a point??

All is not simply in the Bible.

As I’m noticing. The only problem with people making up stuff as they go along is that we ultimately can’t know our own motives fully. Though I’m SURE that you will only ascribe “good intentions” to your own motives, no one has the self-awareness to do so. As Kurt Godel proved mathematically, ultimately meaning can only come from outside of a system, it can’t be found within the system itself. And for you to claim that you are somehow above this simple truth comes across as a little scary to me. Neither you, me, Dusty nor Scout is walking on water, as much as we would like to believe we are. In the end, we’re dirty, smelly human beings who have the capacity to do both good and evil. Some people are honest about that fact, and don’t go around claiming to speak for God as a result. Others apparently can’t deal with the truth and try to wrap themselves in holy robes instead. You’re no better than me and I’m no better than you. Any reason you can’t simply accept this fact??

Focus on the problem

August 7th, 2011
8:30 am

Why do we have a huge deficit and excessive debt?

1. The recession. Due to the recession millions of Americans are experiencing long-term unemployment. We need jobs programs.
2. The wars. We have mulitiple wars that have cost us well over $1 trillion and instead of raising taxes to pay for them, Bush cut taxes.
3. Bush’s tax cuts (that Obama extended). The wealthiest Americans have seen their incomes and assets rise since the recession started in 2008. Now, the wealthiest 400 Americans hold more assets than the bottom 50%.
4. The military budget has grown 110% since 2001. If we cut spending in this area by 80% we’d still be spending more than the next biggest spending country. We can certainly cut spending by at least 25%.

The wealthy should be paying more in taxes. We should shrink the miltary budget. We need jobs programs.

Brosephus

August 7th, 2011
8:43 am

For anybody interested in reading a summary of the debt debate, here’s an interesting read, complete with quotes from some key players…

Origins of the debt showdown

Makes more sense about S&P’s decision knowing they based part of their reasoning on political climate and the last-minute brinksmanship. I don’t agree with S&P, but after listening to an interview with John Chambers this morning, I understand their logic.

carlosgvv

August 7th, 2011
8:49 am

Mary Elizabeth

Jesus did not leave any written material. The only sources of what he said are in the Gospels. The earliest Gospels we have are copies of copies. We do not know who actually wrote the Gospels. Therefore, we do not know what Jesus actually said. We only have copies of copies of what unknown writers said he said. And yet, you quote scripture as though it were a proven fact that it accurately conveys the words of Jesus. I wonder why that is?

jt

August 7th, 2011
8:50 am

I just know that………………….deep in my heart…………I know……………that God or the Prince of Peace …..wouldn’t want Barney Frank,Obama, or any other Washington politician ………………..to have ANY MORE MONEY.
.
They do terrible……evil……… things with it.
.
And the two above mentioned people would agree with the TEA partiers.
.
Get Obama behind thee.
.
Vote for a good decent, peace-loving man with the record to prove it………..Ron Paul 2012.

Reving it up

August 7th, 2011
8:56 am

“For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Walk as children of light (for the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness, righteousness, and truth), finding out what is acceptable to the Lord. And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them.” Ephesians 5:8-11

“Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil walks about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour. Resist him, steadfast in the faith….” I Peter 5:8-9

“…everyone who partakes only of milk [elementary teaching] is unskilled in the word of righteousness, for he is a babe. But solid food [solid Biblical teaching] belongs to those who are of full age, that is, those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.” Hebrews 5:12-14

Don't Forget

August 7th, 2011
9:14 am

Jack

August 7th, 2011
7:50 am

The whole thing amounts to this: liberals cannot accept the fact that some people are tired of supporting a segment of the population that was born on the dole and continue to believe they are due support from the government for their entire lives.

Jack,
If I believed what you say you could convert me to your side. If what you say is true, why aren’t the R’s proposing cuts in those programs (presubably welfare) instead of cuts in SS and medicare. There may have been some truth to what you say before the welfare reform of the 90’s but this is no longer true. If you can back up what you say, please do.

Brosephus

August 7th, 2011
9:16 am

Hmmmm… I remember back in 2010 that there were many who were cheering for gridlock in DC. Well, the elections brought gridlock to DC, and gridlock is what ultimately led to the downgrade. Here’s a link to S&P’s report if anybody’s interested in reading it…

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/documents/spratingreport_080611.pdf

Rationale
We lowered our long-term rating on the U.S. because we believe that the
prolonged controversy over raising the statutory debt ceiling and the related
fiscal policy debate indicate that further near-term progress containing the
growth in public spending, especially on entitlements, or on reaching an
agreement on raising revenues is less likely than we previously assumed and
will remain a contentious and fitful process. We also believe that the fiscal
consolidation plan that Congress and the Administration agreed to this week
falls short of the amount that we believe is necessary to stabilize the
general government debt burden by the middle of the decade.

[...]

The political brinksmanship of recent months highlights what we see as
America’s governance and policymaking becoming less stable, less effective,
and less predictable than what we previously believed. The statutory debt
ceiling and the threat of default have become political bargaining chips in
the debate over fiscal policy. Despite this year’s wide-ranging debate, in our
view, the differences between political parties have proven to be
extraordinarily difficult to bridge, and, as we see it, the resulting
agreement fell well short of the comprehensive fiscal consolidation program
that some proponents had envisaged until quite recently. Republicans and
Democrats have only been able to agree to relatively modest savings on
discretionary spending while delegating to the Select Committee decisions on
more comprehensive measures. It appears that for now, new revenues have
dropped down on the menu of policy options. In addition, the plan envisions
only minor policy changes on Medicare and little change in other entitlements,
the containment of which we and most other independent observers regard as key
to long-term fiscal sustainability.

[...]

Our opinion is that elected officials remain wary of tackling the
structural issues required to effectively address the rising U.S. public debt
burden in a manner consistent with a ‘AAA’ rating and with ‘AAA’ rated
sovereign peers (see Sovereign Government Rating Methodology and Assumptions,”
June 30, 2011, especially Paragraphs 36-41). In our view, the difficulty in
framing a consensus on fiscal policy weakens the government’s ability to
manage public finances and diverts attention from the debate over how to
achieve more balanced and dynamic economic growth in an era of fiscal
stringency and private-sector deleveraging (ibid). A new political consensus
might (or might not) emerge after the 2012 elections, but we believe that by
then, the government debt burden will likely be higher, the needed medium-term
fiscal adjustment potentially greater, and the inflection point on the U.S.
population’s demographics and other age-related spending drivers closer at
hand (see “Global Aging 2011: In The U.S., Going Gray Will Likely Cost Even
More Green, Now,” June 21, 2011).

When you see somebody who wanted gridlock, be sure to tell them thanks. We got what you wanted, complete with the fixin’s…

Peadawg

August 7th, 2011
9:20 am

Only in Jay’s fantasy land is a group that controls 1/2 of 1/3 of the Senate/Presidency is to blame for S&P downgrading the US’s AAA rating. How many unicorns and money-growing trees do you own, Jay?

Brosephus

August 7th, 2011
9:23 am

Pea

Read the report I linked to. All three are blamed, but the policies that the GOP used to foster this debate is part of the reason for the downgrade.

Jimmy62

August 7th, 2011
9:28 am

“further near-term progress containing the growth in public spending, especially on entitlements”

This is the crux of the issue, and the part of the S&P quote you so conveniently ignore. This is the place where one party will not compromise. The Democrats are holding our future hostage with their unwillingness to budge on entitlements. This is the part you continue to ignore and continue to live in fantasy-land about. The Tea Party gave you every chance to make a move and you refused. It was that refusal to control spending in any real and significant way that led to the downgrade. All the talk about the fight over the debt ceiling is because there was every chance to make real cuts and still it was not done. You and Obama ignore that part of S&P’s quote to everyone’s detriment.

TaxPayer, Inc.

August 7th, 2011
9:29 am

In the Senate, a single person can hold up legislation. In the house, the ruling party can easily hold up legislation and the minority party can pull Tom Price stunts if they are only interested in being obstructionists. In short, it does not take that much effort to stall, delay or even block legislation regardless of whether one is in the majority or minority. Compromise is the way forward.

TaxPayer, Inc.

August 7th, 2011
9:31 am

Republicans refuse to compromise on key areas including defense spending cuts and tax revenue increases.

Don't Forget

August 7th, 2011
9:32 am

Oh sweet mama, your daddy’s got those deep elem blues

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qx1LqnIJLj8&NR=1

Don't Forget

August 7th, 2011
9:37 am

Peadawg,
Civics 101 – you need the house, the senate and a presidential signature to pass legislation. If a party controls any one of those they can, and often do, prevent anything from going forward. This is the first time that there was a credible threat to not raise the debt ceiling.

Brosephus

August 7th, 2011
9:37 am

Jimmy

If that was directed at me, then why not display the entire quote instead of chopping it to boost your partisaned stance. In complete: “We lowered our long-term rating on the U.S. because we believe that the prolonged controversy over raising the statutory debt ceiling and the related
fiscal policy debate indicate that further near-term progress containing the
growth in public spending, especially on entitlements, or on reaching an
agreement on raising revenues
is less likely than we previously assumed and
will remain a contentious and fitful process.”

Highlighted is the part you truncated from your post. The issue isn’t as one-sided as much as you try to make it. Every damn body has said that spending has to be cut, so you and other conservatives can quit the lies about Democrats not wanting to cut spending. Sell those lies in Nigeria or somewhere else where they will have value. The GOP needs to understand that revenue HAS to be a part of the solution as well. We’ve gone 30 years of increased spending and decreased revenue. We’re gonna have to do the opposite to get out of this mess. Spending cuts alone will not do it.

Mary Elizabeth

August 7th, 2011
9:39 am

Bruno @ 8:29

You have misunderstoon me, and my intent, on so many levels. You missed the basic “spirit” of my 3:00 a.m. post to you. I felt I was urged by the Holy Spirit to write to you. It was meant as a gift to you, whether I had/have all the answers or not, at least I tried to reach you, in ways that I felt would benefit you. And I did as I felt God wanted me to do. In a larger sense, it was God to whom I responded . I was not responding to you in order to win an argument or a debate with you. I certainly do not think I am equal to Jesus because Jesus was God on Earth. But, he was also a human on Earth, as I am human. I am, like Jesus, only in that I too am human and am charged by God – as he charged all humans – not to judge, for I cannot know deeply into the heart and soul of any other, as God knows. I simply have to follow the light as I see the light. “This little light of mine, I’m going to let it shine” is from the mountain song of my childhood years and it has merit.

I did what I felt God wanted me to do in regard to you, Bruno, last evening around 3 a.m.. And now, Mary Elizabeth will continue to take a “break from Bruno” (as Fred referred around 3 a.m.) in order to follow my own path well. Good luck to you.

Don't Forget

August 7th, 2011
9:43 am

George Washington’s inaugural prayer

“Almighty God; We make our earnest prayer that Thou wilt keep the United States in Thy holy protection; that Thou wilt incline the hearts of the citizens to cultivate a spirit of subordination and obedience to government; and entertain a brotherly affection and love for one another and for their fellow citizens of the United States at large.

And finally that Thou wilt most graciously be pleased to dispose us all to do justice, to love mercy, and to demean ourselves with that charity, humility, and pacific temper of mind which were the characteristics of the Divine Author of our blessed religion, and without a humble imitation of whose example in these things we can never hope to be a happy nation. Grant our supplication, we beseech Thee, through Jesus Christ our Lord. Amen.”

Amen Mr. President, Amen.

berty blyleven

August 7th, 2011
9:47 am

jesus just left chicago, bound for new orleans…

Donovan

August 7th, 2011
9:48 am

Bookman. For what it’s worth and it being an aged rebuttal…you are dead wrong in your observations and your close-mindedness. Your Democrats have had 5 years (going back to 2006) to ruin this country. Your Democrats have been irresponsibly using the nation’s credit card to max it out to today’s level of debt. Your Democrats have resisted all efforts to stop the damn spending and your Democrats have not put in place a balance budget in over 888 days of your remgime. You and your lousy bunch of looters to the system have all banded together and come up with the collective sound-byte of “hostage taking” that seems to insulate your argument for placing blame on others for your fault in this economic mess you all have created. We Republicans and Tea Party members are only trying to show common sense in responsible governance. YOU DON’T TAX PEOPLE IN A RECESSION OR WEAK ECONOMY. However, you people try to hood-wink the stupid electorate again with tricks of “hostage taking”, “tax only the rich and big corporations”, and “Obama (had) a better plan”. You people scare the poor and the seniors to threats against their failing FDR and LBJ entitlements. These programs are no longer viable and need major over haul. You know it, but it is an easy weapon to use against the conservative movement in this country that is trying to save this nation from you irresponsible economic mangagers. And speaking of economic managers, Geitner should be fired or removed immediately for his left wing irresponsibilty. His economic ideas evolved from years of liberal education. Not only is he a poorly appointed official appointed by a poorly inept president, he is a tax cheat running the Treasury Dept. I really don’t understand how somebody like you maintains faith in the obvious mismanagement of this country at the hands of a political party that ruins everything that it runs. You represent the GOVERNMENT. You should well know that when the government runs things like the Post Office, VA, FAA, AMTRAK, Fannie Mae, Freddie Mack, HUD, and on and on it turns it into a mess. Each and everytime that these fumbling entities fall on their faces, more money is SPENT on them to no avail. Why do you people insist on the same damn failed lessions? DO NOT blame the Republicans or the Tea Party members of Congress for your obstinent Harry Reid, Nancy Pelosi, and Chuck Shumer ways. These people are liberal relics with kooky ideas and deceptive methods who try to remain in power any way they can. As any financial advisor in debt counseling would advise…CUT UP THE DAMN CREDIT CARDS AND STOP SPENDING MONEY YOU DON’T HAVE AND STOP BORROWING MONEY. Your blame is childish. Your message is repulsive. Your political association and ideology is anti-American. Standard & Poor’s reasons for down grading is correct and worthy of its position. This recent deal is not worth the paper it is written on. There are no serious cuts to spending. This future “Super Committee” will be comprised of nothing more than left wing Democrat hacks and Republican Rhinos that will continue on the ineffectual polices that are killing us. We are warning this country about you all and we will see how 2012 plays out against you people who are bent in destroying this country.

@@

August 7th, 2011
9:51 am

Sending someone into eternal damnation cannot be construed as a loving act, no matter how you try to spin it.

HE doesn’t. It’s the individual’s choice.

Free Will, the first gift bestowed.

Jefferson

August 7th, 2011
9:51 am

The tep reps babies will now pay more interest because of their infantile mindset.

AmVet

August 7th, 2011
10:04 am

Though we the working people keep getting clobbered, thanks to a dithering, incompetent, self-serving by dual party design and cowardly US Congress, so be it.

Not to worry. The most important thing, by far, is that BIG business – the new American sovereigns – are raking in gargantuan, record high amounts of profits. And aggregating them into fewer and fewer hands.

And their tens of thousands of access-buying agents on Wall Street and K Street will ensure that their pigs at the trough paymasters come first, last and always.

The new American capitalism…

Mick

August 7th, 2011
10:07 am

donovan

here comes the hurdy gurdy man singing songs of blah…blah…blah..yada….yada..yada…

AmVet

August 7th, 2011
10:14 am

Morning, Bookmaniacs.

Predestination allows for no free will. And even though the modern day interpretations keep evolving (HA!), the hard core Christies don’t play that “Put your hand in the hand of the man who stilled the waters” baloney. A tiny part of the evidence that they are just equally and inherently ill-conceived concepts to explain the glaring Swiss cheese nature of the mythology in question.

Just the opinions and observations of a hell-bound and useless JINO heathen who labors under the effects of a mondo man-made, globally cooled summer…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xymE1qEHrl4

Bruno

August 7th, 2011
10:15 am

And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them.” Ephesians 5:8-11

Rev–I appreciate your support in my exposition of the darkness that resides in Dusty, Scout and Mary Elizabeth. ;-)

On a serious note, we can never fully see ourselves as others do. We ascribe motivations to our actions which may or may not be true. E.g. Am I helping this single mother out strictly from the goodness of my heart, or do I have an ulterior motive??

I do agree with ME, Scout, and Dusty that we are influenced by spirits. However, the “bad” spirit is a master of disguise as the Bible clearly states. So, while these three seem to indicate that only the good forces are operating within their worlds as they proselytize strangers on an anonymous blog, I have a different opinion. Am I demanding perfection from them due to their self-identification as Christians?? Heck no, but a little honesty wouldn’t hurt.

Bruno

August 7th, 2011
10:18 am

HE doesn’t. It’s the individual’s choice.

Apparently @@ missed the point about how the Creator of the Universe is the one who sets the rules or at least created the conditions under which we act. The bottom line is that God’s love is NOT unconditional. The Bible is full of conditions.

Mary Elizabeth

August 7th, 2011
10:26 am

Carlosgvv@ 8:49 a.m.

“Jesus did not leave any written material. The only sources of what he said are in the Gospels. The earliest Gospels we have are copies of copies. We do not know who actually wrote the Gospels. Therefore, we do not know what Jesus actually said. We only have copies of copies of what unknown writers said he said. And yet, you quote scripture as though it were a proven fact that it accurately conveys the words of Jesus. I wonder why that is?”

—————————————–

Actually, there are other found “gospels” of Jesus words that are not simply those of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John according to more unorthodox Christian belief.

Yes, the Gospels were written decades after Jesus died, and by men who only were recalling what Jesus said, and then perhaps their copiers. I am not a Biblical scholar by any means but I will quote from “The Macarthur Study Bible” of the New King James version of the Holy Bible for you about what we do know about the authors of the four mainline gospels.

(1) “About Matthew: Matthew, meaning ‘gift of the Lord,’ was the other name of Levi, the tax collector who left everything to follow Christ. Matthew was one of the 12 apostles.” (p.1389)

(2) About Mark: “Mark, for whom this gospel is named, was a close companion of the Apostle Peter and a recurring charcter in the book of Acts, where he is known as “John whose surname was Mark.” (p.1452)

(3) About Luke: “As with the other 3 gospels, the title is derived from the author’s name. According to tradition, Luke was a Gentile. The Apostle Paul seems to confirm this, distinguishing Luke from those who were “of the circumcision. That would make Luke the only Gentile to pen any books of Scripture. He is responsible for a significant portion of the New Testament, having written both this gospel and the book of Acts. . .The Apostle Paul referred to Luke as a physician.” (p. 1505)

(4) About John: “The title of the fourth gospel continues the pattern of the other gospels, being identified originally as ‘According to John.’ Like the others, ‘The Gospel’ was added later. Although the aurthor’s name does not appear in the gospel, early church tradition strongly and consistently identified him as the Apostle John.” (p. 1569)

Carlos, I hope you will read my essay to Schroder’s Cat at 7:10 p.m. last evening. In it, I mentioned that I believe many find God’s spirit, not necessarily through Jesus, such as those who practice Judaism, or Islam, or Native-American Indians who find the spirit of God in nature. I said that it was in going deeply within their own religioous beliefs that their religious enlightment can be found. I am a Chrisitan and, therefore, I need to go deeply into the teachings of Jesus to find what is spiritual enlightenment for me. It matters not how many times the Gospels have been copied or not copied, I believe the spirit of God overrode/overrides the “letter” of precision.

When I first began to write my 7:10 essay, I knew it would be unorthodox, so that I prayed that God would help me not mislead His intent through my own words. I then opened the Bible randomly to see a verse of scripture which I felt might be of guidance to me in writing for others. It was from St. John. You can read where I turned to in St. John in the first paragraphs of my 7:10 post. It is remarkably germane to the theme of what Schroeder’s Cat had asked me to address. I told readers if they must follow any guidance, let it be the words of St. John and not mine.

I feel the Lord led me to that scripture and He wanted it shared. In my own blog, “Mary Elizabeth Sings” I have written a post entitled “Two Stories of Having Been Led by the Holy Spirit,” or something similar to that, in which I mentioned how listening to the Lord’s spirit and responding to it have brought positive results in my life and in the lives of others.

I believe, whoever wrote the words that are now the Gospels, and the words of Jesus, that God’s spirit was leading that result. I believe what we read Jesus as having said is what is important and has positive results in the world today. It is not the “letter or the law” or the “letter of the letter” of the Gospels that will help us find God on Earth, but the spirit behind the words.

AmVet

August 7th, 2011
10:28 am

Mick, I meant to say thanks for that link to the “other” Todd you put up Friday night. I saw BHT&Ms a couple of years ago and though no musical muse for me, they were very entertaining. And that song you linked was evidence of some monstrous (LOL!) talent.

More sweet Fogelberg from that stellar, though not critically acclaimed, Nashville-based, debut LP. (When he was a nobody…)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MY7_DAP9S1k

AmVet

August 7th, 2011
10:35 am

Bro, I am no econ guy at all, but I would proffer this idea to support your well reasoned position.

Let’s simply steal the funds from Iraq and elsewhere to reimburse ourselves for the dual Bush-foisted quagmires. That must be a trillion bucks or more by now. While at the exact same time raise the taxes – primarily on the super-rich – back to where they were before the aforementioned Texas spendaholic had a chance to NOT bail out us average schmoes because we are NOT too big, but just the right size, to fail…

Gator Joe

August 7th, 2011
10:36 am

Jay,
Responsibility for the US credit downgrade by S&P lies solely with the Republicans, especially their wealthy corporate masters (no need to list them). For decades (and presently), the wealthy Right and the corporate Right have engaged in an orgy of offshoring jobs ( thus depressing wages) and unsustainable tax policy (benefiting only them), lax financial regulation which resulted in unemployment, the mortgage and housing collapse and deficits. They engage in this orgy while blaming programs which benefit the poor, children and the elderly (which suffer most from Republican economic policies) for our economic problems (especially unemployment) and the downgrade. Tea Party Extremists in Congress, Wealthy Fat Cats, Big Oil, Big Business (to name a few), welcome to the world and the country you’ve created.

Bruno

August 7th, 2011
10:37 am

I felt I was urged by the Holy Spirit to write to you. It was meant as a gift to you, whether I had/have all the answers or not, at least I tried to reach you, in ways that I felt would benefit you. And I did as I felt God wanted me to do.

ME–Apparently you missed the part where I stated clearly that I don’t give a rat’s behind what you think your motivations are. Attempting to force a “gift” on someone who doesn’t want it and who has clearly refused it several times does not make you a good person, no matter how you rationalize it. My stated motivation in addressing you is to give you a chance to flesh out your views so that I may understand them better. I have attempted to do so several times, but you keep digging yourself into a bigger hole every time I do by refusing to accept personal responsibility for your actions.Your constant referral to divine motivations is wearing thin in my book.

There are plenty of Christians who I admire, but you’re not one of them. If you choose not to address Bruno in the future, that is your choice, but rest assured that I will continue to call you out as long as you continue to post your thoughts in a public forum such as this.

Midori

August 7th, 2011
10:40 am

gee Donovan — ever hear of page breaks or the “enter” key?

DBCOOPER

August 7th, 2011
10:41 am

All DEMS have is “Blame Republicans”? Holy Cow what does it take for them to admit failure? This experiment with wealth redistribution is a total failure and all Bookman can do is blame Republicans! This country is spiraling down the toilet and idealogical thinking is being put ahead of our country? SAD!!!

How long will Bookman and all other idealogs stick with this loser? Losing 750.000 jobs a day since Obama has taken over. We have lost our good name with the S&P and all over the world. And people still defend this guy? He admitted that if he at the 3 year mark things will be better or he will be a one term president. Please , Please for the good of our country ….GET THE HELL OUT!!! and take the loser tax cheat Geithner WITH YOU.!

Don't Forget

August 7th, 2011
10:43 am

Lotta poor man got the Cumberland Blues He can’t win for losin’

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-ZIgHblIac

Mary Elizabeth

August 7th, 2011
10:43 am

Fred @ 3:06 and all readers:

Fred, my “break” from Bruno will continue, after last night’s “calling” to respond to him, but I wish all to know, that when I do not respond to Bruno – or to any others in the future – that I am not coming from a spirit of vindictiveness or coldness in my heart toward any to whom I do not respond, but simply that to further my own journey in a positive way, I must not respond to some. It is that simple.

Enough from Mary Elizabeth for awhile. The thoughts I offer on this blog are not meant simply for those who post on this blog, but for its larger audience, who may never post on this blog.

Best wishes to all. I’m sure that political concerns will have me blogging again soon.

Bruno

August 7th, 2011
10:43 am

ME: That was a short “Bruno Break” lol.

We’ll see, Fred. I’m counting on the fact that she’s reveling in the attention. Women are like that.

independent thinker

August 7th, 2011
10:45 am

The fact that your counterpart at AJC, Mr. Wingfield would publish such a childish and insane editorial as “What are the Liberals Going to give Up to Balance the Budget? says it all why we are in this mess. Can you imagine telling your banker and credit card companies you are not going to pay your bills because you do not like the amounts charged for prior purchases and cost of credit extended to you? The party of No wants liberals to fund all their pet give aways with no skin in the game. Is Michelle Bachmann’s husband going to “sacrifice” his $250,000 farm subsidy and Medicaid
payments to counsel gays on becoming heterosexuals? Are they going to get the military to repay the $300 million spent on two Reagan era ships that never sailed and just got scrapped with a forein company billing us? or are the going to close the hundreds of bases in Germany and Japan so we can end World War II finally? Are they going to close the loopholes so GE pays taxes?
Or are they going let a lobbyist – Mr. Norquist and pompous jackass talk radio personalities dictate policy for them?

DBCOOPER

August 7th, 2011
10:45 am

It’s the Tea Party’s Fault!!!! How dare they try to take our Tit!

Bruno

August 7th, 2011
10:47 am

The thoughts I offer on this blog are not meant simply for those who post on this blog, but for its larger audience, who may never post on this blog.

Such altruism. It has nothing to do with the gratification she receives from seeing her thoughts in print.

Quit lying to yourself, ME. There’s still time to straighten out your thinking before it’s too late. I wouldn’t want your God to judge you too harshly.

RW-(the original)

August 7th, 2011
10:54 am

Off topic…HA, like there’s a topic, but I digress

The Hawks were sold to a pizza joint.

Note to future Hawk players. When you’re in contract negotiations and you hear ownership say we need players that’ll deliver be sure your agent gets that defined.

AmVet

August 7th, 2011
10:55 am

I must confess, that as a decidedly non-Dead Head, (like Doom, I think?) I really never much “got” them.

Yes, with a catalog that large, I’m historically familiar with a smattering of their songs and some of those have been quite alright by me.

But I’m beginning to grok them more with the exposure from B, DF and others…

Also in some ways the comparison with the democratic” role of the band members, but with JG reigning the talented god there, it is very reminiscent of the Utopia thing,. All the band members had strong input, but the front man was clearly miles ahead of most mortals. One of several similarities between the two “cults”…

Don't Forget

August 7th, 2011
10:55 am

DB
If the goal of dems is “wealth redistribution” they certainly aren’t doing a very effective job of it. All of the economic data show wealth being increasingly concentrated in the upper levels of society and a shrinking middle class. If our current system doesn’t allow economic advancement, to varying degrees, of all levels of working society, the system is broken and the notion of “trickle down” is exposed as myth. Americans do not envy wealth, they aspire to it. This is becoming increasingly unattainable to broad swaths of the the American public.

getalife

August 7th, 2011
10:57 am

You mean the tit of SS that the tea party suk on.

Or Medicare for health care.

Ask a tea party con how our economy works for laughs.

poison pen

August 7th, 2011
10:58 am

” Enough from Mary Elizabeth for awhile”

She talks to herself in the third person. What Cosmos does she live in.

getalife

August 7th, 2011
11:00 am

pp,

Lets not be rude to a well mannered poster.

She can post all she wants.

This blog believes in freedom.

midtownguy

August 7th, 2011
11:02 am

The only way out is to cap spending and raise revenue. And it has to come from both sides. If we are going to limit HUD spending on housing for the poor, then we need to cap the mortgage deduction. If we are going to cut back on food stamps, then we need to cut back on farm subsidies. If we are going to cut back on some medicaid services, they we need to close a few foreign military bases. But I don’t see that happening, thus we are in for a long, hard ride.

getalife

August 7th, 2011
11:02 am

What is la Pizza loca?

Mexican pizza ?

poison pen

August 7th, 2011
11:02 am

” independent thinker ”

For someone who is an independent thinker you seem to be really one sided.

DBCOOPER

August 7th, 2011
11:05 am

Don’t Forget

Rich will always be rich. They didn’t get that way by being dumb. The government is not going to take it away from them. Even cosieing up to them (see GE) is not going to help.

If we all of a sudden all had the same amount of money. Within about 10 years the same rich people would be rich again and the same poor people would be poor again. The government can’t change that as much as this administration would like too. Socialism is an idea that simply doesn’t work and has never worked. Our economy is rejecting those polocies right now.

I suggest hard work or innovation. Not counting on the government to take “the man’s” money and give it to me.

Jm

August 7th, 2011
11:05 am

Is it 2012 yet?

Jm

August 7th, 2011
11:07 am

We need the BBA….

poison pen

August 7th, 2011
11:09 am

getalife

pp,

” Lets not be rude to a well mannered poster.

She can post all she wants.

This blog believes in freedom”

getalife, nowhere did I say she can’t post here, I just want to know what cosmos she lives in.

Please go back and read her post and you will see that I put her words in parenthesis. Those were her words, not mine.

Larper

August 7th, 2011
11:09 am

Jay, you prove the slogan true, “stay off drugs.” In reality, everyone knows (thanks to the S&P telling us point blank) that we lost the AAA rating thanks to NOT DOING ENOUGH to lower the debt level. Increasing the ceiling by 4 trillion and not cutting near enough in spending were their main causes of concern, so says the S&P themselves.

You can continue to lie and try to sell crazy as you usually do until you are blue in the face, but the facts will always speak louder than your tired propaganda.

Another reason the worst President in US history with thankfully be a one termer.

Don't Forget

August 7th, 2011
11:10 am

AmVet

August 7th, 2011
10:55 am

But I’m beginning to grok them more with the exposure from B, DF and others…

LOL, that’s how it starts. Most of us didn’t “find” the Dead but were introduced to them.

AmVet

August 7th, 2011
11:20 am

DB, your point at 11:05 is valid.

But the thing is, that is NOT the point. The game is horrifically rigged.

And THE point is economic justice. Remember that word, justice?

It is a sham. Banksters, casino capitalists and assorted white collar criminals are completely untouchable now. Thanks to the Soft-on-Crime GOP and their lapdogs “across the aisle”.

These multi-nationals and “monied interests” rely on a business model that has almost no patriotism to this nation. They have become our masters when they used to be our chartered servants, kept in check by the sovereign interests of we the people.

And that giant American flag they hide behind at 12 Wall Street? It is an insult of the highest order.

Of course, the super-rich have always called the shots and I have few problems with that. But the “sustained orgy of greed and reckless behavior” that culminated in the attempted corporate destruction of capitalism, in September 2008, has been irrefutable proof of a poisoned system that no longer works effectively to the advantage for most of us little fish.

These titans of commerce used to operate from a place of self-enlightened restraint. And devoted their enterprises to operating completely ethically and legally. Now? Hmmm? The facts aren’t very encouraging.

When the working class is so marginalized that there are only two groups left in this country – the haves and the have nots, will you be happy then. Though you will not be in that former group?

Real Scooter

August 7th, 2011
11:21 am

You mean the tit of SS that the tea party suk on

OK getalife,you have stepped on my toes with this remark dude!
I’m not a Tea Party person but I will be drawing MY SS very soon.
I worked very hard at a blue collar job most of my life and paid in the money that I will be drawing.
Also,I know I wont live long enough to draw all the money I put into it.
THAT is not suking off the Gov. teet!!!!

getalife

August 7th, 2011
11:27 am

Scooter,

Exactly.

The tea party say SS an Medicare is welfare but it is not.

It is lie and they know it.

The dems fight for it and the gop want to end it.

Why in the world would you vote for a party fighting to end it?

I don’t get it.

Please explain this insanity to me.

Disgusted

August 7th, 2011
11:28 am

I worked very hard at a blue collar job most of my life and paid in the money that I will be drawing.
Also,I know I wont live long enough to draw all the money I put into it.
THAT is not suking off the Gov. teet!!!!

Get with the program, Scooter. Don’t you know that SS is just another entitlement program we need to get rid of? It must be true. All the conservatives on here say so.

poison pen

August 7th, 2011
11:34 am

Disgusted

Get with the program, Scooter. Don’t you know that SS is just another entitlement program we need to get rid of? It must be true. All the conservatives on here say so.

Disgusted, Please show us ” ALL ” the references that you claim to be fact, please, pretty please.

Don't Forget

August 7th, 2011
11:35 am

It’s amazing to me how many people come on here insulting others and then just can’t understand why that person can’t see just how stupid they are. lol. This is why civility is important. It’s not about manners it’s about having productive debate. Once the insults start, you’ve lost your audience and they will not hear a thing you say.

getalife

August 7th, 2011
11:37 am

pp.

Your party voted to end Medicare and tried to end SS but was stopped by the dems.

Facts.

Lets stay with the facts pp.

getalife

August 7th, 2011
11:41 am

Don’t forget,

cons think they know everything and use insults to convey that lie.

President Clinton does not understand how the banks make 63% of our gdp and when I tried to figure it out, it gave a a bachmann migraine.

Brosephus

August 7th, 2011
11:42 am

AmV

I could go along with your idea… Here’s an opinion piece from CNN that you’d probably like to read as well.

http://www.cnn.com/2011/OPINION/08/06/greene.money.mood/index.html?hpt=hp_c1

DF @10:55

Wealth is being redistributed, but it’s being redistributed upwards and not down.

Don't Forget

August 7th, 2011
11:44 am

DBCOOPER

August 7th, 2011
11:05 am

Rich will always be rich. They didn’t get that way by being dumb.

DB, I agree and I don’t have a problem with that. My problem is that I don’t think the middle class is being compensated for their contribution to the creation of wealth. Entrepreneurs and investors will always get the lion’s share and that is how it should be because they are the ones taking the risk. But they need to recognize and reward those who have contributed to their success.

Don't Forget

August 7th, 2011
11:50 am

getalife

August 7th, 2011
11:41 am

cons think they know everything and use insults to convey that lie.

Getalife, aren’t you doing the same thing? Looks to me like a blanket statement followed by an insult. Just thought I’d put that thought out there.

getalife

August 7th, 2011
11:50 am

I do understand why the “banks own the place” . The place is corrupt congress.

They control the majority of our gdp and our country depends on that money to run government.

Also, they are the highest donors to corrupt pols including the President.

Try reading the financial reform bill and see if you do not get a bachmann migraine.

So when our cons think they know everything and spew insults, ask them how our economy works.

They will shut up.

getalife

August 7th, 2011
11:51 am

Don’t forget,

Guilty.

getalife

August 7th, 2011
11:56 am

I will make a deal Don’t forget (Don’t forget what? But I digress)

When our cons treat everybody with respect and stop the insults, I will follow their lead.

Deal?

Don't Forget

August 7th, 2011
11:57 am

Getalife, I’m guilty sometimes too. I have to make an effort to show my “better side”.

Paulo977

August 7th, 2011
11:57 am

Josef
@ 7/6..5:56pm

Yeah all in the journey …never promised us all a rose garden!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZh3eMSQH1Q&feature=related

Real Scooter

August 7th, 2011
12:02 pm

getalife

August 7th, 2011
11:27 am

I didn’t vote for that Party dude!
I thought you were saying getting SS was sukin off the teet.
I guess I misunderstood what you were saying. :???:

getalife

August 7th, 2011
12:07 pm

Scooter,

No, I fight to keep SS and Medicare .

Great programs for our Seniors and I use them too because I paid for them.

Don’t forget,

My “better side” will come back when our country is out of trouble and the gop stop stealing jobs and programs.

Don't Forget

August 7th, 2011
12:10 pm

Getalife,
My moniker was a lead in to my first point, which was a historical point I have long since forgotten. (ironic eh?)

You’ll be waiting a long time for that to happen though, especially since some of that comes as a response to something that someone else said, and not always on this blog. You could try taking the lead yourself and see how it works for ya. Having said that, sometimes people are justifiably angry and it’s ok and actually necessary to get their point across. But the ones who are ALWAYS angry have a problem.

AmVet

August 7th, 2011
12:11 pm

Paulo, bravo on that great cover of that fine song.

Funny, ‘cuz back in the days of Loretta, I didn’t dig it, or virtually any “C&W” stuff very much. I found it schmaltzy, at a time when I was busy developing my rock/folk/soul acumen.

I must be getting old. (LOL at me.)

From that incredible sophomore effort, on which Joe Walsh, Glenn Frey, Don Henley, Randy Meisner and Graham Nash, among other studs, contributed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYLPXyuMme0&feature=related

Don't Forget

August 7th, 2011
12:11 pm</