Two brave emissaries from a strange and terrible place
Dudley Clendinen is a former editor at the AJC, among other places, although I do not know him personally. His time here in Atlanta did not coincide with mine.
Last year, Clendinen was diagnosed with amyotrophic lateral sclerosis, better known as Lou Gehrig’s disease. In an essay in last weekend’s New York Times, he writes about how heartened he has been by the way his friends and relatives have rallied around him.
” … one, from Texas, put a hand on my thinning shoulder and appeared to study the ground where we were standing. He had flown in to see me.
“We need to go buy you a pistol, don’t we?” he asked quietly. He meant to shoot myself with.
“Yes, Sweet Thing,” I said, with a smile. “We do.”
I loved him for that.
As Clendinen notes, ALS — or “Lou,” as he calls it — is “not a kind disease.”
“The nerves and muscles pulse and twitch, and progressively, they die. From the outside, it looks like the ripple of piano keys in the muscles under my skin. From the inside, it feels like anxious butterflies, trying to get out. It starts in the hands and feet and works its way up and in, or it begins in the muscles of the mouth and throat and chest and abdomen, and works its way down and out. The second way is called bulbar, and that’s the way it is with me. We don’t live as long, because it affects our ability to breathe early on, and it just gets worse. “
Having thought about it long and hard, and having witnessed the long, drawn-out death of his mother, Clendinen has made a decision.
“If I choose to have the tracheotomy that I will need in the next several months to avoid choking and perhaps dying of aspiration pneumonia, the respirator and the staff and support system necessary to maintain me will easily cost half a million dollars a year. Whose half a million, I don’t know.
I’d rather die.”
No, Clendinen writes, he won’t do it by firearm. But he will do it, and has apparently made arrangements so that he’s ready when he decides the time has come.
Reading Clendinen’s essay, I couldn’t help but notice the contrast with the approach taken by another journalist, a man I did know. Brian Dickinson, the editorial page editor and columnist of the Providence (R.I.) Journal, was a man of charisma and talent. Like Clendinen, he was diagnosed with ALS.
Brian, however, chose to play it out all the way to the end. He lived for a decade after his initial diagnosis, a decade of decline and stubborn refusal. “Except for the fact that I can still manage a smile and still have full control of my eye muscles, I could almost be taken for some outlandish display in Madame Tussaud’s wax museum,” he wrote in 1998, six years into his sentence. In those last years, technology allowed Dickinson to communicate and even write regular columns through the blinking of his eyes.
“Combat against ALS is its own reward,” he wrote. “The disease now defines the terms of my existence. If I were to cave in too easily, I would be violating the terms of an implicit contract that I had with someone.”
I would not judge either man. The course each chose requires its own sort of bravery, and the decision they faced is perhaps the most personal, intimate decision that human intelligence allows or condemns us to make.
Like emissaries from a land we hope we never visit, Dickinson and Clendinen have each tried to tell us how it feels and what it means to face such a situation, but perhaps the most important lesson they teach is that human beings will respond to the same predicament very differently, and should be allowed the freedom to do so.
– Jay Bookman
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341 comments Add your comment
Stonethrower
July 21st, 2011
8:39 am
Just take me out back and shoot me. It will save my family long term grief and money.
Mick
July 21st, 2011
8:44 am
Jay – nice diversion from our superficial political problems. Your health is your wealth, everyday is a holiday and every meal a banquet, if only more people would stop to smell the roses. My apologies for all the cliches…
Left wing management
July 21st, 2011
8:44 am
It’s all the Lilliputians fault
carlosgvv
July 21st, 2011
8:47 am
You would be amazed at how many “good Christians” woudl stand over these men and deny them the right to decide to end their suffering. They would not hesitate to impose their beliefs on them in the name of their “God of love”. Tea Party people in Congress have this kind of mentality, which explains this strange, crazy mess we now have in Washington.
Bosch
July 21st, 2011
8:47 am
but perhaps the most important lesson they teach is that human beings will respond to the same predicament very differently, and should be allowed the freedom to do so
Amen.
Nice column Jay. Very touching. I had a friend who died of ALS three years ago.
Capt. Orange - "Will Tan For Food (Or Bribes)"
July 21st, 2011
8:50 am
Jay did a column like this a few weeks ago — basically what would you decide to do, (a) bankrupt your family for your care or (b) decline and try to die with dignity. Hard choices.
Since most states frown upon assisted suicides, either way you look at it it’s a death sentence, one is long and slow, the other is short and quick, done at your own time, place, and discretion. While you can, everyone should make out their Living Wills.
jconservative
July 21st, 2011
8:53 am
Nice column Jay.
Freedom.
There is always some busybody who knows better. There is always some busybody with an agenda. There is always some busybody with an ideology.
Freedom is precious.
jt
July 21st, 2011
8:56 am
carlosgvv
.
It isn’t “good christians” denying them.
It is your beloved Federal overlords that makes it a crime to off yourself…………….bozo.
ByteMe
July 21st, 2011
8:57 am
Is this destined for the dead tree edition? It should.
Capt. Orange - "Will Tan For Food (Or Bribes)"
July 21st, 2011
8:57 am
You would be amazed at how many “good Christians” woudl stand over these men and deny them the right to decide to end their suffering. They would not hesitate to impose their beliefs on them
Blame the family, regardless of their beliefs; it’s hard to let a loved one go — it’s selfish and self serving, but it’s still hard. People believe that if there’s still life, then there’s still hope — no matter the quality of that life. I remember Terri Schiavo and how her family REFUSED to allow her to die and how they held on to a (wrong) belief that Terri was getting better and that she was cognizant and trying to communicate with them. In the end, they let her suffer needlessly for years, not for her sake, but for their own.
Peadawg
July 21st, 2011
8:57 am
Seems like a panel of “experts” appointed by Congress and the President, aka death panels, would be necessary in Brian’s case, eh Jay?
USinUK
July 21st, 2011
8:59 am
I second Bosch’s Amen and give you a Testify, as well.
having watched my mom lose her battle to lung cancer, I stand firmly in the “death with dignity” camp.
@@
July 21st, 2011
8:59 am
Living wills are the way to go. That can be read both ways.
USinUK
July 21st, 2011
9:00 am
Peadawg – I love how you totally ignore that hospitals and insurance companies already use “death panels”
Adam
July 21st, 2011
9:00 am
If you can’t have abortions, can’t kill yourself, and can’t have someone else HELP you kill yourself then because of illness then this is all leading to one place:
We need to provide health care and emotional/mental health care to everyone, and fund it properly. It’s the only way to ensure many reasons for abortions get reduced or eliminated, and that people don’t WANT to or feel the NEED to kill themselves.
USinUK
July 21st, 2011
9:01 am
jt – dearheart, laws like assisted suicide are the STATE level … not the federal.
nice try, though.
stands for decibels
July 21st, 2011
9:01 am
PD @ 8.57, and others, might be interested to know that such panels have been legislated into existence already.
like here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advance_Directives_Act
Adam
July 21st, 2011
9:01 am
Stonethrower: Just take me out back and shoot me. It will save my family long term grief and money.
And it also provides them with someone to sue so they can get even more money.
Normal
July 21st, 2011
9:02 am
I salute both men and there opposed point of views. As Capt. Orange said, it is indeed a hard choice. My choice would be to pass like Dudley. I think there is more dignity in that than trying to fight on. With ALS there are no miricles. Anyway, as I see it, death is just another adventure.
Peadawg
July 21st, 2011
9:02 am
” I love how you totally ignore that hospitals and insurance companies already use “death panels”” – No I don’t ignore it at all. But I trust them a lot more than a panel of “experts” appointed by Congress any day.
stands for decibels
July 21st, 2011
9:03 am
My apologies for all the cliches
well, for what it’s worth Mick, you already said pretty much all I was gonna say, myself, in direct response to Jay’s very thoughtful piece.
Bosch
July 21st, 2011
9:04 am
“It is your beloved Federal overlords that makes it a crime to off yourself”
Like Jeb Bush?
Adam
July 21st, 2011
9:05 am
Peadawg: So you think that people who work for a private company and profit from not giving out benefits are more trustworthy than those who are appointed by elected officials?
Normal
July 21st, 2011
9:05 am
USinUK,
Go easy on PeaDawg. He’s just a product of his enviroment.
carlosgvv
July 21st, 2011
9:05 am
jt
As USinUK pointed out, it is the “good Christians” at the State level who are denying them……dimwit
Bosch
July 21st, 2011
9:07 am
“But I trust them a lot more than a panel of “experts” appointed by Congress any day.”
Peadawg,
These “death panels” appointed by Congress are as imaginary as skittle pooping unicorns and you are smart enough to know it, but don’t let a good rant get in your way this morning.
Peadawg
July 21st, 2011
9:08 am
“These “death panels” appointed by Congress are as imaginary” – I realize that and I would like to keep it that way. Jay’s the one who advocated for it a couple of weeks/months ago in one of his columns.
kayaker 71
July 21st, 2011
9:09 am
Nice column, Bookman. You should write more of these.
Peadawg
July 21st, 2011
9:09 am
I was just mocking Jay with my initial comment, that’s all, Bosch.
Bosch
July 21st, 2011
9:10 am
“I realize that and I would like to keep it that way.”
Then why the hell Peadawg did you mention them as a reality?
TaxPayer
July 21st, 2011
9:11 am
What prompted the human interest story this fine morning.
ty webb
July 21st, 2011
9:11 am
touching stories…I only hope both men find peace in whatever is left of their days here.
poison pen
July 21st, 2011
9:11 am
Carlos, I think it’s the evil boogyman who is after us. Watch out…
Peadawg
July 21st, 2011
9:11 am
“Then why the hell Peadawg did you mention them as a reality?” – I never said they were real, Bosch. Refer to my 9:09.
TaxPayer
July 21st, 2011
9:12 am
A tribute to Peadawg.
poison pen
July 21st, 2011
9:13 am
kayaker 71
” Nice column, Bookman. You should write more of these.”
Nah, let’s leave these for Ann Landers.
Bosch
July 21st, 2011
9:13 am
No, Peadawg, I’ll refer to your 9:02
“But I trust them a lot more than a panel of “experts” appointed by Congress any day”
USinUK
July 21st, 2011
9:13 am
“But I trust them a lot more than a panel of “experts” appointed by Congress any day.”
yes. you go right ahead and trust Corporate Insurance to make the right decision on YOUR care … I’m sure they’ll have your best interests in mind …
Brosephus
July 21st, 2011
9:14 am
USinner
According to jt, the Haiti and Chilean earthquakes were probably because of some federalie here in the US. We’re the cause of every problem in existence, and only Ron Paul, another cog in the fed wheel, will be the one who saves the day.
Personally, I don’t know how I would approach a situation like that. I wouldn’t want to be a financial drag on my family, but I don’t think I would give up without some fighting.
Marty Murray
July 21st, 2011
9:14 am
I more agree with Brian than with Dudley.
Truth be told, als is totally solvable using methods available today and if Brian could have held on a little longer he very well could have found that out.
Dudley, on the other hand, has been informed of that and has chosen to ignore that fact. That is something that one might take into account when considering Dudley’s path.
The bottom line is that if someone wants to stay or go, I guess that is basically up to the person. On the other hand, let’s be clear that what is going on is not up to als, because als is completely solvable and to think otherwise is to fool oneself.
Peadawg
July 21st, 2011
9:15 am
““But I trust them a lot more than a panel of “experts” appointed by Congress any day”” – You can refer to that all you want if it makes you happy. I never said they were real. Keep diggin’ though.
Bosch
July 21st, 2011
9:15 am
Brosephus,
“but I don’t think I would give up without some fighting”
I don’t think anyone would expect any different — this kind of situation is for the “we’ve done all we can” phase of a terminal illness.
Capt. Orange - "Will Tan For Food (Or Bribes)"
July 21st, 2011
9:16 am
Peadawg – I love how you totally ignore that hospitals and insurance companies already use “death panels”
She’s correct PDawg – they’re called “HMO’s”. If you cost too much to cure, they WILL find a clause in your coverage to off you.
Peadawg
July 21st, 2011
9:16 am
I’ll pull out the popcorn from yesterday, Bosch, while you keep trying.
USinUK
July 21st, 2011
9:16 am
Peadawg … dude. decaf.
you seem extra tense and sensitive today
kayaker 71
July 21st, 2011
9:16 am
poison pen,
Easy to say until it happens to you. As Bookman says, it would take a lot of strength to decide either way and either way is a struggle.
Bosch
July 21st, 2011
9:16 am
“I never said they were real. Keep diggin’ though”
And you can keep back peddling all you want.
poison pen
July 21st, 2011
9:18 am
USinUK, I can’t speak for you or anyone else, that being said, Aetna & Blue Cross have always come through for my wife & myself.
I have absolutely no complaints when it comes to my health care.
I guess the one in GB must not be so good.
Peadawg
July 21st, 2011
9:18 am
“you seem extra tense and sensitive today” – Nah I’m just having fun with y’all. I was mocking Jay originally and everyone jumps on it. Love it!!!
Stonethrower
July 21st, 2011
9:18 am
Adam
File a lawsuit for what?
USinUK
July 21st, 2011
9:18 am
Brocephus – I know … there’s a fine line – stay as long as you want, fight as hard as you can, but then find the time and place to go peacefully into that good night.
(and actually, taking a cue from downstairs, haiti wasn’t our fault – it was George Soros who dun it)
Brosephus
July 21st, 2011
9:18 am
Bosch
I understand. That’s the point where I refuse to become a financial drain on my family. I wouldn’t worry about it though, I know something would happen to take care of everything.
Peadawg
July 21st, 2011
9:19 am
“And you can keep back peddling all you want.” – I’ll be sitting right here in the same spot munching on my popcorn. Nom nom.
Capt. Orange - "Will Tan For Food (Or Bribes)"
July 21st, 2011
9:20 am
Nah, let’s leave these for Ann Landers.
Brrrrrrrr…….anyone else feel that cold chilling wind that just blew through here?
poison pen
July 21st, 2011
9:20 am
Kayacker 71
What is easy to say???????????
Brosephus
July 21st, 2011
9:20 am
USinner
Didn’t you know that the federal government is actually a shadow government funded by Soros???
USinUK
July 21st, 2011
9:21 am
poison – they’ve taken FAB care of my MIL here (rheumetoid arthritis and all the accompanying problems)
as far as corporate HC in the states goes, I’ve read hundreds of stories about people being denied coverage / denied drugs / denied treatment – they’ve testified before Congress – so, it happens and it happens in increasing numbers
poison pen
July 21st, 2011
9:21 am
Capt. It’s just Global Warming you feel.
Thomas
July 21st, 2011
9:22 am
Such an interesting topic. Amongst my multitude of personal failures was not following through with a promise to myself after surving a “non” survivable cancer a decade ago. The first is dignity in dying. We (society and patients) and docs spend so much emotional time and energy on this topic. The second is marijuana for medicinal purposes. As a a society we are so fixated on often inferior, as to effect, and much more addictive opiates such as morphine and its derivatives like percocet simply because they are prescribed and approved by the FDA.
God bless those suffering from tragic diseases such as ALS, MS, cancers, etc.
USinUK
July 21st, 2011
9:22 am
Brocephus – we forgot to include the “mwaaaahahahaha” evil laugh that you have to include whenever we mention He Who Controls Us All
Capt. Orange - "Will Tan For Food (Or Bribes)"
July 21st, 2011
9:22 am
(and actually, taking a cue from downstairs, haiti wasn’t our fault – it was George Soros who dun it)
Sorros and that evil Marxist Kenyan Manchurian Candidate Obama — don’t forget his machiavellian taint to the story. PS: Murdoch wasn’t even there when it happened, and if he was, he totally blames the people he put in charge.
poison pen
July 21st, 2011
9:23 am
USinUK,
Funny, I have never seen hundreds of stories about people being denied healthcare, care to list them?
Brosephus
July 21st, 2011
9:24 am
Oops…
ops;
USinUK
July 21st, 2011
9:25 am
poison – then, you’re not paying attention.
Brosephus
July 21st, 2011
9:25 am
Merleliz
July 21st, 2011
9:26 am
When my beloved old dog was terminally ill, I took him to the vet for a peaceful ending to his wonderful life. It was painful to me, I suffered agonies of indecision, and grief beyond measure…but once his “quality of life” was gone, I fulfilled the final responsibility of pet ownership and I did not let him suffer.
How sad that no one will be able to do that for me.
I’ll take the gun…life is only worthwhile if you are capable of enjoying it.
Paul
July 21st, 2011
9:26 am
Solemn and thought-provoking, Jay.
I almost think some topics should be posted and closed to comments. Guess I’d have been better off reading the topic, then waiting to skim the comments.
USinUK
July 21st, 2011
9:27 am
http://bit.ly/oQGrkR
there’s a nice place to start browsing
USinUK
July 21st, 2011
9:28 am
Hi Paul –
meh. as always, some comments are better than others.
lynnie gal
July 21st, 2011
9:29 am
Of course this is a personal decision and society should honor the sanctity of whatever rational decision a person would make in facing a situation such as this. How can laws and society make that determination for anyone? If someone decides that the suffering isn’t worth their time left on this earth, if trying to live with such an illness will financially and emotionally shatter their loved ones, who are we to say that “rational suicide” is illegal or immoral?
TaxPayer
July 21st, 2011
9:29 am
I almost think some topics should be posted and closed to comments. Guess I’d have been better off reading the topic, then waiting to skim the comments.
I’ll second that emotion.
kayaker 71
July 21st, 2011
9:29 am
Helping to treat Hospice patients for many years gives you a window into a world that few of us healthy people see. So many conflicts, so much courage, decisions to be made by everyone involved….. all at a time when conflicts and decisions should be left for a better time. When the denial is finally swept away and reality sets in, things get better. “Dying is just a part of living, Forrest”. But sometimes that’s pretty hard to accept.
DwayneL
July 21st, 2011
9:30 am
A person should be able to take their own life if they’re ill.
Capt. Orange - "Will Tan For Food (Or Bribes)"
July 21st, 2011
9:30 am
thomas: The second is marijuana for medicinal purposes. As a a society we are so fixated on often inferior, as to effect, and much more addictive opiates such as morphine and its derivatives like percocet simply because they are prescribed and approved by the FDA.
Ahhh thomas, don’t put the total blame on the FDA — put it on the Drug Company Lobbyists, they along with the Gun lobby are the most powerful things in Washington. Something cheap, natural, and non-addictive as marijuana doesn’t stand a snow balls chance in hell against a Pfizer or a Merck Drug lobbyist. They pay off “some” people within the FDA to patent their expensive, ineffective drugs, (that have to recalled 5 years later — but hey in the interim they’ve made BILLIONS off of it), delude the public into thinking they actually need this drug to survive, the saturate the market and the world with their psuedo-cures; then they laugh at us, all the way to the bank………….
Brosephus
July 21st, 2011
9:30 am
Paul
What better way to expose ignorance in the full light that it deserves. Closing off comments allows that ignorance to continue to fester below the surface.
This is a touchy subject, but one that I think grownups can discuss without devolving into feces-slinging monkeys at the zoo.
USinUK
July 21st, 2011
9:32 am
kayaker – well said.
USinUK
July 21st, 2011
9:33 am
Brocephus – “This is a touchy subject, but one that I think grownups can discuss without devolving into feces-slinging monkeys at the zoo.”
grown-ups being the operative term.
Paul
July 21st, 2011
9:35 am
Brocephus
Yeah, I know.
But I’ve had enough of the ignorance for now.
Later -
FrankLeeDarling
July 21st, 2011
9:38 am
I helped assist a friend with ALS a few years ago,It was the worst thing to watch the deterioration from one of my good friends, to someone who it took hours to communicate simple things like “move my leg”.I don’t know what kind of choice he would have made but a dignified option needs to be there.
Capt. Orange - "Will Tan For Food (Or Bribes)"
July 21st, 2011
9:45 am
This is a touchy subject, but one that I think grownups can discuss without devolving into feces-slinging monkeys at the zoo
First time here huh? Good luck with that sentiment though.
stands for decibels
July 21st, 2011
9:45 am
When the denial is finally swept away and reality sets in, things get better. “Dying is just a part of living, Forrest”. But sometimes that’s pretty hard to accept.
Yes. Indeed.
Brosephus
July 21st, 2011
9:50 am
First time here huh? Good luck with that sentiment though.
Not by a long shot. However, I didn’t get to where I am in life by lowering my standards to those around me.
Patrick
July 21st, 2011
9:56 am
Very human, respectful, thought-provoking article, Jay. Thank you.
I’ve often said that I do not fear dying, but the thought of lingering alive while totally incapacitated scares the hell out of me.
delta burke
July 21st, 2011
9:57 am
I’d take a death panel over being treated like schiavo-another sad moment in right-wing christian history.
DawgDad
July 21st, 2011
9:57 am
The question IS political, very much so. The problem is if people are allowed to choose suicide then it puts them at much greater risk of people or the government coercing them into doing so. Assisted suicide is murder, morally at least. And, we are about a half-step away from the Fed encouraging people to do themselves in when they reach a certain age or medical condition. This is a very slippery slope, and with legal abortion as a society we’re about 3/4 down the tubes already.
Recon (2nd.and 3rd.)
July 21st, 2011
10:01 am
“but perhaps the most important lesson they teach is that human beings will respond to the same predicament very differently, and should be allowed the freedom to do so.”
Amen to that.
Capt. Orange - "Will Tan For Food (Or Bribes)"
July 21st, 2011
10:02 am
Sorry Bro – I was just being sarcastic – in general – not towards you specifically.
DawgDad
July 21st, 2011
10:03 am
Please explain how Schiavo is “another sad moment in right-wing [Christian with a capital C] history”. I’m a “right-wing Christian” and the handling of her case was terribly botched. More to do with legal entanglements than Christian theocracy.
delta burke
July 21st, 2011
10:05 am
why would christians insist on someone in a vegetative state, schiavo, be kept alive by machines when the pearly gates are one pull of the plug away. christians fear death because deep down they know God is a fallacy.
jt
July 21st, 2011
10:05 am
Enter your comments here
carlosgvv
July 21st, 2011
9:05 am
.
I stand corrected and I apologize for my snarkyness.
The problem lays with your State overlords…….as well it should. The Feds ARE constantly trying to nose their way into this most private business.
I suspect that if you or the Jay Bookmans of the world had their way, the federal overlords WOULD take the matter over………and probably………….subsidize it.
USinUK
July 21st, 2011
10:06 am
delta – 9:57 – gah … sad moment???
try shameful.
larry
July 21st, 2011
10:07 am
What this article means , to me , anyway, is that everyone needs to have a living will outlining what to do in case of terminal illness or of an emergency ( like a car wreck).
Like mine states that three doctors have to tell my wife or my daughter that there is no hope for me, which , in that case, let me go into that shining light . But if one or more says i have a fighting chance, keep me alive and kicking.
USinUK
July 21st, 2011
10:07 am
dawg – “More to do with legal entanglements than Christian theocracy.”
couldn’t disagree with you more on that one – once the politicians (ahem BOTH Bush brothers) got involved, it became a Right Wing Christian Nuttfest
clem
July 21st, 2011
10:08 am
jt you dumb arse, the fed overlords are controlled by chrisian principles for the most part
Capt. Orange - "Will Tan For Food (Or Bribes)"
July 21st, 2011
10:08 am
The question IS political, very much so. The problem is if people are allowed to choose suicide then it puts them at much greater risk of people or the government coercing them into doing so.
How can a terminally ill person, with no chance for recovery and/or a return to the quality of life that they are used to, be at a risk for coercion from the government? To me, they are more likely to be coerced by their family (into staying or going), than by the government.
Assisted suicide is murder, morally at least.
Why is it o.k. to put a dog or a horse out of its misery, but morally wrong to do so with a human being?
And, we are about a half-step away from the Fed encouraging people to do themselves in when they reach a certain age or medical condition.
I don’t understand that comment. Please elaborate.
This is a very slippery slope, and with legal abortion as a society we’re about 3/4 down the tubes already.
Again, please elaborate. Thanks.
Brosephus
July 21st, 2011
10:08 am
The question IS political, very much so. The problem is if people are allowed to choose suicide then it puts them at much greater risk of people or the government coercing them into doing so.
The question only becomes political when you allow politics to engulf and rule your life. People are already allowed such choices now. You can ingest alcohol until you end up with a liver harder than concrete, but the government has not once coerced people to drink?
Suicide is a moral issue but not a political one. If somebody has stage 4 cancer and decides they don’t want treatment, are you suggesting that they be forced to undergo treatment that they refuse to have? I agree with the idea that people should die with dignity. I, for one, do not want to be hooked up to machines for an indefinite period of time. When it’s my time to leave this body behind, I want to be able to go when it’s time.
USinUK
July 21st, 2011
10:09 am
“The Feds ARE constantly trying to nose their way into this most private business.
I suspect that if you or the Jay Bookmans of the world had their way, the federal overlords WOULD take the matter over………and probably………….subsidize it.”
Flights of Fancy … now leaving from Gate 13 …
All aboard Flights of Fancy … Destination … Delusionland.
Larry
July 21st, 2011
10:10 am
Good column Jay, thanks for not trying to tell us what we should do and who is right and who is wrong. Perhaps you can bring the same objectivity to the political pieces and there wouldn’t be so much animosity between your readers.
AmVet
July 21st, 2011
10:11 am
Having stood at the precipice and looked into the abyss, I can say unequivocally that everyday is for me a celebration. And the stories of these two men inspires me to keep on living with that attitude of gratitude.
Which of those two choices I would make, given their situations, I have no idea. But I do feel that when that time came, I would go with a great deal of peace in my heart no matter which road I take.
And great post, 71.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tw0P4lAaUfc
kayaker 71
July 21st, 2011
10:11 am
Schiavo was the biggest Christian clusterf*** of the century. It is absolutely none of the government’s or the Church’s business how family members make decisions for their own.
DawgDad
July 21st, 2011
10:12 am
delta: Christians (with a capital C) commit all kinds of sins, just like non-Christians. You appear to be in no position to speak to what Christians believe, and I can assure you they are not all of one mind. At least one will say a prayer for you today.
waterstim
July 21st, 2011
10:12 am
It should be for you
USinUK
July 21st, 2011
10:14 am
kayaker – 10:11 –
holy cow. that’s two really good ones today. you’re on fiyah.
1811/0311
July 21st, 2011
10:15 am
And while Jay is blogging about death this morning:
Headline (AJC): “Sheriff: Officers ‘devastated’ over fatal shooting of Clayton deputy”
http://www.ajc.com/news/clayton/sheriff-officers-devastated-over-1029871.html
(and the punk is probably too young to get the death penalty)
Brosephus
July 21st, 2011
10:15 am
kayaker @ 10:11
I could not agree with you more. Bet you thought you’d never see me post that, huh?
1811/0311
July 21st, 2011
10:16 am
Don’t do as I do …………. do as I say:
Headlines:
“Like Obama, Emanuel rejects public schools for his children…”
“CHICAGOLAND: Rahm gets testy about kid question, walks out… “
Larry
July 21st, 2011
10:16 am
Jay, Sorry, I misjudged your audience. They will argue over anything. Good Day!
1811/0311
July 21st, 2011
10:17 am
The debacle under this administration continues:
“JOBLESS JUMPS AGAIN, RISES TO 418,000…”
“15TH STRAIGHT WEEK OVER 400K… “
USinUK
July 21st, 2011
10:18 am
Scout – he’s 17 – I could be wrong, but I think GA has executed younger than that
Brosephus
July 21st, 2011
10:18 am
Scout
That kid will be tried as an adult. Watch!!
ty webb
July 21st, 2011
10:18 am
Suicide should be a legal option. Assisted suicide has many gray areas, which to some extent could be rectified with legal contracts. DNR’s and assisted suicide are two different things.
WOODSTOCK MIKE
July 21st, 2011
10:20 am
Why are Christians automatically associated with being on the right? Anyone care to guess how many Christians are on the left? The numbers may suprise you…
USinUK
July 21st, 2011
10:21 am
ty and kayaker – it’s interesting (to me, anyway) how this issue seems to transcent traditional right and left.
Brosephus
July 21st, 2011
10:23 am
Mike
I guess people are believing the fantasy that’s been spun about the Left being immoral athiests and such. Add the fact that you always hear about the Religious Right, and you have a recipe for Christians to be branded as being on the right.
Jen
July 21st, 2011
10:23 am
I understand! My father died of ALS 18 years ago, and refused to get help. He knew he was terminal and hated being like that, in bed, having people turn him. He lived a little over a year with it, my Mom kept him in the home until the end. He got to see his 4th grandchild, but at that point all he could do was look and smile. Thank god he wasn’t in pain, and my Mom could not understand why he didn’t fight more. I respect his decision, this is someone who, before he got sick, traveled all over with us and then with Mom, when we grew up and left home. Quality of life was not here, and in the end, pneumonia got him, his lungs and all the helpful muscles failed.
Stonethrower
July 21st, 2011
10:25 am
Woodstock Mike
Liberal Christians vs Conservative Christians, can the 2 coexist?
Capt. Orange - "Will Tan For Food (Or Bribes)"
July 21st, 2011
10:25 am
Schiavo was the biggest Christian clusterf*** of the century. It is absolutely none of the government’s or the Church’s business how family members make decisions for their own.
To be fair, the FAMILY were the ones who took their fight first through the court system then to the government when they lost in court. They just refused to let her go – they let their grief over run their common sense.
And, also to be fair, politicians, no matter what stripe, are publicity w@@hores, who will grab onto something, (whether they are for or against it), just so that it’ll get their names in the paper.
Schrodinger's cat
July 21st, 2011
10:26 am
So let get this straight….It’s okay to kill the unborn, and ourselves if we choose, but not the hardened criminals on death row?
Adam
July 21st, 2011
10:32 am
The fact that part of this conversation has turned to a choice between living while racking up expenses for others, versus dying to avoid racking up those expenses, is where the problem lies. We shouldn’t be making an argument like that, because the value of a human life should not be determined in dollar amounts. If that’s the primary reason for someone wanting to die, something is seriously wrong with the way we look at medical care in general.
Doggone/GA
July 21st, 2011
10:33 am
“but not the hardened criminals on death row?”
Speaking for myself, yes. Primarily because so often we got the wrong person. I always come down on the “it’s better that a guilty man go free than that an innocent man be executed” – but also, speaking as a Christian, if we execute them we are denying them their opportunity to repent their sins.
That they might not take advantage of that opportuinty does not, in my mind, negate our responsibility to allow them that chance.
I do not see the death penalty as any kind of punishment for their crimes. You can’t, really, adequately “punish” someone for a horrific crime. You can only exact revenge…and that is what the death penalty, ultimately, is.
delta burke
July 21st, 2011
10:38 am
conservative christians don’t beleive in personal freedom/choice. they wan to control you from the rooter to the tooter. they’ll climb in your bed-whether it’s judging/scolding you for your sexual piccadillos or even if your rotting away in a cold hosptial-they always no best. to paraphrase the stones, “get off my cloud” beotches….
AmVet
July 21st, 2011
10:40 am
Adam. I agree that money is the most important aspect to consider, but….
Does one burn through hundreds of thousands of dollars, that would otherwise go to their children (for example) for a few months of a horrific “life”?
I have no answer, but I think it is a fair question…
delta burke
July 21st, 2011
10:40 am
Oops! typos-believe/want/know…ya’ll get the gist, in a rush, off to the hospital-to see a friend.
Peace, mofo’s
Capt. Orange - "Will Tan For Food (Or Bribes)"
July 21st, 2011
10:42 am
Adam: The fact that part of this conversation has turned to a choice between living while racking up expenses for others, versus dying to avoid racking up those expenses, is where the problem lie……….the value of a human life should not be determined in dollar amounts………….. something is seriously wrong with the way we look at medical care in general.
Most people are concerned with their “Quality of Life” too. Debt is a serious concern, true; but for me it would be like being trapped in a body (with ALS) that would feel like being trapped in a coffin buried underground while i was still alive.
AmVet
July 21st, 2011
10:42 am
Redact my last to read, NOT the most important aspect…
kayaker 71
July 21st, 2011
10:42 am
Capt Orange,
“They let their grief overcome their common sense”. That’s pretty easy to do with grieving families who are in denial. Reality, in times like those, is an elusive thing. The politicians have no dog in this fight. Both Bushes made asses out of themselves.
USinUK
July 21st, 2011
10:42 am
What Doggone said – GA, alone, has executed 5 people who were found to be innocent after the fact
Schrodinger's cat
July 21st, 2011
10:43 am
Adam, Isn’t that the argument made for abortion advocates ? To prevent a woman from being strapped with a child she can’t afford (in one sense or another)?
Capt. Orange - "Will Tan For Food (Or Bribes)"
July 21st, 2011
10:45 am
hmmm that should read: for me it would be like, (with ALS), being trapped in a body that feels like I’m trapped in a coffin buried underground while i was still alive.
USinUK
July 21st, 2011
10:50 am
Schrodinger’s cat – that’s one of the reasons women have ALWAYS gotten abortions, for hundreds of years
Dave R.
July 21st, 2011
10:51 am
“So you think that people who work for a private company and profit from not giving out benefits are more trustworthy than those who are appointed by elected officials?”
Abso – frikkin’ – lutely I would!
But here’s the kicker. I trust ME first, insurance company second and government last. Government always comes in last in every category in my book.
WOODSTOCK MIKE
July 21st, 2011
10:52 am
“If that’s the primary reason for someone wanting to die, something is seriously wrong with the way we look at medical care in general.”
The statement above may be true but sometimes there is no easy answer. The reality is with new medicine and technology humans are going to survive much longer. Costs of keeping someone alive are enormous, that’s just a fact. So, what’s the answer, bankrupt the entire system so we can keep people alive longer?
Dave R.
July 21st, 2011
10:52 am
“Schrodinger’s cat – that’s one of the reasons women have ALWAYS gotten abortions, for hundreds of years”
And here it was that I thought they always got abortions because they always carried the child . . .
Silly me.
Hiya, USinUK!
ty webb
July 21st, 2011
10:56 am
Usinuk,
yeah, many issues overlap…one can be so far “right” that they’re actually “left” on issues, and vice versa. Issues pertaining to individuals liberty(this one, drug legalization, gay marriage, etc) are easliy clear cut to me…my philosophy is simply “leave me alone”.
USinUK
July 21st, 2011
10:56 am
Dave –
well, there IS that.
ty webb
July 21st, 2011
10:57 am
…and my wallet.
Uncle Jed
July 21st, 2011
11:06 am
carlosgvv
July 21st, 2011
8:47 am
You would be amazed at how many “good Christians” woudl stand over these men and deny them the right
++++++++++++++++++
Just jumping in after a meeting and no time to read all the jabs, but to Carlos:
I am amazed at how you continue to deny the fact that counseling could work for your condition.
USinUK
July 21st, 2011
11:16 am
ty – 10:56 – I’d add a “the hell” in there to make the sentiment complete
Dave R.
July 21st, 2011
11:18 am
There is a dichotomy between those who value “life” whether religiously motivated or not, and the same who supposedly value freedom.
After all, couldn’t forcing your view of life on someone simply be considered taking away some part of that person’s freedom?
It is MY life, isn’t it?
Why should the state, via some elected representative who was placed in office by those who value life, be allowed to control whether I choose to live or die at a particular moment?
carlosgvv
July 21st, 2011
11:19 am
jt
If I had my way, a terminally ill person would be allowed euthanasia if they asked for it, provided that a boad certified MD certified they truly had a terminal ilness. Unfortunately, “born again Christians” are in positions of authority in every State and will fight with all their energy to keep these people alive and suffering as long as possible. They do this, of course, in God’s name. They are first cousins in their dogma to Islamic fundamentalists.
deegee
July 21st, 2011
11:19 am
My deceased uncle battled ALS for about 6 years. His family and friends rallied around him until the bitter end. He continues to be an inspiration to me in spirit. As he continued to decline he availed himself to the ALS research facility at Johns Hopkins. He wanted to make a contribution to help cure the disease in whatever way possible.
Speaking of contributions, my uncle was a card carrying member of the Republican Party for most of his adult life. After his ALS diagnosis, the issue of embryonic stem cell research became very important to him. When the Republicans would call him to ask for a contribution to the Party he would let them know that they wouldn’t see a dime from him until they changed their stance on embryonic stem cell research.
Capt. Orange - "Will Tan For Food (Or Bribes)"
July 21st, 2011
11:22 am
Headline: Obama shifts debt-talk tactics, drops call for end to Bush tax rates
Who the hell is advising him, Karl Rove? He just lost my vote — I’d rather vote for a 3 legged donkey carrying Rush Limbaugh and all his money before I’d put Obama back in office. Enough kowtowing. More fighting.
Jay
July 21st, 2011
11:28 am
That’s a headline from back in June, Capt. Orange.
Uncle Jed
July 21st, 2011
11:32 am
The fact that some find themselves in a place where choosing suicide as an option is very sobering. Every time I hear one of these stories, particularly concerning a friend or acquaintance, I realize my many blessings.
+++++++++++++++++
I have read (no citation available) that the rate of suicide increases in tough economic times.
Georgia’s unemployment rate rose to 9.9 percent in June from a revised 9.8 percent in May, the state labor department said Thursday.
The state’s jobless rate has barely improved from a year ago, when it was 10 percent. AJC
Separately, initial claims for state unemployment benefits increased 10,000 to 418,000, the Labor Department said, above economists’ expectations for a rise to 410,000. Reuters
Initial claims have now been above the 400,000 mark for 15 straight weeks. CNBC
On Friday, 1,500 shuttle workers are scheduled to get their pink slips. By the time all the layoff notices are handed out, a total of 8,000 workers will have been cut. ABC
MrLiberty
July 21st, 2011
11:33 am
You either own your own body or the government does. There is no middle ground. If you cannot do with your body as you see fit so long as it causes no direct harm to others, then you are not the owner. Currently we are OWNED BY OUR GOVERNMENT. They restrict our labor, they restrict what we can do with our bodies, they restrict what we can put into our bodies, and they even restrict where we can go with our bodies.
Yes, the right to life is yours because of your existence. It is certainly yours to do with as YOU see fit. Government is a horrible creation of man.
USinUK
July 21st, 2011
11:34 am
wow, uncle jed … you have an amazing grasp of the obvious
Laurie
July 21st, 2011
11:35 am
Thank you for something different today, something for us all to step back and think about.
Rally
July 21st, 2011
11:37 am
The market is winning Obama some polling points. Should come in handy come the election next year, folks. What a market. What a world! The GOP is as it always was: a proper cog in the checks-and-balances wheel. It’s true that liberals would probably turn this country into a nanny-on-a-gravy-train state without the nearly implacable opposition of a contrarian party. That was our founding premise: that absolute power corrupts absolutely. and it does.
Obama a big landslide winner in ‘12.
Hey, where was Murdoch’s wife when Snookie got punched on Jersey Shore?
carlosgvv
July 21st, 2011
11:41 am
Uncle Jed
As just what is this “condition” you speak of?
Sandy
July 21st, 2011
11:41 am
This is so sad. I too once suffered from depression. I thought about suicide many times for many years. Then I went to church with a friend and the minister prophesied to me that I had a suicidal spirit that came from generations before me. She laid hands on me and I was delivered from that spirit. I have not considered suicide since. After I came out of the darkness and God delivered me from that demonic spirit, I realized how selfish I would have been if I would have taken the life that God has blessed me with. Before I was told by one of Gods’ prophets that I had that spirit of me I have never had hands laid on me by any minister. She was on point. God is a loving God. A kind God. I do know that sometimes it doesn’t seem that way but He is wonderful, awesome. I can’t say enough about Him. He is the I AM. Like he told Moses. He is all that and then some!
I know it gets lonely and it’s a very dark place. I too know how members of your family may know or deny the fact that you are depressed. God is the only way. Please get help. Our life here is only for a small portion of time compared to eternity. When your spirit leaves your body it will live on. The choices you make on this earth will determine if you live in peace eternally or live in pure torture eternally. The choice is yours. Choose to live. Ask God to help you with your pain and He will.
bookman parrot
July 21st, 2011
11:42 am
To carlosgvv@
July 21st, 2011
8:47 am,
The Tea Party is not in charge of Washington. It is the libs. So place your blame in the right place.
Capt. Orange - "Will Tan For Food (Or Bribes)"
July 21st, 2011
11:42 am
Oh. Then “never mind……..”
However, I will quickly come back with this ditty – not as OMG as the other headline but, it’s still makes me sick to my stomach. NOTE TO OBAMA: When you have a full house — don’t throw in the cards:
The president, pushing for a deal that would cut the nation’s budget deficit across the next decade and extend the government’s tapped-out borrowing power through the approaching election year, had threatened to veto any stopgap expansion of the nation’s debt limit. He even challenged Cantor, R-Va., not to call his bluff about it in one confrontational moment last week.
Obama’s now-calibrated position, offered by spokesman Jay Carney, reflected the reality: leaders are nearly out of time to head off unprecedented trouble. Carney said if a divided Congress and the White House can agree on a significant deal, Obama would accept a “very short-term extension” of the debt limit to let bigger legislation work its way through Congress.
AngryRedMarsWoman
July 21st, 2011
11:43 am
Tough subject. Healthcare, particularly at end of life, is at once both private and public in that due to insurance and the finite nature of resources we all share in it. That is right folks – we cannot all have every bit of healthcare we need or want as there is only so much to go around. Millions you spend keeping a person on life support in a vegetative state are millions not spent on someone else. Unfortunately, someone has to decide who gets what and money is a determining factor. I have not faced death – I like to think I will be brave and I will do what is “right” and not selfishly suck up resources and keep using organs that could be put to better use by someone else, but humans are naturally selfish and when faced with the choice I might want “just one more day” to look into the faces of my husband and son. I have a living will, so if I am a vegetable and have no hope then the decision is already made….but I am fearful of being in a state where I have to make a conscious decision all by myself. I, like most, hope and pray (to the god of your choice or none) that I am taken quickly and painlessly and don’t have to make a decision – and that my organs are intact and can be used.
Uncle Jed
July 21st, 2011
11:45 am
Just in case the following wasn’t obvious:
July 20, 2011
Concerns About Economy, Jobs Outweigh Worries About Deficit
Almost 9 in 10 Americans say now is not a good time to find quality job
by Frank NewportPRINCETON, NJ –
Americans name the economy and unemployment/jobs as the most important problems facing the nation, as they have all year, despite the dominant focus in Washington on the federal debt ceiling. The deficit comes in third as the top problem, followed by dissatisfaction with government in general, healthcare, and concerns about wars.
What do you think is the most important problem facing this country today?
July 7-10, 2011
Economy in General: 31%
Unemployment/Jobs: 27%
Federal Budget Deficit/Debt: 16%
USinUK
July 21st, 2011
11:47 am
sandy – while I know depression is horribly debilitating, it’s not ALS or other horrible diseases. they can’t “choose” to live -
USinUK
July 21st, 2011
11:48 am
“The Tea Party is not in charge of Washington. It is the libs. ”
looks like SOMEone slept through last november’s elections.
Uncle Jed
July 21st, 2011
11:50 am
As just what is this “condition” you speak of?
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
You answered your own question, my friend, and simultaneously made my point.
,
Capt. Orange - "Will Tan For Food (Or Bribes)"
July 21st, 2011
11:51 am
I too know how members of your family may know or deny the fact that you are depressed. God is the only way.
Sandy although I commend you for fighting your depression and seeking solace in God, the gist of the topic today, (or rather where the conversation is heading), is not about suicide as a means to end depression, but suicide, as means to end debilitating illness and a destruction of quality of life.
Dave R.
July 21st, 2011
11:51 am
I don’t think that 40 or 50 freshman representatives could be considered “in charge”, USinUK.
I prefer to think of them as one big-a$$ed brake being applied before we careen off a cliff . . .
USinUK
July 21st, 2011
11:53 am
Dave – I’m sorry … who’s speaker again?
Pelosi?
no.
Normal
July 21st, 2011
11:55 am
Uncle Jed
July 21st, 2011
11:45 am
I’m willing to bet a dollar to a doughnut that if the government defaults, we will suffer 25% unemployment when the stock market crashes
and business fold or move to other countries. I bet China is laughing out load at us. We will, without a doubt, give them the reins to the global economy.
Uncle Jed
July 21st, 2011
11:56 am
I prefer to think of them as one big-a$$ed brake being applied before we careen off a cliff.
HERE, HERE!
Uncle Jed
July 21st, 2011
11:58 am
@Normal
July 21st, 2011
11:55 am
Before I take you up on the proposed wager; how much does a doughnut cost these days?
1811/0311
July 21st, 2011
11:59 am
Just heard this:
“Someone has to cook the french fries” !
ray
July 21st, 2011
11:59 am
Is committing murder in a death penalty state a form of suicide?
And doesn’t that make the Governor of a that state a Kevorkian when he gives hangman the thumbs up?
Uncle Jed
July 21st, 2011
12:01 pm
Dave – I’m sorry … who’s speaker again?
Pelosi?
no.
++++++++++++++
No indeed; she is now just another braying jackass
Dave R.
July 21st, 2011
12:01 pm
Again, USinUK. One big-a$$ed brake.
But control? No, that would have been from 2008-2010 for the Dems.
There were too many on this blog (even you, perhaps?) who denied total control by the Dems because the Senate didn’t have 60 confirmed votes, so you can’t then claim control when the GOP only has the House of Representatives.
Capt. Orange - "Will Tan For Food (Or Bribes)"
July 21st, 2011
12:01 pm
On a lighter note, Yao Ming retired. He’s living in China, where now he doesn’t have to know the latest “handshake” or words to a rap song. Now he doesn’t have to be beat up by people bigger and stronger than he is every night — he’s the biggest kid on his block in China and he’s learned from the likes of Shaquille and Joakim Noah how to intimidate and dominate weaker wannabe opponents.
Let’s all say “Goodbye and Good luck” to Yao!
1811/0311
July 21st, 2011
12:02 pm
WOODSTOCK MIKE:
Sure there are some Christians on the left. Just remember, not everyone left or right who claims to be a Christian “is one”.
“Help, LORD, for the godly are no more; the faithful have vanished from among men.”
Psalm 12:1
Uncle Jed
July 21st, 2011
12:03 pm
1811/0311
July 21st, 2011
11:59 am
Just heard this:
“Someone has to cook the french fries” !
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Hey Pal, pipe down and eat your peas
Uncle Jed
July 21st, 2011
12:06 pm
There were too many on this blog (even you, perhaps?) who denied total control by the Dems because the Senate didn’t have 60 confirmed votes, so you can’t then claim control when the GOP only has the House of Representatives.
HERE, HERE!
(Roach Coach approacheth. Later.)
Doggone/GA
July 21st, 2011
12:08 pm
“Is committing murder in a death penalty state a form of suicide?”
No, because there is no certainty that you will receive the death penalty for what you did.
Mighty Righty
July 21st, 2011
12:12 pm
These are decisions to be made by the effected individuals and their families, not you, not me, and not by “End of Life Panels” of our government.
carlosgvv
July 21st, 2011
12:14 pm
Uncle Jed
Looks like you’ve been smoking some good Columbian again. (Sorry, my “condition” made me say that.)
Tony
July 21st, 2011
12:18 pm
“I prefer to think of them as one big-a$$ed brake being applied before we careen off a cliff.”
So now it’s the debt? Not a Muslim trying to implement Sharia law? Or socialism? Or the Al Qaeda hiding under our beds? Or Saddam’s WMD?
Funny the way the right’s boogie-man politics excuse them from any obligation to the middle class.
USinUK
July 21st, 2011
12:20 pm
Dave – we weren’t talking about then – we’re talking about now (”The Tea Party is not in charge of Washington. It is the libs.”)
the budget is controlled by the House. the House is controlled by the GOP. you want to call them a handbrake – you’re entitled to your opinion. but, whatever you call them, they’re the ones in charge.
Mighty Righty
July 21st, 2011
12:21 pm
Normal
July 21st, 2011
11:55
If you count ALL of the unemployed, not just those drawing unemployment compensation, the unemployment is very close to twenty percent right now. When you add the under employed you can add another bunch. NASA started laying off a few thousand today. But never fear, the Obama retraining program will retrain the former rocket scientists to flp burgers. What a country!
Darwin
July 21st, 2011
12:21 pm
And what political party would most likely NOT allow people to have the “freedom” to choose?
Tony
July 21st, 2011
12:22 pm
End of life Panels are forcing people to kill themselves?
Really?
josef
July 21st, 2011
12:23 pm
JAY
Good column.
Mighty
“These are decisions to be made by the effected individuals and their families, not you, not me, and not by “End of Life Panels” of our government”
While I don’t share your fear of the end of life panels, I do agree with you. This is, or should be, a private affair. I have a problem with such terms as “euthanasia,” “assisted suicide” and what have you. There are some things that just are and such terms as these rob them of their intimacy.
Normal
July 21st, 2011
12:23 pm
Uncle Jed…more than a dollar, I think…
——————-
Mighty Righty
July 21st, 2011
12:21 pm
Then why make it worse?
Doggone/GA
July 21st, 2011
12:26 pm
“This is, or should be, a private affair. I have a problem with such terms as “euthanasia,” “assisted suicide” and what have you. There are some things that just are and such terms as these rob them of their intimacy”
And I don’t entirely agree. When it’s TOO “intimate” there IS too much danger of unscrupulous family members pressuring a cognizant ill relative to “end it all” when it’s not really neccessary. I belive in voluntary and assisted suicide, but there should be a medical voice in there also – to help keep abusive relatives from doing what is to THEIR “best” and not that of the ill person.
This isn’t a life or death decision, but just check out the situation faced by Mickey Rooney – and fast forward that to what MIGHT have happened had he been seriously ill.
A dad
July 21st, 2011
12:28 pm
Enter your comments here
Jefferson
July 21st, 2011
12:28 pm
The tea party has no power in DC. They have done nothing but make the GOP look worse than it did before. The senate and the oval office hold the cards, the house is a train wreck.
Dave R.
July 21st, 2011
12:29 pm
“Funny the way the right’s boogie-man politics excuse them from any obligation to the middle class.”
Ya know, Tony, I’ve read the Oath of Office each elected representative has to take (and have taken one myself).
Nowhere in that oath are the words “obligation to the middle class”.
Nice poutrage, but ineffective.
dave
July 21st, 2011
12:30 pm
It’s a shame that you can not take your own life, but what’s a bigger shame is that if you go to a doctor and try to get help and tell them that you want to kill yourself they call the cops and have you locked up.
Babs
July 21st, 2011
12:31 pm
My sister died of ALS and I’d begged her to see it out to the end. She did not kill herself, but refused any assistive technology, just wanted pain controlled, comfort measures. It was very painful for her, and of course for us, her loved ones. If I had it to do over, I might not have insisted that she wait for the end. She was in so much pain, even with the pain meds. I was selfish to tell her that.
USinUK
July 21st, 2011
12:31 pm
“The tea party has no power in DC”
they have their delegates by the short and curlies … which, in turn, is leading to this whole “party purity” BS …
their powerbase may be in individual districts, but the squeeze is being felt in the Beltway (or, in this case, below the beltway)
A dad
July 21st, 2011
12:32 pm
Not all “Christians” would deny the right to determine whether to end one’s life or not. Such a decision is a personal choice, and the God I know has given humanity choices throughout our existence on this Earth. We all make choices each and every day, some minor like “hmm, do I want the whole wheat bagel or the fruity pebbles for breakfast” and others much more serious, like “I’m going to abort my child because I don’t want to have one right now.” In each case, we will have to answer for our choices at the end, if the end is as Christians believe. While I believe it is my duty to discuss, listen, counsel, and perhaps even try to persuade someone to take a course of conduct I feel is consistent with my beliefs, in the end the choice is theirs and my belief in God does not require me to deny them the choice that God has given them.
Spiritual Guide
July 21st, 2011
12:33 pm
Make suicide illegal? My dear friends, it’s only your own suicide that’s illegal. The other guy’s suicide is a godsend especially if he belongs to a different political party. (Benjamin Franklin 1776)
Jefferson
July 21st, 2011
12:33 pm
The house flips in 2 years, they are just hot air temps in a lot of cases elected by slogan of the week buyers.
Dave R.
July 21st, 2011
12:34 pm
I just find it laughable, USinUK, that the very same Dems who vehemently denied control when they had BOTH houses are now so adamant that the GOP is in control.
Tony
July 21st, 2011
12:37 pm
Ya know, Dave, I actually am impressed with the way you wear your ignorance on your chest.
The health of the middle class IS this country’s lifeline.
Ask your history teacher when school starts back, kid.
absolutely
July 21st, 2011
12:37 pm
It absolutely is a right. Anybody who would disagree with that doesn’t have a clue.
Keith Obermann
July 21st, 2011
12:41 pm
It’s fine for Republican women and Tea party clowns!!
carlosgvv
July 21st, 2011
12:41 pm
Dave R.
It is the Republican Tea Party in Congress who is holding up a deal on our debt crisis. That you do not realize this is not laughable, just pathetic.
josef
July 21st, 2011
12:42 pm
Doggone
I understand your concerns about the bad family, and I realize this may sound a bit cold blooded, but, well, we don’t always have a choice in the family and what those relations are are from life. I agree with you on the doctor’s diagnosis being important. That, too, in my opinion is something private and, to a great extent, it is not fair to put him/her in a “decision” position. That is why, bottom line, and just speaking from my own experiences and my own wish for myself, is that with the proper medical/condition information, the person can make an informed choice and take the action him or herself. I know there are those situations where that is not possible, Schivo being a good example. There is the conundrum and I cannot be cold blooded one way or the other. Each case has its own peculiars.
USinUK
July 21st, 2011
12:42 pm
“I just find it laughable, USinUK, that the very same Dems who vehemently denied control when they had BOTH houses are now so adamant that the GOP is in control.”
I’m sure you do, Dave.
however, since the GOP demanded a supermajority for every vote (with the exception of the approval of the previous day’s calendar), then I think it can be argued that, no, they didn’t have as much control as you like to think.
Martha
July 21st, 2011
12:44 pm
re: the remarks by Marty Murray that “ALS is totally solvable”- where did you get this information? I am a registered nurse with 30+ years of experience including many years in ICU where I cared for several ALS patients. ALS is a fatal disease with no cure at present. The best medical science can do is to prolong the inevitable outcome. If you know how to “solve” this, please elucidate.
Paulo977
July 21st, 2011
12:44 pm
“The Tea Party is not in charge of Washington. It is the libs. ”…..
OMG , is it NCLB that has caused this ???
WOODSTOCK MIKE
July 21st, 2011
12:45 pm
“Funny the way the right’s boogie-man politics excuse them from any obligation to the middle class.”
Tony, let’s just go back to the last Republican president, George Bush, please explain to me how the middle class was so bad off? And now that a Democrat is in office please also tell me how things are so much better for the middle class?
Doggone/GA
July 21st, 2011
12:49 pm
“I know there are those situations where that is not possible, Schivo being a good example. There is the conundrum and I cannot be cold blooded one way or the other. Each case has its own peculiars.”
The Schaivo case gets used a lot in discussion like this, but if you dig into it you’ll find that the REAL issue was that her parents did not want her husband to be the one to make the decisions. They fought him every inch they could and beyond, but when all the fighting was exhausted, they lost. He WAS her legal next of kin and it was HIS decision to make, since she was incapable of making it for herself.
USinUK
July 21st, 2011
12:49 pm
Paulo – nah. it’s more like a lot of margaritas – slept through the last 9 months …
Thulsa Doom
July 21st, 2011
12:50 pm
USinUk thinks someone slept through the last elections and that the Republicans are in control?
Apparently she slept through civics class. Math too. The Dems still control the Senate and of course the presidency. So of the 3 elected possibilities- the senate, house, and presidency the Republicans only control one third.
Mighty Righty
July 21st, 2011
12:52 pm
USinUK
July 21st, 2011
12:42 pm
however, since the GOP demanded a supermajority for every vote (with the exception of the approval of the previous day’s calendar), then I think it can be argued that, no, they didn’t have as much control as you like to think.
Add your comment
The super majority thing required Democrat approval and that never happened. There is this black guy keeps showing up on my tv claiming to be the president and he says basicly that with out his approval nothing is going to happen? Is he wrong? I really thought he could stop any piece of legislation. You must know something the rest of us don’t know.
USinUK
July 21st, 2011
12:53 pm
woodstock mike –
“Tony, let’s just go back to the last Republican president, George Bush, please explain to me how the middle class was so bad off?”
http://blogs.thisismoney.co.uk/2010/02/homebuyer-mortgage-amounts-vs-average-wages.html
last time I saw a line that flat, it was yellow and in the middle of the road.
Thulsa Doom
July 21st, 2011
12:54 pm
Mighty Righty,
Seems obvious. Can’t you figure it out? Its W’s fault.
Larry
July 21st, 2011
12:54 pm
USinUK – I believe the House under Republican leadership has passed a budget. It seems like the Democratic controlled Senate and the POTUS don’t like budgets.
USinUK
July 21st, 2011
12:54 pm
“I really thought he could stop any piece of legislation. You must know something the rest of us don’t know.”
evidently, I know a lot of things you don’t know, particularly as pertains to how government works.
USinUK
July 21st, 2011
12:56 pm
Thulsa – “So of the 3 elected possibilities- the senate, house, and presidency the Republicans only control one third.”
yep.
The president doesn’t write legislation –
and the house is in charge of approps.
so, there is a BALANCE of power.
mm
July 21st, 2011
12:56 pm
Next on the GOP’s screw it up” list: The FAA.
Dave R.
July 21st, 2011
12:57 pm
“It is the Republican Tea Party in Congress who is holding up a deal on our debt crisis.”
Hence the term “big-a$ed brake”, carlos.
Larry
July 21st, 2011
12:59 pm
Dave R – One could say it is the Obama controlled Senate that is holding up a deal too.
Thulsa Doom
July 21st, 2011
12:59 pm
USinUK,
We all know that. But the point is that when it comes to getting things actually passed the Dems control 2/3rds of the elected govt. The repubs obviously have some power with control of the house but the Dems have more power with the Senate and additionally the president and his veto power.
Capt. Orange - "Will Tan For Food (Or Bribes)"
July 21st, 2011
12:59 pm
MR: If you count ALL of the unemployed, not just those drawing unemployment compensation, the unemployment is very close to twenty percent right now……………. But never fear, the Obama retraining program………… What a country!
Just a quick question, but what is the unemployment rate in your state? In my state, Ga., which is republican it is 9.9% — however, I have not heard ONE WORD against the republican gov. of this state concerning joblessness or job creation by the “rights” on this blog. Do you have any idea why?
DaveR: Ya know, Tony, I’ve read the Oath of Office each elected representative has to take (and have taken one myself). Nowhere in that oath are the words “obligation to the middle class”.
No your oath problably said something about kissing the feet of your corporate masters — or words similiar to that affect.
Babs: If I had it to do over, I might not have insisted that she wait for the end. She was in so much pain, even with the pain meds. I was selfish to tell her that.
We are all selfish when it comes to our loved ones. I have never been put in a position where someone close to me has been diagnosed with a painful, debilitating disease; however, I *hope* that I would be able to let them go, no matter how much it hurt me. You made a mistake, but you’ve learned from it.
USinUK
July 21st, 2011
1:01 pm
Thulsa – and a veto is only as good as a 2/3 majority to override.
and the Senate can’t do bupkis about approps until the House give them something.
so your whole “the Dems have all the power” construct really doesn’t hold water.
WOODSTOCK MIKE
July 21st, 2011
1:01 pm
USinUK
“last time I saw a line that flat, it was yellow and in the middle of the road.”
Not quite sure how the chart you posted on housing in the UK and Britain ties in to my comments?
raleigh rules
July 21st, 2011
1:02 pm
If heaven is full of your typical southern christian hypocrite-I’ll take purgatory for $1000, Alex!
Dave R.
July 21st, 2011
1:03 pm
“Ya know, Dave, I actually am impressed with the way you wear your ignorance on your chest.
The health of the middle class IS this country’s lifeline.
Ask your history teacher when school starts back, kid.”
Tony, your above comments are what is known as a defection. That being that when you can’t actually debate an issue on the merits of someone’s comments, you first attack them, then you state something absolutely unconnected to the comment, then you call the person stupid.
So I’ll ask you, Tony, how many oaths of office have you taken in your lifetime? How many oaths to preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States of America have you taken?
Then tell me where the term “middle class” is contained in any of the one’s you took.
Thulsa Doom
July 21st, 2011
1:04 pm
Capt. orange,
In terms of unemployment I don’t think there is any question that overall the red states are doing much better than the blue states. Yeah, Georgia has high unemployment. But look at Republican led Nebraska which has the lowest unemployment rate in the nation at 4.1%, look at Utah, look at Texas which vis a vis blue state California blows away California in terms of economic growth and especially jobs growth. Unemployment in Texas is 8% while the national average is 9.2%. What is California? 10% or more? As for the unemployment rate in Georgia how long have we had a Republican governor?
Dave R.
July 21st, 2011
1:06 pm
“One could say it is the Obama controlled Senate that is holding up a deal too.”
Actually, Larry, that is more than a truth than this nonsense about the GOP House being in control, as the House has already passed legislation waiting for the Dem-controlled Senate to vote on it.
josef
July 21st, 2011
1:06 pm
Doggone
That is why I said each case is different…and the bottom line there is that, yes, as her next of kin his decision should never have been in question, much less the public spectacle. Going one step further here, though, this is why “gay marriage” is so important here. Unmentionable’s is his mother and she and I have had our “meeting of the minds” on this. Mine is my brother with whom my relations are highly strained. The paperwork should be in line, but there are enough horror stories to make us unsure. So far we’ve had no problems (i.e. during the heart attack), but that might well be just as much the emergency room being at “his” hospital as not. Who knows what would happen in some out of the way place where we’re not known?
mm
July 21st, 2011
1:06 pm
The rightwing bogeyman: Welfare.
I guess you don’t remember 1996.
But righties and facts are like oil and water.
Capt. Orange - "Will Tan For Food (Or Bribes)"
July 21st, 2011
1:08 pm
Janus: We all know that. But the point is that when it comes to getting things actually passed the Dems control 2/3rds of the elected govt
Glad you mentioned that Doom. So when the repubs (that’s right I’m going back to the BEGINNING of the debt crisis when the repubs had control), controlled the House, Senate and Presidency during the Bush era, and then voted to do away with the Clinton “Pay As You Go’ budget plan, voted to borrow money from the Chineese Government at ridiculous rates, voted to keep 2 wars off the books, voted to bring military action into Afghanistan AND Iraq — did you see those moves as moves that would eventually substantially increase America’s debts, or, being the truly partisian mouthpiece that you are, did you think that everything that was done by the repubs in power was a good, fiscally “conservative” thing?
Just wanna know.
Thulsa Doom
July 21st, 2011
1:08 pm
USinUK,
You’re right and there is no way you’re going to change your mind. Somehow or another its always the Republican’s fault. I’m just wondering if in your view if its a) the current house republicans fault b) if its still W’s fault or c) its both their faults. I’m banking that you’ll pick c.
USinUK
July 21st, 2011
1:10 pm
Mike – see what happens when you have 4 docs open at once? oy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:United_States_Income_Distribution_1967-2003.svg
that’s the one I meant to post
josef
July 21st, 2011
1:11 pm
raleigh
And what, pray tell, is a “typical Southern Christian hypocrite?” I’m not a Christian myself, but it has been my experience that there is no such thing as a “typical” Christian of any region or even of any “brand.” And I’ve found pretty much an equal representation of the hypocrites among them all. That’s a mighty broad brush there.
Oh, and purgatory? So which brand of Christian are YOU? It is my understanding that the concept of purgatory is limited to a few brands…
USinUK
July 21st, 2011
1:11 pm
Thulsa – “Somehow or another its always the Republican’s fault. ”
nope.
nope – it’s only their fault when it is their fault.
and what “it” are you referring to “if its a) the current house republicans fault b) if its still W’s fault or c) its both their faults. I’m banking that you’ll pick c.”
Mighty Righty
July 21st, 2011
1:14 pm
Capt. Orange – “Will Tan For Food (Or Bribes)”
July 21st, 2011
12:59 pm
My state has a Republican Govenor and an unemploymnet rate of 9 point something, BUT our govenor has not borrowed and squandered 3 trillion dollars as Obama did.
Capt. Orange - "Will Tan For Food (Or Bribes)"
July 21st, 2011
1:14 pm
Janus: Capt. orange, In terms of unemployment I don’t think there is any question that overall the red states are doing much better than the blue states.
Yeah, Georgia has high unemployment. But look at Republican led Nebraska which has the lowest unemployment rate in the nation at 4.1%, look at Utah, look at Texas which vis a vis blue state California blows away California in terms of economic growth and especially jobs growth.
California per person is more populous than Nebraska and Utah COMBINED. As for Texas, their unemployment, per person, is ON PAR with california. Methinks you’re making up crap off the top of your head (as usual).
As for the unemployment rate in Georgia how long have we had a Republican governor?
10 years.
WOODSTOCK MIKE
July 21st, 2011
1:15 pm
USinUK
“that’s the one I meant to post”
Maybe I’m reading the chart wrong but the bottom 3 lines which I assume would be considered middle to lower class have been flat since 1965?
USinUK
July 21st, 2011
1:17 pm
“BUT our govenor has not borrowed and squandered 3 trillion dollars as Obama did.”
ohsweetjeebus.
are you effing KIDDING me???
are you honestly comparing the governorship of ONE state to the presidency??
Thulsa Doom
July 21st, 2011
1:17 pm
Capt. Orange,
Nope. Unlike you I can actually put my partisanship aside- as well as the namecalling(Janus).
The Repubs bear a great deal of responsbibility for the 4 trillion in debt that was run up by W during the years they were in power. No question about that. As does the Democrat house and Senate in Bush’s last 2 years. Just being fair of course.
W ran up roughly 4 trillion in 8 years. Obama has run up roughly the same in less than 3 years. Just as I acknowledge the debt W ran up are you willing to likewise acknowledge that Obama and the Dem controlled house and senate his first 2 years has run up significantly more debt on a year by year basis than W ever had? Something tells me you won’t .
josef
July 21st, 2011
1:17 pm
PAULO
That’s the ticket! If we’ve got to have something/someone to blame, NCLB has got MY vote, work of the devil, it is!
Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)
July 21st, 2011
1:17 pm
Well, the stories is real sad and it all makes you feel bad. But it’s a Big Sin to off yourself. If the Lord wants you to suffer big-time, you got to do it. I mean, the Lord beleives in Personal Responsibility too. The Lord is a Conservative Republican. Good people that are right with the Lord pass on real quiet and without alot of pain. I don’t know what it is that these two people done to get the Lord in a bad mood, but they need to ride it out to the end. And if they try and flustrate the Will of the Lord and don’t get it done right, we’ll have no choice but to arrest them.
I’m kind of suprized nobody on this blog brought up Prayer to Heal. I mean, they could bring in somebody like Oral Roberts—I said like Oral Roberts, because the Rev. Roberts is dead, since he never got around to healing hisself—to heal them. Since nobody brought it up, it tells me all I need to know about the heathens on this blog.
Anyhow, I’ll ask the church to say a prayer for these two guys next time I’m down at the Church of Holiness. If I can remember them. Meantime, have a good p.m. everybody.
Capt. Orange - "Will Tan For Food (Or Bribes)"
July 21st, 2011
1:18 pm
MR: My state has a Republican Govenor and an unemploymnet rate of 9 point something, BUT our govenor has not borrowed and squandered 3 trillion dollars as Obama did.
There’s always a BUT in there somehow. Yes it’s true the repubs did away with Clinton’s Pay As You Go Plan…….BUT……..Yes, it’s true they kept the wars off the books…….BUT…….o.k it is true that they did in fact borrow money from China………….BUT………..
WOODSTOCK MIKE
July 21st, 2011
1:18 pm
“Really? Please hold for the chart I’m gonna pull up for ya in a minute.”
And how’s the unemployment rate doing for the entire country?
USinUK
July 21st, 2011
1:18 pm
woodstock – slight growth in the 90s … dip in the 00’s
(and, yes, flat when compared to the top percentiles … as we’ve discussed here on many occasions)
so tell me again, how “great” the middle class had it ???
Jefferson
July 21st, 2011
1:21 pm
In the end, because they fail to accomplish what they promise the GOP has no credibility, blame whoever you want but they are not effective legislators.
WOODSTOCK MIKE
July 21st, 2011
1:21 pm
“so tell me again, how “great” the middle class had it ???”
Never said the middle class was doing great, listen, your chart shows very clearly that whether there is a Democrat or Republican in office there is very little difference in middle class wages since 1965, so let’s move on to the next reason why a Democrat is so much better for middle class America?
vamp
July 21st, 2011
1:22 pm
Amen, Brother Redneck. Your posts make my day. I could listen to your wisdom all day long. God Bless.
Capt. Orange - "Will Tan For Food (Or Bribes)"
July 21st, 2011
1:22 pm
Also MR and Janus, (which you told me it was o.k. for me to call you that), my point is that you two have never once said ONE WORD against your republican governor about your STATE’s unemployment numbers! The STATE is ran by your govenor not Obama. Yet you continually blame him for all the ills that your state is responsible for.
Why?
josef
July 21st, 2011
1:22 pm
vamp
I bet you like Stepin Fetchitt, too…
WOODSTOCK MIKE
July 21st, 2011
1:23 pm
“because they fail to accomplish what they promise”
And is Obama held to this same standard? Has he accomplished what he promised?
WOODSTOCK MIKE
July 21st, 2011
1:24 pm
“The STATE is ran by your govenor not Obama. Yet you continually blame him for all the ills that your state is responsible for.”
Funny when a Republican is in office the above doesn’t apply?
Mighty Righty
July 21st, 2011
1:24 pm
USinUK
July 21st, 2011
1:17 pm
I referenced the 12:59 to which I was referring.
Thulsa Doom
July 21st, 2011
1:26 pm
Capt. Orange,
Perhaps you are lacking in the understanding of percentages. It doesn’t matter if CA has a significantly larger population than Utah or Neb. That is irrelevant when talking about the unemployment rate.
If you think California’s unemployment rate is on par with Texas then you need to have your head examined. That is laughable. I’m about to fall out of my chair I’m laughing so hard. Texas is 8 or 8.1%. I’ll look up California’s just to help you out a bit and get back to you.
You’re a funny guy. Next you’re probably going to deny that the general trend according to the latest census is that the red states are gaining in populations and in congressional seats via reapportionment while the blue states are in general losing both populations and seating to the red states. People vote with their feet sir.
Georgia has had a Republican governor for 10 years. Then you will gladly give them credit for the good times as well as the bad times right? Or is that asking too much of you?
1811/0311
July 21st, 2011
1:27 pm
HEY JAY ……………. WHERE’S YOUR CHART ???
HEADLINE: “DEM POLL: OBAMA WOULD LOSE TODAY”
HEADLINE: “OBAMA LEGACY MAY BE WITHERING AMERICAN DREAM…”
Truth
July 21st, 2011
1:27 pm
carlosgvv
July 21st, 2011
8:47 am
“…You would be amazed at how many “good Christians” woudl stand over these men and deny them the right to decide to end their suffering. They would not hesitate to impose their beliefs on them in the name of their “God of love”. Tea Party people in Congress have this kind of mentality, which explains this strange, crazy mess we now have in Washington..”
Oh really? Since you have just crawled out from under a rock; there’s been quite a “mess” in Washington BEFORE any Tea Party people arrived. Not a smart one, are ya?
USinUK
July 21st, 2011
1:30 pm
Mighty Righty – then why on earth would I blame W? I don’t mind you accusing me of bias – I am biased – but, at least be logical.
Mike – FWIW (and this is just my opinion, so it and $1.50 will get you a cup of coffee), I think it’s because the Dems try to implement programs to help the middle class with the things that affect their lives (health care as a big for instance), whereas all the GOP wants to do is cut taxes and let the chips fall where they may.
Thulsa Doom
July 21st, 2011
1:31 pm
Capt. Orange,
I’m sorry but I was mistaken on California’s unemployment rate. It is not 10% as I thought. It is significantly different. Texas is at 8.1%
USinUK
July 21st, 2011
1:31 pm
and, with that, I’m a-heading home …
night all!
Capt. Orange - "Will Tan For Food (Or Bribes)"
July 21st, 2011
1:32 pm
Janus: . Just as I acknowledge the debt W ran up are you willing to likewise acknowledge that Obama and the Dem controlled house and senate his first 2 years has run up significantly more debt on a year by year basis than W ever had? Something tells me you won’t .
Dude it’s like Groundhog Day around here, I’ve started just keeping links around since I have to use them over and over and over to discount some of the right wing punditry! OK here we go again – Obama used the second half of the Bush Bailout Package (originally voted for in Nov. 2008); to bail out the Wall Street and the Banks, (DEBT). This “debt” was part of the original package that was approved by both the Dems and the Repubs under Bush — Obama just wanted the second half immediately to continue the progress made. Obama (unlike Bush) put the two wars on the books (DEBT).
There. Satisfied?
Mighty Righty
July 21st, 2011
1:33 pm
Capt. Orange – “Will Tan For Food (Or Bribes)”
July 21st, 2011
1:22 pm
Our governor has held office since January of THIS year. I don’t know if he has done a good or poor job. I know this, he hasn’t been bragging about how he has turned the economy around at a cost $286,000 per fictitious job and three trillion dollars. He is not asking for even more money as our illustrious president is. I don’t think he has been on vacation yet compared to……..Ha,Ha, excuse me our part time non leader.
Jefferson
July 21st, 2011
1:36 pm
WM – Sure you can, change the subject if want.
Thulsa Doom
July 21st, 2011
1:38 pm
Captain Orange,
I have my own theory as to why Georgia has such high unemployment rates. It does have something to do with Dems, our education levels in general, demographics. Too much to go into but we can just go ahead and blame the governor if you want. That’s cool and doesn’t bother me one iota.
Capt. Orange - "Will Tan For Food (Or Bribes)"
July 21st, 2011
1:39 pm
Janus: Perhaps you are lacking in the understanding of percentages. It doesn’t matter if CA has a significantly larger population than Utah or Neb. That is irrelevant when talking about the unemployment rate.
Oh D-Word please. Can that superior attitude and start using the brains that god gave you for something other than repeating Rush’s talking points. Lacking an understanidng of percentages? HA! 5% of 100 is 5. 5% of 100,000 is 5,000. Now tell me again how a “larger population is irrelevant”.
Laura
July 21st, 2011
1:41 pm
Hospitals and doctors stop getting paid when you kill your self, and churches, too. They do not deserve your trust. This is why all of those organizations don’t want you to have the ultimate freedom, which is to use that ‘final exit ramp’ when the time is right. Its the same reason the Cancer Society, et al does not really want to find a cure, because a cure would mean the end of their paycheck. There is more money to be made treating the symptoms of whatever ails you, than finding a cure.
Bruno
July 21st, 2011
1:44 pm
Jay–Well written piece and a subject worthy of discussion. I’m short on time, as usual, so will try to put my two cents in later.
In the meantime, for my Brother AmVet:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GZZldMkpkU
Thulsa Doom
July 21st, 2011
1:47 pm
Captain Orange,
Why does it matter if California is a larger state. As you yourself pointed out the unemployment rate is a % of people unemployed. If CA has say 20 million people and Utah and Nebraska have say a combined population of 5 million then what does it matter if its 20 million or 5 million when you are looking at percentages.
WOODSTOCK MIKE
July 21st, 2011
1:47 pm
” Its the same reason the Cancer Society, et al does not really want to find a cure, because a cure would mean the end of their paycheck”
Wow, this is one sorry way to look at things and certainly can’t be backed up with any evidence whatsoever. So, all doctors that handle cancer research are in on one big conspiracy to make more money. This isn’t only in the US, all doctors across the globe in on one big conspiracy. What a sad mentality to actually believe something this rediculous.
Capt. Orange - "Will Tan For Food (Or Bribes)"
July 21st, 2011
1:48 pm
MR: Our governor has held office since January of THIS year. I don’t know if he has done a good or poor job.
Since I don’t know what state you live in — ok — I’ll take your word for it. However, my next question would be “And?”
I know this, he hasn’t been bragging about how he has turned the economy around at a cost $286,000 per fictitious job and three trillion dollars. He is not asking for even more money as our illustrious president is. I don’t think he has been on vacation yet compared to……..Ha,Ha, excuse me our part time non leader.
Again, I’ll ask “And?”…………………..
He’s a governor of ONE STATE not the President of 50. His concerns should only be for his state, not the ones surrounding him. Your govenor’s priorities are slightly different from the president’s, HOWEVER your governor is the one responsible for the job growth in your state, NOT the president. If you have a problem with job growth, look to the source not to a scapegoat.
Doom: I have my own theory as to why Georgia has such high unemployment rates. It does have something to do with Dems, our education levels in general, demographics.
You’re blaming the Dems AND education? Too funny!! Republicans have completely ran this state for 10 yeas now, they’ve butchered, hatcheted, and cut education down to the the barest bones possible, and yet, it is somehow the DEM’s fault? Haa!
Too much to go into but we can just go ahead and blame the governor if you want.
Who else can be blamed? SonnyDo wanted to spend MILLIONS on the “Go Fish” project, at the same time he was gutting the education funds. You want good schools? Well PAY YOUR TEACHERS good salaries! Calling them names, blaming them for taking lemons and trying to make lemonade is not the answer. Working with them and trying to HELP them is.
josef
July 21st, 2011
1:50 pm
LAURA
Well, if that’s the way you feel and the way you see things, you might be happier if you did take the next exit.
Bosch
July 21st, 2011
1:52 pm
” There is more money to be made treating the symptoms of whatever ails you, than finding a cure”
I actually agree with that and it bothers me to think I’ve become so cynical about things. However, I will add one iota (I saw that word earlier and realized how much I liked that word and hadn’t used it in a while) of a defense — as with most anything there are those who would abuse the system if we were to allow just straight up suicide — I am reminded of a poster here a few days ago lamenting over an inheritance that disappeared because the old cooter of a grandfather didn’t have enough cajones to just die! He took too long!!! I know from personal experience there is unfortunately that element in most cases of terminal illness as well.
Thulsa Doom
July 21st, 2011
1:54 pm
Consequently I do owe Captain Orange an apology on a bogus stat that I posted where I was going off the top of my head. You see I thought Texas had an unemployment rate of 8% and that California was around 10% and I was dead wrong about California.
You see Captain Orange stated that California’s unemployment rate was “on par” with Texas unemployment rate which I thought was the single most ludicrous statement of the day. I mean I thought that was really just dumb, dumb, dumb.
In any event I googled Cali’s unemployment rate and the latest data available had Cali at 11.7% for the month of May. So my 10% guess was demonstrabley incorrect and Cali’s unemployment rate was dramatically higher than even I thought.
But Captain Orange’s statement that Cali’s unemployment rate of 11.7% is on par with Texas at 8.1% definitely, unequivocally, and without a doubt stands as the most ignorant post of the day, possibly the week in fact. Captain Orange with your profound display of awe in the arena of ignorance I hereby dedicate and bestow the title of Captain Orignorance upon thee.
You are dumber than my box of rocks.
josef
July 21st, 2011
1:58 pm
BOSCH, LAURA
And does this apply to the medical personnel in your own families…? I can assure you, they DO care and it does weigh heavily on them. They are not soulless creatures without human emotions.
Oh, yeah, Bosch…
” There is more money to be made treating the symptoms of whatever ails you, than finding a cure”
Sounds like the Department of Education, don’t it!
And shut up…
WOODSTOCK MIKE
July 21st, 2011
1:59 pm
“I know from personal experience there is unfortunately that element in most cases of terminal illness as well.”
Yup, I have been through this as well, my grandmother had severe dementia for the last 5 or so years of her life, because she had about 250K in the bank she didn’t qualify for any govt assistance, so basically over that period of time the money was used, no inheritance left for her children, everything gone and she didn’t even know it was happening.
Bosch
July 21st, 2011
2:01 pm
josef,
To be honest, my sister the nurse, because of her profession is much more of a soulless creature without human emotion. There is some in there, but not near as much as me and my other sister. She gets pissed if we call her and ask for advice if we or my kids are sick.
Like I wrote earlier, it does bother me that I’ve become so cynical as to believe that, but I do. I believe there are wonderful doctors, nurses, priests, whatever, but as to the general picture, I do think what Laura wrote is pretty accurate.
So…..YOU shut up!
Bosch
July 21st, 2011
2:02 pm
And josef,
I do see your Dept. of Ed point!
Thulsa Doom
July 21st, 2011
2:02 pm
Captain Orignorance aka ebbie done wrong is sure working herself into a lather, or is that blather in her case? She got so excited she is sayingrs. I was calling teachers names even though I clearly did not. In fact I said nothing about teachers. Yes. It is clearly the Repub governors fault that the APS and Clayton county boards are run by a bunch of nuts. Just curious but I wonder what the political makeup is of the folks who run the Clayton and APS school boards? Hmmm. I think the captain of ignorance is about to blow herself a fuse with that one.
Capt. Orange - "Will Tan For Food (Or Bribes)"
July 21st, 2011
2:04 pm
There you go again Doomed — I always know when someone has you on the “ropes” when you start denigrating and sneering like an old maid at a wedding! (60 year old Old Maid- “When I get married, I’d nevah use those colors in my bouquet!”). You can’t refute the basic logic of my post, so you take one segment, blow it up way out of proportion, then condemn it with nauseating commentary. In essence you can’t win so you sneer — how very school girlish of you!
Doom it’s good to see that some things don’t change — your lack of common sense and courtesy is one thing that will remain the same forever. Oh wait…….I forgot to add your bigotry, misogyny, homophobia, and erectile dysfunction too. Good to know some things never change!!
Bosch
July 21st, 2011
2:04 pm
“so basically over that period of time the money was used, no inheritance left for her children, everything gone and she didn’t even know it was happening”
Woodstock Mike,
That is what that money is for. It really disturbs me when descendents look at money a relative has and think of it as their “inheritance” or their money.
poison pen
July 21st, 2011
2:05 pm
Thulsa, I would say that he stretches the truth a little, snicker, snicker.
Stooge Theory
July 21st, 2011
2:06 pm
Look, it’s not a contest. Ignorance has been bestowed equally upon us all with no one to blame for our par ignorance, (other than our parents)….. because their own parents did what they thought was best at the time, it being the depression, or the sixties, or the debut of the first Kiss album and all.
As we do the best we can to our own young ones. But it don’t help calling each other what’s so obvious.
josef
July 21st, 2011
2:08 pm
BOSCH
I understand how you may see her as soulless and I don’t know her or her character as a person. However, do you know what comes out in the “pillow talk” when that guard can, and is, let down and the soul bared? I do.
And, glad you see the point on the Dept. of Ed…that’s really what I was trying, not so artfully, to say yesterday.
So, you shut up…
But not before you tell me, how’s the new bidness going? Loved that thing the other day about “stamping” everything in sight…
Stooge Theory
July 21st, 2011
2:09 pm
I’d like to see a postulate. An original proposal about the state of our nation as it gets hopelessly entangled with the world.
You were saying………
WOODSTOCK MIKE
July 21st, 2011
2:10 pm
“That is what that money is for. It really disturbs me when descendents look at money a relative has and think of it as their “inheritance” or their money.”
It really disturbs me when someone interprets something wrong and makes a dumb statement. My point was with modern medicine able to keep people alive that shouldn’t be all it does is drain their assets. If you don’t think that family members know and think about an inheritance what planet are you from? I’m not implying that family wanted her to die so they could get paid, what the point was is many people save their money over a lifetime to leave for their children and for it to be wiped out unknowingly is tragic. Get it?
josef
July 21st, 2011
2:10 pm
THULSA, ORANGE
Ooooohhh, good, b*tch fight! Takes our minds off the final curtain!
Mighty Righty
July 21st, 2011
2:12 pm
Capt. Orange – “Will Tan For Food (Or Bribes)”
July 21st, 2011
1:48 pm
He’s a governor of ONE STATE not the President of 50. His concerns should only be for his state, not the ones surrounding him. Your govenor’s priorities are slightly different from the president’s, HOWEVER your governor is the one responsible for the job growth in your state, NOT the president. If you have a problem with job growth, look to the source not to a scapegoat.
I live in Georgia.
If the president is not responsible for job growth why does he spend so much time taking credit for job growth? He spent trillions trying to cut into the unemployment numbers and brags about it. I see how you want it to work. When Bush was president, you blamed him for unemployment but now that the Bush presidency was so much better than Obama on job growth, you say the president doesn’t control job growth. There is no limit to the lengths you will go to try to make Obama look good. The numbers don’t lie. Unemployment 9.2%, and 1.7 million per month losing their jobs. Gasoline prices at near alltime high rate. Food prices up. Three wars. Three trillion in budget deficits. World wide prestige at all time low. All this bad news in less than three years. Excuses won’t cut it. Obama is the president, he is in charge, it is his economy per Debbie Wasserman Shults, Dem. Florida.
Bosch
July 21st, 2011
2:14 pm
Woodstock Mike,
“My point was with modern medicine able to keep people alive that shouldn’t be all it does is drain their assets.”
And if we had a single payer system, that would never be an issue.
Point is, that was HER money, not her descendents. And if you are so concerned about families receiving their inheritance, then I would expect you to be all over the single payer system.
Stooge Theory
July 21st, 2011
2:14 pm
I love the way Josef politely commands Laura to commit suicide. He is a righteous christian god, who must slay those who stand as contrarians opposed to his self-reinforced supply of his own perpetual-motion morality code.
Bosch
July 21st, 2011
2:16 pm
josef,
The new business is going well — hitting a few snafus, but nothing I can’t handle. You should see my desk, my “seal” is everywhere. I did worry myself the other day looking at the pups ears thinking, “I wonder if they are thin enough to slide into the stamp opening.” I scared myself and woke up from my mania.
Mighty Righty
July 21st, 2011
2:16 pm
Gotta Go
Thulsa Doom
July 21st, 2011
2:22 pm
Captain Ignorance aka debbie done wrong,
You had me on the ropes? It must have been when you nailed me with that statment that Cali’s 11.7% unemployment rate was on par with Texas 8.1% unemployment rate that put me on the ropes. So much for that bit you said about me making up stats. Seems you were the one making stuff up on the fly as evidenced by the real stats. Its ok. You now stand corrected.
denigrating and sneering? And um. Who started the denigrating and sneering? Yup. Go back and looke it up to see who started that. I don’t start it. I just finish it like I’m finishing you off for lunch.
My lack of common sense and courtesy? This from the person who started off first with the name calling and petty insults? Kettle meet pot please!
Your forgot to add my bigotry, misoginy, homophobia, and erectile dysfunction. Sheesh your my urologist too? My misogyny? Are you confusing me with a rap star? Bigotry? Yep. You’ve definitely confused me with Jessie Hymietown Jackson or Louie “white devils” Farrakhan. Homophobia? Boy you got all of your own brand of stereotyping and pre-conceived, pre judging, and namecalling covered today. Well almost. You might have wanted to throw in xenophobia just for good measure. Just look it up in the dictionary first and then you can use it next time. Until then TOOODLES!
ricardus
July 21st, 2011
2:24 pm
Check the Scriptures. The answer is there. All answers are there.
Thulsa Doom
July 21st, 2011
2:25 pm
josef,
After the show you and Bosch gave us yesterday I figured it was ya’lls turn to get some popcorn and watch a show.
Capt. Orange - "Will Tan For Food (Or Bribes)"
July 21st, 2011
2:26 pm
MR: I live in Georgia.
Which has had a republican Governor for the past 10 years.
If the president is not responsible for job growth why does he spend so much time taking credit for job growth?
Off the top of my head I’ll say it’s because people, like you, blame him for when the job growth is down. He, the president, can not create jobs, he can have an environement that helps jobs to foster, but he can’t create jobs.
He spent trillions trying to cut into the unemployment numbers
Prove please.
and brags about it. I see how you want it to work. When Bush was president, you blamed him for unemployment
Again, proof please. Please show me a post, comment, etc. where I blamed Bsuh for unemployment. I’ll wait.
There is no limit to the lengths you will go to try to make Obama look good. The numbers don’t lie. Unemployment 9.2%, and 1.7 million per month losing their jobs.
Some of those jobs were lost because tea pee’s were screaming about “massive government” so those people who held government jobs were laid off — I thought you guys would be happy. Some jobs are lost at the state level, (like fire, police, etc.); because the state can’t aford to keep those people employed. However, again, that’s a STATE problem — not the government.
Gasoline prices at near alltime high rate.
Obama doesn’t run OPEC or Exxon — as a matter of fact when he made BP pay for that oil spill, a lot of repubs were angry and crying foul over that! Man, the guy can’t win for loosing huh?
Food prices up. Three wars.
Two wars — both of which were under Bush — did you complain then?
Obama is the president, he is in charge, it is his economy per Debbie Wasserman Shults, Dem. Florida.
OK so when Obama authorized the Navy Seals to take out Bin Laden, why then was it a “Seals” directive and not an Obama directive since he’s the one in charge? If Obama suddenly gave each American $1.5M; two cars, a chicken in every pot, AND paid off their mortgages; I think you’d still complain.
Just saying…………….
josef
July 21st, 2011
2:26 pm
Stooge
There was no command form of the verb in that post. I am not a Christian. I just found it a rather bleak assessment of life. I also took a certain umbrage at the assessment of the medical profession. It was she who went to passing judgment, not I.
Thulsa Doom
July 21st, 2011
2:28 pm
poison pen,
She’s always good for some fun. At least she didn’t threaten me with the brother’s shooting me with tec-9s like she did last time. Classy gal she is.
1811/0311
July 21st, 2011
2:29 pm
Good grief ! Look at this photo of Mussolini ………. I mean “El Jefe” !
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/
josef
July 21st, 2011
2:30 pm
Thulsa
Not to speak for Bosch here, but it does look like we may have reached a certain point of agreement. Scarey, isn’t it!
josef
July 21st, 2011
2:31 pm
BOSCH
Hope you can get by the snafus with a minimum of frustration and can “keep the glow on!”
DawgDad
July 21st, 2011
2:32 pm
“Some of those jobs were lost because tea pee’s were screaming about “massive government” so those people who held government jobs were laid off ”
Didn’t want this gem to stay buried in your long post.
1811/0311
July 21st, 2011
2:32 pm
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.presentationsunplugged.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/mussolini.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.presentationsunplugged.com/blog/%3Fp%3D5422&h=374&w=267&sz=13&tbnid=YR_BGM2XebcVJM:&tbnh=90&tbnw=64&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dmussolini%2Bphotos%26tbm%3Disch%26tbo%3Du&zoom=1&q=mussolini+photos&hl=en&usg=__-v1d5dJn5FBGfsC-HUEe1y0fRxc=&sa=X&ei=SXAoToG3LuTd0QHW76X1Cg&sqi=2&ved =0CCYQ9QEwBA
Bosch
July 21st, 2011
2:32 pm
josef,
Operative word being “certain” — I still think that even if the Dept. of Education were eliminated, the tasks they do would just go to some other dept.
AmVet
July 21st, 2011
2:35 pm
How nice.
I check in and find that an “arch conservative” leaves me (an arch liberal?) a link to one of my very favorite songs ever.
That Bruno is one helluva good guy and one helluva rocker. And one of the best on-line pals a guy could have.
Back at ya, brother B…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPLi0dq0tOk
Stooge Theory
July 21st, 2011
2:35 pm
Bookman wrote from his own personal experience about the value of living. He effectively contemplated the fragile nature of our existence as human beings and the effect our demise has upon others. But there are his detractors: Josef so easily wishes the demise of anyone who dare oppose his own well-formed views, and as he profusely illustrates the many different methods by which his own supremacy can thus be ensured, (complete with the perfect cheer), I would suggest that Josef not experience the end of his own life, but rather that he coordinate his own precious presence with the natural old-age destiny of any relative in his own decaying orbit. Witness a relative’s death, sir. Be there for that person. Then, sir, and only then, sir, you should try to command the vengence of your own god against those who would dare venture a opposition to your so well-formed righteous dedications.
Your soul. Your choice, Josef of the many-colored moral cloaks.
jklol
Capt. Orange - "Will Tan For Food (Or Bribes)"
July 21st, 2011
2:36 pm
Doomed Janus: denigrating and sneering? And um. Who started the denigrating and sneering? Yup. Go back and looke it up to see who started that. I don’t start it. I just finish it like I’m finishing you off for lunch.
Doom anytime you wanna eat me let me know — I’ll make sure I don’t bathe for a month, just to make it interesting.
Your forgot to add my bigotry, misoginy, homophobia, and erectile dysfunction. Sheesh your my urologist too?
Nope — your name is on every bathroom wall from here to Athens. It seems you’re having a hard time with Mr. Happy……….don’t worry — I hear Viagara works wonders.
My misogyny? Are you confusing me with a rap star?
Nope rap stars are rich – you are poor. No confusion.
Bigotry? Yep. You’ve definitely confused me with Jessie Hymietown Jackson or Louie “white devils” Farrakhan.
Well, I guess I should’ve called you a racist — but that’s so over used and blase these days.
Homophobia? Boy you got all of your own brand of stereotyping and pre-conceived, pre judging, and namecalling covered today. Well almost. You might have wanted to throw in xenophobia just for good measure. Just look it up in the dictionary first and then you can use it next time. Until then TOOODLES!
Homophobia, arachnophobia, sexophobia, toilet-training-ophobia, cantgetitupophobia, you name, you got it. Sorry — help is only a 1-900 number away. You have friends, (that are usually paid for), in your times of need.
Thulsa Doom
July 21st, 2011
2:37 pm
josef,
I believe Bosch @ 2:32 may have just picked it up all over again. Lemme go git my popcorn.
1811,
I thought Mussolini was Il Duce or douche. Not el jefe.
josef
July 21st, 2011
2:37 pm
BOSCH
And I agree they would go there, and I think, just my opinion, increasingly limited resources could be more effectively husbanded doing that…
Left wing management
July 21st, 2011
2:40 pm
Afternoon folks. We still waitin for Godot here?
josef
July 21st, 2011
2:41 pm
Stooge
Number one, I HAVE died! Brought back thanks to the medical profession and glad to be here! Second, you have no idea whose hands I have held as they passed on…be careful with that. And I did not WISH anything on anyone in that post…I simply said she might want to consider it…
josef
July 21st, 2011
2:42 pm
Left wing…
Godot? Ooooh…you didn’t…!! I was thinking more “No Exit!”
Capt. Orange - "Will Tan For Food (Or Bribes)"
July 21st, 2011
2:43 pm
She’s always good for some fun. At least she didn’t threaten me with the brother’s shooting me with tec-9s like she did last time. Classy gal she is.
What I said was “Doomed!! Don’t look behind you!! A bunch of “those people” are after you!!! I think a few of them may have the right to VOTE!! Or maybe even NRA memberships!!”
Or something to that effect. You took it as a threat — which just goes to show what a little punk b##ch you are!
Capt. Orange - "Will Tan For Food (Or Bribes)"
July 21st, 2011
2:44 pm
ooops sorry!! Meant to erase that last sentence, don’t want to be banned or warned by Jay. I’m outta here just in case. Later.
Left wing management
July 21st, 2011
2:45 pm
Hate to say it folks, but I’ve changed my position on the debt default in the last week or so. Since we’re dealing with what appears to be an absolute political deadlock, I’m thinking that a default may now be the only alternative at this point.
The only way around it in my view is if the president is willing to go the nuclear option and invoke the 14th amendment — but unfortunately we don’t have that president.
I would be extremely surprised if this president — a timid and gentle man, a true product of the technocratic manager class who apparently has zero ability to think outside of it — would be willing to provoke a fight on that level. Bill Clinton would have done it, no question about that — but not THIS president.
carlosgvv
July 21st, 2011
2:46 pm
Truth
I am talking about the particular kind of mess we have now, the debt ceiling one. I would have thought that was obvious. However, it is obviously you who are not the smart one.
roach coach 2012
July 21st, 2011
2:47 pm
Get your free obama burgers. Get ‘em while they’re hot!
Thulsa Doom
July 21st, 2011
2:48 pm
Captain Orignorance,
Otay. I enjoyed some of the 2:36 post. A couple of chuckles on the bit about toilet-training-phobia and about the not bathing for a month before I eat. Come to think of it you just gave me a visual that makes me want to cry uncle. The rest of the insults were kind of juvenile, not really very witty for the most part. Still kinda enjoyed them though.
One thing that’s interesting though is that I notice that whenever you completely blow a gasket and go all out and into the stratosphere you get heavy into the can’t get it up, need viagra, can’t perform bit. What’s that all about? You must have had some boyfriends or husbands with that issue and thus you think that issue is much more common than you think. I’m pretty sure that 30 years from now when I’m in my 70s I still won’t be needing viagra.
Nevertheless good one on the not bathing for a month. uhhgh. Its still killing me to think about it.
josef
July 21st, 2011
2:49 pm
Left wing
Yeah! And Hillary would be in there with a nutcracker…
Thulsa Doom
July 21st, 2011
2:54 pm
Debbiedoneright,
Actually I never felt threatened with the Tec-9 statement. It was actually kinda funny but I felt bad for you. What they say about some people being so quick tempered seems to be true. No wonder so many folks get shot and killed over the most minor disputes. Its a shame.
Little punk bi##tch I am? Spoken in true ebonics gutter language. Can’t you come up with something more original or witty?
Capt. Orange - "Will Tan For Food (Or Bribes)"
July 21st, 2011
2:55 pm
One thing that’s interesting though is that I notice that whenever you completely blow a gasket and go all out and into the stratosphere you get heavy into the can’t get it up, need viagra, can’t perform bit. What’s that all about? I’m pretty sure that 30 years from now when I’m in my 70s I still won’t be needing viagra.
Noticed you picked that one point out of all the others, wonder why…………????
Nevertheless good one on the not bathing for a month. uhhgh. Its still killing me to think about it
Then my work here is done.
Later Doomed Janus, I hope your two faces get well and truly sunburned to go along with that red neck of yours.
Capt. Orange - "Will Tan For Food (Or Bribes)"
July 21st, 2011
2:56 pm
Little punk bi##tch I am? Spoken in true ebonics gutter language. Can’t you come up with something more original or witty?
Why waste it on you?
josef
July 21st, 2011
2:56 pm
Is that really you, DDR?
Thulsa Doom
July 21st, 2011
2:57 pm
Captain Orignorance,
Unfortunately you were right about some of those people being able to vote. I here ya’ll round up every election day, ply them with cigs, 40 ounce malt liquor, and lotto tickets and bus them on down to the voting precinct. We wanna make sure they get their free sh#t of course.
Left wing management
July 21st, 2011
2:58 pm
josef: “Yeah! And Hillary would be in there with a nutcracker…”
Hillary would have thrived in this kind of environment.
On the policy level, she’d have been no different than this president, but at the crucial level of ideological framing she would have likely been extremely effective. Who knows she might have even moved left of what one would expect.
Capt. Orange - "Will Tan For Food (Or Bribes)"
July 21st, 2011
2:58 pm
Oh and today, in honor of Stands great link (from earlier); I am Capt. Orange — in honor of true bi-partisianship spirit, you can be “The Human Toad” — or better yet, Sir Dunce-a-lot!
Doggone/GA
July 21st, 2011
3:00 pm
“Is that really you, DDR?”
Yep
Thulsa Doom
July 21st, 2011
3:00 pm
Captain Orignorance aka DDR,
May you enjoy the rest of this beautiful day relaxing on the street corner with a 40 ouncer, a pipe, and may you finally hit that winning lotto #!
Capt. Orange - "Will Tan For Food (Or Bribes)"
July 21st, 2011
3:01 pm
Is that really you, DDR?
Yep — Stands linked us to a really great Tom Tommorrow cartoon early this a.m. (around 7:15 or so); it moved me so much, I decided to become Cpt. Orange — I thought thte toon was hilarious!
josef
July 21st, 2011
3:03 pm
DDR
If that is you, you might like to know that you have donated 6 cents to the Indemnities/Restitution efforts! (So have some others! They might not approve, but they did!)
roach coach 2012
July 21st, 2011
3:10 pm
Muffins…Get ur free pelsoi muffins. And for a limited time only, Capt. Orange’s one month old vintage.
Get ‘em while they’re hot!
josef
July 21st, 2011
3:11 pm
ZamVet
In case you check in,,,here’s hoping you’re enjoying your…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFMLARtqxCY
Thulsa Doom
July 21st, 2011
3:15 pm
Captain Orignorance,
Otay. Have a good night and when you head back to the projects keep your head down. Wouldn’t want you to get hit by any of those stray bullets. The virile young black men or “urban gentleman” as I call them never made it. Seems they got gunned down by a rival gang. Oh well. At least it saved us taxpayers the cost of incarcerating them. Just a few less thugs robbing, raping, and murdering people.
AmVet
July 21st, 2011
3:26 pm
Thanks for the Peppers, jo jo.
I survived the jet lag, sleep deprivation, Carmageddon and partying like a teenager, but alas, I’m back in Hotlanta. But it was another fine Cali tour, albeit much too short.
I’ve got a number of really good friends out there, including a drop dead gorgeous red head and former dancer for ABC, who is well……never mind. Gentlemen never tell.
For you, my friend…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6G7MkBMVxE
Parks63
July 21st, 2011
3:27 pm
Why can’t a DNR order be issued on a driver’s license? At the DMV, a person can register to vote and donate their organs. A DNR shouild be included.
pat
July 21st, 2011
3:28 pm
Nobody is required to live by artificial means. Refusing that assistence, such as the traciotomy will allow him to die sooner. I to, in a terminal state would refuse treatments that will only prolong the eneviatble.
@@
July 21st, 2011
3:32 pm
OMG!
I’ve got a number of really good friends out there, including a drop dead gorgeous red head and former dancer for ABC, who is well……never mind. Gentlemen never tell.
….they just bullsh*t about all their women.
Couldn’t resist a-a-a-a-AND
schnirt
Fred
July 21st, 2011
3:35 pm
Amvet, Bruno: Great tunes. I saw them for the last time in either ‘87 or ‘88 in Munich. Musta been ‘88 because they originally planned to tour the US and I was thinking great, I’m about to be shipped back Stateside and can see them there. The tour fizzled though, I can’t remember why…….. At the same concert, the original Jefferson Airplane reunited as well and played. Tull closed the day out. I have to search my mind for who else was there. it was completely awesome though.
josef
July 21st, 2011
3:36 pm
ZamVet
Thanks, Bud…and in case you may have missed it, I’m now a Christian! I guess I wasn’t a real Jew after all, eh?
Fred
July 21st, 2011
3:41 pm
LWM: You have lost me with the 14th amendment. i just read it again but don’t see what you are referring to……….. can you explain it so someone as mentally challenged as I am can understand? And please type slowly as I read slowly………..
AmVet
July 21st, 2011
3:50 pm
jonix, I saw that! Good luck with it!
If you need to borrow it, I have a Star of David, with a cross inside of it!
Freddie, saw them in 1975 in a rinky place in Lakeland, Florida. They pretty much tore the place down…
@@, I knew you’d get a kick out of that. I presume you’re not a lesbian, but if you were, you’d write about her too! LOL!
@@
July 21st, 2011
4:06 pm
AmVet:
This is what you’re missing. Women choose to date men who DON’T brag about their conquests. Sooooo…if a man like you, brags about his conquests, chances are no self-respecting woman would date you.
Bimbos? They’re a whole different species. If stupid does it for you, then fine.
1811/0311
July 21st, 2011
4:21 pm
Thulsa Doom@ 2:37
“I thought Mussolini was Il Duce or douche. Not el jefe.”
He was …………….. “O”pressor is “El Jeffe”.
Uncle Jed
July 21st, 2011
4:36 pm
josef
July 21st, 2011
2:49 pm
Left wing
Yeah! And Hillary would be in there with a nutcracker…
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I hear she once worked at Little Rock Bowl & Skate. Got fired for ball busting.
AmVet
July 21st, 2011
5:03 pm
D2nb@ss, like YOU of all people know about self-respecting women?!
ROTFLMAO.
I doubt any man here would ____ you with Andy’s ____!
More ribald laughter!
Ashamed
July 21st, 2011
5:29 pm
Wow…….a compassionate thought provoking column by Jay ( Did I really just say that?), and let the Christian bashing begin! So many times comments in this column bash
stereotyping of of any group….not today. All conservative Christians are incapable of compassion or individual thought. Those of you that feel that way have obviously had bad experiences with so called “Christians” and I hate that you have been left with that impression. Obviously Christians must do a better job worldwide in sharing the love and compassion of Christ……In the mean time we don’t need to turn every type of editorial into a you versus me battle. Sometimes that’s just not relevant.
Question Man
July 21st, 2011
10:20 pm
Very well done commentary.
theodore
July 21st, 2011
10:41 pm
Anyone interested in this should search for “Terry Pratchett” and read his opinion and watch the BBC (I think it was BBC) special on assisted suicide. He was diagnosed with early-onset alzheimers several years ago, and has decided that ‘death before dishonour’ is his choice.
The Thin Guy
July 22nd, 2011
1:40 am
Everyone has the right to decide when it’s time to pull the plug. But try to think of a painless way to go
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-14218733
Old proverb: Do not seek death. It will find you soon enough.
Adam
July 25th, 2011
8:52 am
AmVet: I agree the question needs to be asked. I do not like that fact though. It means our entire focus has turned dark when it comes to any health care at all. The first thing you think about is how much it costs. Whether you are the person who needs the care, or you are just a family member who could be looked on suspiciously for other monetary gains or losses when it comes to something that might be fatal.
The entire problem is our focus on money when it comes to health care. We should refocus, get health care for everyone through taxes like every other reasonable country in the world. Then we wouldn’t be having these stupid money debates when it comes to saving lives.
As a side note we also need to stop crashing the world economy so that people can go “but COUNTRY X has been doing that and they are in crisis!” Yes, they are in crisis, thanks to the people whose taxes you so want to protect from going up while not bothering to protect and secure your own future or the future of most of the globe.