Two brave emissaries from a strange and terrible place
Dudley Clendinen is a former editor at the AJC, among other places, although I do not know him personally. His time here in Atlanta did not coincide with mine.
Last year, Clendinen was diagnosed with amyotrophic lateral sclerosis, better known as Lou Gehrig’s disease. In an essay in last weekend’s New York Times, he writes about how heartened he has been by the way his friends and relatives have rallied around him.
” … one, from Texas, put a hand on my thinning shoulder and appeared to study the ground where we were standing. He had flown in to see me.
“We need to go buy you a pistol, don’t we?” he asked quietly. He meant to shoot myself with.
“Yes, Sweet Thing,” I said, with a smile. “We do.”
I loved him for that.
As Clendinen notes, ALS — or “Lou,” as he calls it — is “not a kind disease.”
“The nerves and muscles pulse and twitch, and progressively, they die. From the outside, it looks like the ripple of piano keys in the muscles under my skin. From the inside, it feels like anxious butterflies, trying to get out. It starts in the hands and feet and works its way up and in, or it begins in the muscles of the mouth and throat and chest and abdomen, and works its way down and out. The second way is called bulbar, and that’s the way it is with me. We don’t live as long, because it affects our ability to breathe early on, and it just gets worse. “
Having thought about it long and hard, and having witnessed the long, drawn-out death of his mother, Clendinen has made a decision.
“If I choose to have the tracheotomy that I will need in the next several months to avoid choking and perhaps dying of aspiration pneumonia, the respirator and the staff and support system necessary to maintain me will easily cost half a million dollars a year. Whose half a million, I don’t know.
I’d rather die.”
No, Clendinen writes, he won’t do it by firearm. But he will do it, and has apparently made arrangements so that he’s ready when he decides the time has come.
Reading Clendinen’s essay, I couldn’t help but notice the contrast with the approach taken by another journalist, a man I did know. Brian Dickinson, the editorial page editor and columnist of the Providence (R.I.) Journal, was a man of charisma and talent. Like Clendinen, he was diagnosed with ALS.
Brian, however, chose to play it out all the way to the end. He lived for a decade after his initial diagnosis, a decade of decline and stubborn refusal. “Except for the fact that I can still manage a smile and still have full control of my eye muscles, I could almost be taken for some outlandish display in Madame Tussaud’s wax museum,” he wrote in 1998, six years into his sentence. In those last years, technology allowed Dickinson to communicate and even write regular columns through the blinking of his eyes.
“Combat against ALS is its own reward,” he wrote. “The disease now defines the terms of my existence. If I were to cave in too easily, I would be violating the terms of an implicit contract that I had with someone.”
I would not judge either man. The course each chose requires its own sort of bravery, and the decision they faced is perhaps the most personal, intimate decision that human intelligence allows or condemns us to make.
Like emissaries from a land we hope we never visit, Dickinson and Clendinen have each tried to tell us how it feels and what it means to face such a situation, but perhaps the most important lesson they teach is that human beings will respond to the same predicament very differently, and should be allowed the freedom to do so.
– Jay Bookman
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341 comments Add your comment
WOODSTOCK MIKE
July 21st, 2011
12:45 pm
“Funny the way the right’s boogie-man politics excuse them from any obligation to the middle class.”
Tony, let’s just go back to the last Republican president, George Bush, please explain to me how the middle class was so bad off? And now that a Democrat is in office please also tell me how things are so much better for the middle class?
Doggone/GA
July 21st, 2011
12:49 pm
“I know there are those situations where that is not possible, Schivo being a good example. There is the conundrum and I cannot be cold blooded one way or the other. Each case has its own peculiars.”
The Schaivo case gets used a lot in discussion like this, but if you dig into it you’ll find that the REAL issue was that her parents did not want her husband to be the one to make the decisions. They fought him every inch they could and beyond, but when all the fighting was exhausted, they lost. He WAS her legal next of kin and it was HIS decision to make, since she was incapable of making it for herself.
USinUK
July 21st, 2011
12:49 pm
Paulo – nah. it’s more like a lot of margaritas – slept through the last 9 months …
Thulsa Doom
July 21st, 2011
12:50 pm
USinUk thinks someone slept through the last elections and that the Republicans are in control?
Apparently she slept through civics class. Math too. The Dems still control the Senate and of course the presidency. So of the 3 elected possibilities- the senate, house, and presidency the Republicans only control one third.
Mighty Righty
July 21st, 2011
12:52 pm
USinUK
July 21st, 2011
12:42 pm
however, since the GOP demanded a supermajority for every vote (with the exception of the approval of the previous day’s calendar), then I think it can be argued that, no, they didn’t have as much control as you like to think.
Add your comment
The super majority thing required Democrat approval and that never happened. There is this black guy keeps showing up on my tv claiming to be the president and he says basicly that with out his approval nothing is going to happen? Is he wrong? I really thought he could stop any piece of legislation. You must know something the rest of us don’t know.
USinUK
July 21st, 2011
12:53 pm
woodstock mike –
“Tony, let’s just go back to the last Republican president, George Bush, please explain to me how the middle class was so bad off?”
http://blogs.thisismoney.co.uk/2010/02/homebuyer-mortgage-amounts-vs-average-wages.html
last time I saw a line that flat, it was yellow and in the middle of the road.
Thulsa Doom
July 21st, 2011
12:54 pm
Mighty Righty,
Seems obvious. Can’t you figure it out? Its W’s fault.
Larry
July 21st, 2011
12:54 pm
USinUK – I believe the House under Republican leadership has passed a budget. It seems like the Democratic controlled Senate and the POTUS don’t like budgets.
USinUK
July 21st, 2011
12:54 pm
“I really thought he could stop any piece of legislation. You must know something the rest of us don’t know.”
evidently, I know a lot of things you don’t know, particularly as pertains to how government works.
USinUK
July 21st, 2011
12:56 pm
Thulsa – “So of the 3 elected possibilities- the senate, house, and presidency the Republicans only control one third.”
yep.
The president doesn’t write legislation –
and the house is in charge of approps.
so, there is a BALANCE of power.
mm
July 21st, 2011
12:56 pm
Next on the GOP’s screw it up” list: The FAA.
Dave R.
July 21st, 2011
12:57 pm
“It is the Republican Tea Party in Congress who is holding up a deal on our debt crisis.”
Hence the term “big-a$ed brake”, carlos.
Larry
July 21st, 2011
12:59 pm
Dave R – One could say it is the Obama controlled Senate that is holding up a deal too.
Thulsa Doom
July 21st, 2011
12:59 pm
USinUK,
We all know that. But the point is that when it comes to getting things actually passed the Dems control 2/3rds of the elected govt. The repubs obviously have some power with control of the house but the Dems have more power with the Senate and additionally the president and his veto power.
Capt. Orange - "Will Tan For Food (Or Bribes)"
July 21st, 2011
12:59 pm
MR: If you count ALL of the unemployed, not just those drawing unemployment compensation, the unemployment is very close to twenty percent right now……………. But never fear, the Obama retraining program………… What a country!
Just a quick question, but what is the unemployment rate in your state? In my state, Ga., which is republican it is 9.9% — however, I have not heard ONE WORD against the republican gov. of this state concerning joblessness or job creation by the “rights” on this blog. Do you have any idea why?
DaveR: Ya know, Tony, I’ve read the Oath of Office each elected representative has to take (and have taken one myself). Nowhere in that oath are the words “obligation to the middle class”.
No your oath problably said something about kissing the feet of your corporate masters — or words similiar to that affect.
Babs: If I had it to do over, I might not have insisted that she wait for the end. She was in so much pain, even with the pain meds. I was selfish to tell her that.
We are all selfish when it comes to our loved ones. I have never been put in a position where someone close to me has been diagnosed with a painful, debilitating disease; however, I *hope* that I would be able to let them go, no matter how much it hurt me. You made a mistake, but you’ve learned from it.
USinUK
July 21st, 2011
1:01 pm
Thulsa – and a veto is only as good as a 2/3 majority to override.
and the Senate can’t do bupkis about approps until the House give them something.
so your whole “the Dems have all the power” construct really doesn’t hold water.
WOODSTOCK MIKE
July 21st, 2011
1:01 pm
USinUK
“last time I saw a line that flat, it was yellow and in the middle of the road.”
Not quite sure how the chart you posted on housing in the UK and Britain ties in to my comments?
raleigh rules
July 21st, 2011
1:02 pm
If heaven is full of your typical southern christian hypocrite-I’ll take purgatory for $1000, Alex!
Dave R.
July 21st, 2011
1:03 pm
“Ya know, Dave, I actually am impressed with the way you wear your ignorance on your chest.
The health of the middle class IS this country’s lifeline.
Ask your history teacher when school starts back, kid.”
Tony, your above comments are what is known as a defection. That being that when you can’t actually debate an issue on the merits of someone’s comments, you first attack them, then you state something absolutely unconnected to the comment, then you call the person stupid.
So I’ll ask you, Tony, how many oaths of office have you taken in your lifetime? How many oaths to preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States of America have you taken?
Then tell me where the term “middle class” is contained in any of the one’s you took.
Thulsa Doom
July 21st, 2011
1:04 pm
Capt. orange,
In terms of unemployment I don’t think there is any question that overall the red states are doing much better than the blue states. Yeah, Georgia has high unemployment. But look at Republican led Nebraska which has the lowest unemployment rate in the nation at 4.1%, look at Utah, look at Texas which vis a vis blue state California blows away California in terms of economic growth and especially jobs growth. Unemployment in Texas is 8% while the national average is 9.2%. What is California? 10% or more? As for the unemployment rate in Georgia how long have we had a Republican governor?
Dave R.
July 21st, 2011
1:06 pm
“One could say it is the Obama controlled Senate that is holding up a deal too.”
Actually, Larry, that is more than a truth than this nonsense about the GOP House being in control, as the House has already passed legislation waiting for the Dem-controlled Senate to vote on it.
josef
July 21st, 2011
1:06 pm
Doggone
That is why I said each case is different…and the bottom line there is that, yes, as her next of kin his decision should never have been in question, much less the public spectacle. Going one step further here, though, this is why “gay marriage” is so important here. Unmentionable’s is his mother and she and I have had our “meeting of the minds” on this. Mine is my brother with whom my relations are highly strained. The paperwork should be in line, but there are enough horror stories to make us unsure. So far we’ve had no problems (i.e. during the heart attack), but that might well be just as much the emergency room being at “his” hospital as not. Who knows what would happen in some out of the way place where we’re not known?
mm
July 21st, 2011
1:06 pm
The rightwing bogeyman: Welfare.
I guess you don’t remember 1996.
But righties and facts are like oil and water.
Capt. Orange - "Will Tan For Food (Or Bribes)"
July 21st, 2011
1:08 pm
Janus: We all know that. But the point is that when it comes to getting things actually passed the Dems control 2/3rds of the elected govt
Glad you mentioned that Doom. So when the repubs (that’s right I’m going back to the BEGINNING of the debt crisis when the repubs had control), controlled the House, Senate and Presidency during the Bush era, and then voted to do away with the Clinton “Pay As You Go’ budget plan, voted to borrow money from the Chineese Government at ridiculous rates, voted to keep 2 wars off the books, voted to bring military action into Afghanistan AND Iraq — did you see those moves as moves that would eventually substantially increase America’s debts, or, being the truly partisian mouthpiece that you are, did you think that everything that was done by the repubs in power was a good, fiscally “conservative” thing?
Just wanna know.
Thulsa Doom
July 21st, 2011
1:08 pm
USinUK,
You’re right and there is no way you’re going to change your mind. Somehow or another its always the Republican’s fault. I’m just wondering if in your view if its a) the current house republicans fault b) if its still W’s fault or c) its both their faults. I’m banking that you’ll pick c.
USinUK
July 21st, 2011
1:10 pm
Mike – see what happens when you have 4 docs open at once? oy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:United_States_Income_Distribution_1967-2003.svg
that’s the one I meant to post
josef
July 21st, 2011
1:11 pm
raleigh
And what, pray tell, is a “typical Southern Christian hypocrite?” I’m not a Christian myself, but it has been my experience that there is no such thing as a “typical” Christian of any region or even of any “brand.” And I’ve found pretty much an equal representation of the hypocrites among them all. That’s a mighty broad brush there.
Oh, and purgatory? So which brand of Christian are YOU? It is my understanding that the concept of purgatory is limited to a few brands…
USinUK
July 21st, 2011
1:11 pm
Thulsa – “Somehow or another its always the Republican’s fault. ”
nope.
nope – it’s only their fault when it is their fault.
and what “it” are you referring to “if its a) the current house republicans fault b) if its still W’s fault or c) its both their faults. I’m banking that you’ll pick c.”
Mighty Righty
July 21st, 2011
1:14 pm
Capt. Orange – “Will Tan For Food (Or Bribes)”
July 21st, 2011
12:59 pm
My state has a Republican Govenor and an unemploymnet rate of 9 point something, BUT our govenor has not borrowed and squandered 3 trillion dollars as Obama did.
Capt. Orange - "Will Tan For Food (Or Bribes)"
July 21st, 2011
1:14 pm
Janus: Capt. orange, In terms of unemployment I don’t think there is any question that overall the red states are doing much better than the blue states.
Yeah, Georgia has high unemployment. But look at Republican led Nebraska which has the lowest unemployment rate in the nation at 4.1%, look at Utah, look at Texas which vis a vis blue state California blows away California in terms of economic growth and especially jobs growth.
California per person is more populous than Nebraska and Utah COMBINED. As for Texas, their unemployment, per person, is ON PAR with california. Methinks you’re making up crap off the top of your head (as usual).
As for the unemployment rate in Georgia how long have we had a Republican governor?
10 years.
WOODSTOCK MIKE
July 21st, 2011
1:15 pm
USinUK
“that’s the one I meant to post”
Maybe I’m reading the chart wrong but the bottom 3 lines which I assume would be considered middle to lower class have been flat since 1965?
USinUK
July 21st, 2011
1:17 pm
“BUT our govenor has not borrowed and squandered 3 trillion dollars as Obama did.”
ohsweetjeebus.
are you effing KIDDING me???
are you honestly comparing the governorship of ONE state to the presidency??
Thulsa Doom
July 21st, 2011
1:17 pm
Capt. Orange,
Nope. Unlike you I can actually put my partisanship aside- as well as the namecalling(Janus).
The Repubs bear a great deal of responsbibility for the 4 trillion in debt that was run up by W during the years they were in power. No question about that. As does the Democrat house and Senate in Bush’s last 2 years. Just being fair of course.
W ran up roughly 4 trillion in 8 years. Obama has run up roughly the same in less than 3 years. Just as I acknowledge the debt W ran up are you willing to likewise acknowledge that Obama and the Dem controlled house and senate his first 2 years has run up significantly more debt on a year by year basis than W ever had? Something tells me you won’t .
josef
July 21st, 2011
1:17 pm
PAULO
That’s the ticket! If we’ve got to have something/someone to blame, NCLB has got MY vote, work of the devil, it is!
Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)
July 21st, 2011
1:17 pm
Well, the stories is real sad and it all makes you feel bad. But it’s a Big Sin to off yourself. If the Lord wants you to suffer big-time, you got to do it. I mean, the Lord beleives in Personal Responsibility too. The Lord is a Conservative Republican. Good people that are right with the Lord pass on real quiet and without alot of pain. I don’t know what it is that these two people done to get the Lord in a bad mood, but they need to ride it out to the end. And if they try and flustrate the Will of the Lord and don’t get it done right, we’ll have no choice but to arrest them.
I’m kind of suprized nobody on this blog brought up Prayer to Heal. I mean, they could bring in somebody like Oral Roberts—I said like Oral Roberts, because the Rev. Roberts is dead, since he never got around to healing hisself—to heal them. Since nobody brought it up, it tells me all I need to know about the heathens on this blog.
Anyhow, I’ll ask the church to say a prayer for these two guys next time I’m down at the Church of Holiness. If I can remember them. Meantime, have a good p.m. everybody.
Capt. Orange - "Will Tan For Food (Or Bribes)"
July 21st, 2011
1:18 pm
MR: My state has a Republican Govenor and an unemploymnet rate of 9 point something, BUT our govenor has not borrowed and squandered 3 trillion dollars as Obama did.
There’s always a BUT in there somehow. Yes it’s true the repubs did away with Clinton’s Pay As You Go Plan…….BUT……..Yes, it’s true they kept the wars off the books…….BUT…….o.k it is true that they did in fact borrow money from China………….BUT………..
WOODSTOCK MIKE
July 21st, 2011
1:18 pm
“Really? Please hold for the chart I’m gonna pull up for ya in a minute.”
And how’s the unemployment rate doing for the entire country?
USinUK
July 21st, 2011
1:18 pm
woodstock – slight growth in the 90s … dip in the 00’s
(and, yes, flat when compared to the top percentiles … as we’ve discussed here on many occasions)
so tell me again, how “great” the middle class had it ???
Jefferson
July 21st, 2011
1:21 pm
In the end, because they fail to accomplish what they promise the GOP has no credibility, blame whoever you want but they are not effective legislators.
WOODSTOCK MIKE
July 21st, 2011
1:21 pm
“so tell me again, how “great” the middle class had it ???”
Never said the middle class was doing great, listen, your chart shows very clearly that whether there is a Democrat or Republican in office there is very little difference in middle class wages since 1965, so let’s move on to the next reason why a Democrat is so much better for middle class America?
vamp
July 21st, 2011
1:22 pm
Amen, Brother Redneck. Your posts make my day. I could listen to your wisdom all day long. God Bless.
Capt. Orange - "Will Tan For Food (Or Bribes)"
July 21st, 2011
1:22 pm
Also MR and Janus, (which you told me it was o.k. for me to call you that), my point is that you two have never once said ONE WORD against your republican governor about your STATE’s unemployment numbers! The STATE is ran by your govenor not Obama. Yet you continually blame him for all the ills that your state is responsible for.
Why?
josef
July 21st, 2011
1:22 pm
vamp
I bet you like Stepin Fetchitt, too…
WOODSTOCK MIKE
July 21st, 2011
1:23 pm
“because they fail to accomplish what they promise”
And is Obama held to this same standard? Has he accomplished what he promised?
WOODSTOCK MIKE
July 21st, 2011
1:24 pm
“The STATE is ran by your govenor not Obama. Yet you continually blame him for all the ills that your state is responsible for.”
Funny when a Republican is in office the above doesn’t apply?
Mighty Righty
July 21st, 2011
1:24 pm
USinUK
July 21st, 2011
1:17 pm
I referenced the 12:59 to which I was referring.
Thulsa Doom
July 21st, 2011
1:26 pm
Capt. Orange,
Perhaps you are lacking in the understanding of percentages. It doesn’t matter if CA has a significantly larger population than Utah or Neb. That is irrelevant when talking about the unemployment rate.
If you think California’s unemployment rate is on par with Texas then you need to have your head examined. That is laughable. I’m about to fall out of my chair I’m laughing so hard. Texas is 8 or 8.1%. I’ll look up California’s just to help you out a bit and get back to you.
You’re a funny guy. Next you’re probably going to deny that the general trend according to the latest census is that the red states are gaining in populations and in congressional seats via reapportionment while the blue states are in general losing both populations and seating to the red states. People vote with their feet sir.
Georgia has had a Republican governor for 10 years. Then you will gladly give them credit for the good times as well as the bad times right? Or is that asking too much of you?
1811/0311
July 21st, 2011
1:27 pm
HEY JAY ……………. WHERE’S YOUR CHART ???
HEADLINE: “DEM POLL: OBAMA WOULD LOSE TODAY”
HEADLINE: “OBAMA LEGACY MAY BE WITHERING AMERICAN DREAM…”
Truth
July 21st, 2011
1:27 pm
carlosgvv
July 21st, 2011
8:47 am
“…You would be amazed at how many “good Christians” woudl stand over these men and deny them the right to decide to end their suffering. They would not hesitate to impose their beliefs on them in the name of their “God of love”. Tea Party people in Congress have this kind of mentality, which explains this strange, crazy mess we now have in Washington..”
Oh really? Since you have just crawled out from under a rock; there’s been quite a “mess” in Washington BEFORE any Tea Party people arrived. Not a smart one, are ya?
USinUK
July 21st, 2011
1:30 pm
Mighty Righty – then why on earth would I blame W? I don’t mind you accusing me of bias – I am biased – but, at least be logical.
Mike – FWIW (and this is just my opinion, so it and $1.50 will get you a cup of coffee), I think it’s because the Dems try to implement programs to help the middle class with the things that affect their lives (health care as a big for instance), whereas all the GOP wants to do is cut taxes and let the chips fall where they may.
Thulsa Doom
July 21st, 2011
1:31 pm
Capt. Orange,
I’m sorry but I was mistaken on California’s unemployment rate. It is not 10% as I thought. It is significantly different. Texas is at 8.1%
USinUK
July 21st, 2011
1:31 pm
and, with that, I’m a-heading home …
night all!
Capt. Orange - "Will Tan For Food (Or Bribes)"
July 21st, 2011
1:32 pm
Janus: . Just as I acknowledge the debt W ran up are you willing to likewise acknowledge that Obama and the Dem controlled house and senate his first 2 years has run up significantly more debt on a year by year basis than W ever had? Something tells me you won’t .
Dude it’s like Groundhog Day around here, I’ve started just keeping links around since I have to use them over and over and over to discount some of the right wing punditry! OK here we go again – Obama used the second half of the Bush Bailout Package (originally voted for in Nov. 2008); to bail out the Wall Street and the Banks, (DEBT). This “debt” was part of the original package that was approved by both the Dems and the Repubs under Bush — Obama just wanted the second half immediately to continue the progress made. Obama (unlike Bush) put the two wars on the books (DEBT).
There. Satisfied?
Mighty Righty
July 21st, 2011
1:33 pm
Capt. Orange – “Will Tan For Food (Or Bribes)”
July 21st, 2011
1:22 pm
Our governor has held office since January of THIS year. I don’t know if he has done a good or poor job. I know this, he hasn’t been bragging about how he has turned the economy around at a cost $286,000 per fictitious job and three trillion dollars. He is not asking for even more money as our illustrious president is. I don’t think he has been on vacation yet compared to……..Ha,Ha, excuse me our part time non leader.
Jefferson
July 21st, 2011
1:36 pm
WM – Sure you can, change the subject if want.
Thulsa Doom
July 21st, 2011
1:38 pm
Captain Orange,
I have my own theory as to why Georgia has such high unemployment rates. It does have something to do with Dems, our education levels in general, demographics. Too much to go into but we can just go ahead and blame the governor if you want. That’s cool and doesn’t bother me one iota.
Capt. Orange - "Will Tan For Food (Or Bribes)"
July 21st, 2011
1:39 pm
Janus: Perhaps you are lacking in the understanding of percentages. It doesn’t matter if CA has a significantly larger population than Utah or Neb. That is irrelevant when talking about the unemployment rate.
Oh D-Word please. Can that superior attitude and start using the brains that god gave you for something other than repeating Rush’s talking points. Lacking an understanidng of percentages? HA! 5% of 100 is 5. 5% of 100,000 is 5,000. Now tell me again how a “larger population is irrelevant”.
Laura
July 21st, 2011
1:41 pm
Hospitals and doctors stop getting paid when you kill your self, and churches, too. They do not deserve your trust. This is why all of those organizations don’t want you to have the ultimate freedom, which is to use that ‘final exit ramp’ when the time is right. Its the same reason the Cancer Society, et al does not really want to find a cure, because a cure would mean the end of their paycheck. There is more money to be made treating the symptoms of whatever ails you, than finding a cure.
Bruno
July 21st, 2011
1:44 pm
Jay–Well written piece and a subject worthy of discussion. I’m short on time, as usual, so will try to put my two cents in later.
In the meantime, for my Brother AmVet:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GZZldMkpkU
Thulsa Doom
July 21st, 2011
1:47 pm
Captain Orange,
Why does it matter if California is a larger state. As you yourself pointed out the unemployment rate is a % of people unemployed. If CA has say 20 million people and Utah and Nebraska have say a combined population of 5 million then what does it matter if its 20 million or 5 million when you are looking at percentages.
WOODSTOCK MIKE
July 21st, 2011
1:47 pm
” Its the same reason the Cancer Society, et al does not really want to find a cure, because a cure would mean the end of their paycheck”
Wow, this is one sorry way to look at things and certainly can’t be backed up with any evidence whatsoever. So, all doctors that handle cancer research are in on one big conspiracy to make more money. This isn’t only in the US, all doctors across the globe in on one big conspiracy. What a sad mentality to actually believe something this rediculous.
Capt. Orange - "Will Tan For Food (Or Bribes)"
July 21st, 2011
1:48 pm
MR: Our governor has held office since January of THIS year. I don’t know if he has done a good or poor job.
Since I don’t know what state you live in — ok — I’ll take your word for it. However, my next question would be “And?”
I know this, he hasn’t been bragging about how he has turned the economy around at a cost $286,000 per fictitious job and three trillion dollars. He is not asking for even more money as our illustrious president is. I don’t think he has been on vacation yet compared to……..Ha,Ha, excuse me our part time non leader.
Again, I’ll ask “And?”…………………..
He’s a governor of ONE STATE not the President of 50. His concerns should only be for his state, not the ones surrounding him. Your govenor’s priorities are slightly different from the president’s, HOWEVER your governor is the one responsible for the job growth in your state, NOT the president. If you have a problem with job growth, look to the source not to a scapegoat.
Doom: I have my own theory as to why Georgia has such high unemployment rates. It does have something to do with Dems, our education levels in general, demographics.
You’re blaming the Dems AND education? Too funny!! Republicans have completely ran this state for 10 yeas now, they’ve butchered, hatcheted, and cut education down to the the barest bones possible, and yet, it is somehow the DEM’s fault? Haa!
Too much to go into but we can just go ahead and blame the governor if you want.
Who else can be blamed? SonnyDo wanted to spend MILLIONS on the “Go Fish” project, at the same time he was gutting the education funds. You want good schools? Well PAY YOUR TEACHERS good salaries! Calling them names, blaming them for taking lemons and trying to make lemonade is not the answer. Working with them and trying to HELP them is.
josef
July 21st, 2011
1:50 pm
LAURA
Well, if that’s the way you feel and the way you see things, you might be happier if you did take the next exit.
Bosch
July 21st, 2011
1:52 pm
” There is more money to be made treating the symptoms of whatever ails you, than finding a cure”
I actually agree with that and it bothers me to think I’ve become so cynical about things. However, I will add one iota (I saw that word earlier and realized how much I liked that word and hadn’t used it in a while) of a defense — as with most anything there are those who would abuse the system if we were to allow just straight up suicide — I am reminded of a poster here a few days ago lamenting over an inheritance that disappeared because the old cooter of a grandfather didn’t have enough cajones to just die! He took too long!!! I know from personal experience there is unfortunately that element in most cases of terminal illness as well.
Thulsa Doom
July 21st, 2011
1:54 pm
Consequently I do owe Captain Orange an apology on a bogus stat that I posted where I was going off the top of my head. You see I thought Texas had an unemployment rate of 8% and that California was around 10% and I was dead wrong about California.
You see Captain Orange stated that California’s unemployment rate was “on par” with Texas unemployment rate which I thought was the single most ludicrous statement of the day. I mean I thought that was really just dumb, dumb, dumb.
In any event I googled Cali’s unemployment rate and the latest data available had Cali at 11.7% for the month of May. So my 10% guess was demonstrabley incorrect and Cali’s unemployment rate was dramatically higher than even I thought.
But Captain Orange’s statement that Cali’s unemployment rate of 11.7% is on par with Texas at 8.1% definitely, unequivocally, and without a doubt stands as the most ignorant post of the day, possibly the week in fact. Captain Orange with your profound display of awe in the arena of ignorance I hereby dedicate and bestow the title of Captain Orignorance upon thee.
You are dumber than my box of rocks.
josef
July 21st, 2011
1:58 pm
BOSCH, LAURA
And does this apply to the medical personnel in your own families…? I can assure you, they DO care and it does weigh heavily on them. They are not soulless creatures without human emotions.
Oh, yeah, Bosch…
” There is more money to be made treating the symptoms of whatever ails you, than finding a cure”
Sounds like the Department of Education, don’t it!
And shut up…
WOODSTOCK MIKE
July 21st, 2011
1:59 pm
“I know from personal experience there is unfortunately that element in most cases of terminal illness as well.”
Yup, I have been through this as well, my grandmother had severe dementia for the last 5 or so years of her life, because she had about 250K in the bank she didn’t qualify for any govt assistance, so basically over that period of time the money was used, no inheritance left for her children, everything gone and she didn’t even know it was happening.
Bosch
July 21st, 2011
2:01 pm
josef,
To be honest, my sister the nurse, because of her profession is much more of a soulless creature without human emotion. There is some in there, but not near as much as me and my other sister. She gets pissed if we call her and ask for advice if we or my kids are sick.
Like I wrote earlier, it does bother me that I’ve become so cynical as to believe that, but I do. I believe there are wonderful doctors, nurses, priests, whatever, but as to the general picture, I do think what Laura wrote is pretty accurate.
So…..YOU shut up!
Bosch
July 21st, 2011
2:02 pm
And josef,
I do see your Dept. of Ed point!
Thulsa Doom
July 21st, 2011
2:02 pm
Captain Orignorance aka ebbie done wrong is sure working herself into a lather, or is that blather in her case? She got so excited she is sayingrs. I was calling teachers names even though I clearly did not. In fact I said nothing about teachers. Yes. It is clearly the Repub governors fault that the APS and Clayton county boards are run by a bunch of nuts. Just curious but I wonder what the political makeup is of the folks who run the Clayton and APS school boards? Hmmm. I think the captain of ignorance is about to blow herself a fuse with that one.
Capt. Orange - "Will Tan For Food (Or Bribes)"
July 21st, 2011
2:04 pm
There you go again Doomed — I always know when someone has you on the “ropes” when you start denigrating and sneering like an old maid at a wedding! (60 year old Old Maid- “When I get married, I’d nevah use those colors in my bouquet!”). You can’t refute the basic logic of my post, so you take one segment, blow it up way out of proportion, then condemn it with nauseating commentary. In essence you can’t win so you sneer — how very school girlish of you!
Doom it’s good to see that some things don’t change — your lack of common sense and courtesy is one thing that will remain the same forever. Oh wait…….I forgot to add your bigotry, misogyny, homophobia, and erectile dysfunction too. Good to know some things never change!!
Bosch
July 21st, 2011
2:04 pm
“so basically over that period of time the money was used, no inheritance left for her children, everything gone and she didn’t even know it was happening”
Woodstock Mike,
That is what that money is for. It really disturbs me when descendents look at money a relative has and think of it as their “inheritance” or their money.
poison pen
July 21st, 2011
2:05 pm
Thulsa, I would say that he stretches the truth a little, snicker, snicker.
Stooge Theory
July 21st, 2011
2:06 pm
Look, it’s not a contest. Ignorance has been bestowed equally upon us all with no one to blame for our par ignorance, (other than our parents)….. because their own parents did what they thought was best at the time, it being the depression, or the sixties, or the debut of the first Kiss album and all.
As we do the best we can to our own young ones. But it don’t help calling each other what’s so obvious.
josef
July 21st, 2011
2:08 pm
BOSCH
I understand how you may see her as soulless and I don’t know her or her character as a person. However, do you know what comes out in the “pillow talk” when that guard can, and is, let down and the soul bared? I do.
And, glad you see the point on the Dept. of Ed…that’s really what I was trying, not so artfully, to say yesterday.
So, you shut up…
But not before you tell me, how’s the new bidness going? Loved that thing the other day about “stamping” everything in sight…
Stooge Theory
July 21st, 2011
2:09 pm
I’d like to see a postulate. An original proposal about the state of our nation as it gets hopelessly entangled with the world.
You were saying………
WOODSTOCK MIKE
July 21st, 2011
2:10 pm
“That is what that money is for. It really disturbs me when descendents look at money a relative has and think of it as their “inheritance” or their money.”
It really disturbs me when someone interprets something wrong and makes a dumb statement. My point was with modern medicine able to keep people alive that shouldn’t be all it does is drain their assets. If you don’t think that family members know and think about an inheritance what planet are you from? I’m not implying that family wanted her to die so they could get paid, what the point was is many people save their money over a lifetime to leave for their children and for it to be wiped out unknowingly is tragic. Get it?
josef
July 21st, 2011
2:10 pm
THULSA, ORANGE
Ooooohhh, good, b*tch fight! Takes our minds off the final curtain!
Mighty Righty
July 21st, 2011
2:12 pm
Capt. Orange – “Will Tan For Food (Or Bribes)”
July 21st, 2011
1:48 pm
He’s a governor of ONE STATE not the President of 50. His concerns should only be for his state, not the ones surrounding him. Your govenor’s priorities are slightly different from the president’s, HOWEVER your governor is the one responsible for the job growth in your state, NOT the president. If you have a problem with job growth, look to the source not to a scapegoat.
I live in Georgia.
If the president is not responsible for job growth why does he spend so much time taking credit for job growth? He spent trillions trying to cut into the unemployment numbers and brags about it. I see how you want it to work. When Bush was president, you blamed him for unemployment but now that the Bush presidency was so much better than Obama on job growth, you say the president doesn’t control job growth. There is no limit to the lengths you will go to try to make Obama look good. The numbers don’t lie. Unemployment 9.2%, and 1.7 million per month losing their jobs. Gasoline prices at near alltime high rate. Food prices up. Three wars. Three trillion in budget deficits. World wide prestige at all time low. All this bad news in less than three years. Excuses won’t cut it. Obama is the president, he is in charge, it is his economy per Debbie Wasserman Shults, Dem. Florida.
Bosch
July 21st, 2011
2:14 pm
Woodstock Mike,
“My point was with modern medicine able to keep people alive that shouldn’t be all it does is drain their assets.”
And if we had a single payer system, that would never be an issue.
Point is, that was HER money, not her descendents. And if you are so concerned about families receiving their inheritance, then I would expect you to be all over the single payer system.
Stooge Theory
July 21st, 2011
2:14 pm
I love the way Josef politely commands Laura to commit suicide. He is a righteous christian god, who must slay those who stand as contrarians opposed to his self-reinforced supply of his own perpetual-motion morality code.
Bosch
July 21st, 2011
2:16 pm
josef,
The new business is going well — hitting a few snafus, but nothing I can’t handle. You should see my desk, my “seal” is everywhere. I did worry myself the other day looking at the pups ears thinking, “I wonder if they are thin enough to slide into the stamp opening.” I scared myself and woke up from my mania.
Mighty Righty
July 21st, 2011
2:16 pm
Gotta Go
Thulsa Doom
July 21st, 2011
2:22 pm
Captain Ignorance aka debbie done wrong,
You had me on the ropes? It must have been when you nailed me with that statment that Cali’s 11.7% unemployment rate was on par with Texas 8.1% unemployment rate that put me on the ropes. So much for that bit you said about me making up stats. Seems you were the one making stuff up on the fly as evidenced by the real stats. Its ok. You now stand corrected.
denigrating and sneering? And um. Who started the denigrating and sneering? Yup. Go back and looke it up to see who started that. I don’t start it. I just finish it like I’m finishing you off for lunch.
My lack of common sense and courtesy? This from the person who started off first with the name calling and petty insults? Kettle meet pot please!
Your forgot to add my bigotry, misoginy, homophobia, and erectile dysfunction. Sheesh your my urologist too? My misogyny? Are you confusing me with a rap star? Bigotry? Yep. You’ve definitely confused me with Jessie Hymietown Jackson or Louie “white devils” Farrakhan. Homophobia? Boy you got all of your own brand of stereotyping and pre-conceived, pre judging, and namecalling covered today. Well almost. You might have wanted to throw in xenophobia just for good measure. Just look it up in the dictionary first and then you can use it next time. Until then TOOODLES!
ricardus
July 21st, 2011
2:24 pm
Check the Scriptures. The answer is there. All answers are there.
Thulsa Doom
July 21st, 2011
2:25 pm
josef,
After the show you and Bosch gave us yesterday I figured it was ya’lls turn to get some popcorn and watch a show.
Capt. Orange - "Will Tan For Food (Or Bribes)"
July 21st, 2011
2:26 pm
MR: I live in Georgia.
Which has had a republican Governor for the past 10 years.
If the president is not responsible for job growth why does he spend so much time taking credit for job growth?
Off the top of my head I’ll say it’s because people, like you, blame him for when the job growth is down. He, the president, can not create jobs, he can have an environement that helps jobs to foster, but he can’t create jobs.
He spent trillions trying to cut into the unemployment numbers
Prove please.
and brags about it. I see how you want it to work. When Bush was president, you blamed him for unemployment
Again, proof please. Please show me a post, comment, etc. where I blamed Bsuh for unemployment. I’ll wait.
There is no limit to the lengths you will go to try to make Obama look good. The numbers don’t lie. Unemployment 9.2%, and 1.7 million per month losing their jobs.
Some of those jobs were lost because tea pee’s were screaming about “massive government” so those people who held government jobs were laid off — I thought you guys would be happy. Some jobs are lost at the state level, (like fire, police, etc.); because the state can’t aford to keep those people employed. However, again, that’s a STATE problem — not the government.
Gasoline prices at near alltime high rate.
Obama doesn’t run OPEC or Exxon — as a matter of fact when he made BP pay for that oil spill, a lot of repubs were angry and crying foul over that! Man, the guy can’t win for loosing huh?
Food prices up. Three wars.
Two wars — both of which were under Bush — did you complain then?
Obama is the president, he is in charge, it is his economy per Debbie Wasserman Shults, Dem. Florida.
OK so when Obama authorized the Navy Seals to take out Bin Laden, why then was it a “Seals” directive and not an Obama directive since he’s the one in charge? If Obama suddenly gave each American $1.5M; two cars, a chicken in every pot, AND paid off their mortgages; I think you’d still complain.
Just saying…………….
josef
July 21st, 2011
2:26 pm
Stooge
There was no command form of the verb in that post. I am not a Christian. I just found it a rather bleak assessment of life. I also took a certain umbrage at the assessment of the medical profession. It was she who went to passing judgment, not I.
Thulsa Doom
July 21st, 2011
2:28 pm
poison pen,
She’s always good for some fun. At least she didn’t threaten me with the brother’s shooting me with tec-9s like she did last time. Classy gal she is.
1811/0311
July 21st, 2011
2:29 pm
Good grief ! Look at this photo of Mussolini ………. I mean “El Jefe” !
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/
josef
July 21st, 2011
2:30 pm
Thulsa
Not to speak for Bosch here, but it does look like we may have reached a certain point of agreement. Scarey, isn’t it!
josef
July 21st, 2011
2:31 pm
BOSCH
Hope you can get by the snafus with a minimum of frustration and can “keep the glow on!”
DawgDad
July 21st, 2011
2:32 pm
“Some of those jobs were lost because tea pee’s were screaming about “massive government” so those people who held government jobs were laid off ”
Didn’t want this gem to stay buried in your long post.
1811/0311
July 21st, 2011
2:32 pm
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.presentationsunplugged.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/mussolini.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.presentationsunplugged.com/blog/%3Fp%3D5422&h=374&w=267&sz=13&tbnid=YR_BGM2XebcVJM:&tbnh=90&tbnw=64&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dmussolini%2Bphotos%26tbm%3Disch%26tbo%3Du&zoom=1&q=mussolini+photos&hl=en&usg=__-v1d5dJn5FBGfsC-HUEe1y0fRxc=&sa=X&ei=SXAoToG3LuTd0QHW76X1Cg&sqi=2&ved =0CCYQ9QEwBA
Bosch
July 21st, 2011
2:32 pm
josef,
Operative word being “certain” — I still think that even if the Dept. of Education were eliminated, the tasks they do would just go to some other dept.
AmVet
July 21st, 2011
2:35 pm
How nice.
I check in and find that an “arch conservative” leaves me (an arch liberal?) a link to one of my very favorite songs ever.
That Bruno is one helluva good guy and one helluva rocker. And one of the best on-line pals a guy could have.
Back at ya, brother B…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPLi0dq0tOk
Stooge Theory
July 21st, 2011
2:35 pm
Bookman wrote from his own personal experience about the value of living. He effectively contemplated the fragile nature of our existence as human beings and the effect our demise has upon others. But there are his detractors: Josef so easily wishes the demise of anyone who dare oppose his own well-formed views, and as he profusely illustrates the many different methods by which his own supremacy can thus be ensured, (complete with the perfect cheer), I would suggest that Josef not experience the end of his own life, but rather that he coordinate his own precious presence with the natural old-age destiny of any relative in his own decaying orbit. Witness a relative’s death, sir. Be there for that person. Then, sir, and only then, sir, you should try to command the vengence of your own god against those who would dare venture a opposition to your so well-formed righteous dedications.
Your soul. Your choice, Josef of the many-colored moral cloaks.
jklol
Capt. Orange - "Will Tan For Food (Or Bribes)"
July 21st, 2011
2:36 pm
Doomed Janus: denigrating and sneering? And um. Who started the denigrating and sneering? Yup. Go back and looke it up to see who started that. I don’t start it. I just finish it like I’m finishing you off for lunch.
Doom anytime you wanna eat me let me know — I’ll make sure I don’t bathe for a month, just to make it interesting.
Your forgot to add my bigotry, misoginy, homophobia, and erectile dysfunction. Sheesh your my urologist too?
Nope — your name is on every bathroom wall from here to Athens. It seems you’re having a hard time with Mr. Happy……….don’t worry — I hear Viagara works wonders.
My misogyny? Are you confusing me with a rap star?
Nope rap stars are rich – you are poor. No confusion.
Bigotry? Yep. You’ve definitely confused me with Jessie Hymietown Jackson or Louie “white devils” Farrakhan.
Well, I guess I should’ve called you a racist — but that’s so over used and blase these days.
Homophobia? Boy you got all of your own brand of stereotyping and pre-conceived, pre judging, and namecalling covered today. Well almost. You might have wanted to throw in xenophobia just for good measure. Just look it up in the dictionary first and then you can use it next time. Until then TOOODLES!
Homophobia, arachnophobia, sexophobia, toilet-training-ophobia, cantgetitupophobia, you name, you got it. Sorry — help is only a 1-900 number away. You have friends, (that are usually paid for), in your times of need.
Thulsa Doom
July 21st, 2011
2:37 pm
josef,
I believe Bosch @ 2:32 may have just picked it up all over again. Lemme go git my popcorn.
1811,
I thought Mussolini was Il Duce or douche. Not el jefe.
josef
July 21st, 2011
2:37 pm
BOSCH
And I agree they would go there, and I think, just my opinion, increasingly limited resources could be more effectively husbanded doing that…