Herman Cain: Americans have right to ban mosques
Herman Cain, supposed defender of the U.S. Constitution, told Fox News this morning that American communities have the right to ban mosques.
Like I said Friday, Cain has proved himself to be no better than a David Duke or a Lester Maddox. His campaign was never going anywhere and had already peaked. Now he’s in the process of throwing away whatever reputation his brief moment in the sunshine might have brought him.
UPDATE: It should be noted that at least some conservatives understand the issues at stake here and understand the dangers and repugnance of what Cain has said.
At RedState, a poster by the name of T Christopher, apparently a once-fervent Cain supporter, writes, among other things:
“I know the Cain defenders will be out in full force and I’m sure my previous support for Mr. Cain will be washed away with the fact that I am so absolutely appalled by his Sunday remarks. I’m also very aware that sites like HuffPo and ThinkProgress will probably be the only places where I will find anyone who agrees with me; or at least will be willing to share their views. I get that; and I’m fine with that. Bring on the RINO assaults.
Despite that, I share this story and my thoughts with you without reservation, because last I checked it was among the many causes of conservatism to defend religion from all who would aim to do it harm; to uphold the Constitution and defend the First Amendment. Did I miss something? Did someone float around a memo addressing the change in our ideology and leave me off the distribution list?
Is Islam not a religion? If a “community” can tell a group of Muslims that they cannot construct a mosque, could another community not deny a group of Catholics the opportunity to construct a church? Could a community of atheists not deny all individuals the right to construct any places of worship?
… I am sincerely disappointed that Mr. Cain has decided to take his campaign in this direction. He has not only lost my support, he has now, regrettably, also lost my respect.”
Good for him.
– Jay Bookman
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541 comments Add your comment
0311/0317 - 1811/1801
July 17th, 2011
6:10 pm
Sorry but you lib., prog., lock-nuts asked for it. You too Jay:
All religions are not equal ………….. unless sacrificing children to the crocadile god in Uganda (yep – the police there say it’s still goes on) piques your interest.
Oh, by the way ………… that’s why penecostal “snake handling” services are illegal in 49 of the 50 states (Tennessee excepted) ……………. and the Surpeme Court has upheld that. As I said, all religions are not equal ……….. even in the good old USA.
1) Winston Churchill on Islam:
“How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy. The effects are apparent in many countries. Improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live.
A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement; the next of its dignity and sanctity. The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property, either as a child, a wife, or a concubine, must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men.
INDIVIDUAL MOSLEMS MAY SHOW SPLENDID QUALITIES (emphasis added), but the influence of the religion paralyzes the social development of those who follow it.
No stronger retrograde force exists in the world. Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytizing faith. It has already spread throughout Central Africa, raising fearless warriors at every step; and were it not that Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms of science, the science against which it had vainly struggled, the civilization of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilization of ancient Rome.”
2) John Quincy Adams on Islam:
“In the seventh century of the Christian era, a wandering Arab of the lineage of Hagar [i.e., Muhammad], the Egyptian, combining the powers of transcendent genius, with the preternatural energy of a fanatic, and the fraudulent spirit of an impostor, proclaimed himself as a messenger from Heaven, and spread desolation and delusion over an extensive portion of the earth. Adopting from the sublime conception of the Mosaic law, the doctrine of one omnipotent God; he connected indissolubly with it, the audacious falsehood, that he was himself his prophet and apostle.
Adopting from the new Revelation of Jesus, the faith and hope of immortal life, and of future retribution, he humbled it to the dust by adapting all the rewards and sanctions of his religion to the gratification of the sexual passion. He poisoned the sources of human felicity at the fountain, by degrading the condition of the female sex, and the allowance of polygamy; and he declared undistinguishing and exterminating war, as a part of his religion, against all the rest of mankind. THE ESSENCE OF HIS DOCTRINE WAS VIOLENCE AND LUST: TO EXALT THE BRUTAL OVER THE SPIRITUAL PART OF HUMAN NATURE (Adam’s capital letters).
Between these two religions, thus contrasted in their characters, a war of twelve hundred years has already raged. The war is yet flagrant…While the merciless and dissolute dogmas of the false prophet shall furnish motives to human action, there can never be peace upon earth, and good will towards men.”
SayWhat
July 17th, 2011
6:10 pm
I wholeheartedly agree with Herman Cain on this and most issues. He’s the first candidated who has made any sense for years. I know all the libs will blast this post, but don’t care.
fowzia
July 17th, 2011
6:10 pm
Mr.Cain ,you cannot have it both ways you are either for freedom of religion or not, I am American citizen just like you,unlike you I am a Muslim,and should have the freedom to worship and built a Mosque any where in the U.S.A.You are an idiot,idiot,idiot,and never will be elected any office.People who always talk about the Constitution are the least tolerant when it comes to Islam,We are not going anywhere Mr.Cain.
SayWhat
July 17th, 2011
6:12 pm
…oops, “candidate”
theyeshaveit
July 17th, 2011
6:12 pm
It doesn’t matter matter what you look like. And maybe it doesn’t matter what you think. But it you want to be part of that menagerie that comprises the GOP candidates for president, it does matter what you say. It matters what you say, because if you think that Bachmann, Cain, Newt, Palin, et al are as stable as the Tower of Pisa, take a look at the folks who are supporting them. It’s like the zoo animals throwing peanuts to the passersby. I suspect that Cain is saying what he is saying not because he believes every word that rolls off his tongue, or is racist or anti-muslim, or whatever, but because he believes that is the only way he is going to get nominated. But it matters not. The only GOP candidate that even comes close to Obama is one of the saner ones – Romney. And he is going to find it harder to get nominated than elected.
Doggone/GA
July 17th, 2011
6:14 pm
“I am a Muslim,and should have the freedom to worship and built a Mosque any where in the U.S.A”
No, not ANYwhere. Anywhere that it does not violate the local zoning laws.
Jay
July 17th, 2011
6:15 pm
I see where Rebekah Brooks of News Corp. has been arrested.
josef
July 17th, 2011
6:15 pm
fowzia
Just follow the example of the Jews. This is what they said about us back last century and didn’t want us building synagogues (at least in some parts of the country), and in a hundred years we can have a Muslim in here like dre, bashing away at whatever group it is “posing a threat to the American way of life…” Is this a great country, or what!
theyeshaveit
July 17th, 2011
6:15 pm
Me on Scout:
Scout on Islam – they’re all terrorists.
Scout on religion – God only loves us Christians.
Scout on gays – God hates them more than I do.
Scout on Those People – You know deep down that they are all racists.
That about sums it up.
getalife
July 17th, 2011
6:15 pm
fowzia,
Well said.
Jay
July 17th, 2011
6:16 pm
Eyes:
Lather, rinse, repeat.
josef
July 17th, 2011
6:17 pm
JAY
What did they charge her with?
Buck Hayek
July 17th, 2011
6:19 pm
Islam is a very conservative religion.
Its rooted in the past (Abrahamic), traditional, anti-science, anti-liberal, very patriarchal, and wishes to convert others.
Much like our Fundie Christians. In fact, just like them.
Maybe they don’t want the competition for small minds.
Southern Comfort
July 17th, 2011
6:19 pm
Jay
You’re late on that arrest… The chief of Scotland Yard is resigning too!!
0311/0317 - 1811/1801
July 17th, 2011
6:20 pm
Eyes:
You know I call ‘em like I see ‘em but none of what you just posted is anything I said.
You know better.
I enjoy honest debate but not if you’re going to be like that.
Scout on Islam – they’re all terrorists. (Not even close and certainly not my Terminix man ……
)
Scout on religion – God only loves us Christians. (Then why did he die for Muslims?)
Scout on gays – God hates them more than I do. (God hates all sin …… He die for sinners)
Scout on Those People – You know deep down that they are all racists. (Not unless they believe in genetic superiority)
Next ………………………….
getalife
July 17th, 2011
6:21 pm
The London police chief quit too.
They tried to cover it up.
Del said it was no big deal.
Doggone/GA
July 17th, 2011
6:21 pm
“You’re late on that arrest”
Not so very late though, as late as 3:00 pm they were still only saying that they arrested a 43 year old woman, but wouldn’t identify her.
Jay
July 17th, 2011
6:21 pm
Josef:
From the Metropolitan Police:
“At approximately 12pm a 43-year-old woman was arrested by appointment at a London police station by officers from Operation Weeting together with officers from Operation Elveden. She is currently in custody. She was arrested on suspicion of conspiring to intercept communications, contrary to Section 1 of the Criminal Law Act 1977 and on suspicion of corruption allegations contrary to Section 1 of the Prevention of Corruption Act 1906.”
The “corruption allegations” are bribing police officers.
waterstim
July 17th, 2011
6:22 pm
Jay and the rest of the lib clowns: Islam is NOT a religion. It’s a political movement. Wouldn’t you just love to see Jay’s wife or Sean Penn’s wife forced to wear head to toe black garb? What a bunch of idiots you MSNBC lovers are!
dre
July 17th, 2011
6:22 pm
Kamchak, Stay out of the debate if you’re going to pointlessly put words in people’s mouths. Josef, no need to read about someone from 2k years ago. Just look around you right now. Teaching Gay History? The growing acceptance of hateful Islam?
0311/0317 - 1811/1801
July 17th, 2011
6:22 pm
Jay:
If you turn off the water in between it’s called a “Navy shower”.
theyeshaveit
July 17th, 2011
6:23 pm
josef,
There is a boulevard not so far from my neighborhood that features five different burger joints including Dusty’s favorite and one that gave me food poisoning. It’s junk food row. Someone mentioned zoning. Perhaps, we should move toward having all religious establishments zoned into one area of town just for them. It won’t matter what religion, just have them stay out of the residential areas. We’ll have a synagogue, churches of various denominations, a mosque and others that would all snuggle together on House of Worship Row.
Doggone/GA
July 17th, 2011
6:24 pm
“Jay and the rest of the lib clowns: Islam is NOT a religion. It’s a political movement”
and what Cain said is not a religion either. It’s a political movement.
Chappy
July 17th, 2011
6:24 pm
The homosexual community just passed a law successfully to ban allowinng Jews to
circumcise their boys.
Yes, it is possible for a community to forbid the free practice of religion in this country.
You just have to be part of a community supported by the biased media.
It should be obvious that I do not support such a thing. Freedom, not politically correct, regardless if people disagree with you.
Southern Comfort
July 17th, 2011
6:24 pm
Islam is NOT a religion. It’s a political movement.
Damn Scout, you’re amongst friends tonight!!!!!
Doggone
Soon as the UK media started suggesting who it was, I was only going on past performance. I figured somebody had already tapped into video feeds in the police station.
dre
July 17th, 2011
6:26 pm
conservative
0311/0317 - 1811/1801
July 17th, 2011
6:26 pm
What do you libs. think:
Should those snake handlers be allowed to have their services in Georgia?
Should Muslim women in America have to wear burkas (you know the ones with the little slits for their eyes) ?
Should Muslim women in American be forced to marry someone not of their choosing ?
Should Christian Identity followers be exempt from federal taxation as their religion teaches ?
Why do we make the Amish put those big international orange triangles on the back of their buggies ?
Oh well ………………… off to the dog park.
theyeshaveit
July 17th, 2011
6:28 pm
Scout,
Just a thought..sometimes the view of oneself is a bit more clear from the outside than it is on the inside.
Doggone/GA
July 17th, 2011
6:28 pm
“Soon as the UK media started suggesting who it was”
Yeah, well…every report I actually heard was along the lines of “Brooks has been arrested, but the police will only say a 43 year old woman was arrested”
Midori
July 17th, 2011
6:28 pm
Del said it was no big deal.
a broken clock is right more often than Del
0311/0317 - 1811/1801
July 17th, 2011
6:29 pm
One more quick one before I leave:
Why are our liberal allies in Europe being so tough on Islam?
1) France – burkas !
2) Switzerland (of all places) – No more towers on mosques !
0311/0317 - 1811/1801
July 17th, 2011
6:30 pm
Eyes:
You still didn’t refute a point I made.
I call ‘em like I see ‘em.
What’s up with our European friends? Do they know (or have the experienced) something we don’t ?
getalife
July 17th, 2011
6:31 pm
They have cons like you Scout.
theyeshaveit
July 17th, 2011
6:31 pm
Midori,
You’re not saying that Del is broken though are you?
Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)
July 17th, 2011
6:32 pm
Jay
July 17th, 2011
6:15 pm
I see where Rebekah Brooks of News Corp. has been arrested.
Well, what a dirty, rotten trick! She called the cops to see if they wanted to talk to her. They said sure, come on in. When she got there they slapped the cuffs on her and made her do the perp walk.
I mean, that’s dirtier than tapping somebody’s phone or voice mail. If this keeps up there won’t be no crook that shows up at a police station without being arrested first. And now they won’t tell the poor woman if she still needs to show up at that committee meeting Parliament’s holding Tuesday.
What worries me is, Rupert might be next. And if he gets arrested what will happen to Fox News? I don’t want to walk around plumb ignorant of what’s going on in the world or not knowing what to think about things. Not to mention he’s so old he could have a heart attack when they slap the cuffs on him. It ought to be like jury duty, if you’re 70 or older you ought to be excused from the perp walk.
Straw Man
July 17th, 2011
6:33 pm
Alright, I guess some verses from the Koran are in order here (see below). The only problem I have with this book and people who believe in it is that it contains INCITEMENTS TO VIOLENCE AGAINST “UNBELIEVERS” IN THE PRESENT IMPERATIVE VOICE (and not against some SPECIFIC individual or people at a SPECIFIC point in history). As such, such verses can be read as standing order for violence. I care NOT A WHIT that it makes derogatory statements about Jews or Christians or other unbelievers and consigns them a place in hell. I care about innocent people being murdered by suicidal Muslim extremists.
The Supreme court has ruled, in Brandenburg v. Ohio (1969), that government cannot punish inflammatory speech unless it is directed to inciting and likely to incite imminent lawless action. If violence does occur in the nation (as it does in other nations) and that violence can be shown to have been incited by the Koran, then we’ll see how protected this speech is. Read for yourselves (and is not a comprehensive list):
If the Jews practiced the Old Testament fully, then they would be required to
“Slay them wherever you find them. Drive them out of the places from which they drove you. Idolatry is worse than carnage. . . . [I]f they attack you put them to the sword. Thus shall the unbelievers be rewarded: but if they desist, God is forgiving and merciful. Fight against them until idolatry is no more and God’s religion reigns supreme. But if they desist, fight none except the evil-doers”(2:190–93).
“Fighting is obligatory for you, much as you dislike it. But you may hate a thing although it is good for you, and love a thing although it is bad for you. God knows, but you know not” (2:216).
“Believers, do not follow the example of the infidels, who say of their brothers when they meet death abroad or in battle: ‘Had they stayed with us they would not have died, nor would they have been killed.’ God will cause them to regret their words. . . . If you should die or be slain in the cause of God, God’s forgiveness and His mercy would surely be better than all the riches they amass” (3:156).
“Never think that those who were slain in the cause of God are dead. They are alive, and well provided for by their Lord; pleased with His gifts and rejoicing that those they left behind, who have not yet joined them, have nothing to fear or to regret; rejoicing in God’s grace and bounty. God will not deny the faithful their reward” (3:169).
“So those who fled and were driven forth from their homes and suffered damage for My cause, and fought and were slain, verily I shall remit their evil deeds from them and verily I shall bring them into Gardens underneath which rivers flow – A reward from Allah. And with Allah is the fairest of rewards.”
(3.195)
“You will find others who desire that they should have security from you, and security from their own folk. So often as they are returned to hostility they are plunged therein. If they keep not aloof from you nor offer you peace nor hold their hands, then take them and kill them wherever you find them. Against such We have given you clear warrant.” (4.91)
“The only reward of those who make war upon Allah and His messenger and strive after corruption in the land will be that they will be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet on alternate sides cut off, or will be expelled out of the land. Such will be their degradation in the world, and in the Hereafter theirs will be an awful doom.” (5.33)
“You see many among them making friends with unbelievers. Evil is that to which their souls prompt them. They have incurred the wrath of God and shall endure eternal torment. . . .You will find that the most implacable of men in their enmity to the faithful are the Jews and the pagans, and that the nearest in affection to them are those who say: ‘We are Christians’” (5:80–82).
“[T]heir hearts were hardened, and Satan made their deeds seem fair to them. And when they had clean forgotten Our admonition We granted them all that they desired; but just as they were rejoicing in what they were given, We suddenly smote them and they were plunged into utter despair. Thus were the evil-doers annihilated. Praise be to God, Lord of the Universe!” (6:43–45).
“Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.” (9.5)
Those who disbelieve will be forced to drink boiling water, and will face a painful doom. 6:70
Midori
July 17th, 2011
6:33 pm
Eyes – only his fainting couch.
from overuse!!
theyeshaveit
July 17th, 2011
6:33 pm
Scout,
Our Euro “friends” don’t get exercised over religion like some do here.
Doggone/GA
July 17th, 2011
6:33 pm
“One more quick one before I leave:”
There are 3 kinds of people in the world…those who can count, and those who can’t
Kamchak
July 17th, 2011
6:36 pm
dre
July 17th, 2011
6:22 pm
Kamchak, Stay out of the debate if you’re going to pointlessly put words in people’s mouths.
You seem to be laboring under the misapprehension that I somehow work for you, sport.
theyeshaveit
July 17th, 2011
6:36 pm
By the way, while I am not much of a soccer fan, that was a great game today between the USA and Japan.
josef
July 17th, 2011
6:38 pm
dre
2000 years ago? You don’t even know who he was, much less when he lived. Just as I suspected, you’re not conversant in Judaism and its teachings.
AND, BTW
Who let that Islamic extremist Fowzia up in here preaching such anti-American ideologies as equal rights under the Constitution?
JAY
Thanks. Looks like they are going for the big fish!
HAYEK
“Its rooted in the past (Abrahamic), traditional, anti-science, anti-liberal, very patriarchal, and wishes to convert others.”
Some are, some aren’t. But anti-science? Uh, chemistry, algebra, concept of zero, modern astronomy, modern system of medical inquiry…just for starters…
Does the name Ahmed Zewail ring a bell…
And, while I’m at it and doing my EOI duties…
When the Invaders went to burn the library at the University of Alabama, one of the best libraries in North America at the time, the provost begged no and was told he “could save one book.” Know which one he chose? The Koran.
Donna P.
July 17th, 2011
6:41 pm
Communities have every right to ban churches, synagogues, mosques, etc. if they want to. That was his point.
theyeshaveit
July 17th, 2011
6:41 pm
Straw Man,
Have you ever read anything from the books that did not quite make it into the bible? Try reading from Tetra Biblos sometime. It includes some fascinating stories including those of Jesus’ childhood. Beware. Jesus doesn’t come off all that well at times.
theyeshaveit
July 17th, 2011
6:43 pm
It’s checkout time for me. Bye all.
Kamchak
July 17th, 2011
6:43 pm
By the way, while I am not much of a soccer fan, that was a great game today between the USA and Japan.
The game was great.
The PKs?
Not so much.
Paulo977
July 17th, 2011
6:44 pm
midtownguy
“I will start a petition to ban, within the confines of Midtown, any religious organization that does not accept openly gay members ”
Fair’s fair!!
Straw Man
July 17th, 2011
6:44 pm
“Have you ever read anything from the books that did not quite make it into the bible?”
Some, but you of course understand that those writings are not part of the accepted “canon” and are not at all regarded as inspired. They are thus not the basis of religious practice for Christians. That is NOT the case with the Koran.
Doggone/GA
July 17th, 2011
6:47 pm
“That is NOT the case with the Koran.”
Certainly it is. With a believing population of over a billion, if you think people don’t pick and choose what they will or will not follow, as do Christians with the Bible, you ARE living in a nighmare world.
Paulo977
July 17th, 2011
6:50 pm
josef
“But anti-science? Uh, chemistry, algebra, concept of zero, modern astronomy, modern system of medical inquiry…just for starters…
Does the name Ahmed Zewail ring a bell?”
There is a whole lot we take for granted as bequeathed to us by the WEST!!!
Chief76
July 17th, 2011
6:50 pm
“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.”
Robert
July 17th, 2011
6:53 pm
This is an unfortunate example of hate makes right. Our country has been in serious trouble for the last ten years, and this is Mr. Cain and his crowd solution.
getalife
July 17th, 2011
6:55 pm
They scored all their pk’s against Brazil so I thought they might miss a couple.
Japan needed this upset to boost morale in their country.
Lets keep our Constitution and marginalize the bigots like cain.
Southern Comfort
July 17th, 2011
6:56 pm
Communities have every right to ban churches, synagogues, mosques, etc. if they want to. That was his point.
If there’s no violations of zoning laws and regulations, how can a community “ban” anything? If it’s legal within the eyes of the law, then if the community wants it banned, then don’t come crying when your freedoms are trampled for the satisfaction of people who don’t agree with you. Communities have the right to protest the building and placement, but unless laws and regulations are broken, they don’t have a leg to stand on when trying to ban something.
Ask John’s Creek about zoning laws and trying to ban something.
THE TRUTH
July 17th, 2011
6:56 pm
Like I have said before Bookman hates anything non Liberal, so he twist and flips everything to try and scare the masses, so his precious Obama might look better.
One day his little world where the libbies rule in his own little head will come crumbling down.
jack bull
July 17th, 2011
6:56 pm
he’s right though.
Straw Man
July 17th, 2011
6:56 pm
“Certainly it is.”
From the wiki:
“Islam is the monotheistic religion articulated by the Qur’an, a text considered by its adherents to be the verbatim word of God…”
I don’t worry about people who are nominal believers in Islam; I worry about the people who really believe that the Koran is the “verbatim word of God” and then, in zealous obedience to one or more of the verses I quotes, kill people. Now, if you know of any such verse in the New Testament, let me know, as I know of none. So, you see, you don’t really need to worry about Christians who pick and choose what verses they will follow.
ND
July 17th, 2011
6:57 pm
The AJC should give Redneck Convert his own blog.
Doggone/GA
July 17th, 2011
6:59 pm
” So, you see, you don’t really need to worry about Christians who pick and choose what verses they will follow.”
Yes, we do. Because the Bible is more than just the New Testament and it is those who pick and choose from the Old Testament that are dangerous.
poison pen
July 17th, 2011
7:01 pm
RW-(the original)
” I wasn’t about to let let this notion that Fox News is ignoring the News Corp story interfere with watching the race, the Braves, and the poker tournament, but I just popped over to their web site and it’s one of the lead stories. Where do you people get these crazy ideas?”
RW, When your crazy I think it comes easy.
Soothsayer
July 17th, 2011
7:01 pm
If Muslims didn’t control most of the World’s oil reserves, I would hazard a guess that 99% of Americans would have never heard of them. Not only that, but they wouldn’t be our “enemies.” Nor would they have “bombed” us. Enemies, you see, are necessary. For without them, we wouldn’t need to spend nearly 50% of every tax dollar collected on our military.
Doggone/GA
July 17th, 2011
7:02 pm
” So, you see, you don’t really need to worry about Christians who pick and choose what verses they will follow.”
Addendum: the Armageddonists are to be feared also, and THAT is from the New Testament
poison pen
July 17th, 2011
7:04 pm
Robert
” This is an unfortunate example of hate makes right. Our country has been in serious trouble for the last ten years, and this is Mr. Cain and his crowd solution.”
Robert, Please don’t judge a crowd by what one man has to say, when you do that you look dumb.
Straw Man
July 17th, 2011
7:06 pm
“If Muslims didn’t control most of the World’s oil reserves, I would hazard a guess that 99% of Americans would have never heard of them. Not only that, but they wouldn’t be our “enemies.” Nor would they have “bombed” us. Enemies, you see, are necessary. For without them, we wouldn’t need to spend nearly 50% of every tax dollar collected on our military.”
You know, I don’t disagree with at least part of your statement. If we had but acted back in 1973 (after the oil embargo) to develop alternative energy resources (as aggressively as we did the space program in the 60s), Islamic nations would not have all of the money they do now. Bin Laden may never have become the man he did – who knows?
Doggone/GA
July 17th, 2011
7:07 pm
“Robert, Please don’t judge a crowd by what one man has to say, when you do that you look dumb”
when they are “his crowd” it IS valid to criticise them too. If they don’t like what he says, GET OUT OF HIS CROWD.
John K
July 17th, 2011
7:09 pm
I love watching the Cain sheep attempt to come to his defense.
And the typical neo-con reaction, willing to give up any rights to fit today’s anti-boogeyman agenda.
Fred
July 17th, 2011
7:09 pm
Josef: From Foxnews.com
Brooks, 43, was arrested at a London police station at noon Sunday. She is being questioned on suspicion of conspiring to intercept communications — phone hacking — and on suspicion of corruption, which relates to bribing police for information.
A statement released on Brooks’ behalf said she “voluntarily attended a London police station to assist with their ongoing investigation.”
“This was a prearranged appointment,” said her spokesman, David Wilson — although he said Brooks was not aware she was going to be arrested.
Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/07/17/rupert-murdoch-takes-out-another-ad-apologizing-for-uk-phone-hacking-scandal/#ixzz1SPIJ7fne
Straw Man
July 17th, 2011
7:14 pm
“Addendum: the Armageddonists are to be feared also, and THAT is from the New Testament”
There is NO New Testament warrant for such people’s behavior – just as there wasn’t for the Crusades, the Inquisition, the Ku Klux Klan, David Koresh or any other violent group of people. All I am saying is that there is scriptural warrant from the Koran for violence. It’s funny, I posted some of these same verses on a forum populated by a lot of Muslims after 9/11 and NOT one of them disputed the point I was making – that if taken, literally, they are an incitement to violence. They only said that modern “interpretations” make the verses figurative. I post the same verses here, and people want to deflect and counter charge and make knee-jerk defenses of those verses. Now why would that be?
Kamchak
July 17th, 2011
7:15 pm
If we had but acted back in 1973 (after the oil embargo) to develop alternative energy resources (as aggressively as we did the space program in the 60s), Islamic nations would not have all of the money they do now.
Funny, that’s what Jimmy Carter said.
Of course he said it in the 70s so he didn’t use the past tense.
0311/0317 - 1811/1801
July 17th, 2011
7:16 pm
“Eyes”
“Scout,
Our Euro “friends” don’t get exercised over religion like some do here.”
I can’t believe you ! They are banning burkas and mosque towers in European countries (and more stuff on the way) and you say they “don’t get exercised over religion like some do here” ?
What planet are you on?
Can you imagine if we tried that here? Heck, we almost didn’t get away with full face on a Georgia driver’s license.
I repeat ………….. they are dealing with issues there (the loss of their culture) that we will face here down the road.
Good grief “Eyes” ……………………
Doggone/GA
July 17th, 2011
7:17 pm
“All I am saying is that there is scriptural warrant from the Koran for violence”
And how many of the billion + Muslim believers actually act out that warrant? I’d venture about as many as pick and choose the Bible to justify THEIR violence.
poison pen
July 17th, 2011
7:19 pm
Doggone/GA
“Robert, Please don’t judge a crowd by what one man has to say, when you do that you look dumb”
” when they are “his crowd” it IS valid to criticise them too. If they don’t like what he says, GET OUT OF HIS CROWD.”
Doggone, SORRY, NO IT’S NOT. That’s about the dumbest thing that you have ever said. I’m sure that a lot of his followers will leave his campaign, but to criticize them before you even know what they are going to do is rather….. you know…dumb.
josef
July 17th, 2011
7:20 pm
FRED
You can’t believe that. It was on Fox!
Doggone/GA
July 17th, 2011
7:21 pm
“I’m sure that a lot of his followers will leave his campaign, but to criticize them before you even know what they are going to do is rather….. you know…dumb”
Here’s how it works in the real world: if you support someone you are just as open to criticism of your leader’s faults as your leader is. If your leader is faulty, and you don’t like those faults, but you follow regardless – you ARE open to that criticism.
poison pen
July 17th, 2011
7:23 pm
Doggone, That’s better, the key word is, IF.. you follow that leader. With that I agree.
Dave R.
July 17th, 2011
7:24 pm
“Communities have every right to ban churches, synagogues, mosques, etc. if they want to. That was his point.”
Technically, no, it wasn’t. Cain made an interesting, if not tortured defense of his position (aided and abetted by some HuffPo editing no doubt) regarding how Islam is both a religion and law rolled into one. Certainly, it would be an interesting debate to have with him sometime when not in the throes of a Presidential campaign.
I don’t know enough about Islam to be able to take one side or the other in that regard. If true, then there could be a reason to justify voting against a mosque. For instance, if you had a family member (teenage daughter let’s say) whose father belonged to the mosque and he took Islamic law into his hands to punish that daughter for a perceived transgression. To the point where he felt justified to take her life. Yeah, we have courts that would punish him after the fact, but for her, it would be too late. I could see intervening on the side of caution to insure that sort of nonsense didn’t occur. But I’d have to see and know what they were going to preach and teach before making that decision.
Now, to the point the earlier poster was making above, yes, there are MANY ways to deny a mosque or a church a zoning application, and all are very legal. One concept in particular in this case is perspective, as in is the church, synagogue or mosque too large for the community to where it’s effects on infrastructure will be overwhelmingly negative. Traffic, water, sewer ,etc, are ALL valid reasons to deny any building, including religious-based buildings.
Based on what I know about Murfreesboro, TN, I would have had no problem at all in voting against that mosque, and doing so absolutely legally.
But that was NOT Herman Cain’s position (based on what I saw in the edited version from HuffPo).
stands for decibels
July 17th, 2011
7:25 pm
Just stray thought about the Newscorp mess–I sure am glad that the Guardian kept on top of this, all this time.
poison pen
July 17th, 2011
7:25 pm
I sure feel sorry for all the Virgins out there.
Doggone/GA
July 17th, 2011
7:26 pm
” IF.. you follow that leader. With that I agree.”
And the original criticism was of “Mr. Cain and his crowd” – so you’ve just agreed that the criticism of HIS CROWD is justified.
TheBigCat
July 17th, 2011
7:26 pm
Jay,
You do know that you, and your White liberal buddies in the Democratic Party, have done something that the KKK wasn’t able to do. You guys have destroyed the Black family in this country with your social programs, hand outs, etc. which have destroyed the Black family until.
If the KKK has a “Lifetime Achievement Award” then you guys should be given the “honor”.
Southern Comfort
July 17th, 2011
7:27 pm
Straw Man
If one billion plus Muslims all acted literally, would we even be having this conversation? Those verses you’re talking about are no different than the passages in the Christian Bible that refers to stoning and other things. If taken literally, we would have no Hollywood OR political class as they’d all be stoned for adultery.
TheBigCat
July 17th, 2011
7:29 pm
Don’t you just love how White liberals love to attack any Black that has the nerve to stray off of their Liberal Plantation? Just as predictable as the sun rising in the morning.
poison pen
July 17th, 2011
7:29 pm
Doggone, If they continue to follow him, then yes I agree, I won’t condemn them at the present time as I don’t know how many will continue to follow him.
I personally don’t think he has a snowballs chance in hell to ever be President.
Straw Man
July 17th, 2011
7:29 pm
“And how many of the billion + Muslim believers actually act out that warrant? I’d venture about as many as pick and choose the Bible to justify THEIR violence.”
If they do, they would be TWISTING the words of the Bible to their own ends, like southern Democrats used Old Testament verses (which applied to Jews and their history) and New Testament verses (which did not call for the revolutionary overthrow of slavery, but acceptance and tolerance for it if no change in one’s status was possible) did to justify slavery. But a Muslim who read one of the passages cites above would not be twisting it’s meaning (as it is quite plain).
josef
July 17th, 2011
7:30 pm
Big Cat
You may have a point, but if the GOP had left them on the Ole Plantation, they’d still be in two-parent households and not living on welfare in the projects…just ask Bachmann and Company…
Doggone/GA
July 17th, 2011
7:31 pm
“Doggone, If they continue to follow him, then yes I agree, I won’t condemn them at the present time as I don’t know how many will continue to follow him”
But the criticism is automatically of those who continue to follow him. It, by implication, does not apply to any who stop following him. As long as they follow, the criticism is justified. When they stop following it no longer applies.
poison pen
July 17th, 2011
7:31 pm
TheBigCat
” Don’t you just love how White liberals love to attack any Black that has the nerve to stray off of their Liberal Plantation? Just as predictable as the sun rising in the morning.”
Bigcat, Trust me, a lot of the people criticizing him on this blog are Black.
Dave R.
July 17th, 2011
7:32 pm
Oh, and I believe it was Thomas Jefferson who once proclaimed that he could never envision a political party or movement where he’d agree with everything they professed.
I can still be a Cain supporter, even if I don’t agree with his stance on this issue. Especially as that stance has no chance of becoming a reality even if he were to be elected President.
@@
July 17th, 2011
7:32 pm
Maybe I hear things differently. The people in the community have the right to ban Sharia Law, which is part and parcel of Islam.
Recon (2nd.and 3rd.)
July 17th, 2011
7:33 pm
Once again stuck on stupid. Cain is saying and he’s absolutely correct, Islam goes beyond being just a religious faith, it’s a governmental ideology.. It’s time for Muslims to defend their beliefs not for the hard-left to make it up for them based on their asinine political correctness.
Doggone/GA
July 17th, 2011
7:33 pm
” But a Muslim who read one of the passages cites above would not be twisting it’s meaning (as it is quite plain).”
And yet there are quite respected Muslim scholars of the Koran who say exactly what you said about the Bible: that they ARE twisting the meaning to justify their violence.
Straw Man
July 17th, 2011
7:34 pm
“Those verses you’re talking about are no different than the passages in the Christian Bible that refers to stoning and other things.”
That is in the Old Testament, the covenant with the Israelites. This covenant was, in the legal (as opposed to spiritual) sense, abolished with its fulfillment in the person of Christ. That is, I am not (nor is anyone else really) bound to follow the letter of the Old Testament law.
josef
July 17th, 2011
7:34 pm
@@
The community doesn’t need to ban Sharia law. The Constitution does a pretty thorough job of that.
Doggone/GA
July 17th, 2011
7:34 pm
“Cain is saying and he’s absolutely correct, Islam goes beyond being just a religious faith, it’s a governmental ideology”
Which, of course, explains secular countries like Turkey that are predominantly Muslim.
josef
July 17th, 2011
7:36 pm
Straw Man
@ 7:34
Speaking as a Christian, that is…
stands for decibels
July 17th, 2011
7:36 pm
by the way, that Librul Plantation meme? always classy, guys.
JohnnyReb
July 17th, 2011
7:36 pm
OFF SUBJECT – I like to watch the Leftie news and so-called entertainment shows for the same reason I visit this blog. Today I watched Bill Maher on HBO. Maher needs to be removed from the airwaves. Before any of the honorable Left jumps to Maher’s defense, I suggest you view the show that was on today. Disgusting and far, far beyond anything I have ever seen or heard from the Right. If Maher is idolized by our youth, we have bigger problems than a mosque in Tennessee.
Soothsayer
July 17th, 2011
7:39 pm
The Master’s Touch
Public Domain
It was battered and scarred
and the auctioneer thought it scarcely worth his while
to waste much time on the Old Violin but he held it up with a smile.
“What am I bid Goodfolks?” he cried. “Who’ll start the bidding for me?”
It was “a dollar… a dollar…. then two”… only two.
“Two dollars and who’ll make it three?”
“Three dollars once – Three dollars twice – And going for three”
But No!…
From the room far back,
a gray-haired man came forward and picked up the bow.
And wiping the dirt from that old violin…
and tightening the loosened strings…
You know, He played a melody pure ‘n sweet, as the carillon angels sing.
Well, the music stopped,
and the auctioneer in a voice that was quiet and low…
Said: “What am I bid for the Old Violin?” And He held it up with the bow.
“A thousand dollars! Who’ll make it two?
Two thousand! Who’ll make it Three?”
It was “three thousand once”… “three thousand twice”…
and “Going for three!” said he.
Well, the people stared…
But some of them cried: “We do not quite understand!”
“What changed it’s worth?”
Swift came the reply… “It was the Touch of the Master’s Hand.”
***
Many a man with his life out of tune
Battered and scarred with sin
Is auctioned cheap to the thoughtless crowd
much like the Old Violin.
A mess of pottage, a glass of wine,
It’s a game and He travels on.
He’s going once.. He’s going twice…
He’s going and almost gone.
But, the Master comes… and the foolish crowd
can never quite understand
the worth of a soul
Or the change that’s wrought
By the touch of the Master’s Hand.
Good evening, all.
Straw Man
July 17th, 2011
7:39 pm
“Speaking as a Christian, that is…”
Do you know of any ultra conservative Jewish group that sacrifices animals for sins, stones people among them for adultery and murder, goes to Jerusalem every year for the festivals and worships at the temple (that has been destroyed)?
josef
July 17th, 2011
7:41 pm
JohnnyReb
This honorable leftist can’t watch Maher. I have a heart condition…