Obama offers Social Security cut in $4 trillion package
“President Obama is pressing congressional leaders to consider a far-reaching debt-reduction plan that would force Democrats to accept major changes to Social Security and Medicare in exchange for Republican support for fresh tax revenue.
At a meeting with top House and Senate leaders set for Thursday morning, Obama plans to argue that a rare consensus has emerged about the size and scope of the nation’s budget problems and that policymakers should seize the moment to take dramatic action.
As part of his pitch, Obama is proposing significant reductions in Medicare spending and for the first time is offering to tackle the rising cost of Social Security, according to people in both parties with knowledge of the proposal. The move marks a major shift for the White House and could present a direct challenge to Democratic lawmakers who have vowed to protect health and retirement benefits from the assault on government spending….
Rather than roughly $2 trillion in savings, the White House is now seeking a plan that would slash more than $4 trillion from annual budget deficits over the next decade, stabilize borrowing, and defuse the biggest budgetary time bombs that are set to explode as the cost of health care rises and the nation’s population ages.”
That has all the earmarks of a game-changer. At the very least, it ratchets up the pressure on Republicans to negotiate more seriously.
In fact, according to The New York Times, “The president’s renewed efforts follow what knowledgeable officials said was an overture from Mr. Boehner, who met secretly with Mr. Obama last weekend, to consider as much as $1 trillion in unspecified new revenues as part of an overhaul of tax laws in exchange for an agreement that made substantial spending cuts.”
The Post story, however, quotes a Boehner spokesman as saying only that “there are no tax increases on the table.”
As that confusion suggests, few if any details are available. However, the proposal to cut Social Security is probably based on the plan offered by the Bowles-Simpson deficit-reduction commission. If so, I have no argument with it. Among other things, that proposal changes the way that annual Social Security benefit increases are calculated, making them more reflective of what retirees experience. The changes would have the greatest effect on the most affluent 20 percent of retirees, with low-income workers actually seeing an increase in their benefits.
Most important, the Bowles-Simpson approach treats Social Security on its own terms. It does not cut the program as a way to balance the overall budget, and it gives the program full credit for the many billions of dollars that have been borrowed from it over the last quarter century to fund general government. The changes are intended to make the program actuarially sound on its own terms, and that’s a good thing. Even the AARP last month embraced reform proposals that cut future benefits as long as it’s part of a package to make the system fiscally sound.
But again, we’ll have to see what exactly the president is proposing, and in turn what the Republican reaction will be. In recent days, we’ve seen signs that the GOP’s united front against revenue increases was beginning to crack. Message discipline had broken down as Boehner, Majority Whip Eric Cantor, Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell and a variety of GOP backbenchers began to sing different tunes.
This proposal by the president may break that wide open.
– Jay Bookman
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468 comments Add your comment
SKH
July 7th, 2011
10:24 am
“Maybe I’m just a simple minded fool since I am a knee-jerk liberal, but correct me if I’m wrong. Section 8 subsidies go to the property owner, private enterprise. Food stamps go to the grocery store, private enterprise. ”
I don’t know either, comrade. But I’m going to find out and let you all know when I do. There are a number of things I know a lot about and a number I don’t. Sometimes I think we are all of us idiot savants
Doggone/GA
July 7th, 2011
10:24 am
“You put money into it, it collects interest, when you retire, you get the money + interest paid back to you”
And when the economy caves you lose a lot of it. I retired just before the “Bush downturn” and lost HALF of my retirement savings. Then I lost even more when the economy crashed again at the end of his 2nd term. So you’re going to have a HARD time convincing me that SS should be put on THAT footing too.
Joe Mama
July 7th, 2011
10:26 am
SKH — “Thank you for that calm, sensible response JM. He lives out of state and I only see him 2-3 times a year. But I will look into the law myself and see what is required of recipients. And I will report it (by e-mail so I have a paper trail) if the law is being broken and see what happens.”
I encourage you to do so, even if nothing comes of it. At least if the responsible agency looks into things, you can have the satisfaction of knowing that *something* was done.
“Really, I guess I had lapsed into a degree of hopelessness or regarding who out of control things seem to have gotten in our nation. I guess I never imagined something might be done to rectify abuses or that the government doesn’t really care. But let’s see if those feeling were wrong.”
I think that, in a lot of cases, government doesn’t act to remedy problems or abuses because no one bothers to say anything, and so government can’t fix what it doesn’t know about. We all have a civic responsibility to speak up when we see something wrong, whether it’s a tree that’s fallen and knocked down power lines or a ladder that’s fallen off a truck onto 285 or a suspicious person hanging around a liquor store long after closing time or even someone who seems to be playing fast and loose with their benefit payments. Sometimes, all it takes is a call or a letter to the right person or agency and the question, ‘hey, is this right or wrong?’
We always call Georgia Power when a tree falls in our neighborhood and whacks the power lines; they always seem to know that our power’s out, but they seem to appreciate it when we can tell them *where* the offending tree appears to be (if we perhaps heard it or can see it). I expect that if your friend’s tenants turn out to be grifting dirtbags, then the responsible agency will be likewise appreciative.
Granny Godzilla
July 7th, 2011
10:26 am
Doggone/GA
AMEN!
getalife
July 7th, 2011
10:27 am
pp,
I voted for Hillary because I knew the gop would run over him.
They just did.
The lesser of two evils are now even.
@@
July 7th, 2011
10:27 am
josef:
Otherwise, I’m finding the turn on Obama from his former cheering section rather humorous.
You have a warped sense of humor.
ME TOO!
(ISH)
poison pen
July 7th, 2011
10:28 am
Doggone/GA
“Obama said that the public would have 5 days to read a bill and add their comments before it was passed”
” BTW – I looked it up and this is NOT what he said. He said he would give non-emergency bills a five day period for comment before he SIGNED them, not before they were passed. He lied about that too…but at least get straight what he SAID.”
Doggone, I don’t know where you looked but it sure as hell wasn’t utube, go there and you will see his speech, I am correct and you are wrong. I don’t think that you looked at all, are your arms getting heavy yet????????????
poison pen
July 7th, 2011
10:29 am
Have a good day everyone.
DebbieDoRight
July 7th, 2011
10:30 am
SKH: Please, just simply answer the question. Why the continual deflection? It’s almost seems like people here reflexively change the subject, chase a red herring, when asked a direct question.
How am I deflecting? I answered your question, you just didn’t like my answer. Sorry.
getalife
July 7th, 2011
10:31 am
I don’t think it is funny.
Sad.
Doggone/GA
July 7th, 2011
10:31 am
” I don’t think that you looked at all”
Go to Google. Put in “obama bills 5 days” and you’ll see what I saw
Brosephus
July 7th, 2011
10:32 am
I’d like to see is to have SS turned into a kind of IRA.
I wouldn’t. IRA’s and 401(k)’s for SS would be nothing less than giving financial institutions more free government handouts. If you want to do that, you might as well make Wall Street the new US Treasury and Budgeting office.
josef
Cool marionettes… I like those.
buying cigarettes with food stamps
July 7th, 2011
10:32 am
Gip…is that YOU old buddy? Your subterfuge is truly amazing! Or maybe it’s your alter ego or maybe…I …hate…to…imagine…it…you are LEGION.
Gator Joe
July 7th, 2011
10:33 am
Jay,
I’m sick and tired of hearing the Republicans, and their sudden concern about deficits (since President Obama took office), talk about the debt we are passing on to our children and grandchildren. Their [Republican Politicians'] children and grandchildren won’t have to worry, because big corporations, especially Oil, big insurance, and big pharma will insure Dad, Mom, Grandpa, and Grandma are well financed. As for the rest of us, we (and our children) will be paying for Bush’s unpaid-for wars, deficit-producing tax cuts, and other fiscal wrongdoing.
Bosch
July 7th, 2011
10:34 am
“I’d like to see is to have SS turned into a kind of IRA.”
Isn’t that just code for privatizing Social Security? The people did not like it back in 2005 and after the ‘08 crash, you can bet your pretty pennies they aren’t going to go for it now.
jack bull
July 7th, 2011
10:36 am
How ’bout a cut in any and all foreign aid? that’s not being immoral or anything, we simply can’t afford it right now, and need that money here.
Aquagirl
July 7th, 2011
10:36 am
We all have a civic responsibility to speak up when we see something wrong
And to not participate in those wrongs. SKH. It sounds like your friend is collecting money that he thinks shouldn’t be distributed. It’s like complaining about the Medicare-scooter people being “lazy” while selling them government-subsidized scooters.
Does your friend have more properties than he could rent on the open market? Sounds like he made some bad/unfortunate investment choices and is taking government money for a bailout.
I know this is your lifelong friend and all, but there’s some serious cognitive dissonance going on here.
Granny Godzilla
July 7th, 2011
10:36 am
A Kos diary worth the read
From the link…
“The so called “cuts” being discussed are not cuts in actual benefits, but cuts in how increases are to be measured based on the consumer price index”…..
“For raising this possibility, we are told today that President Obama has committed political suicide. On purely political grounds try explaining why seniors would revolt over not receiving 14 cents additional monthly benefit when their checks went up by $34?
Answer: They will revolt if the professional left and perpetually disappointed scare the bejesus out of senior citizens about cuts to benefits without mentioning that the cuts are 14 cents less of an increase out of a $34 increase — ya know, kind of like what Fox News, the Tea Party and Sarah Palin did with “death panels.”
SKH
July 7th, 2011
10:37 am
Left wing management:
Thanks for that response. I respect convictions based on some degree of reflection, even if they don’t align with mine. BTW, I am three days new here.
Left wing management
July 7th, 2011
10:37 am
josef, @@, “Otherwise, I’m finding the turn on Obama from his former cheering section rather humorous”
Sort of like the turn on George W. Bush that we’ve seen? As for example on the part of Rick Perry?
So I think we can all find examples of these “turns”, can we not? The tougher task here as always is to criticize those we criticize JUSTLY.
getalife
July 7th, 2011
10:38 am
The 2 trillion was not good enough so he wants to cut 4 trillion.
The gop are jumping on tax cuts now to get their corrupt hands on SS and Medicare.
Unbelievable.
Paging Hillary Clinton.
detritusUSA
July 7th, 2011
10:38 am
Damage Social Security and the “Bonus Army” will march!
Bosch
July 7th, 2011
10:42 am
I used to have a house that I rented, had one Section 8 tennant and decided never again to do that. Aquagirl is right SKH, if your friend chooses to go that route, that’s his bed to lie in — he doesn’t have to do it.
Granny Godzilla
July 7th, 2011
10:42 am
getalife
he proposed 4 trillion in April….
josef
July 7th, 2011
10:42 am
SKH
You’re three days new? Welcome aboard!
Bosch
July 7th, 2011
10:43 am
LWM,
Yeah, I get a kick out of the wingnuts here who criticize GWB NOW…
back then he was the end all.
josef
July 7th, 2011
10:44 am
BOSCH
Shut up!
Seriously, though, why won’t you go that route again?
Joe Mama
July 7th, 2011
10:45 am
Aquagirl — “And to not participate in those wrongs. SKH. It sounds like your friend is collecting money that he thinks shouldn’t be distributed. It’s like complaining about the Medicare-scooter people being “lazy” while selling them government-subsidized scooters. ”
Very well said, Aquagirl.
I don’t think ANYONE on the left approves of welfare fraud; but all too often, it seems like people on the right frame the issue as if we do, and then posit that anyone against welfare reform is automatically in *favor* of welfare fraud. Nothing could be farther from the truth.
I’m pro-welfare. I think there are deserving people who sincerely need it. I’m also anti-fraud. I think there are some people who don’t need or deserve it, but who are getting it nonetheless. I think we should find the people in the second category and kick them off the benefit rolls so that we can
A) Save money
B) Focus on the deserving
C) Increase public confidence and comfort with the existing welfare system
D) Either plow the savings back into other social support programs or else aim that money at debt reduction
When good Americans dime out welfare fraudsters, we all win. Except the fraudsters, and screw them.
Bosch
July 7th, 2011
10:46 am
josef,
I don’t own the house anymore!
stands for decibels
July 7th, 2011
10:46 am
What do the dems stand for?
um… slightly less Fascistic supreme court justice appointments than the Reps? That’s about the most important reason for me continuing to support BHO’s re-election.
Obviously, the guy’s managed to get passed a few somewhat more humane pieces of legislation than would a Gramps/BibleSpice administration–the ACA, Ledbetter, etc.–and I don’t poo-poo the difficulty any mildly progressive Dem is going to have dealing with the corporatist jerks who won’t be happy until the piddling safety net we have in place is ripped to shreds.
But still, I know a hippy-punching when I see it, and I think that’s what this is.
getalife
July 7th, 2011
10:47 am
GG,
I will keep standing on never ever let corrupt congress get their corrupt hands on SS and Medicare.
These are programs Americans have paid for all their working lives and should not be stolen.
Period.
SKH
July 7th, 2011
10:47 am
“I know this is your lifelong friend and all, but there’s some serious cognitive dissonance going on here.”
Wow…I share information about one example of how things might be broken that I gleaned from a personal relationship and I am being psychoanalyzed, upbraided and scrutinized. You know I asked a question yesterday on a different forum (one of Jay’s though) to see what common ground people here on opposite ends of the political spectrum might have and it (to my knowledge was never answered). It was this: does everyone believe disadvantaged people need a hand up rather than a hand out? And I think I asked a second question: who do we say is in need of a hand up? I am thinking that having the same answers to these questions would go a long way to reforming our entitlement programs. Really, don’t you think they should be thought through from the ground up?
Joe Mama
July 7th, 2011
10:47 am
SKH — “BTW, I am three days new here.”
I’m only a couple of months here myself. Welcome, welcome.
If we’re introducing ourselves, I’m a college-educated, firearm-owning disabled Army vet. And after voting Republican for 20-odd years, I switched to the Democrats in 2004. But it’s okay with me if we disagree on things, so long as we can be polite about it.
Jefferson
July 7th, 2011
10:48 am
I prefer raising the FICA taxes rather than cutting benifits. SS is one of the best things the US gov’t has done for workers. Without it, retired folks would be in a huge mess. Man up, pay your way.
Bosch
July 7th, 2011
10:48 am
“I think there are some people who don’t need or deserve it, but who are getting it nonetheless.”
While I agree with that sentiment, Joe Mama, you have to be careful when trying to evaluate who is “worth it” or “deserving” and not. But there are systems in place to catch fraud, but in my opinion, not enough, and case workers are infamously overworked and underpaid — you can’t keep trained ones, and they have so many cases to deal with they can’t keep track of their clients.
Bosch
July 7th, 2011
10:51 am
“Really, don’t you think they should be thought through from the ground up?”
SKH,
I applauded the welfare reform in 1995 — it was a bi-partisan effort and I think did alot of good. In my opinion, all “systems” need to be reformed or seriously looked at every 10 years or so, things become complacent and that to me leaves the window open for fraud and abuse because people figure out ways to get around certain eligibility requirements, etc.
So yes, I think reform or restructuring needs to happen on an on-going basis.
Thomas
July 7th, 2011
10:51 am
Whoever was blogging earlier that life expectancy, mortality tables, are not extending in tenor was flat arse wrong. Raising retirement age by a year or two on folks entering the labor pool should absolutely be done.
Left wing management
July 7th, 2011
10:51 am
Bosch: “Yeah, I get a kick out of the wingnuts here who criticize GWB NOW… back then he was the end all.”
You know it’s funny, here I’m tempted to conclude that the memory of W now presents the current right wingers with something of an embarrassing paradox. Though he was a hard liner in his first term who prompted outrage and won the support of the right, he then went on later and used that “political capital” in an almost Reaganesque way to promote things that look surprisingly pragmatic in retrospect, for example the prescription drug plan. From the standpoint of the current crop of right wingers, that looks almost naive. To them, why do something that grows government in a conservative-friendly way (the “old” pragmatism) when you can just abolish it, shut it down. That’s actually in reach now, thanks to the radicalization of the national political environment post-financial crash.
By the way, recall that in just 2008 Jim DeMint — Jim Hussein DeMint!!!! — actually supported Mitt Romney. Just ponder that fact for a moment, which as much as anything else should bring home the stunning political reversal –the terrifying resurgence – that we have seen in the ideological alignments in our time. It’s a true tectonic shift.
Doggone/GA
July 7th, 2011
10:52 am
“Wow…I share information about one example of how things might be broken that I gleaned from a personal relationship and I am being psychoanalyzed, upbraided and scrutinized”
That’s pretty much how it works here. If you want a forum where your words are taken at face value and not questioned, you’re in the wrong place.
josef
July 7th, 2011
10:53 am
SKH
My name is Josef and I’m a blogoholic…
Agree with somebody else? I don’t even agree with myself…
BTW
Be forewarned, on the eighth day we call in the mohel…
Granny Godzilla
July 7th, 2011
10:55 am
Thomas
Well please post proof that you are round arse correct will you?
Ayn Rant
July 7th, 2011
10:55 am
The federal deficit is a national subsidy amounting to 14% of our economy. The purpose of federal deficit spending, ever since it was initiated by the Reagan Administration, is to prop up an economy burdened by a progressively failing private sector. Our private sector cannot produce the goods and services that Americans want, as evidenced by our persistent high trade deficit, and cannot create the jobs that Americans need, as evidenced by our low labor participation rate.
Can you imagine the devastating effect of slashing 14% of the jobs and 14% of consumer spending power? Do you fantasize that the private sector will finally be energized enough to create jobs by investing in an economy that is 14% poorer than today? Are you concerned about how to fill the vacuum left by cutting the deficit?
Should we not pay the same attention to fixing our private sector as we pay to fixing our federal budget? Why are we so enthusiastic over leaping blindfolded into the void?
Bosch
July 7th, 2011
10:55 am
LWM,
Yeap to all of that — David Brooks nailed it the other day in his NYT article.
Joe Mama
July 7th, 2011
10:57 am
Doggone — “That’s pretty much how it works here. If you want a forum where your words are taken at face value and not questioned, you’re in the wrong place.”
Agree. You kinda need a thick skin in here. I tend to point and laugh a lot; it helps me keep my temper under control in here most of the time.
@@
July 7th, 2011
10:58 am
WSJ (Subscription required)
BY OLYMPIA SNOWE AND JIM DEMINT
Have come together on a balanced budget amendment.
Whatever happens when President Obama meets with congressional leaders of both parties at the White House today, no long-term solution is on the table for the spending habits in Washington that have endangered the prosperity of future generations. With our federal debt exceeding $14 trillion—nearly 100% of our gross domestic product—fiscal calamity is jeopardizing our standard of living and undermining our national security. And President Obama recently requested that we add an additional $2.4 trillion to our debt.
There has to be another way, and there is. Republicans in the Senate are united in our concern about our nation’s fiscal …
Not that I think a “balanced budget amendment” is worth the paper it’s written on, but…
Olympia Snowe and Jim DeMint TOGETHER!!??!!
jt
July 7th, 2011
10:58 am
How degrading it must be………………………..
to be an Obama supporter.
.
How utterly………….embarressingly, morally bankrupting……………degrading.
getalife
July 7th, 2011
10:59 am
Now that the dems are a corporate party too, the gop can pretend to fight for the middle class.
Now that would be funny.
stands for decibels
July 7th, 2011
10:59 am
On a lighter note, I loved this human interest piece on our Brosephus…
.
.
.
(if I neglect to put a “j/k” at the bottom here does he hunt me down and kill me? probably not…)
Brosephus
July 7th, 2011
11:01 am
In my opinion, all “systems” need to be reformed or seriously looked at every 10 years or so, things become complacent and that to me leaves the window open for fraud and abuse because people figure out ways to get around certain eligibility requirements, etc.
You Damn Right!!!
Bosch
July 7th, 2011
11:02 am
Brosephus,
[You Damn Right!!!]
Yo.
josef
July 7th, 2011
11:04 am
SFD
@ 10:59
Brosephus
July 7th, 2011
11:04 am
dB
Think I should have offered something other than my sausage? I figured at least the ladies would be interested.
Pennsylvanian
July 7th, 2011
11:06 am
sfd @ 10:59 – ‘…spooked fans…’ Hilarious.
Brosephus
July 7th, 2011
11:07 am
Bosch
That 10:51 should be policy for most everything, budget included. I have no problem with a top-to-bottom review every 10 years to weed out the outdated and ineffective. Debt issues could be addressed with minor adjustments in spending/income amounts without having to make drastic/draconian decisions every 50 years when both parties fu*k things up to oblivion. I think something like that would be far more productive than a balanced budget amendment. Simply balancing the budget will not get rid of things we don’t need or are no longer effective.
Granny Godzilla
July 7th, 2011
11:07 am
Brosephus
My what a fine looking man you are….mmmmmmmmmmm….mmmmmmmmm
Granny felt a wee “ping”
SKH
July 7th, 2011
11:08 am
“My name is Josef and I’m a blogoholic…”
Hello Josef. How long have you not been clean?
getalife
July 7th, 2011
11:09 am
Wait until you see this bill written by lobbyists.
It will be huge to get their corrupt hands on SS and Medicare.
Those unlimited donations are paying off better than expected for those who can donate.
Left wing management
July 7th, 2011
11:09 am
getalife, decibels: “What do the dems stand for?”
That’s the question that is almost too depressing to consider. Social Democratic parties all over the world are in almost complete free-fall. The Clinton/Blair “Third Way” which made a pact with the financial order in a bid to trim back the excesses of the old 20th C welfare state (welfare reform, e.g.) and ushered in the Go Go 90s of expansion and prosperity (Rule Britannia to Cool Britannia, the New Swingin London of the 90s, and all that) crashed hard on the shoals of reality in the 2007-8 crash. As a result, it has been the first to take the fall as a result (isn’t it amazing that the conservative right generally has not suffered the same fate? Hmm, now why might that be?). Thus, the social democratic center left finds itself faced with its greatest crisis perhaps since the Weimar Republic, faced with the terrible choice between resurrecting the old 20th C Keynesian orthodoxy or the Third Way neoliberal compromises of the Clinton/Blair era.
Aquagirl
July 7th, 2011
11:09 am
Wow…I share information about one example of how things might be broken that I gleaned from a personal relationship and I am being psychoanalyzed, upbraided and scrutinized.
Welcome to the forums, lol.
Seriously, if you feel kicked around, we do play rough. Jay’s a pretty tight moderator though and mindless personal attacks usually get a smackdown.
But I really believe it’s fair game to ask what part your friend is voluntarily playing in this system that he derides. He is directly benefiting from a government program he feels enables cheaters, taking government cash so they can buy rims or TV’s or whatever irritates him. If he–or you–are unwilling to HONESTLY ask “what part do *I* play in this program?” then that should tell you something. And not about the alleged sec. 8 cheaters.
Sorry if you feel unsupported about your complaints, but if you want to ask the section 8 people about their snazzy rimz, why is it out of bounds to ask your friend about his house, car, or Tiffany’s account? He’s getting government money too, and likely a h3ll of a lot more than his tenants.
Joe Mama
July 7th, 2011
11:09 am
SKH — “Hello Josef. How long have you not been clean?”
He scrubs and scrubs, but . . .
stands for decibels
July 7th, 2011
11:10 am
…s’cuse me while I whip this out.
vinny
July 7th, 2011
11:10 am
It’s not “revenue”, Jay. It’s TAXES!! You libs need to begin calling things like they are instead of deceiving Americans.
Normal
July 7th, 2011
11:12 am
vinny,
TAXES does not qualify as a four letter word. Brace yourself…we need them.
stands for decibels
July 7th, 2011
11:12 am
isn’t it amazing that the conservative right generally has not suffered the same fate? Hmm, now why might that be?
think it was Harry Truman who said “when given the choice between a fake Republican and a real one, they’ll pick the real one every time.”
anyhow, that’s why.
Brosephus
July 7th, 2011
11:12 am
GG
I had on my good t-shirt when they snapped that pic.
josef
July 7th, 2011
11:13 am
SKH
Into my third year…
Joe Mama
Yeah, well we do know cleanliness is next to G-dliness, and in my case I don’t think the scrubbing is working…
getalife
July 7th, 2011
11:13 am
lefty wing,
I had a bad feeling when CNN gave the gop a free pass and asked why doesn’t the president cave.
They don’t have to ask that question anymore.
Pelosi is the only one left at the table that will put up a fight for the people.
It’s a done deal.
The dems will lose this cycle.
Doggone/GA
July 7th, 2011
11:13 am
“It’s not “revenue”, Jay. It’s TAXES!!”
Are you only JUST NOW figureing that out? Welcome to the real world. Glad you finally made it.
Granny Godzilla
July 7th, 2011
11:13 am
Vinny
Taxes to us is revenue to government (which is also us)
Us “libs” understand that, do you “cons”?
Wanna’ talk about amnesty?
@@
July 7th, 2011
11:14 am
LWM:
Perry makes your team extremely nervous.
I liked Kay Bailey Hutchison but it’s all about the government bailout.
My husband wouldn’t want me to reveal this, but he voted for Jimmy Carter (a homegrown peanut-brain). Folks are saying Texans wouldn’t support Perry. Don’t bet on it.
Rick Perry: Would Obama stand a chance against the Texas governor?
Joe Mama
July 7th, 2011
11:15 am
Vinny — “It’s not “revenue”, Jay. It’s TAXES!!”
So when I pay at the gate to get into a national park, that’s a tax? Paying for an Amtrak ticket is a tax?
“You libs need to begin calling things like they are instead of deceiving Americans.”
And you need to bring the jerking of your leg under control, Vinny. Perhaps decaf would help.
deegee
July 7th, 2011
11:18 am
Granny Godzilla, I am calling out all of the able bodied people that could be working but are not working because they found a quack doctor to render them disabled. The SS Disability program is wrought with fraud. There are plenty of people that collect a SS disability check and supplement their income by selling drugs. My recommendation is that you cut SS Disability benefits to men that are able to have sex and produce a child, and any female that is able to endure childbirth.
getalife
July 7th, 2011
11:18 am
The gop sold out the cons too on raising taxes to get this deal vinny.
Thomas
July 7th, 2011
11:18 am
From health and human resources blended male female
1900 49.2
1910 51.5
1920 56.4
1930 59.2
1940 63.6
1950 68.1
1960 69.9
1970 70.8
1980 73.9
1990 75.4
2000 77.8
Granny Godzilla
July 7th, 2011
11:20 am
Thomas
From Where?
SKH
July 7th, 2011
11:22 am
“If we’re introducing ourselves, I’m a college-educated, firearm-owning disabled Army vet.”
Hey JM. Thanks for your service. I lam a veteran as well, but entered military service after Vietnam was over. I don’t know what kind of shape I’d be in had I been born early enough to be drafted – not good, I think. I have an MA in English and now work (ironically) as a software engineer. I am “conservative” (though I dislike that term because I’m not convinced people who go by that label always try to “conserve” things) and that is tied to my religious faith more than anything; in a godless universe, I can’t imagine myself logically caring about much – I guess I’d be an absurdist or nihilist.
josef
July 7th, 2011
11:22 am
degee
“There are plenty of people that collect a SS disability check and supplement their income by selling drugs”
And you know this how?
stands for decibels
July 7th, 2011
11:23 am
GG, also–the relevant tables would be those that show life expectancy from working age onward. Dramatic reversals in infant/child mortality, good as they are for our society at large, don’t really factor in to this discussion.
Jm
July 7th, 2011
11:24 am
Talk is cheap. I’ll believe it when i see it.
Show me the money!
getalife
July 7th, 2011
11:28 am
JM,
I saw cantor roll his eyes when the speaker said he is open to tax increases to get this deal.
I think there will be divisions in both corrupt parties but this deal will pass.
Bipartisan of course.
Granny Godzilla
July 7th, 2011
11:29 am
stands
understood.
what gets me about the debate is the need to recognize somehow that women, poor people, people of color, people who work with their bodies not behind a desk are seeing their life expectancy actually decrease.
not a whole lot of 65, 67 or 70 year old firefighters or miners…
stands for decibels
July 7th, 2011
11:30 am
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/07/07/us-usa-debt-exclusive-idUSTRE7660GE20110707
Oh, brilliant. NOW you start leaking to Reuters teensy bits and pieces of how you might-could go to the 14th amendment for a way out of this crapstorm.
“Can’t anyone here play this game?”
getalife
July 7th, 2011
11:32 am
Wall Street is happy as usual.
The 14th amendment thingie would be tied up in court and they would default.
SKH
July 7th, 2011
11:33 am
“But I really believe it’s fair game to ask what part your friend is voluntarily playing in this system that he derides.”
That’s fine, but not when the question I posed based on that information is ignored. Happily, I think a number of people have since tried to answer, so I am content. But I have lived long enough to know how finger-pointing works: someone points out something deficient out about you, your actions or your beliefs and then you point out something deficient about him or her. I have done it many times. I have seen it done many times in my 3 days on Jay’s forums. I also believe, however, and you probably do as well, that no solutions will be found in finger-pointing. It’s a childish, knee-jerk response we all succumb to from time to time. I am heartened to see some good ideas being put forth here today, though
Joe Cool~PRESIDENT Obama Tells Birthers,"Thanks For Playing BI+CHES"
July 7th, 2011
11:34 am
“I saw cantor roll his eyes when the speaker said he is open to tax increases to get this deal.”
Now you know he’s a lil wuss. He’ll never get the shine he wants. He’s one sneaky lil dude.
josef
July 7th, 2011
11:34 am
SKH
Since you’re a newbie…check out Friday Night Travellin Music here and see who we REALLY are…you might enjoy…
Paulo977
July 7th, 2011
11:35 am
TIME OUT!!!!
http://www.clarrissegill.com/videoclips/amazing_grace.php
stands for decibels
July 7th, 2011
11:36 am
The 14th amendment thingie would be tied up in court and they would default.
well yeah, but you begin this debt ceiling “debate” by saying something to the effect of “If push comes to shove, we’ll meet our obligations, the Constitution requires it. We want to go on legislating a debt ceiling, and we intend to, but our first priority is to our people.”
You don’t pu$$y out all this time and then start having Little Timmy Geitner’s butt-boys leaking to the press that they might go there if those meanie-head Republicans keep being meanie heads.
sheesh.
Kevin
July 7th, 2011
11:36 am
“It ratchets up the pressure on Republicans to negotiate more seriously.”
Really, Jay?
Negotiate more seriously?
Here’s a novel concept for negotiating more seriously: How about a democrat offering up, oh, I don’t know, a BUDGET. They’ve provided nothing that will commit them to anything. Nada. Let’s make the Republican’s the bad guys; the group that wants to kick grandma out in the cold.
Don’t be disingenuous. You’re a better writer than that.
Joe Cool~PRESIDENT Obama Tells Birthers,"Thanks For Playing BI+CHES"
July 7th, 2011
11:37 am
SKH,
Did your buddy tell you that they Cadillac Escalades too?
Uncle Jed
July 7th, 2011
11:37 am
POTUS speaks.
CUE: pom-poms / media types /supportive bloggers.
getalife
July 7th, 2011
11:37 am
“There are plenty of people that collect a SS disability check and supplement their income by selling drugs”
They sell pain meds.
The DEA cracked down on local doctors to make them scared to lose their license
Now they have a pain clinic scam going and I had to raise holy hell to keep my pain meds.
Bosch
July 7th, 2011
11:38 am
And yesterday, Kristof nailed it:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/07/opinion/07kristof.html?ref=opinion
Left wing management
July 7th, 2011
11:39 am
@@: “Perry makes your team extremely nervous.”
It’s not that he makes my “team” nervous, it’s that I’m nervous FOR MY COUNTRY. This guy makes George W. look like a Rhodes scholar — makes him look like an Obama, in other words — and that’s a scary thought.
He’s a neoliberal secessionist — he’ll wreak havoc on the national scene.
Uncle Jed
July 7th, 2011
11:39 am
The national unemployment rate is mired at 9.1 percent.
CUE: focus the laser on creating jobs / roll out funhouse mirrors
Don't Tread
July 7th, 2011
11:39 am
“it ratchets up the pressure on Republicans to negotiate more seriously”
Of course nothing is “serious” unless you get your wish to steal more money from those who earned it to give to those who did not.
Bosch
July 7th, 2011
11:39 am
“Here’s a novel concept for negotiating more seriously: How about a democrat offering up, oh, I don’t know, a BUDGET.”
As someone here the other day brought up, you do realize that since the Democrats have not offered up a budget, that means NO NEW SPENDING — right? Isn’t that what you wingnuts want?
Thomas
July 7th, 2011
11:40 am
google health and human services mortality by decade or over time
Also, it is always healthy (no pun intended) to call your life insurance company and ask what there actuaries are seeing. The life settlement market got whacked fairly heavy over the past decade as the main actuarial tables were just updated (post the 2000 info) extending the expected mortality another year or two.
No doubt the chart is bottom left to top right as to expected life.
Bosch
July 7th, 2011
11:40 am
“This guy makes George W. look like a Rhodes scholar — ”
Not to mention Paul hates him.
getalife
July 7th, 2011
11:41 am
Rove’s unlimited donations can give us another idiot from Texas.
It could happen again.