The utter madness of not raising the debt ceiling
The United States would immediately have its top-notch credit rating slashed to “selective default” if it misses a debt payment on Aug. 4, Standard & Poor’s managing director John Chambers told Reuters.
Chambers, who is also the chairman of S&P’s sovereign ratings committee, told Reuters on Tuesday that U.S. Treasury bills maturing on Aug. 4 would be rated ‘D’ if the government fails to honor them. Unaffected Treasuries would be downgraded as well, but not as sharply, he said.
“If the U.S. government misses a payment, it goes to D,” Chambers said.
“The full consequence of a default — or even the serious prospect of default — by the United States are impossible to predict and awesome to contemplate. Denigration of the full faith and credit of the United States would have substantial effects on the domestic financial markets and on the value of the dollar in exchange markets. The nation can ill afford to allow such a result. The risks, the costs, the disruptions, and the incalculable damage lead me to but one conclusion: the Senate must pass the legislation before the Congress adjourns.”
Social Security benefits could be among the first casualties if President Obama and Congress can’t agree to increase the government’s debt limit on Aug. 2, a new analysis shows.
The Bipartisan Policy Center studied Treasury Department receipts and expenditures for August 2009 and 2010 and determined that the government likely would not have enough revenue to pay the full $23 billion payment to Social Security recipients due on Aug. 3.
On that day, according to the analysis, the government would take in about $12 billion in taxes and other revenue but would owe $32 billion, creating a $20 billion shortfall….
“We should be honest with ourselves what this would be like, and the answer is it would be chaotic,” said Jerome Powell, a former Treasury official in the first Bush administration. “There is no way to avoid really serious pain.”
From the Bipartisan Policy Center, documenting what the federal government could and could not continue to pay for once the debt ceiling is hit and the government is prohibited from borrowing additional funds:
Everything above the red line could theoretically be financed, although in practice that would be very difficult because inflows and outflows are so “lumpy,” BPC analysts conclude. (In addition, this is what a “balanced budget” would look like absent additional revenue. To preserve those things above the red line, every expenditure below the red line would have to end.)
In other words, we could continue to pay off bondholders such as China for a few weeks. They could, theoretically, still get paid. But we couldn’t pay our own soldiers. No government salaries would be paid at all, including for those employees who would supposedly be sending out the checks to China and elsewhere.
It is suicidal madness to even contemplate such a step.
– Jay Bookman
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842 comments Add your comment
Keep Up the Good Fight!
June 30th, 2011
9:21 am
Any bets on how long until we hear about Senator Obama’s prior vote as evidence of how the country should now be governed?
Lord Help Us
June 30th, 2011
9:23 am
What a ridiculous approach to debt management…
Competent fiscal management would be to manage the nations finances in a way the debt limit extensions are rare instead of annual (or worse).
The GOP’s approach will cost even more independents…the ‘crazy’ has assumed control…
Lord Help Us
June 30th, 2011
9:25 am
Do NOT negotiate with terrorists (or those who use terrorist tactics…)
Brosephus
June 30th, 2011
9:26 am
That’s not right Jay. My GOP representative and his buddies have assured me that nothing bad’s gonna happen.
godless heathen
June 30th, 2011
9:28 am
The President expresses his concern by heading off on another vacation. If he ain’t worried about it, I ain’t worried about it.
Martin the Calvinist
June 30th, 2011
9:28 am
Time for a Balanced Budget Amendment! Politicians then would have to justify tax increases and increases in spending.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
June 30th, 2011
9:29 am
Raters at Moody’s said in a February report that “If debt service were interrupted — however briefly — we would consider downgrading the rating” on U.S. debt. Flirting with such a downgrade would stop our economic recovery in its tracks, derailing the private-sector momentum that’s created 2.1 million jobs over the past 14 months.
BADA BING
June 30th, 2011
9:30 am
Do you see that Inflow # and that Outflow #? I am no Adolf Einstein, but something has to give. That type of math was never taught in any school.
ty webb
June 30th, 2011
9:31 am
…and not to dissappoint…
“The fact that we are here today to debate raising America’s debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the U.S. Government can’t pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government’s reckless fiscal policies. … Increasing America’s debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that “the buck stops here.” Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better.”
Barack Obama(D-Il) 2006
…oh yeah, he voted to not raise the debt ceiling…among many other Democrats…
carlosgvv
June 30th, 2011
9:31 am
Big Business owns the Republicans and Big Business will decide if the debt ceiling is raised or not. Republicans will do whatever they are told by their Corporate Masters. At this time, it is uncertain what Business will decide but you may be certain that money will be the bottom line.
Brosephus
June 30th, 2011
9:32 am
MtC
One big downside to a BBA is that we would lose the flexibility for the gov’t to act in emergency situations. If you can craft a way to avoid that, then a BBA wouldn’t be a half bad idea, in theory.
Peadawg
June 30th, 2011
9:32 am
Agreed, 100%, Jay.
Let’s see if the GOP and Obama and come to a compromise.
Granny Godzilla
June 30th, 2011
9:34 am
Martin the Calvinist
June 30th, 2011
9:28 am
Time for a Balanced Budget Amendment! Politicians then would have to justify tax increases and increases in spending.
Can’t have the Ryan Budget and a Balanced Budget amendment
Pick one.
Peter
June 30th, 2011
9:35 am
The GOP War machine has taken the money due our citizens, and the rich are backing it !
Granny Godzilla
June 30th, 2011
9:36 am
I say cut all Federal Funding to states over and above the amount
the states pay in.
Lotsa’ red states in trouble tho….
Bosch
June 30th, 2011
9:36 am
I had a little sit down with my finance guy the other day and asked him what he thought of all this and doesn’t people realize that stocks would become like null and void. He agreed. He thinks, as I do, it’s all political theater.
BULLSEYE
June 30th, 2011
9:36 am
As Chef Ramsey would say: ” Shut it down!!”
Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)
June 30th, 2011
9:38 am
Well, I’m pretty sure those old geezers, guvmint workers, and soldiers would be willing to take a IOU. It won’t cost nobody any votes. So might as well hold fast and bring this country to its knees to get what we want. If we don’t then in a few years all Those People and the Mexicans will outnumber us so bad we’ll never get what we want. In for a penny, in for a pound, my Daddy always said.
Have a good day everybody.
Brosephus
June 30th, 2011
9:38 am
Bosch
People don’t think about that kinda stuff. They prefer the flashy stuff that demonizes the other party. Screw all the stuff that will really affect us. The GOP will sprinkle pixie dust over everything in 2013 when they gain control over the WH, and everything will be like it never happened.
Peadawg
June 30th, 2011
9:40 am
All the blame going around in the 20 comments is exactly what’s wrong right now. This side this, this side that…
kimmer
June 30th, 2011
9:42 am
Here’s a question. Why do we even have a debt ceiling? Financial dealings are not my strong suit but it seems to me that the ceiling is a barrier that was put there for a reason. It isn’t much of a barrier if the only answer every time we get near it is to raise it.
Uncle Jed
June 30th, 2011
9:44 am
“Do NOT negotiate with terrorists (or those who use terrorist tactics…)”
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Agreed. The democrat party and associated left-wing radicals need to stop acting like terrorists!
Jimmy62
June 30th, 2011
9:44 am
The Democrats are the ones causing this. If they would be willing to make some serious spending cuts, then the GOP will work with them. But the Dems refuse to do anything except raise taxes. Their supposed cuts are less than useless as far as fixing our economy. When they start acting like there’s a serious problem that cannot be fixed solely by stealing money from rich people, then maybe we can get somewhere. It’s hard to negotiate with a group that thinks spending three times more than you take in is good sense, and thinks that raising taxes to the point where you get maybe 4% more revenue is going to fix anything.
You can call the GOP obstructionist all you want, but it’s the Democrats who refuse to make real cuts or admit that something HAS to be done about taxes and that taking every penny from every rich person in the country still won’t even be close to solving this mess.
Brosephus
June 30th, 2011
9:44 am
Pea
How in the hell do you think we got into such a problem in the first place? We didn’t have a “United, We Fail” party… Until somebody decides to own up to their part in this crap, it will continue. Everyone’s at fault in my book, both parties AND the people who elected them.
Jimmy62
June 30th, 2011
9:45 am
Kimmer: I agree. But then politicians, no matter their party, tend to think they are above such petty concerns as laws. Or were you not paying attention when Obama literally stole GM and Chrysler from their owners to give the companies to their unions?
ByteMe
June 30th, 2011
9:45 am
It is suicidal madness to even contemplate such a step.
Of course. Which is why the armchair poutragers think it’s a great idea.
Jay, you didn’t go far enough in the analysis, though. Many pension funds would have to immediately dump their T-bills, because they would no longer have a high enough rating. Banks would not be able to hold them as part of their asset mix, because they would not have high enough rating (because it would increase the percent they’d have to hold against them). Dump the T-bills all at once and the rate they pay would immediately go up a huge amount (the price goes down, the rate goes up).
General interest rates, which are based against the T-bill, would immediately jump, forcing ARMs to reset to a higher level, putting more people out of their houses.
So much political foolishness, so little brains. When did reality become such a subjective thing for so many people?
Brosephus
June 30th, 2011
9:45 am
The Democrats are the ones causing this. If they would be willing to make some serious spending cuts, then the GOP will work with them. But the Dems refuse to do anything except raise taxes.
Not intended to be a factual statement. Even Rep. Cantor has stated that they have agreed on $2 Trillion in cuts over a period of time. He quickly pulled a Forrest Gump when it was time to agree on revenue issues.
getalife
June 30th, 2011
9:47 am
It is a tea party created issue to commit economic suicide.
The gop want to end Medicare and SS so they want to default.
corporate media, Wall Street and the coc are helping the gop.
Uncle Jed
June 30th, 2011
9:47 am
“I say cut all Federal Funding to states over and above the amount
the states pay in.”
+++++++++++++++++
Why have a federal government; one which imposes mandates on states with little regard for the financing of same? I bet Texas and Arizona would be glad to see the federal government get out of their way, thus allowing for more effective border control, as an example.
Peter
June 30th, 2011
9:48 am
$4Trillion spent on Wars, and Tax cuts for the Rich at the same time…..WOW we are in debt ?
Gosh who would have thought that could happen ?
NOT THE GOP !!!!!!!
Brosephus
June 30th, 2011
9:52 am
UJ
The problem with the whole border control issue is that unless they seccede, the fed will always have jurisdiction because of immigration and national security issues. The easiest way to get the border security they’re demanding is to put up the money to hire the personnel to do it.
Normal
June 30th, 2011
9:52 am
Bottom line: The GOP will blink because their Wall Street bosses will tell them so.
Uncle Jed
June 30th, 2011
9:53 am
“corporate media, Wall Street and the coc are helping the gop.”
+++++++++++++++
I think it can be demonstrated that the first two legs of your milking stool have lended great support to the leftwing side of the equation. I have no idea what “coc” is meant to represent, unless maybe the Canada Opera Company.
Recon (2nd.and 3rd.)
June 30th, 2011
9:53 am
The utter madness of avoiding serious cuts is of greater madness than not raising the debt ceiling. There is still plenty of money to pay interest only and avoid default until Obama and the Democrats finally listen to the will of the people.
Left wing management
June 30th, 2011
9:54 am
Jooblome: “Considering that the debt ceiling has been raised 74 times since 1961 and ten times since 2001, this debate seems like contrived crap.”
Ehhhr you go! Now that’s what I’m talking about.
You’re spot on, Jooblome!
Morning Southies! How ya doin ?
getalife
June 30th, 2011
9:54 am
Peter,
Add in the costs of the w collapse and here we are.
We lost a decade of growth but cons want to finish off our country now.
If they win this cycle, the gop will default.
Uncle Jed
June 30th, 2011
9:57 am
“The easiest way to get the border security they’re demanding is to put up the money to hire the personnel to do it.”
++++++++++++++++++++++
You can’t have it both ways. Bro. If the states put up the money to support something only the feds can control and oversee, which is actually the present day case as the fed creates no money, where is the incentive to give more to a group that hasn’t performed very well historically?!?
Joe Mama
June 30th, 2011
9:57 am
Jimmy62 — “The Democrats are the ones causing this. If they would be willing to make some serious spending cuts, then the GOP will work with them.”
Bullspit. The Democrats have agreed to $2T in spending cuts, have agreed to work on finding more to cut and the GOP STILL won’t consider revenue increases of any kind. You are just plain wrong on this point.
“But the Dems refuse to do anything except raise taxes.”
Bullspit. Again, the Democrats have agreed to $2T in spending cuts and are looking for more. You are just plain wrong.
Martin the Calvinist
June 30th, 2011
9:58 am
Dear granny, don’t paint me with a broad brush, I’ve never said the Ryan Budget plan was one I advocated, I want a balanced budget amendment. His budget is better than the others proposed, but its only a start.
Jay
June 30th, 2011
9:58 am
Mr. Heywood, if you do not cease posting under variants of that name, you will be banned from posting under any name whatsoever.
Capice?
getalife
June 30th, 2011
9:58 am
Yeah Del.
After your party ran up 4 trillion on wars and more trillions on their collapse, they say they are finally listening to you.
Congrats Del.
Uncle Jed
June 30th, 2011
10:00 am
A question: Is utter madness caused by too many calves and too few teats?
Jay
June 30th, 2011
10:01 am
When did reality become such a subjective thing for so many people?
Good post, Byte, but I’d alter that sentence a bit: “When did reality become an optional thing for so many people?”
BADA BING
June 30th, 2011
10:01 am
The gov’t is like Imelda Marcos. Enough shoes already!!
@@
June 30th, 2011
10:03 am
jay, never sit in the political theater’s front row. Not only will it leave you unable to turn your head from left to right, it’ll ruin your vision.
Start at the top of that list and cut all the way down.
Granny Godzilla
June 30th, 2011
10:04 am
Martin
Which do you prefer?
The Ryan Budget OR the balanaced budget amendment?
jt
June 30th, 2011
10:04 am
” No government salaries would be paid at all, including for those employees ”
.
Sounds like a winner to me.
The Back of the American worker deserves a well deserved rest.
.
LIBERTY .
Left wing management
June 30th, 2011
10:05 am
And why are we even HAVING this farcical conversation?
Pop quiz:
Barring a huge upset, Republicans will take control of at least one house of Congress next week.
How worried should we be by that prospect?
Not very, say some pundits. After all, the last time Republicans controlled Congress while a Democrat lived in the White House was the period from the beginning of 1995 to the end of 2000. And people remember that era as a good time, a time of rapid job creation and responsible budgets. Can we hope for a similar experience now?
No, we can’t. This is going to be terrible. In fact, future historians will probably look back at the 2010 election as a catastrophe for America, one that condemned the nation to years of political chaos and economic weakness. – Paul Krugman, Oct. 29, 2010
That’s democracy in action for you.
Read more: http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/editorial/outlook/7270540.html#ixzz1Qlg8fZqQ
Fletch
June 30th, 2011
10:05 am
Well hell, just take the wars off the books and encourage Americans to shop til they drop, maybe throw in a little tax incentive for anything that gets less than 5 mpg. There, problem solved.
Gordon
June 30th, 2011
10:06 am
“Millionares and Billionaires”, “Kids vs. Corporate Jets”, etc. etc.
Cut spending now, and we’ll raise taxes once the economy gets going. We’ve tried raising taxes with the promise of cutting spending, but it hasn’t turned out well no matter who is in control.
The party is over. The bills are now due.
Brosephus
June 30th, 2011
10:06 am
UJ
Where do you think the money for the fed comes from in the first place?? I see no reason that border states could not come together to work a funding arrangement to benefit border security for their states. Does the federal government not already execute little budget nuggets for other states in relation to pet programs? Border security could be moved from DHS to the Defense budget for one. My main point is that people are yelling they’re taxed enough one minute, and then they’re yelling they want more border security the next. If you want it, it will not be free. It has to be paid for, so either you pay for it or you don’t really want it.
ByteMe
June 30th, 2011
10:07 am
Jay, I accept your edits
BADA BING
June 30th, 2011
10:09 am
Why raise the ceiling? Let us lower the floor. And by that, I mean to start at the ground floor and rebuild this bloated gov’t into a lean, pork -free institution that can rebuild our economy.
Left wing management
June 30th, 2011
10:09 am
Godon: “We’ve tried raising taxes with the promise of cutting spending, but it hasn’t turned out well no matter who is in control.”
Uh, Gord, if you raise taxes then ’spending’ doesn’t have quite the same budgetary impact any more does it? You know, mathematically speaking ..
ByteMe
June 30th, 2011
10:10 am
Cut spending now, and we’ll raise taxes once the economy gets going. We’ve tried raising taxes with the promise of cutting spending
Ah, Gordon, you so have it backward.
We’ve tried lowering taxes with the promise of increased revenue and that hasn’t worked at all.
We’ve increased spending to counter bad times — like many economists believe we should — but forgot to cut back spending in good times — also like those same economists believe we should have done.
If you really think anyone will trust the “cut all entitlements” group to keep their word that they will some day allow tax revenues to go up, you’re just drinkin’ the Kool-Aid.
jt
June 30th, 2011
10:10 am
What idiot would join the Border Patrol when they know that the ATF is gunning for them?
Martin the Calvinist
June 30th, 2011
10:11 am
Balanced Budget Amendment, granny g. But I’m also saying we shouldn’t be spending 3.4 to 3.6 trillion either. A balanced budget should be going hand to hand with a smaller federal government. NOT a huge one like the one started in the 1960’s or even the 1930’s. Gotta go to work for now. Gotta pay for those twins the Lord has blessed my family of four with. They are coming in Feb 2012!
getalife
June 30th, 2011
10:11 am
I always go back to the gop’s response to the collapse because it did not pass the smell test.
They voted no and acted like it was not a problem.
It is like it was their plan all along.
A plan to default on the debt.
Our cons will reward them with their votes for this plan.
It is a radical unpatriotic position but we have seen the right’s true patriotism when they lose.
Gordon
June 30th, 2011
10:13 am
LWM @10:09,
“… if you raise taxes then ’spending’ doesn’t have quite the same budgetary impact any more does it? You know, mathematically speaking ..”
You would think so, wouldn’t you? But that’s not how it has worked in Washington all these years. Everytime they get an extra buck, the spend a buck and a half. Just look at revenue – it goes up every year. Yet we have a $14 trillion debt and $1.4 trillion deficit. Politicians don’t apply extra revenue to the deficit, they spend it. Both sides.
BULLSEYE
June 30th, 2011
10:16 am
Send everyone a $300.00 check and the problem is solved.
Atlas Shrugging
June 30th, 2011
10:16 am
I just learned that this raise the budget limit lunacy is so serious Obozo is considering cancelling a fund raiser.
Uncle Jed
June 30th, 2011
10:17 am
“After your party ran up 4 trillion on wars and more trillions on their collapse, they say they are finally listening to you.”
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Spending originates in congress, right? Did the Bush administration have a fillibuster-proof majority? I just don’t recall.
mm
June 30th, 2011
10:17 am
“Big Business owns the Republicans and Big Business will decide if the debt ceiling is raised or not. Republicans will do whatever they are told by their Corporate Masters.”
They’ve already been told by Wall St., the Chamber of Commerce, etc. to raise the debt limit. They’re all afraid of the tea smokers.
“You can call the GOP obstructionist all you want, but it’s the Democrats who refuse to make real cuts”
That is a BS lie and you know it (or maybe you’ve been watching too much Fox News).
The Dems have agreed to 2 trillion in cuts. The GOP has agreed to nothing.
This has been going on for over 2 years now. The GOP asks for concessions, the Dems cave, then the GOP moves the goalpost. Any halfwitted fool can see this.
Granny Godzilla
June 30th, 2011
10:18 am
How about this….
Raise taxes now, and for every percentage point the unemployment rate drops so does the tax.
Joe Mama
June 30th, 2011
10:19 am
ByteMe — “Many pension funds would have to immediately dump their T-bills, because they would no longer have a high enough rating. Banks would not be able to hold them as part of their asset mix, because they would not have high enough rating (because it would increase the percent they’d have to hold against them). Dump the T-bills all at once and the rate they pay would immediately go up a huge amount (the price goes down, the rate goes up).”
“General interest rates, which are based against the T-bill, would immediately jump, forcing ARMs to reset to a higher level, putting more people out of their houses.”
These are all *excellent* points, IMO, and certainly something that our conservative friends and associates need to read and think about. Failing to increase the debt ceiling at this time would certainly have immediate, significant and possibly catastrophic consequences.
Atlas Shrugging
June 30th, 2011
10:20 am
Half witted fool is that an oxymoron for community organizer?
Left wing management
June 30th, 2011
10:20 am
Gordon: “Everytime they get an extra buck, the spend a buck and a half. Just look at revenue – it goes up every year. Yet we have a $14 trillion debt and $1.4 trillion deficit.
Do we live in a historical vacuum, Gordon? What significant world event occurred in 2007-8? Do you realize that that event has had a calamitous impact on our budget situation because it was like someone took a crowbar to the gut of the economy, making it fall to its knees and double over?
“Politicians don’t apply extra revenue to the deficit, they spend it”
But Gordon, you’re simply equating ’spending’ with waste. Why you doin that? Turn off the Hannity and Limbaugh son, it’s bad for the brain! If you show me your own personal monthly cash outflow, I might be able to trim here or there, but you’re spending things for a reason. In other words, it’s not ‘waste’. It’s what you need.
Adam
June 30th, 2011
10:20 am
Peadawg: Well, when you have one side that negotiates in good faith, is willing to put both revenues and spending on the table, and blames the other side for not doing the same…. well, apparently the only way for that other side to look good is to put the same blame back, even if it’s not true.
One side: Both are on the table
Another side: Only one thing is on the table
That’s what’s really going on. And if you can’t work out which side is which, in REALITY, then you’re not really paying attention.
To be fair, I think Boehner wants to make a deal but then you have children like Cantor who screw things up by taking a pledge to a man more seriously than a pledge to uphold the Constitution.
JB
June 30th, 2011
10:20 am
From Obama’s presser: Over 17,000 average, mostly blue collar workers work in the Corporate aircraft industry. Yey, this president continues to use class warfare to make his points. you would think we would have learned our lesson from history when DEMOCRATS put a big tax on Yachts and big boats. All it did was put hard working AMERICANS out of work, didn’t phase the rich. Rich people, and the opportunity to get rich in this country is what makes her great. Most Americans work for rich people. Rich people pay just about ALL the taxes now. I just don’t get it( I do, put can’t tell it all here). Bottom line, working Americans need rich people, and are better off when they get richer. Get a clue people. PS: I’m not rich.
Uncle Jed
June 30th, 2011
10:21 am
“The gov’t is like Imelda Marcos. Enough shoes already!!”
++++++++++++
Good one
The Gipper
June 30th, 2011
10:21 am
There you go again, Jay, trying to scare the Republicans. Elect me and I’ll cut taxes and bring about world peace. Besides, I’m the best chance the GOP has at getting into the White House. Can you dig it. Is that a yes. Then dig me up and prop me up on stage. Maybe hire that Jeff Dunham fellow to help re-animate me.
Uncle Jed
June 30th, 2011
10:23 am
“How about this….
Raise taxes now, and for every percentage point the unemployment rate drops so does the tax.”
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Fool me once….
The wouldn’t reduce the taxes because they would have implemented more entitlements.
retired early
June 30th, 2011
10:23 am
The “big boys” will not allow their GOP “puppets” to cause a financial meltdown. They have an even bigger piece of the pie to lose than most of us do. I would be surprised if these Wall Street CEO’s and the Chamber of Commerce, representing the large business lobby are not giving them an “ear full” as we speak. The T Party leaders are delusional if they think they have control of these GOP Congressmen and if they don’t figure it out soon….The House will have a lot of “one term and gone” Representatives.
It is always, all about the money; therefore, Obama will have some strange bedfellows supporting him on this issue….The National Chamber of Commerce, for one.
Fletch
June 30th, 2011
10:23 am
Joe Mama – “Failing to increase the debt ceiling at this time would certainly have immediate, significant and possibly catastrophic consequences.”
Or maybe not. I defer to all the Stimulus/Bailout/Tarp naysayers who tout the same old line of “There was no need for stimulus, it was a plot to start a government takeover”. Maybe America just needs to stick it’s finger in the socket to see if it really will get shocked.
Adam
June 30th, 2011
10:23 am
ByteMe: If you really think anyone will trust the “cut all entitlements” group to keep their word that they will some day allow tax revenues to go up, you’re just drinkin’ the Kool-Aid.
Exactly. Tax revenue has to be part of any spending cut deal or else it just won’t happen. Then you’ll get spending cuts that do nothing except cut for the sake of cutting.
In other words, hey, we agree that you need to cut some things. Here are the things we support cutting. Now, if you agree to some tax revenue adjustments, like closing loopholes, then we will put together a deal. You won’t get out votes on cuts alone, because we KNOW you won’t increase taxes in any small way unless we do them in the SAME DEAL.
1811/1801 - 0311/0317
June 30th, 2011
10:24 am
“The utter madness of not raising the debt ceiling”
THE UTTER MADNESS OF NOT REDUCING THE DEBT.
Adam
June 30th, 2011
10:25 am
JB: Rich people pay just about ALL the taxes now.
Not intended to be a Factual Statement.
See Jay’s post a few posts back if you don’t believe me. Hint: Payroll taxes
JB
June 30th, 2011
10:25 am
Jeff Sessions from Alabama said from the floor this morning that they ought to put the debt debate on TV………For ALL to hear. YES they should.
Fletch
June 30th, 2011
10:26 am
JB – “Bottom line, working Americans need rich people, and are better off when they get richer. Get a clue people. PS: I’m not rich”
As evidenced in your post. Now, get back in line and row with the others!!!
Uncle Jed
June 30th, 2011
10:26 am
Bro:
“Where do you think the money for the fed comes from in the first place??”
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I think I already made clear that I understood it was not from the federal government. I think we are in some agreement here, but why would only the border states be expected to pick up the lion’s share of the tab, when it is the entire country’s borders being breached?
Keep Up the Good Fight!
June 30th, 2011
10:27 am
Again…. Its apparent that we must be fat because we over eat not under exercise. Why in the past we have tried more exercise before and failed to lose weight. So this time, its clear that we are fat and have to go immediately on a starvation diet. Then and only then when we have proven that we will lose weight that way, then we can consider exercising more. I am sure we’ll lose weight. There is absolutely no reason that we have to consider a diet and more exercise together to stop weight gain and to lose the belly we already have. The belly will disappear if we starve. Its healthy too.
getalife
June 30th, 2011
10:28 am
Too bad the cons are not patriotic like the Defense Secretary Gates.
He does not want to quit on the debt.
He is not a quitter like our cons.
Uncle Jed
June 30th, 2011
10:28 am
“See Jay’s post a few posts back if you don’t believe me. Hint: Payroll taxes”
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Another Hint: tax credits; direct cash handouts; various social programs; NET versus GROSS.
JB
June 30th, 2011
10:29 am
I’d agree to one Tax increase…………The millions of Americans NOT PAYING ONE DIME to get a little skin in the game. Hell, how about 300 bucks if you make 30,000. I know you feel like you’re over taxed now on the 2 packs of cigs a day and the 12 pack you buy everyday, but everyone pays that! How bout a little skin in the game !
Gordon
June 30th, 2011
10:29 am
LWM @10:20
” In other words, it’s not ‘waste’. It’s what you need.”
I guess this is what is at the heart of our disagreement, and what is at the heart of most disagreements between liberals and conservatives. What is the function of the federal government? How much dependency is created and how much is eliminated, in the long term, by entitlement programs? Is the lack of money and resources the true problem, or merely symptom of a larger problem? Reasonable people can disagree over such questions. What I find it hard to believe people disagree about is that our government spends WAY more than it should, and spending other people’s money (the “rich”, the next generation) is very addictive. It WILL end, one way or another.
For the record, I’m not your “son” and I don’t listen to Hannity or Limbaugh.
1811/1801 - 0311/0317
June 30th, 2011
10:30 am
Well, there you go ………. what else do you expect from a closet Muslim.
Headline: “The U.S. has decided to formally resume contact with Egypt’s Muslim Brotherhood group – which does not recognize Israel – in a move that could further alienate some Jewish voters already skeptical of President Barack Obama, it was reported.”
Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0611/58094.html#ixzz1QlmiBywy
Doggone/GA
June 30th, 2011
10:31 am
“The millions of Americans NOT PAYING ONE DIME to get a little skin in the game”
Try again and see if you can get it right. Your despised group of Americans doesn’t exist.
JohnnyReb
June 30th, 2011
10:32 am
From The Heritage Organization: Yesterday, the Bipartisan Research Council released a Debt Ceiling Analysis that showed even if the August 2 deadline is missed, the federal government would still have enough revenue to pay all interest on Treasury securities (thus avoiding default), all Social Security obligations, all Medicare and Medicaid obligations, all Defense contractor bills, all Veterans payments, all active duty troops, and still have almost $7 billion left over for other items. End.
The Left continues their scare tactics. If there was not such a huge number of uniformed, quick to jump to conclusion Americans, their tactics would be hilarious. Instead, they are pathetically scary.
1811/1801 - 0311/0317
June 30th, 2011
10:32 am
Oh my goodness, if this were Palin or Bachmann the libeal news media would be going NUTS !
Headline: “WASHINGTON — They grow up so fast. But not that fast, Mr. President.
In a news conference Wednesday, President Barack Obama twice referred to his oldest daughter, Malia, as being 13 years old.
Not quite. She’s 12.”
Adam
June 30th, 2011
10:32 am
Keep Up: And if we happen to not follow through with our promise to eat less, because that just darn depresses us, then we’ll just have to try it again.
Fletch
June 30th, 2011
10:33 am
Doggone/GA – “Try again and see if you can get it right. Your despised group of Americans doesn’t exist.”
Now Now, JB might simply be referring to the Hedge Fund Manager class, in which case I must agree with him.
Left wing management
June 30th, 2011
10:33 am
Gordon: “I guess this is what is at the heart of our disagreement, and what is at the heart of most disagreements between liberals and conservatives”
What’s a ‘liberal’ ?
I seem to recall we actually had a budget SURPLUS in the past decade or so, don’t you? A surplus that was promptly squandered.
Now, what’s a ‘liberal”, Gord?
retired early
June 30th, 2011
10:33 am
MM
It is truly frustrating to think that had Obama not caved on the “Bush tax cuts” to appease the GOP…we would be having a conversation, mostly, about what to cut…along with eliminating the “corporate wealth fare” tax credits. Damn, I hate that he gave in to them.
AmVet
June 30th, 2011
10:34 am
Ha! Backdoor death panels brought to you by the Party of NO!
People are entitled to their own opinion,s jut not their own facts – i.e., that second 9:44. (For the sake of children, how many times must this lie be buried?!)
Because it is futile to expect the correct usage of our native language by some of the serial offenders, I will no longer point out the lunacy of certain fave words and phrases.
They will simply get a Gong Show GONG!
So for “…stealing money from rich people…” – GONG!
“…when Obama literally stole GM and Chrysler from their owners…” – GONG!!
“Rich people pay just about ALL the taxes now.” – GONG.
and finally…
“Half witted fool is that an oxymoron for community organizer?” – THUD.
(The term is euphemism, not oxymoron, you oxy…)
getalife
June 30th, 2011
10:34 am
When the going gets tough, the gop want to cut and run from their debts.
Economic cowards.
El Jefe
June 30th, 2011
10:34 am
It is funny, how Obama wants CEO’s to pay more for their Corporate aircraft when he gave them the tax break as part of the first stimulus.
Adam
June 30th, 2011
10:34 am
In reference to Scout’s post, I now add “She’s 13 years old” to the list of things that don’t help your argument and only inflate your conservative ego. Remember, other things on this list include “57 states,” “Marine corpse,” and “teleprompter.”
1811/1801 - 0311/0317
June 30th, 2011
10:35 am
Well, here you go. Another liberal “lock-nut” DemoNcrat sworn to uphold the Constitution:
Headline: “Durbin: Illegal Alien Could Be Our Future President”
“After using illegal immigrants as props to push the DREAM Act, Sen. Durbin (D-IL) made the following statement at a Senate committee hearing:
“When I look around this room, I see America’s future. Our doctors, our teachers, our nurses, our engineers, our scientists, our soldiers, our Congressman, our Senators and maybe our President.”
However, Article 2, Section 1, Clause 5 of the Constitution says: “No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President.”
Granny Godzilla
June 30th, 2011
10:35 am
“Bottom line, working Americans need rich people, and are better off when they get richer.”
Actually more accurate would be
“Bottom line, working Americans need rich people,and rich people need working Americans just as much and are both better off when they all get richer.”
And rich folks need to think about just how many working Americans there are and perhaps re-read Les Miserables.
ragnar danneskjold
June 30th, 2011
10:36 am
Good morning all. “Utter madness” is not “failure to obtain a new credit card” – it is “wasteful spending when one does not have the money.”
The leftists have persuaded themselves that they can stimulate the economy by taking more funds away from the private economy, and spending the money to hire more regulators. Sure, that will make employers wish to expand. In a rational world, a rational leader would reduce the restrictive element of government, and allow the private economy to grow. But we are not in a rational time here, rather we have leaders who wish to ration.
1811/1801 - 0311/0317
June 30th, 2011
10:36 am
COMING TO A THEATER NEAR YOU !
UK GOES ON STRIKE…
Unions demand more taxpayer money…
Schools closed, flights delayed…
Riot police brace for violence…
Doggone/GA
June 30th, 2011
10:36 am
“Now Now, JB might simply be referring to the Hedge Fund Manager class, in which case I must agree with him”
But even THEY don’t pay NO taxes!
Adam
June 30th, 2011
10:36 am
retired early: along with eliminating the “corporate wealth fare” tax credits
Yeah right. If the Bush tax cuts had expired the conversation we would be having is whether or not to cut TAXES, not whether or not to cut SPENDING.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
June 30th, 2011
10:36 am
Adam, absolutely. If a starvation diet does not work, we can go to no food at all. But let’s be clear…under NO circumstances do we consider more exercise because that will mean that we’ll just eat more. We are go to stick to this cutting food thing ONLY until it works.
The Gipper
June 30th, 2011
10:37 am
I see a tax hike coming in 2012.
Fletch
June 30th, 2011
10:37 am
We don’t need to raise the debt ceiling, we just need to lower peoples expectations. When was the last time you heard about China having a “debt ceiling” problem?
ty webb
June 30th, 2011
10:38 am
A “surplus” is a revenue problem. A “defecit” is a spending problem.
Brosephus
June 30th, 2011
10:38 am
UJ
What I’m suggesting is that the border states could get together to implement some kind of program specific to their areas that would benefit them in the short term. Once the level of security is reached, then Congress can enact legislation to deal with the immigration issues already here. Allow the states to generate revenue for their program through means in their states. The rest of the states can contribute more to pay for more BP Agents or better equipment.
Personally, I don’t think we’d be able to secure the borders the way people are demanding we do without a loss of civil liberties and/or freedom to move people and goods in and out of this country. I think we’d do unimaginable damage to our economy as well.
The Gipper
June 30th, 2011
10:38 am
1811,
Can I count on you to protect me.
El Jefe
June 30th, 2011
10:39 am
Granny Godzilla,
Let me get this straight -
If I work hard and make a lot of money, I am evil.
If I work hard and start a business that grows, I am evil.
If I use a tax break from Obama, (Corporate aircraft) I am evil.
So, why would I work?
Adam
June 30th, 2011
10:40 am
ty: No a surplus is a revenue bonus, not a revenue PROBLEM. That’s stupid.
BTW to everyone who thinks the debt ceiling should not be raised until we get spending under control: Where were you the total of NINETEEN TIMES your GOP lovelies VOTED to raise it since 2000?
stands for decibels
June 30th, 2011
10:40 am
Standard & Poor’s managing director John Chambers told Reuters.
wait a sec, this is S&P telling us this?
Just tell them our Big Sh-tPile is based on AAA rated mortgages. honest.
They’ll come around. Problem solved. We don’t need no stinkin rotten debt ceiling. Just make the pi[l]e higher.
Common Cents
June 30th, 2011
10:40 am
Here we have a problem decades in the making, and the Tea Party ilk want to force the (Democrat-led) federal government to fix the problem overnight.
I think a rational, measured, incremental approach would suit the purpose just fine. How convenient that the same folks who covered their ears and sang aloud when the cost of wars and tax cuts were discussed from 2001-2008 suddenly emerged from their self-imposed financial restraint coma to blame the Kenyan socialist for all that ails us.
JB
June 30th, 2011
10:41 am
OSHA fines just doubled under Obama.I know first hand………Really helping business. first increase in 20 years ” to be fair”……….but doubled?
Fletch
June 30th, 2011
10:41 am
El Jefe – “So, why would I work?”
I would assume, like the majority of us because you have goals and aspirations that go beyond public housing and food stamps. However, if that’s the life you want, you are free to pursue it. That’s the beauty of America.
Atlas Shrugging
June 30th, 2011
10:41 am
El Jefe
The simple answer is Granny wants you to work, eveil person that you are, so she can get a free ride.
Joe Mama
June 30th, 2011
10:41 am
1811 — “Headline: “The U.S. has decided to formally resume contact with Egypt’s Muslim Brotherhood group”
I don’t see the problem with *talking* to them. Fercryinoutloud, we’ve been talking to the TALIBAN.
Every war or conflict we’ve ever been in has ended (with the exception of the Korean War) with us TALKING to our opponent and bringing an end to hostilities. And we’re still talking to the North Koreans.
stands for decibels
June 30th, 2011
10:41 am
If I work hard and make a lot of money, I am evil.
no. But you are fairly idiotic for imagining anyone actually thinks such a thing.
and I don’t really think you are, or do.
Come on. this “they’re gonna Go Galt if we don’t kiss their befouled arses relentlessly” meme is beyond stupid.
Adam
June 30th, 2011
10:41 am
El Jefe: Who said anything about evil?
Whaheema
June 30th, 2011
10:41 am
The real Madness to not get spending under control. The debt ceiling is the only hammer big enough to rein in the democrat craziness. Democrats just want more “investment” of money we don’t have and don’t need to spend.
Jay is just an attack dog for the left. He has long since stopped having anything real to say unless it’s Friday night.
Peadawg
June 30th, 2011
10:42 am
“BTW to everyone who thinks the debt ceiling should not be raised until we get spending under control: Where were you the total of NINETEEN TIMES your GOP lovelies VOTED to raise it since 2000?”
Good question. Same could be asked of Obama since he voted against it in 2006. I don’t remember all the fear mongering coming from him back then either.
Common Sense
June 30th, 2011
10:42 am
Such a small percentage of bonds due would be technically in default. But it would not be the end of the world.
And Bookman fails to mention the largest holders of the debt, people and businesses in the US. Why is that?
No budget in years. No fiscal discipline at all in Washington.
It’s time for the party to come to an end.
You really cannot have it all.
And the damage to the economy? It’s already been done. You just don’t see it.
ty webb
June 30th, 2011
10:43 am
Adam,
“Stupid is as stupid does”, and you “does” quite frequently. A surplus is not a “bonus”. It simply means that the government took more than they “needed”. A defecit simply means the government spent more than they had.
Gordon
June 30th, 2011
10:43 am
LWM@10:33,
In the fiscal sense, a liberal is someone who believes government should have a much more active role in citizens’ lives than a conservative. Higher taxes, higher spending.
The surplus you refer to happened under a Democratic president with a Republican Congress who worked well together for the most part, and was mainly the result of an expansion in the economy due to the dot com boom, along with it being relatively peaceful time in our history.
In reality, there was no surplus because the government was not (and is not) accounting for the liabilities being accrued for entitlements.
Joe Mama
June 30th, 2011
10:43 am
GG — “Bottom line, working Americans need rich people,and rich people need working Americans just as much and are both better off when they all get richer.”
Post of the Day.
Adam
June 30th, 2011
10:44 am
Peadawg: Good question. Same could be asked of Obama since he voted against it in 2006. I don’t remember all the fear mongering coming from him back then either.
So 1 = 19 now? Maybe in base 19?
Doggone/GA
June 30th, 2011
10:44 am
“Good question. Same could be asked of Obama since he voted against it in 2006. I don’t remember all the fear mongering coming from him back then either”
I see that the concept of a symbolic vote still escapes you.
Brosephus
June 30th, 2011
10:44 am
Scout @ 10:35
Are you saying that a natural born USC can not be President??? According to Fox News….
The panel clashed with Republican lawmakers in front of a room Democrats packed with hundreds of young adults who themselves suggested they were not in the country legally.
“Let me ask everyone here today who is a DREAM Act student to stand and be recognized,” said Sen. Dick Durbin (D. -Ill), the bill’s sponsor.
Nearly everyone in the room stood up. HUMNAN EVENTS contacted Durbin’s press office after the hearing to ask if those in the audience Durbin recognized were in the country illegally, and are still awaiting a response.
Read more: http://nation.foxnews.com/dream-act/2011/06/28/did-democrats-stack-senate-hearing-illegals#ixzz1Qlpywk4T
Seems like there were a few in the room who would still qualify to be POTUS. Some people try to make Mt. Vesuvius from a red ant hill in their backyards. Simply stupefying!!!
El Jefe
June 30th, 2011
10:44 am
Evil is what the President was all about in his speech. Greedy CEO’s, greedy Oil Companies, etc.
I would not be surprised if in the near future, wealth and income will be taxed.
Common Sense
June 30th, 2011
10:44 am
@peadawg,
Where were you the total of NINETEEN TIMES your GOP lovelies VOTED to raise it since 2000?”
That’s such a useless argument. Using it, there would never be a reason NOT to increase the debt limit.
It’s like saying we did it before, so we’ll do it forever.
No more. We have had enough.
Halftrack
June 30th, 2011
10:45 am
We know the things that Obummer is trying doesn’t work. How long we gonna keep at this losing pace until somebody decides that another approach is necessary? Or forgets about themselves and saves the Country. It only takes one to get a fire going.
Peadawg
June 30th, 2011
10:45 am
Common Sense,
I didn’t ask that question. I was responding to the person who did.
Adam
June 30th, 2011
10:46 am
ty: It simply means that the government took more than they “needed”
And therefore we should CUT TAXES!
Sorry, not buying it. A surplus in a yearly budget means more money can be put towards reducing the rolling deficit. It is a BONUS in that respect. The money is still NEEDED. Plus, if you want to make war at random intervals, you’re going to need to stop throwing that onto the deficit. If we had a rolling surplus instead of a rolling deficit, then you could use that money to effectively wage combat operations as needed, instead of borrowing from other countries or private banks to do it.
Fletch
June 30th, 2011
10:47 am
Common Sense – “It’s time for the party to come to an end.”
TRAITOR! That’s not the America I grew up in, that’s not the American way! How dare you stain this great country with your innuendo of responsibiltity and accountability . We’re Americans, it’s our God given right to get it all and get it now!! Take your socialy correct attitude along with your moral compass and get the hell out! (Sarcasm Intended):)
Adam
June 30th, 2011
10:47 am
ty: Or, to put it another way, if a natural disaster strikes no one will be complaining about where the money will come from to take care of it.
WOODSTOCK MIKE
June 30th, 2011
10:47 am
@Adam
You mentioned payroll taxes earlier in one of your posts, who do you think pays those? Where do you think that money comes from?
Jimmy62
June 30th, 2011
10:48 am
Stands: People are already going Galt, you just don’t want to see. People are fleeing high-tax states like New York and California for lower tax (and more business friendly) states like taxes. Doctors are retiring early or refusing to take medicare patients because it’s both a pain in the butt and often results in them losing money, and just wait till Obamacare comes in to full effect. We’re going to have a real hard time keeping enough doctors working, and a hard time convincing people to go to med school and gather hundreds of thousands of dollars of student loan debt only to get to the real world and be unable to make even close to enough money to make it worth it. And that’s just medicine. The way the government is making decisions these days, I expect the only professionals who will expand in numbers are lawyers, and they don’t really produce anything, just leach off other peoples’ problems and triumphs. But the people who do produce? Going Galt, not a huge numbers, but it’s creeping up. But I’m sure you will keep your eyes closed and act like paying people less won’t affect their desire to work.
El Jefe
June 30th, 2011
10:48 am
Common Sense,
The big red flag on Debt Ceiling, is when our debt ceiling is greater than our GDP. Imagine that you owed more in credit card debt than you make in a year – oh, wait – those are college students going to school using federal funds – we are paying for little johnny to attend college and binge drink. – just like Congress.
stands for decibels
June 30th, 2011
10:48 am
No more. We have had enough.
…of a man with mildly center-left political views (if you squint hard) in the White House.
We know, we know.
Common Sense
June 30th, 2011
10:49 am
Sorry Peadawg
Adam
June 30th, 2011
10:49 am
Common Sense: That’s such a useless argument. Using it, there would never be a reason NOT to increase the debt limit.
It’s like saying we did it before, so we’ll do it forever.
No more. We have had enough.
How about this: Once you prove you can deal with a budget effectively by increasing revenues RESPONSIBLY, and decreasing spending RESPONSIBLY (at the same time), put your vote where your mouth is and vote to LOWER the debt ceiling as the debt starts to go down.
mm
June 30th, 2011
10:49 am
“had Obama not caved on the “Bush tax cuts” to appease the GOP”
Unfortunately, he gave away 2 years of the tax cuts for 1 year of unemployment. He got schooled.
JB
June 30th, 2011
10:50 am
Obama is pretty much a loser. Nice guy, nice family, but over his head with this job. All presidents have agendas, his is just overly obvious, and the people around him other than Gates and The guy at the CIA are utterly clueless.
WOODSTOCK MIKE
June 30th, 2011
10:51 am
Yeah, that’s the GOP strategy going into the 2012 elections, cause the US to default leading to another financial collapse, you guys shouldn’t believe everything you read and hear on TV…
There isn’t a snowballs chance in hell that the US will default, this is all political grandstanding, I bet the deal is just about wrapped up…
Adam
June 30th, 2011
10:51 am
WOODSTOCK MIKE: You mentioned payroll taxes earlier in one of your posts, who do you think pays those? Where do you think that money comes from?
Mostly it comes from lower to middle class workers, who do not reach the cap of $106k on SS in their entire lifetimes. This statistic can also be found in the same post of Jay’s I mentioned.
Uncle Jed
June 30th, 2011
10:51 am
Bro: “What I’m suggesting is that the border states could get together to implement some kind of program specific to their areas that would benefit them in the short term.”
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I get your point my friend, but I think the feds would challenge any effort undertaken by a state. I think they are in the process of doing just that as I write. I hate to say it but I believe politicians on all sides of all aisles have a use for the unlawful entrants into our nation…thier potential vote.
++++++++++
Out for now.
mm
June 30th, 2011
10:51 am
Based on the stupid comments from the righties, Fox News and Rushbo should be shut down.
There’s a big difference between opinions and facts.
Thomas
June 30th, 2011
10:53 am
“Americans are becoming complacent about the Year 2000 issue”
CNN headling about Y2k.
come out from under your beds- it will be ok.
How about a tax break for US citizens and US institutions to own their own US debt and f*ck the Chinese and Russians. You libs complain about all the hoarding of cash by US companies- there is your solution.
getalife
June 30th, 2011
10:53 am
Instead of cutting and running from the gop debts, lets end the gop party today before they do any more damage to our country.
Adam
June 30th, 2011
10:54 am
WOODSTOCK MIKE: There isn’t a snowballs chance in hell that the US will default, this is all political grandstanding, I bet the deal is just about wrapped up…
I’m placing my bet there also. The GOP knows the first to get hit hard by a default will be Wall Street, their buddies. They won’t let it happen. As long as the Democrats don’t cave on the grandstanding, they will have no choice but to raise the debt limit.
Why have a debt limit?
June 30th, 2011
10:54 am
Why have a debt limit? Every time we get close to it we just raise it. Why don’t we just print as much money as we need, we do not need a debt limit as long as we can print money. We do not have the restraints that Greece has by being part of the EU.
Left wing management
June 30th, 2011
10:54 am
Common Sense: “And Bookman fails to mention the largest holders of the debt, people and businesses in the US. Why is that?”
This is why we’re in BIG trouble, this mentality here.
It doesn’t matter who the holders of the debt are nominally, Common. The damage that will be done will bear on potential FUTURE lenders and that damage will be reflected in a sharp rise in interest rates/cost of borrowing. It’s about the confidence of the markets in our creditworthiness.
Brosephus
June 30th, 2011
10:55 am
UJ
I think the feds would challenge any effort undertaken by a state.
Not if the states worked in conjunction with the feds to undertake such a task. So far, everything has been states knee jerking and the feds responding in like fashion. Instead of attacking each other as adversaries, they need to work together as one.
Common Sense
June 30th, 2011
10:55 am
El Jefe,
We have seen it coming for years. We have ignored the warnings.
We could grow our economy faster than the debt. But this administration and others have strangled American innovation with regulations. So that possibility has been eliminated.
The majority of the things that constitute economic engines in our nation could not even be started today.
Airports, power plants, property development(the list is endless). You cannot start one from scratch today without years of red tape.
Even something as simple as a rail line to Alpharetta will take decades. Widen a lane on a road? Years.
We have lost the edge that was once America.
Progressives have halted progress in America, then wonder why the economic growth has failed to materialize.
Fletch
June 30th, 2011
10:55 am
JB – “the people around him other than Gates and The guy at the CIA are utterly clueless.”
Were you referring to Robert Gates as quoted below?
“I worked for a lot of these guys and this is one of the most courageous calls — decisions — that I think I’ve ever seen a president make.”
Adam
June 30th, 2011
10:56 am
Common Sense: But this administration and others have strangled American innovation with regulations.
Not Intended to be a Factual Statement.
Brosephus
June 30th, 2011
10:57 am
Adam @ 10:54
Wall Street’s buddies with all of them.
Just sayin’….
Common Sense
June 30th, 2011
10:57 am
Left Wing,
if it doesn’t matter, then why is it that China is always mentioned and Americans are not?
Interest rates? Have they not been controlled by the Federal Reserve? Have we not had below market rates for the last five years?
It’s time to get this house in order.
So deal with it. Because it is coming.
Adam
June 30th, 2011
10:58 am
Brosephus: Ok so Democrats are gonna get the donations now since they are the ones behind raising the ebt ceiling all along?
Left wing management
June 30th, 2011
10:58 am
Woodstock Mike: “There isn’t a snowballs chance in hell that the US will default, this is all political grandstanding, I bet the deal is just about wrapped up…”
You apparently haven’t studied your history real closely, Mike. At certain points in a decision process, a collective logic takes over, from which point on things follow their own logic. But I know you conservatives never were much on the ‘collective’ aspect of things …
All I’m saying is, if you think there’s no chance we’ll default, you are truly naive.
josef
June 30th, 2011
10:58 am
Let me see…I’ve maxed a credit card. Unmentionable is p&ssed. Can I just tell him it was (a) the Democrats’ fault, (b) Obama’s fault, (c) the Republicans’ fault, (d) Bush’s fault? I mean, if he can get the limit raised, then there’s no problem so what’s he getting in such a dither about? Send the minimum payment and shut the f up…right? And what does he mean, give me that card and a pair of scissors…spoil sport….
Common Sense
June 30th, 2011
10:59 am
Adam,
It is indeed factual. Ignorance of the facts is no excuse.
JB
June 30th, 2011
11:01 am
Don’t Forget the matching employers do on taxes…unfortunately under Obama, there are millions less employee’s to match……….In fact it’s worse, they have ended up on Government entitlements.
khc
June 30th, 2011
11:02 am
repubs need to take the stick out their bum and if dems come across with big time spending cuts, then revenue increases by closing loopholes and special interest subsidies are in order. it would not hurt my feelings if they taxed the beejeebus out of wall st and hedge fund racqueteers
AmVet
June 30th, 2011
11:03 am
If I could do so legally, I would get a cease and desist order on the use of the word evil.
The only thing evil is how that word is so idiotically used here.
Please, lets move up to ninth grade adjectives, shall we?
And can’t we get back to old school Republispeak like moral equivalency, surrender monkeys and Mission Accomplished?
Thank you…
JB
June 30th, 2011
11:03 am
Read it again Fletch….I LIKE GATES
Fletch
June 30th, 2011
11:03 am
JB – “Don’t Forget the matching employers do on taxes…unfortunately under Obama, there are millions less employee’s to match”
You’re right, so why aren’t these employers putting people back to work instead of sitting on record profits?
Oh wait, maybe it’s that old Supply and Demand concept.
Mighty Righty
June 30th, 2011
11:04 am
Horror of horrors, the Federal Government will have to live within its means. If our credit rating is shot and we can’t borrow money, Hoorah! Like drug addicts, our president and representives will not curb their addiction to spending unless forced to.
Paul Krugman, who the looneys like to quote, said yesterday if the government eliminated the tax breaks allowed “big oil” and eliminated the “corporate jets” write off, the additional revenue to the federal government over the next 100 years, would be less than Obama spent in February! That is why a tax increase to reduce the deficit is simply silly. We have to cut spending. If that means closing the Department of Education, so be it. We cannot tax our way out of the mess Obama has put us in. We must cut spending by 1.5 trillion dollars per year just to stay even!
Left wing management
June 30th, 2011
11:04 am
Common sense: “Interest rates? Have they not been controlled by the Federal Reserve? Have we not had below market rates for the last five years?”
No. The interest rate in question is determined by the MARKETS, i.e. market confidence in the credit worthiness of the borrower. Given the side you’re on, I’d expect you to be real keen on the logic of how markets work.
“It’s time to get this house in order.”
If you’re truly serious about ‘getting our house in order’ in terms of budget, then let’s allow tax rates to return to Reagan-era rates (in other words allow the Bush cuts to expire across the board, on all brackets). Done.
getalife
June 30th, 2011
11:04 am
Yeah, Wall Street and the coc are silent so they can’t use the uncertainty argument anymore.
The uncertainty alone should be an argument but corporate media are giving the gop a free pass as usual.
Tom B
June 30th, 2011
11:05 am
The government fails and the people pay. Time to do the “Ultimate Makeover” in DC!
Dave R.
June 30th, 2011
11:06 am
Despite all the hand wringing and faux poutrage from the left (and Jay, you’re included), THIS is what is going to happen:
A deal will be struck that cuts $1.8 trillion from various sources over the next 10 years.
They will be REAL cuts, not the accounting tricks put over on the GOP in the last round of cuts.
Tax loopholes and certain subsidies will be closed / phased out to provide increased revenues.
No tax rate increases will be included.
The debt ceiling will be raised by $1.2 trillion.
The GOP-led House will vote on this and pass it despite any firm agreement from the administration, and will let the Democrat-led Senate take the hit if it doesn’t get passed there.
Now, for those of you who like to stalk other posters, please save this particular post so that you can see how accurate / inaccurate this prediction will be come August 4th.
So let it be written; so let it be done.
P.S. Hope & Putt ™ will play another 4 rounds of golf and attend 5 fundraisers during this time, all the while chastising Congress for not working harder, further cementing his legacy of being the least qualified person to ever be elected to the office of President.
Jimmy62
June 30th, 2011
11:06 am
Another point to mention… The Dems had full control of Congress for two full years, and if they wanted to do something there was nothing the GOP could do to stop them. But instead of passing a budget, instead of pulling out of a war they said they didn’t like, and instead of looking to make some serious cuts to things we don’t have money for… They broke their own laws by not passing a budget. The primary thing they are supposed to do, and they couldn’t do it when they had full control. So you can blame things on the GOP all you want, but that ignores the fact that the Dems had two full years in which they could do anything they wanted, and they did nothing but spend more and more money.
When they couldn’t pass a budget for two years, they lost any moral authority they might have had on the issue, and that’s why the problems we have now are on them. Because they didn’t do anything about it when they had the chance.
Fletch
June 30th, 2011
11:06 am
JB – “Read it again Fletch….I LIKE GATES”
I did read it, if you have so much respect for Gates, then you need to change the rest of your post referring to the president as an over his head loser. BTW, I’m not an Obama supporter, I just can’t stand partisan crap.
WOODSTOCK MIKE
June 30th, 2011
11:06 am
@Left Wing Management
Thank you for your typical liberal insults. I forgot, you are an economic genius. I guess your money is on the US defaulting, we will see how it shapes out. Thanks again for your childish insults. It’s my opinion that the US will not default, is that alright with you or are conservative not allowed to voice opinions anymore? Wait, I thought liberals were for giving everyone a voice, oh yeah, everyone accept those that don’t think like they do… Hilarious…
BlahBlahBlah
June 30th, 2011
11:07 am
Everyone who keeps talking about default is lying. As long as we have the money to pay interest on the debt, we AREN’T IN DEFAULT.
And there’s nothing that says we HAVE to pay the next few items on the list at 100%. Pay 70% of Medicare/Medicaid for the time being = $15 billion to cover the next 3 items on the list, for example. Temporarily cap Social Security payments for each person at the federal poverty level, and pay the remainder when the dust settles.
There are methods to stretch those dollars. The sky is falling fear-mongering might have worked, except that card already got played back in 2008. We’re not buying it anymore.
stands for decibels
June 30th, 2011
11:08 am
corporate media are giving the gop a free pass as usual
you’re telling me.
my news.google top stories list is a sickeningly Broderian assemblage of “oh tut tut isn’t it a shame that both sides are fighting!” – and a carefully “balanced” batch of editorializing about the Uppity One’s Uppityness in that Uppity Presser he had yesterday.
Which, yes, is the same as giving Gooperville a free pass.
Dave R.
June 30th, 2011
11:08 am
“If I could do so legally, I would get a cease and desist order on the use of the word evil.”
No chance, AmVet. Space Monkeys ARE evil.
And I need the ability to say so.
stands for decibels
June 30th, 2011
11:09 am
Pay 70% of Medicare/Medicaid for the time being
yeah. What could possibly go wrong? it’s not like goo gobs of people’s livelihoods are tied into that particular marketplace or anythin’…
Brosephus
June 30th, 2011
11:09 am
Adam
They’ve both been getting them all along, and you better believe that Wall Street isn’t gonna let anybody take their big money sammich away anytime soon.
stands for decibels
June 30th, 2011
11:10 am
Temporarily cap Social Security payments for each person at the federal poverty level, and pay the remainder when the dust settles.
But seriously, l liked this post a lot better when it was Redneck Convert saying it @ 9.38.
AmVet
June 30th, 2011
11:11 am
We have seen it coming for years. We have ignored the warnings.
Its what cons do: As espoused perfectly by one of the great mental giants of the right wing:
REICHMANN: People think that the administration didn’t see it (the corporate destruction of capitalism/economic implosion of 2008) coming, and they want to know why?
CHENEY: Well, I don’t know that anybody did.
Of course they did, dumas. You just had your head up your ___, as was the case with every other unfolding crisis…
Granny Godzilla
June 30th, 2011
11:11 am
El Jefe
That was a ridiculous post.
Left wing management
June 30th, 2011
11:12 am
Woodstock Mike: “Thank you for your typical liberal insults”
What’s a ‘liberal insult’ ?
Fletch
June 30th, 2011
11:12 am
I agree – but we have been painted into a corner so no longer have a choice. I guess we can just keep doing this over and over though, right?
midtownguy
June 30th, 2011
11:13 am
“Living within our means” would devastate the South. Not a single southern state (I don’t count Florida as southern) pays into the federal government what they get back in services and benefits from the federal government.
If you don’t believe me, just ask someone in California, New York or Massachusetts how they feel about their tax dollars “subsidizing the bible belt?”
Adam
June 30th, 2011
11:13 am
Common Sense: It is indeed factual. Ignorance of the facts is no excuse.
Then you won’t mind backing it up?
williebkind
June 30th, 2011
11:13 am
Do not raise the debt ceiling! Now the progressive liberals will have to justify sensibly instead of emotionally why they need to spend tax payers money. If the event is so important then get the NAACP, ACL, GE, and other devout followers of the DNC to go on money drivers to fund the project. Do not raise the debt ceiling!
ty webb
June 30th, 2011
11:13 am
Dave R,
while you’re at it…who you got winning the superbowl(if there is a season)? and by how much are they going to win?
Brosephus
June 30th, 2011
11:13 am
What could possibly go wrong? it’s not like goo gobs of people’s livelihoods are tied into that particular marketplace or anythin’…
Now you know that gubmint money just evaporates into thin air. Not one damn cent that the gubmint spends end up in the hands of private sector employers and/or employees.
Howdy Hi
June 30th, 2011
11:14 am
What part of debt “LIMIT” do people not understand? Why even have a limit Jay? why not just make the debt ceiling a GAZILLION dollars and then we never have to talk about it?
CUT FREAKIN’ SPENDING!!!!!!! We don’t have a revenue problem – we have a SPENDING problem!!!
AmVet
June 30th, 2011
11:14 am
Fine, Dave, but,
If I work hard and make a lot of money, I am evil.
If I work hard and start a business that grows, I am evil.
If I use a tax break from Obama, (Corporate aircraft) I am evil.
EVIL Corporations and the EVIL government and EVIL rich people?
It’s all just too elementary school for me.
williebkind
June 30th, 2011
11:14 am
midtownguy
June 30th, 2011
11:13 am
We can send all the minorities to their state and let them feed, cloth, and house them instead?
WOODSTOCK MIKE
June 30th, 2011
11:15 am
How about turning the argument the other way, if we know that not raising the debt ceiling will be catastrophic, and we know the GOP will vote to raise the debt limit if there are no tax increases, does this mean that the Democrats would rather cause a catastrophe all in the name of raising taxes?
Fred
June 30th, 2011
11:15 am
@Josef IE 10:58:
Do you have a check book? If you still have checks you still have money. Have pen will travel. Gov’t economics 101.
Same principle lol.
khc
June 30th, 2011
11:16 am
jimmy, apparently you don’t follow too closely, the senate repubs blocked with an unprecedented number of filibusters ie see:http://fightforbetterus.blogspot.com/2010/03/solid-evidence-emerges-of-senate.html
Disgusted
June 30th, 2011
11:16 am
A deal will be struck that cuts $1.8 trillion from various sources over the next 10 years.
They will be REAL cuts, not the accounting tricks put over on the GOP in the last round of cuts.
Tax loopholes and certain subsidies will be closed / phased out to provide increased revenues.
No tax rate increases will be included.
The debt ceiling will be raised by $1.2 trillion.
That will be kicking the can down the road. It would mean that the same crisis would confront us next year. After all, $1.8 trillion over 10 years wouldn’t even cut the annual spending enough to cover half the present deficit. And closing those loopholes would barely make a dent in the revenue shortfall—those would be token revenue increases. But then, I suppose the general public is stupid enough to buy the argument that the problem had been “solved.”
AmVet
June 30th, 2011
11:17 am
“We don’t have a revenue problem – we have a SPENDING problem!!!”
Patently false.
AmVet
June 30th, 2011
11:19 am
“We can send all the minorities to their state and let them feed, cloth, and house them instead?”
Good one, williebeklan!
Granny Godzilla
June 30th, 2011
11:19 am
I see that Mark Halperin has been suspended…..
Dave R.
June 30th, 2011
11:20 am
ty, I can’t predict football (too many injuries and weather affect the outcomes), but I DO know my politics.
Six months before November, 2010, I predicted within 2 seats the House and Senate gains of the GOP. (I picked Harry Reid to lose in NV, but didn’t factor in how bad Angle really was) Picked Christie in NJ, Brown in MA, and McDonnell in VA.
I’m sticking with this debt prediction, though.
jconservative
June 30th, 2011
11:20 am
Generally speaking dead beats who do not pay their bills have a hard time obtaining loans to finance things they find necessary, soldiers, new weapon systems and raises for legislators.
williebkind
June 30th, 2011
11:22 am
AmVet
June 30th, 2011
11:19 am
Aaah! Got to throw that racist card again huh!
Mighty Righty
June 30th, 2011
11:22 am
Fletch
June 30th, 2011
11:03 am
“You’re right, so why aren’t these employers putting people back to work instead of sitting on record profits?”
Fletch, employers don’t trust this administration. I saw a businessman this morning say he has attended numerous information seminars on Obamacare. He said not one knew what all the ramifications are for his business. His best estimate at this time is that Obamacare will increase his cost by 6+ million dollars! He is only one of many who are wondering whether they will even be in business in a few years. This administration bad mouths and demonizes businesses EVERY DAY! Why would any business do anything in the way of hiring or expanding in this climate? Another, in the restuarant business said that the EPA is anti business. These stories are not secret! Obama can’t make a speech without attacking business. Wake up libs, your president hates businessmen.
Dave R.
June 30th, 2011
11:23 am
“That will be kicking the can down the road. It would mean that the same crisis would confront us next year.”
True, Disgusted, but as the old adage goes, you eat an elephant one bite at a time. The crisis is NOW. It has to be addressed NOW. And the fundamental changes needed to get our fiscal house in order cannot be addressed in a CRISIS.
josef
June 30th, 2011
11:23 am
FRED
Yeah! That’s the ticket. Got plenty of checks, just send the Credit Card A folks one and they’ll hush for a few days anyway, right? Then we can make a cash withdrawal from Credit Card B and deposit that and the bank will be happy and we can go shopping on Credit Card C and do our part for getting the consumer economy back on track…makes sense to me…
stands for decibels
June 30th, 2011
11:24 am
I see that Mark Halperin has been suspended…
that’s kinda dickish of MSNBC. Don’t people watch Moaning Joe to hear such insults in the first place?
AmVet
June 30th, 2011
11:24 am
Sorry, williebeklan, I didn’t realize you were referring to white minorities…
stands for decibels
June 30th, 2011
11:24 am
It’s like suspending Babe Ruth for hitting home runs, is what I mean.
Titleist101
June 30th, 2011
11:26 am
Not a tax problem, it’s a SPENDING problem. Why have a debt ceiling when it is never adhered to ? The real problem is a lack of leadership from Washington, amateurs at the top, and a country where half of the population are net-recipients of federal assistance. Taxes on private jets ? Like fingers in the dike, especially considering that Obama has the most expensive private jet in the world !
Get Real
June 30th, 2011
11:26 am
You liberals are just too funny; it is always fun to check the blog a few times during the day in between conference calls to see the same progressive bloggers spouting the same liberal dung….some of us have to really work….enjoy
Doggone/GA
June 30th, 2011
11:26 am
“employers don’t trust this administration”
That’s the excuse they use. The REASON is that they are sitting on record profits without having to hire. So why hire, especially since demand doesn’t force a need for more employees and they are STILL sitting on record profilts?
too little time
June 30th, 2011
11:27 am
Albert Einstein : “Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results..”
It is ALSO utter madness to raise the debt ceiling without substantial and DEEP cuts and expect that we wont be raising the debt ceiling in a few more years! That is doing the same thing again and again and expecting a diffferent result. It is utter madness to demand eventual financial destruction through deficit spending in order to save the near term (this is the game of chicken that the Democrats are playing). It is utter madness not to throw a few increase-tax bones on into the mix of deep cuts in order to stave off the near term disaster (this is the game of chicken that the Republicans are playing).
If one looks, though, at the game that each party is playing, though, the Democrats LOSE. Look, debt limit was $8.9 trillion when Democrats took over Congress in 2006. The debt is now $14 Trillion. In just 5 short years, the Democrats have run the debt up by more than 50%. This is unsustainable, and requires IMMEDIATE cessation. All of America knows this. The deep cuts that Republicans want to impose are necessary. The only way to get them through is to do it now or commit financial suicide. This is the ONLY time that the Republicans are guaranteed to have enough leverage and backing to push the necessary cuts through. If they are unable to succeed, then the U.S. dies a slow economic death like Spain of the 1700s or the U.K of last century, or Japan of the last couple of decades.
Common Sense
June 30th, 2011
11:27 am
@Adam,
Wanna start with Frank-Dodd?
Or what about offshore drilling?
Or the billions spent by Shell to try and drill in Alaska, only to be turned down?
Maybe the Outer Perimeter?
Let’s get really local, ok?
Can you take out a tree in your yard greater than three inches in diameter without approval?
Put a new roof on your home without a permit?
The list is endless.
Now let’s see you show there is less regulation and not more. I’ll wait patiently.
stands for decibels
June 30th, 2011
11:28 am
So why hire, especially since demand doesn’t force a need for more employees and they are STILL sitting on record profilts?
and they can just squeeze existing employees to do more work, and nobody inside the beltway will say boo about it.
It’s not like Americans should have evenings and weekends off like some kind of fru-fru Frenchies.
Dave R.
June 30th, 2011
11:30 am
OK, I know this is off topic, and I know it’s from Neal Boortz, but it’s pretty darned funny as well !
http://www.boortz.com/weblogs/nealz-nuze/2011/jun/30/talkmasters-new-bumper-sticker/
Uncle Jed
June 30th, 2011
11:31 am
Those silly libs; first it’s Weiner and now “a dick”. Call it a Freudian slip.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Mark Halperin suspended over Obama remark on Morning Joe
Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0611/58098.html#ixzz1Qm25BZEe
“MSNBC senior political analyst Mark Halperin was suspended on Thursday by the cable network after he called President Obama “a dick” on a popular morning show and then quickly apologized.
“I thought he was a dick yesterday,” Halperin, who also is an editor-at large for Time, said on Morning Joe, referring to the President’s conduct during his press conference.
A couple of hours later, MSNBC issued a statement, saying, “Mark Halperin’s comments this morning were completely inappropriate and unacceptable. We apologize to the President, The White House and all of our viewers. We strive for a high level of discourse and comments like these have no place on our air. Therefore, Mark will be suspended indefinitely from his role as an analyst.”
Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0611/58098.html#ixzz1Qm0qAs1j
getalife
June 30th, 2011
11:32 am
Imagine if the dems tried to default on the debt.
corporate media would be all over them.
wall street and the coc would be running commercials.
WOODSTOCK MIKE
June 30th, 2011
11:32 am
Looks like revenues certainly were higher under George Bush…
Year GDP-US $ billion Total Direct Revenue-fed $ billion
1996 7838.5 1453.05
1997 8332.4 1579.23
1998 8793.5 1721.73
1999 9353.5 1827.45
2000 9951.5 2025.19
2001 10286.2 1991.08
2002 10642.3 1853.14
2003 11142.1 1782.31
2004 11867.8 1880.11
2005 12638.4 2153.61
2006 13398.9 2406.87
2007 14077.6 2567.98
2008 14441.4 2523.99
2009 14119 2104.99
2010 14660.4 2162.72
Howdy Hi
June 30th, 2011
11:32 am
AmVet……..really? What’s false about it?
Uncle Jed
June 30th, 2011
11:33 am
“We strive for a high level of discourse and comments like these have no place on our air.”
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
That line is the funniest part of the MSNBC comment. Matthews / Maddow / etc….
josef
June 30th, 2011
11:33 am
“We can send all the minorities to their state and let them feed, cloth, and house them instead?”
ZamVet
I know you don’t want to hear it, but there’s a lot more to what willie is not so delicately saying than meets the eye…those fat accounts in those states rest pretty heavily on the policies adopted in the “reconstruction” of the states on the dole today. And those minorities include your much beloved rednecks, crackers, hillbillies and trailer trash as well. There are unresolved historical reasons behind the poverty which marks Uncle Sam’s Oldest Colony as the good liberal Alan Tate referred to it back in the 1920s…
Dave R.
June 30th, 2011
11:34 am
Looks like the fawning, slobbering media which supported this President is beginning to jump ship.
Imam Torquemada excluded, of course.
Joe Mama
June 30th, 2011
11:34 am
Common Sense — “Progressives have halted progress in America”
NIFS
WOODSTOCK MIKE
June 30th, 2011
11:35 am
Pardon the chart being difficult to read…… Does this mean low taxes create higher GDP?
Peadawg
June 30th, 2011
11:36 am
” We strive for a high level of discourse”
It should read: “We strive for a high level of political correctness”
Fixed their typo.
I won’t wait for my thanks from MSNBC.
Brosephus
June 30th, 2011
11:36 am
Like fingers in the dike
Guess I was reading things in a different context then. My bad….
Taxes on private jets ? Like fingers in the dike, especially considering that Obama has the most expensive private jet in the world !
Dumb sh*t such as this should subject people to public floggings or something.
#1 I guess you want the Secret Service to have to spend insane amounts to protect the life of the president, and not just the current one in office.
#2 Do you really want the President to fly commercial? If you think TSA is crazy now, just imagine the TSA with an injection of Secret Service DNA. You’d probably be able to combine flying with your yearly physical by the time you’re done with security.
The list of issues with that statement are endless. I think you’d be much better off sticking your finger in a dike and not an eletrical socket.
Scott
June 30th, 2011
11:36 am
Just a question for everybody. Why even have a debt limit if we are never going to abide by it? Eventually, you have to say enough is enough right?. It isn’t like this debt ceiling came as a shock to anybody. We knew about this ceiling when we last agreed to raise it so why haven’t we done anything? We also knew about it the time before that and the time before that and the time before that etc. etc and we did nothing then besides increase spending. So now you want us to raise it again without making any concessions or stipulations to ensure that we do not have to raise it again and you castigate members of Congress that actually want to follow the law and put an end to this insanity. What is the breaking point for you people?
This situation reminds me of something I see at work all of the time. A person misses work and has been late 10 times in the past year unexcused. They have this family emergency or they have a flat tire on the way to work and gets fired from his job because they “point out.” They try to claim “but it was a family emergency…you don’t care about me or my family. You are a terrible company…wah wah wah.” Nope, it isn’t this instance that we are firing you for. We are firing you for all of the instances prior to this one and this one was one that broke the camel’s back. If you didn’t have the 10 instances before, you would still have a job. This debt ceiling thing is the same exact thing. The government constantly raised it in the past and now others are whining that some do not want to do it again. Too bad. You had your chance to fix it for so long. You knew the consequences and now you must pay. We all must pay unfortunately. Thanks all your greedy politicians for the reckless spending, reps and cons included. And now I will hear “But Bush raised the the debt after coming in with a surplus left by Clinton blah blah blah” or some other misstatement of the facts that have been proven wrong time and time again. Do me a favor before you post that trash, just please answer the question I first asked in this post.
getalife
June 30th, 2011
11:37 am
At some point you cons are going to choose corporate or country.
Some are turning on corporate after the collapse.
Where is your patriotism corporate cons?
Fletch
June 30th, 2011
11:37 am
Hey Mighty, there’s a lot of Grey area in your response. Not knocking it, as my partmners and I own several businesses. However the trust issue is some what of a red herring as well as Obamacare. we have always provided fully paid benefits to our employees (going on 15 years) so the requirements aren’t going to hurt us. In addition, we will be able to take advantage of the tax credit allowed under the HCA regs. We’ve never made business decisions based on who occupied the White House. We simply take care of our people, increase staff when demand calls for it, cut back on expenses (usually starting with our own salaries) when needed, and continue to service our clients and customers the best way we can. I can’t speak for all business owners, but the ones that follow a similiar plan such as ours have not had any worries.
Rich
June 30th, 2011
11:37 am
We doubled spending in the last few years and we can not find a way to cut 10% of the increase spending? WHo ever is against spending cuts is not trying. As for tax increases, not until they show they can manage the money they have. Any tax increase should be a % across all brackets.
yuzeyurbrane
June 30th, 2011
11:37 am
After yesterday’s TV performance, I have decided to accept Obama for what he is which is a law professor/community organizer who prefers discussion and mediation. Yes, he can be very articulate but in a high-minded way that appeals to our brains and the better angels of our nature. A Harry Truman his is not, much less a Churchill. But his opponents remain the Party of No focused on a mission to make his a 1 term Presidency, the country be damned. I still don’t think he quite gets it. More importantly he is not capable of fighting fire with fire. It is just not him and when he tries, as he did yesterday, it comes off as wimpy. So the Democrats just have to learn to deal with it. They need to use some articulate, charismatic surrogates to rally the troops and inject some backbone into our Pres. on the core issues like Soc. Sec. and Medicare. Someone once said, “if you don’t stand for something, you stand for nothing. `”
josef
June 30th, 2011
11:37 am
DAVE
Well, I’ve played the Reconstruction-Imperialism card…reckon a new thread is in the making?
AmVet
June 30th, 2011
11:38 am
“Not a tax problem, it’s a SPENDING problem.”
No matter how often it is parroted, or how it is phrased, this is still a completely false statement.
Adam
June 30th, 2011
11:38 am
Common Sense: Compared to when? What is your time frame for more regulations versus less?
getalife
June 30th, 2011
11:39 am
mark got mad because the President fought back.
mark is a sore loser and should be fired.
Get over it cons.
Common Sense
June 30th, 2011
11:40 am
Dear President Obama,
We have gone over 792 days without a budget. So I know how serious you take this whole process, for actions speak louder than words. It’s just an arbitrary process anyway. It does cause so much bickering and political infighting in Washington.
To reward you, we think you should have even more money with which to spend. There’s no reason you should be penalized or have to make some tough decisions, even if you did take an oath and swear to perform this job to the best of your capabilities.
We know you are doing your best. And we know it was the fault of Bush.
Your ever loving loyal, faithful supporters will back you no matter what happens.
Give us more of the same in 2012.
Keep hitting them straight,
The Faithful Flock
Dave R.
June 30th, 2011
11:40 am
Sorry, josef, but you need to quote an historian first, and specifically a MAJOR historian before you get a new thread.
Common Sense
June 30th, 2011
11:41 am
I ‘ll make it easy for you Adam….
Just point out when there was a time there was less regulation.
Give it your best shot.
Left wing management
June 30th, 2011
11:41 am
Woodstock Mike: “How about turning the argument the other way, if we know that not raising the debt ceiling will be catastrophic, and we know the GOP will vote to raise the debt limit if there are no tax increases, does this mean that the Democrats would rather cause a catastrophe all in the name of raising taxes?”
You’d make a perfect Beltway pundit with that logic! (Hey I hear there’s an opening for Broder’s chair at WaPo.)
Your hypothetical there doesn’t work, Woody. Only ONE side has flatly said that one side of the revenue/spending equation is off the table, thus provoking the crisis. The other side, the Dem side, has bent over backwards to offer concessions. To ask one side to give up EVERYTHING while the other side gives up NOTHING is extortion, pure and simple. So you can’t simply turn the logic around that way. Nice try though.
AmVet
June 30th, 2011
11:42 am
Common Sense — “Progressives have halted progress in America”
Joe Mama, consider the corollary – the anti-progressives have forged progress in America.
????????????????
A new entry into the Dictionary of Made Up Definitions. (Under phrases that say nothing.)
getalife
June 30th, 2011
11:43 am
mark will be on gop state tv fox for more money so it was probably intentional.
Stop listening to talking heads and watch government actions instead.
The gop want to cut and run from their debts like cowards.
That is what is important.
Not talking heads trying to make more money on gop state tv.
Focus people.
Uncle Jed
June 30th, 2011
11:43 am
U.S. drone targets two leaders of Somali group allied with al-Qaeda, official says
The airstrike makes Somalia at least the sixth country where the United States is using drone aircraft to conduct lethal attacks, joining Afghanistan, Pakistan, Libya, Iraq and Yemen.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Watch out Mississippi, you may be next
Back to the topic: How much do these drone strikes cost? Gotta be less than alternatives.
stands for decibels
June 30th, 2011
11:43 am
Dumb sh*t such as this should subject people to public floggings or something.
howsabout into the glue factory’s rendering vat? along with boortz and rush?
pleeeze? it’s really not asking so much.
~~~~~~~~~
Nope, it isn’t this instance that we are firing you for. We are firing you for all of the instances prior to this one
you can practically see “Little Scott” springing to life as this particular line is being typed.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Just point out when there was a time there was less regulation.
How about a time when there were fewer housecats? you know, we have more house cats in the USA than we did 20, 30 years ago. We’ve got more than 76 million now.
Obviously it’s teh kittehz fault.
Left wing management
June 30th, 2011
11:43 am
getalife: “mark got mad because the President fought back.”
I missed the whole thing. What was he irritated with that Obama did?
Dave R.
June 30th, 2011
11:43 am
You know, I catch Morning Joe on MSNBC most mornings (I’ll hit Fox & Friends during commercials), except when that blowhard Donnie Deutch is on. Can’t stand that Jacka$$.
They actually DO have a much higher level of discussion that any other show right now.
Joe Mama
June 30th, 2011
11:44 am
Righty — “Wake up libs, your president hates businessmen.”
Then why’d he dole out hundreds of billions to them with no accountability, no oversight and no conditions to them?
I’d like to be hated like that. Why don’t you send me a check for $25,000 so I can tell others how much you hate me?
stands for decibels
June 30th, 2011
11:44 am
(Hey I hear there’s an opening for Broder’s chair at WaPo.)
you get to dine on quail with Karl Rove. sweeeet deal.
Common Sense
June 30th, 2011
11:45 am
Progressives or anti-progressives: Which ones stopped the Boeing move to South Carolina at the NLRB?
Whacks Eloquent
June 30th, 2011
11:45 am
Mighty Righty,
You bring up cutting Dept of Education. Are they really spending $30 b per month? On what? Last time I checked they run ZERO schools. The states do that. We should start there. Whatever else gets worked out in compromise is fine, but if we are spending over 12 figures a year on an education department that essentially just monitors AYP for the failed NCLB, then I think the dept needs to go. Period. What would be the result? The states would still control all the money going to schools, and there would still be great interstate disparity, so don’t see that it would really hurt. The GOP used to talk about that – what happened there?
getalife
June 30th, 2011
11:45 am
“Just point out when there was a time there was less regulation.”
No common sense.
Global economic collapse.
Duh.
Dave R.
June 30th, 2011
11:46 am
“Focus people.”
Boy, if there ever was a “practice what you preach” moment on this blog, this was it.
Scott
June 30th, 2011
11:46 am
Amvet @1142; You can also put the term “Amvet” under that same entry int he dictionary. based on everything you write, you bring nothing to the table.
AmVet
June 30th, 2011
11:46 am
Howdy,
Time and time and time again, a wide variety of experts have said BOTH cuts and revenue increases are required.
The gap is simply much too vast to be bridged from just one end.
Joe Mama
June 30th, 2011
11:46 am
Doggone — “That’s the excuse they use. The REASON is that they are sitting on record profits without having to hire. So why hire, especially since demand doesn’t force a need for more employees and they are STILL sitting on record profilts?”
This.
getalife
June 30th, 2011
11:47 am
Dave,
Well, you need to focus on your people skills.
Common Sense
June 30th, 2011
11:47 am
It’s called Fascism Joe Mama,
They both hate each other. But they use each other to their own advantage.
Germany did the same thing in the 1930’s. It’s not new.
Uncle Jed
June 30th, 2011
11:48 am
“They actually DO have a much higher level of discussion that any other show right now.”
++++++++++++++++++++
I’d give ‘em a try, but my dial doesn’t go that far to the left
williebkind
June 30th, 2011
11:48 am
josef
June 30th, 2011
11:33 am
You impress me with your knowledge of Georgia history.
The majority population in many counties in south ga are minorities. Many are on the dole for government help and get it. They have everything I mentioned earlier and a free college education. There are programs to retrain those out of work with a hourly rate of $8.50 per hour for 24hrs per week also included is transportation costs and childcare. I could go on but the reality of the dnc slave plantations in the south would just get ignored.
AmVet
June 30th, 2011
11:49 am
No worries, Scott. You’re entitled to your own useless opinions.
williebkind
June 30th, 2011
11:49 am
READ MY LIPS! No new taxes!
Swami Dave
June 30th, 2011
11:50 am
We are spending over $300B while taking in only $170B, yet people saying stop this madness and restrain government to its constitutional role are the ones being maligned.
This is the direct result of an infestation of the dependency culture on this country. This is what happens when entire segments of our population expect other to do FOR that what they are unwilling to do for themselves; electing politicians all too willing to acquire power by legislating it.
Liberals do with Legislation what Muggers do with Guns.
Restrain spending first. After spending restraints are codified, then we can address revenues (any increases of which to be tied to the agreed-to spending restraints). If the dependency brigades and their elected thieves remove the spending constraints, any increased revenues void as well.
This is a spending problem and those expecting others to do for them what they should do for themselves are the ones who own this “sacrifice”.
Here’s a hint to the beneficiaries of Liberal largesse: Stop expecting Taxpayers to fund your rent payments or heat bills or food stamps or health care while you spend your own money on cell phones and cable TV!
-SD.
Uncle Jed
June 30th, 2011
11:51 am
Like fingers in the dike…
Bada; Bada; you out there?
Joe Mama
June 30th, 2011
11:51 am
Brosephus — “#2 Do you really want the President to fly commercial? If you think TSA is crazy now, just imagine the TSA with an injection of Secret Service DNA. You’d probably be able to combine flying with your yearly physical by the time you’re done with security.”
NONONONONONO YOU DO *NOT* WANT THAT.
If you’ve ever flown out of Washington on a fine summer Friday afternoon and had couple dozen Congressmen, Senators and an ex-President on your Delta aircraft, you will know *exactly* why this is a bad idea.
Scott
June 30th, 2011
11:52 am
stand for decibels at 11:43. And your response shows exactly why this country is in this situation. Let me guess you are one of the union scumbags that want to protect his fellow “brothers” regardless of how many times they want to screw the company over, aren’t you? Commit time clock fraud….not a problem. We want a raise. Perform work at half speed because it does not benefit you…not a problem. We want a raise. Walk out on the job and strike because you are unhappy with some stupid BS rule…..not a problem. We want a raise. You are all about me, me, me and sure can care less about anybody else.
WOODSTOCK MIKE
June 30th, 2011
11:52 am
@Left Wing Management
Call if what you wish, the point is if Obama knows that the country will have another financial crisis if he doesn’t take the tax increases off the table are you saying that in order to save face he should allow the country to default?
willie lynch
June 30th, 2011
11:53 am
Common Sense
June 30th, 2011
10:55 am
Has it occured to you that the fastest growing economies in the world are expeiriencing that growth on the backs of slave laborers?
China and India are not fair examples because the playing field is not level. The fact that America and it’s system has had many years to get to this point can’t be overlooked when you try to offer a comparison to these other nations. America has grown to a point where people refuse to work for .25 cents per hour. Workers in America are able to partake in the “dream” of the nations prosperity through home and automobile purchases and all the attendant bling that comes with it.
If we want to compete on a level playing field we would have to cut wages, forgo regulations (further), devalue our currency and many other things that fly in the face of what America claims to be.
You are right it takes a long time to get things going in America. We need high speed rail from coast to coast. We need an extensive rail system here in Georgia. We can have all these things but if we don’t regulate the private builders and contractors how do we know the are using materials that will hold up to the task or designs that are not flawed?
Keep in mind China and India are trying to be like America. We’ve set the standard, so who are we trying to be like.
josef
June 30th, 2011
11:53 am
DAVE
Do the Nashville Agrarian historians count as MAJOR?
Well, how about a MAJOR novelist…
“The past is always a rebuke to the present.”
–Robert Penn Warren
Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)
June 30th, 2011
11:53 am
And those minorities include your much beloved rednecks, crackers, hillbillies and trailer trash as well.
Hey, Nix, why don’t you go for a drive up here on GA 400 today while I’m on it? I resemble that remark.
Left wing management
June 30th, 2011
11:54 am
Doggone/Joe Mama: “That’s the excuse they use. The REASON is that they are sitting on record profits without having to hire. So why hire, especially since demand doesn’t force a need for more employees and they are STILL sitting on record profilts”
Let’s recall the governing principle of the world we currently live in:
People don’t matter. Corporate bottom lines do.
While the pillow is being pressed down over your face to suffocate you, a soft voice tells you:
Shhhhh, just trust us. Let us do what we have to do. Just go with it. It’ll be easier that way.
Corporate profits are all that matter. Human lives don’t. It’s all about CAPITAL, our god.
AmVet
June 30th, 2011
11:54 am
wiiliebeklan, so you WEREN’T referring to white minorities?!
Wow…
“…union scumbags…” – GONG!
stands for decibels
June 30th, 2011
11:55 am
Let me guess you are one of the union scumbags that want to protect his fellow “brothers” regardless of how many times they want to screw the company over, aren’t you?
um… yeah. That’s me. I’m an Outsaaaad Ageetator!
Dave R.
June 30th, 2011
11:55 am
Ahhhhh, the tolerant Democrat Party and their civil discourse:
http://www.bostonherald.com/news/politics/view/20110630binienda_apologizes_for_hitler_comment/srvc=home&position=recent
And that was over requiring lobbyists to wear ID badges!
This from the state who had a U.S. Rep recently call for “breaking heads” and “blood in the streets” when calling for action against WI union reform measures.
getalife
June 30th, 2011
11:56 am
Mike and Scott are is still clinging to the failed ideology.
Closed minded even after the collapse and the state of our economy after years of this failed ideology.
Try something new cons like a original thought.
WOODSTOCK MIKE
June 30th, 2011
11:57 am
@AmVet
You mentioned revenues being the problem, what revenue numbers are you referring to? Looks like revenues have gone up consistently over the past 2 decades and are now only slightly down?
Joe Mama
June 30th, 2011
11:57 am
Swami Dave — Thanks for including the link to your site. I appreciate it because I stop reading or responding to people who are — ahem — linkhookers.
I think you know the term I really mean.
TruthBe
June 30th, 2011
11:58 am
THE CORRUPT OBAMA ADMINISTRATION SHOULD CUT SPENDING PERIOD. The government can start by cutting all salaries of senators, congressmen, the president, and stop wasting money on foreign aid. Remember Nancy Pelosi’s private new jet, Michele Obama’s mutil-million dollar vacations. Maxine Waters get back to my roots african trip were she took over 50 family and friends on the tax payers ticket. The waste is everywhere thru-out the federal and state governments. We should go thru and cut ALL spending and reduce the government. Our Government is too big and too intrusive. Smaller Government more freedoms.
Rich
June 30th, 2011
11:58 am
For those who think that this is not a spending problem. Spending is almost double revenue. If we took all of the money from the billionaires, we could not fund the federal government more 6 months. Revenue is down 15% from 4 years ago, but deficit spending is up 9 times. Over the last 3 years spending has increase well beyond what the country can tax people.
Dave R.
June 30th, 2011
11:58 am
josef, I think you’ve succeeded in reaching the threshold for requiring fresh sheets.
I expect them any time now . . .
Rich
June 30th, 2011
11:58 am
If we use the budget from 2003, we would have a surplus.
AmVet
June 30th, 2011
11:59 am
Redneck, don’t get upset and spill any beer!
Wiilie wants to ship out Those People to California, NY and Massatusetts not you’uns.
And jonix is just a decent compassionate man, who is more prone to coddling terrorists than you or I. (grin!)
Left wing management
June 30th, 2011
11:59 am
Woodstock Mike: “Call if what you wish, the point is if Obama knows that the country will have another financial crisis if he doesn’t take the tax increases off the table are you saying that in order to save face he should allow the country to default?”
Yes, that’s exactly what I’m saying. He should say: there WILL be tax increases. Period. And then see what happens. (That’s what Bill Clinton in effect did, and we saw what happened then.)
As in the film The Usual Suspects, sometimes the only thing to do in a hostage crisis is to sacrifice the hostage. Remember Kayser Soze?
WOODSTOCK MIKE
June 30th, 2011
12:00 pm
@getalife
Yeah, looks like the current strategy sure is doing the trick!! Oh yeah, I forgot, we need to give it more time, right? And, it’s Bush’s fault!!
RB from Gwinnett
June 30th, 2011
12:00 pm
Not much on that list I’d care about stopping payments to. Do you suppose if we cut off free food some of the “less fortunate” might be able to work in the field for more than an hour to feed themselves and their families?
Sounds like to me if they want to prevent all this bad stuff from happening, the Dems better get busy finding some serious cuts and stop dragging their feet and making excuses. This nickle and dime crap with the name calling and scare tactics ain’t cuttin’ it.
getalife
June 30th, 2011
12:01 pm
The gop cutting and running from their debts caused by their failed ideology should close the book on their failed ideology.
You need a new party and a new ideology cons.
Get to work.
WOODSTOCK MIKE
June 30th, 2011
12:01 pm
@LWM
Yes, great movie!! I guess my response would be revenues were much higher under George Bush than Clinton so how would you explain that?
Common Sense
June 30th, 2011
12:01 pm
@Willie Lynch,
Then could you explain the unemployment levels of less than 5% under the last President?
Logical Dude
June 30th, 2011
12:01 pm
Mighty Righty: 11:04: If our credit rating is shot and we can’t borrow money, Hoorah!
Umm, you DO realize this would cause Global chaos and meltdown, right?
::eyeroll::
Scott
June 30th, 2011
12:02 pm
getalife. What is your limit? When do you say “enough is enough?” It’s 14.2 Trilion now. 18 trillion okay? 30T? No no no. how about we just get wild and go to 100 trillion dollars. Maybe that is not enough. What about 1 quadrillion? No. that number sounds rather small. let’s make it 20 quadrillion. Regardless of the number and its size, it does not mean squat to you anyways and that is just sad.
getalife
June 30th, 2011
12:02 pm
Mike,
We lost a decade.
Yes, it will take more time.
Common sense.
WOODSTOCK MIKE
June 30th, 2011
12:02 pm
@getalife
I guess you aren’t watching Obama’s approval numbers very closely, just like John Calipari’s recruits at Kentucky, he’s gonna be a one and done!
josef
June 30th, 2011
12:02 pm
Redneck
No, you don’t resemble that remark, imho. You don’t come anywhere near it.
Willie
You and I are no doubt poles apart on just about every issue that comes up, and I wouldn’t exactly phrase things the way you do nor afree with you on the whyfor of the situation or what to do about it, but on one thing we are agreed, the world outside the perimeter is one where the minority populations (black, white, brown and shades in between) are determined by an economic status restive in historical realities we simply do not want to address…
Joe Mama
June 30th, 2011
12:02 pm
LWM — “Corporate profits are all that matter. Human lives don’t. It’s all about CAPITAL, our god.”
Every time some conservative poster posts some jabber about ‘corporate uncertainty,’ I click on a link I keep on several of my PCs. It’s a chart showing the DJIA over the last three years, and if you follow the market, you know which way it’s been trending.
For all that alleged uncertainty, corporate profits and market performance certainly do seem to be doing well. Send some of that kind of uncertainty to my house, and let me know what day it’ll be delivered so I can be there to sign for it.
Soothsayer
June 30th, 2011
12:03 pm
The Entire State Of Texas Has been Declared A Natural Disaster
“This is a disaster. This is a train wreck. We’ve never seen anything like this before. People are scared, they don’t know what to do and what’s going to happen to them next.”
– Scott Harmon, farmer
“We are currently ranked as the third-worst drought on record in Texas. But each passing day moves us closer to the number one year. It is a true calamity. The impact is heartbreaking,” says Staples. “We’ve had over two million acres of dry land cotton being declared 100% abandoned. We have livestock producers that are liquidating their herds, something they’ve spent their entire lifetime building up. It’s just a dreadful set of circumstances.”
– Todd Staples, Texas Agricultural Commissioner
WOODSTOCK MIKE
June 30th, 2011
12:03 pm
@Logical Dude
So you do realize that Obama has no choice but to take the tax increases off the table, correct?
getalife
June 30th, 2011
12:05 pm
Scoot,
Surrendering to the gop debt is not a option.
We will not commit suicide like you cons want.
Debate the budget for cuts but do not steal more jobs.
It is best to cut when the economy is strong not when it is collapsing.
Common sense.
Rich
June 30th, 2011
12:05 pm
Woodstock Mike, Revenues were flat during the first 5 years of Bush compared to Clinton. The 3 years showed and increase in revenue, but an increase in spending also. Look at who controlled congress, not the White House. They control spending.
TruthBe
June 30th, 2011
12:05 pm
The democrats are LIARS. Why because they have controlled the senator, congress, and presidency and haven’t even produce a buget for the last 3 years. Obama and the corrupt dishonest democrats WHERE is your buget that you are legally required to create and bring out by law? Democrats = spend and tax ALL Americans to death. They live the good life where we the people ( suckers ) pay for it. Isn’t that so Michele wish you were here in Africa Obama.
Gator Joe
June 30th, 2011
12:06 pm
Jay,
This issue is just another example of Right Wing mindless opposition (some it race-based), except this one will carry more serious consequences. The Republican hypocrites, many of whom willingly voted to raise the debt ceiling under Republican presidents, now want to use extortion in in exchange for their votes. What is amazing in all this are average, though ignorant, Americans who unwittingly support their actions. Still more amazing, are the Republicans threatening our country in order to protect their wealthy benefactors who do not pay their fair share of taxes.
Where were all of these deficit [Chicken] Hawks during Bush/Cheney while they were causing the current problems we have? Answer: in lockstep with them.
WOODSTOCK MIKE
June 30th, 2011
12:06 pm
George W Bush was the most prolific tax collector in our nation’s history. During Clinton’s 8 years,$5.66 trillion was collected. During Bush’s 8 years,$7.45 trillion was collected.
Howdy Hi
June 30th, 2011
12:07 pm
AmVet…….so let’s simplify this a bit. Until the Obama Adm proves that they can be stewards of our tax revenue – adding more revenue (aka higher taxes) will just give them a blank check to spend more money. Until that happens….nothing else matters. Maybe we should start with the First Lady’s 750k-1M trip to South Africa…..I’m just sayin’.
getalife
June 30th, 2011
12:08 pm
Mike,
The only poll that matters is the 12 election.
Steven Q. Stanley
June 30th, 2011
12:08 pm
Jay, do you have kids, how much debt are you willing to leave them?
khc
June 30th, 2011
12:09 pm
they need to set debt limit not in absolute dollars, but rather the debt service is limited as a % of total budget….this has served ga well as our bonds have historically been triple a and seems to me a better guide than an absolute amount that has to be argued almost every year….
Scott
June 30th, 2011
12:09 pm
get a life
“Surrendering to the gop debt is not a option.” No idea what you are talking about there.
“We will not commit suicide like you cons want.” Apparently, you want to given that you voted for Obama and that you just want to repeat the same old failed policies that have yielded an economy that is about to go into a double dip.
“Debate the budget for cuts but do not steal more jobs.
It is best to cut when the economy is strong not when it is collapsing.” The only way that jobs will not be stolen and the economy will be strong is to get Obama out of there.
“Common sense.” Something you have NONE of.
Dave R.
June 30th, 2011
12:09 pm
And just remember who will be blamed for this if they miss the debt ceiling window – Democrats.
Because the House WILL pass something and send it to the Senate.
Winning!
getalife
June 30th, 2011
12:11 pm
The dems agree to 2 trillion in cuts so lets put the lie the dems will not cut spending to rest.
The gop is playing politics with a default for the election.
The gop are party over country
josef
June 30th, 2011
12:11 pm
Okay…my comments were in response to willie’s response to midtownguy’s comment as to tell the people in those rich states why they should be sending some cash to the Bible Belt…why? Does the word resititution ring a bell? It’s payback for the failure to effect land reform and true reconstruction when the victors left precisely these territories a burnt to the ground wasteland without a pot to piss in or a window to throw it out of, took the booty and went back home to let it wallow in its squalor…on, they trampled out the vintage where the grapes of wrath were stored, all right…yeah, they owe something…
stands for decibels
June 30th, 2011
12:11 pm
I guess you aren’t watching Obama’s approval numbers very closely
He’s pretty much running neck-and-neck with that utter political failure Ronald Reagan at this point in his first term.
http://www.gallup.com/poll/124922/Presidential-Approval-Center.aspx
Yeah, you can probably write him off.
willie lynch
June 30th, 2011
12:11 pm
Common Sense
June 30th, 2011
12:01 pm
They didn’t remain that way did they? Explain to me the need for tax cuts under the previous President when the economy was in good shape and the people had prospered under the tax obligation that was in place.
Joe Mama
June 30th, 2011
12:12 pm
Mike — “George W Bush was the most prolific tax collector in our nation’s history. During Clinton’s 8 years,$5.66 trillion was collected. During Bush’s 8 years,$7.45 trillion was collected.”
And yet Clinton left office with notable budget surpluses, while Bush left office with large annual deficits, thereby increasing the national debt.
Would you rather be the guy who makes $40K a year but whose house and car are paid off or the guy who makes $100K and is barely keeping a roof over his head because he’s carrying so much debt?
Dave R.
June 30th, 2011
12:12 pm
“What is amazing in all this are average, though ignorant, Americans who unwittingly support their actions.”
Ahhh. The typical liberal “we’re too stupid” argument. Thanks, Gator. Took you long enough to play THAT card.
Scott
June 30th, 2011
12:12 pm
Howdy Hi…Careful. now the libs will just say :”But Laura Bush spent $x to go to Y” They do not realize that we want ALL of them to stop the frivolous spending. Rep Dem Ind….we want them all to stop it. Libs just only want to focus on blaming Reps.
AmVet
June 30th, 2011
12:12 pm
Several problems, Mike.
The revenue load is being borne artificially by a relatively small number of “beneficiaries”.
Eliminate the hundreds (Hell, thousands!) of frivolous “tax breaks”, contrived “exemptions” and counter-productive loopholes for BIG business and revenues would skyrocket. To the tune of about $4,000,000,000.00 per year, for one industry alone! BIG OIL.
Multiply that by X for BIG PHARMA and BIG AGRIBUSINESS AND BIG, BIG BIG DEFENSE AND BIG, BIG, BIGGER BANKS and you start realizing the scale of these giveaways. (Well, they’re not really giveaways since YOU are paying for them, directly or indirectly.)
Throw in at least another $3,000,000,000.00 from the states every year and it ain’t chicken feed.
The revenue shortfall is gargantuan, especially in light of the Pentagon’s budget of $700,000,000,000.00 per year. Not counting secret budgets not disclosed for “National Security” reasons…
Peter
June 30th, 2011
12:13 pm
George Bush and the GOP had a great idea…send everyone $600…..that got the economy going ?
Let’s start wars and cut taxes…..that got the economy going, and got us cheap gas correct ?
Don’t raises taxes for the rich a cent……they are going to be kind to the poor !
Joe Mama
June 30th, 2011
12:13 pm
Dave R — “Because the House WILL pass something and send it to the Senate.”
My dog will pass something, too, but I think I’d get in trouble if I sent it to the Senate.
Brosephus
June 30th, 2011
12:15 pm
dB @ 11:43
Dave R.
June 30th, 2011
12:15 pm
“He’s pretty much running neck-and-neck with that utter political failure Ronald Reagan at this point in his first term.”
And the difference in using analysis rather than a single statistic in making a point, is that Reagan’s economy improved over the following year.
Thus far there are no signs of similar improvement in Hope & Putt’s ™ .
Scott
June 30th, 2011
12:16 pm
Joe mama… “And yet Clinton left office with notable budget surpluses,” Prove it. This is quite possibly one of the biggest lies you libs continue to repeat over and over again. He did not leave us with a surplus at all. He stole from Social Security to make the impression of a surplus. Ever heard of intergovernmental transfer. I am so sick of hearing that stupid lie told over and over and over again.
Dave R.
June 30th, 2011
12:16 pm
I hear the cages rattling at the Yerkes Primate Center again . . .
josef
June 30th, 2011
12:17 pm
JOE MAMA
“My dog will pass something, too, but I think I’d get in trouble if I sent it to the Senate.”
But if you can get the same product from a bull or a horse and send it, they’ll be glad to get it. They can always use some more…
cosby smith
June 30th, 2011
12:17 pm
Liers figure anf figures lie….the truth is the US Government is Broke and you cannot borrow your way out of this mess. the solution is to cut spending..perhaps we can start by those mean corporate Jets used in Gopvernment like Air Force 1 and Air Force 2 used by the first Lady – along with other jets she takes along and her entire service personel+ family members. then we can cut pension benefits and medical benefits for congress and the white house. then we can take their campaign war chest and use it to help with the debt. then we can tax at a 75% rate all money raised in campaigns by both parties..now that is a start…sorry folks, the truth hurts and there will be pain and borrowing more is not the solution..but Jay likes that so why do we not use his credit card!!!
Joe Cool~"PRESIDENT Obama" Tells Birthers,"Thanks For Playing BI+CHES"
June 30th, 2011
12:17 pm
THe CONs are all over th place with this mess. Political theater! The Admin. has 2 trillon on the table in cuts and even though i would want more, the Cons wont budge a bit on the taxes. There is no compromise with them. The Prez needs to invite them all to a meeting, live stream via C-Span and give them the business like in HC reform LIVE, so that we all can see that the CONs arent giving on anything. The CONs need watch out, because if push comes to sholve, the Prez constitutionally might be able to make a case to side-step Congress.
Cons complain about the 40 something percent that pay no taxes, yet in the next sentence say we dont have a revenue problem…which is it Cons?
Joe Mama
June 30th, 2011
12:17 pm
Dave — “And the difference in using analysis rather than a single statistic in making a point, is that Reagan’s economy improved over the following year.”
“Thus far there are no signs of similar improvement in Hope & Putt’s ™”
Maybe President Obama should use the Reagan strategy of raising taxes 11 times, then.
This, Dave, is the difference between mere analysis and analysis with *context.*
willie lynch
June 30th, 2011
12:18 pm
Joe Mama
June 30th, 2011
12:12 pm
Sound, logic seems to fall on deaf ears when partisan talking points are the only thing you seem to want to hear.
getalife
June 30th, 2011
12:18 pm
Dave,
“Ahhh. The typical liberal “we’re too stupid” argument.”
The argument is valid when cons will vote to end their own Medicare and SS.
Rewarding the gop for playing politics with a default with your vote adds to this argument.
Voting party over country seals the deal.
TruthBe
June 30th, 2011
12:18 pm
stands for decibels, Obama isn’t the GREAT President Ronald Reagan. Obama is a corrupt pay tp play liberal progressive Chicago thug union / community organizer racist muslim slime ball. ANYBODY in 2012 but obama.
Mighty Righty
June 30th, 2011
12:19 pm
Doggone/GA
June 30th, 2011
11:26 am
“employers don’t trust this administration”
That’s the excuse they use. The REASON is that they are sitting on record profits without having to hire. So why hire, especially since demand doesn’t force a need for more employees and they are STILL sitting on record profilts?
Where do liberals get the idean that a business is obligated to hire people? The ignorance of that thought cannot be comprehended.
Rich
June 30th, 2011
12:20 pm
Under Clinton, the republican congress provide budgets for Clinton to sign that showed spending less than revenue. Under Bush the big spending years there were deocratic congresses sending will with large deficit spending. Bush should have vetoed those bills. But Bush was not that conservative.
Dave R.
June 30th, 2011
12:20 pm
They need better cages at the Yerkes Primate Center.
Joe Cool~"PRESIDENT Obama" Tells Birthers,"Thanks For Playing BI+CHES"
June 30th, 2011
12:21 pm
“Liers figure anf figures lie”
Is that slang?
Left wing management
June 30th, 2011
12:21 pm
Rich: “Under Clinton, the republican congress provide budgets for Clinton to sign that showed spending less than revenue. Under Bush the big spending years there were deocratic congresses sending will with large deficit spending. Bush should have vetoed those bills. But Bush was not that conservative.”
Uh huh.
Say, what’s a “liberal”, Rich?
Adam
June 30th, 2011
12:21 pm
Common Sense: You made the claim. The burden of proof is yours. The claim I made in relation to yours was that it’s not true. Prove it. Tell me what time frame you think that there are more regulations, and what administrations added those regulations, and what those regulations were and why they stifle things. That’s really what I am asking for. If you want me to believe you you’re going to have to convince me you’re right, and I will need more than you have given.
RB from Gwinnett
June 30th, 2011
12:21 pm
Scott, you’re wasting your time debating with getaclue. You may as well discuss particle physics with a turtle. Waste of time. She actually thinks everything good on this planet is a result of Barak Obama and everything bad is an R’s fault. Pointless and clueless.
khc
June 30th, 2011
12:22 pm
ain’t it weird the party responsible for starting the current debt crisis takes a no holds barred position on negotiating a reasonable solution
getalife
June 30th, 2011
12:22 pm
I accept your surrender Dave.
Dave R.
June 30th, 2011
12:23 pm
“You may as well discuss particle physics with a turtle.”
OK, I don’t care who you are, that’s funny!
getalife
June 30th, 2011
12:23 pm
RB,
I bash both sides.
You know that.
Stop whining lil girl.
AmVet
June 30th, 2011
12:23 pm
Peter, LOL.
That $600 sure changed my life! Jeez, talk about pandering to the desperate…
And I agree with Scott. The Clinton “surplus” was just “creative accounting”, i.e. cooking the books to make them look good…
TruthBe
June 30th, 2011
12:23 pm
getaLife, You mean democrats don’t you because they are the ones that vote only party lines and skin color. 98% of all Black voters voted for Obama. All Democrat senators and congressmen have only voted yea for their party’s bills. They NEVER cross the party lines on major bills. So please get your head out of your ass and listen to the true facts.
Left wing management
June 30th, 2011
12:23 pm
TruthBe 12:05, I think there’s medication for that.
stands for decibels
June 30th, 2011
12:24 pm
ladies and germs, I give you…
corrupt pay tp play liberal progressive Chicago thug union / community organizer racist muslim slime ball.
the GOP base(st).
.
Adam
June 30th, 2011
12:24 pm
Rich: Under Bush spending went up immediately. This continued for the 6 years Republicans had control of both houses. If you can show me how Democrats CHANGED the trend in the final two years of Bush, rather than continued it, then I will buy into the idea that Democrats are worse spenders.
I really think the problem is that we started to get things under control, ideologues got control and reversed that, and then Washington got super-infected with the idea that we can’t solve this problem at all now.
Common Sense
June 30th, 2011
12:25 pm
@Willie,
if that is the best argument you can make, I suggest you go back to the drawing board.
It’s immoral to enslave someone and have them work for you.
Yet that is what the Federal Government does on behalf of 46.4% of the population.
No moral outrage there for some reason.
People do not live within their means. Don’t worry. We will bail you out.
Government does not operate within it’s means. Don’t worry. We will just keep spending and borrowing until we cannot. We do not need to change our behavior.
Because we do all of this because we care. Loans for college, bailouts for Chrysler and GM and Bank of America….
We care.
The bill is coming do for the We Care program. And now people do not like the totals they see.
If we just dealt with it we could move on to other things. But we would rather drag it out.
So here we are.
792 days without a budget.
Not one progressive here has come out and said how even this should have been handled differently.
Disgusted
June 30th, 2011
12:25 pm
Stocks in rally mode—CNN/Money
Yup, that uncertainty is a killer.
Rich
June 30th, 2011
12:26 pm
Left wing management – Bush was middle of the road. Obama is liberal. Go for Ron Paul if you really want conservative.
BADA BING
June 30th, 2011
12:26 pm
Uncle Jed….sorry to let you down on the ‘fingers’ thing, I was out in the garage working on my car. Thanks for thinking of me, Hey to Jethro!
williebkind
June 30th, 2011
12:26 pm
AmVet
June 30th, 2011
11:59 am
“Wiilie wants to ship out Those People to California, NY and Massatusetts not you’uns.”
Well, I see I must be more yankee in my words when talking to you. NO, I did not say we must or should ship out people to those states. I was inferring that if those states had the same populations on the dole as Georgia then the local governments would call on federal aid to subsidise the costs for the local taxpayers thus raising their levels of federal aid. You do live in your own world.
TruthBe
June 30th, 2011
12:26 pm
Liberal democrats are liars and have NO morals. And so do their voters.
AmVet
June 30th, 2011
12:26 pm
In spite of the Hollywood accolades, Ronald Reagan was most definitely NOT a great president.
His record of failures and successes is VERY mixed.
He was a middling president propped up by Madison Avenue PR gurus…
getalife
June 30th, 2011
12:26 pm
Speaking of turtles, mcconnell looks like a turtle.
He is talking to our President and that might end his career.
This is how pathetic gop politics is today.
La la land.
DBCOOPER
June 30th, 2011
12:27 pm
The fact that we are here today to debate raising America’s debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the U.S. Government can’t pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government’s reckless fiscal policies. … Increasing America’s debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that ‘the buck stops here. Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better.
Barak Obama
williebkind
June 30th, 2011
12:28 pm
josef
You hit the nail on the head. We are worlds apart in beliefs and mores however the truth is constant for everyone.
Brosephus
June 30th, 2011
12:28 pm
98% of all Black voters voted for Obama.
And to think, it was only 95% at the time of the election.
khc
June 30th, 2011
12:29 pm
truthbe needs to change his moniker
bobfromacworth
June 30th, 2011
12:29 pm
Lies, Damn Lies and Statistics, I tell ya!
Paulo977
June 30th, 2011
12:29 pm
Clinton says
“http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/bill-clinton-exclusive-proposes-debt-impasse-deal-fears/story?id=13963218
TruthBe
June 30th, 2011
12:30 pm
stands for decibels and left wing management, Both of you are so lost. You should stop drinking the obamajuice and eating the government cheese.
Mighty Righty
June 30th, 2011
12:31 pm
Logical Dude
June 30th, 2011
12:01 pm
Mighty Righty: 11:04: If our credit rating is shot and we can’t borrow money, Hoorah!
Umm, you DO realize this would cause Global chaos and meltdown, right?
::eyeroll::
Please explain how the U.S. not borrowing money will cause Global chaos and meltdown. I can hardly wait to hear your explanation.
Rich
June 30th, 2011
12:31 pm
Adam, in there early Bush year it went up at about 5% later it went up at 8 and 9%.
David
June 30th, 2011
12:31 pm
OK, enough doom and gloom and sarcasm. We can’t default, to much at risk. But why is it the fault of those who oppose more debt, instead of those who insist on spending more than we have? If this is what it takes to get a serious commitment to stop overspending the federal budget, then this is what it takes. Both sides know that revenues have to increase, but if they are increased enough to balance the budget the economy will be crippled. There have to be cuts to go along with those increases. At least the debt ceiling is forcing a conversation. For too long this has been an automatic pass.
williebkind
June 30th, 2011
12:31 pm
The Florida governor is doing his part to bring the budgets under control. He just signed a new legislation for the Florida Workforce Innovation that will save millions each year. Have not heard much from other states yet!
RB from Gwinnett
June 30th, 2011
12:32 pm
“792 days without a budget.”
Can any of you liberals explain how that equates to leadership in any way, shape, or form? Especially when you realize they had completed control of all 3 branches of govt. until January of this year?
Do you even care or is the (D) after their name all that matters?
TruthBe
June 30th, 2011
12:32 pm
Brosephus You forgot to count you corrupt black ass. And khc the truth will set you free.
josef
June 30th, 2011
12:32 pm
Brosephus
@ 12:28
getalife
June 30th, 2011
12:34 pm
David,
No, that is what the budget debate is for.
New to politics?
AmVet
June 30th, 2011
12:34 pm
willie, spin away, but your own words damn you:
We can send all the minorities to their state and let them feed, cloth (sic), and house them instead?
You are just one of several far right wingers here who are obsessed with the failings of minorities. Until I read where you excoriate whites with the same constancy and vigor, I am not fooled.
A great minority American, quoting another great member of a minority once said, ““Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free.”
Joe Mama
June 30th, 2011
12:35 pm
Scott — “Joe mama… “And yet Clinton left office with notable budget surpluses,” Prove it.”
Not a problem. Start here. You may want to put on your thinking cap and your reading glasses, because there’s homework involved.
http://www.cbo.gov/doc.cfm?index=2&type=0&sequence=5
“This is quite possibly one of the biggest lies you libs continue to repeat over and over again.”
It’s right there in black and white, Scott.
“He did not leave us with a surplus at all. He stole from Social Security to make the impression of a surplus. Ever heard of intergovernmental transfer. I am so sick of hearing that stupid lie told over and over and over again.”
Facts — they’re like Black Flag bug spray to cons.
getalife
June 30th, 2011
12:36 pm
Pelosi and our President presented budgets that are doa in corrupt congress RB.
What else you got?
Brosephus
June 30th, 2011
12:36 pm
TruthBe
You need to first learn how to use English correctly if you wish to engage me with your ungamely debate. Second, you have no clue who I voted for, so to suggest such shows how much of a dumbass you really are. If I were you, I’d quit with the personal insults before Jay gives you the Bobby Cox treatment. And quit looking at my ass…..
Rich
June 30th, 2011
12:37 pm
We should create a fund that everyone who thinks we should have higher taxes can contribute. I know PA tried it and receive less than $100,000, but if we could collect a small amount from all those who say they want higher taxes, we should be able to balance the budget. If not we cut spending. My guess is those who want higher taxes, want others to pay it.
Doggone/GA
June 30th, 2011
12:37 pm
“Can any of you liberals explain how that equates to leadership in any way”
Well, as I see it, all of you “it’s a spending problem” should be HAPPY there’s been no budget voted on. No budget means no new spending. It means we have to work within the confines of temporary funding bills, which can only continue spending at current levels. Sounds like a win-win to me.
Joe Mama
June 30th, 2011
12:37 pm
Willie Lynch — “Sound, logic seems to fall on deaf ears when partisan talking points are the only thing you seem to want to hear.”
I’m open to sound logic if any is offered. Unfortunately, talking points from *both* sides seem to be in all-too-generous supply.
WOODSTOCK MIKE
June 30th, 2011
12:38 pm
@Joe Mama
Do you agree that both GDP and federal tax revenues both increased almost every year under George Bush? And did you mention debt levels under Bush in your comments? Because we now carry more debt then ever and the projections for the next several years are astonishing…
Left wing management
June 30th, 2011
12:39 pm
Rich: “Bush was middle of the road. Obama is liberal. Go for Ron Paul if you really want conservative.”
No, Ron Paul is the most liberal of them all. Hence, libertarian. See?
See this is the proof of just how out of whack the American political lexicon.
getalife
June 30th, 2011
12:39 pm
When facts are ignored there is no honest debate.
Joe Mama
June 30th, 2011
12:39 pm
Righty — “Where do liberals get the idean that a business is obligated to hire people? The ignorance of that thought cannot be comprehended.”
Where do conservatives get the idea that society must coddle businesses and give them all sorts of gifts and emoluments when businesses won’t put more members of their host society to work?
Baby Suggs
June 30th, 2011
12:41 pm
ty webb @9:31: Increasing America’s debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that “the buck stops here.” Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better.”
Just curious but, where WERE YOU when that very same argument was mentioned during the Dark Years? (Bush/Cheney). I mean were you this upset when Bush took another big loan from China so that he could finance another war in the Middle East? Were you this upset when Cheney said that “deficits don’t matter” or were you giving the “thattaboy” pat on the back for his “insight” into the American economy? Where were you when Moderates and Dems were yelling about this very same issue just 4 short years ago? Did you just wake up from out of hte twilight zone or something?
Rich
June 30th, 2011
12:41 pm
Left Wing Management – Liberal and Libertian are not equal.
Joe Mama
June 30th, 2011
12:41 pm
TruthBe — “Liberal democrats are liars and have NO morals. And so do their voters.”
Dude, get your money back for that Dale Carnegie course you took, because it clearly didn’t take.
Alabama Communist
June 30th, 2011
12:42 pm
It is suicidal madness to even contemplate such a step* Jay
Right! That means you will have to charge your children future on a private Mastercard funded by Goldman Sachs..Have you consider a job as a funeral director for the Banks?
Granny Godzilla
June 30th, 2011
12:42 pm
Rich
and my guess is that those who want lower taxes are afraid of putting their butts on the line.
don’t want to pay higher taxes, dont. then take personal responsibility
for those actions
like the REAL Tea Party.
unless of course you are afraid to….
AmVet
June 30th, 2011
12:43 pm
Friends, Romans and countrymen, don’t feed the Truthfree troll…
TruthBe
June 30th, 2011
12:44 pm
Brosephus, Why? You can’t handle the truth? As for telling Jay on me so what, can’t defend you lies. You have made many personal attacks on many different bloggers including me.
RB from Gwinnett
June 30th, 2011
12:44 pm
“Pelosi and our President presented budgets that are doa in corrupt congress RB”
Pelosi, Reid, and Obama didn’t pass a budget WHEN THEY HAD COMPLETE CONTROL and a near super majority you moron. Only a complete effing idiot could blame that on R’s.
Joe Mama
June 30th, 2011
12:44 pm
Mike — “Do you agree that both GDP and federal tax revenues both increased almost every year under George Bush?”
Do you agree that deficit spending *also* increased under President Bush and that he ran the wars off-budget (using “emergency” supplemental spending measures to pay for them each year)?
“And did you mention debt levels under Bush in your comments? Because we now carry more debt then ever and the projections for the next several years are astonishing…”
I’d be more than happy to show you the debt numbers for Clinton, Bush and Obama. You might be surprised at how close Bush’s and Obama’s deficit spending habits actually are.
josef
June 30th, 2011
12:45 pm
BROSEPHUS
Don’t let TruthBe get under your skin too much. He’s just in the same minstrel show as Redneck from what I can gather…
BADA BING
June 30th, 2011
12:45 pm
Why don’t we borrow as much money as we can from China, and then don’t return their calls? It has worked for the dozens of people that owe me money.
Misty Fyed
June 30th, 2011
12:46 pm
Washington Post defines the debt ceiling as The legal limit on borrowing by the federal government. A legally determined limit on how much politicians can borrow. It has been raised over 100 times since initially enacted. In 1980, it was $1 trillion. It rose to $6 trillion in the 90s. Under GW the debt increased $4.36 trillion in 8 years. Under Obama its risen $3.9 trillion in 3 years.
Jay’s partially right in declaring madness. The only true madness is how many of you want to authorize these politicians to borrow even more money without any true effort to change spending habits.
TruthBe
June 30th, 2011
12:46 pm
AmVet, wasn’t speaking to you. Have Fun.
Uncle Jed
June 30th, 2011
12:47 pm
BADA BING
June 30th, 2011
12:26 pm
Yugo?
Bodine waved as his mouth was full.
Recon (2nd.and 3rd.)
June 30th, 2011
12:47 pm
The lib’s are utterly mad about Obama.
Our clueless President
June 30th, 2011
12:47 pm
WHERE YOU GUYS BEEN? I’VE BEEN ON THE GOLF COURSE WAITING FOR YOU CONGRESSMEN TO DO SOMETHING! I COULD HAVE STEPPED UP AND BEEN A LEADER BUT MY POLICIES ARE NOT WORKING AND NEVER WILL…. BUT MY PLAN AS BEING THE GRAND CZAR LOOK GOOD!
AmVet
June 30th, 2011
12:47 pm
Looks like RB is about to blow.
http://tinyurl.com/3cgpkba
willie lynch
June 30th, 2011
12:49 pm
Common Sense
June 30th, 2011
12:25 pm
Well, where to start? From what I’ve experienced the loans I had for my education were by no means free and paying them off was a part of the deal. The loans provided to Chrysler and GM were loans which by definition means they were to be paid back. But let’s remember the loans to these companies and the banks were for bad practices not by the government but by private business.
So we should have let Chysler, GM, BofA, and the countless other businesses related to their industries go under? That’s like the “we won’t raise the debt ceiling” argument, it’s not reasonable to the rational mind.
America takes care of Americans. If you don’t like that system…
AmVet
June 30th, 2011
12:50 pm
No worries. As you’re not a friend, Roman or countryman, neither was I.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npqzBtJ2Gco
Doggone/GA
June 30th, 2011
12:50 pm
“AmVet, wasn’t speaking to you. Have Fun”
This is an open forum. Like it or not, you are speaking to everyone here.
BADA BING
June 30th, 2011
12:50 pm
josef, maybe you have read it, but Fujimora’s daughter came within a RCH of winning in Peru. She was beaten by a man who took the indigious vote. I will see how it affects the country on my annual OCT trip.
Left wing management
June 30th, 2011
12:50 pm
Rich: “Liberal and Libertian are not equal.”
Libertarianism is a type of purified liberalism.
Brosephus
June 30th, 2011
12:51 pm
TruthBe
I respond in like kind. You have nary a clue about me, yet earlier you said something about my corrupt black ass. Can you prove that to be true, or is that yet more word vomit from someone who adds almost nothing substantive to the debate here? I don’t tell Jay anything. Jay reads the blog on his own. I could care less what he does to you. You’ll never hear me say that I haven’t made personal attacks here, and I’ve even had posts yanked by Jay. Some I requested be removed, and other’s he’s done on his own. I don’t claim to be perfect, and unlike you, I don’t claim to know things about people who I don’t know sh*t about.
Now, if you consider that a personal attack, I’m guilty. If you consider that a lie, I’m guilty. Otherwise, don’t come at me with that half-baked, assinine crap you spew at others. I don’t cower from anybody, and I can throw that sh*t right back at you.
Logical Dude
June 30th, 2011
12:51 pm
Mighty Righty: Please explain how the U.S. not borrowing money will cause Global chaos and meltdown.
Will you QUIT moving your goalpost? You said: If our credit rating is shot and we can’t borrow money.
It’s about the CREDIT RATING. If the Credit Rating of the United States of America is shot, then, as the WORLD’S LARGEST ECONOMY, the Global repurcussions would be terrible.
Now, with your new goalpost, I would agree that we need to pay down the country’s debt, which is done by increasing revenue and decreasing spending.
Logical Dude
June 30th, 2011
12:51 pm
Mighty Righty: Please explain how the U.S. not borrowing money will cause Global chaos and meltdown.
Will you QUIT moving your goalpost? You said: If our credit rating is shot and we can’t borrow money.
It’s about the CREDIT RATING. If the Credit Rating of the United States of America is shot, then, as the WORLD’S LARGEST ECONOMY, the Global repurcussions would be terrible.
Now, with your new goalpost, I would agree that we need to pay down the country’s debt, which is done by increasing revenue and decreasing spending.
willie lynch
June 30th, 2011
12:51 pm
Joe Mama
June 30th, 2011
12:37 pm
I hope you understand I was commenting on the very solid ground your position held.
Baby Suggs
June 30th, 2011
12:52 pm
Were any of you repubs unhappy when the republican led congress/senate/president/vice-president did away with the Clinton Pay-As-You-Go plan? I can’t seem to remember an outcry from the right, but perhaps I must’ve blinked and missed it………
BADA BING
June 30th, 2011
12:53 pm
Uncle Jed…..yes a Yugo, but I have the deluxe model with a heated rear window, so that the people pushing the car in the winter can keep their hands warm. The Blue Book value depends on how full the gas tank is.
Larry
June 30th, 2011
12:54 pm
Baby Suggs -
So your logic is, it was stupid then, but you did it, so now it’s our turn to be stupid? Sounds like stupid is as stupid does logic to me
Blue
June 30th, 2011
12:55 pm
You’ll forgive me if I don’t really consider your opinion to be very relevant…
Mighty Righty
June 30th, 2011
12:55 pm
Rich
June 30th, 2011
12:37 pm
“We should create a fund that everyone who thinks we should have higher taxes can contribute. I know PA tried it and receive less than $100,000, but if we could collect a small amount from all those who say they want higher taxes, we should be able to balance the budget. If not we cut spending. My guess is those who want higher taxes, want others to pay it”
You are exactly correct. I suggest a box on the 1040 form where those generous with other peoples money could check what they would like to have deducted from their pay for the following year. They could choose 5%, 10%, or 20% in addition to their normal witholding.
captguitarman
June 30th, 2011
12:55 pm
Americans should be watching Greece closely, because therein may lie our future. Once America fully transforms from an educated, informed, personally responsible, and self reliant culture into a culture of government dependency, Greece could happen here. We are well on the way to that in case you have not noticed, and in order to obtain permanent power, one of our poltical parties is fueling that transformation. If you doubt that, just recall the recent turmoil in Wisconsin, because the state government had to take back this time instead of give.
Hundreds of thousands of Greek citizens have violently and destructively taken to the streets in protest — for truth, for justice, for liberty, for equality? — No — because they are dependent upon their socialist government to live, and the government no longer has enough of other people’s money to fund their dependency in the way to which they have become accustomed. So they are pissed. Will they get up off their butts and go do something. No. They will throw violent tantrums, like children.
And yesterday, was just a preview by Obama of what will be coming in the next election, scare tactics, demagoguery, and class warfare. Both political parties have played a role in getting America into to this dangerous predicament. But, I think the Pubs honestly do want to stop the madness, and have demonstrated the political courage (some say stupidity) to come up with ideas, proposals, and legislation (all very painful) to begin to turn things around in the long term. The Dems on the other hand are proposing little to nothing, certainly nothing financially painful, and quietly setting a trap for the next election where they will propose no solutions, except higher taxes on the “rich” (welcome back Great Recession – we were starting to miss you). They will instead use scare tactics and demagogue against the evil Pubs who want to take away or cut “entitlements” (God, I hate that word) for “ordinary Americans” and look to higher taxes to pay for the neverending, always increasing debt and government growth and spending. Where will the money come from? It will be confiscated from the rich and borrowed – until there are no more rich and no one will loan any more.
Where do you draw the line? It should be be coming clear that the philosophy of the Dem/Libs is that you never draw the line. Because in the future, that will be how power is obtained and held permanently. The responsible, self-reliant, workers, producers are going to become the miniority — due to increasing government dependence, successfully waged class warfare, and the avalanche of dependent illegal immigrants the Dems want to see continued. When those dependent on government become the true political majority, this nation will no longer be America. The very soul of this America is in the balance. Freedom from government control, individual freedom, self- determnation, the rule of law and equality under the law, economic freedom and the opportunity to succeed or to fail, personal responsibilty and accountability, religious faith and strong moral character and exceptionalism, and the will to fight and sacrifice our lives and treasure for freedom for ourselves and for others — all of those things make up the soul of this nation. Look at Greece. Do we want to become Greece? Think about what depending on our government or someone or anything else would mean for America. We are being led in that direction. Scary.
williebkind
June 30th, 2011
12:56 pm
Amvet
I excoriate whites who do not take personal responsibility like the progressive liberals.
josef
June 30th, 2011
12:56 pm
BADA
Had not heard that…thanks for the update…I need to call one of my colleagues…she’s Japanese-Peruvian!
Logical Dude
June 30th, 2011
12:56 pm
I apologize for the duplicate post, the “Submit Comment” button didn’t seem to work. . .
I blame the national debt on this.
Mr Right
June 30th, 2011
12:56 pm
It is suicidal madness to even contemplate such a step.
The party is over. The bills are now due.
The debt we have is total madness!
AmVet
June 30th, 2011
12:57 pm
To the chant of USA! USA! USA!
BRO SEE FUSS! BRO SEE FUSS! BRO SEE FUSS!
Doggone/GA
June 30th, 2011
12:57 pm
“I excoriate whites who do not take personal responsibility like the progressive liberals”
I suspect this is not saying what you think it is. Or do you really think, as you’ve said, that “progressive liberals” DO take personal reponsibility?
The Gipper
June 30th, 2011
12:59 pm
When we hit the debt ceiling, cut social security and medicare payments to Republicans since they already claim that they don’t get anything and increase taxes on Republicans since they already claim that they’re the only ones that pay anything and that should take care of our money issues. Afterward, I’ll coach you on how to sell the increased spending on select entitlements and increased taxation to the base. They’re so gullible. You don’t even need to be a professional actor to con them. I should know.
Mighty Righty
June 30th, 2011
12:59 pm
BADA BING
June 30th, 2011
12:53 pm
You should be at the comedy club. I can hardly see to type this for the tears caused by laughing.
Dave R.
June 30th, 2011
12:59 pm
“He’s just in the same minstrel show as Redneck from what I can gather…”
Can you say minstrel show and not be accused of being bigoted today?
Mr Right
June 30th, 2011
12:59 pm
Has anyone signed up for GBTV ?
williebkind
June 30th, 2011
12:59 pm
“The very soul of this America is in the balance. Freedom from government control, individual freedom, self- determnation, the rule of law and equality under the law, economic freedom and the opportunity to succeed or to fail, personal responsibilty and accountability, religious faith and strong moral character and exceptionalism, and the will to fight and sacrifice our lives and treasure for freedom for ourselves and for others — all of those things make up the soul of this nation.”
Now that gave me goosebumps!
Left wing management
June 30th, 2011
12:59 pm
Mighty Righty: “Please explain how the U.S. not borrowing money will cause Global chaos and meltdown”
If you have to ask the question why the world’s largest economy suddenly defaulting on its loans will be a problem, then you obviously don’t understand the first thing about the world economy, in other words, you don’t understand the first thing about capitalism in its current state. I mean zilch.
Which is amazing, considering you think of yourself as being the big defender of capitalism.
You NEED the ‘liberals’ you so despise to save your beloved capitalism. That’s the ultimate irony of our times.
Soothsayer
June 30th, 2011
1:01 pm
Amvet, for your 12:47!
oldguy
June 30th, 2011
1:01 pm
Ah Jay (and other selected Socialists here)
You remind me of days gone by when I spent dawn on Lake Hartwell, listening to the cries of the Wild Loons!!
Your hero and his Czars and Czarinas have spent us into an impossible corner and now its our fault that we are unwilling to Prostitute our Grandchildren to an infinity of debt to bail you out.
In the imortal words of Charlie Chan “Sooo Solly!!”
Was it Goerge Patton who said “Shoot them all and let God sort them out!”?
Well let Obozo sort it out
FREEZE THE DEBT!! If the feds shut down we will all be safer!!!
Dave R.
June 30th, 2011
1:03 pm
“Libertarianism is a type of purified liberalism.”
Not even remotely true, at least when discussing the different philosophies liberals espouse versus what liberty means. Economic and social freedom has never equated to liberalism.
Dave R.
June 30th, 2011
1:05 pm
“You NEED the ‘liberals’ you so despise to save your beloved capitalism. That’s the ultimate irony of our times.”
Not quite. We need the liberals we so despise to get out of our way so that we can save capitalism.
The Owl
June 30th, 2011
1:06 pm
One thing we could do without is the grossly unnecessary Department of Education in DC. States can do better without it. What a waste of money!
williebkind
June 30th, 2011
1:06 pm
What is social freedom? I have always thought of individual freedom.
LOL
June 30th, 2011
1:07 pm
The President can get his debt ceiling raise, all he and the Dems have to do is cut spending and they can get the ceiling raised. What’s the problem?
Joe Mama
June 30th, 2011
1:07 pm
Willie Lynch — “I hope you understand I was commenting on the very solid ground your position held.”
I didn’t, but I do thank you for the clarification. And, upon re-reading your last post to me, your kind words, sir.
Mighty Righty
June 30th, 2011
1:07 pm
captguitarman
June 30th, 2011
12:55 pm
Unfortunately you are right. Wait ans see what will happen in this country if “benefits” are cut. Obama has his private army made up of S.E.I.U., U.A.W., N.E.A., Acorn, Black Panthers and others which will fill the streets with armed thugs. I hope I am wrong.
jms
June 30th, 2011
1:08 pm
The utter madness is that our debt is anywhere near the ridiculously high debt ceiling.
Joe Mama
June 30th, 2011
1:08 pm
Righty — “You are exactly correct. I suggest a box on the 1040 form where those generous with other peoples money could check what they would like to have deducted from their pay for the following year. They could choose 5%, 10%, or 20% in addition to their normal witholding.”
And the “Tu Quoque” logical fallacy attains new heights in the hands of our conservative friends and associates.
AmVet
June 30th, 2011
1:10 pm
Funny, because unlike the plethora of times you’ve railed against blacks, I’ve never once seen you decry any whites. As noted above perhaps I blinked and missed it, but if I’m wrong I’m sure you can show me in black and white (get it?) the error of my ways.
Two of many…
Williebkind
May 6th, 2010
12:12 pm
How about the racist name calling and the violent rioting by the liberals over the Arizona bill. Oh but they were not black. OK, never mind.
Williebkind
May 6th, 2010
3:31 pm
Sorry for being away for so long but I had a problem. Some black people were trying to break into my building. A great neighborhood.
Joe Mama
June 30th, 2011
1:10 pm
Dave — “Not quite. We need the liberals we so despise to get out of our way so that we can save capitalism.”
Capitalism isn’t what needs saving. Our country is.
If capitalism so needs saving, then perhaps it’s time to consider other economic systems.
Left wing management
June 30th, 2011
1:11 pm
If anybody has any doubts about the ideological decision point that we are at right now in this country, just look at captguitarman’s 12:55. There you have the entire fraud reproduced in perfect form, bought hook, line, and sinker by someone who has been sold a bill of goods.
captguitarman, let’s step outside Fox News world for just 2 seconds, shall we? Do you really think the problem with Greece is that the people are
Or do you not think it might be that they are protesting 1) the corruption of their neoliberal enabler puppet government and 2) the subjugation of their country to that same neoliberal regime represented by the IMF in the name of higher profits for the capitalist pillaging class?
Thulsa Doom
June 30th, 2011
1:12 pm
Alexis de Tocqueville had it right. He gave us 200 years to surivive as a democracy before we would collapse from within. Why the inevitable collapse? Because sooner or later the population begins to realize it can vote itself goodies at the expense of others. And the inevitable welfare state and financial collapse ensues a la Greece. We are Greece a few years from now.
Fletch
June 30th, 2011
1:13 pm
captguitarman@12:55
You forgot the part about Apes rising up and taking over the planet.
Left wing management
June 30th, 2011
1:13 pm
Dave R. “Economic and social freedom has never equated to liberalism”
Odd. I think John Stuart Mill and Adam Smith and others would find that claim very strange.
Dave R.
June 30th, 2011
1:13 pm
Sound proof cages at the Yerkes Primate Center would be perfect.
Or a keyboard-free zone in this case.
oldguy
June 30th, 2011
1:15 pm
Next false point:
You Libs here all seem to be concerned that a default on our debt will “Ruin the countries credit (debt) rating”.
So what?? You live within your means and pay as you go and you need no credit rating!!!! DUH
Left wing management
June 30th, 2011
1:16 pm
Thulsa, wow I agree with you 100% except for one word. ONE WORD is all you have to change to make that a perfectly accurate statement.
Alexis de Tocqueville had it right. He gave us 200 years to surivive as a democracy before we would collapse from within. Why the inevitable collapse? Because sooner or later the
populationCAPITALIST CLASS begins to realize it can vote itself goodies at the expense of others.Joe Mama
June 30th, 2011
1:16 pm
Righty — “Obama has his private army made up of S.E.I.U., U.A.W., N.E.A., Acorn, Black Panthers and others which will fill the streets with armed thugs.”
No. This is not possible. Remember, liberals are anti-gun girly-men, and besides, Ann Coulter says you’re wrong. To quote the previous thread,
“Liberals are not like most Americans. They are the biggest pussies on Earth, city-bred weaklings who didn’t play a sport and have never been in a fight in their entire lives. Their mothers made excuses for them when they threw tantrums and spent way too much time praising them during toilet training.”
“A liberal’s idea of being a bad-ass is to say vicious things to a conservative public figure who can’t afford to strike back. Getting in a stranger’s face and hurling insults at him, knowing full well he has too much at risk to deck you, is like baiting a bear chained to a wall.”
“These brave-hearts know exactly what they can get away with. They assault a conservative only when it’s a sucker-punch, they outnumber him, or he can’t fight back for reasons of law or decorum.”
“Liberals don’t get that when you’re outnumbering the enemy 100-1, you’re not brave.”
“When someone does fight back, liberals transform from aggressor to victim in an instant, collapsing on the ground and screaming bloody murder. I’ve seen it happen in a nearly empty auditorium when there was quite obviously no other human within 5 feet of the gutless invertebrate.”
“Sometimes — a lot more often than you’ve heard about — liberals do engage in physical violence against conservatives … and then bravely run away.”
“These liberal pukes have never taken a punch in their lives. A sock to the yap would be an eye-opening experience, and I believe it would do wonders.”
“Believe me, liberal mobbings will stop very quickly after the first toilet-training champion takes his inaugural punch.”
Is this what you’re afraid of, Righty? Harsh language? (pointing, laughing)
Mighty Righty
June 30th, 2011
1:16 pm
For those of you who are learning challenged I copieid my post below for your perusal. Please point out where in this post I suggested “default.”
June 30th, 2011
11:04 am
Horror of horrors, the Federal Government will have to live within its means. If our credit rating is shot and we can’t borrow money, Hoorah! Like drug addicts, our president and representives will not curb their addiction to spending unless forced to.
Paul Krugman, who the looneys like to quote, said yesterday if the government eliminated the tax breaks allowed “big oil” and eliminated the “corporate jets” write off, the additional revenue to the federal government over the next 100 years, would be less than Obama spent in February! That is why a tax increase to reduce the deficit is simply silly. We have to cut spending. If that means closing the Department of Education, so be it. We cannot tax our way out of the mess Obama has put us in. We must cut spending by 1.5 trillion dollars per year just to stay even!
Thulsa Doom
June 30th, 2011
1:17 pm
If capitalism so needs saving, then perhaps it’s time to consider other economic systems.- Joe Mama
A majority believes capitalism is not working. The irony is that free-market capitalism has not existed anywhere on Earth for the last 100 years. It is collectivism that is not working; yet people will clamor for more collectivism because they don’t know one from the other.
josef
June 30th, 2011
1:17 pm
old guy…
“Kill them all and let G-d sort them out” was not Patton. It was Arnaud-Armaury, the Abbot of Citeaux, and “spiritual advisor” to the in the Albigensian Crusade, ordered by Pope Innocent III to purge southern France of the Cathari heretics.
BROSEPUS
Now why would my uppity self know that!
Logical Dude
June 30th, 2011
1:17 pm
oldguy: You live within your means and pay as you go and you need no credit rating!!!!
What? That’s a GREAT IDEA!
LOL
June 30th, 2011
1:17 pm
I think the Republicans should give Mr. Obama what he asked for yesterday. Cut the subsidies for Corp. Jets, and big oil, and ethanol, and farmers, and NPR, etc…Cut all of the subsidies; we don’t have the money right now; but DO NOT RAISE TAXES. This President and his party along with G.W. Bush have/had a SPENDING problem. Make the necessary cuts Mr. President, do your JOB, quit fund raising, and playing golf and get your damn job done.
oldguy
June 30th, 2011
1:18 pm
Hi Thulsa and welcome in!
Got to go get some lunch now, Canada is loosing the world cup game….booring!!
Left wing management
June 30th, 2011
1:19 pm
oldguy: “So what?? You live within your means and pay as you go and you need no credit rating!!!! DUH”
Don’t run with scissors, child. These ideas are dangerous things if you don’t know what you’re doing.
Our entanglement in world capital markets is precisely the PRECONDITION for our ‘living within our means’, you see?
oldguy
June 30th, 2011
1:19 pm
living it Logical…..
Logical Dude
June 30th, 2011
1:20 pm
oldguy: You live within your means and pay as you go and you need no credit rating!!!!
What? That’s a GREAT IDEA!
(silly “Submit Comment” was hit too early)
Too bad WE ARE ALREADY DEEP IN DEBT. Your Great Idea would have needed to be working 50 years ago!!!
So, what do we do today to keep the world’s economy going?
1) We raise the debt limit to be able to pay all the bills due curently
2) We reduce spending so we have lower bills
3) We increase revenue in partnership with spending reductions
4) We PAY DOWN THE DEBT when we hit the surplus, instead of cutting taxes like BUSH did.
This path is fairly simple, but it won’t be easy.
Brosephus
June 30th, 2011
1:20 pm
Now why would my uppity self know that!
SSSSSSHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It’s a secret.
Joe Mama
June 30th, 2011
1:22 pm
Doom — “The irony is that free-market capitalism has not existed anywhere on Earth for the last 100 years.”
I suspect that the arms merchants of Mogadishu would disagree with your assertion.
Cirillo
June 30th, 2011
1:23 pm
“Social Security benefits could be among the first casualties…”
Oh dear, geezers dyin in the streets. Maybe the answer to the dilemma can be found in the movie “Soylent Green”.
Honu
June 30th, 2011
1:23 pm
Happy Birthday, RW, wherevah you are — hope your day is faboo!!!
Logical Dude
June 30th, 2011
1:24 pm
Cirillo: Maybe the answer to the dilemma can be found in the movie “Soylent Green”.
Or Logan’s Run?
Honu
June 30th, 2011
1:24 pm
AmVet — “williebklan” still has me cryin’ laughing up here. Best of the day!!!
Joe Mama
June 30th, 2011
1:26 pm
“Soylent Green? How’s it taste?”
“It varies from person to person.”
–Futurama
Thulsa Doom
June 30th, 2011
1:26 pm
Joe Mama,
A few arms merchants trading in an normally illegal business does not constitute an entire economic system. Is that the best you got today?
Rich
June 30th, 2011
1:27 pm
For those who think we should raise taxes: How much should be raise taxes? What % ? And on who? And how much will it raise? We need about 1.3 Trillion a year.
josef
June 30th, 2011
1:27 pm
JOE
I answered Scout last p.m. on that Coulter one about Liberals being p*ssies because…
DAVE
@ 12:59
I wish Paul would get back…these EOI duties are weighing heavy…
oldguy
June 30th, 2011
1:27 pm
LOL,
you don’t understand the underlying meaning with obama and the libs, the subsidies are just a red herring….. the real point is they want higher taxes….period
More taxes,,,More Spending….More Government!!
“Our entanglement in world capital markets is precisely the PRECONDITION for our ‘living within our means’, you see?” So, who says we have to be in world capital markets??? And I naively thought the US Federal Budget was the US Federal Budget!!
willie lynch
June 30th, 2011
1:29 pm
Mighty Righty
June 30th, 2011
1:16 pm
Ok, so we eliminate the DOE, what do we do with the unemployed.
Krugmans point is that we need substantive revenue increases along with spending cuts in order to bring the fiscal house in order. If you own a business you can cut as much payroll as you want but you will not increase your revenues. If it is your intention to not grow then that’s the path to take but revenue will have to be generated somehow.
Dave R.
June 30th, 2011
1:31 pm
“I wish Paul would get back…these EOI duties are weighing heavy…”
I know, josef. Paul certainly lightens the load around here.
While others specialize in creating more load . . .
AmVet
June 30th, 2011
1:32 pm
The emaciated hagstress writes fallacious nonsense because, lets face it, that stuff sells really well.
It’s like political porn for the lonely old white guys out there on the fringe, who are bored with Billy “Loofah” O and HeadRush…
willie lynch
June 30th, 2011
1:32 pm
Someone please tell me how this vast left-wing conspiracy of more bigger government works and how does it benefit them?
oldguy
June 30th, 2011
1:33 pm
Hey logical,
“So, what do we do today to keep the world’s economy going?
I’m a little hazy as to why we are responsible for the worlds economy, please elaborate !!
P.S. SORRY FOR THE SLIP OF THE FINGER YOU HAD EARLIER, compliment withdrawn!
Baby Suggs
June 30th, 2011
1:33 pm
Larry: Baby Suggs – So your logic is, it was stupid then, but you did it, so now it’s our turn to be stupid? Sounds like stupid is as stupid does logic to me
I just asked a question, I see that you didn’t answer the question though………..almost a good dodge.
Logical Dude
June 30th, 2011
1:33 pm
Rich; For those who think we should raise taxes: How much should be raise taxes? What % ? And on who? And how much will it raise? We need about 1.3 Trillion a year.
First, repeal the Bush/Obama tax cuts.
Second, reduce government subsidies on profitable companies. (i’m not saying eliminate, but reduce)
Third, don’t cap the Medicare tax to a certain salary (it is currently capped, so those with the highest incomes pay the lowest percentage tax).
Just a few things that will help the economy. Along with appropriate spending cuts.
Joe Mama
June 30th, 2011
1:33 pm
Doom — “A few arms merchants trading in an normally illegal business does not constitute an entire economic system.”
And I didn’t claim that it did. Let’s go back and see what you wrote *before* you moved your goalposts, shall we?
Doom — “The irony is that free-market capitalism has not existed anywhere on Earth for the last 100 years.”
Anywhere on Earth, right? I gave you where it exists. Your claim has now been destroyed. The Joe has spoken.
Besides, if you meant something different from that, then you should have *said* something different from that.
“Is that the best you got today?”
What I got was better than what *you* got. If you don’t want your claims demolished, then don’t make such stupid and easy-to-debunk ones.
Hey, this posting-like-Doom thing is fun. I think I’ll talk down to you some more and see how you like it. (laughing)
BADA BING
June 30th, 2011
1:34 pm
michelle o’s Budget Trimming and Fashion Guide
National Debt Edition
Get your debt under control, and reduce the size of your deficit, just in time for those July 4th pool parties
Never use Red Ink when showing those negative numbers, Pink is less severe and gives a feminine touch
Never list the National Debt in Horizontal columns, Vertical columns give a slimming illusion
Always list those National Debt dollars using a small case ‘b’ or ‘t’. trillions looks smaller than Trillions. No use calling attention to those problem areas
Follow these few tips, and your deficits will look great in that Red, White, and Blue bikini this Holiday Weekend
Left wing management
June 30th, 2011
1:34 pm
Thulsa Doom: “The irony is that free-market capitalism has not existed anywhere on Earth for the last 100 years. It is collectivism that is not working; yet people will clamor for more collectivism because they don’t know one from the other”
Free-market capitalism existed in the 1920s and it gave us a crash that, along with World War II, is the primary reference point for all that follows. The next time that we had it was in the 2000s leading up to the crash, and to a large extent continuing now.
The true irony? That those very same forces who drove that same disastrous era have managed snooker people like you into thinking that 1) free market capitalism has never been truly tried, an obscene lie; and 2) that that’s the only solution to our current woes.
Thulsa Doom
June 30th, 2011
1:34 pm
Rich
June 30th, 2011
1:27 pm
For those who think we should raise taxes: How much should be raise taxes? What % ? And on who? And how much will it raise? We need about 1.3 Trillion a year.
Rich,
I’ve read or heard at least a couple of times that if we tax the top 1 million households at a 100% rate- taking every dime they make, then we could raise roughly a trillion or a little under a trillion. Actually I think the number may have been only 600 or 800 billion. In any event if the projected FY 2011 is 1.74 trillion and we could raise lets say a trillion by taxing those people at 100% then we’re still running a deficit of 3/4 of a trillion dollars. Seems to me like the problem is spending- not taxation. But you can’t tell that to the “tax the rich” crowd on here.
oldguy
June 30th, 2011
1:34 pm
easy Willie,
They control more! period
Logical Dude
June 30th, 2011
1:35 pm
oldguy: SORRY FOR THE SLIP OF THE FINGER YOU HAD EARLIER, compliment withdrawn!
LOL!!
IT’s still a good concept, but one we’ve should’ve done long ago.
“I’m a little hazy as to why we are responsible for the worlds economy, please elaborate !!”
It’s complicated, you see. If you’re hazy on it, then you should probably not try to make arguments about it either way
AmVet
June 30th, 2011
1:35 pm
Thanks Honu.
I’m no BADA nor Redneck Convert, but occasionally I come up with something a bit clever…
poison pen
June 30th, 2011
1:36 pm
Granny Godzilla
” I say cut all Federal Funding to states over and above the amount
the states pay in. ”
Lotsa’ red states in trouble tho….
Granny, May not be a bad idea, when the auto business was booming in Mich, we were near the top for paying into the Govt for fed tax dollare, and if my memory serve me correctly we were number 38 for tax dollars returning.
We always seemed to get the short end.
Logical Dude
June 30th, 2011
1:37 pm
From the quote in the Article:
Denigration of the full faith and credit of the United States would have substantial effects on the domestic financial markets and on the value of the dollar in exchange markets. The nation can ill afford to allow such a result. The risks, the costs, the disruptions, and the incalculable damage
-Ronald Reagan.
Thulsa Doom
June 30th, 2011
1:38 pm
Leftwingmanagement,
Capitalism- or what we think of as capitalism- has lifted more boats out of poverty than any other economic system. Fact. Socialism and especially communistic socialism- is an utter failure. Fact. If you don’t believe that go live in North Korea or Cuba for awhile.
Baby Suggs
June 30th, 2011
1:40 pm
oldguy: So what?? You live within your means and pay as you go and you need no credit rating!!!! DUH
So, to repeat my question from earlier, “Were any of you repubs unhappy when the republican led congress/senate/president/vice-president did away with the Clinton Pay-As-You-Go plan?”
I can’t seem to remember an outcry from the right, but perhaps I must’ve blinked and missed it………
Joe Mama
June 30th, 2011
1:41 pm
Logical Dude — “-Ronald Reagan”
Well, that’s it then. The Republicans HAVE to compromise now.
willie lynch
June 30th, 2011
1:41 pm
oldguy
June 30th, 2011
1:34 pm
Control more what? Control the ability of a woman to make a choice about her own welfare? Control the ability to dictate who marries who they love? Did they initiate the intrusion into our personal lives (Patriot Act)? Control more what????
Rich
June 30th, 2011
1:41 pm
Logical Dude – “Second, reduce government subsidies on profitable companies. (i’m not saying eliminate, but reduce)” What are these subsidies? Heard it many times, but no one can explain. Are we talking tax deductions?
AmVet
June 30th, 2011
1:42 pm
Speaking of Billy Loofah, he may have to take a pay cut.
Six years ago News Corp purchased MySpace for $580 million — far more than the $35 million it sold for today. At one point MySpace was considered so valuable that Viacom CEO Tom Freston was fired for failing to grab up the social network before News Corp.
Anders Bylund of Ars Technica, estimates that News Corp (owned by Rupert Murdoch — one of the wealthiest men in the world), lost approximately $1.3 Billion dollars on the MySpace deal.
poison pen
June 30th, 2011
1:42 pm
willie lynch
Mighty Righty
Ok, so we eliminate the DOE, what do we do with the unemployed.
” Krugmans point is that we need substantive revenue increases along with spending cuts in order to bring the fiscal house in order. If you own a business you can cut as much payroll as you want but you will not increase your revenues. If it is your intention to not grow then that’s the path to take but revenue will have to be generated somehow. ”
Willie, If you cut spending then there should be extra money left over because you didn’t spend it, so why raise taxes?
josef
June 30th, 2011
1:43 pm
Just a reminder
TCM, 4:30 p.m. today, “Border Incident” *** (1949) George Murphy, Ricardo Montalban, US and Mexican agents set out to smash a vicious illegal immigration ring.
oldguy
June 30th, 2011
1:43 pm
Hey Poison,
To make it work you HAVE to also cut Federal Mandates to the states!!
Thulsa Doom
June 30th, 2011
1:44 pm
Joe Mama,
You fall for it every time. I kinda figured you would respond with a novel or at least a short story arguing everything under the sun. Soooo predictable.
Left wing management
June 30th, 2011
1:44 pm
Thanks, Logical 1:37.
You know I saw the quote cited again last night on TV and it struck me at just how stunning it is to be reminded of it. So I’m glad you posted again.
Here it is once more. Cons are welcome to take a crack at trying to explain away this one:
Denigration of the full faith and credit of the United States would have substantial effects on the domestic financial markets and on the value of the dollar in exchange markets. The nation can ill afford to allow such a result. The risks, the costs, the disruptions, and the incalculable damage.
-Ronald Reagan.
Granny Godzilla
June 30th, 2011
1:45 pm
OMG! OMG! OMG!
“Obama has his private army made up of S.E.I.U., U.A.W., N.E.A., Acorn, Black Panthers and others which will fill the streets with armed thugs.”
which one of you lousy stinkers gave up the Order of Obama secret handshake?
Am Vet? was that you?
Joe Mama?
Left Wing Management?
Where’s Bosch? Did he do it?
Do you think Mighty Righty might show up at our annual dance nude under the Fireworks 4th of July Party?
If he does he better bring a dish for the table.
Hate it when the righties show up empty handed and want to drink all our
punch.
oldguy
June 30th, 2011
1:46 pm
Josef,
Didn’t work then either! >)
Unfortunately I actually remember that movie (vaguely)!!
josef
June 30th, 2011
1:46 pm
ZamVet
Control?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6mGtAYG5l8
David
June 30th, 2011
1:46 pm
“But we couldn’t pay our own soldiers. No government salaries would be paid at all, including for those employees who would supposedly be sending out the checks to China and elsewhere.” Wonder what would happen the first week Congress doesn’t get a paycheck?
Joe Mama
June 30th, 2011
1:46 pm
pp — “Willie, If you cut spending then there should be extra money left over because you didn’t spend it, so why raise taxes?”
To use Willie’s example, if you cut staffing at your company, you’re not going to *earn* as much revenue as you were before. You simply can’t take on as much business.
Depending on what gets cut at the Federal level, you’re possibly going to decrease services (of all sorts) and quite likely increase *unemployment* as well. I’d rather pay a guy for working than pay him for not working.
JoeFann
June 30th, 2011
1:47 pm
Afternoon all! Been REALLY busy at work so I haven’t been able to chime in much lately, but here goes!
Is it madness? Yes, but that’s what got us here in the first place. The old American notion of spend now, pay later. Guess what–it’s now later! Been happening for most of a century, but we needed this President to turn comedy to satire to tragedy. Certainly it’s not all his fault, but he truly is the ultimate product of our political system, both fortunate to come of political age at the right time to get elected, and unfortunate to get elected at the worst time, economically, to be a sitting president. His presidency was doomed by time, and his preparation too shallow to make a meaningful difference, whether he gets one term, or two. It would be nice, however, if he would take his foot off the accelerator, as we approach the cliff.
The idea of “shutting the government down” has always been a threat, designed to make to the point that substantive, systemic change in the federal government’s operation was required. Unfortunately, the elected children mandated (by us) to FIX IT! are too busy posturing for the camera and positioning for reelection, that they STILL have not sat down TOGETHER and developed a sensible framework for how we get from here to where we need to be, because they can’t agree on that either. (It would be nice if they’d agree on the 75% of things they agree on, and ignore the other 25% for a while!) Ultimately, it is that positioning that prevents progress (the opposite of congress) on the real issues. As long as they are beholden to their various “constituencies” for reelection, they will never put our interests above their own. The only answer to that is term limits for ALL.
The (fairly) fresh GOPers may not have completely understood our mandate. They weren’t elected to merely “hold the (party) line,” they were elected to FIX IT! You can’t FIX IT! if you’re standing in the corner yelling at the other corner. Ultimately, you have to address the problems instead of addressing the counter-party.
I, the eternal optimist, believe it can still be done. However, there is NOTHING that is “off the table.” Entitlements MUST be reformed (start by repealing Medicare Part D,) the military complex MUST be downsized, government “programs” MUST be carved, the tax code MUST be simplified, tax rates, both personal and corporate, CAN be raised (and probably should be,) subsidies MUST be slashed, tax loopholes MUST be closed. As others have pointed out, no matter how much you raise income taxes, that alone will NOT solve our deficit spending. The biggest problem with government is that once a program is begun, it (almost) NEVER goes away. EVERY agency and program should have to justify its existence every few years, or it should be eliminated. Too many under- or non-performing programs (Education, anyone?) just get more money thrown at them, without accountability. Stop the madness.
It’s time to stop fixing the blame, and start fixing the problems. (There’s more than enough blame to go around.) Time to ignore “R” and “D.” They’re just “US.” If they don’t FIX IT!, or make significant progress, replace them. At the risk of repeating myself, fire them ALL. Start over. Good day, all!
Mighty Righty
June 30th, 2011
1:48 pm
Joe Mama. You were in the military as was I. Read it and tell me the logic for this. It is in the Obamacare bill. This a small represetive sample of several pages on this subject.
In addition, Obama is on record, on video tape, saying he wanted his own army, equal in strength to the U.S. military.
Obama’s “Ready Reserve Corps”
H.R. 3590 – Patient Protection And Affordable Care Act
H. R. 3590—496 (Page 496)
SEC. 5210. ESTABLISHING A READY RESERVE CORPS.
Section 203 of the Public Health Service Act (42 U.S.C. 204)
is amended to read as follows:
‘‘SEC. 203. COMMISSIONED CORPS AND READY RESERVE CORPS.
‘‘(a) ESTABLISHMENT.—
‘‘(1) IN GENERAL.—There shall be in the Service a commissioned
Regular Corps and a Ready Reserve Corps for service
in time of national emergency.
‘‘(2) REQUIREMENT.—All commissioned officers shall be citizens
of the United States and shall be appointed without regard
to the civil-service laws and compensated without regard to
the Classification Act of 1923, as amended.
‘‘(3) APPOINTMENT.—Commissioned officers of the Ready
Reserve Corps shall be appointed by the President and commissioned
officers of the Regular Corps shall be appointed by
the President with the advice and consent of the Senate.
‘‘(4) ACTIVE DUTY.—Commissioned officers of the Ready
Reserve Corps shall at all times be subject to call to active
duty by the Surgeon General, including active duty for the
purpose of training.
Joe Mama
June 30th, 2011
1:48 pm
Doom — “You fall for it every time. I kinda figured you would respond with a novel or at least a short story arguing everything under the sun. Soooo predictable.”
Translation — “I made a claim I couldn’t support and Joe sunk my battleship. Waaaahhhhhhh.”
Any plans for the weekend, Doom?
josef
June 30th, 2011
1:48 pm
old guy
Shoot…there I was going to watch it and you went and gave away the ending!
oldguy
June 30th, 2011
1:49 pm
So LWM,
If RR said it it is Law?? Can I get that in writing!!
As I have said BFD!!
Joe Mama
June 30th, 2011
1:50 pm
GG — “Joe Mama?”
It wasn’t me. The s00par-seekr1t handshake requires two hands per shaker, and I use a cane. I’ve only got one hand free.
But I can whack miscreants with it, so maybe I’m one’a those thugs Righty was moaning about.
willie lynch
June 30th, 2011
1:50 pm
poison pen
June 30th, 2011
1:42 pm
Have you ever managed a P&L?
Adam
June 30th, 2011
1:51 pm
Rich: Taxes won’t need to go up substantially once the economy recovers (which, btw, is the next argument if we end up with a recovered economy and start talking about the expiration of the tax cuts around that time). Since income taxes are percentage of income, more income for everyone means more tax revenue. The richest won’t get that income flowing in as much as if they had more people buying their stuff.
Uncle Jed
June 30th, 2011
1:53 pm
@BADA BING
June 30th, 2011
12:53 pm
+++++++++++++++++++++++
OMG- my sides are hurting
Hey- If you want to hear a funny as heck recording about Yugo try to find Paul Shanklin and look for that parody. It has something to do with “a liberal guy and a liberal gal in a Yugo” and it is set to Elvis’s In the Ghetto
Logical Dude
June 30th, 2011
1:53 pm
oldguy: As I have said BFD!!
So you’re okay with all of the consequences of a National Default on its debt? I’m just verifying because that’s the way your comments come across.
Nothing will change your mind about the need to increase the debt limit?
BADA BING
June 30th, 2011
1:53 pm
Have a July 4th party this weekend. Celebrate the fact that if you are financilly solvent, with no debt, YOU have more money than the US Gov’t!
AmVet
June 30th, 2011
1:55 pm
josef, I absolutely love that. VERY clever.
And Sooth, thanks for the Skynyrd.
Tired of voodoo economic confabs, wish I was…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZ1tF6LgB40&feature=related
Mighty Righty
June 30th, 2011
1:56 pm
Any of you looney lefties, Granny, LWM, come on, I guess you can read, give i a try. Read my 1:48 and explain. Why! Why does Obama need an Army? I know you will have an excuse. Let’s hear it!
Granny Godzilla
June 30th, 2011
1:56 pm
Mighty Righty
“The truth about the new Ready Reserve Corps is a lot less interesting than the conspiracy theories. Before the law was passed, the Public Health Service, unlike other elements of the government’s seven uniformed services, didn’t have a “ready reserve” — a cadre of individuals who could be called up involuntarily in times of need. What it had was a regular, full-time corps of 2,800 doctors, nurses, scientists and other medical professionals, which was the limit under law. It also had a reserve corps. But most of the individuals in the reserve corps, which was larger than the regular corps, were on extended active duty for the duration of their careers; in other words, they worked full-time, just like the regular corps, because they were needed, but the statutory cap prevented the service from bringing them into the regular corps.
The new law eliminates the personnel cap and brings the members of what used to be the reserve corps into the regular corps, which as a result now numbers about 6,600, according to an official at the Public Health Service who spoke to us on background.
And the law creates the ready reserve of individuals who can be called up for service by the U.S. surgeon general in times of need; the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina is often used as an example of an incident that might trigger a call-up.”
From FactCheck.com
We of the Order are glad you haven’t found out where the party is Monday night, but better put on cast iron jockey pants just in case
when the surgeon general calls up his troops to care of the nuts on the right he doesn’t get confused about what or whose they might be….
Joe Mama
June 30th, 2011
1:57 pm
Righty — “Read it and tell me the logic for this. It is in the Obamacare bill. This a small represetive sample of several pages on this subject. ”
I don’t know *what* to think about it without context, but I’ve bookmarked this so I can read that section of the bill in detail.
When I hear “Ready Reserve,” I think of the IRR. Believe it or not, I actually got *activated* for *one day* while I was in the IRR. It was some sort of weird test of the IRR system where they pick out a handful of guys across the country and each one reports for some kind of timewaster duty for a day just so some civil service dude can say “yeah, the IRR system works.” I actually got orders and ended up being Mr. Gofer for a recruiting station for a day.
Dave R.
June 30th, 2011
1:57 pm
Interesting history on Ricardo Montalban, josef.
Had a bad fall from a horse back in 1951, and was in constant pain for the rest of his life. You can see him favoring his legs and back in the Police Squad! movie when trying to move.
Still acted in tons of movies and TV shows even after that accident.
Granny Godzilla
June 30th, 2011
1:58 pm
Paranoia is so wimpy.
AmVet
June 30th, 2011
1:59 pm
And Granny, tweren’t me!
I always run cover for union thugs, Black Panther thugs, ACORN thugs and teacher thugs…
Mighty Righty
June 30th, 2011
2:00 pm
Here lefty loonies. I dare you to look and listen to your man say on video tape he wants his own army.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGW136RLhSM&feature=related
Granny Godzilla
June 30th, 2011
2:01 pm
Mighty Righty
how about a nice “thanks Granny for taking the big scarey thing away”?
AmVet
June 30th, 2011
2:01 pm
Paranoia is so wimpy.
Love it, GG.
I’m sure BADA can cook up soemthing sweet for us about how confidence is sexy…
Adam
June 30th, 2011
2:02 pm
Mighty Righty: Here ya go. Not an “Obama Army”
willie lynch
June 30th, 2011
2:03 pm
Dave R.
June 30th, 2011
1:57 pm
24 year old has horrible car accident left in vegetative state for the rest of his life. What now?
Dave R.
June 30th, 2011
2:03 pm
Granny, it was me. I sent in my $5 for a dinner with Hope & Putt ™ and Plugs, and they sent me the secret handshake as a bonus!
I’m sending their secret passwords back with a virus attached . . .
nh_hiker
June 30th, 2011
2:03 pm
kiss your 401k goodbye
Granny Godzilla
June 30th, 2011
2:04 pm
Lefty loonies…from a scaredy cat?
Priceless.
YES…MIGHTY RIGHTY HE HAS FORMED HIS OWN SECRET ARMY AND WE ARE WATCHING YOU RIGHT NOW.
Those pants do nothing at all for your figure…..
Dave R.
June 30th, 2011
2:04 pm
willie lynch at 2:03:
WTF?
Granny Godzilla
June 30th, 2011
2:06 pm
Dave R
Don’t be such a bald faced liar….THE ARMY IS WATCHING YOU TOO….
ICK…Dave – go wash you hands/
Baby Suggs
June 30th, 2011
2:07 pm
Black man with his own private army = racists WORST fear evah!
Mighty Righty
June 30th, 2011
2:08 pm
Joe Mama
June 30th, 2011
1:57 pm
I had four years active and four years ready reserve. Lucky I wasn’t activated. This is different. The president is the sole judge of wheher or not here is a “national emergency.” True he needs the advice and consent of the Senate. It is also true he doesn’t need their advice and consent if they are on recess. My question is why is this needed?
Granny Godzilla
June 30th, 2011
2:09 pm
Worst ever….
Especially the Granny brigade trained with custom numchuks.
A ensure filled pocketbook on each end of the chain.
Prescision. Accuracy. Danger. Good Nutrition.
Joe Mama
June 30th, 2011
2:10 pm
Righty — “My question is why is this needed?”
Don’t know. As I said, I’m going to read that section of the bill in detail this weekend, but it looks like some people here already know what it is and have posted some information on it. Maybe you should ask them; they seem better informed about it than me.
AmVet
June 30th, 2011
2:11 pm
Black man with his own private army = racists WORST fear evah!
Reminds me of the infamous Eddie Murphy quote in 48 Hours.
http://tinyurl.com/3teqx3m
Did I ever tell you guys I climbed Molehill Rainier once?
Granny Godzilla
June 30th, 2011
2:11 pm
Mighty Righty
Did you really just ask why we might need an a corps of quickly deployed medical professionals?
Really?
There’s some land near Ft. Calhhoun and Los Alamos for sale…interested?
willie lynch
June 30th, 2011
2:12 pm
Dave R.
June 30th, 2011
2:04 pm
I apologize Dave, I thought we were in another one of those “see how he managed to do without help” moments. Will gladly open mouth and insert foot.
Joe Mama
June 30th, 2011
2:12 pm
GG — “Especially the Granny brigade trained with custom numchuks.”
“A ensure filled pocketbook on each end of the chain.”
“Prescision. Accuracy. Danger. Good Nutrition.”
Don’t forget that they throw handfuls of Metamucil into their opponents’ eyes to blind them.
Thulsa Doom
June 30th, 2011
2:12 pm
Translation — “I made a claim I couldn’t support and Joe sunk my battleship. Waaaahhhhhhh.”- Joe mama
Joe mama,
You sank my battleship? Otay otay. I’ll admit I laughed out loud on that one. Plans for the weekend? Yep. Gonna head down to the beach condo in Gulf Shores and if there is an air show or anything happening over at Pensacola NAS I’ll head over and watch. Haven’t been on here hardly at all on the weekends lately and I damn sure won’t be this weekend. Got lots of salt water fishing, swimming, and drinkin to do at the hangout and the florabama.
Uncle Jed
June 30th, 2011
2:13 pm
This POTUS; what a guy, what a leader. FORE!!!
White House snubs McConnell invitation to Obama
Reuters) – The White House effectively turned down an invitation by Republican Senate Leader Mitch McConnell for President Barack Obama to visit his members on Capitol Hill on Thursday to discuss raising the debt limit.
White House press secretary Jay Carney, while not directly saying the invitation had been rejected, said Obama did not need to hear Republicans tell him what they would not support.
That, Carney said, was “not a conversation worth having.”
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Before I head out, did I mention: IT’S THE ECONOMY, STUPID! ?
Peter
June 30th, 2011
2:15 pm
Shouldn’t we do what Republican’s do….to balance the budget ?
1. Start a war
2. Give away money via “Cost Plus Contracts
3. Cut taxes
4. Give most American’s a $600 check in April..and tell them to spend, spend, spend.
Won’t that get us out of debt ?
That has been the Republican plan so far…… saying and doing are two things……and Republican’s did all the above.
Gee no wonder we are in the mess we are in …….duhhhhhhhh !
Republican’s ” Bankrupting America since Regan was in office ! ”
Please remember our slogan……. ” Deficits don’t matter “
Granny Godzilla
June 30th, 2011
2:16 pm
Joe Mama
The citrus flavor really stings.
Thulsa Doom
June 30th, 2011
2:16 pm
Mighty Righty,
Speaking of corpse did you say where Obama was speaking the other day and he lauded that Navy corpsman? Apparently he doesn’t know how to pronounce it but 3 times he said corpse men. Someone should have explained to him that its pronounced core and not corpse. Dan Quayle aint got nothin on Obama when it comes to gaffes.
Left wing management
June 30th, 2011
2:17 pm
Granny Godzilla: “Do you think Mighty Righty might show up at our annual dance nude under the Fireworks 4th of July Party?”
All I can say is anytime Mighty Righty is likely to show up nude you’ll see Left Wing Management going in the opposite direction.
BADA BING
June 30th, 2011
2:18 pm
michelle o’s Secret Militia Fashion and Training Tips
Black Panther Edition
When intimidating White Voters, raise that billy club high to really burn those deltoids and lats
Berets are out, out, out. Were they ever in
Lighten up that severe, jack-booted, military look with open toed Doc Martins ™
Lighten your skin. Remember, Half Black is the new Black
Armbands are all the rage. Use African flag colors for that ambiguous, Third World Army look
Tight, Mr. T, sleeveless tanks to show off all those hours in the prision gym
Go for a less threating look with red sunglass frames by Vanderbilt
Remember, Racial Hatred doesn’t have to be bland and boring
LOL
June 30th, 2011
2:18 pm
old guy
I get it I know those subsidies and Corp. Jets, etc… are all red herrings and diversionary tactics. I just think the Republicans should call his bluff so to speak. Annouce it to the media today, We will be cutting ALL subsidies,Big Oil, etc… as the President has suggested, now can we get on with making some real progress and get some serious spending cuts. You’ve got your revenue increase by us closing loopholes and ending subsidies that we can no longer afford. Now if we can just shrink the size of this government and get it out of businesses way, we can produce even more revenue by getting people back to WORK!!!!!!!
Thulsa Doom
June 30th, 2011
2:18 pm
White House press secretary Jay Carney, while not directly saying the invitation had been rejected, said Obama did not need to hear Republicans tell him what they would not support.
That, Carney said, was “not a conversation worth having.”
How is that for leadership? Not even talking to the other side regarding the nation’s fiscal crisis. Is this guy living in an alternate universe or something?
Peter
June 30th, 2011
2:18 pm
By the way …..since there is no such thing as “Global Warming”……
God must be just playing with TEXAS……. and the drought they are having.
Midori
June 30th, 2011
2:18 pm
Granny G — you’re killing me here
love that sense of humor!!
Joe Mama
June 30th, 2011
2:19 pm
Doom — “Gonna head down to the beach condo in Gulf Shores”
Well, do drive safely on your way to and from the Redneck Riviera. As I tell my wife (who is a notorious leadfoot), ‘I’m not worried about you; it’s the other nitwits on the road that scare me.’
I was hit by a drunk driver about 15 years ago; he totaled both our cars and did a header through his windshield. Then he GOT UP and asked what happened. I walked away with bruises and scratches because I was driving a big iron thing (Caprice Classic) and because I had my seat belt on and cinched up tight.
So play it safe. Keep the shiny side up and the greasy side down.
LOL
June 30th, 2011
2:20 pm
Thulsa Doom-
It’s typical of our “Spectator in Chief”. This guy couldn’t lead ants to a picnic.
Granny Godzilla
June 30th, 2011
2:20 pm
Thulsa
I love the Florabama…..Great place to be sure.
Thulsa Doom
June 30th, 2011
2:20 pm
How does Barrack not know that his kids are 13 and 10 instead of 12 and 10 as he stated the other day? Sheeeesh.
Peter
June 30th, 2011
2:21 pm
Don’t worry Thulsa Doom ..
Maybe Obama will take a page out of the GOP Economics hand book, and cut taxes, start a WAR, or give $600 in checks to most Americans.
That should work wonders won’t it ?
Granny Godzilla
June 30th, 2011
2:22 pm
Midori
Hi sweeetie, How ARE you?
Thulsa Doom
June 30th, 2011
2:23 pm
Granny Gozilla,
Well good Lord Granny. We actually do have something in common. If I ever see you down there I will buy you one of them there froo froo drinks with the umbrellas in them. They’re quite tasty.
getalife
June 30th, 2011
2:23 pm
“What I’d like to see them do is agree on the outlines of a 10-year plan and agree not to start either the revenue hikes or the spending cuts until we’ve got this recovery underway,” Clinton added. “The confidence that the Republicans say would be given to investors with a budget plan, they’d get whether we started this year or next year or the year after that, for that matter.”
For the first time, the former president is focusing his Clinton Global Initiative on creating jobs here in the United States. He suggested waiting for the recovery to take hold before pushing spending cuts and tax increases will make the issues clearer.
“We’ve got to get the jobs back in this economy again,” Clinton said. “The more people we get going back to work, the more businesses we start, that’ll bring up the revenue flow, and it will cut down on the expenses. Then, we’ll see what the real dimensions of our problem are.”
Unfortunately, however, Clinton fears Republicans’ “ideological conviction” about never raising taxes recalls the lead-up to government shutdowns in the ’90s, adding that the pressure on GOP candidates to toe the ideological line could hamstring their bids to unseat President Obama.”
We have done it before.
lovelyliz
June 30th, 2011
2:24 pm
“Reagan,” Vice President Dick Cheney famously declared in 2002, “proved deficits don’t matter.”
lovelyliz
June 30th, 2011
2:24 pm
The Republicans haven’t always been against increasing the federal debt ceiling. This is the first time in recent history (the past decade or so) that no Republican has voted for the increase. In fact, on most of the ten other votes to increase the federal debt limit that the Senate has taken since 1997, the Republicans provided the majority of the votes in favor.
Thulsa Doom
June 30th, 2011
2:24 pm
start a WAR- Peter
Correction Peter. Bush started 2 wars. I mean come on. Let’s give the man credit where credit is due.
poison pen
June 30th, 2011
2:25 pm
willie lynch
poison pen
” Have you ever managed a P&L? ”
Yes Willie, every week.
lovelyliz
June 30th, 2011
2:25 pm
during the Bush presidency, the current GOP leadership team voted 19 times to increase debt limit. During his tenure, the U.S. national debt doubled
Mitch McConnell and John Boehner voted for all
Granny Godzilla
June 30th, 2011
2:25 pm
Thulsa
Can ya’ make a Jack and water?
Tundra Dude
June 30th, 2011
2:26 pm
White House snubs McConnell invitation to Obama
Reuters) – The White House effectively turned down an invitation by Republican Senate Leader Mitch McConnell for President Barack Obama to visit his members on Capitol Hill on Thursday to discuss raising the debt limit.
Should be nothing to discuss. The 3 Hypocrite/Stooges, McConnell, Cantor, and Bonehead, all voted for raising the debt ceiling _7_ times for Bush (the Frugal). Was there any requirement for budget cuts……??
lovelyliz
June 30th, 2011
2:27 pm
At the beginning of the Bush presidency, the United States debt limit was $5.95 trillion. Despite promises that he would pay off the debt in 10 years, Bush increased the debt to $9.815 trillionby the end of his term, with plenty of help from the four Republicans currently holding Congressional leadership positions: Speaker John Boehner, House Majority Leader Eric Cantor, Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, and Senate Minority Whip Jon Kyl. ThinkProgress compiled a breakdown of the five debt limit increases that took place during the Bush presidency and how the four Republican leaders voted:
June 2002: Congress approves a $450 billion increase, raising the debt limit to $6.4 trillion. McConnell, Boehner, and Cantor vote “yea”, Kyl votes “nay.”
May 2003: Congress approves a $900 billion increase, raising the debt limit to $7.384 trillion. All four approve.
November 2004: Congress approves an $800 billion increase, raising the debt limit to $8.1 trillion. All four approve.
March 2006: Congress approves a $781 billion increase, raising the debt limit to $8.965 trillion. All four approve.
September 2007: Congress approves an $850 billion increase, raising the debt limit to $9.815 trillion. All four approve.
Peter
June 30th, 2011
2:27 pm
Yes lovelyliz ….The Republican’s created a larger government, and more expenses than ever…..
One blogger noted Bush collected more in Tax money then Clinton…..but we know what happened next.
He spent like a drunken Republican Sailor.
Republican’s only know how to bankroll the rich, and who cares about the rest of the country !
Dave R.
June 30th, 2011
2:27 pm
Hope & Putt’s ™ political advisers should be fired.
He is sooo being set-up by the GOP right now.
The House will pass a deficit reduction plan.
The Senate will initially balk, but cave.
He’ll have to sign it or he’ll be blamed for defaulting.
His fawning, slobbering minions in the media won’t go to bat for him.
Book it, Dano!
Mighty Righty
June 30th, 2011
2:28 pm
Granny,non
You choose to believe there is a civilian corp of medical professonals consisting of Officers, Warrant Officers, and officers who can be called to active duty by the president and/or surgeon general. I’m just not that gullible. Why would Obama say he wanted an army bigger and better equiped than our military and in one speech in Colorado Springs said he wanted 500,000 in this army. Where were these pepole during Katrina? In fact where are they now, North Dakota, South Dakota, Missouri, Iowa, Illinois, Mississippi, Louisiana, Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, Alabama? FEMA hasn’t showed up. And this new medical army, havn’t heard from them. Maybe they are working for Justice and ATF selling guns to Mexicans.
At A Loss For Words
June 30th, 2011
2:28 pm
This is not a joking matter at all. Have you been paying attention to what is happening in Greece? Riots in the streets. Police firing tear gas at their own people. 40% unemployment.
Yes, we need to raise the debt ceiling AND cut spending. We should start by cutting foreign aid and military spending. Then we should raise tariffs on all imported goods.
Thulsa Doom
June 30th, 2011
2:29 pm
lovelyliz
June 30th, 2011
2:24 pm
“Reagan,” Vice President Dick Cheney famously declared in 2002, “proved deficits don’t matter.”
A widely misunderstood quote. According to some of the believers in the the premise of the Laeffer curve it is freely acknowledged that when you cut marginal tax rates that in the short term deficits may grow but in the longer term that tax revenues will increase and subsequent deficits decrease. Whether you believe the Laeffer curve or not it is the thinking behind the idea that in the very short term that deficits don’t matter if you’re going to reap greater tax revenue longer term.
Jm
June 30th, 2011
2:29 pm
Halperin calls Obama a d-ck, and he’s 90% correct
Dave R.
June 30th, 2011
2:29 pm
Yes, yes, lovely liz and Peter. We ALL know what happened in the past.
Many of us disagreed with it then, but the past no longer matters.
Please try to drag yourselves into the realm of the present, ‘K?
Peter
June 30th, 2011
2:30 pm
Yes Thulsa Doom…..
Let’s give Bush and the GOP credit….. the Wars and economic implosion is all theirs !
It is also nice to see reality…..as in how many time the GOP raised the debt ceiling while Bush was in office……….gee it wasn’t a bad idea then……wait until the “recession “.
Granny Godzilla
June 30th, 2011
2:30 pm
Mighty
AGAIN paranoia is really wimpy.
AmVet
June 30th, 2011
2:30 pm
Good on the Uppity Muslim. Tell McConnell to put on his big boy pants. Wasting people’s time with his do-nothingness is counter-productive.
i.e., put up or shut up.
Grow a spine and for once in your mealy-mouthed career stand up to your corporate overlords, ya toadie, and say, “Sorry that it had to happen on my watch boys, but your gravy train is pulling into the station. Quit bitchin’ like socialists and start acting like capitalists. Otherwise, Barry’s gonna sick his new black army on Kentucky!”
Ah yes, the Redneck Riviera. Great place, just too many rednecks!
Midori
June 30th, 2011
2:30 pm
I’m good Mrs. G.
Just trying to deal with this heat.
Peter
June 30th, 2011
2:31 pm
HA HA HA Dave R………. seems you want the fox running the hen house yet again ?
getalife
June 30th, 2011
2:31 pm
Dave,
He could say he will veto anything but a clean debt limit bill and put the blame on the gop.
Jm
June 30th, 2011
2:31 pm
Halperin left off: gutless, worthless and utterly lacking in any semblance of leadership
Thulsa Doom
June 30th, 2011
2:32 pm
lovelyliz
June 30th, 2011
2:27 pm
At the beginning of the Bush presidency, the United States debt limit was $5.95 trillion. Despite promises that he would pay off the debt in 10 years, Bush increased the debt to $9.815 trillionby the end of his term, with plenty of help from the four Republicans currently holding Congressional leadership positions:
True enough. As a matter of fact I believe someone posted earlier that in Bush’s 8 years the debt ran up was a little over 4 trillion. In Obama’s less than 3 years in office his debt has racked up roughly 3.9 trillion according to that post earlier. So which is worse? A little over 4 trillion in 8 years or 3.9 trillion in less than 3 years?
godless heathen
June 30th, 2011
2:32 pm
“Reuters) – The White House effectively turned down an invitation by Republican Senate Leader Mitch McConnell for President Barack Obama to visit his members on Capitol Hill on Thursday to discuss raising the debt limit.”
“White House press secretary Jay Carney, while not directly saying the invitation had been rejected, said Obama did not need to hear Republicans tell him what they would not support.
That, Carney said, was “not a conversation worth having.”
Translation: There is a vacation to pack for.
Granny Godzilla
June 30th, 2011
2:32 pm
Oh and Mighty…
Where were these people during…..and you ramble on…
What years were/are those things happening?
When does Obamacare ( I’m thinking we should keep that name) take effect?
Time and space….
Dave R.
June 30th, 2011
2:33 pm
“He could say he will veto anything but a clean debt limit bill and put the blame on the gop.”
Nope. Won’t work. He’s already admitted that cuts are needed, and his VP has been in all the negotiations.
Politically, THAT ship sailed months ago.
Peter
June 30th, 2011
2:34 pm
Hey Thusla Doom….all this……Whether you believe the Laeffer curve or not it is the thinking behind the idea that in the very short term that deficits don’t matter if you’re going to reap greater tax revenue longer term.
Gee if taxes are cut as with Bush….that all works out ?
And are the economics of the world, still in the same place as when that idea was hatched ?
getalife
June 30th, 2011
2:34 pm
Dave,
He could say he will veto anything but the deal they made.
Is that ship sailing?
Dave R.
June 30th, 2011
2:36 pm
“seems you want the fox running the hen house yet again ?”
No, Peter, I do not. You are NOT qualified to put words in my mouth or make conclusions for me, got it?
But playing the blame game and saying that the GOP did it (when deficits and debt were much smaller, btw, and therefore less threatening to our economic health), doesn’t fix the problem we have TODAY.
Peter
June 30th, 2011
2:36 pm
wow Thulsa Doom…. I guess you weren’t around for the recession were you ?
All that debt Obama racked up…….. or was it really the WAR costs finally got into the real budget numbers ?
Thulsa Doom
June 30th, 2011
2:37 pm
Peter,
And how many wars are we in now? In addition to Agh and Iraq we are bombing in Libya, bombing pakistan, and depending on who you believe we are supposedly conducting covert bombing runs in Yemen. And I saw that on CNN not Fox.
As for the debt ceiling we will once again have to raise it. Its inevitable and the Republicans will cave on the issue. They have to. Blaming Bush doesn’t alleviate the even more grandiose deficit spending that has been occurring under Obama. Both deserve blame but Bush is not in office now. Obama is and the situation is now more dire than ever.
Dave R.
June 30th, 2011
2:37 pm
“He could say he will veto anything but the deal they made.”
You would have to have a “deal’ first. He doesn’t have one.
Keep trying.
Dave R.
June 30th, 2011
2:38 pm
“That, Carney said, was “not a conversation worth having.”
Translation: Tee time at 4:15.
AmVet
June 30th, 2011
2:38 pm
How long has Mealy-mouthed McConnell been in Washington, anyway? 30 years? Like a boatload of the other incompetents?
Talk about being a HUGE part of the nation’s growing problems over the past three decades.
But they have so much money and hubris, they are shameless…
Peter
June 30th, 2011
2:38 pm
Gee Dave R…. Yes the Republican’s did it…and I don’t care to have the Foxes running the Hen House……I posed a question……perhaps you didn’t get that part ?
So Bush’s WAR’s, and bailing out Corporate America was that small debt you speak of ?
getalife
June 30th, 2011
2:39 pm
Dave,
I think they have a deal on the table.
Getting the gop to vote for it is a different story.
They will need the dems in the house.
Thulsa Doom
June 30th, 2011
2:39 pm
Peter,
The recession was a bad one. But we’ve had numerous recessions since WW 2 and have recovered well from every one of them. The key is what you do to pull out of them and the economic results show that this is the worst recovery ever. When things bottom out there is nowhere to go but up. Yet we are still stuck in neutral. The recession can be blamed on Bush. The anemic recovery is all Obama.
Peter
June 30th, 2011
2:40 pm
Yes Thusla Doom……. All has cought up with us…..SO things are more dire today.
Not so hard to fathom…..kind of like having a $20 K credit card debt, and borrowing to pay off the minimum balance.
Peter
June 30th, 2011
2:42 pm
Yes Thusla Doom…. We need to recover…But corporate America has out sourced America workers, and the entire economic landscape has changed…..
All the rules have changed, but one…… GOP won’t tax the rich.
Mighty Righty
June 30th, 2011
2:43 pm
Lovely Liz
For your reading and enjoyment.
Increase in national deby by president:
Ronald Reagan’s First Term – $656 billion increase
> Ronald Reagan’s Second Term – $1.036 trillion increase
> George H.W. Bush’s Term – $1.587 trillion increase
> Bill Clinton’s First Term – $1.122 trillion increase
> Bill Clinton’s Second Term – $418 billion increase
> George W. Bush’s First Term – $1.885 trillion increase
> George W. Bush’s Second Term – $3.014 trillion increase
> Barack Obama’s First “Year” – $1.573 trillion increase
AmVet
June 30th, 2011
2:43 pm
Last week, the House voted overwhelmingly against giving Obama the authority to continue the military mission but stopped short of cutting off funds. House Republicans and Democrats contend that Obama has not provided a compelling rationale for the operation and ignored Congress in not seeking its authority.
Seventy Democrats abandoned the president on the 295-123 vote.
Thin how many GIs would still be alive if 70 Republicans (instead of 7!!!!!) had had the balls to stand up to George of the Bungle…
getalife
June 30th, 2011
2:43 pm
“The anemic recovery is all Obama.”
Check the jobs gained every month until the gop played politics with a default.
It is the gop’s fault.
Peter
June 30th, 2011
2:44 pm
Hey Mighty Righty ……
How much of Obama’s $1.573 trillion increase had to do with Corporate Bailout ?
larry
June 30th, 2011
2:46 pm
The White House effectively turned down an invitation by Republican Senate Leader Mitch McConnell for President Barack Obama to visit his members on Capitol Hill on Thursday to discuss raising the debt limit.”
“White House press secretary Jay Carney, while not directly saying the invitation had been rejected, said Obama did not need to hear Republicans tell him what they would not support.
That, Carney said, was “not a conversation worth having.”
Didnt McConnell say the Senate Republicans main job was to make the President a one-termer?
And people wonder why the President will not meet with him ?
willie lynch
June 30th, 2011
2:46 pm
poison pen
June 30th, 2011
2:25 pm
And it is an understanding you employ that by cutting the spending of your business you will grow that business?
Mighty Righty
June 30th, 2011
2:46 pm
Granny Godzilla
June 30th, 2011
2:32 pm
Sorry, I thought you could tell by the list. These are natural disasters which have occured this calender year. I understand your confusion. Between campaigning and golf, Obama hasn’t had time to bite his lip and do a flyover for the cameras.
larry
June 30th, 2011
2:48 pm
How much of Obama’s $1.573 trillion increase had to do with Corporate Bailout ?
And puttng the costs of the wars on the books instead of using supplemental budgets to fund them?
Peter
June 30th, 2011
2:49 pm
Hey Mighty Right…… Now I am wondering between these two numbers…….
> George W. Bush’s Second Term – $3.014 trillion increase
> Barack Obama’s First “Year” – $1.573 trillion increase
How much of this money was Corporate Bailouts ?
Peter
June 30th, 2011
2:50 pm
Gee Larry…… this statement…..And puttng the costs of the wars on the books instead of using supplemental budgets to fund them?
There you go….no more Voodoo GOP economics you mean ?
Mighty Righty
June 30th, 2011
2:50 pm
Peter
June 30th, 2011
2:44 pm
Hey Mighty Righty ……
How much of Obama’s $1.573 trillion increase had to do with Corporate Bailout ?
According to Obama we got all that money back. So I guess I waould say zero.
Thulsa Doom
June 30th, 2011
2:51 pm
Peter,
I have a feeling that the Bush tax cuts will end. But if we do end the Bush tax cuts we should probably just wait until the economy is on more solid footing before doing so. My only fear is that ending them during a precarious economic period may vault us right back into a double dip recession.
Incidentally the last CBO numbers I saw showed that for FY 2011 that the Bush tax cuts cost the Treasur6 46 billion dollars. If the FY 2011 deficit was 1.74 trillion than that 46 billion would only have reduced the deficit to roughly 1.6 trillion. The obvious problem to any fair minded person still remains spending- not tax cuts.
Joe Mama
June 30th, 2011
2:53 pm
Dave — “Yes, yes, lovely liz and Peter. We ALL know what happened in the past.”
“Many of us disagreed with it then, but the past no longer matters.”
NIFS
I’d LOVE to see some actual contemporary quotes from conservatives who disagreed with it then. Every Republican who responds to that accusation NOW says it was a mistake, but I don’t recall any of y’all having religion on deficit spending until President Obama was elected. And I’ve never seen any quotes to demonstrate otherwise.
Peter
June 30th, 2011
2:53 pm
Well them Mighty Righty….are you sure that is reflected in the number them ?
Absolutely positive beyond a doubt……… would that number decrease with the pay backs ?
larry
June 30th, 2011
2:53 pm
There you go….no more Voodoo GOP economics you mean ?
Yes, using supplementals to make the deficits look better than they were.
I would like to know why people would trust the GOP with money anyway. All you have to do is look at their track record the last 100 years.
Recon (2nd.and 3rd.)
June 30th, 2011
2:55 pm
I liked Kyles commentary on Obama the budget tenther.
WOODSTOCK MIKE
June 30th, 2011
2:55 pm
@Peter
I see your comments about Bush spending like a drunken sailor. Well, I guess I’m confused. Spending now is at levels never before seen in our country’s history so does this mean that you are against what Obama is doing?
Joe Mama
June 30th, 2011
2:56 pm
Righty — > Bill Clinton’s First Term – $1.122 trillion increase
> Bill Clinton’s Second Term – $418 billion increase
> George W. Bush’s First Term – $1.885 trillion increase
> George W. Bush’s Second Term – $3.014 trillion increase
Oh, look. President Bush increased the deficit more in his second term than President Clinton did in his whole eight years in office. But IOKIYAR.
Granny Godzilla
June 30th, 2011
2:56 pm
Mighty Righty
Sorry but I can’t understand YOUR confusion…(actually I can but am trying to be patient and understanding with you)
AGAIN….what year does the the healthcare bill take effect?
(You know the one with the GREAT BIG SCAREY ARMY OF SEIU AND ACORN AND NEW BLACK PANTHERS AND RAGING GRANNIES WITH NUMCHUKS)
Adam
June 30th, 2011
2:56 pm
Dave R: (when deficits and debt were much smaller, btw, and therefore less threatening to our economic health)
Until we have ANY period of time in which our debt and deficit both go down rather than up, this is a useless statement. If the GOP wins the presidency, that argument could again be made. And guess what the arguments from the GOP side would be? You guessed it, blame the previous admin.
It’s useless to play the blame game when it comes to responsibility for the debt and deficit. It’s ALL of our responsibility to deal with it and we must do so responsibly.
And please, stop pretending the democrats only want tax increases just because the GOP DEFINITELY only wants spending cuts. It’s either deal with it responsibly, or only pass spending cuts. Which will it be?
Mighty Righty
June 30th, 2011
2:57 pm
I’m sorry you don’t lke the deficit figures for Obama’s first year, but would you like to guess at the numbers for his second and third years?
Peter
June 30th, 2011
2:58 pm
larry ……. Folks who have a business love the GOP….. the tax advantages are marvelous, and they typically live in their happy world providing the business is doing great.
Typically they don’t care about others as long as they are getting theirs…..Corporate America is the True example….. They are doing great, and it is not because they care about Americans !
Dave R.
June 30th, 2011
2:58 pm
Peter, if you don’t understand the difference between a $5 trillion debt and a $14 trillion debt rising by $1.4 trillion each year, then no serious discussion is possible with you.
Granny Godzilla
June 30th, 2011
2:58 pm
Mighty
You sneaky lil’ debbil….are you trying to move the goal posts from “scarey secret army” to something else?
Adam
June 30th, 2011
2:59 pm
Joe Mama: And I’ve never seen any quotes to demonstrate otherwise.
In fact you can find many quotes that show the opposite.
Scott
June 30th, 2011
2:59 pm
Joe Mama. Apparently, you do not understand the whole concept of integovernmental holdings and intergovernmental transfers. Like I told you before, he took money from social security and pretty much transferred the debt he took, giving the impression that he ran a surplus. Regardless of whether it was public debt or debt that was absorbed by social security, he still incurred debt and you, like a fool, fell for it. If he really ran with a surplus, wouldn’t the overall national debt have gone down every year? Here are the numbers from the treasury. Now, you have to do some work but here is what the national debt debt was at the start of every fiscal year of Clinton’s term. Before you start acting all high and mighty and try writing in a condescending manner to me(which coincidentally was what you accused me of doing yesterday when you ran away like a whopped dog because you go smoked), perhaps you should look at the real numbers. Do a little in-depth research next time and include ALL of the facts…not just the ones that pretty much ignore intergovernmental transfers. Now run away. I am done proving you wrong again.
Fiscal
Year Year
Ending National Debt Deficit
FY1993 09/30/1993 $4.411488 trillion
FY1994 09/30/1994 $4.692749 trillion $281.26 billion
FY1995 09/29/1995 $4.973982 trillion $281.23 billion
FY1996 09/30/1996 $5.224810 trillion $250.83 billion
FY1997 09/30/1997 $5.413146 trillion $188.34 billion
FY1998 09/30/1998 $5.526193 trillion $113.05 billion
FY1999 09/30/1999 $5.656270 trillion $130.08 billion
FY2000 09/29/2000 $5.674178 trillion $17.91 billion
FY2001 09/28/2001 $5.807463 trillion $133.29 billion
Is it 2012 yet
June 30th, 2011
3:00 pm
Getalife
Why don’t you do it?
How much are you paid by the donkey party to throw your two liners in the blog spewing your hatred for the GOP?
If this was a non donkey blog, your childish mission would not be tollerated. You sound like the little boy who used to always get his but kicked on the playground and then would go crying to the teacher that you were bullied by those mean girls.
Grow up and get a pair
Dave R.
June 30th, 2011
3:00 pm
“Until we have ANY period of time in which our debt and deficit both go down rather than up, this is a useless statement.”
No, the definition of a useless statement is any statement you make, Adam.
WOODSTOCK MIKE
June 30th, 2011
3:00 pm
Gotta love Adam, quite a level headed guy, and he’s spot on, debt and deficit has been caused by both parties, not just one.
Thulsa Doom
June 30th, 2011
3:01 pm
Every Republican who responds to that accusation NOW says it was a mistake, but I don’t recall any of y’all having religion on deficit spending until President Obama was elected.- Joe Mama
I would disagree with you on that Joe. I think most fair minded people, Republicans and cons like myself, were very disappointed to see the deficits and debt balloon under Bush. There is a reason the Dems took over Congress and the presidency- people in general and even cons were disgusted with the deficit spending not to mention being doubtful of the need to be in 2 wars in hindsight.
As to the politicians well of course the Repubs in Congress didn’t whine about deficits when they were in power. Why? Well. They’re worthless politicians of course.
But I don’t think many repubs on here will defend spending under Bush. Its just that he ran up roughly 4 trillion in debt in 8 years and Obama has run up just under 4 trillion in less than 3 years. The spending problem has worsened exponentially and not gotten better. And that’s what I think has people very upset. It was bad enough with Bush and now is even worse under Obama in terms of deficit spending.
Dave R.
June 30th, 2011
3:03 pm
Memo to self: Send strongly worded letter to Yerkes Primate Center. Re: stalkers.
Adam
June 30th, 2011
3:03 pm
Scott: Your numbers show a steady downward trend in the amount the debt increased while Clinton was in office. Care for some intellectual honesty as to why?
Hint: It’s the interest on the debt.
Sure, he messed around with all of the revenues to make that start to happen, but had that trend continued the deficit would be going DOWN each year rather than up. We might even have a “real” surplus overall by now.
Peter
June 30th, 2011
3:03 pm
Hey WOODSTOCK MIKE…….. I would never say I agree with all of Obama’s decisions on spending, but frankly he cares about American’s in a way the GOP has never shown.
I hope like heck we get out of Iraq and Afghanistan soon, and I have no issue spending here at home.
There are bridges, and lost of infrastructure that needs work, and I would like to see more money go in that direction, where at least we can tax the workers and companies doing the jobs, and create a better America for all.
Guy over there
June 30th, 2011
3:03 pm
Jay, your column makes no sense whatsoever.
Adam
June 30th, 2011
3:04 pm
It is useless to say that at some point in the past, debts and deficits were smaller. That argument can be made infinitely into the future unless we start turning it around.
Peter
June 30th, 2011
3:05 pm
Hey Dave R. …….how much of the 14 Trillion is interest ? Kind like a bad credit card.
i speak the truth US
June 30th, 2011
3:05 pm
Great job GA
If Deal cant manage his OWN money what makes you think he can manage your money??
WOODSTOCK MIKE
June 30th, 2011
3:05 pm
@Peter
Your comments are foolish, first of all, do you realize what employment numbers would be like without corporate America? Do you know many people that work for corporate America? Corporate America gives millions of Americans quite a nice life with retirement benefits, insurance, decent pay, just to name a few things. Owning a business isn’t for everyone. That’s why we all don’t own a business. Of course there should be great reward for someone that runs a profitable business on their own, are you kidding me? Sounds like you have some real issues, you hate corporate America and you bash business owner’s? So what do you like?
Mighty Righty
June 30th, 2011
3:08 pm
Here is the missing 2010 deficit and the projected 2011 deficit.
Obama’s 2nd year 1.293
Obama’s 3rd year 1.645
Brosephus
June 30th, 2011
3:08 pm
Its just that he ran up roughly 4 trillion in debt in 8 years and Obama has run up just under 4 trillion in less than 3 years. The spending problem has worsened exponentially and not gotten better.
In pure numbers, Bush doubled Clinton, and Obama will probably double Bush. The question I have yet to see any analysis on is what effect does inflation, population growth, and other real-life factors have on those numbers. I have yet to see anybody tackle the growing debt from that standpoint, so I don’t think it’s fair to compare any one president to another based on just the dollar amounts.
WOODSTOCK MIKE
June 30th, 2011
3:09 pm
@Peter
So you bash Bush for spending and it’s okay for Obama to spend? Guess I don’t quite follow…
Peter
June 30th, 2011
3:10 pm
WOW…… WOODSTOCK MIKE….
You haven’t noticed the pay between employee and CEO has grown ridicules in the last 15 years ?
You haven’t noticed jobs farmed to India and the such to save Corporations money at the expense of American’s ?
i speak the truth US
June 30th, 2011
3:11 pm
umm guys dont forget the difference between Clinton and Bush/Obama era
1. Inflation
2. Wars
I honestly believe the wars in Iraq/Afghan will end up damaging this country for decades.
Peter
June 30th, 2011
3:11 pm
OK WOODSTOCK MIKE…..
Given the near depression Obama inherited…..what should he be doing ?
I say raising taxes…….especially on the rich. Also getting us out of Iraq ASAP.
Dave R.
June 30th, 2011
3:11 pm
“Hey Dave R. …….how much of the 14 Trillion is interest ?”
Lots.
Thus ends another episode of ‘One Word Answers to Stupid Questions’.
Dave R.
June 30th, 2011
3:13 pm
“Scott: Your numbers show a steady downward trend in the amount the debt increased while Clinton was in office. Care for some intellectual honesty as to why?”
A GOP Congress that actually controlled spending.
Next?
Scott
June 30th, 2011
3:14 pm
Adam, I am with you on that. I am just merely contending the point that Clinton ran with a surplus every year because in fact he did not. It is a lie that keeps getting repeated over and over and over and it is complete BS. Yes, the amount started going down which brings me to my next thought on this. While you talking about intellectual honesty, how about you tell us who took control of Congress to help these numbers start moving in that direction?
Adam
June 30th, 2011
3:14 pm
Clinton’s record: His year-by-year budgets began to see more revenue than spending, a division that grew wider (revenue goes up and/or spending goes down) with each year. This is how you start to pay down debt. This is NOT how you immediately eliminate debt entirely, nor is it how you stop interest from still topping the amount in “surplus” that you have.
Graph form:
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_9UK4EgvXMx0/S9toS5rwXZI/AAAAAAAAACc/8JK15oLYp2Q/s1600/natdebt.gif
If you look carefully and remember anything about math, you can see a few points during which the curve started to go upward dramatically towards a vertical line, then a point where it started to curve back towards a horizontal line, then back to a vertical.
The vertical trends mean spending was increasing year by year. The horizontal trends mean spending was decreasing year by year.
Those points:
1980: Starts going up
1992: Begins to have horizontal trend
2000: Begins to have vertical trend again
Who were the presidents during these times?
Clinton’s record is that of attempted deficit reduction, with a potential for a continuing trend that would have succeeded.
Peter
June 30th, 2011
3:14 pm
Gee Dave R. ……Not a stupid question at all……
You are saying Obama is spending this money, when actually he inherited most of the debt, and the interest that goes with it.
Adam
June 30th, 2011
3:15 pm
Dave R: A GOP Congress that actually controlled spending.
And the GOP Congresses during the years of 1980-1992 (even excluding the years they didn’t have control)? 2000-2006?
Peter
June 30th, 2011
3:16 pm
Hey Dave R….
How about Clinton shut down the government until the GOP Congress got on board with him.
Chris
June 30th, 2011
3:16 pm
“The fact that we are here today to debate raising America’s debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the U.S. Government can’t pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government’s reckless fiscal policies. … Increasing America’s debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that ‘the buck stops here. Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better.” – Barack Obama 2006
Dave R.
June 30th, 2011
3:16 pm
“You are saying Obama is spending this money, when actually he inherited most of the debt, and the interest that goes with it.”
What part of “you don’t get to speak for me nor make conclusions on my behalf” do you NOT get, Peter?
Logical Dude
June 30th, 2011
3:17 pm
Scott says: Regardless of whether it was public debt or debt that was absorbed by social security, he still incurred debt and you, like a fool, fell for it.
But then BUSH fell for it too! He said that all of this surplus should go back to the people in tax cuts!
Or don’t your remember that?
Scott
June 30th, 2011
3:17 pm
“There are bridges, and lost of infrastructure that needs work, and I would like to see more money go in that direction, where at least we can tax the workers and companies doing the jobs, and create a better America for all”
Again with this BS. That was what the Stimulus was for Holy crap. Shovel ready jobs. I know the term is now a joke in Obama’s eye but that stupid bill was money that came out my pocket and into the hands of people that got him elected.
Adam
June 30th, 2011
3:18 pm
Scott: GOP wasn’t in control the first couple of years of Clinton’s presidency, and the trend had been started already. In fact, GOP was in control a good portion of the congressional time period from 1980 to 2006, and the spending vs revenue during that period had trends correlating to the presidency by party, not congress.
Thulsa Doom
June 30th, 2011
3:18 pm
I would never say I agree with all of Obama’s decisions on spending, but frankly he cares about American’s in a way the GOP has never shown.- Peter
Peter,
I respect your opinion but this is what drives me crazy sometimes about liberals. You think that Obama “cares about Americans” more than the GOP. That is just your perception and not a fact. Its just your opinion. And even if you were right you can care about America all you want but if your policies aren’t working then quite frankly it doesn’t matter how much you care. I honestly believe that Fidel Castro cares about his country- that he is a nationalist and cares about and wants Cuba to do well. But it doesn’t matter how much he cares if indeed he does because his policies are what has made the country poor.
Peter
June 30th, 2011
3:19 pm
Hey WOODSTOCK MIKE, Please read…. How 11 Corporate Titans Profited After Failure
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/How-11-Corporate-Titans-usnews-474283494.html?x=0
Seems these CEOs did great after screwing up royally……. this is the Corporate America I am talking about.
Left wing management
June 30th, 2011
3:19 pm
Dave R., why do you not want us to raise the debt ceiling? How ultimately do you justify such a step?
Dave R.
June 30th, 2011
3:19 pm
“And the GOP Congresses during the years of 1980-1992 (even excluding the years they didn’t have control)? 2000-2006?”
Adam, using examples that do NOT apply to an answer is called deflection. It is the first resort of those who have lost their argument.
As has been stated before, GOP control does not automatically mean spending controls, while Democrat control guarantees spending excesses.
Mighty Righty
June 30th, 2011
3:20 pm
Granny Godzilla
June 30th, 2011
2:58 pm
Mighty
You sneaky lil’ debbil….are you trying to move the goal posts from “scarey secret army” to something else?
Sorry Granny, didn’t mean to dis you. Missed your post. I do have things besides this to take care of. I will wager a friendly wager, before this summer is over, Obama’s “organized” thugs will cause trouble in several cities. If I am wrong, I will so admit publicly just after labor day.
Adam
June 30th, 2011
3:20 pm
Also important to note, even under Clinton the debt was going up when we were doing reasonable things and carrying balanced year-to-year budgets. What makes you think we can make that deficit go down immediately, especially through spending cuts or tax revenue increases alone?
Logical Dude
June 30th, 2011
3:20 pm
Woodstock Mike: Gotta love Adam, quite a level headed guy, and he’s spot on, debt and deficit has been caused by both parties, not just one.
You and Adam are both correct. EVERYBODY IS AT FAULT.
Now why are we wasting time on “but YOUR PARTY did this” “oh yeah? well YOUR PARTY did that”. Can we at least discuss the RESOLUTIONS of how to fix this mess?
Me? I blame myself for getting sick and needing Medicare at 17 and staying on it for 10 years. No wait, 13 years? dang it. . . getting old. . .
Peter
June 30th, 2011
3:20 pm
Yes Thulsa Doom.. the caring is my opinion….. of course.
Now was Dick Cheney caring about Americans, when his office created the “Cost Plus Contracts” ?
Dave R.
June 30th, 2011
3:21 pm
“Dave R., why do you not want us to raise the debt ceiling? How ultimately do you justify such a step?”
LWM, what part of “you don’t get to speak for me, nor make conclusions on my behalf” do you NOT get?
Adam
June 30th, 2011
3:21 pm
Dave R: while Democrat control guarantees spending excesses.
Please show me your statistical data that proves this. Remember, you have to show total Democratic control versus total Republican control, versus mixed.
Scott
June 30th, 2011
3:22 pm
Peter, “How about Clinton shut down the government until the GOP Congress got on board with him.”
HAHAHAHA. So what is it? When the government was going to shut down under Obama, it was the Republican controlled House’s fault. Remember all of the Dems blaming the Republicans saying that they were holding the country hostage by the budget. When the government shut down under Clinton, it was Clinton that did this to apparently get the GOP on board with him. What is it? Oh I see. The answer is that it is whatever reason that is most beneficial to the reputation of the Dem in power at the time. Peter. thanks for that joke of an answer. I needed that good laugh.
AmVet
June 30th, 2011
3:23 pm
Peter @3:15, that is the one fact that really chaps my ___.
From 1995 – 2005 the average American worker saw his income go up 4%.
While at the exact same time, CEO pay went up 240%.
And the modern day flagellants, who apparently love taking it on the chin, think this is the proper and natural evolution of American capitalism.
But their kids are gonna hate them…
Left wing management
June 30th, 2011
3:23 pm
Dave R. “LWM, what part of “you don’t get to speak for me, nor make conclusions on my behalf” do you NOT get?”
You lost me. Did I miss something about your position on this? It was a straightforward question.
WOODSTOCK MIKE
June 30th, 2011
3:24 pm
@Peter
What impact would it have if you lowered CEO’s pay? If the government came out tomorrow and said a CEO can only make a certain amount it would have little or no impact on anything. So it sounds to me that you simply have an issue with someone making alot of money. Does Alex Rodriguez deserve to make $25 million a year? Should Chipper Jones make $15 million a year putting up the numbers he has right now? Where would you draw the line? There is only a handful of CEO’s that are overpaid. For the most part these people do a fantastic job, take a look at the highest paid CEO’s in America and tell me these guys aren’t fantastic at what they do, good for them is what I say.
Guy over there
June 30th, 2011
3:24 pm
“They could, theoretically, still get paid. But we couldn’t pay our own soldiers. No government salaries would be paid at all, including for those employees who would supposedly be sending out the checks to China and elsewhere.”
What a flat out lie. This is nothing but typical Democrat fear mongering. Every single election cycle that comes by, liberals like to try to scare people by saying “granny will die if you elect Repubs” and now we have Jay saying soldiers won’t get paid.
Jay, where did you earn your economics degree from?
Dave R.
June 30th, 2011
3:25 pm
Adam, I am NOT going to do your homework for you just because you are too lazy and afraid that your preconceived notions will be dashed on the rocks of reality.
I have shown that multiple times on this blog and I’m not going to dance to your whiny tune any longer.
Google is your friend.
Peter
June 30th, 2011
3:25 pm
Scott……. you are welcome ! My answer is correct…..but hey spin it anyway you would like !
WOODSTOCK MIKE
June 30th, 2011
3:26 pm
@AmVet
Once again, please explain what the effect would be if a CEO made less money?
Scott
June 30th, 2011
3:27 pm
Illogical dude. Funny thing is that I never said Bush was a great Pres. I just know he is far better than the guy occupying the white house right now. I think Bush’s problem was that he spent too much. He spent like a Democrat. He abandoned Rep principles and spent like a Dem. That was his one downfall. Part of the reason he had to spend was that Clinton cut so many good things from the budget that country actually needed(national security, intel, defnse) and replaced them with social programs, but Bush could have handled it differently. So…attack Bush all you want with me. I don’t care. He overspent and helped dig this country a grave. Unfortunately, Obama took it many steps further, dug deeper, jumped in, and started piling the dirt on top of us.
AmVet
June 30th, 2011
3:27 pm
More horible news vis a vis Mission Accomplished…
http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/meast/06/30/iraq.service.members.killed/index.html?hpt=hp_t2
Keep Up the Good Fight!
June 30th, 2011
3:27 pm
Uh oh, I see DaveR played the Yerkes card again. Part of his daily play. Dave needs some new material….its no wonder his constituents fired him.
Peter
June 30th, 2011
3:28 pm
Hey WOODSTOCK MIKE….. The example is real…..
I didn’t say they couldn’t make the money, it is just the discrepancy between the worker and CEO is way out of line today.
And all the guys making the “BIG MONEY”… ball players, CEOs, musicians, and whom ever…..well just tax them.
Scott
June 30th, 2011
3:28 pm
Peter…I am not spinning it at all. The facts are what make you look like a fool in making that statement.
Dave R.
June 30th, 2011
3:28 pm
LWM, I have no problem raising the debt limit, as long as there are deep, guaranteed spending cuts and tax reform in the way of closing loopholes and subsidies, but NO tax rate increases.
And a 2:1 ratio of cuts to debt limit increase as well.
BADA BING
June 30th, 2011
3:28 pm
michelle o’s Militia Fashion and Behavior Guide
Black Panther and Black Muslim Edition
When passing out Muslim Community Literature, never take no for an answer. Remember, YES WE FARRAKHAN
Camo Army Pants in Seale Brown and beige
Work those bowties!!!
Che T-shirts in a variety of summer colors
Save those retro afros for the cooler Fall weather, shaved heads rule
Power to the People!!!! 1/2 Black Power!!
Granny Godzilla
June 30th, 2011
3:29 pm
Mighty Righty
Considering you think SEIU and NEA members are Obama organized thugs – nope.
However…
if you want to bet that OBAMA’s SECRET ARMY as formed under the healthcare act causes trouble before 9/22/11 – hell yes I’ll take that bet.
But remember it’s got to be OBAMAS SECRET ARMY….as described in the passage you posted earlier….
Peter
June 30th, 2011
3:29 pm
HA HA HA……….. This is nothing but typical Democrat fear mongering. you mean like WMD ?
AmVet
June 30th, 2011
3:30 pm
Mike, what effect does it have that workers saw an annual increase of .4% for an entire decade?
Are you going to tell me they are not directly related?
Take a look around and take a guess…
Peter
June 30th, 2011
3:30 pm
Scott …Clinton shut down the government until he got what he wanted…….that is the fact.
too little time
June 30th, 2011
3:31 pm
sorry fuglyliz, but it is Congresses who increase debt limits and pass budgets. The debt limit was $8.9 trillion when DEMOCRATS took over Congress in 2006. Obama famously declared what an injustice it would be to increase it! The debt is now $14 Trillion. In just 5 short years, the Democrats have run the debt up by more than 50%. There is no excuse. If we increase that limit to 17 or 20 Trillion WITHOUT budget cuts, we will hit the new debt limit in 2 to 3 years.
Folks, threat of economic meltdown is the ONLY leverage that Republicans have to stop the madness NOW. There is no guarantee of Republicans winning both houses of Congress AND the Presidency in 2012. Thus, there is only now. If this doesn’t stop now, then it stops the day that China says “no more”. If it doesn’t stop now, then we put out fate in the hands of foreign bond buyers. THEY get to make the decisions for us they way that they are doing for Greece. If it doesn’t stop now, then the gig is up… anyway. The Democrats had a choice when they put in for a trillion in stimulus. They had a choice when they increased spending in every government sector. They had a choice when they shoved ObamaCare through. Given a choice, they will CONTINUE to spend like there is no tomorrow. They wouldn’t even accept 30 billion in cuts. They wouldn’t pass a budget for two years. While Democrats are well able to spend other people’s money and other country’s money, Democrats are unable to govern. They only tool left in the bag for the Republicans that is sure to work is the threat of the debt ceiling. Democrats can still give up on tax increases. Democrats can still control which massive cuts take place. They have a choice and a voice. But they refuse to use it because they believe that the people not blame them for laying on $5 trillion since 2006. They believe that they spend 5 Trillion dollars and blame it on GWB, and that they will be held blameless for the chaos that ensues. But anyone with simple math skills knows better.. and knows that it has to stop now. We need a budget with AT LEAST $400 billion in cuts and we need it last year. The Democrats still refuse to admit that there is any problem at all. And the American public can see who is trying to fix the escalating budget, and who is playing politics. Democrats WILL suffer the fallout of a failure to reach a compromise. The Democrats WILL suffer the blame for sitting on the sidelines when they had control of both the Senate and the White House.
Adam
June 30th, 2011
3:31 pm
Dave R: Everything I have looked at has shown me that from 1980-2008 the trends of spending vs revenue follow the president’s party, not the party in control of congress. If you are really going to sit there and tell me two years of 2008-2010 invalidate that and “prove” that if Democrats control everything they will increase spending every time, well, you’re going to have to provide some evidence.
I have looked into this extensively already, and shown my data on a few occasions to back this up. You have not done the same. So don’t pretend it’s me not doing homework, and you having to take some extra time out of your life for this. You should be able to just pull it from your browser history if you’ve been busy finding facts like you claim to.
Peter
June 30th, 2011
3:32 pm
Scott…..I think Bush’s problem was that he spent too much. He spent like a Democrat. He abandoned Rep principles and spent like a Dem.
No he didn’t……. he started WARS like a Republican…… that is our biggest issue.
Logical Dude
June 30th, 2011
3:33 pm
Scott: I think Bush’s problem was that he spent too much. He spent like a Democrat. …. Obama took it many steps further, dug deeper, jumped in
So, again, EVERYBODY is to blame. We got it.
We need to move past the blame portion of the discussion, and move to the “get this resolved” portion of the discussion.
Dusty
June 30th, 2011
3:33 pm
Oh dear, the sky is falling. The usual cadre of liberal lackies have told us so over and over. Henny Penny said it too. THE SKY IS FALLING! Bookman paces the floor nervously as he keeps a watch on the ceiling. Yes sir and mam, this place is going to be smushed!!
Aint it awful! I mean poor Michelle has hardly had time to wash her clothes after her long hot visit to South Africa with her entire family. Now it is time for Martha’s Vineyard and people keep talking about the “ceiling”. The mean old GOP tries to interfere with vacations all the time. Trying to talk with the president. What do they think they are? Vacations are serious business and who cares about the old ceiling?
Yep, vacation time. I think I will go to Greece where they understand finances. I may spend a dollar or two if they’ll take it. I think I’d better get a passport for Henny Penny. Liberals are going to be real mad when they find out she’s a total fraud and they believed her. In the meantime, carry on. THE SKY IS FALLING!!!
Adam
June 30th, 2011
3:34 pm
Peter: No he didn’t……. he started WARS like a Republican…… that is our biggest issue.
And ALSO spent like a… well let’s just say he spent. Medicare Part D and tax cuts are expenses.
AmVet
June 30th, 2011
3:34 pm
“He abandoned Rep principles…”
Can someone tell me the last time we had a fiscally responsible Republican in the White House?
(Hint: I like Ike.)
Peter
June 30th, 2011
3:34 pm
Hey too little time……..you mean with out tax increases don’t you ? No president in the history of the US cut taxes during a WAR…….except BUSH.
WOODSTOCK MIKE
June 30th, 2011
3:34 pm
@AmVet
CEO’s are responsible for their employees compensation. So I assume that this isn’t a political conversation because CEO’s are both Democrat and Republican?
Dave R.
June 30th, 2011
3:35 pm
“Everything I have looked at has shown me that from 1980-2008 the trends of spending vs revenue follow the president’s party, not the party in control of congress.”
Then you are blind as well as misinformed.
Joe Mama
June 30th, 2011
3:38 pm
Doom — “I would disagree with you on that Joe. I think most fair minded people, Republicans and cons like myself, were very disappointed to see the deficits and debt balloon under Bush.”
I wish some of y’all had had the intestinal fortitude to come out and SAY something about it while he was still in office. The fact that y’all were largely silent on it feeds the impression on the left that you’re only bothered by deficit spending when Democrats do it.
WOODSTOCK MIKE
June 30th, 2011
3:39 pm
@Peter
You forgot to add that Obama extended those tax cuts during a time of war… Had the choice to increase but chose not to…
Keep Up the Good Fight!
June 30th, 2011
3:40 pm
I see Dave’s got a new card in the deck….”I claim that I proved it before so now I can just say it and you have to accept it as fact or look it up yourself if you can guess where I got it and how I spun the interpretation.” He played that card yesterday on me… Its weak. Might as well call it the “we all know that X” card….which usually is a false play and wrong.
Scott
June 30th, 2011
3:40 pm
Peter, I guess it is all relative isn’t it. I had not idea that in the exact same identical situations, the person responsible for shutting down the government can be changed. Under Clinton, it was just slick Willy taking charge and leading from the front and telling the Reps to conform to his beliefs even though his political strategy of triangulation speaks otherwise. Meanwhile in Obama’s situation, it is the Rep controlled House being mean and holding the country hostage. How naive and how sad to think that somebody so clueless can actually help choose a President.
Logical Dude
June 30th, 2011
3:41 pm
Woodstock Mike: You forgot to add that Obama extended those tax cuts during a time of war… Had the choice to increase but chose not to…
No, he made a deal to continue unemployment benefits for the GOOD OF THE COUNTRY.
Now that we’re past the blame game, how should we get the country to pay off the debt?
godless heathen
June 30th, 2011
3:42 pm
AmVet: “More horible news vis a vis Mission Accomplished…”
So you are noting the number of service persons killed in Iraq? Just the other day you called me sicko for the same thing. Hypocrite.
Adam
June 30th, 2011
3:43 pm
Logical Dude: Now that we’re past the blame game…
Ha! That’s funny…
Mighty Righty
June 30th, 2011
3:43 pm
Peter
June 30th, 2011
3:19 pm
Hey WOODSTOCK MIKE, Please read…. How 11 Corporate Titans Profited After Failure
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/How-11-Corporate-Titans-usnews-474283494.html?x=0
Seems these CEOs did great after screwing up royally……. this is the Corporate America I am talking about.
There are exceptions to every rule. I’ve had employees steal from me. Does that mean all employees are dishonest? I have owned two corporations, three if you count converting a C corp to an S corp. Both were profitable. Hired people. Treated them well. Took care of my customers. Provided good products at fair prices. Most of my cusomers felt bad when I sold out. Sold both at a profit. Paid my taxes didn’t violate any laws. I don’t think there was anything I did that most business owners do not do every day they open their business. Also spent many years as an executive of a large multi state corporation. We never took advantage of any of our 4000 plus employees. Never cheated them or our customers. Protected our share holders, met our community obligations and protected our environment. I could go on and on. So I don’t understand the whining, and complaining about evil corporations unless you are just stupid and blind. Durng my life, I have worked for five different cororations, none of which fit anything I hear about on here. All of which leads me to believe that the problem must be with you.
Real Scooter
June 30th, 2011
3:43 pm
We need to move past the blame portion of the discussion, and move to the “get this resolved” portion of the discussion.
Nice try AGAIN Dude .lol
AmVet
June 30th, 2011
3:43 pm
Of course, mike!
I’m not into either the Tweedledee or Tweedledum Party.
I am into working class American families.
And watching fat cats sell them down the river, by the millions, while they make ungodly money – even for horrifically mismanaging companies, like what happened on Wall Street – is a crime I will never overlook.
Once again let me state the patently obvious – most American men and women and the companies they run, are completely ethical and operate legally.
Even so, a whole sh*tload of them do not. In fact, we could have a fun little game here. Tell me your favorite Fortune 1000 company and I’ll try to find if they have ever been indicted and/or convicted of any crimes.
You’d be shocked.
And I am adamant that they should face justice, rather than just pay off some slap on the wrist and consider it a cost of doing business.
Scott
June 30th, 2011
3:43 pm
Amvet, can you tell me that last time we had ANYBODY fiscally conservative in the White House? I am thinking you might end up with the same answer.
Left wing management
June 30th, 2011
3:44 pm
Dave R.: “I have no problem raising the debt limit, as long as there are deep, guaranteed spending cuts and tax reform in the way of closing loopholes and subsidies, but NO tax rate increases”
Well, if your view is represented by the GOP leadership — and it appears to be — then if I’m Barack Obama I say go ahead, let’s see what happens. As we start going off the cliff, we’ll see who cracks first. The people of the United States elected this House last November and if that means ushering in financial calamity and accelerating our decline as a nation, then so be it. The people of a democracy can only be shielded from the consequences of their electoral choices so much. Not to be vindictive, but perhaps another serious financial calamity will help them to clarify their vision of their choices among the ideologies that are on offer.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
June 30th, 2011
3:45 pm
AmVet…why that guy Ike infringed on states rights to build and construct their own roads….
Real Scooter
June 30th, 2011
3:45 pm
Dusty
June 30th, 2011
3:33 pm
LMAO!!!!!
Dave R.
June 30th, 2011
3:45 pm
“Its weak.”
No, Keep, it’s just simply being tired of you and your cronies ADD-like behavior when having to show you the same things I had to show you earlier, because you’re just too damned dense to remember what I posted before.
And I’m not going to do that over and over and over again because of your YOUR deficiencies.
AmVet
June 30th, 2011
3:45 pm
Heathen, read the bottom three links. That was my overarching point.
The place is still a complete clusterf&ck…
Adam
June 30th, 2011
3:46 pm
Scott: Well, there was Clinton….
Logical Dude
June 30th, 2011
3:46 pm
Real Scooter: We need to move past the blame portion of the discussion, and move to the “get this resolved” portion of the discussion.
“Nice try AGAIN Dude .lol”
Hey, I do what I can!
Adam
June 30th, 2011
3:47 pm
Dave R: because you’re just too damned dense to remember what I posted before.
Or maybe I didn’t see it and have no way of finding it.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
June 30th, 2011
3:47 pm
LWM…I have every fear you may be right. Not all of the people were misled. Unfortunately we only have one vote and limited representation.
AmVet
June 30th, 2011
3:47 pm
Scott, no question.
And the War on the American Middle Class has been raging pretty much unabated for at least 30 years…
Dusty
June 30th, 2011
3:48 pm
Well, the problem is solved. The FAT CATS did it. Call in the big dawgs. The FAT CATS dun did it!!!! Now why didn’t we think of that???
Conservative Geezer
June 30th, 2011
3:49 pm
CUT OUT ALL ENTITLEMENTS, STOP TAXING ME, AND GET OFF MY LAWN!
Independent
June 30th, 2011
3:49 pm
By Standard and Poors ratings process given just before the collapse of AIG and Lehman’s the US govenment will continue to have a AAA rating up until it files bankruptcy. After all, their ratings are “only their opinions”.
Mighty Righty
June 30th, 2011
3:50 pm
Granny Godzilla
June 30th, 2011
3:29 pm
Mighty Righty
Considering you think SEIU and NEA members are Obama organized thugs – nope.
I will take that as an admission that Unions are Obama’s thugs.
Joe Mama
June 30th, 2011
3:50 pm
I made a large reply to Scott at 3:35 that’s stuck in moderation. Here’s the short version:
Presidents before and after Clinton have done *the exact same thing* you’re complaining about, yet none of them have ever shown an annual surplus — except for the first couple of years of the younger Bush’s Administration — when he was still coasting on the Clinton surpluses. You can complain all you want about some sort of revenue shell game being run by Clinton, but the fact of the matter is that every recent President has done the exact same thing as Clinton, but none of them showed a surplus. So what’s more credible? That Clinton somehow was *better* at balance-sheet sleight-of-hand or that Clinton *actually* ran a surplus?
If you’re going to get me to buy into the notion that Clinton somehow shuffled assets around in order to make it *look* like he was running a surplus, then you’re going to have to explain to me how come no *other* recent President was able to do that and you’re going to have to show me that he was doing something that they *weren’t.*
I’m not impressed by your citation of Treasury numbers; anyone who’s dealt with government agencies knows that the CBO is *much* more authoritative when it comes to the actual daily nuts and bolts of where money comes from and where it goes. Treasury performs very high-level analysis, and citing their numbers is a good way to gloss over things you don’t want other people to notice. The CBO looks at where money *actually* comes from and where it’s *actually* spent. And here are *their* numbers. Have a look at it all, but I suggest you look at page 1 in close detail.
http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/120xx/doc12039/HistoricalTables1.pdf
You will notice that the decrease in outstanding debt in the later years of the Clinton Administration is significantly *larger* than the corresponding increase in the SS surplus, which is conveniently broken out for you. Therefore, your ’shell game’ argument is invalid.
If you want to play nice with me, I’m game, but I don’t run and you need to try decaf. Otherwise, I can dish it out as well as you can.
Logical Dude
June 30th, 2011
3:51 pm
Dusty: The FAT CATS did it. Call in the big dawgs. The FAT CATS dun did it!!!! Now why didn’t we think of that???
No dont’ go all WILD on us. It’ll turn into an ANIMAL HOUSE if this keeps up! No more MONKEY business!
Dave R.
June 30th, 2011
3:51 pm
“Well, if your view is represented by the GOP leadership — and it appears to be — then if I’m Barack Obama I say go ahead, let’s see what happens.”
LWM, as I explained earlier to getaclue, Hope & Putt ™ can’t do that any longer (politically).
He’s already publicly articulated the need for cuts and for increasing the debt ceiling.
The House will pass a bill that has all that I suggested earlier.
The Senate will balk initially, but we’ll be too close to the deadline to make any substantive changes and they will pass it as well.
Hope & Putt ™ MUST sign it, or he gets blamed for defaulting on the debt.
The blame game only works when you’re NOT in power. He is.
This is a political battle he can never win.
josef
June 30th, 2011
3:52 pm
ZamVet
“And watching fat cats sell them down the river, by the millions, while they make ungodly money – even for horrifically mismanaging companies, like what happened on Wall Street – is a crime I will never overlook.”
Except, of course, if we’re talking about their lineal ancestors of the Glorious Occupation…they were the good guys…
Sorry, ZamVet, just trying to get a new thread…
Adam
June 30th, 2011
3:53 pm
Joe Mama: Your link is a 404.
Scott
June 30th, 2011
3:53 pm
Amvet….game number two. Give me a poltician’s name and let’s see if anybody in their campaign or administration has ever been convicted of similar crimes. Yet, based off of what I see you write on here, you would like to see everybody give them more control of our money. yeah…because they are ethical and trustworthy. They would never use taxpayer money to “buy” votes. Nope…not ever. They would never devise a giant ponzi scheme out social security. Nope. Note ever. They would never create these little things call earmarks and pet projects and attach them to bills that they have nothing to do with.
Tell me AmVet. You say you are for the working class families. What will have a greater effect on them? Not having those funds available in that “little black box” called social security and having the elected politicians divy up taxpayer money for political power or having corporations commit the crimes you listed? I know that you, like many, will say that the corporate crimes is worse, but that is only because nobody will see that the effects of the illegal dealings of our politicians for 20-30 years when they see a much smaller than expected social security check in the mail.
luckjoe
June 30th, 2011
3:54 pm
The Democratic led congress has not balanced the budget in 2 an a half years. Now, Community President Organizer wants to rant that the sky is falling, and this if after shoving Obamacare down our throats. He is an arrogant socialist and the sooner he is out of office the better.
Mighty Righty
June 30th, 2011
3:56 pm
By Standard and Poors ratings process given just before the collapse of AIG and Lehman’s the US govenment will continue to have a AAA rating up until it files bankruptcy. After all, their ratings are “only their opinions”.
All ratings are opinions, but these opinions have consequences in as much as they impact interest rates.
Granny Godzilla
June 30th, 2011
3:56 pm
Mighty
You CAN take it that way if you wish to deceive yourself….no skin off my nose.
But I’ll double dog take your response as you are afraid to bet based on the your posted description of OBAMAS SECRET ARMY.
I have one last word for you…..wimpy.
Adam
June 30th, 2011
3:56 pm
luckjoe:
1) Tell me when the last time congress had a balanced budget was
2) Tell me what “Obamacare” has to do with not having a balanced budget
3) Define socialist
4) Address ALL 3 points, not just the one(s) you think is/are easy.
Joe Mama
June 30th, 2011
3:58 pm
Adam — thanks for the heads up. Here’s an alternate method. Go here:
http://www.cbo.gov/budget/budget.cfm
And find this text along the right side of the page:
Historical Budget Data
A compilation of data on the government’s revenues, outlays and deficits or surpluses for the past 40 years. Figures are reported in nominal dollars and as a percentage of gross domestic product.
pdf excel
You can then choose a pdf or Excel file, as you prefer.
Uncle Billy
June 30th, 2011
3:58 pm
kimmer et. al. The debt ceiling was enacted in 1917 during WWI. Until then Congress had to approve each and every borrowing by the Treasury. That was the reason it was enacted. To get around every issue of debt instruments having to be approved by Congress.
One and all, instead of using the word “politicians” use the phrase “the peoples’ elected representatives.” No one sneaked in and took a seat. Each and every one got there through an election.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
June 30th, 2011
3:59 pm
because you’re just too damned dense to remember what I posted before.
DaveR, you are not authorized to speak about what I should remember about your purported posts. You don’t speak for me nor make conclusions on my behalf about what should be read or ignored on this blog. Get it Davey?
Now that we have the silliness out of the way, I hope you are not so dense (your words) to suggest that you are particularly important to remember or that you have provided conclusive evidence of your posts. You can either back up your claims or not…your choice. Its also my constitutional right to have an opinion of what your words mean or don’t mean and to determine that you may not be factual. The American way, Dave…. I know its hard to remember because your used to ranting at RINOs and claiming some Republicans will vote certain ways because of some magical info. If you want to discuss your posts and NOT you, then provide some support for your claims.
AmVet
June 30th, 2011
3:59 pm
Yet, based off of what I see you write on here, you would like to see everybody give them more control of our money.
Please explain and expound with specific quotes from me. Making claims is easy. Time to pony up.
Or don’t.
BTW, you sure are asking me a lot of questions. Which is ironic considering that your very first post to me today was, “…you bring nothing to the table.”
josef
June 30th, 2011
4:00 pm
good fight
@ 3:45
“AmVet…why that guy Ike infringed on states rights to build and construct their own roads”
Ssshhh…don’t bring up state’s rights like that…it’s “evolving” as we speak…
DAVE
I’m trying, Son, but I can’t do it alone!
Enough Already
June 30th, 2011
4:01 pm
Jay is right. I don’t say that very often. The problem is how does each side get enough maneuvering room to get done what we need done?
The Repubs are beholden to their corporate masters so they cannot allow closing corporate tax loopholes and tax dodges for wall street traders. A good solution for additional revenue would be a large pot solution like Reagan did (taxes don’t go up they just get broader with less deductions for everyone).
The Dems “earn” their votes by bringing home benefits for their peeps. How are they going to agree to take some slop out of the trough? The system of having states draw up the election boundaries ensures that the feds give their favorite states some cash to buy votes also. This needs to stop. If Minnesota needs a new bridge, they can buy it. Why should Oregonians pay for a light rail system (or port) in Georgia?
We REALLY REALLY REALLY need a viable third party or an alternative electoral system. We have reached electoral gridlock.
Scott
June 30th, 2011
4:01 pm
Joe Mama….fine you got me. We will accept that a surplus was run during the Clinton years. Thank you Rep-led Congress. If it wasn’t for you, we would never have had a surplus. Happy now?
buck@gon
June 30th, 2011
4:03 pm
Jay,
I’m resigned to rename your blog CONFLATION STATION. You just can’t help this immature effort to be right about the entirely wrong things. First below, in your two previous articles: you rehash the class-envy schtick: “How can we go on and NOT tax the rich.” Note the problem the 2010 election addressed was SPENDING, not taxes, which even Democrats, when they had absolute Washington power, refused themselves to raise. So, here we are, the Adolesident Obama chastizing Republicans for not legislating tax increases that even Democrats were reluctant to do. Let’s tax the rich, Obama says, but you’ll have to trust him to realize any spending cuts at all–not a wise move there for the country.
Then we have the utter nonsense below: “In other words, we could continue to pay off bondholders such as China for a few weeks. They could, theoretically, still get paid. But we couldn’t pay our own soldiers. No government salaries would be paid at all, including for those employees who would supposedly be sending out the checks to China and elsewhere.”
This is pure imagination! Whatever the government decides to pay is up to the exchequer and congress.
Where’s all the leadership on this we expected? Where’s the Adolesident during budget negotiations he commanded Biden to attend? Playing golf yet again, one is willing to imagine.
But in the world of conflation station here at the ajc, it is all disaster all the time. In Tucker’s worldview disaster is caused by white people and their racism. In Jay Bookman’s little Weltanschauung, it is simply republicans. I don’t want the nation to default either, but if that happens, then it will be advancing the inevitable anyway, should Adolesident Obama win another four years in the White House. Oh yeah, and we can look for plenty more non-leadership from him too.
Real Scooter
June 30th, 2011
4:03 pm
Adam
June 30th, 2011
3:56 pm
Dang Adam,thats a hard test.Glad you were not one of my teachers. lol
Scott
June 30th, 2011
4:03 pm
Amvt, You like Obamacare and Stimulus. That was more taxpayer money going into government hands wasn’t it or do believe that this money just appeared out of nowhere?
Doggone/GA
June 30th, 2011
4:03 pm
“Thank you Rep-led Congress. If it wasn’t for you, we would never have had a surplus”
/snort Yep, they deserve our thanks all right. Heck, all they did was force a government shutdown – until Clinton got what he wanted.
Dusty
June 30th, 2011
4:05 pm
Hi REAL SCOOTER
How ya doing? Just sitting around waiting for the adults to show up?
I surely do hope Bookman did his laundry today. We need a new sheet here worse than the KKK welcoming committee. (Note: I know nothing about the KKK except they wear sheets, unless they are like Weiner and wear only underwear. But who knows? I certainly don’t.)
WOODSTOCK MIKE
June 30th, 2011
4:05 pm
Ok now I know how this works, when Bush runs up a deficit it’s horrible for the country, when Obama runs up a deficit it’s FOR THE GOOD OF THE PEOPLE.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
June 30th, 2011
4:06 pm
Doggone…and the Republicans are so proud of that moment that Newt is the #1 contender for President
AmVet
June 30th, 2011
4:07 pm
You like Obamacare…
Another fallacious statement based on nothing but your fantasies.
I railed against it. Repeatedly.
Keep digging though, you’ll get yourself out of that hole…
Adam
June 30th, 2011
4:07 pm
Joe Mama: OOOO Excel sheet! That means I can make my own charts!
Peter
June 30th, 2011
4:07 pm
Mighty Righty…You did the right thing..Great…..the CEOs pay as compared to the employees are way out of line…that is my point.
And many corporations don’t do the right thing, so I am happy you were one of them.
Adam
June 30th, 2011
4:08 pm
AmVet: I’m curious, what was your objection to ACA
Logical Dude
June 30th, 2011
4:08 pm
Since I don’t see many people posting solutions, here is a suggestion:
It took us 40 years to get into this much debt, so we’re not going to get out of it soon. By Jay’s chart, JUST THE INTEREST ON THE DEBT is about 30 BILLION PER MONTH. So, I estimate that at 360 BILLION PER YEAR. and that’s just the interest.
SO, what do we do?
We have to keep paying the bill that we have obligated ourselves to pay. That means RAISING THE DEBT LIMIT. But if we keep doing that, that Interest on the debt will keep going up as well. That is money that cannot be used for anything else, and is increasingly crimping our ability to run the country. There is NO DOUBT that we need to not only balance the budget, but run a significant surplus: JUST TO BREAK EVEN.
Now we can cut spending significantly (DUH)., which will get us partly there.
But we also must INCREASE REVENUE. (another DUH). Because as we cut spending, that’ll reduce much of the money flowing through the country. (for example, Reducing the military causes less people in the military, who now won’t earn government money to pay taxes on).
Another thing that will help is when more people get hired. This will increase the revenue base and allow for great revenue overall. The danger is then cutting taxes at that time. We shouldn’t do that until the debt is paid down significantly (as long as it doesn’t affect the rest of the economy)
This isn’t going to be completed in Obama’s administration, even if he serves 2 terms! and other circumstance may make the deficit increase again. (war, famine, pestilence, natural disaster)
This is going to take a dozen years at least, and likely more because it’ll be hard to break even in a recession or with high unemployment. Incremental changes are needed in some areas and significant changes are needed in other areas.
Government Study after Government Studay say similar things, but politicians are becoming too political to actually do what is needed to save the country. they all seem to only care how they can benefit themselves or their party.
Thomas
June 30th, 2011
4:08 pm
The bill, AB 28X, takes effect immediately. The state Board of Equalization says the tax will raise $200 million a year, but critics claim it will raise nothing because online retailers will end their affiliate programs rather than collect the tax.
There is the problem with myopic thinking. Would it be that difficult to have leadership that says 1) folks are living older so SS and medicare do need to be adjusted accordingly 2) tax rates are going up on certain folks and institutions but the tax code is going to be radically simplified. (for my lefties screw the credits for never going to the marketplace green sh*t- you guys are just as bad) 3) the non paying base is going to be set at 10-15%, not 30-40%.
Anyway- back to my golf game and world travel
Peter
June 30th, 2011
4:08 pm
Please……..Ok now I know how this works, when Bush runs up a deficit it’s horrible for the country, when Obama runs up a deficit it’s FOR THE GOOD OF THE PEOPLE.
It is never good for the people to run our country into the ground !
Doggone/GA
June 30th, 2011
4:09 pm
“We REALLY REALLY REALLY need a viable third party or an alternative electoral system”
In a two-party dominant system a third party is counterproductive, because it will “steal” votes from whichever of the two main parties it is closest to…thus virtually ensuring the election of the OTHER party.
As for a different system, keep this in mind (I don’t know who said it): In a multi-party system, compromises are made after the election. In a two-party system compromises are made before the election.
Now, I’ve mentioned this here before – but it’s been a while. Quite a few years ago now, I saw a report on some research that was done on elections. They were studying what would be the fairest election system. Their conclustion was that instead of voting FOR one candidate, the voters should have to rank every candidate in the order they prefer them. From 1 to whatever, and the candidate with the lowest cumulative ranking wins.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
June 30th, 2011
4:10 pm
josef….why just earlier today I thought of you when I reminded a new tenant from the North that the Late Misunderstanding was just on pause.
Adam
June 30th, 2011
4:12 pm
Doggone: In a two-party dominant system a third party is counterproductive, because it will “steal” votes from whichever of the two main parties it is closest to…thus virtually ensuring the election of the OTHER party.
That’s why, even though I think the extremist wing of it is wrong, I support libertarianism rising up to become that third party.
Left wing management
June 30th, 2011
4:13 pm
I’m of the opinion that any blogger who utters inanities along the lines of “we should ignore the opinions of the ratings agencies” because they are “only their opinions” ought to be slapped with a one day suspension from posting to the blog.
Contemporary capitalism operates based on the principle of credit, insofar as the credit markets supply the blood that makes the system run. For someone who otherwise claims to support and defend free market capitalism to come on here and utter something that stupid ought to have real consequences if you ask me.
DBCOOPER
June 30th, 2011
4:13 pm
The fact that we are here today to debate raising America’s debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the U.S. Government can’t pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government’s reckless fiscal policies. … Increasing America’s debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that ‘the buck stops here. Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better.
Senator BH Obama
Joe Mama
June 30th, 2011
4:14 pm
Scott — “Joe Mama….fine you got me. We will accept that a surplus was run during the Clinton years. Thank you Rep-led Congress. If it wasn’t for you, we would never have had a surplus. Happy now?”
Yeah, um, you and your ‘whooped dog’ comment can kiss my butt now.
I voted Republican and Libertarian for 20+ years of my life. I enlisted in the Army during the Reagan Administration. I’m a disabled veteran. I am *not* some sort of True Believer non-thinking nitwit who always toes the party line. I never voted for a Democrat in my LIFE before 2004. And for some jackass like you to come off the hip with a bunch of crap like you did a little while ago really chaps my behind.
If you want to discuss things politely and like a couple of adults, and you can set your partisanship aside, then I would be more than willing to have a conversation with you. But if you’re going to post that kind of ‘you’re dismissed’ bulldada you posted earlier, then I don’t really think we need to have any further conversations.
Where we go from here is your choice. If you want to play nice, I’m game. If you’re going to be a jackass again, then you’ll be jackin’ it by yourself.
Adam
June 30th, 2011
4:14 pm
Doggone: Quite a few years ago now, I saw a report on some research that was done on elections. They were studying what would be the fairest election system. Their conclustion was that instead of voting FOR one candidate, the voters should have to rank every candidate in the order they prefer them. From 1 to whatever, and the candidate with the lowest cumulative ranking wins.
That sounds quite interesting! Is there a name for the study or the people who did it so I can look it up?
WOODSTOCK MIKE
June 30th, 2011
4:14 pm
@Peter
The point is that if you eliminated the CEO’s pay completely and divided it out amongst the employees it makes almost no difference to anything. Take a look at this clip…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mw8y__JgdjY
MiltonMan
June 30th, 2011
4:14 pm
…and yet no mention from bookman on Obozo’s vote not to raise the debt limit in 2006????
AJC – Sensationalism reporting at best.
Fred
June 30th, 2011
4:14 pm
This whole mess reminds me how them carpetbaggers were trying to ruin our good Southern Army right before the War of Northern Aggression………………. WHy them damn yankees needed our cotton and were trying to muscle into the production end so they up and………..
(does that help Josef?)
Real Scooter
June 30th, 2011
4:15 pm
Dusty
June 30th, 2011
4:05 pm
I’m doing good Dusty,thank you. Oh,and we wear camo underwear under our sheets!
Adam
June 30th, 2011
4:15 pm
DBCOOPER: It is a sign that the U.S. Government can’t pay its own bills
More of a sign that we don’t really WANT to pay our bills, not that we CAN’T. I suppose that’s just as bad, or worse…
buck@gon
June 30th, 2011
4:17 pm
Regarding THE ADOLESIDENT (from National Review):
“And while the president insists that failing to meet the August 2 debt-limit deadline would unleash a train of calamities not seen since the Book of Job, he seems to be willing to risk them all in order to enact a set of tax increases that would yield largely trivial sums of revenue and whose only plausible justification could be the political appeal of envy.
There were other characteristically disconcerting moments too. There was the familiar insistence that everything about his administration is unprecedented. The president said, for instance:
What I have done — and this is unprecedented, by the way; no administration has done this before — is I’ve said to each agency, “Don’t just look at current regulations or don’t just look at future regulations, regulations that we’re proposing. Let’s go backwards and look at regulations that are already on the books and if they don’t make sense, let’s get rid of them.”
But of course, lots of presidents have thought of this particularly easy way to appear to be fighting bureaucracy. As the GAO has noted, “Every president since President Carter has directed agencies to evaluate or reconsider existing regulations.”
There was the unwillingness to speak of victory in an ongoing war. There was the shamelessly cynical treatment of the gay-marriage question (“I’ll keep on giving you the same answer until I give you a different one, all right? And that won’t be today,” the president said.) ”
It’s obvious, isn’t it, that our adolescent-in-charge will not be running on his own record next year. Given this perspective, one wonders if he won’t pull an LBJ and bow out gracefully–as I would, if the results of my job were so utterly abyssmal.
I don’t think he will because he is just too out of touch with reality, too infatuated with his own past press–’YES WE CAN! YES WE CAN!. Too bad for him, governing requires more than senseless slogans and demagoguery.
Real Scooter
June 30th, 2011
4:17 pm
Ok now I know how this works, when Bush runs up a deficit it’s horrible for the country, when Obama runs up a deficit it’s FOR THE GOOD OF THE PEOPLE.
Dang Mike,sure took you long enough! LMAO
Left wing management
June 30th, 2011
4:18 pm
What does 30 years of Reaganomics give you?
Here’s what it gives you:
“Right now, this afternoon, just 400 Americans — 400 — have more wealth than half of all Americans combined.” – Michael Moore
Reagan = rigor mortis of an empire that’s running out of ideas
Dave R.
June 30th, 2011
4:18 pm
“You can either back up your claims or not…your choice.”
I do back up my claims, Keep, but I’m tired of doing so because you’re too damned dense to remember them. So when I make a NEW point, I’ll continue to back it up.
When I reiterate an old point, I shall no longer repeat what has already been posted for links. That is YOUR problem, not mine, Keep.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
June 30th, 2011
4:18 pm
Doggone…the ranking system is intriguing but I suspect would only continue to drive the single issue orientated candidate.
Joe Mama
June 30th, 2011
4:18 pm
Adam — “Joe Mama: OOOO Excel sheet! That means I can make my own charts!”
If you like that, then bookmark the page, because just below what I pointed you at is this:
Spreadsheets for Selected Estimates and Projections
A collection of historical CBO data, arranged by category. These spreadsheets are not continuously updated, but rather are a reflection of CBO’s estimates, assumptions, and projections at the time the associated publication was released.
If my first link got you excited, then I suspect you will make a squealing, gurgling noise when you go to that other page.
Dave R.
June 30th, 2011
4:19 pm
LWM, the only time Michael Moore can count to 400 is when he’s on his bathroom scale.
AmVet
June 30th, 2011
4:20 pm
Adam, it is little more than a giveaway to the Insurance industry and big pharma.
Who not only endorsed this legislation, who helped write it? The giant drug and health insurance industries.The very same organizations that are now in control of healthcare.
In addition there are still loopholes for insurance companies that would allow them not to pay on some pre-existing conditions.
Obama even promised to continue the prohibition on Uncle Sam from bargaining for volume discounts on drugs that you the taxpayer have been paying for in the drug benefit program enacted in 2003.
But the Washington weasels really aren’t concerned very much – if this goofball legislation messes up rather than improves our debacle of a healthcare system, they’ll still be all set with their gold plated plan.
Scott
June 30th, 2011
4:21 pm
doggone…i like that solution. I think that would make elections a lot fairer and would actually allow a 3rd party candidate to content to an extent. I thhink that report would be very interesting to read.
buck@gon
June 30th, 2011
4:21 pm
Logical Dude:
“Since I don’t see many people posting solutions, here is a suggestion”
Nice suggestion, but the Republicans ARE offering solutions. Jay’s not, Obama’s not, and even the President’s budget INCREASED the deficit–and got not one vote in Congress.
I salute your suggestion, but the real long-term solution must first contemplate ridding ourselves of the adolescent in chief, who seems to care nothing for acknowledging realities, who in fact, seems to have not the slightest sign of recognizing the danger of debt and default himself, who can only destroy conservatives but is inadequate to help the nation.
josef
June 30th, 2011
4:21 pm
Left wing…
Forewarned is forearmed as they say!
Peter
June 30th, 2011
4:21 pm
WOODSTOCK MIKE …. yup the Wall Mart example was what you wanted me to see.
The CEOs are still making too much, so tax them.
Adam
June 30th, 2011
4:22 pm
demagoguery
Show of hands: how many conservatives, before Ryan started using the term, knew what this term meant?
John Galt
June 30th, 2011
4:22 pm
Off topic but….
From Audacity of Hope:
“I will stand with the Muslims should the political winds shift in an ugly direction.”
Dave R.
June 30th, 2011
4:23 pm
“DAVE
I’m trying, Son, but I can’t do it alone!”
josef, I think Jay knows we want one, but he’s merely being contrary. Doesn’t want to be so predictable, you know . . .
Keep Up the Good Fight!
June 30th, 2011
4:23 pm
why Dave, you presume I am here and reading your every post every day. Do you have a tracking system to know who has read your post or who was actually here at the time. I dont speak for all but I know that there are times that I am on conference calls, out of office, or only loosely monitoring here so rather presumptive assumption on your part.
Your presumption of your importance greatly exceeds reality but I bet it works well during your leadership classes at Yerkes
Logical Dude
June 30th, 2011
4:23 pm
Woodstock Mike: The point is that if you eliminated the CEO’s pay completely and divided it out amongst the employees it makes almost no difference to anything.
I think the issue is that you can hire 20 EXTRA PEOPLE for the price of the CEO – and still keep the CEO if the CEO got a reasonable paycheck. Yes, when you dilute the pay over the hundreds or thousands in the company, then it comes up small, but if the same funds can be used to strengthen what the business does, then putting all the funds on the top does a disservice to the company.
WOODSTOCK MIKE
June 30th, 2011
4:24 pm
Looks like Michael Moore left something out… This is a global issue, not a United States problem..
“World’s richest 1% own 40% of all wealth, UN report discovers”
Peter
June 30th, 2011
4:25 pm
Why don’t we go to a consuming flat rate tax ? The CEO’s would hate that.or maybe not ?
Would all their toys still be paid for, and taxed in the same way ?
Joe Mama
June 30th, 2011
4:25 pm
Adam — “That sounds quite interesting! Is there a name for the study or the people who did it so I can look it up?”
This is not the voting method Doggone spoke of, but it is one of several interesting alternatives I have read about in recent years. I think you will probably be able to Wikisurf around to other, related alternative voting methodologies.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_past_the_post
Dusty
June 30th, 2011
4:25 pm
Well, logical dude said NO MO MONKEY business. You better tell Yerkes. They dun lost one and I think she is here. There are several suspects. No names mentioned of course. But U NO WHO THEY ARE!!
——————–
Hush yo mouth, Real Scooter. I bet you were not supposed to TELL.
josef
June 30th, 2011
4:25 pm
FRED
We’re getting there!
Adam
June 30th, 2011
4:25 pm
AmVet: Agreed on all points. I think though that if the discussion would move to fixing those aspects of it, things would get better.
Which reminds me, whatever happened to Repeal and Replace? They passed a repeal bill in the House, it outright failed in the Senate, and then NOTHING. I thought they were going to tear it apart piece by piece next, and then replace it with something? What happened?
AmVet
June 30th, 2011
4:26 pm
Moore is one of those guys whose instincts were (are?) good and who has done much good, but in reality his own stardom sank him.
And he became nothing more than Court Jester and Head Sycophant for the Democratic Party…
buck@gon
June 30th, 2011
4:26 pm
AmVet @ 4:20,
“They” will be set with their gold-plated plan?
I’m both saddened and amused by your non-logic here, AmVet.
Our fiscal house is burning down essentially, and you’re worried that you’re not getting your fair share, or that someone else is getting too much.
That’s just not the way mature adults behave. Reality is reality. Comparing yourself to others obsessively can only lead to heartache. Besides, Obama has already proven beyond doubt that he can make the rich richer as the poor get poorer–or worse: STAY UNEMPLOYED. Even as Obama basks in the occasional glow of a rising stock market at times, he refuses to acknowledge that the use of food stamps and umemployment payments are at all time highs.
Go ahead, win your arguments concerning your own envy. I’m waiting for you to see that as you argue about someone else’s portion in the dining car that the train is going off the cliff. Greece anyone?
Logical Dude
June 30th, 2011
4:27 pm
Buck: the President’s budget INCREASED the deficit–and got not one vote in Congress.
So let me see Congress’ budget that doesn’t increase the deficit
Even Ryan’s budget increased the deficit. Unfortunately, this is the reality: We will go deeper in debt before we can turn this truck around. It’ll take huge steps and it’ll take long term incremental steps. Your dumping blame on just the president does a disservice to yourself.
What are your solutions?
Adam
June 30th, 2011
4:27 pm
Ok, since I am looking at all this at work, I now have to put a note for myself to load this page and go back over the posts involving the spreadsheets and voting systems. Lots of data to look at!
Dave R.
June 30th, 2011
4:27 pm
“why Dave, you presume I am here and reading your every post every day. ”
‘Cause you constantly try to drag me into your sorry arguments?
josef
June 30th, 2011
4:28 pm
DAVE
The Imam Torquemada predictable? Nyanh…never…bite your tongue!
buck@gon
June 30th, 2011
4:28 pm
Adam @ 4:22,
If we didn’t know the term prior to 2008, we sure learned it then–anyone remember “bitter clingers” and “gold-plated healthcare plans”?
Scott
June 30th, 2011
4:28 pm
Logical Dude. I agree with your thoughts on that. I am not against raising taxes as long as it will not result in an economic slowdown(which I think will occur right now if they were raised) and if it means that it will lead to this country staying great. I am just against raising taxes without making significant cuts to some excessive spending. We just let the government spend spend spend without ever truly questioning why they are spending like they are. I am also against raising taxes to help pay others that made terrible decision with their money or with their lives. I think it sucks that taxpayers money was made available to help people restructure their mortgage because they tried to get more than they could afford or because they were making a risky investment. I made risky investments during the dot com bust. Why didn’t I get a handout. Another example….The government spending something like 40 million dollars to get convicted felons back to work. I am sorry but how about we concentrate on the law-abiding citizens first and then help those people that made poor decisions in the past. It is just not fair and that money is not spent wisely.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
June 30th, 2011
4:29 pm
Repeal and replace? I think the Republicans found out that the American Public liked many provisions of ACA and actually wanted more (single payor for example) and that attacking provisions like preexisitng condition restraints would have about the same effect as the Ryan Plan to destroy Medicare as we know it.
Left wing management
June 30th, 2011
4:29 pm
“Looks like Michael Moore left something out… This is a global issue, not a United States problem..”
I certainly agree, Woody. And just what economic ideology has dominated the world economy for the last 30 – 40 years, starting with Pinochet in Chile, under the pseud-intellectual aegis of the “Chicago Boys”, and then continuing under Reagan and Thatcher, and even including the so-called “Third Way” solutions of the Bill Clintons and Tony Blairs?
John Galt
June 30th, 2011
4:30 pm
Someone explain to me how, when two parties are at loggerheads and neither will budge, one is holding the other hostage? This is true only if the “victims” are admittedly weaker and inferior.
If the dems think that not raising the debt ceiling is dangerous, offer some spending cuts.
Or shut up and stop demagoguing.
In all sincerity, I can’t tell whether Obama is unintelligent or simply in over his head. Either way, when you combine them with his arrogance it must be hard to watch, if you are a supporter, though I know they won’t admit it.
The only thing I can compare it to from my perspective was Reagan’s performance in the Iran-Contra hearings. I have since learned that the man, my hero, was in the early stages of Alzheimers. Has Obama had a thorough physical exam lately?
Logical Dude
June 30th, 2011
4:30 pm
Woodstock Mike: “World’s richest 1% own 40% of all wealth, UN report discovers”
So, since they got all da money, they should pay da taxes.
Dave R.
June 30th, 2011
4:30 pm
“And just what economic ideology has dominated the world economy for the last 30 – 40 years, starting with Pinochet in Chile, under the pseud-intellectual aegis of the “Chicago Boys”, and then continuing under Reagan and Thatcher, and even including the so-called “Third Way” solutions of the Bill Clintons and Tony Blairs?”
Tax and Spend?
josef
June 30th, 2011
4:31 pm
WHOOP! DERE IT IS!!!!
Going upstairs…
Dave R.
June 30th, 2011
4:31 pm
“In all sincerity, I can’t tell whether Obama is unintelligent or simply in over his head.”
He can be both, you know.
Real Scooter
June 30th, 2011
4:32 pm
I knew you were the only one that could hear me Dusty!
Joe Mama
June 30th, 2011
4:32 pm
Peter — “Why don’t we go to a consuming flat rate tax ? The CEO’s would hate that.or maybe not ?
Would all their toys still be paid for, and taxed in the same way ?”
The only way I could support a broad-based consumption tax of any sort is one that *completely exempted* necessities from taxation. That means food, clothing, utilities like power and water, medical expenses and the like. I also think that some sort of abatement or reduction should be applied to rent or mortgage (on a first home ONLY), on a single family vehicle or on mass transit expenses.
If you want a second car or a vacation home, then pony up.
buck@gon
June 30th, 2011
4:33 pm
Logical dude:
From FactCheck,
“Ryan says his plan would not increase the debt. In fact, under his plan the public debt would increase from $10 trillion in 2011 to $16 trillion in 2021, by his own figures. That’s a slower increase than under President Barack Obama’s budget, but the debt would still rise substantially.
He says his plan would “bring deficits below $1 trillion immediately, ending the era of trillion-dollar deficits.” True — but just barely. The 2012 deficit in his plan would be $995 billion, just shy of $1 trillion. It would drop to about $700 billion by 2013 — but that’s what the president’s budget projects, too.”
I don’t know if you are lying to me or are conflating, as Bookman often does with the facts. The recent deficits have been in the 1.5 – 1.6 trillion dollar range. Reducing the deficit to a trillion or so, IS an actual decrease of $500 billion.
Yes, we know that the national debt would continue to rise. This IS a solution should you care to notice it. It is a mild solution (I prefer Rand Paul’s myself), but even Obama won’t come off the golf course to discuss it. He will instead send Biden to do his naysaying for him.
Guy over there
June 30th, 2011
4:33 pm
ANOTHER ONE BITES THE DUST!!!!!!
Geithner to Consider Leaving Treasury After Debt Debate
Keep on defending this awful administration, Jay!
AmVet
June 30th, 2011
4:35 pm
buck, go back and sit at the kids table. Where fact-free posts are the rule.
The adults are trying to discuss ACA, etc…
Dusty
June 30th, 2011
4:35 pm
LOGICAL DUDE
But da rich do pay da taxes! A whole heap of ‘em! You got the itch for a bit of wealth yourself?
Hmmmmmmmm
June 30th, 2011
4:35 pm
The utter madness of not raising the debt…… Spoken by someone who has never seen a Tax increase he didn’t like…. Unless of course the tax increase was Republican in origination… Pathetic…
Logical Dude
June 30th, 2011
4:36 pm
Scott: I am just against raising taxes without making significant cuts to some excessive spending.
I understand your thinking. But reality shows that we need to do everything we can right now. Some of the spending cuts can be done now, and the taxes can be done now. Some spending cannot be touched this year, so it can take a while to cut everything that needs cutting.
You mention a few specifics, but each of those has a certain value to society as a whole. Also with Tax breaks, each of the tax breaks had a reason and would also give value to society as a whole. EVERYTHING must be reviewed. Many tax breaks will be easy to remove, but other tax breaks will be hard. I don’t want to give up my Mortgage deduction, but if it’ll help the country in the long run, that’s one of the sacrifices needed.
Because in the long run, we still want a viable country wth a AAA rating. If we don’t, then the whole country suffers EVEN WORSE than if a taxes were raised.
John Galt
June 30th, 2011
4:36 pm
Dave R.-
He is definitely both.
I haven’t follwed this blog today, but it looks as though a lot of perople who hate capitalism and have accepted a life of mediocricy have chosen to be jealous of and attack the successful rather than have ambition them selves.
It would be amusing if they were not dangerous when they are herded together and vote.
Peter
June 30th, 2011
4:37 pm
Hey Joe Mama…I can see food….but all your “necessities” gas, water, power has to have a tax on it to make feasible..but that is am opinion.
Scott
June 30th, 2011
4:38 pm
Peter. I am for eliminating income tax and installing a consumption tax but you run into a couple issues. Who is going to ensure it is being doing right? That would probably entail even more government intervention in businesses as they have to monitor all of their records. Second, this might end up leading to a barter system to avoid the taxes. The buyer gives the seller something in exchange for something else and neither exchange involved money. A flat tax across the board would probably be better.
Peter
June 30th, 2011
4:39 pm
Hey Dave R.
“In all sincerity, I can’t tell whether Obama is unintelligent or simply in over his head.”
Kinda like Bush ?
AmVet
June 30th, 2011
4:40 pm
Kinda like Bush ?
He was both.
Dusty
June 30th, 2011
4:42 pm
REAL SCOOTER,
I hear Ya! But I wish you would stop humming and whistling and go to moaning. Bookman’s gone into “torture”, as if we haven’t had enough already. That boy never learns!
buck@gon
June 30th, 2011
4:43 pm
AmVet @ 4:35,
I expected such a non-answer, but why go and act that way? If one is a liberal, when one can’t argue against Reagan, Buckley, Limbaugh, Will, Steyn, Bachman, Rubio or Perry, one generally resorts to giggling with the audience (John Stewart, Stephen Colbert, Bill Maher) or using mean, unsubstantiated BS to demagogue (Obama, Frank, Pelosi, Reid, Shumer).
I beg you; for your own sake. Let go of your jealousy; don’t give in to hate. (That leads to the dark side!)
If you can’t let go of it, please please please don’t vote in the next election!
Scott
June 30th, 2011
4:43 pm
Joe mama, a consumption tax like you described would basically just saddle the middle class and above for this country’s tax burden. There would basically be no change from the status today.
Adam
June 30th, 2011
4:44 pm
If the dems think that not raising the debt ceiling is dangerous, offer some spending cuts.
Uh, they have. They continue to do so. THAT is why “one side is holding hostage.” Get it now?
Joe Mama
June 30th, 2011
4:46 pm
Peter — What if consumption taxes were simply built into utility rates?
AmVet
June 30th, 2011
4:49 pm
buck, what do you expect?
You countermanded not one single fact I posted. You never even referenced any of them.
You just show up and blather on like some parrot about wealth envy and generally puke up paragraphs of meaningless and unrelated drivel.
Debate the facts I posted or as WC said, “Go away son, you bother me.”
However, I’m sure others here suffer fools gladly…
Joe Mama
June 30th, 2011
4:49 pm
Scott — “Joe mama, a consumption tax like you described would basically just saddle the middle class and above for this country’s tax burden. There would basically be no change from the status today.”
Well, I think it would depend on how deeply and how broadly the tax was implemented. If necessities as I outlined above were exempted, that would lighten the burden on the middle and lower classes. Perhaps you have some ideas for ways that such a tax could be implemented that would ease up on the lower and middle classes?
Scott
June 30th, 2011
4:52 pm
Joe mama….For my reasons I listed to Peter, I am against a consumption tax. I used to be all for it until I read about those points somewhere which made me think that it would be a bad idea and hard to manage. therefore, I am for a flat tax across the board. Everybody pays the same % of income. No tax breaks. No need to file. It gets taken right out of your payroll tax. I would also give the option to people top get out of the Social Security Ponzi Scheme. I would give up my rights right now to all money i have put in that in exchange for never having to contribute to that again. I think many people would do the same thing. Now, you would lose my revenue coming into it, but you also take away a future entitlement.
John Galt
June 30th, 2011
5:01 pm
1) Establish a reasonable personal exemption so that the poor are not taxed out of their ability to eat and live;
2) Estimate the revenues necessary to sustain the government;
3) Determine the total income of the taxpayers after personal exemptions;
4) #2 divided by #3 is the resultant flat income tax.
If the people of america were seeing their rates tied to government spending, they might put a bit more pressure on the pols to eliminate waste.
The problem is that rules and regulations must still be established for allowable business expenses- you can’t tax businesses on GROSS income, the costs of making money must be deducted; therefore, special interests will still be at work in DC. Alas, we must still deal with those “private corporate jets”.
Joe Mama
June 30th, 2011
5:02 pm
Scott — “Joe mama….For my reasons I listed to Peter, I am against a consumption tax. I used to be all for it until I read about those points somewhere which made me think that it would be a bad idea and hard to manage. therefore, I am for a flat tax across the board.”
Are you for the Fair Tax? Isn’t that a flat consumption tax?
“Everybody pays the same % of income. No tax breaks. No need to file. It gets taken right out of your payroll tax.”
I have a number of big issues with the Fair Tax or anything resembling it.
“I would also give the option to people top get out of the Social Security Ponzi Scheme.”
Really? When you double your money immediately?
I’d like to see the cap on FICA taxes lifted, the retirement age gradually increased to 70, a modest increase in payroll taxes (but not until we get the economy on better footing) and some means-testing combined with reduced benefits for wealthy retirees. Social Security is insurance, not a retirement program — and if you have a secure retirement, you don’t need the insurance payoff. It’s just like having homeowners’ insurance — you don’t get your money back if your house doesn’t burn down. In short, I think there are a number of small adjustments we can make — having everyone share the pain — to make SS solvent for a long time to come. And I think we should do it.
“I would give up my rights right now to all money i have put in that in exchange for never having to contribute to that again. I think many people would do the same thing. Now, you would lose my revenue coming into it, but you also take away a future entitlement.”
I think that SS is a wise contribution, and I think that a lot of people who got their retirement savings slammed in the last few years would agree with me. My wife and I both have 401ks, we’ve got a Roth, we’ve got an equities account AND I have a pension program at work. We may well not need SS, but I want it there IN CASE something happens in the next 20 years, before I retire.
Doggone/GA
June 30th, 2011
5:03 pm
“That sounds quite interesting! Is there a name for the study or the people who did it so I can look it up?”
I wish I could remember. I might have heard it on NPR, but as I said it was quite a while ago – maybe 10 years or more. Try searching for “study election rank candidates” and see how far you get. But that’s just a guess.
John Galt
June 30th, 2011
5:04 pm
Adam-
I don’t know you well enough to call you a liar, but you are telling a lie.
The whole standstill is that the dems won’t offer spending cuts and the GOP won’t agree to tax increases.
Is this too difficult for you?
Jay
June 30th, 2011
5:07 pm
That is incorrect, John Galt. By Eric Cantor’s own public admission, the Democrats have agreed to some $2 trillion in cuts through the Biden negotiations.
Now, either Cantor is lying, or you need to retract. Your choice.
Joe Mama
June 30th, 2011
5:08 pm
John Galt — “I don’t know you well enough to call you a liar, but you are telling a lie. The whole standstill is that the dems won’t offer spending cuts and the GOP won’t agree to tax increases.”
No. That’s not true. It has been pointed out many times on this blog (including by Jay himself) that the Democrats have so far agreed to $2T in spending cuts and have agreed to work on more. IIRC, Congressman Cantor has even said so publicly.
getalife
June 30th, 2011
5:15 pm
Four more years in 12.
Deal with it.
Sasha
June 30th, 2011
5:17 pm
It’s been brought up already, but considering that Obama knew his symbolic (and admittedly political) vote as a senator would have no economic consequence, there is no comparison to the current kooks in Congress who have the ability to pull the trigger and are very well aware of the outcome.
John Galt
June 30th, 2011
5:21 pm
I have not read Cantor’s admissions- if I read it elsewhere I will recant and apologize; sorry Jay, you are not a credible source IMO.
This does beg the question- TWO TRILLION- over how long? How much is out of defense and how much is out of entitlements?
Jay, since you have chosen to chip in, why haven’t you written about Obama’s “I’m not fearmongering” (the GOP will eliminate scholarships and Social Security won’t be paid while we pay interest to the Chinese) and “love these Alcoa workers making aluminum airplane wings” (gotta get those “private corporate jets”- oops, I’m late to get on AirForce One for a fundraising event).
Not a single ounce of staesman in that man- all fear-mongering, hypocricy, pandering and confusion. If I didn’t consider him dangerous I MIGHT feel sorry for him.
Mr Right
June 30th, 2011
5:23 pm
getalife
June 30th, 2011
5:15 pm
Four more years in 12.
Deal with it.
It will take a lot of dealing!
Peter
June 30th, 2011
5:24 pm
Hey Joe Mama ….. The retirement age 70 ?
That is too late in my opinion…… Also the more you earn the more the flat tax should be….but hey another opinion.
John Galt
June 30th, 2011
5:25 pm
I do retract my 5:04, but still presume that the cuts are over a LONG time and are dubious.
Jay, can you guide me to your last retraction?
Jay
June 30th, 2011
5:26 pm
Will Fox News suffice as a source, John Galt?
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2011/06/28/eric-cantor-sets-trap-for-john-boehner/
getalife
June 30th, 2011
5:26 pm
“It will take a lot of dealing!”
You can do it.
Think country first.
Not party first.
John Galt
June 30th, 2011
5:29 pm
Jay-
I did my own research before I recanted, though all cuts are not equal.
And about your most recent retraction?
oldguy
June 30th, 2011
5:36 pm
Ah,
Back again!!
As a member of the evil rich(i.e. someone who has enough income to have to pay some income taxes) it was my responsibility to go out at least once a day and rob from the poor (i.e. anyone who does not make enough to pay income taxes)! My civic duty is now done; the poor will starve on the streets while waiting for non-existent health care.
It feels great to have accomplished something today……NOW…..
Joe Mama
June 30th, 2011
5:39 pm
Peter — “Hey Joe Mama ….. The retirement age 70 ? “That is too late in my opinion……”
Yeah, there have been a lot of demographic studies that show that people are living a *lot* longer now than they were when SS came into being. So one of the solutions to the SS funding problem is raising the retirement age (for full SS benefits) to 70. You can retire earlier for a lower benefit, or retire later for a larger benefit. My dad’s still working and in his mid-70s.
I don’t think that SS was meant to sustain a huge mass of people for 20+ years in retirement, but it seems to have turned into that.
“Also the more you earn the more the flat tax should be….but hey another opinion.”
So a *progressive* consumption tax? Am I understanding your idea? If that’s what you’re suggesting, please elaborate on your idea. I am intrigued.
Of course, if I’m reading you wrong, please correct me.
oldguy
June 30th, 2011
5:52 pm
“Also the more you earn the more the flat tax should be….but hey another opinion.”
Then its a progressive income tax…..just what we have…..Duh
oldguy
June 30th, 2011
5:55 pm
“That is incorrect, John Galt. By Eric Cantor’s own public admission, the Democrats have agreed to some $2 trillion in cuts through the Biden negotiations.”
Jay, thats over what, a hundred years??!!??
TruthBe
June 30th, 2011
6:00 pm
Anybody but obama in 2012.
Joe Mama
June 30th, 2011
7:12 pm
How much you selling those bumper stickers for, TruthBe?
buck@gon
June 30th, 2011
10:52 pm
Adam449
Countermanded?
Oooh, how about impeached? Better word.
I wasn’t addressing facts, you cdunce. I was poking what you wrote,if you want to know
jaypat
June 30th, 2011
10:58 pm
Trying to explain macroeconomics to the hoi polloi is like trying to explain fire to a fish.
buck@gon
June 30th, 2011
11:20 pm
Well said amvet. I do suffer you gladly. You also seem to suffer obama gladly. So, whatever’facts’ you bluster on about then,i agree for thag part.
buck@gon
June 30th, 2011
11:21 pm
Trying to understand jay b’s ignorance too.
Bill 'MAD AS H*LL' Orvis White
July 1st, 2011
7:16 am
Stop the spending. Stop the spending. Stop the spending! NOW! Tea Party Patriots like me and millions of others need to get off of our duffs and stage some type of rally in Washington before the August 2 vote, NOW! WHERE IS EVERYONE FOR THE LORD’S SAKE? WE THE PEOPLE need to go to these July 4 gatherings this weekend and Monday with shirts displaying a PROTEST date to Block the Debt Ceiling Raise! Get those Tea Party hats on and LET’S GO!!!!!. IF HUSSEIN OBAMA AND HIS THUGS IN HIS CABINET AND CONGRESS STRONG-ARM THE RIGHTFUL REPUBLICANS, CONSERVATIVE DEMOCRATS AND EVEN SOCIALIST-DEMOCRTS INTO RAISING THE CEILING, THEN WE THE PEOPLE NEED TO FIRE EACH AND EVERY MEMBER OF CONGRESS WHO VOTED ALONG WITH THIS GUTLESS SOCIALISTIC “PRESIDENT!”
C’MON PEOPLE, WAKE UP AND SMELL THE JAVA! GET YER HEADS OUT OF THE SAND AND LET THIS BIG BLOATED GOV’T KNOW THAT WE’RE NOT GOING TO TAKE IT ANY LONGER.
WE NEED TO LEARN THE HARD WAY, BUT CUTTING ENTITLEMENT SPENDING YESTERDAY. IF THAT MEANS PAINFUL CUTS TO SOCIALIST INSECURITY, MEDISCARE AND MEDIRAID, THEN SO BE IT! GOVERNMENT SPENDING IS THE ROOT OF ALL EVIL THAT HAS LED US TO THE MESS THAT WE ARE IN, PURE AND SIMPLE!!!!!!
GOOD NIGHT AND AMEN,
BILL
Adam
July 1st, 2011
9:24 am
Joe Mama: Yeah, there have been a lot of demographic studies that show that people are living a *lot* longer now than they were when SS came into being.
Those statistics are for people who are well off. The lower-middle to lower classes are at a lower threshold for life expectancy on average.
Adam
July 1st, 2011
11:08 am
Fox News or Rush must be touting the talking point that Democrats ONLY want tax increases and have not agreed to any cuts. Must be, because it’s not true AND it still seems to be believed.
deegee
July 1st, 2011
12:59 pm
HAHAHAHAHAHA! I caught the last part of a Maria Bartiromo – Alan Greenspan interview yesterday. Maria asked Alan about raising taxes. Alan said that there are a lot of tax expenditures like corporate subsidies, tax loopholes, etc. that should be closed. He mentioned that not only are they costly, they run counter to free market principles. GULP! So then Maria asked Alan about his support for the Bush tax cuts in the early part of the 2000’s. Alan said that he supported them because we had a budget surplus. He went on to say that he would never support a tax cut if you have to borrow money to pay for them. BIG GULP! “And now back to the studio”, says Maria (let them eat cake) Bartiromo.
Sensible Discussion
July 1st, 2011
6:27 pm
The Republicans have forgotten how to negotiate! They would like to push the country to the brink in order to score political points. While they’re playing with fire, the country, and ultimately the world could dive into a new recession if we default on our debt. No government or opposition would ever have dreamed about doing such a thing in the past.
http://www.politicsdisgust.com
DBCOOPER
July 1st, 2011
6:47 pm
The fact that we are here today to debate raising America’s debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the U.S. Government can’t pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government’s reckless fiscal policies. … Increasing America’s debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that ‘the buck stops here. Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better.
Senator BH Obama
Nuff said! The rest is all BS and mostly what comes out of Bookmans mouth.
New Tea Party Tactic: Deny Reality « The Sound of EmCeeKhan
July 6th, 2011
9:42 am
[...] will not result in the US defaulting. Although all the evidence and every economist tells us otherwise. Just more proof that the Tea Party is full of crackpots and ignorant fools. The White House [...]