The utter madness of not raising the debt ceiling
The United States would immediately have its top-notch credit rating slashed to “selective default” if it misses a debt payment on Aug. 4, Standard & Poor’s managing director John Chambers told Reuters.
Chambers, who is also the chairman of S&P’s sovereign ratings committee, told Reuters on Tuesday that U.S. Treasury bills maturing on Aug. 4 would be rated ‘D’ if the government fails to honor them. Unaffected Treasuries would be downgraded as well, but not as sharply, he said.
“If the U.S. government misses a payment, it goes to D,” Chambers said.
“The full consequence of a default — or even the serious prospect of default — by the United States are impossible to predict and awesome to contemplate. Denigration of the full faith and credit of the United States would have substantial effects on the domestic financial markets and on the value of the dollar in exchange markets. The nation can ill afford to allow such a result. The risks, the costs, the disruptions, and the incalculable damage lead me to but one conclusion: the Senate must pass the legislation before the Congress adjourns.”
Social Security benefits could be among the first casualties if President Obama and Congress can’t agree to increase the government’s debt limit on Aug. 2, a new analysis shows.
The Bipartisan Policy Center studied Treasury Department receipts and expenditures for August 2009 and 2010 and determined that the government likely would not have enough revenue to pay the full $23 billion payment to Social Security recipients due on Aug. 3.
On that day, according to the analysis, the government would take in about $12 billion in taxes and other revenue but would owe $32 billion, creating a $20 billion shortfall….
“We should be honest with ourselves what this would be like, and the answer is it would be chaotic,” said Jerome Powell, a former Treasury official in the first Bush administration. “There is no way to avoid really serious pain.”
From the Bipartisan Policy Center, documenting what the federal government could and could not continue to pay for once the debt ceiling is hit and the government is prohibited from borrowing additional funds:
Everything above the red line could theoretically be financed, although in practice that would be very difficult because inflows and outflows are so “lumpy,” BPC analysts conclude. (In addition, this is what a “balanced budget” would look like absent additional revenue. To preserve those things above the red line, every expenditure below the red line would have to end.)
In other words, we could continue to pay off bondholders such as China for a few weeks. They could, theoretically, still get paid. But we couldn’t pay our own soldiers. No government salaries would be paid at all, including for those employees who would supposedly be sending out the checks to China and elsewhere.
It is suicidal madness to even contemplate such a step.
– Jay Bookman
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842 comments Add your comment
willie lynch
June 30th, 2011
1:50 pm
poison pen
June 30th, 2011
1:42 pm
Have you ever managed a P&L?
Adam
June 30th, 2011
1:51 pm
Rich: Taxes won’t need to go up substantially once the economy recovers (which, btw, is the next argument if we end up with a recovered economy and start talking about the expiration of the tax cuts around that time). Since income taxes are percentage of income, more income for everyone means more tax revenue. The richest won’t get that income flowing in as much as if they had more people buying their stuff.
Uncle Jed
June 30th, 2011
1:53 pm
@BADA BING
June 30th, 2011
12:53 pm
+++++++++++++++++++++++
OMG- my sides are hurting
Hey- If you want to hear a funny as heck recording about Yugo try to find Paul Shanklin and look for that parody. It has something to do with “a liberal guy and a liberal gal in a Yugo” and it is set to Elvis’s In the Ghetto
Logical Dude
June 30th, 2011
1:53 pm
oldguy: As I have said BFD!!
So you’re okay with all of the consequences of a National Default on its debt? I’m just verifying because that’s the way your comments come across.
Nothing will change your mind about the need to increase the debt limit?
BADA BING
June 30th, 2011
1:53 pm
Have a July 4th party this weekend. Celebrate the fact that if you are financilly solvent, with no debt, YOU have more money than the US Gov’t!
AmVet
June 30th, 2011
1:55 pm
josef, I absolutely love that. VERY clever.
And Sooth, thanks for the Skynyrd.
Tired of voodoo economic confabs, wish I was…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZ1tF6LgB40&feature=related
Mighty Righty
June 30th, 2011
1:56 pm
Any of you looney lefties, Granny, LWM, come on, I guess you can read, give i a try. Read my 1:48 and explain. Why! Why does Obama need an Army? I know you will have an excuse. Let’s hear it!
Granny Godzilla
June 30th, 2011
1:56 pm
Mighty Righty
“The truth about the new Ready Reserve Corps is a lot less interesting than the conspiracy theories. Before the law was passed, the Public Health Service, unlike other elements of the government’s seven uniformed services, didn’t have a “ready reserve” — a cadre of individuals who could be called up involuntarily in times of need. What it had was a regular, full-time corps of 2,800 doctors, nurses, scientists and other medical professionals, which was the limit under law. It also had a reserve corps. But most of the individuals in the reserve corps, which was larger than the regular corps, were on extended active duty for the duration of their careers; in other words, they worked full-time, just like the regular corps, because they were needed, but the statutory cap prevented the service from bringing them into the regular corps.
The new law eliminates the personnel cap and brings the members of what used to be the reserve corps into the regular corps, which as a result now numbers about 6,600, according to an official at the Public Health Service who spoke to us on background.
And the law creates the ready reserve of individuals who can be called up for service by the U.S. surgeon general in times of need; the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina is often used as an example of an incident that might trigger a call-up.”
From FactCheck.com
We of the Order are glad you haven’t found out where the party is Monday night, but better put on cast iron jockey pants just in case
when the surgeon general calls up his troops to care of the nuts on the right he doesn’t get confused about what or whose they might be….
Joe Mama
June 30th, 2011
1:57 pm
Righty — “Read it and tell me the logic for this. It is in the Obamacare bill. This a small represetive sample of several pages on this subject. ”
I don’t know *what* to think about it without context, but I’ve bookmarked this so I can read that section of the bill in detail.
When I hear “Ready Reserve,” I think of the IRR. Believe it or not, I actually got *activated* for *one day* while I was in the IRR. It was some sort of weird test of the IRR system where they pick out a handful of guys across the country and each one reports for some kind of timewaster duty for a day just so some civil service dude can say “yeah, the IRR system works.” I actually got orders and ended up being Mr. Gofer for a recruiting station for a day.
Dave R.
June 30th, 2011
1:57 pm
Interesting history on Ricardo Montalban, josef.
Had a bad fall from a horse back in 1951, and was in constant pain for the rest of his life. You can see him favoring his legs and back in the Police Squad! movie when trying to move.
Still acted in tons of movies and TV shows even after that accident.
Granny Godzilla
June 30th, 2011
1:58 pm
Paranoia is so wimpy.
AmVet
June 30th, 2011
1:59 pm
And Granny, tweren’t me!
I always run cover for union thugs, Black Panther thugs, ACORN thugs and teacher thugs…
Mighty Righty
June 30th, 2011
2:00 pm
Here lefty loonies. I dare you to look and listen to your man say on video tape he wants his own army.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGW136RLhSM&feature=related
Granny Godzilla
June 30th, 2011
2:01 pm
Mighty Righty
how about a nice “thanks Granny for taking the big scarey thing away”?
AmVet
June 30th, 2011
2:01 pm
Paranoia is so wimpy.
Love it, GG.
I’m sure BADA can cook up soemthing sweet for us about how confidence is sexy…
Adam
June 30th, 2011
2:02 pm
Mighty Righty: Here ya go. Not an “Obama Army”
willie lynch
June 30th, 2011
2:03 pm
Dave R.
June 30th, 2011
1:57 pm
24 year old has horrible car accident left in vegetative state for the rest of his life. What now?
Dave R.
June 30th, 2011
2:03 pm
Granny, it was me. I sent in my $5 for a dinner with Hope & Putt ™ and Plugs, and they sent me the secret handshake as a bonus!
I’m sending their secret passwords back with a virus attached . . .
nh_hiker
June 30th, 2011
2:03 pm
kiss your 401k goodbye
Granny Godzilla
June 30th, 2011
2:04 pm
Lefty loonies…from a scaredy cat?
Priceless.
YES…MIGHTY RIGHTY HE HAS FORMED HIS OWN SECRET ARMY AND WE ARE WATCHING YOU RIGHT NOW.
Those pants do nothing at all for your figure…..
Dave R.
June 30th, 2011
2:04 pm
willie lynch at 2:03:
WTF?
Granny Godzilla
June 30th, 2011
2:06 pm
Dave R
Don’t be such a bald faced liar….THE ARMY IS WATCHING YOU TOO….
ICK…Dave – go wash you hands/
Baby Suggs
June 30th, 2011
2:07 pm
Black man with his own private army = racists WORST fear evah!
Mighty Righty
June 30th, 2011
2:08 pm
Joe Mama
June 30th, 2011
1:57 pm
I had four years active and four years ready reserve. Lucky I wasn’t activated. This is different. The president is the sole judge of wheher or not here is a “national emergency.” True he needs the advice and consent of the Senate. It is also true he doesn’t need their advice and consent if they are on recess. My question is why is this needed?
Granny Godzilla
June 30th, 2011
2:09 pm
Worst ever….
Especially the Granny brigade trained with custom numchuks.
A ensure filled pocketbook on each end of the chain.
Prescision. Accuracy. Danger. Good Nutrition.
Joe Mama
June 30th, 2011
2:10 pm
Righty — “My question is why is this needed?”
Don’t know. As I said, I’m going to read that section of the bill in detail this weekend, but it looks like some people here already know what it is and have posted some information on it. Maybe you should ask them; they seem better informed about it than me.
AmVet
June 30th, 2011
2:11 pm
Black man with his own private army = racists WORST fear evah!
Reminds me of the infamous Eddie Murphy quote in 48 Hours.
http://tinyurl.com/3teqx3m
Did I ever tell you guys I climbed Molehill Rainier once?
Granny Godzilla
June 30th, 2011
2:11 pm
Mighty Righty
Did you really just ask why we might need an a corps of quickly deployed medical professionals?
Really?
There’s some land near Ft. Calhhoun and Los Alamos for sale…interested?
willie lynch
June 30th, 2011
2:12 pm
Dave R.
June 30th, 2011
2:04 pm
I apologize Dave, I thought we were in another one of those “see how he managed to do without help” moments. Will gladly open mouth and insert foot.
Joe Mama
June 30th, 2011
2:12 pm
GG — “Especially the Granny brigade trained with custom numchuks.”
“A ensure filled pocketbook on each end of the chain.”
“Prescision. Accuracy. Danger. Good Nutrition.”
Don’t forget that they throw handfuls of Metamucil into their opponents’ eyes to blind them.
Thulsa Doom
June 30th, 2011
2:12 pm
Translation — “I made a claim I couldn’t support and Joe sunk my battleship. Waaaahhhhhhh.”- Joe mama
Joe mama,
You sank my battleship? Otay otay. I’ll admit I laughed out loud on that one. Plans for the weekend? Yep. Gonna head down to the beach condo in Gulf Shores and if there is an air show or anything happening over at Pensacola NAS I’ll head over and watch. Haven’t been on here hardly at all on the weekends lately and I damn sure won’t be this weekend. Got lots of salt water fishing, swimming, and drinkin to do at the hangout and the florabama.
Uncle Jed
June 30th, 2011
2:13 pm
This POTUS; what a guy, what a leader. FORE!!!
White House snubs McConnell invitation to Obama
Reuters) – The White House effectively turned down an invitation by Republican Senate Leader Mitch McConnell for President Barack Obama to visit his members on Capitol Hill on Thursday to discuss raising the debt limit.
White House press secretary Jay Carney, while not directly saying the invitation had been rejected, said Obama did not need to hear Republicans tell him what they would not support.
That, Carney said, was “not a conversation worth having.”
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Before I head out, did I mention: IT’S THE ECONOMY, STUPID! ?
Peter
June 30th, 2011
2:15 pm
Shouldn’t we do what Republican’s do….to balance the budget ?
1. Start a war
2. Give away money via “Cost Plus Contracts
3. Cut taxes
4. Give most American’s a $600 check in April..and tell them to spend, spend, spend.
Won’t that get us out of debt ?
That has been the Republican plan so far…… saying and doing are two things……and Republican’s did all the above.
Gee no wonder we are in the mess we are in …….duhhhhhhhh !
Republican’s ” Bankrupting America since Regan was in office ! ”
Please remember our slogan……. ” Deficits don’t matter “
Granny Godzilla
June 30th, 2011
2:16 pm
Joe Mama
The citrus flavor really stings.
Thulsa Doom
June 30th, 2011
2:16 pm
Mighty Righty,
Speaking of corpse did you say where Obama was speaking the other day and he lauded that Navy corpsman? Apparently he doesn’t know how to pronounce it but 3 times he said corpse men. Someone should have explained to him that its pronounced core and not corpse. Dan Quayle aint got nothin on Obama when it comes to gaffes.
Left wing management
June 30th, 2011
2:17 pm
Granny Godzilla: “Do you think Mighty Righty might show up at our annual dance nude under the Fireworks 4th of July Party?”
All I can say is anytime Mighty Righty is likely to show up nude you’ll see Left Wing Management going in the opposite direction.
BADA BING
June 30th, 2011
2:18 pm
michelle o’s Secret Militia Fashion and Training Tips
Black Panther Edition
When intimidating White Voters, raise that billy club high to really burn those deltoids and lats
Berets are out, out, out. Were they ever in
Lighten up that severe, jack-booted, military look with open toed Doc Martins ™
Lighten your skin. Remember, Half Black is the new Black
Armbands are all the rage. Use African flag colors for that ambiguous, Third World Army look
Tight, Mr. T, sleeveless tanks to show off all those hours in the prision gym
Go for a less threating look with red sunglass frames by Vanderbilt
Remember, Racial Hatred doesn’t have to be bland and boring
LOL
June 30th, 2011
2:18 pm
old guy
I get it I know those subsidies and Corp. Jets, etc… are all red herrings and diversionary tactics. I just think the Republicans should call his bluff so to speak. Annouce it to the media today, We will be cutting ALL subsidies,Big Oil, etc… as the President has suggested, now can we get on with making some real progress and get some serious spending cuts. You’ve got your revenue increase by us closing loopholes and ending subsidies that we can no longer afford. Now if we can just shrink the size of this government and get it out of businesses way, we can produce even more revenue by getting people back to WORK!!!!!!!
Thulsa Doom
June 30th, 2011
2:18 pm
White House press secretary Jay Carney, while not directly saying the invitation had been rejected, said Obama did not need to hear Republicans tell him what they would not support.
That, Carney said, was “not a conversation worth having.”
How is that for leadership? Not even talking to the other side regarding the nation’s fiscal crisis. Is this guy living in an alternate universe or something?
Peter
June 30th, 2011
2:18 pm
By the way …..since there is no such thing as “Global Warming”……
God must be just playing with TEXAS……. and the drought they are having.
Midori
June 30th, 2011
2:18 pm
Granny G — you’re killing me here
love that sense of humor!!
Joe Mama
June 30th, 2011
2:19 pm
Doom — “Gonna head down to the beach condo in Gulf Shores”
Well, do drive safely on your way to and from the Redneck Riviera. As I tell my wife (who is a notorious leadfoot), ‘I’m not worried about you; it’s the other nitwits on the road that scare me.’
I was hit by a drunk driver about 15 years ago; he totaled both our cars and did a header through his windshield. Then he GOT UP and asked what happened. I walked away with bruises and scratches because I was driving a big iron thing (Caprice Classic) and because I had my seat belt on and cinched up tight.
So play it safe. Keep the shiny side up and the greasy side down.
LOL
June 30th, 2011
2:20 pm
Thulsa Doom-
It’s typical of our “Spectator in Chief”. This guy couldn’t lead ants to a picnic.
Granny Godzilla
June 30th, 2011
2:20 pm
Thulsa
I love the Florabama…..Great place to be sure.
Thulsa Doom
June 30th, 2011
2:20 pm
How does Barrack not know that his kids are 13 and 10 instead of 12 and 10 as he stated the other day? Sheeeesh.
Peter
June 30th, 2011
2:21 pm
Don’t worry Thulsa Doom ..
Maybe Obama will take a page out of the GOP Economics hand book, and cut taxes, start a WAR, or give $600 in checks to most Americans.
That should work wonders won’t it ?
Granny Godzilla
June 30th, 2011
2:22 pm
Midori
Hi sweeetie, How ARE you?
Thulsa Doom
June 30th, 2011
2:23 pm
Granny Gozilla,
Well good Lord Granny. We actually do have something in common. If I ever see you down there I will buy you one of them there froo froo drinks with the umbrellas in them. They’re quite tasty.
getalife
June 30th, 2011
2:23 pm
“What I’d like to see them do is agree on the outlines of a 10-year plan and agree not to start either the revenue hikes or the spending cuts until we’ve got this recovery underway,” Clinton added. “The confidence that the Republicans say would be given to investors with a budget plan, they’d get whether we started this year or next year or the year after that, for that matter.”
For the first time, the former president is focusing his Clinton Global Initiative on creating jobs here in the United States. He suggested waiting for the recovery to take hold before pushing spending cuts and tax increases will make the issues clearer.
“We’ve got to get the jobs back in this economy again,” Clinton said. “The more people we get going back to work, the more businesses we start, that’ll bring up the revenue flow, and it will cut down on the expenses. Then, we’ll see what the real dimensions of our problem are.”
Unfortunately, however, Clinton fears Republicans’ “ideological conviction” about never raising taxes recalls the lead-up to government shutdowns in the ’90s, adding that the pressure on GOP candidates to toe the ideological line could hamstring their bids to unseat President Obama.”
We have done it before.
lovelyliz
June 30th, 2011
2:24 pm
“Reagan,” Vice President Dick Cheney famously declared in 2002, “proved deficits don’t matter.”
lovelyliz
June 30th, 2011
2:24 pm
The Republicans haven’t always been against increasing the federal debt ceiling. This is the first time in recent history (the past decade or so) that no Republican has voted for the increase. In fact, on most of the ten other votes to increase the federal debt limit that the Senate has taken since 1997, the Republicans provided the majority of the votes in favor.
Thulsa Doom
June 30th, 2011
2:24 pm
start a WAR- Peter
Correction Peter. Bush started 2 wars. I mean come on. Let’s give the man credit where credit is due.
poison pen
June 30th, 2011
2:25 pm
willie lynch
poison pen
” Have you ever managed a P&L? ”
Yes Willie, every week.
lovelyliz
June 30th, 2011
2:25 pm
during the Bush presidency, the current GOP leadership team voted 19 times to increase debt limit. During his tenure, the U.S. national debt doubled
Mitch McConnell and John Boehner voted for all
Granny Godzilla
June 30th, 2011
2:25 pm
Thulsa
Can ya’ make a Jack and water?
Tundra Dude
June 30th, 2011
2:26 pm
White House snubs McConnell invitation to Obama
Reuters) – The White House effectively turned down an invitation by Republican Senate Leader Mitch McConnell for President Barack Obama to visit his members on Capitol Hill on Thursday to discuss raising the debt limit.
Should be nothing to discuss. The 3 Hypocrite/Stooges, McConnell, Cantor, and Bonehead, all voted for raising the debt ceiling _7_ times for Bush (the Frugal). Was there any requirement for budget cuts……??
lovelyliz
June 30th, 2011
2:27 pm
At the beginning of the Bush presidency, the United States debt limit was $5.95 trillion. Despite promises that he would pay off the debt in 10 years, Bush increased the debt to $9.815 trillionby the end of his term, with plenty of help from the four Republicans currently holding Congressional leadership positions: Speaker John Boehner, House Majority Leader Eric Cantor, Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, and Senate Minority Whip Jon Kyl. ThinkProgress compiled a breakdown of the five debt limit increases that took place during the Bush presidency and how the four Republican leaders voted:
June 2002: Congress approves a $450 billion increase, raising the debt limit to $6.4 trillion. McConnell, Boehner, and Cantor vote “yea”, Kyl votes “nay.”
May 2003: Congress approves a $900 billion increase, raising the debt limit to $7.384 trillion. All four approve.
November 2004: Congress approves an $800 billion increase, raising the debt limit to $8.1 trillion. All four approve.
March 2006: Congress approves a $781 billion increase, raising the debt limit to $8.965 trillion. All four approve.
September 2007: Congress approves an $850 billion increase, raising the debt limit to $9.815 trillion. All four approve.
Peter
June 30th, 2011
2:27 pm
Yes lovelyliz ….The Republican’s created a larger government, and more expenses than ever…..
One blogger noted Bush collected more in Tax money then Clinton…..but we know what happened next.
He spent like a drunken Republican Sailor.
Republican’s only know how to bankroll the rich, and who cares about the rest of the country !
Dave R.
June 30th, 2011
2:27 pm
Hope & Putt’s ™ political advisers should be fired.
He is sooo being set-up by the GOP right now.
The House will pass a deficit reduction plan.
The Senate will initially balk, but cave.
He’ll have to sign it or he’ll be blamed for defaulting.
His fawning, slobbering minions in the media won’t go to bat for him.
Book it, Dano!
Mighty Righty
June 30th, 2011
2:28 pm
Granny,non
You choose to believe there is a civilian corp of medical professonals consisting of Officers, Warrant Officers, and officers who can be called to active duty by the president and/or surgeon general. I’m just not that gullible. Why would Obama say he wanted an army bigger and better equiped than our military and in one speech in Colorado Springs said he wanted 500,000 in this army. Where were these pepole during Katrina? In fact where are they now, North Dakota, South Dakota, Missouri, Iowa, Illinois, Mississippi, Louisiana, Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, Alabama? FEMA hasn’t showed up. And this new medical army, havn’t heard from them. Maybe they are working for Justice and ATF selling guns to Mexicans.
At A Loss For Words
June 30th, 2011
2:28 pm
This is not a joking matter at all. Have you been paying attention to what is happening in Greece? Riots in the streets. Police firing tear gas at their own people. 40% unemployment.
Yes, we need to raise the debt ceiling AND cut spending. We should start by cutting foreign aid and military spending. Then we should raise tariffs on all imported goods.
Thulsa Doom
June 30th, 2011
2:29 pm
lovelyliz
June 30th, 2011
2:24 pm
“Reagan,” Vice President Dick Cheney famously declared in 2002, “proved deficits don’t matter.”
A widely misunderstood quote. According to some of the believers in the the premise of the Laeffer curve it is freely acknowledged that when you cut marginal tax rates that in the short term deficits may grow but in the longer term that tax revenues will increase and subsequent deficits decrease. Whether you believe the Laeffer curve or not it is the thinking behind the idea that in the very short term that deficits don’t matter if you’re going to reap greater tax revenue longer term.
Jm
June 30th, 2011
2:29 pm
Halperin calls Obama a d-ck, and he’s 90% correct
Dave R.
June 30th, 2011
2:29 pm
Yes, yes, lovely liz and Peter. We ALL know what happened in the past.
Many of us disagreed with it then, but the past no longer matters.
Please try to drag yourselves into the realm of the present, ‘K?
Peter
June 30th, 2011
2:30 pm
Yes Thulsa Doom…..
Let’s give Bush and the GOP credit….. the Wars and economic implosion is all theirs !
It is also nice to see reality…..as in how many time the GOP raised the debt ceiling while Bush was in office……….gee it wasn’t a bad idea then……wait until the “recession “.
Granny Godzilla
June 30th, 2011
2:30 pm
Mighty
AGAIN paranoia is really wimpy.
AmVet
June 30th, 2011
2:30 pm
Good on the Uppity Muslim. Tell McConnell to put on his big boy pants. Wasting people’s time with his do-nothingness is counter-productive.
i.e., put up or shut up.
Grow a spine and for once in your mealy-mouthed career stand up to your corporate overlords, ya toadie, and say, “Sorry that it had to happen on my watch boys, but your gravy train is pulling into the station. Quit bitchin’ like socialists and start acting like capitalists. Otherwise, Barry’s gonna sick his new black army on Kentucky!”
Ah yes, the Redneck Riviera. Great place, just too many rednecks!
Midori
June 30th, 2011
2:30 pm
I’m good Mrs. G.
Just trying to deal with this heat.
Peter
June 30th, 2011
2:31 pm
HA HA HA Dave R………. seems you want the fox running the hen house yet again ?
getalife
June 30th, 2011
2:31 pm
Dave,
He could say he will veto anything but a clean debt limit bill and put the blame on the gop.
Jm
June 30th, 2011
2:31 pm
Halperin left off: gutless, worthless and utterly lacking in any semblance of leadership
Thulsa Doom
June 30th, 2011
2:32 pm
lovelyliz
June 30th, 2011
2:27 pm
At the beginning of the Bush presidency, the United States debt limit was $5.95 trillion. Despite promises that he would pay off the debt in 10 years, Bush increased the debt to $9.815 trillionby the end of his term, with plenty of help from the four Republicans currently holding Congressional leadership positions:
True enough. As a matter of fact I believe someone posted earlier that in Bush’s 8 years the debt ran up was a little over 4 trillion. In Obama’s less than 3 years in office his debt has racked up roughly 3.9 trillion according to that post earlier. So which is worse? A little over 4 trillion in 8 years or 3.9 trillion in less than 3 years?
godless heathen
June 30th, 2011
2:32 pm
“Reuters) – The White House effectively turned down an invitation by Republican Senate Leader Mitch McConnell for President Barack Obama to visit his members on Capitol Hill on Thursday to discuss raising the debt limit.”
“White House press secretary Jay Carney, while not directly saying the invitation had been rejected, said Obama did not need to hear Republicans tell him what they would not support.
That, Carney said, was “not a conversation worth having.”
Translation: There is a vacation to pack for.
Granny Godzilla
June 30th, 2011
2:32 pm
Oh and Mighty…
Where were these people during…..and you ramble on…
What years were/are those things happening?
When does Obamacare ( I’m thinking we should keep that name) take effect?
Time and space….
Dave R.
June 30th, 2011
2:33 pm
“He could say he will veto anything but a clean debt limit bill and put the blame on the gop.”
Nope. Won’t work. He’s already admitted that cuts are needed, and his VP has been in all the negotiations.
Politically, THAT ship sailed months ago.
Peter
June 30th, 2011
2:34 pm
Hey Thusla Doom….all this……Whether you believe the Laeffer curve or not it is the thinking behind the idea that in the very short term that deficits don’t matter if you’re going to reap greater tax revenue longer term.
Gee if taxes are cut as with Bush….that all works out ?
And are the economics of the world, still in the same place as when that idea was hatched ?
getalife
June 30th, 2011
2:34 pm
Dave,
He could say he will veto anything but the deal they made.
Is that ship sailing?
Dave R.
June 30th, 2011
2:36 pm
“seems you want the fox running the hen house yet again ?”
No, Peter, I do not. You are NOT qualified to put words in my mouth or make conclusions for me, got it?
But playing the blame game and saying that the GOP did it (when deficits and debt were much smaller, btw, and therefore less threatening to our economic health), doesn’t fix the problem we have TODAY.
Peter
June 30th, 2011
2:36 pm
wow Thulsa Doom…. I guess you weren’t around for the recession were you ?
All that debt Obama racked up…….. or was it really the WAR costs finally got into the real budget numbers ?
Thulsa Doom
June 30th, 2011
2:37 pm
Peter,
And how many wars are we in now? In addition to Agh and Iraq we are bombing in Libya, bombing pakistan, and depending on who you believe we are supposedly conducting covert bombing runs in Yemen. And I saw that on CNN not Fox.
As for the debt ceiling we will once again have to raise it. Its inevitable and the Republicans will cave on the issue. They have to. Blaming Bush doesn’t alleviate the even more grandiose deficit spending that has been occurring under Obama. Both deserve blame but Bush is not in office now. Obama is and the situation is now more dire than ever.
Dave R.
June 30th, 2011
2:37 pm
“He could say he will veto anything but the deal they made.”
You would have to have a “deal’ first. He doesn’t have one.
Keep trying.
Dave R.
June 30th, 2011
2:38 pm
“That, Carney said, was “not a conversation worth having.”
Translation: Tee time at 4:15.
AmVet
June 30th, 2011
2:38 pm
How long has Mealy-mouthed McConnell been in Washington, anyway? 30 years? Like a boatload of the other incompetents?
Talk about being a HUGE part of the nation’s growing problems over the past three decades.
But they have so much money and hubris, they are shameless…
Peter
June 30th, 2011
2:38 pm
Gee Dave R…. Yes the Republican’s did it…and I don’t care to have the Foxes running the Hen House……I posed a question……perhaps you didn’t get that part ?
So Bush’s WAR’s, and bailing out Corporate America was that small debt you speak of ?
getalife
June 30th, 2011
2:39 pm
Dave,
I think they have a deal on the table.
Getting the gop to vote for it is a different story.
They will need the dems in the house.
Thulsa Doom
June 30th, 2011
2:39 pm
Peter,
The recession was a bad one. But we’ve had numerous recessions since WW 2 and have recovered well from every one of them. The key is what you do to pull out of them and the economic results show that this is the worst recovery ever. When things bottom out there is nowhere to go but up. Yet we are still stuck in neutral. The recession can be blamed on Bush. The anemic recovery is all Obama.
Peter
June 30th, 2011
2:40 pm
Yes Thusla Doom……. All has cought up with us…..SO things are more dire today.
Not so hard to fathom…..kind of like having a $20 K credit card debt, and borrowing to pay off the minimum balance.
Peter
June 30th, 2011
2:42 pm
Yes Thusla Doom…. We need to recover…But corporate America has out sourced America workers, and the entire economic landscape has changed…..
All the rules have changed, but one…… GOP won’t tax the rich.
Mighty Righty
June 30th, 2011
2:43 pm
Lovely Liz
For your reading and enjoyment.
Increase in national deby by president:
Ronald Reagan’s First Term – $656 billion increase
> Ronald Reagan’s Second Term – $1.036 trillion increase
> George H.W. Bush’s Term – $1.587 trillion increase
> Bill Clinton’s First Term – $1.122 trillion increase
> Bill Clinton’s Second Term – $418 billion increase
> George W. Bush’s First Term – $1.885 trillion increase
> George W. Bush’s Second Term – $3.014 trillion increase
> Barack Obama’s First “Year” – $1.573 trillion increase
AmVet
June 30th, 2011
2:43 pm
Last week, the House voted overwhelmingly against giving Obama the authority to continue the military mission but stopped short of cutting off funds. House Republicans and Democrats contend that Obama has not provided a compelling rationale for the operation and ignored Congress in not seeking its authority.
Seventy Democrats abandoned the president on the 295-123 vote.
Thin how many GIs would still be alive if 70 Republicans (instead of 7!!!!!) had had the balls to stand up to George of the Bungle…
getalife
June 30th, 2011
2:43 pm
“The anemic recovery is all Obama.”
Check the jobs gained every month until the gop played politics with a default.
It is the gop’s fault.
Peter
June 30th, 2011
2:44 pm
Hey Mighty Righty ……
How much of Obama’s $1.573 trillion increase had to do with Corporate Bailout ?
larry
June 30th, 2011
2:46 pm
The White House effectively turned down an invitation by Republican Senate Leader Mitch McConnell for President Barack Obama to visit his members on Capitol Hill on Thursday to discuss raising the debt limit.”
“White House press secretary Jay Carney, while not directly saying the invitation had been rejected, said Obama did not need to hear Republicans tell him what they would not support.
That, Carney said, was “not a conversation worth having.”
Didnt McConnell say the Senate Republicans main job was to make the President a one-termer?
And people wonder why the President will not meet with him ?
willie lynch
June 30th, 2011
2:46 pm
poison pen
June 30th, 2011
2:25 pm
And it is an understanding you employ that by cutting the spending of your business you will grow that business?
Mighty Righty
June 30th, 2011
2:46 pm
Granny Godzilla
June 30th, 2011
2:32 pm
Sorry, I thought you could tell by the list. These are natural disasters which have occured this calender year. I understand your confusion. Between campaigning and golf, Obama hasn’t had time to bite his lip and do a flyover for the cameras.
larry
June 30th, 2011
2:48 pm
How much of Obama’s $1.573 trillion increase had to do with Corporate Bailout ?
And puttng the costs of the wars on the books instead of using supplemental budgets to fund them?
Peter
June 30th, 2011
2:49 pm
Hey Mighty Right…… Now I am wondering between these two numbers…….
> George W. Bush’s Second Term – $3.014 trillion increase
> Barack Obama’s First “Year” – $1.573 trillion increase
How much of this money was Corporate Bailouts ?
Peter
June 30th, 2011
2:50 pm
Gee Larry…… this statement…..And puttng the costs of the wars on the books instead of using supplemental budgets to fund them?
There you go….no more Voodoo GOP economics you mean ?
Mighty Righty
June 30th, 2011
2:50 pm
Peter
June 30th, 2011
2:44 pm
Hey Mighty Righty ……
How much of Obama’s $1.573 trillion increase had to do with Corporate Bailout ?
According to Obama we got all that money back. So I guess I waould say zero.
Thulsa Doom
June 30th, 2011
2:51 pm
Peter,
I have a feeling that the Bush tax cuts will end. But if we do end the Bush tax cuts we should probably just wait until the economy is on more solid footing before doing so. My only fear is that ending them during a precarious economic period may vault us right back into a double dip recession.
Incidentally the last CBO numbers I saw showed that for FY 2011 that the Bush tax cuts cost the Treasur6 46 billion dollars. If the FY 2011 deficit was 1.74 trillion than that 46 billion would only have reduced the deficit to roughly 1.6 trillion. The obvious problem to any fair minded person still remains spending- not tax cuts.