The utter madness of not raising the debt ceiling
The United States would immediately have its top-notch credit rating slashed to “selective default” if it misses a debt payment on Aug. 4, Standard & Poor’s managing director John Chambers told Reuters.
Chambers, who is also the chairman of S&P’s sovereign ratings committee, told Reuters on Tuesday that U.S. Treasury bills maturing on Aug. 4 would be rated ‘D’ if the government fails to honor them. Unaffected Treasuries would be downgraded as well, but not as sharply, he said.
“If the U.S. government misses a payment, it goes to D,” Chambers said.
“The full consequence of a default — or even the serious prospect of default — by the United States are impossible to predict and awesome to contemplate. Denigration of the full faith and credit of the United States would have substantial effects on the domestic financial markets and on the value of the dollar in exchange markets. The nation can ill afford to allow such a result. The risks, the costs, the disruptions, and the incalculable damage lead me to but one conclusion: the Senate must pass the legislation before the Congress adjourns.”
Social Security benefits could be among the first casualties if President Obama and Congress can’t agree to increase the government’s debt limit on Aug. 2, a new analysis shows.
The Bipartisan Policy Center studied Treasury Department receipts and expenditures for August 2009 and 2010 and determined that the government likely would not have enough revenue to pay the full $23 billion payment to Social Security recipients due on Aug. 3.
On that day, according to the analysis, the government would take in about $12 billion in taxes and other revenue but would owe $32 billion, creating a $20 billion shortfall….
“We should be honest with ourselves what this would be like, and the answer is it would be chaotic,” said Jerome Powell, a former Treasury official in the first Bush administration. “There is no way to avoid really serious pain.”
From the Bipartisan Policy Center, documenting what the federal government could and could not continue to pay for once the debt ceiling is hit and the government is prohibited from borrowing additional funds:
Everything above the red line could theoretically be financed, although in practice that would be very difficult because inflows and outflows are so “lumpy,” BPC analysts conclude. (In addition, this is what a “balanced budget” would look like absent additional revenue. To preserve those things above the red line, every expenditure below the red line would have to end.)
In other words, we could continue to pay off bondholders such as China for a few weeks. They could, theoretically, still get paid. But we couldn’t pay our own soldiers. No government salaries would be paid at all, including for those employees who would supposedly be sending out the checks to China and elsewhere.
It is suicidal madness to even contemplate such a step.
– Jay Bookman
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842 comments Add your comment
Howdy Hi
June 30th, 2011
12:07 pm
AmVet…….so let’s simplify this a bit. Until the Obama Adm proves that they can be stewards of our tax revenue – adding more revenue (aka higher taxes) will just give them a blank check to spend more money. Until that happens….nothing else matters. Maybe we should start with the First Lady’s 750k-1M trip to South Africa…..I’m just sayin’.
getalife
June 30th, 2011
12:08 pm
Mike,
The only poll that matters is the 12 election.
Steven Q. Stanley
June 30th, 2011
12:08 pm
Jay, do you have kids, how much debt are you willing to leave them?
khc
June 30th, 2011
12:09 pm
they need to set debt limit not in absolute dollars, but rather the debt service is limited as a % of total budget….this has served ga well as our bonds have historically been triple a and seems to me a better guide than an absolute amount that has to be argued almost every year….
Scott
June 30th, 2011
12:09 pm
get a life
“Surrendering to the gop debt is not a option.” No idea what you are talking about there.
“We will not commit suicide like you cons want.” Apparently, you want to given that you voted for Obama and that you just want to repeat the same old failed policies that have yielded an economy that is about to go into a double dip.
“Debate the budget for cuts but do not steal more jobs.
It is best to cut when the economy is strong not when it is collapsing.” The only way that jobs will not be stolen and the economy will be strong is to get Obama out of there.
“Common sense.” Something you have NONE of.
Dave R.
June 30th, 2011
12:09 pm
And just remember who will be blamed for this if they miss the debt ceiling window – Democrats.
Because the House WILL pass something and send it to the Senate.
Winning!
getalife
June 30th, 2011
12:11 pm
The dems agree to 2 trillion in cuts so lets put the lie the dems will not cut spending to rest.
The gop is playing politics with a default for the election.
The gop are party over country
josef
June 30th, 2011
12:11 pm
Okay…my comments were in response to willie’s response to midtownguy’s comment as to tell the people in those rich states why they should be sending some cash to the Bible Belt…why? Does the word resititution ring a bell? It’s payback for the failure to effect land reform and true reconstruction when the victors left precisely these territories a burnt to the ground wasteland without a pot to piss in or a window to throw it out of, took the booty and went back home to let it wallow in its squalor…on, they trampled out the vintage where the grapes of wrath were stored, all right…yeah, they owe something…
stands for decibels
June 30th, 2011
12:11 pm
I guess you aren’t watching Obama’s approval numbers very closely
He’s pretty much running neck-and-neck with that utter political failure Ronald Reagan at this point in his first term.
http://www.gallup.com/poll/124922/Presidential-Approval-Center.aspx
Yeah, you can probably write him off.
willie lynch
June 30th, 2011
12:11 pm
Common Sense
June 30th, 2011
12:01 pm
They didn’t remain that way did they? Explain to me the need for tax cuts under the previous President when the economy was in good shape and the people had prospered under the tax obligation that was in place.
Joe Mama
June 30th, 2011
12:12 pm
Mike — “George W Bush was the most prolific tax collector in our nation’s history. During Clinton’s 8 years,$5.66 trillion was collected. During Bush’s 8 years,$7.45 trillion was collected.”
And yet Clinton left office with notable budget surpluses, while Bush left office with large annual deficits, thereby increasing the national debt.
Would you rather be the guy who makes $40K a year but whose house and car are paid off or the guy who makes $100K and is barely keeping a roof over his head because he’s carrying so much debt?
Dave R.
June 30th, 2011
12:12 pm
“What is amazing in all this are average, though ignorant, Americans who unwittingly support their actions.”
Ahhh. The typical liberal “we’re too stupid” argument. Thanks, Gator. Took you long enough to play THAT card.
Scott
June 30th, 2011
12:12 pm
Howdy Hi…Careful. now the libs will just say :”But Laura Bush spent $x to go to Y” They do not realize that we want ALL of them to stop the frivolous spending. Rep Dem Ind….we want them all to stop it. Libs just only want to focus on blaming Reps.
AmVet
June 30th, 2011
12:12 pm
Several problems, Mike.
The revenue load is being borne artificially by a relatively small number of “beneficiaries”.
Eliminate the hundreds (Hell, thousands!) of frivolous “tax breaks”, contrived “exemptions” and counter-productive loopholes for BIG business and revenues would skyrocket. To the tune of about $4,000,000,000.00 per year, for one industry alone! BIG OIL.
Multiply that by X for BIG PHARMA and BIG AGRIBUSINESS AND BIG, BIG BIG DEFENSE AND BIG, BIG, BIGGER BANKS and you start realizing the scale of these giveaways. (Well, they’re not really giveaways since YOU are paying for them, directly or indirectly.)
Throw in at least another $3,000,000,000.00 from the states every year and it ain’t chicken feed.
The revenue shortfall is gargantuan, especially in light of the Pentagon’s budget of $700,000,000,000.00 per year. Not counting secret budgets not disclosed for “National Security” reasons…
Peter
June 30th, 2011
12:13 pm
George Bush and the GOP had a great idea…send everyone $600…..that got the economy going ?
Let’s start wars and cut taxes…..that got the economy going, and got us cheap gas correct ?
Don’t raises taxes for the rich a cent……they are going to be kind to the poor !
Joe Mama
June 30th, 2011
12:13 pm
Dave R — “Because the House WILL pass something and send it to the Senate.”
My dog will pass something, too, but I think I’d get in trouble if I sent it to the Senate.
Brosephus
June 30th, 2011
12:15 pm
dB @ 11:43
Dave R.
June 30th, 2011
12:15 pm
“He’s pretty much running neck-and-neck with that utter political failure Ronald Reagan at this point in his first term.”
And the difference in using analysis rather than a single statistic in making a point, is that Reagan’s economy improved over the following year.
Thus far there are no signs of similar improvement in Hope & Putt’s ™ .
Scott
June 30th, 2011
12:16 pm
Joe mama… “And yet Clinton left office with notable budget surpluses,” Prove it. This is quite possibly one of the biggest lies you libs continue to repeat over and over again. He did not leave us with a surplus at all. He stole from Social Security to make the impression of a surplus. Ever heard of intergovernmental transfer. I am so sick of hearing that stupid lie told over and over and over again.
Dave R.
June 30th, 2011
12:16 pm
I hear the cages rattling at the Yerkes Primate Center again . . .
josef
June 30th, 2011
12:17 pm
JOE MAMA
“My dog will pass something, too, but I think I’d get in trouble if I sent it to the Senate.”
But if you can get the same product from a bull or a horse and send it, they’ll be glad to get it. They can always use some more…
cosby smith
June 30th, 2011
12:17 pm
Liers figure anf figures lie….the truth is the US Government is Broke and you cannot borrow your way out of this mess. the solution is to cut spending..perhaps we can start by those mean corporate Jets used in Gopvernment like Air Force 1 and Air Force 2 used by the first Lady – along with other jets she takes along and her entire service personel+ family members. then we can cut pension benefits and medical benefits for congress and the white house. then we can take their campaign war chest and use it to help with the debt. then we can tax at a 75% rate all money raised in campaigns by both parties..now that is a start…sorry folks, the truth hurts and there will be pain and borrowing more is not the solution..but Jay likes that so why do we not use his credit card!!!
Joe Cool~"PRESIDENT Obama" Tells Birthers,"Thanks For Playing BI+CHES"
June 30th, 2011
12:17 pm
THe CONs are all over th place with this mess. Political theater! The Admin. has 2 trillon on the table in cuts and even though i would want more, the Cons wont budge a bit on the taxes. There is no compromise with them. The Prez needs to invite them all to a meeting, live stream via C-Span and give them the business like in HC reform LIVE, so that we all can see that the CONs arent giving on anything. The CONs need watch out, because if push comes to sholve, the Prez constitutionally might be able to make a case to side-step Congress.
Cons complain about the 40 something percent that pay no taxes, yet in the next sentence say we dont have a revenue problem…which is it Cons?
Joe Mama
June 30th, 2011
12:17 pm
Dave — “And the difference in using analysis rather than a single statistic in making a point, is that Reagan’s economy improved over the following year.”
“Thus far there are no signs of similar improvement in Hope & Putt’s ™”
Maybe President Obama should use the Reagan strategy of raising taxes 11 times, then.
This, Dave, is the difference between mere analysis and analysis with *context.*
willie lynch
June 30th, 2011
12:18 pm
Joe Mama
June 30th, 2011
12:12 pm
Sound, logic seems to fall on deaf ears when partisan talking points are the only thing you seem to want to hear.
getalife
June 30th, 2011
12:18 pm
Dave,
“Ahhh. The typical liberal “we’re too stupid” argument.”
The argument is valid when cons will vote to end their own Medicare and SS.
Rewarding the gop for playing politics with a default with your vote adds to this argument.
Voting party over country seals the deal.
TruthBe
June 30th, 2011
12:18 pm
stands for decibels, Obama isn’t the GREAT President Ronald Reagan. Obama is a corrupt pay tp play liberal progressive Chicago thug union / community organizer racist muslim slime ball. ANYBODY in 2012 but obama.
Mighty Righty
June 30th, 2011
12:19 pm
Doggone/GA
June 30th, 2011
11:26 am
“employers don’t trust this administration”
That’s the excuse they use. The REASON is that they are sitting on record profits without having to hire. So why hire, especially since demand doesn’t force a need for more employees and they are STILL sitting on record profilts?
Where do liberals get the idean that a business is obligated to hire people? The ignorance of that thought cannot be comprehended.
Rich
June 30th, 2011
12:20 pm
Under Clinton, the republican congress provide budgets for Clinton to sign that showed spending less than revenue. Under Bush the big spending years there were deocratic congresses sending will with large deficit spending. Bush should have vetoed those bills. But Bush was not that conservative.
Dave R.
June 30th, 2011
12:20 pm
They need better cages at the Yerkes Primate Center.
Joe Cool~"PRESIDENT Obama" Tells Birthers,"Thanks For Playing BI+CHES"
June 30th, 2011
12:21 pm
“Liers figure anf figures lie”
Is that slang?
Left wing management
June 30th, 2011
12:21 pm
Rich: “Under Clinton, the republican congress provide budgets for Clinton to sign that showed spending less than revenue. Under Bush the big spending years there were deocratic congresses sending will with large deficit spending. Bush should have vetoed those bills. But Bush was not that conservative.”
Uh huh.
Say, what’s a “liberal”, Rich?
Adam
June 30th, 2011
12:21 pm
Common Sense: You made the claim. The burden of proof is yours. The claim I made in relation to yours was that it’s not true. Prove it. Tell me what time frame you think that there are more regulations, and what administrations added those regulations, and what those regulations were and why they stifle things. That’s really what I am asking for. If you want me to believe you you’re going to have to convince me you’re right, and I will need more than you have given.
RB from Gwinnett
June 30th, 2011
12:21 pm
Scott, you’re wasting your time debating with getaclue. You may as well discuss particle physics with a turtle. Waste of time. She actually thinks everything good on this planet is a result of Barak Obama and everything bad is an R’s fault. Pointless and clueless.
khc
June 30th, 2011
12:22 pm
ain’t it weird the party responsible for starting the current debt crisis takes a no holds barred position on negotiating a reasonable solution
getalife
June 30th, 2011
12:22 pm
I accept your surrender Dave.
Dave R.
June 30th, 2011
12:23 pm
“You may as well discuss particle physics with a turtle.”
OK, I don’t care who you are, that’s funny!
getalife
June 30th, 2011
12:23 pm
RB,
I bash both sides.
You know that.
Stop whining lil girl.
AmVet
June 30th, 2011
12:23 pm
Peter, LOL.
That $600 sure changed my life! Jeez, talk about pandering to the desperate…
And I agree with Scott. The Clinton “surplus” was just “creative accounting”, i.e. cooking the books to make them look good…
TruthBe
June 30th, 2011
12:23 pm
getaLife, You mean democrats don’t you because they are the ones that vote only party lines and skin color. 98% of all Black voters voted for Obama. All Democrat senators and congressmen have only voted yea for their party’s bills. They NEVER cross the party lines on major bills. So please get your head out of your ass and listen to the true facts.
Left wing management
June 30th, 2011
12:23 pm
TruthBe 12:05, I think there’s medication for that.
stands for decibels
June 30th, 2011
12:24 pm
ladies and germs, I give you…
corrupt pay tp play liberal progressive Chicago thug union / community organizer racist muslim slime ball.
the GOP base(st).
.
Adam
June 30th, 2011
12:24 pm
Rich: Under Bush spending went up immediately. This continued for the 6 years Republicans had control of both houses. If you can show me how Democrats CHANGED the trend in the final two years of Bush, rather than continued it, then I will buy into the idea that Democrats are worse spenders.
I really think the problem is that we started to get things under control, ideologues got control and reversed that, and then Washington got super-infected with the idea that we can’t solve this problem at all now.
Common Sense
June 30th, 2011
12:25 pm
@Willie,
if that is the best argument you can make, I suggest you go back to the drawing board.
It’s immoral to enslave someone and have them work for you.
Yet that is what the Federal Government does on behalf of 46.4% of the population.
No moral outrage there for some reason.
People do not live within their means. Don’t worry. We will bail you out.
Government does not operate within it’s means. Don’t worry. We will just keep spending and borrowing until we cannot. We do not need to change our behavior.
Because we do all of this because we care. Loans for college, bailouts for Chrysler and GM and Bank of America….
We care.
The bill is coming do for the We Care program. And now people do not like the totals they see.
If we just dealt with it we could move on to other things. But we would rather drag it out.
So here we are.
792 days without a budget.
Not one progressive here has come out and said how even this should have been handled differently.
Disgusted
June 30th, 2011
12:25 pm
Stocks in rally mode—CNN/Money
Yup, that uncertainty is a killer.
Rich
June 30th, 2011
12:26 pm
Left wing management – Bush was middle of the road. Obama is liberal. Go for Ron Paul if you really want conservative.
BADA BING
June 30th, 2011
12:26 pm
Uncle Jed….sorry to let you down on the ‘fingers’ thing, I was out in the garage working on my car. Thanks for thinking of me, Hey to Jethro!
williebkind
June 30th, 2011
12:26 pm
AmVet
June 30th, 2011
11:59 am
“Wiilie wants to ship out Those People to California, NY and Massatusetts not you’uns.”
Well, I see I must be more yankee in my words when talking to you. NO, I did not say we must or should ship out people to those states. I was inferring that if those states had the same populations on the dole as Georgia then the local governments would call on federal aid to subsidise the costs for the local taxpayers thus raising their levels of federal aid. You do live in your own world.
TruthBe
June 30th, 2011
12:26 pm
Liberal democrats are liars and have NO morals. And so do their voters.
AmVet
June 30th, 2011
12:26 pm
In spite of the Hollywood accolades, Ronald Reagan was most definitely NOT a great president.
His record of failures and successes is VERY mixed.
He was a middling president propped up by Madison Avenue PR gurus…
getalife
June 30th, 2011
12:26 pm
Speaking of turtles, mcconnell looks like a turtle.
He is talking to our President and that might end his career.
This is how pathetic gop politics is today.
La la land.
DBCOOPER
June 30th, 2011
12:27 pm
The fact that we are here today to debate raising America’s debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the U.S. Government can’t pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government’s reckless fiscal policies. … Increasing America’s debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that ‘the buck stops here. Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better.
Barak Obama
williebkind
June 30th, 2011
12:28 pm
josef
You hit the nail on the head. We are worlds apart in beliefs and mores however the truth is constant for everyone.
Brosephus
June 30th, 2011
12:28 pm
98% of all Black voters voted for Obama.
And to think, it was only 95% at the time of the election.
khc
June 30th, 2011
12:29 pm
truthbe needs to change his moniker
bobfromacworth
June 30th, 2011
12:29 pm
Lies, Damn Lies and Statistics, I tell ya!
Paulo977
June 30th, 2011
12:29 pm
Clinton says
“http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/bill-clinton-exclusive-proposes-debt-impasse-deal-fears/story?id=13963218
TruthBe
June 30th, 2011
12:30 pm
stands for decibels and left wing management, Both of you are so lost. You should stop drinking the obamajuice and eating the government cheese.
Mighty Righty
June 30th, 2011
12:31 pm
Logical Dude
June 30th, 2011
12:01 pm
Mighty Righty: 11:04: If our credit rating is shot and we can’t borrow money, Hoorah!
Umm, you DO realize this would cause Global chaos and meltdown, right?
::eyeroll::
Please explain how the U.S. not borrowing money will cause Global chaos and meltdown. I can hardly wait to hear your explanation.
Rich
June 30th, 2011
12:31 pm
Adam, in there early Bush year it went up at about 5% later it went up at 8 and 9%.
David
June 30th, 2011
12:31 pm
OK, enough doom and gloom and sarcasm. We can’t default, to much at risk. But why is it the fault of those who oppose more debt, instead of those who insist on spending more than we have? If this is what it takes to get a serious commitment to stop overspending the federal budget, then this is what it takes. Both sides know that revenues have to increase, but if they are increased enough to balance the budget the economy will be crippled. There have to be cuts to go along with those increases. At least the debt ceiling is forcing a conversation. For too long this has been an automatic pass.
williebkind
June 30th, 2011
12:31 pm
The Florida governor is doing his part to bring the budgets under control. He just signed a new legislation for the Florida Workforce Innovation that will save millions each year. Have not heard much from other states yet!
RB from Gwinnett
June 30th, 2011
12:32 pm
“792 days without a budget.”
Can any of you liberals explain how that equates to leadership in any way, shape, or form? Especially when you realize they had completed control of all 3 branches of govt. until January of this year?
Do you even care or is the (D) after their name all that matters?
TruthBe
June 30th, 2011
12:32 pm
Brosephus You forgot to count you corrupt black ass. And khc the truth will set you free.
josef
June 30th, 2011
12:32 pm
Brosephus
@ 12:28
getalife
June 30th, 2011
12:34 pm
David,
No, that is what the budget debate is for.
New to politics?
AmVet
June 30th, 2011
12:34 pm
willie, spin away, but your own words damn you:
We can send all the minorities to their state and let them feed, cloth (sic), and house them instead?
You are just one of several far right wingers here who are obsessed with the failings of minorities. Until I read where you excoriate whites with the same constancy and vigor, I am not fooled.
A great minority American, quoting another great member of a minority once said, ““Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free.”
Joe Mama
June 30th, 2011
12:35 pm
Scott — “Joe mama… “And yet Clinton left office with notable budget surpluses,” Prove it.”
Not a problem. Start here. You may want to put on your thinking cap and your reading glasses, because there’s homework involved.
http://www.cbo.gov/doc.cfm?index=2&type=0&sequence=5
“This is quite possibly one of the biggest lies you libs continue to repeat over and over again.”
It’s right there in black and white, Scott.
“He did not leave us with a surplus at all. He stole from Social Security to make the impression of a surplus. Ever heard of intergovernmental transfer. I am so sick of hearing that stupid lie told over and over and over again.”
Facts — they’re like Black Flag bug spray to cons.
getalife
June 30th, 2011
12:36 pm
Pelosi and our President presented budgets that are doa in corrupt congress RB.
What else you got?
Brosephus
June 30th, 2011
12:36 pm
TruthBe
You need to first learn how to use English correctly if you wish to engage me with your ungamely debate. Second, you have no clue who I voted for, so to suggest such shows how much of a dumbass you really are. If I were you, I’d quit with the personal insults before Jay gives you the Bobby Cox treatment. And quit looking at my ass…..
Rich
June 30th, 2011
12:37 pm
We should create a fund that everyone who thinks we should have higher taxes can contribute. I know PA tried it and receive less than $100,000, but if we could collect a small amount from all those who say they want higher taxes, we should be able to balance the budget. If not we cut spending. My guess is those who want higher taxes, want others to pay it.
Doggone/GA
June 30th, 2011
12:37 pm
“Can any of you liberals explain how that equates to leadership in any way”
Well, as I see it, all of you “it’s a spending problem” should be HAPPY there’s been no budget voted on. No budget means no new spending. It means we have to work within the confines of temporary funding bills, which can only continue spending at current levels. Sounds like a win-win to me.
Joe Mama
June 30th, 2011
12:37 pm
Willie Lynch — “Sound, logic seems to fall on deaf ears when partisan talking points are the only thing you seem to want to hear.”
I’m open to sound logic if any is offered. Unfortunately, talking points from *both* sides seem to be in all-too-generous supply.
WOODSTOCK MIKE
June 30th, 2011
12:38 pm
@Joe Mama
Do you agree that both GDP and federal tax revenues both increased almost every year under George Bush? And did you mention debt levels under Bush in your comments? Because we now carry more debt then ever and the projections for the next several years are astonishing…
Left wing management
June 30th, 2011
12:39 pm
Rich: “Bush was middle of the road. Obama is liberal. Go for Ron Paul if you really want conservative.”
No, Ron Paul is the most liberal of them all. Hence, libertarian. See?
See this is the proof of just how out of whack the American political lexicon.
getalife
June 30th, 2011
12:39 pm
When facts are ignored there is no honest debate.
Joe Mama
June 30th, 2011
12:39 pm
Righty — “Where do liberals get the idean that a business is obligated to hire people? The ignorance of that thought cannot be comprehended.”
Where do conservatives get the idea that society must coddle businesses and give them all sorts of gifts and emoluments when businesses won’t put more members of their host society to work?
Baby Suggs
June 30th, 2011
12:41 pm
ty webb @9:31: Increasing America’s debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that “the buck stops here.” Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better.”
Just curious but, where WERE YOU when that very same argument was mentioned during the Dark Years? (Bush/Cheney). I mean were you this upset when Bush took another big loan from China so that he could finance another war in the Middle East? Were you this upset when Cheney said that “deficits don’t matter” or were you giving the “thattaboy” pat on the back for his “insight” into the American economy? Where were you when Moderates and Dems were yelling about this very same issue just 4 short years ago? Did you just wake up from out of hte twilight zone or something?
Rich
June 30th, 2011
12:41 pm
Left Wing Management – Liberal and Libertian are not equal.
Joe Mama
June 30th, 2011
12:41 pm
TruthBe — “Liberal democrats are liars and have NO morals. And so do their voters.”
Dude, get your money back for that Dale Carnegie course you took, because it clearly didn’t take.
Alabama Communist
June 30th, 2011
12:42 pm
It is suicidal madness to even contemplate such a step* Jay
Right! That means you will have to charge your children future on a private Mastercard funded by Goldman Sachs..Have you consider a job as a funeral director for the Banks?
Granny Godzilla
June 30th, 2011
12:42 pm
Rich
and my guess is that those who want lower taxes are afraid of putting their butts on the line.
don’t want to pay higher taxes, dont. then take personal responsibility
for those actions
like the REAL Tea Party.
unless of course you are afraid to….
AmVet
June 30th, 2011
12:43 pm
Friends, Romans and countrymen, don’t feed the Truthfree troll…
TruthBe
June 30th, 2011
12:44 pm
Brosephus, Why? You can’t handle the truth? As for telling Jay on me so what, can’t defend you lies. You have made many personal attacks on many different bloggers including me.
RB from Gwinnett
June 30th, 2011
12:44 pm
“Pelosi and our President presented budgets that are doa in corrupt congress RB”
Pelosi, Reid, and Obama didn’t pass a budget WHEN THEY HAD COMPLETE CONTROL and a near super majority you moron. Only a complete effing idiot could blame that on R’s.
Joe Mama
June 30th, 2011
12:44 pm
Mike — “Do you agree that both GDP and federal tax revenues both increased almost every year under George Bush?”
Do you agree that deficit spending *also* increased under President Bush and that he ran the wars off-budget (using “emergency” supplemental spending measures to pay for them each year)?
“And did you mention debt levels under Bush in your comments? Because we now carry more debt then ever and the projections for the next several years are astonishing…”
I’d be more than happy to show you the debt numbers for Clinton, Bush and Obama. You might be surprised at how close Bush’s and Obama’s deficit spending habits actually are.
josef
June 30th, 2011
12:45 pm
BROSEPHUS
Don’t let TruthBe get under your skin too much. He’s just in the same minstrel show as Redneck from what I can gather…
BADA BING
June 30th, 2011
12:45 pm
Why don’t we borrow as much money as we can from China, and then don’t return their calls? It has worked for the dozens of people that owe me money.
Misty Fyed
June 30th, 2011
12:46 pm
Washington Post defines the debt ceiling as The legal limit on borrowing by the federal government. A legally determined limit on how much politicians can borrow. It has been raised over 100 times since initially enacted. In 1980, it was $1 trillion. It rose to $6 trillion in the 90s. Under GW the debt increased $4.36 trillion in 8 years. Under Obama its risen $3.9 trillion in 3 years.
Jay’s partially right in declaring madness. The only true madness is how many of you want to authorize these politicians to borrow even more money without any true effort to change spending habits.
TruthBe
June 30th, 2011
12:46 pm
AmVet, wasn’t speaking to you. Have Fun.
Uncle Jed
June 30th, 2011
12:47 pm
BADA BING
June 30th, 2011
12:26 pm
Yugo?
Bodine waved as his mouth was full.
Recon (2nd.and 3rd.)
June 30th, 2011
12:47 pm
The lib’s are utterly mad about Obama.
Our clueless President
June 30th, 2011
12:47 pm
WHERE YOU GUYS BEEN? I’VE BEEN ON THE GOLF COURSE WAITING FOR YOU CONGRESSMEN TO DO SOMETHING! I COULD HAVE STEPPED UP AND BEEN A LEADER BUT MY POLICIES ARE NOT WORKING AND NEVER WILL…. BUT MY PLAN AS BEING THE GRAND CZAR LOOK GOOD!
AmVet
June 30th, 2011
12:47 pm
Looks like RB is about to blow.
http://tinyurl.com/3cgpkba
willie lynch
June 30th, 2011
12:49 pm
Common Sense
June 30th, 2011
12:25 pm
Well, where to start? From what I’ve experienced the loans I had for my education were by no means free and paying them off was a part of the deal. The loans provided to Chrysler and GM were loans which by definition means they were to be paid back. But let’s remember the loans to these companies and the banks were for bad practices not by the government but by private business.
So we should have let Chysler, GM, BofA, and the countless other businesses related to their industries go under? That’s like the “we won’t raise the debt ceiling” argument, it’s not reasonable to the rational mind.
America takes care of Americans. If you don’t like that system…
AmVet
June 30th, 2011
12:50 pm
No worries. As you’re not a friend, Roman or countryman, neither was I.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npqzBtJ2Gco
Doggone/GA
June 30th, 2011
12:50 pm
“AmVet, wasn’t speaking to you. Have Fun”
This is an open forum. Like it or not, you are speaking to everyone here.
BADA BING
June 30th, 2011
12:50 pm
josef, maybe you have read it, but Fujimora’s daughter came within a RCH of winning in Peru. She was beaten by a man who took the indigious vote. I will see how it affects the country on my annual OCT trip.
Left wing management
June 30th, 2011
12:50 pm
Rich: “Liberal and Libertian are not equal.”
Libertarianism is a type of purified liberalism.
Brosephus
June 30th, 2011
12:51 pm
TruthBe
I respond in like kind. You have nary a clue about me, yet earlier you said something about my corrupt black ass. Can you prove that to be true, or is that yet more word vomit from someone who adds almost nothing substantive to the debate here? I don’t tell Jay anything. Jay reads the blog on his own. I could care less what he does to you. You’ll never hear me say that I haven’t made personal attacks here, and I’ve even had posts yanked by Jay. Some I requested be removed, and other’s he’s done on his own. I don’t claim to be perfect, and unlike you, I don’t claim to know things about people who I don’t know sh*t about.
Now, if you consider that a personal attack, I’m guilty. If you consider that a lie, I’m guilty. Otherwise, don’t come at me with that half-baked, assinine crap you spew at others. I don’t cower from anybody, and I can throw that sh*t right back at you.