The utter madness of not raising the debt ceiling
The United States would immediately have its top-notch credit rating slashed to “selective default” if it misses a debt payment on Aug. 4, Standard & Poor’s managing director John Chambers told Reuters.
Chambers, who is also the chairman of S&P’s sovereign ratings committee, told Reuters on Tuesday that U.S. Treasury bills maturing on Aug. 4 would be rated ‘D’ if the government fails to honor them. Unaffected Treasuries would be downgraded as well, but not as sharply, he said.
“If the U.S. government misses a payment, it goes to D,” Chambers said.
“The full consequence of a default — or even the serious prospect of default — by the United States are impossible to predict and awesome to contemplate. Denigration of the full faith and credit of the United States would have substantial effects on the domestic financial markets and on the value of the dollar in exchange markets. The nation can ill afford to allow such a result. The risks, the costs, the disruptions, and the incalculable damage lead me to but one conclusion: the Senate must pass the legislation before the Congress adjourns.”
Social Security benefits could be among the first casualties if President Obama and Congress can’t agree to increase the government’s debt limit on Aug. 2, a new analysis shows.
The Bipartisan Policy Center studied Treasury Department receipts and expenditures for August 2009 and 2010 and determined that the government likely would not have enough revenue to pay the full $23 billion payment to Social Security recipients due on Aug. 3.
On that day, according to the analysis, the government would take in about $12 billion in taxes and other revenue but would owe $32 billion, creating a $20 billion shortfall….
“We should be honest with ourselves what this would be like, and the answer is it would be chaotic,” said Jerome Powell, a former Treasury official in the first Bush administration. “There is no way to avoid really serious pain.”
From the Bipartisan Policy Center, documenting what the federal government could and could not continue to pay for once the debt ceiling is hit and the government is prohibited from borrowing additional funds:
Everything above the red line could theoretically be financed, although in practice that would be very difficult because inflows and outflows are so “lumpy,” BPC analysts conclude. (In addition, this is what a “balanced budget” would look like absent additional revenue. To preserve those things above the red line, every expenditure below the red line would have to end.)
In other words, we could continue to pay off bondholders such as China for a few weeks. They could, theoretically, still get paid. But we couldn’t pay our own soldiers. No government salaries would be paid at all, including for those employees who would supposedly be sending out the checks to China and elsewhere.
It is suicidal madness to even contemplate such a step.
– Jay Bookman
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842 comments Add your comment
1811/1801 - 0311/0317
June 30th, 2011
10:36 am
COMING TO A THEATER NEAR YOU !
UK GOES ON STRIKE…
Unions demand more taxpayer money…
Schools closed, flights delayed…
Riot police brace for violence…
Doggone/GA
June 30th, 2011
10:36 am
“Now Now, JB might simply be referring to the Hedge Fund Manager class, in which case I must agree with him”
But even THEY don’t pay NO taxes!
Adam
June 30th, 2011
10:36 am
retired early: along with eliminating the “corporate wealth fare” tax credits
Yeah right. If the Bush tax cuts had expired the conversation we would be having is whether or not to cut TAXES, not whether or not to cut SPENDING.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
June 30th, 2011
10:36 am
Adam, absolutely. If a starvation diet does not work, we can go to no food at all. But let’s be clear…under NO circumstances do we consider more exercise because that will mean that we’ll just eat more. We are go to stick to this cutting food thing ONLY until it works.
The Gipper
June 30th, 2011
10:37 am
I see a tax hike coming in 2012.
Fletch
June 30th, 2011
10:37 am
We don’t need to raise the debt ceiling, we just need to lower peoples expectations. When was the last time you heard about China having a “debt ceiling” problem?
ty webb
June 30th, 2011
10:38 am
A “surplus” is a revenue problem. A “defecit” is a spending problem.
Brosephus
June 30th, 2011
10:38 am
UJ
What I’m suggesting is that the border states could get together to implement some kind of program specific to their areas that would benefit them in the short term. Once the level of security is reached, then Congress can enact legislation to deal with the immigration issues already here. Allow the states to generate revenue for their program through means in their states. The rest of the states can contribute more to pay for more BP Agents or better equipment.
Personally, I don’t think we’d be able to secure the borders the way people are demanding we do without a loss of civil liberties and/or freedom to move people and goods in and out of this country. I think we’d do unimaginable damage to our economy as well.
The Gipper
June 30th, 2011
10:38 am
1811,
Can I count on you to protect me.
El Jefe
June 30th, 2011
10:39 am
Granny Godzilla,
Let me get this straight -
If I work hard and make a lot of money, I am evil.
If I work hard and start a business that grows, I am evil.
If I use a tax break from Obama, (Corporate aircraft) I am evil.
So, why would I work?
Adam
June 30th, 2011
10:40 am
ty: No a surplus is a revenue bonus, not a revenue PROBLEM. That’s stupid.
BTW to everyone who thinks the debt ceiling should not be raised until we get spending under control: Where were you the total of NINETEEN TIMES your GOP lovelies VOTED to raise it since 2000?
stands for decibels
June 30th, 2011
10:40 am
Standard & Poor’s managing director John Chambers told Reuters.
wait a sec, this is S&P telling us this?
Just tell them our Big Sh-tPile is based on AAA rated mortgages. honest.
They’ll come around. Problem solved. We don’t need no stinkin rotten debt ceiling. Just make the pi[l]e higher.
Common Cents
June 30th, 2011
10:40 am
Here we have a problem decades in the making, and the Tea Party ilk want to force the (Democrat-led) federal government to fix the problem overnight.
I think a rational, measured, incremental approach would suit the purpose just fine. How convenient that the same folks who covered their ears and sang aloud when the cost of wars and tax cuts were discussed from 2001-2008 suddenly emerged from their self-imposed financial restraint coma to blame the Kenyan socialist for all that ails us.
JB
June 30th, 2011
10:41 am
OSHA fines just doubled under Obama.I know first hand………Really helping business. first increase in 20 years ” to be fair”……….but doubled?
Fletch
June 30th, 2011
10:41 am
El Jefe – “So, why would I work?”
I would assume, like the majority of us because you have goals and aspirations that go beyond public housing and food stamps. However, if that’s the life you want, you are free to pursue it. That’s the beauty of America.
Atlas Shrugging
June 30th, 2011
10:41 am
El Jefe
The simple answer is Granny wants you to work, eveil person that you are, so she can get a free ride.
Joe Mama
June 30th, 2011
10:41 am
1811 — “Headline: “The U.S. has decided to formally resume contact with Egypt’s Muslim Brotherhood group”
I don’t see the problem with *talking* to them. Fercryinoutloud, we’ve been talking to the TALIBAN.
Every war or conflict we’ve ever been in has ended (with the exception of the Korean War) with us TALKING to our opponent and bringing an end to hostilities. And we’re still talking to the North Koreans.
stands for decibels
June 30th, 2011
10:41 am
If I work hard and make a lot of money, I am evil.
no. But you are fairly idiotic for imagining anyone actually thinks such a thing.
and I don’t really think you are, or do.
Come on. this “they’re gonna Go Galt if we don’t kiss their befouled arses relentlessly” meme is beyond stupid.
Adam
June 30th, 2011
10:41 am
El Jefe: Who said anything about evil?
Whaheema
June 30th, 2011
10:41 am
The real Madness to not get spending under control. The debt ceiling is the only hammer big enough to rein in the democrat craziness. Democrats just want more “investment” of money we don’t have and don’t need to spend.
Jay is just an attack dog for the left. He has long since stopped having anything real to say unless it’s Friday night.
Peadawg
June 30th, 2011
10:42 am
“BTW to everyone who thinks the debt ceiling should not be raised until we get spending under control: Where were you the total of NINETEEN TIMES your GOP lovelies VOTED to raise it since 2000?”
Good question. Same could be asked of Obama since he voted against it in 2006. I don’t remember all the fear mongering coming from him back then either.
Common Sense
June 30th, 2011
10:42 am
Such a small percentage of bonds due would be technically in default. But it would not be the end of the world.
And Bookman fails to mention the largest holders of the debt, people and businesses in the US. Why is that?
No budget in years. No fiscal discipline at all in Washington.
It’s time for the party to come to an end.
You really cannot have it all.
And the damage to the economy? It’s already been done. You just don’t see it.
ty webb
June 30th, 2011
10:43 am
Adam,
“Stupid is as stupid does”, and you “does” quite frequently. A surplus is not a “bonus”. It simply means that the government took more than they “needed”. A defecit simply means the government spent more than they had.
Gordon
June 30th, 2011
10:43 am
LWM@10:33,
In the fiscal sense, a liberal is someone who believes government should have a much more active role in citizens’ lives than a conservative. Higher taxes, higher spending.
The surplus you refer to happened under a Democratic president with a Republican Congress who worked well together for the most part, and was mainly the result of an expansion in the economy due to the dot com boom, along with it being relatively peaceful time in our history.
In reality, there was no surplus because the government was not (and is not) accounting for the liabilities being accrued for entitlements.
Joe Mama
June 30th, 2011
10:43 am
GG — “Bottom line, working Americans need rich people,and rich people need working Americans just as much and are both better off when they all get richer.”
Post of the Day.
Adam
June 30th, 2011
10:44 am
Peadawg: Good question. Same could be asked of Obama since he voted against it in 2006. I don’t remember all the fear mongering coming from him back then either.
So 1 = 19 now? Maybe in base 19?
Doggone/GA
June 30th, 2011
10:44 am
“Good question. Same could be asked of Obama since he voted against it in 2006. I don’t remember all the fear mongering coming from him back then either”
I see that the concept of a symbolic vote still escapes you.
Brosephus
June 30th, 2011
10:44 am
Scout @ 10:35
Are you saying that a natural born USC can not be President??? According to Fox News….
The panel clashed with Republican lawmakers in front of a room Democrats packed with hundreds of young adults who themselves suggested they were not in the country legally.
“Let me ask everyone here today who is a DREAM Act student to stand and be recognized,” said Sen. Dick Durbin (D. -Ill), the bill’s sponsor.
Nearly everyone in the room stood up. HUMNAN EVENTS contacted Durbin’s press office after the hearing to ask if those in the audience Durbin recognized were in the country illegally, and are still awaiting a response.
Read more: http://nation.foxnews.com/dream-act/2011/06/28/did-democrats-stack-senate-hearing-illegals#ixzz1Qlpywk4T
Seems like there were a few in the room who would still qualify to be POTUS. Some people try to make Mt. Vesuvius from a red ant hill in their backyards. Simply stupefying!!!
El Jefe
June 30th, 2011
10:44 am
Evil is what the President was all about in his speech. Greedy CEO’s, greedy Oil Companies, etc.
I would not be surprised if in the near future, wealth and income will be taxed.
Common Sense
June 30th, 2011
10:44 am
@peadawg,
Where were you the total of NINETEEN TIMES your GOP lovelies VOTED to raise it since 2000?”
That’s such a useless argument. Using it, there would never be a reason NOT to increase the debt limit.
It’s like saying we did it before, so we’ll do it forever.
No more. We have had enough.
Halftrack
June 30th, 2011
10:45 am
We know the things that Obummer is trying doesn’t work. How long we gonna keep at this losing pace until somebody decides that another approach is necessary? Or forgets about themselves and saves the Country. It only takes one to get a fire going.
Peadawg
June 30th, 2011
10:45 am
Common Sense,
I didn’t ask that question. I was responding to the person who did.
Adam
June 30th, 2011
10:46 am
ty: It simply means that the government took more than they “needed”
And therefore we should CUT TAXES!
Sorry, not buying it. A surplus in a yearly budget means more money can be put towards reducing the rolling deficit. It is a BONUS in that respect. The money is still NEEDED. Plus, if you want to make war at random intervals, you’re going to need to stop throwing that onto the deficit. If we had a rolling surplus instead of a rolling deficit, then you could use that money to effectively wage combat operations as needed, instead of borrowing from other countries or private banks to do it.
Fletch
June 30th, 2011
10:47 am
Common Sense – “It’s time for the party to come to an end.”
TRAITOR! That’s not the America I grew up in, that’s not the American way! How dare you stain this great country with your innuendo of responsibiltity and accountability . We’re Americans, it’s our God given right to get it all and get it now!! Take your socialy correct attitude along with your moral compass and get the hell out! (Sarcasm Intended):)
Adam
June 30th, 2011
10:47 am
ty: Or, to put it another way, if a natural disaster strikes no one will be complaining about where the money will come from to take care of it.
WOODSTOCK MIKE
June 30th, 2011
10:47 am
@Adam
You mentioned payroll taxes earlier in one of your posts, who do you think pays those? Where do you think that money comes from?
Jimmy62
June 30th, 2011
10:48 am
Stands: People are already going Galt, you just don’t want to see. People are fleeing high-tax states like New York and California for lower tax (and more business friendly) states like taxes. Doctors are retiring early or refusing to take medicare patients because it’s both a pain in the butt and often results in them losing money, and just wait till Obamacare comes in to full effect. We’re going to have a real hard time keeping enough doctors working, and a hard time convincing people to go to med school and gather hundreds of thousands of dollars of student loan debt only to get to the real world and be unable to make even close to enough money to make it worth it. And that’s just medicine. The way the government is making decisions these days, I expect the only professionals who will expand in numbers are lawyers, and they don’t really produce anything, just leach off other peoples’ problems and triumphs. But the people who do produce? Going Galt, not a huge numbers, but it’s creeping up. But I’m sure you will keep your eyes closed and act like paying people less won’t affect their desire to work.
El Jefe
June 30th, 2011
10:48 am
Common Sense,
The big red flag on Debt Ceiling, is when our debt ceiling is greater than our GDP. Imagine that you owed more in credit card debt than you make in a year – oh, wait – those are college students going to school using federal funds – we are paying for little johnny to attend college and binge drink. – just like Congress.
stands for decibels
June 30th, 2011
10:48 am
No more. We have had enough.
…of a man with mildly center-left political views (if you squint hard) in the White House.
We know, we know.
Common Sense
June 30th, 2011
10:49 am
Sorry Peadawg
Adam
June 30th, 2011
10:49 am
Common Sense: That’s such a useless argument. Using it, there would never be a reason NOT to increase the debt limit.
It’s like saying we did it before, so we’ll do it forever.
No more. We have had enough.
How about this: Once you prove you can deal with a budget effectively by increasing revenues RESPONSIBLY, and decreasing spending RESPONSIBLY (at the same time), put your vote where your mouth is and vote to LOWER the debt ceiling as the debt starts to go down.
mm
June 30th, 2011
10:49 am
“had Obama not caved on the “Bush tax cuts” to appease the GOP”
Unfortunately, he gave away 2 years of the tax cuts for 1 year of unemployment. He got schooled.
JB
June 30th, 2011
10:50 am
Obama is pretty much a loser. Nice guy, nice family, but over his head with this job. All presidents have agendas, his is just overly obvious, and the people around him other than Gates and The guy at the CIA are utterly clueless.
WOODSTOCK MIKE
June 30th, 2011
10:51 am
Yeah, that’s the GOP strategy going into the 2012 elections, cause the US to default leading to another financial collapse, you guys shouldn’t believe everything you read and hear on TV…
There isn’t a snowballs chance in hell that the US will default, this is all political grandstanding, I bet the deal is just about wrapped up…
Adam
June 30th, 2011
10:51 am
WOODSTOCK MIKE: You mentioned payroll taxes earlier in one of your posts, who do you think pays those? Where do you think that money comes from?
Mostly it comes from lower to middle class workers, who do not reach the cap of $106k on SS in their entire lifetimes. This statistic can also be found in the same post of Jay’s I mentioned.
Uncle Jed
June 30th, 2011
10:51 am
Bro: “What I’m suggesting is that the border states could get together to implement some kind of program specific to their areas that would benefit them in the short term.”
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I get your point my friend, but I think the feds would challenge any effort undertaken by a state. I think they are in the process of doing just that as I write. I hate to say it but I believe politicians on all sides of all aisles have a use for the unlawful entrants into our nation…thier potential vote.
++++++++++
Out for now.
mm
June 30th, 2011
10:51 am
Based on the stupid comments from the righties, Fox News and Rushbo should be shut down.
There’s a big difference between opinions and facts.
Thomas
June 30th, 2011
10:53 am
“Americans are becoming complacent about the Year 2000 issue”
CNN headling about Y2k.
come out from under your beds- it will be ok.
How about a tax break for US citizens and US institutions to own their own US debt and f*ck the Chinese and Russians. You libs complain about all the hoarding of cash by US companies- there is your solution.
getalife
June 30th, 2011
10:53 am
Instead of cutting and running from the gop debts, lets end the gop party today before they do any more damage to our country.
Adam
June 30th, 2011
10:54 am
WOODSTOCK MIKE: There isn’t a snowballs chance in hell that the US will default, this is all political grandstanding, I bet the deal is just about wrapped up…
I’m placing my bet there also. The GOP knows the first to get hit hard by a default will be Wall Street, their buddies. They won’t let it happen. As long as the Democrats don’t cave on the grandstanding, they will have no choice but to raise the debt limit.
Why have a debt limit?
June 30th, 2011
10:54 am
Why have a debt limit? Every time we get close to it we just raise it. Why don’t we just print as much money as we need, we do not need a debt limit as long as we can print money. We do not have the restraints that Greece has by being part of the EU.
Left wing management
June 30th, 2011
10:54 am
Common Sense: “And Bookman fails to mention the largest holders of the debt, people and businesses in the US. Why is that?”
This is why we’re in BIG trouble, this mentality here.
It doesn’t matter who the holders of the debt are nominally, Common. The damage that will be done will bear on potential FUTURE lenders and that damage will be reflected in a sharp rise in interest rates/cost of borrowing. It’s about the confidence of the markets in our creditworthiness.
Brosephus
June 30th, 2011
10:55 am
UJ
I think the feds would challenge any effort undertaken by a state.
Not if the states worked in conjunction with the feds to undertake such a task. So far, everything has been states knee jerking and the feds responding in like fashion. Instead of attacking each other as adversaries, they need to work together as one.
Common Sense
June 30th, 2011
10:55 am
El Jefe,
We have seen it coming for years. We have ignored the warnings.
We could grow our economy faster than the debt. But this administration and others have strangled American innovation with regulations. So that possibility has been eliminated.
The majority of the things that constitute economic engines in our nation could not even be started today.
Airports, power plants, property development(the list is endless). You cannot start one from scratch today without years of red tape.
Even something as simple as a rail line to Alpharetta will take decades. Widen a lane on a road? Years.
We have lost the edge that was once America.
Progressives have halted progress in America, then wonder why the economic growth has failed to materialize.
Fletch
June 30th, 2011
10:55 am
JB – “the people around him other than Gates and The guy at the CIA are utterly clueless.”
Were you referring to Robert Gates as quoted below?
“I worked for a lot of these guys and this is one of the most courageous calls — decisions — that I think I’ve ever seen a president make.”
Adam
June 30th, 2011
10:56 am
Common Sense: But this administration and others have strangled American innovation with regulations.
Not Intended to be a Factual Statement.
Brosephus
June 30th, 2011
10:57 am
Adam @ 10:54
Wall Street’s buddies with all of them.
Just sayin’….
Common Sense
June 30th, 2011
10:57 am
Left Wing,
if it doesn’t matter, then why is it that China is always mentioned and Americans are not?
Interest rates? Have they not been controlled by the Federal Reserve? Have we not had below market rates for the last five years?
It’s time to get this house in order.
So deal with it. Because it is coming.
Adam
June 30th, 2011
10:58 am
Brosephus: Ok so Democrats are gonna get the donations now since they are the ones behind raising the ebt ceiling all along?
Left wing management
June 30th, 2011
10:58 am
Woodstock Mike: “There isn’t a snowballs chance in hell that the US will default, this is all political grandstanding, I bet the deal is just about wrapped up…”
You apparently haven’t studied your history real closely, Mike. At certain points in a decision process, a collective logic takes over, from which point on things follow their own logic. But I know you conservatives never were much on the ‘collective’ aspect of things …
All I’m saying is, if you think there’s no chance we’ll default, you are truly naive.
josef
June 30th, 2011
10:58 am
Let me see…I’ve maxed a credit card. Unmentionable is p&ssed. Can I just tell him it was (a) the Democrats’ fault, (b) Obama’s fault, (c) the Republicans’ fault, (d) Bush’s fault? I mean, if he can get the limit raised, then there’s no problem so what’s he getting in such a dither about? Send the minimum payment and shut the f up…right? And what does he mean, give me that card and a pair of scissors…spoil sport….
Common Sense
June 30th, 2011
10:59 am
Adam,
It is indeed factual. Ignorance of the facts is no excuse.
JB
June 30th, 2011
11:01 am
Don’t Forget the matching employers do on taxes…unfortunately under Obama, there are millions less employee’s to match……….In fact it’s worse, they have ended up on Government entitlements.
khc
June 30th, 2011
11:02 am
repubs need to take the stick out their bum and if dems come across with big time spending cuts, then revenue increases by closing loopholes and special interest subsidies are in order. it would not hurt my feelings if they taxed the beejeebus out of wall st and hedge fund racqueteers
AmVet
June 30th, 2011
11:03 am
If I could do so legally, I would get a cease and desist order on the use of the word evil.
The only thing evil is how that word is so idiotically used here.
Please, lets move up to ninth grade adjectives, shall we?
And can’t we get back to old school Republispeak like moral equivalency, surrender monkeys and Mission Accomplished?
Thank you…
JB
June 30th, 2011
11:03 am
Read it again Fletch….I LIKE GATES
Fletch
June 30th, 2011
11:03 am
JB – “Don’t Forget the matching employers do on taxes…unfortunately under Obama, there are millions less employee’s to match”
You’re right, so why aren’t these employers putting people back to work instead of sitting on record profits?
Oh wait, maybe it’s that old Supply and Demand concept.
Mighty Righty
June 30th, 2011
11:04 am
Horror of horrors, the Federal Government will have to live within its means. If our credit rating is shot and we can’t borrow money, Hoorah! Like drug addicts, our president and representives will not curb their addiction to spending unless forced to.
Paul Krugman, who the looneys like to quote, said yesterday if the government eliminated the tax breaks allowed “big oil” and eliminated the “corporate jets” write off, the additional revenue to the federal government over the next 100 years, would be less than Obama spent in February! That is why a tax increase to reduce the deficit is simply silly. We have to cut spending. If that means closing the Department of Education, so be it. We cannot tax our way out of the mess Obama has put us in. We must cut spending by 1.5 trillion dollars per year just to stay even!
Left wing management
June 30th, 2011
11:04 am
Common sense: “Interest rates? Have they not been controlled by the Federal Reserve? Have we not had below market rates for the last five years?”
No. The interest rate in question is determined by the MARKETS, i.e. market confidence in the credit worthiness of the borrower. Given the side you’re on, I’d expect you to be real keen on the logic of how markets work.
“It’s time to get this house in order.”
If you’re truly serious about ‘getting our house in order’ in terms of budget, then let’s allow tax rates to return to Reagan-era rates (in other words allow the Bush cuts to expire across the board, on all brackets). Done.
getalife
June 30th, 2011
11:04 am
Yeah, Wall Street and the coc are silent so they can’t use the uncertainty argument anymore.
The uncertainty alone should be an argument but corporate media are giving the gop a free pass as usual.
Tom B
June 30th, 2011
11:05 am
The government fails and the people pay. Time to do the “Ultimate Makeover” in DC!
Dave R.
June 30th, 2011
11:06 am
Despite all the hand wringing and faux poutrage from the left (and Jay, you’re included), THIS is what is going to happen:
A deal will be struck that cuts $1.8 trillion from various sources over the next 10 years.
They will be REAL cuts, not the accounting tricks put over on the GOP in the last round of cuts.
Tax loopholes and certain subsidies will be closed / phased out to provide increased revenues.
No tax rate increases will be included.
The debt ceiling will be raised by $1.2 trillion.
The GOP-led House will vote on this and pass it despite any firm agreement from the administration, and will let the Democrat-led Senate take the hit if it doesn’t get passed there.
Now, for those of you who like to stalk other posters, please save this particular post so that you can see how accurate / inaccurate this prediction will be come August 4th.
So let it be written; so let it be done.
P.S. Hope & Putt ™ will play another 4 rounds of golf and attend 5 fundraisers during this time, all the while chastising Congress for not working harder, further cementing his legacy of being the least qualified person to ever be elected to the office of President.
Jimmy62
June 30th, 2011
11:06 am
Another point to mention… The Dems had full control of Congress for two full years, and if they wanted to do something there was nothing the GOP could do to stop them. But instead of passing a budget, instead of pulling out of a war they said they didn’t like, and instead of looking to make some serious cuts to things we don’t have money for… They broke their own laws by not passing a budget. The primary thing they are supposed to do, and they couldn’t do it when they had full control. So you can blame things on the GOP all you want, but that ignores the fact that the Dems had two full years in which they could do anything they wanted, and they did nothing but spend more and more money.
When they couldn’t pass a budget for two years, they lost any moral authority they might have had on the issue, and that’s why the problems we have now are on them. Because they didn’t do anything about it when they had the chance.
Fletch
June 30th, 2011
11:06 am
JB – “Read it again Fletch….I LIKE GATES”
I did read it, if you have so much respect for Gates, then you need to change the rest of your post referring to the president as an over his head loser. BTW, I’m not an Obama supporter, I just can’t stand partisan crap.
WOODSTOCK MIKE
June 30th, 2011
11:06 am
@Left Wing Management
Thank you for your typical liberal insults. I forgot, you are an economic genius. I guess your money is on the US defaulting, we will see how it shapes out. Thanks again for your childish insults. It’s my opinion that the US will not default, is that alright with you or are conservative not allowed to voice opinions anymore? Wait, I thought liberals were for giving everyone a voice, oh yeah, everyone accept those that don’t think like they do… Hilarious…
BlahBlahBlah
June 30th, 2011
11:07 am
Everyone who keeps talking about default is lying. As long as we have the money to pay interest on the debt, we AREN’T IN DEFAULT.
And there’s nothing that says we HAVE to pay the next few items on the list at 100%. Pay 70% of Medicare/Medicaid for the time being = $15 billion to cover the next 3 items on the list, for example. Temporarily cap Social Security payments for each person at the federal poverty level, and pay the remainder when the dust settles.
There are methods to stretch those dollars. The sky is falling fear-mongering might have worked, except that card already got played back in 2008. We’re not buying it anymore.
stands for decibels
June 30th, 2011
11:08 am
corporate media are giving the gop a free pass as usual
you’re telling me.
my news.google top stories list is a sickeningly Broderian assemblage of “oh tut tut isn’t it a shame that both sides are fighting!” – and a carefully “balanced” batch of editorializing about the Uppity One’s Uppityness in that Uppity Presser he had yesterday.
Which, yes, is the same as giving Gooperville a free pass.
Dave R.
June 30th, 2011
11:08 am
“If I could do so legally, I would get a cease and desist order on the use of the word evil.”
No chance, AmVet. Space Monkeys ARE evil.
And I need the ability to say so.
stands for decibels
June 30th, 2011
11:09 am
Pay 70% of Medicare/Medicaid for the time being
yeah. What could possibly go wrong? it’s not like goo gobs of people’s livelihoods are tied into that particular marketplace or anythin’…
Brosephus
June 30th, 2011
11:09 am
Adam
They’ve both been getting them all along, and you better believe that Wall Street isn’t gonna let anybody take their big money sammich away anytime soon.
stands for decibels
June 30th, 2011
11:10 am
Temporarily cap Social Security payments for each person at the federal poverty level, and pay the remainder when the dust settles.
But seriously, l liked this post a lot better when it was Redneck Convert saying it @ 9.38.
AmVet
June 30th, 2011
11:11 am
We have seen it coming for years. We have ignored the warnings.
Its what cons do: As espoused perfectly by one of the great mental giants of the right wing:
REICHMANN: People think that the administration didn’t see it (the corporate destruction of capitalism/economic implosion of 2008) coming, and they want to know why?
CHENEY: Well, I don’t know that anybody did.
Of course they did, dumas. You just had your head up your ___, as was the case with every other unfolding crisis…
Granny Godzilla
June 30th, 2011
11:11 am
El Jefe
That was a ridiculous post.
Left wing management
June 30th, 2011
11:12 am
Woodstock Mike: “Thank you for your typical liberal insults”
What’s a ‘liberal insult’ ?
Fletch
June 30th, 2011
11:12 am
I agree – but we have been painted into a corner so no longer have a choice. I guess we can just keep doing this over and over though, right?
midtownguy
June 30th, 2011
11:13 am
“Living within our means” would devastate the South. Not a single southern state (I don’t count Florida as southern) pays into the federal government what they get back in services and benefits from the federal government.
If you don’t believe me, just ask someone in California, New York or Massachusetts how they feel about their tax dollars “subsidizing the bible belt?”
Adam
June 30th, 2011
11:13 am
Common Sense: It is indeed factual. Ignorance of the facts is no excuse.
Then you won’t mind backing it up?
williebkind
June 30th, 2011
11:13 am
Do not raise the debt ceiling! Now the progressive liberals will have to justify sensibly instead of emotionally why they need to spend tax payers money. If the event is so important then get the NAACP, ACL, GE, and other devout followers of the DNC to go on money drivers to fund the project. Do not raise the debt ceiling!
ty webb
June 30th, 2011
11:13 am
Dave R,
while you’re at it…who you got winning the superbowl(if there is a season)? and by how much are they going to win?
Brosephus
June 30th, 2011
11:13 am
What could possibly go wrong? it’s not like goo gobs of people’s livelihoods are tied into that particular marketplace or anythin’…
Now you know that gubmint money just evaporates into thin air. Not one damn cent that the gubmint spends end up in the hands of private sector employers and/or employees.
Howdy Hi
June 30th, 2011
11:14 am
What part of debt “LIMIT” do people not understand? Why even have a limit Jay? why not just make the debt ceiling a GAZILLION dollars and then we never have to talk about it?
CUT FREAKIN’ SPENDING!!!!!!! We don’t have a revenue problem – we have a SPENDING problem!!!
AmVet
June 30th, 2011
11:14 am
Fine, Dave, but,
If I work hard and make a lot of money, I am evil.
If I work hard and start a business that grows, I am evil.
If I use a tax break from Obama, (Corporate aircraft) I am evil.
EVIL Corporations and the EVIL government and EVIL rich people?
It’s all just too elementary school for me.
williebkind
June 30th, 2011
11:14 am
midtownguy
June 30th, 2011
11:13 am
We can send all the minorities to their state and let them feed, cloth, and house them instead?
WOODSTOCK MIKE
June 30th, 2011
11:15 am
How about turning the argument the other way, if we know that not raising the debt ceiling will be catastrophic, and we know the GOP will vote to raise the debt limit if there are no tax increases, does this mean that the Democrats would rather cause a catastrophe all in the name of raising taxes?
Fred
June 30th, 2011
11:15 am
@Josef IE 10:58:
Do you have a check book? If you still have checks you still have money. Have pen will travel. Gov’t economics 101.
Same principle lol.
khc
June 30th, 2011
11:16 am
jimmy, apparently you don’t follow too closely, the senate repubs blocked with an unprecedented number of filibusters ie see:http://fightforbetterus.blogspot.com/2010/03/solid-evidence-emerges-of-senate.html
Disgusted
June 30th, 2011
11:16 am
A deal will be struck that cuts $1.8 trillion from various sources over the next 10 years.
They will be REAL cuts, not the accounting tricks put over on the GOP in the last round of cuts.
Tax loopholes and certain subsidies will be closed / phased out to provide increased revenues.
No tax rate increases will be included.
The debt ceiling will be raised by $1.2 trillion.
That will be kicking the can down the road. It would mean that the same crisis would confront us next year. After all, $1.8 trillion over 10 years wouldn’t even cut the annual spending enough to cover half the present deficit. And closing those loopholes would barely make a dent in the revenue shortfall—those would be token revenue increases. But then, I suppose the general public is stupid enough to buy the argument that the problem had been “solved.”
AmVet
June 30th, 2011
11:17 am
“We don’t have a revenue problem – we have a SPENDING problem!!!”
Patently false.
AmVet
June 30th, 2011
11:19 am
“We can send all the minorities to their state and let them feed, cloth, and house them instead?”
Good one, williebeklan!
Granny Godzilla
June 30th, 2011
11:19 am
I see that Mark Halperin has been suspended…..