Criminal investigation into torture deaths begins
“Attorney General Eric Holder said Thursday he has ordered a full criminal investigation into the deaths of two prisoners who were interrogated by the Central Intelligence Agency in the years following the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorism attacks.
The move is likely to restart the partisan fight over Bush-era detainee treatment that Democrats have called torture.
Mr. Holder said he accepted the recommendations of John Durham, a prosecutor from Connecticut, who has been examining the treatment of CIA detainees and studying whether CIA interrogations exceeded methods allowed under legal guidance provided at the time by the Justice Department’s Office of Legal Counsel.
Justice Department prosecutors led by Mr. Durham have been using a grand jury in Alexandria, Va., to investigate the death of Gul Rahman at a CIA prison called the Salt Pit in Afghanistan in 2002, as well as the death of Manadel al Jamadi at Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq in 2003, according to a person familiar with the matter.
Holder had previously made it clear that the Justice Department would not prosecute any intelligence officer “who acted in good faith and within the scope of the legal guidance given by the Office of Legal Counsel regarding the interrogation of detainees.” In other words, if they abided by the standards and legal guidance set by their superiors — however flawed, immoral and illegal those standards and legal guidance might be — they would not be prosecuted.
I think that’s appropriate and necessary. If we’re not going to prosecute the people at the top who created the torture policy — and clearly we’re not — then we sure as hell shouldn’t prosecute the lowly employees who carried that policy out.
However, if U.S. officials tortured individuals to the point of death, well, that is not the country to which I pledge allegiance, and was not within the bounds of any standards that have so far been made public. We are Americans and Americans aren’t supposed to do that kind of thing. The people we fight may do those things; that’s one reason we fight them.
But we don’t. Or at least we’re not supposed to.
– Jay Bookman
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421 comments Add your comment
AmVet
June 30th, 2011
7:03 pm
josef, I think I see the disconnect.
I say courageously, strictly in political terms. But then again, these guys are smart enough to have weighed the possible changes of voters, if any.
In human terms, I agree with you. By not going one single step up the chain of command, Obama/Holder are arguably cowards. I knew, of course, he wasn’t gonna so much as blink at the massive criminal shenanigans that had just occurred in Washington and Wall Street when he arrived at 1600.
And in reality, what could he do?
Embroil the country in endless grand jury indictments and years of trials?
No, he surged into Afghanistan and played his role as he was told.
We don’t want justice.
We just want it to appear we do.
1811/1801 - 0311/0317
June 30th, 2011
7:04 pm
say what?
Ah ………………… obviously you fail to see what I was getting at. I’ll try to let John Adams explain it to you.
“Because we have no government, armed with power, capable of contending with human passions, unbridled by morality and religion. Avarice, ambition, revenge and licentiousness would break the strongest cords of our Constitution, as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.”
1811/1801 - 0311/0317
June 30th, 2011
7:04 pm
Good fight:
As I said, you had the last word tonight.
Off to the dog park !
Doggone/GA
June 30th, 2011
7:05 pm
“Seems you are trying to make my point…….one method is acceptable to those that despise the other”
Making your point? Nope. Do they use waterboarding to stop “unruly” citizens? Waterboarding and tazing are in no way comparable, unless USED comparably…which they are not. Yet.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
June 30th, 2011
7:06 pm
md… you seem to be confusing tazing people during a lawful stop or arrest as a method of restraint that is purportedly a lesser act than shooting vs torturing a prisioner in custody as part of a process of interrogation. They are separate and distinct actions. If a tazer is used during interrogation it may very well constitute torture in accordance with its definition. A police officer may in some circumstances lawfully shoot someone during an arrest. A police officer may not shoot someone as an interrogation technique.
getalife
June 30th, 2011
7:06 pm
4.1 trillion plus economic collapse equals lost decade of economic growth and no jobs.
Nice work gop.
godless heathen
June 30th, 2011
7:07 pm
“Oh for starters by prosecuting Karl Rove and other Bush administration officials.”
Karl Rove??? Oh come-on. Senior Advisor and Deputy Chief of Staff. White House Interns were the only ones that he could boss around. And you want to pin war crimes on him? Where do you people get this stuff??
After Obama’s term is over next year, would you like to see some partisan prosecutor put him on trial for murdering innocent Pakistani civilians with Predator drones?
Real Scooter
June 30th, 2011
7:08 pm
Dusty
June 30th, 2011
6:58 pm
Great responce Dusty! And you are right.He wasn’t even talking to me and I felt insulted.
josef
June 30th, 2011
7:09 pm
ZamVet
“We don’t want justice.
We just want it to appear we do.”
And on that point we are in agreement..
And we want to do that to further our own political ends…
Paul
June 30th, 2011
7:09 pm
josef 6:40
I meant ‘parsing’ more for this forum.
The process I described is just the nature of the beast at that level in a large organization. One looks ahead, identifies problem areas and says “give me something to provide legal cover. I do not care about opinions, everyone has one. All I want to know is, can I do this or not?”
I’ve seen it happen – heck, I’ve had just about that statement directed to me.
Joe Mama
June 30th, 2011
7:11 pm
1811 — “Because we have no government, armed with power, capable of contending with human passions, unbridled by morality and religion. Avarice, ambition, revenge and licentiousness would break the strongest cords of our Constitution, as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.”
As if religious morality could possibly make one *immune* to avarice, ambition, revenge and/or licentiousness.
Real Scooter
June 30th, 2011
7:13 pm
4.1 trillion plus economic collapse equals lost decade of economic growth and no jobs.
Nice work gop.
LMAO!!!! Are you trying to change the subject getalife?
Dusty
June 30th, 2011
7:14 pm
Thanks, Scooter.
I shall go and appease my tender feelings with a BLT. Already had fried chicken for lunch. I don’t want to overcompensate here.
Left wing management
June 30th, 2011
7:14 pm
md: “In reality, both are uncomfortable methods of behavior modification with neither resulting in death. I suspect that ideology has more to do with the difference……….”
Again, tazing is done to gain control (subdue) a person, not as a deliberate infliction of harm on someone already in custody. By the way, something being “uncomfortable” has little to do with the real harm inflicted by an action For example: what if someone arrests and blindfolds you, telling you they’re holding a loaded gun to your head. When they pull the trigger, you learn it only had blanks in it. Is that an unacceptable way to treat a prisoner?
Paul
June 30th, 2011
7:17 pm
regarding tazing as torture or not:
Jay cited the section of the US Code dealing with characteristics of torture at 5:52.
Tazing does not meet the criteria.
Left wing management
June 30th, 2011
7:19 pm
heathen: “Karl Rove??? Oh come-on. Senior Advisor and Deputy Chief of Staff. White House Interns were the only ones that he could boss around. And you want to pin war crimes on him? ”
I wasn’t talking about war crimes or torture specifically in that case. I was talking about the Holder JD’s failure to bring ANY members of the Bush administration to justice for what were almost certainly criminally prosecutable. The names Addington and Yoo, along with Rumsfeld, have been mentioned. Rove’s role in the Valerie Plame affair should have been more closely scrutinized, as well, however.
josef
June 30th, 2011
7:20 pm
PAUL
I was aware that’s what you meant, for this forum, and what you said was, in my opinion, what this is…that type of parsing and it will be just that type of parsing that comes to the fore in this “investigation.” The problem, as I see it, is that in that “looking ahead” that nebulous “they” who authorized this type of behavior had their asses covered from the get-go…
In the one at hand here, the point you make–and you are probably correct–is that these two being investigated were acting outside their “official” capacity, off the clock so to speak…therefore no need to look beyond them to the higher ups…
Joe
June 30th, 2011
7:20 pm
Jay I agree with you about as frequently as Halley’s Comet comes into view but I agree with you that anyone who was involved with torture in the name of our country should be prosecuted, and if convicted incarcerated. That includes the Imbecile Bush, “Dick” Cheney, and Donald Rumsfeld.
Real Scooter
June 30th, 2011
7:21 pm
Dusty
June 30th, 2011
7:14 pm
I had wild turkey parmasian for lunch and will have chicken lasanga for supper.I guess you could say I’m in an Italian fowl mood today.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
June 30th, 2011
7:24 pm
Paul, I would disagree with you. Tasers can be used to torture as can pliers. Used in an interrogation the use may meet the definition under Sec. 2340.
A United Nations committee said in 2009 that use of Taser weapons can be a form of torture, in violation of the U.N. Convention Against Torture.
Paul
June 30th, 2011
7:25 pm
josef nix
Your paragraph 2 – yup.
You may have missed the reference a day or two ago – you (and others) were toasted at the first-ever Bookmaniacs reunion!
I’m gonna bring up (at some future point when the usual suspects show up) Jay’s point about how does a socialist country like England produce so many new millionaires? I lost count of the new Maseratis, Rolls Royces and Bentleys I saw. There was a Lamborghini dealer down the street from my hotel – cha-ching!
AmVet
June 30th, 2011
7:25 pm
To Mama’s point,
“When one person suffers from a delusion it is called insanity. When many people suffer from a delusion it is called religion.”
Paul
June 30th, 2011
7:26 pm
Keep Up
“Paul, I would disagree with you. Tasers can be used to torture as can pliers. ”
I understood the question applied to police officers in the performance of their duties.
Doggone/GA
June 30th, 2011
7:28 pm
“A United Nations committee said in 2009 that use of Taser weapons can be a form of torture, in violation of the U.N. Convention Against Torture.”
and that’s part of the issue. Most things are not, in and of themselves, torture…but how they are used can be. Splashing water on someone’s face is not torture. Waterboarding is.
Paul
June 30th, 2011
7:28 pm
AmVet
And for some people, politics is their religion!
Here in Texas, religion takes another form:
http://abcnews.go.com/Primetime/story?id=132425&page=1
Real Scooter
June 30th, 2011
7:29 pm
Hey josef,I’ve noticed your use of ZamVet lately,I guess I missed something as usual.
I think I would be more inclined to WhamVet as he puts the whammy on folks that don’t agree with him. LMAO!
josef
June 30th, 2011
7:29 pm
PAUL
I was toasted, eh? I trust with the old Irish one “may be be in heaven a ‘alf hour afore the devil knows ‘e’s dead”
I find your mention of socialist England’s millionaire intriguing…sort of what comes when you spread the wealth, eh?
josef
June 30th, 2011
7:31 pm
Scooter
It was a typo I made one day and he and I agreed that it fit!
Paul
June 30th, 2011
7:32 pm
josef
Well, USinUK and I were in London, and there’s no love lost between the Brits and the Irish… maybe drinking will bridge the gap?
Spreading the wealth creates more millionaires? I think we’re gonna have full-mode EOI fun with that!
Jm
June 30th, 2011
7:33 pm
I have lost any semblance of respect for this administration. And our whole country is going in the toilet for a variety of reasons related to blatant disregard for the law.
Real Scooter
June 30th, 2011
7:35 pm
“When one person suffers from a delusion it is called insanity. When many people suffer from a delusion it is called religion.”
I was brought up in a religious atmosphere but would have to agree with that statement to a certain degree AmVet.
.
godless heathen
June 30th, 2011
7:39 pm
““When one person suffers from a delusion it is called insanity. When many people suffer from a delusion it is called religion.””
Eggzellant!
AmVet
June 30th, 2011
7:40 pm
Scoot, you’re right, it’s that damn josef.
He made a typo and I liked it.
So I’ve used it a couple of times, as homage to his clumsy fingers.
WhamVet is great.
I thought of ShaZamVet, but it’s a bit too cartoonish…
Paul, glad to read you’re not hanging out with the hoi polloi.
I haven’t been back since New Years Eve 1976 and damn, if I still don’t miss that lovely Isle.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFwOs-jy53A&feature=fvst
Cartersville beer guy
June 30th, 2011
7:44 pm
Paul
June 30th, 2011
7:26 pm
Keep Up
I understood the question applied to police officers in the performance of their duties.
Gwinnett PD officers taser Waffle House employees for sport…till they get caught that is.
Real Scooter
June 30th, 2011
7:47 pm
I thought of ShaZamVet, but it’s a bit too cartoonish
LMAO!!!!
Keep Up the Good Fight!
June 30th, 2011
7:52 pm
Paul, well since police officers can interrogate, I would say that they can torture. The certainly meet the “under color of law” portion of the definition. But I dont think you and I have any real disagreement on the claim of right to use torture.
Now that beer guy…. I wonder who gets caught…the Waffle House employees or the officers? Frankly there are some tough birds in the Waffle House who could probably be more dangerous with their spatulas than a taser…. food optional, smothered and covered.
Paul
June 30th, 2011
7:52 pm
Beer Guy
Book “Friday Night Lights.” One of the football players graduated, did a tour as a Marine then went to work as a cop. Said it took him about six months to realize 95% of all small-town cops should be allowed nowhere near fireams -
josef
June 30th, 2011
7:54 pm
PAUL
Many, many moons ago a Welsh friend used to tell tales of his and his Irish buddy, Sean Burn’s, escapades in the drear of post War London in the 1950s. Said they went into bar frequented by British sailors, says Sean had a few and stood up in an Erin go bragh mood and proclaims, ” ‘Ey, Tommy, ya know the sun used to ne’er set on the British Empire…now ye kin piss across it,” whereupon he demonstrated his point! According to Ian, the Welshman, “the ass kickin’ twas worth it!”
Paul
June 30th, 2011
7:54 pm
Keep Up
Just be careful… anything taken as dissing Waffle House and @@ will show up and wreak so much havoc upon you even Holder couldn’t save you -
Keep Up the Good Fight!
June 30th, 2011
7:56 pm
ShaZamVet cartoonish? Now BamWamVet…that is cartoonish. SlamDamvet?
Keep Up the Good Fight!
June 30th, 2011
7:58 pm
Thanks for the warning Paul…. I will make no reference to the cruel and unusual punishment section of the US Constitution.
Paul
June 30th, 2011
7:59 pm
josef
LOL! Sounds about right.
Spent a few days in Wales – the northern part is absolutely some of the most gorgeous country I’ve ever seen.
Sheep all over the place. Owners put stripes on ‘em to tell who owns ‘em when they get out of their boundaries. So I just had to tell one of the women in the group that a while back one of the red stripe sheep got together with one of the blue stripe sheep and when the baby sheep was born it had a purple stripe and the farmers couldn’t decide who it belonged to…
She spent a bit of time trying to come up with a fair solution -
josef
June 30th, 2011
8:00 pm
good fight
Waffle House waitresses…back in Jackson there was one who, well, best say “please ma’am if you’d be so kind” when placing your order. One night a local cop was razzing her. She leaned over the counter, looked him steady in the eye and says, “I’m from Morton. You know what we do in Morton? We raise chee-ckens in Morton. If you don’t want me to wrang yore scrawny neck like a chee-cken you’ll just set there and eat yore grits…” He did!
Keep Up the Good Fight!
June 30th, 2011
8:06 pm
josef…I dont doubt it. Why I can even beleive that officer may have been assigned a number, say 1811
Keep Up the Good Fight!
June 30th, 2011
8:11 pm
Kimmel did a great Bachmann video…. including the Nina, the Pinata and the Santa Maria.
The best part starts at about 3:15
http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/david/jimmy-kimmel-reveals-michele-bachmanns-story
Paul
June 30th, 2011
8:11 pm
Well, a full day of work and jet lag are doing a number on me.
Pleasant evening, all -
md
June 30th, 2011
8:14 pm
One mans trash is another mans treasure…….and I believe that may also apply to torture……..I’d hazard a guess that those on the receiving end may have a different definition than any book or code.
As I said before, ideology……which is basically a given set of definitions…………all man made to suit one’s purposes……..a la abortion.
josef
June 30th, 2011
8:18 pm
PAUL
G’night to ye..see you tomorrow…welcome home…
Good fight…
That’s it! Back in those days when things got slow, the cops would take a break and come and hassle to gay folks. One night one of our d*kes stood up to them. One of them growls, “who the hell do you think you are, b*tch.” She fixed him in stare-for-stare, “I’m a friend of Chee-cken Woman and I’m from Morton, too.” He shrunk to about the size of a pullet! Bet he was 1811!
Recon (2nd.and 3rd.)
June 30th, 2011
8:19 pm
For left wing management and Jay who spend too much time in the far left think tanks to be creditable.
http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/42880435/ns/today-today_news/t/cia-chief-waterboarding-aided-bin-laden-raid/
josef
June 30th, 2011
8:24 pm
good fight
@ 8:11
NOW we know which MAJOR HISTORIAN the Imam’s been reading!
md
June 30th, 2011
8:30 pm
“Lungren: “If that were the case, would it make the action that we took against Osama bin Laden illegal?”
Holder: “No. I mean, I think that in terms of the attenuation, to the extent that it was assumed that that were true, the attenuation between those acts that might have been problematic and the action that was taken just two days ago was sufficiently long so that the action would still be considered legal.” ”
So Holder thinks “time” is the answer……………that must mean we can torture……wait a specified period of time….and then act on information gleaned from torture and all is hunky doory…………..
Justification through definitions…………………………
josef
June 30th, 2011
8:34 pm
md
Parse THAT! Jeez, talk about a pmpous ass…somebody needs to take away that boy’s thesaurus.
Joe Stalin
June 30th, 2011
8:39 pm
two killed is a tragedy, 20 million is a statistic
md
June 30th, 2011
8:44 pm
Jo…yep.
Me thinks what goes around will eventually come around………and after the world court gets through playing their games, we are going to have an awful lot of folks confined to this country……….
getalife
June 30th, 2011
8:51 pm
Enter your comments here
Recon (2nd.and 3rd.)
June 30th, 2011
8:52 pm
Where are all the lib’s tonight? Must be scurrying around the far left think tanks gathering up talking points like rats looking for cheese.
getalife
June 30th, 2011
8:52 pm
Holder will give us the old “not enough evidence” conclusion.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
June 30th, 2011
8:55 pm
josef…it was an unique history. I thought I saw a quick foto of you in the report
If we all post MORTON at the same time when 1811 is here, I bet the result will be Niagra Falls
Keep Up the Good Fight!
June 30th, 2011
8:56 pm
Why Recon…it looks like your “opinions” are just insults. More shame for you.
Joe
June 30th, 2011
8:57 pm
There really is no debate Jay. Only far left freaks like yourself still won’t admit that harsh interogation works as evidense with bin Ladens death. Honestly though since you loons believe its ok to kill babys but not make a terrorist unconfortable then how could you be taken seriously?
BADA BING
June 30th, 2011
8:59 pm
@AJC ….One of the Eddie Long sex accusers arrested in Miami in a BMW, with large amount of pot, and a weapon. Looks like he put that Bishop Long hush-hush money to good use.
Soothsayer
June 30th, 2011
9:02 pm
Glenn Beck: good bye and good riddance!
josef
June 30th, 2011
9:06 pm
good fight..
My favorite one from that routine was…”maybe we should stop telling kids that anybody can grow up to be president…!”
Recon (2nd.and 3rd.)
June 30th, 2011
9:06 pm
Keep up,” insults”? I never fire on personally unless fired upon personally. If my comments directed at the left wing ideology collectively upsets you, so be it as it’s all part of the blog game.
getalife
June 30th, 2011
9:09 pm
Yeah Joe,
And you cons are against killing obl because a dem President got him.
Can’t take you seriously indeed.
Recon (2nd.and 3rd.)
June 30th, 2011
9:09 pm
“Glenn Beck: good bye and good riddance!”
You should keep your seat belt buckled as he’ll still be around.
jack bull
June 30th, 2011
9:11 pm
who’s on trial, the guys that cut dan pearl’s head off?
Fred
June 30th, 2011
9:11 pm
Recon (2nd.and 3rd.)
June 30th, 2011
9:06 pm
Keep up,” insults”? I never fire on personally unless fired upon personally. If my comments directed at the left wing ideology collectively upsets you, so be it as it’s all part of the blog game.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Holy crap is THAT lie rich. One needs only to go to last night to poke holes in that self righteous BS.
josef
June 30th, 2011
9:12 pm
Goodgye, Glenn
That queen got on my last gay nerve…
oldguy
June 30th, 2011
9:13 pm
1. Two less probable Muslim terrorists?? Boo Hoo
2. Jay, “that is not the country to which I pledge allegiance,” I thought you only pledged allegiance to Chairman Obama….when the change?
3. OMG!! there are casualities in a war on Terrorists!! How could that be!! Nobody told me there would be casualities!!
4. Torture – i see Jay is careful not to claim that term to himself – but he does use it – Well, to me watching BHO speak is torture and there is no question that watching “The View” is absolute torture!!
As most of you know but fail to mention the US and its allies killed MILLIONS of innocent civilians, on purpose, with firebombing in WW2. The developers of that strategy remain honored.
So I will repeat what I have said before “Kill them all, let Allah sort them out!”
p.s. should Holder be tried for the death of the border patrol agent killed with a gun supplied , on purpose, by the ATF??
josef
June 30th, 2011
9:16 pm
FRED
Parlant de la torture, comment ça va, Mec?
Fred
June 30th, 2011
9:16 pm
I love Alzheimer rants……..
Fred
June 30th, 2011
9:18 pm
It goes well Josef lol.
jm
June 30th, 2011
9:19 pm
Sad to see Obama struggling for money. That’s what happens when you abdicate responsibility for balancing the federal budget.
Fred
June 30th, 2011
9:20 pm
But you are right, I should just let the varnished brains alone. Nothing ever penetrates lol. Them minds are closed tighter than a nuns pu……. dang. I can’t type THAT can I?
josef
June 30th, 2011
9:20 pm
Fred..
Alzheimer Rants…that’s Ayn’s cuddin’, right?
oldguy
June 30th, 2011
9:21 pm
How about lets putting “War Hero” Fastboat John Kerry on trial for murder and war crimes??
He testified, under oath, before a congressional committee that he shot an unarmed teenaged boy in the back as he ran away from a site of an ambush on the Mekong river in Viet Nam.
Joe Mama
June 30th, 2011
9:24 pm
oldguy — “How about lets putting “War Hero” Fastboat John Kerry on trial for murder and war crimes?? He testified, under oath, before a congressional committee that he shot an unarmed teenaged boy in the back as he ran away from a site of an ambush on the Mekong river in Viet Nam.”
If you can find a Federal prosecutor to take it on, go for it.
Recon (2nd.and 3rd.)
June 30th, 2011
9:25 pm
Freddy@9:11, well now you trying to get nice with midori by trying to low key a ball less dig directed at me. You’re a pathetic self described fat body. Oh! BTW, this isn’t a dating blog so you’re out of luck unless Jays blog affords you some king of self gratification outlet. Drink some more loud mouth, you’ll be passing out on the floor scoshi scoshi.
josef
June 30th, 2011
9:27 pm
Cat fight! Cat fight!
Joe Mama
June 30th, 2011
9:27 pm
Recon, Fred seems to like girls and I don’t think he’s into abuse.
You may want to adjust your game or else you’re going to go home alone and unloved again tonight.
oldguy
June 30th, 2011
9:27 pm
Hey Joe,
no way!! And that is as it should be, IT WAS WAR!! SH$$ happens!
Fred
June 30th, 2011
9:28 pm
LOL Josef, the methhead heroine of the Republican party, nice pun.
Joe Mama
June 30th, 2011
9:30 pm
oldguy — “Hey Joe, no way!! And that is as it should be, IT WAS WAR!! SH$$ happens!”
So what’s your issue here, then?
Recon (2nd.and 3rd.)
June 30th, 2011
9:31 pm
Joe Mama, you claim to be a handicapped veteran so I’ll give you a pass not knowing when, where or how you got hit assuming you did. Fred’s a blow hard and not worthy of the same consideration.
oldguy
June 30th, 2011
9:32 pm
Recon,
As a Vietnam vet…. you know like I do that Innocent people are NEVER injured in a war!
Reguards, hope all is well!!!!
Bruno
June 30th, 2011
9:32 pm
josef–Will try to get back to you this weekend. Time has been short lately getting the new office ready along with training for the Ptree RR.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSuv4zZPqwY
Joe Mama
June 30th, 2011
9:33 pm
Off Topic — Prince Harry can have his pick of women in the UK and probably any young single woman in the world he sets his mind to, and this is his latest squeeze?
http://blogs.ajc.com/news-to-me/2011/06/30/prince-harry-dating-lingerie-model-cousin/?cp=1
Quick, tell his dad and his brother to school him on this subject.
getalife
June 30th, 2011
9:34 pm
beck would say anything to get paid.
Amazing how many cons bought his act.
Recon (2nd.and 3rd.)
June 30th, 2011
9:35 pm
John Fairy or excuse me Kerry was put down by pretty much all of the swift boat command who served with that candy a$$.
Joe Mama
June 30th, 2011
9:36 pm
Recon — “Joe Mama, you claim to be a handicapped veteran”
I’ve got a DD-214 and a VA rating letter. That’s all that matters.
“so I’ll give you a pass not knowing when, where or how you got hit assuming you did.”
I didn’t get hit. I’ve never claimed to be disabled as a result of *combat,* but my disability *is* service-connected. Bear in mind that disabled ‘Nam vets who were exposed to Agent Orange are classified as noncombat disabled, too.
Fred
June 30th, 2011
9:36 pm
Hey recon, it’s alway nice to have a stalker who has a man crush on me, but if I was ever going to bat for the other team I think I’d hit on Josef. Oh crap, THEN I’d have unmentionable to deal with. Never mind.
Anyway varnish head, you will provoke and when you get your ass handed to you, you will go tell the teacher and demand that someone be banned. You ARE a nutless bully. You dish it out but when you get it back you whine like a little girl and go tell on someone. Semper Fi you REMF wannabe lol.
oh, and it’s FUN being fat. That means I can be jolly. And I’m having a JOLLY good time right now. You on the othe rhand are ate up with hatred and bitterness.
Smooches to you cupcake.
oldguy
June 30th, 2011
9:36 pm
My issue?
People like Jay, who have never seen action in a war, seem to think its all clean and black and white; its not, you do what you are told and try to lookout for your own and your buddy’s A$$.
josef
June 30th, 2011
9:37 pm
BRUNO
May not be able to hand you that drink…kids are talking about family barbecue for the 4th and given the crush in the neighborhood, we probably will go spend the night with one of them…
TruthBe
June 30th, 2011
9:38 pm
Hey why don’t you ask Eric holder about his criminal role in the murder of those 84 women, chidren, and babies in Waco and Ruby Ridge? And his role in the murder of Sec.Ron Brown during the Clinton years. What about his role in protecting his people the Black (Pussies) Panthers? Pardens for all democrat supporter with big checking accounts by Eric Holder and company. Eric Holder is acriminal and should be in jail period.
Recon (2nd.and 3rd.)
June 30th, 2011
9:40 pm
old guy, cool as a monsoon rain. Hope you are too. Semper Fi. BTW…we say say Semper Fi to our Army buddies who we respect for also fighting that God forsaken war.
Joe Mama
June 30th, 2011
9:40 pm
Recon — “John Fairy or excuse me Kerry was put down by pretty much all of the swift boat command who served with that candy a$$.”
Actually, one of the officers with whom he served and who was involved in that swiftboating liars’ group was a former CO of Kerry’s who put him in for a valor award, gave him a glowing evaluation report and who *campaigned* for Kerry in Massachusetts prior to Kerry’s run for the Presidency.
When that information came out, said officer quietly withdrew from the group.
And as far as candy-butt goes, I’d guess that the safest post in Vietnam was a lot more dangerous than the hottest post in Texas or Alabama. I don’t slag on any combat veteran’s service, whether I like them personally or not. Maybe you should try it.
Fred
June 30th, 2011
9:40 pm
And quit with the whining vietnam vet whining crap recon. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. You VM vets are the whiniest bunch to ever “serve” this Country. Get over yourselves already. 364 and a wake up? PUH LEASE. You brought more shame and disgrace on the US Military than any other time than the Cav did in the Indian wars. Smoking dope, fragging each other……… undisciplined rabble of draftees.
Whuined so much that there was a “Vietnam wall” LONG before there was a WWII memorial. And there STILL isn’t a Korean War memorial. Now THOSE boys in Korea went through some REAL horror. But you are too myopic to know about that.
Bruno
June 30th, 2011
9:41 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nl6nl8deFVk
oldguy
June 30th, 2011
9:41 pm
HYey Josef,
Can you at least sneak a glass of red for the 4th??