Who pays — and who doesn’t pay — income taxes

The Tax Policy Center has released its latest statistics about who pays — and who does not pay — federal income taxes. According to its numbers, 46.4 percent of “tax units” in America will pay no income tax this year.

More than half of those non-paying units make less than $16,812. More than 80 percent make less than $33,542. Some will no doubt focus their outrage on those lower-income folks, but I’m more intrigued by the fact that 3,000 “tax units” with incomes above $2.18 million paid no income tax. All in all, 446,000 “tax units” with incomes above $103,465 paid no income tax on that money, a figure that includes capital gains taxes.

2011Now let’s put that in context, historical and otherwise.

First, personal income taxes account for just 44 percent of federal revenue. Payroll taxes account for 37.1 percent of revenue this year, and those taxes are paid by almost all of these “tax units” who don’t pay income taxes, with the exception of those whose main income is Social Security, pensions or investments.

1951Second, while the percentage of revenue raised through the personal income tax has remained relatively stable since World War II, the mix of revenue from other sources has shifted noticeably. Compared to 60 years ago, the payroll tax has tripled in importance as a revenue source, while the corporate income tax has fallen by two-thirds.

Let the call to raise taxes on the poor, the elderly on fixed income and lower-income earners begin.

– Jay Bookman

720 comments Add your comment

The Leg Lamp is a "major award".....

June 29th, 2011
8:04 am

godless heathen

June 29th, 2011
8:05 am

Corporations pay zero taxes. Stockholders and customers do.

The Leg Lamp is a "major award".....

June 29th, 2011
8:05 am

“tax units”…..don’t you just love it. Sounds like something Anthony Weiner would say.

stands for decibels

June 29th, 2011
8:06 am

Obviously we need to screw working class Americas even more than they’re being screwed now. Shared sacrifice!

stands for decibels

June 29th, 2011
8:07 am

The Leg Lamp is a "major award".....

June 29th, 2011
8:08 am

“Let the call to raise taxes on the poor, the elderly on fixed income and lower-income earners begin.”

Jay, I believe the only party pushing for tax increases is the Democrat party. So are you bashing them?

Normal

June 29th, 2011
8:09 am

I file, but I always get money back…does that count?

Normal

June 29th, 2011
8:10 am

Leg,
you’re a hoot.

The Leg Lamp is a "major award".....

June 29th, 2011
8:11 am

Normal
June 29th, 2011
8:09 am

If you don’t get back ALL of what you pay then, yes, that counts in my book.

Thomas

June 29th, 2011
8:12 am

You miss many points Jay. First you completely leave out refundable credits which refunds means the a great number of low income earners are actually paid back their withholding and are in effect paid by the fed to work. Your “glob” would get a D- on a seventh grade essay. Second, using your logic, corporations should not pay tax as they account for so little of the tax basis anyway. I assume you did a have arse job to get a number of responses.

A resonable person has no “outrage” as you call it. A person who is around folks who a) get their first job or b) do well and get a raise have seen first hand the pride in paying tax and contributing to this great country. It doesn’t have to be much, but the widow’s mite is a great story for a reason.

Uncle Jed

June 29th, 2011
8:13 am

First, personal income taxes account for just 44 percent of federal revenue. Payroll taxes account for 37.1 percent of revenue this year, and those taxes are paid by almost all of these “tax units” who don’t pay income taxes, with the exception of those whose main income is Social Security, pensions or investments.
++++++++++++++++
Let the call to raise taxes on the poor, the elderly on fixed income and lower-income earners begin.

A couple of points:
1) Payroll taxes are essentially personal income taxes as all taxes are personal taxes when we get right down to it, as every tax is on the back of the consumer, one way or another.

2) In many cases, “investments” create jobs, especially ownership of the majority of stocks.
++++++++++++++++
3) Every citizen shouls have “skin in the game”, albeit nearly nothing for certain categories. I say this because it seems that too many are disconnected from the process to understand that tax revenues are not generated out of thin air, but rather from the work of fellow citizens. It helps foment the class warfare that certain political alliances need in order top garner votes.

I have a class at 9:00 and have to go, so don’t accuse me of hiding when no response is posted ;-)

ty webb

June 29th, 2011
8:14 am

Normal,
no it just means they took more than they “needed”. “congrats” on getting your interest free loan to the federal government “back”.

The Leg Lamp is a "major award".....

June 29th, 2011
8:15 am

During the big Obamacare debate the POTUS said he wanted everyone to “have some skin in the game”. Why should the same not apply to taxes?

Granny Godzilla

June 29th, 2011
8:16 am

There are 78,000 tax filers with incomes of $211,000 to $533,000 who will pay no federal income taxes this year.

Even more amazingly, there are 24,000 households with incomes of $533,000 to $2.2 million with zero income tax liability, and 3,000 tax filers with incomes above $2.2 million with the same federal income tax liability as most of those with incomes barely above the poverty level.

From Andrew Sullivan

Uncle Jed

June 29th, 2011
8:16 am

Sorry for the typos. Will I ever learn the art of pre-submit proofreading?!?

Jay

June 29th, 2011
8:16 am

Wrong, Thomas. If you had taken the time to click the link, you would have discovered that the data take account for tax credits, etc.

As to “using your logic, corporations should not pay tax as they account for so little of the tax basis anyway,” I have no idea what you’re trying to say.

stranger in a strange land

June 29th, 2011
8:17 am

Wish I could play along today, but have to go earn some money, so I can pay taxes, so they can be effectively, and efficiently redistributed from DC land.
Stands for decibels @ 0806 – middle class: you may now assume the position.

The Leg Lamp is a "major award".....

June 29th, 2011
8:17 am

Granny Godzilla
June 29th, 2011
8:16 am

So you’re a proponent of the “fair tax” movement?

Thomas

June 29th, 2011
8:18 am

Granny- patently false. You must mean gross income or adjusted gross income as folks with taxable income generally pay tax.

“There are 78,000 tax filers with incomes of $211,000 to $533,000 who will pay no federal income taxes this year”.

Deductions are allowed against gross income.

Jay

June 29th, 2011
8:19 am

Most of them DO have skin in the game, Leg Lamp. That “skin” is merely acquired through the payroll tax rather than the income tax, a fact that you and others for some reason studiously ignore.

Again, the payroll tax raises close to the same amount as the income tax. How and why is it possible to just exclude that fact from your reality?

Gale

June 29th, 2011
8:19 am

Everytime in my adult life that I have heard of tax reform, the changes end up putting more burden on the low middle income earner. Personally, I don’t consider the upper range of middle income to be $250k/year.

The Leg Lamp is a "major award".....

June 29th, 2011
8:21 am

Jay
June 29th, 2011
8:19 am

The key phrase in your post is “Most of them DO have skin in the game”. Why not all?

Gale

June 29th, 2011
8:21 am

back to work for me.

Peadawg

June 29th, 2011
8:21 am

I’m surprised Jay didn’t do a column on this:

http://www.ajc.com/business/coburn-lieberman-seek-to-991056.html

“Two Senate rebels jumped into Congress’ cut-the-deficit competition on Tuesday, proposing to raise the age of Medicare eligibility to 67 and increase monthly premiums for millions of current beneficiaries.”

“The plan the two men outlined includes a gradual increase over the next five years in the monthly premium that seniors pay for doctor and other non-hospital services. Aides said it would translate into a monthly increase of $15 to $20 initially.

The age of eligibility would rise gradually from 65 to 67.

For the first time, better-off seniors would be charged more money for Medicare Part A, which covers hospital care.”

Sounds pretty good to me. Let’s see if we can the Democrats on board.

Jay

June 29th, 2011
8:22 am

To your point, Gale, 95 percent of “tax units” have income of less than $210,998. So $250,000 isn’t “middle” in any sense unless you define middle as the middle 97 percent or so.

Granny Godzilla

June 29th, 2011
8:23 am

Leggy

I love the “So you must be ….” start of a rightie post.

Really I do.

So….leggy you must be for beheading poor people who don’t pay income taxes.

So….leggy I can see you support debtors prisons.

So…leggy you are in favor of screwing the middle class.

So….leggy you are obviously a coporate toadie.

It’s time to retire your crystal balls.

The Leg Lamp is a "major award".....

June 29th, 2011
8:23 am

Peadawg
June 29th, 2011
8:21 am

“Let’s see if we can the Democrats on board.”

Is that an oxymoron? :lol:

Thomas

June 29th, 2011
8:25 am

Read it Jay-

(4) of the population o ftax units that do not pay a positive amount of individual INCOME tax, 10% receive a net refund of $4,094 or more, and 25% receive a net refund of $1,368 or more. It also shows that more than 50% of tax units that do not pay a positive tax paid exactly zero tax.

comment stands

“First, personal income taxes account for just 44 percent of federal revenue”

I suggest you go research what percent of revenue comes from corps and apply the same logic dude.

Left wing management

June 29th, 2011
8:25 am

So $250,000 isn’t “middle” in any sense unless you define middle as the middle 97 percent or so.

To the Koch brothers, who as we speak are in the process of buying this democracy, $250k is pretty small fish indeed.

Granny Godzilla

June 29th, 2011
8:25 am

oh and Thomas

see Jay’s 8:16

Andrew Sullivan, respected gay conservative, was discussing the same
report

Peadawg

June 29th, 2011
8:25 am

Instead of being a b*ch, Granny, you could have polity said, “no, I’m not a proponent of the fair tax”. But you chose the other route. O well.

The Leg Lamp is a "major award".....

June 29th, 2011
8:25 am

Granny Godzilla
June 29th, 2011
8:23 am

You’re erroneous, as usual, with your assumptions, but at least you brought some heat. Your earlier post was merely a cut and paste job and you stated nothing.

Anyway, the contents of your latest post reveals a darker, scarier side than I see from most libs.

thomas

June 29th, 2011
8:27 am

Am I reading the link wrong or does it say that of those with no personal tax liability, that atleast 35% of them get back over $1,000?

Why are we giving this money to them and in some cases would those amounts exceed what is being paid in payroll tax?

Like with over $4,000 being given back to the lowest 10%, seems they would most likely be liable for less than 4k in payroll taxes. meaning everyone does not have skin in the game as you and others sasy, right?

stands for decibels

June 29th, 2011
8:27 am

Let’s see if we can the Democrats on board.

We certainly ought to can any “Democrats” who get on board with this, and replace them with real ones.

stands for decibels

June 29th, 2011
8:28 am

Anyway, got to get back to producin’ so I can pay for some primary challengers…

Thomas

June 29th, 2011
8:28 am

Lttle “t” thomas you are correct. I would gladly run an example for our man Jay on tax software.

Aquagirl

June 29th, 2011
8:28 am

Corporations pay zero taxes. Stockholders and customers do.

This Boortzism, like all the others, makes no sense. Corporate employees only pay taxes because they get paychecks from the company. This means the corporation pays their income taxes too?

All life begins and ends with the Company, praised be its sacred name!

The Leg Lamp is a "major award".....

June 29th, 2011
8:28 am

Granny Godzilla
June 29th, 2011
8:23 am

By the way, I believe the “crystal balls” were retired when Congressman Weiner resigned. :lol:

thomus

June 29th, 2011
8:28 am

You must mean gross income or adjusted gross income as folks with taxable income generally pay tax.

what dus this mean,thomast?

Peadawg

June 29th, 2011
8:29 am

“We certainly ought to can any “Democrats” who get on board with this, and replace them with real ones.” – There we go. Congrats, stands. I’d expect nothing less from the party that thinks everything’s just peachy w/ Medicare and nothing needs to be done (except to raise taxes and call it a day).

Granny Godzilla

June 29th, 2011
8:29 am

leggy

You went from the

“So you must……” to “cut and Paste”

got anything new?

ty webb

June 29th, 2011
8:29 am

Granny G,
regarding andrew sullivan, “Gay”? Yes. “Respected” and “conservative”? No. The guy’s a “useful idiot” for your “side”. In other words, he’s a gay, slightly more attractive, “meghan mccain”.

The Leg Lamp is a "major award".....

June 29th, 2011
8:30 am

Aquagirl
June 29th, 2011
8:28 am

“All life begins and ends with the Company, praised be its sacred name!”

The libs believe all life begins and ends with the government. If you want to see how a nanny state functions, look at the news clips from Greece.

Lone Star State

June 29th, 2011
8:31 am

Since Georgia no longer wants illegal immigrants and Texas has decided to leave the U.S. behind, they are now welcoming all immigrants!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCLz7XQOIOQ

Granny Godzilla

June 29th, 2011
8:32 am

ty webb

Andrew Sullivan remains a respected gay conservative –

your “nannie nannie boo boo”, high school slam book, note passing kinda post is really childish.

thomas

June 29th, 2011
8:33 am

wow!

how did this happen I have had same name here for like 3 or 4 years, I go away for about a month and poof!

A Big “T” Thomas is here and a thom”u”s too.

The Leg Lamp is a "major award".....

June 29th, 2011
8:33 am

Granny Godzilla
June 29th, 2011
8:29 am

“got anything new?”

Look at your 8:23. Got anything new?

stranger in a strange land

June 29th, 2011
8:34 am

aqua girl – vis a vis ‘all life begins/ends with the government? If those are the chlice – I’ll take my chances with the ‘company’.

Producer

June 29th, 2011
8:35 am

Make all of those 46% tax “units” pay something in income taxes. Isn’t that only fair?

ty webb

June 29th, 2011
8:35 am

Granny G,
Thanks, I take that as a compliment. But who exactly “respects” the “conservative” andrew sullivan? Chris matthews? Bill maher? readers of “the daily beast”?

poison pen

June 29th, 2011
8:36 am

The reason it’s only 44% is because the rest don’t pay taxes, geeze, that wasn’t to hard to figure out.

There have been many people on here, including myself, that want most of the loopholes closed and subsidies stopped.

Granny fan

June 29th, 2011
8:36 am

I love me some Granny Godzilla. She is a hoot ! And smart too !

Mark in mid-town

June 29th, 2011
8:36 am

Jay, should payroll taxes really be considered taxes, or should they be considered akin to a person contributing to their 401K plan?

The Leg Lamp is a "major award".....

June 29th, 2011
8:37 am

Granny fan
June 29th, 2011
8:36 am

So now Granny Godzilla is posting under two names…. :cool:

Granny Godzilla

June 29th, 2011
8:38 am

The Leg Lamp is a “major award”…..

June 29th, 2011
8:33 am
Granny Godzilla
June 29th, 2011
8:29 am

“got anything new?”

Look at your 8:23. Got anything new?

yep, it was the first time I ever addressed the sillines of the “So you must……” silliness that we see here

that’s called new

CJ

June 29th, 2011
8:39 am

I wish Jay would do a piece on Neil Boortz’s lie that “corporations don’t pay taxes, people do.”

Boortz has persuaded his devoted listeners that all corporate income taxes are just passed on to consumers via higher prices. Evidently, he would have them believe, Mr. CEO says, our taxes went up $5 per unit. Okay, let’s raise the retail price $5 per unit.

Now if you like to let corporate-backed talk show hosts do your thinking for you, then at first blush, I can see why that would make perfect sense. But if you take a couple of minutes to consider it, you might recall that retail prices are ultimately set by the forces of supply and demand, not willy, nilly when the CEO gets a bug up his…

After thinking about it some more, you might also recall that corporate income taxes are only due if and when the company makes a profit. Mr. CEO isn’t going to increase prices if it reduces profits.

To the extent that corporate income taxes are paid for by people, they’re paid by the investors indirectly in the form of lower profits–not the consumers. The people who live primarily off of inheritances and investments are the people who Neil Boortz represents. That’s why he wants to shift the entire tax burden from corporations, inheritances, dividends, and capital gains to those who set their alarms and go to work every day.

Jimmy62

June 29th, 2011
8:39 am

I have no problem with low income folks not paying income tax. I do have a problem with them getting to vote. If you take more from society than you contribute, then you shouldn’t get a vote. Same goes for rich people who avoid paying taxes. And then if you’re poor and want to vote, you can voluntarily give up your government assistance payments of whatever type you are getting.

Granny Godzilla

June 29th, 2011
8:39 am

ty webb

let me help you….it was not a compliment….

shawny

June 29th, 2011
8:39 am

I pay a crapload. More than I should. No, Jay, I do not suggest that we increases taxes on the lower brackets.

I suggest that we remove ALL deductions, save easy to prove donations to charitable organizations. Organizations that have to be proven. Streamline the process so that (almost) no IRS is needed at the federal or state level.

In addition, loopholes need to be removed on corporations that hide their money in ways that they do not have to pay taxes, like the very liberal G.E. They spend millions to save billions (an efficient ROI, yet criminal in my mind).

BADA BING

June 29th, 2011
8:39 am

This ‘tax unit’ doesn’t mind paying his share of taxes. It would be nice tho, if the Gov’t would reciprocate with some ‘results units’, and some ‘value units’.

Granny Godzilla

June 29th, 2011
8:40 am

The Leg Lamp is a “major award”…..

June 29th, 2011
8:37 am
Granny fan
June 29th, 2011
8:36 am

So now Granny Godzilla is posting under two names….

Not in years and years and years – Jay can verify – but that is really ironic soming from you

carlosgvv

June 29th, 2011
8:40 am

Politicians in both parties have increasingly been going after the weakest in our society, the poor and elderly, by taking away more of their entitlements. At the same time, they are trying as hard as possible to protect their rich sponsors. It’s no accident we have the best Congress money can buy.

Granny Godzilla

June 29th, 2011
8:42 am

Leggy

Am I your choice of topic today because you have no serious input on Jay’s?

Thanks, but try to focus, ok?

The Leg Lamp is a "major award".....

June 29th, 2011
8:42 am

Jimmy62
June 29th, 2011
8:39 am

Now there’s an idea. Might need to dig in it a little more, but a novel idea nonetheless.

TERRY TAYLOR

June 29th, 2011
8:43 am

What is not spoken of in Bookman’s editorial is that the top 2% of taxpayers pay at a 29.5% tax rate on income taxes, including income, Social Security and Medicare – aka, everything. The middle quintile pays 14.3% – less than half the rate actually paid by the affluent. Again, all taxes, including payroll. And the top 2% earns 19% of household income but pays 28% of federal taxes paid by households. The middle quintile earns 13% of income, but pays 9% of total taxes paid by households. That’s a pretty progressive system – at least that’s what the Congressional Budget Office said when they provided these figures.
Mr. Bookman focuses on only one thing, and unfortunately it is a pretty shallow “analysis” and a weak conclusion http://www.cbo.gov/publications/collections/tax/2010/AverageFedTaxRates2007.pdf

Jimmy62

June 29th, 2011
8:44 am

CJ: Oh yeah, your grasp of economics is fantastic. Basically you are saying the cost of making an item (which does include taxes) has nothing to do with the price that item will be sold at. And that’s an absolutely ludicrous position to take.

Yes, they want to maximize profits to shareholders, that is their reason for existing. And sometimes they cannot pass the entire tax increase on to consumers because it would cause their sales to fall and reduce their profits. So they find a happy balance. And then next year when the government gets a bug up its butt and decides to change the tax rates again, the corporation has to adjust prices again. And this all costs more money. So then you have a company forced to make changes to their business not because of supply and demand and consumer needs, but because of the whims of politicians.

But overall for you to say a rise in the cost of an item will be reflected by shareholder profits and not at all by the price of item is one of the most ridiculous things I’ve ever read on here.

thomas

June 29th, 2011
8:44 am

Mark in mid-town

June 29th, 2011
8:36 am

Nice point since the payroll tax deductions are for specific programs, medicare and social security.

What say you Jay?

Seems as if the payroll tax is nothing more than a non-intrest bearing savings account.

Or is monies collected from SS and Medicare used to fund other government programs?

williebkind

June 29th, 2011
8:44 am

Every year the progressive liberals have problems paying for their slaves upkeep on the democratic plantation. We get into who pays what and how much they pay et…It is boring. Stop spending and the debt will decrease rapidly. I am a typical American, you can tax the rich guy but leave me alone. Now we have to define rich. Ask Sorros.

Aquagirl

June 29th, 2011
8:45 am

aqua girl – vis a vis ‘all life begins/ends with the government?

Who said that? Oh, yeah, Leg, in a diatribe about “libs” a mythical group to discuss when trying to avoid the topic.

I can tell you an actual existing human being (loose term) who blathers the “no corporate taxes” line and a programmed sheep who bleats this Boortzism. Lacking any decent response, Leg quickly flings together a flimsy straw man of “libs” and waves it about.

You can play with your strawman dolly all day long. Have a little tea party with it. No interest here. This isn’t talk radio, Bubba.

RAMBLE ON!!!

June 29th, 2011
8:45 am

From the title, I figured Jay was talking about King Obama’s Cabinet, and the rest of the Democrats on Capital Hill.

The Leg Lamp is a "major award".....

June 29th, 2011
8:45 am

Granny Godzilla
June 29th, 2011
8:42 am

BAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!! I believe you’ve submitted 7 posts and only one was on topic. At least Jay responded to one of my posts. Naturely it was negative, but it was a response nonetheless.

Using your words, “Thanks, but try to focus, ok?”

Jay

June 29th, 2011
8:48 am

Mark, at one point I would have said that the payroll taxes were indeed akin to paying into a 401-k. However, since many hundreds of billions of payroll-tax dollars have been “borrowed” over the years to fund general gov’t operations, I think that distinction is becoming somewhat moot.

As to the discussion about credits such as the Earned Income Tax Credit delivering “refunds” to people who don’t pay income taxes, that’s all correct. The EITC was initially a conservative idea to reward and encourage work rather than welfare, and was greatly expanded under Reagan. To get some idea of the income levels involved, a single person qualifies for the EITC only if he or she makes less than $13K.

bob

June 29th, 2011
8:48 am

Jay, the paroll tax is a penalty for responsible people and we lose the earning power of that money.
For the poor, it is their IRA and 401K rolled into one, they should pay it.

The Leg Lamp is a "major award".....

June 29th, 2011
8:48 am

Aquagirl
June 29th, 2011
8:45 am

Avoiding the topic? You were ending a rant and I merely change a few things and mirrored your rant.

By the way, how do you REALLY feel about Neal Boortz? :cool:

Steven Q. Stanley

June 29th, 2011
8:49 am

Half the country pays no income tax and we wonder why we are 14 trillion in debt. Time to stop with the class warfare and close all the loopholes on all Americans. Americans have almost unanimously demanded bigger government and higher spending, we should all pay for it. I am not wealthy, and I was also in the 1-2% of Americans who actually voted for smaller, less costly government, but I am willing to pay my share to avoid leaving this debt to my children.

Until we ignore the Rush Limbaughs and Jay Bookmans of the world with their demagoguery and class war fare we are doomed. Call your congressman and senators and demand they severely cut spending and significantly raise taxes. Especially if you have kids.

A Conservative Voice

June 29th, 2011
8:50 am

Hey Bookman, every “citizen” in this country is privileged to live here. Everyone, and I mean everyone should shoulder some of the tax burden over and above payroll taxes. Just because you only make 16K per year doesn’t mean you should be able to skip your responsibility. Lets have a 1% consumption tax to ensure that everyone pays……everyone, including tourists from abroad and particularly Mexico.

The Leg Lamp is a "major award".....

June 29th, 2011
8:52 am

Granny Godzilla
June 29th, 2011
8:49 am

“So …..you don’t think women should be able to defend themselves?”

Who said that? Ah, I see. Continuing to move the target when you have nothing. You’d be a terrible poker player because you’re all bluff.

Anyway, yes, women

thomas

June 29th, 2011
8:53 am

Jay

June 29th, 2011
8:48 am

Is it not also true that the same single person can make as much as $35,000 if they have 1 child? With that isn’t the maxiumu amoutn they are able to recive then like 3 grand?

Really people making 35k need another 3k from the government?

Or am I completely misunderstanding the information i am looking at about EITC?

The Leg Lamp is a "major award".....

June 29th, 2011
8:54 am

Oops, ended that last one a little too quickly.

Yes, women should be able to defend themselves and most are capable of doing so intelligently. You, on the other hand……..

Thomas

June 29th, 2011
8:54 am

Lets have a 1% consumption tax to ensure that everyone pays……

exactly

raise some on “high earners” cut some deductions, fine

Easy question is would you rather own a rental home and lease to a Section 8 renter or a person who has worked 10 years as a plumber. Skin in the game is the only way.

commoncents

June 29th, 2011
8:55 am

Left Wing Management @ 8:25
“So $250,000 isn’t “middle” in any sense unless you define middle as the middle 97 percent or so.

To the Koch brothers, who as we speak are in the process of buying this democracy, $250k is pretty small fish indeed.”

As compared to Soros, who is in the process of buying our courts?

Scooter (The Original)

June 29th, 2011
8:56 am

Those who showed INCOME of 2.18 Million no doubt purchased many expensive retail goods and would’ve paid a lot of tax under the FairTax. Along with all those drug dealers, shade tree mechanics and others who don’t report income. Additionally, the FairTax’s prebate would allow those current non-payers to remain non-payers and keep their payroll taxes, that’s a win for the poor. But it would return power to the people and take it away from our enlightened officials. The close minded resistance to its possibility leads me to believe many Americans now like to be controlled by government.

The Leg Lamp is a "major award".....

June 29th, 2011
8:56 am

What I find interesting about this whole debate is how the left automatically defaults to tax increases when we have a Congress (both parties are guilty) that cannot efficiently handle the money they’re already taking in.

Do you run your households this way? When your expenses exceed your income do you demand a pay raise so you won’t have to alter your present lifestyle?

Granny Godzilla

June 29th, 2011
8:56 am

The Leg Lamp is a “major award”…..

June 29th, 2011
8:37 am
Granny fan
June 29th, 2011
8:36 am

So now Granny Godzilla is posting under two names….

Not in years and years and years – Jay can verify – but that is really ironic soming from you

Rafe Hollister

June 29th, 2011
8:57 am

Payroll taxes (FicA) were established to fund SSA. Most of us realize that there is no SSA Trust Fund and the money is dumped into the general fund.

The problem is that most Americans think they are paying their FICA into a special fund, where it is accumulating and will be refunded to them as SS payments. They do not realize they are paying taxes and there act like they “have no skin in the game”. They vote to increase benefits and entitlements because they think someone else is paying the freight. Everyone needs to be required to pay some income tax, so establish a minimum federal income tax, even if it is $2. At least people would then take some interest in the stewardship of their contribution.

CJ

June 29th, 2011
8:57 am

Jimmy62,

What is the source of your confusion? Corporate income taxes come out of profits. Lower profits, lower taxes. No profits, no taxes. Surely we can agree on that much.

No company is going to raise prices because their tax rate went up when doing so reduces demand for their product or service such that profits go down or disappear. That would be cutting off its proverbial nose to spite it proverbial face.

With regard to this quote: “But overall for you to say a rise in the cost of an item will be reflected by shareholder profits and not at all by the price of item is one of the most ridiculous things I’ve ever read on here.” The rise in the cost of an item is not reflected by the price of the item? I have no idea what this gibberish means.

Gordon

June 29th, 2011
8:57 am

Is it unreasonable for everyone to have some “skin in the game?” If you pay no federal income tax, why would you every be against any proposal that costs the federal government money? Some should pay very little (3%?), but every earner should pay something.

On another subject, when talking about the Social Security, it is interesting that we tend to couple it with the federal government when talking about revenue, but pretend it is something separate when talking about expenses (i.e. the “trust fund”). When properly looking at Social Security as simply part of the federal government, one realizes that the trust fund is meaningless because it becomes money that the government owes itself.

Paul

June 29th, 2011
8:58 am

“3,000 “tax units” with incomes above $2.18 million paid no income tax. All in all, 446,000 “tax units” with incomes above $103,465 paid no income tax on that money, a figure that includes capital gains taxes.”

In the current Wonderland of definitions, correcting the narrowly-targeted deductions that lead to zero taxes for this segment is called, by the current orthodox Republicans, a ‘tax increase.”

So the soundbite wins, again. Until Nov 2012, that is.

I read some references to corporate taxes. June 27 of Newsweek had an interview with Pres Clinton, who noted that although America now has the second-highest tax rate in the world, the amount paid is nowhere near that, which is why he supports recommendations of Bowles-Simpson to lower the rate, reforming the tax code and broadening the base so all of them end up paying a reasonable amount on profits.

Left wing management

June 29th, 2011
8:58 am

A challenge to our right wing friends:

From Jay: Second, while the percentage of revenue raised through the personal income tax has remained relatively stable since World War II, the mix of revenue from other sources has shifted noticeably. Compared to 60 years ago, the payroll tax has tripled in importance as a revenue source, while the corporate income tax has fallen by two-thirds.

Just curious whether any of our Tea Party-inclined folks here find that their blood boils to hear that revenues from corporate taxes have fallen drastically even as jobs have been increasingly being shipped overseas.

Does that bother any of our resident conservatives here? Maybe just a little?

TallaDawg

June 29th, 2011
9:00 am

Stranger @ 8:34 – Small, local or regional companies, yes; large corporations, NO. You must be crazy, IF you are talking about any company large enough to be on the Fortune 1000. At least everyone, no matter their financial state, gets to vote (with the legal and constituitional exceptions noted). The managment of most large corporations only look after their SHORT -TERM profits and do not even really care about their own stockholders beyond a couple of years.

RB from Gwinnett

June 29th, 2011
9:00 am

“Most of them DO have skin in the game, Leg Lamp. That “skin” is merely acquired through the payroll tax rather than the income tax, a fact that you and others for some reason studiously ignore.”

Jay, you’re not begging for a payroll tax increase, you’re begging for an income tax increase. So, why do the 47% care about that? It means NOTHING to them. That’s the problem, Jay, and you know it.

Also, if the 450K who make more than you and pay no taxes have done something illegal to avoid paying taxes, try them and put them in jail. If they’ve followed the tax code and pay no taxes, why are you whining about them? If you don’t like the deductions they’re taking, whine to your congressmen about the tax code, but at least have the common decency to focus your poutrage in at the right people.

Jay

June 29th, 2011
9:01 am

If corporations don’t pay taxes, why do corporations pay billions of dollars to hire tax accountants, attorneys and lobbyists to lower the taxes that they allegedly don’t pay?

Truth

June 29th, 2011
9:02 am

Just more proof we need the Fair Tax

The Leg Lamp is a "major award".....

June 29th, 2011
9:02 am

Granny Godzilla
June 29th, 2011
8:56 am

“but that is really ironic soming from you”

soming?

Anyway, now who is using “crystal balls”? If you’re accusing me of using multiple names, then please provide those names. You’ll be wrong, as usual. Just endless accusations when you have no proof. Typical lib.

Paul

June 29th, 2011
9:04 am

CJ 8:39

“Boortz has persuaded his devoted listeners that all corporate income taxes are just passed on to consumers via higher prices.”

The flip side of that, according to the ‘free market rules’ we hear so much about, is that is costs go down prices go down accordingly? For those who say, ‘no, corporations will hire more people, etc” – I don’t belive the data would bear that out. What is evident for many corporations (example, Disney) is that when cuts are made top-tier compensation goes up.

The Leg Lamp is a "major award".....

June 29th, 2011
9:04 am

Jay
June 29th, 2011
9:01 am

I thought they “pay billions of dollars to hire tax accountants” to comply with Sarbanes/Oxley. :cool:

Gordon

June 29th, 2011
9:04 am

Maybe it’s time to end the charade and eliminate the payroll tax and raise the rates (and close the loopholes) on the general tax. Then everyone would understand what the real situation is with social security and everyone would be paying something, which might make more people care how their money was being spent in Washington. That would also do something liberals love, generate more revenue for the federal government, since there would be no cap like there is now on the OASDI part of Social Security.

Mighty Righty

June 29th, 2011
9:05 am

Did you har Harry Reids latest dumb remark? Old Harry said individuals who own “corporate jets” should be taxed at a higher rate. Typical Democrat. Harry, corporate jets are owned by corporations! Individuals own personal jets. Reminds me of the lefties who insist on connecting “McCarthyism” with the “House Un-American Activities Committee,”

schoolmarm

June 29th, 2011
9:05 am

We paid more in federal income taxes than I made as a teacher last year. I don’t mind paying my fair share, but at what point are others expected to take care of themselves? I pretty much work for free anyway. If my taxes are raised, there’s really not much point in my continuing to work is there?

The Leg Lamp is a "major award".....

June 29th, 2011
9:06 am

Left wing management
June 29th, 2011
8:58 am

So what is your solution to protect jobs, higher taxes?

thomas

June 29th, 2011
9:07 am

Jay

June 29th, 2011
9:01 am

To keep the tax burden down as low as possible. That way the increase they must charge the consumer is also smaller. With a smaller increase they run much less of a risk of losing their client base by charging too much for their product and/or service.

Apparently they feel as if it is better to spend alot of money in order to ensure they continue to make alot of profit.

Aquagirl

June 29th, 2011
9:07 am

You were ending a rant and I merely change a few things and mirrored your rant.

I named things that exist in the real world: corporations, Neal Boortz, his radio audience. You subbed a fictitious group that apparently scares the pants off of you. Why not something at least a little creative, like the Skittles-crapping unicorns?

By the way, how do you REALLY feel about Neal Boortz?

Actually I used to listen to him when he was entertaining. After going to 4 hours a day (and sadly enough, perhaps developing some early Alzheimers) he turned into a bore and a crank. But I never confused him with real news, he’s an entertainer.

Now, his talking points drones, I’ve never liked them. You can tell when the pod people show up, mumbling a catchphrase over and over thinking that it’s a brilliant, clever point that trumps any discussion. Uh, no. Only in Boortzland, where they reside. Problems are solved there with catchphrases and imaginary constructs, no questions asked.

poison pen

June 29th, 2011
9:08 am

Leg, be careful with Granny, she will ” Piffle ” you, or tell you ” your not nice “

(ir)Rational

June 29th, 2011
9:09 am

I just wish to point out that now we have liberals claiming that liberals are a “fictitious group.” Really? Or are they claiming that the government is a “fictitious group?”

CJ

June 29th, 2011
9:10 am

Gordon asked, is it unreasonable for everyone to have some “skin in the game?” Yes. It turns out that compassion for the poor is also good economics.

The people who aren’t paying taxes aren’t saving money either. Not a dime. They don’t have money to save.

My brother, for example, previously out of work when his employer went out of business, now makes $30,000 a year and has a 16 year old son. Every dime goes to keeping his head above water. His air conditioner has been permanently out for three years and he can’t afford to replace it (have you noticed how hot it gets). He has to borrow money from my parents when his car breaks down. He is living paycheck to paycheck.

Asking people in his situation to pay taxes is not only cruel, but it’s bad economics. We all agree that taking a dollar that will definitely be spent out of the economy is counterproductive. So taxing those who live paycheck to paycheck definitely hurts the economy.

In fact, one of the best ways to boost the economy is to help the poor and lower middle class keep more of their money–those living paycheck to paycheck (or worse) will undoubtedly spend it. That’s why the EITC, unemployment insurance, food stamps, etcetera are not only compassionate, but they’re great forms of stimulus for the economy. We all benefit.

AmVet

June 29th, 2011
9:10 am

If you take more from society than you contribute, then you shouldn’t get a vote.

What’s up with this incessant and demented desire by rightists to disallow the right to franchise? I find it beyond bizarre. (Actually Jed already addressed this – disallow any voters as long as they are not dead red, right?)

And my nomination for the Freudian slip of the day – We get into who pays what and how much they pay et…It is boring.

(I can picture fingers in ears, yelling, so as to not hear the ugly truth.)

The good news is that after three decades of getting clobbered themselves, some of the more enlightened cons are actually starting to drop out of the Flagellants Club.

And some of the truly brave new-age Republicans are starting to broach the subject of the massive giveaways and handouts available ONLY to the wealthy and to the artificial entities called corporations.

Welcome to the American plutocracy.

The Leg Lamp is a "major award".....

June 29th, 2011
9:11 am

Aquagirl
June 29th, 2011
9:07 am

“Skittles-crapping unicorns”

I don’t think I could come up with that one even if I were to take a hit of some bad acid.

Hmmmmmmmm

June 29th, 2011
9:11 am

A mind is such a terrible thing to waste… Jay, do you really believe any of the dribble that you write….

Paul

June 29th, 2011
9:11 am

Mighty Righty

Read an article while overseas (sorry I don’t have the link – would pick up a paper at the hotel and read the international section) describing the tremendous number of flights corporate jets made for conferences or meetings – that were right next to one of the homes owned by the CEO. If the flight hours for such exceed a certain level, it’s supposed to have tax implications. But oversight and reporting requirements are lacking and many CEOs mislead.

So I’ll give Sen Reid credit for a concept, even if the specifics of his words did not satisfy.

jms

June 29th, 2011
9:12 am

“I’m more intrigued by the fact that 3,000 ‘tax units’ with incomes above $2.18 million paid no income tax.”

You’re entitled to that but I’m more intrigued by the 62,939,000 tax units in the lowest two quintiles that paid no income tax. $16 a year from them would generate $1 billion. Everyone should have some skin in the game.

The Leg Lamp is a "major award".....

June 29th, 2011
9:14 am

jms
June 29th, 2011
9:12 am

“Everyone should have some skin in the game”

That’s what I’ve been saying, but Jay took me to task over it.

Paul

June 29th, 2011
9:14 am

AmVet

“If you take more from society than you contribute, then you shouldn’t get a vote.”

Actually, I find the concept when applied to nearly half a million of our wealthiest households rather bemusing…..

Soothsayer

June 29th, 2011
9:14 am

I see it’s time once again to b*tch and moan about taxes. How many here would like to receive a tax decrease? What if the federal government reduced spending to an extent that everyone’s taxes could be reduced?

Take a look at this chart. It simply boggles the mind.

To think that as recently as 1996 spent only $1.6 trillion in total! Even as recently as 2001 our total spending was less than $2 trillion. Now, in 2011 that number has grown to $3.8 trillion. Since 2000, the Pentagon’s budget has doubled. And that doesn’t include the extra for Iraq and Afghanistan.

In fact, we have increased our national debt from $5.2 trillion to $14.3 trillion in just 15 years. How much longer can this madness continue?

AmVet

June 29th, 2011
9:14 am

Welcome back, Paul.

How was Blokeland? USinUK told us you rendezvoused…

Granny Godzilla

June 29th, 2011
9:14 am

“corporate jets are owned by corporations! Individuals own personal jets”

ARe not corporations considered individuals now?

Isn’t that what the right wished for?

Is now a ggod time to say – be careful what you wish for?

(ir)Rational

June 29th, 2011
9:14 am

jms – Apparently, asking them to pay even a dollar is cruel, and will permanently sink the economy, so don’t look for that to ever happen. But hey, why should they pay? I mean, it is only fair that they reap the benefits without having to pay for it right? I mean, that is what we’re all looking for is fairness. Or have I been reading this blog for too long?

Keep Up the Good Fight!

June 29th, 2011
9:15 am

@@

June 29th, 2011
9:15 am

And how, pray tell, does jay intend to stop corporations from passing their tax burden onto the consumer? Without an answer to that question, this discussion goes nowhere with me.

If the Bush tax cuts benefitted only the rich, as Democrats have been claiming for years, why are they now saying that letting ALL the tax cuts expire will hurt the middle class? Which is it: Did the Bush tax cuts help the middle class, or didn’t they?

EVERYONE got a tax cut!!!!!

Raise taxes on business and our costs of engaging with business goes up.

0311/0317 - 1811/1801

June 29th, 2011
9:17 am

Jay:

How much do you pay ?

olderandwiser49

June 29th, 2011
9:17 am

Your illustration simply points out what most Americans already know – the tax system is badly flawed. It is past time for our government to start giving SERIOUS consideration to a flat tax applicable to every person (regardless of income) and every company. No more deductions, write-offs, tax shelters, or low-income/10 dependents issues. Our tax book would be two pages long. Page 1 would tell you to fill in the blanks on Page 2, and where to mail your return. Page 2 would have three blanks: Total Income X Flat Tax Rate = Tax for the year. Not only will this save the government a ton of money by reducing the IRS and its associated paperwork by 90%, it will also spread the tax burden to all entities, including those who now pay nothing but avail themselves of all the services. It will also increase government revenue, and make tax income amounts predictable enough that even the Democrats might finally be able to propose a budget!

Get It Right

June 29th, 2011
9:17 am

Important point – Jay is talking about Income Tax. Many of those 3,000 “tax units” did not have a job that paid an income, thus, no incomve tax. They made money from investments.

td

June 29th, 2011
9:18 am

“More than half of those non-paying units make less than $16,812″

And how much Federal benefits do these people also receive? Food Stamps, TANF, Medicaid, WIC, Low income Tax Credit, Low income energy assistance, Section 8 housing. Since most of these are single mothers then non taxed Child support. How much is all of this free benefits worth per year?

Gordon

June 29th, 2011
9:18 am

CJ@9:10,

Good post. You make some good points. But I wonder what percentage of the pool spend every dime to keep their heads above water. This points to a consumption based tax, where if you really are spending your money that way you pay no tax, but if you aren’t you do pay tax. Maybe your brother and others like him could pay 3% federal income tax, but no sales tax on food, rent, and other basic neccesities to make up for it.

BADA BING

June 29th, 2011
9:18 am

Stop all attempts to increase taxes, put your laser focus on JOBS, then you will have more ‘tax units’ making more ‘tax dollars’. With a job, these ‘units’ will be able to support their ‘family unit’.

Jay

June 29th, 2011
9:18 am

Paul, welcome back. USinUK was regaling us with stories of your London meetup earlier.

As to corporate taxes, this year they will amount to 1.3 percent of our GDP. That’s the lowest of any of the 34 major industrialized countries.

some guy

June 29th, 2011
9:20 am

More liberal bull crap to try to raise taxes. Last year I got caught in AMT and had to write a hefty check to the IRS.

Adam

June 29th, 2011
9:21 am

Thomas: and are in effect paid by the fed to work.

And if you stopped that, you would hamper job creation. Right? Because then it would be more beneficial for them to be on welfare or unemployment, which is just so dadgum easy to get doncha know?

Uncle Jed: Every citizen shouls have “skin in the game”,

While I agree with how you qualified this later, this statement here is part of the problem, because of how it is often qualified by others to mean the lower incomes should pay more and the upper incomes should have their taxes cut. Sometimes this is even disguised as “FairTax” or flat tax ideas, names that don’t seem to cause people to react the same way, but nonetheless cause an unfair burden on the lower incomes versus the higher.

Leg Lamp: Why not all?

The problem is not that there are some who dont’ have skin in the game, the problem is that those that do have skin in the game have not put in enough. And the ones who don’t, well, according to this report those are either people who avoid taxes entirely by not having any income tax liability AND no payroll taxes, which can only occur if you are in upper income with amazing tax professionals, or if you can’t work and are probably homeless.

As to the article itself, this clearly shows the corporate taxes in America are NOT “the worst in the world.” So get off it, if you still think that.

Jeffrey

June 29th, 2011
9:21 am

If our system was actually “for the people” as opposed to for elected officials and major lobbyist, perhaps they would provide an outside audited analysis of all options including taxation of what we spend vs what we make, flat tax, elimination of IRS et al. Perhaps this will put taxpayers in better position to make informed decisions as opposed to following party dogma which so clearly reflects motives via sales pitches to protect the status quo. Speaking from experience, many of those in the 2% of high wage earners have no issue paying higher taxes if we felt more value was obtained by Washington for every dollar spent. Until Washington shows respect for our tax revenues regardless of who pays, many (not all) “rich” folks will balk.

Keep Up the Good Fight!

June 29th, 2011
9:23 am

Poor corporations having to pass their tax burdens on to consumers….let’s see. If your income is $17,000 a year, most of that is probably spent on food and shelter. We all can’t have $1 million dollar accounts at Tiffany’s. Do I feel bad that if you spend, oh say, $750,000 on a diamond necklace, part of that may be tax. Or if you by a private plane, then part of that is tax. Tough luck.

Jay

June 29th, 2011
9:25 am

Get It Right got it wrong.

The income tax figures INCLUDE capital gains taxes on investments, etc.

BADA BING

June 29th, 2011
9:25 am

Why more tax money. The ‘brainless units’ (politicians) will just waste more.

willie lynch

June 29th, 2011
9:25 am

So let’s see if I have this right. Real wages have been stagnant for almost 40 years. Corporations are paying less taxes than ever. Employees are paying more of their earnings in payroll taxes.

Sounds like the corporations are eating their cake too. They haven’t raised wages and they’ve lowered their own share of the tax obligation. Must be great to have lobbyists.

Paul

June 29th, 2011
9:25 am

AmVet

Thanks. It was wonderful. Beautiful scenery, knowledgeable guides, learned lots.

Yes, USinUK and I had the first ever Bookmania reunion. First thing we did was head for a pub and raise a toast to Jay and the Bookmaniacs. I must say, she’s much as I pictured her from the blog – a rich and interesting background, wonderful conversationalist, fun to be with – and most gracious. Was on the trip with my wife, sister and brother-in-law. It’s reflective of her character that much of our conversation did not dwell upon the blog, personalities and politics, but was a wonderful few hours of getting to know another person.

I’m not home yet – had a direct flight into Houston so will be driving up to DFW later this morning.

And with the exception of the occasional morning paper, it was most refreshing to not hear the incessant political drumbeat. What was more amazing was, I didn’t feel any pangs of withdrawal!

Jay

Heartful thanks to you for facilitating our meet across the pond.

Adam

June 29th, 2011
9:26 am

Leg Lamp: Do you run your households this way? When your expenses exceed your income do you demand a pay raise so you won’t have to alter your present lifestyle?

Better question: When you are spending LESS than you take in, do you ask for a pay cut? Well, that’s what the government did.

You guys cut taxes too much. We need to hit the reset button on that. In addition, we also need to cut back spending. But trying to do one and not the other isn’t going to work. What about ATTACK THE PROBLEM FROM BOTH ANGLES do you not UNDERSTAND?

AmVet

June 29th, 2011
9:28 am

Two thoughts on these corproate parasites (Hat tip Lil BB).

Back when this country was rockin’ and rollin’ after WWII, they actually paid their fair share. And wonder of wonders! They weren’t devastated then by an appropriate tax burden.

Secondly, for three decades we’ve all witnessed the results of the ever burgeoning American Corporatocracy, whereby the purveyors of HUGE money have gotten pretty much everything they’ve asked for – most of it at the expense of you and me.

Aided and abetted by these contrived, endless and increasing giveaways, handouts, subsides, loopholes, tax “shelters”, bailouts and generally cooking of the books. You tell me. Look around and describe exactly just how swimmingly that has worked out for your average American family.

Who is worse off than it was in the 1980s…

Quit being little Dick Cheneys. (”Nobody saw this coming.”) This very scenario has been forewarned repeatedly by people MUCH smarter and infinitely more ethical than him, going all the way back to Thomas Jefferson…

Dan

June 29th, 2011
9:29 am

I am surprised to see payroll taxes as such a large part, I suspect that means it includes the portion the company matches, in other words half would be the companies contribution.

real john

June 29th, 2011
9:29 am

Ahhh. the same ole class warfare article’s libs love. What the libs forget to mention is the free (or almost free) Medicaid, food stamps, welfare checks that many of these people also receive…

Why is it so hard for libs to understand…the government was not formed to “take care” of everyone. Its just not substainable. What is happening in Europe IS going to happen here in the U.S. and much worse unless major changes are made.

Everyone laughed at Bush when he tried to push the privatized accounts for Social Security. Like it or not, Bush’s and Paul Ryan’s, voucher type programs WILL be the future of the U.S. for Medicare and Social Security. Every Republican, Democrat, and economist that I have read, agree on one thing; these programs cannot contiue as they currently are. Every time the Republicans attempt to have an adult conversation about the changes that HAVE TO be made, the libs run commercials pushing granny off a cliff to scary voters to death…By doing this the libs continue to make the situation worse, and will end up hurting the people the SAY they care about the most..

Also Jay, so you think its a good idea to raise our corporate tax even more? They I’m SURE that will help bring more jobs in. Why do libs not understand, if you continue to talk about raising taxes, businesses are not going to hire. Many businesses are sitting on the sidelines because all the libs do is complain that they aren’t paying enough in taxes. Why should they hire more people when they are also getting kicked in the stomach by the Democrats.

Poor, Poor, Pitiful Thee

June 29th, 2011
9:30 am

My child has joined the ranks of the employed this summer by working part-time for minimum wage at a grocery store in our little community of 99% white, 76% Republican occupants. So far it has truly been an eye-opening experience — who would have ever guessed there were so many tall and short, fat and skinny, married and divorced white folks relying on food stamps, day after day, week after week, month after month. I can imagine the grief this must cause any Republican to see so many people living off of other’s hard-earned money. And to think that my child has to bear witness to that while toiling away to save up money to help pay for college. I expect to hear any day now that it is simply terrible that no income taxes are being deducted and only a paltry amount of payroll tax. My poor child really needs to contribute more.

If you ship our jobs overseas - you pay!

June 29th, 2011
9:30 am

We need to take a look at the corporations that ship their jobs overseas and tax them twice the amount! Why are you beating a dead horse about low income people paying taxes when corporations don’t? I am a conservative, so I am not for ANYONE getting away with no taxes, but there is a heck of lot better chance of getting the money from the corporations.

poison pen

June 29th, 2011
9:30 am

BADA BING

” Why more tax money. The ‘brainless units’ (politicians) will just waste more. ”

Bada, exactly what I have said many times on this post, however the libs just can’t comprehend that concept.

rk

June 29th, 2011
9:32 am

where’s the comparison on entitlement spending for these low income earners today vs. 1951?

James

June 29th, 2011
9:34 am

In general terms from $100.00 of payroll paid out by corporations average wage earners receive 59% ($59.00) and the government receives 41% ($41.00). add property taxes, sales taxes etc. I think we need to raise taxes and increase the size of our government. To our government ” take you hands out of my pockets”

Corp. Employee Fed Gov. St. Gov.
Gross Payroll $100.00
SSTAX ($6.20) ($4.20) $10.40
Medi ($1.45) ($1.45) $2.90
Futa ($8.00) $8.00
Suta ($3.00) $3.00
Fed IT ($10.30) $10.30
ST IT ($5.49) $5.49
Net $59.91 $31.60 $8.49

Hmmmmmmmm

June 29th, 2011
9:35 am

No matter what you call it, payroll tax, income tax, if you work in this country for a legite business, you PAY taxes…. You pay taxes to a corrupt and broken political system. A political system that pits the left vs. the right and laughs all the way to the bank… Pathetic..

CJ

June 29th, 2011
9:35 am

Gordon,

I hear what you’re saying.

For the record, there are two ways of thinking behind a progressive income tax system in which the poor pay nothing or very little:

1. It’s good economics…Money that will be spent stays in the economy (poor and working class). Taxes are limited to taxes on income that is less likely to be spent. Taking money household surplus, so to speak, and injecting it directly back into the economy isn’t the goal of government. But if you have to tax, that is the best way to do it. That’s why Republicans are wrong when they claim that raising taxes on incomes over $250,000 will hurt the economy. Most of the money that would be taxed, isn’t going into our economy.

2. Decades before Karl Marx was born, Adam Smith wrote that progressive taxes make sense because those with higher incomes are benefiting the most from government products and services. So he argues that if two people use the same highway to get to work, the guy who makes the most is benefiting the most from that highway.

The point of progressive income taxes isn’t to punish the rich. It’s to apply a tax that raises enough revenues in a way that makes the most economic sense.

Left wing management

June 29th, 2011
9:35 am

Leg lamp: “So what is your solution to protect jobs, higher taxes?”

The situation is so deeply structural that no single adjustment in a tax rate here or there is going to turn it around. But as a practical matter I do believe that we could pull back from the fiscal cliff we are currently at simply by allowing the disastrous and fiscally ruinous Bush tax cuts to expire — on all brackets.

But on a more general level, and at a minimum, we must confront the simple fact — which will be very traumatic for many Americans — that our brand of shareholder capitalism (as compared to the “shareholder” capitalism of say a Germany has put us on an utterly ruinous path.

Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)

June 29th, 2011
9:36 am

Well, I see Bookman’s back to the Wealth Envy again after a little time out to try and make us get gay married.

All I know is I pay taxes right out of my paycheck. It says so right on the stub. It ain’t my fault if I get all of it back and then some, thanks to something they call EIC. I never wrote the tax laws.

Anyhow, I work for a living. Unlike that woman with two kids I saw in WalMart last night. She was wearing these fancy clothes and a whole bunch of jewelry and the kids were in real high price blue jeans and Gucci loafers. I was suprized when she pulled out a wad of food stamps to pay for the fancy steaks and lobsters she bought. When I followed her out of the store she got into a Cadillac Escalade and drove away.

That’s what’s wrong with this country. Not the corps. paying low taxes or a few hundred thousand rich people paying not a penny. We got to get rid of these Entitlements.

That’s my opinion and it’s very true. Have a good day everybody.

Recon (2nd.and 3rd.)

June 29th, 2011
9:36 am

Don’t raise taxes on anyone. Cut spending, reform entitlements and repeal ObamaCare as we sure don’t need another entitlement.

lynnie gal

June 29th, 2011
9:37 am

Any time you mention taking away those Bush tax cuts from the wealthy, the right wing cries, “Class Warfare!” or “Wealth Envy!” But they find no conflict of conscience to attack the poor and elderly for not “paying taxes.” This is class war alright. It’s obvious to all who open their eyes to see. Republicans are advocates for the wealthy only. It’s always been that way, and is even more pronounced today.

poison pen

June 29th, 2011
9:37 am

Poor Poor, Pitiful Thee,

Why is your child taking away jobs from those people on Welfare, foodstamps, unemployment and ADC.

Keep Up the Good Fight!

June 29th, 2011
9:37 am

Why do millionaires get mortgage deductions while the rant is on to cut Medicare for seniors. Let’s cut the millionaire entitlements.

markey mark

June 29th, 2011
9:38 am

For all of you discussing corporations and taxes….I seem to remember that the New England states had a thriving yacht building industry some years ago. Then, the powers that be passed a “luxury tax” on yachts in this country. Today, most yachts are built in England, New Zealand, and Europe. Wonder how many blue collar workers that little plan threw out of work? (the rich just buy ‘em, they don’t build ‘em). Another case of (a) be careful what you wish for, and (b) the law of unintended consequences….

Aquagirl

June 29th, 2011
9:39 am

I don’t think I could come up with that one even if I were to take a hit of some bad acid.

See? It’d probably enhance your posts. :)

The Leg Lamp is a "major award".....

June 29th, 2011
9:40 am

Adam
June 29th, 2011
9:26 am

Wow, ending with ALL CAPS. Yeah, hat really drives home the point. :roll:

“You guys cut taxes too much”. You guys? Sorry, that dog won’t hunt. I’ve been paying taxes since Nixon. What entitlements have I received? Nada. What entitlements have I expected to date? Nada.

As far as cutting taxes too much, if Congress gives a tax cut that, for arguments sake, puts us in a position that we’re spending more than what we’re taking in, then I believe they have the obligation to reduce spending accordingly.

WE DID NOT GET IN THIS MESS BY UNDER TAXING, WE GOT IN TO THIS MESS BY OVERSPENDING. WHAT PART OF THIS DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND? (sorry for the all caps).

Left wing management

June 29th, 2011
9:40 am

Bada Bing: “Why more tax money. The ‘brainless units’ (politicians) will just waste more.”

The tendency to categorically dismiss all government use of revenue from taxation as “waste” is in my view a rather infantile posture to take. I’m quite sure that such a mentality would be just as likely to be up in arms in the event that all the services from which we benefit daily and which flow directly from tax revenues — functioning roads, schools, basic law enforcement — were to go away, leaving us in a Hobbesian state of nature.

(ir)Rational

June 29th, 2011
9:40 am

Recon – that makes too much sense. And you better leave my food stamps and Section 8 housing alone! How am I going to keep my iPhone and my Benz if I got to pay for my own food and a place to live?

poison pen

June 29th, 2011
9:40 am

Keep up, because they made the laws. They also get to deduct 2 houses if they own 2 and most do.

real john

June 29th, 2011
9:41 am

Keep Up the Good Fight!

Fine you want to cut mortgage deductions for the rich, then cut them for ALL. That’s only fair, right? Be careful what you wish for. Just like the Bush (cough, cough Obama) tax cuts. 95% of Americans are actually getting a cut, which probably means for just about everyone on this board. I wonder what you think about those cuts, if you went back and saw just how much it has saved YOU in taxes the last few years…hmmmmm, I don’t see many Democrats writing extra checks to the IRS for the difference

jj

June 29th, 2011
9:41 am

Just asking because I don’t know the answer.
When they net out the lowest 10%-20% and say in essence they get cash back above and beyone anything witheld are they including things like ADC, Food Stamps (now called SNAP so as not to offend anyone) housing allowances and any other fed program available to them?

ty webb

June 29th, 2011
9:41 am

“…to cut Medicare for seniors.’

come on, you forgot the whole “as we know it” crap. Nonetheless, such a statement is still a bunch of BS…with or without that inane qualifier.

Keep Up the Good Fight!

June 29th, 2011
9:43 am

Why PP, we agree. The tax lobbyists and lawmakers have given the millionaires a lot of entitlements that the family making $17k a year will never see. Let’s cut those entitlements.

(ir)Rational….Don’t worry, I am sure your shopping trips to the Whole Foods for the liquor will continue.

Misty Fyed

June 29th, 2011
9:44 am

Tax them….Tax them all I say…No more shelters for the rich…No more earned income tax credits for the poor. If you live here, you owe a tax. If you have an income; pay a percentage. If you have no income; you owe a flat set fee. If our representatives pass new spending, they pass a new tax to pay for it. A tax that is shared among all citizens, not just target groups.

AmVet

June 29th, 2011
9:44 am

“Also Jay, so you think its a good idea to raise incessantly lower our corporate tax burden even more? As we’ve been doing for decades? They I’m SURE that will help bring more jobs in. Which as you can see has created so many more really good jobs. Why do libs not understand, if you continue to talk about raising taxes, businesses are not going to hire. know it is just that – talk. In this regard, our elected reps now work for the business interests, not us. Many businesses are sitting on the sidelines because all the libs do is complain that they aren’t paying enough in taxes they know they can still reap record, massive profits by doing next to nothing for employees, consumers, taxpayers and shareholders. Why should they hire more people when they are also getting kicked in the stomach by the Democrats. can make more money than ever by using creative bookkeeping?

DwayneL

June 29th, 2011
9:44 am

Exactly, the ones that already don’t pay taxes are the ones screaming on the successful people to pay more taxes! The system is flawed and as long as these people live off the govt. they will continue to support the demcocrats that keep supporting them, even though it’s bankrupting this country.

Dan

June 29th, 2011
9:46 am

@lynnie people aren’t attacking the poor for not paying, they are simply pointing how inane it is to say the “rich” don’t pay their “fair” share, when there is already a hugely progressive tax sytem and a large segment that pays little or nothing. Furthermore even if you taxed the top 1% at 95% you wouldn’t dent the deficit. Spending cuts, and there is a plethora of wasteful unnecessary spending, is the only way to resolve the debt issue

(ir)Rational

June 29th, 2011
9:46 am

Keep – not really relevant, but I don’t shop at Whole Foods and I don’t drink. But thanks for that useless tidbit.

matrixband

June 29th, 2011
9:46 am

I wonder how many of the “Tax units” are, for instance, teenagers or college students, who make a bit of $$$$, pay their payroll taxes, but make WAY too little to pay taxes. For instance, on my block, there are probably more tax returns filed that are of that “tiny income-teen-student” category than there are “real” income earners, because so many people file on return for a couple, but a single return for each of their kids???
It’s gotta skew the data somehow, but I wonder how much?
EK

Left wing management

June 29th, 2011
9:47 am

Keep: “Why do millionaires get mortgage deductions while the rant is on to cut Medicare for seniors. Let’s cut the millionaire entitlements.”

It’s too late for such simple appeals to “common sense” justice as that. That’s so 20th C now. The world we live in now is one in which financial might makes right and if you ask why you’re told to shush and that that’s just how it is. History is a reasonable process after all and those who are at the top of the heap at this late stage must be there for a reason don’t you know?

Poor, Poor, Pitiful Thee

June 29th, 2011
9:47 am

Why is your child taking away jobs from those people on Welfare, foodstamps, unemployment and ADC.

They’re still hiring, poison, so no job has been taken away from anyone.

Keep Up the Good Fight!

June 29th, 2011
9:49 am

real john, well at least you acknowledge the entitlements you are getting. We can cut all the deduction or cap it at a level for everyone if there are solid policies behind it (let’s remember the housing industry has a lot of lobbyists and does drive a lot of Georgia’s economy).

But as to the continued silliness of “you can write a check”, yep I can. But really, your response to your perceived unfairness about unequal taxes is that some others can sacrifice more to pay for you. So much for shared sacrifice. In your world its everyone must sacrifice for you.

Jay

June 29th, 2011
9:50 am

Matrix, those who are claimed by others as dependents are not included in “tax units” for this purpose.

Peadawg

June 29th, 2011
9:51 am

““Why do millionaires get mortgage deductions while the rant is on to cut Medicare for seniors. Let’s cut the millionaire entitlements.””

And I say do both.

godless heathen

June 29th, 2011
9:52 am

Jay, They hire those tax lawyers and accountants so that the shareholders and customers don’t pay anymore taxes than the laws require. The terms “Return on Investment” and “Competitive pricing” mean anything.

Funny thing is when you libs stick it to the corporations like you want to do, you are in fact hurting your very own investments, 401ks, money markets, and pension funds. Look at who actually owns the stock in these corps. Most of it is owned by the very people you claim to be looking out for – working Americans.

Keep Up the Good Fight!

June 29th, 2011
9:52 am

(ir)Rational…and I doubt you live in Section 8 housing and that you use food stamps to pay for your iPhone and your Benz…but that did not stop you from posting those lies. Thanks for those useless lies.

Adam

June 29th, 2011
9:53 am

Leg Lamp: “You guys cut taxes too much”. You guys? Sorry, that dog won’t hunt. I’ve been paying taxes since Nixon. What entitlements have I received? Nada. What entitlements have I expected to date? Nada.

Way to miss the point. “You guys” as in Republicans, who went hog wild for tax cuts, as in this is what you voted for (feel better now that I used bold instead of caps? :D )

Your entitlement came in the form of a tax stimulus check from Bush, btw.

As far as cutting taxes too much, if Congress gives a tax cut that, for arguments sake, puts us in a position that we’re spending more than what we’re taking in, then I believe they have the obligation to reduce spending accordingly.

Starve the Beast theory? Drown the economy in a bathtub? Yes I know you didn’t say these things, but come on. You’re basically saying that you would run your household like this:

1) Household got spending under control, has some debt, but is taking in more than it is spending.
2) Household says “Let’s ask for a pay cut, so we can encourage ourselves to spend less and produce more.” One member of the household tells all his friends that his real plan is to make sure the Household spends even less, by getting the pay cut in the first place.
3) Household debt starts spiraling out of control. In order to attempt to fix the problem, they incur more debt to get ahead of some bills, with the hope that one day their boss will just give them the wage they had before. Not more, or anything, just what they had before.
4) The boss, of course, says once the money is taken away he can’t give it back to you, of course. Well, maybe in 10 years… no you’ll have to wait 2 more… maybe. Oh and btw unless you agree to this I will make sure you default on all your debt and your house gets foreclosed on.
5) Household, still barely managing to hold its head above water, does manage to cut spending back as much as possible without completely starving the children (though a couple of them look thinner than they should and one has died).
6) Household is hoping beyond hope that in one more year, they will get their original wage back and might be able to pay more on some of this debt, but boss is still inserting himself into their personal lives and threatening not to reset the wage back unless they cut more of their household spending.

This, of course, is a more accurate depiction of the government as household, even though it makes no sense in the real world to make the comparison at all. But there you go.

WE DID NOT GET IN THIS MESS BY UNDER TAXING, WE GOT IN TO THIS MESS BY OVERSPENDING. WHAT PART OF THIS DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND?

THE PART WHERE IT’S NOT TRUE, JERK.

The Leg Lamp is a "major award".....

June 29th, 2011
9:54 am

Left wing management
June 29th, 2011
9:35 am

You’ve got to be kidding. Eliminating the “Bush tax cuts for the rich” would generate just how much income each year? We’re $14 trillion in debt! Also, why didn’t Obama end the “Bush tax cuts for the rich” as promised?

Anyway, I will support modest tax increases if, and only if, spending is cut 5-fold.

Keep Up the Good Fight!

June 29th, 2011
9:56 am

Adam, I suppose you don’t understand “I did not get fat by over-eating, I got fat by under exercising” either….. :P :D The Cons semantics are just absurd.

Ralph

June 29th, 2011
9:57 am

Wow this is serious…

(ir)Rational

June 29th, 2011
9:58 am

You understand the concepts of sarcasm and satire, right Keep?

But to be honest with you, no I don’t live in Section 8 Housing, don’t use food stamps and actually don’t drive a Benz. I work 40-50 hours a week, and haven’t received a raise in a few years. I live paycheck to paycheck, and have been reducing my expenditures so that I can cover everything I owe with my paycheck. I stopped shopping at Publix because it is expensive and started going to Aldi. Stopped eating out, started cooking more. Canceled my cable because it was expensive and now read all my news online. I am budgeting, if I can do it, maybe the government should try it. As somebody pointed out, if my expenses go up, I don’t go to my boss and tell him to give me more money, I budget.

waterstim

June 29th, 2011
9:58 am

EVERYONE SHOULD PAY SOMETHING. EVERYONE.

Chris

June 29th, 2011
9:59 am

Jay…The payroll tax is paid 2/3 by the employer and 1/3 by the employee. So yeah the “little people pay some of their freight, but mostly it is on the backs of the employer.

Chris

June 29th, 2011
10:00 am

jj— all those extra perks, like food stamps, etc are ON TOP of the working credits that end up SENDING income to the lower classes.

Gordon

June 29th, 2011
10:01 am

CJ,

Thanks for your response. I do agree with the progressive tax, and always have. Higher income earners should pay more, and pay a higher percentage. My concern is that I fell 45% is a very high number for people who pay no federal income tax at all. I think it “Balkanizes” the population into those who feel they are contributing and those who don’t. I say this understanding that 1) most who don’t pay federal income tax do pay the payroll tax, but the perception there for most people is that they are saving for their own retirement, and 2) most of those who currently do not pay federal income tax do in fact contribute to our society.

I favor lower rates, fewer loopholes, and a much simpler system that has more participants, with allowances made to make up for people like your brother who spend their money constructively. One such allowance could be lower rate on the first 20,000 of income on the payroll tax, or perhaps combining the payroll tax and income tax together.

Jay

June 29th, 2011
10:02 am

Chris, I believe the payroll tax is 50/50, and economists classify even the amount technically paid by the employer as a tax on the person’s labor, which it is.

Keep Up the Good Fight!

June 29th, 2011
10:02 am

waterstim…Everyone

How much should babies pay? How about those who make no income? Why those little girls on the corner selling lemonade–how much should they pay?

Soothsayer

June 29th, 2011
10:03 am

James @ 9:34: your FUTA calculation is wrong, it should be $0.80. FUTA is paid by the employer, it does not come out of your check. Since FUTA is only payable on the first $7,000 of an employee’s salary each year the maximum amount per employee, per year is $56.

Your SUTA calculation should be $2.70 which again, is paid by the employer. SUTA is payable on the first $8,500 of each employee’s salary per year. Or a maximum of $229.50 (at the standard 2.7% rate — some pay far less) per year. Once again, this tax is paid by the employer not the employee.

Also the employer’s portion of SS & MC does not come out of the employee’s paycheck, it is paid by the employers.

The federal and state income tax withholding could literally be anything based on the employee’s number of dependents, income etc. So you cannot make a blanket statement with regard to withholding.

AmVet

June 29th, 2011
10:03 am

Paul, I knew you two would have a wonderful time. (Must have something to do with the fact that there were wonderful people involved!) One day, I would love to see a Bookman gathering here in Hotlanta, where we could break bread together (or just have a few drinks) and enjoy each others company away from the “You suck! No, you do!” horseplay here!

Adam

June 29th, 2011
10:03 am

Keep Up: Good analogy. To stop being fat faster, one would think the best solution is to eat less AND exercise more, while making sure that you get the proper amount and types of food while exercising.

Or, you could JUST exercise (spending cuts only), while blaming your eating habits on the person who used to run your household, who happens to be fatter than you (Spending and tax levels of 2001-2008). And then, when someone suggests maybe you should also eat a little bit more of one thing (tax the rich) while exercising more properly (reasonable spending cuts) because studies show (economists agree) that will produce better and faster results, you just scoff at them and do the wrong kind of exercises (cut Medicare) while eating the wrong kind of food (more tax cuts for the rich while increasing tax burden on the poor).

Adam

June 29th, 2011
10:06 am

(ir)Rational: As somebody pointed out, if my expenses go up, I don’t go to my boss and tell him to give me more money, I budget.

Ok, but would you go to your boss and ask for a pay cut if you were taking in more than you were spending? Would you, after years of spending more than you are taking in after the first request of a pay cut, ask for ANOTHER pay cut?

The Leg Lamp is a "major award".....

June 29th, 2011
10:08 am

Adam
June 29th, 2011
9:53 am

Ha! Ending your argument by calling names. Classic lib approach.

Your example regarding asking for a pay cut is ridiculous, but hey, anything goes in your left leaning world.

The “cut back on what you cannot pay for” concept is very elementary. So simple even a caveman could figure it out (sorry GEICO). Actually, it’s so simple my 11 year old niece understands it. Her allowance must equal or be greater than what she can spend.

What do you think retirees do? Maybe at retirement they were earning $70K per year. Unless they lived well below their means, which Congress cannot seem to do (notice I didn’t identify one party), then they will more than likely have to cut back on what they spend when retired. They seem to get it. At least my parents did. My 11 year old niece seems to get it. For the life of me I cannot understand why liberals cannot get it.

Mighty Righty

June 29th, 2011
10:08 am

As long as we give benefits to non tax payers the non tax payers will gladly take those benefits and beg for more. I call them the moocher class. We tax payers have allowed a moocher class to be created by our politician. The moocher class is growing and is at this time almost irreversible. Jay and his Democrat run media friends will say that the moochers pay taxes in the form of payroll taxes. However, the moochers receive benefits specificly tied to those taxes in the form of Social Security, and medicare and in fact they most likely will receive far more than they pay in. Who among us would not accept freebies if offered? Free food? Why not? Free lottery tickets? Why mot? Free utilities? Why not? Free clothes? Why not? How about a big screen tv or maybe a new Mercedes? Why not? Free Health Care? Why not? Where does it end? When the 46% becomes 56% our life as we know it will end. Our founders knew this would eventually happen. The looney left likes to talk about the greed of the evil rich. Believe me, the greed of the evil rich will not destroy this nation. We will be destroyed by the greed of the poor.

Bosch

June 29th, 2011
10:08 am

“If you take more from society than you contribute, then you shouldn’t get a vote.”

Why do these people hate democracy?

(ir)Rational

June 29th, 2011
10:10 am

So, when taxes were cut, Adam, did tax revenues go down? Cause that seems to be the basis of your argument. I’ll go ahead and answer the question for you, they didn’t, they went up.

(ir)Rational

June 29th, 2011
10:10 am

Bosch – why do people mistakenly think we live in a democracy?

The Leg Lamp is a "major award".....

June 29th, 2011
10:11 am

Adam
June 29th, 2011
10:03 am

No, no, no. You got it all wrong. Fat liberals are “victims” of companies like McDonalds who force them to eat multiple Big Macs everyday, thus opening the door for huge lawsuits that seek to make things “fair”. :lol:

markey mark

June 29th, 2011
10:12 am

THE PART WHERE IT’S NOT TRUE, JERK.

and that is why I rarely post on this blog anymore….the lack of civility. Jay, I thought you had rules of behavior here…..

melvinowens

June 29th, 2011
10:13 am

only in this country is there a problem with the wealthy bearing the brunt of the tax burden. in my opinion, millionaires should not be receiving tax refunds.

Jack

June 29th, 2011
10:13 am

Granny prepares tax returns for all income levels. That’s how she knows about all this stuff. And Bookman’s liberal squeal is simply another suggestion that we should take from the rich and give to the poor.

AmVet

June 29th, 2011
10:14 am

(ir)Rational, because we do?

Jay

June 29th, 2011
10:14 am

“So, when taxes were cut, Adam, did tax revenues go down?”

I’ll answer your question for you, (ir)Rational. Yes, they went down.

uhoh

June 29th, 2011
10:15 am

Corps collect tax, they don’t pay tax. For the APS students in the bunch, if you want the prices of goods and services to go up, tax the corps more. If you want corps to be more competitive in the world markets and add more jobs because business is better, don’t tax the corps.

Ivan

June 29th, 2011
10:15 am

“Let the call to raise taxes on the poor, the elderly on fixed income and lower-income earners begin.”

Jay, You should take it up with the left. They’re the ones calling for tax increases.

thomas

June 29th, 2011
10:15 am

markey mark

June 29th, 2011
10:12 am

Different posters have different rules!

The Leg Lamp is a "major award".....

June 29th, 2011
10:15 am

markey mark
June 29th, 2011
10:12 am

I didn’t mind him calling me a name. It just shows the true colors of the left.

thomas

June 29th, 2011
10:17 am

melvinowens

June 29th, 2011
10:13 am

Why if we are all created equal?

Or are you saying we are all created equal, but then depending on what we do with our lives our responsibility to support others increases?

If thats so why?

(ir)Rational

June 29th, 2011
10:17 am

melvin – I would say luckily your opinion doesn’t count for much, but unfortunately there are a lot of people in Washington that seem to have the same opinion as you. Why shouldn’t they get the money they overpaid to the government back? If they have paid their share, which is what it means when you get a refund, then why not give them the amount the government was loaned back? I guess we could tax them all at a higher rate, but that wouldn’t really help much. The deficit and debt level would still be climbing at astronomical rates, and common sense tells me that more people will be out of work if their employers are taxed at a higher rate.

Chris

June 29th, 2011
10:17 am

Jay – is your philosophy that ALL income belongs to the governmant and it is up to that government to decide what amount is a “fair” and “moral” amount that the individual should be allowed to keep for themselves? Or do you believe ALL income is the property of the individual and the government should only be given the minimum required to pay for basic constitutional government duties?

TjAtl

June 29th, 2011
10:18 am

Jumping into the CJ / Jimmy62 corporate tax debate:

Jimmy62 said: “Basically you are saying the cost of making an item (which does include taxes) has nothing to do with the price that item will be sold at.”

Accounting 101 – corporate income taxes are not included in Cost of Goods Sold. Taxes on materials and/or services used in the creation of the goods sold *may* be part of COGS, but most often there are no sales taxes paid on these items if they’re used to make something for sale. Income taxes are paid on net profits.

Left wing management

June 29th, 2011
10:19 am

Leg lamp: “You’ve got to be kidding. Eliminating the “Bush tax cuts for the rich” would generate just how much income each year? We’re $14 trillion in debt! Also, why didn’t Obama end the “Bush tax cuts for the rich” as promised?”

If you read my statement carefully you’ll see that I emphasized “for ALL brackets”, though obviously the phaseout should begin with the top brackets. I don’t have the numbers in front of me but I’ve seen charts showing that simply by removing these ruinous tax cuts, the deficit over the short to mid-term is gradually brought back down to manageable levels.

So why did Obama fail to end them?

As I’ve repeated on here ad nauseam — he did it out of pure political calculation (very unwisely in my view) and timidity. He expressly stated at the time that he did it despite being strongly opposed to it personally, claiming that his arm was twisted by the “hostage taking” of his opponents. How exactly you stop the process of hostage taking once you’ve conceded to it, was never explained by the president and in my view that is playing no small role in the troubles he’s currently having in the latest round of hostage taking over the debt ceiling.

The Leg Lamp is a "major award".....

June 29th, 2011
10:20 am

Chris
June 29th, 2011
10:17 am

Great question, but don’t hold your breath for an appropriate answer.

Bosch

June 29th, 2011
10:21 am

I’ve posted this several times before, but if we just suddenly cut all the “welfare” programs — our economy would suffer even more so. The people who receive those benefits do not save them or put them towards their children’s trust funds, they spend it — all of it. It goes right back into the economy, so by all means, lets blame the poor folks and make them the scape goats — that’s so easy.

The other thing is, in the perfect world, people would all work and make a decent living and things would be like it is in the Cleaver world, but it’s not. People do not just vanish and attitudes do not change overnight. If you take away food stamps, TANF, etc. you will see a rise in criminal activity, meaning we will have to pay more for incarceration.

And to those who think there are “welfare” programs (whatever that means) for anyone who wants it, there are eligibility requirements, I have posted those several times for anyone who wants to educate themselves — which include, a work requirement, and a lifetime limit.

But by all means, lets continue to blame the poor folks — it’s always easier to do that.

Jay

June 29th, 2011
10:21 am

Under Reagan, they went down so steeply that Reagan was forced to sign a series of tax INCREASES — including the largest non-wartime tax hike in the nation’s history — to compensate.

Under Bush, tax revenues didn’t top 2000 levels until 2006 (by all of $14 billion, inflation adjusted), and by 2008 they had again fallen BELOW 2000 levels.

(ir)Rational

June 29th, 2011
10:21 am

Jay – so when the tax cuts were fully implemented, and the new jobs were created around 2005 and 2006, and more people were paying taxes, revenues were down? Interesting. What about when Kennedy implemented tax cuts and revenues went up? Or when Clinton did in the 90s? I’m confused, does more tax payers equal higher tax revenues or am I missing something?

AmVet – wrong, we live in a democratic republic. There is a difference. In a democracy, everyone has a vote on everything. In a democratic republic, like we live in, we elect people to make decisions for us. We don’t vote on everything.

The Leg Lamp is a "major award".....

June 29th, 2011
10:22 am

Left wing management
June 29th, 2011
10:19 am

Obama “did it out of pure political calculation (very unwisely in my view) and timidity”. That is how he governs and that is why our country is in a huge mess.

(ir)Rational

June 29th, 2011
10:24 am

Jay now blames the lost income due to a recession on the Bush era tax cuts everyone.

The Leg Lamp is a "major award".....

June 29th, 2011
10:24 am

Bosch
June 29th, 2011
10:21 am

“But by all means, lets continue to blame the poor folks — it’s always easier to do that.”

Or blame conservatives which is what the left always does.

the red herring

June 29th, 2011
10:24 am

JB–a person that i worked with was married and had two children–the wife chose not to work until the kids were in school–each year they got back every dime they paid in income tax plus about $3500 per year in earned income tax credits (duplicate welfare). they put their income tax refund back into household budget and used the $3500 to take the kids to disney world for a week each year. Now how is that fair to the person who worked for that $3500 to have it taken from them so that this family could spend it like this?? i agree every person in america (even those on government welfare/assistance programs) should be paying into the pot so that everybody does actually have some skin in the game. right now far too many people do not. in these economic times i am sure many people with huge incomes lost money as well so indeed they may not have paid income tax on that basis—however during the years where they made a lot of money they paid a ton of taxes—been there done that—all the more reason for the government to get off the backs of private business and let this economy get going again. the only thing that has benefited from obamanomics has been the stock market and that is due to the printing of money and the crazy monetary policy of QE1 and QE2….

getalife

June 29th, 2011
10:24 am

I like the cons turning against the rich and corporate power.

There are none here.

thomas

June 29th, 2011
10:24 am

Jay

June 29th, 2011
10:21 am

So then why not eliminate Bush tax cuts for ALL?

Is it your attempt to stir up class warfare?

Or is it your attempt to garner votes for the democrat party????????

Didn’t president Obama say he would eliminate Bush tax cuts????? Why no Blame thrown his way by you? Oops nevermind forgot about the garnering of votes for democrats, my bad!

Jay

June 29th, 2011
10:26 am

The tax cuts were supposed to protect AGAINST recessions, remember (ir)Rational.

You cannot try to cite real-world evidence (”tax cuts increased revenue”) and then, when proved wrong, try to claim that real-world evidence doesn’t apply.

Mr Charlie

June 29th, 2011
10:26 am

Truth is, we gotta figure out a way to get the 46 who don’t pay paying. Sure, the high income folks need to be addressed, every tax system will fail if only half the people contribute. Bottom line is, if you don’t pay taxes, you don’t belong in the conversation.

Poor, Poor, Pitiful Thee

June 29th, 2011
10:26 am

I see irRational is living up to his name.

Ivan

June 29th, 2011
10:26 am

“Or blame conservatives which is what the left always does.”

Careful, Leg. You’ll start another liberal, mob-like riot.

Mary Elizabeth

June 29th, 2011
10:26 am

real john @ 9:29 a.m.

Most of your points are “talking points” fed out to the public by some conservative media outlets.

According to the Tax Policy Center’s data as shown in the graph above, percentage of federal revenues by source went from 27% in 1951 to 9% in 2011. It seems to me that – all things being equal – America has more corporations today than in 1951, so that the % of of federal revenues paid by corporations should have been more today than 60 years ago.

Of course, all things are not equal. I’m posting this today in the hope that some readers will understand that there has been a deliberate attempt to change the wealth of this nation to the benefit of the top 5% especially in the past 30 years.

Over the past weekend, Republican governors from Florida, Ohio, Wisconsin, and Virginia, among others met in a stealthy meeting – deliberately not written into their agendas – with the Koch Brothers. (Source: Rachel Maddow Show, 6/28/11). Many Republican politicians are bought and sold by corporate interests. I hope that middle and working class Americans – Republican and Democrats -will start to wake up to what is happening and vote for your own interests.

The Republican bloc in Congress, is not interested in raising the debt ceiling at this time for the same reasons. Higher eschelon Republicans have tried to dismantle entitlements such as Social Security and Medicare for decades. Because of their ideological interests – such as the interests of the Koch Brothers – it is “now or never” time for those interests to began dismantling Medicare. (Chris Hayes of “The Nation,” earlier this week on the Rachel Maddow Show)

So, readers, bottom line, do you want an America that impairs Medicare and Social Security while at the same time enhances corporations’ control over your destiny? Class warfare? I think so. Better to recognize it for what it is and deal with it, than to deny that there has been a deliberate attempt – from Supreme Court Justice appointments down – to alter the structure of our government to serve the interests of the most wealthy. (Recent Supreme Court Decisions: Corporations = People; Wal-Mart vs. Women employees) Those with this extreme Rightwing ideological drive have the money and political contacts to achieve their ends. And, in the process change the soul of this nation, IMO.

All that the middle and working class have are their votes and their minds to see what is happening. Use your minds to see beyond the propaganda talking points of a coordinated Rightwing media. Use your hands to cast your ballot against these interests – and for the interests of working and middle class Americans.

(Again, the data in the charts above say what is happening to America even more dramatically than my words.)

The Leg Lamp is a "major award".....

June 29th, 2011
10:27 am

There is obviously no way to know who will win the 2012 election for POTUS, but let’s assume a GOP candidate wins. In June of 2015, will the left accept the excuse from the POTUS and the GOP that the problems the country is facing is because of Obama?

Soothsayer

June 29th, 2011
10:28 am

Poor, Poor, Pitiful Thee

June 29th, 2011
10:28 am

Some people appear to have forgotten the deal Obama chose to make with the Republicans in order to get them to agree to an extension of unemployment benefits.

Left wing management

June 29th, 2011
10:29 am

Chris: “Jay – is your philosophy that ALL income belongs to the governmant and it is up to that government to decide what amount is a “fair” and “moral” amount that the individual should be allowed to keep for themselves?”

You’re statement implies that the government is completely separate from the people. The government is – in principle – a direct representative of the people. Therefore you shouldn’t be speaking of the “government” as something completely alien and imposed from without.

“Or do you believe ALL income is the property of the individual and the government should only be given the minimum required to pay for basic constitutional government duties?”

Again, since the government is an expression of the will of the people, it doesn’t make any sense to speak of money as belonging to the individual first and only after that to the government.

The fundamental fact that the right wing and libertarianism tries with all their effort to repress is the fact that there is no such thing as an individual prior to society. The “individual” is a PRODUCT of society. Now let the hysterical catcalls of protest begin …

getalife

June 29th, 2011
10:30 am

The President wants to go back to Clinton taxes that have us prosperity .

I support our President.

thomas

June 29th, 2011
10:30 am

Bosch,

when gov’t programs like food stamps (EBT cards) are put back into the economy it really isn’t as it is just the same money they we already paid in being recyled back. It stunts or slows job growth and economic recovery.

Let us not play foolish either and pretend as if food stamps are not one of the more abused systems that we currently have.

example you ask…… regardless of the site as I know nothing about it….this was the first one from Google…

http://fellowshipofminds.wordpress.com/2011/05/29/food-stamps-used-to-buy-lobsters-and-steaks/

those downtrodden poor people.

BTW when was the last time you spent $141.78 on lobster and porterhouses?

I’m just glad we have a program to make sure each and every amricn can buy food…

willie lynch

June 29th, 2011
10:30 am

thomas

June 29th, 2011
10:24 am

Unlike the GOP President Obama realises that governing is compromise. The GOP would rather drive the bus off the cliff because someone else said apply the brakes.

The GOP representitves are foolish to a fault.

Left wing management

June 29th, 2011
10:31 am

Leg lamp: “Obama “did it out of pure political calculation (very unwisely in my view) and timidity”. That is how he governs and that is why our country is in a huge mess.”

Ok, on that we can definitely agree – partly. :)

Mighty Righty

June 29th, 2011
10:31 am

At the present time, Interest on the national debt is roughly 800 billion a year. Social Security cost is approximately 700 billion a year. The governmnet can pay both and have more than a trillion dollars left over to do what ever they want. I don’t see a problem.

Joe Mama

June 29th, 2011
10:31 am

Leg Lamp — “The libs believe all life begins and ends with the government. If you want to see how a nanny state functions, look at the news clips from Greece.”

Actually, look at Sweden. And they’re doing better than us, economically speaking.

http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2011/06/go-swedish-part-47/

(ir)Rational

June 29th, 2011
10:32 am

So Jay, since I’m “ignoring” the facts here. When Clinton left office, and before the Bush era tax cuts went into effect, were revenues to the government going up, or were they going down? Did the tax cuts seem to spur more job growth when they were implemented or did the unemployment rate stay the same? If I remember correctly, and I will admit that my memory on the subject might not be the best as I was pretty young then, sometime around 1999 was when the “dot com bubble” burst sending us into a small recession. Then, further memory says we were starting to recover from that when 9/11 happened pushing us deeper in the financial hole, and we finally recovered (sorta) around 2006, just in time for everything to go right back into the crapper. Correct me where I’m ignoring the facts on that one.

thomas

June 29th, 2011
10:32 am

Poor, Poor, Pitiful Thee

June 29th, 2011
10:28 am

So you think that was a good deal?

Leaders lead others, seems like he is being led.

thomas

June 29th, 2011
10:33 am

willie lynch

June 29th, 2011
10:30 am

So your argument is that it was a wise move by Obama to make a bad decision?

Wow now thats a different kind of logic than I am used to.

The Leg Lamp is a "major award".....

June 29th, 2011
10:33 am

getalife
June 29th, 2011
10:30 am

First off, Obama is no Clinton.

Second, how “prosperous” would the Clinton years have been had the housing/banking industry collapsed? If 9/11 had happened a mere 7+ months after taking office? If he didn’t have the telecom industry bubble which burst shortly after Bush took office? No way of knowing, but just some food for thought.

(ir)Rational

June 29th, 2011
10:34 am

Joe – why not look at Europe as a whole? If Sweden isn’t having to drastically cut services, then they seem to be the exception, not the rule. Greece seems to be on the opposite end, but the Greek example is closer to the rule than the Sweden example is.

The Leg Lamp is a "major award".....

June 29th, 2011
10:35 am

Joe Mama
June 29th, 2011
10:31 am

And look at Greece. How are things going in that nanny state?

BADA BING

June 29th, 2011
10:35 am

Taxes are not the problem. JOBSJOBSJOBSJOBS. With jobs comes more tax money, with jobs there are less people to pay unemployment $ to, with jobs, people get their pride back, with jobs, America becomes great again. LASER FOCUS on JOBS.

AmVet

June 29th, 2011
10:35 am

(ir)Rational, I see your mistake of logic and vocabulary posited here with some regularity.

You are still incorrect.

The two terms are not mutually exclusive.

Your failure lies in the lack of a *critically* important qualifier – DIRECT or PURE democracy.

And there are even elements of that in our governance…

Recon (2nd.and 3rd.)

June 29th, 2011
10:35 am

Jay and his followers spending another day blabbering talking points from the left wing think tanks. Check back later to see if there’s a worthy thread topic. This one isn’t.

Bosch

June 29th, 2011
10:36 am

thomas,

I am under no delusion that there is waste and abuse in these programs — but that is by no means reason to simply do away with them as I see them as more beneficial. If you suspect fraud or abuse, report it.

I chose to form my opinions on the facts as outlined in the eligibility requirements set forth by the state instead of some obviously biased reporting throwing out red herrings in a vain effort to disuade attitudes towards these programs that help millions of people from starving and being on the street.

Also, most of these programs — the eligibility requirements are based on children in the household, there are no programs for adults with no kids or for those who are not disabled. So if you want to punish children or the disabled for their situations, then you go with that.

Mighty Righty

June 29th, 2011
10:36 am

willie lynch

June 29th, 2011
10:30 am
thomas

June 29th, 2011
10:24 am

“Unlike the GOP President Obama realises that governing is compromise. The GOP would rather drive the bus off the cliff because someone else said apply the brakes.”

“The GOP representitves are foolish to a fault.”

One cannot compromise with someone holding a gun about which part of your head you will agree to let him shoot.

USinUK

June 29th, 2011
10:36 am

Hi everyone – can’t stay and play, just thought I’d pop in and say hello :-)

have a good one!

getalife

June 29th, 2011
10:38 am

The Clinton team knows how to balance the budget and the tax revenue stream to help balance the budget.

Taking it off the table proves the gop and their cons are not serious about this issue and just playing politics like they always do.

So, shut up about spending cons.

You are not serious and everybody knows it.

Gary

June 29th, 2011
10:38 am

Everyone should pay taxes. No matter how little you make you should have to write a check for $1000 every year to the government. Regardless of deductions (a please get rid of the earned income tax credit) or income pay a grand. You would quickly see a change in attitude over the cost of goverment and the programs people demand. Reduce the corporate tax rate to zero, nada, nothing since the consumer is responsible for paying it in the cost of goods a services. Create a sales tax to cover the corporate taxes. Get rid of all deductions and simply have tax be a percentage of your income with a mandatory minimum. Sorry granny, give the govt 1k. That would take most of the power away from Washington. Half the lobbyist would be fired because they would not be needed. GE could fire most of their tax accountants. Companies would move back to the US quicly bringing much needed jobs. As far as the rich. They would pay their fair share as well in the form of income tax and sales tax and they would not have the deductions and tax shelters to hide money in. Everyone would share the burden of the monster we created.

(ir)Rational

June 29th, 2011
10:38 am

AmVet – the fact remains that our system of government is not a democracy. Pure, direct or otherwise. We live in a democratic republic.

Keep Up the Good Fight!

June 29th, 2011
10:40 am

I always love how the cons trot out their “nanny state” rants and cry “we dont want no nanny state” but when they discuss women’s medical issues, a nanny state is literally very acceptable.

james

June 29th, 2011
10:41 am

Soothsayer @ 10:03am, Thank you for pointing out my SUTA decimal point error, Average salary used was $43,000/yr. The corporation pays ALL the taxes out of the payroll. The employee then has a chance to recollect these taxes when they file their individual taxes. Now out of $100.00 of payroll the government in general collects $40.00, the employee $60.00, out of the $60.00 the employee gets to pay other taxes like property, sales …….

Our government has pulled the wool over most peoples eyes with their manipulation of when, where and how their taxes are removed from their pockets.

Cut spending!

(ir)Rational

June 29th, 2011
10:41 am

getalife – Just who was it that controlled Congress when Clinton was making us all so prosperous? Cause they’re the ones that balanced out the budget, Clinton just agreed to it and signed it. Before two years ago, I never thought I would say that I wished a Clinton was president, but I’ll say it now. At least the Clintons understand the concept of negotiation and working with others to achieve both sets of goals.

Doggone/GA

June 29th, 2011
10:41 am

“Everyone should pay taxes”

Everyone does

Joe Mama

June 29th, 2011
10:42 am

Leg Lamp — “And look at Greece. How are things going in that nanny state?”

I think that, if you are honest and look at the social and governmental structures of Greece and Sweden, you will come to the conclusion that Sweden is *much* more of a nanny state than Greece is.

And how are things going in Sweden? Better than here, economically speaking.

Really

June 29th, 2011
10:42 am

Jay for once I agree with you the liberal democrats are the only idiots that want raise taxes, so thanks for your GOP support. But the FairTax.org would get rid all of the tax loopholes for the rich.

The Leg Lamp is a "major award".....

June 29th, 2011
10:43 am

getalife
June 29th, 2011
10:38 am

Hey everyone, getaclue said all conservatives should just shut up. I guess we need to leave now…….BAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!

George P. Burdell

June 29th, 2011
10:43 am

Jay:

In the above graphs, if payroll taxes includes the amount payed by corporations, I think it significantly changes the reasoning about why taxes have shifted so much from 1951 to 2011. Using rough estimates, it appears in 1951 corporations paid about 27% in income tax and 5% in payroll taxes for a total of 32%. In 2011, that drops to 10% and increases to 18% for a total of 28%. Lower yes, but not nearly as dramatic as the chart implies. Since taxes are a cost and reduce income, the 13% change in payroll taxes paid by corporations would reduce income tax on them by roughly a third, or 4%. It appears to me that all of the difference in corporate share of taxes can be directly attributed to the dramatic increase in payroll taxes over this period.

(ir)Rational

June 29th, 2011
10:44 am

Joe – if Sweden is so great, maybe you should move there? I’m not trying to be smart by saying that, but as I was trying to point out before, Sweden seems to be more the exception than the rule.

RB from Gwinnett

June 29th, 2011
10:44 am

What would you libs tell your kids if they demanded more allowance from you than you made for things you don’t believe they need and they refused to change their own habits to earn their own money? Would you go into debt to make them happy or tell them “NO”?

Thats exactly how you liberals sound to those paying the bills.

Gordon

June 29th, 2011
10:45 am

Jay,

I think the question of whether tax cuts raise revenue over the long term (obviously they don’t in the very short term) is determined by the environment in which it is done. When money is tight, it does seem to raise revenue after a period of several years. That wasn’t the case when Bush did it but I believe this happened under JFK and RWR.

Also, you seem to think that tax rates and government revenue operate in a vacuum. Could the reason revenues dropped after 2001 have something to do with 9/11? Could the reason revenues went up in the latter part of the Clinton administration have something to do with the dot com bubble? Tax rates do affect the way people behave, especially in certain economic conditions.

Bosch

June 29th, 2011
10:45 am

“if Sweden is so great, maybe you should move there?”

Oh wow. The blog equivalent of “if you love taxes so much why don’t you marry them.”

getalife

June 29th, 2011
10:45 am

Greece invented democracy.

Now they are bankrupt because their democracy failed.

When everybody games the system is time for change.

Bosch

June 29th, 2011
10:46 am

“Thats exactly how you liberals sound to those paying the bills”

RB seems to think that “liberals” don’t pay taxes. I’d wager that I pay more taxes than many of the wingnuts here.

Left wing management

June 29th, 2011
10:47 am

Actually, Leg lamp, I think I need to rephrase what I said earlier about Obama agreeing to extend the Bush tax cuts “out of pure political calculation (very unwisely in my view) and timidity” somewhat.

I think it’s closer to the truth to say that Obama failed to let them expire almost exclusively out of timidity, and not so much out of political calculation in the cynical sense. I think that this president — and it will be his downfall, if you ask me — refuses to face up to the inherent cruelty of ideological battles and that means he can be endlessly manipulated by those with no such compunctions. In the case of the budget battles last December, Obama let his hand be forced because he couldn’t bear to see unemployment benefits cut off, thus causing suffering. But what he failed to face was the fact that by that very act he emboldened his enemies — who are also the enemies of the people — and made more future suffering by those same people virtually unavoidable. Moreover, the Republicans pushing the cuts in unemployment benefits were after all democratically elected, so in a sense shielding the voters from the results of their choices (even if their choice was not to vote) was a kind of enabling that in the long run serves no one.

(ir)Rational

June 29th, 2011
10:47 am

Bosch – you’re correct, that was more than a little childish, but I stand by the thought behind it. I should have just figured out a better way to express that thought.

getalife

June 29th, 2011
10:50 am

Leg.

Yes, you are playing politics for the election and not serious about solutions.

You are marginalizing yourselves.

The adults will provide solutions while you cons play politics.

The adult will have a press conference today.

Pay attention if you can.

Gimme Me Free Stuff

June 29th, 2011
10:51 am

Jay, how about an in depth article on how that $800,000,000,000 stimulus package is working.

The Leg Lamp is a "major award".....

June 29th, 2011
10:52 am

getalife
June 29th, 2011
10:45 am

It know you told us to shut up, but…..oh nevermind.

“When everybody games the system is time for change.”

And when you’re $14 trillion in debt, it’s time for the spending games to change.

AmVet

June 29th, 2011
10:53 am

Again, (ir)rational, you just could not be more wrong.

Democracies and republics overlap. They are not opposites.

Democracy means rule of the people. The two most common forms of democracy are direct democracy and representative democracy.

What distinguishes a republic is that it has an elected government. Representative democracies are, therefor, a kind of republic.

Self-appointed governments such as monarchies, dictatorships, oligarchies, theocracies and juntas are not republics. However, this still allows for a wide spectrum. The classic is the Roman Republic, in which only a tiny percentage of citizens, members of the nobility, were allowed to vote for the Senators, who made the laws and also acted as Rome’s supreme court. Most people would say that Rome was a Republic, but not a democracy, since it was very close to being an oligarchy, rule by the few.

Read the entire piece (it is short) and I think you’ll have a much better understanding of how your blanket statement based on simplistic, mutually exclusive definitions is not valid.

So please stop with your absolutist definitions…

Joe Mama

June 29th, 2011
10:54 am

(ir)Rational — “Joe – if Sweden is so great, maybe you should move there? I’m not trying to be smart by saying that

Then maybe you would do the courteous thing and apologize for saying it. You’ve normally been polite to me in the past, but that was really a d**k thing to say if you’re trying to have a polite, adult discussion.

“but as I was trying to point out before, Sweden seems to be more the exception than the rule.”

Maybe it’s *Greece* that is the exception.

The point I was trying to make is that ‘nanny states’ are not by definition economic failures. Both you and Leg Lamp seem to have missed that point.

The Leg Lamp is a "major award".....

June 29th, 2011
10:54 am

Left wing management
June 29th, 2011
10:47 am

Oh brother, people who oppose Obama “are also the enemies of the people”? Are you related to Michael Moore or Oliver Stone?

Left wing management

June 29th, 2011
10:54 am

(ir)Rational: “if Sweden is so great, maybe you should move there”

But that’s no fun. Why do that when I can stay here and try to figure out ways to make beads of sweat form on the heads of the Kasichs, the Scott Walker’s, the Rick Scott’s, and so on?

You see, what I’d rather do is STAY HERE and work day and night to MAKE LIFE DIFFICULT for those who would further move us away from the kind of society that places like Sweden have had. I will be a happier person when I can go to be at night knowing that people like the Koch brothers are running smack into brick walls in their efforts to purchase this democracy so that they can have it to dispose of as they see fit, as though God somehow ordained THEM to be the arbiters of the question of what kind of country it should be.

That’s part of what gets me out of bed in the morning.

Mighty Righty

June 29th, 2011
10:55 am

Jay

June 29th, 2011
10:26 am
The tax cuts were supposed to protect AGAINST recessions, remember (ir)Rational.

You cannot try to cite real-world evidence (”tax cuts increased revenue”) and then, when proved wrong, try to claim that real-world evidence doesn’t apply.

Jay, government revenue is down because we are in a recession. Sales taxes are down because we are in a recession. Jay we have at least 20% unemployment which impacts tax revenue. Our economic problems were caused by government not by tax decreases. Barack Obama disagrees with you about taxes. He has reduced taxes three times during is tenure as president. In addition he gave tax credits to people to buy cars. He also gave a meicare rebate to some people. The words of your party and the actions of your president are at odds. You should talk to Obama about his tax policies.

getalife

June 29th, 2011
10:55 am

“I never thought I would say that I wished a Clinton was president,”

He is President of the world.

If you are not blinded by ideology and brainwashed by fox, you would see that Obama is his third term. He is using the same people in his administration.

Even has his own Bosnia.

Eerily similar but don’t think he will have a Monica in his second term.

Joe Mama

June 29th, 2011
10:55 am

RB — “What would you libs tell your kids if they demanded more allowance from you than you made for things you don’t believe they need and they refused to change their own habits to earn their own money?”

Except that this isn’t what’s happening. Democrats have agreed to many spending cuts and have signaled their willingness to do more. Republicans have repeatedly refused to meet them in the middle on revenue increases. So why should Democrats bother trying any more?

AmVet

June 29th, 2011
10:56 am

The Leg Lamp is a "major award".....

June 29th, 2011
10:56 am

getalife
June 29th, 2011
10:50 am

Talk about being pompous or delusional….. :roll:

The Leg Lamp is a "major award".....

June 29th, 2011
10:58 am

getalife
June 29th, 2011
10:55 am

“He is President of the world.”

BAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!! So what did he do, take over the “Bilderberg Group”? :lol:

willie lynch

June 29th, 2011
10:59 am

thomas

June 29th, 2011
10:33 am

My point is, not all decisions are going to be good. We can look at John McCain’s choice for VP and see that. But when it comes to governing you have to give some to get some that’s politics.

AmVet

June 29th, 2011
10:59 am

Speaking of simplistic explanations:

“Our economic problems were caused by government…”

(AND you are partially correct, Righty.)

ty webb

June 29th, 2011
10:59 am

“That’s part of what gets me out of bed in the morning.”

Who knew that blogging anonymously on a partisan opinion blog at a fledgeling little regional newspaper provided such a podium to fight for truth, justice and the swedish way?

getalife

June 29th, 2011
10:59 am

Leg,

You are one of those cons blinded by ideology and brainwashed by fox I was talking about.

Mr Charlie

June 29th, 2011
10:59 am

Sweden works cause they don’t have victims.

The Leg Lamp is a "major award".....

June 29th, 2011
11:00 am

ty webb
June 29th, 2011
10:59 am

Hilarious!!!

The Leg Lamp is a "major award".....

June 29th, 2011
11:02 am

getalife
June 29th, 2011
10:59 am

And you’re one of the libs who believes it’s okay to house the fox in the hen house. You, sir, truly need to “getalife”.

Mr Charlie

June 29th, 2011
11:04 am

I do find it funny the people will spend hours discussing this, but any real discuss gets edited out.

(ir)Rational

June 29th, 2011
11:05 am

Joe – I’m not apologizing. It would be cheap and I wouldn’t mean it, as like I said earlier, I put it childishly (which I do apologize for), but I stand by the thought. It isn’t my intention to be rude, but unfortunately it sometimes happens.

The point I was trying to make, which you seemed to have missed is that most of Europe is having to cut their government services, similar to Greece (but not on the same scale admittedly), and aren’t in great shape economically. When you look at Europe as a whole (which I believe I did say in my first post on this topic), Sweden seems to be the exception, and Greece is closer to the rule, but admittedly is a much harsher example than what is generally going on in much of Europe.

getalife – Obama may be using many of the same people as Clinton used, but he isn’t anywhere close to the politician or statesman that Clinton is.

Disgusted

June 29th, 2011
11:06 am

But the FairTax.org would get rid all of the tax loopholes for the rich.

Sure thing! The rich wouldn’t need loopholes, because aside from what’s spent on goods and services, the rich could sock away everything tax-free. Presto—no need for loopholes. The poor and middle class, on the other hand, who must spend just about every penny on goods and services, would pay sales taxes on 100% of income.

I was born at night, but not last night. You and Neal Boring need to go pedal stupid somewhere else.

getalife

June 29th, 2011
11:06 am

Leg,

Not a lib and w is gone.

The President took on your heroes that collapsed the global economy and was labeled anti business with the coc running ads.

When will you get up off your knees for corporate power?

Do you have the guts like our President?

Joe Mama

June 29th, 2011
11:07 am

Mr Charlie — “Sweden works cause they don’t have victims.”

Actually, the articles contained within the blog post I linked to present some very good reasons why Sweden works, but I don’t believe that ‘because they don’t have victims’ was one of the reasons cited anywhere in there.

Couldn’t hurt to read it. Maybe you’ll agree with some or all of it, or maybe you’ll decide it’s all bullpoop. Can’t hurt to read it, though.

The Leg Lamp is a "major award".....

June 29th, 2011
11:07 am

Disgusted
June 29th, 2011
11:06 am

Not a disciple of the fair tax, but are you saying the rich, who Jay claims pays no taxes, would still not pay taxes under the fair tax plan?

Very poor reporting....

June 29th, 2011
11:08 am

Jay, if you are trying to make a point, you would take a couple of minutes off from your obviously left-leaning political stance and report WHY those 3000 “tax units” making over $2M paid no taxes.

I’m sure you’d find that those ‘units’ were actually businesses (LLC’s) that employ other lower income ‘tax units’ or were depreciating capital investments — as opposed to Bank of America which took billons of tax dollars and are yet to actually refinance a home owners who is upside down on their mortgage.

The Leg Lamp is a "major award".....

June 29th, 2011
11:09 am

getalife
June 29th, 2011
11:06 am

Okay, you got me. I have no idea what the heck you’re talking about. Your posts often have static and are hard to decipher, but I do believe this was the worst….

Halftrack

June 29th, 2011
11:12 am

Jay, you forgot to tell us if the whole population was divided into the national debt, each individual would owe the government 45000 + dollars. If the 2 million + tax units above a million dollars paid the debt, they would owe 3.5+ million dollars each. The debt is unsustainable. Do you want the Country to go under for too much spending or because you raise taxes. One is a little slower that the other but the end results is the same; chaos.

Left wing management

June 29th, 2011
11:12 am

Leg lamp: “Oh brother, people who oppose Obama “are also the enemies of the people”? ”

You’re reading things into my statements, Leg, that aren’t there. C’mon brother, a little care in reading there.

I also happen to believe that Obama himself is partly in league with those who are against the people, so why would I ever claim that simply opposing him makes you “against the people” ?

Ty Webb, oh I wouldn’t call it a “fledgling little regional newspaper” exactly. :)

Bosch

June 29th, 2011
11:13 am

“I should have just figured out a better way to express that thought.”

Gee, ya’ think irRational?

getalife

June 29th, 2011
11:13 am

“getalife – Obama may be using many of the same people as Clinton used, but he isn’t anywhere close to the politician or statesman that Clinton is.”

I will judge him on his accomplishments and consequences of his actions after his second term.

So far, he is doing well with the vast rw conspiracy starting on his first day.

The birth certificate thingie was disgusting but typical con crap.

The Leg Lamp is a "major award".....

June 29th, 2011
11:14 am

Left wing management
June 29th, 2011
11:12 am

You said Obama’s enemies were also enemies of the people. What exactly did I miss in your diatribe?

Poor, Poor, Pitiful Thee

June 29th, 2011
11:14 am

Contrary to what some people apparently believe, items purchased through such programs as WIC are severely restricted. See

http://wic.ga.gov/pdfs/wic/all_vendor/2011%20%20WIC%20Approved%20Foods%20List%20Final%208-12-10.pdf

instead of referencing some other’s opinion blog.

getalife

June 29th, 2011
11:14 am

“Okay, you got me.”

I accept your surrender leg.

Joe Mama

June 29th, 2011
11:15 am

(ir)Rational — “I put it childishly (which I do apologize for), but I stand by the thought”

I appreciate the semi-apology you’ve presented, but I still think it’s a d**k comment to suggest that I should move there. I didn’t present the example of Sweden out of the blue because I admire it or anything; I simply presented it as a very pertinent counter-example to another posters’ comment. That’s all.

“The point I was trying to make, which you seemed to have missed is that most of Europe is having to cut their government services, similar to Greece (but not on the same scale admittedly), and aren’t in great shape economically.”

I don’t think there are more of a handful of nations in that boat that you can credibly compare with Greece. Ireland, Portugal and Spain, probably, but in *none* of those countries have the people reacted like they are in Greece. I’ve got a friend in Spain and he says that people are upset, but that they’re making do and trying to fix things. The Irish, from what I’ve read, are simply bearing up under the adversity as the resilient Irish always do — with fatalistic good humor. I’m afraid I don’t know much about the situation in Portugal, but again, I’m not hearing about *riots* there. Greece seems to be the extreme example, not the mean or median example.

“When you look at Europe as a whole (which I believe I did say in my first post on this topic), Sweden seems to be the exception, and Greece is closer to the rule, but admittedly is a much harsher example than what is generally going on in much of Europe.”

Which is exactly why I pointed Sweden out. The Scandinavian countries have long been recognized as having one of most comprehensive cradle-to-grave social support systems in the free world, and look at Sweden. It’s an excellent counterpoint to the argument that Leg Lamp made (which was what I was responding to in the first place).

The Leg Lamp is a "major award".....

June 29th, 2011
11:15 am

getalife
June 29th, 2011
11:13 am

“the vast rw conspiracy”. How Clintonesque. And you accuse conservatives of repeating the mantra fed them from Fox News.

Mighty Righty

June 29th, 2011
11:18 am

Individual income tax rates for 2011:

Individual income tax in Sweden is comprised of two major parts: A municipal tax rate between 28.9% and 34.2% and a national tax rate between 20% and 25%. For 2011, the national tax rate applies only to individuals earning more than SEK 383′000 per year. Assuming a municipal tax rate of 30%, the combined tax burden is as follows:

30.00% from SEK 0.00 up to SEK 383′000,
50.00% from SEK 383′000 up to SEK 548′300,
55.00% over SEK 548′300,
There is a 25% expatriate flat tax rate for non-residents.

This is a special for LWM. Every Swede pays a municipal tax of between 28.9% and 34.2% of gross income. No exemptions. To convert Krona to dollars divide by about 8. So if you make more than $50,000 you pay an additional 30% making your rate on anything more than $50,000 60%+. Sounds great doesn’t it? But just think, free Obamacare! Because of the excessive tax rates in Sweden and all Scandanavian countries, the best way to do business is cash under the table. You will get excellent service and discounts. No checks! Cash. Wonder why they live in tiny one or two room apartments? Wonder why their furniture has little storage areas, like beds with drawers? Because there living abodes are small because they can’t afford anything. Little cars, lots of bicycles. Socialism in action. Before you buy anything LWM is selling, visit Denmark, and Sweden. Not the tourist traps. Visit the people and see how they live.

TRUTH

June 29th, 2011
11:18 am

Jay, arguing with the Righties is a complete waste of a keystroke. Even in the face of hard facts they will continue to disagree, which is just fine. I am in the pounded middle class and (luckily) have a job that pays well until the tax man cometh…

I’m bent that the more financially sound “tax units” get away with paying NO taxes at all and continue to lay off other Americans so they can take their jobs abroad. That fact alone should be enough for all of us to cease purchasing these companies products. Period, Point Blank.

It will NEVER happen. As long as we continue to snipe at one another and point fingers, the fat cats will enjoy the divisiveness all the way too the bank and still NOT be paying taxes. DOn’t kno about you others, but I say enough is a frakkin’ nuff.

Just sayin’…..

The Leg Lamp is a "major award".....

June 29th, 2011
11:19 am

Joe Mama
June 29th, 2011
11:15 am

Okay, Joe. Take out the best extreme – Sweden – and the worst extreme – Greece – and tell me how the rest of the nanny states are doing. How many other European countries may have to be bailed out? A nanny state is not the way to go here unless you can amend the Constitution. The govt is supposed to have very limited powers. A nanny state is hardly an example of the country defined by our Constitution.

getalife

June 29th, 2011
11:20 am

leg,

You want some more.

Yes, vast rw conspiracy like the birth certificate, Muslim, Kenyan, etc,,,,

Surrender again.

The Leg Lamp is a "major award".....

June 29th, 2011
11:21 am

getalife
June 29th, 2011
11:14 am

Yes…..I surrendered to you incoherent post and moved on.

(ir)Rational

June 29th, 2011
11:21 am

Joe – I wasn’t referring to the Greek riots either. I was referring to the fact (and you made my point nicely, thanks for that) that most major European countries have come to the realization that they can’t support their population with everything they’ve become accustomed to in the past. Germany, France, and Great Britain can all be added to the list of countries that have had to cut services. Like I said, Greece is the extreme of the example, but is still closer to being the rule than Sweden is.

The Leg Lamp is a "major award".....

June 29th, 2011
11:23 am

getalife
June 29th, 2011
11:20 am

If you have the time and/or desire, go back and see if I ever accused Obama of being born in Kenya or being a Muslim. Won’t find it.

You, however, already regurgitated the “vast rw conspiracy” excuse originally blurted by Hillary. That’s been what, 12 or 15 years ago? Talk about living in the past…..

Poor, Poor, Pitiful Thee

June 29th, 2011
11:25 am

Jay, if you are trying to make a point, you would take a couple of minutes off from your obviously left-leaning political stance and report WHY those 3000 “tax units” making over $2M paid no taxes.

Would not we be better served discussing why millions of people making less than $10,000 per year cannot afford to help us pay down the debt wrought equally upon each and every one of us by forking over at least ten percent of their massive incomes in the form of federal income taxes. Just imagine the dent these people could make in our debt if only they paid their fair share of the expenses. That would be a billion dollars total for every thousand dollars collected from every million people that makes $10,000 and there are probably millions and millions of these poor undertaxed people out there. It’s mind boggling.

The Leg Lamp is a "major award".....

June 29th, 2011
11:25 am

Well, it’s time for me to go and support one of those greedy, evil, repressive corporations that the left so disdains. Yes, I’m heading to Chick Fil A to meet friends and family for lunch. Eat mor’ chikin’.

RB from Gwinnett

June 29th, 2011
11:25 am

“RB seems to think that “liberals” don’t pay taxes. I’d wager that I pay more taxes than many of the wingnuts here.”

I’d wager most of those who pay NO taxes are D’s.

Disgusted

June 29th, 2011
11:26 am

Not a disciple of the fair tax, but are you saying the rich, who Jay claims pays no taxes, would still not pay taxes under the fair tax plan?

They would pay taxes only on what they spend on goods and services, Leg. Everything else, including the remaining income, interest, dividends, capital gains, etc., would be tax-free. It’s a neat tax-shift downward.

Gator Joe

June 29th, 2011
11:27 am

Jay,
The Right, especially the extreme Right, have carried out a successful propaganda and brainwashing campaign aimed at the white lower and middle class voters, convincing them that corporations and the wealthy shouldn’t have their taxes raised, or even adjusted. This, while they [middle and lower classes] are shouldering the tax burden of the wealthy and large corporations who are doing better than ever.
Fortunately, some of us know better, though ignorance, brainwashing and Fox will be difficult to overcome.

I enjoy paying taxes !

June 29th, 2011
11:27 am

During the past 10 years I have noticed; the more money I made (was) = to the amount of taxes I paid which correlated to the amount of employers that laid me off. In short, the increase of my income, increased my chances of being jobless. I would rather pay more in taxes and contribute to society than become a liability to my community. Personally, I don’t enjoy having cobwebs in my pocket due to the lack of income.

getalife

June 29th, 2011
11:27 am

(ir)Rational ,

They had to cut because the global economy collapsed.

Instead of ignoring this fact like most cons, incorporate it into your thinking to be intellectually honest and not just another leg.

Do you think the gop’s uncertainty on default here is helping them?

Be honest.

godless heathen

June 29th, 2011
11:28 am

LWM: “The tendency to categorically dismiss all government use of revenue from taxation as “waste” is in my view a rather infantile posture to take”

And noone takes that posture. If however, as we witness everyday, government has billions and billions to waste after paying for the legitimate functions, then revenue is not the problem.

Left wing management

June 29th, 2011
11:28 am

Mighty Righty: “Socialism in action. Before you buy anything LWM is selling, visit Denmark, and Sweden. Not the tourist traps. Visit the people and see how they live.”

Not that I consider this type of thing decisive in these matters, but for what it’s worth Denmark is considered the happiest place on earth.

Bosch

June 29th, 2011
11:30 am

“I’d wager most of those who pay NO taxes are D’s”

I’d wager not, considering the majority of people on welfare are white and the political make up of our state.

RB from Gwinnett

June 29th, 2011
11:30 am

“Republicans have repeatedly refused to meet them in the middle on revenue increases.”

It’s EXACTLY what’s going on here. Would you meet your children in the middle an only give them XX more than you earn?

The spending cuts the D’s have agreed to are pathetic compared to the problem and we’ve fallen for this “just give us a little more and we promise we’ll spend it wisely and won’t ask for more” routine too many times already. Go tell the lie to somebody else.

Mr Charlie

June 29th, 2011
11:35 am

So Jay finds 3000 people who made over 2 mil that did not pay taxes. Lets to the math. if each of those people pay 1 million in taxes, that would equate to about 3 billion in revenue.

Yet, we have well over 100 million who don’t pay a dime. If they all contributed, oh lets say a hundred bucks, that would be 10billion.

You guys why have the population cannot support the other half?

Mighty Righty

June 29th, 2011
11:37 am

Left wing management

June 29th, 2011
11:28 am
Mighty Righty: “Socialism in action. Before you buy anything LWM is selling, visit Denmark, and Sweden. Not the tourist traps. Visit the people and see how they live.”

Not that I consider this type of thing decisive in these matters, but for what it’s worth Denmark is considered the happiest place on earth.

People in Ethiopia are happy as well. My challenge to Americans is go there and see if they will be happy. We live in the wealthiest most modern nation in the histroy of the world because we have thus far avoided the economic ignorance of Europeans. Capitalism and free enterprise works. Socialisim doesn’t.

Bosch

June 29th, 2011
11:38 am

How very telling it is that RB compares his side to the “parents” and those he is against as the ” petulent children” therefore giving the impression that those who he is ideologically opposed to must somehow be corrected.

Joe Mama

June 29th, 2011
11:39 am

Leg Lamp — “Okay, Joe. Take out the best extreme – Sweden – and the worst extreme – Greece – and tell me how the rest of the nanny states are doing.”

Perhaps you should first *define* what you think a European “nanny state” is. I don’t know what definition you’re using, but given your previous posting behavior, I suspect your definition is that it’s a country in Europe that you don’t like.

“How many other European countries may have to be bailed out?”

I think you should pay more attention to how few *do* have to be bailed out. You know, if bailouts make you uncomfortable, we could always have let the banks fail. I presume that since you seem turned off by the idea of bailouts, that you were opposed to the bank bailouts?

“A nanny state is not the way to go here unless you can amend the Constitution.”

Which is always possible, but again, I don’t know your specific definition of a nanny state.

“The govt is supposed to have very limited powers.”

Defined powers, actually. Limited, *defined* powers.

“A nanny state is hardly an example of the country defined by our Constitution.”

Maybe you should *define* what you mean by “nanny state” before you start in on high-sounding pronouncements like that.

getalife

June 29th, 2011
11:39 am

The adult is talking.

Pay attention.

AmVet

June 29th, 2011
11:39 am

The spending cuts the D’s R’s have agreed proposed are pathetic compared to the problem…

Once again, this is the reality in more relatable terms. The Washington “household” is spending $21,000 more every year than it takes in. The GOP “solution”? Reduce spending by $500 per year.

Woo Hoo!

Fiscal conservatism at it’s finest…

RB from Gwinnett

June 29th, 2011
11:40 am

I’d also wager the person who thinks Sweden is so wonderful has never lived there. I have. Their standard of living for an equivalent wage to ours is PATHETIC. We’re talking about a 600 sq. ft. 2 room apt and 1 car.

If that’s what you want for your engineering degree, you should move there.

I’d also wager their leeches think it’s wonderful too.

Joe Mama

June 29th, 2011
11:41 am

ir(Rational) — “I was referring to the fact (and you made my point nicely, thanks for that) that most major European countries have come to the realization that they can’t support their population with everything they’ve become accustomed to in the past.”

It doesn’t take a nanny state to come to that conclusion. I think it’s a little disingenuous to point that criticism at ‘nanny states’ when *all* states are wrestling with that issue.

More Statistics

June 29th, 2011
11:41 am

According to the United States Department of Agriculture (based on a study of data gathered in Fiscal Year 2006), statistics for the food stamp program are as follows:[15]

49% of all participants are children (17 or younger), and 61% of them live in single-parent households.
52% of food stamp households include children.
9% of all participants are elderly (age 60 or over).
76% of all benefits go to households with children, 16% go to households with disabled persons, and 9% go to households with elderly persons.
33% of households with children were headed by a single parent, the overwhelming majority of whom were women.
The average household size is 2.3 persons.
The average gross monthly income per food stamp household is $673.
43% of participants are white; 33% are African-American, non-Hispanic; 19% are Hispanic; 2% are Asian, 2% are Native American, and 1% are of unknown race or ethnicity.[15]
From the above data 8% of the white population of the United States of America are participants, 39% of African-American non-Hispanics are participants, 15% of the Hispanic population are participants, 9% of the Asian population are participants and 31% of the Native American population are participants.
An annual report released by the USDA about the composition of households participating in the Food Stamp Program is identified as the Characteristics Report.[16

Left wing management

June 29th, 2011
11:42 am

Leg lamp: “You said Obama’s enemies were also enemies of the people. What exactly did I miss in your diatribe?”

What I said was that the enemies of Obama also happen to be enemies of the people. See for yourself. You implied I was saying that by simply opposing Obama that that fact means they’re enemies of the people, which is not at all what I’m saying. So you’re jumping to conclusions.

“But what he failed to face was the fact that by that very act he emboldened his enemies — who are also the enemies of the people — and made more future suffering by those same people virtually unavoidable”

Mighty Righty

June 29th, 2011
11:44 am

Obama is on tv. He just bragged about the tax cuts he signed in Decemeber and he wants everyone to know those tax cuts will be in place for another year.

josef

June 29th, 2011
11:46 am

“fledgling little regional newspaper”

fledgeling…nayanh, been around for a while, I’d be more inclined to call it “aged”
little…nyanh, moderate circulation
regional…defintitely, just not in touch with the region where it’s located
newspaper…probably on a good day, all things considered, and given the state of the institution, but that’s not saying a lot…

getalife

June 29th, 2011
11:47 am

Calling out congress for doing nothing on jobs.

Wants to eliminate welfare for the rich.

Joe Mama

June 29th, 2011
11:49 am

RB — “It’s EXACTLY what’s going on here.”

No, it’s not. You and the GOP are simply being dishonest on this point.

“Would you meet your children in the middle an only give them XX more than you earn?”

You’re begging the question. No one has asked for or even advocated such a thing. Democrats are simply asking for revenue increases to be *added* to the spending cuts so we can bring the deficit down *faster.*

If your household was tight for cash, wouldn’t you look for ways to bring down expenses AND bring more money into the house? Maybe take a second job? This is no different.

“The spending cuts the D’s have agreed to are pathetic compared to the problem”

Which is:

1) Why the Democrats have signaled their willingness to work on further spending cuts

2) Why we need to ALSO work on revenue increases

This is really simple.

“and we’ve fallen for his “just give us a little more and we promise we’ll spend it wisely and won’t ask for more” routine too many times already.”

No one has said or thought any such thing. You’re being paranoid and ridiculous.

“Go tell the lie to somebody else.”

Get over yourself. Nobody’s lying to you.

Mr Charlie

June 29th, 2011
11:50 am

I see there was a rash of shootings last night, what do you want to bet that all the victims and perps were from the 46% that don’t pay income taxes.

Left wing management

June 29th, 2011
11:50 am

Mighty Righty: “We live in the wealthiest most modern nation in the histroy of the world because we have thus far avoided the economic ignorance of Europeans.

And that very wealth is precisely the key to what is such a damning indictment of the United States today. Just consider the fact that though we are the wealthiest nation we still have some of the highest rates of infant mortality in the Western world, we have hands down the worst health care system (which can’t even offer all its citizens the ensured basic coverage that citizen of ALL other advanced nations enjoy), capped off by an income gap between rich and poor that is quickly moving us towards 3rd world status. But even worse than that, that very increasingly concentrated wealth is being used to game the system, to consolidate financial advantage permanently in favor of one group at the expense of those without that advantage.

No serious observer can claim that the United States is not in serious trouble, more divided than at any time since the 1860s, and the crisis is fundamentally political and ideological in nature. Everything is at stake.

“Capitalism and free enterprise works. Socialisim doesn’t.”

ty webb

June 29th, 2011
11:51 am

Josef,
I think I was being generous with “regional” and “newspaper”…I didn’t want to offend our dear host with “urban pamphlet”.

Paulo977

June 29th, 2011
11:52 am

Left wing
management

“but for what it’s worth Denmark is considered the happiest place on earth.”

My aunt who visited was of the same opinion . But , of course ‘capitalists’ who may visit are bound to see things differently!!!

Message from Matti

June 29th, 2011
11:52 am

More Statistics,

How DO you sleep at night knowing somewhere, somehow, some little five-year-old kid (who had no choice about how he came into this world) is eating a peanut butter sandwich for which did not put in eight full hours of work? GOSH, it must be tough thinking of his little belly not grumbling from hunger all night!

RB from Gwinnett

June 29th, 2011
11:53 am

“How very telling it is that RB compares his side to the “parents” and those he is against as the ” petulent children” therefore giving the impression that those who he is ideologically opposed to must somehow be corrected.”

The people paying the taxes are not the ones begging for more, Bosch. And if you personally want to pay more taxes, DO IT! There’s nothing stopping you from leaving that mortgage interst decuction off your tax return so you, like Jay, can send in your “few thousand more”. But you won’t do that, will you?!!

The rest of us are tired of being lied to with this “just a little more” crap.

getalife

June 29th, 2011
11:53 am

Calling out the gop for not being serious on the budget.

Tells the gop to lead instead of pandering to their cons and playing politics.

Calling out the gop for fighting for corporate welfare and calls it not a sustainable position.

Calling their bluff if you will.

Keep Up the Good Fight!

June 29th, 2011
11:55 am

Now now getalife. We cannot blame all of Congress for doing nothing on jobs. The Republicans in the House have passed bills in 2011 that would eliminate 6.7 million jobs. I am sure the Republicans will correct Obama on that point.

SKH

June 29th, 2011
11:56 am

I believe we really need an entirely new tax system, as the one we have is obviously very flawed and getting worse by the year. It’s truly inane. Whatever alternative is advanced, it ought to be simple and without all of the exceptions, allowances, loopholes and inconsistencies that make the present code not much better than a montage created by a maniacal post-modernist artist. Building a city in an area that is largely below sea level is simply not a good idea – indeed, it is a foolish idea. But once that is done, to not at some point (hopefully sooner than later) recognize the danger and either elevate or move the city is welcoming a disaster (like Katrina). Similarly, continuing to build our economy on a tax system that rests on a tectonic fault is, in this present world economy, going to bring us an even greater disaster.

The congress is and has been comprised mostly of lawyers, who (aside from whatever ethical deficiencies they may or may not have) have been schooled to operate in a closed system. Unlike professionals like engineers and doctors, they have NOT been schooled to solve problems. And that should be painfully obvious to even the least reflective citizen. WE need to generate the solutions, test them on a small scale to ensure their viability before implementing them on a large scale (as opposed to the recent trillion dollar healthcare bill) and then insist Congress put them into law. Expecting the Congress to come up with viable solutions is where we, the people who elect them to office, make our big mistake. It’s like asking your uncle (a professor of Ancient Languages) to oversee the renovation of your house.

Mighty Righty

June 29th, 2011
11:56 am

Never ever in my lifetime have Democrats or Republicans reduced spending one penney. But, they have always been willing to increase taxes. I don’t trust them. I say first cut spending, then let’s talk about tax increases. Not on a select group of people but on all of us.

yuzeyurbrane

June 29th, 2011
11:57 am

We can kill 2 or 3 birds with 1 stone. Right now caps on the income that is subject to FICA taxes essentially make it a very regressive tax with the greatest burden on the poor and middle class. Raise those caps by a substantial amt. and suddenly both the Social Security and Medicare Trust Funds are funded indefinitely and are no potential drain on the Treasury. Combine that with an eliminating our penchant for being the world’s policeman and our budget is balanced, the debt is reduced and we can consider public policy initiatives on their own merits rather than with extortionary tactics (i.e. “I won’t raise the debt ceiling if you don’t gut every program I am ideologically opposed to!).

getalife

June 29th, 2011
11:57 am

Our President has found his groove and dealing with our corporate media with facts.

Again, calling out the gop for playing politics on Libya.

BOB FROM ACCOUNT TEMPS

June 29th, 2011
11:58 am

OF A GREATER CONCERN ARE THOSE THAT PAY NO TAXES AND STILL GET MONEY BACK!

Tamika

June 29th, 2011
11:58 am

If you want the tax paying units who don’t pay taxes to start, stop the ‘investments” in favored technology and other silliness sponsored by both parties in general and the democrats in particular. He might also eliminate tax loss carryforwards if he thinks that is fair.Bookman is such a hypocrite!

The Obama debt avalanche has been a disaster. Rather than stimulating the private sector, Obama has attacked it.

We have a spending problem! The government takes in pllenty of money but has not used it well. Giving them even more money to waste is a fools solution.

Either the political process will solve this problem or the market will. The time is comining quickly when a much more chaotic market solution to the US spending problem will be upon us. Time for the adults to lead.

getalife

June 29th, 2011
11:59 am

Keep,

The gop are stealing jobs.

It is their election strategy.

Party over country every time.

thomas

June 29th, 2011
12:00 pm

Poor, Poor, Pitiful Thee

June 29th, 2011
11:14 am

WIC is waaay different than food stamps! Waaaay different.

There are items listed in the store as WIC approved. Funny haven’t seen any that say food stamp or EBT approved. Because the items that can be purchased with food stamps are pretty much anything not already cooked in the store.

While WIC is for necessity items only, like bread, milk, cheese, beans, formula…… things that are necissties of life, not Lobster and porterhouses.

But I suspect you see and understand the differnce. Just not honest enough to admit it!

Why can’t food stamps be as regulated as WIC with only a select few items only those essential to ones health be made available for free?

RB from Gwinnett

June 29th, 2011
12:02 pm

“If your household was tight for cash, wouldn’t you look for ways to bring down expenses AND bring more money into the house? Maybe take a second job? This is no different.”

I’ve already taken a 20% pay cut becasue of this economy, have 2 jobs to try to keep myself and my family afloat, have a kid in college, and you want me to pay more??? You can take your “get another job” attitude and shove it!!

Mighty Righty

June 29th, 2011
12:03 pm

Until each of us is willing to pay our fair share, we should shut up about someone else paying their fair share. Either every one pays taxes or no one pays taxes. That’s fair.

willie lynch

June 29th, 2011
12:03 pm

Tamika

June 29th, 2011
11:58 am

Again, if I remember correctly, it was the government who had to bail out the private sector.

Hmmmmmmmm

June 29th, 2011
12:05 pm

disgusted,

Your peddling stupid enough for all…… Anybody that believes that a tax for all is Stupid is just, well, STUPID!

stands for decibels

June 29th, 2011
12:06 pm

I’ve already taken a 20% pay cut becasue of this economy

Couldn’t have happened to a nicer guy.

AmVet

June 29th, 2011
12:06 pm

Every president since Reagan has pared individual welfare roles down.

And at the exact same time has dramatically expanded corporate welfare.

Which is MUCH more expensive and completely dwarfs all welfare for the poor, infirm, elderly, etc..

Vilify the weak and glorify the wicked – the new American model based heavily on Permanent War.

http://www.warresisters.org/pages/images/pieFY09.gif

uhoh

June 29th, 2011
12:06 pm

Watching your Pres stumble through the press conference-what an idiot. Does he really expect anyone to believe that killing the oil subsidies and kill the corporate jet loophole will fix the debt problem. He’s repeated the mantra 3x already (and it’s just the first 2 questions.) Of course he added the “millionaires and billionaires” in the crosshairs coupled with the seniors will have to pay more, and some kids won’t get to go to college crap.

Jeez I’d just wanna throw up listening to this bonehead.

AmVet

June 29th, 2011
12:08 pm

willie at 12:03,

As I’ve often said, BIG business is against socialism. Until it benefits them.

getalife

June 29th, 2011
12:08 pm

Rebuild infrastructure to put construction workers is a no brainer that the gop are blocking.

The gop are blocking trade deals.

AmVet

June 29th, 2011
12:09 pm

“…your Pres…”

Are you a foreigner? Maybe an undocumented immigrant? LOL…

getalife

June 29th, 2011
12:10 pm

uhoh,

Can’t handle the facts?

Yeah, he is not fox news con.

Left wing management

June 29th, 2011
12:10 pm

To continue on Mighty Righty’s point: “Capitalism and free enterprise works. Socialisim doesn’t.”

You still claim that capitalism “works” even when after 3 decades of free market capitalism it landed us in the ditch of financial speculation and near collapse in 2007-8?

The only thing that saved the system from total collapse was government intervention, which helped save bankers’ bottom lines but thus far has done little to help the general public. In other words, the “socialism” we’ve seen of late has primarily been for the bankers and the financial aristocracy.

As Michael Lewis said: we have socialism for the rich and brutal, dog-eat-dog capitalism for the rest. That’s some socialism man! Aux barricades, comrades!!

AmVet

June 29th, 2011
12:12 pm

LWM, it’s called socializing the risk while privatizing the profits…

thomas

June 29th, 2011
12:12 pm

Bosch

June 29th, 2011
11:30 am

Are you saying all white people are republican? It seems like thats your insinuation. Otherwise why bring up the race of the majority of welfare recievers?

BTW California is the highest, followed by Maine, then Tennessee, Massachusetts, and Vermont rounds out the top five.

Not to put a whole in your argument but I think most of those are democrat states, no?

Oh now i know the source may be a lil biased but maybe not in the way you were thinking……

http://www.cnbc.com/id/31910310/The_Biggest_US_Welfare_States?slide=13

Now i only chose teh older one, I had a moe recent one from June of 2011, but it is ran by a conservative and knew that would lead to attacks on the messenger instead of the actual message.

Mighty Righty

June 29th, 2011
12:13 pm

getalife

June 29th, 2011
12:08 pm
Rebuild infrastructure to put construction workers is a no brainer that the gop are blocking.

The gop are blocking trade deals.

Sorry, as usual you are wrong. Obama was given by Democrats and Republicans 700 billion dollars to do exactly that. But instead he paid off his political contributors.

Poor, Poor, Pitiful Thee

June 29th, 2011
12:14 pm

I heard that property taxes are pretty high over in Gwinnett County. I wonder what the payers of those taxes get for their money and if they think they get a good value.

Joe Mama

June 29th, 2011
12:15 pm

RB — “I’ve already taken a 20% pay cut becasue of this economy, have 2 jobs to try to keep myself and my family afloat, have a kid in college, and you want me to pay more??? You can take your “get another job” attitude and shove it!!”

Really? So you’ve already done EXACTLY what I’m advocating the government should do — and you’re getting all upset at me?

You’re too good to be true. (laughing) You’re a living example of the EXACT METHOD I’m suggesting the government follow to get us out of debt — cut spending AND increase revenue, and yet you’re telling me to shove it. (pointing, laughing) :D

I know what you’re upset about now. You’re mad because you know I’m right — and you know it because YOU’RE ALREADY DOING IT.

(laughing) :D

Message from Matti

June 29th, 2011
12:15 pm

The Plutocrats are on the attack. Ignore this at your own peril. When the middle class is history and the time comes to segregate the Lords from the Serfs, what side of the fence do you think you’ll be on? Uh-huh.

AmVet

June 29th, 2011
12:16 pm

“Are you saying all white people are republican?”

But 90 something percent of Republicans are white, true?

Joe Mama

June 29th, 2011
12:16 pm

Righty — “Until each of us is willing to pay our fair share, we should shut up about someone else paying their fair share. Either every one pays taxes or no one pays taxes. That’s fair.”

As your side is fond of saying, life is unfair. I suspect you will go on thinking that our tax structure is unfair, too.

josef

June 29th, 2011
12:18 pm

“BTW California is the highest, followed by Maine, then Tennessee, Massachusetts, and Vermont rounds out the top five.”

California–swing state about evenly divided R-D
Tennessee–solidly R
Maine–R, liberal R, but R
Mass–D
Vermont–who knows? I’d go for I…

“Not to put a whole in your argument but I think most of those are democrat states, no?”

Not really.

stands for decibels

June 29th, 2011
12:19 pm

Off topic, but this photo montage made me proud to be American, this week…

http://rudepundit.blogspot.com/2011/06/among-gay-gays-photo-essay-of-victory.html

0311/0317 - 1811/1801

June 29th, 2011
12:20 pm

Har ! Har ! Har !

“IMAGINE THERE’S NO LIBERALS ……….. LA, LA LA LA !”

HEADLINE: “John Lennon was a closet Republican, who felt a little embarrassed by his former radicalism, at the time of his death – according to the tragic Beatles star’s last personal assistant.

Fred Seaman worked alongside the music legend from 1979 to Lennon’s death at the end of 1980 and he reveals the star was a Ronald Reagan fan who enjoyed arguing with left-wing radicals who reminded him of his former self.”

http://www.torontosun.com/2011/06/28/lennon-was-a-closet-republican-assistant

stands for decibels

June 29th, 2011
12:21 pm

I don’t know where cnbc got that “welfare states” data, but here’s what I pulled up…

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/2010/04/the_red_state_ripoff.html

um…

0311/0317 - 1811/1801

June 29th, 2011
12:22 pm

Headline: “IRAN TESTS NUKE MISSILES”

Are the Israeli jets warming up on the runway yet ?

Mighty Righty

June 29th, 2011
12:22 pm

Left wing management

June 29th, 2011
12:10 pm

I am sure it comes as a surprise to you that the entire western world is in a recession including all socialist countries. Only Cuba is left of the great socialist experiment and I don’t think even you would tout that economic failure. Even China has pretty much given up socialism for Capitalisim. Come on, it’s time to smell the roses.

AT

June 29th, 2011
12:22 pm

So, if you run these numbers: $2.56 trillion (est 2011 fed budget – minus social sec and medicare, ie what payroll taxes pay for) divided by the number of people who pay taxes, 54% of 164 million (from the link Jay provided), you get…

$29000 of spending per tax unit per year that actually pays something.

Continuing the math you get $7540 spending per tax unit per year on social security/medicare assuming every tax unit contributes.

Problem is spending, not taxes.

Bill Orvis White

June 29th, 2011
12:23 pm

FAIRTaxFAIRTaxFAIRTaxFAIRTaxFAIRTaxFAIRTaxFAIRTaxFAIRTaxFAIRTax…. I all levels of gov’t way too much. Because I have to be forced to pay for failing public screwels in Washington, D.C., abortions in Liberal New York City and seeds to grow drugs on the Left Coast, I AM NOT HIRING ANYONE NEW, PERIOD!
Goodnigt and amen,
Bill

0311/0317 - 1811/1801

June 29th, 2011
12:23 pm

JAY:

HERE YOU GO ! THE SOLUTION TO SOUTH GEORGIA FRUIT !

“NKorea shuts down universities; sends students to work in factories, farms… ”

Get our students down there !

RB from Gwinnett

June 29th, 2011
12:24 pm

Joe, If I was doing what you are proposing, i’d be standing around with 1 job begging other people to give me money so I could continue spending more money than I earn. THAT’s what you and your dems are doing. It’s NOT the same thing. I’d be laughing too, but the thought of people as dense as you are having an equal vote just isn’t funny.

Keep Up the Good Fight!

June 29th, 2011
12:24 pm

stands, great photo. Isn’t UsinUK a big cat fan, I wonder if she is going to be upset that someone’s sign suggests they are eating cats

thomas

June 29th, 2011
12:25 pm

AmVet

June 29th, 2011
12:16 pm

Best figures i found showed about 63-67% of whites were republican.

But if you say 90% i guess we will all believe you, wouldn’t happen to have a source for that would you?

Lets say you are correct! That still leaves 10% who are not republicans, correct? Pretty sure the poster who originated it is white himself, making the first insinuation even more confusing.

josef

June 29th, 2011
12:27 pm

SFD

That photo montage embarasses me and makes me ashamed…why highlight the, uh, colorful and outrageous…? I’m not opposed to it per se, but that’s light years away from mine and my partner’s and our associates lives and how we live them.

If ot’s we’re “just like you and your folks” we want…this is not the way to go about it, imho…and, BTW, I do love a good drag show..

.

0311/0317 - 1811/1801

June 29th, 2011
12:27 pm

As Ann Coulter’s new book says, liberals live by the mob !

Headline: “911 tapes reveal fights before beach shutdown… ”

Headline: “Mob of 100 rob restaurant customers in Philly… ”

Oh, and by the way ………….. “POLL: Obama 42%, any Republican 46%… “

thomas

June 29th, 2011
12:32 pm

josef

June 29th, 2011
12:18 pm

Funny all of the data and research I saw had 4 of the 5 states voting solidly for Obama in the last presidential election, with tenn. being the exception!

http://www2.imperial.ac.uk/~mgastner/cartogram/election10/election10.html

http://www-personal.umich.edu/~mejn/election/2008/

But those are just the latest facts. Nothing to concern yourself with.

You say they are republican states, who cares if the experts show they have voted democrat right?

thomas

June 29th, 2011
12:34 pm

stands for decibels

June 29th, 2011
12:21 pm

not disputing that, the original topic was not about who spends and recieves more it was about who has the most people recieving welfare type benfits.

Sorry if you don’t agree with the facts.

Joe Mama

June 29th, 2011
12:35 pm

RB — “Joe, If I was doing what you are proposing, i’d be standing around with 1 job begging other people to give me money so I could continue spending more money than I earn.”

That’s absolutely ridiculous; I’ve neither said nor proposed any such thing. I have *repeatedly* said — and on plenty of threads other than this one — that we need to cut spending AND increase revenues in order to solve our financial problem. It’s very simple, and all the fanciful falsehoods and outright misstatements you post won’t change what I’m saying.

“THAT’s what you and your dems are doing. It’s NOT the same thing.”

No, it’s not, and yes, it is. We are trying to execute a two-part solution to the problem, and it is EXACTLY the same thing a family would do — look for ways to cut spending AND increase income.

” I’d be laughing too, but the thought of people as dense as you are having an equal vote just isn’t funny.”

I think it’s *precious* that *you’re* calling someone else dense, RB. (pointing, laughing) :D

Dave R.

June 29th, 2011
12:36 pm

Why am I not surprised that Jay seems more upset with the .000009% of people who in any given year don’t cough up .001% of our annual deficit?

There seems to be no cure for the disease of the liberal thought process.

Keep Up the Good Fight!

June 29th, 2011
12:39 pm

josef, I dont think there is any need to feel shame. Shirtless guys at a football game, chants in New Orleans to exhange beads (tat) for showing non-tat. St Patricks’s day has many Irish and non-Irish showing similar behavior. Go to most big events like the cycle event in SD or college breaks you’ll see much more and yet there are few objections. I dont think there should be a double standard just because of sexual orientation.

That is of course not to say that I do not understand your point and the diversity of opinion.

josef

June 29th, 2011
12:39 pm

thomas

I never said they were Republican states. Just because most voted for Obama does not mean they are Democrat states. California just voted out a Republican governor. Maine has two GOP. The senators. The Kennedy seat is currently held by a GOP and the GOP front runner for the party nomination for president is from Mass…you can’t just go on the last presidental election…

Poor, Poor, Pitiful Thee

June 29th, 2011
12:41 pm

stands for decibels

June 29th, 2011
12:42 pm

I wonder if she is going to be upset that someone’s sign suggests they are eating cats

why, for shame! that’s just wrong, eating cats!

That photo montage embarasses me and makes me ashamed…why highlight the, uh, colorful and outrageous…

well see, this is the Rude Pundit? The guy whose motto since 2003 has been “Proudly lowering the level of political discourse”?

Anyway, I just liked seeing all kinds of folks enjoying themselves and having a good time. Different strokes and all that.

thomas

June 29th, 2011
12:43 pm

josef

June 29th, 2011
12:39 pm

Um had a link to the midterm elections too…….

If you never said they were republican states then can you explain what you meant by the (R) next to the states names?

josef

June 29th, 2011
12:18 pm
“BTW California is the highest, followed by Maine, then Tennessee, Massachusetts, and Vermont rounds out the top five.”

California–swing state about evenly divided R-D
Tennessee–solidly R
Maine–R, liberal R, but R
Mass–D
Vermont–who knows? I’d go for I…

Real Scooter

June 29th, 2011
12:44 pm

stands for decibels

June 29th, 2011
12:19 pm

DB,if that’s what makes you proud to be American,you really need to seek help buddy.

khc

June 29th, 2011
12:45 pm

could we also get an analysis of what various income groups pay percentage wise for all taxes, hopefully by category…..it would be interesting to compare the % of tax paid from the lower income groups to high income groups

RB from Gwinnett

June 29th, 2011
12:45 pm

Joe, again, we’ve done this “just a few more dollars” routine so many times we’re sick of it. Only a complete idiot doesn’t think the government won’t find a way to spend every dime of the increased revenue and then turn around in a few years and whine “we need more”.

We’re tired of it. And we’re tired of the whining from the 47% that the rest of us aren’t “paying our fair share” while they contribute nothing but whining.

You got that “complete idiot” comment I hope…

Swami Dave

June 29th, 2011
12:45 pm

Joe Mama

For over a generation, every “deficit reduction plan” has been a “compromise” of higher taxes (implemented immediately) and reductions in spending (scheduled “over a period of years” that never materializes). This has been the reality regardless of which political party has been in power.

To that end, the dependency brigades and the politicians who acquire power by creating / expanding transfer payments and services deserve no trust from Taxpayers that they will uphold THEIR end of any compromise and accept real cuts in spending.

Return government to its constitutional charter and enact real spending cuts – THEN America’s Taxpayers can be expected to participate.

Otherwise, not one dime of additional taxes because America’s Taxpayers already provide more than is needed to fund the operations of government. The problem is that too many Tax-BENEFICIARIES expect politicians to steal that which is earned by others to fund transfer payments and services that they will not provide for themselves.

America will have fewer problem when our growing class of economic cabooses start pulling their own weight like the economic engines have been doing for a long time.

-SD

Dave R.

June 29th, 2011
12:46 pm

josef, I’m calling BS on your state electoral descriptions.

“California–swing state about evenly divided R-D”

Sorry, both state houses and national delegations are solidly Democrat.

“Tennessee–solidly R”

True.

“Maine–R, liberal R, but R”

Barely R (7 seats in house, and decidedly liberal at that.

“Mass–D”

Critically and solidly Democrat. No Republicans in their House delegation.

“Vermont–who knows? I’d go for I…”

Solidly Democrat. And their “I’s” are admitted Socialists!

td

June 29th, 2011
12:47 pm

0311/0317 – 1811/1801

June 29th, 2011
12:23 pm
JAY:

HERE YOU GO ! THE SOLUTION TO SOUTH GEORGIA FRUIT !

“NKorea shuts down universities; sends students to work in factories, farms… ”

Get our students down there !

Yes, earn that HOPE scholarship that the schools inflated the grades for you to get.

josef

June 29th, 2011
12:47 pm

good fight

I’ll confine myself here to just Mardi Gras since it, too, is “mine.” I love it. But it is so much more than just a media image and, quite frankly, that image is what so many think “we” are all about. When my folks get together there’s usually a squabble over whose turn it is to “have to” squire the tourists to the Vieux Carre for the outrageous experience. Most of us had rather sit on the verandah, munch king cake and jambalaya, stroll down the block to the neighborhood parade and such other events.

Like I said, I’m not out to say “no” per se…but where are the mundane, day-to-day, just want to go about our lives with equal rights, that is the “real” people. And believe me, there are a whole lot more of them in the parade and the crowds than the outrageous. Just keep it in perspective. It embarasses me and I am ashamed that we still feel obligated to highlight the “spectacular…”

thomas

June 29th, 2011
12:48 pm

Poor, Poor, Pitiful Thee

June 29th, 2011
12:41 pm

The states eating through the government money are nearly all farm states. It is done through the farm subsidies.

Now i do not agree with anyone getting any kind of subsidy unless they are physically or mentally not capable of working.

But you do understand that YOU are getting a benefit from the farm subsidies don’t you? Unless of course you grow your own fruits and veggies and never buy any from anyone. Thats how they keep the price low.

Where as a person reciving food stamps is not improvingthe life of anyone except their family members and themselves.

Both are wrong in my opinion, but one is a lil more wrong. Especially since the cost of the wronger (is that a word)one would be much much higher if it was not for the less wrong choice keeping prices down.

td

June 29th, 2011
12:49 pm

thomas

June 29th, 2011
12:25 pm
AmVet

June 29th, 2011
12:16 pm

Best figures i found showed about 63-67% of whites were republican.

But if you say 90% i guess we will all believe you, wouldn’t happen to have a source for that would you?

Lets say you are correct! That still leaves 10% who are not republicans, correct? Pretty sure the poster who originated it is white himself, making the first insinuation even more confusing

If AM was correct then Republicans would have super majorities in the House, Senate, hold the white house and every governorship.

Doggone/GA

June 29th, 2011
12:51 pm

“Thats how they keep the price low.”

But are they, REALLY keeping them low? Sure the price on the sticker is lower, but the ACTUAL cost is that price PLUS the subsidy that we are paying.

josef

June 29th, 2011
12:51 pm

thomas, Dave

see my 12:39…

khc

June 29th, 2011
12:51 pm

2/3rds of all corporatio­ns pay no federal income taxes at all and the top 400 richest Americans paid an effective tax rate of 17% all in the last decade. Taxes are the lowest they have been since the 1950’s.

where are the jobs?

Chris Matthews

June 29th, 2011
12:52 pm

That’s why we need the fair tax! Everybody will pay taxes! Illegals, Mafia, druggies,corporations, federal employees, etc. Most people are too stupid to understand how it works. So stupid that they voted for Obama and will do it again! They will follow the clueless Piper off a cliff!!

Granny Godzilla

June 29th, 2011
12:53 pm

HOW ABOUT SOME HAPPY NEWS?

From TPM

BREAKING: 6th Circuit Upholds Constitutionality of Affordable Care Act | The majority writes: “We find that the minimum coverage provision is a valid exercise of legislative power by Congress under the Commerce Clause and therefore AFFIRM the decision of the district court.” Key passage:

By regulating the practice of self-insuring for the cost of health care delivery, the minimum coverage provision is facially constitutional under the Commerce Clause for two independent reasons. First, the provision regulates economic activity that Congress had a rational basis to believe has substantial effects on interstate commerce. In addition, Congress had a rational basis to believe that the provision was essential to its larger economic scheme reforming the interstate markets in health care and health insurance.

E. ATL Tax Unit

June 29th, 2011
12:53 pm

“According to its numbers, 46.4 percent of “tax units” in America will pay no income tax this year.”

It’s much higher than that. Most illegal aliens – I mean “undocumented workers” – don’t file tax returns.

And of the tax units who do file, a huge number of them don’t actually pay the tax that’s due. IRS has tens of billions on the books that are uncollected.

thomas

June 29th, 2011
12:53 pm

Doggone/GA

June 29th, 2011
12:51 pm

Then that just means rich people pay waaaay more for fruit than poor people I guess, since the upper income bracket pays a much higher percentage of total taxes, and consist of much fewer people. Seems like some people ain’t paying much of anything towards that subsidy.

Another break for the rich guys I guess?

Chart

June 29th, 2011
12:55 pm

td

June 29th, 2011
12:55 pm

thomas

June 29th, 2011
12:48 pm

“Where as a person reciving food stamps is not improvingthe life of anyone except their family members and themselves”

Food Stamps is another hidden subsidy to the farmers. The fatter these people are the more money in the pockets of the farmers.

thomas

June 29th, 2011
12:56 pm

josef

June 29th, 2011
12:51 pm

You mean the one were you said you never said they were republican states?

But just before that you had put R’s and D’s after each state.

What am I suppossed to take from that? That you are liar? Or that you are very confused? Maybe it is memory lapses you suffer from?

What should I take from that?

josef

June 29th, 2011
12:57 pm

E ATL

“Most illegal aliens – I mean “undocumented workers” – don’t file tax returns.

No, they don’t. They do, though, pay in on those false SS numbers…and never collect there nor on Social Security…not defending it mind you, but it’s the way the game is played, so in the long run they’re paying more than “their fair share.”

DawgDad

June 29th, 2011
12:57 pm

“Let the call to raise taxes on the poor, the elderly on fixed income and lower-income earners begin.”

Just who is calling for this? The Democrats. Re-read that statement very carefully, especially the “elderly on fixed income” part, and think about it.

Unless we abolish the income tax we need to hold the line on rates, close off loopholes, and debate the subsidies.

casual observer

June 29th, 2011
12:58 pm

It’s hilarious to me that “The Messiah” used tax deductions or loopholes on his personal income tax file.

Give me freaking break! How long must we be under this joke of an Administration? Along with Geithner the tax cheat! It just goes on and on. Pathetic!

thomas

June 29th, 2011
12:58 pm

khc

June 29th, 2011
12:51 pm

They are paying payroll tax geez thats good enough for the many who pay no income tax why does that excuse not work for the coorporations?

josef

June 29th, 2011
12:59 pm

thomas

The generally accepted from the pattern of past voting records and the margins in those elections…a tendency, if you will…

and watch that liar thingie…don’t be a rude sob…

Thulsa Doom

June 29th, 2011
12:59 pm

but I’m more intrigued by the fact that 3,000 “tax units” with incomes above $2.18 million paid no income tax. All in all, 446,000 “tax units” with incomes above $103,465 paid no income tax on that money, a figure that includes capital gains taxes.- Jay

Jay,

I suspect that with at least some of these taxpayers that they have capital gains tax loss carryforwards to offset their gains. Legal tax avoidance and if that is the case with many of these people then its completely fair. Tax avoidance is legal after all. If we don’t like it then perhaps we need to look at changing the law. In any event your synopsis is not really complete if you can’t detail how or why many of these taxpayers paid no taxes. As I said I suspect its all legal but I would like to know how and why these tax units are able to avoid paying taxes. Anybody out there have some good ideas or reasons as to why these people were able to avoid paying federal taxes?

thomas

June 29th, 2011
1:00 pm

td

June 29th, 2011
12:55 pm

The farmer would get the money either way! The only reason the food cost is so low is because of teh subsidies given to the farmer to ensure the cost of produce stays affordable.

Or did you miss that part of the reason for giving the farmers subsidies?

DawgDad

June 29th, 2011
1:02 pm

josef: Your logic on illegal immigrants “paying more than ‘their fair share’” completely escapes me. If they are paying SS tax that IS their “fair share”. Ponzi schemes need to be fed; all wage earners are obligated to feed this one. If they aren’t legal when it’s time to collect the benefits that’s their own fault.

thomas

June 29th, 2011
1:03 pm

josef

June 29th, 2011
12:59 pm

You did lie or you forgot what you posted. 3rd option someone namejacked you?

maybe you didn’t lie!

What was the purpose of the R and D after each states name for, if not to represent which way the state leaned? making them either democrat or republican states?

Left wing management

June 29th, 2011
1:03 pm

Mighty Righty: “I am sure it comes as a surprise to you that the entire western world is in a recession including all socialist countries. ”

Speaking of which, let’s discuss the one country that best represents what should be a huge problem for your standpoint: Germany.

Germany is in so many respects opposite to what you claim to want. It has national health care, tons of regulations about hiring and employee training that companies have to comply with (which by the way helped immensely during the financial crisis and after because when orders started picking up companies had the needed workers on hand and didn’t miss a beat increasing their hours to meet the need), not to mention a corporate governance structure that is far more conducive to workers rights than here (union representatives as a requirement on board, none of this Wild Wild West anglo-American stockholder-based stuff).

So how are they doing? They’re unemployment is well below ours and German manufacturing is positively booming.

So you really don’t have much to say in objection to a system like that, do you?

RB from Gwinnett

June 29th, 2011
1:04 pm

“the top 400 richest Americans paid an effective tax rate of 17% ”

The only way for them to do that legally is to use the tax exemptions available to all of us. If you don’t like the result, whine to your congressman, but quit blaming the 400 for doing the smart thing with their finances. They didn’t get to be the top 400 richest by being foolish with their money.

td

June 29th, 2011
1:04 pm

thomas

June 29th, 2011
1:00 pm
td

June 29th, 2011
12:55 pm

The farmer would get the money either way! The only reason the food cost is so low is because of teh subsidies given to the farmer to ensure the cost of produce stays affordable.

Or did you miss that part of the reason for giving the farmers subsidies?

I got it and agree but since the prices are low and you give 25% of the population FS then they are going to buy more food and the profits for the farmers are going to go up even more.

DixieDemons

June 29th, 2011
1:07 pm

So 54 % percent of the working population provides the money for congress to spend on pork barrel projects, foreign aid and give- aways to special interests. Seems like the best game plan for the working class is to marry an undocumented immigrant , get a dual citizen and pay no taxes .

mm

June 29th, 2011
1:07 pm

So, to recap.

For you wingnut whiners that don’t want to pay income taxes, either get really, really rich, or go work at McDonalds.

josef

June 29th, 2011
1:07 pm

DawgDad

I thought I clarified that with that–not that I defend it–but the simple fact that they do not collect..i.e. a tax refund or the SS benefits. If citizen X gets back most of what s/he paid in on IRS and non citizen Z doesn’t file and gets back nothing, then it looks to me like non citizen Z is paying in more than citizen X which is not “fair.” I’m just saying that this illegal alien thing is not so simple as it appears to be when trotted out for talking point lambaste…

Bud Wiser

June 29th, 2011
1:09 pm

Bookman says: “…Let the call to raise taxes on the poor, the elderly on fixed income and lower-income earners begin.

I concur.

When a man is drowning, he can be pulled from the water more quickly by more people pulling on the rope.

When an economy is drowning (in Washington hyper-produced red ink), it too can be pulled up faster if more people contribute, whether it be by a dollar, ten dollars, or a hundred.

Everyone wants to share the wealth, as long as it is someone else’s they are sharing.

No one wants to share the burden, it is always others that should share that, not them … they just want to receive.

Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)

June 29th, 2011
1:09 pm

Well, I knowed it was going to be a bad day when I walked out of the trailer and found out I’d put my overalls on backwards.

Now this appeals court has up and said the Obamacare rule that everybody has to buy health insurance is OK.

It’s going to be downright pitiful to see all the good Conservatives on here paying that tax penalty for not having health insurance.

Like I said, it’s a bad day.

thomas

June 29th, 2011
1:09 pm

td

June 29th, 2011
1:04 pm

Disagree, the farmer is going to get his either way!

Only differnce is that because of the subsidy to the farmer YOU get to keep more of your money to use for things other than food.

However because a person gets welfare subsidies of some type does not in anyway insure that YOU will keep any more of your money.

Again I disagree with both, just think one is worse since it helps waaaay fewer people.

josef

June 29th, 2011
1:10 pm

thomas

There’s no further point in trying to talk to you. You’re just a rude b*stard out to be a jackass…I’m not in that mood today…maybe later…

Joe Mama

June 29th, 2011
1:11 pm

RB — “Joe, again, we’ve done this “just a few more dollars” routine so many times we’re sick of it. Only a complete idiot doesn’t think the government won’t find a way to spend every dime of the increased revenue and then turn around in a few years and whine “we need more”.

Maybe what’s needed is — GASP — earmarks?

Earmark all revenue from new sources (or all revenue above current levels or whatever level you want to set) to go DIRECTLY towards retiring national debt. Put it into law and make it damn near impossible to change. If Congress did it that way, would you feel any better about that? Would that give you confidence that the extra revenue wasn’t being spent on other programs? Or on new ones?

“We’re tired of it. And we’re tired of the whining from the 47% that the rest of us aren’t “paying our fair share” while they contribute nothing but whining.

I don’t believe you’ve ever seen me post anything remotely resembling those words, but I’m sure you won’t let that stop you from acting like I said it and think it. It’s always easier to deal with others if you just treat them like a stereotype and don’t bother to listen to what they’re actually saying, isn’t it?

“You got that “complete idiot” comment I hope…”

I think it’s *precious* that *you’re* calling someone else an idiot. (pointing, laughing) :D

ken

June 29th, 2011
1:11 pm

At my business I do not pay any taxes. My customers pay my taxes.

Joe Mama

June 29th, 2011
1:12 pm

Swami Dave — see my last post, please.

khc

June 29th, 2011
1:12 pm

rb, they also buy our congressman for tax breaks….pols are fairly corrupt they spend more time raising money to stay in office than working as public servants with pretty good pay and benefits

Dave R.

June 29th, 2011
1:12 pm

thomas, I suggest you don’t go down the “lie” route with anyone on this blog, especially josef.

He, unlike others I could name, is one of the more informed and more importantly, honorable people on this blog.

As you do not know what josef knew in making his claims, you cannot accuse him of lying to you.

thomas

June 29th, 2011
1:12 pm

mm

June 29th, 2011
1:07 pm

Which wingnut is whining about paying taxes?

Seems more are complaing about those who are paying no income tax.

So what is your stance? What should tax rate be? Why do you feel anyone should not have to pay their equal share for equal use of the goods and services provided by our government, as that is the argument many of the wingnuts have taken up today?

DawgDad

June 29th, 2011
1:13 pm

josef: It’s apparent your definition of “fair” is whatever the left defines as “social justice”, which to me is hogwash. My definition is more to the dictionary version of “fair”. All W2 wage earners are OBLIGATED BY LAW to PAY INTO Social Security and Medicare up to the established limit. You earn the wage, you are obligated to pay the tax. Fairness in terms of the tax has NOTHING to do with receiving benefits – there is no real guarantee any of us will receive any benefits.

Poor, Poor, Pitiful Thee

June 29th, 2011
1:13 pm

The states eating through the government money are nearly all farm states. It is done through the farm subsidies.

Do you have a link to data supporting this and how does this impact the point I made regarding “Red” states getting the bulk of the government spending. It appears as though you chose to change the subject of my post.

But you do understand that YOU are getting a benefit from the farm subsidies don’t you? Unless of course you grow your own fruits and veggies and never buy any from anyone. Thats how they keep the price low.

Granted, I do live in a “Red” state but I also grow my own food during growing season and I note that many of the vegetables that I buy during the off season do not even come from the US so are you saying that we subsidize growers in other countries? Do you have a source for that information.

Where as a person reciving food stamps is not improvingthe life of anyone except their family members and themselves.

My child works at a local grocery store and if it were not for all the Republicans on food stamps making their regular purchases, that job, amongst many others, might not exist so I must disagree with your assessment.

Fred

June 29th, 2011
1:14 pm

Isn’t it time for a new blog on Bother Barry’s press conference?

Fred

June 29th, 2011
1:14 pm

LOL Brother Barry, not bother Barry……….

Corp Tax Hike = BS

June 29th, 2011
1:14 pm

Attn: Those promoting Corporate Tax Hikes -
My Grocery / Gas / Electric / Cost-of-Living expenses are high enough now. Raising Corporate Income Tax will just make those products that much more expensive. It will just be passed on to consumers. Is that so hard to understand??? (Then again, we are talking to people who voted for the Irish-African-American with no practical experience, aren’t we?!

josef

June 29th, 2011
1:15 pm

DAVE

Thanks…maybe we should bring up the Late Misunderstanding and see if we can’t get a new thread?
:-)

thomas

June 29th, 2011
1:15 pm

Dave R.

June 29th, 2011
1:12 pm

I offered that it could have been a mistake or that he forgot what he had posted earlier.

he chose neither of those reasons, instead only defended the liar accusation.

Still haven’t recieved what was meant by the R’s and D’s after people’s names?

Maybe he didn’t mean to type the part about I never said….

Thanks for the input, but I will say what I mean and mean what I say. Anything else would be well dishonest. Apologies to those who may be offended.

Jefferson

June 29th, 2011
1:15 pm

Its not what you pay, it what you have left that matters….

josef

June 29th, 2011
1:17 pm

DAWG

There’s the misunderstanding…no, I was not using fair in the social justice sense (this IS taxes we’re talking about :-) ) but in the equitable sense…

Thulsa Doom

June 29th, 2011
1:18 pm

Thomas,

I did a little more research on that CNBC article on the biggest welfare states. It reports on the top 15 and you listed only the top 5 of which 4 are Dem blue states. Here is the breakdown on the other 10.

Oregon- D
Penn. – R
Mich- D
R. I. – D
Ind – R
N. Mex- D
Wash- D
Minn- D
NY- D
Verm- D
DC- D
Mass- D
TN – R
Maine- D
CA- D

The Dem blue states have it terms of biggest welfare states by a 12-3 count. It aint even close.

O...m....g.....

June 29th, 2011
1:18 pm

OMG – the same 10 people having the same argument each and every day. You guys should get your own Twitter account – or a king size bed.

Today will be my last day reading any comments on any opinion piece from the AJC…. sick of the same old crap. I’ll do my arguing at the ballot box.

Keep Up the Good Fight!

June 29th, 2011
1:18 pm

josef, I understand your point about Mardi Gras. But other than a few nuts (and granted these blogs seem to attract more than their fair share), we don’t condemn all heteros merely because of spring break episodes, the kiss-cam at the ball game, the wet t-shirt contests and more. There are some portions of the gay community doing the same things as the hetero community. And in Pensacola and other places in Florida during Spring Break there are many college kids who do not participate in the events featured on the news. I agree with you that everyone should keep it in perspective. The extremes are highlighted. For myself if someone attacks certain behavior based on sexual orientation, rather than back down, let’s ask why they exempt the behavior of members of their own sexual preference.

Dave R.

June 29th, 2011
1:19 pm

“Thanks…maybe we should bring up the Late Misunderstanding and see if we can’t get a new thread?”

I think we just did. :D

Fresh sheets in . . . 3 . . . 2 . . .

thomas

June 29th, 2011
1:20 pm

Thulsa Doom

June 29th, 2011
1:18 pm

Saw that too.

Just felt it was overkill as the point was made by 4 of 5.

But thanks for bringing that up.

By the way,

Do the R’s and D’s after each state represent if the state is a republican or democrat state? There has been some confusion about that.

[...] more: Who pays — and who doesn’t pay — income taxes – Atlanta Journal Constitution (blog) More on this:House speaker scrambles to pay late taxes – Atlanta Journal Constitution House [...]

Atlas Shrugging

June 29th, 2011
1:23 pm

Jay I relaize you studied everything from Nuclear Engineering to Climatology to earn that degree in Journalism, but, it’s obvious you skipped the economics classes.

Poor, Poor, Pitiful Thee

June 29th, 2011
1:23 pm

The only way for them to do that legally is to use the tax exemptions available to all of us. If you don’t like the result, whine to your congressman, but quit blaming the 400 for doing the smart thing with their finances. They didn’t get to be the top 400 richest by being foolish with their money.

I saved millions, no, billions, by taking advantage of that carried interest loophole and you can too. For the low low price of $19.95 plus shipping and handling, I can show you how you too can take advantage of the same tax loopholes that we once reserved for only the wealthiest.

DixieDemons

June 29th, 2011
1:23 pm

@ Poor, Poor, Pitiful Thee

Georgia leads the nation in failed banks since 2008. We lead the nation in eating through government FDIC bail out money with no end in sight. Oh well , I guess it is just good business practice used by Rapacious Republicans.

E. ATL Tax Unit

June 29th, 2011
1:24 pm

ken

June 29th, 2011
1:11 pm
At my business I do not pay any taxes. My customers pay my taxes.

That my friends sums it up about as succinctly as is possible.

Jay

June 29th, 2011
1:24 pm

I’d give y’all fresh sheets but … I gotta go to a meeting.

RogersParkRob

June 29th, 2011
1:26 pm

I wonder if your numbers are true. Gather data from a .gov site and include so the readers have something to compare. I think the government can run just fine it their was a budget, and that budget is $2.5 T.

thomas

June 29th, 2011
1:26 pm

josef

June 29th, 2011
1:10 pm

Yes I make one accusation of you then even give you ways out, in which I could see where you were not lying.

But you choose to show off your class by calling me an SOB, a jack@ss, and a b@st@rd, instead of ever explaing yourself! Classy!

Dave R.

June 29th, 2011
1:12 pm

“He, unlike others I could name, is one of the more informed and more importantly, honorable people on this blog.”

Maybe you want to rethink that after his last lil temper tantrum @ 1:10?

Or does accusing one of lying or forgetting, or misunderstanding now deserve to be called multiple names without any grounds? Classy!

Doggone/GA

June 29th, 2011
1:26 pm

“At my business I do not pay any taxes. My customers pay my taxes”

Not just your business, that’s true of ALL businesses

Dave R.

June 29th, 2011
1:26 pm

The point on state designations is one of a moving target.

Last Presidential election?

Governor?

National delegation makeup?

Legislature makeup?

Historical of any of the above for the past 10 years?

Me? I look at long-term state legislature makeup. In my mind, it is the most consistent and accurate measurement of how a state breaks out electorally.

Taxes SUCK

June 29th, 2011
1:27 pm

I have a tax bill EVERY YEAR and I have to pay more of my hard-earned money so my tard sister-in-law, who’s too lazy to get a decent job, can file a return and get $6000.00 back for her family EVEN THOUGH SHE DIDN’T PAY ANY TAXES!!! How is THAT fair?

Thulsa Doom

June 29th, 2011
1:27 pm

Thomas,

Yes. The r is repub and the d is dem. A couple of them like Rhode Island and New Mexico I wasn’t sure on so I looked up their congressional delegations and they were decidedly Democrat and blue states also in terms of how they voted in the presidential election I think. Kind of eye opening how the blue states have so many people on welfare relative to the red states.

When I get time I may do a quick census check on how many of these same states are losing populations and congressional apportionments to the red states. The general overall trend is that unquestionably the red states are gaining populations and electoral votes/reapportionment as people flee the blue states. In other words people are voting with their feet.

Dave R.

June 29th, 2011
1:28 pm

“I’d give y’all fresh sheets but … I gotta go to a meeting.”

You’re just doing that to be contrary, Jay!

td

June 29th, 2011
1:29 pm

Thulsa Doom

June 29th, 2011
1:18 pm

Since when did Penn turn into a R state? The numbers should be 13-2

Poor, Poor, Pitiful Thee

June 29th, 2011
1:30 pm

Georgia leads the nation in failed banks since 2008.

We’re Number ONE and we’re not even to the finish line yet.

Thulsa Doom

June 29th, 2011
1:32 pm

td,

Penn I wasn’t sure about. They are very close and I think they even may have gone blue in the last presidential election. So yeah, maybe they probably are more of a blue state and maybe it really should be 13-2. I just slated them R anyway just so as to not to even further embarrass the Dems on here.

josef

June 29th, 2011
1:32 pm

good fight

I agree with what you’re saying there. I wasn’t being condemnatory per se. I love having a good time and a good street party. I’m just a little sensitive on certain ones. It’s sort of like when somebody does a photo spread highlighting something, say Jewish, and there’s an overrepresentation of the Chassidim, or when somebody does, say Romany, and there’s an overrepresntation of the caravan, dancing, violin players and fortune tellers, or Indians and an overreprentation of the feather wearing…it’s not as though that’s not some of who and what we are (and proud), but hardly who we are in the main…like I said, I’m embarassed and ashamed, not of those doing it, but that we still live in a society that highlights that to the exclusion of the boring, daily life Joe Shmo…

Poor, Poor, Pitiful Thee

June 29th, 2011
1:33 pm

I have a tax bill EVERY YEAR and I have to pay more of my hard-earned money so my tard sister-in-law, who’s too lazy to get a decent job, can file a return and get $6000.00 back for her family EVEN THOUGH SHE DIDN’T PAY ANY TAXES!!! How is THAT fair?

It’s not! Now go kick your brother’s ass and tell him to get a job and support his family proper like.

thomas

June 29th, 2011
1:35 pm

Dave R.

June 29th, 2011
1:26 pm

Agreed they will forever change constantly.

But for one to place R’s and D’s after a state’s name, and then come with a statement of “I never said they were republican states.”

well something is a lil off about those two post being made within a short time of each other.

If they never said that they were republican states then maybe you can tell me what was meant by the R after tennessee for example?

WOODSTOCK MIKE

June 29th, 2011
1:35 pm

Obama announced today that he wants to raise taxes on millionaires and billionaires. See, if that was actually true not many Republicans would have an issuse. However, what income level does Obama consider millionaires and billionaires??

People making 250K aren’t millionaires and billionaires…

In times like this where revenues are badly needed I have no issue with raising taxes on someone that makes millions or billions. But if it’s the same old lie and only means raising taxes on a family that makes 250K/yr it will never get passed.

Again, someone making 250K in a year is hardly a millionaire or billionaire…

thomas

June 29th, 2011
1:37 pm

Poor, Poor, Pitiful Thee

June 29th, 2011
1:30 pm

Every state has to be number 1 in something!

Its just that every states #1 ain’t something to be proud of.

Hell I live in Florida though so………. I feel your pain, or shame whichever the case may be!

Get Real

June 29th, 2011
1:37 pm

Just more liberal progressive spew, it truly gets old; I am with Leg…need to check out to go earn some money to pay more taxes..

josef

June 29th, 2011
1:37 pm

DAVE

Out to prove a point, is he? :-) Did respond, though! Oh, well, we tried…

Poor, Poor, Pitiful Thee

June 29th, 2011
1:38 pm

Uh Oh. Jay had an unscheduled? meeting to attend. At least it’s not Friday afternoon. You know what those Friday afternoon unscheduled meetings during a recession were/are for. They should do it on Monday morning instead and maybe throw in coffee and donuts to help ease the pain. Especially if it is Krispy Kreme donuts. They’re the best.

Get Real

June 29th, 2011
1:38 pm

WOODSTOCK MIKE OMG, you mean Obama is not being truthful, say it ain’t so…

stands for decibels

June 29th, 2011
1:39 pm

By the way, that cnbc list of “welfare states” is bullsh-t.

http://www.cjr.org/the_audit/cnbc_misleads_on_welfare_state_1.php

CNBC accepts as fact the notion that programs like Social Security and unemployment insurance are welfare programs. Your grandpa would knock you upside the head with his cane for saying that.

And I suspect you guys knew it, but choose to post this crap anyway.

Dave R.

June 29th, 2011
1:39 pm

thomas, I think you’re hung up on one of the rare instances where josef’s wording was imprecise.

Poor, Poor, Pitiful Thee

June 29th, 2011
1:40 pm

However, what income level does Obama consider millionaires and billionaires??

That usually depends on how many digits there are in their AGI.

AngryRedMarsWoman

June 29th, 2011
1:40 pm

“I suggest that we remove ALL deductions, save easy to prove donations to charitable organizations. Organizations that have to be proven. Streamline the process so that (almost) no IRS is needed at the federal or state level.”

The only deductions should be for other income taxes paid….every other deduction (eg mortgage, childcare, charities, etc) is merely social engineering by the government, which should have no place in the tax system.

josef

June 29th, 2011
1:41 pm

good fight

Sort of a bit of a leap here on what we’re talking about, but that “visual” image thingie…I’ve noticed on the news now that the outside has been let in under highly monitored conditions…in the street scenes, etc. coming out of Damascus most of the women are unveiled, yet when you go to those from elsewhere, the veil is much more in evidence…it makes you wonder what the handlers under Assad are being instructed to do…

Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)

June 29th, 2011
1:41 pm

Well, I ain’t worry about taxes. If they raise mine I ain’t paying anyway.

I decided that after watching Fox News. You know that guy with the ad that says “Do you owe $10,000 or more in taxes?” Anyway, that ad shows up on Fox News about ten times as much as it shows up anywhere else.

I ain’t filing anymore. If they come after me and try and sock me with a big tax bill, I’m just turning everything over to that guy’s law firm. He says they can get you out of a tax mess for pennies on the dollar. Heck, even I can afford a few pennies.

thomas

June 29th, 2011
1:42 pm

josef

June 29th, 2011
1:37 pm

At what time did you respond to what YOU meant by placing R’s and D’s beside trhe states names?

Maybe I missed your explanation and owe you an apology.

Just haven’t seen an explanation of what the R’s and D’s meant?

Especially since your claim is to have NEVER said they were republican states.

I only set out to make a point when someone who is challenged on their position decides to start calling names instead of defending it.

Did it make you feel better to call me those names? Do you feel like more of a man now than you did when you woke up today?

Mighty Righty

June 29th, 2011
1:44 pm

Left wing management

June 29th, 2011
1:03 pm
Mighty Righty: “I am sure it comes as a surprise to you that the entire western world is in a recession including all socialist countries. ”

So how are they doing? They’re unemployment is well below ours and German manufacturing is positively booming.

So you really don’t have much to say in objection to a system like that, do you?

I have never been afraid to admit when I’m wrong and if I’m wrong I will so post. Right now I need to do some research. Back at ya soon.

thomas

June 29th, 2011
1:45 pm

Dave R.

June 29th, 2011
1:39 pm

Only hung up because when questioned on it…. I was called an SOB, then a B@st@rd and a Jackass too.

But with your high moral compass you chose to tell me how wrong I was for questioning saint josef, with even a mention to him?

come on, thats a joke right?

thomas

June 29th, 2011
1:47 pm

stands for decibels

June 29th, 2011
1:39 pm

I do consider social security and unemployment welfare as it is money being given out by the government, that usually exceeds the amount paid in by said individuals who are reciving it.

But I suspect you knew that before you posted your crap anyway?

Keep Up the Good Fight!

June 29th, 2011
1:48 pm

josef, we live in a world where the fish bowl is distorted for the media and by the media. Fortunately for some of us, we can try to see beyond the manipulation.

DollarDawg43

June 29th, 2011
1:49 pm

Don’t waste your time arguing politics, here is where they are getting us all. If you have a bank account you are subsidizing bank failures and even the ability of bankers who created those failures to dodge responsibility:

A select few bankers are now landing executive positions with the bank that purchased the very failure they caused. Two weeks ago a bank in South Metro Atlanta failed and the FDIC estimates the cost to the Deposit Insurance Fund to be $80.0 million. That does not include the investment lost by shareholders.

The failed bank’s top two executives now have cushy, executive postions with the new entity. For them, it is business as usual. Their compensation packages will allow them to replace their now worthless stock in a failed institution with stock in a healthy bank that is already planning to buy other banks as they fail.

For individuals like this, not only is there not any accountability, they will profit immensely as time goes by. You may wonder how they pulled this off. It just so happens the top executive at the failed bank was a college buddy of one of the top executves at the purchasing institution. Pretty cozy, huh?

COULDIT BE

June 29th, 2011
1:50 pm

By the way Jay, how much do you pay!!!!!!!!!!!

@@

June 29th, 2011
1:51 pm

Today is one of those rare days where I learn something new.

Sweden doesn’t have a minimum wage set by the government?

Who knew…

Fred

June 29th, 2011
1:51 pm

thomas

June 29th, 2011
1:47 pm

I do consider social security and unemployment welfare as it is money being given out by the government, that usually exceeds the amount paid in by said individuals who are reciving it
==========================

Really? You don’t have a CLUE as to how unemployment works then. Perhaps you should research it.

Left wing management

June 29th, 2011
1:52 pm

Well good on you Mighty for not replying purely out of reflex, but instead taking time to consider the facts.

Dave R.

June 29th, 2011
1:53 pm

Well, thomas, you see, it’s like this.

I can tolerate being called just about any name you or any others on this blog wish to call me, but you (and anyone else) who dares to call me a liar? That’s unacceptable.

As explained before, you do not know what josef knew or was thinking at the time of his post, therefore you have no basis on which to accuse him of lying. While I would not have returned the same names josef used in responding to your insistence that he lied (heck, mine might have been more colorful), I would simply have told you how wrong you were to accuse me of lying and simply cut off all further discussions with you.

And frankly, based on your continuing insistence to drag this issue out even further, rather than move on, josef’s name-calling may have been more accurate than earlier thought. ;)

josef

June 29th, 2011
1:54 pm

FRED

Ciao Mec!
Comment es-tu été? Longtemps, sans voir. Prêt à se battre?
:-)

thomas

June 29th, 2011
1:57 pm

Fred

June 29th, 2011
1:51 pm

They pay some but the employer must contribute too.

Therfore they are getting back more than they put in.

If one is on unemployment benefits for the full amount of time it is weel within reason to comprehend that they are getting more than they paid in. therefore they are reciving some type of welfare, since the employer has to pay a federal tax on the first portion an employee makes each year that is designated for unemployment benefits.

or do you see unemployment benfits as a form of a savings account?

Keep Up the Good Fight!

June 29th, 2011
1:58 pm

Research….we don’t need no stinkin research… :D

AmVet

June 29th, 2011
1:59 pm

Best figures i found showed about 63-67% of whites were republican.

But if you say 90…

Hello? Is anyone home??

I said 90% of Republicans are white. NOT 90% of whites are Republican, td.

Reading is fundamental…

Thulsa Doom

June 29th, 2011
2:00 pm

stands for decibels

June 29th, 2011
1:39 pm

By the way, that cnbc list of “welfare states” is bullsh-t.

http://www.cjr.org/the_audit/cnbc_misleads_on_welfare_state_1.php

CNBC accepts as fact the notion that programs like Social Security and unemployment insurance are welfare programs. Your grandpa would knock you upside the head with his cane for saying that.

And I suspect you guys knew it, but choose to post this crap anyway.

stands for decibels,

Lemme help you out there pardner. If social security counting as a welfare program seriously skewed the stats then isn’t it obvious who would be the no. 1 state with its enormous population of retired folks living on social security? Florida ring a bell genius? As it is Florida was not even in the top 15 so how is it that soc sec. skews the stats here? Your arguments are way too easy to obliterate. You bore me.

Doggone/GA

June 29th, 2011
2:00 pm

“Therfore they are getting back more than they put in”

Depends on which way you turn it to look at it. Yes, the employee pays something and the employer pays something, but in reality what the employer pays is compensation to the employee…it is just sent straight to unemployment pool. No different from things like insurance payments, withholding taxes, income taxes. It’s compenation to the employee…but the employee never sees it in their paycheck.

thomas

June 29th, 2011
2:02 pm

Dave R.

June 29th, 2011
1:53 pm

So i would not be lying If I said I have never typed your name?

Nice!

And do not allow yourself to forget…. that you carried on this for longer than it needed to be as well, by telling me how i should treat saint josef.

So as you said “josef’s name-calling may have been more accurate than earlier thought and should have included you as well.

Mighty Righty

June 29th, 2011
2:03 pm

June 29th, 2011
1:44 pm
Left wing management

June 29th, 2011
1:03 pm

You are right and I was wrong. An understanding of the below analysis of Germany’s success incorporates actions you won’t like. I suggest you will find them interesting.

The second explanation for Germany’s renaissance is that the country finally embraced structural reform of its economy at least two decades after Margaret Thatcher and Ronald Reagan pioneered deregulation, privatisation and welfare reform in the UK and the US.

What happened, according to supporters of this theory, is that unlike Britain and America, Germany coped well with the oil shocks of the 1970s and 1980s so saw no need to change anything in the 1980s. Towards the end of that decade, and increasingly after reunification, the economy became increasingly sclerotic, but the warning signs were ignored by Helmut Kohl.

But by the early 2000s, the evidence of slow growth and high levels of unemployment was too powerful to ignore, so Gerhard Schröder introduced the Agenda 2010 reforms which cut business taxes, slashed the top rate of income tax, made pensions less generous, cut unemployment pay and allowed the shops to stay open later.

“Schröder didn’t get the full credit for what he did,” Mayer said. “He attacked all the sacred cows and paid the price by losing the election to Merkel. Industry embarked on a ruthless cost-cutting programme, they exploited new production techniques and IT to make their operations leaner and more profitable. Some parts of manufacturing were moved overseas but not all of it.

“It is an amazing comeback. The country seems to be a lot more dynamic.”

Flassbeck has a different view. He blames the timidity of the unions on the changes introduced by the former SDP/Green coalition. “There is no pressure for higher wages because of the fear of being fired. Schröder killed the unions. That’s a nice paradox.”

Left wing management

June 29th, 2011
2:03 pm

@@: “Sweden doesn’t have a minimum wage set by the government? Who knew?”

It falls under collective bargaining.

Joe Mama

June 29th, 2011
2:04 pm

thomas — “or do you see unemployment benfits as a form of a savings account?”

They’re actually a form of insurance.

If your employer has an HR department, give them a call and ask them about it. Ask them if unemployment benefits are actually unemployment *insurance.*

Not to be difficult, but in your example, you suggested that getting back more than you paid in is a form of welfare. Would you consider homeowner’s or auto insurance to be welfare, if you suffered a large covered loss within the first year or two of owning a policy?

Many of our regular posters (on both political sides) have spoken about the need to plan ahead and be properly insured against bad events. I don’t think our conservative insurance proponents would agree with the notion that insurance payouts could be considered welfare.

Dave R.

June 29th, 2011
2:04 pm

“So i would not be lying If I said I have never typed your name?”

No, I would first accuse you of being mistaken.

Scott

June 29th, 2011
2:07 pm

I pay my share of taxes. Could I afford to pay more? Yeah, probably and I would likely not feel much of an impact. My problem with a tax increase is not that it would hurt me. It is that I know it will not get wasted like it has time and time again. It will not go to the people who really need it. Nope…instead my hard earned money will end up getting funneled into some stupid pet project or research study that will not help this country one bit. Yep, that money was used by some incompetent politician to buy votes. It is eerily similar to how Social Security funds have been handled. I really wish I could have all that was I forced to waste in that Ponzi scheme back in my hands. Hell, I would probably be retired now and I am only 34 years old. Instead, I likely will not see a dime of that money come back to me. That’s okay. I never counted on it anyways when I planned my retirement unlike these fools that think it will actually be there for them. Never put your trust in the government….NEVER!!!

thomas

June 29th, 2011
2:07 pm

AmVet

June 29th, 2011
1:59 pm

Apologies,

i did misread it.

But you also said 90 something percent, and it turns out it is 80 something.

So i was wrong twice again apologies.

thomas

June 29th, 2011
2:09 pm

Dave R.

June 29th, 2011
2:04 pm

i offered that as a possible explaination for the falsehood, after I was called an SOB.

But that was never given as the reason.

So i guess we are alike cause I did ask if they were mistaken.

Uncle Jed

June 29th, 2011
2:09 pm

Anyway, that ad shows up on Fox News about ten times as much as it shows up anywhere else.
+++++++++++++++++++++++

Well, isn’t the point in paying to advertise on televison to have the advertisement viewed by a large audience? You prove that point, as you stated that you have seen it multiple times; on FOX.

Fletch

June 29th, 2011
2:09 pm

thomas-”If one is on unemployment benefits for the full amount of time it is weel within reason to comprehend that they are getting more than they paid in.”

Actually they don’t pay into it at all. The State charges the employer a SUTA rate at minimum of 2.7 % on all employee wages earned up to $8,500.00. Teh Fed charges a FUTA rate of .80% on wages earned. The benfits awarded to the employee are based upon total earnings within a set number of quarters as well as the pay rate that the employee earned wages at. i.e. If you nake at leasst $60,000.00 a year, the most you will recieve is $1,200.00 a month in UI. If you are out of work for 6 months, you will easily exceed the amount of the SUTA and FUTA. UI is 100% owned by the employer. or in the case of Georgia, since the UI fund was depleted a while ago, we borrow about 1.5 million a day from the Federal Government to pay the new and existing claims.

GT

June 29th, 2011
2:10 pm

Now with that said imagine who has the biggest pull in Washington, corporate lobbyist. The government because of international trade has become a secondary power to the corporation. We compliment the writers of the constitution for their insight and even included mention of slaves, but they never invisioned the powerful conporate interest that would rival the goernment. Much of the money we spend on foreign policy is determined by corporate interest, even the wars we fight.

stives

June 29th, 2011
2:11 pm

Nothing has really suprised me about living and working here in America. We just don’t get it…and that is why we are in the predictments we are in to day! With all of our great resources and money we ahve abused; I have known for years that…not one person who is a U.S. Citizen should be hungry, poor, homelessness, no health insurance; cities with a lot of property and etc., there should be no real reason for America and its citizens to be in this type of ongoing environment. We have to much money, yet, we let the rest of the world see us for what we really are….disgraceful to our own, yet, chairable to otherss!

Scott

June 29th, 2011
2:11 pm

BTW…I see Obama is back at it saying that we need to get more infrastructure done. Apparently, he has more “shovel ready” jobs that need to be filled. Its funny that he didn’t use that term this time. Perhaps he should go back to the unions that he in essence gave stimulus money to and ask for it back? Maybe he could go into his electoral war chest he built using stimulus money and use that. What a joke. You libs that voted for this clown destroyed the country.

thomas

June 29th, 2011
2:11 pm

Joe Mama

June 29th, 2011
2:04 pm

Homeowners and auto insurane is not paid to the government the way that employer’s unemployment tax is paid to the gov.

If it was ran by a private company I would not see it as such.

thomas

June 29th, 2011
2:12 pm

Fletch

June 29th, 2011
2:09 pm

Some states do have them pay into it.

Uncle Jed

June 29th, 2011
2:14 pm

Most of them DO have skin in the game, Leg Lamp. That “skin” is merely acquired through the payroll tax rather than the income tax, a fact that you and others for some reason studiously ignore.

Again, the payroll tax raises close to the same amount as the income tax. How and why is it possible to just exclude that fact from your reality?
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Gross and net are two different amounts of skin. After factoring in the various assistance programs and straight handouts and tax credits, it may well be that many thousands or millions of “taxpayers” subject to a payroll tax, are effectively apying no tax and thus have no skin in the game.

stands for decibels

June 29th, 2011
2:15 pm

Joe Mama @ 2.04, let’s face facts.

For years we DFHs have occasionally chuckled amongst ourselves over the irony of how (generally, not always) red states tend to be net recipients of federal largess while (generally, not always) blue states tend to put in more than they get back.

This zombie lie from CNBC is a rather pathetic (and incredibly belated) attempt to reframe this. Nothing more or less really.

mm

June 29th, 2011
2:20 pm

Glad to see Obama grew a pair.

The GOP thinks bipartisan means they get everything they want without giving up anything.

We see what the GOP stands for. Protect the rich job killers and starve women and children.

Doggone/GA

June 29th, 2011
2:20 pm

” thus have no skin in the game”

They do, and you’re take on it is not neccessarily the correct one. Those who are working hard, paying their bills, and spending their money have “skin” in the game EVEN IF ultimately what they spend on taxes is returned to them. That you don’t WANT to see that is your problem, not theirs.

Uncle Jed

June 29th, 2011
2:20 pm

Election 2012: Generic Presidential Ballot
Generic Republican Candidate 46%, Obama 42%

“Republicans also hold a seven-point lead over Democrats on the Generic Congressional Ballot for the week ending Sunday, June 26. Republicans have led on this ballot every week since June 2009.”

“In every matchup tested so far this year against named GOP challengers, the president’s support has stayed between 42% and 49%. An incumbent who earns support below 50% is generally considered politically vulnerable. The president’s total job approval ratings are a good indicator of what percentage of the vote he may earn in the 2012 presidential race. Aside from a brief bounce in support following the killing of Osama bin Laden, Obama’s approval ratings have hovered in the high 40s for the past 18 months.”

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/elections/election_2012/election_2012_presidential_election/generic_presidential_ballot/election_2012_generic_presidential_ballot

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Pssst (it’s the economy, stupid)

AJC Editorial Board Meeting Consensus

June 29th, 2011
2:22 pm

After President Obama’s recent speech we have concluded that…………………we were duped in 2010.
.
For the sake of every American,
we will all refrain from voting for a President in 2012.
.
We will refer this decision to more intelligent people…………….and hopefully learn from our mistake.
Thank you………..and may the State bless you.

mm

June 29th, 2011
2:22 pm

“Perhaps he should go back to the unions that he in essence gave stimulus money to and ask for it back?”

Still spouting that lie?

Mighty Righty

June 29th, 2011
2:23 pm

The ignorance of some of you is astounding. Unemployment is paid solely by the employer. Got that! Employees pay nothing toward unemployment.

Uncle Jed

June 29th, 2011
2:25 pm

…Apparently, he has more “shovel ready” jobs that need to be filled…
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

It has gotten to the point where everytime BHO speaks, there is a need for a shovel. The horse trainers down at the circus may soon need to hire some probationers to fill vacancies created by our fearless leader up in D.C.

Joe Mama

June 29th, 2011
2:26 pm

thomas — “Homeowners and auto insurane is not paid to the government the way that employer’s unemployment tax is paid to the gov. If it was ran by a private company I would not see it as such.”

You’re getting back more than you paid in either way, and that’s what you were complaining about. I don’t begrudge you your point of view, but I think you’re splitting hairs here.

So how about this? Crop insurance is a Federal program that’s underwritten and funded by the government, but you have to buy insurance from a private insurer (I believe homeowner’s flood insurance works the same way as this). Depending on the size of your loss and the program under which your crops were insured, your payout could come from the insurer, the government, or both.

What’s your opinion on that? If you bought a hail policy and a hailstorm ruined your corn crop the next day, would you be unfairly getting out more than you had paid in?

Keep Up the Good Fight!

June 29th, 2011
2:27 pm

You libs that voted for this clown destroyed the country.

Well not really Scotty….but then you dont really care about factual statements do you? We’re still trying to clean up the mess you left and we do have a deteriorating infrastructure which will require extensive repair and update….but if you feel things are okay, I have a bridge for you in MN…oh wait…I have some debris for you..

LydiasDad

June 29th, 2011
2:30 pm

They’re not even including the millions of illegals who don’t pay tax, yet receive free benefits (education, health care, welfare) every day. It’s disgusting.

Joe Mama

June 29th, 2011
2:32 pm

LydiasDad — “They’re not even including the millions of illegals who don’t pay tax”

The next time I go to Publix, I’mma tell ‘em I’m an illegal immigrant so’s I don’t have to pay the sales tax. ;)

mm

June 29th, 2011
2:32 pm

“You libs that voted for this clown destroyed the country”

This proves that only low information folks vote republican.

Republican presidents account for about 10 trillion of our 14 trillion debt. Obama added less than 2 trillion (the stimulus and putting the wars in the budget).

Uncle Jed

June 29th, 2011
2:33 pm

Obama Campaign Signals Fundraising Fail
by Keith Koffler on June 29, 2011, 12:54 pm

“The Obama campaign appears to be signaling that its fundraising totals for the second quarter of the year – the first since President Obama announced for reelection – will not be as robust as the campaign would like.

In an email to campaign supporters today, President Obama unmistakably sought to downplay money.

We’re closing the books on the first fundraising quarter of the 2012 race at midnight tomorrow.

A lot of folks will be interpreting our numbers as a measure of this campaign’s support.

They’re not wrong, but they are wrong about why. Cue the shovel brigade(Jed added)

We measure our success not in dollars but in people — in the number of everyday Americans who’ve chosen to give whatever they can afford because they know we’ve got more work to do.*

Campaign officials revealed during the last week that they have set a target of raising $60 million for the quarter from at least 450,000 donors.

But even $60 million would not seem to be a very ambitious goal for Obama. He raised the same amount during the second quarter of 2007, just after he announced his 2008 campaign.

The campaign is hoping to raise up to $1 billion total for the 2012 election.

The email reiterates a call for donors to give at least $5 in order to be automatically entered into a raffle for dinner with Obama and Vice President Biden.”
http://www.whitehousedossier.com/2011/06/29/obama-campaign-signals-fundraising-fail/
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Did you buy the Cracker Jacks for the named commodity, or was it the prize?
How about your childhood favorite cereal? Happy Meal, anybody?

Thulsa Doom

June 29th, 2011
2:33 pm

AJC Editorial Board,

Nonetheless how much is anyone on here willing to wager that the AJC endorses Obama for the presidency for 2012? Odds anyone? I’m billing to bet a friendly $100 wager that no matter how bad things get that the AJC editorial board will endorse Obama for 2012. Anyone doubt that? Bueller….

Rich

June 29th, 2011
2:34 pm

Let’s try the Fair Tax.

Left wing management

June 29th, 2011
2:34 pm

Thanks Mighty, very interesting discussion of Germany. As has always been the case, Germany is in some ways on the opposite side of the curve from the Anglo-American economies, but by just one “phase difference” as it were. And there are reasons for that that go way back in its history.

The interesting thing about Schröder is that he was adopting the Bill Clinton “Third Way” playbook almost straight down the line, with very similar results.

One thing that strikes me is this: “Some parts of manufacturing were moved overseas but not all of it.” And as we know in the South, this is true. Lots of manufacturing has moved offshore.

But I wonder: if the equivalent of today’s GOP in the US had been completely in control in Germany, would that bulk of a strong manufacturing base have remained there? The answer of course we can see just by looking at the state of manufacturing in the US today.

Doggone/GA

June 29th, 2011
2:34 pm

“They’re not even including the millions of illegals who don’t pay tax”

Why is it so difficult for the anti-undocumented immigrants group to understand the difference between “pays no taxes” and “pays no FEDERAL INCOME taxes”? And why do they find it so difficult to understand that a lot of those uncodumented workers DO pay Federal Income taxes on the false SS number they are using.

They DO pay taxes, even when they don’t pay Federal Income taxes.

Fred

June 29th, 2011
2:34 pm

Curses on you Josef for speaking to me in the devils tongue.

I’m fine thanks. I’ve been doing more reading than posting lately (was busy). I have been set upon by evil little girls. One of my daughters friends currently is in Singapore and was here for vaction (and her father for consultation), so she was at my house since Monday, and BEFORE she left another of my daughter’s friends (who moved to OK a couple of years ago came into town) and will be staying for the Lord only knows how long. At LEAST until Friday. After a week the giggling starts having a sinister sound to it.

mm

June 29th, 2011
2:35 pm

“They’re not even including the millions of illegals who don’t pay tax, yet receive free benefits (education, health care, welfare) every day. It’s disgusting.”

First of all, if you are illegal, how do you get welfare?

Secondly, if people weren’t hiring them and paying them under the table, they wouldn’t be here.

Doggone/GA

June 29th, 2011
2:35 pm

“Let’s try the Fair Tax”

Let’s not

Jefferson

June 29th, 2011
2:36 pm

People hollering “fairness” are like children. It don’t have to be fair, it won’t seem fair and who cares — it is what it is. Life ain’t fair. The more you make the more you pay, the more you get to keep, quit crying and enjoy your life while you are alive. This is the way it is, grow up.

Fred

June 29th, 2011
2:37 pm

Thomas: Unemployment tax (they like to call it “insurance”) is paid entirely by the EMPLOYER (at least in Georgia). For instance, if I write a check to myself I have to pay unemployment on myself. The kicker is that AS the employer, i can never collect any of the “benefits.”

AmVet

June 29th, 2011
2:37 pm

Not to worry, thomas.

And when you’ve reached the level I have, you’ll no longer have to concern yourself with misstating facts, etc! (eye roll)

Hey! Where’s the discussion that JB brought up some months back, that 22 out of the 24 (I think) states that McCain carried get more from Uncle Sam than they pay in?

Lil BB has a favorite word for such folks!

Thulsa Doom

June 29th, 2011
2:38 pm

We’re still trying to clean up the mess you left…

There ya go! The overused blame Bush card. Translation- Obama is a terrible potus but we’re going to spend 4 years blaming Bush anyway to deflect from this disaster of a presidency.

BSB folks what do it stand for?

Blame Bush
Scream racism
Bash palin/bachman

Jefferson

June 29th, 2011
2:38 pm

If there were no unemployment insurance more wages should be paid.

stands for decibels

June 29th, 2011
2:38 pm

Let’s try the Fair Tax.

Let some other country try it first and see how it works out for them.

(Funny how no other country wants to try this can’t-miss/good-golly-it-fixes-everything tax scheme, huh?)

josef

June 29th, 2011
2:38 pm

JOE MAMA

I keep trying to find out where I can get one of those tax-exempt, illegal alien cards myself. Come in handy when gassing up, not having to pay that part of the rent that goes for property taxes, beer and alcohol…valuable little document that would be…

Rich

June 29th, 2011
2:39 pm

Keep Up the Good Fight! – Should the federal government be paying to repair state and local bridges?

The one in MN was a design issue, not a maintenance issue.

Fred

June 29th, 2011
2:41 pm

Thulsa: The Cox family are firm democrats I seem to remember. I can’t EVER remember the AJC endorsing a Republican candidate. I could be mistaken but i don’t think I am.

If however you DO find a fool to bet you, ask them if they wanna double down cause I’ll damn sure match your offer…… :D

Rich

June 29th, 2011
2:41 pm

stands for decibels – The Fair Tax will not fix everything, but it will be better than the mess we have today.

The USA usually does things first. It usually works out well.

BADA BING

June 29th, 2011
2:42 pm

You would think that with the recession, companies would be scrambling for business. I need some trees taken down. I called 10 tree services, 3 responded, and 2 came out w/estimate. I have called kitchen cabinet cos., hardly any responses, online car parts cos. for car parts, none eager to help me find some vintage parts. Does anyone else have this problem w/services?

josef

June 29th, 2011
2:42 pm

FRED

:-) And you have my sympathies on the sinister giggles…

Thulsa Doom

June 29th, 2011
2:43 pm

mm

June 29th, 2011
2:35 pm

“They’re not even including the millions of illegals who don’t pay tax, yet receive free benefits (education, health care, welfare) every day. It’s disgusting.”

First of all, if you are illegal, how do you get welfare?

mm,

Easy. Your American born children qualify for U.S. benefits so you can draw food stamps, etc. on their behalf.

If one or both illegal parents are working their income is prorated for their children and they are able to get full assistance even if the total household income is over the non prorated income of a citizen. The child can be a newborn and receive a full allotment of food stamps and get WIC. They will get free formula which is all a newborn will need but tell me who will benefit the food stamps???

Mighty Righty

June 29th, 2011
2:45 pm

Thulsa Doom

June 29th, 2011
2:38 pm
We’re still trying to clean up the mess you left…

There ya go! The overused blame Bush card. Translation- Obama is a terrible potus but we’re going to spend 4 years blaming Bush anyway to deflect from this disaster of a presidency.

As I posted yesterday, the Blame Bush boat has left. Obama is now the skipper of the boat. The boat is stuck at the dock and the Bamster doesn’t know how to get it moving.

Thulsa Doom

June 29th, 2011
2:45 pm

Fred,

I could be mistaken but I believe the AJC even endorsed Jimmy Carter for re-election. It seems someone had posted such on this board so I don’t know if that’s true or not. I would not be surprised in the least of course if it was.

seabeau

June 29th, 2011
2:47 pm

Jay!! All these graphs and stuff!! Are you gonna get a blackboard next??

Joe Mama

June 29th, 2011
2:48 pm

Doom — “Bash palin/bachman”

Come now, Mr. Doom. There are plenty of conservatives who slam on Palin and Bachmann with gusto.

Fred

June 29th, 2011
2:48 pm

BADA BING

June 29th, 2011
2:42 pm
You would think that with the recession, companies would be scrambling for business. I need some trees taken down. I called 10 tree services, 3 responded, and 2 came out w/estimate. I have called kitchen cabinet cos., hardly any responses, online car parts cos. for car parts, none eager to help me find some vintage parts. Does anyone else have this problem w/services?
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Nope but I’ll build your cabinets, and call 404cuttree for the trees. Ask for Heidi.

Fed up

June 29th, 2011
2:49 pm

Why don’t you do a similar article about who doesn’t pay taxes in Georgia..and name names?!

Joe Mama

June 29th, 2011
2:50 pm

Doom — “I could be mistaken but I believe the AJC even endorsed Jimmy Carter for re-election.”

If it were true, you don’t suppose it would have had anything to do with him having been a Georgia boy, do you? ;)

Thulsa Doom

June 29th, 2011
2:50 pm

Mighty Right,

Debbie Wasserman whose title I think is head of the DNC stated something to the effect. “We own this economy or Obama owns this economy”. Didn’t make Dems very happy to hear this acknowledgement. Nevertheless I still believe the blame bush card will be played right up to the day Obama has to vacate the premises. BTW I lightly sprained my ankle jogging yesterday. Gotta be Bush’s fault. Just gotta be.

Jefferson

June 29th, 2011
2:50 pm

Income taxes are optional, don’t make much income, pay little or no tax. Simple.

BADA BING

June 29th, 2011
2:51 pm

Fred, when I call Heidi, she won’t be yodeling, will she?

josef

June 29th, 2011
2:52 pm

BADA

Was talking to a fellow earlier this morning who was doing some tree removal-trimming. He was watching his crew working away, he having a cup of coffee. I asked him about bidness…he said he couldn’t keep up and was having to turn customers away, the smaller companies dependent on the day labor having problems staffing. “I don’t have that problem, though. I have my crew already and they’re all…” Before he could finish, one of his “crew” came by, and said, “yeah! He don’t hire illegals, He has a crew of anchor babies and we’re a lot cheaper…” Daddy shot a look and said, “yeah that may be, but look at the side benefits, all you can eat, your own room…”

0311/0317 - 1811/1801

June 29th, 2011
2:52 pm

Headline: “As long as Obama’s in the Oval Office or on the golf course or in some diner eating greasy hamburgers or in charge of the executive branch, as long as his party controls any part of Congress, this nation cannot recover,” Limbaugh said on his program. “We do not have a chance. This country does not have a chance with Barack Obama remaining in the Oval Office.”

“We’ve just been through 29 months of socialism,” Limbaugh said. “It’s miserable. It’s depressing. It’s stifling. It destroys the national mood. We need to contain the government.”

Well, ………………………. there you go.

Cletus Turdeau

June 29th, 2011
2:52 pm

Reading yesterday about shelf cooperations, I continue to be amazed at the diabolically brilliant ways the rich dodge the tax man. A few of these ways are actually legal too.

@@

June 29th, 2011
2:52 pm

LWM:

It falls under collective bargaining.

I know…was reading about that too. In anticipation of an economic downturn, employers are looking for zero in wage increases. It’s a wait and see as to whether employees will be in agreement.

Connecticut’s Gov. Malloy (D) didn’t fare too well on his attempts to negotiate with the unions.

Funny! jay hasn’t had anything to offer on that “SOAB”.

===================================

BADA:

Aren’t you the guy who likes lizards?

Thulsa Doom

June 29th, 2011
2:53 pm

Joe Mama,

A valid point indeed. But I think that in his first election when he won the presidency his own state voted against him- not sure but I think that’s what happened. I’m pretty sure Georgia voted against him at least once and maybe both times that he ran. If indeed they voted against him the first time then that would be pretty amazing.

Joe Mama

June 29th, 2011
2:53 pm

Bada — “Does anyone else have this problem w/services?”

Not me. I needed a mover, and everybody I contacted got right back to me. And whenever we have workers in our neighborhood, they stick flyers on everyone’s mailbox letting folks know they are there, what they do and (usually) offering a discount if you engage them for services while they’re still working in the neighborhood. I had a tree service leave me such a flyer just this week; if we weren’t tied up with other stuff, I probably would have asked them for an estimate on a couple of trees I want to take down.

Lt Col Razorback

June 29th, 2011
2:53 pm

Jay….Jay,

Why do you complain that 3,000 “tax units” with incomes over $2.18 million paid no income tax at all? Your argument should be that 4,000 (or whatever number it is) “tax units” paid any income taxes on their $2.18+ million! Why?

Because income taxes are nothing more than the redistribution of wealth from “tax units” who worked hard to earn their $2.18+ million to “tax units” who didn’t work hard enough to earn that income level, myself being one of them. Redistribution of wealth is a socialist concept, the last time I checked, and one look at the Soviet Union, East Germany, Poland, or Czechoslovakia gives us the answer about what happens with nations who embraced socialism…they all failed!! If governments take away the incentive of the possibility that “hard work” leads to wealth and “not so hard work” leads to getting something for nothing, then most in the socialist society who opted for the “hard work” strategy will change their option to taking the “not so hard work” strategy. Eventually the whole “not so hard” work society will become one that is unproductive and it WILL FAIL!!

Common Sense

June 29th, 2011
2:53 pm

“Second, while the percentage of revenue raised through the personal income tax has remained relatively stable since World War II”

So as more and more left the income tax rolls, the burden rose on the rest.

Amazing how many in this nation want something for nothing.

46.4 % at the current time.

Beep Beep

June 29th, 2011
2:55 pm

12 million illegal immigrants, crack heads, unemployable losers, people in our penal
establishments, leftovers from Katrina, half of Mexico, some of the Congress and most of the Senate.

Jefferson

June 29th, 2011
2:55 pm

Anything that Limbaugh don’t like is good. Anybody who likes Limbaugh, I don’t.

Mighty Righty

June 29th, 2011
2:56 pm

Jay is at a meeting. Probably going over the newest Obama talking points. How to make 9% unemployment look like it’s good for the economy or how the Obamacare “end of life panels” will help everyone to live longer. Or maybe, how Obamanomics will just make it seem like we are living longer. Who knows.

Jefferson

June 29th, 2011
2:57 pm

“Redistribution” — kid talk for my diaper is wet…

Fletch

June 29th, 2011
2:57 pm

thomas – “Some states do have them pay into it.”

Which states? We run payroll in CA, NM, NV, AZ, GA, WI, KS, TX, AL, and TN. All of which require SUTA and FUTA be paid by the employer.

Thulsa Doom

June 29th, 2011
2:57 pm

Joe Mama

June 29th, 2011
2:48 pm

Doom — “Bash palin/bachman”

Come now, Mr. Doom. There are plenty of conservatives who slam on Palin and Bachmann with gusto.

Joe Mama,

Its become all the rage. Deranged conservative woman syndrome- a disorder closely related to the Bush derangement syndrome.

Uncle Jed

June 29th, 2011
2:58 pm

Amazing what Barry finds amusing:

Obama “Amused” When People Say He Should Be Involved In Debt Talks
President Obama says he is “amused” when people say he needs to get more involved in the debt crisis talks currently being led by Vice President Joe Biden.

“If you know you have to do something, just do it. And I have to say, I am very amused when I start hearing comments about ‘well the President needs to show more leadership on this.’ Let me tell you something: Right after we finished dealing with the government shutdown, averting a government shutdown, I called the leaders here together. I said we have to get this done,” President Obama said at a press conference this afternoon.

Obama told Congress it is up to them and “they need to do their job.”

“Now’s the time to go ahead and make the tough choices, that’s why they’re called leaders,” he said.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2011/06/29/obama_amused_when_people_say_he_should_be_involved_in_debt_talks.html
++++++++++++++++++++++

And this is why he will not be taken seriously, as a leader. Clowns are amused and amusing.

BADA BING

June 29th, 2011
2:59 pm

@@….. yes I am a1/2 /ass reptile expert. No training, just real world experience. Why?

AmVet

June 29th, 2011
3:00 pm

Three words that, if removed form their lexicon, would vastly help the credibility of our con bloggers – bash, punish and evil.

Or at least quit quoting them from the Republican Dictionary of Made Up Definitions…

mmm, mmm, mmm, Barack the Liar Obama - BEND OVER, Here comes the CHANGE!

June 29th, 2011
3:00 pm

About half the population. Just another case of wealth envy by the government.

Mighty Righty

June 29th, 2011
3:00 pm

Jefferson

June 29th, 2011
2:55 pm
Anything that Limbaugh don’t like is good. Anybody who likes Limbaugh, I don’t.

I like Limbaugh. Three years ago, he said that in any room Obama is in, Obama will be the dumbest person in that room. At the time I thought Rush was exagerating. I was wrong.

0311/0317 - 1811/1801

June 29th, 2011
3:01 pm

“Showing his frustration with his former colleagues in Congress, President Obama on Wednesday said if they haven’t shown serious progress on debt negotiations this week, they should cancel their vacations and stay in town.”

Same for you pal ………….. and stay off the golf course.

AmVet

June 29th, 2011
3:02 pm

And how many more years before the fiscally conservative irresponsible understand the effects of three decades of trickle-up poverty?

0311/0317 - 1811/1801

June 29th, 2011
3:02 pm

Jed:

He may be “amused” but he ain’t “amusing”. He’s dangerous.

getalife

June 29th, 2011
3:03 pm

A great day for our President as he goes on the offense.

His health care bill was ruled legal.

Congress needs to get to work.

mmm, mmm, mmm, Barack the Liar Obama - BEND OVER, Here comes the CHANGE!

June 29th, 2011
3:04 pm

If you make over $33,000. you should be paying taxes. A flat tax with NO deductions for ANYONE would solve this problem. And BTW, what’s up with raising the age on Medicare? I paid into it, I should get it when I retired or at 65.

BADA BING

June 29th, 2011
3:04 pm

AJC headline…..’5 Saudi female drivers detained’. Oh, if we could only detain some ATL drivers!!!

0311/0317 - 1811/1801

June 29th, 2011
3:04 pm

Headline: “France Admits to Arming Libyan Rebels”

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYFxGPkPTyw

getalife

June 29th, 2011
3:04 pm

Where is the gop response from their candidates?

Crickets.

Chirp.

@@

June 29th, 2011
3:05 pm

josef:

Was talking to a fellow earlier this morning who was doing some tree removal-trimming.

He wouldn’t be gay, would he?

We’ve got three trees down, and the other gay, Jose(ph) has our chainsaw. He LOVES that manly tool. I may have to buy him one for his next birthday. This year, he got two cases of canning jars.

(IW&SH)

0311/0317 - 1811/1801

June 29th, 2011
3:05 pm

BADA:

Maybe they had their burkas on backwards ?

AmVet

June 29th, 2011
3:05 pm

The Manteats in Black proclaims Barry ain’t as smart as him?

Hysterical…(must have been the drugs.)

mmm, mmm, mmm, Barack the Liar Obama - BEND OVER, Here comes the CHANGE!

June 29th, 2011
3:05 pm

AmVet

Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton were part of that, and Obama is now.

0311/0317 - 1811/1801

June 29th, 2011
3:06 pm

You don’t respond to lunacy.

Jay

June 29th, 2011
3:07 pm

“You don’t respond to lunacy.”

I’ll have to remember that.

Thulsa Doom

June 29th, 2011
3:08 pm

Bada Bing,

I was looking at buying a new washer/dryer set and I went outside and saw 2 husky Hispanic women who have a small business picking up and delivering and taking to salvage washers/dryers. Apparently the neighbor was having them do this when I saw them. I just went up and asked them if they would like to haul mine away and they offered to grab them right then and there for $20. Hard working gals and of course I helped them. Tipped em $5 and gave them some water and sodas to go. Very nice women busting their azzes in 90 degree heat doing a man’s job. Impressive. The bigger one that I helped load the stuff had a mortgage of $1160 a month and told me she works hard to live the American dream. So yeah there are still some hardworking service people out there.

Keep Up the Good Fight!

June 29th, 2011
3:09 pm

Rich
June 29th, 2011
2:39 pm
Keep Up the Good Fight! – Should the federal government be paying to repair state and local bridges?
The one in MN was a design issue, not a maintenance issue

______________

Well let’s see. I think it was part of the federal highway system and the feds contribute a great deal of money back to the state. Why I do believe that some states get back more than they pay in but then again, we’re all one country. But you can argue about those free-loading states, except that when a semi needs to go from Atlanta to California, should all the states in between be required to pay to maintain an interstate systems.

Design or maintenance, I dont care. Critical thinking will tell you that if it needs to be replaced, someone has got to pay for it. And there is a lot of infrastructure around the country that needs to be replaced, improved and created.

@@

June 29th, 2011
3:09 pm

BADA:

Why?

There was a spotted lizard who “hung out” with me in the backyard. Everywhere I went, there he was.

This morning, I found a spotted lizard in the bottom of the pool. Hoping he may still be alive, I got him out with the skimmer. He wasn’t.

Sad.

mmm, mmm, mmm, Barack the Liar Obama - BEND OVER, Here comes the CHANGE!

June 29th, 2011
3:10 pm

getalife

skip the “our” he’s one term and a LIAR in Chief. Remember the first thing I’ll do is end our troops involvment? “You can bank on that” – he must have meant one of the bailed out banks. Tax and Spend! How’s that change working for you. Gas was $1.81 when the LIAR took office and unemployment was 2% lower, and of course the deficit was no where near where it is today. But almost three years later that’s Bush’s fault.

Keep Up the Good Fight!

June 29th, 2011
3:11 pm

Jay
June 29th, 2011
3:07 pm
“You don’t respond to lunacy.”
I’ll have to remember that

___________________________

Jay I hope that was just a passing comment and not a response.

AmVet

June 29th, 2011
3:12 pm

Anally obsessed, if you are referring to trickle-up poverty, you are half correct.

Carter – no.

Reagan – the author of the best selling How to Destroy the Middle Class, Yet Make Them Think They are Winning!

Clinton – of course. He added several chapters.

Bush – Authored Volume 2. Doubling Down on Casino Capitalism.

Barry – George Jr.with a twist…

Bob

June 29th, 2011
3:13 pm

“Why are we giving this money to them and in some cases would those amounts exceed what is being paid in payroll tax?”

Because there is more to Federal Taxation than Income Taxes. 6.8% Social Security tax is paid by the employer. The Income taxes refunds do not count Social Security in the calculation.

I’m hearing the phrase “have some skin in the game” and I suspect it is being used as a code for “we need to stop paying refunds to the working poor”.

Jay is right. Forget the other “tax units” that are way above middle class that pay no income tax you people want the working poor to “have some skin in the game”.

josef

June 29th, 2011
3:13 pm

@@

Don’t think the bossman was, but one of his anchor babies crew sure ought to be!

Rich

June 29th, 2011
3:13 pm

Keep Up the Good Fight! I agree that the federal govenment should foot the bill for federal highways, but not state or local. MN was a state road, inspected and viewed as safe by the state.

getalife

June 29th, 2011
3:14 pm

Bend over,

Lets talk about the big pile of stinking crap your hero w gave him.

You know, the global economic collapse and two ongoing wars he ended.

Thulsa Doom

June 29th, 2011
3:15 pm

mmm, mmm, mmm, Barack the Liar Obama – BEND OVER, Here comes the CHANGE!

June 29th, 2011
3:04 pm

And BTW, what’s up with raising the age on Medicare? I paid into it, I should get it when I retired or at 65.

mmm,

Interestingly no one seems to ever want to talk about the inherent unfairness of this. I can tell you right now that people aging into the system are now paying $115 on their part b premium. If you aged in just a few years ago you pay $96 a month. And now they’re talking about raising the age from 65 to 67? That’s boolsheet considering that the cost for private health insurance for an individual during those years is going to cost $700-$1000 a month. The fair thing to do would be to keep the age at 65 and slightly reduce benefits to everyone on Medicare. But who ever said govt programs were fair? That’s your Medicare for you.

0311/0317 - 1811/1801

June 29th, 2011
3:15 pm

JAY:

Wow !

You haven’t responded to me for weeks and weeks !

I know I made you angry awhile back for really NAILING you on something (honestly I can’t remember what).

But …………… I’m happy to see you got some counseling and you’re ready to take me on again …………………………. :o

I look forward to it.

mmm, mmm, mmm, Barack the Liar Obama - BEND OVER, Here comes the CHANGE!

June 29th, 2011
3:15 pm

Rich

Typical liberal. The government doesn’t have any money. It’s the TAX PAYERS that pay.

So?

June 29th, 2011
3:16 pm

“I said 90% of Republicans are white. NOT 90% of whites are Republican, td.”

And 99.99999% of blacks are Democrats, as are 67% of hispanics. What’s the point?

0311/0317 - 1811/1801

June 29th, 2011
3:17 pm

Jay:

BTW check this out !

THE WAY THIS COUNTRY IS HEADED, WHY AM I NOT SURPRISED ?

Headline: “Houston Veterans Claim Censorship of Prayers, Including Ban on ‘God’ and ‘Jesus’”

“Veterans in Houston say the Department of Veterans Affairs is consistently censoring their prayers by banning them from saying the words “God” and “Jesus” during funeral services at Houston National Cemetery.

Three organizations — the Veterans of Foreign Wars, The American Legion and the National Memorial Ladies — allege that the cemetery’s director and other government officials have created “religious hostility” at the cemetery and are violating the First Amendment. According to court documents filed this week in federal court, the cemetery’s director, Arleen Ocasio, has banned saying “God” at funerals and requires prayers be submitted in advance for government approval, MyFoxHouston.com reports.”

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/06/29/houston-veterans-claim-censorship-prayers-ban-on-god-and-jesus/#ixzz1Qguykt46

mmm, mmm, mmm, Barack the Liar Obama - BEND OVER, Here comes the CHANGE!

June 29th, 2011
3:19 pm

getalife

First, “W” was disapointment, too much bi-partisanship. How long did it take for him to veto a spending bill? Second, NO war has ended. We still have tropps dying in booth countries. Of course, the LIBERAL media trys to bury that story.

josef

June 29th, 2011
3:19 pm

JAY

“You don’t respond to lunacy.

I’ll have to remember that.”

********
I guess we won’t be seeing much of you around here, then, will we? :-)

Message from Matti

June 29th, 2011
3:19 pm

I wish you tax whiners would just OWN UP to being the deadbeats you are. “Oooo, I work haaaaaaaarrrrd! I don’t want to share my money with inferior beings…. Waaaaaahhhhh!” Deadbeats. You want to spend all your money on YOU, and let somebody else pay for the roads and bridges you drive on, the soldiers who fight for your right to whine, the cops who come to your house when you’ve been victimized, the hospitals that treat even poor people so you don’t have to step over their stinky carcasses on the sidewalk on your way to get your McLard blob breakfast sandwich, the people who test water, food, and drugs so you don’t have to risk the “free market” safety test whereby others watch you die and decide to spend money elsewhere, run the elections you vote in, and the public schools that (in theory) keep your neighbors’ kids occupied with constructing their own futures instead of digging through your underwear drawer for your stash while you’re at work.

You have benefitted all your life from opportunities afforded you in this here “greatest country in the world,” and yet your stingy, leeching, deadbeat, whining mouth can’t stop yammering about how put upon you are to be required to contribute to the general welfare from which you have taken advantage all your years. And you fly Old Glory on your front porch like it means something to you…. Hypocrites!

–end rant–

Good Point!

June 29th, 2011
3:19 pm

“. I can’t EVER remember the AJC endorsing a Republican candidate.”

Perhaps that’s why they are a 2nd place newspaper in a 1 newspaper town!

AmVet

June 29th, 2011
3:20 pm

“And 99.99999% of blacks are Democrats.”

Sorry, this is a no lie zone.

Thulsa Doom

June 29th, 2011
3:20 pm

0311/0317 – 1811/1801

June 29th, 2011
3:17 pm

Political correctness runnin loose and crazy. Surely the ACLU is lurking somewhere looking to sue God or anything religious.

Mighty Righty

June 29th, 2011
3:21 pm

The Bamster is not a leader. He never has been and he never will be. Today at the press conference he voted present. Surprise, Surprise.

Keep Up the Good Fight!

June 29th, 2011
3:21 pm

Rich, don’t really think your point matters to the infrastructure comment but if you want to persue to prove that a bridge that was part of the Interstate Highway System (I-35W) was somehow not part of the Interstate Highway System….then lets see the proof of it being a “state road” and tell me exactly how this relates to a comment that infrastructure in this country does not need to be replaced.

Rich

June 29th, 2011
3:23 pm

mmm, mmm, mmm, Barack the Liar Obama – BEND OVER, Here comes the CHANGE! – You are correct on the fact that it is the people’s money. Maybe I should have said it is the Federal Government’s responsibility to maintain the federal roads.

Brosephus

June 29th, 2011
3:23 pm

LCommon Sense

June 29th, 2011
2:53 pm
“Second, while the percentage of revenue raised through the personal income tax has remained relatively stable since World War II”

So as more and more left the income tax rolls, the burden rose on the rest.

Amazing how many in this nation want something for nothing.

I think that by “stable”, Jay was referring to the percentage and not the actual amount. A steady percentage would have no bearing on who’s paying and who’s not. That would just mean that whatever amount of revenue was taken in, income tax represented around the same amount.

Scott

June 29th, 2011
3:28 pm

Getalife “Where is the gop response from their candidates?

Crickets.

Chirp.”

Where is the Democrats’ budget proposal. We haven’t seen one from them in over 2 years. Where is Obama’s actual plan? He talks a talk(not even going to say it is a good one), but that is about it. All he pretty much did was tell us all what his reelection campaign is about. He is going to blame everything on reps for sabotaging everything even though the Dems could have done pretty much anything they wanted to for two whole years. Two whole years of Democrat policies have nearly destroyed the country. He is going to roll out sob stories of people that are going to allegedly be hurt by Rep policies, even if they are lies, and then he is going to just blame Bush, blame Bush, blame Bush. The racist in chief should not be trusted.

Midori

June 29th, 2011
3:29 pm

0311/0317 – 1811/1801 — that 2:52 was the most insipid, juvenile, nonsensical claptrap I’ve yet to read on this blog.

And I thought I read it all.

seriously – that was monumentally silly.

AmVet

June 29th, 2011
3:30 pm

Again, this is a no lie zone. The “Bamster” is the leader of the free world.

“The racist in chief”?

LOLOLOLOL!

The con desperation and wackiness is reaching unforeseen heights!

stands for decibels

June 29th, 2011
3:30 pm

Brosephus, off topic, but something I’ve been meaning to ask you (and I do this because you’ve oftimes written eloquently on the need for real campaign finance reform, wherein campaigns were publicly financed):

just how horrific do you find the SCOTUS decision this week that ruled as unconstitutional an AZ state law that attempted to level the playing field?

Medium horrific, gouge-my-eyes-out-I-can’t-watch horrific, somewhere in between…?

Sick of it

June 29th, 2011
3:30 pm

I am sick of people saying the working class!!! What is the working class? I make a great pay and I work my butt off for it. I am away from my family for 6 months a year to do it. So take your working class stuff and pay some taxes. If you get a paid for work you are working class.

Rich

June 29th, 2011
3:32 pm

What is really the problem? Does the federal goveremnt have a revenue problem or a spending problem. If you look at revenue and spending over the last 15 years, you will see that the real problem is on the spending side. Revenues are lower than the peak, but spending continues to grow. Spending is caused by congress not by the President (I know he signs the budget bill), except last year where there was no budget. It does not matter what the revenue was, congress spent more. Under democratic congresses the deficit spending in greater than rebublicans. but they all spend too much. This link shows revenue and spending over the years. http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxfacts/displayafact.cfm?Docid=200

josef

June 29th, 2011
3:32 pm

IMAM
La Guerra de la Agresión del Norte/El Malentendido Reciente!!
Ya podemos tener las sábanas limpias?

I swear ever since HB87, good help is so hard to find… :-)

AmVet

June 29th, 2011
3:33 pm

Dammit, Midori! You made me look! (And I hope you and yours are well!)

I’ve gotten to the point where I simply can’t stomach a lot of certain posters’ “contributions.”

And quoting that oafish, free-loading radio lardass?

Truly nauseating…

josef

June 29th, 2011
3:34 pm

Sick of It

Yep!

Thomas

June 29th, 2011
3:35 pm

And quoting that oafish, free-loading radio lardass?

said the pot to the kettle

the far left and the far right all sound the same

Mighty Righty

June 29th, 2011
3:36 pm

What is so difficult about understanding this?

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Tell me where it says anyone who wishes to pray on government property cannot do so?

0311/0317 - 1811/1801

June 29th, 2011
3:36 pm

Midori:

Of course “you” would ………… but look, there goes a “looney puppy” !

Brosephus

June 29th, 2011
3:36 pm

dB

How about “2mph CSX freight train running over a cuddly rabbit while dragging Bambi’s mom and I can’t do a thing except watch” horrific!! The SCOTUS has basically sold our elections to the highest bidder. I can’t remember who brought up the chart that rated corruption and showed the US as #22 out of 170-something, but we don’t have free elections anymore. Offices are bought by deep-pocketed interests, whether it’s a single person or group. If you can’t raise abnormally substantial cash, you have no chance of holding office. I seriously doubt that is what the Founding Fathers had in mind when they were setting up this country.

0311/0317 - 1811/1801

June 29th, 2011
3:37 pm

P.S.

Notice Jay went away again.

Fred

June 29th, 2011
3:40 pm

Wow Matti: Don’t hold back. Tell us how you REALLY feel………

Scott

June 29th, 2011
3:40 pm

No Matti…we are just sick and tired of paying more and more while leaches such as yourself get a free ride. We are sick and tired of watching the government steal money from us and waste it on stupid things, making the country worse. Maybe if you would wake up one of these days and realize that bigger government and more spending is not the answer and that you need to take accountability for your situation rather than sucking off the government’s teat, perhaps we would be more willing to see our taxes go up.
You got is half-wrong when you say that we do not want to pay for toads, hospitals, and other things. We don’t mind paying for them. We do mind paying for them over and over and over again because incompetent politicians cannot manage a budget, or in the Dem’s case, even create a budget. How many more times would you like to pay for the same infrastructure? Obama got his stimulus for these shovel ready jobs and squandered it….$787 Billion to be exact. And now guess what. In addition to money allocated to infrastructure on an annual omnibus bill(something Democrats have no clue about because they have not proposed one in over two years), he wants even more! What happened the $787 Billion? What happened to the money we give you every year?

I take it that you probably have as much experience in business that Obama has, don’t you? If a CEO ran a business like Obama is running this country, he would have been removed after a month. All this spending without asking questions about why we have to spend money on the same things again and again? Really?

stands for decibels

June 29th, 2011
3:41 pm

How about “2mph CSX freight train running over a cuddly rabbit while dragging Bambi’s mom and I can’t do a thing except watch” horrific!

ok then. it wasn’t just me.

Fred

June 29th, 2011
3:42 pm

Thomas

June 29th, 2011
3:35 pm

the far left and the far right all sound the same.
=======================

Can I have an amen? I’ve been saying that for years and say it all the time on this blog. The only difference is WHO is being called a liar, deadbeat, cheater ect………..

Keep Up the Good Fight!

June 29th, 2011
3:42 pm

I forget which official it was but recently saw a report where one “business owner” recently ran for office. Spent $9 million from his own pocket but right before he took office, his corporation awarded and paid him $10 million in “deferred compensation”. So now it sure looks like a corporation owns that “seat”.

Curious Observer

June 29th, 2011
3:43 pm

But I think that in his first election when he won the presidency his own state voted against him- not sure but I think that’s what happened. I’m pretty sure Georgia voted against him at least once and maybe both times that he ran. If indeed they voted against him the first time then that would be pretty amazing.

Wrong. I was one of those college professors whose pay raise he cancelled illegally after I’d signed the contract for the next year (the courts eventually overruled him.) Those good ‘ol boys were standing in line at the polls to vote for him when he ran for president. They were sure they’d get a good ‘ol Georgia boy in the White House to fight the integrationists. I was in that line to see and hear them. He won Georgia big.

Fred

June 29th, 2011
3:44 pm

I wonder how much my friendly neighborhood scalper is asking for a pair of Taylor Swift tickets?

Brosephus

June 29th, 2011
3:45 pm

How many more times would you like to pay for the same infrastructure?

I’m guessing somebody doesn’t understand that infrastructure has to be replaced as there has indestructable infrastructure has not been invented yet. Or, when you try to make it last forever, you end up with an ancient water system made of terra cotta pipes trying to distribute water to 500,000 people and businesses, when it was designed and built in a time when there was probably a maximum of 50,000 people.

williebkind

June 29th, 2011
3:45 pm

Have you noticed the choices from the conservative presidential candidates, wow, some great picks. But then you look on the progressive democrat side and you got………..darkness!

stands for decibels

June 29th, 2011
3:46 pm

What happened the $787 Billion?

golly, if there were only a website where you could go to find out such things.

josef

June 29th, 2011
3:46 pm

Scott

“do not want to pay for toads”

Frogs, yes! Toads should go back with Helen Thomas to where they came from… (okay, I know it’s a typo! But I couldn’t resist!)

Matti is not a leach…not even a leech…she works hard for a living in a prestige zip code! (not a typo..)

do not want to pay for toads

Rich

June 29th, 2011
3:46 pm

We need to federal government to handle what is should handle according to the constitution, not what every special interest group wants or what some people feels is the right thing to do. Solutions to any problem should start with the people, then local government, on to the state and then to the federal government. So often the federal govenment is expected to be first, it should be last to try and solve a problem.

Mighty Righty

June 29th, 2011
3:46 pm

Scott

June 29th, 2011
3:28 pm
Well said. The loonney left will hate this but the next election will be based on the facts not a bumper sticker slogan. Obama will be judged on his Actions not Words. Obama will be judged on his Results not Speeches. The economic statistics do not lie now and will not lie next year. The majority of the American people will not be fooled again.

Thulsa Doom

June 29th, 2011
3:47 pm

“We do not have a chance. This country does not have a chance with Barack Obama remaining in the Oval Office.”

Scout,

I would say that’s a pretty accurate statement as much as it pains some people to hear it.

Keep Up the Good Fight!

June 29th, 2011
3:47 pm

Scott, do tell us…would Bush have lasted a week as CEO?

By the way, if you know how to use “the Google” you can find out how the stimulus money was spend. Now where do we find out where the cash that Bush sent to Iraq in planeloads was spend…or that is right, the GAO says it can’t be tracked.

Tell me again a nighty nighty fairy tale about them bad old Dems and them good Republicans. And Scott, can you include more about the sexual harassment.

Brosephus

June 29th, 2011
3:47 pm

dB

Nah, it wasn’t just you. I can’t really describe my mental state in words after I read that story. I don’t even think our buddy RP would have been able to put it to words, and he’s got a damn good way with wordsmithery.

stands for decibels

June 29th, 2011
3:49 pm

Spent $9 million from his own pocket but right before he took office, his corporation awarded and paid him $10 million in “deferred compensation”

that’d be this guy.

Message from Matti

June 29th, 2011
3:49 pm

Scott,

I don’t know who you think you’re addressing, but I pay my *bleep bleep* taxes, and I don’t *bleeping* whine about that. Now, if by “leeches” you mean corporations like Exxon, Georgia Power, and Bank of America, who suck more and more from us every year, see soaring profits, and pay less in taxes than WE do, then you might have a point. If you mean to whine that your tax money is not spent as efficiently or effectively as you think it should be (I agree), then why don’t you get involved (starting with your local jurisdictions) and a helpful little watchdog/advocate for responsible government? Then your whining might have a purpose! Calling me a leech? I never asked you or anybody else for anything, CREEP. I am happy to be fortunate enough not to NEED help. Furthermore, I take my duty as a citizen seriously and write to my elected officials ALL THE TIME to try to hold them accountable. But… because the money worshippers have stacked the system and the supreme court, they don’t care what I think. What are YOU doing to try to make it better? I can just guess.

Thulsa Doom

June 29th, 2011
3:50 pm

And quoting that oafish, free-loading radio lardass?- AmVet

AmVet,

Limbaugh may be fat and oafish but a freeloader he is not. He probably pays more in taxes in 1 year than you made in a lifetime.

Fred

June 29th, 2011
3:51 pm

Why does the far right worship drug addicts?

Poor, Poor, Pitiful Thee

June 29th, 2011
3:51 pm

I’m trying to figure out this censor thing in public of the word God. Are there people walking around with those things that go “beeeeep” just waiting for someone to slip up.

Scott

June 29th, 2011
3:52 pm

Brosephus…that is what the annual omnibus bill is for. That is also what tolls are for. I used to live in New York. They created this great highway called the Thruway. It was designed to be a toll road to pay for the project and the tolls were supposed to end when the project was paid off. They have collected enough tolls to pay for this project many many times. Now, they say they need the toll money to pay for repairs to it. Guess who also says they need to collect money to pay to repair the Thruway? The taxman. Again, when will you say “Enough is enough. I have had it with the government wasting my money.” I guess this doesn’t bother you but to people who actually see the waste, fraud, and abuse, it is a constant reminder of the wrong direction this country is heading. Rather than saying “gee I wish the countries tax burden will only go up X% this year” we should be saying “Hey scumbag politicians. We voted you in to manage our government. When are you going to plan so that the overall tax burden is decreased by X%?” I know this is a difficult concept for you. hell, you probably have every credit card maxed out because you think it is free money and you are happy that somebody else will bail you out.

stands for decibels

June 29th, 2011
3:53 pm

I can’t really describe my mental state in words after I read that story.

again, so it wasn’t just me…

and yeah, funny that RP hasn’t weighed in on this. Maybe he didn’t want to harsh the buzz he had over NY State’s marriage equality.

anyhoo, later, gators. might BBL…

Fred

June 29th, 2011
3:54 pm

Wow Matti. You are on a ROLL today. Would you be willing to help me with a letter to a guy who seems to think I should not only have fixed his house for free but that I should also buy some of the material?

My version is getting too bogged down with invectives……….

Keep Up the Good Fight!

June 29th, 2011
3:54 pm

stands….yeah that’s the guy. I am sure we’ll hear the outrage from the right in 5…4….

Message from Matti

June 29th, 2011
4:03 pm

Fred,

I’m feeling ya! My father and some close friends are in the building industry, and they’ve all had to eat not only profits, but costs, because somebody else didn’t plan. Funny, you don’t hear THOSE stories on the six o’clock news — only the ones about the dummies who pay a complete stranger up front for a new roof, credentials unseen. Our society is definitely devolving, that’s for sure.

Brosephus

June 29th, 2011
4:04 pm

Scott

Tolls are a gimmick, and I just avoid roads that require them when I travel. If you think road repair is a waste of taxpayer money, then I really feel bad for you.

First of all, road repair work is usually contracted out to private sector groups. I think people refer to that as jobs, or something like that. Those people who actually perform the work for the company gets paid wages. They, then take those wages and spend them on things like shelter, food, booze, strippers, or anything else that requires money. So, the money “confiscated” by the government is returned to the private sector by that same government where it cycles through more private sector companies.

Next, by keeping roads repaired and in good working order, you cut down on repairs for trucks. You do realize that 18-wheelers are responsible for moving upwards near 90% of the things that we Americans tend to rely on and need on a daily basis, right? Less repairs on trucks generally lead to less cost in shipping. Somewhere down the road, after everyone has taken their share of the reduced costs, the public gets a reduction in the cost of purchased goods.

Finally, well maintained roads can lead to more commerce as people are able to move more goods efficiently and with lowered costs. The efficiency can come into play as demand goes up and not cost producers an arm and a leg to meet that demand. I think one of the ultimate goals in logistics is efficency, and well maintained roads and bridges help increase the efficiency of the logistics loop here in the US.

Scott

June 29th, 2011
4:07 pm

Keep up and stands. Wow. you are giving me a website for the recovery. First off….how is that recovery summer doing? 2nd, I don’t know why we would ever trust the crap posted on this. Wasn’t this the same site that listed jobs saved/created for districts that didn’t even exist? It definitely seems like a credible source, especially when it is data compiled by the oh-so transparent and believable Obama administration. The fact that you believe what they tell you already shows that you guys are clueless from the start. Anyways…I will play your game. I am so glad that we spent $787 Billion to create/save 560,992 jobs. Gee, that’s like $1.4 Million per job isn’t it!!!! Excellent use of funds there. And you want to give Obama more!!!!

BADA BING

June 29th, 2011
4:08 pm

@@ if you are still here…..a spotted lizard, that is interesting, probably not a native lizard, spots is unusual here. Maybe an escaped pet. Mostly solid or striped in GA. Have to see it to be sure.

Midori

June 29th, 2011
4:10 pm

Fred

June 29th, 2011
4:10 pm

Bada Bing the lizard king…………….

it sings lol

Brosephus

June 29th, 2011
4:11 pm

Mighty Righty

June 29th, 2011
4:12 pm

Hindsight is 20/20 but below are two amazingly accurate insights that were written at the time. It is now obvious they were both correct and someone should have been paying attention. We could have saved ourselves a lot of trouble.
Rasmussen Poll says:

January 23, 2009
Fifty-nine percent (59%) of U.S. voters worry that Congress and President Obama will increase government spending too much in the next year or two, according to a new Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey.

Only 17% have the opposite concern and are more worried that Congress and the president will cut taxes too much.

Even David Brooks of the NYT says that this is too much for him:

There’s also a very strong case to be made for long-term government reform. America could fundamentally rethink its infrastructure policies – create a new model adapted to new modes of community-building. It could fundamentally rethink human capital policies – create a lifelong menu of learning options, from pre-K programs to service opportunities for the elderly.

But the stimulus bill emerging in the House of Representatives does neither of these things. The bill marked up Wednesday in the Appropriations Committee is a muddled mixture of short-term stimulus haste and long-term spending commitments. It is an unholy marriage that manages to combine the worst of each approach – rushed short-term planning with expensive long-term fiscal impact.

The bill has three essential failings. First, it lacks any strategic vision. This $825 billion bill has to be passed within weeks. There’s no time for fundamental rethinking or new approaches. Instead, there’s a sloppy profusion of 152 different appropriations – off-the-shelf ideas that mostly create costlier versions of the status quo.

What is amazing to me is the number of people wo post here that still would be part of the 17% in the Rasmussen poll and also think the stimulous was a success.

Keep Up the Good Fight!

June 29th, 2011
4:15 pm

Scott, you may want to work on your math skills. Do tell me, for example, if a $50 million dollar bridge that costs $45 million in materials and $5 million in labor (we’ll assume for thjs exercise is your silliness that there was no profit) and results in 1000 jobs, costs $5,000 per job or $50,000 per job.

Scott

June 29th, 2011
4:16 pm

Brosephus. I guess I have to write it again because you are either just not reading it or are too incompetent to understand. Road repairs are needed….never said they weren’t. That is why they have an Omnibus Bill every year(well, we used to until the Democrats decided that it was not politically advantageous for them to present one.) Now, Obama had money in his Stimulus that he said he was going to use for infrastructure(You remember that whole shovel ready job thing right?…yeah that thing he laughs about now) He used that money poorly and now he wants MORE money for infrastructure and apparently, based off of his comments of needing it so badly, he doesn’t care to understand what happened to the original money he wasted on it so badly. he also does not care to understand what happened to the money dedicated to infrastructure on an annual basis. He just wants the money. Do you honestly think that extra money will be used for infrastructure? I don’t and given his track record of wasteful spending and not doing what he says he will do (reviewing every bill line by line and removing pork anybody???), I think I am right in my assessment. The guy had his chance. He wanted to waste money on infrastructure, his plan failed in the past(look up Japan’s Lost decade and you might get a clue), he needs to go away. But hey….we created 562,000 jobs at the cost of $1.4 Million/job. Great job.

Scott

June 29th, 2011
4:21 pm

keep up. I am using the numbers provided by YOUR website. The site tells us that $787 Billion resulted in 560,992 jobs. 787,000,000,000,000 divided by 560,992 equals WHAT? Enough said.

Keep Up the Good Fight!

June 29th, 2011
4:24 pm

Sure Scott…and materials were free. It was the Great Stim Sale.

Enough said.

Fred

June 29th, 2011
4:25 pm

LOL Midori. Thanks. I hadn’t made it to Rodney’s blog. That was hilarious. I might have to actually sit down and WATCH John Stewart.

Side note: I love Rodney’s blog. I don’t care one bit about 99.9% of what he blogs about and that’s what intrigues me about him and his blog. He does such a good job that I spend time reading about things I will NEVER watch…………. and enjoying the reading ……

Brosephus

June 29th, 2011
4:26 pm

Scott

I’m following you, but my question for you would be this….

If it’s in the Ominbus Bill and things are taken care of, why are roads still fu*ked up? Why are bridges almost unsafe to drive across? Why are water lines crumbling like a Nitrogen freeze-dried Gumby?

If you’re gonna imply that the stimulus failed, then it’s not just Obama’s policies that have failed. The GOP’s mantra of tax cuts have also failed. The stimulus was 1/3 tax cuts too. Neither party has done what is necessary for us to turn our country around. Somebody has to be the grown up and tell all the whiners to shut the f**k up and EVERYBODY has to help pay our way out of this crap. I wasn’t a big fan of the stimulus, and I’m not a big fan of this whole massive spending cut crap either. It’s more of the same failed sh*t that has us humped over the barrel with China lubing us up from behind. The sooner the jackasses in DC quit listening to the monied class, the better off we’ll all be.

Midori

June 29th, 2011
4:27 pm

I came upon it by accident, Fred :)

getalife

June 29th, 2011
4:28 pm

Thanks Midori :)

Cain never called me :(

Fred

June 29th, 2011
4:29 pm

Brosephus: Bada Bing, (the Lizard King) is the only poster with his own theme song and video lol.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ln8-Y-fIbqM

Thulsa Doom

June 29th, 2011
4:30 pm

keep up,

Tell ya what. Since the stimulus or porkulus as it should be called was so freaking great why don’t we just keep doing stimulus over and over and over. Maybe then it will eventually work since it obviously didn’t work the first time. You know the definition of insanity- doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

Uncle Jed

June 29th, 2011
4:32 pm

0311/0317 – 1811/1801

June 29th, 2011
3:02 pm
Jed:

He may be “amused” but he ain’t “amusing”. He’s dangerous.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I stand corrected.

Vast Right Wing Conspiracy

June 29th, 2011
4:33 pm

Jay, to quote the great Ronald Reagan, “There you go again”.

Folks have a variety of ways to decrease or eliminate their tax bill, mainly through the use of “tax credits”, which are issued by the government for a number of reasons, but mainly concern incentives to create low-income housing. These are not without risk, which is why they typically trade at a discount to par.

As for the other end of the spectrum, you fail to mention that not only do these folks do not pay taxes, but many also receive a check from the government through the “Earned Income Tax Credit” (only the government could come up with a name like that).

Perhaps we can strike a deal – if you pay no taxes, you can not vote. This would eliminate vast hordes of Democrats on both ends of the spectrum. Y’all would really have to get amnesty for illegal aliens at that point.

Brosephus

June 29th, 2011
4:36 pm

Keep Up the Good Fight!

June 29th, 2011
4:37 pm

Maybe then it will eventually work since it obviously didn’t work the first time

Doom…do prove that the stim did not work with actual links and evidence. That was a insane claim the first time you made it but I am sure you’ll be repeating it no matter how untrue.

Fred

June 29th, 2011
4:41 pm

Keep. How DID the stimulus package work? I can’t say I noticed any upswing in the economy……….. What exactly WAS created by it?

Brosephus

June 29th, 2011
4:43 pm

Perhaps we can strike a deal – if you pay no taxes, you can not vote.

I love it when so-called conservatives trample all over their blessed document that’s called the Constitution of the United States. You know the 24th Amendment did away with poll taxes in relation to federal elections, and the SCOTUS extended that to lower level elections based on the Equal Protection Clause of the 14th. In your example above, taxes would clearly be considered a poll tax.

Thulsa Doom

June 29th, 2011
4:47 pm

keep up,

Do prove that it did work. 2 1/2 years later we are still at 9.1% unemployment rate and last month a paltry 54,000 jobs were created with half of them created by one company- McDonalds. Now if you consider burger flipper jobs then we would indeed have to consider Obama and the stimulus a rousing success. Otherwise it was an abject failure which only added nearly a trillion in new debt and which now garners Obama the title of the big mac president. Mr. McObama if you will. All hail mr. McObama.

jms

June 29th, 2011
4:49 pm

“The Clinton team knows how to balance the budget and the tax revenue stream to help balance the budget.” -getalife

Sure they do. Step 1: Start with an unprecedented asset bubble…

getalife

June 29th, 2011
4:51 pm

“Sure they do. Step 1: Start with an unprecedented asset bubble…”

Ah, the good old days.

Keep Up the Good Fight!

June 29th, 2011
4:52 pm

Doom…sorry you claim it did not work but you have no facts or links to prove it. One sorry post for you. Typical, post a claim you cannot back and then demand others prove you wrong.

Private Analysts Estimate That Stimulus Increased GDP By 2.1 To 3.5 Percent. In its fifth quarterly report on the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 (ARRA), the president’s Council of Economic Advisers (CEA) estimated that the stimulus “has raised the level of GDP as of the third quarter of 2010, relative to what it otherwise would have been, by 2.7 percent.” CEA also provided a chart showing that private analysts estimate that the stimulus boosted GDP between 2.1 and 3.5 percent.

Keep Up the Good Fight!

June 29th, 2011
4:53 pm

WSJ: Economists Say Economic Recovery Has Been Driven By Stimulus. The Wall Street Journal reported on January 14:

Economists surveyed by The Wall Street Journal are increasingly optimistic about the pace of the recovery, predicting the U.S. will grow at better than a 3.2% annual rate in each quarter this year.

“The U.S. economy appears to have successfully navigated the adjustment from a recovery driven primarily from economic stimulus and inventory rebuilding to one driven by private domestic demand and rising exports,” said economists at Wells Fargo & Co. “Three percent growth looks pretty good, particularly with housing stuck in low gear.” [The Wall Street Journal, 1/14/11]

Fred

June 29th, 2011
4:55 pm

Where is that from Keep? I really SHOUL:D google it lol but I’m just too lazy right now.

Hmmmmmmmm

June 29th, 2011
4:55 pm

I guess everbody but, Keep up the good fight, realizes that the stimulus was and is a COMPLETE failure! Good grief, and we wonder why this country is bankrupt…

Hmmmmmmmm

June 29th, 2011
4:57 pm

Oh I get it,,, economists from Wells Fargo… Yikes, their paycheck came from the 400b in government loans…. I guess we can believe Wells Fargo…. and the hits keep rolling….

Joe Mama

June 29th, 2011
4:57 pm

Hmm — “I guess everbody but, Keep up the good fight, realizes that the stimulus was and is a COMPLETE failure!”

Well, Keep and the Wall Street Journal, at any rate. But what would the staff of the WSJ know about business or economics anyway? (laughing) :D

Soothsayer

June 29th, 2011
4:58 pm

Keep Up the Good Fight!

June 29th, 2011
5:01 pm

Paul…easiest way to find the links to the WSJ report and the CEA report is on the following page: http://politicalcorrection.org/factcheck/201106200002

They are not the only websites or confirmations.

oldguy

June 29th, 2011
5:02 pm

AH,
Have been out all day trying to steal from the poor so I missed Jay’s latest rant.
Ho Hum nothing new. Random charts that look pretty but have no relevance to the real question. As usual Jay frames the question to fit his answer which is higher taxes!
He starts with the false assumption that we need to raise taxes rather than cut spending!! Nice try Jay!! Soros will be pleased! (he, of course has his money safely overseas!)
Initially, in many societies (including where our law system originated) only landowners could vote. How about only taxPAYERS can vote!! A great solution!! Let the perple who pay the bill decide how it is spent!! What a novel idea!!
As one of our countries founders (I don’t remember which, I think Alexander Hamilton) stated “the Republic is finished when the poor discover they can vote themselves money from the rich!” (aprox quote, maybe not word for word but the meaning is there).

Thulsa Doom

June 29th, 2011
5:02 pm

Keep,

If you throw nearly a trillion dollars into the economy of course its going to boost economic output in the very short term. Perhaps you didn’t understand that I’m a long term thinker. While we got a very short term boost it simply didn’t sustain and hence 2 1/2 years later we still have an anemic economy and are likely headed to a double dip recession. I’m talking about hear and now. Where are we at here and now over 2 years after the stimulus. When you look at it in that light the stimulus was nothing more than a massive waste of money. Your last post noted economic growth in the 3.5 % range. Unfortunately that was in January and the latest economic forecasts are far more modest. Or did you not know that? Once again explain to me how the stimulus was a success given the state of where we are here and now on June 29th with only 54,000 jobs created just last month.

Fred

June 29th, 2011
5:05 pm

Hmmmmmmmm

June 29th, 2011
4:55 pm

I guess everbody but, Keep up the good fight, realizes that the stimulus was and is a COMPLETE failure!
+++++++++++++++++++++++

I don’t think you can say that Hmmmmmmm. I haven’t made up my mind yet. I’m just now looking at the info.

I know it’s a lot better thing than what the republicans did by handing out a trillion dollars to banks………

TruthBe

June 29th, 2011
5:09 pm

Granny you don’t have a clue. The democrat party and your man obama are the ones trying to tax the average middle class citizen. You and the rest of the liberal racist idiots won’t read the true facts because of you black chip on your shoulder. Obama is a total LIAR. Obama and the democrat party will tax the hell out of you Granny. But you and your chip will follow him off the cliff. The only reason besides being paid by the obama DNC to blogg for Obama is because you don’t want our first black president to go down in history as a failure. That he is. In fact his administration will go down in American History as the most corrupt in modern times. Worst than your boy Jimmy.

TruthBe

June 29th, 2011
5:13 pm

Fred, Clinton, Obama and Bush paid out to the banks. In fact it was Clintons administration thru Senator Dobbd and Senator Frank who wrote and pushed thru the actual bill into law. ( All Democrats ) That created this mess in the first place. They passed it thru so people like Granny could get a loan for a house she might not be able to afford our pay for. So get the facts jack.

Joe Mama

June 29th, 2011
5:14 pm

I think that TruthBe should have his very own TV show. I would make popcorn and watch it every week.

It would be just as funny as “All In The Family” and probably for the very same reasons. :D

oldguy

June 29th, 2011
5:16 pm

Did I miss something Fred?
I thought it was the Democrat controlled house and Senate who voted the money to bail out the banks and Wallstreet?? I didn’t realize that GWB was absolute ruler!!

Fred

June 29th, 2011
5:16 pm

Thulsa: If the “fact check’ site Keep gave is accurate, it would seem the Stimulus act DID work. Heck if nothing else it cut almost 1/2 a million Gov’t jobs. I see alone as a good thing lol.

Yeah last month was pretty lean, but it shows something like 2 million private sector jobs through out the duration. You also aren’t taking into account the jobs that were saved. I have yet to look at the projects, but as was pointed out earlier in the thread materials were used in whatever it was they built. The folks who provided those materials if they didn’t “create” any new jobs at the least were able to retain some or ALL of their workforce that they would have otherwise had to dump.

I still haven’t researched it enough to say victory or bust, but I doubt it is nearly as much a “failure” as you claim it to be or as much a success as Keep does. My early impressions are that we are better off with it than we would have been without it.

Keep Up the Good Fight!

June 29th, 2011
5:18 pm

Sorry Doom…time to back your claims with links and facts and not your red herrings. Your moving the goal posts. You claimed the stim did not work but now you admit it did and move the goal posts to arguing that it was not enough, its not fast enough, it was the wrong mix or that other events have not intervene (such as the efforts of one party to block any recovery for their own gain). Since I have already disproven your claim that it did not work the first time, and you admit that, I am sure you have some new goal posts to back your claim that additional well place stim would not speed up the long term results. You can post links for those too.

WOODSTOCK MIKE

June 29th, 2011
5:18 pm

Just take a glimpse at how corrupt the government is in Chicago. Wait, isn’t that where Obama if from? And isn’t that where is ex chief of staff is governor?

oldguy

June 29th, 2011
5:18 pm

As I stated yesterday…..I can’t be racist because I only hate Obama’s white half!!

Fred

June 29th, 2011
5:23 pm

Gee Oldguy, President Bush didn’t have a veto pen?

oldguy

June 29th, 2011
5:24 pm

Hey Fred,
I saved 20 jubs today!! I had lunch at S and W Cafeteria so I saved the lineworkers jobs, the kitchen workers jobs, and the tableclearers jobs. SEE I am a stimulus package all by myself!!

Fred

June 29th, 2011
5:27 pm

Woodstock Mike? Are you like 6 or something or just unaware of History? THe Chicago Gov’t has been one of the most corrupt in the nation for at LEAST 150-200 years. THAT is Obama’s fault lol? And President bush “caused” Hurricane Katrina and allowed the levies in New Orleans to be in an abysmal state of disrepair too right?

oldguy

June 29th, 2011
5:27 pm

Why would he veto it, only you thought it was a corporate welfare bill! Remember “Tax cheat” Timmy G thought it saved the economy, the country, the world, civilization itself!

Joe Mama

June 29th, 2011
5:28 pm

Mike — I thought he was from Kenya. Can’t y’all make up your MINDS? (laughing) :D

Fred

June 29th, 2011
5:28 pm

There ya go oldguy. You are a life changer. Gives you a warm fuzzy and a little bit of a woody doesn’t it?

oldguy

June 29th, 2011
5:31 pm

Fred,
Last time I checked crime was down in NO; so the hurricane actually did a favor for the city! And look at all that new “Green” wetland it created!! A Win-Win situation!

Fred

June 29th, 2011
5:31 pm

sorry oldguy, i can’t keep up with the “clever” little names that you whacked out fanatics (left and right) make up for your “opponents” for their evil deeds (real as well as perceived). I don’t know who “Tax cheat” Timmy G, is.

Fred

June 29th, 2011
5:32 pm

no sh…… kidding oldguy. I just wish so many of the criminals hadn’t landed here………

oldguy

June 29th, 2011
5:35 pm

Time to go save some more jobs with my government welfare check (SS)(big macks anyone?).

oldguy

June 29th, 2011
5:37 pm

Roger the landed here Fred!!

oldguy

June 29th, 2011
5:39 pm

p.s. I get better political advice on Spongebob than anywhere else!!

Curious Observer

June 29th, 2011
6:42 pm

But hey….we created 562,000 jobs at the cost of $1.4 Million/job. Great job.

That stimulus funded the entire payroll of the Georgia state government for the entire fourth quarter and part of the third–to keep jerks like you from seeing a state tax increase. Your Ol’ Sonny wasn’t terribly thrilled about letting you know that, and now you do. A whole bunch of states would be in a lot more financial trouble if not for the stimulus. You show a total lack of class and a partisan bent in ascribing all the stimulus to job creation.

Bud Wiser

June 29th, 2011
7:28 pm

The best “shovel ready” job that this moron for a president we have is to have someone shovel the same old sh*t that pours out of his mouth.

Talk about job security…………..

CLARENCE SWINNEY

June 30th, 2011
6:08 pm

END OF EMPIRE?
ROME SPAIN HOLLAND ENGLAND AMERICA
INEQUALITY–OVER EXTENSION WORLDWID—E DEBT DEBT DEBT
 
1945-1980 GREAT YEARS OF HIGH EQUALITY RANKING ON GINI SCALE
TODAY–FOURTH FROM BOTTOM OF 31 RICH NATIONS
 
WHY? HOW?
 
REDISTRIBUTION OF WEALTH –
REAGAN 60% TAX CUT FOR TOP 1%
REAGAN INCREASE SPENDING 80%
REAGAN INCREASE DEBT 180%
BUSH HUGE TAX CUT FOR TOP 1%
BUSH INCREASE SPENDING 92%
BUSH INCREASE DEBT 112%
THREE REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTS INITIATED OUR INVOLVEMENT IN 10 FOREIGN CONFLICTS
 
1945-1% OWN 30% ALL FINANCIAL WEALTH
1980-1% ON 20% ALL FINANCIAL WEALTH
2009-1% OWN 43% ALL FINANCIAL WEALTH
 
LIKE BANANAS?

CLARENCE SWINNEY

June 30th, 2011
6:19 pm

31 RICH NATIONS AMERICA IS NEXT TO LAST IN PERCENT OF GDP IN REVENUE TAKEN BY THE BY FEDERAL GOVERNMENT
Since 1980, we became world leader in Spend and Borrow from world’s largest creditor to largest debtor.
Twenty years of so-called Conservative Leadership.
Reagan set off the bomb by presenting 8 budgets which spent more in 8 than we had spent in prior 50 years. More in 8 than in 50. 7079 TO 6066.
Conservative spin is–Oh! Congress did it. Sorry! Congress returned his 8 with fewer dollars. Oh! Inflation adjusted dollars.Sorry! from 1948 to 1989 in 1988 dollars Reagan spent 2.4 dollars a year for each dollar spent in other 32 years. Sorry! He first big Spend & Borrow in peace time.
Big taxer. Raised taxes 11 times and cut 4 times. Conservative?

Darko

July 1st, 2011
8:04 am

Jay said:
“Most of them DO have skin in the game, Leg Lamp. That “skin” is merely acquired through the payroll tax rather than the income tax, a fact that you and others for some reason studiously ignore.”

No, that’s why certain “income” tax credits are refundable beyond the amount of income tax paid, such as the Earned Income Tax Credit and Child Tax Credit. With those credits, it is very possible to have such a large refund of income tax beyond any tax due that it more than offsets any payroll taxes withheld, meaning there is a significant number of people with a zero or negative tax burden.

Republicans Say They

July 5th, 2011
11:03 am

[...] it changed because they would lose control and would not be able to use it as a campaign point Who pays The Tax Policy Center has released its latest statistics about who pays — and who does not [...]

Mark

July 5th, 2011
3:11 pm

All very interesting and relevant points which are certainly worth reading. That being said, my wife and I pay taxes, a big number for what it’s worth and we’re proud to live in a Country that provides so much opportunity. I belive that the tax code is obviously broken when some folks pay no tax, not even one dollar and some folks earning extremely good incomes pay no tax either. The tax regulations are far too complex for the average American to understand and thats just wrong.

I belive evryone should have skin in the game but I have a very hard time understranding how 46%+ of the Federal revenue stream can be so fraught with errors, imbalances and complexity. There should be no loop holes, not for anyone, personal or corporate, period. We need to get our act together before it’s too late.