Who pays — and who doesn’t pay — income taxes

The Tax Policy Center has released its latest statistics about who pays — and who does not pay — federal income taxes. According to its numbers, 46.4 percent of “tax units” in America will pay no income tax this year.

More than half of those non-paying units make less than $16,812. More than 80 percent make less than $33,542. Some will no doubt focus their outrage on those lower-income folks, but I’m more intrigued by the fact that 3,000 “tax units” with incomes above $2.18 million paid no income tax. All in all, 446,000 “tax units” with incomes above $103,465 paid no income tax on that money, a figure that includes capital gains taxes.

2011Now let’s put that in context, historical and otherwise.

First, personal income taxes account for just 44 percent of federal revenue. Payroll taxes account for 37.1 percent of revenue this year, and those taxes are paid by almost all of these “tax units” who don’t pay income taxes, with the exception of those whose main income is Social Security, pensions or investments.

1951Second, while the percentage of revenue raised through the personal income tax has remained relatively stable since World War II, the mix of revenue from other sources has shifted noticeably. Compared to 60 years ago, the payroll tax has tripled in importance as a revenue source, while the corporate income tax has fallen by two-thirds.

Let the call to raise taxes on the poor, the elderly on fixed income and lower-income earners begin.

– Jay Bookman

720 comments Add your comment

The Leg Lamp is a "major award".....

June 29th, 2011
8:04 am

godless heathen

June 29th, 2011
8:05 am

Corporations pay zero taxes. Stockholders and customers do.

The Leg Lamp is a "major award".....

June 29th, 2011
8:05 am

“tax units”…..don’t you just love it. Sounds like something Anthony Weiner would say.

stands for decibels

June 29th, 2011
8:06 am

Obviously we need to screw working class Americas even more than they’re being screwed now. Shared sacrifice!

stands for decibels

June 29th, 2011
8:07 am

The Leg Lamp is a "major award".....

June 29th, 2011
8:08 am

“Let the call to raise taxes on the poor, the elderly on fixed income and lower-income earners begin.”

Jay, I believe the only party pushing for tax increases is the Democrat party. So are you bashing them?

Normal

June 29th, 2011
8:09 am

I file, but I always get money back…does that count?

Normal

June 29th, 2011
8:10 am

Leg,
you’re a hoot.

The Leg Lamp is a "major award".....

June 29th, 2011
8:11 am

Normal
June 29th, 2011
8:09 am

If you don’t get back ALL of what you pay then, yes, that counts in my book.

Thomas

June 29th, 2011
8:12 am

You miss many points Jay. First you completely leave out refundable credits which refunds means the a great number of low income earners are actually paid back their withholding and are in effect paid by the fed to work. Your “glob” would get a D- on a seventh grade essay. Second, using your logic, corporations should not pay tax as they account for so little of the tax basis anyway. I assume you did a have arse job to get a number of responses.

A resonable person has no “outrage” as you call it. A person who is around folks who a) get their first job or b) do well and get a raise have seen first hand the pride in paying tax and contributing to this great country. It doesn’t have to be much, but the widow’s mite is a great story for a reason.

Uncle Jed

June 29th, 2011
8:13 am

First, personal income taxes account for just 44 percent of federal revenue. Payroll taxes account for 37.1 percent of revenue this year, and those taxes are paid by almost all of these “tax units” who don’t pay income taxes, with the exception of those whose main income is Social Security, pensions or investments.
++++++++++++++++
Let the call to raise taxes on the poor, the elderly on fixed income and lower-income earners begin.

A couple of points:
1) Payroll taxes are essentially personal income taxes as all taxes are personal taxes when we get right down to it, as every tax is on the back of the consumer, one way or another.

2) In many cases, “investments” create jobs, especially ownership of the majority of stocks.
++++++++++++++++
3) Every citizen shouls have “skin in the game”, albeit nearly nothing for certain categories. I say this because it seems that too many are disconnected from the process to understand that tax revenues are not generated out of thin air, but rather from the work of fellow citizens. It helps foment the class warfare that certain political alliances need in order top garner votes.

I have a class at 9:00 and have to go, so don’t accuse me of hiding when no response is posted ;-)

ty webb

June 29th, 2011
8:14 am

Normal,
no it just means they took more than they “needed”. “congrats” on getting your interest free loan to the federal government “back”.

The Leg Lamp is a "major award".....

June 29th, 2011
8:15 am

During the big Obamacare debate the POTUS said he wanted everyone to “have some skin in the game”. Why should the same not apply to taxes?

Granny Godzilla

June 29th, 2011
8:16 am

There are 78,000 tax filers with incomes of $211,000 to $533,000 who will pay no federal income taxes this year.

Even more amazingly, there are 24,000 households with incomes of $533,000 to $2.2 million with zero income tax liability, and 3,000 tax filers with incomes above $2.2 million with the same federal income tax liability as most of those with incomes barely above the poverty level.

From Andrew Sullivan

Uncle Jed

June 29th, 2011
8:16 am

Sorry for the typos. Will I ever learn the art of pre-submit proofreading?!?

Jay

June 29th, 2011
8:16 am

Wrong, Thomas. If you had taken the time to click the link, you would have discovered that the data take account for tax credits, etc.

As to “using your logic, corporations should not pay tax as they account for so little of the tax basis anyway,” I have no idea what you’re trying to say.

stranger in a strange land

June 29th, 2011
8:17 am

Wish I could play along today, but have to go earn some money, so I can pay taxes, so they can be effectively, and efficiently redistributed from DC land.
Stands for decibels @ 0806 – middle class: you may now assume the position.

The Leg Lamp is a "major award".....

June 29th, 2011
8:17 am

Granny Godzilla
June 29th, 2011
8:16 am

So you’re a proponent of the “fair tax” movement?

Thomas

June 29th, 2011
8:18 am

Granny- patently false. You must mean gross income or adjusted gross income as folks with taxable income generally pay tax.

“There are 78,000 tax filers with incomes of $211,000 to $533,000 who will pay no federal income taxes this year”.

Deductions are allowed against gross income.

Jay

June 29th, 2011
8:19 am

Most of them DO have skin in the game, Leg Lamp. That “skin” is merely acquired through the payroll tax rather than the income tax, a fact that you and others for some reason studiously ignore.

Again, the payroll tax raises close to the same amount as the income tax. How and why is it possible to just exclude that fact from your reality?

Gale

June 29th, 2011
8:19 am

Everytime in my adult life that I have heard of tax reform, the changes end up putting more burden on the low middle income earner. Personally, I don’t consider the upper range of middle income to be $250k/year.

The Leg Lamp is a "major award".....

June 29th, 2011
8:21 am

Jay
June 29th, 2011
8:19 am

The key phrase in your post is “Most of them DO have skin in the game”. Why not all?

Gale

June 29th, 2011
8:21 am

back to work for me.

Peadawg

June 29th, 2011
8:21 am

I’m surprised Jay didn’t do a column on this:

http://www.ajc.com/business/coburn-lieberman-seek-to-991056.html

“Two Senate rebels jumped into Congress’ cut-the-deficit competition on Tuesday, proposing to raise the age of Medicare eligibility to 67 and increase monthly premiums for millions of current beneficiaries.”

“The plan the two men outlined includes a gradual increase over the next five years in the monthly premium that seniors pay for doctor and other non-hospital services. Aides said it would translate into a monthly increase of $15 to $20 initially.

The age of eligibility would rise gradually from 65 to 67.

For the first time, better-off seniors would be charged more money for Medicare Part A, which covers hospital care.”

Sounds pretty good to me. Let’s see if we can the Democrats on board.

Jay

June 29th, 2011
8:22 am

To your point, Gale, 95 percent of “tax units” have income of less than $210,998. So $250,000 isn’t “middle” in any sense unless you define middle as the middle 97 percent or so.

Granny Godzilla

June 29th, 2011
8:23 am

Leggy

I love the “So you must be ….” start of a rightie post.

Really I do.

So….leggy you must be for beheading poor people who don’t pay income taxes.

So….leggy I can see you support debtors prisons.

So…leggy you are in favor of screwing the middle class.

So….leggy you are obviously a coporate toadie.

It’s time to retire your crystal balls.

The Leg Lamp is a "major award".....

June 29th, 2011
8:23 am

Peadawg
June 29th, 2011
8:21 am

“Let’s see if we can the Democrats on board.”

Is that an oxymoron? :lol:

Thomas

June 29th, 2011
8:25 am

Read it Jay-

(4) of the population o ftax units that do not pay a positive amount of individual INCOME tax, 10% receive a net refund of $4,094 or more, and 25% receive a net refund of $1,368 or more. It also shows that more than 50% of tax units that do not pay a positive tax paid exactly zero tax.

comment stands

“First, personal income taxes account for just 44 percent of federal revenue”

I suggest you go research what percent of revenue comes from corps and apply the same logic dude.

Left wing management

June 29th, 2011
8:25 am

So $250,000 isn’t “middle” in any sense unless you define middle as the middle 97 percent or so.

To the Koch brothers, who as we speak are in the process of buying this democracy, $250k is pretty small fish indeed.

Granny Godzilla

June 29th, 2011
8:25 am

oh and Thomas

see Jay’s 8:16

Andrew Sullivan, respected gay conservative, was discussing the same
report

Peadawg

June 29th, 2011
8:25 am

Instead of being a b*ch, Granny, you could have polity said, “no, I’m not a proponent of the fair tax”. But you chose the other route. O well.

The Leg Lamp is a "major award".....

June 29th, 2011
8:25 am

Granny Godzilla
June 29th, 2011
8:23 am

You’re erroneous, as usual, with your assumptions, but at least you brought some heat. Your earlier post was merely a cut and paste job and you stated nothing.

Anyway, the contents of your latest post reveals a darker, scarier side than I see from most libs.

thomas

June 29th, 2011
8:27 am

Am I reading the link wrong or does it say that of those with no personal tax liability, that atleast 35% of them get back over $1,000?

Why are we giving this money to them and in some cases would those amounts exceed what is being paid in payroll tax?

Like with over $4,000 being given back to the lowest 10%, seems they would most likely be liable for less than 4k in payroll taxes. meaning everyone does not have skin in the game as you and others sasy, right?

stands for decibels

June 29th, 2011
8:27 am

Let’s see if we can the Democrats on board.

We certainly ought to can any “Democrats” who get on board with this, and replace them with real ones.

stands for decibels

June 29th, 2011
8:28 am

Anyway, got to get back to producin’ so I can pay for some primary challengers…

Thomas

June 29th, 2011
8:28 am

Lttle “t” thomas you are correct. I would gladly run an example for our man Jay on tax software.

Aquagirl

June 29th, 2011
8:28 am

Corporations pay zero taxes. Stockholders and customers do.

This Boortzism, like all the others, makes no sense. Corporate employees only pay taxes because they get paychecks from the company. This means the corporation pays their income taxes too?

All life begins and ends with the Company, praised be its sacred name!

The Leg Lamp is a "major award".....

June 29th, 2011
8:28 am

Granny Godzilla
June 29th, 2011
8:23 am

By the way, I believe the “crystal balls” were retired when Congressman Weiner resigned. :lol:

thomus

June 29th, 2011
8:28 am

You must mean gross income or adjusted gross income as folks with taxable income generally pay tax.

what dus this mean,thomast?

Peadawg

June 29th, 2011
8:29 am

“We certainly ought to can any “Democrats” who get on board with this, and replace them with real ones.” – There we go. Congrats, stands. I’d expect nothing less from the party that thinks everything’s just peachy w/ Medicare and nothing needs to be done (except to raise taxes and call it a day).

Granny Godzilla

June 29th, 2011
8:29 am

leggy

You went from the

“So you must……” to “cut and Paste”

got anything new?

ty webb

June 29th, 2011
8:29 am

Granny G,
regarding andrew sullivan, “Gay”? Yes. “Respected” and “conservative”? No. The guy’s a “useful idiot” for your “side”. In other words, he’s a gay, slightly more attractive, “meghan mccain”.

The Leg Lamp is a "major award".....

June 29th, 2011
8:30 am

Aquagirl
June 29th, 2011
8:28 am

“All life begins and ends with the Company, praised be its sacred name!”

The libs believe all life begins and ends with the government. If you want to see how a nanny state functions, look at the news clips from Greece.

Lone Star State

June 29th, 2011
8:31 am

Since Georgia no longer wants illegal immigrants and Texas has decided to leave the U.S. behind, they are now welcoming all immigrants!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCLz7XQOIOQ

Granny Godzilla

June 29th, 2011
8:32 am

ty webb

Andrew Sullivan remains a respected gay conservative –

your “nannie nannie boo boo”, high school slam book, note passing kinda post is really childish.

thomas

June 29th, 2011
8:33 am

wow!

how did this happen I have had same name here for like 3 or 4 years, I go away for about a month and poof!

A Big “T” Thomas is here and a thom”u”s too.

The Leg Lamp is a "major award".....

June 29th, 2011
8:33 am

Granny Godzilla
June 29th, 2011
8:29 am

“got anything new?”

Look at your 8:23. Got anything new?

stranger in a strange land

June 29th, 2011
8:34 am

aqua girl – vis a vis ‘all life begins/ends with the government? If those are the chlice – I’ll take my chances with the ‘company’.

Producer

June 29th, 2011
8:35 am

Make all of those 46% tax “units” pay something in income taxes. Isn’t that only fair?

ty webb

June 29th, 2011
8:35 am

Granny G,
Thanks, I take that as a compliment. But who exactly “respects” the “conservative” andrew sullivan? Chris matthews? Bill maher? readers of “the daily beast”?

poison pen

June 29th, 2011
8:36 am

The reason it’s only 44% is because the rest don’t pay taxes, geeze, that wasn’t to hard to figure out.

There have been many people on here, including myself, that want most of the loopholes closed and subsidies stopped.

Granny fan

June 29th, 2011
8:36 am

I love me some Granny Godzilla. She is a hoot ! And smart too !

Mark in mid-town

June 29th, 2011
8:36 am

Jay, should payroll taxes really be considered taxes, or should they be considered akin to a person contributing to their 401K plan?

The Leg Lamp is a "major award".....

June 29th, 2011
8:37 am

Granny fan
June 29th, 2011
8:36 am

So now Granny Godzilla is posting under two names…. :cool:

Granny Godzilla

June 29th, 2011
8:38 am

The Leg Lamp is a “major award”…..

June 29th, 2011
8:33 am
Granny Godzilla
June 29th, 2011
8:29 am

“got anything new?”

Look at your 8:23. Got anything new?

yep, it was the first time I ever addressed the sillines of the “So you must……” silliness that we see here

that’s called new

CJ

June 29th, 2011
8:39 am

I wish Jay would do a piece on Neil Boortz’s lie that “corporations don’t pay taxes, people do.”

Boortz has persuaded his devoted listeners that all corporate income taxes are just passed on to consumers via higher prices. Evidently, he would have them believe, Mr. CEO says, our taxes went up $5 per unit. Okay, let’s raise the retail price $5 per unit.

Now if you like to let corporate-backed talk show hosts do your thinking for you, then at first blush, I can see why that would make perfect sense. But if you take a couple of minutes to consider it, you might recall that retail prices are ultimately set by the forces of supply and demand, not willy, nilly when the CEO gets a bug up his…

After thinking about it some more, you might also recall that corporate income taxes are only due if and when the company makes a profit. Mr. CEO isn’t going to increase prices if it reduces profits.

To the extent that corporate income taxes are paid for by people, they’re paid by the investors indirectly in the form of lower profits–not the consumers. The people who live primarily off of inheritances and investments are the people who Neil Boortz represents. That’s why he wants to shift the entire tax burden from corporations, inheritances, dividends, and capital gains to those who set their alarms and go to work every day.

Jimmy62

June 29th, 2011
8:39 am

I have no problem with low income folks not paying income tax. I do have a problem with them getting to vote. If you take more from society than you contribute, then you shouldn’t get a vote. Same goes for rich people who avoid paying taxes. And then if you’re poor and want to vote, you can voluntarily give up your government assistance payments of whatever type you are getting.

Granny Godzilla

June 29th, 2011
8:39 am

ty webb

let me help you….it was not a compliment….

shawny

June 29th, 2011
8:39 am

I pay a crapload. More than I should. No, Jay, I do not suggest that we increases taxes on the lower brackets.

I suggest that we remove ALL deductions, save easy to prove donations to charitable organizations. Organizations that have to be proven. Streamline the process so that (almost) no IRS is needed at the federal or state level.

In addition, loopholes need to be removed on corporations that hide their money in ways that they do not have to pay taxes, like the very liberal G.E. They spend millions to save billions (an efficient ROI, yet criminal in my mind).

BADA BING

June 29th, 2011
8:39 am

This ‘tax unit’ doesn’t mind paying his share of taxes. It would be nice tho, if the Gov’t would reciprocate with some ‘results units’, and some ‘value units’.

Granny Godzilla

June 29th, 2011
8:40 am

The Leg Lamp is a “major award”…..

June 29th, 2011
8:37 am
Granny fan
June 29th, 2011
8:36 am

So now Granny Godzilla is posting under two names….

Not in years and years and years – Jay can verify – but that is really ironic soming from you

carlosgvv

June 29th, 2011
8:40 am

Politicians in both parties have increasingly been going after the weakest in our society, the poor and elderly, by taking away more of their entitlements. At the same time, they are trying as hard as possible to protect their rich sponsors. It’s no accident we have the best Congress money can buy.

Granny Godzilla

June 29th, 2011
8:42 am

Leggy

Am I your choice of topic today because you have no serious input on Jay’s?

Thanks, but try to focus, ok?

The Leg Lamp is a "major award".....

June 29th, 2011
8:42 am

Jimmy62
June 29th, 2011
8:39 am

Now there’s an idea. Might need to dig in it a little more, but a novel idea nonetheless.

TERRY TAYLOR

June 29th, 2011
8:43 am

What is not spoken of in Bookman’s editorial is that the top 2% of taxpayers pay at a 29.5% tax rate on income taxes, including income, Social Security and Medicare – aka, everything. The middle quintile pays 14.3% – less than half the rate actually paid by the affluent. Again, all taxes, including payroll. And the top 2% earns 19% of household income but pays 28% of federal taxes paid by households. The middle quintile earns 13% of income, but pays 9% of total taxes paid by households. That’s a pretty progressive system – at least that’s what the Congressional Budget Office said when they provided these figures.
Mr. Bookman focuses on only one thing, and unfortunately it is a pretty shallow “analysis” and a weak conclusion http://www.cbo.gov/publications/collections/tax/2010/AverageFedTaxRates2007.pdf

Jimmy62

June 29th, 2011
8:44 am

CJ: Oh yeah, your grasp of economics is fantastic. Basically you are saying the cost of making an item (which does include taxes) has nothing to do with the price that item will be sold at. And that’s an absolutely ludicrous position to take.

Yes, they want to maximize profits to shareholders, that is their reason for existing. And sometimes they cannot pass the entire tax increase on to consumers because it would cause their sales to fall and reduce their profits. So they find a happy balance. And then next year when the government gets a bug up its butt and decides to change the tax rates again, the corporation has to adjust prices again. And this all costs more money. So then you have a company forced to make changes to their business not because of supply and demand and consumer needs, but because of the whims of politicians.

But overall for you to say a rise in the cost of an item will be reflected by shareholder profits and not at all by the price of item is one of the most ridiculous things I’ve ever read on here.

thomas

June 29th, 2011
8:44 am

Mark in mid-town

June 29th, 2011
8:36 am

Nice point since the payroll tax deductions are for specific programs, medicare and social security.

What say you Jay?

Seems as if the payroll tax is nothing more than a non-intrest bearing savings account.

Or is monies collected from SS and Medicare used to fund other government programs?

williebkind

June 29th, 2011
8:44 am

Every year the progressive liberals have problems paying for their slaves upkeep on the democratic plantation. We get into who pays what and how much they pay et…It is boring. Stop spending and the debt will decrease rapidly. I am a typical American, you can tax the rich guy but leave me alone. Now we have to define rich. Ask Sorros.

Aquagirl

June 29th, 2011
8:45 am

aqua girl – vis a vis ‘all life begins/ends with the government?

Who said that? Oh, yeah, Leg, in a diatribe about “libs” a mythical group to discuss when trying to avoid the topic.

I can tell you an actual existing human being (loose term) who blathers the “no corporate taxes” line and a programmed sheep who bleats this Boortzism. Lacking any decent response, Leg quickly flings together a flimsy straw man of “libs” and waves it about.

You can play with your strawman dolly all day long. Have a little tea party with it. No interest here. This isn’t talk radio, Bubba.

RAMBLE ON!!!

June 29th, 2011
8:45 am

From the title, I figured Jay was talking about King Obama’s Cabinet, and the rest of the Democrats on Capital Hill.

The Leg Lamp is a "major award".....

June 29th, 2011
8:45 am

Granny Godzilla
June 29th, 2011
8:42 am

BAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!! I believe you’ve submitted 7 posts and only one was on topic. At least Jay responded to one of my posts. Naturely it was negative, but it was a response nonetheless.

Using your words, “Thanks, but try to focus, ok?”

Jay

June 29th, 2011
8:48 am

Mark, at one point I would have said that the payroll taxes were indeed akin to paying into a 401-k. However, since many hundreds of billions of payroll-tax dollars have been “borrowed” over the years to fund general gov’t operations, I think that distinction is becoming somewhat moot.

As to the discussion about credits such as the Earned Income Tax Credit delivering “refunds” to people who don’t pay income taxes, that’s all correct. The EITC was initially a conservative idea to reward and encourage work rather than welfare, and was greatly expanded under Reagan. To get some idea of the income levels involved, a single person qualifies for the EITC only if he or she makes less than $13K.

bob

June 29th, 2011
8:48 am

Jay, the paroll tax is a penalty for responsible people and we lose the earning power of that money.
For the poor, it is their IRA and 401K rolled into one, they should pay it.

The Leg Lamp is a "major award".....

June 29th, 2011
8:48 am

Aquagirl
June 29th, 2011
8:45 am

Avoiding the topic? You were ending a rant and I merely change a few things and mirrored your rant.

By the way, how do you REALLY feel about Neal Boortz? :cool:

Steven Q. Stanley

June 29th, 2011
8:49 am

Half the country pays no income tax and we wonder why we are 14 trillion in debt. Time to stop with the class warfare and close all the loopholes on all Americans. Americans have almost unanimously demanded bigger government and higher spending, we should all pay for it. I am not wealthy, and I was also in the 1-2% of Americans who actually voted for smaller, less costly government, but I am willing to pay my share to avoid leaving this debt to my children.

Until we ignore the Rush Limbaughs and Jay Bookmans of the world with their demagoguery and class war fare we are doomed. Call your congressman and senators and demand they severely cut spending and significantly raise taxes. Especially if you have kids.

A Conservative Voice

June 29th, 2011
8:50 am

Hey Bookman, every “citizen” in this country is privileged to live here. Everyone, and I mean everyone should shoulder some of the tax burden over and above payroll taxes. Just because you only make 16K per year doesn’t mean you should be able to skip your responsibility. Lets have a 1% consumption tax to ensure that everyone pays……everyone, including tourists from abroad and particularly Mexico.

The Leg Lamp is a "major award".....

June 29th, 2011
8:52 am

Granny Godzilla
June 29th, 2011
8:49 am

“So …..you don’t think women should be able to defend themselves?”

Who said that? Ah, I see. Continuing to move the target when you have nothing. You’d be a terrible poker player because you’re all bluff.

Anyway, yes, women

thomas

June 29th, 2011
8:53 am

Jay

June 29th, 2011
8:48 am

Is it not also true that the same single person can make as much as $35,000 if they have 1 child? With that isn’t the maxiumu amoutn they are able to recive then like 3 grand?

Really people making 35k need another 3k from the government?

Or am I completely misunderstanding the information i am looking at about EITC?

The Leg Lamp is a "major award".....

June 29th, 2011
8:54 am

Oops, ended that last one a little too quickly.

Yes, women should be able to defend themselves and most are capable of doing so intelligently. You, on the other hand……..

Thomas

June 29th, 2011
8:54 am

Lets have a 1% consumption tax to ensure that everyone pays……

exactly

raise some on “high earners” cut some deductions, fine

Easy question is would you rather own a rental home and lease to a Section 8 renter or a person who has worked 10 years as a plumber. Skin in the game is the only way.

commoncents

June 29th, 2011
8:55 am

Left Wing Management @ 8:25
“So $250,000 isn’t “middle” in any sense unless you define middle as the middle 97 percent or so.

To the Koch brothers, who as we speak are in the process of buying this democracy, $250k is pretty small fish indeed.”

As compared to Soros, who is in the process of buying our courts?

Scooter (The Original)

June 29th, 2011
8:56 am

Those who showed INCOME of 2.18 Million no doubt purchased many expensive retail goods and would’ve paid a lot of tax under the FairTax. Along with all those drug dealers, shade tree mechanics and others who don’t report income. Additionally, the FairTax’s prebate would allow those current non-payers to remain non-payers and keep their payroll taxes, that’s a win for the poor. But it would return power to the people and take it away from our enlightened officials. The close minded resistance to its possibility leads me to believe many Americans now like to be controlled by government.

The Leg Lamp is a "major award".....

June 29th, 2011
8:56 am

What I find interesting about this whole debate is how the left automatically defaults to tax increases when we have a Congress (both parties are guilty) that cannot efficiently handle the money they’re already taking in.

Do you run your households this way? When your expenses exceed your income do you demand a pay raise so you won’t have to alter your present lifestyle?

Granny Godzilla

June 29th, 2011
8:56 am

The Leg Lamp is a “major award”…..

June 29th, 2011
8:37 am
Granny fan
June 29th, 2011
8:36 am

So now Granny Godzilla is posting under two names….

Not in years and years and years – Jay can verify – but that is really ironic soming from you

Rafe Hollister

June 29th, 2011
8:57 am

Payroll taxes (FicA) were established to fund SSA. Most of us realize that there is no SSA Trust Fund and the money is dumped into the general fund.

The problem is that most Americans think they are paying their FICA into a special fund, where it is accumulating and will be refunded to them as SS payments. They do not realize they are paying taxes and there act like they “have no skin in the game”. They vote to increase benefits and entitlements because they think someone else is paying the freight. Everyone needs to be required to pay some income tax, so establish a minimum federal income tax, even if it is $2. At least people would then take some interest in the stewardship of their contribution.

CJ

June 29th, 2011
8:57 am

Jimmy62,

What is the source of your confusion? Corporate income taxes come out of profits. Lower profits, lower taxes. No profits, no taxes. Surely we can agree on that much.

No company is going to raise prices because their tax rate went up when doing so reduces demand for their product or service such that profits go down or disappear. That would be cutting off its proverbial nose to spite it proverbial face.

With regard to this quote: “But overall for you to say a rise in the cost of an item will be reflected by shareholder profits and not at all by the price of item is one of the most ridiculous things I’ve ever read on here.” The rise in the cost of an item is not reflected by the price of the item? I have no idea what this gibberish means.

Gordon

June 29th, 2011
8:57 am

Is it unreasonable for everyone to have some “skin in the game?” If you pay no federal income tax, why would you every be against any proposal that costs the federal government money? Some should pay very little (3%?), but every earner should pay something.

On another subject, when talking about the Social Security, it is interesting that we tend to couple it with the federal government when talking about revenue, but pretend it is something separate when talking about expenses (i.e. the “trust fund”). When properly looking at Social Security as simply part of the federal government, one realizes that the trust fund is meaningless because it becomes money that the government owes itself.

Paul

June 29th, 2011
8:58 am

“3,000 “tax units” with incomes above $2.18 million paid no income tax. All in all, 446,000 “tax units” with incomes above $103,465 paid no income tax on that money, a figure that includes capital gains taxes.”

In the current Wonderland of definitions, correcting the narrowly-targeted deductions that lead to zero taxes for this segment is called, by the current orthodox Republicans, a ‘tax increase.”

So the soundbite wins, again. Until Nov 2012, that is.

I read some references to corporate taxes. June 27 of Newsweek had an interview with Pres Clinton, who noted that although America now has the second-highest tax rate in the world, the amount paid is nowhere near that, which is why he supports recommendations of Bowles-Simpson to lower the rate, reforming the tax code and broadening the base so all of them end up paying a reasonable amount on profits.

Left wing management

June 29th, 2011
8:58 am

A challenge to our right wing friends:

From Jay: Second, while the percentage of revenue raised through the personal income tax has remained relatively stable since World War II, the mix of revenue from other sources has shifted noticeably. Compared to 60 years ago, the payroll tax has tripled in importance as a revenue source, while the corporate income tax has fallen by two-thirds.

Just curious whether any of our Tea Party-inclined folks here find that their blood boils to hear that revenues from corporate taxes have fallen drastically even as jobs have been increasingly being shipped overseas.

Does that bother any of our resident conservatives here? Maybe just a little?

TallaDawg

June 29th, 2011
9:00 am

Stranger @ 8:34 – Small, local or regional companies, yes; large corporations, NO. You must be crazy, IF you are talking about any company large enough to be on the Fortune 1000. At least everyone, no matter their financial state, gets to vote (with the legal and constituitional exceptions noted). The managment of most large corporations only look after their SHORT -TERM profits and do not even really care about their own stockholders beyond a couple of years.

RB from Gwinnett

June 29th, 2011
9:00 am

“Most of them DO have skin in the game, Leg Lamp. That “skin” is merely acquired through the payroll tax rather than the income tax, a fact that you and others for some reason studiously ignore.”

Jay, you’re not begging for a payroll tax increase, you’re begging for an income tax increase. So, why do the 47% care about that? It means NOTHING to them. That’s the problem, Jay, and you know it.

Also, if the 450K who make more than you and pay no taxes have done something illegal to avoid paying taxes, try them and put them in jail. If they’ve followed the tax code and pay no taxes, why are you whining about them? If you don’t like the deductions they’re taking, whine to your congressmen about the tax code, but at least have the common decency to focus your poutrage in at the right people.

Jay

June 29th, 2011
9:01 am

If corporations don’t pay taxes, why do corporations pay billions of dollars to hire tax accountants, attorneys and lobbyists to lower the taxes that they allegedly don’t pay?

Truth

June 29th, 2011
9:02 am

Just more proof we need the Fair Tax

The Leg Lamp is a "major award".....

June 29th, 2011
9:02 am

Granny Godzilla
June 29th, 2011
8:56 am

“but that is really ironic soming from you”

soming?

Anyway, now who is using “crystal balls”? If you’re accusing me of using multiple names, then please provide those names. You’ll be wrong, as usual. Just endless accusations when you have no proof. Typical lib.

Paul

June 29th, 2011
9:04 am

CJ 8:39

“Boortz has persuaded his devoted listeners that all corporate income taxes are just passed on to consumers via higher prices.”

The flip side of that, according to the ‘free market rules’ we hear so much about, is that is costs go down prices go down accordingly? For those who say, ‘no, corporations will hire more people, etc” – I don’t belive the data would bear that out. What is evident for many corporations (example, Disney) is that when cuts are made top-tier compensation goes up.

The Leg Lamp is a "major award".....

June 29th, 2011
9:04 am

Jay
June 29th, 2011
9:01 am

I thought they “pay billions of dollars to hire tax accountants” to comply with Sarbanes/Oxley. :cool:

Gordon

June 29th, 2011
9:04 am

Maybe it’s time to end the charade and eliminate the payroll tax and raise the rates (and close the loopholes) on the general tax. Then everyone would understand what the real situation is with social security and everyone would be paying something, which might make more people care how their money was being spent in Washington. That would also do something liberals love, generate more revenue for the federal government, since there would be no cap like there is now on the OASDI part of Social Security.

Mighty Righty

June 29th, 2011
9:05 am

Did you har Harry Reids latest dumb remark? Old Harry said individuals who own “corporate jets” should be taxed at a higher rate. Typical Democrat. Harry, corporate jets are owned by corporations! Individuals own personal jets. Reminds me of the lefties who insist on connecting “McCarthyism” with the “House Un-American Activities Committee,”

schoolmarm

June 29th, 2011
9:05 am

We paid more in federal income taxes than I made as a teacher last year. I don’t mind paying my fair share, but at what point are others expected to take care of themselves? I pretty much work for free anyway. If my taxes are raised, there’s really not much point in my continuing to work is there?

The Leg Lamp is a "major award".....

June 29th, 2011
9:06 am

Left wing management
June 29th, 2011
8:58 am

So what is your solution to protect jobs, higher taxes?