Ga. 400 trickery takes toll on gov’t credibility
Given modern cynicism regarding politicians, it’s nice to see that at least one promise to the voters is being kept.
With construction bonds paid off, the 50-cent toll on Ga. 400 is scheduled to end at 8 this evening, just as our leaders had promised us more than 20 years ago when they sought public support for the project.
No more worrying about your Cruise Card account. No more digging 50 cents out of your pocket as you pull up to the toll booth. The freedom of the American road is being restored, just as promised.
For a week anyway.
At 8 p.m. July 1, the 50-cent toll will be reintroduced and will stay on for another 10 years to finance another set of projects. As former Gov. Sonny Perdue explained last year after arranging the scheme, it will be a “new toll,” as opposed to the now-expiring toll.
Nobody’s fooled, of course. In fact, the week-long suspension threatens to confirm the belief of many voters that a deal isn’t really a deal, and that government isn’t to be trusted.
That attitude came up repeatedly in a series of “telephone town halls” conducted in counties around the region by the Atlanta Transportation Roundtable over the last two weeks. Members of the roundtable, a group of 21 elected local officials created by state law, took questions regarding the proposed 10-year, one-penny sales tax for transportation that voters will be asked to approve in July 2012.
Time and again, voters participating in the calls expressed doubt that proceeds of the tax would be used for transportation here in metro Atlanta and not be diverted to other parts of the state and other uses.
“How long is the tax, and how can we be sure it won’t be extended without public approval?” one caller from Cherokee County asked.
Tim Downing, the mayor of Holly Springs and a roundtable member, offered reassurance.
“There is no danger,” he told the caller, “and by law no one can extend the tax without voter approval.”
That’s true. Unlike the Ga. 400 promise, provisions are written into the law guaranteeing that proceeds of the tax are used solely for transportation projects in the metro region. The same is true of provisions ending the tax in 10 years.
Roundtable members and transportation planners do hope that once the initial 10-year tax expires, voters will be so pleased by what it has accomplished that they will renew it. That’s not a cause for worry; it’s a means of keeping leaders accountable. If they want voters to renew the tax in 2022, elected leaders know they can’t promise more than they can deliver, and they know they have to keep what promises they do make.
Overall, tens of thousands of metro Atlanta residents participated in at least part of a telephone town hall in the last two weeks. And while participants can’t be described as a scientific cross-section — not every voter is going to listen by phone to an hour-long transportation discussion — the information they produced was interesting.
In Gwinnett County, 50 percent of respondents listed a rail connection to Atlanta as their highest transportation priority. In Cobb County, 61 percent rated a rail link downtown as their highest priority. In Henry County, the most popular project was a commuter rail line linking Hampton and Atlanta.
But such sentiments were not unanimous. One caller from Cherokee County wanted assurance from Downing and County Commission Chairman Buzz Ahrens that there were no plans to bring “MARTA or Cobb-type mass transit” to that community.
“I really don’t think that it is a viable solution for Cherokee County,” the caller said. “There’s too much other things that come along with public transportation that we and my constituents find to be undesirable elements that go along with public transportation.”
He was reassured that no such projects are on the current list. However, two other callers expressed strong concern that without an eventual rail link between Cherokee and the rest of the region, the county would be left behind.
Based on comments in the Gwinnett County town hall, sentiments have evolved in that community as well.
“My wife and I are senior citizens,” a man identifying himself as Eugene said. “We are on a limited budget, and we may or may not live to see this through. But we would be glad to pay the 1-percent sales [tax] to bring our wonderful area into the 21st century.”
– Jay Bookman
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405 comments Add your comment
USinUK
June 24th, 2011
7:33 am
AUGH!!
what happened to formatting???
Joe The Plumber too.
June 24th, 2011
7:33 am
Jay, it doesn’t matter democrat or republican, to sort of quote Mr. Young, they all have ” a different lie for every set of eyes”.
Normal
June 24th, 2011
7:40 am
A non topic for me. Ga 400 is not on my map. As will be any other toll road they may devise. I will pay no tolls even if it means I take the long way home.
JohnnyReb
June 24th, 2011
7:42 am
JohnnyReb is against any type of public transportation that does not have a ralistic plan to become self sufficient. Tax payer money for start up is OK but not forever. MARTA can’t pay for itself similar to other light rail throughout the country. People who ride MARTA basically want a free ride instead of paying a fare equal to the value received. It has to be convenient and worthy without being welfare.
jt
June 24th, 2011
7:42 am
Never trust a man named Buzz with your money.
.
Vote no.
jt
June 24th, 2011
7:42 am
Or Deal.
USinUK
June 24th, 2011
7:46 am
jt – not even Aldrin?
andygrdzki
June 24th, 2011
7:47 am
JAY……. Let me see if I can stump you with a request……
How about some traveling music today for my trip to Iraq and Afghanistan?
stands for decibels
June 24th, 2011
7:48 am
plan to become self sufficient.
mass transit is always subsidized. everywhere. on the planet.
read. learn. jeez.
USinUK
June 24th, 2011
7:49 am
andy – dude. you REALLY need to find a better travel agent.
stands for decibels
June 24th, 2011
7:49 am
In Cobb County, 61 percent rated a rail link downtown as their highest priority.
anyone else hear Andy crying?
Normal
June 24th, 2011
7:49 am
Andy,
How about “We Gotta Get Out Of This Place” by the Animals?
stands for decibels
June 24th, 2011
7:50 am
And by that post @ 7.49 I didn’t mean “andygrdzki.” (Sorry. it was for the old-timers here.)
(ir)Rational
June 24th, 2011
7:51 am
Amusing how you seemed to believe the government was trustworthy before this happened.
Also, any type of public transportation that has to be propped up with money from the government forever, shouldn’t be on the table. Would I ride a train from Kennesaw into Buckhead, yeah if it saved me time and money. Even if it was close to the same price and saved me time I would. I’m for the general idea, but definitely against a permanent taxpayer supported system that, similar to MARTA never becomes self-supporting.
As far as the people of Cherokee County are concerned, they need to get over the idea that bringing public transportation into the county will result in more crime. If we’re to get a self-supporting transit system in Atlanta, it will have to go everywhere, and be accessible to everyone. A transit line into Cobb won’t support itself, a transit line into Cherokee going through Cobb has a chance.
stands for decibels
June 24th, 2011
7:51 am
How about some traveling music today for my trip to Iraq and Afghanistan?
I hope it’s not this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_cMF2eluxM
looting. murder. raaaaaaape…
stands for decibels
June 24th, 2011
7:53 am
Also, any type of public transportation that has to be propped up with money from the government forever, shouldn’t be on the table.
ahem. Is this thing on? Testing. Testing.
stands for decibels
June 24th, 2011
7:57 am
And yes, our cheap (yes, cheap) gasoline is also subsidized by trillion dollar democracy-spreadin’ Excellent Adventures. Has been for ages.
so we have a choice. we can prop up a filthy, unsustainable habit of having virtually everyone driving everywhere, or prop up a healthier, more sustainable mass transit system that provides alternatives that many people desperately want, and more people will need as they get older.
Gotta go produce. Don’t be schmucks, people.
(ir)Rational
June 24th, 2011
7:58 am
So, just because they’re saying it has to be propped up forever means it has to be? That isn’t a good argument.
Joe The Plumber too.
June 24th, 2011
7:58 am
andy, try out Stewart Francke’s new track Holler If You Hear Me featuring the Boss. Great track.
USinUK
June 24th, 2011
8:01 am
joe – 7:58 – got a linkee for that? looked on youtube – all they had was 2Pac
Joe The Plumber too.
June 24th, 2011
8:06 am
UK, go to stewartfrancke.com and it has the song on it, It’s title is Summer Soldier ( Holler If Ya Hear Me). Great stuff.
Steve P.
June 24th, 2011
8:09 am
Well there trying to make 400 self sustaining with the toll and everyone whines. Why dont highways have to be self sustaining???
USinUK
June 24th, 2011
8:09 am
joe – not bad! (love to check out new music recommendations)
(ir)Rational
June 24th, 2011
8:11 am
We’re already taxed to pay for the upkeep of the highways Steve. Why pay more in the form of a toll that was supposed to be ending permanently today?
(ir)Rational
June 24th, 2011
8:14 am
Man, this place is dead this morning. Is it because it is early? A topic that doesn’t spark too much debate? Or what?
Quagmire
June 24th, 2011
8:16 am
A 1 cent tax increase is the easiest to introduce. It’s so small, who can’t afford an extra penny? Then the next one, and the next one… Reminds me of death by a thousand cuts.
Jefferson
June 24th, 2011
8:18 am
Funny the folks doing the planning for roads as well as those who own the companies that build and fix roads have the nicest homes.
(ir)Rational
June 24th, 2011
8:20 am
They’re hoping you don’t notice this one, and then in a few years, they’re hoping you don’t notice the next one or the one after that. Yeah, death by a thousand cuts is a good way to look at it.
AmVet
June 24th, 2011
8:22 am
Morning, Bookmaniacs.
Nothing like a nice easy little ditty to start the day off with. Thanks, stands…(grin)
They should make Pray for Rain work at one of those toll booths for the next 20 years. Can you imagine how many times that fathead would get pelted with quarters? Karma, baby…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGcONiRQqcc
Call it like it is
June 24th, 2011
8:22 am
Okay if I’m the government and I’m really trying to push an upcoming TAX, my first thing would be to gain the trust of the public. Closing the tolls on 400 for a couple of days and then reopen them to say I kept my promise will not accomplish that goal. And these people wonder why we dont trust them.
And once again, how about if we do this lets keep the money in our own backyard and support these guys.
http://american-maglev.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=22
Thomas
June 24th, 2011
8:26 am
When the toll was introduced on 400 it was an easy prediction then that it would be extended into perpetuity. Does anyone remember about 5 years ago the AJC busted the State for diverting the funds. I will bet everyone’s net worth on this blog the same scenario will play out. Cheers.
Eric
June 24th, 2011
8:27 am
I would vote “no” for the penny sales tax. As mentioned, you can’t trust gov. to fund what it’s supposed to. Once in place, the tax is never ending, but redirected when it “expires.” As for Cherokee County, I say “bravo” to them. We are already into the 21st Century, and we don’t need anymore “progress.” I’m sick of the fear and worry about being “left behind.” I’d say preserve your residential areas and curb urban sprawl–there’s plenty of other states and towns people can live.
Whacks Eloquent
June 24th, 2011
8:27 am
Jay, where do you come down on the new HOT idea? On one hand, it will provide a new source for road funding, although whether enough to offset the construction costs remains to be seen.
But from a different angle, they are kicking out responsible citizens who have been carpooling (HOV-2) and it is only free for HOV-3 now, and then those with enough expendable discretionary funding can pay to ride in the lane, even if traveling solo.
Soothsayer
June 24th, 2011
8:28 am
“There’s too much other things that come along with public transportation that we and my constituents find to be undesirable elements that go along with public transportation.”
You mean naggers, don’t you?
(ir)Rational
June 24th, 2011
8:28 am
Call it like it is – The maglev is a great concept, I remember doing some research papers on them when I was in high school, but I don’t see that working here unless the airlines continue getting worse. The country is just too big for people to use trains to get across it when planes are so much quicker. That works well in Europe because the distances are less. As far as doing that in the Metro, that is a long distance, high speed option, not right for the mass transit within the city. At least that is the way I see it.
stranger in a strange land
June 24th, 2011
8:29 am
traveling music? how about Beatles – Tax Man. Seems appropriate
Brosephus
June 24th, 2011
8:30 am
Funny how people say MARTA’s not self-supporting or self-sustaining when, in actuality, it is the largest transit system that doesn’t get a penny of subsidizing funds from the state in which it operates. What is the true definition of self-supporting?
In what one MARTA board member called an “agonizing” decision, the transit agency on Wednesday voted to raise one-way fares from $2 to $2.50.
When the fare hike goes into effect on Oct. 2, a MARTA trip will cost more than a ride on the buses and subways of New York City, the nation’s largest transit system. MARTA serves 135,000 riders on an average weekday.
Just two years ago, at the time of the last fare increase, the basic MARTA fare was only $1.75. The price of a monthly pass, then $52.50, will now rise to $95, an 81 percent increase.
http://www.ajc.com/news/atlanta/marta-fares-to-jump-984396.html
Seems like everything else the GOP hates, they’ll underfund it in dramatic fashion. Then declare it’s a failure because it can’t sustain itself. Democrats don’t fare much better on this either. Atlanta had the chance 30 years ago to put together a system that would actually move people around. If done right, MARTA could have put Atlanta near the top of people’s lists to move their companies. I wouldn’t move a single employee somewhere where I know they’re gonna spend 40-50mins on average commuting to and from work.
I hope all the bigoted, ass-backward thinking jackasses are proud of the crap they dealt Atlanta. I’m sure W.T. Sherman would be proud of the mess they’ve left here.
carlosgvv
June 24th, 2011
8:31 am
So the law guarantees that proceeds from this tax will be used solely for transportation projects. In case you hadn’t noticed, obeying the law is now becoming optional. Just look at how our immigration laws are being enforced if there is any doubt.
Mike Jones
June 24th, 2011
8:32 am
Screwed by the Goverment? Not suprised at all.
(ir)Rational
June 24th, 2011
8:32 am
Soothsayer, why try and start that? That was an ignoramus on the town hall, not someone here. We get enough of that crap without having you having to start it for no good reason. Yeah, that is probably what they meant, but the ignorant will move farther out if they’re that worried about it. Leave it at that.
Common Since
June 24th, 2011
8:32 am
“There’s too much other things that come along with public transportation that we and my constituents find to be undesirable elements that go along with public transportation.”
I think he’s talking about black people.
jj
June 24th, 2011
8:35 am
As long as we’re talking about tolls.
GA 400 currently has nearly a $30mm cash surplus. The state told us the new interchange at I85 would cost over $40mm and that is why they had to extend the tolls. The bid for the project came in at $21mm, enough to pay cash for it and still have $9mm left over. The new lane stripes at the I85 junction we were told would cost $500K, actual cost $50k. It is one lie after another and they want us to “trust me”, good luck with that one.
Call it like it is
June 24th, 2011
8:36 am
“Call it like it is – The maglev is a great concept, I remember doing some research papers on them when I was in high school, but I don’t see that working here unless the airlines continue getting worse.”
I see your point, but I think your comparing this with Europe and Japan, this is much smaller and being built for metro areas, this is not a cross country train. 20 million per mile in construction, which is unheard of, and uses the power of roughly 30 hair dryers to propel itself. It can even recapture loss power when braking, You should really read thru the entire site.
Soothsayer
June 24th, 2011
8:36 am
My ex-wife was a nagger! That’s why we got a divorce!
(ir)Rational
June 24th, 2011
8:37 am
Brosephus – so a failing system, that has to cut services and raise prices and is losing way more money than it earns is “self-supporting” simply because the state doesn’t give it money? But everyone who buys anything in Fulton or Dekalb Counties does. Doesn’t seem so self-supporting if it can’t actually support itself. Yeah, it would have a better chance if it went more places. But it doesn’t, and we could play the “what if” game all day and not get anywhere.
Brosephus
June 24th, 2011
8:39 am
In case you hadn’t noticed, obeying the law is now becoming optional. Just look at how our immigration laws are being enforced if there is any doubt.
Underfund enforcement, and then declare enforcement a failure. The 21st Century Scorched Earth technique executed to perfection.
ty webb
June 24th, 2011
8:40 am
“You mean naggers, don’t you?”
“I think he’s talking about black people.”
okay, now we just need a “fox news” mention and our quota will be met by 8:45 AM…Not to shabby. These Shots are going down like water, but if we keep this up, I’ll be comatose by 9:15.
Adam
June 24th, 2011
8:41 am
Funny, “we don’t want no undesirables!” At least the constituents are honest. I would say let them live in their perceived island, but I think, perhaps this time, such sentiments should be ignored. If you fear change, TOUGH.
(ir)Rational
June 24th, 2011
8:42 am
Call it like it is – Like I said, I’ve written papers on it. I understand the concept, but don’t see it working here. 20 million per mile doesn’t come anywhere near the actual cost. Especially if we rely on the government to build it. How much is it going to cost to buy the land (admittedly this is a problem with any rail project) to get it through North Atlanta? How much is it going to cost to bridge the Hooch? How much is it going to cost to grease the palms of the politicians that think they know better and get them to accept the idea? How much for them to “study” it?
It is a great CONCEPT, but it isn’t something I see happening here anytime in the future. Especially considering it isn’t on anyone’s wish list for the tax.
USinUK
June 24th, 2011
8:42 am
ty – we could always talk about this instead
http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/publicity-campaign-led-to-mobsters-arrest-fbi-says/2011/06/23/AGGH7mhH_story.html?hpid=z2
1811/1801 - 0311/0317
June 24th, 2011
8:44 am
Headline: “(Hillary)” Clinton asks Congress: Whose side are you on?”
Well. well, well Missy Clinton, who side were you and Bill on back in the late 60’s when American lives in Viet Nam were on the line?
The hypocrisy is putrid.
Adam
June 24th, 2011
8:46 am
Alright, to you guys who keep talking about how public transport has to turn a profit or not be subsidized, I have two questions:
1) Do you know of ANY city or municipality doing it this way?
2) What exactly is it about PUBLIC that you don’t understand?
Finn McCool
June 24th, 2011
8:46 am
If they put tolls on 285 – where the truckers usually are – we would get the biggest destroyers of pavement to help pay for the repairs. That would shift some of the tax burden off consumers and onto companies which avoid paying for repairs through tax breaks.
Brosephus
June 24th, 2011
8:46 am
(ir)Rational
I’m merely asking what the definition of “Self-Supporting” means? If it means using it’s own fundraising methods without relying on the state, then MARTA is self-supporting. It might not be running in the black, but it doesn’t get a penny from the state. Seeing that it is a public system and not privately run, there will be government money involved in it’s operation. If one does not shop in Fulton or DeKalb or ride MARTA, you do not put a penny towards it’s operation.
If it were my decision, I would focus the next 10 years on evolving and expanding the rail system to better serve the metro area. The only way to increase ridership is to provide access and destinations. Think about how many visitors staying downtown would shop at the Mall of GA, spend a day at Stone Mtn, or spend a day at Six Flags if they could just hop a train to get there.
Every time I’ve traveled to Seattle, for instance, I stay right at the airport. However, I can take the light rail right into downtown and visit Pike Market, the Space Needle, and all the other tourist traps
that are there. You can’t do that in Atlanta, and that’s something we definitely need to boost spending in the region. Millions of people come here every year for conventions. Think of how many more millions could be spent if they had a way to get around and about.
ty webb
June 24th, 2011
8:47 am
UsinUk,
yeah that’s a pretty interesting story. I hear that Nicholson’s character in “the departed” was based on that guy.
Doggone/GA
June 24th, 2011
8:47 am
“That would shift some of the tax burden off consumers and onto companies which avoid paying for repairs through tax breaks.”
Consumers would still be paying for it – by purchasing goods shipped by those trucks
andygrdzki
June 24th, 2011
8:48 am
USinUK…. I will be with the troops…. As a civilian I can’t carry a weapon,,, so I ask the boys to take care of this old fart………
Adam
June 24th, 2011
8:48 am
Quagmire: A 1 cent tax increase is the easiest to introduce. It’s so small, who can’t afford an extra penny? Then the next one, and the next one… Reminds me of death by a thousand cuts.
The problem with your argument? Not everything can be implemented through such a small tax.
DagnyT
June 24th, 2011
8:48 am
The list of projects suffers from a lack of vision and cohesiveness. It’s filled with fix traffic lights here and make that wider, add sidewalks here and “corridor” improvements. It’s just ramblings that look like my weekend to-do list. I am opposed to a SPLOST because I don’t trust them to end it or spend the money where they say they will, see Georgia 400 for example. That being said, I could be sold a bold, visionary, unified metro wide transit solution that extended to Macon, Carrollton, Chattanooga etc. That’s not what we have here. We have a group of piddly projects and things that should already be part of the regular budget. If you’re going to sell me on this, it needs to be something that will make all the other metro areas across the country take notice; A vision taxpayers can buy into to put us on the right track for the future. I am not signing up for a SPLOST so we can put a band-aid on a leaking bucket.
Gordon
June 24th, 2011
8:49 am
I love how Jay implies that people who don’t want mass transit in their area aren’t as “evolved” as those who do. Maybe being left behind is exactly what some people want.
USinUK
June 24th, 2011
8:49 am
andy – may the wind be at your back! stay safe
USinUK
June 24th, 2011
8:51 am
ty – I read the same thing this morning!
my question is: how many names has he been keeping up his sleeve for this eventuality??!!
Peadawg
June 24th, 2011
8:51 am
“Well. well, well Missy Clinton, who side were you and Bill on back in the late 60’s when American lives in Viet Nam were on the line?
The hypocrisy is putrid.”
I would ask her what side was she on when America invaded Iraq.
MountainMan
June 24th, 2011
8:52 am
Whacks,
Having the lane HOV-3 will leave plenty of room for paying customers. There is a HOV-3 lane on I-95 south of the Beltway in DC. I was stuck in bumper to bumper traffic for twenty miles (with my wife) while the HOV-3 lane had a car come by about every 30 seconds. Not many cars with 3 people in rush hour traffic.
Adam
June 24th, 2011
8:55 am
Brosephus: Seattle is one of my favorite public transport cities too
AmVet
June 24th, 2011
8:55 am
Notwithstanding the unfounded excuses, for the life of me, I cannot figure out how even the most dead red, die-hard con apologists have so little integrity that they continue to try and absolve their heroes of these never-ending debacles…
http://blogs.ajc.com/mike-luckovich/?cxntlid=sldr
Adam
June 24th, 2011
8:55 am
Gordon: Maybe being left behind is exactly what some people want.
Tough.
(ir)Rational
June 24th, 2011
8:55 am
Brosephus – MARTA isn’t using “it’s own fundraising methods” by having Fulton and Dekalb Counties tax people. That is still using the police power of the government to force me to subsidize it. Granted, I’m not forced to ride or shop in either of the two counties, so I can choose not to subsidize it, but they are still using the government to force people that wouldn’t otherwise pay for it to pay for it. And yeah, it is a public system, but the public doesn’t seem to be doing a great job of running it, so maybe they should consider going to something else.
I do agree with your premise though, that it would have a better chance if it went more places. I think it needs to be expanded, and all of the local transit systems in Atlanta (GRTA, CCT, Gwinnett, MARTA and any other ones) need to be consolidated under one name, share funding and share riders more efficiently.
People continually ask “what other transit system is self-supporting?” Why does another one have to be for us to try and get ours to be? Can we not be the first in something? Also, New York was at one point until 10 or so years ago if I’m remembering what I’ve read correctly.
USinUK
June 24th, 2011
8:55 am
well, all I can say is thank GAWD that, when their country asked, Republicans always answer the call:
* Dennis Hastert: did not serve.
* Tom Delay: did not serve.
* Roy Blunt: did not serve.
* Bill Frist: did not serve.
* Mitch McConnell: did not serve.
* Rick Santorum: did not serve.
* Trent Lott: did not serve.
* Dick Cheney: did not serve. Several deferments, the last by marriage.
* John Ashcroft: did not serve. Seven deferments to teach business.
* Jeb Bush: did not serve.
* Paul Wolfowitz: did not serve.
* Newt Gingrich: did not serve.
* Ronald Reagan: due to poor eyesight, served in a non-combat role making movies.
* Jack Kemp: did not serve. Knee, although continued in NFL for 8 years.
* George Pataki: did not serve.
* Rudy Giuliani: did not serve.
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20060614161225AA7GCXd
Adam
June 24th, 2011
8:57 am
but they are still using the government to force people that wouldn’t otherwise pay for it to pay for it.
WHIIIIIIIIINE
(ir)Rational
June 24th, 2011
8:57 am
Dagny – well put. I would think you would be hands down for any type of rail though.
Whacks Eloquent
June 24th, 2011
8:58 am
MountainMan,
I understand how it will work, and that traffic flow should be about the same as now, maybe slightly better. I was asking Jay if he thought it was fair. How about people who had been responsible by having a 2nd person in the car with them? Sometimes a “third wheel” can be difficult to find and work around. Personally, I usually ride the bus, and it won’t make a hill of beans difference to me.
getalife
June 24th, 2011
8:58 am
Excellent toon from Mike.
If they win, the economy will not be in the toilet, they want a default to end Medicare and SS.
Of course, then you will have the riots.
Punchgo
June 24th, 2011
9:00 am
Think about it.
Politicians are lawyers who can write any law and abolish any toll they want to. 400 is a cash cow and they won’t get rid of it. Why do we have politicians anymore when we the people have the opportunity to vote on everything online now if we put a new system in place. Technology is here along with remote working. The road system is not the answer. In another 50 years which I won’t live to see by the way there will be a revolt against the politicinas like there was against King George. We just have too many King Georges locally now. We could do away with alot of politicans with a law passed stating no new laws for the next 10-20 years. Politicians are not needed anymore except to go and make new laws for their benefits and to keep their careers going. We are overpaying locally and nationally for nothing. We need people with ideas and not self serving politicians. There should be a new law passed requirng lawyers to take a common sense test on how to manage within a reduced budget and create jobs from it. Instead we have the opposite of lawyers thinking they have card blanche by raising taxes to solve problems they have created over the years whether Republican, Democrat, or the new Tea Party which is also motivated to keep their jobs. A sad state we the people have allowed to happen to ourselves.
(ir)Rational
June 24th, 2011
9:00 am
Adam, that isn’t whining, that is simply stating the facts. You have the mental capacity to understand the difference right?
USinUK
June 24th, 2011
9:01 am
getalife – riots in the US?
can’t see it happening – not on the scale of what’s going on in Spain and Greece – particularly over Medicare and SS
Doggone/GA
June 24th, 2011
9:02 am
“I understand how it will work, and that traffic flow should be about the same as now, maybe slightly better”
I was against the HOV lanes, and I’m against any such proposal. I think what Atlanta needs is EXPRESS lanes, with very limiited on/off ramps. Get those people who are just trying to get through Atlanta and out the other side on their way.
Whacks Eloquent
June 24th, 2011
9:02 am
Finn,
I find myself surprisingly in agreement with you on the idea of truck-only toll lanes on 285…
ty webb
June 24th, 2011
9:02 am
UsinUk,
re: your 8:55) I think Amvet may need a cigarette after reading it…you are such a temptress…you should be ashamed. j/k
(ir)Rational
June 24th, 2011
9:03 am
Punchgo – what you said reminds me of the quote from The Patriot: “Why should I trade one tyrant 3,000 miles away for 3,000 tyrants one mile away?” We have our 3,000 tyrants, and they need to be traded in.
getalife
June 24th, 2011
9:06 am
“particularly over Medicare and SS”
A default ends more programs than just Medicare and SS.
States can leave and there will be a new Constitution.
Organized crime explodes like in Russia.
Lots more corruption.
Dunwoodian
June 24th, 2011
9:07 am
The metro region needs to pass this sales tax if it wants to stay competitive with other cities going forward. We have little collective vision due to the Boss Hogg politics of the far to numerous counties in the region. The State has little desire to build roads in Atlanta because of the crazy funding allotment to the rural areas.
I’d happily vote for the sales tax hike, if it can be assured it stays in the Metro Area!
AmVet
June 24th, 2011
9:07 am
ex-pat, ironic huh? (I guess ty thinks I’m intentionally ignorant on this topic.)
The “leadership” of the Permanent War Party has for a long time, been disgraceful in their avoidance of military service to the nation. Particularly in light of their incessant chest pounding and getting a whole bunch of other people’s kids heads shot off.
But they sure do know how to Swiftboat combat veterans they disagree with.
Speaking of which, we have one of their most despicable cretins right here in Georgia – Saxby Chambliss.
A disgraceful lot…
poison pen
June 24th, 2011
9:08 am
1811/1801 – 0311/0317
Headline: “(Hillary)” Clinton asks Congress: Whose side are you on?”
We know whose side she is on, Several months ago she gave $150,000,000.00 to TERRORISTS.
shawny
June 24th, 2011
9:08 am
Tolls are a sham. And this HOT lane conversion in Gwinnett is nothing but a revenue generation tool that WILL NOT reduce the number of cars on the road.
This is an example of once a govt gets their hands on a source of money, they will not release it. It becomes a dependancy and they build their plans around the new source.
It works the same way for liberal social programs like social security. If it never existed, people today would make arrangements to ensure that they have money set aside for their retirements. People today have grossly underfunded retirements because they know that it will be there for them. The intent of the program was good, particularly given the great depression when it came to be, but it became a dependancy like the govt tolls, etc.
Think about this when you vote to tax yourself (SPLOST). While the govt should be able to budget for things that we want and need, they ‘trick’ you into believing that they don’t have enough money and now you volunteer to give them more. For crying out loud, they should be able to find a way to budget for all the things SPLOSTs do without the added revenue.
USinUK
June 24th, 2011
9:09 am
ty – 9:02 – it’s my womanly wiles … I try to keep them under control, but it’s Friday, what can I say …
getalife
June 24th, 2011
9:10 am
“We know whose side she is on, Several months ago she gave $150,000,000.00 to TERRORISTS.”
You are on daffy’s side with the rest of the cons.
She called you out.
Admit it.
Realtalk
June 24th, 2011
9:10 am
For the First Time I agree with Jay…. Something must be wrong. I find our Local Government disgracefull to go back on their promise to end these tolls. Our Traffic and roads are terrible. All GOV officials will be held repsonsible for their lies and waste here in GA.
TEA
Brosephus
June 24th, 2011
9:10 am
(ir)Rational
I think the main reason that MARTA has no chance of being “self-supporting” is because it isn’t large enough to be self-supporting. By large enough, I mean that it doesn’t provide an alternate means to most of the places where people want to travel. The rail lines alone should extend at least 20 miles outside of 285 in all directions to even make an attempt at getting people to ditch their cars in favor of riding the rails. Why does the rail line not go out to AMS in Hampton or Road Atlanta? Atlanta lost it’s second NASCAR date to Fontana, CA (I think). That track has a metro rail station onsite to move people out and back from the track.
It would have been more cost effective to be proactive and build it long ago, but when has government of any partisan flavor ever been proactive? The people have to push for it, because there’s no lobby effort to do so. Road builders have a very strong lobby here, so any attempt at building an effective transit systems has to have huge support by the people who will actually ride it.
Adam
That’s my favorite too. I love it how the buses and trains both use the same underground tunnels to avoid traffic.
JohnnyReb
June 24th, 2011
9:11 am
stands @ 7:48. Get off your arrogant attitude. There are people with legitimate differing opinions than your own. Yes mass transit is subsidized, and that’s the problem. All those people who don’t use it are paying for it. If you think that’s fair, then pay more than your share of taxes. The IRS and State will accept your contribution.
Uncle Jed
June 24th, 2011
9:11 am
With all due respect to our facilitator; the toll topic is a non-starter. Did any conscious, sober person actually think the toll would end? It is a tax for crying out loud, they never go away.
BTW- I didn’t grasp what the last paragraph had to do with the GA400 toll.
(ir)Rational
June 24th, 2011
9:12 am
shawny – Thanks for the great laugh. Government should learn to budget with what they already have. HAHAHAHAHA! That’s okay for the little guys, but not for the government. Heck, I wouldn’t budget either if I could legally take a gun and force everyone to give me a little of what they have. Wouldn’t that be a paradox, a liberal with a gun. Man, today is getting off to an awesome start!
poison pen
June 24th, 2011
9:12 am
Getalife, you need to …well… Get a life.
getalife
June 24th, 2011
9:12 am
Tolls are a tax increase.
cons are for tax increases.
getalife
June 24th, 2011
9:13 am
pp,
Just admit it.
We already know it is because we have a Dem President.
Peadawg
June 24th, 2011
9:14 am
“Tolls are a tax increase.”
Then why is Jay complaining? He should be all for it.
Soothsayer
June 24th, 2011
9:15 am
“Why does the rail line not go out to AMS in Hampton or Road Atlanta?”
Hmmm . . . can’t imagine for the life of me! Couldn’t have anything to with Those People could it?
ty webb
June 24th, 2011
9:15 am
“I guess ty thinks I’m intentionally ignorant on this topic.”
no, Amvet, I would never think that. Just thought you’d like that one…a lot.
getalife
June 24th, 2011
9:16 am
Pea,
Because they continue to lie about ending it.
You cons can’t figure that out?
poison pen
June 24th, 2011
9:17 am
Bro,
Amtrack is a large rail system and it’s still losing millions every year. just sayin.