Obama plays it safe with Afghan withdrawal schedule
In his speech this evening, President Obama is expected to announce the withdrawal of 10,000 American troops from Afghanistan by the end of the year, a step that would still leave almost 90,000 U.S. military personnel in that country.
And while that pace of withdrawal is more rapid than many military leaders would prefer, it is also much slower than public opinion demands. According to a new Pew poll, 56 percent of Americans now want our troops out of Afghanistan as soon as possible, up sharply from 40 percent just a year ago.
That rapid change of heart can be attributed to a range of factors. We’ve been in Afghanistan for almost 10 years now, with relatively little to show for it except for the death of Osama bin Laden. And with bin Laden now removed from the scene, the official rationale for staying seems much less convincing. In the Pew poll, for example, only 38 percent of Americans believed it likely that we would be able to leave behind a stable Afghan government, and personally, the optimism of that 38 percent is hard to explain.
In fact, growing disgust at the Afghan government that our soldiers are fighting to protect and in our “allies” in Pakistan has also undercut public support, as does the realization that taxpayers are spending $300 million a day on military operations, economic aid and other costs related to Afghanistan.
Considering all that, a drawdown of just 10,000 troops by the end of the year is probably the best that the Pentagon could realistically hope to see. It is also certain to disappoint those in Congress who want a far more ambitious withdrawal schedule.
– Jay Bookman
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600 comments Add your comment
1811/1801 - 0311/0317
June 22nd, 2011
3:10 pm
Does anyone know if there is a contest yet to design the Iraq/Afghnaistan Wall for the D.C. mall?
Maybe the Commander in Chiffon will announce it tonight ?
RedEye
June 22nd, 2011
3:10 pm
Only 3 in 10 will vote for Obama in next election.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=aI6mljp12T3k
Show Low Here We Come
June 22nd, 2011
3:11 pm
Get. Out. Now.
Recon (2nd.and 3rd.)
June 22nd, 2011
3:15 pm
It’s time for the Afghan army to step up we can’t stay there forever. I think with the corrupt government and Pakistan as unreliable our chances for a sustainable victory in that country is unattainable.
Adam
June 22nd, 2011
3:17 pm
A draw down of 10,000 troops still leaves WAY more troops than were there at any point that Bush was in office.
Kamchak
June 22nd, 2011
3:18 pm
Bring ‘em all home, ASAP.
Adam
June 22nd, 2011
3:20 pm
RedEye: It’s only 3 in 10 say they are certain they will vote for him. It’s beyond that you should look at. For example only 36% said they definitely won’t vote for him. That leaves 33% that have not *definitely* made up their minds.
Adam
June 22nd, 2011
3:21 pm
RedEye: Also, THIS: Sixty percent said that any Republican candidate will need to move so far to the right on fiscal and social issues to win their party’s nomination that it will be very hard to back the nominee.
MORE THAN DOUBLE have skepticism about backing an unnamed GOP candidate.
Dave R.
June 22nd, 2011
3:21 pm
“Obama plays it safe with Afghan withdrawal schedule”
Otherwise known as “Leading from behind”.
TM
June 22nd, 2011
3:22 pm
I don’t think this draw down will bring the troops to the level before the president increased the level last year. Wasn’t that a 30k increase.
CJ
June 22nd, 2011
3:23 pm
I’m honestly torn on this one. I don’t quibble with any arguments for pulling out the troops.
My question is, if we pull out the troops, are we significantly less secure? If so, what are our alternatives, if any. I haven’t heard anybody ask or address these questions with any detail or nuance.
Granny Godzilla
June 22nd, 2011
3:25 pm
I disagree with our President and the Pentagon on this…I think they are wrong.
Bring larger numbers home on a faster timetable.
WOODSTOCK MIKE
June 22nd, 2011
3:27 pm
Another example of broken promises by this administration…
1811/1801 - 0311/0317
June 22nd, 2011
3:27 pm
The Commander in Chiffon will be making a political decision tonight ……… not a military one.
A good soldiers will die unecessarily because of it.
getalife
June 22nd, 2011
3:29 pm
The American people want out because they are cutting and said we are broke.
He already set the date and now will say how many are coming home.
Peace and prosperity after w’s lost decade.
Thanks cons.
Bosch
June 22nd, 2011
3:29 pm
From what I’ve heard today, his generals weren’t all keen on drastic withdrawals. I heard he was bringing 30,000 home, but it looks like it’s shrunk now.
But I too disagree with Obama on this, but then again, I’m not military expert and neither is he. He’s relying on his advisors, which, to me, demonstrates good leadership.
AmVet
June 22nd, 2011
3:31 pm
Rock on to all those many, many responsible men and women, including the Commander in Chief, for killing the most infamous murderer of our age!
I’m still on a high from that one!
With that said, it is way past time to get out of the dual quagmires.
Trust me, Lockheed Martin, Boeing, Haliburton, General Dynamics, Raytheon and all the rest, will still find a way to get Uncle Sam (you and me) to bankroll them…
Bosch
June 22nd, 2011
3:31 pm
Scout,
That’s ridiculous, if this were a strictly political decision, he’d be bringing them all home immediately as a majority of the population wants them home. This IS a military move. Are you sure you were a Marine, because hell, I don’t know anything about the military, but can see that one.
Finn McCool
June 22nd, 2011
3:32 pm
Naw, let’s keep throwing good money after bad.
i’m sure one day all the Afghan people will wake up and just love America and all it stands for!
Granny Godzilla
June 22nd, 2011
3:32 pm
Leading from behind.
If you understand what it means it’s quite an elegant compliment.
Like Ghandi, Dr. King, Mother Theresa, Sam Walton…
Servant Leadership: The Answer to Leading From Behind
“Whether you are the CEO of a Wall Street darling, managing a 3rd generation main street business or reforming social injustices, one thing is certain – we all feel behind today. From corporate scandals to our economic crisis, poor leadership has created obstacles for us all. Therefore, how we get out of this mess will take a different type of leadership. We need leaders that inspire us. Leaders motivated by something greater than themselves. Leaders focused on sustainable success over hollow, short-term gains. What we need is Servant Leadership. With servant leaders leveraging technology and a focus on the right results, yes we can, lead from behind.”
Peadawg
June 22nd, 2011
3:33 pm
“that would still leave almost 90,000 U.S. military personnel in that country.”
That’s 90,000 too man.
stands for decibels
June 22nd, 2011
3:33 pm
taxpayers are spending $300 million a day on military operations, economic aid and other costs related to Afghanistan.
Just to put this in a little bit of perspective: Afghanistan’s GDP for 2009 was $14.5 billion. In 2001 it had been $2.5 billion.
For all that massive financial infusion we’ve got… what to show for it, again?
Granny Godzilla
June 22nd, 2011
3:33 pm
WOODSTOCK MIKE
June 22nd, 2011
3:27 pm
Another example of broken promises by this administration…
Oh? How?
Peadawg
June 22nd, 2011
3:33 pm
many*
Bosch
June 22nd, 2011
3:34 pm
And while that pace of withdrawal is more rapid than many military leaders would prefer, it is also much slower than public opinion demands.
Again, it shows that Obama does not lead by opinion polls, he leads by good advice from his military advisors.
WOODSTOCK MIKE
June 22nd, 2011
3:36 pm
Hilarious to see the libs give Obama the benefit of the doubt on this one…
“I’m not military expert and neither is he. He’s relying on his advisors, which, to me, demonstrates good leadership.”
Funny how the comment above aplies to Obama but not Bush, every intelligence agency in the world said Iraq had WMD but the libs blame one single man, George Bush.
Can’t have it both ways guys.
WOODSTOCK MIKE
June 22nd, 2011
3:37 pm
“Again, it shows that Obama does not lead by opinion polls, he leads by good advice from his military advisors.”
Once again!! What about the advice given to George Bush, does your comment above not apply?
AmVet
June 22nd, 2011
3:37 pm
And isn’t it funny how the War Always gang got instantly war weary last January?
Truly remarkable. (And duplicitous.)
But does anyone honestly not believe that this stunning epiphany will last only as long as a non-Republican is in the White house?
Then the chickenhawks will again be screaming for another botched invasion and occupation.
And once again the sheep will fall for the Cheneyesque claptrap…
Recon (2nd.and 3rd.)
June 22nd, 2011
3:39 pm
CJ, From the reports I’ve read Petreus and the field commanders want two more fighting seasons as offensive operations pretty much shut down during the Afghan winter. A draw down of only 10,000 probably won’t change strategy, however, a greater reduction would probably require a change in strategy. I frankly don’t think our national security would be in any greater danger if we completely pulled out. We would still have the military means to prevent the Taliban from rebuilding the terrorist support and training centers they had in Afghanistan prior to 9-11. Actually Pakistan is now the greatest threat in terms of providing recruiting and training facilities along with support to jihadists.
Granny Godzilla
June 22nd, 2011
3:39 pm
WOODSTOCK MIKE
June 22nd, 2011
3:27 pm
Another example of broken promises by this administration…
Oh? How?
JohnnyReb
June 22nd, 2011
3:40 pm
… only 38 percent of Americans believed it likely that we would be able to leave behind a stable Afghan government…
Herding cats would be more successful.
@@
June 22nd, 2011
3:40 pm
Has he consulted the Taliban?
RedEye
June 22nd, 2011
3:40 pm
Americans Worse Now Than When Obama Inaugurated by 44%-34% Margin in Poll
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-06-22/americans-worse-now-than-when-obama-inaugurated-by-44-34-margin-in-poll.html
ty webb
June 22nd, 2011
3:41 pm
So far we’ve had “haliburton”, then “cheneyesque”, seems someone is shooting for the uninformed’s holy trinity…only one more now, come on, “you can do it!”
Thulsa Doom
June 22nd, 2011
3:41 pm
I will agree with the potus on this one. Time to leave for 5 reasons.
1-To my knowledge no rebel army operating freely from another country has ever been defeated- they can just outwait us.
2-And I don’t think Afgh was ever really an exporter of terrorism. Yeah, UBL fled and hid there but I just never saw them as being an exporter of terrorism like say Iran. And its been well documented that many of them, even amongst the Taliban- aren’t exactly crazy about the Arab Wahabbis in their country. They are just happy to go back to living as backwards ass woman abusing savages doing what they do in their own little sheety corner of the world.
3- If the Afgh army can’t stand up now and fight on their own then they never will
4- To hell with putting up with these sorry, corrupt as hell Afghan leaders and this sinkhole of money not to mention lives.
5- If we withdraw and the Taliban comes back and or does allow terrorists to incubate there then we just lob cruise missiles at their tribal leaders when they tick us off. They’ll get the message- that it aint worth their time to harbor terrorists.
Bosch
June 22nd, 2011
3:42 pm
“but the libs blame one single man, George Bush”
Yeap, and still do for that clusterf*ck. You better be damn sure about something before invading a country at that magnitude. They knew they were lies. We all now know the truth.
Obama has been a much better CIC than his predecessor. Much more calculating, much more efficient. He listens to his advisors — ones that know what they are talking about instead of telling what they think the CIC wants to hear. What an abysmal mistake he was.
Adam
June 22nd, 2011
3:43 pm
Granny @ 3:32, LOVE IT
Thulsa Doom
June 22nd, 2011
3:43 pm
On a slightly different topic anyone on here ever read “The Kite Runner” by Khalid Hossein? Fantastic book and a must read. Couldn’t put it down once I started.
getalife
June 22nd, 2011
3:43 pm
The taliban will be their cons.
retired early
June 22nd, 2011
3:44 pm
Recently, an outpost manned by both US and Afgan troops was attacked by Taliban fighters. The post commander reported that the Afgan “soldiers” “broke ranks and ran” leaving the American soldiers in a desperate fire fight for their lives.
When I heard that….it was the last straw. Some “progress” training these cowards.
WHENEVER we leave….the Taliban will “rout” these cowards and take back control of the country.
GET—OUT—-NOW !!!!!
Beavis
June 22nd, 2011
3:45 pm
Bring ALL of our troops home and put them on our borders where they belong. Please tell me why we can afford to put 38,000 troops on the North/South Korean border, for 60 years, but only 2,000 on our southern border.
Brosephus
June 22nd, 2011
3:45 pm
I don’t think we should have had boots on the ground in the first place. When the decision was made to put boots there, there should have been a swath of hell cut through that country that would have made William T Sherman wince. We’ve built power plants and schools there that Afghanistan can’t even afford to keep running when we leave. We’ve spent much more money there on infrastructure than we’ve probably spent in the US at the same time, but all we hear about is the “stimulus.” It’s amazing that “He who yells loudest” controls the conversation, but the yelling isn’t about the right thing.
Rumsfeld was right when he said you go to war with the army you have, or whatever it was he said. He just executed the wrong F’N plan. We could have used satellites and drones to spot every last terrorist camp without detection. Tomahawks and B-52’s could have then been used to wipe them off the face of the earth, all without a single boot on Afghani soil.
Too damned bad we had the right military but the wrong jackass making the plan….
AmVet
June 22nd, 2011
3:45 pm
ty, do your friends know that you obsess about me?
http://tinyurl.com/apnk64
Bosch
June 22nd, 2011
3:45 pm
Doom,
Yes, that was an excellent book and not sure how much is an accurate portrayal of the Taliban, but that was one that kept me up at night, and many nights afterwards when I finished it.
Adam
June 22nd, 2011
3:46 pm
RedEye: OH CRAP! Guess I better jump ship and blindly vote for anyone but Obama!
Granny Godzilla
June 22nd, 2011
3:47 pm
Thulsa
Gotta’ agree about the Kite Runner – a great read.
Bosch
June 22nd, 2011
3:48 pm
AmVet,
I’ve always respected you, so, I really do not want to know how you found that website.
Recon (2nd.and 3rd.)
June 22nd, 2011
3:49 pm
Bosch,
Obama said that we can’t afford to lose in Afghanistan and that it was the war to fight. Of course that was during his campaign during his presidency he hasn’t had much to say about it while good troops have died. You sure give him a pass. This speech tonight is all about politics.
ty webb
June 22nd, 2011
3:50 pm
Amvet,
yeah, all both of them. Thanks for that link, though it will be hard to explain to the Mrs. if she ever looks at my internet history.
retired early
June 22nd, 2011
3:50 pm
Thulsa Doom
Exactly, Pull out, then watch. We see terrorist camps being built…Cruise missiles can take care of the problem. No more American lives lost in vain, and no more $$ down the drain…except for the cost of a few missiles.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
June 22nd, 2011
3:50 pm
every intelligence agency in the world said Iraq had WMD Well not really but Cheney did not want to hear anything but what he claimed was true. In fact our own intelligence disagreed with the WMD claim.
But I do have to agree with Scout, good men did die because of his poor decisions. Good men dies because of Obama’s decisions too, hopefully the decisions and the lives lost have served some good.
the original and still the best John Galt
June 22nd, 2011
3:52 pm
The Messiah Barack The Chosen One, the Magnificent and All-Knowing, has to pull troops out of Afghanistan to have enough to send into Libya.
WOODSTOCK MIKE
June 22nd, 2011
3:52 pm
@Granny
If you really don’t think that Obama has campaigned on bringing the troops home from the middle east I’m not sure what to think…
That’s just amazing if you are saying he didn’t campaign on bringing the troops home. And if you give the foolish response of “he meant home from Iraq” which still isn’t done, that’s sad, because it means you are okay with him moving troops from Iraq to Afghanistan and my question to you is why would that be okay??
deegee
June 22nd, 2011
3:52 pm
Don’t the Chinese need us there to make it safer for them to extract copper from the mines they invested in?
getalife
June 22nd, 2011
3:52 pm
Iraq was a horrible mistake and everybody knows it.
He is cleaning up w’s mess again.
Lost decade of growth.
Thanks cons.
Logical Dude
June 22nd, 2011
3:52 pm
Woodstock Mike: What about the advice given to George Bush, does your comment above not apply?
How about the advice given to George Bush’s generals? “If anyone else talks about exit strategy, they will be fired”.
If George Bush listened to his generals, perhaps we would be in a much better situation today, and actually HAVE an exit strategy.
Bosch
June 22nd, 2011
3:52 pm
Au Contraire Del, I’m not giving him a pass, which is why I was against sending troops there to begin with. But you know what? He didn’t call me and ask, instead he listened to his advisors who know a little more about these things than I do. That’s what good leaders do.
And again, if this WERE about politics, he’d be announcing a complete or near complete withdrawal. He’s doing something totally unpopular, which again, demonstrates his abilities to make the hard decisions. Doing what is easy is not always the same as doing something right. Politicians do the former, Obama is doing the latter. And sometimes it makes me mad.
godless heathen
June 22nd, 2011
3:53 pm
When has a military leader not wanted more troops? The best way to advance in the military is to command a combat unit. Hard to do if there is no combat.
And would someone please explain what the 100,000 troups in Afghanistan had to do with the capture of OBL in Pakistan.
RedEye
June 22nd, 2011
3:53 pm
“In the annual Long-Term Budget Outlook, the legislature’s budget scorekeepers said that the ratio of debt to GDP this year will be 69 percent, 7 percentage points higher than last year. In 2021, the CBO predicts debt will reach 76 percent of GDP, but under a more dire—and more likely—scenario, the public debt will be 101 percent of GDP 10 years from now, well into the economic danger zone of 90 percent or more.”
http://www.nationaljournal.com/budget/cbo-releases-daunting-long-term-outlook-20110622
Adam
June 22nd, 2011
3:53 pm
Recon: Obama said that we can’t afford to lose in Afghanistan and that it was the war to fight.
Why? Because of bin Laden and the Taliban. We cut off the head. Actually we cut off the many heads. The idea that they can simply come back from that in any short time frame is ridiculous.
Bosch
June 22nd, 2011
3:53 pm
“perhaps we would be in a much better situation today, and actually HAVE an exit strategy”
Because there was never intended to be an exit strategy, that was Bush’s energy policy.
Tom Middleton
June 22nd, 2011
3:53 pm
When the left comes up with a reasonable security strategy, I mean, besides their head-in-the-sand, don’t-make-me-look one, I’ll start taking it seriously again, but not until.
Security will be an issue for some time to come, for we’re up against real enemies, and we can’t be caught day dreaming again like we did on 9/11.
I hate war for sure, but I also hate watching Americans die from a lack of being prepared and willingness to fight those determined to destroy us.
Maybe the left will do a little soul searching before forcing us to cut-and-run in operations like Afghanistan, for if we’re not going to do that, then what are we going to do, I mean, besides throw flowers?
WOODSTOCK MIKE
June 22nd, 2011
3:54 pm
@Keep up the Good Fight
Joe Biden says that the nuclear weapons inspectors told US intelligence agencies that Iraq had WMD. Your thoughts?
Bosch
June 22nd, 2011
3:54 pm
And please excruse my horrible Engrish at 3:53.
Joe Mama
June 22nd, 2011
3:54 pm
Mike — “Funny how the comment above aplies to Obama but not Bush, every intelligence agency in the world said Iraq had WMD but the libs blame one single man, George Bush.”
“The Decider” is the one who sent us into Iraq with guns blazing, not the intelligence agencies. It’s one thing to *think* there were WMD there; it’s quite a different thing to say ‘we KNOW it’s there’ and predicate an invasion on it.
“Can’t have it both ways guys.”
Man up and own the decision, Mike. President Bush made the invasion call on his own, and the reasons he stated when we went in turned out to be flat wrong.
Thulsa Doom
June 22nd, 2011
3:55 pm
Granny Godzilla and Bosch,
Once in a millenium the cons and the libs will agree on something. And I guess in this case it was that the Kite Runner was one helluva read.
Brocephus,
For the most part I can’t disagree with anything you said at 3:45.
Adam
June 22nd, 2011
3:55 pm
He’s doing something totally unpopular, which again, demonstrates his abilities to make the hard decisions.
Leadership.
poison pen
June 22nd, 2011
3:55 pm
“Too damned bad we had the right military but the wrong jackass making the plan….”
Bro, please make that Jackasses, plural, because they are still making the wrong decisions.
I say bring them home now and put the money to better use and save our troopers lives.
getalife
June 22nd, 2011
3:55 pm
“Don’t the Chinese need us there to make it safer for them to extract copper from the mines they invested in?”
Good question but they have troops or can hire private contractors.
Somebody should ask Huntsman about it.
Wake Up Georgia!
June 22nd, 2011
3:56 pm
President Obama is tough as nails and smart as a whip. He did what he had to do and said he would do in Afghanistan. Instead of taking the eye off the ball like Bush did, he went after the folks that caused 911. Those folks (the A.Q. boys) are basically whipped in Afghanistan. The Taliban is a political group, still mean as the devil, but home grown. Obama also said he would go into Pakistan and he did what he said he would do there too. He got the big guy and a whole lot more. It is nice to have a president who thinks, before he pulls the trigger (and he does pull the trigger!).
Adam
June 22nd, 2011
3:57 pm
Maybe the left will do a little soul searching before forcing us to cut-and-run in operations like Afghanistan
Take it up also with the 60% of the GOP congress that ALSO supports getting out.
WOODSTOCK MIKE
June 22nd, 2011
3:57 pm
@Joe Mama
You are incorrect sir, George Bush went through Congress to authorize the war in Iraq.
poison pen
June 22nd, 2011
3:58 pm
“Man up and own the decision, Mike. President Bush made the invasion call on his own, and the reasons he stated when we went in turned out to be flat wrong.”
Joe, true, but Most of Congress believed the data also and voted that way.
Bosch
June 22nd, 2011
3:58 pm
Well Doom, by the definition we always see of what a liberal is, set forth by the cons here, I’m not a liberal, so gee.
Adam
June 22nd, 2011
3:58 pm
WOODSTOCK MIKE: Joe Biden says that the nuclear weapons inspectors told US intelligence agencies that Iraq had WMD. Your thoughts?
Yeah, I have a thought. Why, then, did we have to go AROUND the UN to go in there?
Bosch
June 22nd, 2011
3:58 pm
“but Most of Congress believed the data also and voted that way”
And they were flat wrong too. Every. single. one.
poison pen
June 22nd, 2011
3:59 pm
Obama must be miffed now that Reid supports Huntsman.
josef
June 22nd, 2011
3:59 pm
Hard to say on this one…a sort of damned if you do, damned if you don’t.
Thulsa
“The Kite Runner…” One of the best in a long time, imho. Like you, I couldn’t put it down.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
June 22nd, 2011
3:59 pm
Woodstock… Well first, when said and based on what info. Cheney manipulated the info to fool a lot of people and the media. Without the entire context, I suspect the statement is being manipulated. But I am sure that you can provide the context with links and proof. It could also be a misstatement or simply false. Do note however that inspectors do NOT consitute all intelligence agencies throughout the world which is where you placed the goalposts.
Tom Middleton
June 22nd, 2011
3:59 pm
Adam
Ok, then them, too. Let’s hear it!
poison pen
June 22nd, 2011
3:59 pm
Bosch, Agreed, Agreed and AGREED.
Recon (2nd.and 3rd.)
June 22nd, 2011
3:59 pm
Adam,
Taking OBL out was justice deserved but it does nothing to stop radical Islamic terrorism. We haven’t won the war as yet but remaining in Afghanistan won’t win it either.
Bosch
June 22nd, 2011
4:00 pm
And poison, don’t forget or rewrite your history that Colin Powell was the one who told everyone those lies to sway their votes. Now, I totally respect Powell, and think that is why he resigned. He knew he did wrong and had enough kajunas to admit it and step down.
WOODSTOCK MIKE
June 22nd, 2011
4:00 pm
@Adam
On Iraq:
Biden on Meet the Press in 2002, discussing Saddam Hussein: “He’s a long term threat and a short term threat to our national security… “We have no choice but to eliminate the threat. This is a guy who is an extreme danger to the world.”
Biden on Meet the Press in 2002: “Saddam must be dislodged from his weapons or dislodged from power.”
Biden on Meet the Press in 2007, on Hussein’s WMDs: “Well, the point is, it turned out they didn’t, but everyone in the world thought he had them. The weapons inspectors said he had them. He catalogued — they catalogued them. This was not some, some Cheney, you know, pipe dream. This was, in fact, catalogued.”
Bosch
June 22nd, 2011
4:01 pm
Hey poison! That’s twice in one day!
Adam
June 22nd, 2011
4:01 pm
Recon: it does nothing to stop radical Islamic terrorism. We haven’t won the war as yet but remaining in Afghanistan won’t win it either.
Good thing I read both sentences. You are correct, neither option helps stop the terrorism.
Mary
June 22nd, 2011
4:01 pm
RedEye,
Thanks for providing the link to the stats, but, you read them wrong. 3 out of 10 said they would “definitely” be voting for President Obama. That doesn’t mean: “Only 3 in 10 will vote for Obama in next election.” A lot of folks had huge aspirations for a progressive agenda, and are disappointed to have a president who is pragmatist. Put, me in that group. While I am not as overly enthusiastic about supporting his campaign, I am thankful for many things he has accomplished and I have tapped down my hopes to realistic expectations. The correction in the economy, ours and the world’s, is going to take 5 to 7 years. There is no silver bullet, no matter who the next president is. To date, I have not seen a candidate who is more steady, stable, experienced or as intelligent as President Barack Obama. While I can’t say I am definitely voting for him, I am leaning that way as of this moment.
Brosephus
June 22nd, 2011
4:01 pm
Doom
We have the most advanced fighting force in the world. We can pretty much attack around the world without a person leaving the building they’re working in. We don’t pay for that technology to be plastered on the front cover of military magazines, those systems should be developed to be deployed when needed to minimize our casualties in any and all combat situations. That is the one area where I was disappointed in the Bush Administration, but not necessarily at Bush himself. Rumsfeld had the world’s best weapon systems at his disposal and failed to use them as designed.
Bosch
June 22nd, 2011
4:01 pm
Mike,
Who gives a flying f*ck what Biden had to say — HE WAS WRONG!
Scooter (The Original)
June 22nd, 2011
4:01 pm
I have little faith any lasting success can be realized in Afghanistan and that is partly why I supported Operation Iraqi Freedom. However. I will not berate the CiC about the issue when soldiers are in the field serving out his orders.
Joe Mama
June 22nd, 2011
4:02 pm
Mike — “You are incorrect sir, George Bush went through Congress to authorize the war in Iraq.”
Wrong.
There was no declaration of war before we invaded Iraq. And the Constitution does not describe any sort of process by which Congress can delegate its authority to declare war.
If Congress wanted to authorize a war in Iraq, then it should have voted directly on a war resolution. I have nothing but contempt for every one of those motherless Congressional SOBs who voted in favor of the AUMF but who didn’t have the stones to publicly call for a formal declaration of war.
President Bush was wrong on Iraq, and President Obama’s wrong on Libya.
Adam
June 22nd, 2011
4:03 pm
WOODSTOCK MIKE: Thank you for putting the dates up. Anyway, yes everyone in the world thought he had them, but he didn’t. Someone, somewhere, lied. And after the truth was discovered, we stayed anyway and it became obvious this was more about getting Saddam than getting his WMDs.
Thulsa Doom
June 22nd, 2011
4:03 pm
Bosch,
I’m to the right of Attila the Hun so to me anything less than that means a liberal that’s why I classified you as a liberal. Don’t take it as an insult or putting you in a box- it was just easier to say that. Last thing before I go the book by Khalid on the Taliban is supposedly highly accurate. He grew up in Afgh and is about as knowledgable as anyone on the country itself. He also came out with another book in the last year or so that’s supposed to be a great read also. I just haven’t gotten around to picking it up.
Yall have fun.
WOODSTOCK MIKE
June 22nd, 2011
4:04 pm
@Bosch
The point is blaming a single man for the war in Iraq is rediculous, if you don’t recognize that so be it.
RedEye
June 22nd, 2011
4:04 pm
Mary,
“The correction in the economy, ours and the world’s, is going to take 5 to 7 years.”
Are you saying it will take 5 to 7 years from now, or 5 to 7 years from Jan 2009?
WOODSTOCK MIKE
June 22nd, 2011
4:05 pm
@Joe Mama
Agreed…
Bosch
June 22nd, 2011
4:06 pm
“The point is blaming a single man for the war in Iraq is rediculous, if you don’t recognize that so be it.”
Absolutely not. I can blame that single person all I want — he was the one who sent the order to invade — it all falls on him. He lives with it, and I hope he remembers everyone of those dead soldiers everytime he looks in the mirror.
Joe Mama
June 22nd, 2011
4:06 pm
Mike — “The point is blaming a single man for the war in Iraq is rediculous”
No, it’s not.
Congress (wrongfully, in my view) delegated its authority to the President. The President sent us in, and we’ve been there for eight years. President Bush referred to himself as “The Decider” at the time.
Congress and the President pretty much made it publicly obvious that Mr. Bush was driving the entire train. So as far as I’m concerned, he can take all the blame, too.
Except for the scorn and obloquy I heap upon Congress for their cowardly AUMF action.
Bosch
June 22nd, 2011
4:07 pm
Doom,
That first book shook me up so much, I deliberately didn’t read the second.
Recon (2nd.and 3rd.)
June 22nd, 2011
4:07 pm
Bosch,
He listened to his advisers and then sat on it for an awful long time weighing the political ramifications of not acting on their advice. Now he’s weighed the political ramifications of not showing a movement toward troop draw down given the mood of the country. You’re kidding yourself if you don’t believe that this president isn’t attempting to walk both sides of the political ridge line.