Ga.’s farm-labor crisis going exactly as planned
Gov. Nathan Deal signs a tough illegal-immigration bill on May 13, with House Speaker David Ralston, left, and bill sponsor Rep. Matt Ramsey, right, looking on.
After enactment of House Bill 87, a law designed to drive illegal immigrants out of Georgia, state officials appear shocked to discover that HB 87 is, well, driving a lot of illegal immigrants out of Georgia.
It might almost be funny if it wasn’t so sad.
The resulting manpower shortage has forced state farmers to leave millions of dollars’ worth of blueberries, onions and other crops unharvested and rotting in the fields. It has also put state officials into something of a panic at the damage they’ve done to Georgia’s largest industry.
Barely a month ago, you might recall, Gov. Nathan Deal welcomed the TV cameras into his office as he proudly signed HB 87 into law. Two weeks later, with farmers howling, a scrambling Deal was forced to order a hasty investigation into the impact of the law he had just signed, as if all this had come as quite a surprise to him.
The results of that investigation have now been released. According to survey of 230 Georgia farmers conducted by Agriculture Commissioner Gary Black, farmers expect to need more than 11,000 workers at some point over the rest of the season, a number that probably underestimates the real need, since not every farmer in the state responded to the survey.
“The agriculture industry is the number one economic engine in Georgia and it is my sincere hope to find viable and law-abiding solutions to the current problem our farmers face,” Deal said in announcing the findings. In the meantime, Deal proposes that farmers try to hire the 2,000 unemployed criminal probationers estimated to live in southwest Georgia.
Somehow, I suspect that would not be a partnership made in heaven for either party.
According to the survey, more than 6,300 of the unclaimed jobs pay an hourly wage of $7.25 to $8.99, or an average of roughly $8 an hour. Over a 40-hour work week in the South Georgia sun, that’s $320 a week, before taxes, although most workers probably put in considerably longer hours. Another 3,200 jobs pay $9 to $11 an hour. And while our agriculture commissioner has been quoted as saying Georgia farms provide “$12, $13, $14, $16, $18-an-hour jobs,” the survey reported just 169 openings out of more than 11,000 that pay $16 or more.
In addition, few of the jobs include benefits — only 7.7 percent offer health insurance, and barely a third are even covered by workers compensation. And the truth is that even if all 2,000 probationers in the region agreed to work at those rates and stuck it out — a highly unlikely event, to put it mildly — it wouldn’t fix the problem.
Given all that, Deal’s pledge to find “viable and law-abiding solutions” to the problem that he helped create seems naively far-fetched. Again, if such solutions existed, they should have been put in place before the bill ever became law, because this impact was entirely predictable and in fact intended.
It’s hard to envision a way out of this. Georgia farmers could try to solve the manpower shortage by offering higher wages, but that would create an entirely different set of problems. If they raise wages by a third to a half, which is probably what it would take, they would drive up their operating costs and put themselves at a severe price disadvantage against competitors in states without such tough immigration laws. That’s one of the major disadvantages of trying to implement immigration reform state by state, rather than all at once.
The pain this is causing is real. People are going to lose their crops, and in some cases their farms. The small-town businesses that supply those farms with goods and services are going to suffer as well. For economically embattled rural Georgia, this could be a major blow.
In fact, with a federal court challenge filed last week, you have to wonder whether state officials aren’t secretly hoping to be rescued from this mess by the intervention of a judge. But given how the Georgia law is drafted and how the Supreme Court ruled in a recent case out of Arizona, I don’t think that’s likely.
We’re going to reap what we have sown, even if the farmers can’t.
– Jay Bookman
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619 comments Add your comment
The Thin Guy
June 15th, 2011
12:50 am
For every problem there is a solution. First, get rid of all the illegal aliens who are flooding our schools and hospitals while paying no taxes. Second, get rid of welfare, food stamps, unemployment compensation and all of the other income retribution schemes that promote bums sitting on their buns. This will force the welfare bums to go out and do the jobs the illegal aliens did. So we have solved three problems: illegal immigration, income redistribution, and the nanny state. Kudos to Governor Nathan Deal for actually solving some of our problems.
TnGelding
June 15th, 2011
2:46 am
So what’s the problem? Just plant less next year, if anything at all. What about allowing people passing through to pick their own? Or plant crops that can be harvested mechanically? Of course teenagers could be organized and go to work and get off their phones. It would be good hard work for athletes and should help get them in shape for football season. Would beat two-a-days. And the schools that produced the most could be rewarded. The illegals need to go home and improve their own countries. We need all our precious resources.
Bob
June 15th, 2011
3:58 am
Please tell me what all the other countries in the world do that don’t have slave labor to bring in their crops?
That is what we should be doing.
Rick in Grayson
June 15th, 2011
5:58 am
It’s about time that farmers used LEGAL labor! We are tired of subsidizing their “CHEAP” labor! If they can’t make a living on government subsidies (again…our TAX MONEY) then they deserve to go out of business. They can take their business model to Mexico and be farmers down there. Stop drawing illegal aliens into this country!
We are sick and tired of paying for the K-12 educations provided to the children of illegal aliens. We are tired of having our ERs used as their personal doc-in-the-box at our expense. We are tired of our courts, jails, prisons, and the law enforcement efforts being used on illegal aliens…we even have to translate from Spanish to English for most of them!
Illegal aliens are costing the state 10 times what the farmers lose (if they are really losing that much). Learn to use a legal workforce! That goes for farmers, restaurants, landscapers, hotels/motels and whoever else uses such illegal labor!
Jane
June 15th, 2011
6:14 am
Now we are seeing the attempted solution to the knee jerk reaction of Hispanic workers being scared off by the fear of the evil brown people. If prisoners / probationers want to work the fields, then fine but my guess is that short of instituting chain gangs, you are not going to have enough workers still. I predict that the cost picking of the food crops will be reflected in the stores this year and people are not going to be happy with the result. Ye shall reap the result of what you have sowed. Enjoy paying thru the nose for your crops.
Rick
June 15th, 2011
6:18 am
To Rick in Grayson:
I don’t have kids and yet I’m forced to pay for your spawn to receive what you feel is an entitlement at my expense for your kids to have a K-12 education at my expense. Where does it differ where my money is being stolen to pay for other peoples kids education whether they be brown or white? PAY FOR YOUR OWN DAMN KIDS EDUCATION AND STAY OUT OF MY WALLET YOU PARASITE !!!
Steve
June 15th, 2011
6:32 am
When people show up at the labor office to sign up for unemployment checks, give them a farmers number. When you are jobless you donot have health insurance then either.
Gator Joe
June 15th, 2011
6:36 am
Jay,
I don’t feel sorry for these farmers most of whom voted for, and supported Deal. This feel-good legislation designed to satisfy the bigots and racists does indeed have unintended consequences. Did Deal, the farmers, and the assorted bigots and racists (which probably in cludes Deal and many of the farmers) actually believe there wouldn’t be and impact on available labor. I’ll be buying as much produce as I need from other states, especially the blue states.
Ayn Rant
June 15th, 2011
6:36 am
Republican hopes and ideals are a mixture of greed and ethnic prejudice. In the case of immigrant workers, prejudice won over greed.
Normal
June 15th, 2011
6:55 am
Good Wednesday morning all y’all…
http://news.icanhascheezburger.com/2011/06/14/political-pictures-dolphins-navy-seals-highly-trained/
http://icanhascheezburger.com/2011/06/14/funny-pictures-around-the-interwebs-41/
seabeau
June 15th, 2011
7:07 am
No workie! No checkie!!
Jefferson
June 15th, 2011
7:12 am
I hear Deal’s kids have money trouble, maybe they want to pick peaches…
Jefferson
June 15th, 2011
7:14 am
Oh, btw its about wages, low for hard labor…
Bud Wiser
June 15th, 2011
7:15 am
Did you copy this subject drivel from CTuck? As the lead media stooge mistress, she has already covered this subject recently, whining and moaning about how Georgia needs these illegals here, how we cannot possibly survive their leaving.
Oh the pain, the pain.
I guess she allows here underlings to use her material after she’s done with it.
After all, only a media stooge would bemoan the loss of illegals being here, taking jobs from poor Georgians who have suffered mightily under the “hope and change” lack of leadership, and might now be able to find some work, any work; only a media stooge would whine about the loss of illegals whose medical care will now have to be paid out of the pockets of other state’s caretakers, whose kids will have to enroll in their schools and maybe qualify for eventual tuition breaks, but for now be fed, clothed and housed by those states because they want criminals there; maybe its the insurance business since most of them cannot buy any, and when they crash their cars into real citizens cars, causing mayhem, injury and death, at least the citizens insurance can cover it.
Or maybe it is this…. the media stooges, being propped by the ever loving and parental Democrat party, are in actuality, are told to bemoan the potential devastating loss of a new and future indentured servitude class minority, much like what they already have with, well, you know.
stands for decibels
June 15th, 2011
7:17 am
Illegal aliens are costing the state 10 times what the farmers lose[1]
————
1. Rick in Grayson, “Me Bum”, pg. 214.
carlosgvv
June 15th, 2011
7:24 am
So the farmers need workers but are not willing to pay a good wage and include benefits and, somehow, it’s the government’s fault because other states won’t enforce the law?
stands for decibels
June 15th, 2011
7:25 am
In the case of immigrant workers, prejudice won over greed.
Pretty much, yep.
Funny how nobody’s (from what I could stomach from skimming the comments yesterday) addressed the central point of Jay’s piece, which was this:
a scrambling Deal was forced to order a hasty investigation into the impact of the law he had just signed, as if all this had come as quite a surprise to him.
Anyone want to get Deal’s back on how he’s handled this? anyone?
stands for decibels
June 15th, 2011
7:27 am
I hear Deal’s kids have money trouble, maybe they want to pick peaches…
I’m shocked, shocked, to hear nobody suggesting that those who’ve left creditors high and dry should have to slave away in the fields of south Georgia until they’ve personally worked off that debt.
Doggone/GA
June 15th, 2011
7:28 am
“So the farmers need workers but are not willing to pay a good wage and include benefits and, somehow, it’s the government’s fault because other states won’t enforce the law?”
Nope. It’s the consumer’s fault because famers who pay a good wage would have to charge more for their produce, and would lose customers to other farmers who pay lower wages and who can charge less.
Jefferson
June 15th, 2011
7:28 am
There is no way to know how many undocumented visitors we have here in Georgia,
Jefferson
June 15th, 2011
7:31 am
When a farmer can clear $25 per hour for the year, by paying $10 per hour and they didn’t have to the picking, would that be about right ? Would they have to reduce profits ? Would farmers become “dirt” poor again?
the watch dog
June 15th, 2011
7:51 am
I have no sypathy for the farmers or plantation owners. Immigration laws are met to be adheRdred to. Farmers are a wealthy bunch aND SHOULD BE HIRING PEOPLE THAT ARE IN THE COUNTRY LEGALLY. iLLEGAL IMMIGRNTS COMMIT A DISPROPORTIONATE SHARE OF CRIME, POPULATE THE EMERGENCY ROOMS OF HOSPITALS. In 1996, 70,000 babies were born to illegal immiagrants in L.A. Now those children are starting their own families and 10 to a family thaT IS 720,000 more children that waS ALL STARTED BY A FEW IMMIGRANTS, AND ALL ON THE u.s. hEALTH cARE ySYTEM.
ken
June 15th, 2011
7:52 am
Rick, somebody without children paid school taxes to help you graduste.
Doggone/GA
June 15th, 2011
7:53 am
“In 1996, 70,000 babies were born to illegal immiagrants in L.A.”
And if they were born in LA they are citizens of the USA, with the same rights and privileges that YOU have.
stands for decibels
June 15th, 2011
7:59 am
About Bud @ 7.15.
To paraphrase Peggy Noonan: Is it irresponsible to speculate that Bud Wiser is angry and irrational because, as he’d asserted some months back, his daughter is hooked up with a guy who lives on unemployment benefits? It would be irresponsible not to!
Also, this:
IMMIGRNTS COMMIT A DISPROPORTIONATE SHARE OF CRIME
Not intended to be a factual statement.
stands for decibels
June 15th, 2011
8:02 am
Forgot to add:
IMMIGRNTS COMMIT A DISPROPORTIONATE SHARE OF CRIME
(c) 1811, 1911, & 2011, WATB LLC. All rights reserved.
Rick
June 15th, 2011
8:03 am
Ken, you sound like another entitlement minded parasite that thinks others should pick up the tab for supporting your spawn. PAY FOR YOUR OWN DAMN KIDS YOU PARASITE !!!
Doggone/GA
June 15th, 2011
8:05 am
“Ken, you sound like another entitlement minded parasite that thinks others should pick up the tab for supporting your spawn. PAY FOR YOUR OWN DAMN KIDS YOU PARASITE !!!”
WHOOOOOOSH – the sound of Ken’s point going right past Rick
stands for decibels
June 15th, 2011
8:06 am
http://www.newsweek.com/2010/05/27/reading-ranting-and-arithmetic.html
[...] the focus is not on the illegal immigrants, who are more likely to be victims than perpetrators.
That’s a distinction that raving pundits on the right have always had trouble making when they talk about an “illegal-alien crime wave.” And even some politicians who know better have been happy to stoke the fire. Thus Governor Brewer told Fox News and anyone else who’d listen, “We’ve been inundated with criminal activity. It’s just—it’s been outrageous.” Arizona’s Sen. John McCain said last month that the failure to secure the border with Mexico “has led to violence—the worst I have ever seen.” The president of the Arizona Association of Sheriffs, Paul Babeu of Pinal County, claims, “Crime is off the chart in this state.”
What the FBI chart actually shows is that the incidence of violent crime in Arizona declined dramatically in the last two years. After a spike in 2006 and 2007, the number in Phoenix dropped to 10,465 in 2008 and to 8,730 in 2009, which is lower than it was six years ago. Murders, which hit a high of 234 in 2006, dropped to 167 in 2008 and 122 in 2009. (Some lesser crimes may go unreported, especially if people are scared to talk to the cops, but police statistics only rarely miss a murder.)
Beavis
June 15th, 2011
8:08 am
The sky is falling the sky is falling, how on earth will we ever eat again without criminals picking our food. Before we had illegal aliens picking our food everybody in Georgia was dying of starvation, right libs? What a bunch of ignorant losers, liberals only want to obey the laws they like and ignore the ones they don’t like. If you don’t like a law change it, if you can’t change it you MUST obey it, that is how it works, how hard is that to understand?
SOUTHERN ATL
June 15th, 2011
8:12 am
A Voice Of Morality
June 14th, 2011
10:05 pm
Well said!
stands for decibels
June 15th, 2011
8:14 am
Until Jay posts another topic, I don’t suppose anyone wants to speculate long term about this particular issue, do they? How ultimately the only answer is an empowered, sustainably managed world population that is able to provide good opportunities for its people wherever they may live, living wages for honest work? and that anything the richest, most powerful nation ever on earth does to get to that trajectory helps, and anything we do to put this off winds up biting us in the ass?
Doggone/GA
June 15th, 2011
8:15 am
“if you can’t change it you MUST obey it, that is how it works, how hard is that to understand?”
Do you ever jaywalk? Drive over the speed limit? Change lanes without using your turn signal? Drive barefoot? How about turning at a stop sign or red light without coming to a full stop?
Ever kept a donkey in your bathtub? Ever tied a giraffe to a telephone pole? How about cussin’ on a phone call?
If you ever did any of those, you broke a law.
carlosgvv
June 15th, 2011
8:19 am
Doggone/GA
So, the Govt. and the States won’t enforce the law and it winds up being the consumers fault? Your fifth grade education really is showing today.
a reader
June 15th, 2011
8:20 am
stands for decibels – i’m widya.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
June 15th, 2011
8:21 am
stands @8:14…you’re new here aren’t you?
Joe
June 15th, 2011
8:22 am
Jay you are terribly misinformed. I work around the agriculture sector and they have been mildly hit by this legislation. Of course far left kooks like yourself will try and make an issue out of it because of your dislike for normal thinking Georgians who don’t want their hard earned tax dollars funding entitlements for illegals. Get out and ride around rural Georgia where you see field after field of blueberries, strawberries, and grapes. You’ll see that they are well packed with legal migrate workers now that this bill has been enacted thanks to our Republican representatives. It’s easy to cherry pick a few diehard democrat farmers who are willing to complain about anything Republican. Many farmers by the way are some of the biggest recipients of welfare from tax payers. That’s their real complaint is that government is cutting back on these ridiculous subsides funded by the tax payer….
Doggone/GA
June 15th, 2011
8:23 am
“So, the Govt. and the States won’t enforce the law and it winds up being the consumers fault?”
Hate to break it to you, but it’s always the consumers fault. We’re the voters, as well as the consumers, and if we didn’t go hell-bent for the lowest prices there might not even be a need for farmers to break those laws. But as VOTERS we aren’t exactly insisting that the laws be enforced either, now are we?
Call it like it is
June 15th, 2011
8:24 am
Interesting my uncle owns 400 acres in south ga, to which I just got back from last weekend, no labor issues down there, didnt hear about anything and I didnt see anything. Of course he doesnt use illegals and he pays a fair wage for a fair days work. I would put this blog in as a “cry wolf” situtation. For those on the left screaming about getting what you deserve, I guess your okay with the mega farmers taking government subsidies and then paying illegals 5 bucks an hour to pick your food. I guess its true the Democrat party is the slave party.
stands for decibels
June 15th, 2011
8:25 am
Long as I’m asking dumb questions, and back to the slightly smaller picture for a moment–the rancher who was murdered near the border in Arizona? Robert Krentz? Remember him? Good guy, from all accounts; he didn’t much care for people crossing over the border illegally, but he’d been know to provide water for some he saw who needed it.
Remember how Jan Brewer, who had been appointed as Gov. and who needed some issue to exploit to ensure election, used his death as an excuse to gin up poutrage over “illegal immigrant crime waves?”
Doesn’t anyone think it’s kind of strange that they never managed to actually solve that case? Why, a cynic might think the authorities don’t actually want it solved.
Beavis
June 15th, 2011
8:25 am
Doggone/GA
“Do you ever jaywalk? Drive over the speed limit? Change lanes without using your turn signal? Drive barefoot? How about turning at a stop sign or red light without coming to a full stop?”
And your point is, absolutely nothing and ignorant, the law is if I get a jaywalking ticket I get a fine, if I get caught speeding, you get a fine or jail depending on how fast. If you get caught driving barefoot, or running a red light you get a fine, now according to federal law if you get caught here and you are illegal you are detained then deported, is there something that you are unable to understand here? We are a nation of laws, if you don’t like that feel free to leave any time, please get a one way…
poison pen
June 15th, 2011
8:25 am
stands for decibels
June 15th, 2011
8:02 am
Forgot to add:
IMMIGRNTS COMMIT A DISPROPORTIONATE SHARE OF CRIME
Stands, you are a hypocrite, at your 7:25 post you rip on everyone because they are not discussing Bookmans original blog on Deal and here you are after 3 posts and you never mentioned it yourself.
Do you know what you even write????????????????????
a reader
June 15th, 2011
8:27 am
seriously. after reading the paper this AM i was about to write something about how slavery hasn’t been abolished – just morphed or evolved shall we say. anyway, SFD, i like the way you think.
Doggone/GA
June 15th, 2011
8:28 am
“We are a nation of laws”
Sure…we are. But law enforcement costs money. If you cut taxes, cut taxes, cut taxes, then you’ve got to be prepared for the inevitable consequences. And one of those consequences is that law enforcement doesn’t have the money or resources to actually ENFORCE those laws. So fairly minor offenses go uncaught and unpunished, because law enforcment tries to get the biggest bang for it’s buck by going after truly dangerous law breakers.
poison pen
June 15th, 2011
8:29 am
stands for decibels
June 15th, 2011
8:25 am
Long as I’m asking dumb questions, and back to the slightly smaller picture for a moment–the rancher who was murdered near the border in Arizona? Robert Krentz? Remember him? Good guy, from all accounts; he didn’t much care for people crossing over the border illegally, but he’d been know to provide water for some he saw who needed it.
Remember how Jan Brewer, who had been appointed as Gov. and who needed some issue to exploit to ensure election, used his death as an excuse to gin up poutrage over “illegal immigrant crime waves?”
Doesn’t anyone think it’s kind of strange that they never managed to actually solve that case? Why, a cynic might think the authorities don’t actually want it solved.
Stands, let us know when the last time you worked with the Mexican authorities?
Remember when the guy was shot be Mexicans while on his jet ski with his wife & friends, they haven’t solved that one yet, so what in the hell is your dumb point.
cosby smith
June 15th, 2011
8:29 am
Gee..Jay supports slavery..After being chastized all my life for the south and slavery issues, it is now ok. Unemployment is over 9%. people say they are unable to find jobes and draw Government money..take these people, let them continue the government pay check along with what a farmer would pay – problem solved…no need for illegals or slavery. And by the way Jay, who do you not incl;ude the cost to the taxpayers for illeglas – cramming the emergency room for free health care, cramming schools with non english speaking children who hold up the tlearning process for others – there is a cost to this modern day slavery!
AmVet
June 15th, 2011
8:31 am
Good morning, all.
It’s easy to cherry pick a few diehard democrat farmers who are willing to complain about anything Republican.
Ah yes, one of my very favorite techniques.
Democrat with a small d and Republican with a capitol R.
The first time that I saw an example of this?
Back in the 1960’s, whilst reading some of the repulsive, racist tracts, where the words black man were spelled with a lower case b and White man with an upper case W.
I guess the author thinks no one will comment on this puerile stupidity.
Things have not changed all that much in 50 years, huh?
AmVet
June 15th, 2011
8:32 am
Oops, make that capital R…
Patrick Malone
June 15th, 2011
8:34 am
Georgia’s #1 economic engine is dependent on illegal workers. What is wrong with this picture?
poison pen
June 15th, 2011
8:34 am
Doggone/GA
June 15th, 2011
8:23 am
“So, the Govt. and the States won’t enforce the law and it winds up being the consumers fault?”
Hate to break it to you, but it’s always the consumers fault. We’re the voters, as well as the consumers, and if we didn’t go hell-bent for the lowest prices there might not even be a need for farmers to break those laws. But as VOTERS we aren’t exactly insisting that the laws be enforced either, now are we?
Doggone, the only people on here who don’t want the laws are LIBERALS, you must cherry pick what you read because there are many people on here who want the laws enforced.
Maybe you just vote for the wrong people.
stands for decibels
June 15th, 2011
8:34 am
Ever tied a giraffe to a telephone pole?
She was dressed like she wanted it.
stands for decibels
June 15th, 2011
8:36 am
at your 7:25 post you rip on everyone because they are not discussing Bookmans original blog on Deal
I ripped on them in the past tense, pp. I don’t really expect them to be doing it now, half a day later.
stands for decibels
June 15th, 2011
8:37 am
Remember when the guy was shot be Mexicans while on his jet ski with his wife & friends
This is what passes for cross-examination in Wingnuttia.
Peadawg
June 15th, 2011
8:39 am
“Georgia’s #1 economic engine is dependent on illegal workers. What is wrong with this picture?”
Georgia’s #1 economic engine is dependent on slave labor. What is wrong with this picture? Fixed your typo. Low wages, long hours, no health insurance…sounds like that 1800s to me.
Zedd
June 15th, 2011
8:41 am
This is the farmer’s response to HB-87 since they oppose it. It’s all a plow and they’ve had it planned all along. They don’t want to have to comply with the new law or the laws they should have been abiding by all along. I have no sympathy for farmers that built their farms on false foundations with illegal workers. Put those incarcerated in state prisons to work in the fields and bring back the chain gangs!
Left wing management
June 15th, 2011
8:41 am
Doggoner : “So fairly minor offenses go uncaught and unpunished, because law enforcment tries to get the biggest bang for it’s buck by going after truly dangerous law breakers”
Yep. Tax evasion being a great example.
Joe Mama
June 15th, 2011
8:41 am
GLL — “DO you see the discussion here? Did you read Jay’s article.”
Yup. And neither the discussion nor Jay’s article own my thoughts and opinions on the matter.
“It’s democrats that want to point out what a horrible economic condition is made by stopping the practice of underpaying brown people who have no legal rights. You should be ashamed of yourself.”
And it’s Republicans who, by and large, were the ones EMPLOYING those people. Maybe you should take the two-by-four out of your own eye first.
Finn McCool
June 15th, 2011
8:42 am
i’m not a business owner so I am thinking this law will push wages up in GA for our legal poor and working classes. That gives them more money to spend which, in turn, improves our economy.
Business owners affected by the new laws will have to figure out a new business model.
mrs. w
June 15th, 2011
8:42 am
Let the non violent prisoners gather the crop and let that be the farm subsidy. Free labor for the farmers in return for free room and board, medical and dental and education for the prisoners, already bought and paid for by us, the tax payers..
stands for decibels
June 15th, 2011
8:43 am
and seriously, pp, at the risk of sounding like I am “ripping on you” (I’m not, I’m asking nicely) wouldja learn to attribute previously posted material by using italics or, if you can’t manage that bit of html wizardry, quotation marks? And not re-post the whole thing? Especially the name/date/timestamp?
Normal
June 15th, 2011
8:44 am
mrs. w
June 15th, 2011
8:42 am
Mrs W,
I like the way you think!
Finn McCool
June 15th, 2011
8:46 am
And you folks do realize the business owners have much more sway in setting policy than any individuals do, right? It doesn’t matter if the business owner is Republican, Democrat, Green or what.
Look for there to be loopholes introduced iver the next year and corruption galore as business owners start pulling out the stops to stabilize their profits.
a reader
June 15th, 2011
8:46 am
yea, this (the deal bill) is one of the smartest (in terms of what’s good for american people) far reaching (in terms of bringing out positive change) things i’ve seen a republican do in recent times. i hope it sticks and catches on.
Finn McCool
June 15th, 2011
8:47 am
Free labor for the farmers in return for free room and board, medical and dental and education for the prisoners
There’s a term for that….slavery
Normal
June 15th, 2011
8:50 am
Finn,
“There’s a term for that….slavery”
I say not so. they are wards of the state. They decide if they want to work in the fields. That’s not slavery.
mike
June 15th, 2011
8:52 am
I love how folks are blaming President Obama and the liberals for this mess. If you want to put probationers to work, let’s put all on some state subsidy out there as well. We need to be fair about this. I know the governor’s intent is not to target one group of people over another. However if you are receiving financial support from the State of Georgia, you need to get out there and pick.
Finn McCool
June 15th, 2011
8:53 am
Tell a prisoner you can do one of two things:
1) Stay in your cell/bunk and read and maybe better yourself
2) Work your tail off in the hot GA sun picking crops
and for either choice, at the end of the day, you will be no better off financially than you were at the beginning.
Which would you choose?
Now, if you work a deal so that they get a 1/4 day of reduced sentencing for every day they work in the field, that might work….and it would reduce our prison population more quickly.
mrs. w
June 15th, 2011
8:54 am
Finn: It isn’t slavery. They should be required to do something other than just sit and watch cable TV and work out all day. After all – they are being cared for with tax payer $, surely we should get something in return.
Finn McCool
June 15th, 2011
8:54 am
However if you are receiving financial support from the State of Georgia, you need to get out there and pick.
Yeah, like the owners of the Kia plant. they were given tax breaks to build their plant here. Get to pickin!
Doggone/GA
June 15th, 2011
8:55 am
“Now, if you work a deal so that they get a 1/4 day of reduced sentencing for every day they work in the field, that might work….and it would reduce our prison population more quickly”
Or give them a choice between that and some fairly set amount of pocket money to buy things.
Doggone/GA
June 15th, 2011
8:56 am
“surely we should get something in return”
We already do: they’re not out on the streets committing more crimes
Bosch
June 15th, 2011
8:56 am
“How about cussin’ on a phone call?”
Uh oh.
And damn, I’ll be right back I’ve gotta get my giraffe. Cussin’s okay on a blog, right?
Finn McCool
June 15th, 2011
8:57 am
mrs. w, you can’t force people to work. That went out with the chain gangs.
If you give them something to make them want to work, that is a diffrent story. I say, shorten their sentences for every so many hours worked.
Bosch
June 15th, 2011
8:58 am
Finn,
Maybe we should get the guys who are in jail for growing weed out in the fields — sound like a plan?
Finn McCool
June 15th, 2011
9:00 am
We could use college students. The loser of the UGA-GTech football game has to put their students in the fields all summer long.
Don't Forget
June 15th, 2011
9:01 am
Why should the farmers get free prison labor if no one else is? Aren’t the farmers one of the biggest offenders when it comes to hiring illegals? And yet some want to reward them with free prison labor.
No, the solution is simple, raise the wages and let the free market do it’s job. From the looks of things I’d say food may be a little too cheap anyway.
poison pen
June 15th, 2011
9:01 am
And it’s Republicans who, by and large, were the ones EMPLOYING those people. Maybe you should take the two-by-four out of your own eye first.
And Joe, you know this because???
AmVet
June 15th, 2011
9:01 am
Since some are so very interested in, ahem…………………..justice, I’d recommend we round up all of those men who owned home construction businesses, landscaping companies, the managers at McDonald and Walmart, who made small fortunes – illegally – etc, etc, etc, and put them on the first bus to south Georgia farms.
I’m sure my tough on crime, Republican friends want them to repay their debts to society…
Finn McCool
June 15th, 2011
9:03 am
Bosch,
Legalize weed production but not consumption in GA? Make GA an economic powerhouse. So much capital will flow into the state that technology will be harnessed to maximize production.
That’s a good plan.
poison pen
June 15th, 2011
9:03 am
stands for decibels
June 15th, 2011
8:43 am
and seriously, pp, at the risk of sounding like I am “ripping on you” (I’m not, I’m asking nicely) wouldja learn to attribute previously posted material by using italics or, if you can’t manage that bit of html wizardry, quotation marks? And not re-post the whole thing? Especially the name/date/timestamp
Stands, you post the way you want and I will post the way I want, I always love it when a Lib wants to tell someone what to do or how to spend their money.
AmVet
June 15th, 2011
9:03 am
“And Joe, you know this because???”
pen, really?
You’re not actually gonna go there, are you?
Joe Mama
June 15th, 2011
9:03 am
1811 — “Well if the farm workers work more than 40 hours they get paid for it ! Probably time and a half.”
I respect your opinion on military matters, but when it comes to farming, you obviously don’t know a g****mn thing.
They DON’T get paid for it. Harvesting is (in my experience, and ask AmVet and others who have done it) usually a piece-rate arrangement. That’s not to say you get paid a penny per potato that you dig; it’s more likely that you get a fixed rate per volume that you pick (e.g. a bushel of onions gets you so much pay). I’ve seen it work like that for everything from corn to potatoes to cabbages to strawberries. The more you pick, the more you earn.
I’ve never SEEN an hourly rate for unskilled harvesting labor; I’d be surprised if such a thing even exists. And time and a half? Fuhgeddaboutit. The incentive is picking faster to make more money. An hourly rate incents you to work SLOWER, and that’s the opposite of what the farmers want. They want their crops out of the ground/off the tree and away to market ASAP. They don’t want hourly workers slacking around and risking spoilage of part of the crop.
“No “time and a half” or “night differntial” or “Sunday Pay” or “Holiday Pay” for the grunts !!”
And none for harvesters, either. You really need to give this angle of argument up; it’s pretty plain you only know one side of the equation.
Bosch
June 15th, 2011
9:06 am
Finn,
You know? The people at the top just don’t ask the right people for solutions. I think we got this figured out.
md
June 15th, 2011
9:08 am
“Free labor for the farmers in return for free room and board, medical and dental and education for the prisoners
There’s a term for that….slavery”
“Slaves” never had a choice……..penal system vacationers had the choice prior to accepting their invitations…….and each costs the states big bucks……..I have no problem putting them to work to pay off their debt………..why should we pay for their choices??????????
Don't Forget
June 15th, 2011
9:11 am
fresh sheets upstairs
Larry Fricke
June 15th, 2011
9:12 am
Tell me where to sign up for these agriculture jobs. I can do anything a illegal immigrant can do but the one thing that I can do that’s better is that I can do it legally .
Joe Mama
June 15th, 2011
9:14 am
md — “Incorrect…….the 1st applies to the “media”….which can be and is corporations……..hence Citizens United.”
Incorrect. The First Amendment *specifies* the “press,” which has been understood by the courts to be ‘anyone who can afford a means of disseminating information in the public interest.’
Donovan
June 15th, 2011
9:20 am
Thanks, Jay, for your brilliant essay on reasons to keep law breakers picking our crops. Your editorial on swallowing a bitter pill shows your distain for law and order. Both Arizona and Georgia are making the hard choices that your liberal Democrat Party hasn’t the testicles to do. The free market made the mistake of allowing illegal immigrants to manipulate the market place. The free market will also figure out a way to come up with a better idea. For decades your liberal ideology allowed for organized labor to destroy the market place and consequently drove all American production of goods to foreign markets. Slavery does have its place in agriculture and everyone seems to be fine with it. What you are barking at is just another blame scenario against the GOP. Until the free market system figures out an alternative, other than giving a free pass to law breakers, this lazy country can grow our own back yard veggies like one of your liberal myrmidons suggested in an earlier blog.
Fletch
June 15th, 2011
9:22 am
I have a crazy suggestion for all the AG Farmers here in Georgia. Why don’t you simply follow the tried and true business practice of paying a fair wage for a fair days work? I’m sure my partners and I could make money hand over fist if we simply got rid of our “overpaid” employees and replaced them with prisoners and illegals. However, it’s not good business, and it’s certainly not good for the country as a whole. You’ll get no sympathy form me now that your gravy train has been derailed. And by the way, I don’t have a problem paying an extra dollar for fruits and vegetables as long as I know the person picking it is being treated fairly.
md
June 15th, 2011
9:22 am
“Incorrect. The First Amendment *specifies* the “press,” which has been understood by the courts to be ‘anyone who can afford a means of disseminating information in the public interest.’”
I stand corrected on my choice of word, but not on the interpretation as corporations fall under that “anyone”…….so says those same courts.
Joe Mama
June 15th, 2011
9:29 am
mrs. w — “After all – they are being cared for with tax payer $, surely we should get something in return.”
Incarceration is not a matter of investment in human capital, madam. We don’t lock people up with the expectation of ‘getting something in return’ for our expenditure on them through the Corrections system.
Finn — “Now, if you work a deal so that they get a 1/4 day of reduced sentencing for every day they work in the field, that might work….and it would reduce our prison population more quickly”
Good idea and worth considering.
Doggone — “Or give them a choice between that and some fairly set amount of pocket money to buy things.”
Also a good idea.
Joe Mama
June 15th, 2011
9:32 am
poison pen — “And Joe, you know this because???”
The carpet mills in Dalton. Poultry plants all across the South. Big meatpackers like Hormel. All of them use boatloads of undocumented laborers.
Democratic-owned and -run?
Nope.
Joe Mama
June 15th, 2011
9:35 am
md — “I stand corrected on my choice of word, but not on the interpretation as corporations fall under that “anyone”…….so says those same courts.”
Respectfully, I take strong exception to the courts’ interpretation of corporations as persons and have for many years.
IMO, courts fail to hold corporate persons responsible for corporate malfeasance and therefore, IMO do not penalize corporate lawbreaking appropriately. Therefore, corporate persons enjoy *greater* protection under the law than do human persons.
two cents worth
June 15th, 2011
9:40 am
Well the state is sitting on 10% unemployment, and we have applicants come into our workplace every day to fill out applications for jobs that aren’t open, so does it “have” to be illegal immigrants that do farm labor???
Cynthia Who?
June 15th, 2011
9:45 am
Scare tactics at its finest. Here’s an idea. Instead of continuing to pay lazy people who sit on their butts and collect food stamps and welfare month after month, have them work those jobs. Have convicts who sit in prison and suck up tax payer money pick those crops then all the proceeds go back to the jails to cover the costs of their food and tv.
If Jay had his way. Illegals would come back collect all that money under the table because they don’t have ss#. Taxpayers would front the bill on their healthcare benefits and education. Welfare abusers would still be on welfare and prisoners would still be getting funded 100% by taxpayers.
TCB
June 15th, 2011
9:45 am
Amazing how we expect people to abide by the law! I guess all of the ajc kool-aid drinkers want to condone all illegal activity. This is nothing but exaggerated propaganda from the farmers who are paying cash to illegals so that they can put more in their own pockets.
lynnie gal
June 15th, 2011
10:02 am
I feel sorry for these farmers and their predicament, but need to point out that these are the people who vote republican every election and force their policies down the throats of Atlanta, which mostly votes Democrat. Atlanta is the economic machine that drives this state and rural people don’t want to support any policies which will benefit Atlanta. Now, their stubborn devotion to these republican fools is ruining their own rural economies. When the small town folk are standing in the welfare lines themselves, will they change their minds? Sadly, probably not. Whatever lies Deal and his cronies come up with to shift the blame to Democrats, they will most likely buy into.
Joe Mama
June 15th, 2011
10:03 am
CW — “Instead of continuing to pay lazy people who sit on their butts and collect food stamps and welfare month after month, have them work those jobs. Have convicts who sit in prison and suck up tax payer money pick those crops then all the proceeds go back to the jails to cover the costs of their food and tv.”
I’m interested in your plan to transport and house the people whom you intend to work those jobs. You clearly don’t realize that harvesting work requires you to move around every two to three weeks; you don’t stay in one place for very long to get the job done.
I’m also interested in how you expect the workers to house themselves temporarily while they go down to Central and South GA to pick these crops.
straitroad
June 15th, 2011
10:36 am
This is blown out of proportion. Cut the welfare and food stamps and see how fast those fields fill up with workers.
Joe Mama
June 15th, 2011
10:54 am
straitroad — “Cut the welfare and food stamps and see how fast those fields fill up with workers.”
Good luck with that. I don’t think it will turn out anything like you apparently think it will.