The CBO verdict: RyanCare or ‘Mediscare’
Only four Republicans in the House and four in the Senate have voted against adoption of U.S. Rep. Paul Ryan’s plan to end Medicare as we know it and replace with a private voucher plan. Congressional Republican leaders have also made it clear that they will insist on Medicare reform as the price for allowing an increase in the nation’s debt ceiling.
The issue has also had a major impact politically, with public opposition to RyanCare credited with handing an overwhelming Republican district in New York into Democratic hands last month. As a result, GOP leaders are now accusing their Democratic colleagues of using “Mediscare” tactics to exaggerate the impact of Ryan’s plan.
The controversy has led me to re-read the Congressional Budget Office’s analysis of RyanCare and its impact, released in April. The report is based on descriptions of the plan provided to CBO by Ryan and his staff, and was done at Ryan’s request.
A brief bare-bones review before we get started: For those born in 1956 and earlier, RyanCare would change nothing. For those born in 1955 and later, RyanCare replaces Medicare with a government voucher that senior citizens can use to subsidize their purchase of private health insurance plans.
The CBO report is 29 pages, but as it turns out, the agency provided a succinct, if somewhat dense, summation of its major findings in a single paragraph, which I’ve broken into sections and reprinted below. The CBO language is in plain text; my own commentary follows in italics.
Here goes:
“A private health insurance plan covering the standardized benefit would, CBO estimates, be more expensive currently than traditional Medicare. Both administrative costs (including profits) and payment rates to providers are higher for private plans than for Medicare.”
(In other words, because it privatizes coverage, RyanCare would drive total health-care spending on senior citizens considerably higher than it would be under Medicare. As CBO notes, administrative costs are considerably higher in private plans. In addition, because private plans lack the market power of Medicare to control costs, they pay more than Medicare for the same services.
How much would costs rise? By 2022, CBO numbers estimate, the cost of a Medicare-equivalent health insurance plan purchased from a private company for a 65-year-old would be $20,500. If that same coverage were provided through Medicare, total costs would be just $14,500. That’s an extra $6,000 in costs to be paid by the recipient, on top of the $6,500 in out-of-pocket expenses already required under Medicare.
To get some idea of the impact of that additional cost, Social Security predicts that in 2022, SSI recipients aged 65-69 will have a median income of just $34,000 from all sources. Again, that’s the median income. Half will have higher incomes; half will have lower incomes. And again, according to CBO, out-of-pocket health expenses for a 65-year-old under RyanCare in 2022 will total $12,500.
$34,000 – $12,500 = not very much)
“Those higher costs (of private health insurance) would be offset partly but not fully by savings from lower utilization stemming from two sources. First, private health insurers would probably impose greater utilization management than occurs in Medicare.”
(In other words, to borrow the bluntly misleading terminology of the right, “death panels.” Private companies would try to offset their greater administrative costs and other inefficiencies by denying treatment more often.)
“Second, private plans might restrict enrollees’ ability to purchase supplemental insurance plans; enrollees would thus face higher out-of-pocket costs than they do in Medicare, and that increased cost sharing would encourage lower utilization.”
“Lower utilization” means less health care. And as CBO warns, that could have other consequences. For example, “beneficiaries’ greater cost-sensitivity could result in a slower introduction or less frequent use of new, costly, but possibly beneficial, technologies and techniques than would occur under current law. Instead, technological innovation might focus increasingly on cost-saving rather than cost-increasing technologies.”
“On net, for a typical 65-year-old in 2011, CBO estimates that average spending in traditional Medicare will be 89 percent of (that is, 11 percent less than) the spending that would occur if that same package of benefits was purchased from a private insurer.” (see Figure 1 below.)
In more direct English, if Medicare were to be privatized today, costs would immediately jump 11 percent. As Figure 1 from the CBO notes (see below), by 2022, total health insurance costs under RyanCare would be 33 percent higher than under Medicare. By 2030, total health insurance costs would be 40 percent higher than under Medicare. And again, all of that additional cost and then some would come out of the pockets of senior citizens and into the pockets of the insurance industry.
– Jay Bookman
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411 comments Add your comment
Granny Godzilla
June 1st, 2011
9:11 am
Privatization: Bah Humbug.
stands for decibels
June 1st, 2011
9:15 am
In more direct English
…if the Dems somehow can’t beat the Republicans like a yard dog on this issue in 2012, the fix is in.
josef nix
June 1st, 2011
9:16 am
I was born before the magical year, so I guess I don’t have anything much to say, eh? But nice graphs…
And that age cut off? I guess the GOP is just pandering to its old f*rt base…?
ty webb
June 1st, 2011
9:18 am
“…plan to end Medicare as we know it…”
hmmmm…wonder where jay got that one from.
Bosch
June 1st, 2011
9:18 am
Looks to me like there’s going to be more and more folks like us in the next coming decades — taking care of your old folks at home!
Good luck!!
Peadawg
June 1st, 2011
9:18 am
“Congressional Republican leaders have also made it clear that they will insist on Medicare reform as the price for allowing an increase in the nation’s debt ceiling.”
Very nice, Republicans! I’m not sure what exactly needs to be done but it’s paying out more than it receives so it obviously needs fixin’ somehow.
Doggone/GA
June 1st, 2011
9:21 am
“wonder where jay got that one from”
From Ryan’s proposed budget, where else?
Paul
June 1st, 2011
9:22 am
So we now have the reason Republican leaders and talk-show types use emotional comebacks like “Mediscare” rather than address Democrats’ assertions, supported by the CBO, that the Ryan plan does not solve the problem.
If the NY 26th’s district is any indication, maybe voters are more intelligent than the establishment gives them credit for -
ty webb
June 1st, 2011
9:22 am
“From Ryan’s proposed budget, where else?”
Doggone, you just lied.
Misty Fyed
June 1st, 2011
9:23 am
I read about how bad the Republican’s budget plan is….How bad their medicare fix is….What I don’t seem to see is any Democrat plan? Just more of the same. Spend what we don’t have. Who cares if our debt is over $14 trillion. Let our kids worry about that. We need to get ours because we are special.
Don’t you dems ever get tired of not having any real leadership? Do you really accept this criticize the republicans but not address the problem tactic? Is that what you expect out of your leaders?
josef nix
June 1st, 2011
9:25 am
PAUL
“If the NY 26th’s district is any indication, maybe voters are more intelligent than the establishment gives them credit for -”
Maybe. But it’s doubtful.
Jay
June 1st, 2011
9:25 am
FYI, I’ll be in meetings, etc., for the next couple of hours at least, and will try to catch up with the discussion once I emerge.
Quick
June 1st, 2011
9:27 am
1956 and earlier and 1955 and later. Huh? Isn’t 1955 earlier than 1956? In grade school they said it was.
Zedd
June 1st, 2011
9:27 am
Throw-granny-from-the-cliff ad asks what the U.S. would be “without Medicare”
PolitiFact: But the notion that the Paul Ryan budget proposal would leave the country “without Medicare” merits a rating of False.
http://politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2011/may/25/agenda-project/throw-granny-cliff-asks-what-country-would-be-with/
Doggone/GA
June 1st, 2011
9:28 am
“Doggone, you just lied”
Nope…but YOU did by accusing me of lying.
robert
June 1st, 2011
9:28 am
good morning liberals- have a great time patting yourself on the back all day. It is your highest and best use.
Mary Elizabeth
June 1st, 2011
9:30 am
josef @ 9:16
“I was born before the magical year, so I guess I don’t have anything much to say, eh?”
——————————–
Don’t be too sure about that. Some commentators are saying that those 55 and over would soon, thereafter, be significantly effected – adversely – if the Ryan plan, which dismantles Medicare as we know it, were to be implemented.
ty webb
June 1st, 2011
9:30 am
Doggone,
show me where in his budget proposal, Ryan uses those DNC talking points(”end medicare as we know it”.
Doggone/GA
June 1st, 2011
9:32 am
“Ryan uses those DNC talking points(”end medicare as we know it”.
I see you haven’t actually read the proposal. Try it, you might learn something. Or even…just read Jay’s piece on which you are commenting.
Mary Elizabeth
June 1st, 2011
9:34 am
Here are my comments on Jim Garrison’s blog yesterday on Ryan’s Medicare change:
June 1st, 2011
12:22 am
south ga. possum @ 9:29
“So please, hurry up and qualify, select which party you’re gonna be a party of and let us know how easy it is to fix this mess we’re in.”
———————————————————-
Here is your answer, south ga. possum: Vote the Democratic ticket in 2012. Voting the Republican ticket would insure the death of Medicare, as we now know it, and would probably, also, be the death of Social Security, as we know it.
Don’t vote against your own best interests. Don’t be fooled by those politicians who are looking out for the interests of the very wealthy and corporate interests, not your interests. By working together, middle/working class Americans can again flourish, but you must break free of the ideology of the Republican Party and its easy slogans that have misled many.
————————————————
May 31st, 2011
9:20 pm
The average income for seniors over 65 is $14,000. per year. Under the Ryan plan, Medicare payments for senior’s health insurance would be $12,000. per year. That, of course, would not include costs for catastrophic illness, if one could not qualify for private health insurance at that advanced age.
I think pooling together, as a national “group,” as in the present Medicare plan – with adjustments made to improve it – is a more effective plan than Rep. Ryan’s plan for “every man/woman for him/herself” for medical expenses after age 65.
Don’t be swayed by easy slogans; use your common sense and vote accordingly.
Notice how “pooling together” for a public insurance plan for all Vermonters is not only more effective, but also more cost effective, for all Vermonters:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJLvL1JReN4&feature=related
josef nix
June 1st, 2011
9:35 am
robert
But where would you be without us? What would you have to kvetch about then? Glad to be of service.
Paul
June 1st, 2011
9:35 am
morning, josef nix
What’s it called when one swings between periods of extreme cynicism and bouts of eternal optimism?
Reality?
off for a bit -
Doggone/GA
June 1st, 2011
9:35 am
“Um, Jay, prices do matter”
Yep, and the current Medicare plan is cheaper
Mick
June 1st, 2011
9:36 am
I spit on the ground paul ryan walks on, his solution divides the country and generations. Not to mention, gives more money to the well off. Dems should be able to retake the house on this issue alone. After all, the repubs rode the anti obamacare fake tea party all the way to 2010. This is our chance to fix the problem and vanquish the conservative repubs back to the minority, where they rightfully belong.
Some people are stupid
June 1st, 2011
9:37 am
Misty Fyed
You do realize that Ryan’s budget continues to “spend what we don’t have” as well right??
Doggone/GA
June 1st, 2011
9:37 am
“If it showed a significant ability to reduce our National Debt AND maintain (or increase) the quality of care for ALL our citizens…would ‘Christians’ and/or ‘Conservatives support it?”
I can answer part of this. I WON’T help reduce our debt…BUT, if we can expand it to cover all citizens without significantly increasing the debt, it will be worth it in the long run.
DebbieDoRight
June 1st, 2011
9:38 am
robert: good morning liberals- have a great time patting yourself on the back all day. It is your highest and best use.
Ha! funny!!
but hey, you republicans like to pat each other on your backs, knees, in bathroom stalls, in S. America (while supposedly “hiking” in the mountains), on Craigslist…………
jm
June 1st, 2011
9:39 am
“In addition, because private plans lack the market power of Medicare to control costs, they pay more than Medicare for the same services. ”
so individuals don’t have pricing power and the companies don’t either? one wonders how supply and demand ever works. totally weird…..
Um, Jay, prices do matter…
Soothsayer
June 1st, 2011
9:39 am
This — the Ryan Plan — is the best thing ever to happen to the Democratic Party. Like I said, NY26 was going to be the bellwether for the entire 2012 elections. And, the Democrat won handily. Yet, the Republicans — like stubborn mules — have refused to budge from their nutty ideology. My advice to Republicans: KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK! We ain’t hardly gonna miss you come 2012!
Some people are stupid
June 1st, 2011
9:40 am
jm-
so individuals don’t have pricing power and the companies don’t either?
It’s called the walmart effect. Like how Walmart has influence over it’s suppliers due to its enormous size, so to does medicare. Would you rather have 100 patients at 100 or 1000 patients at 50
Lord Help Us
June 1st, 2011
9:40 am
I wonder if there is a credible analysis of the costs and level of care that would be provided via a real Single-Payer (yes, socialized medicine)…
If it showed a significant ability to reduce our National Debt AND maintain (or increase) the quality of care for ALL our citizens…would ‘Christians’ and/or ‘Conservatives support it?
Just wonderin…
jm
June 1st, 2011
9:41 am
Status quo: not an option
poison pen
June 1st, 2011
9:42 am
Why don’t our sleazy politicans have the balls to go after all the cheats in Medicare, SS and all the other Govt sponsered programs, this is what’s killing us.
60 minutes did an excellent piece on Medicare several months ago ( Steve Croft ) 1 guy alone scammed Medicare out of 20 Million and the FBI believes there are thousands of these scam shops around the country.
Our sleazy politicans always want to change something instead of going after the real problem, and when I say sleazy I mean both sides.
ragnar danneskjold
June 1st, 2011
9:42 am
Good morning all. Dear Jay, the error in the CBO analysis you quote is called “static analysis.” The genius of the Ryan plan, which I obviously favor, is that it introduces market discipline, now sorely lacking and causative of explosive increases in medical costs. People who spend only “other people’s money” have no constraint on behavior; by making sure the spenders have skin the game, cost increases are constrained. While the CBO cannot reasonably estimate the magnitude of the constraint, government economists always err by underestimating market effects.
DebbieDoRight
June 1st, 2011
9:42 am
Mary Elizabeth: Don’t vote against your own best interests. Don’t be fooled by those politicians who are looking out for the interests of the very wealthy and corporate interests, not your interests. By working together, middle/working class Americans can again flourish, but you must break free of the ideology of the Republican Party and its easy slogans that have misled many.
but, but, but, Rush TOLD ME that Ryan’s plan was great!! He even hinted that he’d use it himself, (although he’s a millionaire and wouldn’t really need it).
jm
June 1st, 2011
9:42 am
“Instead, technological innovation might focus increasingly on cost-saving rather than cost-increasing technologies.”
god knows this is what we actually need…..
Normal
June 1st, 2011
9:43 am
Those born with the silver spoon in their mouths won’t ever have to worry about medical costs. The young doesn’t have to worry either…yet. But when they finally reach that “magical” age of 65 when mortality starts looking back at them from the mirror;
if they haven’t properly planned financially, if they never had a finanical set back, and if they hadn’t had every lucky break in life there was, then they just might end up wishing for the “good ol’ days of Medicare”. Just a thought.
Mary Elizabeth
June 1st, 2011
9:44 am
Lord Help Us @ 9:40
“I wonder if there is a credible analysis of the costs and level of care that would be provided via a real Single-Payer (yes, socialized medicine)…”
————————————-
Be sure you listen to the following link which describes Vermont’s cost effective single payer insurance plan, for individuals and for the state.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJLvL1JReN4&feature=related
Joe Mama
June 1st, 2011
9:45 am
Ragnar — “The genius of the Ryan plan, which I obviously favor, is that it introduces market discipline, now sorely lacking and causative of explosive increases in medical costs. People who spend only “other people’s money” have no constraint on behavior; by making sure the spenders have skin the game, cost increases are constrained.”
Huh. I guess this didn’t happen then.
“2010 Health Insurance Premiums Include Major Increases: A fall 2009 survey of state insurance regulators by the National Association of Insurance Commissioners found that average insurance policies will increase between 11% to 16%—and as high as 25% to 30%—annually in most states.”
http://www.ncsl.org/Default.aspx?TabId=14509
Yep, those market forces are sure doing a bang-up job of holding medical costs down.
Soothsayer
June 1st, 2011
9:45 am
Offshoring has Destroyed the US Economy
For a decade I have warned that US corporations, pressed by Wall Street and large retailers such as Wal-Mart, to move offshore their production for US consumer markets, were simultaneously moving offshore US GDP, US tax base, US consumer income, and irreplaceable career opportunities for American citizens.
[W]ith engineering, design, and research jobs offshored, and with many of the jobs that remain within the US filled by foreigners on HB-1 and L-1 visas, we now have the phenomenon of American university and college graduates, heavily indebted with student loans, jobless, and living with their parents, who support them.
This is a great article by Paul Craig Roberts and well worth the few minutes it will take you to read it.
josef nix
June 1st, 2011
9:47 am
Mary Elizabeth
Tried to respond, but seems I’m going too fast…would take it personally, but seems everybody’s getting it. I guess the other AJC blog spots put up a fuss that the Bruin’s was laying them in the shade…
Anyway, as I said, I’ve already picked me out a trash heap I want to be dumped on. But what really tickles me is how they keep yapping about “return to traditional family values.” Unmentionable says they sure do, the really traditional ones, give you a piece of blubber and slap your tired and useless ass on a passing ice floe..at least the Thulsas of the world will admit it…talk about your death panels…
Hey, Paul…
Reality’s not all it’s cracked up to be. Tried it once. Didn’t much care for it!
Peadwag, The Second
June 1st, 2011
9:47 am
Thank you, Doofus Paul, for gifting the Democrats their 2012 election campaign meme. President Obama’s reelection was never in doubt, but the Democrats’ performance was, admittedly, an open question. That question now has an affirmative answer: DEMOCRATS RETAKE CONTROL OF THE HOUSE AND REGAIN THEIR SUPERMAJORITY IN THE SENATE.
For entertainment purposes, let us all hope and pray that Sarah the Pathetic runs for and wins the Republicrazy nomination. I have come to realize there is no finer spectacle than a herd of elephants gouging and engorging themselves on the rancid flesh of their own.
jm
June 1st, 2011
9:48 am
Some people 9:40 – you don’t get it. When the user doesn’t pay for the service, yes, the only people with pricing power might be the hospitals and doctors and drug companies (though I think that’s bogus, see shrinkage in private practices).
Point is, prices increase exponentially because the user doesn’t pay. That has to change.
jm
June 1st, 2011
9:48 am
ok gotta go, cheers.
ty webb
June 1st, 2011
9:49 am
“I see you haven’t actually read the proposal…”
wrong again, Doggone.
AmVet
June 1st, 2011
9:49 am
Josef, yep, this older dog just sits back and says, “Sure must suck to be young!”
The worst healthcare that tons of dirty money can buy. So, let’s double down on it!
And the fiscally irresponsible far right wing is still clueless. Even though they just suffered their third straight humiliation:
1) The birth certificate punking
2) The Uppity Muslim gets the Killer Muslim a third eye
3) The GOP loses a congressional seat that they had controlled almost non-stop since before the Civil War – primarily on this very issue
It’s been a really bad stretch for the cons, and augers to get worse…
Normal
June 1st, 2011
9:50 am
Josef,
http://icanhascheezburger.com/2011/05/29/funny-pictures-all-my-reality-checks/
Doggone/GA
June 1st, 2011
9:51 am
“Point is, prices increase exponentially because the user doesn’t pay. That has to change”
Single-payer would fix THAT
Get Real
June 1st, 2011
9:51 am
What part of the “status quo is unsustainable” is confusing everyone.
OK, if the Ryan plan does not get us there, then the democrats should come up with a reasonable alternative but they have not. Trying to take away or more precisely modify an “entitlement” once it is provided is beyond difficult and we are seeing that fact played out in the many reactions to Ryan’s actual plan as well as the many outright lies describing Ryan’s plan.
Bottom line, it is going to take adults to make some very difficult decisions to safeguard our future and I am afraid there are no longer adults in DC; we even heard Clinton indicating that precise concern, something has to be done before truly drastic draconian measures are required.
The clock is ticking….
getalife
June 1st, 2011
9:52 am
Never, ever allow corrupt congress to get their filthy hands on Medicare or SS.
Only brainwashed cons want them to steal them.
Keep yelling at them because they don’t listen to you.
The majority will vote against the gop because of this issue.
buck@gon
June 1st, 2011
9:52 am
One will notice the eternal O-promise to eliminate “waste” fraud and abuse in this coming campaign season of handpicked townhall meetings. One might, if one were a diligent journalist, also note that such w.f&a amounts to far more than ins co profits.
In other words, the fact that democrats are capable of only the worst money handling ought to lead us to doubt COO claims. Like Obamacare and the prescription drug plan, any legislated plan is only as good as the unaccountable careerist bureaucrat incompetent running the program at the behest of Washington elites.
Personally, I’d rather give my money for medical care to AFLAC.
ragnar danneskjold
June 1st, 2011
9:52 am
Dear Joe Mama@ 9:45, good morning, your fallacy is your assumption that market forces exist now. They don’t. The Ryan plan creates that which does not exist now – true market discipline, across the board.
Mary Elizabeth
June 1st, 2011
9:53 am
More of my comments on Jim Garrison’s blog yesterday:
Mary Elizabeth
May 31st, 2011
6:01 pm
I wonder if Rep. Price is aware of the fact that after 2030, seniors would have to pay 68% of their medical expenses under the Ryan plan? I recommend that readers read the following link to understand, more fully, how the Ryan plan would dismantle Medicare – as we know it today.
Ryan’s plan is an inhumane one for seniors, as they age, in my opinion. Please read the following:
http://www.kaiserhealthnews.org/Stories/2011/April/06/CBO-Seniors-Pay-More-Medicare-Ryan-Plan.aspx
Mary Elizabeth
May 31st, 2011
8:23 pm
I am presently on Medicare. I care about future generations as they age, not simply about myself. Conservatives have been trying to dismantle all “entitlements” since the 1970s. Therefore, they have politically, shrewdly, limited the dialogue to a budgetary “box” which includes only entitlement cutting.
Break out of that “box” and think instead in a larger “box” for budgetary improvement, such as cutting tax subsidies to corporations and returning to the tax rates of the Clinton years for all Americans, causing the Bush tax cuts to expire. (Also, today, I might add, cut the military budget as we withdraw from Afghanistan and Iraq.)
Recon (2nd.and 3rd.)
June 1st, 2011
9:53 am
Jay goes on about the cost comparisons between traditional Medicare and Ryan’s proposed reform. The problem is that Medicare can’t continue in the form that it exists today. Kyle had a good piece on his blog a few days ago. Paraphrasing his topic on “mediscare” he said the what’s really scary is pretending that Medicare doesn’t need to be reformed. That indeed is scary because if we choose to believe that no reform is necessary than one day Medicare won’t exist for anyone. When Democrats intend to slash half a trillion dollars out of Medicare to fund the new Obamacare entitlement, they’re really trying to scam the public into believing that they’re the saviors of Medicare, when in reality they’re the ones destroying it.
getalife
June 1st, 2011
9:54 am
The American people will send the same message to the gop when the gop tried to steal SS.
Lets send them a message to end these robberies once and for all.
con Seniors unite with the rest of the real American people and demolish the gop in 12 so they will never try to steal Medicare and SS again.
The gop are the whig party and should be disbanded.
Some people are stupid
June 1st, 2011
9:54 am
jm-
I didn’t know supply and demand theory cared who paid. Must have missed that in my economics class.
lovelyliz
June 1st, 2011
9:54 am
Preaching number and facts to the crowd that doesn’t believe in math is rather frustrating, isn’t it?
Libtard
June 1st, 2011
9:55 am
Is it a suprise to anyone that the DemocRATS have proposed NOTHING to solve this problem? Like Jay, all they have done is blast the attempts to solve it. At least one party is in washington doing what the people elected them to do. It’s so classic to watch. Just like how democRATS don’t do their job and propose a budget, then blast republicans that pick up the task MONTHS after a democratic controlled house and senate had a chance to pass something unopposed.
I find all this funny. Luckily, I am living my life with no expectation of a government tit being there for me to suck on. All my own needs will be provided for, while the entitlement nation will stand by in shock as the nanny state’s milks is sucked dry by moochers and looters, leaving them wondering who will wipe their asses? Pathetic parasites.
@@
June 1st, 2011
9:55 am
But jay left out an important fact:
Stephen Spruiell, a spokesman for the Republicans on the Committee on the Budget: “Elsewhere in the letter, CBO makes clear that the comparison is making unrealistic assumptions in order to construct a future for Medicare under the status quo –- a future in which Medicare goes bankrupt, seniors suffer from reduced access to care, and the nation enters a debt crisis.”
Indeed, the CBO clearly states that both of its scenarios, by keeping benefits largely as they are, would create “pressures over the long term that would make them difficult to sustain.” Without Medicare reform, the CBO warned “the government’s debt would skyrocket to levels unprecedented in the United States.” That would result in either rising tax rates or “surging federal debt.” And that, in turn, might lead lawmakers to reduce Medicare benefits.
Said Spruiell: “Comparing our plan to save Medicare to an unsustainable status quo means comparing a real plan to a false reality. The president’s comparison is not valid, because he ripped the CBO number out of context and omitted the director’s clear warnings about the unsustainability of the status quo.”
For those who have never negotiated routine medical costs, it can be loads of fun.
Another truth that the Dems avoid mentioning. Thomas Sowell fills us in.
The desperately poor elderly conjured up in political and media rhetoric are– in the world of reality– the wealthiest segment of the American population. The average wealth of older households is nearly three times the wealth of households headed by people in the 35 to 44-year-old bracket, and more than 15 times the wealth of households headed by someone under 35 years of age.
If the wealthiest segment of the population cannot pay their own medical bills, who can? The country as a whole is not any richer because the government pays our medical bills– with money that it takes from us.
Mary Elizabeth
June 1st, 2011
9:56 am
And, today, I posted this on Cynthia Tucker’s blog:
Mary Elizabeth
June 1st, 2011
9:09 am
“That way, Scott can concentrate on solidifying his support among overwhelmingly white tea partiers.”
——————————-
Rep. Austin Scott may be in for a rude awakening when the “white tea partiers,” who are his south Georgia base, vote the Democratic ticket in 2012 because they realize that voting the Republican ticket will ensure the dismantling of Medicare, as we know it (and even, perhaps Social Security, as we know it.)
WrteStufLA
June 1st, 2011
9:56 am
“For those born in 1956 and earlier, RyanCare would change nothing. For those born in 1955 and later, RyanCare replaces Medicare with a government voucher that senior citizens can use to subsidize their purchase of private health insurance plans.”
Is there a typo in that? Should the “1955″ be “1957″?
The Thin Guy
June 1st, 2011
9:56 am
Meanwhile, back at the ranch, we will all (excepts for those given waivers such as labor unions and people who live in Nancy Pelosi’s district) be forced into Marxist Medicine in 2014. To give you an idea how this works, the waiting time is now down to 18 weeks in Scotland
http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/news/39No-patient-will-wait-longer.6777648.jp
A waiting time of 18 weeks will look really good in 2014 as our nation’s healthcare system is destroyed and the national debt drives a stake through the heart of what used to be the greatest country on Earth.
As Long John Silver said in Treasure Island: Them that dies will be the lucky ones.
Bosch
June 1st, 2011
9:56 am
“then the democrats should come up with a reasonable alternative but they have not.”
Well, they have, but the wingnuts like to scream “socialized medicine” and scare everyone just like the Dems are doing now with RyanCare.
The single payer system is the only way to actually lower costs.
AmVet
June 1st, 2011
9:58 am
“…market discipline…”?
ROTFLMAO!!!!
In case you Rip van Winkle’s missed it, we’ve all seen the disastrous results of this “market discipline” lately!
Or as it was less euphemistically known, “A sustained orgy of greed and reckless behavior.”
There is virtually no market discipline anymore.
No more enlightened self-interest by BIG business.
Just pigs at the trough…
carlosgvv
June 1st, 2011
9:58 am
The Republicans have made it clear they will never stop giving their Corporate sponsors tax breaks and other perks, even if it means taking money from the poor and elderly. Many words could be used to describe this. Sociopathic is my choice.
Granny Godzilla
June 1st, 2011
9:58 am
Funny,
I haven’t had any problems finding info on the Democratic Plans for medicare…..
But if Eric Cantor says they don’t exist, weak minds don’t bother to look.
Normal
June 1st, 2011
9:59 am
Get Real,
Come on now…The Democrats have proposed elimination or severe reductions of agra and oil subsidies, elimination of defence spending waste and the return to the Clinton era tax scales.
The problem is, and the Republicans can’t sell it, the fact that they are ideology opposed to programs that help those in need, especially the elderly. And the gall of it all is that they call themselves “Pro Life”.
But you are right sir…the clock IS ticking. The “Boomers” are a pretty big voting block. We want what we have paid into, sure, but we also want it there for our Grand kids.
Mr_B
June 1st, 2011
10:00 am
The only thing about Medicare that republicans are interested in saving is the name. In the republican lexicon “reform” = “evisceration.” Ryan exempts those over 55 because we are old enough to remember an America without Medicare, and it wasn’t always pretty.
Get Real
June 1st, 2011
10:00 am
Bosch….ObamaCare and/or universal healthcare is not the answer….I appreciate your response but you are barking up the wrong tree…
Government controlled healthcare…aka, single payer can only control costs if access were significantly constrained
Soothsayer
June 1st, 2011
10:01 am
Medicare
The projected 75-year actuarial deficit in the HI Trust Fund is 0.79 percent of taxable payroll, up from 0.66 percent projected in last year’s report. The HI fund fails the test of short-range financial adequacy, as projected assets drop below one year’s projected expenditures early in 2011. The fund also continues to fail the long-range test of close actuarial balance. Medicare’s HI Trust Fund is expected to pay out more in hospital benefits and other expenditures than it receives in income in all future years. The projected date of HI Trust Fund exhaustion is 2024, five years earlier than estimated in last year’s report, at which time dedicated revenues would be sufficient to pay 90 percent of HI costs. The share of HI expenditures that can be financed with HI dedicated revenues is projected to decline slowly to 75 percent in 2045, and then to rise slowly, reaching 88 percent in 2085. Over 75 years, HI’s actuarial imbalance is estimated to be equivalent to 21 percent of tax receipts or 17 percent of program outlays.
“The projected 75-year actuarial deficit in the HI Trust Fund is 0.79 percent of taxable payroll”
Now, if I’m reading this correctly, we can simply increase the Medicare withholding from its current 2.9% to 3.69% and have a fully-solvent Medicare program. Is this what everyone is really worried about?
Bosch
June 1st, 2011
10:02 am
Mrs. G.,
And they say Democrats haven’t come up with a plan, but yet keep screaming “Obamacare!” — I wonder if they ever tire of talking out two sides of their mouths? That would exhaust me.
josef nix
June 1st, 2011
10:02 am
BOSCH
Socialized medicine? Would that it were…
Mary Elizabeth
June 1st, 2011
10:03 am
Recon @ 9:53
“Kyle had a good piece on his blog a few days ago. Paraphrasing his topic on “mediscare” he said the what’s really scary is pretending that Medicare doesn’t need to be reformed.”
——————————-
Of course, Medicare needs to be reformed, but there is a HUGE difference in cutting the waste and fraud from the present day Medicare and overhauling it entirely to a voucher program which in effect woould throw the old, as they age, “to the wolves.”
To readers,
Who do you trust more with your Medicare, Republicans who have had as their agenda, for 35 years, to dismantle all entitlements (government programs) or Democrats who have supported the American people with these baseline securities since FDR?
Be wise in your choice. Trust whom you know you can trust.
Don’t vote the Republican ticket simply because it represents the majority in Georgia. If you do, you will be voting against your own best interests.
Granny Godzilla
June 1st, 2011
10:04 am
Marxist Medicine?
Paging Doctor Hackenbush! Paging Dr. Hackenbush!
Beavis
June 1st, 2011
10:05 am
How stupid can one person be, if I told you every day that the sky was orange how long till you believe me? That is like CBO numbers, they have NEVER been correct, not even once.
josef nix
June 1st, 2011
10:05 am
Mr B
Shalom! You know, I hadn’t thought of that angle, but I daresay there’s more than a modicum of truth in it.
Uncle Jed
June 1st, 2011
10:06 am
End government assisted inefficiencies at all levels and kill all these nanny-state programs. Return to being self-sufficient. And what is wrong with taking care of your parents in old age anyway? Man up and take care of your own damn business and quit looking to government for support, which is nothing more than asking your neighbor to take care of you because you didn’t have plan.
Have a nice day.
BlahBlahBlah
June 1st, 2011
10:06 am
Let’s just do nothing and leave Medicare exactly as it is. What’s a $30 trillion unfunded liability among friends anyway!
Doggone/GA
June 1st, 2011
10:07 am
“And what is wrong with taking care of your parents in old age anyway?”
And what if “your parents” AREN’T parents? Or what if they were, but their children are DEAD?
J Wellington Wimpy
June 1st, 2011
10:09 am
I have come to realize there is no finer spectacle than a herd of elephants gouging and engorging themselves on the rancid flesh of their own.
Ewwwwwwww!!
jm: Point is, prices increase exponentially because the user doesn’t pay. That has to change.
The user doesn’t pay in the case of the military either. The VA / GAO makes deals with big pharma, etc. for the best prices and comes away with the best deal. This is wher VOLUME comes in over price.
I would glady pay you tuesday for a hamburger today………
Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)
June 1st, 2011
10:09 am
Well, this country is going to the dogs. You can’t even put the shaft to the old geezers without people getting all bent out of shape.
Me, I figure a geezer making $14,000 could afford a $12,000 premium with a couple thousand to spare to waste on stuff like food and housing and clothing. But no, most people just won’t listen to reason.
Have a good Wednesday everybody.
buck@gon
June 1st, 2011
10:09 am
Also it is important to remember: medi-governmemt “saves” money by underpaying. What perpetuating Medicare does is to prolong and extend government coercion and control over those who provide the care.
Rightwing Troll
June 1st, 2011
10:09 am
“The Ryan plan creates that which does not exist now – true market discipline, across the board.”
Even if there were a modicum of truth in that assumption, you’d also have to assume that they would do as they say. That’s not a good bet.
getalife
June 1st, 2011
10:10 am
Attention Seniors:
You yelled at the gop and they ignored you.
Never vote gop so they can steal Medicare and SS.
Unite with the majority and vote against the gop in 12 so they will never try to steal them again.
They will listen when they lose big in 12.
Thank you Seniors.
Doggone/GA
June 1st, 2011
10:10 am
“What perpetuating Medicare does is to prolong and extend government coercion and control over those who provide the care”
Do you realize you are actually saying that the medical community should be allowed to profit from the sick and dying without any sort of restraints?
josef nix
June 1st, 2011
10:10 am
Granny
We could all use a little Marxism…thanks! That was great!
Bosch
June 1st, 2011
10:11 am
“….ObamaCare and/or universal healthcare is not the answer”
Well, for one thing, Get Real, the new HC law is about the furthest thing away from universal healthcare.
“Government controlled healthcare…aka, single payer can only control costs if access were significantly constrained”
That’s not what every other industrialized country on the planet says.
Get Real
June 1st, 2011
10:12 am
Normal…even if the Bush/Obama tax cuts were eliminated for the so called wealthy and tax subsidies were eliminated for selected industries it would be the equivalent of throwing a brick in the grand canyon as far as having an impact on the overall debt.
Entitlements in their current form have got to be reformed or modified for there to be any future programs at all (Medicare/Medicaid/Social Security). It is a matter of simple math not ideology..
Doggone/GA
June 1st, 2011
10:13 am
“Entitlements in their current form have got to be reformed or modified for there to be any future programs at all (Medicare/Medicaid/Social Security). It is a matter of simple math not ideology”
Social Security is a fully funded system with it’s own revenue stream. It is not directly involved in the debt at all.
Soothsayer
June 1st, 2011
10:14 am
“Let’s just do nothing and leave Medicare exactly as it is. What’s a $30 trillion unfunded liability among friends anyway!”
Could you please post something that substantiates your claim of a $30 trillion unfunded liability?
1811/1801 - 0311/0317
June 1st, 2011
10:14 am
Jay:
I think you need to adopt a new rule.
No drinking before noon and no charts before noon.
What say ye?
Red
June 1st, 2011
10:14 am
This issue is not difficult to fix. A national levy, (gasp! I really did mean tax) on every financial market trade and post trade transaction that does not include deferred income (retirement funds) or physical delivery. (Fuel for airlines or cocoa to make Hershey bars)
Recon (2nd.and 3rd.)
June 1st, 2011
10:15 am
Democrats attempt to scare seniors on the implementation of a voucher system even though it wouldn’t effect anyone over age 55. The scam is that they try to sell government as the solution and paint the private insurance sector as evil. Take a look at how well the federal government has managed Social Security and Medicare as both are rapidly going broke and it tells any clear thinking individual that the Democrats aren’t capable of finding workable solutions.
J Wellington Wimpy
June 1st, 2011
10:16 am
industries it would be the equivalent of throwing a brick in the grand canyon as far as having an impact on the overall debt.
Only if the brick weighed 13K megatons.
I will glady pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today……….
Get Real
June 1st, 2011
10:16 am
Bosch….and how are those entitlement costs working out for the EU??
Mr_B
June 1st, 2011
10:16 am
Uncle Jed@10:06. Been there-done that. Didn’t work very well.
Get Real
June 1st, 2011
10:16 am
That has been recklessly borrowed from for the last 30 years so now when we are facing more revenue outflow than inflow it is going to have a limited shelf life if not modified.
Please get your head out of the sand…
Bosch
June 1st, 2011
10:16 am
“What perpetuating Medicare does is to prolong and extend government coercion and control over those who provide the care”
Except that isn’t even remotely true. The people who provide that care have very little to no input over the price of their services, which is why the system we have now does not in any way espouse free market principles.
More and more doctors are now working as salaried positions and no longer own their own practice and from this article I read yesterday, more and more are in favor of the new HC law.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/30/health/policy/30docs.html?smid=fb-nytimes&WT.mc_id=BU-SM-E-FB-SM-LIN-DST-053111-NYT-NA&WT.mc_ev
Mary Elizabeth
June 1st, 2011
10:17 am
Recon @ 9:53
“When Democrats intend to slash half a trillion dollars out of Medicare to fund the new Obamacare entitlement, they’re really trying to scam the public into believing that they’re the saviors of Medicare, when in reality they’re the ones destroying.”
——————————
Recon, In all due respect, the money Democrats are “slashing” from Medicare is from the Medicare Advantage program which subsidizes private insurance companies. Democrats are not destroying Medicare. They are the only party trying to preserve it. Obamacare and Medicare as we know it work together to secure medical insurance, which is not profit based with no governmental check and balance, for the American people in a cost effective way. They must work together.
Personal example. I have a 57 year old first cousin who has liver cancer. He was diagnosed terminal almost two years ago. Chemo has surprisingly helped him significantly. His employer fired him because of his condition. My cousin would pay, as a monthly premium, $200.+ as a private citizen on private health insurance with himself, alone. However, with his private health policy, along with his wife, the premium is $657. per month. That is too much for him to pay monthly, especially without work. His private insurance carrier will not let him drop his wife from his policy to bring it down to $200.+ a month. My cousin has decided not to fight any longer and to stop the chemo.
Bosch
June 1st, 2011
10:18 am
Get Real — well, I can tell you that those who live in the EU want to keep them — so for them, it seems to be working out well.
Granny Godzilla
June 1st, 2011
10:18 am
Get Real
a chart for you, hope you aren’t color blind
Mary Elizabeth
June 1st, 2011
10:19 am
Recon and others -
Read between the lines. It is the Republicans and their voucher system in Medicare – just like their voucher system for dismantling public education – who are trying to destroy Medicare as we know it. The Ryan plan should not even have the name Medicare associated with it. By 2022, those on Medicare would be paying more than 60% of their own medical expenses. Can you visualize how that will effect one financially with a catastrophic illness on limited retirement income? Most elderly, like my cousin, will just choose to die – perhaps 20 years before they might have with proper medical insurance. Is this the America you want? I don’t.
Normal
June 1st, 2011
10:19 am
Get Real,
Only when The GOP is willing to put everything on the table will I believe they are serious and not ideological.
Joe Mama
June 1st, 2011
10:21 am
Ragnar — “good morning, your fallacy is your assumption that market forces exist now. They don’t. The Ryan plan creates that which does not exist now – true market discipline, across the board.”
I’m afraid I don’t see that at all in the Ryan plan, and I don’t see the distinction you are apparently trying to make.
Perhaps you could explain to me the specific mechanisms that you believe acheive this aim, as well as how they would differ from the mechanisms that have already been in place for yours. I’d also appreciate it if you could show me where those provisions are explained in the Ryan plan.
Bosch
June 1st, 2011
10:21 am
“And what is wrong with taking care of your parents in old age anyway?”
Absolutely nothing — which is why I do it — but I have the luxury of having the space and time and income to do it — which, for many, are not an option.
Most people who do that have to quit their jobs as very old and elderly and infirmed people need 24/7 care — so you either have to do it yourself which means quitting your job, or paying someone to do it — which is VERY expensive.
cosby smith
June 1st, 2011
10:22 am
So we believe the CBO…they have not been correct about anything including their fix of Obama care which they have re – done to include cost out of the universe. If Ryan’s solution is not the answer, then what is as Medicare and Social Security are both broke. It is nice to demogog a proposal to try to fix a broke machine without having to offer another alternative. In the end, the machine stays broke.
J Wellington Wimpy
June 1st, 2011
10:23 am
Ryan is promoting a class system. He’s betting that the older americans (one class), will be appeased with his program because it’s not specifically targeting them; hence his birthday cut off dates. He’s also betting that the younger Americans, especially those 30 and under, with their air of invincibility and the “I’ll think about it later” mentality; won’t pay much attention to the overall blue print of his plan until it’t too late. Hopefully he’s wrong on both counts…….
I will glady pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today……….
Soothsayer
June 1st, 2011
10:23 am
Stealing from Social Security to Pay for Wars and Bailouts
Republicans regard Social Security as an “unfunded liability,” that is, a giveaway that is interfering with our war-making ability.
Alas, Social Security is an unfunded liability, because all the money working people put into it was stolen by Republicans and Democrats in order to pay for wars and bailouts for mega-rich bankers like Goldman Sachs.
What I am about to tell you might come as a shock, but it is the absolute truth, which you can verify for yourself by going online to the government’s annual OASDI and HI reports. According to the official 2010 Social Security reports, between 1984 and 2009 the American people contributed $2 trillion, that is $2,000 billion, more to Social Security and Medicare in payroll taxes than was paid out in benefits.
What happened to the surplus $2,000 billion, or $2,000,000,000,000.00
The government spent it.
Over the past quarter century, $2 trillion in Social Security and Medicare revenues have been used to finance wars and pork-barrel projects of the US government.
Depending on assumptions about population growth, income growth and other factors, Social Security continues to be in the black until after 2025 or 2035 under the “high cost” and “intermediate” assumptions and the current payroll tax rate of 15.3% based on the revenues paid in and the interest on those surplus revenues. Under the low cost scenario, Social Security (OASDI) will have produced surplus revenues of $31.6 trillion by 2085.
AmVet
June 1st, 2011
10:23 am
Brick in the Grand Canyon?
A horrible analogy.
For example, ethanol subsides alone are $6,000,000,000.00 per year.
Overall, the massive amount of corporate welfare amounts to hundreds of billions of dollars every single year.
And Jeff Immelt snuggles up to Obama, awaiting his next hand out…
mmm, mmm, mmm, Barack the Liar Obama - BEND OVER, Here comes the CHANGE!
June 1st, 2011
10:23 am
The part everyone is not talking about, what happens when YOUR Dr. opts out? Hmmmm…..Obama care?
Get Real
June 1st, 2011
10:24 am
Bosch…no doubt, but the money tree is almost bare….lots of new austerity measures happening that have the “womb to tomb” government addicts up in arms. I think the idea is a noble one, it is simply unsustainable and we are seeing that play out in Europe now….
josef nix
June 1st, 2011
10:24 am
DEL
Since you’re here..caught your comment on last night’s thread…would that more could think like you…thanks…
Peadawg
June 1st, 2011
10:24 am
“Only when The GOP is willing to put everything on the table will I believe they are serious and not ideological.” – Same goes for Democrats, Normal.
AmVet
June 1st, 2011
10:25 am
Get, and your grasp on scales of order, facts and analogies is reflective of using the Republican Book of Mathematics…
Mr_B
June 1st, 2011
10:25 am
Recon: Entitlement programs exist because they helped to ameliorate problems that we have already experienced. Medicare is in financial trouble because we as a nation have failed to do things: control the rise in medical spending and to actually pay for what we think we want out of Medicare through adequate funding.
Entitlements do need fixing; no argument. Fixing a flat tire doesn’t involve sending the car to the crusher.
Normal
June 1st, 2011
10:25 am
Peadawg,
Not sure of where you are going with that, but what part of “EVERYTHING” on the table ” don’t you understand?
Get Real
June 1st, 2011
10:26 am
AmVet
Do you prefer a “drop in the ocean”, the meaning is the same…
Get Real
June 1st, 2011
10:27 am
Normal
I agree more things should be on the table from both sides, however the math is still the same. Entitlement reform has got to happen in some shape or fashion as the status quo is simply unsustainable…
Doggone/GA
June 1st, 2011
10:27 am
“but the money tree is almost bare”
No, it isn’t. The money is there – but if you take tax increases OF ANY KIND off the table, then it’s not available to be used. But the time is coming when that option will no longer be tenable (sp?) – we as a people want certain services from our government, and we WILL have to start paying for them. And that means increasing taxes.
Bosch
June 1st, 2011
10:29 am
Get Real,
Personally I feel that the government needs to either piss or get off the pot — they need to pay for all, or pay for none and let the free market actually work. The system we have now is completely stupid.
They need to get out of the healthcare business totally and let the free market work, or they need to be the single payer and regulate the costs. I certainly do not care what they do, but one way needs to happen.
Mary Elizabeth
June 1st, 2011
10:30 am
Bosch @ 10:21
“Most people who do that have to quit their jobs as very old and elderly and infirmed people need 24/7 care — so you either have to do it yourself which means quitting your job, or paying someone to do it — which is VERY expensive.”
———————————————
My mother died with advanced Alzheimer’s. People have no idea what it would be like to care for someone in her condition for 10 years without support. The Republicans would also do away with Medicaid, which provides nursing care for a large number of Americans. Fortunately, my mother did not have to use Medicaid with her nursing care, but she did use Medicare, and it was advantageous when she was hospitalized at various points throughout her long, hard final journey.
John Birch
June 1st, 2011
10:30 am
Sooner or later the entitlement mentality will end and the malthusian doctrine will reinsert itself, hopefully before the mad max style appocalypse. Anyone notice home values down a third since their peak? this is not a temporary phenomenon, it is just a small slice of the future when horribly misdirected lieberalism is in charge. Hopefully, a few good wo/men will come forward and save us from the grannys and getalifes of the world who, unchecked, would rapidly turn the US into a third world nation where everyone shared equally in very, very little.
J Wellington Wimpy
June 1st, 2011
10:32 am
Democrats attempt to scare seniors on the implementation of a voucher system even though it wouldn’t effect anyone over age 55.
Like the republicans
trieddid with “Obamacare”?The scam is that they try to sell government as the solution and paint the private insurance sector as evil.
Your sentence is redundant. Anyone who has had to deal with an ongoing life threatening disease or illness either themselves, family members or loved ones, and had to deal with the insurance sector hassling with them over what they will and won’t cover, crying over being denied needed meds and treatment; already KNOW that the private sector is nothing more than an evil ravenous money hungry beast; sucking the money out of the marrow in our bones.
I would glad pay you Tuesday, for a hamburger today…
BlahBlahBlah
June 1st, 2011
10:32 am
Soothsayer, this is taken directly from page 234 of the 2011 annual report of the medicare board of trustees:
“From the 75-year budget perspective, the present value of the additional resources that would be needed to meet projected expenditures, at current-law levels for the three programs combined, is $33.8 trillion.
These resource needs would be in addition to the payroll taxes, benefit taxes, and premium payments scheduled under current law. As noted, the asset redemptions and SMI general revenue transfers represent formal budget commitments under current law, but no provision exists for covering the HI and OASDI trust fund deficits once assets are exhausted.
As discussed elsewhere in this report, there is a significant likelihood that the projected HI and SMI expenditures are substantially understated as a result of potentially impracticable elements of current law.”
In other words, $33.8 trillion is a lowball figure.
Bosch
June 1st, 2011
10:32 am
“we as a people want certain services from our government, and we WILL have to start paying for them. And that means increasing taxes.”
And it seems that a majority of the people want to keep Medicare and Medicaid. So, if I were in charge, I consider health care and access to it a right of being a citizen in this country, so if I were in charge, everyone would pay into the system in a form of a tax for the sole purpose of health care, and everyone would have it — and I, as king, would set the prices.
Doggone/GA
June 1st, 2011
10:33 am
“Same goes for Democrats”
And they have. Medicare improvements and cost control on the present system, tax increase, cuts in spending – it’s all on the table. It’s the Republicans who want to make it a game of “my way or the highway” We’ll have to wait this game of chicken out to see who caves first.
too little time
June 1st, 2011
10:34 am
If Republicans jam this down our throats the way Dems did Obamacare, I am going to start voting Democrat. The Heritage foundation, clearly a conservative group, has a more equitable plan for those of us who have already paid in huge sums to Medicare, but who will ultimately be hurt by Ryancare. By the time I am 70, I will have paid 91,000 into Medicare… $300,000 if you apply a 3% interest rate over the 50 years that I will have paid it. That would have paid for my health insurance for 15 years… and it is not likely that I would hit 85 years old. None of my parents/grandparents/great grandparents made it past 80. So the Republican plan is to hand me a voucher and free market with no guarantees that I will be able to get or afford coverage. Talk about a goat-screw.
Some people are stupid
June 1st, 2011
10:35 am
Recon (2nd.and 3rd.)
So who pays most of the cost of medicare advantage.
And by your argument, you should n’t have a problem with obamacare moving money from medicare advantage if you don’t have a problem with Ryans budget moving money from medicare. You are kinda arguing out of both sides of your mouth.
stands for decibels
June 1st, 2011
10:36 am
You are whining about the Ryan plan…. What is your alternative? What plan do you have….
here ya go.
http://cpc.grijalva.house.gov/index.cfm?sectionid=70
You can henceforth cease and desist with that special-ed/short-bus talking point.
Recon (2nd.and 3rd.)
June 1st, 2011
10:36 am
Mary Elizabeth,
First of all seniors who opt for Medicare Advantage can choose from a variety of plans that in most cases include a premium they pay along with the monthly Medicare deduction from their Social Security checks. These private insurance plans are far and away superior to standard Medicare only or supplemental plans like what is offered through the AARP. Implying that the federal government foots the whole bill isn’t accurate. The fact is that ObamaCare is removing half a trillion dollars from Medicare to help fund Obamacare. As for cancer I know a little bit about it. Chemo does not cure cancer of the liver. It only prolongs the inevitable. If lesions can’t be surgically excised then the patient is terminal. Typically, the decision to discontinue chemo therapy is the patients decision in concert with their doctors prognosis and has nothing to do with private insurance company decisions.
Granny Godzilla
June 1st, 2011
10:36 am
The Malthusian Doctrine?
(Thanks to Sister Mary John Ellen B.V.M…..)
What’s next a China-like one child policy?
What if the GOP succeeds in eliminating birth control for women?
andygrdzki
June 1st, 2011
10:37 am
ATTENTION LIBBERS:
You are whining about the Ryan plan…. What is your alternative? What plan do you have….
You people complain and do nothing or propose nothing? Let’s see the Democrat fix plan.. What is the plan?
I know play it safe, do nothing, and blame the other guy….. Typical
your plan to fix the problem…. tax the rich, tax corporations,
Oh, the heathcare plan is so great, Harry Reid got a partial exemption for Nevada… ”
The waivers in Pelosi’s district pertained to a different requirement in the health care law dealing with annual benefit limits. The latest set brings the total number of such exemptions since the law’s implementation to 1,372 nationwide. More than 3 million people are enrolled in plans affected by these waivers. WAY to go DEMS…. this plan was so great for the Country………lol..lol..lol…
Joe Mama
June 1st, 2011
10:37 am
Wimpy — “Anyone who has had to deal with an ongoing life threatening disease or illness either themselves, family members or loved ones, and had to deal with the insurance sector hassling with them over what they will and won’t cover, crying over being denied needed meds and treatment; already KNOW that the private sector is nothing more than an evil ravenous money hungry beast; sucking the money out of the marrow in our bones.”
I have dealt with a serious and life-threatening disease myself over the last several years. I can’t speak for anyone else, but my wife and I are thankful and fortunate to have excellent health coverage that did a *far* better job of both covering and paying for my treatment than we had expected.
We’ve compared our coverage (I’m on her employer-sponsored policy) to what we would have had if I’d stayed on my employer’s coverage plan when they cut benefits and coverage a couple of years ago; let’s just say that there’s a good chance I wouldn’t be above ground today if I had stayed put.
Kaiser Permanente FTW.
Doggone/GA
June 1st, 2011
10:37 am
“Anyone notice home values down a third since their peak?”
And as far as I’m concerned they need to come down even further. I’ve been watching homes go up all around me that couldn’t possibly have cost more than maybe MAYBE $80,000 to build be sold for upward of 3 MILLION or even more. When I see older houses sold for several hundred thousand that couldn’t have cost even $20,0000 or $30,000 to build when they were new…something is wrong with what constitutes “VALUE” in the housing market.
godless heathen
June 1st, 2011
10:38 am
Down here in my hood, scamming Medicare is the # 2 employer (right behind dope dealing and just ahead of the sex trade). NTM mention all the the doctors, hospitals, and clinics sucking off the Medicare teat. As long as a you have a program that operates by passing out other peoples’ money, it will not change.
Disgusted
June 1st, 2011
10:38 am
They need to get out of the healthcare business totally and let the free market work, or they need to be the single payer and regulate the costs. I certainly do not care what they do, but one way needs to happen.
Yes, that free market really works in healthcare. That’s why I’m writing a check for $5,600 to a nursing home this month—an increase from the merely $4,200 I’ve been paying as a Medicare co-pay. And once I bring my wife home, I’ll be out of pocket around $1,800 per month to pay for diaper-changing and other services for my disabled wife—that on top of the Medicare premium and the private health insurance premium I’m paying monthly.
This healthcare system is badly broken. We need single payer. And we need to get away from the comfortable feeling that market competition will cure anything about it. You try laying out that kind of money for care for a stroke victim, even though you’re insured by two plans, and see how well you do.
Joe Mama
June 1st, 2011
10:39 am
Andy — “You are whining about the Ryan plan…. What is your alternative? What plan do you have….
You people complain and do nothing or propose nothing? Let’s see the Democrat fix plan.. What is the plan?
I know play it safe, do nothing, and blame the other guy….. Typical”
Um, y’all spent most of 2010 *screaming at us* about the plan we wanted. And it was so gutted that it now bears no resemblance to what we were trying to put in place.
We had a plan, and y’all pitched a fit about it. Now you’re acting like we’ve never put anything on the table.
Typical.
Normal
June 1st, 2011
10:40 am
Get Real,
For what it’s worth, I do see Medicare reform in the future, but I see it in the way it is run, payments made, costs, billing reduced, etc. I do not foresee the necessity for totally eliminating it. It is a good program that could be made leaner to work more effectively.
Bosch
June 1st, 2011
10:40 am
“People have no idea what it would be like to care for someone in her condition for 10 years without support.”
Mary Elizabeth,
Of course they don’t — because most people of means have insurance, but we are seeing more and more without it and as these people get older, and need more help, they will either go without, or be cared for by younger relatives or friends (if they are so lucky to have any willing).
Recon (2nd.and 3rd.)
June 1st, 2011
10:41 am
J. Wimpey, Been there, done that. Your 10:32 statement about private insurance companies is at best an extreme exaggeration.
Peadawg
June 1st, 2011
10:42 am
“Not sure of where you are going with that, but what part of “EVERYTHING” on the table ” don’t you understand?” – All of it actually. It seems the Republicans are for entitlement reform but not defense cuts/tax increase. Democrats are for defense cuts/tax increase but not entitlement reform. If I missed a proposal with regards to the debt ceiling/spending cuts, please let me know.
Bosch
June 1st, 2011
10:42 am
Disgusted,
“Yes, that free market really works in healthcare.”
The system we have is the exact opposite of a “free market” system. The supplier of services and the customer do not set the price. It is done by a third party.
Soothsayer
June 1st, 2011
10:44 am
Blah,Blah,Blah: “Medicare’s HI Trust Fund has a long-range actuarial deficit equal to 0.79 percent of taxable payroll under the intermediate assumptions, larger than the 0.66 percent figure reported last year. HI Trust Fund balances are lower due to higher projected expenditures and lower levels of taxable payroll in 2010 and throughout the projection period. The HI Trust Fund exhaustion date moves closer by five years from 2029 to 2024. Actual HI taxable earnings in 2010 were considerably lower than previously estimated, and the projected level of real (inflation-adjusted) HI taxes remains lower than in last year’s report, although the difference narrows throughout the current decade as the economy recovers from the recent recession.”
http://www.ssa.gov/oact/trsum/index.html
This a less-than-one-percent increase to keep Medicare solvent. Seems like a good deal to me.
John Birch
June 1st, 2011
10:44 am
God has not granted you the best health care in the world for your entire life as some kind of birthright. In reality we are only entitled to whatever healthcare we can afford. If you wish to bankrupt yourself ensuring your terminal aged parent has the highest quality of life possible, that is your right. But you are not entitled to bankrupt me or this country for that desire.
Bosch
June 1st, 2011
10:46 am
Disgusted,
And kudos to you for taking care of your wife — you know how hard it is — do you honestly think any of the wingnuts here would have the fortitude to do so? Do you think their attitude would be so smug if they had to quit their job and do what you do? I certainly don’t.
@@
June 1st, 2011
10:47 am
And they say Democrats haven’t come up with a plan, but yet keep screaming “Obamacare!” — I wonder if they ever tire of talking out two sides of their mouths? That would exhaust me.
Ryan’s is a budget plan. The Democrats haven’t adopted one (a budget) plan.
Doggone/GA
June 1st, 2011
10:49 am
“God has not granted you the best health care in the world for your entire life as some kind of birthright”
God has not granted us ANY rights. And no one has said healthcare is a BIRTHright. We give ourselves rights and those can, and do, change over time. It is now TIME to include affordable healthcare as one of those rights.
Yahtzee
June 1st, 2011
10:51 am
Bosch,
So healthcare is a right? Does that make any form of business a right? Is having internet access a right?
Soothsayer
June 1st, 2011
10:51 am
Jay, this server is about as crazy as I’ve ever seen!
Mr_B
June 1st, 2011
10:51 am
Josef: Good morning sir!
Bosch: Many if not most of the problems we have now with medical costs are the result of the fixation we have with keeping the government out of providing rather than purchising medical services.
Lets educate about a million or so doctors on the government dime, and then pay ‘em about what a high school principal makes. Let them work for the government for about thirty years and then go do their own thing. Get the profit motive out of health care except for cosmetics.
Left wing management
June 1st, 2011
10:52 am
Bosch, Mary Elizabeth: “People have no idea what it would be like to care for someone in her condition for 10 years without support.”
Remember back in the quaint old days when the right wing were actually conservatives, and not movement radicals? Back in those days they actually believed in Edmund Burke’s wisdom that we never know what hardships and troubles will be unleashed by abolishing existing institutions in advance, because those institutions are embedded in the fabric of our culture to the point that they are effectively invisible. SS and Medicare are great examples. This is why social engineering – according to old school conservative thinking – should move very slowly and cautiously, and with a stubborn skepticism about unintended consequences. In a moment of weakness, Newt Gingrich actually paid homage to that old conservative wisdom, exposing his paleo-roots, when he correctly characterized RyanCare as “right wing social engineering”. To think that Gingrich was then lambasted for that remark is an index of the radicalization that has occurred on the right in the past decade.
Bosch
June 1st, 2011
10:53 am
“God has not granted you the best health care in the world for your entire life as some kind of birthright.”
Maybe not God, but our Founding Fathers sure did when they wrote:
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.
Mary Elizabeth
June 1st, 2011
10:56 am
Debbie Do Right from earlier -
Rush Limbaugh’s listening base has dropped by 30% according to reports out yesterday; Sean Hannity’s has dropped by more than 20%. Perhaps, many are realizing that those who supposedly are speaking for the American underdog “silent majority” are, in reality, simply using their talents to make millions of dollars for themselves.
Yesterday, on the Ed Show on MSNBC, I learned that Fox News CEO, Roger Ailes, immediately under Rupert Murdock, worked for Richard Nixon in the late 1960s and has had a hard right agenda as his mission since 1968. Fox News, it was stated by that commentator, is not only the “arm” of the Republican party, but perhaps even its “torso.” Evidently, the very talking points given by Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell each day are, also, spoken soon thereafter by Sean Hannity. I have suspected that for years. I am glad some of the stealthiness of what has been going on for 35 years is coming to light, thanks to the undemocratic actions of some hard line Republican governors and Ryan’s Medicare plan to dismantle Medicare, as we know it.
To all working and middle class voters (of all races and ethnic groups, including white Southerners), you have a home, and that home is the Democratic Party. Come back to it and vote your own best interests. Republicans can continue to look after their corporate interests and the pocketbooks of the very wealthy. Democrats need your support.
@@
June 1st, 2011
10:56 am
If wealth brings happiness, then pursue it…don’t look for others to provide it.
Joe Mama
June 1st, 2011
10:58 am
Doggone — “God has not granted us ANY rights. And no one has said healthcare is a BIRTHright. We give ourselves rights and those can, and do, change over time. It is now TIME to include affordable healthcare as one of those rights.”
This.
Common Sense
June 1st, 2011
10:58 am
if the premiums collected do not cover the costs incurred, you are being dishonest if you are calling it insurance.
ATF
June 1st, 2011
10:58 am
What is such a surprise to me is that people think the answer lies in health insurance. All Ryan does is take medicare and turn it over to the health insurance industry. Health insurance has failed, in 50 years of being the gate keeper of the health care industry, to create a system that is accessible and cost effective. The health insurance industry cannot rationalize costs.
We can do better with government run Medicare. But we can do best with a single payor, mandated system of health care. What we can’t do is keep believing that health insurance is the answer.
Get Real
June 1st, 2011
11:01 am
Normal…..I think we both agree that the current state is not gonna get it! How we modify, we may disagree about but we have not gotten to that bridge yet…but we are clearly running out of road..
Joe Mama
June 1st, 2011
11:01 am
Common Sense — “if the premiums collected do not cover the costs incurred, you are being dishonest if you are calling it insurance.”
Given the profits and dividends of the large HMOs and the jumbo salary and benefits packages of their CEOs, I don’t think we have any problem there. It’s a dead cert that they’re pulling in enough cash to pay claims.
Yahtzee
June 1st, 2011
11:01 am
Mary Elizabeth,
Your ignorance blinds you if you think the Democratic Party is clean as a whistle and is “looking out” for your best interest over corporate interests. Look up who the top donors were for political contributions in the last election and I think you’ll see the D’s are actually more influenced than the R’s from corporate interests.
Oh, and if you think that ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN, and MSNBC don’t get their talking points from the Administration, then you are living in a fantasy world.
Left wing management
June 1st, 2011
11:02 am
To John Birch: “d has not granted you the best health care in the world for your entire life as some kind of birth”
Well said, Doggone/GA.
Rights are not GIVEN by GOD. They are DEMANDED through social solidarity.
There are no rights in the clouds. Only those that are fought for and defended from attack here on earth. And as it happens, they almost all come from the LEFT.
Eight hour workdays and weekends, child labor laws.
Those laws didn’t come from an old man in the sky, but from the blood and sweat of LEFTISTs in generations past. So you’d do well to pay your respects to those leftists who fought for the rights that YOU now take for granted (and something tells me you benefit from them quite a bit, too).
See?
ty webb
June 1st, 2011
11:05 am
“Yesterday, on the Ed Show on MSNBC, I learned…”
and there’s your sign.
BADA BING
June 1st, 2011
11:06 am
Wednesday ramblings……..Joplin has already begun debris removal. Hey NO, stand back and watch how hard working people rebuild a city.
Doggone/GA
June 1st, 2011
11:06 am
Bosch – “endowed” is not the same thing as “given”!
Benjamin
June 1st, 2011
11:07 am
This is the same CBO that stated that Obama-care would save money.
Not a very reliable source there, Jay
andygrdzki
June 1st, 2011
11:10 am
Joe Mama,,, at 10:39 am… Please tell us what that plan was…. Please give me a link, I would like to read it……
Bosch @ 10:46 am… Every month we send a check to support my mother-in-law’s care….. And for her final days, we built a mother-in-laws suite on the house, with handicapped accessories….. Don’t make generalizations when you don’t have the information…. Oh that’s right, we are from a Red State, we take care of family, we don’t lean on the Govt to do so…….
Did not see any libbers respond to all the heathcare waivers…… Cat got your tongue…… From USA Today; “The biggest single waiver, for 351,000 people, was for the United Federation of Teachers Welfare Fund, a New York union providing coverage for city teachers. The waivers are effective for a year and were granted to insurance plans and companies that showed that employee premiums would rise or that workers would lose coverage without them, Santillo says.”
Go Union…… Yuppers, it is a “Welfare Fund”…….. LOL..LOL..LOL…
Left wing management
June 1st, 2011
11:10 am
ty webb: “Yesterday, on the Ed Show on MSNBC, I learned … / and there’s your sign.”
It’s a sign of objectivity and an honest adherence to truth.
Got a problem with it?
ty webb
June 1st, 2011
11:11 am
“Got a problem with it?’
No, not really. Atleast it gives us all an idea of where this person gets all of their “thoughts” from.
Left wing management
June 1st, 2011
11:12 am
Even the true statements that are said on FOX News are lies. And needless to say the flat out lies and distortions you hear there are lies too. So on balance, FOX is a den of liars. Like a giant tumor in the belly of an empire that’s already tired and strapped for ideas.
MSNBC?
They’re pretty much fair – and balanced.
Bosch
June 1st, 2011
11:14 am
Doggone,
Oh, you know what I mean.
And I also agree with Left wing management — well said.
Andy,
Good for you — I’m glad you could afford to do so — many people can’t.
Granny Godzilla
June 1st, 2011
11:15 am
andy
Did not see any libbers respond to all the heathcare waivers?
we libbers responded to it immediately after Fox News started ginning up this latest Faux Controversy and handily debunked the nonsense
What don’t you have the personal responsibility to keep up?
Bosch
June 1st, 2011
11:16 am
Doggone,
And if you look at the literal meaning of the word “endow” it means to supply income for or establish a fund for a particular reason…so we could argue that if all men are created equal, then all men (and I do include women here too) get sick. And since we are endowed by our Creator (again, one could argue this is the government) to have inalienable rights — life being one of them — that they should provide payment for healthcare.
josef nix
June 1st, 2011
11:16 am
Okey-dokey, going to Sunday School for a minute
G-d created heaven and earth. H- gave man dominion over the earth, said here you go, Bud, make of it what you will and -’ll be watching and making notes…see you on judgment day…
Doggone/GA
June 1st, 2011
11:18 am
“Not a very reliable source there”
Certainly they’re reliable, but you DO have to understand that they do their projections based on the information they are given. They don’t go out and gather that information for themselves. They made projections based on the data that RYAN gave them, and came to the conclusions – based on that information – that Jay outlined.
Normal
June 1st, 2011
11:18 am
Get Real,
I f the debt ceiling is not raised because of the Republicans refusal to move on it unless medicare is cut and taxes aren’t raised…that road will run out a lot sooner than you think…in global proportions.
I don’t think we, as a nation, can get away with telling the world we will no longer be able to pay of debts.
Why The Republican party has this memming-esque stance about Medicare is beyond my brain. NY-26 should have proven to them that they made a big boo boo and regrouped. All President Obama has to do now is say, “No taxes on the table, no Medicare on the table”. Congress has to raise the Debt Ceiling, not the President. The failure to do so will fall on Congress and most especially the House.
You explain it to me. I have no clue.
josef nix
June 1st, 2011
11:19 am
Sooth
The server? Fatwah the b*tch! ‘Bout to wear me out…
Normal
June 1st, 2011
11:20 am
Josef,
@1116,
..and the deaf will not see…or something like that…
BlahBlahBlah
June 1st, 2011
11:24 am
Soothsayer, HI is only one portion of Medicare. You have convienently ignored the rest of it (like SMI) which is where most of the $33 trillion appears to reside.
BlahBlahBlah
June 1st, 2011
11:25 am
Hey Rip-Off, I hear lots of folks like you say stuff like “I paid into it, I deserve it when it’s time to retire.”
OK. I can accept that. But once you’ve gotten out everything you put in (which is what happens quite often) are you OK with getting ZERO for the rest of your life from that moment forward?
Rip-Off
June 1st, 2011
11:25 am
all of that additional cost and then some would come out of the pockets of senior citizens and into the pockets of the insurance industry.
In other words everyone born from 1956 (until another fraudulent scheme is introduced) will be affected by these changes. You can count the Generation Jones’, Generation X and Generation Y to be a part of this rip off. I am a part of Generation Jones and I have worked hard to build up my retirement. I am aware that social security probably will not be available even though I have paid into it since I was 16. Republicans do you have no shame. We (working class) are suffering “enough already”! Democrats had better show their muscles on this one or they will loose even more seats in the House and Senate next election cycle.
godless heathen
June 1st, 2011
11:26 am
So far today we have learned that all conservatives hate their parents and refuse to provide them with basic needs and that all statements on Fox News are lies.
Glad I stopped by.
Joe Mama
June 1st, 2011
11:26 am
Andy — “Joe Mama,,, at 10:39 am… Please tell us what that plan was…. Please give me a link, I would like to read it……”
Oh, you didn’t read it? Then why was everyone on your side so dead-set against it?
That whole ‘nobody’s read that monster of a bill’ argument cuts both ways.
“Did not see any libbers respond to all the heathcare waivers…… Cat got your tongue……”
Nope. We’re all marveling at how *you* haven’t gotten the message yet.
http://assets.bizjournals.com/sanfrancisco/blog/2011/05/pelosi-health-waiver-Obamacare.html?page=all
Never let the facts get in the way of a good rant, huh, Andy?
BADA BING
June 1st, 2011
11:27 am
Jay is gone for a while? Hey, Jay’s substitute, he said that we could hold this blog outside today. And, we have a free period to do whatever we want. Honest.
josef nix
June 1st, 2011
11:27 am
Normal
As Granddaddy always said, it’s the blind leading the deaf…
Peadawg
June 1st, 2011
11:29 am
“Certainly they’re reliable, but you DO have to understand that they do their projections based on the information they are given. They don’t go out and gather that information for themselves.”
That’s exactly why the CBO isn’t reliable when it comes to predictions. The data that is given to them may be distorted.
Get Real
June 1st, 2011
11:29 am
Normal
I wish I could explain but I cannot, it is truly a game of chicken at this point and we all stand to lose. The Republicans need to yield a bit more and I would say the democrats do as well. I do believe that we cannot simply have a clean vote on raising the debt ceiling without an agreement on “meaning” spending cuts…promises to do something later will NEVER EVER come to fruition…
Mary Elizabeth
June 1st, 2011
11:31 am
Yahtzee @ 11:01,
I am not blind to the fact that the Democratic Party is not a perfect party. But I do see, unequivocally, that between the two choices I realistically have (Republican or Democratic), that the Democratic Party is more on the side of the average Americans than is the Republican Party.
Don’t kid yourself, anyone. There is no way that the present day Republicans are going to forgo the Ryan Medicare Plan, even if it is a political albatross for them. And the reason? It is now or never for them.
Republicans, I believe, have been setting up this day of reckoning of what type of America we will have into our future since the days of FDR’s when FDR created safety nets for all Americans, and Republicans have, especially, been hot on the pursuit of “every man and woman for him/herself” and “killing the beast of government” since the 1970s. That pursuit has been underwritten financially by well known billionaires and many others of corporate interests – including healthcare corporate interests. Look into who funded the famous “swift boat” ads against John Kerry so that he, (and his Democratic values) never became president.
The 2012 presidential election will be a pivotal one. That is why I lend my voice in support of Barack Obama. It is not simply that I am well attuned to his worldview; it is also because I do not want the type of America that has been stealthily being created since the 1970s to continue into our future. We are better than that. We should be all working together for our common interests not “every man and woman for him/herself.” If America is to be a role model for the world, is that what you want American’s theme song to be? I don’t. I much prefer the theme song of MLKJr, John and Robert Kennedy, and FDR. And yes, Yahtzee, I am aware that Democrats have corporate interests and corporate contributors, too.
However, as Americans all, we have a well-defined philosophical/political choice given us, going into our future as Americans. I am praying that Americans will see through the hidden agendas and slogans of the Republican Party of the past few decades and will choose, instead, to be all that America was designed to be. And that is more than simply a label of Republican or the Democratic Party. However, to me, right now in America’s history, the Democratic Party better carries that banner of goodwill toward all and the inclusiveness that is inherently American, i.e. “We believe that all men are created equal. . .”
Jimmy62
June 1st, 2011
11:31 am
In other words, Jay thinks we should pay for everyone’s health care no matter what even if we don’t have the money to do it. And the only way to do that is to force medical practitioners to work for less money than they would otherwise choose to. That’s enslavement.
You can’t get around it, the only way to provide medical care to everyone who can’t afford it on their own is to virtually enslave doctors, nurses, and providers of medical equipment and drugs. Or steal trillions from people who earned it. And in that case, our society would basically give up any sembleance of protection of private property.
But that’s what Jay wants. Taking care of people who cannot take care of themselves take precedence over private property and freedom. If you’re cool with that, great. I’m not, and neither were the founding fathers, nor all the immigrants who fled from oppressive countries because they heard that in the US if you own something it is yours and the government can’t just seize it at whim. But not in Jay’s America. In Jay’s America your property is only yours as long as Jay and other enlightened folk have decided you can keep it. But if they decide someone else needs it, they are happy to take it, private property laws be damned.
Deny it all you want, but your policies are anti-freedom. You may be cool with that, I am not.
Peadawg
June 1st, 2011
11:33 am
If Ryan doesn’t like the projection, based on the bill he proposed, maybe he needs to give the CBO better numbers to get the projection to come out better. – Fixed it.
Which is what Obama did with his health care bill. If you honestly think that bill saves money, damn you’re gullible.
Doggone/GA
June 1st, 2011
11:33 am
“That’s exactly why the CBO isn’t reliable when it comes to predictions. The data that is given to them may be distorted”
Sure. No argument there. If a someone in Congress wants an accurate projection, they need to provide accurate information. If Ryan doesn’t like the projection, based on the bill he proposed, maybe he needs to rewrite the bill to get the projection to come out better.
Mighy Righty
June 1st, 2011
11:33 am
And the alternative is? The Democrat solution is? Oh that’s right. they don’t a plan. We can argue about a solution, but Medicare is not going to remain as is.
mm
June 1st, 2011
11:35 am
“What I don’t seem to see is any Democrat plan?”
Hey Einstein, it was voted down last week. Close your ears and open your eyes.
Doggone/GA
June 1st, 2011
11:35 am
“Oh that’s right. they don’t a plan”
Already been passed by Congress and signed by the President
Joe Mama
June 1st, 2011
11:37 am
jimmy62 — “You can’t get around it, the only way to provide medical care to everyone who can’t afford it on their own is to virtually enslave doctors, nurses, and providers of medical equipment and drugs. Or steal trillions from people who earned it. And in that case, our society would basically give up any sembleance of protection of private property.”
Yes, because this is EXACTLY how it works in every other country with socialized medicine. The hardworking wealthy of the United Kingdom have been raped and lie bleeding in the street. The German government has directed soldiers of the Bundeswehr to stand over doctors and nurses with whips and truncheons, forcing them to work 20-hour days without even an opportunity to eat a meager meal. So deep is the misery of French medical professionals that most, despondent of ever being free again, soil themselves where they stand.
“Deny it all you want, but your policies are anti-freedom. You may be cool with that, I am not.”
Purple prose much, jimmy?
andygrdzki
June 1st, 2011
11:39 am
Granny: Go to: http://www.hhs.gov/asl/testify/2011/03/t20110315a.html Talks about the waivers…. Look at other sites as well about the number of waivers…. You should keep your eyes open……
Granny, did you see my most,,,, from USA Today, and I quoted it……. So not from Fox….
Doggone/GA
June 1st, 2011
11:41 am
“Talks about the waivers”
How about we talk about TEMPORARY waivers instead? Truth instead of distortion. Try it somtime, you MIGHT actually like it.
Left wing management
June 1st, 2011
11:43 am
Misty Fyed: “What I don’t seem to see is any Democrat plan”
I’m with Nancy Pelosi on this one:
We have a plan. It’s called Medicare.
godless heathen
June 1st, 2011
11:43 am
In other news, the number of limosines in the Federal Government fleet has risen from 238 in FY 2008 to 412 in FY 2010.
Tell me again that Americans need to pay more taxes.
Mary Elizabeth
June 1st, 2011
11:46 am
From the Lawrence O’Donnell’s Show, a video clip entitled “Democracy for Sale” about an organization formed in 1973, called ALEC, for those who missed my first posting of it:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/43070587#43070587
——————————————————————
And, for those who missed the video clip entitled, “The GOP’s War on Medicare,” when I first posted it, see below:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgQnhhjou5I
Gone for the afternoon.
Mighy Righty
June 1st, 2011
11:46 am
Left wing management
June 1st, 2011
11:02 am
Today’s subject is Medicare, a George Bush right wing program. By the way, as of this moment, the only reduction in Medicare and Social Security, has been by the current resident in the White House.
Get Real
June 1st, 2011
11:46 am
Doggone/GA
If you think Obamacare is the answer than there is not a lot that can be said, the assumptions and gimmicks that were provided to the CBO in order to score the legislation were way over the top.
I scrutinize everything; it is my nature and serves me well in my job. I do not simply nod my head and swallow it whole like a lap dog.
I believe the democrats heart was in the right place but there are going to be so many unintended consequences of ObamaCare in its current form the fallout of which we are only just beginning to see…
Mr_B
June 1st, 2011
11:47 am
Jimmy62: Sorry, but that’s a false dilemma; asserting that there are only two options open when in fact there are multiple options available. For instance, a taxpayer-funded, government-run health care system could exist side by side with a fee-for-service privately paid system. If the privately funded system can’t compete, well, that’s how markets work.
josef nix
June 1st, 2011
11:49 am
“Lies and distortions…” The politicians’ stock in trade. Democrats or Republicans? Just more blabber from Paracelsus’ two wh*res discussing chastity. Time to leave Belle Watlings and come up with an alternative. A pox on both their houses….
Mighy Righty
June 1st, 2011
11:49 am
Doggone/GA
June 1st, 2011
11:35 am
“Oh that’s right. they don’t a plan”
Already been passed by Congress and signed by the President
Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. There is no Democrat plan to save Medicare.
J. Bass
June 1st, 2011
11:49 am
The CBO conclusion, reverberating nationwide, is that this will force seniors to “bear a much larger share of their health costs,” and that it “would be particularly challenging for elderly people with less savings and lower income.”
The CBO authors admit their analysis is “stylized.” Deceptive is more like it.
After 2022, competing private plans are likely to control costs better than government-run Medicare, so the inflation-adjusted premium paid by government should be adequate. In the Medicare Part D drug benefit, competition between competing private drug plans has kept costs below what was predicted—nearly a first for a government program. A 2008 study from the National Bureau of Economic Research also demonstrated that regions with competing Medicare Advantage Plans have lower health-care costs because of the impact of competition.
Alert readers will recall that the competition among drug providers drove Democrats nuts at the time. They wanted the Feds to dictate drug prices, which would eventually have lead to fewer new drugs.
The competitive aspect did create some confusion at first as seniors had to choose between various plans. This was derided as too complicated, because, y’know, seniors are just too stupid to shop smartly.
The Ryan proposal also includes a $7,800 annual medical savings account to help low-income seniors with out-of-pocket costs. Amazingly, the CBO analysts exclude this $7,800 benefit from their calculations. Their warning about low-income seniors suffering is baseless.
Doggone/GA
June 1st, 2011
11:50 am
“If you think Obamacare is the answer”
I don’t. I think it’s AN answer. *I* think THE answer is single-payer, but Congress-care is better than what we now have. It’s a start.
RB from Gwinnett
June 1st, 2011
11:51 am
Geez. More reliance on CBO numbers. We may as well let them predict the number of major hurricanes that will hit US shores this year too so the global warming fanatics can have a hissy over it. Their projections are about as reliable as the “experts” at that too.
And what exactly is Obama’s plan to deal with Medicare, btw?
Peadawg
June 1st, 2011
11:52 am
“In other news, the number of limosines in the Federal Government fleet has risen from 238 in FY 2008 to 412 in FY 2010.
Tell me again that Americans need to pay more taxes.”
If that’s true, then that’s the reason Americans are hesitant when it comes to raising taxes. We pay for stoopid sh*t like this.
getalife
June 1st, 2011
11:53 am
“Donald Trump: Paul Ryan Budget A ‘Death Wish’ For Republicans” AOL
Make it happen.
ken
June 1st, 2011
11:53 am
I presume your meetings are geared to do anything to help the Democrats. Bash Sara tomorrow.
Mary Elizabeth
June 1st, 2011
11:53 am
Doggone/GA
I agree that single-payer (plus Medicare as we know it) is THE answer so that every American has the right to medical care, just as they have the right to public education. See below how effective single payer works in Vermont. (And for the poster who earlier supported Medicare Advantage (private insurance subsidized plan supported by Republicans), you are looking at that plan only at point in time. Over time, the rates will increase significantly, year by year, as they have already proven to have done.)
The video below is entitled, “Single Payer: Vermont Leading the Nation Away From Private Insurance Scam!”.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJLvL1JReN4&feature=related
Get Real
June 1st, 2011
11:53 am
Doggone/GA
I guess we will agree to disagree, doing something is not always better than doing nothing. Not if the something really exacerbates the problem and/or creates a lot of new unintended consequences….specific to single payer, we are seeing that played out in Europe now as well as all the other government owned programs..
Normal
June 1st, 2011
11:54 am
Get Real
June 1st, 2011
11:29 am
I agree totally…scary, ain’t it?
getalife
June 1st, 2011
11:54 am
Josef,
Syria is under the gun.
Hillary let them know yesterday.
Yemen and Syria will get ugly.
This is a ongoing revolution.
Crazy times.
josef nix
June 1st, 2011
11:55 am
getalife
If you’re here…Syria?
Joe Mama
June 1st, 2011
11:55 am
Food for thought on both sides:
http://www.tnr.com/article/economy/magazine/88631/american-medicine-health-care-costs?page=0,0&passthru=ZDY1YmFhOTg2YzhmMWE2Njg2MTMzNmM1OWUyYmUyMDQ
Doggone/GA
June 1st, 2011
11:55 am
“There is no Democrat plan to save Medicare.”
Certainly there is. Healthcare reform is a step. When we have single-payer we won’t need Medicare or Medicaid at all. Until then, they have proposed – variously – increasing the payroll deduction, and reforming Medicare Advantage. Just because you CHOOSE not to see the reforms suggested doesn’t mean they don’t exist.
stands for decibels
June 1st, 2011
11:58 am
There is no Democrat plan to save Medicare.
and by “save” the goopers mean “destroy.”
and you’re right, the Dems don’t actually have a plan (yet, give the DLC/blue dogs time) to destroy it.
La Migra
June 1st, 2011
11:59 am
Keep on voting for republicans. They will take care of granny..
Left wing management
June 1st, 2011
11:59 am
Jimmy62: “You can’t get around it, the only way to provide medical care to everyone who can’t afford it on their own is to virtually enslave doctors, nurses, and providers of medical equipment and drugs. Or steal trillions from people who earned it. And in that case, our society would basically give up any sembleance of protection of private property.”
You could barely see my head anymore for all the used tissue paper piled up that I had to use to wipe my tears and blow my nose after reading Jimmy’s sob story. It was just tragic beyond belief.
Booooo hoooooo hooooooooooo. I’m soooooo sorry for those p’poooooooor medical service industry workers who’re faced with virtual enslavement! The gravy train of endless customers ensured by Obama’s health reform just ISN’T enough! And maybe there are medical tech workers who’ll have to settle for 6 figures salaries in the 100 k range instead of 200? Poor babiessssss!
Yet something tells me your ’sympathy’ with the ‘enslavement’ of workers doesn’t extent to those public workers whose rights to collective bargaining for wages, benefits, working conditions is currently under attack by your side, does it?
ty webb
June 1st, 2011
12:00 pm
“In other news, the number of limosines in the Federal Government fleet has risen from 238 in FY 2008 to 412 in FY 2010.”
yeah, it obama’s popular “cars for czars” program.
jconservative
June 1st, 2011
12:00 pm
The obvious compromise is to bring the Medicare eligibility age, currently 65, in line with the Social Security eligibility age, currently 67.
This would have the effect of slowing down the number of people who take Social Security early at age 65 and give Social Security a break. And the two year delay would give Medicare the break it needs for the next 20 years.
But the bottom line is that the government over the last 50 years has borrowed the Social Security and Medicare Trust funds and Ryan does not want to pay that back, His cover letter when he released his plan says that in plain English. He knows that to pay it back taxes must be raised. And he does not want to raise taxes for any reason.
We are where we are. The problem will be resolved by a compromise. But the time is not yet ripe for a compromise.
La Migra
June 1st, 2011
12:02 pm
why does’nt Paul Ryan opt out of his Govt paid for Health ins. Oh because its free.. losers….
josef nix
June 1st, 2011
12:05 pm
getalife
I was listening to Sister Hillary…not very much clarity…personally, and just a speculation, but I think we’ve probably assigned that one to Brother Bibi…
BTW
In case you missed it…one of the most popular names in free Libya for newborn baby girls? Susan for Sister Rice…kinda nice to hear as an American, isn’t it?
stands for decibels
June 1st, 2011
12:05 pm
The obvious compromise is to bring the Medicare eligibility age, currently 65, in line with the Social Security eligibility age, currently 67.
This would have the effect of slowing down the number of people who take Social Security early at age 65 and give Social Security a break
Timber!
(That crashing sound you hear is all the private businesses dumping the “dead wood” on their payroll.)
Peadawg
June 1st, 2011
12:06 pm
“There is no Democrat plan to save Medicare.
and by “save” the goopers mean “destroy.”
and you’re right, the Dems don’t actually have a plan (yet, give the DLC/blue dogs time) to destroy it.”
No. Democrats want to keep it the way it is b/c it’s all fine and dandy. Nope…everything’s fine w/ Medicare paying out more than it receives…nothing to see here.
You can save Medicare w/out destroying it…just waiting for the Democrat’s proposal. But all we get is fear mongering.
@@
June 1st, 2011
12:06 pm
This’ll be interesting.
The White House is stepping up pressure on Republicans to raise the debt limit.
After Obama meets Republican congressman on Wednesday, Geithner will head to Capitol Hill on Thursday to hold talks with Republican freshmen — a group of first-term lawmakers who won dozens of seats in last year’s congressional elections on promises to cut spending.
Let’s see if the new Tea Party members offer Geithner one lump or two.
Get Real
June 1st, 2011
12:09 pm
Normal
LOL, it is a bit scary but an accord can usually happen when rational discussion supplants ideological hysterics…
Joe Mama
June 1st, 2011
12:09 pm
jconservative — “The obvious compromise is to bring the Medicare eligibility age, currently 65, in line with the Social Security eligibility age, currently 67.”
I could get behind this, provided there’s no more than a *modest* decrease in benefits as well. Frankly, I think I could be persuaded to push the eligibility ages to 68, 69 or even 70, again, provided there was no more than a small decrease in benefits.
“This would have the effect of slowing down the number of people who take Social Security early at age 65 and give Social Security a break. And the two year delay would give Medicare the break it needs for the next 20 years.”
What if we were to bump the Medicare age up effective 1 JAN 2013, and then increase it by 1 year every 3-5 years after that until it was 70? And provide that anyone who reaches eligibility age won’t lose eligibility due to one of those increases (so some poor oldster who turns 68 a month before the age goes up to 69 won’t get kicked off the program).
There are other things I would like to see happen, but from your side of the aisle, do you think this seems to be a reasonable starting point for discussion?
josef nix
June 1st, 2011
12:09 pm
@@
Hey! What’s your take on Syria?
Normal
June 1st, 2011
12:11 pm
WE ARE GETTING SERIOUS ON SYRIA! AND WE ARE YAMMERING ON YEMEN!
WE ARE SERIOUSLY YAMMERING!
J Wellington Wimpy
June 1st, 2011
12:12 pm
You can save Medicare w/out destroying it…just waiting for the Democrat’s proposal. But all we get is fear mongering.
circa the republicans and Obamacare?
I will gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today…”
jewcowboy
June 1st, 2011
12:14 pm
YEA! A chart…I needed my chart fix.
jewcowboy
June 1st, 2011
12:15 pm
Off topic, but considering how many people seem to have had their knickers bunched on this particular topic on this blog, I thought I would post this. Here is a really good legal breakdown on San Francisco’s ballot initiative proposing the banning of circumcision on males under 18 years of age: http://www.towleroad.com/2011/06/nipping-freedom-in-the-bud.html#more
Bottom line, even in the remote case of it being being passed, the courts would most likely overturn it. So snip, or don’t, away…your choice.
carlosgvv
June 1st, 2011
12:16 pm
If those in charge, Republicans or Democrats or both, are unwilling to give us a national healthcare plan and, as a result, people die because they just can’t afford medical treatment, then the operative word is Sociopathic. Hey, is this a great country or what!!!!!!
Fly-On-The-Wall
June 1st, 2011
12:16 pm
I have to admit that even though I’m a progressive I was hoping that the Ryan Plan would truly cut across all politics and give us a true budget that would solve the debt issue and at the same time be fair. Honest, I was really hoping for this and I would have been one of the first to support it if it had. Instead, it was just the normal Republican approach to everything. Cut taxes for the the well-to-do, whether it is a person or corporation (they are one-in-the-same you know) and then remove any social saftey net this country has. It takes us back to before the Great Depression as far as policy and it will make the majority of people suffer for no good reason.
Granny Godzilla
June 1st, 2011
12:18 pm
OH ANDY PUH-LEASE!!!!
From your link….
The annual limit waiver process has been carried out in a way that reflects a commitment to transparency and responsible implementation. CCIIO regularly posts a list of approved annual limit waivers. The list includes the name of the company, the date their application was received, the plan effective date, the number of enrollees covered, the date the application was completed, and the date the waiver was approved.
After we initiated the process in September, applications were received at a relatively steady rate. However, we experienced an expected increase in applications in December, due to the fact that employers and insurers must submit their applications 30 days before the start of their plan year. Many plan years begin on January 1; for that reason we received a large number of applications at the beginning of December. CCIIO worked very hard to ensure that we could process those applications and make timely decisions with respect to these applicants.
As of late February, CCIIO has approved 94 percent of waiver applications received from employers, insurers, and other applicants. The vast majority of waivers, more than 95 percent, were granted to health plans that are job-related. These include self-insured employer health plans, health reimbursement arrangements, collectively-bargained multiemployer plans, and health plans sold by issuers to fully-insured employers.
It is important to note that these limited benefit plans that have received waivers cover an extremely small proportion of the people covered by private health plans in the United States. Since setting up this program, CCIIO has granted waivers to plans covering approximately 2.6 million people, out of the 160 million people who have employer-sponsored health coverage.[1] This figure is less than 2 percent of all covered lives in the private insurance market.
Thanks for posting this. It bebunks the ugly lies regarding waivers…..
Midori
June 1st, 2011
12:18 pm
“In other news, the number of limosines in the Federal Government fleet has risen from 238 in FY 2008 to 412 in FY 2010.
and then there’s this: http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2011/05/gov_christie_arrives_at_sons_h.html
Mary Elizabeth
June 1st, 2011
12:20 pm
Recon -
My cousin made such remarkable gains on chemo (even with liver cancer – he went into remission) that the doctors want him to continue it. He has decided not to continue it because he plans to go back to work in another job if he can find one, until he can no longer work. His insurance premiums, with no adjustment made by the insurance company to release his wife from his policy, are just too much for him to bear. In fairness, he is also simply tired of being ill on the chemo so much. A very sad story. He is only one of many. I hope that when you say you understand chemo, that you have not had to undergo it personally. Good luck to you.
Scooter (The Original)
June 1st, 2011
12:21 pm
Ryan has my admiration for proposing a politically difficult solution to an imploding promise of Congresses past. Dems can’t even pass a budget because it’s politically difficult and wouldn’t allow me the liberty to choose a personal account for a small portion of my Social Security contributions. I’ll respect any politician who has the cojones to present a realistic solution to the financial problems that were created by pandering politicians over promising. But it amazes me that citizens still believe the political promises of today’s politicians, as past promises are proving to be unsustainable… I guess that’s why government provided “HOPE” is so important to some.
josef nix
June 1st, 2011
12:24 pm
Normal
Thanks for chiming in…
Logical Dude
June 1st, 2011
12:24 pm
jconservatinve at 12:00.
Why did it take until noon until someone said this????
This is the EASIEST way to make medicare sustainable! Raise the retirment age! DUH!
Of course, it won’t cut costs for a couple of more years, but sheesh, why haven’t I heard this seriously discussed from the politicians? People are living longer now than when Medicare was implemented. Link retirement (and benefit) age to life expectancy, and there is no issue!
Everything else is just tossing politics around and it gets old. . . really old.
josef nix
June 1st, 2011
12:26 pm
jewcowboy
@ 12:15
BADA where are you when we need you?
@@
June 1st, 2011
12:28 pm
Josef:
I’ve got 21 windows on my house. All but three have monopolized my time and attention for over a month now.
I’m happy to let Turkey watch over Syria for the time being.
All the stuff I’ve been reading about the Syrian regime allegedly doing this or that? Wouldn’t be the first time pressure thru the media has borne fruit. I will say, I fully expect Assad to come around at some point.
There’s a reason why our approach to Syria’s uprising has been one of “hands off”. In Syria, we see promise. Whether it’s justified or not, I have no idea.
Window #18 awaits.
jewcowboy
June 1st, 2011
12:30 pm
godless heathen,
“In other news, the number of limosines in the Federal Government fleet has risen from 238 in FY 2008 to 412 in FY 2010.”
Please submit the government’s definition of limousine…or Carrey Limousine’s…or Tel Aviv Limousine’s…or Elite Limousine’s…
Not to be too snarky, but the use of the word “limousine” may connote a long black stretched luxury car with leather seats and a mini bar, but the reality can vary widely, from a 1992 Suburban (in Phoenix, The Limo Hire – I don’t suggest them) to a 2011 Mercedes S400 hybrid (in NYC – Paris Limousine – I highly recommend).
The point is the actual definition matters greatly.
Joe Mama
June 1st, 2011
12:30 pm
Original Scooter — “wouldn’t allow me the liberty to choose a personal account for a small portion of my Social Security contributions.”
If you want a personal retirement account, then I suggest participating in your company’s 401k plan, if they offer one.
If not, I’m pretty sure you can set up an IRA or Roth (or even a Keogh) through all sorts of entities.
BADA BING
June 1st, 2011
12:32 pm
josef…..where you find oppression, I am there. Where you find discrimination, I am there. Where you find dishonesty, I am there.
BADA BING
June 1st, 2011
12:33 pm
Are the PC crowd in San Fran going to get their circumcisions reversed to show solidarity with the newborns? Let them put their – - – - s where their mouths are .OOPs I am being redundant, it is SF after all.
jewcowboy
June 1st, 2011
12:33 pm
josef nix,
“BADA where are you when we need you?”
Tip of the murnin to ya…oh wait it’s afternoon now.
Rafe Hollister
June 1st, 2011
12:34 pm
Jay, you convinced me, that Ryan’s plan has some serious problems, so I am for the Democrat plan now.
What? The Dems have no plan, how can that be?
BADA BING
June 1st, 2011
12:34 pm
I think that San Fran needs a Head Start program.
Mary Elizabeth
June 1st, 2011
12:35 pm
Please read the following, noticing carefully the graph in orange, etc.
Letting the Bush tax cuts expire for all (and returning the the tax rates under Clinton, as highly recommended by Alan Greenspan), cutting tax subsidies to corporations, and cutting huge military expenses by bringing home troops from Afghanistan and Iraq would go a long way toward lowering our deficit so that Medicare, as well know it, would more easily be funded.
http://www.cbpp.org/cms/?fa=view&id=3490
RB from Gwinnett
June 1st, 2011
12:35 pm
“If those in charge, Republicans or Democrats or both, are unwilling to give us a national healthcare plan and, as a result, people die because they just can’t afford medical treatment, then the operative word is Sociopathic”
What this really means is this…
“If those in charge, Republicans or Democrats or both, are unwilling to make evil rich people pay for my healtcare and, as a result, I die because I can’t afford every available medical treatment on the planet with my sociology degree, then the operative word is “I’m responsible for myself”
Jefferson
June 1st, 2011
12:37 pm
Raise medicare taxes to keep up with medical costs. Blame the medical industry for the increases and focus on the costs as they are the ones controlling them. Americans work and pay for medicare and they want what they pay for.
Peadawg
June 1st, 2011
12:37 pm
“Timber!
(That crashing sound you hear is all the private businesses dumping the “dead wood” on their payroll.)”
More fear mongering and criticism. What’s your solution, sfd, to save Medicare?
josef nix
June 1st, 2011
12:38 pm
@@
An interesting take…thanks. Windows? Are you free on Tuesdays? ISH
BADA
jewcowboy
An the same t’ye…
yuzeyurbrane
June 1st, 2011
12:39 pm
Excellent article. I would tweak it with a couple of other points.
First, there is language in the Ryan bill triggering caps across the board if deficits exceed a certain % of GDP. This would include both Medicare and Social Security and thus even those currently over 65 have the threat, indeed even likelihood, of having their current Medicare and Social Security benefits cut. And, as you pointed out, the Republicans have included this as part of their price (extortion?) for agreeing to raising the debt ceiling. If that happens, cuts for current Social Security and Medicare beneficiaries could occur as early as shortly after August 2 of this year. So the claim of no impact on those now over 55 is simply not accurate and in fact is a deliberate distortion, probably to dissuade angry seniors from coming to Republican town hall meetings.
Second, we often forget that old folks get sick more often than younger folks. So much so that prior to Medicare, most private insurers would not write policies for the elderly. Medicare has vastly improved both the physical and fiscal health of our nation’s seniors, as shown by many studies. With the paltry and unrealistic voucher Ryan offers, what makes anyone think private insurers would offer any quality health insurance to seniors this time? It’s simply not profitable.
Davidson
June 1st, 2011
12:41 pm
The bottom line with the snakes of the Republican party is they want to make Obama a “one term” President. They will put this nation and its people on the chopping block just to try and take down that “brown skinned man sitting in the White House.”
Granny Godzilla
June 1st, 2011
12:42 pm
Rafe
No plan?
See the ACA signed into law March 23, 2010.
BADA BING
June 1st, 2011
12:43 pm
\This time stamp thing is confusing, I have to scan backwards to find out responces to my comments. This is not helpful to my dyslexia.
mm
June 1st, 2011
12:45 pm
“When Democrats intend to slash half a trillion dollars out of Medicare to fund the new Obamacare entitlement, they’re really trying to scam the public into believing that they’re the saviors of Medicare, when in reality they’re the ones destroying it.”
Now for the truth. That half a trillion cut is to eliminate the abomination which is Medicare Advantage, a half baked scheme dreamed up by the GOP and passed under reconciliation that funnels money from Medicare into the pockets of insurance companies. Sounds familiar, huh? It was the litmus test for what Ryan and the GOP are trying to do. It was an absolute failure and wasted billions of dollars.
robert
June 1st, 2011
12:45 pm
once I again the thesis is “love gov’t, love employees, hate employers”
good luck as the tide continues to go out and the emperor has no clothes- tarp, talf- RIP in money heaven
Joe Mama
June 1st, 2011
12:46 pm
RB — “What this really means is this…”
“If those in charge, Republicans or Democrats or both, are unwilling to make evil rich people pay for my healtcare and, as a result, I die because I can’t afford every available medical treatment on the planet with my sociology degree, then the operative word is “I’m responsible for myself”
What RB really means is this — ‘Are you sick or hurt? Sucks to be you, kthxbai!’
godless heathen
June 1st, 2011
12:46 pm
Midori:
Noone is telling me I should pay more taxes to the state of New Jersey.
jewcowboy: Whatever the government defines as a limo, there should be fewer of them instead of nearly doubling the number in 2 years.
As I have said so many times, I will gladly pay more taxes when the government demonstrates the need.
josef nix
June 1st, 2011
12:50 pm
BADA
“josef…..where you find oppression, I am there. Where you find discrimination, I am there. Where you find dishonesty, I am there”
Just call you Joe Hill…
Normal
June 1st, 2011
12:52 pm
Josef,
Sorry to have butted in. I just have different thought about what is happening in the Middle East. We should keep out of it and let the chips fall where they may. At best, all you can expect there is a slightly looser cleric rule…for a time…then the hammer will fall again. Democratic law? Not hardly. Israel had better gird their loins. Anyway that’s my thought.
And once again, I apologize for being snarky.
Peadawg
June 1st, 2011
12:55 pm
“Bye Bye…..oil subsidies, farm subsidies (except for REAL family farms), 1/2 of defense spending, new sports stadiums, luxury lounges in international air terminals, nuclear and coal power plants,
golly I could go on and on….”
I’ll help. 25% cut in Medicare, food stamps, and Medicaid as well. That way we can afford to research and invest in high speed rails and cleaner energy.
Granny Godzilla
June 1st, 2011
12:57 pm
godless heathen
I will gladly pay more taxes when the government demonstrates the need.
so is it just YOU who has to approve or can the rest of us withhold our tax support from government projects/plans with which we do not agree?
Bye Bye…..oil subsidies, farm subsidies (except for REAL family farms), 1/2 of defense spending, new sports stadiums, luxury lounges in international air terminals, nuclear and coal power plants,
golly I could go on and on….
RB from Gwinnett
June 1st, 2011
12:58 pm
Joe Mama, there are clinics all over Atlanta who would love to have you march your happy little self down there every day to work helping the “less fortunate” with their heathcare. You could work for free so they don’t have to pay somebody to answer the phones, clean the toilets, do some filing, etc. If you REALLY care about the “less fortunate”, you’d do them a whole lot more good putting your time and talents where your mouth is than sitting here in your AC pecking on that keyboard all day whining because you can’t get a few more dollars out of rich people to fund things you want. Maybe you could try showing people you care instead of just telling them you care. Big difference.
Be sure and report back how it goes for you.
Peadawg
June 1st, 2011
1:00 pm
“Ok let’s cut what you suggest…you wanna join the burial detail?
Or should we just burn the bodies?”
Do you want everything on the table like others suggest? Or is it just things you don’t like and fear monger on the other things.
Midori
June 1st, 2011
1:00 pm
Godless -
you completely missed the point.
godless heathen
June 1st, 2011
1:01 pm
“so is it just YOU who has to approve or can the rest of us withhold our tax support from government projects/plans with which we do not agree? ”
Granny, Where the heck did you get that from my post? My taxes support all programs whether I agree with them or not. It bothers me to see my tax money wasted whether it is wasted in a program that I agree with or not.
Can we assume that it doesn’t bother you to see tax money wasted as long as it’s wasted in a program that you approve of?
Granny Godzilla
June 1st, 2011
1:02 pm
Peadawg
Ok let’s cut what you suggest…you wanna join the burial detail?
Or should we just burn the bodies?
Joe Mama
June 1st, 2011
1:03 pm
RB — ‘Crying, whining rant. Complaint about someone else spending lots of time on the web. Numerous logical fallacies. Copious handwringing. Faux outrage about imagined shortcomings of post opponent. Frustrated challenge coupled with intemperate demand.’
“Be sure and report back how it goes for you.”
It worked out great; you came right up for the bait.
May I have another content-free complaint post from you, please? I’m starting a collection.
Left wing management
June 1st, 2011
1:04 pm
RB: “If you REALLY care about the “less fortunate”, you’d do them a whole lot more good putting your time and talents where your mouth is than sitting here in your AC pecking on that keyboard all day whining because you can’t get a few more dollars out of rich people to fund things you want”
But why do that when the whole point is to get people like YOU to help out, too?
Sure, I could go down to a clinic and volunteer my time. But why do that when I can kick up a storm of protest and bring storms of protest raining down on the heads of people like Stephen Helmsley of United Health Group, who last year pulled in a handsome salary of $106,000,000.00, a paycheck he enhances the better he can DENY care to people who are in more need of help than he obviously is.
I don’t know about you, but I call that obscene.
So, yeah, I think I’ll opt for raising hell about the robber baron profiteers feasting the marrow of the nation’s public services. It’s funner.
godless heathen
June 1st, 2011
1:06 pm
Midori,
There was no point to miss.
Granny Godzilla
June 1st, 2011
1:06 pm
RB in Gwinnett
Let’s make a deal…I’ll clean the bathrooms in a free clinic
and you can clean up the rest of the oil in the Gulf (make sure you get
in between all those little shrimp toes) so we can cut back subsidies to oil companies.
Oh, and you can finish the Valdez clean up, and that sludge pool of slurry ash in KY and while you’re at it….finish all the superfund
clean up sites (that’ll make you glow with more than just pride of accomplishment)
Granny Godzilla
June 1st, 2011
1:08 pm
Peadawg
Everything on the table, then prioritize.
I am proud to be a truth monger.
Mighy Righty
June 1st, 2011
1:08 pm
Oh please, please will somebody take care of me. I’m a Democrat and I can’t take care of myself. It’s those evil rich people who are holding me back. Please don’t cut my benefits. Just increase taxes, borrow from the Chinese and let my children pay them back. I don’t care who pays as long as it’s not me!
Thulsa Doom
June 1st, 2011
1:09 pm
My ribs are hurting I’m laughing so hard. So Jay really believes the CBO on their cost projections of what Medicare will really cost? Given Medicare’s projected cost history vs its actual cost this is just tooooo funnny.
How did the promises of what Medicare was going to cost us when we were being sold on these programs square up with the actual cost experience over the years? Glad you asked! Here are some examples:
When Medicare Part A (hospital insurance) was passed in 1965 we were told that the cost of the program 25 years later, in 1990, would be $9 billion a year. The actual cost? $67 billion.
The entire Medicare program was made law in 1967. At that time we were told that it would cost $12 billion by 1990. You already know where this is going, don’t you? By 1990 the cost was $110 billion per year.
How about the Medicare home benefit program? That was passed in 1988. At that time we were told that the cost just 5 years later would be $4 billion per year. The actual cost? Try $10 billion .. more than twice what we were told.
Matter of fact the only govt health program that has actually come in under cost vs Bush’s market oriented Part D prescription drug program where 42 different private drug plans compete for someone’s business. Here yaaaa go!
Medicare Part D Under Budget
According to the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services (CMS), the total costs for the Medicare Part D prescription drug program based on actuary estimates will be $37.2 billion in 2008 and $46.4 billion in 2009. When the drug benefit was being debated in Congress, however, the actuary estimated the benefit would cost $68 billion in 2008 and $74 billion in 2009. Based on these estimates, Medicare Part D is currently operating at 37-45% under initial projections.
Further, officials at CMS report that monthly premiums for Medicare prescription drug plans will average $28 in 2009 – a 37% decrease from $44.12 when the benefit was created in 2003 – translating into significant savings for the Federal government as well as beneficiaries.
josef nix
June 1st, 2011
1:10 pm
Normal
Not to worry…the reason I’m asking is that the silence on Syria has been deafening…that’s why I’m of the opinion this one has been left to Bibi…in a deal worked out with Turkey…we still haven’t even called home our ambassador…and now they’ve taken to torturing and castrating 13 year old boys…and yet,,,no outcry…why?
bob from account temps
June 1st, 2011
1:11 pm
the 25th district election is not an indication of anything except that a 3rd party candidate can sway an election with a few % points.
jewcowboy
June 1st, 2011
1:11 pm
BADA BING,
“Let them put their – – – – s where their mouths are .”
I’m not quite sure all San Franciscans are that flexible.
Peadawg
June 1st, 2011
1:12 pm
“Everything on the table” – Then why fear monger? If everything’s on the table, you should be on board with cuts to Medicare, Medicaid, and food stamps AS WELL. Cuts across the board, period, is the only fair way. No picky choosy.
Real Scooter
June 1st, 2011
1:15 pm
Dang,is this blog in a time warp or something? Whew!
getalife
June 1st, 2011
1:18 pm
I think Bibi should stop playing politics with Obama and focus on the revolution surrounding him. Very dangerous for Israel at this time.
I think the simple solution to the debt limit is if they default, Congress is fired.
Granny Godzilla
June 1st, 2011
1:19 pm
Pea
“If everything’s on the table, you should be on board with …..”
Ah nope.
Somebody puts raccoo on the table….well prepared….I still won’t eat it.
That said, I applaud the Obama administrations efforts to improve efficiencies in those programs.
But to blanketly cut programs for the least well off in this nation in order to pay off the debts incurred by the most well off strikes me as tremendously unfair, immoral and Un-American.
Left wing management
June 1st, 2011
1:19 pm
Mighty: “Oh please, please will somebody take care of me. I’m a Democrat and I can’t take care of myself.”
What about those poor folks in Joplin, MO or Tuscalooosa, AL who recently had their entire worlds wiped from the face of the earth?
Could THEY take care of themselves?
Last time I checked, those were red states. So there had to have been quite a faithful GOP voters among those hardest hit, don’t you think?
jewcowboy
June 1st, 2011
1:19 pm
godless heathen,
“Whatever the government defines as a limo, there should be fewer of them instead of nearly doubling the number in 2 years.”
And if there is no definition of a “limousine” in the government because they do not classify vehicles that way?
Granny Godzilla
June 1st, 2011
1:20 pm
getalife
did you see that 57% of Israelis support President Obama’s plan over BiBi’s plan?
Peadawg
June 1st, 2011
1:21 pm
“But to blanketly cut programs for the least well off in this nation in order to pay off the debts incurred by the most well off” – Which is NOT AT ALL what I’m proposing. Go back and read…CUTS ACROSS THE BOARD while raising taxes.
RB from Gwinnett
June 1st, 2011
1:22 pm
OMG!! The oil companies are making money and taking tax deductions. The madness has to stop!!
How about we get the govt out of the business of picking winners and losers Granny? Let’s quit with the social engineering and just go with a flat tax. Everybody pays down to the last man.
BTW, what keeps you from opening your own business and becoming one of the evil rich people you envy so greatly?
getalife
June 1st, 2011
1:22 pm
Granny Godzilla ,
Now I have.
Thanks.
Paul
June 1st, 2011
1:23 pm
Afternoon, Peadawg
The problem I have with across-the-board cuts is it assumes all programs are equally important.
They are not.
Is a program to provide research into the causes and treatments of autism of equal importance as a program to provide subsidies to Florida sugar growers? I think not.
Is a program to inspect vegetables imported from South America of equal importance as a program, designed during the oil embargo under Carter, to promote energy awareness? I think not.
Then there’s the question of, if all programs have equal percentages of overlap or duplication or waste. Again, I think not.
You may want to consider that ‘across the board cuts’ are advocated by those in government who do not want to assign priorities or go on record as saying one thing is not as important as another thing.
Which is why I’m more in favor of wholesale elimination of some programs. And the jobs and contracts associated with them.
Joe
June 1st, 2011
1:25 pm
And the alternative the dems are proposing to save Medicare is? Do nothing and let it go bankrupt… Even Clintoon understands that something has to be done…..
josef nix
June 1st, 2011
1:26 pm
getalife
I expect Bibi is…he and Obama both…all that other stuff was just pr posturing, imho, there was a deal struck under the table there as per usual…we’ll see…
stands for decibels
June 1st, 2011
1:27 pm
More fear mongering and criticism. What’s your solution, sfd, to save Medicare?
posted it already, @ 10.36. Not rocket science, this.
Thulsa Doom
June 1st, 2011
1:27 pm
Bibi = lecturer
Obama= lecturee
Mighy Righty
June 1st, 2011
1:27 pm
Left wing management
June 1st, 2011
1:19 pm
What about those poor folks in Joplin, MO or Tuscalooosa, AL who recently had their entire worlds wiped from the face of the earth?
Could THEY take care of themselves?
I assume that if they are Republicans as I am they will have Home Owners Insurance which will pay for a hotel until such time as my home is rebuilt. It’s called planning.
AmVet
June 1st, 2011
1:28 pm
“What about those poor folks in Joplin, MO or Tuscaloosa, AL who recently had their entire worlds wiped from the face of the earth?”
(In my best neo-con imitation) They just made bad choices. They should have saved the hundreds of thousands of dollars it will cost them now. The parasites are gonna have to live with the consequences, instead of mooching off of the government.
stands for decibels
June 1st, 2011
1:29 pm
oh, and since apparently nobody’s thought to say it yet: [Bleep] you, Bill “Voice of Sanity” Clinton, you pathetic Democratic Losership Council a-hole.
Paul
June 1st, 2011
1:29 pm
AmVet
If I recall correctly, when the first big tornadoes hit and I raised the preemptive point you imitated, that we would hear those points seriously made by some here, RW-(the original) accused me of wandering off into ‘jerk’ territory.
Sometimes, I hate being correct.
Granny Godzilla
June 1st, 2011
1:30 pm
CUTS ACROSS THE BOARD….
translates into CUTS ACROSS THE BACKS of the least of our borthers….
stands for decibels
June 1st, 2011
1:30 pm
Got it. Medicare is fine the way it is.
Pretty much. Nothing an empowered advisory board and improved price negotiation leverage can’t remedy.
Granny Godzilla
June 1st, 2011
1:31 pm
RB
AS I have stated multiple times….both Mr G and I ARE small business owners.
We also happen to be good people.
getalife
June 1st, 2011
1:31 pm
Josef,
Hillary was very careful with her wording on Syria.
I hope our strategy to deal with this revolution works.
Granny Godzilla
June 1st, 2011
1:32 pm
Joe
See ACA
March 23 2010
Peadawg
June 1st, 2011
1:32 pm
sfd @ 1:27
From the link you posted: “”instead of gutting programs for the poor like Medicaid and Medicare, food stamps, and the new healthcare law, the People’s Budget focuses on cuts in defense.” – I see nothing in there about Medicare cuts. Got it. Medicare is fine the way it is. Thanks. I guess everything isn’t on the table….
“You may want to consider that ‘across the board cuts’ are advocated by those in government who do not want to assign priorities or go on record as saying one thing is not as important as another thing.” – They would get more of my respect than the ones that want to pick and choose favorites. Nobody likes a teacher’s pet, ya know.
josef nix
June 1st, 2011
1:33 pm
getalife
She was for a fact and this time the President left it to the Secretary of State to speak…some serious tip toeing going on here…and given that ploy of march to the borders, like a lot of other manoeuvers by Asaad, it didn’t turn out quite the way planned, and Bibi made it pretty clear what would happen if it spilled across the border…with the refugees, it’s already spilling over into Turkey and Lebanon…Iran?
Left wing management
June 1st, 2011
1:34 pm
AmVet: “They just made bad choices. They should have saved the hundreds of thousands of dollars it will cost them now. The parasites are gonna have to live with the consequences, instead of mooching off of the government.”
And of course that’s about what their leader – a certain Cantor – said in effect, wasn’t it?
So maybe these people, as they start putting their lives back together, will salute their party leaders in Washington for their consistency and ideological purity. Should we put down bets on it?
Mighy Righty
June 1st, 2011
1:34 pm
LWM-Have you been to New Orleans lately? Probably 20% of the city is boarded up. After 4 years! My, my.
Peadawg
June 1st, 2011
1:34 pm
“CUTS ACROSS THE BOARD….
translates into CUTS ACROSS THE BACKS of the least of our borthers….”
Only in your eyes, Granny. To most people, “cuts across the board” means exactly that. After all, everything’s on the table….supposedly.
Darwin
June 1st, 2011
1:35 pm
What’s the difference in calling the new health care law “Obamacare” and saying it will include death panels and all the other B.S.? Hey, what comes around goes around in my book.
Peadawg
June 1st, 2011
1:35 pm
“Pretty much.”
Here’s your sign.
deegee
June 1st, 2011
1:35 pm
I was listening to a discussion on Ryancare yesterday morning on CNBC. The financial analysts are recommending managed care stocks like United Healthcare and Wellpoint. They all speculate that Medicare will be structured like our HMOs. The seniors won’t be seeing a specialist when they have heartburn. They will have to do just like the rest of us and either go to Kaiser or wait in line to see their primary care physician. That wouldn’t be so bad if it weren’t for the fact that it is going to be riskier for grandpop. The HMO might not be able to diagnose over the phone what may be at the root of grandpop’s heartburn. Heartburn is a bit more concerning when you are 75 than when you are 35.
Granny Godzilla
June 1st, 2011
1:36 pm
Pea
Most? Ah, nope.
Seen Pauls’s post yet?
Watching GOP generic poll numbers?
stands for decibels
June 1st, 2011
1:36 pm
Sometimes, I hate being correct.
whereas I find I hate it damn near every day.
jewcowboy
June 1st, 2011
1:36 pm
I love it when, no matter which party is espousing it, laying out facts and ramifications suddenly become “fear mongering.” It only seems to strike fear into which ever party has something to be fearful of…
stands for decibels
June 1st, 2011
1:36 pm
Here’s your sign.
PD, if you want someone to tell you that this “socialized medicine” program is inherently evil and doomed and in need of “reform” ‘n all, I’m not your guy.
Perhaps you should re-animate Zombie Spokesmodel Reagan and his Operation Coffee Cup Campaign.
Left wing management
June 1st, 2011
1:36 pm
Mighty: “I assume that if they are Republicans as I am they will have Home Owners Insurance which will pay for a hotel until such time as my home is rebuilt. It’s called planning.”
Sounds like you’ve got it all planned out there.
Granny Godzilla
June 1st, 2011
1:38 pm
Thulsa
Bibi is a liar….
Great find from Andrew Sullivan…
A Joint Statement From Clinton And Netanyahu
From last November 11. Money quote:
The Prime Minister and the Secretary agreed on the importance of continuing direct negotiations to achieve our goals. The Secretary reiterated that “the United States believes that through good-faith negotiations, the parties can mutually agree on an outcome which ends the conflict and reconciles the Palestinian goal of an independent and viable state, based on the 1967 lines, with agreed swaps, and the Israeli goal of a Jewish state with secure and recognized borders that reflect subsequent developments and meet Israeli security requirements.”
What a bald-faced liar Bibi is; and how pathetic that so many fell for his hissy fit yet again
josef nix
June 1st, 2011
1:41 pm
Question: do all those renters have home owners insurance? And we’re talking hand out here, but simply availability of housing and especially once the clean-up-fix up-rebuild crews come in…
jewcowboy
June 1st, 2011
1:41 pm
Mighy Righty,
“I assume that if they are Republicans as I am they will have Home Owners Insurance which will pay for a hotel until such time as my home is rebuilt. ”
http://www.joplinglobe.com/local/x108201261/AP-Enterprise-Tornado-victims-often-uninsured
There goes an assumption…
“Most of us didn’t even vote for him, but he’s our president and he supported us,” said Phil Stotts, 31, who said he was pastor of a church focused on those recovering from drugs and alcohol. “We’re just honored to have him here.” ~ NY Times 5.29.2011
Message from Matti
June 1st, 2011
1:42 pm
Does anyone else see the eerie irony in noting that so often, those touting the “it’s your fault if you can’t afford a doctor, so I’m okay with you dying in the street in a puddle of your own feces” brand of Social Darwinism are frequently the same people protesting the teaching of Darwin’s evolutionary theories in science class because they think it undermines the teachings of their Lord and Savior, the “I don’t need no insurance card to heal you or feed you” Jesus Christ? Or is it just me?
josef nix
June 1st, 2011
1:42 pm
oops…
my @ 1:41
…and we’re NOT talking handout…
Mighy Righty
June 1st, 2011
1:44 pm
Granny Godzilla
June 1st, 2011
1:38 pm
Thulsa
Bibi is a liar….
Great find from Andrew Sullivan…
A Joint Statement From Clinton And Netanyahu
From last November 11. Money quote:
The Prime Minister and the Secretary agreed on the importance of continuing direct negotiations to achieve our goals. The Secretary reiterated that “the United States believes that through good-faith negotiations, the parties can mutually agree on an outcome which ends the conflict and reconciles the Palestinian goal of an independent and viable state, based on the 1967 lines, with agreed swaps, and the Israeli goal of a Jewish state with secure and recognized borders that reflect subsequent developments and meet Israeli security requirements.”
What a bald-faced liar Bibi is; and how pathetic that so many fell for his hissy fit yet again
Granny, you are wrong and are spreading a false report put out by a dishonest left leaning publication. You repeated this misinformation last week. Here is the truth: The statement you are repeating was not a joint statement. It was a statement released by Hillary Clinton only. Bibi did not lie! The bald faced liar is Andrew Sullivan.
Good little liberal
June 1st, 2011
1:45 pm
OK. Then it’s settled. Lets do nothing.
Sort of like the budget that the democrats haven’t offered in over two years.
Hope and Same.
We have serious problems. One political party is trying. the other party just doesn’t have the balls to even try.
Democrats. Gotta love em.
No. I mean you really gotta love them because they sure don’t deserve anyone’s respect.
Peadawg
June 1st, 2011
1:45 pm
“PD, if you want someone to tell you that this “socialized medicine” program is inherently evil and doomed and in need of “reform” ‘n all, I’m not your guy.”
Neither am I. LOL. All I said is it’s paying out in benefits more than it receives = needs reform = Medicare is NOT fine the way it is. Doing nothing, like in the budget you linked to, is not an option.
Granny Godzilla
June 1st, 2011
1:47 pm
Mighty Righty
Here is the truth: The statement you are repeating was not a joint statement. It was a statement released by Hillary Clinton only. Bibi did not lie! The bald faced liar is Andrew Sullivan.
Sorry but I think you are wrong…..you can find the joint statement on the website for the Osrael Ministry of Foreign affairs
Take a peek for yourself!!
Would you happen to one of those “they jammed it down our throats guys”?
If so Kammy was right….
Thulsa Doom
June 1st, 2011
1:49 pm
AmVet: “They just made bad choices. They should have saved the hundreds of thousands of dollars it will cost them now. The parasites are gonna have to live with the consequences, instead of mooching off of the government.”
AmVet and LWM,
If they were homeowners they have homeowners insurance, car owners same thing. And if they are renters with 2 cents of responsibility they have renters insurance and have photos of their belongings uploaded to a site such as yahoo. Renters insurance is only about $12 a month. If they are govt parasites then they will just go back to being govt parasites in a different area. Sure people will lose some money on deductibles for car and home damage but once again if you are a responsible person and have appropriate insurance and some savings for deductibles then you are taken care of. People would be more resilient like they used to be if the govt didn’t make them so woefully dependent like in the case of Katrina “refugees”. These people who had the common sense to have insurance will simply pick up the pieces and move on.
josef nix
June 1st, 2011
1:49 pm
Bibi, like Obama, has a base he has to rhetorically pander to…what came out of this was nothing more than both sides agreeing to continue with what has pretty much been there all along…the Golan and Syria were not at issue here, and that’s why I’m wondering just what was the under the table, backroom deal…
Bosch
June 1st, 2011
1:49 pm
Peadawg,
Can we cut some in the Defense budget too before we throw grandma under the bus?
Bosch
June 1st, 2011
1:50 pm
And god dammit, I don’t know where in the state you live, but it is freaking hot as hell here. I need to invest in a pool.
jewcowboy
June 1st, 2011
1:50 pm
BADA @ 1.51,
Just for you: http://youtu.be/yiIINyUDLZw
Good little liberal
June 1st, 2011
1:51 pm
Bosch
We can’t kill old people?
Democrats kill almost a million babies a year, but you say that we can’t kill old people.
Doesn’t seem fair.
BADA BING
June 1st, 2011
1:51 pm
I just fixed the lost time problem from my comp. Follow these instructions…… 1.It’s just a jump to your left 2. And then a step to your right 3. Put your hands on your hips, etc.etc.
Scooter (The Original)
June 1st, 2011
1:52 pm
Joe Mama, I contribute to several retirement accounts.
However, politicians sold Social Security as a “you get out what you put in” and then they went and looted what others had put in. It is now to the point that I am putting into it with no expectation of receiving any returns, because D.C. didn’t live up to their end of the deal. The republicrats tried to allow a CHOICE for younger Americans to allocate a small portion of our SS taxes into a private account. To which, Harry Reid wouldn’t even negotiate if private accounts were on the table. He said at the time we had plenty of time to deal with it. But rather than deal with it when Dems controlled the executive and legislative branch, they used that power to create another entitlement program, even though the others are breaking the bank.
I personally don’t like my fellow citizens being played for fools and I will not give D.C. a pass. Sure, I will take care of me and mine, but I won’t be an eternal sucker to political hucksters.
Peadawg
June 1st, 2011
1:52 pm
“Can we cut some in the Defense budget too before we throw grandma under the bus?” – Sure we can cut some defense spending (again…EVERYTHING IS ON THE TABLE… supposedly). But I don’t want to throw my grandmother under a UGA bus, Athens bus, MARTA bus….absolutely not. Do you?
Bosch
June 1st, 2011
1:52 pm
No Matti, it’s not just you.
andygrdzki
June 1st, 2011
1:53 pm
Joe Mama @ 11:26… you still not provide a link as requested… It was a monster Bill,,, okay, provide the link…….. And my question was,,, what did they offer,,, you said they provided one,, yet you failed to provide it……. Why is that? Or are you just making up an argument…..
And by your post, it protects workers from the bad Heathcare bill….. and by the way, I posted a story from USA Today,,,,,, I know, you just find things to support your limited view….
Granny,,,, you never responded to the USA Today Article….. And my point still is,,, if this was such a great plan… why all the waivers……….. It was to protect everyone…… And now waivers to protect a few…. It is either for everyone or it is not,,, it was a bad bill…. But you will not admit it……
I know as you libbers say….. Tax the rich…. Hate to say this to you libbers….. “Your life is not my fault”…. Instead of playing on the blogs,,, go get a job, or an education,
This is fun when I have the time…… you poor libbers…..
Bosch
June 1st, 2011
1:53 pm
Peadawg,
My grandmas (and mother) are dead, so I don’t care.
josef nix
June 1st, 2011
1:54 pm
Thulsa
Does renters insurance cover the cost of finding new housing the way homeowners does…?
Thulsa Doom
June 1st, 2011
1:54 pm
Mighty Righty,
Thanks for correcting Granny Godzilla on her poutrage calling Bibi a bald faced liar. Perhaps she will develop some reading comprehension skills to avoid further embarrassment.
As for Bibi obviously the man is not the bald faced liar that granny mistakenly claimed. I wish we had a tough guy former warrior like Bibi who is principled and tough as opposed to a fool of a community organizer. Too bad we can’t put Bibi and Obama in a cage match. Bibi would beat his azz down in 10 seconds flat and have Obama crying uncle.
J Wellington Wimpy
June 1st, 2011
1:55 pm
If I didn’t know any better, I’d think that Republicans love to talk the talk but sadly don’t walk the walk…..nah! I must be mistaken…….
Gov. Rick Scott vetoed a record amount of spending in the budget last week, but decided to keep nearly $370 million in federal stimulus.
Gov. Rick Scott campaigned against President Obama’s “failed stimulus” program – yet the freshman politician kept nearly $370 million of the federal cash in the Florida budget he signed last week.
Scott’s decision to keep the stimulus money stands out in a year when the governor touted record budget vetoes of up to $615 million. He emphasized the vetoes of “wasteful” spending at a Thursday event that featured a campaign-style “Promises Made, Promises Kept” banner.
But as he ran for office last summer, Scott said he “would fight all the stimulus money.” He also told reporters “I would have figured out how to balance the budget without it.”
I will gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today……..
Mighy Righty
June 1st, 2011
1:57 pm
Granny
Here is the actual communique released by Hillary’s office and a link for you to verify.
Granny
The quote you reference was not a joint statement as you can see from the quote below. This was a statement from Hillary Clinton only. It has been floating around for a few days as a joint statement when the words are strictly Hillary’s. It is an attempt to Make Netanyahu look dishonest and forgive Obama’s lack of diplomacy.
11 Nov 2010:
* The Secretary reiterated that “the United States believes that through good-faith negotiations, the parties can mutually agree on an outcome which ends the conflict and reconciles the Palestinian goal of an independent and viable state, based on the 1967 lines, with agreed swaps, and the Israeli goal of a Jewish state with secure and recognized borders that reflect subsequent developments and meet Israeli security requirements.” Those requirements will be fully taken into account in any future peace agreement.
The discussions between the Prime Minister and the Secretary focused on creating the conditions for the resumption of direct negotiations aimed at producing a two-state solution. http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/Government/Communiques/2010/Joint_statement_PM_Netanyahu_US_Sec_Clinton_11-Nov-2010.htm ISRAEL MINISTRY of FOREIGN AFFAIRS.
jewcowboy
June 1st, 2011
1:58 pm
Bosch,
“Can we cut some in the Defense budget too before we throw grandma under the bus?”
No…we need that alternate engine program for the JSF that the Defense Department doesn’t want even if grandma has to turn into a speed bump for Lockheed.
Granny Godzilla
June 1st, 2011
1:59 pm
Mighty Righty
Are you calling the Israel Ministry of Foriegn Affairs liars?
Did you click on the linkee?
Bosch
June 1st, 2011
2:00 pm
” Bibi would beat his azz down in 10 seconds flat ”
Yes, I too prefer testosterone filled a$$holes beating up highly educated individuals capable of critical thought as a leader — I think that’s how we should always chose our leaders.
Message from Matti
June 1st, 2011
2:00 pm
Thanks, Bosch!
BTW, in the absence of a pool (or ability to survive more than five minutes in the scorching sun) I like to sprawl out in front of a large oscillating fan, wearing nothing but stylishly-coordinated boxers & wife beater, drinking a tall, chilled, alco beverage, with the Braves low on the radio, drifting in and out of grasshopper-buzzed summer dreams while the wind swooshes through my hair. Hope that helps!
Mighy Righty
June 1st, 2011
2:01 pm
Thulsa, you are wise.
Thulsa Doom
June 1st, 2011
2:01 pm
josef nix
June 1st, 2011
1:54 pm
Thulsa
Does renters insurance cover the cost of finding new housing the way homeowners does…?
Josef Nix,
That is probably the most asinine statement I’ve ever heard from you. I would think that a renter’s policy does but I’m not sure. But even if a renter’s policy doesn’t cover the cost of a hotel room is there anything that would prevent a renter from paying for an extended stay hotel for a week while he or she looked for a new apt or a new house to rent? Seriously? How freaking long does it take to go find an apartment and rent it? Do renters not have friends, family, etc that they can stay with for a few days or weeks or even a month? Most people do.
No offense Josef but people like you make more excuses for people than Carter has peanuts. Its pathetic. There were people who were either renters or full time condo owners who lived at my family condo in Gulf Shores when Ivan’s storm surge crashed through the first 2 floors and the condo was uninhabitable for 8-9 months. Those people found places to stay in the interim. They were unhappy at how long it took to get the condo complex up and running again but they didn’t sit around and whine for years and years.
Granny Godzilla
June 1st, 2011
2:02 pm
actually did you READ the linkee……
the MFA says it’s a joint statement….
Bosch
June 1st, 2011
2:02 pm
Matti,
If I can’t afford a pool, I think I”m gonna at least get a sprinkler — I think I’m gonna get one of those kiddy pools for me and the pups to play in.
Thulsa Doom
June 1st, 2011
2:03 pm
Look at Granny. She’s all riled up today. Still peeved over Bibi talking down to Obama like the way a man talks down to a boy.
Granny Godzilla
June 1st, 2011
2:05 pm
Bibi’s Ass?
You mean the one that the Israelis fired once before?
jewcowboy
June 1st, 2011
2:06 pm
Thulsa Doom,
“That is probably the most asinine statement I’ve ever heard from you. I would think that a renter’s policy does but I’m not sure. ”
If you don’t know the answer, it would seem to not be so asinine of a question…
Whaheema
June 1st, 2011
2:07 pm
If Jay’s gig as a toadie does not work out, maybe he can be a DNC committee chair.
josef nix
June 1st, 2011
2:07 pm
Don’t know about Obama in the ring, but I’ll put my money on Hillary or Susan, Golda’s students…
getalife
June 1st, 2011
2:07 pm
“Thulsa, you are wise.”
What ya smokin?
Disgusted
June 1st, 2011
2:08 pm
Right! Let’s raise the Medicare age to 70.
But I don’t hear any of you “compassionate conservatives” talking about a law making it illegal for an employer to force an employee to retire before age 70. Out of sight, out of mind, right? Just let those old coots 65 through 69 do without any medical coverage, right?
Some of you have the foresight of a three-year-old.
Joe Mama
June 1st, 2011
2:10 pm
Scooter — “Joe Mama, I contribute to several retirement accounts.”
Well, then, you have private accounts, don’t you?
“However, politicians sold Social Security as a “you get out what you put in” and then they went and looted what others had put in. It is now to the point that I am putting into it with no expectation of receiving any returns, because D.C. didn’t live up to their end of the deal. The republicrats tried to allow a CHOICE for younger Americans to allocate a small portion of our SS taxes into a private account.”
I am all for people contributing to their own private accounts. I simply want them to exercise the personal responsibility required for them to go set up and fund those private accounts up for themselves, rather than having the gubmint get involved in the process.
I feel sure that you, as a supporter of smaller government and getting government out of our private lives, would agree with my thoughts on this matter.
Granny Godzilla
June 1st, 2011
2:11 pm
Thulsa
Actually I’m laughing up my sleeve because BiBi’s support at home is eroding…..
Bosch
June 1st, 2011
2:12 pm
“is there anything that would prevent a renter from paying for an extended stay hotel for a week while he or she looked for a new apt or a new house to rent?”
Money?
“Do renters not have friends, family, etc that they can stay with for a few days or weeks or even a month?”
No, not all do. That’s the thing with folks like Doom, they have absolutely no clue as to how many people live.
josef nix
June 1st, 2011
2:14 pm
Thulsa
And once again, your jerking knee is getting in the way…all I did was ask a question…I wondered.
The problem here as I see it and as the people on the ground see it is the availability of housing
And what is to keep them from staying in a hotel etc? Uh, the job was blown away, too…and so was the hotel…and so were those of friends, family and relatives…
I’m talking about housing…are there plans in place and action to provide that temporary housing…thass all…you need to quit looking for cheats, frauds, and trashy welfare folks where there are none…
Granny Godzilla
June 1st, 2011
2:16 pm
Disgusted
Yep, I’m looking forward to a world where the Firemen and Police are in their late 60’s….
Imagine NYPD:Gray?
josef nix
June 1st, 2011
2:17 pm
Bibi’s support in the coalition is eroding. His base is still there. The question is, can Labor form a coalition to oust him? It doesn’t look like it right now.
godless heathen
June 1st, 2011
2:19 pm
jewcowbay:
“And if there is no definition of a “limousine” in the government because they do not classify vehicles that way?”
Take it up with iwatch news. But I guess they do since the Obama Administration provided an excuse for the increased number of limos.
QUOTE: An analysis of General Services Administration data reveals the federal fleet has increased from 238 limos in 2008—the last year of the Bush Administration— to 412 limos in 2010. Much of the increase was recorded in the State Department under Hillary Clinton.
For its part, the Obama administration said the increased number of limousines in the federal fleet reflects “an enhanced effort to protect diplomats and other government officials in a dangerous world. END QUOTE
jewcowboy
June 1st, 2011
2:20 pm
“Gulf Shores when Ivan’s storm surge crashed through the first 2 floors and the condo was uninhabitable for 8-9 months. Those people found places to stay in the interim.”
And just for the record…my family lives in Pensacola where Ivan hit. Immediately afterward, housing was in extreme short supply. Rents more than doubled if you could find somewhere to rent. Housing values skyrocketed, as those with undamaged homes could demand almost any price they wanted. The house next door to my mother’s sold for nearly twice what she paid for hers 7 months before a month after Ivan.
So yeah…if you have considerable liquid assets, you’ll do fine.
Scooter (The Original)
June 1st, 2011
2:21 pm
Joe Mama, I sure would like to invest some of my FICA taxes into a personal retirement account I can depend on and transfer. But, dems didn’t feel I was worthy of that liberty and therefore wouldn’t even negotiate.
Bosch
June 1st, 2011
2:22 pm
” the way a man talks down to a boy.”
Interesting how wingnuts refer to our POTUS as “boy.” Very telling into their subconscious.
Thulsa Doom
June 1st, 2011
2:23 pm
Can we cut some in the Defense budget too before we throw grandma under the bus?- Bosch
Bosch, Actually Congressman Ryan pushed her off a cliff in her wheelchair- no throwing her under a bus. At least that’s what one of them classy Dem ads showed him doing.
Josef Nix,
The availability of housing? So you may have to live an extra 10-15 minutes away. Last time I checked there’s still plenty of available housing and rental apts practically everywhere. Job got blown away? Yep. That sucks. You still have to just move on though. And if its an average ho hum job then what’s the big deal? Then again we are talking about the Obama economy aren’t we? What’s that? ADP just came out with a report saying the economy only produced a paltry 38,000 jobs last month? In an economy that needs 300,000 new jobs a month just to keep up with new entrants into the work force? Hopey changey!
Getalife,
Here’s the summation of your intellectual discourse- “Cons lie”. How long did it take you to come up with that one genius?
jewcowboy,
Its an asinine question in that it really doesn’t matter? If you have a renters policy and it doesn’t have a provision to pay for a hotel stay then obviously one would read the policy, know that and have money set aside for the provision of a hotel or extended stay. If the policy does provide for it then the point is mute.
jewcowboy
June 1st, 2011
2:24 pm
godless heathen,
“In a statement, GSA spokeswoman Sara Merriam said, “The categories in the Fleet Report are overly broad, and the term ‘limousine’ is not defined,” adding that “vehicles represented as limousines can range from protective duty vehicles to sedans.”
Seems as if you are are just responding to the word “limousine” without any intellectual curiosity as to what that actually means, just the emotional connotation of the word…or in other terms your getting played.
josef nix
June 1st, 2011
2:24 pm
IMAM
I don’t know what else y’all may have talked about in those meetings, but I hope it was this blasted “too fast” thingie…how the hell can you run a knee-jerk liberal blog with that b*tch keeping count?
Bosch
June 1st, 2011
2:26 pm
“But, dems didn’t feel I was worthy of that liberty and therefore wouldn’t even negotiate.”
No, Scooter is wasn’t “those dems” — it was our society — long ago, who decided that we as a nation would be better off if there was a system in place to help out elderly people when they retire, and those taxes are necessary to sustain that program. You don’t like the system, that’s fine, take it up with your Representative. Tell him/her you do not like Social Security and want to do away with it. I’m sure they’ll listen to you with all ears.
godless heathen
June 1st, 2011
2:27 pm
“the Obama administration said the increased number of limousines in the federal fleet reflects”
And you are the dupe, jewcowboy. The administration admits it.
The contortions that you Obama water carriers have to go through to defend your man against any and all potential criticism is amazing.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
June 1st, 2011
2:33 pm
JCB….. go with 9/11 protection vehicles (not limos)…then the question from the righties is why did Obama take so long to get them.
Disgusted
June 1st, 2011
2:36 pm
Joe Mama, I sure would like to invest some of my FICA taxes into a personal retirement account I can depend on and transfer. But, dems didn’t feel I was worthy of that liberty and therefore wouldn’t even negotiate.
Obviously, you want to look at SS as a savings account. Well, it isn’t. It’s an intergenerational transfer fund—I pay for the SS of retired people during my working years and younger people pay for mine during my retirement years. Pulling your contributions, or any portion thereof, out to put into your private savings account would merely hasten the system’s demise. Sure, my employers and I have together put more than $175,000 in contributions to my account, but not a penny of that is mine. In fact, it’s doubtful I’ll live long enough to get back what’s been put in for me. I would need to live roughly 10 years after retirement just to get my contributions back, contrary to the assertions of those who say every penny comes back in the first two or three years.
Ever seen the SS formula for calculating benefits? It’s heavily skewed toward low-income earners, who proportionately draw much more in benefits than their contributions alone would ordinarily merit. Middle income workers? Not so much. And ditto for high income earners. There is, to say the least, that much “welfare” in SS.
Thulsa Doom
June 1st, 2011
2:38 pm
jewcowboy
June 1st, 2011
2:20 pm
That’s odd. I have a friend who owns a condo and I’m pretty sure its in Pensacola. His condo has lost value since then and he bought it before Ivan. And prices of homes and condos in Gulf Shores and Orange Beach did not double after Ivan. They went down. I know because we had offers on our condo for 240k and afterwards and offers for complexes in the same complex are 130. Not going to say you are a flat out liar but your story certainly differs from what I’ve seen down there and it certainly differs from what the market is bearing right now vs pre- Katrina.
USMC
June 1st, 2011
2:41 pm
‘WE ARE ON THE VERGE OF A GREAT, GREAT DEPRESSION’
http://www.cnbc.com/id/43236764
Looks like “General Secretary” Obama is headed towards early retirement
USMC
June 1st, 2011
2:43 pm
More bad news for Govt Motors:
Govt to lose $14B of auto bailout funds
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110601/ap_on_re_us/us_obama_autos_2
josef nix
June 1st, 2011
2:44 pm
Thulsa
We are talking about Joplin and towns all over Alabama…there’s NOT plenty of housing…one third of Joplin is GONE, not there anymore, kaput, finished, a pile of rubble…you know finito…d*mn, Pombo, sometimes you’re as dense as the Black Forest of Germany…
And just so you’ll know…back during Katrina, you should have been in this house of refugees…food, clothing, shelter, look for a new job, try to catch your breath and figure out what to do next…this is not some abstract to me…and that lot? Well, lemme put it to you this way, some of them could buy and sell you a dozen times over…but where’s that paper now…the bank is under 10 feet of water.. and yeah, most of them had the papers and were part of the luggage on the way out…that would not be the case in a tornado…it took about three months and yes it was “easy” for them…our less well heeled folks? Took more time…
Chris
June 1st, 2011
2:45 pm
The Limosine Liberals have commanded Jay and all the other media lapdogs to go forth with “Mediascare”. Lord help us all.
@@
June 1st, 2011
2:47 pm
Obama…..57%?
There’s a slew of polls out on Bibi vs Obama.
The poll of 600 Jewish Israelis, representing a statistical sample of the adult Jewish population, … According to that survey, 61% of Jewish Israelis oppose Obama’s formula of the 1967 lines with land swaps as a basis for an agreement with the Palestinians, while only 27% favor it. …
Bibi’s lookin’ good!!!!
Nuthin’ new. That man’s always looked good!!!!!
schnirt
Gordon
June 1st, 2011
2:48 pm
What does the CBO say about continuing on our present course?
Gordon
June 1st, 2011
2:51 pm
We have an extreme problem. Why wouldn’t the solution be extreme? Are you still one who believes there is an easy way out of this?
Joe Mama
June 1st, 2011
2:56 pm
Scooter — “Joe Mama, I sure would like to invest some of my FICA taxes into a personal retirement account I can depend on and transfer. But, dems didn’t feel I was worthy of that liberty and therefore wouldn’t even negotiate.”
Shrug.
Given that you can fund various sorts of tax-advantaged and taxable investment instruments to your heart’s content, your complaint on this score is perplexing at the least.
I suspect an ulterior motive on your part, but no matter. SS remains intact, ungutted and safely out of your hands.
jewcowboy
June 1st, 2011
3:00 pm
godless heathen,
“The contortions that you Obama water carriers have to go through to defend your man against any and all potential criticism is amazing.”
Actually I am not carrying water for the Obama Admin, rather than for the Bush Admin. The report it for vehicles from 2009 – 2010. As I pointed out to Dave R. in a post yesterday:
“iWatch News is saying they increased in the 1st 2 years of the Obama admin, which means they were most likely included in a budget in 2007 or 2008, then approved, and then went through the requisition process to be delivered in 2009 – 2010.
You can blame the Democrats in Congress for approving the budgets if you want, but you really can’t blame them on the Obama admin.”
These were ordered during the Bush years a delivered in the Obama years. Again, no where are the actual vehicles described, other than as “limousines” which I have shown vary widely. In one part they are showing Crown Vics as “limousines”. Really?
USMC
June 1st, 2011
3:00 pm
“The CBO verdict: RyanCare or ‘Mediscare’”–Jay Bookman
Mediscare????
More SCARE tactics from “Bookman the Bolshevik”.
Typical Marxist
Joe Mama
June 1st, 2011
3:01 pm
jewcowboy — “In one part they are showing Crown Vics as “limousines”. Really?”
Can we anticipate our conservative friends and associates to start hatin’ on the Georgia Highway Patrol and our Governor any time now?
Thulsa Doom
June 1st, 2011
3:03 pm
Interesting how wingnuts refer to our POTUS as “boy.” Very telling into their subconscious.- Bosch
Hey Freud, uh, I mean Bosch. Perhaps you need to work on your reading comprehension skills. I did not refer to Obama as a boy. I referred to the manner in which Bibi lectured him as being like the way a man talks down to a boy. Work on your comprehension skills sir.
Josef Nix,
Joplin was a small town but most of the damage in Alabama was in Tuscaloosa which is 44 miles from downtown B-ham and only about 20 minutes from the western suburbs in the same way that Douglassville is a suburb of Atlanta. The rest of the towns throughout Bama and Georgia had some damages but its not as if 100k towns and cities were blown away.
As for all your friends who were huddled together in your house during Katrina you said several of them could buy me out 12 times over. If that’s true then these people have piles of dough and could just relax at an embassy suites or a ritz carlton for that matter for 3 months in any number of major cities within several hours drive of New Orleans- too many too mention but Houston, B’ham, cities in Fla, all come to mind. No need for them to stay with you right?
I never said it was easy Josef. Just saying we make it sound a lot harder than it actually is. Finding a commensurate job can be difficult but finding temporary housing, comfort, food, and getting new clothes are not difficult things to do- especially with insurance. People do that every day in this country.
jewcowboy
June 1st, 2011
3:05 pm
Thulsa Doom,
“And prices of homes and condos in Gulf Shores and Orange Beach did not double after Ivan.”
In Gulf Breeze and Pensacola Beach they did. And then they crashed about 1.5 years later, and doubly so when BP decided to rub its oily presence on the shore.
“offers for complexes in the same complex are 130.”
Perhaps it was because of this: “They were unhappy at how long it took to get the condo complex up and running again”
“Not going to say you are a flat out liar but your story certainly differs from what I’ve seen down there”
Why thank you….I’m not going to call you a prick, but your story differs from what I’ve seen in Pensacola, Gulf Breeze, Pensacola Beach, Ft. Walton, Mary Esther and Destin…where I grew up and have friends and relatives in the real estate industry.
jewcowboy
June 1st, 2011
3:10 pm
Joe Mama,
“Can we anticipate our conservative friends and associates to start hatin’ on the Georgia Highway Patrol and our Governor any time now?”
Thulsa Doom
June 1st, 2011
3:11 pm
@@,
Speaking of polls I saw a Rasmussen poll last night that said Obama’s approval rating was down to 48% and his disapproval rating was at 51%.
I tried to warn folks like getalife that Obama’s temporary bump up to 56% approval following the death of Bin Laden was a temporary bump.
And as America looks nervously at staglation, a 6 month low in consumer confidence, and an economy that grew by a scant 38,000 jobs last month according to ADPs new jobs report the future is clear- Obama’s approval rating is going down……down……down……… How low can it go???
Midori
June 1st, 2011
3:21 pm
Godless — strange. I had the exact same reaction to your original post.
josef nix
June 1st, 2011
3:21 pm
Thulsa
Like I said, you’re dense. The ones of means were not here long, but were here…and yes, they did Embassy Suites it in short order and then helped the less fortunate ones as well…that’s what I was trying to tell your silly self about you should have been here…you would have seen how it plays out in reality…and why here? Family, Dingbo, family. We were the base for getting in touch, a rest stop, a few days, a couple of weeks, “…have you heard from K. yet?” “I think I saw her on a film clip from Charity (she’s an ER physician)…” “What about J and L?” “They’re here in Atlanta, they’re staying at…” “What about M?” “We haven’t heard anything from them yet. J says she thinks they left before the storm hit…they were supposed to go the Jackson she thought, but D says they’re not there…” “…A and F? They’re going to relocate here…they’ll be staying with us until they can find a job and then a place to stay…” You know, all that stuff that goes on in the event of a catastrophic disaster which, evidently, you’ve never experienced…
But why am I bothering…we aren’t even speaking the same language here much less on the same subject matter…
Now…upstairs…
Thulsa Doom
June 1st, 2011
3:27 pm
jewcowboy,
Well it would appear that if as you say rents really did double that one of 2 things is apparently true. Either your famous big gubment anti-gouging law in Florida doesn’t work worth a flip- despite several places such as hotels being sued for rent gouging, and your state’s enforcment doesn’t work worth a flip, or perhaps the rent gouging portion of the bill needs to be strengthened. Or perhaps you are exaggerating the effect of Ivan. Which is it? You either exaggerating or the state of Florida having very weak anti gouging law and enforcement. I suspect its gubment since libs never exaggerate. Perhaps you can get even mo big gubment to solve the problem.
http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Price+gouging+101%3a+a+call+to+Florida+lawmakers+to+perfect+Florida%27s…-a0144567284
USMC
June 1st, 2011
3:27 pm
More of “the rules don’t apply to me” attitude from Left-wing Liberal Congressman Weiner:
http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/politics/2011/05/31/sot.bash.weiner.twitter.cnn?hpt=hp_t2
Weinergate!
USMC
June 1st, 2011
3:30 pm
As Obumbles Fumbles, the Dow Jones Tumbles……. 250 points
http://www.cnbc.com/id/43238256
2…….0……..1……2
godless heathen
June 1st, 2011
3:34 pm
How many Crown Vics and Suburbans do you think the government owns? A whole lot more than 414. inews reported that the administration put 73% more limos in service. If you don’t believe their story then take it up with them.
If they were previously budgeted then the current administration could have still canceled the order.
But that is not the mentality of the “government is good and bigger government is better crowd” who are eager to defend any expenditure and any confiscation of wealth required to support it.
Thulsa Doom
June 1st, 2011
3:34 pm
USMC,
I’m guessing its all about the jobs report. 38,000 jobs added. Horrific. Obama is going down….down….down…..
BADA BING
June 1st, 2011
3:58 pm
cowboy…..@ the Dodge Chargers. The Mayor of Hapeville stated that when the Porsche HQ comes to Hapevlile, he wants the HPD to be the first PD in the US to have Porsche police cars.
jewcowboy
June 1st, 2011
4:00 pm
Thulsa doom,
“Either your famous big gubment anti-gouging law in Florida doesn’t work worth a flip”
Um…you realize that Florida, especially NW Florida is a Republican bastion?
“Perhaps you can get even mo big gubment to solve the problem. ”
Perhaps you could either educate your self on something you obviously don’t know, or you could admit that you don’t know what you are talking about.
jewcowboy
June 1st, 2011
4:03 pm
BADA BING,
“he wants the HPD to be the first PD in the US to have Porsche police cars”
Hmmm… http://youtu.be/ritCNYzTeJs
oldguy
June 1st, 2011
4:03 pm
Ok,
Time to jump in:
1. Medicare IS going to go broke (or break the federal government, take your choice) SOOOO …. The Demonctats plan …ignore the problem and blame everything on Repubs to try to win the next election.
2. “Stupid” seniors (I am on Medicare) “Hands off Medicare!!” The definition of stupidity!!! Hands off means it goes broke.
3. Medicare reimbursement is less costly than private insurance – it certainly is; it pays Dr. less for their services; thus MANY Drs and medical services are no longer taking Medicare (or at least new Medicare patients) The quality of medicare services is going down, i.e. less face time with Drs, The more experienced and skilled Drs are the first to drop out of the program. (like hospitals, they try to get a mix of insured patients vs Medicare patients so they can make up what they loose on Medicare …thus insured patients will pay more.
4. WE ALL PAID INTO THIS MEDICARE PONZI SCHEME!!! DOING NOTHING IS THE DEATH OF THE PROGRAM!!! EVERYONE LOOSES EVERYTHING!!
Sooooo….. Whats your plan?? Socalized Medicine?? Works great in Uganda and Kazackstan!!!
5. “if Medicare were to be privatized today” Where is that in the proposal??? RED HERRING
So: there are going to be costs and possibly less services with “FIXING” Medicare…….show me a plan that has no pain in it!!!!
MPercy
June 1st, 2011
4:16 pm
“I will glady pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today……….”
Jeez, if you’re gonna post the same thing over and over again, you ought to at lease spell-check it…
MPercy
June 1st, 2011
4:17 pm
Happens every time! “at least”!!!!
khc
June 1st, 2011
4:22 pm
who in their right mind would trust the private sector health insurance industry….just like wall st…greedy jackasses
oldguy
June 1st, 2011
4:25 pm
Want a “British” like system?
I lived there, it stinks, slow, poor quality, cost based (some “expensive” treatments and drugs are not available).
And government run services??
Read this real case:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1253438/Mid-Staffordshire-NHS-hospital-routinely-neglected-patients.html#ixzz0gW0vXvwf
Dan
June 1st, 2011
6:37 pm
khc you are exactly right, except when the alternative is goverment insurance, with not only greedy but inept and corrupt jackasses in charge. Can you name any government run social expense that has even half the efficiency of a private one
Jay
June 1st, 2011
8:24 pm
No, I see nothing odd in it. The only odd thing I see is the fixation of some on the right with this waiver process. Have you seen any company — and I mean ANY — that has complained about seeking a waiver and being refused? I have not, so it’s hard to credit this conspiratorial whisper campaign on the right about this being political favoritism.
As to Obama’s “ultimate plan,” that was years ago and he says he has changed his mind. More importantly, any change along the lines you suggest would have to be approved by Congress. Personally, I don’t see that happening any time soon. Do you? And if not, why obsess about it?
khc
June 1st, 2011
9:22 pm
dan admin costs in medicare less than private sector health industry…..outcomes in both suck, only advantage in private sector health utilization is natural outgrowth of profit motive not outcomes achieved