The CBO verdict: RyanCare or ‘Mediscare’
Only four Republicans in the House and four in the Senate have voted against adoption of U.S. Rep. Paul Ryan’s plan to end Medicare as we know it and replace with a private voucher plan. Congressional Republican leaders have also made it clear that they will insist on Medicare reform as the price for allowing an increase in the nation’s debt ceiling.
The issue has also had a major impact politically, with public opposition to RyanCare credited with handing an overwhelming Republican district in New York into Democratic hands last month. As a result, GOP leaders are now accusing their Democratic colleagues of using “Mediscare” tactics to exaggerate the impact of Ryan’s plan.
The controversy has led me to re-read the Congressional Budget Office’s analysis of RyanCare and its impact, released in April. The report is based on descriptions of the plan provided to CBO by Ryan and his staff, and was done at Ryan’s request.
A brief bare-bones review before we get started: For those born in 1956 and earlier, RyanCare would change nothing. For those born in 1955 and later, RyanCare replaces Medicare with a government voucher that senior citizens can use to subsidize their purchase of private health insurance plans.
The CBO report is 29 pages, but as it turns out, the agency provided a succinct, if somewhat dense, summation of its major findings in a single paragraph, which I’ve broken into sections and reprinted below. The CBO language is in plain text; my own commentary follows in italics.
Here goes:
“A private health insurance plan covering the standardized benefit would, CBO estimates, be more expensive currently than traditional Medicare. Both administrative costs (including profits) and payment rates to providers are higher for private plans than for Medicare.”
(In other words, because it privatizes coverage, RyanCare would drive total health-care spending on senior citizens considerably higher than it would be under Medicare. As CBO notes, administrative costs are considerably higher in private plans. In addition, because private plans lack the market power of Medicare to control costs, they pay more than Medicare for the same services.
How much would costs rise? By 2022, CBO numbers estimate, the cost of a Medicare-equivalent health insurance plan purchased from a private company for a 65-year-old would be $20,500. If that same coverage were provided through Medicare, total costs would be just $14,500. That’s an extra $6,000 in costs to be paid by the recipient, on top of the $6,500 in out-of-pocket expenses already required under Medicare.
To get some idea of the impact of that additional cost, Social Security predicts that in 2022, SSI recipients aged 65-69 will have a median income of just $34,000 from all sources. Again, that’s the median income. Half will have higher incomes; half will have lower incomes. And again, according to CBO, out-of-pocket health expenses for a 65-year-old under RyanCare in 2022 will total $12,500.
$34,000 – $12,500 = not very much)
“Those higher costs (of private health insurance) would be offset partly but not fully by savings from lower utilization stemming from two sources. First, private health insurers would probably impose greater utilization management than occurs in Medicare.”
(In other words, to borrow the bluntly misleading terminology of the right, “death panels.” Private companies would try to offset their greater administrative costs and other inefficiencies by denying treatment more often.)
“Second, private plans might restrict enrollees’ ability to purchase supplemental insurance plans; enrollees would thus face higher out-of-pocket costs than they do in Medicare, and that increased cost sharing would encourage lower utilization.”
“Lower utilization” means less health care. And as CBO warns, that could have other consequences. For example, “beneficiaries’ greater cost-sensitivity could result in a slower introduction or less frequent use of new, costly, but possibly beneficial, technologies and techniques than would occur under current law. Instead, technological innovation might focus increasingly on cost-saving rather than cost-increasing technologies.”
“On net, for a typical 65-year-old in 2011, CBO estimates that average spending in traditional Medicare will be 89 percent of (that is, 11 percent less than) the spending that would occur if that same package of benefits was purchased from a private insurer.” (see Figure 1 below.)
In more direct English, if Medicare were to be privatized today, costs would immediately jump 11 percent. As Figure 1 from the CBO notes (see below), by 2022, total health insurance costs under RyanCare would be 33 percent higher than under Medicare. By 2030, total health insurance costs would be 40 percent higher than under Medicare. And again, all of that additional cost and then some would come out of the pockets of senior citizens and into the pockets of the insurance industry.
– Jay Bookman
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411 comments Add your comment
stands for decibels
June 1st, 2011
1:29 pm
oh, and since apparently nobody’s thought to say it yet: [Bleep] you, Bill “Voice of Sanity” Clinton, you pathetic Democratic Losership Council a-hole.
Paul
June 1st, 2011
1:29 pm
AmVet
If I recall correctly, when the first big tornadoes hit and I raised the preemptive point you imitated, that we would hear those points seriously made by some here, RW-(the original) accused me of wandering off into ‘jerk’ territory.
Sometimes, I hate being correct.
Granny Godzilla
June 1st, 2011
1:30 pm
CUTS ACROSS THE BOARD….
translates into CUTS ACROSS THE BACKS of the least of our borthers….
stands for decibels
June 1st, 2011
1:30 pm
Got it. Medicare is fine the way it is.
Pretty much. Nothing an empowered advisory board and improved price negotiation leverage can’t remedy.
Granny Godzilla
June 1st, 2011
1:31 pm
RB
AS I have stated multiple times….both Mr G and I ARE small business owners.
We also happen to be good people.
getalife
June 1st, 2011
1:31 pm
Josef,
Hillary was very careful with her wording on Syria.
I hope our strategy to deal with this revolution works.
Granny Godzilla
June 1st, 2011
1:32 pm
Joe
See ACA
March 23 2010
Peadawg
June 1st, 2011
1:32 pm
sfd @ 1:27
From the link you posted: “”instead of gutting programs for the poor like Medicaid and Medicare, food stamps, and the new healthcare law, the People’s Budget focuses on cuts in defense.” – I see nothing in there about Medicare cuts. Got it. Medicare is fine the way it is. Thanks. I guess everything isn’t on the table….
“You may want to consider that ‘across the board cuts’ are advocated by those in government who do not want to assign priorities or go on record as saying one thing is not as important as another thing.” – They would get more of my respect than the ones that want to pick and choose favorites. Nobody likes a teacher’s pet, ya know.
josef nix
June 1st, 2011
1:33 pm
getalife
She was for a fact and this time the President left it to the Secretary of State to speak…some serious tip toeing going on here…and given that ploy of march to the borders, like a lot of other manoeuvers by Asaad, it didn’t turn out quite the way planned, and Bibi made it pretty clear what would happen if it spilled across the border…with the refugees, it’s already spilling over into Turkey and Lebanon…Iran?
Left wing management
June 1st, 2011
1:34 pm
AmVet: “They just made bad choices. They should have saved the hundreds of thousands of dollars it will cost them now. The parasites are gonna have to live with the consequences, instead of mooching off of the government.”
And of course that’s about what their leader – a certain Cantor – said in effect, wasn’t it?
So maybe these people, as they start putting their lives back together, will salute their party leaders in Washington for their consistency and ideological purity. Should we put down bets on it?
Mighy Righty
June 1st, 2011
1:34 pm
LWM-Have you been to New Orleans lately? Probably 20% of the city is boarded up. After 4 years! My, my.
Peadawg
June 1st, 2011
1:34 pm
“CUTS ACROSS THE BOARD….
translates into CUTS ACROSS THE BACKS of the least of our borthers….”
Only in your eyes, Granny. To most people, “cuts across the board” means exactly that. After all, everything’s on the table….supposedly.
Darwin
June 1st, 2011
1:35 pm
What’s the difference in calling the new health care law “Obamacare” and saying it will include death panels and all the other B.S.? Hey, what comes around goes around in my book.
Peadawg
June 1st, 2011
1:35 pm
“Pretty much.”
Here’s your sign.
deegee
June 1st, 2011
1:35 pm
I was listening to a discussion on Ryancare yesterday morning on CNBC. The financial analysts are recommending managed care stocks like United Healthcare and Wellpoint. They all speculate that Medicare will be structured like our HMOs. The seniors won’t be seeing a specialist when they have heartburn. They will have to do just like the rest of us and either go to Kaiser or wait in line to see their primary care physician. That wouldn’t be so bad if it weren’t for the fact that it is going to be riskier for grandpop. The HMO might not be able to diagnose over the phone what may be at the root of grandpop’s heartburn. Heartburn is a bit more concerning when you are 75 than when you are 35.
Granny Godzilla
June 1st, 2011
1:36 pm
Pea
Most? Ah, nope.
Seen Pauls’s post yet?
Watching GOP generic poll numbers?
stands for decibels
June 1st, 2011
1:36 pm
Sometimes, I hate being correct.
whereas I find I hate it damn near every day.
jewcowboy
June 1st, 2011
1:36 pm
I love it when, no matter which party is espousing it, laying out facts and ramifications suddenly become “fear mongering.” It only seems to strike fear into which ever party has something to be fearful of…
stands for decibels
June 1st, 2011
1:36 pm
Here’s your sign.
PD, if you want someone to tell you that this “socialized medicine” program is inherently evil and doomed and in need of “reform” ‘n all, I’m not your guy.
Perhaps you should re-animate Zombie Spokesmodel Reagan and his Operation Coffee Cup Campaign.
Left wing management
June 1st, 2011
1:36 pm
Mighty: “I assume that if they are Republicans as I am they will have Home Owners Insurance which will pay for a hotel until such time as my home is rebuilt. It’s called planning.”
Sounds like you’ve got it all planned out there.
Granny Godzilla
June 1st, 2011
1:38 pm
Thulsa
Bibi is a liar….
Great find from Andrew Sullivan…
A Joint Statement From Clinton And Netanyahu
From last November 11. Money quote:
The Prime Minister and the Secretary agreed on the importance of continuing direct negotiations to achieve our goals. The Secretary reiterated that “the United States believes that through good-faith negotiations, the parties can mutually agree on an outcome which ends the conflict and reconciles the Palestinian goal of an independent and viable state, based on the 1967 lines, with agreed swaps, and the Israeli goal of a Jewish state with secure and recognized borders that reflect subsequent developments and meet Israeli security requirements.”
What a bald-faced liar Bibi is; and how pathetic that so many fell for his hissy fit yet again
josef nix
June 1st, 2011
1:41 pm
Question: do all those renters have home owners insurance? And we’re talking hand out here, but simply availability of housing and especially once the clean-up-fix up-rebuild crews come in…
jewcowboy
June 1st, 2011
1:41 pm
Mighy Righty,
“I assume that if they are Republicans as I am they will have Home Owners Insurance which will pay for a hotel until such time as my home is rebuilt. ”
http://www.joplinglobe.com/local/x108201261/AP-Enterprise-Tornado-victims-often-uninsured
There goes an assumption…
“Most of us didn’t even vote for him, but he’s our president and he supported us,” said Phil Stotts, 31, who said he was pastor of a church focused on those recovering from drugs and alcohol. “We’re just honored to have him here.” ~ NY Times 5.29.2011
Message from Matti
June 1st, 2011
1:42 pm
Does anyone else see the eerie irony in noting that so often, those touting the “it’s your fault if you can’t afford a doctor, so I’m okay with you dying in the street in a puddle of your own feces” brand of Social Darwinism are frequently the same people protesting the teaching of Darwin’s evolutionary theories in science class because they think it undermines the teachings of their Lord and Savior, the “I don’t need no insurance card to heal you or feed you” Jesus Christ? Or is it just me?
josef nix
June 1st, 2011
1:42 pm
oops…
my @ 1:41
…and we’re NOT talking handout…
Mighy Righty
June 1st, 2011
1:44 pm
Granny Godzilla
June 1st, 2011
1:38 pm
Thulsa
Bibi is a liar….
Great find from Andrew Sullivan…
A Joint Statement From Clinton And Netanyahu
From last November 11. Money quote:
The Prime Minister and the Secretary agreed on the importance of continuing direct negotiations to achieve our goals. The Secretary reiterated that “the United States believes that through good-faith negotiations, the parties can mutually agree on an outcome which ends the conflict and reconciles the Palestinian goal of an independent and viable state, based on the 1967 lines, with agreed swaps, and the Israeli goal of a Jewish state with secure and recognized borders that reflect subsequent developments and meet Israeli security requirements.”
What a bald-faced liar Bibi is; and how pathetic that so many fell for his hissy fit yet again
Granny, you are wrong and are spreading a false report put out by a dishonest left leaning publication. You repeated this misinformation last week. Here is the truth: The statement you are repeating was not a joint statement. It was a statement released by Hillary Clinton only. Bibi did not lie! The bald faced liar is Andrew Sullivan.
Good little liberal
June 1st, 2011
1:45 pm
OK. Then it’s settled. Lets do nothing.
Sort of like the budget that the democrats haven’t offered in over two years.
Hope and Same.
We have serious problems. One political party is trying. the other party just doesn’t have the balls to even try.
Democrats. Gotta love em.
No. I mean you really gotta love them because they sure don’t deserve anyone’s respect.
Peadawg
June 1st, 2011
1:45 pm
“PD, if you want someone to tell you that this “socialized medicine” program is inherently evil and doomed and in need of “reform” ‘n all, I’m not your guy.”
Neither am I. LOL. All I said is it’s paying out in benefits more than it receives = needs reform = Medicare is NOT fine the way it is. Doing nothing, like in the budget you linked to, is not an option.
Granny Godzilla
June 1st, 2011
1:47 pm
Mighty Righty
Here is the truth: The statement you are repeating was not a joint statement. It was a statement released by Hillary Clinton only. Bibi did not lie! The bald faced liar is Andrew Sullivan.
Sorry but I think you are wrong…..you can find the joint statement on the website for the Osrael Ministry of Foreign affairs
Take a peek for yourself!!
Would you happen to one of those “they jammed it down our throats guys”?
If so Kammy was right….
Thulsa Doom
June 1st, 2011
1:49 pm
AmVet: “They just made bad choices. They should have saved the hundreds of thousands of dollars it will cost them now. The parasites are gonna have to live with the consequences, instead of mooching off of the government.”
AmVet and LWM,
If they were homeowners they have homeowners insurance, car owners same thing. And if they are renters with 2 cents of responsibility they have renters insurance and have photos of their belongings uploaded to a site such as yahoo. Renters insurance is only about $12 a month. If they are govt parasites then they will just go back to being govt parasites in a different area. Sure people will lose some money on deductibles for car and home damage but once again if you are a responsible person and have appropriate insurance and some savings for deductibles then you are taken care of. People would be more resilient like they used to be if the govt didn’t make them so woefully dependent like in the case of Katrina “refugees”. These people who had the common sense to have insurance will simply pick up the pieces and move on.
josef nix
June 1st, 2011
1:49 pm
Bibi, like Obama, has a base he has to rhetorically pander to…what came out of this was nothing more than both sides agreeing to continue with what has pretty much been there all along…the Golan and Syria were not at issue here, and that’s why I’m wondering just what was the under the table, backroom deal…
Bosch
June 1st, 2011
1:49 pm
Peadawg,
Can we cut some in the Defense budget too before we throw grandma under the bus?
Bosch
June 1st, 2011
1:50 pm
And god dammit, I don’t know where in the state you live, but it is freaking hot as hell here. I need to invest in a pool.
jewcowboy
June 1st, 2011
1:50 pm
BADA @ 1.51,
Just for you: http://youtu.be/yiIINyUDLZw
Good little liberal
June 1st, 2011
1:51 pm
Bosch
We can’t kill old people?
Democrats kill almost a million babies a year, but you say that we can’t kill old people.
Doesn’t seem fair.
BADA BING
June 1st, 2011
1:51 pm
I just fixed the lost time problem from my comp. Follow these instructions…… 1.It’s just a jump to your left 2. And then a step to your right 3. Put your hands on your hips, etc.etc.
Scooter (The Original)
June 1st, 2011
1:52 pm
Joe Mama, I contribute to several retirement accounts.
However, politicians sold Social Security as a “you get out what you put in” and then they went and looted what others had put in. It is now to the point that I am putting into it with no expectation of receiving any returns, because D.C. didn’t live up to their end of the deal. The republicrats tried to allow a CHOICE for younger Americans to allocate a small portion of our SS taxes into a private account. To which, Harry Reid wouldn’t even negotiate if private accounts were on the table. He said at the time we had plenty of time to deal with it. But rather than deal with it when Dems controlled the executive and legislative branch, they used that power to create another entitlement program, even though the others are breaking the bank.
I personally don’t like my fellow citizens being played for fools and I will not give D.C. a pass. Sure, I will take care of me and mine, but I won’t be an eternal sucker to political hucksters.
Peadawg
June 1st, 2011
1:52 pm
“Can we cut some in the Defense budget too before we throw grandma under the bus?” – Sure we can cut some defense spending (again…EVERYTHING IS ON THE TABLE… supposedly). But I don’t want to throw my grandmother under a UGA bus, Athens bus, MARTA bus….absolutely not. Do you?
Bosch
June 1st, 2011
1:52 pm
No Matti, it’s not just you.
andygrdzki
June 1st, 2011
1:53 pm
Joe Mama @ 11:26… you still not provide a link as requested… It was a monster Bill,,, okay, provide the link…….. And my question was,,, what did they offer,,, you said they provided one,, yet you failed to provide it……. Why is that? Or are you just making up an argument…..
And by your post, it protects workers from the bad Heathcare bill….. and by the way, I posted a story from USA Today,,,,,, I know, you just find things to support your limited view….
Granny,,,, you never responded to the USA Today Article….. And my point still is,,, if this was such a great plan… why all the waivers……….. It was to protect everyone…… And now waivers to protect a few…. It is either for everyone or it is not,,, it was a bad bill…. But you will not admit it……
I know as you libbers say….. Tax the rich…. Hate to say this to you libbers….. “Your life is not my fault”…. Instead of playing on the blogs,,, go get a job, or an education,
This is fun when I have the time…… you poor libbers…..
Bosch
June 1st, 2011
1:53 pm
Peadawg,
My grandmas (and mother) are dead, so I don’t care.
josef nix
June 1st, 2011
1:54 pm
Thulsa
Does renters insurance cover the cost of finding new housing the way homeowners does…?
Thulsa Doom
June 1st, 2011
1:54 pm
Mighty Righty,
Thanks for correcting Granny Godzilla on her poutrage calling Bibi a bald faced liar. Perhaps she will develop some reading comprehension skills to avoid further embarrassment.
As for Bibi obviously the man is not the bald faced liar that granny mistakenly claimed. I wish we had a tough guy former warrior like Bibi who is principled and tough as opposed to a fool of a community organizer. Too bad we can’t put Bibi and Obama in a cage match. Bibi would beat his azz down in 10 seconds flat and have Obama crying uncle.
J Wellington Wimpy
June 1st, 2011
1:55 pm
If I didn’t know any better, I’d think that Republicans love to talk the talk but sadly don’t walk the walk…..nah! I must be mistaken…….
Gov. Rick Scott vetoed a record amount of spending in the budget last week, but decided to keep nearly $370 million in federal stimulus.
Gov. Rick Scott campaigned against President Obama’s “failed stimulus” program – yet the freshman politician kept nearly $370 million of the federal cash in the Florida budget he signed last week.
Scott’s decision to keep the stimulus money stands out in a year when the governor touted record budget vetoes of up to $615 million. He emphasized the vetoes of “wasteful” spending at a Thursday event that featured a campaign-style “Promises Made, Promises Kept” banner.
But as he ran for office last summer, Scott said he “would fight all the stimulus money.” He also told reporters “I would have figured out how to balance the budget without it.”
I will gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today……..
Mighy Righty
June 1st, 2011
1:57 pm
Granny
Here is the actual communique released by Hillary’s office and a link for you to verify.
Granny
The quote you reference was not a joint statement as you can see from the quote below. This was a statement from Hillary Clinton only. It has been floating around for a few days as a joint statement when the words are strictly Hillary’s. It is an attempt to Make Netanyahu look dishonest and forgive Obama’s lack of diplomacy.
11 Nov 2010:
* The Secretary reiterated that “the United States believes that through good-faith negotiations, the parties can mutually agree on an outcome which ends the conflict and reconciles the Palestinian goal of an independent and viable state, based on the 1967 lines, with agreed swaps, and the Israeli goal of a Jewish state with secure and recognized borders that reflect subsequent developments and meet Israeli security requirements.” Those requirements will be fully taken into account in any future peace agreement.
The discussions between the Prime Minister and the Secretary focused on creating the conditions for the resumption of direct negotiations aimed at producing a two-state solution. http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/Government/Communiques/2010/Joint_statement_PM_Netanyahu_US_Sec_Clinton_11-Nov-2010.htm ISRAEL MINISTRY of FOREIGN AFFAIRS.
jewcowboy
June 1st, 2011
1:58 pm
Bosch,
“Can we cut some in the Defense budget too before we throw grandma under the bus?”
No…we need that alternate engine program for the JSF that the Defense Department doesn’t want even if grandma has to turn into a speed bump for Lockheed.
Granny Godzilla
June 1st, 2011
1:59 pm
Mighty Righty
Are you calling the Israel Ministry of Foriegn Affairs liars?
Did you click on the linkee?
Bosch
June 1st, 2011
2:00 pm
” Bibi would beat his azz down in 10 seconds flat ”
Yes, I too prefer testosterone filled a$$holes beating up highly educated individuals capable of critical thought as a leader — I think that’s how we should always chose our leaders.
Message from Matti
June 1st, 2011
2:00 pm
Thanks, Bosch!
BTW, in the absence of a pool (or ability to survive more than five minutes in the scorching sun) I like to sprawl out in front of a large oscillating fan, wearing nothing but stylishly-coordinated boxers & wife beater, drinking a tall, chilled, alco beverage, with the Braves low on the radio, drifting in and out of grasshopper-buzzed summer dreams while the wind swooshes through my hair. Hope that helps!
Mighy Righty
June 1st, 2011
2:01 pm
Thulsa, you are wise.
Thulsa Doom
June 1st, 2011
2:01 pm
josef nix
June 1st, 2011
1:54 pm
Thulsa
Does renters insurance cover the cost of finding new housing the way homeowners does…?
Josef Nix,
That is probably the most asinine statement I’ve ever heard from you. I would think that a renter’s policy does but I’m not sure. But even if a renter’s policy doesn’t cover the cost of a hotel room is there anything that would prevent a renter from paying for an extended stay hotel for a week while he or she looked for a new apt or a new house to rent? Seriously? How freaking long does it take to go find an apartment and rent it? Do renters not have friends, family, etc that they can stay with for a few days or weeks or even a month? Most people do.
No offense Josef but people like you make more excuses for people than Carter has peanuts. Its pathetic. There were people who were either renters or full time condo owners who lived at my family condo in Gulf Shores when Ivan’s storm surge crashed through the first 2 floors and the condo was uninhabitable for 8-9 months. Those people found places to stay in the interim. They were unhappy at how long it took to get the condo complex up and running again but they didn’t sit around and whine for years and years.
Granny Godzilla
June 1st, 2011
2:02 pm
actually did you READ the linkee……
the MFA says it’s a joint statement….
Bosch
June 1st, 2011
2:02 pm
Matti,
If I can’t afford a pool, I think I”m gonna at least get a sprinkler — I think I’m gonna get one of those kiddy pools for me and the pups to play in.
Thulsa Doom
June 1st, 2011
2:03 pm
Look at Granny. She’s all riled up today. Still peeved over Bibi talking down to Obama like the way a man talks down to a boy.
Granny Godzilla
June 1st, 2011
2:05 pm
Bibi’s Ass?
You mean the one that the Israelis fired once before?
jewcowboy
June 1st, 2011
2:06 pm
Thulsa Doom,
“That is probably the most asinine statement I’ve ever heard from you. I would think that a renter’s policy does but I’m not sure. ”
If you don’t know the answer, it would seem to not be so asinine of a question…
Whaheema
June 1st, 2011
2:07 pm
If Jay’s gig as a toadie does not work out, maybe he can be a DNC committee chair.
josef nix
June 1st, 2011
2:07 pm
Don’t know about Obama in the ring, but I’ll put my money on Hillary or Susan, Golda’s students…
getalife
June 1st, 2011
2:07 pm
“Thulsa, you are wise.”
What ya smokin?
Disgusted
June 1st, 2011
2:08 pm
Right! Let’s raise the Medicare age to 70.
But I don’t hear any of you “compassionate conservatives” talking about a law making it illegal for an employer to force an employee to retire before age 70. Out of sight, out of mind, right? Just let those old coots 65 through 69 do without any medical coverage, right?
Some of you have the foresight of a three-year-old.
Joe Mama
June 1st, 2011
2:10 pm
Scooter — “Joe Mama, I contribute to several retirement accounts.”
Well, then, you have private accounts, don’t you?
“However, politicians sold Social Security as a “you get out what you put in” and then they went and looted what others had put in. It is now to the point that I am putting into it with no expectation of receiving any returns, because D.C. didn’t live up to their end of the deal. The republicrats tried to allow a CHOICE for younger Americans to allocate a small portion of our SS taxes into a private account.”
I am all for people contributing to their own private accounts. I simply want them to exercise the personal responsibility required for them to go set up and fund those private accounts up for themselves, rather than having the gubmint get involved in the process.
I feel sure that you, as a supporter of smaller government and getting government out of our private lives, would agree with my thoughts on this matter.
Granny Godzilla
June 1st, 2011
2:11 pm
Thulsa
Actually I’m laughing up my sleeve because BiBi’s support at home is eroding…..
Bosch
June 1st, 2011
2:12 pm
“is there anything that would prevent a renter from paying for an extended stay hotel for a week while he or she looked for a new apt or a new house to rent?”
Money?
“Do renters not have friends, family, etc that they can stay with for a few days or weeks or even a month?”
No, not all do. That’s the thing with folks like Doom, they have absolutely no clue as to how many people live.
josef nix
June 1st, 2011
2:14 pm
Thulsa
And once again, your jerking knee is getting in the way…all I did was ask a question…I wondered.
The problem here as I see it and as the people on the ground see it is the availability of housing
And what is to keep them from staying in a hotel etc? Uh, the job was blown away, too…and so was the hotel…and so were those of friends, family and relatives…
I’m talking about housing…are there plans in place and action to provide that temporary housing…thass all…you need to quit looking for cheats, frauds, and trashy welfare folks where there are none…
Granny Godzilla
June 1st, 2011
2:16 pm
Disgusted
Yep, I’m looking forward to a world where the Firemen and Police are in their late 60’s….
Imagine NYPD:Gray?
josef nix
June 1st, 2011
2:17 pm
Bibi’s support in the coalition is eroding. His base is still there. The question is, can Labor form a coalition to oust him? It doesn’t look like it right now.
godless heathen
June 1st, 2011
2:19 pm
jewcowbay:
“And if there is no definition of a “limousine” in the government because they do not classify vehicles that way?”
Take it up with iwatch news. But I guess they do since the Obama Administration provided an excuse for the increased number of limos.
QUOTE: An analysis of General Services Administration data reveals the federal fleet has increased from 238 limos in 2008—the last year of the Bush Administration— to 412 limos in 2010. Much of the increase was recorded in the State Department under Hillary Clinton.
For its part, the Obama administration said the increased number of limousines in the federal fleet reflects “an enhanced effort to protect diplomats and other government officials in a dangerous world. END QUOTE
jewcowboy
June 1st, 2011
2:20 pm
“Gulf Shores when Ivan’s storm surge crashed through the first 2 floors and the condo was uninhabitable for 8-9 months. Those people found places to stay in the interim.”
And just for the record…my family lives in Pensacola where Ivan hit. Immediately afterward, housing was in extreme short supply. Rents more than doubled if you could find somewhere to rent. Housing values skyrocketed, as those with undamaged homes could demand almost any price they wanted. The house next door to my mother’s sold for nearly twice what she paid for hers 7 months before a month after Ivan.
So yeah…if you have considerable liquid assets, you’ll do fine.
Scooter (The Original)
June 1st, 2011
2:21 pm
Joe Mama, I sure would like to invest some of my FICA taxes into a personal retirement account I can depend on and transfer. But, dems didn’t feel I was worthy of that liberty and therefore wouldn’t even negotiate.
Bosch
June 1st, 2011
2:22 pm
” the way a man talks down to a boy.”
Interesting how wingnuts refer to our POTUS as “boy.” Very telling into their subconscious.
Thulsa Doom
June 1st, 2011
2:23 pm
Can we cut some in the Defense budget too before we throw grandma under the bus?- Bosch
Bosch, Actually Congressman Ryan pushed her off a cliff in her wheelchair- no throwing her under a bus. At least that’s what one of them classy Dem ads showed him doing.
Josef Nix,
The availability of housing? So you may have to live an extra 10-15 minutes away. Last time I checked there’s still plenty of available housing and rental apts practically everywhere. Job got blown away? Yep. That sucks. You still have to just move on though. And if its an average ho hum job then what’s the big deal? Then again we are talking about the Obama economy aren’t we? What’s that? ADP just came out with a report saying the economy only produced a paltry 38,000 jobs last month? In an economy that needs 300,000 new jobs a month just to keep up with new entrants into the work force? Hopey changey!
Getalife,
Here’s the summation of your intellectual discourse- “Cons lie”. How long did it take you to come up with that one genius?
jewcowboy,
Its an asinine question in that it really doesn’t matter? If you have a renters policy and it doesn’t have a provision to pay for a hotel stay then obviously one would read the policy, know that and have money set aside for the provision of a hotel or extended stay. If the policy does provide for it then the point is mute.
jewcowboy
June 1st, 2011
2:24 pm
godless heathen,
“In a statement, GSA spokeswoman Sara Merriam said, “The categories in the Fleet Report are overly broad, and the term ‘limousine’ is not defined,” adding that “vehicles represented as limousines can range from protective duty vehicles to sedans.”
Seems as if you are are just responding to the word “limousine” without any intellectual curiosity as to what that actually means, just the emotional connotation of the word…or in other terms your getting played.
josef nix
June 1st, 2011
2:24 pm
IMAM
I don’t know what else y’all may have talked about in those meetings, but I hope it was this blasted “too fast” thingie…how the hell can you run a knee-jerk liberal blog with that b*tch keeping count?
Bosch
June 1st, 2011
2:26 pm
“But, dems didn’t feel I was worthy of that liberty and therefore wouldn’t even negotiate.”
No, Scooter is wasn’t “those dems” — it was our society — long ago, who decided that we as a nation would be better off if there was a system in place to help out elderly people when they retire, and those taxes are necessary to sustain that program. You don’t like the system, that’s fine, take it up with your Representative. Tell him/her you do not like Social Security and want to do away with it. I’m sure they’ll listen to you with all ears.
godless heathen
June 1st, 2011
2:27 pm
“the Obama administration said the increased number of limousines in the federal fleet reflects”
And you are the dupe, jewcowboy. The administration admits it.
The contortions that you Obama water carriers have to go through to defend your man against any and all potential criticism is amazing.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
June 1st, 2011
2:33 pm
JCB….. go with 9/11 protection vehicles (not limos)…then the question from the righties is why did Obama take so long to get them.
Disgusted
June 1st, 2011
2:36 pm
Joe Mama, I sure would like to invest some of my FICA taxes into a personal retirement account I can depend on and transfer. But, dems didn’t feel I was worthy of that liberty and therefore wouldn’t even negotiate.
Obviously, you want to look at SS as a savings account. Well, it isn’t. It’s an intergenerational transfer fund—I pay for the SS of retired people during my working years and younger people pay for mine during my retirement years. Pulling your contributions, or any portion thereof, out to put into your private savings account would merely hasten the system’s demise. Sure, my employers and I have together put more than $175,000 in contributions to my account, but not a penny of that is mine. In fact, it’s doubtful I’ll live long enough to get back what’s been put in for me. I would need to live roughly 10 years after retirement just to get my contributions back, contrary to the assertions of those who say every penny comes back in the first two or three years.
Ever seen the SS formula for calculating benefits? It’s heavily skewed toward low-income earners, who proportionately draw much more in benefits than their contributions alone would ordinarily merit. Middle income workers? Not so much. And ditto for high income earners. There is, to say the least, that much “welfare” in SS.
Thulsa Doom
June 1st, 2011
2:38 pm
jewcowboy
June 1st, 2011
2:20 pm
That’s odd. I have a friend who owns a condo and I’m pretty sure its in Pensacola. His condo has lost value since then and he bought it before Ivan. And prices of homes and condos in Gulf Shores and Orange Beach did not double after Ivan. They went down. I know because we had offers on our condo for 240k and afterwards and offers for complexes in the same complex are 130. Not going to say you are a flat out liar but your story certainly differs from what I’ve seen down there and it certainly differs from what the market is bearing right now vs pre- Katrina.
USMC
June 1st, 2011
2:41 pm
‘WE ARE ON THE VERGE OF A GREAT, GREAT DEPRESSION’
http://www.cnbc.com/id/43236764
Looks like “General Secretary” Obama is headed towards early retirement
USMC
June 1st, 2011
2:43 pm
More bad news for Govt Motors:
Govt to lose $14B of auto bailout funds
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110601/ap_on_re_us/us_obama_autos_2
josef nix
June 1st, 2011
2:44 pm
Thulsa
We are talking about Joplin and towns all over Alabama…there’s NOT plenty of housing…one third of Joplin is GONE, not there anymore, kaput, finished, a pile of rubble…you know finito…d*mn, Pombo, sometimes you’re as dense as the Black Forest of Germany…
And just so you’ll know…back during Katrina, you should have been in this house of refugees…food, clothing, shelter, look for a new job, try to catch your breath and figure out what to do next…this is not some abstract to me…and that lot? Well, lemme put it to you this way, some of them could buy and sell you a dozen times over…but where’s that paper now…the bank is under 10 feet of water.. and yeah, most of them had the papers and were part of the luggage on the way out…that would not be the case in a tornado…it took about three months and yes it was “easy” for them…our less well heeled folks? Took more time…
Chris
June 1st, 2011
2:45 pm
The Limosine Liberals have commanded Jay and all the other media lapdogs to go forth with “Mediascare”. Lord help us all.
@@
June 1st, 2011
2:47 pm
Obama…..57%?
There’s a slew of polls out on Bibi vs Obama.
The poll of 600 Jewish Israelis, representing a statistical sample of the adult Jewish population, … According to that survey, 61% of Jewish Israelis oppose Obama’s formula of the 1967 lines with land swaps as a basis for an agreement with the Palestinians, while only 27% favor it. …
Bibi’s lookin’ good!!!!
Nuthin’ new. That man’s always looked good!!!!!
schnirt
Gordon
June 1st, 2011
2:48 pm
What does the CBO say about continuing on our present course?
Gordon
June 1st, 2011
2:51 pm
We have an extreme problem. Why wouldn’t the solution be extreme? Are you still one who believes there is an easy way out of this?
Joe Mama
June 1st, 2011
2:56 pm
Scooter — “Joe Mama, I sure would like to invest some of my FICA taxes into a personal retirement account I can depend on and transfer. But, dems didn’t feel I was worthy of that liberty and therefore wouldn’t even negotiate.”
Shrug.
Given that you can fund various sorts of tax-advantaged and taxable investment instruments to your heart’s content, your complaint on this score is perplexing at the least.
I suspect an ulterior motive on your part, but no matter. SS remains intact, ungutted and safely out of your hands.
jewcowboy
June 1st, 2011
3:00 pm
godless heathen,
“The contortions that you Obama water carriers have to go through to defend your man against any and all potential criticism is amazing.”
Actually I am not carrying water for the Obama Admin, rather than for the Bush Admin. The report it for vehicles from 2009 – 2010. As I pointed out to Dave R. in a post yesterday:
“iWatch News is saying they increased in the 1st 2 years of the Obama admin, which means they were most likely included in a budget in 2007 or 2008, then approved, and then went through the requisition process to be delivered in 2009 – 2010.
You can blame the Democrats in Congress for approving the budgets if you want, but you really can’t blame them on the Obama admin.”
These were ordered during the Bush years a delivered in the Obama years. Again, no where are the actual vehicles described, other than as “limousines” which I have shown vary widely. In one part they are showing Crown Vics as “limousines”. Really?
USMC
June 1st, 2011
3:00 pm
“The CBO verdict: RyanCare or ‘Mediscare’”–Jay Bookman
Mediscare????
More SCARE tactics from “Bookman the Bolshevik”.
Typical Marxist
Joe Mama
June 1st, 2011
3:01 pm
jewcowboy — “In one part they are showing Crown Vics as “limousines”. Really?”
Can we anticipate our conservative friends and associates to start hatin’ on the Georgia Highway Patrol and our Governor any time now?
Thulsa Doom
June 1st, 2011
3:03 pm
Interesting how wingnuts refer to our POTUS as “boy.” Very telling into their subconscious.- Bosch
Hey Freud, uh, I mean Bosch. Perhaps you need to work on your reading comprehension skills. I did not refer to Obama as a boy. I referred to the manner in which Bibi lectured him as being like the way a man talks down to a boy. Work on your comprehension skills sir.
Josef Nix,
Joplin was a small town but most of the damage in Alabama was in Tuscaloosa which is 44 miles from downtown B-ham and only about 20 minutes from the western suburbs in the same way that Douglassville is a suburb of Atlanta. The rest of the towns throughout Bama and Georgia had some damages but its not as if 100k towns and cities were blown away.
As for all your friends who were huddled together in your house during Katrina you said several of them could buy me out 12 times over. If that’s true then these people have piles of dough and could just relax at an embassy suites or a ritz carlton for that matter for 3 months in any number of major cities within several hours drive of New Orleans- too many too mention but Houston, B’ham, cities in Fla, all come to mind. No need for them to stay with you right?
I never said it was easy Josef. Just saying we make it sound a lot harder than it actually is. Finding a commensurate job can be difficult but finding temporary housing, comfort, food, and getting new clothes are not difficult things to do- especially with insurance. People do that every day in this country.
jewcowboy
June 1st, 2011
3:05 pm
Thulsa Doom,
“And prices of homes and condos in Gulf Shores and Orange Beach did not double after Ivan.”
In Gulf Breeze and Pensacola Beach they did. And then they crashed about 1.5 years later, and doubly so when BP decided to rub its oily presence on the shore.
“offers for complexes in the same complex are 130.”
Perhaps it was because of this: “They were unhappy at how long it took to get the condo complex up and running again”
“Not going to say you are a flat out liar but your story certainly differs from what I’ve seen down there”
Why thank you….I’m not going to call you a prick, but your story differs from what I’ve seen in Pensacola, Gulf Breeze, Pensacola Beach, Ft. Walton, Mary Esther and Destin…where I grew up and have friends and relatives in the real estate industry.
jewcowboy
June 1st, 2011
3:10 pm
Joe Mama,
“Can we anticipate our conservative friends and associates to start hatin’ on the Georgia Highway Patrol and our Governor any time now?”
Thulsa Doom
June 1st, 2011
3:11 pm
@@,
Speaking of polls I saw a Rasmussen poll last night that said Obama’s approval rating was down to 48% and his disapproval rating was at 51%.
I tried to warn folks like getalife that Obama’s temporary bump up to 56% approval following the death of Bin Laden was a temporary bump.
And as America looks nervously at staglation, a 6 month low in consumer confidence, and an economy that grew by a scant 38,000 jobs last month according to ADPs new jobs report the future is clear- Obama’s approval rating is going down……down……down……… How low can it go???
Midori
June 1st, 2011
3:21 pm
Godless — strange. I had the exact same reaction to your original post.
josef nix
June 1st, 2011
3:21 pm
Thulsa
Like I said, you’re dense. The ones of means were not here long, but were here…and yes, they did Embassy Suites it in short order and then helped the less fortunate ones as well…that’s what I was trying to tell your silly self about you should have been here…you would have seen how it plays out in reality…and why here? Family, Dingbo, family. We were the base for getting in touch, a rest stop, a few days, a couple of weeks, “…have you heard from K. yet?” “I think I saw her on a film clip from Charity (she’s an ER physician)…” “What about J and L?” “They’re here in Atlanta, they’re staying at…” “What about M?” “We haven’t heard anything from them yet. J says she thinks they left before the storm hit…they were supposed to go the Jackson she thought, but D says they’re not there…” “…A and F? They’re going to relocate here…they’ll be staying with us until they can find a job and then a place to stay…” You know, all that stuff that goes on in the event of a catastrophic disaster which, evidently, you’ve never experienced…
But why am I bothering…we aren’t even speaking the same language here much less on the same subject matter…
Now…upstairs…
Thulsa Doom
June 1st, 2011
3:27 pm
jewcowboy,
Well it would appear that if as you say rents really did double that one of 2 things is apparently true. Either your famous big gubment anti-gouging law in Florida doesn’t work worth a flip- despite several places such as hotels being sued for rent gouging, and your state’s enforcment doesn’t work worth a flip, or perhaps the rent gouging portion of the bill needs to be strengthened. Or perhaps you are exaggerating the effect of Ivan. Which is it? You either exaggerating or the state of Florida having very weak anti gouging law and enforcement. I suspect its gubment since libs never exaggerate. Perhaps you can get even mo big gubment to solve the problem.
http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Price+gouging+101%3a+a+call+to+Florida+lawmakers+to+perfect+Florida%27s…-a0144567284
USMC
June 1st, 2011
3:27 pm
More of “the rules don’t apply to me” attitude from Left-wing Liberal Congressman Weiner:
http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/politics/2011/05/31/sot.bash.weiner.twitter.cnn?hpt=hp_t2
Weinergate!
USMC
June 1st, 2011
3:30 pm
As Obumbles Fumbles, the Dow Jones Tumbles……. 250 points
http://www.cnbc.com/id/43238256
2…….0……..1……2
godless heathen
June 1st, 2011
3:34 pm
How many Crown Vics and Suburbans do you think the government owns? A whole lot more than 414. inews reported that the administration put 73% more limos in service. If you don’t believe their story then take it up with them.
If they were previously budgeted then the current administration could have still canceled the order.
But that is not the mentality of the “government is good and bigger government is better crowd” who are eager to defend any expenditure and any confiscation of wealth required to support it.
Thulsa Doom
June 1st, 2011
3:34 pm
USMC,
I’m guessing its all about the jobs report. 38,000 jobs added. Horrific. Obama is going down….down….down…..