New business not creating jobs, and hasn’t for a long time
Is the current economic situation just another in a long cycle of booms and busts, growth periods and slowdowns, and thus something that will correct itself in time? Or does it reflect something more long-term, something more fundamental gone wrong in the economy?
Personally, I think that’s the most important economic question of our times. And these new numbers out of the Bureau of Labor Statistics don’t encourage me much. They suggest that new business establishment, long considered the main driver of job creation, is no longer capable of playing that role. They also demonstrate that the phenomenon is not a product of our current economic struggles, but instead can be traced back more than a decade.
As the BLS commentary notes, “the number of jobs created by establishments less than 1 year old has decreased from 4.1 million in 1994, when this series began, to 2.5 million in 2010. This trend combined with that of fewer new establishments overall indicates that the number of new jobs in each new establishment is declining.”
I don’t know how to explain it, and without an explanation it’s impossible to recommend ways to reverse it. I do know that some will automatically try to blame it on government, because that seems to be the only kind of policy debate we can have anymore. But when fundamental economic change is taking place, it usually swamps any influence that government might wield one way or the other.
– Jay Bookman
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305 comments Add your comment
Mighy Righty
May 31st, 2011
2:19 pm
Left wing management
May 31st, 2011
1:30 pm
Greed is a function of Humans. It has nothing to do with economic or
political systems and very little to do with religion. Communism, socialisim, fascism, nazism, all have their examples of greed. To try and blame capitalism as some evil producer of greed is to be very narrow sighted. Even the most unfortunate, poorest person in the poorest state has an inborn desire to better him or her self. I doubt, many who write to this site, regardless of political leanings, wouldn’t change their political view this P.M. for a tripling of their present income.
JKL2
May 31st, 2011
2:21 pm
josef nix- New Orleans is a major city…
uhhhh, thanks Joe. I don’t know what I would do without you…..
josef nix
May 31st, 2011
2:22 pm
JKL
All’s I’m saying is that there’s a big difference between relocating a small town and relocating a major city…duh…
Brosephus
Yep. My folks from New Orleans and my folks from inland Mississippi have that in common and, haven’t been to a family reunion since, but I’m willing to bet the ones from Alabama got the same finger…
Brosephus
May 31st, 2011
2:23 pm
JKL2: Those aren’t the people sitting around with their hands out, waiting for the government to “rescue” them 6 years after the fact.
Never said they were, but my original premise still applies. Those people in Mississippi bought and paid for insurance from private sector companies. After Katrina, those same companies gave Mississippians the finger left and right. When the private sector does not step up to own their responsibilities, there’s nobody else except the government left to provide those “private sector” services. The easiest way to get the government out of “private sector” business is for private sector companies to do what they’re supposed to do and quit abdicating their duties and powers to act.
Kamchak
May 31st, 2011
2:23 pm
…is for private sector companies to do what they’re supposed to do and quit abdicating their duties and powers to act.
Private sector companies are doing exactly what they’re supposed to do.
I think that you are forgetting the first rule of business — profits before all else.
AmVet
May 31st, 2011
2:23 pm
http://www.elementalescapes.com/images/big_business.gif
http://www.elementalescapes.com/images/s45_fancomic.png
JohnnyReb
May 31st, 2011
2:24 pm
(from Heritage for America and yours truly) Obama prevents new job creation as he tries to resurrect the failed welfare program – Trade Adjustment Assistance (TAA).
Obama is blocking three job-creating free trade agreements that would boost domestic jobs by increasing exports to South Korea, Panama and Columbia as he tries to resurect the failed Trade Adjustment Assistance (TAA) program that provides extensive benefits to workers displaced by foreign trade. TAA is costing taxpayers billions and billions of dollars each year and to date has produced low results. The costly program affects only a fraction of the currently unemployed — about 1 percent. There is no evidence those enrolled received better, higher-paying jobs than those who did not receive TAA benefits.
So why is Obama insisting TAA be funded before he agrees to sign the free trade agreements?
Free trade creates jobs. TAA does not.
For those of you politicallly challenged, the answer is one word – unions.
Adam
May 31st, 2011
2:28 pm
JohnnyReb: Wow. A lot of talking points rolled into one there. I give you points for not being a parrot and creatively splicing together the ingredients.
Looks kinda like a peanut butter, jelly, cheese, banana, apple, tomato, lettuce, and mayo sandwich. Not at all appetizing, probably not healthy, but all those ingredients sound good and so if you put them together surely it will be awesome!
Brosephus
May 31st, 2011
2:29 pm
JReb
I’d believe you if there was concrete evidence that “free trade agreements” resulted in a net increase in jobs here in the US. Once those agreements are signed, that’s a new area to outsource jobs to. High-tech jobs would go to Korea because of the potential of a highly educated workforce. Manual jobs would go to Panama and Colombia to take advantage of low wages.
You’re right when you say free trade creates jobs. However, those jobs are not always on US soil.
Adam
May 31st, 2011
2:30 pm
Thulsa @ 2:30: I like Lawrence O’Donnell’s take on it. “It’s day X of the ‘Sarah Palin is running for president’ mirage.”
josef nix
May 31st, 2011
2:30 pm
Brosephus
Insurance companies paying off? Do Aetna ring a bell?
Thulsa Doom
May 31st, 2011
2:30 pm
Bosch,
Sarah Palin is irrelevant except for the fact that she just drives you guys nuts. Come on now. You can admit it.
deegee
May 31st, 2011
2:33 pm
For those of you that want to blame Obama and the unions, please note that the decline started in the year 2000. During the the 8 years of the Bush presidency union membership declined, union wage increases declined, and union members have surrendered generous benefit packages. At the same time, the US shipped millions of jobs overseas. Call center and data processing jobs went to India and Eastern Europe. They were not union jobs. Combine an ambitious and educated population in India with a few thousand miles of fiber optic cable, high speed data switches and fast computers and you get US job loss.
Brosephus
May 31st, 2011
2:37 pm
josef: Do Aetna ring a bell?
That ringing sound is just your ears ringing after the crackle of that whip.
Kam: Private sector companies are doing exactly what they’re supposed to do.
I think that you are forgetting the first rule of business — profits before all else.
That’s just the modern viewpoint. Some won’t see the end coming until it hits them in the wallet. History has a way of repeating itself, and the US is not immune to not heeding the wisdom of history. We’re walking the same path that the Romans took. Once we get to the point where we’re totally dependent on the outside world to provide us with our basic necessities, we’re fu*ked. We’re pretty close, and those who think otherwise are simply fooling themselves.
If we had to mobilize our manufacturing base like we did for WWII, could we actually do it? I honestly don’t think we could. It would take us precious time to build up the manufacturing capacity to deal with something major like that.
josef nix
May 31st, 2011
2:37 pm
And for the record on “keep bailing them out.” The last time before Katrina the city flooded to catastrophic levels was Betsy in 1965. Before that, it was ‘37 and then it wasn’t the city, but St. Bernard…the feds stepped up to the plate after ‘37 and strengthened the levees. They didn’t after Betsy despite constant and consistent requests backed up by their own calculations…
And, while we’re at it, do we move the Netherlands to, oh, say Switzerland? New Orleans is not the only place in the world built below sea level…it’s just the only “developed world” one without modern systems of protection.
Bosch
May 31st, 2011
2:39 pm
Doom,
Who is Sarah Palin?
Brosephus
May 31st, 2011
2:40 pm
Imam the Patteroller’s gonna get you!
I’ll just claim mental defect by reason of melanin.
josef nix
May 31st, 2011
2:43 pm
Brosephus
Imam the Patteroller’s gonna get you!
Hillbilly D
May 31st, 2011
2:43 pm
In my opinion, it traces back to something that has been going on for a long time. In every job I’ve ever had, (going back nearly 4 decades) you’ve had people who work and those who do as little as they can. Now one would think, bosses would see that and get after the person doing the minimum. In reality, I never saw it work that way, they just shift more of the load on to the person who was working, knowing it would get done. The slacker just kept right on slacking. Now the slick bosses would give the worker the old pep talk about how they were giving you the work, “because they needed it done right” but in reality, they just knew it would get done and keep their boss off their ass.
“Push ‘em a little harder” is something I’ve often heard upper management tell a middle manager, no matter how hard the people were working. I’ve heard this when people were already working 12 hours a day. Things just aren’t right anymore but I be damned if I know how to fix it.
Adam
May 31st, 2011
2:44 pm
josef:
1) like I said, not BUILT below sea level. And a good portion of it isn’t actually below sea level
2) The feds DID fix up the levees, well, they are still working on it. The ACOE has been at it for a while but it’s starting to shape up. The unfortunate problem is there is very little help for other significant problems, such as abandoned blighted properties and other projects that require government money to fix.
I do always find it funny that New Orleans and similar areas are full of anti-federal government nuts, and then when the feds don’t help to their satisfaction when a natural disaster occurs, they get pissy.
You would think they would realize that all those tax cuts they fought for and love so much meant they wouldn’t get the same quality of help….
AmVet
May 31st, 2011
2:46 pm
Laissez-faire, free marketeers (aka profiteers) have been allowed and even encouraged to run completely amok. With disastrous results.
American BIG business used to operate from a model of enlightened self interest.
The new model is more akin to pigs at the trough.
Working Americans wages have been stagnant for decades.
CEO wages went up 240% in one decade.
Men of rapacity and arrogance have replaced those from a bygone era more interested in the common good and patriotism…
Kamchak
May 31st, 2011
2:46 pm
Hillbilly D
The solution is obvious. Shoot the bosses.
josef nix
May 31st, 2011
2:51 pm
Brosephus
“I’ll just claim mental defect by reason of melanin”
And get by Scot (or is that Ibou) free?
And that timing thingie…we DO know each other too well…
Mighy Righty
May 31st, 2011
2:51 pm
deegee
May 31st, 2011
2:33 pm
“For those of you that want to blame Obama and the unions, please note that the decline started in the year 2000.”
You are correct about the union decline, but it started in 1945. Most workers understand the unions are just another big business out to get their money.
deegee
May 31st, 2011
2:52 pm
I want to hear the great patriot, Sarah Palin explain how it is that large American companies with an international presence can justify investing their money and human resources in foreign lands and tell their American workers that the company’s vision is now focused on Asia. They aren’t even giving us lip service anymore. They are telling us that we Americans are not the future of the company. They have their sights set on Asia because of their billions of young consumers. We pay our taxes, salute the flag, sing God Bless America while our bosses are telling us that we aren’t important to them. What don’t we demand more from them?
Brosephus
May 31st, 2011
2:53 pm
And get by Scot (or is that Ibou) free?
And you know this!!! I think the timing thing is just indicative of great minds thinking alike.
mm
May 31st, 2011
2:54 pm
New business, old business. Anyone with half a brain knows the Chamber of Commerce is conspiring with wingnut business owners to keep unemployment high while Obama is in office.
Poor Boy from Alabama
May 31st, 2011
2:56 pm
JB,
Government regulations are clearly part of the problem. We’re making it harder to start and operate a business by the day.
The Small Business Administration periodically authorizes a study that estimates the federal regulatory costs per employee by business size. As of 2008, regulatory compliance costs for firms with less than 20 employees was $10,585. That number is up significantly from 2004, when it was $7,647. The comparable number for firms with between 24 and 500 employees was $7,454 in 2008 and $5,411 in 2004.
Keep in mind that these costs and their associated red tape are always there, whether a company makes a profit or not. Also keep in mind that the SBA estimates do not include state and local regulatory costs. Those are extra.
Use this link to see the SBA report (Table 1):
http://archive.sba.gov/advo/research/rs371tot.pdf
When faced with high and growing regulatory costs per employee, it’s not surprising that young companies would do more with fewer workers. Technology, outsourcing, and highly integrated supply chains make this easier than it was years ago. .
There are other factors that would tend to depress hiring by young firms, but a $10,585 regulatory burden per employee sure doesn’t help!
josef nix
May 31st, 2011
2:57 pm
ADAM
The fix in the works still doesn’t meet what’s needed…and, for the sake of argument, New Orleans isn’t exactly a hot bed of anti-fed sentiment…as for the blighted properties, etc, what the hell, the port’s open and the colorful natives are doing their folk dances for the tourists…all is well…
Adam
May 31st, 2011
2:57 pm
josef: Sure it doesn’t meet what is needed for a MASSIVE storm like Katrina, under certain conditions. But remember, the levees weren’t up to code when Katrina went through and the levees ALMOST survived. I say almost because we all know how bad things got, but ultimately what has been fixed up is more up to code than is needed for the exact same disaster happening twice. I’ll take it, even if I think more should be done.
josef nix
May 31st, 2011
2:59 pm
Brosephus
Great minds! Yeah. Said something to Unmentionable about that and he said, “either that or small minds occupying the same cramped space.”
N-GA
May 31st, 2011
2:59 pm
Okay…let’s open this up just a little.
Look at a simple plastic ruler or protractor. If you walk into any store you will NOT find one of these made in America! These things are made of plastic, a petroleum product that cost the same in most countries. The manufacturing process use plastic injection molds. The process requires virtually no labor…the main costs are materials and the capital cost of equipment!
So why are they all imported? Because some American “businessman” can literally start a company in the US, then contact a Chinese engineer to draw the product specifications. He then negotiates a contract with a Chinese company to manufacture the products, has them shipped here and sells them to Walmart and other retailers. Small wonder.
Now here is something even more “in your face”. More Americans are opting to be cremated. You just have to laugh at the irony of American veterans being cremated only to have their ashes placed in an urn manufactured in China, Korea, Thailand, Malaysia, or Taiwan (pick one). The urn might even have an emblem noting USA, USN, USAF or USMC on the lid! Yes, there are some urns made in the USA, but most of the urns offered by funeral directors are made in Asia….you know they need to maximize their profits, too!
mm
May 31st, 2011
3:00 pm
I saw a bumper sticker the other day that spoke volumes:
“Not Hiring until 2012″
Wingnuts loves them some bumper stickers.
deegee
May 31st, 2011
3:01 pm
Mighty Righty, I am referring to the decline in the chart above. That decline started in 2000, not 1945. I am not defending everything that goes on with unions. I do appreciate the fact that they exist. I wouldn’t want to see them disappear.
Can someone please explain to me why there are hundreds of job listings for web developers, SAP experts, sharepoint developers, VoIP and voice application experts, systems analysts, and IT project managers, yet we are all worked up over the minimum wage? What is wrong with people in this country today? Are we so lame that we think that we can’t learn how to write software applications or configure complex network infrastructure?
Mighy Righty
May 31st, 2011
3:01 pm
Does anyone remember when Obama first bombed Libya he said we would “only be there a matter of days, not weeks.” Well, we are in week ten now!
poison pen
May 31st, 2011
3:03 pm
DeeGee, the union membership has been declining for over 15 years and it’s still declining, please get your facts straight.
Brosephus
May 31st, 2011
3:03 pm
josef
I like his explanation better. I’ll have to petition for trademark rights to use that one!!
N-GA
You’re sounding anti-business and anti-American with that post. //sarc//
Mighy Righty
May 31st, 2011
3:05 pm
N-GA
May 31st, 2011
2:59 pm
“Okay…let’s open this up just a little.”
True, true. Before you could make those little plastic rulers in this country, you probably would have to get an EPA approval and the hazardous waste disposal would cost more than the entire cost of having them made overseas. Most business’ in this country could expand starting tommorrow if we closed the E.P.A.
poison pen
May 31st, 2011
3:06 pm
Adam
May 31st, 2011
2:57 pm
josef: Sure it doesn’t meet what is needed for a MASSIVE storm like Katrina, under certain conditions. But remember, the levees weren’t up to code when Katrina went through and the levees ALMOST survived. I say almost because we all know how bad things got, but ultimately what has been fixed up is more up to code than is needed for the exact same disaster happening twice. I’ll take it, even if I think more should be done.
Adam, the Japanese thought their reactors were up to code +….Just sayin.
Bosch
May 31st, 2011
3:08 pm
“Well, we are in week ten now!”
And how many troops have died? And how much money have we borrowed from China? And whose in control?
Bosch
May 31st, 2011
3:09 pm
And for that matter Mighty — how many troops do we have on the ground in Libya?
josef nix
May 31st, 2011
3:09 pm
ADAM
I maintain that it’s a lot of quick fix at work. I am more in favor of a major regional “upgrade” along the lines of the plans offered by the Dutch following the disaster…and such a project WOULD put a lot of people to work…there just doesn’t seem to be any long-range planning ahead at work here…
Bosch
May 31st, 2011
3:10 pm
mm,
Don’t you just want to shake your head at something so dumb ass?
Brosephus
May 31st, 2011
3:11 pm
Most business’ in this country could expand starting tommorrow if we closed the E.P.A.
And we could probably decrease our usage of lights at night once the water, the ground, and/or we start glowing too.
Adam
May 31st, 2011
3:13 pm
poison pen: They were. Just not up to DEATHQUAKE code :p
Adam
May 31st, 2011
3:14 pm
josef: I agree, that would be a better solution. I think the sticking point is probably “who pays for that?”
deegee
May 31st, 2011
3:15 pm
So what’s your point, poison pen? My point is that some people are focused on union activity being the catalyst for the decline in jobs created by establishments of less than 1 year old. If union membership and power have been on the decline for 15 years as you say, then you need to start looking somewhere else. What purpose does it serve to harp on an irrelevant point if you are trying to get to a root cause?
Mighy Righty
May 31st, 2011
3:16 pm
Bosch
May 31st, 2011
3:08 pm
“Well, we are in week ten now!”
And how many troops have died? And how much money have we borrowed from China? And whose in control?g
Actual cost is now something in excess of two billion dollars and climbing. No casualties so far but it is hard to tell since we, credit all deaths in Afghanistan to NATO troops. So who really knows.
Brosephus
May 31st, 2011
3:18 pm
DEATHQUAKE code
Maybe they should have used this as a test model..
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6m213_housequake-live-1987_music
josef nix
May 31st, 2011
3:18 pm
ADAM
Who pays? The feds…pay up on some of those 1803 promises!
Adam
May 31st, 2011
3:19 pm
Mighy Righty:
$2 BILLION!!!!! SAY IT AIN’T SO!
I thought Obama went on a trip to India with the entire Navy blockading the ports to protect him and costing about 1/10 of that PER DAY.
Bosch
May 31st, 2011
3:20 pm
“Oh me, Oh my, the sky is falling.”
Says the guy getting all aswoon over Libya….
Adam
May 31st, 2011
3:20 pm
deegee: What purpose does it serve to harp on an irrelevant point if you are trying to get to a root cause?
There’s the rub. They’re not trying to get at a root cause, they are just trying to do massive “right wing socioeconomic engineering”
Hillbilly D
May 31st, 2011
3:21 pm
I don’t see how unions could have anything to do with this trend. I’d think the number of startup businesses that are union shops, would be mighty small.
deegee
May 31st, 2011
3:21 pm
I give up, Adam. It’s like talking to my 85 year old mother that keeps Fox News on all day and night because she wants them to have good ratings, and electricity is included in her rent at the retirement home. She told me again yesterday that Barney Frank and his boyfriend caused the recession. Why bother.
Mighy Righty
May 31st, 2011
3:22 pm
Brosephus
May 31st, 2011
3:11 pm
“And we could probably decrease our usage of lights at night once the water, the ground, and/or we start glowing too.”
Oh me, Oh my, the sky is falling.
Brosephus
May 31st, 2011
3:22 pm
I don’t see how unions could have anything to do with this trend. I’d think the number of startup businesses that are union shops, would be mighty small.
And the voice of reason booms in the midst of the sea of jackassery.
Bosch
May 31st, 2011
3:24 pm
Let’s do the time warp again………
Brosephus
May 31st, 2011
3:28 pm
Oh me, Oh my, the sky is falling.
Nope, the sky is not falling. However, to totally ignore past performance when evaluating future possibilities would only set yourself up for the ultimate case of Murphy’s Law. As innocent and sensible as your “get rid of the EPA” may sound, it would merely be the springboard to any possible combination of cost-cutting measures and short cuts where the citizens would bear the ultimate burden of the reprecussions of those actions. Any attempts to use the court system to seek compensation for any wrongdoings would be rebuffed by the current era of corporate jurisprudence we’re living in.
The EPA is pretty much like other enforcement agencies within the goverment in that they’ve become toothless Bassett Hounds when we need the protection of highly trained German Shepherds. The past 30-40 years have seen the gutting of funding for so much regulating and enforcing, I don’t even understand why those on the right complain about regulations. My words on this screen has more enforcement potential than most regulations in the book. Regulations without enforcement are nothing more than words in space.
josef nix
May 31st, 2011
3:33 pm
Brosephus…
That thing about government regulation and the right…I always thought that this WAS the right’s bailiwick and that liberalism was opposed to such government restrictions…wasn’t it King Richard the Not-a-Crook who gave us the EPA to begin with?
Bosch
May 31st, 2011
3:33 pm
Wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute…..so….the grandma bandit was a dude???
jt
May 31st, 2011
3:34 pm
I hope the EPA and OSHA are watching these guys closely……………..wouldn’t want anyone to get hurt.
L-3 Interstate Electronics Corp. in Anaheim, technicians work in secure rooms developing a GPS guidance system for a 13-pound “smart bomb” that would be attached to small, low-flying drone.
Engineers in Simi Valley at AeroVironment Inc. are developing a mini-cruise missile designed to fit into a soldier’s rucksack, be fired from a mortar and scour the battlefield for enemy targets.
And in suburban Portland, Ore. Voxtel Inc. is concocting an invisible mist to be sprayed on enemy fighters and make them shine brightly in night-vision goggles.
These miniature weapons have one thing in common: They all are lauched from tiny drones.
The United States of Drones.
Brosephus
May 31st, 2011
3:34 pm
josef
That would be Classical Liberalism, not to be confused with the current definition of liberalism. Current liberalism is all about getting into the wallets of the rich and making regulations to follow regulations after paying for regulations.
wasn’t it King Richard the Not-a-Crook who gave us the EPA to begin with?
You have to remember, somewhere along the line, the flux capacitor jammed and things got reversed. Or in simpler terms, they were for it before they were against it.
Adam
May 31st, 2011
3:36 pm
Brosephus: As innocent and sensible as your “get rid of the EPA” may sound
That never sounded innocent or sensible to me. It sounds like “KILL THEM ALL” or perhaps a more muted “I want to get rid of everything that has any small amount of waste, real or perceived”
josef nix
May 31st, 2011
3:37 pm
OSHA? Ain’t that one another one from King Richard? That man was an arch liberal it looks like…
Brosephus
May 31st, 2011
3:38 pm
Wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute…..so….the grandma bandit was a dude???
Dude, you’re late!!!!!
Adam
Hence the qualifier “May”. I don’t care for regulations, but I know they are an evil burden to bear. I think there are those who would look out for everyone’s best interest without regulations, but I know there’s another group who would say F’ the world, and do whatever it took to maximize profits, even if it meant killing a few customers in the process. Only in some utopia, complete with skittle-pooping unicorns, would we be able to live regulation-free lives.
Outside Observer
May 31st, 2011
3:39 pm
I would think that the fact that the levels of taxation and regulation have generally been reduced over the last 30 years, and particularly over the last 10 years, would tend to indicate that our current economic ills have not been caused by excessive taxation and regulation. But I guess as long as there remains any taxation or regulation whatsoever that some will continue to make this argument.
I actually don’t think that tinkering at the edges with our tax code, or with monetary policy, or minor regulatory cahnges will solve much if any of our current economic problems, especially under employment. I fear that the problems are much bigger and fundamental and will require major “outside the box” changes — but nothing like that is even remotely on the table politically these days. Instead we continue to quibble about small adjustments to levels of taxation, spending, and regulation.
deegee
May 31st, 2011
3:40 pm
Hillbilly D, in the mind of the conservative right, entrepreneurs will keep hiring to a minimum because they fear that their employees might gang up on them and start a union. It’s the same argument they make about government regulation. The right wing will claim that entrepreneurs will purposely keep their head count low so that they can avoid regulation. I suppose that there are some business owners who might think that way. I can’t imagine how successful they can be. A successful entrepreneur is focused on growing their business by offering their customer a good product at a competitive price. They don’t sit around wringing their hands over the prospect of having to hire someone else because business is so good that they need more help.
Adam
May 31st, 2011
3:42 pm
But I guess as long as there remains any taxation or regulation whatsoever that some will continue to make this argument.
There will always be something to blame. And if we fall for the BS that _____ is to blame for everything SO GET RID OF IT, we will just end up in an even worse situation.
The right wing needs to be saved from their own dumb policy ideas sometimes.
Adam
May 31st, 2011
3:43 pm
deegee: They don’t sit around wringing their hands over the prospect of having to hire someone else because business is so good that they need more help.
BINGO
JohnnyReb
May 31st, 2011
3:44 pm
re, unions affecting new jobs.
The mighty WalMart intends to build stores having an in-store bakery in the city limits of Chicago NOW that they have completed negotiations with unions.
For those boys and girls politically challenged, that means unions have been keeping WalMart, America’s number one retailer, from expanding in the Chicago market, therefore preventing new job opportunities.
josef nix
May 31st, 2011
3:46 pm
A little sidelight here…just checked downstairs and there was a post by a WOW…but just one…could it be, nyanh..surely not…
Brosephus
May 31st, 2011
3:47 pm
Outside Observer
Quite the astute observation. If I were you, I would remain outside as to not cloud your judgement and/or thinking. Someone has to be able to lead the masses out of the darkness and wilderness into the promised land.
JohnnyReb
May 31st, 2011
3:49 pm
Today’s final lesson for the politically challenged.
Those big bad American corporations moved jobs overseas for one reason – to maintain profit margins. Without profits, the company goes under and no one will have a job. Corporate tax rates in America are high compared to the rest of the world. Unions, with help from the political left, have pushed wages/benfits in America to levels not competitive with the rest of the world. And last but certainly not least, government agencies such as the EPA and OSHA have tied the hands of corporate America making it almost impossible to compete with the rest of the world. But don’t worrry, as you starve to death the water will be clean and clear, and the air free of hydro carbons.
Bosch
May 31st, 2011
3:54 pm
“They don’t sit around wringing their hands over the prospect of having to hire someone else because business is so good that they need more help.”
And I know of NO ONE that would NOT hire someone because they are skeered of the big bad Socialist Obama — that’s stoopid.
~~~
Brosephus,
You are SoCo, right? And so, I missed the grandma bandit is a dude conversation??? Dang.
josef nix
May 31st, 2011
3:55 pm
hillbilly
Same here. Wonder if this is somebody new who doesn’t know?
And, hey, y’all I gotta go upstairs…fun, fun, fun…
Hillbilly D
May 31st, 2011
3:56 pm
josef
I saw that post by WOW and maybe it was just me but it didn’t seem like something he would say.
poison pen
May 31st, 2011
3:56 pm
deegee
May 31st, 2011
3:21 pm
I give up, Adam. It’s like talking to my 85 year old mother that keeps Fox News on all day and night because she wants them to have good ratings, and electricity is included in her rent at the retirement home. She told me again yesterday that Barney Frank and his boyfriend caused the recession. Why bother.
DeeGee, maybe you should have listened to her.
Brosephus
May 31st, 2011
3:56 pm
Without profits, the company goes under and no one will have a job.
What happens when nobody has a job because all the jobs are shipped overseas? Can’t create profits where people don’t have money to spend. Seems like our corporate job providers haven’t thought enough about that. We can’t run a country based on Wal Mart salaries alone.
Hillbilly D
May 31st, 2011
3:57 pm
Last I heard, Walmart was doing fairly well in the profit department. Maybe selling baked goods in Chicago will break them?
Kamchak
May 31st, 2011
3:58 pm
For those boys and girls politically challenged, that means unions have been keeping WalMart, America’s number one retailer, from expanding in the Chicago market, therefore preventing new job opportunities.
OH NOES! THOSE POOR CHICAGOANS ARE UNABLE TO GET ANY BAKED GOODS AT ALL
Brosephus
May 31st, 2011
4:00 pm
Bosch
It’s me!!! I figured my 3:28 post should have given me away. I think that one would have earned me hero status for the day.
I actually passed by the crash scene not too long after the chase had ended. I didn’t know what the hell was going on until another officer pulled up the news on her phone. Later on that day, I heard Wendy’s employees on the news saying that she looked like a man. I don’t think it was discussed too much on the board.
poison pen
May 31st, 2011
4:01 pm
deegee
May 31st, 2011
3:15 pm
So what’s your point, poison pen? My point is that some people are focused on union activity being the catalyst for the decline in jobs created by establishments of less than 1 year old. If union membership and power have been on the decline for 15 years as you say, then you need to start looking somewhere else. What purpose does it serve to harp on an irrelevant point if you are trying to get to a root cause?
DeeGee, please quit lying, you were being disingenuous and trying to make it look like Bush was the fault of the unions losing members with your 2000 start date.
I put 35 years in at GM and I know for a fact when our membership started dropping off. You know nothing.
Hillbilly D
May 31st, 2011
4:03 pm
What happens when nobody has a job because all the jobs are shipped overseas?
We can all sell each other fast food.
deegee
May 31st, 2011
4:03 pm
The world’s largest retailer announced plans last year to open several dozen stores across the city in a five-year plan called “Chicago Community Investment Partnership.” The goal is to create 12,000 jobs and generate $500 million in tax revenue. The first Wal-mart that opened in Chicago in 2006 was fought by labor who claimed unfair wages. Labor leaders dropped their opposition last year when Wal-Mart Stores Inc. agreed to pay starting wages above the state’s minimum wage.
Again, while we quibble over a dollar an hour at WalMart, there are hundreds of unfilled high tech jobs that Americans are unprepared to fill.
Bosch
May 31st, 2011
4:08 pm
“I think that one would have earned me hero status for the day”
Brosephus,
All your posts today have been spot on!
Brosephus
May 31st, 2011
4:12 pm
We can all sell each other fast food.
That will be more fun than a barrel of monkeys!!!!!
Thulsa Doom
May 31st, 2011
4:13 pm
Consumer confidence at a 6 month low as consumers concern grows over inflation fears. Food prices up 3.9% from April of 2010 to April of 2011 and gas up 33% over the same time frame. Double dip recession? Let’s hope not.
deegee
May 31st, 2011
4:16 pm
Take a deep breath, poison pen. I said that during the the 8 years of the Bush presidency union membership declined, union wage increases declined, and union members have surrendered generous benefit packages. I didn’t say that all of that began in 2000. I said that it is incorrect to assign the decline in jobs created by establishments of less than 1 year old on Obama and unions. You are looking in the wrong place. The trend started in 2000.
Thulsa Doom
May 31st, 2011
4:19 pm
Hillbilly D
May 31st, 2011
4:03 pm
What happens when nobody has a job because all the jobs are shipped overseas?
We can all sell each other fast food.
– Hillbilly D.
I would prefer that we sell each other beer.
N-GA
May 31st, 2011
4:19 pm
All of you wingnuts who benefit from our clean air and water can move to another country where the air is unbreathable, the water undrinkable. The same with the FDA…go get medications that don’t work and food that has carcinogens in it.
Instead of being happy to be so fortunate to live in a society where our government is more concerned with its citizens and the environment, you losers would rather whine about some of the best work that our government does. Perfect? No, but damn good.
Why not lobby our politicians to enact laws that would put a tax on imports from countries where there are no environment regulations? The tax should make those goods cost at least as much as the same goods made here!
deegee
May 31st, 2011
4:27 pm
Interesting point, N-GA. I recently saw a show on one of the business channels concerning China and environmental regulations. Apparently they are beginning to think about the toxicity of their environment. The Chinese are now evaluating the cost of clean water and air. They showcased a chip plant that used recycled water from its own water treatment plant.
Thulsa Doom
May 31st, 2011
4:32 pm
Why not lobby our politicians to enact laws that would put a tax on imports from countries where there are no environment regulations? The tax should make those goods cost at least as much as the same goods made here!- N-GA
At this point you lose all credibility. Anyone with cursory knowledge of economics laws understands that taxes on imports- tariffs, only lead to inefficiencies, less trade, less economic output- overall we would be worse off whereas in free trade overall we are better off.
And you can’t put the same environmental regs on developing nations as you can on a developed nation like the U.S. As those countries develop and become more prosperous they will then demand and get more environmental protections from their govts. In the meantime peoples in developing nations are more concerned with the basics such as food in the belly then they are worried about the air quality or other western causes such as whales, or the snail garter or the yucca mountain red squirrel.
WrteStufLA
May 31st, 2011
4:34 pm
“I don’t know how to explain it, and without an explanation it’s impossible to recommend ways to reverse it.”
Likely due in large part to our declining manufacturing base, certainly in relative terms, and likely in absolute terms. As we continue to progress as a service economy, technological advances will allow most services — particularly value-added, higher-wage professional services — to be provided by fewer and fewer employees.
Jay, you should read-up on the history of Henry Ford’s wage policy when he was ramping up production of the Model T. At a critical point, he literally doubled the wages of all his factory workers, even as he dramatically slashed the car’s price. Partly as a preemptive move in a very competitive labor market. But mainly because he believed that the combination of raising working class wages while reducing the price would result in an immediate “mass” market for the automobile. He was right, and it kicked off a virtuous cycle that soon spread to other parts of our manufacturing base.
I use the above anecdotal example to explain our continued transformation from the “Auto Nation” into the “WalMart Nation” — where we’ll all eventually be shopping at WalMart, because we’ll all be working for WalMart Wages.
Thulsa Doom
May 31st, 2011
4:35 pm
deegee,
Case in point with China. As they are now becoming very prosperous only now are they really starting to take a look at their air and water quality. They can afford to now. 10-20 yrs ago they just didn’t care or they just couldn’t afford to worry about things like air quality when they were more worried about just having food and shelter.
N-GA
May 31st, 2011
4:40 pm
Thulsa Doom – Don’t even think about lecturing me on economics. My knowledge of economics is substantially beyond “cursory”. You saying something doesn’t make it so! Almost every country on the planet imposes tariffs. Our “trading partner”, Turkey imposes a 100% import duty.
Everything I suggested would work just fine. And I have lived for years in other countries and know from firsthand experience what it is like doing business in 3rd world countries as well as more enlightened countries. You should become more knowledgeable before you start talking down to people.
Left wing management
May 31st, 2011
4:43 pm
Mighty: “Greed is a function of Humans. It has nothing to do with economic or
political systems and very little to do with religion. Communism, socialisim, fascism, nazism, all have their examples of greed”
I’ll agree with you there. As a simple moral category, “greed” is of little use. All ages and periods and systems have it. But of those projects you mention in your list, only communism and socialism represent a genuine attempt to fulfill the promises of the space opened by capitalism.
Adam
May 31st, 2011
4:50 pm
LWM: Greed is the root of all evil. Not money. Money is a tangible form of an intangible and exists-only-when-perceived force that has replaced the exchange of goods or precious metals.
Outside Observer
May 31st, 2011
4:50 pm
“Anyone with cursory knowledge of economics laws understands that taxes on imports- tariffs, only lead to inefficiencies, less trade, less economic output- overall we would be worse off whereas in free trade overall we are better off.”
Really? I guess that was the thought when we enacted NAFTA and began fully embracing global economic free trade. But are American workers really better off today than they were before NAFTA and globalization? Doesn’t seem like it. I think 10-15 years ago many/most economists would have agreed with your pro global free trade statement. But I’m sure many are now scratching their heads and wondering about that policy with respect to the whole of the American economy, and especially the American worker.
Thulsa Doom
May 31st, 2011
5:04 pm
N-GA,
Almost every country imposes some sort of tariffs. The point is that if nobody imposed any tariffs except to protect new, nascent industries for a predetermined number of years such as 10 years we would all be better off. Introducing tariffs doesn’t work and if you truly had knowledge of basic economics you would know this.
I’ve also lived in other countries- Europe and central America. Having lived there and done business there doesn’t mean anything in regards to the long held economic law that less tariffs, less protectionism makes everyone better off overall. Just because other countries do it doesn’t make it right.
Outside Observer,
Perhaps you missed Jay’s economics test from a few weeks ago. Because you clearly missed no. 7 as did N-GA.
7. Free trade leads to unemployment.- False. Free trade meaning less tariffs leads to more employment and more prosperity overall. You both get an economics FAIL.
Let me give you another of his economics questions which is closely related which you both FAIL.
14. By participating in the marketplace in the United States, immigrants reduce the economic well-being of American citizens.- Disagree
By participating through treaties such as NAFTA we are all better off. What you are saying is that the average American worker is worse off because NAFTA for example is just another way of immigrants participating in the U.S. economy. You just violated yet another economics law.
Economics? You both FAIL.