‘American Jews aren’t as pro-Israel as they should be’
U.S. Rep. Joe Walsh, R-Ill.
This rant from U.S. Rep. Joe Walsh, Republican from Illinois, cracks me up in a sad, melancholy kind of way:
” … where is the outrage from the American Jewish community? Don’t they understand that the president is not pro-Israel? Aren’t they troubled by his history of pro-Palestinian writings, speeches, and actions? The short answer is that most American Jews are liberal, and most American liberals side with the Palestinians and vague notions of “peace” instead of with Israel’s well-being and security. Like the president, the U.N., and most of Europe, too many American Jews aren’t as pro-Israel as they should be…”
It’s just delicious: A Catholic politician from Illinois, berating and lecturing Jews because they aren’t as pro-Israel as he thinks they ought to be, being Jews and all. And of course, he gets to define what being “pro-Israel” means.
It’s similar in subtext to conservatives who lecture black Americans about “staying on the Democratic plantation,” thus implying that black voters who vote Democratic are just too stupid to know what is really good for them. Those who issue such lectures have no idea how the condescension just drips from their lips as they utter such remarks.
– Jay Bookman
Tell us what you think about the site
Customer Care »
Vacation stops, manage subscriptions and more
AJC Services
Sections
Other Editions
Visitor Agreement | Privacy Statement
© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
182 comments Add your comment
Jay
May 27th, 2011
4:31 pm
And I occupy yours, @@.
Good thing I’m not allergic to dust … look at this place!
Dusty
May 27th, 2011
4:34 pm
Mary Elizabeth @4:00
I see that once more you have told us how you know what everyone thinks. Of course, Republicans think all wrong. And our president who is continuing the use of the military and the unapproved use of American military in Africa, is extolled as a “break though” to new ways such as peace efforts.. If you haven’t noticed the numerous peace efforts the USA has instigated and researched and presented to Palestinians & Israelis, you must have been in a coma. This country has worked on peace efforts in the Middle East for years. But you haven’t noticed!.
And…beyond that, this country sends more relief efforts to world tragedies than any nation on earth or several put together. And YOU want to tell Americans that everybody is human? Like we don’t know?
Forget all the sticky truisms. “Love thy neighbor” is good enough without making it a quasi-political statement.
Liberal lefty loony Larry
May 27th, 2011
4:47 pm
Dave R.,
Just be quiet and pay me my welfare check. I’m sick and tired of you right wing reactionary nuts always complaining about paying my bills for me. And boo! W did blow up those twin towers.
Dave R.
May 27th, 2011
4:48 pm
Mary Elizabeth, maybe in your world the phrase “are not even aware of the limitations of their thinking” does not exude a superiority complex of immense proportions, but in the real world, it does.
Doggone/GA
May 27th, 2011
4:50 pm
“tends to disagree ”
means there’s still a lot of agreement
Dave R.
May 27th, 2011
4:50 pm
“Pay attention a bit and you’ll see that he doesn’t really discuss, or even WANT to discuss, anything.”
Fortunately, reality tends to disagree with you, Doggone.
In so many ways.
Mary Elizabeth
May 27th, 2011
4:51 pm
Dusty @ 4:34
I never said that I know what “everyone thinks,” And yes, I do think, that those who think as Walsh does have a limited vision because they place limitations on what others are in the fullness of their beings.
Why do you state such antagonism to me, Dusty? Of course, I know that the U.S. has tried to work on peace efforts in the Middle East for years.
There is a difference between saying that everyone is human and seeing others beyond the boundaries of their nationalities, or their religions, or their races that define people in limited boxes. I believe that that President Obama has that broader vision of seeing others because he, himself, is of multi-races, multi-religions, multi-nationalities within his own background – thanks in large part to his mother’s vision of what she wanted her children’s worldview to be.
If my words offend anyone, please listen to Obama’s words, instead, but listen to the full 42 minutes that President Obama spoke before the British Parliament, and especially to the lady who spoke following his words. Maybe his words will explain better my worldview than I can.
http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/05/25/obamas-speech-to-the-british-parliament/
You would seem to prefer that I not express myself as I, authentically, see the world, but I cannot do that, Dusty. I mean no ill will toward you, or anyone else, personally, when I express my worldview.
Left wing management
May 27th, 2011
4:52 pm
Dusty: “If you haven’t noticed the numerous peace efforts the USA has instigated and researched and presented to Palestinians & Israelis, you must have been in a coma. This country has worked on peace efforts in the Middle East for years”
Well in fairness, invading two countries in that region did nothing to further those efforts, did it?
And not to snark too much here, but when you say: “And…beyond that, this country sends more relief efforts to world tragedies than any nation on earth or several put together” you should bear in mind that for every innocent civilian killed by a US drone, you can pretty much forget the idea of the country building up loads and loads of ‘humanitarian’ capital for our relief efforts. Not saying it’s right or wrong, just saying how it is.
Liberal lefty loony Larry
May 27th, 2011
4:52 pm
You cons just mad cause Obama makes beautiful speeches that thrill everybody. No Repug con can make as good a speech as he can. Newsweek got it right! Obama is sorta like a god, above it all, looking down on us. Can you blame Chris Matthews from getting a tingle up his leg when Obama speaks? I know I get chills down my spine. Obama is solving all the country’s problems- he has fixed the deficit, fixed medicare, fixed the economy, fixed unemployment. Anything else you cons screwed up that he needs to fix?
Left wing management
May 27th, 2011
4:56 pm
By the way, Hi Mary Elizabeth. Good to see you.
Doggone/GA
May 27th, 2011
4:58 pm
“You see, reality (something you’re not very well acquainted with) ”
As I said – just waits for a chance to interject a gratuitous insult.
Mighy Righty
May 27th, 2011
4:59 pm
2:29 P.M.
Granny
The quote you reference was not a joint statement as you can see from the quote below. This was a statement from Hillary Clinton only. It has been floating around for a few days as a joint statement when the words are strictly Hillary’s. It is an attempt to Make Netanyahu look dishonest and forgive Obama’s lack of diplomacy.
11 Nov 2010:
* The Secretary reiterated that “the United States believes that through good-faith negotiations, the parties can mutually agree on an outcome which ends the conflict and reconciles the Palestinian goal of an independent and viable state, based on the 1967 lines, with agreed swaps, and the Israeli goal of a Jewish state with secure and recognized borders that reflect subsequent developments and meet Israeli security requirements.” Those requirements will be fully taken into account in any future peace agreement.
The discussions between the Prime Minister and the Secretary focused on creating the conditions for the resumption of direct negotiations aimed at producing a two-state solution.
Their teams will work closely together in the coming days toward that end.
The discussions between the Prime Minister and the Secretary focused on creating the conditions for the resumption of direct negotiations aimed at producing a two-state solution. http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/Government/Communiques/2010/Joint_statement_PM_Netanyahu_US_Sec_Clinton_11-Nov-2010.htm ISRAEL MINISTRY of FOREIGN AFFAIRS.
Mary Elizabeth
May 27th, 2011
4:59 pm
Hi, back at you, Left Wing Management! Have a great weekend. You, too, Doggone/Ga – and thanks!
Dave R.
May 27th, 2011
4:59 pm
“tends to disagree ”
means there’s still a lot of agreement”
Not so, Doggone. You see, reality (something you’re not very well acquainted with) is pretty much conclusive and not subject to much wiggle room, therefore the entirety of my statement below (minus the typical tendency of those who cannot make a point without parsing another’s comments), is spot on.
“Fortunately, reality tends to disagree with you, Doggone.”
Dave R.
May 27th, 2011
5:02 pm
“I see that once more you have told us how you know what everyone thinks.”
No, Dusty, Mary Elizabeth was actually telling us what we SHOULD think.
Mighy Righty
May 27th, 2011
5:03 pm
Granny Godzilla
May 27th, 2011
2:54 pm
From The Great Orange Satan…..
I stand by my prediction, we will see positive movement on the Israel/Palestinian issue before the 2012 election.
I believe you are right. Our relations can’t et any worse.
Doggone/GA
May 27th, 2011
5:06 pm
“Mary Elizabeth was actually telling us what we SHOULD think”
And that’s different from YOU telling ME what I SHOULD HAVE said (yesterday) how?
Doggone/GA
May 27th, 2011
5:07 pm
“because nobody else, including you or I, would ever think of coming here to do that”
Oh, it’s just his latest “hit speak” – give him a few days and he’ll find something else to pin his “zingers” on.
Jay
May 27th, 2011
5:08 pm
Yeah, Dave R., because nobody else, including you or I, would ever think of coming here to do that…. Right?
Jay
May 27th, 2011
5:08 pm
and Granny G., I very much disagree.
Balogney detector
May 27th, 2011
5:14 pm
they place limitations on what others are in the fullness of their beings. – Mary Elizabeth
Huh? What? Where do folks come up up with this mindless gobbledeegook.
Dave R.
May 27th, 2011
5:18 pm
“And that’s different from YOU telling ME what I SHOULD HAVE said (yesterday) how?”
Pointing out your arrogance in speaking for others is NOT telling you what you should think.
It is merely pointing out one of your many flaws.
@@
May 27th, 2011
5:19 pm
Ah-chooooo, jay.
Wouldn’t it be logical to assume that if you did, in fact, occupy my mind, I would’ve noticed you changed the sheets and followed? You’ve become too predictable…no spice to your blog’s life.
Have a good weekend.
Doggone/GA
May 27th, 2011
5:20 pm
“Pointing out your arrogance in speaking for others is NOT telling you what you should think”
But that isn’t what you did. You arrogantly REWORDED what I said. And then complained that I was “speaking for others” which is EXACTLY what YOU did. Presumed to speak for me.
Left wing management
May 27th, 2011
5:25 pm
Here’s a little cold water for your optimism on Israel/Palestine, Granny:
Any sensible Israeli government (these days perhaps a contradiction in terms) would jump at this as a basis for negotiation, or at least as an opportunity to make the Arabs appear to be rejectionists who oppose the wishes of Washington. It is an indication of how far Israel has swung to the right that this was not Netanyahu’s immediate reaction. But he heads a coalition government whose only common denominator is a commitment to settlement expansion, holding on to occupied Palestinian territory, and opposition to serious negotiations with the Palestinians.
The campaign for the American presidential elections of 2012 is already underway. Obama and the Democrats are already in defensive mode as they face vicious sniping from Republican leaders about “throwing Israel under the bus,” “betrayal of the only democracy in the Middle East” and so forth. The Israeli-Palestinian issue has already become a political football, and the American adage that politics stops at the water’s edge clearly does not apply to it.
Given the ongoing revolutionary changes in the Arab world, and their profound impact on the Palestinians, as could be seen in the inter-Palestinian reconciliation, and the march of Palestinians to the borders of Israel from five directions on May 15, events in the Middle East have in any case passed President Obama by. This is not only because his hands are tied by the onset of the presidential election campaign. He is also the victim of the bad advice of veterans like Dennis Ross, who have helped steer administrations since that of Ronald Reagan in the wrong direction.
In view of these factors, there should be no surprise that where actual peacemaking is concerned, Washington is a day late and a dollar short.
http://www.salon.com/news/politics/war_room/2011/05/27/rashid_khalidi_obama_palestine/index.html
Left wing management
May 27th, 2011
5:26 pm
And U.S. Rep. Joe Walsh is a prime example of the barbarization, stupefaction of the thinking of US leaders on foreign policy.
Which translates to = rigor mortis of an empire that’s just not up to snuff.
Dave R.
May 27th, 2011
5:31 pm
Jay, I have no problem with anyone trying to make their case with facts and logic to try to change another person’s viewpoint.
Blanket statements like “Republicans are not even aware of the limitations of their thinking” is not even remotely intended to change another person’s mind. It is merely the arrogance of the left when they have nothing else on which to hang their hat. How many times have we heard that those who disagreed with HCR just didn’t understand it, only to be proven correct once the bill was actually passed? How many times have conservatives been branded as racist for disagreeing with this President, when most would agree that “racist” is used as code word by the left to equate conservatives with being stupid, inbred Rednecks?
Well THIS free, independent and independent THINKING American is damned tired of being talked down to like a fifth grader. I’m not above throwing out the occasional insult (although usually intended in good humor), but that comes from being called ’stupid” and “limited in my thinking” too many times from those on the left who are as intellectually-bereft as they come.
So “Thhhbbbppptt!” to you and the horse you rode in on, Jay!
Dave R.
May 27th, 2011
5:36 pm
“But that isn’t what you did. You arrogantly REWORDED what I said. And then complained that I was “speaking for others” which is EXACTLY what YOU did. Presumed to speak for me.”
Don’t ever enter a field of endeavor that requires writing or reading skills full-time, Doggone.
Nuance is lost on you.
Left wing management
May 27th, 2011
5:42 pm
Dave R: “How many times have conservatives been branded as racist for disagreeing with this President, when most would agree that “racist” is used as code word by the left to equate conservatives with being stupid, inbred Rednecks”
I can’t think of a single instance.
I’m serious. Name one.
What HAS however been branded as ‘racist’ is the absolute refusal to believe that the man was born in the US. And even then, the commentators I’ve heard have only come to this conclusion with great caution.
So I’m inclined to view this claim that the racism card is being wielded to excess as a straw man, or am I missing something?
Balogney detector
May 27th, 2011
5:50 pm
You would seem to prefer that I not express myself as I, authentically, see the world, but I cannot do that.
As I , authentically, see the world. Mary E.
If my words offend anyone, please listen to Obama’s words, instead, but listen to the full 42 minutes that President Obama spoke before the British Parliament
So people see the world authentically?
As if speeches actually solve problems.
Balogney detector
May 27th, 2011
5:51 pm
Race card pulled! It was only a matter of time.
Balogney detector
May 27th, 2011
5:54 pm
I will never place a limitation on a liberal’s “fullness of being” being that they are often full of it.
Mary Elizabeth
May 27th, 2011
5:54 pm
Dave R @ 5:31
I did not read about your encounter yesterday with Doggone/GA, however I do not that you have cut and pasted my words in your 5:31 post today.
I never said “Republicans are not even aware of the limitations of their thinking.”
What I did say in my first post today at 4:00 p.m. was: “The sad part is that Walsh, and conservative Republicans who think as he does, are not even aware of the limitations of their thinking.”
The key phrase in what I have said was “and conservative Republicans who think as he does” which you have left out at 5:31 when you quoted me. That does not include all Republicans, just certain ones, but you deliberately cut that out when you quoted my words at 5:31.
If you would do that editing with my words, then I believe you would do that with Doggone/GA’s words, also.
Dave R.
May 27th, 2011
5:56 pm
LWM, code word.
I do not have to go back through the entirety of every discussion on this thread to pull out that which has been written time and time again. You’ve been on here long enough to have witnessed this if you are to be intellectually honest. How many times have we seen “You just can’t stand him because he’s black”? Too many to count. A purely racist accusation, but one that is never followed up with any logical or factual discussion points.
And in case you missed it, pulling out the “birther” card doesn’t work with me. I’m the one on here that tried repeatedly to shut down that nonsense. Yours in one of deflection, which is the usual tact taken when one cannot admit that the other person has a valid point.
Doggone/GA
May 27th, 2011
6:05 pm
“Don’t ever enter a field of endeavor that requires writing or reading skills full-time”
and yet more insults, and more telling me what I should or should not do.
Left wing management
May 27th, 2011
6:09 pm
Dave R., ok, I see. I thought you meant the wider world of punditry. Of course on here you see all kinds of wild and irresponsible claims. Not that either you or I are guilty of that.
Kamchak
May 27th, 2011
6:13 pm
How many times have conservatives been branded as racist for disagreeing with this President, when most would agree that “racist” is used as code word by the left to equate conservatives with being stupid, inbred Rednecks?
Not intended to be a factual statement.
Thulsa Doom
May 27th, 2011
6:18 pm
“are not even aware of the limitations of their thinking.”
I once had a professor lecture us on the difference between competent and incompetent people which ties in to this conversation.
Competent people are very aware of their limitations. They are competent because they learn and as they learn they realize how much they don’t know and have yet to know. They realize their past and future levels of incompetence and the sheer volume of things that they don’t know.
Incompetent people are too stupid too realize their own incompetence and their own level of ignorance and not knowin. They haven’t learned enough to learn just how much they don’t know and thus realize their own limitations and incompetence.
As far as limitations go its clear to me that this conservative simply may be spouting off his incompetence of knowing how Jews should think. Fair enough.
As far as overall levels of incompetence and being aware of your own limitations between cons and libs it all comes down to which group generally speaking has less education, less income, etc. That group would be the one that truly has more incompetents who are unaware of their thinking limitations. I’ll leave it to you guys to figure out between the average Dem and the average Repub which party has a more educated voter base.
Kamchak
May 27th, 2011
6:21 pm
Incompetent people are too stupid too realize their own incompetence and their own level of ignorance and not knowin[sic]. They haven’t learned enough to learn just how much they don’t know and thus realize their own limitations and incompetence.
The smoking gun is the mushroom cloud.
Thulsa Doom
May 27th, 2011
6:21 pm
“You just can’t stand him because he’s black”?- Who would make such a blanket statement showing their own limitations of thinking about others? Hmmm! Not the libs. Or would they?
Dave R.
May 27th, 2011
6:21 pm
“The key phrase in what I have said was “and conservative Republicans who think as he does” which you have left out at 5:31 when you quoted me. That does not include all Republicans, just certain ones, but you deliberately cut that out when you quoted my words at 5:31.”
Pardon me, Mary Elizabeth, for note quoting the entirely of your arrogant statement a second time.
Dave R.
May 27th, 2011
6:23 pm
“Not intended to be a factual statement.”
Then back up your assertion, Kamchak, with something other than a drive-by comment.
It would be your first time on Jay’s blog. I look forward to it.
Doggone/GA
May 27th, 2011
6:23 pm
“Incompetent people are too stupid too realize their own incompetence and their own level of ignorance and not knowin[sic]. They haven’t learned enough to learn just how much they don’t know and thus realize their own limitations and incompetence.”
Self-awareness is the first step
Thulsa Doom
May 27th, 2011
6:26 pm
Its working. Doggone is in the self awareness and self actualization process.
Mary Elizabeth
May 27th, 2011
6:28 pm
Balogney Detector words @ 5:50
“So people see the world authentically?
As if speeches actually solve problems.”
——————————————
I used the word “authentically” to refer only to my expression of my thoughts – not about there being only one worldview.
Speeches contain vision and one must have a vision before that vision can become manifest as reality. Look at the vision of MLKjr with his “I have a Dream” speech. It was first a vision in his mind, then he put that vision into a speech to share it with others, and finally that vision became reality (or is in the continuing process of becoming reality.)
(And, I might add, MLKjr. did not give a litany of facts when he shared his “I Have a Dream” speech with the masses; he instead shared his vision of a passion in his soul that resonated so much with other souls that his vision – shared in his speech – became reality in time.)
——————————————-
Balogney’s words at 5:54:
“I will never place a limitation on a liberal’s ‘fullness of being’ being that they are often full of it.”
——————————————————————
“‘Fullness of being” simply means that you, and I, and everyone else on Earth has more within themselves than can be simply defined by externals. Not to accept that as true IS to place limitations on yourself and others.
I had explained earlier than some of those externals that limitedly define us are one’s race, religion, nationality, etc. We are all, on Earth, more than any of these narrowly defined parts of ourselves – they are externals. We would be better to look inside ourselves, and others, for deeper and fuller understanding, and the more we look for our commonality with others, the sooner we will have peace on this planet.
I am gone for the day. Listen to the music Jay posted and enjoy. Good wishes to all.
There is a difference between saying that everyone is human and seeing others beyond the boundaries of their nationalities, or their religions, or their races that define people in limited boxes
But here are actually my words that explained “fullness of being” in my post to Dusty:
Thulsa Doom
May 27th, 2011
6:28 pm
Kammy makes drive by comments?
A very factual statement.
Kamchak
May 27th, 2011
6:29 pm
Then back up your assertion, Kamchak…
You seem to be laboring under the misapprehension that I somehow answer to you.
Dusty
May 27th, 2011
6:36 pm
Mary Elizabeth,
There is no need to reply to you. Your blind egotism is unshakable. Your “worldwide ” view comes across as hero worship. You feel you must present your views because the “peasants” don’t understand.
We understand all right even when it is coated with sugar. Allow us the liberty of doing without your direction. Even those of us with “blind vision” can manage.
Of course I wish you peaches and cream and the American dream. !! And…. with my very own WORLDWIDE VIEW. Imagine!!! I had a good one even before Obama came into the picture. .
Thulsa Doom
May 27th, 2011
6:38 pm
You seem to be laboring under the misapprehension that I somehow answer to you.- kammy
And yet he answers Dave anyway-albeit it with another juvenile drive by as opposed to a logical argument- something he deems himself as incapable of making with his very obvious lack of intelligible points. Carry on Sport!
Dave R.
May 27th, 2011
6:38 pm
“You seem to be laboring under the misapprehension that I somehow answer to you.”
Never. One cannot answer to anyone when one cannot answer at all.
That summarizes your participation level on any AJC blog, Kamchak. Which is why no one takes you seriously.
Dave R.
May 27th, 2011
6:41 pm
“There is no need to reply to you. Your blind egotism is unshakable. Your “worldwide ” view comes across as hero worship. You feel you must present your views because the “peasants” don’t understand.
We understand all right even when it is coated with sugar. Allow us the liberty of doing without your direction. Even those of us with “blind vision” can manage.”
Dusty, TESTIFY!
Thulsa Doom
May 27th, 2011
6:42 pm
Dusty
May 27th, 2011
6:36 pm
Mary Elizabeth,
There is no need to reply to you. Your blind egotism is unshakable. Your “worldwide ” view comes across as hero worship. You feel you must present your views because the “peasants” don’t understand. – Dusty
Dusty,
I believe you are missing Mary E’s point- her point being that perty speeches solve everyday problems. So if people like you would just get with the program and say Hopey changey and Yes! We can! then by golly mary e is correct and the deficit will disappear, medicare and SS funding problems will be solved as well as unemployment, and then we can all sing kumbaya and eat chocolately unicorns from liberal fantasy land. Hopey changey Dusty!
Dusty
May 27th, 2011
6:43 pm
OH no. Fullness of being AGAIN!!
Which reminds me. Dinnertime!! Many beings here desire to be full.
Thank you, Mary Elizabeth. I hope we stay within our limitations at the table.
Thulsa Doom
May 27th, 2011
6:45 pm
Dave R.,
I’m trying to see “the fullness” of Obama. He is “sorta like a god, above it, looking down on it all” just like newsweek said. I wish he could tell another perty speech so that I could get a tingle up my leg.
Thulsa Doom
May 27th, 2011
6:50 pm
That summarizes your participation level on any AJC blog, Kamchak. Which is why no one takes you seriously.- Dave R.
I gotta slightly disagree with ya Dave R. I take my kammy humor very seriously. I usually laugh when I see his posts. Its like watching my 5 and 6 year old nieces just waiting to see what kinda silly thing they’re going to say and do next. If children don’t amuse you then neither will Kammy.
Thulsa Doom
May 27th, 2011
6:52 pm
I’m out. Yall have a good weekend.
Dave R.
May 27th, 2011
7:04 pm
Out as well.
Remember that the long weekend you are enjoying is made possible by the ultimate sacrifices of American men and women who were willing to put their lives on the line defending the ideals on which this nation was founded.
And not to put too fine a point on it, but the vast majority of them are the very conservatives and Republicans the left on this blog like to dismiss and belittle.
Those that can, do.
Mary Elizabeth
May 27th, 2011
7:13 pm
Tulsa Doom @ 6:42
“Dusty,
I believe you are missing Mary E’s point- her point being that perty speeches solve everyday problems. So if people like you would just get with the program and say Hopey changey and Yes! We can! then by golly mary e is correct and the deficit will disappear, medicare and SS funding problems will be solved as well as unemployment, and then we can all sing kumbaya and eat chocolately unicorns from liberal fantasy land. Hopey changey Dusty!”
————————————
Tulsa, that mockery of my thinking that you have just stated is pitiful. It takes a very small soul to post something like you have just posted. You have no idea how my mind works or thinks. But your post does say a great deal about you.
And the fact that Dave R could not simply apologize for so grossly cutting and pasting my comments to make it appear that I think in stereotypes about Republicans speaks more about him than about me.
I will be the first to admit that I must deal with arrogance in my heart, on occasion, but today was not a day that I expressed any arrogance in my thinking. I was trying to appeal to the better angels in the souls of all others, to see their commonality with others, unlike Rep. Walsh is able to do, evidently.
I have no “hero worship” of President Obama. I simply think we are blessed to have a man of his vision and intellect for our president at this critical time in our history.
Why is it that my most passionate critics are Tulsa Doom, Dave R, and Dusty? I think that you three, based on what you have said to or about me today, should be incentive for you to look into your own hearts instead of into mine. I think you protest too much.
You will not keep me from expressing my thinking by your mockery and insults of me. I speak because I believe I have a voice that needs to be heard, especially in this section of our nation, where voices such as mine are not often heard. I am not trying deliberately to antagonize anyone. I will pray that bitterness toward you will not enter my heart and that I will continue to speak with
goodwill in my heart for all others.
SaveOurRepublic
May 27th, 2011
7:31 pm
The POTUS should NOT be pro-Israel OR pro-Muhamedan (state). This business of “policing” the world needs to end. BHO should heed the sage advise of President Washington & avoid such foreign entanglements. We need to extract ALL troops from the middle east (& around the globe for that matter) and let the Zionists & Muhamedans scrap it out amongst themselves. AIPAC has far too much stroke on “Cr@pitol sHill”.
Left wing management
May 27th, 2011
8:23 pm
Dave R.: “And not to put too fine a point on it, but the vast majority of them are the very conservatives and Republicans the left on this blog like to dismiss and belittle”
Those soldiers might have been “conservatives” in some basic sense, but I’m sure they would have had nothing but contempt for what the current GOP stands for, which is a grotesque perversion of conservativism.
Kamchak
May 27th, 2011
9:16 pm
Those that can, do.
Those that can’t, secede.
Or not, in your case.
TnGelding
May 27th, 2011
9:33 pm
Time to admit its creation was huge blunder and try to rectify it. How much would it cost to get them to move in actual expenses and compensatory damages? Home is where the feet are, not where the heart is.
Mr Right
May 27th, 2011
10:23 pm
Don’t it make ya’ll kind of nervous to have Obama overseas ? Who knows how he is going to embarrass us !!
Kamchak
May 27th, 2011
10:56 pm
Don’t it make ya’ll kind of nervous to have Obama overseas ?
No.
Another episode of one-word answers to a simple(ton’s) question.
Israel a story of faith, memory and survival – Toronto Sun «ScrollPost.com
May 28th, 2011
5:21 am
[...] [...]
Obama promises to back Israel – International Business Times «ScrollPost.com
May 28th, 2011
5:25 am
[...] [...]
independent thinker
May 28th, 2011
7:40 am
Obama is just following Clinton’s nearly successful attempts to force a peace accord. Clinton came closer than any other US president to working out a deal. But that was with the cooperation and backing of Mubarak. Time is running out with the Egyptiams being more and more pro Hamas every day. Bush and Rice did nothing to push the peace process along. They stupidly forced Israel to unilaterally withdraw from Gaza and force Palestinian elections all of which gave Hamas and terrorists total control over Gaza. I am Jewish, all my relatives are in Israel and I support Obama’s efforts. His creds in fighting terrorism are much greater for the Israelis than Mr. “Mission Accomplished”.
Dave R.
May 28th, 2011
8:07 am
Or in your case, Kamchak, those that can’t, drive-by.
Mighy Righty
May 28th, 2011
10:05 am
Thulsa Doom
May 27th, 2011
6:18 pm
“are not even aware of the limitations of their thinking.”
As far as overall levels of incompetence and being aware of your own limitations between cons and libs it all comes down to which group generally speaking has less education, less income, etc. That group would be the one that truly has more incompetents who are unaware of their thinking limitations. I’ll leave it to you guys to figure out between the average Dem and the average Repub which party has a more educated voter base.
You are absolutely correct. It is those clever, smart, devious, scheming, Democrats that conspire to steal what little opportunity their poor ignorant often minority sheep can ill aford to lose. I give you credit. It requires far more than average intelligence to rip off the same people for more than fifty years and make them like it. Reminds me of that famous Democrat who said, “The art of taxiation requires shearing the sheep in a way to obtain the most wool without the sheep minding.” Our Democrat controlled government could not function without the Democrat sheep willingly BOHICA.
Left wing management
May 28th, 2011
10:18 am
Mighty: “Our Democrat controlled government could not function without the Democrat sheep willingly BOHICA.”
I think my definition of sheep differs from yours somewhat. In my book one main characteristic of sheep is someone who believes that party alone is responsible for the ‘rip off’. By that definition, your 10:05 post qualifies as – sheeplike.
Mr Right
May 28th, 2011
10:31 am
Another episode of one-word answers to a simple(ton’s) question.
Oh, you are sooooo intelligent !!
Mary Elizabeth
May 28th, 2011
11:24 am
The phrase “are not even aware of the limitations of their thinking” seems to have gathered a life of its own, with some on this blog. Since I am the author of that phrase, I would encourage all to go back to my 4 p.m. post of yesterday and read my use of that phrase, in context. The only specific individual to whom I was referring, when I used that phrase, was Rep. Walsh, the focus of Jay’s column, and Walsh’s words spoke for themselves. I did use, also, the phrase “conservative Republican who think as he does,” but that phrase referred to only those specific Republicans who have Walsh’s view of others.
If you, personally, identified with the phrase “limitations of their thinking,” then, that was your placing yourself in identity with the phrase, not my placing you within its meaning. Some chose to fight a battle with me personally over those words, when I had never singled out anyone, personally, to do battle with.
Also, the meaning that I had originally intended in using that phrase has been morphed, through others giving their thoughts about it, to mean something totally different from my original connotation of that phrase in context – which is more reflective of their perceptions than what I was actually saying.
What I was saying through using the phrase “limitations of thinking” really has little to do with intelligence as described by some; it has more to do with expanding consciousness. And by that I mean, again, seeing others not by labels but by seeing others, wholistically, as human beings, just as you and I are humans. When we are able do that, we will have more compassion for all types of humans and, therefore, we will have less turmoil and conflict in this world.
I am glad that I used that controversial phrase because it, evidently, struck a real chord with some that has caused people to reach deeply in exploring how they think and how they view others. I will illustrate, using myself, to better illustrate my intended meaning with the phrase. For example, if a conservative blogger had used the same phrase of “limited thinking” in describing “liberal Democrats,” I would not have been so defensive about the phrase as some have been with me. That is because, although I identify, in part, as a “liberal Democrat,” I know that that political label can only be a gross generality which describes hundreds of thousands of people (Democrats) and it, therefore, can only describe a small part of who I am as a whole. Some, who have been so defensive about my use of my word phrase, appear, to me, to identify too fully, as a person, with the label “conservative Republican.” If you are one who has done that, I want to emphasize, again, that you are much more than any label, just as I am. The more we know that about ourselves in depth, and the more we look beyond labels, to the core of our identity, the more we will see our similarities, as humans, with all others.
Not to attempt to move into that area of higher consciousness of seeing ourselves, and others, is to “limit our thinking.” The words of St. Paul in I Corinthians 13 express my thoughts better than I:
“For now we see through a glass darkly; but, then, face to face.” (verse 12).
“And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity (love), I am nothing.” (verse 2)
Kamchak
May 28th, 2011
12:38 pm
If you, personally, identified with the phrase “limitations of their thinking,” then, that was your placing yourself in identity with the phrase, not my placing you within its meaning.
A guilty dog barks first/the loudest.
josef nix
May 28th, 2011
1:07 pm
So, what DO Jews think? I’m sure glad we’ve got so many left, right, and center ready to tell us, It makes it so much easier. All that time, effort, energy and squabbling that marks that journey from Ur to here and now could have been avoided if we’d have just listened to the goyim! But, then, we wouldn’t have earned the rubric of a proud and stubborn lot, now would we?
Seriously, though, of the self-identified Jews on this blog, we probably argue and tangle with each other more than any other “sampling” hereabouts and not just about “Jewish” things. You can’t get us to agree on the day of the week, much less what “we” think.
And as for the thread…I avoided it in outplay. Reading over it, though, not a lot of reason I should have. Obviously the day crew regulars prefer personal nyanh-nyanh as per usual…and, for this Jew and for the State of Israel, that’s a good thing!
Dave R.
May 28th, 2011
2:46 pm
“If you, personally, identified with the phrase “limitations of their thinking,” then, that was your placing yourself in identity with the phrase, not my placing you within its meaning.”
There are many of us, Mary Elizabeth, who specifically DO NOT identify ourselves with that phrase, but are tired of the arrogance of you and others on the left who not only assume you know better than us, but denigrate us with phrases like “limitations of our thinking”.
If you wish to dispute a specific point in Rep. Walsh’s statements, do so, but to cast aspersions on his perceived “limitations of his thinking” when doing so displays the arrogance many of us have grown to expect from many of you on the left. From the HCR argument, “They attack it because they don’t understand it” (we did, and we still don’t like it), to the oft-written dismissal, “You just don’t like him because he’s black”, denoting that we don’t have any thoughtful or principled argument against his policies, there are many of us who are damned tired of the left’s condescending attitude towards valid opposition.
Next time try a difference of opinion based on the facts of the situation, rather than your smug “I know better than you do because I think” attitude.
Mighy Righty
May 28th, 2011
8:16 pm
Left wing management
May 28th, 2011
10:18 am
Mighty: “Our Democrat controlled government could not function without the Democrat sheep willingly BOHICA.”
I think my definition of sheep differs from yours somewhat. In my book one main characteristic of sheep is someone who believes that party alone is responsible for the ‘rip off’. By that definition, your 10:05 post qualifies as – sheeplike.
I think of mindlessly following another to ones self destruction as sheep like. For example: Fifty years and billions of dollars after the beginning of the “War on Poverty” there are more living in poverty than ever. However, the sheep continue to support this failed program.
Mary Elizabeth
May 29th, 2011
12:11 pm
Here are the facts of the situation. There is a total Middle Eastern picture to be considered, not simply one involving Israel and Palestine. In addition, according to Chris Matthews’ commentators this morning, Britain, as well as most of Europe, (our allies) may side with Palestine when Palestine addresses the U.N. this fall.
Here are quotes from Joe Walsh from the entire article: “He (Obama) is not pro-Israel.” and
“If we want peace in the Middle East, we have to publicly choose a side and defend that side.”
Walsh’s statements are those of a person who sees only in black/white, not in greys; and those statements, like Bush’s “You are either for us or are against us” do not make situations of conflict better – only worse. Walsh does not see that his absolutist statements make situations worse. That is his blind spot or where his vision is limited, in my opinion.
Moreover, I believe that Walsh’s statement that Obama is not pro-Israel is simply wrong. Obama is trying to foster peace between Palestine and Israel in the world as it exists today, with all of the Middle Eastern and European interests, and their various political complexities, considered in to the total picture to be considered.
Part of creating peace in the world, long term, as I implied in my 11:24 a.m. post, is to diffuse hostilities between peoples and nations by finding commonalities between them. That takes seeing from another’s perspective as well as from one’s own perspective, and not setting up absolutes, in which the world no longer operates. We are past the WWII era in world history. The world has moved on to a world in which we are all connected globally, economically and otherwise, and the world is also moving toward an egalitarian view of others, as seen in the recent uprisings in the Middle Eastern countries of citizens against dictatorships – as in Iran, Egypt, and Libya.
So, to summarize, I believe that facts are important; but so is overall vision. As a metaphor, facts can be compared to seeing the individual trees in a forest, whereas the overall vision can be compared with seeing the forest as a whole. Both are needed. If one, or the other, is missing in one’s thinking, then that person’s thinking is limited.
deegee
May 30th, 2011
9:12 am
It is astounding how easily Americans are played by politicians from all over the world. Whenever a politician is on the ropes they look for a way to get some camera time in the U.S. It always thrills the voters back home when they stick it to the Americans.
Say what you want about Israeli politics but they have a clear understanding of the American political cycle. They know that presidents and congressional representatives come and go every 4, 6 or 8 years. Israeli survival is not dependent on Washington politics du jour. Israelis will do what is best for Israel.
Adam
May 31st, 2011
9:57 am
Jay, I have no problem with anyone trying to make their case with facts and logic to try to change another person’s viewpoint.
Psssh, right… I’m gonna put this one alongside all those times you have claimed to have facts but had either opinions or opinion pieces to back yourself up, and when real facts come along you have ignored or attacked them. You seem to have a problem with anyone who DISAGREES with you, preferring insult to argument, and you rarely comment back on someone’s post in agreement with yours.
I suspect you really just like to argue, but only if you can perceive yourself as the winner no matter the actual outcome.
Bill Orvis White
May 31st, 2011
9:01 pm
…and he’s right: the liberal Hebrews in the United States don’t understand jihad. Most of them are clueless as to the Jewish state’s importance in the region. THEY ARE THE ONLY DEMOCRACY OVER THERE AND THEIR NEIGHBORS WISH TO PUSH THEM INTO THE SEA! Liberal Jews don’t understand that they will be the first killed when the jihadists storm our shores looking to take us over and impose Sharia Law on this once-free nation.
kaiser
June 1st, 2011
7:06 am
I don’t believe it was anything like condescension, more like disbelief. I’m an American jew and I cannot understand how jews can align themselves with someone like Obama. Downplay and ignore his 15-20 year association with Rev.Wright, obama’s mentor and spiritual advisor for all those years. Wright is also connected at the hip to the classic supreme bigot and jew basher Farrakan.Then pretend it never happened. I am a jew, but I am an American. This over rated, under critiqued president is dangerously incompetent.
pcBobby
June 1st, 2011
2:08 pm
@kaiser
No, you and the other right-of-center-faux-pro-Israel sheep claim that you’re following an intelligent line of logic. You most likely received a high-grade quality education and live in a comfortable house somewhere in the metro. Perhaps you go to temple and the JCC where you receive your marching orders. By now you’re saying that you formulate your own thoughts, but you never formulated your own thoughts. You most likely repeat everything your pro-Israel rabbi or cantor spit out to you and arrogantly repeat these thoughts to your wife, five children, your 20 grandchildren, your bevy of pro-Israel friends and neighbors. They probably are amazed at how they think you’re the most intelligent man on the block. Perhaps you’re a doctor, lawyer or accountant who never worried about writing a bad check. Your listeners – just like pro-Israel Neal Boortz, who you probably idolize – pay attention to your drivel with full attention. What’s the point? You just wrote a bunch of drivel on here.