Court decision in Arizona case critical to Georgia law
In a 5-3 decision, the Supreme Court has upheld a controversial illegal immigration bill enacted in Arizona. It’s an important decision, and as a matter of law if not policy, I actually agree with it. However, it’s important to note what the decision does and does not do.
First, this is not a decision on Arizona’s most recent and controversial immigration bill, which has also been challenged in the courts. That case will be decided on grounds of civil liberties, due process, the Tenth Amendment and similar provisions, and will almost certainly be overturned in the end. It goes way too far.
Today’s decision deals instead with a bill that was signed into law back in 2007 by then-Gov. Janet Napolitano, now the secretary of Homeland Security, and was decided on the wording of existing federal law.
It deals with a very limited issue: Do the states have the power to deny licenses to businesses that do not use E-Verify to check the legal status of new workers? In a decision authored by Chief Justice John Roberts, the court said yes. As Roberts noted, federal law prohibits states from imposing civil or criminal violations on businesses that hire illegal immigrants. However, that same federal law does give states the power to address that issue “through licensing and similar laws.”
That’s what Arizona did, the high court says it’s legal, and again, I think they’re right. As Roberts writes, “Arizona’s procedures simply implement the sanctions that Congress expressly allowed the States to pursue through licensing laws.”
Second, the decision has a major impact on the future of Georgia’s new immigration law. HB 87, signed into law earlier this month by Gov. Nathan Deal, took the same basic approach on mandated use of the E-Verify system as did the 2007 Arizona. It too makes the issuance of business licenses conditional on agreeing to use E-Verify. Since the Arizona law survived challenge, the relevant part of HB 87 is now almost certain to survive legal challenge as well.
In fact, the Arizona law contains strong enforcement language that state Rep. Matt Ramsey, the author of Georgia’s law, did not include in his own bill. Ramsey said those provisions were not included because he feared they were unconstitutional, but in light of today’s ruling, they clearly are not.
Ramsey’s decision can be more plausibly explained by fear that if he included strong enforcement provisions, business opposition would have been enough to kill the legislation. And he was no doubt right.
UPDATE: In a dissent joined by Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg, Justice Stephen Breyer asserts that the Arizona law may increase job discrimination against legal workers of Hispanic ancestry. As he points out, employers may try to minimize chances of running afoul of the law by simply refusing to hire anybody who might be illegal.
Roberts brushes aside such concerns, but I think he’s wrong on that point. The concern is legitimate, but given the plain language in federal law, I’m not what can be done about it by the courts.
– Jay Bookman
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242 comments Add your comment
Palin fan
May 26th, 2011
12:17 pm
Constitution schmonstitution.
Whatever it takes to keep those people out and send the illegals back is good (what part of “illegal” do you not understand?)
Mr Right
May 26th, 2011
12:19 pm
Palin fan
Yea, what you said !
jewcowboy
May 26th, 2011
12:20 pm
More obstacles and regulations for small businesses…but regulations and obstacles that keep illegal immigrants from taking jobs from legal workers…oh how will should I feel about this? I know let’s ask Archer Daniels Midland, Bank of America and the rest of our corporate overlords…
ATF
May 26th, 2011
12:22 pm
Without penalties for employers who hire illegal aliens, the problem will continue. It is the jobs that lure the illegal aliens here. We can send 11 million people back to where ever they came from. We can “close” the borders with Mexico and Canada, as much as you can close a stretch that measures 1,969 miles on the south and 3,987 on the north. But, without penalties for employers who hire illegals, in another twenty years we will have another 11 million to ship out all over again.
Aquagirl
May 26th, 2011
12:25 pm
The Vidalia onion farmers just collectively peed their pants.
Mr Right
May 26th, 2011
12:28 pm
So it’s o k for employers to check but not the law ? If it’s discrimanation for one why isn’t it for the other ?
Granny Godzilla
May 26th, 2011
12:29 pm
Good for the Supreme Court.
AND
Good for Justice Kagan, she set an excellent example in recusing herself from this case that other Justices should heed.
andygrdzki
May 26th, 2011
12:30 pm
A couple of things:
They are not refugees, and this is by definition of refugee.
They are criminals, as defined by the US Code itself, that calls for criminal fines and/or imprisonment.
The unemployment rate in Mexico in March of 2011 was 5.6%,, in the U.S. around 9%.
And I agree, make businesses accountable….. All the Democrats that hire illegal’s should be held accountable…… And that includes Unions……
stands for decibels
May 26th, 2011
12:30 pm
an excellent example in recusing herself from this case that other Justices should heed.
yeah, that’s gonna happen.
Jay
May 26th, 2011
12:30 pm
Mr. Right, in Georgia it’s OK for businesses to check. But it’s not OK for government to check on businesses.
andygrdzki
May 26th, 2011
12:32 pm
I have said in the past to fine businesses $25k for each violation (per person), and none of you would support that……
Jay
May 26th, 2011
12:33 pm
So Andy, what happens when employers then begin to refuse to hire ANY Hispanic, legal or otherwise, to avoid the risk of such a huge fine? Would that cause you concern?
willie lynch
May 26th, 2011
12:34 pm
Palin fan
May 26th, 2011
12:17 pm
I see why?
Jay,
You’re right. The Georgia statutes were only meant to be lip service to the bigger problem. It’s really quite simple, if businesses are punished with what would amount to a deportation of their business, they would not hire illegals. But this might require them hiring someone who demands more than slave wages to perform the backbreaking work that these illegals will do for pennies on the dollar.
The correct approach is to punish both ends of the problem, the illegal workers and the businesses that hire them. But do so with equal vigor.
joe
May 26th, 2011
12:35 pm
Jay, businesses are, and will continue to hire Hispanics because they are good workers with good working ethics…and they make great citizens and raise good families. They are an asset to our country. So now the employees must check, this will weed out those who are not here legally, opening up a job opportunity for a US citizen. What about that is a negative?? Please enlighten us…
I’ll do it for you…NOTHING.
eddie
May 26th, 2011
12:35 pm
We don’t need no laws. Let’s have a free for all. And when some illegal breaks into Bookman’s house and steals everything no nailed down, I’m sure he’ll say that it is OK and will not file a police report nor collect on his insurance. The US is everyone who is here legally’s house..illegals here are criminals based upon our laws no matter how they got here. PS…there is an established process to seek legal status but illegals want some special dispensation from Obama so that they can automatically go to the head of the line.
Peadawg
May 26th, 2011
12:38 pm
“In a 5-3 decision, the Supreme Court has upheld a controversial illegal immigration bill enacted in Arizona.” – AMEN!
Let the IF-games, MAY-games and fear mongering from the Left begin!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
BADA BING
May 26th, 2011
12:38 pm
If the Vidalia onions don’t get picked, they will become a scarce commodity. They will become higher priced next year when wages to pick them will go up. This happens to every product or crop in the history of commerce. You pays for what you gets. We have no guarantee or expectation of prices lower than the going rate. If immigrants don’t pick the crops, the prices will go up until some US citizens will. Pay the price or don’t.
Brent
May 26th, 2011
12:39 pm
You don’t have to worry about businesses not hiring Hispanics. Hispanics produce more work for less money. That’s why businesses hire illegals in the first place.
Jay
May 26th, 2011
12:40 pm
If the Vidalia onions don’t get picked, they will become a scarce commodity. They will become higher priced next year when wages to pick them will go up.
And then cheaper-priced onions will replace them in the market.
Face Ripper Monkey 2012
May 26th, 2011
12:40 pm
Face Ripper Monkey does not want illegal orangutans taking jobs from other monkeys.
Peadawg
May 26th, 2011
12:40 pm
“In fact, the Arizona law contains strong enforcement language that state Rep. Matt Ramsey, the author of Georgia’s law, did not include in his own bill. Ramsey said those provisions were not included because he feared they were unconstitutional, but in light of today’s ruling, they clearly are not.” – Let’s hope the GA law is revised and the strong enforcement language is added.
Jefferson
May 26th, 2011
12:42 pm
When farmers were not agribusinessmen, you know “dirt poor”, no ac on the tractors etc… they had large families to do labor and hired migrant workers. Now they just make more profit on migrant workers. These new laws by the GOP will limit profit or somebody else will have to do some “real” farm work.
Smarty
May 26th, 2011
12:44 pm
I for one I agree with the law with this…For way too long both companies and the latinos have skirted the issue of taxes. With the Latinos they are hard working people and will do jobs that some minorities won’t do. Some of the other minorities have found out that is cheaper to do nothing and get free pay and free housing. BUT for the companies and some latinos have not paid taxes and need to for Social Security and State & Federal Taxes. Time to pay your fare share. I have too you can too.
Kamchak
May 26th, 2011
12:45 pm
I say not just business licenses.
Make it personal.
Revoke professional licenses as well, Doctors, Lawyers, Contractors, CPAs.
If an illegal is caught working on their property, revoke licenses and make ‘em spend time at Reidsville.
BADA BING
May 26th, 2011
12:47 pm
Do you know what type of conditions these migrants live in to pick your food? Why do people boycott blood diamonds, but demand a low price on their peanuts, fruit, beans? Pay a living wage so that Americans will work on farms. We pay the lowest food prices in the World, and our food is safer. Give up your toys and pay for safe, plentiful food.
Aquagirl
May 26th, 2011
12:47 pm
“And then cheaper-priced onions will replace them in the market.”
So true. I think this decision sets up a big game of chicken. States that adopt e-verify requirements will be risking their industries if surrounding states (or countries, depending on the product) don’t do the same. If HB 87 runs illegals out of Georgia, we gain financially by not having to provide services. On the other hand, some of our industries are toast, and that won’t help our economy. Few consumers care how a product was produced, they just want the cheapest price. If people cared, we would have been doing this ourselves.
Jefferson
May 26th, 2011
12:48 pm
No matter what, the court has ruled. That’s the way it works, like it or not.
Hillbilly D
May 26th, 2011
12:48 pm
If the Vidalia onions don’t get picked, they will become a scarce commodity. They will become higher priced next year when wages to pick them will go up.
And then cheaper-priced onions will replace them in the market.
Ain’t that the way the free market is supposed to work? Disclaimer I don’t like onions anyway, but if I did, I’d grow my own.
andygrdzki
May 26th, 2011
12:48 pm
Jay, I don’t think that will happen,,,, If the employer performs due diligence, the business should not held accountable… I don’t think there will widespread discrimination, and I think that claim is just a scare tactic.
If a person has a valid social security card and license, etc… they will be qualified if they are hired. Now, if you have an illegal that has presented fraudulent documents, as in the case of Nicki Diaz, then they should be held accountable and prosecuted, not the business owner that performed due diligence. When I applied for my current position, I had to present the documents to prove I was legal, and heck, I am retired military, white and an “ole fart”, I mean senior person…
People here have said businesses should be held accountable,,, okay hold them accountable…. As an international company, we hire people from around the world… Each one must have the proper documents and they are checked out….. That is our company policy…. And we have employees in and from South America, Argentina, Dominican Republic, France, Spain… we are not worried…
USMC
May 26th, 2011
12:50 pm
“So Andy, what happens when employers then begin to refuse to hire ANY Hispanic, legal or otherwise, to avoid the risk of such a huge fine? Would that cause you concern?”
–JAY BOOKMAN
Boy, how about these two new words for the day: DELUSIONAL & PARANOID?????
I guess by Jay’s twisted (IL)logic; we shouldn’t have laws at all… Unbelievable!
iRun
May 26th, 2011
12:54 pm
You know, Russia has the same problem. The damn Tajiks keep crossing the border to take the low paying jobs the Russians won’t take and it pissed some of them off. Meanwhile, the Kazaks are quietly gaining a foothold in the world economy…what is their secret?
Hey, true story. I learned it from a Krg.
Hillbilly D
May 26th, 2011
12:54 pm
Slightly off topic….
It’s interesting that some people who live in air conditioned homes, drive air-conditioned cars and work in an air-conditioned environment, seem to begrudge a farmer for having an air-conditioned tractor. Why shouldn’t they, if they can afford one?
andy @ 12:48
I’ve had to show a birth certificate at every job I’ve had for the last 20 or so years. One time my employer was even a distant relative and he knew it but the dotted his “i’s” and crossed his “t’s”, anyway.
BADA BING
May 26th, 2011
12:55 pm
No, cheaper priced onions will not replace Vidalias. Do you not know the difference?You can buy any old onions you want, but not as a replacement. Can you replace a filet mignon with ground beef? Can you replace Jessica Alba with Rosie O’Donnell? You can substitute it, but not replace it.
andygrdzki
May 26th, 2011
12:57 pm
A couple of things:
First, we need to secure the borders… no question about it.
Second, I think we need to come up with a “legal worker program”. With Mexico’s tax laws, if residents of Mexico pay taxes in the US, they will not have to pay taxes in Mexico, they are offset. Okay, set up a program, to start making them legal workers in the US, while they apply for citizenship? One of the conditions, just as it applies to any legal immigrant, you cannot obtain services without paying… … okay, then start a sponsorship program. This should not be automatic….. you have to work for it, just like any other immigrant……
iRun
May 26th, 2011
12:58 pm
So I asked, are there any really good authentic Tajik restaurants in Russia now? Or is all still that commercialized Ruski-Tajiki cr@p?
Mr Right
May 26th, 2011
12:58 pm
Jay,the question is do YOU think it’s OK for businesses to check ?
AmVet
May 26th, 2011
12:59 pm
Jefferson, as someone who had extensive experience in that role, I can assure today’s teenagers are, by and large, completely unwilling to do that kind of work. They are MUCH too soft and MUCH to demotivated.
Farm work is anything but glamorous. It usually involves getting very dirty, most of it is backbreaking and it often involves VERY long days. For weeks and weeks and weeks on end. Often during the most brutally hot conditions. (For example, try stacking hale bales in a barn loft when it is 105 degrees OUTSIDE!)
Or bone numbing cold. Like feeding cattle when you can barely feel your toes.
But I absolutely loved it!
It was the first time in my then young life that I had a chance to make some coin (I think I made a dollar an hour or so!) And it taught me that there are lots of people out there who bust their asses every single day. And these guys did it for most, if not all, of their adult lives.
You city slickers wanna put your money where your mouth is? Go thank a farmer, and the guys he uses to get those jobs done. Yep, even Jose and Juan, who are doing what your pampered, lazy kids wont…
Face Ripper Monkey 2012
May 26th, 2011
1:00 pm
iRun is getting political and missing out on the Momania action.
Face Ripper Monkey 2012
jewcowboy
May 26th, 2011
1:01 pm
Hillbilly D,
“I’ve had to show a birth certificate at every job I’ve had for the last 20 or so years. ”
Really? I’ve worked for the 22 years and have shown my birth certificate exactly 0 times when filling out paperwork for a new job.
Jay
May 26th, 2011
1:01 pm
Mr. Right, yes.
iRun
May 26th, 2011
1:01 pm
Bada Bing, I once met a guy who told me that a woman was simply a life support system for a va-jay-jay. For someone like that, who cares if it’s Alba or O’Donnell, right?
* disclosure – I actually heard that and to this day it’s one of the most brutally offensive things I’ve ever heard. Nice wake-up call for a 19 year old college girl, eh?
AmVet
May 26th, 2011
1:01 pm
And hell no, we didn’t have AC on those 1965 John Deeres. But we did have AM radios, which to me, were much more valuable!
And where I coined the phrase of hearing “Eight Days a Week, eight times a day”…
iRun
May 26th, 2011
1:02 pm
That’s because I like to get a little silly on the political blogs. It’s an immune reaction to the amount of self-absorption in here. I click on Jay’s blog and suddenly all the moisture is sucked out of my computer and it starts creaking. I gotta do something to lighten things up.
Face Ripper Monkey 2012
May 26th, 2011
1:02 pm
Face Ripper Monkey likes getting dirty.
Face Ripper Monkey 2012
jewcowboy
May 26th, 2011
1:02 pm
I am quite impressed though…this thread has 38 comments and only 1 “Obama” in all of them.
andygrdzki
May 26th, 2011
1:04 pm
jewcowboy… I have had to show mine several times.. Not lately, but in the past…. So I guess it depends…
jewcowboy
May 26th, 2011
1:04 pm
iRun,
“suddenly all the moisture is sucked out of my computer”
To get my electronics nice and moist…I soak them in butter.
BADA BING
May 26th, 2011
1:04 pm
jewcowboy, glad to see you. I think of you when I see the new Caddy, I am amazed that I see a good number of them, even at that price. Enjoy. What is your MPG?
iRun
May 26th, 2011
1:06 pm
I’d ending up eating the butter. And if another person walks by and sees me wiping my computer screen down with a piece of toast I might get in trouble….
sallie
May 26th, 2011
1:06 pm
Tear down that wall, Mr. Gorbachev!
BADA BING
May 26th, 2011
1:08 pm
irun…..get some ‘I Can’t Believe It’s a Screen Saver’!
jewcowboy
May 26th, 2011
1:08 pm
Howdy BADA BING,
A slow day for change so I thought I would check out Jay’s place. I see quite a few, but most are just the base CTS…though I have seen more CTS-V’s than I would have thought. My MPG? Seems more like GPM
Jefferson
May 26th, 2011
1:08 pm
Hillbilly, to clarify I don’t begrudge farmers who have ac, but back then when farming wasn’t a lucritive occupation (some) they couldn’t afford dentist trips for the kids, much less ac on the mule or tractor if they were a big farm. It is hard work, and high risk but profits come from low costs or high prices.
Hillbilly D
May 26th, 2011
1:08 pm
jewcowboy @ 1:01
I really have. Although, I haven’t worked in a job that had a lot of illegal labor during that time, I was working in geographic areas where it was way above the national average. Maybe that had something to do with it, I don’t know.
Left wing management
May 26th, 2011
1:08 pm
“Show me a 50-foot wall and I’ll show you a 51-foot ladder” – Janet Napolitano
jewcowboy
May 26th, 2011
1:09 pm
iRun,
“And if another person walks by and sees me wiping my computer screen down with a piece of toast I might get in trouble….”
If I remember correctly, don’t you work at the CDC? You might have some folks in white coats quietly pushing you out the door
jewcowboy
May 26th, 2011
1:10 pm
“get some ‘I Can’t Believe It’s a Screen Saver’!”
Face Ripper Monkey 2012
May 26th, 2011
1:11 pm
CDC
1600 Clifton Road
BADA BING
May 26th, 2011
1:13 pm
left wing…..in the meantime, you have forced someone to buy and transport a 50 foot ladder. You also need 2 ladders, you have to get down on the other side.
Hillbilly D
May 26th, 2011
1:14 pm
Jefferson
I wasn’t referring to what you said, specifically, but it did make me think of comments that I’ve heard from other people. (Sorry, if it came off wrong). In my area, dentist trips were scarce unless somebody had an absessed tooth, they couldn’t get out themselves. (My great-Grandpa was a country dentist. Charged $1 to pull a tooth). When my parents were coming up, they got one pair of shoes a year and that was in the fall, so they’d have shoes for the winter. I do know people who weren’t that fortunate.
I never saw a John Deere tractor until I was grown. In our world it was a Ford, a Ferguson, or a Farmall, if you had a tractor. Nobody could afford a John Deere.
iRun
May 26th, 2011
1:14 pm
JCB (that comes out like juicy-bee, btw), yep CDC…but I took the week off bc my kid is out of school as of Tues. So, in this case, the only person to witness the butter bath would be a 10 year old…and he’d want to join in.
And FRM12, but which building, floor, cube?????? And what’s the secret handshake to get in?
Hillbilly D
May 26th, 2011
1:15 pm
Did the time shifting posts get fixed?
Face Ripper Monkey 2012
May 26th, 2011
1:15 pm
Face Ripper Monkey will cut government waste. For example. CDC employees will not post on blogs during work hours.
iRun
May 26th, 2011
1:16 pm
FRM12 – you’ve been punked! I ain’t on the clock!!!!! Whooooooo heeeee!
As many here have noticed, I am not all that regular here (hey, that’s in common with the aforementioned PMS). Bc (1) Hatch act, and (2) too damn busy at work to play.
iRun
May 26th, 2011
1:18 pm
Hey, we can post about zombie preparedness on CDC blogs. Legitimate public health campaign.
Finn McCool
May 26th, 2011
1:18 pm
It is the jobs that lure the illegal aliens here.
No, it’s the free beer!
…and Disney World fer cyin out loud.
MW
May 26th, 2011
1:19 pm
Dick Cheney worships Paul Ryan
http://content.usatoday.com/communities/onpolitics/post/2011/05/dick-cheney-paul-ryan-gop-presidential-race-/1
Hillbilly D
May 26th, 2011
1:19 pm
To myself at 1:15
Evidently not.
Face Ripper Monkey 2012
May 26th, 2011
1:19 pm
Face Ripper Monkey wants your vote.
BADA BING
May 26th, 2011
1:19 pm
irun….I save my secret handshakes for Jessica Alba.
USMC
May 26th, 2011
1:22 pm
More Federal Government Waste of Tax Dollars
Billions and Billions…
http://blogs.ajc.com/jamie-dupree-washington-insider/2011/05/26/billions-and-billions/
BADA BING
May 26th, 2011
1:23 pm
Hillbilly….the time shifting is still happening on my comp. J must have a time machine or a wormhole in the internets.
AngryRedMarsWoman
May 26th, 2011
1:23 pm
“You also need 2 ladders, you have to get down on the other side.”
Once at the top, can’t you just straddle the wall, pull up the ladder and use it to get down on the other side? Is this a test?
jconservative
May 26th, 2011
1:25 pm
As I recall the Georgia statute only requires businesses to register to use E-Verify and then state that they are using it. No one from State government will check to see if they are really using E-Verify.
Farmer standing in the field supervising the picking of his crop and a truck drives up. Six guys get out and ask for a job. The farmer says OK I am paying $8 a basket. The guys from the truck say OK. They go to work and work all day. They get paid, get in the truck, and drive off never to be seen again.
Happens daily.
What part of “getting the crop in before it spoils” do you not understand?
Hillbilly D
May 26th, 2011
1:26 pm
Once at the top, can’t you just straddle the wall, pull up the ladder and use it to get down on the other side?
Not if it’s topped with barbed wire or razor wire?
The farmer says OK I am paying $8 a basket.
In my area, they’d be lucky to get $100 for a 10-12 hour day. You’d have to have good production to get that much.
deegee
May 26th, 2011
1:27 pm
BADA BING, the ladder is supplied by an individual living near the fence who will enthusiastically walk it to the fence for a price. You catch the people on the other side. They aren’t a bunch of couch potatoes like the people that are supposedly losing their jobs to them.
@@
May 26th, 2011
1:28 pm
So does Illinois (land of Obama) still prohibit the use of E-verify? According to them, the federal government’s much ballyhooed E-Verify system is fraught with errors.
Surprising? Not really. It is, after all, a government system. It’s only a matter of time before some unfortunate victim hollers…..FOUL!!!!!
That’s probably why the feds don’t mandate the use of E-Verify. It’s safer for them to merely suggest.
Left wing management
May 26th, 2011
1:29 pm
Isn’t it unbelievable – and supremely typical – that in this debate everything is discussed except the actual causes, which is the policy of the elites in BOTH the nations USA and Mexico. It is their neoliberal economic policies that are directly responsible for the massive outflows of low-earning migrants from Mexico into this country for jobs that pay marginally more.
And yet, you read the posts on this blog and you will see EVERYTHING BUT this mentioned as causes.
Why is that?
Midori
May 26th, 2011
1:30 pm
MADISON, Wisconsin (Reuters) – A Wisconsin judge on Thursday voided a controversial Republican-backed law restricting the collective bargaining rights of public sector unions.
Dane County Judge Maryann Sumi said Republican lawmakers violated the state’s open meetings law in rushing the legislation through during massive protests at the state Capitol earlier this year.
Sumi ruled the evidence was “clear and convincing” that Republicans failed to comply with the law in a hastily called meeting in March to push through legislation containing the collective bargaining changes.
The Wisconsin proposal championed by Republican Governor Scott Walker would eliminate most collective bargaining rights for public sector unions and require them to pay more for pensions and health coverage. The law has been on hold pending the legal decision.
(Reporting by Jeff Mayers; Writing by Greg McCune; Editing by Peter Bohan)
Source: Reuters US Online Report Domestic News
Finn McCool
May 26th, 2011
1:30 pm
teh internets
there, fixed yer typo
USMC
May 26th, 2011
1:31 pm
Big Blow to the Bookman Camp:
Supreme Court backs Arizona immigration law that punishes businesses
http://www.cnn.com/2011/US/05/26/scotus.arizona.law/index.html?hpt=T1
BADA BING
May 26th, 2011
1:32 pm
degree, a fence is not made to keep things out 100%. A wall, a redan, a rampart, a fence, a moat, all are defensive devices to slow, channel, or stand up an opponent. It must still be manned, hell the Great Wall of China was the largest obstacle ever built, yet it was still manned. It forces people to spend time, resources and energy, until the defense can respond. A wall is just one of a multi layered defense.
Finn McCool
May 26th, 2011
1:32 pm
a truck drives up. Six guys get out and ask for a job.
I believe driving the truck will get you in hot water too.
Finn McCool
May 26th, 2011
1:34 pm
Anyone have a good idea on how to provide 20′ of climbing material for tomato plants, squash and cukes?
I have to get em off the ground.
Finn McCool
May 26th, 2011
1:35 pm
it isn’t all about bringing in the vidalia onions.
or cutting up meat – poultry, beef, pork
Food processing is inundated with illegals cause the work is dangerous and low paying.
BADA BING
May 26th, 2011
1:35 pm
Mars woman……can you sit on a 50 foot fence and pull up a ladder that weighs 50-100 lbs, and lower it to the ground? If you can, I don’t ever want to meet you.
@@
May 26th, 2011
1:36 pm
20′ tomato plants?
For the cukes and squash, I’ve seen people form a row of upside down U with chicken wire.
Hillbilly D
May 26th, 2011
1:36 pm
a truck drives up. Six guys get out and ask for a job.
Usually the truck drives up to the 6 guys and somebody asks the 6 guys if they’re looking for a job.
AngryRedMarsWoman
May 26th, 2011
1:37 pm
I find it kinda funny that whenever there is a discussion about illegal/undocumented folks the conversation always turns to farm work. I might be mistaken, but I was under the impression that most people are more concerned about the folks who aren’t driving around from farm to farm, but rather have simply decided to start homesteading and take up office cleaning, car washing, clerical, construction and restaurant work. Have you been in Smyrna or Marietta lately? These are not folks squeezing into pick-ups and driving around the country chasing harvests, they are folks who have simply found a place to squat and employers willing to skirt the laws. I have some very mixed emotions about the whole issue that I won’t go into – I just wanted to point out that it isn’t all about bringing in the vidalia onions.
Kamchak
May 26th, 2011
1:39 pm
…hell the Great Wall of China was the largest obstacle ever built, yet it was still manned.
Yep.
And people merely walked around it or bribed their way through it.
carlosgvv
May 26th, 2011
1:40 pm
Business wants illegals for cheap labor. Politicians want them for the vote. The Catholic Church wants them for parishoners. Do you really think any anti-immigration law will be enforced even if the Court upholds it? There are laws on the books already that prohibit age discrimination in hiring. They are not worth the paper they are printed on. What makes you think any illegal immigration bill will be any different?
Finn McCool
May 26th, 2011
1:40 pm
“Bad Newt! Go to your room!”
Addicted to excess in every facet of his life, Gingrich first became an important figure in the conservative movement almost two decades ago chiefly because — unlike the more decorous Republicans who then led his party — he was eager to utter the most vicious accusations against liberals and Democrats.
More than that, he encouraged other Republicans around the country to do likewise, founding an organization called GOPAC that trained right-wing candidates how to use a lexicon of slurs describing their liberal or Democratic opponents as “sick,” “pathetic,” “radical” and “traitors,” among other things.
http://truthout.org/gingrich-style/1306423550
Bosch
May 26th, 2011
1:40 pm
Question — this is my dumb question of the day, but does this include all businesses? And all employees or business or new hires???? The reason I ask is that my mom owned her own business for many years until she died last summer, and she had more than 5 less than 10 employees. Will we now have to check the current employees in e-verify or do we have to do this with new hires??? I should know this, but I don’t…so hence my dumb assness in asking.
jm
May 26th, 2011
1:40 pm
I’m glad Jay’s not playing “stand in constitutional scholar” today…..
BADA BING
May 26th, 2011
1:41 pm
kamchak…..did the Great Wall of China keep out SQUIRRELS?
Bosch
May 26th, 2011
1:42 pm
Ewww, wow, can the person posting as “Face Ripper Monkey” please change names? That’s making my butt sphincter constrict and it’s very uncomfortable. Just asking.
iRun
May 26th, 2011
1:42 pm
OK, you folks are getting too serious for me. I’m gonna go take a bike ride in Freedom Park with my spawn before it starts raining.
There’s better be more self-important opinions on these sheets by the time I get back or I’m crackin skulls!
Hillbilly D
May 26th, 2011
1:44 pm
Finn McCool @ 1:34
I make cages out of concrete reinforcing wire. It comes in 50′ and 250′ rolls, I think. The squares on the rows are 6″. This is dependent on what you want but I cut out a section 10 squares long. You’ll need bolt cutters or something pretty stout to cut it with. when you cut it, cut in the middle of the square and the piece left can be bent over to secure the cage. Cut the bottom so that you have wire sticking out that will secure it when you push down, on the cage.That’ll give you a cage, roughly 4 1/2 feet tall and 2-3 feet in diameter. You can use sticks, strips of wood or anything to place crossways through the cage for support. It’s a little expensive initially but they’ll last forever and you can use them from now on.
There are other methods but that is what I’ve found that works best for me. I only use it on tomatos and cucumbers and occasionally cantalopes but for cantalopes, they run along the grown but the cage will help keep the deer from eating the cantalopes.
josef nix
May 26th, 2011
1:44 pm
Mars woman…
While I agree wholeheartedly with much of what you say and while you make the point that you have issues…that word “squat” sticks in my craw. I have many latino friends and neighbors and the image of them “squatting” is just as stereotypical and wrong as assuming they are all farmworkers…”they” have settled in an live pretty much the same as their anglo neighbors…
ALSO Y’ALL
The latino “work ethic” keeps being brought up and while I agree you get more bang for your buck, it’s more the immigrant work ethic…believe me, working as I do with their children, you can spot a “legal” or a “born here” with no trouble…”yessir, nossir, pardon me” homework turned in, sit down and do your work, don’t talk back, mama and daddy (and maybe even older sibling, aunt, uncle and grandma) there in a minute when the teacher calls? Illegal or immigrant…natives or papered? Pretty much the opposite.
Send them back where they came from and all that’ll be left are the uppity ones! See how much work you get for twice the wage now…
AngryRedMarsWoman
May 26th, 2011
1:44 pm
Sorry, @BADA, that is work this American simply won’t do. I suppose I could find an illegal who could do it for me though. (cymbal crash) I’ll be here all week….nyuk nyuk nyuk
Recon (2nd.and 3rd.)
May 26th, 2011
1:46 pm
What could be significant in this SCOTUS ruling is it’s rejection of the federal governments position that only the Federal government has jurisdiction over immigration laws.
Hillbilly D
May 26th, 2011
1:47 pm
Mars Woman @ 1:37
Good point.
jewcowboy
May 26th, 2011
1:47 pm
“It is, after all, a government system.”
Yes..because AT&T never drops a call due to it being private industry.
Midori
May 26th, 2011
1:47 pm
Bosch – Face Ripper is channeling Bill Maher
http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/heather/bill-maher-face-ripper-monkey-2012
Joe Mama
May 26th, 2011
1:48 pm
Jay — “And then cheaper-priced onions will replace them in the market.”
I don’t know about y’all, but I’ve *got* to have my Vidalias in the spring and summmer. I don’t care if they’re going to cost me more because good ol’ boys are picking them instead of illegosos doing it.
AngryRedMarsWoman
May 26th, 2011
1:48 pm
“Not if it’s topped with barbed wire or razor wire?”
Wire snips? Bolt cutters? Ask your friend to climb up first and lay on the wire so you don’t hurt yourself?
Bosch
May 26th, 2011
1:49 pm
And anyone who seriously thinks building a freaking wall to keep out illegals is a plausible idea should not be addressed because they obviously have the cognitive abilities of a 10 year old.
AngryRedMarsWoman
May 26th, 2011
1:50 pm
Okay, @Josef, I will retract the use of the word squat as what they are doing does not by definition merit that label. But dude, you used the word “uppity” after chastising me for “squat”….for real?
AmVet
May 26th, 2011
1:50 pm
“…strong enforcement provisions, business opposition would have been enough to kill the legislation.”
And there’s the rub. Big business really doesn’t want to comply with those damn legality issues. Better to wreak havoc and then pay the fines.
And if you’re
luckyone of the most favored overlords, like BP, you get to write a ton of it off anyway.Either way, it’s just another cost of doing business for the Titans of Industry.
And life in the American Corporatocracy.
iDig iRun.
Hip and fit! (But spawn tend to scare me off!)
Bosch
May 26th, 2011
1:51 pm
Midori,
Well, that was indeed funny — I still like Maher even though he is a populist jerk, he still makes me laugh — but that whole thing is making my sphincters constrict.
Finn McCool
May 26th, 2011
1:51 pm
thanks Hillbilly!
Now to go get some illegals to help me build it…
Thulsa Doom
May 26th, 2011
1:52 pm
In a dissent joined by Justice Douglas Ginsberg, Justice Stephen Breyer asserts that the Arizona law may increase job discrimination against legal workers of Hispanic ancestry. As he points out, employers may try to minimize chances of running afoul of the law by simply refusing to hire anybody who might be illegal.
Roberts brushes aside such concerns, but I think he’s wrong on that point.- Jay
Jay,
Sorry but we can’t base law on may, might, could possibly, etc. If an Hispanic worker is legal he is legal. End of story.
As for employers minimizing hiring workers in an effort to minimize running afoul of the law that is a patently absurd argument. Employers already freely hire Hispanic workers all day long with full knowledge that some of them may be presenting bogus SS cards and other bogus documentation.
Do you honestly think the same carpet mills that today hire Hispanics knowing full well that some of them are presenting bogus ID will all of a sudden stop interviewing and hiring Hispanic workers who could pass E-verify? Its a ridiculous argument.
jewcowboy
May 26th, 2011
1:52 pm
Bosch,
“because they obviously have the cognitive abilities of a 10 year old.”
Kinda like those who think turning Medicare into a voucher system would be met with cheers from the one voting block that turns out in masses consistently?
Bosch
May 26th, 2011
1:53 pm
Is my earlier question just too dumb to answer? Maybe I’m the one with the cognitive abilities of a 10 year old…damn.
AngryRedMarsWoman
May 26th, 2011
1:53 pm
“because AT&T never drops a call due to it being private industry.”
HAHAHAHAHA……of course, with AT&T’s “stellar” coverage you would have to be able to make the call before they can drop it…and apparently most places I happen to be are places where making that call is impossible. But hey, AT&T just announced that I will now have 4G in Atlanta to NOT be able to actually connect to. a$$hats
Kevin
May 26th, 2011
1:53 pm
The only problem I have with the GA and AZ laws is that while our states will enforce the law more tightly, our neighboring states’s farmers, industry, etc. will continue to fly under the radar more easily and be able to out-price, out-produce and out-compete our own. This will result in LOST jobs in Georgia, blue- and white-collar. If you don’t think a major industrial operation will not take this into account when locating their next production facility you are drinking too much kool-aid. Alabama and SC farmers and local development authorities are probably already hoarse from cheering today’s decision.
If the Fed’s won’t enforce the law, it is foolhardy for a state to think doing so as an island will do anything but bump one problem next door only to gain many more by putting its own residents, small businesses, family farmers, cities and counties at a disadvantage. No illegal aliens will leave the US for this, they will take the cheap labor down the road, and anyone who used to employ them will either have to pay 3-4 times as much for the same labor (which the market can’t bear) or hire 1/3 – 1/4 as many workers, which won’t produce as much. (Say what you will about hispanic labor, and pardon the stereotype, but I’ve worked alongside them in the past and frankly, most of the time two of them would do the work of 4 to 6 average US-born workers.)
Here’s the big punchline though…A huge portion of the migrant worker population in Georgia lives within an hour of the state line, and can go to another state to work, but still go to Georgia emergency rooms and access other taxpayer-paid benefits, regardless of where they work. So that problem is not solved either. Can anyone point out how this bill BENEFITS the residents and businesses of Georgia?
Dave R.
May 26th, 2011
1:55 pm
“Ewww, wow, can the person posting as “Face Ripper Monkey” please change names? That’s making my butt sphincter constrict and it’s very uncomfortable. Just asking.”
I can think of one other handle to make your skin crawl, Bosch.
But I won’t . . .
p.s. Agree with you on the whole FRM handle, btw.
Bosch
May 26th, 2011
1:55 pm
Hi jewcowboy — I miss seeing you in these here parts.
Or kinda like telling Iowan corn farmers you want to end ethanol subsidies? Or telling Wall Streeters no more bailouts or no more too big to fail?
I mean geez.
deegee
May 26th, 2011
1:56 pm
And it is funny to think that when you have a minor construction project and you need some help you generally don’t think about getting your teenaged son or daughter and their buddies over to help you dig post holes, mix and pour concrete, clear brush, nail boards on a fence, etc.
Joe Mama
May 26th, 2011
1:57 pm
AmVet — “And there’s the rub. Big business really doesn’t want to comply with those damn legality issues. Better to wreak havoc and then pay the fines.”
I completely agree. I once worked for a corporate VP who actually asked me “would it be cheaper to fix it or to just pay the fine?” I was absolutely flabbergasted.
Just for added crapitude, I should point out that said VP now holds an elective political office.
Bosch
May 26th, 2011
1:57 pm
Dave R.,
It has to include clowns, right? Or snakes…….I don’t like snakes either, but not as much as I don’t like clowns.
Dave R.
May 26th, 2011
1:59 pm
“Or kinda like telling Iowan corn farmers you want to end ethanol subsidies? Or telling Wall Streeters no more bailouts or no more too big to fail? ”
Bosch and jewcowboy, would you prefer our candidates to continue to lie to us, or do you want the truth from them?
Bosch
May 26th, 2011
1:59 pm
deegee,
I sure as hell do. Well, I’m not sure of hell, don’t believe in it, but sometimes I wish I could so that guy who put the puppy in the oven would go there — but I certainly get my teenagers friends over to help out.
Thulsa Doom
May 26th, 2011
1:59 pm
If the Vidalia onions don’t get picked, they will become a scarce commodity. They will become higher priced next year when wages to pick them will go up.
And then cheaper-priced onions will replace them in the market.- Jay
Georgia stands right now at 9.7% unemployment. We can simply tell all these American citizens who are sitting around collecting $250 a week unemployment that they can now make that or a little more picking the onions. With unemployment at 14% in Clayton county this should be welcome news for the unemployed. It should be anyway.
There ya go! Vidalia onion picking problem solved by the Doom himself.
getalife
May 26th, 2011
1:59 pm
cons take the mandate regulation of deporting workers. Anti business..
worm
May 26th, 2011
1:59 pm
Jay works for Cynthia, who works for Soros-Enough said..The AJC has gone to hell and I’ll bet Grizzard is turning over in his grave.
BADA BING
May 26th, 2011
2:01 pm
MY GOD who will do the work if there are no immigrants? The question is answered…….There are bloggers on here right now that are discussing their back yard gardens They are choosing to do FARM WORK, even tho they don’t have to. What would Americans do if they had to pick crops? They would pick them, if they wanted to eat.
Bosch
May 26th, 2011
2:01 pm
Dave R.,
Oh, I would certainly prefer the truth. I think it’s pretty ballsy of Pawlenty to do it actually. But as most people vote for their own self interest (well most people, I wouldn’t say that of middle/lower class Republicans), saying it out loud is crazy.
See, here’s what I think about government spending. I don’t like it anymore than the next Teatard, but I’m realistic and know that it’s not really going to stop — and to be honest, I really don’t lose sleep over it. I don’t lose sleep over much of anything.
But one man’s earmark is another’s economic development, and another man’s job and livelihood. And a politician to just come out and say, “hey! I love you guys and all and I want your vote, but I’m gonna make sure your jobs go away” is kind of a dumb political move.
deegee
May 26th, 2011
2:02 pm
Bosch, that is a wonderful testament to your parenting skills. I don’t have teenagers but none of my friends would dare inconvenience their teenagers by asking them to perform manual labor.
I agree with you in that there should be a special place in hell for someone that would harm an animal or a child.
getalife
May 26th, 2011
2:02 pm
Doom lives in foxie land.
Way out there to the right.
Joe Mama
May 26th, 2011
2:03 pm
Doom — “There ya go! Vidalia onion picking problem solved by the Doom himself.”
I would pay extra if Doom would harvest and deliver them himself.
BADA BING
May 26th, 2011
2:03 pm
Bosch….I respect your opinion on fences. Do you have a fenced in yard, live in a gated community, do you have a door on your house, bedroom? Why, if they can’t keep people out 100%? Why waste the money on keeping yourself safe, if they don’t work?
jewcowboy
May 26th, 2011
2:04 pm
For you Bosch,
http://youtu.be/aLBAXOw2-kE
stands for decibels
May 26th, 2011
2:04 pm
I agree with you in that there should be a special place in hell for someone that would harm an animal or a child.
should be a special place in hell for jcb for posting that link @ 2.04.
jewcowboy
May 26th, 2011
2:05 pm
Dave. R.,
“would you prefer our candidates to continue to lie to us, or do you want the truth from them?”
How about for them to face reality and see that the American people like Medicare, and come up with a realistic way to pay for it rather than try to force their right-wing social engineering down the gullets of the people at the behest of their insurance industry backers?
deegee
May 26th, 2011
2:06 pm
Don’t unemployed people already know that they can work in the fields and make more than $250.00 a week?
It never seems to amaze me that an uneducated Guatemalan teenager can traverse hundreds of miles of rough terrain, enter the country illegally and find a job on a farm, but an uneducated teenager from Appalachia can’t find that same job.
Thulsa Doom
May 26th, 2011
2:06 pm
Joe Mama,
I’ve done back breaking work before. A little hard work never hurt anyone. But frankly I don’t think you could afford my services.
Mark T
May 26th, 2011
2:06 pm
Midori
May 26th, 2011
1:30 pm
MADISON, Wisconsin (Reuters) – A Wisconsin judge on Thursday voided a controversial Republican-backed law restricting the collective bargaining rights of public sector unions.
Dane County Judge Maryann Sumi said Republican lawmakers violated the state’s open meetings law in rushing the legislation through during massive protests at the state Capitol earlier this year.
Sumi ruled the evidence was “clear and convincing” that Republicans failed to comply with the law in a hastily called meeting in March to push through legislation containing the collective bargaining changes.
The Wisconsin proposal championed by Republican Governor Scott Walker would eliminate most collective bargaining rights for public sector unions and require them to pay more for pensions and health coverage. The law has been on hold pending the legal decision.
(Reporting by Jeff Mayers; Writing by Greg McCune; Editing by Peter Bohan)
Gee, I wonder why….
Judge Maryann Sumi should have recused herself entirely from the Wisconsin battle due to her inability to be neutral in this case. You see, Maryann Sumi has a clear conflict of interest. Her son is a political operative who also happens to be a former lead field manager with the AFL-CIO and data manager for the SEIU State Council. Both the SEIU and the AFL-CIO have members who are public-sector employees in Wisconsin. In fact, as a federation, the AFL-CIO can boast of several member-unions that represent public-sector employees. Maryann Sumi is hardly an unbiased judge in the matter.
josef nix
May 26th, 2011
2:07 pm
To those who doubt “profiling” won’t be at work…
I once did a paper on just such in relation to the Carpetbag-Scalawag colonialism hereabouts. I picked want ads in the AJC and chose companies from Up North. I did a sampling of 50. First I called using my native accent, but paying specific attention to my grammar, vocabulary, and syntax to be sure it was in conformity with the standards of the English language. In 40 of the cases, I was told the job was filled. Next, I called the same companies using the pronunciation patterns of the North, but making grammatical, syntactical and lexical errors. I was not only provided with information that the post was open, but was offered interviews in 20 cases of those 30 earlier “closed.” I was offered the job in 17 of those after interviewing. Make of that what one will, but it told me all I ever needed to know about that. Why would “Hispanic” be any different?
Joe Mama
May 26th, 2011
2:08 pm
Doom — “Joe Mama, I’ve done back breaking work before. A little hard work never hurt anyone. But frankly I don’t think you could afford my services.”
You’ll never know until you enter the market and set your price point.
jewcowboy
May 26th, 2011
2:08 pm
BADA BING,
“What would Americans do if they had to pick crops? ”
Go to Ruby Tuesday’s?
sallie
May 26th, 2011
2:08 pm
“Build the dang moat and fill it with moet” Herman Cain
josef nix
May 26th, 2011
2:08 pm
worm
“Jay works for Cynthia, who works for Soros-Enough said..The AJC has gone to hell and I’ll bet Grizzard is turning over in his grave.”
And there it is, the Soros card? Gevalt! What IS it with some folks and Soros, I keep asking. All they can do is call him, not unwarrently, a wheeler dealer of questionable business ethics…and…?
The only thing I can see that sets him apart other than his skill is that he’s on the left…and? Can’t lefties play the game…?
Thulsa Doom
May 26th, 2011
2:08 pm
deegee,
On top of that the uneducated Guatemalan teenager usually can’t speak English either.
Bosch
May 26th, 2011
2:09 pm
deegee,
Oh I inconvenience my kids all the time — when I ask them to do chores and they give me the “are you gonna pay me” smack, I always tell them “hell no! You live here just like I do and sure as hell don’t get paid to mow the lawn or do laundry”
jewcowboy,
That was just mean — my toes are all curled up now — and I only like for my toes to curl under way different circumstances…….
John Birch
May 26th, 2011
2:09 pm
What a blessing it is to have a journalist that knows more about constitutional law than the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court! I for one couldn’t be happier.
Bosch
May 26th, 2011
2:09 pm
How about for them to face reality and see that the American people like Medicare, and come up with a realistic way to pay for it rather than try to force their right-wing social engineering down the gullets of the people at the behest of their insurance industry backers?
TESTIFY!!
Jay
May 26th, 2011
2:09 pm
Well, before we go overboard on Pawlenty, from Iowa Public Radio:
Pawlenty didn’t call for an abrupt end to the per gallon tax credit for ethanol. Instead, Pawlenty called for phasing it out — a concept the Iowa Renewable Fuels Association had already embraced. Today, Iowa Governor Terry Branstad, a Republican who is an investor in one of Iowa’s ethanol plants, said phasing out those ethanol-production incentives “makes sense.”
…. Bill Couser, a farmer who serves on the board of directors for the “Lincolnway Energy” ethanol plant near Nevada, Iowa, suggested Iowa farmers and the state’s ethanol industry are realists when it comes to the subsidy.
“Can we stand on our own two feet someday? You bet,” Couser said during a question-and-answer session at the Iowa Energy Forum. “I think we’re going to have to because I think that’s what’s coming down the pike.”
…. Iowa Agriculture Secretary Bill Northey, a Republican and a row-crop farmer from northwest Iowa, said most farmers believe it’s “logical” that the ethanol subsidy will be reduced, if not eliminated.”
In other words, the ethanol industry was already way ahead of Pawlenty.
BADA BING
May 26th, 2011
2:10 pm
cowboy….does making your own salad at the salad bar really equate to FARM WORK? Then I am a farmer!!
Bosch
May 26th, 2011
2:12 pm
Dang Jay, you ruined my fun….
Can you answer my question from earlier?
Jay
May 26th, 2011
2:13 pm
So Mark T., you no doubt also believe that Justice Thomas should recuse himself from the health-care decision, given his wife’s involvement in the effort to overturn it.
And John Birch, I didn’t imply in any way that I knew better than Roberts. I said I agreed with him on all the legal points. I did question his assertion about the impact on discrimination, but that wasn’t a legal question.
I do, however, reserve the right to disagree with him in the future!
kimmer
May 26th, 2011
2:14 pm
“In a dissent joined by Justice Douglas Ginsberg, Justice Stephen Breyer asserts that the Arizona law may increase job discrimination against legal workers of Hispanic ancestry. As he points out, employers may try to minimize chances of running afoul of the law by simply refusing to hire anybody who might be illegal. ”
This illustrates just another among many reasons why hispanic americans should be MORE outraged by the current illegal immigration problem than anybody! But as a general rule they appear to be just the opposite. WAKE UP PEOPLE!
Joe Mama
May 26th, 2011
2:15 pm
josef — “Make of that what one will, but it told me all I ever needed to know about that. Why would “Hispanic” be any different?”
My wife was a recruiting director during the dot-com era, and she encountered many, many instances of companies making it clear that they didn’t want certain types of employees. Sometimes gender was an issue. Sometimes it was race. Sometimes age made a difference. In one instance that really bothered her, it was religion that was at issue.
Employers can’t openly discriminate, but they routinely ask recruiters to screen out applicants who are, for whatever reason, not what the employer wants. And according to the letter of the law, that’s legal. It’s a lousy situation, but what’s a recruiter to do if they want the fee that comes with filling that position? Send people they *know* the client doesn’t want and risk losing the business? Or act as the prospective employer’s hatchet man and ignore the people who don’t match the unwritten list of qualifications?
Just one of the reasons my wife bailed out on being a recruiter.
jm
May 26th, 2011
2:16 pm
“and come up with a realistic way to pay for it” not possible given the demographic mountain rolling our way.
“rather than try to force their right-wing social engineering” good, I see you’ve picked up some soundbites and talking points
Jay
May 26th, 2011
2:16 pm
Bosch, the Ga. law gets phased in. I can’t recall exactly, but I believe it’s first those businesses with more than 500 employees, then those with more than 100, and finally, two or three years from now, those with more than 10.
Those with fewer than 10 are unaffected.
Thulsa Doom
May 26th, 2011
2:17 pm
Joe Mama
May 26th, 2011
2:08 pm
Doom — “Joe Mama, I’ve done back breaking work before. A little hard work never hurt anyone. But frankly I don’t think you could afford my services.”
You’ll never know until you enter the market and set your price point.
If you want vidalias picked at $66.75 per hour then I’m cool with that. Come to think of it I could probably pick lot of bags in an hour even at that rate. Assuming I could pick 10 bags an hour only which is probably really, really slow picking then the cost if I sold directly to you would be only $6.67 an hour. Not bad. Of course in the real world there’s a multitude of other costs that would figure into the cost such as fertilizer and planting equipment, pesticides, land, taxes, more taxes, taxes I haven’t fathomed yet, oops- price is right back to $40 a bag. If you can afford $40 a bag then your job is paying very well these days.
Adam
May 26th, 2011
2:18 pm
I’m skipping this one….
Bosch
May 26th, 2011
2:18 pm
Thanks Jay! Good to know.
jewcowboy
May 26th, 2011
2:19 pm
BADA BING,
“does making your own salad at the salad bar really equate to FARM WORK? ”
That is as close as I want to come to farm work. Do fields have sneeze guards?
josef nix
May 26th, 2011
2:20 pm
Farm work? I’ve chopped and picked my row of cotton and grubbed my row of sweet potatoes in the hot Mississippi sun and it was no fun…had to do it, not because we were poor, but because Mama said we’d know where our good life came from…this was back when mechanization was just coming in and those crops were still labor intensive…like many food crops still are…
Yahtzee
May 26th, 2011
2:20 pm
Jay,
Why would Justice Thomas recuse himself from the healthcare decision? He is not directly involved with what his wife is choosing to do. However, you can certainly make the case that Justice Kagan should recuse herself as she was part of the Administration and help defend the law, but she more than likely won’t.
If they both recused theirselves, the outcome would be the same regardless.
Jay
May 26th, 2011
2:21 pm
Read Mark T’s comments on the Wisconsin case, Yahtzee. Then you’ll see my point.
Bosch
May 26th, 2011
2:21 pm
And why exactly is Mrs. Justice Thomas trying to have the HC law overturned?
Adam
May 26th, 2011
2:22 pm
Pawlenty didn’t call for an abrupt end to the per gallon tax credit for ethanol. Instead, Pawlenty called for phasing it out — a concept the Iowa Renewable Fuels Association had already embraced.
Ah, I see, so not a flip flop, just a clarification. He plays this game well….
Joe Mama
May 26th, 2011
2:23 pm
Doom — “Of course in the real world there’s a multitude of other costs that would figure into the cost such as fertilizer and planting equipment, pesticides, land, taxes, more taxes, taxes I haven’t fathomed yet, oops- price is right back to $40 a bag. If you can afford $40 a bag then your job is paying very well these days.”
I just said I’d pay extra if you picked and delivered them, cowboy. I don’t have a lot of faith in your agricultural acumen beyond that. You let me and the farmer work out the price I’m going to pay, and we’ll let you pick, bag and deliver, k?
jm
May 26th, 2011
2:23 pm
Neutron Jack should run, if he weren’t too old.
jewcowboy
May 26th, 2011
2:23 pm
Yahtzee,
“Why would Justice Thomas recuse himself from the healthcare decision?”
Because he uses health care and therefore cannot possible be impartial. Or at least that is the line of logic used by the right wingers who want the Prop 8 ruling overturned because Judge Walker didn’t recuse himself due to him actually having a sexual preference.
BADA BING
May 26th, 2011
2:24 pm
cowboy….if they had sneeze guards how would they dust the crops? Besides, disgusting things help the crops grow, do you know what is in fertilizer?
hsn
May 26th, 2011
2:25 pm
Jay,
Was E-Verify as passed by the Congress of the United States, supposed to be voluntary or mandatory? If it was voluntary, then it will be wrong to “force” businesses to use it!
The most disturbing part of this “ruling” is that people of specific ancestry may NOT EVEN be considered for hire because employers wouldn’t want to deal with the headaches and possible discrimination lawsuits thay could face. This is plainly wrong !!!
Remember, it is the same cons in the court who ruled to give companies unlimited powers to buy elections at any cost they can afford. Unbelievable!
Ginsberg and Breyer have it right !!! It is about civil liberties !!
Joe Mama
May 26th, 2011
2:26 pm
BADA BING — “do you know what is in fertilizer?”
If you’re talking about what I think you’re talking about, there’s not much of that in US-produced fertilizer at all. But you *can* find it in some extenders for livestock feed.
jewcowboy
May 26th, 2011
2:26 pm
jm,
“not possible given the demographic mountain rolling our way.”
Of course it is…
“good, I see you’ve picked up some soundbites and talking points”
I do like to co-opt the right wing echo chamber’s inane ramblings…
Thulsa Doom
May 26th, 2011
2:28 pm
josef nix
May 26th, 2011
2:20 pm
Farm work? I’ve chopped and picked my row of cotton and grubbed my row of sweet potatoes in the hot Mississippi sun and it was no fun…- josef nix
My sister in law’s mother and her sisters all picked cotton sharecropping in the cotton fields wayyy back. Her mother eventually died of emphysema that she said developed from the minute cotton fibers that would gather in her lungs and I think all 3 of her sisters also developed emphysema. Don’t know for sure if they were right in ascertaining that cotton picking was the cause but if so I would hate to think of all the millions of slaves and sharecroppers before them that also picked cotton.
USMC
May 26th, 2011
2:28 pm
“I do like to co-opt the right wing echo chamber’s inane ramblings…”
You sound more like an Ed Schultz or Keith Olbermann Droid, though.
Hillbilly D
May 26th, 2011
2:28 pm
but because Mama said we’d know where our good life came from…
I think everybody should try having a garden, if only for a year. People would learn just how hard it can be to feed yourself and how many things are beyond your control.
josef nix
May 26th, 2011
2:29 pm
JOE
So true. At the time I did that paper, the AJC was (I don’t know if they still are or not) running ads that specifically stated “no Southern accents.” (No Jews, Irish or Dogs need apply). I was offered a job around the same time with a salary and benefits package not to be sneezed at. The job? To teach the firm’s native terrain employees how to “get rid of their Southern accents.” Why me? Well, I already was doing their translations and interpreting for conferences and, well, I did use the languages of the participants and the language of the Americans was Yankee English…They simply couldn’t believe I would turn down the offer and refuse to renew my contracts with them…
AmVet
May 26th, 2011
2:29 pm
Doom, you wouldn’t last a day in those fields. Much less a week. Or month. Or…
At this point in my life, neither would I. But at least, I don’t feign otherwise…
jewcowboy
May 26th, 2011
2:29 pm
BADA BING,
“if they had sneeze guards how would they dust the crops?”
Dusting, huh? Isn’t that what the domestics are supposed to do…oh wait, then we get back to having to hire illegals.
“do you know what is in fertilizer?”
Lollipops and glitter?
jewcowboy
May 26th, 2011
2:31 pm
USMC,
“You sound more like an Ed Schultz or Keith Olbermann Droid, though”
Dang! I was going for more of either an ironic Limbaugh or slightly less unhinged Beck.
BADA BING
May 26th, 2011
2:31 pm
COWBOY…..lollipops, glitter, and powered unicorn horn.
Dave R.
May 26th, 2011
2:33 pm
“How about for them to face reality and see that the American people like Medicare, and come up with a realistic way to pay for it rather than try to force their right-wing social engineering down the gullets of the people at the behest of their insurance industry backers?”
jewcowboy, the American people like puppies, but we don’t give everyone who wants one a puppy. The American people like a lot of things, but they don’t want to pay for them; they want someone else to pay for them.
That is an unsustainable model.
Yahtzee
May 26th, 2011
2:33 pm
jewcowboy,
“Because he uses health care and therefore cannot possible be impartial.”…so wouldn’t every justice have to recuse theirselves since all of them use healthcare?
Im just wondering why Justice Thomas would have to recuse himself based on the premise that his wife is involved in a lobbying effort to repeal the healthcare law. I could see why if his wife had a financial stake in the outcome of the law, but I see no evidence of that. She gets paid to lobby for or against a bill or issue, but there is no financial gain from the outcome of whether the law is constitutional or not.
Bosch
May 26th, 2011
2:33 pm
” I could see why if his wife had a financial stake in the outcome of the law”
Yahtzee, so….you are arguing that the wife has no financial stake in this, but acknowledges that he gets paid for her lobbying efforts — really?
Dave R.,
The American people DO pay for Medicare — and they want to keep doing so.
Doggone/GA
May 26th, 2011
2:33 pm
“Wisconsin judge strikes down collective bargaining restrictions”
“(CNN) — A Wisconsin judge struck down that state’s controversial new collective bargaining law Thursday, ruling that GOP legislators failed to provide sufficient public notice before passing the measure this year”
http://www.cnn.com/2011/POLITICS/05/26/wisconsin.collective.bargaining/index.html?hpt=T2
getalife
May 26th, 2011
2:33 pm
Rand Paul stands up for freedom and is called a terrorist.
Stand up tea party.
Jack
May 26th, 2011
2:34 pm
Try using E-Verify. Then post an opinion.
Dave R.
May 26th, 2011
2:34 pm
For all the parrots who are posting about the Wis. judge striking down the anti-union law, this is just a final ruling following the stay put in place months ago. No change, no difference, still on the WAY it was passed in violation of open meetings, not on the Constitutionality of it.
Nothing to see here. No victory. Move on.
Thulsa Doom
May 26th, 2011
2:36 pm
I just said I’d pay extra if you picked and delivered them, cowboy. I don’t have a lot of faith in your agricultural acumen beyond that. You let me and the farmer work out the price I’m going to pay, and we’ll let you pick, bag and deliver, k?
Joe mama,
Cool. I’m in! $67 an hour plus my expenses in gas/ minimum 8 hour day. Ya gotta help out with gas- it aint cheap under Obama ya understand. I’ll work a Saturday or 2 to make sure you have plenty of onions. When do I start?
Kamchak
May 26th, 2011
2:36 pm
I think everybody should try having a garden, if only for a year. People would learn just how hard it can be to feed yourself and how many things are beyond your control.
Just put in two rows of beans and three rows of crowder peas. I’m (not so) patiently waiting for some much needed rain up here in this small hamlet in the N.C. Mtns.
Dave R.
May 26th, 2011
2:36 pm
“Dave R.,
The American people DO pay for Medicare — and they want to keep doing so.”
And the American people get far more in benefits than they pay in. The model is unsustainable. Wordsmithing your reply to make a cheap point doesn’t change that fact, Bosch.
Joe Mama
May 26th, 2011
2:37 pm
Hillbilly D — “I think everybody should try having a garden, if only for a year. People would learn just how hard it can be to feed yourself and how many things are beyond your control.”
Agreed. And no cheating and putting in just one crop, like tomatoes or potatoes. Put in four or five different things that have to be nurtured in different ways and which are harvested at different times of the year.
dizzynerve51
May 26th, 2011
2:38 pm
I paid $32.67 for a XBOX 360 and my mom got a 17 inch Toshiba laptop for $94.83 being delivered to our house tomorrow by FedEX. I will never again pay expensive retail prices at stores. I even sold a 46 inch HDTV to my boss for $650 and it only cost me $52.78 to get. Here is the website we using to get all this stuff, http://BidsWork.com
jm
May 26th, 2011
2:38 pm
Jay. Chew on this:
Let’s take a step back for a moment from all the data. Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac balance sheets were set up to absorb annual delinquency rates of around 2% on their guaranteed and owned portfolios (alternatively described as a 1% loss rate, assuming 50% salvage values on default)2. If they stuck to traditionally conforming loans, there’s a chance they could have avoided conservatorship, since their prime loan delinquency rates are 2.0%-2.5%. But once they got involved in riskier loans, they were engaging in activity that involves higher losses; to avoid this outcome, one must contravene the laws of underwriting and risk that go back hundreds of years. What drove Fannie Mae to go down this road? A combination of profit motive and HUD’s affordable housing goals; that part is unmistakable. The October 2000 HUD quote we published last time is a chilling anticipation of how HUD policies would drive both GSEs and the private sector into much riskier lending.
In 2002, Nobel Laureate Joseph Stiglitz and future OMB Director Peter Orszag sided with the Department of Housing and Urban Development and the majority in Congress who supported the GSEs, and their 0.45% capital standards on guarantees:
“The probability of a shock as severe as embodied in the risk-based capital standard is substantially less than one in 500,000 – and may be smaller than one in three million. Given the low probability of the stress test shock occurring, and assuming that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac hold sufficient capital to withstand that shock, the exposure of the government to the risk that the GSEs will become insolvent appears quite low…”3
Stiglitz and Orszag wrote that the expected cost to the government of guaranteeing $1 trillion of mortgages was $2 million. This may be the largest cost mis-estimation ever as it relates to unfunded guarantees; the Federal Housing Finance Agency estimates that GSEs will cost taxpayers $250-$300 billion. The Stiglitz paper, full of complex equations and formulas, was written after HUD has raised GSE affordable lending targets to 50% of all of their loans, so there was plenty
of evidence that the GSE mandate was rapidly changing. I guess the private sector wasn’t the only place where notions of leverage and risk were completely botched.
-let me translate for those a little less adept at reading (libs): government sucks at its job
Joe Mama
May 26th, 2011
2:38 pm
Doom — “Cool. I’m in! $67 an hour plus my expenses in gas/ minimum 8 hour day. Ya gotta help out with gas- it aint cheap under Obama ya understand. I’ll work a Saturday or 2 to make sure you have plenty of onions. When do I start?”
Pay attention, Doom. *I’ll* work out with the farmer what I’m going to pay. YOU harvest, bag and deliver.
It’s so hard to find good employees these days.
josef nix
May 26th, 2011
2:38 pm
Thulsa
It was not just slaves and sharecroppers picking cotton, mind you. Unmentionable tells the story of one of his patients who, for reasons of confidentiality I cannot name, but just say she was the wife of one of the richest bidnessmen in Georgia. He was examining her multi-carated hands and remarked, “I bet you’ve never picked cotton?” (Theirs was a relationship that permitted such a comment) and she informed him, “well, you’d lose that bet.”
But, like I say a lot, the PC on picking cotton is, well, funny to those of us who grew up in a cotton patch!
jewcowboy
May 26th, 2011
2:39 pm
josef nix,
“no Southern accents.”
Now let’s be clear…there are “Southern” accents and then there are “Southern” accents. The latter sometimes being almost incomprehensible despite the level of education. Not all southern accents evoke images of gentility…some invoke images of, well, something rather more like this: http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lkwk0oDyGC1qbyxwq.jpg
jewcowboy
May 26th, 2011
2:40 pm
Yahtzee,
“She gets paid to lobby for or against a bill or issue,”
Um..he lives with someone who gets paid to lobby for something before him in the court. Her job is to influence the outcome. And the person she is sleeping with can make that happen…
josef nix
May 26th, 2011
2:40 pm
jewcowboy
And why not “no Brooklyn accents?” Not New England accents? No Midwestern accents? No, this is steeped in prejudice and bigotry. I have yet to run into an English language accent I cannot understand with just the slightest shift of decoding…
And that “image” you posted, yes, and that is my point exactly…steeped in prejudice and bigotry…
Bosch
May 26th, 2011
2:41 pm
jm,
Well, at least we don’t plagarize.
Thulsa Doom
May 26th, 2011
2:41 pm
AmVet
May 26th, 2011
2:29 pm
Doom, you wouldn’t last a day in those fields. Much less a week. Or month. Or…
At this point in my life, neither would I. But at least, I don’t feign otherwise…
AmVet,
How do you know that? You don’t know me and you haven’t seen me. And you don’t know some of the hard work I’ve done in my life. And what you don’t know is that the only thing I dislike about my job is that I work inside. I would love to work outside except there’s just not many outside type jobs that pay the kind of money I want.
Jay
May 26th, 2011
2:42 pm
hsn, the feds made it voluntary.
However, the law making it voluntary included 1.) a ban on states inflicting civil or criminal penalties for failing to use it and 2.) an explicit provision allowing states to use licensing powers to do so.
The language in question prohibits ““any State or local law imposing civil or criminal sanctions (other than through licensing and similar laws) upon those who employ, or recruit or refer for a fee for employment, unauthorized aliens.”
It’s that part in bold that’s at stake here.
jewcowboy
May 26th, 2011
2:42 pm
Dave R.,
“The American people like a lot of things, but they don’t want to pay for them; they want someone else to pay for them.”
Have we asked them to pay for those puppies?
Hillbilly D
May 26th, 2011
2:43 pm
According to the linquistics professors, there are 14 different major Southern accents, with all sorts of variations and sub-groups among those. Georgia has 3, depending on what part of the state.
Jay
May 26th, 2011
2:48 pm
jm, shall we review all of the disastrously bad decisions made by private industry in that same regard, leading to a blanket conclusion that private industry sucks at its job?
because the examples are manifold…..
My most recent favorite is NovaStar. It will curdle your blood:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/22/business/22excerpt.html?_r=2&pagewanted=1&ref=business&gwh=24B1824C9D771C1080561D3F52FFBF8E
jewcowboy
May 26th, 2011
2:48 pm
josef nix,
“And why not “no Brooklyn accents?” Not New England accents? No Midwestern accents? ”
I had assumed that the job was in Atlanta…perhaps erroneously. I don’t run into too many people with thick Brooklyn accents here…some but not may. The majority I run into are southern, whether from GA, NC, AL, MS or LA.
“steeped in prejudice and bigotry…”
And when you here a really thick, almost incomprehensible Brooklyn accent, does you mind not run to this: http://hotchickswithdouchebags.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/Caption-This-bags.jpg
And when you here a really thick, almost incomprehensible New England accent, does you mind not run to this: http://d3hqdt8j93rgvn.cloudfront.net/Image/MEDIUM_8a78c6e02140d93101214457d2e82584.jpg
Thulsa Doom
May 26th, 2011
2:49 pm
Joe Mama,
My original point was that I would pick at $67 an hour which is worth my time to do on a saturday for 8 hours. I told you from the outset that you couldn’t afford me. Pay attention to your reading comprehension please- all you accomplished was to waste both of our time. If you can’t afford to pay that then there was no point in going into the “I’ll work with the farmer” routine.
josef nix
May 26th, 2011
2:50 pm
Hillbilly
As you know, Unmentionable and I are both “half breeds” Swamp Rats and Gully Jumpers…we speak both dialects as “mother/father tongues.” What is really intriguing is when we use which one and for what purposes…laid back, gregarious, romantic? Swamp rat. Introspective, solitary and keep your distance? Gully jumper…a fight? Now there’s the one to watch…what kind of fight? A brawl and a roll in the hay affterward? Swamp rat. One of us ain’t coming out of this in one piece? Gully jumper!
Bosch
May 26th, 2011
2:51 pm
Hillbilly Deluxe,
I’m partial to the folks down in the South part of the State that still say “oleo.”
@@
May 26th, 2011
2:52 pm
So Pawlenty did his research making sure he had support for his “end to ethanol subsidies”. Smart fella.
Our president could’ve used those kinda smarts when pushing thru Obamacare, but he didn’t…
care.
Yahtzee
May 26th, 2011
2:53 pm
bosch,
“Yahtzee, so….you are arguing that the wife has no financial stake in this, but acknowledges that he gets paid for her lobbying efforts — really?”
He gets paid for her lobbying efforts? I wasn’t aware of that, and I’m pretty sure that is not the case.
jewcowboy,
his wife was lobbying against the healthcare bill to congress, but stopped in december 2010. the case hasn’t made it’s way to the supreme court, so she is not lobbying for or against it
AmVet
May 26th, 2011
2:55 pm
Just a hunch from a lifetime of experience, Doom. Including MANY hours working in fields and on farms. As a teenager.
And there’s the rub.
$66/hour? Given the chance to prove your worth, I honestly doubt you could outperform the guys getting 15% – 20% of that…
Hillbilly D
May 26th, 2011
2:55 pm
josef
My accent, while being pretty pronounced so I’ve been told, varies according to who I’m talking to. I’m most at ease talking to the homefolks, though. They truly understand that you can tell as much by what I don’t say as by what I do say. People from other areas don’t get that.
Jay
May 26th, 2011
2:56 pm
fresh sheets
josef nix
May 26th, 2011
2:58 pm
Jewcowboy
Brooklyn?
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.vosizneias.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/edk1.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.vosizneias.com/50630/2010/03/04/new-york-who-can-save-albany-ed-koch-says-he-will-give-it-a-try/&usg=__3gcG-3es7BGU5dqkIJhpK4oP0q8=&h=319&w=485&sz=54&hl=en&start=0&zoom=1&tbnid=YrbPlAdEqNMDtM:&tbnh=129&tbnw=172&ei=-qHeTbT_DKj40gGI9OHICg&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dmayor%2Bed%2Bkoch%26hl%3Den%26biw%3D1259%26bih%3D543%26gbv%3D2%26tbm%3Disch&itbs=1&iact=hc&vpx=798&vpy=87&dur=2305&hovh=182&hovw=277&tx=142&ty=96&page=1&ndsp=21&ved=1t:429,r:5,s:0&biw=1259&bih=543
New England…
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_VDoidtH9tt4/TNBQ1bW7DPI/AAAAAAAAAns/ebLI31pMFUU/s1600/john-f-kennedy.jpg&imgrefurl=http://weblinkworld.co.cc/john-kennedy-photo&usg=__CAGefE9ZRrZT9vQYt7TW9whpHBA=&h=400&w=600&sz=49&hl=en&start=14&zoom=1&tbnid=h4_copgh5TcnOM:&tbnh=153&tbnw=197&ei=YKLeTa_VJeTg0QG41sSoCg&prev=/search%3Fq%3Djohn%2Bkennedy%26hl%3Den%26biw%3D1259%26bih%3D504%26gbv%3D2%26tbm%3Disch&itbs=1&iact=hc&vpx=418&vpy=129&dur=1700&hovh=183&hovw=275&tx=165&ty=62&page=2&ndsp=14&ved=1t:429,r:9,s:14&biw=1259&bih=504
Hillbilly D
May 26th, 2011
2:59 pm
Jay @ 2:48
That’s just another example of why I don’t think stock prices, matter, unless one is invested in stocks. Often times, stock prices have nothing to do with the health of the business.
Adam
May 26th, 2011
2:59 pm
Dave R: For all the parrots who are posting about the Wis. judge striking down the anti-union law, this is just a final ruling following the stay put in place months ago. No change, no difference, still on the WAY it was passed in violation of open meetings, not on the Constitutionality of it.
Nothing to see here. No victory. Move on.
It is a victory against those who think they can use underhanded tactics and break the law in order to get their way. In that sense, I am quite happy.
And the American people get far more in benefits than they pay in. The model is unsustainable.
You’re right, as-is it can’t work right. Up the Medicare tax.
OH SNAP did you just blow a gasket? I SAID RAISE TAXES OMG.
jewcowboy
May 26th, 2011
3:00 pm
josef nix,
Both are before my time
BADA BING
May 26th, 2011
3:00 pm
Fresh sheets? Who changes those sheets, an American or an immigrant? Ahnold’s maid?
Hillbilly D
May 26th, 2011
3:00 pm
Well damn. Things were getting interesting here and he went and opened another thread. What’d you do this time Josef?
josef nix
May 26th, 2011
3:01 pm
DAVE
Fresh sheets? Bingo!
And posting too fast when I tried to say it the first time…hmmmmm….
Love those image links…oy!
josef nix
May 26th, 2011
3:02 pm
Hillbilly
Reckon maybe it might have had something to do with the AJC’s willingness to have put its stamp of approval in Yankee linguistic imperalism here in the colonies..
josef nix
May 26th, 2011
3:03 pm
BADA
An immigrant changes them. Imam Torquemada…
jm
May 26th, 2011
3:07 pm
Bosch 2:41 – I have no idea what you’re talking about.
BADA BING
May 26th, 2011
3:08 pm
josef…..i have a southern accent, and i speak somewhat rapidly. I was in Australia in 93 and I stopped at a Burger King. I ordered a #1 the same as in the US with onion, lettuce, and mayo, and a coke. The young teenage girl looked at me dumbfounded and said ” Sir, I didn’t understand a single word you said’! I guess I wasn’t speaking Australian, Mate.
Joe Mama
May 26th, 2011
3:16 pm
Doom — “My original point was that I would pick at $67 an hour which is worth my time to do on a saturday for 8 hours.”
My original point was that I’d pay more if you harvested and delivered the Vidalias yourself, but nowhere did I say I’d pay *you* a cent. Since you’re not involved in the transaction *now,* you certainly wouldn’t be the one I’m paying *more* to than I’m already paying.
You let another leapt-to conclusion get the better of you, Mr. Doom.
Doom — “I told you from the outset that you couldn’t afford me.”
To borrow from your post on the previous page, “How do you know that? You don’t know me and you haven’t seen me.”
If you don’t like people to presume things about you, then don’t be a jerk and presume things about others. You don’t know about my financial circumstances any more than AmVet knows about your experience and skill with harvesting crops.
“Pay attention to your reading comprehension please”
Pay attention to your own. The voices in your head led you astray again.
“all you accomplished was to waste both of our time.”
There’s nothing making you respond to me, Doom. And if you don’t feel like wasting your time with me, then don’t post in response to me.
“If you can’t afford to pay that then there was no point in going into the “I’ll work with the farmer” routine.”
I didn’t offer to pay *you* anything. Please work harder on your reading comprehension, please.
Brittanicus
May 26th, 2011
3:30 pm
A VICTORY FOR ALL JOBLESS AMERICANS
The American people finally have their interests recognized, by the Supreme Court of the land, asserting that Arizona’s federal mandatory E-Verify was upheld. Today it’s a major victory for the American workers and a killing stroke to the US Chamber of Commerce and an attempt by the Department of Justice to protect illegal aliens in the workplace. This will strengthen enforcement by attrition in every business and control penalties with businesses that don’t comply. It gives all states the right to implement and mandate the E-Verify program and open the door to hefty fines, loss of business licenses, assets and the risk of prison.
Other states will now follow the example of Arizona and those who don’t, will be in the forefront of mass evacuations from these hard policing states to states as the Sanctuary State of California, Nevada and Utah. In a 5-3 victory the justices, repudiated the pro-illegal politicians, Governors, Mayors and lower ranks of leftist and Rino Republicans.
Nothing will do more, including the fence, to retard future illegal immigration occupation and accelerate the departure of the current 20 million illegal populations than taking away the job magnet. This is a significant win as other States following Arizona’s lead, could have been crushed if the verdict had gone the alternative route. The American workers now have the impetus, to push the Congress and with the help of the monolithic Tea Party to mandate E-Verify nationwide. This will mean the propagation of E-Verify, with audits on all manner of business, including contractors and sub-contractors in every occupation. American labor must unite to uncover unscrupulous companies from large to small, who are using discount services. More and more patriotic Citizens and residents are joining other “Whistle Blowers” in contacting ICE and local police, of illegal aliens working in construction, manufacturing and thousands of other industries.
Another issue that many states see as a major peril to our sovereignty rights is illegal aliens using the absentee ballot system to vote in elections. New York, Colorado, New Jersey, Texas are being investigated by state Attorney General commissions. Acorn is still a major player and although dissolved on paper, is still involved in the registration racket. There are occurrences in California and Nevada of manipulation of voter rolls.
Can any American citizen or green card holder imagine what this country was like thirty years ago, before the illegal immigrant invasion? How many hundreds of billions of dollars, perhaps even a Trillion in three decades? Fewer illegal aliens meant fewer taxes to support the huge support mechanism that we have today? An example would be California, was a less congested place, where there was room to breathe? Just think were those taxes to subsidize illegal immigrants today could be highly beneficial, if it was spent on our own population. Education, for instance is forced on us, by a federal court that we must pay the schooling for every child of illegal immigrants. Then we have health care that the courts say, that anybody who breaks the law to come here is entitled to treatment. Remember in1912 the Titanic sunk, but not because of the iceberg above the Atlantic Ocean, but what was ominously concealed beneath the surface?
This is the same story with illegal immigration and the failure to place, 5000 “boots on ground. “of the each border States Nation Guardsman permanently? I was astounded to read a “Wikileaks” secret document, that the border is intentionally left open for the clandestine arrangement to merge Canada, Mexico and the United States. You have a chance to read these reports at Wikileaks website, under the headline, “Viewing cable 05OTTAWA268, PLACING A NEW NORTH AMERICAN INITIATIVE.” This is a serious situation concocted by the Canadian Paul CELLUCCI and American Ambassador, which seems to never have been observed by Congress.
From both parties are hundreds of thousands, tens of millions finding that the TEA PARTY, doesn’t discriminate against race or religion. That these people are delusion by the Liberals, democrats and Republicans, that are not doing enough to stop the in-sourcing of illegal immigrants or outsourcing of jobs to foreign countries. Cafta and Nafta was a massive mistake as the whole “FREE TRADE AGEEMENTS” have been detrimental to our society. We are importing everything from a nail file to steel, at far below the cost of doing business here? Once a lender of billions of dollars, we must now go cap in hand to Communist China, that owns our debts. We are the greatest market in the world, but our commerce is undercut by artificially engineering their currencies. The only winners in this commercial game are the importers of inferior products, who are profiting.
As Billionaire Donald Trump we should place a 25 % import tax on everything coming to our country, and begin to rebuild our manufacturing industries again. An intentional failure of every administration to secure our borders or enact laws that would obstruct foreign national at the border, or a tracking system to deport visa overstays. E-Verify will eradicate this problem of the issuance of a Secure Communities law, to enforce that every police department fingerprint and send those scans to ICE. If you want less government, a fair Tax system, individual responsibility and the return of federal excessive power to the states, join the Tea Party in your local area. Tell your Federal, State or local lawmaker, unless they join the TEA PARTY, they will be out of office in 2012.
Contact them at Senate—202-224–3121/ House—202-225–3121.
BILLIN ABQ
May 26th, 2011
3:35 pm
i’m sure this decision terrifies the new mexico state legislators.
also, we can get all the labor we want via the old bracero program.
Joe Mama
May 26th, 2011
3:40 pm
TL; DR
hsn
May 26th, 2011
5:09 pm
Jay said,
“However, the law making it voluntary included 1.) a ban on states inflicting civil or criminal penalties for failing to use it and 2.) an explicit provision allowing states to use licensing powers to do so.
The language in question prohibits ““any State or local law imposing civil or criminal sanctions (other than through licensing and similar laws) upon those who employ, or recruit or refer for a fee for employment, unauthorized aliens.”
It’s that part in bold that’s at stake here.”
Okay, I stand corrected and thanks for clarifying that point! However, I still think Ginsberg and Breyer have a fair point, and you made that, too. A certain percentage of US citizens who look a certain way stand a higher chance of suffering job application-related discrimination. This was perhaps an unintended consequence of this law?
What we need is a better immigration reform with tamper-proof ID provisions to eliminate fraud cases and ID theft. Some provisions in a bill proposed by Chuck Schumer recently were pretty good… I hope the congress resolves this issue on a national level once and for all. It is dividing this country at a scary rate.
mark s
May 26th, 2011
5:14 pm
well well well the worm has turned !!!!
Miller
May 26th, 2011
5:16 pm
The Supremes’ decisions on these hot button social issues are so predictable now, what with the 5-4 ideological split. Kinda takes all the suspense out of waiting for the verdict when you know months, or years, beforehand what it’ll be.
So Jay if you really think Arizona’s “most recent” immigration bill is going to be overturned you’re dreamin man.
mark s
May 26th, 2011
5:35 pm
adious ameago
mark s
May 26th, 2011
5:36 pm
ye ha riba
mark s
May 26th, 2011
5:49 pm
god bless airzonia god bless jan brewer god bless america !!!!!!!!!!!! and adios amego !!!!!!!!!!!!
Joe Mama
May 26th, 2011
5:58 pm
Oh, look, it’s got poor command of *two* languages.
Mike Kraft
May 26th, 2011
6:36 pm
Dont continue the media lie please. The current Arizona law is not being challenged on civil liberties. Those on the left and in the media and newspapers apparently, want that to be the story.
It is being challeneged on jurisdiction rights of the state.
As Obama and holder know they have zero “race card” case.
So report it honestly, Holder and obama are not sueing arizona cause of civil liberty violations, thats you imagination.
“It alleges Arizona illegally intruded into federal jurisdiction when it passed the legislation set to become law later this month”
RW-(the original)
May 26th, 2011
6:57 pm
Justice Douglas Ginsberg?
WhoDat?
mark s
May 26th, 2011
8:04 pm
ha ha ha ho ho ho hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee
magyart
May 26th, 2011
8:07 pm
I applaud this decision by the Supreme Court and hope that most states pass similar laws. Although, I would rather see federal legislation forcing all employers to use E-Verify for all employees. The federal SAVE Act would accomplish this.
Nothing in this law conflicts or preempts federal law, as the U.S. Chamber of Commerce and the U.S. Attorney General claimed. The court ruled the state is on “correct” legal grounds when state law mirrors federal law. This ruling may be a good indicator the SB1070 will be upheld.
Visit Numbers USA and ALIPAC websites and help fight illegal immigration.
mark s
May 26th, 2011
8:15 pm
this is great the best news i’ve heard in years on inforceing our immigration laws
mark s
May 26th, 2011
8:15 pm
this is great the best news i’ve heard in years on inforceing our immigration laws
Mighy Righty
May 26th, 2011
8:18 pm
Jay
May 26th, 2011
12:40 pm
If the Vidalia onions don’t get picked, they will become a scarce commodity. They will become higher priced next year when wages to pick them will go up.
And then cheaper-priced onions will replace them in the market.
Jay, your argument is not valid. It assumes the “other” onions are not afected by the same market forces as the Vidalias. Who ever is picking the other onions can just as well pick the Vidalias.
TnGelding
May 27th, 2011
3:22 am
It was bound to happen:
http://www.ajc.com/news/georgia-politics-elections/farmers-tie-labor-shortage-958782.html