Court decision in Arizona case critical to Georgia law
In a 5-3 decision, the Supreme Court has upheld a controversial illegal immigration bill enacted in Arizona. It’s an important decision, and as a matter of law if not policy, I actually agree with it. However, it’s important to note what the decision does and does not do.
First, this is not a decision on Arizona’s most recent and controversial immigration bill, which has also been challenged in the courts. That case will be decided on grounds of civil liberties, due process, the Tenth Amendment and similar provisions, and will almost certainly be overturned in the end. It goes way too far.
Today’s decision deals instead with a bill that was signed into law back in 2007 by then-Gov. Janet Napolitano, now the secretary of Homeland Security, and was decided on the wording of existing federal law.
It deals with a very limited issue: Do the states have the power to deny licenses to businesses that do not use E-Verify to check the legal status of new workers? In a decision authored by Chief Justice John Roberts, the court said yes. As Roberts noted, federal law prohibits states from imposing civil or criminal violations on businesses that hire illegal immigrants. However, that same federal law does give states the power to address that issue “through licensing and similar laws.”
That’s what Arizona did, the high court says it’s legal, and again, I think they’re right. As Roberts writes, “Arizona’s procedures simply implement the sanctions that Congress expressly allowed the States to pursue through licensing laws.”
Second, the decision has a major impact on the future of Georgia’s new immigration law. HB 87, signed into law earlier this month by Gov. Nathan Deal, took the same basic approach on mandated use of the E-Verify system as did the 2007 Arizona. It too makes the issuance of business licenses conditional on agreeing to use E-Verify. Since the Arizona law survived challenge, the relevant part of HB 87 is now almost certain to survive legal challenge as well.
In fact, the Arizona law contains strong enforcement language that state Rep. Matt Ramsey, the author of Georgia’s law, did not include in his own bill. Ramsey said those provisions were not included because he feared they were unconstitutional, but in light of today’s ruling, they clearly are not.
Ramsey’s decision can be more plausibly explained by fear that if he included strong enforcement provisions, business opposition would have been enough to kill the legislation. And he was no doubt right.
UPDATE: In a dissent joined by Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg, Justice Stephen Breyer asserts that the Arizona law may increase job discrimination against legal workers of Hispanic ancestry. As he points out, employers may try to minimize chances of running afoul of the law by simply refusing to hire anybody who might be illegal.
Roberts brushes aside such concerns, but I think he’s wrong on that point. The concern is legitimate, but given the plain language in federal law, I’m not what can be done about it by the courts.
– Jay Bookman
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242 comments Add your comment
Recon (2nd.and 3rd.)
May 26th, 2011
1:46 pm
What could be significant in this SCOTUS ruling is it’s rejection of the federal governments position that only the Federal government has jurisdiction over immigration laws.
Hillbilly D
May 26th, 2011
1:47 pm
Mars Woman @ 1:37
Good point.
jewcowboy
May 26th, 2011
1:47 pm
“It is, after all, a government system.”
Yes..because AT&T never drops a call due to it being private industry.
Midori
May 26th, 2011
1:47 pm
Bosch – Face Ripper is channeling Bill Maher
http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/heather/bill-maher-face-ripper-monkey-2012
Joe Mama
May 26th, 2011
1:48 pm
Jay — “And then cheaper-priced onions will replace them in the market.”
I don’t know about y’all, but I’ve *got* to have my Vidalias in the spring and summmer. I don’t care if they’re going to cost me more because good ol’ boys are picking them instead of illegosos doing it.
AngryRedMarsWoman
May 26th, 2011
1:48 pm
“Not if it’s topped with barbed wire or razor wire?”
Wire snips? Bolt cutters? Ask your friend to climb up first and lay on the wire so you don’t hurt yourself?
Bosch
May 26th, 2011
1:49 pm
And anyone who seriously thinks building a freaking wall to keep out illegals is a plausible idea should not be addressed because they obviously have the cognitive abilities of a 10 year old.
AngryRedMarsWoman
May 26th, 2011
1:50 pm
Okay, @Josef, I will retract the use of the word squat as what they are doing does not by definition merit that label. But dude, you used the word “uppity” after chastising me for “squat”….for real?
AmVet
May 26th, 2011
1:50 pm
“…strong enforcement provisions, business opposition would have been enough to kill the legislation.”
And there’s the rub. Big business really doesn’t want to comply with those damn legality issues. Better to wreak havoc and then pay the fines.
And if you’re
luckyone of the most favored overlords, like BP, you get to write a ton of it off anyway.Either way, it’s just another cost of doing business for the Titans of Industry.
And life in the American Corporatocracy.
iDig iRun.
Hip and fit! (But spawn tend to scare me off!)
Bosch
May 26th, 2011
1:51 pm
Midori,
Well, that was indeed funny — I still like Maher even though he is a populist jerk, he still makes me laugh — but that whole thing is making my sphincters constrict.
Finn McCool
May 26th, 2011
1:51 pm
thanks Hillbilly!
Now to go get some illegals to help me build it…
Thulsa Doom
May 26th, 2011
1:52 pm
In a dissent joined by Justice Douglas Ginsberg, Justice Stephen Breyer asserts that the Arizona law may increase job discrimination against legal workers of Hispanic ancestry. As he points out, employers may try to minimize chances of running afoul of the law by simply refusing to hire anybody who might be illegal.
Roberts brushes aside such concerns, but I think he’s wrong on that point.- Jay
Jay,
Sorry but we can’t base law on may, might, could possibly, etc. If an Hispanic worker is legal he is legal. End of story.
As for employers minimizing hiring workers in an effort to minimize running afoul of the law that is a patently absurd argument. Employers already freely hire Hispanic workers all day long with full knowledge that some of them may be presenting bogus SS cards and other bogus documentation.
Do you honestly think the same carpet mills that today hire Hispanics knowing full well that some of them are presenting bogus ID will all of a sudden stop interviewing and hiring Hispanic workers who could pass E-verify? Its a ridiculous argument.
jewcowboy
May 26th, 2011
1:52 pm
Bosch,
“because they obviously have the cognitive abilities of a 10 year old.”
Kinda like those who think turning Medicare into a voucher system would be met with cheers from the one voting block that turns out in masses consistently?
Bosch
May 26th, 2011
1:53 pm
Is my earlier question just too dumb to answer? Maybe I’m the one with the cognitive abilities of a 10 year old…damn.
AngryRedMarsWoman
May 26th, 2011
1:53 pm
“because AT&T never drops a call due to it being private industry.”
HAHAHAHAHA……of course, with AT&T’s “stellar” coverage you would have to be able to make the call before they can drop it…and apparently most places I happen to be are places where making that call is impossible. But hey, AT&T just announced that I will now have 4G in Atlanta to NOT be able to actually connect to. a$$hats
Kevin
May 26th, 2011
1:53 pm
The only problem I have with the GA and AZ laws is that while our states will enforce the law more tightly, our neighboring states’s farmers, industry, etc. will continue to fly under the radar more easily and be able to out-price, out-produce and out-compete our own. This will result in LOST jobs in Georgia, blue- and white-collar. If you don’t think a major industrial operation will not take this into account when locating their next production facility you are drinking too much kool-aid. Alabama and SC farmers and local development authorities are probably already hoarse from cheering today’s decision.
If the Fed’s won’t enforce the law, it is foolhardy for a state to think doing so as an island will do anything but bump one problem next door only to gain many more by putting its own residents, small businesses, family farmers, cities and counties at a disadvantage. No illegal aliens will leave the US for this, they will take the cheap labor down the road, and anyone who used to employ them will either have to pay 3-4 times as much for the same labor (which the market can’t bear) or hire 1/3 – 1/4 as many workers, which won’t produce as much. (Say what you will about hispanic labor, and pardon the stereotype, but I’ve worked alongside them in the past and frankly, most of the time two of them would do the work of 4 to 6 average US-born workers.)
Here’s the big punchline though…A huge portion of the migrant worker population in Georgia lives within an hour of the state line, and can go to another state to work, but still go to Georgia emergency rooms and access other taxpayer-paid benefits, regardless of where they work. So that problem is not solved either. Can anyone point out how this bill BENEFITS the residents and businesses of Georgia?
Dave R.
May 26th, 2011
1:55 pm
“Ewww, wow, can the person posting as “Face Ripper Monkey” please change names? That’s making my butt sphincter constrict and it’s very uncomfortable. Just asking.”
I can think of one other handle to make your skin crawl, Bosch.
But I won’t . . .
p.s. Agree with you on the whole FRM handle, btw.
Bosch
May 26th, 2011
1:55 pm
Hi jewcowboy — I miss seeing you in these here parts.
Or kinda like telling Iowan corn farmers you want to end ethanol subsidies? Or telling Wall Streeters no more bailouts or no more too big to fail?
I mean geez.
deegee
May 26th, 2011
1:56 pm
And it is funny to think that when you have a minor construction project and you need some help you generally don’t think about getting your teenaged son or daughter and their buddies over to help you dig post holes, mix and pour concrete, clear brush, nail boards on a fence, etc.
Joe Mama
May 26th, 2011
1:57 pm
AmVet — “And there’s the rub. Big business really doesn’t want to comply with those damn legality issues. Better to wreak havoc and then pay the fines.”
I completely agree. I once worked for a corporate VP who actually asked me “would it be cheaper to fix it or to just pay the fine?” I was absolutely flabbergasted.
Just for added crapitude, I should point out that said VP now holds an elective political office.
Bosch
May 26th, 2011
1:57 pm
Dave R.,
It has to include clowns, right? Or snakes…….I don’t like snakes either, but not as much as I don’t like clowns.
Dave R.
May 26th, 2011
1:59 pm
“Or kinda like telling Iowan corn farmers you want to end ethanol subsidies? Or telling Wall Streeters no more bailouts or no more too big to fail? ”
Bosch and jewcowboy, would you prefer our candidates to continue to lie to us, or do you want the truth from them?
Bosch
May 26th, 2011
1:59 pm
deegee,
I sure as hell do. Well, I’m not sure of hell, don’t believe in it, but sometimes I wish I could so that guy who put the puppy in the oven would go there — but I certainly get my teenagers friends over to help out.
Thulsa Doom
May 26th, 2011
1:59 pm
If the Vidalia onions don’t get picked, they will become a scarce commodity. They will become higher priced next year when wages to pick them will go up.
And then cheaper-priced onions will replace them in the market.- Jay
Georgia stands right now at 9.7% unemployment. We can simply tell all these American citizens who are sitting around collecting $250 a week unemployment that they can now make that or a little more picking the onions. With unemployment at 14% in Clayton county this should be welcome news for the unemployed. It should be anyway.
There ya go! Vidalia onion picking problem solved by the Doom himself.
getalife
May 26th, 2011
1:59 pm
cons take the mandate regulation of deporting workers. Anti business..
worm
May 26th, 2011
1:59 pm
Jay works for Cynthia, who works for Soros-Enough said..The AJC has gone to hell and I’ll bet Grizzard is turning over in his grave.
BADA BING
May 26th, 2011
2:01 pm
MY GOD who will do the work if there are no immigrants? The question is answered…….There are bloggers on here right now that are discussing their back yard gardens They are choosing to do FARM WORK, even tho they don’t have to. What would Americans do if they had to pick crops? They would pick them, if they wanted to eat.
Bosch
May 26th, 2011
2:01 pm
Dave R.,
Oh, I would certainly prefer the truth. I think it’s pretty ballsy of Pawlenty to do it actually. But as most people vote for their own self interest (well most people, I wouldn’t say that of middle/lower class Republicans), saying it out loud is crazy.
See, here’s what I think about government spending. I don’t like it anymore than the next Teatard, but I’m realistic and know that it’s not really going to stop — and to be honest, I really don’t lose sleep over it. I don’t lose sleep over much of anything.
But one man’s earmark is another’s economic development, and another man’s job and livelihood. And a politician to just come out and say, “hey! I love you guys and all and I want your vote, but I’m gonna make sure your jobs go away” is kind of a dumb political move.
deegee
May 26th, 2011
2:02 pm
Bosch, that is a wonderful testament to your parenting skills. I don’t have teenagers but none of my friends would dare inconvenience their teenagers by asking them to perform manual labor.
I agree with you in that there should be a special place in hell for someone that would harm an animal or a child.
getalife
May 26th, 2011
2:02 pm
Doom lives in foxie land.
Way out there to the right.
Joe Mama
May 26th, 2011
2:03 pm
Doom — “There ya go! Vidalia onion picking problem solved by the Doom himself.”
I would pay extra if Doom would harvest and deliver them himself.
BADA BING
May 26th, 2011
2:03 pm
Bosch….I respect your opinion on fences. Do you have a fenced in yard, live in a gated community, do you have a door on your house, bedroom? Why, if they can’t keep people out 100%? Why waste the money on keeping yourself safe, if they don’t work?
jewcowboy
May 26th, 2011
2:04 pm
For you Bosch,
http://youtu.be/aLBAXOw2-kE
stands for decibels
May 26th, 2011
2:04 pm
I agree with you in that there should be a special place in hell for someone that would harm an animal or a child.
should be a special place in hell for jcb for posting that link @ 2.04.
jewcowboy
May 26th, 2011
2:05 pm
Dave. R.,
“would you prefer our candidates to continue to lie to us, or do you want the truth from them?”
How about for them to face reality and see that the American people like Medicare, and come up with a realistic way to pay for it rather than try to force their right-wing social engineering down the gullets of the people at the behest of their insurance industry backers?
deegee
May 26th, 2011
2:06 pm
Don’t unemployed people already know that they can work in the fields and make more than $250.00 a week?
It never seems to amaze me that an uneducated Guatemalan teenager can traverse hundreds of miles of rough terrain, enter the country illegally and find a job on a farm, but an uneducated teenager from Appalachia can’t find that same job.
Thulsa Doom
May 26th, 2011
2:06 pm
Joe Mama,
I’ve done back breaking work before. A little hard work never hurt anyone. But frankly I don’t think you could afford my services.
Mark T
May 26th, 2011
2:06 pm
Midori
May 26th, 2011
1:30 pm
MADISON, Wisconsin (Reuters) – A Wisconsin judge on Thursday voided a controversial Republican-backed law restricting the collective bargaining rights of public sector unions.
Dane County Judge Maryann Sumi said Republican lawmakers violated the state’s open meetings law in rushing the legislation through during massive protests at the state Capitol earlier this year.
Sumi ruled the evidence was “clear and convincing” that Republicans failed to comply with the law in a hastily called meeting in March to push through legislation containing the collective bargaining changes.
The Wisconsin proposal championed by Republican Governor Scott Walker would eliminate most collective bargaining rights for public sector unions and require them to pay more for pensions and health coverage. The law has been on hold pending the legal decision.
(Reporting by Jeff Mayers; Writing by Greg McCune; Editing by Peter Bohan)
Gee, I wonder why….
Judge Maryann Sumi should have recused herself entirely from the Wisconsin battle due to her inability to be neutral in this case. You see, Maryann Sumi has a clear conflict of interest. Her son is a political operative who also happens to be a former lead field manager with the AFL-CIO and data manager for the SEIU State Council. Both the SEIU and the AFL-CIO have members who are public-sector employees in Wisconsin. In fact, as a federation, the AFL-CIO can boast of several member-unions that represent public-sector employees. Maryann Sumi is hardly an unbiased judge in the matter.
josef nix
May 26th, 2011
2:07 pm
To those who doubt “profiling” won’t be at work…
I once did a paper on just such in relation to the Carpetbag-Scalawag colonialism hereabouts. I picked want ads in the AJC and chose companies from Up North. I did a sampling of 50. First I called using my native accent, but paying specific attention to my grammar, vocabulary, and syntax to be sure it was in conformity with the standards of the English language. In 40 of the cases, I was told the job was filled. Next, I called the same companies using the pronunciation patterns of the North, but making grammatical, syntactical and lexical errors. I was not only provided with information that the post was open, but was offered interviews in 20 cases of those 30 earlier “closed.” I was offered the job in 17 of those after interviewing. Make of that what one will, but it told me all I ever needed to know about that. Why would “Hispanic” be any different?
Joe Mama
May 26th, 2011
2:08 pm
Doom — “Joe Mama, I’ve done back breaking work before. A little hard work never hurt anyone. But frankly I don’t think you could afford my services.”
You’ll never know until you enter the market and set your price point.
jewcowboy
May 26th, 2011
2:08 pm
BADA BING,
“What would Americans do if they had to pick crops? ”
Go to Ruby Tuesday’s?
sallie
May 26th, 2011
2:08 pm
“Build the dang moat and fill it with moet” Herman Cain
josef nix
May 26th, 2011
2:08 pm
worm
“Jay works for Cynthia, who works for Soros-Enough said..The AJC has gone to hell and I’ll bet Grizzard is turning over in his grave.”
And there it is, the Soros card? Gevalt! What IS it with some folks and Soros, I keep asking. All they can do is call him, not unwarrently, a wheeler dealer of questionable business ethics…and…?
The only thing I can see that sets him apart other than his skill is that he’s on the left…and? Can’t lefties play the game…?
Thulsa Doom
May 26th, 2011
2:08 pm
deegee,
On top of that the uneducated Guatemalan teenager usually can’t speak English either.
Bosch
May 26th, 2011
2:09 pm
deegee,
Oh I inconvenience my kids all the time — when I ask them to do chores and they give me the “are you gonna pay me” smack, I always tell them “hell no! You live here just like I do and sure as hell don’t get paid to mow the lawn or do laundry”
jewcowboy,
That was just mean — my toes are all curled up now — and I only like for my toes to curl under way different circumstances…….
John Birch
May 26th, 2011
2:09 pm
What a blessing it is to have a journalist that knows more about constitutional law than the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court! I for one couldn’t be happier.
Bosch
May 26th, 2011
2:09 pm
How about for them to face reality and see that the American people like Medicare, and come up with a realistic way to pay for it rather than try to force their right-wing social engineering down the gullets of the people at the behest of their insurance industry backers?
TESTIFY!!
Jay
May 26th, 2011
2:09 pm
Well, before we go overboard on Pawlenty, from Iowa Public Radio:
Pawlenty didn’t call for an abrupt end to the per gallon tax credit for ethanol. Instead, Pawlenty called for phasing it out — a concept the Iowa Renewable Fuels Association had already embraced. Today, Iowa Governor Terry Branstad, a Republican who is an investor in one of Iowa’s ethanol plants, said phasing out those ethanol-production incentives “makes sense.”
…. Bill Couser, a farmer who serves on the board of directors for the “Lincolnway Energy” ethanol plant near Nevada, Iowa, suggested Iowa farmers and the state’s ethanol industry are realists when it comes to the subsidy.
“Can we stand on our own two feet someday? You bet,” Couser said during a question-and-answer session at the Iowa Energy Forum. “I think we’re going to have to because I think that’s what’s coming down the pike.”
…. Iowa Agriculture Secretary Bill Northey, a Republican and a row-crop farmer from northwest Iowa, said most farmers believe it’s “logical” that the ethanol subsidy will be reduced, if not eliminated.”
In other words, the ethanol industry was already way ahead of Pawlenty.
BADA BING
May 26th, 2011
2:10 pm
cowboy….does making your own salad at the salad bar really equate to FARM WORK? Then I am a farmer!!
Bosch
May 26th, 2011
2:12 pm
Dang Jay, you ruined my fun….
Can you answer my question from earlier?
Jay
May 26th, 2011
2:13 pm
So Mark T., you no doubt also believe that Justice Thomas should recuse himself from the health-care decision, given his wife’s involvement in the effort to overturn it.
And John Birch, I didn’t imply in any way that I knew better than Roberts. I said I agreed with him on all the legal points. I did question his assertion about the impact on discrimination, but that wasn’t a legal question.
I do, however, reserve the right to disagree with him in the future!
kimmer
May 26th, 2011
2:14 pm
“In a dissent joined by Justice Douglas Ginsberg, Justice Stephen Breyer asserts that the Arizona law may increase job discrimination against legal workers of Hispanic ancestry. As he points out, employers may try to minimize chances of running afoul of the law by simply refusing to hire anybody who might be illegal. ”
This illustrates just another among many reasons why hispanic americans should be MORE outraged by the current illegal immigration problem than anybody! But as a general rule they appear to be just the opposite. WAKE UP PEOPLE!
Joe Mama
May 26th, 2011
2:15 pm
josef — “Make of that what one will, but it told me all I ever needed to know about that. Why would “Hispanic” be any different?”
My wife was a recruiting director during the dot-com era, and she encountered many, many instances of companies making it clear that they didn’t want certain types of employees. Sometimes gender was an issue. Sometimes it was race. Sometimes age made a difference. In one instance that really bothered her, it was religion that was at issue.
Employers can’t openly discriminate, but they routinely ask recruiters to screen out applicants who are, for whatever reason, not what the employer wants. And according to the letter of the law, that’s legal. It’s a lousy situation, but what’s a recruiter to do if they want the fee that comes with filling that position? Send people they *know* the client doesn’t want and risk losing the business? Or act as the prospective employer’s hatchet man and ignore the people who don’t match the unwritten list of qualifications?
Just one of the reasons my wife bailed out on being a recruiter.
jm
May 26th, 2011
2:16 pm
“and come up with a realistic way to pay for it” not possible given the demographic mountain rolling our way.
“rather than try to force their right-wing social engineering” good, I see you’ve picked up some soundbites and talking points
Jay
May 26th, 2011
2:16 pm
Bosch, the Ga. law gets phased in. I can’t recall exactly, but I believe it’s first those businesses with more than 500 employees, then those with more than 100, and finally, two or three years from now, those with more than 10.
Those with fewer than 10 are unaffected.
Thulsa Doom
May 26th, 2011
2:17 pm
Joe Mama
May 26th, 2011
2:08 pm
Doom — “Joe Mama, I’ve done back breaking work before. A little hard work never hurt anyone. But frankly I don’t think you could afford my services.”
You’ll never know until you enter the market and set your price point.
If you want vidalias picked at $66.75 per hour then I’m cool with that. Come to think of it I could probably pick lot of bags in an hour even at that rate. Assuming I could pick 10 bags an hour only which is probably really, really slow picking then the cost if I sold directly to you would be only $6.67 an hour. Not bad. Of course in the real world there’s a multitude of other costs that would figure into the cost such as fertilizer and planting equipment, pesticides, land, taxes, more taxes, taxes I haven’t fathomed yet, oops- price is right back to $40 a bag. If you can afford $40 a bag then your job is paying very well these days.
Adam
May 26th, 2011
2:18 pm
I’m skipping this one….
Bosch
May 26th, 2011
2:18 pm
Thanks Jay! Good to know.
jewcowboy
May 26th, 2011
2:19 pm
BADA BING,
“does making your own salad at the salad bar really equate to FARM WORK? ”
That is as close as I want to come to farm work. Do fields have sneeze guards?
josef nix
May 26th, 2011
2:20 pm
Farm work? I’ve chopped and picked my row of cotton and grubbed my row of sweet potatoes in the hot Mississippi sun and it was no fun…had to do it, not because we were poor, but because Mama said we’d know where our good life came from…this was back when mechanization was just coming in and those crops were still labor intensive…like many food crops still are…
Yahtzee
May 26th, 2011
2:20 pm
Jay,
Why would Justice Thomas recuse himself from the healthcare decision? He is not directly involved with what his wife is choosing to do. However, you can certainly make the case that Justice Kagan should recuse herself as she was part of the Administration and help defend the law, but she more than likely won’t.
If they both recused theirselves, the outcome would be the same regardless.
Jay
May 26th, 2011
2:21 pm
Read Mark T’s comments on the Wisconsin case, Yahtzee. Then you’ll see my point.
Bosch
May 26th, 2011
2:21 pm
And why exactly is Mrs. Justice Thomas trying to have the HC law overturned?
Adam
May 26th, 2011
2:22 pm
Pawlenty didn’t call for an abrupt end to the per gallon tax credit for ethanol. Instead, Pawlenty called for phasing it out — a concept the Iowa Renewable Fuels Association had already embraced.
Ah, I see, so not a flip flop, just a clarification. He plays this game well….
Joe Mama
May 26th, 2011
2:23 pm
Doom — “Of course in the real world there’s a multitude of other costs that would figure into the cost such as fertilizer and planting equipment, pesticides, land, taxes, more taxes, taxes I haven’t fathomed yet, oops- price is right back to $40 a bag. If you can afford $40 a bag then your job is paying very well these days.”
I just said I’d pay extra if you picked and delivered them, cowboy. I don’t have a lot of faith in your agricultural acumen beyond that. You let me and the farmer work out the price I’m going to pay, and we’ll let you pick, bag and deliver, k?
jm
May 26th, 2011
2:23 pm
Neutron Jack should run, if he weren’t too old.
jewcowboy
May 26th, 2011
2:23 pm
Yahtzee,
“Why would Justice Thomas recuse himself from the healthcare decision?”
Because he uses health care and therefore cannot possible be impartial. Or at least that is the line of logic used by the right wingers who want the Prop 8 ruling overturned because Judge Walker didn’t recuse himself due to him actually having a sexual preference.
BADA BING
May 26th, 2011
2:24 pm
cowboy….if they had sneeze guards how would they dust the crops? Besides, disgusting things help the crops grow, do you know what is in fertilizer?
hsn
May 26th, 2011
2:25 pm
Jay,
Was E-Verify as passed by the Congress of the United States, supposed to be voluntary or mandatory? If it was voluntary, then it will be wrong to “force” businesses to use it!
The most disturbing part of this “ruling” is that people of specific ancestry may NOT EVEN be considered for hire because employers wouldn’t want to deal with the headaches and possible discrimination lawsuits thay could face. This is plainly wrong !!!
Remember, it is the same cons in the court who ruled to give companies unlimited powers to buy elections at any cost they can afford. Unbelievable!
Ginsberg and Breyer have it right !!! It is about civil liberties !!
Joe Mama
May 26th, 2011
2:26 pm
BADA BING — “do you know what is in fertilizer?”
If you’re talking about what I think you’re talking about, there’s not much of that in US-produced fertilizer at all. But you *can* find it in some extenders for livestock feed.
jewcowboy
May 26th, 2011
2:26 pm
jm,
“not possible given the demographic mountain rolling our way.”
Of course it is…
“good, I see you’ve picked up some soundbites and talking points”
I do like to co-opt the right wing echo chamber’s inane ramblings…
Thulsa Doom
May 26th, 2011
2:28 pm
josef nix
May 26th, 2011
2:20 pm
Farm work? I’ve chopped and picked my row of cotton and grubbed my row of sweet potatoes in the hot Mississippi sun and it was no fun…- josef nix
My sister in law’s mother and her sisters all picked cotton sharecropping in the cotton fields wayyy back. Her mother eventually died of emphysema that she said developed from the minute cotton fibers that would gather in her lungs and I think all 3 of her sisters also developed emphysema. Don’t know for sure if they were right in ascertaining that cotton picking was the cause but if so I would hate to think of all the millions of slaves and sharecroppers before them that also picked cotton.
USMC
May 26th, 2011
2:28 pm
“I do like to co-opt the right wing echo chamber’s inane ramblings…”
You sound more like an Ed Schultz or Keith Olbermann Droid, though.
Hillbilly D
May 26th, 2011
2:28 pm
but because Mama said we’d know where our good life came from…
I think everybody should try having a garden, if only for a year. People would learn just how hard it can be to feed yourself and how many things are beyond your control.
josef nix
May 26th, 2011
2:29 pm
JOE
So true. At the time I did that paper, the AJC was (I don’t know if they still are or not) running ads that specifically stated “no Southern accents.” (No Jews, Irish or Dogs need apply). I was offered a job around the same time with a salary and benefits package not to be sneezed at. The job? To teach the firm’s native terrain employees how to “get rid of their Southern accents.” Why me? Well, I already was doing their translations and interpreting for conferences and, well, I did use the languages of the participants and the language of the Americans was Yankee English…They simply couldn’t believe I would turn down the offer and refuse to renew my contracts with them…
AmVet
May 26th, 2011
2:29 pm
Doom, you wouldn’t last a day in those fields. Much less a week. Or month. Or…
At this point in my life, neither would I. But at least, I don’t feign otherwise…
jewcowboy
May 26th, 2011
2:29 pm
BADA BING,
“if they had sneeze guards how would they dust the crops?”
Dusting, huh? Isn’t that what the domestics are supposed to do…oh wait, then we get back to having to hire illegals.
“do you know what is in fertilizer?”
Lollipops and glitter?
jewcowboy
May 26th, 2011
2:31 pm
USMC,
“You sound more like an Ed Schultz or Keith Olbermann Droid, though”
Dang! I was going for more of either an ironic Limbaugh or slightly less unhinged Beck.
BADA BING
May 26th, 2011
2:31 pm
COWBOY…..lollipops, glitter, and powered unicorn horn.
Dave R.
May 26th, 2011
2:33 pm
“How about for them to face reality and see that the American people like Medicare, and come up with a realistic way to pay for it rather than try to force their right-wing social engineering down the gullets of the people at the behest of their insurance industry backers?”
jewcowboy, the American people like puppies, but we don’t give everyone who wants one a puppy. The American people like a lot of things, but they don’t want to pay for them; they want someone else to pay for them.
That is an unsustainable model.
Yahtzee
May 26th, 2011
2:33 pm
jewcowboy,
“Because he uses health care and therefore cannot possible be impartial.”…so wouldn’t every justice have to recuse theirselves since all of them use healthcare?
Im just wondering why Justice Thomas would have to recuse himself based on the premise that his wife is involved in a lobbying effort to repeal the healthcare law. I could see why if his wife had a financial stake in the outcome of the law, but I see no evidence of that. She gets paid to lobby for or against a bill or issue, but there is no financial gain from the outcome of whether the law is constitutional or not.
Bosch
May 26th, 2011
2:33 pm
” I could see why if his wife had a financial stake in the outcome of the law”
Yahtzee, so….you are arguing that the wife has no financial stake in this, but acknowledges that he gets paid for her lobbying efforts — really?
Dave R.,
The American people DO pay for Medicare — and they want to keep doing so.
Doggone/GA
May 26th, 2011
2:33 pm
“Wisconsin judge strikes down collective bargaining restrictions”
“(CNN) — A Wisconsin judge struck down that state’s controversial new collective bargaining law Thursday, ruling that GOP legislators failed to provide sufficient public notice before passing the measure this year”
http://www.cnn.com/2011/POLITICS/05/26/wisconsin.collective.bargaining/index.html?hpt=T2
getalife
May 26th, 2011
2:33 pm
Rand Paul stands up for freedom and is called a terrorist.
Stand up tea party.
Jack
May 26th, 2011
2:34 pm
Try using E-Verify. Then post an opinion.
Dave R.
May 26th, 2011
2:34 pm
For all the parrots who are posting about the Wis. judge striking down the anti-union law, this is just a final ruling following the stay put in place months ago. No change, no difference, still on the WAY it was passed in violation of open meetings, not on the Constitutionality of it.
Nothing to see here. No victory. Move on.
Thulsa Doom
May 26th, 2011
2:36 pm
I just said I’d pay extra if you picked and delivered them, cowboy. I don’t have a lot of faith in your agricultural acumen beyond that. You let me and the farmer work out the price I’m going to pay, and we’ll let you pick, bag and deliver, k?
Joe mama,
Cool. I’m in! $67 an hour plus my expenses in gas/ minimum 8 hour day. Ya gotta help out with gas- it aint cheap under Obama ya understand. I’ll work a Saturday or 2 to make sure you have plenty of onions. When do I start?
Kamchak
May 26th, 2011
2:36 pm
I think everybody should try having a garden, if only for a year. People would learn just how hard it can be to feed yourself and how many things are beyond your control.
Just put in two rows of beans and three rows of crowder peas. I’m (not so) patiently waiting for some much needed rain up here in this small hamlet in the N.C. Mtns.
Dave R.
May 26th, 2011
2:36 pm
“Dave R.,
The American people DO pay for Medicare — and they want to keep doing so.”
And the American people get far more in benefits than they pay in. The model is unsustainable. Wordsmithing your reply to make a cheap point doesn’t change that fact, Bosch.
Joe Mama
May 26th, 2011
2:37 pm
Hillbilly D — “I think everybody should try having a garden, if only for a year. People would learn just how hard it can be to feed yourself and how many things are beyond your control.”
Agreed. And no cheating and putting in just one crop, like tomatoes or potatoes. Put in four or five different things that have to be nurtured in different ways and which are harvested at different times of the year.
dizzynerve51
May 26th, 2011
2:38 pm
I paid $32.67 for a XBOX 360 and my mom got a 17 inch Toshiba laptop for $94.83 being delivered to our house tomorrow by FedEX. I will never again pay expensive retail prices at stores. I even sold a 46 inch HDTV to my boss for $650 and it only cost me $52.78 to get. Here is the website we using to get all this stuff, http://BidsWork.com
jm
May 26th, 2011
2:38 pm
Jay. Chew on this:
Let’s take a step back for a moment from all the data. Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac balance sheets were set up to absorb annual delinquency rates of around 2% on their guaranteed and owned portfolios (alternatively described as a 1% loss rate, assuming 50% salvage values on default)2. If they stuck to traditionally conforming loans, there’s a chance they could have avoided conservatorship, since their prime loan delinquency rates are 2.0%-2.5%. But once they got involved in riskier loans, they were engaging in activity that involves higher losses; to avoid this outcome, one must contravene the laws of underwriting and risk that go back hundreds of years. What drove Fannie Mae to go down this road? A combination of profit motive and HUD’s affordable housing goals; that part is unmistakable. The October 2000 HUD quote we published last time is a chilling anticipation of how HUD policies would drive both GSEs and the private sector into much riskier lending.
In 2002, Nobel Laureate Joseph Stiglitz and future OMB Director Peter Orszag sided with the Department of Housing and Urban Development and the majority in Congress who supported the GSEs, and their 0.45% capital standards on guarantees:
“The probability of a shock as severe as embodied in the risk-based capital standard is substantially less than one in 500,000 – and may be smaller than one in three million. Given the low probability of the stress test shock occurring, and assuming that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac hold sufficient capital to withstand that shock, the exposure of the government to the risk that the GSEs will become insolvent appears quite low…”3
Stiglitz and Orszag wrote that the expected cost to the government of guaranteeing $1 trillion of mortgages was $2 million. This may be the largest cost mis-estimation ever as it relates to unfunded guarantees; the Federal Housing Finance Agency estimates that GSEs will cost taxpayers $250-$300 billion. The Stiglitz paper, full of complex equations and formulas, was written after HUD has raised GSE affordable lending targets to 50% of all of their loans, so there was plenty
of evidence that the GSE mandate was rapidly changing. I guess the private sector wasn’t the only place where notions of leverage and risk were completely botched.
-let me translate for those a little less adept at reading (libs): government sucks at its job
Joe Mama
May 26th, 2011
2:38 pm
Doom — “Cool. I’m in! $67 an hour plus my expenses in gas/ minimum 8 hour day. Ya gotta help out with gas- it aint cheap under Obama ya understand. I’ll work a Saturday or 2 to make sure you have plenty of onions. When do I start?”
Pay attention, Doom. *I’ll* work out with the farmer what I’m going to pay. YOU harvest, bag and deliver.
It’s so hard to find good employees these days.
josef nix
May 26th, 2011
2:38 pm
Thulsa
It was not just slaves and sharecroppers picking cotton, mind you. Unmentionable tells the story of one of his patients who, for reasons of confidentiality I cannot name, but just say she was the wife of one of the richest bidnessmen in Georgia. He was examining her multi-carated hands and remarked, “I bet you’ve never picked cotton?” (Theirs was a relationship that permitted such a comment) and she informed him, “well, you’d lose that bet.”
But, like I say a lot, the PC on picking cotton is, well, funny to those of us who grew up in a cotton patch!
jewcowboy
May 26th, 2011
2:39 pm
josef nix,
“no Southern accents.”
Now let’s be clear…there are “Southern” accents and then there are “Southern” accents. The latter sometimes being almost incomprehensible despite the level of education. Not all southern accents evoke images of gentility…some invoke images of, well, something rather more like this: http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lkwk0oDyGC1qbyxwq.jpg
jewcowboy
May 26th, 2011
2:40 pm
Yahtzee,
“She gets paid to lobby for or against a bill or issue,”
Um..he lives with someone who gets paid to lobby for something before him in the court. Her job is to influence the outcome. And the person she is sleeping with can make that happen…
josef nix
May 26th, 2011
2:40 pm
jewcowboy
And why not “no Brooklyn accents?” Not New England accents? No Midwestern accents? No, this is steeped in prejudice and bigotry. I have yet to run into an English language accent I cannot understand with just the slightest shift of decoding…
And that “image” you posted, yes, and that is my point exactly…steeped in prejudice and bigotry…
Bosch
May 26th, 2011
2:41 pm
jm,
Well, at least we don’t plagarize.
Thulsa Doom
May 26th, 2011
2:41 pm
AmVet
May 26th, 2011
2:29 pm
Doom, you wouldn’t last a day in those fields. Much less a week. Or month. Or…
At this point in my life, neither would I. But at least, I don’t feign otherwise…
AmVet,
How do you know that? You don’t know me and you haven’t seen me. And you don’t know some of the hard work I’ve done in my life. And what you don’t know is that the only thing I dislike about my job is that I work inside. I would love to work outside except there’s just not many outside type jobs that pay the kind of money I want.
Jay
May 26th, 2011
2:42 pm
hsn, the feds made it voluntary.
However, the law making it voluntary included 1.) a ban on states inflicting civil or criminal penalties for failing to use it and 2.) an explicit provision allowing states to use licensing powers to do so.
The language in question prohibits ““any State or local law imposing civil or criminal sanctions (other than through licensing and similar laws) upon those who employ, or recruit or refer for a fee for employment, unauthorized aliens.”
It’s that part in bold that’s at stake here.