‘Freedom-loving’ NRA dictates what doctors can say to patients
We’ve heard a lot of rhetoric the last couple of years about the importance of keeping government out of the sacred, private relationship between doctors and their patients.
It was all a bunch of bull-oney.
For instance, the Florida Legislature has now passed a bill that makes it illegal for doctors to ask patients whether they have guns in their home and whether those guns are stored correctly to keep them out of the hands of children. It’s a question that many pediatricians ask as part of their standard spiel, along with ensuring that poisons and medicines are kept out of children’s reach and that swimming pools are monitored.
As Dr. Paul Robinson, a specialist in adolescent medicine, testified in vain to a Florida Senate committee:
“What if I have an adolescent who’s been bullied, who’s not suicidal? I don’t think, under the current bill, I’m entitled to ask him if there’s a gun in the home, or if he’s carried a gun to school, or if he’s thinking of harming someone else with a gun.”
Asking such questions would be against the law.
If you happen to believe that a doctor should not ask such questions, fine. You have the right to tell the physician that it’s none of his or her business. You have the right to change doctors. But you cannot logically argue that it is government’s place to dictate what can and cannot be said between patient and doctor. The fact that such gross intrusions into rights of privacy and free speech come from the allegedly small-government, pro-liberty right isn’t at all surprising.
And then there’s Texas. This week, Gov. Rick Perry signed a bill into law that requires women seeking an abortion to first undergo a sonogram. The attending physician is required by law to “describe the fetus, noting the size and condition of limbs and organs.” In addition, the patient must then wait 24 hours after the sonogram is performed before undergoing the abortion. As one person noted, the bill does everything but require the woman to give the fetus a name and schedule its funeral.
“Indeed, this bill is designed to shame women, as if we are daft creatures unable to make personal, private medical decisions without the paternalistic oversight of legislators,” the head of a Texas pro-choice group noted.
Again, these are allegedly small-government conservatives, conservatives dedicated to keeping government out of our private affairs, especially in relationships such as those between a doctor and patient, dictating what must be said and what must not be said in the privacy of a doctor’s office.
– Jay Bookman
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617 comments Add your comment
Jay's Brain and Ford owner
May 26th, 2011
7:02 pm
Just a reminder, read this……..
Obama replied, “John, nobody is denying that $18 billion is important. And, absolutely, we need earmark reform . And when I’m president, I will go line by line to make sure that we are not spending money unwisely.”
From the 2008 debate at the University of Mississippi.
Of course jaybo’s idol hasn’t done one darn thing, not lifted a finger or given any true thought to
trying to save the taxpayers of this country a single penny.
So lets not worry about the NRA jaybo.
This is your brain telling you to get to the facts that matter.
I know it is hard but try.
Good little liberal
May 26th, 2011
7:04 pm
Doggone/GA
Separate but equal is not working out? You better talk to the Democrats that are running most of Atlanta.
Fred
May 26th, 2011
7:06 pm
AmVet
May 26th, 2011
6:51 pm
But part of the tree is laying across the street. I’m sure DeKalb County is swamped with other things, but they’ll get here.
They rock and have always been very responsive and efficient. (Blows that image for some of you, huh?)
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
It did for me when I moved to Dekalb 8 or 9 years ago. I came from GWY-Nette where we had a CHOICE for garbage pick-up. I went through every private company there and they all sucked and cost me more than what I pay in Dekalb for the County guys to do it. And they rock (just like you say). I have NEVER had a complaint about one of them. I tip them every Christmas lol. Same with the rest of the County workers. They get it done baby. I was stunned, amazed, and very pleased.
Dekalb County Public Works is AWESOME BABY!!!!!!
Good little liberal
May 26th, 2011
7:06 pm
Jay’s Brain and Ford owner
Surely you are not expecting the libs on this board to comment on yet another lie told by the clown in the White House. Once they respond to one, they would need to respond to the other thousands.
Democrats have much, much lower standards for their leaders than we do.
All a Democrats has to be is not a Republican.
Fred
May 26th, 2011
7:07 pm
Jonix: I don’t know. What’s the answer? In my little world, the PERFECT wedding is a Baptist ceremony and a Polish Catholic reception. A Baptist ceremony lasts about 5 minutes and a Polish Catholic reception is a party that could go on for DAYS lol.
Doggone/GA
May 26th, 2011
7:08 pm
“but if someone murders a pregnant women, they are charged with TWO counts of murder. one for the woman and one for the fetus. How does that work? ”
It’s a concession to the emotions of the woman. It is presumed that she wants to carry that pregnancy to term and raise and love the resulting child. What it REALLY is, is that she has been deprived of something she values – but it’s not empathetic to call her foetus merely “something of value”, so we “value” it at HER attachment to it as her potential child.
BADA BING
May 26th, 2011
7:09 pm
WORDS have meanings. Some have many, but when used in context it makes sense. Are they important when you go in to have surgery. Remove spleen, liver, whatever. Do you want them to get it right, I mean left, I am confused. Did you know that the French have a different word for everything? It’s all Greek to me.
Hillbilly D
May 26th, 2011
7:10 pm
Our numbers tell us an awful lot of people read this blog every day but never post here. They may be more open-minded about things than the folks who respond in knee-jerk fashion.
Or they must shake their heads ’cause they think we’re a bunch of idiots.
josef nix
May 26th, 2011
7:11 pm
Doggone
EOI duties here, but if is not a life, then it cannot be murder…again, words have meaning…and I’m not getting into the argument here, just making the point that the conflict of definition is there…
Good little liberal
May 26th, 2011
7:11 pm
Doggone/GA
Potential child. LOL!!
Is that what does it for you? Is that what makes it OK to kill it?
The lengths you guys are willing to go is just plain creepy.
Fred
May 26th, 2011
7:12 pm
LOl Hillbilly D. Are you the poster that was formerly Deluxe? I so, have you been downgraded?
Hillbilly D
May 26th, 2011
7:12 pm
Fred
I downgraded myself, so as not to sound uppity. I still have the same hair-brained notions, though, regardless of my name.
Fred
May 26th, 2011
7:12 pm
“EOI duties here, but if is not a life, then it cannot be murder…again, words have meaning…and I’m not getting into the argument here, just making the point that the conflict of definition is there…”
Ah HA. My point exactly Josef. I’m not trying to do an argument either, just that the duplicity of it struck me. I first thought of it about 20 years ago. I’ve always been amazed that it hasn’t been a case brought by either a defense attorney defending a murder defendent or an anti-abortionist lawyer trying to strike down Roe-V-Wade.
I mean if a dumb redneck carpenter can think of it SURELY some slick greasy lawyer has………
Doggone/GA
May 26th, 2011
7:13 pm
“but if is not a life, then it cannot be murder”
but it IS a life. What it is NOT is a person. But as I said, the legalities are a concession to the woman. Legally the killer ought to be charged with whatever the equivilent would be of “destroying valuable property” – but, again, that’s not a very empathetic way of phrasing it.
Fred
May 26th, 2011
7:14 pm
Why is empathy needed Doggone? The mother is DEAD. We don’t need to worry about her feelings anymore………. and how do they know she wasn’t going out the next day to have an abortion?
Like I said, the whole thing don’t make much sense to me…….
Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)
May 26th, 2011
7:14 pm
Well, I’m real sorry to see a blog about abortion and guns go downhill into gay marriage and the clipping of a boy’s Private Parts. Can’t we all just get along and pretend these things don’t exist, the way we act when a crazy aunt is kept in the attic and everybody pretends she don’t exist? I mean, there’s some things it’s kinda painful to talk about. In the good old days the gays never let on they were gay, much less talk about setting up housekeeping. And nobody talked about being clipped or not. I say let’s go back to the old days. It’s what being Conservative is all about.
Good little liberal
May 26th, 2011
7:16 pm
josef nix
I understand why we need abortions. Once our society becomes more secular, the excess population has to be thinned. We can’t afford to support the millions of unwanted children.
It’s the devaluation of the lives of those children in an attempt to make everyone think it is a matter of the right of the mother that I can’t agree with.
AmVet
May 26th, 2011
7:16 pm
GLL, your standards are just too high for me! But I’ll play along for a tad more…
“Unborn child”.
Now you’re getting somewhere! Kudos!!
http://encyclopedia2.thefreedictionary.com/Unborn+Child
http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Unborn+Child
BADA BING
May 26th, 2011
7:16 pm
So everything a Dr. asks you is fair game? If he asks a woman if sex is painful during her exam, that is OK . If he asks her if she would like to go out and have drinks while she is on the table, that is not OK. It is a matter of degrees. Why not skip the gun question and just ask the patient if their household is free of dangerous items? Wouldn’t that be enough?
Doggone/GA
May 26th, 2011
7:17 pm
“Is that what does it for you?”
Nope, that is what is biologically. A foetus does not become a “child”, does not become a “person” until it takes it’s first breath of air, because at that point – whether it eventually lives or dies – it is irrevocably separeted from the woman.
josef nix
May 26th, 2011
7:18 pm
FRED
(hold on to your anti-French knee for a minute here!)
Under English law a woman was considered property of a man…thus the father (or male guardian) “gave her away.” Under Roman law this was not the case, she being an individual in her own rights. This was significant in matters of a woman’s right to own and dispose of properties in her own name. The first challenges to this “law of courverature” came when Louisiana was entered into the union and French-Roman law in civil matters such as property ownership was kept in order to convince the established population put. In 1834 Mississippi became the first jurisdiction operating under British Common Law to establish the woman’s right to own and dispose of property under her own name separate of a male (Fisher v Allen), ruling that Chickasaw law superseded English law and in 1839 it was included in the state’s constitution…
Doggone/GA
May 26th, 2011
7:19 pm
“Why is empathy needed Doggone? The mother is DEAD. We don’t need to worry about her feelings anymore………. and how do they know she wasn’t going out the next day to have an abortion?”
I *did* say it was an assumption. And it doesn’t matter if she is dead, the assumption is that she valued her pregnancy, and that – by projection – so did her spouse/partner and her family.
Fred
May 26th, 2011
7:20 pm
Josef: That doesn’t make sense. There were Catholics LONG before there were French and even longer before there was a Louisiana.
And there were Jews long before there was a Rome………..
Brosephus
May 26th, 2011
7:21 pm
Or they must shake their heads ’cause they think we’re a bunch of idiots.
I’d vote yay on that line…..
Dave R.
May 26th, 2011
7:21 pm
“Or they must shake their heads ’cause they think we’re a bunch of idiots.”
TESTIFY!
Good little liberal
May 26th, 2011
7:22 pm
AmVet
Your communication skills are as usual: lacking, but I presume that you are trying to make the point that the term fetus applies to several species and that makes it OK to kill an unborn child.
Is that what you are trying to illustrate?
BADA BING
May 26th, 2011
7:22 pm
Chickasaw Law? josef, you are just making stuff up now.
AmVet
May 26th, 2011
7:23 pm
Hillbilly D,
Yep, no longer uppity!
Has more of that Snoop Dog feel to it now!
Fo shizzle ma nizzle!
Good little liberal
May 26th, 2011
7:23 pm
josef nix
Property?
Creepy.
Fred
May 26th, 2011
7:24 pm
Hillbilly “D”: Well I don’t like is son. I saw your answer the other day when someone axed you about it and I think your handle is right up there with Brocephus.
You’ll always be Deluxe to me.
(Who the hell is Brocephus anyways? That change happened while I was absent apparently)
Jay
May 26th, 2011
7:25 pm
GLL, should a woman who seeks an abortion be charged with murder?
Doggone/GA
May 26th, 2011
7:26 pm
” that makes it OK to kill an unborn child”
but it isn’t Ok to kill an unborn child. A foetus that is developmentally capable of surviving outside the womb is an unborn child. Terminating that pregnancy is not an abortion, it is an induced delivery and killing the baby after it is born is murder.
Recon (2nd.and 3rd.)
May 26th, 2011
7:26 pm
Hillbilly, regardless of what handle you choose to go by, you’re still the best of this blog. Keep up the good work.
Fred
May 26th, 2011
7:26 pm
Just damn. I can’t handle the randomly inserted posts anymore. I’m just too stupid. Do I scroll the WHOLE page? Go back one page or two to see that I haven’t missed an answer to a question……….
I dunno. Makes my head spin…….
Thulsa Doom
May 26th, 2011
7:28 pm
Jay,
What’s going on? I sent you a slew several studies showing 20% waste, fraud, and abuse in Medicare along with links and you put it all under moderation?
Kamchak
May 26th, 2011
7:28 pm
Democrats have much, much lower standards for their leaders than we do.
The smoking gun is the mushroom cloud.
AmVet
May 26th, 2011
7:29 pm
“…and that makes it OK to kill an unborn child.”
Little, your stunning lack of respect for explicit meanings is sad.
But it completely pales in comparison to your devastating lack of critical thinking skills. The way which you, not merely make up definitions, but leap to such illogical heights and “deduce” such completely contrived conclusions based on nothing but your imaginings is absolutely awe-inspiring.
You sir, are materiel for a George Carlin skit…
Jay
May 26th, 2011
7:31 pm
Thulsa, I’m checking out for dinner, but the spam blocker automatically kicks out any post with three or more links.
Fred
May 26th, 2011
7:31 pm
Thulsa: Jay doesn’t put things under moderation. It’s an auto feature. There is a limit on how many links you can have on one post. I think it’s three but someone can correct me if I’m wrong. I found THAT out the hard way too. It’s supposed to stop spam………
Recon (2nd.and 3rd.)
May 26th, 2011
7:32 pm
“GLL, should a woman who seeks an abortion be charged with murder?”
Well of course not because it’s not against the law but a responsible jurisdiction will ensure that all parties are made fully aware of the procedure specifics and it’s final result. It appears that Texas understands that obligation to society.
Fred
May 26th, 2011
7:33 pm
Jeez, now I sound like Jay’s mouthpiece………
Thulsa Doom
May 26th, 2011
7:33 pm
And here I thought I was being censored with all my studies. I’ll just cut it in half and eliminate some of the studies and try reposting.
josef nix
May 26th, 2011
7:34 pm
FRED
The property-wife goes back to Anglo-Saxon law and was left in place following the Normand conquest along with a lot of other features…the conflict between Roman (French) law and English law first became an issue in matters of women’s status after 1763 and the transfer of the French areas north of the 30 N line…English law superseded and many women lost their property, enough that when Louisiana was incorporated after 1803 with a much larger number of women property owners, the matter had to be addressed. The same thing happened in Texas in the Republic…the women’s rights under Roman law were kept intact while the Constitution and civil law were of the Anglo-American mold…
It’s just that MOST Catholic countries operated under Roman law and the Catholic rituals developed along those lines in those countries…
As for Jews, the woman’s rights to own property separate of men has been there all along and she is not considered property herself under Jewish law, therefore Jewish ritual. That one was a real sticky wicket in Carolina early on…the first cases coming before the civil courts as early as 1701…
Doggone/GA
May 26th, 2011
7:36 pm
“we are killing right at a million fellow humans a year”
No, we are not. It not “us” who made a human foetus dependent on the woman, it was God (or Mother Nature, if you prefer) After all, there ARE other ways it could have been handled. Platypus, for example, are mammals, just as are humans, but THEIR young are not at all dependent on the females body. They are “born” and develop in eggs, external to her body.
Good little liberal
May 26th, 2011
7:36 pm
Jay
Of course not. We have a secular society. Without abortions, we couldn’t maintain our society and we are forced to have to thin the herd.
My problem is that by renaming fellow citizens that we have to kill, that this, at least to some people, makes it ok to kill those people. To me, that’s like by Jeffery Dahmer calling a neighbor his afternoon snack, it makes it ok for him to kill him and eat him.
Dehumanizing fellow humans has been done since the beginning of time for exactly the reason that so many here want to do it. It’s not so bad to kill a fetus. It’s not so bad to kill a woman’s property.
In our country alone, we are killing right at a million fellow humans a year. I’m a strong believer in Karma. That’s got to be some stinking Karma in the grand scope of it all.
My goal, if I were king, would be to reinsert a respect for all human life into our society and with that respect, a goal of drastically reducing the number of abortions performed in this country, but when I see so many here, changing definitions in order to get rid of that guilt and of course get rid of that respect for human life, I see that my goal is already lost.
Hillbilly D
May 26th, 2011
7:37 pm
Up here in the Hills, you can go to the local courthouse and see where women bought and sold land in their own name, in the 1830’s and 1840’s. Didn’t happen a lot but it did happen. I’m not sure what time frame that would have begun.
Fred
May 26th, 2011
7:39 pm
Thulsa: Just put the links in more than one post.
Josef: Thanks for the history lesson. It made me think of ONE thing however. I realized I’ve never been to a Jewish wedding. I’ve been to bat-mitzvahs, bar mitzvahs, and bris’s (brisi?) but never a wedding……….
Good little liberal
May 26th, 2011
7:39 pm
AmVet
If you ever think that you have gained the intelligence to have a logical debate with me and can advance past your adolescent attempts at insults, let me know. Until then, know that I view you as a unintelligent clown and nothing more.
josef nix
May 26th, 2011
7:39 pm
GLL
Yes, the woman was property of the man…lock, stock and barrel, and so was any property to which she might have claim…thus, she could not dispose of said properties without a man’s consent…
Citizen
May 26th, 2011
7:40 pm
My goal, if I were king, would be to reinsert a respect for all human life into our society and with that respect, a goal of drastically reducing the number of abortions performed in this country, but when I see so many here, changing definitions in order to get rid of that guilt and of course get rid of that respect for human life, I see that my goal is already lost.
GLL, how about we take up a collection and fund your move to another country that has no respect for women’s rights and has laws to enforce your religious beliefs?
Brosephus
May 26th, 2011
7:40 pm
HD
I never thought the Deluxe was uppity. I thought it added a bit of class to a name that people usually and wrongly consider just a bit higher than ant testicles on the class scale. If it were me, I’d do it as Hill-Billy Dee, and throw a 6-pack of Colt 45 in there somewhere.
Thulsa Doom
May 26th, 2011
7:41 pm
Jay,
Lost my connection for awhile in the storm. Okedoke.
There is a study below that shows 20% that I’ve cited as well as others. Numerous studies detailing vast amounts of fraud, waste, and abuse. Study below details over 70 billion in improper payments made by Medicare. Medicaid. That’s just improper payments. It doesn’t even include other outright fraud, and abuse. And 70 billion for improper payments alone in a 400 billion dollar system equates automatically to 17% alone without going into other elements of waste, fraud, and abuse.
For fun you should also google 60 minutes and Steve Kroft on all the bogus stores set up in South Florida ripping off Medicare by billing for wheelchairs and other items that never existed. I don’t remember that kind of wholesale rip off of private health care companies. Can you point out massive fraud like that perpetuated on private health plans like what all these scam companies in south florida were doing to Medicare? No because it doesn’t happen.
On a personal note I have a good friend who is the systems analist as I like to call him for the company that administers the software for bc/bs of Alabama. He’s an expert and had told me that this kind of fraud that takes place in s. florida can’t happen to private plans due to their software triggers and algorythms of which he said Medicare does not have these same triggers for fraud detection.
Conclusion
The federal government estimates that improper payments under Medicare and Medicaid totaled $70.4 billion in 2010. Approximately $34.3 billion in payments come from traditional Medicare (10.5% improper payment rate); another $22.5 billion in payments come from Medicaid (9.4% improper payment rate); and $13.6 billion (14.1% improper payment rate) from Medicare Advantage.[7] http://www.medicareadvocacy.org/2011/05/combating-fraud-waste-and-abuse-in-health-care/
Medicare Fraud Rampant, Keynoter Says
HDM Breaking News, March 4, 2010
Up to 20 percent of Medicare expenditures are going to fraudulent claims, the keynote presenter on the final day of HIMSS 2010 said.
Like what you see? Click here to sign up for Health Data Management’s daily newsletter to get the latest news in health care I.T.
Independent fraud investigator Harry Markopolos said the government is doing a poor job of monitoring the money it spends on healthcare. Interviewed by CNN medical correspondent Sanjay Gupta, M.D., Markopolos noted that the fraudulent practices run the gamut from billing on behalf of dead patients or dead physicians to upcoding claims, and asking for more than is deserved. “Medicare fraud is pervasive,” Markopolos said. “Wall Street is second fiddle to the health care industry.” http://www.healthdatamanagement.com/news/medicare_fraud_claims_ehr-39907-1.html
This is another 20% article from that bastion of liberal news NPR.
In 1997, Congress responded with more than $100 million to combat health-care fraud — money that pays for 400 FBI agents, including those on the South Florida strike force.
But Medicare still winds up spending just 3/100 of 1 percent to ensure the integrity of the program.
“Why is this operation not 50 or 100 times the size,” Sparrow asks. “Why wouldn’t we spend 1 percent of the Medicare budget on program integrity? Then we might get serious about controlling a problem that might be 15 percent or 20 percent of the budget.”
If fraud and abuse account for 20 percent of the current Medicare budget, that would amount to more than $70 billion. I had to leave out this link.
Brosephus
May 26th, 2011
7:41 pm
Fred
I’m the poster formerly and currently known as Southern Comfort. Picked up a second name that sounded too cool to pass up.
Good little liberal
May 26th, 2011
7:43 pm
josef nix
I’d like to think that we have moved past that, don’t you? If you would, read my post to JAy and let me know what you think. Try to have an open mind.
Good little liberal
May 26th, 2011
7:45 pm
Citizen
So you think that because I think we shouldn’t have as many abortions, that I should be deported.
How about if I just double down and we just kill all babies. Can I stay?
Fred
May 26th, 2011
7:47 pm
“My goal, if I were king, would be to reinsert a respect for all human life into our society and with that respect, a goal of drastically reducing the number of abortions performed in this country, but when I see so many here, changing definitions in order to get rid of that guilt and of course get rid of that respect for human life, I see that my goal is already lost.”
Yes GLL, unfortunately it IS lost. As is your goal for this to be a Christian Nation or “one Nation Under God.”
Jesus said, “Give unto Caesar that which is Caesar.” He never said he was here to create a Nation. He wasn’t and he isn’t. You will NEVER convince people the “morality’ of your position on abortion anymore than they will convince you.
Before you go blasting me, I hope you will scroll up (if needed) and read my posts. I have NOT said what I think about abortion. And I won’t. My views won’t change a mind or a soul. Our citizens have spoken and it is what it is, nothing you say or do will change that.
AmVet
May 26th, 2011
7:47 pm
Rightee-o little,
I am heart broken, but will buck up and somehow survive this ignominy.
And will henceforth defer to you, oh Master Debater…
Brosephus
May 26th, 2011
7:47 pm
Gll: My goal, if I were king, would be to reinsert a respect for all human life into our society and with that respect, a goal of drastically reducing the number of abortions performed in this country, but when I see so many here, changing definitions in order to get rid of that guilt and of course get rid of that respect for human life, I see that my goal is already lost.
One question for you, suppose you issue that edict and the number of abortions are drastically reduced… Who’s going to help take care of those children? With high unemployment/underemployment, there are many who can not afford to take care of children. We wouldn’t be able to use adoption as a viable means, because if that were the case, we wouldn’t have thousands of children in foster homes. They would all be with their adoptive families now.
I’m not trying to come down on your idea, as personally, I’m not a fan of abortions. However, I don’t think I have the right to tell some woman in Wyoming what she can or can not do with her body. I don’t think the government has a right to interject itself into someone’s personal life choices either, unless it’s a matter of life or death and nobody else can make that decision for the person.
Mighy Righty
May 26th, 2011
7:48 pm
On this Florida gun thing, are doctors now allowed to ask Muslims if they have guns at home?
Hillbilly D
May 26th, 2011
7:48 pm
throw a 6-pack of Colt 45 in there somewhere.
Brocephus, you may be too young but back in the day, some folks used to call that “Bull Beer”.
Doggone/GA
May 26th, 2011
7:48 pm
“So you think that because I think we shouldn’t have as many abortions”
And why would you assume that we have a problem with that sentiment? I don’t know ANYONE who wouldn’t like to see fewer abortions.
Fred
May 26th, 2011
7:50 pm
LOL Brocephus. I THOUGHT that was you (SoCo). I saw where you said someone suggested it (you were posting as Brocephus). I should’a gone with my gut lol.
Yet, it fit’s. Just as Hillbilly Deluxe does.
Good little liberal
May 26th, 2011
7:51 pm
Fred
My problem is the devaluing of human life. If that has become a forbidden stance to take, we are in deep do-do.
I said nothing about Christianity nor about changing laws. Perhaps reading what I actually said would inspire some intelligent debate instead of these knee jerk responses. Try reading it again and actually THINKING about what I am saying instead of looking to the pat response to anything not approved by the cool kids in class.
Thulsa Doom
May 26th, 2011
7:52 pm
josef nix
May 26th, 2011
Thulsa
Nowhere near the end of the story. You’re the one who brought it up. And like I said, let’s keep that 6000 year old tradition of slavery,
Josef Nix,
Come on Josef. Comparing gay marriage with slavery? Not sure how many black people would agree with you on that. Especially if in exit polls in the prop 8 vote in Cali they voted decidedly against gay marriage by a margin of 60 or 70% depending on which exit poll you look at.
Kamchak
May 26th, 2011
7:52 pm
Tick…tick…tick….
AmVet
May 26th, 2011
7:53 pm
Fred sorry for the delay in acknowledging your reply about DeKalb County. (I was busy trying to hold my own with Clarence Darrow, aka Mr. High Standards!)
Glad to hear your experience with them has been good as well.
It is perplexing however.
Considering that the government never does anything right…
Doggone/GA
May 26th, 2011
7:54 pm
“My problem is the devaluing of human life”
OK, let’s assume you get the chance to pass your edict. How would you go about FORCING a woman to carry to term a pregnancy she does not want?
Brosephus
May 26th, 2011
7:54 pm
HD
I thought Schlitz was “The Bull”?
Brosephus
May 26th, 2011
7:56 pm
Fred
I figured that with the race card being played here more than Elmer Fudd stuttering, somebody’s gotta represent the “Hood”.
Good little liberal
May 26th, 2011
7:57 pm
Brosephus
You underestimate the wisdom of my crown. It’s not about having less abortions, its about making people more aware of the importance of not becoming pregnant if they do not wish to have the baby.
Morality used to do that, but in a secular society, other methods such as education and a respect for human life being taught in our schools would.
Citizen
May 26th, 2011
7:58 pm
My problem is the devaluing of human life.
No, GLL, your problem is engaging in a logical fallacy called begging the question. The term, contrary to its misusers, does not mean asking for a question. Rather, it means starting an argument from a false basis and then proceeding. Your basis is the term human life. You assume that the rest of us believe that a fetus is a human life. What Doggone and others on here have said is that a fetus is not a human life until it’s viable.
Fred
May 26th, 2011
7:59 pm
See, GLL? I KNEW you would take that as a chastisement. It wasn’t. I never gave a fat rats ass about the “cool kids in class” 35 years ago when I WAS in class and couldn’t care less about them now.
You haven’t re-invented the wheel. And as I said before, I won’t get into a stupid urination contest over abortion, nor will I express my convictions on it. It’s a done deal. Nothing you say or do on this blog will change it.
As to intelligent debate? I have YET to see an intelligent debate about abortion. It’s not possible.
Good little liberal
May 26th, 2011
8:01 pm
Doggone/GA
Great Kings do not force people to do things. They teach them the importance of birth control and perhaps even teach the disadvantages of boinking everyone that looks good to them.
I find it interesting that so many people think I would want to force women to do anything. Libs have some very dark places in their minds.
Doggone/GA
May 26th, 2011
8:01 pm
“It’s not about having less abortions, its about making people more aware of the importance of not becoming pregnant if they do not wish to have the baby”
and what will you do about rape & incest victimes? About women whose own health depends on NOT carrying a pregnancy to term? What about women whose birth control fails?
What about THEM? If you would not force them to carry their pregnancies – EVERY ONE OF THEM – then, like it or not, you DO support a woman’s right to choose. You just reserve the “right” to condemn those whose reason doesn’t jell with YOUR opinion.
josef nix
May 26th, 2011
8:02 pm
FRED
Man, you gotta do a Jewish wedding! Thass a party!
GLL
Moved beyond what? Women as property? Hopefully we have, but the same thing is at work in our socio-political evolution and “gay marriage-civil union”
Thulsa
You can be really dense sometimes, right up there with the Imam Torquemada…I was in no shape, form or fashion “comparing,” I was merely pointing out how fallacious your “fall back” on 6000 years of tradition is…
Mighy Righty
May 26th, 2011
8:03 pm
Doggone/GA
May 26th, 2011
7:36 pm
“we are killing right at a million fellow humans a year”
No, we are not. It not “us” who made a human foetus dependent on the woman, it was God (or Mother Nature, if you prefer) After all, there ARE other ways it could have been handled. Platypus, for example, are mammals, just as are humans, but THEIR young are not at all dependent on the females body. They are “born” and develop in eggs, external to her body.
Somebody will tell me if I am wrong. I am certainly not an expert on abortions, but it seems to me the purpose of an abortion is to rid ones self of the baby. If that is true, the method of birth makes no difference except throwing eggs over a cliff would be cheaper and easier. I believe God did it right. I can’t see myself looking forward to polinization.
Good little liberal
May 26th, 2011
8:04 pm
Citizen
All fetuses aren’t a human life. Only human fetuses are a human life. If you have any proof that a person only becomes human at birth, i.e. a fetus can be taken from a human mother and implanted in another species and be born as that other species, please present it.
Brosephus
May 26th, 2011
8:04 pm
It’s not about having less abortions, its about making people more aware of the importance of not becoming pregnant if they do not wish to have the baby.
How would that be accomplished when there’s a major uproar from the “moral” part of our society whenever sex-ed is talked about being taught in school? Should we expect ALL parents to teach that, or will it be mandated for parents to do so? I won’t argue that education in the “causes” of baby creation would possibly be a great way to lower the number of abortions. The $64,000 question would be how to implement that education.
For me, I came from two large families. Both sides of my family could fill a small stadium at a family reunion. I knew quite early how babies came about, and I made sure that I didn’t have any lil’ brohams running around. Out of 32 kids in my generation on my mom’s side, I was #29 in having their first child, at the age of 35. I won’t depend on the school system to teach my child everything, as much of what she’ll learn about life will come from within the 4 walls of my home. I just don’t think all parents share that same mindset.
josef nix
May 26th, 2011
8:04 pm
THULSA
Relative to your post to Jay…I don’t have a lot to say on this health care hooplah…I’m not going to get what I want in this lifetime, so I don’t even go there…
Fred
May 26th, 2011
8:04 pm
Amvet: Gov’t does very little right, but they screw up sometimes and get the job done.
GLL: I agree with you about the devaluation of human life in our society. It’s appalling.
Good little liberal
May 26th, 2011
8:05 pm
Fred
REad
what
I
said.
I never said that abortions should be outlawed.
Did I?
READING is Fundamental.
Fred
May 26th, 2011
8:06 pm
Well Jonix, when you and Unmentionable finally tie the knot, send us an invite.
Fred
May 26th, 2011
8:07 pm
GLL: You are fighting the wrong person here. you are punching the tarbaby.
Good little liberal
May 26th, 2011
8:08 pm
Doggone/GA
In my kingdom, the goal would be fewer abortions. The instances you listed make up a very small part of the abortions performed.
Thulsa Doom
May 26th, 2011
8:09 pm
Kamchak,
I see you’re doing the tick, tick, tick again.
I seem to remember you doing that at least twice over the months and shorty thereafter Jay gave me a warning. I can only surmise that you didn’t like what I said so you went and emailed Jay rather than addressing me like a man would.
You musta been all upset last night when Jay only gave me a warning and didn’t ban me. Not that it would work anyway since I have other computers with different IP addresses as well as other email addresses. I would just be right back on under a different handle. But you can dream can’t you?
Go ahead with your tick,tick,tick. I didn’t write anything above that was offensive to anyone and Jay will see that.
Fred
May 26th, 2011
8:09 pm
“I’m not following your argument. Are you saying that Gay men want to be owned by another man and civil unions don’t do that?”
LOl ok now, THAT was funny. I don’t care who you are.
Good little liberal
May 26th, 2011
8:09 pm
josef nix
I’m not following your argument. Are you saying that Gay men want to be owned by another man and civil unions don’t do that?
Doggone/GA
May 26th, 2011
8:11 pm
“I find it interesting that so many people think I would want to force women to do anything”
Try investigating your own assumptions:
if you would not force a woman to carry a pregnancy to term, you DO support a woman’s right to choose
if you would “teach” us to respect what YOU term a “human” life, what will you do about those who reject your teaching? Refer back to my question about forcing a woman to carry her pregnancy for the answer.
If you would outlaw abortions, then – like it or not – you STILL support a woman’s right to choose, but you reserve to yourself the judging of that action and the determination that the woman (and the doctor?) deserve to be punished for making a decision of which you disapprove.
I hate to break it to you, but there has NEVER been a time when there were no abortions EVER. Abortion has existed as long as pregnancy has existed.
Here’s my challenge to you: when you can PROVE to me that no spontaneous abortions EVER occur…I’ll join you on your abortion barricade.
josef nix
May 26th, 2011
8:11 pm
FRED
I’m pretty much in your corner on the abortion issue…Tar Baby…
Reconstructionist, Reform and more and more Conservative Jews recognize gay marriage under Jewish law so we could do the whole shmeer if we chose. Most of our friends aren’t Jewish and, not to be unkind, but wouldn’t know how to behave! So now wedding in store for us…
Doggone/GA
May 26th, 2011
8:14 pm
I’ve been really patient…but I am finally getting FRIGGING TIRED of typing a long response and then losing it because of a connection error and poof it’s GONE. It’s finally getting to be a pain in the ASS.
Fred
May 26th, 2011
8:15 pm
What’s a spontaneous abortion Doggone?
Doggone/GA
May 26th, 2011
8:15 pm
“but it seems to me the purpose of an abortion is to rid ones self of the baby”
Nope. It’s to rid the woman’s body of a foetus. That’s why spontaneous abortions also exist: to rid the body of a pregnancy. I will not support the outlawing of human induced abortions as long as natural, spontaneous abortions exist and occur.
You let me know when THEY stop, and I’ll join your campaign against human induced abortions.
Thulsa Doom
May 26th, 2011
8:16 pm
osef nix
May 26th, 2011
8:04 pm
THULSA
Relative to your post to Jay…I don’t have a lot to say on this health care hooplah…I’m not going to get what I want in this lifetime, so I don’t even go there…
Josef Nix,
Au contraire, You’ll get a lot more out of the system then my generation will before it completely collapses. Seems to me that all they’re doing now is kicking the can down the road to avoid confronting the inevitable. And I say that about both parties- not just the Dems.
The other problem is one of truth. Everyday Americans seniors included say they want fiscal sanity restored, the books balanced, etc. The reality is that none of these people want to know the truth- that we are all going to have to take cuts in benefits, higher taxes, etc. if we want to meet the obligations of both medicare and SS. And those obligations will necessarily mean less benefits. But people don’t want to hear that bit.
Fred
May 26th, 2011
8:16 pm
I feel your pain Doggone. I’m about tired of the way the blogs acting myself. They obviously changed SOMETHING and it SUCKS.
Is Paul Cox STILL in charge of the blogs?
Brosephus
May 26th, 2011
8:17 pm
What’s a spontaneous abortion
Miscarriage….
josef nix
May 26th, 2011
8:18 pm
FRED, GLL
There’s that out of sequence posting again! Got the review before the performance!
Aw, GLL, why would I be owned by him and him not by me? Are you still stuck on that who plays what role thingie…
md
May 26th, 2011
8:18 pm
Alright, little johnny gets a face one has to look into before snuffing him out………………..
Fred
May 26th, 2011
8:18 pm
Jonix: Ok then. Let’s do lunch instead lol.
Good little liberal
May 26th, 2011
8:18 pm
Brosephus
First, I’m talking about my kingdom.
Second, I believe if the importance of human life was stressed in those courses they would be easier for many to accept.
Bottom line is that I think we should have much fewer abortions. I think that what we saw here tonight is a huge part of the problem.
Changing definitions so people feel better about killing an unborn child? That’s how people have watched their fellow humans being slaughtered since the beginning of time.
When people are dehumanized, the first step is ALWAYS the changing of definitions
He’s not a person, he’s a slave.
He’s not a person, he;s the Jewish problem.
He’s an enemy of the state.
When I see so many people trying so hard to change the definition of an unborn child, it is chilling.
Hillbilly D
May 26th, 2011
8:20 pm
Brochepus @ 7:54
You’re right. Must be going daft in my ol’ age.